Document 4Qog4Gm5GdDnbqeLaLvzLmekp

1 VOLUME I PAGES: 1 - 241 2 EXHIBITS: 1 - 48 3 STATE OF NEW YORK 4 SUPREME COURT: COUNTY OF ERIE 5 ********************************** 6 EARL W. TREDINNICK, III and KIMBERLY TREDINNICK, his 7 spouse, Plaintiffs, 8 vs. * * * * Index No. * I2008- 10509 * 9 A.W. CHESTERTON COMPANY, et * al., * 10 Defendants. * ********************************** 11 12 13 DEPOSITION OF RILEY POWER, INC. 14 through its designee, MICHAEL SMITH 15 Friday, September 11, 2009 16 Cetrulo & Capone 17 Two Seaport Lane 18 Boston, Massachusetts 19 20 21 DEANNA L. VEINOTTE, RPR, CRR, CCP 22 PRIORITY ONE, A VERITEXT COMPANY 23 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301 Florham Park, NJ 07932 24 (718) 983-1234 (973) 410-1313 (Fax) )rity-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 1 718-983-1234 1 APPEARANCE S 2 3 Representing the Plaintiffs: LIPSITZ & PONTERIO, LLC 4 135 Delaware Avenue, 5th Floor Buffalo, NY 14202 5 BY: KEITH R. VONA, ESQ. JOHN P. COMERFORD, ESQ. 6 (716) 849-0701 (716)849-0708 (Fax) 7 Representing Riley Power, Inc.: DEHAY & ELLISTON, LLP 8 36 South Charles Street, Suite 1300 Baltimore, MD 21201 9 BY: R. THOMAS RADCLIFFE, ESQ. (410) 783-7225 (410) 783-7221 (Fax) 10 and CETRULO & CAPONE 11 2 Seaport Lane, 10th Floor Boston, MA 02210 12 BY: JASON M. SAUL, ESQ. (617) 217-5500 (617) 217-5200 (Fax) 13 and PHILLIPS LYTLE LLP 14 3400 HSBC Center Buffalo, NY 14203 15 BY: JAMES W. WHITCOMB, ESQ. (716) 847-7057 (716) 852-6100 (Fax) 16 Representing Frontier Insulation Contractors, 17 Inc.: GOLDBERG & SEGALLA LLP 18 665 Main Street, Suite 400 Buffalo, NY 14203 19 BY: TONI FRAIN, ESQ. (716) 566-5457 (716) 566-5401 (Fax) 20 Representing Niagara Insulations: 21 COLUCCI & GALLAHER, P.C. 2000 Liberty Building 22 424 Main Street Buffalo, New York 14202-3695 23 BY: RYAN GELLMAN, ESQ. (716) 853-4080 (716) 854-4070 (Fax) 24 1 INDEX 2 WITNESS PAGE 3 4 MICHAEL SMITH 5 Examination by Mr. Vona 9 6 Examination by Mr. Radcliffe 208 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 E X H I B I T S 15 NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE 16 17 1 Notice of Taking Deposition 16 18 2 Deposition dated May 13, 2009 37 19 3 Document dated 6/23/59 50 2 0 4 Document dated 12/11/59 56 21 5 Document dated 3/60 59 22 6 Document titled Contract Material Requisition 61 23 7 Document titled Contract Material 24 Requisition 64 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 8 Document titled Contract Material Requisition 64 9 Document titled Contract Material Requisition 67 10 Document dated 6/23/59 69 11 Document titled Contract Material 71 Requisition 12 Binder 76 13 Document dated 6/23/59 80 14 Document titled Contract Material Requisition 15 Blown-up diagram 81 147 16 Document dated 2/7/46 102 17 Document titled Contract material Requisition 104 18 Reply to Plaintiff's Request for Production and Answers to Interrogatories Directed to Asbestos Defendants 105 19 Document titled Contract Material Requisition 109 20 Document Dated 7/23/46 114 21 Document dated 3/31/47 120 22 Document dated 4/3/47 121 23 Document titled Contract Material Requisition 125 24 Document titled Contract Material Requisition 125 25 Document titled Contract Material Reauisition 125 26 Document titled Contract Material Requisition 125 27 Document titled Contract Material Requisition 127 28 Document dated 3/15/51 131 29 Document dated 11/28/52 132 30 Document dated February 13, 1990 from the Environmental Protection Agency 136 31 Document titled Contract Material Requisition 138 4 5 32 Document titled Contract Material Requisition 140 33 Blown-up diagram 148 34 Document dated3/22/55 148 35 Document dated3/22/55 150 36 Document dated1/12/56 152 37 Blown-up diagram 165 38 Letter dated February 2, 1967 165 39 Document dated July 31, 1951 40 Document titled Section C, 170 Boilers and Equipment 174 41 Document dated10/1/71 175 42 Document dated May 28, 1971 179 43 Letter dated July 22, 1971 183 44 Document titled Contract Price dated 7/18/69 187 45 Letter dated May 7, 1969______ 190 2 (Pages 2 to 5) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 68 1 46 Letter dated March 23, 1970 191 1 MR. COMERFORD: John Comerford, same 2 47 Drawing dated October 15, 1931 197 2 firm. 3 48 Document titled Power 204 3 MR. RADCLIFFE: Tom Radcliffe for 4 4 Riley Power, Inc. 5 Original exhibits returned to Keith Vona with copies distributed to all counsel of record 5 MR. SAUL: Jason Saul from Cetrulo & 6 Capone for Riley Power, Inc. 6 7 MR. WHITCOMB:James Whitcomb, 7 8 Phillips Lytle for Riley Power, Inc. Just 8 9 before we get going, it is standard practice in 9 10 the Eighth Judicial District to reserve all 10 11 objections, except as to form, until trial. I 11 12 assume that's even in the video. I assume 12 13 that's acceptable to all at the table? 13 14 MR. VONA: Yes. 14 15 MS. FRAIN: Toni Frain for Frontier 15 16 Insulation Contractors. 16 17 17 MR. GELLMAN: Ryan Gellman, Colucci & 18 18 Gallagher for Niagara Insulations. 19 19 MR. VONA: Anybody else on the phone? 20 20 (No response.) 21 21 MR. COMERFORD: I just want to put on 22 22 the record that Crane Co. is a defendant in 23 23 this case and they had notice of this 24 24 deposition. 79 1 --------------------------------------------------- 1 ***** 2 PROCEEDINGS 2 MICHAEL SMITH, Deponent, having first been 3 10:04 a.m. 4 --------------------------------------------------- 5 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: My name is Bill 3 satisfactorily identified and duly sworn by the 4 Notary Public, deposes and states as follows: 5 ***** 6 Slater of Veritext. Today's date is September 6 EXAMINATION CONDUCTED 7 11, 2009. The time is approximately 10:04 a.m. 7 BY MR. VONA: 8 This deposition is being held at the offices of 8 Q. Good morning, Mr. Smith. 9 Cetrulo & Capone located at 2 Seaport Lane, 9 A. Good morning. 10 Boston, Massachusetts. 10 Q. As you already heard, my name is Keith 11 The caption in this case is In Re: 11 Vona. I'm from Lipsitz & Ponterio in Buffalo. 12 Eighth Judicial District Asbestos Litigation 12 I have some questions for you today. You and I 13 related to Earl W. Tredinnick, III and Kimberly 13 first met just a few moments ago before we 14 Tredinnick versus A.W. Chesterton Company, et 14 started, right? 15 al. in the Supreme Court, State of New York, 15 A. Yes. 16 County of Erie, Index No. I2008-10509. The 16 Q. Now, you've done these depositions 17 name of the witness is Michael Smith. 17 before, so I don't really feel the need to go 18 At this time the attorneys will 18 through the rules or anything like that. Do 19 identify themselves and the parties they 19 you have any problem with that if we just get 20 represent, after which the court reporter, 20 going? 21 Deanna Veinotte of Veritext, will swear in the 21 A. No. 22 witness and we can proceed. 22 Q. How many depositions have you given in 23 MR. VONA: Keith Vona from Lipsitz & 23 the context of asbestos? 24 Ponterio on behalf of the plaintiffs. 24 A. I believe this is about the 19th one. 3 (Pages 6 to 9) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 10 12 1 Q. All right. And when did you first 1 MR. VONA: It is Tredinnick. 2 start doing that? 2 MR. RADCLIFFE: Sorry. 3 A. About four years ago. 3 MR. VONA: That's fine. 4 Q. Okay. When was your last deposition 4 Q. Do you know if he's alive or dead? 5 with regard to asbestos? 5 A. I don't. 6 A. It was either May or June this year. 6 Q. Okay. Do you know what disease he's 7 Q. Okay. How many have you given this 7 suffering from? 8 year? 8 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 9 A. Depositions or cases? 9 A. According to the information I read in 10 Q. Depositions. 10 the depositions, I believe it was mesothelioma. 11 A. I believe this will be the eighth. 11 Q. Okay. Do you know what he did for a 12 Q. This year? 12 living? 13 A. This year. 13 A. He was a boilermaker for about 30-some 14 Q. Okay. Now, you're appearing on behalf 14 years. 15 of Riley Stoker today, correct? 15 Q. Okay. Do you know what boilermakers 16 A. I'm here to answer questions at the 16 do? 17 request of Riley Stoker attorneys. 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. And are you represented by the 18 Q. What do they do? 19 Riley Stoker attorneys today? 19 A. Essentially, there are two forms: 20 A. I don't know how to answer that. 20 One, in the field boilermakers who work during 21 Q. Okay. 21 the erection and repair of pressure vessels 22 MR. VONA: Mr. Radcliffe, are you 22 under the ASME code; and there's another group 23 representing Mr. Smith today? Is there an 23 that actually works, for instance, in the Riley 24 attorney/client privilege? 24 shop. They're a boilermaker union that do the 11 13 1 MR. RADCLIFFE: There's an 1 actual fabrication of the boiler components. 2 attorney/client privilege between me and Riley 2 Q. Okay. And do you know which type of 3 Power, and to the extent that Mr. Smith is a 3 boilermaker Mr. Tredinnick is? And by the way, 4 designee of Riley Power, that attorney/client 4 he is alive. 5 privilege applies to him. 5 A. Okay. His deposition stated that he 6 MR. VONA: Would you be willing to 6 basically was working in the field in the 7 stipulate that Mr. Smith is appearing as a 7 traditional sense of the boilermaker. 8 corporate representative to Riley Stoker today? 8 Q. To just keep it straight and simple, 9 MR. RADCLIFFE: I'll stipulate that he 9 he worked on boilers as a boilermaker, correct? 10 is appearing in response to your deposition 10 A. Yes. He also testified he worked on 11 notice. 11 other things, too, which was really pipefitter 12 MR. VONA: Okay. Is he the person 12 work I thought, but he did work on boilers. 13 most knowledgeable with regard to Riley Stoker 13 Q. Okay. Now, just preliminarily, the 14 for this deposition? 14 last deposition I read was in May of this year, 15 MR. RADCLIFFE: That is the 15 and at that time you were compensated $100 an 16 designation made by Riley Power, yes. 16 hour. Has that changed at all? 17 MR. VONA: Okay. Thank you. 17 A. No. 18 Q. Mr. Smith, I'd like to ask you a few 18 Q. Nothing for the current times? 19 questions about my client. Do you know my 19 A. No. 20 client's name? 20 Q. Okay. In anticipation for this 21 A. Earl W. Tredinnick, III. 21 deposition, who did you speak to? 22 Q. Close enough. 22 A. The Riley attorneys. 23 MR. RADCLIFFE: How do you pronounce 23 Q. Meaning Mr. Radcliffe? 