Document 7oOeObb139Zw1BydLJgdjB6j

8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES PAUL JOHN COPPOLA and TERRIE WHITTAKER-COPPOLA, : > ] Plaintiffs, ) : CASE NO. BC 323163 3M COMPANY, et al.. Defendants. 9 10 11 12 13 14 TELEPHONIC DEPOSITION OF CARLO F. MARTINO 15 New York, New York 16 Wednesday, August 31, 200S 1? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Reported by: DIANE HARTY JOB NO. 176886 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 August 31, 2005 8 2:55 p.m. 9 10 11 Telephonic Deposition of CARLO F. 12 MARTINO, held at the offices of Orrick, 13 Herrington & Sutcliffe, LLP, 666 Fifth 14 Avenue, New York, New York, pursuant to 15 Notice, before 16 DIANE HARTY, a Notary Public of the State 17 of New York. IB 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 2 APPEARANCES: 3 4 LAW OFFICE OF STEPHEN HEALY 5 Attorneys for Plaintiffs 6 1334 Park View Avenue, Suite 100 7 Manhattan Beach, California 90266 8 BY: STEPHEN J. HEALY, ESQ. 9 (via telephone) 10 11 12 MAYER, BROWN, ROWE fi MAW 13 Attorneys for Union Cable 14 71 S. Wacker 15 Chicago, IL 60606-4637 16 BY: KATHERINE CLARK, ESQ. 17 (via telephone) 13 19 20 McKENNA LONG & ALDRIDGE 21 Attorneys for Union Carbide 22 444 South Flower Street 23 Los Angeles, CA 90071 24 BY: FARAH SOHALI NICOL, ESQ. 25 (via telephone) 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 2 PALMIERI, TYLER, WIENER, 3 WILHELM WALDRON, LLP 4 Attorneys for 3M Company 5 2603 Main Street, East Tower 6 Suite 1300 7 Irvine, California 92614-6228 8 BY: CHARLES KANTER, ESQ. 9 (via telephone) 10 11 12 ORRICK, HERRINGTON fi SUTCLIFFE, LLP 13 Attorneys for Carlo Martino 14 666 Fifth Avenue 15 New York, New York 10103-0001 16 BY: JOSEPH J. WELCH, ESQ. 17 13 19 HOWARD, ROME, MARTIN fi RIDLEY, LLP 20 Attorneys for Irao Industries, Inc. 21 1775 Woodside Road, Suite 200 22 Redwood City, California 94061 23 BY: TIA McDOUGALL, ESQ. 24 (via telephone) 25 2 4 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 2 SELMAN BREITMAN, LLP 3 Attorneys for Cleaver-Brooks, 4 a Division of Aqua-Chera 5 11766 Wilshire Boulevard, 6th Floor 6 Los Angeles, California 90025-6538 BY: TIM PIPER, ESQ. 8 (via telephone) 9 10 11 PRINDLE, DECKER S AMARO 12 Attorneys for Guard-Line, Inc.; 13 Murco Wall Products, Inc.; 14 Riley Stoker Corporation 15 310 Golden Shore 16 Long Beach, California 90802-4246 17 BY: CARLA CROCHRET, ESQ. 18 (via telephone) 19 20 - oOo 21 22 23 24 25 8/31/2005 Marlino, Carlo in Coppola 1 2 (Exhibits 1 through 4 marked for 3 identification, as of this date.) 4 CARLO F. MARTINO, called as 5 a witness, having been duly sworn by a 6 Notary Public, was examined and testified 7 as follows: 8 EXAMINATION BY 9 MR. HEALY: 10 Q. This is Stephen Healy here for the 11 plaintiffs. 12 A. Are you speaking to me. Carlo Martino? 13 Are you speaking to me? 14 Q- Yes. 15 This is Stephen Healy. Can you hear 16 me? 17 A. Yes, I can hear you. 18 Q. I represent Mr. Coppola in an asbestos 19 injury case. Have you ever testified in an 20 asbestos injury case? 21 MS. NICOL: Before we go on, for 22 housekeeping matters, let me get on the 23 record with a few stipulations which this 24 deposition is proceeding. 25 MR. HEALY: All right. 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 MS. NICOL: As a result of numerous 3 meet-and-confer meetings with Plaintiffs' 4 counsel, I will list probably the most 5 salient stipulations needed on the record. 6 First is that out-of-state counsel participating on the phone, including 8 Katherine Clark and J. Welch, are fully able 9 to participate in this deposition even though 10 they are not counseling attorneys. Plaintiff 11 stipulated to that. Do any other counsel on 12 the phone have any objections to their fully 13 participating in this deposition as 14 out-of-state lawyers? 15 Hearing no objections, I believe we 16 have stipulations from all, then. 17 The second item is that the scope of 18 this deposition has been agreed to by 19 Plaintiffs to be limited to the Northrop site 20 Plaintiff worked at during the years 1967 to 21 1974, including the end of 1974. 22 And the third stipulation is that, 23 pursuant to the document request in 24 Plaintiffs' deposition notice, we have 25 produced what Plaintiffs have indicated 8/31/2005 Marlino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 they are going to mark and attach to 3 the deposition transcript as Exhibit 4, 4 which is collectively a sales ledger 5 regarding Northrop, and we have agreed that 6 is the extent of our production of documents concerning this deposition notice. Thank you, Steve. You can go ahead. 9 MR. HEALY: I think that, just so that 10 we are clear, we agreed to the time limits in 11 the Northrop site and the counsel fully 12 participating. The documents request, let me 13 get back to you. That's the first I heard 14 that. 15 I do request the other defense 16 attorneys on the lawyers on the phone -- this 17 is Healy here -- because we are on a 18 telephone, if you'd state your last name, 19 "McDougall, objection, hearsay," et cetera, 20 that way the record is just a little more 21 clear. Does everyone agree to that? 22 On the other matters I request that we 23 enter into a stipulation that an objection by 24 one is deemed joined by all who are on the 25 phone, unless they opt out.That way we 6 7 8 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 don't have to hear "Join," "Join," "Join." 3 Is that agreeable. Counsel? 4 MS. McDOUGALL: Agree. 5 MR. WELCH: Agreed. 6 MR. KANTER: Agree. 7 MS. NICOL: Agree. 8 MR. HEALY: We will now proceed with 9 the deposition. 10 MS. NICOL: On the document request. 11 we did have numerous meet-and-confers 12 regarding the deposition notice and the 13 documents requested and performed a search 14 related to all non-generic Bakelite 15 categories of documents that were requested 16 and, as had been discussed in great detail 17 with Marty Morris of Baron & Budd, there were 18 no responsive documents to the categories 19 found, and the ledger is just being provided 20 as a confirmation of a lack of being able to 31 find documents relating to the Northrop site 32 for Plaintiffs' convenience. 23 MR. HEALY: We will talk later, but I 24 have an e-mail from you. Maybe that's 3 5 accurate, but I don't want to burn up time. 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 We already used up an hour and I understand 3 that we are limited today, so I would like to 4 get to the substance. MS. NICOL: Yes, we are limited because 6 you had court commitments and we couldn't start until 11:00, and we tried to get 8 everything that you wanted to use as exhibits 9 copied and sent today. 10 MR. KANTER: Can the witness state his 11 name again? 12 THE WITNESS: Carlo F. Martino, 13 M-a-r -t-i-n-o. 14 MR. KANTER: Thank you. 15 Q- Mr. Martino, have you ever testified in 16 as asbestos injury case before? 17 A. Asbestos injury as a result of raw 18 asbestos? 19 Q- Any asbestos injury case, have you ever 20 testified in a deposition before, sir? 31 A. Yes, I have. 32 Q- About how many times? 23 A. Almost a dozen. 24 Q- Sir, you are 78 years old? 25 A. Yes. 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 Q- You are retired? 3 A. Yes, I am. 4 Q. Where did you work the bulk of your 5 work life? 6 A. At Union Carbide, at the -- what used 7 to be called Bound Brook site. It's now called 8 the Piscataway site, in New Jersey. 9 Q- Do you have any information, knowledge 10 or experience with Calidria asbestos? 11 A. I am familiar with it. 12 Q. Would you please tell me when you 13 retired from Union Carbide, what year it was? 14 A. 1996. 15 Q. When did you start working for Union 16 Carbide? 17 A. In 1948. 13 Q- Did there come a time in which you were 19 involved with asbestos sales of Union Carbide? 20 MS. NICOL: Objection. 31 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague. 22 A. Asbestos sales? 23 Q. Yes. 24 A. No, I was not. 35 Q- Would you give me a shorthand version 9 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 of what you did from 1948 to 1996 at Union 3 Carbide. Were you engineer, salesperson, 4 management? What did you do? 5 A. I started out as a trainee in 1948 in 6 the production department. At the end of about a 7 year, I was transferred to the research and 8 development department working on polystyrene 9 products. In the end of 1958, *59, I was 10 transferred to polyethylene molding group and then 11 I became a group manager for the technical service 12 group for all thermoplastic and thermosetting 13 resins and molding compounds. 14 In 1960 I became the group manager for 15 phenolic molding materials, for phenolic molding 16 material and laminating resins, and that included 17 the development and service of customers in that 18 business. And that was up until 1974. I then was 19 transferred back into the thermoplastic business, 20 and I was in the polyethylene business as a 21 manager in various positions until I retired. 22 Q. Focusing on your experience 1950 to 23 1974, what was your title? 24 A. Group manager of the research and 25 development product group for phenolic molding 10 11 12 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 materials and laminating resins. 3 Q. I understand you to have said that you 4 were involved in some customer service function in 5 that time frame. 6 A. As part of that job, yes, we developed 7 products, but we also helped our customers when 8 there were problems with the products. 9 Q. And you sit there today, do you have a 10 recollection in the 1960 to 1974 time frame who 11 the major customers of Union Carbide were for 12 phenolic molding and laminating resins? 13 MS. NICOL: I object. This is beyond 14 the scope of the person most knowledgeable 15 deposition notice. 16 Q. Sir, do you -- 17 THE WITNESS: Am I supposed to answer 18 that? I thought there was an objection. 19 MS. NICOL: You haven't noticed this 20 deposition as anything other than a corporate 21 representative on various categories, and 22 that category -- unless you can show me in 23 the notice where that category is covered. 24 MR. HEALY: It's preliminary but it 25 goes to category 33 D, 3 K, 3 L, 3 M. 8/31/2005 Marlino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 MS. NICOL: Why don't you ask him those 3 categories then. Your question was far 4 broader than that. 5 MR. HEALY: Thank you. 6 Q. Sir, do you have a recollection of who 7 the major customers were for those products, 8 phenolic moldings and laminating resins, in the 9 1960 to 1974 time frame? 10 MS. CLARK: Objection. Compound, 11 ambiguous as to time frame. 12 MS. NICOL: Same objections as before. 13 It's beyond the scope and we are following 14 this deposition notice especially with the 15 understanding it's beinglimited to the 16 Northrop site in this case and the time frame 17 at issue. You will have to have a time frame 18 limitation and you certainly have to relate 19 it back to the categories here. 20 MR. HEALY: It has to do with memory 21 about what he did during that period of time 22 and it's foundational. 