Document 9J47XJm80QzL32kmJnOY6Yzd3

.. i , 97258FAU.TXT 0001 n0o1 \J L. IN THE CIRCUIT COURT IN AND FOR CALHOUN COUNTY, ALABAMA 03 04 CIVIL ACTION NUMBER 05 CV-96-657 06 07 JOHN E. MASSEY, St al . 08 Plaintiffs, ' 09 vs. 10 MONSANTO COMPANY, et a!., 11 Defendants. 12 13 14 DEPOSITION TESTIMONY OF: 15 ALAN FAUST 16 17 November 12, 1997 18 1:02 p.m. 19 20 COURT REPORTER: 21 DAVID L. MILLER, RMR 22 23 0002 01 STIPULATION 02 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED by 03 and between the parties through their 04 respective counsel that the deposition of 05 ALAN FAUST, may be taken before David L. 06 Miller, Registered Merit Reporter and 07 Notary Public, State at Large, at the law 08 offices of Hollingsworth & Associates, V?r\r\ Birmingham, Alabama, on November 12, 1997, 10 commencing at approximately 1:02 p.m. 11 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND 12 AGREED that the signature to and the 13 reading of the deposition by the witness 1 A is waived, the deposition to have the same 15 force and effect as if full compliance had 16 been had with all laws and rules of Court 17 relating to the taking of depositions. 18 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND 19 AflOPrn that -i-t 20 any objections to be made by counsel to 21 any questions, except as to form or 22 leading questions and that counsel for the 23 parties may make objections and assign 0003 01 grounds at the time of trial or at the 02 time said deposition is offered in 03 evidence, or prior thereto. 04 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND 05 AGREED that notice of filing of the 06 deposition by the Commissioner is waived. 07 08 INDEX 09 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE NO. 10 Mr. Hodges 6 11 Certificate 58 12 (No exhibits marked) Page 1 ADAD21-004607 HARTOLDMON0034909 i 97258FAU.TXT 15 16 -i ~r _L/ 18 19 20 21 ->-> <. tm 23 0004 01 APPEARANCES 02 or FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 04 Lucian B. Hodges 05 Hollingsworth & Associates 06 1615 Financial center 07 Birmingham, Alabama 35203 08 09 10 11 12 FOR THE DEFENDANT: 13 Adam K. Peck 14 Lightfoot, Franklin & white 15 300 Financial Center 16 Birmingham, Alabama 35203 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 0005 01 I, David Miller, a Registered 02 Merit Reporter of Birmingham, Alabama, and 03 a Notary Public for the State of Alabama 04 at Large, acting as Commissioner, certify r\ r that on this date, pursuant to the Alabama 06 Rules of Civil Procedure, and the 07 foregoing stipulation of counsel, there 08 came before me at the law offices of 09 Hollingsworth & Associates, Birmingham, 1XUA A 1 A k^ M A kYIm A hA -I ^ n in \/ ^ + 1 \ , 1 A T ruauama, uuiiiiiicu v- i i ly at ajjjj i ua i ilia lc i y _l.U 11 p.m. on November 12, 1997, ALAN FAUST, 12 witness in the above cause, for oral 13 examination, whereupon the following 14 proceedings were had: 15 16 ALAN FAUST, 17 being first duly sworn, was examined and 18 testified as follows: 19 20 COURT REPORTER: Usual 21 stipulations? 22 MR. HODGES: That's fine. 23 MR. PECK: That's fine. 0006 01 EXAMINATION BY MR, HODGES: 02 Q. Would you state your name for 03 the record, please. A. Alan G. Faust. Q. Have you ever given a Page 2 ADAD21-004608 HARTOLDMON0034910  97258FAU.TXT 06 deposition before? 07 A. No. Q. ] _ _ . OCIIC3fR *a m nm' nn +-r\ -t c~\s wnn ........ yv i i i y cw uji\ )ruw 09 of questions, if you don't understand 10 what l'm asking, I will be glad to repeat 11 it. And if you answer the question, I'm 12 going to assume that you understood what I 13 asked you; is that fair enough? 14 A. Sure. 15 Q. What is your address, Mr. 16 Faust? 17 A. 1220 Stillwater Road. 18 Q. What is your profession? 19 20 A. projects. I'm the manager of remedial 21 Q. who is your employer? 22 A. solutia, S-O-L-U-T-I-A, Inc. 23_ MR. PECK: Do you know why he 000/ 01 is with Solutia now? 02 MR. HODGES: No, I don't. 03 MR. PECK: Okay. 04 Q. (BY MR. HODGES) why are you UDs\ r with Solutia now? 06 A. solutia is the artifact of a 07 spin-off from Monsanto of the chemical 08 division. So it's a new company spun-off 09 from Monsanto. 1A -LVJ Q. okay. 11 MR. PECK: I don't want you to 12 think that I brought you the wrong rep. 13 14 MR. HODGES: That's okay. Q. (BY MR. HODGES) what was your 15 16 17 18 19 20 job title again? A. Manager of remedial projects. Q. How long have you been working for Solutia? A. well, Sglutia, and then formerly Monsanto since 1991. 21 22 23 Q. when did solutia start-up? A. This past September. Q. September of '96? 0008 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 A. Yes -- no, '97= Q. '97? Okay. You started at Monsanto when? A. In June of 1991. Q. what was your job title at Monsanto? A. when I started? Q. Sure. A. was -- I was a hydrogeologist. Q. And what other job titles did you hold at Monsanto? A. i went from hydrogeologist to remedial project manager to manager of remedial projects. Q. What were your duties as a hydrogeologist? A. I was a, basically an in-house consultant for a number of facilities, advising them on environmental issues, mainly revolving around investigations and Page 3 ADAD21-004609 HARTOLDMON0034911  21 ground water. 97258FAU.TXT 22 Q. And was contamination of 23 ground water part of that? 0009 01 A. impact of ground water, yes. 02 Q. what facilities were you an 03 in-house consultant for? 04 a .Anni ci-nri Trenton Michiaan. 05 Q. Okay. ' 06 A. Corondolet, Missouri. 07 Q. Okay. Anymore facilities? 