Document 93nxKKrERDyL038Gj60D8NrmR

T. Marmor Page 97 - 1 at that time, and my knowledge of labor history 2 and labor political involvement made it very 3 unlikely that health and welfare funds would 4 have charged people who smoked differential 5 prices, so as to get involved in their personal 6 choices. 7 The'conclusion was.that health 8 insurance and the union movement at that period 9 Of time, some changes later, healthinsurance 10 at that period of time was directed at paying 11 for the cost of illness. It was not directed 12 at shaping up-people.. Those were the factual 13 claims that was the basis of my observation. 14 The basis for it was an extensive 15 review.'Of what was known -- what was in union 16 publications; what was in the general media, 17 wh'at<Was, on:televisions what was in government 18 reports; what was in interest group statements 19 and hearings, and that's the parallel.with what 20 I'm doing in connection with',asbestos. 21 Q. Were the boilermakers, to use the 22 term generally, thispension fund,.'Seeking 23 compensation from the tobacco company for . 24 injuries of their members; monies they paid out 25 fortheir members! illnesses? Page 99 ' 1 lawsuit? 2 A. I wasn't an expert in who cared 3 about what. What I cared about most was simply 4 whether it was true, that contention. And.I 5 said it is true that there is wide > 6 understanding of the dangers, and there was no 7 reason to believe that unions would haVe 8 differentially priced, which was a subpart of 9 the set of claims. 10 I didn't support, say anything' 11 about the veracity.of the tobacco.companies at 12 that particular time, but 1 have m-y own views. 13 Q. What are.your views? 14 A. Well, I think it's plain now, and-' 15 it was plain then too, that there were 16 considerable efforts to hide information'-that 17 just didn't work. . . . 18 Q. We left offat the seven years.in; : 19 Canada. ., 20 In a nutshell; tell,me after 21 that. After the seven years in Canada, not.. 22 including your study for Celotex and for the; 23 boilermakers-, whafother things you've done to 24 acquaint yourself with the topic of asbestos? 25 A. Those were the things that were Page 98 1 -A. That's correct.. 2 iQ. Was one of.their claims that the . 3 tobacco companies had withheld information . -. : 4 regarding the dangers of tobacco?, -. . 5 A. Absolutely. 6 Q. Did you reach an opinion 7 regarding the tobacco's companies .conduct? 8 A.. 1 wasn't.asked to. conclude that,,' . 9 but whatlsaid bearson-itjandwhatl-Wfotp,: - 10 says that nobody, cOuldconteitd at.that period; :. 11 of time that the daugers were notfknown; no 12 matter what the tobacco companies were doing,- 13 with hiding.information, That was the charge. 14 Irrespective ofwhat they-were up; 15 to, yoU'-couldn.'t sustain tbe.claim that these 16 health and welfare officials did n't know about 17 the dangers or-tbat they would have, had they 18 known, done this other thing; 19 . Q. Sort of "so what" defensej it 20 didn't matter what tobacco did or .didn't do, . 21 everybody knew, of the dangers regardless, so 22 who cares? . 23 A.. Not who cares, because you might 24 care for other reasons. 25 Q. Who cares as it relates to this Page 100 1 tbe dominant ones. It came up again in the 2 book that I wrote with my co-authors, America's 3 Misunderstood Welfare States That Is; health 4 and medical care was again an issue. 5 It came up as-well in a group 1 6 that I've been involved with in the last--: 7 well, since 1995,actually, whichis relevant to 8 the way I-think about these, topics.-.It's a. 9 group that is concerned about health and .' 10 healthcare comparatively.. ) 11 It has representatives that meet 12 once a year from Germany and Holland,-Canada 13 and the United States to discuss the current 14 state of disputes about health and healthcare. 15 and in connection with that,-asbCstOs. 16 Actually; asbestos litigation has 17 come up more than anything else. That is the 18 question about whether or not mass torts will 19 be a feature that will move to other 20 jurisdictions, whether arrangements to deal 21 with asbestos harms in Germany and the United 22 Kingdom have any bearing on what we should be 23 doing. That is the way in which it came up. 24 the public policy side of it. 25 Q. These are things that came up in POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY (314)421-0099 25 (Pages 97 to 100)