Document 8V4DLqnzRVVOz2mn5MXrqROYy

0001 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 2 FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA 3 EASTERN DIVISION 4 5 CASE NUMBER: CV-98-C-0118-E 6 7 CECIL HINDS and RICHARD HINDS, 8 Plaintiff, 9 10 vs. 11 12 MONSANTO COMPANY, 13 Defendant. 14 15 STIPULATION 16 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED 17 by and between the parties through their 18 respective counsel that the deposition of 19 BRUCE ELEY may be taken before Tanya D. 20 Cornelius, Certified Shorthand Reporter 21 and Notary Public, at the law offices of 22 BURR & FORMAN, Birmingham, Alabama, on 23 the 7th day of October, 1999. 0002 1 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND 2 AGREED that the signature to and the HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033175 3 reading of the deposition by the witness 4 is waived, the deposition to have the 5 same force and effect as if full 6 compliance had been had with all laws and 7 rules of Court relating to the taking of 8 depositions. 9 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND 10 AGREED that it shall not be necessary for 11 any objections to be made by counsel to 12 any questions, except as to form or 13 leading questions, and that counsel for 14 the parties may make objections and 15 assign grounds at the time of the trial, 16 or at the time said deposition is offered 17 in evidence, or prior thereto. 18 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND 19 AGREED that notice of filing of the 20 deposition by the Commissioner is waived. 21 22 23 0003 1 INDEX 2 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE NUMBER: 3 Ms. Block 7 4 5 HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033176 6 EXHIBITS 7 8 Plaintiffs Exhibit No.: 9 20 - Appraiser list 28 10 21 - Cleaning access permission 118 11 22 - Photograph, 12/14/95 101 12 23 - Photograph, 5/19/96 102 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 0004 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 4 BURR & FORMAN 5 BY: Gary L. Howard 6 Rebecca W. Block 7 3100 SouthTrust Tower 8 Birmingham, AL 35203 HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033177 9 10 FOR THE DEFENDANT: 11 SMITH, HELMS, MULLISS 12 & MOORE 13 BY: Edward M. Newsom 14 1355 Peachtree Street, N.E. 15 Suite 750 16 Atlanta, GA 30309 17 18 SMITH, HELMS, MULLISS 19 & MOORE 20 BY: Michael E. Kelly 21 300 North Greene Street 22 Suite 1400 23 Greensboro, NC 27420 0005 1 APPEARANCES (continued) 2 3 ALSO PRESENT: 4 Cecil Hinds 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033178 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 0006 1 I, Tanya D. Cornelius, 2 Certified Shorthand Reporter and Notary 3 Public, acting as Commissioner, certify 4 that on this date, as provided by the 5 Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, and the 6 foregoing stipulation of counsel, there 7 came before me at the law offices of BURR 8 & FORMAN, Birmingham, Alabama, beginning 9 at 2:30 p.m., BRUCE ELEY, witness in the 10 above cause, for oral examination, 11 whereupon the following proceedings were 12 had: 13 14 HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033179 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 0007 1 BRUCE ELEY, 2 being first duly sworn, was examined 3 and testified as follows: 4 5 THE REPORTER: Will this be 6 usual stipulations? 7 MR. NEWSOM: That's fine. 8 MS. BLOCK: Uh-huh (positive 9 response). 10 11 EXAMINATION 12 BY MS .BLOCK: 13 Q. Mr. Eley, my name is Rebecca 14 Block, and I believe we got to meet 15 earlier. 16 A. Yes, we did. 17 Q. And I represent Cecil and HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033180 18 Ricky Hinds in this case. I'm just going 19 to ask you a few background questions to 20 start off with. 21 Go ahead and just state your 22 full name for the record, please. 23 A. Bruce Wayne Eley, E-l-e-y. 0008 1 Q. And you're not on any drugs 2 or medication today that would affect 3 your giving this deposition? 4 A. I am not. 5 Q. What did you do to get ready 6 for this deposition today, if anything? 7 A. Participated in a meeting 8 with my -- the counsel yesterday. 9 Q. Did you review any documents? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Also, please give your Social 12 Security number for the record. 13 A. 431-86-0844. 14 Q. And what's your home address 15 and phone number? 16 A. 1729 Carman Valley Drive, 17 C-a-r-m-a-n, St. Louis, Missouri 63021. 18 Telephone number at home is (314) 19 256-9220. 20 Q. And how long have you lived HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033181 21 there? 22 A. Since 1985. 23 Q. And with whom are you 0009 1 employed? 2 A. Solutia, Inc. 3 Q. And Solutia is a spinoff of 4 Monsanto? 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q. I'm going to show you what's 7 been marked as Plaintiffs Exhibit 1 and 8 ask you if you've seen that before. 9 A. (Witness reviews document.) 10 I've seen Sheets 1, 2, and 3. I don't 11 know whether I've seen 4 or 5. I don't 12 recall seeing 4 or 5. 13 Q. Well, on Page 2, there should 14 be -- I think there are eight numbered 15 paragraphs. 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. Do you have knowledge about 18 those topics, those eight topics that are 19 listed? 20 A. Most of my knowledge would 21 focus on No. 1, No. 3, No. 5, No. 6, and 22 No. 7 from the standpoint of any 23 communications I've had, and I have some HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033182 0010 1 general knowledge of No. 7 and No. 8 to 2 some extent. 3 Q. Do you understand that you're 4 here today testifying on behalf of 5 Monsanto or Solutia? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And I'll use those terms 8 interchangeably, Monsanto and Solutia. 9 Do you remember giving a deposition back 10 in September of 1998 in the Dire v. 11 Monsanto case? 12 A. I remember giving a 13 deposition in the Dire case. I'm just 14 not sure exactly what the timing was. 15 MS. BLOCK: Ijustwantto 16 make sure we have the same agreement with 17 respect to the use of that deposition -- 18 MR. NEWSOM: Yes. 19 MS. BLOCK: -inthis case 20 as we did earlier with Mr. Faust. 21 MR. NEWSOM: Yes. 22 Q. (By Ms. Block) And, Mr. 23 Eley, have you ever been charged with or 0011 1 convicted of a crime? 2 A. No. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033183 3 Q. Okay. Now to the fun stuff. 4 How long have you worked for Monsanto or 5 Solutia? 6 A. I've worked for Monsanto/ 7 Solutia since 1969. 8 Q. And what's your job title 9 now? 10 A. Manager, environmental 11 affairs as a part of a corporate staff 12 group called Environment, Safety, and 13 Health. 14 Q. And what are your duties and 15 responsibilities in that position? 16 A. Generally my duties are to 17 provide environmental technical support 18 to plants, other staff groups within our 19 company. 20 Q. And when you say 21 environmental technical support, what 22 would that entail? 23 A. Generally that's been in the 0012 1 area of occupational environmental 2 health, industrial hygiene, industrial 3 hygiene auditing, performing -- or 4 involved in projects on material safety 5 data sheets; and over the last couple of HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033184 6 years, I've spent a lot of time involved 7 in the Anniston project. 8 Q. And what do you mean when you 9 say the Anniston project? 10 A. That's the Anniston 11 remediation project that is being managed 12 by Alan Faust. 13 Q. And what's the extent of your 14 involvement in that remediation project? 15 A. My involvement principally 16 has been in the area of coordinating off17 site sampling of soils for PCBs, involved 18 in -- to some extent in purchased 19 properties, primarily commercial 20 properties. I've been involved in some 21 of the cleaning of the residences in the 22 east side area. I've been involved in 23 several of the demolition projects and 0013 1 I've also been involved in several of 2 the -- what I call spot remediations and 3 in some of the off-site areas. 4 Q. Give me an example of spot 5 remediation. 6 A. A spot remediation would be 7 having sampled many areas around the 8 plant for PCB in soil. There is -- as an HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033185 9 example, near West 10th Street in Pine 10 Grove right beside a ditch, we found a 11 small area of property there that had a 12 level of, I believe, twenty-five PPM -- 13 twenty to twenty-five PPM. 14 And so we had a procedure 15 that we used to go in and remove the 16 surface soils that contained PCBs and 17 take those to an area on the Monsanto 18 property where we did cap and fill and 19 then bring in clean fill material and 20 re-sod that particular area. 21 Q. So it would involve cleaning 22 up just an area of a piece of property, 23 as opposed to the entire tract of 0014 1 property; is that what you're saying? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. You said you were involved in 4 the property purchase program at the 5 Anniston remediation project? 6 A. I've been involved in 7 purchase of properties, primarily some of 8 the commercial properties. 9 Q. What commercial property 10 purchases have you been involved in in 11 the Anniston area? HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033186 12 A. The Suggs warehouse property, 13 the McGough warehouse property, the Woods 14 property, the Pat Pace property, the 15 Andalusia Stop 'N Go Food Mart property, 16 the Miller property, and a right-of-way 17 owned by a person named Carr, C-a-r-r. I 18 think that's primarily it. 19 Q. Now, if s my understanding 20 that the property purchase program was 21 for residential properties only; is that 22 correct? 23 A. The Monsanto property 0015 1 purchase program was focused on 2 residential properties, initially on the 3 east side of the Monsanto plant or now 4 the Solutia plant. 5 Q. But you were involved in the 6 purchase of some commercial property? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. And those purchases were not 9 a part of the Monsanto property purchase 10 program? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. What was the extent of your 13 involvement in the residential property 14 purchase program? HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033187 15 A. After the property purchase 16 program evolved into a -- and I'm not 17 sure whether it was a Phase II or a Phase 18 III involving property directly north of 19 Monsanto. Then I had some involvement 20 with the Prudential people that were on 21 site in terms of introducing them to the 22 various property owners on the north side 23 area. 0016 1 Q. I'm going to show you what's 2 been marked as Plaintiffs Exhibit 5 and 3 ask you if you've ever seen that before? 4 A. (Witness reviews document.) 5 I'm not sure I've specifically seen this 6 particular document. This document was 7 focusing on what was called Phase II -- 8 that's what's written on the front -- and 9 dealt with the purchase property program 10 for Montrose Avenue, and I don't know 11 whether I had ever seen this particular 12 document. 13 Q. Can you tell by looking at it 14 what it is? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. What is it? 17 A. This is the details of the HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033188 18 Monsanto purchase property program 19 specific to the 600, 700, 800, 900 blocks 20 of Montrose Avenue. 21 Q. On -- let me see it back for 22 a second. I don't have an extra copy. 23 A. (Witness hands document to 0017 1 counsel.) 2 Q. On Page 7 of this document, 3 there seems to be an outline of the 4 specific offer from Monsanto and how that 5 would be determined for a piece of 6 property. Is that the same format that 7 would have been used to determine the 8 offer for the other phases of the 9 residential property purchase program? 10 A. I believe that's correct. 11 Q. And that method of 12 calculating the offer includes a -- well, 13 why don't you just go over it for me? 14 What are the elements of determining the 15 offer under the -- 16 A. The elements as listed in the 17 document are the appraised value, the 18 premium over appraised value; and under 19 that, there were two parts, seventy-five 20 percent of appraised value for owner- HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033189 21 occupied, and then fifty percent of the 22 appraised value for rental property 23 owners. And then there is a listing of 0018 1 miscellaneous expense allowances, 2 including four thousand dollars for 3 owner-occupied homeowners and one 4 thousand for rental property owners. 5 There's also listed a legal 6 assistance and tax advisor allowance of 7 fifteen hundred -- excuse me, one hundred 8 and fifty dollars, and a potential bonus 9 for early appraisal sign-up of three 10 thousand five hundred. 11 Q. Why was that document 12 generated? 13 MR. NEWSOM: The only thing 14 I'll say, Rebecca, I mean, I know -- this 15 is fine, I'm not trying to -- but I think 16 Alan has addressed that on behalf of the 17 corporate entity, and I don't know 18 whether you're trying to get something 19 new or different, and obviously I want to 20 give you some leeway, but I do think Alan 21 addressed that on behalf of the corporate 22 entity who is the deponent here. 23 MS. BLOCK: Okay. As long as HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033190 0019 1 we've got that background, I'll just ask 2 my next question. 3 MR. NEWSOM: I'm not trying 4 to, you know -- but I do think that's in 5 the record, fairly speaking. 6 Q. (By Ms. Block) Who at 7 Monsanto or Solutia was in charge of that 8 property purchase program? 9 A. I don't know. It was -- this 10 particular program was designed and 11 implemented prior to me coming on site 12 doing the various project work I was 13 doing. 14 Q. Do you know who would know 15 who put that program together? 16 A. It may be a Dr. Bob Kaley, 17 K-a4-e-y. 18 Q. Do you know who was in charge 19 of administering that program? 20 A. The people that were 21 administering the program day-to-day 22 worked -- and there were several people, 23 worked for the Prudential Relocation 0020 1 Service, Prudential Real Estate office. 2 Q. I believe it's been testified HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033191 3 earlier by another corporate 4 representative that the purpose of the 5 Monsanto property purchase program was to 6 help residents in an affected 7 neighborhood afford to relocate to a new 8 area. Would you agree or disagree with 9 that? 10 A. I really don't have the 11 background information on that to do 12 either one. 13 Q. So you don't know why 14 Monsanto was going around buying up 15 property in the neighborhood around the 16 Anniston plant? 17 A. I generally know why we put 18 the -- why we had a purchase property 19 program. 20 Q. And why was that? 21 A. That was to purchase property 22 along an east side ditch where PCBs had 23 been detected and which periodically 0021 1 flooded. There was a need for corrective 2 action, remediation in that particular 3 area, and the only way that you could 4 carry out that remediation was to have 5 control and access of the properties. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033192 6 Q. Were all the properties that 7 you bought adjacent to the contaminated 8 ditch? 9 A. As a part of the purchase 10 property program? 11 Q. Correct. 12 A. Again, I was not a part of 13 the residential purchase property 14 program. I think most of those 15 properties were along the ditch, right 16 outside the ditch, or in as a part of the 17 -- as an integral part of that community. 18 Q. Do you know why they had the 19 sign-up bonus and the premium amount, be 20 it seventy-five or fifty percent, for the 21 residential property owners? 22 A. No, I do not. 23 Q. Do you know why they had the 0022 1 tax advisor amount? 