Document BRdkzp65GoZ6dxG45jZOVOqmm

c e 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF WEST VIRGINIA AT CHARLESTON JAMES M. ADKINS, A d m in is tra to r ) of the E sta te of Ralph E. Adkins ,) Deceased, e t a l, ) ) P lain tiffs, ) vs. MONSANTO COMPANY, A Delaware C o rp o ratio n , ) ) ) ) ) ) Defendant. ) No. 81-2098 APPEARANCES : Paul L. P ra tt, P .C ., by Paul L. P r a tt, Esq. M essrs. Bowles, McDavid, G raff & Love, by C h arles M. Love I I I , E s q ., and Paul . Frampton, E sq ., and Thomas M. B i s t l i n e , Esq. For P la in tiffs , For Defendant, Monsanto Company Counse 1. IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED by and between counsel fo r the p la in tif f s and counsel fo r the defen d a n t t h a t the d e p o s itio n o f FRANK J . HElMER may be taken p u rs u a n t to Rule 26 (a) o f th e F e d e ra l Rules of C iv il P ro c e d u re , on June 2 , 1983, a t th e R adisson H o te l, 9th JAM ES MAY R EPO R TIN G SERVICE - % " . 1 . c2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 n 12 C 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 c 25 S tr e e t and Convention P la za , Room 215, S t. L o u is, M isso u ri, b efo re M. JOY SPRINGER, a Notary P ublic w ithin and fo r the County o f Madison, S ta te o f I l l i n o is ; th a t the issuance of n o tic e and dedimus is waived, and th a t t h is d e p o sitio n may be taken w ith the same fo rce and e f f e c t as i f a l l F ederal ru le s and sta tu to r y r e quirements had been complied w ith . IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED th a t any and a l l ob jection s to a l l or any part o f th is d ep ositio n except ob jection s as to form of the q uestions asked or answers g iv en , are hereby reserved and nay be ra ised on the t r i a l o f t h is cau se; and th a t the sig n a tu re of the deponent is not waived. ****** FRANK J. HELMER produced, sworn and examined on b e h a lf o f the p l a i n t i f f s , deposes and says a s fo llo w s: EXAMINATION BY MR. PRATT: (Whereupon the rep o rter marked P la in t if f s * JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 0 m' V=4 fi 1 c 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 n 12 C 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ^ 25 D eposition E xhibit #97, co n sistin g of 1 page; E xhibit #98, co n sistin g o f 1 page; E xhibit #99, c o n s is tin g o f 3 pages; and E x h ib it #100, cons is tin g of 1 page, for the purposes o f Id e n tification .) Q (By Mr. P r a tt) T e ll me your name, s i r . A Frank J. Helmer, H -e-l-m -e-r. Q Mr. Helmer, my name i s Paul P r a tt, and I rep resen t some people alon g w ith S tu art C a lw ell in the F ederal Court in West V irg in ia concerning some workers a t N itro who a lle g e d ly were exposed to d io x in and some other to x ic chem icals w h ile working th e r e , and I'm going to ask you some q u estion s about your p ossib le involvement in th is p articu lar subject m atter. I f any q uestion I ask you i s n ot c le a r , you t e l l me and I w i l l tr y to make i t c le a r , O.K.? A (Nods head a f f ir m a t iv e ly .) Q And g e n e r a lly what I ' l l be ta lk in g ab out, f i r s t o f a l l , i s your ed u cation al background and work background and then w e ' l l g e t in to some documents th a t you show up on on the d is t r ib u t io n l i s t , O.K.? A O.K. Q T e ll the Court and ju ry your name, p le a se . A My name is Frank Helmer. Q Where do you liv e ? JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE t 3 y* t r\- ^ ' f c 1 2 3 4. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 c 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 c 25 A 2825 Flamewood Drive in S t. Louis County. Q A ll r ig h t . How old are you, s ir ? . A 51. Q Graduate from high sc h o o l about 1950? A '49. Q What did you do a f t e r that? A I went in to the Army in 1951 and g o t out in 1953. q What did you do from *49 to *51? A I operated our fam ily b u sin ess. Q And what was th a t, s ir ? A I t was a fu r n itu re s to r e in the town of M onticello, Iowa. Q You went in the Army from *51 to '53? A To '5 3 . Q the Army? What did you do a f t e r g e t t in g out o f A Then I went to sc h o o l a t Iowa S ta te U niversity. Q You sta r te d in the F a ll o f 1953? A A ctually I started in '54. Q A ll r ig h t. F a ll o f '54? A Yes. Q What did you do between the Army and when you went to Iowa S ta te in *54? i JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 4 W -r / if 1 3 ' 4 5 6 7 ,8 9 10 11 12 C 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ^ 25 K3 A I worked a t various jo b s. Q O.K. S ta r tin g the F a ll o f '54 a t Iowa