Document 8Xgx9aYwX4d2NGnkBLy2O07o

SUPERIOR COURT FOR THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES TRANSWESTERN PIPELINE COMPANY, PLAINTIFF, VS . MONSANTO COMPANY AND DOES ] THROUGH 200 INCLUSIVE, DEFENDANTS. ) ) ) ) ) ) ) NO. DC 026959 ) ) ) ) ) ) ) Deposition of Paul Flenignus October 14, 1992 GORE REPORTING COMPANY 100 North Broadway St. Louis, Missouri 241-6750 STLCOPCB4024949 1 SUPERIOR COURT 2 FOR THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 3 FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES 4 5 TRANSWESTERN PIPELINE 6 COMPANY, 7 0 Plaintiff, 9 1 0 vs . ) ) ) ) ) ) NO . BC 0 26 9 5 9 ]1 1 2 MONSANTO COMPANY AND ] 3 DOES 1 THROUGH 200 ) ) ) 1 4 INCLUS I VE , 15 1 6 Defendants 17 ), ) ) 1 8 Deposition of PAUL RENIGNUS, taken on 1 9 behalf of the Plaintiff at the offices of 2 0 Bryan Cave, One Metropolitan Square, in the 2 1 City of St. Louis, State of Missouri, on 2 2 October 14, 1992 before Marsha Birenbaum, 2 3 Registered Professional Reporter and Notary 2 4 Public . 25 GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024950 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 2 3 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 4 Ms. Janet M. Grady, o 5 Shearman & Sterling 6 725 South Figueroa Street 7 I. os Angeles, California 90017 8 9 FOR THE DEFENDANT: 1 0 Mr. Charles F. Preuss, oC 1 1 Bronson, Bronson & McKinnon 1 2 5 0 5 Montgomery Street ] 3 San Francisco, Cal i forni. a 9 4 111 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024951 1 INDEX 2 3 Examination by Ms. Grady 4 5 EXHIBITS 6 Exhibit 9 4 1 36 7 Exhibit 9 4 2 43 8 Exhibit 9 4 6 52 9 Exhibit 9 4 8 54 1 0 Exhibit 9 3 9 58 1 1 E x hi bit 9 4 0 58 1 2 Exhibit 9 4 9 59 ] 3 Exhibit 9 5 2 63 1 4 Exhibit 9 5 3 66 1 5 Exhibit 9 5 5 69 1 6 Exhibit 9 5 7 77 1 7 Exhibit 9 5 8 83 1 8 Exhibit 9 5 9 85 1 9 Exhibit 9 6 1 94 2 0 Exhibit 9 6 7 1 03 2 1 Exhibit 9 6 9 10 6 2 2 Exhibit 9 7 2 1 09 23 Exhibi t 866 ] 12 2 4 Exhibit 9 7 6 1 13 2 5 Exhibit 9 7 8 1 17 PAGE 6 GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024952 1 ibit 980 2 ibit 982 3 ib.it 9 8 6 4 ibit 992 5 6 7 a 9 10 11 ]2 13 14 15 ]6 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 19 1 2] 1 22 1 23 I GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024953 1 PAUL BENIGNUS 2 of lawful age, having been first duly sworn 3 to testify the truth, the whole truth, and 4 nothing but the truth in the case 5 aforesaid, deposes and says in reply to 6 oral interrogatories propounded as follows, 7 to-wit : 8 EXAMINATION 9 QUESTIONS BY MS. GRADY: 1 0 Q. Mr. Renignus, would you please 1 1 state and spell your name for the record? 1 2 A. Paul, R, as in boy, 1 3 B-e-n-i-g-n-u-s. 1 4 Q. And what is your current address? 1 5 A. 47 Metcalf, M-e-t-c-a-l-f, Drive. 1 6 Belleville, Illinois. 62223. 1 7 Q. Have you ever been deposed before? 1 8 A . Yes. 1 9 Q. How many times have you been 2 0 deposed? 2 1 A. Oh, I would say perhaps four. 2 2 Q. What was the first time you were 2 3 deposed? 24 A. The firstperiod of time how many 2 5 years ago? GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024954 1 Q. When was the first deposition 2 taken of you? 3 A. Well, I would say that goes back 4 six years, something like that. It wasn't 5 recent . 6 Q. And what was the nature of the 7 litigation? 8 A. I don't know if this is in order. 9 I'm trying to think of it. There was a 1 0 case that involved Westinghouse workers. 1 1 There was a case that involved a ] 2 transformer in San Francisco. There was a 1 3 case that involved an insurance company, I 1 4 guess that's about it. 1 5 Q. Do you remember what the fourth 1 6 deposition involved? I have got 1 7 Westinghouse workers, a transformer in San 1 8 Francisco, and a n i n s u r a nee c o m p a n Y 1 9 A . I don'' t r e a 1 iy know. 2 0 Q . Okay. Can w e g o off the record 2 1 for just a second? 2 2 (Discussion off the Record) 2 3 Q Back o n the record. Mr. Benignus 2 4 what was the sub j e c t matter of you r 2 5 testimony in the case involving GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024955 1 W e st inghouse workers? 2 A . The subject matter was PCRs. 3 Q And what was the allegation in 4 that liti g a ti on? 5 A . The allegation in this litigation 6 was t h a t the workers were exposed to PCBs. 7 Q And had the workers allegedly 8 suffered physical effects because of their 9 exposure to PCBs? 1 0 A . That seemed to be the idea. ] 1 Q And what subject matters did you 1 2 testify a bout? 1 3 A . I'm a technical person, and it was 1 4 in connec t.ion with technical questions. 1 5 Q Technical questions concerning the 1 6 manufactu ring of PCBs? ] 7 A . No . 1 8 Q Technical questions concerning 1 9 what subj e c t ? 2 0 A . The use of PCD. I would like to 2 1 expand on that. 2 2 Q Please do. 2 3 A . The presentation of the physical 2 4 Constance which describe PCBs; presentation 2 5 of their electrical characteristics; GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024956 1 p r es entation of their thermal stability. 2 Q . Was your testimony basically 3 concerning the chemical and physical 4 properties of PCRs? 5 A . Correct. 6 Q. Did you provide any testimony in 7 that Westinghouse case concerning the 8 environmental aspects of PCRs? 9 A . No. 1 0 Q. Did you testify at trial, in that 1 1 case? 1 2 A . No. 1 3 Q. What was the resolution of the 1 4 case, if you know? 1 5 MR. PREUSS: You may answer that 1 6 but don' t answer it if any information that 1 7 you have on that could have been received 1 8 from Mon santo lawyers. 1 9 A . I don't know. 2 0 Q In your deposition concerning a 2 1 transformer in San Francisco, what was the 2 2 allegation in that litigation? 2 3 A. A transformer failed. One 2 4 Plaza -- some address downtown. One Plaza 2 5 something. In the event of such a failure, GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024957 1 gas- is emitted; hydrogen chloride gas. 2 This gas was blown out through grills onto 3 the sidewalk. Some people outside of the 4 building were exposed to this. 5 Q. Did your testimony in that matter 6 involve in any way exposure to PCBs? 7 A . No. 8 Q. Did your testimony involve 9 clean-up of PCBs? 1 0 A. This is what it was all about. 1 1 Somebody cleaned it up. But my testimony 1 2 didn't contribute to that. I didn't tei 1 1 3 them how to clean it up. 1 4 Q. Did your testimony concern the 1 5 physical and chemical properties of PCBs? 1 6 A. Not that I recall, no. 1 7 Q. So it was primarily involved with 1 8 the release of these gasses? 1 9 A. Yes. 2 0 Q. Did you testify in that matter in 2 1 court? 2 2 A . No. 2 3 Q. Have you ever testified in court? 2 4 A . No. 2 5 Q. Let's turn to the third thing you GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 1A STLCOPCB4024958 1 mentioned, which was the insurance company 2 litigation. What was the allegation j n 3 that litigation? 4 A . May I y s omethi ng? 5 Q . Sure. 6 A . I didn really d o c u m 7 things. I didn really fix i 8 these things, have a 1 ways t 9 whatever anybod; wanted w h e r e v 1 0 gets somewhat c < fusing. So m 1 1 are involved here, I get lost in this 1 2 thing. This isn't my business. And I like 1 3 to answer your question, but I'm confused. 1 4 I just don't remember. I haven't fixed 1 5 that in my mind. It's often insurance 1 6 companies get involved inthese things. 17 Q. I understand. Doyou recall if 1 8 this third time that you gave a deposition 1 9 your testimony involved the physical and 2 0 chemical properties ofPCBs ? 2 1 A . I f I were asked t o testify a b out 2 2 this, this is what I can do , and ' I w o u 1 d 2 3 have. 2 4 Q. But you don't recall one way or 2 5 another what the deposition concerned GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 11 STLCOPCB4024959 1 itself with? 2 A. No, I don't. 3 Q. Okay. Mr. Benignus, I'm sure you 4 have had time to consult with Mr. Preuss. 5 Let me provide you with some instructions 6 so that we are both operating off of the 7 same page. a A. Okay. 9 Q. You understand that although we 1 0 are in a conference room in an informal 1 1 setting, that you are under oath, is that 1 2 correct? 1 3 A. That's correct. 1 4 Q. It's important that we get your 1 5 best testimony here today. If you do not 1 6 understand a question or think that you do 1 7 not understand a question, will you please 1 8 let me know? 1 9 A. Surely. 2 0 Q. You will have a chance to review 2 1 your testimony that you give here today in 2 2 the form of a booklet. I'm sure that you 2 3 have been through that process before. 2 4 A. Yes, I have. 2 5 Q. And you will have the opportunity GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024960 1 to make whatever corrections you believe 2 are appropriate to make the record 3 accurate. Do you unders tand that? 4 A. I understand th a t . 5 Q. It's important so that we get a 6 clear record that I try not to speak when 7 you're speaking and .if y ou would do the 8 same, that would be most appreciated . 9 A . Yes 1 0 Q M r . Beni gnus, c o u 1 d you summarize 1 1 for me your post h i g h sc h o o 1 e d u cation? 1 2 A . Yes . P o s t high s c h o o 1 . I 1 3 graduated in 1927. And then i n '29 I 1 4 entered Illinois College and g r a d u a t e d 1 5 there with a Bachelor de g r e e i n 1933. And 1 6 then I went to graduate school at 1 7 Washington University an d got a Master's 1 8 degree in organic chemis try. Then I went 1 9 to work. 2 0 Q. What year did y ou receive your 2 1 Master's degree? 2 2 A . '34. 2 3 Q. Where did you t ake your first job? 2 4 A. Monsanto. 2 5 Q. And are you ret ired from Monsanto? GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024961 1 A . Yes. 2 Q. And what year did you retire? 3 A . '74. 4 Q. Retween ]934 and 1974 was Monsanto 5 your only employer? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Did you take any classes during 8 your employment with Monsanto, and I'm 9 talking about university sponsored classes? 1 0 A. Yes, there were a few that I went 1 1 to Washington University at night and did 1 2 some more classes in the area of organic 1 3 chemistry . 1 4 Q. After your retirement from 1 5 Monsanto, have you been employed by 1 6 Monsanto in any way as a consultant? 1 7 A. Yes. 1 8 Q. And what was the nature of your 1 9 consultancy? 2 0 A. In the area of PCRs, dielectrics, 2 1 underscore dielectric. 2 2 Q. And when you use the term 2 3 dielectrics, what do you mean by that? 2 4 A. A dielectric is a resistance, an 2 5 insulator, against the electric current. GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 1A STLCOPCB4024962 1 Now, the insulation we are speaking of 2 here, FCFIs, that is liquid insulation as 3 versus solid insulation, which might be 4 cellu]osic material, wood and so forth. 5 Now, these liquid dielectrics, we are 6 talking here about PCFIs, to boil this down 7 and describe for you their specific use. 8 The two uses were in capacitors and in 9 transformers. Then there was some 1 0 incidental applications of dielectrics, 1 1 electromagnets, a few things. But that's 1 2 their primary use. 1 3 Q A s dielectrics? 1 4 A . A s dielectrics. 1 5 Q M r . Benignus, did you have a 1 6 of your e m p 1 oyment with Monsanto any 1 7 r e s p o n s i b i 1 i ty for lubricating fluids 1 8 A . No. 19 Q. Did youhave anycontact in your 2 0 employment with Monsanto with a company 2 1 called Texas Eastern Transmission Company? 2 2 A . No. 23 Q. What about a companycalled 2 4 Transwestern Pipeline Company? 2 5 A . No . GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024963 1 Q . D i d you have any con tact in your 2 o y m e n t with Monsanto, by that I mean 3 discuss ion w ith anyone or any 4 e s p o n d e nee. about the use o f PCRs in 5 natural gas compressors? 6 A . No. 7 Q. Are you familiar at all with the 8 mechanics of natural gas compressors? 9 A. I know what a compressor is. I 1 0 know what a gas line is. 1 1 Q. Do you know what a liquid seal is? 1 2 A. I know what a liquid seal is from 1 3 the chemistry laboratory where I frequently 1 4 employed various types of liquid seals in 1 5 our research apparatus. Yes, I know a 1 6 liquid seal. 1 7 Q. What is a liquid seal? 1 8 A. A liquid seal is exactly what it's 1 9 saying. It seals. 2 0 Q By means of a 1 i q u i d ? 2 1 A . By means of a 1 i q u i d . 2 2 Q And how i s the seal accompl 2 3 A . How is t h e seal accompl i she 2 4 Q How does a 1 i q u id seal some 2 5 in the use of a liqui. d seal? GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 1c STLCOPCB4024964 1 A. Now, I'm speaking of laboratory 2 apparatus . 3 Q. I understand. 4 A. And as a liquid seal, we might 5 take mercury, that's a liquid. Now, where 6 you have a union, a joint, that are fitted 7 together that are not sealed, say, with 8 a -- you understand what a glass joint seal 9 is? Here, for one reason or another, you 1 0 seek a different arrangement and it's very 1 1 convenient to use mercury as a liquid to 1 2 seal in this vessel so that it is sealed 1 3 from the atmosphere. 1 4 Q Did you have a n y f a m i 1 i a r i. t y i n 1 5 you r work at Monsanto w i t h the use of PCBs 1 6 a s liquid seals? 1 7 A . No . 1 8 Q In your work a s a cons u 1 t a n t for 1 9 Monsanto after your retirement, have you 2 0 done any work concerning the environmental 2 1 effects of PCBs? 2 2 A . Not I . 2 3 Q. Eias your consultancy been limited 2 4 to the physical and chemical properties of 2 5 PCBs? GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024965 1 A . Correct. 2 Q. Is your work -- was your 3 consultancy work related to the development 4 of new products? 5 A . Yes. 6 Q. Are you still working as a 7 consultant for Monsanto? 8 A . No. 9 Q. How long after you retired did you 1 0 act as a consultant? 1 1 A. I acted as a consultant for 1 2 Monsanto for six months. I will expand on 1 3 that. At that poi. nt in time people were 1 4 supposed t o be t h rown out at 65 , period. 1 5 Q And they wanted you for six months 1 6 after you turned 65 because of your value 1 7 to the company? 1 8 A . Well, you can put it that way 1 9 Q Were you w orking on any 2 0 part icular, on e par ticular project dur i n g 2 1 this 3 i X month peri od ? 2 2 A . It de alt w ith PCB di electri.cs for 2 3 the electrical i n d u stry, stri c t 1 y . Th a t ' s 2 4 what it was. 2 5 Q. Was it a part of your -- w e 1 1 , GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024966 1 let's back up. I haven't gotten your job 2 history. I want to go through your job 3 history. Obviously, with a forty year job 4 hist o r y , I'm sure that you held a number 5 p o s i t i o n s at Monsanto. S 0 what I would 6 like to do i s t o go through it or have you 7 go through i t job by job with just a brief 8 description o f y o ur basic job 9 responsibil i t i e s . If we can start in 1934 1 0 what was the first job you had with 1 1 Monsanto? 1 2 A. They were all in the technical 1 3 area. The first, which was standard, all 1 4 new trainees spent time in the analytical 1 5 laboratory to get acquainted with 1 6 materials, the chemicals being 1 7 manufactured. After spending, say, two 1 8 years in that area, the trainee, if he's 1 9 engineering oriented, he goes towards 2 0 engineering. If he's marketing oriented, 2 1 he goes that direction. If he i3 2 2 technically oriented, as I was, he goes 2 3 along the laboratory and research areas. 2 4 Now, after two years in the 2 5 analytical lab, I went into some advanced GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 1Q STLCOPCB4024967 1 analytical laboratory work. And t h e n I 2 went into laboratories called p 1 a n t 3 laboratories, more directly c o n n e c t e d with 4 the manufacture. You want me to p u t i n 5 time? 6 Q Yes, that would be good. 7 A . Well, we are up to 1939. At this 8 p o i n t , I was assigned to research 9 d e v e lopment. Excuse me, scratch that, 1 0 A pp 1 ication research, application 1 1 r e s e arch. Then by, I think, 1941 I was in 1 2 the organic chemical division development 1 3 d e p a rtment where I had my own laboratory, 1 4 and toward -- well, I would say 1946, I 1 5 went into what was called the sales 1 6 d e v e lopment department in a technical 1 7 c a p a city. 1 8 Now, in the interests of clarifying 1 9 this for you, this was all in the organic 2 0 chen icals division. Now, in October 1947 I 2 1 was invited to join the inorganic chemicals 2 2 d i v i sion. Now, the inorganic chemicals 2 3 d i v i sion happens to be the division that 2 4 m a n u factured the first PCBs. 2 5 Now, we will go to, oh, say, 19 -- GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI ?n STLCOPCB4024968 1 the early part of 1 9 5 1 . P C B s are our trade 2 name Aroc lor, you ' r e f a m i 1 i a r with that . 