2 A. No. 3 Q. How did you go about deciding 4 to buy commercial properties? 5 A. I think the -- certainly for 6 the commercial properties, it was on a 7 case-by-case basis. There were a number 8 of commercial properties, specifically, HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033193 9 for example, the Miller property and the 10 Ronnie Carr property, that was required 11 for us to complete the remediation 12 efforts over on the east side of our 13 plant. 14 Q. Did you go out and test the 15 properties before you bought them, test 16 them for PCBs? 17 A. The Miller property we tested 18 to a great extent. We had a large number 19 of samples on the Miller property. The 20 Carr property, I don't know whether we 21 had any specific soil sampling on that 22 strip. And it was literally a strip, 23 fifty-foot wide south of the Miller 0023 1 property, north of West 10th Street. 2 Q. How about the other 3 properties, did you test them? 4 A. The Miller property we have 5 tested. I think most of those 6 properties, yes, that I listed a while 7 ago, we've tested. 8 Q. Do you remember what the 9 results were? 10 A. Generally. 11 Q. Well, we can go down the HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033194 12 list. What were the results on the Pace 13 properties? 14 A. Within the boundary of that 15 property, I think it was from nondetect 16 to seven PPM. 17 Q. How about at the Stop 'N Go? 18 A. The Stop 'N Go, the levels 19 were below the screening level, nondetect 20 to three hundred, three hundred and fifty 21 PPM. 22 Q. And at Anniston Equipment 23 Rental, did it have levels up to a 0024 1 hundred PPMs? 2 A. Up to and over a hundred PPMs. 3 MS. BLOCK: I'm trying not to 4 go over old ground. 5 MR. NEWSOM: No. I 6 understand. 7 Q. (By Ms. Block) How about the 8 Suggs property? 9 A. The Suggs property, I 10 believe, was up to perhaps twenty PPM on 11 the rear of that property. 12 Q. And is it McGough? 13 A. If s either McGough or 14 McGoff HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033195 15 Q. McGough or McGoff, what were 16 the levels on that property? 17 A. I believe the highest levels 18 we saw on that property were 19 approximately thirty PPM, and that was at 20 the very northwest comer of the 21 property, which was very, very close to 22 the ditch that ran behind the Lambert 23 Recycling business. 0025 1 Q. Why did you buy these 2 particular properties? 3 A. The McGoff property, or 4 McGough property, and the Suggs property, 5 when we had those properties -- we were 6 appraising and looking at purchasing 7 those properties, the reason we bought 8 them is for the construction activity 9 that was being planned in that north side 10 area. 11 Q. Okay. What did the 12 construction activity have to do with you 13 needing the property, I guess, is what 14 I'm missing? 15 A. Well, towards the rear of the 16 Suggs property is where the ditch was. 17 Q. Okay. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033196 18 A. And so the engineering 19 solution that exists today in essence 20 consists of a detention basin that sits 21 on, partially, where that warehouse and 22 land used to be. 23 Q. So you bought property where 0026 1 you needed it for the remediation 2 project? 3 A. Where it was -- where we 4 needed it for the remediation project and 5 where that property was in -- or was 6 impacted by the drainage or flooding from 7 that particular ditch. And that's where 8 we did the remediation construction work. 9 Q. Okay. How did you determine 10 what you were going to pay for those 11 properties? And maybe I should ask it 12 another way. 13 We just went over the list 14 and the format for the residential 15 property purchase program. Did you have 16 any kind of format or anything like that 17 that was used to come up with an offer 18 for these commercial properties? 19 A. Generally the offer was the 20 appraised value of the property. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033197 21 Q. Who had the property 22 appraised? 23 A. In just about all cases, I 0027 1 did. 2 Q. You hired an appraiser? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. And you paid the appraiser? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. Do you remember any cases 7 where there was some other method of 8 coming up with the purchase price or the 9 offer? 10 A. In one case, there had been 11 an appraisal done independent by the 12 owner of the property, and he was willing 13 to take the appraised value based on that 14 appraisal. 15 Q. How do you select the 16 appraisers that you use? 17 A. I think the way that we ended 18 up selecting our commercial appraisers is 19 looking at the appraisers that were used 20 in the residential property program. 21 There were some of those that were not 22 only residential, but also commercial 23 appraisers, and at the same time are -- HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033198 0028 1 the individuals working for Prudential 2 got to know a lot of the appraisers and 3 had a pretty good idea of who good 4 independent appraisers were in the 5 Anniston area. 6 7 (Whereupon, Plaintiffs 8 Exhibit No. 20 was marked 9 for identification.) 10 11 Q. I'm going to show you what 12 I've marked as Plaintiffs Exhibit No. 20 13 and ask you if you have -- do you know 14 what that is? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. What is that? 17 A. This is a list of -- an 18 appraiser list that I believe was put 19 together by the Prudential people. And 20 this was used as a handout or information 21 that was given to individuals to select 22 appraisers under the purchase property 23 program. 0029 1 Q. Did you select your 2 appraisers for the commercial properties HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033199 3 from that list? 4 A. There was only one of these 5 -- one person that I see here that we 6 used as a commercial appraiser. 7 Q. And which one is that? 8 A. Karen Burke, B-u-r-k-e. 9 Q. Do you know what, if 10 anything, the appraisers of the 11 commercial property were instructed with 12 respect to taking into account the PCB 13 contamination of the properties when 14 coming up with an appraised value? 15 A. I think generally we -- or I 16 told the appraisers to disregard any 17 contamination. 18 Q. And why is that? 19 A. I think that that was 20 typically the way that we had gone about 21 the other appraisals that were done in 22 this program right here. And so we just 23 continued on having the appraiser 0030 1 disregard any contamination, recognizing 2 that there were some properties that were 3 industrial properties that had an 4 industrial history for many, many years. 5 Q. Do you know why the HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033200 6 residential property purchase program 7 appraisers did not consider contamination 8 in coming up with their appraised values? 9 A. No, I do not. 10 Q. And you did it that way for 11 the commercial property just because 12 that's how they had done it for the 13 residential program? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. I'm going to show you what 16 has been marked as Plaintiffs Exhibit 17 No. 19. And that is a map that Mr. Faust 18 has marked with green Xs. And correct me 19 if I'm wrong here. 20 MR. NEWSOM: Green and Xs 21 both are correct. 22 Q. I'm pretty sure about the 23 green Xs, parcels of property that 0031 1 Monsanto has bought that have structures 2 on them; is that right? 3 MR. NEWSOM: Structures that 4 they have bought. 5 Q. Structures that Monsanto has 6 bought. I just want you to look over 7 that for a minute, however long it 8 takes. And if there are any other HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033201 9 structures, commercial or otherwise, that 10 you are aware of that Monsanto has bought 11 that are not marked on there, please mark 12 them. 13 A. Okay. 14 MR. NEWSOM: The only thing I 15 would say is I think Gary's question was 16 with the borders of Montrose, 10th, and 17 Clydesdale. 18 MS. BLOCK: That's correct. 19 MR. NEWSOM: Because there 20 are some -- okay. 21 MS. BLOCK: That's correct. 22 You're right. 23 THE WITNESS: The borders 0032 1 of -- 2 MR. NEWSOM: Montrose, 10th, 3 and Clydesdale is what -- 4 Q. (By Ms. Block) That's right. 5 A. Right in this area 6 (indicating)? 7 Q. That's right. And for the 8 record, he's using a blue pen. 9 MR. NEWSOM: Do you want him 10 to use green? 11 MS. BLOCK: I think blue, so HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033202 12 we can remember which were additional. 13 MR. NEWSOM: I'll volunteer 14 my pen. 15 MS. BLOCK: Thank you. 16 THE WITNESS: I don't think 17 your pen is real blue. 18 MR. NEWSOM: You can't bear 19 down real hard. That's the key. 20 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. 21 MS. BLOCK: Is it sensitive? 22 MR. NEWSOM: It's sensitive. 23 0033 1 (Whereupon, a discussion off 2 the record was held.) 3 4 A. Do we include on this side of 5 Montrose (indicating)? 6 Q. (By Ms. Block) No. 7 MR. NEWSOM: We were just 8 inside. 9 Q. It was just inside. 10 A. (Witness complies.) Okay. 11 Q. Great. Now, I believe it was 12 said before that all of the green X 13 structures, with the exception of one, 14 had been demolished, and I just wonder HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033203 15 what happened to the additional -- I 16 think I see four structures that you've 17 marked. What happened to those 18 structures? 19 A. These have all been 20 demolished. 21 Q. Okay. Do you think that 22 created any dust when they demolished 23 those properties? 0034 1 MR. NEWSOM: Let me just 2 object to the form of the question. It's 3 vague and ambiguous. I don't know 4 whether that suggests dust is created 5 right there as it's going on, whether 6 dust leaves the boundaries of the 7 property. I just object as vague and 8 ambiguous. 9 Q. Let me ask it another way. 10 Did Monsanto use any dust prevention 11 measures to keep dust from traveling when 12 they demolished those structures? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. Something I forgot to 15 ask earlier, what was the agreement with 16 Prudential about the residential property 17 purchase program; do you know? HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033204 18 A. I don't know what you mean by 19 agreement with the Prudential people. 20 Q. Why did Prudential agree to 21 run the residential property purchase 22 program for y'all? Did you pay them? 23 A. We did pay them, yes. 0035 1 Q. What did you pay them? 2 A. I don't know. 3 Q. Do you know if they got 4 commissions? 5 A. I have no idea what the cost 6 or what the payment structure was. 7 Q. I just wondered. Do you know 8 if the demolition of those structures 9 that we've marked on Plaintiffs Exhibit 10 19 had any effect on storm water drainage 11 or flow across the Hinds property? 12 A. No, I do not. 13 Q. Do you know of any 14 discussions at Monsanto involving any 15 desire to be consistent in purchasing 16 commercial property and residential 17 property? 18 MR. NEWSOM: Object to the 19 form. Vague and ambiguous. 20 Q. That's not a good question. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033205 211 think we've established that the 22 residential property program and the way 23 you went about buying up commercial 0036 1 property were different. Would you agree 2 with that? 3 A. Yes, I would say that, yes. 4 Q. Do you know why you treated 5 the commercial property differently from 6 the residential property? 7 A. No. I don't believe I was 8 there at that particular time when those 9 decisions were made. 10 Q. Who told you how to go about 11 buying up commercial property? 12 A. I think it was the 13 remediation management group, remediation 14 management team that put together the 15 engineering plans, the construction plans 16 for remediation and what properties they 17 needed. 18 Q. And they told you that you 19 didn't need to get three appraisals, and 20 you didn't need to pay a premium; you 21 didn't need to pay a signing bonus for 22 the commercial properties? 23 A. I don't believe there was HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033206 0037 1 ever any discussion to that extent 2 telling me that no, I didn't have to do 3 this or this. 4 Q. Okay. So it was just your-- 5 you were in charge then of how you went 6 about buying the commercial property? 7 A. No, no. 8 Q. Okay. Who did decide that 9 you didn't have to pay a premium and that 10 you didn't have to get three appraisals? 11 A. Again, I'm not sure, because 12 that would depend -- or would have been 13 around the time, I believe, when they 14 initiated the purchase property program 15 in 1995, because I came on board in 16 earnest in that project in March of 1996. 17 Q. Okay. So when you came in in 18 March '96, you knew one of your job 19 responsibilities was to go buy commercial 20 property around the plant? 21 A. Not at that time, no. 22 Q. When did it become your 23 responsibility to buy commercial property 0038 1 for the company? 2 A. I think that's something that HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033207 3 evolved over time. I didn't really get 4 involved in commercial property 5 transactions until we had -- or as we 6 were doing our soil sampling in the 7 various off-site areas. 8 Q. When would that have been? 9 A. That started in March of 1996 10 and continued through 1996 into 19 -- 1 11 think maybe into 1997. 12 Q. What was the first piece of 13 commercial property that you purchased in 14 this remediation area? 15 A. I think the first one I was 16 involved in was the Miller property. 17 Q. Did you approach the Millers, 18 or did they come talk to you, or Mr. or 19 Mrs. Miller? I don't know. 20 A. The initial purchase of the 21 -- whether it be -- I think it was 22 approximately two-thirds of the Miller 23 estate property. We approached them. 0039 1 And when I say we, myself and Alan Faust. 2 Q. Did you make them an offer? 3 A. I think we had an appraisal 4 done on that property, and then soon 5 after made an offer. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033208 6 Q. Based on a single appraisal? 7 A. I think we did two 8 appraisals. 9 Q. Okay. What did you do, 10 average them to come up with your offer? 11 A. In that case, I think we 12 looked at those appraisals, and I think, 13 in a number of cases, took the high 14 appraisal. 15 Q. Did you offer them a premium? 16 A. No. The offer was based 17 strictly on the appraised value of the 18 property. 19 Q. So they didn't get a premium 20 or an early sign-up bonus like the 21 residential property owners got? 22 A. No. 23 Q. My question is: Why didn't 0040 1 they get the premium and the early 2 sign-up bonus that the residential 3 property owners got? 4 A. I don't know. 5 Q. How did you decide just to 6 use the higher appraisal? 7 A. I think there were some cases 8--1 think in most cases, we used the HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033209 9 highest appraisal of the two, but not in 10 all cases. There's other cases where we 11 used, I think, not an average, but 12 something that was toward the high side. 13 Q. Well, how did you decide 14 whether to use the higher appraisal or 15 something in between? 16 MR. NEWSOM: Generally or in 17 any specific-- 18 MS. BLOCK: Generally. 19 A. Well, generally what we would 20 do is we would review the appraisal. And 21a commercial real estate appraisal is 22 based on an approximate valuation given 23 by the appraiser which is based on three 0041 1 approaches, cost approach, an income 2 approach, and a sales or value approach, 3 where in a third one you would go out and 4 look at that property versus comparable 5 properties in the area. And the 6 appraiser would highlight each one of 7 those three. And then he would -- he or 8 she would then come in with the 9 valuation. 