Document 5km1pxz69Oqkn8qzb8vQyjg8V

CHARLES GREENING STATE OF NEW YORK SUPREME COURT : COUNTY OF ERIE JAMES W. GINTER, Plaintiff, - vs Index No. I2010-4061 ANDERSON & VREELAND, INC . , ASBESTOS CORPORATION , LTD., BONDEX INTERNATIONAL , INC., BORG-WARNER CORPORAT ION by its successor in interest, BorgW arner Morse TEC Inc. , FISHER SCIENTIFIC COMPANY, FORD MOTOR COMPANY, FRONTIER INSULATION CONTRACTORS, INC. , f/k/a FRONTIER INSULATION AND ASBESTOS, INC., GARLOCK SEALING TECHNOLOGIES LLC, GENERAL ELECTRIC COMPANY, GEORGIA-PACIFIC CORPORATION, HEDMAN RESOURCES, LTD., HONEYWELL INC., individually and as successor to ALLIED SIGNAL, and as successor to BENDIX CORPORATION, INDUSTRIAL INSULATION SALES, INC. , INSULATION DISTRIBUTORS, INC., McLAUGHLIN INSULATION CO., INC. , NIAGARA INSULATIONS, INC., f/k/a NIAGARA ASBESTOS CO. , INC. , JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 2 1 PLASTICS ENGINEERING COMPANY d/b/a PLENCO, PNEUMO ABEX LLC as successor to ABEX CORPORATION, 2 REICHHOLD, INC., ROGERS CORPORATION, 3 UNITED GILSONITE LABORATORIES, 4 Defendants. 5 6 7 Examination before trial of CHARLES 8 GREENING, taken pursuant to Notice, in the law 9 offices of GIBSON, McASKILL & CROSBY, LLP, 10 69 Delaware Avenue, Suite 900, Buffalo, New York, 11 on July 7, 2011, commencing at 8:40 a.m., before 12 ANNE T. BARONE, RPR, Notary Public. 13 14 APPEARANCES: 15 16 17 LIPSITZ & PONTERIO, LLC, By KEITH R. VONA, ESQ., and MICHAEL A. PONTERIO, ESQ., 35 Delaware Avenue, 5th Floor, Buffalo, New York 14202, Appearing for the Plaintiff. 18 GIBSON, McASKILL & CROSBY, LLP, By BRIAN P. CROSBY, ESQ. , 19 69 Delaware Avenue, Suite 900, Buffalo, New York 14202-3866, 20 Appearing for the Defendant, Ford Motor Company. 21 22 23 JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 3 1 (STIPULATIONS: Waive filing and signing of 2 the transcript, waive Oath of the Referee, 3 reserve all objections until trial, with 4 exception of objections as to form, an 5 objection by one defense attorney deemed 6 to be an objection by all.) 7 8 CHARLES GREENING, 19061 San Diego 9 Boulevard, Lathrup Village, Michigan, 48076, after 10 being duly called and sworn, testified as follows: 11 12 EXAMINATION BY MR. VONA: 13 14 Q. Good morning, Mr. Greening. How are 15 you? 16 A. Good morning. Good. Thank you. 17 Q. How old are you, sir? 18 A. 8 1 . 19 Q. And when did you get into Buffalo? 20 A. Tuesday night. Would it be Tuesday 21 night? No. No. It would be Wednesday night. 22 Q. Was it last night? 23 A. No. Tuesday night. I'm sorry. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 4 1 Q. Tuesday night. Okay. What time did 2 you get in? 3 MR. CROSBY: Into Buffalo? 4 THE WITNESS: No. No. Not into Buffalo. I 5 got into Detroit Tuesday night. Buffalo yesterday 6 morning. 7 BY MR. VONA: 8 Q. So you got to Buffalo Wednesday 9 morning? 10 A. Yes. It seems like a long time ago. 11 Q. And you said you got into Detroit on 12 Tuesday night? 13 A. Tuesday night. 14 Q. Where were you coming from when you got 15 to Detroit? 16 A. From Stag Island, Ontario. Corunna, 17 Ontario. C-U-R-N-N -- N-N-A. 18 Q. Your guess is as good as mine. 19 A. Anyway. 20 Q. Go ahead. 21 A. No. That's fine. 22 Q. So what were you doing there? I assume 23 you're retired, right? JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 5 1 A. Semi . 2 Q. Semi. Okay. Where do you work? 3 A. Greening, Incorporated . I '' m the 4 chairman. 5 Q. You're the chairman of the company 6 A. And president. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. Of Greening, Incorporated. 9 Q. Greening, Incorporated . Okay. 10 Sir, have you ever given a deposition 11 before? 12 A. I feel as though I have. It's been a 13 lot of years. 14 Q. Sure . 15 A. In fact, I have, yes. 16 Q. Okay. Do you remember under what 17 circumstances it was? 18 A. I was suing my former employer. 19 Q. Okay. Is that the only time that you 20 can think of? 21 A. That's the only time. 22 Q. Have you ever given any testimony in a 23 courtroom in a trial setting? JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 6 1 A. Not in a -- in a trial, meaning with a 2 jury? 3 Q. Yes. 4 A. No . 5 Q. Or a judge? 6 A. A Circuit Court judge. 7 Q. Was that the same case or was that 8 something -- 9 A. Same case. 10 Q. All right. And sir, could you just go 11 through your background, your education, just 12 briefly for me? Do you have any degrees or 13 anything like that? 14 A. I have a degree in industrial 15 engineering from Wayne University in Detroit. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. And I was a Registered Professional 18 Engineer about six years later in the State of 19 Michigan. 20 Q. Okay. 21 A. For 40 years or so. 22 Q. Okay. And I apologize for making that 23 assumption that you were retired. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 7 1 A. Well, that's all right. I'm old enough 2 to be retired. 3 Q. Most certainly. Can you tell me a 4 little bit about your work history? When did you 5 graduate from college and become an engineer? 6 A. 1953. 7 Q. Okay. And where did you work after 8 that? 9 A. I worked at Webber Testing 10 Laboratories . 11 Q. And what did you do there, just 12 briefly? 13 A. I was a sales engineer. 14 Q. And was that from -- in 1953? 15 A. 1953 until 1954. 16 Q. Okay. Where did you go after that? 17 A. To Link Engineering Company. 18 Q. Okay. How long were you at Link? What 19 years? 20 A. ' 5 4 through ' 6 2 . 21 Q. And what did you do for Link? 22 A. I was a sales engineer. 23 Q. All right. Following Link, where did JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 8 1 you go next? 2 A. I was in business for myself starting 3 in 1962 as a sales representative for the Link 4 Engineering Company, as well as the Kahn 5 Dynamometer, I guess it was called. It was out of 6 Hartford, Connecticut. 7 Q. You said you went into business for 8 yourself. Were you part owner of Link or -- 9 A. No. Iwasa commissioned -- partially 10 commissioned salesperson for Link. 11 Q. So you were like an independent 12 contractor or -- so to speak? 13 A. Well, no. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. I started out as a salaried employee, 16 over a period of some years went from a salary only 17 to a salary plus commission, commission increasing 18 as the years went on, salary decreasing. So at the 19 end of so many years, I was fully commissioned, 20 no -21 Q. I think I understand. You eat what you 22 kill? 23 A. Well, that's right. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 9 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. And then I represented Link for two 3 years, and also this other company, and then was 4 asked to build a machine of a type that I was 5 familiar with. 6 Q. Okay. Who asked you to build a 7 machine ? 8 A. Comins, I believe, C-O-M-I-N-S, 9 Manufacturing or something like that in 10 Massachusetts, outside of Boston. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. Lawrence. Lawrence, Massachusetts. 13 Q. Okay. And what machine did they ask 14 you to build? 15 A. A Chase Machine. 16 Q. A Chase Machine. Okay. And when was 17 that, sir? What year roughly? 18 A. Well, it would have been -- it would 19 have been 1964. 20 Q. Okay. And following your work with 21 Link and Comins, where did you go next? Where was 22 your next employment? 23 A. That's it. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 10 1 Q. You -2 A. That was the start of Greening 3 Associates and then Greening Testing Laboratories 4 and Greening, Incorporated. 5 Q. 1964? 6 A. 1964 is when we should have been 7 incorporated in 1964, but -- 8 Q. I see? 9 A. -- the attorneys weren't too swift, and 10 so it turned out to be 1965. 11 Q. Mr. Crosby didn't represent you back 12 then, did he? 13 A. No, he didn't. 14 Q. All right. 15 MR. CROSBY: Nor do I today. 16 BY MR. VONA: 17 Q. I was going to ask you that. Mr. 18 Crosby's not representing you today, correct? 19 A. No, he is not. No. 20 Q. Okay. 21 A. So we started -- we were incorporated 22 September 9th, 1965, and our first -- and had the 23 machine - -- I sublet various things. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 11 1 Q. The Chase Machine? 2 A. The Chase Machine, right. 3 Q. All right. Let me ask you this, sir: 4 You have never been employed by Ford, correct? 5 A. No . 6 Q. Okay. Have any of your family 7 members -- family members ever worked for Ford in 8 the past? 9 A. And family members meaning? 10 Q. Say, you know, your immediate family, 11 we'll say within maybe first cousins. 12 A. We have a nephew that worked -- had 13 worked for Ford for many years . 14 Q. Okay. Anyone else that you can think 15 of? 16 A. No, I don't think so. 17 Q. How about today? Does any of your 18 family work for Ford today? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Do you own any Ford stock? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Have you ever been to any Ford 23 facility? JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 12 1 A. You mean a plant? 