Document DGw5nRx7qzdZ6vx7DmJgdOOao

Superior Court of the State of California For the County of Los Angeles TRANSWESTERN PIPELINE ) COMPANY, ) Plaintiff, ) ) ) vs. ) ) MONSANTO COMPANY and ) DOES 1 through 200, inclusive, ) Defendant ) ) Case No. BC 026959 Volume II June 12, 1992 Deposition of ROBERT ELLIS KELLER, taken on behalf ofPlaintiff. / GORE REPORTING COMPANY Boatmen's Tower, Suite 1175 -100 North Broadway St Louis, Missouri 63102 (314) 241-6750 STLCOPCB4027036 1_ Superior court of th State of California 2 For the County of Los Angeles 3 4 TRANSWESTERN PIPELINE ) 5 COMPANY, ) 6 Plaintiff, ) 7) 8 v. ) No. BC 026959 9) 10 MONSANTO COMPANY and ) 11 DOES 1 through 2 0 0 , ) 1 2 inclusive, ) 13 Defendants. ) 14 15 1 6 Volume II 17 1 8 Continuation of the deposition of 1 9 ROBERT ELLIS KELLER, taken on behalf of 2 0 Plaintiff, at the offices of ,B r y a n , Cave, 2 1 McPheeters & McRoberts, 500 North Broadway in 2 2 the City of St. Louis, State of Missouri, on 2 3 the 9th day of January, 1992, before J. Bryan 2 4 Jordan, certified shorthand reporter and 2 5 notary pub lie. GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 2 12 STLCOPCB4027037 1 APPEARANCES : 2 3 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 4 John P. Tallon, Esq. 5 Shearman & Sterling 6 21st Floor 7 725 South Figueroa Street 8 Los Angeles, California 90017 9 (213) 239-0300 10 1 1 FOR THE DEFENDANTS: 1 2 Donald F. Zimmer, Jr., Esq. 1 3 Bronson, Bronson & McKinnon 1 4 505 Montgomery Street 1 5 San Francisco, California 94111-2514 1 6 (415) 986-4200 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 2 13 STLCOPCB4027038 1 INDEX 2 PAGE 3 EXAMINATION BY MR. TALLON (Cont'd) 215 4 5 6 EXHIBITS 7 8 p 1 a i n t i f f 1 s Exhibit 2 9 8 ......................... ...................... 2 16 9 p 1 a i n t i f f 1' s Exhibit 2 9 9 ......................... ...................... 223 10 p 1 a i n t i f f ' s Exhibit 3 0 0 ......................... .................. 225 11 p 1 a i n t i f f '' s Exhibit 3 0 1 ......................... .................. 230 12 p 1 aintiff ' s Exhibit 3 0 2 ......................... .................. 237 13 p 1 a i n t i f f '1 s E x h i b i t 3 0 3 ......................... .................. 239 14 p 1 a i n t i f f ' s Exhibit 3 0 4 ......................... .................. 240 15 p 1 a i n t i f f '1 s Exhibit 3 0 5 ......................... .................. 242 16 p 1 a i n t i f f 1' s Exhibit 3 0 6 ......................... .................. 245 17 p 1 a i n t i f f '' s Exhibit 3 0 7 ......................... ...................... 248 18 p 1 aintiff1' s Exhibit 3 0 8 ......................... .................. 249 19 p 1 a i n t i f f '1 s Exhibit 3 0 9 .............................................. 250 20 p 1 a i n t i f f '' s Exhibit 3 10 .................. . ...................... 250 21 p 1 a i n t i f f ' s Exhibit 3 11 .............................................. 251 22 p 1 a i n t i f f 1' s Exhibit 3 12 .............................................. 253 23 p 1 a i n t i f f ' s Exhibit 3 13 .............................................. 255 24 p 1 a i n t i f f ' s Exhibit 3 14 .............................................. 2 57 25 p 1 a i n t i f f ' s Exhibit 3 15 ...................... ..................... 259 GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 2 14 STLCOPCB4027039 2 3 4 5 6; 7; 8, 9 j; 10 !: i: ji 1 1 |; 1 2 j. 13 I! jj 1 4 i> 15 ! i 1 6 ji iI ii 1 7 j; i: 1 8 |l 1 9 ; i: 20 21 22 23 24 25 JUNE 1 2 , 19 9 2 (The deposition o f Dr . Keller was resumed beg inn i n g at 9:00 a.m., as follows:) BY MR. TALLON: Q. Doctor, do you have any knowledge regarding the process that -- used by Monsanto to manufacture aroclors in the 1200 series? A. I had very little to do with the processing, and I have -- don't recall the process knowledge. Q. Does it refresh your recollection in any respect if I asked you whether the manufacturing process involved running chlorine gas over hot biphenyls for a set period of time? A. I just mad no involvement with that part of it. I have no, no remembrance of that . , Q. So my asking you that question does not refresh your recollection in any respect? A . No , it does not. Q Do you have any recollection GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI ! 2 15 STLCOPCB4027040 Doctor , of beinginvolved in any analysis of 2 mud s a mples from a river near Ne wport in the 3 United Kingdom? 4 A . No , I do not. 5 MR . TALLON: Let me s how you a 6 documen t that we'll mark as the next exhibit 7 in o r d e r , w h i ch is 298. That's a two-page 8 d o c u m e n t bear ing production numb e r s TRAN 9 0 2 3 5 0 3 and 04 10 ( P1ainti f f ' s Deposi tion 1 1 Exhibit 298 mark e d for 1 2 identifi cation.) 1 3 BY MR . TALLON : 1 4 Q . Ta k e a moment and rev ie w that, 1 5 please 1 6 (Witness peruses said 1 7 document . ) 1 8 BY MR. TALLON: 1 9 Q. Have you reviewed tha t document, 2 0 Doctor? . 2 1 A. Yes. i 2 2 Q. Does having reviewed it refresh 2 3 your recollection in any respect as to 2 4 whether or not you participated in any 2 5 analysis of estuary mud samples from the GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 2 16 STLCOPCB4027041 Uskmcuth area? 2 A. No, this doesn't help me a bit. 3 Q . Do you have any recollection 4 whether Mr. Tucker participated in such an 5 analysis? 6 A. Mr. Tucker? 7 Q. Right, E. S. Tucker. 8 A. What was the question again, 9 please? 1 0 Q . Yes, do you know if he 1 1 participated in an analysis -- do you 1 2 recollect whether he participated in an 1 3 analysis of estuary mud samples? 1 4 A. I recollect that he participated, i5 1 6 Q E. S. Tucker i s Scott Tucker? 1 7 A . Correct . 1 8 Q Do you have any present 1 9 recollection of having communicated with Mr. 2 0 Tucker on the subject of his analysis? 2 1 A. I had no communication that I 2 2 recall. 2 3 Q. Are you able to state anything 2 4 other than that he participated in the 2 5 analysis? GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 217 STLCOPCB4027042 1 2 3 4 5 6i !; 7r i. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A . I can' t r e c all anyth i n g else Q Do you know whether there w a s a plant o r other -- do y o u know i f there was a plant i n Newport in t h e United Kingdom that was -- that had PCB's in plant effluent o f any type? MR. ZIMMER: Calls for speculation, assumes facts not in evidence, lacks foundation. MR. TALLON: You can answer. A. Well, I recall that there was an Aroclor plant and that's all. BY MR. TALLON: Q. An Aroclor plant in Newport? A. Newport. Q. And was there also a plant in Ru abon ? A I'm not sure on that. Q Was there some Monsanto facility in Ruabon? A. Oh, yes. Q. What? Whatthat facility? A. It was a manufacturing facility for a variety of products for Monsanto. Q. And where is Ruabon? I I GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 2 18 STLCOPCB4027043 n A . R u a b o n is in North Wal e s . 2 Q . Doctor, just one point o n that 3 Exhibit 298 which you have before you . You 4 appear to be a cc: of that memora n d a -- 5 memorandum; correct? 6 A . Correct. 7 Q And following your name is a 8 designation that says "S.. 2nd.. " Do you see 9 that? 1 0 A. Yes. 1 1 Q. Do you have any understanding as 1 2 to what this designation signifies? 1 3 A . Ye s . 1 4 Q Wh at is your u n d erstanding? 1 5 A . Ch ief chemis t at Newport at that 1 6 point in t i m e 1 7 Q Th e "2nd" si g n i f ies chief chemist 1 8 at Newport a t that time 7 1 9 MR . ZIMMER: Ke means the 2 0 indication f o llowing your n amp, .not that 21 A. F . -2 2 A. I'm sorry, you are talking about 2 3 the South 2nd Street. 2 4 Q Right. Is that what that means? 2 5 A . That means the 1 o c a t i on where I GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 2 19 STLCOPCB4027044 was located in Monsanto. 2 Q. At that point, that is to say, "3 October Sth, 1969, you were in a facility at 4 South 2nd Street? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. And Mr. Tucker was also there? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. Where was his office in 9 relationship to your office? 10 A. His office was in a laboratory, in 1 1 the laboratory facility at thatlocation and 1 2 would have been approximatelytwo to three 1 3 hundred feet from my office; that range. 1 4 Q. Was the GC masssystem at South 1 5 2nd Street in October 1969? 1 6 A . Yes . 1 7 Q How long did you have an office at 1 8 2nd Street? 1 9 A . Until approximately 1972,, when the 2 0 Organic -- or, when the rese a;r ch laboratories j i ; 2 1 moved from that location out to the Creve i 2 2 Coeursite. Jt ! 2 3 Q. Did you ever have an office in a j 2 4 facility with the name Queeny? i j j 2 5 A. The research laboratories were a GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 220 STLCOPCB4027045 1 -art of the Queeny plant location, yes. 2 Q. And where was the Queeny Plant 3 locationst? 4 A. That was at South 2nd Street. 5 Q. Doctor, do you recall ever, 6 without specific reference to the analysis of 7 estuary mud samples from the Uskmouth area 8 reflected in this exhibit, do you have a 9 recollection of Aroclor 1242 being found in 1 0 mud samples from any location? 1 1 A . No . 1 2 MR. ZIMMER: In which time frame? 1 3 Well, I guess it's moot. 1 4 A. (Continuing) I don't have any 1 5 recollection. 1 6 BY MR. TALLON: 17 Q. Doctor, are you familiar with the 1 8 term "electron capture fingerprints"? 1 9 A. I'm not a practicing gas 2 0 chromatograph person, and I ' v^e been away from 2 1 that too many years and never did do the j 22 technical experimental work, so my answer is | l 2 3 goingtobeno. j I 24 Q. You have no familiarity with that ; 2 5 term? GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI j 22 1 [ i STLCOPCB4027046 1 I know what the term is. know 2 it's a, a way of monitoring what comes out of 3 a gas chromatograph, but I'm not in a 4 technical position t o e x p 1 ain more to you . 5 Q Without -- that 's a suffici e n t 6 response. I mean, I ' m not going to qu e s t i o n 7 you about the fine p o i n t s of gas 8 chromatography. I was s i m ply wanting t o 9 establish a foundation for more general 1 0 questioning. 1 1 A . Okay. 1 2 Q. Do you know if there's any 1 3 information provided by electron capture 1 4 fingerprints which is indicative of or 1 5 relates to biodegradation? 1 6 MR. ZIMMER: Lacks foundation. He 1 7 just told you what he knew about it and 1 8 that's all he knew. 1 9 You can answer if you know. 2 0 THE WITNESS: Woul/3 you read the 2 1 question back, please? 2 2 THE COURT REPORTER: 2 3 "Q. Do you know if there's any 2 4 information provided by electron capture 2 5 fingerprints which is indicative of or GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 222 STLCOPCB4027047 * relates to biodegradation?" 2 A. I have no recollection of any 3 specifics on that. 4 MR. TALLON: Let me show you a 5 document, Doctor, which is a one-page 6 memorandum dated December 3rd, 1969, bearing 7 production number TRAN 022090, and after the 8 reporter marks that as Exhibit 299, we'll ask 9 you to take a moment and review that, please. 1 0 (Plaintiff's Deposition 1 1 Exhibit 299 marked for 1 2 identification.) 1 3 (Witness peruses said 1 4 document.) . 1 5 BY MR. TALLON: ; 16 Q. Having reviewed that document, do : I 1 7 you have any enhanced recollection with ; 1 8 respect to the relationship, if any, between 1 9 electron capture fingerprints and 2 0 biodegradation? ,. . i 2 1 A . No . 2 2 Q. Do you have any recollection, 2 3 Doctor, whether Mr. Tucker did any work on 2 4 samples with respect -- samples obtained from 2 5 National Cash Register? GOREREPORTING COMPANY -ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 223 STLCOPCB4027048 A . I have no recollection of his 2 working on any samples from National Cash > Register. 4 Q. Do you know whether National Cash 5 Register, which I will refer to as NCR, used 6 a Monsanto product? 7 A. No, I have no recollection of 8 that. 9 Q. Does it refresh your recollection 1 0 if I ask you whether Monsanto -- NCR used an 1 1 Aroclor 1242 in the manufacture of its 1 2 carbonless carbon paper? 1 3 A. It is my recollection that they 1 4 did use an Aroclor 1242-type product. 1 5 Q. Do you know whether or not the 1 6 product, the Aroclor 1242 product was used in 17 connection with NCR's carbonless carbon 1 8 paper? 1 9 A. That was my understanding. 