24 it? 24 A. Jason Saul primarily yesterday and the 4 (Pages 10 to 13) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 14 16 1 day before. 1 A. I heard about it, probably the first 2 Q. Okay. And you mentioned that you read 2 time, about a month ago. 3 Mr. Tredinnick's deposition; is that right? 3 Q. Okay. If you don't mind, could I just 4 A. Yes. 4 take a quick look at your binder? 5 Q. Do you know which volumes you read? 5 A. (Handing binder.) 6 A. I read four. I read -- I believe it 6 Q. Very good. Thank you. 7 was two in October of '08. There's another 7 MR. VONA: Now, I want to have this 8 one, I believe it was called Volume 3, in 8 deposition notice marked as Smith 1. 9 November, followed by a video deposition. 9 (Exhibit 1, Notice of Taking 10 Q. All right. Did you review anything 10 Deposition, so marked.) 11 else in preparation for this case? 11 Q. I want to show you what's been marked 12 A. I reviewed the contract documents for 12 as Smith Exhibit 1. You've seen something like 13 the contracts as I understood it to be an issue 13 this before, I'm assuming, deposition notices? 14 here at the four sites in New York. 14 A. I have seen deposition notices in the 15 Q. Okay. 15 past. 16 MR. RADCLIFFE: We also supplied 16 Q. Have you seen that one? 17 Mr. Smith with some documents related to 17 A. No. 18 DuPont, Bethlehem Steel, and Chevrolet. 18 Q. Okay. Have you ever appeared in a 19 MR. VONA: Are these documents that 19 courtroom for Riley Stoker at trial? 20 were provided to my office? 20 A. On asbestos? 21 MR. RADCLIFFE: I'll provide them to 21 Q. Yes. 22 you right now if you'd like to see them. 22 A. No. 23 MR. VONA: I would have preferred it 23 Q. And just so we're clear, all my 24 before the deposition, but we'll address that 24 questions are going to be related to asbestos 15 17 1 if we get to it. 1 today. Okay? You've never appeared in court 2 MR. WHITCOMB: In response, there was 2 then? 3 no demand for those that I know of, Keith. 3 A. No. 4 MR. VONA: That's fine. 4 Q. Okay. Now, before you came here for 5 MR. WHITCOMB: They're documents that 5 this deposition, what did you do to prepare 6 have previously been produced in this 6 yourself other than look at the documents and 7 litigation. 7 the testimony? Anything else? 8 MR. VONA: Okay. 8 A. Such as? 9 MR. WHITCOMB: And other related 9 Q. I'm asking you. Did you do anything 10 asbestos litigation. 10 else? Did you talk to any employees of Riley 11 MR. VONA: That's fine. 11 prior to coming here? 12 A. I also reviewed portions of my book 12 A. No. 13 that I brought to every deposition that has 13 Q. Okay. Did you talk to anybody besides 14 information that we've accumulated over time. 14 the lawyers? 15 Q. Okay. I believe back in May, unless 15 A. No. 16 the court reporter made a mistake, it was a 16 Q. All right. Did you look at any other 17 blue binder. That one is black; is that right? 17 documents besides the contract documents you 18 A. This is the same binder to the best of 18 alluded to? 19 my knowledge. 19 A. And the -- 20 Q. Okay. Have you added any material 20 Q. And what Mr. Radcliffe said? 21 since May? 21 A. No. 22 A. No. 22 Q. All right. Any other type of research 23 Q. Okay. When did you first hear about 23 that you did? 24 this deposition? 24 A. No other research. 5 (Pages 14 to 17) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 18 20 1 Q. Now, I'll try and shortcut a lot of 2 this stuff because you've been through these 3 depositions before. Are you still 65 years 4 old, or did you have a birthday? 5 A. Yes. No, I'm 65. 6 Q. And you have a bachelor's in civil 7 engineering, correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And also an MBA? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And you are a licensed professional 12 engineer? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And have been since 1972, close? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. All right. You retired from Riley 17 Stoker in 2006; is that right? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And you started with them in 1973 as a 20 boiler design engineer? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. All right. And if you could, just 23 walk the jury through your positions at Riley 24 just briefly. I don't need a lot of detail, 1 there. 2 In 1999 I returned to Riley as 3 director of the aftermarket projects group. 4 And in 2005 I became director of the parts 5 group again until I retired in July of 2006. 6 Q. All right. And I believe you 7 mentioned earlier you've been giving 8 depositions for about four years? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. So would it be accurate that you 11 started giving depositions defending Riley 12 Stoker in the asbestos context before you 13 retired? 14 A. Before full retirement, yes. There 15 was a period of time where I had gone as a 16 contract employee still working for Riley. I 17 was doing special assignments for them and they 18 asked me to take this one on at that time. And 19 I did it, then I went back full-time, and then 20 I left full-time and started this again. 21 Q. Do you recall who approached you first 22 to ask you to appear on behalf of Riley Stoker? 23 A. It was the corporate attorney. 24 Q. For Riley? 19 21 1 but just give them a thumbnail sketch. 1 A. For Riley, yes, in the Riley building. 2 A. Just Riley? 2 Q. In-house guy? 3 Q. Yes, that's fine. 3 A. Yes. 4 A. I started at Riley in 1973 as a boiler 4 Q. And I just want to do a little 5 design engineer. I was in that position 5 background on Riley Stoker. If I misstate 6 approximately two years. Then I became a 6 anything, just let me know. The company itself 7 project engineer, also for Riley, for a year 7 was started in 1913; is that right? 8 and a half to two years, and then progressed to 8 A. Yes. 9 project manager, industrial boiler division for 9 Q. Okay. And it's true that from 1931 to 10 about two years. 10 the present Riley Stoker has been in the 11 Then I became project manager, utility 11 business of designing, fabricating, and selling 12 boiler division for a couple of years. And 12 boilers, correct? 13 then I became manager of the industrial 13 A. As one of its products. 14 construction division for about two, two and a 14 Q. It sells other products, too, as well, 15 half years, and then became a senior project 15 correct? 16 manager in the aftermarket division for a 16 A. Yes. 17 couple of years. 17 Q. Give us an idea of some of those other 18 And then I became vice president of 18 products. 19 Pace Power Constructors in 1985 for about three 19 A. It started off as a stoker, which is a 20 years. And then I returned to Riley as a 20 fuel-burning piece of equipment. 21 director of the pressure parts group. In 1992 21 Q. Hence the name, right? 22 or '3 I became director of the parts group. In 22 A. Yes, but then progressed into many 23 1996 I was reassigned to the Erie facility as 23 different types of stokers, the fuel-burning 24 director of the parts group that was moved out 24 equipment, burners and pulverizers. And that's 6 (Pages 18 to 21) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 22 24 1 when it got into the boiler because that 1 scope of work was all it was about. 2 allowed them to do the whole package. And 2 Q. And let's say from the 1950s through 3 through the years, they continued to do burners 3 the 1980s, would it be true that Riley Stoker 4 as far as their design manufacture. I'm not 4 in addition to selling boilers, they would sell 5 talking about third-party products that they 5 auxiliary equipment by other third-party 6 may incorporate. 6 companies to incorporate into their contract? 7 Q. Sure. 7 A. If it was required by contract, they 8 A. They got into environmental in the 8 would obtain them from the experts because we 9 '80s. That's a separate division, but still... 9 certainly weren't the expert, and they would 10 And then manufacturing, they purchased another 10 incorporate it into the package to the 11 facility in the '60s, the Union Iron Works 11 customer. 12 facility in Erie. 12 Q. What do you mean by Riley wasn't an 13 And they opened up a couple more 13 expert? 14 facilities in Oklahoma and Shreveport, 14 A. We are not an expert at designing 15 Louisiana during the heydays in the '70s. And 15 valves, soot blowers, fans, auxiliary 16 eventually, they were down to just the Erie 16 equipment. That's a specialty onto itself. 17 facility in the '90s. 17 Q. Would you consider Riley an expert in 18 Q. Was it about 1931 when they first 18 designing boilers? 19 started making boilers? 19 A. The ASME boiler code, yes. 20 A. They purchased Baking House Corp. who 20 Q. So just so the record is clear though, 21 had already been making them for quite a while. 21 you'd agree with me that Riley Stoker would be 22 That's how they got into it. It was not their 22 an expert on the products that they designed 23 original new design. They took over an 23 and manufactured and how they went together and 24 existing company and started adding to it. 24 how they worked? 23 25 1 Q. Does Riley Stoker still make boilers 1 A. I'm struggling with it because we were 2 today? 2 an expert on what we designed and manufactured. 3 A. Yes, if they could sell them, they 3 Q. Okay. 4 could. 4 A. And sent out there. A lot of 5 Q. Okay. You mentioned, as you were 5 customers incorporate other components into 6 giving the description of the equipment, the 6 that to complete that work. We were not an 7 whole package. Are you referring to the 7 expert. We'd say this is what we need. We 8 steam-generating unit where it's not just a 8 want a black-and-white 4-inch square thing, and 9 boiler, it's additional auxiliary equipment 9 they would design and give us state-of-the-art 10 that is supplied to, like, a powerhouse? 10 4-inch thing that they wanted to give us, and 11 And I know you went into this before a 11 we would buy it on a competitive basis. 12 little bit, but can you explain to me what you 12 Q. Okay. But as you just said, the 13 meant by whole package, how is that? 13 products that Riley Stoker designed and 14 A. We were just selling the fuel-burning 14 manufactured and put out there, they're an 15 stuff attached to the boiler. By adding the 15 expert in that, correct? 16 boiler to it, we could then integrate the two 16 A. Yes, ASME boiler code, yes. 17 of them. It was still not the whole 17 Q. Now, you and I know this already, but 18 steam-generating unit because there's a lot of 18 just for the jury, can you just tell them what 19 other stuff. 