08 A. There was about five or six 09 others, but I don't remember the names 10 particularly. 11 Q. And after you were a 12 hydrogeologist for them, you became a 13 remedial project manager? 14 A. Right. 15 Q. what were your duties? 16 A. My duties there were oversight 17 and communication to upper management on a 18 number of sites that Monsanto was involved 19 in clean-ups across the US. 20 Q. And then you were promoted 21 from that position? 22 A. To manager of remedial 23 projects. 0010 Ulr\-! Q. Did your duties change? 02 A. well, in that my sole 03 responsibility is the Anniston project. 04 Q. okay. Before you were solely 05 responsible for the Anniston project, were AVUfl there other facilities that you were - 07 A. That was when I was a project 08 -- project manager in remediation. 09 MR. PECK: Remedial project X111J0. manager? 12 Q. _______ _ jji u icv.1 mcmayeP. it sounds like the same job? 13 A. More or less. 14 Q. Okay. What jobs have you held 15 before you started working for Monsanto? lfi A. T graduated in 1980. 1 went 17 to work for, at that time it was City 18 Service Oil and Gas, later bought out by 19 Occidental Petroleum, and worked for them, 20 what was Occi-USA until 1989, as a 21 geologist and geophysicist. 22 "q. And then did you work anywhere 23 after that before Monsanto? 0011 01 A. In '89 I went to work for an 02 environmental consulting firm in st. 03 Louis, McClelland, M-c-C-l-e-l-l-a-n-d, 04 Consultants, until '91, when I went to 05 work for Monsanto. 06 Q. Okay. What was your job at 07 McClelland Consultants? 08 A. Ground water investigation and 09 hydrogeology. Hydrogeologist. Q. Were you employed by different companies or - Page 4 ADAD21-004610 HARTOLDMON0034912  97258FAU.TXT 12 A. Right. As a consulting firm 13 we worked for other companies doing, you 1_L"AT I/ n /Mil r~ i nh + n ///* r mn w4* r **i n rl i^/\ m /I iii** + a n MIUVV , O I IJII l ad^CDOIIICIILS Cl I IU yi UUIIU vva LCI 15 work. 16 Q. what companies, if you can 17 think off the top of your head? 18 A. We did work for Olin, did some 19 work for Phillips Pstrolsum. 20 Q. Okay. Off the record a 21 second. 22 (Off-the-record discussion) 23 Q (BY MR. HODGES) Back on the 0012 01 record. Tell me about your educational 02 background, Mr. Faust. 03 A. okay. I went to Southwest 04 Missouri state University in Springfield, 05 Missouri; graduated in 1980 with a 06 Bachelor's degree in geology. 07 Q. That's a BS? 08 A. Right. And then in '89 I 09 graduated from Oklahoma City University 10 with an MBA, which I took night school 11 doing that. 12 Q. Do you regularly attend any 13 continuing education seminars? 14 A. occasionally we try and make 15 room for one, one seminar a year or so. I 16 didn't seem to get away to one this year. 17 Q. what is the last one you 18 attended? A. it would have been the -- I guess the last one would have been October .iL of '96, the Ala-chem fall meetings in 22 Montgomery -- or Mobile. 23 Q. where are you from? 0013 0m1 A. St. Louis.r\ r+- I nii-l /-O /"vlx-iw r\-i /I t in I vjl. y. u. luu i 3 : \jway . uiu yuu 03 grow up there your whole life? 04 A. uh-huh (Nodding head). 05 Q. Okay. Going to Southwest 06 Missouri state and Oklahoma City 07 lWl.n. i. w. vo-. r^c.itwvj , H e -h.h%a**l_- tWh..eW OYtent W. vJW/mV.i.r 08 college education? 09 A. uh-huh (Nodding head). 10 Q. Okay. I'm going to ask you 11 some questions now about Monsanto. 12 A. okav, 13 Q. If you don't know the answer, 14 just tell me. 15 A. All right. 16 Q. We will move along, what is 17 the exact name of that corporation? 18 A. Solutia, incorporated. 19 Q. who owns that? 20 A. Stockholders. 21 Q. Do you know how many people 22 work for Solutia? 23 A. I believe it's about 0014 01 eighty-eight hundred. 02 Q. Eighty-eight hundred? Page 5 ADAD21-004611 HARTOLDMON0034913  03 A. Right. 97258FAU.TXT 04 Q. Okay, what is its usual 05 course of business? 06 A. it's a chemical company, 07 predominantly in the fibers, carpet 08 business. That's about fifty percent of 09 it. -1 A XU v^. vv 11 a i i ^ _ m c o i 11 company? You say there is eighty-eight 12 hundred people that work there? 13 A. Right. 14 Q. How many manufacturing i s facilities does it have? 16 A. I believe we have around 17 nineteen in the US. 18 Q. Do you know why it changed 19 from Monsanto to Solutia? 20 A. Right, it was, basically the 21 CEO of Monsanto wanted to get into 22 biotechnology, and no longer in the 23 chemicals business. They are into seeds 0015 01 and pharmaceutical. 02 Q. Do you know why they wanted to 03 get out of the chemical business? 04 A. I think it was all 05 phi1osophical. 06 Q. okay. 07 A. I'm sure there were some money 08 issues. 09 Q. where is its home office? A. St. Louis. Q. do you know where it's 12 incorporated? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Does it have a principal place 15 of business, if you know? 16 MR. peck: st. Louis. -1 T X/ A. Yes. That's the headquarter 18 with plants throughout the US. 19 Q. Any plants in Alabama? 20 A. Yes, two. 21 Q. where are those located? L. L. MA Anni ctnn oUnIrIUl nLa/Vr.Vo.UtUnUrI 23 Q. Tell me about your duties 0016 01 right now as part of your job. 02 A. My job is I'm responsible for 03 all of the remediation activities at the 04 Anniston facility. 05 Q. what is -- what do you mean by 06 remediation activities? 07 A. Basically the, the development 08 of work plans and the -- getting approval 09 from the' State of Alabama of those work 10 plans for doing projects around the plant 11 which are termed remediation. 