Document 4v1x7eeroR39DpNd7Q8Jd4V8R

FILE NAME: Dana (DAN) DATE: 2002 May 20 DOC#: DAN006 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Legal - Deposition of Gary Austin with Handwritten BC Notes /-I / ^7 r ^ / j 4 o ' *\ ^ r/J 7 ^ z ^ - -'cX oe ^ *^ - s? ^ S/^ f) ~~Z^ j / > * - 1 /% r y ^ Page 1 1 CAUSE NO. B-150,3 74-AK 2 WILLIAM L. COTTON, ET AL, ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF 3 VS. ) ) JEFFERSON COUNTY, TEXAS ) 4 A.P. GREEN REFRACTORIES ) COMPANY, ET AL ) 6OTH JUDICIAL DISTRICT 5 CAUSE NO. B-150,374-AM 6 ZORA BELL COLE, ET AL ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF 7 ) VS. ) JEFFERSON COUNTY, TEXAS 8 ) PITTSBURGH CORNING, ET ) 6OTH JUDICIAL DISTRICT 9 10 11 ORAL VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF 12 GARY AUSTIN 13 MAY 20, 2002 14 *************************************************** 15 ORAL VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION of GARY AUSTIN, 16 produced as a witness at the instance of the 17 Plaintiffs, and duly sworn, was taken in the 18 above-styled and numbered cause on the 20th day of 19 May, 2002, from 1:42 p.m. to 5:50 p.m., before 20 Janie P. Trapp, RPR, Texas CSR No. 6789 in and for 21 the State of Texas, reported by computerized 22 stenotype machine, at the offices of Germer, Bernsen 23 & Gertz, 550 Fannin Street, 7th Floor, Beaumont, 24 Texas, pursuant to the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure 25 and the provisions stated on the record. DAN 01065 Nell McCallum & Associates Page 2 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 FOR PLAINTIFFS: 4 MR. BRENT W. COON SBOT: 04769750 5 MR. JOHN R. THOMAS SBOT: 19856400 6 MR. MARK L. HAYES SBOT: 00793921 7 Brent Coon & Associates 3550 Fannin Street 8 Beaumont, Texas 77706 9 - and - 10 MR KEN WILSON Ness, Motley, Loadholt, Richardson, Poole 11 28 Bridgeside Boulevard Ml Pleasant, South Carolina 29464 12 FOR DEFENDANT - DANA CORPORATION, AMCHEM 13 CORPORATION, CERTA1NTEED CORPORATION, MAREMONT, C.E. THURSTON, and UNION CARBIDE: 14 MS. PAULA H. BLAZEK 15 SBOT: 09383600 Germer, Bemsen & Gertz 16 550 Fannin, 7th Floor Beaumont, Texas 77701 17 FOR DEFENDANT DANA: 18 MR. R THOMAS RADCLIFFE JR 19 Church, Loker, Radcliffe & Silver, P. A. 2 North Charles StreeL Suite 600 - B&O Building 20 Baltimore, Maryland 21201 21 - and - 22 MR. DAVID A. SPEZIALI Speziali, Greenwald & Hawkins 23 P.O.Box 1787 37 Oak Ridge Drive 24 Voorhees, New Jersey 08043 25 1 FOR DEFENDANT QUIGLEY: 2 MR. STEPHEN McCLEERY SBOT: 00794258 3 Powers & Frost, L.L.P. 2600 Two Houston Center, 909 Fannin 4 Houston, Texas 77010 5 FOR DEFENDANT CLEAVER-BROOKS: 6 MS. MICHELLE D. FULLER 7 SBOT: 24032211 Sammons & Parker 8 11200 Westheimer, Suite 520 Houston, Texas 77042 9 '0 11 ALSO PRESENT: 12 Ms. Lane Andrae 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 , 24 25 Mr. Paul Robichau COMPLETE LITIGATION SUPPORT 398 Pearl, Suite 1010 Beaumont, Texas 77701 Page 4 1 t f ? I i i s i j i i 1 1 I 1 I 1 FOR DEFENDANTS FLUOR and MISSISSIPPI CHEMICAL: 2 MR. PRESTON D. HUTSON SBOT: 00796806 3 Adams &Coffey, P C. Petroleum Tower 4 550 Fannin, Suite 800 Beaumont, Texas 77701 5 FOR DEFENDANT BROWN & ROOT: 6 MS. ANGELA S. WHITTENBERG 7 GODWIN GRUBER, P.C. Renaissance Tower 8 1201 Elm Street, Suite 1700 Dallas, Texas 75270 9 FOR DEFENDANT BIRD, INCORPORATED: 10 MR BRIAN S. CLARY 11 SBOT: 04325100 Brian S. Clary &Associates 12 402 Staitti Humble, Texas 77338 13 FOR DEFENDANT BORG-WARNER CORPORATION: 14 MR. MARKVANCLEAVE 15 SBOT: 24008197 The Baker Law Firm 16 12600 Featherwood, Suite 225 Houston, Texas 77034 17 . FOR DEFENDANT 3-M: 18 MR. KEVIN D. DIDWAY 19 SBOT: 00787364 Tekell, Book, Matthews. Limmer, L.L.P. 20 1221 McKinney, Suite 4300 Houston, Texas 77010 21 FOR DEFENDANT U.S. STEEL: 22 MR DAVID M. MINCES 23 SBOT: 24026880 Munisterri. Sprott, Rigby, Newsom &Robbins, APC 24 3323 Richmond Avenue, Suite A Houston, Texas 77098 25 Page 3 Page 5 ; 1 INDEX 2 PAGE 3 Appearances......................................2 1 4 Stipulations..................................... 8 i 5 GARY AUSTIN j 6 Examination by Mr. Coon.................... 9 | 7 Errata Sheet..................................... 171 i 8 Reporter's Certificate...........................173 | 9 EXHIBITS 1 10 NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE ! 11 (EXHIBIT NOS. 1 THROUGH 25 WERE MARKED IN A 1 12 PRIOR DEPOSITION) | 13 26 Plaintiffs' Amended Notice of the Intention | to Take the Oral Deposition of Gary Austin f 14 (3 Pages)................................... 9 j 15 27 "Toxic Substances" Documents Bates Stamped 1 VMG-30-0000084 through VMG-30-0000093......18 f 16 1 28 Note Dated 6-17-58, Documents Bates Stamped I 17 VMG-32-0001452 through VMG-32-0001454......24 j 18 29 Subject: Asbestos Millboard Document Dated ! 3-16-64 and Documents Bates Stamped I 19 VMG-32-0001448 through VMG-32-0001451 ......48 | 20 30 Subject: Asbestopac Document Dated 4-5-67 | and Documents Bates Stamped VMG-32-0001455 j 21 through VMG-32-0001457.....................70 1 22 31 Letter to D. J. Reda and Documents Bates 1 Stamped VPD-91-0000090 through VPD-91-0000092 j 23 and VPD-91-0000160 through VPD-91-0000163 ... 75 j 24 32 Minutes of Victor Gasket Division and j Documents Bates Stamped VPD-157-0000038 j 25 through VPD-157-0000040.................... 80 j Nell McCallum & Associates 2 (Pages 2 to 5) NO. DESCRIPTION - (EXHIBITS Continued) 33 1973 Capital Budge Document Bates Stamped VPD-145-0000097.............................88 PAGE 34 May 6, 1975, Letter and Documents Bates Stamped VPD-146-0002956 through VPD-146-0002959.............................90 35 File Pack Notes Dated 9-23-75 and Documents Bates Stamped VPD-14-0000149 through VPD-14-0000152..............................94 36 U.S. Department of Labor Documents Bates Stamped VPD-145-0002219 through VPD-145-0002224.............................98 37 UAW Document and February 9. 1977 Letter Bates Stamped VPD-143-000! 130 and VPD-143-0001131 .............................102 38 February 11, 1977, Letter to Mr. Meyer Document Bates Stamped VPD-143-0001127 and VPD-143-0001128 ........................ 104 39 Letter to Mr. Dean from Mr. Ulfig. Document Bates Stamped VPD-143-0001113 .............. 108 40 Letter to Mr. North from Mr. Drinkwater and MSDS Documents, Bates Stamped VPD-143-0000446 through VPD-143-0000448.................... 113 41 MSDS Documents Bates Stamped VPD-143-0000442 through VPD-143-0000445.................. 115 42 Memo From Mr. Butler and NIOSH Notes, Documents Bates Stamped VPD-143-0000241 through VPD-143-0000243 .................... 124 43 "Why Consider Non-Asbestos?" and News Release Documents, Bates Stamped VPD-146-0003336 through VPD-146-0003339 .................... 128 44 Intra-Company Communication (May 6, 1980) Document Bates Stamped VPD-143-0000465 128 45 News Documents and Letter to Mr. Butler from Mr. Brown Bates Stamped VPD-157-0000125 and VPD-157-0000124 ........................ 135 Page 6 Page S 1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER. Were on the record 2 at 1:42. 3 THE REPORTER: The stipulations? 4 MR. COON: Counsel, pursuant to the 3 Rules'.' ?i MS. BLAZER: Yes. Wc will read. 7 GARY AUSTIN. .3 having first been duly sworn, testified as follows: 9 MR. COON: Could wc get the 10 identification of the parties. Counsel, and who 11 you're here for? 12 You have Brent Coon for plaintiffs. 13 MR. THOMAS: John Thomas for the 14 plaintiffs. 15 MR. HAYES: Mark Hayes for the 16 plaintiffs. 17 MR. VANCLEAVE: Mark VanCleave for 18 Borg-Wamer. 19 MR. DIDWAY: Kevin Didway for 3-M. 20 MR. MINCES: David Minces, U.S. Steel. 21 MR. HUTSON: Preston Hutson for Flour 22 and Mississippi Chemical. 23 MS. FULLER: Michelle Fuller for 24 Cleaver-Brooks. 25 MR. MCCLEERY: Stephen McCleery for Page 7 1 NO. DESCRIPTION - (EXHIBITS Continued) PAGE 2 46 Letter to Mr. North From Mr. Neill (April 1, 1982) Bates Stamped 3 VPD-157-0000I31 ............................ 137 4 47 Letter to Mr. North from Mr. Neill (April 1, 1982) Bates Stamped 5 VPD-157-0000130 ............................ 139 6 48 Intra-Company Communication (August 6, 1982) Document Bates Stamped VPD-143-0000061 ..... 149 7 49 Intra-Company Communication (August 2, 1984) 8 and Cross-Reference Chart, Documents Bates Stamped VPD-157-0002252 and VPD-157-0002253 . 150 9 50 Intra-Company Communication (January 8. 1985) 10 and Documents, Bates Stamped VPD-146-0002851 and VPD-146-0002852 ........................ 153 11 51 "List of Concerns by Engineering People" 12 Document Bates Stamped VPD-143-0000739 through VPD-143-0000742 .................... 154 13 52 "Quality Control Concerns) Document Bates 14 Stamped VPD-109-0000451 through VPD-109-0000458 ............................ 157 15 16 ***** 17 18 19 2210 22 23 24 25 Page 9 1 Quigley. 2 MR. SPEZIALI: David Speziali for Dana. 3 MR. RADCLIFFE: Tom Radcliffe for Dana. 4 MS. BLAZER: And Paula Blazek for Dana. 5 (EXHIBIT NO. 26 WAS MARKED) 6 MR. COON: And we have as Exhibit 26 7 what we'll call the notice to the deposition to 8 attach to the records. 9 Any objections, Counsel? 10 MS. BLAZEK: No, objections. 11 EXAMINATION 12 BY MR. COON (1:44 P.M.): 13 Q. Mr. Austin, good afternoon, sir. 14 A. Good afternoon. : 15 Q. Appreciate you coming down to Beaumont 16 today. I had the opportunity to depose you, 1 17 believe, Monday a week ago in Kentucky, in Danville? 18 A. Right. 19 Q. And we had issued a deposition of a person 20 knowledgeable regarding certain matters to Dana's 21 counsel and they proffered you in response and it's 22 my understanding we took you by deposition in 23 Danville that day because you had some business up 24 there and unfortunately you had other business to 25 attend to that afternoon and there were some issues Nell McCallum & Associates 3 (Pages 6 to 9) Page 10 1 that we wanted to cover with you that we didn't have 2 time for and there were also some concerns with 3 respect to which hat you were wearing. 4 It's my understanding, at that deposition, 5 your attorneys were concerned that you may be asked 6 questions o f a nature other than what they had 7 proffered you as a corporate representative. 8 So, it's m y understanding that we're here 9 again today to follow up with a number o f lines o f 10 questions that we had wanted to ask you last week but 11 that we're doing so today as a general notice to you 12 as a person with knowledge o f relevant facts as 13 opposed to a bona fide spokesperson for the 14 corporation. Is that my understanding? 15 MS. BLAZEK: I won't address the entire 16 statement that Counsel made; but Mr. Austin was 17 tendered on May 13 in Danville, Kentucky, as a 18 designated corporate representative for Dana 19 Corporation on certain limited topics. 20 Plaintiffs' counsel has requested the 21 opportunity to depose Mr. Austin as a person with 22 knowledge o f relevant facts; and that is Mr. Austin's 23 capacity today, for today's deposition. He is being 24 tendered as a fact witness for those items o f which 25 he would have personal knowledge. Page 12 1 several hundred thousand documents that were in a 2 repository at the Toledo, Ohio, facilities. 3 And I believe it was actually the corporate 4 offices in Toledo or their lawyers' offices? i 5 MS. BLAZEK: (Moving head up and down) ; 6 Q. (BY MR. COON) And in reviewing those 7 documents, I don't know if we --I think they're 8 still being supplemented at this time; but we've 9 pulled a number o f those documents to ask you further 10 questions today and I don't know how many o f them 11 that you've been privy to in the past and, so, 12 therefore, we're just going to ask you as w e go 13 through them if you've seen them and what you know 14 about them. 15 So, we may jump around a lot more today than 16 we did last time, is kind of the point I'm getting 17 to. So, if you'll bear with us. ' 18 A. All right. < 19 Q. In going through the documents that I 20 would - for personal purposes, just to acknowledge, 21 it's called a corporate history type information, the ` 22 history o f knowledge. We have these kind o f 1 23 chronologically from the earliest ones that w e found j 24 going to the present. And one o f the topics I wanted J 25 to ask a question about last time was, generally, j Page 11 1 MR. COON: Okay. 2 MS. BLAZEK: He is not being tendered 3 as a corporate representative o f Dana or on any 4 particular designated topic as a corporate 5 representative today. 6 MR. COON: Okay. 7 Q. (BY MR. COON) And, Mr. Austin, I presume 8 today you're still employed with Dana, are you not, 9 sir? 10 A. Yes, la m . 11 Q. Okay. And what is your title at this time? 12 A. The plant manager ofth e Victor Reinz 13 Division Plant in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, 14 Q. Mr. Austin, w e covered a lot o f areas at 15 your deposition last week; and I'll try not to be 16 redundant in covering those same topics again today. 17 There were a number o f areas that I wanted to ask 18 questions o f you, sir, concerning Dana's corporate 19 history, specific with respect to the types o f 20 products they made that contained asbestos over the 21 course o f the years which was covered in some detail 22 at the last deposition and what Dana did in response 23 to the changing environment with respect to the 24 putative hazards associated with asbestos. And in 25 that regard, w e have had the privilege o f reviewing l 1 Page 13 | 1 what did your employer know and when did they know it j 2 as it related to the potential problems associated to j 3 asbestos. j 4 And you first went to work there back in the J 5 Sixties, I believe you told us last week? j 6 A. 1968. ? 7 Q. Once you were employed there and over the 8 course of the years as you went through the lines of 9 progression at the plant, did you ever get some 10 understanding as to some o f the issues with respect 11 to what Dana may have known about asbestos hazards in , 12 the days that preceded your employment? < 13 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 1 14 A. I really don't have much information prior 1 15 to the time that I was employed by Dana. I started 4 16 my employment in February o f 1968. Dana Corporation 17 had purchased or had acquired the Victor 18 Manufacturing and Gasket Company in 1966, and I ' 19 really have very little knowledge as to what , 20 information they might have had at that point in 21 time. 22 Q. (BY MR. COON) In the ensuing years for your j 23 employment with Dana, were you ever given any type of i 24 additional training or education or background with j 25 respect to industry knowledge with respect to the i !5 4 (Pages 10 to 13) Nell McCallum & Associates Page 14 1 potential hazards in the use of asbestos? 2 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 3 A. We discussed asbestos a number of times over 4 the years in regards to housekeeping issues, that 5 dust, asbestos dust was something that we wanted to 6 contain or minimize as much as we possibly could. It 7 was covered in general terms at safety meetings. 8 It was covered a bit more specifically with 9 me when I was a supervisor in the warehousing area. 10 But, in general, the focus was on good housekeeping, 11 minimizing the amount o f airborne particles from 12 operations in the plant. 13 Q. (BY MR. COON) And this is going to be 14 another somewhat broad question: But did you ever 15 wear a hat at Dana where you were responsible for 16 simulating some o f the historical information with 17 respect to corporate information at Dana, concerning 18 asbestos? 19 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 20 A. No, I don't believe I was. 21 Q. (BY MR. COON) Do you know whether or not 22 there was any research done at Dana with respect to 23 reviewing archives, older archives o f Victor or Dana 24 with respect to information concerning asbestos? 25 A. I know that there was research done by a Page } (S 1 A. No, I don't. 2 Q. Have you heard o f an organization called the 3 Asbestos Gasket or Fluid & Sealing Association'.' 4 A. No, I haven't. 5 Q. Were you a member o f any organizations, 6 associations during your tenure at Dana? 7 A. Association for Manufacturing Excellence. 1 8 was a member of SME. 9 Q. "SME" is what, sir? 10 A. Society of Manufacturing Engineers. 11 Q. Okay. Who would know more about the 12 different organizations that Dana may have been 13 associated with that dealt with the gasket industry? 14 A. The industry in general? 15 Q. Yes, sir. 16 A. Probably someone from the engineering group 17 at that point in time, perhaps Mr. John Zeitz who was 18 the director of engineering, perhaps Mr. John Damusis 19 who also was in the engineering area. 20 Q. Had you ever heard o f the Fluid & Sealing 21 Association? 22 A. No, I haven't. 23 Q. Are you aware o f any other organizations 24 that serve the gasket or sealing industries? 25 A. I know that there was a Gasket Fabricators Page 15 1 number o f legal people in regards to archived 2 information. 3 Q. Were there particular areas where archived 4 information o f that nature was stored? 5 A. Yes, there were. 6 Q. Where would that have been? 7 A. We're talking specifically about the Chicago 8 facility, which is what I have knowledge of. They 9 would have been stored in, primarily, two places: an 10 area we used to call the tower - 11 Q. And where was the tower, sir? 12 A. The tower was located on Roosevelt Road. It 13 was an area that was above the main office area and 14 it led to an old water tank that had been used years 15 and years ago for fire protection. 16 The other place was an area that we used to 17 refer to as the vault area. That was located about 18 midway --let me get my directions correct. It was 19 north of Roosevelt Road about a half a block inside 20 the building. It was an area below some mezzanine 21 offices and above a low ceilinged area. 22 Q. Do you know what organizations Dana might 23 h av e been involved in, membership, or holding a board 24 position with during the years you were employed 25 there? Page 17 1 Association. 2 Q. Do you know whether or not Dana was a member 3 o f that? 4 A. My understanding was that they had been a 5 member on and off over the years. 6 Q. Do you know if that organization still 7 exists? 8 A. Yes, I believe it does. 9 Q. Do you know where their offices or 10 headquarters are? 11 A. No, 1 don't. 12 Q. Were you ever a member of that organization? 13 A. I personally? 14 Q. Yes, sir. 15 A. No. 16 Q. Who at Dana was, if you know? 17 A. Once again, I don't really know. It would 18 have probably been --it would have probably been out 19 o f the engineering group. 20 Q. Were there certain industry magazines that 21 you ever subscribed to or were provided by Dana? 22 A. We received lots o f industry magazines. We 23 were on the mailing list for a lot of, you know, free 24 magazines and trade magazines. 25 Q. Any o f them you can recall offhand that were Nell McCallum & Associates 5 (Pages 14 to 17) Page 18 1 specific to the gasket industry? 2 A. Specific to the gasket industry, no. 3 Q. Was it more just general to the automotive 4 industry and things like that? 5 A. Auto world, diesel world. 6 Q. Were you familiar with a magazine called the 7 Factory Management and Maintenance? 8 A. No, I don't believe so. 9 Q. I've got excerpts of one o f their documents. 10 This one is VMG dash 30 dash 84 through 93, and this 11 was volume - appears to be Volume 108, No. 12, 12 December o f 1950; and we can mark it as No. 27. 13 (EXHIBIT NO. 27 WAS MARKED) 14 Q. And, Mr. Austin, this appears to be copies 15 o f one o f their magazines which included information 16 concerning toxic substances. One o f those that were 17 listed was asbestos as well as the concentration 18 levels that were permitted by the government at that 19 time. 20 MS. BLAZEK: It appears to be 21 incomplete. Were there other items that went with 22 it? 23 MR. COON: That's what w e had. I do 24 not know if there were other pages or not, Counsel. 25 I guess what we could do is --I would presume that Page 20 1 A. I don't recall anything as early as 1968 in 2 regards to asbestos. ;i 3 Q. (BY MR. COON) And when was it, to your best 4 recollection, that you were first made aware o f any 5 type o f industry standards or government standards 6 with respect to permissible levels o f asbestos 7 exposure in manufacturing facilities? 8 A. My recollection would have been that it 9 would have been in the early Seventies, perhaps '71. 1 10 Q. And what triggered that, sir? 11 A. I believe there were some OSHA standards 12 that came about and --about that point in time. 13 That was the point in time where I was a bit more 14 involved in the engineering side o f -- 15 manufacturing/engineering side o f the business; and 16 that's, frankly, my first recollection o f discussions 17 in regard to asbestos. 18 Q. Did you have a role with Dana with respect 19 to OSHA compliance when those standards came out in 20 '72? 1 21 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. | 22 A. No, not as early as '72. 23 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. When was it that you 1 24 first had an official role with Dana in that 1 25 capacity? J 1 Page 19 1 if we made a request to the predated Bates numbers, 2 that that would give us an idea if they have copies 3 o f the complete magazine. 4 MS. BLAZEK: And it may be just the way 5 they were copied front and back that the pages got 6 out of order before they were numbered. That may be 7 the other thing that's going on. 8 A. Okay. Mr. Coon, what's your question? 9 Q. (BY MR. COON) Yes, sir. Well, first, in 10 reviewing that, I take it it doesn't refresh your 11 memory with respect to the magazine or the type of 12 information it provided? 13 A. No, it really doesn't. 14 Q. The information contained there listed a 15 number o f different chemicals or I think just what 16 they called toxic substances in the guide and one o f 17 those was asbestos and it listed some permissible 18 exposure limits, at least at one point in time. 19 And what I'd like to do next, then, in 20 dovetailing that information is ask you: When you 21 went to work there in 1968, were you provided any 22 information with respect to what the threshold limits 23 or permissible dust exposure counts were for asbestos 24 in your facilities? 25 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. Page 21 1 1 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. J 2 A. I would --I would say it was probably 1976 | 3 or ' l l when I went into a supervisory capacity. i 4 Q. (BY MR. COON) And what was the title at that j 5 time, sir? j 6 A. I would have been the warehouse manager. j 7 I'm not positive about that date, but... | 8 Q. Okay. That's fair enough. And do you j 9 recall what it was with respect to that title that j 10 brought with it some additional responsibilities with jj 11 OSHA compliance as it related to asbestos? j 12 A. Dana always took OSHA compliance very | 13 seriously; and, at that point in time, I became 1 14 involved in the safety committee to a larger extent i 15 than I had been previous to that. My previous | 16 positions had not been such that I would have been j 17 involved in the safety meetings that were conducted 1 18 for the supervisory personnel in the facility. j 19 Q. And what role did you have prior to that? j 20 You mentioned you had some peripheral roles in the j 21 early Seventies? ; 22 A. Well, I'd worked in - well, I started my \ 23 career as a rate setter and an MTM analyst. I worked j 24 in the production control area as the materials - j 25 supervisor o f materials, and I had been in the j Nell McCallum & Associates J 6 (Pages 18 to 21) Page 22 I costing and process engineering area. 2 Q. Were you familiar at all with what were 3 generically described as airborne dust counts in 4 manufacturing facilities for asbestos or any other 5 types of dust particulates? 6 A. Yes, I was. 7 Q. How far back did you have an understanding 8 of what those were? 9 A. It probably went back to that early time in 10 the Seventies. We had done periodic testing in the 11 facility to be sure that we met the particulate 12 matter levels under recommendations. I guess they 13 were, at that point in time, under OSH A; and -- 14 Q. And what about - I'm sorry. 15 A. And there were some explanations given just 16 to the people who were being tested; so, there were 17 some discussions in the facility about how the 18 testing was being done. 19 Q. Do you know how that process was undertaken, 20 if that was done internally or outside vendors were 21 brought in to provide that type o f information or 22 analysis? 23 A. My recollection is that it was done with 24 the --with outside venders o f some sort. I assumed 25 at the time it related to the insurance company or Page 24 I compensation carriers were over the years'? 0 A. If you gave me the name of certain 3 companies, I might recognize the names: but 1 really 4 don't recall the names of the carriers. 5 (EXHIBIT NO. 28 WAS MARKED) 6 Q. Okay. Let's talk about this one, American 7 Motorists Insurance Company. ' 8 A. I definitely don't remember that name. ( 9 Q. Okay. Let me show you what's marked as ; 10 Austin Exhibit 28. This is another document we . 11 located in the repository. This one is VMG dash 32 12 dash 1452 through 54. ; 13 A. (Reviewing document) Okay. 14 Q. Okay. There's three pages of documents 15 there, sir. The first one appears to be a memo to a : 16 V. Dabrecque Toman (sic)? { 17 A. It was Vince Labrecque. j 18 Q. Vince Labrecque. Who is Vince Labrecque? i 19 A. I'm not exactly sure what his position was. j 20 He was part o f the engineering group. He might have j 21 been a director of developmental engineering or J 22 something like that at the time. } 23 Q. And I take it he was employed at Victor | 24 Gasket prior to the acquisition o f that facility by 25 Dana? j Page 23 1 someone like that. 2 Q. Was there typically somebody associated with 3 your workers' compensation carrier that would be 4 responsible for maintaining information on dust 5 particulate counts? 