Document 5mbxQXxvVBY1b2nMaRVyyR7N

JUL-11-03 14 = 50 FROM = PWHD ID = 7572402770 PAGE 2/25 Theodore Brodie Pamela Ondik, et al vs. ACandS, Inc., et al Volume One December 5,200 commonwealth of Massachusetts Middlesex, s$. Superior Court Department of the Trial Court No. 00-2463 " ******************** *>*+***v ************ PAM ELA A. ONDIK, PAUL D, ONDIK, MICHAEL F. ONDIK, and MEGAN ONDIK, Plaintiffs, * * - vs. * i ACandS, INC,, et al, * *******De*f*en*d#an**ts** ****W*******I|IW********* DEPOSITION OF THEODORE BRODIE (Volume One), tt witness called on behalfofdie Plaintiffs, taken pursuant to the applicable provisions of the Massachusetts Rules of Civil Procedure, befoie Lonsne R. Eppley, CSR, Registered Professional Reporter and Notaiy Public within and for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at the Law Offices of CetruJo & Capone, 2 Seaport Lane, 10th Floor, Boston, Massachusetts, on Tuesday, Dec< mber 5,20M. commencing at 10:07 a.m. EPPLEY COURT REPORTING Post Office Box 532 Ashland, Massachusetts 01721 (508) 231-8707 (508)231*8855 (Fa*) i 1 Representing Bird and General Insulation; LECOMTE, EMANUELSON, MQTEJUNAS & DOYLE 2 Presidents Place, 1250 Hencoct Sum Quincy, MA 02169 3 BY: RICHARD B, KIRBY. ESQ. (617)328-1900 (617) 328-2030 (Fax) 4 5 Representing Dresser Industries; GIDLEY. SARLI & MARUSAK 6 One Turk's Head Place, Suite 900 Providence, RJ 02903 7 BY: JAMES P. MARUSAK, ESQ. (401)274-6644 (401)331-9304(Fax) S 9 Representing Gariock and Anchor Packing: ANDERSON, ADLER, COHEN & HARVEY 10 230 Congress Street Boston, MA 02110 11 BY: J. YASMIN TAYYAB, ESQ. (6l7) 423-6674 (617)423-7152 (Fax) 12 13 Representing Paul Dutelle &. Company. Inc.: ANDERSON, ADLER, COHEN A HARVEY 14 230 Congress Street Boston, MA 02110 li BY: JENNIFER BOYD, ESQ, (617)433-6674 (617)423*7152(Fax) 16 17 Representing G-I Holdings, Inc., Kaiser Chemical, and UnirOyal, Inc.: 18 NIXON PEABODY, LLP 101 Federal Street 19 Boston, MA 02110 BY; CHRISTOPHER ALLEN, ESQ. 20 (617)345-1000 (617) 345-1300 (Fax) 21 Representing Waldo Bros. Company and Roclcfaestos: 22 PIERCE. DAVIS & PERRITANOv LLP Ten Wintluop Square . 23 Boston, MA 02110 BY; JUDITH A. PERRITaNO, ESQ. 24 (617)350-0950 (617)350-7760 (Fax) 3 o1 APPEARANCES; Reprcientirtg the Plainfifft: 3 UW OFFICE OF MICHAEL C. SHEPARD, P-C2C5 Portland Street 4 Boston, MA 02214 BY; MICHAEL C. SHEPARD, ESQ. $ (617)742-1121 (617) 742-5155 (Fax) 6 Representing New England Insulation; 7 LAW OFFICE OF JOHN M. RUSSELL, JR. 66 Manomet Avenue 3 HJl, MA 02645 BY; JOHN M. RUSSELL. JfL, ESQ, 9 (7}il) 925*0698 10 Representing ACandS, Inc., A.P. Green, Armstrong 11 World Industries, National Gypsum. fleXitallid, United States Gypsum Company, Riley Stoker J2 Com;.ration, and Turner & Newell, pic; Cl TRULQ& CAPONE 13 2 !,capon Lane 10th Floor 14 Boston, MA 02210 BV; CHRISTOPHER A.D. HUNT. ESQ, 15 (617)624-0111 (617)624-9360 (Fax) 16 Repn renting Owens-Illinois: 17 Bl;RNSTTsN, SHUR, SAWYER &. NELSON 100 Middle Street 12 F.Oi Box 9729 . . Portland, ME 04104 19 BY: TODD HOLBROOK, ESQ. (207) 774-1200 (207) 774-112? (Fax) 20 . 21 Representing Eastern Refractories Company: HERMES, NETBURN, O'CONNOR k SPEARING, P-C. 22 111 Devonshire Street 8tn Floor 23 Boston. MA 02109 BY: JOHN R. FELICE, ESQ. 24 (617)728-0050 (6)7)728-0052 (Fax) 1 Representing Boston Edison: McDonough, hacking & neumekk llp 2 1 ] Bacon Street, Suite 1000 Boston, MA 02108 3 BY; MARK B. LAVOIE, ESQ. (617)367-0808 (617) 367-8307 (Fax) 4 5 Representing A.W. Chesterton Company: COOLEY MANION JONES, LLP 6 21 Custom House Sensei Boston, MA 02HO 7 BY: PAUL BECKWITH, ESQ, (617)737-3100 (617) 73743374 (Fax) 8 9 Representing Thomas O'Connor Company: BROADHURST, LAKIN & LAJUN 10 One Eire Square Andover,MA 018)0 1) BY: KENNETH A, LAJON, ESQ- (978)470-3545 (978) 470-3464 (Fax) 12 13 Representing The OkOnitt Company: SALLY & FITCH 14 225 fftnlclin Street Boston, MA 02)10 15 BY; HEATHER BAER, ESQ. (617)542-5542 (617) 542*1542 (Fax) 16 17 Representing william c. Norcross; JURSEK fe DENNIS 18 20 Pickering Street Needhattt, MA 02492 19 BY; HELEN D. JURSEK, ESQ, (781)433-0330 (781)455-0770(Fax) 20 i 21 Representing USX Corporation; Baughman a associates co., lpa 22 55 Public Square Suite 2213 23 Cleveland, OH 44113 BY; PERRIN I. SAH. ESQ. 24 (216)687-1244 (2l6) 621-4066 (fax) 4 JUL-11-03 14=53 FROM=PWHD ID = 7572432770 Theodore Brodie Pamela Ondik, et al vs, ACandS, Inc., et al Volume One PAGE December 5} 2000 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 . 24 Representing FO USA: SMITH & DUGGAN, LLP Two Center Plaza Boston, MA 02108 BY: CHRISTINA SCHENK-HaRGRQVE, ESQ. (617)248-1900 (617) 248-9320 (Fax) Representing Combustion Engineering and Eckel Industries: GOVERNO and KAVANAGH 99 High Street Boston, 14A 02110 BY: JENIFFER A. PETERSON, ESQ, (617)423-4500 (617)423-4505 (Fax) ' Representing Graybar Electric; TOOMEV & YUDYSKY, LLP 99 Summer Street Boston, MA 02110 BY: KATHERINE E. HOFFMAN, ESQ. (617) 946-0930 (617) 946-0989 (Fax) - 5 7; 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 3 THEODORE BRODIE, Deponent, having first been 4 duly sworn, deposes and states as follows: ' 5 6 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MILSHEPARD: 7 8 Q. Good morning, Mr, Brodie, 9 A. Morning. 10 Q, I know you've been at a couple of 11 depositions before. I'm just going to run 12 through a couple of ground rules so we're both on 13 the same page. The court reporter is here taking 14 down all of the testimony, questions and answers 15 today. It's, therefore, important that only one 16 ofus speak at a time. I will attempt to wait 17 for you to finish your answer before I begin my 18 next question, and ifyou could wait for me to 19 finish my question before you begin your answer, 20 Also, you need to answer all questions 21 verbally, so nods of the head and words like 22 "uh-huh" aren't reflected in the record very 23 well. If you need to take a break at any time, 24 let us know. If you don't understand any ,6 1 INDEJt 2 WITNESS DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS THEODORE BRODIE 4 Mr, Shepard 7 5 Mr. Kirby 206 Mr. Sah 230 6 7 8 9 EXHIBIT 10 PAGE 11 Exhibit 1, Invoice.......... 88 Exhibit 2, Li;.t of Companies............. 120 12 Exhibit 3, Deposition Notice...,,,,..,,,, 134 Exhibit 4, Dr SelikofFs Address........ 222 13 (Original Exhibits Returned to Mr. Shepard) 14 15 16 ^ ** MARKED QUESTIONS ** 'Page 205, Line 12 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 . 's 1 question that I've asked, I ask that you tell me 2 that and I'll either restate or rephrase the 3 question. Otherwise, I'll assume that you 4 understood the question as I asked it. Is that 5 fair? * 6 A. Fair. . 7 MR. LAVOIE: Stipulations? 8 MR. SHEPARD: Sure. Usual 9 stipulations? 10 MR. RUSSELL: Yes. 11 MR. SHEPARD: Fine. 12 Q. Could you state your full name for theJ 13 record. 14 A. Theodore, middle initial or full name? 15 Q. However you prefer, 16 A, H. Brodie, B-R-O-D-I-E. 17 Q. What is your residential address, Mr. 18 Brodie? 19 A* 26 King Caesar, C-A-E-S-A-R, Road, 20 Duxbury, Mass, 21 Q. What is your date of birth? 22 A. 12/16/2 9. 23 Q. Are you taking any medications today? 24 A. Yes. fVitirf P^rwlrtfrtO- JUL-11-03 14 = 53 FROM = PWHD ID = 7572432770 Theodore Brodie Pamela Ondik, et al vs. ACandS, Inc., et ai Volume One PAGE 4/25 December 5,200 9 1 Q. Would any of those medications affect 2 you ability to remember or testify here today? 3 A. No* 4 Q. Have you ever been arrested? 5 A. No. 6 Q. How many depositions have you given 7 prior to today? S A. To the best of my recollection, I think 9 there have been two prior. 10 Q, And can you recall approximately when 11 those depositions took place? 12 .A. 1 think it was about four years ago in 13 the Commonwealth of Mass case that Terry Dangei, 14 Attorney Dangel brought, and 1 believe there was 15 on; maybe, I'm guessing, really guessing at this. 16 ID years ago. 17 Q. Do you recall testifying in IS approximately 1985 in a Commonwealth case ~ 19 1984, I'm sorty, with Terry Dangel. Would that 20 be about the one that was maybe 10 years ago? 21 A. That probably was that one. Yeah, that 22 wasn't the Commonwealth of Mass, case that I was 23 referring to on the later one* 24 Q. So, there was a Commonwealth of Mass. li l haven't kept track of it. 2 Q. Out of the number of times that you've 3 testified at trial, how many of them were in a 4 Case involving asbestos? 5 A. I'm eliminating my collection cases, so 6 I would say the majority of my testimony at trial 7 have been on asbestos cases. 8 Q. Would you be able to approximate in the 9 last five years how many times you've testified 10 at trial in an asbestos case? 11 A. In the last five years, I don't believe 12 I've testified that often. I testified in the 13 Corcoran case. That one stands out in my mind, 14 but actually testifying in court, I think that's 15 the only one in the last five years. 16 Q, Can you summarize your education for me 17 beginning with high school? 18 A. Graduate of Taber Academy in Marion and 19 a graduate of Bowdoin College in Brunswick, 20 Maine, and one year at Saint Columba College just 21 outside of Dublin in Ireland. 22 Q, Was the one year at Saint Columbus 23 (sic) after you had graduated from Bowdoin or was 24 that part of your undergraduate degree? 10 1 case that you testified in approximately four 2 years ago? 3 A. I believe that's correct, isn't it? 4 Ynah. Counsel agrees with me. 5 MR. RUSSELL: Do you want to swear me 6 in? 7 Q. Did you testify in the Corcoran case? S A* I testified in the Corcoran case as 9 wall, yes. 10 Q, Did you give a deposition in that case? 11 A. Don't remember whether I gave a 12 deposition in that or not 13 Q. Pm going to band you a document and 14 see if it refreshes your recollection as to . 15 wliether you gave a deposition in the Corcoran 16 case? 17 A. I guess I did. 18 Q. And do you recall an Attorney Paul 19 Dwyer asking you questions in that deposition? 20 Counsel for Owens-Corning? 21 A. Yes* 22 Q. How many times have you testified at 23 trial? 24 A. Oh, goodness. I really don't know* I 12 1 A. That was between high school and 2 college, and it's Columba, spelled with an "A" on 3 the end. I was an exchange fellow with the 4 school. , 5 Q, What degree, if any, did you obtain 6 from Bowdoin College? 7 A. BA* 8 Q, In what concentration? 9 A- History, government, and sociology* 10 Q. When were you first contacted about 11 this deposition? 12 A* A couple weeks ago* 13 Q. Who contacted you? 14 A. I think I received something in the 15 mail from the Coady office. 16 Q, Would that have been the summons and 17 complaint in the case, do you recall? IS A. If that's the formal term, yes. 19 Q, Is that the first notice you had of the 20 existence of this lawsuit? 21 A. No, I had received maybe a week or two 22 before that -- we're speaking of the Ondik case? 23 Q. Correct, yes. 24 A* Something in the mail from -- I think JUL-11-03 14 = 53 FROM = PWHD ID = 7572432770 Pamela Ondik, et al vs. ACandS, Inc., et al Theodore Brodie Volume One PAGE December 5,2000 13 1 it was something about that thick, and I don't 2 remember what its title was. * Q. Have you spoken to anyone regarding 4 your testimony in the deposition here today? 