Document 7MMg7Ng9v06bX2z6Jaznywa2R

C~y UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT DISTRICT OF MAINE 2 3 4 K . MURDOCK MURRAY, SR ., et al, 5 Plaintiffs, ORI6MAl. 6 VS . Civil Action 7 BATH IRON WORKS CORPORATION, Docket No 93-188-P-DMCI 8 and 9 EUGENE O . DAUPHIN, JR ., 10 Defendants . 11 12 D E P 0 S I T I O N 13 Pursuant to due notice, the deposition of 14 RAYMOND D . HARBISON, Ph .D ., was taken by the 15 Plaintiffs before Pamela A . Chorlog, C .M ., 16 Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public, 17 State of Florida at Large, at the Progress Center, 18 One Progress Boulevard, Alachua, Florida, 19 commencing at 9 :05 a .m ., on Thursday, May 19, 1994 . 20 APPEARANCES : 21 MARCIA CLEVELAND, ESQUIRE (VIA TELEPHONE), McTeague, Higbee, Libner, McAdam, Case & Watson, 4 Union Park, 22 Topsham, Maine 04086, Counsel for Plaintiffs . 23 ARLYN H . WEEKS, ESQUIRE, Conley, Haley & O'Neil, Post Office Box 651, Bath, Maine 04530, Counsel for 24 Defendant Bath Iron Works Corporation . i 25 SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . z l- --1 a WITNESS : 3 RAYMOND D . HARBISON, Ph .D . PAGE 4 Direct Examination by Ms . Cleveland 3 5 6 8XHIBITS 7 Exhibit 164 (Curriculum Vitae) 3 8 Errata Sheet Attached 53 9 10 S T I P U L A T I O N 1i It is stipulated and agreed by and 12 between counsel for the respective parties as 13 follows : 14 1 . All objections, except as to form of 15 the question, be reserved until 16 hearing on the same or until trial . 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 3 1 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit Number 2 164 was marked for identification .) 3 Thereupon, RAYMOND D . HARBISON, Ph .D ., 4 being first duly sworn, testified as follows : 5 DIRECT EXAMINATION 6 BY MS . CLEVELAND : 7 Q . Okay, Dr . Harbison . I would like to 8 begin by asking you some questions about your 9 curriculum vitae . First of all, I understand that 10 the copy which is being introduced into evidence -1i or which has been marked for introduction into 12 evidence as Exhibit 164 is your most current copy of 13 your CV? 14 A . Yes, ma'am . 15 Q . I have a copy which is 36 pages long, 16 which I understand from our prior conversation may 17 not be up to date . 18 A . That's correct . 19 Q . Just to make sure I know what's been 20 added, could you tell me what are the last items in 21 each of the different categories beginning with your 22 summary of experience? Has anything been added to 23 that before the Academy of Toxicological Sciences, 24 Board of Directors? 25 A . The last one I have is 1993 to present, SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 4 1 Academy of Toxicological Sciences, Board of 2 Directors . 3 Q . So I can assume that my copy is 4 reasonably complete with respect to that . Has there 5 been anything added to Industrial Experience, which 6 is on my Pages 6 and 7? 7 A . I donut know what you have . I donut 8 think so, but I can't see what you have . 9 Q . Is there anything very recent, any very 10 recent industrial experience? The first one I have 11 is "Occidental Oil - Worker safety in oil shale 12 production ." 13 A . Correct . 14 Q . And the last one is "Diversitech/Gen 15 Corporation - Evaluation of mortality among 16 PCB-exposed tire and plastic fabricators ." 17 A . Correct . 18 Q . Moving on to Grant Support, is there 19 anything new after Toxicology Support, DER, 1991 to 20 1993? 21 A . I don't have anything after that . 22 Q . Anything after the 23 Methamphetamine-Induced Toxicity for NIDA? 24 A . No . 25 Q . Turning to your Teaching Experience, is SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 5 1 there any addition to that? The first item I have 2 is Medical Toxicology at Vanderbilt Medical Center 3 and the last item 2 have is listed Health 4 Implications/Aspects of Chemical Issues, Superfund 5 University Training Institute, East Tennessee State 6 University . 7 A . That's Correct . 8 Q . Okay . And any additions to the 9 Continuing Education? 2 have seven items on the 10 copy I've got . 11 A . So do I . 12 Q . And have there been any additions to your 13 list of publications? I have 113 . 14 A . I have 132 . 15 Q . Does that include the books and 16 monographs and reports? 17 A . I don't think so . 18 Q . Okay . Then could you immediately after 19 the deposition just provide me with an updated list 20 of your publications? 21 MS . WEEKS : I can get it to you by 22 tomorrow morning, Marcia . 23 MS . CLEVELAND : Okay, good . Thanks, 24 Arlyn . 25 Q . Okay, Dr . Harbison . Let me ask you some SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 6 1 questions about your background . Obviously I'm not 2 going to go through every item on your CV, but there 3 are areas that I would like to question you about 4 that are particularly relevant to this case . First 5 of all, your background is in toxicology and 6 pharmacology . Correct? 7 A . Correct . 8 Q . And what board certifications do you 9 hold? 10 A . Board certification in toxicology . 11 Q . And what is the board that does that 12 certification? 13 A . The Academy of Toxicological Sciences . 14 Q . Okay . And that is not a medical doctor's 15 certifying board . Am I correct about that? 16 A . It certifies medical doctors as well as 17 Ph .D . s . 18 Q . But the certification is not one that is 19 a medical specialty exclusively . Is that correct? 20 A . That is correct . 21 Q . So you don't have to be a medical doctor 22 to qualify for that board certification? 23 A . You do not . 24 Q . And am I correct that you are not an 25 M .D ., doctor? SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 1 A . That is correct . 2 Q . And you are not licensed to practice 3 medicine anywhere? 4 A . That is correct . 5 Q . Do you have any other board 6 certifications? 7 A . I do not . 8 Q . Is there a board certification in 9 epidemiology? 10 A . I don't know the answer to that . 11 Q . Could you please summarize for me the 12 research that you have done during the last five 13 years? And that would reach back to 1989 . 14 A . I have evaluated the effects of chemicals 15 and their mechanisms of action to elucidate both the 16 harmful effects as well as the beneficial effects of 17 chemicals on the living system, and have evaluated 18 specifically the effects of various chlorinated 19 hydrocarbons and other chemicals as to the way that 20 they affect cells and the differences between the 21 effects in various cells and in various species . 22 Q . Okay . Now, could you be more specific 23 and tell me what chemicals you have studied? You've 24 said chlorinated hydrocarbons . Why donut you begin 25 by telling me specifically which substances in that SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 8 1 category you have done research on . 