10 I or I and Alan would review 11 those appraisals; and in certain cases, HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033210 12 there may be an approach that was 13 somewhat weaker than another approach for 14 an appraisal. And so it was trying to 15 look at those two appraisals, how close 16 they were together, and looking at the 17 various approaches that were being used 18 and the various comps that were used by 19 one appraiser versus another appraiser 20 and then coming out with an offer. 21 Q. So it was in yours or yours 22 and Mr. Faust's discretion as to how to 23 come up with the offer for commercial 0042 1 properties? 2 A. I think how to. It may not 3 have been the specific offer. I think in 4 the specific offer, it was in -- based on 5 the remediation management group, which 6 would have been Alan and perhaps Alan's 7 boss. 8 Q. Alan's boss being? 9 A. Mike Forstman. 10 Q. Was it yours or yours and Mr. 11 Faust's discretion whether to use the 12 highest -- the higher appraisal or 13 something in between? 14 A. I think between Alan Faust HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033211 15 and myself, yes, we had some discretion. 16 Q. So would it be fair to say 17 that y'all would get together, decide on 18 what y'all thought the offer should be 19 based on the appraisals, and then go to 20 the remediation management team for the 21 final approval? 22 A. I'm not sure, but I think 23 that Alan then would take that forward, 0043 1 perhaps to his boss. 2 Q. Well, how would you know what 3 the final result was so that you know 4 what offer to make? 5 A. Alan would communicate that 6 back to me. 7 Q. So were you the person that 8 went to the Millers and said, Hey, here's 9 what we're offering to buy your property? 10 A. For the Millers, I believe 11 that Alan and I met with the Millers. I 12 believe that was the situation. 13 Q. Okay. Did you -- of the list 14 that we made earlier of the commercial 15 property purchases that you were involved 16 in, did you approach all of those 17 property owners, or did some of them come HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033212 18 to you? When I say you, I mean Monsanto. 19 A. Some of them came to 20 Monsanto. 21 Q. Do you know which ones those 22 were? 23 A. Mr. Michael Woods came to 0044 1 me. Jeff Miller came to Monsanto/ 2 Solutia on the purchase of what I would 3 call the Miller estate two property, 4 which consisted of the one-third of the 5 western portion of the Miller property. 6 Q. Right. 7 A. Mr. Ronnie Carr came to 8 Monsanto to purchase a strip of railroad 9 right-of-way that he had acquired. 10 Q. Anybody else? 11 A. Mr. Pat Pace came to me on 12 the possibility of us purchasing a piece 13 of property that he had on Clydesdale. I 14 think we may have mentioned the Andalusia 15 Stop 'N Go Food Mart. 16 Q. Yes. 17 A. I think at that time, it was 18 owned by a fellow named Joe Saxon, and 19 then it was acquired by Andalusia 20 Enterprises, and Joe Saxon came -- in HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033213 21 fact, Joe Saxon and Andalusia voiced 22 interest to me personally. 23 Q. When these people came to you 0045 1 or came to Monsanto about buying their 2 properties, had the property been tested 3 already? 4 A. I'm not so sure that the 5 Woods property was ever tested. By 6 tested, I mean sampling of soil in or on 7 that particular property. I think the 8 other ones that we've talked about, yes, 9 I believe that soil sampling had been 10 done on those properties. 11 Q. So you bought the Woods 12 property even though you weren't sure 13 whether there were PCBs on the property? 14 A. I think, to the best of our 15 knowledge, we didn't think there was any 16 PCBs on the property, at least not above 17 the screening levels. 18 Q. Why did you buy that 19 property? 20 A. Mr. Woods came to me, 21 indicating that his father, I think, a 22 year prior to that time, had been 23 murdered in that building. That murder HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033214 0046 1 had not been solved. They were still 2 looking for the weapon and the person 3 that was responsible. 4 He had run -- or his father 5 had run a furniture restoration business 6 out of that building, and both he and -- 7 I believe it was his -- Mr. Woods' 8 daughter or his sister, had absolutely no 9 interest at all in ever coming inside the 10 building again. It had really bothered 11 them. And that building was adjacent to 12 some of the property that we had 13 purchased as part of the residential 14 purchase property program. 15 And Mr. Woods had recently 16 had an appraisal done, and he shared with 17 me the appraisal. And I told him that I 18 would take his proposal back to the 19 remediation management group, which I 20 did. 21 And the remediation 22 management group at that time had been 23 talking with the maintenance people there 0047 1 at Solutia, or then Monsanto, about any 2 building that we might have that could be HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033215 3 used by a contractor there at the plant 4 for a welding shop, off-site welding 5 shop. And the remediation management 6 then said, Well, that might be the 7 building that might be able to serve in 8 that capacity. And so I was told that if 9 we could, in fact, purchase that property 10 for the appraised value, which I had at 11 the time, then they would agree to that. 12 I went back to Mr. Woods and 13 indicated that we would, in fact, 14 purchase that for the appraised value, 15 and he agreed. And so we consummated the 16 purchase of that. So that's how that 17 occurred. 18 Q. Did you, in fact, use it for 19 an off-site welding shop? 20 A. No, we did not. We had the 21 contractor -- the representatives from 22 the Monsanto maintenance group, along 23 with some of the structural engineers 0048 1 went over there, and we toured that 2 facility. We looked at it, and they 3 finally, I think, made a determination 4 that the beams, particularly the ceiling 5 joists, appeared to be fairly unstable, HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033216 6 particularly if you had any -- and we 7 don't have a lot of snow and ice in 8 Anniston, but they felt that if we were 9 to have much of a snow load on that 10 building, it would just topple in, and 11 that we did not have enough money in 12 there to really repair it or beef it up 13 structurally. So we decided that it was 14 not acceptable for that particular 15 purpose. 16 Q. You didn't bother to do that 17 before you went ahead and bought the 18 property? 19 A. No, we did not. 20 Q. Do you still need a welding 21 shop today? 22 A. I don't know whether we do or 23 not. 0049 1 Q. Did you ever approach Mr. 2 Bobby Lewis about purchasing his 3 property, which I believe is better known 4 as the ice house? 5 A. No. I think when I was a 6 part of the project initially, like I 7 said, in March 1996,1 don't know whether 8 Mr. Lewis at that time had filed suit. I HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033217 9 never had any dealings and only met him 10 on one occasion. 11 Q. So did you have any 12 discussions with him at all about 13 purchasing his property when you met him? 14 A. No. As I say, I only met him 15 onetime. 16 Q. How about the funeral home? 17 1 think it's called the Model City 18 Funeral Home. 19 A. I believe if s called the 20 Model City Mortuary. As I understand it, 21 if s owned by Sylvester Harris. I may be 22 incorrect on that. 23 Q. That's correct. 0050 1 A. But I have never met Mr. 2 Harris nor had any discussions at all 3 with any of the ownership of that 4 structure. 5 Q. How about the two churches, 6 Mars Hill and Bethel, were you involved 7 in the purchase of either of those 8 properties? 9 A. No. I was involved -- I 10 participated in some meetings which Alan 11 Faust had with a church committee there HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033218 12 at the Bethel Missionary Baptist Church, 13 and I was involved in the purchase of 14 furnishing--or furniture. I 15 essentially furnished the church. But I 16 was not involved in the actual 17 construction or the relocation of the 18 church. 19 Q. I'm just curious. Are you a 20 decorator -- or I mean, how did you end 21 up doing the furnishings? 22 A. Believe me, I wish I knew. 23 That was quite an experience. No. I had 0051 1 some help. We had a real good 2 committee. 3 Q. I was just wondering. 4 A. The ladies, as a part of the 5 committee, had some very good ideas on 6 what they wanted, so -- 7 Q. I'm a former Baptist myself, 8 and I can't imagine working with a bunch 9 of Baptist women trying to decorate a 10 church. I'm very impressed. 11 So I'm sorry. I should have 12 asked this before. You didn't have any 13 involvement with approaching Bobby Lewis 14 about buying just a particular portion of HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033219 15 his property or anything like that? 16 A. No, I did not. 17 Q. You don't know anything about 18 that? Okay. I'm about to get into a lot 19 of questions about your discussions and 20 conversations with the Hindses. This 21 might be a good time to take a break if 22 anybody wants to. 23 MR. NEWSOM: And he had more 0052 1 of those, obviously, than Alan. 2 MS. BLOCK: Right. 3 MR. NEWSOM: Is that kind of 4 the last area, or do you know? 5 6 (Whereupon, a discussion off 7 the record was held.) 8 9 (Whereupon, a brief recess 10 was taken.) 11 12 Q. (By Ms. Block) All right. 13 I'm going to do it this way: I just want 14 you to tell me about all the times that 15 you have talked with either Richard or 16 Cecil Hinds. 17 A. I think the first time I HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033220 18 talked with both -- and met Cecil Hinds 19 and, at the same time, Ricky Hinds, was 20 the first part of April 1996. That's 21 when I and Alan Faust went over to the 22 pawn shop to review for Cecil and Ricky 23 Hinds the progress being made and plans 0053 1 over the remediation area on the east 2 side of the plant. 3 Q. What did you tell them about 4 the remediation efforts on that side of 5 the plant? 6 A. We had two sampling maps that 7 we took along with us and showed Mr. 8 Hinds. One was called the Expanded A 9 Area Sampling. Another one was Sediment 10 Soil Sampling in Area A. And the purpose 11 of that was to review with them all the 12 sampling that had been done, showing 13 where the ditches, the drainage ditches 14 ran and where we had detected higher 15 levels of PCBs. 16 Q. Why did y'all go there to 17 talk to them? 18 A. I think generally to make the 19 people around in that area more aware of 20 the status of the project and what was HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033221 21 going on. 22 Q. So it wasn't just the Hinds? 23 You went to talk to -- you went to talk 0054 1 to other people in the area? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. What did the Hinds -- either 4 Ricky or Cecil, what did they say to you 5 about the remediation? I mean, what did 6 they say in response to what you told 7 them? 8 A. I don't recall specifically. 9 Nothing comes to mind -- 10 Q. Were they happy about -- 11 A. -- specific responses. 12 Q. Were they happy about what 13 you were telling them? 14 A. I think that -- I sensed that 15 they were pleased that we came by and 16 updated them on the progress and what we 17 were doing. 18 Q. Okay. When was the next time 19 you talked to them? 20 A. I think the next time was the 21 next day, because several of the property 22 owners, the local property owners had 23 requested that we do some additional soil HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033222 0055 1 sampling, specifically on their 2 property. 3 As best I can recall, I 4 called Cecil Hinds and said, Would you 5 like us to take some additional sampling 6 or sampling on your property, recognizing 7 that some of the sampling had been done 8 in 1995 may or may not -- may or may not 9 have been specifically on your property. 10 And Mr. Hinds agreed to that. 11 And so the sampling people, 12 the sampling team that we used happened 13 to be in town. And so I took them over 14 to the pawn shop -- I think it was the 15 3rd of April of 1996 -- and met with, I 16 believe, both Cecil Hinds and Ricky 17 Hinds. I don't know about Ricky, but 18 certainly Cecil was there, I believe. 19 And we toured the outside of the facility 20 and looked at various areas where we 21 could take samples of turf. 22 Q. And did you take samples that 23 day? 0056 1 A. There were samples taken by 2 the sampling team that day, I believe on HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033223 3 the 3rd. 4 Q. What else did you tell Mr. 5 Hinds that day? 6 A. The only other thing I can 7 recall is that -- on how we took the 8 samples, and I don't know whether that 9 was myself or Mike Price, who was the 10 sampling team leader, indicated that. 11 And that when we got the results, I would 12 communicate those results back to him. 13 Q. When was the next time you 14 saw the Hindses? 15 A. I know I saw and met with 16 Cecil Hinds and Ricky Hinds on May 15th, 17 1996, because that was the date that I 18 had communicated sampling results of the 19 prior sampling. Whether for any reason I 20 happened to drop by the pawn shop prior 21 to that, I just don't know. But I think 22 at that time, myself, accompanied, I 23 believe, by Alan Faust, went over there 0057 1 and communicated sampling results to Mr. 2 Hinds. 3 Q. Did you tell him orally, or 4 did you have the results printed out 5 somehow for him? HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033224 6 A. No. The results were printed 7 out in a written communication to him. 8 Q. This is Plaintiffs Exhibit 9 No. 8 (indicating). Would that be the 10 written communication that you're 11 referring to? 12 A. That is correct. 13 Q. So you hand-delivered that 14 letter to the Hindses? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. And I believe that Mr. Alan 18 Faust accompanied me on that visit. 19 Q. And what does that letter say 20 about the results of the PCB sampling? 21 A. It says that there were five 22 samples taken. It talks about where the 23 five samples were taken. It indicates 0058 1 that three of those samples were below 2 the screening level of the test that was 3 used. Two of those samples were above 4 the screening level and more definitively 5 analyzed, and the results were, in this 6 case, six point one PPM and nine point 7 nine PPM, and it indicates the specific 8 location for each one of those sample HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033225 9 results. 10 Q. Did you ever tell Cecil Hinds 11 that there was no need to worry about the 12 PCB -- the presence of PCBs on his 13 property? 14 MR. NEWSOM: Let me just -- 15 this is not as much an objection. That 16 Mr. Hinds didn't need to worry, or it was 17 not a concern to him? I mean, there 18 could be -- the wording could be 19 significant. I don't know if you're 20 asking him whether he mentioned those 21 exact words. I think you're just saying 22 generally was there a discussion, 23 which -- it could be subject to 0059 1 interpretations. That's why I -- 2 Q. Let me ask it in two parts. 3 Did Mr. Hinds ever express any concern to 4 you about the levels of PCBs that were 5 found on his property? 6 A. I don't believe so. I think 7 the concern that Mr. Hinds had regarding 8 any level of PCBs found on the property 9 is the significance of those levels in 10 the context of getting or acquiring a 11 business loan from a local lender. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033226 12 Q. Okay. So he did have some 13 concerns with respect to how it might 14 affect his ability to get a loan? 15 A. That was my understanding. 