Document DG7RMrk3pdypYnBX4BVqz9vjN

22 1 A. We were c o n c e r n e d w i t h the e n g i n e e r i n g at our 2 f a c i l i t i e s for m a n u f a c t u r i n g c h e m i c a l a g e n t s and3 developing those chemical agents into munitions. 4 Q. A n d y o u m e n t i o n e d b e f o r e t h e r e w e r e a 5 .number of facilities. Pine Bluff, Rocky Mountain and 6 the Newport Ammo Plant. Were there any others that 7 you were involved with in this p e r io d other than 8 those three? 9 A. D u r i n g that p e r i o d for ,a s h o r t time, F o r t 1 0 Detric k also came under me, I would guess for a 11 p e r i o d of no m o r e than a year, s o m e of the 12 engineering that they were doing. 13 Q. Do you k n o w w h a t that e n g i n e e r i n g 14 i n v o 1v ed ? 15 A. S i m i l a r l y , d e v e l o p i n g m a n u f a c t u r i n g p r o c e s s e s 16 for biological agents and filling them into 17 mun it io n s . 18 Q. Do you k n o w w h a t b i o l o g i c a l a g e n t s that 1 9 Fort Detrick was working on during this period? 2 0 A. I f o r g e t w h a t they were' s p e c i f i c a l l y at this 21 time. As I say, I was only i n v o l v e d for m a y b e a 22 six-month period and I just don't recall 23 specifically what materials they were involved with. 24 Q. W e r e you i n v o l v e d wi-th a p a r t i c u l a r 25 o r g a n i z a t i o n at Fort Detrick? 23 1 A. Yes, t h e r e w a s a B i o l o g i c a l P l a n t s and 2 Processes Branch that came under me for that 3 six-month period. 4 Q. Do y o u k n o w w h o was the h e a d of that 5 Biological Plants and Process Division? 6 A. A m a n . n a m e d C l a r k C o t t r e l l , C - o - t - t - r - e - 1 - 1 . 7 Q. Do y o u k n o w t h e n a m e s of any of the o t h e r a 8 p e o p l e ajt F o r t D e t r i c k t h a t you w o u l d h a v e d e a l t 9 wi th ? 1 0 A. Well, t h e r e w e r e e n g i n e e r s w i t h i n his b r a n c h , I' 11 remember a few of them. 1-2 Q. W h o w o u l d t h e y be? 1 3 A. T h e r e w a s a m a n n a m e d D w i g h t M c K i n n e y . I d o n ' t 14 r em e m b e r any m o r e - s p e c i f i c names. 15 Q. Did y o u h a v e a n y d e a l i n g s w i t h Dr. 16 M i n a r i k , C h a r l e s M i n a r i k , at Fort D e t r i c k ? 1 7 A. Yes, b u t n o t at t h a t p e r i o d . 18 Q. H o w a b o u t R o b e r t D a r r o w ? 19 A. Yes. W e l l , yes, I t h i n k it was d u r i n g t h a t 20 period,, during that period. 21 Q. W i t h D a r r o w ? 22 A. D a r r o w and w i t h M i n a r i k . M i n a r i k was the h e a d 23 of C r o p s D i v i s i o n at Fo r t D e t r i c k . 24 C W h a t w e r e the n a m e s -- 25 A . N o w -- 24' 1 Q . I'm sorry. 2 A. I w a s a b o u t to say t h a t we d i d n ' t h a v e e x a c t l y 3 the same relationship with them because the 4 materials that they were concerned with were 5 ma n u f a c t u r e d in i n d us tr y whereas most of the 6 materials that I was concerned with were 7 m a n u f a c t u r e d in g o v e r n m e n t facilities. 8 Q. W h a t w e r e the n a t u r e of y o u r d e a l i n g s 9 with Dr. Minarik? 10 A. M i n a r i k w a s the h e a d of C r o p s D i v i s i o n and my 11 e n g i n e e r s r e v i e w e d t h e i r s p e c i f i c a t i o n s , t h e i r 12 p u r c h a s e d e s c r i p t i o n s d u r i n g that p e r i o d and then 13 later we got involved with herbicide Orange. 14 Q. Now, w h e n y o u say y o u r e n g i n e e r s , did you 15 pe rso nal ly get involve d in it? 16 A . W e 11, I w o u l d sign off on d o c u m e n t s of 17 transmission but my engineers would get into the 18 details of revie wi ng some of the specifications, and 19 there was another group at Edgewood that had 20 responsibility for publishing those specifications 21 and we w o u l d e s s e n t i a l l y r e v i e w t h e m and sign off on 22 them during that p e r i o d . 