Document 4abnJ8057VqXx0gVxjprGOJm1
FILE NAME Cape Asbestos CAPE DATE 1983 Apr 21
DOC CAPE119
DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION Legal - Deposition of John Neil Clarke Legal Tibbs Case Exhibit 17
PL
3216781 | ELECTRONICALY
ELECTRONICALY
ELCTRONIAY 03
STATE OF ILLINOIS
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE ELEVENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT
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COUNTY OF MCLEAN
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LOIS J. THACKER et al
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Plaintiff
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V.
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UNR INDUSTRIES INC et al
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Defendants
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on fe oe 08 00 +e a8 ee :
No. 82 L 49
2023
Oct
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11:39
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AM
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RIC-HLAND
COMON
PLEAS
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Deposition of MR JOHN NEIL CLARKE produced sworn
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CASE 15
and examined the 21st day of April 1983 at the officeosf Messrs
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Linklaters & Paines Barrington House 59-67 Gresham Street
2023CP4001759
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London EC2V 7JA England
,
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Walter H. Clark of 24 Chancery Lane London WC2A ILS
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England acted as Reporter
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3K
TER
ELECTRONICALLY
services to one of our subsidiary companies If I can then
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turn to the case of the Anglo American I think the normal
FELICTRLONEIADLY term that would tend to be used would be associated companies
because they would be gold mines or coal mines in which Anglo -
2023 American or its investment companies had an investment
Oct
interest and retain an investment interest and to which the
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sim 11:39
Anglo American Corporation might supply and normally does
11:39
supply very high level technical services
AM
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Charter Consolidated Services provides services to some
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corporations in which Charter does not own stock
RICHLAND
RICHLAND 11 A Absolutely yes
12 ODO And those you call clients
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A We call those client companies
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14 Then it also provides services to corporations in which
PLEAS
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15 Charter does own stock
16 A Yes
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What do you call those
Client companies or in some cases they would be subsidiary
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companies or in some cases they would be companies in which
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we also had an investment We regard them all as client
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companies The only distinction is whether we have an
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investment or whether we don't
In terms of the provision
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A. CLARK
REPORTER
And the difference between a subsidiary and a company in which|: Fs
you have an investment is in terms of stock ownership or some other quantitative difference What is the difference The position of subsidiary is purely the distinction when the shareholding interest exceeds 50.01 per cent
ne. 13 +
Do in
you know which it
if Anglo American provides has no ownership interest
services
to
ELCTRONIALY corporations
POLAK At the present time
FILED
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A I can't speak for the present time because I have no direct
or intimate knowledge During the period when I had 2023 knowledge
when I was in Johannesburg I can't immediately think of an 18
instance where it supplied services to a company in which it 1 :39
did not have an investment interest
That does not mean to
AM
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say that there was not one merely that I have no knowledge of
RIGHLAND 10
it
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MR WALKER You are a member of the board of Cape Industries
COMON 12
am at the current time yes
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Q How long have you been In other words when did you first
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start
PLEAS
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A I joined the board of Cape Industries early in 1980
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Q And have you been on it ever since
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A I have
18| Q Are you on the board of any of its subsidiaries
19 A I am not 2023CP401759
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Q Have you ever been
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A I have not
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REPORTER x.
Q How did it come to be that you are on the board of Cape A When I became managing director of Charter in 1979 Cape was
Charter's largest industrial subsidiary company and I had relatively little knowledge of its business I thought as
chief executive of Charter I should know and understand the
business as best I can it was an important investment interest for Charter and I talked to the chairman of Cape
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1. CLARK
BEPORTER
ELECTRONICAL Y
ELECTRONICALY
about this and he in fact suggested that I should join the
board of Cape and then I would be able to see at first hand
EFLCITRLONIEADY what the business of the company was about as a executive
director -
Who was the chairman of the board of Cape
2023.
