Document 710kzLGdrVRnYb27R1DyorB4g

1 1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF ST. CLAIR COUNTY, ALABAMA 2 PELL CITY DIVISION 3 4 THOMAS C. and CHARLOTTE ) 4 G. DYER, ) 5 Plaintiffs, ) CIVIL ACTION NUMBER 5 ) CV-93-250 consolidated 6 VS. ) with CV-94-50-PH for 6 ) discovery only 7 MONSANTO COMPANY, A ) 7 Delaware corporation, ) DEPOSITION OF: Defendants. ) WILLIAM L. DEFER 9 SHELTER COVE MANAGEMENT, ) 9 INC., et al. , ) 10 Plaintiffs, ) 10 ) CIVIL ACTION NUMBER 11 VS. ) 11 ) CV-94-50-PH 12 MONSANTO CORPORATION, ) 12 et al., ) 13 14 STIPULATION 15 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED, by and between 16 the parties through their respective counsel, that the 17 deposition of: 18 WILLIAM L. DEFER, 19 may be taken before Jill B. Sanders, Commissioner and 20 Notary Public, State at Large, at the Law Offices of 21 Burr & Forman, 3000 SouthTrust Tower, 420 20th Street 22 North, Birmingham, Alabama, on the 15th day of 23 September 1998, commencing at approximately 9:20 a.m. Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032545 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that the signature to and reading of the deposition by the witness is not waived, the deposition to have the same force and effect as if full compliance had been had with all laws and rules of Court relating to the taking of depositions. IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that it shall not be necessary for any objections to be made by counsel to any questions, except as to form or leading questions, and that counsel for the parties may make objections and assign grounds at the time of the trial, or at the time said deposition is offered in evidence, or prior thereto. 2 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032546 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 4 BURR & FORMAN 5 BY: E. Clayton Lowe, Jr., Esq. 6 Peter A. Grammas, Esq. 7 3100 SouthTrust Tower 8 420 20th Street North 9 Birmingham, Alabama 35203 10 11 FOR THE DEFENDANT: 12 LIGHTFOOT, FRANKLIN & WHITE 13 BY: Adam K. Peck, Esq. 14 505 20th Street North 15 Suite 300 16 Birmingham, Alabama 35203 3 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032547 INDEX Examination by Mr. Grammas....................................................... Page 6 Reporter's Certificate.................................................................... Page 178 Deponent's Certificate.................................................................... Page 17 9 Correction Sheet....................................................................................... Page 180 4 EXHIBIT LIST Plaintiff's Exhibit 1....................................................................... Page 161 Plaintiff's Exhibit 2....................................................................... Page 162 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032548 1 I, Jill B. Sanders, a Court Reporter of 2 Birmingham, Alabama, and a Notary Public for the State 3 of Alabama at large, acting as commissioner, certify 4 that on this date, pursuant to Rule 30 of the Alabama 5 Rules of Civil Procedure and the foregoing stipulation 6 of counsel, there came before me on the 15th day of 7 September 1998, at the Law Offices of Burr & Forman, 8 3000 SouthTrust Tower, 420 20th Street North, 9 Birmingham, Alabama, commencing at approximately 10 9:20 a.m., WILLIAM L. DEFER, witness in the above 11 cause, for oral examination, whereupon the following 12 proceedings were had: 13 WILLIAM L. DEFER, 14 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as 15 follows: 16 COURT REPORTER: Usual stipulations? 17 MR. GRAMMAS: Do you want to read and sign? 18 We've been doing that on all of them. I don't know if 19 you want to do it or not. It's fine with us if you 20 do. 21 MR. PECK: It's up to you. You can wait and 22 see how it goes and see if there are a lot of 23 complicated things that come up. It's up to you. 5 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032549 1 THE WITNESS: I have no idea what you're 2 talking about. 3 MR. PECK: At the end of the deposition - 4 MR. GRAMMAS: We'd rather him read and sign 5 it. 6 MR. PECK: -- you can read and sign the 7 deposition and make any corrections you feel are 8 necessary. 9 THE WITNESS: Okay. 10 MR. GRAMMAS: We'll go ahead and -- let's 11 just say he'll read and sign it. 12 13 EXAMINATION BY MR. GRAMMAS: 14 Q Could you state your full name for the 15 record, please, sir? 16 A William L. DeFer. 17 Q And where are you currently employed? 18 A Monsanto Company. 19 Q 20 A As what? Plant manager of the Augusta, Georgia 21 facility. 22 Q Plant manager of what? 23 A The Monsanto Facility in Augusta, Georgia. 6 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032550 Q What do y'all manufacture there? A Pharmaceutical intermediates, Nutrasweet brand of aspartame. Q How long has that plant been there in Augusta? A 1982 . Q Was there ever an occasion, sir, where you worked at the Anniston plant for Monsanto? A Yes, there was. Q What period of time would that be? A December of 1991 through June of 1994. Q And what did you do during that period of time for Monsanto here in Anniston? A I was the plant manager of that facility. Q Monsanto wasn't manufacturing PCBs at that time, was it? A No, they were not. Q Have you ever been employed by Monsanto -- let me ask you this: When did you first become employed by Monsanto? A 1979. Q Was that right out of college? A Yes, it was. 7 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032551 1Q When did you graduate? 2A 1979. 3Q Okay. Where did you graduate from? 4A University of Missouri. 5Q What degree do you hold? 6A Bachelors in chemical engineering from that 7 school. 8Q A BS degree in chemical engineering? 9A Yes. 10 Q Have you held any other degrees? 11 A I have a masters degree in business 12 administration. 13 Q And when did you obtain that? 14 A 1985 . 15 Q Did Monsanto pay for that? 16 A Yes, they did. 17 Q Did Monsanto pay for your chemical 18 engineering degree? 19 A No, they did not. 20 Q Do you have any family members or anything 21 like that employed by Monsanto besides yourself? 22 A No. 23 Q How was it that you applied for a job at 8 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032552 1 Monsanto? 2A Just one of the companies I interviewed with 3 at school. 4Q Does your chemical engineering degree give 5 you any formal education or background on the study of 6 polychlorinated biphenyl? 7A No formal education on PCBs while I got my 8 undergraduate degree. 9Q Have you had any education on PCBs since you 10 have become employed by Monsanto? 11 A Some. 12 Q Tell me about those. 13 A I guess principally maybe twoareas. 14 Although I never had formal accountability for any 15 kind of solid waste programs, I became familiar with 16 regulations regarding PCBs and transformers, so that 17 general area. I'm not an expert, but I have some 18 general understanding of that part of the regulations. 19 And just the secondary would be just general 20 scientific knowledge that either I read in a trade 21 article or learned internally through Monsanto, 22 whether it's, you know, a backgrounder that Monsanto 23 did on PCBs or something of that nature. 9 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032553 1Q Did you say bread in a trade? 2A Read. 3Q That you have read in a trade. 4A That I might have read in a trade journal 5 or something like that. 6Q To your knowledge when did Monsanto stop 7 manufacturing PCBs? 8A Sometime in the '70s. 9Q Before you ever became employed with 10 Monsanto? 11 A Correct. 12 Q And you understand that PCBs were 13 manufactured with the intended purpose of being a 14 persistent chemical? 15 MR. PECK: Object to the form. 16 A No, that's not my understanding. 17 Q Why was Monsanto making PCBs to your 18 knowledge? 19 A To my knowledge Monsanto was making PCBs 20 because Swann Chemical Company made PCBs. And that's 21 how Monsanto got into the PCB business, when they 22 acquired Swann Chemical Company. 23 Q You are talking about back in the 20's? 10 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032554 1A Let's see -- 2Q I'm talking about from like 1930 up through 3 1976 when Monsanto stopped making PCBs. Why were they 4 making them during that forty-year period of time? 5A Because it was a useful commercial product. 6 It had unique electric properties and enhanced 7 significantly the safety of things such as 8 transformers and capacitors that needed dielectrics. 9Q You say it enhanced the safety of them. Is 10 that because of the fire resistant nature of it? 11 A That's my understanding, yes. 12 Q But it also was manufactured, at least from 13 my reading of some of Monsanto's documents, to be a 14 very stable persistent chemical. Is that not your 15 understanding? 16 A No, that's -- it's not my understanding. 17 My knowledge of electrical engineering and power 18 distribution is very limited. And all I know is the 19 PCBs are a good dielectric fluid. I don't propose 20 to -- 21 Q Why are they a good dielectric fluid? 22 A I don't know. 23 Q Well, how do you know that they are a good 11 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032555 1 dielectric fluid, then? 2A Because I have been told by people, you 3 know, in the power industry and told by people who 4 know more about PCBs than I do. I'm relying on their 5 j udgment. 6Q Any of those people work for Monsanto? 7A I suppose so, sure. 8Q Who are they? 9A Well, it would have been a whole host of 10 people. 11 Q Tell me who they are. 12 A Okay. First and foremost it would be in 13 Monsanto backgrounder material, which is where I would 14 have learned that. I don't recall it going into more 15 detail. I don't recall those kind of materials going 16 into the detail about, you know, what makes a good 17 dielectric fluid, I don't recall any of that 18 background. And some of the people I worked with at 19 the Anniston plant, principally. 20 Q Who would those be? 21 A Primarily, someone like Jerry Brown would be 22 a person who provided just general background 23 information. And another source of information 12 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032556 1 while -- would just be general records of Swann 2 Chemical and some of the information I have read about 3 the history of Swann Chemical and kind of the 4 discovery of PCBs. 5Q Who is Jerry Brown? 6A Jerry works at the Anniston plant. That's 7 my belief, he still works there. At the time Jerry 8 was -- I think his title was technical superintendent, 9 maybe, but he supervised the lab and some other 10 technical areas. 11 Q I don't understand -- and help me understand 12 this Mr. DeFer -- why is it that you're looking into 13 PCB issues if Monsanto stopped making PCBs four, five 14 years before you even became employed by Monsanto? 15 A Do you mean why are we looking into them 16 now, or why have we looked at them historically or -- 17 Q I mean, I don't understand you personally. 18 Why is it necessary for you to be reading documents 19 from Swann Chemical about the manufacture and 20 production of PCBs and internal documents from 21 Monsanto and background material regarding PCBs if 22 y'all don't even make the stuff anymore? 23 A Well, as far as the background information 13 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032557 1 of Swann Chemical, that's just general background 2 trying to understand the history of the plant, nothing 3 special about that. I was just as interested in the 4 phosphates that were first manufactured there as PCBs. 5 That's just for general background information. 6 In terms of PCB just general information, 7 Anniston was a facility that once manufactured PCBs, 8 and those things like backgrounders were sent to me 9 when they were updated. 10 Q I guess what I'm getting at is this: Is 11 this just your drive to educate yourself informally 12 through these sources you have mentioned on PCBs in 13 general, is motivated by your own personal desires to 14 learn it, or is it motivated because Monsanto is 15 asking you in some official capacity to study these 16 issues? Do you understand my question? 17 A I think I do. 18 Q Okay. 19 A I did not have an official job 20 accountability that required me to have a technical 21 understanding of PCBs. My job accountability might 22 have included and would have included potentially 23 inquiries from someone in the community about things 14 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032558 1 at the plant. So I guess principally that's why I was 2 interested in it. 3Q And that's where I'm going to. From 1991 to 4 1994 you were the plant manager at Anniston for 5 Monsanto; is that right? 6A Yes. 7Q As plant manager, you were the head honcho 8 down there, right? 9A I had overall accountability for operation 10 of the site, yes. 11 Q So you know that Monsanto manufactured PCBs 12 at that site for a forty-year period roughly, don't 13 you? 14 A I knew that they were manufactured there for 15 a long period of time. 16 Q And you also knew -- I mean, as part of the 17 plant manager, wouldn't it have been your 18 responsibility to discover the waste disposal of those 19 PCBs before you got there? 20 A Can you be more specific? 21 Q Yeah. Didn't you need to know howMonsanto 22 manufactured those PCBs during that period of time, 23 what they did to capture any waste or spills that may 15 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032559 1 have occurred during that period of time, and what 2 they did to dispose of those PCB waste during that 3 period of time? 4 MR. PECK: During the period of time they 5 manufactured it? 6 MR. GRAMMAS: Right. 7A No, I don't think I needed to know that. 8 I-- 9Q Even -- go ahead. I didn't mean to 10 interrupt you. 11 A What would be important to me is were there 12 any issues pertaining to PCBs, you know, that were 13 regulatory issues or something that demanded my 14 attention during that time period. 15 Q And sitting here today, sir, you know of 16 many issues relating to PCBs that demand your time, 17 don't you? 18 MR. PECK: While he was plant manager? 19 MR. GRAMMAS: Right. 20 A While I was plant manager I was not aware of 21 any significant issues surrounding PCBs on the site. 22 Q Did you know that PCBs are stored in a 23 landfill at the Anniston plant? 16 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032560 1A I know that there is a closed landfill at 2 the Anniston plant that has by-products from several 3 processes in the plant, including by-products of the 4 PCB plant, yes, I know that. 5Q I will ask you that question again because I 6 don't think you answered it. Are you aware, sir, 7 sitting here today that PCBs are stored in a landfill 8 at Monsanto's site in Anniston, Alabama? 9A And I'm - 10 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 11 question. Asked and answered. Go ahead. 12 A I'm aware that by-products from the 13 manufacture of the PCB process were placed in a 14 landfill on the plant site, yes. 15 Q What does that mean? I don't understand 16 what that answer means. 17 A Well -- 18 Q True or false? 19 A I'm not trying to evade your question. Your 20 question seems to imply that we used a landfill for a 21 finished product storage area, which we did. It was 22 by-products -- at least from my understanding, it was 23 by-products from the manufacture of PCB, which 17 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032561 1 occurred before I got there. 2Q True or false, PCBs are stored in a landfill 3 in Anniston, Alabama? Simple question. 4 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 5 question. Asked and answered twice. It's not a true 6 or false question. You can explain your answer. 7Q Well, it is a true or false question, Adam, 8 because I made it a true or false question. 9 MR. PECK: Okay. Go ahead. 10 Q True or false, PCBs are stored in a landfill 11 in Anniston, Alabama as we sit here today? 12 A By-products from the manufacture of PCBs are 13 in a landfill on the plant site, correct. 14 Q Is there some reason, Mr. DeFer, that you 15 don't want to tell me that PCBs are in a landfill in 16 Anniston, Alabama? 17 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 18 question. Argumentative. Asked and answered three 19 time s. 20 A No, there is no particular reason. 21 Q Let me ask you this: Do you have a 22 hesitation - 23 MR. PECK: Let him finish what he was 18 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032562 1 saying. You cut him off. 2A I don't want to -- I guess that -- I would 3 characterize it this way, and let me expand on my 4 answer and maybe that will answer your question. Is 5 that my understanding of these things that predated my 6 arrival on the plant site is that this landfill was 7 used for by-products for a manufacturer of various 8 products including PCB by-products, and, yes, some of 9 those by-product would include molecules that we would 10 characterize as PCBs. 11 Q All right. Now, I have asked a very direct 12 question, and I, in my opinion, have gotten an 13 indirect answer. And I want the record to be clear. 14 Yes or no, true or false, are there PCBs stored in a 15 landfill on Monsanto's property in Anniston, Alabama? 16 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 17 question. Now asked and answered four times. 18 A There are materials in that landfill that 19 include PCBs, yes. 20 Q So that means PCBs are, in fact, stored in a 21 landfill in Anniston, Alabama? 22 MR. PECK: Object to the form. 23 A I don't believe I said that. 19 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032563 1Q That's why I keep asking you. See, your 2 lawyer keeps objecting and saying you have answered my 3 question, but I don't think you have. And now you've 4 agreed with me that you haven't. The question is are 5 PCBs in a landfill in Anniston, Alabama? Yes or no. 6 That's a simple question. Are they there? 7 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 8 question. Asked and answered five times. He is 9 explaining his answer to you, Pete. If you don't like 10 it, that's your problem. You can go ahead again. 11 Tell him again. 12 Q Are PCBs present in a landfill in Anniston, 13 Alabama? 14 A There are by-products from the manufacture 15 of PCBs stored on-site, and those by-products do 16 include PCBs. 17 Q Okay. So let me ask you this: If a jury 18 reads -- where do you currently live, Mr. DeFer? 19 A Augusta, Georgia. 20 Q Are you planning on being present at the 21 trial of this matter to testify to this jury to your 22 knowledge? 23 A If called I will. 20 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032564 1Q I guess what I'm asking you is, is there any 2 reason why you are not going to be present at the 3 trial of this matter to testify to the jury? 4A I don't know of any reason right now, no. 5Q Do you have any present intentions to appear 6 before this jury and give live testimony to the jury 7 regarding your involvement in Monsanto's Anniston 8 plant? 9A I don't know the answer to that question. 10 Q Assuming that you are not there and a jury 11 reads your deposition testimony as opposed to your 12 live questioning, do you want the jury to understand 13 that PCBs are not stored in a landfill in Anniston, 14 Alabama? 15 A I would not want to leave them with that 16 impression. I would want to expand on it, as I have 17 already done. 18 Q You want the jury to know the truth about 19 Monsanto's conduct, don't you, sir? 20 A I want the jury to know the truth. 21 Q And the truth is PCBs are located in a 22 landfill on-site at Monsanto's Anniston facility, yes 23 or no? 21 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032565 1 MR. PECK: Asked and answered like six 2 times now. Object to the form of the question. I 3 hope someday we move beyond this. 4A There are many materials stored in that 5 landfill. They do include by-product materials. Some 6 of those by-products are PCBs. 7Q Let me ask you this: Is the reason you are 8 hesitant to directly say that PCBs are present in the 9 landfill is because you know that PCBs are improperly 10 stored there? 11 A No, that's not the reason. 12 Q Is the reason that you are hesitant to say 13 directly that PCBs are stored in a landfill in 14 Anniston, Alabama is because you know that PCBs are a 15 known human carcinogen? 16 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 17 question. Scientific facts not privy. 18 A No, that's not the reason and -- no, it's 19 not. 20 Q But you do know that PCBs are a known human 21 carcinogen, don't you? 22 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 23 question. 22 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032566 1A That's not a simple question to answer. As 2 far as I know, there is no scientific consensus that 3 PCBs are a human carcinogen. That's my belief and 4 understanding. 5Q So you are denying the reports that have 6 discussed PCBs and classified them as a human 7 carcinogen? 8A I don't know what reports you are referring 9 to. 10 Q Well, I'm referring to the ones you have 11 just discussed, that you have just mentioned 12 implicitly in your testimony. 13 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 14 question. If you have got a report that shows it's a 15 known human carcinogen why don't you give it to him 16 because I know of no such report. He did not testify 17 to that. 18 A And I don't know that there is such a 19 report. I am not an expert in the health effects of 20 PCBs. My belief and understanding is and always has 21 been that there is no scientific consensus that there 22 is any long-term chronic significant health effects to 23 humans from PCBs. 23 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032567 1Q And you want to testify under oath to what 2 you just said even though before you said -- you 3 admitted that you are not an expert on health effects 4 of PCBs, correct? 5A I didn't represent that as an expert. I 6 just said it's my belief and understanding. 7Q You believe that it doesn't cause -- that 8 PCB exposure does not cause long-term human health 9 effects yet at the same time you acknowledge you don't 10 know anything about the potential health effects of 11 human beings on PCB exposure? Is that what you are 12 saying? 13 A Actually, I believe what I said was to my 14 understanding there is no scientific consensus about 15 the health effects of PCBs in humans. So I'm not 16 taking a position one way or the other because I don't 17 have that expert knowledge. 18 Q That's what I'm getting to. You are not 19 saying that PCBs don't cause adverse human health 20 effects, are you? 21 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 22 question. We are not offering him as an expert on the 23 issue of PCBs. I don't know why you are trying to 24 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032568 1 beat him up about things that we are not offering him 2 on. We will bring a toxicologist for you to -3 MR. GRAMMAS: Is he an expert? 4 MR. PECK: -- discuss PCBs. He is here 5 because he has to answer the questions you ask. 6 MR. GRAMMAS: Is he an expert witness? 7 MR. PECK: He is not an expert on the issues 8 of PCBs. 9 MR. GRAMMAS: Are you going to designate 10 him as an expert witness in this case for any matter? 11 MR. PECK: I am not designating him as an 12 expert witness. 13 MR. GRAMMAS: So he is a fact witness. 14 MR. PECK: He will not be designated as an 15 expert witness. 16 MR. GRAMMAS: Then he is a fact witness from 17 Monsanto, and he is here to answer questions on behalf 18 of Monsanto, Adam, and I will ask him any questions 19 relating to PCBs that I feel are necessary. 20 MR. PECK: You can do that, but this is just 21 stupid to ask him quote, unquote, expert questions and 22 then beat him up for not being an expert. It's just 23 stupid. 25 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032569 1 MR. GRAMMAS: No, it's not. Well, you think 2 all you want about it. That's fair. If you think 3 it's stupid, that fine. 4 MR. PECK: It's stupid. It's argumentative. 5 I'm not going to stop it, but it's just absurd. I 6 mean, we are going to be here all day for a guy who 7 was in the plant for a year and a half, and it's just 8 stupid. 9 MR. GRAMMAS: Well, you are probably right. 10 We will be here all day. And as long as I continue to 11 get evasive answers, we may be here all week. 12 MR. PECK: You haven't gotten evasive 13 answers. You just don't like the answers you get. 14 MR. GRAMMAS: Oh, I like them. I like them 15 a lot. 16 Q (By Mr. Grammas) Now, scientific consensus, 17 that suggests to me, Mr. DeFer, that you have read 18 scientific literature on PCBs. You said there is not 19 a scientific consensus on the issue of adverse human 20 health effects of exposure to PCBs. Did I hear you 21 correctly? 22 A I said that it's my belief and 23 understanding that there is no scientific consensus. 26 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032570 1 I haven't done specific research on that. 2Q Well, if you have an understanding that 3 there is not a scientific consensus, that suggests to 4 me that there is a debate -- at least that there is a 5 debate within the scientific community about adverse 6 human health effects on PCB, true? 7 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 8 question. Lack of foundation. 9A Could you repeat the question? 10 Q Yes. You said there is no scientific 11 consensus. That means some people are disagreeing 12 with the position that you have stated on the record. 13 MR. PECK: He said it's his understanding 14 there is no scientific consensus. 15 MR. GRAMMAS: Hey, Adam, the record speaks 16 for itself. 17 MR. PECK: I'm taking notes. You apparently 18 don't know what he said. 19 MR. GRAMMAS: I understand that you need to 20 object to the form of questions if you feel like I 21 have asked an improper question, but I will ask if you 22 will please stop interjecting, stop coaching your 23 witness. I know these are difficult questions. 27 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032571 1 MR. PECK: I'm not coaching my witness. I'm 2 trying to protect this incredible record you are 3 creating. 4 MR. GRAMMAS: I know this is a difficult 5 topic for Mr. DeFer to talk about, but let's let his 6 testimony be on the record instead of yours, okay? 7 MR. PECK: It's not a difficult topic. It's 8 just being made difficult by the argumentative nature 9 of your entire line of questioning. I've got to admit 10 I have never been in a deposition quite like this in 11 thirteen years of practice, but, you know, I guess I 12 haven't been in one with you, Pete. 13 MR. GRAMMAS: I guess you haven't been in 14 one with me, then. 15 Q (By Mr. Grammas) All right. Now, I will 16 ask you again. When you say that you are aware that 17 there is not a scientific consensus on the issues 18 relating to health effects of PCB exposure to human 19 beings, doesn't that mean that within the scientific 20 community as far as you know it there is a debate? 21 You will at least give me that, won't you? 22 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 23 question. Lack of foundation. 28 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032572 1A I'm not aware that there is a consensus on 2 the health effects of PCBs. And I base that not on 3 in-depth study, not on any expertise that I have, just 4 on both things, very casual kind of summaries that I 5 might read in trade journals and the position that 6 some of Monsanto's own experts have taken. But I have 7 not had that explained to me in any depth, and I am 8 not an expert. I'm just repeating what my belief is, 9 what my understanding was. 10 Q Are you finished? 11 A Yes. 12 Q You have heard some of Monsanto's experts 13 say that they don't believe PCB exposure causes 14 adverse human health effects. Have you heard any 15 other experts disagree with Monsanto's experts on that 16 topic? 17 A In what form or what are you referring to? 18 Q I'm repeating back to you what you are 19 telling me. You said you are aware that Monsanto's 20 experts have taken the position that there is not a 21 consensus that PCB exposure to humans have adverse 22 health effects. That's what you just told me. And 23 I'm just following up on that. And I'm saying, well, 29 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032573 1 are you aware of other experts who have taken a 2 contrary position? 3A It's my understanding that there have been 4 contrary positions, yes. But I do not have a detailed 5 knowledge of those studies. 6Q Right. And those contrary positions under 7 your understanding are, in fact, that PCBs do cause 8 adverse human health effects to PCB exposure? 9A I'm not enough of an expert in the field 10 that I want to go on record as characterizing what 11 some of those other positions are. That wouldn't be 12 -- I don't have a basis to make that statement. 13 Q But you do have a basis to make the 14 statement that you don't believe it causes adverse 15 health human effects, is that what I am hearing you 16 say? 17 A No. I think what I said is it's my 18 understanding and belief that there is not a consensus 19 in the scientific community. 20 Q Let me ask you this: As the plant manager 21 in Anniston from 1991 to 1994, part of your 22 responsibilities were to make sure that chemicals that 23 were manufactured in the past that may be stored on 30 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032574 1 your property were not escaping your property and 2 getting into your neighboring landowner's property, 3 would you agree with that? 4A I would say that in my role as plant 5 manager, I had many accountabilities. Those included 6 things like safety, quality, costs and compliance with 7 environmental regulations. It's my understanding at 8 the time -- at the time I was not aware of any issue 9 regarding PCBs that I needed to respond to or take any 10 action on while I was there. 11 In your question you have also raised the 12 issue about things -- potentially, you have raised the 13 issue about things that occurred long before I arrived 14 at the plant. And I don't have knowledge of those 15 things. 16 Q I didn't say a word about PCBs in my 17 question, Mr. DeFer. I didn't mention it. So maybe 18 you misunderstood my question. I will ask it again. 19 A All right. 20 Q As part of your responsibilities as the 21 plant manager at the Anniston facility from 1991 to 22 1994, you were charged with the responsibility of 23 making sure that chemicals Monsanto had manufactured 31 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032575 1 in the past did not escape its property and get onto 2 neighboring properties, isn't that a true statement? 3A From an internal prospective -- let me 4 answer that from two prospectives, internal and 5 external. From an internal prospective it's not a 6 normal job accountability for someone in my role to 7 have oversight, expect to have complete knowledge of 8 things that happened before I was there because you 9 have talked about -- you have mentioned all chemicals 10 that we manufactured in the past. If there was an 11 ongoing issue that I was aware of, if there was a 12 facility that was in the process of being closed, 13 certainly I would act on those, and that would be the 14 kind of thing that I would respond to. 15 From an external perspective, I believe 16 that, you know, had I known of any issues like that 17 and when I do become aware of issues like that, those 18 are acted on. 19 Q Okay. Let's talk about an issue of PCB 20 contamination for a moment, sir. You are aware that 21 PCBs were leaking out of Monsanto's landfill during 22 the period of time that you were the plant manager, 23 they were leaving Monsanto's site, and they were 32 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032576 1 getting on neighboring landowners, and they were 2 getting into Snow Creek. Would you agree with 3 everything I just said? 4A No, I wouldn't agree with any of it. 5Q You don't believe that Monsanto is 6 responsible for putting PCBs into Snow Creek from its 7 landfill? 8A Could you restate the question? 9Q You don't believe that Monsanto is 10 responsible for putting PCBs into Snow Creek from its 11 landfill? 12 A I don't believe that Monsanto intentionally 13 placed PCB by-products anywhere but that landfill on 14 the site. 15 Q You don't believe Monsanto is responsible 16 for putting PCBs in Snow Creek from its landfill? 