12 Q. What type of projects do you 13 mean? 14 A. Right now we are about to 15 finish up a cap and cover and storm water diversion project, which involves diversion of all of the storm water that Page 6 ADAD21-004612 HARTOLDMON0034914 97258FAU.TXT 18 falls on the eastern half of our property, 19 the retention of that storm water, the t7--nV multi-layer capping of thirteen acres of 21 landfill, and the capping of roughly 22 thirty to forty acres of area impacted 23 with -- impacted sediments and soils. 0017 m Q. Okay. Why is the storm water 02 being diverted? 03 A. For several reasons. One, we 04 have to sample all of our storm water, we 05 have an npds permit that requires us to 06 sample our storm water discharge from our 07 property. And, as such, we needed to 08 basically control it, capture it so that 09 it comes to one source, one area that we 10 can sample it. 11 But, additionally, to reroute 12 storm water so that it no longer flows 13 across the landfills or the impacted areas 14 that we are capping and covering. And 15 then, thirdly, to control it so that it 16 doesn't erode any of those areas. 17 Q. what is the -- what are you 18 sampling for when you said that you are 19 sampling the storm water? 20 A. We have requirements for 21 suspended solids, pH, chlorine, and PCBs._ 22 Q. what kind of suspended solids? 23 I don't understand what you mean by that. 0018 01 A. Basically, how muddy the water 02 i s. Q. How often do they -- do you 04 sample that storm water? 05 A. We have to sample a storm once 06 a quarter. 07 Q. And this is mandated by the nvws 09 A. Mandated by our NPDS permit, 10 which the State has primacy. 11 Q. what was the permit? I'm 12 sorry. 13 A. npds is National Pollutant 14 Elimination and Discharge, something. I'm 15 not sure. But basically there are two 16 types of NPDS permits; one for discharges 17 from plants, outfall of your normal 18 process water, and then a second would be 19 for storm water. And this is regulations 20 that all facilities have to comply with. 21 Q. How far out from the plant 22 does your remediation activities take 23 place? 0019 01 A. Basically, to theeast 02 probably a quarter of a mile. I would say 03 roughly a quarter of a mile around the 04 pi ant. 05 Q. if you had a mapof the plant, 06 and you drew a quarter of a mile circle? 07 A. Yeah. 08 Q. Roughly? Page 7 ADAD21-004613 HARTOLDMON0034915 97258FAU.TXT 09 A. The areas would fall within 10 that, yes. 11 Q. I understand from reading some 12 newspaper articles that you are the head 13 of the clean-up effort at Monsanto? 14 A. Right. 15 Q. okay. 16 A M. Lt I.m I.mul /I r- n 1 1 mi i lii vvc vvuu i vj ii 17 remediation. 18 Q. How many current or former 19 residents of Anniston have filed suit 20 against Monsanto concerning PCB 21 contamination, if you know? 22 A. I have no idea. 23 Q. Do you know when that plant 0020 01 opened? n? A. I believe it was in the -- the 03 plant itself, I think it was in the teens. 04 I'm not -- I don't recall exactly. 05 Q. when did that plant start 06 manufacturing PCBs? 07 A. I don't know. 08 Q. How many people serve under 09 you in the clean-up effort? 10 A. well, it varies. Currently 11 with the work we are doing this year, 12 actual solutia employees is only two. But 13 we do most of our work with outside 14 contractors. The outside contractors we 15 have under contract this year are probably 16 a hundred. 17 Q. what are the duties of those 18 outside contractors? 19 A. Technical consulting, to 20 develop the design. Then construction 21 management of the project. And then 22 construction crews to actually implement 23 the project. 0021 01 Q. Do you have outside 02 contractors that are responsible for 03 moving the soil from the area? r\ a UH A. Right. That would be the 05 general contractor, earth works contractor 06 does the soil work. 07 Q. when did this clean-up project 08 start? n\Ja_/ A. The first project that we 10 implemented from a remedial project 11 standpoint was the west-end landfill. And 12 construction of that began in '95. 13 Q. Tell me a little bit about 14 that projset. 15 A. That was a piece of property 16 to the west of the plant that was a 17 landfill used in the past by the facility. 18 The design that was approved in the IQ consent order with Alabama, the Department 20 of Environmental Management, was a' 21 multi-layer cap cover of that property and 22 drainage controls. 23 Q. when was that landfill built? Page 8 ADAD21-004614 HARTOLDMON0034916 97258FAU.TXT 0022 01 A. I don't know. A" Q. Do you know what contaminants 03 were in that landfill? 04 A. It was used -- it was used 05 during the operation of the facility, but 06 I'm not sure what went in it. n7 1\J / Ii/ol rUl-iI rUl \)rrVr\Wi rW\rU\ ^Umlljf/ cJ nCAmI1n1lI iI ni lny 08 of the soil? 09 A. We did a soil sampling and 10 ground water sampling program prior to 11 implementation of the design. 12 Q. what was detected? 13 A. Soil samples detected PCBs. 14 Ground water, there were no detections. 15 Q. do you know where those pcbs 16 came from in that landfill? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Were you aware thatMonsanto 19 manufactured pcbs? 20 a. Yes. 21 Q. And you don't know when they 22 started manufacturing them? 23 A. No. I'm not theexpert on the 0023 01 history of -- of really any of the 02 production at the plant. 03 Q. Do youknow when they stopped 04 manufacturing them? 05 A. f71. 