16 Q. Did you ever tell him that 17 you would take care of any problems with 18 him getting a loan on his property? 19 A. As best I can remember, at 20 that time when we communicated sampling 21 results and -- myself and Mr. Faust to 22 Mr. Hinds, Mr. Hinds certainly surfaced 23 that concern, and I believe that I or Mr. 0060 1 Faust indicated to Mr. Hinds that we were 2 certainly prepared to remediate that 3 portion of the property where the results 4 were greater than the screening level, 5 and that we would certainly work with him 6 to resolve any issues that the bank had 7 concerning continuation of the loan or a 8 new loan. 9 Q. Did you tell Mr. Hinds that 10 you would work with him to resolve 11 specific PCB issues raised by the bank? 12 A. I'm not sure I used that 13 exact wording, but that was the gist, I 14 believe, of the response, correct. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033227 15 Q. Okay. Getting back to Mr. 16 Hinds' concerns about the PCB results or 17 the PCB sample results, did he ever 18 express any concern to you about 19 potential health effects of the PCBs on 20 his property? 21 A. I recall a conversation which 22 -- and I don't know what the timing of 23 the conversation was, but there was a 0061 1 conversation between Mr. Hinds and myself 2 at which time Mr. Hinds asked me about 3 obtaining sampling -- it wasn't sampling 4 results, but having blood tested for 5 PCBs. 6 And I think at that time, I 7 indicated that we didn't do -- Monsanto 8 did not do testing for PCBs, but there 9 were several people I knew that were more 10 knowledgeable of blood testing and had 11 been involved in some of the blood 12 testing that I believed had been 13 conducted around that time in the 14 Anniston area. And I gave Mr. Hinds, I 15 believe, referrals to the two folks that 16 1 knew that were knowledgeable of that 17 kind of testing. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033228 18 Q. Did you ever tell him, Mr. 19 Hinds, not to worry about blood levels of 20 PCBs? 21 A. Oh, no. 22 Q. Okay. Why did you offer to 23 Mr. Hinds to have his property sampled, 0062 1 PCBs? 2 A. Primarily because there were 3 several of the other property owners that 4 I had talked with that requested that -- 5 or had a question, and the question was: 6 Did we sample PCBs on their property? 7 And in looking at the sampling that had 8 been done in the past, I really couldn't 9 tell whether the samples were 10 specifically collected on their property, 11 adjacent to their property, or what. And 12 so they requested or asked could we do 13 some additional sampling on their 14 property. 15 And as I recall, I think that 16 was the substance of my conversation with 17 Cecil, indicating or asking him would he 18 also like to have some sampling done 19 specifically on his property. 20 Q. So you were just having it HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033229 21 done already for some other property 22 owners, and you decided to offer that to 23 Cecil as well? 0063 1 A. I believe I offered that to 2 all the local commercial property owners. 3 Q. Okay. Do you know who paid 4 for the sampling? 5 A. In all cases, we did. 6 Q. I think the last conversation 7 that we were talking about as far as the 8 specific date was May 15th of'96 when 9 you hand-delivered this letter about the 10 PCB test results. 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. What was the next time that 13 you talked to the Hindses? 14 A. I believe the next time that 15 1 came to the shop and talked with Cecil 16 was in June of 1996, the next month, 17 about our proposal -- or I guess the 18 proposal that remediation management had 19 made to the city and the county -- I 20 guess to the city -- for vacating certain 21 streets and fencing property that we had 22 acquired on the east side of the plant. 23 I had a diagram or a small map, eight and HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033230 0064 1 a half by eleven, that I went around and 2 showed a number of the property owners, 3 including Mr. Hinds, what that 4 encompassed. 5 Q. This is a map that's part of 6 Plaintiffs Exhibit No. 3 -- wait. 7 That's not the real one. Where did that 8 go? Is that the map that you're 9 referring to (indicating)? 10 A. Yes, it is. 11 Q. Is that your handwriting at 12 the top? 13 A. Yes, it is. 14 Q. And I think we said earlier, 15 but I want to make sure. The Hindses 16 property is not anywhere -- it's not 17 shown on this map; is that right? 18 A. That's correct. Mr. Hinds' 19 property is to the north of 8th Street. 20 Q. Why did you decide to go 21 share this information with Mr. Hinds? 22 A. I think, again, it was our 23 intention and certainly my intention to 0065 1 keep the local property owners apprised 2 of what actions we were taking. And I HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033231 3 think that this was a proposal that then 4 we had to take forward to the city. I 5 think at that time all of this would have 6 been city property -- no, I'm not so 7 sure. I don't know whether it was city 8 or the county, to tell you the truth. 9 But this was a proposal that had to go 10 forth. 11 And so, again, I took this 12 around just to show people in the area 13 what we were planning on doing, just to 14 make sure that there was no confusion 15 about fencing and assuming streets and 16 this type of thing. 17 Q. Did you talk to Mr. Hinds 18 about anything else with respect to 19 remediation, besides just showing him 20 this proposed detention basin plan? 21 A. At that time, I don't believe 22 so. 23 Q. Well, have you ever talked to 0066 1 him about how it would look after it was 2 finished? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Was that in another 5 conversation? HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033232 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. Well, we'll get to 8 that in a minute, I guess. Do you 9 remember any response from Mr. Hinds when 10 you were discussing the detention basin 11 with him? 12 A. Well, I don't think I was 13 discussing at the time the detention 14 basin. I think it was really the fencing 15 and the streets that were being vacated. 16 Q. Okay. Well, do you remember 17 any response from Mr. Hinds about the 18 street vacation and the fencing? 19 A. No, I do not. I don't recall 20 Mr. Hinds being concerned or having a 21 problem with what we were proposing. 22 Q. Do you ever remember Mr. 23 Hinds discussing with you some concerns 0067 1 about security and vandalism because of 2 the properties that were being vacated 3 around his property? 4 A. Yeah, several times. 5 Q. Okay. What did he tell you 6 about his concerns about security issues? 7 A. The first time Cecil Hinds 8 mentioned that was probably around this HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033233 9 time frame that we're talking about now, 10 May, June, July, August of 1996. And 11 Cecil mentioned that he had a concern 12 with security in the rear of his 13 building. The first time he mentioned 14 that was before we had demolition of a 15 lot of the structures in that particular 16 area. And so he just noted that he 17 essentially had less security in the back 18 because of reduced presence of people or 19 occupants in other buildings. 20 Q. So at first, it wasn't the 21 destruction of the buildings. It was 22 just their abandonment and there not 23 being any people around? 0068 1 A. Correct. And as I recall, he 2 specifically mentioned -- I don't know 3 whether his name was Mr. Blair, but the 4 individual that lived on the other side 5 of Ferron toward the west, and I believe 6 that Mr. Blair also had a dog that was 7 kind of a, if you will, first alert. 8 Q. Anything else you can 9 remember about that particular 10 conversation where you were discussing 11 the street vacation and the fencing? HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033234 12 A. No. 13 Q. When was the next time you 14 talked to Mr. Hinds? 15 A. The next time was, I would 16 say, within a matter of several weeks. I 17 think it was in mid-1996 where Cecil 18 Hinds had contacted -- I think he 19 contacted the plant to indicate his 20 displeasure with an article that came out 21 in the Anniston Star regarding demolition 22 of a structure right next to his 23 property. And so I went over and talked 0069 1 with Mr. Hinds. And at that time, 2 apologized to him for any problems that 3 we may have caused him. 4 Q. Do you remember what his 5 concern was, what his problem was with 6 that article? 7 A. The concern was that, as I 8 understand, Mr. Hinds had received one or 9 more telephone calls registering 10 displeasure among several of the people 11 in the neighborhood over what was 12 reported by the paper in that article. 13 Q. Do you know what was reported 14 by the paper in that article? HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033235 15 A. I had read that article; and 16 to the best of my recall, the article 17 mentioned a Monsanto spokesman that had 18 made the statement that we had demolished 19 and paved an area at the request of -- I 20 don't know whether they mentioned Mr. 21 Hinds or said the owner of a local pawn 22 shop or whatever. 23 Q. And he was upset about that 0070 1 because it wasn't true -- well, strike 2 that. Why was he upset about that 3 article? 4 MR. NEWSOM: You mean what 5 did he say? Because he would know what 6 he stated. He wouldn't know how he felt 7 necessarily. 8 Q. What did Mr. Hinds tell you 9 about why he was upset about the article? 10 A. I think he told me that he 11 was upset about the article because he 12 didn't say that, and he did not 13 request -- if that was the word that was 14 used in the article, did not request that 15 we demolish and pave the area. 16 Q. Do you know why a Monsanto 17 spokesperson would have said that? HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033236 18 A. No, I do not. 19 Q. Okay. When was the next time 20 you remember talking with the Hindses? 21 A. There was a time -- and this 22 may have been the next time. In fact, I 23 believe we touched on that earlier. I 0071 1 went over and briefed Mr. Hinds, and I 2 believe also Ricky Hinds, on the status 3 of the east side remediation project, 4 construction of the detention basin, and 5 that type -- that activity. 6 And we had produced around 7 that time or had produced for us an 8 aerial photograph that would hopefully 9 accurately depict what that area would 10 look like once we completed the project. 11 And it was a good size photograph, three 12 foot by four foot or something of that 13 sort. And I used that in some 14 presentations or -- not in a formal way, 15 presentations to Mr. Hinds, along with 16 several of the other property owners in 17 the area to give them a sense of what the 18 area would look like once we completed 19 the east side remediation project. 20 Q. Did you talk to him or them, HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033237 21 both the Hindses, about any landscaping 22 or planting shrubs or anything like that 23 that would affect how the property was 0072 1 going to look when you were finished? 2 A. I don't recall that at that 3 particular time, the planting of shrubs. 4 I'm not sure. 5 Q. What were you going to do 6 that would make the area, the remediation 7 area look different than it looked at 8 that time? 9 A. Well, this is before we 10 demolished any structures in the area and 11 before we put in the drainage piping and 12 the berm areas and really were well 13 advanced into the construction area. So 14 it looked a great deal different. 15 Q. Do you remember Mr. Hinds 16 saying that when it was -- the project 17 was complete, it would look much better 18 than it did at that time? 19 A. As I recall, that was a 20 statement or an implication that Cecil 21 Hinds made. I recall Cecil Hinds 22 indicating that it would certainly look 23 different and look a lot better than what HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033238 0073 1 it did look like or what it looked like 2 in the past. 3 Q. Do you know what happened to 4 that big photo you were talking about? 5 A. To the best of my knowledge, 6 it's still at the Anniston remediation 7 trailer. 8 MS. BLOCK: That might be 9 something we would like to see. 10 MR. NEWSOM: I'll have to 111 mean, I'm not -- 12 MS. BLOCK: Just for the 13 record, I don't know if that's something 14 we've specifically asked for. I doubt 15 it, but that -- if it still exists and we 16 can find it, we would like -- 17 MR. NEWSOM: Without making 18 any commitment, because I'm not 19 personally familiar with it, we will 20 certainly make further inquiry and then 21 respond appropriately. 22 MS. BLOCK: Great. 23 MR. NEWSOM: Let me make a 0074 1 little note about it. 2 Q. (By Ms. Block) Okay. What HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033239 3 else? When else did you talk to the 4 Hindses? 5 A. And again, there were other 6 occasions, I'm sure, that I may have 7 stopped by and had some coffee on the way 8 to work or something of this sort. But 9 nothing substantive, as I recall, until 10 March of 1997 when, in preparation for 11 the structure demolition project, I went 12 by the pawn shop and briefed both, I 13 believe, Cecil and Ricky Hinds on our 14 proposed plans for demolishing structures 15 in and around the pawn shop -- or near 16 and around the pawn shop. 17 Q. Do you remember anything that 18 the Hindses said to you during that 19 conversation? 20 A. Oh, I think there were some 21 general questions on when were you 22 scheduled to begin, which specific 23 structures were we going to demolish, did 0075 1 I think there would be any problems 2 caused to Mr. Hinds' customers, or did we 3 have to close down any streets or 4 barricade any areas or things of this 5 sort. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033240 6 Q. Did you have to do any of 7 those things? 8 A. No, we did not. 9 Q. What was the next time you 10 saw the Hindses? 11 A. The next time would have been 12 on or around April 14th, 1997, because 13 that's when we physically started, 14 physically began the demolition of 15 structures in that area called Area A-l 16 or A-2, whichever area it was. And I'm 17 almost sure that I went over to the pawn 18 shop and talked with Cecil for a short 19 period of time and indicated that yes, we 20 were going to start our demolition 21 project. 22 Q. When was the next time you 23 talked to the Hindses? 0076 1 A. At the end of the demolition 2 project, on or around May 15th, the 3 middle part of May of 1997,1 do recall 4 accompanying our construction manager 5 George Enlow to meet Mr. Hinds and Ricky 6 Hinds. And at that particular meeting, 7 we inquired on whether -- if we were to 8 break water line connection to a building HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033241 9 to the southeast of the pawn shop, 10 whether that would affect the water 11 supply there at the pawn shop. 12 And Ricky Hinds checked on 13 that. How he did that, I'm not quite 14 sure, but indicated that no, he didn't 15 think there would be a problem. And so 16 we continued on with the completion of 17 the demolition project. 18 Q. What was the next time? 19 A. Either shortly -- or around 20 this time -- and I don't know whether it 21 was, you know, a week later or maybe a 22 week before that. I'm not quite sure. 23 But in and around this time, there was 0077 1 conversation that Cecil Hinds and I had 2 concerning the possibility of Mr. Hinds 3 installing a fence on the -- what used to 4 be called the Wright property right next 5 to the pawn shop. 6 Q. Was that Mr. Hinds' idea? 7 Did he want you to install the fence? 