17 A Are you asking a question about PCBs that 18 might be there in Snow Creek today? 19 Q I'm asking you is it true that Monsanto 20 allowed PCBs to leave its landfill and get into Snow 21 Creek? 22 MR. PECK: During the time period he was 23 plant manager or in all time or what? 33 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032577 1Q At any time. 2A Well, during the time I was plant manager I 3 have no knowledge of that. It was not my belief that 4 that was occurring. I had no information to tell me 5 that it was occurring. Before that time I just don't 6 have a basis and fact to answer. 7Q Okay. Well, during the time you were there, 8 you knew that there was a study being conducted on 9 Snow Creek relating to PCB contamination, weren't you? 10 A Could you be more specific about the study? 11 Q No, I can't. I'm not going to be more 12 specific about it. You knew when you were there at 13 the Anniston plant that Monsanto was studying Snow 14 Creek relating to PCB contamination, right? 15 A I don't believe there was a Monsanto study 16 during my time period there of Snow Creek. 17 Q Were you aware, sir, that the attorney 18 general had determined that Monsanto -- the attorney 19 general for the State of Alabama had determined that 20 Monsanto had put PCBs into Snow Creek? 21 A I'm not aware that there was any such 22 determination by the attorney general during the time 23 that I was there. 34 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032578 1Q I didn't limit it to the time that you were 2 there, sir. 3A I'm aware that Monsanto has cooperated with 4 agencies such as ADEM in investigating PCBs in Snow 5 Creek. I don't have a specific knowledge about an 6 attorney general's statement. 7Q Okay. 8A I have never seen any documents to that 9 effect. 10 Q Have you ever given a deposition before? 11 A No, I have not. 12 Q Have you ever testified at trial before? 13 A No, I have not. 14 Q Have you ever provided in any form or manner 15 or shape whatsoever any sworn testimony? 16 A Just trial testimony anddepositions. 17 Q Affidavits, trialtestimony, testimony in 18 depositions? 19 A I have probably provided affidavits for 20 various things, I guess. It's possible. 21 Q What types of things have you provided 22 affidavits for? 23 A It could be insurance. It could be -- I 35 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032579 1 suppose I could have already related to this case what 2 you would constitute an affidavit. 3Q What would that be? 4A I don't know. I'm not trying to be evasive, 5 but I don't want to say no when maybe I have. 6Q Well, sitting here today do you recall 7 providing any affidavit testimony on behalf of 8 Monsanto relating to PCBs? 9A No. 10 Q How about relating to any issue? 11 A Testimony, no, relating to any issue. 12 Q What did you do to prepare yourself for 13 this deposition today, if anything? 14 A Talked with -- spent some time with Adam 15 yesterday afternoon. 16 Q Anything else? And I don't want to know 17 about what y'all talked about. 18 A Did not. 19 Q Did you review any documents? 20 A I don't have any documents in my possession. 21 Q Did you review any documents to prepare for 22 your deposition testimony? 23 A I reviewed no documents whatsoever. 36 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032580 1Q So you didn't do anything to educate 2 yourself about what Monsanto had done in the past 3 relating to PCB contamination of Snow Creek, 4 Choccolocco Creek and Lake Logan Martin; is that a 5 fair statement? 6 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 7 question. It's argumentative. Go ahead. 8A In terms of preparing for this deposition, 9 the answer is, no, I did no additional research 10 preparing for this deposition. 11 Q All right. Well, you have qualified your 12 answer so I'm going to ask you a broader question. 13 A Okay. 14 Q Have you ever read any documents or have you 15 ever done any research or investigation work to 16 determine whether Monsanto has contaminated Snow 17 Creek, Choccolocco Creek and Lake Logan Martin with 18 PCBs ? 19 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 20 question. Go ahead. 21 A I haven't reviewed any of those historical 22 documents, no. 23 Q You, if I understand your testimony, were 37 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032581 1 not present at any time during the manufacture of PCBs 2 at Anniston, correct? 3A Correct. 4Q And you've already testified under oath that 5 you're not aware of any PCBs leaking from the landfill 6 while you were employed by Monsanto at Anniston, 7 right? 8 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 9 question. Mischaracterizes his prior testimony. 10 Q Did you testify to that, that you are not 11 aware of any PCBs leaking out of the landfill while 12 you were there? 13 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 14 question. Mischaracterizes his prior testimony. 15 MR. GRAMMAS: I'm asking if that's what he 16 testified to. 17 A Could you read it back to me? 18 Q I'm asking you, sir, right now, did you 19 testify just a moment ago that you are not aware of 20 any PCBs leaking out of the landfill while you were 21 there? 22 A I do not remember. You have asked a lot of 23 questions. But if you want to ask the question again 38 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032582 1 as a new question, I'll answer that. 2Q All right. Let's do that, then. 3A Okay. 4Q Are you aware of any PCBs leaking out of the 5 landfill while you were employed there? 6A No, I was not aware of that. 7Q That's what I thought you saidearlier. So 8 sitting here today you have no personal knowledge nor 9 have you read any documentation that would suggest to 10 you, sir, that Monsanto ever allowed PCBs to leave its 11 plant site and contaminate Snow Creek, Choccolocco 12 Creek and Lake Logan Martin; is that a fair statement? 13 A Can you be more specific about what type of 14 documents you're talking about? Are you referring to 15 Monsanto internal documents? 16 Q I'm not referring to any particular 17 document. I just want to understand what your 18 knowledge as the plant manager in Anniston, Monsanto's 19 Anniston plant, for '91 to 1994 is. And the way I 20 have summed up your prior testimony can in my opinion 21 be summed up in the following statement. And if I'm 22 wrong, I want you to tell me. Sitting here today you 23 are not aware of any evidence, investigation, studies, 39 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032583 1 or whatever that would suggest to you through personal 2 knowledge or based on your investigation that Monsanto 3 has ever allowed PCBs to leave its property in 4 Anniston, Alabama and contaminate Snow Creek, 5 Choccolocco Creek, and Lake Logan Martin, true or 6 false? 7A Okay. You have asked a complicated 8 question, and I need to give you -- I need to be 9 specific in my answer. I'm aware that different 10 groups have studied PCBs in those areas that you have 11 mentioned, for example, Choccolocco Creek. My -- I 12 have not reviewed any of those documents. I have 13 never reviewed those related to any of that specific 14 work. I have seen -- I believe that maybe I have seen 15 press clippings that alluded potentially to some of 16 those things, that's possible. But you did mention 17 the word "allow, " and, you know, my -- the implication 18 is that Monsanto, you know, knowingly allowed 19 something to leave the plant site. And I should speak 20 for the time that I was there. And when I was there, 21 I don't have any knowledge of that. 22 Q I didn't limit it to the time frame, sir. 23 You see, you ran the Monsanto plant for a period of 40 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032584 1 time, correct? 2A Yes, I did. 3Q And as the head guy down there, it seems to 4 me -- and maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Monsanto is not like 5 this, but it seems to me that as part of your 6 responsibilities you would be placed with the duty to 7 make sure that hazardous chemicals that Monsanto 8 manufactured at any time at that facility weren't 9 leaving its property and getting into neighboring 10 landowners' property. That just seems to me, is that 11 true or false? 12 A Had I become aware of that kind of 13 information or had a reason to be concerned that 14 something like that was occurring, that is definitely 15 something I would have investigated. 16 Q Now, what about if -- are you aware of a 17 process called sewering? Have you ever heard of that? 18 A Are you referring to discharge -- sewer 19 discharges at a plant? 20 Q Sewering, what does that mean to you? 21 A Well, it could mean a host of things. It 22 could mean cooling water. It could mean noncontact 23 water. It could mean water that's been in contact 41 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032585 1 with the process. 2Q What does sewering mean? 3 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 4 question. Asked and answered. 5Q When somebody sewers anything, what does 6 that mean? 7A Well, it's going into a conveyance that you 8 call a sewer, I guess. 9Q You're throwing it away, right? 10 A Well, not necessarily. It depends. It 11 depends where that sewer leads. 12 Q What if the sewer leads to -- what if 13 Monsanto were sewering PCBs out of its Anniston 14 facility and the discharge was Snow Creek. Are you 15 aware of any of that ever happening based on review of 16 documents, Monsanto documents? 17 A I'm not aware of that based on review of 18 Monsanto documents. 19 Q Are you aware of that under any source of 20 information? 21 A I have been told by others that there were 22 process streams associated with that process that were 23 sewered, yes, and left the plant property. 42 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032586 1Q Right. So you know and you learned in your 2 official capacity at Monsanto that in the past 3 Monsanto sewered PCBs from its Anniston plant that 4 ended up directly deposited into Snow Creek during the 5 forty or so year period that it manufactured PCBs, 6 true? 7 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 8 question. 9A Well, I didn't have enough information -- I 10 can't say that I have enough information, either 11 reviewed the documents personally or was told enough 12 information to answer the question you have asked. I 13 don't know to the extent -- I don't know what kind of 14 pretreatment was going on in the plant boundaries. I 15 do not know specifically, you know, any kind of 16 specific information about the amount of PCBs it might 17 have been contained leaving the plant. And I'm not in 18 a position to speculate where those PCBs, you know, if 19 they left the plant, where they are. 20 Q Did you understand my question? 21 A I thought I did, yes. 22 Q Because you didn't answer my question. You 23 answered another question. My question was do you 43 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032587 1 know in your official capacity that Monsanto engaged 2 in a process called sewering whereby during the period 3 of time when they manufactured PCBs they would dispose 4 of PCBs by putting them in a sewer and that sewer went 5 from a pipe that eventually went straight into Snow 6 Creek? Yes or no. It's a simple question. Are you 7 aware of that? 8A I'm aware that there were process waste 9 waters. From that process, I don't know about what 10 kind of pretreatment they had. I know that those 11 waste waters eventually left the plant boundary and 12 went into a tributary of Snow Creek. I do know that. 13 Q That's all I'm asking. Now, so you will 14 admit to me that during that period of time you were 15 aware that Monsanto in fact dumped PCBs into Snow 16 Creek? 17 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 18 question. 19 A I'm aware that there were waste waters 20 associated with that process. So, yes, left the plant 21 boundary and flowed through Snow Creek. I wouldn't 22 characterize that based on my limited understanding as 23 dumping. 44 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032588 1Q Okay. But the waste waters did contain 2 PCBs in them? 3A Based on what I've been told they could 4 have, yes. 5 MR. PECK: Just for the record. We are 6 talking about things that occurred back in the 7 manufacturing days of PCBs? 8 MR. GRAMMAS: Correct. 9A Right. 10 Q Right. But we are talking about what you 11 have learned in your official capacity as a Monsanto 12 manager, okay? That's what we're talking about here. 13 So you know that Monsanto intentionally released PCBs 14 into Snow Creek over a period of time that it 15 manufactured PCBs at that site, right? 16 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 17 question. 18 A I know that process waste waters potentially 19 containing PCBs were released from the plant into Snow 20 Creek over a period of time when PCBs were 21 manufactured. 22 Q You said process waste waters potentially 23 containing PCBs. There is no potential about it. The 45 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032589 1 waste water contained PCBs, right? That's what your 2 own documents show, right? 3A I have not seen those documents. 4Q But you know that to be the case. You have 5 already testified to that, that the waste waters 6 discharged into Snow Creek contained PCBs, right? 7 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 8 question. Mischaracterizes his prior testimony. 9A Could you repeat the question? 10 Q Yes, sir. Monsanto during the period of 11 time that it manufactured PCBs discharged waste water 12 into Snow Creek that contained PCBs? 13 A Monsanto during the period of PCB 14 manufacture, you know, based on what I am told, there 15 were process waste waters from that process that were 16 discharged from the plant. Those waste waters flowed 17 through a tributary of Snow Creek. And based on what 18 I'm told, there is the possibility that those waste 19 waters could have contained things from that process 20 including PCBs. 21 Q Were PCBs in the waste water or not? 22 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 23 question. 46 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032590 1A I do not have that information. 2Q Someone at Monsanto told you that PCBs were 3 in the waste water? 4A What I was told -- I was not told that 5 specifically. What I was told is that -- my 6 recollection is that I was told that at some point in 7 time that there was a monitoring requirement and they 8 monitored for PCBs. I know that. 9Q And they found them? 10 A I haven't seen that data. 11 Q Okay. Who told you this? 12 A Well, one source of information would be 13 Jerry Brown. 14 Q Who else? 15 A Probably Jerry Brown. 16 Q He's the only person? 17 A He's the only person that I can recall. 18 Q Okay. Do you know whether or not PCBs have 19 been found in Snow Creek, Choccolocco Creek, and Lake 20 Logan Martin? 21 MR. PECK: Any particular time period or 22 just throughout all time? 23 Q Recently, over the past twenty years. 47 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032591 1A Over the past twenty years my understanding 2 is they have been found in sediments of Snow Creek and 3 Choccolocco Creek and off the top of my head I don't 4 know about Lake Logan Martin. 5Q Okay. And you know that fish advisories 6 have been posted along Choccolocco Creek and parts of 7 Lake Logan Martin because according to the Alabama 8 Department of Health, Public Health, PCB levels in 9 fish exceed the EPA requirements? 10 A I know that while I was in Anniston a fish 11 advisory was posted for parts of Choccolocco Creek. 12 Q Because of PCB contamination in the creek, 13 right? 14 A The advisory was based on PCBs in the fish. 15 Q Right. Have you ever talked to anybody from 16 the Department of Public Health for Alabama? 17 A Personally, I have not. 18 Q Okay. And when the Alabama Department of 19 Public Health placed this fish advisory while you were 20 in charge of the entire plant, did you ever call them 21 up and say, hey, what's this all about, some words to 22 that effect? 23 A No, I did not. 48 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032592 1Q Did you ever deny to the Alabama Department 2 of Public Health that Monsanto was the responsible 3 party for the PCB contamination in that river system? 4A I was never asked by the Alabama Department 5 of Health that question. 6Q I understand that. Did you ever write them 7 a letter, call them, instruct your lawyers to tell 8 them, hey, Monsanto didn't put those PCBs in that 9 river system? 10 MR. PECK: I think he probably didn't mean 11 to do that but he just asked you a question invading 12 the attorney/client privilege when he asked you what 13 you instructed your lawyers to do. So I'm going to 14 instruct you not to answer that portion of the 15 question -- 16 MR. GRAMMAS: That actually does not invade 17 the attorney/client privilege. 18 MR. PECK: Sure it does. 19 MR. GRAMMAS: No, it doesn't. 20 MR. PECK: Absolutely does. 21 MR. GRAMMAS: No, the attorney/client 22 privilege protects advice. 23 MR. PECK: It protects -- 49 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032593 1 MR. GRAMMAS: It does not protect facts. 2Q (By Mr. Grammas) And if you are aware of a 3 fact, sir, dealing with PCB contamination or your 4 denial of PCB contamination, I'm entitled to know it. 5 MR. PECK: I guarantee it will be denied in 6 the answers in this lawsuit, things that that question 7 invades. 8 MR. GRAMMAS: I won't split hairs. I 9 disagree with you, but I will give it to you. I don't 10 care. Did you ever instruct anyone to tell the 11 Alabama Department of Public Health that you do not 12 believe Monsanto was the responsible party for the PCB 13 contamination at Choccolocco Creek that caused the 14 Alabama Department of Public Health to post that fish 15 advisory? 16 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 17 question. Argumentative. 18 A I don't recall nor do I believe that I gave 19 any instructions to anyone about communications with 20 the Alabama Department of Public Health. 21 Q Well, let me ask you this: Sitting here 22 today do you deny that Monsanto is the responsible 23 party for that fish advisory being posted? 50 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032594 1 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 2 question. Lack of foundation. 3 MR. GRAMMAS: What do you mean lack of 4 foundation? 5 MR. PECK: It means he is not qualified to 6 express a very scientific opinion about whether or not 7 Monsanto was responsible for whatever PCBs may be in 8 Choccolocco Creek. 9 MR. GRAMMAS: You are telling me the head 10 honcho at Monsanto from '91 to '94 who was present 11 when one of the fish advisories was posted can't tell 12 me under oath whether Monsanto is the party 13 responsible for it? Is that what you are saying? 14 MR. PECK: Yeah, I'm telling you that. 15 That's a scientific question. And he's not qualified 16 to answer it. 17 MR. GRAMMAS: That's not a scientific 18 question. 19 MR. PECK: Yes, it is. You apparently don't 20 know what science is, Pete. 21 Q (By Mr. Grammas) You have scientist - 22 MR. PECK: You are asking about science in 23 every one of your questions. 51 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032595 1Q You have scientists working for you, right? 2 When you were the plant manager out there in Anniston, 3 you had scientists working under your instruction and 4 direction, didn't you? 5A There were technical people who worked for 6 me, yes. 7Q And they were in charge with the 8 responsibility of determining factually the truth of 9 scientific evidence and then reporting it back to you 10 so you as a manager could make a decision based on the 11 evidence, right? 12 A Those technical people at the plant were 13 charged with doing technical things related to the 14 operations of the plant. 15 Q Right. And if Monsanto was the party 16 responsible for putting PCBs into Choccolocco Creek, 17 which ultimately led to a fish advisory, during the 18 period of time that you were the head man in Anniston, 19 you would have become aware of that type of 20 information, right, or should have become aware of it, 21 right? 22 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 23 question. 52 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032596 1A Let me start at the end of the question and 2 work forward. As far as, you know, the fish advisory, 3 my belief is that was related to PCB levels in fish 4 that they found. Neither myself nor anybody at the 5 plant has any expertise around aquatic fish, the 6 toxicity issues around fish, that's not our area of 7 expertise. 8 You have also asked -- in your question you 9 asked about responsible for that. Again, that's not 10 my area of expertise or the people at the plants area 11 of expertise to draw conclusions about how a past 12 process that we ran, you know, influenced that. 13 That's just not something I know about nor was the 14 technical staff at the plant charged with that. That 15 wasn't an area of their expertise. 16 MR. PECK: Can we take a break? 17 MR. GRAMMAS: Yeah. 18 (A brief recess was taken) 19 Q Mr. DeFer, have you ever told anybody in the 20 past that the PCBs that are being found in this river 21 system came from Monsanto? 22 A No, I have not. 23 Q If someone testified under oath at the trial 53 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032597 1 of this matter that they called you and you told them 2 that, would they be lying? 3A MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 4 question. Improperly asked him to comment - 5 MR. GRAMMAS: Calls for what? 6 MR. PECK: It's improper to ask him to 7 comment on the testimony of another witness. That's 8 an improper question. 9Q I'm just saying, if someone says that, if 10 someone stands up and swears under oath in front of a 11 jury that they talked directly to you about PCB 12 contamination in Choccolocco Creek and the 13 responsibility of the fish advisories and asked you 14 where the PCBs were coming from and you told them the 15 Monsanto plant, would they be telling the truth 16 according to as you know it? 17 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 18 question. 19 A I would be surprised if that testimony was 20 given because I don't ever recall saying that. I want 21 to stop short of saying that if somebody, you know, 22 did that, would be a liar. I don't normally 23 characterize people as a liar without, you know, 54 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032598 1 hearing them out. But I don't remember saying that to 2 anybody. 3Q Have you ever given any interviews or have 4 you ever spoken with any reporters about PCBs - 5 Monsanto's responsibility for PCBs in Choccolocco 6 Creek and Lake Logan Martin? 7A I believe I have given -- had conversations 8 with reporters about -- 9Q And I'm talking about when you were the 10 plant manager. 11 A Yes. The answer is I believe I have been 12 interviewed by reporters and such. Boy, I can't 13 remember. I have been interviewed by them, yes. 14 Q And they talked to you about PCBs in this 15 river system, this eco system, right? 16 A I don't know that for sure. It's very 17 possible they have. 18 Q You are testifying under oath that you don't 19 recall a reporter during the time that you were plant 20 manager calling you and talking to you about 21 Monsanto's responsibility for PCBs located in 22 Choccolocco Creek and Lake Logan Martin? 23 A I don't recall a specific question like 55 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032599 1 that. 2Q So then if a reporter testifies that you 3 told him that the PCBs came from Monsanto, you have no 4 basis to deny his statement, do you? 5 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 6 question. It's improper on many grounds. 7A Well, again, I guess if someone made that 8 testimony, I would want to hear the testimony first. 9 I'm just not going to -- I don't want to characterize 10 something I haven't heard. I would be surprised if I 11 heard that. 12 Q I understand that, sir. But what I want to 13 know is this: Either you told reporters about 14 Monsanto's responsibility for the PCBs in this eco 15 system or you haven't. 16 A Okay. 17 Q Okay. Now, which one of those two events is 18 it? 19 A I don't believe I have made a statement like 20 that to a reporter. 21 Q Are you saying that you didn't make the 22 statement or that you don't recall making the 23 statement? 56 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032600 1A I'm saying that I don't believe I made that 2 statement, but it's been -- it's been over four years, 3 and I don't remember any of the specific details. I 4 don't have any of those files with me, and I have not 5 reviewed them. 6Q I'm uncertain about what you're testifying 7 to. Are you saying you don't recall telling a 8 reporter that, or are you saying, Mr. Grammas, I never 9 told a reporter that? When I say "that", I mean that 10 Monsanto is the party responsible for putting the PCBs 11 in Choccolocco Creek. 12 A Well, the way you have asked the question I 13 think I need to say I don't believe I ever remember 14 doing that. 15 Q So your answer is you don't recall doing it? 16 A No, I don't recall ever doing that. 17 Q But you are not saying that you didn't do 18 it? There is a big difference there because I want to 19 tie this down. 20 MR. PECK: Object to the form. 21 Q You are not denying that you said it, you 22 are just saying I don't recall saying it? 23 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 57 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032601 1 question. 2A No, I certainly don't recall saying that, 3 and it's my belief that I wouldn't have said that 4 because I don't believe that personally now 5 necessarily, and, you know, I don't recall saying 6 that. 7Q Okay. 8A It's a complicated issue that can't be 9 answered simply in that one sentence. 10 Q What's a complicated issue? 11 A The question you asked, thestatement you 12 made about the reporter. 13 Q What? What's complicated? 14 A Well, if you want to repeat the question, 15 then I will -- 16 Q No, I want to understand what you're 17 defining as a complicated issue. Tell me what you are 18 saying is complicated in your mind. 19 A Your statement about -- your question, did I 20 make a statement to a reporter. And the statement 21 that you characterize strikes me as pretty 22 complicated, and it's got some assumptions in it. 23 Q Okay. And the statement is that Monsanto is 58 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032602 1 at least in part responsible for putting the PCBs in 2 Choccolocco Creek, right? 3A I think that's what you asked, yes. 4Q And you're saying that part of the question 5 is complicated. 6A What I'm saying -- what I would say -- if 7 you asked me a specific question about responsibility 8 for PCBs in Choccolocco Creek, what I would say is 9 first of all I personally don't have the technical 10 knowledge to make that statement, you know, to make a 11 determination, and I just don't. 12 Q Okay. 13 A So to me it's a complicated question. 14 Q So what you're saying is that you can't 15 either admit or deny whether Monsanto is responsible 16 for putting PCBs into this eco system because you 17 don't have the training or the background to answer 18 the question? 19 A Would you repeat the question? 20 MR. GRAMMAS: Will you read that back, Jill? 21 (Requested portion of the record was read.) 22 A I don't want to -- Monsanto's operations 23 in manufacturing of PCB could be a source of PCBs in 59 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032603 1 the eco system. I would agree with that. But the 2 question of, you know, responsibility in a particular 3 place, that's a more complicated question. PCBs are a 4 widely used industrial chemical so they could have 5 come from other individuals or companies. They could 6 have been introduced at different geographic 7 locations. 8Q Tell me all the different companies or 9 geographical locations that contributed to the PCB 10 contamination of Snow Creek. 11 A I personally haven't seen such a list, and I 12 haven't tried to develop such a list, but it does 13 remain a possibility. 14 Q Sitting here today you are not aware of a 15 single source of potential PCB contamination of Snow 16 Creek? 17 A Monsanto potentially released PCBs into Snow 18 Creek, but there might have been other sources as 19 well. 20 Q Okay. Now, you say Monsanto potentially 21 released PCBs into Snow Creek. 22 A Uh-huh. 23 Q Are you willing to concede, sir, that over 60 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032604 1 the forty-year period of manufacturing Monsanto did, 2 in fact, release PCBs into Snow Creek? Can you 3 concede at least that point for me? 4 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 5 question. 6A I would state that it's my belief that 7 Monsanto was a likely source, a potential source of 8 PCBs in Snow Creek, yes. 9Q I understand and you've testified to that 10 and I appreciate that, that you believe it is 11 potential. What I'm saying is during that period of 12 time will you concede that Monsanto did, in fact, 13 release PCBs into Snow Creek? 14 MR. PECK: During it's manufacturing 15 process? 16 Q During it's manufacturing process. 17 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 18 question. No foundation. 19 A During the time of manufacture based on 20 what I've been told, there were -- it's likely that 21 Monsanto discharged PCBs into Snow Creek, yes. 22 Q Okay. Now, tell me other than Monsanto who 23 is likely -- we'll do it again. Does likely mean in 61 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032605 1 your answer to my last question that Monsanto may not 2 have discharged PCBs into Snow Creek during the period 3 of time it manufactured PCBs? 4 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 5 question. 6A Again, that was before I arrived at the 7 plant. I have not seen any of those documents. Based 8 on what I've been told, it's my belief that PCBs were 9 discharged from the plant into Snow Creek. 10 Q Okay. Tell me your belief as to all of the 11 other sources of PCBs being discharged into Snow Creek 12 during any period of time. 13 A I don't -- you know, myself, personally, I 14 don't have a, you know, any basis, any factual basis, 15 that says there was some other source. 16 Q Okay. 17 A I'm simply stating the possibilitythat 18 there could be other sources. 19 Q But sitting here today you can't identify 20 one single solitaire source other than Monsanto being 21 responsible for having PCBs put into Snow Creek? 22 MR. PECK: During the manufacturing period? 23 Q During any period of time. 62 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032606 1A During the time of manufacture, that was a 2 long time. And, yes, it's possible there were other 3 sources, but I do not know. I do not know definitely 4 of another source of PCBs personally. 5Q Okay. Now my question is a little bit 6 broader than this, Mr. DeFer, and don't limit it to 7 the period of time that it was manufactured by 8 Monsanto. Sitting here today tell me one single 9 source of PCB contamination in Snow Creek other than 10 Monsanto. 11 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 12 question. Lack of foundation. 13 A I don't have any specific personal knowledge 14 of other sources of PCBs in Snow Creek. However, the 15 only thing I would add is that property is not 16 Monsanto property, and we don't control access to that 17 property. 18 Q To Snow Creek? 19 A Correct. 20 Q PCBs don't occur naturally in the 21 environment, do they? 22 A I think that'sgenerally accepted, yes. 23 Q And Monsanto is the only companythat 63 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032607 1 manufactured PCBs in the entire United States, right? 2A It's my understanding we are the only U.S. 3 manufacturer. 4Q And no manufacturers outside the United 5 States imported PCBs into this country, correct? 6 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 7 question. Lack of foundation. 8A I don't know that. 9Q You don't know the answer to that? 10 A I do not. 11 Q Do you know who Monsanto competed with for 12 PCB sells within the United States? 