06 Q. Do you know why they stopped 07 manufacturing them? 08 A. No, I'm not -- I'm not the one 09 that knows the details on that. 10 Q. Well, do you -- as part of 11 your expertise and training, are you aware 12 of any environmental or health hazards 13 related to PCBs? a -r ___ ____~\ A 4- m x miuw -- my Miuwieuye ui il 15 is that it's a regulated industrial 16 chemical that is regulated by federal 17 regulations, like many other industrial 18 chemicals. 1 1Q rA~\ ri ov, \jr/rw\1w1 uoui v_ rvv-Fi uaimi)i/ li/\n'i iniurl vsiF 20 health consequences related to the 21 ingestion of PCBs? 22 A. My only knowledge is that, 23 what I have read about the exposure to nn?4 01 people that dealt with PCBs on a regular 02 basis at many facilities; no health 03 claims. 04 Q. So you are not aware that 05 there are any health hazards associated 06 with ingestion of PCBs? 07 A. No. 08 Q. Do you know if Monsanto or - 09 A. Solutia -- 10 Q. -- solutia has done any kind 11 of independent research into the health 12 consequences of pcb ingestion? 13 A. No, I don't know. 14 MR. PECK: If you want to you Page 9 ADAD21-004615 HARTOLDMON0034917  97258FAU.TXT 15 -- if y'all just want to call -- we can 16 agree that you can call it Monsanto or 17 call it Solutia. we will take it to mean 18 both companies. 19 Q. if I say Monsanto or solutia, 20 I mean both. 21 A. Right. Q. Do you know what 23 PCBs adhere to? 0025 01 A. well, they adhere to -- they 02 have an affinity to adhere to carbon. 03 . O^ 04 to soil? ^ ^ -Aro \/rm aunro 1-hal- thp\/ arlharp 05 A. Sure. 06 Q. Sediment? 07 A. uh-huh (Nodding head). 08 Q. Dust, water? 09 A. Not water. But fine clay, and 10 sediment particles. 11 Q. In any of the sampling that 12 you have done -- you stated earlier that 13 you sampled the soil at the west-end 14 landfill and the ground water in that 15 facility? 16 A. uh-huh (Nodding head). 17 Q. Did you sample anything else 18 besides those two? 19 A. You mean the two medias, like 20 soil and ground water? 21 Q. Yes, sir. A. we sampled storm water, ground water, and surface soils. 0026 01 Q. How far out from the landfill 02 did y'all sample? 03 A. We have sampled to the north 04 where the drainage flows -- I don't know 05 specifically how far, but several thousand 06 feet, probably. 07 Q. Did you sample the blood from 08 any animals or anything from any animals? 09 A. we didn't, no. i r\ V Q. Are you aware of anybody else 11 who has? 12 A. I'm aware that some blood 13 samples were taken. 11 4c Q. From people?A T *m r cnmi* /i T rlnn * + XJ /-a. lean, x in aj i i ly x uui i i_ 16 know. 17 Q. Do you know if they took any 18 dust samples from anyone's homes? 19 A. There were dust samples taken ?n in the east of the nlant, 21 Q. In the plant or outside the 22 pi ant? 23 A. No, outside the plant. 0027 01 Q. Do you know where they were 02 taken from? 03 A. I'm not really the expert -- I 04 wasn't involved in that. 05 Q. Who was involved in that, if Page 10 ADAD21-004616 HARTOLDMON0034918 97258FAU.TXT 06 you know? 07 A. Bob Kaley. -1 4- 4>A Ua aa J Ui L LU uc ucai 09 no one at Monsanto did that. He is 10 telling you, I think, Bob Kaley knows 11 about it. 12 A. Knows of the sampling. 1 3 MR. pecki X didn't! want you 14 to get confused about that. 15 Q. (by MR. HODGES) Do you know 16 who it was that performed that sampling? 17 A. I don't know, 18 n. who is Boh Kalev? 19 A. He is director of 20 environmental affairs with Monsanto, 21 solutia. 22 Q. He still works there? 25 A. Yes. 0028 01 Q. you told me about the first 02 project, which was the west-end landfill? 03 A. Right. 04 Q. when was that project 05 fi nished? 06 A. That was finished in August of 07 '96. 08 Q. Okay. Were there any other 09 concurrent projects that were going on at 10 that time? 11 A. Uh-huh (Nodding head), we 12 were doing soil sampling and sediment 13 sampling. 14 Q. Where at? 15 A. Around the plant, east of the 16 plant and north of the plant, we were 17 building a storm water retention basin 18 east of the plant in '96. 19 Q. Is that -- has that project been completed? 21 A. uh-huh (Nodding head). Yes. 22 The basin was completed in November of 23 '96. 0029 ni UX that nrm' q /~ + cl-ar+^Arl 1.1 IU L pn UJ ^ UMI l-'-W J 02 if you know? 03 A. Basically, summer of '96. 04 Q. Okay, what other projects 05 have been done or are underway? ok A. That would get us into '97 and 07 the projects that we have got going right 08 now, which we talked about earlier, the 09 storm water detention, and cap and cover 10 of the landfill, and cover of the acreage 11 to the east of the plant. 12 Q. what is' that acreage being 13 covered up with? 14 A. We're first laying down a 15 geosynthetic fabric. It's a black fabric. 16 And then -17 Q. what is that fabric -- what is 18 the purpose of it? what does it prevent? 19 A. The purpose of it is to, one, 20 mark the existing layer or the preexisting Page 11 ADAD21-004617 HARTOLDMON0034919  97258FAU.TXT 21 surface. And then, secondly, it acts as 22 an erosions barrier. On top of that is 23 sixteen inches of soil that is graft and 0030 01 covered. 02 Q. Is that project finished? 03 A. No. it will be complete in AA UH December. 05 Q. Okay, is there any other 06 projects that you are working on or have 07 planned for the future? 08 A. Next year we will be working jpAv/Q/ north -- north of the plsnt doing 3. 10 similar cap and cover and storm water 11 control project. 12 Q. Is there any reason that you 13 are not doing them both at the same time? 14 A. lust -- just the magnitude 15 mostly. " 16 Q. The logistics? 