2 Q. Yeah. 3 A. Well, certainly. 4 Q. Which ones ? 5 A. Well, the Scientific and Research 6 Laboratory would have been the -- and the 7 dynamometer laboratory both on the south side of 8 Oakwood Boulevard, and then they had a proving 9 ground at that time which was the old Ford airport, 10 and I've been there. That's principally it. Oh, 11 I've been through the Dearborn assembly plant, but 12 not as a business. 13 Q. I was going to ask you, when you went 14 to -- well, let me ask you this first. The 15 scientific research building at Ford, when's the 16 first time you went there? 17 A. Well, I was working at Link at the 18 time, and the first time I was at Ford in that 19 general area was the dynamometer laboratory. 20 Q. Are those separate? 21 A. Yeah, they're side by side but they're 22 separate buildings. 23 Q. Okay. Well, I want to focus on the JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 13 1 scientific research lab. When do you recall is the 2 first time you were in there? 3 A. I would have been in business for 4 myself at that point. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. So it would have to be -- 7 Q. It would have to be after 1965? 8 A. Oh, yeah. 9 Q. Wasit after 197 0 ? 10 A. Probably right about then. 11 Q. Around 1970? 12 A. Yeah. We also -- we sold them an SAE 13 Number 2 machine, which is a machine that we 14 manufacture, since about 1967, so we -- you know, I 15 was in there, so it would be after 1967. And it 16 was well after -- it could have been 1980 when we 17 finally sold that machine to them. 18 Q. Okay. So I'm a little -- I'm a little 19 confused. 20 A. You're asking when was the first time 21 we went to - the building -- 22 Q. Let me ask a question. 23 A. You ask the question. I'm sorry. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 14 1 Q. That's all right, sir. 2 When was the first time you personally 3 stepped foot in the scientific research lab at 4 Ford? 5 A. I really don't know. It's been a very 6 long time. 7 Q. I understand. 8 A. And the building wasn't built until -- 9 gee, I don't know when it was built. 10 Q. Your best estimate. 11 A. I would think sometime in the ' 60s. 12 Early '60s, I suppose. 13 Q. When it was built? 14 A. I'm guessing, yeah. That's a guess. 15 Q. I don't want you to guess today. 16 A. I can't give you -- I cannot give 17 you -- I would not say -- I would not bet you a 18 dime on what year I'm telling you. 19 Q. Okay. So you have no idea when the 20 first time you went in there was? 21 A. I would say, no, I don't. 22 Q. All right. And how many times over the 23 years have you been in that building? JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 15 1 A. A dozen, I suppose. 2 Q. And can you tell me generally for what 3 reasons you would be there? 4 A. Well, I was there for seeing what Arne 5 Anderson -- you know about him. 6 Q. You know Mr.Anderson? 7 A. Oh, yes. 8 Q. Is Mr. Anderson still alive? 9 A. I believe he is. 10 Q. Do you have any contact with him still? 11 A. No . 12 Q. I'm sorry. So you were there to see 13 Mr. Anderson? 14 A. To see Mr. Anderson because he was in 15 the friction business sort of thing. He attended 16 some meetings of the SAE Friction Subcommittee 17 Group but not every meeting. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. Certainly saw him more when he started 20 this quality control thing for the -- for the Ford 21 Motor Company. 22 Q. What do you mean by that quality 23 control thing? JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 16 1 A. Well, he had developed this so-called 2 friction appraisal screening test which is a FAST 3 acronym. 4 Q. Friction assessment screening test? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Okay. When did you develop that to 7 your knowledge? 8 A. Would have been the '60s, sometime. 9 Q. Did you help him at all? 10 A. No . 11 Q. Sir, would it be a fair statement that 12 you have no personal knowledge about what Ford did 13 internally as a company? Would that be a fair 14 statement? 15 A. Regarding what? 16 Q. Anything. You didn't work for Ford, 17 correct? 18 A. No, I didn't work for Ford, but I 19 certainly was -- over the years, I -- I had a lot 20 of dealing with Ford Motor Company people and we 21 sold Ford Motor Company SAE Number 2 machines on 22 several occasions. 23 Q. Did you sell Ford FAST machines? JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 17 1 A. No . 2 Q. Did you sell FAST machines? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Okay. We'll get to that in a minute 5 but I guess what I'm getting at is because you were 6 not an employee -- you were never an employee of 7 Ford, correct ? 8 A. No, never. 9 Q. So you weren't involved in decision 10 making that went on at Ford? 11 A. No. 12 Q. So you weren't involved in decision 13 making, correct? 14 A. No. 15 Q. You weren't involved in what Ford 16 engineers like Mr. Anderson were designing? 17 A. No. 18 Q. You weren't involved in decisions that 19 were made at Ford on what they were going to sell, 20 correct? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Sir, when's the first time you heard 23 about this case? The present case. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 18 1 A. Two days ago. 2 Q. Two days ago. And let me ask you this: 3 When was the first time you or anyone from Greening 4 was contacted by Ford about this case? 5 A. Would have been a date preceding the 6 two days, so it would have been three days. 7 Q. Okay. So two days ago would put us at 8 Monday? No. Tuesday? 9 MR. CROSBY: Tuesday. The 5th of July. 10 BY MR. VONA: 11 Q. So the first time you were contacted 12 was Tuesday? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. You didn't speak to Ford on Monday at 15 all? 16 A. No. My -- no. My son called me first. 17 Q. Okay. What did your son say to you? 18 A. He said that he had been contacted by 19 this firm. I don't know who it was. But said they 20 were looking for someone who had some knowledge of 21 the FAST machine and so forth. 22 Q. And did your son mention as to when he 23 was first contacted by Ford? JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 19 1 A. No, I don't know. He didn't say, but I 2 would assume it would have been that day. He 3 wouldn't have waited for anything particularly. 4 Q. So when did your son call you exactly? 5 Was it over the weekend? 6 A. No, it would have been -- 7 Q. Monday? 8 A. -- Monday. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. My son was with me on the weekend. 11 Q. But I'm correct, you didn't have any 12 conversations with anybody from Ford, yourself 13 personally, till Tuesday? 14 A. Anybody from Ford? 15 Q. Yeah. Any of the lawyers? 16 A. Oh, yes, that's correct. 17 Q. Okay. Yeah, I didn't mean way back 18 when or anything like that. I'm just talking about 19 specifically. 20 A. All right. 21 Q. Do you know anything about my client in 22 this case? 23 A. I don't. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 20 1 Q. You don't know that he's 61 years old 2 and he's dying from mesothelioma? 3 A. I knew he had a problem with -4 Q. It's a tough one. 5 A. Anyway. 6 Q. Do you know anything about that 7 disease? 8 A. I know it's a disease. It's a bad 9 disease . 10 Q. Do you know that it's only caused by 11 exposure to asbestos? 12 A. Only? 13 Q. Yeah. 14 A. I didn't know that. 15 Q. Okay. And besides you and your son, 16 was anyone else ever contacted, phoned, message 17 left at the Greening facility that you're aware of? 18 A. No . 19 Q. Okay. If I represented to you that the 20 attorneys from Ford have said that they've been 21 trying to get a hold of Greening for months, would 22 you have any reason to dispute that? 23 A. No. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 21 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. How would I know? 3 Q. Well, they would have left phone 4 messages or something. 5 A. Oh, okay. No. 6 Q. You have no knowledge of that? 7 A. No knowledge. 8 Q. Okay. Now, when you were contacted -- 9 well, let me back up. 10 So your son called you, correct? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. Were you on that island at that 13 point? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. I had heard that you were on a boat? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Is that true? Your own boat, 18 obviously? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. Were you just taking some 21 vacation time? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. How was the weather by the way? JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 22 1 A. Great. 2 Q. It was nice here, too. 3 A. You can thank us. 4 Q. So I've got to ask you: If you're 5 there on vacation, the weather's gorgeous and 6 everything, why would you agree to just get on a 7 plane and fly out to Buffalo and come and testify 8 in this case? 9 A. Well, I'm interested in the subject. 