13 A No, I don't, but, again, I actually know 14 nothing of the commercial history of the PCB business. 15 I know nothing. 16 Q That's fair. 17 A And I have been told nothing. 18 Q That's fair. 19 A I just haven't asked. 20 Q Let me ask you this: Where does Snow Creek 21 flow into? 22 A It eventually flows into Choccolocco Creek. 23 Q Do you understand that PCBs attach to 64 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032608 1 sediment in river systems? 2A Based on what I have been told, it's my 3 belief that they bind the soils and sediments, yes. 4Q Okay. And you have been told this by Mr. 5 Jerry Brown at Monsanto? 6A I'm not sure that I heard that from Jerry 7 Brown. My belief is that that's a -- that that is 8 generally accepted scientific fact about PCBs. So I'm 9 not sure where I heard that from. 10 Q Fair enough. Let me ask you this, sir. 11 Sediments travel within a river system based on water 12 flows and water conditions and stuff like that, right? 13 A I guess that's possible. It's not my area 14 of expertise, sediments and sediment flows. 15 Q Do you believe that you as the plant manager 16 at Anniston from 1991 to 1994 should have been made 17 aware of issues relating to environmental 18 contamination or potential environmental contamination 19 at the Anniston plant regardless of when the 20 contamination occurred? 21 A It's my belief that I was made aware of all 22 the ongoing issues and other issues that had a 23 potential that needed to be acted upon, and there were 65 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032609 1 several issues like that and I was involved with 2 those. 3Q My question, sir, is more pointed than your 4 answer. My question is as the number one manager at 5 the Monsanto plant in Anniston, Alabama do you believe 6 that you should have been made aware of any and all 7 issues relating to environmental contamination at that 8 site whether current or past? 9 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 10 question. 11 A Well, the time period covered by your 12 question is very broad. It also includes quite a 13 variety of different products and processes, and it 14 covers a period of time where when, you know, science, 15 environmental science, and environmental practices was 16 different and changing constantly during that time. 17 So it would be probably impossible to brief me on all 18 of those details. 19 Q Let me limit the question, then. Do you 20 believe as the manager at the Monsanto plant who was 21 charged with the responsibility of overall running of 22 the plant from 1991 to 1994 that you should have been 23 made aware of any environmental issues that were 66 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032610 1 having an impact on the environment during that period 2 of time? 3 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 4 question. 5A I would want -- I would want to know any of 6 those issues, and I believe that I was apprised of all 7 those issues when they became apparent, and that we 8 acted upon them. I mean, one example would be the 9 west end landfill, the Alabama Power property, which I 10 became aware of while I was working there. And we 11 investigated that and that was in progress at the time 12 I transferred to Augusta, Georgia. 13 Q So the answer to my question is yes, you 14 think as the head guy down there at Anniston you 15 should have been made aware of any environmental issue 16 that was having an impact during the time period you 17 were in charge of that plant? 18 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 19 question. Asked and answered. 20 A I would expect to be made aware of issues or 21 facts or causes of concern that was, you know, some 22 sort of new information, some sort of -- any kind of 23 regulatory compliance, other issues that, you know, 67 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032611 1 information that was developed while I was there, yes, 2 I would want to know that. 3Q It makes perfect sense to me. And that 4 would also include environmental issues that were 5 impacting the environment at that time even though the 6 issues -- even though the conduct that gave rise to 7 those issues occurred before you ever came to 8 Anniston, right? Do you understand my question? You 9 would want to know about environmental impact issues 10 during the period of time -- that were occurring 11 during the period of time you were the manager even if 12 what caused those issues happened at the plant before 13 you ever got there? 14 A Yes, I would. And an example I just cited 15 was the west end landfill. 16 Q Right. 17 A That information was developed while I was 18 there and we reacted to that. 19 Q And that west end landfill dealt with PCB 20 contamination, didn't it? 21 A That was one of the materials that was found 22 in the west end landfill, yes. 23 Q And we know that PCBs were manufactured 68 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032612 1 before you ever began -- I mean, stopped -- PCBs were 2 not being manufactured before you ever began working 3 in Anniston? 4A Correct. 5Q All right. It seems to me, sir if -- let me 6 ask you this: While you were the head manager at 7 Anniston, PCB related issues came up and were brought 8 to your attention, correct? 9A Yes. The example I just cited, the west end 10 landfill. 11 Q That's one example. Another example would 12 be the fact that PCBs were being found in Snow Creek, 13 right? 14 A I'm not aware that there was any new 15 information developed on PCBs in Snow Creek during the 16 time I was at the plant. 17 Q You are not aware of any PCB contamination 18 issues relating to Snow Creek during the entire period 19 of time you were at the plant? Is that your testimony 20 under oath today? 21 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 22 question. 23 A Could you repeat -- just repeat the 69 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032613 1 question. 2Q You are not aware of any PCB contaminated 3 issues in Snow Creek during the entire time that you 4 ran the Anniston plant? 5A I'm not aware of any new information that 6 was developed around Snow Creek while I was the plant 7 manager, no. 8Q Did you hear me qualify my question like the 9 way you just answered it, Mr. DeFer? Did you 10 interpret my question as a qualification the way you 11 just answered it? 12 MR. PECK: You don't have to answer that 13 question. 14 Q Yes, you do. 15 MR. PECK: No, you don't. 16 Q Because I want to know where we are having 17 our communication breakdown. Did I qualify my answer 18 -- my question as you've answered it? 19 A And what qualification are you talking 20 about? 21 Q Well, when you say I'm not aware of any new, 22 you talk about new information while you were there. 23 See, that limits your answer. And I didn't qualify my 70 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032614 1 question. What I want to know is are you testifying 2 under oath that you, during the entire period of time 3 you were manager at the Anniston plant, were unaware 4 of any PCB contamination issues in Snow Creek, period? 5 MR. PECK: You can answer that question 6 however it is true for you. He doesn't have to like 7 your answer, Mr. DeFer. 8 THE WITNESS: Okay. 9 MR. PECK: You just answer truthful. 10 A I was aware that there were -- I guess 11 related to Snow Creek I was told -- I never saw any 12 documentation, I was told by others that there was an 13 investigation of PCBs in parts of Snow Creek. It's 14 also my understanding that Monsanto consulted with 15 ADEM on that. It's also my understanding that at some 16 point in time there was some removal of some of those 17 sediments and ADEM was aware of that. 18 Q And all of these people who told you this 19 were Monsanto employees, right? 20 A Yes, I believe that's true. 21 Q So as the plant manager you were, in fact, 22 aware of PCB contaminated issues in Snow Creek during 23 the period of time you were in Anniston? 71 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032615 1 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 2 question. 3A I was aware that there was a historical 4 issue in Snow Creek, and it was my personal belief 5 that the appropriate authorities such as ADEM were 6 involved and that it had been resolved. 7Q When did this issue in your mind get 8 resolved or in your opinion? 9A My opinion based on what I have been told 10 was that the resolution was the removal of some of the 11 sediments. 12 Q Jerry Brown told you this? 13 A Most likely. 14 Q Who else? 15 A Potentially Dave Denner. 16 Q Who? 17 A My predecessor. 18 Q What's his name? 19 A Dave Dinner. 20 Q D-e-n-n-e-r? 21 A Yes. 22 Q All right. Did they tell you that the 23 removal of sediment removed all of the PCBs out of 72 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032616 1 Snow Creek? 2A No, I don't believe they told me that. 3Q Has anyone ever told you that? 4A No, I don't believe that anybody has ever 5 told me that. 6Q Sitting here today do you believe that to be 7 the case? 8 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 9 question. No foundation. 10 A I have never seen any factual, you know, 11 data like sample analysis from Snow Creek that would 12 lead me to say that or that would lead me to affirm or 13 deny that. 14 Q While you were the plant manager in Anniston 15 you were also aware of contamination of PCBs around 16 the neighboring property, weren't you? 17 A Can you be more specific? 18 Q How much more specific can I be than that? 19 A Just a -- okay, a general question about 20 contamination? 21 MR. PECK: You mean that was occurring 22 during the time period he was there? Contamination 23 that was occurring on neighboring property while he 73 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032617 1 was there? Is that what you are asking? 2 MR. GRAMMAS: My question is what it is. 3 MR. PECK: I object to the form of the 4 question. It's very unclear. 5Q Okay. 6A I never -- I was not aware of any factual 7 information that would lead me to believe that, either 8 in history or certainly not while I was there, and I 9 don't recall being told verbally of issues -- other 10 than Snow Creek is what you're asking? I want to make 11 sure that was what you were asking about. 12 Q I was asking about, yeah, neighboring 13 property. 14 A Yeah, neighboring property. 15 Q So you are unaware of a property purchase 16 that Monsanto engaged in to some -- of some of the 17 surrounding neighbors? 18 A I'm not totally unaware of that, but I only 19 became aware of that after I left. That occurred 20 after I left Anniston. 21 Q When did that occur? 22 A I do not know. 23 Q But you do know that the reason Monsanto was 74 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032618 1 buying that property back from people or was buying 2 the property from people around the plant was because 3 PCBs were found to be on their property? 4 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 5 question. Lack of foundation. 6Q Do you know that to be the case? 7A I don't know that to be the specific case. 8 I know that -- I'm told that there was other 9 litigation and other issues going on. I don't know 10 the results of any specifics. 11 Q As the plant manager at Anniston it seems to 12 me, sir, that you would have wanted to educate 13 yourself thoroughly and completely on the issue of 14 potential PCB contamination of neighboring properties, 15 Snow Creek, Choccolocco Creek and Lake Logan Martin 16 while you were employed during that period of time. 17 Is that a fair statement? 18 A I would certainly want to be aware of any 19 current issues related to the operations of the 20 plant. I was not unaware that there had been, you 21 know, other issues -- and we discussed one of them, 22 Snow Creek -- but my belief was that those had been 23 satisfactorily resolved in concert with ADEM. 75 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032619 1Q Okay. You mentioned something about the 2 west end landfill and somehow that related to some PCB 3 issues. Tell me what you know about that. 4A In 1993 we were contacted by Alabama Power 5 about some substance on that property that they had 6 discovered. 7Q And what was that substance? 8A At the time I don't believe they knew. 9 Subsequently, an analysis was done. They -- one of 10 the reasons for contacting us was to get some ideas 11 about what it might be. 12 Q They could actually see it, pick it up, 13 touch it, feel it? 14 A You could see it, yes. 15 Q Pick it up? 16 A If you had wanted to, I guess you could have 17 picked some of it up, yes. It was -- it had become 18 exposed maybe by erosion. 19 Q This substance? 20 A Some of this material, yes. 21 Q Okay. Did they call you personally up as 22 the plant manager or someone under your control? 23 A I don't remember. 76 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032620 1Q Did you ever talk with anybody personally 2 from Alabama Power about this issue? 3A Yes, I did. 4Q All right. We'll get to that in a minute. 5 First of all, how did Alabama Power ever -- how did 6 they ever become involved in this property in the 7 first place? 8A As these conversations developed I became 9 aware that Alabama Power and Monsanto had exchanged 10 some property. 11 Q Do you know when? 12 A I don't recall exactly. I want to say it 13 was the '60s or the '70s, but I just don't recall. 14 Q You can't give me even a decade, late '60s, 15 early '70s, late '70s? 16 A I can't. If you had asked me four years 17 ago, I could have told you. I just don't remember. 18 Q Okay. Go ahead. 19 A Subsequent to that we got -- there was 20 analysis received back. You know, my recollection was 21 that it did indicate that the material contained PCBs, 22 at least some of the material. Some of the other 23 materials were not PCBs. Alabama Power and Monsanto 77 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032621 1 contacted ADEM which was followed by some press 2 release. Again, I'm going from memory. I have not 3 reviewed these documents. And I believe after that it 4 was followed by -- it was -- there were two other 5 things subsequent to that; there was discussions with 6 ADEM between Monsanto and Alabama Power and ADEM 7 about, gee, we've made this discovery, where do we go 8 from here. So there was a discussion about that. And 9 there were discussions between Monsanto and Alabama 10 Power about that property which subsequently led to 11 Monsanto taking title of that property back. 12 And as I recall at the time I transferred to 13 Augusta, the property transfer was complete and we had 14 either received approval from ADEM for preliminary 15 investigation. It was somewhere in that period is my 16 recollection, yes. 17 Q Okay. The substance, how was it first 18 discovered? 19 A I was told an Alabama Power employee 20 discovered it during a, you know, walk-through of the 21 site. It's a fairly large site. It's an industrial 22 site, and it's been there for many years. They have 23 got an old substation, some newer substations and some 78 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032622 1 power distribution lines on that property. 2Q That turned out to be an old landfill that 3 Monsanto used to dump stuff in, didn't it? 4A Subsequent to that discovery, yes, that's 5 when I found out that part of that property was used 6 by Monsanto to dispose of process waste. 7Q Including PCBs? 8A Including materials from the PCB process, 9 including still bottoms from the manufacture of PCBs. 10 Q What are still bottoms? 11 A I'm not an expert in the process so I really 12 -- I don't know specifically. Generically as an 13 engineer still bottoms means you distilled something 14 and it's the product remaining. 15 MR. LOWE: Are you saying distilled or 16 stilled or s-t-i-1-1? 17 A S-t-i-1-1, but normally it means you have 18 distilled something. Still bottom is a generic term. 19 Q Tell me what it means. How would this 20 relate to PCB manufacturing? 21 A I really don't know specifically. I just 22 know that in the manufacture of PCBs, and there was a 23 range of PCBs, I understand, that in some of that 79 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032623 1 processing steps you had a by-product that they called 2 still bottoms. 3Q I mean - 4A It probably would have been -- again, this 5 is total speculation on my part. 6Q I understand. 7A It would likely have been a final step 8 where, you know, you are purifying something, you 9 probably distill it off and then you have got this 10 residual material. 11 Q So the residual material then is more or 12 less an unwanted by-product of the process of 13 manufacturing PCBs? 14 A In this case, that's my understanding it 15 was. 16 Q And that by-product contained highly 17 concentrated levels of PCBs? 18 A Some of the still bottoms did contain PCBs. 19 I'm not sure they all did because not all of the still 20 bottoms -- not all of the products produced in that 21 unit -- Aroclor was a trade name, not all of them 22 would be characterized as PCBs. 23 Q Okay. But the ones that were characterized 80 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032624 1 as PCBs had high levels of PCBs contained in the still 2 bottoms? 3A I don't know the exact levels, but, yes, 4 there were PCBs there. 5Q And Monsanto knowingly and intentionally put 6 those still bottoms in a landfill on-site for 7 disposal? 8A Yes, those still bottoms were placed on-site 9 by Monsanto. 10 Q Knowingly and intentionally? 11 A Yes, given the practices at the time. You 12 know, practices and the science has changed quite a 13 bit. At the time that was considered a very 14 responsible way of handling that material. 15 Q Looking back at hindsight, we know that that 16 was a very irresponsible way of handling that 17 disposal, don't we? 18 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 19 question. 20 A Well, you know, that occurred long before I 21 arrived. And -- boy, I don't want to judge something 22 that occurred before me. That doesn't seem fair. 23 Q Using today's standards, we know that that 81 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032625 1 process of putting those PCBs in a landfill would not 2 be tolerated, don't we? 3 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 4 question. No foundation. 5A Well, I'm not an expert on disposal of PCBs, 6 but it's my belief that -- I don't know if it is still 7 currently allowed. I mean, land disposal of PCBs was 8 allowed up to very recently. And PCBs that are land 9 disposed, if they are properly capped, PCBs adhere to 10 the soil, that's not necessarily -- you know, that 11 could be a very responsible way of disposing the PCBs. 12 I'm sure that was Monsanto's intent at the time. 13 Q When we spoke a while ago about Monsanto 14 sewering treated process waste water, do you remember 15 that? 16 A Uh-huh. 17 Q They intentionally, the employees at 18 Monsanto intentionally sewered that product, did they 19 not? 20 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 21 question. Lack of foundation. 22 Q To your understanding and knowledge. That 23 was part of the normal manufacturing process, to 82 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032626 1 intentionally dispose of the waste water? 2 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 3 question. Lack of foundation. 4A I don't have specific process knowledge, but 5 if you say was it the intention to dispose of waste 6 water, typically that's what is done in a process, you 7 typically have normal process streams that are 8 normally disposed of that way, that's true. 9Q So Alabama Power employees were walking 10 through the site and visibly observed some substance 11 on the property; is that your testimony? 12 A That's what I was told by Alabama Power, 13 yes. 14 Q Was this substance like oozing from the 15 ground, or how did it appear? 16 A I wouldn't characterize it as oozing. 17 Oozing sort of implies something that's moving. It 18 was a black substance, and it was -- it was not on a 19 level ground. It was sort of on a slanted surface and 20 some of this material had become exposed. 21 Q Did you physically see it? 22 A I physically saw it, yes. I did go over and 23 look at the property. 83 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032627 1Q And it was exposed from the surface, is that 2 what you are talking about? When you say exposed, 3 what do you mean? 4A There was a -- this property actually had, 5 you know, as I recall, two main elevations. There's 6 an area up here and then there was a sloping area, and 7 then there was a flat area. It was along this slope, 8 as I recall, where it was seen (indicating). 9Q Now, that's just where it was seen, but this 10 substance, as you are calling it, was certainly in 11 other places in the landfill other than just where it 12 was seen, right? 13 A At the time -- at the time I was in 14 Anniston, I don't -- well, there weren't any specific 15 studies to really characterize all those wastes in a 16 landfill. That's a hard thing to do after the fact. 17 I don't know since those wastes were placed there long 18 ago, I don't know exactly where they were placed over 19 there. I don't know that any records exist. As far as 20 I know, they don't exist. 21 Q If I'm understanding your testimony, then, 22 is it true that y'all, being Monsanto, did not go into 23 this landfill and remove all of that, all these 84 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032628 1 substances from the landfill? 2A You are speaking of the west end landfill? 3Q Right. 4A And you are speaking -- you are talking not 5 in the last several years? 6Q I'm talking about when Alabama Power came up 7 to y'all and said, what in the world is this stuff in 8 this property? And then y'all went out there and 9 said, oh, my gosh, that's some kind of substance, 10 let's see what it is, and then y'all tested it and you 11 confirmed in your minds that PCBs were in whatever 12 this was, did y'all at that point say, wait a minute 13 we have got a problem here, let's go out there and 14 take all this substance out of this landfill? Yes or 15 no? 16 A No, we did not do that. We informed ADEM 17 that it was there, and my recollection as part of that 18 information was that part of the property was 19 immediately covered, cover was provided over it. 20 Q So whatever it was that was containing these 21 PCBs is still in the ground out there at the west end 22 landfill, right? 23 A I can't speak to what's happened since I 85 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032629 1 left the plant. I don't have any knowledge that it -- 2Q As of the day you left the plant it was 3 still in the ground covered up? 4A During the time I was there in Anniston from 5 '91 to '94 we didn't -- we, Monsanto did not do any 6 removal of materials from the west end landfill. 7Q So isn't that a fancy way of saying, sir, 8 that at the time you left the stuff you found was 9 still in the ground? 10 A Now that I've qualified the question, my 11 answer is, yes, it was still in the ground. I just 12 wanted to make sure I was talking about the right 13 material and the right landfill. 14 Q Okay. All right. How much did you buy the 15 property back from Alabama Power? 16 A We did not buy it back from -- well, it 17 might have been a dollar or it might have been -- I 18 don't remember. I do not remember. They transferred 19 title back to us was the agreement, and I can't 20 remember if we paid them for the transfer. 21 Q Why would they give you property that has 22 value for nothing? 23 A The intent at the time was to bring that 86 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032630 1 property back under Monsanto's control so that we 2 could have the -- so we could most expeditiously 3 investigate and do what needed to be done to address 4 those issues. 5Q You were threatened with litigation by 6 Alabama Power if you did not accept the property back, 7 weren't you? 8A I don't recall a specific threat like that. 9Q Nobody at Alabama Power said, wait a minute, 10 y'all swapped up some property and it's got a bunch of 11 PCBs in it and we know that's an environmental problem 12 and we don't want anything to do with this property. 13 You better take this property back from us or we are 14 going to sue you, or words to that effect? You are 15 saying that was never even mentioned by anybody at 16 Alabama Power? 17 A I don't recall that entire statement as you 18 have just said to me by anybody at Alabama Power. 19 Q I didn't say that it had to be verbatim and 20 I didn't say it had to be to you. Alabama Power is a 21 very large company, would you agree with me about 22 that? 23 A Yes, they are. 87 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032631 CO CO 1Q And Monsanto is a very large company, 2 would you agree with me about that? 3A Uh-huh. 4Q So you're the man in charge of the Monsanto 5 plant at this time, right? 6A Yes. 7Q When the issue developed? 8A Yes. 9Q It seems to me that it just -- common sense 10 tells me, sir, that when two big companies like that 11 get together on a deal like that, one of them -- 12 Alabama Power is going to say, wait a minute, y'all 13 gave us some property that's got PCBs in it, and we 14 don' t want it, take it back or face some lawsuit. 15 Now, I 'm saying in general terms from anybody at 16 Alabama Power to anybody at Monsanto, did that idea 17 ever - - was that idea ever presented to you through 18 anyone 7 19 A No, I wouldn't characterize it that way 20 because from the very beginning it was Monsanto's 21 intent to take that property back. 22 Q You mean, from the very beginning when they 23 said there is a substance on it, or from after -- tell Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032632 1 me that, when did Monsanto decide to take the property 2 back? 3A That idea developed pretty quickly after we 4 discovered it was PCBs. 5Q That's where I'm going to. Monsanto did not 6 have any thoughts or ideas of reclaiming this property 7 from Alabama Power until it learned that this 8 substance was in fact PCBs? 9A What I would say is until -- when we learned 10 that there was an issue that needed to be addressed, 11 it could have been some other substance. In this case 12 it was PCBs that was cause for the immediate question. 13 Q And once you learned, you being Monsanto, 14 learned that it was PCBs, no questions asked, Alabama 15 Power gives the property back, right? 16 A Oh, I wouldn't say there was no questions 17 asked. 18 Q But you didn't pay them any money for that 19 property, did you? 20 A I don't believe we did. 21 Q And that's because the property wasn't worth 22 anything, was it? 23 A No, I wouldn't characterize it that way. 89 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032633 1Q The property is a liability, isn't it? 2A There are things -- Monsanto has spent money 3 investigating that site and will likely spend more 4 money. So from that standpoint, yes, there have been 5 funds expended related to that property. 6Q Monsanto couldn't sell that property to 7 anybody right now, could it? 8A Well, I wouldn't want to make that 9 speculation. I don't know that Monsanto would want to 10 sell the property to anybody else. 11 Q Let's assume that Monsanto wanted to get 12 rid of the property that contained all of these PCBs, 13 what would it do to do that? Let me ask you this: If 14 Monsanto chose to sell this property, would it not 15 have to disclose to the purchaser that PCBs were on 16 the site? 17 A Well, I don't know that Monsanto - 18 MR. PECK: Let me object to the form of the 19 question. Lack of foundation. Go ahead. 20 A Well, you are asking me a hypothetical about 21 whether or not Monsanto would sell the property. And, 22 again, it's been since 1994 when I was involved with 23 this property. So I'm making a speculation based on 90 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032634 1 what I know. I don't believe that Monsanto would sell 2 the property. 3Q I understand that, Mr. DeFer. What I'm 4 saying is if Monsanto wanted to sell it, okay? If 5 they wanted to, could they sell it to anybody without 6 telling them PCBs are in there? 7 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 8 question. Lack of foundation. 9Q As you understand it. 10 A I can't -- I can't address -- again, it's a 11 speculative question, and you've asked me to make 12 that, you know. 13 Q Right. Let me ask you this: If you knew 14 that you owned property that contained PCBs in it, 15 much like this west end landfill, would you personally 16 sell that property to someone without telling them 17 about it? 18 A No, I would not, and I don't believe 19 Monsanto would today using today's standards and 20 today's knowledge. 21 Q That's all I'm asking. It's not a difficult 22 question but you hesitated answering it. I mean, it's 23 a simple question. Monsanto wouldn't sell that 91 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032635 1 property without telling people PCBs are in it, I hope 2 not. All right. Did y'all ever determine the amount 3 of PCBs in the property? 4A Not that I'm aware of. I'm not aware that 5 there was an exact amount determined. 6Q How about a general amount? 7A My -- during the time I was there I think 8 there was an attempt to understand the size of the 9 landfill and that work was done. But, no, I don't 10 know that we were able to determine what percent of 11 that might have been related to the PCB process. 12 Q So Monsanto, if I understand you correctly 13 during the entire time that this issue came up, never 14 even bothered to determine how many pounds of PCBs 15 were stored in this west end landfill? 16 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 17 question. Mischaracterizes his testimony. 18 A I don't think Monsanto was able to make that 19 determination. It's not that they didn't bother and 20 didn't care to make it, I don't think they were able 21 to make it. 22 Q Let me ask you this, sir: If Monsanto went 23 in and dug up this entire area and replaced all of 92 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032636 1 this landfill with clean fresh uncontaminated 2 landfill, wouldn't it have been possible for them to 3 determine exactly how many pounds of PCBs were in the 4 landfill? 5 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 6 question. Lack of foundation. 7A I don't know the answer to that. I don't 8 know how you would go about doing that. 9Q Was it ever even discussed with you that 10 Monsanto would remove this dirt, this landfill dirt, 11 from that area including all the PCBs contained in it? 12 A No, it never was. That would have been a 13 premature discussion in terms of we needed to 14 understand the site first, understand what the issues 15 were. 16 Q Okay. So y'all never even -- it never even 17 crossed your desk on a memo on any discussions or 18 anything that Monsanto would say, hey, we need to get 19 these PCBs out of this land right here? And if the 20 answer is no, that's fine. 21 A I don't recall that discussion or any 22 discussions like that or any -- you know, that was not 23 the main issue. The main issue when I was there was 93 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032637 1 let's understand -- let's characterize what's there. 2 Let's understand what's going on with the site and 3 what actions need to be taken. 4Q But you didn't understand what was going on 5 at the site in terms of discovering how much PCBs were 6 in that site, did you? 7A I don't think we were able the make that 8 determination. 9Q Why is that? Why were you not able to make 10 that determination, sir? What prevented Monsanto from 11 determining how much pounds of PCBs were in that 12 landfill? 13 A We didn't -- I don't know that there was any 14 historical records that indicated that. 15 Q What physically prevented Monsanto from 16 going out there and discovering exactly how many 17 pounds of PCBs were stored in that landfill? 18 A Well, there are things that could be done, 19 I'm suspecting probably have been done, maybe since 20 I've left to characterize what is there. But, you 21 know, as I understand what you're saying, you're 22 saying, gee, tell me how many pounds of this 23 by-product was put there. And short of actually 94 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032638 1 having that information, I don't know that you can 2 develop that exact answer. The main concern would be 3 on in the initial investigation is let's characterize 4 the site, let's look at it from an exposure 5 standpoint, you know, how might people be exposed to 6 this material, and that was the initial focus. 