3 The hi era r c h y dec ided t o move t h e s e organic 4 chemicals -- they are half in organic, half 5 inorganic -- they dec ided to move these 6 into the organic c h e m icals division. So 7 from this approxi mate time 1951 until I 8 retired. I did as I w as told, to accompany 9 and go along with the aroclors and go into 1 0 the organ i c d i v i s ion. Now we are up to my 1 1 retiremen t . 1 2 Q What was you r position in the 1 3 organic d i v i s i o n b e t w een 1951 and 1974? 1 4 A . The same t h i ng. A technical 1 5 person . 1 6 Q Did you have a title? 1 7 A . I had a t i t 1 e . 1 8 Q What was i t ? 1 9 A . D o e s n ' t mean anything. 2 0 Q . Tell me a n y w ay. 2 1 A . Well, I was connected, even though 2 2 I was a t echnical per son, realize, I was 2 3 connected with, now. the marketing people, 2 4 And I was given. I d i dn't request this, I 2 5 was given a card that said my name. GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024969 1 marketing manager. I wish to clarify 2 this. This was given as a nice gesture. 3 It was specifically on dielectrics. I 4 wasn't active anywhere else. 5 And to expand on this, marketing at 6 that time was a rather sophisticated, 7 dignified way that earlier we just said 8 sales department, sales manager. Now, if 9 someone had given me a card with my name on 1 0 it as sales manager, I assure you, I would 1 1 have given it back. It would have made no 1 2 sense at all. These things happen. 1 3 Q. So even though your title was 1 4 marketing manager, you had no 1 5 responsibility for sales, is that right? 1 6 A. No, I didn't have a responsibility 1 7 for sales. 1 8 Q. Was it your responsibility to 1 9 provide technical advice concerning the use 2 0 of PCBs to customers? 2 1 MR. PREUSS: Are you talking about 2 2 PCBs generally or dielectrics? 2 3 Q. Dielectrics PCBs. 2 4 A. Yes, we are talking about 2 5 dielectrics. Yes, that's what it was. I I GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024970 1 would like to clarity -- I would like to 2 expand on this. 3 Q . Okay. 4 A. It wasn't that I advised them. 5 Rather, the other way around. The users 6 invented the use. It was their property. 7 At some periods originally it was 8 patented. No one could use it without 9 approval from the inventor. Now, they came 1 0 to Monsanto and asked Monsanto to 1 1 manufacture what they felt they wanted and 1 2 needed . 1 3 Now, in a situation like this, it's 1 4 the user, if you like the customer, that 1 5 has to specify what they think they need. 1 6 And not only this. They also have to 1 7 present the methodology to be used to make 1 8 this determination of these various 1 9 physical, chemical and electrical 2 0 properties. And this then arrives at an 2 1 agreement and understanding between the 2 2 supplier and the owner, the user. But 2 3 that's not the end of this process. 2 4 This tiling that gets carried on and 2 5 in the case of PCR dielectrics, properly GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUTS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024971 1 establ ished and documented, principa 1 1 y the 2 American Society For Testing and 3 Materials. Now, I was very active i n these 4 technical organizations. I did a lo t of 5 that. Not only then in our country, but 6 around the world. I think now you k now 7 what I did. 8 Q. What was it about PCRs that made 9 them good dielectric fluids? 1 0 A. There were -- I don't know in what 1 1 detail you want this. But I will tr y and 1 2 a n s wer it a s s h o r t as possible. The 1 3 d i s c o v e r e r , I ' m going back to 1 9 2 9 , the 1 4 d i s c o v e r e r and the inventor was the General 1 5 Electric Company. Mr. Frank Clark w as the 1 6 discoverer. 1 7 Now, h ere i s what h e s a w, ex p e c t e d 1 8 t o see , what i n t e res ted hi m i n PCB 1 9 d i elec trie. I w i 1 1 a d d r e s s the c a p a c i t o r 2 0 use because that is more definitive. 2 1 Prior, mineral oil was a dielectric, I t 2 2 was not of consistent quality. Capa c i t o r s 2 3 can be a very good bomb and explode, The 2 4 mineral oil was not of consistent qu a 1 i t y . 2 5 In contrast, a chemical manufacturer was GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 04 STLCOPCB4024972 1 able -- Monsanto, was able to make PCBs to 2 an exceptionally high degree of purity and 3 refinement, and repeat this and reliably do 4 so supply. 5 Now, obviously, PCBs are one of the 6 very few things known to be fire 7 resistant. And there are certain other 8 fire resistance materials. However, they 9 do not have the electrical integrity and 1 0 stability as do PCBs. Additionally, from 1 1 an economic point of view, PCBs have a 1 2 dielectric constant roughly twice that of 1 3 the mineral oil. If you wanted the exact 1 4 numbers -- 1 5 Q. No, that's okay. 1 6 A. This says that when you make a 1 7 capacitor with mineral oil, you come up 1 8 with a thing of this size. Now, why does 1 9 it have to be that size. I'm making a 2 0 comparison here. Well, you have to get the 2 1 heat out of it. This generates heat. You 2 2 can get the heat out through the surface, 2 3 the metal surface of the can. That's the 2 4 only place it can transfer the heat out of 2 5 it. If you don't dothis, it will consume GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI nc STLCOPCB4024973 1 itself. However, with PCBs, instead of 2 making a can this size, this red line here 3 is exact place. That's all you need. You 4 see this goes over. That's half the size. 5 Q. Mr. Benignus is pointing to a 6 coffee cup here t h a t ' s on the con ferenc 7 room table. So one a d v a n t a g e o f PCBs a 8 used as a d ielectri c is that they d i s s i 9 heat faster than other liquids? 1 0 A. No, I didn't say that. 1 1 Q. You need less of them than other 1 2 dielectric fluids? 1 3 A. What I said is this. To make a 1 4 capacitor with mineral oil, the thing has 1 5 to be twice as large, and that involves 1 6 heat trans f e r, as the size of a capacitor 1 7 that will do the same work with only half 1 8 the s i z e . This i s a t r e m e n d o u s economic 1 9 advantage . PCBs cost more than mineral 2 0 oil. Rut by the time you figu re the saving 2 1 of materials, it's a lot cheaper. When you 2 2 figure the space saving, especially 2 3 nowadays with our modern buildings full of 2 4 computers and what have you, space is very 2 5 expensive. This is a tremendous space GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024974 1 saver. 2 Q . What about the chemical stability 3 of PCBs? Does that play a role in their 4 benefits as a dielectric fluid? 5 A. Yes. They are very stable 6 materials. They are very refractory 7 materials. They are not influenced 8 adversely. I'm speaking as a dielectric, 9 by water. They do not hydrolize. It's not 1 0 an ester. They are r e s i stant, highly 1 1 r e s i stant , to co r r o s .i v e influences, acids, 1 2 alkali an d so to rth . 1 3 Q Do you have any familiarity with 1 4 the b e n e f its of PCBs a s opposed to mineral 1 5 oil when used as a 1 u b r i eating fluid? 16 A . N o . 1 7 Q So your e x p e r t i se or knowledge is 1 8 sole 1 y w i t h PCBs as d i e 1 ectrics? 1 9 A . Right . 2 0 Q Was it part o f your job in your 2 1 work with d i e 1 e c tries t o keep abreast of 2 2 t o x i city i n f o r m a t i o n con cerning PCBs? 2 3 A . Oh, I w o u 1 d say yes, but not from 2 4 the standpoint that I w a s an industrial 2 5 hygienist and certainly not a medical GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI on STLCOPCB4024975 1 person. 2 Q What a b out your job required you 3 to keep a b r e a s t of toxici t y i nformation 4 concerni n g P C FI s ? 5 A . Because people u sing PCB -- now we 6 are talking abou t t o x i c o logy - - needed to 7 be given guidanc e as to how to go about 8 using them. 9 Q . And how did that fall under 1 0 your -- are you talking about basically 1 1 industrial hygiene considerations, Mr. 1 2 Benignus? 1 3 A . I 'm talking a b out -- wel 1 , you 1 4 could call it that. I ' m talking about 1 5 health considerations, and of course 1 6 industrial hygiene is this. 1 7 Q. Health considerations of people in 1 8 factories that came in contact with PC8s? 1 9 A. Correct. 2 0 Q. And how did that fall under your 2 1 job responsibilities, this concern? 2 2 MR. PREUSS: Well, I'm going to 2 3 object. I think you're mischaracter i z i ng 2 4 it a bit. He said he did not have 2 5 responsibility as an industrial hygienist GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 28 STLCOPCB4024976 1 or as a medical doctor, but that he was 2 generally acquainted with those 3 considerations because he worked with the 4 product. 5 Q. And I didn't mean to imply 6 anything different. I'm just interested in 7 what part of your job entailed keeping 8 abreast of toxicity information. 9 A. Just because I was in contactwith 1 0 the users and disseminated the 1 1 information. And if I would write 1 2 anything, I took this into account. 13 Q. And what was yourunderstanding of 1 4 the toxicity of PCBs, let's say, in the 1 5 1940's? 1 6 A. In the 1940's, please specify what 1 7 part of the 1940's. 18 Q. Theearly 1940's. All right. Let 1 9 me strike that. There was some 2 0 breakthrough in the toxicity, the knowledge 2 1 of toxicity of PCBs that occurred in the 2 2 1940's such that information concerning 2 3 their toxicity changed greatly during that 2 4 decade? 2 5 A . No, no. GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024977 1 Q. Then back to the question of what 2 was your understanding of the toxicity of 3 PCBs during the early 1 9 4 0 ' s ? 4 A. All right. Whatever. My 5 first-hand knowledge and experience is 6 right down to earth. I worked with these 7 things. I can best explain it simply, 8 understandably, by saying, as we did say, 9 do notbreathe the vapors and the fumes 1 0 that would be emitted by PCBs at elevated 1 1 temperatures. If spilled on the skin or 1 2 the clothing, remove it by ordinary washing 1 3 with soap and water. That's quite broad. 1 4 Q. Were PCBs produced by Monsanto for 1 5 use in dielectrics labeled with this advice 1 6 in the 1940's? 1 7 A. Yes. 1 8 Q. . Where did the label appear? .1 9 A. The label appeared on the drums. 2 0 Now, let me -- 21 MR. PREUSS: You have answered the 2 2 question. She will ask another one. 2 3 Q. I will ask another one. What was 2 4 the advice not to breathe vapors or fumes 25 of PCBs based on, what was the GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI in STLCOPCB4024978 1 subs t a ntiation for that advice? 2 A . Well, as I well knew, becau s e 3 was s o exposed. the y w o u Id irritate the 4 m u c o u s and the eyes . T h e y were 5 irritating. However, this did serve, if 6 you will, they served their own warning. 7 If somebody has any sense and are exposed 8 to harmful amounts, they will know it 9 rather than not know it, they will remove 1 0 themselves. 3 1 Q. Other than irritation, what was 1 2 your understanding of the harm caused by 1 3 exposure to PCR fumes? 1 4 A . According to my understanding of 1 5 the medical literature, the PCEls would be 1 6 harmful to specific organs, the kidney and 1 7 the liver. 1 8 Q. Were you aware of any evidence 1 9 that tied kidney or liver injury to -- I 2 0 don't know what the word for this -- if you 2 1 got it on your skin rather than breathed in 2 2 the fumes? 2 3 MR. PREUSS: Dermal exposure. 2 4 Q. Dermal, thank you. 2 5 A. Oh, dermal exposure. No -- GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 1 STLCOPCB4024979 1 MR. PREUSS: I don't mind him 2 answering as a lay person,but he's not 3 qualified to deal with medical issues, nor 4 qualified by his job responsibilities. 5 A. Well, as a layperson, I do not 6 know of cases where exposure to PCRs caused 7 excessive liver and kidney damage. This is 8 not to say that there have been a few 9 isolated instances where such was reported, 1 0 however. And I did know about that. Now, 1 1 that gets to be acomplex subject. But I 1 2 was aware of a fewsuch instances. But in 1 3 general, no. 14 Q. Were the instancesthat you were 1 5 aware of reported in research studies, 1 6 published research studies? 1 7 A . Oh, yes. 1 8 Q , What was your familiarity i n 1 9 1 9 4 0 ' s with th e s ubstantiation for the 2 0 advice not to get TCRs on yo u r skin o r 2 1 you did, to wash them off? 2 2 MR. PREUSS: You mean what was in 2 3 the literature as opposed to common sense 2 4 when you felt the irritation? 2 5 Q. I don't think that we have had GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI *3 0 STLCOPCB4024980 1 testimony concerning dermal irritation 2 yet. Hut let me go back and restate the 3 question. Maybe it was too complicated. 4 You suggested that or you testified that 5 the advice provided in the 1 9 4 0 ' s was if 6 you spill a PCR containing liquid on your 7 skin or clothing, you should remove it by 8 ordinary washing. What was the scientific 9 substantiation as you understood it at that 1 0 time for that advice? 1 1 A. Nothing more was required than 1 2 just washing it off the skin. No unusual 1 3 stepsneeded to be taken other than simply 1 4 laundering the clothes in the washing 1 5 machine, or if you had -- I have often had 1 6 it onmy skin, and you just wash it off. 1 7 Q. What was your familiarity with the ] 8 published research concerning chloracne? 1 9 A. Chloracne? 2 0 Q. As it relates to PCBs rather than 2 1 other substances. 2 2 A. Right. In my, all my years, 2 3 chloracne never came up. Never heard of it 2 4 and never saw any evidence of it. However, 2 5 you're referring to published literature. GOREREPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI nn STLCOPCB4024981 1 Now, there is published literature that 2 ref e rs to chloracne. And at Swann 3 C h e m ical, which is in Anniston, Alabama, 4 they first made PCFs . When they first 5 b e g a n to make PCBs there was a brief 6 irci dent at Anniston of chloracne. Many 7 year s later I learned about this in a very 8 i n c i dental way. I wasn't concerned with 9 this 1 0 Now, getting back to this incident, 1 1 what I was told, and I believe this, they 1 2 neve r knew really the basis for this 1 3 b e c a use it didn't recur. Now, there is 1 4 c o n j ecture that's reasonable, they thought 1 5 it m ight have been a discrepancy in the 1 6 b e n z ene. PCBs are chlorinated biphenyl, 1 7 w h i c h is made from benzene. That's a 1 8 r e a s onable thing. No one was ever sure, 1 9 It w ent away. They didn't quite know why 2 0 it w e n t a w a y . 2 1 What I would like to say about this 2 2 now, on chloracne, in all the years I was 2 3 conn ected with it, that I worked with it, 2 4 that friend of mine worked much more 2 5 inti mately with it, they worked, open vats GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 1A STLCOPCB4024982 1 as big a s this table. PCB tub full of it. 2 C a p a c i tor sitting in there u n e r t h e liquid 3 about this far -- this is a 1 i quid seal, 4 incidently, the PCB sealed the i mpr egnating 5 hole through which the PCB ent ercd the 6 capacitor, and that was not to be e x p o s e d 7 to such a thing as horrible as this air we 8 are sitting in here. So we ha v e a liquid 9 seal. They were kept under the 1 i q u i d 1 0 surface, and then they soldere d it shut 1 1 under the liquid surface. The s e p e o p 1 e did 1 2 this day in and day out. Ther e was never 1 3 any toxicity problem. This wa s not a t 1 4 elevated temperature. This wa s ess ential ly 1 5 at ambient temperature. 