17 A. Right. 18 Q. How many acres is it that you 19 are capping and covering? 20 MR. PECK: You mean in the 21 project that he is going on right now? 22 Q. Yes, that we are talking about 23 right now? 0031 01 A. Right. We are capping 02 thirteen acres of landfill, and between seventy and eighty acres of cover with the fabric and soil. Q. What is the purpose of that 06 project? 07 A. Well, three main emphases; 08 one, control of storm water, as we 09 discussed earlier. And then, two, is the 10 -- the multi-media cap over the landfill 11 cells is to reduce surface water 12 infiltration, and to secure it from any 13 erosion. The cover of the seventy to 14 eighty acres is to mitigate any potential 15 for storm water to erode impacted soil and 1r ID L I CLi l^flU IL LI I dll Ul I-OIIC. 17 Q. is the purpose of that project 18 also to prevent dispersion of pcbs? 19 A. Well, like I said, it's to 20 eliminate storm water from coming in _L L.LSJ I LQC L U { mrtir+'orJ c at 1 c *i"ki ra + a rfl I lll^d-L. L^U J'*U* I 1I J' .U.....I..1...U.....L..........U.......I.....V. 22 impacted with PCBs, and thus pick them up 23 in the sediment and disperse them 0032 01 off-site. 02 Q. Do you know why your company 03 doesn't want the pcbs to be dispersed? 04 A. Well, again, it's a regulated 05 chemical like many industrial chemicals 06 that have requirements to control. It's 07 an industrial chemical that needs to be controlled as it impacted soils and sediments, it needs to be controlled so that it doesn't move off-site. Q. Okay. Do you know why it Page 12 ADAD21-004618 HARTOLDMON0034920 97258FAU.txt 12 needs to be controlled? 13 A. It was established by the US -X* 4A* ERA as a regulated substance. And those 15 regulations are set up using very 16 conservative approaches and to protect 17 human health and the environment. 11 8Q Q. Do you disagree with what you 20 how dangerous PCBs are? 21 MR. PECK: I object to the 22 form of the question. I think it 23 mischaracterizes what he said about PCBs. 01 Go ahead. 02 A. I again am not the expert on 03 the effect of PCBs. 04 Q. Okay. I read somewhere that 05 there was a fence around the Monsanto 06 plant area. 07 A. uh-huh (Nodding head). 08 Q. Can you tell me about that? 09 A. The fence around the facility? 10 Q. Yes. 11 A. There is a -- I believe it's a 12 eight-foot chain link fence around the 13 facility. 14 Q. Were you responsible for 15 having that implemented? 16 A. No. That has been in 17 existence for a long time. 18 Q. Are the areas that you have 19 been working on such as the landfill and 20 the -- the capped areas, is that fenced 21 off? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. what is the purpose of those 0034 01 fences? AT m. deiurmy emu . 03 Q. Do you know why they want to 04 keep people out from those areas? 05 A. It's a federal -- it's a 06 requirement of the regulations that these 08 Q. Are you aware of how many 09 acres of soil, cubic yards of soil has 10 been dug up and moved by Monsanto? 11 A. Well, the only soil that has 12 been dug up and moved are clean soils that 13 we have used in the cap and cover project. 14 And that -- our current estimates are 15 roughly three hundred and fifty to five 16 hundred thousand cubic yards. Again, we 17 are not complete, we are not done yet. 18 Q. Do you have any estimate of 19 when you will be done? 20 A. with the projects we have 21 going, in December of this year. And 22 we'll be done with the north side next 23 year. 0035 01 Q. was there any particular 02 reason that you are doing one particular Page 13 ADAD21-004619 HARTOLDMON0034921 97258FAU.TXT 03 area instead of another? 04 A. well, the -- the area that the 05 emphasis was started in was the east side. 06 And, again, it was contiguous with the 07 other projects that we are doing this 08 year. 09 Q. Do you know why you started on in xu + U rv r*+- r 1 d a -i m -fr- a n /I a -P -fU a a a ia+- Ia a ! aIaO n a. Right. That's where the 12 original storm water samples were taken. 13 And the storm water from the plant outfall 14 and the south landfills flow through that 1 q area. 16 Q. Okay. Is the level of PCB 17 contamination in that area higher than it 18 is, or was it higher than it was in other 19 areas? 20 A. well, T mean, the -- the area 21 on the east side is -- I'm not sure I 22 understand the question. 23 Q. Okay. I'm sorry. It may not 0036 01 have made any sense. 02 what I want to know is, is 03 there any area around the plant that has 04 been found to be any more contaminated 05 with PCBs than other areas? 06 A. The -- when you are talking 07 soil samples, it's fairly heterogeneous, 08 it can vary. The areas with the highest 09 levels of impact were in the ditch where 10 drainage flowed. 11 Q. That -- where with respect to 12 the plant did that lie? 13 A. There is the drainage ditch 14 that flows east of the plant, as well as 15 the drainage ditch that flows to the west 16 of the plant and to the north. 17 Q. Was there any particular ditch 18 that was more contaminated than another 19 ditch? 20 A. I wouldn't say anything stood 21 out one as opposed to the other. *>*} L.L. 23 0037 are almost \/a i c a + a 4-- a aI a a a T a a a iuu iLdLcu cai i ici finished building a X La a X % / a a li ici l yuu sediment 01 basin? 02 A. we finished construction of 03 the sediment bssin Isst yesr. And we sre 04 doing storm water controls in the project 05 this year. 06 Q. How large is that basin? 