7Q I understand what your initial focus was. 8 And just so the people who are going to be reading 9 your deposition or listening to your testimony 10 understand, Monsanto never did anything to determine 11 how many pounds of PCBs were in this site while you - 12 at least while you were there? 13 A During the time I was there and we were 14 investigating the west end landfill, we were unable to 15 determine how many pounds of PCBs were there. 16 Q Well, we have already been through that. 17 We'll go through it again. When you say unable, that 18 means something prevented you from doing it, is that 19 what you're saying? 20 A My belief is there weren't any records. 21 Q Okay. We've already talked about records. 22 Was there anything that physically prevented Monsanto 23 from going out and weighing, determining how many 95 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032639 1 pounds of PCBs were in the landfill? 2 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 3 question. Asked and answered. He already explained 4 to you it wasn't possible. 5 MR. GRAMMAS: It has been asked several 6 times and it has never been answered. 7 MR. PECK: Well, you just don't like the 8 answers, Pete. 9 MR. GRAMMAS: I don't like evasive answers. 10 You're exactly right. And if this witness would 11 answer the questions, Adam, we could go on to the next 12 topic. 13 Q (By Mr. Grammas) What did you do to 14 determine how many pounds of PCBs were there? 15 MR. PECK: You need to stop asking the same 16 question over and over again and we could go on to the 17 next topic. 18 MR. GRAMMAS: Look, I'm going to ask 19 questions until there is an answer. 20 MR. PECK: I have noticed you ask the same 21 question over and over again, how you go about taking 22 depositions it takes all day. That's all I've 23 noticed. 96 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032640 1Q (By Mr. Grammas) All right. What did you 2 do to determine how many pounds of PCBs were there, if 3 anything? 4A Well, a moment ago you mentioned -- you 5 know, you have mentioned weighing the material. I 6 don't know how you weigh something when it's already 7 in the ground. 8Q Well, how about digging it out of the ground 9 and separating it from the dirt and looking at it and 10 seeing what you've got? 11 A Well, while I was there, during the time I 12 was in Anniston, it would have been -- in my personal 13 belief it would have been premature and irresponsible 14 to dig that material up, expose all of it for the sole 15 purpose of figuring out exactly how much was there as 16 the driving intent. 17 Q Would it have been premature to dig that 18 material up and remove it from the site completely so 19 there is no possibility that it will ever leak out of 20 this site and get into neighboring property? Is there 21 anything wrong with doing that? 22 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 23 question. Lack of foundation. 97 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032641 1A You're asking a remediation type question, 2 as I understand it, and that's a complicated topic. 3 And you would have to -- you would want to consider, 4 are you creating worse of a problem by digging it up 5 and exposing it and moving it than leaving it there 6 and doing some other things. 7 MR. GRAMMAS: Let's take a break. Let's 8 take a thirty minute break, Adam, because I have got a 9 lot of stuff to go over. 10 (A brief recess was taken.) 11 Q Before we took our break, Mr. DeFer, we were 12 talking about the Alabama Power property that Monsanto 13 reacquired after y'all learned that PCBs were 14 contaminating. And one of the things you mentioned 15 earlier is that an Alabama Power employee noticed some 16 black substance on the ground as he was doing a 17 walk-through of the property. Does that fairly 18 summarize what you said earlier? 19 A That's my understanding. 20 Q Was that before or after Alabama Power did 21 any work on that property? 22 A Work meaning -- broadly defined. 23 Q Did Alabama Power do anything like -- what 98 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032642 1 were they going to do with the property that you gave 2 them? 3A Oh, okay. Again, I'm not the best person to 4 comment on this, but here is what I know. Here is 5 what I believe to be true. When we transferred the - 6 when we did this transfer of property, Monsanto 7 eventually used the property we acquired for some 8 waste water treatment facilities and they used 9 portions of the land that they acquired from us to 10 expand their substations. As part of that, obviously, 11 it did correction activities on the site and grading 12 associated with that kind of work. 13 Q All right. At the time that this Alabama 14 Power employee noticed this black substance on the 15 surface of the ground, had they done any construction 16 work on the site? 17 A I don't recall that there was any recent 18 construction. 19 Q So that was observed before AlabamaPower 20 began digging or anything like that on the site? 21 A Well -- 22 Q As far as - 23 A -- in the history of theirownership, they 99 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032643 1 had moved soils and such to facilitate their use of 2 the property. But this was noticed before any kind of 3 digging or capping might have been done in response to 4 what was observed. Does that make sense? 5Q Right. I think it does. You don't know how 6 long they owned that property? 7A Again, late '60s or early '70s. I'm sorry I 8 don't have -- you know, I can't remember the exact 9 date. I know you asked that earlier. 10 MR. PECK: I can tell you it's 1960. 11 MR. GRAMMAS: It's 1960? 12 A There you go. I was off. 13 Q Good enough. They owned it from 1960 until 14 y'all reacquired it in, what, around 1994? 15 A It might actually have been the very end of 16 '93, early '94 when the deed was transferred, but 17 somewhere around there. 18 Q Now, from the time that Alabama Power had 19 it, Monsanto didn't use that property for any reason 20 whatsoever? 21 A No. In fact, it was fenced off, and the 22 only people that had access to that property, you 23 know, for safety reasons, were Alabama Power employees 100 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032644 1 who worked around high voltage kind of equipment. 2Q So based on this acquisition date that Mr. 3 Peck just told us to be 1960, is it a fair statement 4 to say that any PCBs that were in that property from 5 Monsanto Manufacturing must have been put in there 6 sometime before 1960? 7A If it came from Monsanto's manufacturing 8 process, that seems like a fair assumption. 9Q And you will readily admit that the PCBs 10 that were found came from Monsanto's manufacturing 11 process? 12 MR. PECK: That you've been talking about? 13 MR. GRAMMAS: Right. 14 A It's my belief that they came from 15 Monsanto's manufacturing process, yes. 16 Q What do you base that belief on? 17 A The physical form that it was found in and I 18 think the composition. Again, I don't understand the 19 science, but my recollection is that's what I was told 20 at the time was, yes, it's consistent with this type 21 of by-product from our process. 22 Q Who did you delegate -- first of all, when 23 did this -- around 1993 I thought you said is when 101 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032645 1 this Alabama Power person noticed the substance? 2A Late spring, maybe. Again, I'm just 3 recollecting. 4Q And the substance was on a slope I believe 5 you said? 6A I think it was. 7Q And, obviously, rain water had been falling 8 on it? 9A Well, that whole area was exposed to 10 rainfall, right. 11 Q And all that rainfall went where, sir, from 12 that area? 13 A Generally -- I don't know the exact detail 14 and flow, but general the rainfall would have drained 15 -- let me get reoriented. Would have drained, I 16 guess, towards the north end of the property. 17 Q And that would have gone directly into Snow 18 Creek, wouldn't it? 19 MR. PECK: Object to the form of question. 20 A I think -- not directly into Snow Creek but 21 some of the runoff from that property I believe could 22 have went into Snow Creek, yes. 23 Q Where else? What other creeks or 102 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032646 1 tributaries could that runoff have gone into besides 2 Snow Creek? 3A I'm not aware of that. I'm not aware of any 4 other place. 5Q So sitting here today, sir, the only 6 tributary you are aware of that would have captured 7 the runoff from this landfill where PCBs were 8 discovered was Snow Creek? 9 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 10 question. 11 A To the extent that there was rain water on 12 the site and that it ran off and it didn't evaporate, 13 you know, in some intermediate place and there was 14 significant enough rain, the only one that I'm aware 15 of, yes, eventually it would have been into some 16 tributary that would eventually wind into Snow Creek. 17 Again, I don't have a map, but I think that's true. 18 There may be, you know, small portions of the property 19 that don't drain that way, but generally it sloped 20 away from Highway 202. 21 Q To Snow Creek? 22 A Actually, SnowCreek is not backbehind 23 there.Snow Creek, I think if my memory is right, is 103 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032647 1 east of there. So it's -- if it were, you know, to 2 the extent that it gets to Snow Creek, it's going 3 through some other tributary. 4Q Did you just change your testimony? 5A No, I don't think so. 6Q What you've said is still accurate with 7 regard to Snow Creek being - 8A In a significant rainfall event, storm water 9 runoff would have eventually -- could have gone into a 10 tributary of Snow Creek, yes. 11 Q Could have or would have? 12 A Some parts of the site it's probably likely. 13 But, again, I didn't look at a study, you know. I 14 don't want to say would have and then one hundred 15 percent of it would not have. That's my only -- 16 Q I understand your reservation - 17 A -- reservation. 18 Q -- but on the parts of the site that is 19 likely that water would have runoff from that west end 20 landfill into Snow Creek, it is just as likely that 21 water running over PCBs carrying those PCBs to Snow 22 Creek would have carried PCBs there, true? 23 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 104 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032648 1 question. Lack of foundation. 2A Again, that's outside my area of expertise. 3 And my -- you know, my belief is that PCBs are adhered 4 to the soil and they're not very mobile. But to the 5 extent that it was possible for them to be in the 6 storm water, yes, that's a possible place they could 7 have went. 8Q And also storm water carries sediment in the 9 soil too, doesn't it? 10 A It can at times. 11 Q Sure. And the PCBs that were attached to 12 the soils and sediments in that storm water also went 13 into Snow Creek as far as you know? 14 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 15 question. Lack of foundation. 16 A I don't know that to be a fact -- 17 Q Well, let me - 18 A -- that it actually happened, which is I 19 think the way you've asked the question. 20 Q It absolutely is the way I asked it. 21 A And I don't knowthat it actually happened. 22 Q All right. Were you the man that decided to 23 cap this landfill once you discovered this problem by 105 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032649 1 Alabama Power and reacquired the land? 2A No. 3Q Who made that decision? 4A First of all, let me clarify. If you're - 5 while I was there there was some immediate cover that 6 was applied to that property. 7Q What kind of cover? 8A I believe it was some type of, you know, a 9 type of clay cover, I believe. That's my 10 recollection. 11 Q Someone with a truck came in with a 12 bulldozer and put dirt on top of it? 13 A That's my recollection. 14 Q Did you order that? 15 A Actually, I think Alabama Power might have 16 done that. It was still their property at the time. 17 Once the material was discovered certainly it was 18 Alabama Power and Monsanto's aim that immediate 19 measures be taken. And after discussions with ADEM, 20 that was one of the steps that was taken. To the 21 extent that you're referring to some other capping, I 22 can't -- you know, that occurred after I left. I 23 can't comment on that. 106 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032650 Q Who did you relay this information to when you first learned about it? First of all, how did you personally first learn about it? A It was more than likely either Robert Jones or myself got a phone call. And I just cannot remember. Q From Alabama Power? A Yeah, it would have been -Q Who placed the phone call? A It could have been one of their technical people in town. It could have even possibly been their regional vice-president Q Who was that at the time? A A gentleman named Ronnie Smith. Q Did you discuss this matter in detail with Mr. Smith at any time? A I did discuss it in some detail with Ronnie. Q Okay. A And there were discussions with other Alabama Power people Q Who are the other people at Alabama Power? A I don't recollect their exact names, I really don't 107 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032651 1Q All right. After you learned of this, what 2 was the first step you took? 3A Probably the very first step was to get as 4 much detailed, you know, information as we could from 5 Alabama Power. 6Q Did you report it to anybody immediately? 7A The fact that there was some unknown 8 substance was visible over there, that was reported, 9 yes. 10 Q To whom? 11 A That was reported within Monsanto to -- it 12 certainly would have gone a couple of places. One 13 would have been to the environmental affairs person 14 that had functional responsibility for our plant. And 15 it also would have went to a group in Monsanto that 16 had accountability for closed paths, you know, waste 17 sites, plant sites. 18 Q Tell me who those people are. 19 A The latter group was led by a gentleman 20 named Mike Foresman. The former person -- I am not 21 sure who that was at the time, there was a change. 22 I'm not sure. 23 Q So I'm hearing what you are saying is when 108 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032652 1 y'all learned there was some substance out there in 2 the property that you exchanged with Alabama Power, 3 before you even found out what the substance was, one 4 of the first steps you took as the man running this 5 plant down in Anniston was to pick up the phone and 6 let Mike Foresman know about it? 7A Right. And that would have been consistent 8 with our procedures. That's property we did not own. 9 You know, the fact that it could have been adjacent 10 or, you know, several miles away, being informed about 11 an issue and having it linked to Monsanto in any way 12 is something that I would have reported, and I did. 13 Q Who else did you report it to internally? 14 A Obviously, I'm sure there were discussions 15 with some members of the Anniston plant team, and I'm 16 sure at some point in time my boss, you know, line 17 management was probably informed. 18 Q Who was your boss? 19 A My boss at the time was a gentleman named 20 Robert Jones. 21 Q Do you know where he is today? 22 MR. PECK: Robert Jones? 23 THE WITNESS: Same name. One is Robert T. 109 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032653 1 Jones and one is Robert N. Jones or -- I forget the 2 middle initials. 3 MR. PECK: Robert Jones is the local 4 environmental guy. 5A Yeah, there is two Robert Joneses. This is 6 another Robert Jones. Bob Jones is what everybody - 7 what he went by. 8Q Who besides Mr. Foresman and Mr. Jones did 9 you report this to? 10 A In terms of? 11 Q And this -- I guess the guy you can't 12 remember his name. 13 A I don't recollect, you know, talking to 14 anybody else about it inside the company. Certainly 15 it would have included that group of people. 16 Q What role did Mr. Foresman play after he 17 was notified of this potential problem? 18 A In general, you know, Mike's role in those 19 kind of situations, you know, consultative and to - 20 both in terms of knowledge of regulations and, you 21 know, the practice of waste disposal and remediation. 22 So that's the kind of advice Mike would have given us. 23 Q He was in charge of the remediation 110 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032654 1 department at Monsanto, wasn't he, at that time? 2A Yes, he was. 3Q As a matter of fact, he still is in charge 4 of that remediation responsibilities, which is now 5 Solutia, right? 6A I think so. I'm not a Solutia employee 7 anymore so I wouldn't myself really know that. 8Q Mr. Foresman would have been the man who can 9 -- or is the man who can answer questions as to what 10 it was that Monsanto did, why they did it, why they 11 didn't remove the PCBs from this site and those types 12 of questions; is that a fair statement? 13 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 14 question. 15 Q As far as you understand the hierarchy at 16 Monsanto. 17 A Mike has that functional accountability, 18 yes. Now, to the extent that he's going to have a 19 specific answer to a question you want, I can't speak 20 for Mike. 21 Q But whether he has the specific answer to 22 the questions I ask or not, Monsanto charged him with 23 the responsibility of dealing with these types of Ill Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032655 1 issues that we are talking about with respect to this 2 landfill and the Alabama Power project? 3A That was his functional accountability and 4 we in cooperation with the local plant sites, yes, it 5 is his accountability. 6Q When you say it's his functional 7 accountability, are you telling me that's something 8 he's supposed to know? 9A Well, it could be somebody on his team. He 10 actually had a staff of people that worked for him. 11 It could be one of his people. I guess what I'm 12 saying is I don't know that Mike -- and I can't 13 remember this. It wouldn't be right to imply that 14 every decision that was made and has been made 15 subsequent to my leaving that Mike made each one of 16 those. That wouldn't be fair, probably, to 17 characterize it that way. I'm sure that's not the 18 case. 19 Q Functional accountability means that this is 20 something that comes under his instruction, authority, 21 direction, and responsibility, right? 22 A Yes. 23 Q Can you think of any other person that would 112 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032656 be responsible for this? And when I say this, I'm talking about, again, the exchange of land between Monsanto -A Oh, okay. Q Back from Alabama Power to Monsanto in dealing with the PCB contamination issues once you learned they were there. A Well, it's implicit in some of the answers I've already given. But obviously, I was part of that process as were some other people at the plant. And s ome o f the other people on Mike Foresman's team. Q Anybody above Mr. Foresman? A No, not the way you've defined it. Q What about Mr. Pierle? A Not the way you've defined it. That would be my opinion Q Do you know who Bob Cheever is? A I know Bob a little bit. Q Did he ever work with you? A No. Q Are you aware of any internal reports or memoranda that were generated within Monsanto that discussed the issue of PCB contamination on this 113 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032657 1 landfill? 2A On the west end landfill? 3Q Yes. 4A No, I'm not aware of any. Well, I shouldn't 5 say -- let me qualify that. Obviously, there were 6 probably plans of study that were prepared, and that 7 would have been near the end of '93, '94 in terms of 8 getting consensus and approval from ADEM. I'm aware 9 of those types of documents, yes. 10 Q What was Mr. Foresman's role in this whole 11 issue relating to the Alabama Power landfill PCB site 12 as far as you understand it? 13 A Well, Mike worked with the plant, myself, 14 and others to map out the right course of action to 15 take. 16 Q So Mr. Foresman was the man who decided what 17 action Monsanto would take with respect to this PCB 18 contamination site that it discovered after the 19 Alabama Power employees saw this black whatever on the 20 property? 21 A Again, I would say that Mike did not make 22 every decision. He did not make every recommendation. 23 This wasn't his work product. I wouldn't want to 114 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032658 1 characterize it that way. Was Mike aware of the 2 significant decisions and milestones? Yes, he was. 3Q Whose work product was it? 4A Could have been -- I'm sure Robert Jones 5 supplied some of that input. It could have been our 6 hydrogeological consultants. 7Q Who was that? 8A Garrety & Miller. 9Q Where is Robert T. Jones currently employed? 10 A You mean the one in Anniston or the one in 11 St. Louis -- the one that used to be my boss? I'm 12 confused now. 13 MR. PECK: Why don't you call the local guy 14 Robert Jones and the - 15 THE WITNESS: St. Louis guy Bob. 16 MR. PECK: -- St. Louis guy Bob Jones. 17 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 18 Q Well, who is Robert T. Jones? 19 A I think Robert T. Jones is the gentleman in 20 Anniston. 21 Q Well, I'm more concerned about your boss - 22 A Oh, the guy that was my boss at the time. 23 Q -- Bob Jones. 115 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032659 1A I believe he is still employed by Solutia. 2Q In St. Louis? 3A I think so, yeah. 4Q And you think Bob Jones may have had some 5 involvement in the remediation efforts on this site? 6A Not directly. 7Q What I'm getting at is this: I want to know 8 the man where the buck stopped at Monsanto to say, 9 let's remediate it, let's not remediate it, let's do 10 this, let's do that. Whatever the decisions were, I 11 want to know that man so I can sit him at a deposition 12 and talk to him about what he did. 13 MR. PECK: Assuming that man exists. 14 Q Well, somebody exist at Monsanto that did 15 that, doesn't he? 16 A It was definitely a team approach that we 17 did that. And in terms of the approach and the 18 technology and, you know, how all that was managed. 19 From a technical and regulatory point of view, yes, I 20 guess I would say that, you know, Mike had the final 21 -- would have had the final approval authority for 22 that. Not that we operated in that environment, that 23 he approved everything, but, yes, if there was 116 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032660 1 something that we were unsure of and we needed advice, 2 we would have went to Mike and conversely if there was 3 something he was concerned about, he would have told 4 us. 5Q What I want to know is - 6 MR. PECK: Let's clarify something. Both 7 Pierle and Foresman are named Mike. Which one are 8 you talking about? 9 THE WITNESS: Mike Foresman. 10 Q I guess what I'm trying to get at here is 11 Mr. Foresman was the person charged with the 12 responsibility of making the final decision. And I 13 know that he had a lot of input. I know this wasn't 14 the only thing he was working on at that time. And I 15 know he wasn't out there looking at the dirt 16 physically and testing and all those type of things, 17 but he was the man at Monsanto that ultimately decided 18 what, if anything, was going to be done about this 19 issue, as far as you understand? 20 A It wasn't solely his decision, but, yes, I 21 would say he had the final accountability. 22 Q He had the final accountability about 23 whether or not Monsanto would even retake the property 117 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032661 1 from Alabama Power after they demanded you to do so, 2 right? 3A Since property was involved I don't know 4 that he had the final and total accountability. That 5 probably included people in the legal department and 6 others. 7Q Like who? 8A Just from a land real estate perspective, I 9 don't know. That's one issue. From an environmental 10 perspective, I do not know which attorney was 11 involved. I can't remember. 12 Q Did Mr. Foresman have to get authority from 13 anyone above him from a financial standpoint about 14 what to do to fix this problem that y'all discovered? 15 A I don't know so much from a -- I don't know 16 the answer to financial. He probably did just because 17 it was a property transfer. 18 Q Who would he have gone to? 19 A I do not recall. It would have had to have 20 been someone that had approval authority for property 21 transactions. 22 Q What year was the Monsanto pledge enacted? 23 A I can't remember specifics. In the '80s -- 118 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032662 1 it was enacted in the '80s, I believe. Since 1979 2 because it was enacted after I became an employee, and 3 I think it was in the '80s. 4Q Have you ever seen the Monsanto pledge 5 before? 6A Yes, I have. There has been several 7 versions of it. It's been updated periodically 8 through the years. 9Q Did y'all have to do anything to adopt this 10 pledge? I mean, when I became a lawyer, I had to take 11 an oath that I would be an officer of the court and 12 all the other things that I had to swear to. When 13 this pledge was adopted, did Monsanto managers, 14 employees or anything have to do anything to adopt 15 this oath as their own oath? 16 A Well, not formally like you're asking. At 17 the time the pledge was adopted most of the pledge 18 elements, my recollection is, weren't required by law, 19 that was sort of the intent of the pledge was to go 20 beyond what was required by the law. And in many 21 cases these were new initiatives. So there were - 22 there would have been discussions about, gee, how are 23 we going to implement these elements of the pledge and 119 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032663 1 on what timetable. 2Q Is it safe to characterize the Monsanto 3 pledge as self-imposed obligations by Monsanto? 4A It's a challenge that we set for ourself and 5 set at internal expectations, yes, it was. 6Q Expectations or obligations? Wasn't each 7 and every plant manager required to follow the 8 mandates of the Monsanto pledge? 9A Actually, as the pledge was implemented, if 10 you think about a little bit of the history, first, 11 for some period of time it would have been physically 12 impossible to do that. It took time to do that. 13 Also, as we moved forward and looked at different 14 situations there were exceptions that were made and 15 some of those exceptions I think later on became 16 embodied as further revisions of the pledge. The 17 pledge was -- it was internal guidance and how we 18 wanted to conduct ourselves environmentally. 19 Q And one of the things that you pledged to 20 do and you told the world that you were going to do as 21 Monsanto, was to rectify past harms, correct? 22 A I don't remember the specifics of, you know, 23 that pledge element because there is quite a few of 120 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032664 1 them. But if you mean did it speak to ceased 2 operations, for example, and sites, I think it did. 3Q That's not what I asked you. Rectify past 4 harms, what does that mean to you? 5 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 6 question. You have it in the document. The document 7 speaks for itself. 8Q What does it mean to rectify past harms, 9 sir? 10 MR. PECK: Same objection. 11 A I don't believe the guidelines said that. 12 Q What does it mean to rectify past harms in 13 your mind? 14 A My personal opinion what does it mean? 15 Q Right. 16 A Is that what you are asking? Rectify means 17 to some extent that you're going to address something 18 and do something about it, and that's what that 19 means. Harm is a little more subjective term. From 20 an environmental standpoint, I think the pledge speaks 21 to being proactive and working with regulators and 22 moving forward expeditiously and doing the right thing 23 for, you know, closed sites and waste areas, et 121 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032665 1 cetera. 2Q I did not hear in your definition of 3 rectifying past harms cleaning up contaminated areas 4 with PCBs. Would that fall under that scenario in 5 your mind? 6A Not necessarily and because I wouldn't want 7 to create an issue. You know, in addressing an issue 8 of PCBs or PCB by-products, you wouldn't want to 9 recklessly go in and do something or move something 10 without thinking through the consequences of that. 11 Q I didn't say -- I never said that, sir. I'm 12 saying you can think through all the consequences and 13 debate everything, come up with the best feasible way 14 to remove it. My question to you is simply Monsanto's 15 pledge to rectify past harms, does it or does it not 16 include removing PCBs from the environment that it is 17 found responsible for placing there? 18 MR. PECK: Objection. The pledge speaks for 19 itself. 20 MR. GRAMMAS: What was the objection? 21 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 22 question. The pledge speaks for itself. If that's in 23 the pledge, show it to him. 122 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032666 1A Well, that's sort of the question I was 2 going to ask of you. Are you saying that the pledge 3 says rectify past harms? I don't -- I don't have it 4 in front of me, sir. 5Q Assume that it says that we will rectify 6 past harms. 7A I don't think it would be appropriate for - 8 it's not appropriate for me as an individual to speak 9 speculatively about what Monsanto has said in the 10 pledge. 11 MR. PECK: It's off the internet. It's also 12 Solutia's pledge, which he wouldn't know anything 13 about. He's not with Solutia. It's a separate 14 company. 15 Q Okay. The document I read off the internet, 16 and it's been made an exhibit to - 17 MR. GRAMMAS: What was the man's name I took 18 last week? 19 MR. PECK: Mr. Eley. 20 Q -- Mr. Eley's deposition. We made it an 21 exhibit, and it said on the top, Monsanto Pledge. And 22 one of the things in there said to rectify past harms. 23 Assume that to be true. All I'm asking you is does 123 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032667 1 rectify past harms mean taking the PCBs out of 2 Choccolocco Creek, Snow Creek and Lake Logan Martin, 3 yes or no? 4A Well, you've asked a question and it's not a 5 yes or no question. 6Q Okay. Well, then answer it how you can. 7A First of all -- or the first part of my 8 response would be, again, I'm not aware that those 9 exact words are used in the Monsanto pledge. And it's 10 inappropriate for me to set policy for Monsanto or 11 Solutia. I'm just not aware that those words are in 12 there. But to the extent that you did want to address 13 something, an issue, the specific one that you have 14 talked about, I think any remediation would have to 15 consider whether removal or leaving it there or 16 everything in between, that's a complicated subject. 17 That's not my area of expertise. And, you know, my 18 personal opinion is, no, I wouldn't automatically jump 19 to the conclusion that the only thing to do is to 20 remove them. I'm not -- my belief is that may not be 21 the right thing to do. 22 Q W.L. DeFer, that is you, correct? 23 A Correct. 124 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032668 Q Site twelve hundred. What does that describe? A That's an internal mail code designation for -- what's the date of the memo? Q It just says twelve hundred. A Is there a date at the bottom? I think it was the plant in Houston, actually. Q It looks like May 22nd 1989. A Yeah, that's a plant in Houston. Q What were you doing in 1989? A In 1989 I was working at the Chocolate Bayou plant. It was then a Monsanto plant. Q What were you employed doing? Were you a manager, were you a line technician, what -- A I was a manager. Q Were you a plant manager? A No, I was not. Q That was a position that was lower than the position you took here in Anniston as being the plant manager? A Superintendent level position. Q Right. Lower? A Lower. 125 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032669 1Q 2A Below thehierarchy? Yes. Less responsibility? 