State? A Uh huh (y e s ). Q Was th a t a t Ames, Iowa? A Ames, Iowa. Q And when did you graduate? A In June o f 1959. Q And what was your Degree? A Bachelor of Science in Chemical Engineer- ln g . Q Can you t e l l me g e n e r a lly what courses you took to obtain the B .S. in Chemical Engineering? A Courses in mathematics, courses in p h ysics, in chemical engineering elements per se , courses in ch em istry, some cou rses in h u m an ities. Q O.K. How many hours do you have in your major? A I re a lly don't r e c a ll. Q Over 30, probably, r ig h t? A Probably. Q You have a minor? A Not r e a lly . Q A ll r ig h t . When you graduated in June o f '5 9 , what did you do? JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 5 1 / 1 CM 3 4 % ' 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 C c 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A X went to work fo r General M ills in M inneapolis, Minnesota. Q Now, b efore we go any fu r th e r , do you have any higher Degrees? A No. Q You went to work fo r General M ills , and what was th a t date? A That was in 1959, June o f 1959. Q And how long were you w ith them? A For two y ea r s, u n t il June o f *61. q And what was your t i t l e w h ile you were there and what were your d u ties? A My t i t l e was Food E ngineer, and my d u tie s were the development o f new grocery p rod u cts, p ro ce sse s to produce new grocery prod ucts. Q And did you remain as a Food Engineer during that two-year period? A Yes. Q A ll r ig h t . Where did you go a f t e r June o f 1961? A I join ed Monsanto a t the Queeny P lant in S t. Louis. Q And what was your f i r s t p o s itio n w ith them, w ith Monsanto? A As a P rocess E ngineer. JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 6 v r ----------- 1 '3 4 *" 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 C 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 IO Q What department ware you in? A As a P rocess Engineer I worked in ioialeic anhydride, m aleic and p h th a lic . pph. i Q And what are those p rod u cts, s ir ? A They are chem icals th a t e v e n tu a lly become components of p la s t ic s . Q Haw long were you a F rocess Engineer in that division? A Ttoo y e a r s . Q Be about June o f *63? A Yes. Q Where did you go then? A I became a Production Supervisor a t the same f a c i l i t y . Q of? A And what were you the Production Supervisor T oluenesulfonyl ch lorid e Manufacturing Department, TSCL. Q What were your d u tie s there? A To su p e rv ise the manufacture o f ch em icals, TSCL and d e r iv a tiv e s . Q How long were you in th a t p o sitio n ? A roughly. In th a t p o s itio n fo r two and a h a lf yea rs, Q About January o f '66? i JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 7 & - c c c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A T hat's about r ig h t . Maybe a l i t t l e la t e r . Maybe August o f *66. Q W h ere did you go t h e n ? A Then I went to the General O ffic e s as a Production Planning Supervisor. Q As a what? A Production Planning Supervisor. Q T hat's a t World H eadquarters, a s they c a ll it? A Yes. Q How long were you in th a t job? A U n til approxim ately September o f'67. Q What were your d u tie s a t the General O ffice as Production Planning Supervisor? A To arrange fo r the manufacture o f chem icals a t three d if f e r e n t p la n ts to match the mar k e tin g demand. Q What th ree p la n ts and what chem icals? A A whole armload o f chem icals, but the p la n ts o f Texas C ity , John F. queeny and Luling;. Q Nothing to do w ith N itro? A No. Q Any o f them have to do w ith 2 ,4 ,5 -T ? A No. Q 2,4-D? J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E r< ' 1 1 c 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 c 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ^ 25 A No. Q Then a f t e r September o f 1967 where did you go? A Then I became a Commercial Development P ro ject Manager. Q And where wre you a t when you did th a t, sir ? A At the General O ffices. Q How lon g were you in th a t job? A Short period of time. U n til, perhaps, February of 1968. Q What were your r e s p o n s i b il it i e s in th a t job? A I had one primary r e s p o n s ib ilit y , and th a t was in tro d u ctio n o f a new chem ical to a custom er, to a sp e c ific customer. Q F ollow in g February o f '68 where did you go? j A W ell, the fu n ction o f Commercial Develop- ment was d is s o lv e d as a Corporate fu n c tio n , and a t th a t 1 1: time I had r e a lly no job . I had to look around the corp oration fo r a jo b , and there was one open a t N itr o . ' So in February o f *68 I went to N itr o , West V ir