Document 65Y2ELzJGZ6nDb9REyybrKEjo
! IN THE CIRCUIT COURT
2 TWENTIETH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT OP ILLINOIS ST. CLAIR COUNTY
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PRANCES E. KEMNER, et al.,
4 Plaintiffs,
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vs.
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MONSANTO COMPANY, et al.,
NO. 80-L-970
7 Defendants. 8 Before the HON. RICHARD P. OOLDENHERSH, Judge
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TRANSCRIPT OP TRIAL PROCEEDINGS
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March 13, 1984
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APPEARANCES:
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MR. REX CARR MR. JEROME SEIGFREID
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On Behalf of the Plaintiffs MR. KENNETH R. HEINEMAN
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MR. JOHN R. MUSGRAVE 20 On Behalf of Defendant Monsanto
MR. ALBERT SCHOENBECK 21 MR. STEPHEN M. SCHOENBECK
On Behalf of Defendant Norfolk and Western
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SANDRA ROE 2 4 Official Court Reporter
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:3V. Motions' in Chambers
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'4 j Deposition of Ron Crunkilton
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6 Deprjge Rush''.,
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L. direct Examination / ,
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, 'Cross Examination by rMr 0 Heineman'.
'8' , ;' r Cross Examination by' Mr0 Schoenbeck ,
95 111* 152
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Defendant
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.BE, It REMEMBERED' AND CERTIFIED, there heretofore,'"on >-
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to^wit :/ March. 1-3, 1984, being one .of .the regular^ judicial '
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;days .of; thie Court, the matter as hereinbefore set forth came
4 bh for hearing .before `the ;K0N. RICHARD P GQLDENHERSH\ Circuit
5'r` Judge In*and for the.Twentieth Judicial,Circuit, State of
6 "i .IllinoisU in} Courtroomi'/jill{' St;.[ Clair County Building,.
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Belleville, St. Clair County, Illinois, and the.following was
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(The followinjg proceedings' were had in^ohambers,
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with.Court and counsel present and out .of.the presence
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. and -hearing of .the Jury:) v;
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14 - \ THE COURT: 0n`Crunkilton's deposition, we stopped at.
15 page 8o,
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16 : MR... STEPHEN SCHOENBECKs., On page 81, lt*8 not really *.
17 an objection, hut I think, in my .question at line 7, it's,. '
18 now, sir, there had. been', / I1believe* I had .an "ifw in there, ^
19 if there,had been any7contamination. " - ]
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read. ..Okay, bn page 83, line 19-^ .oh, thatfs just a question.
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I guess-19, k20 and 21. On page 83,/ line 12,. are you adopting* ;
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,) ' MR. CARR: .- No, Your Honor. . v At v *:> *r-V--' *1.
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. ' THE COURT: `So^lines 12 -and 13. are out. 84,, line 5* areypu
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adopting that-objection?,
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3 'MR.-'CARR:^, No, *YourvJKonor.Vi 7- .
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- ,, .THE vCOURT:v Okay, 5ahd ^are: ;out. ' ' '-
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5 . m X lSTPHe S-*SCHOETOECK'jfi ;\wold think f arid 8 should ' ,,
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THE COURT: Yeah, 8 shouldn'tJtbe iri also, you're right;
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85, line 20,'areyou adopting that'objection.?-
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MR.1"CARR| -No, Your Honor 7 . -..' '
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. . THE'COURT: "20 and 21 are out.
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''MR. CARR: Judge,; he didn't-answer the.question on line
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13 .THE COURT: Yesy he asks'the, other question on 23, right.
14 ' MR. STEPHEN SCHOENBECK: . Your Honor,1the first words in
BAYONNE, N.J. 07002 , FORM IL'24 B
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,the line o f -23 I think :shpuld. be out because I strike the start;
16 . of my question, ^maybe,' just "start with "can" at the end o f 5line .
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18' THE; COURT:, Right, ,exactly> :So it will read, can you'tell us.;
19 * .86,; line 5. : We don't ned Kersting in. again, .do we? And.
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;page 91", lin 2, are'you adopting that objection? :v
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,MR. CARR: - No, -Judge,-.
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. TH COURT: Okay; And 96, line, 12. .Seems to me that,,this
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* t ^whole thing-** how about striking everything betwen. 8 ,hd 22,7 24:
- * MR.'-1'CARR8' j- haven't; read it yet* Judge,
still'laughink./
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2; j -,THE- COURTv*. All right; /Page: 104:-- *I 'm sorry ./ Mr.
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Carr, do you'have any objections .between 80 and. 1,00? .
4' V MR. -CARR: No;
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5" `, THE COURT: D you have hy objections?
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6/. / , ,.-MR.;MtJSGRJVVE:^ None/ Your- 'Honor,;; ^^
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THE.COURT: D you!have any objections between 80
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9 \ \MR. STEPHEN SCHOENBECK: Yes , I think a icorrectlon at
10 page 87 v line 12, X think th eword toxic should ,be toxin j
11 ' put the "n";on the end of ;it>
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12 ! . THE. COURT: Okay.;
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13 , MR. STEPHEN SCHOENBECK:' The.other thing was at page 97,
14 ji bottom of196 and.oyer onto ,97a thereTs,a lot of back and
15' rforth about whether. he' was able to find records .and he !11, - v'(
16have to lobk around the building and .stuff like .that * rl don't '
7 .know, that that really rie'ds' t be read. -, - ^ v. ,:
18 TH COURT: Anybody.object to taking it out?'
19 /' ,MR':;CARR: NoV
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20 Am';F.. .THHE COURT: Okay, so from, line .4 .to .the,bottom*of the,
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page on^96, between 1 and 8'.on..page 97'I BUss: that's all
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MR. MUS0IWVE:; Hw:-fr;dwn. on 97? , ./
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linei 7,:.I ihlnk.,:t h a i ^ a t e ;ls wrong./;it's Inconsistent
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\5`1 '.- THE COURT: What'May. 2?.
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MH. OTtoRAVEi- ^Yes-, isn'-t it'^piil/2^thif
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41. j ;THEC0URT:; Let 'schange'it to April). Pine; Okay. / /
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Nothing else between 80/and./100. / -Page 104, line 8 .
13 : MR. STEPHEN'SCHOENBECK: I 'm sorry, Judge, page 99* therer
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as'is indicated from lower"down,ir,the page and'also in the /
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17. THE COURT: The OCP? `1 ` ' ;/ ;
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M R / STEPHEN SCHOENBECK:- Right. ^ It!s incorrect according'
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21 T .' ; MR. STEPHER SCHOENBEIjK:. That?s'correct; ':/ .
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;THE COURT: Anybody object to chariging .it to .28? j MR. CARR:, if that's what's 'in the memo.
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MR. STEPHEN SCHOENBECK: `/That is'what is in the/memo and,
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' ":-MR. CARE: `Let*s correct It then.
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THE COUIJT! -Pinnee;f,,VOkay*^ Page 104 line18_.? .Thetss*
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'.MR. MUSGRAVE:-..Withdraw .l't.i;:'<-x .' ,
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* s;, MR.' MUSGRAVE: Withdraw'that .:'.
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THE COURT: 'All right ; ,10 arid 11, are,-out; ,Page 107, ' ; ,
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-MR.--MUSGRAVE: Withdraw It r,>
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14 \ , :THE COURT: ''R i g h t "Ar you -withdrawing thatV
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BAYONNE.' .J.- 07002 FORM IL 24B
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?THE COURT: '2 is: out, 25 also.V^
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MR. -MUSGRAVE: ;Yes'-
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' 19? ',same basis .'."On page .108,line 18,: Theiss-has 'a.njobjection..-.
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''What..are yo.u doing 'with that?'
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1 THE COURT: Line 6. 2 MR. MUSGRAVE: I'll withdraw it.
3 THE COURT: All right. 6 is out. And line 22, another
4 objection?
5 MR. MUSGRAVE: Withdraw it.
6 MR. STEPHEN SCHOENBECK: Your Honor, we would preserve
7 the objection as calling for hearsay, it relates to an entirely
8 different incident and strictly hearsay as to what was in the
9 article about what was some other problem with dioxin in the
10 Missouri area.
11 THE COURT: Overruled. I don't think so. I think
12 it's proper. Page 110, line 10. That's Theiss* also. Are 13 you adopting that? 14 MR. MUSGRAVE: We'll withdraw it. 15 THE COURT: All right. And lines!9 and 20. 16 MR. CARR: He asks a question on line 23. 17 THE COURT: Okay, so 18 through 20 ought to go out. 18 And I guess the first part of 22. And we'll start with, anyone 19 seen. So 18 through 22 are out. -And the comment.
20 Page 113, line 13, that's Mr. Seigfreid. I guess 13 through
21 17 ought to go, through 18, ought to go out.
22 MR. MUSGRAVE: , 12 through ,20, put, you say?
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THE COURT:, Well, if the*question is read back, I guess-
24 no, wait asecond. Letts' get rid pf 12 through 20. I think.
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2 MR STEPHEN SCHOENBECK:, Your Honor, at this point I'm
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3 going to move that his answer be stricken as not responsive
4 to the question I asked. .He tells me that my question is not
5 relevant and It's,a non-responsive answer to the,question there
6 THE COURT: The question that starts on ,3.
7 MR. STEPHEN*SCHOENBECK: Yes, sir, the answer on 1 through
8 9 r I would, move to strike .as being non-responsive.
9 THE,COURT: Okay. Let.me read,itfagain.
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10 MR. MUSGRAVEs Monsanto will join in the objection.
M THE COURT: No. I disagree because he's talking about.
12 something.that he thinks is part of his opinion and is 13 preliminary ,to his reaching an opinin1on two possibilities. 14 I think it's responsive/ I would disagree with both of you
PENCAD CO./ BATONNE.- N.J. 07001. 'FORM It 24 0
! 15 and keep it in. And then you clarify It on the question on ,
* 16/ what you want answered'and he answers that. But I think what
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17 he's talking about is partof a component part of his determination
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of possibilities, and I don't think it's non^respphsive. I .don1t have anything else up.to theend. Anybody,
20 have any;objections between100 and whatever the last page cof
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21 this deposition is, 116? Mr. Carr, do you have any objections?
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22 - MR. CARR:! / i'll; object to the last, beginning on line
23 15 on page 115,` Your*; Honor/'la^
the end"of the
deposition.
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1 THE COURT: "-On 115 where?
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2 MR. CARR: Beginning of line 15, the re-direct
3 examination by Mr. Theiss.
4 THE COURT: Okay. '
11
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5 . MR. CARR: He's prefacing1the question with the fact
6 that Mr. Seigfreid asked him about a June '82 article, so
7 he wrote a June '82 article on contamination and then he goes
8 into an entirely new and additional point of whether or not
L i.
9 the PDA has established an acceptable level of dioxin, has ;
10 nothing to do with the questions that have gone on theretofore*
M It calls for hearsay as to what the PDA has done and it's
12 certainly outside the scope of any cross-examination that
J 1i
13 took place on the part of Mr. Seigfreid. I don't think anybody
14 asked in the entire deposition any questions, about the
15 toxicity of dioxin or-anybody's knowledge. No, he does ask ,
16 about-- I think the"only objection that can really be made on it
17 is hearsaVi when"it .calls*or/whatj;the FDA has established '
18 as an acceptable level';
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19 MR. MUSGRlAAVVE t;'iM"ay >I .respond?
20 THE COURT: .Sure. ,
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21 MR. MUSGRAVE: Your Honor, this whole topic was gone
22 into by Mr, Seigfreid, .1 think if you look at page 109 you see 23
him asking questions about dioxin being carried,by fish and ,
24
the preparatory remarks :talked about this man reading an artic3 t1`
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1 about dioxin and there is testimony in here about his* own
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2 1 studies and articles'he's written about dioxin, including--
3 I'm. trying to find the reference with regardto fish. The whole
4 area was opened up and gone into and hearsay testimony was
5 called upon for this man's opinions, and all this is is cross-
6 examination with regard to that and it's totally proper in
7 light of what's preceded it in the deposition.
8 MR. CARR: Your Honor, I agree, I'll withdraw the
9 objection.
10 THE COURT: Okay. Do you have any, objections between 100
n . and 116?
12 MR. MUSGRAVE:b None, Your Honor.
13 THE COURT: Do you have any?
14 * h ,
MR. STEPHEN SCHOBNBECK: Yes, Your Honor. Page 10 5,
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l i n e s 21 th r o u g h -25; th e w it n e s s ; i s b e in g a sk ed q u e s t io n s t h a t
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16 are repetitious of his testimony from when Mr. Seigfreid
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cross-examined -him earlier,, and I would refer specifically to
18 page 32, 3 3 ^ ' Th man' s'testimony at 105 and 106, line 1 '
19 to IS, he's just asked to repeat what he said earlier in
20 the deposition about observations he made as to the-
21 discoloration of the water, the observation of dead fish and
22 the smell. This is all repetitious from the material on pages
23 and 33.
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MR. MUSGRAVE : Monsanto would join in the objection.
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THE COURT: Do' you have anything to say?
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MR:-. CARR: Your Honor, If my memory serves me right,
3 they challenged his observations and what he saw and, how much
4 of It was his own knowiedge:and went Into what he was able to
5detect and where the fish count took place and Mr. Seigfreid's
6
examination-- 1
/
7
'
THE COURT: You're talking about what, on 32 and 33. The
8
court reporter took 32 and 33-so I don't have It. .So you're
9 saying this is rehabilitation basically?'
10
MR. CARR: Yes, '
11
THE COURT: Okay. I'll overrule the objection.'
12 .
Anything else? 13 ,
,MR. STEPHEN SCHOENBECK: Nothing further, Your Honor.
14 THE COURT: Great. Let's finish up the deposition.
15 We stopped at page
16 r
MR. CARR: if4, Your Honor, at line 7.
17 THE COURT:`-Okay. -
18 (Court convened and the following proceedings
19 .were had, in open court, In the presence and
20
, hearing,of the jury:)
21
THE COURT: Good morning.
>
22
.MR. CARR: JI think'we are ready, Judge.
23 .
THE iCOURT Okay.{ Go. -aheadV-- ` !\ - ; ' .i ` "*i*t ~ ` '
-24 * .
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!* (MrSeigfreld and Mr.'Carp then, continued to
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read the evidence d e p o s i t i o n ^ Ronald'Crunkilton,
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as follows:)/
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3 Q . All right. . Now, let's talk about Plaintiff's Exhibit
4 ,10 and.let's start with the photograph in the upper right-hand
5 corner, excuse me, in the lower right-hand corner marked A
i
6 . for purposes of identification. -
7, Do you see that A on that photograph?,
8 k: Yes.
9 MR, CARR: And, Your Honor for the record that
10
is Plaintiff'8 Exhibit 83 and we have the slide which
11
we'll show up there and I'll pass Exhibit 83 at the
12
same.time. I wonder if the light could be, if we
13 could have a little dimmer on that. We have a dimmer,
14 don't we, Ralph, on that?
,,
15 COURT CLERK: No, these are just off and on.
FORM IL 24'B
16 MR, CARR: Just off and on. Then we better do
17 it this way then. .
- ,-
18 Q And would you tell us what that photograph shows
O 19 Q since it's a 35 millimeter slide?
o
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A , . That. is,,the ditch,north/ooif the tracks that had
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phenol^compouhds-irf* it/,,tHat.was entering Saling Creek.'
. 22
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,'in It?
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.*And- how did ,you know that that had phenol compounds :: \ - ' < f \V^ 1 .7
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Water wasj'sampled and the .analysis showed that, "tlidre \ L.
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1 were compounds present.
2 .Q - And who took those samples?
3 A GH Chemical Company.
4 Q And was that water discolored?
5 A Yes.
6 Q And did it have the same discoloration that you
7 observed of. waters that were contaminated by phenols?
`8 A Yes.
9 Q All right. Now* moving along on that.same row,
10 , *
if you'll put the A photograph back so we don't lose our "base
11 mark or benchmark, take the next photograph and tell us
' 1
12 what that shows.
13 A . That is a olose-upof the confluence of that ditch.
14 MR. CARR: And.'that Plaintiff's Exhibit 84.
15 Q And does that show the draininage of the toxic
16 17 18 19
20 21 22
, 23 "24"
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chemicals into the creek?
A Yes.
Q 'What 'does'that .picture show?
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A It shows the difference in color of water where
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ditch
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was
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contaminated
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enters-the
creek.
. Q. And what. causSd/that.discoloration in your
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opinion?
t, A The phenol compounds..
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.Q .All right. -Take the next photograph and- tell us"'"
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what it shows*
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2 . MR'i'CARR: This is Plaintiff's Exhibit 85-
3 A That is a picture of the ditch upstream from where
i
4: it ,enters Saling Creek.
5 Q And what does that photograph recall to your mind?
6 A A discoloration in the water.
7 Q Do you have an opinion of what caused.that
8 discoloration?
9 A Yes.
t
10 Q . What was that?
11
A Phenol compounds.
12
Q Ali right. Take photograph number 4 from our
13 Plaintiff's Wo. 10 and what does that show?
14 MR. CARR: That is.Plaintiff's Exhibit 86.
15 ,A-t ; That .is another, picture^of the same ditch at a
16
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different point-'that shows discoloration.
17 Q y *And- when you/speak! !of discoloration, are you
18 speaking of discoloration of phenols?
19 A In my opinion.
20 Q All right. ,Now,'let's take thenext photograph,
21 which will be directly under the A photograph, and what
22
does that show?
,
23
MR. CARR: This would be Plaintiff's Exhibit'87*
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A , That shows the/same ditch farther, upstream;In the V
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PENGA0 CO., Tb AYONN E. N.J. 07002
1 City of Sturgeon Itself at one of the road crossings.
2 Q Does It show any of the chemical compounds In
3
view In that photograph?
4
A Yes.
5
Q And was there any discoloration?
6 A Yes.
7
Q And the discoloration was from the phenols In
8 your opinion?
9
A Yes.
10
Q All right. Let's take thenext photograph. What
11
does It show?
12
MR. CARR: And this is Plaintiff's Exhibit 88.
13
A It's the same picture from a different angle as the
14
previous.
15
Q Does it show the same discoloration?
16
A Yes.
17
Q All right. Nowlet's take the next photograph.
18
What does it show?
19
MR. CARR: This is Plaintiff's Exhibit 89*
20
A That's the other side of the road culvert that
21
the other two pictures were taken at.
22
Q Does it show any water, confluence of any type?
23
A Yes.
24
Q Is it discolored?
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` A Yes.
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Q Is that discoloration from the phenols?
A Yes.
,
4
Q When you;say other side of the ditch, what do you
5*
mean?
6
A Well* the ditch runs under a street in Sturgeon
7 in two of the pictures. The first two pictures were taken
8i '
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on one side, of the street and the other two pictures, or
9
one picture was taken on the othr side.
10
Q * -. ;And are! you ^speaking.that two pictures were' taken
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on the east side of the street and two pictures, taken on
12 the west,:side ^bf'the fStreet?^ - .
13 A ` , L r > belive, two ; were taken on the east and one on
14 the west.
-
15
Q . All right. Now, what does the' next photograph
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show?
,. MR. CARR: And that's Plaintiff's Exhibit 90*
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CCNGAO CO.; BAYONNE, N.J,
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A , It's another picture of the ditch as it. runs from sturgeon to Saling Creek.
Q Does, it show any of the discolored water? ,, A It's'not indicated in this picture.. It's not a ' .close-up. Q All right. Was there discolored water at that
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location where the photograph was taken?
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I A Yes.
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2 Q And was that water discolored by the toxic
3 chemicals?
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A I believe s o . . -
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5 Q All right. Nowj let m e 3 Just so we're clear here,
6 we could get mixed up, you started off with A. Will you
7
go across and mark,the next photograph that you have
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reported'on, would,,you);mark it )with my pen a B in some
9
location,,the next one.CU.sOjit is-- You may have to do that
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with pencils Go ahead arid mark all of them, if you will.
11
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All right. How, we've been through .Exhibits A
12
through H. Let's take Exhibit I, and I want you to tell
13 the Court and Jury what that is a picture of.
14 MR. CARR: That's Plaintiff's Exhibit 91.
IS A That is a picture similar to picture H whichr
16 shows, again shows the ditch.
17 Q Does
18 A From
19 Q Was
20
A Yes.
21
Q And
22
chemicals?
23 A Yes.
24 t ? .' - Q
Okay
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. ,/, . MR, C A R R T h a t - s plaintiff s Exhibit 92.1
1 ' A "That 's a! picture of. Saling Greek. * - > \ <; .;
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., 'Q ;'yr,.And what- does it .show- ,v7ith re spect ,to Saling"Creek?- .*
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;A i' Wo, 'it was not;
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'un'>d..'eSrrj!.'s7jat/..a7|n.Jd-i^ng
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Saling
'.Creek?
;V; 'VV:/A-;'; Yes. `
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Downstream; - -1 3'.iVfV'1
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That Is. upstreain. of the confluence of the ditch
- Q''1 'Arid where-would-that be witherelation,to the, '
21
intersection of the> railroad: tracks and the'stream "itself*.
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what direction? - ;
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go. back.
'Saling
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1 intersects the railroad track, does tit not?
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3 Q^ 1 How- the* rallrohd track runs in what direction in
a;
4 Sturgeon;, Missouri?; /; ,i<;/;:
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A
East7'and
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"i/' ' Q And Baling1 Creek runs in what direction where it ,
7 intersects the railroad .track?
8 A North and south.
9 Q ( All right. Let's look at Plaintiff's Exhibit 10J,.
10 at what place is that photograph taken?
11 MR. CARR:' Now, you've got K in the slide
12
projector, Mr. Seigfreid. All right.. 13
A That picture is taken north of the railroad 14
tracks which would be downstream at Saling Creek.
15 Q All right. And what does it show?
16
V
A It shows the site upstream or above where the
i
r ; 17 contaminated ditch enters Saling Creek. J ^
18 Q So your camera, you're standing at the point of
19 the confluence between the stream, Saling Creek and the ditch;
20
and your'photograph, it's looking to the south, is, that
21
correct?
>
22
A Yes.
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take the next photograph, whatV'*
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PENGAD C O V BAYONNE, N.J, OJO02 FORM IL 24 B
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1
2
3 4 5
6
7 8
9
10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
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Q And What does it",show?
A , That*picture is taken to the souths and it shows
Saling Creek with the ditch entering on the right side .of */
i , *
the picture.
Q Nowj is this where, in your opinion, the toxic
chemicals entered Saling Creek?
A. 'Yes
;,
'i
Q All right. And what does your next photograph
.'
show? r.
'
MR. CARR: And.that's Plaintiff's Exhibit 94.
A It shows Saling Creek downstream of the
confluence with the contaminated ditch.
Q . All right . Now;, did you travel on downstream along Saling Creek on the 27th day of April, 1979?
- A Yes *
f.` MR; LCARR:v And this would be the end of the picture,
slides, Mr. Seigfreid.
k,
.
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Q Going back to line 9. Now, did you travel on
' * 1J
.
downstream along -Saling Creek on the 27th day of April 1979?
A Yes.
-
Q And did you notice anything with respect to the
aquatic life?
,
- 20 -
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1
A Yes. 2
Q What did you notice?
3 A There was a fish kill downstream of where the
4 contaminated material entered.
,
5 Q And did you make a count of the number of fish
6
that were killed?
7 A A count was eventually made;' That was made on
8
May 2nd.