3Q So when you transferred to Monsanto's 4 Anniston plant, you had even more responsibility than 5 you did in 1989 in Houston? 6A Correct. 7Q And you would have been required to follow 8 the guidelines in a document entitled Environmental 9 Safety Health Guidelines, right? 10 A I would have beenexpected to understand 11 those guidelines and apply them wherever it made good 12 technical practical sense to our current operations. 13 And if for some reason I felt that it didn't, well, 14 then I would have been expected to discuss that with 15 other people. 16 Q So who is Mr. Corbett, H.J. Corbett? Do you 17 remember him? 18 A That's Hal Corbett. He's retired from the 19 company now. 20 Q In 1989 what position did he hold for 21 Monsanto? 22 A I believe he had a position that included 23 environmental. 126 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032670 1Q Was he above you on that environmental 2 position? 3A You mean in terms of corporate hierarchy? 4Q Yes. 5A 6Q Sure, yes, he was. So what he told you to do you had tofollow, 7 correct, at that time? 8A If he gave me specific environmental 9 guidance, yes, I would. 10 Q Well, let's assume that you were -- well, 11 let's don't assume anything. Your name appears right 12 here on a distribution list,does it not? 13 A Yes, it does. 14 Q And you received an environmental safety and 15 health guidelines memorandum on or around May 22nd 16 1989 from Mr. Corbett, right? 17 A Could I see it, please, a little closer? 18 Q Yes. 19 A Yes, that's my name onthe distribution 20 list. Now I need to look and see if this was really 21 for that attachment. 22 Q Well, let me just say this. That's how it 23 was produced to me. 127 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032671 1A 2Q Yeah. And Mr. Corbett is talking about the 3 attachment, isn't he? 4 MR. PECK: Feel free to look at the 5 document if he wants to ask you about it. 6 MR. GRAMMAS: He is looking at the document. 7 MR. PECK: And you keep asking questions 8 while he is looking at the document. He is entitled 9 to look at the damn document. 10 Q The question I'm asking you, Mr. DeFer, is 11 just about this page right here dated May 22nd 1989 12 from Mr. Corbett to distribution list, right? 13 A Uh-huh. (Indicating yes.) 14 Q And we know that you are on the distribution 15 list, right? 16 A Uh-huh. (Indicating yes.) 17 Q So May 22nd 1989 you got that letter from 18 Mr. Corbett? 19 A Uh-huh (Indicating yes.) 20 Q With the attached guidelines, environmental 21 guidelines ? 22 MR. PECK: Feel free to look at the document 23 which is obviously a fairly thick document. 128 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032672 1Q And I will represent to you that it is 2 produced in the exact same manner at this deposition 3 that it was produced to us by your employer, Monsanto. 4 MR. PECK: That's fine. He's got to look at 5 it and see if he got it if that's what you are asking 6 him to do. 7Q Right? Are you with me? 8A Yes, I'm with you. 9Q Now, in here Mr. Corbett tells you that 10 "While requirements may vary across different units of 11 the corporation and worldwide guidelines require some 12 compromise to permit application to all operating 13 units, compliance with the spirit of these guidelines 14 is not optional." 15 A Uh-huh (indicating yes). 16 Q Did I read that correctly? 17 A Yes, you did. 18 Q That means when you were employed as an 19 environmental manager in 1991, you had to follow the 20 dictates of that document right there, correct? 21 MR. PECK: Object to the form. 22 A Well, I can't agree exactly with what you 23 just said because then the next sentence goes on to 129 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032673 1 say, "Modifications which achieve the spirit of the 2 guideline and more appropriate to a local condition 3 are permitted." 4Q In other words, if you can do better than 5 these guidelines, by all means do so but this is the 6 absolute minimum you are going to be allowed to do as 7 far as environmental issues? Isn't that what that 8 second sentence is telling you as the manager at the 9 Anniston plant? 10 A I think in terms of the spirit of what it's 11 trying to achieve, yes. But in terms of specific 12 technical elements, the answer is, no, not 13 necessarily. 14 Q All right. Now, these guidelines were 15 replaced on November 11th 1992 by Mr. Pierle, weren't 16 they? 17 A According to this document they were sent 18 out again. 19 Q Okay. And Mr. Pierle says, right here, "In 20 support of this commitment, we have developed the 21 Monsanto Pledge Guidelines. These new guidelines 22 replace our Environmental, Safety and Health 23 Guidelines." Did I read that correctly? 130 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032674 1A Uh-huh (indicating yes). 2Q All right. So now weknow that on November 3 11th 1992 these guidelines replaced these other ones, 4 right? 5A Okay. 6Q Am I right? 7A No -- well, or - 8Q I mean, you are the one who - 9A They either replace that or some subsequent 10 revision of that. That's all I was saying. But, yes, 11 I agree with your intent. 12 Q All right. And, again,following these 13 guidelines was the same mandate as following the 14 earlier guidelines in that you had to follow them 15 unless you could do something better as far as 16 environmental issues? 17 A Something better or the situation just, it 18 just wouldn't fit. 19 Q So in other words, these guidelines only 20 applied if each individual manager felt like they 21 needed to follow them? 22 A (Witness shakes head negatively.) No, no, 23 it wasn't -- I'm not trying to say there was that much 131 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032675 1 latitude. 2Q Well, I mean, how much latitude was there? 3 Let me put it to you in the context of PCBs. Didn't 4 these guidelines require Monsanto to take a lead role 5 in determining whether they were a major contributor 6 of PCBs in the Anniston area? And I will point you to 7 that. 8A Okay. Since we've got them, let me turn to 9 that section of the guideline. 10 Q Before we even read these documents. While 11 you were employed there, didn't you have a general 12 understanding that these guidelines and that 13 Monsanto's policies were for you to take a lead and 14 active role in determining whether y'all were a major 15 contributor to the PCB problem that we're alleging in 16 this lawsuit? Did you believe that was part of your 17 job responsibility? 18 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 19 question. 20 A In the form you have asked the question, no, 21 that's not specifically required by the guidelines. 22 Q All right. I'm going to show you the 23 guidelines that we first spoke about, the ones that 132 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032676 1 were in effect when you took over the plant in 1991. 2 Isn't that when you took over the plant? 3 MR. PECK: Is that the 1989 guidelines we 4 are talking about? 5A December of '91. 6Q The reason I'm not making them exhibits 7 again is they have already been made exhibits and I 8 don't want to have a bunch of exhibits that we don't 9 need. Now, I have showed you worldwide guideline 10 number two, correct? 11 A Uh-huh (indicating yes). 12 Q And it's entitled waste management, right? 13 Waste management, isn't that what it's entitled? 14 A Uh-huh (indicating yes). 15 Q All right. Now, I'm going to go to the 16 second page, again, under heading, Waste Management - 17 excuse me. Under heading, Corrective and Remedial 18 Action, paragraph number four. 19 A Uh-huh (indicating yes). 20 Q It says -- tell me if I'm reading this 21 right. "At sites where we are a major contributor, we 22 will seek a leadership role when appropriate to 23 facilitate resolution." Did I read that correctly? 133 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032677 1A Yes. 2 MR. PECK: And you are entitled to read as 3 much of that document as you want to to answer his 4 question. 5Q Did I read that sentencecorrectly, sir? 6A Uh-huh (indicating yes). 7Q Then it says, "The operatingunits will 8 cooperate to establish responsibility for sites where 9 several units contributed wastes. A goal of the 10 corporation is to resolve as soon as reasonably 11 possible our liability and remedial plans for sites 12 where we have major responsibility." Did I read all 13 of that correctly? 14 A Yes, you did. 15 Q All right. So tell me if I'm wrong, sir, 16 but that document, does it not tell you as the plant 17 manager in Anniston that you need to take a leadership 18 role in determining whether or not your company was 19 responsible for putting the PCBs into Snow Creek, 20 Choccolocco Creek and Lake Logan Martin? Take a 21 leadership role in making that decision? 22 MR. PECK: Let the record reflect Mr. 23 Grammas is walking around the room wagging his finger 134 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032678 1 standing and leering over the witness. 2A As used in this guideline, the word 3 "responsibility" speaks to -- speaks to addressing the 4 issue as it's found. And the way I interpret your 5 question, though, you're using the word 6 "responsibility" potentially in a different way. 7Q All right. Well, then let's go with your 8 answer then. Are you telling me that my 9 interpretation of that document is incorrect? 10 A No. 11 Q And the interpretation is that I can read 12 that document right there that I just showed you under 13 Waste Management headings and I should not believe 14 that it required Monsanto, in particular you, sir, in 15 1991 as the plant manager to take a leadership role in 16 determining whether or not Monsanto was responsible 17 for PCB contamination in Snow Creek, Choccolocco Creek 18 and Lake Logan Martin? 19 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 20 question. He wasn't even the plant manager in 1991. 21 Q I thought you said you were the plant 22 manager in 1991? 23 A December of '91. 135 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032679 1 MR. GRAMMAS: Well, then your objection has 2 no merit and you shouldn't be interposing it, Adam, 3 okay? 4 MR. PECK: '91 implies January 1. 5 MR. GRAMMAS: No, it doesn't. 6 MR. PECK: Sure it does. You can answer the 7 question. The document speaks for itself. 8A Again, I've listened to your question 9 carefully. And at the risk of being impertinent, I 10 think you are implying accepting legal responsibility, 11 which I did not have the authority to do, never had, 12 and these guidelines don't talk about that. 13 Q I never mentioned the word "legal." I 14 haven't yet. We are going to get to that in a second. 15 But I haven't mentioned that yet, sir. All I'm asking 16 you is you are the plant manager from December 1991 17 through November 11th 1992 when these second 18 guidelines came into effect, right? 19 A Uh-huh (indicating yes). 20 Q So for that year period you were the plant 21 manager responsible for running Anniston under these 22 guidelines, right? 23 A Uh-huh (indicating yes). 136 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032680 1 MR. PECK: Is there a reason why you 2 continue to stand up? 3 MR. GRAMMAS: Yeah, because I'm talking 4 about this document and I'm coming around back and 5 forth. That's the reason. 6 MR. PECK: Okay. Just wanted to be clear. 7Q Right? You were the plant manager during 8 that period of time? Is that a hard question, Mr. 9 DeFer? 10 MR. PECK: Yes, it's a very long question 11 with a lot of detail in it. 12 Q You were the plant manager between 13 November - 14 A Oh, that question. 15 Q Oh, yeah, that one, the one I asked. 16 MR. PECK: The one about the five questions 17 in a row. You just keep rambling over there. Why 18 don't you stop and let him answer a question. 19 MR. GRAMMAS: Because he won't answer any 20 of them, Adam. 21 MR. PECK: Well, yeah, because you just keep 22 wandering around the room screaming and - 23 MR. GRAMMAS: I'm not wandering or 137 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032681 1 screaming. And you have done your job of trying to 2 mud up the record. Now, why don't you just let the 3 witness answer the question? 4 MR. PECK: Why don't you sit down? 5 MR. GRAMMAS: I told you why I'm not 6 sitting down. 7 MR. PECK: You've got another copy of the 8 document right there. 9Q Go ahead, Mr. DeFer. 10 A If I read this section in its entirety 11 and -- 12 Q First of all, do you understand what the 13 question is? The question is were you the plant 14 manager at the time that this document -- at the time 15 you were the plant manager, this document up until 16 November 11th 1993 controlled what you should do or 17 not do with respect to running your plant on 18 environmental issues, right? 19 A It wasn't the only guidance I had. And 20 assuming that there wasn't an intervening document, I 21 would say, yes, these were the guidelines that 22 applied. 23 Q All right. Now, does it not say that your 138 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032682 1 responsibility was to take a leadership role to 2 facilitate a resolution of environmental problems and 3 in particular cleanups when your company may be a 4 major contributor? Am I reading that correctly? 5 MR. PECK: You're not reading all of it, 6 that's for sure. 7Q The portions that I read, did I read 8 correctly? 9A You've - 10 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 11 question. The document speaks for itself. 12 A I can read the paragraph you're reading 13 from. So if you have a question about that. 14 Q The question is did I read it correctly? 15 See, the record can't read, sir. 16 A Okay. I didn't know when you were reading 17 it you wanted me to verify that you read it word for 18 word. Now, if you want to read it again, I can watch 19 you while you're reading it. 20 Q "At sites where we are a/the major 21 contributor, we will seek a leadership role when 22 appropriate to facilitate resolution." Did I read 23 that correctly? 139 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032683 1A Yes, you did. 2Q Now, you were the head honcho down there 3 during a period of time when this sentence that I just 4 read was one of the obligations imposed upon you by 5 Mr. Corbett, correct? 6A These guidelines were in effect for a part 7 of the time I was plant manager, correct. 8Q So that sentence I just read was an 9 obligation imposed upon you by Mr. Corbett, right? 10 A It was part of the corporate environmental 11 guidelines at the time, yes. 12 Q He also told you -- the operating unit was 13 considered the plant in Monsanto, right? 14 A Where is that at? 15 Q It says -- the next sentence starts with 16 the operating units. That's the Monsanto plant, isn't 17 it, as it related to you at this time period? 18 A No. Actually, that's sort of company speak. 19 That would be business units within the company. 20 That's my interpretation of what that means. 21 Q But you certainly fell within the operating 22 unit as the manager of this plant? 23 A What I think that means is it's saying that 140 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032684 1 let's not -- let's not have internal disagreements 2 over which business inside of Monsanto is going to pay 3 for something. Let's not let that slow us down. 4 That's how I interpret that sentence. 5Q Let me ask you this, sir: Do you see 6 anything inherently incorrect with me reading the 7 words as they appear on this document and applying 8 their everyday meaning to them? 9 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 10 question. 11 Q Are you aware of any facts, any scenarios, 12 any meanings, that would suggest to me that I cannot 13 read the words contained in this document and apply 14 their everyday ordinary meaning? 15 MR. PECK: Calls for speculation by this 16 witness. Object to the form of the question. 17 Q Are you? 18 A You are certainly free to do that. But 19 inside of Monsanto we didn't call plants operating 20 units. That's a fact. 21 Q That's not what I'm asking, sir, and I'm not 22 talking about operating units. I'm talking about 23 every single word contained in these guidelines. Are 141 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032685 1 you telling me that -- are you aware of some reason 2 that I cannot read these words and apply their normal 3 everyday meaning? 4 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 5 question. 6A You are entitled to do that. And I'm 7 assuming that I need to give truthful answers and I 8 may have to add other facts to make sure that my 9 answer is coming across. So you have every right to 10 do that. 11 Q You read this document at least -- or at 12 least you were charged with reading this document when 13 you were the plant manager in Anniston, right? 14 A These were the guidelines then in effect for 15 part of the time I was in Anniston, yes. 16 Q Tell me who you called up and talked to at 17 Monsanto above you as these guidelines that I've just 18 read relate to PCBs, if anyone, to clarify the issues 19 that you are now clarifying for us on the record. 20 A Well, if I can use the, you know, west end 21 landfill as an example, I think that, yes, I called 22 and discussed with people but there wasn't a lot of 23 debate about this. You know, there was a discovery 142 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032686 1 made. We became aware that we were significantly 2 involved, and we took appropriate steps to get the 3 process going quickly in terms of taking the property 4 back, in terms of meeting with ADEM. There is an 5 example where we have done this. 6Q You did exactly what the guidelines told 7 you, right? 8A I believe so. 9Q And that's because Alabama Power picked up 10 the phone, called you, made you aware of it, and you 11 responded to their demands and followed these 12 guidelines and took back the property? 13 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 14 question. 15 A Well, Alabama Power called us and talked to 16 us about something they observed on their property. 17 In that call they didn't talk about these guidelines. 18 Q I understand that. They called you and 19 said, hey, there is PCBs on our property. Take it 20 back. We don't want it. And following these 21 guidelines y'all took immediate corrective action 22 because you felt like you were a major contributor. 23 You took the property back, right? That's what you 143 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032687 1 just said. 2A No, I didn't say that Alabama Power called 3 us -- Alabama Power called us and said, hey, there is 4 PCBs, take it back. That's not what I said. 5Q All right. Now, do you believe that you 6 have major responsibility -- Monsanto has major 7 responsibility for putting the PCBs in Choccolocco 8 Creek and Snow Creek? 9 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 10 question. Lack of foundation for this witness. 11 A I've discussed this before, I think, but in 12 determining responsibility is a complicated thing. 13 There is many -- you know, PCBs were a commonly used 14 industrial product that could have come from many 15 sources and many individuals or corporations. So, no, 16 I don't think that the guideline says that. 17 Q You don't think the guideline says what? 18 A I think your question was do I think the 19 guidelines say that Monsanto has responsibility for 20 the PCBs in Snow Creek and Choccolocco Creek. 21 Q That's not what I asked you. I said, do you 22 believe that Monsanto has major responsibility or is a 23 major contributor for putting the PCBs there? 144 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032688 1 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 2 question. Lack of foundation for this witness. 3A I only came to the site in 1991. I wasn't 4 there during operations. I have not had an 5 opportunity to review any of the relevant records nor 6 was there a need to in the conduct of my job. There 7 is a lot of speculation that I would have to make 8 that's inappropriate. I think I have said that 9 Monsanto could be considered one of many possible 10 sources. I have said that. 11 Q I know you've said that. Now, the lawsuit 12 that my clients have brought against you was brought 13 in 19 - 14 MR. GRAMMAS: Adam, do you know what year 15 the lawsuit was brought? 16 MR. PECK: You guys want me to help you 17 after the way you have treated me all day? 18 MR. LOWE: You involuntarily help us all the 19 time. 20 MR. GRAMMAS: What year was the lawsuit 21 brought? I can take a break and go find out. Just 22 tell me when it was brought. 23 MR. PECK: Late '93. 145 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032689 1 MR. GRAMMAS: That's what I thought. 2Q All right. This lawsuit was filed in late 3 1993, correct? 4A If Adam says so. 5Q You were the plant manager then, right? 6 You were the plant manager at that time? 7A Uh-huh (indicating yes). 8Q Now, you are saying there was no need for 9 you as the plant manager at Monsanto's Anniston 10 facility to determine whether or not you were a major 11 contributor of PCB contamination in this eco system 12 even after you got sued accusing you of being a major 13 contributor of PCBs in this plant system, is that what 14 I'm hearing you testify? 15 A Are you asking that of me as an individual? 16 Q No, as you as the plant manager at Anniston 17 at that time. There was no need -- you received this 18 lawsuit, and there was no need for you to go out and 19 figure out whether you were the major contributor of 20 the PCBs as we alleged against you; is that what 21 you're saying? 22 A In responding to, you know, a lawsuit like 23 this that involves processes that are discontinued and 146 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032690 1 ceased, as plant manager that is not my direct area of 2 accountability. If asked, you know, certainly I would 3 participate in that process. And obviously once a 4 lawsuit is filed, you know, you are in a legal arena. 5Q You can't identify by name a single 6 potential source of PCB contamination in this eco 7 system sitting here today, can you, sir? 8A No, not off the top of my head, but it's my 9 understanding that that has been done by others 10 including ADEM in the past. 11 Q And at the time you were sued, Monsanto was 12 sued, in 1993, you were being accused in the lawsuit 13 of putting PCBs into this river system, right? Did 14 you even read the complaint, sir? 15 A Yes, I did. 16 Q Okay. 17 A Yes, I did. 18 Q Aren't we accusing you of putting PCBs in 19 the river system? 20 MR. PECK: If you understand the legalese in 21 their complaint, you can answer the question. If you 22 don't understand the legalese - 23 A As a layman, yes, I guess I would interpret 147 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032691 1 it that way, okay, as a layman. 2 MR. PECK: Yeah, y'all served him at his 3 home. 4A I've read it. I've just -- you know, 5 legalese aside, yes, I would interpret it that way. 6Q And according to this Monsanto guideline 7 your -- the Monsanto goal in part as a corporation was 8 to resolve as soon as reasonably possible liability 9 and remedial plans for sites where y'all have major 10 responsibility, right? 11 MR. PECK: That's what you are reading in 12 the middle of the paragraph. Just for the record, you 13 are reading right dead in the middle of the paragraph. 14 It begins a sentence or two before where you started. 15 A Well, you know, part of this speaks to 16 Superfundfund site, part of it -- 17 Q Okay. The reason you are saying that now is 18 because your lawyer just pointed to that. 19 A And part of it speaks to sites where we're a 20 major contributor. 21 Q Right. I understand that. You didn't 22 mention Superfund until your lawyer leaned over and 23 stuck his finger on a piece of paper and told you, 148 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032692 1 hey, read this right here, did you? 2 MR. PECK: That's not what happened. What 3 happened is I said he's asking you to read in the 4 middle of the paragraph whether the sentence or two 5 before and he looked back to see the sentence or two 6 before, which he is allowed to do. And you haven't 7 made this document an exhibit to the record so I had 8 to do that so the record was clear. 9 MR. GRAMMAS: No, no, you didn't have to do 10 that, Adam. 11 MR. PECK: Well, I did that. 12 MR. GRAMMAS: And he is telling you you 13 shouldn't have because he is saying this doesn't have 14 anything to do with the Superfund site. 15 MR. PECK: Well, that's fine for him to tell 16 me I shouldn't do that. My job is to worry about the 17 record. His job is to answer your questions honestly. 18 Q (By Mr. Grammas) All I'm asking you is the 19 question about sites where y'all are considered a 20 major contributor. You are supposed to take a 21 leadership role and you're supposed to find out as 22 soon as possible what your liability is and what your 23 remediation plans are, right? That's what this 149 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032693 1 document says in a nutshell, doesn't it? 2 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 3 question. The document speaks for itself. 4A In the context of a legal proceeding and all 5 the properties that you've talked about and the eco 6 system, I don't interpret that this -- my personal 7 interpretation was that this did not apply. 8Q Great. Great answer. Thank you, sir. 9A That doesn't mean -- let me clarify. That 10 doesn't mean that Monsanto is still not committed to 11 taking responsible actions and myself personally. 12 That's not what I said. 13 Q What have you done to take the responsible 14 actions? What have you done? 15 A I was not saying that I did not do anything. 16 All I'm trying to point out is your -- you seem to be 17 asking me does it fit the confines of this. And I'm 18 saying, I don't believe that this was intended to 19 apply to a lawsuit kind of a situation where I'm bound 20 to take advice. I'm bound to take advice by that 21 corporate charter and other environmental guidelines 22 from our corporate attorneys. I have to do that. 23 Q These policies apply unless we are being 150 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032694 1 sued where we may have to pay a bunch of money and 2 then they don't apply; is that what you are saying? 3 4 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 5 question. Argumentative. 6A No, that's not what I'm saying. 7Q But you don't believe these policies 8 entitled, Corrective and Remedial Action apply to the 9 Monsanto plant with respect to this lawsuit? That's 10 what I'm hearing you say. And if that's your answer, 11 that's great. Just say it. 12 A No. What I'm saying is I don't think these 13 guidelines in and of themselves say that Monsanto has 14 to -- that it implies any particular responsibility 15 for PCBs in the eco system. 16 Q Okay. 17 A And that's why I'm concerned with the way 18 you are asking the question. I don't think it implies 19 that. 20 Q I got you. Great. The next sentence says, 21 "We intend a lessened legalistic approach to site 22 cleanup negotiations. Where our responsibility is 23 fairly established, we will not delay cleanup 151 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032695 1 unnecessarily by legal, yet negatively perceived 2 litigious steps." Did I read that correctly? 3A Yes, you did. 4Q Now, that is the exact opposite of what 5 you've done in this lawsuit, isn't it, sir, you being 6 Monsanto? 7A No, it's not. 8Q You haven't engaged in a lengthy legalistic 9 approach to cleaning up the PCB contamination that 10 we're suing you over? 11 A Speaking of the time that I was at the plant 12 and that I can fairly speak to the answer is no, we 13 were not pursuing a legalistic approach. 14 Q Is Monsanto's Anniston plant PCB free? 15 A And how do you define PCB free? 16 Q In the ordinary regular ole everyday 17 meaning, PCB free. 18 A Well, actually, in the everyday meaning, the 19 answer to that might be yes. Usually is applied to 20 PCB articles, things like transformers. So that's 21 why I'm asking. 22 Q So you believe that you can accurately tell 23 a jury that the Monsanto plant and its surrounding 152 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032696 landfills are PCB free? A No. MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. A All I'm really saying is that the question you've asked is pretty broad, and it cannot be answered yes or no without explanation. Q Well, if I told someone that the Monsanto plant is PCB free, is that an accurate statement? A Okay. If you said that to a member of the public -- because you used the term "as usually used" which, again, in my experience that's usually used in a different context. A member of the public might interpret that to mean something different. Q Something different than what, Mr. DeFer? A Well, something -- they might interpret that to mean that there are no PCB by-products in any of the landfills on the site, which is, you know, not true. Q Was Mr. Alan Faust involved in any manner, shape, or form the west end landfill remediation? A Yes, he was. Q Tell me about his involvement. 153 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032697 1A I can tell you what I know up until mid 2 '94. Mr. Faust was involved not only in meetings with 3 ADEM and Alabama Power but also meetings with the 4 consultants who were helping us with the work and 5 coming up with the plan of study for the site. 6Q That was -- what was the name of the company 7 you mentioned? 8A Garrety & Miller. 9Q What was his role in these meetings, Mr. 10 Faust's role? 11 A Alan? Well, you know, I guess generally his 12 primary role would be to provide hydrogeological, you 13 know, input and expertise. And he also has experience 14 with dealing with companies like Garrety & Miller just 15 from a project management standpoint. 16 Q Mr. Faust will know more particularly how 17 the water flow off this area gets into Snow Creek? 18 A I suspect he might. 19 Q Will he also -- did you every rely -- did he 20 work under you while you were the manager at Monsanto? 21 A No, he did not. 22 Q What did he do while you were there? 23 A He never -- he wasn't based -- he worked out 154 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032698 1 of St. Louis while I was there. 2Q Are you his boss? Is he your boss? Are 3 y'all equals? How does that work? 4A He never worked underneath me or over me. 5Q And you neverworkedunderneath him? 6A No. 7Q All right. So did you rely on his 8 expertise, knowledge, or input in making decisions 9 about this west end landfill issue? 10 A Yes, we did. 11 Q Andthat would include hisknowledge of how 12 PCBs may travel through storm water and things like 13 that? 14 A Yes, I personally would have relied on that. 15 Q What did he tell you his belief was about 16 PCBs leaving this site as it was discovered by the 17 Alabama Power employee, if y'all hadn't done anything 18 to fix it? 19 A Well, I guess, again, a lot has transpired 20 since I left. Probably the best source of information 21 on that would be the plan of investigation that we 22 carried out. I don't remember all the details, but in 23 general it focused on two areas, one was looking at 155 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032699 1 ground. Water and I can't remember -- my suspicion is 2 those probably weren't limited just to PCBs, but I 3 don't know that for a fact. And my other recollection 4 is it probably would have been focused on any 5 surface -- PCBs on the surface, you know, the nature 6 and extent of those. 7Q Do you remember my question that I just 8 asked you? 9A You asked me what kind of guidance -- you 10 know, what kind of advice I got from Mr. Faust about 11 the west end landfill related to PCBs. 12 Q No, that's not what I asked you. I asked 13 you did Mr. Faust tell you anything about PCBs moving 14 off of the west end landfill because of storm water. 15 A Oh, I don't recall. 16 Q Did you ever ask him anything about that? 17 A I don't recall if I personally asked him 18 that, no. 19 Q Don't you think it's important to know 20 whether PCBs were leaving that landfill area and 21 getting onto neighboring property into Snow Creek? 22 A Monsanto was interested in understanding 23 that, and the plan of study was designed to find out 156 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032700 1 that information. 