5 A. My counsel. 6 Q. Anyone other than counsel? 7 A- No. 8 Q. When is the first time you spoke with 9 counsel about your testimony in this deposition 10 today? 11 A. I would say a couple of weeks ago. 12 Q. W<is that an in-person meeting or was 13 that by telephone or by some other means? 14 A. That was over the phone. 15 Q, How long did that conversation last? 16 MR. RUSSELL: I'm going to object to 17 that and instruct the witness not to answer IS any questions relative to his conversations 19 with me. 20 MR. SHEPARD: Grounds? 21 MR. RUSSELL: Attorney-client. 22 Q. After that initial phone conversation. 23 have you liad any other discussions with counsel 24 regarding your testimony in this deposition 15 1 shown any documents? 2 MR. RUSSELL: I object and instruct the 3 witness not to answer. I think you've gone 4 far enough into this. 5 Q. In that face-to-face meeting, were you 6 shown any documents in relation to your testimony 7 at this deposition today? 3 MR. RUSSELL: Again, I object and 9 instruct the witness not to answer. 10 Q. Have you looked at any documents in 11 preparation for your testimony at today's 12 deposition? 13 A. I looked at one or two. 14 Q. And can you tell me what those 15 documents are? 16 A. Copies of invoices from New England 17 Insulation Company. IS Q. Were the one or two documents one or 19 two invoices? 20 A. They were both invoices, yes. 21 Q, How many pages did each document 22 consist of? 23 A. I don't know for sure, but I would 24 hazard it could have been two to four, something 14 1 today? 2 A. Yes, I have. 3 Q, On how many occasions? 4 A. Three, maybe four, something like that. 5 And let jpo correct a prior answer. 1 did taik to 6 a contact at Liberty Mutual relative to this 7 deposition as well. They are our insurer. 8 Q. What is that contact's name? 9 A. Don't remember. They keep changing all 10 the time. 11 Q. Docs this person have a title, that 12 you're aware of? 13 A. He has a title, I'm not aware of it 14 Q. Rail enough. The three or four other 15 occasions, other than the initial phone 16 conversation with counsel, were they in person, 17 by telephone, or by some other means? IS A. We had a face-to-face meeting in my 19 office and there were several phone conversations 20 in addition to that 21 Q. How many face-to-face meetings did you 22 have with counsel other than today? 23 A. I believe it was one. 24 Q, In that face-to-face meeting, were you 16 1 like that. Maybe five. I didn't count the 2 pages. 3 Q, Okay. How did you come to obtain the 4 invoices that you reviewed? 5 A. Counsel provided them to me. 6 Q. Can you tell me briefly what 7 information was contained on the invoices? 8 A* The amount of labor and materials that 9 were used to achieve -- to do certain work. 10 Q. What work was reflected in the 11 invoices? 12 A. I would have to look at the individual 13 invoices to be able to answer that correctly. 14 Q. Do you recall which jobsite the 15 invoices were regarding? 16 A. I believe it was at New Boston Station. 17 Q, Do you recall the dates of the 18 invoices? 19 A- No, I do not 20 Q. Did the invoices reflect the use of any 21 asbestos-containing products? 22 A. They reflected the use of Kaylo, 23 calcium silicate material. 24 Q. Did you bring those documents with you F.nnlev P.onrt Rpnorfinp1 JUL-11-03 15:00 FROM:PWHD ID:7572432770 PAGE 6/2 5 Theodore Brodie Pamela Ondik, et'al vs. ACandS, Inc,, et al Volume One December 5,20C 17 1 today? 2 A. I didn't, no. 3 Q. Where are those documents now, to the 4 best of your knowledge? 5 A- I think my attorney has them. 6 Q, When is the last time you've seen those 7 documents? S A. 1 saw one of the documents 15 minutes 9 ago. ( 10 Q, And the other document, when is the JI laiit time you saw it? 12 A- The other documents, 10 days ago, 13 roughly. I don't know. Two weeks. 14 Q. And did reviewing the documents help IS re fresh your recollection regarding work done at 16 th? Boston Edison location? 17 A, Somewhat. IS MR. SHEPARD: Counsel, do you have that 19 document with you? 20 MIL RUSSELL: I think I got it from 21 you, as a matter of fact. 22 MR. SHEPARD: Could I take a look at 23 it? 24 MR. RUSSELL: Sure, 19 1 testimony regarding his work history? 2 MR. RUSSELL: Regarding work history 3 and any eye history, yes, I am. 4 Q. Mr. Brodie, I'm just going to briefly 5 run through with you information I have from 6 prior depositions, and if you spot any 7 inaccuracies in it, I would ask that you let me 8 know. 9 You began with New England Insulation 10 in 1956? 11 A. Correct 12 Q. You began in the production department? 13 A. Correct 14 Q, In 1960, you moved to estimating and 15 sales? 16 A. Correct 17 Q, In 1961 or '62, you became assistant 13 general manager? 19 A. Correct 20 Q, Do you recall if it was '61 or '62? 21 A. No. 22 Q. 1969, became general manager and 23 president? 24 A. Correct is 1 MR. SHEPARD: We'll look at it later at 2 the break. Canyoujustkeepitout? 3 MR. RUSSELL: Sure. 4 MR. SHEPARD: Thanks. 5 Q. Did you bring any other documents with 6 you today? 7 A. No. S Q, Have you provided any documents to 9 Counsel in relation to the Ondik case? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Have you undertaken any search ofNew 12 England Insulation records to look for documents 13 that, might be relevant to the Ondik case? 14 A. I have not. 15 Q. Have you been asked to do so? 16 A. Don't remember being asked to do so. 17 Q. Was anyone else present at the IS face-to-face meeting you had with counsel? 19 A. I don't believe so. 20 MR. SHEPARD: John, we spoke a little 21 bit about his prior depositions and adopting 22 testimony in those depositions so we don't 23 have to belabor him today with questions 24 about them. Are you willing to adopt prior 20 1 Q. 1970, you purchased the company? 2 A, I think it was *71, actually. 3 Q. And after purchasing the company, your 4 title was president and CEO? 5 A. Correct 6 Q, Can you tell me what yourjob duties 7 entailed while you worked doing sales for New 8 England Insulation? 9 A. Obviously making customer contact to be 10 placed on a bid list, to analyze what Segments of 11 the industry we would be participating in or 12 trying to participate in, actually estimating the 13 projects, reading the specifications, working the 14 drawings, determining quantities, determining 15 amounts of labor and materials, pricing those and 16 quoting the projects, and then following up on 17 the quotations with the customers to obtain an IS order. 19 Q. And did thatjob differ in any way from 20 being an estimator or were the two somehow 21 intertwined? 22 A In my case they were intertwined. I 23 did both. 24 Q, Were there other employees ofNew JUL-11-03 15:00 FROM:PWHD ID:7572432770 Theodore Brodie Pamela OndiJc, et al vs. ACandS, Inc., et al Volume One PAGE December 5, 2000 21 1 England Insolation in the years 1960 and later 2 that were just sales people and not estimators? 3 A. There were. One. 4 Q. Do jou remember that person's name? 5 A. John O'Brien. Deceased. 6 Q,, And were there people in that time 7 frame who were employedjust as estimators, but 8 not as sales people? 9 A. From when to when? 10 Q. We'ie talking when you began as an, 11 estimator in I960 forward. 12 A. From time to time, yes. 13 Q. When was New England Insulation 14 incorporated? 15 A. 1936. 1 believe it was January. 16 Q. And what is the basis of your knowledge 17 that it was incorporated in 1935? IS A. The corporate document from the 19 Secretary of State of the Commonwealth of Mass., 20 as well as information from the prior owner. 21 Q. And was that gained through 22 conversations with him? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. What is his name? 23 1 A. It did. 2 Q. And when was that? 3 A. My best guess, at this point, was 1978, 4 '77, somewhere in there. 5 Q. Can you tell me the circumstances 6 regarding or surrounding the cessation of her 7 interest in the company? S A. She wanted to be cashed out. 9 Q. So, it wasn't her death? 10 A. No. 11 Q, When did Judith gain an ownership 12 interest in New England Insulation? 13 A. Approximately 1953 or 4. 14 Q. And at some point in time, did her 15 ownership interest cease to exist? 16 A. It did. 17 Q. And when was that? 18 A. I think it was *82 or '83. Somewhere 19 in there. 20 Q. Do you recall the circumstances of the 21 ending of her ownership interest? 22 A. She wanted to get cashed out. 23 Q. From 1982 to - strike that. 24 In 1971 when you purchased the company 22 1 A. Arthur E. Swanson. 2 Q. Wa:5 the company formed by Mr. Swanson? 3 A, It was formed by Mr. Swanson's father. 4 Q. Wh.it was Mr. Swanson's father's name? 5 A. Walter E. Swanson. 6 . Q. Do you know at what point in time 7 Arthur E. Swanson took over ownership of the S company? 9 A. Upon his father's death, which was 10 approximately -1 think it was around 1950. Up 11 to that time, he had been a part owner. 12 Q. And from whom did you purchase the 13 company? 14 A- Arthur Swanson. 15 Q. Between 1935 and 1971, did anyone else 16 own the company other thap Walter or Arthur 17 Swanson? ; IS A. Emily P. Swanson, Arthur's wife, and 19 Judith Swanson, his daughter. 20 Q. When did Emily P. Swanson become or 21 gain an ownership interest in the company? 22 A, I would say 1935. 23 Q. And at some point in time, did her 24 ownership interest cease to exist? 24 1 from Arthur, Emily and Judith retained ownership 2 interests; is that correct? 3 A. They did. 4 Q. No one else had any interest at that 5 time? 6 A. That's correct, other than myself. 7 Q. Other than yourself. After Judith S cashed out in 1982, who owned the company? 9 A. I did. 10 Q. Were there any other owners? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Since that time - strike that 13 Do you own the company today? 14 A. Ido. 15 Q. Are there any other owners today? 16 A. There are not. 17 Q, Have there been any other owners 18 between '82 and the present? 19 A, There have not. 20 Q. What is the proper name of the company 21 today? 22 A. New England Insulation Co period. 23 Q. What was the name of the corporation 24 when it was formed in 1935? T?tvrtlf-v r'/w'iTt P Anrvrtintf JUL-11-03 15:01 FROM = PWHD ID = 7572432770 PAGE 0/25 Theodore Brodie Pamela Oudik, # al vs. ACandS, Inc., et aJ Volume One December 5,200 25 1 A, New England Insulation Co period. 2 Q. Has it been known by any other name 3 since 1935? 4 A. Not to my knowledge. 5 Q, Does any other corporation or business 6 entity have any ownership interest in New England 7 Insulation? 8 A No. 9 Q. Are there any holding companies 10 presently? ` 11 A, No. 12 Q. Have any other corporations or holding 13 companies had an interest in New England 14 Insulation? 15 A. At one point, yes. 16 Q, Was that National Energy? 17 A. That was National Energy, Inc, 18 Q, When did National Energy, Inc. come to 19 have an interest in New England Insulation? 20 A. When I formed it 21 Q. When did you form it? 22 A. Sometime in the early '80s, I believe. 