23 Q . Who would actually write those 24 25 A . The people from Fort Det ric k would provide 25 1 input and t h e y 'd be p h y s i c a l l y w r i t t e n b y t h i s 2 specification group with input from all of the 3 concerned organizations. 4 Q. A f t e r t h e y w e r e w r i t t e n , w h a t w o u l d 4 5 h a p p e n to them? 6 A. T h e y w o u l d be p u t t o g e t h e r i n i t i a l l y in a d r a f t 7 form and then they wou ld be cir cul at ed to what other a o r g a n i z a t i o n s may h a ve had an inte re st in them 9 including industry; for example, the herbicide 1 0 O r a n g e s p e c i f i c a t i o n s in that p e r i o d m i g h t h a v e been 11 sent to M o n s a n t o or Do w or c o m p a n i e s that 12 m a n u f a c t u r e d h e r b i c i d e O r a n g e for t h e i r c o m m e n t s on 13 the p u r c h a s e d e s c r i p t i o n or s p e c i f i c a t i o n . 14 MR. G O R M A N : E x c u s e me. C o u n s e l o r , is 15 this ail d u r i n g the s i x - m o n t h p e r i o d that the 16 w i t n e s s has m e n t i o n e d t h a t he did at D e t r i c k ? 17 Q. Are we t a l k i n g a b o u t h e r e t h i s s i x - m o n t h 18 p e r i o d or so or -- 19 A. No, I'm t a l k i n g a b o u t 1962 to 1966 in g e n e r a l . 2 0 Vie w e r e r e v i e w i n g s p e c i f i c a t i o n s and p u r c h a s e 21 d e s c r i p t i o n s d u r i n g th a t w h o l e p e r i o d , s p e c i f i c a l l y 2 2 Q. F r o m D e t r i c k ? 23 A. F r o m D e t r i c k as w e l l , yes, sir. 24 MR. G O R M A N : T h i s is w h e r e I 'm b e i n g 25 m i s l e d , you see. 26 1 Q. Is this an a d d i t i o n to the s i x - m o n t h 2 period when part of Detrick actually came under your 3 command ? 4 A. D u r i n g t h a t s i x - m o n t h p e r i o d , t h e i r e n g i n e e r i n g 5 group out there that came under me, they were 6 responsible for the design of facilities to make 7 biological agents. That was one responsibility, but 8 during that 1962 to 1966 period, any military 9 specifications or purchase descriptions that went 10 out were rev i e w ed by our group as well as other 11 g r o u p s w i t h i n the Army, p o s s i b l y the A i r F o r c e , if 12 they w e r e i n t e r e s t e d , and as I m e n t i o n e d , ev e n 13 c o m m e n t s f r o m i n d u s t r y , if t h e y w e r e i n t e r e s t e d . 14 Q. Now, y o u ' v e i n d i c a t e d that y o u w o u l d s i g n 15 off on these; is that c o r r e c t ? 16 A . Yes. 17 Q. In the p r o c e s s of s i g n i n g o f f on them, 18 would you read them and review them y ou r s e l f 19 p e r s o n a l l y ? 20 A . To some degree, yes. 21 Q. How, h a d they b e e n r e v i e w e d b y o t h e r s in 22 your se c t i o n prior to t heir a r r i v i n g at y o u r desk? 23 A . Yes, r i gh t . 24 0. Now, y o u ' v e i n d i c a t e d , just so t h a t w e ' r e 25 clear on this, that this w o u l d h a v e b e e n d u r i n g the 35 1 previously mentioned? 2 A . None other than reviewing specifications and 3 purchase descriptions until December of 1966. 4 Q. D u r i n g t h a t time, you i n d i c a t e d b e f o r e 5 that the herbicide materials were being made by 6 c i v i l i a n m a n u f a c t u r i n g c o m p a n i e s as a g a i n s t E d g e w o o d 7 A r s e n a l ; is that c o r r e c t ? 8 A . Yes. o Q. Vie r e y o u f a m i l i a r w i t h t h e p r o c e s s e s u s e d 1 0 by these c i v i l i a n m a n u f a c t u r e r s for h e r b i c i d e s ? 