07 A. That we completed last year? ns Q. Yes, sir. 09 A. I believe it's about ten 10 acres. 11 Q. Is that basin regularly 12 tested? 13 A. it's part of all of the 14 outflow that gets tested on a quarterly 15 basis. 16 Q. How many samples do they take 17 from that basin? Page 14 ADAD21-004620 HARTOLDMON0034922  97258FAU.TXT 18 A. It's one sample during a 19 storm. 20 Q. when you stated you were 21 working on storm water controls right now, 22 what do you mean by that? 23 A. Well, the project that we have 0038 yui Liiid ycai , vvc ai c v.a|^iu i 11 ly d uu i in 02 water that flows down off of the mountain, 03 uphill of the south landfill, capturing 04 that, diverting that into a pipe, and 05 piping it roughly a mile around the area. 06 And cfnrm watorc 1-hal- -Fall nn 1-h "landfill 07 area get diverted into the sediment basin 08 that we finished last year. 09 The storm water from the 10 plant, it's converted and piped to the 11 east. And the areas that are caooed to 12 the east of the plant are all captured and 13 diverted into piping. All of that piping 14 goes into one catchment basin that gets 15 sampled. 16 Q. okay. Do you know how the 17 area around the Monsanto plant became 18 contaminated with PCBs? 19 A. The areas that we've been 20 investigating are in the storm water 21 ditches, which transport PCBs. It would 22 have been in the storm ditches, 23 transported by sediment and soil. 0039 01 Q. Would the origin of those PCBs 02 have been in the Monsanto plant? 03 A. The storm water from the plant 04 and from the south landfill at Monsanto 05 goes down through those ditches. 06 Q. That south landfill, do you 07 know what was dumped into that landfill? 08 A. it was used during the 09 operation in the facility for solid waste 10 and some production waste, as well as 11 dismantling of the PCB unit, and other 11 2O units as we dismantled different k\ ri rv -I-- "i r\ i mi 4- r- UUUt L lull UII1UO. 14 Q. do you know when that landfill 15 was used? 16 A. NO. 17 Q. Some of thewaste that was i a *1 *1 1rli imnorl *Ii InI IL- IhIV. IUaInIWrlfIHI I I ) HViIVH< HI iL- rL.nVInI LfaU iI nI I 19 PCBS? 20 A. The PCB production unit was 21 dismantled and put in there. As to what 22 other was in there, I don't know. 23 Q. Well, would some of the 0040 01 production waste contain PCBs, if you are 02 aware? 03 A. I'm not aware. 04 o. okay, do you know when 05 Monsanto began testing for PCBs around 06 that plant? 07 A. We -- as far as the projects 08 that I'm involved with, we began sampling Page 15 ADAD21-004621 HARTOLDMON0034923  97258FAU.TXT 09 storm water in the areas around the plant 10 in '93. 11 H. Are you aware of any testing 12 that was done for PCBs before 1993? IB A. I'm aware that there was some, 14 but I'm not the expert on that. 15 Q. who would be, if you know? -1 f~ ID A. Bob Kal6y WOUlu be, Would know 17 that sampling. 18 Q. What is his job title? 19 A. Director of environmental 20 affairs. 21 nV^> DI rVRUcul rUlnUnI I'tI. nWrr\.nMrI nI IaU tWnW4rI aUllI wI jr -in 22 the environment, do they? 23 A. They are a manufactured 0041 01 chemical. 02 Q= But there is no instances of 03 an environment, of it being a natural 04 substance? 05 A. I couldn't tell you that. 06 Q. Are you aware of any federal 07 or state fines that have been levied 08 against Monsanto? 09 A. No, I'm not aware of any. 10 Q. Do you work in conjunction 11 with, or do you have any contact with 12 anybody from the ADEM? 13 A. Sure. 14 Q. Who do you have contact with there? A. we work with the RCRA branch, solid waste division, out of Montgomery. 18 Q. when you mean you work with 19 them, what does that entail? 20 A. All of the work that we are 21 doing currently and in the past was 22 approved work plans, or currently the work 23 we are doing is interim measures plans per 0042 01 RCRA regulations that are administered by 02 ADEM. We work with their review and 03 approval on-site. r\ a \J Q. Is "there any particular person 05 there that you work witn more than others? 06 A. Stephen Cobb. 07 Q. Do you know his position 08 there? no \J _/ A n mw . 10 Q. Okay, when you say RCRA, what 11 do you mean by that? 12 A. That's the set of regulations. 13 And it stands for Resource Conservation 14 and Rprm/orvJ Art /A...nwr,i i*. Iw-1 -cr the no..r....m........i..t.. 15 that we currently have for the facility, 16 the Part B post-closure permit. 17 Q. Do you know how many people 18 currently work at that Anniston facility? 19 A. I think it's roughly a 20 hundred. 21 Q. That facility doesn't produce 22 any chemicals any longer, does it? 23 A. It makes -- it has several Page 16 ADAD21-004622 HARTOLDMON0034924 97258FAU.TXT 0043 01 product lines. I don't know specifically 02 what they are. 03 MR. PECK: They don't make 04 PCBS. 05 Q. I'm glad. okay, who -- how 06 many people work under you at the moment? nv~/7 A. D *5 hIa+- n/Aiu f lirtrn -Fpi a+- umr 1/ An >\ 1 Ul 1 L IIVJVI LIIUJC LliaL WUI IX Ull 08 the projects that I'm responsible for is 09 about a hundred. 10 Q- Are those employees of -- 11 A. No. Those are subcontractors 1? to Solutia. 13 spell solutia for me. 14 A. S-O-L-U-T-I-A. 15 Q- who are your supervisors? 16 A. My supervisor is Michael 17 Foresman. 18 Q- F-O-R-S-M-A-N? 19 A. F-O-R-E-S-M-A-N. 20 Q- is he in Anniston? 21 A. No. He is in St. Louis. 22 Q- what is his job title, do you 23 know? 0044 01 A. He is director of remedial 02 projects. 