g in ia , as an Engineering Supervisor. j Q How long were you in your c a p a c ity a t \1 / N itro as an Engineering Supervisor? A U ntil 1975. JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE o j 0 1 c 3 V' * 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 c" 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 V - 25 1 Q A ll r ig h t . Now, l e t me ask you t h i s , Mr, Helmer, did you change any jobs w h ile you were there? A No. I had the same jo b . . Q And what were your r e s p o n s i b il it i e s as an Engineering Supervisor a t N itro in February of '68 u n t il 1975? A I was r e sp o n sib le fo r the te c h n ic a l support o f a number o f products th e r e . Q What were those products? A P rin cip a lly the t a l l o il manufacturing f a c i l i t y . I a ls o had a number o f rubber ch em ica ls, se v e r a l o f th o se , and in the beginning I a ls o had 2 ,4 ,5 - T . Q And you had 2 ,4 ,5 -T February o f *68 u n til when, sir? A U n til the time th a t we knew the product would be abandoned, th a t the manufacture o f the product would be abandoned, which I su sp ect was probably in the ea rly part of 1969. Q A ll r ig h t . Now, t e l l me about what your r e s p o n s ib ilitie s were as the Engineering Supervisor in the 2,4,5-T process u n til i t closed . A W ell, my en g in eers were r e sp o n sib le for m aintaining the rated cap acity of the u n it, for in s t a llin g ca p a c ity and y ie ld improvement p r o j e c t s , to perform any s o r t of en g in eerin g s e r v ic e s th a t would be required JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 10 c II! c c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 n 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to keep the operation a t an econom ical and r e lia b le ra te , Q Can you t e l l us when th a t operation ceased? A I b e lie v e i t was in the middle o f 1969, I th in k , in the summertime o f '6 9 . I'm not sure o f those dates. Q A ll r ig h t . Were you involved as an en g in eer in any o f the work o f d ism an tlin g the 2 , 4 , 5-T plant? A None, Our fu n ctio n was an op tim izin g fu n c tio n , and once i t was known th a t the product was phased o u t, we had n o th in g f u r t h e r to do w ith i t . Q What was the reason th ey phased th a t out? A out. T ca n ! t say p r e c is e ly why i t was phased Q Was i t because the government was no longer going to buy 2 ,4 ,5-T or Agent Orange, as i t were? A I r e a lly d o n 't knew, Q So you had n oth in g more to do w ith 2 , 4 , 5-T a t N itr o a f t e r the summer o f '69? A We were p ro b a b ly o u t o f th e r e b e fo re the summer o f '6 9 . I th in k e a r l i e r in th e year we g o t out of there. Q W e 'll come back to t h a t period o f tim e l a t e r . Where did you go a f t e r 1975? J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 11 y v; i c ' | 1 i . 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 C 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 ; : 22 23 24 c 25 A Came to the Krumnrich p la n t in Sauget, Illin o is. Q What was your p o s itio n there? A Process Engineer Superintendent. Q O.K. And how long did you remain in that job? A I'm s t i l l in th a t jo b . So from f 75 u n til the present time. Q Are you oyer the e n tir e plant? A No. I have roughly a quarter of the p la n t, 25% o f i t . Q Have you always been over the same p art of tbs plant? A No. I 'v e had three o f the four areas now. Q T e ll me tim ew ise and what a r e a s. A W ell, in the f i r s t p eriod I had the a c id s , ch lo r o su lfo n ic and s u lfu r ic a cid s and monochlorobenzene f a c i l i t i e s and la t e r took cm the n itr o c h lo r o benzene, monochlorobenzene and la t e r the n itr o c h lo r o benzene f a c i l i t i e s , and then in the th ird period the n itroch lorob en zen e f a c i l i t i e s and d e r iv a tiv e p rod ucts, para- and o r th o -a n ilin e s and ortho-ri'itrojihenoly-ibatch n itrations. Q Any o f those areas you talk ed about Department 236 or 237 be under? T hat's the only penta i JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 12 I> ( p * i 1 C2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 C 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 / 24 25 and ortho. A I did have Department 239 but not penca. I had 239. Q What did they make in 239? A I t 's a b a cterio sta t. I t 's an ingredient in soaps. I t ' s ca lled Santophen. Q You had n othing to do w ith penta- or ortho- chlorophenol? A No, n ot to my r e c o lle c t io n , no. q 2,4-D? A No. 2,4-D has not been a product there fo r some tim e . Q 2 ,4 dichlorophenol? A No. Q 2,6 dichlorophenol? A (Shake s liea g nega tiv e l y .) Q Nothing to do w ith phenol? A No. W ell, the - - No, not r e a lly . Q Now, l e t me ask you t h i s , going back to your tour o f duty in N itro where you were the head o f the 2 ,4 ,5 -T and E ngineering Supervisor from February o f *68 u n t il b efore the summer o f *69, O.R. . Would you fr e q u e n tly be in the 2 ,4 ,5 -T area? Where were they making i t a t th a t time? B u ild in g 92? A That name r in g s a b e l l . X d o n 't r e c a l l l / JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 13 c c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 p r e c is e ly the number o f the b u ild in g . Q Had there been, do you know whether or not th ere had been any r e l a t i v e l y new u n it or new u n it put in in about *62? A I was aware th a t the f a c i l i t y was n ot an old f a c i l i t y . I was n ot aware o f the ex a ct date when i t had been in s ta lle d . Q Hid you have any problem in the manufactu re o f 2 ,4 ,5 -T w hile you were there concerning ranking the contaminant c a lle d 2 , 3 ,7,8-TCDD? MR. LOVE: O b je c tio n to th e form o f th e q u e s tio n . Q (By Mr. P r a t t ) Go ah e ad , A I can ! t r e c a l l s p e c i f i c a l l y whether we had problems- w ith the chem ical th a t you m entioned. Q Would some documents r e fr e s h your memory? A Depends on the document, Q This f i r s t one, P la in t if f s 'D eposition E x h ib it #97 (Monsanto id e n t if ic a t io n number 8319364), may n et be e x a c tly r e le v a n t to what we want to ta lk a b o u t, but I'm going to show i t to you. Hand you P la in t i f f s ' E x h ib it #97, ask you to take a look a t th a t. This docun^nt purports to be from an R. A. A tkinson. Do yen know who he is ? A Yes. J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E f. hC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 c 13 14 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 c 24 25 q Who is he? A He was a ch e m ist w orking a t th e p la n t a t tha t tim e. Q A ll r ig h t. A pparently, is a document t h a t was d ated A p ril 15, 1969? A Uh huh ( y e s ) . Q And lo o k in g a t th e s u b j e c t , looks lik e Sodium 2 ,4 ,5 - T . What does th e r e s t o f t h a t word s a y , can you make i t o u t? A 2 ,4 ,5 -T Eimco B e lt. C a n 't read th a t r l a s t one. Rinse or wash, something lik e th a t. Q And you*re on th e d i s t r i b u t i o n o f th a t document, c o rre c t? A Yes. Q La k in ? And th e document was to a Mr. F. A. A Plight. Q Who is he? A I b e lie v e Frank L akin was th e P ro d u ctio n Superintendent of th a t product a t the tim e. Q Who is Mr. K ellogg? A W ally K ellogg was my boss.. Ha was th e G eneral S uperintendent of Technique a t the se rv ic e s a t N itro. Q How a b o u t Mr. D olin? J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 15 1 A D olin was the C hief Chem ist. 2 Q Mr. Rhodes? 3 A la v e rn e was th e P ro d u ctio n S u p erv iso r 4; o f th e 2 , 4 , 5-T D epartm ent. ,H 5 Q What a r e th e y d is c u s s in g in the te x t 6 o f t h a t s h o r t memo? 7 A Looks to me l i k e v?hat th e y were tr y in g 8 to do here is to see what the co n ten ts of the wash w ater 9 was a f t e r we h^d f in is h e d w ashing th e Bimca b e l t . 10 Q Haw were th e y going to do th a t? n A Taking the w ater and te s tin g i t fo r the 12 ch em icals t h a t i t c o n ta in e d . 13 Q And w hat p ro c e s s was u sed on th a t? 14 A A p p a re n tly - - W ell, a s i t says h e r e , 15 a c i d i f i e d th e w ate r and th en e x t r a c t e d , w hich means 16 shake th e w a te r u p , w ith 15 m i l l i l i t e r s o f ch lo ro fo rm 17 w ith t e t r a l i n ad d ed , I d o n 't know why, and what happened 18 th e r e was p ro b a b ly th e o rg an ic t h a t was in th e w ate r was 19 d is s o lv e d o u t p r e f e r e n t i a l l y in th e ch lo ro fo rm and th e n 20 r a n a sample o f th e ch lo ro fo rm th ro u g h a GLC, w hich i s 21 a gas chrom atograph and th en th e y can t e l l w hat kind 22 o f ch em icals were c o n ta in e d in t h a t v :a te r. 23 Q What d id th e y f in d or n o t f in d in t h a t 24 document? 