Document DMv9RK7NbkwLJ7Dex2gz9VoYM

IN THE CIRCUIT COURT THIRD JUDICIAL CIRCUIT MADISON COUNTY, ILLINOIS WANDA DUNCAN, Individually ) and as Special ) Administrator of the Estate ) of ANDREW DUNCAN, Deceased, ) Plaintiffs, ) ) vs Case No.06-L-355 THE SHERWIN-WILLIAMS COMPANY, et al., Defendants. ) ) ) ) THE VIDEOTAPED DISCOVERY DEPOSITION OF ELIZABETH A. GILBERT WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 24, 2007 The videotaped discovery deposition of ELIZABETH A. GILBERT, called by the Plaintiffs for examination pursuant to the Ohio Rules of Civil Procedure, taken before me, the undersigned, Christina A. Raymond, a Court Reporter and Notary Public within and for the State of Ohio, taken at the offices of Gallagher, Sharp, The Bulkley Building, 6th Floor, 1501 Euclid Avenue, Cleveland, Ohio, commencing at 12:01 p.m., the day and date above set forth. POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 ELIZABETH A. GILBERT DEPOSITION INDEX Page 2 EXAMINATION BY: MR. KOHLBURN PAGE NO. ............................................................. 9 POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 APPEARANCES: On behalf of the Plaintiffs: William A. Kohlburn, Esq. Simmons Cooper, L.L.C. 707 Berkshire Boulevard P.O. Box 521 East Alton, Illinois 62024 (618)259-2222 Page 3 On behalf of the Defendant, Kelly Moore Paint Company: (Via telephone) Lawrence S. Denk, Esq. Foley & Mansfield, P.L.L.P. 1001 Highlands Plaza Drive West, 400 St. Louis, Missouri (314)645-7788 63110 Suite On behalf of the Defendants, Cooper Industries, Inc., J.C. Whitney & Company and KCG, Inc.: (Via telephone) Mara E. Cohen, Esq. Gunty & McCarthy 150 South Wacker Drive, Suite Chicago, Illinois 60606 1025 (312)541-0022 POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 APPEARANCES(CONTINUED): On behalf of the Defendant, The Sherwin-Williams Company: Jack N. Sibley, Esq. Hawkins & Parnell, L.L.P. 4000 Suntrust Plaza 303 Peachtree Street, N.E. Atlanta, Georgia 30308 (404)614-7400 Page 4 On behalf of the Defendants, Riley Stoker Corporation, McKesson Corporation and CertainTeed Corporation: (Via telephone) Matthew J. Morris Heyl, Royster, Voelker & Allen Mark Twain Plaza II, Suite 100 103 West Vandalia Street P.O. Box 467 Edwardsville, Illinois 62025 (618)656-4646 On behalf of the Defendant, The Sherwin-Williams Company: William D. Serritella, Esq. McGuire Woods, L.L.P. 77 West Wacker Drive, Suite 4100 Chicago, Illinois 60601 (312)849-8100 POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 APPEARANCES(CONTINUED): Page 5 On behalf of the Defendants, John Crane and Cleaver-Brooks: (Via telephone) Jackie Miller, Esq. O'Connell, Tivin, Miller 645 Tollgate Road, Suite Elgin, Illinois 60123 (847)741-4603 & Burns, 220 L.L.C. On behalf of the Defendant, Kaiser Gypsum: (Via telephone) David Shaw Rasmussen, Willis, Dickey & Moore, L.L.C. 9200 Ward Parkway, Suite 310 Kansas City, Missouri 64114 (816)960-1611 On behalf of the Defendants, Continental Teves, Inc. and Cooper Electric Supply Company: (Via telephone) Timothy A. McGuire, Esq. Reeg & Nowogrocki, L.L.C. 120 South Central Avenue, Suite St. Louis, Missouri 63105 (314)446-3350 750 POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 APPEARANCES(CONTINUED): Page 6 On behalf of the Defendant, Foster Wheeler Energy Corporation: (Via telephone) Karen Rheingans Segal, McCambridge, Singer & Mahoney 330 North Wabash One IBM Plaza, Suite 200 Chicago, Illinois 60611 (312)645-7800 On behalf of the Defendant, Sterling Fluid Systems(USA), L.L.C.: (Via telephone) John J. O'Sullivan, Esq. Swanson, Martin & Bell, L.L.P. One IBM Plaza, Suite 3300 330 North Wabash Chicago, Illinois 60611 (312)321-9100 ALSO PRESENT: Riley Truitt, Videographer POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 7 1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the 2 videotaped discovery deposition of Elizabeth 3 Gilbert. Today's date is January 24th, 2007, 4 and the time is 12:01 p.m. This is the case 5 of Wanda Duncan, et al. versus The 6 Sherwin-Williams Company, et al. The case 7 number is 06-L-355 in the Third Judicial 8 Circuit Court of Madison County, Illinois. 9 My name is Riley Truitt. I'm a 10 videographer representing Pohlman Reporting 11 Company located on 211 North Broadway, St. 12 Louis, Missouri. All counsel will be 13 reflected on the stenographic record. Will 14 the court reporter please swear in the 15 witness? 16 ELIZABETH A. GILBERT 17 of lawful age, called by the Plaintiffs for 18 examination, pursuant to the Ohio Rules of Civil 19 Procedure, having been first duly sworn, as 20 hereinafter certified, was examined and testified 21 as follows: 22 MR. SERRITELLA: Just one 23 moment. You know, Bill, we are producing her 24 for both Enright and Duncan. That was - 25 MR. KOHLBURN: Yeah, and I POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 8 1 think we had indicated it was too short of 2 notice for Enright. So how about if the 3 record just reflects that we disagree on 4 that? 5 MR. SERRITELLA: All right. I 6 hadn't seen your - 7 MR. KOHLBURN: I know that 8 you had -- I think you talked to Ted about 9 that, and I believe he had indicated -- at 10 least he told me he was going to indicate 11 that that was too short of notice for 12 Enright. 13 MR. SERRITELLA: I did not 14 receive any indication. I'm not saying 15 someone else didn't, but I have not received 16 any notification. 17 MR. KOHLBURN: Okay. 18 MR. SERRITELLA: Okay. 19 MR. KOHLBURN: So the record 20 reflects what you and I both understand about 21 what went on. 22 MR. SERRITELLA: The record 23 reflects that we have tendered her for both 24 Enright and Duncan, and you are objecting to 25 the tender on Enright because you say the POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 notice was too short. 2 MR. KOHLBURN: Very good. 3 MR. SERRITELLA: And that's my 4 understanding of where we're at at this 5 moment. 6 MR. KOHLBURN: Okay. 7 8 EXAMINATION OF ELIZABETH A. GILBERT 9 BY MR. KOHLBURN: 10 Q Would you state your name for the record, 11 please? 12 A Elizabeth Agnes Gilbert. 13 Q And are you currently employed ? 14 A Yes. 15 Q And by whom? 16 A The Sherwin-Williams Company. 17 Q And what is your position? 18 A I'm the director of corporate regulatory 19 affairs. 20 Q And how long have you held that particular 21 position? 22 A Since July of 2000. 23 Q And how long have you been with The 24 Sherwin-Williams Company? 25 A Since August of 1995. Page 9 POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 Q And you've been offered today as a Page 10 2 representative witness for Sherwin-Williams; 3 is that correct? 4 A Yes. 5 Q And according to the disclosure I looked at, 6 one of the areas you're prepared to testify 7 about is the corporate history of 8 Sherwin-Williams, correct? 9 A Yes. 10 Q And you're also prepared to testify about 11 some of the products that were manufactured 12 and sold by Sherwin-Williams; is that 13 correct? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Now, is that products they both made and sold 16 or do you also have knowledge about the 17 products that they sold but did not make? 18 A I have both, products that were made and 19 products that were sold. 20 Q And you're also prepared to testify as to 21 Sherwin-Williams' knowledge of asbestos 22 exposures and safety issues, correct? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Now, according to your understanding, are 25 there any other areas that you are prepared POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 to testify on today as a corporate Page 11 2 representative of Sherwin-Williams? 3 A Well, I was asked to be the most 4 knowledgable. So if you have questions that 5 I can answer about any other areas, I'll try 6 to answer them for you. 7 Q Okay. Fair enough. Now, given that you 8 started with The Sherwin-Williams Company in 9 1995, do you have direct, personal knowledge 10 as to these areas we've gone over with 11 respect to Sherwin-Williams prior to that 12 date? 13 A I have the knowledge that I've gained by 14 review of documents, history of speaking with 15 the man that I used to report to, who now 16 works for me, who was around during that 17 time, other information that's been gathered. 18 Q And so basically just to clarify, you don't 19 have direct, personal knowledge, correct? 20 A No, I do not have direct, personal knowledge. 21 Q But you've undertaken to inform and educate 22 yourself as to events that occurred prior to 23 1995, correct? 24 A Yes, I have. 25 Q And I think you've given us a general outline POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 12 1 of what you did. If we could be a little bit 2 more specific, you indicated you reviewed 3 documents, correct? 4 A Uh-huh, I have reviewed documents. I've 5 spoken with our attorneys here, my attorneys, 6 for that, looked at some of the history of 7 claims that were in the legal department and 8 some of the interviews with employees. I 9 have looked at old books and literature that 10 has been collected and spoken mainly with 11 Dwight Cohagan. 12 Q And when you indicated that you spoke with 13 the person who you used to report to, who now 14 reports to you -15 A Yes. 16 Q -- is that Mr. Cohagan you were referring to? 17 A That's Mr. Cohagan, yes. 18 Q And did you personally conduct any kind of an 19 investigation or make any decisions as to 20 what you were going to review or was that 21 provided to you? 22 A It was provided to me. 23 Q And by whom? 24 A By our attorneys and Mr. Cohagan. 25 Q And when was this provided to you? POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 A Within the past six months. 2 Q Prior to today have you ever given a 3 deposition? Page 13 4 A Yes. 5 Q And on how many occasions? 6 A I believe six for The Sherwin-Williams 7 Company. 8 Q And what's the earliest occasion you gave a 9 deposition for The Sherwin-Williams Company? 10 A I don't know the exact date. It's been since 11 I was director. 12 Q Just an approximation is fine. 13 A Maybe 2001, 2002. 14 Q And was that an asbestos-related case? 15 A No. 16 Q Of the six prior depositions that you've 17 indicated you've given for Sherwin-Williams, 18 have any of those been in asbestos-related 19 cases? 20 A No, they have not. 21 Q So this is the first occasion you testified 22 for asbestos? 23 A Yes. 24 Q And about how much time did you spend 25 reviewing the documents that were provided to POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 you, your best estimate? Page 14 2 A I've been reviewing the documents for the 3 past six months and been working with 4 Mr. Cohagan and discussing products and 5 formulations since I was first hired. 6 Q And other than Mr. Cohagan and your 7 attorneys, did you speak with anyone else who 8 had knowledge of events prior to 1995? 9 A No, I have not. 10 Q You indicated that you had reviewed some 11 notes of interviews with employees; is that 12 correct? 13 A Yes. 14 Q And I've been provided with a couple of 15 volumes of documents that you've looked at. 16 Do you know whether or not the employee 17 interview notes are contained in there? 18 A I don't know for sure, but I -- I'd have to 19 find out for you. 20 Q And as you sit here right now, can you recall 21 the identity of any of these employees whose 22 interviews you reviewed notes of? 23 A No, I can't. I'm sorry. 24 Q Do you know who at Sherwin-Williams was 25 responsible for gathering the information POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 that you reviewed? Page 15 2 A I believe it was -- one of our paralegals put 3 it together, but I think that call went out 4 to get all the information from several 5 different people. But I don't know who 6 exactly put it together. 7 Q Let's go ahead then and just go over your 8 general education and employment history 9 starting with when you graduated from high 10 school. If you can just give me your college 11 education experience? 12 A I have a bachelor's degree in biology from 13 the University of Akron. And I did the 14 coursework and thesis work for my master's 15 degree but never defended it, and that was 16 also at the University of Akron. 17 Q And what year did you get your bachelor's 18 degree? 19 A 1982. 20 Q And after you got your bachelor's degree did 21 you immediately begin working on your 22 master's? 23 A Yes. 24 Q And were you also employed at that time? 25 A No, I was a graduate assistant at the POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 University of Akron. Page 16 2 Q And for how long were you a graduate 3 assistant at the University of Akron? 4 A Two years. 5 Q And that takes us up to about 1984. And did 6 you get into the work force in 1984? 7 A Yes. 8 Q And for whom did you go to work in 1984? 9 A For about 18 months I worked for Case Western 10 Reserve University. 11 Q And what position did you hold with Case 12 Western? 13 A I was a research assistant. 14 Q And after you were a research assistant at 15 Case Western University, where did you go? 16 A The City of Orrville Power Plant. 17 Q And could you spell that, please? 18 A O R R V I L L E. 19 Q And how long were you there? 20 A Five years. 21 Q And what was your position with the City of 22 Orrville Power Plant? 23 A I was a chemist. 24 Q And if you could just briefly describe what 25 your duties as a chemist for the City of POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 Orrville Power Plant were? Page 17 2 A I was responsible for water treatment of the 3 boilers. I did waste. I was responsible for 4 their -- we had a very small plant that 5 accumulated the fly ash and bulked it and 6 shipped it out. I did ordering of coal, air 7 permitting, water permitting and submissions. 