Document B5ddNGwBJqr7LN3m0m5Y7BpMo

T. Marmor Page 173 Page 175 1 Q. Explain'that to me your last 2 statement between chrysotile and crocidolite? 3 A. What they say here is that there 4 is evidence that crocidolite is most frequently 5 associated'with mesothelioma. From the date 6 available* it appears that the TLV of 5 million 7 particles per cubic foot MPPCF may not be low 8 enough to protect against mesothelioma. 9 Research on the problem continues. That's the 10 additionalparagraph. Because Calidria is 11 chrysotile and'not crocidolite. That is the 12 distinction that makes a difference to Union 13 Carbide." 14 Q. Wouldn't you say that Union 15 Carbide is telling the reader.of that 16 toxicology report that crocidolite causes 17 mesothelioma and chrysotile does not? 18 A. No. Otherwise, I wouldn't say 19 that researches continuing. It'sa question 20 of magnitude. Theywere uncertain at that 21 time. It appears that-more'is associatedwith 22 one than the other. It doesn't say zero is 23 associated with it, does it? Nobody was in a i 24 position to say that then....... 25 Q. ' Do they say in that report that 1 it's an inference that you can'defend. It is 2 not what they say.' It doesn't exclude the ' 3 possibility that crocidolite is more associated 4 in an area of great uncertainty, that's the 5 area that they're claiming is the case.. 6 Someone could who had a- 7 presumption about this might say gee, why 8 didn't they mention in' another sentence this. 9 does not rule out that chrysotile is.also 10 associated, but the structure of that sentence 11 which is about more frequently suggest less 12 frequently. Otherwise you wouldn't use more* 13 Q. At the time they wrote this in 14 1969, Union Carbide knew that mesothelioma was 15 a fatal disease, didn't they? . . .. 16 A. .Oh, yes, they.did. : .. 17 Q. They knew that.even the slightest, 18 exposure could cause mesothelioma* is that 19 right? , . ? 20 A. There was much more uncertainty 21 about mesothelioma at that period'of tlmethan 22 there was about asbestosis or lung-cancer. It 23 was, I think more mysterious about what - 24 exposure would produce.the effect. That is . 25 what is referred to here is not-clear What the Page 174' Page 176 1 chrysotile causes, mesothelioma? 2 A. They don't say either. They say 3 is most frequently'associated* They use 4 asbestos exposure in the first sentence.' Then 5 they distinguished two kinds Of asbestos. It's 6 more associated with the'secottd kind: . 7 Then they say this general level 8 of protection, the 5 million iparticle&per 9 cubic foot,-may nbt-be low enough to protect 10 against mesothelioma which aeems'to me .to be a; II candid statement at that period of time. 12 Consistent with disputes going>od then that I 13 found in:the public literatureiabout what Was a .: 14 level'of genera1 restrainton asbestos* 15 whatever type it was, that would-prbtect 16 against mesothelioma. 17 Q. Would you agree with me that it 18 is noCa strained interpretation of,that that a 19 reader could come'to the conclusion'from 20 reading that that Union Carbide is saying 21 crocidolite does not cause mesothelioma, but 22 rather chrysotile causes mesothelioma? 23 A. I think Someone could come to 24 that conclusion, butT don't think it would be : 25 an accurate conclusion. That is, I don't think 1 level of exposure control that would work., 2 Q. Butthepresumptronwasalower 3 exposure to asbestos could cause mesothelioma' . 4 lower than the exposures needed to cause 5 asbestosis; isn't that correct? 6 A. That's the suggestion, yes. 7 Q. So at the time Union Carbide 8 wrote this 1969 toxicology report, see if you . j 9 agree with me, they knew- one, mesothelioma was 10 a terminal disease, incurable^they knew, two. 11 that mesothelioma was likely caused by-lower ' 12 exposures than necessary to cause, asbestosis 13 and lung cancer. Do you agree with those two ' 14 statements? 15 A. I agree with the first one. I 16 don't know that I would put it-the way you did. 17 They certainly thought mesothelioma was ia more 18 virile and horrible form of cancer and was less 19 certain about what threshold value would in 20 fact protect against it. So that I would agree 21 with. 22 Q. And nowhere in that toxicology 23 report does it say chrysotile asbestos can 24 cause mesothelioma? It's a simple question. 25 Does it say that? 44 (Pages 173 to 176) POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY (314)421-0099