23 Q, Does National Energy, Inc. exist today? 24 A. No. 27 1 Supply Corp. in? 2 A. In the areas that it was working, it 3 was distributing materials, insulation materials. 4 Primarily, though, it was in the fabrication of 5 insulation materials to OEM accounts. Original 6 equipment manufacturers is OEM. 7 Q. Can you give me an example of an OEM 8 account that Insulation Supply Corp. has held? 9 A. General Electric. Basically the 10 companies in the Ohio, Kentucky, Indiana area 11 that were involved with the manufacture of 12 washing machines, refrigerators, et cetera. 13 Q. And were the insulation materials that 14 were distributed and fabricated for those type of 15 items, washing machines, those type of things? 16 A. Were they what? 17 Q. Were the insulation materials that 18 Insulation Supply Corp. distributed and 19 fabricated for washing machines and other types? 20 A They were. 21 Q. Did Insulation Supply Corp. ever do 22 business in Massachusetts? 23 A. I don't think I changed the name of the 24 distribution facility here to Insulation Supply 26 1 Q. When did it cease to exist? 2 A I think around 1986, '87, 3 Q. Between the formation of National 4 Energy, Inc. and the termination ofNational 5 Energy, Inc. in approximately 1986 or 1987, did 6 that holding company have an interest in any 7 oilier companies? 8 A It did. 9 Q, What were those companies? 10 A A.F. Underhill Co., Inc. 11 Q. Any others? 12 A Reardon Underhill. 13 Q. How do you spell Reardon? 14 A, R-E-A-R-D-O-N. There was another one. 15 I'm trying to think of the name. 16 Q, Would Insulation Supply Coip. be one of 17 them? 18 A Yes. That was basically located in 19 Louisville and Indianapolis. 20 Q. How about Insulation Specialties, was 21 that owned by National Energy? 22 A I don't remember whether I included 23 that or not 24 Q. What type of business was Insulation 28 I Corp., but I really don't remember. The primary 2 purpose of Insulation Supply was we purchased a 3 Chapter 7 company called LISCO, Louisville 4 Insulation Supply, and took over their business. 5 Q. Do you know ifLISCO or Insulation 6 Supply Corp. ever did any work at any Boston 7 Edison location in Massachusetts? S A. They didn't do any work, no, absolutely 9 not. 10 Q. I'm sorry, go ahead. 11 A. Go ahead. 12 Q. Do you know if LISCO or Insulation 13 Supply Corp. ever sold any materials to any 14 Boston Edison location in Massachusetts? 15 A LISCO didn't, and I don't believe 16 Insulation Supply did because I don't think I 17 changed the name here, I really don't remember 13 that 19 Q. When you say you don't think you 20 changed the name here, was there a LISCO outfit 21 in the area when you purchased the company? 22 A. There was not 23 Q. What facility existed in Massachusetts 24 for the distribution and fabrication of JUL-11-03 15:01 FROM = PWHD ID: 7572492770 Pamela Onchk, et, al vs. ACaadS, IneT, eL al Theodore Brotlie Volume One PAGE 3/25 December 5,2000 . 29 1 insulation materials for OEM manufacturers? 2 A. None for OEM manufacturers. 3 Q. Did Insulation Supply Corp, have a 4 facility in Massachusetts, even though it wasn't 5 named Ins ulation Supply Corp.? 6 A. Not a separate -- it would not have had 7 a separate facility. S Q. Wliat facility are you referring to when 9 you say you didn't change the name of it? 10 A- The facility would be the building, so 11 I'm not sure I understand your question. 12 Q. Well, I'm getting to Insulation Supply 13 Corp. I asked ifthey did business in 14 Massachusetts, and you said you don't think they IS changed the name here. 16 A. I don't think I changed -1 don't 17 think I changed the name from New England IS Insulation to Insulation Supply Corp. 19 Q. So, New England Insulation was the 20 company you're referring to as not having changed 21 the name? 22 A. That's correct. 23 Q. Did New England Insulation provide any 24 materials to OEM manufacturers, insulation 31 1 Insulation, but by Mr. Swanson and myself in 2 1958,1 believe. 3 Q. Does it exist today? 4 A. No, it does not 5 Q. When did it cease to exist? 6 A. Mid'80s7 Q. Did the corporation go bankrupt? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Can you tell me the circumstances 10 surrounding the cessation of the corporation? 11 A. It's assets were combined with that of 12 Insulation Supply Corp. or Co. Insulation Supply 13 Co, 14 Q. Between 1958 and the mid 1980s, did 15 Insulation Specialties engage in any other 16 business activity other than fabrication of 17 fiberglass blankets for the metal building 18 industry? 19 A. Not during the time that it was owned 20 by New England Insulation. 21 Q. Did you purchase Insulation 22 Specialties? You mentioned you and Mr. Swanson. 23 A. Had originally formed Insulation 24 Specialties. 30 1 materials? 2 A. No, we did not. 3 Q. What type ofbusiness was Insulation 4 Specialties in? 5 A. They were fabricators of fiberglass 6 blanket with various facing materials exclusively 7 for the metal building industry. 8 Q, Can you give me an example of a use of 9 a fiberglass blanket in the metal building 10 industry? 11 A. Almost any metal building you look at 12 is insulated with that type of product on the . 13 interior. 14 Q. Is that insulation on the walls of the 15 building? 16 A. It's on the walls and ceiling. You 17 wouldn't call it a ceiling, it's the roof. 18 Q. The walls and die roof? 19 A. The peak roof and the sides. 20 Q. When did Insulation Specialties come 21 into being? 22 A. In the time that you're talking about. 23 approximately '65,1 would guess. It was 24 originally formed not as a part of New England 32 1 Q. Formed. 2 A. It was just closed out, liquidated by 3 Mr. Swanson and myself. 4 Q. In response to my question about other 5 activities other than fabrication of fiberglass 6 blankets, you said not in the time frame that it 7 was owned by New England Insulation. Can you S tell me what time frame that is? 9 A. New England Insulation formed 10 Insulation Specialties as a division of New 11 England Insulation upon the death of the person 12 who was the president of and the first of 13 Insulation Specialties. 14 Q. Do you recall what year that was? 15 A. 1962,1 think. 16 Q. Between 1958 and 1962, do you know if 17 Insulation Specialties engaged in any other 18 business activity other than the fabrication of 19 fiberglass blankets? 20 A. I believe they did, but to the extent, 21 I'm not sure, and exactly what it was, I'm not 22 sure. 23 Q. Can you tell me today who would be the 24 person most knowledgeable regarding the work done ----------- .......-- ........... ----------------------------------------------Eppley Court Reporting JUL-11-03 15=02 FROM=PWHD ID = 7572432770 Theodore Brodie Pamela Ondik, et al vs. ACandS, Inc., et al Volume One PAGE 1 0/25 December 5,2GC 33 i by that company between 1958 and 1962? 2 A. Myself. 3 Q, Are there any business records that 4 still survive today regarding Insulation 5 Specialties' work between 1958 and '62? 6 A- Not to my knowledge. 7 Q. So, is the only source of information 8 about the work that they were doing between those 9 years your memory? 10 A. To the best of my knowledge, yes. 11 Q, Do you know if Insulation Specialties 12 ever did business with Boston Edison between 1958 13 and the mid l9S0s? 14 A. From 1958? 15 Q, Correct. 16 A. I would not -1 don't remember any. 17 Let's put it that way. I know when it became 18 part of New England Insulation it didn't. 19 Whether it did prior to that, I don't know. 20 Q. That was my next question. Thank you. 21 Who was responsible for the day-to-day operation 22 of Insulation Specialties between 1958 and 1962? 23 A. Frank Morello, M-G-R-E-L-L-G. 24 Q. Was Mr. Morello related to you in any 35 1 applications, and penetration seals of commercial 2 structures, and rehabbing of retail space 3 primarily for the supermarket industry. 4 Q. Who owns A.F. Underhill today? 5 A. Ido. 6 Q. Have you always owned A.F. Underhill? 7 A. No, I purchased it in -1 think it was 8 '78. 9 Q. Who did you purchase it from? 10 A. Alfred -- I don't know if it was Albert 11 or Alfred. Al Wynot, W-Y-N-O-T. 12 Q. Do you know when A.F. Underhill was 13 incorporated, if ever? 14 A, It was incorporated by Mr* Underhill in 15 1935. It was a good year. 16 Q. What state was it incorporated in? 17 A. Massachusetts. IS Q. And is Mr. Underhill Mr, A.F. 19 Underhill? 20 A. Andy Underhill is deceased. When I 21 purchased it from Mr. Wynot -- 22 MR. RUSSELL: Why don't you wait for a 23 question. 24 A. Okay. 34 1 way? ' 2 A. He was my stepfather. 3 Q. And is he still with us? 4 A. He died of mesothelioma in '62, 5 Q. Did Mr. Morello ever work for New 6 England Insulation? 7 A. No. S Q. And do you know if Mr. Morello 9 maintained any personal files or records of 10 Insulation Specialties? 11 A. He did not. 12 Q. What became of the business records of 13 Irisulation Specialties in the mid '80s when the 14 coiporation ceased to exist? 15 A. Off the top of my head, I don't know. 16 Q. Okay. When Insulation Specialties' 17 assets were combined with Insulation Supply 18 Carp., what became ofthe name Insulation 19 Specialties, if anything? 20 A. It j ust disappeared. 21 Q. What type of business was A.F. 22 Underhill Company, Inc. in? 23 A, A.F. Underhill is involved with 24 commercial building insulation, cold storage 36 1 Q, Do you know how Mr. Wynot came to own 2 the corporation? 3 A. He purchased it from Andy Underhill. 4 Q. Between 1935 and 1978, what type of 5 business was A.F, Underhill in? 6 A. Basically the same business it's in 7 today, except for the penetration seals. They 8 weren't doing it in those days. 9 Q. Has A.F, Underhill ever conducted any 10 business with Boston Edison? 11 A. Ever? 12 Q. Ever. 13 A. 1 think they insulated a building in a 14 transmission facility off of High Street once. I 15 think that's the only one I know of. ' 16 Q. Do you recall when that was? 17 A- Sometime in the '80s. 18 Q, Do you know ifthatjob involved the 19 use of asbestos? 20 A. It did not. It was all fiberglass. 21 Qt When you purchased A.F. Underhill in 22 1978, who was responsible - from the point of 23 purchase forward, who was responsible for the 24 day-to-day operation ofthe company? JUL-1 1-03 15 = 02 FROM = PWHD ID: 7572492770 Pamela Oiidik, et al vs. ACandS, Inc., cl al Theodore Brodie Volume One PAGE 1 1/25 December 5, 2000 37 1 A* Mr. Wynot was still involved and a 2 gentleman oy the name of Mr. Parker, William 3 Parker, was hired as the general manager. 4 Qt Did .VF. Underhill at any time from 5 1935 to the present sell or supply or work with 6 any asbestos-containing products? 7 A. Not to my knowledge. Even though the S name is the same, there were two different 9 companies. When I purchased it, I purchased it 10 as Newco and then bought the name A.F. Underhill. 11 Just so you know, there's a corporate split 12 there. 13 Q. So, y on purchased Newco? 14 A- No,) formed Newco. 15 Q. You formed Newco? 16 A. And that purchased the assets of-- 17 certain assets of A.F, Underhill, but not all. IS Q. Did it purchase any liabilities of A.F. 19 Underhill? 