19 a boiler is, what it does? 20 Q. Turbines? 20 A. A boiler essentially is -- in the 21 A. That would be the whole powerhouse, 21 simplest vernacular is a tea kettle where you 22 but there's the boiler island, turbine island, 22 heat water and make steam. The steam is then 23 auxiliaries to balance the plant, things like 23 used for a variety of different purposes. 24 that, but basically it was just expanding our 24 Q. All right. That's actually a good 7 (Pages 22 to 25) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 26 28 1 description. Thank you. 1 there were several different sizes. 2 How big, historically, were the 2 Q. You can give me the range, that's 3 boilers that Riley Stoker manufactured? How 3 fine. 4 big were they? Can you give me a range? 4 A. There were -- the largest one was 5 MR. RADCLIFFE: I object to the 5 something about 75 feet high, 37 feet deep and 6 compound. 6 31 feet wide. I think the smallest was 7 Q. Riley Stoker made boilers, yes? 7 probably about 35 feet high, 32 deep, and 17 8 A. Yes. 8 wide. 9 Q. Can you just give me a size range, 9 Q. All right. And those are industrial 10 smallest to biggest? 10 boilers? 11 A. They made small packaged boilers that 11 A. Yes. 12 could be 12 feet wide -- you know, 12, 12, 12 12 Q. All right. Could you just walk the 13 might be one, a small packaged boiler. 13 jury through the basic components of a boiler. 14 Q. 12, 12, 12 is in feet? 14 I have a schematic of the one from Bethlehem 15 A. Yes. The small boilers you would see 15 Steel if that would be helpful to you. It's up 16 in a house is not something Riley made. They 16 to you. 17 did not do that. We also had very large 17 A. Almost every boiler is different. 18 utility boilers that are in excess of 200 feet 18 Q. Sure. 19 high, and the dimensions are 80 feet deep, you 19 A. We can do a generic one. If you want 20 know, 40 or 50 feet wide, so very large. 20 to use it, it would probably be helpful. 21 Q. And I'm sorry, what kind of boiler did 21 Q. Are there any components that are 22 you say that was? 22 consistent to all boilers? 23 A. Utility boilers. 23 A. Main steam drum. 24 Q. If you know, would that be the type of 24 Q. Okay. 27 29 1 boiler that Mr. Tredinnick would work on? 1 A. Headers. 2 MR. RADCLIFFE: Objection. Calls for 2 Q. Okay. 3 speculation. 3 A. You have to have water walls. Some 4 A. I don't know. 4 boilers have two drums. Some have three. Some 5 Q. Well, you read his testimony, correct? 5 of the old ones had three drums. Some had 6 A. Yes, I did. 6 boiler banks, which is another compilation of 7 Q. And you've looked through the 7 tubes. Some have economizers, reheaters, 8 contracts? 8 superheaters. As far as the basic pressure 9 A. Yes. 9 parts and components themselves. 10 Q. Are those utility boilers? 10 Q. And you mentioned before a tea kettle 11 A. No, they were not utility boilers. 11 or tea pot. Boilers get hot, correct, when you 12 Q. And maybe we're mincing words. A 12 operate them? 13 utility boiler, is that something that would 13 A. Boilers have to be hot in order to 14 be, like, at a power plant? 14 operate. 15 A. Like New England Power, Niagara 15 Q. Right. How else are you going to 16 Mohawk, that would be power. 16 create steam, correct? 17 Q. The contracts that you reviewed 17 A. They have to be hot. 18 regarding the boilers Mr. Tredinnick worked on, 18 Q. Riley Stoker incorporates insulation 19 how would you categorize them? What would you 19 in its boilers, true? 20 call them? 20 MR. RADCLIFFE: Objection to form. 21 A. Industrial boilers. 21 A. Riley Stoker by design does not 22 Q. Okay. And can you give us an idea of 22 incorporate -- we don't make the insulation. 23 the size of those boilers? 23 Q. I'm not asking if you made it. I'm 24 A. They were in the range of -- well, 24 just saying it's part of the boiler that they 8 (Pages 26 to 29) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 30 32 1 manufacture and sell; is it not? 1 Riley Stoker incorporated asbestos-containing 2 A. ASME code requires the boilers to do 2 products in their boilers, do you? 3 two things: One, you have to have insulation 3 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 4 to keep the steam in the boiler to make the 4 A. Riley Stoker in that period of time 5 boiler perform; and secondly, you have to have 5 sometime provided insulation from third parties 6 it for personal protection on the outside. 6 on their boiler that might have contained some 7 Q. That's part of my next question. 7 asbestos prior to OSHA. 8 Basically, it's a matter of efficiency and 8 Q. Okay. Did they sell that material to 9 safety, correct? 9 the customers? 10 A. Always safety, yes. 10 A. No. 11 Q. All right. Is safety something that 11 Q. They did not? 12 Riley Stoker is always concerned with, to your 12 A. No. They provided it as part of the 13 knowledge? 13 contract to a customer if required by the 14 A. Every day. 14 customer. 15 Q. Okay. 15 Q. So it's only if the customer required 16 A. Boilers, by nature, are very 16 it? 17 sophisticated pieces of equipment that operate 17 A. Yes. 18 at high temp., high pressure and if you don't 18 Q. Okay. And any other 19 design them to code, manufacture them, erect 19 asbestos-containing component parts to the 20 them, and maintain them properly, they're 20 boilers, the Riley Stoker boilers? 21 dangerous. 21 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 22 Q. You said they're highly technical, so 22 A. The boilers sometimes had gaskets that 23 not just anybody can work on a boiler, correct? 23 might or might not have had asbestos in them. 24 A. I was talking about the design aspect, 24 Q. Okay. 31 33 1 but even working on the boiler, you would have 1 A. There was, for expansion joints, in 2 to be trained. 2 the refractory that sometimes used asbestos 3 Q. Somebody like a boilermaker? 3 rope prior to it being eliminated. There has 4 A. A boilermaker would have to be trained 4 been times they used asbestos millboard. 5 in the different skills that are required. 5 Q. All right. Where would the asbestos 6 Q. Now, that insulation that's 6 gaskets be used -- 7 incorporated into the Riley boiler is 7 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 8 high-temperature insulation, isn't it? 8 Q. -- on the boiler? 9 A. Not necessarily. 9 A. Well, the asbestos-containing gaskets? 10 Q. Okay. Is high-temperature insulation 10 Q. Yes. 11 used in Riley Stoker boilers? 11 A. It depends on the temperature of the 12 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 12 boiler, and they might have used a stainless 13 A. High-temperature insulation is used in 13 steel gasket for handholes and manhole covers. 14 the appropriate places -- 14 Q. Now, a stainless steel gasket, is that 15 Q. Okay. 15 the same as a Flexitallic gasket? 16 A. -- on the boilers. 16 A. No, it's actually pure stainless. 17 Q. Where would those places be? 17 Q. Okay. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to 18 A. The boiler would have to be a 18 interrupt you. 19 higher-temperature boiler. 19 A. If it was low temperature, low 20 Q. Would an industrial boiler be a 20 pressure, it might have been a woven braided 21 high-temp. boiler? 21 gasket, so there was a variety of gaskets that 22 A. Some might be. 22 were used depending on the temperature, 23 Q. Okay. Let me ask you this: You don't 23 pressure, and location on the boiler. 24 dispute that between 1931 and the 1980s that 24 Q. *Okay. And it's true that between 9 (Pages 30 to 33) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 34 36 1 1931 and 1972 that Riley Stoker did incorporate 1 asbestos was used in any of the insulation that 2 high-temperature asbestos-containing insulation 2 was incorporated in their boilers? 3 on some of its boilers? 3 A. The Riley Stoker employees did not 4 MR. RADCLIFFE: Objection to the form. 4 generally know what was in the insulation. 5 A. Can you say that again, please? 5 Q. Okay. You said they did not generally 6 MR. VONA: Can you read it back, 6 know. Did they know something? 7 please? 7 A. I don't know. I did not talk to every 8 (*Testimony read back by 8 one of them. 9 reporter.) 9 Q. It has been your testimony, correct, 10 MR. RADCLIFFE: Same objection. 10 repeatedly, based on your knowledge and people 11 A. On some of the boilers prior to OSHA, 11 you've talked to, that prior to 1972 and OSHA, 12 some of the insulation on the boilers might 12 Riley Stoker had no idea that asbestos was used 13 have contained asbestos. 13 in any of the insulation materials incorporated 14 Q. Okay. And specifically, though, you 14 in their boilers; is that true? 15 know what I mean when I say high-temp. 15 MR. RADCLIFFE: Objection to the form. 16 insulation; do you not? 16 Q. You can answer. 17 A. Yes. 17 A. I don't think I stated it exactly that 18 Q. Okay. Did Riley Stoker between 1931 18 way because I don't know what they knew about 19 and 1972 at times incorporate 19 different materials. 20 asbestos-containing high-temperature block 20 Q. Well, I'm not asking you about 21 insulation in their boilers? 21 everybody that was at Riley Stoker. You're 22 MR. RADCLIFFE: Same objection. 22 appearing today on behalf of Riley Stoker. 23 A. I don't know what ones had asbestos in 23 You're the person that Riley Stoker has 24 them or not. There was high-temp. block 24 designated to appear on their behalf to answer 35 37 1 insulation that didn't have asbestos. 1 these questions. 2 Q. You're probably not hearing my 2 I just want to know what you know, 3 question. I'm just asking you if they did in 3 your personal knowledge, based on people you've 4 some of the boilers? 4 talked to, documents you've looked at, what do 5 A. We incorporated high-temp. block 5 you know about it? 6 insulation. We didn't know what was in the 6 A. I don't know what -- we were not aware 7 insulation. That wasn't our shtick. 7 of potential hazards of the insulation we were 8 Q. So are you telling this jury Riley 8 using. 9 Stoker had no idea what materials were in the 9 Q. I'm not asking about the hazards. I 10 insulation they were using? 10 don't mean to cut you off. I'm asking about 11 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 11 the knowledge -- let me just show you your 12 Q. Well, did they know? 12 prior testimony. That might clear it up. 13 A. The people I've talked to over the 13 This is from your deposition back in 14 years, they did not know what was in the 14 May of 2009, a couple months ago. In fact, we 15 insulation during that period of time. 15 might as well have it marked as Smith 2. 