8 Q That takes us up to I think about '91, '92? 9 A About 1990, '85 to '90. 10 Q And where did you go to work in 1990? 11 A It was GenCorp Polymer Products. 12 Q And what did you do at GenCorp Polymer 13 Products? 14 A I was a safety and environmental engineer. 15 That was my title. 16 Q And what were your responsibilities as a 17 safety and environmental engineer with 18 GenCorp? 19 A I did employee safety meetings, industrial 20 hygiene monitoring for the individual raw 21 materials that were used there, 22 transportation, wrote some labels and MSDSs 23 for products that were produced by the pilot 24 plant. 25 Q And when you're talking about labels, you're POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 referring to warning labels? 2 A They were labels that were applied to 3 products, yes. 4 Q And do you have any certifications or 5 anything of that nature in the area of 6 industrial hygiene or -- Page 18 7 A No, I do not. 8 Q In health and safety or anything of that 9 nature? 10 A No, I do not. 11 Q Other than the bachelor's degree and the 12 partly completed work on the master's degree, 13 do you have any certifications, diplomas, in 14 any area? 15 A No. 16 Q Have you ever testified at a trial before? 17 A No. 18 Q Are you familiar with an entity known as 19 Deshler Products, D E S H L E R? 20 A Yes. 21 Q And how are you familiar with Deshler? 22 A I have looked at some of the labels from 23 Deshler and some of the products. 24 Q And is that an entity that was at one time 25 acquired by Sherwin-Williams? POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 A I don't recall exactly. Page 19 2 Q Do you have any knowledge or information, as 3 you sit here today, concerning the 4 relationship between Deshler and 5 Sherwin-Williams? 6 A No, I don't have any. 7 Q Would you have an estimate as to when that 8 relationship began? 9 A Not for dates, no. 10 Q And even if not a specific date, a decade? 11 A No, I'm sorry. I don't. 12 Q Are you familiar with any products associated 13 with the Deshler Company or with Deshler? 14 A I have looked at product labels, but I can't 15 name you names. 16 Q And do you recall, from looking at any of 17 those product labels, whether or not any of 18 those products contained asbestos? 19 A No, I would have to look at the labels again. 20 Q Do you recall what time frame those labels 21 were from? 22 A No, I do not. 23 Q And do you know whether or not the labels are 24 reflected in the documents that we've been 25 provided here? POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 A I believe they are. Page 20 2 Q And other than the labels that you indicated 3 that you've seen, have you taken any other 4 steps to investigate the history of Deshler 5 as it relates to Sherwin-Williams? 6 A No, I have not. 7 Q Are you familiar with a company called or an 8 entity called Hadley Adhesives? 9 A I have seen labels from Hadley. 10 Q Beyond seeing labels, is there anything you 11 can tell me about Hadley Adhesives and its 12 relationship with Sherwin-Williams? 13 A No. 14 Q Do you know whether or not Hadley Adhesives 15 ever made or sold asbestos-containing 16 products? 17 A I would have to look at the labels again. 18 Q And do you know whether Hadley Adhesives ever 19 had an industrial hygienist or a medical 20 director? 21 A That I do not know. 22 Q Do you have any knowledge or information as 23 to trade associations that Hadley Adhesives 24 may have belonged to? 25 A I do not know that. POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 Q Other than the labels, are there any other 2 materials or people that you've talked to Page 21 3 relating to Hadley Adhesives? 4 A No. 5 Q Are you familiar with an entity called Pratt 6 and Lambert? 7 A Yes. 8 Q And what do you know about Pratt and Lambert 9 and its relationship with Sherwin-Williams? 10 A Pratt and Lambert was one of the companies 11 that was acquired by The Sherwin-Williams 12 Company. 13 Q Do you know approximately when 14 Sherwin-Williams acquired Pratt and Lambert? 15 A No, I'd have to look back through notes. 16 Q Do you know the nature of the transaction by 17 which Pratt and Lambert was acquired, whether 18 it was an asset purchase or a merger? 19 A No, I do not know that. 20 Q Do you know whether or not Pratt and Lambert 21 at any time made or sold asbestos-containing 22 products? 23 A No, I'd have to go back and review. 24 Q And do you know whether or not Pratt and 25 Lambert ever had an industrial hygiene POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 department? Page 22 2 A No, I do not know that. 3 Q Or whether Pratt and Lambert ever had a 4 medical director? 5 A No, I do not know that. 6 Q Do you have any knowledge or information as 7 to any trade associations that Pratt and 8 Lambert may have belonged to? 9 A I believe Pratt and Lambert belonged to the 10 National Paint & Coatings Association. 11 Q And as you sit here today, can you recall in 12 general what materials, documents, you 13 reviewed that relate to Pratt and Lambert? 14 A I believe they were labels. That's it. 15 Q Is that it? 16 A Uh-huh. 17 Q I don't want to cut you off. Are you 18 familiar with an entity called Martin Senour, 19 S E N O U R? 20 A Yes. 21 Q And what do you know about Martin Senour? 22 A They were a company acquired by The 23 Sherwin-Williams Company. 24 Q And do you have any information as to 25 approximately when Martin Senour was acquired POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 by Sherwin-Williams? Page 23 2 A No, I don't know the year. 3 Q And do you have any knowledge or information 4 concerning the type of transaction by which 5 Martin Senour was acquired? 6 A No, I do not know. 7 Q Do you have any knowledge or information as 8 to the type of products that Martin Senour 9 made or sold at any point in time? 10 A I know they sold paint. 11 Q Do you know what type of paint they may have 12 sold? 13 A No, I'd have to go back and review. 14 Q And do you know whether or not Martin Senour 15 ever made or sold any products that contained 16 asbestos? 17 A I don't recall. 18 Q And do you have any knowledge or information 19 concerning whether or not Martin Senour ever 20 had an industrial hygiene department or a 21 medical director? 22 A I don't know that. 23 Q Do you have any knowledge or information 24 concerning Martin Senour's trade associations 25 that they may have belonged to? POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 A No. 2 Q Do you have any knowledge or information 3 concerning any relationship between Martin Page 24 4 Senour and NAPA? 5 A No, I do not know. 6 Q Are you familiar with an entity called Acme 7 Quality Paints? 8 A Only that I know it was paint. 9 Q And do you know whether or not that is an 10 entity that Sherwin-Williams acquired at some 11 point in time? 12 A I believe so, but I'd have to go back and 13 look. 14 Q And would you have any idea of when that was 15 acquired, assuming it was, or the nature of 16 the transaction? 17 A No, I don't know the year. 18 Q Other than knowing that it was possibly 19 acquired by Sherwin-Williams and that they 20 made paints, do you have any other knowledge 21 or information at all concerning Acme Quality 22 Paints? 23 A No. 24 Q Are you familiar with an entity by the name 25 of Lowe Brothers, Inc.? POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 A No. Page 25 2 Q Are you familiar with an entity -- well, 3 strike that. 4 I assume then you wouldn't have any 5 knowledge or information as to whether or not 6 Sherwin-Williams ever acquired that 7 particular entity? 8 A No. 9 Q Are you familiar with an entity by the name 10 of the John Lucas Company? 11 A No, I'm not. 12 Q And, therefore, I assume you wouldn't know 13 whether or not Sherwin-Williams ever acquired 14 that entity? 15 A No, I would not. 16 Q Are you familiar with an entity known as the 17 Rogers Paint Company? 18 A No, I am not. 19 Q And, therefore, I assume you wouldn't have 20 any knowledge or information as to whether or 21 not Sherwin-Williams ever acquired that 22 company? 23 A No, I would not. 24 Q To your knowledge, is there any relationship 25 between Sherwin-Williams and the W.M. Barr & POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 Company? Page 26 2 A The only relationship I know is that they 3 have purchased containers or had them fill 4 certain products, and that's since I've been 5 here. 6 Q What types of products would they have them 7 fill? 8 A I believe they were solvents. 9 Q And when you say had them fill certain types 10 of products, what does that mean? 11 A The products were actually filled at theirs 12 under a Sherwin-Williams-owned brand. 13 Q So basically they filled the products, and 14 they were sold under the Sherwin-Williams 15 name? 16 A Under the Sherwin-Williams name or another 17 brand of The Sherwin-Williams Company. 18 Q How many brands does The Sherwin-Williams 19 Company have that you're familiar with? 20 A Many brands. I don't know exactly how many 21 brands they have. 22 Q If I asked you to just tick off all the ones 23 that you know? 24 A I'd have to go back. There's Duron, Pratt 25 and Lambert. I'm drawing a blank. I'd have POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 to go back and look at a list. Page 27 2 Q To your knowledge, is there or has there ever 3 been any relationship between 4 Sherwin-Williams and PPG? 5 A Not that I'm aware of. 6 Q Has Sherwin-Williams always been incorporated 7 in the State of Ohio? 8 A I believe so. 9 Q And has it always been headquartered here in 10 Cleveland? 11 A Yes. 12 Q And what's the earliest time that 13 Sherwin-Williams had a facility outside the 14 State of Ohio? 15 A I don't know the exact year the first 16 facility was outside. 17 Q Approximately? 18 A No, I'm sorry. 19 Q Do you have any idea of where the first 20 facility outside of the State of Ohio may 21 have been located? 22 A No. 23 Q At any point throughout its history has The 24 Sherwin-Williams Company ever been divided up 25 into divisions or product areas or anything POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 28 1 of that nature for organizational purposes? 2 A Yes. 3 Q And can you tell me when that first came 4 about and what those divisions were, to your 5 knowledge? 6 A No, I can't tell you when it first came 7 about. 8 Q Can you tell me what the earliest point in 9 time you're familiar with it being divided up 10 in any way is? 11 A When I first got here it was divided into 12 several divisions. There was the stores 13 group, diversified brands and consumer 14 division. 15 Q And what is the stores group? 16 A It's a -- it encompasses all of the stores 17 under the Sherwin-Williams name. 18 Q And the next one was the -- what did you tell 19 me? 20 A Diversified brands. 21 Q And what is diversified brands? 22 A Namely aerosols. 23 Q And what is the consumer products group? 24 A Consumer division. 25 Q Consumer division? POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 A It was other customer products, not Page 29 2 Sherwin-Williams branded. 3 Q And do any of these encompass its main 4 manufacturing and sales of paint or are these 5 sort of collateral divisions? 6 A I don't think I know what you mean. 7 Q Well, you sort of indicated stores and then 8 aerosols and then things that aren't sold 9 under the Sherwin-Williams name. I assume 10 they make and sell paint and sell that under 11 their name, and that doesn't seem to be 12 covered by what you've given me. 13 A Well, the consumer division also makes paint 14 for the stores to sell. 15 Q Does Sherwin-Williams currently have an 16 industrial hygiene department? 17 A They have an occupational health department 18 that has certified industrial hygienists. 19 Q And how long have they had an occupational 20 health department? 21 A We have had occupational health since I have 22 been here that's been formally called that. 23 We have had industrial hygienists employed by 24 The Sherwin-Williams Company since the early 25 70s, 1974. POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 30 1 Q Prior to the 1970s, did Sherwin-Williams have 2 any version of an occupational health 3 department? 4 A I don't believe there was a formal 5 occupational health department. 6 Q Did they have an informal type of 7 occupational health department? 8 A There was safety. 9 Q And so prior to 1972, '73, any issues of 10 occupational health would have been handled 11 by the safety department; is that correct? 12 A It would have been handled by the corporate 13 group for safety. 14 Q Does Sherwin-Williams currently have a 15 medical director? 16 A No, they do not. 17 Q To your knowledge, has Sherwin-Williams ever 18 had a medical director? 19 A Yes, I believe they did have a medical 20 director. 21 Q Do you know for what period of time 22 Sherwin-Williams had a medical director? 23 A No, I do not recall the dates. 24 Q Do you have any idea of when Sherwin-Williams 25 ceased having a medical director? POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 A No, I don't remember the date. 2 Q Do you know whether the functions that a 3 medical director would perform are now Page 31 4 carried out under some different department 5 or different auspices? 6 A No, the occupational health department 7 carries out the medical monitoring and 8 industrial hygiene and the focus for the 9 employees for the company now. 10 Q Does the occupational health department 11 employ any medical doctors? 12 A No, they do not. There is one that's a 13 consultant. 14 Q Does Sherwin-Williams currently have any 15 division or area or department that is 16 devoted to product safety? 