23 MS. NICOL: That's substantive. It's 24 not covered by your deposition notice. You 25 can get foundation in many other ways so. If 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 you want to test his memory, you can test his 3 memory about the categories which you noticed 4 this deposition. 5 Q. Sir, without identifying who the 6 customers were that you serviced, could you give 7 me an idea of what you did in connection with your 8 customer service work. Did you visit plants? Did 9 you call them? Did you correspond? Did you speak 10 on the phone? What did you do? 11 A. We -- if we had a new product, we would 12 go out to selected customers to test it and the 13 application for which we developed it. If the 14 customer had a problem with an existing product 15 that he needed help on, that it didn't perform as 16 a previous order, one of us in the group would go 17 out to visit the customer and determine what the 18 problem was and try to solve it. We also answered 19 questions on the phone or letters that we might 20 receive from our customers. 21 Q. Did you have communication or contact 22 with Northrop Grumman? 23 A. No, I did not. I don't recall of any 24 contact with them at all. 25 Q. Did you have any contact in the 13 8/31/2005 Marlino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 aerospace industry for use of the phenolic 3 moldings for laminated resins? 4 A. I did not, no, and my group did not. 5 Q. Did you have any knowledge of whether 6 or not Union Carbide sold asbestos to Northrop 7 Grumman? 8 MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. 9 MR. HEALY: You shut me down on 10 foundation. 11 MS. CLARK: Pardon me? 12 MR. HEALY: You shut me down on 13 foundation. Now you are telling me that the 14 question lacks foundation. Do you see the 15 problem? 16 MS. CLARK: That's a totally separate 17 question from what Farah was talking about 13 before. I understood your question to be 10 referring to Calidria. You said something 20 about sales and asbestos. 21 Q. Sir, do you have knowledge that 22 Union Carbide sold asbestos to Northrop Grumman? 23 MR. HEALY: Are you directing him not 24 to answer? 25 MS. CLARK: No. I'm objecting the 14 15 16 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 witness may not know. 3 A. I was not involved in the sale of 4 Calidria asbestos. Calidria was handled by a 5 different division of Union Carbide. 6 Q. What division was that? 7 A. I think they were called the Calidria 8 Division. I have to defer to the records on that. 9 Q. Did some of the phenolic moldings and 10 laminating resins your group was involved with 11 in the 1960 to 1974 trial frame, did they contain 12 asbestos? 13 A. Some did. Some of the molding 14 materials did. The phenolic resins did not. 15 Q. The molding, did they use RG 244? 16 MS. NICOL: Lack of foundation. 17 Overbroad, beyond the scope of the deposition 18 notice. 19 Q. You may answer, sir. 20 MS. NICOL: And calls for speculation. 31 I think he said he wasn't involved in the 32 sale of Calidria asbestos. 23 MR. HEALY: That wasn't the question. 24 Q. Did the moldings have RG 244 in it? 25 A. No, they did not. 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 Q- Did they have SG 100 in it? 3 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague. 4 Q Did they? 5 A. As I recall, SG 100 is a pelleted 6 asbestos. And if I am correct about that, we 7 tested it but it did not perform to our 8 satisfaction. 9 Q. Did you sell customers molding with 10 SG 100 in it for a period of time in the 1960s? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Any other Calidria type, RG 100 13 asbestos T 135, did any of the other Calidria 14 asbestos grades make it into the molding that 15 Union Carbide sold? 16 A. We only tested Calidria asbestos to 17 replace Carey asbestos and decided that it IB would require change in our formulations, and 19 we did not approve the use of Calidria asbestos 20 as a substitute. 31 Q. The molding that you sold, did it go 32 under the trademark or trade name or trade dress 23 Bakelite? 24 A. The molding materials and resins were 25 both sold as Bakelite resins. 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 Q. Sold under any other trademark or trade 3 name or trade dress; Union Carbide, for example? 4 A. At one point the Union Carbide label 5 was plated on the bags in addition to having the 6 Bakelite designation there. Exactly when that 7 occurred, I don't remember. 8 Q. Do you recall in the 1960-1974 period 9 of time any exclusivity agreement between Union 10 Carbide and any other third party regarding 11 asbestos-containing molding sales? 12 A. No, I'm not aware of any such 13 exclusivity agreement. I'm not sure that's legal, 14 is it? 15 Q. Well, I understand sometimes if you buy 16 a Zenith television, it might be manufactured by a 17 different company in Taiwan. Did Union Carbide 18 have an arrangement such as that, they would sell 19 their molding to a different company, for example 20 General Electric, and they "GE" stamped it? 21 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague, 22 ambiguous, lack of foundation. 23 A. I'm not aware of any such arrangement. 24 Q. As far as you knew, all of the 25 asbestos-containing molding that Union Carbide 17 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 sold went under the nameBakelite except some 3 for a period of time there was "Union Carbide" 4 written on the bag? MS. NICOL: It misstates testimony in 6 that other manufacturers' material were also under the Bakelite. The question seems to 8 presume it would only be a Union Carbide 9 product. 10 MR. HEALY: Would you read back the 11 question. 12 MS. NICOL: Vague, ambiguous, overbroad 13 and misstates his testimony. 14 (Question read.) 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Were you aware of any useof 17 asbestos-containing products made by Union Carbide 18 in the aerospace industry in the 1960-1974 time 19 frame? 20 A. No, I'm not. 21 Q. Was Union Carbide asbestos used in the 22 manufacture of polyester-basedvinyls? 23 MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. 24 You can answer. 25 A. As I understand that question you are 18 19 20 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 asking, if asbestos, raw asbestos, was used in 3 polyester? 4 Q. Polyester-based vinyls. 5 MS. CLARK: Same objection. 6 A. Since I was not involved in the raw 7 asbestos business, I don't know of any such 8 activity. I wasn't familiar, I wasn't involved in 9 that and wouldn't have information on it. That 10 was not. 11 Q. Do you know the contingent ingredients 12 in the moldings and laminating resins as part of 13 your group in the 1960, 1974 period of time? 14 A. Yes. 15 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague, 16 ambiguous. 17 Q- Do you understand the question, sir? 18 A. I thought I answered it. Would you 19 repeat it again. 20 Q. Do you know the contingent ingredients 31 in the phenolic moldings and laminating resins 32 your group made in the 1960 or '74 time period? 23 A. Yes, I do. 24 Q. Did any of the laminating resins 2 5 contain asbestos in that period of time? 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 A. No, they did not. 3 Q. Some of the phenolic moldings did? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Did those phenolic moldings have an 6 identifier if today we go back and look through a 7 catalog or trade name or a model number by which 8 we can tell if they were asbestos-containing? 9 A. Only by the number designation and the 10 product data sheet, the product formulation sheet 11 that would apply to that number. 12 Q. If I wanted to find the product 13 formulation sheet for moldings that your group 14 made in the 1960 to *74 time period, do you know 15 where those are kept? 16 A. Right now they are at Mayer, Brown, 17 Rowe Maw. 18 Q. As you sit here today, do you know the 19 number designations of the moldings that contained 20 asbestos that Union Carbide sold in the 1960 to 31 1974 time period? 32 A. I remember some of them. 23 MS. CLARK: Objection as to compound 24 and vague. 25 Q. What are the numbers that you do 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 remember? 3 MS. NICOL: Beyond the scope of the 4 deposition notice. 5 A. Am I supposed to answer that? 6 Q- Please. 7 A. BMG 5440, BMG 5303, BMG 3700 green. 8 The other two were black: BMG 15138, BMG 5353. 9 Those were the largest volume. 3700 wasn't, but 10 the others were the largest volume. I don't 11 remember the others but there were a few others. 12 Q. Do you have any knowledge or 13 information or belief that the moldings that you 14 just mentioned -- BMG 5440, et cetera -- were used 15 in the manufacture of any component parts to jet 16 aircrafts? 17 A. No, I'm not aware of that. 13 Q- Avionics? 15 A. What was that again? 20 Q. Avionics? 21 A. That's the name of a company? 22 Q- No. It's the electrical systems in 23 aircrafts. 24 A. I'm not aware of any sales that -- 25 Q- Are you aware of any sales to McDonnell 21 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 Douglas? 3 A. No, I'm not. 4 Q. Were you involved in the manufacture or 5 sale of Union Carbide asbestos-containing molding 6 that would have been used in electronics or 7 communications equipment in the 1960 to 1974 time 8 frame? 9 A. Union Carbide did not manufacture 10 molded items. It manufactured molding material 11 which was sold to molders who made the parts. 12 They in turn sold it to their customers. 13 Q. In your line of work in the 14 distribution chain. Union Carbide sold to molders 15 who in turn sold to their customers, right? 16 A. They formed the part and they sold the 17 parts to their customers, yes. 18 Q. Did any of these materials you just 19 described, the BMG 5440, et cetera, did they have 20 military specification numbers? 21 MS. NICOL: Beyond the scope of the 22 deposition notice. 23 Q. Did they, sir? 24 A. Am I supposed to answer? 25 Q. Please. 22 23 24 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 A. Some of thorn wore qualified under the 3 military specifications. I don't recall which 4 they were. 5 Q. Do you recall if any of them were 6 qualified for military specifications in 7 connection with electronics or communications 8 equipment ? 9 A. As I recall, the military specification 10 allowed the molder to use that product for parts 11 that the government specified that required a 12 material that met that specification. What those 13 parts were, I donTt know. 14 Q. Do you have a recollection any of the 15 molding materials you identified as BMG 5440, 16 et cetera, were used in the sale to third parties 17 for the manufacture of electronic boards or panels 18 during the period 1960 to 1974? 19 A. The molding materials would not be used 20 for the manufacture of boards. They are used 21 primarily for complicated shapes. The boards are 22 made by entirely different process. Those boards 23 are made by laminators and we sold phenolic resins 24 to those laminators who then made the boards and 25 sold them to their customers. 