8 A. No. As I recall, Mr. Hinds 9 indicated that he would install the fence 10 if we would allow him to install what I 11 would call a security fence over there on HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033242 12 a portion of that paved area right west 13 of the pawn shop. 14 Q. Which was Monsanto's 15 property? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. What did you tell him? 18 A. I told him I would take that 19 forth to the remediation management group 20 and see what they decided. 21 Q. Did you, in fact, do that? 22 A. I, in fact, did that. 23 Q. And what was the result of 0078 1 that? 2 A. I took that back and talked 3 with Alan Faust. And as I understand, 4 Alan, I believe, talked with, I believe, 5 his boss. And I think the decision was 6 made that while Mr. Hinds could certainly 7 continue to use that paved area for 8 either off-site parking or parking of 9 vehicles, the decision was made that we 10 preferred that he not install any fencing 11 at that time. 12 Q. Do you know why? 13 A. No. 14 Q. They just told you Monsanto HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033243 15 doesn't want to do this right now? 16 A. Well, again, I think -- you 17 know, I just don't want to speculate. 18 There could be reasons. 19 Q. I understand. 20 A. But I think it was just 21 something that they preferred not to do. 22 Q. And you didn't ask why not? 23 A. I'm pretty sure they were not 0079 1 really interested at that time in 2 entering into any kind of a lease 3 arrangement or rental of property. That 4 was just -- that's not our business. It 5 certainly was not then. 6 Q. Did Mr. Hinds want to lease 7 or rent the property? 8 A. I'm not sure whether Mr. 9 Hinds specifically wanted to lease the 10 property, but I believe that if one were 11 to physically go in and install fencing 12 and whatever, I think that we felt that 13 you would probably have to have some type 14 of an arrangement, a lease, rental, or 15 something. 16 Q. You couldn't just grant him 17 permission to build a fence on your HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033244 18 property without leasing it to him? 19 A. Again, this is only -- I 20 don't know specifically. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. But it's not just -- 23 Q. I just want to know what you 0080 1 know. 2 A. Yes. The type of fence we're 3 talking about is a full-fledged security 4 fence. It's not just a real small fence. 5 Q. What was the next time you 6 remember talking to Mr. Hinds? 7 A. I know I had a conversation, 8 and I think it was in August of 1997, 9 where I think I talked with Mr. Hinds on 10 the telephone. He had contacted the 11 plant, either via letter or telephone 12 call or something of that sort, and there 13 were several things that were concerning 14 him, including, I think, something about 15 dust in the area clogging the air 16 conditioning system. And concern about 17 the underground storage tank at the 18 corner of Ferron and West 10th Street. 19 So I contacted Mr. Hinds, and 20 I think there were several issues that HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033245 21 were of concern. I indicated that I 22 would be in town the following week, and 23 I would like to drop by, and perhaps we 0081 1 could kind of go over and talk about each 2 one of them individually. 3 Q. And did you, in fact, drop 4 by ~ 5 A. Yes, I did -- 6 Q-- the next week? 7 A. -- the next week. And I'm 8 not sure exactly what that date was. But 9 as I recall, it would have been sometime 10 in -- I believe it was the latter part of 11 August of 1997. 12 Q. I'm going to show you the -- 13 there it is (indicating). The last page 14 of Plaintiffs Exhibit No. 3-- 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. -- which looks to be some 17 handwritten notes? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. Is that your handwriting? 20 A. Yes, it is. 21 Q. And there's a date of 8/26 or 22 27, '97 at the top? 23 A. Yes, it is. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033246 0082 1 Q. So would that be about 2 correct -- 3 A. I think that's true. 4 Q. -- as far as the time that 5 you stopped by -- 6 A. I think that's right. 7 Q. -- in late August? 8 A. I may have stopped by on both 9 days. I'm not sure when I stopped by the 10 first day whether Cecil Hinds was there 11 and whether only Ricky Hinds was there. 12 Q. But you talked to one -- at 13 least one of the Hinds, either Ricky or 14 Cecil? 15 A. I talked with both at some 16 point in time, I believe, over those 17 days. 18 Q. I would just like to go over 19 these notes with you. This first, I 20 guess, issue, does that say, No dust 21 suppression? 22 A. Uh-huh (positive response). 23 Q. What was that -- what were 0083 1 those notes taken of? 2 A. Well, again, that was the HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033247 3 issues that either Ricky or Cecil 4 communicated to me. And the first issue 5 that they brought up was dust 6 suppression; that is, a lack of dust 7 suppression and that the air conditioning 8 system, the filters or coils were 9 clogged, and that they felt that it was 10 due to dust generated from some of the 11 truck traffic going back and forth along 12 West 10th Street, I believe hauling fill 13 dirt over to the construction that was 14 ongoing on the other side of Crawford 15 Avenue. 16 Q. What was the construction on 17 the other side of Crawford Avenue? 18 A. That was -- the drainage 19 pipes would drain all of the water on the 20 east side to a junction, a large junction 21 box directly south of West 10th Street. 22 And on top of the piping system, you had 23 a berm, a large berm area. So there was 0084 1 a lot of fill dirt that was being brought 2 in for that cap and cover on the east 3 side. 4 Q. Did you do anything about 5 this dust complaint? HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033248 6 A. Well, that was -- I think 7 there was -- we were trying to determine, 8 you know, what dust were we talking 9 about, and I think that that was one of 10 the issues, some of the truck traffic 11 right in front of the shop, and then I 12 think also Mr. Hinds talked about 13 sometime -- and I wasn't sure when it 14 occurred, but evidently I had written 15 down a notation, Concrete slab -- that 16 should be slab and not slag -- concrete 17 slab across the site -- across the 18 street, no dust suppression. This was 19 evidently a time when they were breaking 20 up a concrete slab over there and 21 generating some dust. 22 Q. Do you remember either of the 23 Hindses complaining about dust from any 0085 1 of the destruction of the adjacent 2 properties, structures? 3 A. From the standpoint of the 4 demolition that started on, I think, 5 again, April 14th? 6 Q. Yes. 7 A. No. 8 Q. With respect to this HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033249 9 complaint about dust that we're talking 10 about right now, what, if anything, did 11 you do about this complaint? 12 A. Well, I went back to the 13 remediation management group and 14 communicated the concern to Alan Faust. 15 1 think he then in turn talked with the 16 construction manager, whoever that was at 17 that particular point in time. And as a 18 result, I think there was a water truck 19 they used or something trying to wet the 20 streets out there, not only at West 10th 21 Street, but West 10th Street and 22 Clydesdale. 23 Q. So did they start using the 0086 1 water truck after these complaints were 2 made, or is that something that -- I'm 3 sorry. I'm just a little confused about 4 why the water truck was being used or 5 when it was being used? 6 A. Well, they may have been 7 using a water truck prior to this time. 8 But I think that Mr. Hinds felt that any 9 suppression that was being done out there 10 was not enough, and still there was dust 11 generated from those trucks or from the HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033250 12 general traffic out there on West 10th 13 Street in front of his building. 14 Q. Do you know if any of the 15 dust suppression measures were stepped up 16 or done more frequently after the Hindses 17 complained about this? 18 A. Well, if s my understanding 19 that they had water trucks that would 20 more frequently drive that stretch of the 21 road. 22 Q. Okay. This next issue that 23 are on your notes, I think it says, 0087 1 Service station thirty years ago. Tell 2 me what that's about. 3 A. That was an issue that I 4 think that when I talked with -- I think 5 when I talked with Ricky -- you'll see 6 there's kind of a numbering system, and 7 then there's another numbering system? 8 Q. Yes. 9 A. I think when I talked with 10 Cecil, that happened to kind of come up 11 as a fifth issue. But nonetheless, Mr. 12 Hinds felt that there was an underground 13 storage tank or probably two tanks right 14 at the corner of 10th Street and Ferron. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033251 15 Evidently some -- and I put 16 down here thirty years ago, that there 17 was a service station there. And that 18 there was perhaps two tanks there, and 19 the concern was underground leakage of 20 those storage tanks. 21 Q. Was that service station 22 property that Monsanto owned at that 23 time? 0088 1 A. This was property that was 2 subsequently purchased by Monsanto, but 3 only within the last year. And so when 4 we purchased the property, no, there was 5 no service station or anything there. 6 Q. Okay. But the property -- at 7 the time that the Hindses were expressing 8 this concern about the underground 9 storage tanks to you in August of '97, 10 Monsanto did not own the property at that 11 time? 12 A. We did own the property at 13 that time. 14 Q. Oh, you did own the property? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. Okay. And I think that Mr. 17 Faust testified earlier that Monsanto had HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033252 18 never discovered any underground storage 19 tanks on that property? 20 A. Well, I think that's correct. 21 Q. You don't have any reason to 22 disagree with that? 23 A. No. I took the issue back to 0089 1 the remediation management group, and I 2 do know that while we were out there in 3 that area doing the demolition project, 4 we certainly didn't sense there was an 5 issue of underground storage tanks. 6 Q. How would you sense there 7 being an underground storage tank 8 somewhere? 9 A. I would assume there would 10 have to be some vent and some odors of 11 some sort that smelled like petroleum 12 products. 13 Q. Do you know what, if 14 anything, Monsanto did to try and 15 determine whether there might be 16 underground storage tanks? 17 A. No, I do not. 18 Q. Okay. Let's see. Issue No. 19 3, security in back. It looks like a 20 diagram here? HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033253 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. Why don't you just explain 23 that to me a little bit? Part of it I 0090 1 can't read the writing very well. 2 A. Okay. Well, that's true. 3 This is not a real good copy. 4 Q. No, it's not. 5 A. Mr. Hinds indicated that one 6 of the concerns -- and this was a concern 7 that he had voiced previously -- was 8 security in the back. And I think in our 9 discussion, he had indicated that he had 10 a quote on a security TV for the back 11 area. He talked generally about it, and 12 then I said that I would -- once we 13 completed our discussion, I would kind of 14 tour the back area with Ricky and kind of 15 have a look-see. Based on that look-see, 16 1 kind of drew this little diagram. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. And I'm not a security 19 expert, by the way, but the things that 20 were kind of apparent to me -- and I did 21 tell Ricky that I would kind of give him 22 some feedback on first impressions. And 23 this was kind of several items that I HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033254 0091 1 just kind of brought to their attention, 2 that if one were looking at security, 3 this might be some things to consider. 4 Q. Did you express or forward 5 this security concern to the -- to 6 anybody else at Monsanto? 7 A. All of these various issues, 8 yes, I -- in general any time any issues 9 or concerns were voiced to me, I would 10 typically report back to the remediation 11 management group, Mr. Faust. 12 Q. Do you know if the 13 remediation management group did anything 14 about this particular concern, the 15 security concern? 16 A. No, I'm not. 17 Q. I don't see on here -- and 18 maybe it's here and I'm just not seeing 19 it -- any indication that the absence of 20 any residences or any commercial property 21 being occupied around the Hinds property 22 would have been a security concern that 23 you noted. 0092 1 A. At this time, I think the 2 reason I wouldn't have noted that is HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033255 3 because if you would have had occupants 4 in this area at that time, it was my 5 opinion they couldn't possibly have seen 6 the rear of that building. No one can 7 see the rear of the building, because I 8 think you'll see where I had it written 9 as best I could describe it, jungle, 10 right around the fence. 11 Q. I do see that. 12 A. And so you really couldn't 13 see back there. 14 Q. Do you think the presence of 15 people around in the area, whether or not 16 they can actually see a potential 17 break-in, would deter anybody from 18 breaking into property? 19 MR. NEWSOM: Object. It 20 calls for speculation. You may answer if 21 you understand. 22 A. In the -- you know, you can 23 have security concerns during the day or 0093 1 during the night. Clearly during the 2 day, if someone were to be in the rear of 3 this property and get in the rear of 4 that, then no one would see them. 5 Now, if you have people -- HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033256 6 and it's always my impression in many, 7 many visits to Anniston, that there was 8 always traffic along West 10th Street. 9 And I just -- also you had a fairly wide 10 open area. You have a wide open area on 11 one side. On another side, you had a 12 very active car wash that continues to 13 get a fair amount of traffic. And so I'm 14 not so sure what additional folks would 15 have added to the picture. 16 At night, you still would 17 have had the issue of -- that perhaps it 18 could have been a bit easier coming from 19 the rear, but no more so now than in the 20 past, because that property has not 21 changed at all. 22 Q. I thought you said earlier 23 that there was, I believe, a Mr. -- I 0094 1 can't remember. Was it Mr. Blair that 2 had a dog? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. Where was that property on 5 your map? 6 A. That would have been over 7 towards the west on the other side of 8 Ferron. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033257 9 Also, when Mr. Hinds voiced 10 the security issue and talked about that, 11 there was a property, the Wright property 12 was standing right adjacent to the pawn 13 shop. At this time, in August of 1997, 14 that house was gone. You had a paved 15 area, and you had flood lights all over 16 that parking lot, and you had what I 17 described as a jungle around the fencing. 18 Q. Let's see. Issue No. 4. I 19 believe that's business in decline? 20 A. That's the way I termed it, 21 with a question. 22 Q. Why don't you just tell me 23 what that issue was about? What was Mr. 0095 1 Hinds' concern there? 2 A. I think that Mr. Cecil Hinds 3 and Mr. Ricky Hinds had done some type of 4 business analysis, economic analysis, 5 profit analysis or whatever, maybe an 6 income analysis of their business, as I 7 recall, year-to-date 1997 versus 1996. 