2Q And Mr. Faust would be the one at Monsanto 3 that knows about this information? 4 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 5 question. Calls for speculation. 6Q As far as you know. 7A I can't speak for Mr. Faust, but he would be 8 someone who might know that. 9 MR. PECK: Let's take a five minute break. 10 (A brief recess was taken) 11 Q Mr. DeFer, would you agree with me that 12 Monsanto is a contributor of the PCB problem that we 13 now have in Choccolocco Creek, Snow Creek, and parts 14 of Lake Logan Martin? 15 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 16 question. Lack of foundation for this witness. 17 A I would agree that to the extent that there 18 is PCBs there Monsanto is a possible source. And I 19 think Monsanto is being proactive in spending -- I 20 understand spending additional money since I have left 21 to, you know, investigate some of those things. 22 Q Will you agree with me, sir, that despite 23 the fact that you can't identify who these other 157 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032701 1 potential sources are that they must necessarily have 2 gotten PCBs that were manufactured by Monsanto? 3 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 4 question. 5A We talked about that earlier. I'm not -- I 6 just don't have the background to answer that 7 question. It is possible, I suppose, that some were 8 imported from somewhere. Absent seeing some facts I 9 would have to hold that open as a possibility. 10 Q What steps has Monsanto taken to remediate 11 the PCB contamination issues in Snow Creek, 12 Choccolocco Creek, and Lake Logan Martin, if any? 13 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 14 question. Lack of foundation from this witness. 15 A I think the question applies to either a 16 time period before I was at Anniston or a time period 17 after I was at Anniston. So I really -- I can't 18 really answer that question. I don't have the facts 19 to answer it. 20 Q And you can't answer during the period of 21 time that you were the plant manager in Anniston what 22 steps Monsanto took to remedy the PCB contamination in 23 Snow Creek, Choccolocco Creek and parts of Lake Logan 158 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032702 1 Martin, if any? 2 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 3 question. 4A To my knowledge when I was plant manager 5 there was no new or active concern that was being 6 looked at. There was prior work that was done by 7 Monsanto and ADEM. And my belief and understanding 8 was that that work reached a conclusion point but 9 there was no new information while I was there that 10 led us to do any additional work while I was there. 11 Q Okay. So the answer to the question is that 12 you didn't -- Monsanto didn't do anything during the 13 entire period of time you were the plant manager to 14 remedy or remediate PCB related issues in Snow Creek, 15 Choccolocco Creek and parts of Lake Logan Martin, 16 correct? 17 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 18 question. 19 A While I was in Anniston there was no new 20 information, no new investigations that were conducted 21 while I was there. They were conducted before and 22 after. And I'm not -- you know, you're asking me a 23 question about remedies and remediation and I'm just 159 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032703 1 -- number one, I'm not qualified to answer, and number 2 two, I'm not totally sure I know what you mean. 3Q Well, if there was a big dredging machine 4 out there sucking up a bunch of sediment out at 5 Choccolocco Creek, would that be something that you 6 would be aware of during the period of time that you 7 were the plant manager? 8A I might be, yes. 9Q Might be? You mean there is a chance you 10 might not be aware of something like that going on at 11 your plant? 12 A You said Choccolocco Creek, actually. 13 Q I know what I said. 14 A That's a long creek. 15 Q I realize that. 16 MR. PECK: You are saying if Monsanto is 17 doing it or if somebody else is doing it, but you 18 didn't say if Monsanto is doing it. 19 Q That Monsanto is doing, absolutely. 20 MR. PECK: That wasn't part of the question. 21 A Well, if Monsanto was doing it, I would be 22 aware of it, yes. 23 Q Right. And you would be aware of any 160 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032704 1 remediation efforts Monsanto was doing during the 2 period of time you were there, right? 3A Yes, I would be. 4Q And sitting here today, sir, tell me 5 every single remediation effort you're aware of 6 that Monsanto engaged in relating to PCBs on Snow 7 Creek, Choccolocco Creek or Lake Logan Martin during 8 that period of time you were there as the plant 9 manager. 10 A I'm not aware of any active remediation 11 efforts that went on in the areas that you mentioned 12 while I was plant manager. 13 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 13 Number 1 was marked for 14 identification.) 14 15 Q Could you tell me, sir, what Plaintiff's 16 Exhibit 1 is? 17 A This is a letter from Alabama Power 18 addressed to me dated July 16th 1993. 19 Q What's the content of the letter, sir? You 20 can summarize the content. 21 A The content of the letter is -- it's a 22 little historical in nature in that it summarizes 23 some things that had happened in that recent time 161 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032705 1 period, in the period of months, I'm assuming, not 2 much longer than that. And it's a formal letter 3 documenting that, you know, the material that they 4 found, documenting that it contained -- that their 5 information says it contains PCBs, and wanting to 6 talk, have discussions between Monsanto and APCO 7 about transfer of the property. It talks about 8 respective rights of each of the parties. Talks about 9 our customer relationship, et cetera, et cetera. 10 Talks about notifications that were made to the public 11 and community leaders. It talks about and references 12 discussions with ADEM. 13 Q Alabama Power wrote you that letter on that 14 date and said, in essence, Monsanto, this property 15 has PCBs. You put the PCBs there. This used to be 16 your property. We want you to take it back and 17 take responsibility for any environmental related 18 issues. In a nutshell, that's what this letter says, 19 isn't it? 20 A The document speaks for itself, but in a 21 nutshell, I would agree with that. 22 Q And what's the date of that letter? 23 A July 16th. 162 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032706 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 163 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032707 1 Number 2 was marked for 2 identification.) 2 3Q Now, I'm going to show you Plaintiff's 4 Exhibit 2. Now about, what, a week later to the day 5 you wrote this letter to Mr. Brown, didn't you? 6A Mr. Bowers. 7Q Bowers, I'm sorry. 8A The author of this first letter. 9Q I'm sorry. I read it upside down, and I 10 read it wrong. 11 A Yes, you did. 12 Q All right. And you were writing that letter 13 on behalf of Monsanto, weren't you? 14 A Correct. 15 Q And you were writing that letter as the 16 plant manager of Monsanto, were you not? 17 A Correct. 18 Q And in that letter you in a nutshell said, 19 we agree with what you are saying. We are going to 20 take responsibility for this issue. And we want to 21 transfer the property back from Alabama Power to 22 Monsanto. And we will take responsibility for the 23 issues. 164 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032708 1A I think the document speaks for itself, but 2 as I read it, I would say that what it says is we're 3 willing to work with them, and we want to do it 4 promptly and without delay. And we are willing to 5 discuss arrangements under which the land could be 6 transferred back to Monsanto subject to agreements 7 defining the rights, responsibilities, and liabilities 8 of Monsanto and APCO. 9Q And so what we have here, then, sir, is 10 less than a week after a formal letter by Alabama 11 Power was written to Monsanto, we have a prompt 12 statement by Monsanto saying, we're going to work with 13 you to resolve these issues. And we know ultimately 14 that you got the land back, right? 15 A Well, yes, after this letter was - 16 subsequent to the time this letter was written 17 Monsanto did get title to the land back. 18 Q During that period of negotiations between 19 Monsanto and Alabama Power, you asked -- you being 20 Monsanto, asked Alabama Power to indemnify Monsanto 21 for any environmental related lawsuits that may 22 result or that may have been filed as a result of 23 Alabama Power working out there on the property 165 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032709 1 during the period of time they owned it. Do you 2 recall that? 3A I recall that we had discussions about 4 indemnification, yes. 5Q But what you wanted is you wanted to make 6 sure that Alabama Power, you being Monsanto wanted to 7 make sure that Alabama Power was going to indemnify 8 Monsanto if anybody sued Monsanto as a result of 9 Alabama Power's conduct out there on the land that 10 y'all gave them, right? 11 A There were discussionsabout 12 indemnification -- and please understand that area of 13 law is -- I'm not a lawyer, so you can imagine that 14 I was not leading the strategy behind those 15 discussions. Please accept that. I think Monsanto's 16 legitimate concern was that during the time that 17 property was owned by Alabama Power that they may have 18 taken some actions that -- and as a result of those 19 actions they may have incurred some liability or 20 responsibility. 21 Q Alabama Power? 22 A Yes. 23 Q And the theory y'allhad was is that with 166 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032710 1 its bulldozers and earth moving equipment and whatever 2 other equipment it was going to -- Alabama Power was 3 going to put out there to build a substation, they may 4 have cut through some buried materials that Monsanto 5 put out and allowed more directly PCBs and other 6 materials to escape that property and get into the 7 neighboring landowners' property, right? 8 MR. PECK: You are talking in the past 9 tense? 10 A Past tense, right. 11 Q Right. 12 A That was a scenario that was discussed at 13 the time. I don't know if that's been borne out by 14 the site investigation. But, yes, that was discussed 15 at the time. 16 Q So Monsanto, in your opinion and to use your 17 words, took the legitimate position that Alabama Power 18 should be responsible for PCBs leaving that site if it 19 was Alabama Power's bulldozers that cut through the 20 landfill and allowed it to escape? 21 A I think our concern was to the extent that 22 they increased the scope of the investigation or other 23 expenses like that that there were grounds to discuss 167 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032711 1 that with Alabama Power, yes. 2Q And they wholesale rejected those proposals 3 by Monsanto, didn't they? 4A No, that wouldn't be a fair characterization 5 I don't believe. 6Q Well, tell me about the indemnity agreement 7 that Alabama Power entered into with Monsanto holding 8 y'all harmless for any environmental related issues 9 with respect to PCBs leaving that property. 10 A I know that we discussed indemnification. I 11 don't recall that we ever got -- that we ever got a 12 formal agreement. If you've got a document that shows 13 that, I would love to review it and refresh my memory. 14 I don't know. 15 Q I don't have a document that says that. 16 A I don't know that we ever got an agreement 17 that said that. 18 Q Right. Monsanto's proposals to have Alabama 19 Power indemnify them was rejected by Alabama Power, 20 right? 21 A There were discussions and proposals made, 22 that's true. Without having the documents in front of 23 me, I just can't speculate exactly how that played 168 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032712 1 out. 2Q I don't expect you to sit here four years, 3 five years after the fact and tell me exactly what 4 happened. But, I mean, you're a man with a chemical 5 engineering degree and a masters degree in business 6 relations who was intimately involved in negotiating 7 this exchange of property between Monsanto and Alabama 8 Power during that period of time, right? 9A I was involved in that, yes. 10 Q All right. Now, certainly with that much 11 education and intellect you could recall a general 12 agreement of indemnity that the two companies may have 13 entered into if one existed? 14 A I don't know if the question is about my 15 intellect and my memory or what I actually recall. 16 Q No. The question is, sir, based on your 17 intellect. 18 A Okay. 19 Q Based on all of your education, training, 20 background, you would recall, would you not, whether 21 such indemnity agreement existed or not? 22 A You're really questioning my memory and 23 you're linking it to my intellect -- 169 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032713 1Q Right. 2A -- which I'm not sure that there is any 3 scientific basis for linking intellect and memory. 4Q Okay. 5A But I will say, I don't recall the 6 specifics of that. I don't recall that we ever got 7 that agreement. So if you forced me to, you know, to 8 speculate, my speculation would be that such an 9 agreement was never reached. 10 Q That was contrary to what Monsanto wanted at 11 the time? 12 A Again, Monsanto's position was, gee, you had 13 possession of this property for over thirty years and 14 during that time you did things and as a consequence 15 of that there may be some liability. And, yes, that 16 was one of the positions that Monsanto took. 17 Q How long have you been employed with 18 Monsanto, approximately twenty something years, right 19 at eighteen years, nineteen years? 20 A Nineteen plus years. 21 Q We are creeping up on twenty years, right? 22 A Yep. 23 Q During that period of time, during that 170 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032714 1 entire period of time, was it required of you to learn 2 about the potential dangers of PCBs? 3A I think we talked about this early this 4 morning. But, you know, from a scientific basis and 5 understanding, the basic science of PCBs, no, that was 6 never a requirement. 7Q How about from a managerial standpoint just 8 to have a general understanding of what PCBs were, how 9 they got into the environment, what potential harm 10 they had? 11 A Through my work and being aware of some 12 Monsanto programs I had a general knowledge of TSCA 13 regulations as it applied to PCBs and the way it 14 defined PCB materials and articles, it seems to me 15 that's the term that's used. And from a -- also from 16 more of a general management prospective, yes, I was 17 exposed to background material that Monsanto had 18 prepared on PCBs and position papers, press releases, 19 yes, I was exposed to that kind of material. 20 Q Based on your exposure to that kind of 21 material and the general background, sir, do you have 22 a position one way or the other about whether Monsanto 23 is responsible, at least in part, for the fish 171 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032715 1 advisories that have been and currently are posted on 2 Choccolocco Creek and parts of Lake Logan Martin? 3 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 4 question. Lack of foundation from this witness. 5A I'm not an expert in that area at all. I 6 really know nothing about aquatic toxicity or 7 bioaccumulation I know absolutely zero about it. I 8 can't say I have ever read more than a paragraph about 9 it. So I really don't know. I don't have a basis to 10 make that statement at all. 11 Q You can't just use common sense and ask 12 yourself, well, we manufactured millions of pounds of 13 PCBs right here in Anniston. I know some of that PCB 14 got out of our plant into Snow Creek which flows into 15 Choccolocco Creek which now flows into Lake Logan 16 Martin, therefore, common sense tells me that PCBs 17 from our plant are in this eco system and are 18 bioaccumulating in fish, you can't answer that 19 question on common sense like that? 20 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 21 question. Lack of foundation from this witness. 22 A Because of my lack of scientific 23 background and experience, the short answer to your 172 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032716 1 question is, no, I don't feel qualified to answer that 2 question. 3Q And your common sense will not allow you to 4 draw the conclusion that based on all of those facts 5 Monsanto is at least in part responsible for the fish 6 advisories on PCB contamination in Choccolocco Creek 7 and Lake Logan Martin? 8 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 9 question. Lack of foundation. 10 A Since you narrowed your question to common 11 sense, I guess my answer would be -- and I think I 12 have said this before is that I'm willing to 13 acknowledge that in terms of sources of PCBs Monsanto 14 is a possible source of PCBs. But, you know, how PCBs 15 once they are in the environment and the 16 bioaccumulation and aquatic -- that is -- I know 17 nothing about that. I have absolutely no basis to 18 make a conclusion. 19 Q So the answer is you don't have the common 20 sense to allow you to conclude based on everything you 21 know that Monsanto is at least in part responsible for 22 fish advisories? 23 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 173 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032717 1 question. Lack of foundation. 2 MR. GRAMMAS: Are you saying this man 3 doesn't have any common sense? 4 MR. PECK: I'm saying it's not a question of 5 common sense. It's a question of scientific study. 6 We have spent one point five to two million dollars to 7 study that area of issue, Pete. It's not an issue 8 that can be answered since you have asked me to 9 explain my objection. 10 MR. GRAMMAS: Well, I bet your study will 11 determine that y'all aren't responsible for anything 12 on Choccolocco Creek. 13 MR. PECK: I seriously doubt that's what it 14 will determine. 15 MR. GRAMMAS: Do you think it will 16 determine that it is responsible? Maybe I should be 17 talking to you, then, Adam. 18 MR. PECK: The study will determine what the 19 study determines. That's why we're doing it. 20 THE WITNESS: Thirty years too late. 21 MR. PECK: The problem is it didn't occur 22 thirty years ago. 23 Q (By Mr. Grammas) I mean, all I'm saying is 174 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032718 1 -- you tell me why I can't look at it, it's so simple. 2 Let's do it that way. Why is it impossible for me to 3 just draw on my common sense and say, if Monsanto made 4 this chemical for that many years and Monsanto is 5 responsible in part for the chemical being in this 6 water system, then Monsanto is responsible in part for 7 the fish advisory. Where does my logic fail? 8 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 9 question. Lack of foundation. 10 A Well, that's your logic. My logic, would - 11 you know, if I constructed that same chain of events, 12 my problem is I would say that some of those things 13 are not questions of common sense. And that's where 14 we -- you know, you and I are not in agreement. 15 Q Well, let's go through them. Let's go 16 through them. Is it common sense or is it a fact that 17 Monsanto manufactured this stuff in Anniston from the 18 1930s to 1971? 19 MR. PECK: This stuff means PCBs? 20 MR. GRAMMAS: Right. 21 A I believe that's true. 22 Q Is it not a fact, sir, that Monsanto allowed 23 some of the PCBs to leave its system and get into Snow 175 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032719 1 Creek like you have already testified? 2A I think I said that it's my belief based 3 on -- I understand that there were processed waste 4 waters from that unit some of which were discharged 5 into a tributary of Snow Creek. 6Q All right. Is it not a fact, sir, that Snow 7 Creek flows into Choccolocco Creek? 8A Yes, it does eventually. 9Q Is it not a fact that Choccolocco Creek 10 flows into Lake Logan Martin? 11 A Yes, it is. 12 Q Is Monsanto not a probable source of PCBs 13 being in Snow Creek, Choccolocco Creek and Lake Logan 14 Martin? 15 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 16 question. Lack of foundation for this witness. 17 A There is an assumption inherent in that. 18 The assumption to me is, you know, the breadth of 19 geography involved. I'm willing to say based on my 20 personal, you know, understanding -- again, I wasn't 21 there during the time of discharge -- that, yes, 22 Monsanto is a possible source of PCBs. But I don't 23 have the expertise, sir, knowledge, or the background 176 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032720 1 to say and that applies to Lake Logan Martin. 2Q All right. Tell me the other possible 3 sources. 4A Anybody else that's used PCBs. There are a 5 lot of other people that used them. 6Q No, I mean by name here in this system. 7A I don't have a specific list of names to 8 provide you. But it's my understanding that that's 9 been looked at before by ADEM. 10 Q Now, you are aware that there is a fish 11 advisory on Choccolocco Creek and Lake Logan Martin, 12 right? 13 A There was a fish advisory issued for parts 14 of Choccolocco Creek while I was in Anniston, yes. 15 Q And the fish advisory said, don't eat the 16 fish because they contain high levels of PCBs, 17 correct? 18 A Essentially I think that's correct. 19 Q Now, based on all of those facts are you 20 telling me that you cannot rely on your own common 21 sense and tell this jury that in part, at least in 22 part, Monsanto is responsible for the fish advisories 23 being posted as they relate to elevated levels of PCB 177 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032721 1 contamination in the fish? 2 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 3 question. Asked and answered. Lack of foundation. 4A The answer is no because it's not a -- I 5 don't believe it's a question of common sense, it's a 6 question of science. 7 MR. GRAMMAS: That's it. Thank you. 9 (End of Deposition) 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 178 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032722 1 CERTIFICATE 2 3 STATE OF ALABAMA ) 4 JEFFERSON COUNTY ) 5 6 I hereby certify that the above and 7 foregoing deposition was taken down by me in 8 stenotype, and the questions and answers thereto were 9 reduced to computer print under my supervision, and 10 that the foregoing represents a true and correct 11 transcript of the deposition given by said witness 12 upon said hearing. 13 14 I further certify that I am neither of 15 counsel nor of kin to the parties to the action, nor 16 am I in anywise interested in the result of said 17 cause. 18 19 20 21 Jill B. Sanders, Commissioner 179 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032723 1 SIGNATURE OF WITNESS 2 3 I, , do hereby 4 certify that on this day of 5 1998, I have read the foregoing 6 transcript and to the best of my knowledge it 7 constitutes a true and accurate transcript of my 8 testimony taken by oral deposition on September 15, 9 1998 . 10 11 12 12 WITNESS 13 14 15 Subscribed and sworn to 16 before me this 17 day of , 18 1998 . 19 20 21 21 NOTARY PUBLIC 180 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032724 1 ERRATA SHEET 2 PAGE LINE CORRECTION REASON 181 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032725 [& - adverse] Transcript Word Index & 1993 (cont.) & 147:12 161:18 1:21 3:4,12 5:7 115:8 154:8 1994 15414 7:11 15:4 30:21 31:22 39:19 65:16 66:22 90:22 1 100:14 1 4:15 136:4 161:13,16 11th 130:15 131:3 136:17 138:16 15 180:8 15th 1:22 5:6 161 4:15 162 4:16 16th 161:18 162:23 1998 1:23 5:7 180:5,9,18 2 2 4:16 164:1,4 202 103:20 20's 10:23 20th 1:21 3:8,14 5:8 22nd 125:8 127:15 128:11,17 3 178 30 4:4 5:4 179 300 4:5 3:15 180 3000 4:6 1:21 5:8 19 3100 145:13 3:7 1930 35203 11:2 3:9,16 1930s 175:18 1960 100:10,11,13 101:3,6 1971 4 420 1:21 3:8 5:8 5 175:18 505 1976 3:14 11:3 1979 7:21 8:2 119:1 1982 7:6 1985 8:14 6 ft 4:3 60s 77:13,14 100:7 7 1989 70s 125:8,10,11 126:5,20 10:8 77:13,15,15 100:7 127:16 128:11,17 133:3 8 1991 80s 7:11 15:3 30:21 31:21 118:23 119:1,3 65:16 66:22 129:19 133:1 135:15,20,22 136:16 145:3 9 1992 9:20 130:15 131:3 136:17 1993 76:4 101:23 138:16 146:3 1:23 5:10 91 39:19 51:10 86:5 133:5 91 (cont.) act 135:23 136:4 32:13 93 acted 100:16 114:7 145:23 32:18 65:23 67:8 93- 250 acting 1:5 5:3 94 action 51:1086:5 100:16 114:7 1:5,1031:10 114:14,17 154:2 133:18 143:21 151:8 94- 50 179:15 1:6,11_______________________ actions a 94:3 150:11,14 166:18,19 a.m. 1:23 5:10 active 132:14 159:5 161:10 able activities 92:10,18,20 94:7,9 absent 158:8 absolute 130:6 99:11 adam 3:13 18:7 25:1827:15 36:14 96:11 98:8 136:2 137:20 145:14 146:4 absolutely 49:20 105:20 160:19 172:7 173:17 absurd 26:5 149:10 174:17 add 63:15 142:8 additional 37:9 157:20 159:10 accept address 87:6 166:15 accepted 63:22 65:8 accepting 136:10 87:3 91:10 121:17 124:12 addressed 89:10 161:18 addressing 122:7 135:3 access adem 63:16 100:22 accountabilities 35:4 71:15,17 72:5 75:23 78:1,6,6,14 85:16 106:19 31:5 accountability 9:14 14:20,21 15:9 32:6 114:8 143:4 147:10 154:3 159:7 162:12 177:9 adhere 108:16 111:17 112:3,5,7,19 117:21,22 118:4 147:2 82:9 adhered accurate 104:6 153:9 180:7 accurately 105:3 adjacent 109:9 152:22 accused administration 8:12 147:12 admit accusing 146:12 147:18 achieve 130:1,11 acknowledge 28:9 44:14 59:15 101:9 admitted 24:3 adopt 119:9,14 24:9 173:13 adopted acquired 10:22 99:7,9 acquisition 101:2 119:13,17 adverse 24:19 26:19 27:5 29:14,21 30:8,14 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032726 [advice - assign] advice alabama (cont.) answered aquatic 49:22 110:22 117:1 150:20 144:2,3 154:3 155:17 17:6,11 18:5,18 19:1720:2 53:5 172:6 173:16 150:20 156:10 161:17 162:13 164:21 20:8 22:1 42:4 43:23 58:9 area advisories 165:10,19,20,23 166:6,7,9 67:19 70:9,11,18 96:3,6 9:17 17:21 53:6,10,10,15 48:5 51:11 54:13 172:1 166:17,21 167:2,17,19 153:7 174:8 178:3 65:13 84:6,6,7 92:23 93:11 173:6,22 177:22 168:1,7,18,19 169:7 179:3 answering 102:9,12 105:2 124:17 advisory alan 91:22 132:6 147:1 154:17 156:20 48:11,14,19 50:15,23 52:17 153:20 154:11 answers 166:12 172:5 174:7 53:2 175:7 177:11,13,15 alleged 26:11,13,13 50:6 96:8,9 areas affairs 146:20 113:8 142:7 179:8 9:13 13:1040:10 121:23 108:13 alleging anybody 122:3 155:23 161:11 affidavit 132:15 48:15 53:4,19 55:2 73:4 arena 36:2,7 allow 77:1 87:15,18 88:15,16 147:4 affidavits 40:17 173:3,20 90:7,10 91:5 108:6 110:14 argumentative 35:17,19,22 allowed 113:12 166:8 177:4 18:18 26:4 28:8 37:7 50:17 affirm 33:20 39:10 40:3,18 82:7,8 anymore 151:5 73:12 130:6 149:6 167:5,20 13:22 111:7 aroclor afternoon 175:22 anywise 80:21 36:15 alluded 179:16 arrangements agencies 40:15 apco 165:5 35:4 amount 162:6 165:8 arrival ago 43:16 92:2,5,6 apparent 19:6 38:19 77:17 82:13 84:18 analysis 67:7 arrived 97:4 174:22 73:11 76:9 77:20 apparently 31:13 62:6 81:21 agree anniston 27:1751:19 article 31:3 33:2,4 60:1 87:21 88:2 7:8,13 12:19 13:6 14:7 15:4 appear 9:21 129:22 131:11 157:11,17 16:23 17:2,8 18:3,11,16 21:5 83:15 141:7 articles 157:22 162:21 164:19 19:15,21 20:5,1221:7,13 appears 152:20 171:14 agreed 21:22 22:14 30:21 31:21 127:11 aside 1:152:1,8 20:4 34:13 38:2,6 39:18,19 40:4 application 148:5 agreement 42:13 43:3 48:10 52:2,18 129:12 asked 86:19 168:6,12,16 169:12 65:16,19 66:5 67:14 68:8 applied 17:11 18:5,18 19:11,17 169:21 170:7,9 175:14 69:3,7 70:4 71:3,23 73:14 8:23 106:6 131:20 138:22 20:8 22:1 27:21 38:22 40:7 agreements 74:20 75:11 84:14 86:4 152:19 171:13 42:4 43:12 49:4,11,12 53:8 165:6 97:12 109:5,15 115:10,20 applies 53:9 54:4,13 57:12 58:11 ahead 125:19 126:4 130:9 132:6 158:15 177:1 59:3,7 64:19 67:19 77:16 6:10 16:9 17:11 18:9 20:10 134:17 136:21 142:13,15 apply 89:14,17 91:11 96:3,5 37:7,20 77:18 90:19 138:9 146:9,16 152:14 158:16,17 126:11 141:13 142:2 150:7 100:9 105:19,20 121:3 aim 158:21 159:19 172:13 150:19,23 151:2,8 124:4 132:20 137:15 106:18 175:17 177:14 applying 144:21 147:2 153:6 156:8,9 al answer 141:7 156:12,12,17 165:19,20 1:9,12 17:16 18:6 19:4,4,13 20:9 appreciate 174:8 178:3 alabama 21:9 23:1 25:5,17 32:4 34:6 61:10 asking 1:1,22 3:9,16 5:2,3,4,9 17:8 37:9,12 39:1 40:9 43:12,22 apprised 14:1520:1 21:1 33:17,19 18:3,11,16 19:15,21 20:5 49:14 51:16 55:11 57:15 67:6 38:15,18 44:13 51:22 74:1 20:1321:1422:1434:19 59:17 62:1 64:9 66:4 67:13 approach 74:10,11,12 90:20 91:21 40:4 48:7,16,18 49:1,4 70:12,17,23 71:5,7,9 86:11 116:16,17 151:21 152:9,13 96:1598:1 119:16 121:16 50:11,14,20 66:5 67:9 76:4 93:7,20 95:2 96:11,19 appropriate 123:23 128:7,10 129:5 77:2,5,9,23 78:6,9,19 83:9 111:9,19,21 118:16 124:6 72:5 123:7,8 130:2 133:22 136:15 141:21 146:15 83:12 85:6 86:15 87:6,9,16 130:12 134:3 135:8 136:6 139:22 143:2 149:3,18 150:17 151:18 87:18,20 88:12,16 89:7,14 137:18,19 138:3 142:9 approval 152:21 159:22 98:12,15,20,23 99:13,19 147:21 149:17 150:8 78:14 114:8 116:21 118:20 aspartame 100:18,23 102:1 106:1,15 151:10 152:12,19 158:6,18 approved 7:3 106:18 107:7,20,21 108:5 158:19,20 159:11 160:1 116:23 assign 109:2 112:2 113:5 114:11 172:18,23 173:1,11,19 approximately 2:12 114:19 118:1 143:9,15 178:4 1:23 5:9 170:18 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032727 [associated - buy] associated b believe boundaries 42:22 44:20 99:12 bachelors 19:23 24:7,13 29:13 30:14 43:14 assume 8:6 32:15 33:5,9,12,15 34:15 boundary 90:11 123:5,23 127:10,11 back 40:14 50:12,18 55:7,11 44:11,21 assuming 10:23 29:18 38:17 45:6 56:19 57:1,13 58:4 61:10 bowers 21:10 116:13 138:20 142:7 52:9 59:20 75:1 77:20 65:15 66:5,20 67:6 71:20 164:6,7 162:1 78:11 81:1586:15,16,19 73:2,4,6 74:7 76:8 78:3 boy assumption 87:1,6,13 88:14,21 89:2,15 89:20 91:1,18 99:5 102:4 55:12 81:21 101:8 176:17,18 103:22 113:5 137:4 143:4 102:21 106:8,9 116:1 119:1 brand assumptions 143:12,20,23 144:4 149:5 121:11 126:22 132:16 7:3 58:22 162:16 164:21 165:6,14,17 135:13 143:8 144:5,22 bread attach background 150:18 151:7 152:22 168:5 10:1 64:23 9:5 12:18,22 13:21,23 14:1 175:21 178:5 breadth attached 14:5 59:17 158:6 169:20 best 176:18 105:11 128:20 171:17,21 172:23 176:23 99:3 122:13 155:20 180:6 break attachment backgrounder bet 53:16 98:7,8,11 145:21 127:21 128:3 9:22 12:13 174:10 157:9 attempt backgrounders better breakdown 92:8 14:8 87:13 130:4 131:15,17 70:17 attention base beyond brief 16:14 69:8 29:2 101:16 22:3 119:20 53:18 66:17 98:10 157:10 attorney based big bring 34:17,18,22 35:6 49:12,17 40:2 42:15,17 44:22 45:3 57:18 88:10 160:3 25:2 86:23 49:21 118:10 46:14,1748:1452:1061:19 bind broad attorneys 62:7 65:2,11 72:9 90:23 65:3 66:12 153:6 150:22 101:2 154:23 169:16,19 bioaccumulating broader augusta 171:20 173:4,20 176:2,19 172:18 37:12 63:6 6:20,23 7:5 20:19 67:12 177:19 bioaccumulation broadly 78:13 basic 172:7 173:16 98:22 author 171:5 biphenyl brought 164:8 basis 9:6 69:7 145:12,12,15,21,22 authorities 30:12,13 34:6 56:4 62:14 birmingham brown 72:5 62:14 170:3 171:4 172:9 1:22 3:9,16 5:2,9 12:21 13:5 47:13,15 65:5,7 authority 173:17 bit 72:12 164:5 112:20 116:21 118:12,20 bayou 63:5 81:13 113:18 120:10 bs 136:11 125:11 black 8:8 automatically beat 83:18 98:16 99:14 114:19 buck 124:18 25:1,22 bob 116:8 aware began 110:6 113:17,18 115:15,16 build 16:20 17:6,12 28:16 29:1 69:1,2 99:20 115:23 116:4 167:3 29:1930:1 31:8 32:11,17 beginning borne bulldozer 32:20 34:17,21 35:3 38:5 88:20,22 167:13 106:12 38:11,19 39:4,6,23 40:9 begins boss bulldozers 41:12,1642:15,17,1944:7 148:14 109:16,18,19 115:11,21,22 167:1,19 44:8,15,19 50:2 52:19,20 behalf 155:2,2 bunch 60:14 65:17,21 66:6,23 25:17 36:7 164:13 bother 87:10 133:8 151:1 160:4 67:10,15,20 69:14,17 70:2 beings 92:19 buried 70:5,21 71:10,17,22 72:3 24:11 28:19 bothered 167:4 73:15 74:6,19 75:18 77:9 belief 92:14 burr 92:4,4 103:3,3,6,14 113:21 13:7 23:3,20 24:6 26:22 bottom 1:21 3:4 5:7 114:4,8 115:1 124:8,11 29:8 30:18 34:3 53:3 58:3 79:18 125:6 business 141:11 142:1 143:1,10 61:6 62:8,10 65:3,7,21 72:4 bottoms 8:11 10:21 64:14 140:19 160:6,10,22,23 161:5,10 75:22 82:6 95:20 97:13 79:9,10,13 80:2,18,20 81:2 141:2 169:5 171:11 177:10 101:14,16 105:3 124:20 81:6,8 buy 155:15 159:7 176:2 bound 86:14,16 150:19,20 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032728 [buying - complicated] buying ceased 75:1,1____________________ 