9 Q All right. And what did that count indicate was
10
the fish kill as a result of the phenols? ,
`*
11
A 1,768 fish were killed.
12 Q And in what distance along Saling Creek did this
13 fish kill take place?
14 A In the three and'a half miles downstream of where
the contaminated ditch'entered Saling Creek.
** '
i,
Q So that would have been from the point where the
17 ' railroad intersected Saling,Creek to the north three and a
BAYONNE, J i. J ,
half miles, is that correct? '
A The ditch entered approximately 300 yards north
of the railroad tracks. Q . All right. And on the east edge of Sturgeon,
Missouri, is that,correct?
A Yes.
,24 '
Q ' So your measurements start at that point 300 yards
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1 north of the railroad tracks?
2
A Yes.
3 Q Excuse me, ,300.yards north of the railroad track
4 and extends along in a northerly direction or downstream
5 three and a half miles, is that correct?
6
A Yes.
7 Q And there were fish killed within that entire
8
distance, is that true?
9 A Yes.
10
Q Now, did you observe any phenol odor or smell on 11
the 27th day of April , 1979?
12
. A Yes. 13
Q And did you observe that odor smell along Saling 14
Creek?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Arid did you observe that smell in the center of
17 Sturgeon?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And did. you observe that smell in- the area of the
20
Kemrier ponds?
21
A Yes.
22
Q And' can you tell, characterise that as to whether
23 or not- it was a strong smell?
24 i ' ( A \ ''Yes,-- it .was strong.
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.,: i Q .7 'NowV. did you taka' any water ^samples from the
*1"'*^V"4*I 7'
7 7 . .7 - 7 - 7 . 'V ' * . 7 >\\ v . . -V- `
Kemner ponds? -7 7 '.>
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y ; Q .,Did Vyqu^ take, any1'wa^er /samples/ from:Saling Creek?',
5
' **
Xr'l; a ; ;Yes> ,''r;
J / - V - '0
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.:! *-Q And didjyou $ est/this water; that you took to , ...;;,
1 t 'r
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' \ y ; >,-'r ,,r"'/y . . ^ /, j .t'- -,y;k;/, /L ,
y-''
> V L]determine whether or not it would kill fish? ; "
1
7 '8. ; t*
A
_7 ' .9' r . `Q ' . How did you test it?. .
.10' j-/V:/' .n;
Vo i,A r,,. /We/used^ bipassays;. ,*. ; \
*, ' : y r\, y k k
- " 1. ' V ' ' ^
y- 11 \ 'y-.;//'^ Q ./ 1 Arid "tell: us ;what; that means?' , "T^ , ,// ', ,*
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7->r "^A f' ` In^dur/bioassays;we place test: fish/ wriioh are / v-'-
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.Sluegill1fry, in.a 'samp!e-of water-and determine the* - r
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`'amount of time it takes .for;the1fish to either show some * '
;7;( '`si*
'7_ , ,-* ',t '' " .
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_\ ` 15 /
'.-type of `stress or death. '' ' . : ''r: ' v
l-.' \
- .'yi6
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v;\y/y;:rlll
.'X. iV.,-,
J- ,Q ' , What happens when you put the'blue gill--
.j St l:' r-
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^ ' / v '>'1
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t
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MR* CARR: No,/what happened. *'.:
,'v;':
-PEN GAD- CO^ BAYONNEr.N^J.-'OTOOi- FORM' IL'AB
>/ '
/ ; y- '" - ,y -:---* ' '7 ;; " Q" What happened; when you/put the bluegill; in the water
", 19A -you ;obtained from Saling Creek? / ^ 'J/. ;'''J ` \
/1
; v 20 ., "s-"y ` A. . The water:that ,was/obtained immediately ;
'
/, 21 /
/ ,-.7 ;`
-downstrearn,of the' confluenoe 'of where :this contaminated
rv y .- 22 :
-7] 1
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.
''f ''/
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1 / '}} . ; 'material/was entering, the,; fish> showed, immediate, strressarid
7 7 -*Vv 23,
, ' .y -U-7/;
>^o7.y*7-fy, -fi:>, "'0 -
,77 . 7V;
were dead .in.four.hours *v -
.-',. fr *24
-a,r7'y,77.7/, .7-H;rii-7M'.<z>A'y77/;,7^vl' '-4u 7'.5, ..\
right-;:Q ^ i
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you-.u-s. 7e^^ a. ny tests of. water taken .
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T ENGAO CO.^, BATONNE, N.J. ' 07002
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/at any/other, points downstream from the .confluence. of the A / K v :
2'
drain-in paling Creek? .
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A n d ' w h e r e ; d i d " y o u ^ o b t a i n ; t h a t t e s t .w a t e r ?
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'One mile.downstream*.
f
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6
0 "... ,Q; jAhd what happened.-when you placed bluegill in
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.thatvwater?' 1
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-; .A ,,There was'; no'.apparent stress '-in.our\72 h o u r t e s t s .
9; ,/ ' Q ' All r i g h t ;NowjV,did you .take, any other *samples v; -^
lb T
*,;pf . w a t e r
along
Salihgr Creek?
-
A ;' V , . / - L '
v "" 'A ' . r
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11
t ;`A-A There was;a sample taken at' 3-3 miles,iarid 8.7 ,i-
1 2 > "miles'-'Id"o-w.nL'sVt're-am.' ` r" ' 1
r` ` - *-.`V ' ' // -*i-- ' ' '% `
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13 \Q;; ' And when-were those sample Btaken? ,.' ,V 1 \ ^ _ tv
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A j Was'taken on April 27th, 1979-
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A - A l.Q V And what did'those tests show? .. ;-" ' :
^ , .; .
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; A In our bioassaysV those tests showed that; there. ~ ...
i'
17 , V V
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.were; no-toxic, conditions -presents ,
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18 " -
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- ; Q , Asof-the 27th,,sofar as the'fish are c oneerned?
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Q ';'r'All right. A\ ?ui; did you find dead fish in the >/" 1
21,
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stream prior/to^thatV is
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f
that4`.correct? '
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/;.* \ Q f Ali,,right`Did-you find any ;other vertebrates in
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.the .Kemner ponds-that were dead a3, a result- of the.toxic /
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Chem icals? ^
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l* ( - " ' ^ ^ ^ ^ - V 1 JVp*^ J * , "Z1. Do .you understand1what I mean* by. vertebrates? /
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pC *, 'A- 'Animal with anbackbone 1 , ` /
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8 - birds, mammalsc Is that .correct? . ^
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'' .Yes.,
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' A ll r ig h t s Would you t e l l n u s
1 ' < 4 '' 11 <-1
w hether youvifound
-v
11 ' ;,'* '1 2
any'other vertebrates. In ;the'Keaner ponds that -were dead
' ,_''r A;.' \ \ . ;: . . :
i*
as a result-bf the/toxic-chemicals? J 1 " '' ' r -
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13 .a; ; , The: o n ly /t h ir ig X ^ r e c a l i would^'`b'e'.^.frogs
M4, L' . 15,
; //,
/Q . ,V And how many 'dead f r o g s d id ; y o u 'f in d ? u,.
A ; \ ;I /d o n '-t r e c a l i th , number , i- -,
*'
. 16 3'
Q tWas t h e r e , a l a r g e /.number, ` r sm al 1 - number, can you
' 17\:
^ cterapteriB e^h^l;?^^
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PENGAD CO,
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'1or..t*her^
w
ild
life
i n th e are-a o f the. ch em ica l s p i l l ? f ` -
11 i t
21
-, - ' . / A _ , I d n ' t . r c a l l T a r i y . . ^ ij/ . l;- 7 7
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dead '-r/
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*23';
.1
9
the 30th .of A pril', 1979?
Y^- ' ^ `V
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25
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.. \ / / 'V/ , v '^
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And a t t h a t ' t i m e had t h e carb o n w e irs been , 1 r r- .*'
. 2/ ^o cated .a t'th ; c o n flu e n c e 'o f th e d rain ag e d itc h and, th e
aplace where *3t en tered S alin g Creek? ;
^ ^ / ,
V'
4 ,'* ..A ' ." Van..1
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X.
'
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5 ''
Q ', A hd'did y o u .tak e w a t e r s ampies b e l o w t h e lo c a tio n
:6 q f 4 9 'th e ^c a rb n w e ir s ?ft '
7 f1
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% / Q .:- And d id y o u / t e s t th o s e sam ples "on b l u e g i l l '. i n a
^ . *1* ^ ,/ t - , i 1; il' !
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te s t here in your laboratory? *Vv '*-k- . , \ ''' ' 's1'.,. * - -v ; ;,'* -
A Yes .
*;-" - '
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'. :
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~7 ' 11' >J rV. ' - ` - v- " v r / ?' < ' V'-
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^ \ r Q ` And'what happened, when`you'tested;this sample of, .
u4
1
.` 12- '
v -';
,./V ` '
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A ' \/' p *
;
; the water you .had taken .from--Salihg Greek at' this; point?. * < r
J. 1 3 '/, / A.. I believe the'water ,that was taken, .that was being
.`
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*taken *from the.Mitchjand n o t .from Saling ?Creek,* s o .our
; / >V! v
; O ' l i / r ' ^ y v l i
-^ y
/ / ' r ;r ;
V* P. '1 ' ' t
1
`test .would be 'on that lwater*V ,
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All iright'.v/ 'And .what .di'd that water show? , t
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9*
f* ' IX'/
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,/ A ,, >yIt.Eishowed that :it wa'S' toxic to fish-in less, than
t * ' 8 ;
^ ^ - -
,ten Vminutes
J. v. / '.x
p#.2>O-J 19 ../ Q : . I n o th e r w ords,, th e f is h - d ie d ^ w ith in less.- th a n "
PENGADCO
* . 20
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And t h a t was :w ater t h a t was ta k e n on. th e 3 0 th o f ;
V& , // ^
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A p r i l , -1979? . a . Yes:;
*-V :;//'' ,* : K\'r \ * t\
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-:Q ` . Now,'did you make .some tests.;On-the firs,t of, May,; v
V: \ ' ,,;i;. ;V ,,If
\
r \ ) : -s- , ' \ 1 O
1979?
T 7 ',^ 7- ' >' ` 1 ;; .;'7 \ v Y
-\'V. '
V '
A.';, I don't believe we' made ,any clhemical`t-e:arths
* s,
, Q 1 :.bid you malice observations .about how the 'toxic
5- 7
`Vi .. ' .'vo!'7 ' .
\ ".*
materials were moving downstream in Saling.Creek? .
6.'::
A 1 We- may have made visual7observations.
i
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f n"
.
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* ''
* . Q Did you write-,ithose iri\your"memo dated' May -23rd,
i-'
a
/. / v
r\r':y C y , {. V
`^i979? * J "'-*it?}~"it * . ^ -*'
.*v' .
, -
9 f\i}
y- i .*-Aj. -Yes
^ , l,` , * J,.y-
10 ," -
^
r
* - V''f1 - i ,-, . ->"Wi? '" *1i- . /. 1- ' -
F ,, i
*(V v: ; Q i And what did your memo indicate" and I'll, ask. you ':
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-
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to read yo.ur,' entry^of May. 1st, d979 , please. ..j - '
-T
12 -
j"w,? $
f< J..'r^vy'V-if
-T /
':
i'/ '-
^TheXcohcQhtration' Of^ toxic^
appeared to
13
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'".Vkitt*`w ...w. -j "V*4rtisim'i!/i,4"''a'a'o-+*. afnoV'a -iA-;'* 'r\m1A,`-'m1A .n .'.V''iia`li' i .*tJWO IQil@S'
BAYONNE. N.J. 07002 FORM JL JE* B
i
15" Continue,.please.
16 f
L-:ttXt was -obvious'that if any1iristreamtreatment to
17 !be accomplished it would, have to he initiated immediately ; 1
18 ^ rThe- leading edge of.'the .slug was approximately '1 .j miles
19 20 'y 21
downstream, -,A small number-of dead fish were,.observed .
* * '.
2; ,, " '
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, 1-
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whereathe concentration appeared tio;be greatest. "Carp and
r\ f' "i "r*1,V: ,v'
r
^bullheads were collected,for analysis by the U.S. Fish and
*
);2
J':23 U
24'
Wildlife'Service'*";; . ^
,/ .V;1'" vi i
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... :Q ' "Now.do ^oULhaye- do; you Fhaye a copy of.these ..
reports from the Pish and Wildlife'with respect'to thse `y-.
i *2'' 'O";/F
-7
^ *-
27 > '
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carps and bullheads?.
2\
I-1
-A No., ; \ .... .,,. 1\ . .1 /
'.'3
..
Q.- . Can you tell us why not?
,
4/
A '\ v N a . " ' ",
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t' * I - '
d -l'
14
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Q . ; Now, on May the 2nd, 1979,. did you and Jim1 * v
6* Czarneski .make .a .count of fish, kill?\*
1
-7 ' ',- A.,/ Yes,
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Q; 'And where'-were'most, of th dead fish Encountered
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.? A ;r^^Iinmediatelyi';downstream?of where the contaminated
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ditch entered Sallng Creek.' "1
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-'Q '"JndL how'far ^did that kili exterid? l.
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\ 'v, , Q- Now, did-you take any. samples .of, the water from
S either the* ditch or; Saiing Creek for, purposes of-vhaving it ]]*
* 16 testedb .laboratory? ^
17 *' ,,, A j Nne', other than what would be-represented" in
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;these' .memoranda.
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-somebody else made, is that- correct? f 1 ^ i. *
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FENGA.DC.,O BAYONN.E .NJ. 07001
'PENGADC.,O BAYONN,E, .'Nj. 07001 FORMI .L14B :>S.
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Q,^AiAh<a> i t / s ? y o u r .t e s t im o n y t h a t -you' b e l i e v e san area
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Q And;that's!'where, it entered Saling Creek? A o
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stream was .contaminatedAby `the.:toxic'chemicals? -- j.'
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` ; "j.' ' '' 'HR>`'/CARR: ' And h e r e Mr *-"Schoenbeck - c r o s s -exam in ed
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/ ; ` A aannddiiIl., wwillli ..ccornittiirniue'' ttoo:: rreeaadd^: tthhee anssweerrss 'oOff :tthh"e w^it^n--e--s--s'.
22, (i ,A/_
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MR.^CARR:,- January ,the llth/. ^//A, / ; `:
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-' Q \ Excuse>m,-'.oh 'January-the- llth, you were; there to make
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A - - At' t h a t t im .-th ere wa, no v d r ic e .o f m a t r ia l"
9\ y 10
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12
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leaving the "site and thatvwaa largely because the!
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materials `so-ii&..ified atv;''f;r-ie. ezing'temp'e/r1atur.es;/ '' '1 -, '; ,r:^
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.
.was'no threat to the State ^waters;at that ,rtime? '' '`
f-
.; . A I f a l l t h e m a t e r ia l had b een 1c le a n e d ;u p ^ I 'm n o t
;,,
14 ^ e u r e i t w a s 'r e a lly -k n o w n ,the f u l l - e x t e n t o f .c o n t a m i n a t i o n .' 1. ;
5 ,
I. w a n t;to. e x p la in t h a t I 'm 'a s k in g ,you rab o u t Jthe ;r-
16 s t a t u s o f t h i n g s oh January :th e i, 1 1 s t 1 9 7 9 V"when you w e n t , r ; V
.PENGADC.,O SAVONN,E .NJ. '07002 FORMIL24B
t o S tu rg eo n ,'1M isso u r is and i f you Would,' c o n f in e you r / . W ' '
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i hnswer^'Jto Tthfl.t p e r i o d ' *.^ t[[r >
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. if the material'was, not .entirely picked up.that, it could
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t h r e a t e n o f f s i t e , w a t e r . y "1
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2 -. ^outside of the Missouri Conservaton Commission Department ?
^ i' \? * 1 * -A (/v,:I>think'.: that^wa.s: a ;fairly general assessment of
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1'< all the' people; anvolye.d iVithfthe cleanup, initial ^response fr v1'
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^ Q.7 - Let me, ask you "this.,- sirV Did you'ever r;
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-communicate that' concern that! you 8ay;you had ori; January
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:11, k1979i to anyone from the Norfolk Western Railway / \ ^
Company?
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N othin w r itih g . ,.' " ,v ' '
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A r e 'y o u s a y in g t h a t you may h a v e , you may n o t
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penga'dCo'b.yon, .nj. ,.o?oo'" row'* il*b
16 : *` Q / On; what o c c a s io n --- D id .you sp ea k w ith anyone from ;
. * 17 'f
'the:Norfolk.&>Western,on any oceasibn,V s i r ^ ' r ^ >
- ' t ` *.
18
r .-A r. Not' to my knowledge.
. - ' ' '' '-'
, 19 *ji - ; 20
i *!Q : All right.f-So I *take it you have n o ,recollection
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./o f ever-having-com m unicated; any c o n cern 'to anyone from the' ; -
. *x > ; 2i ;; j ' >t N o r fo lk ~ft. W estern Railway-' C om panyabout, p o s a ib ie .'-fu tu r e , ;
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v . ; Q Nov?,, s i r y ou ; ha ve -.before y o u , do' you- n o t , you r
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1 memorandum^ fyJanuary 25th;, :i$Y9 j- which .was .marked1,at/a'
;"
/W it {H ~.-y '?Vy,V ,v-^ i-i'"' * lJ,
_ v*1'" * ' '
:2 previous, deposition as 'the''-Defendant1s Exhibit II3?? v; '
3 . A' ' MRv.GAHH: -No,1.it will bevPlaintiff's Exhibit-- ``
-4 ^ ^ !t. , ' / . "
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's \ it. will read .Defendant's, Exhibit 1 at thatV-time, but
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' Plaintiffs* Exhibit ll3 .now, I believe*; ;
7
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Sir, X'm goihg /to read a statement from that
9. .memorandum and I fll ask if this is an accurate'statement of
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the memorandum which youprepared.^ "Agent Billings, and I.*
11
investigated arid v/e:did riot' belieye .that;the material-
12 \ posedfaVltoediate"ha2ardy'tO-.State waters."' ';;vi **.' .
13 ; *>* ', '* 14 n sir?,
\Js that- an ^accurate `statement from your \ r e p o r t '
; \
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15
A' ^ / Y e s . ' ; 7 ..-/ '
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16V" - Q . And was' that,your belief at that -time,-, sir,?,-'
17 >'
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j ? i 'Okay. --'I take. it5,sir, .-that, if you.did,;feel`there
19 ,//*'
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'was' an, immediate ^.threat,\to;.State waters you would (have . ,
20
'told somebody about thatvwould you not,; sirY' .
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21 ' '22
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of' your .duty'there
to determine whether there- .was -any -immediate, threat to
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State waters, isn't that"true?
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a1blief that there, was-ah, immediate -'threat to1State' ' <
;. 4 / ': waters, ;did you?
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.anyone from. the Norfolk ?:,Western Railway ,Company- about .
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^steps to;,prevent only ;groUndwater;oontamlnatlon? v;,'
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YihYoncjvjnjfQv' the future back on January -the" 11th, 1979, V
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was ;reiated;'to:what/mlght happen ,in; the spring, 1sn11 that corr slot
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19 :
o j.Q_ Okay . Is it, your opinion' that.at this::time on
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^January. 1lth,' 9795.the^material was ''ln solid ;form? ' ' . !,.
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/were 'out' there; at Sturgeon?; ^You ;mentioned ;it was /snow'V .-yyy; y . ; ' v .
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it was when]' you were'hut there at ^Sturgeon?
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/present.`at Sturgeon from the period ofVJanuary ,11th all .r / //
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the way up],to. early March".when clean up of the site was ,. / J ,. . -/.1r./y 1*,/ -r ;/ v *: ^ ; 'y /!,-/11 - .- ;- y ^ :/J,
progresalng by the removal ;of contaminated soils?;
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,. . 'A`rid' th"ej1n whren` . yJ ou-dJ.id*' g'*o;1b.a>ok to Stt.ui rg. ed' 'n thfat 'n; \
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was, I 'beileye-,you said/'pn March, ltth> 'to/look at Kemner y
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also, at fSaiing Creek or tributary of;Saling Creek; IsJthat j
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:Q . you recall/whlch 11 was, Just the tributary of 1 ..
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of 'any.,contamination 'of -that', tho se\ headwatrs-'at that tr ( / V
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Earlier today you h a d ,an opinion that' the rfish,killed in , ; * -
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;14 ; had .caused the fish to j.dlOj, Is .that correct? r ,;;A
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from /some- other
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' \ .Q/ ; Isn't there a;'relatively comiaon,. phenomenon, that
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sometimes ,1s. found in arm.bonds/under winter conditions
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phenomenonr,is;,; sir?, '
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cused by a depletion p f the dissoived_oxygent,under ice* 7
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``s.n,ow''./c'overed\ ice'^in-. t`h'Fe;. Wifnta'e, r.A' ' -, ''
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v ' Q ./It/s. certainly.possible,, isn't it, 'sir,' that' ther ! .
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fish\in ,the jpond'may have; been ;killed by winter kili- prior /
15 ;16 ',.17 -
10, anyrphe'nolie materia1$;entering the^ pond? i.
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./ . Q. .As' a .matter/of,/fact, youdid look at bne' pond-
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that wasr hear/the iKeninrJhPusehold that you .determined had >' .*
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no/chemical contamination .and yet you/did observe a fish
.20 kill-there^'isn^t^that/correct?.^ ,- ;
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i W . A '^jtdi aI-vbufev;another*:,person on -our,staff, did. , - \
/^ Q * And'who\was that? -, ... .^ ',,,'0
7 A Jim .cbarne'ki./1/; Vl'
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,;Q. You*yp!seen hisJreports to that effect?
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BAYONN.E .NJ. OOQ2s FOR'.MIL2.11
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re part of your business records of the ' ", 'v. 'artment?;
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6 attached. < I believe-it was 113A,' B and C. Bo you have
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7 that before'you7
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A `Yes,
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Q ' If you would, sir-- if you would refer to the map
10
'which has b,een ,previouslLy,i marked as the De1fenIdant's
11
Exhibit ,1130-- .
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12
MR.. CARR: Plaintiffs Exhibit.
13 Q Excuse me, Plaintiffs' Exhibit 113C, I understood,
14 your testimony to be earlier, that you did not,draw this^ diagram,
15 Is that .correct?
16
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17 Q *;..>And I -aleo -und'erstood -you to say that you did not
18
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even see any culvert underneath the railroad track, isn't
i 19 V1j*'t
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that correct?
20
A Yes,
,
21
Q Okay. There is a culvert shown on the diagram
22 but you have no knowledge of the fact that there is even a
VP
culvert there, isn't that correct?
/ %.24 f
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- 37 *
PENGAOC..O BAYONN.E .NJ. ,07002_ FORM1C24B
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; ';Q So `I take 'It;;that.you have no., knowledge one way -
or':the other as' to whether: anything co.uld have ;f1owed , / ,'' f
through the*'culvert on or before;-March 17* 1979? :; J J A Well, based-- - I don't, .I had n o t seen the.culvert but based' on the' lay* of the land, water" that falls on the-,
ground would have- to drain' through that' general vicinity ..
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of the pond, that is'where: the culvert'is.!
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the south side of the railroad tracks; sir? , \ * *;**t -
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falling to the nofth;slde of'the .railroad track.-could flow ''
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through tho, south`side^ }based on your own personal*knowledge?