8/31/2005 Marlino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 Q. Do you have any knowledge or 3 information or belief that the molding that you 4 sold, or Union Carbide sold -- BMG 5440, 5303, 5 et cetera -- were used by other manufacturers for 6 resale to aircraft or aircraft component part 7 manufacturers ? 8 MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. 9 A. I wouldn't know who our customers sold 10 their parts to unless they had a specific problem 11 that they wanted us to help them with. They 12 didn't give us that information unless it was 13 absolutely necessary, and I don't recall of any 14 problem arising with parts that had been sold to 15 aircraft manufacturers. 16 Q. Were there other divisions at Union 17 Carbide that sold asbestos-containing phenolics or 18 resins separate and apart from your group in the 19 1960 to 1974 period of time? 20 A. In the United States? 31 Q- Yes. 32 A. In the United States, no. 23 Q. Do you have any knowledge or 24 information or belief about the use of asbestos in 25 the aerospace industry for lightweight plastic. 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 phenolics or vinyls? MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation, 4 compound. 5 A. Could you repeat the last part. For 6 what? Q. Perhaps the court reporter could read 8 back the question to thewitness, please. 9 (Question read.) 10 A. Vinyls, I'm not aware of any. Though I 11 was not involved in that area. 12 What was the other product that you 13 included there? 14 Q. Other than vinyls, I was talking about 15 resins or moldings. 16 MS. NICOL: You will have to ask the 17 question. We don't have a clear question at 18 this point. 19 Q. Do you have any information or belief 20 about the use of asbestos in lightweight plastics, 21 resins, phenolics or moldings for use in the 22 aviation industry? 23 MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation, 24 vague and compound. 25 A. What I'm confusedby is this 25 8/31/2005 Marlino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 "1ightweight." 3 Q. Okay. 4 Do you have any information, knowledge 5 or belief about the use of asbestos in phenolic 6 resins in the aviation industry? MS. CLARK: Same objection. 8 A. I'm not familiar with any. 9 Q. Do you have any knowledge, information 10 or belief about the use of asbestos in vinyls used 11 in the aviation industry? 12 MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. 13 A. I'm not familiar with any vinyl 14 asbestos-containing materials used there. 15 Q. Do you have any information, knowledge 16 or belief about the use of asbestos in moldings 17 used by the aviation industry? 18 MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. 19 A. Since I'm not familiar with what they 20 were doing, I would not have such information. 21 Q. Do you have any knowledge, information 22 or belief about the use of asbestos in component 23 parts used in the electronics industry? 24 MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation, 25 overbroad. 26 27 28 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 A. Not in the electronics industry. 3 Q. Do you have any knowledge, information 4 or belief about the use of asbestos in the 5 manufacture of component parts in the 6 communications industry? MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 8 Foundation, overbroad. 9 A. I know some of the -- 10 By "communications" you mean telephone? 11 Q. Telephone would be included. Do you 12 know asbestos used in telephones? 13 MS. NICOL: This is way beyond the 14 scope of the designation and what the scope 15 has been narrowed to. You want to deal with 16 what might be at issue concerning Mr. Coppola 17 and the Northrop sites during 1967 to *74. 18 MR. HEALY: That's not a proper 19 objection. Counsel. 20 MS. NICOL: It's beyond the scope of 21 the designation and beyond the scope limited 22 for stipulation. 23 MR. HEALY: No, it's not. Counsel. 24 Q. Was asbestos-containing molding used in 25 telephones, Mr. Martino? 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 MS. NICOL: Same objection. 3 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague. 4 Q. You may answer. 5 A. As I recall, by 1967 telephone handles 6 had been changed to colored thermoplastics and no 7 longer were being made out of phenolic molding 8 materials. But I would have to defer to the 9 records as to that, you know, the accuracy of 10 that. But I think a complete conversion had been 11 made at that time. 12 Q. That would have been before 1967 they 13 had asbestos-containing -- 14 MS. NICOL: Objection. Beyond the 15 scope of the designation. At this point 16 you are going to have to tell me how 17 telephone handles apply to any exposure 18 Mr. Coppola may have had and may allege 19 with regards to Northrop during 1967 to '74. 20 Q. Please answer the question. 21 MS. NICOL: I will instruct him not to 22 answer unless you can articulate for me how 23 it is within that scope under which this 24 deposition is proceeding. 25 MR. HEALY: Instruct him not to answer 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 or have him answer the question. 3 Q. Please answer the question, sir. 4 A. I don't know if the product that we 5 used for the telephone handset contained any 6 asbestos in it or not. I don't recall. I would 7 have to defer to the records on that. MS. NICOL: At this point I will simply 9 remind you we are working under time 10 constraints solely created by your wanting to 11 start this deposition later, and if we are 12 talking about telephone handles during the 13 course of this deposition and you don't get 14 out what you feel you may need with regards 15 to our pending summary judgment and with 16 regards to the motion to dismiss that's 17 now being continued for hearing until 18 September 14th, then you do so at your own 19 peril, because clearly you are avoiding 20 getting to those quick and substantive 21 issues. 22 MR. HEALY: That's not true. In fact, 23 you did not produce a witness until you were 24 court-ordered yesterday. That's been the 25 problem, and I will proceed. 29 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 MS. NICOL: The deposition was offered 3 to you before we ever appeared in court 4 yesterday, so you need to correct yourself on 5 the record. 6 MR. HEALY: No. Q. Sir, do you have any knowledge, 8 information or belief regarding sales or 9 distribution agreements entered between 10 Union Carbide and any Northrop Grumman facility 11 in El Segundo, California? 12 A. No, I'm not. 13 Q. Same question Hawthorne, California. 14 A. No. 15 Q. Same question Palmdale, California. 16 A. No, I'm not. 17 Q. Same question Pico Rivera, California. 18 A. No, I'm not. 19 Q. Same question Torrance, California. 20 A. No, I'm not. 21 Q. Do you have any knowledge, information 22 or belief with respect to any of the agreements or 23 contracts entered between Union Carbide and 24 McDonnell Douglas Corporation in connection with 25 its plant at Lakewood, California? 30 31 32 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 A. No, I am not. 3 Q- Do you have any information, knowledge 4 or belief with respect to any of the manufacture, 5 sale or marketing of Bakelite phenolics in the 6 19600 to ' 74 time frame? 7 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague. 8 A. That is to whom? To what company? 9 Q- To any company. 10 MS. CLARK: Same objection. 11 MR. HEALY: It's foundation. 12 Miss Clark. 13 A. Would you please repeat the question 14 again. 15 Q- Sure. 16 Do you have any knowledge, information 17 or belief regarding the manufacture, sale or IS marketing of Bakelite phenolics in the 1960 to 19 1974 time frame by Union Carbide? 20 MS. NICOL: Overbroad and beyond the 21 scope> of the deposition notice on grounds we 22 already covered for the last hour. 23 Q- Do you, sir? 24 A. Since I was in the business, certainly 25 I was familiar with the manufacture and sales and 8/31/2005 Marlino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 marketing of those products. It's -- you know, 3 it's pretty broad. I mean, it's -- 4 Q. I was leading up to some other 5 questions, the next one of which is: Do you know 6 who the intended or foreseeable end users of 7 Bakelite phenolic resins were other than telephone 8 manufacturers? 9 MS. CLARK: Objection. Calls for a 10 legal conclusion. Also vague and compound, 11 beyond -- 12 MS. NICOL: Beyond the scope of the 13 deposition. 14 A. I have a problem with "intended." 15 That implies that we promoted the products in 16 only specific areas, so I want to clarify that 17 point. 18 We made those products available and 19 customers chose to use them in applications where 20 they felt would fit their needs. If they asked 21 for help in developing those applications, we 22 would get involved with it. So the uses that 23 evolved that were then successful, I can tell you 24 what those were. 25 Q. What were they? 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 A. Washing machine agitators, knife 3 handles, pothandles, knobs, toaster panels. 4 Which later were replaced by other products. 5 Bottle caps. 6 Now, your question is phenolic molding 7 materials only; isthatcorrect? 8 Q. Yes. 9 If I understood you, the resins didn't 10 have any asbestos. Is that correct? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. And you were only involved in phenolic 13 moldings and resins in the '60 to '74 time frame? 14 A. Well, I was also involved with phenolic 15 resins that were sold to the laminators. 16 Q. Did those any of those contain 17 asbestos? 18 A. No, they did not. 19 Other applications were electrical 20 parts, wall plates, wall receptacles which you 21 used in the home. Many applications. You know, 22 the literature is full of them. 23 MR. WELCH: I think this would be a 24 good time to take a five-minute break. 25 MS. NICOL: That sounds good. 33 8/31/2005 Marlino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 MR. HEALY: Okay. 3 (Recess taken.) 4 Q. Mr. Martino, before we left on the 5 break, I had asked you whether or not the phenolic 6 resins that your group that you worked for in the 7 1960 to 1974 time frame that you sold to 8 laminators, whether or not any of that contained 9 asbestos. Do you recall that question? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Did any of it contain asbestos? 12 A. No, it did not. 13 Q. Confining this next series of questions 14 to asbestos-containing moldings such as the 15 BMG 5440, et cetera, do you have that in mind? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Focusing on those moldings, what 13 differences or distinctions, if there are any, 17 were there between asbestos-containing moldings 20 and non-asbestos-containing moldings, if you know? 21 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. 22 Q. They are different numbers, right? 23 A. Different in the same color you could 24 not tell which contained asbestos and which did 25 not contain asbestos. You could only tell by the 34 35 36 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 properties of a product which you would have to 3 measure. 