2 0 Q. Do you have any r e,c ollection as to 2 1 whether you met with officials or 2 2 representatives of NCR to discuss 2 3 b i odegradabi1ity of Aroclor 1 2 4 2 ? 2 4 A. I personally can remember no such 2 5 meetings or contact with them. GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 224 STLCOPCB4027049 1 Q . Do you recollect whether you or 2 persons working for you did any work to 3 analyze the biodegradation characteristics of 4 Aroclor 1242 for the benefit of NCR? 5 A. I don't recall any such work. 6 MR. TALLON: Let me show you a 7 document, Doctor, that's a multipage document 8 bearing production number 0, what appear to 9 be 0001248 through 1255. I'll ask the court 1 0 reporter to mark it. 1 1 (Plaintiff's Deposition 1 2 Exhibit 300 marked for 1 3 identification.) 1 4 (Witness peruses said 1 5 document.) 1 6 BY MR. TALLON: 17 Q . Did you get a chance to review 1 8 that. Doctor? 1 9 A. Yes. 2 0 Q. Have you seen that, document 2 1 before? 2 2 A. I have no recollection of seeing 23 it . 2 4 Q. Do you have any recollection as to 2 5 whether Mr. Tucker, in 1970, did an initial GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 22 5 STLCOPCB4027050 1 biologically populated river water 2 degradation study? i A . I just don't recall that. 4 Q. Do you have any recollection of 5 learning in 1970 that Aroclor 1242 remains 6 stable in certain tests performed by your 7 group? 8 MR. ZIMMER: Lacks foundation. 9 A. I have no recall on that. 1 0 BY MR. TALLON: 1 1 Q. Doctor, do you have any 1 2 understanding as to whether or not biphenyl 1 3 is required in order to degrade PCB's? 1 4 A . No . 1 5 Q . You h a v e no understanding? 1 6 A . No unde rstanding . 1 7 Q Do you know if biphenyl occurs 1 8 naturally in the e nvironment? 1 9 A . No . 2 0 Q You do not know? ^ , 2 1 A . I do no t know. 2 2 Q Doctor , do you have any 2 3 recollect ion with respect to discussions I 2 4 having to do with use of bromines? 2 5 Brominated compounds to replace GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 226 STLCOPCB4027051 1 polychlorinated biphenyls? 2 A . I recall no such discussions. o (Discussion off the record.) 4 MR. TALLON: We're back on the 5 record. 6 BY MR. TALLON: 7 Q Doctor,. do you have knowledge a s 8 to whether or not in 1969 or 1970, Monsan t o 9 performed any river die-away studies? 1 0 A. Yes, it is my recollection that 1 1 river die away tests were performed. 1 2 Q. And for the record, would you 1 3 define what you understand to be the meaning 1 4 of the term "river die-away study"? 1 5 A . As I r e call i t , i t ' s simply t a king 1 6 water, and in s o m e c a s e s , for example , r i v e r 1 7 water, and d e t e r m i n i n g the r a t e at w hi c h 1 8 compounds in qu e s t ion or of i nterest a r e 1 9 being tested w i 1 1 d e g r a d e i n that medi u m , 2 0 without adding purposely other materials or 2 1 chemicals. 2 2 Q. Did Monsanto conduct river 2 3 die-away studies with respect to 2 4 polychlorinated biphenyls? 2 5 A. Yes, it's my recollection that GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 227 STLCOPCB4027052 1 this was done. 2 Q. Do you know who was in charge of 3 those studies? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Who? 6 A. Scott Tucker. 7 Q. And do you know over what period 8 of time those studies were conducted? 9 A. My best estimate would be 1970 to 1 0 '71. 1 1 Q. Did you have any role with respect 1 2 to those studies. Doctor? 1 3 A. No, and only as manager of that 1 4 area. 1 5 Q. Do you have any present 1 6 recollection as to the results of those . 1 7 studies? 1 8 A. I have a few, I would call vague 1 9 recollections. 2 0 Q. Could you please te.ll me what your ; 2 1 vague recollections are? i i 22 A. That the river die-away test was j i 2 3 not a very good test because of the very slow ! 2 4 rate of degradation normally taking place 25 with chlorinated biphenyl-typeproducts; slow j i j GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI ; 228 STLCOPCB4027053 1 degradation. 2 Q. What is the relationship of the 3 slow degradation to the river die-away test 4 not being a very good test? 5 A. Well, there wouldn't be enough 6 degradation with a period of time where you 7 could actually see changes over a period of 8 time, perhaps days or longer, to compare 9 different species of chlorinated biphenyls. 1 0 Q. Were those tests indicative to you 1 1 of the rate of degradation in naturally1 2 occurring water systems? 1 3 A. Not to me, but I would not be the 1 4 right one to answer that question. 1 5 Q Who would be; Mr. Tuck e r ? 1 6 A . M r . Scott Tucker. 1 7 Q D o you recollect what. if any. 1 8 conclusion M r . Tucker reached in his river 1 9 die-away studi es with respec t to the 2 0 degradation o f Aroclor 1242 or hi g h e r ? 2 1 A . A t this point in time. I do not 2 2 recall that. 2 3 MR. TALLON: Let me show you a 2 4 document that will be marked as 301. It's a 2 5 three-page document bearing production GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 229 STLCOPCB4027054 numbers TRAN 040011 through 13. 2 (Plaintiff ' s Deposition 3 Exhibit 301 marked for A identification. ) 5 (Witness peruses said 6 document.) 7 THE WITNESS: Okay. 8 BY MR. TALLON: 9 Q. Doctor, does reviewing theexhibit 1 0 before you, and particularly the paragraph 1 1 which is numbered 1, "Monsanto-USA studies," 1 2 refresh your recollection in any respect as 1 3 to the results of river die-away studies 1 4 conducted in 1970? 1 5 A. Yes, now I see this, it does help 1 6 me reflect on our earlier discussion. 1 7 Q. Do you recall having reviewed this 1 8 exhibit, the results of river die-away 1 9 studies with respect to Aroclor 1242? 20 A . No . 2 1 Q. In what respect has your 22 recollection been refreshed as a result of 2 3 reviewing this exhibit? 2 4 A. Well, you asked me if I knew what 2 5 the difference of degradation would be in the GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 230 STLCOPCB4027055 1 rive r die away test , a n d I b e 1 i e v e I 2 r e s p o n d e d that I CO u 1 d not recall that. 3 Q Mm -h m m . 