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:, Q .NoW/ i1'talce:'vitf,; you `can't tell us one;way ;or, the
other if^there iwas a</culvertS'there whether that, was opened
at any time, bn or before. March' 17 ,.1979?
, ; ,.A./ Yes.
/ >-. j ^ /
Q 1 When you were "out there* oh March 17'had ,any -
barr*ier b' e' en' -,erected tj*o:* .t. h^eisouth .,o*f-,eithe.r- ,of~ the. Ke*m'i ne' jr;; 1*
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ponds?',t/'
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A ^ .Yes..'
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; Q And could, you describe that.barrier for, us, sir?.
A it was about one foot earth dam that w a s .added,to/
- 38 -
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1 the lower side of the pond.
2 Q Did you talk with anyone from th Norfolk &
3 Western Railway Company when you were out at Sturgeon on
4 {March 17th?
5 A . No.
6 Q Sir, X take it that you did not look at Saling
7 Creek in the area of the town ditch entry into Saling
8 Creek on March 17th, is that correct?
9 A That's correct.
10
Q ;. The, time when you mentioned that you did 11 I .* / . t^1/ J'
investigate this -area.;of "tKe1town ditch which flowed into
12 Saling'.Creek was over month1later?
13 A Yes
14
?.
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Q And
15 A Yes
16 Q Now
17 Sturgeon, back to Sturgeon on April 37th, that was in
18 response to a report that you had ,1ust received from
19 someone there at Sturgeon?
20 A Yes.
21
Q And who was that report from?
22 , i
A Xt w\as Dean Conn.elly. 23
1;
9 Do you know what his position was?
24 A He was.a police officer with Sturgeon;
% :
- 39 -
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was a condition which he'"had Just1observed?
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. Q ' And you went out .there., that ,very .>ame day that'
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13
April 27th,\1979> the cleanup contractor, OH Materials,/had l,
14 " already.put three;carbon weirs along the town^ditch, had
15
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q ; . ' Excuse, me, which would have"'drained, through the town
21
ditch would, not have drained the area, of the majoi* spill? -
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1 . Q Okay. ! take, it that you had, not received any " '
V .V- 2.,. 4i. y f 1 , reports from1anyone1in' between March 17th and' April 27th
3
-'that there was any phenolic materials going through either
/:i ' 1,4 43,
the underground drain.or through the town; ditch?. f ' ,
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'that*you had made'that there were still cpncentratioris of ^ .
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.carbon weirs had been put up on April-27th*
* 12,; ' V;, \Do you recall that testimony, sir?
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Q 5 If you would compare the-results ;which; you .
;> is . received from-your samples on'April 27th? the samples
`,
` 16 which- you took from the/ditch oh that date, with:the
17
results of the' samples ,taken .on-,April 30th, could you tell. .V
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A \., There"was about,a ten-fold reduction'in *
t . 20 i-cbhceritrations of phenbl'compounds.-J
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In absolute ..terms the amount\of 'ortho-chlorophenol
,* ^22 'V* 1 in the water which ,had been some .2^0Vparts per .million '
7-
\23
on April 27th had been reduced to approximately 26 parts .^`c. 7
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per million' on-'April-30th, isn't tha,t correct,- sir? *
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miilion/dwri; to/i6 >parts per million,' isn't !that correct?
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Q 'Sxuse^ me/ And ,Mr. Seigfreid was\asklng you about '
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.something that was
fndr8.7" miles ,downstream. '-Actually the
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10 .numbers .that "you found:for April-3pth were less than one point,
11 ;one part per/.million; 'is/that correct? "
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contain the ,,-results 'of-samples that; -Were -taken by.- OH- ;-
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1 8.7 miles downstream in Saling Creek was actually .28
2 parts per million, was it not, sir?
3
A Yes.
4
Q To your knowledge isthat level toxic to fish?
5
A It would probably be not toxic to fish-- in less
6 than a day or two.
7
Q All right. Incidentally, sir, as I understand your
8 testimony about this whole incident, this was an isolated
9
incident, was it not, sir? 10
A Would you explain?
11 Q Okay. You used the term concentrated slug of
12 material moving downstream, did you not?
13
A Yes.
14
Q And to me that means that apparently at one time
15
there was some contamination in the stream which you
16
discovered to be on April 27th--
17
A Yes
18
Q -- which moved downstream and then passed out of
19
the Sturgeon area, is that correct? 20
A Yes. 21
Q That is what I'm saying by the isolated incident. 22
A I don't think-- no, I'm reading something else.
23
Q All right. Let me ask you, sir, if you would
24
turn to the last page of your report of May 23, 1979,
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could you read the lasttwo sentences ofyour report?
A What page?
.
*
Q Page 4.
A "The fish killoccurred over anextended period' of time as a concentrated slug of material moved downstream* . Instream concentrations 6f lethal levels of
phenol compounds existed for at least 8 days, April 27th, 1979, to May 3, 1979, and possibly as long as 16 days,
April 17th, 1979, to May .-3* 1979." Q All right. So this incident that we're talking
about of any contamination of Sallng Creek was something
that was limited to no longer than the period from April
17th, 1 9 7 9 to May 3rd, 1979, isn't that correct? A That is what our documentation that we have dated
shows.
Q And actually, sir, when you start the period at April 17th as opposed to April 27th, you were Just saying
that that is a possibility, isn't that correct?
A - Yes.
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Q You have ho knowledge that there was actually any
contamination of either the town ditch or Saling Creek
during-the period from April 17th to April 27th, isn't ;
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that correct?
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1 amount of rainfall .that fell. All right. The chemical
2 concentrations documented only eight days. However, based
3 on what we knew we could speculate that it could have
4 possibly have occurred longer. We do not have any S information to document that. 6 Q All right. So. what I understand you to say is
7 that all you can testify from your own personal knowledge 81 vand tests which you saw is as to a contamination of the
9
town ditch and Saling Creek for the eight-day period from 10
April 27th, 1979s to May 3rd, 1979s isn't that correct? 11
A '' Yes. 12
Q And as to any other period of time, such as going * 13
back to the starting point of April 17th, 1979 you actually
14
have to speculate, do you not? IS
A Yes.
16
Q Did you rely on the information that you had
17
received from Mr. Gilmer in carrying out your duties out
18
there at the scene, sir?
19
A Yes
20 Q Do you have any reason to doubt the information
21 ;which you received from Mr. Gilmer in that regard?
22 A No.
/ *-
23
Q Do you consider that information that you
24
received from Mr..Gilmer about th level of concentrations
't
1 that they were experiencing as of May 3rd to be reasonably
2 reliable information?
A Yes.
4
Q Sir* do I understand you to say that there was
5
some improvement in the carbon filtration system that OH
6 set. up in this area?
7 A Yes, 8
\ Q Could you explain what you know about that?
9
A . I only know that it was a high, rather high 10
efficiency filtration unit that was, to my knowledge, 11
state of art equipment, . 12
Q Okay. Is it fair to say that on April -27th, 1979,
13
OH had set up something that could be referred to as a
14
temporary or stop gap measure to try to reduce the
15
concentrations of phenolic compounds, and that certainly
16
by May 3rd they^ had a much more efficient system in operation?
17
A Yes.
18
Q Do you know at what point in between April 27th
19
and May 3rd, 1979 OH had put In the more efficient
a^
filtration system?
21 A No.
22
Q j'f,.Now, sir, in your'memorandum of May 23 1979, you- /
2 3 *, * 1-- - i \ .t ,
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do report the results'of a tesVyou made of some water1, !* , -
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from Salihg:; Creek that was 20 yards upstream of *the
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1 confluence-.with Baling Creek, is that correct?
2 A Yes.
'.
,
3 Q Could you explain whether,that was water that was 4
actually taken out of Saling Creek itself? 5
A Yes, it was. 6 Q And would 20 .vyards upstream of the confluence
7 with the town ditch be an area that was closer to the town 8
of Sturgeon than the confluence of the ditch with Saling
9
Creek itself? 10 A . Yes. 11
Q And can you tell us what you found when you 12
made a bioassay with fish, with water taken from 20 yards
13
upstream of that confluence? 14
A There was no apparent stress in the teat fish at 15
72 hours.
16
Q So that means you left the fish in the water for 72
17
hours and then you couldn't see anything wrong with them,
18
is that correct?
19
A Yes.
20
;iQt 1-*} Now, sir, if here had been any contamination coming 21 * *
from the Kemner ponds into Saling Creek, would it not have
22 >- been at; that,, location* 20-yards upstream of the confluence? > ;
23
A - It would have-been there.
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* Q .And doesn't .the-fact that your test;s'hdvrs- no :
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1 apparent stress of the fish indicate that there apparently
2 was no contamination coming from the Keraner ponds, in the
.3
Saling Creek at that time?
4
A It could indicate that there were not toxic
5
concentrations coming from the Kemner ponds at that time. 6
-I could not state that there was no material coming from
7
the Kemner ponds.
8 Q Do,. I understand you to say that if there was
9
anything coming it was obviously at a level that was not toxic
10 to fish?
`,
11 A Yes.
12 Q -Okay. Now, sir, I'm not clear on this point.
13
When you went to Sturgeon on April 27th, did you confine
14
your Investigation to the town ditch'and the Saling Creek
15
area and not go down to the west end near the Kemner ponds?
16
A That's correct.
r 17
Q '.So you couldn't 't^II .us one way of the other what
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the condition of the kemner ponds was on April 27th?
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19
20 Q ' ,You didn'tevenlook at it on that date?
21
A No
,
22 Q So you didn't observe whether there was any
23
aquatic life living or dead on the Kemner ponds on April
' 24
27th, Is that, correct?
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2 Q The time when you looked at the1Kemner ponds was
3 that occasion on March 17th, 1979?
4
A Yes.
5 Q Now, sir, to your knowledge the only contamination
6 of Saling Creek at levels that were toxic to fish occurred
7
during this eight day period from April 27th to May 3rd,
8 1979?
9 A Yes k,
t
10 Q X take it, sir, that the photographs that you took
11 of the town ditch show what the ditch looked like on that
12
one day and ho other as far as you know, is that correct? 13
A Yes.
14
Q .. .And that day-was April 27th--
1 5 .: ; ;;*' ' r' ; `{
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17
A "7es,
18
Q Incidentally, with regard to one of the photographs
19 that was shown you, I think ItTs Plaintiffs' Exhibit 2-- ^
20 Mr. Seigfreid asked you about that photograph and I thought
21 I understood you to say at first that you didn't know what
22
the men In the picture were doing. Is that correct, sir?
f23
A Yes.
.
24
? . Q Do you have any Idea what the men are doing there? -
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handling,a t `that time, isn't that/correct?
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6 . Did you talk to .those men at that scene, sir,.and -.
7 ask them what they, were doing? ^
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**i Q r'"-'Mr'. Seigfreid" asked^you a question about observing, '
15 /' f-^TTrifw ,other ^dead <yertebrates atVSturgeqn," Missouri,, and .you said;
16 /
*
17
18 ,19
20
21
22
23.
24
.yi-,1tvy<-,,* *3'
' you sa,wJdead frogs.
. . ,J
^k .Were, youJalsb;talking about that one incident on ; March 17th .when.you observed the Kemher ponds?
A . State that'question, again.,;, ^
^ :;
- ' ' Q .; In response to, a question'by Mr / Seigfreid you .. 1V V .. - ` *' , > ^J-',1 .?;, , J .; - . - F - : ' - J -; . , r ' indicated at one point oxit at Sturgeon you did'see some
dead frogs, is .that correct?
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1 A It was on March 17th.
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2 Q And only on that date. Isn't that correct?
3
A ' Yes. Or April 17th. Excuse me. It was March 17th.
4'
Q The day that you went out there--
5
A Yeah.
6 Q -- to investigate the report of the fish kill at
7
the Keraner ponds?
8 A Yes.
9
, ;Incidentally^1Mr. Seigfreid also asked you about
10 ; \ f .,.. \ V i l ^ 1 i the Saling 'Creek being affected for an area of 8.7 miles.
11 "
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'Sir, to your knowledge the levels-- you did not
12< * *. 1 / 1 ' v. - i^-- ' '
observe,^-a,ri/yv1.^.\d;a>1d1,,rfis1h in'' i>the area that was 8.7 miles
13
downstream, did you?
14
A No.
15
Q , ,And by affected, I guess you were indicating there
16
was some concentration of ortho-chlorophenol and phenol in
17
that region?
18
A Yes.
19
Q Can you'tell us what was the concentration of the phenol
20
at the area 8.7 miles downstream on April 30th, 1979?
21
A It was less than .06 parts per million.
22 Q Is that th same as being less than 60 parts per
23
billion?
` 24
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Yes.
6i;W
51 -
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BAYONN.E .NJ. 0J00I FORMIL24B
1 Q Was that the detection limit of the tests?
2 A Yes.
3
Q , So it indicates that there was really no phenol
4
detectitle at that point?
5 A At that particular level.
6 Q You're talking-about the level of 60 parts per
* 1 * J>!
\ \ tf \ ' 7 ` - ' J/' J '
7
billion? , V ? # . * > '\
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,
8
A Yes.
\
; *' *" , / `t : 9 '>? ' - j': : 1 .. -
MR(. CARR: Arid here there was cross examination
10
by Mr. Witzel, and again Mr. Seigfreid will read the
11
questions and I'll read the answers.
12
Q Ron, I have a few questions. We were talking
13
about Mr. Seigfreid and Mr. Schoenbeck asking you questions
14
concerning this slug of material that you described.
15 When you went, out and you investigated the ,
16
material that was being discharged from this ditch, what
17
date was it that you observed that the leading edge of
18
this slug was 3*3 miles downstream from the ditch?
19
A May 1st, 1979*
20
Q And I gather you went out there and you made some
21
observations, you checked to make sure that the leading
22
edge of the slug was at 3*3 miles downstream from the
23
ditch, is that right?
24 . ^ A . Yes.
`u
- 52 -
PENGADC.,O BAVONN,E .NJ. '07002 'FORMIL?4B
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Q . Nw, .you also told'ub that you had made some " ; ' y.i i>I r
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,I
calculations, to ^indicate--\ first .of ,.ail, oquld you telliis '7,/
3
how you did.that? How did you determine.the leading edge . :
"4 '
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of 'the-.'slug that!'waBMi''3^i3 miieB?
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5 / . v. ,.<iT. A` t r`t i . \n'KV*'Cd*
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7 A That's based on 'observation1as to the behavior of '
6t
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the s-tream^orgahis~msi^expressing s`tress in relation to some
7 type
, 8.
1 Q , And .did you determine that by going downstream. `
9-
10 f
11
,12
and:checking as\you went along this stream, that, stress from :
the phenol'was"occurring;in the stream? '
.
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"Q And-did.you stop at 3.3 miles or did you go .
13
beyond and check there to. determine? r
,
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r ' \A Went down as far as -20 miles., , 7" " ./
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15
.; , Q So/the, 20rmile,period, 20 mile stretch of that
16
stream.you checked"to find'th leading-edge^of this slug of :
` 1 7 .'
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material?- \ ; ,7 -,
1 8 .. >.. Yes'.
19
t20 21
:22
23 4 "
", 'i
rQv'.', And you determined that ,to be 3* 3 miles downstream
from .the ditch on May ist-r; .1979? \ '
A ( Yes., . \
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. 'r'' ' T' v? :
7
Q Now, you* also told us that you had established -
that
the
sludf ge
or
\
sl/ug- --A,
which.is'itJiJ I , fi
sludge
t
or*slug?J
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1 Q I keep saying both ways to cover me. The slug,
2 the leading edge of the slug was traveling at one and a
3 half to two miles per day?
4
A Yes.
5 Q Now, how did you determine that? 6 A That may have been determined based on the
7
location of fish in stress several days before that. 8 Q Well, did you participate in making that
9
determinat ion?
10
A Yes. 11 Q And from your scientific observations and
12
investigations at the scene, you were able to determine
13
that the slug was traveling at one and a half miles per
14
day? IS
A Yes.
16
Q Now, your first indication that there was a
17
discharge into the stream was that there was a discharge
18
into Saling Creek on that date?
19
A On what date.
20
Q On what date?
21
A On April 27th.
22
Q Now, if there had been a discharge beginning
23
on April 27th and you found that discharge to be traveling
24
at the rate of one and a half miles per day, how far
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down3tPam\woi'd^6uifave^expeted to find the leading edge'1.:"''
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of that slug .on,'May 1st ,* 1979
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: . . A I don't think, it'would be reasonable .to assume
`4 that it-Was. moving one .arid;a half ta two mils per day for
5;
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each of those days. J t "would Just;be valid for that
6 particular; day or the day; previous;. ,
-, ^
'7
- Q l^hat 'particular, day or1the day previous?
* Ar 'T Well, :this, estimation of one and a half to' two
`9
miies per dy:is. obviously baaed on* an observation Jthat
1l0 was made on perhaps the day before. '
` < .
11
, Q ; ;But the one and a half 5 If -I understand you '
.12
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correctly then, the one and a half mile' per day figure for
13^ , traveling is valid .for.two days but not more /than that?
M
. A Probably.
. :;** -
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J y,/, ' Q `. .What, about forv.a day preceding that; two day:period, `*
* ' 16
O' de would you ,expect your slug to be traveling at he same rate
17
:of sped, faster.or slower?, J
;i
. 18 '
"i *1^ .A\ - I couldn't really, state,. itv ;;it'would -be dependent
19 . upon the; stream flow 'and ;the grading :o'f the stream, tthe
20
21
22 :
t- mti
-n.`a^t-hu' re
o.1f
the 1
'.'s4treamc^c1h/'hjr-fi- e, .
There'.^>i1s. reral' l'Hy" ak-,lo't o' f
diffVe-'r.e^n-t* f,actors that1contTrol the- movementJ,, . , \ . ' . : '/ ` r-` f i'
.Q 1 So all we Vve 'been able to ascertain frpm^your
/
2V3' observations'of the .one and a halfrmile per day Is that'in.
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24 . '
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.the ,two day period >,th`sludge ^or slug traveled three miles? ..
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A ** * * ^
A Yes.
2
Q How.,
3
miles downstream from the Intersection of the ditch and
4 Saling Creek, on May 1st?
5 A Yes.
.^
;
6 Q ` Mow, how many days after your April 27th initial
7 j
P4
information that there was an entry of phenols into Saling
8 Creek was it until you observed this slug 3*3 miles
9
downstream?'
*J
10
A Three or four.
11
Q And you had checked 17 miles ahead of that
12 particular point, is that right?
13
A Yes.
14
1\`r. 15
Q Ydu didn't find any solution in that particular /
point, in that entire 17 mile area beyond the leading edge
16
of the slug, did you? ?
A That's correct.
s
m
18
Q How, if there had been a discharge prior to May
19
27th-- I Tm sorry. If there had been a.discharge.of this
20
ditch into Saling Creek prior to April 27th, 1979 in this --
21
period that you had told Mr. Schoenbeek that possibly
BAYONN,E .NJ. 07002 FORMJL>40
could have been from April 17th, 1979 through April 27th,
, 23
n197.9 would you not have expected to find some evidence of
-24
.^'at-'i'ieast another slug or of a further traveling Of the .
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A ,',I; wouldnrt necessarily beable, to determine
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exactly the ^concentrations:that may have been different
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' !}l' ;, 'Q ;I^w e ?rekgoing to1talk about different solution--^^1
6*
if;there was an earlier slug it was-of such minimal:'
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concentration that/ there ;was no*way :you\coul^ detect; it when. -
8
you searched'for it 20*miles dovmstreamv isn't that correct?:
1
9
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/-a-, ''I-would say::if there was a.significant;;slug
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.before"that.:date there would have .been no;fish left `or ; \ :
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:;;fewer fish Aloft to kill during th second- slug .* 'r . ;
12,
';' 'Q.^ ';So If,,in ,fact,;there'was a previous slug it had
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to be of an,insignificant Concentration;as far^as potential .. !
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.toxic `effects?o n aquatic" life in/Salihg' Creelc? ' s - - .. ' / * 'I\ , *..i./
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, Q/\ 4 So;if1there was any' concentrations--, if `there was
P E N G A O C O . . B A Y O N N E . N.'J . i J " O O O
ii>*r *<1, 17 any. discharge^ any, slug; between-April, lyth^*ahd,,JApril'27th, '
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' V*: L,'V"-h it was:an ineonsequentiai disoharge ,in;all respects :as1to r,
; 19
effects, toxic -effects ,'Orr aquatic .life in/Saling Creek? - 1 :
J,20 1
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From ,which date? 't ? W A f n '
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. -Q - April i7th- through April -2?th, 1 9 7 9 ' : /P* '
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A ::r Perhaps unleBs 'the material' h a d ; -let:me say1,
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u iii!i 'untl,1e-ss,,f`t'h,*,t..''v^.'^`t.r,'ViCali*\ 'had^be:enr;f;d*l*s.*o*h'fiIi'rg', drfro%m', theV,d1itch and
- - 'i: * y*v ^ y / 's\' ` y- .. -*i. .t-t\ , *hadrpooled;;lnja pportion: of Saling Creek,. in a small area of /
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Baling Creek and thenwith subsequent'rainfall was pushed fuithisrr
'downstream* '" ; .-.7 - :'/
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,J\ "Q Did you findjany'indication that that happened?.
A No.' ` *
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Q Dp you expect''from a professional standpoint1
and froin'your .experience.,a,s .a professional in fisheries, dp .
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'you, have an opinion;as :to whether that pooling, and
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subsequent discharge;in .conjunction with.a second -
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.discharge, occurred? " (
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I have no evidence'that it did occur.- I 'm Just-
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;saying/that'it could hatye .occurred;' ^
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* *, Q 'X 'mynot as'Hrig you that. ^I'm asking you, as a.
*
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professibnai'and on'the basis-of your professional, opinion,
do you have an opinion'whether that pooling occurred?
.* A - .Based ori theJphysical evidence that we; have,
have no reason to believe that; that/happened.
:*
, Q r In. your opinion it would be that it didn't happen?
A 'Yes.' /'/ \ 1
/'* - 7 . 1
'' , k . NOW, you told us .that you measured the fish kill- -
7
17 ' . -' ; - '
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in `Salirig;Creek o n M a y 3rd, 1979 i-a n d 1n response to a
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,questionibylMr ./Beigfreivd,;`you \said,that:*you found that most
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^of.the fish jiere immediately, downstream of the confluence.s,
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.^cis>youJ5maW/-b^'nt5iie 'area, or the distance
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.I \ Jimmedi*ately downrs,tret _a'm<bfti 1the cJonv-fl' ue,nic^e? ^ \u' 1 ^,rr r ; '
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, A ' . Are;you talking about;length? '> '^
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' ;'Yes^
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-, A>;'\/'Within thevf1rs mile ,
/ -s\;: v ~f> 9 - 'Okay. How many1fish ,di^'you find ;that',were`killed '.V
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6\ in,the ;3/what is it,-3.3 mile distance that you checked?
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;Q -u;.' How. of the 1>768 fish, -what percentage :?>''.them,/ '
;;9/ did,,you find died within the first mile below the confluence?