1 6 Q. Was there, in your wo r k at 1 7 Monsanto in the 1940's, was th ere a library 1 8 of published reports concernin g PCB 1 9 toxicity? 2 0 A . Yes. 2 1 Q There was a central 1 o c a t i on where 2 2 the research was kept, is that right? 2 3 A . On toxici ty? 2 4 Q On health effects of P C B s . 2 5 A . Monsanto certainly ha d an GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024983 1 efficient medical department. They would 2 have had these publications, whatever. The 3 work was not done, the medical studies were 4 not done at Monsanto. Monsanto had 5 sponsored medical studies, oh, yes, they 6 o k e d into the se things. The toxicology 7 P C B s i 3 p u b 1 ished. Yes , there is a 8 ntral f i 1 e of this. 9 Q. Did you receive published reports 1 0 concerning the toxicology of PCRs on some 1 1 sort of routing list? In other words, when 1 2 a new published report concerning health 1 3 effects of PCB came out, did you 1 4 automatically get it? 1 5 A. No, I wasn't in line with the 1 6 d i cal and so on and so forth. But I most 1 7 k e iy would have run across it. a repo r t 1 8 by Drinker and others. 1 9 Q. Why don't we look at our first 2 0 exhibit, which is pre-marked as Exhibit 2 1 941. I will hand a copy to you, Mr. 2 2 Benignus, and to M r . Preuss and I will 2 3 describe Exhibit 9 4 1 as consisting of Bates 2 4 range of TRAN 01 6 7 8 9 through 016791. It 2 5 purports to be a 1 e 11 er dated December 30, GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024984 1 1947 from Mr. Benignus to Celanese 2 Corporati on of America. 3 What I would like you t o do with 4 this exhi bit and the other s t h a t I will 5 provide t o you is to look it o v e r s o that 6 you can a nswer the questio n w h e ther you 7 have seen the exhibit prio r to t o d a Y 8 A . Yes. 9 Q Did you draft Exh i b i t 9 4 1? 1 0 A . Yes. 1 1 Q And did you draft it a s pa rt of 1 2 your job responsibilities at Mo lisan to? 1 3 A . Yes. 1 4 Q How did you deter mine what the 1 5 best poss ible information about the 1 6 toxicity of Aroclor vapors was? 1 7 MR. PREUSS: Make sure , th a t ' s a 1 8 fairly te chnical question. if you want to 1 9 read the whole letter before you answer it. 2 0 Q. Absolutely. If at any time you 2 1 want to read all or any portion of a 2 2 document, you should feel free to do so. 2 3 A. Okay. 2 4 Q . And my question is, how did you go 2 5 about determining what the best available GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024985 1 or published information was about the 2 toxicity of Aroclor or PCBs? 3 A . The da t e on this is December 3 0 4 19 4 7 . I already told you t h a t I came t o 5 the organ i c d i v i s i o n -- e x c u s e me, to t h 6 inorganic division in, I think I said, 7 October- '47. Two months, I was there two 8 months. I'm surprised I could do such an 9 outstanding job in two months time. Now, I 1 0 was asked to write this at the 1 1 scussion - - at the request of Dr. 1 2 n k i n s . He had been the res earch or was 1 3 the research director. This is the 1 4 inorganic division -- yes, he was research 1 5 director at Anniston. He didn't think he 1 6 should do this. 1 7 Now, it's signed Development 1 8 Department. I was working under Paul 1 9 Logue, whose style was director of 2 0 development. In two months I was assistant 2 1 director of development. I was the 2 2 flunky. Now, when I read through this, I 2 3 had to be given guidance on such things as 2 4 the Journal of Industrial Hygiene and 2 5 Toxicology, which was in a file, and Dr. GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 38 STLCOPCB4024986 1 Drinker, Warren, Bennett, and whatever. 2 That was in a file in Pa u 1 L o g u e ' s off ice. 3 not my office. I ' m tell i n g you. I r e c e i v e d 4 guidance on th is t h i n g . It's w e 1 1 w r i t t e n , 5 isn't it? 6 Q Yes, it is. 7 A . Now, for the re s t of t h i 8 gets into skin patch t e s t . We 9 is where it came from. I wasn't conversant 1 0 with this myself, in two months. 1 1 Q. So you believe that you were there 1 2 only two months, that it was likely this 1 3 Exhibit 941 was the product of you being 1 4 directed to where the information could be 1 5 found? 1 6 A. Exactly. 1 7 Q. And then you summarizing the 1 8 information? 1 9 A. Yes. 20 Q.Mr. Benignus, down at the bottom 2 1 of page one there is a reference that I'm 2 2 interested in. It's in the last sentence 2 3 there. I'm talking about the first page of 2 4 Exhibit 941, where it states, "In general, 2 5 the more highly chlorinated biphenyls are GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024987 1 less toxic than the lower chlorinated 2 derivatives, probably due to decreased 3 solubility. " 4 Do you recall in your work at 5 Monsanto discussions or communications or 6 if you had the understanding that the lower, 7 chlorinated PCBs were more toxic than the 8 higher chlorinated PCBs? 9 A. Specifically, no. However, for 1 0 something to be toxic, it has -- toxic to 1 1 humans or anything else, it has to be 1 2 soluable, let's say, in water or body fluid 1 3 or something. If it's like a rock, it 1 4 won't come in contact. This is just a 1 5 basic premise. In an insecticidal thing, 1 6 it's no good unless it gets into the 1 7 insect. 1 8 Now, as I say here, the less 1 9 chlorinated ones are more soluable than the 2 0 higher chlorinated ones, which are resins, 2 1 solids. The liquids would certainly 2 2 probably go through the skin more readily 2 3 than a res.in will. That's all. 2 4 Q. What advice was provided to 2 5 customers of Monsanto, and I'm talking GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI a r\ STLCOPCB4024988 1 about dielectric customers, your particular 2 area, concerning disposal of PCBs, and let 3 me focus in this question on the period 4 prior to 1965? 5 A. On disposal -- I'm trying to think 6 of the date when Monsanto offered to take 7 back PCB, that's what you're asking? 8 Q. No, not exactly. What I'm 9 interested in is wheth e r any a d v i c e w 1 0 provided to customers about what t h e y 1 1 s h o u Id do wi t h used o r spent PCBs p r i 1 2 19 6 5 or t h e r e a b outs ? 1 3 A . I w ill beg i n this by saying no one 1 4 ever came to m e i n t h i s regard. I was not 1 5 at a 11 in v o 1 v e d i n t h i s regard. So what 1 6 advice wa3 given, to m y knowledge, nobody 1 7 ever asked for advice, I'm talking about 1 8 the electrical industr y. I can't think of 1 9 a single instance wher e anybody asked us, 2 0 how do you dispose of this, and they 2 1 certainly didn't ask m e. I was on the 2 2 other side of the fenc e. I was trying to 2 3 protect PCBs from envi ronmental -- adverse 2 4 environmental influenc es. Now, I wasn't on 2 5 the other side of the fence. But to answer GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024989 1 your question, I don't know that anybody 2 ever asked us, up to the time you're 3 saying, '65. 4 Q. Mid ] 9 6 0 ' s ? 5 A. Yes. I'm not aware of anyone in 6 the dielectric area. 7 Q. Was there any discussion at 8 Monsanto that you participated in or heard 9 prior to the mid 1960's about the 1 0 environmental aspects of PCBs? 1 1 MR. PREUSS: I'm going to object 1 2 to it as vague. What do you mean by 1 3 environmental aspects of PCB? 14 Q. Let me clarify that. Was there 1 5 any discussion or communication that you 1 6 were aware of or participated in at 1 7 Monsanto prior to the mid 1960's about 1 8 whether PCRs posed any kind of threat to 1 9 the environment because they were a stable 2 0 chemical? 2 1 A . No . 2 2 Q. When did you first hear about the 2 3 research done, the environmental effects of 24 DDTs ? 25 A. Of DDT? can't aive vou this as GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI A STLCOPCB4024990 1 a specific answer. However, my estimate 2 would be perhaps around this time you're 3 talking about. I'm not supposed to ask 4 quest:ons . That 's my be s t g u ess. What I ' m 5 saying is , I h e a r d about the objection t o 6 DDT long before anybody ever thought of any 7 objection to PCB. 8 Q. Why don't we take a break. We've 9 been going about an hour. 1 0 (Short recess) 1 1 Q. Back on the record. The next 1 2 exhibit I would like to show you, Mr. 1 3 Beni gnus. I have marked as Exhibit 942. 1 4 And I will describe it for the record as 1 5 cons i s t i n g of Bates range TRAN 011867 1 6 through 011947. It purports to be dated 1 7 April 27, 1948 and is entitled Final Report 1 8 On Aroclor Data Book. Mr. Benignus' name 1 9 appears on the second page of the exhibit 2 0 a s one of the recipients of the document. 2 1 M r . Benignus, my first question is whether 2 2 you recognise Exhibit 942? 23 A . Yes . 2 4 Q. What is Exhibit 942? 2 5 A. Well, it's a report written by R GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI A^ STLCOPCB4024991 1 Knight, April 27 19 4 8 2 Q Other than that. c a n you t e 11 me 3 if this was a - - can you tel 1 m e w h a t 4 Exhibit 9 4 2 was used for? 5 A . No. 6 Q. Doesn't look familiar to you? 7 A. Well, looking at here, the 8 contents look familiar. I have faint 9 recollection who R. R. Knight was. 1 0 Q. Well, let me ask you this. Was 1 1 there a -- was there a binder, a loose-le a f 1 2 binder system kept in the research 1 3 department that compiled information abou t 1 4 the various aroclors manufactured by 1 5 Monsanto? 1 6 A. Well, this was in one form or 1 7 another form kept, surely. 1 8 Q. But flipping through Exhibit 942 1 9 you don't remember this particular format 2 0 as a compilation of information about 2 1 aroclors? 22 A . No . 2 3 Q. Let me direct your attention the n 2 4 to first to the table of contents, which 2 5 starts on TRAN 011870,which is the numbe r GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSO U R I AA STLCOPCB4024992 1 down at the bottom. Up at the top of the 2 page it says page two. And then if yo u 3 continue over onto the next page, ther e is 4 a section called Uses Of Aroclors, fo] lowed 5 by a section called Physiological Effe c t s . 6 A . Yes . . 7 Q. And what I would like you to do is 8 to turn to what's marked at the bottom a s 9 page 011938, which is where the uses o 1 0 aroclors section starts. 1 1 MR. FREUSS: 938? 1 2 Q A m I wrong on t h a t ? I thin that 13 the firs t reference I saw up at e top 1 4 a Roman n umeral th ree , w h i c h 1 5 corresponds to the uses. But it doesn ' t 1 6 really matter, Mr. Benignus, because w hat I 1 7 would actually like you to look at, I' m 1 8 still kind of orienting you to the 1 9 document. What I would like you to lo ok at 2 0 is TRAN 011942, which up at the top sa y s 2 1 soil poison concentrate. 2 2 A. 942. Oh, yes, soil poison 2 3 concentrate. 2 4 Q. And your name is up there in the 2 5 right-hand corner, and on this particu 1 a r GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MI SSOURI STLCOPCB4024993 1 page it purports to be dated Ma r c h 1 1 , 2 1 9 4 8. What I'm interested in. and perhaps 3 this page refres hes your recoil e c t i on, is 4 the u se of arocl ors as soil poi sons 5 MR. PREUSS: What's the question? 6 Q W h e t h e r he has any re 7 use, 8 A . They w e r e n ' t really u 9 Q What 13 3. 3 oil poison 1 0 A . Well, you s ee here is 1 1 pentachlorophenol. Pentachlorophenol use 1 2 was as a wood preservative, to protect wood 1 3 against termites. One way of doing this is 1 4 to pressure treat, or just dip treat it, 1 5 atmosphere, the untreated wood, say, a 1 6 two-by-four, into a solution of 1 7 pentachlorophenol. Now, the 1 8 pentachlorophenol protects the wood against 1 9 the attack by termites and other soil 2 0 mites. Now, versus this procedure, where 2 1 the wood is treated. 2 2 Another way i t can be approache 2 3 i f for some reason you don't want to tr 2 4 the wood, you don't have facilities for 2 5 d o i ng that, if you dig a hole and you j GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024994 1 pour this into the hole. then i t a pproaches 2 it from that way as a pro t e c t i o n a gainst 3 term i tes . And that 's w h a t this t h i n g is, 4 is a s o i 1 poison. 5 Now, the other th i ngs a r c just as 6 carriers Cor the pentachl 0 r o p h e n 0 1 7 Aroclor is not biological 1 y act i v e . It's 8 not an insecticide or mit i c i d e , f u n g i c i d e , 9 so on and so forth. Pent a c h 1 o r 0 ph c n o 1 , 1 0 that would be the active ingred 1 e n t in this 1 1 thing. The rest are conv e n i e n t c a rriers 1 2 for this, whoever got thi s thin g u p . This 1 3 was written, incidentally , a t A n n i s t o n, not 1 4 by us in St. Louis. 15 Q. Do you recall in March well, do l 6 you recall ever suggestin g the u s e o f 1 7 aroclors as a soil poison in t h e c o n t e x t 1 8 that you have described, the us e o C soil 1 9 poisons? 2 0 A. No. And it was never u s e d that 2 1 way, to my knowledge. 2 2 Q. Could I direct your att e n tio n to 2 3 the last two pages ofthis exhib 1 t , which 2 4 are011946 and 11947. 2 5 A. 11946? GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS , MISSOURI A "7 STLCOPCB4024995 1 Q. Right. It's headed up at the top 2 Morphologic a] Changes In The Livers Of Rats 3 Resulting From Exposure To Certain 4 Chlorinated Hydrocarbons. 5 MR. PREUSS: Do you want him to 6 readthat? 7 Q. I don't want you to read the whole 8 thing, no. What I'm interested in, Mr. 9 Benignus, is whether you recall some sort 1 0 of compilation of -- if this refreshes your 1 1 recollection concerning whether there was a 1 2 compilation of toxicity information 1 3 available to members of the inorganic 1 4 division concerning aroclors? 1 5 MR. PREUSS: Well, just for the 1 6 record, on the top it says that it's from a 1 7 Journal Of Indus tri a 1 Hygiene and 1 8 Toxicology, volume 2 0 , number two. February 1 9 1938. So I object t o the form of the 2 0 question as a s s u m i n g facts not in evidence. 2 1 no foundation. 2 2 A. Is there a question open? 2 3 Q. Yes. I will ask it again, 2 4 though. Does seeing this document refresh 2 5 your recollection, cause you to remember, GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI /i p STLCOPCB4024996 1 whether or not there was some sort of 2 compilation of documentation concerning 3 toxicity of PCBs available to members of 4 the inorganic division? 5 A . I would have to say yes , sure. 6 Q And was the information kept in 7 notebooks? 8 A . I don ' t know. Publ i s h e d reports 9 would be p u b 1 i shed report. I don'' t know 1 0 what you mean by a notebook. 1 1 Q When I ask whether there was a 1 2 compilation, I guess what I'm asking is, do 1 3 you recall there being a handbook or one 1 4 source document in the inorganic division 1 5 that had all the information about aroclors 1 6 that staff members might need? 1 7 A. Not in that form, not to my 1 8 knowledge. I didn't. In fact, I don't 1 9 recall this thing. 2 0 Q Ho w were new uses of aroclors 2 1 approved in the i norganic division, do 2 2 have know ledge of that? 2 3 A. Please say it again? 2 4 Q. Sure. How were new uses of 2 5 aroclors approved in the inorganic GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4024997 1 division, if you know? 2 A. In the inorganic division? 3 Q. In the '40's you were still in the 4 inorganic division? 5 A. Right. How were new uses 6 approved. I suppose whoever wanted to use 7 these materials for their given purpose or 8 use, they would make that judgment, and if 9 we heard about it, we would be interested, 1 0 obviously. And the best thing I know of, 1 1 to answer your question, really goes before 1 2 my time, where somebody wanted to use PCBs 1 3 as a plasticizer in bubble gum. Well, we 1 4 didn't think that was a use that we would 1 5 approve of, and knowing the intention of 1 6 that use, we brought it to the attention of 1 7 these people and sa.id no, we don't think 1 8 that that is a thing that we approve of. 1 9 In fact, we made it to the point, we are 2 0 not going to sell it to you for this. 2 1 Q. Do you recall during World War II 2 2 aroclors being used in the production of 2 3 cable by the Navy? 2 4 A. Certainly. 