6 A. 1really can't answer that. 7 Q. Well, when you mentioned "insurance 8 company," I did not know if you were referencing your 9 workers' comp carrier or a general liability carrier 10 or -- 11 A. I - I don't think that 1knew at the time. 12 I think it was just comments, that they contact the 13 insurance company and do testing. 14 Q. Do you know who the carriers might have been 15 in the late Sixties, early Seventies? 16 A. No, 1have no idea. 17 Q. Did you have one carrier over the majority 18 o f the years that you were there, that you know of? 19 A. No, I really don't. 20 Q. Do you know whether or not the workers' 21 compensation issues were one that would be described 22 more as a self-insurance retention policy versus 23 outside carriers? 24 A. At that period of time, I have no idea. 25 Q. Are you aware who any o f the workers' Page 25 ' 1 A. He was there at the time 1came. So, 1 2 would assume that that might be true. f 3 Q. Okay. And then there's a J. - is it Toman, ( 4 Loman? ' 5 A. It -- I believe it's Toman. I recall the 6 name; but, to be honest with you, I have no idea what 7 his position was. 8 Q. And could you tell who that note was from? ; 9 It was partially cut o ff from the preexisting Bates 10 stamp? - 11 A. Oh, the signature that's cut o ff here, no, I 12 really can't. 13 Q. Okay. It's got a 6-17-58 date, says, "A ) 14 photostatic copy o f letter from insurance company for 15 your files. Regarding: Dust condition at beater 16 when cork is used." 17 Did I read that correct? 18 A. 1believe that's what it says, yes. 19 Q. And then attached to that, which is Document 20 32 dash 1453, which also has a separate Bate number 21 o f 008534, is a letter from American Motorists 22 Insurance Company, dated June 9, 1958; is that 23 correct? 24 A. Oh, I see. "No. 008534," is that what 25 you're saying? Nell McCallum & Associates 7 (Pages 22 to 25) Page 26 1 Q. Yes, sir. 2 A. Yes, that's correct. 3 Q. Do you know what that other Bates number 4 references, any idea? 5 A. No, I really don't. 6 Q. We look at --it appears to be a letter from 7 Mr. W. E. Virchow to Mr. John Bleiler (pronouncing) 8 Bleiler. 9 A. I don't know. The name isn't familiar to 10 me. 11 Q. Do you know either one of those gentlemen? 12 A. No. 13 Q. First, do you know W. E. Virchow, industrial 14 hygienist? 15 A. No, I don't know either one o f them. 16 Q. Okay. The letter was addressed to John 17 Bleiler who was apparently the safety director o f 18 Victor Gasket in '58. You don't know one way or the 19 other whether or not he was the safety director? 20 A. No, I do not. 21 Q. And have you ever seen that letter before, 22 sir? 23 A. No, I have not. 24 Q. Well, apparently there was an industrial 25 hygiene visit made to the facility and a few days Page 28 1 5 million particle per cubic part o f air." 2 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 3 Q. (BY MR. COON) Did I read that correctly? 4 MS. BLAZEK: You have to skip the 5 sentence and then go to that one. 6 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. 7 Q. (BY M R COON) It talks about cork dust -- 8 A. Right. 9 Q. --and then asbestos limits. 10 A. You read, "The maximum acceptable 11 concentration o f asbestos dust is 5 million particles 12 per cubic foot o f air." 13 Q. Yes, sir. 14 A. Right. 15 Q. Were you familiar at all at any point in 16 time before today o f this particular study having 17 been performed at a Victor facility? 18 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 19 A. No, I wasn't. 20 Q. (BY M R COON) Okay. N ow, there's some 21 handwriting up on the top right, also, that says, 22 "File - asbestos operational." 23 A. I believe that's correct. 24 Q. Do you know anything about what that would 25 reflect? Page 27 1 prior to the June 9 letter, indicates "June 6th, to 2 evaluate dust exposures at the beater in Department 3 01 while loading cork and asbestos." 4 Did I read that correctly? 5 A. Are you on the third paragraph? 6 Q. First paragraph, first sentence. 7 A. Yes, that's correct. 8 Q. Okay. Do you know where the beater at the 9 Department 01 is, what they're talking about there? 10 A. No, I don't. 11 Q. And it goes on in the second paragraph to 12 talk about the type o f dust counting that was done 13 which was through a Midget Impinger apparatus. Are 14 you familiar with those? 15 A. No, I'm not. 16 Q. And it goes on in the third paragraph and 17 talks about the dust counts, and it indicates that 18 the first paragraph -- first sentence o f the third 19 paragraph, "The dust concentration measured during 20 this operation was 6.2 million particles o f dust per 21 cubic foot o f air." 22 Did I read that correctly? 23 A. Yes, you did. 24 Q. And the third sentence is, "The maximum 25 acceptable concentration of asbestos dust is Page 29 1 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 2 A. No, I really --I really don't know. 3 Q. (BY MR. COON) Know whether or not there was 4 an actual separate filing system for asbestos 5 information at that time? 6 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 7 A. No, I don't. 8 Q. (BY MR. COON) Do you know if there was any 9 type o f asbestos department at the facility at that 10 time frame? 11 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 12 A. Asbestos department, no, I really don't 13 know. 14 Q. (BY MR. COON) Do you know what types of 15 studies were conducted in the years subsequent to 16 this one in 1958? 17 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 18 A. This is ten years before I started there. I 19 really have no idea what would have happened between 20 1958 and 1968. 21 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. And in the decade after 22 that, from '68 to '78, do you know whether or not any 23 additional dust counts were performed at any o f the 24 facilities similar in nature to this one? 25 A. 1know that there were --there was testing Nell McCallum & Associates 8 (Pages 26 to 29) Page 30 1 done in regard to the OSHA particles per million 2 what's the term I'm looking for --the recommended 3 levels as published by OSHA, and I don't know whether 4 the Midget Impinger apparatus was the way it was 5 checked or not. 6 Q. Do you know what areas those types of tests 7 were performed in the Seventies? 8 A. They were normally done at the shear 9 operations where the largest amount of dust would 10 have been anticipated. 11 Q. And could you describe for us what that 12 process entailed in the shear operations department? 13 A. Shear operation was normally a square shear 14 which is a large table with a mechanically operated 15 blade that's tripped. You slide material under this 16 blade --it works on the principal of a very large 17 paper shear --activate the shear blade and comes 18 down and cuts through a stack of material. 19 Q. And what depth o f the stack o f material are 20 we talking about? 21 A. I would say normally in the 2 - 2- to 22 4-inch range. 23 Q. Would this operate somewhat like a cookie 24 cutter? 25 A. It really operated much like the paper shear Page 32 1 A. It would depend on the type of material that 2 we were producing. In general, materials that were 3 used were o f two types: they were either a soft 4 gasket material or what we call a hard gasket 5 material. The definition --or my definition o f 6 those two would be a soft gasket material being some 7 type o f a paper-like material without any metal core 8 to it and what we call a hard gasket material which 9 would have a metal core supporting it. either as a 10 center core or perhaps as one o f the facings. 11 Material might be combined --meaning, the 12 steel is paid off and the core is perforated --then 13 the facing material is introduced to that core, and 14 it's combined on large combiners. That will combine 15 it to gauge, and it's usually either rerolled for 16 future processing or sheared to length off of the 17 combining lines. 18 Q. (BY MR. COON) Did Dana make the rolls or 19 sheets o f gasket material there on their facility, or 20 was that typically provided by another manufacturer'' 21 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. What time 22 period and what type of material? 23 Q. (BY MR. COON) Let's talk about the Seventies 24 first. I guess we can break it down. In the 25 Seventies, when you --late Sixties, first decade you Page 31 1 that you would use in your office if you were going 2 to cut down 8 1/2 by 11 on a paper shear in your 3 office. 4 Q. So, it's not really stamping this out? It's 5 straight line cutting? 6 A. Right. 7 Q. And what would be the purpose o f cutting 8 large sheets into smaller sheets? 9 A. It w ould be the first operation before we 10 would begin a blanking operation o f the product. 11 Q. Okay. So, as part o f the assembly line 12 process, you would have rolls, sheet rolls o f the 13 material com e out. That would then be cut into 14 sections by the shear process? 15 MS. BLAZEK: Object, form. 16 A. Yeah, the material --the material would be 17 cut from larger sizes, either in roll or sheet, into 18 smaller pieces for individual stamping operations, 19 blanking operations. 20 Q. (BY MR. COON) We didn't go - did not go 21 into detail on that process in your last deposition; 22 but could you briefly walk us through the beginning 23 State to the end state o f a g a s k e t m a te ria l being 24 manufactured at your facility? 25 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. Page 33 1 were there, was this an in-house operation or outside 2 operation? 3 A. The combining operation was an in-house 4 operation. 5 Q. What do we mean by "the combining 6 operation"? 7 A. That's the perforating o f the metal core and 8 the adhering o f the facing to the metal core. 9 Q. What about the actual supplying o f the rolls 10 or sheets o f gasket material? 11 A. They would have been purchased from an 12 outside supplier. 13 Q. And did you know who the outside suppliers 14 o f those materials were in the first decade o f your , 15 employment? 16 A. I know that Armstrong was a supplier, 17 Hollingsworth & Vose was a supplier, GAF was a 18 supplier. That's o f the facing materials. The 19 metallics came from Wheeling Pittsburgh. 20 Q. And these facing materials in that first 21 decade, were these predominantly asbestos-containing 22 materials? 23 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 24 A. Those facing materials coming from those 25 suppliers would have had asbestos as part o f the Nell McCallum & Associates 9 (Pages 30 to 33) Page 34 1 material. 2 Q. (BY MR. COON) And do you know what the 3 typical composition of asbestos was in those 4 products -- 5 A. No, I don't. 6 Q. - as a percentage o f the total? 7 A. (Moving head from side to side) 8 Q. Do you know anything about fiber types or 9 any of the other specific -- 10 A. No, I don't. 11 Q. - product specifications? 12 Any idea o f what percentage o f the facing 13 materials that were provided in that manner in the 14 first decade were comprised in part with asbestos? 15 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 16 A. Of those facing materials, most all o f those 17 facing materials would have had asbestos o f one type 18 or another usually made with an elastomeric binder of 19 some sort 20 Q. And then the second decade o f your 21 employment, say, from the late Seventies through the 22 late Eighties, same question. 23 A. The late Seventies through the late 24 Eighties, beginning in the early Eighties, there was 25 a move away from the asbestos content in the facing Page 36 1 200 came into being; but, to the best o f my 2 recollection, all three o f those particular products 3 were being used at the time that I started with Dana. 4 Q. N ow , you told us at your last deposition 5 there were several different product lines and I 6 don't recall all o f them without going back and 7 reviewing that prior deposition but you had 8 Corbestos, you had Victocor, and there were two or 9 three others, I believe, you named. Can you recall 10 those? 11 A. W ell, we used a Victaprene material. We 12 used a Victopac material. Those were -- 13 Q. There were some asbestos - 14 A. Those were the two that come to mind 15 offhand. 16 Q. Okay. What about Asbestoprene or 17 Asbestopac? 18 A. Those were not Victor gasket materials as 19 such. Those were terms applied to facing materials. 20 Q. And do you have any idea how long in the 21 years prior to your employment at Dana had those 22 product lines been manufactured in the same process 23 with asbestos as a component to the gasket material? 24 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 25 A. I really have no idea exactly when those Page 35 1 materials. 2 Q. Were there particular product lines that 3 Dana manufactured at that time that were more 4 suitable to asbestos-free composition? 5 A. I'm sorry. I don't understand the question. 6 Q. Yes, sir. You said that you started 7 shifting away from some o f the asbestos-containing 8 gasket materials in the early, mid-Eighties. Were 9 there particular products that Dana focused on 10 shifting that attention to before others? 11 A. The -- 12 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 13 A. The initial materials that I believe were 14 converted were our standard materials which would 15 have gone under the Corbestos trademark and under the 16 Victocor 150 and Victocor 200 trademarks. That's 17 where the initial work was being done. 18 Q. (BY MR. COON) And were these product lines 19 that were used prevalently in the late Sixties 20 through the late Seventies as well? 21 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 22 Q. (BY MR COON) Were these common products o f 23 Dana during that time frame? 24 A. Yes, they were common products. My only 25 hesitation is I'm not exactly sure o f when Victocor Page 37 1 products came into being. 2 Q. (BY MR. COON) Mr. Austin, when you were out 3 there in the early Sixties, again, that first 4 decade - I'm sorry - late Sixties through late 5 Seventies, the product lines you just mentioned, the 6 Corbestos and the Victo whatever lines - Victocor, 7 Victoprene, Victopac --was that the majority o f the 8 gasket materials that were manufactured at your 9 facility at that time? 10 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 11 A. Majority o f the gasket materials that we 12 produced? Yes. 13 Q. (BY MR. COON) And where did those - did 14 those same gasket materials go to all the venders you 15 described before, being the aftermarket as well as 16 the OE accounts? 17 A. Yes, it would have. 18 Q. So, would it be a fair statement that what 19 was sold by Dana through the late Sixties to the late 20 Seventies to Detroit to the diesel manufacturers, to 21 the automotive manufacturers, those gasket materials 22 that went in their engines would have been gaskets 23 provided by Dana that had an asbestos composition in 24 the facing material? 25 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. Nell McCallum & Associates 10 (Pages 34 to 37) Page 38 1 A. Well, I guess the point o f clarification in 2 your statement from me would be we made a number of 3 gaskets that were not made from gasketting . 4 material --in other words, not combined materials. 5 Of the combined materials we used, yes, it's true 6 that most o f those facing materials would have had 7 asbestos content. We made large numbers o f metallic 8 gaskets, as a for instance, of course, had no 9 asbestos in them. 10 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. And I'm not a gasket 11 specialist; but when you're talking about combined 12 materials versus metal materials, is there a 13 distinction there as it relates to the facing 14 material? Did you have metal facing materials? 15 A. No. 16 Q. So, when we talk -17 A. When we talk metal, we're literally talking 18 black plate or tin plate product with, perhaps. 19 coating on it. 20 Q. Okay. So, with respect to the materials 21 that - what you call a facing material, those were 22 all materials provided by Armstrong or Hollingsworth 23 or GAF or some other outside vender to you guys to 24 make the actual gaskets; and those gaskets uniformly 25 contained asbestos, to the best o f your knowledge? Page 40 1 Victor manufactured gaskets? 2 MS. BLAZER: Object to form. 3 A. 1 don't -- I don't believe that we would be 4 able to do that from our point o f view . 5 Q. (BY MR. COON) Do vou know whether or not 6 Ford would be able to do so? ; 7 A. I would anticipate that Ford would be able > 8 to do that. j 9 Q. Okay. Do you have any idea o f what the ( 10 general market share o f the gasket manufacturing 11 Victor held in the first decade of your employment 12 with the Big 3 automotive manufacturers? 13 MS. BLAZER: Object to form. ' 14 A. I've always been on the manufacturing side. 15 I really know very little about the sales side of the 16 business. ; 17 Q. (BY MR. COON) Who were your major I 18 competitors during the first decade of your ? 19 employment? 5 20 A. Detroit gasket, Fel-Pro, would have been the j 21 two big ones. McCord gasket was also in there. i 22 Q. Do you know how the contracts were effected j 23 with the various manufacturers for using Victor made | 24 gaskets and engines in any given year? ; 25 A. I know contracts were awarded to gasket :. Page 34 1 MS. BLAZER: Object to form. 2 A. I believe that's correct. 3 Q. (BY MR. COON) The next step in that would be 4 where those products went after you manufactured them 5 and it's my understanding you had a lot of business 6 with major automotive manufacturers as well as diesel 7 companies and a few others; correct? 8 A. That's correct. 9 Q. If we were to pull out --say, randomly 10 somebody worked on a 1972 Ford pickup. That's what 11 they had. They had a Ford pickup, say, a 150. And 12 they routinely worked on their own Ford pickup for 13 the next ten years as a shade tree mechanic at their 14 home. Would you be able to tell whether or not that 15 pickup with that Ford engine had the gasket materials 16 that were manufactured from Victor? 17 MS. BLAZER: Object to form. 18 A. You're speaking about a particular 19 application, and I don't know whether on a particular 20 application I'd be able to tell that or not. 21 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. Do you know whether or 22 not, for instance, you could determine where in the 23 particular years as a result o f the type o f contract 24 you had with Ford that all Ford engines made in a 25 certain year for a certain vehicle model contained Page 41 j[ 1 manufacturers - j 2 (CELLULAR PHONE RINGING) i 3 A. - were awarded to gasket manufacturers for , 4 certain years. They were not necessarily exclusive ; 5 contracts in the late Sixties and Seventies. There 6 may have been more than one supplier for a particular ~ 7 application. ; 8 Q. (BY MR. COON) Who would know - who would 9 know more about the actual sales agreements or ; 10 contracts effected between Victor in any given year j 11 and the major purchasers of the gasket materials? s 12 Where would you go? j 13 A. The sales side, general sales manager for I 14 whatever period o f time that you wanted to discuss : 15 would be the most likely individual for that. And 5 16 you asked about - I'm sorry - the purchase of 17 materials? j 18 Q. Yes, sir, from Victor. ; 19 A. Oh, from Victor. Once again, the sales j 20 man- --general sales manager would have been the 21 most knowledgeable, probably. ^ 22 Q. Okay. So, as I understand from your s 23 testimony - let me know if I get off on the wrong , 24 track somewhere --but if a gentleman had a j 25 particular year model vehicle that he worked on at ; j Nell McCallum & Associates 11 (Pages 38 to 41) Page 42 1 his house that had gaskets in the engine, as part of 2 the separation o f various metal components, from your 3 end at Victor, it would be difficult to determine 4 whether or not those gaskets were manufactured by 5 Victor versus one o f their competitors in a given 6 year? 7 A. No, that's not what I said. You asked me 8 specifically about a particular application and I 9 assume you were using that as an example but my point 10 is that on an individual application, it's very 11 difficult to tell who the manufacturer might be, 12 depends, to a large extent, on the construction o f 13 the product. 14 There were times when there were --was 15 identification stamped into a part with a steel stamp 16 that would have identified the product. Color o f 17 product might be an identification in some instances; 18 but that would be different, depending on the 19 particular application o f the product itself. 20 Q. Okay. Do you know whether or not Victor 21 maintained more than 50 percent o f the market share 22 o f the gasket materials and engines in any of the Big 23 3 manufacturers through the first decade of your 24 employment? 25 A. No, I really don't know. Page 44 1 or just on the surface? 2 A. It was the color o f the facing materials. 3 Q. Do you know if you cut through that 4 material, whether or not that same color would show 5 all the way through the facing or just on the front 6 and back? 7 A. It would show all the w ay through the 8 facing. 9 Q. Did the gaskets com e in certain degrees o f 10 gauge? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And what were the gauge depths o f the 13 Victocor gaskets? 14 A. My recollection is that the thinnest 15 material that w e produced was an 0 --w ell, in the 16 Victocor and Corbestos lines, my recollection is that 17 the thinnest goes -- was an 0.30/0.35 material; and I 18 believe we produced something as high as 0.75/0.80. 19 Q. What was the typical one used in the 20 automotive industry during the first decade o f your 21 employment? 22 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 23 A. Are you talking about gauging it? 24 Q. (BY MR. COON) Y es, sir. 25 A. Automotive engines, a very popular gauge Page 43 1 Q. Do you know whether or not there was a 2 difference in the amount o f market share that Victor 3 held with the OE accounts versus the aftermarket 4 accounts in the first decade o f your employment? 5 A. N o, I really don't. 6 Q. Were there any other distinguishing 7 characteristics between your product lines from the 8 competitors, for purposes o f identification? 9 A. There were some different design criteria 10 from the different suppliers in some instances; and 11 in som e cases, some o f the competitors had a --used 12 a branded material. 13 Q. And what do we mean by "branded material"? 14 A. W ould have had some sort o f a logo or 15 product or brand name on the material itself that 16 might be distinguishable after application. 17 Q. What distinguished product lines that Victor 18 made during that decade --the Corbestos, Victocor, 19 Victoprene, and Victopac? 20 A. The Victocor 150 and the Victocor 200 21 materials would primarily have been by color. 22 Q. And what colors would those have been? 23 A. They would have normally been red or a shade 24 o f red. 25 Q. And w as that the color through and through Page 45 1 would have been 0.042/0.047 in Victocor 200, and 060 2 and 065 in Corbestos materials. 3 Q. And what were the distinguishing 4 characteristics o f the Corbestos product lines? 5 A. Normally they had a black coating on them. 6 Q. Was this something done at the factory? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And what was the purpose o f putting the 9 black coating on the gasket? 10 A. It aided in the release o f the gasket from 11 mating surfaces in instances where you were going to 12 take the flanged area apart for some reason or take 13 the head off the block. 14 Q. Okay. That brought up the next question: 15 What are the particular uses o f the Corbestos versus 16 the Victocor 150 from the manufacturer's standpoint 17 in the engine assembly? 18 A. I think - - 1 guess I would term it to be 19 more an evolution. I believe the Corbestos material 20 were the earliest materials that were developed. The 21 Victocor 150 and the Victocor 200 materials were 22 later engineering changes. 23 Q. Anything in particular about those products 24 that distinguished them from the Corbestos to make 25 them more suitable for engine assembly? Nell McCallum & Associates 12 (Pages 42 to 45) Page 46 1 A. Not that I'm aware of. 2 Q. And what about the Victaprene? 3 A. Victaprene was a material that was used for 4 other applications. It was primarily used for, like, 5 on valve cover gaskets or something like that. Now, 6 the material, Victaprene, did not contain asbestos. 7 Q. And where was it used other than on the 8 valve covers? 9 A. My only knowledge of the applications were a 10 valve cover. 11 Q. Okay. What about the Victopac? 12 A. In Chicago we used the Victopac as a facing 13 material on a perforated core, and it was used 14 primarily in diesel engine applications. 15 Q. Would it be fair to say the vast majority o f 16 the product lines that were used for the Big 3 17 automotive would have been the Corbestos and Victor 18 150 and 200? 19 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 20 A. If --you're talking about the first decade 21 still? 22 Q. (BY MR. COON) Yes, sir. 23 A. Y es, that would probably be true. 24 Q. Let's go into the second decade, late 25 Seventies to Eighties. What were the changes with Page 48 1 Q. (BY MR. COON) I think I asked you at the 2 last deposition what you knew about asbestos 3 millboard. Was that a product line that was used in 4 the automotive industry? 5 A. The term I'm using for asbestos millboard is 6 a starched asbestos sheet. It was utilized as a , 7 filler material and layer type product. It was a j 8 material that was normally sandwiched between ; 9 metallic layers, perhaps, tin plate, could have been ; 10 copper. ; 11 Q. And were there particular industries that 12 this product was sold to? 13 A. It was really the --in the chronological 14 evolution o f gaskets, I guess, I would say that it 15 was the older versions o f the gaskets. That type o f : 16 gasket technology went back into the very early ) 17 developments o f autom otive gaskets. 1 18 Q. Do you know whether or not Dana or Victor .