16 Q. All right. And when did they find 16 (Exhibit 2, Deposition dated May 17 out -- when did Riley Stoker find out, to the 17 13, 2009, so marked.) 18 best of your knowledge, that there was asbestos 18 Q. Sir, I'd like to turn your attention 19 in some of the high-temp. insulation? 19 to page 98 of that deposition. 20 A. The information came out to Riley with 20 MR. RADCLIFFE: Can I have a 21 the advent of OSHA in 1972. 21 continuing objection to this procedure? I 22 Q. Okay. So it's your testimony to this 22 don't think it's a proper -- 23 jury that prior to 1972, based on your 23 MR. VONA: To use his prior 24 knowledge, Riley Stoker did not know that 24 deposition? 10 (Pages 34 to 37) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 38 40 1 MR. RADCLIFFE: Yes. 1 MR. VONA: Next time I prefer we 2 MR. VONA: Sure, you can have an 2 probably should go off the record. You know 3 objection to that. 3 speaking objections are not allowed in New 4 MR. RADCLIFFE: Thanks. 4 York. Also, I'd like to know who exactly I'm 5 Q. Are you looking at page 98, sir? 5 dealing with here. Am I dealing with 6 A. Yes. 6 Mr. Radcliffe or am I dealing with you? 7 Q. Actually, first of all, why don't we 7 MR. WHITCOMB: You're dealing with 8 go back to the cover. Okay? 8 Mr. Radcliffe, but I am counsel of record and I 9 A. Okay. 9 am the one who set the parameters of the 10 Q. And the case is titled Susan K. Lenz 10 deposition. I have the knowledge relating to 11 versus Allis-Chalmers Corporation Products 11 the case management order. And I'm -- believe 12 Liability, et al. Do you see that, sir? 12 me, if you want to get the judge on the line to 13 A. Yes. 13 decide whether Mr. Radcliffe is defending or 14 Q. Do you recall giving this deposition 14 I'm defending, that's fine, Keith, and you can 15 in May 2009? 15 certainly edit the tape at any time, but I'm 16 A. Yes. 16 certainly going to object if I think we're 17 Q. Okay. And when you answered the 17 going to sit here and regurgitate his testimony 18 questions in that deposition, did you tell the 18 from Lenz because that's just not going to 19 truth to the best of your ability? 19 happen. 20 A. Yes. 20 MR. VONA: I'm not here to regurgitate 21 Q. You were under oath, correct? 21 his testimony, Jim. I'm here -- if he's not 22 A. Yes, I was. 22 going to concede to a point that he's made in 23 Q. All right. If you could turn back to 23 the past which is completely relevant to this 24 page 98. 24 case -- 39 41 1 A. Yes. 1 MR. WHITCOMB: It is -- 2 Q. And smack in the middle of 98 the 2 MR. VONA: Let me finish. It allows 3 question says, "Okay. Now, it's your testimony 3 us to put the case in context for the jury. I 4 in 2006 was that prior to OSHA, Riley Stoker 4 think it's perfectly okay to do that, and I'm 5 did not have awareness there was asbestos 5 impeaching him on his testimony, that's all. 6 insulation?" And you answered "Yes." Is that 6 MR. RADCLIFFE: I don't think you 7 true? 7 impeached him, but go ahead, let's continue. 8 A. Yes, that's what I said. 8 MR. VONA: That's fine. Are we all 9 Q. You're not here to change that 9 set? 10 testimony, are you? 10 MR. RADCLIFFE: Let's keep going. 11 A. No. 11 Q. So after all that, sir, it is your 12 MR. WHITCOMB: I don't mean to step 12 testimony that prior to 1972, based on your 13 out of line, but to some extent, we are not 13 knowledge, Riley Stoker did not know there was 14 here to go over his prior testimony and I 14 asbestos in the insulation they incorporated in 15 haven't jumped in because I'm allowing a little 15 their boilers, true? 16 leeway because I know you want to get some 16 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 17 background, but if we're going to start going 17 A. This question was OSHA -- Riley Stoker 18 over the corporate knowledge, Keith, we're 18 did not have any awareness there was asbestos 19 going to stop and we're going to call the 19 insulation. That was the question I was 20 judge, okay, because the Eighth Judicial 20 answering, not the one you just asked. 21 District case management order, as well as the 21 Q. What was the difference? 22 letter I sent you in this case, we're here to 22 A. You stated insulation containing 23 talk about the specific sites, so let's get to 23 asbestos. This was asbestos insulation. We 24 the specific sites. 24 never used the term asbestos insulation 11 (Pages 38 to 41) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 42 44 1 anywhere. 1 You don't have the time, first of all. 2 Q. I'm just asking you did Riley Stoker, 2 When you're doing boilers, you're 3 prior to 1972, did they know there was asbestos 3 buying a whole bunch of different components 4 in the insulation they used? 4 from third parties. You're not going to be an 5 A. That's a different question than this. 5 expert in every one. You depend on them to be 6 Q. Did they know there was asbestos 6 the experts and give you the proper product. 7 insulation? 7 Q. Okay. You refer to going down and 8 A. I don't think so. 8 buying a tire, and that's something that you or 9 Q. Did they know that there was asbestos 9 I might go do. We're not experts in cars, are 10 in the insulation that they used? I'm asking 10 we? 11 you that question today then. 11 A. I'm not. 12 A. I don't think so, no. 12 Q. I'm not either. But Riley Stoker is 13 Q. You don't think they did; you're not 13 an expert in boilers, correct? 14 sure? 14 A. In the components they design and 15 MR. RADCLIFFE: It's asked and 15 manufacture. 16 answered. Now you're arguing. 16 Q. Okay. Don't you agree that they 17 A. The follow-up is exactly where I'm 17 should possibly research what materials they're 18 going. If you go to three lines down. 18 using in their boilers that they're selling to 19 Q. That's fine, sir. I'm asking the 19 customers? 20 questions, and I would like an answer to that 20 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 21 question. 21 Q. You don't agree with that? 22 Sitting here today, putting this 22 A. The materials were specified with the 23 aside, did Riley Stoker prior to 1972 know that 23 ASTM standards and this is what we said, we 24 there was asbestos in the insulation they 24 want material to these standards. That was our 43 45 1 incorporated in their boilers? 1 responsibility. That's what we did. 2 A. Not to my knowledge. 2 Q. Okay. And you testified earlier that 3 MR. RADCLIFFE: Objection. Asked and 3 safety was always a priority with Riley; is 4 answered. 4 that right? 5 Q. That's all I'm looking for. Thank 5 A. Absolutely. 6 you. 6 Q. Wouldn't a responsible company who's 7 Mr. Smith, wouldn't you agree that a 7 trying to be safe test their products? 8 responsible company, they should know what 8 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 9 component parts they incorporate in their 9 A. Our products were tested. The boilers 10 products? 10 were tested. 11 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 11 Q. Okay. Did you ever test any of the 12 A. We -- 12 component parts in the boilers? 13 Q. Yes or no? 13 A. Not to my knowledge. 14 MR. RADCLIFFE: Answer it the best 14 Q. Now, you mentioned contracts earlier. 15 that you can, Mr. Smith. 15 And you'd agree with me, sir, that Riley 16 A. We would have knowledge of what we 16 Stoker, under certain contracts, were 17 made what was in the components. If we bought 17 responsible to provide and install 18 something from outside, we relied on those 18 high-temperature insulation on their boilers, 19 experts to give us the product that would do 19 true? 20 the job. We didn't go into them and analyze 20 A. On certain contracts, entirely 21 what they had in the products. 21 possible, yes. 22 It's like me going down and buying a 22 Q. So it's yes? 23 new tire and wanting to know from Michelin what 23 A. Yes. 24 did you put in this tire. You don't do that. 24 Q. Okay. And this occurred prior to 12 (Pages 42 to 45) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 46 48 1 1972? 2 A. Installing high-temp. insulation? 3 Q. Yes. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. Now, in the case where Riley 6 Stoker is responsible under the contract for 7 this insulation, there would be one or two ways 8 how they'd go about providing it, correct? The 9 first would be to either hire an insulation 10 contractor to install it, or they would go to 11 the union hall directly and hire union 12 insulators to do that, correct? 13 A. That is two of the installation 14 possibilities, yes. 15 Q. That's what I'm asking you. Now, in 16 either case Riley Stoker is using insulators 17 from the Asbestos Workers Union, correct? 18 A. I don't know if it's called the 19 asbestos -- we used the insulators. That's 20 what we call the insulators. 21 Q. Sir, you do recall back in May that 22 you did refer to them as the Asbestos Workers 23 Union, correct? 24 A. Yes, I did. 1 block or mineral wool or whatever the 2 configuration was. It's called a generic 3 example of what we wanted. And they would then 4 go out for competitive bids for the material. 5 That was one way. 6 The other way was if we had the 7 material and labor and there was never -- every 8 contract was different for the scope, every 9 single one. If labor was included, another way 10 we might do it is to go out and solicit 11 insulation companies to supply and erect the 12 insulation. 13 Q. All right. If it's under the contract 14 that Riley is providing the insulation, they're 15 obtaining that and having the asbestos workers 16 install it, correct? 17 A. That was one version. 18 Q. Yes. 19 A. The other one was where they provide 20 it themselves. 21 Q. Sure. I understand that. That's 22 fine. 23 A. Okay. 24 Q. Now, I want to get into some of the 47 49 1 Q. As far as you know, they were always 1 documents specific to this case. And you 2 called the Asbestos Workers Union, correct? 2 reviewed those documents, you already testified 3 A. There was a context there where the 3 to that; is that correct? Do you know that 4 asbestos workers came out. I always knew they 4 they were Bates Tredinnick, basically, 1 5 were called the asbestos workers. They were 5 through 1542? Do you know that? 6 the insulators. 6 A. I don't know the range. 7 Q. Right. And I mean, do you think that 7 Q. It's about 1500 pages or so? 8 maybe Riley Stoker might have suspected that 8 A. They're sitting right there. 