17 A My group in regulatory affairs is devoted to 18 product compliance. 19 Q And what does product compliance entail? 20 A It's the compliance of the product with all 21 federal, state and local laws regarding 22 labeling and warning. 23 Q And how long has that department or area 24 existed? 25 A I believe product compliance has been back to POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 the 70s. Page 32 2 Q Is this something that was created in 3 response to OSHA and other regulatory bodies 4 that came into being in the 1970s? 5 A I don't know. I don't know why it was 6 officially created. 7 Q To your knowledge, prior to the 1970s, did 8 Sherwin-Williams have any department that was 9 devoted to consumer product safety? 10 A Their corporate safety group was in charge of 11 that. 12 Q So, and just to clarify and make sure I 13 understand, prior to the 1970s the safety 14 department at Sherwin-Williams was 15 responsible not only for safety issues in the 16 plant but also for occupational health issues 17 and also for consumer product safety issues; 18 is that correct? 19 A I believe so. 20 Q Do you know how long Sherwin-Williams had a 21 safety department? 22 A No, I do not. 23 Q Is there a point in time when you can say I 24 know that they had it at least by this time, 25 even if you don't know entirely how far back POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 it goes? Page 33 2 A I know that there was a safety department 3 from documents I've seen from the 70s, but I 4 don't know how far back. 5 Q Do you know if that would have existed in the 6 60s? 7 A I don't know what it was formally called in 8 the 60s. 9 Q Regardless of what it may have been called, 10 was there a group within Sherwin-Williams 11 that performed that function during the 60s? 12 A Yes. I have seen documents where they 13 discussed those issues, but I don't know what 14 the group was formally called. 15 Q And which of those issues did you see 16 discussed since we talked about both 17 occupational health, occupational safety and 18 consumer product safety? 19 A All of those issues. 20 Q And as you sit here today, can you recall the 21 names of anyone from those documents in the 22 60s who would have been affiliated with the 23 group that was discussing or handling these 24 particular issues? 25 A No, I'd have to go back and review the POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 documents. 2 Q To your knowledge, at any point in its 3 history has Sherwin-Williams undertaken any 4 sort of major restructuring or 5 reorganization? Page 34 6 A They have reorganized and restructured over 7 the years, but I don't know dates. 8 Q What do you know about the reorganizing and 9 restructuring? 10 A They have reorganized divisions and combined 11 like an aerosol division and renamed a 12 division. 13 Q Does Sherwin-Williams currently have any 14 subsidiaries? 15 A I believe so, yes. 16 Q Can you identify those for me? 17 A No. I would have to go back and look at -18 Q Does Sherwin-Williams have a parent 19 corporation? 20 A No, I don't think so. 21 Q To your knowledge, has Sherwin-Williams ever 22 had a parent corporation? 23 A Not that I'm aware of. 24 Q Other than the ones that we went through 25 before, are you aware of any other entities POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 35 1 that have been acquired by Sherwin-Williams 2 at any point in time? 3 A There have been several acquisitions since I 4 was hired including the Thompson Minwax 5 Company, Con-Lux, Accurate Dispersions. 6 Q Any others that you recall? 7 A The most recent one was Dobco. 8 Q And do you know if those were acquired by 9 asset purchase, by merger or whether those 10 remain as subsidiary entities? 11 A That I do not know. 12 Q And I think you've already answered this, but 13 I just want to clarify it. Has 14 Sherwin-Williams ever sold products under 15 names other than Sherwin-Williams? 16 A Sherwin-Williams sells products under 17 their -- under other brand names. 18 Q And let me clarify that. I'm referring to 19 products that would be manufactured by 20 Sherwin-Williams. 21 A Yes. 22 Q And to your knowledge, when did 23 Sherwin-Williams first manufacture a product 24 that contained asbestos? 25 A I believe there were about two products in POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 the 60s, before the 60s. Page 36 2 Q Before the 60s? 3 A Somewhere in the 50s and 60s there were about 4 two products, two or three products. 5 Q And do you know what those products were? 6 A No, I don't know their names. 7 Q Do you know the last occasion on which 8 Sherwin-Williams manufactured a product that 9 contained asbestos? 10 A Sherwin-Williams stopped manufacturing 11 asbestos products in 1980. 12 Q And from the time of the 1950s and 60s when 13 they started first manufacturing any asbestos 14 product to the 80s when they stopped, during 15 that time frame were they continuously 16 manufacturing at least some product that 17 contained asbestos? 18 A There was a period of time where there was 19 manufacturing of products, yes, through the 20 70s. 21 Q And without regard to which ones may have 22 been manufactured back in the 50s and 60s, as 23 you sit here today are you aware of any of 24 the asbestos-containing products manufactured 25 by Sherwin-Williams? POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 A What do you mean? I -- what do you mean? Page 37 2 Q You said you couldn't remember the first ones 3 they made back in the 50s or 60s, and I just 4 want to know if you can recall any of the 5 asbestos-containing products that they may 6 have made at any time? 7 A Oh, there were texture paints, asphalt roof 8 coatings, caulks, cement coatings. 9 Q And to your knowledge, did Sherwin-Williams 10 ever put a warning label of any kind on those 11 products, the products that it made that 12 contained asbestos? 13 A Yes. 14 Q And specifically which products did it put a 15 warning on? 16 A A warning went on asbestos products in 1975. 17 Q And is that on all of the asbestos products 18 that were being made as of that time? 19 A I'd have to go back and look at exactly which 20 ones, but I do know the warnings began 21 appearing on products in 1975. 22 Q And do you have any knowledge as to the 23 reasons that those warnings began to appear 24 in 1975? 25 A As the awareness for asbestos increased POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 38 1 beginning in 1972, they started looking at 2 the warnings as they appeared and began 3 placing a warning on them. 4 Q Do you know what those warnings said? 5 A Well, they're available in the books, but it 6 warned of -- that it contained asbestos and 7 for release of fibers for sanding and 8 abrading. 9 Q Do you know whether or not Sherwin-Williams 10 ever tested any of its asbestos-containing 11 products to determine whether or not they 12 posed a health hazard? 13 A Sherwin-Williams did not test any of their 14 products. 15 Q Do you know whether or not Sherwin-Williams 16 had anyone conduct tests on those products 17 for them to determine if they posed any kind 18 of health hazard? 19 A I don't think they did. I know they didn't 20 have anybody else conduct them. 21 Q Did Sherwin-Williams conduct tests on its 22 products for reasons other than to determine 23 whether or not they posed a health hazard? 24 A Not that I'm aware of. 25 Q Now, Sherwin-Williams also sold POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 asbestos-containing products that were Page 39 2 manufactured by others and that were sold 3 under the manufacturer's name, correct? 4 A Yes. 5 Q And one of the products that we're interested 6 in in that regard are joint compounds, 7 correct? 8 A Yes. 9 Q Do you have any knowledge or information as 10 to the earliest occasion on which 11 Sherwin-Williams sold an asbestos-containing 12 joint compound that was made by another and 13 sold under the manufacturer's name? 14 A Sherwin-Williams sold joint compounds that 15 were found to contain asbestos later in the 16 60s. 17 Q Let me reask that a different way then. Do 18 you know the earliest occasion on which 19 Sherwin-Williams sold a joint compound that 20 was made by another under that other entity's 21 name, without regard to whether it contained 22 asbestos or not? 23 A I recall as far back as the 60s from looking 24 at documents. 25 Q And when you say the 60s, are you referring POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 to the early 60s, the mid 60s? Page 40 2 A The early 60s, I believe. 3 Q Based upon your review of documents and 4 conversations with Mr. Cohagan, what, as far 5 as you can tell, is the earliest indication 6 that Sherwin-Williams had that asbestos in 7 any circumstances could cause disease? 8 A There are some historical documents that went 9 back to the 40s, 50s. And then there was 10 also an industrial hygiene survey of one of 11 our plants that was done in 1937 that 12 mentioned disease from asbestos. It 13 mentioned asbestosis. 14 Q Do you know which plant was surveyed? 15 A I believe it was a -- it said it was a survey 16 of the Kensington plant. 17 Q And where is the Kensington Plant located? 18 You'll forgive my ignorance on geography. 19 A I would have to look at that survey again. 20 I'm drawing a mental blank. I don't know 21 what occasion -22 Q Do you know what state it's in? 23 A No, I'm just drawing a blank on that one 24 right now. 25 Q That's fine. POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 41 1 A I can see the title. I can't see the state. 2 Q Is that serving in the materials that were 3 provided, as far as you know? 4 A Not yet, as far as I know. 5 MR. SERRITELLA: No, we're 6 going to produce that to you probably by the 7 end of the week. 8 MR. KOHLBURN: Okay. 9 Q And do you recall -- and I don't mean 10 necessarily the name of the individual that 11 did the work. When I say who conducted it, 12 what entity conducted it; was it 13 Sherwin-Williams; was it an outside 14 contractor; was it the government? 15 A No, I'm failing on that. I believe it was -16 it was written and conducted by an M.D., and 17 I don't know who it was under. It was not 18 done by Sherwin-Williams. It was done by 19 someone else. 20 Q Do you know if this was part of a broader 21 survey of different types of plants? 22 A It wasn't different plants. It was a broader 23 survey of industrial hygiene at that 24 facility. 25 Q And I guess I asked a bad question there. POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 42 1 What I was wondering is whether or not as 2 part of this same survey this group or this 3 doctor looked at plants other than a 4 Sherwin-Williams plant; is this part of a big 5 program or just Sherwin-Williams? 6 A No, I believe it was just that one facility. 7 Q What, if anything, did Sherwin-Williams do in 8 response to that survey? 9 A There were some recommendations in the 10 survey, but there was no documentation on 11 what was followed up. 12 Q Can you recall what those recommendations 13 were? 14 A It was to -- related to dusty conditions and 15 providing ventilation and protective 16 equipment. 17 Q And that would be for the employees of 18 Sherwin-Williams working in those plants, 19 correct? 20 A Yes. 21 Q And as you sit here today, you didn't see any 22 information, one way or the other, whether or 23 not those recommendations were followed? 24 A There was just the survey. There was no 25 follow-up documentation from that time POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 period. Page 43 2 Q You also mentioned some historical materials 3 from the 40s and the 50s. Could you 4 elaborate for me on what you have seen from 5 the 40s and 50s that would give some 6 indication that asbestos can cause disease? 7 A I believe those documents are in there. And 8 there was an Ohio code document for safety 9 talking about dusts, and asbestos was 10 mentioned as one of the dusts. 11 Q Anything you recall from the 50s? 12 A I'd have to go back and look at the documents 13 again, but they're in the volumes. 14 Q And I think you may have already partially 15 answered this, but Sherwin-Williams was 16 aware, at least by the 60s, according to what 17 you've told me, that the joint compounds it 18 was selling but not making contained 19 asbestos, correct? 20 MR. SERRITELLA: I'm going to 21 object. That's not her testimony. 22 A No, I said that they sold joint compounds 23 that later were discovered in the 70s to 24 contain asbestos. 25 Q So based on your review of documents it would POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 44 1 be your testimony, as the representative of 2 Sherwin-Williams, that they were unaware that 3 the joint compounds they were selling 4 contained asbestos prior to the 70s? 5 A Yes. 6 Q And is there any specific documentation that 7 you rely upon for that? 8 A There is a memo that is included in the 9 documents where the suppliers were queried as 10 to their joint compounds and if they 11 contained asbestos. And that actual letter 12 to the vendors isn't in there but their 13 response, an internal response, saying that 14 all the vendors had responded and giving how 15 many of the joint compounds contained 16 asbestos. 17 Q And do you recall the date of that memo? 18 A I believe it was July 1975. 19 Q Is that the first occasion that you're aware 20 of on which Sherwin-Williams undertook to 21 investigate the content of the joint 22 compounds that were being sold in its stores? 23 A Yes. 24 Q And do you have any knowledge or information 25 as to whether or not persons employed in POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 management or supervisory positions at Page 45 2 Sherwin-Williams knew, that as a general 3 matter, joint compounds manufactured in the 4 60s contained asbestos? 