< 19 ever sold that product line directly to the market ' 20 without it being sandwiched, as you described, as j 21 part o f the finished product at your facility? j ,2,2 A. I have no recollection o f any sale o f any S 23 gasket made from a millboard material without it j 24 being secured to a core o f som e sort or sandwiched, s 25 (EXHIBIT NO. 29 WAS MARKED) Page 47 1 respect to the industry and the use of these various 2 types o f gaskets? 3 A. Well, there was movement away from any 4 asbestos content in the facing materials; and the 5 Victocor names changed from Victocor 150 to Victocor 6 159 and Victocor 200 to Victocor 209, basically, 7 designating that it was a reformulated nonasbestos 8 facing. 9 And in the late Eighties, introduction of 10 graphite began to take place; and I would guestimate 11 that might have been in the - as early as possibly 12 1984, '85 and began to see some experimentation with 13 graphite facings. 14 Q. Mr. Austin, what was precipitating the 15 movement within the industry to shift away from the 16 use o f asbestos as a component of the gasket 17 materials manufactured by Victor at that time? 18 MS. BLAZEK; Object to form. 19 A. There was a, you know, growing concern about 20 the supply o f asbestos. There was obviously some 21 talk about possible asbestos hazards. The industry, 22 in general, was looking for newer materials, better 23 conformability. That's from, you know, a very 24 generalized probably 20,000-foot view o f where the 25 marketplace was going. Page 49 ; 1 Q. Let me show you what we've got marked as J 2 Austin Exhibit 29. This is VMG-32 dash 1448 through ' 3 1451. 4 THE WITNESS: Do you want this back, : 5 Mr. Coon? 6 MR. COON: Yes. sir, thank you. 7 A. (Reviewing document) Okay. 8 Q. (BY MR. COON) Yes, sir. The third page of 9 those documents, sir, I think was a March, 1946, 10 letter. Can you tell us who that was from and to? 11 A. It was to a --to Vince Labrecque and was . 12 signed by R. M. Bums. 13 Q. And do you know who Mr. Bums was? 14 A. I'm not exactly sure what his title was, but : 15 Mr. Bums was either the general manager or president 16 o f Victor Gasket. 17 Q. Do you know what years? 18 A. No, I really don't. I know that he --it 19 was a name that was very familiar to people when I 20 started there in '68. So, obviously in 1964, he was 21 there; and my recollection o f Mr. Bums was that he 22 moved on about the time Dana acquired Victor 23 Manufacturing and Gasket. 24 Q. That would have been about 1967? 25 A. Would have been, yeah, 1967. Kell McCallum & Associates 13 (Pages 46 to 49) Page 50 1 Q. Okay. Now, Mr. Labrecque, one o f the 2 recipients o f that document, was the same gentleman 3 that received a copy o f the earlier letter we talked 4 about from the insurance company regarding the dust 5 counts in one o f the areas o f the plant there; 6 correct? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. Is that the same gentleman? 9 A. Same gentleman. 10 Q. And I think that correspondence indicated 11 some desire and consideration to selling the asbestos 12 millboard; is that correct? 13 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 14 Have you seen this document before? 15 THE WITNESS: N o, I've never seen the 16 document. 17 A. I was going say: A ll I can say is that I 18 can read what it says here, but I'm not familiar with 19 the document as such. 20 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. That's fine. If you 21 can, just tell us -- either summarize what it says or 22 read it if if s not very long. " 23 MS. BLAZEK: Can w e have a running 24 objection -- 25 MR. COON: Sure. Page 52 1 familiar with a number o f these letters, particularly 2 those preceding his employment. 3 But by the same token, what I'm trying 4 to do, since he's the person would best know to be , 5 available to discuss some o f the historical : 6 information about Dana, at this point, from our side, 7 we just want to ask him questions about what he knew 8 and shed some light on some things. i 9 Q. (BY MR. COON) So, Mr. Austin, I don't know a - 10 lot about your asbestos millboard there, sir; and 11 there's a letter dated 1964 to the same gentleman 12 that had received prior information regarding the 13 dust counts at the facility that appeared to express f 14 some desire to actually sell that, what was called, j 15 an asbestos millboard. Is that a fair statement o f , 16 what it indicates there? . 17 A. Well, let me read it to you. ! 18 It says, "We are considering the possibility } 19 o f selling asbestos millboard as a separate product. 1 20 We are forwarding herewith, sample o f | 21 millboard used by Smith & Kanzler Corporation, which I 22 is one possible customer. Victor in the past has 1 23 made regular millboard. Do we have the necessary jj 24 technical information? | 25 Will you please advise the formula that | Page 51 1 MS. BLAZEK: --to any documents that 2 he hasn't seen before? 3 MR. COON: That's fne. I thought we 4 still had an agreement from the last deposition that 5 we're not contesting the documents that are y'all's 6 through production through the repository. 7 MS. BLAZEK: That's what I'm talking 8 about, just foundational questioning a witness about 9 a document that they've never seen before and knows 10 nothing about, I just don't know about the questions. 11 MR. SPEZIALI: (Inaudible) 12 MS. BLAZEK: I think that what Brent's 13 referring to is the agreement that w e have that we 14 wouldn't contest authenticity o f the documents, but 15 this is -- 16 MR. COON: Y es, authenticity only. 17 MS. BLAZEK; Right. But this is an 18 objection concerning whether this is the appropriate 19 witness to be questioned about a document. 20 MR. COON: That's fine. 21 MS. BLAZEK: And that is mutual, as I 22 understand it. 23 MR. COON: Yeah, that's fine. I 24 understand that Mr. Austin is not familiar with the 25 letter; and we anticipate he's not going to be Page 53 j 1 would mostly likely be used in order that we may J 2 secure some manufacturing costs for evaluation." 1 3 Signed, R. M. Bums. j 4 Q. Okay. N ow, in follow-up, do you know ; 5 anything about any subsequent sales by Victor, or 6 later Dana after the acquisition, of the asbestos 7 millboard to anyone either for rebranding purposes or 8 direct sales or their own stock, anything? - 9 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 10 A. I guess --sale o f millboard, no, I know j 11 nothing about. What was the last part of your 12 question? 13 Q. Okay. Well, as I understood it, the ' 14 asbestos millboard was used at Victor -- ' 15 A. Right. : 16 Q. --as part o f a gasket where it was ^ 17 sandwiched between some other components. I think 18 you told us about that; correct? 19 A. Right. ; 20 Q. Did you ever become aware of the sale by j 21 Victor or Dana o f that asbestos millboard core j 22 without it being sandwiched between these other parts j 23 that were manufactured there at the Dana facility? i 24 MS. BLAZEK: Asked and answered. j 25 A. I don't know o f any sale of millboard to j ! Nell McCallum & Associates 14 (Pages 50 to 53) Page 54 1 anyone. 2 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. Do you know where the 3 millboard was that was at the Victor facility? Was 4 that something manufactured there on site, or was it 5 provided by the venders? 6 A. No, it was provided by venders. 7 Q. Did Victor or Dana ever make the millboard 8 themselves? 9 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. What time 10 frame? 11 Q. (BY MR. COON) Well, first, before your 12 employment, are you aware o f Victor ever making the 13 asbestos millboard? 14 A. I know that there was discussions that they 15 had made asbestos at one time. I have no personal 16 knowledge o f what that period o f time was or 17 anything, really, about that. I know that from the 18 time I was employed, there was no asbestos 19 manufacturer in the facility. 20 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. The asbestos they used 21 was already being provided by other venders to then 22 make the gaskets? 23 A. That's correct. 24 Q. But you have an understanding that at some 25 point in time before your employment that Victor had Page 5(, 1 A. 1 don't really know who would be 2 knowledgeable of that who would still be living. 3 Q. Do you know whether or not there would have 4 been any information archived with respect to those 5 parts in the manufacturing facility? 6 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. , 7 A. I have no idea, you know, w'hat all was : S archived. There were a lot of archived files. 9 Q. (BY MR. COON) What did this millboard look ; 10 like? 11 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. When? 12 Q. (BY MR. COON) Did the millboard change, or ; 13 did it always look the same? 1 14 A. Asbestos millboard, as 1 knew it. was always ; 15 a white starched material. , 16 Q. How did it come supplied to Victor? j 17 A. In sheets. { 18 Q. Who from? > 19 A. I really don't recall. h 20 Q. The memo here indicated that there was i 21 sample millboard used by Smith & Kanzler. Are you S 22 familiar with that company? j 23 A. I know of the name. j 24 Q. How so? 5 25 A. It's come up on some o f the interrogatories I Page 55 1 been involved in some of the actual manufacturing of 2 the gasket material or something else? 3 A. No, the gasket material, as far as I know. 4 Q. Okay. Do you know where --which facility 5 was engaged in the manufacturing o f the asbestos 6 gasket material? 7 A. I believe it was at the Chicago facility. 8 Q. Do you have any idea what the time frames 9 were involved in that? 10 A. No, I really don't. 11 Q. Do you know which product lines those gasket 12 materials went into? 13 A. I - no, I don't know. I would assume that 14 it was the material that we later used for the layer 15 type product. 16 Q. Do you know why it was that Victor went from 17 manufacturing the gasket materials on site to then go 18 to outside venders for the supply of those materials? 19 A. No, I do not. 20 Q. Do we have any idea what the time frames are 21 that were at issue that they did manufacture on site? 22 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 23 A. No, I do not. 24 Q. (BY MR. COON) Who would be a good person for 25 us to go to now to find out more about that? Page 57 ! 1 that I've answered. - 2 Q. Okay. Have you assisted Dana in answering 3 interrogatories in litigation matters? * 4 A. I have reviewed answers to interrogatories, ; 5 yes. 6 Q. Anything about that that jogs your memory 7 about what Smith & Kanzler's role was with Dana, if r 8 any? 9 A. My recollection was that it had been 10 acquired by Dana as part o f the purchase o f Victor 11 Manufacturing and Gasket, that they had owned some 12 stock in Smith & Kanzler. : 13 Q. What does Smith & Kanzler do, if you know',' 14 A. I --no, I really don't know what they did. ) 15 Q. Do you know where they were located? ; 16 A. They were out East someplace, as I recall. 17 Q. On the East Coast? : 18 A. I - I really don't recall. i 19 Q. Any idea what they were involved in, what 20 business line they were in? 21 A. It seemed to me that they used - they were 22 involved in some o f the filler materials used in : 23 gaskets. 24 Q. Would that be, like, GAF, one of the other ' 25 venders you had given us the name of earlier? Nell McCallum & Associates 15 (Pages 54 to 57) Page 58 1 A. Similar, I would say, in nature. 2 Q. Do you know any other products they may have 3 manufactured? 4 A. I recall that in one of the interrogatories 5 I reviewed was that they had been in some sort o f a 6 construction insulation material o f some sort. 7 Q. And do you know what type o f construction 8 insulation materials they manufactured? 9 A. No, I don't. 10 Q. Would that have been asbestos-containing 11 materials? 12 A. I don't know. 13 Q. Do you know if they were pipe coverings or 14 refractoring materials or wallboard or anything idea? 15 A. No, I have no idea. 16 Q. Do you know how it was that Dana acquired 17 that entity? 18 MS. BLAZEK: Object, asked and 19 answered. 20 THE WITNESS: So, do I answer it? 21 MR. COON: Maybe Ijust didn't 22 understand the answer. 23 MS. BLAZEK: He said - 24 A. I -- I believe that Dana came by S & K, or 25 Smith & Kanzler, as part o f the purchase o f Victor Page 59 1 Manufacturing and Gasket Company, that they owned 2 some shares o f Smith & Kanzler. 3 Q. (BY MR. COON) So, your understanding was 4 that it just came with the package when they bought 5 Victor? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And do you know when, where, or why it was 8 that they sold the Smith & Kanzler entity? 9 A. I know it was sold about 18 months after 10 Dana acquired Victor Manufacturing. I don't know why 11 it was sold. 12 Q. And do you know who it was sold to? 13 A. I remember that it was stated in one o f the 14 interrogatories, but I don't recall the name offhand. 15 It was an Ohio based firm, as I recall. 16 Q. Would that have been Phillip Carey? 17 A. 1believe that's correct. 18 Q. Did Victor ever engage in any, what I call, 19 debraining agreements with other manufacturers 20 where --two different prongs: one, where another 21 company may have manufactured a product and sent it 22 to Victor or went through some other company to 23 rebrand or relogo or relabel that product under a 24 Victor name? 25 A. I have no knowledge o f that. Page 60 . 1 Q. Okay. Do you know whether or not Victor 2 ever engaged in a practice o f doing so for other 3 companies, where Victor rebranded some o f their 4 products under some other company's name as opposed 5 to the Victor names that you've told us about? ( 6 A. Are we speaking o f product that we did 7 not --that we didn't manufacturer? ' 8 Q. No, sir. Something that maybe Victor j 9 manufactured but did not put a Victor name on, i 10 instead put some other company's name on to allow { 11 that company to sell it as its own? | 12 A. We routinely would stamp trademarks o f Big 3 i 13 into products we produced for them. j 14 Q. And who is Big 3? - 15 A. It would have been Ford Motor Company, 16 General Motors, and Chrysler. ' 17 Q. Okay. So, when we're talking about "the i 18 Big 3," you're talking about the Big 3 auto \ 19 manufacturers? 20 A. Uh-huh. j 21 Q. And, so, you actually made products at the | 22 Victor facility where you stamped "Ford" or 1 23 "Chrysler" or "GM" on it? j 24 A. That's correct. j 25 Q. Do you know whether or not Ford, Chrysler, j i Page 61 | 1 or GM had other companies also rebrand their product j 2 lines? j 3 A. I guess I'm having some trouble with the j 4 term "rebrand." We made original equipment -- j 5 gaskets for them and put their logos in the parts. | 6 Q. Would these have been the same asbestos j 7 filler gasket materials you told us about that were 1 8 comprised in the Victor and Corbestos product lines? j 9 A. Yes. : 10 Q. Do you know what the purpose would have been ' 11 o f rebranding those product lines that were * 12 manufactured at the Victor facilities with one o f the , 13 Big 3's logos? 14 A. What would have been the purpose? 1 15 Q. Yes, sir. i 16 A. They were being supplied to the 17 service/parts divisions o f the Big 3 for sale under j 18 their brand name. j 19 Q. So, if you were to go to a Ford dealership j 20 and get Ford gaskets, they would have been j 21 manufactured by Victor and just rebranded with a Ford j 22 name? j 23 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. j 24 A. Once again, I'm having some problem with j 25 your term o f "rebranding. " It would have been j Nell McCallum & Associates 16 (Pages 58 to 61) Page 62 1 branded with the Ford name, yes, as the original 2 equipment part. 3 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. 1low would you know that 4 that was a Victor made product if it's got Ford's 5 name on it? 6 A. In - in some instances we were allowed to 7 put some sort of identification in it or required to 8 put some sort o f an identification in it. In other 9 cases, that wasn't the case; and you couldn't be 10 certain. 11 Q Okay. When you sold to the OE's like this, 12 was it routine for you to provide their logos on the 13 product lines; or was that requested sometimes and 14 not on other times? 15 MS. BLAZER: Object to form 16 A. It was pretty much by customer. Certain 17 customers demanded that they have logos or their part 18 number stamped in. Others did not. 19 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. Well, let's talk about 20 the first decade of your employment. With Ford, if 21 you were to typically provide Ford with the gasket 22 materials for use in their engine assembly, first for 23 the engines that were put together, were those 24 typically a Ford logo gasket; or were those typically 25 your Victor gasket label? Page 64 1 fact, actually been made by Victor'.' 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. Do you know whether or not GM ever 4 manufactured their own gasket materials'.' 5 A. 1don't believe they ever did, no. 6 Q. Do you know whether or not Ford ever 7 manufactured its own gasket materials? : 8 A. 1really don't know, but 1don't believe so. 9 Q. Okay. With respect to any o f the customers 10 that you had in the OE accounts, did any of them, to 11 your knowledge, ever manufacture any of their own 12 gasket materials? 13 A. I don't believe so. 14 Q. Okay. With Ford, do you know if they 15 operated under the Motor Craft product lines? 16 MS. BLAZER: Object to form .' 17 A. I'm sorry? - 18 Q. (BY MR. COON) Motor Craft? 19 A. Motor Craft is familiar to me, and 1 believe ' 3355 20 it was a Ford - one o f the Ford identification | 21 lines, but I'm not certain o f that. ;i 22 Q. Okay. With respect to Chrysler, do you know 1 23 whether or not those products were labeled "Mopar" or ; 24 "Chrysler" or some o f both or what? > 25 A. 1 believe they were labeled as Mopar. | Page 63 1 A. It would typically have been a Ford logo 2 part. 3 Q. And same question with Chrysler, were those 4 typically logoed with Chrysler or Mopar or -- 5 A. Normally they would have been a Chrysler 6 Pentastar. 7 Q. And now, if you had a - some of these 8 companies had different product lines. Let's go back 9 with, say, Ford. You had the Ford, and 1 think you 10 probably had the Lincoln Mercury lines. 11 Would each of those product lines have been 12 labeled separately under the actual subsidiary? For 13 instance, I'm calling Lincoln a subsidiary o f Ford. 14 I don't know what the proper terminology is. But 15 would you relabel some of the gasket materials 16 "Lincoln" or would those all be labeled "Ford," if 17 you know? 18 A. I believe they would have all been labeled 19 "Ford." 20 Q. With respect to General Motors, would you 21 have different logoing with respect to Chevrolets 22 versus Cadillacs? 23 A. Normally General Motors used a GM insignia. 24 Q. So, if we looked at the advertising o f using 25 genuine GM parts, those genuine GM parts may have, in .3 Page 65 ! 1 Q. And w ould that include Plymouth and ; 2 Chrysler? ! 3 A. I don't recall having Plymouth as a i 4 customer. So, I'm not sure about that. j. 5 Q. Okay. And with GM, do you know if those ; 6 were logoed under the AC D elco trademark? 1 7 A. No, 1 don't b elieve they were. 8 Q. You believe it w as GM? : 9 A. Uh-huh. ! 10 Q. With respect to the aftermarket product 11 lines, in addition to the direct sales, so 1 can i 12 understand this, you had the direct sales that went 13 to the OE accounts so that they could assem ble the 14 engines so they w ould have a gasket that may be 15 labeled "Ford" in som e manner put into the Ford 16 engine? ; 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. And then it went to the local dealership for 19 sale; correct? i 20 A. Well, it w as assem bled into an automobile 21 normally; and then - 22 Q. Now, with respect to a customer, then, going 23 back to Ford for the parts to effect some engine j 24 repairs and they went back to the dealership, was j 25 there a manner in which Victor made the gasket ; Nell McCallum & Associates 17 (Pages 62 to 65) Page 66 1 materials and labeled them in that same manner for 2 the local dealership to then sell to the customer? 3 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 4 A. Victor never sold to a dealership. We would 5 sell through the service arms o f the automotive OE's, 6 and they would distribute in some fashion. They're 7 probably different, in each area, to the dealerships. 8 Q. (BY MR. COON) And I think we talked a little 9 bit about the bulk sales before; but if you're 10 shipping a hundred thousand gaskets o f some form for 11 part o f the engine assembly in a new vehicle, you did 12 not need to individually wrap each one o f those 13 gaskets? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. But if you were to buy a particular gasket 16 at the dealership for the replacement for one part on 17 an engine, you could buy them just individually; 18 correct? 19 A. That's correct. 20 Q. And many times they were individually 21 wrapped and packaged; correct? 22 A. That's correct. 23 Q. And, so, they would still have the same Ford 24 or Ford manufactured lo going on it as had been 25 stamped when it was shipped to the manufacturer to Page 68 1 Q. And, so, if you were to go to the dealership 2 for the replacement gasket, you would typically see 3 the dealership's logoing on the gasket because that's 4 the way the vehicle manufacturer wanted it, to create 5 the impression that it was something that was theirs 6 with their identifying trademarks on it? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. And if you went to the aftermarket to buy 9 that same gasket, you could go to a Hi-Lo or some 10 other auto parts place and instead of seeing the 11 manufacturer's - the vehicle manufacturer's logoing 12 on it, you would see the Victor product lines 13 logoing? 14 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 15 A. That may or may not be the case. 16 Q. (BY MR. COON) And why or why not? 17 A. Well, I'm really not the individual for you 18 to talk to on aftermarket distribution; but I know 19 that aftermarket is distributed in a number o f " 20 different fashions. I just can't honestly tell you 21 exactly how that all worked, though. ; 22 Q. Do you know if in the aftermarket whether or 1 23 not the same requests were made by some o f the . 24 venders --for instance, a Hi-Lo or Western Auto may ; 25 request Victor to manufacturer those gaskets with ' Page 67 1 put in the engine at the time o f original assembly? 2 A. That's correct. 3 Q. But you would not sell those directly to the 4 dealership. Instead, they would go to a hub o f the 5 vehicle manufacturer, like Ford; and then they would 6 distribute them to the various dealerships? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. How did that differ, if at all, from the 9 aftermarket accounts that you told us a little 10 about -- a little bit about in your last deposition? 11 A. The accounts we talked about in my last 12 deposition dealt with the Dana aftermarket and Dana 13 has its own aftermarket that distributes to, well, 14 what we call Tier 2's, which is normally warehouses; 15 and then that product would be distributed to the 16 local auto parts stores or something along that line. 17 There could be a two-tier or a three-tier 18 distribution system, depending on a particular 19 organization. 20 Q. Would there be any difference in terms o f 21 the actual gasket material that was used in the sale 22 to the OE account versus aftermarket account? Was it 23 the same exact gasket? 24 A. It would depend on the individual 25 application. Normally it would be the same material. Page 69 j 1 their name on it, say, the Western Auto trademark or ` 2 the Hi-Lo trademark as opposed to Victor? 3 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 4 A. I believe that we did do some packaging 5 under name brands. 6 Q. (BY MR. COON) Where would be a good source 7 for us to go to get a better overall synopsis o f how 8 that worked in terms o f the packaging and logoing 9 vis-a-vis the different manufacturers you dealt with 10 as well as aftermarket vendors? 11 A. On the OE side, the general sales manager 12 would be the individual. On the aftermarket side, i 13 you'd have to go to someone in our aftermarket j 14 division. : 15 Q. Was that also in Chicago? * 16 A. No. | 17 Q. Where was that at? j 18 A. Well, automotive aftermarket, all o f the j 19 SBU's are located in Toledo. But the actual offices I 20 for aftermarket, probably the Clevite offices for the j 21 automotive aftermarket -- and they're in Ann Arbor, ] 22 Michigan -- would be a potential source for you. j 23 MS. BLAZEK: We've been going an hour j 24 and a half. Can we take a break? i 25 MR. COON: Oh, yeah. You want to take ] Nell McCallum & Associates 18 (Pages 66 to 69) Page 70 1 a break, sure. 2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off the record 3 at 3:03. 4 (A RECESS WAS TAKEN) 5 (EXHIBIT NO. 30 WAS MARKED) 6 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the 7 beginning o f Tape 2. We're back on the record at 8 3:20. 9 Q. (BY MR. COON) We've got Exhibit 30. It's a 10 letter dated April, '67, to E. Shenezis, 11 (pronouncing) Shenezis. 12 MR. COON: And, Counsel, to speed up, 13 what I'll do is I'm going to go ahead and start 14 proffering y'all the next documents so that we don't 15 have to wait to review it before I ask him questions. 16 That may help some. 17 Q. (BY MR. COON) Mr. Austin, the document 18 there - if I can call your attention to the 19 Asbestopac 232. It says the customer is Ford Motors. 20 Do you know Mr. Shenezis? 21 A. No, I don't. 22 Q. What is Department 95, sir? 23 A. I have no idea. 24 Q. Don't know that, either? 25 A. No. Page 72 1 finishing the document. 2 A. (Reviewing document) Okay. I'm sorry. 3 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. Yes, sir. First. 1was 4 trying to find out more about the Asbestopac 232. if 5 you know what it was or who manufactured it? 6 A. I really - no, I really don't. 7 Q. The Smith & Kanzler firm is mentioned on 8 there again, isn't it? 9 A. It does talk about Smith & Kanzler -- 10 Q. Any idea - 11 A. --in this. 12 Q. I'm sorry. Any idea why .' 