03 Q. Do you know how many remedial 04 projects Monsanto has going on right now? 05 A. No. 06 Q. we have kind of gone into this 07 already. But you are not aware of when 08 Monsanto began producing PCBs? 09 A. No, I don't know the specific 10 date when PCBs began manufacture. 11 Q. You don't know how much of it 12 they produced, do you? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Are you -- do you know how 15 much of it was dumped in that landfill? 16 A. I don't know that any was 17 dumped in the landfill. 1i 8n Q. Okay. But you know that thea i n' rt m n n 4- + Ia n 4- m Ami "p a /* ti i ia a rl + Ia /a n/"* D p J.ZJ ci^uiuiiiciil u ia l iiiaiiuiaui.uicu ui ic r uuj vtao 20 in the landfill? 21 A. was put in the landfill, yes. 22 Q. okay, when is the last time 23 you have done any sampling of the area? 0045 01 A. we -- we finished our soil and 02 sediment sampling per the 1996 consent 03 order, we finished that the fall of last 04 year. 05 Q. About a year ago? 06 A. Yeah. 07 Q. What were the results of that 08 testing? 09 A. Quite a number of soil and 10 sediment samples. And we have found the 11 limits of detectable PCBs in sediments and 12 soils around the plant. 13 Q. What were the results of that 14 testing? I mean, you found PCBs - Page 17  15 97258FAU.TXT A. Found pcbs in the ditch and 16 immediately adjacent to the ditches in the 17 east side, and to the west and north of 18 the plant. All those results were filed 19 with the State of Alabama. 20 Q. Has the level of PCBs in your 21 sampling lowered over the years? 22 A. i couldn't answer that. The 23 only part that I'm -- I have dealt with is 0046 01 the current sampling that we have done. 02 Q. Okay. Do you know who could ry\~o) answer that Question at Monsanto? 04 I think Bob Kaley could answer 05 that. 06 Q. Have you read a copy of the 07 complaint that has been filed in this na c o vu 09 A. I don't recall that I have. 10 Q. Okay. Do you know what this 11 case is generally about? 12 A. Generally, I believe it's 13 claims by Mr. Massey of, I believe, 14 property and health" claims. 15 Q. Are you aware that he has 16 given blood and he has tested positive for 17 pcbs in it? 18 A. No, I'm not aware of that. 19 Q. Are you aware -- we have gone 20 over this already. I just want to make sure -- are you aware of any kind of health consequences for having pcbs in your blood? 0047 01 A. NO. 02 Q. Have you ever had your blood 03 tested for them? 04 A. No. 05 Q. Have you seen a copy of the 06 answer filed by Monsanto to this 07 complaint? 08 A. No. 09 Q. Do you know how the plaintiffs 10 -- when I say plaintiffs, I mean Mr. and 11 Mrs. Massey -- how they could have assumed 12 the risk of the injuries which they are - 13 the basis of this lawsuit? 14 A. I don't understand the quest!on. 16 Q. Well, part of the answer was 17 that Mr. and Mrs. Massey assumed the 18 risk -- that's one of the defenses of 1in9 M*1o1nsanto -- of the injuries which they aiieye; 21 MR. peck: object to the form 22 of the question, calls for a legal 23 conclusion. 0048 01 A. I have no answer* 02 Q. well, do you think that 03 Monsanto owed a duty to the people that 04 lived around that facility? 05 A. well, any operating facility Page 18 ADAD21-004624 HARTOLDMON0034926 97258FAU.TXT 06 works in the community as a neighbor and 07 has a duty to work with those people. Auon ~ ^1 r-x _ ________ i ................I UKxd.y. lu yuu miuw wiicm 09 Monsanto first became aware of PCB 10 contamination around that facility? 11 A. it was during a storm water 12 sampling in '93. r\ cl_ U^IrlI-iI nr1 \/rV\Mi i ^ -IFIt oI rl l-hblaIUl" b 14 there was some sampling for PCBs before 15 that time? 16 A. Yeah. That was my 17 recollection. But, again, I'm not the 1R expert on that. 19 Q. Do you know when the 20 government first started regulating the 21 production of pcbs? 22 a. NO. 23 0. You stated earlier that it was 0049 01 a regulated chemical? 02 A. uh-huh (Nodding head). 03 Q. Do you know when it started 04 becoming regulated? 05 A. No, I don't. 06 Q. Are you aware of what the 07 standards are governing PCBs? 08 A. Other than it's a regulated 09 chemical that needs to be considered in 10 sampling, I don't have any other 11 knowledge. 12 Q. well, do you know that it's 13 regulated by the US Government and by the 14 State of Alabama? 15 A. I think it's regulated by the 16 US Government, and then Alabama complies 17 with those regulations, yes, sir. 18 Q. Do you know what agencies of 19 the US Government regulate the production ui rtDi;-r\ C\J n/"n O 21 A. TSCA, I believe, is the 22 specific agency that deals with PCBS. 23 Q. TSCA? 00m50 \J A. 02 nA Ti jCvT.nA Q. what does that stand for? 03 A. Toxic - 04 MR. peck: Toxic Substance 05 Control Act. 06 A. Control Act, yeah, T-S-C-A. 07 Q. Do you work with any agencies 08 of the US Government in your job 09 presently? 10 A. Not directly. But the work 11 that -- that the Alabama Department of 12 Environmental Management, oversight for us 13 and approval of work plans, is -- they 14 consult with the US epa. 15 Q. Do you work with any other 16 state agencies besides adem? 17 aT The Alabama Department of 18 Health, Public Health. 19 Q. What is your relationship to 20 the Alabama Department of Public Health? Page 19 ADAD21-004625 HARTOLDMON0034927 97258FAU.txt 21 a. They are advised and they 22 comment on -- like the Alabama Department "I "> ui cmv i i uimien lcl i i*iculaycmcn l ............................