5 A There's nothing to indicate that anyone had 6 any indication that joint compounds would 7 have asbestos in them. 8 Q Is there anything to affirmatively indicate 9 that Sherwin-Williams was completely unaware 10 that joint compounds contained asbestos in 11 the 1960s? 12 A There's no document that says they are 13 unaware. 14 Q Do you have any knowledge or information as 15 to who or what group would have made the 16 decision to sell joint compounds in 17 Sherwin-Williams' stores? 18 A As far as I know from the history, corporate 19 purchasing prior to 1975 would have 20 recommended approved suppliers, and there 21 were four approved suppliers of joint 22 compounds. 23 Q And do you know who those approved suppliers 24 were? 25 A They were USG, National Gypsum, Bondex and POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 Proco. 2 Q Do you know whether or not Sherwin-Williams 3 at any time ever sold Georgia-Pacific joint 4 compound? Page 46 5 A No, I do not. 6 Q And are you familiar at all with the process 7 by which an entity would become an approved 8 supplier? 9 A I'm not familiar with the process, only that 10 corporate purchasing would have approved 11 certain suppliers. But prior to 1975 the 12 individual stores and district managers could 13 have purchased other -14 Q Do you know how long Sherwin-Williams has had 15 stores that bear the Sherwin-Williams' name? 16 A Since shortly after they were -17 Sherwin-Williams became an entity in the late 18 1800s. 19 Q So they've always had Sherwin-Williams' 20 stores? 21 A There's been Sherwin-Williams' stores, yes. 22 Q And prior to 1975 those stores were organized 23 into some sort of districts or areas? 24 A Stores were organized based on districts with 25 a district manager in charge of them. POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 Q And as of, say, 1955, do you have any idea 2 how many districts there were in the United Page 47 3 States? 4 A No, I do not. 5 Q How about as of 1960? 6 A No. I'm sorry. 7 Q Is there any point in time when you could 8 tell me how many districts there were 9 covering the United States? 10 A No, I don't -- I do not know how many 11 districts there are. 12 Q Even approximately? I mean, is this one 13 where they divided up into like four big 14 districts or 20 smaller ones? 15 A They were geographical locations not bound by 16 states so -- and they have changed. Over 17 time more districts have changed. 18 Q Now, as of 1975 Sherwin-Williams changed 19 their protocols for purchasing these 20 materials, correct? 21 A Everything after that would have been under 22 the direction of The Sherwin-Williams 23 Company. Before 1975 there could have been 24 times where the individual stores or district 25 managers could have purchased things outside POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 of corporate knowing it, but after that Page 48 2 corporate would have been aware of what was 3 purchased. 4 Q And did that apply to all sundry type of 5 products that were being sold in 6 Sherwin-Williams' stores or just joint 7 compounds? 8 A To other products that may have been sold in 9 the stores as well. 10 Q Now, you indicated that prior to 1975 a 11 district manager could purchase outside of 12 corporate knowledge, correct? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Even prior to 1975, did corporate make any 15 recommendations or have any kind of approved 16 lists of vendors but it was just that you 17 didn't have to follow them too closely? 18 A There were approved suppliers, but they were 19 not bound by -- there was no one binding them 20 to just buy from those suppliers. 21 Q And do you know what criteria 22 Sherwin-Williams utilized in order to 23 designate an entity as an approved supplier? 24 A No, I do not know what led to that. 25 Q Any idea of what kind of factors they would POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 look at at all, even if you don't know the 2 whole list? 3 A No, I do not know. 4 Q Did Sherwin-Williams, as far as you know, 5 ever perform any kinds of tests on the 6 products of others that were being sold in Page 49 7 its stores? 8 A No, they did not. 9 Q And was Sherwin-Williams or anyone at 10 Sherwin-Williams, as far as you know, aware 11 of how joint compound was used? 12 A Well, after speaking with Dwight, I'm pretty 13 sure he knew what joint compound was used 14 for. So I'm sure other people must have 15 known what joint compound was for. 16 Q How long did Dwight -- well, strike that. 17 When did Mr. Cohagan first come to 18 work for Sherwin-Williams? 19 A I believe it was in -- it's either 1962 or 20 1965. 21 Q And as far as you know, Mr. Cohagan, from the 22 time he came to Sherwin-Williams, knew 23 basically what joint compound was used for? 24 A Yes. 25 Q And would he have been aware that it was sand POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 50 1 that is part of the process of using it? 2 A Yes. 3 Q And would he have been aware that in sanding 4 it produced dust? 5 A I believe so. 6 Q And to your knowledge, just to clarify, did 7 Sherwin-Williams ever undertake to determine 8 how much dust was produced in sanding or what 9 the content of that dust might be for joint 10 compounds? 11 A Not that I'm aware of. 12 Q Did Sherwin-Williams advertise -- strike 13 that. 14 Are you familiar with the term "sundry 15 product?" 16 A It depends on what you mean. Sundry product 17 usually means associated products to us, 18 products that are also used during the 19 painting process like brushes, rollers, 20 sandpaper, other products that may be used. 21 Q Would that also include the joint compounds? 22 A Yes, uh-huh. 23 Q Did Sherwin-Williams advertise the 24 availability of sundry products in its stores 25 in any way back in the 1960s? POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 A That I am not aware of. I haven't seen any 2 sales or -3 Q And -4 A -- advertisements. 5 Q I'm sorry. And I'm trying not to, you know 6 Page 51 7 A I'm sorry. Yeah, I paused and -8 Q Well, it happens, you know. Even if you 9 don't know whether or not they advertised 10 particular sundry products, do you know 11 whether or not Sherwin-Williams ever 12 advertised the fact that it was a full-line 13 provider or that everything you need is 14 available at our stores or anything of that 15 nature? 16 A I know currently that that is part of their 17 advertisement, but I don't know how far back 18 that may have started. 19 Q You anticipated my next question. And to 20 your knowledge, sundry products, did 21 Sherwin-Williams sell those at a markup over 22 the cost at which they acquired them? 23 A I don't know anything about costs or pricing. 24 Q Do you know whether or not Sherwin-Williams 25 made a profit in the 1960s from selling POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 52 1 sundry items or if they just sold them for 2 what they paid for them? 3 A I've never seen any documentations on the 4 purchase or sale of those types of items. 5 Q Can you identify any person who you're aware 6 of who might have that knowledge? 7 A It would be someone in -- the only name I'm 8 familiar with for purchasing would be Bob 9 Ellis and -10 Q Could you spell that, please? 11 A E L L I S. 12 Q And could you just briefly give me the quick 13 and dirty resume on Mr. Ellis, how long he's 14 been with Sherwin-Williams? 15 A No, I can't do that. I'm sorry. 16 Q Is he still with them? 17 A I believe so, yes. 18 Q How far back do you remember him going; was 19 he there when you got there? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Is he kind of an old-timer or is he sort of a 22 new guy? 23 A That I don't know either. I don't know how 24 long he's been here. 25 Q Do you have any information as to why POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 53 1 Sherwin-Williams sold sundries in its stores? 2 A No. I only know now that it's to assist the 3 consumer in the projects. 4 Q And does Sherwin-Williams derive some benefit 5 from selling sundries in its stores? 6 A I don't know what you mean by benefit but -7 Q Is there a business reason why they do it, in 8 order to attract more customers, because they 9 can get everything there, in order to make a 10 profit on it; from Sherwin-Williams' 11 perspective, why are they selling sundries? 12 A I don't know why Sherwin-Williams puts it in 13 their stores. I assume it's to attract 14 customers who can get all of their project 15 requirements at a certain location. 16 Q And is it correct that it would not be of a 17 benefit to Sherwin-Williams to sell a sundry 18 product that didn't work correctly? 19 MR. SERRITELLA: I'm going to 20 object to that question because I -- do you 21 understand that question? 22 A I'm not sure what you mean. 23 Q For example, if Sherwin-Williams had a joint 24 compound that it was selling in its stores 25 and that joint compound turned to mush and POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 fell off when you put it on the wall, would 2 that be a benefit to Sherwin-Williams? 3 A I don't believe it would be a benefit. 4 Q Do you think that would be a detriment to 5 Sherwin-Williams? Page 54 6 A I don't know why they would sell a product 7 that didn't work. 8 Q And so as far as you know then, some criteria 9 in terms of product quality went into 10 Sherwin-Williams' selection of the sundry 11 products that they would sell in their 12 stores, correct? 13 A I don't know what criteria they put into 14 their -- I'm just assuming that they wouldn't 15 sell products that didn't function in the 16 capacity that they intended to sell them in, 17 but I don't know what their criteria was for 18 stocking associated products or sundries. 19 Q Basically they didn't just sell any old joint 20 compound; they tried to pick a quality 21 product, correct? 22 A I don't have the criteria, so I don't know 23 what their criteria was for choosing those 24 approved suppliers. 25 Q Being in the business, though, you'd agree, POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 would you not, that selling an inferior Page 55 2 quality product at a Sherwin-Williams' store, 3 even with somebody else's name on it, would 4 reflect poorly on Sherwin-Williams, correct? 5 A I believe they would try not to sell inferior 6 quality products if they knew they were 7 inferior quality. 8 Q And I think you've already partially answered 9 this, but I just want to, you know, ask you 10 this specifically. Do you know whether or 11 not they conducted any kind of tests other 12 than health and safety on these products to 13 determine which ones worked better than 14 others, the sundry products? 15 A I'm not aware of any tests they conducted on 16 other people's products. 17 Q Did the sundry products that Sherwin-Williams 18 sold include masks, paper masks? 19 A I'm not aware of other products. I didn't 20 see documentation on other sundry products 21 that were sold at that time. 22 Q Do you know whether Sherwin-Williams sold 23 protective equipment products of any kind of 24 sundries during the 1960s or 1970s? 25 A That I am not aware of. POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 56 1 Q Did the joint compounds that Sherwin-Williams 2 sold at its stores that were made by others, 3 had other people's names on them, other 4 company's names on them, at any time contain 5 any health hazard warnings? 6 A That I'm not aware of. 7 Q Do you know whether or not Sherwin-Williams 8 ever undertook to ascertain or review whether 9 or not these products contained any warnings? 10 A No, they did not. Sherwin-Williams relied on 11 the manufacturer to properly characterize and 12 label their products at the time. 13 Q And they relied entirely on the manufacturer, 14 correct? 15 A Yes. 16 Q To the extent that, as far as you know, 17 Sherwin-Williams did not even check to see 18 whether or not these manufacturers were 19 including warnings or not? 20 MR. SERRITELLA: Did you 21 give -- excuse me. Did you give the time 22 frame on that? Because I didn't hear it if 23 you did. 24 MR. KOHLBURN: At any point 25 in time. We haven't narrowed a time frame POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 down yet. Page 57 2 A No, Sherwin-Williams relies on the 3 manufacturers to properly characterize and 4 label their products based on their knowledge 5 of the formula or -- 6 Q When you say "their knowledge of the 7 formula," you mean the manufacturer's? 8 A The manufacturer's knowledge of the formula 9 and components and -10 Q And just to clarify, so as far as you know at 11 no point in time does Sherwin-Williams ever 12 check to see whether or not products it sells 13 from another are properly labeled? 14 A Not that I'm aware of, no. 15 Q And that would include whether or not they're 16 labeled in compliance with any state, federal 17 or local regulations requiring labels? 18 MR. SERRITELLA: I'm just going 19 to object to the form, because it sort of 20 assumes that Sherwin-Williams even knows what 21 the composition of those products are. You 22 can't know if you're in compliance if you 23 don't know what you're complying with. So 24 I'm going to object to the form. 25 A Sherwin-Williams relied on the manufacturer POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 58 1 to best know their products and to supply a 2 compliant product when it was offered for 3 sale. 4 Q Prior to the 1972, 1973 time frame, are you 5 able to identify for me any precautions that 6 Sherwin-Williams undertook with regard to 7 protecting its employees in Sherwin-Williams' 8 plants from exposure to asbestos, whether it 9 be engineering controls or warnings or 10 education, any precautions of any kind 11 relating to Sherwin-Williams' employees, 12 pre'72, '73? 