121:1 147:1 c certainly call 32:13 58:2 74:8 75:18 42:8 48:20 49:7 76:21 84:10 106:17 108:12 107:5,9 115:13 141:19 110:14 140:21 141:18 143:17 147:2 169:10 called 20:23 41:17 44:2 54:1 80:1 certificate 4:4,5 142:16,21 143:10,15,18 certify 144:2,3 5:3 179:6,14 180:4 calling 55:20 84:10 calls cetera 122:1 162:9,9 chain 54:5 141:15 157:5 175:11 cap challenge 105:23 120:4 capacitors chance 160:9 11:8 capacity change 14:15 43:2 44:1 45:11 104:4 108:21 capped changed 82:9 81:12 capping changing 100:3 106:21 66:16 capture characterization 15:23 168:4 captured 103:6 characterize 19:3,10 44:22 54:23 56:9 carcinogen 58:21 83:16 84:15 88:19 22:15,21 23:3,7,15 89:23 94:1,20 95:3 112:17 care 115:1 120:2 50:10 92:20 carefully characterized 80:22,23 136:9 characterizing carried 30:10 104:22 155:22 charge carries 105:8 48:20 52:7 67:17 88:4 110:23 111:3 carrying charged 104:21 31:22 52:13 53:14 66:21 case 111:22 117:11 142:12 25:10 36:1 46:4 73:7 75:6,7 charlotte 80:1489:11 112:18 1:4 cases charter 119:21 150:21 casual cheever 29:4 cause 113:17 chemical 5:11 24:7,8,19 30:7 89:12 8:6,8,17 9:4 10:14,20,22 179:17 11:14 13:2,3,19 14:1 60:4 caused 169:4 175:4,5 50:13 68:12 causes chemicals 30:22 31:23 32:9 41:7 29:13 30:14 67:21 choccolocco 37:4,17 39:11 40:5,11 choccolocco (cont.) coaching 47:19 48:3,6,11 50:13 51:8 27:22 28:1 52:16 54:12 55:5,22 57:11 code 59:2,8 64:22 75:15 124:2 125:3 134:20 135:17 144:7,20 college 157:13 158:12,23 159:15 7:22 160:5,12 161:7 172:2,15 coming 173:6 174:12 176:7,9,13 54:14 137:4 142:9 154:5 177:11,14 commencing chocolate 1:23 5:9 125:11 comment chose 54:4,7 99:4 106:23 90:14 commercial chronic 11:5 64:14 23:22 commissioner circuit 1:19 5:3 179:21 1:1 commitment cited 130:20 68:14 69:9 committed city 150:10 1:2 common civil 88:9 172:11,16,19 173:3,10 1:5,10 5:5 173:19 174:3,5 175:3,13,16 clair 177:20 178:5 1:1 commonly clarify 144:13 106:4 117:6 142:18 150:9 communication clarifying 70:17 142:19 communications classified 50:19 23:6 community clay 14:23 27:5 28:20 30:19 106:9 162:11 clayton companies 3:5 9:2 60:5,8 88:10 154:14 clean 169:12 93:1 company cleaning 1:7 6:18 10:20,22 63:23 122:3 152:9 87:21 88:1 110:14 123:14 cleanup 126:19 134:18 139:3 151:22,23 140:18,19 154:6 cleanups competed 139:3 64:11 clear complaint 19:13 137:6 149:8 147:14,21 client complete 49:12,17,21 32:7 78:13 clients completely 145:12 75:13 97:18 clippings compliance 40:15 2:4 31:6 67:23 129:13 closed complicated 17:1 32:12 108:16 121:23 5:23 40:7 58:8,10,13,17,18 closer 58:22 59:5,13 60:3 98:2 127:17 124:16 144:12 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032729 [composition - currently] composition constitute contributor country 101:18 36:2 132:5,15 133:21 139:4,21 64:5 compromise constitutes 143:22 144:23 146:11,13 county 129:12 180:7 146:19 148:20 149:20 1:1 179:4 computer constructed 157:12 couple 179:9 175:11 control 108:12 concede construction 63:16 76:22 87:1 course 60:23 61:3,12 99:15,18 controlled 114:14 concentrated consultants 138:16 court 80:17 115:6 154:4 conversations 1:1 2:55:1,16 119:11 concern consultative 55:7 77:8 cove 67:21 95:2 159:5 166:16 110:19 conversely 1:9 167:21 consulted 117:2 cover concerned 71:14 conveyance 85:19 106:5,7,9 41:13 115:21 117:3 151:17 contact 42:7 covered concert 41:23 cooling 66:11 85:19 86:3 75:23 contacted 41:22 covers conclude 76:4 78:1 cooperate 66:14 173:20 contacting 134:8 create conclusion 76:10 cooperated 122:7 124:19 159:8 173:4,18 contain 35:3 creating conclusions 45:1 80:18 177:16 cooperation 28:3 98:4 53:11 contained 112:4 creek condition 43:17 46:1,6,12,19 77:21 copy 33:2,6,10,16,18,21 34:9,14 130:2 80:1681:1 90:1291:14 138:7 34:16,20 35:5 37:3,4,17,17 conditions 93:11 141:13,23 162:4 corbett 39:11,1240:4,5,11 42:14 65:12 containing 126:16,16,18 127:16 128:2 43:4 44:6,12,16,21 45:14 conduct 45:19,23 85:20 128:12,18 129:9 140:5,9 45:20 46:6,12,17 47:19,19 21:19 68:6 120:18 145:6 contains corporate 48:2,3,6,11,12 50:13 51:8 166:9 162:5 127:3 140:10 150:21,22 52:16 54:12 55:6,22 57:11 conducted contaminate corporation 59:2,8 60:10,16,18,21 61:2 34:8 159:20,21 39:11 40:4 1:7,12 129:11 134:10 148:7 61:8,13,21 62:2,9,11,21 confines contaminated corporations 63:9,14,18 64:20,22 69:12 150:17 37:16 70:2 71:22 122:3 144:15 69:15,18 70:3,6 71:4,11,13 confirmed contaminating correct 71:22 72:4 73:1,11 74:10 85:11 98:14 10:11 18:13 24:4 38:2,3 75:15,15,22 102:18,20,22 confused contamination 41:1 45:8 63:19 64:5 69:4,8 103:2,8,16,21,22,23 104:2 115:12 32:20 34:9,14 37:3 48:12 120:21 124:22,23 126:6 104:7,10,20,22 105:13 consensus 49:3 50:3,4,13 54:12 60:10 127:7 129:20 133:10 140:5 124:2,2 134:19,20 135:17 23:2,21 24:14 26:16,19,23 60:15 63:9 65:18,18,20 140:7 146:3 159:16 164:14 135:17 144:8,8,20,20 27:3,11,1428:1729:1,21 66:7 68:20 69:17 71:4 164:17 177:17,18 179:10 154:17 156:21 157:13,13 30:18 114:8 73:15,20,22 75:14 113:6,23 correction 158:11,12,23,23 159:14,15 consequence 114:18 135:17 146:11 4:6 99:11 181:2 160:5,12,14 161:7,7 172:2 170:14 147:6 152:9 158:11,22 corrections 172:14,15 173:6 174:12 consequences 173:6 178:1 6:7 176:1,5,7,7,9,13,13 177:11 122:10,12 content corrective 177:14 consider 161:19,20,21 133:17 143:21 151:8 creeks 98:3 124:15 context correctly 102:23 considered 132:3 150:4 153:13 26:21 92:12 129:16 130:23 creeping 81:13 140:13 145:9 149:19 continue 133:23 134:5,13 139:4,8,14 170:21 consistent 26:10 137:2 139:23 152:2 crossed 101:20 109:7 contrary costs 93:17 consolidated 30:2,4,6 170:10 31:6 current 1:5 contributed counsel 66:8 75:19 126:12 constantly 60:9 134:9 1:162:10,11 5:6 179:15 currently 66:16 6:1720:1882:7 115:9 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032730 [currently - discussed] currently (cont.) defer deposition (cont.) difference 172:1 1:8,185:10,136:16 13:12 129:2 178:9 179:7,11 180:8 57:18 customer 18:14 20:18 26:17 28:5 depositions different 162:9 31:17 53:19 63:6 70:9 71:7 2:6 35:16,18 96:22 40:9 60:6,8 66:13,16 cut 91:3 98:11 124:22 128:10 depth 120:13 129:10 135:6 19:1 167:4,19 137:9 138:9 153:15 157:11 29:3,7 153:13,14,15 cv define describe difficult 1:5,6,11__________________ 152:15 125:2 27:23 28:4,7,8 91:21 d defined designate dig damn 98:22 113:13,15 171:14 25:9 97:14,17 128:9 defining designated digging dangers 171:2 data 58:17 165:7 definitely 41:1463:3 116:16 25:14 designating 25:11 97:8 98:4 99:20 100:3 dinner 72:19 47:10 73:11 definition designation direct date 122:2 125:3 19:11 147:1 5:4 100:9 101:2 125:4,6 degree designed direction 162:14,22 dated 8:5,8,11,18 9:4,8 169:5,5 156:23 degrees desires 52:4 112:21 directly 128:11 161:18 8:10 14:13 22:8,13 43:4 54:11 102:17 dave delaware desk 102:20 116:6 167:5 72:15,19 1:7 93:17 dirt day delay despite 93:10,10 97:9 106:12 1:22 5:6 26:6,10 86:2 96:22 151:23 165:4 157:22 117:15 145:17 164:4 180:4,17 days delegate 101:22 detail disagree 12:15,16 102:13 107:15,17 29:15 50:9 45:7 demand 137:11 disagreeing dead 148:13 16:16 demanded detailed 30:4 108:4 27:11 disagreements deal 16:13 118:1 details 141:1 88:11 demands 57:3 66:18 155:22 discharge dealing 143:11 determination 41:1842:14 176:21 50:3 111:23 113:6 154:14 dealt denial 50:4 34:22 59:11 92:19 94:8,10 discharged determine 46:6,11,1661:21 62:2,9,11 68:19 denied 37:16 92:2,10,14 93:3 176:4 debate 50:5 95:10,15 96:14 97:2 146:10 discharges 27:4,5 28:20 122:13 142:23 denner 174:11,14,16,18 41:19 decade 77:14 72:15 deny determined 34:18,19 92:5 disclose 90:15 decernber 49:1 50:22 56:4 59:15 determines discontinued 7:11 133:5 135:23 136:16 73:13 174:19 146:23 decide denying determining discover 89:1 23:5 57:21 52:8 94:11 95:23 132:5,14 15:18 decided department 134:18 135:16 144:12 discovered 105:22 114:16 117:17 48:8,16,18 49:1,4 50:11,14 develop 76:6 78:18,20 89:4 103:8 decision 50:20 111:1 118:5 60:12 95:2 105:23 106:17 114:18 52:10 106:3 112:14 114:22 depends developed 118:14 155:16 117:12,20 134:21 decisions 42:10,11 deponent's 68:1,17 69:15 70:6 77:8 88:7 89:3 130:20 discovering 94:5,16 115:2 116:10 155:8 4:5 dictates discovery deed deposited 129:20 1:6 13:4 78:7 79:4 142:23 100:16 43:4 dielectric discuss defendant 3:11 deposition 11:19,21 12:1,17 1:7,172:2,3,136:3,7 21:11 dielectrics 25:4 107:15,17 126:14 165:5 167:23 defendants 28:10 35:10 36:13,22 37:8 11:8 discussed 1:8 37:10 95:9 116:11 123:20 23:6,11 75:21 93:9 113:23 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032731 [discussed - evasive] discussed (cont.) doubt effort entire 142:22 144:11 167:12,14 174:13 161:5 28:9 48:20 64:1 69:18 70:3 168:10 drain efforts 71:2 87:17 92:13,23 159:13 discussion 103:19 116:5 161:1,11 171:1 78:8 93:13,21 drained eighteen entirety discussions 102:14,15 170:19 138:10 78:5,9 93:17,22 106:19 draw either entitled 107:19 109:14 119:22 53:11 173:4 175:3 9:20 43:10 56:13 59:15 50:4 126:8 128:8 133:12,13 162:6,12 166:3,11,15 dredging 74:7 78:14 107:4 131:9 134:2 142:6 151:8 168:21 160:3 158:15 environment disposal drive electric 63:21 67:1 68:5 116:22 15:18 81:7,17 82:5,7 14:11 11:6 122:16 171:9 173:15 110:21 driving electrical environmental dispose 97:16 11:17 31:7 65:17,1866:7,15,15 16:2 44:3 79:6 83:1,5 dug element 66:23 67:15 68:4,9 87:11 disposed 92:23 120:23 108:13 110:4 118:9 121:20 82:9 83:8 duly elements 126:8,23 127:1,8,14 128:20 disposing 5:14 119:18,23 130:12 129:19 130:7,22 131:16 82:11 dump elevated 138:18 139:2 140:10 distill 79:3 177:23 150:21 162:17 165:21 80:9 dumped elevations 168:8 distilled 44:15 84:5 environmentally 79:13,15,18 dumping eley 120:18 distribution 44:23 123:19 epa 11:1879:1 127:12,19 duty eley's 48:9 128:12,14 41:6 123:20 equals division dyer embodied 155:3 1:2 1:4 120:16 equipment document e employed 101:1 167:1,2 39:17 121:6,6 123:15 126:8 earlier 6:17 7:18,20 8:21 9:10 10:9 erosion 128:5,6,8,9,22,23 129:20 130:17 134:3,16 135:9,12 39:7 98:15,18 100:9 131:14 1 ftftft 13:14 38:6 39:5 75:16 76:18 115:9 116:1 125:13 129:18 escape 136:7 137:4 138:8,14,15,20 139:11 141:7,13 142:11,12 149:7 150:1,3 162:20 165:1 early 77 15 earth 1007 16 171 3 132:11 170:17 employee 78:1998:1599:14 111:6 32:1 167:6,20 escaping 31:1 168:12,15 167:1 119:2 155:17 esq documentation employees 3:5,6,13 39:9 71:12 documenting 1041 71:19 82:17 83:9 100:23 essence 114:19 119:14 162:14 162:3,4 17715 employer documents eco 129:3 11:13 13:18,20 35:8 36:19 36:20,21,23 37:14,22 39:14 39:15 40:12 42:16,16,18 43:11 46:2,3 62:7 78:3 114:9 132:10 168:22 55:15 56:14 59:16 60:1 14611 1476 1505 15115 172:17 educate 14:11 37:1 75:12 enacted 118:22 119:1,2 ended 43:4 engaged doing education 44:1 74:16 152:8 161:6 5:18 52:13 57:14,15,16 93:8 95:18 97:21 98:6,16 9 5 7 9 169 11 19 effect engineer 79:13 121:22 125:10,13 160:17 160:17,18,19,21 161:1 174:19 2:4 35:9 48:22 87:14 133:1 136:18 140:6 142:14 pffprtc engineering 8:6,8,18 9:4 11:17 169:5 enhanced dollar 86:17 23:19,22 24:3,9,10,15,20 26:20 27:6 28:18 29:2,14 11:6,9 entered dollars 29:22 30:8,15 168:7 169:13 174:6 essentially 177:18 establish 134:8 established 151:23 estate 118:8 et 1:9,12 121:23 162:9,9 evade 17:19 evaporate 103:12 evasive 26:11,12 36:4 96:9 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032732 [event - flat] event expected facility (cont.) fell 104:8 126:10,14 31:21 32:12 41:8 42:14 140:21 events expeditiously 146:10 felt 56:17 175:11 87:2 121:22 fact 126:13 131:20 143:22 eventually expended 19:20 25:13,16 30:7 34:6 fenced 44:5,11 64:22 99:7 103:15 90:5 44:15 50:3 61:2,12 65:8 100:21 103:16 104:9 176:8 expenses 69:12 71:21 84:16 89:8 field everybody 167:23 100:21 105:16 108:7 109:9 30:9 110:6 experience 111:3 141:20 156:3 157:23 figure everyday 153:12 154:13 172:23 169:3 175:16,22 176:6,9 146:19 141:8,14 142:3 152:16,18 expert facts figuring evidence 9:17 23:19 24:3,5,17,22 22:17 50:1 67:21 141:11 97:15 2:14 39:23 52:9,11 25:3,6,7,10,12,15,21,22 142:8 158:8,18 173:4 filed exact 29:8 30:9 79:11 82:5 172:5 177:19 146:2 147:4 165:22 81:3 92:5 95:2 100:8 expertise factual files 102:13 107:22 124:9 129:2 29:3 53:5,7,10,11,15 65:14 62:14 73:10 74:6 57:4 152:4 105:2 124:17 154:13 155:8 factually final exactly 176:23 52:8 80:7 116:20,21 117:12,21 77:12 84:18 93:3 94:16 experts fail 117:22 118:4 96:10 97:15 129:22 143:6 29:6,12,15,15,20 30:1 175:7 financial 168:23 169:3 explain fair 118:13,16 examination 18:6 174:9 26:2 37:5 39:12 64:16,18 find 4:3 5:11 6:13 explained 65:10 75:17 81:22 101:3,8 145:21 149:21 156:23 examined 29:7 96:3 111:12 112:16 168:4 fine 5:14 explaining fairly 5:19 26:3 93:20 129:4 example 20:9 78:21 98:17 128:23 151:23 149:15 40:11 67:8 68:14 69:9,11 explanation 152:12 finger 69:11 121:2 142:21 143:5 153:7 fall 134:23 148:23 exceed expose 122:4 finish 48:9 97:14 falling 18:23 exceptions exposed 102:7 finished 120:14,15 76:18 83:20 84:1,2 95:5 false 17:21 29:10 exchange 102:9 171:17,19 17:18 18:2,6,7,8,10 19:14 fire 113:2 169:7 exposing 40:6 41:11 11:10 exchanged 98:5 familiar first 77:9 109:2 exposure 9:15 5:14 7:19 12:12 14:4 56:8 excuse 24:8,11 26:20 28:18 29:13 family 59:9 77:5,7 78:17 93:14 133:17 29:21 30:8 95:4 171:20 8:20 101:22 106:4 107:2,2,3 exhibit express fancy 108:2,3 109:4 120:10 124:7 4:15,16 123:16,21 149:7 51:6 86:7 124:7 132:23 138:12 164:8 161:13,16 163:1 164:4 extent far fish exhibits 43:13 103:11 104:2 105:5 13:23 23:2 28:20 53:2 48:5,9,10,14,19 50:14,23 133:6,7,8 106:21 111:18 121:17 84:1999:22 105:13 111:15 51:11 52:17 53:2,3,5,6 exist 124:12 156:6 157:17 114:12 117:19 130:7 54:13 171:23 172:18 173:5 84:19,20 116:14 167:21 131:15 157:6 173:22 175:7 177:10,13,15 existed external faust 177:16,22 178:1 169:13,21 32:5,15 153:20 154:2,16 156:10,13 fit exists 116:13 expand 19:3 21:1699:10 expect 32:7 67:20 169:2 expectations 120:5,6 f face 8814 facilitate 100:1 133:23 139:2,22 facilities 99'8 facility 157:2,7 faust's 154:10 feasible 122:13 feel 6:7 25:19 27:20 76:13 128:4,22 173:1 131:18 150:17 five 13:1320:8 137:16 157:9 169:3 174:6 fix 118:14 155:18 flat 84:7 6:21,23 7:14 14:7 21:22 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032733 [flow - guess] flow form (cont.) g going 64:21 102:14 154:17 141:9,16 142:4 143:13 garrety 12:14,15 15:3 21:2 25:9 flowed 144:9 145:1 150:2 151:4 115:8 154:8,14 26:5,6 34:11 37:12 42:7 44:21 46:16 153:3,21 157:4,15 158:3,13 gee 43:14 49:13 56:9 75:9 78:2 flows 159:2,17 172:3,20 173:8,23 78:7 94:22 119:22 170:12 87:14 88:12 89:5 94:2,4,16 64:22 65:12,14 172:14,15 175:8 176:15 178:2 general 95:8,23 96:18 99:1 104:2 176:7,10 formal 9:17,18,19 12:22 13:1 14:1 111:18 117:18 119:23 fluid 9:5,7,14 162:2 165:10 14:5,6,13 34:18,19,22 120:20 121:17 123:2 130:6 11:19,21 12:1,17 168:12 73:19 88:15 92:6 102:14 132:22 133:15 136:14 focus formally 110:18 132:11 155:23 141:2 143:3 160:10 164:3 95:6,7 119:16 169:11 171:8,12,16,21 164:19 165:12 166:7 167:2 focused forma n generally 167:3 155:23 156:4 1:21 3:4 5:7 63:22 65:8 102:13 103:19 good follow former 154:11 11:19,21,23 12:16 100:13 120:7 126:7 127:6 129:19 108:20 general's 126:11 131:14,21 forth 35:6 gosh followed 137:5 generated 85:9 78:1,4 143:11 forty 113:22 gotten following 11:4 15:1243:5 61:1 generic 19:12 26:12 158:2 5:11 29:23 39:21 131:12,13 forward 79:18 grading 143:20 53:2 120:13 121:22 generically 99:11 follows found 79:12 graduate 5:15 47:9,19 48:2 53:4,20 68:21 gentleman 8:1,3 force 69:12 75:3 79:5 86:8 107:14 108:19 109:19 grammas 2:4 101:10,17 109:3 122:17 115:19 3:6 4:3 5:17 6:4,10,13 16:6 forced 135:4 162:4 geographic 16:19 25:3,6,9,13,16 26:1,9 170:7 foundation 60:6 26:14,16 27:15,19 28:4,13 foregoing 27:8 28:23 51:2,4 61:18 geographical 28:15 38:15 45:8 49:16,19 5:5 179:7,10 180:5 63:12 64:7 73:9 75:5 82:4 60:9 49:21 50:1,2,8 51:3,9,17,21 foremost 82:21 83:3 90:19 91:8 93:6 geography 53:17 54:5 57:8 59:20 74:2 12:12 97:23 105:1,15 144:10 176:19 96:5,9,13,18 97:1 98:7 foresman 145:2 157:16 158:14 172:4 georgia 100:11 101:13 122:20 108:20 109:6 110:8,16 172:21 173:9 174:1 175:9 6:20,23 20:19 67:12 123:17 128:6 134:23 136:1 111:8 113:12 114:16 117:7 176:16 178:3 getting 136:5 137:3,19,23 138:5 117:9,11 118:12 four 14:1024:1831:2 33:1,2 145:14,20 146:1 149:9,12 foresman's 13:13 19:17 57:2 77:16 41:9 114:8 116:7 156:21 149:18 174:2,10,15,23 113:11 114:10 133:18 169:2 give 175:20 178:7 forget frame 9:4 21:6 23:15 28:21 40:8 great 110:1 40:22 50:9 77:14 86:21 142:7 150:8,8 151:11,20 form franklin given ground 2:10 10:15 17:10 18:4,17 3:12 35:10 54:20 55:3,7 81:11 83:15,19 85:21 86:3,9,11 19:16,22 20:7 22:2,16,22 free 110:22 113:9 179:11 97:7,8 98:16 99:15 156:1 23:13 24:21 27:7,20 28:22 128:4,22 141:18 152:14,15 gives grounds 29:17 35:14 37:6,19 38:8 152:17 153:1,9 89:15 2:12 56:6 167:23 38:13 42:3 43:7 44:17 fresh 45:16 46:7,22 50:16 51:1 93:1 go 6:10 16:9 17:11 18:9 20:10 group 108:15,19 110:15 52:22 54:3,17 56:5 57:20 front 30:10 37:7,20 77:18 78:7 groups 57:23 61:4,17 62:4 63:11 54:10 123:4 168:22 83:22 84:22 85:13 90:19 40:10 64:6 66:9 67:3,18 69:21 full 93:8 95:17 96:11,16,21 guarantee 72:1 73:8 74:3 75:4 81:18 2:4 6:14 98:9 100:12 119:19 122:9 50:5 82:3,20 83:2 90:18 91:7 functional 133:15 135:7 138:9 145:21 guess 92:16 93:5 96:2 97:22 108:14 111:17 112:3,6,19 146:18 175:15,15 9:13 14:10 15:1 19:2 21:1 101:17 102:19 103:9 funds goal 28:11,13 35:20 42:8 56:7 104:23 105:14 111:13 90:5 134:9 148:7 65:13 71:10 76:16 102:16 121:5 122:21 129:21 further goes 110:11 112:11 116:20 132:18,20 135:19 139:10 2:1,8 120:16 179:14 5:22 129:23 117:10 147:23 154:11 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032734 [guess - indicating] guess (cont.) health honestly implies 155:19 173:11 23:19,22 24:3,8,10,15,19 149:17 83:17 136:4 151:14,18 guidance 26:20 27:6 28:18 29:2,14 hope imply 120:17 127:9 138:19 156:9 29:22 30:8,15 48:8,8,16,19 22:3 92:1 17:20 112:13 guideline 49:2,5 50:11,14,20 126:9 host implying 130:2 132:9 133:9 135:2 127:15 130:22 12:941:21 136:10 144:16,17 148:6 hear houston important guidelines 26:20 56:8 70:8 122:2 125:7,9 126:5 16:11 156:19 121:11 126:8,9,11 127:15 heard huh imported 128:20,21 129:11,13 130:5 29:12,1441:1756:10,11 60:22 82:16 88:3 128:13,16 64:5 158:8 130:14,21,21,23 131:3,13 65:6,9 128:19 129:15 131:1 imposed 131:14,19 132:4,12,21,23 hearing 133:11,14,19 134:6 136:19 120:3 140:4,9 133:3 136:12,18,22 138:21 30:15 55:1 108:23 146:14 136:23 146:7 impossible 140:6,11 141:23 142:14,17 151:10 179:12 human 66:17 120:12 175:2 143:6,12,17,21 144:19 held 22:15,20 23:3,6,15 24:8,11 impression 150:21 151:13 8:10 24:19 26:19 27:6 28:18 21:16 guy he'll 29:14 30:8,15 improper 26:641:3 67:14 110:4,11 6:11 humans 27:21 54:6,8 56:6 115:13,15,16,22 help 23:23 24:15 29:21 improperly guys 13:11 145:16,18 hundred 22:9 54:4 145:16___________________ helping 104:14 125:1,5 inappropriate h 154:4 hydrogeological h.j. 126:16 hesitant 22:8,12 115:6 154:12 hypothetical hairs hesitated 90:20 50:8 91:22 i hal hesitation idea 126:18 half 18:22 hey 6:1 88:16,17 89:3 ideas 26:7 27:15 48:21 49:8 93:18 76:10 89:6 handling 143:19 144:3 149:1 identification 81:14,16 hierarchy 161:14 164:2 happened 32:8 68:12 85:23 105:18,21 149:2,3 161:23 169:4 111:15 126:1 127:3 high 81:1 101:1 177:16 happening highly 42:15 hard 84:16 137:8 80:16 highway 103:20 identify 62:19 147:5 157:23 imagine 166:13 immediate 89:12 106:5,18 143:21 immediately harm hindsight 85:19 108:6 121:19 171:9 81:15 impact harmless historical 67:1,16 68:9 168:8 harms 37:21 72:3 94:14 161:22 historically impacting 68:5 120:21 121:4,8,12 122:3,15 13:16 impertinent 123:3,6,22 124:1 history 136:9 hazardous 41:7 13:3 14:2 64:14 74:8 99:23 120:10 implement 119:23 head hold implemented 15:7 41:3 48:3 51:9 52:18 8:5 126:20 158:9 120:9 67:14 69:6 131:22 140:2 holding implication 147:8 168:7 40:17 heading 133:16,17 home 148:3 implicit 113:8 headings honcho implicitly 135:13 15:7 51:10 140:2 23:12 124:10 145:8 include 19:9,19 20:16 22:5 68:4 122:16 155:11 included 14:22,22 31:5 110:15 118:5 126:22 includes 66:12 including 17:3 19:8 46:20 79:7,8,9 93:11 147:10 incorrect 135:9 141:6 increased 167:22 incredible 28:2 incurred 166:19 indemnification 166:4,12 168:10 indemnify 165:20 166:7 168:19 indemnity 168:6 169:12,21 indicate 77:21 indicated 94:14 indicating 84:8 128:13,16,19 129:15 131:1 133:11,14,19 134:6 136:19,23 146:7 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032735 [indirect - know] indirect intent 19:13 82:12 86:23 88:21 97:16 individual 119:19 131:11 123:8 131:20 146:15 intention individuals 83:5 60:5 144:15 intentionally industrial 33:1245:1381:5,1082:17 60:4 78:21 144:14 82:18 83:1 industry intentions 12:3 21:5 influenced interested 53:12 14:3 15:2 156:22 179:16 informally interjecting 14:11 27:22 information intermediate 12:23,23 13:2,23 14:5,6 103:13 34:4 41:13 42:20 43:9,10 intermediates 43:12,16 47:1,12 52:20 7:2 67:22 68:1,17 69:15 70:5 internal 70:22 74:7 85:18 95:1 13:20 32:3,4,5 39:15 107:1 108:4 155:20 157:1,3 113:21 120:5,17 125:3 159:9,20 162:5 141:1 informed internally 85:16 109:10,17 9:21 109:13 inherent internet 176:17 123:11,15 inherently interposing 141:6 136:2 initial interpret 95:3,6,7 70:10 135:4 141:4 147:23 initials 148:5 150:6 153:14,16 110:2 interpretation initiatives 135:9,11 140:20 150:7 119:21 interrupt input 16:10 115:5 117:13 154:13 155:8 intervening inquiries 138:20 14:23 interviewed inside 9:2 55:12,13 110:14 141:2,19 interviews instruct 55:3 49:7,14 50:10 intimately instructed 169:6 49:13 introduced instruction 60:6 52:3 112:20 invade instructions 49:16 50:19 invades insurance 50:7 35:23 invading intellect 49:11 169:11,15,17,23 170:3 investigate intend 87:3 157:21 151:21 investigated intended 41:1567:11 10:13 150:18 investigating jones 35:4 90:3 95:14 107:4 109:20,22 110:1,1,3 investigation 110:6,6,8 115:4,9,14,16,18 37:15 39:23 40:2 71:13 115:19,23 116:4 78:15 95:3 155:21 167:14 joneses 167:22 110:5 investigations journal 159:20 10:4 involuntarily journals 145:18 29:5 involved jr 66:1 72:6 77:6 90:22 118:3 3:5 118:11 143:2 153:20 154:2 judge 169:6,9 176:19 81:21 involvement judgment 21:7 116:5 153:23 12:5 involves july 146:23 161:18 162:23 irresponsible jump 81:1697:13 124:18 issue june 24:23 26:19 31:8,12,13 7:11 32:11,19 36:10,11 58:8,10 jury 58:17 67:15 72:4,7 75:13 20:17,21 21:3,6,6,10,12,18 77:2 88:7 89:10 92:13 21:20 54:11 152:23 177:21 93:23,23 109:11 113:23 k 114:11 117:19 118:9 122:7 keep 122:7 124:13 135:4 155:9 164:20 174:7,7 20:1 128:7 137:17,21 keeps issued 20:2 177:13 issues 13:13 14:16 16:12,13,16,21 25:7 28:17 32:16,17 53:6 65:17,22,22 66:1,7,23 67:6 kin 179:15 kind 9:15 12:15 13:3 29:4 32:14 41:1243:13,1544:1067:22 67:7,20,23 68:4,6,7,9,12 85:9 99:12 100:2 101:1 69:7,18 70:3 71:4,22 74:9 75:9,19,21 76:3 87:4 93:14 112:1 113:6 130:7 131:16 138:18 142:18 158:11 159:14 162:18 164:23 106:7 110:19,22 150:19 156:9,10 171:19,20 knew 15:14,16 34:8,12 76:8 91:13 165:13 168:8 know j 5:18 9:22 11:18,22,23 12:3 january 12:4,16 15:11,21 16:7,12 136:4 16:15,22 17:1,4 21:4,9,18 jefferson 21:20 22:9,14,20 23:2,8,16 179:4 23:18 24:10,23 27:18,23 jerry 28:4,11,20 32:16 36:4,16 12:21 13:5,6,7 47:13,15 40:17,1843:1,13,13,15,15 65:5,6 72:12 43:1844:1,9,10,1245:13 jill 45:18 46:4,14 47:8,18 48:4 1:19 5:1 59:20 179:21 48:5,10 50:4 51:20 53:2,12 job 53:13 54:16,21,23 55:16 8:23 14:19,21 32:6 132:17 56:13 58:5 59:10 60:2 138:1 145:6 149:16,17 62:13,14 63:3,3 64:8,9,11 64:13,15 66:14 67:5,21,23 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032736 [know - logan] know (cont.) lake (cont.) leaders levels 68:2,9,23 70:16 71:1 73:10 134:20 135:18 157:14 162:11 48:8 53:3 80:17 81:1,3 74:22,23 75:6,7,8,9,21 76:3 158:12,23 159:15 161:7 leadership 177:16,23 77:11,20 78:20 79:12,21,22 172:2,15 173:7 176:10,13 133:22 134:17,21 135:15 liabilities 80:8 81:3,12,15,20,23 82:6 177:1,11 139:1,21 149:21 165:7 82:10 84:5,17,18,19,20 land leading liability 87:11 90:9,1791:1,12 82:7,8 93:19 99:9 106:1 2:11 166:14 90:1 134:11 148:8 149:22 92:10 93:7,8,22 94:13,21 113:2 118:8 165:5,14,17 leads 166:19 170:15 95:1,5 97:5,6 99:4 100:5,8 166:9 42:11,12 liar 100:9,23 102:13 103:13,18 landfill leak 54:22,23 104:1,13 105:3,13,16,21 16:23 17:1,7,14,20 18:2,10 97:19 lightfoot 106:8,22 108:4,16 109:6,9 18:13,15 19:6,15,18,21 leaking 3:12 109:10,16,21 110:13,18,19 20:5,12 21:13,22 22:5,9,13 32:21 38:5,11,20 39:4 limit 110:21 111:7 112:8,12 32:21 33:7,11,13,16,20 leaned 35:1 40:22 63:6 66:19 113:17,18 116:7,11,18,20 38:5,11,20 39:5 67:9 68:15 148:22 limited 117:5,13,13,15 118:3,9,10 68:19,22 69:10 76:2 79:2 learn 11:18 44:22 156:2 118:15,15 120:22 121:23 81:6 82:1 84:11,16,23 85:1 14:14 107:3 171:1 limits 122:7 123:12 124:17 85:2,14,22 86:6,13 91:15 learned 70:23 128:14 131:2 139:16 92:9,15 93:1,2,4,10 94:12 9:21 12:14 43:1 45:11 89:7 line 142:20,23 144:13 145:11 94:17 95:14 96:1 103:7 89:9,13,14 98:13 107:2 28:9 109:16 125:14 181:2 145:14 146:22 147:2,4 104:20 105:23 112:2 114:1 108:1 109:1 113:7 lines 148:4,15 153:18 154:1,11 114:2,11 142:21 153:21 leave 79:1 154:13,16 156:3,5,10,19 155:9 156:11,14,20 167:20 21:15 33:20 39:10 40:3,19 linked 157:6,8,21 159:22 160:2,13 landfills 175:23 109:11 162:3 165:13 167:13 153:1,18 leaving linking 168:10,14,16 169:14 170:7 landowners 32:23 41:9 43:17 98:5 169:23 170:3 171:4 172:6,7,9,13 173:14 33:1 41:10 167:7 112:15 124:15 155:16 list 173:16,21 175:11,14 landowner's 156:20 167:18 168:9 60:11,12 127:12,20 128:12 176:18,20 31:2 led 128:15 177:7 knowingly large 52:17 78:10 108:19 159:10 listened 40:18 81:5,10 1:20 5:3 78:21 87:21 88:1 leering 136:8 knowledge late 135:1 listening 9:20 10:6,18,19 11:17 77:14,15 100:7 102:2 left 95:9 20:22 24:17 30:5 31:14 145:23 146:2 174:20 42:23 43:19 44:11,20 74:19 literature 32:7 34:3 35:5 39:8,18 40:2 latitude 74:20 86:1,2,8 94:20 26:18 40:21 59:10 63:13 82:22 132:1,2 106:22 155:20 157:20 litigation 83:4 86:1 91:20 110:20 law legal 75:9 87:5 155:8,11 159:4 171:12 1:20 5:7 119:18,20 166:13 118:5 136:10,13 147:4 litigious 176:23 180:6 laws 150:4 152:1 152:2 known 2:5 legalese little 22:15,20 23:15 32:16 lawsuit 147:20,22 148:5 63:5 113:18 120:10 121:19 knows 50:6 88:14 132:16 145:11 legalistic 127:17 161:22 157:3 145:15,20 146:2,18,22 151:21 152:8,13 live 1 147:4,12 150:19 151:9 lab 13:9 lack 27:8 28:23 51:2,3 63:12 64:7 75:5 82:21 83:3 90:19 91:8 93:6 97:23 105:1,15 144:10 145:2 157:16 158:14 172:4,21,22 173:9 174:1 175:9 176:16 178:3 lake 37:4,17 39:12 40:5 47:19 48:4,7 55:6,22 75:15 124:2 152:5 lawsuits 165:21 lawyer 20:2 119:10 148:18,22 166:13 lawyers 49:7,13 layman 147:23 148:1 lead 73:12,12 74:7 132:4,13 legitimate 166:16 167:17 lengthy 152:8 lessened 151:21 letter 49:7 128:17 161:17,19,21 162:2,13,18,22 164:5,8,12 164:15,18 165:10,15,16 level 83:19 125:21 20:1821:6,12 local 110:3 112:4 115:13 130:2 located 21:21 55:21 locations 60:7,9 logan 37:4,17 39:12 40:5 47:20 48:4,7 55:6,22 75:15 124:2 134:20 135:18 157:14 158:12,23 159:15 161:7 172:2,15 173:7 176:10,13 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032737 [logan - modifications] logan (cont.) man (cont.) marked memoranda 177:1,11 117:17 169:4 174:2 161:13 164:1 113:22 logic managed martin memorandum 175:7,10,10 116:18 37:4,17 39:12 40:5 47:20 127:15 long management 48:4,7 55:6,22 75:15 124:2 memory 7:4 15:15 23:22 24:8 26:10 1:9 109:17 133:12,13,16 134:20 135:18 157:14 78:2 103:23 168:13 169:15 31:13 63:2 81:20 84:17 135:13 154:15 171:16 158:12 159:1,15 161:7 169:22 170:3 100:6 137:10 160:14 manager 172:2,16 173:7 176:10,14 mention 170:17 6:20,22 7:14 15:4,7,17 177:1,11 31:17 40:16 148:22 longer 16:18,20 30:20 31:5,21 masters mentioned 162:2 32:22 33:23 34:2 39:18 8:11 169:5 14:1223:11 32:9 40:11 look 45:12 52:2,10 55:10,20 material 76:1 87:15 97:4,5 98:14 83:23 95:4 96:18 104:13 65:15 66:4,20 68:11 69:6 12:13 13:21 76:20 77:21,22 136:13,15 154:7 161:11 127:20 128:4,9,22 129:4 70:7 71:3,21 73:14 75:11 80:10,11 81:14 83:20 86:13 merit 175:1 76:22 120:7 125:14,15,16 95:6 97:5,14,18 106:17 136:2 looked 125:20 129:19 130:8 162:3 171:17,19,21 mid 13:16 120:13 149:5 159:6 131:20 134:17 135:15,20 materials 154:1 177:9 135:22 136:16,21 137:7,12 12:15 19:18 22:4,5 68:21 middle looking 138:14,15 140:7,22 142:13 77:23 79:8 86:6 167:4,6 110:2 148:12,13 149:4 13:12,1581:1597:9 117:15 146:5,6,9,16 147:1 154:20 171:14 mike 128:6,8 155:23 158:21 159:4,13 160:7 matter 108:20 109:6 110:22 looks 161:9,12 164:16 20:21 21:3 25:10 54:1 111:17,20 112:12,15 125:8 managerial 107:15 111:3 113:11 114:13,21 115:1 lot 171:7 mean 116:20 117:2,7,9 5:22 26:15 38:22 98:9 managers 13:15,17 15:16 16:9 17:15 mike's 117:13 137:11 142:22 119:13 26:6 28:19 41:20,21,22,22 110:18 145:7 155:19 177:5 mandate 41:23 42:2,6 49:10 51:3 miles louis 131:13 57:9 61:23 67:8 69:1 73:21 109:10 115:11,15,16 116:2 155:1 mandates 80:3 82:7 84:3 88:22 91:22 milestones love 120:8 115:10 119:10 121:1,4,8,12 115:2 168:13 manner 121:14 124:1 127:3 131:8 miller lowe 35:14 129:2 153:20 132:2 150:9,10 153:14,17 115:8 154:8,14 3:5 79:15 145:18 man's 160:2,9 169:4 174:23 177:6 million lower 123:17 meaning 174:6 125:18,22,23 manufacture 98:22 141:8,14 142:3 millions lying 7:1 13:19 17:13,23 18:12 152:17,18 172:12 54:2 20:1438:1 46:1461:19 meanings mind m 63:1 79:9,22 141:12 machine 160:3 mail 125:3 main 84:5 93:23,23 95:2 major 132:5,14 133:21 134:12 139:4,20 143:22 144:6,6,22 144:23 146:10,12,19 148:9 148:20 149:20 making 10:17,19 11:3,4 13:13 31:23 56:22 90:23 117:12 133:6 134:21 155:8 man 52:18 88:4 105:22 109:4 manufactured 10:13 11:12 14:4,7 15:11 15:14,22 16:5 30:23 31:23 32:10 41:8 43:5 44:3 45:15 45:21 46:11 62:3 63:7 64:1 68:23 69:2 158:2 172:12 175:17 manufacturer 19:7 64:3 manufacturers 64:4 manufacturing 7:15 10:7 45:7 59:23 61:1 61:14,16 62:22 79:20 80:13 82:23 101:5,7,10,15 map 103:17 114:14 means 17:16 19:20 27:11 51:5 79:13,17,1995:18 112:19 121:16,19 129:18 130:5 140:20,23 175:19 measures 106:19 meeting 143:4 meetings 154:2,3,9 member 153:10,13 members 8:20 109:15 memo 93:17 125:4 58:18 72:7 121:13 122:5 minds 85:11 minimum 130:6 minute 77:4 85:12 87:9 88:12 98:8 157:9 mischaracterizes 38:9,14 46:8 92:17 missouri 8:4 misunderstood 31:18 mobile 105:4 modifications 130:1 111:8,9 114:16 116:8,11,13 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032738 [molecules - officer] molecules monsanto's negatively object 19:9 11:13 17:8 19:1521:7,19 131:22 152:1 10:15 17:10 18:4,17 19:16 moment 21:22 29:6,12,15,19 32:21 negotiating 19:22 20:7 22:2,16,22 32:20 38:19 97:4 32:23 39:18 55:5,21 56:14 169:6 23:13 24:21 27:7,20 28:22 money 59:22 82:12 87:1 88:20 negotiations 37:6,19 38:8,13 42:3 43:7 89:18 90:2,4 151:1 157:20 101:7,10,15 106:18 122:14 151:22 165:18 44:17 45:16 46:7,22 50:16 monitored 126:3 132:13 146:9 152:14 neighboring 51:1 52:22 54:3,17 56:5 47:8 166:15 168:18 170:12 31:2 32:2 33:1 41:9 73:16 57:20,23 61:4,17 62:4 monitoring months 73:23 74:12,14 75:14 97:20 63:11 64:6 66:9 67:3,18 47:7 162:1 156:21 167:7 69:21 72:1 73:8 74:3 75:4 monsanto morning neighbors 81:18 82:3,20 83:2 90:18 1:7,126:18,23 7:8,13,15,18 171:4 74:17 91:7 92:16 93:5 96:2 97:22 7:20 8:15,17,21 9:1,10,21 motivated neither 102:19 103:9 104:23 9:22 10:6,10,17,19,21 11:3 14:13,14 53:4 179:14 105:14 111:13 121:5 12:6,13 13:13,14,21 14:14 move new 122:21 129:21 132:18 15:5,11,21 25:17,18 31:23 22:3 122:9 39:1 67:22 69:14 70:5,21 135:19 139:10 141:9,16 33:5,9,12,15,19 34:13,15 moved 70:22 119:21 130:21 159:5 142:4 143:13 144:9 145:1 34:18,20 35:3 36:8 37:2,16 100:1 120:13 159:9,19,20 150:2 151:4 153:3 157:4,15 38:6 39:10,15 40:2,18,23 moving newer 158:3,13 159:2,17 172:3,20 41:4,7 42:13,16,18 43:2,3 83:17 98:5 121:22 156:13 78:23 173:8,23 175:8 176:15 44:1,1545:11,1346:10,13 167:1 nineteen 178:2 47:2 49:2,8 50:12,22 51:7 mud 170:19,20 objecting 51:10,12 52:15 53:21 54:15 138:2___________________ noncontact 20:2 56:3 57:10 58:23 59:15 n 60:17,20 61:1,7,12,21,22 62:1,20 63:8,10,16,23 64:11 65:5 66:5,20 71:14 71:19 74:16,23 77:9,23 78:6,9,11 79:3,6 81:5,9 82:13,18 84:22 86:5 88:1,4 88:16 89:1,5,13 90:2,6,9,11 90:14,17,21 91:1,4,19,23 92:12,18,22 93:10,18 94:10 94:15 95:10,22 98:12 99:6 100:19 101:5 108:11,15 109:11 111:1,10,16,22 113:3,5,22 114:17 116:8,14 117:17,23 118:22 119:4,13 120:2,3,8,21 123:9,21 124:9,10 125:12 126:21 129:3 130:21 132:4 135:14 135:16 140:13,16 141:2,19 142:17 144:6,19,22 145:9 147:11 148:6,7 150:10 151:9,13 152:6,23 153:8 154:20 156:22 157:2,12,18 157:19 158:2,10,22 159:7 159:12 160:16,18,19,21 161:1,6 162:6,14 164:13,16 164:22 165:6,8,11,12,17,19 165:20,20 166:6,8,8 167:4 167:16 168:3,7 169:7 170:10,16,18 171:12,17,22 173:5,13,21 175:3,4,6,17 175:22 176:12,22 177:22 name 6:14 72:18 80:21 109:23 110:12 123:17 127:11,19 147:5 154:6 177:6 named 107:14 108:20 109:19 117:7 names 107:22 177:7 narrowed 173:10 naturally 63:20 nature 9:23 11:10 28:8 156:5 161:22 near 114:7 necessarily 42:10 58:5 82:10 122:6 130:13 