2 5 Q. And were there a number of GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI qn STLCOPCB4024998 1 chloracne case s that were reported with 2 such use? 3 A . Yes. w o u 1 d you repeat yo u r 4 question? 5 Q Sure. I'm r eferring you t o 6 whether y o u re c a lied production of cable by 7 the Navy d u r i n g World War II where they 8 used aroc 1 o r s i n the production of the 9 cable. 1 0 A . A r o c 1 o r was a component. 1 1 Q And d o you r ecall -- then the 1 2 second qu e s t i o n that you have alre a d y 1 3 answered. I g u e s s , w a s that you re called 1 4 that ther e w e r e repor ts of chlorac n e ? 1 5 A . Yes. 1 6 Q In th e f a b r i cation of the cable? 1 7 A . Yes. 1 8 Q Did M o n santo ever determi n e what 1 9 the cause of the c h 1 o racne was? 2 0 A . Monsa n t o did not determin e this 2 1 per s e. This w a s don e by medical people in 2 2 the state of N e w York . And you as k e d was 2 3 aroclor u s e d , w a s t h a t it? Aroclo r was a 2 4 component , and I actually don't th ink or 2 5 recall th at t h i s was PCB. I'm pre tty sure GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS , MISSOURI 51 STLCOPCB4024999 1 it was in that term PCT, chlorinated turf 2 phenol, which is a resin, versus the liquid 3 aroclors. They were used in combination 4 with Halowax, chlorinated naphthalene. 5 Now, the medical investigation 6 brought out that the two things the 7 aroclor, and I think it was what we call 8 sanowax aroclor, this was before my time, 9 but that would be the resinous, not the 1 0 turf phenol base. That, in combination 1 1 with the chlorinated naphthalene, had a 1 2 synergistic effect that they spoke of and 1 3 it was worse than either one alone. 1 4 Now, the result of this, I do 1 5 recall from being told, was that 1 6 chlorinated naphthalene, Halowax, was 1 7 removed and not used. They continued. 1 8 however. t o use the aroclors . And as I 1 9 told you , I t h i nk that was a turf phen o 1 2 0 Aroclor. 2 1 Q Let m e s h o w you the n e xt exhi 2 2 w h i c h I have p r e - m arked as Exhi bit 9 4 6 2 3 w h i c h I will d e s c r i b e for the r e c o rd a 2 4 consisting of Bates range TRAN 054092 2 5 through 054094, which purports to be a GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4025000 1 memorandum dated June 29, 1953 from Mr. 2 Benignus. Subject, Aroc lor, extreme 3 pressure lubricating additive for greases 4 and gear oi 1 s . And if you could look over 5 Exhibit 946 s o that you can tell me i f you 6 drafted it. M r . Benignus, that wo u 1 d be the 7 first inquiry. 8 A . Whether my name is s i g n e d - - ye 9 my name is s i g n e d on here. 1 0 this. Yes , I r e m e m 1 1 Q You drafted Exhibit 946? 1 2 A . Yes, I draft e d this. 1 3 Q And Exhibit 946 relates t o 1 4 possible sale of aroc lors for use as -- in 1 5 conjuncti on with oils and greases used in 1 6 machinery to create animal feed, is that 1 7 right? 1 8 A . I'm reading this. I didn't listen 1 9 to your question. Let's get back to it. 2 0 MR. PREUSS: You're going to have 2 1 to read it to answer that question. 2 2 Q. That's okay, go ahead and read 23 it . 2 4 A. Okay. 2 5 Q. Mr. Benignus, do you recall GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 53 STLCOPCB4025001 1 Monsanto marketing aroclors for use with 2 greases or oils in farmmachinery? 3 A . No. 4 Q. No recollection of the events that 5 reflected in exhibit -- 6 A. This "X"-disease in cattle, I 7 remember when that thing came up, and I do 8 recall that part of it. But that we sold 9 or that any was used in this,no. But the 1 0 Halowax was used and the cattlegot this -- 1 1 well, like acne of the lips, andas I said, 1 2 they found that Aroclor doesn't do this. 1 3 Q. A.ll right. Next document,exhibit 1 4 I have marked as Exhibit 948.I don't want 1 5 you to read the whole thing. 1 6 A. No, I know everything that's in 1 7 here. I will make it simple for you. 1 8 Q This exhibit consist of Bates TRAN 1 9 017052 through 017036, and it purports to 2 0 be something called The Proper Handling Of 2 1 Aroclors And Their Mixtures In The 2 2 Electrical Industry. And it is dated 2 3 12-1-54, and it shows Mr. Benignus on the 2 4 first page of -- or the cover sheet, I 2 5 guess it is, which is 017054. And my GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI CA STLCOPCB4025002 1 question is if you recall Exhibit 948? 2 A . Yes. 3 Q . And w h at is it? 4 A. This i s a typewritten com pi 1 a t i o n 5 0 E i nforma tion specifically on the s u b j e c t 6 of a skarel diel ectrics. And this -- 7 Q. Mr. Be nignus is referring t o 8 E x h i bit 946. 9 A. All ri ght. This -- and it' s also 1 0 head ed phosphat e division. That was the 1 1 1 nor ganic divis ion. I think I told you I 1 2 t r a n sferred to the organic division, what 1 3 did I say, in ' 52, was it? 1 4 Q . I will check my notes. You said 1 5 19 4 7 1 6 A . That' s when I went t o the 1 7 i n o r g a n i c d i v i sion. 1 8 Q Sorry . You i n d i c a t e d early 1951 1 9 is w hen you went back to the organic. 2 0 A . Cross that o u t and 1 e t ' s make 2 l that -- what's the d a t e of t h is thing? 2 2 Q This purports to h a v e a date of 2 3 D e c e liber 19 5 4 on it. 2 4 A . This is 1954? Maybe that is 2 5 r e p r int, however. 1954, December. Well, GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI * =; STLCOPCB4025003 1 you see here, I was in the organic 2 division. So maybe that 1951 was a little 3 earlier than it should have been, if you 4 want to make that correction. 5 Q. Okay. What is Exhibit 948, which 6 is the thick one there in front of you? 7 A. This is dated December 1954. What 8 occasioned this was General Electric, who 9 invented PCB dielectrics in 1929 or'30, by 1 0 this time 1954 their use patents had 1 1 expired. Because of this and since GE is 1 2 the owner and the people who license others 1 3 to use it and since their patent expired, 1 4 they made a change. They said, why should 1 5 we bother with arranging for our licensees 1 6 to get shipments of Aroclor, PCBs. When 1 7 actually they can go to Monsanto without 1 8 bothering us. In essence, GE turned over 1 9 to Monsanto the commercial handling and 2 0 distribution and billing of PCB 2 1 dielectrics, so people who formerly were so 2 2 served by General Electric. 2 3 Now, here at Monsanto in the 2 4 organic division there is a so-called sales 2 5 department and people are called salesmen, GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI ^ STLCOPCB4025004 1 and they go around to call on these users 2 who had bought in the past from GE. Well, 3 there is nothing quite as sad as a salesman 4 who is a bit nervous coming in with 5 something that he really never heard about, 6 knows nothing about. And the intent here 7 was to provide these people, salesmen, with 8 something to go in with when they would 9 call. And you see it's written up in the 1 0 typewriter, it was never put into print. I 1 1 visualized this thing as something that 1 2 maybe they would have need for, oh, maybe 1 3 25 copies. I was appalled at how many of 1 4 these things were printed. Who in the 1 5 world has need for this? It's very 1 6 specific. It's PCD dielectrics. Rut a lot 1 7 more went out than I ever realized. We had 1 8 to retype this thing. 1 9 And to further describe it, it 2 0 presents in great detail the methodology 2 1 posted at A . S . T . M . Now , i f y o u're going to 2 2 talk about s o m e t h i n g i n the d i electric 2 3 area. you b e 11 e r be t h o rough . That's a 2 4 very critical application. People have 2 5 asked, why do you go into all of this GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4025005 1 detail. Well, I'm not about to sign my 2 name to something that gives a half-baked 3 discussion of it. 4 So these are essentially procedures 5 used in our laboratory, confirmed with GE, 6 used at GE, posted officially at A.S.T.M. 7 for everybody. That's essentially what 8 this is. So if someone wants to' use it, 9 instead of having to get the A.S.T.M. book 1 0 and so forth, well, here it is. 1 1 Q The next exhibit I would like to 1 2 show you is exhibit -- I'm going to hi and 1 3 you two of them at the same time. Exhibit 1 4 939 and Exhibit 940. Exhibit 939, for the 1 5 record, is a one page document bearing 1 6 Bates number TRAN 053668. Purports to be 1 7 dated 3-16-55. Mr. Benignus is shown as 1 8 the submitter. It's a form that's labeled 1 9 at the top Agricultural Fungicide Screening 2 0 Report. Exhibit 940 is a single page 2 1 document bearing Bates number TRAN 053669. 2 2 It's a form at the top labeled Agricultural 2 3 Fungicide Screening Report. It purports to 2 4 be dated 3-16-55 and Mr. Benignus is shown 2 5 as the submitter. GORE- REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI pp STLCOPCB4025006 1 And my question Mr. Benignus i s , 2 is this your handwrit ing at the bottom of 3 Exhibit 9 3 9 ? 4 A . No . 5 Q And 940? 6 A . No . 7 Q Do you have any recollection of 8 these exhibits? 9 A . A C t u a 1 1y, no t. Chemcal. If you 1 0 were to ask m e what i s Chemcal, I would say 1 1 I never h e a r d of it. But here it says it's 1 2 chlorin a t e d b i phenyl 60 percent chlorine. 1 3 MR. PREUSS : I think it's 1 4 chemical . 1 5 A. Oh, the word chemical, okay. 1 6 Excuse me. No, I have -- 1 7 Q. Do you have any recollection of 1 8 proposing the use of aroclor products or 1 9 products that contain aroclors for use as 2 0 fungicides? 2 1 A. No. It's not a fungicide to begin 2 2 with. 2 3 Q. All right. Let me show you the 2 4 next exhibit. which is Exhibit 9 4 9 , which 2 5 is a one page document b e a r i n g Bates number GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 59 STLCOPCB4025007 1 TRAN 053676. It purports t o b e d a 2 30, 1955. I t ' s labeled at t h e top 3 Technical Sa 1 e s Report. A n d M r . B 4 name appearsup at the top as a Monsanto 5 representative. It's a long list of cc's 6 over on the right side. Mr. Benignus, do 7 you recall Exhibit 949, seeing it prior to 8 today? 9 A. My name is on it, so I should be 1 0 able to recall it. 1 1 Q . Did y o u visit the Department of 1 2 Agriculture in Beltsville, which is just 1 3 outside of Washington? 1 4 A . No. 1 5 Q. Did you have any involvement in 1 6 the use of aroclors as insecticides? 1 7 A. No. In fact, I just told you it's 1 8 not an insecticide. 1 9 Q. Do you recall Aroclor being used 2 0 in insecticides to extend the life of the 2 1 active ingredients? . 2 2 A. Yes, there was an article 2 3 published to this effect. Now, again, 2 4 aroclor here, this is a turf phenol 2 5 aroclor, a solid. It's not a liquid; it's GORE1 REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI e. n STLCOPCB4025008 1 a solid. And the idea here is sort of like 2 Advil; that 's aspirin coated with s 0 m e t h i n g 3 that when i t goes into the stomach i t 4 dissolves m ore slowly. Do I have t h i s 5 right? 6 Q No . 7 A . Something else, whatever. And 8 here the idea, as I understood it, w 0 u 1 d be 9 that this resinous material would ac t a s a 1 0 sticker around the Lindane, I think it was, 1 1 on Lindane, and that that would caus e the 1 2 Lindane to be released more slowly, It was 1 3 not an enhancement of the potency of the 1 4 Lindane by any means. It was just a 1 5 t h o u g h t o f a s some thing t h a t w o u 1 d c a u s e it 1 6 t o be r e 1 e a s e d m o r e slowly I don't recall 1 7 o f anyone e v e r g o i n g c o m m e rci a 1 with this. 1 8 But s o m e o n e o b v i o u sly was i n v e s t i g a t 1 n g 1 9 thi s sort o f thing . It c a m e t o m y 2 0 a 11 e n t i o n I just passed i t a 1 o n g . That's 2 1 all . M r . w . M . S u 1 1 i v a n . 2 2 Q D 0 y o u recall any m e e t i n g s with 2 3 the D e p a r t m e n t o f Agricult u r e during your 2 4 employment at Monsanto? 2 5 A . No . GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4025009 1 Q. Do you recahllaving any 2 responsibility for any aspect of the 3 marketing of products that contained 4 aroclors foragricultural uses? 5 A . No. 6 Q. This Lindane situation, where the 7 proposed usewas to somehow use aroclors in 8 conjunction with Lindane as an 9 insecticide -- 1 0 MR. PREUSS: Well -- 11 Q. That is a preamble. I don't mean 1 2 to misstate. I'm just directing his 1 3 attention back to his testimony. I realize 1 4 that is at best a paraphrase. With regard 1 5 to the proposed Lindane product, do you 1 6 recall any discussions concerning toxicity 1 7 of aroclors? 1 8 A. On my part? 1 9 Q. Let me make myself more clear. In 2 0 this product proposed where aroclors would 2 1 be used with Lindane, do you recall any 2 2 discussions that you participated in or 2 3 heard with Monsanto employees concerning 2 4 the toxicity of aroclors? 2 5 . A . No. GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4025010 1 Q A 1 1 right. The next exhibit is 2 9 5 2 , w hi c h is a one page document bearing 3 Bates n u m b e r TRAN 0 5 4 9 2 4 , purportedly dated 4 August 1 0 , 1 9 5 9. S u b j e c t, California 5 requirem e n t for Mon santo labels on pyranol 6 and in e r tee n . A u t h or, R obert Si do , 7 S - i - d - o . M r . Be nig n u s i s shown as a cc. 8 A . I r e m e m ber this 9 Q S o you r e c all E xhibit 952, is that 1 0 correct? 1 1 A . Correc t 1 2 Q A n d you r e call that there was a n l 3 issue conce r n i n g a Calif o r n i a 1 a b e ling law 1 4 that requir e d c e r t a in in formation to be 1 5 provided o n c o n t a i n e r s o f pyranol and 1 6 inerteen , i s t h a t c o r r e c t ? 1 7 A . Co rrect 1 8 Q D i d you h a v e re sponsibility for 1 9 labeling o f prod u c t s t h a t contained 2 0 aroclors 7 2 1 A . No 2 2 Q Do you rec all b eing asked to 2 3 approve the c a u t ion 1 a b e .1 for pyranol and 2 4 inerteen P r o d u c t s ? 25 A . I was n ' t a sked , no . GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 63 ' STLCOPCB4025011 1 Q . There is a reference in this 2 Exhibit 952 to Paul Denignus has agreed 3 that pyranol and inerteen containers shall 4 carry the caution statement, and then there 5 is text that has a cautionary statement 6 concerning the use of the product and 7 includes the language "contains chlorinated 8 hydrocarbons." Do you have any 9 recollection of being asked to agree to the 1 0 use of this particular caution label that's 1 1 shown in Exhibit 952 on pyranol and 1 2 inerteen? 1 3 A. Certainly it needed to be on the 1 4 drums. 1 5 Q S o it's your recollection that it 1 6 was on the drums prior to 1959? 1 7 A . W e used it in the past, y e s . 1 8 Q. So do you have any recollection of 1 9 what the issue was in 1959 with regard to 2 0 the California labeling law? 2 1 A. No, this is the first I heard of 2 2 itbythismemo. 2 3 Q - There i s a referen c e i n t h i s 2 4 memorandum to the s tencilin g o f py ra n o 2 5 inerteen c o n t a i n e r s . Was i t t h e p r a c t GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4025012 1 at Monsanto with regard to at least 2 dielectric products that contained aroclors 3 to stencil product information on the 4 drums? 5 A. I really don't know. You see -- 6 and this is now the organic division versus 7 the inorganic division, and I really can't 8 answer your question. I don't know. And I 9 didn't go out in the plant to look at any 1 0 drums. And most of the people I was 1 1 dealing with in dielectrics -- however, 1 2 this did mention the company. Most of that 1 3 I dealt with dealt in tank cars. But this 1 4 does -- oh, Gerald Hopkins,, T h e y did use 1 5 drums. Hell, it says they used drums. 1 6 That's where this thing came up. Most of 1 7 the dielectric users used tank cars, not 1 8 drums. But here is a case where somebody 1 9 used drums and that label was supposed to 2 0 be on there. That's what I'm saying. 2 1 Q. How do you know that this label 2 2 was on drums of dielectric aroclors prior 2 3 to 1959? 2 4 A. Because that was -- well, prior to 2 5 1959? Let me answer it in general. In the GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4025013 1 inorganic divi s i o n w e were religious about 2 this. 3 Q About what? 4 A . About having the lab el on the 5 drum. 6 Q So it was your under standing that 7 prior to 19 5 9 8 A . It w a s . 