2 A . Okay . I'm not sure I'm going to be able 3 to remember them all . You want the last five years? 4 Q . Yes . 5 A . You want me just to name them? 6 Q . Yes . 7 A . Piperonyl butoxide, halothane, 8 bromobenzene, carbon tetrachloride, morphaline, 9 PCBs, ethylene dibromide, phenylpropanolamine, 10 polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, methanesulfonate . 11 Those are the ones that I could easily identify . 12 Q . Okay . Have you published the results of 13 the research in those substances which you've just 14 referred to? 15 A . Some of it, yes . 16 Q . And have those been peer-reviewed 17 publications? 18 A . They have . 19 Q . When you send me the copy of your updated 20 CV, could you indicate which publications in the 21 last five years you have just referred to in 22 answering this question ; in other words, which 23 publications are peer-reviewed reports of your 24 research on these substances? 25 A . Sure . SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 9 1 Q . Have you done research on other 2 categories of chemicals in the last five years? 3 A . Yes . 4 Q . Could you tell us what those are? 5 A . Dioxin, dibenzofurans, metals, other 6 chlorinated hydrocarbons, like trichloroethylene, 7 perchloroethylene, methylene chloride . Those would 8 be the ones I could recall . 9 Q . And again if you could indicate which 10 publications on your list refer to that research, I 11 would appreciate it . 12 A . Wait a minute . I'm sorry, I didn't 13 understand that question then . I thought you were 14 asking for studies that have been done but haven't 15 been published as peer-reviewed -16 Q . No, I'm sorry . I thought that originally 17 we were talking about chlorinated hydrocarbons and 18 then I wanted to ask you about other types of 19 chemicals or minerals that you have studied . 20 A . Well, I didn't understand it that way . I 21 thought you wanted to know all chemicals, so I 22 didn't answer that first question with just 23 chlorinated hydrocarbons . 24 Q . Well, have we now covered all the 25 substances that you've done research on or is there SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 10 1 something I have missed? 2 A . Those are all the ones I can reasonably 3 recall . 4 Q . And you mentioned metals . What metals? 5 A . Lead, cadmium, selenium (selenium) . 6 Those would be the ones I could recall . 7 Q . Okay . And just to clarify what I want S with your CV, could you indicate on your CV which 9 articles in the last five years are reports of that 10 research that you have just referred to and also 11 indicate which of those articles are peer reviewed? 12 I'm trying to move on to the next phase of this 13 fairly quickly . 14 A . Okay, but I don't think we're 15 communicating . What you just asked me is metals 16 that I have studied . They have not resulted in 17 peer-reviewed publications . 18 Q . I understand that, and I'm just trying to 19 ask you to indicate which ones have on your list of 20 publications by indicating it on your list of 21 publications . I understand that, that not all of 22 these resulted in peer-reviewed reports and I just 23 need to know which ones did . 24 A . Okay . 25 Q . Now, when you said you did research on SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 11 1 them, were you directing that research or were you 2 spending time in the lab yourself? 3 A . It would have been both . 4 Q . How much of your time was spent actually 5 in the laboratory directly involved in the research? 6 A . Well, it will vary from week to week, 7 year to year, month to month . I would say it may S vary from 10 percent to 20 percent to 25 percent . 9 Q . And that is the percentage of research 10 time spent in the lab? 1i A . Yes, ma'am . 12 Q . And does that mean that the balance of 13 research time is administrative? 14 A . No . It means it would be writing, 15 reviewing results, summarizing results, 16 statistically analyzing results, writing 17 publications . It would be spent in those 18 activities . 19 Q . Okay . Now, of that research what 20 percentage was research in animal species? 21 A . I would estimate that probably about 80 22 percent . 23 Q . And what percentage was in human tissue 24 in vitro? 25 A . I'm not sure I could give you a SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 12 1 percentage for that . I couldn't . It's a small 2 percentage, but I couldn't identify what it is . 3 Q . Was any of that research clinical studies 4 of humans? 5 A . Yes . 6 Q . What was the clinical study? 7 A . It was a study of metabolism of various 8 amino acids and other protein materials in humans 9 looking for the rate of excretion or the pattern of 10 excretion of these materials from the human ; also 11 looking at blood levels of lead and other chemicals . 12 That would be the general areas . 13 Q . Okay . And what was the purpose of this 14 research, and in particular the amino acid study, 15 the metabolism of amino acids? 16 A . To look at the efficacy of the 17 administration of certain materials as to their 18 bioavailability, that is, how much was taken up by 19 the body, and how much of that material would be 20 excreted, either unchanged or excreted as 21 metabolites . 22 Q . Was this a pharmacological study or a 23 toxicological study? 24 A . It would have been both . 25 Q . But was it a study designed to evaluate SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 13 1 the effectiveness of a drug or a would-be drug? 2 A . Yes . 3 Q . Have you done any epidemiology in the 4 last five years? 5 A . Yes . 6 Q . And what was that? 7 A . An evaluation of the morbidity and S mortality of workers at a facility using PCBs and 9 also fabricating plastic materials . 10 Q . And were the results of that study 11 published? 12 A . The study hasn't finished yet . 13 Q . Are there any drafts of the results? 14 A . There are not at the present time . 15 Q . Do you have a date by which you intend to 16 publish an article on that study? 17 A . I would hope that by the end of the 18 summer we would have a draft of that . 19 Q . And is that a draft that you would then 20 be submitting for publication? 21 A . Yes, ma'am . 22 MS . CLEVELAND : Arlyn, could you make a 23 note that when that draft becomes available I 24 would like to see it, see a copy of it? 25 MS . WEEKS : So noted . SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 14 1 Q . Now, in reviewing the copy of your CV 2 that I have, I notice that you serve on 13 different 3 boards at the present time . Is that accurate? 