10 Q. So just out of general interest, you're 11 here? 12 A. No. We're in the business. We 13 manufacturer test machines. Test friction 14 materials . 15 Q. Sir, I realize you're not represented 16 by Mr. Crosby here today. Do you feel that you 17 should be represented by counsel at all today? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Okay. You do realize anything you -- 20 that you do say today could be used against you or 21 Greening Associates in the future? 22 A. Yes. Yes. 23 Q. Okay. I just want to make sure that JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 23 1 you're aware of your rights. Okay. 2 So you were on vacation when Ford called 3 you. Well, let me ask you this: How many phone 4 calls did the Ford lawyers make to you personally? 5 A. The staff? Their staff? 6 Q. Anybody. 7 A. Anybody. Probably two. 8 Q. Probably? 9 A. Well, I'd say two. One to talk to me 10 about would I be interested in testifying and then 11 another call telling me where the information that 12 I would need to get here would be available to me. 13 Q. Okay. What information? 14 A. Well, the airplane ticket. 15 Q. Your travel information? 16 A. Yeah, right. And it was e-mailed to me 17 so I didn't get it until 10:30 on Tuesday night. 18 Q. You don't have a copy of that e-mail 19 with you, do you? 20 A. I do not. 21 MR. VONA: I put a request for that if you 22 have a copy of whoever sent that e-mail, I' d like 23 to see it. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 24 1 BY MR. VONA: 2 Q. Now, do you recall who you spoke with 3 exactly? The person's name. 4 A. Renee. 5 Q. Both times? 6 MR. CROSBY: About travel you're talking 7 about? 8 BY MR. VONA: 9 Q. No. You said you had two phone calls? 10 A. Yeah. The first phone call was from 11 Renee . 12 Q. Who's Renee? 13 MR. PONTERIO: You have to testify, sir. 14 MR. VONA: Yeah. The best of your 15 knowledge. 16 THE WITNESS: I don't know. It's a woman 17 for this firm. 18 BY MR. VONA: 19 Q. Do you know if she' s an at torney or 20 not? SH o i-- i 21 A. ot . 22 Q. Okay. What did you and Re nee discuss ? 23 A. Would I be willing to come to testify JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 25 1 in a -- in a legal proceeding against Ford Motor 2 Company. 3 Q. So that was -- she called you up and 4 said, sir, would you be willing to come to Buffalo 5 and testify with regard to Ford? That's all she 6 said. 7 A. With regard to the asbestosis thing. 8 Q. Okay. And based on just that, you said 9 okay? 10 A. Well, it was - - it was - 11 Q. What else did she say, sir? 12 A. For me to be interested -- the asbestos 13 thing is the interesting thing to me. 14 Q. Why so? 15 A. Because we're in the business of making 16 friction materials test machines. That's almost 17 all we do. 18 Q. I understand that. 19 A. Of all types. 20 Q. I researched your company. I 21 understand. 22 A. Okay. You understand. 23 Q. But I' m curious as to what she actually JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 26 1 said to you to convince you to come to Buffalo? 2 A. Well, I understood there was a suit 3 against the company by your client. It was a brief 4 conversation. I didn't need any arm twisting 5 particularly to be interested. It's something I 6 could learn something from. 7 Q. So you don't really recall exactly what 8 she said to you? 9 A. I don't. No. 10 Q. I see. 11 A. It was a very brief conversation. 12 Q. The second call that you received from 13 Ford from this office -- Ford's attorney's 14 office -- who was that? Who did you speak to? 15 A. You know, I'd like to tell you it was 16 Renee, again. It probably was Renee. 17 Q. You don't remember? It was two days 18 ago, sir. 19 A. I know. I understand. 20 Q. Do you have any issues with memory? 21 A. Do I have any issues with memory as far 22 as names are concerned? 23 Q. And just in general. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 27 1 A. No, not necessarily. 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. I may be a little slow at times. 4 Q. I'm not going to knock you. You're 81 5 years old, sir. 6 A. Okay. 7 Q. But you understand that we're talking 8 about a lot of thing that happened many, many years 9 ago? 10 A. Yes, that's correct. I understand. 11 Q. So you can see my concern? 12 A. I understand that. 13 Q. You understand if you can't remember 14 who you spoke to two days ago, I have some concerns 15 about what you might remember 30 or 40 years ago, 16 you understand, right? 17 A. I understand that point of view; 18 however, the call for me on the second thing was 19 just an instruction as to where I'm going to get my 20 travel information. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. Really inconsequential type of 23 conversation. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 28 1 Q. Okay. So if I'm clear, you had two 2 conversations with Ford's attorneys, one that you 3 really don't recall the substance of, just in 4 general that you -- they wanted you to come to 5 Buffalo to testify, and the other was for travel 6 arrangements; is that fair? 7 A. No . 8 Q. Okay. Well, why don't you tell me what 9 happened. 10 A. In the first instance, it was about the 11 suit on the asbestos thing. 12 Q. Right. 13 A. That's of interest to me. The second 14 call was to advise me where I was going to find my 15 information on travel. 16 Q. I understand that. 17 A. And could I get there and could I get 18 the data. I'm at a location where I have no 19 computer, which meant I had to go to two different 20 locations just to get home, and I did it at about 21 10:30 at night, so that was my concern, that I 22 would be able to get the travel information because 23 their office was going to be closed. There would JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 29 1 be no one I could contact by phone. They expected 2 me to come the next day. 3 Q. On Tuesday. 4 A. I had to know what it was. 5 Q. Sure. I understand that part. 6 A. Okay. But the name was incidental. 7 Whether it was Renee or some other secretary that 8 called, I don't know. 9 Q. On that first call -- 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. -- what did they tell you about this 12 case exactly? 13 A. Well, they didn't tell me much about 14 the case other than it was a suit with Ford Motor 15 Company regarding someone who was ill with this 16 asbestosis. 17 Q. Do you have any loyalty to Ford? 18 A. No . 19 Q. So you just left your boat, got on your 20 plane, and came to Buffalo based on that 21 conversation? 22 A. Let me say, Ford Motor Company is not 23 high on my list as clients. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 30 1 Q. Okay. Has Greening Associates ever 2 done business with Ford? 3 A. They have. Years ago they have. 4 Q. Okay. When was that? 5 A. That would have been in the '70s and 6 '80s, when we sold them SAE Number 2 machines. 7 Q. Okay. Did the Renee or whoever called 8 you from this office, when they spoke to you on the 9 phone, did they discuss with you at all my client's 10 work on the FAST machine? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Have anybody -- you're kind of making a 13 face. 14 A. Well, yeah. I'm thinking. No. 15 Certainly she didn't. 16 Q. Okay. That's my next question. Has 17 anybody from Ford discussed with you my client's, 18 Mr. Ginter's, work on the FAST machine? 19 A. These are Ford people. 20 Q. Well, she's not. He is. 21 MR. CROSBY: When you say from Ford, you're 22 talking about Ford's attorneys? 23 MR. VONA: I'm talking about anybody. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 31 1 Ford's attorneys or Ford employees. 2 THE WITNESS: I've been advised about the 3 FAST machine and the claim of something about 4 working on that machine was detrimental to this 5 person's health. 6 BY MR. VONA: 7 Q. Okay. Exactly how was that explained 8 to you? And by the way, who explained that to you? 9 A. Brian. 10 Q. And what did he say to you? 11 A. Well, that this chap worked at the 12 Durez friction -- friction or chemical company, and 13 that they used the FAST machine for their purposes 14 to correlate, I suppose, with the Ford Motor 15 Company as far as this quality control thing 16 between vendor and user. 17 Q. At any time either on the phone or 18 since you've come here, has Ford or Ford employees 19 or Ford attorneys spoken to you about exactly what 20 it is they want you to testify about? 21 A. What they want me to testify about? 22 Q. Yeah, what - 23 A. That you were going to ask me questions JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 32 1 about this FAST machine. 2 Q. Okay. Do you realize that you're 3 supposed to come to court this afternoon to testify 4 as well in front of a jury? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Did they talk to you about what they 7 expect or want you to say in front of that jury? 8 A. Tell the truth. 