4 Q. With respect to the naming and coding 5 and model numbers of asbestos-containing moldings, 6 we would have to go to the sheets that are kept by 7 the Mayer firm, right? 8 A. They might not tell you whether -- 9 Well, the formulation sheets, yes. 10 MS. NICOL: Those would be -- that 11 would be in the repository. 12 Q. With respect to the contents grade, the 13 type of asbestos, that would be in the formulation 14 sheets as well? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. If a judge said he was going to order 17 Union Carbide to turn over a customer -- a 18 manufacturer list to whom these moldings were sold 19 would those be kept in the repository, to your 20 knowledge? 21 A. To whom the molding materials were 22 sold? 23 Q. Yes. 24 A. Well, there are sale scrolls just like 25 the one you have on Northrop. 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 Q. It would look like that (indicating), 3 right? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. It would look like that. Exhibit 4, 6 right? 7 MS. NICOL: What would look like that? 8 MR. HEALY: The sales scrolls, whoever 9 Union Carbide sold their asbestos-containing 10 moldings to. 11 A. Not moldings. Molding materials. 12 Q. Thank you. I appreciate that. 13 Exhibit 4 is what the sales scrolls 14 look like in that period of time, right? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Inviting your attention to Exhibit 3, 17 have you seen that document before? "The 18 rheological properties contributed" -- 19 A. Yes, I did not see that before. No. 20 Q. Are you familiar with the Vistron 31 Corporation of Hawthorne, California? 32 A. No, I am not. 23 Q. Do you know either of these persons 24 Mr. Ingalls or Mr. Kisiel? K-i-s-i-e-1, 25 I-n-g-a-l-l-s. 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 A. Personally, no. 3 Q. Do you know who they are? 4 A. I can only judge from -- 5 I don't know them, no. 6 Q. Does the format of the document 7 Exhibit 3 look familiar to you as a type of 8 document that Union Carbide used in terms of its 9 format in the late 1960s? 10 MS. NICOL: Vague, overbroad, unclear 11 what kind of format you might be referring 12 to, ambiguous as a result. 13 Q. I will ask you a different question. 14 Looking at Exhibit 3, what is that? Is 15 that a report? 16 A. Yes, it is. 17 MS. NICOL: Lacks foundation. I 18 believe the witness stated -- 19 MR. HEALY: He answered. 20 MS. NICOL: I believe the witness said 21 he did not see the document before today, 22 before you presented it at the deposition, so 23 lack of foundation. 24 MR. HEALY: You are coaching the 25 witness on the record and he answered the 37 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 question. MS. NICOL: I am stating ray objection. 4 You can move forward. 5 Q. Sir, is there a type of name you have 6 for this report? MS. CLARK: Objection.Foundation. 8 A. It's a typical R$D report of results 9 obtained on work that was done. 10 Q. Have you had a chance to look at 11 Exhibit No. 3? 12 A. Just the first parts, the firstpage. 13 Q. Does this assist youin refreshing any 14 sort of memory orrecollection about a difficulty 15 that was experienced by customers of Union Carbide 16 in using RG 244 asbestos in their polyester-based 17 resins? 18 MS. CLARK: Objection, mischaracterizes 19 previous testimony. Andrelevance as to 20 polyester. 21 Q. Does it refresh your memory or 22 recollection inany way? 23 A. I was not involved, as I said before, 24 in the sale or the experimentation that went on 25 with Calidria asbestos in various uses they had in 38 39 40 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 mind nor was I involved in work with any customers 3 that made polyester resins# so I wouldn't -- 4 There was no memory to refresh. I 5 wasn't involved. 6 Q. Turning your attention to Exhibit 3# 7 page 1# the center of the page where it says 8 "Group Manager W.L.Carrick,"C-a-r-r-i-c-k, do 9 you see that? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q- Do you know Mr. Carrick? 12 A. Yes# I do. 13 Q- Do you know what group this was? 14 MS. NICOL: Lack of foundation# calls 15 for speculation. 16 A. I don't know what that group was 17 called. IS Q- Do you know what that group was 19 involved with? 20 A. No, I do not. 31 Q- Just below "Group Manager Carrick" it 32 says project number 452-N14. Do you see that? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. What does that mean? 3 5 MS. NICOL: Same objection. 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 A. What was that again? What did you say? 3 MS. NICOL: Lack of foundation, calls 4 for .speculation. 5 Q- The question was: That project number# 6 what does that mean# 452-N14? 7 MS. NICOL: Same objection. 8 A. Each group of is designated by projects 9 by numbers. 10 Q- The first three numbers# 452# do you 11 know what those mean? 12 A. No. 13 Si- The second group of numbers# N14# do 14 you know iwhat those mean? 15 A. No, I don't. 16 Q- Did your group use the same sort of 17 numbering system as exists here on page 1 of IS Exhibit 3? 19 A. We used a numbering system for some of 20 our reports and some of our projects. A varied 31 time they related to an accounting procedure. 32 Q- Would you describe that accounting 23 procedure to me as best you remember it. 24 MS. NICOL: Lack of foundation, calls 2 5 for ,speculation# well beyond the scope of the 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola Martino deposition. MR. HEALY: That would lead to discovery of admissible evidence. MS. NICOL: I doubt it# since we are talking about polyester-based resins and he already told you he doesn't have familiarity with this document or contents. MR. HEALY: That's not what I was 10 asking. I was asking about his recollection 11 of how the numbering related to Union Carbide 12 accounting procedure in that period of time. IS Q- Sir# do you have a memory of it? 14 A. I have. I have of what I did in ray 15 group. 16 Q- What did you do in your group? 17 A. I had project numbers and tried to 13 account for the cost for those major projects so 19 we could evaluate what the value of that work was. 20 Q. Inviting your attention to Exhibit 3# 31 page 2# do you have any memory or recollection 22 that ethylene glycol assisted or helped 23 end users -- end users or manufacturers -- 24 with the utilization of Union Carbide asbestos 35 in connection with the viscosity of the 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 phenolic resins used by manufacturers? MS. CLARK: Objection. Ambiguous. 4 A. How did we get the phenolics from 5 polyester? I don't understand that. 6 Q. Did ethylene glycol assist the 7 utilization of -- 8 Sir, do you have a memory as to whether 9 or not ethylene glycol assisted manufacturers in 10 using Calidria asbestos in the manufacture of 11 polyesters? 12 MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. 13 A. I thought I answered before I have 14 no -- I have no knowledge of what was being done 15 in the polyester industry nor am I familiar with 16 the work that the Calidria people did to sell 17 their Calidria asbestos for this use# so I can't 18 answer that question. 19 Q. All right. So you are telling me you 20 don't have anything to do with the Calidria 21 division of -- 22 A. There was no polyester division. 23 Vistron Corporation was a customer who made 24 polyester. The polyester has nothing to do with 25 Union Carbide except it was a test run for one of 42 43 44 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 their customers, one of Calidria corporate 3 division customers, by them. If you notice 4 Niagara Falls, New York, that's where they were 5 located. It has nothing to do with phenolics. 6 MS. NICOL: There's no question pending. 8 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. 9 Q- Turning your attention to Exhibit 4, 10 the first page -- 11 At the bottom right-hand corner it 12 should say 3407 after a long series of numbers. 13 Are you with me? 14 Exhibit 4, the first page, bottom 15 right-hand corner, "UCA" followed by letters and 16 numbers, do you see that? 17 A. Yes. IS Q- And the last three numbers should read 19 3407. 20 A. Yes. 31 Q- Are you on the same page? 32 A. Yes. 23 Q. Do you know what this document is? 24 A. It's a -- sales scrolls. 3 5 Q- Is this from December 1964? 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 A. Yes. 3 fl Looking at the upper left-hand column, 4 it looks like other customers were crossed off or 5 redacted but you can read "Northrop Grumman." 6 Do you see that? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q- Or "Northrop Corporation." 9 It says "ethylene glycol." Do you see 10 that? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q- Would you have been involved in that 13 sale? 14 A. No. 15 Q- Do you know what use the ethylene 16 glycol was used for at Northrop Corporation? 17 A. No, I do not. IS Let me clarify. There were no sales of 19 ethylene glycol that year it's on the list but 20 there wasi no pounds or dollars shown on that 31 sheet. 32 Q- What does the entry "ethylene glycol" 23 mean to you when you read that sales sheet? 24 A. The entry means that they bought 2 5 ethylene glycol at some time but at this year did 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 not order any. 3 Q. In the bottom right-hand corner where 4 it says UCA SB is that Union Carbide's asbestos 5 repository number, if you know? 6 A. I don't know. They -- 7 The code down at the bottom? 8 Q. Right. 9 A. I don't know what that code means. 10 Q- What would you call this? A sales 11 scroll? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q- Did this sales scroll relate to the 14 Calidria. asbestos division? 15 A. No. This is chemicals and plastics 16 division. 17 Q- Inviting your attention to the next 13 entry, " Northrop Corporation." 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. C-e-l-l-o-s-o-l-v-e acetate. 21 A. Right. 22 Q- Do you know what that's used for? 23 A. It's a solvent. More specific than 24 that, I don't know. 25 Q- The entry after that is ethyl acetate 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 Do you know what that's used for? 3 A. No, I don't. 4 Q. The next entry is Tergitol. Do you see 5 that? 6 A. Yes, Tergitol. 7 Q. What is that used for? 8 A. That is a detergent. 9 Q- Do you have any connection with the 10 sale of these chemicals to Northrop? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Do you know of anybody who would have a 13 connection with the sale of these chemicals to 14 Northrop in the period of time 1960 to 1974? 15 A. The chemical sales department. 16 There were two divisions, chemical 17 sales and plastic sales. The chemical sales would 13 be responsible for those sales to Northrop, and I 15 don't see any sales that year of any of those 20 products on that sheet, so... 21 Northrop was not a very -- was a very 22 small customer. 