4 A . I don't know . I would have to look . 5 Q . Why donut you take a minute . 6 A . I see five . 7 Q . Could you tell me what those five are? 8 A . The Board of Directors of the Academy of 9 Toxicological Sciences ; the Advisory Hoard of Earth 10 2020, University of Virginia ; the Science Advisory 11 Board Consultant for the Environmental Protection 12 Agency ; the Board of Advisors of the Environmental 13 Institute ; .and the editorial board of 14 Teratogenicity, Mutagenicity and Carcinogenicity . 15 Q . So in that list -- maybe I misunderstood 16 the Summary of Experience . The other items in that 17 list under Summary of Experience which you indicate 18 are to the present include serving on the faculty of 19 educational institutions? 20 A . Correct . 21 Q . Let me just ask you about the five boards 22 you are on now . How much time per week do you 23 devote to the work of those boards all together? 24 A . I don't serve or spend time on a weekly 25 basis on those boards . SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 15 1 Q . How much do you spend a month or a year? 2 A . Probably a day a year . 3 Q . Do you attend all the meetings of those 4 boards? 5 A . Not all of them . 6 Q . For example, the editorial board of the 7 publication about mutagenicity, how often does that S board meet? 9 A . It doesn't meet annually . What I do is I 10 receive materials, provide peer review, and most of 1i that is done through the mail . 12 Q . How much of your time is spent peer 13 reviewing works for that publication or any other 14 publications? 15 A . It would vary . 16 Q . Between what and what? 17 A . Well, it would depend on the month, it 18 would depend on the year . Maybe as much as 10 19 percent of my time sometimes and it may be as little 20 as a few percent . 21 Q . On the other four boards which are not 22 editorial boards, do you spend any time other than 23 meetings on the work associated with those boards? 24 A . Yes . 25 Q . How much of your time is devoted to SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 16 1 those? 2 A . Well, again it would depend on the year, 3 it would depend on the month . It depends on what 4 the board is doing . It may be a few percent or it 5 may be no percent depending on what the board is 6 doing at what time . 7 Q . Now, your teaching experience, how much 8 time do you spend teaching and preparing courses for 9 teaching? 10 A . I would estimate that -- again that 11 varies . It depends on the semester . It's probably 12 about 10 percent, 15 percent . 13 Q . So 10 to 15 percent when you are 14 teaching, that is, during a semester when the course 15 is being offered? 16 A . That's correct . 17 Q . What is your position at the University 18 of Florida? 19 A . I am a professor of pathology, toxicology 20 and pharmacology and Director of the Laboratory for 21 Environmental and Human Toxicology . 22 Q . Now, when you take all those duties -23 well, first of all, let's take the director of the 24 center . How much of your time is spent doing 25 administrative work related to the center? SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 17 1 A . It's a laboratory . The laboratory 2 administration is minimal, a few percent . Most of 3 it I spend in research, and that's the percentages 4 we've talked about . 5 Q . So the administration, does that overlap 6 with the figure you gave me for research? 7 A . Yes, it would . 8 Q . Now, I think when I was asking you about 9 research, 2 was asking for a breakdown of how you 10 spend your research time, but I donut believe I 11 asked you the total percentage of your time you 12 spend on research . What would that total be? 13 A . I would estimate that it's probably about 14 30 percent . It will vary, 30, 40 percent . 15 Q . Now, when you say research, do you 16 include in that the work that you do for industry 17 which you have designated as industrial experience 18 on your CV? 19 A . I do not . 20 Q . So that's a separate category, right? 21 Industrial experience is a separate category from 22 research? 23 A . Well, it may be . Some research may occur 24 as a result of industrial work and some of it may 25 not be, so there may be some research in there . SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 18 1 Q . What percentage of your time is spent 2 doing industrial work which doesn't come under the 3 heading of research? 4 A . This is any kind of -5 Q . Any kind of industrial contract that you 6 haven't already accounted for . 7 A . But for research? 8 Q . No . Any industrial experience that is 9 not research, that you did not include in that 10 figure of your time spent on research . 11 A . Okay, I'm not sure I can do it that way . 12 I can tell you how much time I spend in the practice 13 of toxicology . That would include environmental, 14 industrial, forensic, it would include all of those 15 areas . I could give you a figure for that . 16 Q . Okay, do that . Then I can ask you some 17 more questions . 18 A . Okay . That's probably 40 percent, maybe 19 as much as 50 percent depending on the time . 20 Q . And of that 50 percent how much of that 21 50 percent is spent testifying either in 22 administrative proceedings or in court proceedings? 23 A . It varies . I would estimate between 15, 24 30 percent . 25 Q . Is that 30 percent of 50 percent or 30 SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 19 1 percent of the total? 2 A . No, that would be 30 percent of my time . 3 Q . And what is the nature of the other 4 industrial work that you do that isn't testifying 5 and isn't strictly research? 6 A . It would be the practice of toxicology, 7 providing technical assistance to the United States 8 Environmental Protection Agency for hazardous waste 9 site investigation, for evaluating the impact of 10 chemical releases, chemical spills, providing 11 technical assistance to emergency rooms and on-scene 12 coordinators and field investigation teams, managing 13 medical surveillance programs . Those would be the 14 general areas . 15 Q . Now I have one question about 16 publications before I forget it . Isn't it true, 17 Dr . Harbison, that in listing the authors of the 18 publication, the author listed first is the one who 19 spent the moat time on the research and the second 20 is the second-most and so on and so forth? 21 A . No . 22 Q . How would you describe the system for 23 deciding who is listed first? 24 A . Well, I don't know that there is a 25 system . 2 can certainly tell you how it's done in SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 20 1 my lab . 