9 asbestos insulation was being used by these 9 Q. Did you look through all of them? 10 contractors? 10 A. Yes, I did. 11 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 11 Q. Okay. Me, too. 12 A. I don't know. 12 MR. VONA: Mr. Radcliffe, can I have a 13 Q. Well, Riley Stoker provided that 13 stipulation that those documents are authentic 14 material for them, didn't they? 14 business records that were provided to my 15 A. No, the third parties -- well, once 15 office, or Mr. Whitcomb? 16 again, there's two different ways of doing 16 MR. RADCLIFFE: Well, they're 17 that. 17 certainly authentic. 18 Q. Yes. 18 MR. VONA: Are they business records? 19 A. If it was required in our contract -- 19 MR. RADCLIFFE: They were created by 20 Q. That's what I'm speaking to. I'm 20 Riley Stoker in the ordinary course of its 21 sorry. 21 business. 22 A. There was two ways of doing it. One, 22 MR. VONA: So they're business 23 we could go out to -- we could define what we 23 records? 24 wanted by the generic. We want high-temp. 24 MR. RADCLIFFE: They were factually 13 (Pages 46 to 49) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 50 52 1 created by Riley Stoker in the ordinary course 2 of its business. If you're asking me to 3 stipulate that they're -- in exception to the 4 rule against hearsay, that's a legal 5 determination. 6 MR. VONA: You'd stipulate that 7 they're admissible at the time of trial, 8 wouldn't you? 9 MR. RADCLIFFE: No, I'll stipulate 10 that factually they were created by Riley 11 Stoker in its ordinary course of business and 12 maintained by Riley Stoker. 13 Q. Okay. The first document I want you 14 to take a look at is -- 15 MR. VONA: We'll mark this as Smith 16 No. 3. 17 (Exhibit 3, Document dated 18 6/23/59, so marked.) 19 Q. Okay. Do you have Smith No. 3? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Do you recognize that document? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. That's something you looked at? 24 A. Yes. 1 Q. Does the B stand for boiler, do you 2 know? 3 A. I believe the designation was 4 Badenhausen. 5 Q. Okay. And the name of the job and 6 location is Bethlehem Steel Corp., Buffalo, New 7 York, correct? 8 A. Yes, Lackawanna plant. 9 Q. And under equipment furnished, I see 10 boiler -- well, basically, let me back up. 11 There's some letter designations, C and P, 12 correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. C means contractor, true? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And contractor in this case would be 17 Riley Stoker? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And P would be purchaser, meaning Beth 20 Steel? 21 A. Or their designee contractor. 22 Q. Okay. Now, I won't go through the 23 whole list of everything that's provided here 24 by Riley Stoker, but I do want to point out 51 53 1 Q. You looked at that? 1 they did supply the insulation on this 2 A. Yes. 2 contract, correct? 3 Q. And basically, is that like the cover 3 A. Yes. 4 page to the contract for Bethlehem Steel from 4 Q. All right. And they supplied the 5 1959? 5 superheater, the gas ducts and air ducts, too; 6 A. It's the first page of the contract 6 is that true? 7 summary, which is basically the summary of all 7 A. Yes. 8 the interchanges between Bethlehem Steel and 8 Q. Okay. Are the superheater, gas ducts 9 Riley Stoker. 9 and air ducts, are those insulated? 10 Q. Okay. And just preliminarily, I want 10 A. The superheater, no. 11 to try to keep this simple, but you've 11 Q. Any part of the superheater insulated? 12 testified about this before, Riley Stoker has a 12 A. The superheater header extended 13 number of documents that they maintain with 13 outside the boiler. You might have -- the end 14 regard to their boilers, true? 14 of a superheater header might have to be 15 A. Yes. 15 insulated, but the superheater by definition is 16 Q. Okay. But those documents don't 16 a pressure part that needs to be right inside 17 encompass all the documents that were created 17 the boiler to pick up the steam. 18 for each of those boilers as well, correct? 18 Q. So a certain part of the superheater 19 Sometimes there's stuff that's not in there 19 would be insulated though, true? 20 that's discarded later on, correct? 20 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 21 A. Yes. 21 A. If the header was outside, like I 22 Q. All right. Now, this is dated June 22 said. 23 23, 1959, Contract No. B-2430, correct? 23 Q. Gas ducts and air ducts, would they be 24 A. Yes. 24 insulated? 14 (Pages 50 to 53) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 54 56 1 A. Gas ducts, yes, air ducts, maybe. 1 MR. VONA: Okay. And I apologize, a 2 Q. Okay. What would determine whether 2 lot of these were cut off, and I noticed that 3 they were or weren't? 3 ahead of time, but it was like a day before. 4 A. Temperature. 4 MR. RADCLIFFE: That's fine. I just 5 Q. And when they are insulated, are they 5 want to make sure we know what we're talking 6 insulated with high-temperature block? 6 about. 7 A. It depends on the temperature. 7 MR. VONA: Feel free to let us know. 8 Q. Okay. With regard to this contract, 8 Q. Let me show you -- or mark 4. 9 you've looked through it, correct? 9 (Exhibit 4, Document dated 10 A. Oh, yes. 10 12/11/59, so marked.) 11 Q. All right. These gas ducts and air 11 Q. Mr. Smith, I direct your attention to 12 ducts, were they insulated with high-temp. 12 Exhibit No. 4, and this is also a document from 13 block? 13 that contract from Beth Steel, correct? Well, 14 A. That, I don't know. 14 it says up at the top "Beth Steel Corporation." 15 Q. Okay. Even after looking through it, 15 Do you see that? 16 you don't know? 16 A. The contract number is on there, 2430. 17 A. No. 17 Q. Right. I just want to direct your 18 Q. You don't have to look. We'll get to 18 attention real quick to the first -- well, 19 it. Also just real quick on the bottom -- it's 19 first of all, what is this document? 20 still in the middle on that equipment furnished 20 A. This is a contract requisition form. 21 on the far right-hand column at the bottom, it 21 Q. Okay. And on the first line I see 22 says labor and S-U-P-T. Riley obviously 22 "Elliptical manhole gasket Flexitallic, 23 provided the labor on this? 23 quantity 20." Is that right? 24 A. Yes. 24 A. Yes. 55 57 1 Q. And is that superintendent? 1 Q. All right. And you've testified 2 A. Yes. 2 before Flexitallic gaskets were 3 Q. So somebody is supervising the 3 asbestos-containing, true? 4 erection of this boiler? 4 A. I believe they were at that time. 5 A. Yes. 5 Q. My question is this number 20, would 6 Q. And that's a person who works for 6 those be all used on the original installation, 7 Riley Stoker? 7 or were some of those used for replacement? Do 8 A. Yes. 8 you understand? 9 Q. Okay. 9 A. They would be used on the original 10 A. Well, there can be times -- it's not 10 installation. 11 quite that simple because it may be that in 11 Q. And if we look at the top, it says 12 certain areas we subbed out. We're responsible 12 lower side WW. Is that water wall? Does that 13 for it, but we subbed out. 13 stand for water wall? 14 Q. So the superintendent is still being 14 A. Lower side water wall header. 15 paid by Riley Stoker, right? He isn't doing it 15 Q. So just on the lower side water wall 16 for free? 16 header, 20 Flexitallic asbestos-containing 17 A. That's the point. 17 gaskets would be used in the initial 18 Q. But if it says C for contractor, 18 installation? 19 meaning Riley Stoker, that means Riley Stoker 19 A. Yes. 20 provided that person, correct? 20 Q. Now, let me ask you this: Did Riley 21 A. One way or the other. 21 Stoker ever provide or sell or supply 22 Q. Okay. 22 additional asbestos-containing gaskets for 23 MR. RADCLIFFE: I believe that 23 replacement use? 24 document is Bates labeled 693. 24 A. Very rarely. Usually the customers 15 (Pages 54 to 57) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 58 60 1 would get them cheaper somewhere else because 1 Q. So now you know that at some point in 2 they came to us. I ran the parts group. We 2 time Riley Stoker did, in fact, sell 3 had to go out and get them from somewhere else 3 replacement asbestos gaskets? 4 because we didn't make them. 4 A. No. 5 Q. All right. 5 Q. No? 6 A. So often the customers would go get 6 MR. RADCLIFFE: Sorry, I want to 7 their own. 7 object to that prior question. That was 8 Q. But at times would they do that, 8 argumentative. Now go ahead. 9 supply replacement asbestos gaskets? 9 A. This is part of the initial 10 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 10 installation. 11 A. (Nodding.) 11 Q. You'd agree with me, though, sir, that 12 Q. Let me strike that question. I'll 12 duplicate gaskets would be something that's 13 strike the question. 13 used for repair and replacement? 14 What I'm asking you, sir, you've 14 A. No. 15 established these gaskets were from the initial 15 Q. What would they be used for? 16 installation, correct? 16 A. After you erect the boiler, it has to 17 A. Yes. 17 be tested, and certain areas have to be opened. 18 Q. What I'm asking is would Riley Stoker 18 Q. Okay. 19 ever provide additional asbestos-containing 19 A. And this is after you bring it up to 20 gaskets for repair work or replacement work for 20 full pressure, so you cannot reuse the gaskets. 21 later on? Did they ever do that? 21 Q. Understood. 22 MR. RADCLIFFE: Objection to form. 22 A. So after you clean the boiler down, 23 A. I don't know. 23 test it, you've got to put the boiler back 24 Q. You don't know if they did? 24 together before it can be started up, and this 59 61 1 A. No. Running the parts group, that was 1 is what these gaskets are used for. 2 something we never sold to customers. 2 Q. So they're used to replace another 3 Q. Okay. Now, if I asked you -- let me 3 gasket, true? 4 skip that one. 4 A. During the initial erection phase. 5 (Exhibit 5, Document dated 3/60, 5 Q. Okay. Did Riley do that on all its 6 so marked.) 6 boiler contracts? 7 Q. Again, this is for the Beth Steel 7 A. Do what? 8 contract, correct? 8 Q. Provide duplicate gaskets for 9 A. Yes. 9 replacement after the initial fire-up? 10 Q. And it's titled duplicate gaskets, 10 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 11 true? 11 A. Well, if they were required. Some of 12 A. Yes. 12 the boilers, all we ever had to replace was the 13 Q. And one number is a little difficult 13 drum gaskets. Some boilers later on didn't 14 to read, but the one below it says 16, and 14 have handholes in the headers. You'd have 15 these are Flexitallic gaskets, correct? 