20 A. It did not 21 Q. After your purchase of certain assets, 22- including the name A.F. Underhill, what became of 23 the old A.F. Underhill, ifyou know? 24 A. Mr. Wynot owned the old A.F. Underhill, 39 1 think. Somewhere in there. o Q. Do you know if the work that Reardon 3 Underhill did insulating the Hynes involved the 4 use of any asbestos products? 5 A. It did not. 6 Q. What other projects was Reardon 7 Underhill involved in? 8 A. Boylston, I think it's 600 Boylston 9 Street. It's the building right across from the 10 New England Mutual. 11 Q. What work did Reardon Underhill do in 12 that building? 13 A. Commercial building insulation. 14 Q, Did that work involve the use of any 15 asbestos products? 16 A. It did not 17 Q, Did any of the projects undertaken by IS Reardon Underhill involve the use of any asbestos 19 products? 20 A. They did not. 21 Q. Who was responsible for the day-to-day 22 operation of Reardon Underhill from the date of 23 its formation forward? 24 A. Blaisdel Reardon, B-X^A-US-D E-L. 38 1 which he changed the name, and I don't recall the 2 name he changedit to, and it became a personal 3 holding company. 4 Q. Do you know if that personal holding 5 company is still in existence today? 6 A. I have no way of knowing. Mr. Wynot is 7 deceased. 8 Q. What type of business was or is Reardon 9 Underhill in? 10 A. Reardon Underhill was formed 11 specifically for three projects -- originally 12 formed for One project in Boston, to perform 13 their commercial building insulation at the 14 auditorium. 15 Q. Which auditorium? 16 A. The new one in -- you know, up near 17 Prudential Center. 18 Q, The Hynes? 19 A. The Hynes. 20 Q. Do y ou recall what year Reardon 21 Underhill was formed? 22 A. When the Hynes was built. There's so 23 many jobs, I can't remember exactly which year. 24 but that was built, what, in the early '80s, I 40 1 Q, When did Reardon Underhill cease to 2 exist, if ever? 3 A, Roughly sometime in the late '80s, '88, 4 '89, something like that. It was a joint 5 venture. 6 Q. Between yourself and Mr. Reardon? 7 A, That is correct. 8 Q. Between 1956 and 1958, were you 9 employed solely by New England Insulation? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Did you have any otherjob 12 responsibilities other than your work at New 13 England Insulation in that time frame? 14 A. No. 15 Qt And between 1958 and 1962, were you 16 involved in any way with the work -- with work at 17 Insulation Specialties? IS A. I wasn't directly involved. I would go 19 over as an individual and use their equipment 20 from time to time. 21 Q. For what purpose? 22 A. If I wanted to - they had some saws. 23 and if I wanted to cut something up, I would go 24 over there to cut it up. Eppley Court Reporting JUL-1 1-03 15 = 02 FROM = PWHD Theodore Brodie ID = 7572432770 Pamela Ondik, et al vs, ACandS, Inc., et al Volume One PAGE 1 2/25 December 5,20C 41 1 Q. So, between 195S and 1962, did you have 2 any other job responsibilities other than your 3 work for New England Insulation and the 4 occasional visit to Insulation Specialties? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Have you ever had any duties or 7 responsibilities with regard to Insulation Supply 8 Corp.? 9 A- Not directly, no. 10 Q. Indirectly, what types ofduties or 11 responsibilities have you had for Insulation 12 Supply Corp.? 13 A- As a CEO and concern with financing, et 14 cetera. Administrative, I guess would be the 15 bust way to characterize it. 16 Q, So, you never had any day-to-day job 17 responsibilities for Insulation Supply Corp.? 18 A. No, I did not. 19 Q. Between 1962 and 1978, did you have any 20 job responsibilities, other than your work at New 21 England Insulation and what you've testified to 22 about - strike that. 23 Between 1962 and 1978, can you tell me 24 what job responsibilities you held? 43 1 Q. Okay. Let's backtrack. Insulation 2 Specialties from 1962 to 1978, how much time as a 3 percentage were you spending for that company? 4 A Maybe 1 percent. 5 Q. So, it was very little you were doing 6 for Insulation Specialties? 7 A. Hardly anything. There were other 8 people running it, including my then wife. 9 Q. What was your then wife's name? 10 A Judith. 11 Q. And Judith was running it with Mr. 12 Morello? 13 A Mr. Morello had died by then. 14 Q. When did Mr. Morello die? 15 A '62 or'63, I don't have the exact 16 date now. 17 Q. Who ran it from'62 to'78? IS A. When it was Closed out, liquidated. 19 came in, Judith did. 20 Q. And did she own it up until -- did she 21 run it up until the mid '80s when its assets were 22 combined with Insulation Supply Corp.? 23 A. No, she ran it until, I think, '72, 24 somewhere in there. That's an approximation. 42 I A. I held them at New England Insulation. 2 Q. Did you have any job responsibilities 3 in that time frame for Insulation Specialties? 4 A. Strictly administrative. 5 Q. Can you tell me in an average workweek 6 how much time would be devoted to Insulation 7 Specialties in that time frame? 8 A. Not really. 9 Q. Would it be more than an hour? 10 A. I couldn't You know, it's part of 11 running a whole group of companies, and you can't 12 delineate I spend an hour on this and an hour on 13 that, et cetera. 14 Q, Are you able to, by way of percentage. 15 estimate how much time was spent for New England 16 Insulation versus Insulation Specialties? 17 A Maybe 10,15 percent, something like 18 Hut 19 Q. Spent for Insulation Specialties? 20 A Yes. Not Insulation Specialties. You 21 said Insulation Supply. 22 Q. Well, I was talking about Insulation 23 Specialties Erst 24 A I heard Insulation Supply. 44 1 Q. Who ran it between'72 and the mid 2 '80s? . 3 A. I think it was under the direction of 4 Mr. Richard Watts and Mr. Antonino, Vincent 5 Antonino. 6 Q. Are either ofthose gentlemen with us 7 today? S A. Yes, they are. They're not with the 9 company, but they're with us. 10 Q. Are they with Insulation Supply Coip. 11 today? 12 A. As far as I know, they're unemployed. 13 Retired. 14 Q. As of today, what companies do you have 15 an ownership interest in? 16 A New England Insulation and A.F. 17 Underhill. 18 Q, Any others? 19 A. No, 20 Q. Do you know who owns Insulation Supply 21 Corp. today? 22 A. It doesn't exist. 23 Q. When did it cease to exist? 24 A. That's hard to say. JUL-1 1-03 15 = 03 FROM = PWHD ID: 7572492770 Pamela Ondik, et al vs. ACandS, lncT? et al Theodore Broriie Volume One PAGE 1 December 5,2000 45 1 Q. Cart you give me the decade? 2 A. 1 think it ceased to exist around 1980 3 - wait a minute. Yeah, 1986. 4 Q. In [he mid '80s, Insulation 5 Specialties ' assets were combined with Insulation 6 Supply Corp. When Insulation Supply Corp- ceased 7 to exist somewhere around 1986, were their assets S combined with another company? 9 A. Yes. 10 0- Which company? 11 A. National Energy Industries, Inc. 12 Q. Does that company exist today? 13 A- No. 14 Q. Nadonal Energy Industries, Inc. is 15 different from National Energy, Inc., correct? 16 A. That is correct 17 Q. Who owned National Energy Industries, 18 Inc.? 19 A. My son, Glenn Brodie. 20 Q. When did that company cease to exist? 21 A. I believe it was 1991. 22 Q. And were that company's assets 23 transferred in any way to any other company? 24 A, No, they filed Chapter 11 or 7, I'm not 1 A. Richard Sheehan. 2 Q. Does he have a title with New England 3 Insulation? 4 A. Controller. 5 Q. How long has Mr. Sheehan been with the 6 company? 7 A. Approximately nine or 10 years. 8 Q. Prior to Mr. Sheehan, who was . 9 responsible for keeping the business records at 10 New England Insulation? 11 A. Mr. Sheehan wasn't responsible for the 12 whole 10 years. Mr. Hagen, H*A-G-E-N, first name 13 Halvor, H-A-L-V-O-R. 14 Q. Can you tell me the time frame that Mr. 15 Halvor (sic) was responsible for keeping the 16 business records? 17 A. Mr. Hagen. 18 Q. Mr. Hagen. I'm sony. 19 A. I have to stop to think. Probably 20 about 1994 to 19 -- midway through *98. 21 Q. And is that when Mr. Sheehan took over? 22 A. The keeping of the records, yes. 23 Q. Prior to Mr. Hagen, who was responsible 24 for the business records of the company? 46 1 sure which. 2 Q. Th<iy went bankrupt? 3 A. They went bankrupt. A Q. Has. New England Insulation owned any 5 Other companies Other than the ones that you've 6 described here today? 7 A. I don't believe so. 8 Q. Is there anyone with New England 9 Insulation today whose work or association with 10 New England Insulation predates yours? 11 A. No, 12 Q. And is there anyone still living who 13 might have more knowledge than you regarding the 14 coiporate history ofNew England Insulation? 15 A. No. 16 Q, Is there anyone still living who might 17 have more knowledge thar> you regarding the work 18 done by New England Insulation? 19 A. Not to my knowledge. 20 Q. How many people are employed by New 21 England Insulation today? 22 A- Approximately 120. 23 Q. Who is responsible today for keeping 24 the business records ofNew England Insulation? 48 1 A. Kenneth Volkema, V-Q-L-K-E-M-A, 2 Q. How long did he have that 3 responsibility? 4 A. About 15 or 20 years, something like 5 that. 6 Q. So, from somewhere between 1974 to 79 7 through '94? 8 . A. Yes, probably to '92. There was a 9 period there where the people were there but 10 weren't doing the job. You know, it took a 11 couple of years to fill that responsibility. 12 Q. Okay. Prior to Mr. Volkema, who was 13 responsible for keeping the company's business 14 records? 15 A. I can picture him. I gotta dredge that 16 out of my memory. I need a little bit more time 17 for that one. 18 Q. If it pops into your head, just let me 19 know. Prior to that person, do you know who was 20 responsible? 21 A. An outside accountant, Joseph Luther, 22 L-U-T-H-E-R. 23 Q. Do you know the time frame that Mr. 24 Luther was responsible for keeping the business Eoolev Court Reoorting JUL-1 1-03 15 = 03 FROM = PWHD Theodc.re Brodie ID = 7572432770 Pamela Ondik; et al vs.ACandS, Inc., et al Volume One PAGE 14/25 December 5,20C 49 ] re cords of the company? 2 A, It goes back a long way. 3 Q, Does it predate your operation? 4 A. Ob, yeah. 5 Q. So, it predates 1956? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And the person who you can't remember, S do you know how long that person had the 9 responsibility? 10 A. Well, be was there when I came on board 11 in *56, and -- Roscoe, Mr, Roscoe. And he died, 12 I believe, in about 1970, late '60s. When he 13 lift, Mr. Volkema came on board. It was a 14 seamless transition. 15 Q. So, when Mr, Roscoe passed away, Mr. 16 Volkema assumed responsibility for the business 17 records? IS A. He did within a month or so. 19 Q, Okay. And were Mr. Luther and Mr. 20 Roscoe sort of co-respOnsible for any period of 21 time? 22 A. This predates '56, but my understanding 23 from Mr. Swanson was that he had a secretary or 24 himself or somebody was assigned to keep track of 51 1 Q. What types -- you mentioned as one 2 category of records kept records of projects? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. What type of information was kept in 5 regard to projects? 