2 Q . Okay . How is it done in your lab? 3 A . It depends on who initiated the work, who 4 is responsible for the work . It may or may not be 5 relevant to the time spent . It depends on whether 6 it's a student or a postdoctoral fellow or another 7 faculty person . All of those factors would be 8 considered in who ends up being the first name . 9 Q . And if it's a postdoctoral candidate or a 10 student, would they tend to be further down the 11 list? 12 A . No . 13 Q . So in other words, there are situations 14 in which they would come first? 15 A . Yes . 16 Q . And what would those situations be? 17 A . If it's their dissertation research or if 18 it is their postdoctoral training research project, 19 they would probably most likely be first . 20 Q . In your list of publications I notice 21 there are many where you are the second listed . 22 There are many where you are not, but there are 23 many, especially toward the latter part of your list 24 of publications, where you are second . Does that 25 mean that your role was a supervisory one? SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 21 1 A . No . 2 Q . What was your role? For example, let me 3 give you the ones that I have . I've got Number 113, 4 Roberts, S .M ., R .D . Harbison and R .C . James, 5 "Ethanol inhibition of cocaine esteratic 6 metabolism," The Toxicologist, and that's the last 7 one I've got on my list . What was the situation 8 there? 9 A . What was the situation? 10 Q . Yes . Why is Roberts first, you second 11 and James third? 12 A . Well, probably because Roberts did the 13 work in the lab and I did some of the work, but not 14 all of the work, and he may have written it and I 15 may have ultimately reviewed it and approved it . 16 I'm not really sure what the mechanism was for that 17 particular paper . 18 Q . Okay . Now I would like to ask you some 19 questions about the sources first for your personal 20 income and then I will focus on the sources of your 21 center's income . What percentage of your income 22 comes from research? 23 A . It varies from year to year . It may 24 range as high as 50 percent or sometimes greater and 25 it may be lesser depending on what's going on in a SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . zz 1 particular year or a particular month . 2 Q . And what's the low end? You said it may 3 range up to 50 percent or more . What's the lower 4 end of the range? 5 A . I would say probably 30 percent . 6 Q . What percentage comes from work for 7 industry or government contracts that are not S research? 9 A . 2'm sorry, I don't understand that 10 question . 11 Q . Well, I think before we discussed a few 12 different categories of your work . One is research, 13 one is industrial or environmental work which is not 14 research, and the third one was testifying in 15 proceedings . And I'm trying to get a breakdown of 16 income from those three basic areas of your work . 17 So what would be the contracts with industry that 18 are not included in the research figure you just 19 gave me? 20 A . No, but remember, I said it's not a 21 contract with industry . It is a practice of 22 toxicology . 23 Q . But I assume you get paid for that at 24 some point . 25 A . Sure . SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 23 1 Q . And I'm just trying to get at what 2 percentage of your income gets paid for, as you 3 characterize it, the practice of toxicology? 4 A . The practice of toxicology would probably 5 range between 30 percent and 40 percent . 6 Q . And what percentage of your income comes 7 from testifying in administrative or court 8 proceedings and providing support for such 9 proceedings? 10 A . I would estimate that ranges from 15 to 11 20 to 30 . 12 Q . Now let me turn to the center that you 13 administer . What percentage of its income -14 A . Excuse me, it's not a center, it's a 15 laboratory . 16 Q . Okay, a laboratory . There's no entity 17 larger than the laboratory? 18 A . No, ma'am . 19 Q . What percentage of the laboratory's 20 income comes from research grants other than the 21 State of Florida? 22 A . I would estimate that it's probably 80 23 percent . 24 Q . And does the State of Florida contribute 25 some support to the laboratory? SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 24 1 A . It does . 2 Q . Is that the remaining 20 percent? 3 A . Yes, ma'am . 4 Q . And there's no other sources we haven't 5 covered . Am I right about that? 6 A . I'm sorry, I'm not understanding the 7 question . I only gave you one source . 8 Q . One source was research and you said that 9 was about 80 percent, and I said is the balance from 10 the State of Florida? 11 A . No, no . I thought your question was what 12 support did the State of Florida provide . 13 Q . Right . 14 A . Okay . The answer to that is about 20 15 percent . 16 Q . And I'm just trying to establish, and 17 this may seem obvious, but you said about 20 18 percent, and 20 plus 80 is 100 percent . Are there 19 any sources of funding for your laboratory other 20 than the two we have just discussed? 21 A . I'm sorry, I'm not understanding . I've 22 only discussed one . 23 Q . You discussed research and the State of 24 Florida . I first asked you what percentage of your 25 income came from research other than from the State SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 25 1 of Florida and you said 80 percent . 2 A . Correct . 3 Q . Then I asked you how much c ame from the 4 State of Florida and you said about 20 percent . 5 A . Correct . 6 Q . And 2'm just asking you, is there another 7 source o f funding for yo ur laboratory that we 8 haven't covered? 9 A . Yes . 10 Q . What's that? 1i A . I mean you ha ven't asked me about the 80 12 percent . 13 Q . Well, I'll get into that . I'm happy to 14 get into that . 15 A . I'm sorry . 16 Q . All right . What is in the 80 percent? 17 A . The National Institutes of Health . 18 Q . Is that exclusively the National 19 Institutes of Health? 20 A . You mean the 80 percent? 21 Q . Yes . 22 A . It would be predominantly the National 23 Institutes of Health . We do have some other support 24 that comes along now and then from pharmaceutical 25 industries, from other industries . It would be a SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 26 1 small percentage of the 80 percent . 2 Q . Okay . I would like to turn your 3 attention to your list of grant support . It's Pages 4 8 and 9 of the copy of the CV that I have . And 5 let's just deal with the ones that are relatively 6 current, like starting with the Study of the 7 Reproductive Toxicity of Selected Chemicals . From 8 there to the end of the list which ones are sources 9 of funding other than the National Institutes of 10 Health or the Florida DER? 11 A . Okay . The one that you started with, the 12 Study of Reproductive Toxicity of Selected 13 Chemicals, that source is not either NIH or DER . 