15 blowdown valves or something. I'm not sure. 16 A. Yes. 16 (Exhibit 6, Document titled 17 Q. And we've already agreed they're 17 Contract Material Requisition, so 18 asbestos-containing? 18 marked.) 19 A. At this point in time, this period of 19 Q. Let me know when you're ready. 20 time, they should contain it. 20 A. I'm ready. 21 Q. You can't dispute, it says duplicate 21 Q. This is, again, from the Beth Steel 22 gaskets. Those are replacement gaskets, 22 contract, true? 23 correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 A. Yes. 24 Q. And you mentioned this before that 16 (Pages 58 to 61) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 62 64 1 Riley sometimes incorporated asbestos millboard 1 material, true? 2 in their boilers, correct? 2 A. Yes. 3 A. Yes. 3 Q. All right. 4 Q. And this, in fact, indicates that this 4 (Exhibit 7, Document titled 5 boiler had asbestos millboard, true? 5 Contract Material Requisition, so 6 A. Yes. 6 marked.) 7 Q. Can you tell me what that would be 7 (Exhibit 8, Document titled 8 used for? 8 Contract Material Requisition, so 9 A. Normally, this is used in someplace 9 marked.) 10 where they have wide spacing on the tubes and 10 Q. Let me know when you're all set. 11 they need to create a basis for the refractory 11 A. I'm all set. 12 or insulation coming out. This is a gas and 12 Q. You've had a chance to look at Smith 7 13 oil-fired unit, so somewhere in the 13 and 8, true? 14 installation it's used against boiler tubes 14 A. Yes. 15 normally. 15 Q. They're both documents from the Beth 16 Q. Okay. Would that be interior to the 16 Steel contract; you'd agree with that? 17 boiler? 17 A. Yes. 18 A. Normally exterior. 18 Q. All right. And they're titled -- 7 is 19 Q. So where the tubes are coming out of 19 titled "Applied & Setting Insulation," and 8 is 20 the boiler? I don't really know, that's why 20 titled "Applied Insulation," true? 21 I'm asking. 21 A. Yes. 22 A. It would be external to the tubes of 22 Q. And both of these documents indicate 23 the boiler. 23 certain quantities of Thermotex-B emulsion 24 Q. But it's on the outside of the boiler? 24 weatherproofing; do you see that? 63 65 1 A. Yes. 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. All right. I'm not done with that one 2 Q. In fact, Smith 7, the quantity is 3 yet. If you could take a look at the bottom on 3 32,000 pounds, true? 4 the left-hand corner there, I see Philip Carey. 4 A. Yes. 5 Do you see that? 5 Q. And I'll take a stab at No. 8 looks to 6 A. Yes. 6 me to be 2,000 pounds; does that look about 7 Q. Okay. First of all, what is that area 7 right? 8 used for on these documents, if you know? 8 A. It's pretty weak, but it's around 9 A. That area, I've seen it used to 9 that. 10 designate where the material was purchased. 10 Q. Well, we'll just go with the 32,000. 11 It's not always filled in. Sometimes it is. 11 First of all, where would this material be used 12 Q. Okay. So would it be reasonable to 12 on this boiler? 13 assume that in this instance with regard to 13 A. Actually, this material was not used 14 this document that this asbestos millboard came 14 on this boiler. 15 from Philip Carey? 15 Q. How do you know that? 16 A. That's a reasonable consensus. 16 A. There's another one of these for this 17 Q. Do you know who Philip Carey was? 17 project. The owner changed their mind after 18 A. I've heard the name. I don't know 18 this was done and shipped to this jobsite, and 19 them. 19 this was to be on the external of all the 20 Q. Other than -- well, you'd agree with 20 insulation on the boiler and the ductwork, and 21 me they're a supplier of material at least, 21 they said they wanted the entire boiler covered 22 right, obviously? 22 in 24-gauge steel lagging actually made from 23 A. They have to be, yes. 23 Bethlehem Steel. And this material was then 24 Q. In this case they supplied asbestos 24 disposed of at the jobsite. 17 (Pages 62 to 65) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 66 68 1 Q. What do you mean "disposed of"? 1 2-inch gate valves, correct? 2 A. They got rid of it. It was already at 2 A. Yes. 3 the jobsite when they changed their mind. 3 Q. And if we look down at the bottom on 4 Q. Did they throw it out? 4 the left where you said -- where it indicates 5 A. Yes. 5 supplier, it says Crane Co., true? 6 Q. Who ate the cost on that, if you know, 6 A. It says Crane Co. 7 from looking at the documents? 7 Q. Okay. Did Riley Stoker in its 8 A. Bethlehem Steel. 8 history, say, from 1931 to 1980, did they 9 Q. Do you have any of those documents 9 supply Crane valves on some of their jobs? 10 handy that I could take a look at that you're 10 A. Well, we have a requisition here they 11 basing this opinion on? 11 did. 12 A. Yes. Are you in Bates stamps? 12 Q. You'd agree with that then? 13 Q. I could look them up. 13 A. We bought them here. 14 MR. WHITCOMB: Do you want to go off 14 Q. Do you know if any asbestos-containing 15 the record? 15 components were used in those valves? 16 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 11:05. 16 A. I do not, no. 17 We're off the record. 17 Q. Now, just generally, I want to ask you 18 (Off the record, 11:05 a.m.) 18 a question, I guess, as an engineer. Are you 19 (Back on the record, 11:12 a.m.) 19 familiar with the 432 quick opening 2-inch gate 20 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record. 20 valve? Do you know what that would be used for 21 The time is 11:12. 21 on a boiler? 22 Q. Mr. Smith, are you ready to continue? 22 A. I don't know. 23 A. Yes. 23 Q. You don't know if it would be 24 Q. We took a little short break. Before 24 insulated or not? 67 69 1 we went off, I was asking you some questions 1 A. I do not know. 2 about Thermotex-B. Do you know what that 2 Q. Could it be insulated possibly? 3 material is? 3 A. A valve could be insulated. 4 A. It's a coating that's put on the 4 Q. Some are, some aren't, right? 5 outside of the insulation in some applications. 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Okay. Did Riley Stoker use 6 (Exhibit 10, Document dated 7 Thermotex-B at any point to your knowledge? 7 6/23/59, so marked.) 8 A. Normally, no. It was a casing or 8 Q. Now, this is also from the contract. 9 lagging outside. In this case it was part of 9 We see the contract number at the top. It's 10 the original contract. 10 dated 1959, true? 11 Q. Did they ever use it, do you know? If 11 A. Yes. 12 you know? 12 Q. It's the B-2430, that's the Bethlehem 13 A. I don't know for sure. 13 Steel contract? 14 Q. Do you know if it was 14 A. That's correct. 15 asbestos-containing? 15 Q. Basically, just tell us what this 16 A. I do not know. 16 document is. 17 (Exhibit 9, Document titled 17 A. This was part of the contract summary 18 Contract Material Requisition, so 18 pages. 19 marked.) 19 Q. Okay. Go ahead. 20 Q. Let me know when you're set. 20 A. Which listed some components for the 21 A. Okay. 21 insulation materials for certain specific 22 Q. And again, this is the Beth Steel 22 services. 23 contract document, and this requisition 23 Q. This is telling us what areas are to 24 indicates six Crane No. 432 quick opening 24 be insulated; would you agree with that? Or 18 (Pages 66 to 69) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 70 72 1 maybe not all of them. Let me strike that 1 A. Yes. 2 question. 2 Q. And then it has an A next to it? 3 This document is telling us, though, 3 A. Right. 4 certain areas that are to be insulated; is that 4 Q. And then B is 4,060 of 2-inch thick 5 true, right? 5 high-temp. block? 6 A. Yes. 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. And if we look, it says, 7 Q. And then C is 2,496 square feet with 8 "Contractor shall furnish for the unit 8 3-inch high-temp. block with a C next to it; I 9 insulation materials for the following surfaces 9 read that right? 10 described below," and I won't go through all of 10 A. Yes. 11 them, but I'd like to point out, it does say 11 Q. This is the insulation that's being 12 "exposed superheater ends and crossover," 12 supplied for applied insulation? 13 correct? 13 A. For certain specific components. 14 A. Yes. 14 Q. This is something that Riley Stoker 15 Q. And "water wall feed pipes"? 15 would have supplied for this job? 16 A. Yes. 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And it also indicates hot air duct and 17 Q. Now, could this have possibly 18 gas ducts, correct? 18 contained asbestos, do you know? 19 A. Yes. 19 MR. RADCLIFFE: Objection. Calls for 20 Q. All right. And if you skip down -- 20 speculation. 21 just skip that next paragraph, the next one 21 MR. VONA: That's a fair objection. 22 says, "Insulation for superheater header shall 22 I'm sorry. 23 consist of 3 1/2-inch insulation block, a coat 23 Q. Do you know if this insulation 24 of insulating cement, and two coats of mastic 24 contained asbestos? 71 73 1 covering"; is that true? I read that right? 1 A. I reviewed this one. It looks like 2 A. That's what it says. 2 the supply was BEH, which is a Keene company, 3 Q. And do you know one way or another 3 and I reviewed their documents from prior 4 whether that material would be 4 interrogatories, and they did not list 5 asbestos-containing on this job? 5 high-temp. block as asbestos-containing. So 6 A. Not based on this, no. 6 based on that, I'm saying no, I don't think it 7 Q. Okay. 7 did contain asbestos. 8 (Exhibit 11, Document titled 8 Q. Okay. And you're referring to your 9 Contract Material Requisition, so 9 interrogatories from your binder? 10 marked.) 10 A. Yes, I am. 11 Q. And we're marking Smith No. 11. I'd 11 Q. Could I possibly see that? If you 12 ask you to take a look at that. Let me know 12 could slide it over and I'll have Mr. Comerford 13 when you're all set. 13 take a look. 14 A. Okay. 14 A. I think it's Tab 25. 15 Q. And again, this is for the Bethlehem 15 Q. So you said it's BEH, correct? What 16 Steel job, and at the top it says applied 16 does BEH stand for? 17 insulation, correct? 17 A. Baldwin. 18 A. Yes. 18 Q. Ehret Hill? 19 Q. And then it reads, "The following 19 A. Yes. 20 insulation material," and it gives quantities 20 Q. And they supplied insulation 21 and sizes of high-temp. block insulation; you'd 21 materials? 