4 A . Now that I r e a d this, I recall i t , 5 but that's , t h a t ' s all. 6 Q And now what d o you re call? 7 A . Just w h a t Sc o t t Tucker -- 8 pres u m a b 1 y , t h i s is out o f his la boratory and 9 his work, and h e pa r t i c ipated in this meeting 1 0 with Papageorge for this document, concluded, ; 1 1 and I guess I can't go beyond that. , 1 2 Q. You mean, are you referring to the 1 3 sentence that states, "River die-away studies 1 4 indicated Aroclor 1221 disappears, Aroclors 1 5 1242, 1248 and 1254 were undegraded"? ; 16 MR. ZIMMER: I don't think he ; 1 7 referred to a specific sentence. He j 1 8 mentioned the document. ! 19 MR. TALLON: That's why I l 2 0 mentionedit. c, ` \ \ 21 MR. ZIMMER: Okay, Doctor, let me ! 2 2 ask you again not to speculate about what Dr. 2 3 Tucker and others may have done to contribute 2 4 to this document, but please tell him your 2 5 recollection. j ij GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 231 STLCOPCB4027056 1 A. Right. Well, I think I have to 2 conclude with that that I really don't have a 3 recollection, and I'll restate the reason, 4 which its obvious, this came out of Dr. Flan 5 (Phonetic), he participated in this meeting, 6 put together this, and I really can't 7 contribute beyond that. 8 Q. So you have no recollection of the 9 conclusions of the river die-away studies - 1 0 A . No . 1 1 Q. And this document doesn't refresh 1 2 your recollection? 1 3 A . No . , 1 4 Q. Okay, what meeting are you 1 5 referringto? 16 A. Well, I presume that it was -- ; 1 7 this may have been an assumption on my part, 1 8 but the opening sentence of this says I 1 9 reviewed studies with these persons. Whether 2 0 there was a meeting or not. It don ' t know. i 21 MR. TALLON: Okay, that's fine. j j 22 MR. ZIMMER: Mr. Tallon doesn't ! I| 23 want you to guess, presume or to speculate. | 2 4 THEWITNESS: Okay. i i 25 MR. ZIMMER: He can interpret the i GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI j 232 STLCOPCB4027057 document as well. 2 THE WITNESS: Okay. 3 BY MR. TALLON: 4 Q. Doctor, were you ever part of a 5 PCB task force? 6 A . I don't recall being ever so 7 identified. 8 Q. All right. In 1970, do you know 9 approximately how much of Mr. Tucker's time 1 0 was spent on degradation studies with reflect 1 1 to P C B ' s ? 1 2 A. Relative to his total PCB efforts? 1 3 Q. Yes. 1 4 A. At least half would be my 1 5 estimate. 1 6 Q. Is that half of the total time he 1 7 worked, or half -- 1 8 A. Half of the totaltime. 1 9 Q. And whatpercent of his total time 2 0 was directed to his PCB efforts , as you -- 2 1 A. A hundred percent. 22 Q. A hundred percent? So that was, 2 3 basically, his job, is to work on the PCB 2 4 issues 2 5 Right. GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 233 STLCOPCB4027058 1 Q. And how does histime in 19 -- the 2 expenditure of his time thatyou've just 3 described compare with his, the expenditure 4 of his time in 1969? Was it different? 5 MR . ZIMMER: Calls for 6 speculation. 7 A. As I best recall, he was, in '69, 8 also full-time onPCB's. 9 BY MR . TALLON: 1 0 Q. And Mr. Tucker was hired in 1967 1 1 or -- 1 2 A. '67. 1 3 Q. ' 67 ? 1 4 A. '67. 1 5 Q. Do you have any knowledge with 1 6 respect to how much time Mr. Tucker was 1 7 spending on PCB-related studies in 1968? 1 8 A. Essentially full-time, as I 1 9 recall. 2 0 Q . And what about the.-, period or the 2 1 portion of 1967 that he was working for 2 2 Monsanto? 2 3 A. He was in the process of phasing 24 into that, with his entry intoMonsanto, and 2 5 by the end of the year, he was essentially GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 234 STLCOPCB4027059 t 1 it: e . 2 Q A f ter 1971, d id Mr. T u c k e r i. continue to w o r k or c o n t in u e to f o c u s his 4 work on PCS s t u d i e s ? 5 MR . ZIMMER: Calls for 6 speculation . 7 A . W e 11, after - 71, Scott c o n t i n u 8 to my best r e collectio n , and I'm not sure 9 how long, and other p e r s o n s , p e r h a p s , got 1 0 involved, a 1 s o . 1 1 BY MR. TALLON : 1 2 Q - W e re other P e rsons who were 1 3 reporting t o you or p e r s o n s who w ere 1 4 reporting t o persons w h o were reporting t 1 5 you, also i n v o1v e d in d e gradation work in 1 6 late Sixti e s and early S eventies? 1 7 A . Ye s . 1 8 Q C o u 1 d you i d e ntify any persons 1 9 name? 2 0 A . The only pers on t h,a t comes to 2 1 mind would b e Saeger, S - a-e-g-e-r 2 2 Q I s that Mr. S a e g e r ? 2 3 A . D r . Saeger. 2 4 Q. Dr. Saeger? And what was his job, 2 5 as best you recall it? GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 235 STLCOPCB4027060 A . He was a research chemist and he 2 was -- I'm not sure if he was assigned to i Scott at that point, but he was, to my best 4 recollection, involved with biodegradation 5 studies, work. 6 Q. Do you know if Mr., Dr. Saeger is 7 still working for Monsanto today? 8 A. As far as I know, he is. 9 Q. Other than Dr. Saeger and Mr. 1 0 Tucker, do you recollect whether there are 1 1 other persons in your group who were working 1 2 on degradation studies in the late Sixties or 1 3 early Seventies? 1 4 A . No . 1 5 Q . Are you -- 1 6 MR. ZIMMER: It's Dr. Tucker, by 1 7 the way. 1 8 BY MR. TALLON: 1 9 Q. Is it Dr. Tucker?? 20 A. It is Dr. Tucker. 2 1 Q. Are you familiar with the name 2 2 Dick Baxter? 2 3 A. Yes. 2 4 Q. And tell me what Mr. Baxter's 2 5 position was in 1971. GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 236 STLCOPCB4027061 A . As I recall, he was a manager of 2 research located at either Ruabon or Newport; 3 I believe, Ruabon. 4 Q. Did Mr. Baxter have any 5 responsibility with respect to degradation 6 studies in Europe, so far as you know? 7 A. I don't know. I don't recall. 8 MR. TALLON: Let me show you a 9 document that's going to be marked as Exhibit 1 0 Number 302, a two-page doc u m e n t . One of the 1 1 two pages be ars production number TRAN 1 2 063363, and the other does not a p p ear to b e 1 3 related, so we won't mark i t . 1 4 (The page bearing production 1 5 number TRAN 063363 was marked 1 6 as Plaintiff's Deposition 1 7 Exhibit 302 marked for 1 8 identification. ) 1 9 (Witness peruses said 20 document.) .. 2 1 THE WITNESS: Okay. 2 2 BY MR. TALLON: 2 3 Q. Does reviewing that exhibit. 2 4 Doctor, refresh your recollection in any 2 5 respect as to whether or not Mr. Baxter was GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 237 STLCOPCB4027062 2 3 4 5. 6 !' 