6 A. What our costs were relative to that 7 project, and it also contained the estimate on 8 which we sold the job, the brochures that were 9 used for submittals. Normal job records. 10 Q. Would those records reflect the 11 location ofthe job? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q, Would they reflect the customer? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q, Would they reflect the date the job was 16 done? 17 A. Yes. IS Q, And would they reflect the work that 19 was done as part of the job? 20 A. Yes, and the specifications under which 21 we worked or under which they worked. 22 Q. Was there a document retention policy 23 in place that you know of in 1956 in terms ofhow 24 long records were maintained? so 1 the labor and materials being used, and Mr. 2 L uther would come in once a month and do an 3 interim statement and then come in at the end of 4 the year and do a full statement He was not a 5 CPA, but he was an accountant 6 Q. In 1956 when you began with the 7 company, where were the business records kept? 8 A. 839 Albany Street Boston. 9 Q. Do you know what records were 10 maintained by the company in 1956? 11 A, There were the account receivable 12 records, the account payable records, the payroll 13 records, the records of all of the projects that 14 were worked in terms of who had worked on them 15 and so on and so forth. Bank records, insurance 16 records, you know, the usual corporate records. 17 Q. And where at 839 Albany Street were IS they kept? ' 19 A. In the building. 20 Q. Did they have a separate storage room 21 for them? 22 A. The current records were obviously In 23 the office, the older records were, I think, 24 scored in the basement 52 1 A. No. This is a small company. 2 Q. So, pretty much everything was kept? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q, Where are the business records for the 5 company kept today? 6 A. Mostly in our office and there is a 7 separate storage facility in Canton where Older S records are kept 9 Q. How far back do the records in the 10 office go approximately? 11 A. We keep about two to three years' worth 12 in the office. 13 Q, And the storage facility in Canton, do 14 you know how old the records that are maintained 15 there are? 16 A. Well, there's two storage facilities. 17 The oldest goes back to approximately 1967. 18 There may be some in there from '65. 19 Q. And what became, ifyou know, of the 20 records from 1956 to 1965 or '67? 21 A. The records from 1935 to 1970 were -- 22 no, 1967, were disposed of. 23 Q. When was that, do you know? 24 A. When we moved the company from Albany JUL-1 1-03 15 = 04 FROM = PWHD ID = 7572432770 Theodore Brodie Pamela Ondik, et al vs. ACandS, Inc., et al Volume One PAGE 1 5/25 December 5,2000 53 1 Street to Canton, which was July of 1970. 2 Q. During your time with the company, 3 since the move from 1970, have you seen any 4 records tliat predate 1967, perhaps 1965? 5 A I have not 6 Q. Have any records which predate 1965 7 been provided to you through the course of any of 8 the lawsuits your company has been involved in? 9 A. 1 don't remember whether they have or 10 not , 11 Q. Tie records from 1965 or '67 forward, 12 are those complete records of New England 13 Insulation? 14 A. I have no way of knowing that 15 Q. Ocher than your personal knowledge, do 16 you have any way ofverifying what work New 17 England Insulation may or may not have done prior 18 to 1965 or 1967? 19 A. No, I don't 20 Q. Do you have or does New England 21 Insulation presently have any index or other type 22' of orgaanjation form for the older records, the 23 ; 1967 forward records? 24' V A. We don't have an index form. There is 55 1 obtain a contract for insulation work? 2 A. In a thumbnail, we would become aware 3 of various projects that were proposed to be 4 built, either by requests from our customers Or 5 through the Dodge Company listing of projects, or 6 on government projects we would read the -- what 7 would you call it? -- bid proposal forms that 8 were sent out by either the state or federal 9 government 10 At that point we would decide whether 11 we wanted to estimate on that particular job or 12 not, depending upon what our workload was, what 13 the project was, and whether we had a good 14 opportunity of being included on the bid list and 15 a good opportunity of obtaining the contract. 16 Once we had done that, then we would do the 17 estimating and quote the project and then follow 18 up in a sales function. 19 Q. Were there jobs in which you had to be 20 invited, so to speak, to submit a bid? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And were there also jobs in which you 23 could submit a bid without being invited by the 24 premises' owners? 54 l a layout in the storage facility that was drawn 2 by Mr. Jonathan Braverman that used to be with 3 the firm of Rivkind, Baker Sc Golden, which 4 indicated where the records for various years 5 were. 6 Q. Arid who maintains that drawing? 7 A. There's only one copy of it and I have S it 9 Q, And do you know if the storage facility 10 is still in die layout as was drawn up by Mr. 11 Braverman? 12 A. I don't have the slightest idea. I've 13 never beea in it 14 Q. Who would be the person most 15 knowledgeable regarding the layout of the older 16 document1; as they exist today? 17 A. Possibly Mr. Sheehan. 18 Q. Is Mr. Sheehan still with the company? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. He's the controller? 21 A. That is correct 22 Q. When you began with the company in 23 1956, can you tell me the procedure by which New 24 England Emulation would seek to and ultimately 56 1 A. That's correct 2 Q. Can you tell me in a nutshell what type 3 of paperwork was generated in the bid procedure? 4 A. Well, it would depend upon the size of 5 the project, obviously. But do you want It by 6 inch or -- . 7 Q. Can you ~ well, let's start with the 8 general categories of the types of documents that 9 would be created in a bid process. 10 A. Well, first of alL, it would be the 11 takeoff of the physical quantities of whatever 12 the project was, and that could range from two 13 eight and a half by 11 sheets to as many as 14 several hundred. 15 Q. And a takeoff would be looking at 16 specifications and drawings and extrapolating the 17 materials that were required? 18 A. It would be measuring the amount of 19 pipe or duct work or equipment that was a part of 20 the project and recording them on these sheets. 21 Q. Okay. What other types of documents 22 were created? 23 A Well, then you would summarize those on 24 to what is referred to as a setup sheet, and that ______________ __________________ ----------------------Cmirf J?Annrttnc JUL-11-03 15 = 04 FROM = PWHD Theodore Brodie ID = 7572432770 Pamela Ondik, et al vs. ACandS, Inc., et al Volume One PAGE 13/25 December 5, 2Q( 57 1 'w ould usually be one or two legal she -- well, 2 larger than legal she document, roughly that by 3 that, to give you an idea of size. 4 Q. 11 by 17, somewhere in there? 5 A- Yeah. Right. 6 Q. And what information was included on 7 tiie setup sheet? 8 A. It would be a summary of the quantities 9 and then reducing those and converting it to the 10 materials to be used and then the pricing of the 11 materials and the amount of labor that would be 12 used by segments, the total of the labor, costs 13 of the labor, and finally the suggested overhead 14 and profit It would be a summary of all the 15 costs of the project 16 Q. What other documents, other than the 17 tikeoff and setup sheet, would be created in the 18 bid process? 19 A. That would be it Well, you would have 20 a letter quoting the price. 21 Q, And would these materials be included 22 ia the project records that were kept by the 23 company? 24 A- They would be on the estimate, so you 53 1 the specification, and generally also the 2 application detail of how the materials were 3 going to be installed. 4 Q, Would the customer give notification in 5 writing of the acceptance of the submittals? 6 A. They would, 7 Q. Ifa customer rejected the submittals 8 of materials, what, if anything, would New 9 England Insulation do then? 10 A. We would talk with the design engineer, 11 who was usually a sub to the architect, and try 12 to determine exactly what it was that he was 13 trying to describe within his specification, and 14 we would then come up with materials that would 15 meet it or convince them that the materials we 16 had submitted did meet it. 17 Q, So, you were trying to figure out what 18 they wanted and trying to make it fit? 19 A. That's correct. 20 Q, After the submittals, were any 21 documents generated pursuant to a contract? 22 A. We would then make up a work order to 23 be used on the jobsite by the workmen, which 24 would take the data and information from the 53 1 would have the record of what was estimated, yes. 2 Q. Ifyou weren't awarded the bid, did you 3 keep these documents? 4 A. Generally, only for a year or two, in 5 case something went wrong on the project and we 6 were called in. The successful bidder went 7 bankrupt, went out of business, whatever, but 8 men we would dispose of them. 9 Q. Would you receive a written 10 notification as to whether your bid was accepted 11 or not, typically? 12 A- Typically, yes. 13 Q. Once a bid was accepted and New England 14 losulation began work, what types of documents 15 would be generated pursuant to a contract? 16 A. Well, the first thing we would do would 17 be make submittals for the materials and the 18 applications of those materials to the customer 19 for approval. 20 Q, What types of information were you 21 c onveying to the customer in the submittals of 22 materials? 23 A, Who the manufacturer was, the 24 thicknesses we were being - submitted to meet i 60 1 submittals and convert that to what we expected 2 to be done in a lot more detail than was shown in 3 the specification. 4 Q. So, it was more specific instructions 5 to your workers about what to do on the job? 6 A. That's correct 7 Q. Any other documents created other than 8 the work order and submittals once you had the 9 acceptance of a bid? 10 A. Well, then you would keep copies of the 11, invoices for material, we would keep copies of 12 the payroll, weekly payroll, signed time sheets, 13 and the accounting record for recording all of 14 the costs. 15 Q, What form was the -- 16 A. And then copies of the bills that we 17 sent to the customer and copies of the checks we 18 received. 19 Q. What format was the accounting record 20 kept in? 21 A. It changed as the equipment used for 22 the accounting industry changed. It was done by 23 hand and then it was on a Burroughs machine and 24 then it was on an IBM computer- JUL-1 1-03 15 = 05 FROM = PWHD ID: 7572492770 Pamela Ondik, et al vs. ACandS, Inc., et al Theodore Brodie Volume One PAGE December 5,2000 61 1 Q. Do you know approximately when the 2 accounting records switched from being done by 3 hand to the Burroughs machine? 