13 A. No, I really don't. I've never seen this 14 type o f form before. 15 Q. Okay. Had you not heard o f the Asbestopacs 16 232 or Asbestopac, generally, before? 17 A. Oh, I've heard of 2 - Asbestopac 232. 18 Q. What was your understanding o f what that 19 was? 20 A. It was a paper material that was used in 21 facings. 22 Q. And did you know who made that? 23 A. No, 1don't. 24 Q. Do you know if it was manufactured by Victor 25 or Dana? Page 71 1 Q. It's stamped the Division o f Victor 2 Manufacturing Gasket Company, isn't it? 3 A. Materials Division Victor Manufacturing 4 Gasket Company, yeah, that's correct. 5 Q. And it indicates it's cc'd to the 6 Mr. Labrecque gentleman again? 7 A. Yes, Labrecque. 8 Q. What is this Asbestopac 232, and how docs 9 that relate to Ford Motors? 10 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 11 Have you seen the document before? 12 THE WITNESS: No, 1 haven't. 13 MS. BLAZEK: Again, if we could have a 14 running objection on foundation since he's never seen 15 the document. 16 A. (Reviewing document) Okay. 17 Q. (BY MR. COON) Do you know anything about the 18 Asbestopac 232 line? 19 A. No, I really don't. 20 Q. Do you -- 21 A. It was a facing grade of material, I 22 believe. That's all I really know about it. 23 Q. Was that one that was manufactured by one of 24 your competitors? 25 MS. BLAZEK: I think he's still Page 73 1 A. No, I don't. 2 Q. You don't know if that was one o f y'all's 3 product lines or if it was a competitor's product 4 line? ' 5 A. No, 1 don't. 6 Q. No idea why that memo references that 7 particular material? 8 A. No. As I say, I've never seen - I've never 9 seen the form before, and I don't know Mr. E. 10 Shenezis or Shenezis (pronouncing) or whatever it is. 11 Q. Did you know the materials developed --was 12 there a materials development laboratory at Victor? 13 MS. BLAZEK: In 1967? 14 Q. (BY MR. COON) Yeah, in April o f 1967? ; 15 A. I guess we called it --well, I knew there 16 was a materials development department. I guess 1 17 never thought o f it as a laboratory as such. 18 Q. Well, 1was just looking at the bottom. 19 There was a name signed o ff under there, "Larson." 20 A. Yeah. 21 Q. Okay. Did you know a Larson in that 22 department? 23 A. Yes, sir. 24 Q. So, this appears to be generated through 25 that department; is that correct? Nell McCallum & Associates 19 (Pages 70 to 73) Page 74 1 A. Yes, it does. 2 Q. Okay. This is Document VMG-32-1455 and on 3 the third page -- again, this is dated March 14, '67 4 VMG-32-1457 and it's another memo and these all came 5 together. So, I'mjust going to show you this one 6 next. Again, this one was cc'd to Mr. Labrecque as 7 well. It's from Mr. Feldmann to Mr. Hayden, 8 Interoffice Correspondence. Did you know either o f 9 those two gentleman? 10 A. C. I. Hayden was Carl Hayden. 11 Q. What was his title? 12 A. At this point in time, I really don't know. 13 He worked in the engineering group in 1967. I have 14 no idea what his capacity was in that career. 15 Q. Now, in that memo they're talking about an 16 Armstrong product line, Armstrong AN 830 (sic). Are 17 you familiar with it? 18 A. Y es,lam . 19 Q. What was that? 20 A. Well, it was a grade o f material produced by 21 Armstrong. 22 Q. Was that what was used for some o f your 23 gasket materials? 24 A. Yes, I believe it was. 25 Q. Do you know which product lines? Page 76 1 April 29, it says "1068." It was probably "1968"? 2 You guys weren't around a thousand years ago, were 3 you? 4 A. I don't think so. 5 Q. Okay. So, we'll assume that was a typo. 6 It talks again about the Smith & Kanzler 7 firm, a trip over there, doesn't it? 8 A. Yes, it does. 9 Q. Then it talks about the gasket division. 10 Mr. Sheehan? Is that who that is? 11 A. Mr. Sheehan. 12 Q. Sheehan. W ho is Mr. Sheehan? 13 A. Mr. Sheehan was Bill Sheehan, W illiam J. 14 Sheehan. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. In 1968 I believe he would have been plant 17 manager. 18 Q. Okay. And it talks about a document 19 attached. If we turn to the next page, which is 20 VPD-91 dash 92 and that seem s to be the document 21 they're referencing that's dated April 19, 1968, and 22 it talks about som e dust problems. 23 Are you familiar with any o f the dust 24 problems at the plant that they may have been 25 referencing there at that time? Page 75 1 A. It was a soft gasket material; and, no, I'm 2 not really familiar with exactly what it was used 3 for. 4 Q. Okay. And what was it used for? 5 A. I don't know exactly. It was a soft gasket 6 material, but I have no idea exactly what it was used 7 for or the types o f applications. 8 (EXHIBIT NO. 31 WAS MARKED) 9 Q. Okay. Mr. Austin, we next have Exhibit 31; 10 and that had a file cover o f a "D. Reda." 11 A. Reda (pronouncing). 12 Q. Reda? 13 A. Yes, sir. 14 Q. I think you mentioned him at the last 15 deposition. 16 A. Right. 17 Q. And what was his title over the years? 18 A. He was plant -- well, he was the plant 19 manager for a number o f years. I believe he had been 20 in the accounting group prior to Dana's acquisition. 21 Q. Okay. Now, there were a number o f things in 22 this file folder and we've taken excerpts from that 23 but the cover o f the file was VPD-91 dash 90. And if 24 we turn to the inside document, one o f those that was 25 in the file, this one is VPD-91 dash 91. It's dated Page 77 1 MS. BLAZEK: I'm sorry? Which plant? 2 Smith & Kanzler? 3 A. Yeah, it appears as though they're talking 4 about Smith & Kanzler. 5 Q. (BY MR. COON) Right. Do you know why they 6 would be discussing problems with dust at the Smith & 7 Kanzler facility? 8 A. No, I really don't. I have no idea. 9 Q. Okay. Do you know what ownership role Dana 10 had after the acquisition o f Victor as it related to 11 Smith & Kanzler? 12 A. No, I really don't. 13 Q. Do you know if they had any shared members 14 o f the board o f Smith & Kanzler? 15 A. I have no idea. 16 Q. Do you have any idea who owned, operated, or 17 controlled Smith & Kanzler after it was acquired by 18 Dana in '67 as a result o f the acquisition o f Victor? 19 A. No, I don't. 20 Q. Did you have any role in assisting Dana at 21 any point in time during your tenure while Smith & 22 Kanzler was still in some way --let me strike that. 23 Did you have any involvem ent with the 24 Smith & Kanzler facility at all --going there, 25 inspecting it, meeting with any o f the people, or Nell McCallum & Associates 20 (Pages 74 to 77) Page 78 1 anything like that? 2 A. No, sir, 1 did not. 3 Q. Do you know anything about the dust problems 4 that they were talking about in the 1968 memo? 5 A. I haven't read the memo yet. So, if you'd 6 like me to take a minute to read it... 7 (Reviewing document) To be honest with you, 8 I'm not sure what some o f this says. It's a rather 9 poor copy. 10 Q. Well, of what you can read there, is there 11 any anything that assists you in determining what 12 that may have been about? 13 A. The only thing that 1 can seem to take from 14 this is that they're requesting Mr. McGranahan's 15 assistance at the Smith & Kanzler plant. Other than 16 that, no, there's nothing I can make out from this, 17 really. 18 Q. Okay. Any idea why Dana would have been 19 involved in assisting them with dust problems at that 20 facility as a --just somebody that had stock in that 21 company? 22 A. No, 1have no idea. 23 MS. BLAZEK: (Reading) "Smith & 24 Kanzler's going to pay for his expenses." 25 THE WITNESS: Yeah, "1 would anticipate Page 80 1 anything? 2 A. No, I don't. 3 (EXHIBIT NO. 32 WAS MARKED) 4 Q. Mr. Austin, next we have Exhibit No. 32; and 5 that, sir, is "Minutes o f Victor Gasket Division, 6 Plant Safety Committee," May 10, 1972; correct'.' 7 A. That's what it says here. 8 Q. And lists the number o f people that were ; 9 present at that meeting? 10 A. Yes, sir. 11 Q. And the agenda? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And one o f the things they were discussing 14 at that meeting were dealing with asbestos issues, 1 15 believe. 16 MS. BLAZEK: Have you seen the document ( 17 before? 3 18 THE WITNESS: No, 1haven't. ; 19 MS. BLAZEK: If he could have a moment ; 20 to review it. } 21 MR. COON: Oh, sure. .: 22 MS. BLAZEK: Again, wc would object on ) 23 foundational grounds since he hasn't seen the 3 24 document before. j 25 A. (Reviewing document) Okay. f !; Page 79 1 a week o f Mr. McGranahan's time would be required and 2 assume that S & K will pay out-of-pocket expenses for 3 Mr. McGranahan only. Because of the potential health 4 hazard created by the dust, the" - 1can't make out 5 that word -- "we can secure Mr. McGranahan's services 6 the better." 7 I assume that must be "sooner." 8 Q. And who is Mr. McGranahan? 9 A. It was Bob McGranahan. He was - I'm not 10 exactly sure what his title was; but he was. 11 basically, facilities -- he was in charge of 12 facilities. He may have been considered a 13 vice-president or something like that of the 14 facilities. 15 Q. At Dana? 16 A. No, in the Victor Manufacturing group. 17 Q. Okay. And then who is Mr. J. A. Johnson? 18 A. 1believe it was Andy Johnson and he would 19 have been, like, a general manager level, but I'm not 20 exactly sure what his title was. 21 Q. Do you know anything about what specific 22 dust problems they were having there, creating the 23 h e a lth h a z a r d ? 24 A. No, 1don't. 25 Q. Do you know what was done to resolve it, if Page 81 | 1 Q. (BY MR. COON) Now, first, those present, i 2 without going through the names o f all o f them 1 3 individually, were those all management individuals ; 4 o f Victor in 1972? ' 5 MS. BLAZEK: Object to fonn. 6 A. The only name 1don't recognize on here is 7 an E. Velde, afterwards there's a parenthesis that ; 8 says "George Brown." ; 9 Q. (BY MR. COON) Are you familiar with the j 10 plant safety committee? 1 11 A. Yes, 1am. j 12 Q. Were you ever a member of the plant safety ; 13 committee? j 14 A. Yes, I was. j 15 Q. Were you a member in 1972? < 16 A. No, I was not. 1 17 Q. What years were you a member? : 18 A. Probably would have become a member in 1980. : 19 Q. Were those present at that time --any idea \ 20 whether or not the nine individuals mentioned there ) 21 were all members o f the committee at the time? ! 22 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. * 23 A. I have no way o f being certain. They are j 24 all --they were all in management/leadership roles ; 25 in the plant or division at the time. j Nell McCallum & Associates 1 21 (Pages 78 to 81) Page 82 1 Q. (BY MR. COON) Was it typical in the years 2 that you were involved in the plant safety committee 3 to retain minutes o f those meetings? 4 A. I would think that that was kind o f 5 helter-skelter. I would say that at times there were 6 minutes taken, and other times there may not have 7 been. 8 Q. And it appears from the agenda, one o f the 9 six agenda items was the --No. 2, "Status o f 10 asbestos air pollution control." Am I reading that 11 correct? 12 A. Yes, you are. 13 Q. Any idea what they were referencing with 14 respect to the minutes as it related to the asbestos 15 air pollution control issues that they were dealing 16 with? 17 A. No, 1 have no way o f knowing. 18 Q. Would those have been asbestos control 19 problems at any o f their own facilities? 20 A. Once again, I have no idea. 21 Q. Did the plant safety committee ever get 22 involved or concerned in the asbestos control issues 23 o f other plants other than their own? 24 A. 1 don't know whether they did or they 25 didn't. Page 84 1 believe, there at the bottom of the page. 2 A. Right. ; 3 Q. Do you know if, based on that date being May 4 o f 1972, if some o f that was based on the OSHA 5 standards that were going into effect at that time? 6 A. I have no way o f knowing for sure that that } 7 was the case. ? 8 Q. Do you know when the OSHA standards were | 9 going into effect? J 10 A. I don't know what the date o f the OSHA 11 standards were. I know that they were early 1970's. | 12 Q. Were you involved in any way at Victor with | 13 respect to how to address those issues in the early 1 14 Seventies? j 15 A. N o, 1was not. 3 16 Q. Okay. One o f the things talked about here j 17 in the review o f discussion was, "Vacuum cleaners jj 18 have been received." j 19 What are they talking about there? j 20 A. I recall that w e used vacuum cleaners to j 21 take up dust from shearing operations and things like j 22 that - j 23 Q. Okay. f 24 A. -- housekeeping and minimize the airborne j j 25 dust. j | Page 83 I Q. Okay. Well, I'm not trying to ask trick 2 questions, Mr. Austin. I think --I mean: Is it 3 fair to presume that when they're talking about 4 asbestos control issues at a plant safety committee 5 meeting, that they're talking about asbestos control 6 issues at their own facilities as opposed to somebody 7 else's facilities? 8 A. In looking at this, som e o f these people 9 were, what I would have considered, division people 10 at the time. So, that brings some hesitation that it 11 might just have been the Chicago plant, that it might 12 have been broader than that. I don't know that for a 13 fact nor do I know that that's not the case. 14 Q. Okay. But this w ould not have been asbestos 15 problems o f GAF or som eone else? 16 A. Oh, no. 17 Q. That would be -- maybe I didn't make m yself 18 clear. These are issues they're addressing that are 19 internal issuing -20 A. Yes, sir. 21 Q. - - o f Victor; correct? 22 A. I believe that would be correct. 23 Q. And it's discussed -- under the "Review o f 24 Discussion" what was discussed at the meeting as it 25 related to asbestos and air pollution control, I Page 85 j I Q. They talked about "for use in the handling 2 o f asbestos-containing material and removing o f the 3 asbestos dust from clothing and equipment." 4 Did you recall in the early Seventies any 5 point where the Victor Gasket Division started 6 vacuuming off the clothes o f their employees? 7 A. No, I can't say I really do. 8 Q. Do you recall the actual purchase or the use 9 o f vacuum cleaners in that capacity? 10 A. I remember some small vacuum cleaners at the II shear and some of the sorting benches, but I don't j 12 know what they were used for. I don't recall exactly 13 what they were used for. - 14 Q. Did you ever see any o f the employees being ' 15 vacuumed off, having their clothes vacuumed o ff to 16 remove asbestos dust? 17 A. No, I can't say I do. , 18 Q. Second area here under that topic was, j 19 "Environmental test center will prepare an updated i 20 report indicating areas tested and findings resulting i 21 from tests." j 22 Do you know o f any additional testing that j 23 was done in 1972 as it related to asbestos control ! 24 issues at any o f the Victor facilities? j 25 A. It seems to me that in 1972 there was an j \ Nell McCallum & Associates 22 (Pages 82 to 85) Page 86 ! environmental test center associated inside the 2 plant, and the testing that was done --the only 3 testing 1recall for asbestos was to be certain that 4 we were in compliance with the OSHA guidelines. 5 That's the only recollection 1 have o f testing being 6 done. 7 Q. Was that a desire by Victor to maintain 8 compliance with OSHA, to be able to continue to 9 manufacture their asbestos-containing materials? 10 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 11 A. I guess I'd say the answer to that is yes. 12 You know, we were always concerned with safety and 13 housekeeping and running a good plant; and obviously 14 complying to OSHA standards is certainly a part of 15 that. 16 Q. (BY MR. COON) Do you know whether or not at 17 the time the asbestos standards came out with OSHA in 18 1972 Victor had initiated any testing o f their 19 products to determine --to internally determine 20 whether or not asbestos posed a health risk? 21 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 22 A. No, I have no idea. 23 Q. (BY MR. COON) The next discussion here was, 24 "A hood and dust collector will be installed at 25 asbestos" --I think that's supposed to say - Page 87 1 "slitter by June, 1972." 2 Was that what you described earlier, the 3 slitter that cut the sheets? 4 A. The slitter or shear, right. 5 Q. That's the same thing when we talk about a 6 shear? 7 A. Norm ally when we use the term "slitter," we 8 were talking about a rotary slitter. I spoke o f a 9 square shear earlier. 10 Q. Okay. D o you know what that type o f 11 equipment is that they're discussing there? 12 A. I know what an asbestos slitter is, yes. 13 Q. N o, sir, the equipment they were talking 14 about? 15 A. Oh, I'm sorry, the hood and dust collector? 16 Q. Yes, sir. Are you familiar with those? 17 A. 1 recall a hood and exhaust system that was 18 installed over the slitter, yeah. 19 Q. Do you recall it being installed in the 20 early Seventies or at som e other point in time? 21 A. It w ould have been the early Seventies 22 sometime. I have no idea whether it's at this point 23 in time or not. 24 Q. Was that to replace one that had wom out, 25 or was that the first time they had used one? Page 88 1 A. I, frankly, don't recall that. 2 Q. Do you have any recollection o f the facility 3 having that type o f equipment prior to 1972? 4 A. No, I can't say I do. 5 Q. Okay. In fact, part o f the purpose o f the 6 installation o f that particular equipment was to try s 7 to reduce the amount o f asbestos, airborne asbestos ; 8 fibers in that area, wasn't it? ; 9 A. I can't answer that. ; 10 Q. Fair enough. i 1 1 (EXHIBIT NO. 33 WAS M ARKED) ' 12 Mr. Austin, we next have Exhibit 33 and that j 13 appears to be a handwritten sheet o f a "1973 Capital 14 Budget by Victor Division." Did I read that : 15 correctly? 16 A. Robinson plant. 17 Q. Robinson plant, yes, sir. j 18 A. Correct. f 19 Q. And it talks about various things in the 20 line item budgetary costs. | 21 A. I've never seen this, but 1would assume 22 that that's correct. f 23 MS. BLAZEK: Running objection on j 24 foundational grounds. I 25 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. We have the --the f j 1 Page 89 j 1 first paragraphs, it talks about the "Gasket | 2 operations" and I guess we follow out, underneath, it j 3 says "Update o f presses, OSHA" and then a number to j 4 the side? 1 5 A. Right. 6 Q. Then "Vacuum dust collection, OSHA" and : 7 additional numbers, and there's a line item o f | 8 various types o f things along with an estimate o f ? 9 cost; is that correct? : 10 A. That appears to be correct. ; 11 Q. Okay. Do you know what would have i 12 precipitated incorporating those particular items in > 13 the budget for 1973 at that facility? | 14 A. No, don't. I 15 Q. Do you know whether or not those were to try j 16 to affect compliance with OSHA at those facilities? 1 17 A. No, I don't. 18 Q. Did you participate in any way with any of 19 the other management folks at Victor to determine 20 which of these items were necessary and whether they 21 should be installed? 22 A. No, that list is from the Robinson facility. 23 1had nothing to do with that at all. 24 Q. Do you know whether or not there were 25 capital budgets similar in nature for your facility Nell McCallum & Associates 23 (Pages 86 to 89) Page 90 1 for 1973 for OSHA issues? 2 A. I know that we prepare a capital budget each 3 year. What specifically would have been in the 1973 4 budget, I have no way o f knowing. 5 (EXHIBIT NO. 34 WAS MARKED) 6 Q. Mr. Austin, we next have Document No. 34; 7 and that one's marked VPD dash 146 dash 2 9 5 6 ,1 8 believe, dated May 6th, 1975? 9 A. That's correct. 10 Q. And who is that to and from? 11 A. It's addressed to a Mr. Hickey. 12 Q. Who is Mr. Hickey? 13 A. I have no idea. 14 Q. And from? 15 A. I'm sorry? 16 Q. And from? 17 A. It was from Vince Labrecque. 18 Q. And that's the same Labrecque we talked 19 about earlier? 20 A. That's correct. 21 Q. And what was his title at that time? 22 A. This says that he was the acting division 23 chief engineer. 24 Q. If I can see that j ust real briefly, sir. 25 A. (Tendering) Page 91 1 MS. BLAZEK: While he's reviewing that, 2 had you seen that document before today? 3 THE WITNESS: No. 4 MS. BLAZEK: We'd have a running 5 objection on foundational grounds for any questions 6 o f this witness. 7 Q. (BY MR. COON) The letter goes on to point 8 out some o f the fiber burden counts for asbestos in 9 your facilities, I believe, doesn't it? 10 A. (Reviewing document) Okay. I'm sorry? What 11 was the question, Mr. Coon? 12 Q. Okay. Yes, sir. It talks about the 13 measurement o f asbestos in the air, asbestos dust? 14 A. I believe that that would be correct, yes. 15 Q. Okay. Do you know how those --how that 16 information was derived? Indicate anywhere how the 17 testing was done? 18 A. No, it doesn't specify on here anything 19 about the testing procedures. 20 Q. Do you know whether or not Victor ever set 21 up a program to internally evaluate the dust counts 22 in various areas in their facilities, or was that 23 always something that was done out -- by specialized 24 personnel outside o f Victor employment? 25 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. Page 92 1 A. The only internal testing that might have 2 been done was in relationship to one o f the previous 3 documents you showed me that talked about the 4 environmental department. 5 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. Where was the 6 environmental department at Victor? 7 A. I believe it was just an office in the 8 engineering area. 9 Q. Do you know if they had a certified 10 industrial hygienist -- 11 A. N o, I do not. 12 Q. --operating out o f there? Don't know one 13 way or the other? 14 A. No, I don't. 15 Q. It talked at the bottom o f the --this 16 particular letter about providing medical tests for 17 individuals exposed to asbestos at a facility. This 18 is 1975. Do you recall when it was, first, that at 19 your plant they initiated an annual medical screening i 20 for the individuals that worked around asbestos 1 21 there? i 22 A. It would have been sometime in the - 23 Seventies, but I really don't have a clear ' 24 recollection o f when it would have started. 25 Q. Do you know whether or not individuals in j ! i Page 93 j 1 certain parts o f the plant were screened and other \ 2 departments were not? Do you know how that worked? 1 3 A. No, I really don't have any recollection o f : 4 how that worked. ; 5 Q. In the years after that, did OSHA continue 6 to come out to your facility? ` 7 A. I really have no knowledge o f when OSHA was * 8 there or wasn't there. 9 Q. Do you know whether or not OSHA conducted 10 periodic inspections o f the facilities to determine 11 whether or not the plant was in violation o f some - 12 OSHA standards or regulations? : 13 A. I only recall personally one OSHA visit i 14 where I actually met an OSHA inspector. 15 Q. Do you know when that might have been? . 16 A. No, I'm sorry. 17 Q. Long time ago? 18 A. I have no recollection. 19 Q. Okay. Do you know if outside o f the visits 20 they had personally with you, do you know what degree 21 o f regularity they would visit your plant? 22 A. No, I really don't. 23 Q. Do you know if they came out once a year or 24 quarterly or any idea? j 25 A. No, I really don't. j 1 | Nell McCallum & Associates 24 (Pages 90 to 93) Page 94 1 Q. In the Seventies, was there a particular 2 individual that was the OSHA liaison at your plant 3 that would typically visit with you? 4 A. It would have been whoever was in -- 5 fulfilling the role o f safety director or the safety 6 manager. 7 Q. And who would that have been through the 8 Seventies? 9 A. Well, in the very early Seventies, it would 10 have been Bud Leider. 11 Q. And where is Mr. Leider now? 12 A. Mr. Leider has long since passed away. 13 Q. And after him? 14 A. After him, I believe it probably was handled 15 by different people in the HR group or the facilities 16 group. 17 (EXHIBIT NO. 35 WAS MARKED) 18 MR. COON: Counsel, do you have Exhibit 19 35 there? 20 MS. BLAZEK: (Tendering) 21 Q. (BY MR. COON) Mr. Austin, I'm next showing 22 you Exhibit 35. This is VPD-14 dash 14 9 , 1 believe. 23 A. Right. 24 Q. Handwritten in a -- is that to Mr. McNamara? 25 A. Yes, sir. Page 9(i 1 beneath what we would have anticipated in the 2 material. 3 Q. And this was the release o f asbestos fibers 4 out o f the gasket materials that Victor manufactured? 5 A. No, I don't believe that's the case. I 6 believe it was the captured asbestos fiber -- 7 Q. And what do you mean by that? 8 A. -- in the material. Well, facing materials, 9 in general, that had asbestos in them contained some 10 sort o f a binder system and it was supposed to be a 11 certain amount o f asbestos fiber in the facing itself 12 and it would appear to me as though the fiber content 13 was low. 14 Q. Okay. The --on the front there, he talks 15 about --says, "Confirming our conversation" --so. 16 obviously they did have a conversation -- "our pack 17 suppliers." 18 Who are the pack suppliers? 19 A. Pack suppliers would have been Armstrong, 20 GAF. 21 Q. Okay. It says, "They are reporting a j 22 worsening situation on asbestos fiber. In fact, the 23 Celotex Company cannot react to either additional ! 24 orders or replacement or rejection due, in part, to j 25 lack o f fiber." j Page 95 1 Q. And it's dated September 23rd, '76? '75? 2 Can you tell? 3 A. 1really can't tell. 4 Q. And who is that from? 5 A. Well, it's from Harold North. 6 Q. Have you seen that document before? 7 A. 1 can't say I really have, but Harold's 8 handwriting was unmistakable. 9 Q. You've seen some o f Harold's memos before? 10 A. Yes, many, many, many o f them. 11 Q. Okay. What's Harold discuss with 12 Mr. McNamara in that memo? 13 MS. BLAZEK: Since he hasn't seen the 14 report, I have an objection. 15 A. Yeah, give me a moment to read it, if you 16 would. 17 Q. (BY MR. COON) Oh, sure. 18 MS. BLAZEK: And we would object on 19 foundational grounds since he hasn't seen the 20 document before. 