" - ' " io ,
' 11
}! A- I' can't ,tell;yoUfthat/without having ;'tha.tvoriginai^V;V
X/` ` -'-L'' ''Z' ^,1,v-<- ' ., ;: -*, -
date, in fnont of me. v.-\
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PENGAD`C0,, BAYONN.E .NJ. '700 ,FOHMIL*B
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- , Y -ur'-V Q%A/:;Do 'you' have >that,data? J^,/ ,JL, , pi
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.Q 7 Did you record 'that data? . v'1"-' , 1
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part of your
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20
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A v :Yes.t'V*Originao 1 I r,
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,./%- * Q' V7ould, that -be;kept ^s .part of. the Department's,
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'S'* : "file or is that ..in,a'-private file, of yours; where that was; v ;
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jkpti ;whenver it was kept? ,
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Q Is. tht fila.r.rin..this building?' *' 'vc./ - '. V \*:t,
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A ';Yes.
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Dotes that fil .indicate where you actually found/. //
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the numbers-or the/percentages of dead/fish?
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/always retained because it is, summarized in a report..
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/ `Q Hon; .all we're. trying to do is, to ascertain, a *Tr
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1 ^Xf1'-il.1a'<n. sw: e'jr ,,t'b^th questi.'-o;'n posed. . b. .y Mr.v Seigfreld ras --Ltp'y,``. -` <: ^,u-
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;what "area;.was, ffected ;5and.then ;I-.believ. subsequerit -_//'/ ,
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was what.area was'cntarinatted;vvl
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14 V'us`e-d'vt.h'e Jword1af^fected?arird:;:then- contaminated* in.tox-VicL,'^v \ -
15
0AYONN,E. .NJ.
16 ^
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17 " V;^ V '' ^Nowv*.if'-,it.|s.8vLdalls,;wewant to Vfindft h a t o u t .
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If ,it 3 .'i'vmi -we want'"t V fIrid that out . `;?If it 's 1 /mile/1:
19 we wnt ^to/ find^that' out / '^We`d o n 't want/you to .guess ' If /
20 ; you1vergot" that data here;.I fd iike/you to do/arid, get it; , ^ :
21 3;/^ A. .The,, information.'that we:, have 'is ,that the fish
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'/kiil" extended 3'5 miles
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/L, ; ` Q Is thatf- ' OkayV, 3*5 miles was the total dis tanc?
24/ :
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/1f.-'r A- - Y e s . That1s the area tht was affected by contamint ionv
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PENGAjDC..O BAYONN,E .NJ. 07001. FOR-MIL2*a
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,,Q. ^ .In'other words,. 3.5 miles* downstream from.the / - " Sr#*. /
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confluence ;pf the ditch* with 'Sailing Creek Is the last- spot;/
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you found the dead.fish? ; '
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5, Q . Now, what I'm1trying to find put is what, was .the ,,
6 *' ;'slug,:where-was the slug of.these dead fish?// Was, it within
' 7,
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the fli?st half "mile, first quarter mile., first: mlle i and if
8
y*o* ufv' e gr'otrrtt-ha,tt* datat here^someplac*,ejii*.I1 ,w,joulfmd like ,4-to see it, 9 ^*
; v', A Okay. They "were dead-- dead fish .,,were found
lOthroughout .that*. t V .
ri
11 , Q I'understand, that. -Throughout what? ,;
12
A .Throughout the .3*5 mile section..
13
.Q . ; Xt understand- that.
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;
A A pollutant Is,diluted, of oourse, iwith an increase /
15 . `
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of stream flow 'you ;areigoing ;to^.find- less mortality,. ^
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17
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18 Q r bo you recall, .and again :;we!re not-going to`ask you
.19
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:for-(the ^exact numbers'of, fish, but'yoiir. best recollection *
20
of what percentage of this 1,768 fish you found within the. 5 -
21
first mile below/ the^ confluence of:the. .ditch and Saling Creek?
,-22
', ,A ^ I .reaily.couldnj t approximate that , /V' / \ \ , *
23
- ; Q . You couldn't ^give ,us your best' estimate? You, h&ve
24
no rec, o-llection'/.wha<t_soevetr; ?
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Q / How 7about the; last mile, do you have any..
recollect ion of what 'preentage1of the fish you wr ,ble . \
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`t^uo"r4d\. Jet-Je1c',tr1,rn d4ea- ?d' tkf`!ril'shj:,|yf' `within' ,.-tr^he; l"a"st",j;1*m"ib^le`r o1.Jf 'th'es, e- *3*'j5"/`"m1i^l,e'sj/,
/ A jJ I couid-stateJthat, the firsti half,of. .the affected'JL%
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v.rea had-.a higher concentration of dead, fish .then the last
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; Q V ..JSo In the first" I,? miles more than 50;.percent-;of, "
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/the'fish'^'that, you;counted were, found?, \ ^
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,`C 7 ' ,,Qv. ^/ll^thatT doesKls-.tbasically getrus down to. the ^V*' -7,
14 50/50, situation?"':^7 ; , ,
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v+ ;/5p7percent before halfv;ay and 50 percent after ;v r
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Xjhaifway'.can you.b\anVmdre ^precise; than that? ',J' .
PENg .dC.,O BTONN.E. ,NJ. 07002' "TORMIL24B
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' 19 t ; Q;-.'.': You1r hot.caying that 50 percent of th dead '
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..fish were, found beyond ;one,half mile downstream,;tdo I'
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'.^understand you-correctly?;
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A 7 Yes . f'. Jj
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Q .^ Shatl.s correct. Are you not saying that?
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24
Yes.
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recollection,so'you couldn't tell us it was'as.high as 80- '
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perc' en>t in ..the, f;ir, st^ half?
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; . Q Okay. Now, in response .to Mr, Seigfreld's'
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question; concerning- that 8.7 miles downstream vasVto. /, - ;
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chlorophenols'.at the .8..7 mile mark,- is that right? .
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A ;.Vv-'7here7;Were"detectible''phenols at the 8-.7 mile' ;,
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What'concentrations did you point there? ,- L ^
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'y , .,28 `parts per million of >orthor*chlorqphehol,
,14
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` Q lihat percentage of phenols or what concentration
15
r"'o1f phenolj'?' " , " t -/^o -,L^ 16,
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'A '. ' Less-than .06; parts per million. '. 17
;j j Q Per million or per billion?, 'v`'
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A '' Million. ' `
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Q And, the OOP was .28. parts; per million? -
*20
y , ` A; Yes.'/ 21
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Q So,the total concentration of phenols'and .
r*r2 2 ' h
chlorinated-phenols you.,found at 'the- 0.7 mile wasy. 3*1;' .'
23 `
parts per million, is,that correct? ' 24
.
;V' A . I t ,would :not1be any higher than that;-7
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Vt,' Q And'your/testimony1was that that level is. not,
'that those 'chemicals are. not" toxic to fish, is that ' ' correct? A 1 ..-.Ehat/s correbt-i
F v ;Q' i 'So 'whehiyouVsay.r'it'was/affacted, what do you meanF
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'by that /word, is/ that you were, able**to 'detect, some minute. .
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trace^ of^.ltlat^that ..point"but not that it had any type of
'toxic *effVeVc.-{t-s^, iJoi;n/ Jli.e;/>*fwi?*s.ih"'at/t1hat,,point - jon t.h. e' s.*tream? -
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'- Q . You can't tell us at what, point back- up the
'stream that\ there, were--/. You can't tell us at what point in
the stream the toxic effects on fish extended-to'other than
f -v.
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; it wassomewhere; before the 8-7 'mile?;/" 1 . `
'
A' No, I can. . It was in the 3.5 mile. . Q 1 ;HOkay. *'So the; furthest i t .extended as '`far. a s .being
j.toxic to fish three-- was three and a half-miles?'
. ..
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5:
` Q,--V And beyond that point the significance .of toxicity
of. fish-- 'L, //
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:; Q> . was unknown..You didn't find-dead fish beyond'
'.that point?" / ; / -L ; j 1
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Q,, You found dead:fish at.the three and half mile
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1 point?
2 A Yes.
3
Q Three and a half miles downstream?
4
A Yes.
5
Q This was a moving body of water, is that right?
6 A Yes.
7
Q And these dead fish, when you found them, what were 8
they doing, were they floating on top of the water?
9
A In some cases, yes.
10
Q Some cases they weren't floating?
11
A Yes.
12
Q I assume those are probably the two possibilities,
13
is that right?
14
A Well, what happens when fish die in streams,
IS
streams aren't, except in some portions of the state,
16
streams aren't open ditches without any obstructions in
17
them. Even in a moving body of water the fish generally,
18
especially in a small stream, don't move very far after
19
they die; they get caught up on stream tree branches,
20
obstructions, any type of material that is blocking the
21
channel. That's more characteristic of small streams like
22
Saling Creek is.
23
Q Well, whatever movement there would have been for
24
dead fish?
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.Q 0;'. :Would`-have`,:'ben ^the2result of flowing water of
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.Saling Creek',- would thatvbe-fair to say?
/-A/,. 'Yes.
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.Q / And,Lthe flowin'gI(water' of' ,Sal' ing,_Creek .w'ould have
been carrying it, downstream, is that /correct? ,
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/- A v Yes.
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movement 'of water ln /Saiing Creek; had?-
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\ Q Th furthest downstream you found-any dead fish
was. three and a half miles?
.'y* '"'A^' Yes1. ' ,
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V Q.,' /You have a memorandum dated January '25th, 1979, r
and'X. j;ustJwant- to- clear, .^p one; particular point Mr..
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Seigfrid asked you about; The last sentence o f `the first
paragraph stating :< 'VJestern Environmental Servie es, St .
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Louis-referring to>:wht has been marked .s. Defendant's
Exhibit ^1--. do you have that memo inLfront of you?
A *" , JrYes.f'! '^" ': t/J' -,- Lj.^; '
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* . ,MR. CARR:_ I don:ft recall what that number is,.
Plaintiffs * Exhibits 114? 1Anyway, ifcrs one of these
exhibits, Your Honor, X don't recall which it is.
A The last sentence-, of'the first 'p a ragraph>:8as':;; ' ;
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' -'. - MR'. MUSGRAVE:- * Thatfs the question, Mr,. Ca.rr.f'
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,t'lQV" ..The ;l&st sentence of the'first, paragraph says: -
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riiater, Western'Environmental.-Services, St. Louis, -a-..'
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railroad
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response
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gr`lo1u'p.,
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the cleanup' operatibhs..,,
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- , I understand you ^to say you had ho personal
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knowledge.of that particular-statement, is that correct?
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;i:. A \ Yes.
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comment' you!heard from someone or.unidentified comment you
` * h'eard-'.from^someohe? .,
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you J7
Ju*\s*' tr"'in. cI*lud, e*d 't1h*at inthis* paJr*t'ic`*ular _ -,1t
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-memorandum withoutany personal .knowledge? ,/
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K`* 16 . A- ;Yes1.
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PINGA.DC,.OBAYONN,E ,Nj. 07001 FOJ ,MIL74.
17
, .*r Q . And. at no point-did you,have any;conversationsf
18
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' 20 ,2i
22 J .'.t`--V -*
with any persons from Western Environmental, is that correct?.
'* ` f A-.'That'-s correct;.-
:L ' :.MR. CARR: Then we had re-cross examination
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. by Mr;,,`Selgfreid. '' > ' V y ' \ . tr^:"
.
,-
; fQ/ ; Ron, I want to ask you. a couple of-'questions,' if
\.x 23
t ' V ;r may.
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v .When did you. first learn that] there was this
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contaminated toxic material running down through some kind
2 of a drain down the railroad right-of-way from the point
3
of the spill eastwardly?
4
A I believe it was March 16th or 17th when Jim
5
Czarnezki investigated.
6 Q All right. And any of these filters that were
7
put in, they were put in between the place where the water
8 drained out in this ditch in Sturgeon and Saling Creek,
9
were they not?
10
A Yes.
11
Q How far were these weirs that we 've called them,
12
how far were they from the point where this water drained
13
out into the ditch in the City of Sturgeon?
14
A Several hundred yards. 15
Q So that this ortho-chlorophenol drained down a
16
ditch in the City of Sturgeon down to the place where the
17
weirs were, is that correct?
18
A That's correct.
19
Q And whatever the concentration of it was that was
20
measured at any time, that was the concentration that was
21
passing through the City of Sturgeon, isn't that true? 22
A Yes.
23
Q Now, let me ask you this, from your experience
24
would some of that ortho-chlorophenol have been deposited
*. - 68 -
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In the bed .of that, streamas it pas sbd;along?-//*/r; / l r**
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/ Q jNow,' with; respet to. these :measremerits- .that are
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shorn in your report with reapeot, to, th ortho-chlorophenol |;.`''
.5
;*and _.the'.phenol/ oontenit> !tpr insiiancOij: who made; those. ' ; ^ ;j
ineasurements of ortho-chlorophenol as/shmi over/on`page 3` ,
-.i. : '
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^ / "-///,
7 of Plaintiff's Depositibn/Exhiblt No., 1? ,.-r
.
,,8 .
, / \ 'A-,.. Most .'of./th'eTn-viere 'mad^/by/.^he, OH company..; -.EPA ( r
9 y1 ^Jv V ,-\l V/ " j; v .':r-; `v1,./( v * , * r^1*1, " t'"', .
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/;did;onevofithe analysis,>( \
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Q' _/And-did you Just, ask them `What-the tests showed Jh'' k\
V
14
and they -gave that to; yoii?> r'.
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/j' A , I believe they're une1eri some type.of agreement to 1 ;
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/ provide ar^ informatioh/they hi.d' to ahy investigating
PENGAD;C.O-,-DrAONrN, .HJ. 07002 FORMIL24 ,0
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r agency. --
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j i., :Q/ r.Yl seev iWasthat- don orally?, r, r'v ?/s ; ,i 1
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-A ' X belieye sb.-^'/ '
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( . / /And^wholwat -that' giviri to?, Was that /given to you -,
21, > , . . " a
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I/ since;itfs.:in your repbVt?
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If*'at the;,Cite and they /gave you .that information?;
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13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21
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A Yes.
Q But so far as the Department of Conservation
actually running any of these tests, they didn't run any of these tests?
A Not on this particular phase of the investigation.
Q The only tests that it ran were tests that were run early on, isn't that correct?
A That's right.
Q And that was done by an agency that was employed
by the Department of Conservation, isn't that right?
A Yes. .
<
Q So what you really observed was that, you observed discoloration of the water itself in the Kemner
ponds and In the Saling Creek and in the material that was
.coming down this ditch in town, isn't that right? A Yes.
Q 'iAnd'this .discolorationvin your opinion was toxic
chemical of ortho-chlorophenol and the phenols and
whatever other chemicals'that w<ere in there, isn't that
*. i, ' i V` * - ' - ' ' ' ,
~i
right? .. . 'f 1 *v %' #. 'i 'i *7 1 i
A Yes.
Q And then you observed the dead fish; you observed
that with your own eyes, didn't you? (.
A Yes.
i
'.ii
70 -
*
PENGADC..O BATON .ME .NJ. 07002 FORMIL24B
TJ % V`
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1 Q And you sensed.the smell; you smelled It, didn't you[?
2 A Yes.
i
3 Q And you smelled"It all over town?
4
A . Yes.
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5 Q : You smelled it up, at the Xemner property, didn't
6 you?
7 A Yes.
8 Q .And down at-the river you'smelled It?
9 A Yes.
10 Q And as you were going up this river did you smell
11 it? As far as up at -8*7 miles downstream,*could you still
12 smell the phenols?
13 A r^ X think I could .. 14 Q That's your best Judgment? 15 A I think I recollect that X could smell it at that
16 point. 17 Q 18 19 Q
8.7 miles downstream? Yes. Have you been back to Sturgeon in recent months?
20 A No.
21 Q *; -When (was the last time you were at Sturgeon? ,.K'
22 A I believe it was May 3i*d, 1979* .23 \I ^iL1*- <1- \ J-> -Ti/ 1 f
Q i:\ Andv.you' could still,'smell the phenols and
;24. orthO"Chlorqphenol at that(time ?
't I '* - 71 v ,u
PENCADC.,O BAVfjON,E '.NJ. .07002 FORMIL24B
t i;*
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1 A Yes.
2 Q You could still smell It In all the places we
3 talked about?
4 A Yes
>.
5 Q Did you ever, were you ever told that there was
6 dioxin also in this tank car that spilled?
7 A' Do I really-- when?
8 Q Were you ever told there was dioxin?
9 A Yes.
10 Q And when were you told that there was dioxin?
IT
A I don't recall the date.
12 Q Was it sometime after you started going up to Sturgeo
13 A Yes*
14 Q Was it sometime in April or May?
15 A I believe it was in March. I'm not positive there.
16 Q All right. And what were you told about the dioxin?
17 A I don't recall specifically other than there were
18 low concentrations of-one'jparticular type of dioxin.
19 Q . Do you.remember what type that was?
20
A ;;it*s 2,.3,7,8V:
_
21
Q\. ,-And do you have knowledge of whether or not 22 ' ': v :'V ;V *
that's the most toxic chemical known to man?
.23 A I have knowledge that It's a very toxic chemical.
24 Q As ,a matter of fact, you wrote an article on .dioxin
- 72 -
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. /, '! -1
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1 for the "Conservation Currents, didn't you?
2 A Yea.
3 Q And that article was published,in June of 1982,
4 wasn't it?
5. A Probably.
6 Q And do you recall in that article you said dioxin 7
is one of th most toxic chemicals known to man?
8 A Yes.
9 Q . And did you also say that dioxin could be carried
10 by fish?
11 A Yes
12 Q And did you find that that was a very serious
13 problem in the fish population that had been exposed to
14 dioxin?
IS
Yes.
16 Q j`;Arid did you ,report; that that was something that
17 was causing problems with our<support fisheries in
18 Missouri?'
`;
t1
19 i * ^ >A j *
A Yes.
'** '
20 Q And did you believe that that was a problem in
21 the Sturgeon area?
22 A Vie had great deal more knowledge of the problem
23 in the situation you're referring to than,we had earlier.
It was not very much information known, at least'available,
- 73 -
I when the Sturgeon incident occurred.
2 Q So when you wrote your article in June of 1982, ,
3 there was more knowledge known?
4 A A great deal more.
5 Q But in retrospect knowing what you know now# this
6 dioxin would be a very dangerous thing in fish# would it not?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Now, when you made your investigation on March the
9 17th and saw this fish kill# did anyone in the area report to
10 you that they had seen dead fish before the toxic chemical
11 spill?
12 A No.
13
Q ;u 1Anyone, seen-dead fish in the Kemner ponds before this
14
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.
toxic chemical spill?
15 A '.,No.' .. V !jf\/ *. !l
16 Q / -Arid, did you inquire of the, people that had reported
17 r* mr* f ' i F '-** 1 ! 1
this# seeing these dead fish in the Kemner ponds, whether
18 or not they had been there before the chemical spill?
19 A I don't recall. In all likelihood they would not
20 have been there. I would not have knowledge of them because
21 there was ice on the ponds at the time of the chemical spill.
22i Q But it's your opinion that the chemicals were the
23
cause of the fish dying and being there, is that right?,
t24 ..A*' Yes.
.
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, Q ;Isn' t it unlikely that you ,would see hundreds.of ./
fish dead like you saw Just from a lack'of oxygen? 'Y
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small ones, If It was an-oxygen related.kill. :v,;
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Q And did. you see any `surviving fish at all?
A f'.. N o Y `;//.'/ -Y :V ~;Y :; ; V ' v
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' In ,your
opr yini*o*n' ` we.Nre'al" l
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Q - And in-yoiir;opinibh *were they dead'because of
this chemical?
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.'7;:rMR./CARR: 'And, here Mr. Schoenbeck asks some'
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. .questions on his.recross examination, which Mr. Selgfreld
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will read.
, J. Q Hon, I. want to clear something up/' Mr., Selgfreld
asked(
you
a,
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or
trwo!.Var go
about. when
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you-first
learned
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that there were phenol comppunds going `along the railroad ,
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right-of-way in eastwardly direction and you Indicated .
that was on'March l6th or 17th when-Jim Csarnezki
Investigated* is that correct? / `
' A Okay. On that*date I would, have realized,they
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were going in a westerly./direction. ' -
Q You're, talking,about your testimony that, phenolic
.^chemicals may have/gotten in the Kemnkr ponds, are;you not? /'
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Q' ' Y o u 're not talking about anything going into the French drain and then into the town ditch and then into Saling-
Creek are you?
A Yeah, that's- correct. It was hot until April 27th
that I found out that the material was draining to the east.
Q Through the French drain?
-' * .ir Yes; f :1 ii fi Q '* So when you answered Mr. Seigfreid's question a
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little bit' earlieriyou' did not mean to indicate'that you
found out anything abbutfthe,, French drain or anything
going through a French drain on March 16th or 17th* isn't
that correct?
A Yes.
Q. I'take it, Ron, that it's still your opinion that
there are at least two possibilities as to what may have
caused the death of the fish in the ponds of the Kemner
property?
^
A I'm not sure that is-- .to me that is not a
relevant question in that the concentration that was in the
pond was toxic. Q Sir, I 'm not asking you to pass on whether the
iquestion.is relevant but Just answer the question.
.
A Based on.that question there could be two
* 4 ,
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1 Q And. those possibilities are that it could'have
2 been winter kill or it could have been the phenolic
3 compounds, is that correct? 4 A Yes.
tf
5 ; r.MR. CA^R: Then there was recross-examination
6 by Mr; ,.Witzelt ;V'\
7 Q *Ron,1 whetn|*1 yoi u-3'"w-ei \r^e che^cking Saling Creek in May
8
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of 1979 you were at a point 8.7 miles downstream. What
9
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date was that when you were checking the Saling area?
10 A April 27th. ,
11 Q April 27th?
12 A Yes.
13 Q And you tested the water at that particular level
14 and you found that the total phenolic compounds were less
15 than, X believe your testimony was before -34 parts per
16 million total concentrations, is that right?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And this is some direct mile or miles, but as'the
19 crow flies, if the crow's instructed to fly in a straight
20 line, how far from Sturgeon--
21 A It would be somewhat less than 8.7 miles. The
22
distance that I measured is stream miles.
2$
Q Okay. And the stream meanders?
24 ^r
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but p
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;know, exactly how, far from--
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5 .
, ->. ;Yy 'MoV,;:if.'.I understood';your, testimony before when *
>_.*'ITF'
6' you were'.^asked^^byvMr./lSelgfreld that, you -were* out, at that
,, 7' "point on April`27th;, 1979 that- could you smell phenol,
'8
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;
ortho-chlorophenol .at that,point f j ;/ 'f r
a n d :the
answer
I-
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1understood was,.I belleyis T could, did you smellYPhenol;
10, * . ; ..
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do. you know`for certain you could;-smell phenol that, far /
11 .from -Sturgeon on April :27th,^.197?7 *a -
12 : A, As you're awareV it's.four years ago* I don't
13 , have, any record of. smelling the material on that 1
14' particular day but X do. recall that thatwas the furthest
15 j( .downstream location theft'- c o u l d detect it just .by smell,
16.'
; ;;
TO* CARR: . Then there was some redirect examination ,bir
17 1 '
.'j
C"w
|' ,^
" Y. Mr. TheissV ;/
"
18 i( r
. ;-v\ ;q MT. CrUnkilton, Mr .`Seigfreid-has asked you about;
. 19
a June 1982 article you\wrote in Conservation'Currents.
20 , '.
I r\ ;
f
.. ' Has -the Food arid Drug Administration of the
21 , United States, established an acceptable .levelLof. dioxin of
` '22 23
contamination in fish that; humans-can-, eat? " v:-
TA
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r * '*,./*
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< A They have established.what is called an advisory ,
24 ;
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rw '3NN0AV9
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 "uO 20 21 'i 22 23 - 24
"- i, r *, , | i Q ^ ;And can you tell us what that advisory level is,
set by [the United States.J:government?