25 A They found a s m a ll, ex tre m ely sm a ll J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 16 9 ii i 2 3 's 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 amount or 2 ,4 ,5 -T and no d e te c ta b le amount o f TCP. Q And what were th e ir d e te c tio n lim its ? A According to Rick in h is memo, you could d e te c t up to -- i s th a t percent - - f iv e ten thousandths of a percent. Q Of TCP? A Yes. Q And how much 2 ,4 ,5 -T ? A Is th a t a percent sig n on the end o f that? That would be one thosusandth o f a p ercen t o f 2,4,5-T . Q And how much approxim ately o f 2 ,4 ,5 trichlorophenoxyacetic acid? A Hot much he found was .007%, or seven thousandths o f a p ercen t, which i s very t in y , and no d e te c ta b le amount o f TCP. Q A ll r ig h t . l e t me hand you P l a i n t i f f s 1 D ep o sitio n E x h ib it #98 (Monsanto id e n t i f ic a t i o n number 8319432), and ask you i f you can id e n t if y th a t. A Yes. q A ll r ig h t. ' This document, P la in tiffs* E x h ib it #98, appears to have o r ig in a te d from a man named Jack Strum, i s th at correct? A Right. Q Who i s or was Jack Strum? J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 1 2 3 * *t: ; ; 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Jack Strum was a young Process E ngineer a t the time a t E litro. Q And h e 's w r i t t e n a memorandum d ated I*fe.y some tilin g , 1969, co n c e rn in g TDD a n a ly s is o f 2 ,4 ,5 - T , rig h t? A C orrect. q And villat you1re ta lk in g a b o u t i s th e t e t r a l e v e l o f th e p a r a d io x in s , c o r r e c t , th e term TDD* t h a t 's w hat i t means ? A Yes. Q A g ain , the memo v:as to F rank Lakin? A Uh huh ( y e s ) . Q And th e p erso n s r e c e iv in g t h a t memo w ere Del in , y o u r s e lf , and v?ho a re th e o th e r people? A W. C. Woods, t h a t 's C u rt Woods, anc h e !s a chem ist, and P. B alderson,and h e 's a ls o a chem ist. Q A p p aren tly , Mr. B alderson had agreed to ru n TDD a n a ly s is on a number o f sam ples o f sodium TCP c u rre n tly being produced in order to a s c e rta in th a t no in crease had occurred in the amount of d io x in , rig h t? A C orrect. Q C u rt \voods wa;-. to s e t up a program fo r a ro u tin e a n a ly sis o f the 2 ,4 ,5 -T fin is h e d goods sample fo r dioxin by the Q uality C ontrol la b , rig h t? A C orrect. JA M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G SE R VIC E *! ' t 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 c3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 c 2S IO Q In o rd e r to e s ta b lis h w here th e y w ere now on th e f in is h e d g o o d s, i s t h a t a p r e t t y good s ta te m e n t? A Y es. MR. LOVE; O b j e c t i o n t o t h e fo rm o f th e q u e s tio n , fo r w hat i t 's w o rth . Q (By M r. P r a t t ) And th e l a s t p a ra g ra p h s ta t e s t h a t , " A fte r s u f f i c i e n t a n a ly s e s h av e been comp le te d , I w ill ev alu ate our c u rre n t s itu a tio n and re p o rt to y o u ," m eaning L a k in , r ig h t? A Y es. Q D id you e v e r s e e a copy o f t h a t r e p o r t? A Not th a t I can re c a ll. Q W ere you in v o lv e d In t h i s ty p e o f t e s t i n g a t a ll? A P erso n ally ? Q Y es. A No. Q Why w o u ld y o u b e r e c e i v i n g a c o p y o f th is ty p e o f docum ent th a t r e la te s to gas ch ro m ato g rap h a n a l y s i s f o r TCDD? MR. LOVE; O b j e c t i o n t o t h e q u e s t i o n a s to i t s fo rm . T h e re 's no m e n tio n o f a gas c h r o m a t o g r a p h , t h a t I ' m a w a r e o f , in t h e d o c u m e n t . Q (B y M r. P r a t t ) Go a h e a d . A Ja c k w orked in my g ro u p . JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 4 19 4$ < V iG4 1 C2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 c 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 N Q Worked fo r you? A Yes. Q Are you p r o fe s s io n a lly capable o f doing that type o f a n a ly tica l testin g? A Personally? Q Were you? A Personally? Q Yes. A No. Q doesn't it? Hi is d eals w ith a n a ly tic a l chem istry, A Correct. Q engineering? A Completely d iffe r e n t f ie ld o f chemical Yes. Q Hand you w hat's been marked, Mr. Helmer, P l a i n t i f f s ' D ep osition E x h ib it #99 (Monsanto id e n t if ic a t io n number 8319180) , and ask you i f you can id e n t if y th a t document. You reco g n ize th a t document, s ir ? A Yes. q This document, P la in tiff s ' E xhibit 99, c o n sists of three pages, does i t not? A Yes. Q The f i r s t page i s a Progress Report, JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 20 1 dated February 21, 1969, is th at correct? 2 A Correct. 3 Q And i t ' s from your a s s o c ia t e , J . C. .4 Strum, rig h t? 5 A Correct, 6 Q And i t shows th a t you 're on the d i s 7 tribution l i s t , correct? 8 A Yes. 9 Q And what i s thet i t l e o f t h is document? 10 A T it le i s Reduction o f TDD in Sodium jcp . 11 B u ild in g 92. 12 Q And what was the problem t h a t 's s ta te d c 13 14 there ? A "Reduce form ation o f TDD in 2 ,4 ,5 -T 15 p la n t sodium TCP a u to c la v e s , and in cr ea se con version 16 o f TCB to sodium TCP." 17 Q In other words, in cr ea se production 18 and to lower th e d ioxin ? 