1 1 A. N e t p r i o r to D e c e m b e r of 1966. 1 2 Q. W e r e p e o p l e w i t h i n y o u r s e c t i o n f a m i l i a r 1 3 with the processes? 1 4 MR. GORMAN: Objection. 1 5 A. I ' m ju s t s p e c u l a t i n g , b u t I d o n ' t t h i n k so. 16 Q . What was the purpose of the function of \ 1 7 the r e v i e w that you did on the s p e c i f i c a t i o n s then? 1 S A. It w a s p r i m a r i l y to tak e a l o o k at t h e m to see 19 that the y w e r e f o r m a t t e d c o r r e c t l y , p o s s i b l y as sort 20 cf an i n d e p e n d e n t group w i t h i n the Arm y to take 21 a n o t h e r shot at t h e m to see w h e t h e r t h e y w e r e 22 c o m p l e t e , s e e t h a t s o m e o f t h e o t h e r t h i n g s , l o t t i n g , 23 s a m p l i n g p r o c e d u r e s w e r e s t a n d a r d w i t h w h a t we had 24 in c u r o t h e r s p e c i f i c a t i o n s . 25 3?. H o w a b o u t t e s t i n g p r o c e d u r e s ? w aga and soinetli CPrtifi<=rl c h /^ rth /n n H r a n n H n r r 36 1 A W e l l , I ' m a l i t t l e u n c e r t a i n t h e r e . .1 w o u l d 2 t h i n k -- for e x a m p l e , w h a t we w o u l d do', if we w e r e 3 r e v ie w in g a specification we would get together, the 4 interested parties, somebody from our analytical 5 group, somebody from the engineering group, somebody 6 from the specifications group, somebody from the 7 d o c u m e n t s group, s o m e b o d y from Fort D e t r i c k if it 8 was one of their items and they would collectively 9 come up w i t h a p o s i t i o n wh i c h went into the 10 development of these documents, and once they 11 r e a c h e d the c o o r d i n a t e d p o s i t i o n , t h e y w e r e then 1 2 circul ate d, as I menti oned before, to industry, to 13 the Ai r F o r c e , w h o e v e r m i g h t be i n v o l v e d w i t h an 14 item. 15 MR. G O R M A N : I m o v e to s t r i k e the a n s w e r 16 as not r e s p o n s i v e . 17 D o n ' t m i n d that at all. 18 Q. Do y o u r e c a l l w h i c h h e r b i c i d e 19 s p e c i f i c a t i o n s yo u r e v i e w e d d u r i n g the p e r i o d of 20 1962 to 1966? 21 A. W e l l , I r e c a l l b e c a u s e I've seen t h e s e 22 d o c u m e n t s w i t h i n the last couple weeks. T h e y 've 23 b e e n p r e s e n t e d to me to review, but the 24 s p e c i f i c a t i o n for 2,4-D, the s p e c i f i c a t i o n for 25 2 , 4 , 5-T, the p u r c h a s e d e s c r i p t i o n for h e r b i c i d e w a g a and sDinelli r* o r+ ific k H 37 1 O r a n g e , so I've loo k e d at those. 2 Q. Do y ou k n o w if you r e v i e w e d any o t h e r 3 specification during this time? 4 A. C l a r i f y , yo u m e a n -5 Q. For h e r b i c i d e s ? 6 A. For h e r b i c i d e s . I d o n ' t recall, just -- I 7 would just be speculating. 8 Q. At the time that you r e v i e w e d t h e s e 9 he r b i c i d e specifications, did you know what the 1 O herbi c i d e s were being used for? 1 1 A. C e r t a i n l y , yes, c e r t a i n l y . 1 2 Q. W h a t w e r e t h e y b e i n g used for? 1 3 A. T h e y w e r e b e i n g used for a n t i - c r o p a g e n t s and 14 d e f o l i a t i o n in S o u t h e a s t Asia. 1 5 Q. At this time, I ask to see the d o c u m e n t s 1 S that this w i t n e s s a d v i s e s us on the record that he 1 7 r e f r e s h e d his m e m o r y with, just for identifi 13 purposes 19 MR. GORDON: For the record, I b e l i e v e 2 O that Mr. -2 1 MR. M A T T H E W S : They were p r o v i d e d to Mr 22 Yannacone. 23 MR. G O R M A N : No, no, I'm not t a l k i n g 24 about -- 25 MR. PIERCE: There may be others, I think w n n n nnrl sninolli