23 Q. Of the chemical sales or plastic sales 24 or both? 25 A. From what I see here, both. 46 47 48 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 Q- What plastic did they buy on that 3 sheet? 4 A. None there. 5 Q- Turning to the next page, what I have 6 ends at 783. Is that the next page of Exhibit 4 7 to you? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q- Any sales there for the plastics 10 division that you see? 11 A. No. 12 Q. That*s from December 1965? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q- Turning to -- the next page I have 15 is -- ends -- Exhibit 4 ends 737. Are we on the 16 same page? 17 A. Yes. IS Q- And that is year ending December 1966? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Do you see any sales to Northrop 31 Grumman or Northrop Corporation from the plastics 32 division? 23 A. No. 24 Wait a minute. 3 5 No, that would be chemicals. No. 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 Q- Next page, what I have ends in the 3 right-hand column "738." Are you with me? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q- That's December 1966? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Any sales to Northrop Corporation in 8 El Segundo, California on the left-hand upper 9 portion of the page. Do you see that? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Are those sales from the chemical 12 division or any sales there from the plastic 13 division? 14 A. None from the plastic division. And 15 those sales are pretty small. 16 Q. Next page, 178, are you on that page? 17 A. Yes. IS Q- It has to do with sales. That says 19 "Northrop.* 20 A. Yes. 31 Q- Are those sales from the chemical 32 division or are there any sales from the plastics 23 division? 24 A. I see none from the plastic division. 2 5 Q- Thank you. 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 Next page, on the bottom right-hand 3 corner "654:." Are we on the same page? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q- Inviting your attention to what I think 6 was at one time yellow highlight, to "Northrop 7 Corporation in southern California," are you with 8 me? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q- Do you see any sales from any -- from 11 the plastic: division? 12 A. Parylene products, they would be from 13 the plastics division. 14 Q- What are parylene products? 15 A. That is a specialty polymer used to 16 coat electrical compounds. It's -- it gives it 17 excellent -- it gives them excellent water 13 resistance and excellent electrical properties. 15 Q. In the period of time 1960 to 1974, did 20 parylene products -- did any of them contain 31 asbestos made by Union Carbide? 22 A. No. 23 Q. What were they made of? 24 A. It was a -- the exact chemical 35 composition I can't recall but it was a polymer. 49 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 plastic polymer. 3 Q. Inviting your attention to the next 4 page, on the bottom right-hand corner should be 5 "655." Are you with me? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Upper Northrop, Hooper, California. 8 Are you with me? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q- Is that a chemical or plastic sales? 11 A. The triethylene glycol there were no 12 sales. The next looks that's a chemical sales. 13 Q- The Calidria asbestos, would that be 14 the plastics or chemical or something else? 15 A. That would be something else. 16 Q. On to the next page. The bottom 17 right-hand corner is "170." Are you with me? 13 A. Yes. 15 Q. Inviting your attention to the gray. 20 once yellow, highlight -- 21 Are you with me? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Looking at those entries, are those all 24 chemical divisions? 25 A. The microballons were plastic division 50 52 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 but there were no sales of that. Epoxy solid 3 resins were the plastic division, but there were 4 no sales of that either. It looks like the 5 reference to parylene, I don't see any sales of 6 that. Polyox, that is a plastic division product. 7 They bought 10 pounds. 8 Q. So to the right of Polyox it says 9 10 pounds in May. Is that right? 10 A. Yes, and the -- 11 Q. Polyox, does that contain asbestos? 12 A. No, it don't. 13 Q- The next page is "171," upper left-hand 14 column. Are you with me? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q- Are any of those plastic sales? 17 A. No. IS Q- Next page is "172." Are you with me? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Are any of those plastic sales or can 31 you tell what it is? 32 A. I can't even tell what it is, but it 23 doesn't show a sales anyway. It looks like one 24 for Northrop Corporation prime total. I don't 25 know what that is. 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 Q- So there's some court of code, 40705? 3 A. That would imply one pound. 4 Q. One of pound or one of time? 5 A. Usually those are pounds and underneath 6 they are dollars. 7 Q. Inviting your attention to the next 8 page. Are you with me? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q- Do you see any plastic sales there? 11 A. There are raicroballons, oxy-solid 12 resins. parylene listed and Polyox listed but no 13 sales. 14 Q- It says "CBWX 6,000," and in March they 15 bought 2000 pounds of this? 16 A. Carbo-wax. It's a low molecular weight 17 that's sold by chemicals. IS Q- Next page is 669. Are you with me? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Looking at the left-hand column, do you 21 see any plastic sales? 22 A. I see plastics listed. The vinyl type 23 resin is listed but no sales. Epoxy resin PRR 24 42305 is listed 19 pounds. Phenoxy polymers. 25 that's a plastic division product. They bought 50 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 pounds. All the rest are chemicals. 3 Q. Do any of the plastics you listed 4 contain asbestos, to your knowledge? 5 A. No, they do not. I said they did not. 6 Q- The next page, 444, are you with me? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Left-hand column, are any of those from 9 the plastics division, T-e-t-r-a, E-t-h-e-x? 10 A. The ERL. 11 Q. Did that contain asbestos? 12 A. No. 13 Q- Next page, 445. Are you with me? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Are any of those from the plastics 16 division? 17 A. The Polyox would be. No sales shown. 13 Q- Did that contain asbestos? 15 A. No. No sales shown either. 20 And epoxy resin, again no sales. Again 21 epoxy resin, no sales. There are two of them. 22 All the rest were chemicals. 23 Q. The items in the plastic division, do 24 any of those contain asbestos that you just 25 mentioned? 53 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 A. No. 3 Q. Turning to the next page, 446, are we 4 at the same page? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q- Are any of those sales or items listed 7 from the plastics division? 8 A. No, none of them. 9 Q- 536, are any of the sales to Northrop 10 from the plastics division? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Were any of those asbestos-containing. 13 as far as you know? 14 A. As far as I know, they are not. 15 Q. Turning to the next page, 853, it looks 16 like a mention of Tergitol. Is that it? 17 A. Yes, and that's a detergent and there 13 are no sales. 15 Q. Turning to page 854, are any of those a 20 sale to Northrop from the plastics division? 21 A. No. 22 Q- Turning to page 172, are you with me? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Are any of those a sale from the 25 plastics division? 54 55 56 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 A. No. 3 fl- Turning to the next page, 173, it looks 4 like a s ingle entry. It's a total; is that right? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q- Turning to page 906, are you with me? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q- Are any of those items sold to Northrop 9 frora the plastics division? 10 A. No, none. 11 Q- The powdered 6,000 flake, do you know 12 what that is referring to? 13 A. That's carbo-wax and that's a 14 polyethylene glycol, a low molecular weight wax. 15 Q- Do you know why they call it powdered? 16 A. Well, it was -- you know, it's just 17 like any wax. You have to grind it up into a fine IS powder in order to use it or you have to melt it. 19 There*s also flake. 20 Q- Turning to the next page, 868 -- 31 MR. HEALY: I'm going to ask Miss Clark 32 or Miss Nicol, it looks like everything is 23 blacked out. 24 MS. CLARK; At the very bottom the 3 5 company name is listed, but I would also 8/31/2005 Marlino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 state for the record we are now up to 1976, 3 30 I think we are going beyond the time frame 4 that this plaintiff was there, in any event. 5 but we had provided these records for a few 6 years beyond. 7 Q- Skip past 868, skip past 869, skip past 8 403, and now we are looking at 435. 9 Are you with me? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q- That's from December 1970? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q- Do you have any information or belief 14 that sales scroll refers to a plastics division 15 sale? 16 MS. CLARK: I believe that's 1978. 17 It's just the copying quality. But these all IS go in year order, to my knowledge. You will 19 see the one before that is *77 and after '79. 20 MR. HEALY: Okay. 31 A. Is there a question on that? 32 I'm not familiar with A 174. It's not 23 a plastic product. 24 Q- Mr. Martino, inviting your attention to 2 5 your earlier testimony regarding BMG 5440, 5303, 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 3700, et cetera, do you remember that? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. If I recall your testimony, those 5 particular moldings contained raw asbestos as a 6 component: ingredient. 7 MS. CLARK; Objection. Misstates his 8 testimony. 9 Q- Well, please correct me. Did they 10 contain asbestos or not? 11 A. They did contain asbestos. 12 Q. And it was a Carey asbestos? 13 A. Carey was our main supplier. 14 Q- And the remainder of the component 15 ingredients were epoxies and resins to make the 1c molding? 17 MS. CLARK: Objection, raischaracterizes 13 his testimony. 15 A. No. You said epoxy. We were not using 20 epoxy to make molding materials. 21 Q- You were using something other than 22 just asbestos? 23 A. We were using phenolic 24 phenol-formaldehyde resins which we call phenolic 25 resins. 57 8/31/2005 Marlino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 Q- Now, this particular group of phenolic 3 moldings -- the BMG 5440, et cetera -- when Union 4 Carbide sold them to a customer, did they go out 5 in bags in pellets or what form did the product 6 material have when it left Union Carbide? 7 A. Granular form, like a coarse sand. 8 Q. Was it made in New Jersey or the West 9 Coast or where was it made? 10 A. In New Jersey. 11 Q. Was coloring added? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q- Do you have any level of information or 14 belief that the granular form was shipped in bags 15 or boxes ? How was it shipped? 