21 A. (Reviewing document) Are you just asking 22 about the first two pages? 23 Q. (BY MR. COON) Yes, sir. First, what is 24 Mr. North conveying to Mr. McNamara there? 25 A. That apparently the fiber content was ! Page 97 !3 3 1 What was their problem there'.' Do you know? 2 A. No, I don't. . 3 Q. Do you know if it was just acquisition o f ; 4 the fiber?' 5 A. 1have no idea. 6 Q. Do you know why that would have been a 7 problem? ^ 8 A. No, I don't. 9 MS. BLAZEK: Did you read the entire 10 document? 11 THE WITNESS: I only read the first two 12 pages. . 13 MS. BLAZEK: Okay. 14 THE WITNESS: That's why I asked : 15 specifically if we were discussing the first two : 16 pages. 17 MS. BLAZEK: Okay. 18 Q. (BY MR. COON) It talks about with --the 19 attachment made shed a little light on it --but 20 there was an Armstrong document that that memo 21 apparently addressed. Have you seen that before? 22 A. No, 1 haven't. 23 Q. The Armstrong memo starts addressing a 24 reduction in OSHA standards o f a 5 particle count to I 25 a 2 particle count. Do you know anything about ; Nell McCallum & Associates 25 (Pages 94 to 97) Page 98 1 changes in OSHA standard with respect to the 2 atmospheric amounts o f asbestos dust during that time 3 frame? 4 A. The only thing I can say about that is I 5 know that OSHA, from the time they initiated the 6 standards, continued to reduce the permissible fiber 7 count in the sample. 8 Q. Do you know whether or not during this time 9 frame that Victor was making any type o f effort to 10 reduce the amount o f asbestos in the gasket materials 11 that it was ordering? 12 A. No, I don't. 13 Did you want me to read the rest of this? 14 (EXHIBIT NO. 36 WAS MARKED) 15 Q. No, that's okay. I think we've still got a 16 lot o f ground to cover. 17 We had -- this is Exhibit 36. It's V PD -145 18 dash 2219, through 2224. And this appears to have 19 been an OSHA citation issued to Victor at the 225 20 Atwood Havana, Illinois, facility. Which one was 21 that? 22 A. There was a facility in Havana, Illinois, 23 that was open from, I believe, 1972 until 1980. 24 Although, I'm not absolute positive o f those dates. 25 Q. Do you know what was manufactured at that Page 100 1 were something for me, what I would determine whether 2 I thought the violation was appropriate or not and 3 I'd probably discuss it with the general manager. 4 Q. Okay. Were you - do you have a personal 5 recollection o f the various OSHA fines and violations 6 that were determined as a result o f that inspection 7 o f that plant in 1976? 8 A. No, I have no idea. I didn't even know that 9 document existed. 10 Q. And I'll just read a few o f them; but, 11 basically, there were a number o f findings by the 12 OSHA inspectors o f violations that related to 13 asbestos issues at that facility. That's a fair 14 statement, isn't it? 15 A. Well, I haven't read this; so... 16 Q. It talked about failure to provide some 17 labeling on asbestos waste material? 18 A. That's the first one that's mentioned here, 19 right. 20 Q. Failure to provide caution labels on some 21 bins where asbestos was stored? 22 A. I believe that's correct. 23 Q. And failure to maintain external surfaces 24 free o f asbestos? 25 A. I believe that's correct, also. Page 99 1 facility? 2 A. Primarily the product that was there was the 3 heavy - what we considered to be the heavy duty 4 product, the diesel type application product. 5 Q. Those were the heavier gauge gaskets used in 6 diesel engines? 7 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 8 A. No, not necessarily heavier gauge, but 9 configuration for diesel engines. 10 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. Would OSHA citations or 11 violations o f this nature be the type that would get 12 circulated within management at Victor? 13 A. There were some specific --there are some 14 specific OSHA requirements for posting in the event 15 of a violation. 1don't recall offhand whether the 16 violation itself has to be posted or some sort o f a 17 synopsis o f the violation has to be posted, but we 18 would have complied with whatever those regulations 19 were at the given time. 20 Q. Who would have made the decisions with 21 respect to whether or not - as from Victor's 22 standpoint, whether or not to contest those types of 23 fines or assessments by OSHA? 24 A. Well, in this particular case, I really 25 can't answer the question. If you're asking if it Page 101 1 Q. Down here at the bottom, it talks about 2 failure to provide or make available to each employee 3 within 30 calendar days following their first 4 employment in an occupation exposed to airborne 5 concentrations --I think it carries over on the next 6 page - 7 A. Uh-huh. 8 Q. - o f asbestos fibers, comprehensive medical 9 examination. Do you know anything about the medical 10 examination standards that OSHA had in place at that 11 time? 12 A. No, I really don't. 13 Q. Do you know who would have been in charge or 14 responsible for making sure that the employees were 15 provided with those types o f medical examinations? 16 A. I can only speak for the Chicago facility, 17 and it would have been done by the human resource 18 department in the Chicago facility. 19 Q. Do you know whether the human resources 20 department at the Chicago facility did, in fact, have 21 such a routine examination for the employees? 22 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 23 A. I believe for all o f the tim e, that I can 24 recall, we had an employment physical that took place 25 at the time of job offer. Nell McCallum & Associates 26 (Pages 98 to 101) Page 102 1 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. You also were aware 2 that there was supposed to be annual comprehensive 3 medical examination for all the employees engaged in 4 those occupations where they were exposed to 5 asbestos? 6 A. I know that we did pulmonary testing. 7 Q. I think you talked about that in your last 8 deposition, some X rays and breathing test deal? 9 A. Right. 10 Q. In fact, I think you were one o f the persons 11 that went through that program from time to time, did 12 you not? 13 A. Yes, I did. 14 Q. Did you have --who would have been the 15 person at your facility that would have been the 16 liaison with labor during that time frame, that being 17 the United Auto Workers? I think they were the 18 union, weren't they? 19 A. In respect to what? 20 Q. Well, did they have different liaisons for 21 different issues; or was there typically one person 22 that coordinated it? 23 A. No, there would have been different liaisons 24 for different issues. 25 (EXHIBIT NO. 37 WAS MARKED) Page 103 1 Q. Okay. Well, after those various OSHA fines 2 came out, the UAW represents --this is Exhibit 37 - 3 expressed some concern about the findings and issued 4 a letter to Dana. 5 A. (Reviewing document) 6 MS. BLAZEK: Have you seen this one 7 before? 8 THE WITNESS: No, I haven't. 9 MS. BLAZEK: AM right. Then why don't 10 you take a minute to read through it? 11 And we would object. 12 A. (Reviewing document) Okay. 13 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. So, anyway, is it fair 14 to say that one o f the representatives of the union 15 there expressed concern about the OSHA citations and 16 sent a letter to the plant manager or one o f the 17 managers for labor relations at Dana? 18 A. Yeah, Mr. Schira was not involved in the 19 Havana facility. This letter was at the UAW 20 international solidarity house level. 21 Q. Okay. What does that mean, "house level"? 22 A. Solidarity house, there were a number o f 23 contracts in place at that time with the UAW and 24 there was a corporate industrial relations department 25 and solidarity house on the labor union side o f the Page 104 1 group and that's who those people were. 2 Q. Okay. And in response to the OSHA 3 citations, he, basically, sent a letter to labor 4 relations expressing the UAW concern over their 5 various members with respect to what the OSHA 6 citations addressed? 7 A. That's, basically, what the letter says, : 8 yes. . 9 (EXHIBIT NO. 38 WAS MARKED) 10 Q. And then in response - I'll show you 11 Exhibit 38. I believe one of the OSHA citations 12 addressed the failure o f Victor to provide annual 13 X ray and pulmonary function exams for the employees, ; 14 didn't they? Do you need to go back and look at that 15 again? (Tendering) , 16 I think it was on the second page. ; 17 A. Right. Yes, that's correct -- ' 18 Q. Okay. | 19 A. - based on this document. ) 20 Q. Okay. And then in response to the OSHA ) 21 citations and the letter from the UAW expressing 22 concern over the membership, there was -- 1 23 MR. COON: Counsel, if you can show him 1 24 Exhibit 3 8 - ; 25 MS. BLAZEK: Yeah, but 1just don't j i i Page 105 | 1 think that - this isn't in response to the UAW ' 2 letter. This is in response to something else. 3 MR. COON: Okay. This is probably in 4 response --yeah, this is in response to the 5 department o f labor. Sorry. We got these out of 6 order. 7 Q. (BY MR. COON) (Tendering) This would be the 8 follow-up letter from Mr. Meyer, who was the OSHA : 9 gentleman. And we don't have a copy o f the actual 10 letter but apparently he sent a letter out as a 11 follow-up to the OSHA violations and if you could, 12 turn to the --it addresses what they were doing to 13 respond to the OSHA citations. If you could, go to 14 the second page. It indicates that the medical ! 15 facility could provide a comprehensive medical 16 examination. So, there's no present means to take a 17 pulmonary function test. 18 And I wanted to find out from you, sir, if 19 you knew whether or not they were trying to do that 20 internally or if there was some reason that the 21 Victor facilities could not have PFT's performed of 22 the employees on an outsource basis'1 23 A. I have no idea. 24 Q. Okay. Were PFT's being performed by the 25 employees at your plant at that time frame to comply Nell McCallum & Associates 27 (Pages 102 to 105) Page 106 1 with OSHA requirements? 2 A. In February o f '77? I really have no clear 3 recollection o f exactly what the period o f times were 4 that we did the testing; so --we did pulmonary 5 function testing over the years. I have no idea 6 whether in 1977 that was the case or not. 7 Q. Okay. Do you know whether you were taking 8 the chest X rays and having the pulmonary function 9 tests conducted there on site at your plant, or were 10 the employees sent somewhere to have that done? 11 A. To be honest with you, I don't really 12 recall. 13 Q. Do you know whether or not they kept the 14 findings from the chest X ray reviews and the 15 pulmonary function tests somewhere? 16 A. I don't know that to be a fact. I really 17 didn't have any access to any medical records, as 18 such, o f employees. 19 Q. Okay. Do you know what the processes or 20 procedures were in dealing with employees that ended 21 up with an abnormal chest X ray or PFT as a result of 22 the annual screening program? 23 A. My recollection is that at that point in 24 time, we had a meeting with the employee to inform 25 them that there had been some abnormality, if, in Page 108 1 A. Would have been the human resource 2 department. 3 Q. Would that same gentleman be a good person 4 to go to to find out more about that? 5 A. I would anticipate he would be, yeah. 6 (EXHIBIT NO. 39 WAS MARKED) 7 Q. And next 1 have Exhibit 39, and this was a 8 letter from C. C. - C. C. Ulfig, U-l-f-i-g, 9 industrial sales manager. Did you know Mr. Ulfig? 10 A. Yes, I did. 11 Q. Where was he at? What plant? 12 A. He wasn't -- he was associated with the 13 sales department. He had an office --well, 14 depending on --what's the date of the letter? 15 Q. October, 1978. 16 A. He probably was working out o f our home 17 office at that point in time. 18 Q. Okay. This is VPD-143 dash 1113 dated 19 October 3, '78, to a Dean Berggren, engineer at John 20 Deere. John Deere was one o f your customers; right? 21 A. That's correct. 22 Q. You talked to us at your last deposition. 23 In fact, you had a few documents, I think, you 24 brought with you from two or three o f your venders 25 that had started asking Dana to provide a warning on Page 107 1 fact, there was one, and suggested they follow up 2 with their physicians. 3 Q. Okay. And were you ever involved in that 4 meeting or discussion, discussional process with the 5 employees? 6 A. Was I? No, I was not. 7 Q. Okay. Who typically was? 8 A. The human resource department. 9 Q. And who would that have been in the 10 Seventies? 11 A. It probably would have been John Lunsford. 12 Q. Do you know where he is now? 13 A. Still employed by Dana. I believe he's in 14 Minnesota. 15 Q. Do you know whether or not as a result of 16 any o f these X ray examinations and pulmonary 17 function studies that were conducted o f employees at 18 your plant in the Seventies that any o f them came 19 back positive for abnormalities that could be 20 associated to occupational pneumoconiosis or asbestos 21 disease? 22 A. No, I don't. 23 Q. Do you know who handled the workers' 24 compensation issues at your plant in the Seventies? 25 Would that also have been the human resources? Page 109 1 their gasket materials. Do you recall that? 2 A. Well, that's not correct. They weren't 3 venders. They were customers. 4 Q. Okay. The customers. I think Detroit was 5 one. 6 A. For diesel, right. 7 Q. And there was a request from two or three o f 8 those customers in the '84-'85 time frame to start 9 putting a warning on your gasket materials? 10 A. That's correct. 11 Q. This document is 1978. It appears to be -- 12 I don't have a copy o f the letter - from 13 Mr. Berggren, but it appears he expressed some 14 concerns to Dana about asbestos continuing to be used 15 in their asbestos gaskets. 16 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 17 Q. (BY MR. COON) Have you seen that document 18 before? 19 A. No, I've never seen the document before. 20 Q. Okay. Are you aware o f any o f your 21 customers back in the Seventies expressing any 22 concern about the continued use o f asbestos as part 23 o f the ingredients o f y o u r gasket materials? 24 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 25 A. No, I have no idea knowledge o f it. Nell McCallum & Associates 28 (Pages 106 to 109) Page 110 1 Q. (BY MR. COON) Now, Mr. --how do you 2 pronounce his name? Ulfig? 3 A. Ulfig, right. 4 Q. And he's the industrial sales manager? 5 A. Right. 6 Q. What were his responsibilities during that 7 time frame? 8 A. Well, he sort of over- --you know, oversaw 9 the sales force that was associated with what we 10 considered to be industrial sales. And industrial 11 sales to us is Caterpillar and John Deere and CASE 12 and Waukesha and people like that. They're diesel 13 engine customers. 14 Q. Okay. Now, you've never seen that document 15 before? 16 A. No, I don't believe so. 17 Q. Do you know o f any customers that started 18 expressing any concern at any time in the late 19 Seventies about the continued use o f asbestos in 20 gaskets? 21 MS. BLAZEK: Object, form. 1 think 22 that's your speculation about what he might have been 23 concerned about. 24 A. Just give me a minute to read this, if you 25 would. (Reviewing document) Okay. Page 112 1 were coming in from the customers that were then 2 being ferried out to various people to respond to? 3 A. I don't know o f any particular system. 1 4 would think that whoever the letter went to probably 5 had their own system for filing or maintaining their 6 records. 7 Q. Were you ever involved in helping formulate 8 the Material Safety Data Sheets on any of the gasket 9 product lines? ; 10 A. No, I wasn't. 11 Q. When do you recall them first being used at 12 the facility you worked at? 13 A. 1 really don't have a good recollection. 1 14 would say it would have been in the Eighties 15 sometime. 16 Q. Do you know who was responsible at Dana for 17 formulating the Material Safety Data Sheets and the 18 information contained in them? 19 A. At Dana? 20 Q. Yes, sir. 21 A. Overall, 1do not know. 22 Q. Do you know who would have been responsible 1 23 for simulating the MSDS information from the 24 companies that provided the asbestos materials to 25 Victor, such as GAF and Armstrong? Page 111 1 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. There was writing up 2 here that says, "Charlie, good letter. John." 3 Do you know who John would have been? Is 4 that John Zeitz? 5 A. I don't know. Could have been John Zeitz. 6 Q. And what was his role in '78? 7 A. I believe in '78 he would have been the 8 chief engineer. 9 Q. It talks in the letter --it says, "Asbestos 10 board does pose a problem and the solution here is to 11 fully enclose materials so none can escape." 12 Do you know what they're talking about 13 there? Is that the millboard? 14 A. I really don't know what Charlie was 15 discussing there. 16 Q. Would there normally have been a repository 17 where customer complaints would have been stored -- 18 customers being the major customers like the Big 3, 19 John Deere, Caterpillar, people like that? 20 A. I have no idea how the sales department 21 would have handled documents like that, if you're 22 referring to the letter that would have precipitated 23 that letter. 24 Q. Okay. What we were looking for is if there 25 would be places to go to to look for the letters that Page 113 1 A. What period o f time would we be speaking of? 2 Q. Okay. Weil. I guess, first, back in the 3 Seventies when the MSDS became part of the 4 requirements. 5 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. Misstates 6 the regulations. 7 A. I would think that initially that type of 8 document would have been collected in the engineering 9 group. 10 (EXHIBIT NO. 40 WAS MARKED) 11 Q. (BY MR. COON) I've got a copy o f a document. 12 This one was dated August 14, 1978, from a 13 Mr. Drinkwaterat GAF to Mr. North at Victor 14 Products; and it includes an MSDS on what they 15 describe as asbestos paper. 16 The asbestos paper was something that was 17 acquired from GAF in the formulation of your gaskets, 18 was it not? 19 A. I assume they're talking about facing 20 material. 21 Q. Were you aware of any requests by any of the 22 Victor management folks of GAF to provide to Victor 23 copies o f the MSDS's on any o f the sheet product that 24 was provided to Victor to make their gasket material? 25 A. Is that question in relationship to this Nell McCallum & Associates 29 (Pages 110 to 113) Page 114 1 document? 2 Q. Y es, sir. 3 A. If you can, give me a moment. I've never 4 seen it before. (R eview ing document) 5 Okay. I see a letter, and I see a Material 6 Safety Data Sheet. Is there something specific? 7 Q. Y es, sir. In looking at that, the MSDS 8 lists the asbestos sheet material; right? 9 A. The M SD S lists the trade name in --as 10 asbestos paper? 11 Q. Okay. That was sent to Mr. North? 12 A. The letter was addressed to Mr. North, 13 correct. 14 Q. W ith the M SDS attached? 15 A. I don't know whether that's true or not, but 16 it is attached now . 17 Q. Okay. W ell, it's talking about, "Dear 18 Harold" -- they're talking about Harold North there; 19 right? 20 A. Right. 21 Q. It says, "Attached are the form 20's" -- 22 which are the MSDS's --it says, concerning the 23 asbestos millboard and asbestos paper. This is 24 V PD -143 dash 446. 25 A. W ell, the page --this is Page 1 and Page 2 Page 115 1 o f a document. I only see one attachment that calls 2 out asbestos paper. 3 (EXHIBIT NO. 41 WAS MARKED) 4 Q. Okay. Well, here's the other one I was 5 going to show you. This is Exhibit 41. This is the 6 asbestos millboard. 7 A. Okay. 8 Q. Do you know why Mr. North had requested that 9 information? 10 A. No, 1 really don't. 11 Q. Okay. GAF lists on there, if you go to 12 their M SDS, lists the product; and then Page 2 it 13 lists the posted hazards associated with the product, 14 does it not? 15 A. I guess - what are you referring to? 16 Q. Okay. We're talking about the effects of 17 the overexposure to products. 18 A. Oh, overexposure. 19 Q. Right. This is asbestos paper. What were 20 they saying back in nineteen seventy - is it 21 seventy --looks like '78, January of 1978 is the 22 date on their MSDS; correct? 23 A. Yes, sir. 24 Q. And what are they saying about their 25 asbestos paper at that time regarding effects o f Page 116 1 exposure or overexposure? 2 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. Since he 3 hasn't seen the document before, we object to the 4 foundational grounds. i 5 A. I can read to you what it says here. j 6 Q. (BY M R COON) Okay. : 7 A. "Breathing o f asbestos fibers in significant ? 8 amounts may produce irreversible lung damage" -- g 9 parens --"mesothelioma." 1 10 Q. Mesothelioma, have you heard o f 11 "mesothelioma" before? 12 A. Not in that terminology. 13 Q. Do you know what mesothelioma is? 14 A. Well, apparently it's asbestosis, according 15 to this. ! 16 Q. Do you know the difference between 1 17 asbestosis and mesothelioma? j 18 A. No, I don't. j 19 Q. Are you aware o f mesothelioma being a type j 20 o f cancer? j 21 A. Yes, I am. j 22 Q. Okay. Y ou understand asbestosis to not be a 1 23 cancer but to be a nonmalignant condition? i 24 A. N o, I can't say I really do understand that | 25 it - that it's that clearly defined. j i '|i Page 117 | 1 Q. Okay. So, you don't really understand as a j 2 plant manager, there in a company that made asbestos | 3 products for decades, the difference between the j 4 diseases it causes, such as asbestosis from diseases | 5 such as mesothelioma? j 6 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. J 7 A. I don't know that I've ever seen any j 8 scientific facts that link asbestos to these j 9 diseases. 1 10 Q. (BY MR. COON) So, are you not convinced that j 11 asbestos fibers cause mesothelioma? | 12 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. { 13 A. I'm saying that probably that the average j 14 amount o f asbestos that I or someone else would come ] 15 in contact with who worked in the facility has not j 16 led, in my knowledge, to any o f these diseases. j 17 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. Do you know whether or j 18 not asbestos --do you believe asbestos to cause ; 19 those diseases? j 20 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. I 21 A. Well, 1mean, I think you're talking to the ] 22 wrong person. You ought to be talking to a medical j 23 expert. j 24 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. And, again, Mr. Austin, j 25 I'm not trying to spar with you. You just stated you j Nell McCallum & Associates 30 (Pages 114 to 117) Page 118 1 weren't convinced that asbestos caused mesothelioma 2 awhile ago, and I was just wanting to clear the 3 record on -- 4 MR. SPEZIAL1: He didn't say that. 5 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 6 MR. SPEZIALI: He didn't say that at 7 all. That's not what he said. 8 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. Well, basically, what 9 I'm trying to find out from you, sir, you were the 10 plant manager there for many years. How many years, II 20? 12 A. 1 was plant manager in the Chicago facility 13 for seven years --six years. 14 Q. And a plant manager at another facility 15 after that? 16 A. Current facility. 17 Q. And for how many years? 18 A. Six years, seven years, almost. 19 Q. Okay. And there was a lot of debriefing at 20 the facility through the Seventies and Eighties about 21 particular health hazards associated to asbestos, 22 generally, in materials, was there not? 23 MS. BLAZEK: Object, form. 24 A. Yes, there was. 25 Q. (BY MR. COON) And part of that entailed Page 120 1 understand you now. 2 In response to the MSDS that was provided to 3 Victor in '78 from GAF, do you know what, if 4 anything, was done to change or modify the MSDS of 5 the asbestos products that Victor manufactured at 6 that time? 7 A. No, I have no idea. i 8 Q. Did --during that time frame, did the > 9 Victor plant have in its safety department any normal - 10 protocol with respect to how to deal with asbestos 11 dust, like what they call wet processes or negative 12 air systems, PPE, or protective breathing apparatus? ' 13 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 14 A. We didn't allow employees to raise dust in 15 the air. We used vacuum cleaners to clean it up. We - 16 tried to contain the asbestos residue and place it in ' ! 17 plastic bags, seal those bags or tie those bags and 1 18 label those bags for disposal. ( 19 Q. (BY MR. COON) Was this in response to the t 20 OSHA compliance? I 21 A. Yes, it was. ! 22 Q. Do you know what was done prior to the OSHA 23 regulations with respect to those same issues? 1 24 A. When I first started there, I believe that 25 the asbestos scrap would have been handled like any . Page 119 1 discussions with respect to the potential medical 2 issues related to asbestos fiber exposures? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And y'all were made aware that asbestos 5 fibers at certain levels of exposure could cause lung 6 disease? 7 A. No, 1guess that's where 1differ a little 8 bit. I understand that there were levels of asbestos 9 fiber that were recommended by OSHA as being maximum 10 levels. 11 Q. Yes, sir. 12 A. 1am not aware of any positive link between 13 those recommendations and conditions 14 Q. And I'm losing something in your explanation 15 there. 16 A. Well, asbestos - there's asbestos 17 everywhere. I mean, asbestos is a mineral; and 18 everyone is not walking around with mesothel- 19 mesothelioma or asbestosis. So, I would think that 20 the amount o f exposure would have significant - a 21 significant factor in whether or not there could be 22 any disease at all, and I have no idea what the 23 exposure level really is that would be necessary to 24 get either o f those diseases. 25 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. Fair enough. I think I i Page 121 1 other scrap and would have gone to a landfill. 