13 A I have seen documents where Sherwin-Williams 14 had programs in place to protect from dusts. 15 That would have included asbestos at that 16 time, including respirators and ventilation. 17 Q Do you recall the circumstances under which 18 Sherwin-Williams would have provided its 19 employees with respirators? 20 A That would have been after monitoring for 21 dusts and whatever the conditions were for 22 the raw materials that were being used. 23 Q Again, now keeping with the same time frame, 24 prior to 1972, 1973, are you aware of any 25 actions undertaken by Sherwin-Williams to POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 59 1 protect the end users of any product made or 2 sold by Sherwin-Williams from exposure to 3 asbestos? 4 A Can you repeat the question? I'm sorry. 5 Q Again, we're talking prior to the 1972, 1973 6 time frame. 7 A Okay. 8 Q Are you aware of any actions during that time 9 frame undertaken by Sherwin-Williams to 10 protect the end users of any protect made or 11 sold by Sherwin-Williams from exposure to 12 asbestos? 13 MR. SERRITELLA: Again, I'm 14 just going to make an objection to the form, 15 because to the extent, for example, you're 16 talking about joint compound you're assuming 17 Sherwin-Williams is aware of the presence of 18 asbestos, it seems to me. Subject to the 19 form, you can answer. 20 A Would this have been Sherwin-Williams' 21 products or other -22 Q Any product that they sold, whether or not 23 they made it or bought it from somebody else. 24 To your knowledge, prior to '72, '73 did they 25 do anything to warn or otherwise protect POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 60 1 consumers of products they sold from exposure 2 to asbestos? 3 A I'm not aware of that, of specific warnings 4 for that. 5 Q Are you specifically or generally aware of 6 any actions undertaken by Sherwin-Williams 7 prior to '72, '73 to protect consumers of 8 products it sold from exposure to asbestos? 9 A At that time asbestos wasn't specifically 10 regulated, and it was regulated as a nuisance 11 dust. So Sherwin-Williams had products that 12 were paints where the asbestos may have been 13 present. So there would not have been 14 warnings for asbestos on those products at 15 that time. 16 Q And I just want to try to make sure I 17 understand your testimony. You indicated 18 that it wasn't regulated except as a nuisance 19 dust. 20 What is the significance of that in 21 terms of any actions that -22 A Well, it wasn't called out as a specific 23 component to be regulated. It was regulated 24 as other dusts such as talcs or silica, other 25 mineral dusts. POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 Q Are you aware of any actions undertaken by Page 61 2 Sherwin-Williams prior to the 1972, '73 time 3 frame to warn or otherwise protect consumers 4 of products purchased from Sherwin-Williams 5 from nuisance dusts of any variety? 6 A I would have to go back and look at labels 7 for particular products, but I'm not -- that 8 wasn't something that I looked at. 9 Q And just to clarify here, I believe that I 10 already know this, but 1973, this was the 11 first occasion on which Sherwin-Williams 12 employed certified industrial hygienists, 13 correct? 14 A I believe it was '73 or '74. 15 Q And do you know why Sherwin-Williams 16 undertook to employ or hire certified 17 industrial hygienists as of '73, '74? 18 A I don't know the specific reason why they 19 hired their first certified industrial 20 hygienist. 21 Q Do you know whether or not it had anything to 22 do with the advent of more stringent 23 government regulations of the workplace? 24 A I don't know what the criteria was or why 25 they hired them. POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 Q Do you know whether or not certified Page 62 2 industrial hygienists existed as an 3 occupational specialty prior to 1973, '74? 4 A I don't know for sure. I assume it did, 5 because we hired our first industrial 6 hygienist then. 7 Q I guess my question is, there were industrial 8 hygienists, as far as you know, out there for 9 Sherwin-Williams to hire prior to 1973, '74, 10 correct? 11 A I'm making an assumption that there were. 12 Q Do you have any knowledge as to where the 13 facilities are located where Sherwin-Williams 14 has made asbestos-containing products over 15 the years? 16 A There is a list of facilities that's 17 available in there. It started out, I 18 believe, as eight facilities. 19 Q And when you say eight facilities, are these 20 ones where they made asbestos-containing 21 products or where they made any product 22 whatsoever? 23 A Where they made asbestos-containing products. 24 Q And I think you indicated that you didn't 25 know for sure how the divisions were split POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 63 1 up. Do you have any idea as of, say, 1960 2 how many Sherwin-Williams stores there were 3 in the United States? 4 A I don't know how -- no, I do not know how 5 many stores there were in 1960. 6 Q Would you be able to give me even an 7 approximation, like at least a hundred or no 8 more than 50, even a ballpark? As long as 9 it's -10 A I'd be guessing. I would be guessing. 11 I'm -- I don't know the history of when they 12 opened new stores or how many they had. 13 Q Do you know how many they have right now? 14 A I believe it's close to 3,000. 15 Q And I guess you started in 1995. About how 16 many did they have in 1995? 17 A Going back from memory I think it was over 18 2,000, somewhere between 2,000 and 2500 19 stores. 20 Q So they've grown quite a bit in the last -21 A Almost 12 years or so. 22 Q -- ten years or so, ten, 12 years? Even if 23 your knowledge doesn't go back as far as 24 1960, do you have any idea or estimate as to 25 how many stores they may have had in the POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 1970s? Page 64 2 A No, I do not know. There was a time period 3 prior to 1975 where there may have been 4 independent hardware stores with the 5 Sherwin-Williams name on it that may have 6 carried and sold Sherwin-Williams labeled 7 products. But after 1975 only 8 Sherwin-Williams branded stores {sic} were 9 carried in Sherwin-Williams stores. 10 Q So after 1975 Sherwin-Williams brand is only 11 available in a Sherwin-Williams store? 12 A Yes. 13 Q And prior to 1975 there were independent 14 hardware stores that could have called 15 themselves a Sherwin-Williams' store, 16 correct? 17 A They could have had a Sherwin-Williams' sign 18 on the front. They may not have called 19 themselves a Sherwin-Williams' store, but 20 they could have carried -- could have had the 21 logo up and carried Sherwin-Williams' branded 22 products. 23 Q And would there be other outlets for 24 Sherwin-Williams' branded products pre'75; 25 would there be people who just didn't have POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 the sign up but who just had some 2 Sherwin-Williams' product in the back? 3 A There could have been. 4 Q These independent hardware stores prior to 5 1975, did Sherwin-Williams exercise any 6 control over the sundry products that they 7 would have sold? Page 65 8 A Not that I'm aware of, no. 9 Q And I think that we were talking about 10 numbers of stores, and you had indicated that 11 1975, again which we already knew, was a 12 cutoff for some big changes. Do you have any 13 idea, as of 1975 or shortly thereafter, when 14 they made the switchover and got themselves a 15 little more organized on the stores, how many 16 there were? 17 A No, I do not know. 18 Q As of 1975 when you indicated that, as far as 19 your research shows, that's when 20 Sherwin-Williams undertook to determine which 21 of these joint compounds contained asbestos, 22 correct? 23 A Yes. 24 Q What, if any, action did Sherwin-Williams 25 take in 1975 upon learning that some of these POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 66 1 joint compounds it was carrying contained 2 asbestos? 3 A They did ensure that they were properly 4 labeled with the asbestos warning on them. 5 And the suppliers in that document that I 6 reviewed indicated that they -- any 7 asbestos-containing products had a warning on 8 them in 1975. 9 Q So as of 1975 they did check to see if there 10 were warning labels on stuff that other 11 people were making and selling in 12 Sherwin-Williams' stores under the 13 manufacturer's name, correct? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Do you know who was in charge of that 16 endeavor? 17 A The memo that I saw was -- I believe the name 18 was C.R. Martins, but I'd have to go back and 19 review the specific -- 20 Q And do you know what prompted 21 Sherwin-Williams to make this inquiry in 1975 22 about which joint compounds may have 23 contained asbestos? 24 A After speaking with Dwight and looking at the 25 documents, I believe that it was due to the POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 67 1 OSHA regulations that came into effect in 2 1972 and the awareness that was coming out 3 that asbestos may be harmful. And there was 4 some literature in documents in there from 5 the Consumer Product Safety Commission 6 indicating that they may be interested in 7 joint compounds specifically. 8 Q Now, it's true, is it not, though, that 9 asbestos was known to be a health hazard 10 prior to 1975, correct? 11 A Yes. 12 Q And it's true, is it not, that asbestos was 13 known to be a health hazard as far back as 14 the 1930s, correct? 15 MR. SERRITELLA: I'm going to 16 object. That's been asked and answered 17 already. 18 A Yes, there were references in the documents 19 to suggest that asbestos could be a hazard 20 back to the 30s. 21 Q And specifically, what changed in 1975 that 22 prompted Sherwin-Williams to act at that 23 point in time as opposed to a prior point in 24 time? 25 A I believe it was the awareness that the OSHA POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 regulations brought out, the volume of Page 68 2 literature and research that was developing 3 and being published and also the focus on the 4 Consumer Product Safety Commission of joint 5 compounds and the sanding that may occur 6 based on that, the literature and 7 publications that came out. 8 Q And I think you've named at least three 9 general categories that I can kind of 10 identify here. One is the OSHA regulation; 11 two would be what you referred to as the 12 volume of research and literature? 13 A There seem to be some other documents that 14 had been published at that time that I saw. 15 Q And then the third area that you mentioned 16 was the focus on consumer product safety at 17 that point in time? 18 A The Consumer Product Safety Commission had a 19 focus. 20 Q In what regard did the OSHA regulations add 21 to the body of knowledge in 1972 to '75 in a 22 way that prompted Sherwin-Williams to take 23 that action; what specifically did they add 24 to the mix that prompted them to take action 25 at that point in time? POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 69 1 A I don't know what specifically led them. It 2 was just the fact that it was now physically 3 regulated by OSHA, and there was more of a 4 focus on that particular chemical, but I 5 don't know exactly the details of what 6 prompted them. 7 Q Would it be fair to say that as of 1972, 8 '73 the federal government required companies 9 to take action with respect to asbestos? 10 A After the OSHA regulation came out they were 11 required to take action on the manufacturing 12 side. 13 Q Now, you also mentioned a volume of research 14 that was being done at that time. Can you 15 give me some specifics on what you're 16 referring to that came out in the 1970s era? 17 A I believe there were some documents that were 18 published, and they're available in there. 19 And one of them was by a doctor named 20 Selikoff who published some information about 21 sanding and abrading of different materials 22 used by consumers. 23 Q And are you aware as to whether or not 24 Dr. Selikoff previously published articles in 25 1964, 1965 relating to other uses of POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 asbestos? Page 70 2 A I haven't seen any. I'm not aware of any. 3 Q Do you have any knowledge or information as 4 to whether or not anyone working at 5 Sherwin-Williams, particularly in the safety 6 department, in the mid 1960s was aware of 7 Dr. Selikoff's publications involving 8 insulators? 9 A I'm not aware of that, no. 10 Q You also mentioned the Consumer Product 11 Safety Commission. What specifically about 12 any actions undertaken by the Consumer 13 Product Safety Commission in the 1975 time 14 frame would have prompted Sherwin-Williams to 15 take action at that point in time that it had 16 not previously undertaken? 17 A There was some documents and some literature 18 published where the Consumer Product Safety 19 Commission said they were interested in the 20 sanding dust that was produced from joint 21 compounds. 22 Q And I think you've already indicated that, 23 based on your discussions with Mr. Cohagan, 24 as far as you know he was aware in the 1960s 25 that sanding joint compound produced dusts, POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 correct? Page 71 2 A Yes. 3 Q Sherwin-Williams, in making its own 4 asbestos-containing products, would have 5 received shipments of raw asbestos, correct? 6 A Yes. 7 Q And they would have received -- one of their 8 suppliers was Johns Manville, correct? 