4 A. About the time when Mr. Volkema came to 5 work. In tact, it was the time when Mr. Volkema 6 came to work, which was about the early '70s, 1 7 think. Lata 69 or 70, somewhere in there. 8 Q. Would all of the materials you've just 9 discussed be kept in the project records? 10 A. All - they wouldn't be kept together. 11 I think the accounting records are in a separate 12 file, but the other -- the accounting records 13 would be the copies of the invoices, et cetera. H The job records, foreman reports, et cetera, 13 would be in a separate location in a storage 16 facility. 17 Q. Can you delineate for me exactly, of IS the documents we've discussed, which ones were 19 kept as job records and which ones were kept as 20 accounting records? 21 A- I th ought I just did. 22 Q. Well, you mentioned invoices, et 23 cetera. Thu accounting record, the one that was 24 done by hand until Mr. Volkema came, would that 63 1 Q, So, what records exist are in one of 2 those two storage locations? 3 A. That is correct. 4 Q. And at the time those records were 5 created, the accounting records and job records, 6 to the best of your knowledge, were kept 7 separately? 8 A. When they were created, that is 9 correct. 10 Q. And you are not aware as to whether or 11 not they were then combined when they were placed 12 into storage? 13 A. That is correct 14 Q, So, in storage they may either be 15 separate accounting and job records for each 16 project or they may be combined? 17 A, That is correct. 18 Q, The accounting records that are kept, 19 copies of bills sent to the customer, were they 20 included under that category? 21 A. Yeah. 22 Q, Copies of checks received from the 23 customer? 24 A. That would be accounting record. 62 1 be kept with the accounting records? 2 A. That is the accounting record. 3 Q. Okay. When you're saying--I've got 4 sort of a top heading ofproject records that 5 were maintained by New England Insulation after a 6 job was completed. 7 A. Uh-huh, 8 Q. Under that, if I understand your 9 testimony, you've got accounting records and job 10 records wjjjch are kept in separate places; is 11 that correct? 12 A. They are now and they were then, and I 13 believe -- t don't know whether they were put 14 together when they went into the storage facility 15 or not 16 Q. When you say they are now, you mean 17 present practice of New England Insulation? 18 A. Right 19 Q. So, between, say, '56 and '74, okay, 20 those records are no longer maintained on site by 21 -- what rec ords you have are no longer maintained 22 on site by New England Insulation* correct? 23 A. They're not in our building, that is 24 correct 64 1 Q. How about the takeoff? 2 A. That would be a job record. 3 Q. Setup sheet? 4 A. Job. 5 Q. The letter quoting the price to the 6 customer? 7 A. Job, 8 Q. Written notification of acceptance or 9 rejection from the customer? 10 A, Both. 11 Q. Submittals? 12 A. Both, 13 Q. Acceptance or rejection notification of 14 the submittals? 15 A. Acceptance was both, rejection would 16 have been job record. 17 Q. Work order? IS A. Job. 19 Q. Invoices for material? 20 A. Accounting. 21 Q. Weekly payroll and time sheets? 22 A Accounting, 23 Q. Are there any other records that you 24 can think of right now other than the ones we've Eoolev Court Reuortins 11-03 15:05 FROM:PWHD Theodore Brodie ID:7572432770 Pamela Ondik, et al vs; ACandS, Inc., et aJ Volume One PAGE 10/25 December 5S 20i 65 1 discussed that would have been created pursuant 2 to a contract between -- let's say between 1956 3 and '74? 4 A- 1 think that just about covers 5 everything. 6 Q. Okay. Ifyou think of anything else. 7 let me know. Did New England Insulation, between 8 15156 and 1974, ever sell any insulation materials 9 to any other customers apart from a contract for 10 work to be done? 1 11 A. After 1970, yes. Prior to 1970, only 12 occasionally. 13 Q. And can you tell me prior to 1970 under 14 what circumstances New England Insulation would IS sell materials apart from under a contract? 16 A. We, from time to time, would get a 17 phone call from one of our competitors who needed 18 material and he needed six feet of a certain size 19 or 12, comparably small quantities so he could 20 complete bis job or not hold up somebody else. 21 ai id he called to see if we had it, and ifwe did, 22 we would sell it to him. Occasionally, that 23 could happen from - could come from any source. 24 Tnc homeowner might call and say I've got three 61 I A. I would practically guarantee you we do 2 not. 3 Q, Okay. Who would be the person at New 4 England Insulation most knowledgeable about 5 whether those would exist? 6 A- Nobody. 7 Q. Nobody would be most knowledgeable? 8 A, Well, me. 9 Q. Other than you? 10 A. No. 11 Q. When a sale was made to a competitor or 12 some other third party, how would the purchaser 13 come to obtain the materials? 14 A. Quite often they would come in their 15 own vehicle. 16 Q. And pick them up? 17 A. Pick it up. 18 Q. Prior to 1970, did New England 19 Insulation deliver any materials that it had 20 sold, again, not under a contract? 21 A. It may have, but it would have been 22 rare. 23 Q. And after 1970, you've testified that 24 the sales were somehow greater than prior to 66 1 feet in my basement that's freezing up, do you 2 have any pipecovering for it? And we would sell 3 him three to six feet or something. It was real 4 incidental stuff. 5 Q. Prior to 1970, did New England 6 Insulation maintain any store front or retail 7 location? 8 A. We did not. 9 Q. Did New England Insulation advertise 10 prior to 1970 for die sale of any insulation 11 materials? 12 A. Not to roy knowledge. 13 Q. How is it that competitors or the 14 general public would come to know that they could 15 obtain materials from New England Insulation? 16 MR. LAVOIE: Objection. 17 MR. RUSSELL: Go ahead 18 A. We had ads, I guess you call them ads, 19 in the Yellow Pages primarily as a contractor. 20 and so they would have picked our name up under 21 insulation in the Yellow Pages. 22 Q. Do you know if New England Insulation 23 httf today copies ofany Yellow Page ads prior to 24 1970? 68 1 1970? Again, sales apart from a contract. 2 A. That is correct 3 Q. Can you tell me the circumstances under 4 which the sales increased? 5 A. We had moved from the converted stable 6 on Albany Street to a distribution building that 7 we built in Canton and decided to go into the 8 distribution business at that point. 9 Q. And from that point forward, did New 10 England Insulation maintain some sort of store 11 front or retail location? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Did they have an office in which 14 persons could walk off the street and purchase 15 materials? 16 A. No, not in Canton. 17 Q. In any location? 18 A. No. 19 Q. So, after 1970, how would customers 20 come to purchase materials apart from a contract 21 from New England Insulation? 22 A. We had salesmen who were out trying to 23 sell material. 24 Q. Who were they trying to sell the JUL-11-03 15:06 FROM = PWHD ID = 7572402770 Pamela Oadik, et al vs. ACandS, Inc.3 et al Theodore Brodie Volume One PAGE 1 December 5, 2000 69 1 material to? 2 A. Our competitors, insulation contractors 3 who were not our competitors, metal building 4 erectors, industrial plants, hardware 5 distribut ors, plumbing and supply house 6 distributors, small plumbing and heating firms 7 that were installing their own. That's basically 8 it. 9 Q. And persons could still call up New 10 England insulation and order materials?, 11 A. Yes, 12 Q, V ou didn't have to get it from a 13 salesman after 1970? 14 A, Well15 Q. Y ou didn't have to get it from an 16 outside salesman? 17 A. Bight. IS Q. You could call up the company directly? 19 A. You could. 20 Q. But that wasn't typical? 21 A. There was some of that, yes. 22 Q. Do you know ifprior to 1970, New 23 England Insulation ever sold any materials, apart 24 from a contract, to any Boston Edison facility? 71 1 we never had. We never did. 2 Q. That you had never worked? 3 A. Right. 4 Q. But on the topic of selling materials 5 to them, did that specifically come up? 6 A As we were not in the distribution 7 business, I don't believe it did per se. 8 Q, Do you want to take a break? 9 A. I'm fine so far. 10 Q. Sir, can you tell me between 1970 and a 1974 whether New England Insulation ever sold any 12 products, apart from a contract, to any Boston 13 Edison facility? 14 A. I don't believe we did. 15 Q. Prior to 1970, how were records kept 16 regarding sales to customers apart from 17 contracts? 18 A. They would have been in the Accounting 19 Department, and a copy of the sale document, 20 which would essentially be the bill, would be in 21 the Accounting Department. 22 Q. Between 1956 and 1970, who at New 23 England Insulation would have had as part of 24 their job duty receiving calls for products, 70 1 A. Not to my knowledge. 2 Q. And do you have any knowledge a$ to 3 whether, prior to 1956, any such sales took 4 place? 5 A. From my conversations with Mr. Swanson, 6 I would say no. 7 Q. In your conversations with Mr. Swanson, 8 did you ask him specifically whether or not New 9 England Insulation ever sold material to Boston 10 Edison? 11 A- I don't believe we ever got in a 12 discussion where I'm asking specifically about 13 any particular customer. It would be a general 14 conversation about what the industry had done and 15 what it wa; doing and what New England's place in 16 it was. 17 Q. So, unless, as part ofthose 18 conversations die name of a particular customer 19 came up, you wouldn't have had occasion to ask 20 him specifics about any particular customer? 21 A It only came up, specifically Boston 22 Edison, when we were -- I was looking at the 23 possibility of working in their plants, and be 24 said we never have, and I took him at his word, 12 1 apart from a contract, and filling those orders? 2 A Mr. Roscoe, until his death. What was 3 the outside date? '74? 4 Q, Right now it's '56 to 70. 5 A, And after he died, it would have been 6 Mr. Watts. , 7 Q. Do you know if the part of the 8 documents that are kept in storage for New 9 England Insulation includes records of sales of 10 materials apart from contracts? 11 A. It would. 12 Q. If a customer purchased materials from 13 New England Insulation during the time period 14 that Mr. Roscoe was handling that responsibility. 15 how would, if at all, the information about what 16 customers were purchasing material make its way 17 to you? 18 A Account receivable. 19 Q, Account receivable? 20 A. I receive a list of our account 21 receivable ever month, so I would know whether 22 they were on the account receivable listing or 23 not. 24 Q. Was an account receivable generated if Pniirt PArtfiftirifY JUL-11-03 15 = 06 FROM=PWHD Theodore Brodie ID = 7572432770 Pamela Ondik^et al vs, ACandS, Inc,, et al Volume One PAGE 20/25 December 5,20C 73 I the customer paid cash? 2 A. They rarely paid cash. No, if they 3 paid cash. It wouldn't have been, no. 4 Q. If a competitor purchased products, and 5 those products were, again, not under a contract. 