` ''j ' j, f ' ' 1
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A The. concentrations?
:V,
:
i:,:
Q Yes*
A Anything, any concentrations in edible fish
tissue over 50 parts per trillion are considered to be
inedible
Q ' Okay. And what is the basis of their assumption in terms of eating, would somebody be eating these fish on
a daily basis, weekly basis?
A- That is based on an average consumption of fish of four ounces per week;
-
Q Okay. Did you ever do any tests to see if any
2*3*7j8-TCDD was in the fish that died at Sturgeon? A , No.
MR. CARR: And that's the end of that deposition,
Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay, gentlemen, could I see you at the
bench for a minute, please?
(Discussion was had at the bench between Court and counsel and out of the hearing of the jury and the court reporter.)
THE ^OURT: Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to take
* \ * 7C
'
a break in proceedings and also consider .some matters in
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:
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chambers tand1then-we*i -'resume on some,testimony
^ ` ,;*' ` *.r\ ( ' ,l ,.. .j, ' 7 .7 ''
before lunch.' I Would admonish you how as I do before
:any break in proceeding and this admonishment will hold' . <'.1.
for any. break1during1'the day, you are not to discuss" .y-.
V '
'
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'
,-
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,
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.
. '
.7
this/matter among7yorselvs,jwith anyone outside the ,>
Ci
;7~/ .Jury panel, and you are not to form any opinioris or :
.conclusions 7about the matters on trial. Thank'you
`for ypur attention*- Court' is in recess. 7
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7*1j' ,,7 . j 'f*T1he^' fjo^llowivn^g'proceedings, were t^henlhad,
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in chambers; with Court and counsel present,
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7 - y MR. CRR: r Your Honor, the plaintiff would offer Plaintiff5*
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Exhibits li3,,,,li4 and 115 at this time and would propose that f
.insofar as these copies are concerned that the Jury, be allowed
; to; read/them-,at this -time,, I, have .'prepared .eighteen' copies - 17
of;Exhibits' 113 and lift* since-they are rather lengthy,1so
each' Juror cari have on rther than take the time forleach
7 . // 7".;. ^ 7 /./ /
' ; ...V." " -1 ' - y V . -7 ,, 7- '7
Juror to read,them all* I have not prepared eighteen copis
. ' `r' . y 1 ,, --r --
- * .. . t ^ * .
rof therother1exhibit, but I can do so ,at the:lunch hour,
and that's1115,' have hot prepared, eighteen*''copies of it.
TH COURTs. So you prepared 113'and lift, .
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y MR. CARRs And Plaintiffs.Exhibitllft I have prepared in,
. -'`77 ` , 7 , 7 v ' ,
7!'
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'ccordanc 'with the .Courtis -ruling ras t the ;e PA analysis of .
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was .,
hearsay t T *
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arid not within, the exception to* the hearsay rule* ` I have
\ riliminatied that and' hereVs'a copy,. 7
7 '>
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3 , THE COURT: Okay7 fine.
7 ' : J. - 7
4 ' ^,v MR. CARR: As I -propose to send to the Jury*
J
5 '
MR. HEINEMAN: Is ^this the Only one-that has'been
; ,<
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.,
..6 excised?; ^ , ,/77"'. 7r''J" '* ''7 ,,7 ' /./* / ` ,
/. 7 ;
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' ,.;7 M R '. CARR: , That's correct. .. ;
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1
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MRV HEINEMAN: -115 as I understand it.,'.Rex,, is the 7
-
9 "January 25 f79 memo?
^ ^,
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10. `
.'7-/]MR*. CARR: That's^correct. . 7/* '7.y f7; '7,v -
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^ . ' - - '~
*';7. 'MR; H E R M A N : .From -Crunkilton "0 toitley.: Il3^ it 3/29/79
r Ji v7
^"777-
.-7,77^ .f ; .7 7, ` - ' 7 7 ;
12. from\Czarnezki to Whitley. Arid they,.are being offered in toto
13 - .-,*
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unexcised?
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.14 ;.'7 i-MR* CARR:;v^That'*s-correct.
ro<* ^
15
THE COURT: 1; 6 k a y W h a t do you want to do?
muozc.t\.' ,16
MR.. MUSQRAVE: Are. you going to start with these? 1 , \ `
Qsro* .* 7
17,
THE COURT: ,113, I suppose, so we can keep insome form .
z 18
szo>:''* 4 SI
19
of. order/ ;Any 'objections? , MR., MUSQRAVE:. ` vmere,is.113?
'7
\7
1-og /V'<oi 1
'20 , .,7 7 'THE COURT: J,That's',the March 297,1979* "7" ;7 '
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\ l 4 `7 /MR. MUSGRAVE: `^Is that to be excised* at all?
;7
22 -;
,'7 'MR; CARR:: It has.been already,.113 has. You recall we
!r.2t*3,' had a'conference and'the Judge ruled/certain parts dealing
vt v24 with;the EPA-- ' ' ; 7; '
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M R . MUSGRAVE:' Do you have a .copy of what youfre excising?:
2, MR. CARR :/`v.The:Court :has .the original' copy ; .1 direct `J '" y '
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4 'THE.C O U R T ,No, ll4 1s; the .one where T ;took things 1out. .
.5: :'M R . CARR r That *s right, ,I *m/sorry, No, 11 3 has not been
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; M R . MUSGRAVE: . Okay. \ We, object to the last paragraph
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)n.the first.page"'of'Exhibit 113."' Hearsay. ' r /
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' ' /.THE;COURT: ,s.Anybody fhave1anything^ to say o n i t ? :,
10
\ MR. CARR: Judge,' I Would agree to eliminate the
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statement as to/what Dr.:Van Gelder suggested in. that' '
12 paragraph*. '/-- * , \*.
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13/ J THE COURT:,.Fine;
14 `t ;M R C A R R :* That is that .sentence Dr . Van GeXder 'suggested '
PENGA"DC..O BAYONN.E .NJ. 070Z. FOR 'Mll 240
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/' THE^ COURT: What about the/ last, sentence about' informing `/
`17 temner of the suggestion? ' /
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MR. CARR:- i I suppose, it makes a.ense that ./should be *
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>ut ;also, .Your'Honor./'>/;.// ' '';*//' ' ' . / . f/; *L '` ```-1'
20 t / THE COURT: ,All-right.; :Why dpnrt I put ai parentheses/-*
21
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iround the part that g p e s o u t / ' ,7/ /
22
MR^ CARR:j You've/got the original, I111 do it on the -.
23 'Z'.*:/>. .,
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j sopy bcause i ?ll -have. an1.excised,copy^^ that/will;^be pa1*^ of.
24 1 * *'*.'**>'' .j *,
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'. THE COURT: Okay. Any'bther objections to- 113?
-^
1- MR.' MUSGRAVE:- Yes, Tour Honor . ; I would object on page 2
3 of the ekhibit^ 'Plaintiff^s.' llS, vin the last paragraph, the
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sentence starting at;, a Ramali: amount of precipitations and --
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i "f fc*i * Tt i Jrr 1t' ' * 1* - A*4l'j - V J - the last sentence, this would result in,a slug. Itfs all
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i`HWr speculation and*there's n foundation for this,man's opinion.'
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And it 's based upon speculation: and eonj ectur*.-*" , '
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10" MR. CARR: In response,t that,. Judge, .there's nothing to
11 Indicate that1this is ,conjecture. -This Is their man that
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they .sent; out to' survey the.-situation,, he is reporting \
13 exactly what he found and exactly what he believes' to. be the
14' situation/'.
15 , : MR. -STEPHEN .SCHOENBECK: " Your Honor, Norfolk-^ould Join
16 in the. objection to .that portion and would also add the
BATOiNte, ft.J..,07.002 "FOBM1L24B
I T additional rson that; this is, hearsay./ This" witness was ..
18
never subject to cross.examinationfon this information.;
19
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lhis.is a memo from Mr. Ckarhezkl, whose deposition was not-
20 even taken in this matter and certainly he should have been f
21 subjected to-.cross exaij^hatipn about thisrpoint... .can v i;.
22
indicate to the Court that"th reason that nothingffurther was
23
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done- on^ the-spillway, at .that`.time was. because the "bulldozer.
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before this, should .be. allowed', to,oome in. So we ,object^ to it / '
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for:the additio1n1a*l gro.unds.that, it's all hearsay.^. ^ --
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'MR. MTJSGRAVE: We adopt, that grounds additionally, too.
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MR. -CRR:', Judge, :X don't blieve it's hearsay, but
' 7`i;! .don't/haye any, they noticed us that they were going to,take-
8. the deposition.rof James*`Czarnzkl and we were available for
9 .that purpose, they decided'not to do. so. This is a business^
10
memorandum. 'However, 'it's! not-- certainly the sentence where.
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it .was reportedly done byvthe- railroad upon EPA's - ' v
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recommendation would be hearsay. *The balance of that is a statement of what he .saw at that-- , weily t suppose, this is ,a
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stop gap measure, at best would notjbe a statement of what he
'PENGADC.,O SAVONN.E .NJ. 07002 -FORMIL24D
15
s a w M but `the balance of this would be his .conclusion based*
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upon,what he saw.at the time/ the physical appearance or
17- r physical things, that occurred./'' It1s| a report, of;facts as/
- 18 * contained in the business mmo made'by a person in ,the course"y
19
;of his duties t report such facts ./
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?9 V 'r'MR.- CTEPHEN SCHONBCK: I disagree, with, the/
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-characterisation as, a statement of facts. : Itfs an opinion by
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this witness and therefs. been no-qualification.of the witness
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to offer`opinion on that/matter. ` I would ;simply, point.out
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'it was "noticed by Monsanto but not`by. t h e ,railroad. ^ /,
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.this,reportedly was done by the railroad upon EPAfs * ''
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recommendation. . I'will also take out the .sentence:, this ,is 7
a stop gap measure at _best. As to all other sentences, the .
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objections 'are overruled, /Okay# . Anything on. 11^?'
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. MR. MUSGRAVE: - Your'1Honor,,^the first page of Exhibit 11^,'
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the .second paragraph,* drainage from this area may have been
./ 8.;., entering Saiing* Creek since 4/17/7? j-^e would object to that ^
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as'conjecture and speculation. .
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MR';.STEPHEN.SCHOENBECK: Morfolk Joins in,that.
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also.
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THE COURT: The last sentence of the second paragraph,
14 'about drainage#. ' 1
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.. /' M R .'CARR:, The `last;.sentende on the -second paragraph?
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MR., CARR: This is '.something that he rs already testified
18 .
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to andJbeen^ cross examined on/this point,^ and I; don't, see
.anything wrong with, his statement. Your Honor. '.They ,have '
20 ,
-examined him,`bn-that"point 'at, some length^'
- '21
`` THE COURT: -Okay. X remember .it, too.,- Overruled.
' 22 r
,My other objections? V-, `,23''
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1 MR, CARR: Page 2, the EPA findings and that chart,, arid thfcn
2 on that same,page at the bottom of the page there's a statement
3 about the last sentence on that page* I don't have the
4 original in front of me, something about EPA found something
5 or other. The Court has the original, the last paragraph on pae 3
6 THE COURT: Yeah, Harry Gilmer, EPA, indicated that
7 affluent concentration were in the neighborhood of 30 parts
8 per billion. That's out.
9 MR. MUSGRAVE: Your Honor, that is page what?
10
THE COURT: Three.
11
MR. CARR: Last sentence,on page 3 the sentence, the Judge
12
13
14
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16
17
18
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20
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22
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just read.
M R . _MUSGRAVE: Just for the record, we would object to that being out.
MR. CARR: I'll be glad to have it put back in. You guys
were objecting to it being in before and that's the reason I took it out.
MR. MUSGRAVE: Let me be sure I understand what you're
taking out. THE COURT: The last sentence on the last paragraph of pag^
3 starting Harry Gilmer, parenthesis EPA. MR. MUSGRAVE: Okay. No, I was referring to something f
else on page 3 omitted. We're getting out of order here because I still have some comments on page 2. Page 2 of, ,
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I Exhibit 114 .we would object to the statement under the date,
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, 2 \ the paragraph that has the date Immediately preceding It, .
.3 ' V 30/79,, the, sentence that, starts, Mr. Rush'indicated that \
4 1 .he had smelled phenol, et cetera. ;We'd object to that,
s hearsay* .We.get to the, next sentence, he contacted the 0. and
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F-6 H. cleanup'supervisor, that 's hearsay,Zand statement with -
V 7 fregard to what 0. arid H. said to' him as hearsay* And we
`"'8 ^ would object to the last sentence-in that paragraph, starting. 9 , 'it was apparent that 0 /and H.,. et cetera, there;again that'
' 10 conclusion opinion based*upon hearsay. We object to it on
II that-basis .-* '`The next paragraph-- " '
\ lfi- J
PENC'd tC.o,,B*YONN.E'7 .NJ. '07001 TOR 'MILH6-_
12 THE'COURT: Wait a minute, let's take them one at a time.,
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13 ,; MR. STPHEN .SCH0ENBECK!, Norfolk joins In, those, -
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14 objections1, Your-Honor. .
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With relation'to the statment about Mr. Rush
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16 indicating that, he smelied.phenol, Mr.jRsh will.b hre and v
17 he can be' examined on that.,; But. w.e are not offering it for the
18 truth of 'what'.Mr.; Rush said- This is a1factual report by an
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t 19J. investigator* for the Department of Conservation who is .
20 reporting what h e s-found; and'was told what occm^ed. .As far
21 - as the OH ^statements arerconcerned,, again the Oh is the agency
; 22
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of-the^railroad and it would be'admissible for that purpose -
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.".Hr. ' record, exception to^the hearsay rule.^ .. - / -j. ;>..//
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`THE COURT:/ Rush isvyour next, witness, Isn't he? -
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/ 'MR. 'CAHR: That *' correct. J ,.'
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MR. MUSGRAVE: T don't know what Its relevancy- is if : `.
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it's not offered for the ./truth of it .and actually; it "s
, y5 `double- hearsay in that; you've^ got 0,.& ,H. presumably telling_ Ruufeh
6 who presumably tells these folks.
,|
7 MR.- CARR: There's-hothing about, what OH told-^; rOh, \
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-yes,Jthere-is indeed.
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MR; MtjSRAVE: There-isihfleed.
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-'/ i . MR; .`CARR: ' Well, he will be here . and he can be examined/^
bn that p o i n t :
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; 13
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THE COURT: Assuming his testimony,/I'll let'it .in,
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.since he is the next witness/ Anything else on'page 2?; "* > , j
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MR. MUSGRAVE: Yes, Your Honor, th next paragraph ori the\
PNGAD^C.,O' BAYONN.E .NJ.- 07002 FORMILIO-
; . 15
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same page\ the sentence'; that states y.Vtr. Rushuwas concerned^
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;hb,out/the^ safety of his cattle. That's 'a cnciusion oh their' '
` 17" behalf sttirigvthe state, b^,.;^nd`'of'abradono lse and can /
' 18. ] ,r. J. j i` . \ .,' l-.v rL'" . ''4 - ` only;be based upon.hearsay statements,.
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MR*"STEPHEN SCHOEpECK: Norfolk- would Join. ' * - : ;
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, ',,HR.", -CARR:-,TKe .witness ,1s here and subject`.to cross
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-r THE ,,COURT:, Same rling. - Anythirig else "on page 2? J r.
ir'. - - S-. 4-, MR'.' MUSGRAVi!S'w''lIthihgi'f;your.'-Honor.5
--'1;THE'5 COURTS i<b^pagr*3fci tl W ,
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1 MR. MUSGRAVE: %Just so the record is clear-.we would' /
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2 . object to, the excising oh page^3 of the tests and, the results
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.thereof that are indicated in the original exhibit, and I take:
4 ., 5
,it that- the original will be made a part of the record.
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MR., CARRs Youfre .objecting to thb elimination Of it? ,
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yl'm perfectly willing to put it back in.
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MR. MUSQRAVE: Vftitj the PA analysis?
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.9 ^MR.* CARR? Oh, jab.soiubely.;; '
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MR. MUSQRAVE: 1 Of what was found downstream?
11 ^MR;1CARR:, \Yes`. It :i;as, objected' to when we, went
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THE COURT: Yes, it. was. ^ ; V ;
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14 '.MPt;-MUSGRAVE: r/We didn't object`to it. You1,wanted it :
PENGADC,.O'BAYONN.E .NJ,' 07002 FORMit 24i
: IS t1^' ' 16
out because it was- v -i - ,,'
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MR..CARR: No, no, ho. I did. not. want It out;.'I .
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.TH COURT: On of you made ah objection to it, I don't 19 ,
'remember'which:one? * `V. ; , - *
. 20
' \MR. .MUSGRAVE: '`You're correct;. Xr',11 withdraw that.v
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^You're right.r*"'
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MR.' CARR:J Withdraw/what now, the, "objection you. made
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*.4 4 MUSQRAVE V o b j e c t i o n that'*I *m `making`how.1;
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-4 /.Indicated *that actual affluent concentrations were in the
' S' ;neighborhood of 30 parts' per billion. ; That was ,taken out by
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61
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8:-', .MR,. STEPHEN SCHOENB.ECK: 'The testimony-in the''deposition
-9 . about that was- from raypcross examination and it ;was' stricken
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at your objectionv/Mr- oCarr .^. ' 1
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,; MR. CARR. I may; stand .corrected' on that,' ,,SteveV ..
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a. -THE .COURT:/rI don'tohave a copy^ of it..v'
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V . -:-MR. CARR: Do you recall what, page it was? ^ -
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'-,' M R . .STEPHEN,.SCHOENBECK: /I'm- 'looking `for it right how. ",V;
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it was in Crunki11on's 5 pageiTT,*18, my crobs examination
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16 'of Mr.-Crunkilton.. And" It, was deleted on the "basis ,of
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-Mr. Seigfreid's objection^'which was preserved.; .
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M R , CARR: 'It was anobjectibn that -we made at <the1time.
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I;don't ,recall' what w e fdid,, but I 'll stand.by jthe tobj ection =r
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now1since they ,obJectedV;tp;the analysis -of `the EPA in an
.earlier we'll stand'bn'this objection as well, ..Your Honor,-.
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THE COURT: Well my understending within `this, oontext
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that everything about EPA was'hearsay . .;' ; rj^
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and`the
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went out and'logically th ,last sentence'wp.uld go out. So,, ^;
is, no-one objecting' r*0<
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v TH COURT: .JMonsanto-Lstill wantsJthe EPA part of. the tablet
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came in becaiiise of some agency relationship and I would again
point out to/ the Court that it says'/here that/-the,' actual tests;
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/through ABC Labs, ,f-. -/./A./,- / ..
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/ . / THE COURT: I remember going through;tht.., /X .still think/
14 1hy L r this matrial !about tEPA :isrhearsay >*soX'think- itvs ,
' is
^properly cleaned up,.; ;//,//''/ A/'"/ *V:;n V A.
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L 4 ; 1f6 A/ , .MR .STEPHEN, SCHQpC^:," Your..Honor,^just/so. the Norfolk's
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position'on this is clear/ ,think /thtAthere is ino reason to * - ' ,-j ^ tt- `tf. J" " //, jJ'j."*, -, v /1-I't . >; ,,M' 1 ,- - , / -distinguish, In here between"th' results from- the 0v & H. or froto
: - i9 ,r ^> the vEPA/and that:we aubfnit'if /the other .results from ;0.. & H,: ' `?
20
/are golng:^ovbe^`rhad^^he other "results from EPA should' be-,
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on the original
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i THE COURT: Oi -A-K. stands in a completely .different / ;
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posture, than EPA. Okay;. AsAit is/cleaned/up, any objections
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MR. MUSQRAVE r..Other;fthan :those aireadyYmade. '
3. \ ,YTHE COURT: .Other than those already made.
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objection to anything ln.rthat paragraph? .Y L MR. MUSGRAVE:, .<Your Honor,- we would object, to' the'word .
\ 10 primary 'usedTin the first sentence of. page
there's been no
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tes timony other than 'cqncehtrations' of orthochlorophenoi^ or 'Y:
phenol compounds as being-anything-- . let me rephrase"that..
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There1-s-beenYno evidence that anything other than ortho- `-Y '
chlorophenol or phenol' compounds were the toxic materials that
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BAYONN,E .Nj: JOOIO FORMIL24
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consequence,' Your Honor.'--The witness haais given his opinion, .
he *s been.,cross examined''on the point and dioxin ,was m<entioned
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las having' teen 'in" the 'substance that he knew .about, and, I think
It stands on its own bottom.
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j,> . THE COURT: I 'm going to, leave it in/
Y' . -
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Y. THE COURT: '115-. '* - F -
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1 MR. STEPHEN SCHOENBECK: Your Honor, it's the same.ob1J^b.ib
2 but Norfolk would also make the objection on page 4. to theS;/ ,
3 last statement about as possibly as long as sixteen days
4 as being speculation. The Court has previously ruled on it,
5 THE COURTS I'll adopt my prior ruling.
6 MR.- MUSGRAVE: We'll Join in it.
7 THE COURT: So noted. 115?
8 MR. MUSGRAVE: On Exhibit 115 we object to it on the 9 basis that it clearly appears to be the statement of
10 Crunkilton, something-- well, the basis that it
11 constitutes hearsay..
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THE COURT: Where.?
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13 MR* MUSGRAVE: The whole thing.
14 THE; ^; rC'OURT:/. r,, ;O' kl>'ay(.i*J*Af.r;.e*'^. y,,oH<u Joining in that? 15 MR;/. STEPHEN. SCHOENBECK: I believe we made the same
16 objection to it:when;-.it ^came, up in the direct examination.
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17 THE COUpT;. rOkay., IDo you have anything to say on it?
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18 MR. CARR: No, Judge, it will be identified as a business
19 record and the witness has been here, subject to cross
20 examination.
21 THE COURT: I don't see any problem with it. I've read it
22 over and I really don't see any, so I'll deny the objection.
23 24 '
(Court, recessed for lunch at 12:05 P-M., to reconvene'at 1:30 P.M., at which time th . -
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BAYONN,E .NJ
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; following-proceedings were had, in open
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' court', in the presence and hearing of the jury:)
' r " / , r:_* s r- 1 `(Plaintiffs Exhibits 113-A and 114-A ... .. - * '' -\t , '1
were-marked for-identification by the.reporter.)
THE COURT: Okay, gentlemen?
MR. CARR: Your Honor, at this time plaintiff would
offer into evidence Exhibits 113, 114 and 115 and the
Clerk has copies of each of those exhibits for the jury.
I would like at this time to ask the -Court to admit
these into evidence and allow the jury to read these
exhibits.
THE COURT: All right. Any objections other than
the ones previously noted, gentlemen?
MR. HEINEMAN: None other than those previously
noted. Your Honor..
MR. STEPHEN SCHOENBECK: None.
THE COURT: Pine. Admitted over objections so
noted.
(Jurors read the exhibits which were passed
to each of them by the court clerk.)
MR. CARR: I think everyone is finished.' Wa'd
like to call with the.Court's permission, Mr. George Rush.
THE COURT: Pine.
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1 GEORGE WILLIAM RUSH,
2 called as a witness on behalf of the plaintiffs, having been
3 first duly sworn, deposes'and states as follows: .