19 MR. LOVE: O bjection to the farm o f the 20 q u e stio n . D ioxin has n o t been mentioned in any 21 o f th e se documents. I f you want to use th a t 22 term, I would req u est th a t you la y some s o r t 23 o f a foundation fo r the time p eriod in which 24 i t became a term th a t was known to t h is w itn e s s , 25 whether i t was known a t the time o f the au th or- JA M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V IC E t V `' l 1 C 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 C 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 c 25 ship o f the document. Q (By Mr. P r a tt) What i s TDD, sir ? A o f TDD. I'm not sure o f the chem ical com position Q isn 't it? I t 's tetra ch i orodibenzo-para-dioxin, A That sounds lik e what i t would be, y es. Q W ell, then i t would commonly be c a lle d d io x in , would i t not? MR, LOVE: O bjection a s to the form o f the q u estio n a s to when and what p o in t in tim e, i f e v e r , i t was commonly c a lle d d io x in . MR, PRATT: Your o b je c tio n 's n oted . Q (By Mr. P r a tt) Go ahead. A When we d e a lt w ith t h is ch em ica l, TDD, th a t was i t s id e n t it y , and t h is i s how we r e fe r r e d to i t , a s TDD, and a s you can s e e in th e se documents. Q That's an abbreviation of what, sir? A I t 's an abbreviation o f the chemical name o f the th in g , which i s te tr a d ic h lo r o w hatever. Whatever the chem ical name i s . TDD i s , o b v io u sly , a shorthand n otation . Q isn 't it? I t's tetrachlorodibenzo-para-dioxin, A Apparently th a t's so , yes. JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 22  1 c2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 c 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 e 25 Q So the problem a s s t a te d was to reduce formation o f the tetrachlorodibenzo- para-diox in in 2 ,4 ,5 -T p lan t sodium a u to c la v e s, i s n ' t th a t correct? A Reduce fo n d a tio n o f TDD. Q And in crea se con version o f t e t r a ch loro benzene in to sodium TCP? A Yes. Q In other words, increase production and reduce the amount o f TDD, r ig h t? A That's correct. Q Looking a t the summary in the f i r s t paragraph, would you read to the ju ry the second sen tence , A "Hie resea rch stud y in d ic a te d a red u ction in form ation o f TDD (a chloracnegen) from 40 p arts per m illio n (1968 experience) to 5 to 7 parts per m illio n , w ith a concurrent red u ctio n in TCA --" Q What i s TCA? A T richloroanisole. Q A ll right. A "-- co n ten t from 1% to tr a c e ." Q And would you readthe f i r s t lin e o f the second paragraph. A "The trL run showed a red u ction in TDD con ten t from 10.5 parts per m illio n to 3.05 partsper J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 23  $; i +> V X , * >, c 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ^ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 c 24 25 l m illio n . *' Q Do you know th e amount o f parts per m illio n or p arts per b i l l i o n th a t was a ccep ted in the industry as being sa fe a t that time o f tetra ch lo ro d ibenzo-p & ra-dioxin? A No. Q I t in d ic a te s on th a t day w ith th a t run, the TDD, or te tr sc h lo r o d ib e n z o -p a r s-d io x in , showed 3.05 parts per m illio n , is that correct? MR. LOVE; O bjection to the form o f the q u e stio n . X d o n 't knot! what day you 're talking about. MR. PRATT: February 2 1 s t , 1969. Q (By Mr. P r a tt) You want the q u estio n read back. (Whereupon the rep o rter read back the preceding q u estion .) A I don't b eliev e you're talking about th a t day a t th a t run. I t seem3 to me t h is would b e, the 3.05 might be the average o f the t r i a l runs. Q (By Mr. P ra tt) A ll r ig h t . Turning to P la in t if f s ' D ep osition #99, page 2 under D e t a ils , would you read that f i r s t paragraph, s ir . A "T etrach lorod ib en zyld ioxen e (TDD) i s the oh ly known chloracnegen in v o lv ed in the manufacture o f JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE j 24 1 2 ,4 ,5 - T , I t i s formed In the sodium TCP a u to cla v es 2 In a sid e r e a c tio n during the production o f sodium TCP.11 3 Q Did youknow whatch loracn e wasthen? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Did any o f your persons th at worked In 6 the 2 ,4 ,5 -T o p era tio n , did you ever hear o f them having 7 any other p h ysical problems other than chloracne? 8 A No. 9 Q Did you ever go over and ta lk to any 10 o f the men th a t worked In th ere and d isc u ss any p h y sic a l 11 problems th a t th e y `were having? 