9 A Yes. 10 Q Do you know whether or not the bags of raw 11 asbestos received from Johns Manville at any 12 point in time contained warnings as to the 13 hazards of asbestos? 14 A I have never seen specific bags or labeling 15 from there. 16 Q Even if you haven't seen specific bags or 17 labeling, based on the review of any 18 documents, discussions with anyone, do you 19 have any information whatsoever as to whether 20 or not Sherwin-Williams received bags of 21 asbestos from Johns Manville that contained 22 warnings as early as the 1960s? 23 A I don't have any information or documents 24 that show that. 25 Q So you just don't know one way or the other? POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 A No, I do not. 2 Q Do you know whether or not Sherwin-Williams 3 ever received any sort of written materials 4 as opposed to a label on a bag, like a memo 5 or anything like that from one of their 6 asbestos suppliers, that would have given 7 some indication that asbestos was a health Page 72 8 hazard? 9 A There is -- there are documents that were 10 supplied by the suppliers, but I do not 11 recall the time period. I'd have to go back 12 and look at the time periods. 13 Q Do you recall the supplier? 14 A Most of the documents I reviewed were from 15 Johns Manville. 16 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Sir, just 17 about five minutes. 18 MR. KOHLBURN: It's probably 19 a good time to take a break. 20 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off 21 the record at 1:16. 22 (Brief recess.) 23 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're back 24 on the record at 1:34 p.m. 25 POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 EXAMINATION OF ELIZABETH A. GILBERT 2 BY MR. KOHLBURN: Page 73 3 Q Sherwin-Williams has had quality control 4 laboratories over the years, correct? 5 A Yes. 6 Q And do you know how long they've had quality 7 control laboratories? 8 A No, I do not. 9 Q Do you know whether or not they ever 10 conducted any testing in these quality 11 control laboratories on products other than 12 those manufactured by Sherwin-Williams? 13 A I do not know that. 14 Q Do you know whether or not they ever 15 conducted any health effect studies in the 16 quality control laboratories? 17 A I do not believe they did so. 18 Q Do you have any information as to why they 19 did not conduct any health effect studies in 20 the quality control labs? 21 A The quality control labs, as far as I 22 understand, were geared towards product 23 specifications and application and 24 performance, not safety and health. 25 Q Have you reviewed materials from the POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 industrial hygiene library? Page 74 2 A Yes. 3 Q And did you ever personally visit the closet 4 that its contained in, I'm told, or did you 5 just review things that somebody pulled out 6 and handed you to review? 7 A The closet is next to my office. It's next 8 door to my office. 9 Q Okay. So I may see you tomorrow morning? 10 A Yes. 11 Q So I take it that you have then gone in and 12 independently reviewed the industrial hygiene 13 library? 14 A Yes. 15 Q There is an indication, I'll represent to 16 you, in some discovery responses that I've 17 received from Sherwin-Williams in this case 18 that Sherwin-Williams undertook to respond or 19 comply with various state laws over time. 20 With respect to the subject of asbestos, do 21 you have any information as to specific 22 actions undertaken by Sherwin-Williams at any 23 point in time prior to the 1970s to comply 24 with or conform their conduct with a 25 particular state law or regulation? POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 A I believe I've seen documents related to a Page 75 2 Virginia State statute disclosing composition 3 analysis. 4 Q And can you recall the time frame? 5 A I believe it was in the 50s. 6 Q And can you recall more specifically what 7 that statute or regulation required? 8 A I believe it was just disclosing the 9 components, main components, of the paint 10 product. 11 Q And do you know to whom these were to be 12 disclosed or how they were to be disclosed? 13 A It was a list of ingredients or somehow 14 components were disclosed on the label in the 15 container. 16 Q And so just to make sure I understand your 17 testimony correctly, you recall seeing a 18 Virginia law regulation from the 1950s that 19 required the manufacturers to list the 20 ingredients on the container or a label in 21 some fashion, correct? 22 A I know the -- I've seen labels and documents 23 where they've listed the components back to 24 the 50s, but I can't tell you the exact date 25 that the statute went into effect. So I POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 don't know if it was 50s or -- Page 76 2 Q Fair enough. And let me reask that then so 3 we can make it clear. What you saw was from 4 the 50s, correct? 5 A Yes. 6 Q And you don't know how far back that 7 requirement goes, correct? 8 A I believe it was compliance with the statute 9 as it came out in that time period, but I 10 don't know the exact year. 11 Q And without regard to the time frame now 12 since we've kind of set that, your 13 understanding of what you recall is that this 14 statute or regulation required a listing of 15 ingredients or components on the container or 16 the label in some fashion, correct? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Now, you indicated to me that it applied to 19 paint. Was the statute limited to paint in 20 any way? 21 A I believe it was paint related, yes. 22 Q So this would not be a general requirement 23 for any manufactured products but just paint, 24 as far as you know? 25 A For that one. POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 77 1 Q Other than this Virginia statute that you had 2 mentioned, are you familiar with any other 3 instances prior to the 1970s in which 4 Sherwin-Williams undertook to conform its 5 conduct or take any kind of actions to comply 6 with any state law or regulation that related 7 to asbestos or workplace safety or consumer 8 safety? 9 A I'm aware that there were documents in there 10 related to workplace safety in Illinois, and 11 there are some documents and correspondence 12 on how they were going to comply with that or 13 handle their products that were being made in 14 Illinois at that time. 15 Q Do you recall the time frame on that? 16 A I believe it was the 70s, but I'd have to go 17 back and review the document again. 18 Q Are you referring perhaps to some proposed 19 actions by the Illinois Pollution Control 20 Board in about 1971 to ban the use of 21 asbestos in particular applications? 22 A That may have been what it was, but I'd have 23 to go -- I'd have to look at that document 24 again. 25 Q Do you recall having seen anything with POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 78 1 regard to the State of Illinois prior to the 2 1970s such as a hazardous materials labeling 3 requirement from the 1950s? 4 A I don't recall seeing that. 5 Q Do you know how long -- strike that. 6 It's correct, is it not, that 7 Sherwin-Williams had a manufacturing facility 8 in Chicago, correct? 9 A Yes. 10 Q Do you know how long Sherwin-Williams had a 11 facility in Chicago? 12 A I don't know how -- I don't know how far 13 back. I do remember seeing documents from 14 1960, but I don't know how much farther back. 15 Q So you can put it as far back as 1960 at 16 least, but beyond that you don't know? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Anything else with regard to state laws 19 relating to asbestos, consumer safety, 20 workers safety, that you recall reviewing in 21 terms of Sherwin-Williams taking steps to 22 comply? 23 A From what period? 24 Q Prior to 1970. I'm sorry. 25 A No, not that I can recall. POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 Q Have you ever had any specific discussions 2 with Mr. Cohagan concerning warning label Page 79 3 requirements? 4 A In general? 5 Q In general. 6 A Yes, that's what our group does is warning 7 labels. 8 Q And so those discussions would relate to 9 current requirements for warning labels, 10 correct? 11 A They're current warnings and warnings that 12 were already in existence when I was hired 13 into The Sherwin-Williams Company. 14 Q And I guess that my poorly-asked question, 15 the point of which is you're referring to 16 instances where you're talking about 17 undertaking to either maintain existing 18 compliance or come into compliance with 19 regard to products that are being sold today 20 or during your tenure with Sherwin-Williams, 21 correct? 22 A And the development and how the label 23 warnings originally were developed that are 24 currently there. And some of them were 25 developed and in existence prior to me POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 getting here. 2 Q Have you ever had any discussions with 3 Mr. Cohagan concerning warnings with regard 4 to asbestos products, from a historical 5 standpoint as opposed to a current work 6 standpoint? Page 80 7 A We have talked about the development of the 8 warning labels, like I talked about before, 9 and when they first went on in 1975. 10 Q And can you recall when you had that 11 discussion or those discussions with 12 Mr. Cohagan? 13 A It's been sometime in the past six months. 14 Q And can you recall in general what you guys 15 discussed in that regard? 16 A Just mostly what we've already discussed 17 here, how the OSHA regulations, the 18 development, the awareness, published 19 literature, led to the development of the 20 warning that was put into the program or the 21 book at that time. 22 Q And would it be fair to say that with regard 23 to that area that we've already discussed, 24 that Mr. Cohagan was your primary source of 25 information as to that subject matter? POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 A For the warnings? 2 Q Yes. 3 A That appeared on our products? Page 81 4 Q Strike that. We talked about how in 1975 5 Sherwin-Williams not only put warnings on its 6 own asbestos-containing products but also 7 undertook to take a look at products it was 8 selling to see if those warning labels 9 complied, correct? 10 A For joint compounds. 11 Q Right. 12 A Yes. 13 Q And we had quite an extensive discussion 14 about that. And is it fair to say that most 15 of your information that you gave me about 16 those subject areas came from Mr. Cohagan? 17 A It came from documents and memos and 18 Mr. Cohagan. 19 Q Other than Mr. Cohagan, is there any person 20 that you know of who currently or in the past 21 worked for Sherwin-Williams who would have 22 knowledge of that particular subject area? 23 A Not that I'm aware of. 24 Q Do you have any knowledge or information as 25 to when Sherwin-Williams first became aware POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 82 1 of the threshold value limits established for 2 asbestos? 3 A I believe it was with the OSHA regulations 4 that were put into effect that were specific 5 for asbestos. 6 Q So that would be in the '72 to '75 time 7 frame? 8 A Yes. 9 Q Prior to that time, do you know if 10 Sherwin-Williams had knowledge of threshold 11 limit values as a general concept without 12 regard to their application to a particular 13 material? 14 A Yes, I believe I have seen documents in the 15 discussions with Dwight, that they were aware 16 of particulate levels for dusts and exposure 17 and protection from the hazards related to 18 dusts. 19 Q And if I say TLV instead of threshold limit 20 value, you know what I'm talking about, 21 right? 22 A Yes. 23 Q Very good. So I don't have to say the whole 24 thing. So basically, even prior to '72, 25 Sherwin-Williams knew what a TLV was, right? POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 A Yes. Page 83 2 Q And do you have any idea as to how far back 3 that awareness goes, how long they were aware 4 of what a TLV was? 5 A No, I don't have direct knowledge of a date. 6 Q And without regard to a date, as far back as 7 it will go, do you know if this is something 8 they were aware of throughout the 1960s? 9 A Just as it relates to the documents, 10 historical documents, I saw talking about 11 dusts and exposure to dusts but I don't know 12 dates or specifically. 13 Q But you recall some of those discussions from 14 the 1960s about dusts? 15 A Can you ask that again? 16 Q You recall that some of those discussions 17 about dusts occurred during the 1960s? 18 A No, they were discussions that I've had with 19 Dwight that were related to the 60s. 20 Q Okay, very good. Thank you. And do you know 21 what Sherwin-Williams' source of information 22 regarding TLVs was prior to 1972? 23 A No, I do not. 24 Q There's also an indication in the 25 interrogatory answers that I received from POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 84 1 Sherwin-Williams that they undertook to have 2 their labeling be consistent with NPCA 3 guidelines. And I assume that means the 4 National Paint & Coatings Association? 5 A Yes. 6 Q Do you have any knowledge or information as 7 to what those guidelines were, when they may 8 have come into effect and what 9 Sherwin-Williams did to comply? 10 A NPCA put out a series of guidance documents 11 for that, and I guess the earliest one from 12 the -- that I recall seeing, nothing was 13 mentioned in 1972 about specifically 14 regulating asbestos. There's no mention in 15 the 1972 version or any previous guidance 16 documents for asbestos. 17 Q So asbestos isn't mentioned in these guidance 18 documents on labeling, at least as of 1972. 