9 Q. What do they want you to tell? 10 A. Well, answer the questions. 11 Q. Okay. Sir, how much are you being 12 compensated for your time? 13 A. I'm being compensated for -- generally 14 for the time that I'm away from my home. 15 Q. Okay. At what rate? How much per 16 hour? 17 A. Well, I got today -18 Q. No. No. I'm asking you do you have an 19 hourly rate, or are you billing just as a bulk sum? 20 A. I figured it was about a $2,000 fee for 21 coming down here. 22 Q. Okay. 23 A. I would be gone a couple of days. Two JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 33 1 and a half days probably. 2 Q. And did you receive that money already? 3 A. No . 4 Q. Did Ford pay for your airfare here? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. They put you up at a hotel? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Where are you staying? 9 A. Embassy Suites. 10 Q. Did they take you to dinner last night? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Okay. Did you meet with anyone from 13 Ford last night? 14 A. No. Well, we had a discussion until -- 15 what do you mean by last night? 16 Q. Well, let me ask you this : Who picked 17 from the airport? 18 A. The -- this firm. 19 Q. Okay. Do you remember who it was? 20 A. It was -- I do remember. Bill has been 21 driver but Eric was the other driver. 22 Q. Okay. So you've had two drivers since 23 been here? JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 34 1 A. Two different drivers. 2 Q. Okay. Eric and Bill? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. They both work for this firm, as far as 5 you know? 6 A. As far as I know. 7 Q. Do you know if they're lawyers or not? 8 A. I would say probably not, but I don't 9 know . 10 Q. Did they discuss this case with you at 11 all? 12 A. No . 13 Q. You guys just made small talk? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Okay. And just so we're clear, you got 16 in on Tuesday? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. What did you -- what did you do 19 on Tuesday - 20 MR. CROSBY: Objection. 21 MR. VONA: -- when you were in Buffalo. 22 MR. CROSBY: Today's Thursday. 23 THE WITNESS: I got in on Wednesday. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 35 1 BY MR. VONA: 2 Q. So you got in on Wednesday? 3 A. Wednesday, in the early afternoon. 4 Q. Do you remember what time, roughly? 5 A. It was a lousy get off, but I think we 6 weren't too late, so probably 2 o'clock or 7 thereabouts . 8 Q. Okay. Just so we're clear, you got in 9 yesterday? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. So you had one driver pick you up from 12 the airport? 13 A. Yes. That was Eric. 14 Q. Okay. He took you to the hotel? 15 A. Yes, he did. 16 Q. The second driver, what did he do? 17 When did he pick you up? 18 A. He picked me up this morning. Picked 19 me up from the hotel yesterday. 20 Q. Picked you up from the hotel. Where 21 did he take you yesterday? 22 A. Here . 23 Q. So you came to this office last night? JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 36 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Okay. Let's talk about that. 3 A. Okay. 4 Q. What time did you come here? 5 A. I'll say 5:30 or 5 o'clock. 6 Q. Okay. Did you meet in this room here? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Okay. Who was here besides you? 9 A. There was Jason -- is it Chris? 10 Q. You're the one testifying. You can't 11 ask him any questions. To the best of your 12 recollection. 13 A. Well, Chris sat there, Jason sat there, 14 Brian sat here . 15 Q. Anyone else? 16 A. No . 17 Q. Was Mark Taylor here? 18 A. I don't know Mark Taylor. 19 Q. You haven't met Mark Taylor? He 20 works -- 21 A. If I did, I shook his hand, but I don't 22 recall . 23 Q. He's a taller gentleman with glasses, JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 37 i i i--i i i i--i 1 works for Ford. Did you ever meet him? 2 A. Well, I just walked in, you know, and 3 I don't -- you know, it was an incidental 4 thing if there was a Mark Taylor, why, I don't 5 recall . 6 Q. Okay. I was just going to say it's a 7 simple question, a yes or no. 8 A. Okay. I'd say no. 9 Q. So no, you didn't meet Mark Taylor? 10 A. No. It's not a comfortable question as 11 far as I'm concerned. 12 Q. Why is -- 13 A. Because when you walk in a strange 14 building, you don't remember everybody you see. I 15 mean, I passed other people. How would I remember 16 them? No meaningful discussion. No nothing. 17 Q. Well, if he had introduced himself, 18 said I'm Mark Taylor, I work for Ford, I think you 19 might remember, correct? 20 A. Well, I might. 21 Q. But you don't remember that? 22 A. Well, if there's a bunch of people, you 23 meet a lot of people. If I'm introduced to a dozen JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 38 1 people, am I going to remember their names? No. I 2 might remember one or two. 3 Q. How many people were in this room last 4 night? 5 A. There would have been four of us . 6 Q. Okay. You, Brian, Jason and Chris? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Okay. What did you guys talk about? 9 A. Talked about the FAST machine . 10 Q. Okay. Be a little more elaborate about 11 that. What about the FAST machine? 12 A. Well, you know, who started it when was 13 it done. What was the purpose of it. You know, 14 who were the manufacturers of those machines. That 15 would be the principal things. 16 Q. How long did you guys meet for last 17 night? 18 A. Till about 8 o'clock. 19 Q. So you guys were in here for two and a 20 half hours? 21 A. I would say so. 22 Q. What else did you talk about? 23 A. My background. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 39 1 Q. That's it? 2 A. Well, that's pretty much it. We didn't 3 chitchat about other things. 4 Q. Sure. This was a business meeting, 5 correct? 6 A. Absolutely. 7 Q. And you're being paid by Ford to be 8 here, correct? 9 A. That's correct. 10 Q. They didn't feed you , though? 11 A. I had a hamburger. One hamburger. 12 Q. In here? 13 A. In this office. 14 Q. I was going to say, it's just courteous 15 that they at least give you dinner. 16 A. Well, they did. They brought in a 17 hamburger and suggested did I want to go out to 18 dinner, and I told them no, the hamburger's fine. 19 Q. Man after my own heart. 20 A. I mean, good enough for me. 21 Q. Fine with me, too. 22 Let me ask you a little bit more about 23 Greening. You said you had some big dealings with JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 40 1 Ford in the past; is that right? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. You mentioned selling a -- 4 A. SAE Number 2 machine. It's a machine 5 which we -- although it has a common name, SAE 6 Number 2, it's because it was -- it was originally 7 the idea of a Ford Motor Company engineer and a 8 General Motors engineer. 9 Q. Is that a Chase machine? 10 A. No. 11 Q. What was that? 12 A. That is a friction materials test 13 machine for automatic transmission clutch plates. 14 Q. Okay. It's not a FAST machine, 15 correct? 16 A. It is not a FAST machine. 17 Q. Did you ever sell FAST machines to 18 Ford? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Has Greening ever had any contracts 21 with Ford? 22 A. For? 23 Q. Anything. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 41 1 A. SAE Number 2 machines. 2 Q. So you had an on going contract with 3 them? 4 A. Not an on going contract. No. These 5 are individual contracts to build a machine. 6 Q. I understand. Anything else that you 7 have built for Ford or sold to Ford over the years? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Does Greening currently have any 10 business dealings with Ford? 11 A. Not directly. 12 Q. Please - 13 A. Through tier one suppliers we would. 14 Q. Can you explain that alittle bit? 15 A. Well, our testing laboratory, we have a 16 number of inertia brake dynamometers, and there's 17 always a lot of data that the Ford engineers 18 require from their tier one suppliers. 19 Q. Tier one suppliers, does that include 20 friction companies? 21 A. Yeah, friction companies, principally. 22 I mean, I'm only speaking about friction companies. 23 Q. Okay. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 42 1 A. Fras-Le I know is one doing some work 2 for Ford and we're doing testing from Fras-Le. 3 MR. CROSBY: Can you spell that? 4 THE WITNESS: F R A S, hyphen, L E. It's a 5 Brazilian firm. 6 BY MR. VONA: 7 Q. Your son, does he currently own 8 Greening or do you still own it? 9 A. I own the voting stock. My sons own 10 the common stock, essentially. It's all common 11 stock. 12 Q. It's a family business? 13 A. It's a family business. 14 Q. All right. Sir, is it fair to say that 15 your business currently owns -- or strike that. 16 Would it be fair to say that your business 17 currently earns money from Ford, whether it be 18 indirectly or not? 19 A. It's not by the blessing of Ford Motor 20 Company that we have this business. 