6 independent sales, and those were to be used on a 7 jobsite, would the jobsite information be 8 ieflected at all in New England Insulation's 9 account receivable records? 10 A, No. - 11 Q. So, the only information New England 12 Insulation would keep as far as the outside sales 13 go would be the name of the customer? 14 A. That's correct 15 Q, So, if a competitor, a competing 16 insulation contractor, purchased materials and 17 lhose materials were for use at a Boston Edison 18 location, you wouldn't have any reason to know 19 That? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Okay. Did New England Insulation ever 22 :nanufacture any insulation products? 23 A, No. 24 Q. Did New England Insulation ever have 75 1 first sold or Supplied an asbeStOS-COntaining 2 material? 3 A. Probably 1935. 4 Q, And when did New England Insulation 5 last sell an asbestos-containing product? 6 MR. RUSSELL: I object. That's a 7 different question. Your first question was 8 sold or supplied Now you're asking sold. 9 Do you want sold or supplied? 10 MR. SHEPARD: Let me strike the U question. 12 Q. When did New England Insulation last 13 sell or supply an asbestos-containing product? 14 A. Essentially, we stopped purchasing any 15 asbestos-containing product in -- right around 16 1970. My best guess as to when our warehouse was 17 totally clear of any asbestos-containing material 18 is probably 1971. I do know that we took a lot 19 of asbestos-containing product aud took it to the 20 dump in that period of '70, late '70. 21 Q, And why was it that you were dumping a 22 lot of asbestos-containing material between '70 23 and 71? 24 A. Because of our knowledge of the 74 1 iuiy relabeling or rebranding agreements with any 2 manufacturers? 3 A. No, 4 Q. Did New England Insulation ever sell 5 iiny insulation products that had the New England 6 insulation name on them? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Between 1956 and 1974, were there any 9 customers that New England Insulation refused to 10 sell products to? 11 A. I'm sure there were, but I couldn't 12 tell you who they were. 13 Q. Can you tell me the circumstances under 14 which New England Insulation would refuse to sell 15 products? 16 A. Because they didn't pay their bills. 17 Q, Any other reasons? 18 A. No. I think any other reason would 19 have been illegal. 20 Q, Did New England Insulation ever sell or 21 supply any insulation materials that contained 22 asbestos? 23 A, We did. 24 Q. Do you know when New England Insulation 76 I problems of asbestos. 2 Q. And you were, therefore, not selling 3 them or supplying them to customers? 4 A. And I didn't want it in the warehouse. 5 I didn't want the people in the warehouse to be 6 exposed. 7 Q. Can you tell me the first sale or 8 supply that you can recall of any product that 9 contained asbestos to any Boston Edison facility? 10 MR. LAVOIE: Objection. 11 MR. SHEPARD: Grounds? 12 MR, LAVOIE: It's a compound question. 13 I don't like the form of it. 14 MR. SHEPARD: You can answer the 15 question. 16 A Sold or supplied? 17 Q. Right. 18 A Repeat it again. 1 got lost in that. 19 Q. Sure. Let me break it down into two. 20 Can you tell me the first time you can recall 21 that New England Insulation sold any asbestos22 containing product to any Boston Edison location? 23 MR. RUSSELL: I'm going to object. I'm 24 going to ask what you mean by "sold." Do A i Y\ JUL-11-03 15 = 06 FROM=PWHD ID:7572492770 Pamela Ondik, et al vs. ACandS, Inc., et al Theodore Brodie Volume One PAGE 21/25 December 5,2000 77 1 you mean independent of a contract? 2 MR, SHEPARD: Yes. 3 A, To my knowledge, we didn't. 4 Q. Can you tell me the first time that New 5 England Insulation ever supplied, pursuant to a 6 contract, any asbestos-containing product to any 7 Boston Edison location? 8 A. For Unit 1 at New Boston- I believe 9 that was '65 or *66. I'm not sure of the date, 10 but I know the plant. I know the project. 11 Q. And to the best of your recollection, 12 that's the first involvement that New England 13 Insulation had with Boston Edison that involved 14 asbestos? 15 A. Containing materials, yes. 16 Q. To your knowledge, did New England 17 Insulation ever supply any nonasbestosIS containing material to Boston Edison prior to 19 that business transaction on Unit 1 in New 20 Boston? 21 A, Not to my knowledge. 22 Q. So, to the best of your knowledge, this 23 is the first business transaction New England 24 Insulation has had with Boston Edison? 79 1 A I knew you were going to ask that. I 2 don't remember the lineal footage. 3 Q, Would that information be reflected on 4 the job records? 5 A Yes. 6 Q. Do you know how long New England 7 Insulation was working on Unit 1 at New Boston? 8 A, 1 think we did it in about nine or 10 9 months. That's to the best of my recollection. 10 Q. And how many days a week over that 11 nine- or 10-month span? 12 A. Five-day week. 13 Q. Do you know how large your crew was on 14 site? 15 A. I can guess. 16 Q. Well, 1 don't want you to guess. Maybe 17 estimate? IS A, Ah right. 1 can estimate. That's the 19 same thing. I think we probably peaked at around 20 20 men. 21 Q. Was that five-day week continuous over 22 the nine- or 10-month span? 23 A. The five-day week was, yes. 24 Q, Okay. Were your employees who were at 78 1 ' A Unit 1 at New Boston, yes, that's 2 correct 3 Q, Can you tell me what, if any, job 4 responsibilities New England Insulation had in 5 relation to Unit 1 at New Boston? 6 A. We were the insulation subcontractor to 7 Stone & Webster who was the designer and agent 8 for Boston Edison on that plant, on that unit. 9 Q. And pursuant to that contract, what 10 work did New England Insulation do? 11 A Wt insulated the piping and equipment 12 portion of that unit We did not insulate the 13 boiler or the stack. 14 Q. We re you ever present while New England 15 Insulation employees were working at Unit 1 in 16 New Boston? 17 A. Quite oftenl.S Q, Can you tell me approximately how much 19 piping was insulated by New England Insulation? 20 A All of the non-hoiler-related piping. 21 The boiler-related piping only goes to the second 22 valve. 23 Q. Do you have any idea in lineal footage 24 how much pipe that involved? 80 1 Unit 1 in New Boston in any way identified -- 2 strike that. 3 Did your employees on thatjob have 4 uniforms? 5 A No. 6 Q. Did they have -- did they wear anything 7 that identified them as New England Insulation 8 employees? 9 A No. 10 Q. When they arrived at the L Street 11 location for work, how did they gain access to 12 the building? 13 MR. LAVOIE: Objection. 14 A They did not arrive at the L Street 15 location. 16 Q. Where did they arrive? 17 A. New Boston Station. 18 Q, And do you know where at New Boston 19 they had to report? 20 A. They went in through the main gate, 21 which is toward the waterway, that faces over 22 towards the old Army base. 23 Q. Pursuant to that project, would they 24 ever have, your men now employed at Unit 1 in New t1 ^ n i n .*. JUL-1 1-03 15 = 07 FROM = PWHD Theodore Brodie ID = 7572432770 Pamela Ondik, et al vs. ACandS, Inc., et al Volume One PAGE 22/25 December 5,20C 81 I Boston, ever do any work in the L Street portion? 2 At 3 Q. Other than Kayio, which you've already 4 mentioned, what asbestos-containing products were 5 used by New England Insulation at New Boston Unit 6 1? 7 MR, HOLBROOK: Objection. S A. There would have been some cements. 9 That's basically it 10 MR, SHEPARD: John, can I have that 11 document that you have? 12 MR. RUSSELL: Yes. 13 Q. What type of cements were used at New 14 Boston 1? 15 A. It would have been 66, Powerhouse. The Id 66 was Eagle-Picher. Powerhouse was BEH, Baldwin 17 Erhet Hill. 1 think there was some Ruberoid 7K 18 asbestos. That would have been it Probably 19 that's it There may have been a few others, but 20 they would have been similar to those cements in 21 function* R&I may have had some in there. R&J 22 stands for Refractories & Insulation. 23 Q. Was Kayio pipecovering and block used 24 on thatjob? 83 1 attached to the pipes at New Boston I ? 2 A. Depending upon the size of the pipe, it 3 was either secured with a 14 gauge annealed iron 4 wire or I think it was -- I'm trying to 5 remember -- half inch wide 0*015 stainless steel 6 banding, and the very large, the hot reheats. 7 were done with a three-quarter inch stainless S steel 0.015 banding. 9 Q. How were thejoints - strike that. 10 How were the elbows, bends in the pipe, 11 insulated on that project? 12 A. They were prefabricated by New England 13 Insulation and installed in segments that would 14 not weigh more than 80 pounds. 15 Q. Would cement be used on the elbows on 16 thatjob? 17 A. On that job, I don't believe -- no, we 18 didn't. The elbows, when they were 19 prefabricated, were smooth so that cement was not 20 required* That's on the elbows from four inch 21 and larger. Underneath four inch, cements would 22 have been used. 23 Q. And how were the elbows that were four 24 inch and larger attached to the pipe? 82 1 A Itwas. 2 Q, Other than the Kayio and the cements 3 you've described, can you recall any other 4 asbestos-containing products that were used by 5 New England Insulation on that jobsite? 6 A I don't believe there were any other. 7 Q. Was the Kayio wrapped with cloth by New 8 England Insulation? ' 9 A By New England Insulation? No. 10 Q. Was the Kayio wrapped with cloth by any 11 other outfit? 12 A On that job, no. 13 Q. Prior to 1974, did New England 14 Insulation work on any jobs where there was 15 another outfit responsible for wrapping pipe 16 insulation that was installed by New England 17 Jasulation? 18 MR-LAKIN: Objection. 19 MR- RUSSELL: I object to that. You 20 can answer. 21 THE WITNESS: lean? 22 MR* RUSSELL: Yes, you can. 23 A Not to my knowledge. 24 Q, How was the Kayio pipe insulation 84 1 A, Primarily with wires, and the real 2 large -- the same procedures that were used on 3 the pipe* Banding and wires, depending upon the 4 size. 5 Q. On that project, was the pipe required 6 to be in -- strike that. 7 Did you have to paint the pipe after 8 you were done insulating it? 9 A- We did not. After? 10 Q. After you were done insulating the 11 pipe. 12 A, We couldn't get at the pipe. Once it's 13 insulated, you can't get at it 14 Q, After you were done insulating the 15 pipe, did you have to paint the pipe insulation? 16 A No. 17 Q, Did any outfit, to your knowledge, have 18 to paint the pipe insulation after you were done 19 insulating it? 20 A No. 21 Q, So, after you put on the pipe 22 insulation, was that what the finished product 23 looked like on New Boston 1? 24 A. No. JUL-1 1-03 15 = 07 FROM = PWHD ID: 7572492770 Pamela OriOik, et al vs. ACandS, Inc,* et al Theodore Bro<lie Volume One PAGE 23/25 December 5,2000 85 1 Q. Can you tell me what happened after you 2 were finished with your job that altered the 3 appearance of the pipe insulation? 4 A. We weren't finished. After that point, 5 we installed the 0.016 aluminum over the pipe and 6 the fittings. 7 Q. How was the aluminum attached to the 8 pipecoveriig? 