4 DIRECT EXAMINATION
5 BY MR. CARR: 6 Q Would you state your name, sir?
7 A George William Rush. 8 Q How old a man are you, George,?
9 A 50. 10 Q What's your birth date,'please? 11 A February 8, 1934* 12 Q Are you a married man, Mr. Rush?
1 3 A Yes, sir.
1 4 Q Your wife's name? r
PENGADC..O BAVONN,E .NJ. 07001 FORMIL24 B
1 5 A Barbara.
1 6 Q And do you have children?
1 7 `A Yes.
1 8 Q And their names?
1 9 A .Glenn, Debbie and Greg.
20 Q They are all, your entire family plaintiffs in this
21 action?
22
A Pardon me?
23
Q Is your entire family, that is your children and
p .24
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yCur wife- and*yourself plaintiffs in this action?
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1 A Yes. 2 Q where do you live* Mr. Rush?
3 A I live about three and a half miles northeast of Sturg 4 Q And do you have a farm there?
5 A Vesf I do
6 Q And I know this picture doesn't show your ,farm, Mr. 7 *ush, but could you indicate where your farm is located with 8 reference to Plaintiffs' Exhibit 3, if you would? 9 A Well, it would be out north and east of this picture. 10 Q It would be, this picture, I'm on the north side of
his picture, and the top of the picture would be to the
11
south and east, so toward this corner?
12
13 A Northeast, 14 Q Northeast would be this direction? IS A More, yes 16 Q And how far from Sturgeon do you live? 17 A About three and a half miles. 18 Q And how long have you lived there, George? In that vici 19 A I've lived in that vicinity for the last twenty years, 20 Q And you've been farming there for that period of time,
21 laven't you?
22 A Yes
23 Q All right. Directing your attention to the 10th
24 %'
:>f January -of
1979,i
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youlive
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there, at
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that
time?
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1(' ' 1 A - Yes. , 2 Q And did you have occasion during the day and days 3 following the 10th of January '79 to go into Sturgeon, the 4 village of Sturgeon?
5 A Yes, I did.
6 Q On what occasion was that, George?
7 A Well, I just go in the normal routine of life', I
8 go in there quite frequently.
j.
9 Q ^ And why is that? 10 A Well, it's closest town to my area and I do all my
11 trading there, my children go to school there, and so forth. 12 Q Are you on the Board of Education there? 13 A That's right.
1 4 Q And do you also belong-- Do you have a Chanlber of IS Commerce? 16 A Yes, I belong to the Chamber of Commerce. 17 Q And do you do business with the various business 18 establishments, hardware stores, banks, post office, grocery
1 9 stores, things of that sort in Sturgeon?
20 A Yes> rl *do. o-;\ ^
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21 Q Now, when were you there ftha first time following
22 the spill of,|January 10th, '79? , r *
2 3 A I don t. remember the exact day, it was the next two ^ i , - i *;
2 4 or three days after the.spill, if X remember.
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1 Q JNow, did you have occasion to note whether or not
2 ;here was some chemical at parts of Sturgeon other than just on
3 :he railroad tracks on the crossing?
4 A Yes, I did 5 Q Arid what was the occasion for noting that?
6 A It was at the filling station. 7 Q And where would that filling station be located?
8 A It would,be just north of the railroad crossing at 9 )gden Street.
10 Q Whatkind offilling station was it at that time?
11 A At,that time it was a- Texaco,filling station. 12 Q And since that time has it been changed?
13 A To a ,Kerr McGee. 14 Q All right. And did you do business at the Texaco
IS station?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And were you in there-- well,, state please, what you
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18 >bserved with*reference to.the filling.station and the chemical?
19 'A ,1 was. there at that-/time and I noticed orangey material . ''' .` ',lf.f1 l ;)' ]'1
20 some kind' i4 n the 1 show.i1 J ' "i ^ *'
21
- - ' ) ; U ;f \*1`'i Q And where?
22 A It would be at the end of the, towards the end of
23 ;h@ driveway up past '' the pumps a little ways.
24 . Q And had you rioted that at any time before January.10th tr
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1 > 1979,that same kind of orangish color in the snow in the 2 billing station driveway? 3 A Never have. 4 Q Could you distinguishthat colorfrom, say, the
5 :olor or any possible gasoline that might be in the drive?
6 A Yes, I'm familiar with what gas would look like, 7 Lt didn't look like that.
8 Q Okay. And now did you also come to town from time
9 :o time to trade at these establishments that you've mentioned?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And could you tell -whether or not there had been dirt
12 jr material associated with the railroad tracks and the spill
13 Ltself through the town, distributed in various parts of the
14 own of Sturgeon?
15 , A . Yes, there, seemed to be more, I'd say mud or material
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16 >n.the streets from various vehicles that was used during the
17 spill.
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18 Q George,: as, a; farmer when you drive to town, do you
19 lave any occasion to bring mud intothe community?
20 A Oh, I use my vehicle on the farm. I drive through
21 aud occasionally, but most of it would fall off before I'd
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22 jet to town.-
23
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Q How many highway miles do you drive to get into town?
24 A Going to town?
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1 Q Yes. 2 A From where I live it's about three and a half miles. 3 Q How, Mr. Rush, in addition to your going into town 4 and seeing these observations, dd'd you have occasion to note
5 a flooding of your property sometime during the month of April
/-*6 of 1979?
7 A Yes, I did.
8 Q Does Saling Creek run through your property?
9 A Yes, it runs the full length of it.
10 , Q When you say it runs the full length of it, you mean
11 Saling Creek travels the entire length of your property?`
12 A 13 Q 14 A 15 Q 16 there?
That's right. '>:-*7 j r >f ' >. ' ,
And how. much*'distance would that be, sir?
1 1d/ say almost a`mile;,
And. hiow mu`crIh acr>ea^gie*' is .'there involved in that farm
BAYONN.E .NJ,
17 A 229 acres.
18 Q And has Saling Creek, or does it on occasion in the
19 springtime or other occasions.of .heavy rain, does it flood and
20 las it in the past flooded portions of your farm?
21 A Yes, it has.
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22 Q And how much of your acreage is subject to-- strike .
23 :hat. How much of your acreage in 1979 was subject to flooding,
24 . >y" Saling Creek? ..
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1 A Oh, approximately 100 acres. r . 2 Q Wow, Saling Creek, before it gets to your property
3 pes it pass through and around the city of Sturgeon? 4 A Yes, it does. \ 5 q That is you^redownstream of Sturgeon, is that correct,
6 ir?
7 A That*s right.
8 Q Wow/ did you note in1April sometime in April
9
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11 A Yes, ,it appearecl^to.be black.
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;. , if : : r ",4 Q And what part of:April was that, do you know, sir?
13
'A More'-so5in ;the latter days of April.
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14 Q Was your propertyflooded on two times in April?
IS A Yes, it was. 16 . Q And did you have occasion to,have come to your
17 roperty the people from the Missouri Conservation-Department, 18 Mr. Crunkilton and others who have testified here by 19 position today?
20 A Yes, I called them.
21 Q All right. Now,.kwere you present or did you go to the
22 art of your acreage that was subject to flooding by Saling Creek
23 n the latter part of April in addition to the first part, or
24 irsfe. flooded time in April?
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1 A Yes.
2 Q And about when did you get there toward the latter
3 part of April, George? . ,
4 A I'd say it must have been 27th or 28th, thereabout,
5 the last few days of April.
6' Q `And could you tell..was your land in flood at that time
-7
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*hen you got there? ,, 1 - f. 1>' 1 ,,/
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8 A When I was there, no.. I seen it prior to going down
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10 Q All right.' "And what did1you sec, sir?
11 A After I went to the creek area?
12 Q Yes.
13 A There was a lot of black residue in the grass and
14 pasture land. The creek itself was black. This residue on the
15 irass was more or less, I don't know, kind of an oily base of
16 gome kind stuck to it.
17 Q To the best of your knowledge, fir. Rush, had any
18 fcind of black oily residue been deposited on your property by
19 baling Creek at any time before January 10, 1979?
20 , A NO.
21 Q How much of your acreage at that time was flooded or--
22
3trike that. How much of your acreage at that time in your ...
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Judgment was covered with the black oily residue that you h`ave *
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1 A . Approximately a hundred acres,
2 Q Do you have or did you have cattle pastured in that 3 icreage at that time?
4 A Yes, I ,did,, ,- 1 ^ - - t-.\ *
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Q N h e r e 'would tale cattle go when the acreage itself
6 /as in actual1flood? 7- A h, : , 'r:
7 They'd go up to'high ground;
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ij.!J- : ' . - i, '' V-1 " ` '' ` Q Now, what did you do with relation to your cattle
, 9 Liter you saw your acreage in that condition that you've
10 Inscribed?
11 A I moved them, , . *
12 Q And v/here did you move them, Mr. Rush?
13 A ; I rented a pasture and put them on it.
14' Q How far away is that pasture?
15 A It's roughly eight, ten, eleven mile.
16 Q How much, or for v/hat period of time were yourcattle 17 Ln fact, on the acreage that is adjacent to or in the flooded
18 irea before you moved them, sir?
19 A Just a matter of a couple;of days.
20 Q Now, have you ever returned your cattle to that
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21 icreage, Mr. Rush?
22 A Never have.
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23 0 Not since 1979?
24 ' A ,Not since, no,
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1 Q when yOU moved them?
2
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3 Q Now, directing your attention to Plaintiff's Exhibit
4 93, which, is one of the "slides `which is the eight by ten
5 print of one *of the''slides'that has previously been shown to
6 this juryi Your Honor. Directing your attention to Exhibit 93,
` 7 do you recognize that, Mr. Rush?
8 A Yes, I do.
~
9 Q And what is that, sir?
10 A That was taken from the extreme north end of my
11 farm.
*
12 Q And could you-- well, I'll just show them, they've
13 seen it before. And do you recognize Plaintiff's Exhibit
14 #91, sir?
15 A Yes, sir, I do.
16 Q As a matter of fact, did you go with Mr. Crunkilton
17 and the others from the Missouri Department of Conservation
18 when they actually took these pictures? Were you there?
19 A I was with them, I don't remember if that was when
20 they took the pictures or not, but I was with them that
21 morning, or afternoon.
22 Q And what is Exhibit 91, sir?
23 A That was taken from the road, a gravel road down by
24 John Bowne's property where the water had washed across and the.
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1 gravel you can'see.it washed out-intothe field. 2 Q Were ^you; here when'Mr. Bowne testified? 3 A Yes f 1 was
/
4 Q And you heard him describe, does this picture show a 5 part of the property that John Bowne described as being flooded 6 ay this flood? 7 A Right# 8 Q And that would be Exhibit 91, Now, handing you 9 Plaintiff's Exhibit 90, which is another of those slide pictures, 10 four Honor, do you recognize that picture, sir?
II A Yes, 1 do
'
12 Q What is that, sir?
13 A That's the area uptown Sturgeon, just north of the
14 park area before it drains into Saling Creek.
IS Q And the water or the ditch that's-within, that's
16 shown in this picture, is that part of Saling Creek or is
17 :hat a ditch that leads to Saling Creek or what is that?
18 A That runs into Saling Creek. 19 Q All right# This is a ditch then that goes into
20 3aling Creek, is that-correct?
21 A - That's right, yes#
22 Q All right# And that's in the town of Sturgeon? 23 A Right. 24 Q Now, Mr. Rush, did you, after the flooding that took'
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1 place in April of '79, what did you do with this property that
2 you had previously pastured these cattle on, sir? 3 A Well, what I could of it, I plowed up and started 4 farming it* 5 Q And what kind of crops did you grow there?
6 A Mainly just soybeans and wheat. 7 Q Now, did you have, through your attorney, Mr.-
S Seigfreid, or with Mr. Seigfreid, did you have a person by the 9 name of Matthew 2abik come, onto your land and take soil 10 samples? 11 A Ves,^ X did. 12 Q And did you also have a veterinarian take samples 13 from various cattle of yours for Dr. Kabik's study or analysis 14 as well? 15 A Yes. 16 Q When did that take place, Mr* Rush? 17 A It must have been in June or July of 1979. 18 Q And did you learn the-- Why did you want your
19 cattle tested, Mr. Rush?
20 A . Well, I wanted to make sure nothing was wrong with
21 them. They was only there a short period of time and still
22 I thought the possibility something could have been wrong with
23 them, and I wanted to have them checked out and see what was,
24 you know. =
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2 to you whether or not your cattle were indeed safe to sell?
3 A They were safe, yes.
4 Q , Did you have.that reported to you?
5 A Yes.
6 Q When was thati Mr. Rush? 7 A That would have been later on that fall, I say
8 August or September. 9 Q , And who reported that to you?
10 A Mr.. Seigfreid.*
11 Q And did he give you the basis of that report? 12 A Yes,, he said after looking over the reports of 13 Dr. Sabik and turned out that he didn't detect any 14 detectible levels of contamination, so he said* you know,
IS he thought it would be safe to go ahead.
16 Q Now,Mr. Rush, were, you also advised at that.time
17 as the result of the soil samples in September or August or
18 September of 1979?
19 A Yes.
*
20 Q And did you grow crop-- Following the information
21 that you received from Mr. Seigfreid as to the tests done on you:):
22 cattle, did you then sell your cattle?
23 A Yeah, it was a month or two later I, sold them.
24 Q ' All'right.; Now, ^insofar as the crops are: concerned,
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1 rhat crops do you presently grow on the land? 2 A I still grow wheat and soybeans*
3 Q And do you grow crop on the land that you, that has 4 >een subject to the flooding? 5 A Yes, X do.
6 Q How much of your land was not flooded at that time,
7 ;hat is by land, I mean how much of your land that you could
8 >low or use for agricultural purposes or farming purposes, 9 low much of your land was not flooded at that time?
10 A I don't know how to answer that, it was' about seventy
11 lores of the flooded land that X was farming, and the balance
12 rould be out of that hundred acres up to 229 would be the
13 lifference*
14 Q Now, during the following season and during the
15 Summer-- strike that. During the summer of r79, or when -
16 m s it that you plowed up these acreage in order to grow
17 props rather than have cattle on it?
18 A I believe it was later on that fall.
19 Q In, '79?
20 A ' Yes.
21 Q Now,' during the,'"course and did you, in fact, plow up &rif
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22
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run your tractor over the land that had theretofore been
23 :ontaminated by the material in-'the creek?
24
Yes*..,;
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1 Q Did you work;that land.and have you v/orked that '
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3 ' ;A ' Yes.
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4 ' r,v Q ', - Could you' state whether or not .from time to time*
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5 you encountered dusty conditions in working that land? *
6
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8 * at,the time It was flooded, did you plow that land under? : 9 > iv.._'`a . Part of 'itr*vwhat jwas. suttable, .1 think# i ba,'1dX
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n \ Q . By suitableyou; mean material that was not flooded?
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A; Yes. .j..
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Q ,, And plowed the,rest, of it under?
14 : ^ .A Th rest'of. it I ;plowed under .
PENGADC.,O BAYONN.E .NJ.' 07001 FONIL14B
is r ." ,Q k Were there other occasions after April of 179 ,that
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16 . you noted that!the creek had.a,discolored condition?
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A. ' There, was one time, in the fall, toward fall of V79. *.
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* * Q \ ;All^rightrj .Cold, ypu describe that for us,'please?
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A ^Well,; it ^appeared; to ;me'; the x^ater was starting to
20 , gt blacker',;'darker agairiv ^and I was kind of concerned about
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21 it and I think t. hthat'time I called, the Conservation again.
22 -;
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;Q ," Was the, in the fall of '79 were. the. O.H., Material
- 23 1-
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people
still
4-; ;. in. Sturgebn
v-- " working in
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1 A Yes. 2 Q Did you have any familiarity with that operation? 3 Did you ever go down to see that'operation? 4 A Yes, I did. 5 Q And approximately how long after they started that 6 operation was it that, it was in the fall that you saw the 7 creek turn black again? 8 A I'm not sure just exactly when they started their 9 operation, but I do know they was in operation the biggest 10 part of the summer. 11 Q All right. And what part of the fall was it that 12 you noted the creek turn black again? 13 A It was, I'd say late August. 14 0 Now, Mr. Rush, that creek as It flows from
I S Sturgeon there, are you familiar with the other farms that
16 adjoin that creek or that that creek runs through that are
17 subject to flooding?
18 A Yes.
19 Q How many farms that you have personal knowledge of
20 are subject to flooding in the same fashion or similar to
21 the way your farm was subject to flooding by Saling Creek?
22 A I could name several in my area there.
23 Q Would you name them?
24 A' .There1s the Junior Jennings' property. Johnny Bowne'f
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1 A Yes, at that time, too.
2 Q I want to know if yon saw anytime after September 3 of 179--
4 A No, I never noticed anything--
5 Q Let me finish the question first.
6 A Okay.
7 . Q Did you see anytime after September of 1979 when
8 the creek turned black or became discolored, to your memory?
9 A H o.
*
10 Q Is it unusual for dust conditions to be created when
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12 A Yes, it.is. *,X mean, ryes, it is created when you farm
13 Q My question is is'-'it unusual for dust to be created
14
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when you farm? *
" * 1 11 * -
I S A No, it is not unusual. 16 Q All right. And from time to time while you're 17 fanning are there days when it's windy and days when it's not
18 windy?
19 A That's true.
20 Q When you're farming the property, you're tilling
21 the property and when you're creating dust, does this wind
22 blow the dust from place to place, Mr. Rush?
.**;
23 A Yes.
-1 ,X * r.
24 Q* Directing your attention to the odor that was \ $
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3
apparent or was present that's been described by others in the,
city of Sturgeon, could you detect or did you note a similar
odor .in the creek during the times that it was flooded
as you've described it?
A I remembered it more right after the water went
down. I really didn't got down that close to the water when
it was flooded.
Q A11 right; 'jT?hat, about 'the area that had been
: fi flooded with this material.
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A Yes * ' *" - , ir',: , *
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Q Did you note fa m odor in the area that had been '' "*'' * J
flooded?
A Yes.
Q And was this on your acreage?
A Yes
Q V7as this odor that you noted on your acreage that
had been flooded, was it similar to or different from the odor
that you smelled in Sturgeon?
A It wa3 the same.
MR. CARRs I think that's all I have. You may
examine, counsel
MR. HEINEMANs Thank you.
CROSS EXAMINATION
-7 ' . *`
BY* M'R*. HEINEMAN-:i
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1 Q .Mr. Rush; [my ..am, is Ken Heineman, I represent
2 Monsanto Company and I 'd ,like to ,ask .you a few questions
3 about what you've'just testified to. -,
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Q Now,,as I understand.,your testimony hre this
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10 (r A .That's right
u ; y\ y , Q" And there was no flood at that time?
v '- F`." f. 12 A No.
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Q Just the creek water ..got a little, dark.
A : That' a* right/' ' :r-
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15 Q And. you called, this Commission people?
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a -I think that's,who I talked to, yes
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9. Did they come out? .^
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Q Yes, they .did'1And didn' t they tell you that it was
20 . maple, s q u i r t s ? ; ' v / 'V"*. ^ 'V* ,_ * , .
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f 24 was -the .chemical. 't >.*, [(-,'. ,j( - -/
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Q. Not chemical. -It was maple squirts, organic, and
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2 : that kind of thing in t h -fall of *79/ ...
3
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.Now, ! don't know .how citified these jurors are.
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' - ' I w i f / Can you tell them .whatja*'maple isquirt is?-
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A I don't.iknow whethervl-can or not;, but I'll try./ T
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8 year and it^s the.droppings *out' of these worms. The way X
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10. Q . Okay.. That isn't what X thought, was a maple squirt,
11; ,but okay. When X was 'a.,kid,/ the, seed of the maple tree used
12 to come down with a little.thing on.the end and' if you got them
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13, when-they were brand new, you could squirt -them' ht'^somebody. . '
14 `A I was thinking/it was this worm with the web
`bAVNN.E .NJ. 07002 FORMI.L24B
15 'around it//,
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16 :Q - Okay. ;What the people from the ^Missouri Conservation
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17 told you was what turned the water dark in the fail of *79 was
18 tdiis worm problem. ` ; / / * -*r . * f ; / / "
19, .A It had to. do with "worms, I know'that..
20 Q Okay. ; Now, let:me get you baak to about the time
21 of .`the spill; here, 'Mr.. Hush.. You said that you saw the
22 chemical at;the filling^,station. ; /
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23 ,
A , Yes;
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1 A Well, I wouldn't say spattering, it looked like it 2 dripped on the snow. 3 Q Okay, a drip. 4 A Yeah.
% 5 Q And it was an orangish color? 6 A That's right. 7 Q And was it on the side of the station closest to 8 the track or farthest from the track? 9 A Closest to the track. 10 0 Okay, And what day was it that you saw that? 11 A It was the first day I went to town, there again 12 the second or third day, I just couldn't remember exactly what 13 day it was. 14 0 Was work under wav on the clean up at that time? 15 A I'm sure it was, 16 0 And you said you saw dirt distributed through town, 17 now I want to ask you about that. 18 A Okay. 19 Q Now, this dirt that you saw distributed through 20 town, are we talking about great big piles of dirt? 21 A No, what I was talking about just seemed to be more 22 dirt left from wheel tracks and things like that than usual. 2 3 Q Okay. And there usually is dirt in town, isn't there? 2 4 A Not that much.
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16' v ^ 0 ` And you used to use that for farming, but you now .;.;, ,
.17` - VJust keep it in1grass for grazing and hay? '-
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PENGADC.O,,BAYONN,E .NJ. .07002_ FORMII,4 ,B
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Q, That has, nothing to db with the, chemical spill,
'22 / does it, it1s just the topography of the land that ,makes , ,
23 -s ;i t .unsuitable?', , `
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And there you used ,to keep cattle, approximately
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8 Q ; ;All right.
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the spill?; v
How- many did you have at. the time.,of '<
10 A As' I rmember X had 34 head; on the creek at that time
11... .12 13 14
Q J<^"n#":*O'?k*>Jaj`Ty`.^ .T!h-en ,o-y,nve-ran io1fVf',*, anil y" ou had1 33:^. is that
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15 Q /. I think, didn't you tell us once-before that one
16:* of them had run off, that you lost; onetsomewhere?
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19
th north frn at the time of th spill. " ,
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Q' Now, you Identified these photographs^of Saling
22 ' Creek as representing what the .creek- looked like .as it ,
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flowed past your north farm in the latter part *,of April., of1
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1^79, Is that righi:?L`'. .
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Q Ajirll 27th, X think was when the Conservation people
3 came out there.
4 A Either 27th or .28th, right in that area, I don't 5 remember exactly,
6 Q And you went around with them and.showed them the
7 parts of the creek they should look at?
8 A Well, I went with them for a while.
9 ftQ ; f All right.- An^thcy* took some pictures of the
10
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creek?
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11 A ,,/ 1 guess-they d i d !I don't remember them taking them
12
but evidently'they di.d.; : 13
Q Okay. And on the 27th of April of f79, the creek 14 was in this condition, is that right, that's shown on
15 Exhibit 93?
16 A I would say that's about right. 17 Q Okay. So as I understand it, it had flooded twice
18 in April before these fellows came out?' 19
A Once.
20 Q Once. 21
A Before they came-- Well, they came out, the last 22
flood is the one I'm talking about. It flooded again about 23
the first week or two of April. 24
Q Okay. Now, as.a matter of fact, sir-- and the Jury
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1 has seen this information contained in some exhibits produced .
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by the Missouri Conservation Commission-:- that you were
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advised at that time, were you not, to take the cattle off
4
of that?