158:1 necessary 2:9 6:8 13:1825:19 need 15:21 27:19 40:8,8 57:13 93:18 94:3 96:15 127:20 133:9 134:17 142:7 145:6 146:8,17,18 needed 11:8 16:7 31:9 65:23 87:3 89:1093:13 117:1 131:21 41:22 objection normal 121:10 122:18,20 136:1 32:6 82:23 83:7 142:2 174:9 normally objections 54:22 79:17 83:8 2:9,12 north obligation 1:22 3:8,14 5:8 102:16 140:9 notary obligations 1:20 5:2 180:21 120:3,6 140:4 notes observed 27:17 83:10 99:19 100:4 143:16 noticed obtain 96:20,23 98:15 99:14 100:2 8:13 102:1 obviously notifications 99:10 102:7 109:14 113:9 162:10 114:5 128:23 147:3 notified occasion 110:17 7:7 november occur 130:15 131:2 136:17 63:20 74:21 174:21 137:13 138:16 occurred number 16:1 18:1 31:13 45:6 65:20 1:5,10 66:4 133:10,18 68:7 74:19 81:20,22 106:22 160:1,1 161:13 164:1 occurring nutrasweet 34:4,5 41:14 68:10 73:21 7:2 73:23 nutshell offered 150:1 162:18,21 164:18 2:13 o oath 24:1 38:4 51:12 53:23 54:10 55:18 69:20 71:2 offering 24:22 25:1 officer 119:11 119:11,15,15 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032739 [offices - people] offices opposite party pcbs (cont.) 1:20 5:7 152:4 49:3 50:12,23 51:12 52:15 122:4,8,16 124:1 132:3,6 official optional 57:10 134:19 142:18 143:19 14:15,19 43:2 44:1 45:11 129:14 paths 144:4,7,13,20,23 146:13,20 oh oral 108:16 147:13,18 151:15 155:12 26:14 85:9 89:16 99:3 5:11 180:8 pay 155:16 156:2,5,11,13,20 113:4 115:22 137:14,15 order 8:15,17 89:18 141:2 151:1 157:18 158:2 161:6 162:5 156:15 106:14 pcb 162:15,15 167:5,18 168:9 okay ordinary 10:21 13:13 14:6 16:2 17:4 171:2,5,8,13,18 172:13,16 6:9 8:3 12:12 14:18 18:9 141:14 152:16 17:13,23 19:8 24:8,11 27:6 173:13,14,14 175:19,23 20:17 28:6 32:19 34:7 35:7 ourself 28:18 29:13,21 30:8 32:19 176:12,22 177:4,16 37:13 39:3 40:7 45:1,12 120:4 33:13 34:9,14 37:3 46:13 peck 47:11,1848:5,18 56:16,17 outside 48:8,12 49:3 50:3,4,12 53:3 3:13 5:21 6:3,6 10:15 16:4 58:7,23 59:12 60:20 61:22 64:4 105:2 54:11 59:23 60:9,15 63:9 16:18 17:10 18:4,9,17,23 62:10,16 63:5 65:4 71:8 overall 64:12,14 68:19 69:7,17 19:16,22 20:7 22:1,16,22 73:19 74:5 76:1,21 77:18 15:9 66:21 70:2 71:4,22 75:14 76:2 23:13 24:21 25:4,7,11,14 78:17 80:23 86:14 91:4 oversight 79:8,20 92:11 113:6,23 25:20 26:4,12 27:7,13,17 93:16 95:21 99:3 107:18 32:7 114:11,17 122:8 132:15 28:1,7,22 33:22 37:6,19 113:4 123:15 124:6 130:19 owned 135:17 146:11 147:6 152:9 38:8,13 42:3 43:7 44:17 131:5 132:8 136:3 137:6 91:14 100:6,13 166:1,17 152:14,15,17,20 153:1,9,17 45:5,16 46:7,22 47:21 139:16 147:16 148:1,17 ownership 157:12 158:11,22 159:14 49:10,18,20,23 50:5,16 151:16 153:10 159:11 99:23___________________ 171:14 172:13 173:6 51:1,5,14,19,22 52:22 169:18 170:4 old 78:23 79:2 ole 152:16 once 14:7 89:13 105:23 106:17 113:6 147:3 173:15 ones 23:10 80:23 131:3 132:23 ongoing 32:11 65:22 oozing 83:14,16,17 open 158:9 operated 116:22 operating 129:12 134:7 140:12,16,21 141:19,22 operation 15:9 operations 52:14 59:22 75:19 121:2 126:12 145:4 opinion 19:12 39:20 51:6 72:8,9 113:16 121:14 124:18 167:16 opportunity 145:5 opposed 21:11 P 177:23 53:16 54:3,6,17 56:5 57:20 page 4:3,4,5,6,15,16 128:11 133:16 181:2 paid 86:20 paper 148:23 papers 171:18 paragraph 133:18 139:12 148:12,13 149:4 172:8 part 9:18 15:16 30:21 31:20 41:5 59:1,4 79:5 80:5 82:23 85:17,18 99:10 113:9 124:7 132:16 140:6,10 142:15 148:7,15,16,19 160:20 171:23 173:5,21 175:5,6 177:21,22 participate 147:3 particular 18:20 39:16 47:21 60:2 135:14 139:3 151:14 particularly 154:16 parties 1:162:11 162:8 179:15 parts 48:6,11 71:13 104:12,18 157:13 158:23 159:15 172:2 177:13 pcbs 7:15 9:7,9,16,23 10:7,12,17 10:19,20 11:3,19 12:4 13:4 13:13,20,21 14:4,7,12,21 15:11,19,22 16:12,16,21,22 17:7 18:2,10,12,15 19:10 19:14,19,20 20:5,12,15,16 21:13,21 22:6,8,9,13,14,20 23:3,6,20,23 24:4,15,19,23 25:4,8,19 26:18,20 29:2 30:7 31:9,16 32:21 33:6,10 33:16,17,20 34:20 35:4 36:8 37:18 38:1,5,11,20 39:4,10 40:3,10 42:13 43:3 43:5,16,18 44:3,4,15 45:2,7 45:13,15,19,20,23 46:1,6 46:11,12,20,21 47:2,8,18 48:14 49:8 51:7 52:16 53:20 54:14 55:4,5,14,21 56:3,14 57:10 59:1,8,16,23 60:3,17,21 61:2,8,13,21 62:2,3,8,11,21 63:4,14,20 64:1,5,23 65:8 68:23 69:1 69:12,15 71:13 72:23 73:15 75:3 77:21,23 79:7,9,22,23 80:13,17,18,22 81:1,1,4 82:1,5,7,8,9,11 85:11,21 87:11 88:13 89:4,8,12,14 90:12,15 91:6,14 92:1,3,14 93:3,11,1994:5,11,17 95:11,15 96:1,14 97:2 98:13 101:4,9 103:7 104:21 104:21,22 105:3,11 111:11 57:23 61:4,14,17 62:4,22 63:11 64:6 66:9 67:3,18 69:21 70:12,15 71:5,9 72:1 73:8,21 74:3 75:4 81:18 82:3,20 83:2 90:18 91:7 92:16 93:5 96:2,7,15,20 97:22 100:10 101:3,12 102:19 103:9 104:23 105:14 109:22 110:3 111:13 115:13,16 116:13 117:6 121:5,10 122:18,21 123:11,19 128:4,7,22 129:4 129:21 132:18 133:3 134:2 134:22 135:19 136:4,6 137:1,6,10,16,21 138:4,7 139:5,10 141:9,15 142:4 143:13 144:9 145:1,16,23 147:20 148:2,11 149:2,11 149:15 150:2 151:4 153:3 157:4,9,15 158:3,13 159:2 159:17 160:16,20 167:8 172:3,20 173:8,23 174:4,13 174:18,21 175:8,19 176:15 178:2 pell 1:2 people 12:2,3,6,10,18 27:11 52:5 52:12 53:10 54:23 71:18 75:1,2 92:1 95:5,8 100:22 107:11,20,21 108:18 110:15 112:10,11 113:10 113:11 118:5 126:15 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032740 [people - preliminary] people (cont.) phone plant (cont.) possibility 142:22 177:5 107:5,9 109:5 143:10 109:5,15 112:4 113:10 46:18 60:13 62:17 97:19 perceived phosphates 114:13 120:7 125:7,9,12,12 158:9 152:1 14:4 125:16,19 126:4 130:9 possible percent physical 133:1,2 134:16 135:15,20 35:20 40:16 55:17 63:2 92:10 104:15 101:17 135:21 136:16,20 137:7,12 65:13 93:2 96:4 105:5,6 perfect physically 138:13,15,17 140:7,13,16 134:11 145:9 148:8 149:22 68:3 83:21,22 94:15 95:22 140:22 142:13 146:5,6,9,13 157:18 158:7 173:14 period 117:16 120:11 146:16 147:1 151:9 152:11 176:22 177:2 7:10,12 11:4 15:12,15,22 pick 152:14,23 153:9 158:21 possibly 16:1,3,4,14 32:22 33:22 76:12,15 109:5 159:4,13 160:7,11 161:8,12 107:11 34:16 40:23 43:5 44:2,14 picked 164:16 172:14,17 post 45:14,20 46:10,13 47:21 76:17 143:9 plants 50:14 52:1861:1,11 62:2,12,22 piece 53:10 141:19 posted 62:23 63:7 66:11,14 67:1 148:23 play 48:6,11 50:23 51:11 172:1 67:1668:10,11 69:1871:2 pierle 110:16 177:23 71:4,23 73:22 75:16 78:15 113:14 117:7 130:15,19 played potential 120:11 136:20 137:8 140:3 pipe 168:23 24:10 45:23 60:15 61:7,11 140:17 158:16,16,20 44:5 please 65:18,23 75:14 110:17 159:13 160:6 161:2,8 162:1 place 6:15 27:22 127:17 166:12 147:6 158:1 171:2,9 162:1 165:18 166:1 169:8 60:3 77:7 103:4,13 105:6 166:15 potentially 170:23 171:1 placed pledge 14:22 31:12 40:15 45:18,22 periodically 17:1333:1341:6 48:19 118:22 119:4,10,13,17,17 60:17,20 72:15 135:6 119:7 81:8 84:17,18 107:9 119:19,23 120:3,8,9,16,17 pounds permit places 120:23 121:20 122:15,18 92:14 93:3 94:11,17,22 129:12 84:11 108:12 122:22,23 123:2,10,12,21 95:11,15 96:1,14 97:2 permitted placing 124:9 130:21 172:12 130:3 122:17 pledged power persistent plaintiff 120:19 11:17 12:3 67:9 76:4 77:2,5 10:14 11:14 3:3 plus 77:9,23 78:6,10,19 79:1 person plaintiffs 170:20 83:9,12 85:6 86:15 87:6,9 12:22 47:16,17 99:3 102:1 1:5,10 point 87:16,18,20 88:12,16 89:7 108:13,20 112:23 117:11 plaintiff's 47:6 61:3 71:1685:12 89:15 98:12,15,20,23 99:14 personal 4:15,16 161:13,15 163:1 109:16 116:19 132:6 99:19 100:18,23 102:1 14:13 39:8 40:1 63:13 72:4 164:3 150:16 159:8 174:6 106:1,15,18 107:7,20,21 97:12 121:14 124:18 150:6 plan pointed 108:5 109:2 112:2 113:5 176:20 154:5 155:21 156:23 66:3 148:18 114:11,19 118:1 143:9,15 personally planning policies 144:2,3 154:3 155:17 13:1743:11 48:1758:4 20:20 132:13 150:23 151:7 161:17 162:13 164:21 59:9 60:11 62:13 63:4 plans policy 165:11,19,20,23 166:6,7,17 76:21 77:1 91:15 107:3 114:6 134:11 148:9 149:23 124:10 166:21 167:2,17 168:1,7,19 150:11 155:14 156:17 plant polychlorinated 168:19 169:8 perspective 6:20,22 7:4,8,14 12:19 13:6 9:6 power's 32:15 118:8,10 14:2 15:1,4,7,17 16:18,20 portion 166:9 167:19 pertaining 16:23 17:2,3,4,14 18:13 49:14 59:21 practical 16:12 19:6 21:8 26:7 30:20 31:4 portions 126:12 pete 31:14,21 32:22 33:23 34:2 99:9 103:18 139:7 practice 20:9 28:12 51:20 96:8 34:1339:11,18,1940:19,23 position 28:11 110:21 174:7 41:19 42:23 43:3,14,17,19 24:16 27:12 29:5,20 30:2 practices peter 44:11,20 45:19 46:16 48:20 43:18 125:18,19,21 126:20 66:1581:11,12 3:6 52:2,12,14 53:5,14 54:15 126:22 127:2 167:17 predated ph 55:10,19 62:7,9 65:15,19 170:12 171:18,22 19:5 1:6,11 66:5,20,22 67:17 68:12 positions predecessor pharmaceutical 69:16,19 70:4,6 71:3,21 30:4,6,11 170:16 72:17 7:2 73:14 75:2,11,20 76:22 possession preliminary 86:1,2 88:5 108:14,17 36:20 170:13 78:14 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032741 [premature - quite] premature procedures property (cont.) qualified 93:13 97:13,17 109:8 92:1,3 97:20 98:12,17,21 37:11 51:5,15 86:10 160:1 prepare proceeding 99:1,6,7 100:2,6,19,22 173:1 36:12,21 150:4 101:4 102:16,21 103:18 qualify prepared proceedings 106:6,16 109:2,8 114:20 70:8,17,23 114:5 114:6 171:18 5:12 117:23 118:3,17,20 143:3 quality preparing process 143:12,16,19,23 156:21 31:6 37:8,10 17:1332:1241:1742:1,22 162:7,14,16 164:21 165:23 question present 42:22 44:2,8,9,20 45:18,22 166:17 167:6,7 168:9 169:7 14:16 17:5,11,19,20 18:3,5 20:12,20 21:2,5 22:8 38:1 46:15,15,1953:1261:15,16 170:13 18:6,7,8,18 19:4,12,17 20:3 51:10 79:6,8,11 80:12 82:1,14,23 proposals 20:4,6,8 21:9 22:2,17,23 presented 83:4,6,7 92:11 101:8,11,15 168:2,18,21 23:1,14 24:22 27:8,9,21 88:17 101:21 113:10 143:3 147:3 propose 28:23 31:11,17,18 33:8,17 president processed 11:19 37:7,12,20 38:9,14,23 39:1 107:12 176:3 prospective 40:8 42:4 43:8,12,20,22,23 press processes 32:3,5 171:16 43:23 44:6,18 45:17 46:8,9 40:1578:1 171:18 17:3 66:13 146:23 prospectives 46:23 49:5,11,15 50:6,17 pretreatment processing 32:4 51:2,15,18 52:23 53:1,8 43:14 44:10 80:1 protect 54:4,8,18 55:23 56:6 57:12 pretty produced 28:2 50:1 58:1,11,14,1959:4,7,13,18 58:21 89:3 153:6 80:20 127:23 129:2,3 protects 59:19 60:2,3 61:5,18 62:1,5 prevented product 49:22,23 63:5,12 64:7 66:3,4,10,12 94:10,15 95:18,22 11:5 17:21 19:9 22:5 79:14 provide 66:19 67:4,13,19 68:8 primarily 80:1,12,16 82:18 94:23 154:12 177:8 69:22 70:1,8,10,13,18 71:1 12:21 101:21 114:23 115:3 provided 71:5 72:2 73:9,19 74:2,4 primary 144:14 12:22 35:14,19,21 85:19 75:5 81:19 82:4,21 83:3 154:12 production providing 86:10 89:12 90:19 91:8,11 principally 13:20 36:7 91:22,23 92:17 93:6 96:3 9:13 12:19 15:1 products public 96:16,21 97:23 98:1 102:19 print 17:2,3,12,22,23 18:12 19:7 1:20 5:2 48:8,16,19 49:2 103:10 105:1,15,19 111:14 179:9 19:8,8 20:14,15 22:6 33:13 50:11,14,20 153:11,13 111:19 121:6 122:14,22 prior 66:13 80:20 122:8 153:17 162:10 180:21 123:1 124:4,5 128:10 2:14 38:9,14 39:20 46:8 programs purchase 132:19,20 134:4 135:5,20 159:6 9:15 171:12 74:15 136:7,8 137:8,10,14,18 privilege progress purchaser 138:3,13,13 139:11,13,14 49:12,17,22 67:11 90:15 141:10,16 142:5 143:14 privy project purifying 144:10,18 145:2 147:21 22:17 112:2 154:15 80:8 149:19 150:3 151:5,18 proactive prompt purpose 153:4,5 156:7 157:5,16 121:21 157:19 165:11 10:1397:15 158:4,7,14,15,18 159:3,11 probable promptly pursuant 159:18,23 160:20 169:14 176:12 165:4 5:4 169:16 172:4,19,21 173:1,2 probably properly pursuing 173:9,10 174:1,4,5 175:9 26:9 35:19 47:15 49:10 82:9 152:13 176:16 178:3,5,6 66:17 80:4,9 94:19 104:12 properties put questioning 108:3 109:17 112:16 114:6 11:6 32:2 75:14 150:5 34:20 49:8 62:21 81:5 21:12 28:9 169:22 118:5,16 155:20 156:2,4 property 94:23 101:5 106:12 132:3 questions problem 19:1531:1,1,2 32:1 40:3 162:15 167:3,5 2:10,11 25:5,17,18,21 20:10 85:13 87:11 98:4 41:9,10 42:23 63:15,16,17 putting 27:20,23 38:23 51:23 89:14 105:23 110:17 118:14 67:9 73:16,23 74:13,14,15 33:6,10,16 44:4 52:16 89:1696:11,19 111:9,12,22 132:15 157:12 174:21 75:1,2,3 76:5 77:6,10 78:10 57:10 59:1,16 82:1 134:19 128:7 137:16 149:17 175:12 78:11,1379:1,5 83:11,23 144:7,23 147:13,18 175:13 179:8 problems 139:2 procedure 5:5 84:4 85:8,18 86:15,21 87:1 q 87:6,10,12,13 88:13,21 89:1,6,15,19,21 90:1,5,6,10 90:12,14,21,23 91:2,14,16 qualification 70:10,19 quickly 89:3 143:3 quite 28:10 66:12 81:12 120:23 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032742 [quote - requested] quote reasons regardless remediation 25:21___________________ 76:10 100:23 65:19 98:1 110:21,23 111:4 116:5 r recall regional 124:14 149:23 153:21 rain 102:7 103:11,14 rainfall 102:10,11,14 104:8 raised 31:11,12 rambling 137:17 ran 40:23 53:12 70:4 103:12 range 79:23 reached 159:8 170:9 reacquired 98:13 100:14 106:1 reacted 68:18 read 5:17 6:4,6,11 9:20 10:2,3,4 13:2 26:17 29:5 37:14 38:17 39:9 59:20,21 123:15 129:16 130:23 132:10 133:23 134:2,5,12 135:11 138:10 139:7,7,12,14,15,17 139:18,22 140:4,8 141:13 142:2,11,18 147:14 148:4 149:1,3 152:2 164:9,10 165:2 172:8 180:5 readily 101:9 reading 2:2 11:13 13:1895:8 133:20 139:4,5,12,16,19 141:6 142:12 148:11,13 reads 20:1821:11 real 118:8 realize 160:15 really 79:11,21 84:15 107:23 111:7 127:20 153:5 158:17 158:18 169:22 172:6,9 reason 18:14,20 21:2,4 22:7,11,12 22:18 41:13 74:23 100:19 126:13 133:6 137:1,5 142:1 148:17 181:2 reasonably 134:10 148:8 12:14,15,1736:647:17 50:18 54:20 55:19,23 56:22 57:7,15,16,22 58:2,5 74:9 77:12,13 78:12 84:5,8 87:8 87:17 93:21 99:17 118:19 156:15,17 166:2,3 168:11 169:11,15,20 170:5,6 received 77:20 78:14 127:14 146:17 recess 53:18 98:10 157:10 recklessly 122:9 reclaiming 89:6 recollect 107:22 110:13 recollecting 102:3 recollection 47:6 77:20 78:16 85:17 101:19 106:10,13 119:18 156:3 recommendation 114:22 record 6:15 19:13 27:12,15 28:2,6 30:10 45:5 59:21 134:22 138:2 139:15 142:19 148:12 149:7,8,17 records 13:1 84:19 94:14 95:20,21 145:5 rectify 120:21 121:3,8,12,16 122:15 123:3,5,22 124:1 rectifying 122:3 reduced 179:9 references 162:11 referring 23:8,10 29:17 39:14,16 41:18 106:21 reflect 134:22 refresh 168:13 regard 104:7 regarding 9:16 13:21 21:731:9 107:12 regular 152:16 regulations 9:16,18 31:7 110:20 171:13 regulators 121:21 regulatory 16:1367:23 116:19 rejected 168:2,19 relate 79:20 142:18 177:23 related 36:1 40:13 52:13 53:3 69:7 71:11 75:19 76:2 90:5 92:11 140:17 156:11 159:14 162:17 165:21 168:8 relating 2:5 16:16 25:19 28:18 34:9 34:14 36:8,10,11 37:3 65:1766:7 69:18 114:11 161:6 relations 169:6 relationship 162:9 relay 107:1 release 61:2,13 78:2 released 45:13,19 60:17,21 releases 171:18 relevant 145:5 relied 155:14 rely 154:19 155:7 177:20 relying 12:4 remain 60:13 remaining 79:14 remedial 133:17 134:11 148:9 151:8 remediate 116:9,9 158:10 159:14 159:23 161:1,5,10 remedies 159:23 remedy 158:22 159:14 remember 38:22 55:1,13 57:3,13 76:23 77:17 82:14 86:18,18 86:20 100:8 107:6 110:12 112:13 118:11,23 120:22 126:17 155:22 156:1,7 removal 71:16 72:10,23 86:6 124:15 remove 84:23 93:1097:18 111:11 122:14 124:20 removed 72:23 removing 122:16 reoriented 102:15 repeat 27:9 46:9 58:14 59:19 69:23,23 repeating 29:8,18 replace 130:22 131:9 replaced 92:23 130:15 131:3 report 23:14,16,19 108:6 109:13 110:9 reported 108:8,11 109:12 reporter 5:1,16 55:19 56:2,20 57:8,9 58:12,20 reporters 55:4,8,12 56:13 reporter's 4:4 reporting 52:9 reports 23:5,8 113:21 represent 24:5 129:1 represents 179:10 requested 59:21 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032743 [require - sells] require restate risk says 129:11 132:4 33:8 136:9 54:9 62:15 123:3,5 125:5 required result river 130:19 133:20 134:7 14:20 119:18,20 120:7 165:22,22 166:8,18 179:16 49:3,9 53:20 55:15 65:1,11 140:15 144:16,17 146:4 126:7 132:21 135:14 171:1 results 147:13,19 150:1 151:20 162:5,18 requirement 75:10 robert 165:2 168:15 47:7 171:6 retake 107:4 109:20,22,23 110:1,3 scenario requirements 117:23 110:5,6 115:4,9,14,18,19 122:4 167:12 48:9 129:10 retired role scenarios research 126:18 31:4 32:6 110:16,18 114:10 141:11 27:1 37:9,15 review 132:4,14 133:22 134:18,21 school reservation 36:19,21 42:15,17 145:5 135:15 139:1,21 149:21 8:7 9:3 104:16,17 168:13 154:9,10,12 science residual reviewed ronnie 51:20,22 66:14,15 81:12 80:10,11 36:23 37:21 40:12,13 43:11 107:14,17 101:19 171:5 178:6 resistant 57:5 78:3 room scientific 11:10 revision 134:23 137:22 9:20 22:17 23:2,21 24:14 resolution 131:10 roughly 26:16,18,19,23 27:3,5,10 72:10 133:23 139:2,22 revisions 15:12 27:1428:17,1930:1951:6 resolve 120:16 row 51:15,17 52:9 65:8 170:3 134:10 148:8 165:13 rid 137:17 171:4 172:22 174:5 resolved 90:12 rule scientist 72:6,8 75:23 right 5:4 51:21 respect 7:22 15:5,8 16:6,19 19:11 rules scientists 112:1 114:17 138:17 151:9 21:4 26:9 28:15 30:6 31:19 2:5 5:5 52:1,3 168:9 34:14 37:11 38:7,18 39:2 running scope respective 42:9 43:1 45:9,10,15 46:1,2 66:21 104:21 109:4 136:21 167:22 1:16 162:8 46:6 48:13,1552:1,11,15 138:17 screaming respond 52:20,21 55:15 59:2 64:1 runoff 137:22 138:1 31:9 32:14 65:12 68:8,16 69:5,13 102:21 103:1,7 104:9,19 second responded 143:11 71:19 72:22 77:4 84:12 85:3,22 86:12,13,14 88:5 s 130:8 133:16 136:14,17 secondary responding 146:22 response 100:3 124:8 responsibilities 30:22 31:20 41:6 111:4 165:7 responsibility 15:18 31:22 52:8 54:13 55:5,21 56:14 59:7 60:2 66:21 108:14 111:23 112:21 117:12 126:1,4 132:17 134:8,12 135:3,6 136:10 139:1 144:6,7,12,19 144:22 148:10 151:14,22 162:17 164:20,22 166:20 responsible 33:6,10,15 49:2 50:12,22 51:7,13 52:16 53:9 57:10 59:1,1562:21 81:1482:11 113:1 122:17 134:19 135:16 136:21 150:11,13 167:18 171:23 173:5,21 174:11,16 175:5,6 177:22 89:15 90:7 91:13 92:2 93:19 96:10 97:1 99:13 100:5 101:13 102:10 103:23 105:22 108:1 109:7 111:5 112:13,21 114:14 118:2 121:15,22 124:21 125:22 126:9 127:11,16 128:11,12,15 129:7,20 130:14,19 131:2,4,6,12 132:22 133:12,15,21 134:15 135:7,12 136:18,22 137:7 138:8,18,23 140:9,13 142:9,13 143:7,23 144:5 146:2,5 147:13 148:10,13 148:21 149:1,23 155:7 160:23 161:2 164:12 165:14 166:10 167:7,10,11 168:18,20 169:8,10 170:1 170:18,21 172:13 175:20 176:6 177:2,12 rights 162:8 165:7 rise 68:6 1202 safety 11:7,9 31:6 100:23 126:9 127:14 130:22 sample 7311 sanders 1:19 5:1 179:21 satisfactorily 75:23 saw 71:11 83:22 114:19 saying 19:1 20:2 24:12,19 29:23 51:13 54:9,20,21 55:1 56 21 571 7 8 17 22 22 58:2,5,18 59:4,6,14 61:11 79:15 86:7 87:15 88:15 91:4 94:21,22 95:19 108:23 112:12 122:12 123:2 13110 140 23 146 8 21 148:17 149:13 150:15,18 151:2,6,12 153:5 160:16 164:19 165:12 174:2,4,23 9:19 section 132:9 138:10 sediment 65:1,14 72:23 105:8 160:4 sediments 48:2 65:3,11,1471:17 72:11 105:12 seeing 97:10 158:8 seek 133:22 139:21 seen 35:8 40:14,14 46:3 47:10 60:11 62:7 73:10 84:8,9,12 119:4 self 120:3 sell 90:6,10,14,21 91:1,4,5,16 91:23 sells 64:12 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032744 [sense - spirit] sense significantly slope sort 68:3 88:9 100:4 126:12 11:7 143:1 84:7 102:4 67:22,22 83:17,19 119:19 172:11,16,19 173:3,11,20 simple sloped 123:1 140:18 174:3,5 175:3,13,16 177:21 18:3 20:6 23:1 44:6 91:23 103:19 source 178:5 175:1 sloping 12:23 42:19 47:12 59:23 sent simply 84:6 60:15 61:7,7 62:15,20 63:4 14:8 130:17 58:9 62:17 122:14 slow 63:9 147:6 155:20 157:18 sentence single 141:3 173:14 176:12,22 58:9 129:23 130:8 134:5 60:15 62:20 63:8 141:23 small sources 140:3,8,15 141:4 148:14 147:5 161:5 103:18 14:1260:1862:11,1863:3 149:4,5 151:20 sir smith 63:14 144:15 145:10 158:1 separate 6:157:7 16:15 17:6 21:19 107:14,16 173:13 177:3 123:13 32:20 34:17 35:2 38:18 snow southtrust separating 39:10 40:22 46:10 50:3 33:2,6,10,16,18,20 34:9,13 1:21 3:7 5:8 97:9 56:12 60:23 65:10 66:3 34:16,20 35:4 37:3,16 speak September 69:5 75:12 86:7 88:10 39:11 40:4 42:14 43:4 44:5 40:1985:23 111:19 121:1 1:23 5:7 180:8 92:22 94:10 102:11 103:5 44:12,15,21 45:14,19 46:6 123:8 140:18 152:12 157:7 seriously 121:9 122:11 123:4 134:5 46:12,17 47:19 48:2 60:10 speaking 174:13 134:15 135:14 136:15 60:15,17,21 61:2,8,13,21 85:2,4 152:11 served 139:15 141:5,21 147:7,14 62:2,9,11,21 63:9,14,18 speaks 148:2 150:8 152:5 157:22 161:4 64:20 69:12,15,18 70:3,6 27:15 121:7,20 122:18,22 set 161:15,19 165:9 169:16 71:4,11,13,22 72:4 73:1,11 135:3,3 136:7 139:11 120:4,5 124:10 171:21 175:22 176:6,23 74:10 75:15,22 102:17,20 148:15,19 150:3 162:20 sewer sit 102:22 103:2,8,16,21,22,23 165:1 41:1842:8,11,1244:4,4 18:11 116:11 138:4 169:2 104:2,7,10,20,21 105:13 special sewered site 124:2 134:19 135:17 144:8 14:3 42:23 43:3 82:18 15:10,12 16:21 17:8,14 144:20 154:17 156:21 specific sewering 18:13 19:6 20:15 21:22 157:13 158:11,23 159:14 15:20 27:1 34:10,12 35:5 41:17,20 42:2,13 44:2 32:23 33:14 39:11 40:19 161:6 172:14 175:23 176:5 39:13 40:9,13 43:16 55:23 82:14 45:15 66:8 78:21,21,22 176:6,13 57:3 59:7 63:13 73:17,18 sewers 81:6,8 83:10 90:3,16 93:14 soil 75:7 83:4 84:14 87:8 42:5 94:2,5,6 95:4,11 97:18,20 82:10 105:4,9 111:19,21 124:13 127:8 shakes 99:11,16,20 103:12 104:12 soils 130:11 177:7 131:22 104:18 111:11 114:11,18 65:3 100:1 105:12 specifically shape 116:5 125:1 145:3 148:16 sole 43:15 47:5 79:12,21 132:21 35:15 153:21 149:14 151:21 153:18 97:14 specifics sheet 154:5 155:16 167:14,18 solely 75:10 118:23 120:22 170:6 4:6 sites 117:20 speculate shelter 108:17,17 112:4 121:2,23 solid 43:18 168:23 170:8 1:9 133:21 134:8,11 139:20 9:15 speculation short 148:9,19 149:19 solitaire 80:5 90:9,23 141:15 145:7 54:21 94:23 172:23 sitting 62:20 157:5 170:8 show 16:15 17:7 36:6 39:8,22 solutia speculative 46:2 122:23 132:22 164:3 50:21 60:14 62:19 63:8 111:5,6 116:1 123:13 91:11 showed 73:6 103:5 138:6 147:7 124:11 speculatively 133:9 135:12 161:4 solutia's 123:9 shows situation 123:12 spend 23:14 168:12 131:17 150:19 somebody 90:3 sign situations 42:5 54:21 112:9 116:14 spending 5:17 6:4,6,11 110:19 120:14 160:17 157:19,20 signature six someday spent 2:2 180:1 22:1 22:3 36:14 90:2 174:6 significant size soon spills 16:21 23:22 103:14 104:8 92:8 134:10 148:8 149:22 15:23 115:2 slanted sorry spirit 83:19 100:7 164:7,9 129:13 130:1,10 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032745 [split - talking] split 50:8 spoke 82:13 132:23 spoken 55:4 spring 102:2 St 1:1 115:11,15,16 116:2 155:1 stable 11:14 staff 53:14 112:10 stand 137:2 standards 81:23 91:19 standing 135:1 standpoint 90:4 95:5 118:13 121:20 154:15 171:7 stands 54:10 start 53:1 started 148:14 starts 140:15 state 1:20 5:2 6:14 34:19 61:6 179:3 stated 27:12 statement 30:12,14 32:2 35:6 37:5 39:12,21 56:4,19,22,23 57:2 58:11,19,20,20,23 59:10 75:17 87:17 101:3 111:12 153:9 165:12 172:10 states 64:1,5,12 stating 62:17 stenotype 179:8 step 80:7 108:2,3 steps 80:1 106:20 109:4 143:2 152:2 158:10,22 stilled subsequent 79:16 77:19 78:5 79:4 112:15 stipulated 131:9 165:16 1:152:1,8 subsequently stipulation 76:9 78:10 5:5 substance stipulations 76:5,7,19 78:17 83:10,14 5:16 83:18 84:10 85:9,14 88:23 stop 89:8,11 98:16 99:14 102:1 10:6 26:5 27:22,22 54:21 102:4 108:8 109:1,3 96:15 137:18 substances stopped 85:1 11:3 13:1369:1 116:8 substation storage 78:23 167:3 17:21 substations stored 78:23 99:10 16:22 17:7 18:2,10 19:14 sucking 19:20 20:15 21:13 22:4,10 160:4 22:13 30:23 92:15 94:17 sue storm 87:14 104:8 105:6,8,12 155:12 sued 156:14 146:12 147:11,12 151:1 straight 166:8 44:5 suggest strategy 39:9 40:1 141:12 166:14 suggests streams 26:17 27:3 42:22 83:7 suing street 152:10 1:21 3:8,14 5:8 suite strikes 3:15 58:21 summaries stuck 29:4 148:23 summarize studied 98:18 161:20 40:10 summarizes studies 161:22 30:5 39:23 84:15 summed study 39:20,21 9:5 14:15 29:3 34:8,10,15 superfund 104:13 114:6 154:5 156:23 148:22 149:14 174:5,7,10,18,19 superfundfund studying 148:16 34:13 superintendent stuff 13:8 125:21 13:22 65:12 79:3 85:7 86:8 supervised 98:9 175:17,19 13:9 stupid supervision 25:21,23 26:3,4,8 179:9 subject supplied 124:16 165:6 115:5 subjective support 121:19 130:20 subscribed suppose 180:15 12:7 36:1 158:7 supposed 112:8 149:20,21 sure 12:7 30:22 31:23 41:7 49:18 55:16 65:6,9 74:11 80:19 82:12 86:12 105:11 108:21,22 109:14,16 112:17 115:4 127:5 136:6 139:6 142:8 160:2 166:6,7 170:2 surface 83:19 84:1 99:15 156:5,5 surprised 54:19 56:10 surrounding 16:21 74:17 152:23 suspect 154:18 suspecting 94:19 suspicion 156:1 swann 10:20,22 13:1,3,19 14:1 swapped 87:10 swear 119:12 swears 54:10 sworn 5:14 35:15 180:15 system 49:3,9 53:21 55:15,15 56:15 59:16 60:1 65:11 146:11,13 147:7,13,19 150:6 151:15 172:17 175:6 175:23 177:6 systems 65:1 t 119 29 6 20 30 1 5318 94:3 98:10 106:19,20 157:10 158:10 166:18 1797 1808 talk 28 5 32'19 70'22 77 1 116:12 136:12 143:17 1626 talked 32:9 36:14,17 48:15 54:11 55:14 95:21 124:14 142:16 143:15 150:5 158:5 171:3 talking 6:2 10:23 11:2 39:14 45:6 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032746 [talking - treated] talking (cont.) testifying thoroughly today (cont.) 45:10,12 55:9,20 70:19 55:18 57:6 71:1 75:13 147:7 161:4 84:2 85:4,6 86:12 98:12 testimony thought today's 101:12 110:13 112:1 113:2 21:6,11 23:12 28:6 35:15 39:7 43:21 101:23 135:21 81:23 91:19,20 117:8 128:2 133:4 137:3 35:16,17,17 36:7,11,22 146:1 told 141:22,22 167:8 174:17 37:23 38:9,14 39:20 46:8 thoughts 12:2,3 29:22 42:21 43:11 talks 54:7,19 56:8,8 69:19 83:11 89:6 45:3 46:14,18 47:2,4,4,5,6 162:7,8,10,11 84:21 92:17 95:9 104:4 threat 47:11 53:19 54:1,14 56:3 team 180:8 87:8 56:13 57:9 61:20 62:8 109:15 112:9 113:11 testing threatened 64:1765:2,4 71:11,12,18 116:16 117:16 87:5 72:9,12 73:2,3,5 74:9 75:8 technical thank three 77:17 78:19 83:12 101:3,19 13:8,10 14:20 52:5,12,13 150:8 178:7 18:18 117:3 120:20 127:6 138:5 53:14 59:9 107:10 116:19 theory throwing 140:12 143:6 148:23 153:8 126:12 130:12 166:23 42:9 tolerated technician thereto tie 82:2 125:14 2:14 179:8 57:19 top technology thick time 48:3 106:12 123:21 147:8 116:18 128:23 2:12,13 7:10,13,16 11:4 topic tell thing 13:7 15:15,22 16:1,3,4,14 28:5,7 29:16 96:12,17 98:2 9:12 12:11 18:1520:11 32:1463:1584:16 117:14 16:16 24:9 31:8,8 32:22 total 34:4 39:22 49:7 50:10 121:22 124:19,21 144:12 33:22,23 34:1,2,5,7,16,22 80:5 118:4 51:11 58:17 60:8 61:22 things 35:1 36:14 38:1 40:20,22 totally 62:10 63:8 72:22 76:3 5:23 11:7 14:8,23 19:5 25:1 41:1,8 44:3,14 45:14,20 74:18 160:2 79:19 88:23 94:22 100:10 29:4 31:6,12,13,15 32:8 46:11 47:7,21,22 52:18 touch 108:18 133:20 134:15,16 35:20,21 40:16 41:21 45:6 55:19 61:12,19 62:3,12,23 76:13 142:16 145:22 149:15 46:19 50:6 52:13 78:5 90:2 63:1,2,7 66:11,14,1667:2 tower 152:22 153:23 154:1 94:18 98:6,14 117:16 67:11,16 68:5,10,11 69:16 1:21 3:7 5:8 155:15 156:13 161:4,15 119:12 120:19 123:22 69:19 70:3 71:2,16,23 town 168:6 169:3 175:1 177:2,21 152:20 155:12 157:21 73:22 75:16 76:8 78:12 107:11 telling 161:23 170:14 175:12 81:11,13 82:1284:13,13 toxicity 29:19 51:9,14 54:15 57:7 think 86:4,8,23 88:5 92:7,13 53:6 172:6 91:6,16 92:1 112:7 130:8 13:8 14:17 16:7 17:6 20:3 95:13 97:11 99:13 100:18 toxicologist 135:8 142:1 149:12 177:20 26:1,2 30:17 49:10 57:13 101:20 106:16 107:13,16 25:2 tells 59:3 63:22 67:14 92:7,18 108:21 109:16,19 111:1 trade 88:10 129:9 172:16 92:20 94:7 100:5 101:18 115:22 117:14 119:17 9:20 10:1,3,4 29:5 80:21 tense 102:6,20 103:17,23 104:5 120:11,12 127:7 137:8 training 167:9,10 105:19 106:15 111:6 138:14,14 140:3,7,11,17 59:17 169:19 term 112:23 115:19 116:3,4 142:15 145:19 146:6,17 transactions 23:22 24:8 79:18 121:19 119:3 120:10,15 121:2,20 147:11 152:11 158:16,16 118:21 153:11 171:15 122:12 123:7 124:14 125:6 158:21 159:13 160:6 161:2 transcript terms 130:10 136:10 140:23 161:8,23 165:16 166:1,16 179:11 180:6,7 14:6 37:8 88:15 93:13 94:5 142:21 144:11,16,17,18,18 167:13,15 169:8 170:11,14 transfer 110:10,20 114:7 116:17 145:8 151:12,18 156:19 170:23 171:1 176:21 78:13 86:20 99:6 118:17 127:3 130:10,11 143:3,4 157:19 158:15 165:1 times 162:7 164:21 173:13 166:15 167:21 171:3 18:19 19:17 20:8 22:2 96:6 transferred tested 173:11 174:15 176:2 105:10 67:12 78:12 86:18 99:5 85:10 177:18 timetable 100:16 126:3 165:6 testified thinking 120:1 transformers 5:14 35:12 38:4,16 46:5 122:10 title 9:16 11:8 152:20 53:23 61:9 176:1 thirteen 13:8 78:11 86:19 165:17 transpired testifies 28:11 today 155:19 56:2 thirty 16:15 17:7 18:11 33:18 travel testify 98:8 170:13 174:20,22 36:6,13 39:8,22 50:22 65:11 155:12 20:21 21:3 23:16 24:1 thomas 60:14 62:19 63:8 69:20 treated 38:10,19 146:14 1:4 73:6 91:19 103:5 109:21 82:14 145:17 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032747 [treatment - went] treatment ultimately unwanted 99:8 52:17 117:17 165:13 80:12 trial unable updated 2:13 20:21 21:3 35:12,16 95:14,17 14:9 119:7 35:17 53:23 unaware upside tributaries 71:3 74:15,18 75:20 164:9 103:1 uncertain use tributary 57:6 100:1,19 142:20 167:16 44:12 46:17 103:6,16 104:3 unclear 172:11 104:10 176:5 74:4 useful tried uncontaminated 11:5 60:12 93:1 usual truck undergraduate 5:16 106:11 9:8 usually true underneath 152:19 153:11,12 17:18 18:2,5,7,8,10 19:14 155:4,5 v 27:6 32:2 33:19 40:5 41:11 understand 43:6 71:6,20 83:8 84:22 10:12 13:11,11,17 14:2,16 99:5 103:17 104:22 123:23 17:1521:1227:1937:23 153:19 168:22 175:21 39:17 43:20 49:6 56:12 179:10 180:7 58:16 61:9 64:23 68:8 truth 79:23 80:6 91:3,9 92:8,12 21:18,20,21 52:8 54:15 93:14,14 94:1,2,4,21 95:7 truthful 95:10 98:2 101:18 104:16 71:9 142:7 111:15 114:12 117:19 trying 126:10 138:12 143:18 14:2 17:19 24:23 28:2 36:4 147:20,22 148:21 157:20 117:10 130:11 131:23 166:12 176:3 138:1 150:16 understanding value 86:22 variety 66:13 various 19:7 35:20 vary 129:10 verbally 74:9 verbatim 87:19 verify tsca 171:12 turn 132:8 turned 79:2 twelve 125:1,5 twenty 47:23 48:1 170:18,21 twice 18:5 type 39:13 52:19 98:1 101:20 106:8,9 117:16 types 9:18 10:16 11:11,15,16 14:21 17:22 19:5 23:4,20 24:6,14 26:23 27:2,13 29:9 30:3,7,18 31:7 44:22 48:1 64:2 71:14,15 80:14 82:22 84:21 98:19 132:12 147:9 156:22 159:7 171:5,8 176:20 177:8 unique 139:17 versions 119:7 vice 107:12 view 116:19 visible 108:8 11:6 unit 80:21 140:12,22 176:4 united 64:1,4,12 units 129:10,13 134:7,9 140:16 visibly 83:10 voltage 101:1 vs 1:6,11______________________ 35:21 111:11,23 114:9 140:19 141:20,22 w typically university w.l. 83:6,7___________________ 8:4 124:22 u unknown u.s. 64:2 uh 60:22 82:16 88:3 128:13,16 128:19 129:15 131:1 133:11,14,19 134:6 136:19 136:23 146:7 108:7 unnecessarily 152:1 unquote 25:21 unsure 117:1 wagging 134:23 wait 5:21 85:12 87:9 88:12 waived 2:3 walk 78:20 98:17 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER walking 83:9 134:23 wandering 137:22,23 want 5:17,19 18:15 19:2,13 21:12,15,16,18,20 24:1 26:2 30:10 36:5,16 38:23 39:17,22 54:20 56:8,9,12 57:18 58:14,16 59:22 67:5 67:5 68:2,9 70:16 71:1 74:10 75:18 77:12 81:21 87:12 88:14 90:8,9 98:3 104:14 111:19 114:23 116:7,11 117:5 122:6,8 124:12 133:8 134:3 139:18 143:20 145:16 162:16 164:20 165:3 wanted 75:12 76:16 86:12 90:11 91:4,5 120:18 137:6 139:17 166:5,5,6 170:10 wanting 162:5 wants 128:5 waste 9:15 15:18,23 16:2 44:8,11 44:19 45:1,18,22 46:1,5,11 46:15,16,18,21 47:3 79:6 82:14 83:1,5 99:8 108:16 110:21 121:23 133:12,13 133:16 135:13 176:3 wastes 84:15,17 134:9 watch 139:18 water 41:22,23,23 46:1,11,21 47:3 65:11,1282:1483:1,6 99:8 102:7 103:11 104:8,19 104:21 105:6,8,12 154:17 155:12 156:1,14 175:6 waters 44:9,11,1945:1,18,22 46:5 46:15,16,19 176:4 week 26:11 123:18 164:4 165:10 weigh 97:6 weighing 95:23 97:5 went 44:4,5,12 85:8 92:22 102:11,22 105:7,12 108:15 110:7 117:2 161:11 HARTOLDMON0032748 [west - zero] west worldwide 67:9 68:15,19,22 69:9 76:2 129:11 133:9 85:2,21 86:6 91:15 92:15 worry 95:14 104:19 114:2 142:20 149:16 153:21 155:9 156:11,14 worse we've 98:4 5:18 78:7 95:21 132:8 worth whatsoever 89:21 35:15 36:23 100:20 write white 49:6 3:12 writing wholesale 164:12,15 168:2 written widely 165:11,16 60:4 wrong william 39:22 41:4 97:21 134:15 1:8,185:10,136:16 164:10 willing wrote 60:23 165:3,4 173:12 162:13 164:5 176:19 y wind 103:16 witness 2:3 5:106:1,9 25:6,10,12 25:13,15,16 27:23 28:1 54:7 71:8 96:10 109:23 115:15,17 117:9 131:22 135:1 138:3 141:16 144:10 145:2 157:16 158:14 172:4 172:21 174:20 176:16 179:11 180:1,12 word 31:1640:17 135:2,5 136:13 139:17,18 141:23 words 48:21 87:14 124:9,11 130:4 131:19 141:7,13 142:2 167:17 work 12:6 37:15 40:14 53:2 92:9 98:21,22 99:12,16 113:19 114:23 115:3 154:4,20 155:3 159:6,8,10 165:3,12 171:11 worked 7:8 12:18 52:5 101:1 112:10 114:13 154:23 y'all 7:1 13:22 36:17 84:22 85:7 85:8,10,12 87:10 88:12 92:2 93:16 98:13 100:14 109:1 118:14 119:9 132:14 143:21 148:2,9 149:19 155:3,17 166:10,23 168:8 174:11 yeah 15:21 51:14 53:17 74:12,14 107:8 110:5 115:17 116:3 125:9 128:1 137:3,15,21 148:2 year 11:4 15:12 26:7 43:5 61:1 118:22 136:20 145:14,20 years 13:14 28:11 47:23 48:1 57:2 77:16 78:22 85:5 119:8 169:2,3 170:13,18,19 170:19,20,21 174:20,22 175:4 yep 170:22 yesterday 36:15 155:4,5 z working zero 52:1,3 67:1069:2 117:14 172:7 121:21 125:11 165:23 works 13:6,7 world 85:7 120:20 Defer, William L. (fmr Monsanto employee) in DYER HARTOLDMON0032749