9 Q This label was on th e drums? 1 0 A . Yes. 1 1 Q Okay. The next exhib it is 953, 1 2 which is a one page document bearing Bates 1 3 numbers 054922 . Purports to be a 1 4 memorandum fro m Robert Sido, dated August 1 5 19, 1959 . M r . Benignus is sh own as a cc 1 6 and the s u b j e c t is labeling a roclors , 1 7 pyranols , iner teens. Ask you to take a 1 8 look at E x h i b i t 953 and tell me if you 1 9 recall s e e i n g it prior to tod ay2 0 A . Well, I got a copy o f this. I 2 1 understa n d w h a t it says. It talks about 2 2 the same label that we are ta Iking about 2 3 there . And it ' s dated August 19. This 2 4 other on e was dated August 18 . So it got 2 5 attentio n . GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI r STLCOPCB4025014 1 - Q. Do you recall approving the use of 2 a warning that included the term "contains 3 chlorinated hydrocarbons" for all aroclor 4 products sometime in 1959? 5 A. Repeat that question, please? 6 Q. Sure. Do you recall sometime in 7 1959 agreeing to or approving the use of a 8 caution label that includes the terms 9 "contains chlorinated hydrocarbons" for all 1 0 aroclor products? 1 1 A. I didn't approve it, but I wasn't 1 2 in the labeling department. You're saying 1 3 chlorinated hydrocarbons? 1 4 Q. Right. That's the text shown on 1 5 Exhibit 953, ''caution, contains chlorinated 1 6 hydrocarbons," followed by some 1 7 additional -- 1 8 A. Well, the labeling people had a 1 9 reason for calling it chlorinated 2 0 hydrocarbons. Now, what went through their 2 1 minds on that, I don't know. 2 2 MR. PREUSS : The question was 2 3 whether you recall agreeing to this 2 4 particular label for all aroclor products. 2 5 I think it says all aroclors, pyranol and GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI "7 STLCOPCB4025015 1 inerteen containers, is what it says here. 2 A. Well, I have no record that I 3 formally disagreed with it. But I can see 4 this would be a broader connotation than if 5 one said chlorinated biphenyl and then you 6 had aseparate label for chlorinated turf 7 phenol. Now, I don't ever recall having 8 separate labels to that extent. 9 Chlorinated hydrocarbons, incidentally, 1 0 can, under that heading, include things 1 1 that aren't PCBs to begin with. So it's a 1 2 matter of semanticsthat I wasn't called in 1 3 and asked about. 1 4 Q. What's a chlorinated hydrocarbon 1 5 that doesn't constitute a PCB? 1 6 A. Well - 17 MR. PREUSS: Or a PCT as he just 1 8 testified to? 1 9 A. Or a PCT. 2 0 Q. Well, I guess a PCT would be one. 2 1 A hydroch1orinated hydrocarbon that was not 2 2 a PCB. 2 3 A. That's correct. 2 4 Q. Can you give me another example 2 5 that would be a chlorinatedhydrocarbon GORE REPORTING COMPANY . ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI R STLCOPCB4025016 1 that would not be a -- 2 A. Trichlorobenzyl . Chlorinated 3 benzene is a chlorinated hydrocarbon . 4 Those are in the aromati c family than in 5 the oliphatic. Then in the aromatic, you 6 can have a whole variety of them; 7 hydrotetrachloride, a lo t of things, 8 That's a rather broad co nnotation that I 9 don't object to now and I didn't object 1 0 then. But someone in la beling selected 1 1 that. And the only thou ght I can give you 1 2 is that, and I'm not sur e this is what went 1 3 through their minds -- 1 4 M R . P R E U S S : W e 11, don't speculate 1 5 on w h a t m i g h t be .i n t h e i r minds. 1 6 Q Yes, you d o n ' t need to speculate, 1 7 A I t h ink I a n s w e red your question. 1 8 Q You did. t h a n k s very much. Let me 1 9 show Y o u the next e x h i b i t, which is Exhibit 2 0 9 5 5. B e f ore I h a v e you look at this, Mr. 2 1 Beni gn u s , can you e x p 1 a i n for me how an 2 2 a s k a r e 1 , the term a s k a r e 1, differs from the 2 3 term a roc lor? 2 4 A Yes. T h a t ' s an important thing, 2 5 A s k a r e 1 i s a g e n e r i c n a m e used officially GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI Q * STLCOPCB4025017 1 and so documented at the American Society 2 For Testing and Materials. Now, to qualify 3 as an askarel, the dielectric, we are 4 talking dielectrics, must be approved and 5 conform with what the Fire Insurance 6 Underwriters require to be allowed to use 7 this name askarel. Now, all PCBs are not 8 askarels. 9 Now, how does askarel differ from 1 0 aroclor, that was the question? Aroclor is 1 1 Monsanto's trade name, which is comparable 1 2 to General Electric's trade name of 1 3 pyranol. Westinghouse used inerteen. 1 4 Allis Chalmers used Chlorextol. Wagner 1 5 used Norforpamol. People pick their own l 6 trade names. 1 7 Now, those were askarels approved 1 8 by the Fire Underwriter Laboratories 1 9 tests. And that input from the Fire 2 0 Underwriters Laboratories was put into the 2 1 A.S.T.M. requirements. So if something was 2 2 called an askarel, you could be sure it 2 3 meant the Fire Underwriters requirements as 2 4 a dielectric. 2 5 Q. Thank you. Let me describe GORE REPORTING COMPANY . ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 7n STLCOPCB4025018 1 Exhibi t 9 5 5 f o r the record . It's a multi 2 page document b e a r i n g Bates range TRAN 3 054852 through TRAN 054862. I would 4 actual 1 y like you to look at this 5 document. It's headed Review Of 6 Transformer A s k a r e 1 , dated July 1962 and 7 the initial PGB --actually. the name P . G 8 Beni gnus appears on page nine o f t h e 9 d o c u ment and the initials PGB o n page ten 1 0 of the document, which is TRAN 054061 and 1 1 054862 respectively. 1 2 MR. PREUSS: So you would like him 1 3 to read it? 1 4 Q . No, s i r , I don't want you to read 1 5 the whole docu men t . I jus t wan t you to 1 6 look at enough o f it so y o u can tell me if 1 7 you drafted Exhibit 955. 1 8 A. Yes, I did. 1 9 Q. You did write Exhibit 955, is that 2 0 correct? 2 1 A. Sure. 2 2 Q And did you d o that as part of 2 3 your res possibilities a s a marketing 2 4 manager for Monsanto, a s you have explained 2 5 the use of that term? GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 71 STLCOPCB4025019 1 A . Yes. 2 Q. I could direc t your a t t e n t i o n t o 3 page -- the page that ' s label e d numb e r two 4 up at the top of E x h i b i t 9 5 5 because I just 5 want to ask you about a couple of things in 6 this document. You have got a list of 7 paragraphs here that have numbers next to 8 them. And number two is, however, all 9 transformer m a kers prefer to manufacture 1 0 mineral oil o r dry type units rather tha 1 1 askarel. What was your under standing of 1 2 why that was so? 1 3 A. Well, they were more familiar -- 1 4 mineral oilwas a standard in the 1 5 industry. Bear in mind, askarel 1 6 transformer is a specialty. It's not the 1 7 prevelant thing. It is a specialty at a 1 8 higher cost that was selected when a 1 9 judgement was made that a fire resistant 2 0 fluid shall be used instead of a flammable 2 1 fluid. That judgment was made by someone. 2 2 And they were willing to pay more. It 2 3 costs more. And it gave more freedom as to 2 4 where this transformer could be located. 2 5 You can't put a mineral oil transformer i n GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4025020 1 this building, you know. Askarel in a wall 2 in this building is all right. Now, our 3 competition here was a dry type. The other 4 thing you may want to consider instead of 5 askarel is a dry type transformer. It has 6 no fluid. 7 Now, when you do this, however, you 8 have to think, where are you going to put 9 it. You do not have the freedom you have in 1 0 selecting an askarel. To give an example, 1 1 in marine climates, where you people are, 1 2 and in the coast of Florida, near the 1 3 ocean, wherever there can be water 1 4 flooding, wherever there is excess dust or 1 5 dirt like in a flour mill or a steel mill, 1 6 those are not good places for a dry type 1 7 transformer. One would select the 1 8 askarel. But that is economically the 1 9 competitor here against askarel is the dry 2 0 type. 2 1 Now, to some it was probably a 2 2 little more convenient to make a dry type 2 3 than to have to handle a fluid. I said 2 4 all -- I say all transformer makers prefer 2 5 to manufacture mineral oil the dry type GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 77 STLCOPCB4025021 1 rather than a s k a r e 1 . I w o u 1 d say i n 2 general that ' s r i g h t . It ' s n o t a great 3 s tatement . 4 Q C o u 1 d y o u read pa rag r a p h three / 5 please. the o n e that s t a r t s , " a 1 s o , the r e 6 is a t e n d e n c y o n the par t o f t r a n s f o r m e r 7 users t o a v o i d a liquid. t# 8 A . T h a t ' s what I w a s a 1 1 u d i n g to j u 9 now. 1 0 Q. What I'm interested in is the 1 1 statement that you have made here about the 1 2 tendency on the part of transformer users 1 3 to avoid a liquid when the liquid involves 1 4 a toxicology of askarel. There is fear 1 5 about its maintenance and handling. What 1 6 was that statement based on in your 1 7 experience? 1 8 A. On the toxicology of askarel 1 9 versus the toxicology of petroleum oil. 2 0 - Q And what were y ou referring to i n 2 1 terms o f the toxicology? 2 2 A . That the vapors are toxic, and i f 2 3 you get it on the skin. it can be absorbed 2 4 by the skin and it's toxic. You get too 2 5 much in your system, it will affect the GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4025022 1 kidney and the liver. And I'm referrin g to 2 the toxicology of the published literat u r e , 3 which Monsanto has, we went through tha t , 4 which GE sure has, they have their medi cal 5 department, industrial; so with 6 Westinghouse. They have this informati 0 n , 7 just as we did. 8 Q. Okay. The next document I wou 1 d 9 like to show you -- before I do that, I 1 0 want to goforward now to the mid 1 6 0 ' s 1 1 These last documents we have been looki n g 1 2 at were earlier than that -- the mid to 1 3 later part of the '60' s. When did you 1 4 first learn aboutSwedish research 1 5 concerning possible environmental 1 6 contamination by PCBs? 1 7 A . I n retrospec t , I kno w tha t t h i s 1 8 came out i n 1966. No w , I can ' t t e 1 1 y o u 1 9 exactly when . I do r e c a 11 i n 1 9 6 6 I w a s in 2 0 places like Australia, India, South 2 1 Africa. Now, that information about wh a t 2 2 you refer to was sent to Monsanto from a 2 3 person that I was c 1 o s e w i t h in our 2 4 operations i n Engl and. Tha t ' s where h e 2 5 picked it u P T h i s w a s s e n t to St. Lou i s , GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MIS S 0 U R I "7 C STLCOPCB4025023 1 and I would have receive d a copy s o m e w h ere 2 along the line, not that I w a s e x pec ted t 0 3 do anything. That's the b e s t a n s w e r I can 4 give you. When I heard that i n 6 6 o r a 5 little bit later. 6 Q How did you fi s t h ear a b o u t the 7 research that had been one i n S w e d e n 8 concernin g FCBs as an e viro n m e n t a 1 , 9 possible environmental o n t a min a n t ? 1 0 A . From this, wha I j u s t n o w 1 1 referred to, this docum n t , thi s mem ora n d u m 1 2 that came i n . 1 3 Q. And what do you r e c all w a s the 1 4 first information you re c e i v e d a b out th e 1 5 research, the Swedish re sear c h ? 1 6 A. I actually didn ' t r e c e i v e that 1 7 And you say the research o n thi s . I w a sn ' t 1 8 interested in that, from the s t a n d p o int o f 1 9 what was going on there. the e n v i r o n men t . 2 0 Nobody understood that, How eve r , I was 2 1 interested from another r e a s o n . 2 2 Q. What was that? 2 3 A . Well, a good f r i e n d o f m i n e w h o I 2 4 worked with at Monsan ft c > Dr. Munch, he 2 5 happens to be the one w h o invented and GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI nc STLCOPCB4025024 1 developed to some degree, useful degree , a t 2 least, vapor phase chromatography. Wit hi out 3 this development at Monsanto, I assure you 4 they would not have been finding these 5 extremely small amounts of PCBs that th ey 6 were talking about -- probably in parts per 7 million, was it? Monsanto invented the 8 methodology, which has been enchanced 9 through the years. It started in Munch ' s 1 0 laboratory, he invented it. He should have 1 1 patented it. And without that, we prob ably 1 2 wouldn't be here. Now, that was my -- 1 3 Q. Your recollection is that your 1 4 interest in the work of the researchers 1 5 done in Sweden was because one of your 1 6 colleagues had actually invented the 1 7 techniques used to find the PCBs, is th a t 1 8 right? 1 9 A. That's right. 2 0 Q. Let me now show you Exhibit 95 7 , 2 1 which is a memorandum with attachment 2 2 bearing Bates range TRAN 085947 through 2 3 TRAN 085953. Purports to be a memorand u m 2 4 to G . R . Buchanan from D . Wood, dated 2 5 January 26, 1967, and Mr. B e n i g n u s is s h o w n GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MIS S 0 U R I 77 STLCOPCB4025025 1 as a cc, and the subject is Sweden, 2 Aroclor. Mr. Benignus, do you recognize 3 Exhibit 957? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And did you receive it sometime in 6 or around January 1967? 7 A. This would have been the first 3 time I was appraised of this or saw it, and 9 it was -- I didn't mention his name, it was 1 0 David Wood, and this is it. And the date 1 1 is something in 1967 -- I can't tell. It 1 2 was a 26 day. I don't see the month. 1 3 Q I think it's says 1-26. 1 4 A . Oh, yes. over here , January -- all 1 5 right. That's the first I heard and it was 1 6 from David. He was over there, over there, 1 7 calling on the customer in Sweden, and he 1 8 and I called there together many times in 1 9 the past and I was aware that they used 2 0 PCBs there. 2 1 Q. What discussions did you have with 2 2 Mr. Wood, if any, about the research done 2 3 in Sweden concerning PCBs showing up in the 2 4 environment? 2 5 A. None. GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 7Q STLCOPCB4025026 1 Q. Did youhave discussions with 2 anyone employed by Monsanto about the work 3 of the researchers whose names were Jensen 4 and Vidmark? 5 A . No. 6 Q. How about your friend. Dr.Munch? 7 Did you have any discussions with him about 8 the use of his invention to discover PCBs 9 in the environment? 1 0 A. No, andI'm embarrassed. 1 1 Q. You didn'tcongratulate him? 1 2 A . No. ]. 3 Q. What did you think when you heard 1 4 that these researchers in Sweden had 1 5 reported thatthey had found PCBs in eagles 1 6 and human hair and other specimens from the 1 7 environment? 1 8 A. Well, I thought what most 1 9 everybody else thought. 20 Q. What was that? 2 1 A. We don't understand this. 2 2 Q. Why didn't you understand it or 2 3 what about it didn't you understand? 2 4 A. Well, maybe the best answer I can 2 5 give you, at that point in time that you're GORE REPORTING COMPANY . ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI *7 Q STLCOPCB4025027 1 talking about, I didn't know about Munch's 2 vapor phase chromatography being used in 3 this thing. After it came to my attention 4 that this is how they determined these 5 minute amounts, I began to understand how 6 this was done. I n the absence of t h a 7 was prep osperous t o t h i n k that t h e y w 8 find i t in hair and I d on 1 t know w h e r 9 else -- birds, was it? 1 0 Q. So let me see if I understand. 1 1 Your thought when you first heard about 1 2 this research was you didn't understand how 1 3 they had found PCBs in parts per million? 1 4 A. At first, yes, because I wasn't 1 5 aware that it was Ralph's vapor phase 1 6 chromatography that had been developed to 1 7 that point, thatit was actually in use. I 1 8 wasn't connected with this. 1 9 Q So you were just provided this by 2 0 way of informati on? 2 1 A . That is all. 2 2 Q . And when you just testified that 2 3 you thought the same thing that everyone 2 4 else thought, did you have discussions with 2 5 other people about what they thought about GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI na STLCOPCB4025028 1 the research? 