12 A No. 13 Q Would you read to the ju ry the second 14 paragraph o f page 2 o f P l a i n t i f f s ' E x h ib it #99. 15 A "In p a st years TDD produced during the l sodium TCP r e a c tio n has amounted to approxim ately 40 17 p arts per m illio n (based on t o t a l p h e n o ls). Since the 18 i n s t a l l a t i o n o f the a u to cla v e p ressure charging system , 19 a s ig n if ic a n t red u ction In TDD has been observed, but 20 the incidence of chloracne is s t i l l high." 21 Q And th is d a te , February2 1 s t , i s about 22 the time th ey sh u t th is op eration down, w ith in a few 23 months? 24 A Y es. 25 Q W ouldyou r e a d th e f i r s t s e n te n c e o f J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 1 paragraph 3 , page 2 o f P l a i n t i f f s 1 E x h ib it #99, Hr. Helmer. 2 A "A gricultural Research re ce n tly completed 3 a stud y o f the sodium TCP r e a c tio n w ith th e goal o f 4 m inim izing TDD and o b ta in in g a more com plete con version 5 o f TCA ( t r ic h lo r o a n is o le , the main in term ed iate in the 6 r e a c tio n ) to sodium TCP." 7 Q And what does the n ex t sen ten ce sa y , s ir ? 8 A "The study in d ic a te d th a t TDD con ten t 9 o f the sodium TCP could be reduced to 5 to 6 p a r ts per 10 m illio n u sin g pure methanol and 7 t o 8 parts per m illio n 11 u sin g re cy c led methanol (normal p la n t p r a c tic e )." 12 Q Turning to page 3 o f P l a i n t i f f s 1 E x h ib it 13 # 9 9 , in Table I I c e r ta in com parative a n a ly ses were made 14 on Batch N os. 149, 150, 151, 152, 154, 155 and 157, 15 i s n ' t th a t correct? 16 A Y es. 17 Q And fo r Batch No. 149, how much te tr a 18 ch lo ro d ib en zo -p a ra -d io x in was found in p arts per m illio n ? 19 A The TDD was, a p p a ren tly , 4 .3 . 20 Q Batch No. 150, what was found? 21 A 14 p arts per m illio n . 22 Q And Batch 151? 23 A 1 1 -1 /2 . 24 Q Batch 152? 25 A 3 .1 J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E * --^ c * 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 c 14 15 l 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 c 24 25 Q Batch 154? VO CM A Q Batch 155? A 2.3. q Batch 157? A 6.5. Q I hand you w hat's been marked P l a i n t i f f s ' D ep o sitio n E x h ib it #100 (Monsanto id e n t if ic a t io n number 8306643). Ask i f th is is not a S ervice Request in the N itro Plant Technical S ervices, dated 1 /9 /6 9 , the Request i s from Mr . J. C. Strum, i s th a t co rrect? A Correct. Q And you 're one o f the people on the d istrib u tion , correct? A Yes. Q O u trigh t? A And a Mr. O u tr ig h t's th e r e . Who i s Mr. C utright was a M anufacturing Sup erinten - d en t o f th a t u n it . Now, I think he was succeeded by Mr. Lakin very s h o r tly a f t e r t h i s , I b e lie v e . Q And the statem ent c f problem and o b je c tiv e was what? Would you t e l l the ju ry what th a t was. A You want me to read th at? Q Yes, s ir . A "TDD, the primary cause o f chloracne in J JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 27  G (i|/ J. 1 c 3. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 C 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 c 24 25 2 ,4 ,5 -T , is produced in a sid e r e a c tio n in the sodium TCP a u to c la v e s. A g r ic u ltu r a l Research has developed a proposal to reduce th e TDD co n ten t o f the sodium TCP from 50 parts per m illio n to 5 p arts per m illio n . An in te n s iv e p la n t stu d y i s required to ev a lu a te the p rop osal and make n ece ssa r y p rocess and equipment m odifications i f the proposal is adopted." Q A ll r ig h t . Would i t be f a ir to sa y th at in January o f '69, from th is document, that the process was showing about 50 p arts per m illio n ? MR. LOVE; O bjection to the form o f the q u estio n in th a t the document i s one prepared by someone e ls e which r e f l e c t s a carbon copy to the w itn e ss, and no foundation has been la id to su g g est he had any knowledge where the inform ation came from or accuracy or a u th e n tic it y . Q (By Mr. P r a tt) Go ahead. A I don11 know what the l e v e l o f th e TDD was in the process a t th a t tim e. Q W ell, in the second sentence i t says, "A gricultural Research has developed a proposal to reduce the TDD co n ten t o f the sodium TCP from 50 p a rts per m illio n to 5 p arts per m illio n ." Based on th e ten se o f th a t sta tem en t, would you conclude th a t on January 9th , a t l e a s t , they s t i l l had as much a s 50 p arts per m illio n JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 28 in th a t process o tetro ch lo ro d ib en zo -p a ra -d io x in ? MR. LOVE; O