21 Q. I don't doubt that, sir. 22 A. Okay. Well -23 Q. But I'm just asking -- JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 43 1 A. We have no allegiance to Ford. 2 Q. That's not what I'm asking you. 3 A. Okay. 4 Q. I'm just asking you if your business 5 makes any money from Ford. That's all. 6 A. From Ford? Well, I'd have to say no. 7 Q. Okay. And why would you say no? 8 A. I would say no because it's not at the 9 Ford Motor Company's -- it's not their desire to be 10 doing business with us. The work that we're doing 11 is for Fras-Le. 12 Q. Right . 13 A. Fras-Le is doing it in spite of Ford, I 14 would say. 15 Q. They're not doing it for Ford? 16 A. Well, I think that it's Fras-Le who 17 brought the work to us. It certainly wasn't Ford. 18 Ford knows we're there. Ford doesn't come to us. 19 Q. Right. Fras-Le's the intermediary? 20 A. Fras-Le is saying, look, Ford, I'm not 21 going to send it over to brand X. I want Greening 22 to do it. 23 Q. Well, you guys are probably very good JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 44 1 at what you do, I assume. 2 A. We are. 3 Q. Okay. And you've never met any of 4 these lawyers from Ford before, have you? 5 A. No . 6 Q. All right. And you don't know any of 7 them personally, right? 8 A. I don't. 9 Q. Sir, besides the $2,000 and your 10 expenses for travel, lodging, et cetera, is Ford 11 compensating you in any other way? 12 A. No. 13 Q. How about Greening Associates? Are 14 they compensating Greening Associates in any other 15 way? 16 A. No. 17 Q. They haven't promised you anything, any 18 contracts or anything like that? 19 A. Nothing. 20 Q. Okay. Sir, since the time you've been 21 contacted by Ford's counsel, Ford's attorneys to 22 the present, have you been shown any documents? 23 A. I' ve been shown some Ford FAST machine JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 45 1 information. 2 Q. Do you have th ose? Can I see them 3 please? 4 MR. CROSBY: Absolu tely. I showed him two 5 documents. One is the SAE 670079. I'm sorry. 6 MR. VONA: It's wet there. 7 MR. CROSBY: I' m so rry. 8 MR. VONA: That's a ll right. 9 THE WITNESS: It's wet. 10 MR. PONTERIO: Ther e's tissues right over 11 there, Brian. 12 MR. CROSBY: And the other was a document 13 Bates stamped 0010719, which is out of another Ford 14 document. 15 MR. VONA: We'll have these marked. 16 The following were marked for Identification: 17 EXH. 1 Test Report 18 EXH. 2 Diagram of equipment containing 19 a tag on the diagram 20 BY MR. VONA: 21 Q. Okay, sir, I'm going to show you what's 22 been marked as Exhibits 1 and 2 for your deposition 23 and ask you to just take a look at those. And I'm JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 46 1 going oa sk you if those are the documents that 2 the Fo da ttorney showed you last night. 3 Is that when they showed them to you, last 4 night ? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Did they show you any other documents 7 beside th ose two ? 8 A. No. There's one other name tag that I 9 saw. hat was a Busch th ing. 10 MR. PONTERIO: Can we have that produced, 11 please 12 MR. CROSBY: Yup. I'd have to go get it. 13 MR. VONA: Go ahea d. 14 THE WITNESS: It w as just a name tag, which 15 I didn tr ecognize. This is the only one that I 16 recogn ze. 17 BY MR. VONA: 18 Q. Okay. You're pointing to Exhibit 19 Number 2? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. You recognize that name tag there? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. What does tha t say, sir? JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 47 1 A. It says USH Manufacturing Company. 2 Q. Can I see that? 3 Sir, I'll represent to you -- and I'm 38 4 years old, and I don't wear prescription 5 eyeglasses, and I can't read that. 6 A. And you don't recognize the tag either. 7 Q. Would you agree with me, sir, that 8 that's black and white and that you actually can't 9 read those letters? 10 A. You say you can't, I say you're in 11 trouble. 12 Q. Okay. So you can actually read those 13 letters? 14 A. I can -- I can tell that -- that it's a 15 UCH on the -- right here. 16 Q. How do you know that, sir? 17 A. Well, first of all, the machine gives 18 me the clue. This is a FAST machine as originally 19 manufactured. 20 Q. Okay. 21 A. This is a Ford Motor Company brass tag. 22 Q. Right there? 23 A. Right there. It's an inventory tag. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 48 1 Q. Can you just write -- put a little 2 arrow right next to the Ford tag, sir? 3 MR. PONTERIO: And write Ford tag. 4 BY MR. VONA: 5 Q. And you can write Ford tag there, 6 please. 7 A. It's a property tag or something like 8 that, inventory. 9 Q. Whatever you called it. You called it 10 a Ford tag, I think? 11 A. Okay. All right. 12 MR. CROSBY: I think he called it an 13 inventory tag. 14 THE WITNESS: It is an inventory tag. You 15 want inventory? 16 BY MR. VONA: 17 Q. Let me ask you about this tag here, 18 though. Is it -- is it based on just your 19 recollection -- well, first of all, have you ever 20 seen this actual machine that's in this picture? 21 A. Absolutely. 22 Q. This very machine? 23 A. That very machine? JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 49 1 Q. Yes. 2 A. I don't know which machine that is. 3 Q. You don't ? 4 A. But I recognize it as a FAST machine. 5 Definitely Now, which one it is? Do I know it's 6 Ford's machine, or do I know it's one manufactured 7 by Link? Well, I can tell by the way this thing 8 looks that this is one made by Busch. 9 Q. Okay. And this has a Ford property tag 10 on it? 11 A. That's a Ford property tag. 12 Q. And you realize this is a Ford 13 document? Ford showed it to you? 14 A. Yes, that's true. 15 Q. But you don't -- you don't know the 16 context of this machine, where that picture was 17 taken or anything like that, right? 18 A. No, I don't. 19 Q. And what I was going to ask you, sir -- 20 listen, I understand you know a lot more about this 21 than I do, okay, but what I wanted to ask you is 22 with respect to this, all I'm saying is, would it 23 be fair to say that you can't read this and maybe JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 50 1 it's based on your recollection of the machine that 2 that's why you believe it's UHF? 3 A. If you had showed me this and I didn't 4 know what the machine was and I looked at that -- 5 at those letters, if I was in an eye exam and I was 6 in the -- and the doctor was asking me to take your 7 best guess what they are, I'd say it's UCH. 8 Q. Can you show me where the -- 9 A. And manufacturing also, company. 10 Q. Now -- so -- 11 A. Nobody suggested to me when that 12 picture was given to me -- 13 Q. I didn't say that, sir. 14 Who is -- is it UGF? What did you say? 15 UCF? 16 A. I said UCH. 17 Q. What's UCH? 18 A. B-U-S-C-H. 19 Q. Busch? 20 A. Busch. 21 MR. VONA: Okay. Can we see that other -- 22 MR. CROSBY: Sure. We'll go off the record. 23 MR. VONA: Yeah. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 51 1 (A recess was then taken.) 2 BY MR. VONA: 3 Q. Sir, with respect to Exhibit 2, how do 4 you know that that's a Ford property tag? 5 A. Well, I've seen it many times. 6 Q. Where have you seenthose tags? 7 A. On my machine. 8 Q. What machine? 9 A. SAE Number 2. 10 Q. Okay. So any otherFord machines that 11 you've seen that tag on before? 12 A. Not that I recall. 13 Q. Does your company sell those SAE 14 machines? 15 A. Yes, we make them. 16 Q. You make them. And Ford puts their tag 17 on them? 18 A. They do.They would. 19 Q. And then you sell them? 20 A. No. No. 21 Q. Okay. That's what I thought you said. 22 A. We make the machine. 23 Q. Right. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 52 1 A. You, Ford Motor Company, ordered the 2 machine from us. You get the machine. You can do 3 as you choose. You put the tag on. It's a 4 property machine. 5 Q. Where have you seen the machines with 6 the Ford tag on them? 7 A. Ford transmission. 8 Q. So in their plants. Okay. I see. 9 And when you were -- strike that. 10 Let me ask you about -- let me have this 11 marked as 3. I'm sorry. 12 The following was marked for Identification: 13 EXH. 3 Document with picture of tag 14 BY MR. VONA: 15 Q. I'm going to show you what's been 16 marked as Exhibit 3 for your deposition. Is that 17 also one of the documents Ford attorneys showed you 18 last night? 19 A. No . 20 Q. It's not ? 21 A. No. 22 MR. CROSBY: He saw it this morning 23 MR. VONA: Oh, okay. I apologize. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 53 1 BY MR. VONA: 2 Q. So you saw that this morning? 3 A. Yes, I saw it on his desk. 4 Q. Very good. Were you shown it or you 5 just observed it? 6 A. No. I just observed it. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. I said I didn't recognize the tag. 9 Q. Would that be because at the top there 10 it says old woodworking machines? 