2 Q. Do you recall ever reviewing any o f the ) 3 Material Safety Data Sheets that Dana prepared for ( 4 their own product lines that contained asbestos? ` 5 A. No, I can't say I ever really do. , 6 Q. Let me show you this. This was a second 1 7 attachment on the GAF MSDS that regarded asbestos I 8 millboard. And if 1can show you by comparison, ' 9 there is asbestos paper MSDS and there is asbestos ; 10 millboard MSDS and if you look at Page 2 o f both of * 11 those - and the GAF effects o f overexposure - let's 12 see. If you compare them --for the effects o f j 13 overexposure it says the same thing, I believe, 1 14 "Breathing asbestos fibers in significant amounts may ; 15 produce irreversible lung damage" - parens - "lung j 16 damage, mesothelioma, asbestosis." 17 A. Uh-huh. They read the same. 18 Q. And they add one other thing here. I think : 19 it actually says on this one "irreversible lung ; 20 damage, parens "mesothelioma and lung cancer." Here , 21 it says "mesothelioma, asbestosis." 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. And then you look below that -- if we can ; 24 lay these down side by side, it talks next on the j 25 MSDS o f the emergency and first aid procedures and : j Nell McCallum & Associates 31 (Pages 118 to 121) Page 122 1 describes the wet down processes, right, use adequate 2 protective breathing, proper ventilation. And on 3 this one (indicating), the asbestos millboard, it's 4 been marked out. 5 MS. BLAZEK: Well, no. I mean, I think 6 these are the old form o f highlighters, probably. It 7 was probably highlighted and copied; and that's how 8 it looks. Don't you remember back in the old days 9 how highlighting would black things out when you 10 copied it? 11 Q. (BY MR. COON) So, you think that might have 12 been something that was highlighted as opposed to 13 marked out? 14 A. 1 have no way o f knowing. 15 Q. Okay. And then there are some other areas 16 that were either highlighted or marked out under the 17 disposal procedures and the precautions to be taken 18 while handling the products. And all that's done on 19 the --just the one form, which I think was the 20 millboard form. 21 A. Okay. I'm sorry. What --what did you want 22 me to see here, Mr. Coon? 23 Q. Okay. Well, you can't -- 1 guess what we're 24 determining from looking at those two, you can't 25 tell --I presume those to be issues that were marked Page 124 1 were used all the way back to the mid-1980's had all 2 the same information that GAF was providing on their 3 product lines acutally deleted from your MSDS? 4 A. I have no idea. 5 Q. If that were the case, then it would be more 6 apparent that there was an intention to delete that 7 additional information from your own MSDS as opposed 8 to emphasizing it. That would be a fair statement, e 9 wouldn't it? | 10 A. I have no idea what the intention is here. 11 Q. Okay. We'll move on. Have you ever talked 12 to Mr. North about the MSDS on your products? 13 A. No, I haven't. 14 Q. Would you have any idea why he would want to 15 delete any of the precautionary information 5 16 concerning the use of the asbestos products? \ 17 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form, j 18 argumentative, speculation. j 19 A. I have no idea why Mr. North would do that, j 20 no. ! 21 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. j 22 A. I have no idea that Mr. North's intention j 23 was to do that. 1 24 (EXHIBIT NO. 42 WAS MARKED) j j 25 Q. Mr. Austin, I next have No. 42. This is | Page 123 1 out for some reason, but y'all think that might have 2 been something that was whited or highlighted to 3 emphasize them? 4 A. Well, the dark --yeah, the dark lines, 5 frankly, are characteristic o f Harold's use of a 6 flare pen; and he may have used it to try to 7 underline or something and missed it. 8 Q. Okay. Well, he missed it -- 9 A. I really can't tell. 10 Q. He kind o f missed it right in the middle of 11 every one o f them, didn't he? 12 A. And he used flare pens on everything he did. 13 Q. Not very good at drawing underneath them? 14 A. No, not particularly. 15 Q. Okay. Have you gone -- 16 A. Not very good to read the memos in many 17 cases, either. 18 Q. Well, have you gone back to look at your own 19 MSDS to see if the things that are actually 20 underlined or highlighted there were actually the 21 same things that happened to be omitted from your own 22 MSDS? 23 A. No, 1 have no idea. 24 Q. Okay. Do you know whether or not if you 25 reviewed the MSDS from the Dana gasket materials that Page 125 j 1 from Greg Butler. Do you know who Greg Butler was? * 2 A. Yes, Ido. - 3 Q. Who was he? ' 4 A. He was the area manager in the Chicago 5 facility for manufacturing, and he later became the 6 plant manager in the Robinson facility. - 7 Q. Okay. And this is September, 1980. It was . 8 to J.E.Z. Would that be Mr. Zeitz again, John Zeitz? ' 9 A. Probably. ' 10 Q. Okay. Did you have anybody else there with 11 the same monogram, "J.E.Z."? 12 A. Not that I can recall. 13 Q. Okay. This is Document No. VPD-143 dash 241 j 14 through 243, and it's a cover letter with an j 15 attachment o f being a number o f what are called NIOSH i 16 notes. j 17 Okay. I think the cover memo from Greg to 18 Mr. Zeitz said, "Here's another log for your fire." ! 19 A. That appears to be what it says here, yes. 20 Q. And then he attaches with that a copy o f 21 what are called the NIOSH notes. j 22 A. Okay. 23 Q. And --is that correct? j 24 A. It appears to be correct. j 25 MS. BLAZEK: Have you seen these j Nell McCallum & Associates 32 (Pages 122 to 125) Page 126 I before? 2 THE WITNESS: No. 1 haven't. 3 MS. BLAZEK: We would object. 4 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. It says, "Findings of 5 joint NIOSH" --slash -- "OSHA Work Group Concerning 6 Health Effects of Asbestos." That's the title o f the 7 article; right? 8 A. That's correct. 9 Q. And then it lists a few things that are 10 actually underlined there. Could you just read off 11 for me the things that they underlined? 12 A. "There is no safe exposure limit for 13 asbestos. All commercial and several noncommercial 14 forms of asbestos cause disease," I believe that is. 15 and then the word "recommending" is underlined and 16 "100,000 fibers per cubic meter o f air." 17 Q. Were you ever the recipient of the NIOSH 18 notes? 19 A. No, I wasn't. 20 Q. Was the results of the NIOSH notes something 21 that was circulated around with management, to your 22 knowledge? 23 A. I have a recollection o f having seen it very 24 sporadically, but I can't say it was the type of 25 thing that was circulated on a regular basis. Page 128 1 you had that were asbestos-containing materials, do 2 you know when they had first available replacements 3 for those product lines? 4 A. I would say as early as the early 1980's we 5 had begun to move away. 6 Q. And do you know what the reasons for it were 7 at that time? 8 A. There was some concerns about shortage o f .; 9 asbestos fiber. There were concerns about public : 10 awareness that --o f asbestos. There were newer 11 materials being developed that seemed to perform 12 equally or better than asbestos in the applications. 13 (EXHIBIT NO. 43 WAS MARKED) 14 Q. We have what's marked as Exhibit 43. and it 15 listed a number o f issues associated with considering 16 nonasbestos gasket materials, as well as a press 17 release. This is VPD-146 dash 3336 through 3339. 18 Were you involved in promulgating that ; 19 release or the information contained in the j 20 attachment'.' i 21 A. I don't recall seeing the first page o f this j 22 ever before. I remember reading the release; but 1 ; 23 was not involved in the development o f the release. ; 24 if that was your question. ' 25 (EXHIBIT NO. 44 WAS MARKED) i Page 127 1 Q. Mr. Austin, did you participate in the 2 formulation o f the asbestos-free product lines? 3 A. 1guess 1don't understand the question. 4 Q. Were you involved in the changeover from 5 some o f the asbestos-containing gasket materials to 6 the asbestos-free gaskets? 7 A. From the manufacturing standpoint - 8 Q. Yes, sir. 9 A. - yes. 10 Q. What was your role in making the transition 11 from asbestos-containing gasket materials to the 12 asbestos-free gasket materials? 13 A. 1was the area manager at the time. So, I 14 had a responsibility for making the switch. 15 Q. And who would you have reported to at that 16 time? 17 A. 1would have reported --well, that was June 18 of 1988. I believe Tom Gorman. 19 Q. Do you know when it was that Victor first 20 had asbestos-free gaskets as a substitute for their 21 normal gasket lines? 22 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. I mean, 23 it supposes that everything at one point was 24 asbestos. 25 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. For those products that Page 129 ; 1 Q. Okay. We next have Exhibit 44. Who is 2 P. B. Field? 3 A. Pm sorry'.' What was the name? : 4 Q. P. B. Field. F-i-e-l-d. 5 A. Oh, Parker Field. 6 Q. What did Mr. Field do? 7 A. He was the general manager for a period o f 8 time in the division. 9 Q. While counsel is looking at it. I'll follow 10 up with a couple o f other questions. 11 Have you seen the news release that Dana 12 issued in the summer o f 1980, regarding the 13 asbestos-free gaskets? 14 A. I recall seeing the news release, yes. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. 1 hadn't seen the two pages previous to 17 that. 18 Q. How did the market respond to Dana's 19 availability o f asbestos-free gasket materials'7 20 A. 1 guess with mixed reactions. 21 Q. How so? 22 A. Well, som e o f the customers felt that, you 23 know, this was a good thing. Some of the customers 24 felt that things weren't broken, why do we want to 25 replace them with something new, something that's Nell McCallum & Associates 33 (Pages 126 to 129) Page 130 1 untried? 2 Q. Were they more expensive? 3 A. I would say in the overall scope, yes, they 4 probably were. 5 Q. So, there was probably some opposition just 6 as a result o f the bottom line cost? 7 A. I would assume that that would be the case. 8 Q. The document, Exhibit 44, from Mr. Butler, 9 is this the same Butler that had wrote the memo that 10 said, "Here's another log for your fire" -- 11 A. Right. 12 Q. - and the NIOSH notes? 13 This was sent to Mr. Field, "OSHA Intent to 14 Reduce TWA Exposure." 15 They're talking about the time weight 16 average there. Are you familiar with that? 17 A. Uh-huh. 18 Q. Do you know what the "time weight average" 19 is? 20 A. Right. 21 Q. You're familiar with OSHA's attempts in the 22 early Eighties to further reduce the amount o f 23 exposure that employees could have to asbestos in the 24 workplace? 25 A. As I said before, the movement was always to Page 132 1 Q. (BY MR. COON) - to asbestos? 2 A. I can't speak for Dana. The discussions in 3 the plant were that there would be reduced levels, 4 continue to be reduced levels. 5 Q. Sure. Well, there were concerns at Dana 6 that as OSHA kept reducing the amount of exposure 7 that a worker could have in a workplace, that 8 eventually Dana would get to the point where they may 9 not be able to comply with the thresholds under the 10 time weight average for their employees, weren't 11 there? 12 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. He's not 13 here to speak for Dana. 14 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. Well, you would believe 15 that with the OSHA regulations continuing to further 16 restrict the amount o f exposure to asbestos that an 17 individual could have in a workplace, that it would 18 get to the point to where you may not be able to make 19 a product with asbestos in it anymore? That's 20 something you were aware of, wasn't it, as a plant 21 manager -- 22 A. I would -- 23 Q. --at a company that made asbestos? 24 A. I would say me, personally, yes. 25 Q. Yeah. And that was part of the reason that Page 131 1 less fibers. 2 Q. Sure. OSHA had a long-term goal o f 3 continuing to further and further reduce the amount 4 o f asbestos in the workplace, didn't they? 5 MS. BLAZER: Object to form. 6 A. I -- you know, 1don't know what OSHA's 7 long-term plan was. I know that whenever the 8 exposure levels were recei- --or revisited, they 9 were always lower. 10 Q. Yeah, they never were going back to raising 11 the amount o f exposure you could have? 12 A. Right. 13 Q. They kept going back and reducing the amount 14 o f exposure that you could have in the workplace; 15 right? 16 A. That's correct. 17 Q. And in 1980 there were discussions about 18 further reductions in the amount of exposure an 19 individual could have in the workplace; right? 20 A. I'm sorry? 21 Q. In the early 1980's, Dana was aware that 22 OSHA was going to make attempts to further reduce the 23 amount o f exposure that a worker could have in the 24 workplace -- 25 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. Page 133 1 Dana was going out looking at alternatives for 2 asbestos in their gasket materials, wasn't it? 3 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. Same 4 objection. 5 A. And 1really don't know why that was. The 6 material development that was being done was started 7 long before the levels were being reduced 8 dramatically. So, I really don't know exactly what 9 the inclination was there. 10 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. Well, do you know Carl 11 Hayden? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Who is he? 14 A. His name appeared on one o f the previous 15 memos. I believe I stated I don't know exactly what 16 his title was, that he worked in the engineering 17 group. 18 Q. Okay. And when it talks about this, we're 19 talking about the current restrictions set down by 20 OSHA's 2.0 fibers and there was discussion about it 21 being reduced to 0.1. Do you recall that further 22 restriction to the 0.1 by OSHA in 1980? 23 A. Specifically I don't remember those numbers, 24 no. 25 Q. Well, there was an awareness that if OSHA ,, .. ....... . , ,,, Nell McCallum & Associates .......... 34 (Pages 130 to 133) Page 134 1 reduced the exposure levels to that point, that you 2 wouldn't even be able to meet that criteria anywhere 3 in the plant? 4 MS. BLAZEK: Object, form. 5 A. If you're asking me if that's what this 6 letter from Mr. Butler states, that's what it states. 7 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. Well, is that something 8 you wouid agree with? 9 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 10 A. No, I --you know, without seeing all o f the 11 information, I don't know that 1 could agree with it 12 or not agree with it, to be honest with you. 13 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. In fact, what it talks 14 about here, in order to comply with that is that what 15 you would do with your employees --they could not 16 work in an environment where they were manufacturing 17 these gaskets at that level. So, what you could do 18 is you'd acutally shuttle the employees out hourly so 19 that each one of them would work in that area one - 20 just for one hour instead of the whole day so they 21 would be in the eight-hour time weight average 22 compliance. 23 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. You're 24 continuing to use the word "you" and "Dana" when this 25 is to discover Mr. Austin's personal knowledge at the Page 135 1 Chicago plant and the plants where he worked. 2 MR. COON: Okay. 3 MS. BLAZEK: And the document you have 4 in front o f him concerns Robinson. 5 A. You know, once again, I'm not in a position 6 to say what Greg was thinking at this point in time. 7 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. Did y'all have any 8 discussions at your plant with respect to the 9 potential for having to rotate their employees out o f 10 the areas where they were manufacturing the gasket 11 materials in order to meet the OSHA mandates with 12 respect to exposure? 13 A. N o, I don't recall ever having those 14 discussions. 15 Q. Did you ever discuss these same issues with 16 any o f the other plant personnel with respect to 17 those same issues at the Robinson facility? 18 A. No, I didn't. 19 (EXHIBIT NO. 45 WAS MARKED) 20 Q. Mr. Austin, we have Exhibit 45. This was 21 just a general notice that GAF was ending their sale 22 o f the asbestos paper. Do you recall GAF 23 discontinuing their manufacture of asbestos paper you 24 guys used in the formulation o f your asbestos 25 gaskets? Page I .'h 1 A. No, I can't say I do. 2 Q. Do you recall any problems with respect to 3 supplies from your various vendors o f asbestos 4 materials to make your gaskets at that time? 5 A. What's the date o f the letter? 6 Q. I'm sorry. 1 9 8 0 ,1 believe. . 7 MS. BLAZEK: Where do -- it doesn't ' 8 have the date. Do you think those numbers arc the : 9 date? 10 MR. COON: I think this comes with it. ; 11 Here's the other part o f it. This is 124. That's 12 the cover page to the announcement. 1think the 13 sticker is on the wrong page. 14 A. This news release relates to asbestos paper 15 to independent distributors for household consumer 16 markets. I have no idea if this is the same type o f 17 material that would be used in gaskets. 18 MS. BLAZEK: 1 think the cover letter i 19 addresses that. | 20 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. 21 MS. BLAZEK: Why don't you take a look 22 at that? ! 23 A. Okay. Cover letter says that it does not j 24 affect the sale o f any other asbestos products = 25 produced at our area 16th Street plant. \ \ i \ Page 137 \ 1 Q. (BY MR. COON) Do you know whether or not it : 2 impacted any o f the things that were used in the 3 gasket manufacturing process at that time? ; 4 A. I have no recollection that there was any ' 5 impact on us. : 6 Q. Do you know if this was the same paper that 7 was used in the formulation of your gaskets at that 8 time? 9 A. Facing materials tend to be proprietary 10 formulations. So, I would have to think that it was 11 not the same material that was being used in our 12 gasket facing materials. 13 MR. COON: I'm going to try to wrap 14 this up in the next 15 minutes or so. It's going to 15 entail skipping over some of these documents. 16 MR. RADCL1FFE: Can we just take two 17 minutes? 18 MR. COON: Sure. 19 THE VIDEOGRAPH ER: We're off the record 20 at 4:56. 21 (A RECESS WAS TAKEN) 22 (EXHIBIT NO. 46 WAS MARKED) 23 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record 24 at 5:08. 25 Q. (BY MR. COON) Mr. Austin, I next have what's Nell McCallum & Associates 35 (Pages 134 to 137) Page 138 1 Exhibit 46. It's VPD-147 dash 131 and 130, and first 2 I want to show you this one. This is April 1, 1982. 3 It's a letter from Mr. Neill at Industry Products 4 Division at Armstrong to Harold North at Victor 5 Products. It's regarding asbestos contents label. 6 And, basically, what they're saying there is that 7 they're going to start putting a warning label on the 8 products o f asbestos materials. 9 Have you seen that document before, sir? 10 A. Yes, I do recall this document. 11 Q. Okay. Now, Mr. North, after he received the 12 document, was apprized that Armstrong was going to 13 start providing this type o f warning on their 14 asbestos-containing gasket materials. He circulated 15 that to a number o f other individuals at Victor 16 Gasket, did he not? 17 MS. BLAZEK: I'm sorry. I couldn't 18 hear the first part o f your question. 19 MR. COON: Oh. 20 MS. BLAZEK: Could you repeat it? 21 Q. (BY MR. COON) After Mr. North received this 22 correspondence from Mr. N eill in which he was 23 apprised that Armstrong was going to put this type o f 24 warning on their asbestos-containing gasket 25 materials, he circulated this same memo to several Page 140 1 A. Norman. 2 Q. Norman? 3 A. Right. 4 Q. Did you ever see Mr. Norman's response to 5 Harold? 6 A. No, I can't say I did. 7 Q. Okay. First o f all, let me - before we go 8 into his response, did you respond in kind to the 9 memo that Mr. North circulated to you? 10 A. If I did, I have no recollection o f it. 11 Q. Okay. Do you know whether or not any o f the 12 other individuals on the list o f those that that memo 13 was circulated to responded? 14 A. No, I have no way o f knowing that. 15 Q. Okay. But w e apparently did get a response 16 back to Harold from Roger? 17 A. To Harold from Roger, right. 18 Q. And what did Mr. --what did Roger say in 19 response to the memo after Harold circulated a copy 20 to him? 21 A. It says here, "To Harold, I discussed this 22 with D. J. Reda and staff and as it is our intention 23 now not to use any warning" --I guess it's 24 devices -- "therefore, we are not interested in 25 procuring any labels. In the future as further Page 139 1 other individuals at Victor; correct? 2 A. It would appear so, yes. 3 Q. In fact, one o f those was G. Austin, which 4 would probably be you? 5 A. I would almost guarantee that, correct. 6 Q. Were you the only G. Austin at the plant? 7 A. I was the only G. Austin at the plant. 8 Q. And then there was a response on there. 9 Looks like Mr. North says, "I have no idea 10 as to what kind o f action we might wish to take." 11 Am I reading that correct, in his own 12 handwriting? 13 A. Yes, that's true. 14 Q. And can you tell us who it was that this 15 memo was circulated to other than yourself? 16 A. Don Reda, who would have been the plant 17 manager; E. Norman was E. Roger Norman, he was the 18 quality control manager at the time; myself; a 19 gentleman by the name o f Dick Fraske, he was the 20 facilities manager; and Carl Hayden, who we've talked 21 about in the past. 22 (EXHIBIT NO. 47 AS MARKED) 23 Q. Okay. And after that memo was circulated -- 24 we have now Exhibit 47, which is VPD-157-130. Did 25 you ever see Mr. --E. Roger, what's his last name? Page 141 1 government regulations come about, we may have to, 2 but not now," signed, Roger, dated 4-16-82. 3 Q. Do you know why Roger made a decision at 4 that time not to provide any warnings even though 5 other people in the business were? 6 A. No, I have no idea. 7 Q. Did you have any discussions as being one of 8 those that this memo was circulated to with respect 9 to whether or not it would be a good idea to provide 10 such warnings? 11 A. Well, I would have been on Mr. Reda's staff 12 at the time; but I can't honestly say I recall 13 discussions about this. 14 Q. Okay. And as I recall from the last 15 deposition, the first time that Dana actually started 16 providing any types o f warnings on their gasket 17 materials was a couple o f years later, about '84? 18 A. That's --based on my research, that's what 19 I found, right. 20 Q. Okay. And that was based not on a decision 21 by Dana to do so but was by a specific mandate from 22 the customer? 23 MS. BLAZEK; Object to form. 24 Q. (BY MR. COON) Wasn't that a customer saying 25 that, "We won't buy your products unless you put a Nell McCallum & Associates 36 (Pages 138 to 141) Page 142 1 warning on it"? 2 A. Well, there was a customer request that we 3 label our product that contained asbestos. 4 Q. And based on that, Dana acquiesced to that 5 request and put a warning on the product that it sold 6 just to that one customer; correct? 7 A. At that point in time, yes. 8 Q. And eventually some other customers started 9 also requesting that the warning be provided and Dana 10 would accommodate them case by case upon request. Is 11 that kind of how it worked? 12 A. For a period o f time, yes; and then we began 13 to label all product, eventually, that had asbestos 14 content. 15 Q. Okay. Do you know why it was that Dana or 16 Victor waited from '82 when they were aware that 17 other competitors were providing that same type of 18 warning on gasket materials unti 1sometime several 19 years later to voluntarily provide such warnings? 20 MS. BLAZER: Object to form. 21 A. If you're asking me why Dana made the 22 decision, no, I can't speak to that. 23 Q. (BY MR. COON) Did you ever discuss the 24 failure of Dana to provide warnings, when the 25 competitors were doing so, with any of the other Page 144 1 fibers in the products? 2 A. Well, let me correct just one thing. Mv 3 comment was in response to your question if I ever 4 had conversations with other people. That did not 5 specifically relate to this 1982 date because I don't 6 recall whether those conversations took place as a 7 result o f this particular memo or not. 8 0- Were there any concerns that providing a . 9 warning o f some sort would adversely impact sales? 10 A. No, I can't say we ever had any discussions 11 about that. 12 Q. Okay. So, it's your recollection that the 13 discussion you had was that, "We don't need to 14 provide a warning on the products, even though 15 competitors are doing it, because we feel we have a 16 safe product"? 17 A. 1don't know that competitors were doing it. 18 Q. Well, 1 thought the Armstrong memo there 19 said that that's a - was Armstrong a competitor? It 20 talks about their gasket materials there Maybe 1 21 missed something? 22 MS. BLAZER: Competitor or supplier? 23 A. Well, Armstrong was a supplier to us. 24 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. So, when it talks about 25 their gasket materials, they're just talking about ; Page 143 1 management at Dana? 2 A. Did I personally have conversations in 3 regard to it? 4 Q. Yes. 5 A. Yes, I did. 6 Q. What were the nature o f those conversations? 7 A. Discussions were usually o f a nature that 8 talked about whether there was significant concern 9 over asbestos and we didn't feel that we were 10 producing an unsafe product. We didn't feel that 11 exposure to an end user would have been significant 12 exposure. 13 There were regulations in place under OSHA 14 for the fabrication, and we were exceeding --1 say 15 "exceeding." We were meeting those standards or 16 doing better than those recommended standards in all 17 cases; and it was our feeling that any casual 18 exposure that a consumer would have to the product 19 would certainly be significantly less than was being 20 brought to the people in the facility. So, we didn't 21 feel there was a need for a labeling. 