14 It's from the National Foundation, March of Dimes . 15 The next one would be the Studies of 16 Isomer Specific PCB-Induced Toxicity . That's a 17 cooperative agreement with Rutgers College of 18 Medicine . That is neither of those other two 19 entities . Those would be the two . 20 Q . All right, thank you . 21 When were you first hired by Bath Iron 22 Works in this case? 23 A . 24 Q . 25 Works? I wasn't hired by Bath Iron Works . Have you ever been hired by Bath Iron SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 27 1 A . Not that I know of . 2 Q . Have you ever been retained by Bath Iron 3 Works? 4 A . Not directly that I know of . 5 Q . So are you being paid by Bath Iron Works? 6 A . I don't know who is paying my bill . I 7 assume that that is probably the case . 8 Q . And when did you first reach an agreement 9 to do some work that would result in your being paid 10 by Bath Iron Works? 1i A . Well, again I don't know that I'm being 12 paid by Bath Iron Works . I suspect that's probably 13 the case, but I don't have any dealings with Bath 14 Iron Works . 15 Q . Okay . When did you first enter into some 16 sort of arrangement which led us to this deposition 17 today? 18 A . Probably it would have been in December, 19 or January of 1994 . 20 Q . And what is your understanding of who is 21 going to be paying for this service? 22 A . I am to submit my bills to Arlyn Weeks or 23 Constance O'Neil . 24 Q . 25 firm? So you are being paid through their law SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . za i A . I don't know the arrangements for 2 payment . I simply send a bill . 3 Q . How much time have you spent on this 4 matter since being retained either by Constance 5 O'Neil or Arlyn Weeks? 6 A . I would estimate that it has probably 7 been about three days . 8 Q . And by that you mean three eight-hour 9 days? 10 A . Correct . 11 Q . So about 24 hours? 12 A . That's probably about right . 13 Q . And how much of that time was preparation 14 for this deposition? 15 A . I didn't spend any time specifically 16 preparing for this deposition, but obviously all of 17 that work I suspect would be in preparation 18 ultimately for providing opinions . 19 Q . 20 rate? Are you compensated based on an hourly 21 A . Yes, ma'am . 22 Q . And what is that hourly rate? 23 A . $175 . 24 Q . And is that the same for testifying? Is 25 it the same hourly rate when you testify? SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 29 1 A . It is . 2 Q . During the time that you spent on this 3 matter, what did you review? 4 A . I have reviewed the complaint, the letter 5 from Mr . Jack Krueger -6 Q . What is the date on that letter? 7 A . That would be August 7, 1979 . 8 Q . Okay . 9 A . The letter from Mr . Frances Drake, the 10 test results from the Dauphin-Bath wells . 1i Q . And what is the date on that one? 12 A . 3/19/80 . Additional test results dated 13 3/27/80, the State of Maine interdepartmental 14 memorandum to Mr . Ed Pinkham from Mr . Jack Krueger . 15 Q . And the date of that? Why donut you just 16 list them each with the date . 17 A . Okay . That would be 4/9/80 . The trip 18 report for Robert Herman, dated 11/13/86 ; the 19 Citizens' Environmental Laboratory data report, 20 dated 4/25/92 ; the letter from Richard Wardell, 21 dated 6/15/92 ; the Citizens' Environmental 22 Laboratory data, dated 6/17/92 ; the Citizens' 23 Environmental Laboratory data, dated 6/22/92 ; the 24 summary of the Bath Iron Works split sample results, 25 dated 6/19/92 ; the summary of the report of sampling SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 30 1 results, Maine Department of Environmental 2 Protection, dated 8/7/92 ; the letter from Corrine 3 McCandless, dated S/25/92 ; the letter from Mr . James 4 Nichols, dated 8/31/92 ; the Citizens' Environmental 5 Laboratory data report, dated 2/4/93 ; the Phase I 6 Remedial Investigation Report, dated 10/13/93 ; the 7 revised Phase I Remedial Investigation Report, dated 8 2/18/94 ; the medical records of Stephen Varney, 9 Lydia Murray, Pam Varney and Denise Wilhelmi ; the 10 depositions of Dr . McLellan, Dr . Clapp and 11 Dr . Winters . 12 That would be all . 13 Q . Okay . Have you ever been to Bath, Maine? 14 A . I donut believe so . 15 Q . Have you ever been to the Dauphin site? 16 A . No, ma'am, I have not . 17 Q . Did you review any material from the 18 plaintiff's hydrogeological expert, Ken Stone, 19 concerning the remedial investigation? 20 A . I don't believe so . 21 Q . Did you review the residential well 22 results from 1986 and 1987? I didn't hear it 23 offhand in the list that you gave me . 24 A . Yes . I don't think so . 25 Q . Do you know where the plaintiffs in this SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 31 1 case lived in relationship to the Dauphin site? 2 A . Their specific locations I do not . 3 Q . Do you know the relative di stance from 4 the plaintiffs' houses to the Dauphin site? 5 A . I donut recall the specific distance . 6 Q. 7 it? Did I hear you unrolling a map to look at 8 A . You did . 9 Q . Okay . What map is that that you were 10 looking at? 11 A . I am looking at the sediment sample 12 map -- 13 Q . If you can give me the number, we can 14 track it down later when we read the transcript . 15 A . The number? 16 Q . Yes . It should have a figure number in 17 the lower right-hand corner . 18 A . I'm sorry, it does . 41-B . 19 Q . Okay . So I think the question we had, 20 which I'm not sure you've answered, was do you know 21 how close the plaintiffs' houses are to the Dauphin 22 site? 23 A . I don't specifically know, not for each 24 of the plaintiffs . 25 Q . I think you've probably answered this, SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 32 1 but do you know what the plaintiffs were exposed to 2 in their wells when their wells were still in use, 3 what was in that well water? 4 A . I haven't seen any data for the 5 individual plaintiffs that would indicate what was 6 in their water at any specific time . 7 Q . Now, I'm going to ask you some questions 8 about your views on carcinogenesis, which I know you 9 have spent quite a bit of time on . And what I'm 10 looking for here is, as I say, your views and your 11 opinions on these general issues . 12 First of all, do you believe that 13 chemicals are capable of inducing cancer in humans? 14 A . Some chemicals, yes . 15 Q . And when we use the term cancer, just so 16 that we're sure we're talking about the same thing, 17 what is your definition of cancer? 