19 Do you know how early the NPCA put out 20 guidance documents for labeling at all, 21 without regard to whether they mentioned 22 asbestos? 23 A I'd have to go back and look at the volume 24 dates on old copies. 25 Q Do you have an estimate; are we talking the POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 30s and 40s, 50s, 60s? Page 85 2 A No, I believe it was -- the 60s would be the 3 earliest, but I'd feel more comfortable 4 looking at the dates on those. 5 Q And Sherwin-Williams was also a member of the 6 Chemical Manufacturers Association, was it 7 not? 8 A I don't know if Sherwin-Williams was a member 9 or Dwight Cohagan was a member. I don't 10 recall seeing documents or a membership for 11 CMA for Sherwin-Williams at any time. 12 Q Or any of its predecessors? And when I say 13 predecessors I mean of the association, not 14 Sherwin-Williams. 15 I believe they were at one time known 16 as the Manufacturing Chemical Association? 17 A That I am not aware of. I haven't seen any 18 documents related to that. I have seen -- I 19 have talked to Dwight and where he has said 20 that he was a member of CMA, and I don't know 21 if that means globally or if, you know, 22 Sherwin-Williams as an entity or one of its 23 acquisitions may have been a member. 24 Q And so historically you don't know if 25 Sherwin-Williams was a member of that POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 association? 2 A No, I do not. 3 Q So is it fair to assume that you would not 4 have any knowledge as to whether or not Page 86 5 Sherwin-Williams received guidelines 6 published by that organization in 1945 7 concerning labeling of hazardous materials? 8 A That I have never seen. 9 Q Sherwin-Williams has been a member of the 10 National Safety Council, correct? 11 A I believe so, yes. 12 Q And do you have any information as to the 13 years during which Sherwin-Williams has been 14 a member of the National Safety Council? 15 A No, I don't know the years where they were 16 members. 17 Q Do you have any information at all as to any 18 time frames during which they may have been 19 associated with the National Safety Council? 20 A No, I do not know. 21 Q We've already talked extensively about 22 Mr. Cohagan, and there's a few other names 23 here of some people that have worked for 24 Sherwin-Williams, I believe, at different 25 points in time that I just want to see if you POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 87 1 know anything about. One of them is Pete 2 Sedlak. 3 Do you know Mr. Sedlak? 4 A Yes, I know him. I've met him a couple of 5 times. 6 Q And do you know what his position with 7 Sherwin-Williams is? 8 A I don't know his title, but I know he has 9 knowledge of stores. 10 Q And I think I'm deposing him tomorrow. 11 A Yes. 12 Q So I can just ask him about him. What about 13 a fellow named David Sarvadi, S A R V A D I? 14 A David Sarvadi was our first industrial 15 hygienist that was hired around 1974. 16 Q And is he still with Sherwin-Williams? 17 A No, he is not. 18 Q Do you know when he left Sherwin-Williams? 19 A No, I don't know the exact date, but it was 20 before I got here. 21 Q Do you have any idea where he went to work 22 when he left Sherwin-Williams? 23 A He is, I think at this time, employed for a 24 law firm, but I don't know which one. 25 Q You don't know which one. Do you know if POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 he's in this area still? Page 88 2 A No, I do not believe he's in this area. 3 Q And do you know whether or not when 4 Mr. Sarvadi came to Sherwin-Williams in 1974, 5 if he was fresh out of college or had been a 6 practicing industrial hygienist for years 7 before that? 8 A I do not know his background or history prior 9 to him being hired. 10 Q And have you ever met Mr. Sarvadi? 11 A No, I have not. 12 Q What about Pat Heard? 13 A I've heard the name. I don't know in what 14 reference to, though. 15 Q And do you know if Pat Heard is a man or a 16 woman? 17 A I don't know even know that. 18 Q So have I exhausted your information 19 concerning Pat Heard? 20 A That would be probably it. The name has been 21 said in reference to something at some time, 22 but I don't know to what. 23 Q What about Karen Heckman? 24 A There's another one, a girl. 25 Q Karen is a -- POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 A That I don't know anything beyond that. 2 Q Karen is a clear name. It's not one of 3 those -- if they'd put Patricia or Patrick 4 we'd know. Page 89 5 A Gender identifiable, and that's about all I 6 can tell you. 7 Q Yes. Barbara "Herns?" 8 A Barbara Hermes? 9 Q Hermes. 10 A Was an industrial hygienist, a certified 11 industrial hygienist, who has since retired. 12 Q And do you know when she retired? 13 A I think approximately six, six years ago, 14 five to six years ago, I think. 15 Q About 2000? 16 A It could have been. 17 Q Did you ever work directly with Ms. Hermes? 18 A She was in the occupational health group that 19 existed when I was first hired in. 20 Q And do you know how long she had been with 21 Sherwin-Williams? 22 A No, I do not. But it was many years, from 23 what I understand. 24 Q Do you recall whether or not any of the 25 employee interview notes you may have POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 90 1 reviewed, if she was ever interviewed for 2 information concerning asbestos? 3 A I do not recall seeing Barb's name on 4 anything. 5 Q Let me flip back. I know you don't know 6 anything more about them. But with regard to 7 Pat Heard, do you recall if that's where you 8 saw that name? 9 A I don't think so. I think it's a name that's 10 been mentioned in discussions throughout the 11 years. 12 Q And what about Karen Heckman, do you know if 13 -- 14 A That name doesn't -- I can't place that one 15 either to anything specific. 16 Q And I guess I'll flip back. Do you know if 17 Mr. Sarvadi has ever been interviewed in 18 connection with obtaining information about 19 Sherwin-Williams' use of asbestos or 20 knowledge of asbestos hazards? 21 A I don't remember seeing it as a formal 22 interview. 23 Q What about James Lawrence? 24 A Mr. Lawrence was the director of occupational 25 health and has since retired. POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 Q Do you know when he retired? Page 91 2 A Shortly after Barb retired, Barb Hermes 3 retired. So it's probably been the same time 4 frame. 5 Q Do you know when he came to work for 6 Sherwin-Williams? 7 A No, I do not. 8 Q What about Susan Avenko? 9 A She was a -- I don't know if she was a -- she 10 wasn't a certified industrial hygienist, but 11 she was employed in the occupational health 12 group. 13 Q Do you know if Mr. Lawrence was ever 14 interviewed; do you recall seeing interview 15 notes from him? 16 A I don't recall seeing his name, no. 17 Q And what about Ms. Avenko? 18 A No. 19 Q Jay Brown? 20 A Jay was a certified industrial hygienist that 21 was employed in the occupational health group 22 for several years. 23 Q Do you know what years those were, roughly? 24 A He came after I was hired so maybe '96, '97. 25 And he has been gone about three years, three POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 or four years. Page 92 2 Q And a Kathy "Padouski, Paduski?" 3 A Kathy Padelowski who is now Kathy Cole, C O L 4 E. She is the director -- the current 5 director of occupational health. 6 Q And do you know how long she's been with 7 Sherwin-Williams? 8 A Kathy was hired after Jay left. She became 9 director after Jay left. Jay hired Kathy, 10 and then Jay left, and Kathy became director 11 so -- 12 Q Do you know if she's ever been interviewed in 13 connection with Sherwin-Williams' historical 14 knowledge relating to asbestos? 15 A I don't believe so, no. 16 Q Do you know if she's participated at all in 17 that investigation? 18 A I do not think so. 19 Q Are you familiar, and I happen to know 20 despite the name that this is a gentleman, 21 Fran Gaugash, G A U G A S H? 22 A I have seen the name as someone who was in 23 charge of the safety group and the 24 investigations that were done. It related to 25 the documents that I reviewed. POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 Q And you've seen his name in the documents? Page 93 2 A Yes, uh-huh. 3 Q Do you know at what point in time Mr. Gaugash 4 became an employee of Sherwin-Williams? 5 A No, I do -- that was not in any of the 6 documents I reviewed. 7 Q He does go back into the 60s, though, 8 correct? 9 A I'd be guessing. I can't confirm the exact 10 dates on those, but I know I saw his name on 11 70s documents. But I would -- I'd be 12 guessing for anything beyond that. 13 Q So you don't know whether or not he was 14 involved in the safety department that 15 existed before there was a separate 16 occupational health department? 17 A I believe he was in -- from what I've been 18 told by Dwight, that he was in charge of the 19 safety group that was there at corporate. 20 And during what time period, I can't confirm. 21 I'd have to go back and ask or look. 22 Q So Mr. Cohagan would know better than you 23 when Mr. Gaugash came to Sherwin-Williams and 24 what he did when he was there? 25 A He might. POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 94 1 Q Are you familiar with a gentleman by the name 2 of Frank Angio, A N G I O? 3 A I believe it's a name I saw on a Workers' 4 Comp list as a claimant. 5 Q Do you know what kind of claimant? 6 A It was in the asbestos documents. 7 Q Do you know what area of the plant or what 8 facility Mr. Angio worked at for 9 Sherwin-Williams? 10 A No, I do not. 11 Q Do you have any information whatsoever 12 concerning Mr. Angio's employment with 13 Sherwin-Williams including, you know, when, 14 where, what he did? 15 A No. All I saw was his synopsis of 16 approximately five or six Workers' Comp 17 claims. 18 Q And as you sit here, would you know what 19 disease Mr. Angio suffered from? 20 A No, I would not. I'd have to go back and 21 look at that list. It was just a list of 22 five or six names, and I think that might 23 have been the first one, which is why I 24 recall it. 25 Q What about Frank D O B R O V O D S K Y, I'm POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 going to guess at Dobrovodsky? 2 A No, that one's -- I don't recall. 3 Q And so would you know what facility this 4 gentleman may have worked at? Page 95 5 A No, I would not. 6 Q Or what his job duties were? 7 A No. 8 Q Or his tenure of employment with The 9 Sherwin-Williams Company? 10 A No, I would not know that. 11 Q Henry Virgin? 12 A No, I don't recall seeing that name either. 13 Q You don't recall seeing that name at all? 14 A If they're -- no. I did review a list. If 15 those were Workers' Comp names, I -- 16 Q I will -- 17 A They have been in the list I saw, but there 18 were -- there was a name, a couple of 19 sentences related to Workers' Comp, but I did 20 not memorize or review those. 21 Q I'll represent to you that these are names 22 that were provided to me by Sherwin-Williams 23 in discovery as individuals who worked for 24 the company that made Workers' Compensation 25 claims. And I believe at least three of POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 these four suffered from mesothelioma. Page 96 2 A Okay. That -- I don't recall details of any 3 of them. 4 Q And so you don't have any information 5 concerning Mr. Virgin's tenure with 6 Sherwin-Williams, be it job duties, time 7 frames, disease process, anything of that 8 nature? 9 A No, only what was on those short synopsis 10 lists. 11 Q And the same question for Elden it looks like 12 Cotterman, C O T T E R M A N? 13 A The same answer. If it was -- 14 Q No information as to work history or anything 15 of that nature? 16 A No, not beyond what was on that, if that was 17 one of the names on the synopsis. 18 Q Are you familiar with a Dr. Durward Jones? 19 A No, the name doesn't even sound familiar. 20 Q So you wouldn't have any information as to 21 Dr. Jones' prior service as a medical 22 director for Sherwin-Williams; is that 23 correct? 24 A That would be correct. 25 Q And you wouldn't have any information then, POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 would you, as to any publications that Page 97 2 Dr. Jones served as an editor for? 3 A I haven't seen any or I'm not aware of any . 4 Q And you wouldn't have any idea of whether or 5 not those publications published articles 6 concerning health hazards relating to 7 asbestos then, would you? 8 A No. 9 MR. KOHLBURN: I believe 10 that's all I've got. 11 MR. SIBLEY: Okay. Give us 12 a minute. Does anybody on the telephone have 13 questions? 14 MALE SPEAKER: No. 15 MR. SERRITELLA: Anybody there? 16 Okay, no questions. 17 MR. SIBLEY: Okay. Give us --i 1 --i 1 18 one minute. 19 MR. KOHLBURN: Sure. 20 MR. SIBLEY: And then we 21 come back. Let's go off the record. 22 THE VIDEOGRAPHER : Going off 23 the record at 2:02 p.m. 24 (Brief recess.) 25 (Discussion held off the record.) POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 98 1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're back 2 on the record at 2:07. 3 4 EXAMINATION OF ELIZABETH A. GILBERT 5 BY MR. KOHLBURN: 6 Q Just very briefly, I'm going to hand you a 7 couple of notebooks here. And I don't need 8 you to identify each and every document here, 9 but could you tell me in general what these 10 two binders represent? 11 A These were the two binders of documents that 12 I reviewed prior to the deposition. 13 Q And for the record, and you can check this 14 just to make sure, volume number one starts 15 with Bates number EAG0001 and goes through to 16 EAG0565? 17 A That is correct. 