22 agree with me, true? I'll go through it. The 22 A. That's what this says that's where we 23 first line says 3,384 square feet, 1 1/2-inch 23 bought it. 24 thick high-temp. block; do you see that? 24 Q. And you realize that you did testify 19 (Pages 70 to 73) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 74 76 1 before back in May that BEH did make 1 A. Yes. 2 asbestos-containing high-temp. insulation 2 Q. Okay. This thing has probably been 3 block; isn't that right? 3 marked a bunch of times, but we'll go ahead and 4 A. They make a mono block that does 4 mark this one. 5 contain asbestos, not straight high-temp. 5 MR. RADCLIFFE: Can we supply you with 6 block. 6 a copy to be marked? 7 Q. Bear with me one sec. If you know, 7 MR. VONA: Can we designate a number 8 and we're going to take a look, do those 8 to it then? We'll designate your binder as 9 interrogatories indicate that Baldwin Hill even 9 No. 12. 10 made a high-temp. block? Does it say 10 (Exhibit 12, Binder, so marked.) 11 high-temp. block in there at all? 11 Q. And you've been referring to this 12 A. At the back of the interrogatory, 12 product list that's located on page 10 of the 13 there's a list of the components that contained 13 Keene interrogatories, and it shows that they 14 asbestos, and that's where I looked to see if 14 made 85 magnesia pipe and block covering that 15 they listed high-temp. block as one that 15 contained asbestos. That's true, right? 16 contained asbestos, specifically as it related 16 A. 85 percent mag, yes. 17 to this requisition. 17 Q. And as far as -- you've testified to 18 Q. Okay. 18 this prior, 85 mag did contain asbestos up 19 A. And I couldn't find anything there. 19 until at least 1972, correct? 20 Q. It didn't say that they made a 20 A. I'm not sure of the exact date. You'd 21 high-temp. block insulation that did not 21 have to look at that. 22 contain asbestos, did it? 22 Q. But, generally, 85 magnesia 23 A. It didn't say they made one that did. 23 insulation, you've testified that contains 24 Q. It didn't say they made one at all, 24 asbestos, true? 75 77 1 correct? It's not listed there at all as a 1 A. Yes. 2 product, is it? 2 Q. And we see No. 1 Plus Cement, that 3 A. They only listed the products with 3 contained asbestos between 1938 and 1971, 4 asbestos in them. 4 right? 5 Q. Okay. And you'd agree with me, 5 A. You're reading from the document. I 6 though, that high-temp. block is basically a 6 don't have it memorized. 7 term of art used for insulation; would you 7 Q. Would you agree with me though -- 8 agree with that? 8 A. There's a list of products there that 9 MR. RADCLIFFE: Objection to form. 9 contain asbestos. 10 Q. Or is that a specific product name? 10 Q. And you said mono block, 11 Do you understand? 11 high-temperature insulation, you agreed that 12 A. No. 12 contained asbestos. Okay. All right. 13 Q. You don't. What do you understand 13 Now, do you still have 11? 14 high-temp. block to be? 14 A. 11. That's 12. 15 A. In the context of insulation, it's one 15 Q. Do you have 11 still in front of you 16 of the insulating products that we would use. 16 there? 17 It has a shape and a size. 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Right. You don't associate high-temp. 18 Q. Going down to the next column where it 19 block with a specific product name is what I'm 19 says A, all right? Slide over, HA duct. What 20 asking, do you? 20 is that? 21 A. No. 21 A. Hot air duct. 22 Q. And you did already state that BEH did 22 Q. And is that 2,800 square feet, 2,500? 23 make a block insulation called mono block that 23 A. Between that range. The second number 24 was asbestos-containing, true? 24 is not clear. 20 (Pages 74 to 77) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 78 80 1 Q. And A indicates it's 1 1/2-inch 1 you personally, you do not know of any BEH 2 high-temp. block, correct? 2 block insulation material that you can name for 3 A. Yes. 3 us that did not contain asbestos; is that true? 4 Q. So that was insulated with at least 4 A. I cannot name a specific name as we 5 over 2,000 square feet of insulation, true? 5 sit here. 6 A. Yes. 6 Q. Thank you. That's all I'm asking. 7 Q. Okay. And would you agree with me 7 (Exhibit 13, Document dated 8 that if it was supplied by BEH that it could 8 6/23/59, so marked.) 9 have contained asbestos? 9 Q. Let me know when you're set. 10 MR. RADCLIFFE: Objection to form. 10 A. I'm ready. 11 A. It might not have. 11 Q. And this is, again, from the Beth 12 Q. But it could have, correct? 12 Steel contract, and it's entitled setting for 13 MR. RADCLIFFE: Objection to form. 13 roof, right? 14 A. It could be either way. 14 A. It's the setting page for several 15 Q. Okay. And under B, SH headers. Do 15 different areas. 16 you see that? 16 Q. I want to focus on the roof. The last 17 A. Yes. 17 paragraph reads, "Roof and upper front casing 18 Q. What does that stand for? 18 shall be No. 10 gauge steel casing, the 19 A. Superheater headers. 19 exterior surface of which is insulated with 20 Q. And that's 120 square feet of 2-inch 20 5-inch insulation and covered with mastic 21 high-temp. block, right? 21 finish per Eng. Std. CA-17-9." Do you see 22 A. Yes. 22 that? 23 Q. And the hot air duct, again, we have 23 A. Yes, I do. 24 an additional 2,750 square feet of 2-inch 24 Q. Do you know one way or another if that 79 81 1 high-temp. block? 1 insulation would have been asbestos-containing 2 A. Yes. 2 on this Beth Steel job? 3 Q. Now, as you sit here today, are you 3 A. I don't know what was purchased, so I 4 aware at all of any high-temp. block insulation 4 can't answer that. 5 made by BEH that did not contain asbestos? 5 Q. All right. 6 A. I don't know. I don't know if -- all 6 (Exhibit 14, Document titled 7 I know is it says high-temp. block here. They 7 Contract Material Requisition, so 8 have a specific name in their list there. We 8 marked.) 9 know if we were getting 85 percent mag, that's 9 Q. And we're looking at 14, Smith 14. 10 always spelled out just like that, 85 percent 10 A. Yes. 11 mag. 11 Q. You're all set? 12 Q. Always is? 12 A. Yes. 13 A. Every time I've seen it. 13 Q. Okay. And again, for Beth Steel 14 Q. Is 85 mag a high-temp. block? 14 "Setting Insulation" is at the top of the 15 A. I don't know. Certain customers spec 15 document, right? 16 it, and that's the level of my knowledge. 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. It's a form of block insulation, isn't 17 Q. All right. And again, we go through 18 it? Can be? 18 some quantities, 4,680, 8,280, 3,744 square 19 A. Yes. 19 feet of block insulation for this application, 20 Q. And the mono block, you'd agree that's 20 true? 21 also a block insulation made by BEH? 21 A. That's right. 22 A. Well, the list is right there. I've 22 Q. And it's high-temp. block? 23 never personally used it. 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. I just want so the record is clear, 24 Q. Okay. And would you agree with me 21 (Pages 78 to 81) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 82 84 1 that there's a possibility that this could have 1 have, could it have contained asbestos? 2 contained asbestos at that time? 2 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 3 A. It might. It might not have. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. That's all I'm asking. If you look 4 Q. Okay. 5 under B on there, I want to direct your 5 MR. VONA: Why don't we take a quick 6 attention to where it says "Penthouse Casing." 6 break just to change the tape. We only have a 7 A. Yes. 7 couple minutes left. 8 Q. It says 1,350 square feet. I want to 8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the end of 9 ask you: Is that the roof? Would that be part 9 Tape No. 1. The time is 11:32. Off the 10 of the roof that we were looking at in the last 10 record. 11 page? 11 (Off the record, 11:32 a.m.) 12 A. Yes. It's part of it, yes. 12 (Back on the record, 11:34 a.m.) 13 Q. Is there an additional area of the 13 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the 14 roof that's not part of the penthouse? 14 beginning of Tape No. 2. 15 A. It's called a front casing. 15 Q. Mr. Smith, we're going to keep going. 16 Q. Okay. It's not on here though, right? 16 All right? 17 A. It's -- there's terminology you'd have 17 A. Yes. 18 to go to the actual drawing and pull it off. 18 Q. We're making good progress, I think. 19 There's in front of the drum and behind the 19 Now, I want to ask you, sir, would you 20 drum. 20 agree with me that Riley Stoker knew that its 21 Q. Okay. And then under C, the 21 boilers could possibly need repairs after their 22 penthouse, there's another 1,350 square feet, 22 initial installation? 23 which would be 3-inch block, right? 23 A. Yes. 24 A. Yes. 24 Q. Not a trick question. And you'd agree 83 85 1 Q. All right. And we already established 1 with me also that work would be done by 2 that that would be 5 inches thick and that 2 boilermakers, true? 3 makes sense then, 2 inches and 3 inches, true, 3 A. Normally. 4 so that is 5 inches? 4 Q. Again, not a trick question. So 5 A. Yes, you always do multiple layers. 5 here's another one, then you would agree with 6 Q. Why is that? 6 me that it would be foreseeable that 7 A. To prevent leaks. You offset the 7 boilermakers like Mr. Tredinnick in this case 8 joints. 8 could be exposed to insulation materials while 9 Q. Okay. Now, at the bottom there, it 9 performing work on Riley Stoker boilers, true? 10 says "Final and Complete." Do you see that? 10 A. They might if they had to get into an 11 A. Yes. 11 area that was under insulation. 12 Q. All right. And then also underneath 12 Q. Okay. Do you know how much insulation 13 it we see BEH again. And you'd agree with me 13 was on that Beth Steel boiler total? 14 that BEH was the supplier of this insulation 14 A. No. 15 material? 15 Q. Do you have an estimate? 16 A. That's what it looks like based on 16 A. No. 17 this document. 17 Q. Okay. Would you agree it would be 18 Q. And it could have contained asbestos; 18 well over 10,000 square feet based on just the 19 is that right? 19 documents we've looked at? 20 A. It might not have. 20 A. I don't know. Many of these numbers 21 Q. That wasn't my question. 21 as we've already found are multiple layers, so 22 A. It could have. It might not have. 22 as far as the actual physical area, I don't 23 Q. It will be a little easier if you just 23 know. 24 answer my question. If I ask you it could 24 Q. All right. Would you also agree with 22 (Pages 82 to 85) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 86 88 1 me then if a boilermaker like Mr. Tredinnick 1 had on every drawing. 