18 A . Cancer is by definition a metastatic 19 process . It is a cell transformation that results 20 in a cloning process whereby cells that are now able 21 to invade surrounding tissues and metastasize 22 throughout the body are created ; and their growth is 23 not suppressed or repressed, so it is a 24 transformation to a new cell, and the subsequent 25 cloning of those cells which results in a metastatic SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 34 1 for the demonstration that it is a human carcinogen 2 is fairly weak, but it certainly is for regulatory 3 purposes, and for those purposes I would certainly 4 concur that it is a Class A regulated human 5 carcinogen . 6 Q . Are there other substances which are 7 regulated as Class A human carcinogens that you 8 personally donut consider carcinogens? 9 A . I don't remember all the Class A, so I 10 couldn't answer that question . 11 Q . I'm sorry . 12 A . I can't answer the question without 13 knowing what they are . 14 Q . Now, I understand that you believe that 15 there are different types of mechanisms by which 16 chemicals cause cancer in humans . Is that correct? 17 A . That is correct . 18 Q . And some chemical carcinogens you would 19 consider initiators . Is that correct? 20 A . That is correct . 21 Q . Would you tell me how you define an 22 initiator? 23 A . An initiator is a chemical that is able 24 to interact with the DNA of a cell . It is able to 25 irreversibly bind or damage the DNA, resulting in a SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 35 1 DNA that now has an error that can ultimately be 2 expressed and ultimately cloned . 3 Q . Now, in your view is a chemical 4 carcinogen an initiator if it is metabolized in the 5 body into another substance which then interacts 6 with the DNA? Do you call that situation an 7 initiator? 8 A . Well, it could be if it meets the 9 definition of what I just described as an initiator . 10 Q . Okay . So the fact that a chemical is 11 metabolized in the body into an intermediate which 12 then interacts with the DNA does not necessarily 13 disqualify it as an initiator? 14 A . It does not . 15 Q . Of the known human carcinogens that you 16 have mentioned so far, are any of them considered to 17 be -- do you consider any of them initiators? 18 A . Let's see . We talked about vinyl 19 chloride, we talked about benzene and hexavalent 20 chromium . 21 Q . And maybe arsenic . 22 A . And maybe arsenic . I would not consider 23 benzene as an initiator, I would not consider 24 chromium or arsenic as initiators . Vinyl chloride I 25 probably would not consider to be an initiator, SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 36 1 either . 2 Q . Okay . Can you give me an example of a 3 known human carcinogen that you consider an 4 initiator? 5 A . Well, I can't think of one at the present 6 time . It would have to be a substance again that 7 can interact with the DNA . It would have to be an 8 alkylating agent or some substance that would 9 ultimately alkylate or interact irreversibly with 10 DNA . 11 Q . Okay . When you say interact irreversibly 12 with DNA, does that mean necessarily that the 13 chemical alters the DNA in a way which is cloned? 14 Is cloning a crucial part of your definition of an 15 initiator? 16 A . I'm sorry, 2 did not hear that . 17 Q . In your definition of what constitutes an 18 initiator, is it essential that after the 19 interaction takes place with the DNA and the DNA is 20 altered, that that alteration is then cloned? Is 21 that a crucial part of your definition? 22 A . Well, an initiator may not initiate 23 cancer . If the DNA damage is repaired and if the 24 DNA damage is not cloned, it won't initiate cancer . 25 So an initiator is a description of a substance that SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 37 1 is able to interact with DNA and potentially can 2 cause a change in the DNA, but unless that DNA 3 change occurs and is cloned, then there won't be the 4 initiation of the transformation of the cell . 5 Q . Now, for carcinogens that you consider to 6 be initiators, is there a safe threshold for a 7 population? I'm not talking about whether an 8 individual will or will not develop cancer, but when 9 you look at the full exposed population, can you 10 establish a safe threshold for initiators? 11 A . Yes, I believe so . 12 Q . And why is that? Why do you believe that 13 a threshold can be established? 14 A . Well, a threshold can be established 15 because we now know that there are many repair 16 processes for repairing damaged DNA . And it was 17 recently reported that every single DNA of every 18 single cell of the body is damaged probably about 19 10,000 a day, and therefore, there are lots of 20 damages that occur to DNA which are very efficiently 21 repaired by a variety of enzyme systems, and an 22 initiator would have to overwhelm that repair system 23 in order to ultimately damage the DNA to result in 24 an irreversible damage that could ultimately go on 25 to be cloned . SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 38 1 So based upon the background damage that 2 occurs to DNA and based upon the efficiency of that 3 DNA repair, there are exposures to even initiators 4 that are without risk based upon that knowledge of 5 molecular biology and based upon the stoic geometry 6 of those reactions and the damage that could occur 7 to the DNA in those cells . 8 Q . What is that article that you just 9 referred to about DNA repair? 10 A . There are many articles on DNA repair . I 11 mean there are hundreds, thousands . Bruce Ames is 12 the fellow who recently evaluated the daily 13 bombardment of DNA and the frequency of DNA damage . 14 He published those calculations probably, I don't 15 know, I'll estimate five to eight years ago . 16 Q . Do you remember the journal it was 17 published in? 18 A . I do not . 19 Q . Do you know of any studies which have 20 established where a threshold is for any particular 21 carcinogen that you consider is an initiator? In 22 other words, by that I mean, you know, a study which 23 actually shows here is a threshold below which we 24 cannot observe an increased risk . 25 A . Sure . SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 39 1 Q . What are those for initiators? 2 A . For initiators? 3 Q . Right, a chemical that you consider an 4 initiator . 5 A . Well, I couldn't give you an example of 6 an initiator . I would have to look at that . I 7 can't answer . 8 Q . If you can find a citation for an article 9 like that, please provide it to Arlyn and she can 10 give me the citation and I can get it up here . 