16 A. Bags and gaylords. They were cardboard 17 boxes that would hold a thousand pounds. 13 Q- Do you have level of information or 15 belief that any of these asbestos-containing 20 products -- the BMG 5440, 5303, et cetera -- were 21 used by subcontractors of Northrop, if you know? 22 A. I don't know. 23 Q. Could have been used or might not have 24 been used but you don't know? 25 A. No, I don't know. I don't know where 56 59 60 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 our customers sold our products. 3 Q. What are the names of the customers 4 that you remember in the 1960 to 1974 time frame 5 that were buying these products in bulk? 6 MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation, overbroad. 8 MS. NICOL: Beyond the scope of the 9 deposition. And we went down this road 10 about an hour and a half ago, this exact 11 road, so -- 12 MR. HEALY: It's discoverable and I 13 think it's proper. 14 MS. NICOL: How is it proper? Tell me 15 where it falls under the scope of this 16 deposition. Not one you would like to have, 17 but this scope of this deposition. Show me 18 and I would be happy to allow it. I just 19 don't see it. 20 MR. HEALY: Page 6, line 22, sub T as 21 in Tom. 22 MS. NICOL: Not under the scope of the 23 deposition we agreed to relatingto Northrop 24 and relating to the aerospace industry, and I 25 thought you already asked him questions about 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 the aerospace industry. 3 MR. HEALY: I'm looking at an e-mail 4 from Farah Nicol to Marty Morris and I don't 5 see that limitation. I see other things you 6 talked about, but I don't see that. It's in our deposition notice and it's 8 discoverable. I want to know who you-all 9 sold these cardboard gaylords and bags of 10 granular form to. 11 MS. NICOL: Well, I don't know what 12 e-mail you are looking at, but an e-mail I 13 sent to Marty Morris yesterday at 3:12 14 states, "Similarly, you have agreed to limit 15 the scope of this deposition to the Northrop 16 site plaintiff worked at from 1967 to 1974 17 and to those years." That was the point of 18 reciting that stipulation at the beginning of 19 this deposition. 20 MR. HEALY: Why don't we take a break 21 and let's you and I chat. 22 (Recess taken.) 23 Q. Going back to Exhibit 4 for just a 24 moment, what did you look at in terras of documents 25 in preparation for your testimony today? 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 A. The notice of deposition and the sales 3 scrolls that we were going over, and my work 4 history. 5 Q- What efforts did you make to ascertain 6 whether or not asbestos-containing phenolics were 7 sold to Northrop during the period of time in 8 which Mr . Coppola worked there? 9 A. I went over the sales scrolls. 10 Q- Did you go over more documents than 11 Exhibit 4 or just Exhibit 4? 12 A. Exhibit -- I don't have a number on 13 this. I assume Exhibit 4 is the sales scrolls. 14 Q- Yes. 15 A. Yes, that's it. 16 Si- And if those sales scrolls had the 17 asbestos -containing phenolic plastic sales, you 13 would have seen them there or expected to see them 17 there? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q- Now, what we have been provided are 22 obviously excerpts that were blacked out or 23 redacted from some larger, I assume much larger. 24 document . Is that true? 25 A. Yes. 61 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 Q- Have you reviewed the larger document 3 or know how -- 4 Let me ask you. Have you reviewed the 5 larger document? 6 A. No, I have not. 7 Q. Do you know how Exhibit 4 came into 8 being? Did somebody in the plastics division go 9 and take it out or how it came about? 10 A. I received it from Mayer, Brown, Rowe & 11 Maw. 12 Q. And the Mayer law firm, it's your 13 belief they obtained all of the sales to Northrop 14 and that *s how we arrived at Exhibit 4? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. What efforts have you made to make sure 17 that had occurred? Did you talk to someone in the 13 Mayer law firm? 13 A. I'm not quite clear on that. What did 20 I do to :make sure what? 21 Q- That we have all of the documents that 22 show sales to Northrop. 23 A. That is what I was told, that this is 24 what was available. 25 Q- Who told you? 62 63 64 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 2 A. Kate. 3 Q- What did she say? 4 A. She said she was e-mailing me the 5 scrolls with the sales to Northrop over this 6 period of time. 7 Q. And this is about your twelfth 8 deposition or so in an asbestos injury case? 9 A. Eleventh or twelfth, yes. 10 Q- Has that been the process before, that 11 the Mayer law firm goes and looks through 12 documents and then gives you something to look at 13 and you testify from that? 14 A. No. 15 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague and 16 ambiguous. 17 A. No, it's not. It varies with the case. 18 Q- If you were for your own purposes 19 trying to ascertain whether Union Carbide sold 20 asbestos- containing phenolics, do you have a level 31 of confidence this would have been the right way 32 to go about it? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. You get hold of the Mayer firm and they 2 5 find the Northrop entries. 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 Are you confident this is a true, fair 3 and accurate document of the Northrop sales? 4 A. Yes, I do. 5 Q. Now, the Calidria division, would they 6 appear on the same scroll or are you completely 7 unfamiliar with their operation? 8 A. I'ra completely unfamiliar with their 9 operation. 10 Q. If the task were to discover whether or 11 not the Calidria division made or placed these 12 sales to Northrop of RG 244 or RG 100, et cetera, 13 you would not be the person most knowledgeable on 14 that. Have I got that right? 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q. Do you know who would? 17 A. No, I don't. 18 Q. I want to ask you a series of questions 19 involving the asbestos-containing phenolics, the 20 BMG 5440, et cetera. Do you have those in mind? 31 A. Yes. 32 Q. Now, with respect to those 23 asbestos-containing phenolics that Union Carbide 24 sold, I want you to have in mind the period of 25 time 1960 to 1974. Do you have that period in 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 2 mind? 3 A. I thought I was limited to '67 to '74. 4 Q. That's fine. We can limit it that way. 5 I thought you had been group manager from '60 to 6 T74. 7 A. I was. 8 Q. Okay. But looking at *67 to '74, 9 because that's where my client was, do you have 10 information or belief that my client, a machinist 11 and toolmaker, would have encountered phenolic 12 molding made by Union Carbide that contains 18 asbestosi in that period of time? 14 MS. CLARK: Objection, foundation. 15 Q. My question is do you have a level of 16 information or belief: "1 have no idea 17 whatsoever" or "He could not possibly" or 13 "Absolutely should have." 19 MS. CLARK: Same objection, and vague. 20 Q. Do you have a level of information or 21 belief? 22 A. I don't know what your machinist was 23 exposed to, so I can't answer that question. I 24 have no idea. 25 Q- These moldings that contained asbestos 65 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 had as their virtue complicated shapes. Have I 3 got that right? 4 MS. CLARK: Can I hear the question 5 again. 6 (Question read.) Q. Mr. Martino, if I understand your 8 testimony, the virtue ofasbestos-containing 9 moldings was the application or the use for 10 making items that had complicated shapes. Have I 11 got that right? 12 A. No, you don't. The virtue of phenolic 13 molding materials in general is that they can be 14 formed into complicated shapes, eliminating many 15 operational -- in other words, materials it would 16 require more work to make that shape. And that 17 virtue is a result of the phenolic molding 18 material, not the asbestos. It just sohappens if 19 you havean asbestos in there, you can do the same 20 thing. 21 Q. All right. What role, from your 22 standpoint, did the asbestos play? Was it a 23 binder or made it thicker, or it had other 24 qualities that assisted in making these moldings? 25 A.It was a filler and its prime purpose 66 67 68 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 was to give the product more heat resistance. 3 Q. In 1974 did Union Carbide make 4 asbestos-containing moldings? 5 A. They made some, much less than in 6 earlier years. 7 Q. Was there a particular month or year 8 you have in mind where Union Carbide dropped off 9 its asbestos molding business to some considerable 10 degree? 11 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. 12 A. It dropped off in 1974 when the 13 decision was made to go out of the business. 14 Q. In the period of time 1967, *68, *69, 15 *70, *71, *72, *73 were the sales, roughly 16 speaking, in the same volume? 17 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. 18 Q. I'm referring to asbestos-containing 19 moldings. 20 MS. CLARK: Same objection. 31 A. The same -- the same volume as in 1974? 32 Q. No, as each other, *67, *68, *68, *69 23 into *70 up to *73. 24 A. From 1970 to 1974 we started removing 25 the asbestos from our phenolic molding materials. 8/31/2005 Marlino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 so that the sales of asbestos phenolic molding 3 materials would have decreased year by year. 4 Q. From 1970 to 1974 when you say sales 5 were decreasing year by year, was the 6 asbestos-containing molding -- was there a 7 particular awareness of health hazards to humans? 8 Is that why you started taking it out? 9 MS. NICOL: Beyond the scope of the 10 deposition. 11 Q. Is that why? 12 A. I thought that it was beyond the scope 13 of the deposition and I wasn't supposed to answer 14 that. 15 THE WITNESS: Is that correct? 16 MS. NICOL: It is beyond the scope of 17 the deposition. 18 THE WITNESS: Am I to answer? 19 MS. NICOL: You can go ahead and 20 answer. 31 A. The reason was initially that we wanted 32 to consolidate our operation, our manufacturing 23 operation, so that all asbestos molding products 24 could be made on one manufacturing line and 3 5 those facilities could be upgraded with the 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 latest technology to give our people working in 3 that area the safest working environment it could 4 get. We met the OSHA requirements but we 5 anticipated that those OSHA requirements were 6 going to change and that we had to make even 7 further improvements. 8 So to do that, we had to start 9 eliminating asbestos products and reduce the 10 amount that -- so that we could go to one 11 production line. Subsequently we determined 12 through our own tests that what we thought was -- 13 Well, that was the main reason why we 14 started that program removing the asbestos. Later 15 it was to reduce any hazards that might have been 16 found in customers* plants. 17 Q. We talked a little bit about the uses 18 of asbestos-containing phenolic resins as knife 19 handles or buttons and different types of uses. 20 Are you aware of any component parts that would be 21 used in aircrafts that would have 22 asbestos-containing phenolic resins? 