2 A . No. 3 Q. There is a reference in this 4 document to research being done at Monks 5 Wood Experimental Station in England 6 concerning the survival and reproduction of 7 Bengalese finches. Do you have any 8 familiarity with work done at Monks Wood on 9 PCBs in the environment? 1 0 A . No. 1 1 Q. Other than the work of Jensen and 1 2 Vidmark, do you havefamiliaritywith work, 1 3 research done concerning finding PCBs in 1 4 the environment? ]. 5 A . No. 1 6 Q . Do you recall in the -- let me 1 7 direct your attention to the press release 1 8 which is an attachment to the memorandum, 1 9 this LKB press release. Did you see that, 2 0 Mr. Benignus? 21 A. You mean on thispage? I see LKB, 2 2 isthat what you're referring to? 2 3 Q. It's headed Poison - LKB Helps To 2 4 Make A Safer World. 25 Q. I will count the pages. It's the GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI O1 STLCOPCB4025029 1 fourth page that's it 2 A Oh. no. 3 Q You don't recall seeing this press 4 release? 5 A No 6 Q Do you recall any discussion 7 concerning the linkage, if any, between 8 finding DDT in the environment and finding 9 PCBs in the environment around the time 1 0 early 1967? 1 1 A. Yes. Again, this had to do with 1 2 methodology rather than the environmental 1 3 ones. What was encountered here, DDT was 1 4 widely distributed through the environment 1 5 everywhere. And what had come up was PCBs 1 6 as an interference in the spectroscopic 1 7 analysis. What is this? It's an 1 8 interference here, they were looking for 1 9 DDT. Well, that was later, as I understand 2 0 it, defined as being an interference on the 2 1 graph from PCBs. 2 2 Q. Other than that connection that 2 3 they found, the PCBs when they were 2 4 actually looking for DDT, do you recall any 2 5 discussions or communications within GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4025030 1 Monsanto about the link, if any, between 2 DDT and PCD s ? 3 A. No, I don't recall any, other than 4 that it was an interference here. 5 Q. Okay. The next exhibit I would 6 like to show you is 958, which is a two 7 page document bearing TRAN 002548 and 8 002549. Purports to be a memorandum dated 9 4-16-1968. Subject, Texas Eastern 1 0 Transmission, from W . E. Gordon, and Mr. 1 1 Benignus is shown as a c c . And my q u e s 1 2 is, whether you recall ever seeing any 1 3 corresponde nee -- well. I will ask the 1 4 particular first, if you recall seeing. 1 5 Exhibit 958 prior totoday? 1 6 A. Well, did I receive this? Yes, 1 7 I'm down here as having received it. 1 8 Q . What about your job 1 9 responsibilities would have you receiving 2 0 correspondence about alleged short weights 2 1 on shipments of Turbinol to Texas Eastern? 2 2 A. I don't think I even read the 2 3 thing. I wasn'tin that area. Short 2 4 weights -- come on. 2 5 Q. That's what the allegation is. GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI QT STLCOPCB4025031 1 Why did you get this kind of 2 correspondence? 3 A. All right. The only explanation I 4 can give -- now, I wasn't in this area, as 5 we know. I was strictly on dielectrics. 6 I'm trying to orient at least something 7 here. These people were not my associates, 8 except possibly one. You will see it says 9 P. G. Benignus, slash, C. M. Williams. And 1 0 then my mailing thing. They got this to 1 1 Charlie Williamsbecause he was a clerk and 1 2 had to do with shipping, and if it does 1 3 weights and invoices, Charlie would do 1 4 this, not only for the non-dielectric but 1 5 also in the dielectric area. He was a 1 6 common clerk shipping expeditor and so 1 7 forth. And to reach Charlie, somebody, 1 8 whoever this was, took me, slash, Charlie 1 9 Williams because that's how Charlie would 2 0 have gotten it. Why they did that, why 2 1 they didn't send it to Charlie and leave me 2 2 off of it, I have no idea. 2 3 Q. Did Mr. Williams work for you? 2 4 A . No. 2 5 Q. All right. The next exhibit is GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI n4 STLCOPCB4025032 1 Exhibit 959, which is a two page document 2 bearing Bates range TRAN 050172 through 3 TRAN 050173. Looks like an excerpt from 4 another document because up at the top it's 5 labeled pages 15 and 16. It bears a date 6 of 7-68. And Mr. Denignus 1 name appears on 7 the second page of the exhibit next to the 8 heading Sponsor. Ready? 9 A. Yes. 1 0 Q. Do yourecognize Exhibit 959, Mr. 1 1 Benignus? 1 2 A. I think I have seen this. 1 3 Certainly Dr. Munch and myself we were 1 4 copied in. 1 5 Q. Is it a budget document? 1 6 A. Yes. At the end here it does get 1 7 into costs of Calandra Labs and Metabolic 1 8 Study . 1 9 Q. Do you recall the form of this 2 0 document? 2 1 A . No, I don't. 2 2 Q. Did you draft this piece of a 23 larger document that deals with electrical 2 4 fluids, air and water pollution control? 2 5 A . No. GORE REPORTING COMPANY - ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI QC STLCOPCB4025033 1 Q. Do you recall if in July 1968 you 2 believed the research findings concerning 3 PCBs ident i f icaton of FCBs in the 4 environment to still be tentative? 5 A. I didn't have a fix on this. I 6 was still amazed in the very, very small 7 amounts that were being discussed, and the 8 reliability, the reproduceability of this. 9 Q. Between 19 -- the beginning of 1 0 1967 and July of 1968, what was your 1 1 involvement, if any, with Monsanto's 1 2 efforts concerning PCBs as an environmental 1 3 contaminant? 1 4 A. I wasn't directly concerned with 1 5 this. 1 6 Q. This document indicates that you 1 7 were -- that you have a responsibility to 1 8 determine present disposal methods for 1 9 aroclors. I'm looking in the middle of the 2 0 second page of the exhibit, with a target 2 1 date of 3-69. Do you recall being assigned 2 2 responsibility to determine what the 2 3 disposal methods for aroclors were? 2 4 MR. PREUSS: Just so the record is 2 5 clear, I think you're referring to the GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI O STLCOPCB4025034 1 initials P. B. -- 2 Q . I should ha made t h a t c 1 e a r . 3 MR. PREUSS : 4 other individuals. There are a 1 so t w 5 Q . The initial are P . B . , s lash 6 B . , slash P. H. 7 A . I can identify J. B., that's Jim 8 Bryant . P. H. slips me. 9 Q Paul Hodges, perhaps? 1 0 A . No. I wouldn't say so. 1 1 Q Do you understand the P. B. to be 1 2 referring to you? 1 3 A . Yes, that refers to me. Whoever 1 4 wrote it didn't know my middle initial, 1 5 Well, thi s was put here. I don't know, 1 6 This whol e thing was in a state of flux at 1 7 this time . What I wish to say, just 1 8 because i t was listed here, it was 1 9 indicated that would be an oncoming 2 0 responsib ility. Now, Bryant was a 2 1 technical sales representative who would 2 2 call on c ustomers in the field, where he 23 could get some idea from the customers as 2 4 to how t h ey are presently disposing 2 5 aroclors . And P. H., whoever that was, I GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI nt STLCOPCB4025035 1 would have to say is likewise. Those were 2 people out in the field. And the date is 3 3-69. That would fit in with this time 4 frame when things were beginning to get 5 rolling and get going. This thing didn't 6 happen overnight. We heard of this thing 7 in '66, was it? Well, here we are in '69. 8 This is the way the world goes. You 9 don't -- 10 MR . PREUSS : It's '68. 1 1 H e re it says 3-69 p 1 2 MR . P R E U S S : N o , for a target 1 3 date. 14 A. For thetarget date it says here 1 5 3-69. So this was in the process, in the 1 6 mill, towards seeing what Monsanto can do. 1 7 Q. Mr. Benignus, do you have any 1 8 specific recollection about having any 1 9 responsibility for determining disposal 2 0 methods for aroclors? 2 1 A . No. 22 Q. Was that everpart of your job 2 3 responsibilities? 2 4 A . No. 2 5 Q. Did you ever acquire any GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4025036 1 information about how Monsanto's customers 2 were disposing of aroclors? 3 A . No. 4 Q . Let's go off the record for a 5 second . 6 (Discussion off the Record) 7 Q. On the record. Tell me what you 8 recall about the Kusho incident in Japan 9 involving contamination of oil with 1 0 aroclors? 11 MR. P R E U S S : Yushow, you mean? 1 2 Q. Yushow, sorry. 1 3 A. Well, Yushow was heating, cooking 1 4' oil that was used to cook fish. The PCB 1 5 fluid was used as an indirect heat transfer 1 6 media, so that the aroclor would take the 1 7 fire, transmit it to thecooking oil to 1 8 avoid overheating the cooking oil. Now, 1 9 the Japanese eat a lot of fish over there, 2 0 and Kanacafuchi in Japan had this plant to 2 1 manufacture, a Japanese company, PCBs. And 2 2 leakage occurred in the system, the heat 2 3 exchanger. I never got into this thing in 2 4 detail. At times I wish I had. But I 2 5 don't think Monsanto went over there and GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4025037 1 i n v e stigated it in detail. 2 The thing is, they made a number of 3 people sick. And to ingest this amount of 4 PCB to make people sick, it's hard to 5 believe. You would think, well, don't they 6 taste this stuff? But, anyhow, as I 7 recall, not just one or two people; a 8 number of people got sick. Well, the 9 Emperor Hirohito, this is enough. And they 1 0 shut the whole thing down and when the 1 1 Emperor speaks, it's shut down. So that put 1 2 them out of business. 1 3 I was active in Japan. When 1 4 Mitsubishi would build a plant, I was sent 1 5 over there to move the production, 1 6 primarily the electrical industry, and we 1 7 never got off the ground because of this 1 8 Yushow incident, which I think was sometime 1 9 in1968, Ibelieve. 20 Q. Youhad mentioned earlier that in 2 1 early 1967 you were traveling a lot to 2 2 Australia, you mentioned. What part of 2 3 your job responsibilities required you to 2 4 do this kind of world travel? 2 5 A. By this time.General Electric GORE REPORTING COMPANY , ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI on STLCOPCB4025038 1 Company had invented and were marketing a 2 product called pyranol two for capacitors. 3 This was our super pure aroclor, to which 4 was added an epoxide scavenger or getter-. 5 By this I mean this in a way is a 6 stabilizing agent. It will acquire to 7 itself the epoxide free chloride ion and so 8 forth . 9 Now, they offered this to 1 0 Monsanto. Our attitude was, we don't want 1 1 it. We make this super pure stuff and we 1 2 are not going to add something as reactive 1 3 as an epoxide. That reacts with anything. 14 1 d G E , than ks but no th a n k s . I f you 1 5 t o add e p o x ide, we will sell you the 1 6 pure stuff and do what you want to do. 1 7 Well, they licensed some people and they 1 8 went to this. 1 9 Now, this technology we didn't buy 2 0 at Monsanto. It was rather expensive. We 2 1 had no use for it. That put me into this 22 pos i ti on . I rea 1 1 y at t h is partic u 1 a r 2 3 had n o bus i n e s s going i n t o our c u s t o m e r 2 4 t r y i n g t o fish a round t o learn som e t h i n 2 5 a b o u t this t e c h n o 1 o g y the y had on a GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4025039 1 licensed basi s with GE. What I'm saying to 2 you is this, The research lab doors at GE, 3 which has bee n wide open tome, people ask, 4 do I work for GE, and I guess it did. Now, 5 this suddenly and abruptly terminated as 6 they started developing this pyranol two. 7 Now, that cau sed me to direct my attention 8 other than in the States. 9 Bear in mind, in the States, we 1 0 were the only supplier. Anybody wanting it 1 1 couldn't get it anywhere else. They had to 1 2 get it from u s. There was nobody else. 1 3 That's called a monopoly. Not that we 1 4 wanted a mono poly. Anybody was welcome, 1 5 Nobody chose to get into it. I'm talking 1 6 about the ele ctrical end particularly, 1 7 That's the bu siness it had to get into. So 1 8 I directed at this point in time my 1 9 interests aro und the world. 2 0 Now, there the French manufactured 2 1 it and I got to be a good friends with Dr. 2 2 Kokillian and Pierget, their organization, 2 3 and we were c ompetitors around the world, 2 4 very friendly . We were very close. Also 2 5 in Germany, y ou had Behr Laverkusen, with GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI n^ STLCOPCB4025040 1 D r . Knust was the head of the technical 2 thing. And, of course, th ere was our 3 manufacturer in South Wale s England. A n d 4 my attentions were directe d at going to a 1 1 5 these countri es, whether i t's Brazil, 6 Argentina -- Mexico they s hipped out of 7 here mainly. Australia, w hat have you. 8 Scandinavia . Lilly Holman s where this 9 thing started in Sweden. I traveled ar 0 u n d 1 0 there . 1 1 Plus, a noth er important part of a 1 1 1 2 of this was to get agreement between 1 3 ourselves and Prota 1 o k , the French comp any, 1 4 and Behr, to agree on consensus of the test 1 5 procedures and the specifications in or d e r 1 6 to standardize this , which was standard 1 z e d 1 7 in our country at A .S.T.M. and these 1 8 organizations, but now I got active and 1 9 with representative s from GE and so for t h 2 0 internationally in the international 2 1 electrical technica 1 commission where 2 2 governments would i nvite us to meet, an d 2 3 one happened to be Iran. And we would go 2 4 there and in order to standardize on th e 2 5 specifications and the methods used in GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MIS S 0 U R I Q1 STLCOPCB4025041 1 this I keep saying critical, it was 2 handling of PCBs, particularly for 3 capacitor dielectrics. So I was gone wh e n 4 some of these things you probably bringi n g 5 up were here. I tried to explain how co m e . 6 Q. Well, you have done that. Let m e 7 show you Exhibit 961, which is a two pa g e 8 document bearing Bates range TRAN 057681 9 through 057682, purportedly dated Decemb e r 1 0 9, 1968. Subject, Defense Of Aroclor, 1 1 where W, R. Richard is shown as the a u t h o r , 1 2 and Mr. Benignus is shown as one of the 1 3 recipients, or actually one of the 1 4 addressees of this memo. And I would li k e 1 5 to ask you, Mr. -- I'm sorry, I don't ha v e 1 6 a -- there is some handwriting up in the 1 7 upper right-hand corner but I can't read i t 1 8 either. Have you seen this document pri o r 1 9 totoday? 2 0 A . I would say yes. 2 1 Q Do you recall a time at M o n s a n 2 2 in 1968 when the company's defens e of a 2 3 aroclor product was being mounted ? 2 4 A . Excuse me? 2 5 Q Do you recall a time in 1 9 6 8 w GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI Q& STLCOPCB4025042 1 the- defense of aroclor by Monsanto was 2 being mounted? 3 MR. PREUSS: I'm going to object 4 as argumentative. 5 A. You want me to answer this 7 6 Q . Yes. 7 A. I don't understand what yo u just 8 got through saying. 9 Q. Sure. 1 0 A. I do and I don't. 11 Q. Let me reask it then. So that you 1 2 were sure you understand what I'm s a y i n g . 1 3 Do you recall discussions or commun ications 1 4 at Monsanto about how to defend the future 1 5 use ofaroclors in the face of alle g a t i o n s 1 6 concerning environmental contaminat ion? 1 7 A. Hell, you're using a word that I 1 8 think is rather improper, this defe n s e 1 9 thing. You can very easily interpr e t this 2 0 in an altogether different way than I would 2 1 interpret it, this word defense. I ' m 2 2 surprised thatword bothers me. It 2 3 wasn't -- yes,I can understand wha t he was 2 4 saying, and I take it in stride. 2 5 Q. You're referring to Mr. Ri chard? GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI Q^ STLCOPCB4025043 1 A . To Dr. Richard. And it indicates 2 things that were in the mill or were going 3 to be. Here comes this Callandra. Now I 4 know what that is. Those were feeding 5 studies that were going on. Earlier in our 6 discussion I couldn't recall Callandra, I 7 didn't ever remember hearing them. So 8 there was chicken work going on. 9 Q. Well, before we get into the 1 0 specifics, let me focus your attention back 1 1 to the first question, which is, do you 1 2 recall a time at Monsanto when information 1 3 was being marshalled to defend the 1 4 continued use of aroclors in the face of 1 5 allegations concerning environmental 1 6 contamination? 