11 A . Sure . 12 Q . But I would like to know what that 13 citation would be . 14 By the way, do you know if Bruce Ames has 15 done any further work on the issue of the amount of 16 DNA damage and DNA repairs in that article you 17 referred to? 18 A . Oh, he has, yes . 19 Q . So he would have further publications on 20 that issue you believe? 21 A . Yes . 22 Q . Now let's move on to promoters . Could 23 you give me an example of some chemical carcinogens 24 that you -- maybe that's not the right word if they 25 are promoters, but anyway, chemicals which you SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 40 1 believe can play the role of promoters in 2 carcinogens? 3 A . There are different kinds of promoters . 4 Q . Okay . What are the different kinds? 5 A . There are chemicals that can produce 6 chronic inflammation, chronic irritation ; as a 7 result of that chronic inflammation and irritation 8 can produce ultimately a tumor, or cancer . That 9 would certainly be one form of promotion . 10 There are other chemicals that can alter 11 cell-cell communication . That would be another form 12 of promotion . So there are different mechanisms of 13 promotion . 14 For example, the carcinogenicity of 15 benzene would be a promotion phenomenon whereby a 16 chronic inflammation, chronic irritation could 17 ultimately result in an acute myelogenous leukemia . 18 That would certainly be one example . 19 Q . Okay . Well, is asbestos another example 20 of chronic inflammation in your view? 21 A . It would be chronic injury, and chronic 22 injury resulting in chronic inflammation, yes . 23 Q . Do you know of any studies establishing 24 the threshold of asbestos exposure below which 25 cancers are not induced? SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 41 1 A . Yes . 2 Q . What are those? 3 A . Well, there are regulatory standards that 4 are the basis for safe levels of exposure . Those 5 would be the permissible exposure limits . 6 Q . I wasn't really addressing regulatory 7 standards . 8 A . Well, I know . You're asking me for the 9 literature . I'm not going to be able to just 10 remember the literature for you . I can certainly 11 provide you with a list of the literature that would 12 be my opinion with regard to the basis for the 13 setting of those standards or that there is a 14 threshold below which there is no increased risk for 15 cancer . 16 Q . Okay . I would just like a citation to 17 what you consider to be the most important 18 literature supporting a threshold for asbestos . You 19 don't have to give me a lot of citations, but 20 whatever it is you would personally rely on for that 21 proposition . 22 A . Okay, as long as you're not going to hold 23 me to just the one I provide to you . 24 Q . No . But as long as you give me something 25 that fairly represents what you rely on for your SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 42 1 opinion . 2 A . Sure . 3 Q . Okay? I just don't need 10 pounds of 4 citations . 5 Now, with benzene, you described that 6 process as a chronic inflammation . What cell is 7 being clinically inflamed in benzene-induced S cancers? 9 A . Its the metabolism of benzene in the 10 marrow, which ultimately results in the chronic 11 inflammation and chronic injury . 12 Q . But what cell is being chronically 13 inflamed and injured in your view? 14 A . Well, its the stem cell process . I am 15 not prepared to give you the specific cell . 16 Q . So are you telling me that neither 17 benzene nor any of its metabolites interacts with 18 DNA or RNA? 19 A . I don't know of any specific metabolites 20 that interact that would result in DNA damage . 21 Q . Let's move on to PCBs, because you 22 mentioned that you have done some recent research on 23 that . Do you believe that PCBs are a promoter in 24 chemical carcinogenesis? 25 A . Under certain circumstances of exposure SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 43 1 PCBs can be promoters . 2 Q . And what are those circumstances? 3 A . There are studies that show that 4 depending on when you administer PCBs you can 5 enhance carcinogenicity of some chemicals, for 6 example, liver carcinogens, and in other instances 7 you can retard or inhibit or block the 8 carcinogenicity of other chemicals . 9 Q . So if PCBs and vinyl chloride, for 10 example, were present together, would PCBs in your 11 view enhance the carcinogenicity of vinyl chloride 12 if that's a liver carcinogen? 13 A . I don't know of any biologically 14 plausible mechanism by which PCBs would enhance the 15 carcinogenicity of vinyl chloride . 16 Q . What do you mean by biologically 17 plausible? 18 A . Well, any biological data that would 19 support the interaction between the polychlorinated 20 biphenyl and the vinyl chloride . 21 Q . Could you tell me, give me an example of 22 a liver carcinogen that you feel PCBs would enhance, 23 that is, would increase the carcinogenic impact? 24 A . I donut recall the specific chemicals . 2 25 think there were various nitrosamines that were SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 44 1 studied . 2 Q . Let's get back to biological 3 plausibility . How do PCBs work as promoters? 4 A . PCBs are enzyme inducers, and as enzyme 5 inducers can enhance the conversion of chemicals 6 from one form to a biologically active form and in 7 that process may promote the carcinogenicity of 8 those compounds whose metabolism is enhanced as a 9 result of that interaction . 10 Q . And going back to vinyl chloride, does 11 the vinyl chloride molecule itself in your view 12 interact directly with DNA or is it metabolized with 13 an intermediate which interacts with DNA or RNA? 14 A . It's metabolized to an intermediate . 15 Q . Where does that metabolism take place? 16 A . In the endothelial cells . I'm sorry, 17 that's not correct . 18 Q . Okay . Where? 19 A . It occurs in the parenchymal cells . The 20 endothelial cell is the cell that is ultimately 21 affected as a result of those metabolites . 22 Q . When you say parenchymal cells, you mean 23 the lining of the -- the inside of the lungs? 24 A . No, the liver . Parenchymal cells . 25 Q . But inside the liver? SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 45 1 A . Well, the liver parenchymal cells are the 2 cells of the liver, the hepatic parenchyma . 3 Q . Okay, that's what I'm trying to clarify . 4 We're talking about liver parenchyma? 5 A . Yes, ma'am . 6 Q . Do PCBs accumulate in the fatty tissue of 7 humans? 8 A . They can . 9 Q . Okay . Let's talk about dioxin, because I 10 know you've testified on dioxin issues on a number 11 of occasions . What do you consider to be the known 12 toxic effects of dioxin? 