23 A. No, I am not. 24 Q. Do you have a level of information or 25 belief, using Union Carbide's language from its 69 8/31/2005 Marlino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 sales literature, that --about any companies that 3 Union Carbide called "fiberintermediates"? 4 I will start that question all over 5 again. 6 Have you ever heard of the phrase 7 "fiber intermediates"? 8 A. No, I have not. 9 Q. Have you ever heard of the phrase 10 "plastic intermediate phenolics"? 11 A. Plastic intermediate phenolics? No, it 12 doesn't make any sense to me. 13 Q. I'm going to represent to you that 14 in our review of marketing sales documents from 15 1974 from Union Carbide, this was the language 16 Union Carbide used to identify specific markets. 17 Are you at all familiar with a market 18 denoted "thermosetting molding materials"? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Have you reviewed any customer lists or 21 sales documents under the thermosetting materials 22 documents of Union Carbide to ascertain if they 23 were used by Northrop? 24 A. The thermoset molding materials, 25 phenolic molding materials are a subclass of 70 71 72 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 thermoset molding materials. And that therraoset 3 molding material encompasses a broad range of 4 polymers, many of which we didn't make like the 5 polyesters and the raelmomeans and the urheas, so 6 my review is based on the thermoset molding 7 materials which we manufactured. 8 Q. Were you aware in the 1967 to 1974 9 time frame of any campaign by Union Carbide to 10 market phenolics to the aviation industry? 11 A. No, I do not. 12 Q. Same question but this time to the 13 industry -- that of maintaining aircraft, aircraft 14 maintenance products. 15 A. No. 16 MR. HEALY: For the record, I reserve 17 the right to redeposethis witness or move to 18 compel to redepose thiswitness to ascertain 19 customer lists of the plastics division and 20 any other items contained in the deposition 21 notice, as I have been foreclosed from 22 conducting a useful examination that would be 23 calculated to lead to the evidence that would 24 show phenolics that ended up in my clients* 25 hands at Northrop. 8/31/2005 Marlino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 Today we had an order to show cause in 3 front of Judge Green with respect to 4 Northrop*s deposition but the items that, 5 assuming we do get them, are going to be of 6 limited utility if I can't discover or ascertain intermediaries. 8 With that, I allow counsel to inquire. 9 Anything? Anybody on the phone want to ask 10 this witness questions? 11 MS. NICOL: If the other defendants 12 don't have questions, I need to respond to 13 your statement. 14 You and I had an off-the-record 15 discussion a short time ago where I told you 16 despite the fact that plaintiffs had in 17 writing agreed to limit this deposition to 18 the Northrop site the plaintiff worked at 19 during 1967 to *74, I have been more than 20 generous in allowing you a broad scale of 21 inquiry beyond that so that you can satisfy 22 yourself with regard to any and all 23 information that that would be relevant to 24 Mr. Coppola's case based on the deposition 25 notice. And I specifically told you that I 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 was allowing you that because I did not want 3 you to get out of this deposition and simply 4 on the basis that you couldn't ask what you 5 wanted to ask. 6 You are welcome to continue with the deposition. There's still more time for you 8 to continue with it. And if you are 9 adjourning it, you are adjourning it based on 10 your completing your questioning of the 11 witness. I believe he's answered all of the 12 questions for you relating to intermediaries 13 covered by the categories in your deposition 14 notice. The aircraft industry and the like 15 were all asked of him and I believe he 16 answered those questions for you. 17 So if you adjourn this deposition at 18 this point, then you are done with taking 19 this deposition, and that's your choice. 20 Q. Mr. Martino, if I recall your 21 testimony -- and I ask you to have this in mind. 22 The asbestos-containing phenolics, 23 BMG 5400, 5443, do you have that in mind? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Is that a "yes"? 73 8/31/2005 Marlino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 A. Yes, it is. 3 Q. And you have in mind as you sit here 4 today some of the larger customers for those 5 products, right? 6 A. I can remember some of them, yes. 7 Q. Who are they? 8 A. Square D. 9 Now, this is at various periods of 10 time. They didn't buy every year. 11 Cutler Hammer, who we sold to. 12 GE in Bloomington, now, they bought 13 more than just asbestos phenolic molding. They 14 bought all-asbestos and non-asbestos. There's no 15 one that bought exclusively just asbestos molding 16 materials. 17 Leviton. 13 Those are the ones that come to mind. 17 Westinghouse for a certain period of 20 time. 21 Q. Do you know to what use Square D used 22 the granular asbestos phenolics that you sold to 23 them? 24 MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation, 25 assumes facts not in evidence. 74 75 76 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 MR. HEALY: I asked him to what use, 3 did he know. 4 A. Electrical switch gear primarily. 5 Q. Do you know if any of that was used in 6 avionics or by Northrop Grumman? 7 A. No, I do not. 8 Q. Do you know to what use Cutler Hammer 9 used asbestos-containing phenolic resins that you 10 sold from *67 to *74? 11 A. Similar to Square D. Various 12 electrical parts. 13 Q. Do you have a level of information or 14 belief as to whether or not Northrop Grumman used 15 Cutler Hammer? 16 A. No, I don't. 17 Q. GE Bloomington was a customer of Union 18 Carbide for the asbestos-containing phenolics. 19 What did they use it for, if you know? 20 A. I don't know in their case. 31 Q. Leviton. L-e-v-i-t-o-n? 32 A. Right. 23 Q. They were a customer of yours, the 24 plastics division at Union Carbide, in purchasing 25 asbestos-containing phenolics. Do you know what 8/31/2005 Marlino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 they purchased from you for? 3 A. Leviton, I don't know if their 4 purchases were asbestos-filled phenolic molding 5 materials. They bought phenolic molding materials 6 from us. Those were for wall plates, receptacles, 7 electrical receptacles in the homes, switch gear 8 in the homes, main power terminal. 9 That's all I recall. 10 Q. Westinghouse was a customer of Union 11 Carbide plastics, right? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. To your knowledge,they used 14 asbestos-containing phenolics for their electrical 15 switch gear operation? 16 A. Again, I don't know. 17 Now, the customers I gave you, they 18 might have used asbestos-containing molding 19 materials or not. I don't know that. All I can 20 say, they were large customers of ours who bought 21 our phenolic molding materials. And to ascertain 22 whether or not they bought phenolic molding 23 materials that contained asbestos, I would have to 24 check the records. 25 Q. What records wouldyou check? 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 A. Sales scrolls and then the formulation 3 sheets. 4 Q. Would it be fair to say that if, for 5 example, Northrop Grumman was purchasing 6 Westinghouse electrical gear, if we were to 7 ascertain whether or not that switching gear 8 contained asbestos-containing phenolics by 9 Union Carbide, we would have you look at the 10 sales scrolls and formulation sheets from 1967 to 11 *74 from Westinghouse? Have I got that right? 12 A. No. 13 MS. CLARK: Objection, vague. 14 A. These customers didn't buy just from 15 us. They bought from other manufacturers of 16 phenolic molding materials. So just establishing 17 that a particular part if it did contain asbestos 18 came from Westinghouse and therefore came from 19 Bakelite, that doesn't follow. You can't tell the 20 difference between a GE or a Durez or Plastic 21 Engineering molding materials than theirs and 22 ours. So it doesn't follow just because it's 23 phenolic and it was made by one of our customers 24 that we were the ones who supplied it. 25 Q. Fair enough. 77 8/31/2005 Marlino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 In your business in the period of time 3 1967 to 1974, there were other companies that made 4 asbestos -containing phenolics sold to your 5 customers, right? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And your competitors, who were they? 8 A. Durez, Plastic Engineering, General 9 Electric , Reichhold. Then there were small 10 manufacturers: Fiberite, Rogers Corporation. 11 Those were the main ones. 12 Q. How do I spell Durez? 13 A. D-u-r-e-z. 14 Q- And where are they out of? 15 A. Tonawanda, New York. 16 Q. Plastic Engineering? 17 A. Sheboygan, Wisconsin I think. 13 Q- Which division of GE? 15 A. The plastic division in Pittsfield. 20 Q. Where is their plastic division? 31 A. I think Pittsfield, Massachusetts. 22 Q- Reichhold, R-e-i-c-h-o-l-d? 23 A. I think R-e-i-c-h-h-o-l-d. 24 Q. Where are they located or were they 25 located? 78 79 80 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 A. I don't recall. I think it's in 3 New Jersey but I'm not sure. And I don't even 4 know if they are still in the business. 5 Q. F-i-b-e-r-i-t-e? 6 A. Yes. 7 They were in Wisconsin, I believe. 8 Q. Rogers Corporation? 9 A. They are in Massachusetts. 10 Q. Like it sounds, Rogers? 11 A. Rogers, R-o-g-e-r-s. 12 Q. Would it be fair to say if you add up 13 the volume of sales of your competitors from '67 14 to '74 -- GE, Rogers Corporation, all of the ones 15 listed -- that they were less than 50 percent of 16 the asbestos-containing phenolics sold to your 17 customers in that period of time? 18 MS. NICOL: Objection, foundation. 19 Also calls for speculation about the other 20 entities. Well beyond the scope of the 31 deposition and well beyond any discovery, 32 relevant discovery given you are trying to 23 get at marketeer issues. 24 Q. You may answer, please. 25 A. I don't quite understand. Less than 8/31/2005 Marlino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 50 percent of the total of asbestos-filled molding 3 materials which were sold to the industry? 4 MS. NICOL: You need to tell me how 5 this even fits within the broadest scope of 6 your deposition notice. I don't see how it does. I*ve been more than generous with 8 giving you leeway, but I'm not quite sure how 9 this fits. 10 Q. Mr. Martino? 11 A. Yes. Could you rephrase the question? 12 Because I just don't quite understand. 13 Q. Sure. 14 MS. NICOL: I'm going to need to have 15 an understanding from Mr. Healy before we 16 proceed much further because this is not 17 relevant discovery, especially given the L.A. 18 general orders on this topic. 