8 And according to them, they indicated to 9 me that a primary method that they used 10 was the interest on loans to the various 11 customers. That was how they made their HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033258 12 money. And that based on their analysis, 13 they thought that their business had 14 declined some fifteen to twenty percent 15 this year versus, I believe, 1996. And I 16 say, implies it is due to Monsanto's 17 buyout and area activity. Whether they 18 used those specific words, I don't know. 19 But that was the implication. 20 Q. Okay. And then this No. 5, 21 storm water washes over his property in 22 heavy rain, I think it says? 23 A. Correct. 0096 1 Q. What was -- just elaborate on 2 that concern for me. 3 A. The concern here was that 4 during heavy rainfall events, when you 5 really get a lot of rain in a short 6 period of time, that Mr. Hinds got storm 7 water flow right out in front of his 8 building where you kind of come in the 9 entrance to the building, and the storm 10 water would have been coming down and 11 West 10th Street from Clydesdale and 12 across Ferron Avenue and from -- off the 13 paved area, which was next door. 14 Q. Did he ever express any HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] 15 concern to you about the water actually 16 coming into the building? 17 A. I don't believe so. I think 18 that his concern was primarily, from what 19 1 recall, concern for his customers, 20 because they had to slosh through water 21 entering and exiting the building during 22 heavy rainfall events. 23 Q. I believe you said you 0097 1 stopped by the pawn shop on several 2 occasions, maybe had a cup of coffee. Do 3 you ever remember stopping by when there 4 was a heavy rain? 5 A. There was one time that I 6 did. It seemed like it was in a fairly 7 heavy rain, and there was considerable 8 water running right out in front of the 9 pawn shop. 10 Q. I'm going to show you some 11 photographs that's Plaintiffs Exhibit 12 No. 4, if you would just look at them for 13 a minute, and I'll ask you some 14 questions. 15 A. (Witness reviews 16 photographs.) Okay. 17 Q. Do you recognize any of those HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033260 18 pictures? 19 A. No. You mean recognize 20 them -- 21 Q. Do you recognize anything 22 that's depicted in those photographs? 23 A. Well, I know the approximate 0098 1 location of some of the pictures, what 2 those pictures display. 3 Q. What do those pictures 4 display? If you want to -- 5 A. No. 486 displays the front of 6 Cecil Hinds' pawn shop, it appears, 7 looking west from the front door. 8 No. 414 appears to be a shot 9 taken from the entrance of the 10th 10 Street pawn shop, again looking west. 11 The same description for No. 415. 12 The other ones really don't 13 give me enough detail to definitively say 14 where those were located. 15 Q. Did you see any standing 16 water in these photographs? 17 A. I saw what appeared-- 18 MR. NEWSOM: If you know. 19 A. I saw what appeared to be 20 some running water. I don't know whether HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033261 211 saw any standing water. 22 Q. Okay. Do you know when these 23 pictures were taken, approximately? 0099 1 A. It appeared to me, based on 2 the pictures that I just mentioned, those 3 were taken prior to the demolition 4 project that started in April 1997 and 5 post-July 1996, because I think that was 6 in and around the time that we had taken 7 down the Wright house that was next to 8 Cecil Hinds and put in the paved parking 9 area. I believe that showed the paved 10 parking area. 11 Q. Do you know whether the 12 demolition of the Wright house and the 13 other structures that you said were in 14 the -- I believe it was the '96 15 demolition project or time frame -- 16 A. I think we demolished the 17 Wright structure in 1996. Most of the 18 structures in that area were demolished 19 April and May, 1997. I think that's 20 correct. 21 Q. Okay. Do you know whether 22 the destruction of the -- or demolition 23 of the Wright house would have any effect HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033262 0100 1 on the storm water or the running water 2 that came across the pawn shop property 3 during a rain event? 4 A. No. That's not my area of 5 expertise. 6 Q. You did say you had been to 7 the pawn shop during a rain storm? 8 A. I had been. 9 Q. Okay. But only once? 10 A. One time that I recall. And 11 this was after Cecil Hinds brought it to 12 my attention, and I don't know whether it 13 was some days later or whatever, but I 14 made a point of saying, Well, the next 15 time we really get heavy rains, I want to 16 go by and see what he's talking about, 17 which I did. 18 Q. And that was in 1997, right? 19 A. I think so. 20 Q. So that would have been after 21 the Wright house was demolished? 22 A. Correct, correct. 23 0101 1 2 (Whereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit No. 22 was marked HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033263 3 for identification.) 4 5 Q. Okay. Great. Real quick, 6 I'm going to go back to the dogs for a 7 minute. I'm going to show you -- 8 A. Going back to what? 9 Q. The dogs or the dog that 10 belonged to -- I forget, Mr. whoever. 11 I'm going to show you what's been marked 12 as Plaintiffs Exhibit No. 22 and ask you 13 if you can recognize what's depicted in 14 that photograph? 15 A. I think I do. 16 Q. Okay. What do you think it 17 is? 18 A. This looks like the Hindses' 19 pawn shop on the left side of this 20 picture; and on the right side, that 21 appears to be the Wright house, and on 22 West 10th Street. 23 Q. Okay. Great. Thank you. 0102 1 2 3 4 5 (Whereupon, Plaintiffs Exhibit No. 23 was marked for identification.) HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033264 6 Q. And now I'm going to show you 7 what's been marked Plaintiffs Exhibit 23 8 and ask you if you can recognize what's 9 in that picture? 10 A. This looks like the property 11 where the Wright house used to stand 12 after the Wright house was taken down. 13 Q. And sometime after that, was 14 it paved over? Sometime after that 15 photograph? 16 A. That's correct. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. May of 1996. Okay. 19 Q. Thank you. The last thing on 20 your notes from August 26th and 27th, 21 '97. I believe there's a No. 6 over in 22 the margin that I just can't read-- 23 wait, long-term viability of business? 0103 1 A. If you want, I'll read it for 2 you, and that would help, perhaps. 3 Q. Yes, that would help. Thank 4 you. 5 A. Yes. That says -- and it's a 6 question, long-term viability of business 7 in the area given the Monsanto activity 8 and activity-cleanup. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033265 9 Q. Was that a concern that Mr. 10 Hinds, either Ricky or Cecil, expressed 11 to you? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. And is that --well, you said 14 that you forwarded all these concerns to 15 the Monsanto remediation group? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. And that would include this 18 long-term viability of the business 19 concern? 20 A. Yes. And I believe that Mr. 21 Hinds -- even prior to me discussing 22 these issues with him and drafting this 23 list, I think that, as I recall, he had 0104 1 voiced concerns on several of these 2 directly to the plant; and whether it was 3 to Mr. Faust, I don't know. 4 Q. Okay. The times that you 5 stopped by the pawn shop to talk to the 6 Hindses, did you ever see customers come 7 in while you were there? 8 A. I think there were very few 9 times where I did not go by the pawn shop 10 where I did not see customers. 11 Q. Did you recognize any of HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033266 12 them? 13 A. No. Most of the people 14 around the area, I didn't know anyway. 15 Q. Right. Any idea where they 16 might have--where the Hindses' 17 customers come from? 18 A. No, but I certainly expect 19 if s in the west Anniston area. 20 Q. What, if anything, did 21 Monsanto do to resolve the PCB 22 contamination that was found on the Hinds 23 property? 0105 1 A. Well, it's my understanding 2 that in taking down the Wright house and 3 preparing that area for paving and paving 4 that area, it's my understanding that 5 pretty well resolved the issue of PCBs in 6 that particular area. 7 Q. So did you actually pave on 8 the Hinds property? 9 A. I think we paved, and I think 10 it's shown on several of your pictures 11 where we paved up to the Hinds building, 12 the pawn shop itself. 13 Q. This is Plaintiff s Exhibit 14 No. 6, which is a letter to Melissa HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033267 15 Craven at Colonial Bank. 16 A. I recall seeing this at some 17 time in the past. 18 Q. Did you have anything to do 19 with writing that letter? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Okay. But you've seen it 22 before? 23 A. I am almost sure I've seen 0106 1 this before. 2 Q. In the bottom photograph, the 3 letter mentions something about having 4 paved over the west -- I think it's the 5 west. Where is my extra copy? 6 A. The west yard area of the 7 West 10th Street pawn shop. 8 Q. That's right. So did 9 Monsanto then, in fact, put asphalt down 10 on parts of the pawn shop property? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. Not only on thatarea, but up 14 to the -- all along thewest side, all 15 the way back to the fence, I believe. I 16 think it went all the way back to the 17 fence. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033268 18 Q. Do you know if the asphalt 19 was placed over both of the areas where 20 PCBs were found at levels above five 21 PPMs? 22 A. Oh, yes. 23 Q. Okay. 0107 1 A. Those areas was -- it was a 2 relatively localized area, and this turf 3 area was five foot wide, a fairly small 4 area. In fact, you showed me a picture 5 of it a while ago. 6 Q. Did Monsanto sample the soil 7 on the Wright house next door to the 8 Hinds property? 9 A. I believe we did. 10 Q. Do you remember what the 11 results were? 12 A. I think, using the screening, 13 it was nondetected, based on the 14 screening that had been used at that 15 time, the sampling procedure, and I think 16 the sampling took place in 1995 sometime. 17 Q. So why did you want to buy 18 their house if there weren't detectable 19 PCBs on their property? 20 A. I don't know. That was part HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033269 21 of, again, the purchase property program 22 that was, at that time, already 23 implemented for most of that area by the 0108 1 time I even came on site. 2 Q. How about the Miller property 3 that was across the street from the pawn 4 shop property, did you test that property 5 for PCBs? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And I believe you said that 8 in some places on that property it was -- 9 PCBs were as high as a hundred PPMs? 10 A. I don't know whether I said 11 that or not. 12 Q. If -- would you have any 13 reason to disagree with the fact -- with 14 that, if Mr. Faust said that? 15 A. On which part of the Miller 16 property? I guess we typically think of 17 it in terms of two sections. It was all 18 part of the same tax parcel, but there 19 was the eastern two-thirds and the 20 western one-third. 21 The eastern two-thirds of 22 that property included the ditch that 23 drained the east side of the Monsanto HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033270 0109 1 property. And in that ditch and along on 2 each side of that ditch, I think there 3 were some levels at -- in certain cases, 4 above one hundred PPM. 5 Q. But you also bought the 6 eastern one-third of the property as 7 well, right? 8 A. We -- at some time after that 9 initial purchase, yes, in discussions 10 with Jeff Miller; and also one of the 11 other Millers, Mrs. Miller's daughter, we 12 did purchase that other one-third. 13 Q. The PCBs weren't as high on 14 that eastern one-third of the property 15 that was away from the ditch? 16 A. At that time, based on the 17 sampling we had done, I think the highest 18 level that we saw on that property was 19 less than fifteen PPM. 20 Q. Did Cecil or Richard Hinds 21 ever approach you about purchasing their 22 property? 23 A. No. 0110 1 Q. Did you ever talk to them 2 about purchasing their property? HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033271 3 A. No. Is this a good time for 4 maybe a five-minute break? 5 Q. Sure. 6 7 (Whereupon, a brief recess 8 was taken.) 9 10 Q. You said before that Mr. 11 Hinds had expressed some concern about 12 not being able to get a loan? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. What, if anything, did you do 15 about that particular concern? Did you 16 tell anybody else at Monsanto about it? 17 A. I think when Mr. Hinds voiced 18 that concern, he voiced that to both Alan 19 Faust and myself. 20 Q. Oh, okay. 21 A. I believe that's correct. 22 And I think that Alan Faust then took 23 that issue, if you will. 0111 1 Q. And he, I believe, wrote a 2 letter to Melissa Craven at Colonial 3 Bank. That letter has already been 4 marked as Plaintiffs Exhibit 6, and 5 we've looked at that before. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033272 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. Do you know why this letter 8 does not include the nine point one -- or 9 excuse me, the nine point nine PPM PCB 10 level that was actually found on the 11 property? 12 MR. NEWSOM: Well, let me 13 just object to the extent that while it's 14 true that's not set forth, the letter 15 does note that there were two detections, 16 and only one of those is specifically 17 listed. 18 Q. Well, do you know why the 19 nine point nine wasn't specifically 20 listed? 21 A. No, I do not. I recall 22 looking at this, and I'm not sure when I 23 noted that. But to me when I read that, 0112 1 the PCBs at levels of six point one PPM, 2 it looked like a typo. It looked like 3 there was some information that just 4 didn't make it in the final copy. 5 Q. Okay. Can you think of 6 anything else, any other conversation 7 that you had with Cecil or Ricky Hinds 8 that we haven't talked about? HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033273 9 MR. NEWSOM: And of course, I 10 would say here we've responded to 11 interrogatories, and he's discussed them 12 at length today. I'm not sure he's 13 compared the interrogatory responses to 14 his deposition to know whether there's 15 anything additional there. But if s not 16 a memory quiz. But anything else you can 17 recall. 18 THE WITNESS: No. I realize 19 that. 20 A. In the context of a number of 21 the issues that Mr. Hinds -- well, both 22 Cecil and Ricky had brought to my 23 attention, I think I indicated from the 0113 1 standpoint of the storm water flow or the 2 flooding out in front of his building or 3 the running water, that I would talk with 4 one of our hydrologists and kind of get 5 his impression or feedback on water flow 6 and where the water might be coming from 7 and what kind of actions might be taken 8 to resolve that. 9 And so sometime after that 10 concern was voiced to me, I believe that 11 Tom Francis, a hydrologist that worked HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033274 12 for Golder Associates on contract to 13 Solutia or Monsanto at the time, Tom 14 Francis and I had gone over to the pawn 15 shop, and I think I had introduced Mr. 16 Hinds to Tom Francis or Ricky Hinds to 17 Tom Francis. I believe that was the 18 case. But I know that he and I had gone 19 over and looked at that situation. 20 Unfortunately, this was not 21 during a high storm water event. You 22 just can't make it rain. And so I just 23 wanted to take Tom over there and just 0114 1 kind of show him, I think, what, perhaps, 2 I had observed. 3 And I talked subsequently 4 with Tom and then also with another one 5 of the engineers, Richard Williams, who 6 also, at one time, used to work for 7 Golder; he's now an independent 8 consultant, on what we might be able to 9 do. And I don't know whether, based on 10 that, there was anything quick and -- 11 there was any easy or quick solutions. 