13 A . Dioxin can produce chloracne, and that is 14 the only effect that has been demonstrated, adverse 15 effect that has been demonstrated to be associated 16 with exposure to dioxin . 17 Q . And at what levels of exposure can 18 chloracne occur? 19 A . By levels you mean what would be in the 20 environment? 21 Q . Well, in the environment and to which 22 humans were exposed . 23 A . That's a difficult question to answer 24 because exposure is only the opportunity for 25 contact . So the fact that dioxin is in the SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 46 1 environment doesn't mean it gets into your body . 2 Q . That's true . 3 A . So talking about concentrations in the 4 environment is really not very relevant without 5 knowledge about how much gets into the body . Within 6 the body the normal circulating level of dioxin is 7 around seven, eight parts per trillion . It would be 8 orders of magnitude greater than that that would be 9 associated with chloracne . 10 Q . So it would be in the hundreds of parts 11 per trillion? 12 A . Yes, ma'am . 13 Q . And does dioxin accumulate in the body, 14 in any of the tissues of the human body? 15 A . It can . 16 Q . Where does it tend to accumulate? 17 A . In the body fat . 18 Q . Now, do you consider dioxin to be a 19 chemical which is capable of intensifying the 20 carcinogenic effect of other chemicals? 21 A . 2 would not consider that to be so . 22 Q . Let me go back and ask you a much more 23 general question about your views on the value of 24 research in animals and research in humans . Could 25 you just summarize your view of the role of the SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 47 r' 1 animal studies in toxicology? 2 A . Animal studies are useful for evaluating 3 4 information, useful for evaluating the potential 5 toxicity of a chemical . For regulatory purposes 6 that information can be used for public policy 7 purposes for regulating a chemical . 8 For example, if something is determined 9 to be an animal carcinogen for regulatory purposes, 10 you don't have to wait until it's demonstrated to be 11 a human carcinogen in order to be able to regulate 12 that chemical . So as a matter of public policy, 13 animal testing is used for identifying the potential 14 harmful effects, including carcinogenicity of 15 chemicals . 16 Some of that information may be reliable, 17 some may not be reliable . It depends on the 18 mechanism of action . And we certainly know that 19 there are some chemicals that that information is 20 not reliable based upon molecular biology 21 information with regard to, for example, peroxisome 22 proliferation based upon differences in metabolism . 23 Many of the old fears with regard to some of those 24 chemicals, such as some chlorinated hydrocarbons, 25 are not consistent with present facts . SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 48 1 So animal testing has a role in 2 evaluating the potential harmful effects of 3 chemicals . It is used for public-policy purposes, 4 however, it cannot be used to establish the cause of 5 a human ailment or disease . 6 Q . Okay . And when animal studies are used 7 to show that animal's metabolism of a suspect 8 carcinogen, for example, is different than human 9 metabolism, I assume that you have to have pretty 10 good data about human metabolism of that substance 11 to be able to show that the animal metabolism is 12 different . Is that correct? 13 A . That would be correct, that you would 14 need human metabolism data if the metabolism is the 15 difference . 16 Q . Or whatever the difference was, you would 17 need comparable data in humans to be able to tell 18 that the animal was different . 19 A . Well, by comparable, you would need human 20 information to be able to determine whether or not, 21 for example, peroxisome proliferation or globulin 22 accumulation in the kidney, you would need human 23 information for that phenomenon or for the 24 metabolism to be able to distinguish between the 25 animal testing data and humans in order to be able SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 50 1 A . Well, I don't have an opinion about that . 2 All I did is I looked at the data that existed, and 3 based upon the data that existed I evaluated the 4 exposure, and that exposure doesn't result in an 5 increased risk . 6 Q . And if that data were for some reason not 7 representative of the exposure, then I take it that 8 your opinion might change? 9 A . It may . I would have to reevaluate 10 whatever that data was or how it wasn't 11 representative . 12 MS . CLEVELAND : Okay . That's all I have, 13 Dr . Harbison . Thank you . 14 MS . WEEKS : I have no questions . 15 THE WITNESS : I would like to read if I 16 could . 17 (witness excused .) 18 (Whereupon, at 10 :20 a .m . the taking of 19 the deposition was concluded .) 20 21 22 23 l- 24 25 SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 51 1 CERTIFICATE OF OATH 2 3 STATE OF FLORIDA 4 COUNTY OF ALACHUA 5 I, Pamela A . Chorlog, a Notary Public of 6 the State of Florida at Large, being duly 7 authorized by Statute to administer oaths (Ch . 29, 8 F .S ., and F1a .R .Jud .Admin . 2 .070), certify that the 9 witness, RAYMOND D . HARBISON, Ph .D ., was first duly 10 sworn by me to testify the whole truth . 1i Witness my hand and seal at Gainesville, 12 Florida, this 24th day of May, 1994 . 13 14 15 C .M ., R .P .R ., AND NOTAR PUBLIC 16 STATE OF FLORIDA AT LARGE MY COMMISSION EXPIRES 2/16/94 17 18 PAMELA A. MOVM 19 ~I '. EXPIRE : iWneiY 16. IM 20 --s 21 22 23 24 25 SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC . 52 1 CERTIFICATE WITH ACKNOWLEDGEMENT 2 I, Pamela A . Chorlog, C .M ., Registered 3 Professional Reporter, certify that I was 4 authorized to and did stenographically report the 5 foregoing deposition ; and that the transcript is a 6 true record of the testimony given by the witness . 7 I further certify that I am neither 8 attorney or counsel for any of the parties, nor a 9 relative or employee of any attorney or counsel 10 connected herewith, nor financially interested in 11 the event of this case . 12 I further certify that the original of 13 this deposition was delivered to Ms . Cleveland and 14 was true and correct at the time of delivery . 15 16 17 PAMELA A . CHORLOG, CM, (R PR 18 19 STATE OF FLORIDA COUNTY OF ALACHUA 20 The foregoing certificate was acknowledged 21 before me this h day of May, 1994, by Pamela A . Ch ~P~~o is personally known to me . 22 23 "' 24 25 ~~ti~s~'=.,~ ~B RN-OS'TERHUDT, Not-a-r-y---Public, State of Florida " ` My Commission Expires 2/1/97 SCRIBE ASSOCIATES, INC .