7: 8 ' !i 9 ii 1 0 ! 1 1 ji 12 ; 13 ; l> 1 4 jj 11 15 i1 i' 1 6 Ii 17 1 1 18 19 20 | j 21 (1 I i 22 i : 23 i 2 4 !; ji 25 involved in degradation work in the early Seventies? A . No, it does not. Q. Do you recognize the handwriting that appears on the bottom of that one-page exhibit? A. No, I cannot identify that writing. Q. Is Dr. Saeger's first name Victor? A. Yes, it is. Q. Was he known as Vic? A. Vic; correct. Q. Doctor, do you know whether b i p h e n y 1 - a d a p t e 1 organisms have any effect on the degradation of PCB's? A . No. Q Do you recall any work done by Monsanto in the 1 ate Six t i e s or Seventi e s having to d o with the e f f e c t of bacteri a 1 organisms o n the degradat ion <of ` P CB s ? A . We -- Comment further on b a c t e r i a 1 organisms MR . TALLON: L e t me show you a document that may or may not be of assistance. GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 238 STLCOPCB4027063 1 We'll mark this as 303. It's a 2 one-page document bearing production number 3 TRAN 060457. 4 (Plaintiff's Deposition 5 Exhibit 303 marked for 6 identification.) 7 (Witness peruses said 8 document . ) 9 BY MR. TALLON: 1 0 Q Have you read that document? 1 1 A . Yes. 1 2 Q Have you ever seen that before? 1 3 A . I don ' t r e m e m b e r . 1 4 Q Does reviewing that document 1 5 refresh your recollection in any respect as 1 6 to whether there is any relationship between 1 7 bipheny1-adapte1 organisms and the 1 8 degradation of PCB's? 1 9 A . No . 2 0 Q. Are you familiar with the term 2 1 "Trigger substrate" as it relates to bio -- 2 2 or, to degradation of PCB's? 2 3 A . No . 24 MR. TALLON: Let me show you a 2 5 document. Doctor, which we'll mark as Exhibit GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 239 STLCOPCB4027064 a Kultipage document bearing production 2 numbers BIR 007951 through 7962. 3 (Plaintiff's Deposition 4 Exhibit 304 marked for 5 identification.) 6 BY MR. TALLON: 7 Q. The question, Doctor, will 8 be whether you have seen this document 9 il ij 10 !' before. (Witness peruses said 111: document.) 12 i A. I don't recall seeing this. 13 ; Q . Could you look at Page 4 of that 14 || j! 15 !: document? I'm referring now to the numbers which appear at the top of the memorandum 16 jj pages. There's a notation under the caption 17 jl "Research: Biodegradation Studies -- 18 !: Ruabon , " referring to a biphenyl degrading 19 I, culture C2," do you have any knowledge or 20 ! information as to what biphe ivy 1 degrading 21 culture C2 is referring to there? 22 j I i A. No. None. 23 II it 24 i! Q. Were biodegradation studies being . conducted by the European offices of Monsanto h 2 5 l! contemporaneously with work going on in St. 1 GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST . LOUIS, MISSOURI 240 STLCOPCB4027065 J. Louis in the late Sixties and early 2 Seventies? 3 A. It's my recollection that some 4 work was being done at the Ruabon facility, 5 with their biodegradation facility. That's 6 all I recall. 7 Q Do you have any recoil e c t i o n a s t o 8 who was involved in sue h work? 9 A . I can' t come up with a name. n o . 1 0 Q Do you have any recoil e c t i o n a s t o 1 1 whether that work was independent of or 1 2 coordinated with the work underway in St. 1 3 Louis? ; 1 4 A. I can't recall that. , 1 5 Q. Do you recall or have any 1 6 recollection whether, in connection with 17 biodegradation studies being performed in the 1 8 United States, biodegradation field tests 19 were ever conducted? And by field tests, I . 2 0 mean outside the laboratory. c . j 2 1 A. I don't recall any field tests. 2 2 MR. TALLON: Let me show you a 2 3 document. Doctor, which we'll mark as the 2 4 next exhibit. This is a multipage document 2 5 bearing production numbers 0007267 through GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 241 STLCOPCB4027066 ~ r- rJ* *71 u r, oZ . 2 (Plaintiff ' s Deposition 3 Exhibit 305 marked for 4 identification. ) 5 (Witness peruses said 6 document . ) 7 BY MR. TALLON: 8 Q. Did you get a chance to review 9 that document? 1 0 A . Yes. 1 1 Q. Do you recollect ever having seen 1 2 that before? 1 3 A . I don' t recall s e e i n g t h i 1 4 Q . Do you know w h e t h e r t h ere 1 5 R . A . L i d g e t t e wo rking for M o n s a n t o 1 6 A. Yes. 1 7 Q. And what was Mr. Lidgette ' s 1 8 position in 1971? 1 9 A. He was laboratory supervisor in 2 0 charge of, including analytic^l^type work at 2 1 Ruabon . 2 2 Q. Could you know if Mr. Lidgette is 2 3 still living today? 2 4 A. Yes, he is. 2 5 Q. Is he retired? GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 242 STLCOPCB4027067 t>\ . Yes. Q Do you know wher e he is? 7 A . Yes. 4 Q Where? 5 A . It's near -- and don' t as k me to 6 s p ell this -- Llangollen in North W a les, 7 w h i c h is, I would guess, fi f t e e n , t e n , 8 f i f t e e n mi les from the Ruab on pi ant. 9 Q And do you know w h e t h e r 1 0 H . A . Vodd en, V-o-d-d-e-n, was w o r k i n g for 1 1 Mo n s a n t o i n 1971? 1 2 A . Yes. 1 3 Q And what was his p o s i t i o n as you 1 4 b e s t know it? 1 5 A . As I best recall , h e was involved 1 6 w i t h p r o c e ss researching of f u n c t i o n a 1 1 7 f 1 uid-type products, perhap s i n c ludi n g A r o 1 8 I ' 11 s t r i k e that. Period. 1 9 Q Do you know wher e he was 2 0 physically located in 1971 f o% h is o f f i c e ? 2 1 A . Ruabon . 2 2 Q. Do you know if he is still living 2 3 today? 2 4 A. No, I don't. 2 5 Q. And where was he when you last GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 243 STLCOPCB4027068 new his whereabouts? A. At Ruabon twenty years ago. 3 Q . And did you know a P. E. Gilbert 4 working for Monsanto in 1971? 5 A . I can't recall Mr. Gilbert. 6 Q W i thout regard to y our ability 7 recollect i n g ever having seen t h i s particular 8 document, d o you have any reco lie c t i o n of 9 work done by Lidgette and Vodd e n having to do 1 0 with the d e g r adation of Aroclo r s 1242 and 1 1 10 16 p 1 2 A . No 1 3 Q Do you have any rec oil ection of 1 4 work done by Lidgette and Vodd e n having to do 1 5 with biphenyl -degrading organi sms C 2 and C3? 1 6 A . No 1 7 Q . Do you know what a 1 8 b i p h e n y 1 - d e g r ading organism C2 i s 1 9 A . No . 