9 A. On that project I believe it was 10 banded. There are two ways of doing it, and the 11 other one is putting screws on the lath* but on 12 that project 1 think we did it with bands. 13 Q. After the pipecovering was jacketed 14 with aluminum, was that finished as far as New 15 England Insulation was concerned? 16 A. That's correct 17 Q. Did New England Insulation have any job IS responsibilities on New Boston 2? 19 A. Yes,, we did. 20 Q. Caii you tell me what those were? 2L A. Exactly the same as what we had on Unit '22* 1. 23 Q. Did the materials used on Unit 2 differ 24. in any way from the materials used on Unit 1 ? * 87 1 and setting up for Unit 2. 2 Q. Can you give me an example of what a 3 minor repair might entail? 4 A. Other workmen might have walked on the 5 aluminum, stepped on it, used it as a ladder, so 6 we would have to remove that aluminum and put new 7 aluminum on if 8 Q, Would the minor repairs possibly entail 9 the repair of any of the pipecovering underneath 10 the aluminum? 11 MR. HUNT: Objection. 12 A. It could. 13 Q. Do you know whether the gentlemen who 14 remained on site between the construction of 1 15 and 2 ever did any repairs on any of the 16 pipecovering? 17 A. Yes, he did. IS Q. And do you know the circumstances 19 involved in that repair? Strike that 20 Why did he have to repair pipecovering? 21 A. Because Stone & Webster would have 22 requested us to perform a repair or a 23 modification to what had already been installed. 24 Q. How many repairs, to the best of your 86 1 A. They did not. 2 Q, Did the mariner in which the work was 3 carried out tiiffer in any way on Unit 2 as it was 4 on Unit 1? 5 A. It did not. 6 Q. How long was New England Insulation 7 involved in the New Boston 2 project? 8 A. Approximately the same length of time 9 as we were on Unit I. Total duplicate. 10 Q. How soon after the completion of Unit I 11 did New England Insulation begin working on Unit 12 2? 13 A* To the best ofmy memory, it was like 14 maybe a month, month and a half. We sort of went 15 from one right into the other. There was a 16 break, but I don't think it was very long. 17 Q. So, there was a period oftime between 1? 1 and 2 where there would be no New England 19 Insulation employees on site? 20 A. I wouldn't say no. I think our foreman 21 and one other were there throughout 22 Q, And what would the purpose ofthe 23 foreman ano one other person be there? 24 A. Probably for minor repairs to Unit 1 88 1 recollection, were performed by the gentlemen who 2 remained on site between 1 and 2? 3 A. That's impossible for me to answer 4 that, really. 5 Q. Do you have a specific repair -- strike 6 that. 7 Do you recall a specific instance in 8 which a repair was called for to the pipe 9 insulation in that time frame between New Boston 10 1 and 2? 11 A. Well, I have one, which is the invoice 12 that John Russell, Attorney Russell, showed me. 13 Q, I'm going to show you this document and 14 ask you if you recognize it? 15 . MJf SHEPARD: John, do you mind if we 16 mark that? 17 MR. RUSSELL: No. That's fine. IS A. I recognize it. 19 20 (Exhibit 1, Invoice, marked for 21 identification) 22 23 Q. Mr. Brodie, I ask you to look over 24 what's been marked as Exhibit 1 for the EdoIcv Court Reporting 11-03 15:00 FROM:PWHD Theodore Brodie 1D:7572402770 Pamela Ondik, et al vs. ACandS, Inc., el a! Volume One PAGE 24/25 December 5,20( 8$ 1 deposition, and tell me what work is called for 2 under that document? 3 A. There was called for -- in the fuel oil 4 room, which is where the fuel oil heater was, the 5 fuel oil piping would run out of the room outside 6 to connect to the fuel oil tank. They asked us 7 to remove the insulation that had been installed. 8 An electrical contractor was brought in to put 9 electric beat tracing on the pipe, and then we 10 reinsulated the pipe and rejacketed the pipe. 11 Q. Do yon know how long that repair, 12 r<imoval, and reinstallation process took place? 13 A. In terms of number of days? 14 Q. Yes. 15 A- Probably two -- two days, 16 Q. And is that independent recollection or 17 is that from your observations on the document IS tliat you're looking at? 19 A That's from observation. We had 16 20 hours for the foreman, so that's two days, and 21 112 hours for the asbestos workers, so he would 22 have had, what, probably four guys working for 23 him. 24 Q. While New England Insulation was 91 1 Q. On this particular project? 2 A. Those particular AFCOs, there was no 3 material. Obviously the material that was on 4 there was removed and put back on again. 5 Q. And is that an assumption or is that 6 your recollection ofwhat took place on this job? 7 A. That's my interpretation of that 8 document. 9 Q. Ifthis job that's reflected in Exhibit 10 1 involved the supply or sale of any insulation 11 material, would it be reflected in this document 12 or could it be in another document? 13 A. It would have been on that document. 14 Q, Based on your review of this document, 15 is this the complete record that New England 16 Insulation has as regard to this specific work? 17 A. It is. 18 Q. If this work involved the supply of 19 insulation, it would appear, you said, on an 20 authorized field change order; is that correct? 21 A. That is correct. 22 Q. Ifthat authorized field change order 23 had either been misplaced or removed from this 24 record, is there anywhere else in this document $>o 1 working on New Boston 2, sir -- 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. - would there be occasion to have to 4 conduct, perform any repairs on New Boston 1 ? 5 A There may have been, but I don't think 6 they were extensive. 7 Q. Okay. And I'm going to ask you to look S a; this document one more time and tell me where, 9 ifat all, in that document it indicates the 10 n Laterials that were used with that job? 11 A, That would have been indicated on what 12 we call an AFCO, and that stands for an 13 Authorized Field Change Order, and the materials 14 used would be listed on that form. 15 Q. Is that form in Exhibit 1? 16 A The form is here. Pm looking to see 17 inhere are any materials listed. As far as IS this particular form is concerned, it's relating 19 to labor only. On that particular invoice, I 20 should say. 21 Q. From your recollection, do you know if 22 any materials were supplied pursuant to the work 23 done on this project? 24 A. On that particular -- 92 1 where you would know that that document is 2 missing? 3 A. If it had been removed, I don't know 4 where it would have gone to, but it hasn't been 5 because the face bill refers to the AFCO numbers. 6 Q. Very good. So, the face bill here 7 refers to AFCO 1662,1663, and 1664? 8 A. That's correct 9 Q. So, based on your understanding of that 10 document, there would be no other AFCOs that 11 would have been billed to the company with regard 12 to that particular work? 13 A That is correct 14 Q. And had insulation materials been used 15 on that, is it, therefore, your testimony that it 16 would have been reflected in that face bill? 17 A, That is correct. 18 Q. Was there ever an occasion, while you 19 were employed at New England Insulation, that 20 they would have done work on a particular 21 project, for example, the one reflected in 22 Exhibit 1, where there would be two face bills, 23 one for the AFCOs with labor included on them and 24 another with AFCOs for materials? 1 JUL-11-03 15 = 00 FROM = PWHD ID= 7572492770 umvia vyjiuin, n. 44 vii, /\^.anu:>5 inc,, oi ui Theodore Brodie Volume One PAGE 2 December 5,2000 93 I A. No, the material is always placed on 2 the same AFCO as the labor, and on this 3 particular one there are two face bills, there's 4 not just one, so that you have five more AFCOs, 5 so there are a total of eight AFCOs here. 6 Q. AJI of which include labor only? 7 A. Labor only. S Q, Ai id it's your testimony that had 9 materials been supplied pursuant to that 10 particular job, the materials would have been 11 reflected on the same AFCOs as the labor? 12 A. Absolutely, 13 Q. Did New England Insulation do any 14 insulation work on any turbines at any Boston 15 Edison facilities prior to 1974? 16 A, Not to my knowledge. 17 Q. Sir, Fm going to show you a copy of IS your deposition in 1984, and ask you to read from 19 the mark cn Page 68 through the mark on Page 70. 20 Just read it; to yourself, ifyou would. 21 A. I didn't remember we had Westinghouse. 22 I'm not positive. I think ACandS had the 23 Westinghouse turbines. 24 Q. Mr Brodie, based on your review of the 95 I Q. Did the contract involve the insulation 2 of those items you just described? 3 A, Yes, 4 Q. And did that insulation contain 5 asbestos? 6 A. It would have been Kaylo. 7 Q. Ifthe contract was with Westinghouse, S who was paying New England Insulation for that 9 work? 10 A. Westinghouse. 11 Q. Do you recall the contact person or 12 persons with Westinghouse on that job? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Do you recall *- strike that. 15 Did New England Insulation do any other 16 work for Westinghouse prior to 1974 that you 17 recall? 18 A. Other than at -- 19 Q, Other than at New Boston. 20 A. Yes, we did. 21 Q, And at what locations did New England 22 Insulation do work for Westinghouse? 23 A. I'd have to think about that I can't 24 identify the projects right now. I think one of 1 excerpt from the deposition 1 just showed you, do 2 you recall whether or not New England Insulation 3 ever did any insulation work on a turbine at any 4 Boston Edison facility? 5 A. My deposition there indicates that 1 6 said that we had worked for Westinghouse on the 7 turbine. 1 don't remember it now, but if I S remembered it in '84, my memory was probably much 9 better. 10 MR. LAVOIE: Could we have the 11 deposition transcript identified for the 12 rest of the group here? 13 MR. SHEPARD: It's his 1984 deposition, 14 June 22,1984, in re: Mass. State Court 15 Asbestos litigation. 16 MR. KIRBY: Pages? 17 MR. SHEPARD: Pages were 68 through 70, IS Q. Do you recall, sir, sitting here today 19 what work New England Insulation would have done 20 pursuant to thu contract with Westinghouse? 21 A. The turbine body and the small amount 22 of piping associated with it and the crossover 23 pipe between the high pressure and the low 24 pressure vent. 96 I them was down at Brayton Point, Units 1 and 2. 2 That's in Somerset, Mass. 3 MR. SHEPARD: John, do you want to take 4 a break here to get some food? 5 MR. RUSSELL: Sure. 6 (Lunch recess taken, 12:26-1:17) 7 MR. SHEPARD: Back on the record. 8 Q. Mr. Brodie, the turbine that New 9 England Insulation worked on for Westinghouse, 10 did that work involve the use of any asbestosM containing cements, to your knowledge? 12 A. Probably, 13 Q. And would those cements have been the 14 same type that you described on the piping 15 contract for New Boston? 16 A Yes, 17 Q. How long did New England Insulation 18 stay at the New Boston facility after 2 was 19 completed or -- strike that. 20 How long did New England Insulation 21 stay at the New Boston facility after their work 22 had been completed? 23 A. I would guess probably no more than 24 about a month. Eppley Court Reporting