5
A - Off the^creeko A ..representative from the state
6 veteriinary.`st*o-pp.1edi' by`11tJhe house,\ talked to ray wife, didn't .
7
talk to me, and advised us at that time be best to move the
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Q Ail right. "Arid that was, and you moved them on about
10 the first of May, right?
11
A I moved them as soon as 1 could get a place to put
12 them, Just a matter of a day or two there.
13 Q Right. But it was right after the 27th of April
14
when the Missouri Conservation Commission people came--
15
A It was all about the same time.
i,
16 Q And right after that the state vet came and you
17
moved those cattle on or about the first of May.
18
A Yes -
19
Q And did you fence it off?
20
A . There's no way I could fence It off. 21
Q. So you didn't fence It off?
22
A No,
23
Q Now, did that, do I understand that there was a
portion of this flooded area, the place that was flooded in
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Q But'you did farm seventy acres that had been , ;
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13 after April of *79? ' J^ 14
A ; Yes, I-grew crops on it. 15 Q Okay.' And you grew'crops on that property,1so you '
PCNGADC'o., BAYONN,E- .KJ. 07001 FQB 'IM 'LIAB
16 did farm'that, portion that had been flooded t - 1
17
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*JQ*\ Now, -you told the-' jury here this afternoon that -
you learned from Mr. Seigfreid the,results.of what the. ^ ;:
.veterinarian/report was and the results of wnt Dr*. Zabik's;
report was, is that right? . :'A. . That1sfright. ;: -122
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.Q .Vieila\not the -'state vet, X don' t think.
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ir, ' '-A I'm'talking about a. veterinary from Mexico, Missouri.
12 y l- Q ' Okay . You are talking about a veterinarian from *v.
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16
cattle. . k ' . . r i,' .j 17 ; A- No, h e 's the one 'that tested my cat11e ..
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; Q He tested the cattle.
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All'right. ' And. did h .make a report o f 'what, he
21 ^found? j: .y'1 ^ *_
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A" X;think he sent that, he told me .at the time it - ^
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A No; I already^ had the. cattle moved when he examined '1
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He took fat tissue I .thinki or^ some ki/nd^ o p
from the fat. ax*ea by the `tail.
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,Q ;/ And this r-Is the. Mexico,.- Missouri* vet? .
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16 results of, that examination?
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that he-did'make, that report to Mr i/Seigfreid?
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PENGADC.OBAYONNE* /KJ. ^07002 FORMtL>24Q
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No,'no.
Junderstand iti to
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Q Cause1wasn't there ,a time'in June1of *79 didn't '
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3 Dr, Zabik himseif come out to your property and take biopsies
:.4 from.your'.cattle? . ; s **.
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7 ` ^ -A ; He took soil samples. / .
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-8 Q . v:Took'soil `sampies. ' ~
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.was the vet there at.,the 'same time?:L,;-
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A. No. ' ' - ':1 * ; ,
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13 , Q So the^ taking, of the,, samples ^from the cattle ,by `the' 14 yet`occurredI.at a time different from-when Dr. Zabik was
PEKGADC.,O BAYONN,'E .NJ. -0>00i FORlIM.L24
15 there? -
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' 17 \ Q ; ,And /it'.s- your, testimony, sir,- that Dri Zabik took
18' .19 ,20
only soil`samples and did riot take any .biopsies from your ,
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^ Q Now*--' and ;it';s.further your testiiaony here today. /, .it
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in this courtroom that Mr; Seigfreid told you t h e r e s u l t s o f a I
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A' ' Over:the telephone, yes.' *
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i .' . Q Over the telephone. And there's dust no doubt In,you
-2 mind about that, is that correct?
. 3' .4 ; '
A 7 That's correct/ 71 . `
Q"1, Now, did* he teli you'these results.m the last
5 ` couple'of.week>s o*r was It back in Jun, ,,e or July? 6V 1 ;.A' . It was, June or July.
7 V ; ;'.Q' Of L';79?
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Q;. ,He didn't tell you those-results, after Bill Kemner *
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testified here in court,- did he?
,
<ii: J, ls,Ay - No.^ I saw th^'Vesults aftOr that, but he'told^ me
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12
prior to! that also.
I; ,
13
-V 1" ' ' / - / / 7;/. J - 7 - .
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' v ''J" Qv1 Lot m e*a,,a k, ' you a little; 1bit*'m>. ore arbout ''' Dr. Zab, *ik`fc7 .
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J comingout there, sir. -How did he happen to come to your
" , 1 . _' '
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15
^property?
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16 A Mr.'Seigfreid made the arrangements.
17 , J
^ Now, Mr. .Rush,;in;fact,'you, went-,arourid with that
18 Dr. Zabik when;he"took samples from Bill. Kemner's farm?
19
A v.' Yes. . - - r'
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20 -
\ ' Q \! And -he took samplas'from Bil1 ,Kemner'd' cattle? , ,:
21 "A Dr. Zabik didn't take samples from Bill"kemnervs
:22
^cattle, .,
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' '`;A\ The same vtyi ws telling'you about from Mexico.
3.
5 '
q Were you'there-when that happened?
6
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Okay... Was- Dr .VZabik there, at th time those
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samples were taken? :
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' --
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The biopsies ,'from the cattle? '
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13 y .'A No'.
14 y Q' And you went to.Mr. Bowne's .place?
15
``1 -a *.; Yes.' \ ; y-
y.
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3 16 Qr .And thereDr. Zabik?took some soil samples?
1 17 A * 'Yes...- , - v - v.
. ..1
18
i- '
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Q- * And .you were there-when that occurred?
,
19
y .a Yes.y. y - ^
y
20
Q ./ And you. were^ there when pr . Zabik took soil samples at
21
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^ 23
a yiesv/v,
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tvs Q '- *:An'd as;:l-understand- your testimony, he didn't take
, '-24
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iT* tany biopsies from-thereattie?M
pengadco,,. bayonke. .nj. 07002 .form-jl iab
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Q. He didn't .participate in that, and while he,was there
3; ^that was not done*'but that .Was, done on some other "occasion?
4" A , It".was done about the .saAe time but''not on that day.
5 ' Nowy do you remember'when your^deposition was.
6
'taken*<KrV, Hush? .
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8
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.Q, .,;., I, n/l`^thJi's case.". Ai\nd
your^ dne;p'ofsirt. ion-
was
taken ^in`'
1 i ' \ r ` t w` ' l
9
1982, isn't that right, sir?.
10 A' ' That's rights *
y;"
PENGAOC..O BATONNtEjNJ.' iOOIO FORMIL_yB
n Q > The 6th day of May of'1982.^ .' 1
12 A That's right 1 ;
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13
' ' Q And. it was :at, my law firm.'s; office here :In Belleville\
''
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'Wasn't it? , , v.
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^f'rom tm;y
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took
yo'ur
deposition
.17
' .A >Yes. , . 'F Jy:' `.- ' -,'
,, ' :'
18 Q"- H ^Remember;'that?^-. V
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,Q :r*> Bottom of*page, 187l counsel.' Now,-you remember
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\wheh that deposltipn^wasytaken^1Mr. Rush, and there was a
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court *reporter there? ,J , .*, '1j*' - ' 1r '/ =-/.
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.Suretdo.'y, " /
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And you were put under oath? ` .''"T. * *
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Q , *You were sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth,
5
;knd nothing but the truth'so1help you God that day, weren't !
6
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Q . Do you remember this question being asked: Was your
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farm ever tested to determine/Whether 'it was contaminated?
Answer:'. We took tests,/'yes- 'Remember that?
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Q \-j Question: Who took; the tests?'' Answer: Dr- Zabik. ,
13 `
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Remember that?L
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v, a '/ yes- ,,-;r'-
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" QT,'r>i/Qiu.e/sstii/on: ^4D'vi*d<**y`you-eveic*>. heahr/-tLhe results of his.. J r
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tests?' iAnswer :'/'.Noy. -air-ii/Remember^ that ?.
J 17 "A `i"'"';,,[roiat'!is ^rlghuiiiSi/V''l/ fr,i. -V '-.L; r'
18
19 ..*20-
21'
i Q ^ .Question: _Did. you eyer aisk anybody what the
V . -v i ii/-j ; t V`iv- .- - results of.his. tests were? Answer: My attorney has all that.
' -'c`i * / ^ '// *
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Remember that?' ( ",-v ;fT' '. ,- -, '.^
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Question: Didn't you want ,to know'whether your '
, ;24
landjwas contaminated? Answer: Yes- -Remember that?. .. .
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-ENGA.DC.,O BAFONN,E .NJ. 07002 FOR'M1L24
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figured if tie wanted me tojknow, he'd tell me. '
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:.'.Q Now, I understand,1sir;'that-in May of 1932--
- f'
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. May
of 1 9 8 2 / Mr. Seigfr.eid had hot told you the results of those
V,
6 tests,1 is that right? . -,, . ' * : ' V '\ '
7' , 3 *A . At that time'sir,. 1 was mistaken. And after I went
8 -home, X: contacted my attorney and asked,him 'if I 'd ever seen
9 any .of those `tests and he1showed them torme; and ;I had seen
10 them prior. to f.that, but\I had forgotten at, the time I vias 'r
11 , giving that .deposition1. *!\ .; r^ '. : ,j .
12 Q ^ - So at the time you were put under, oath in May of
13 "'tj - ^ jjP'*aF^ t V ;i,, -* i'vi ( 1 wj ,, " A k 1982 -you 'forgot,;1whether- or'not'.you had.ever,,learned tlhe .
14 ' U iV J - i 'U i . S ' - i * *> > >' '*
results, of a test of your property for the presence of toxic .
15
.
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!ohemicala,rls,;-that'righty";Sir>? ^
`
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A .^[Af^tiat; t i m ^ K didn't .ever remember seeing them, nb.
17 Q .Or ever hearing.them either?. / '
fBtYONN,C .NJ
' 18 1 kk
19
A Q
I couldn't remember anything1about them. 1 ,
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4
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Let me ask you this further,'on, page 188, counsel.
- 20> 21
Prom what I Just read to you. 'After you answered:,, I figure
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if he wanted me to know he1d tell me,' this was asked. Do
' 22`,
you think it Was contsunihated or nbt?, .Answer: I Tm'sure it;;is
23
fRemeni)er th4,at?
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1 A ; Are you rspeaking about the soil or the cattle?' *;**.,
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Welli, we! were; talking abbut,the soil here. .
'4 - / "
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All right, In m y m i n d I;think It lay I still think
3'
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Qf. But'at this 'time'do you;remember now giving this
5. 1 deposition when you said you thought your "soilfwas
, 6 contaminated at that time?
" ^V
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'7 .
' A Yes. ' ,-
1 / ; . :
Jg J Q
Question:' You think your attorney allowed you to
91
-continue 1
*tjo ,farm
th4,a',t*
'Vcojtn*taminf ate' d
-
pasture? f
1*
Answer: .
'Yes.
' 10 Do you remember ,that?
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1-2 ` : 13 .
;' . IX n ,;f,./ t-*) j\ Ajif ' 1 i : ';j--v ',. A jLAt* thatvtime;,Vs'irV^ there was" no iinformation I ^ ,,t L -
remember, that. wo.uid yerlfy .plants picking up contamination r' .:.! *(r/ jf "-7v'V -K;.*.;* fvf .
through 'thersoil
' 14
isf i
7 ;
t. * :f-ypi ivU J V
Q So itvs your statement that-
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time your deposition was..taken? 'r /
which time? -At the
14 -
1
;
pengadc.'o. 'savonne, .nj. _otoo formil ai
16.
; A' As I remember^,yes. ". . .
1
17 .. ^ ' Q. . At the. time your'deposition was taken,"It*s your
18`
; 19
20 21
. ' 22" P ' - ' 2 3
testimony that, you didn't know or you didnlt/have any reason
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to believe. that the plants.would take, up the contamination
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but '-1 1hadn11 had'any information,, anybody;tell;r that that- *;
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could be posrsHib*le for the plant to take that upV '
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Q. .f Xfll come back to that In a minut, Mr. Rush^ I 'd-
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I ^like to continueVwith this deposition'portion I was reading.
;2 After i asked, do .you think your attorneys allowed you to , /
3 continue,to'farm that contaminated pasture. Your answer was
4 yes.. Question: Why? /"Answer:*'' I had to have an income,
4 . ^ If, '*.1
5
I don't know why. '
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6
7
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of
the
reasons''-,J* ^:y,eVsr v
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Q ' Now, it's your testimony/that the results of the
8'
*'i( ^" ',!l`',,``n,f" f .**' f,`v,^ ]*."f
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'tests1.from your--.^ from/ the..veterinarian from Mexico- were
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turned over to Mr. Seigfreid and that-you then, and they were
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give"n to'^Mr-J;>' Z' al3''ik?W*,`"-'`. -
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" ,A ^ iThat*srthe,way; T^;understand it.
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12-;. j - ^ ' ,L Q And you found out the results jfrom what Dr. Zabik did^
13 ' /is that Tight ?
^
_
14 ` J'1V A / 'To^ Mr. 'Seigfreid.' ^
. 1"*f
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,Q Page.l97# counsel, line 10, Do you remember when
16 your deposition was taken, Mr/ Rush, this.question being
17 * asked of,you>. Question,:/ .What was the purpose of having your
18 ' cattle examined by this veterinarian from .Mexico? Answer:/ !
19 ' He was attempting to test for' chemical residue. .Remember -
20s, ^ t h a t ? /
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21
'A That's VightV.^
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22 ' ' I '. `1 . ' , ' ' . '' 1 i
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Q - Question: -To .determine'^whether your cattle were '.
23 *
., 1 1..1
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injured'by. the chemical .spill, is-that right?
24 , A " > Yes.
. ( , ;. , , v. .V;
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Q - Ansyer; IVpresume`, yes* Question: What were the
V\2 results-of his test? "Answer': . Never Really ;heard ,the results,.
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y*o^ur -don-'*rt\
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know
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right. kno.w'' whether'
.youj r
cattle
4 k.
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were'contaminated or not? .Answer: No, sir, I. don't. May
5 of 1982>rdo Jyo^,^remember 'yhat)<;testimony? ,
6 1
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V Q ^v\f\Bid/-you-yyer.asiic^any.oye.whether your cattle were
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*
found to be contaminated? >Answer: ..There again, my attorney
> ,, i. v * ifft r v i'{*.v') t - / 1
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-
had'this information. ..I figured'if he wanted me to know,
he'd tell me. ,Remember ^that, sir?
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Q - Now, you just;told the jury today, iidn't you, that/
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you believed that you'got the'results frpm Dr/ Zabik and,
' , . .
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therefore, you. don't think your cattle were contaminated, so .
Jt 15 /
?6
-you went ahead.and told them, is that, right? 9'* a.*1' < /J n J i * ^, , Je L't.^fr ^ ^' *' J1" .| * *" ,
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-17 -if/ , < ,A*r' 1i.T'ha,.-t,',*s1f,r*i*ght..>' V,4; ,r ^'. ;
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. Q That's-what you|re telling the.jury here today?J
18 ,,V A It .was only oii that contaminated pasture approximately
19
;Ltwprd a y s . ^ - : ;
20 ,
Q, , etme.refer-.you again to your depositiph, page 197>
21 `C .22
.counsel, taken in May of 1982. . You think your cattle^ were
4
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contaminated? Answer : In my mind, I know they werey yes ',
23 * ,
" , '' 11
- , . ... -
^ T,
Question: ' How were^ they, contaminated?' Answerr 'By, through
24
;rs r**,>'i
V'the -
igjri.ar's:'sA;'
f1r' om *
'th,e''F.5c' h\*.e*m/i/iKca,l' .>-
Q`uesittii>-o4.n!:';f
Y;'o7Vu
think ''
tlhey *
had
-"V
' ' - 133
*
>ENO*OC.,O D*YONN,E .NJ.',07002- FORMIL240
frf''/iV tisfa*.
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.dioxin In them? Answers I think it's possible. Questions
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Weil, di*d**'''y-\ou sell th^os'*ie'; */catt>l\es?y ' Ans-wers .Yes,sir*
3
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.Remembe/r*. f.t. that -rytJbstimo'Nn^.ry*?\'VV--*J,> Si-`;fA i '* `
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.Q " Question;. What'uses?'did .you sell them for?-
i '
Answer: 'I doii't} know'/''T just11took ,,them 'to an '.auction and they
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, *.-** , .
Lwere sold at,tauction. Questions r.What-happens to cattle once
thSyare sold at auction?' Answer: Eventually they"are
slaughtered ^ Question:/ `They ^wind;,up.-as steaks and hamburgers
10 and things like that? ; Answer: It's quite likely* Remember \
11 '1- . `A r ^that?
:: . ; 1 ": *.,
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12
A , That18 .right, -sure do. '
^
13 i *
I*
Q J Question:, There could be" stieaks sold in stores with
14 ' dioxin from your .cattle* Answer: Yes, sir,,it Could be -
15
^pos^sifb,le*.
Question:
*
"
People
j' 1 ,
rmigh-t-.hav^e
been^ eatinTg hamburger
16 1 '`
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made from your cattle that had dioxin in them? Answer: Yes,
17 sir. Question: You sbld' those cattle.knowing that?
18'
Answer: -J Yes;,' sir. ' Remember, that?. , ? ,j r " /
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19
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21 .
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23
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A. rI said;it could be possible,* I didn't.'know.
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>^Q - Do you remember these questions^ and'answers; Mr*
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Rush,, page 200, counsel?; I meant'to. ask you, why. did you go |i
.head and sell your cattle even though you believed ;fthat /they
were contaminated by dioxin and that those*cattle-would
eventually be made, into steaks and hamburgers and.eateh by `
? 1 ** *J
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people wh'oMPtherebyv:b eating the dioxin? -.Answer:, I
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thr_ou.g-h- "ry. o1u ,were
goin*g,.t.o*
be
-
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contaminating food.in the supermarket? Answer:: ^That was his '
19*
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recommendation.
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was that ,J
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me ^
nd ,
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: io based on? ' Answer:/ do not know. .Question:/, n^ others^ J.
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s' '1 , reason you had /for selling the cows? . Answer:, No, sir. ' ,./.K ^
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r !2" Do you remember that testiindny,1Mr,. Hush?
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, 13
A^; hat '.''right.';
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14 , f,; s. |j:ii'-* y '. P , * " g11*P * ,r.--, 1 * 1 L Q ` So as- I understand/your testimony;here today, sir, "
15 you toid the Jury a few-minutes ago that you had n reason
16
; 17V
to believe at this., time .that grass grown on the ^contaminated land would be contaminated--- p ' *-; \ .
18 !, ' . HR,: CARR: He's n o t said/that at all. f
;i '/l9 `'l p* f /A 4 'didn't-'say:,,.that-.,
2 I-\
1OT 'HEINEMN : r I -think he did, .I"think ;the record
21.
,r; .,will speak for i t s e l f _ p
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">;1 V 22 '^ ri \\ J MR.; "CARR:y The '"grass was contaminated; : /, p '
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P y A. : vi sure donft'remember saying/that.
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'} J ; : Q . . In'the, deposition you. certainly said; it- was,<'dldn^t.ou?^'/'
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MR, CARR: And he certainly says it today that the
2 grass was contaminated.
3
MR. HEINEMAN: I think the record will speak for
4
itself, Mr. Carr.
5
THE COURT: Go ahead, Mr. Heineman.
6 Q (Mr. Heineman) Now, you sell crops as well, don't
7
you, sir? 8
A That's right.
9
Q Do you know whether they're contaminated or not?
10
A I don't believe they are.
11
Q Do you know whether they are or not?
12
A I suppose it's possible, but I don't know.
13
Q Never bothered to find out?
14
A How would you find out?
15
Q Well, how would you find out? Have them tested,
16
like Dr. Zabik?
17
A No, didn't test no crop, no. But I never have
18
heard of anything to the fact that crops will pick up the
19
contamination through the plant.
20
Q So you don't think that crops will pick it up through
21
the soil either?
22
A I don't think so, no. I use chemical every day
23
on the farm on corn and whatnot and it doesn't go up into the--
24
Q You use anything for root worm on your corn?
- 136 -
PENGADC..O iiAVONN.E .NJ.' 07001 .FOBMI:L-24B
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3 A JI don11 know how. it Works, ho , I. know i use/ it
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5 /root to.killr t,heV.wo1rm?'''l-
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T
/ . Q . Now, Mr. Rush,,,you told> the .Jury that you send your
-8 > ohildren^to ;soho61`ih^3turgeon, i s 'that right?-.. ' / .
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10 " Q'` "'.Now, Sturgeon ls four miles away from your house
11
approximately?
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miles
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Three arid a'halir to four. ^ There's a school in 1
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;Oentraiia, isn't there?;'
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1 , :Q, And: that1s about six or seven'miles away ? ;
^7 - .
17
Yes.'
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18
7 * - Q' ;And you couldlS0ndyour;kids.,to, Centralia, couldn't;-
19
6u ?a
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20 .A I probably could, but I chose'not to; '
21 \ , Q J; Chose to send your kids to ./the1SturgeonVschpol . >
22 /
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;And your boys , I, think,; you .have two/of`them, that were >t , * 7
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sixteen and they; could1drive, correct?J ^
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A /1'' Yeah, .but 'that" costs money/.
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Q' . So that,- let Is..say--
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Sunnydale,Academy is pretty;. '7
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hear where you live, isn't it?
; ?,
3
. ;A 7 Ys, ^that/.s^a Seven day. Adventist. Church, School, 1'/ 4
, Q And you;don't,want your children t o :go to the Seventh
5, ` Day Adventist. School? . ,7 1
7 ' :rT;^.7.
6' '
A. I'd prefer them not-to. ; . --, ' :7,
7 ; Q ^ `And as I understand, there's- a.-bus that takes the
i8' kids to the Centralia school', isn't.there?
9 *-
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A- That' is correcti1 ^
.7.- ;
:7 .
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10. Q Would that cost you anything?- .
11 A I'd have to pay tuition* ; /
12 ' Q .So to-avoid-- ',How much is the tuition at Centraila? ;
13
A I'really don't know*" At our school it's Eighteen
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Hundred Dollars .a year per;pupil. -
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A r That's right- "`7
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17 Q, So you've got people t hatjpay Eighteen Hundred^
18 . 'Dollars a'year to send their kids to school, at Sturgeon.
19
~ A 7 Yes;. _ ., _, , 1
u- 7 7`
20
; ; Q ' Do. you encourage that on the Board? 1
7'
21
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`..A.' Yes* r
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23 J P
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and ;th' school liVjehtmlriated bya m ^ ' 4 - V 1 o a W a a I i1 i 4 '` " ''A a m 4* e t n 4
.1
dioxin
*24
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11
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.believe,-the-!whole area ig. .
>\ j` ,vf ..---si sf\*
^ -- -1 and phenols,,'. Mr,
11ir`
.Rush?
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PNG4-DC..O BAYONN,E .NJ., 07001 FORMI 'L24B
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Q r;But/ in spite of that, belief,'you siend, your.' kids to ^ ; 2 '*
the Sturgeon school e v e n vthoughvyou could send, them to
|i' .JiL
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'. 3
/Centralia, and as a member of* the School Board you encourage /
14
people t o pay tuition to send their-children to the1Sturgeon
` 5`Z
school, is/that .right*vsir? . .,
7 . , ' ' / .^ >
6
~A -`A
// - .A-. .Yes, we have a northern school of Clark that .doesn't
7
have a high sehooX,and,. we try to attract;those kids down to /
' 8. ,- - - ' * 1- i*" r-v^ "Vv >j
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otf'school fpr the tuition and.extra enrollment.