2 0 Q. And would it, therefore, follow 2 1 that you don't know what a bipheny1-degrading 2 2 organism C3 is? 2 3 A. Correct. 2 4 Q. As a chemist, do youknow if C2 2 5 refers to a particular compound? GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 244 STLCOPCB4027069 1 o 3 4 5 6 7 8; 9 i; I 10 |; 11 ; 12 13 ; 14 ; I 15 ! 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A I can't answer that . When they use this in connection with bio-information studies, I'm not familiar with their terminology. Q . Okay. Doctor, do you recollect ever having attended a meeting in 1970 with representatives of General Electric? A . No . MR. TALLON: Let me show you a : document which we'll mark as the next exhibit ' in order. That is a multipage document bearing production numbers TRAN 023509 through 023518. (Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit 306 marked for ; identification.) , (Witness peruses said j document.) BY MR. TALLON: Q. Does reviewing Ex h,i bit 306 refresh i your recollection in any respect, Doctor, as to whether you attended a meeting with representatives of General Electric in 1970? A. I can't recall anything about such- I a meeting. GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 245 STLCOPCB4027070 1 Q. Do you have any recollec t i o n , Doctor, of ever having met with any customers 3 o f Monsanto to discuss the biodegra dability 4 o f Aroclor 1242? 5 A . I can't recall where I personally 6 participated with that. 7 Q. Does the term Aroclor 1242-B have 8 any meaning to you? 9 A . No . 1 0 Q. Does the term MCS 1016 have any 1 1 meaning to you? 1 2 A . I -- the name of the te r m is 1 3 familiar . I recall that name. 1 4 Q Do you have anymore rec ollection 1 5 than simply of the name? 1 6 A . It's my best recollecti on that was 1 7 a, an exper imental-type product as a 1 8 potential r eplacement for Aroclor 1 2 4 2. 1 9 Q Did you personally have any 2 0 responsibil ity for the testi rvg o f MCS 1016? 2 1 A . Not that I recall. 2 2 Q Do you know whether MCS 1016 was 2 3 used as a r eplacement for Aroclor 1242 in any 2 4 respect? 2 5 A . No . GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 246 STLCOPCB4027071 *X Q. You do not know? A . I do not know. 3 Q. Do you know whether Mr. Tucker or 4 anyone working for you conducted tests with 5 respect to the biodegradability of MCS 1016? 6 A. I can't recall anything on that. 7 Q. Are you familiar with a man by the 8 name of J. H. Mainprize? 9 A. Yes. 1 0 (Discussion off the record) 1 1 BY MR. TALLON: 1 2 Q. You said you did know a Mr. 1 3 Mainprize? 1 4 A. I think I do. I think I can, I 1 5 recall who Mainprize was. 1 6 Q. What do you recall? 1 7 A. I couldn't have thought of the 1 8 name myself, but now that I hear it, it's my 1 9 best recollection he was involved with or 2 0 possibly supervised the biod e^g radability-type 2 1 functions at Ruabon. 2 2 Q. All right, let me ask you if you 2 3 can identify the document that we will mark 2 4 as the next exhibit, a multipage document 2 5 bearing two series of production numbers. GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 247 STLCOPCB4027072 1 The first is 0001966, and that runs through <. 0002006, attached to pages TRAN 066313 and 3 066312. 4 (Plaintiff's Deposition 5 Exhibit 307 marked for 6 identification.) 7 (Witness peruses said 8 document . ) 9 BY MR. TALLON: 1 0 Q. Have you seen that before, Doctor? 1 1 A. I have no recollection of this 1 2 report at all. 1 3 Q . D o es reviewing t h a t e x h i bit 1 4 r e f r e s h your recollection i n any r e s p e c t as 1 5 to wo r k done on the biodegrad a t i o n of Aroclor 16 1242 in comparisonwith potentialsubstitute ; 1 7 products? ; 1 8 A. No. : 1 9 Q. Do you know whether MCS 1016 2 0 replaced Aroclor 1242in any product? ! 2 1 A . No. 2 2 Q . You do not know whether or not it j 2 3 did? i 2 4 A. I did not know that. [ II 25 Q. Do you recollect everhaving been ! GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 248 STLCOPCB4027073 1 a participant in any discussion or o communication in which the use of MCS 1016 as 3 a replacement for Aroclor 1242 was a subject? 4 A . No . 5 MR. TALLON: Let me show you a 6 document bearing production numbers TRAN 7 042387 through 389, which we will mark as the 8 next exhibit. 9 (Plaintiff's Deposition > 10 Exhibit 308 marked for 1 11 identification.) : 1 2 (Witness peruses said 1 3 document.) 1 4 BY MR .TALLON: 1 5 Q. Did you review that. Doctor? ' i I j 1 6 A. Ye s . | I 17 Q. Does review of that document i 18 refresh yourrecollection in any respect as j 1 9 to whether you had any participation in i i 2 0 discussions or communications.regarding the 2 1 substitution of MCS 1016 for Aroclor 1242? 2 2 A . No . 2 3 Q. In particular, does reference to 2 4 the paragraph numbered 2 on Page 1 under 25 "Biodegradation Studies" enhance your . GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 2 49 ^ STLCOPCB4027074 recollection it that regard? A . No. 2 MR. TALLON : Let's mark as the 4 next exhibit a one-page document bearing 5 production number TRAN 009721. 6 (Plaintiff's Deposition 7 Exhibit 309 marked for 8 identification. ) 9 MR. TALLON: Please review that. 1 0 (Witness peruses said 1 1 document.) 1 2 (Plaintiff's Deposition 1 3 Exhibit 310 marked for 1 4 identification.) 1 5 BY MR. TALLON: 16 Q. Did you ever see that document : 1 7 before,Doctor? : 1 8 A. No. I don't recall this document. 1 9 Q. Do you recall planning for a 2 0 meeting with representatives pf.NCR? 2 1 A. I have no recollection of that. 2 2 Q. Let me show you a document that j j j j 2 3 the court reporter has now marked as the next 24 exhibit, Exhibit 310, and ask you whether a !; 2 5 review of this document enhances your ; | i GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI j 250 STLCOPCB4027075 r e c c 1 1 e c t i c n X Tl any respect with regar d to 2 meeting or m e e t ings conducte d between M o n s a n t o and r e presentatives of NCR. 4 JA. . No ' I can't, I ca n't recall 5 anything out o f this. 6 Q . D o Y ou recollect, Doctor, e v e r 7 meeting with r e presentatives of Westin g h o u s 8 in 1970 t o d*i s c uss PCB's? 9 A . I t 1 s my recollect ion there was a 10 meeting with W e stinghouse . I can't re call 1 1 p a r t i c i pants , o r time frame, or anythi ng . 