*1 ^ wui rv p i ai la 0051 01 and submittals for work that we have. 02 Q. okay, what kind of safety 03 precautions do you or the people under you rv1 v~r r\ -f- u/h o n \/r\i i * pu I LUI\V. V I V V I IS-I I jrvw * 'hcUlC' ll -"j rig 05 contaminated substances that are 06 contaminated with PCBs? 07 A. well, there are federal 08 regulations, OSHA regulations, that nq dictate the level nf nt rntprtinn that v_ ou 10 need to wear. 11 Q. what does the level of 12 protection start with? 13 A. The -- it's classified into 14 three or four levels. 15 Q. what are those levels? 16 A. I don't -- I couldn't recite 17 them specifically. 18 Q. I mean, when -- is there 19 certain times when you might wear a suit 20 versus -- 21 A. in the -- in the projects that 22 we are working, in area where there is 23 known levels of impacted material -- 0052 01 Q. I'm sorry to interrupt you. 02 By impacted material, you mean PCB 03 contamination? 04 A. Sediments and soils impacted 05 by PCBs. They are required to wear 06 long-sleeve shirts, long pants, and Tyvex 07 suits, which are basically disposable 08 outerwear so that they don't have to 09 dispose of their clothes. 10 Q. Is there any particular -i -1 footwear that is used? 12 A. Just normal steel-toed - 13 normal construction steel-toed shoes. 14 Q. How does -- what is the 15 increase in protection, and when is it 1c _l_ \J -? nrra'acarl? i ii i cujcu ; 17 A. For what we are doing, there 18 is no, no increase. 19 Q. Okay. Do your men ever wear 20 any kind of mask or anything? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Do they wear gloves when they 23 are handling the soil and the water? 0053 01 A. No. They are required to wash 02 their hands after leaving the -- before 03 they leave the site. 04 Q. Are they required to wash 05 their boots? 06 A. Yeah, or they would put 07 disposable booties on. 08 Q. Like they wear athospitals, 09 that kind of thing? 10 A. Yeah. 11 Q. Off the record. Page 20  97258FAU.TXT 12 (Off-the-record discussion) 13 Q. (by MR. hodges) Tell me what -1 A J_*+ you know abou "t "the manufacture n y of" PCBs 15 and what the purpose of those are. 16 A. Well, PCBs were a heat 17 transfer fluid used extensively, a lot in 18 the electrical business, in transformers. 19 qb what do you know about ths 20 health consequences of PCB ingestion? 21 A. I don't know of any - 22 anything specific about it. 23 Q. Well, are you aware that it's 0054 01 been found to be a carcinogen? 02 A. No, I'm not aware of that. 03 Q. Are you aware that it can be 04 ingested into the human body and found in 05 the fat of that body? 06 A. well, i know like any 07 industrial chemical, it can -- or any 08 particle can be ingested in the human 09 body. 10 Q. But is it fat soluble, or do 11 you know? 12 A. I don't know. 13 Q. who owns that facility now? 14 A. Solutia. 15 Q. Solutia? okay. Do you know 16 who the CEO of solutia is? 17 A. it would be RobertPotter, 18 P-O-T-T-E-R. Q. Okay, where is he, do you know? * 1 C. X A. St. LuU1s. 22 Q. when does your job run out, or 23 when are you going to be completed with 0055 0m1 this job in Anniston? A lifn iiin 1 1 list + U \jl. AA . VVC Will UC V_Ullip ICLCU Willi UIC 03 major construction projects around the 04 plant in late '98. we are currently, in 05 '98 we will be doing a facility 06 investigation under RCRA, under that 07 nncf-rlncnrp nprinit l-ha^ T 1-a"l 1ahnnt* *- >- .............................. ''-*- -- 08 Q. Sure. 09 A. And that will go on for some 10 period of time. No real end necessarily. 11 Q. So that the major construction 12 oroiects end. but there will be continual 13 testing? 14 A. Continual involvement by me in 15 the project handling, we will have care 16 taking responsibilities for all of these 17 areas for a long time. 18 Q. Do you know how long Monsanto 19 20 A. Current permit stipulates 21 thirty years of operation and maintenance. 22 Q. When did that permit start? 23 A. i don't recall specifically, 0056 01 but I think it was January of -- January 02 of this year, January of '97. Page 21 ADAD21-004627 HARTOLDMON0034929  97258FAU.TXT 03 q. is there -- who decides 04 whether that permit continues after thirty 05 years? 06 A. The State of Alabama. 07 Q. Do you know what the terms are 08 of - 09 A. The permit isn't thirtyyears. 10 The permit is for ten years, and it is 11 renewed at that time. The remedial 12 projects that we do under that permit have 13 an initial thirty-year operation and 14 maintenance responsibility. 1C -L J A . r\/-> \ /n i i lx * /-vi i lsi; you r\i icsvv n/*Dr t ro ii rtuj ai c r+n 1 1 oiiii 16 manufactured? 17 A. I don't know. 18 MR. PECK: Do you mean 19 anywhere in the world? ->ni-- v i -fn . TJ- u..V/aAn..iV-1-n VlW?nnw . . \/Jn~n knnw 21 anywhere in the US. 22 MR. HODGES: That's all the 23 questions that I have. 0057 01 MR. PECK: All right. 02 2:08 pm " 03 FURTHER DEPONENT SAITH NOT 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 0058 01 CERTIFICATE 02 r\ "> UD STATE OF ALABAMA) 04 JEFFERSON COUNTY) 05 06 I hereby certify that the above 07 and foregoing deposition was taken down by me III L5 LCI IU Ly JJt f 09 answers thereto were transcribed by means 10 of computer-aided transcription, and that 11 the foregoing represents a true and 12 correct transcript of the deposition given 13 can rl \a/i'+*nocc ca -i ri hpa ri nn 14 I further certify that I am 15 neither of counsel nor of kin to the 16 parties to the action, nor am I in anywise 17 interested in the result of said cause. Panp 77 ADAD21-004628 HARTOLDMON0034930 97258FAU.TXT 18 19 20 20 DAVID L. MILLER, RMR 21 22 23 Page 23 ADAD21-004629 HARTOLDMON0034931