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' 17 :
/ A; ,' They go to Moberly;; '>/ '
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Q Now, as I understand it, Mr. Rush, you believe your,
'14. < ; ^
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viand is contaminated by this-floodingv ^is that right?
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17 ' ` c/ */
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" V ,Q - And you think that dust has what, got'dd:ioxin in it?r
. 20 -s, i.f l:\Al
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.21 \'V,A.->J.}.Jj{A5 rr'I|vv:bvellev.-^;.7e,i.i',^h'^-r"-ivAl. /f. j Vi >.
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c Q"..iv .And'/ypU; thirik/tthhaat iduusst has blown out four miles 1\ `22 -;
-,/:V \*c?. f'.'//Vi'V.'V/A'v i f . - .
from Sturgeon,to' your farm.to/contaminate;it?. ;
$ : ;/, -iL' AA-a/v-'wM ITscun'riveiA .dov''./1thiiynikiVn'iss/oaT;./., . .`V : Zu'1*' ' *' - '
24 -'
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Q .' And you. go ahead and sell .the ,crops off that farm,. ,
a
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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9
10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20
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'24
don't you?
A Everybody else does, too.
Q Do you have any Idea how many tons of material were removed from that spill site in the first two and a half
months of January, 1979?
A Not really.
Q Do you have any idea at all? A I know it would probably be a large amount*
Q You know they were scooping up and filling up
gondola cars and putting the waste material in thousands of
barrels and sealing them and sending them off? Do you
remember that?
A Yes, I do.
Q Now, did you know, Mr. Rush, that the ERA had
agreed to test homes in the Sturgeon area for contamination, test the air in them, did you know that?
A I knew that theyhad air samples out.
f,
S. L
they had one on the school ground.
In fact,
Q Did you ever, ask Mr. Gilmer of the EPA to come
out and check out your place?
A No. Q Now, the jury has learned today from a memorandum
which they've got in evidence, which they've read Just a
little while ago-- no, that's not right, let me straighten
- li0 -
PENGAOC..O BATONN,E .NJ. 07001 FORMIL14B
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1 that out. The Jury learned today from the deposition of
'? Mr. Crunkilton, arid I'think'you were here^wheh the
3 ' . deposition of Mr. Crunkilton was read3 weren't you, sir?
4
5 6 7 *
A `, . Yes-
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Q',; - . Did you hear ;it ?
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Q Okay. And you heard Mr. ;Ci*unkilton say that when
; 8 he went to the scene in"March/of 19.79*;March 17th, I think,
'9 he came.back to Sturgeon? ; / .'^r / * / . 1
'10
11 ^ '
1
A '' Yes, .
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Bec(ause-,h. e, 'dr ,heard
about
w -t
the. Kemner.ponds7
'
12 , ' -A A -Yes., / / ". 'V
' '
"
`\
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1 3 .,
Q * And in <March' of *79 when he came back,.Mr./Crunkilton
14
of the, Missouri Department.of Conservation knew and was * ..
15 L rM
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informed..tHat'/.there^Hy.as[2,3.,7,8-TCDD In the tank car.
16
17, ,
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A.r.^.That vright At least'X think, he did *anyway.
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19
20 21 22
23
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W.J Whe*n
.you _
sraw
`hIim^^iJn
A' pr.i*l
of *^ % 4^,
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A^' 1 I''don't remember it. : /-! -
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Q. You don't" remember whether he did?
:,A\ . Remember him. telling me; ho. '
Q- He may have,?>v
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A ;. ,Hep may have,pbut I donlt, remember1it.
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l - Q ' Now/ Mr. Rush/you.filed suit in this case in 1979
2. didn't you, sir?
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/A - 'Yes. _
1
' 4
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\ , ,Q : /And you filedisuit,initially, infBoone County,
5;
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: '/' ' Missouri* didn't,
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you, sir?
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A 1 ihat's rightV .V / ' ' ,1- *.
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(Defendant Monsanto's .Exhibit #27 was marked
^
8 for 'identification.)
'9
A 4 L N o w M r . Rush,. I'm- going to let,your attorney look
10 '
at this exhibit before I .ask you about it, but I'm going to
^
,, ., j-
,, i,
*
H show you a copy of the. petition that-you filed in Boone '
121 County H Missouri/ih^July'of11979. But first, I'd like your
13 x .lpj.lv-?i . / , i r a x ? / : . ....
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attorney
to idok
at j>-;iVt4 / .-.>1;'!-/4"-
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Carr J'iexamiried iexhibit' # 2 7 0
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;;'' .J;;? *.MR,;r CARR(' }ifiiiTTt r o u g h M r 'Heinemari
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4- 7-(-Mr. Heineman) ,Let me hand:y'ou what's been marked
{i
arttiwuoj tboto
17 i .as Defendant Monsanto ',.s.Exhibit #27, which I-can tell you is
4* z o*
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a c*opy .okf,' the J;petition. fili ed on rbehalr*f of "yo_uv and your
19
''
family and "served on Monsanto Company, and ask you, direct
,20:
21 * K " . '
* ?`22> 23,
iyour attentiJon , to-.Counrtf-.l..t.. > Hav,,e>'you -e..v. er see^n' t:his document
before,-Mr. Rush? , ,
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have.J'
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-24 '' 'k ^of-this.,.petition, arid lt's a claim against .Monsanto1Company,
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suing Monsanto, Company1^is because there was dioxin in:the /-
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tank car being1transported/by.Norfolk ,and Western-Railway .
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'1. Ij.Q';!V :Now ijin r)this;lawsuit; sir,, there/are some'things..A
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alleged(against/Monsanto Company , are' there hot,`sir?
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that case, ,in that/lawsuiti every'single bit of information
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that you knew at that t ime,that supported your claim?
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/X mean,fevery detail, every fact? You didn't include all of f
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Q / Well,, you didn't say; anything in there,/did you,
about the veterinarian that ..looked, at your cattle? -
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' MR. CARR: - Yolir Honor, counsel'knows1'that, you- don-'t ' . '
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plead evidence. ,in thse complaints. This is unfairj I ' object' to-this, kind:of cross.examination. ..Th lawyer
'rprepares .that and We. don ft plead all kinds-.of things
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- In Complaint, asJ'Mry Heineman.ought to know*
MR. HEIHEMAHV 'Exactly.. ,That's Just What I!m `
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THE COURT: Gentlemen, approach the1bench,and bring
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( V U ' C ^ ^ s s i o n ^ ^ ^ t i t h e bench between counsel and
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\ ' THE COURT: Ladies and gentiemn of the Jury, wefll ;
*Ltake' a .short; break to consider a matter in chambers. ^ '
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(The ,fllifing proceedings Were, had, in chambers y
with Court and. counsel present, .and out of .the.,
presence and hearing.of the jury:) ,
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M R ,,CARR: ,My objection-was that he's charging
this witness'with:a failure'to put into evidence of what
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Zabik found and what the veterinarianfound for'2abik, /
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I suppse,, that'h hasn't alleged in the Complaint, hd,.
` it would be improper to.cross examine what he didn't alleg
in the .Complaint because he's not supposed to.allege
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MR. K E I N E M A M >Your Honor,.it'a "hot my,'purpose t.o
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PENGADC..O BAYONN.E .NJ. 07001- FOR-MILIA0
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.charge the witness arid I think. I'm* about two or three
questions Jaway frqm'firi^
him. And I think
that if. you would sit and wait, all/I want trie,jury
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parties^through^th .filing of discovery*'requests;
And that's when those facts' are-made-known, and that's
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the way. this/plaintiff made his facts known to me and that
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is* the way Monsanto, made* its/facts known, to the plaintiffs
And. trit;'s ali I want to4establish._
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THE COURT: * That's already been established in
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opening statements`that everyone has. agreed to. ,
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HEINEMAN:' H ^ 4 .* "
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THE .COURT: -What* I mean, that's redundant. What's
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> MR. CARR: .My\client is not*a1lawyer. Mr. Heineman
would be:`the .one doing'the testifying, and the 'most this
'witness could sa is,I prsum that's what;you 'tell me ; ,
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arid that's what I'Verheard in th courtroom, is. nothing is
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within this witness' knowledge 'at`all that Mr. Heineman'
is* asking him questions of.
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fact, :has. more factual1pleadings 'than we do, and even in
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' ME. HXNEMAMr 'I'm not blaming the m a n o r the
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lawyers for not including everything in there. Ali I
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/. want is for ^it to. be established /for the-'JuryMb.benefit -
9 by testimony ofrone of the plaintiffs that;there were
10 facts that he knew about this situation which were not
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THE COURT: For what .purpose?J. "
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- MR. CARR: Judge, it's irrelevant to any of the
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*: -issues here whether .that's true r not, -it's completely
15
immaterial and1/irrelevant.' / --i";r
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MR * HEINEMAW : 'Well,,1 111 tell you, Tour .Honor,, Mr.
17
Carr ha.3' implied 'to'.this Jury that, there -was information
18
19
i fe wh' ich Mo*nsanto' failed to disclosre^., to `him^ wh^ich sh"o,uld - 1 2 ' - l* i . t - *^ , J * / - J
have been disclosed'prior to; the'^time that-it. was. And"'
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- what-.I'm trying to demonstrate ia.fche fact/ of that 21
matter is that-when hejasked the. question and the .
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i question was answered in discovery, he was made aware, ' 23 ;'-7`)
of that information.. It was answered. And he's.trying,^./
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!he said in hip opening statement;that he's trying to imply
BYONN,E NJ, 07001, FOR 'MIL.74.B
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there,:was ^some .^wrongdoing :on Monsanto 's part, because:,.
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'that'1)information1'?was['md
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TI^ OOURT:^ Just ;a -scond-ar they bringing them .
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MR , MUSGRAVEV ; She 'is checking th file ;and is going,.
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to bring them up: as^soonvas. ,possible vif. they;,haye them the^e.
-, ' .MRV IEIHEMAN:. ; And'v/hat' I;am'-attempting to '
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; demonstrate here is that.that's the way facts in a. :
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lawsuit are. discovered, that my, client has1no culpability
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as. a result of that/information being disclosed, when
it's' asked for.Vby;,the',ropposing counsel. . f ` /,J
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1 'and a, discovery' question ? Because you,1re'.'talking here abot
> a-petition initiating the .litigation in the Circuit Court: f;
" of Bi o*on*.et C ounty_, apnd thje'>ot,,h^e^*r' 41t\hri_ng Is- a'discovery i
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MR.1HEINEMAN:. '.And ;X/m going to get into the"'
1,1 *' , 1 ` ' "f`r^'' _ I / request,, ,
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= *MR., CARR: 'And;JYour Honor,'the discovery has got',
nothing to do-,with.' this client. They have no knowledge -
, discovery .except what comes "through7the lawyers. And
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whether Monsanto is .culpable or not stands :on:It s':'bottom
and not on-.anything that this man. may o r may riot 'know " '
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about the rules o f :procedure 'lh,various courts. It !Is Immaterial and Irrelevant what;this witness 'knows or '
doesn't know about the,contentsi,of this Complaint and V r
what's'plead ?or not pleaded. And all Mr; Heiheman now, ,
has confessed he's trying to do`j h e 's trying to offset ;
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the effects on the 'evidence of this case,,, the facts that,
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be
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of :the time we brought.it. out. ^And this is completely
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nor; his testimonyon'direct examination. '
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HEINEI,^AN:'
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right*..
VM1 o w, .' -yi ou . c*o.nfes<sed'bn thie,?
.-record.then, what it is that you claim we should have ./
done with the informtiontfrom the records-W-
MRV CARR: You^know'exactly what you should'have' .u'
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.done in;the'^ information that's'coming out .as tq^what
you have done.:", !" '
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MR..HINEMAN: .r(Wil',` Your Honor, I .think we're
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.entitled-to show:that in discovery that the facts that
: each side knows about, their own cas, are. disclosed in , ; discovery and tht there isn't any .obligation upon ny
p"a'rty.'t*. o' ;m;ake'-/ tho,.s?'e'
fac^ts
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. t h a t they're-asked for by the other side.N The^e is - ^
?essentially notice -pleading laws; in this state arid that \
they 're, not'-required,to ,telli e s "anything until t .ask, , /
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.them for-It-. , A-L they are required to do'is* make a
pleading that's. sufficient to plead .a lawsuit'and we find out. the facts.from them through discovery Just: the
same way they find out1 the facts /from:us. '' '-
. THE COURT; Okay. Assuming that you are'entitled.
to`do that, and you may very well he, this :is not the
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appropriate-time,' place or vehicle with this.petition, ,
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with this individual. 'You're .talking about a-petition
which is a pleading as to the .stating of a cause-of-
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action and not a.discovery vehicle. ,You're talking;,
*, about and leaving an Implication'In my'mind-at least', .; ,
that you're suggesting to the Jury that something should
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have,been left out^or was left out, when .In, fact, If it ,V-
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* had been included .It would have been subject to, a motion '
to stirike .as surplusage .because it is; surplusage, because,
that's1adequately, pleaded- There will .be*"a time and a -
place in .litigation-.to assert-what you're asserting. This/
/is not the proper^time^or' place or vehicle for it. And
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.so I am sustaining, the objection tb;it, without, making'
any .commitment, predilection or whatever, to any ruling
,in the .future,';but-this is definiteiy^not the way, to do
it and I'm sustaining the objection'to it.-'
24 **
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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 * 22 23 24
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of the discovery request-' The first one that came into
this case .from the `defendants was filed by the N. & W. in November of 1982,. and that's all I Tm trying to
establish is the order of the. pleadings and the fact
that this occurred at- that time. I'm not going to accuse these people of not telling us all the facts in,
the lawsuit or complaint or petition. X know they're
not. required to do that.
THE COURT: Let me see the other pleading that you're
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talking'about. ,
MR. HEINEMAN: This is the other one. MR. CARR: The record speaks for itself as to
what time what pleading came in, and In' the course of your
defense if you want to read and let the Court and Jury tak^ notice of what, the, if it's proper so to do, what the
record of this Court display, certainly you can do it
at that time because the Court has records of what documents came in at what time. This witness would have no
knowledge of what these court records reveal.
MR, HEINEMAN: Well, he signed, the witness has .'executed -sworn response" to. a' request for 'production
MR/ CARR: J You're attempting to impeach, him in some
way'onVsoiriettiing 'he-'said 'in direct examination. Certainly
you can.-do.it^or, if, you want tQ call him in your case, to
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BAYONN.E .NJ. .07002
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your.-base, as i. , '' * ' + ' *
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X suppose you cnVol him. But ,at this point in time
it's not an issue.,-.We certainly didn't1'refer to it-in
our direct .examination .and you;, re completely-beyond then'
scope, pf-any examination that we. have conducted." May be -
something you can prove or want to vprove later on but
certainly not this way.
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MR. HEINEMAN: Well, Yoin? -Honor, X think we are
"
entitled to do it. I think, I 'm Just .trying to lay a;,
foundation for the question as .to when the information
was made-available to Monsanto CpropahyV 1 would-* I
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hate to inconvenience this witness, I'd like to do it now,
MR. CARR: W don't mind.being'inconvenienced, he.
is a plaintiff, he\ajhere.at- the call .of any party.
THEJCptJRT: ':-Okay1 M y prior ruling .still stands. . ,
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Objection is sustained. .
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' MR.. HEINEMAH; .'All. right.. Then' I 'may not proceed?'
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THE'COURT: You may -not'.. `v '; ` \
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^ ^';t;t,HEiEMAN`:^- So" the" objection is' sustained?'.
* T^ HE''COURT:;","Yes{ ^? uIt, "v ri.s s*us' tained. r I!m s5orry i f ' 1
I didn't ,make that, c l e a r i t is 'sustained. ,
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response is signed June 9th o f 82,xecuted by this /
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- _ (Court reconvened and the following proceedings- ./ '
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; were;had,- in/open court, ih' the, presence and
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/; , ` .hearing of :the//jury :) '' '/// . / . -.7J " '-7 -. Z5,
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' MR*. HEINEMAN: 1 have nofurther questions of this/,
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r THE COURT:' /Mr/.Schoenbeck,Ldo you have any questions^
18J j TM1 " v i*i 1I* .Tffe^aQiEokt.Vi*;*'Soil*,Bonco-; ' '
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21 7 7 . Q ' Mr..Rush; I b e l i e v e y o u testified thatat one
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24
'time:you had/seen in" the- city of'Sturgeon'some orange; looking/7
snow near" th "fillings statioiiJthere; in town, *is that correct?
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BAYONN.E .NJ. 07001 FOR/MIL24B
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Q, ` You didn't-get`that on you at any-time did you, sir?
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Q , All right, Nov;, you said' that out at;your north/ - ;
farm,rwhich is part of your.holdings, 'is'it. ho't* sir?
; . A Yes..
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Q ; You-said that .at that part, of your property that. V
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flood-ed
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occasions
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' "-'9 / T V J Q Okay.. Now I knowLthat you''said the ^second'time was
10 right around April"27th or 28th. 'V
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Q 7 - Okay." Do you have a date in,mind that the first'
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flooding occurred, sir, ,'when in April" did that first flooding-
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Q :/-' All .right, -sirVVi Howplong did that last- the first'
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time that-it flooded in, April of ^1979? 'r. ' ,
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'... A I. really,don Vt ;remember. Usually ".when that creek -
19 floods it doesn't last^thajt long,- it .gets highland then it'
20 goes back down. . '" V , "' ' % /- . ' ^
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Q ' Andrsometimes within Just the spa;ce of .a day., isV.. 1
22 :
that'correct?-. L- 1 l ' ' , Fy- `-i- /' , 'r' ,
23 A Yes.
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didn't it just stay up; for-part of \a, day. and go right back,
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down? - ,'/ .^^h,,j .
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just
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a'day-, 'day and^ a/haif-'ati the 'most-.1* Depends .on. how long it
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part of a day that it -was .the second time in'April of 1979?
'8` ; / .A -/, I ,fd say the biggest share of a. day-, maybe, a little
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-that1s'-about" what- it was/"this ""first time it flooded there in
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1979, in April?. *
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: Q *.Okay'; /}And 'ksi-'ll tinderstand it,, sirs- that1s
15
the first .time that you' noticed.a .smell"; of a phenolic / 1 .' '
16 'compound by the water in'Saling ,Creek :by your property, ian.'.t
17 . that correct;? ;
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'A\ .iihich time you/taliing^about? - /
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19 ..Q. I.fm;talking about April of .1979?
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. Q .. Okay,' sir. .And is it correct that that was'also :
22 -, ' / ,.1 -*.L _ r- ^ \ .. , -, 1y v
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these two incidents in April of 1979, were the, last time that/
23 you noticed the phenolic smell to the'water in Saling Creek on
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your, properJty?. . -, /-
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] A I smelled it later after that, siri
2 Q To the water, sir?
3 Yes. ^
4 if i. 'q When did you smell it after that, sir?
5
A - Practically all summer you could smell it in th
6 air. I presume It ?as coming off the water or off the land
7
or Sturgeon or somewhere, it was in the area-.
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>.You,Just*smelled, it in 'general, is that correct?
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' ' Q ` . You .did, riot; see any blackish water that was due
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to the phenol. at any time :after April of 1979, lsn*t -that
12
correct?
13 .A Not that X remember, no.
14 Q Okay. The time that you saw black water in the
15 fall of 1975(..-it was due
problem with the maple worms,
16 is that right?
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A Yes*.'
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, ; q Okay., and that's what the.Conservation Department--
19
A As soon as this one slug went through there, the.
20
black water, the worst of it disappeared.
21
Q Now, sir, are you talking about the .slug that you
saw in April of *79?' 23
A Yes. 24
-Q Okay. So that v/as an isolated occurrence?
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bit black for a'period of time, but hot, near, as. bad as It was
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- Q r Okay* sir," and that Was in April of 1979--
5 .A ' Yes. . * ` ; -
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Q 7: : Just the^one., time. ' ,
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-q -Novii "sir^;yob' testified that Dr. Zabik*came to
9 your property knd 'took"sorae^soil samples, isn';t .that correct?
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^ JQ And you were with Dr ./Zabik when he'went'around'
12 F
and took those'samples on your property, were you'not?
13 / ~ A Yes. /
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14 . ,'Q 'And;your' attorney, Mr. Seigfreid, was..with you'-at.
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that'.time, wis'he- not ?' `
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Q ; And I would assume that when you went around on
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your1prpperty, you would have pointed out to Dr; JZabik the 'p'>vV, -' '1* ;, t - - ' -,, -- " . -P- ' ... -; , .. ,
points that you thought .werie Very likely contaminated,
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see
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that
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gotten _
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were contaminated;
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. A That1s ,right. , .^
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at random,Kbecause1,the/whole.-.creek had,been--
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th'epart- that had-been'flooded in April,
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' Q You pointed out some of those spots to-him,to.take, V
10 soil- samples? ^
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'A*. - Right, ' `
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12
Q r Arid, of course, when you got the- results of the
13 `soil- samples;from D r ,, Zablk, ^you. learned, that there: was no ri;
14. bpntaminationLon your property, isn't that correct, sir?
15 Z r ; t Av / Yeah,; I got them through-my attorney; Mr . Seigfreid;
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.' .,,Q ... I 'm not askirig you how, sir, you- got them,'you've
J 17 'testified to thati. but,the -results warb-- . -. `
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A >_ -They* were negative, rights - ' "
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19 - Q ` "" Ztbat thereZwas
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/ 'A., MonTdetectible.
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Q../ Non-detectitle Jon' your property.
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/.M R / STEPPIEN SCHOENBECK: -I have nothing further,
l /-.Your Honor, '!.. /'. .^,/'
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BAYONN.E .NJ. 0700Z FORMILZ4
1 ;;M `THE'COURT: \(rJ$o you Lhave any re-direct?
2
-/' V`MR^ CARR: No,~iYour!'Honor. -
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THE COURT: Okay. You may step down,.' Thank you.
4 Gentlemen9`could"I'see you at the bench for a minute,
5' please?
6 (Discussion was had at the bench between Court
7 and counsel and out of the hearing of the Jury and
8 the court reporter.)
9 THE COURT: All right, ladies and gentlemen. Vie
10
have come to a point in the testimony in which it's a
11
time convenient to break and we have somermatters that hav*
12
to be' taken up outside the presence of the Jury before
13 the next part of the testimony. So for that purpose vie
14 are going to release you today. I would request that you
15 be back in the courtroom at 10:30 tomorrow morning.
16 Hopefully by that time we ought to be done and hopefully,
17 with what has to he done in chambers so we can Just
18 proceed. X would admonish you noxv-^*
19 MR. CARR: The Jurors still have exhibits* Your Honor
20 r
I think they should be collected.
N
21
THE COURT: Right. If you would bring those up to
22
the clerk as soon as release you. I would admonish you
23 I now as I do before any break that youTre not to discuss ,24
this matter among" yourselves or with anyone outside
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the .Jury' panel or 'form any opinions or conclusions about the matters on trial. It Is an overnight break and I would also admonish you you are not to read or listen to or watch anything, about either'this trial in particular or the subject matter of this trial. I want 'to thank you for your attention and cooperation and Court Is adJourned.
(Court adjourned)
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1 STATE OF ILLINOIS
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BAYONNE. N.J. 07001- FORMIL241