12 MR TALLON: Let me show yo u a 1 3 documen t that b ears producti on number 115 4 1 4 and w hi c h we w i 11 mark as th e next exh i b i t . 1 5 (Plaintiff ' s Depositio n 1 6 Exhibit 311 marked for 1 7 identificati on.) 1 8 BY MR . TALLON : 1 9 Q . I a s k you to take a look at that 2 0 and see if r e vi ewing it refr e^s hgs your 2 1 r e c o 11 e c t i o n i n any respect as to a me e t i n g 2 2 with We stinghou s e . 2 3 (Witness peruses said 2 4 document.) 2 5 BY MR. TALLON: GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 251 STLCOPCB4027076 X Q . Does review of that exhibit 2 refresh your recollection in any respect -- 3 A . No . 4 Q. -- about the meeting with 5 Westinghouse? 6 A. (Witness shakes head in negative 7 manner.) 8 Q. Do you recall anything about any 9 meeting with Westinghou se other than that one 1 0 occurred? 1 1 A . No . 1 2 Q. Doctor, are you familiar with a 1 3 Monsanto product known as Aroclor 5460? 14 A. I recall the terminology, Aroclor , 15 5460. That much I reca 11, as ^ a Monsanto ' l 1 6 product . I 1 7 Q. Do you know if Aroclor 5460 was a 1 8 chlorinated terphenyl? 1 9 A. That's my re collection, a 2 0 chlorinated polyterphen y 1 , p r^o b a b 1 y ; 2 1 terphenyl . ! ti I i | 22 Q. Do you have any understanding as j i 2 3 to whether Aroclor, or excuse me, yes, ! 2 4 whether Aroclor 5460 contained any 2 5 chlorinated biphenyls? j I1 f i GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 252 STLCOPCB4027077 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 6 jj ii 1 7 jl 18 jt 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. I don't recall. MR. TALLON: Well, let me show you a document, a two-page document bearing production numbers TRAN 058001 and 002. (Plaintiff's Deposition Exhibit 312 marked for identification.) (Witness peruses said document.) BY MR. TALLON: Q. Did you review that.Doctor? A . Yes. Q. Does your review of Exhibit 312 refresh your recollection in any respect as to whether Aroclor 5460 was composed in part of chlorinated biphenyls? A . No . Q Doctor, do you recall ever attempting to determine a test method determining chlorinated biphenyl content of Aroclor 5460? A . No. Q. Do you recollect whether anyone in your group did so? A. I have no recollection of that. GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 253 STLCOPCB4027078 1 Q . Just for the sake of clarity, do you have an understanding one way or the 3 other as to whether Aroclor 5460 was composed 4 in part of polychlorinated biphenyls? 5 A. I don't know that. 6 MR. TALLON: Okay. 7 Why don't we take a two-minute 8 break. 9 (Recess) 1 0 BY MR. TALLON: ' 1 1 Q. Doctor, are you familiar with the 1 2 term "Semi-continuous activated sludge test? 1 3 A . Ye s . ; 14 Q. And can you state for the record ; 1 5 your understanding of that phrase? i! 16 A. It's a test that is designed to i i 17 simulate a secondary sewerage disposal plant j 1 8 treatment where microorganisms in the test ! 1 9 are used along with certain nutrients to show | ii 2 0 degradation of tested materials,under 2 1 controlled conditions with that experimental 2 2 parameter . 2 3 Q. Did someone in your group perform semi-continuous activated sludge tests with j 24 2 5 respect to PCB degradation in the late GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 254 STLCOPCB4027079 1 Sixties or early Seventies? 2 A . Yes. 3 Q . Who? 4 A. Well, this would have been Scott 5 Tucker, Victor Saeger, primarily. 6 MR. TALLON: Let me show you a 7 document. Doctor, that bears production 8 numbers 3485 and 3486, and we'll mark that as . 9 Exhibit 313. 10 (Plaintiff's Deposition ; 11 Exhibit 313 marked for i 1 2 identification.) 1 3 BY MR. TALLON: ; 14 Q. Can you identify the document? . 15 (Witness peruses said t 1 6 document.) ; 17 A . 0kay . i ! 18 Q. Can you identify the document? ; 1 9 A. I don't recall this correspondence , 2 0 orthedocument. 2 1 Q. Do you have any recollection as to 2 2 the results of semi-continuous activated 2 3 sludge tests and river water die-awaytests 2 4 as of June 1970? 2 5 A . No. GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 255 STLCOPCB4027080 1_ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ! 11 j 12 i 13 ' 1 4 jl I 15 | ij 16 | j 1 7 ji 1 8 I! 1 9 i; 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Do you have any recollection whether early results from such tests indicated that a major number of the two chlorine and three chlorine isomers degrade under certain conditions? A. What I remember from the test is, you could show more rapid biodegradabi1ity of the 1ower-ch1orinated isomers of PCB's relative to the higher-ch1orinated isomers. I don ' t recall more than that. and I ' m not sure what time frame t h a t work was d one in Q . By lower c h 1 o r i n a t e d , are you referring to two chlorine and three chlorine isomers? A. Yes, and also three and four. Q. And is it your recollection that the five, six and higher chlorine isomers did not degrade to the same extent or at the same rate as the lower chlorinated isomers? A . Yes. ,, Q. Do you have any recollection as to when you acquired that information ? A . No, I do not. Q Do you recall. Doctor, ever doing any work to determine whether PCB' s were GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 2 56 STLCOPCB4027081 1 present in Monsanto food or medicine 2 products ? 3 A . No . 4 MR. TALLON: Let me show you a 5 document which we'll mark as the next 6 exhibit, bearing production number TRAN 7 021409. 8 (Plaintiff's Deposition 9 Exhibit 314 marked for 1 0 identification.) 1 1 (Witness peruses said 1 2 document . ) 1 3 A. Okay, I don't recall generating 1 4 this document, but -- 1 5 BY MR. TALLON: 1 6 Q. Do you know what cresy1dipheny1 1 7 phosphate is? 1 8 A. I believe it's an additive used in 1 9 some Monsanto products. 2 0 Q. Do you know what tjie , purpose of 2 1 the additive is? 2 2 MR. ZIMMER: In which produc t ? 2 3 MR. TALLON: I don't know. I'll 2 4 find out from the doctor what it is. 2 5 A. No, I really don't know the GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 2 57 STLCOPCB4027082 purpose of it as an additive. 2 BY MR. TALLON: 3 Q. Do you know what saccharin is? 4 A . Yes. 5 Q It's a sweetener; correct? 