bjection to the farm o f the q u e stio n , and i t c a l l s fo r co n clu sio n on the part o f the w itness w ithout any proper foundation being la id . Q (By Mr. P ra tt) You may answer. A I f th is is in reference to a laboratory run - - I d o n 't know whether th is i s in r e fe r e n c e to a lab oratory sim u lation o f our process or to our process its e lf. Q So you c a n 't answer th a t question? A No, so I r e a lly c a n 't answer. I don't remember what the TDD le v e l was in our a c tu a l p ro ce ss. Q Then onthe document, P l a i n t i f f s ' E x h ib it 100, i t ' s hard to read, but I thin k i t has to do w ith b en efits, generally, is n 't that correct? A Yes. Q And would you t e l l the ju ry what the four b e n e fits are shown. A On th is document,"Number 1, S a fe ty (G reatly reduce p ersonn el exposure to TOD). 2 , Shorter au toclave c y c le s . 3 , E lim inate problems a sso c ia te d w ith incom plete a /c r e a c tio n (high TCA in product, plugged drying system , low a s s a y ). 4 , Improved r e la tio n s w ith c r a ft personnel, correspondingly improving J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E a v a ila b ilit y o f maintenance workers." Q O.K. Do you know an yth in g about the health e ffe c ts of exposure to tetrachlorodibenzo-paradioxin? A I know a l i t t l e b i t , y e s . Q T e ll me what you know. A I know th a t some in d iv id u a ls who were s e n s itiv e would su ffer a skin ir r it a tio n , Q And th a t was c a lle d what? A I t was lo c a lly known as the bumps or weed bumps, but i t was ch lo ra cn e. Q Do you knot; of any other h e a lth e f f e c t s ? A No. Q Had you a t the time orhave yousin c e read any o f the s c ie n t if ic lite r a tu r e concerning the law le v e l tetrach lorod ib en ao-p ara-d ioxin s? MR. LOVE: O b jection . You asked him a t the. tim e. I d o n 't know what time you 're talking about. MR. PRATT: At the time he was th ere working in 2 ,4 ,5 -T . A No. Q (By Mr. P r a tt) Are youf a m i l i a r , other than these documents we have looked a t h ere , which are P l a i n t i f f s ' E x h ib its 97 through 100, w ith any o f the J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E # 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 c 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 c 24 25 tetrach lorod ib en so-p ara-d ioxin valu es th a t were found under gas chromatograph in the 1960's? A No, not r e a lly , Q You would have never r e c e iv e d any o f those documents in yur work other than p o s s ib ly the ones we have here where you we^e a cc? A Correct. Q Did you ever t e l l any o f the workers during the period o f time you were over the 2 ,4 ,5 -T p la n t as Engineering Supervisor th at working in there could be harmful to th e ir health? A No. MR. PRATT: Think you very much. Frank J. Helmer J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 31 O i K3 - 1 STATE OF IL L IN O IS ) t ) SS. COUNTY OF MADISON ) 3 4 I , M. JOY SPRING ER, a N o t a r y P u b l i c , d u l y 5 commissioned and q u a lifie d in and fo r the County o f 6 Madison, S tate of I l l i n o i s , do hereby c e r t if y th at 7 pursuant to n o tic e came b efo re me on the 2nd day o f 8 June, 1983, a t the Radisson H o tel, 9th S tr e e t and 9 Convention P la za , Room 215, S t. L o u is, M isso u ri, 10 FRANK J. HELMER, who was by me d uly sworn to t e s t i f y 11 to the tru th and n oth in g but the tru th o f h is knowl12 edge touching and concerning the m atters in co n tro v ersy c in th is case; th a t he was thereupon c a r e f u lly examined 14 upon o a th , and h is exam ination reduced to w r itin g 15 under my su p e rv isio n ; th a t the d e p o sitio n is a true 16 record o f the testim on y given by th e w itn e ss; and 17 sig n a tu r e o f the w itn ess i s not w aived. 18 I FURTHER CERTIFY th a t I am n e ith e r a tto r n e y 19 nor co u n sel fo r nor r e la te d to nor employed by and 20 o f the p a r tie s to the a c tio n in which t h is d e p o sitio n 21 i s taken; and fu r th e r , th a t I am n o t a r e la t iv e or 22 employee o f any a tto r n e y or co u n sel employed by the 23 p a r tie s h e r e to , or f in a n c ia lly in te r e s te d in the t 24 a c tio n . ,, IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto s e t my JAMES MAY REPORTING SERVICE 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 C 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 C 24 25 hand and a f f ix e d my n o ta r ia l s e a l on t h is day of June, 1983. Notary Public w ithin and for the County o f Madison, S tate o f I l l i n o i s . J A M E S MAY R E P O R T I N G S E R V I C E 33