Oct The chairman of the board of Cape at that time was Lionel
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Stopford Sackville If I may I would like just to correct
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my previous answer because I had assumed I think it was
AM
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only in May 1980 that Geoffrey Higham became the chairman of
Cape but in fact the person I talked to was Geoffrey Higham RICHLAND.COM N
who was the managing director of Cape My former colleague
RICHLAND.COMMON
RICHLAND.COM N Lionel Stopford Sackville was about to retire from the chair
So which part of your answer did you correct then PLEAS
PLEAS A The part I would like to correct is I think I said I talked
to the chairman of Cape In fact I talked to Geoffrey
Higham who was the managing director of Cape and who I knew
would take over as the chairman of Cape
How did you know that
It was known that Lionel Stopford Sackville would retire from
RICHLAND.OM
the chairmanship of Cape and I knew from my colleagues who
were on the Cape board that Geoffrey Higham was intended to
take over as the chairman from him
- By whom was Geoffrey Higham intended to take over
A I don't understand the question
You talked to Higham apparently in late 1979 or early 1980
A Just so
Yes
Q And at that time Higham was managing director he was on the
board but he was not chairman of the board is that true
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oa
ELCTRONICALY
CRIT
ELCTRONICALY
RAMOS
That is correct
ELCTRONIAY 2
And you said you learned from your colleagues that it was
intended that when Stopford Sackville retired from the board
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2023 of Cape and therefore ceased being its chairman it was
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intended that Higham would become chairman of the board is
Oct
1:39 that true
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A It was intended that he would become chairman
AM Q And my question is Who intended this
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A The board of Cape Industries
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Q Which members of the board did you learn from that Higham
RICHLAND
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was intended to be the next chairman
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tte,
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wne t,
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COM ON From my charter executive colleagues who were directors of
Cape Industries at that time and also from the other non-
PLEAS
PLEAS executive directors of Cape -
Who were your colleagues at Charter that were on the Cape
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board
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John Richardson and Francis Howard
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Did you personally talk to the other Cape board members before
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you went on the board
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POLAK What about
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MR WALKER About anything
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A No I think not I might well have talked to Messrs Richard-
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son and Howard but not about this specific subject My only
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recollection is discussing it with Geoffrey Higham Did even Higham himself know he was going to be the next chairman of the Cape board
He would have been aware of that
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LARK
PORTE.R.
Did he tell you that
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ELECTRONICAL Y
ELCTRONIALY A He did not tell me that
Q So you learned from either Richardson or Howard that the boarELCTRONICALY
ELECTRONICALLY
of Cape -- strike that You learned in late 1979 or early
FILED 1980 from either Richardson or Howard or both that the board -
of directors of Cape intended that Geoffrey Higham would be 2023 the
Oct next chairman of the board after Stopford Sackville stopped
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1 :39 serving as chairman is that correct
11:39
A Correct May I just give you an understanding of this which AM
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might assist you
RICHLAND Q You may
A I would have returned to become managing director of Charter
COMMON
I would be aware because it was known to me that Lionel
COMON
Stopford Sackville was retiring as chairman of Cape As
COMON
managing director of Charter I had to make an assessment of PLEAS
all of Charter's investment positions I would have said to CASE
Messrs Richardson and Howard Now I understand that Lionel CASE
is retiring as the chairman of Cape Who is going to succeed |
him They would say to me It has been discussed
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Geoffrey Higham is the person who is going to take over
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At that time was Higham a Charter employee
A He was not a Charter employee
He was a executive
director
-A executive director of Charter or Cape
A A executive director of Charter
Q He is currently a Charter employee is that correct
A He is an executive director of Charter He is employed by
H
Charter Consolidated Services In fact he is on a contract
of secondment from Cape Industries
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os,
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CLARK SPORTER
ELECTRONICALLY
Is that a written contract
It is an exchange of letters which amounts to a written
ELCTRONIALY
contract
FILED
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One letter from each company or more than one
2023 It would be one letter from Charter Consolidated Services to
Cape Industries so far as I know Oct I have no knowledge of any
other letters
11:39
AM
Who prepared the letter from Charter to Cape concerning this
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contract of and I know I will butcher the word secondment
RICHLAND Secondment It would have been prepared by the personnel -
consultant of Charter on Charter's behalf
we
And then is there some type of acceptance by Cape
Ce OM ON There would be a letter of acceptance by Cape
PLEAS
PLEAS Have you seen the specific letter as it regards Geoffrey -
Higham
I have seen the specific letter from Charter to Cape I have
203CP41759 not seen to my knowledge the response from Cape
Does the Charter to Cape letter basically set forth all the terms so that you would anticipate that all Cape would have
done is say We acknowledge this situation
The letter from Charter would certainly set out the terms
I can't speak to the acknowledgement from Cape because I
haven't seen it
What I mean is Would you anticipate that about all they would do is accept or reject or do you think they would have said Well we don't like that deal but why don't we do it
under this deal
It would be left to the personnel consultant of Charter If
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