22 Q. And, again, at this time, in 1982, when that 23 decision was made, what test, if any, had Dana ever 24 conducted on the products to determine its 25 health-related risk as it related to the asbestos Page 145 1 the materials that were being supplied to you to i 2 formulate your gaskets? 3 A. That's the way I've read this letter, yes. 4 Q. Okay'. So, the warnings they're providing 5 are warnings that were provided to Dana for the 6 asbestos gasket material that you used or that Victor 7 used to make the gaskets? 8 A. It would have been the facing materials that 9 we used in Chicago to combine to the core materials. 10 Q. Okay. And y'all did not - y'all made a 11 conscious decision not to take the warning that was 12 provided to you and carry it forward to the people 13 that you sold that same product to? 14 MS. BLAZER: Object to form. 15 MR. SPEZ1ALI: Yeah, 1 object. There's 16 a big distinction, and 1just don't think it's fair. 17 1mean, I don't know if I should state it in front of 18 the witness because 1know you have certain rules; 19 but I'm just going to object in that it's a 20 misleading statement with respect to suggest that 21 what Armstrong was doing somehow equates to what Dana 22 was doing with respect to its product. It's just not 23 fair. It's totally - totally wrong. It's not the 24 same thing. 25 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. Well, !'m not trying to Nell McCallum & Associates 37 (Pages 142 to 145) Page 146 1 misstate the record, sir. What I'm seeing in these 2 documents from your repository, indicating that 3 Armstrong advised Dana that they were putting a 4 warning label on the product. 5 And as I understand from your testimony, the 6 product they're talking about is one that Dana bought 7 to make their gaskets that were forwarded on to your OO customers. Am I mistaken in that? 9 A. It appears from this letter that it 10 addressed the facing materials that we purchased from 11 Armstrong that we would have secured to our 12 perforated core to make gasket material, if that's 13 your question. 14 Q. Yes, sir. So, Armstrong would have had the 15 label or warning that it describes there in the 16 content o f that letter; and that warning would have 17 been on the product that was received by Dana that 18 they then used to make their gaskets. Am I correct 19 in that? 20 A. That's correct. 21 Q. Okay. And, so, then you would take that 22 same asbestos product that you received from 23 Armstrong with that warning and then resell the 24 product in its final form as a completed gasket to 25 your various customers? Page 148 1 1 manager. 2 Q. Okay. It was discussed with the plant ; 3 manager and their staff? 4 A. And -- f 5 Q. And what they're talking about discussing is i 6 the warning that Armstrong was providing on the ; 7 product now? f 8 A. Well -- and I guess, Mr. Coon, all I can say ! 9 to you is I don't recall this specific discussion. I j 10 can only tell you what it says at the bottom o f the !; 11 memo. j 12 Q. Okay. 1 13 A. And I read -- j 14 Q. Okay. j 15 A. You know, I read that to you and for the | 16 record, before. | 17 Q. And you're aware, as I understood from your 18 testimony from the last deposition, that Dana did not 19 provide any warning on any o f their end products that 20 went to their customers until 1984? 21 A. That's correct, to the best o f my knowledge. 22 Q. To the best o f your knowledge, okay. 23 So, it's fair to say, then, that based on 24 what you see in the response to the memo that j 25 Mr. North circulated was that there was a decision j Page 147 1 A. We would bind that to a steel carrier and 2 then turn it into a finished product, yes. 3 Q. In that process, there was a decision made 4 not to carry forward with the same warning that 5 Armstrong provided on the product to you when - - 1 6 say "you" -- to Dana, when Dana then finished the 7 product and sold it to their various customers? 8 MR. SPEZIALI: And that's my objection. 9 I won't make another speech, but I object. I think 10 that that's a leap o f faith that does not come from 11 what you're trying to draw. I know what you're 12 trying to do, and it's -- 13 Q. (BY MR. COON) I'm not trying to play 14 semantic games with you, Mr. Austin. If there's 15 something I'm missing, you're more than w elcom e to 16 clarify it with me. From what the response to the 17 memo said there, as I understand it correctly, was 18 that there was a decision made by Dana not to put 19 that same type o f warning on your product when you 20 sold it to the customers. 21 Did I misunderstand the comments? 22 A. I can -- I can only speak to what Roger 23 stated here, it was Don Reda and sta ff-- 24 Q. And who was Mr. Reda at that time? 25 A. --that w as discussed. He was the plant i Page 149 | 1 made by Dana not to provide a warning on the product j 2 lines after this memo was circulated? 1 3 MR. SPEZIALI: And objection. Let me 4 just clarify; "There was a decision not to provide 5 what Armstrong was doing on a product that was being ; 6 sold to us --for us," and that's why I object. j 7 A. (BY MR. COON) I'm still missing something, j 8 but I think we'll just go forward. 1 9 (EXHIBIT NO. 48 WAS MARKED) 10 Q. (BY MR. COON) Mr. Austin, we've got another 11 document here. I don't need to go into the specifics 12 with you, but I did want to get some clarification on 13 a couple o f matters here. This is Exhibit 48. It's j 14 dated August 6th, '82, from Mr. North. This one to 1 15 Mr. Norman Hollingsworth --well, it's regarding \ 16 Hollingsworth & Vose. It's to Mr. Norman. 17 Do you recall who the --the memo talks i 18 about Hollingsworth & Vose being the second largest j 19 supplier o f the facing materials that you've been j 20 telling us about today. This is as circa 1982. j 21 Who was your primary supplier in 1982? Was j 22 that still Armstrong? 1 23 A. I can't be absolutely certain, but I would j 24 anticipate that that was the case. j 25 Q. Okay. Do you know if you were still j 1 Nell McCallum & Associates 38 (Pages 146 to 149) Page 150 1 continuing to receive gasket facing material from GAF 2 at that time? 3 A. No, I really don't. 4 (EXHIBIT NO. 49 WAS MARKED) 5 Q. 1want to briefly talk to you about this 6 one, then. This is Exhibit 49, VPD-157-2252 and 7 2253, dated August 2, 1984. And Ijust wanted to get 8 some understanding from you about the product lines 9 that were available on asbestos-free content by that 10 date. 11 Okay. There's a cover memo there, and I 12 think there's a chart on the second page that lists 13 each o f the product lines and what the comparable 14 asbestos-free product line was. So, if we were to 15 look at that chart --if we looked in the second 16 column, that's the names o f the products you were 17 telling us about earlier --Victopac --and it lists 18 the No. "1," "6 ," "14," "18." 19 What do each o f those numbers mean on the 20 end? Is that a gauging? 21 A. No, it was a particular formula o f Victopac. 22 Q. Okay. And then it lists -- about in the 23 middle there was an Asbestopac 232. 24 A. Right. 25 Q. And we talked about that earlier, and 1 was Page 152 1 nonasbestos committee. 2 A. Uh-huh. 3 Q. Are you familiar with a nonasbestos 4 committee at Dana? 5 A. Well, nonasbestos committee within Victor 6 Reinz or - . 7 Q. Yes. 8 A. --or Victor Products? 9 Q. Yes, sir. 10 A. There was --there was a group in the 11 facility or in the division, 1believe, that we 12 called "the asbestos." 13 Q. Did you ever participate in the nonasbestos 14 committee? 15 A. 1believe 1 did. 1really don't have a 16 clear recollection o f it. 17 Q. Do you recall anything about what your role 18 was on that committee? 19 A. It would have been in the manufacturing 20 setting o f one sort or another. 21 Q. Do you recall the goals of that committee. 22 if there were any? 23 A. No, I really don't. Seems to me it was 24 during the time when we were looking to convert away 25 from asbestos-containing materials. Page 151 1 thinking that we weren't able to identify for sure 2 the manufacturer o f that product. 3 A. Yeah, and I believe I said that I didn't 4 know whether that was a product we had made. 1 5 thought that it was a product that we had purchased. 6 Q. Okay. Does anything about that letter 7 clarify that issue for you? 8 A. No, I really --it really doesn't. 9 Q. Do you know if you purchased that from 10 som eone else and rebranded it? 11 A. No, I don't. 12 Q. Who would we go to to find out more about 13 that particular product line? 14 A. Probably Jim Ulrich would be a good source, 15 the gentleman who wrote the cover letter. 16 Q. Do you know what that one was used for, the 17 Asbestopac or Asbestoprene? 18 MS. BLAZEK: 232? 19 Q. (BY MR. COON) Yeah, 232. 20 A. Yeah, Asbestopac 232,1 just don't have a 21 recollection o f that. I think we talked - well, the 22 only one - the only material here that we didn't 23 talk about was Solicor. 24 Q. We looked at a number o f other documents in 25 the repository, and they started talking about a Page 153 1 (EXHIBIT NO. 50 WAS MARKED) 2 Q. Okay. I next have Exhibit 50, which, I 3 think, is similar to the documents that you had in 4 your possession at the last deposition. 5 MR. RADCLIFFE: Is this Exhibit 25, the 6 same thing? 7 MR. COON: Is that the same thing? 8 MR. RADCLIFFE: I believe so. 9 MR. COON: 1 have a pretty voluminous 10 production, but I won't need to go back over it if 11 it's the same one. 12 I tell you what, let's --we can look 13 at that. I've just got a couple o f more minutes 14 here. 15 If you can go just compare those. Is 16 that it? 17 MR. THOM AS: It appears that way, yes. 18 it is. 19 MR. COON: Okay. Is that one VP'd? 20 MR. THOMAS: Yes. 21 MR. COON: Okay. This does not have a 22 VPD date. 23 MS. BLAZEK: Right. 24 MR. RADCLIFFE: We'll agree with you 25 that -- Nell McCallum & Associates 39 (Pages 150 to 153) Page 154 1 MR. COON: But if we just agree it's 2 VPD-146-2851, 2852; and we'll go ahead and attach it 3 to this Exhibit 50 here, it appears to be the same 4 document, but we can corroborate. It appears to be 5 the same document that is Plaintiffs' 25 in Depo 1. 6 Okay. Well, let's go on to VPD-143-739 7 through 742. 8 (EXHIBIT NO. 51 WAS MARKED) 9 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. Mr. Austin, we next 10 have Exhibit V PD -143 dash 739 through 42,1 believe, 11 a "List o f Concerns by Engineering People." Have you 12 seen that document before? 13 A. Give me a moment to review it. 14 Q. Sure. 15 A. (Reviewing document) 16 MR. THOMAS: We need to change the 17 tape. 18 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're o ff the record 19 at 5:29. 20 (BRIEF RECESS) 21 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the 22 beginning o f Tape 3. We're back on the record at a 23 5:30. 24 Q. (BY MR. COON) Are we ready to proceed? 25 Mr. Austin, have you seen that document before? Page 156 1 A. I would expect that that's correct, yes. 2 Q. Now, who actually wrote in the answers? 3 A. I have no way of being sure. The note at 4 the top was signed by Tom Staab, but I have no idea 5 whether or not he wrote in the answers. 6 Q. Okay. If it looks at - there are issues, 7 at the time, o f asbestos. I think there were a 8 couple of them. What was in response to addressing 9 the No. 14, "The asbestos issue must be resolved"? 10 A. "Pass liability on to customers who use 11 asbestos," is the penciled in remark. 12 Q. Do you have - do you know anything about 13 what would have been called indemnity agreements? 14 A. No, 1 don't. 15 Q. Do you know whether or not there were any 16 attempts by Dana to get the customers that were still 17 using asbestos gaskets that were buying asbestos 18 gaskets from you to provide any type o f protections 19 to Dana in the event o f any litigation as a result o f 20 exposure to those products? 21 A. No, I don't. 22 Q. Who would be a person that would know more 23 about those types of issues? 24 A. Would have been a commercial issue. Sales 25 department would be a more knowledgeable source, I Page 155 1 A. No, 1can't say that 1really recall it. 2 Q. Can you tell us what it is? 3 A. Well, 1can tell you what it appears to be; 4 and it appears to be a list o f concerns by the 5 engineering people in different areas o f the division 6 or plant. 7 Q. Okay. And what is the handwritten 8 information at the top there? Can you identify any 9 o f that? 10 A. The note says, "John, possible solutions are 11 in pencil," signed Tom S., which is Tom Staab. 12 Q. Who is Tom Staab? 13 A. Tom Staab worked in the engineering group 14 as --he was a materials development engineer. 15 Q. And in that document, there are apparently a 16 litany o f what were described as division concerns; 17 and there was statements and then some short answers 18 in pencil, apparently? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And it talks, generally, about just a number 21 o f typical plant headaches, about unproductive 22 meetings, what to do about them, what to do about 23 backups and key positions, and then there's 24 apparently some short answers by an individual on how 25 to address those different issues? Page 157 1 would think. 2 Q. And it's marked up E.C., 3 -8 -8 5 ,1presume, 3 March, 85. Do you know who E. C. was? 4 A. No, 1 can't say 1 do. Those are reference 5 initials down there. Is that -- 6 (EXHIBIT NO. 52 WAS MARKED) 7 Q. The next one we have is Exhibit 52. It's a 8 similar type o f form. It's "Quality Control 9 Concerns" again. This one's dated in handwriting up 10 at the top, I believe, April, 1985. Did I read that 11 correctly? 12 A. That's correct. 13 Q. It's V P D -109 dash 451, and there are a list 14 o f items for that agenda as well; correct? 15 MS. BLAZEK: Object, form. 16 A. It appears to be - it's labeled "Quality 17 Control Concerns," and it lists a number o f issues. 18 Q. (BY MR. COON) Were these formatted for a 19 response by the individual or were these part o f 20 typical divisional meetings, if you know? 21 A. I really don't recall what would have 22 generated these. 23 Q. If we go to the - 1 think the first page it 24 talks about division issues and then manufacturing 25 issues. If w e can go, maybe, to the second page -- Nell McCallum & Associates 40 (Pages 154 to 157) Page 158 1 in fact, 1 may have to see it real briefly to point 2 out some specific issues 1want to address with you. 3 A. (Tendering) 4 Q. Here we go. This is the fourth page. This 5 Is VPD-109 dash 454, the fourth page. This is under 6 the "Material Control Concerns." And it talks - 7 first, No. 5 and No. 6,1 want to call your attention 8 to those. It talks first about, under Point 5, 9 "What's happening concerning the asbestos lawsuits?" 10 Were you ever involved in the discussion 11 with management regarding any lawsuits that Dana was 12 involved in as a result o f claims o f exposure to 13 asbestos contained in their product lines? 14 MS. BLAZEK: And 1object. No. 1, 15 any - 16 Have you ever seen the document before? 17 THE WITNESS: 1don't recall these 18 documents, no. 19 MS. BLAZEK: Okay. So, it's 20 foundational to the extent that he's never seen this 21 document. We would object to any questions along 22 that line. 23 And then, No. 2, 1 think that your 24 question is overly broad and potentially could 25 include matters that are privileged -- Page 160 1 claims had been filed? 2 A. No, 1really had no idea whatsoever. 3 Q. Do you know if they went back prior to 1980 4 or not? 5 A. No, I really don't. 6 Q. The second topic. No. 6 , it says, "Why do we 7 continue to design and sell asbestos products?" 8 Did I reread that correctly7 9 MS. BLAZEK: The second'.' 10 MR. COON: No, I'm sorry -- 11 THE WITNESS: The sixth. 12 MR. COON: - the sixth, the second one 13 1 wanted to discuss with him. 14 Q. (BY MR. COON) Was that ever an issue that . 15 was broached in your department since y'all were 16 involved in that? 17 A. We weren't really involved in the design or 18 the sale o f asbestos product. 19 Q. Was that an issue that was ever broached ; 20 with you in management, is why those product lines 21 were continuing to be manufactured by the 22 mid-Eighties? : 23 A. No, I can't say that we ever really had any 24 specific discussions, that I can recall, about that. : 25 We were aware that there were efforts in place to ' Page 159 1 MR. COON: Okay. Y ea h - 2 MS. BLAZEK: - and I'll ask you to 3 rephrase. 4 MR. COON: -- I'll refine the question. 5 I won't ask - 6 Q. (BY MR. COON) And, sir, I don't want you to 7 answer any questions that involve meeting with 8 lawyers for Victor or Dana, okay? 9 A. Okay. 10 Q. But going back to the Eighties, let me first 11 ask you: When were you first aware of any lawsuits 12 that had been filed against Dana's Victor Gasket 13 Division or Dana as the parent to Victor Gaskets 14 alleging asbestos-related injuries from working 15 around or being exposed to products manufactured or 16 distributed by your company? 17 A. I would say the first --the first firsthand 18 knowledge I had would have come when I moved into the 19 plant manager role. So, that would have been 20 probably about 1990. 21 Q. Were you aware at that time that claims had 22 preexisted that date? 23 A. I was aware that there had been other suits. 24 previous suits, yes. 25 Q. Did you have any idea as to when those first Page 161 : 1 move away from asbestos, but I don't recall any ' 2 specific discussions about it. 3 Q. Did you get involved in or were you aware of 4 Victor's involvement in an organization designed to 5 work with government agencies, like the E.P.A., to , 6 effect a ban on gaskets made out o f asbestos? 7 A. Organizations to effect a ban of gaskets 8 made out of asbestos? 1 know that there was some 9 work at the division level in an attempt to move out 10 o f asbestos. Exactly what organization and --I 11 guess I don't know what you mean by "organization." 12 Q. Okay. Well, did you hear o f an organization 13 called the Asbestos-Free Gasket Group? ' 14 A. 1know -- 1know the name. 1 15 Q. Were you ever associated with that 16 organization? 17 A. No, I was not. 18 Q. Are you aware of Dana or the Victor Product 19 Division's role or involvement in that organization? 20 A. No, I was never close enough to that to be 21 aware of it. 22 Q. Did you know whether or not Dana or Victor 23 Product Division ever had any representatives in that 24 organization? 25 A. I can't answer that. I don't know. Nell McCallum & Associates 41 (Pages 158 to 161) Page 162 1 Q. Are you aware o f any lobbying efforts by 2 Dana or the Victor Product D ivision with any o f the 3 government regulatory agencies, like the E.P.A. in 4 the late Eighties, to assist in creating a de facto 5 or a total ban on asbestos-containing gasket 6 materials? 7 A. I recall some discussions about the fact 8 that some gas- --that the gasket companies were 9 interested in getting a ban on asbestos. - 10 Q. Do you recall which gasket companies were 11 involved in these meetings to work with the 12 government to effect a ban? 13 A. I know that Fel-Pro was involved in them, 14 and that's really the only other one that 1 had heard 15 any discussions about. 16 Q. Do you know whether or not Garlock was 17 involved in that? 18 A. N o, I don't. 19 Q. Do you know whether or not Anchor Packing 20 was involved in that? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Flexitallic? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Okay. 25 MR. SPEZIALI: Could I ask for point o f Page 164 1 wasn't the type o f conversations people would have ; 2 had with me. 3 Q. Okay. Did it strike you as something kind 4 of odd, that one o f your main product lines was 5 something that your company wanted to quit making and 6 have the government force them to quit making? j 7 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 8 A. I guess 1 always looked at it as we were } 9 producing product that - or working on producing 10 materials without asbestos and that to reverse our 11 position at that point in time would be an illogical 12 thing to do. 13 Q. (BY MR. COON) Okay. Well, in fact, you had 14 asbestos-free gasket materials as substitutes for the $ 15 ones that you had that had asbestos in it by the late 16 Eighties, didn't you? 17 A. Yeah, earlier than the late Eighties. 18 Q. Yeah. , 19 A. By the mid-Eighties, in many cases. 20 Q. Yeah. So, essentially, anything that a 21 manufacturer wanted, you could provide to them in its 22 asbestos composition or in its asbestos-free 23 composition? 24 A. 1 guess -- 25 MR. SPEZIALI: Just for time frame, Page 163 1 clarification? You said "the other one." Besides 2 Fel-Pro, who's the other one? 3 THE WITNESS: Dana had some interest in 4 it. 5 MR. SPEZIALI: All right. 6 Q. (BY MR. COON) Who was the point person at 7 Dana on that subject matter? 8 A. I would have anticipated it would have been 9 the general manager or the chief engineer. 10 Q. Okay. Did you ever have any discussions 11 with anyone up there about why there would be 12 attempts for a gasket company that manufactured 13 asbestos gaskets to work with a government agency to 14 ban a product they made? 15 A. I never had any discussions with them. I 16 wouldn't know. 17 Q. Was there any discussion about Dana's 18 motivations or intents in trying to ban the products 19 that they manufactured at their facilities? 20 A. There were no discussions with me or at my 21 level, no. 22 Q. Did you ever have any understanding about 23 why they would try to do that? 24 A. We really weren't close to that. I was, you 25 know, an area manager at that point in time; and it Page 165 1 otherwise it's going to seem -- 2 Q. (BY MR. COON) Yeah, we're talking about late 3 Eighties when this organization is working with the 4 E.P.A. 5 A. After June 30th o f 1988, we didn't have any 6 asbestos-containing materials; so -- 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. - at that point in time, the answer to your 9 question is, yes. 10 Q. Okay. And why did Dana quit making 11 asbestos-containing materials on that date? 12 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. 13 A. The customers had been putting off the 14 switch. We had been moving towards trying to get out 15 of the asbestos business for a period in time. 16 Our general manager at that point in time, 17 basically, drew a line in the sand and said that, "As 18 of this date, we will no longer be utilizing asbestos 19 in our products." 20 Q. (BY MR. COON) And the reason for that was 21 what? 22 A. Well, I don't know what the general 23 manager's thinking was. All I know is that we were 24 told that, "As o f this date, we were to cease 25 manufacture o f any materials that contained Nell McCallum & Associates 42 (Pages 162 to 165) Page 166 1 asbestos." 2 Q. Okay. Were there liability concerns? 3 A. I can't answer that. I really don't know 4 Q. Were you aware o f --were you aware o f the 5 lawsuits that had been preexisting Dana's decision to 6 go asbestos free? Correct? 7 A. Uh-huh. 8 Q. Were you ever involved in the discussional 9 process with other people in management about where 10 Dana was heading with their efforts to provide an 11 asbestos-free product? 12 A. By "other management," are you talking about 13 my peers? 14 Q. Sure, your peer group or even your 15 superiors. 16 A. Sure, we had discussions about moving away 17 from asbestos and desirability o f moving away from 18 asbestos. 19 Q. Yeah, there was just a lot o f baggage that 20 came with making the products with asbestos in them? 21 A. True. 22 Q. And the preference would be to make the 23 products asbestos free so that you didn't have that 24 same baggage? 25 A. That seems like a logical conclusion, yes. Page 16S 1 at 5:43. 2 (A RECESS WAS TAKEN) 3 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record 4 at 5:48. 5 Q. (BY MR. COON) Mr. Austin, we've been at this 6 for several hours now, sir, and we've covered a lot 7 of ground. In reflection, based on the questions 8 that you've been asked, is there something that you . 9 feel you needed to clarify more now, thinking back? 10 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form. You're 11 asking him to remember all questions all day? 12 Q. (BY MR. COON) Well, no, I realize there's 13 been a lot o f questions. I'm just saying: Is there 14 something sticking in your mind that you say, "Well, . 15 I really would like to tell them this or that," to ; 16 clarify some matter that you had told us about s 17 earlier? ; 18 A. 1 guess the only - the only thing I would ' 19 like to say is that we, in the plants, have always ! 20 felt that we have made a quality product, that the ; 21 product was functionally good, and it did not offer j 22 any risk to the end users; and we have felt that way i 23 since I started working for the company. ; 24 We're a very safety conscious company. ; 25 We've always tried to address any issues that have Page 167 1 Q. But the asbestos-free products sometimes 2 cost more? 3 A. Yes, that's true. 4 Q. And there were some manufacturers, for 5 whatever reason, still preferred, for some reason, 6 the asbestos gasket? 7 A. I can't speak for other manufacturers. 8 Q. Okay. It would certainly be easier if the 9 government just wouldn't let anybody else sell 10 gaskets cheaper than your asbestos-free gaskets. 11 wouldn't it? 12 A. Are you asking me to draw a conclusion, or 13 are you - 14 Q. Well, are you -- 15 A. - asking me if that was the thinking? 16 Q. Sure. Was it the thinking? 17 A. I have no idea. 18 Q. Was Dana expressing any concern that if they 19 were asbestos free, that other companies that still 20 made the products with asbestos and could do so 21 cheaper would be able to undercut the market? 22 A. I really have no idea. 23 MR. COON: Let's go o ff the record a 24 minute. 