6 A . Correct. 7 Q And do you know what Santicizer 8 3 3 4 F is? 9 A . No, I do not. 1 0 Do you know what Santicizer 711 1 1 IS: 12 13 14 ! 15 i Q that is? A. No . Santicizer 160, do you know what That's a plasticizer product. And 16 1 7 i;i!i; i1 ;j 18 I. 19 i 20 21 I would assume the other Santicizers are plasticizer products. Q. And do you know what Vanillin is? A. Yes. Q What is A . That's a synthetic vanilla product i j 2 2 produced by Monsan t o . 2 3 Q Do you know for what use that 2 4 product s put to? 25 J A . F1 avor i ngs . GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 258 STLCOPCB4027083 r. x; Having reviewed this list. d o you have any enhanced recollection of tes ting for 3 PCB's in certain Monsanto products? 4 A . I have no recollection. 5 Q Do you have any recollecti o n , 6 Doctor of ever being told by Mr. -- Dr. 7 Tucker that he had found PCB's in dishwasher 8 detergents? 9 A . No . 1 0 Q. Do you have any specific 1 1 recollection, Doctor, of Dr. Tucker ever 1 2 telling you that he had found Aroclor 1242 1 3 present in dishwasher detergents? 1 4 A. No, I don't recall that. 1 5 MR. TALLON: Let me show you a 1 6 document that we'll mark as Exhibit 315, 17 bearing production number TRAN 023044, and 1 8 ask you to take a moment and review it. 1 9 (Plaintiff's Deposition 2 0 Exhibit 315 marked for 2 1 identification.) 2 2 (Witness peruses said 2 3 document . ) 2 4 BY MR. TALLON: 2 5 Q. Have you reviewed it? GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 259 STLCOPCB4027084 X A . i es . 2 Q . Does reviewing it, or has 3 reviewing it refreshed your recollection in 4 any respect about any work done by Dr. Tucker 5 in connection with identifying PCB's in 6 dishwasher detergents? 7 A . No. 8 Q. Do you recollectever having had 9 discussions with Pap -- Dr. Tucker about the 1 0 presence of PCB's in household products of 1 1 any kind? 1 2 A . No . 1 3 Q. Do you recollect ever having had 1 4 any discussions with Mr. Papageorge abou t the 1 5 p r e sence of PCB'' s in household products o f 1 6 any type? 1 7 A . No . 1 8 Q. Doctor, does thehandwritten 1 9 notation in the upper right-hand corner of 2 0 this exhibit that appears to say "Aroclor 2 1 SP," do you see that? 2 2 A . Yes. 2 3 Q . Can you identify that handwriting? 2 4 A. It looks like it could be mine. 2 5 Q. Did you have a file denominated GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 260 STLCOPCB4027085 1 X "Aroclor SP" in 1972? 2 A. If you are asking what "SP" means, 3 I think I would have had a file -- at that 4 time, I think the business unit was called, 5 perhaps, Spec ialty Produ c t s That would be 6 Aroclor , p e r h aps, in the s p 7 file. That's about as f a r 8 it. 9 Q D i d you keep f i 1 1 0 in 1972? 1 1 A . M m -h m m, yes. 1 2 Q D i d you have any 1 3 related parti cularly to t e s 1 4 to PCB's ? 1 5 A . No separate f i 1 e 1 6 products , e t cetera; tha t I 1 7 Q Do you recoil e c t 1 8 received written reports o f 1 9 to PCB's, where you filed such reports? 20 THE WITNESS: Woul^ you read that 2 1 back, please? 2 2 THE COURT REPORTER: 2 3 " Q . Do you recollect whether, if 2 4 youreceived written reports of studies 2 5 relating to PCB's, where you filed such GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST . LOUIS , MISSOURI 26 1 STLCOPCB4027086 reports?" 2 No . I don't recall t h a t . 3 MR . TALLON: All right, thank you. 4 MR . ZIMMER: Thank you, Doctor . 5 THE WITNESS : Thank you 6 (Whereupon, at 1 0 : 45 a . m . , 7 the deposition was 8 concluded. ) 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MIS SOURI 262 STLCOPCB4027087 COMES NOW THE WITNESS, ROBERT Z ELLIS KELLER, and having read the foregoing 3 transcript of the deposition taken on the 4 11th and 12th days of June, 1992, 5 acknowledges by signature hereto that it is a 6 true and accurate transcript of the testimony 7 given on the date hereinabove mentioned. 8 9 10 1 1 ROBERT ELLIS KELLER 12 13 1 4 Subscribed and sworn to before me 1 5 thisday of, 1 9 9 2. 16 1 7 My Commission expires : 18 19 20 21 2 2 Notary Public 23 24 25 GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 263 STLCOPCB4027088 <1 STATE OF MIS SOURI ) 2 SS : ) 3 CITY OF ST. LOUIS ) 4 I J. Bryan Jordan, notary public 5 in and for the State of Missouri, duly 6 commissioned, qualified and authorized to 7 administer oaths and to certify depositions, 8 do hereby certify that pursuant to agreement 9 in the civil cause now pending and , 1 0 undetermined in the Supeiror Court of the i 1 1 State of California, to be used in the trial 1 2 of said cause in said court, I was attended 1 3 at the offices of Bryan, Cave, McPheeters & 1 4 McRoberts, in the City of St. Louis, State of 1 5 Missouri, by the aforesaid witness and by the 1 6 aforesaid attorneys, on the 11th and 12th 1 7 days of June, 1992. j i i i 1 8 The said witness, being of sound 1 9 mind and being by me first carefully examined 20 and duly cautioned and sworn o .testify the | 2 1 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 2 2 truth in the case aforesaid, thereupon 2 3 testified as is shown in the foregoing 2 4 transcript, said testimony being by me 1 j 2 5 reported in shorthand and caused to be GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 264 STLCOPCB4027089 1 transcribe, 3 into typewriting, and that the 2 foregoing pages correctly set forth the 3 testimony of the aforementioned witness, 4 together with the questions propounded by 5 counsel and remarks and objections thereto, 6 and is in all respects a full, true, correct 7 and complete transcript of the questions 8 propounded to and the answers given by said 9 witness; that signature of the deponent was 1 0 not waived by agreement of counsel. 1 1 I further certify that I am not of 1 2 counsel or attorney for either of the parties 1 3 to said suit, not related to nor interested 1 4 in any of the parties or their attorneys. 1 5 Witness my hand and notarial seal 1 6 at St. Louis, Missouri, this JSiL day of 1 7 ______ ' 1 9 9 2. 1 8 My commission expires July 20, 1 9 1 9 9 4. 20 21 22 2 3 Notary Public in and for the 2 4 State of Missouri 25 GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 265 STLCOPCB4027090