19 MR. HEALY: I think you know it is. 20 If Northrop Grumman is buying Square D, 21 Westinghouse and GE electrical switch gear 22 and my machinist client is grinding on those 23 molding materials, then the question becomes 24 did those contain materials -- was it more 25 likely than not Union Carbide. That's the 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 relevance. I think it's obvious what the 3 relevance is. 4 My question to this witness, if he 5 knows -- he might not know, but if he does: 6 Q. If Square D is making electrical 7 switching gear using asbestos-containing phenolic 8 resin, do you have a level of confidence that it's 9 more likely than not Union Carbide, given what 10 your competition was doing in terms of sales at 11 that time? 12 MS. NICOL: Same objection. Beyond the 13 scope of the deposition and beyond relevant 14 discovery given. 15 MR. HEALY: Are you instructing him not 16 to answer? 17 MS. NICOL: My objection. Go forward, 13 Steve. 10 Q. Sir, can I have an answer? 20 A. Let me -- I think you need a 31 clarification first. 22 A molded part that is sold to a 23 customer is sold in such a way it does not need 24 drilling or grinding or machining. It has the 25 holes drilled in or molded in. It has all of the 81 8/31/2005 Marlino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 attachments to it. It's just ready for assembly. 3 That's why you mold it, so you don't 4 have to do all of these other separate operations. 5 So I don't understand why your machinist should 6 have to machine or drill or sand a molded part. Q. Well, that is a great question, but 8 it's not really -- 9 It happens all the time, you have -- 10 A. What do you mean it happens all the 11 time? Show me a molder. 12 Q. Who makes their own tool so he can 13 calibrate electronics? I mean that happens all 14 the time. 15 A. And theywould use a molded part for 16 that. That's ridiculous. You go to a molded part 17 because you don't want to machine and drill it and 18 tap it. 19 Q. This is interesting -- 20 A. It's notinteresting, it's a fact. So 21 let's get back on track here. 22 Q. Exactly. The question is: If someone 23 is encountering grinding of one of these parts, 24 one of thesemolded asbestos-containing molded 25 phenolics that Square D or GE Bloomington or 82 83 84 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 Westinghouse or Cutler Hammer made in the '67-'74 3 period of time, is it true it's more likely than 4 not that Union Carbide phenolic resin? 5 A. It is not. It is not. We were not a 6 major supplier and that doesn't follow that it 7 would automatically be Union Carbide product. And I get back to my point: You do not 9 need to machine or drill or do anything to a 10 phenolic molded part. And if you are doing it, 11 you are being very inefficient because that is not 12 the purpose of making a molded part. 13 Q. I don't want to argue with you on how 14 your products got used by people out in the field 15 but -- 16 A. Well, if that's what they aredoing, 17 that is not what they are supposed to be doing. 18 Q. Fair enough. 19 Now, the question I have to you is: As 20 group manager, did you have to study what your 21 competition was doing in terms of market share? 22 A. We tried to determine what our share 23 was versus theirs, yes. 24 Q. What was your share of the 25 asbestos-containing phenolic resin market in 1967 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 in relation to Durez, Plastic Engineering, GE, 3 et cetera? 4 MS. NICOL: Objection. Asked and 5 answered. I think he already said they were 6 not a major player. 7 MS. CLARK: And beyond the scope. 8 Q. You may answer, sir. 9 A. We were less than 20 percent in 1967 10 and that dropped down to 11 percent in '73, and we 11 were down under 10 percent in '74. 12 Q. What part of Union Carbide kept track 13 of the percentages? Was it the marketing 14 department or you had to keep track? 15 A. No, this was -- the marketing 16 department was the department that tried to 17 compile its figures. 18 Q. On a different topic, have you ever 19 traveled to Los Angeles, California as part of 20 your work at Union Carbide? 31 A. Not when I was working in the phenolic 32 molding material area. I traveled to California 23 when I was in other areas. 24 Q. Do you have any knowledge or 25 information or belief of contractors in the 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 Hawthorne/LAX/El Segundo, California area that 3 were purchasing asbestos-containing phenolic 4 resins in the 1967-1974 time period? 5 A. No, I do not. 6 MR. HEALY: Miss Clark and Miss Nicol, with that. Counsel, you may inquire. MS. NICOL: Why don't we take a 9 five-minute break and I will just have a few 10 questions probably. 11 (Recess taken.) 12 MS. McDOUGALL: I will order one copy 13 of the transcript. 14 EXAMINATION BY 15 MS. NICOL: 16 Q. This is Farah Nicol. Can you hear me? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. I know it's been along day for you 19 since it's past 5 o'clock. I just want to take a 20 few more minutes of your time and we'll go through 21 a couple of questions. 22 Mr. Martino, have you ever had any 23 communication with the plaintiff, Paul Coppola, in 24 this case? 25 A. No, I have not. 85 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 Q- Have you ever heard of his name before 3 this deposition? 4 A. No, I have not. 5 Q- And have you ever visited any Northrop 6 facility? 7 A. No I have not. 8 Q. Concerning this sales ledger of 9 Exhibit 4 that you've gone over in some detail 10 today, do you have that on hand? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. This sales ledger listed products 13 that were sold in the chemicals and the plastics 14 division. correct? 15 A. That's right. 16 Q. The products that were sold from the 17 plastics division to Northrop during the 1967 to 13 '74 time period would be listed on this sales 15 ledger; is that correct? 20 A. Yes, that's correct. 31 Q- Phenolics were part of the plastics 22 division; is that correct? 23 A. Yes, that is. 24 Q. So the sales of any asbestos-containing 35 phenolics , had there been any to Northrop during 86 87 88 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 the years 1967 to 1974, would have been listed on 3 this sales scroll if in fact they had been made; 4 is that correct? 5 A. That's correct. 6 Q- Because there are no entries for 7 phenolics listed on this Exhibit 4 sales scroll. 8 are you then confident that there would have been 9 no sales of asbestos-containing phenolic molding 10 moldings to Northrop during 1967 to 1974? 11 A. Phenolic molding materials? 12 Q- Yes. 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q- Are you in any way able to place, then. 15 any Union Carbide phenolics material in the 16 plaintiff Mr. Coppola's hands or work space at any 17 time during his employment at Northrop? IS A. No, I cannot. 19 Q- Are electrical panels made of molding 20 compound? 31 A. Panels, no. 32 Q- Are boards made of molding compound? 23 A. No, they are not. 24 Q- What are the panels made of? 3 5 A. They are made by a laminating process 8/31/2005 Marlino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 where in most cases it's paper which is dipped 3 into liquid phenolic resin and then dried and 4 partially cured. And those, those sheets, are cut 5 to various sizes, stacked and pressed together to 6 form a panel. Q. And it*s a similar production process 8 for boards? 9 A. Yes. There is one other process for 10 making boards where the resin and the wood pulp is 11 blended together and then that is rolled into a 12 board. It's just a different way of doing it. 13 Q. Would I be correct, then, in my 14 understanding that neither panels or boards would 15 have contained asbestos-containing phenolic 16 material? 17 A. Most likely they did not, because for 18 those uses paper substrates have adequate heat 19 resistance for most electrical applications. 20 Q. And they were made of resins, not 21 molding compounds? 22 A. We would have sold only the resins 23 which did not contain asbestos and not molding 24 compounds for that use. 25 Q. Mr. Martino, are you aware of anyone 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 else who would be more knowledgeable on the topic 3 of -- 4 A. On? 5 Q. On the topic ofanysale of Union 6 Carbide phenolic moldingmaterial toNorthrop from 7 1967 to *74. 8 A. No, I do not. 9 MS. NICOL: Thank you. No further 10 questions. 11 MR. HEALY: If we don*t hear from 12 anybody else, why don*t we go off the record 13 for just a moment. 14 (Recess taken.) 15 MS. NICOL: Three-day expedited 16 delivery for us. 17 MR. HEALY: We have had a discussion 18 off the record. Miss Nicol or Miss Clark, 19 will attempt to getting the transcript to 20 Mr. Martino for signature. If for whatever 21 reason an original signedversion of the 22 deposition transcript is not available at 23 trial, a certified copy may be used for all 24 purposes. The court reporter will be 25 relieved of her obligations underthe 89 8/31/2005 Marlino, Carlo in Coppola 1 Martino 2 California code of civil procedure to retain 3 possession and that possession will be 4 retained by Union Carbide. 5 Myself, we are ordering the transcript 6 on a normal basis. I understand Union Carbide is ordering on an expedited basis and 8 will pay for the cost. 9 Any other matters? 10 MS. NICOL: Yes. 11 You said the certified copy can be 12 for all admissible purposes? 13 MR. HEALY: Yes, so stipulated. 14 MR. KANTER: So stipulated. 15 MR. HEALY: Thank you very much. 16 (Time noted: 5:45 p.ra.) 17 13 10 20 31 CARLO F. MARTINO 22 23 24 Subscribed and sworn to before me this 25 day of 90 91 92 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 2 3 4 NOTARY PUBLIC 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 IB 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola 1 2 CERTIFICATE 3 4 STATE OF NEW YORK ) 5 ) ss.: 6 COUNTY OF NEW YORK ) 7 8 I, DIANE HARTY, a Notary Public within 9 and for the State of New York, do hereby 10 certify: 11 That CARLO F. MARTINO, the witness 12 whose deposition is hereinbefore set forth, 13 was duly sworn by me and that such deposition 14 is a true record ofthe testimony given by 15 such witness. 16 I further certify that I am not related 17 to any of the parties to this action by blood 18 or marriage; and that I am in no way 19 interested in the outcome of this matter. 20 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set 21 my hand this 6th day of September, 2005. 22 2 3 ________________________________ 24 DIANE HARTY 25 8/31/2005 Martino, Carlo in Coppola -----------------------------------------------INDEX--------------------------------------- WITNESS EXAMINATION BY PAGE CARLO F. MARTINO MR. HEALY 6 MS. NICOL 87 ---------------------------------- INFORMATION REQUESTS ------------------------- DIRECTIONS: None RULINGS: None TO BE FURNISHED: None REQUESTS: None MOTIONS: None 12 13 ----------------------------------------------- EXHIBITS -------------------------------------- Exhibit No. FOR I.D. 1-4 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Documents 6 93 94 95