25 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're o ff the record Page 169 j 1 come up. The labeling o f product is issues that we i 2 felt we acted totally responsible for, and we don't ; 3 feel that the product that we produced ran any risk ( 4 for any encf user. , 5 MR. COON: Nothing personal. I'll 6 object to the response. ) 7 Q. (BY MR. COON) Let me rephrase: What I'm 8 asking you, sir: Is there something that you needed : 9 to clarify now that was not --was something that 10 would --is there something you need to say now that 11 did not, in retrospect when you gave me your original 12 answer, properly clarify what you were intending to 13 say? ; 14 MS. BLAZEK: I think that's what he ' 15 just did. 16 MR. COON: Well, it was a nice little 17 soliloquy on being a good plant manager and loyal to 18 his company. 19 Q. (BY MR. COON) We understand your loyalty to 20 the company. I'm just asking you, sir, if there was 21 something you needed to say to make a previous 22 partial answer complete? 23 MS. BLAZEK: Object to form again, if 24 you're asking him to try to recollect questions. 25 Q. (BY MR. COON) I'mjust saying if there was Nell McCallum & Associates 43 (Pages 166 to 169) Page 170 something that stuck in your mind, that you said, "I 2 really needed to tell them something else about 3 this," as opposed to how you feel about everything. 4 MR. COON: I didn't ask him about how 5 he feels about everything. I'm sure he loves his 6 company. 7 A. No, nothing sticks in my mind, if that's 8 your question. 9 Q. (BY MR. COON) That was the question. 10 MR. COON: Anybody else? 11 (NO RESPONSE) 12 MR. COON: Thank you, sir. 13 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're off the record 14 at 5:50. 15 (THE DEPOSITION WAS CONCLUDED 5:50 P.M.) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 172 I, GARY AUSTIN, have read the foregoing deposition and hereby affix my signature that same is 2 true and correct, except as noted above. 3 4 5 GARY AUSTIN 6 7 8 THE STATE OF 9 COUNTY OF ) 10 11 Before me, , on this day personally appeared GARY AUSTIN, known to me (or 12 proved to me on the oath o f or through 13 (description o f identity card or other document)) to be the person whose name is subscribed to the foregoing 14 instrument and acknowledged to me that he executed the same for the purposes and consideration therein 15 expressed. 16 (Seal) Given under my hand and seal o f office this day o f , . 17 18 19 NOTARY PUBLIC IN AND FOR THE STATE OF 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 171 1 ERRATA SHEET 2 DEPOSITION OF: GARY AUSTIN 3 MAY 20, 2002 4 PAGE LINE CHANGE REASON 5 6 7 8 9 1110 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2210 22 23 24 25 Signature: Date: Page 173 CAUSE NO. B-150.374-AK WILLIAM L. COTTON, ET AL ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF ) VS. ) JEFFERSON COUNTY, TEXAS ' ) A.P. GREEN REFRACTORIES ) COMPANY, ET AL ) 60TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT CAUSE NO. B-150,374-AM ZORA BELL COLE, ET AL ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF VS. ) JEFFERSON COUNTY, TEXAS PITTSBURGH CORNING, ET AL ) 60TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT 9 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION 10 ORAL VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF GARY AUSTIN 11 MAY 20,2002 12 I, Janie P. Trapp, Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 in and for the State of Texas, hereby certify to the 14 following: 15 That the witness, GARY AUSTIN, was duly sworn by 16 the officer and that the transcript of the deposition 17 is a true record of the testimony given by the 18 witness; 19 That the deposition transcript was submitted 20 on , 2002, to the witness or to the 21 attorney for the w itness for ex am in atio n , signature, 22 and return to the offices of Nell McCallum & 23 Associates, Inc., by , 2002; 24 That the amount of time used by each party at 25 the deposition is as follows; Nell McCallum & Associates 44 (Pages 170 to 173) Page 174 1 MR. BRENT COON - 3 hours, 41 minutes, 2 That pursuant to information given to the 3 deposition officer at the time said testimony was 4 taken, the following includes all parties of record: 5 FOR PLAINTIFFS: MR. BRENT W. COON 6 SBOT: 04769750 MR. JOHN R. THOMAS 7 SBOT: 19856400 MR. MARX L. HAYES 8 SBOT: 00793921 Brent Coon & Associates 9 3550 Fannin Street Beaumont, Texas 77706 10 - and 11 MR. KEN WILSON 12 Ness. Motley, Loadholt, Richardson. Poole 28 Bridgeside Boulevard 13 Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina 29464 14 FOR DEFENDANT - DANA CORPORATION, AMCHEM CORPORATION. CERTAINTEED CORPORATION. MAREMONT. 15 C-E. THURSTON, and UNION CARBIDE: MS. PAULA H. BLAZEK 16 SBOT: 09383600 Gemter, Bemsen & Gertz 17 550 Fannin, 7th Floor Beaumont, Texas 77701 18 FOR DEFENDANT DANA: 19 MR. R. THOMAS RADCL1FFE, JR. Church, Loker, Radcliffe & Silver, P A 20 2 North Charles Street, Suile 600 - B&O Building Baltimore, Maryland 21201 21 - and 22 MR. DAVID A. SPEZIAL1 23 Speziali, Greenwald & Hawkins P. O. Box 1787 24 37 Oak Ridge Drive Voorhees, New Jersey 08043 25 Page I7(i 1 FOR DEFENDANT CLEAVER-BROOKS: MS. MICHELLE D. FULLER 2 SBOT: 24032211 Sam mons & Parker 3 11200 W estheimer, Suite 520 Houston, Texas 77042 4 5 I further certify that 1 am neither counsel for, 6 related to. nor em ployed by any o f the parties in the 7 action in w hich this pro ceed in g w as taken, and 8 further that I am not financially or otherw ise 9 interested in the o u tco m e o f this action. 10 Further certification requirem ents pursuant to 11 Rule 203 o f T R C P w ill be co m p lied w ith after they 12 have occurred. 13 Certified to bv me this 22nd dav o f Mav. 2002. 14 ' ' 15 16 JA N IE P. T R A P P , T ex as C SR 6789 17 Expiration Date: 12/31/2003 Nell M cCallum & A ssociates, Inc. 18 2615 C alder, S u ite 111 Beaumont, Texas 77702 19 (409)838-0333/FAX (409)832-4501 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 FOR DEFENDANTS FLUOR and MISSISSIPPI CHEMICAL: MR. PRESTON D. HUTSON 2 SBOT: 00796806 Adams & Coffey, P.C. 3 Petroleum Tower 550 Fannin, Suite 800 4 Beaumont, Texas 77701 5 FOR DEFENDANT BROWN & ROOT: MS. ANGELA S. WH1TTENBERG 6 GODWIN GRUBER, P.C. Renaissance Tower 7 1201 Elm Street. Suite 1700 Dallas, Texas 75270 8 FOR DEFENDANT BIRD, INCORPORATED: 9 MR. BRIAN S. CLARY SBOT: 04325100 10 Brian S. Clary & Associates 402 Staitti 11 Humble, Texas 77338 12 FOR DEFENDANT BORG-WARNER CORPORATION: MR. MARK VANCLEAVE 13 SBOT: 24008197 The Baker Law Firm 14 12600 Featherwood. Suite 225 Houston. Texas 77034 15 FOR DEFENDANT 3-M: 16 MR. KEVIN D. DIDWAY SBOT: 00787364 17 Tekell, Book, Matthews, Limmer, I..L.P. 1221 McKinney, Suite 4300 18 Houston, Texas 77010 i 9 FOR DEFENDANT U.S. STEEL: MR. DAVID M. MINCES 20 SBOT: 24026880 Munisterri, Sprott, Rigby, Newsom & Robbins, APC 21 3323 Richmond Avenue, Suite A Houston, Texas 77098 22 FOR DEFENDANT QUIGLEY: 23 MR. STEPHEN McCLEERY SBOT: 00794258 24 Powers & Frost. L.L.P. 2600 Two Houston Center, 909 Fannin 25 Houston, Texas 77010 Page 175 Page 177 1 CAUSE NO. B-150,374-AK 2 WILLIAM L. COTTON, ET AL ) IN THF. DISTRICT COURT OF 3 VS. ) (JEFFERSON COUNTY, TEXAS ) 4 A.P. GREEN REFRACTORIES I COMPANY. ET AL ) 60TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT 5 CAUSE NO. B-150,374-AM 6 ZORA BELL COLE. ET AL ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF 7 VS. ) (JEFFERSON COUNTY. TEXAS 8 ) PITTSBURGH CORNING, ET AL ) 60TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT 9 10 FURTHER CERTIFICATION UNDER RULE 203 TRCP 11 12 The original deposition was/was not returned to 13 the deposition officer on ; 14 If returned, the attached Changes and Signature 15 page(s) contain(s) any changes and the reasons 16 therefor: 17 lfretumed, the original deposition was 18 delivered to MR. BRENT COON, Cuslodial Attorney; 19 That$ is the deposition officer's 20 charges to the Plaintiffs for preparing the original 21 deposition transcript and any copies of exhibits; 22 That the deposition was delivered in accordance 23 with Rule 203.3, and that a copy of this certificate 24 was served on all parties shown herein and filed with 25 the Clerk. Nell McCallum & Associates 45 (Pages 174 to 177) Page 178 1 Certified to by me this day of , 2 2002. 3 4 JANIE P. TRAPP, Texas CSR 6789 5 Expiration Date: 12/31/2003 Nell McCallum & Associates, Inc. 6 2615 Calder, Suite 111 Beaumont, Texas 77702 7 (409)838-0333/FAX(409)832-4501 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Nell McCallum & Associates 46 (Page 178) Page 1 ' "' A able 39:14,20 40:4,6,7 86:8 132:9,18 134:2 151:1 167:21 abnormal 106:21 abnormalities 107:19 abnormality 106:25 above-styled 1:18 absolute 98:24 absolutely 149:23 AC 65:6 acceptable 27:25 28:10 access 106:17 accommodate 142:10 account 67:22,22 accounting 75:20 accounts 37:16 43:3,4 64:10 65:13 67:9,11 acknowledge 12:20 acknowledged 172:14 acquiesced 142:4 acquired 13:17 49:22 57:10 58:16 59:10 77:17 113:17 acquisition 24:24 53:6 75:20 77:10,18 97:3 acted 169:2 acting 90:22 action 139:10 176:7,9 activate 30:17 actual 29:4 33:9 38:24 41:9 55:1 63:12 67:21 69:19 85:8 105:9 acutally 124:3 134:18 Adams 3:3 175:2 add 121:18 addition 65:11 additional 13:24 21:10 29:23 85:22 89:7 96:23 124:7 address 10:15 84:13 155:25 158:2 168:25 addressed 26:16 90:11 97:21 104:6,12 114:12 146:10 addresses 105:12 136:19 addressing 83:18 97:23 156:8 adequate 122:1 adhering 33:8 adversely 144:9 advertising 63:24 advise 52:25 advised 146:3 affect 89:16 136:24 affix 172:1 aftermarket 37:15 43:3 65:10 67:9,12,13,22 68:8,18,19,22 69:10 69:12,13,18,20,21 afternoon 9:13,14,25 agencies 161:5 162:3 agency 163:13 agenda 80:11 82:8,9 157:14 ago 9:17 15:15 76:2 93:17 118:2 agree 134:8,11,12 153:24 154:1 agreement 51:4,13 agreements 41:9 59:19 156:13 ahead 70:13 154:2 aid 121:25 aided 45:10 air 27:21 28:1,12 82:10 82:15 83:25 91:13 120:12,15 126:16 airborne 14:11 22:3 84:24 88:7 101:4 AL 1:2,4,6,8 173:2,4,6 173:8 177:2,4,6,8 alleging 159:14 allow 60:10 120:14 allowed 62:6 alternatives 133:1 AMCHEM 2:12 174:14 Amended 5:13 American 24:6 25:21 amount 14:11 30:9 43:2 88:7 96:1 1 98:10 117:14 119:20 130:22 131:3,1 1,13 131:18,23 132:6,16 173:24 amounts 98:2 116:8 121:14 analysis 22:22 analyst 21:23 Anchor 162:19 Andrae4:12 Andy 79:18 ANGELA 3:6 175:5 Ann 69:21 announcement 136:12 annual 92:19 102:2 104:12 106:22 answer 23:6 58:20,22 86:11 88:9 99:25 159:7 161:25 165:8 166:3 169:12,22 answered 53:24 57:1 58:19 answering 57:2 answers 57:4 155:17 155:24 156:2,5 anticipate 40:7 51:25 78:25 108:5 149:24 anticipated 30:10 96:1 163:8 anybody 125:10 167:9 170:10 anymore 132:19 anyway 103:13 apart 45:12 APC 3:23 175:20 apparatus 27:13 30:4 120:12 apparent 124:6 apparently 26:17,24 95:25 97:21 105:10 116:14 140:15 155:15,18,24 appear 96:12 139:2 Appearances 5:3 appeared 52:13 133:14 172:11 appears 18:11,14,20 24:15 26:6 73:24 77:3 82:8 88:13 89:1098:18 109:11 109:13 125:19,24 146:9 153:17 154:3,4 155:3,4 157:16 application 39:19,20 41:7 42:8,10,19 43:16 67:25 99:4 applications 46:4,9,14 75:7 128:12 applied 36:19 Appreciate 9:15 apprised 138:23 apprized 138:12 appropriate 51:18 100:2 April 7:2,4 70:10 73:14 76:1,21 138:2 157:10 Arbor 69:21 archived 15:1,3 56:4,8 56:8 archives 14:23,23 area 14:9 15:10,13,13 15:16,17,20,21 16:19 21:24 22:1 45:12 66:7 85:18 88:8 92:8 125:4 127:13 134:19 136:25 163:25 areas 11:14,17 15:3 30:6 50:5 85:20 91:22 122:15 135:10 155:5 argumentative 124:18 arms 66:5 Armstrong 33:16 38:22 74:16,16,21 96:19 97:20,23 112:25 138:4,12,23 144:18,19,23 145:21 146:3,11,14,23 147:5 148:6 149:5,22 article 126:7 Asbestopac 5:20 36:17 70:19 71:8,18 72:4 72:16,17 150:23 151:17,20 Asbestopacs 72:15 Asbestoprene 36:16 151:17 asbestos 5:18 11:20,24 13:3,11 14:1,3,5,18 14:24 16:3 18:17 19:17,23 20:2,6.17 21:11 22:4 27:3,25 28:9,11,22 29:4,9,12 33:25 34:3,14,17,25 36:13,23 37:23 38:7 38:9,25 46:6 47:4,16 47:20,21 48:2,5,6 50:11 52:10.15.19 53:6,14.21 54:13,15 54:18,20 55:5 56:14 61:6 80:14 82:10,14 82:18,22 83:4,5.14 83:25 85:3,16.23 86:3,17,20,25 87:12 88:7,7 91:8,13,13 92:17,20 96:3,6.9,11 96:22 98:2,10 100:13 100:17.21,24 101:8 102:5 107:20 109:14 109:15,22 110:19 111:9 112:24 113:15 113:16 114:8.10,23 114:23 115:2,6,19,25 116:7 117:2,8,11,14 117:18,18 118:1,21 119:2,4,8,16,16,17 120:5,10,16,25 121:4 121:7,9,9,14 122:3 124:16 126:6,13,14 127:24 128:9,10,12 130:23 131:4 132:1 132:16,19.23 133:2 135:22,23,24 136:3 136:14,24 138:5,8 142:3,13 143:9,25 145:6 146:22 152:12 156:7,9,11,17,17 158:9,13 160:7,18 161:1,6,8,10 162:9 163:13 164:10,15,22 165:15,18 166:1,6,17 166:18,20,23 167:6 167:19,20 asbestosis 116:14,17,22 112117::241119:19 121:16 asbestos-containing 33:21 35:7 58:10 85:2 86:9 127:5,11 128:1 138:14,24 152:25 162:5 165:6 165:11 asbestos-free 35:4 127:2,6,12,20 129:13 129:19 150:9,14 161:13 164:14,22 166:1 1 167:1,10 asbestos-related 159:14 asked 10:5 41:16 42:7 48:1 53:24 58:18 97:14 168:8 asking 95:21 99:25 108:25 134:5 142:21 167:12,15 168:11 169:8,20,24 assemble 65:13 assembled 65:20 assembly 31:11 45:17 45:25 62:22 66:11 67:1 assessments 99:23 assist 162:4 assistance 78:15 assisted 57:2 assisting 77:20 78:19 assists 78:11 associated 11:24 13:2 16:13 23:2 86:1 107:20 108:12 110:9 115:13 118:21 128:15 161:15 Associates 2:7 3:11 173:23 174:8 175:10 176:17 178:5 Association 16:3,7,21 17:1 associations 16:6 assume 25:2 42:9 55:13 76:5 79:2,7 88:21 113:19 130:7 assumed 22:24 atmospheric 98:2 attach 9:8 154:2 attached 25:19 76:19 114:14,16,21 177:14 attaches 125:20 attachment 97:19 115:1 121:7 125:15 128:20 attempt 161:9 attempts 130:21 131:22 156:16 163:12 attend 9:25 attention 35:10 70:18 158:7 attorney 173:21 177:18 attorneys 10:5 Atwood" 98:20 August 7:6,7 113:12 149:14 150:7 Austin 1:12,15 5:5,13 8:7 9:13 10:16,21 11:7,14 18:14 24:10 37:2 47:14 49:2 51:24 52:9 70:17 75:9 80:4 83:2 88:12 90:6 94:21 117:24 124:25 127:1 135:20 137:25 139:3,6,7 147:14 149:10 154:9 154:25 168:5 171:2 172:1,5,1 1 173:10,15 Austin's 10:22 134:25 authenticity 51:14,16 auto 18:5 60:18 67:16 68:10,24 69:1 102:17 automobile 65:20 automotive 18:3 37:21 39:6 40:12 44:20,25 46:17 48:4,17 66:5 69:18,21 availability 129:19 available 52:5 101:2 128:2 150:9 Avenue 3:24 175:21 average 117:13 130:16 130:18 132:10 134:21 awarded 40:25 41:3 Nell McCallum & Associates Page 2 aware 16:23 20:4 23:25 46:1 53:20 54:12 102:1 109:20 113:21 116:19 119:4,12 131:21 132:20 142:16 148:17 159:11,21,23 160:25 161:3,18,21 162:1 166:4,4 awareness 128:10 133:25 awhile 118:2 A.P 1:4 173:4 177:4 B B 5:9 129:2,4 back 13:4 19:5 22:7,9 36:6 44:6 48:16 49:4 63:8 65:23,24 70:7 104:14 107:19 109:21 113:2 115:20 122:8 123:18 124:1 131:10,13 137:23 140:16 153:10 154:22 159:10 160:3 168:3,9 background 13:24 backups 155:23 baggage 166:19,24 bags 120:17,17,17,18 Baker 3:15 175:13 Baltimore 2:20 174:20 ban 161:6,7 162:5,9,12 163:14,18 based 59:15 84:3,4 104:19 141:18,20 142:4 148:23 168:7 basically 47:6 79:11 100:11 104:3,7 118:8 138:6 165:17 basis 105:22 126:25 Bate 25:20 Bates 5:15,16,18,20,22 5:24 6:2,3,6,7,10,12 6:14,15,17,19,21,23 6:24 7:2,4,6,8,10,12 7:13 19:1 25:9 26:3 bear 12:17 beater 25:15 27:2,8 Beaumont 1:23 2:8,16 3:44:15 9:15 174:9 174:17 175:4 176:18 178:6 began 47:10,12 142:12 beginning 31:22 34:24 70:7 154:22 begun 128:5 believe 9:17 12:3 13:5 14:20 17:8 18:8 20:11 25:5,18 28:23 35:13 36:9 39:2 40:3 44:18 45:19 55:7 58:24 59:17 63:18 64:5,8,13,19,25 65:7 65:8 69:4 71:22 74:24 75:19 76:16 79:18 80:15 83:22 84:1 90:8 91:9,14 92:7 94:14,22 96:5,6 98:23 100:22,25 101:23 104:11 107:13 110:16 111:7 117:18 120:24 121:13 126:14 127:18 132:14 133:15 136:6 151:3 152:11,15 153:8 154:10 157:10 BELL 1:6 173:6 177:6 benches 85:11 beneath 96:1 Berggren 108:19 109:13 Bernsen 1:22 2:15 174:16 best 20:3 36:1 38:25 52:4 148:21,22 better 47:22 69:7 79:6 128:12 143:16 big 40:12,21 42:22 46:16 60:12,14,18,18 61:13,17 111:18 145:16 Bill 76:13 bind 147:1 binder 34:18 96:10 bins 100:21 BIRD 3:9 175:8 bit 14:8 20:13 66:9 67:10 119:8 black38:18 45:5,9 122:9 blade 30:15,16,17 blanking 31:10,19 Blazek2:14 8:6 9:4,4 9:10 10:15 11:2 12:5 13:13 14:2,19 18:20 19:4,25 20:21 21:1 28:2,4,18 29:1,6,11 29:17 31:15,25 32:21 33:23 34:15 35:12,21 36:24 37:10,25 39:1 39:17 40:2,13 44:22 46:19 47:18 50:13,23 51:1,7,12,17,21 53:9 53:24 54:9 55:22 56:6,11 58:18,23 61:23 62:15 64:16 66:3 68:14 69:3,23 71:10,13,25 73:13 77:1 78:23 80:16,19 80:22 81:5,22 86:10 86:21 88:23 91:1,4 91:25 94:20 95:13,18 97:9,13,17 99:7 101:22 103:6,9 104:25 109:16,24 110:21 113:5 116:2 117:6,12,20 118:5,23 120:13 122:5 124:17 125:25 126:3 127:22 131:5,25 132:12 133:3 134:4,9,23 135:3 136:7,18,21 138:17,20 141:23 142:20 144:22 145:14 151:18 153:23 157:15 158:14,19 159:2 160:9 164:7 165:12 168:10 169:14,23 174:15 Bleiler 26:7,8,17 block 15:19 45:13 board 15:23 77:14 111:10 Bob 79:9 bona 10:13 Book 3:19 175:17 Borg-Warner 3:13 8:18 175:12 bottom 73:18 84:1 92:15 101:1 130:6 148:10 bought 59:4 146:6 Boulevard 2:11 174:12 Box 2:23 174:23 brand 43:15 61:18 branded 43:12,13 62:1 brands 69:5 break 32:24 69:24 70:1 breathing 102:8 116:7 120:12 121:14 122:2 Brent 2:4,7 8:12 174:1 174:5,8 177:18 Brent's 51:12 Brian 3:10,11 175:9,10 Bridgeside 2:11 174:12 BRIEF 154:20 briefly 31:22 90:24 150:5 158:1 brings 83:10 broached 160:15,19 broad 14:14 158:24 broader 83:12 broken 129:24 brought 21:10 22:21 45:14 108:24 143:20 Brown 3:5 6:24 81:8 175:5 Bud 94:10 Budge 6:2 budget 88:14 89:13 90:2,4 budgetary 88:20 budgets 89:25 building 2:19 15:20 174:20 bulk 66:9 burden 91:8 Burns 49:12,13,15,21 53:3 business 9:23,24 20:15 39:5 40:16 57:20 141:5 165:15 Butler 6:18,24 125:1,1 130:8,9 134:6 buy 66:15,17 68:8 141:25 buying 156:17 B&O 2:19 174:20 B-150,374-AK 1:1 173:1 177:1 B-150,374-AM 1:5 173:5 177:5 C C 2:1 74:10 108:8,8,8,8 157:3 Cadillacs 63:22 Calder 176:18 178:6 calendar 101:3 call 9:7 15:10 32:4,8 38:21 59:18 67:14 70:18 120:11 158:7 called 12:21 16:2 18:6 19:16 52:14 73:15 125:15,21 152:12 156:13 161:13 calling 63:13 calls 115:1 cancer 116:20,23 121:20 capacity 10:23 20:25 21:3 74:14 85:9 capital 6:2 88:13 89:25 90:2 captured 96:6 CARBIDE 2:13 174:15 card 172:13 career 21:23 74:14 Carey 59:16 Carl 74:10 133:10 139:20 Carolina 2:11 174:13 carrier 23:3,9,9,17 147:1 carriers 23:14,23 24:1 24:4 carries 101:5 carry 145:12 147:4 case 62:9 68:15 83:13 84:7 96:5 99:24 106:6 110:11 124:5 130:7 142:10,10 149:24 cases 43:11 62:9 123:17 143:17 164:19 casual 143:17 Caterpillar 110:11 111:19 cause 1:1,5,18 117:11 117:18 119:5 126:14 173:1,5 177:1,5 caused 118:1 causes 117:4 caution 100:20 cc'd 71:5 74:6 cease 165:24 ceilinged 15:21 CELLULAR 41:2 Celotex 96:23 center 4:3 32:10 85:19 86:1 175:24 certain 9:20 10:19 17:20 24:2 39:25,25 41:4 44:9 62:10,16 64:21 81:23 86:3 93:1 96:11 119:5 145:18 149:23 certainly 86:14 143:19 167:8 CERTAINTEED 2:13 174:14 certificate 5:8 177:23 certification 173:9 176:10 177:10 certified 92:9 173:12 176:13 178:1 certify 173:13 176:5 change 56:12 120:4 154:16 171:4 changed 47:5 changeover 127:4 changes 45:22 46:25 98:1 177:14,15 changing 11:23 characteristic 123:5 characteristics 43:7 45:4 charge 79:11 101:13 charges 177:20 Charles 2:19 174:20 Charlie 111:2,14 chart7:8 150:12,15 cheaper 167:10,21 checked 30:5 Chemical 3:1 8:22 175:1 chemicals 19:15 chest 106:8,14,21 Chevrolets 63:21 Chicago 15:7 46:12 55:7 69:15 83:11 101:16,18,20 118:12 125:4 135:1 145:9 chief 90:23 111:8 163:9 chronological 48:13 chronologically 12:23 Chrysler 60:16,23,25 63:3,4,5 64:22,24 65:2 Church 2:19 174:19 circa 149:20 circulated 99:12 126:21,25 138:14,25 139:15,23 140:9,13 140:19 141:8 148:25 149:2 citation 98:19 citations 99:10 103:15 104:3,6,11,21 105:13 Civil 1:24 claims 158:12 159:21 160:1 clarification 38:1 149:12 163:1 clarify 147:16 149:4 151:7 168:9,16 169:9 169:12 C lary3:10,ll 175:9,10 clean 120:15 cleaners 84:17,20 85:9 85:10 120:15 Nell McCallum & Associates clear 83:18 92:23 106:2 118:2 152:16 clearly 116:25 Cleaver-Brooks 4:5 8:24 176:1 Clerk 177:25 Clevite 69:20 close 161:20 163:24 clothes 85:6,15 clothing 85:3 Coast 57:17 coating 38:19 45:5,9 Coffey 3:3 175:2 . COLE 1:6 173:6 177:6 collected 113:8 collection 89:6 collector 86:24 87:15 color 42:16 43:21,25 44:2,4 colors 43:22 column 150:16 combine 32:14 145:9 combined 32:11,14 38:4,5,11 combiners 32:14 combining 32:17 33:3 33:5 come 31:13 36:14 44:9 56:16,25 93:6 117:14 141:1 147:10 159:18 169:1 comes 30:17 136:10 com11i2n:1g 9:15 33:24 comment 144:3 comments 23:12 147:21 commercial 126:13 156:24 committee 21:14 80:6 81:10,13,21 82:2,21 83:4 152:1,4,5,14,18 152:21 common 35:22,24 Communication 6:22 7:6,7,9 comp 23:9 companies 24:3 39:7 60:3 61:1 63:8 112:24 162:8,10 167:19 company 1:4 13:18 22:25 23:8,13 24:7 25:14,22 50:4 56:22 59:1,21,22 60:11,15 71:2,4 78:21 96:23 117:2 132:23 159:16 163:12 164:5 168:23 168:24 169:18,20 170:6 173:4 177:4 company's 60:4,10 comparable 150:13 compare 121:12 153:15 comparison 121:8 compensation 23:3,21 24:1 107:24 competitor 144:19,22 competitors 40:18 42:5 43:8,11 71:24 142:17 142:25 144:15,17 competitor's 73:3 complaints 111:17 complete 4:14 19:3 169:22 completed 146:24 compliance 20:19 21:11,12 86:4,8 89:16 120:20 134:22 complied 99:18 176:11 comply 105:25 132:9 134-14 complying 86:14 component 36:23 47:16 components 42:2 53:17 composition 34:3 35:4 37:23 164:22,23 comprehensive 101:8 102:2 105:15 comprised 34:14 61:8 computerized 1:21 concentration 18:17 27:19,25 28:11 concentrations 101:5 concern47:19 103:3,15 104:4,22 109:22 110:18 143:8 167:18 concerned 10:5 82:22 86:12 110:23 concerning 11:18 14:17,24 18:16 51:18 114:22 124:16 126:5 158:9 concerns 7:11,13 10:2 109:14 128:8,9 132:5 135:4 144:8 154:11 155:4,16 157:9,17 158:6 166:2 CONCLUDED 170:15 conclusion 166:25 167:12 condition 25:15 116:23 conditions 119:13 conducted 21:17 29:15 93:9 106:9 107:17 143:24 configuration 99:9 Confirming 96:15 conformability 47:23 conscious 145:11 168:24 Consider 6:20 consideration 50:11 172:14 considered 79:12 83:9 99:3 110:10 considering 52:18 128:15 construction 42:12 58:6,7 consumer 136:15 143:18 contact 23:12 117:15 contain 14:6 46:6 120:16 contained 11:20 19:14 38:25 39:25 96:9 112:18 121:4 128:19 142:3 158:13 165:25 contain(s) 177:15 content 34:25 38:7 47:4 95:25 96:12 142:14 146:16 150:9 contents 138:5 contest 51:14 99:22 contesting 51:5 continue 86:8 93:5 132:4 160:7 continued 6:1 7:1 98:6 109:22 110:19 continuing 109:14 131:3 132:15 134:24 150:1 160:21 contract 39:23 contracts 40:22,25 41:5,10 103:23 control 7:13 21:24 82:10,15,18,22 83:4 83:5,25 85:23 139:18 157:8,17 158:6 controlled 77:17 conversation 96:15,16 conversations 143:2,6 144:4,6 164:1 convert 152:24 converted 35:14 conveying 95:24 convinced 117:10 118:1 cookie 30:23 Coon 2:4,7 5:6 8:4,9,12 9:6,12 11:1,6,7 12:6 13:22 14:13,21 18:23 19:8,9 20:3,23 21:4 28:3,7,20 29:3,8,14 29:21 31:20 32:18,23 34:2 35:18,22 37:2 37:13 38:10 39:3,21 40:5,17 41:8 44:24 46:22 48:1 49:5,6,8 50:20,25 51:3,16,20 51:23 52:9 54:2,11 54:20 55:24 56:9,12 58:21 59:3 62:3,19 64:18 66:8 68:16 69:6,25 70:9,12,17 71:17 72:3 73:14 77:5 80:21 81:1,9 82:1 86:16,23 88:25 91:7,11 92:5 94:18 94:21 95:17,23 97:18 99:10 102:1 103:13 104:23 105:3,7 109:17 110:1 111:1 113:11 116:6 117:10 117:17,24 118:8,25 119:25 120:19 122:11,22 124:21 126:4 127:25 132:1 132:14 133:10 134:7 134:13 135:2.7 136:10 137:1,13,18 137:25 138:19,21 141:24 142:23 144:24 145:25 147:13 148:8 149:7 149:10 151:19 153:7 153:9,19,21 154:1,9 154:24 157:18 159:1 159:4,6 160:10,12,14 163:6 164:13 165:2 165:20 167:23 168:5 168:12 169:5,7,16,19 169:25 170:4,9,10,12 174:1,5,8 177:18 coordinated 102:22 copied 19:5 122:7,10 copies 18:14 19:2 113:23 177:21 copper 48:10 copy 25:14 50:3 78:9 105:9 109:12 113:11 125:20 140:19 177:23 Corbestos 35:15 36:8 37:6 43:18 44:16 45:2,4,15,19,24 46:1761:8 core32:7,9,10,12,13 33:7,8 46:13 48:24 53:21 145:9 146:12 cork 25:16 27:3 28:7 CORNING 1:8 173:8 177:8 corporate 10:7,18 11:3 11:4,18 12:3,21 14:17 103:24 corporation 2:12,13,13 3:13 10:14,19 13:16 52:21 174:14,14,14 175:12 correct 15:18 25:17,23 26:2 27:7 28:23 39:2 39:7,8 50:6,7,12 53:18 54:23 59:17 60:24 64:2 65:17,19 66:14,18,19,21,22 67:2,7 68:7 71:4 73:25 80:6 82:11 83:21,22 88:18,22 89:9,10 90:9,20 91:14 100:22,25 104:17 108:21 109:2 109:10 114:13 115:22 121:22 125:23,24 126:8 131:16 139:1,5,11 142:6 144:2 146:18 146:20 148:21 156:1 157:12,14 166:6 172:2 correctly 27:4,22 28:3 88:15 147:17 157:11 160:8 correspondence 50:10 74:8 138:22 corroborate 154:4 Page 3 cost 89:9 130:6 167:2 costing 22:1 costs 53:2 88:20 COTTON 1:2 173:2 177:2 counsel 8:4,10 9:9.21 10:16,20 18:24 70:12 94:18 104:23 129:9 176:5 count 97:24,25 98:7 counting 27:12 counts 19:23 22:3 23:5 27:17 29:23 50:5 52:13 91:8,21 COUNTY 1:3,7 172:9 173:3,7 177:3,7 couple 129:10 141:17 149:13 153:13 156:8 course 11:21 13:8 38:8 COURT 1:2,6 173:2,6 177:2,6 cover 10:1 46:5,10 75:10,23 98:16 125:14,17 136:12,18 136:23 150:11 151:15 covered 11:14,21 14:7 14:8 168:6 covering 11:16 coverings 58:13 covers 46:8 Craft 64:15,18,19 create 68:4 created 79:4 creating 79:22 162:4 criteria 43:9 134:2 Cross-Reference 7:8 CSR 1:20 176:16 178:4 cubic 27:21 28:1,12 126:16 current 118:16 133:19 Custodial 177:18 customer 52:22 62:16 65:4,22 66:2 70:19 111:17 141:22,24 142:2,6 customers 62:17 64:9 108:20 109:3,4,8,21 110:13,17 111:18,18 112:1 129:22,23 142:8 146:8,25 147:7 147:20 148:20 156:10,16 165:13 cut 25:9,11 31:2,13,17 44:3 87:3 cuts 30:18 cutter 30:24 cutting 31:5,7 C.E 2:13 174:15 ------------------- D ...... 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15:14 122:6,8 older 14:23 48:15 omitted 123:21 once 13:7 17:17 41:19 61:24 82:20 93:23 135:5 ones 12:23 40:21 164:15 one's 90:7 157:9 open 98:23 operate 30:23 operated 30:14,25 64:15 77:16 operating 92:12 operation 27:20 30:13 31:9,10 33:1,2,3,4,6 operational 28:22 operations 14:12 30:9 30:12 31:18,19 84:21 89:2 opportunity 9:16 10:21 opposed 10:13 60:4 69:2 83:6 122:12 124:7 170:3 opposition 130:5 Oral 1:11,15 5:13 173:10 order 19:6 53:1 105:6 134:14 135:11 ordering 98:11 orders 96:24 organization 16:2 17:6 17:12 67:19 161:4,10 161:11.12,16,19,24 165:3 organizations 15:22 16:5,12,23 161:7 original 61:4 62:1 67:1 169:11 177:12,17,20 OSHA 20:11,19 21:11 21:12 22:13 30:1,3 84:4,8,10 86:4,8,14 86:17 89:3,6,16 90:1 93:5,7,9,12,13,14 94:2 97:24 98:1,5,19 99:10,14,23 100:5,12 101:10 103:1,15 104:2,5,11,20 105:8 105:1 1,13 106:1 119:9 120:20,22 126:5 130:13 131:2 131:22 132:6,15 133:22,25 135:11 143:13 OSHA's 130:21 131:6 133:20 ought 117:22 outcome 176:9 outside 22:20,24 23:23 33:1,12,13 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