12 There was just a couple of ideas that we 13 were kind of bouncing around. 14 And I think that -- shortly HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033275 15 thereafter, I think I talked with Ricky, 16 and it may have been Cecil, on some 17 options that we were kind of considering, 18 but nothing that would be short-term 19 stop-gap type of situations, because we 20 still weren't quite sure where the flow 21 was coming from. For example, was the 22 major part of that flow coming from down 23 West 10th Street? Well, if it is, 0115 1 there's not much you can do about that, 2 other than getting the city involved in 3 constructing new infrastructure to do 4 something with the water. 5 Q. Did they ever determine or do 6 any studies to determine whether the 7 demolition of the properties around the 8 pawn shop had any effect on the storm 9 water? 10 A. No, not to my knowledge. And 11 of course, at that time, I think we had 12 already demolished all the structures, so 13 1 don't know how one would go about doing 14 that. 15 Q. Sure. You never asked them 16 if that could have any effect or could 17 have had any effect on the amount of HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033276 18 storm water that was coming on to the 19 pawn shop property? 20 A. I think the only thing I 21 recall in any discussions at all is prior 22 to 1996, you had a house next door, and 23 now you had a paved area. So what does 0116 1 that do? And that, you know, certainly 2 sheets water in the direction of flow, 3 and I know we -- when I say we, I think 4 Richard Williams and I said, Well, is 5 there any way you could install a curb or 6 something of that sort? But we decided, 7 well, that would kind of destroy the use 8 of the property. So we weren't quite 9 sure. 10 Q. How would it destroy the use 11 of the -- I'm sorry. Installing a curb 12 would destroy the use of what property? 13 A. Well, maybe not destroy the 14 use, but reduce the utility of the 15 property, because where would you put the 16 curb? And if you had any kind of a curb, 17 would you not, in fact, build up and have 18 a lake. 19 Q. But you didn't discuss 20 specifically whether the loss of the HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033277 21 Wright house or the demolition of other 22 structures around the pawn shop had any 23 effect on the storm water flow? 0117 1 A. No, no. 2 Q. Okay. Have you been to any 3 community meetings in the Anniston 4 community? 5 A. No, I don't believe so. 6 Community, other than just one-on-one 7 discussions with people in the 8 neighborhood? I mean, an organized 9 meeting or something of this sort? 10 Q. Right, that's what I'm 11 talking about. 12 A. No. 13 Q. For example, the meetings -- 14 1 know there were some at the Bethel 15 church and the Mars Hill church? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Okay. You mentioned earlier 18 that one of your responsibilities at 19 Monsanto was involvement in the cleaning 20 of some properties? 21 A. Correct, specifically the 22 cleaning of some of the homes. 23 Q. Okay. So this would be HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033278 0118 1 cleaning of the inside of residential 2 properties? 3 A. Correct. 4 5 (Whereupon, Plaintiffs 6 Exhibit No. 21 was marked 7 for identification.) 8 9 Q. This is Plaintiffs Exhibit 10 21. I'll just ask you if you recognize 11 that document. 12 A. Yes, I do. 13 Q. And what is that? 14 A. The first sheet is a 15 permission form signed by Ms. Helen Clegg 16 giving access to Monsanto and Monsanto's 17 contractor at the time, Westinghouse 18 Remediation Services, access to the 19 property for the purposes of cleaning the 20 property. 21 The second sheet is a listing 22 of guidelines on how that cleaning would 23 be performed. 0119 1 The third sheet is a list of 2 personal property of Helen Clegg that was HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033279 3 stolen from her house in a break-in. I'm 4 not sure when that break-in occurred. 5 Q. That wasn't a break-in that 6--1 mean, that wasn't anything to do 7 with the cleaning process, that stolen 8 property? 9 A. No. In fact, at that time, 10 there was two break-ins, one of her 11 property and a house two doors down from 12 where she lived. 13 Q. Why was that attached to the 14 cleaning access or cleaning -- yeah, the 15 cleaning access permission document; do 16 you know? 17 A. It was not originally. It's 18 a separate document. They stand alone. 19 Q. Why would -- can I see that 20 again for a second? 21 A. (Witness hands document to 22 counsel.) 23 Q. Does that say at the bottom 0120 1 that it was prepared by Bruce Eley at the 2 Monsanto Company? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Why would you have prepared 5 that document? HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033280 6 A. That was prepared so that I 7 could use that in terms of a 8 itemization. I mean, this break-in 9 occurred after Monsanto and Westinghouse 10 had cleaned their house and prior to Ms. 11 Clegg coming back into the residence. 12 Q. Okay. Was this itemized list 13 of stolen personal property something 14 that you used to reimburse Ms. Clegg? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. Now, the top page, the 17 cleaning access permission, and then the 18 second page, the guidelines, was that 19 something that was used -- a form that 20 was used for all the residential 21 properties that you cleaned? 22 A. This was used for all the 23 residential properties that were cleaned, 0121 1 as highlighted, under consent agreement 2 with the Alabama Department of 3 Environmental Management. 4 Q. You answered my next 5 question, which was: Why did you go and 6 clean these people's properties? 7 A. That's -- 8 Q. Is that the answer? HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033281 9 A. It was under the consent -- 10 and I don't know whether it was a consent 11 order, consent agreement. But as I 12 understand it, it was a consent order 13 with the Alabama Department of 14 Environmental Management. 15 Q. Do you know if the houses 16 that were cleaned had been tested for 17 PCBs? 18 A. If s my understanding that a 19 number of these houses had been tested 20 from the standpoint of collection of dust 21 or dirt on rugs or inside the house, and 22 that soil samples had been taken in the 23 front and rear yards. 0122 1 Q. I believe you just said that 2 some of the properties had been tested? 3 A. Some of the properties had 4 been tested. 5 Q. But not all of them? 6 A. I believe that's correct. 7 Q. Do you know how it was 8 decided which properties they were going 9 to clean? 10 A. I think that was specified in 11 the consent order. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033282 12 Q. Okay. Was a consent order 13 something that Monsanto and -- was it 14 ADEM or ADPH? 15 A. ADEM, A-D-E-M, yeah. 16 Q. Was that something that 17 Monsanto and ADEM came up with together, 18 or was that something that ADEM dictated 19 to Monsanto? 20 A. That, I don't know. 21 Q. Okay. What did you do or 22 what did Monsanto do as far as cleaning 23 these people's property? 0123 1 A. The first thing we did is we 2 discussed this issue with Westinghouse 3 Remediation Services and asked them what 4 would be the appropriate way to go about 5 cleaning house, furniture, those types of 6 items. 7 Q. Cleaning house furniture of 8 PCBs? 9 A. For any kind of dust, dirt, 10 or anything, because the dirt, the dust, 11 if you had -- if PCBs was an issue, we 12 felt that more likely than not that it 13 would be a part of any dust or dirt that 14 would be tracked into the house. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033283 15 Q. Okay. So cleaning furniture 16 of dust that might contain PCBs? 17 A. Correct, or dirt. 18 Q. Sure. Soil particles? 19 A. Yes, or anything that you 20 might track into a house. They had had 21 experience. 22 Q. Westinghouse? 23 A. Westinghouse Remediation 0124 1 Services. I mean, that's what they do, 2 maybe not specifically cleaning houses, 3 but that's part of their experience. And 4 so they put together a set of guidelines 5 that they felt were appropriate on how to 6 proceed, and I think we pretty well 7 accepted those guidelines. I believe 8 that these guidelines were communicated 9 to ADEM, but I'm not positive of that. 10 Q. So is it your testimony that 11 those guidelines on Page 2 of Plaintiff s 12 Exhibit 6,1 think it is, were followed 13 when the individual properties were 14 cleaned? 15 A. When the individual 16 properties were cleaned, yes. 17 Q. So all those things that were HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033284 18 on that list of guidelines were actually 19 done to the properties? 20 A. Absolutely. 21 Q. Okay. I'm just trying to 22 avoid having to read every one of them 23 out loud. Why did y'all do that for the 0125 1 residential property? Was it just 2 because that was what was in the consent 3 order? 4 A. To the best of my 5 understanding, that's why that was done, 6 because that was what was directed by the 7 consent order. 8 Q. Do you know why there wasn't 9 any cleaning done of the Hinds property? 10 A. No, I do not. 11 Q. Do you know if there was any 12 cleaning done of any commercial property? 13 A. Not to my knowledge. 14 Q. Do you know why not? 15 A. No, I do not. 16 Q. One of the things on here 17 under the cleaning guidelines is that 18 carpets will be vacuumed, and that hard 19 surface floors will be damp mopped. 20 Don't commercial properties have -- HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033285 21 sometimes have carpets or hard surface 22 floors that could collect dust? 23 A. Yes, I guess there are some 0126 1 commercial establishments that do have 2 carpeting and hard surface flooring, and 3 there are a number of them in the area 4 that were commercial industrial that did 5 not. 6 Q. What other kind of floor 7 would there be besides a hard surface 8 floor or carpet? 9 A. Well, I think that was -- was 10 that hard surface or -- 11 Q. It says hard -- 12 A. In a number of cases, there 13 was packed gravel, packed dirt, concrete 14 slab, asphalt. 15 Q. Okay. When Monsanto tested 16 the Hinds property for PCBs, did they 17 test inside the building? 18 MR. NEWSOM: Which occasion? 19 Which occasion? Haven't there been two? 20 MS. BLOCK: I thought there 21 was only one occasion when Monsanto 22 tested and took five samples. Well, let 23 me just -- HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033286 0127 1 MR. NEWSOM: I think you're 2 referencing the '95, '96 testing. I 3 think there was some done very recently 4 when y'all had some done on the Hinds 5 property. 6 MS. BLOCK: But that wasn't 7 Monsanto. 8 MR. NEWSOM: No. I think, 9 though, we did a few samples at or about 10 that time, too. So recently,'99. 11 MS. BLOCK: Okay. 12 MR. NEWSOM: So that's why 13 I'm trying to get us focused on which one 14 we're talking about. 15 MS. BLOCK: Good. That's 16 good. 17 Q. (By Ms. Block) Well, in '95 18 or '96 when you were involved in the 19 testing, when you went to the Hinds 20 property that day with the soil sample 21 testing team -- 22 MR. NEWSOM: April'96. 23 Q. -- April '96, did you test 0128 1 inside the Hinds property? 2 A. No. We were soil sampling in HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033287 3 turf areas where you would have access to 4 soil. 5 Q. So you didn't do any surface 6 sampling or wipe sampling on the inside 7 of the building itself? 8 A. No. In fact, this particular 9 sampling team, the protocol that we were 10 following and followed after that was 11 focused on soil sampling. 12 Q. Why was that? 13 A. There was a specific protocol 14 for sampling, sampling soil. It is a 15 part of the consent order that required 16 Monsanto to do an extensive off-site 17 sampling in four different areas, and 18 they were quite large areas. And as a 19 part of that, it specified the sampling 20 procedure and pretty much how those 21 samples were to be collected and what the 22 procedure was. 23 Q. But there was some sampling 0129 1 done of dust inside residential 2 dwellings? 3 A. That was done by, I believe 4 ADEM, A-D-E-M, in conjunction with EPA. 5 Q. Was that part of the consent HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033288 6 order, also? 7 A. Well, the consent order was 8 Solutia will do -- or Monsanto will do 9 such and such and such. 10 Q. So the testing of the inside 11 of residential dwellings was before the 12 consent order? 13 A. I'm not sure when that 14 occurred, but that was done by ADEM and, 15 1 believe, EPA. I'm not sure. But it 16 was done by ADEM. 17 Q. But Monsanto didn't test for 18 PCBs inside any residential dwellings? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Okay. Do you know what the 21 levels of PCBs that ADEM found inside 22 some residential dwellings were? 23 A. I've reviewed those results. 0130 1 It's been, I think, over a year. The 2 only thing I recall, quite frankly, is it 3 was extremely variable, and I'm not even 4 sure what the units were. By units, I 5 mean how that data was reported. 6 Q. Right. 7 A. Whether it was so many 8 micrograms per square meter or what. I HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033289 9 really don't know. 10 Q. Would you agree that PCBs can 11 migrate through or be found in dust? 12 A. I would agree with it can be 13 found in dust. I don't know about 14 migrate through dust. I'm not familiar 15 with that term of art. 16 Q. But you agree that they can 17 be found in dust? 18 A. Yeah. 19 Q. Do you think dust can travel 20 from one piece of property to another? 21 A. I'm certainly not an aerosol 22 scientist, but if you had a piece of -- 23 if you had a dust film on, let's say, a 0131 1 structure outside, then I think you would 2 have to have a pretty high wind to blow 3 that off to another structure. I don't 4 have a good sense for that. 5 Q. Well, how did the dust get 6 inside these people's houses? 7 A. Well, I think it's dust or 8 dirt. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. I think if s dirt being 11 tracked in from outside. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033290 12 Q. Okay. So you would agree 13 that PCBs are found in dirt? 14 A. PCBs can be found in dirt -- 15 Q. Soil? 16 A. -- soil, sediment. They 17 adhere very, very tightly to the organic 18 portion of soils. 19 Q. You would agree that dirt or 20 soil can be moved from one place to 21 another? 22 A. Correct, in a myriad of ways. 23 Q. Right. When Monsanto was 0132 1 tearing down the Wright house and other 2 structures around the Hinds property, did 3 you do anything to keep the dust from 4 getting on the Hinds property, dust or 5 soil? 6 A. Well, the primary dust 7 suppression technique we used was water 8 spray. 9 Q. And what exactly does that 10 entail? 11 A. Essentially water spray. And 12 1 know that water spray was used on the 13 Wright house. I was not there during the 14 actual demolition of the Wright house. I HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033291 15 was there, I think, right after that and 16 saw the standing water, if you will. So 17 1 know that water spray had been used on 18 that structure. 19 Q. Was it just somebody standing 20 there with a water hose, or is there a 21 special truck that they use? I just-- 22 A. There is a special truck 23 along with special -- not special hoses, 0133 1 but special nozzles. 2 Q. Did Monsanto always use this 3 dust suppression measure when they were 4 demolishing properties? 5 A. On all the demolitions that 6 I'm aware of that I participated in, we 7 always had a water truck on site. 8 Q. The ones that you personally 9 observed? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. Does the use of these dust 12 suppression measures keep all dust from 13 getting on any other property? Is it a 14 hundred percent effective, I guess, is 15 what I'm asking? 16 A. Oh, I don't know whether it's 17 a hundred percent effective; but based on HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033292 18 my observations, it does an extremely 19 good job of suppressing dust and 20 restricting dust to a very localized area 21 of where, for example, the bucket or the 22 claw of the piece of equipment is tearing 23 into or ripping the structure. 0134 1 Q. Okay. But even with the use 2 of dust suppression measures, there could 3 still be some dust or dirt that might 4 move from a place where you're 5 demolishing property? 6 A. That's a possibility. 7 Q. Did you know that the 8 Hinds -- the pawn shop property has an 9 apartment upstairs? 10 A. Yes, I think I knew that. 11 Q. Do you know if -- did you 12 ever know anybody to be renting it or 13 living there? 14 A. I think Mr. Hinds has 15 mentioned to me of a person that is a 16 renter. How long they've been there, I 17 don't know. 18 Q. But during the conversations 19 that you've had with Mr. Hinds, that's 20 come up, or he's mentioned to you? HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033293 21 A. I think Mr. Hinds has 22 mentioned that, and it may have been in 23 the context of security issues in the 0135 1 rear of the building. I'm not sure what 2 the context was. 3 Q. Do you know why the property 4 wouldn't qualify for the residential 5 property purchase program since it had an 6 apartment upstairs? 7 A. No, I do not. 8 Q. Do you know who was in charge 9 of determining whether a piece of 10 property was eligible for the property 11 purchase program? 12 A. If you would, repeat that 13 again. Do I know who was responsible for 14 making that decision? 15 Q. Yes. 16 A. No. 17 Q. Okay. Who was in charge of 18 the residential property purchase 19 program? 20 A. Well, prior to me -- prior to 21 my coming on site, they had already 22 designed and were implementing the 23 purchase property program. There are HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033294 0136 1 several people, perhaps Dr. Kaley, Bob 2 Kaley, may have been involved in the 3 design of that program in some way. 4 Q. You said they were already 5 implementing the program when you came 6 board? 7 A. Most of the program had been 8 implemented by the time I came there in 9 March of 1996. 10 Q. So you don't know how the 11 term residential was defined for purposes 12 of the property purchase program? 13 A. No. If s my understanding 14 residential was residential from the 15 standpoint of if you had a residence. 16 And to the best of my understanding, if 17 it's primarily residential, it was 18 residential. 19 Q. Primarily residential, what 20 do you mean by primarily? 21 A. Well, if you get a structure 22 and if it's primarily, I mean most of 23 that structure is devoted to residential, 0137 1 then it's probably residential. 2 Q. So it's just a majority rule HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] 3 kind of thing is what you're thinking? 4 A. Well, again, and I think 5 you're right, what I'm thinking, but I 6 really don't specifically know because I 7 wasn't around when they designed that 8 and defined that scope. 9 Q. But it did include renters, 10 not just people that owned residential 11 property; is that correct? 12 A. Well, it included people that 13 owned -- it included people that owned 14 residential property, whether they were 15 an owner-occupant or whether they were an 16 owner-renter, used it for rental 17 property. 18 Q. Right. You were involved-19 were you involved in the process of 20 buying the Shedder property? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Okay. So you don't know 23 anything about that property? 0138 1 A. No, I do not. 2 Q. How about the SouthTrust Bank 3 property? Do you know if Monsanto has 4 purchased any SouthTrust Bank property? 5 A. SouthTrust Bank. I'm trying HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033296 6 to recall exactly where that's located. 7 Was that located north of the railroad 8 tracks on Clydesdale? 9 MR. HINDS: Next door to the 10 bakery and the Choo Choo, across from the 11 Stop 'N Shop. 12 A. I know that structure. 13 Q. Okay. Do you know if 14 Monsanto purchased that structure? 15 A. No, we have not. 16 Q. Do you know if they have 17 engaged in any negotiations about 18 purchasing that structure? 19 A. To the best of my knowledge, 20 no. 21 Q. Anybody that would know more 22 than you? 23 A. Probably not. 0139 1 Q. How about Ray's Restaurant, 2 are you familiar with that property? 3 A. No. I don't even know who 4 the owner of that property is. 5 Q. The right-of-way that you 6 purchased from somebody named Carr -- 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. -- did that involve an HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033297 9 ongoing business, or did you just 10 purchase -- well, why don't you explain 11 to me about that purchase? We didn't 12 really talk about that much. 13 A. That was a piece of property 14 which was a one-hundred-foot-wide strip 15 of right-of-way that had been, at one 16 time, owned by CSX and which had been 17 sold to a gentleman named Ronnie Carr as 18 a package of properties that he acquired 19 from the railroad. His primary interest 20 was in a large section of railroad 21 right-of-way property up near Alexandria; 22 but as a part of that package purchase, 23 this strip of property was included. 0140 1 Q. Where is that strip of 2 property located? 3 A. That strip of property is 4 directly south of the Miller estate 5 property and directly north of and abuts 6 the West 10th Street and its 7 right-of-way. It runs from approximately 8 Clydesdale Avenue or where Ferron -- 9 close to where Ferron and West 10th 10 Street, and it runs from that point east 11 past Pine Grove Road. Not the section we HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033298 12 purchased. We only purchased the section 13 down to McDaniel Road. 14 Q. How did you come about 15 purchasing that property? 16 A. Mr. Carr called us. He was 17 out reviewing the various properties he 18 had purchased to see where they were 19 located, and that was a section of 20 property that he owned. 21 And I think he had found out 22 that we had purchased the Miller 23 property. And so he was interested in 0141 1 contacting the owner of that property to 2 find out whether we might have an 3 interest in also purchasing that strip of 4 property that abutted the Miller 5 property. 6 Q. And you were interested? 7 A. And we were interested, 8 because, as I recall, we were trying to 9 determine who owned that strip of 10 property anyway. 11 Q. Why were you trying to figure 12 that out? 13 A. Because we needed to acquire 14 a strip of property in order to move the HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033299 15 -- or as a part of that construction 16 project to convey the water from the 17 south side of West 10th Street to the 18 north side of the Miller property and the 19 north side of the railroad track. And in 20 order to do any construction along there, 21 you had to do construction in that 22 right-of-way. 23 Q. So you needed the 0142 1 right-of-way for your remediation 2 project? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. Do you remember how much you 5 paid them for it? 6 A. Right offhand, I don't. I 7 know we had two appraisals. And as I 8 recall, I think I went with the highest 9 appraisal, but I don't remember what that 10 number was. 11 Q. Did you ever have that 12 property tested for PCBs? 13 A. I don't think we did have 14 that specific piece tested, although 15 where that ditch was, we were fairly sure 16 of kind of what kind of levels we would 17 see, because we tested the ditch and on HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033300 18 each side of the ditch right directly 19 north of that particular piece of 20 property. 21 Q. So you thought because of the 22 tests on property adjacent to the 23 right-of-way property, tests on the 0143 1 property would reveal similar or the same 2 results? 3 A. I think that right there 4 where the ditch flowed underneath West 5 10th Street, where it came up, surfaced, 6 that was part of the Carr property. You 7 go maybe ten foot more to the north, and 8 that's the Miller property. We 9 extensively tested the Miller property, 10 because we knew who owned the Miller 11 property, and we needed to do the 12 sampling. 13 Q. So you thought ten feet away, 14 the PCB levels would be approximately the 15 same or similar? 16 A. I think that they would 17 probably range in the same -- they would 18 probably be in the same numeric range, in 19 the ditch and on both sides of the ditch. 20 Q. Do you know if the appraisers HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033301 21 who appraised that property took the fact 22 that the property might be contaminated 23 with PCBs into consideration in coming up 0144 1 with their appraised value? 2 A. All commercial properties 3 that I was associated with where we had 4 appraisals, they never considered any 5 contamination of any of the properties, 6 all appraisals. 7 Q. And is that because you told 8 them not to? 9 A. That was the instruction that 10 I gave them. I think we have touched on 11 that earlier. 12 Q. I'm just making sure. 13 A. But you're correct. 14 MS. BLOCK: I'm sorry. Just 15 give me one second. 16 Q. (By Ms. Block) Let me show 17 you what's been marked as Plaintiffs 18 Exhibit 9 and ask you if you recognize 19 that document? 20 MR. NEWSOM: Did you want him 21 to look at the -- well, you can look at 22 the whole thing if you need to. 23 A. Yes. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033302 0145 1 Q. What is that document? 2 A. This is an appraisal report 3 that summarizes an appraisal of the Pat 4 Pace properties located north of the 5 railroad track along Clydesdale Avenue 6 done by Roger Casson, or he may pronounce 7 his name Casson. 8 Q. And that was prepared for 9 you? 10 A. Prepared for Solutia or 11 Monsanto. 12 Q. And it has your name on the 13 front? 14 A. Correct, as a representative 15 of Solutia. 16 Q. If you would look at page-- 17 I'm going to give you the last three 18 numbers of what we call the Bates stamp 19 number, 711. 20 A. Okay. 21 Q. And I believe that says that 22 the owner of the subject property has 23 supplied a copy of a soil sampling report 0146 1 from Monsanto, Inc. to the owner which 2 indicates that high levels of PCBs are HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033303 3 located on the subject property. While 4 the values in the subject report are as 5 if there is no soil contamination, a copy 6 of this report is included in the 7 addendum to this report. Any third-party 8 reader should be aware of this 9 contamination. Is that correct? 10 A. That's correct. That's what 11 it states. 12 Q. Why do you think the 13 appraiser put that in there? 14 MR. NEWSOM: Let me just 15 object to the extent it calls for 16 speculation. You may know exactly why he 17 put it in there, but since it's his and 18 not yours -- if you know, you can tell 19 her. If you don't know, you don't know. 20 A. I believe Mr. Casson put that 21 in at the request of the owner of the 22 property, Mr. Pat Pace. 23 Q. Do you know why Mr. Pat Pace 0147 1 would have requested that? 2 A. No, I do not. 3 Q. Did he mention it to you that 4 he wanted that in there? 5 A. No, he did not. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033304 6 Q. Okay. I'm going to show you 7 another document. This is Plaintiffs 8 Exhibit 11, and it looks like some 9 handwritten notes. I just wonder if 10 you've ever seen that before? 11 A. No, I have never seen this. 12 Q. You don't recognize that 13 handwriting? 14 A. No, I do not. 15 Q. I believe it says at the top 16 that Mr. Blair doesn't want to sell his 17 two houses unless he also sells his 18 commercial property. Is that what that 19 says? 20 MR. NEWSOM: Well, obviously 21 the document speaks for itself. I don't 22 know if you're asking him just to -- 23 because he said he's not seen the 0148 1 document. I don't think he -- 2 Q. I'll just read it. This 3 document says, referring to Mr. Blair, 4 Said he would not sell his two houses 5 without selling his commercial property. 6 Do you know if Monsanto bought any 7 property from James Blair? 8 A. It's my understanding we did. HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033305 9 Q. But you weren't involved in 10 the purchase of that property personally? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Do you know what property was 13 bought? 14 A. It's my understanding that we 15 bought two properties from Mr. Blair, and 16 1 may be incorrect on one, but Mr. Blair 17 lived at a piece of property right on 18 Ferron. That was the house we bought. I 19 believe the house that's directly south 20 of that one was a rental property that 21 was owned by Mr. Blair. I may be 22 incorrect on that. But I think those are 23 two pieces of property that, as I 0149 1 understand, were owned by Mr. Blair that 2 we purchased. 3 Q. And those are both 4 residential properties? 5 A. Both of those are homes, yes. 6 Q. Do you know if Monsanto 7 bought any commercial property from Mr. 8 Blair? 9 A. No, nor do I know of any 10 commercial property owned by Mr. Blair. Ill mean, that Blair. There's a number of HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033306 12 Blairs in there. 13 Q. By Mr. James C. Blair? 14 A. Yes. 15 MS. BLOCK: Okay. If you'll 16 give me one second to talk to Mr. Hinds, 17 I may be able to finish up. 18 19 (Whereupon, a brief recess 20 was taken.) 21 22 Q. (By Ms. Block) Just a couple 23 more questions. 0150 1 A. Okay. 2 Q. Did you ever talk to one of 3 the Hinds, Ricky or Cecil, about concerns 4 they might have about potential liability 5 they might have as owners of the pawn 6 shop property? 7 A. No, I don't recall that type 8 of conversation. 9 Q. You don't remember them 10 expressing concern about ten, twenty 11 years down the road whether they might 12 have some responsibility for PCB 13 contamination on their property? 14 A. No, specifically I just don't HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033307 15 remember that. I'm not saying that that 16 did not come up, but I just do not recall 17 it. 18 Q. I understand. Do you ever 19 remember saying to them after they had 20 expressed any concern to you, that 21 Monsanto is a big company or anything 22 like that? 23 A. Monsanto is a big company? 0151 1 No. 2 Q. Has Monsanto ever had an 3 appraisal done on the Hinds property? 4 A. Not to my knowledge. 5 MR. NEWSOM: There has been 6 one done. I just don't know that he 7 knows that. 8 9 (Whereupon, a discussion off 10 the record was held.) 11 12 MS. BLOCK: Okay. We're 13 through, unless you have anything. 14 MR. NEWSOM: Nothing. 15 16 FURTHER DEPONENT SAITH NOT 17 HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033308 18 19 20 21 22 23 0152 1 CERTIFICATE 2 3 STATE OF ALABAMA) 4 JEFFERSON COUNTY) 5 6 I hereby certify that the 7 above and foregoing deposition was taken 8 down by me in stenotype, and the 9 questions and answers thereto were 10 transcribed by means of computer-aided 11 transcription, and that the foregoing 12 represents a true and correct transcript 13 of the testimony given by said witness 14 upon said deposition. 15 I further certify that I am 16 neither of counsel nor of kin to the 17 parties to the action, nor am I in 18 anywise interested in the result of said 19 cause. 20 HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033309 21 22 ______________________ 22 TANYA D. CORNELIUS 23 HINDS 10-07-1999 Eley, Brace.TXT[8/22/2017 4:46:02 PM] HARTOLDMON0033310