11 A. No. I didn't look at that. You 12 pointed that out now. I didn't see that. I saw 13 the tag. 14 Q. Well, do you see that at the top there? 15 A. I do now. 16 Q. Okay. Would you agree with me that 17 that tag doesn't -- isn't the same as that tag? 18 A. I would agree with that . 19 Q. Okay. 20 MR. CROSBY: Well, that tag and that tag. 21 MR. VONA: I''m sorry. You're right, Brian. 22 BY MR. VONA: 23 Q. Let's say, would you agree with me that JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 54 1 the tag in Exhibit number 3 is not the tag in 2 Exhibit Number 2, which you referenced as Busch? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. All right. 5 A. That is not . 6 Q. It is not. 7 Do you recognize that tag at all in 8 number 3? 9 A. Not at all. It's the first time you 10 saw it today. 11 Q. Do you recognize that company, Busch 12 Manufacturing Company? 13 A. Absolutely. 14 Q. Okay. And what -- do you know -- what 15 can you tell me about Busch from your personal 16 knowledge? Do you know when they incorporated? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Okay. Were they around in the late 19 1960s? 20 A. Yes, they were. 21 Q. Okay. Were they a competitor of yours? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Do you know what they manufactured in JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 55 1 the late '60s? 2 A. I thought it was a tool shop, a 3 parts -- parts -- small production. Low production 4 type shop. 5 Q. Like what kind of tools, though? 6 A. Well, I don't know. I saw it from the 7 outside, not the inside. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. When I realized that they were making 10 this machine , I took a ride out to see what the 11 shop looked like. 12 Q. Okay. When was that? 13 A. Probably in the 1970s, sometime. 14 Q. Sometime in the '70s? 15 A. Early. Might have been '70 or '69 or 16 something like that. 17 Q. Do you have a specific recollection of 18 that? 19 A. 20 Q. That was in 1970, '69? 21 A. No. I don't have a recollection of the 22 date. I do recall driving out there. They were on 23 Rochester Road just north of 14 Mile Road and I JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 o i-- i Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 56 1 believe it was Fraser, Michigan or Clawson. 2 Q. Right. It says Clawson on there. Do 3 you know whether or not Busch made woodworking 4 machines ? 5 A. I have no experience with that. 6 Q. You would agree with me that Exhibit 7 Number 3 does say old woodworking machine at the 8 top? 9 A. That's what it says. 10 Q. It's fair you don't actually know the 11 exact date that you went to Busch to see the FAST 12 machine that they were making? Is that fair? 13 A. I didn't see the FAST machine. I just 14 was outside. I wanted to know -- you know, I like 15 to know what's going on. 16 Q. Sure. Of course. 17 A. And when I found out they were Arne 18 Anderson's father-in-law's shop, I wanted to see 19 what it looked like. 20 Q. I see. 21 A. So I took a ride. 22 Q. And Arne Anderson's the man who 23 conceived and developed the FAST machine, right? JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 57 1 A. As far as I know. 2 Q. So you just drove up and you were 3 outside the plant? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. So would it be fair, sir, that you 6 would have no personal knowledge as to when -- 7 well, first of all, strike that. 8 Do you have any personal knowledge that 9 Busch actually manufactured FAST machines? 10 A. Other than the name plates on the 11 machines? 12 Q. Yeah. 13 A. I mean, that would be my -- 14 Q. Right. So based just on that, you 15 don't have any personal knowledge that they 16 actually put these things together? 17 A. I never saw anything inside the shop. 18 Q. Okay. So that would be a yes that you 19 have no personal knowledge that -- 20 A. That would be a yes, personal 21 knowledge. 22 Q. Okay. And you said that they were a 23 tool shop of sorts. Do you know at all like what JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 58 1 types of things that they made or sold at all? 2 A. I never had any competition with Busch. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. They were not in the test machine 5 field, to my way of thinking. 6 Q. Right. They didn't do what you guys 7 did, right? 8 A. They don't do it. They didn't. No. 9 Q. So that would lead me to think they 10 probably have no reason to manufacture a FAST 11 machine, true? 12 A. No. 13 Q. They wouldn't, right? 14 A. If you offer me a job to make some 15 parts and I'm a parts maker, I'm going to say yes. 16 Q. I understand what you're saying. But 17 again, you have no knowledge whether or not they 18 ever actually did that, though? You have no 19 knowledge that they actually ever assembled a FAST 20 machine and sold it? 21 A. I don't know if they assembled it. I 22 don't know if they sold it. I don't think they 23 gave them away. And I did have to repair them. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 59 1 I've had them in my shop. 2 Q. Okay. When was that? When were you 3 repairing FAST machines? 4 A. Since probably in the '70s sometime. 5 Q. Okay. When in the '70s? 6 A. But mostly later because they would -- 7 they would be running unsatisfactorily. People 8 knew that we were in the test machine business and 9 that's how we'd get our business. 10 Q. So you would repair FAST machines 11 sometime in the -12 A. We would repair some . 13 Q. In the later ' 70s? 14 A. Okay. Or later. 15 Q. Or '80s? 16 A. Or '90s. 17 Q. Or '90s. 18 They ' re still being used today, do you know? 19 A. I would suppose so. But not -- not -- 20 mostly in foreign countries. 21 Q. Okay. Sir, besides these three 22 documents now, were there any other documents that 23 Ford showed you that you looked at? JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 60 1 A. No. Ford. I'm sorry. Because I'm 2 thinking back 30 years or 40. 3 Q. I'm sorry. I just meant with respect 4 to -5 A. No. This is it. 6 Q. So they didn't show you the Ford FAST 7 instruction manual? 8 Well, sir, what is that, Exhibit Number 1? 9 A. This is a test report. 10 Q. Right. 11 A. I did see the manual. 12 Q. You did see the manual? 13 A. I did. 14 Q. When? 15 A. Would have been yesterday. And it is 16 the same manual that I have probably back at the 17 shop . 18 Q. Okay. And you would agree it says Ford 19 on it? 20 A. I would say so, yes. 21 MR. VONA: Okay. Do you have the manual 22 that you showed him, Brian? 23 MR. CROSBY: Sure. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 61 1 (A recess was then taken.) 2 BY MR. VONA: 3 Q. Sir, before we go forward on this, I've 4 got to ask you: With respect to the money that 5 you're being paid, the $2,000, did Ford offer to 6 pay that to you to come to Buffalo? 7 A. No . 8 Q. Was that your idea? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Did your company, Greening, did you 11 ever sell FAST machines? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Okay. When was the first time you sold 14 a FAST machine? 15 A. We made the FAST machine. 16 Q. You made them and sold them? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. When was the first time you guys 19 actually sold a FAST machine? 20 A. Early '70s. 21 Q. Okay. And you said that you guys - 22 sir, do you have any personal knowledge whether 23 any -- well, strike that. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 62 1 Let me ask you about -- who did you sell 2 FAST machines to? Do you recall any specific 3 customers ? 4 A. Well, I know Karachi, Pakistan. 5 Q. The country Pakistan? 6 A. Yeah. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. There ' s one in Afghanistan. One 9 India. Remco I think was the name of the outfit at 10 that time. 11 Q. Would this have been in the '70s or -- 12 A. No . Well, it might have been the '70s 13 , yeah. 14 Q. You still sell them, right? 15 A. We would. We haven't, but we would. 16 Q. And did -- you said that they -- you 17 guys manufactured the FAST machines? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Okay. Who did that exactly? Who 20 actually manufactured them? Who put them together? 21 Just technicians at Greening? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Okay. How did you know how to do that? JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 63 1 A. We're machine builders. 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. And we were given the plans, the things 4 we don't have here. We were given the document 5 showing the machine. We were given drawings from 6 Ford, from -- Arne Anderson was my only contact at 7 that Scientific and Research Laboratory. 8 Q. Understood. 9 A. They -10 Q. So -- go ahead. I didn't mean to cut 11 you off. 12 A. All right. I don't want to say too 13 much . 14 Q. Why's that ? 15 A. Well, I don't want to talk too much. 16 (Telephonic interruption.) 17 THE WITNESS: Excuse me please. 