1 7 A. I accept your statement. 1 8 Q. You do recall such a period? 1 9 A. This period. 2 0 MR. PREUSS: No, I object as - 2 1 I'm going to object to the form of the 2 2 question as argumentative and a 2 3 mischaracterization of what his response 2 4 was. 25 Q. Okay. I don't understand your GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI QC STLCOPCB4025044 1 response then. Let me try it again. Here 2 is the question. Do you recall in your 3 employment at Monsanto that there came a 4 time when within Monsant nformati o n was 5 marshalled to defend the n t i n u e d use o f 6 aroclors in the face of egations 7 concerning PCBs being an vironmen t a 1 8 contamination? 9 MR. PREUSS: Ob j e c t to the form as 1 0 argumentative and assumi ng fact s not i n 1 1 evidence. Subject to tha t , you can g o ahead 1 2 and answer. 1 3 A . Well, in simple t e r m s , yes. 1 4 Q . Okay. That's a n a n s w e r . D id you 1 5 part icipate in the effor t t o -- in a n 1 6 effort to gather informa tio n to pres e n t for 1 7 purposes of continuing t o s ell PCBs in the l 8 face of allegations cone e r n i n g 1 9 environmental contaminat ion b y PCBs? 2 0 A . No. 2 1 Q. What role, if a n Y , did you play in 2 2 defending the continued use o f PCBs in the 2 3 late '60' s? 2 4 A. In the late '60 ' s . Y o u wan ted to 2 5 start getting into these t h i n g s now? GORE REPORTING COMPANY S T . LOUIS, MISSOURI r\ *7 STLCOPCB4025045 1 Q. No. I just want to know in 2 general what you recall, what role y o u 3 played, if any, in activities defend in g the 4 continued use of PCBs. 5 A. A passive role. Tried to k e e p 6 informed as to what is this all and w h a t is 7 going on and what do they want to do 8 Q . Did you play any role in d e c i d i n g 9 whether PCBs should be continued to be sold 1 0 by Monsanto? 1 1 MR. PREUSS: Are you talkin g 1 2 generallyand not with respect to 1 3 dielectrics specifically? 1 4 Q. Generally. 1 5 A. Generally? No. 1 6 Q. Did you play any role in ma king 1 7 any decisions concerning whether PCB s 1 8 should becontinued to be sold by Mo n s a n t o 1 9 for dielectric use? 2 0 A. I was on the receiving end. 2 1 Q. Of recommendations? 2 2 A. Phone call request. 2 3 Q. I guess I don't understand. 2 4 Customers requested that Monsanto co n t i n u e 2 5 to sell PCBs, is that whatyou're sa y i n g ? GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI OQ STLCOPCB4025046 1 A . Exactly 2 Q. Did you provide any 3 recommendations to Monsanto management 4 about whether Mo nsanto should continue to 5 produce P C B s f o dielectric use? 6 A . No , no 7 Q Did y o ever participate in making 8 a presentation t o something called the 9 corporate manage m e n t c 0 mmittee? 1 0 A. I was a ware o f this, but; I wasn't 1 1 a part o f that I k n o w what you'' r e 1 2 ref err i n g t o . 1 3 Q . Let's 1 o k a t t h i s document before 1 4 lunch. What's a e n z y m e i nducer, do you 1 5 know? 1 6 A. I really don' t k n o w . 17 Q . Okay. Item f o u r i n E x h i b i t 9 6 1 1 8 discusses or states cl e a n up s t r e a m and 1 9 pollution from our aro clor plants, our 2 0 customers' plants, our customers' products, 2 1 restrict sales from sp ecific uses. Mr. 2 2 Benignus, did you play any part in any 2 3 Monsanto efforts to cl ean up stream and air 2 4 pollution from Monsant o manufacturing 2 5 plants? GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI QQ STLCOPCB4025047 1 A . No . 2 Q What about from Monsanto' s 3 customers ' plants? 4 A . No . 5 Q The same question with re s p e c t 6 Monsanto' s customers' products? 7 A . No . 8 Q Did you play any role in making 9 decisions or recommendations conce r n i n g 1 0 restricting sales of PCBs from specific 1 1 uses? 1 2 A . No. 1 3 Q. Did you play any role in seeing if 1 4 a capacitor plant could be improved to 1 5 minimize exposure to PCBs? 1 6 A . No . 1 7 Q. Did you play any role in figuring 1 8 out whether transformer plants could be 1 9 improved to minimize exposure to PCBs? 2 0 A . No . 2 1 Q What role, if any, did you play i n 2 2 v a r i 0 u s toxic ological studi es that were 2 3 done a t B i o t e st Laboratorie s ? 2 4 A . None 2 5 Q Were you kept info rmed of the GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 1 AA STLCOPCB4025048 1 r e s-u Its of such studies? 2 A . Not specifically, no, no. 3 Q. Why don't we break for lunc h . 4 (Lunch recess) 5 Q . Ready? 6 MR. FREUSS: Yes. 7 Q. On the record. Mr. Benignu s , are 8 you familiar with the terms open sys tern 9 versus closed system used in relatio n to 1 0 PCBs ? 1 1 A. Yes. 1 2 Q. What's your understanding o f the 1 3 definition of th e closed system? 1 4 A. In term s of PCD closed, a c 1 o s e d 1 5 system would be a capacitor that is 1 6 hermetically sea led. It's vacuumed 1 7 impregnated with a fluid and then it 1 8 hermetically sea led, completely clos e d . 1 9 Now, a transform er can be completely 2 0 closed. Usually it is. One system would 2 1 be where the tra nsformer is welded s hut. 2 2 Another closed t ransformer system wo u 1 d be 2 3 where the transf ormer is gasketed an d 2 4 bolted shut. An d a third system, we come 2 5 back to your que stion about what is a GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI i ni STLCOPCB4025049 1 liquid seal, is where the transformer on 2 top would have what they called a 3 conservator that would be a tank containing 4 fluid, and. in e f f e c t , that serve: s as its 5 seal. So you can consider that a closed 6 system. 7 Q. What was your understanding or 8 what is your understanding of the term open 9 system as used in relation to PCDs ? 1 0 A. There isn't, not dielectrics. 11 Q. So all of the uses of PCDs for 1 2 dielectrics were closed systems? 1 3 A. Yes. 1 4 Q. Were you familiar in your work at 1 5 Monsanto in the late '60's with reports 1 6 concerning Aroclor 1242 and toxicity to 1 7 fish? 1 8 A . N o . A 1 th o u g h I h a d h e ard o f this 1 9 obvious iy, I w a s n ' t c o n c e r n e d w i t h t h a t . 2 0 Q Wh ere had y o u h e a r d o f i t 7 2 1 A . I suppose h e a r d P e o p 1 e m e n t i o n 2 2 it. Maybe saw it in the news media, was 2 3 great for stories. Just in general. 2 4 Q. You don't have a specific 2 5 recollection of how you -- GORE REPORTING COMPANY . ST. LOUTS, MISSOURI i no STLCOPCB4025050 1 A . No one came specifically t o m c . 2 Q , Let me show you Exhibit 9 6 7 , which 3 I will describe for the record as a three 4 page document bearing Rates range TRAN 5 024974 through 024976, which purports to be 6 a trip report dated four -- excuse me -- 7 September 10, 1969, to Great Lakes Steel, 8 Detroit, Michigan. Mr. Denignus is one of 9 the c c ' s on t h is t r i P report. Do you 1 0 reca 1 1 seeing E x h i b i t 967 prior to t o 1 1 A . No. 1 2 Q. Does Exhibit 967 refresh your 1 3 recollection in any way about learning 1 4 about Aroclor 1242 and toxicity to fish? 1 5 A . No. 1 6 MR. PREUSS: Ju s t f o r the r e c o rd , 1 7 I b elieve -- I s e e, it d o e s r e f ere nee 1 2 4 2 1 8 but it does talk about 1 2 4 8 a s w e 1 1 . I 1 9 t h i n k there is a -- the only reference 2 0 see to 1242 with a quick look is the 2 1 P y d r a u 1 3 12 and Aroclor 1 2 4 2. 2 2 Q . And the i n d i c a t ion on t h i s , t h e 2 3 Pyd raul 312 was shown to b e toxic t o f i s h . 2 4 Do you recall any discus sions with any 0 f 2 5 your colleagues at Monsa n t o about toxic 1 t y , GORE REPORTING COMPANY S T , LOUIS , MIS SOURI i r> ^ STLCOPCB4025051 1 PCB toxicity testing with regard to fish? 2 A . No. 3 Q. Are you familiar with any 4 information concerning PCB toxicity to 5 shrimp down in Florida? 6 A . No. 7 Q. The next document I would like 8 to-- let me ask you a few questions before 9 I put this on the table. Was General 1 0 Electric the largest customer for 1 1 dielectric fluids that contained PCBs? 1 2 A . By far. 1 3 Q. And was Westinghouse also a large 1 4 customer? 1 5 A . Number two. 1 6 Q What was th smallest cus tomer for 1 7 dielectr i c fluids? 1 8 A . I can't a n s e r that 1 9 categorically. I wil 1 answer it i n a 2 0 general way. There w ere some rela t i v e 1 y 2 1 small impregnators of capacitors. One was 2 2 in Brooklyn, New York , that I can think 2 3 o f . A n d then there w ould be some small 2 4 maker o f a n a s k a r e 1 t ransformer. 2 5 Q Do you recal 1 GE coming t o GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI i r\ a STLCOPCB4025052 1 Monsanto i n S t . Lou is i n 1970 for a 2 presentat ion a b o u t what was known b y 3 Monsanto con c e r n i n g the environmen t a 4 effects of PCBs? 5 A . Sure do. 6 Q Did you set u p t h a t m e e t i n g ? 7 A . Yes, m a ' a m . 8 Q And what was G E ' s i n teres t in that 9 subject? 1 0 MR. PREUSS: As he understood it 1 1 to be? 1 2 Q. Right, as they told you, exactly. 1 3 A. GE, as ourselves, were interested 1 4 in reviewing what is known about this 1 5 situation. They were just as interested as 1 6 we. And it was this mutual interest and it 1 7 was areview of what was known to pass 1 8 information. And that was the purpose of 1 9 the meeting. 2 0 Q. GE had had their own environmental 2 1 people, is that correct? 2 2 A. Oh, they had environmental people, 2 3 surely . 2 4 Q. And GE was also studying PCBs, is 2 5 that correct? GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4025053 1 A What? 2 Q. GE was also studying FCEls, is that 3 correct? 4 A. They were using and studyin g, yes, 5 sure. 6 Q. Let me show you our next ex h i b i t , 7 which has been marked as Exhibit 969 . It's a a three page exhibit, bearing Dates range 9 TRAN 022953 through 022955. It purp o r t s to 1 0 be a memorandum from Mr. Denignus da ted 11 January 7, 1970 concerning the 1 2 polychlorinated biphenyl environment a 1 1 3 problem. General Electric Company, And 1 4 it's to a long list of recipients. M r . 1 5 B e nignus, did you draft Exhibit 969? 1 6 A . Yes. 1 7 Q. And what is Exhibit 969? 1 8 A. It introduces our people wh o may 1 9 not have known Ed Raab, who Ed Raab, where 2 0 he is located, what his responsibili ties 2 1 are, and that he will visit Monsanto , gives 2 2 the dates, and I'm sure it goes on t 0 2 3 discuss the topics, what he seeks, 1 2 4 didn't read this but this is what it i s . 2 5 Q. If I could direct your atte n t i o n GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI nc STLCOPCB4025054 1 to the first paragraph under what GE seeks, 2 down at the bottom of the first page of 3 Exhibit 969, and ask you to read that. 4 A. GE seeks to learn Monsanto's 5 corporate stance regards PCB problem at 6 this time. 7 Q. Do you recall having an 8 understanding that Monsanto had some sort 9 of corporate stance regarding PCBs in the 1 0 beginning of 1970? 1 1 A. I will have to say yes. 1 2 Q. What was your understanding of 1 3 Monsanto's corporate stance at the 1 4 beginning of 1970 with regard to PCBs? 1 5 A. That, in general, they had taken a 1 6 position of going out of supplying PCBs. 1 7 Q . And what was your understanding of 1 8 why Monsanto was going out of supplying 1 9 PCBs? 2 0 A. Because of what you have been 2 1 talking about. 2 2 Q. The environmental information 2 3 concerning PCBs? 2 4 A. Right. I wish to expand on that 2 5 right here. GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI i n7 STLCOPCB4025055 1 Q Right here , oka y 2 A . Right here . T h e indictment 3 again st PCBs in the e n v i r o n m e n t w a s its 4 pers i s t e n c e in the e n v i r o n m e n t . I t was n t 5 carci n o g e n i c an d a 1 .1 the s e thin g s that by 6 19 7 0 were being talked a bout in t h e news 7 media . I just want to s ay that . 8 Q So w h e n y o u say the indictment was 9 the p e r s i s t e n c e o f PCBs 1 0 A-. The p e rsis fence 1 1 Q The in diet men t by whom? 1 2 A . By the e n v i r o n m entalists. That's 1 3 what they o b j e c ted t o . It persists in the 1 4 envi ronment . 1 5 Q Okay. 1 6 A . He all k n o w it' s refractory, it 1 7 pers i s t s . 1 8 Q So as far as y o u were concerned, 1 9 there was no d i s p u t e t h a t it persists in 2 0 the e nvir o n m e n t 7 2 1 A . That i s CO r r e c t 2 2 Q Did G e n e r a 1 E 1 e c t r i c come to St. 2 3 Louis t o visit with you and o ther Monsanto 2 4 e m p 1 o y e e s to d i s c u s s -- 25 A . Certain 1 y . GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 1 nO STLCOPCB4025056 1 Q . And was the issue of Monsanto's 2 corporate stance with regard to PCBs 3 discussed? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q . And do you recall who. i f a n y o n e , 6 onsanto led t h a t discussion 7 MR. PREUSS : You mean one spec i f i c 8 person? 9 Q If one speci f i c p e r s o n led 1 0 whatever you can reca 1 1 , M r . B e nign 1 1 about the discussion. 1 2 A. Well, I don't know if it was 1 3 exactly at this point in time. But at some 1 4 point in time all of our people were called 1 5 on. Myself to the extent of introducing 1 6 people, and then our people in the bio lab, 1 7 studying biodegradabi1ity, and down the 1 8 line. 1 9 Q. Let me -- 2 0 A . I haven't read this. I don't k 2 1 if that was at this time or it w a s later 2 2 Q I will sho w you another d o c u m e n 2 3 that goes to the presentation. That is 2 4 Exhibit 972, which is a multi-page document 2 5 bearing -- or consisting of Bates range GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 1 '-I O STLCOPCB4025057 1 TRAN 023509 through 023518. Headed on the 2 first page, the PCS pollution proble m . 3 January 21 and 22, 1970,St. Louis M e e t i n g 4 With General Electric Company. 5 A. Yes. You're up now to what I was 6 thinking about. 7 Q. Do you recognize Exhibit 97 2 ? 8 A . Yes. 9 Q. And is this by way of a sum m a r y of 1 0 what went on during the meeting with 1 1 General Electric in January 1970? 12 A. Thisdate, yes. 1 3 Q. Do you recall Mr. Wheeler 1 4 presenting a representative from GE with a 1 5 booklet containing information about 1 6 studies concerning PCBs? 17 MR. PREUSS: Well, if you'r e going 1 8 to ask him questions that are based o n 1 9 information in this memo, perhaps he ought 2 0 to have an opportunity to read this. 2 1 Q. I'm just asking it -- 2 2 A. About Mr. Wheeler. 2 3 Q. I'm not attempting torefre s h your 2 4 recollection at this point. I'm jus t 2 5 asking him a question. GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI iin STLCOPCB4025058 1 A. However, I don't get whether you 2 are thinking Wheeler was with GE or with 3 Monsanto. 4 Q. With Monsanto. 5 A. Wheeler was with Monsanto, right. 6 Q. Do you recall at the meeting you 7 had with General Electric in January 1970 8 Mr. Wheeler presenting a representative of 9 GE, Mr. Rain -- 1 0 A . Raab . 1 1 Q. -- Raab, a booklet of studies and 1 2 other information about PCBs? 1 3 A. I didn't specifically see this. 1 4 This is part of the intention. 1 5 Q. To present General Electric with 1 6 the information you had about PCBs? 1 7 A. Whatever was available, 1 8 everything. 1 9 Q. Do you recall if similar two day 2 0 presentations were made with other 2 1 customers of the dielectric group? 2 2 A. Yes. 2 3 Q. Who else was brought to St. Louis? 2 4 A. Westinghouse. 2 5 Q. Can you think of othercustomers GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 111 STLCOPCB4025059 1 t h at Monsanto made a presentation to 2 concerning the PCD pollution problem? 3 A. This emanated -- what could be 4 logically done. You can't call on 5 everybody and their dog, you know. And to 6 the best of our ability, we 7 disseminated -- there is nothing secret 8 about this. The idea is to disseminate 9 it. I can't answer your question in more 1 0 detail. There were discussions with others 1 1 than GE and Westing house. But we didn't 1 2 call every singlecustomer in to St. 1 3 Louis. It's not practical. We had no 1 4 objection to anybody that wants to come. 1 5 Be happy to have them. 1 6 Q. All right. The next exhibit I 1 7 would like to show you has beenmarked in a 1 8 previous deposition as Exhibit 866. And 1 9 for the record, it purports to be a 2 0 memorandum from D. A. Olson to W. 2 1 Papageorge, dated April 20, 1970; Subject, 2 2 Aroclor Labeling. And Mr. Benignus is 2 3 shown as a cc on thisdocument. And I 2 4 would like to ask you, Mr. Benignus, if you 2 5 recall seeing this document prior to GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 1io STLCOPCB4025060 1 today. 