18 Q And volume number two starts at EAG0566 and 19 goes through to EAG1201, correct? 20 A That's correct. 21 Q And it's also been represented to me by your 22 counsel that there may be some Bates numbers 23 missing in there that would represent 24 documents as to which Sherwin-Williams is 25 asserting a privilege, correct? POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 A That's correct. Page 99 2 MR. KOHLBURN: And it' s my 3 understanding -- I've already been provided 4 with a log of what's missing, a privileged 5 log, but I've been informed that it's missing 6 a couple of items and I'll be getting an 7 updated one within a day or two. 8 MR. SIBLEY: That's 9 correct. 10 MR. KOHLBURN: Okay. Very 11 good. We're done. 12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're going 13 off record at 2:08. 14 (Thereupon, the deposition concluded at 2:08 15 o'clock p.m.) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 THE STATE OF OHIO, ) COUNTY OF CUYAHOGA. ) 2 SS: Page 100 3 I, Christina A. Raymond, a Notary Public 4 within and for the State of Ohio, duly 5 commissioned and qualified, do hereby certify 6 that ELIZABETH A. GILBERT, was first duly sworn 7 to testify the truth, the whole truth and nothing 8 but the truth in the cause aforesaid; that the 9 testimony then given by her was by me reduced to 10 stenotypy in the presence of said witness, 11 afterwards transcribed on a computer/printer, and 12 that the foregoing is a true and correct 13 transcript of the testimony so given by her, as 14 aforesaid. 15 I do further certify that this deposition 16 was taken at the time and place in the foregoing 17 caption specified. I do further certify that I 18 am not a relative, counsel or attorney of either 19 party, or otherwise interested in the event of 20 this action. 21 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my 22 hand and affixed my seal of office at Cleveland, 23 Ohio, on this 5th day of February, 2007. 24 Christina A. Raymond, Notary Public 25 within and for the State of Ohio My Commission expires November 9, 2010. POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 1 STATE OF 2 COUNTY OF 3 ) ) SS: ) Page 101 4 5 Before me, a Notary Public in and for said 6 state and county, personally appeared the 7 above-named ELIZABETH A. GILBERT, who 8 acknowledges that she did sign the foregoing 9 transcript and that the same is a true and 10 correct transcript of the testimony so given. 11 IN TESTIMONY WHEREOF, I have hereunto 12 affixed my name and official seal at 13 this day of 14 , 2007. 15 16 17 18 ELIZABETH A. GILBERT 19 20 21 Notary Public 22 23 My Commission expires: 24 25 POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 102 A able 58-5 63-6 abovenamed 101:7 abrading 38:8 69:21 accumulated 17:5 accurate 35:5 acknowledges 101:8 acme 24:6,21 acquired 18:25 21:11,14,17 22:22 22:25 23:5 24:10 24:15,19 25:6,13 25:21 35:1,8 51:22 acquisitions 35:3 85:23 act 67:22 action 65:24 68:23 68:24 69:9,11 70:15 100:20 actions 58:25 59:8 60:6,21 61:1 70:12 74:22 77:5 77:19 actual 44:11 add 68:20,23 adhesives 20:8,11 20:14,18,23 21:3 administrator 1:4 advent 61:22 advertise 50:12,23 advertised 51:9,12 advertisement 51:17 advertisements 51:4 aerosol 34:11 aerosols 28:22 29:8 affairs 9:19 31:17 affiliated 33:22 affirmatively 45:8 affixed 100:22 101:12 aforesaid 100:8,14 age 7:17 agnes 9:12 ago 89:13,14 agree 54:25 ahead 15:7 air 17:6 akron15:13,16 16:1 16:3 al 1:8 7:5,6 allen 4:13 alton 3:5 analysis 75:3 andrew 1:5 angio 94:2,8,19 angios 94:12 answer 11:5,6 59:19 96:13 answered 35:12 43:15 55:8 67:16 answers 83:25 anticipated 51:19 anybody 38:20 97:12 97:15 appear 37:23 appearances 3:1 4:1 5:1 6:1 appeared 38:2 81:3 101:6 appearing 37:21 application 73:23 82:12 applications 77:21 applied 18:2 76:18 apply 48:4 approved 45:20,21 45:23 46:7,10 48:15,18,23 54:24 approximately 21:13 22:25 27:17 47:12 89:13 94:16 approximation 13:12 63:7 area 18:5,14 31:15 31:23 68:15 80:23 81:22 88:1,2 94:7 areas 10:6,25 11:5 11:10 27:25 46:23 81:16 arent 29:8 articles 69:24 97:5 asbestos 10:21 13:22 19:18 23:16 35:24 36:9,11,13 36:17 37:12,16,17 37:25 38:6 39:15 39:22 40:6,12 43:6,9,19,24 44:4 44:11,16 45:4,7 45:10 58:8,15 59:3,12,18 60:2,8 60:9,12,14 65:21 66:2,4,23 67:3,9 67:12,19 69:9 70:1 71:5,11,13 71:21 72:6,7 74:20 77:7,21 78:19 80:4 82:2,5 84:14,16,17,22 90:2,19,20 92:14 94:6 97:7 asbestoscontaining 20:15 21:21 36:24 37:5 38:10 39:1 39:11 62:14,20,23 66:7 71:4 81:6 asbestosis 40:13 asbestosrelated 13:14,18 ascertain 56:8 ash 17:5 asked 11:3 26:22 41:25 67:16 asphalt 37:7 asserting 98:25 asset 21:18 35:9 assist 53:2 assistant 15:25 16:3,13,14 associated 19:12 50:17 54:18 86:19 association 22:10 84:4 85:6,13,16 86:1 associations 20:23 22:7 23:24 assume 25:4,12,19 29:9 53:13 62:4 84:3 86:3 assumes 57:20 assuming 24:15 54:14 59:16 assumption 62:11 atlanta 4:6 attorney 100:18 attorneys 12:5,5,24 14:7 attract 53:8,13 august 9:25 auspices 31:5 availability 50:24 available 38:5 51:14 62:17 64:11 69:18 avenko 91:8,17 avenue 1:21 5:21 aware 27:5 34:23,25 36:23 38:24 43:16 44:19 48:2 49:10 49:25 50:3,11 51:1 52:5 55:15 55:19,25 56:6 57:14 58:24 59:8 59:17 60:3,5 61:1 65:8 69:23 70:2,6 70:9,24 77:9 81:23,25 82:15 83:3,8 85:17 97:3 awareness 37:25 67:2,25 80:18 83:3 B bachelors 15:12,17 15:20 18:11 back 21:15,23 23:13 24:12 26:24 27:1 31:25 32:25 33:4 33:25 34:17 36:22 37:3,19 39:23 40:9 43:12 50:25 51:17 52:18 61:6 63:17,23 65:2 66:18 67:13,20 72:11,23 75:23 76:6 77:17 78:13 78:14,15 83:2,6 84:23 90:5,16 93:7,21 94:20 97:21 98:1 background 88:8 bad 41:25 bag 72:4 bags 71:10,14,16,20 ballpark 63:8 ban 77:20 barb 91:2,2 barbara 89:7,8 barbs 90:3 barr 25:25 based 40:3 43:25 46:24 57:4 68:6 70:23 71:17 basically 11:18 26:13 49:23 54:19 82:24 bates 98:15,22 bear 46:15 began 19:8 37:20,23 38:2 beginning 38:1 behalf 3:2,9,16 4:2 4:11,20 5:3,10,18 6:3,11 believe 8:9 13:6 15:2 20:1 22:9,14 24:12 26:8 27:8 30:4,19 31:25 32:19 34:15 35:25 40:2,15 41:15 42:6 43:7 44:18 49:19 50:5 52:17 54:3 55:5 61:9,14 62:18 63:14 66:17 66:25 67:25 69:17 73:17 75:1,5,8 76:8,21 77:16 82:3,14 85:2,15 86:11,24 88:2 92:15 93:17 94:3 95:25 97:9 bell 6:13 belonged 20:24 22:8 22:9 23:25 POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 103 benefit 53:4,6,17 54:2,3 berkshire 3:4 best 14:1 58:1 better 55:13 93:22 beyond 20:10 78:16 89:1 93:12 96:16 big 42:4 47:13 65:12 bill 7:23 binders 98:10,11 binding 48:19 biology 15:12 bit 12:1 63:20 blank 26:25 40:20 40:23 board 77:20 bob 52:8 bodies 32:3 body 68:21 boilers 17:3 bondex 45:25 book 80:21 books 12:9 38:5 bought 59:23 boulevard 3:4 bound 47:15 48:19 box 3:5 4:15 brand 26:12,17 35:17 64:10 branded 29:2 64:8 64:21,24 brands 26:18,20,21 28:13,20,21 break 72:19 brief 72:22 97:24 briefly 16:24 52:12 98:6 broader 41:20,22 broadway 7:11 brothers 24:25 brought 68:1 brown 91:19 brushes 50:19 building 1:21 bulked 17:5 bulkley 1:20 burns 5:5 business 53:7 buy 48:20 54:25 C call 15:3 called 1:15 7:17 20:7,8 21:5 22:18 24:6 29:22 33:7,9 33:14 60:22 64:14 64:18 cant 14:23 19:14 28:6 41:1 52:15 57:22 75:24 90:14 93:9,20 capacity 54:16 caption 100:17 carried 31:4 64:6,9 64:20,21 carries 31:7 carrying 66:1 case 1:7 7:4,6 13:14 16:9,11,15 74:17 cases 13:19 categories 68:9 caulks 37:8 cause 40:7 43:6 100:8 ceased 30:25 cement 37:8 central 5:21 certain 26:4,9 46:11 53:15 certainteed 4:12 certifications 18:4 18:13 certified 7:20 29:18 61:12,16,19 62:1 89:10 91:10 91:20 certify 100:5,15,17 changed 47:16,17,18 67:21 changes 65:12 characterize 56:11 57:3 charge 32:10 46:25 66:15 92:23 93:18 check 56:17 57:12 66:9 98:13 chemical 69:4 85:6 85:16 chemist 16:23,25 chicago 3:19 4:23 6:6,14 78:8,11 choosing 54:23 christina 1:17 100:3,24 circuit 1:1,1 7:8 circumstances 40:7 58:17 city 5:13 16:16,21 16:25 civil 1:16 7:18 claimant 94:4,5 claims 12:7 94:17 95:25 clarify 11:18 32:12 35:13,18 50:6 57:10 61:9 clear 76:3 89:2 cleaverbrooks 5:3 cleveland 1:22 27:10 100:22 close 63:14 closely 48:17 closet 74:3,7 cma 85:11,20 coal 17:6 coatings 22:10 37:8 37:8 84:4 code 43:8 cohagan 12:11,16,17 12:24 14:4,6 40:4 49:17,21 70:23 79:2 80:3,12,24 81:16,18,19 85:9 86:22 93:22 cohen 3:18 cole 92:3 collateral 29:5 collected 12:10 college 15:10 88:5 combined 34:10 come 4 9:17 79:18 84:8 97:21 comfortable 85:3 coming 67:2 commencing 1:22 commission 67:5 68:4,18 70:11,13 70:19 100:25 101:23 commissioned 100:5 comp 94:4,16 95:15 95:19 companies 21:10 69:8 company 1:8 3:10,16 4:3,20 5:19 7:6 7:11 9:16,24 11:8 13:7,9 19:13 20:7 21:12 22:22,23 25:10,17,22 26:1 26:17,19 27:24 29:24 31:9 35:5 47:23 79:13 95:9 95:24 companys 56:4 compensation 95:24 completed 18:12 completely 45:9 compliance 31:18,19 31:20,25 57:16,22 76:8 79:18,18 compliant 58:2 complied 81:9 comply 74:19,23 77:5,12 78:22 84:9 complying 57:23 component 60:23 components 57:9 75:9,9,14,23 76:15 composition 57:21 75:2 compound 39:12,19 46:4 49:11,13,15 49:23 53:24,25 54:20 59:16 70:25 compounds 3 9:6,14 43:17,22 44:3,10 44:15,22 45:3,6 45:10,16,22 48:7 50:10,21 56:1 65:21 66:1,22 67:7 68:5 70:21 81:10 computer 10 0:11 concept 82:11 concerning 19:3 23:4,19,24 24:3 24:21 79:2 80:3 86:7 88:19 90:2 94:12 96:5 97:6 concluded 99:14 conditions 42:14 58:21 conduct 12:18 38:16 38:20,21 73:19 74:24 77:5 conducted 41:11,12 41:16 55:11,15 73:10,15 confirm 93:9,20 conform 74:24 77:4 conlux 35:5 connection 90:18 92:13 consistent 84:2 consultant 31:13 consumer 28:13,23 28:24,25 29:13 32:9,17 33:18 53:3 67:5 68:4,16 68:18 70:10,12,18 77:7 78:19 consumers 60:1,7 61:3 69:22 contain 39:15 43:24 56:4 contained 14:17 19:18 23:15 35:24 36:9,17 37:12 38:6 39:21 43:18 44:4,11,15 45:4 45:10 56:9 65:21 POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 104 66:1,23 71:12,21 74:4 container 75:15,20 76:15 containers 26:3 content 4 4:21 50:9 continental 5:18 continued 4:1 5:1 6:1 continuously 36:15 contractor 41:14 control 65:6 73:3,7 73:11,16,20,21 77:19 controls 58:9 conversations 4 0:4 cooper 3:4,16 5:18 copies 84:24 corporate 9:18 10:7 11:1 30:12 32:10 45:18 46:10 48:1 48:2,12,14 93:19 corporation 4:11,11 4:12 6:3 34:19,22 correct 10:3,8,13 10:22 11:19,23 12:3 14:12 30:11 32:18 39:3,7 42:19 43:19 47:20 48:12 53:16 54:12 54:21 55:4 56:14 61:13 62:10 64:16 65:22 66:13 67:10 67:14 71:1,5,8 73:4 75:21 76:4,7 76:16 78:6,8 79:10,21 81:9 86:10 93:8 96:23 96:24 98:17,19,20 98:25 99:1,9 100:12 101:10 correctly 53:18 75:17 correspondence 77:11 cost 51:22 costs 51:23 cotterman 96:12 couldnt 37:2 council 86:10,14,19 counsel 7:12 98:22 100:18 county 1:2 7:8 100:1 101:2,6 couple 14:14 87:4 95:18 98:7 99:6 coursework15:14 court 1:1,18 7:8,14 covered 2 9:12 covering 47:9 crane 5:3 created 32:2,6 criteria 48:21 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didnt8:15 38:19 42:21 48:17 53:18 54:7,15,19 55:19 56:22 62:24 64:25 different 15:5 31:4 31:5 39:17 41:21 41:22 69:21 86:24 diplomas 18:13 direct 11:9,19,20 83:5 direction 47:22 directly 89:17 director 9:18 13:11 20:20 22:4 23:21 30:15,18,20,22,25 31:3 90:24 92:4,5 92:9,10 96:22 dirty 52:13 disagree 8:3 disclosed 75:12,12 75:14 disclosing 75:2,8 disclosure 10:5 discovered 43:23 discovery 1:11,14 7:2 74:16 95:23 discussed 33:13,16 80:15,16,23 discussing 14:4 33:23 discussion 80:11 81:13 97:25 discussions 70:23 71:18 79:1,8 80:2 80:11 82:15 83:13 83:16,18 90:10 disease 40:7,12 43:6 94:19 96:7 dispersions 35:5 district 46:12,25 47:24 48:11 districts 46:23,24 47:2,8,11,14,17 diversified 28:13 28:20,21 divided 27:24 28:9 28:11 47:13 division 28:14,24 28:25 29:13 31:15 34:11,12 divisions 27:25 28:4,12 29:5 34:10 62:25 dobco 35:7 dobrovodsky 95:1 doctor 42:3 69:19 doctors 31:11 document 43:8 45:12 66:5 77:17,23 98:8 documentation 42:10 42:25 44:6 55:20 documentations 52:3 documents 11:14 12:3,4 13:25 14:2 14:15 19:24 22:12 33:3,12,21 34:1 39:24 40:3,8 43:7 43:12,25 44:9 58:13 66:25 67:4 67:18 68:13 69:17 70:17 71:18,23 72:9,14 75:1,22 77:9,11 78:13 81:17 82:14 83:9 83:10 84:10,16,18 84:20 85:10,18 92:25 93:1,6,11 94:6 98:11,24 doesnt 29:11 63:23 90:14 96:19 dont 11:18 13:10 14:18 15:5 19:1,6 19:11 22:17 23:2 23:17,22 24:17 26:20 27:15 29:6 30:4 31:1 32:5,5 32:25 33:4,7,13 34:7,20 36:6 38:19 40:20 41:9 41:17 47:10 49:1 51:9,17,23 52:23 52:23 53:6,12 54:3,6,13,17,22 54:22 57:23 61:18 61:24 62:4 63:4 63:11 69:1,5 71:23,25 76:1,6 76:10 78:4,12,12 78:14,16 82:23 83:5,11 85:8,9,20 85:24 86:15 87:8 87:19,24,25 88:13 88:17,22 89:1 POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY 314-421-0099 Page 105 90:5,9,21 91:9,16 92:15 93:13 95:2 95:12,13 96:2,4 98:7 door 74:8 dr 69:24 70:7 96:18 96:21 97:2 drawing 26:25 40:20 40:23 drive 3:12,19 4:22 due 66:25 duly 7:19 100:4,6 duncan 1:3,5 7:5,24 8:24 duron 26:24 durward 96:18 dust 50:4,8,9 60:11 60:19 70:20 dusts 43:9,10 58:14 58:21 60:24,25 61:5 70:25 82:16 82:18 83:11,11,14 83:17 dusty 42:14 duties 16:25 95:6 96:6 dwight12:11 49:12 49:16 66:24 82:15 83:19 85:9,19 93:18 E eag000198:15 eag056598:16 eag056698:18 eag120198:19 earliest 13:8 27:12 28:8 39:10,18 40:5 84:11 85:3 early 29:24 40:1,2 71:22 84:19 east 3:5 editor 97:2 educate 11:21 education 15:8,11 58:10 edwardsville 4:15 effect 67:1 73:15 73:19 75:25 82:4 84:8 eight 62:18,19 either 49:19 52:23 79:17 90:15 95:12 100:18 elaborate 43:4 elden 96:11 electric 5:18 elgin 5:6 elizabeth 1:11,14 2:1 7:2,16 9:8,12 73:1 98:4 100:6 101:7,18 ellis 52:9,13 elses 55:3 employ 31:11 61:16 employed 9:13 15:24 29:23 44:25 61:12 87:23 91:11,21 employee 14:16 17:19 89:25 93:4 employees 12:8 14:11,21 31:9 42:17 58:7,11,19 employment 15:8 94:12 95:8 encompass 29:3 encompasses 28:16 endeavor 66:16 energy 6:3 engineer 17:14,17 engineering 58:9 enright 7:24 8:2,12 8:24,25 ensure 66:3 entail 31:19 entirely 32:25 56:13 entities 34:25 35:10 entity 18:18,24 20:8 21:5 22:18 24:6,10,24 25:2,7 25:9,14,16 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