18 MR. VONA: Sure. 19 (Discussion off the record.) 20 THE WITNESS: So, we were given the plans. 21 BY MR. VONA: 22 Q. By Ford? 23 A. By Ford. The drawings to make these JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 64 1 pieces. And, now, when you're given a set of 2 drawings, you take a look at them and you then -- 3 you develop an opinion as to certain issues that 4 you see and the tolerances on these particular 5 parts, but you make them according to the drawings. 6 Q. Ford's drawings? 7 A. Ford's drawings. 8 Q. Did you -- did Greening have to pay 9 anything to receive that information? 10 A. No . 11 Q. And so then there's a number of parts 12 that go into constructing this FAST machine, 13 correct? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And as we look at Exhibit Number 2, 16 like, for instance, we see these things up here 17 that say AB, that's Allen-Bradley, right? 18 A. That's correct. 19 Q. What are those, sir? 20 A. Those are starters. Motor starters. 21 Q. And would it be fair to say that the 22 FAST machine that Greening constructed would 23 compose a number of different component parts from JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 65 1 other manufacturers? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Do you have any personal knowledge, you 4 yourself, of any companies that actually sold FAST 5 machines in the late 1960s? 6 A. Link Engineering Company would have 7 done that . 8 Q. In the 1960s? 9 A. It would have been late 1960, I would 10 think. 11 Q. Well, do you have any personal 12 knowledge exactly when they started this? 13 A. I wasn't there. Remember, '62, I was 14 outside. 15 Q. Right? 16 A. '64, I'm starting my own company. 17 Q. Right. 18 A. And to my knowledge, at that point, I 19 probably didn't know about the FAST machine. 20 Q. Sure. What's your understanding as to 21 when Arne Anderson developed the FAST machine? 22 Around what year? Or what time frame? 23 A. Probably when he gave this paper. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 66 1 Q. 1967? 2 A. I would say so. 3 Q. And at that time you were already with 4 Greening Associates, correct? 5 A. We had our own shop in 1966. 6 Q. Fair. So would it be fair to say that, 7 I mean, nobody outside of Ford, prior to 1967, 8 would even know how to make one of these FAST 9 machines? Wouldn't that be true? 10 A. Probably even Ford, right? 11 Q. I'm sorry? 12 A. Probably Ford wouldn't know. You know, 13 when they got started with the thing it probably 14 didn't work very well. 15 Q. Well, in 1967, Arne Anderson wrote a 16 paper? 17 A. Okay. He wrote the paper. 18 Q. So clearly they knew how to make one in 19 1 967 ? 20 A. That's right. He was pushing that in 21 competition with the Chase machine -- 22 Q. Sure . 23 A. -- which we were making. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 67 1 2 that . Q. Sure. And do you recall when -- strike 3 Was Link manufacturing -- did they start 4 selling FAST machines around the same time that you 5 did? 6 A. No. Before we did. 7 Q. How long before you guys did? 8 A. Several years. 9 Q. Okay. Do you know one way or another 10 whether or not it was -- they started in 1971 or 11 1972? Do you know specifically? 12 A. Not specifically. 13 Q. So it would be fair -- you really 14 don't -- it's a long time ago, I understand that. 15 A. It's not that. How would I know? 16 Q. Right, because you weren't working for 17 Link. 18 A. They could be selling them for a couple 19 years. I might not know that. 20 Q. I guess that's why I kind of asked you 21 the question that way. Really, I'm concerned 22 with -- I want to know what your personal knowledge 23 is, what you really know. And it would be fair to JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 68 1 say that you actually don't know specifically when 2 Link started selling FAST machines, isn't that 3 true? 4 A. Specifically, correct. 5 Q. Thank you. 6 Any other companies in the late 1960s that 7 you have personal knowledge was selling FAST 8 machines? 9 A. No, I don't know. 10 Q. All right. 11 MR. CROSBY: Other than who? 12 THE WITNESS: Other than the original Busch 13 and then Link. 14 BY MR. VONA: 15 Q. Sir, let me back up again and ask these 16 questions again. 17 A. Okay. 18 Q. All right. And I'd appreciate -- 19 MR. PONTERIO: And you know you're just 20 supposed to raise objections, not suggest answers, 21 Brian. 22 MR. CROSBY: I didn't suggest an answer. 23 MR. PONTERIO: You know you did. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 69 1 MR. VONA: Come on. If you've got an 2 objection, Brian, make an objection, but don't 3 speak like that. That's not fair. Please. 4 MR. CROSBY: I thought -- well -- 5 MR. VONA: Let's just -- we'll go forward. 6 MR. CROSBY: Go ahead. 7 MR. VONA: All right. 8 BY MR. VONA: 9 Q. Sir, as you know, we're here and I'm 10 asking you questions about what you actually know. 11 A. I understand. 12 Q. You never worked for Busch, correct? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. And we already established earlier you 15 testified that you have no personal knowledge as to 16 if they even sold FAST machines, isn't that right? 17 MR. CROSBY: Objection to form. 18 BY MR. VONA: 19 Q. Didn't you say that earlier? 20 A. If they -- if they ever sold FAST 21 machines ? 22 Q. Yeah. Do you have personal knowledge 23 whether or not Busch ever actually sold FAST JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 70 1 machines? Do you know that? 2 A. Only as evidenced by the machines that 3 we repaired. 4 Q. Okay. So the answer to that then - 5 you're -- you're -- hold on. Let me ask you a 6 question. 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. So basically you're making an 9 assumption that because you repaired a FAST machine 10 in the '70s that had a Busch tag on it, that Busch 11 made it; is that a fair statement? 12 A. That's what I'm assuming. 13 Q. Okay. Now, likewise, since you didn't 14 work for Busch or Link when they were making FAST 15 machines in the ' 70s, you would have no personal 16 knowledge who they were even selling them to, is 17 that fair? 18 A. That's correct. Unless I saw them in a 19 plant . 20 Q. True. I understand what you're saying. 21 A. And I would get around different 22 places . 23 Q. So you were in the plants in the '70s, JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 71 1 '80s, there were machines that had Link on them as 2 well? 3 A. Absolutely. 4 Q. Did Greening put name tags on any of 5 the FAST machines they sold? 6 A. Yes. It said Greening & Associates. 7 Absolutely. And if we repaired one, it would be on 8 there. 9 Q. So you put a tag on after you repaired 10 it? 11 A. Well, because we changed it. 12 Q. Sure. 13 A. Made it work. 14 Q. To your knowledge, did Link or Busch 15 make repairs to FAST machines? 16 A. I would assume they had to. 17 Q. Okay. So would it be fair, then, if 18 they're repairing FAST machines, they might have 19 put their tag on after they repaired the machine, 20 just like Greening? 21 A. One of our machines? 22 Q. Any machine. 23 A. Well, they might have. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 72 1 Q. Okay. Sir, would it be a fair 2 statement that you have no personal knowledge 3 whether or not Ford actually built FAST machines? 4 A. I've never seen one. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. I would say no. 7 Q. No what? 8 A. Well, no personal knowledgeif Ford 9 ever made a machine. I don't know how they would 10 do it with the facilities that they have, but, you 11 know -- but I've never run across a machine that 12 anybody said they bought from Ford Motor Company. 13 Q. Fair enough. And that would be in the 14 ' 70s and 1980s, though, correct? 15 A. Any time. 16 Q. Okay. Well, you never testified that 17 you were coming across FAST machines in the late 18 '60s? 19 A. That's correct. 20 Q. Okay. Let me ask you about the 21 scientific building at Ford. The research 22 building. 23 A. Yes. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 73 1 Q. Was it a laboratory? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. What kinds of thing did they do in 4 there? 5 A. It was a research building. 6 Q. Yeah. 7 A. And my only -- my only entry into the 8 building was through Anderson's department. 9 Q. Do you know if they tested friction 10 material in that building? 11 A. If they tested friction material? 12 Q. Brake lining material? 13 A. I would suppose they did, yeah. 14 Q. Okay. And the same thing, and I 15 understand your opinion, but you don't have any 16 personal knowledge one way or the other whether or 17 not Ford actually sold FAST machines, right? 18 A. If they had sold a machine, would I 19 have known about it? Is that what you're asking? 20 Q. No. I'm asking if you personally know 21 whether or not -- yes or no, whether or not Ford 22 sold FAST machines? 23 A. I would have to say no. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 74 1 Q. You don't know? 2 A. I don't know. 3 Q. You've heard of Durez Plastics? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. The first time you heard of it was from 6 the Ford lawyers ? 7 A. No. I ' ve heard of Durez before. 8 Q. Have you ever done any business 9 dealings with Durez? 10 A. I think we've done testing for them. 11 Q. Okay. Where was Durez located? 12 A. I don't know. 13 Q. Okay. Do you know what state they were 14 in? 15 A. No . 16 Q. What can you tell me about the Durez 17 that -- well, strike that. 18 When did you think that Greening did any 19 business with a company called Durez? 20 A. I would have no idea. 21 Q. Would it have been -- 22 A. We have been in business doing testing 23 since 1967 on the Chase machine. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 75 1 Q. Sure. 2 A. Now, the name is familiar to me. The 3 testing, if we did it for them, whenever we did it, 4 how would -- I wouldn't know. 5 Q. Do you even know what kind of testing 6 you maybe did? 7 A. It would have been friction testing. 8 It would have been on a Chase machine. 9 Q. The Durez that you think you may have 10 done some testing for, do you know what type of 11 business it was? 12 A. A chemical company, I thought. 13 Q. Did they make friction material? 14 A. I assume they would have. Either that 15 or -- either that or they were thinking about it. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. Mind you -- can I tell you? 18 Q. Yeah. Go ahead. Please. 19 A. Many times we get samples from people 20 that are not in the business. We had 3M send us 21 some stuff one time thinking they were maybe going 22 to try that. And they have their own ideas and you 23 do some testing and they decide it's not JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 76 1 worthwhile. 2 Q. And just so we're clear, you don't have 3 any time frame as to when you did business with 4 Durez ? 5 A. No. No. We've done business with 6 hundreds of friction companies around the world. 7 Q. Have you ever been to the Durez plant? 8 A. No. 9 Q. You would agree with me then that you 10 have no personal knowledge as to what was going on 11 at the Durez plant? 12 A. No, I wouldn't know. 13 Q. Has Greening ever sold a FAST machine 14 to Durez ? 15 A. I'd have to check our records. 16 Q. Do you have records for that? 17 A. We have records. 18 Q. Okay. And if you did, though, it would 19 have been sometime in the 1970s, according to your 20 testimony, right? 21 A. Not necessarily. I mean, we've sold 22 the machine for 30 years. 23 Q. Okay. Well, that would take us back to JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 77 1 1981. 2 A. Let's go the other way. We haven't 3 sold a machine in the last ten years, not in this 4 century. 5 Q. So that takes us back to the early 6 '70s? 7 A. Yeah. I'm saying during that time. 8 Q. But you don't have a specific 9 recollection of selling a FAST machine to Durez? 10 A. No . 11 Q. Do you have any personal knowledge 12 concerning the friction particle project that was 13 going on at Durez in the late '70s, early '80s? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Were you told what Mr. Ginter was 16 actually doing with the FAST machine by the Ford 17 attorneys? 18 A. They mentioned he was using the 19 machine. 20 Q. Okay. 21 A. He was running it. 22 Q. Okay. Did they talk to you about how 23 he prepared test samples? JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 78 1 A. No . 2 Q. 3 machine ? Okay. Have you ever worked on a FAST 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. A long time ago. 7 Q. With friction material? 8 A. Sure . 9 Q. How did you prepare the sample to put 10 it into the FAST machine? 11 A. You have a little fixture and it's 12 shaped, and then you file off the edges. 13 Q. You hacksaw the material to a shape? 14 A. Yeah. 15 Q. And then you file it? 16 A. Hacksaw or on the machine a -- 17 Q. Grinder? 18 A. Not a grinder but a band. Band saw. 19 Q. Okay. Band saw. 20 A. You would have a special machine set 21 aside in an area where you're doing any cutting. 22 Actually we have a paint booth, old paint booth. 23 Turn the blowers on and do your work in the paint JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 79 1 booth. 2 Q. You would have no personal knowledge as 3 to who sold Durez a FAST machine in the late '60s, 4 would you? 5 A. No . 6 Q. And you'd have no personal knowledge 7 how they came to have a FAST machine in the late 8 1960s? 9 A. No. 10 MR. CROSBY: I just object to the form of 11 those two questions. 12 MR. VONA: Sure. 13 BY MR. VONA: 14 Q. You have no personal knowledge as to 15 how Durez came to have a Ford instruction manual, 16 do you? 17 A. Again, please. 18 Q. Would you have any personal 19 knowledge -- would you know why Durez had a Ford 20 FAST machine instruction manual? Do you have any 21 personal knowledge as to that? 22 A. Only in that I got a manual from Arne 23 Anderson. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 80 1 Q. Okay. But that's not - 2 A. But I don't know, no. I wouldn't know 3 anything about them. Nothing. 4 Q. Right. Okay. 5 And so, sir, would it be fair to say that 6 when you go over to court this afternoon, you can't 7 tell this jury that Ford did not manufacture the 8 FAST machine that Mr. Ginter used? You can't say 9 that, can you, based on your personal knowledge? 10 A. Based on my personal knowledge, I can't 11 tell them if Ford sold them the machine. Right? 12 Is that what you're saying? 13 Q. That they didn't. Let me ask it again 14 A. Okay. You've got it reversed. 15 Q. Let me ask it again. It's a poor 16 question. 17 A. Okay, go ahead. 18 Q. So, sir, you have no personal 19 knowledge, there's no way that you can tell this 20 jury that Ford did not sell Durez a FAST machine in 21 the late 1960s or 1970? 22 A. No, I can't say that. 23 Q. And certainly Ford had the capability, JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 81 1 they knew how to make a FAST machine, they created 2 it, right ? 3 A. We disagree with this. 4 Q. Let me ask you this: Arne Anderson 5 developed and conceived this machine, right? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Do you know, did Ford make a prototype 8 at all? Do you know? 9 A. Can we have an off -- 10 MR. PONTERIO: We have got to stay on the 11 record. 12 MR. VONA: You've got to stay on. 13 THE WITNESS: Okay. It's inconceivable to 14 me that Arne Anderson would have all of the parts 15 for a FAST machine fabricated at the Ford Motor 16 Company. 17 BY MR. VONA: 18 Q. Well, isn't it possible that he could 19 have had them fabricated somewhere else? 20 A. Somewhere else. 21 Q. Brought the parts in and assembled it? 22 A. He could have done that, he should have 23 done it at their shop. JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 Greening - Vona - 7/7/11 82 1 Q. Sure. I guess -- we're mincing words 2 there, I guess -- well, my question is, they knew 3 the parts necessary to make the FAST machine? 4 A. They knew the parts. They had to put 5 them together to see if they worked. Which, of 6 course, they didn't work when they first put it 7 together. It never does. 8 Q. Eventually, they did, though. 9 A. Eventually, they did. 10 Q. Sir, again, one more question again 11 based on your personal knowledge. You can't sit 12 here today and tell this jury who -- based on your 13 personal knowledge, who, what companies were 14 selling FAST machines in the late 1960s, correct? 15 A. I'd have to say that's -- that would be 16 correct. 17 MR. VONA: Thank you. I don't have any 18 other questions for you, sir. 19 THE WITNESS: Okay. 20 MR. VONA: Appreciate your time. 21 THE WITNESS: You're welcome. 22 (Deposition concluded at 9:50 a.m.) 23 JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 83 1 STATE OF NEW YORK) 2 ss : 3 COUNTY OF ERIE ) 4 5 I DO HEREBY CERTIFY as a Notary Public in and 6 for the State of New York, that I did attend and 7 report the foregoing deposition, which was taken 8 down by me in a verbatim manner by means of machine 9 shorthand. Further, that the deposition was then 10 reduced to writing in my presence and under my 11 direction. That the deposition was taken to be 12 used in the foregoing entitled action. That the 13 said deponent, before examination, was duly sworn 14 to testify to the truth, the whole truth and 15 nothing but the truth, relative to said action. 16 17 18 ANNE T. BARONE, RPR, 19 Notary Public. 20 21 22 23 JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 1 INDEX TO EXHIBITS 2 Exhibit Description 3 EXH . 1 Test Report 4 EXH . 2 5 Diagram of equipment containing a tag on the diagram 6 EXH . 3 7 Document with picture of tag 8 * Exhibits retained by Mr. Crosby. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 JACK W. HUNT & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1420 Liberty Building Buffalo, New York 14202 - (716) 853-5600 84 Page 45 45 52