2 MR. PREUSS: Off the record a 3 minute . 4 (Discussion off the Record) 5 Q. Back on the record. Mr. Benignus, 6 have you seen Exhibit 866 prior to today? 7 A. I would have to say probably, yes. 8 Q. Because you're shown -- 9 A. Because I'm shown on there. 1 0 Q . Do you have anyfamiliarity with a 1 1 group of products called Pydrauls? 1 2 A. I knew they existed, yes, of 1 3 course. 1 4 Q. Did your work involve anything to 1 5 do with the Pydraul line of products? 1 6 A . No. 1 7 Q. Do you have any knowledge about 1 8 the timing of the reformulation of the 1 9 Pydraul products to remove PCBs? 2 0 A . No . 2 1 Q. The next exhibit I would like to 2 2 show you I'm marking today as 976. It's a 2 3 one page document bearing Bates number TRAN 2 4 008623. It purports to be a memorandum 2 5 from Paul Benignus to D. A. Olson, dated GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI ii STLCOPCB4025061 1 June 11, 1970; Subject, Capacitor Aroclor 2 1 2 4 2. Could you look at this, Mr. 3 B e n i g nus, and tell me if you have seen it 4 prior to today. 5 A. I wrote it. 6 Q. You wrote it. That's your 7 s i g n a ture there? 8 A. That's my signature. 9 Q. Aroclor 1242 was reformulated at a 1 0 c e r t a in point to remove the higher 1 1 c h 1 o r inated elements in it, is that 1 2 c orrec t? 1 3 A . Correct. 1 4 Q And why was that done? 1 5 A . The reason for reformulati n g 1 6 A r o c 1 o r 1242 which resulted in Aroc lor 1 0 1 6 1 7 and w e e liminated the B, didn't wan t to 1 8 m i s 1 e a d anybody, this was an effort , t o the 1 9 best o f our ability, at great expen s e an d 2 0 time, t h ese things took a lot of ti me, t o 2 1 satis f Y environmentalists ' objectio n to the 2 2 p e r s i s t e nee of PCBs in the environm e n t . 2 3 Now, through the years that PCBs 2 4 were use d and got into the environm e n t , 2 5 s a m p 1 e s were taken from the environ m e n t t o GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 11A STLCOPCB4025062 1 see, well, what is there in the 2 environment. I'm comparing this to saying, 3 well, let's see what the biodegradabi.lity 4 is. You can't just all of a sudden take 5 this stuff and put it in the backyard and 6 see what the biodegradability rate of this 7 stuff is. But i n the e n vi ronment s 8 were taken. I don ' t know from wher 9 The p o i n t is this. What w a 1 0 recovered from the environ m e n t was 1 1 gear with what had been made in the 1 2 factory. It wasout of gear in this 1 3 respect. What was in the environment was 1 4 disproportionately high in the higher 1 5 chlorinated biphenyl content, which means 1 6 that some of the lower chlorinated stuff 1 7 evidently disproportionately dissipated, 1 8 biodegraded or what have you. Now, this 1 9 now implies that it's the higher 2 0 chlorinated biphenyls that persist more 2 1 than the lower ones. 1016 is this effort 2 2 to reach in -- now, Aroclor 1242, as you 2 3 know, that's a very complex mixture of 2 4 materials. It's not a single compound by a 2 5 long shot. If we had them all here GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 1 1 t; STLCOPCB4025063 1 isolated, you would have solidus. It ' s a t 2 liquid because of mixed melting poin t . 3 Okay. They reached in as far as the y could 4 go to pull out the more highly c hlor i n a t e d 5 compounds to satisfy, try to satisfy 6 objection from the environmentalists 7 That's the premise for 1016. 8 Q. So let me see if I understa n d 9 you. Aroclor 1242 prior to being 1 0 reformulated was a mixture of lower 1 1 chlorinated biphenyls and higher 1 2 chlorinated biphenyls, whereas MCS 1 0 1 6 1 3 took the higher chlorinated biphenyl s out 1 4 of the mixture, is that right? 1 5 A . Yes. But I want to clarify this. 1 6 It was not a man-prepared mixture by any 1 7 means . What this res ults from is wh e n you 1 8 chlori nated biphenyl. you chiorinate d 1242, 1 9 that's essentially 42 perc ent by wei g h t of 2 0 chlorine. Now, that mathematically 2 1 corresponds to three chlorines in th e 2 2 biphenyl nucleus. It's not exactly that. 2 3 This is a very complex mixture, not 2 4 prepared mixture, but this is what c o m e s 2 5 from the reaction. And you can have I GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI iia STLCOPCB4025064 1 dichloryl, maybe even some monochloric in 2 there. Predominantly trichlor. That's what 3 we want. There will be some setrachlor, 4 four, penta, probably some six chlorines. 5 That's the way the thing comes out. It's a 6 complex blend of mixtures that comes out of 7 the chlorination reaction. 8 Q. Did you have discussions with your 9 colleagues at Monsanto in 1970 or 1 0 thereabouts about the effect of PCEls on 1 1 birds? 1 2 A . No. 1 3 Q. Let me show you a document that 1 4 has been -- that I have marked as Exhibit 1 5 978, which I will describe for the record 1 6 as a three page document consisting of 1 7 Bates range TRAN 062408 through 062410, 1 8 dated July 8, 1970. Purports to be a 1 9 letter to Mr. F. G. Jenkins from W. B. 2 0 Papageorge, and Mr. Benignus is shown as a 2 1 blind c c . 2 2 MR. PREUSS: You want him to read 2 3 it? 2 4 Q. No, I don't want you to read the 2 5 whole letter, Mr. Benignus. I'm interested GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4025065 1 i f y ou recall s e e i ng it and I'm g o i n g to 2 dire c t your a t t e n t ion to, after you answer 3 that ques tion , t o the paragraph a t the 4 bottom of the first page of this exhibit, 5 headed toxicity. 6 Let me back up and ask you a new 7 question, Mr. Benignus. Are you familiar 8 with Sprague Electric Company? 9 A. Sprague, yes, they were one of our 1 0 ustomers; capacitors. 1 1 Q . Do you recall M r . Papageorge going 1 2 u t to see some of the c u s tomers of the 1 3 ielectrics group? 1 4 A . Pa pageorge had b e en plant manager 1 5 t Anniston in 1970. I t h ink maybe as 1 6 early as January, I don't know, he was 1 7 called up to a period before in 1970 to 1 8 coordinate all of this stuff and that's how 1 9 he would get into this. Now, there must 2 0 have been some request for him either from 2 1 Sprague or through our salesman, Randy 2 2 Graham, that Papageorge go out there and 2 3 visit, and this is what was done. And 2 4 Papageorge, that's all he did now, was 2 5 coordinate what is known and what is GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4025066 1 available, and this is wha t this dis cusses . 2 Q. Did reading that bottom par a g r a p h 3 labeled toxicity on the fi rst page o f 4 Exhibit 978 refresh your r ccol lectio n in 5 any way on whether you eve r had any 6 discussions with anyone at Monsanto about 7 the toxicity of PCBs to bi r d s ? 8 A . No. 9 Q. Okay. The next e x h i b i t I m ark as 1 0 Exhibit 980. It's Bates r a n g e TRAN 039367 1 1 through 039368. It purpor t s to be a letter 1 2 from W. .B . Papageorge to M r . F . R . V i 1 a n d , 1 3 V-i-l-a-n-d, of Westinghou se Corpora t i o n , 1 4 dated October 1, 1970, and Mr. B e n i g n u s is 1 5 show n as a blind c c . D o Y ou recall seeing 1 6 E x h i b i t 9 8 0 , M r . Ben i g n u s ? 1 7 A . I s u p p o s e I s a w i t. I got a 1 8 copy If I had had t i m e r I would ha v e 1 9 looked at it. 2 0 Q. But you don't hav e any spec i f i c 2 1 recollection? 2 2 A. I have no specifi c knowledg e of -- 2 3 whatever Papageorge was do ing was ri g h t 2 4 with me. 2 5 Q. Do you recall any discussio n of GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 1 1Q STLCOPCB4025067 1 any tests done in Florida concerning how 2 long A r o c lor 1242 stayed in its --- s trike 3 that 4 Her e is what I'm intere s t e d in. 5 It's on the s e c o nd page and it' s a 6 description of a study done in Florida, 7 purportedly wh cr e they put A roc lor 1242 in 8 a hole and then came back about thirty 9 years .later and saw how Car it had 1 0 migrated. Do yo u know anything about that 1 1 study? 1 2 A . The 1242 was put in a hole i n 1 3 Florida? 1 4 Q. Yes, in 1938, appare n t 1 y . 1 5 A. Yes. And we already talked about 1 6 this. This is an example whe re it would 1 7 have been, say, a soil steril ant against 1 8 the bad Florida termite. Thi s is what this 1 9 would be. And I know the guy that dug the 2 0 hole, and it was a follow up on that. Now, 2 1 this was '38 to 1970. That's quite a 2 2 while, isn't it? 2 3 Q. That's a long time. 2 4 A. Thirty some odd year s . Out 2 5 somebody had a record of how they were -- GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI i on STLCOPCB4025068 1 how. they ever found this, I don't know. 2 Q. Other than you recall how this 3 hole happened to be dug in Florida and 4 Aroclor 1242 put in it, do you recall 5 anything about what was found when the 6 aroclors were taken out in 1969? 7 A . No. 8 Q. Do you recall any discussions 9 concerning the biodegradation of aroclors 1 0 with respect to this hole in the ground in 1 1 Florida? 1 2 A. No. And as we already said, to my 1 3 knowledge it wasn't used as a soil 1 4 sterilant . 1 5 Q. The next exhibit is Exhibit 982. 1 6 It's a two page document consisting of 1 7 Bates range TRAN 036330 through 036331. 1 8 Purports to be a m e m o r a n d u m from W . B . 1 9 Papageorge t o M r . Benign u s dated N o v e m b e r 2 0 11, 1970. And i t ' s the s a m e q u e s t i o n , M r 2 1 Benignus, w hether you re c a 1 1 see i n g t h i s 2 2 document? I guess I should further 2 3 describe it for the record. The subject 2 4 matter is letter dated October 27, 1970; 2 5 R. F. Casey, Ohio Edison, to P. G. GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4025069 1 Benignus 2 A. I don't remember Casey's letter. 3 Now, this was written by Papageorge to me. 4 MR. PREUSS: Again, do you want 5 him to read that? 6 Q. No. Just either you remember this 7 document -- 8 A . I don't re member what' s in here 9 Q Okay. The next exhibi t I would 1 0 t 0 show you is Exhibit 986 J which 1 1 bears Bates number TRAN 004413. Purports 1 2 to be a letter from R. E. Hatton to Mr. J. 1 3 S. Galbraith at the Tennessee Valley 1 4 A u t h o r i ty , da ted May 1 0 r 1 9 7 1 . M r . 1 5 B e n i gn u s is s h o w n a s a c c You might as 1 6 w e 1 1 g o a head and read t h i s . I t ' s pretty 1 7 short. 1 8 A. Oh, I had nothing to do -- I was 1 9 copied in merely as a formality of some 2 0 sort. I had n o t h i n g to do with t h i s . 2 1 Q You have n o r e c o 1 1 e c t i o n of -- 2 2 A . N o , I w o u 1 d have paid n o attention 2 3 to t h i s . I know. o f c o u r s e , w h o H a t t o n is. 2 4 Q. But seeing Exhibit 986, which 2 5 references Turbinol 153 and the Pydraul GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 1 OO STLCOPCB4025070 1 fluids , doesn't refresh your recol lection 2 in any way about any contact you m ight have 3 had with that product? 4 A . No. 5 MR. PREUSS: Did you say that 6 problem? 7 Q. No, that product. 8 Mr. Benignus, do you recal 1 a 9 meeting with Westinghouse to descr i b e 1 0 Monsanto ' s -- the i n f o r m a t ion Mods anto had 1 1 about PCB s s o m e t i m e i n 1 9 7 1 ? 1 2 A . I '' m s u r e I w o u 1 d have. I don't at 1 3 the momen t pin i t d own t o any date 1 4 Q. Let me see if I can refre s h your 1 5 recollection. This is Exhibit 992 , which 1 6 purports to be a memorandum from M r . 1 7 Benignus to W. R. Richard dated De c e m b e r 3 , 1 8 1971; subject, meeting with Westin ghouse at 1 9 St. Louis, Thursday, December 16. And is 2 0 that your signature at the bottom? 2 1 A. Right. 2 2 Q. Does this refresh your 2 3 recollection about a meeting with 2 4 Westinghouse in 1971 to discuss at least in 2 5 part PCBs? GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4025071 1 A . Yes 2 Q. What do you rec all about that 3 meeting? 4 A. These were West inghouse people 5 from Bloomington, Indian a, although I 6 see - - yes, Wilburn from south Boston was a 7 trans former plant. Bloo mington was a 8 c a p a c itor plant. Oh, To m Dakin, they were 9 the r esearch organizatio n of Westinghouse. 1 0 Churc hill Borough, that' s Pittsburgh, and 1 1 then Munson, biochemist college Baltimore, 1 2 I had no contact or know ledge of him 1 3 prior . But he was there . Neither did I 1 4 know Kelly. But they we re there. Then 1 5 these others. Several o f these people I 1 6 knew very well; some I d idn't know. And, 1 7 again , this was a meetin g to discuss with 1 8 Westi nghouse what we kne w at this time in 1 9 19 7 1. That was the purp ose of the 20 meeting . 2 1 Q. Do you recall what was discussed 2 2 with Westinghouse concerning what was known 2 3 about P C B s as a n environmen t a 1 contaminant? 2 4 A . Only i n general te r m s . I'm sure 2 5 that subject was discussed t o what GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI i -> a STLCOPCB4025072 1 knowledge was available. 2 Q. And do you recall any specifics of 3 that discussion? 4 A. I don't recall specifics. 5 Q. That's all the questions I have at 6 this time. Thank you very much, Mr. 7 Benignus . 8 A. You're welcome. 9 Q. Off the record. 1 0 (Discussion off the Record) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 1 * C STLCOPCB4025073 1 COMES NOW THE WITNESS, PAUL 3ENIGNUS, 2 and having read the foregoing transcript of 3 the deposition taken on the 14th day of 4 October, 1992, acknowledges by signature 5 hereto that it is a true and accurate 6 transcript of the testimony given on the 7 date hereinabove mentioned. 8 9 10 1 1 PAUL BENIGNUS 1 2 Subscribed and sworn to me before 1 3 this day of 1 4 1 9 9 2. 1 5 My Commission expires: ____________________________ 16 17 18 1 9 Notary Public 20 21 22 23 24 mb 2 5 Transwestern vs. Monsanto GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI 1 oc STLCOPCB4025074 1 State of Missouri ) 2 ) SS . 3 City of St. Louis ) 4 I, Marsha Birenbau m, a Notary Public 5 in and for the State of Missouri, duly 6 commissioned, qualified and authorized to 7 administer oaths and to certify to 8 depositions, do hereby c ertify that 9 pursuant to Agreement in the civil cause 1 0 now pending and undeterm ined in the 1 1 Superior Court for the C ounty of Los 1 2 Angeles, State of Califo rnia, to be used in 1 3 the trial of said cause s aid c o u r t , 1 4 was attended at the offi s o f Bryan C 1 5 One Metropolitan Square, n t h e C i ty o 1 6 i s , State o f Miss o u r i by t h e a f o r e 1 7 ness ; and b y the a f o r a i d a 11 0 r n ey 1 8 o b e r 1 4 , 19 9 2 1 9 The said witness, being of sound mind 2 0 and being by me first ca refully examined 2 1 and duly cautioned and s worn to testify the 2 2 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 2 3 truth in the case afores aid, thereupon 2 4 testified as is shown in the foregoing 2 5 transcript, said testimo ny being by me GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4025075 1 reported in shorthand and caused to be 2 transcribed into typewriting, and that the 3 foregoing pages correctly set forth the 4 testimony of the aforementioned witness, 5 together with the questions propounded by 6 counsel and remarks and objections of 7 counsel thereto, and is in all respects a 8 full, true, correct and complete transcript 9 of the questions propounded to and the 1 0 answers given by said witness; that 1 1 signature of the deponent was not waived by 1 2 agreement of counsel. 1 3 I further certify that I am not of 1 4 counsel or attorney for either of the 1 5 parties to said suit, not related to nor 1 6 interested in any of the parties or their 1 7 attorneys . 1 8 Witness my hand and notarial seal at 1 9 St. Louis, Missouri, this * --J day of 2 0 ___ , 1 9 9 2. 2 1 My Commission expires November 5, 2 2 1 9 9 3. 23 24 2 5 Notary Public-State of Missouri GORE REPORTING COMPANY ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI STLCOPCB4025076