2 were exposed to that insulation and it did 2 Q. Would Riley Stoker make this document? 3 contain asbestos, he'd be exposed to asbestos, 3 Did they make that document? 4 true? 4 A. Did we draw this drawing? 5 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 5 Q. Yes. 6 A. If, if, if, the answer is yes. 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. So if that insulation on that boiler 7 Q. And you provided that -- would that be 8 had asbestos in it and Mr. Tredinnick worked 8 provided to the customer? 9 with it, he'd be exposed to asbestos? 9 A. Not normally. 10 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 10 Q. Okay. But Riley Stoker obviously 11 A. If he removed it, and if it had 11 would retain these documents? 12 asbestos, he could have been exposed to 12 A. They retained them. 13 asbestos. 13 Q. If they didn't, we wouldn't have them, 14 Q. But you don't know one way or another 14 right? 15 if he was? 15 A. Right. 16 A. I don't know if it had -- what the 16 Q. I want you to take a look at sticker 17 material had in it. 17 No. 3. You can pull that right off of there, 18 MR. VONA: We can mark that at the 18 that's fine. And what area of the boiler does 19 next break. 19 that discuss? Does it discuss the water wall 20 Q. We're going to look at what's going to 20 tube area? 21 be marked as Exhibit 15, and I know 21 A. This is the side walls and rear wall. 22 Mr. Radcliffe pointed out that is not the way 22 Q. And right in the middle to the left 23 the boiler is actually situated, okay, but I 23 there, is that WW, is that, again, the water 24 want to ask you some questions first about this 24 walls? 87 89 1 document. Have you seen documents like this 1 A. Up here. 2 before? 2 Q. To the left with your finger, up a 3 A. Yes. 3 little bit more. There you go. 4 Q. Okay. And could you just tell the 4 A. Water wall, center line of rear water 5 jury basically what is that? 5 wall. 6 A. This is a drawing for Bethlehem Steel 6 Q. Does that diagram specify the use of 7 Corp., and it's the tile setting and baffling 7 high-temp. block for insulation in that area? 8 arrangement -- insulation arrangement. 8 A. This note does here. 9 Q. Applied insulation arrangement, right? 9 Q. And what does it say? 10 A. Yes. 10 A. It says 2-inch ship lap tile, 10-gauge 11 Q. And you see that sticker No. 1 at the 11 casing, 5-inch high-temp. block insulation, 12 top? 12 expanded metal and 24-gauge lagging. 13 A. Yes. 13 Q. Are water wall tube areas insulated on 14 Q. Can you go up there and take a look 14 Riley Stoker boilers? Are they always 15 and see what that says, and I'm referring to 15 insulated? 16 the box directly to the left of it. 16 A. On every boiler, no matter who makes 17 A. "This print is the property of Riley 17 them. 18 Stoker Corporation. It is not to be used in 18 Q. So that's standard? 19 any way injurious to its interest and is to be 19 A. Yes. 20 returned upon request." 20 Q. And you did mention it was 5-inch 21 Q. You'd agree with me that this 21 high-temp. block used? 22 document -- Riley Stoker is asserting some sort 22 A. At that section. 23 of right to it, correct, it's their property? 23 Q. And we don't know if that was 24 A. That's a legal term. That was what we 24 asbestos-containing or not, do we? 23 (Pages 86 to 89) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 90 92 1 A. No. 1 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 2 Q. Okay. If it was supplied by BEH, 2 A. It might have. It might not. 3 there's a chance it could have been, right? 3 Q. Okay. What's your basis for saying 4 A. We've been through that. 4 that it might not have contained asbestos? 5 MR. RADCLIFFE: Objection to form. 5 MR. RADCLIFFE: Asked and answered. 6 A. It might have, might not have, same 6 A. We've already looked at the documents 7 thing. 7 there provided by BEH or Keene for BEH, and 8 Q. All right. How about No. 4, what's 8 also we had used -- as we go through the 9 that specification? Just to the left of that, 9 others, there's a high-temp. mineral wool block 10 what's that for? 10 that was used, which I know does not contain 11 A. It's the 16-inch downcomers. 11 asbestos. 12 Q. Okay. And what are downcomers just 12 Q. So high-temp. mineral wool block does 13 briefly? 13 not contain asbestos, true? 14 A. They bring water fluid from one 14 A. Yes. 15 section of the boiler to another, usually from 15 Q. And you just mentioned that we can see 16 the drums to the headers. 16 that in some of the other contracts. That's 17 Q. Are they interior or exterior to the 17 written out, is it not? 18 boiler? 18 A. This is a requisition. 19 A. Combination. They can be inside the 19 Q. How do you know if it's high-temp. 20 casing and lagging, depending on the 20 block or high-temp. mineral block? 21 configuration of the boiler. 21 A. You would have to -- well -- 22 Q. They're insulated, right? 22 Q. It would say, wouldn't it? 23 A. These are, yes. 23 A. If the customer specs it, then we 24 Q. Can you tell us what they're insulated 24 carry it as that. When they go out to buy on 91 93 1 with on this contract? 1 the open market, I'm not sure for high-temp. 2 A. This is insulated with pipe 2 block, I don't know what they're buying unless 3 insulation, tie wire, coated lagtone gray, 3 it's spelled out. 4 layer of asbestos cloth, lagtone gray coat. 4 Q. But you've looked at a lot of other 5 Q. Okay. 5 contracts aside from this case, true? 6 A. That's pretty much it. 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. You said asbestos cloth, right? 7 Q. And you've seen in those contracts it 8 A. Yes. 8 says high-temp. mineral block oftentimes, 9 Q. How about that pipe insulation, could 9 doesn't it? 10 that have been asbestos-containing? 10 A. I've seen the terminology, yes. 11 A. It might have been. 11 Q. These ones say high-temp. block, do 12 Q. All right. Now, if we could take a 12 they not? 13 look at also No. 4, does that talk about the 13 A. Yes, they do. 14 insulation for hot air duct below it? 14 Q. Okay. You don't have any reason or 15 A. 3 1/2-inch high-temp. block 15 any personal knowledge to say that high-temp. 16 insulation, layer of expanded metal, and 16 block insulation, not mineral wool, high-temp. 17 24-gauge lagging. 17 block insulation did not contain asbestos prior 18 Q. Okay. And we've already established 18 to 1972; is that right? 19 that was supplied by BEH on this contract, 19 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 20 true, from the other exhibits? 20 A. Mineral wool is high-temp. block. You 21 A. Yes. 21 do have a high-temp. mineral wool block, so 22 Q. Okay. And you'd agree with me, then, 22 high-temp. block does not, by definition, 23 that if it was supplied by BEH, that it could 23 contain asbestos. That's where I've been going 24 have contained asbestos; is that right? 24 with this. 24 (Pages 90 to 93) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 94 96 1 Q. That's your opinion? 1 people walk on it sometimes, and that breaks it 2 A. Yes, it is. 2 down and you have hot spots and you don't want 3 Q. Okay. We'll move on then. 3 that. That's one reason. 4 Now, with regard to the hot air ducts, 4 Q. That's fair. 5 that insulation, is that exposed -- first of 5 A. That's not the only reason. 6 all, the hot air ducts, are those on the 6 Q. Now, let me ask you this: If 7 outside of the boiler, part of them? 7 Mr. Tredinnick, if he had removed that metal 8 A. Yes. 8 covering, okay, and also removed the insulation 9 Q. Okay. That insulation, whatever -- 9 to access this hot air duct for repair or 10 was it 3 inch? It doesn't matter. That 10 replacement or whatever, he'd be exposed to 11 insulation, is that exposed to the atmosphere? 11 that insulation material, true? 12 Do you understand my question? The insulation 12 A. If he did it. 13 on the outside of the hot air duct, can you see 13 Q. That's what I'm asking you. If he did 14 it when you're outside the boiler? 14 it, is that true, he'd be exposed to it? 15 A. No. 15 A. He'd be exposed to the insulation 16 Q. Okay. Why not? 16 material. 17 A. There's a steel lagging over it. 17 Q. All right. Now, let's look at -- now 18 Q. Okay. And why do they put that over 18 we can flip it. Actually, real quick, No. 5 on 19 the insulation? 19 the bottom there, Mr. Smith, do you see it? 20 A. To protect it. 20 What's that specification for? 21 Q. Okay. From being damaged? 21 A. That's the roof casing at rear of 22 A. Combinations, weather, damage. I'm 22 drum. It's 10 gauge. 23 not sure where this one was. 23 Q. And does it use 5-inch high-temp. 24 Q. So weather meaning if the boiler was 24 block? 95 97 1 outside, obviously, not the weather inside, 1 A. Yes. 2 correct? 2 Q. Okay. And Riley Stoker is specifying 3 A. Weather is one thing but just it's 3 that right there, are they not; it's their 4 easier to put on and maintain. 4 drawing, correct? 5 Q. So basically, you indicated that the 5 A. It's our drawing, yes, it is. 6 steel is put on to protect the insulation? 6 Q. Right. Now we can flip it to the way 7 A. Right. 7 it's supposed to look. 8 Q. You'd agree with me it's a friable 8 MR. VONA: Thank you, Tom. 9 material, right? 9 MR. RADCLIFFE: And just for the 10 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 10 record, this is 001129. 11 Q. It could be damaged if it's bumped 11 Q. Now, also, you see the other No. 5 on 12 into? 12 the right. If you can't read it from here, I'm 13 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 13 sorry I have to ask you to stand up, but that 14 Q. Why do you need to protect it outside 14 says penthouse, right? 15 of the weather? 15 A. Yes. 16 MR. RADCLIFFE: Same objection. 16 Q. We discussed that, that's 5 inches of 17 A. It's physical. If you don't put that 17 high-temp. block as well? 18 on, you have to put another kind of covering on 18 A. Right. 19 to hold it all together. I don't know. That's 19 Q. Is that true? I'm sorry, I didn't 20 what we do with insulation. We've always done 20 hear you. 21 it that way. 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. You don't know why you're protecting 22 Q. Now, the penthouse, we already agreed, 23 the insulation? 23 is part of the roof? 24 A. Well, for one thing, our ductwork, 24 A. Yes. 25 (Pages 94 to 97) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 98 100 1 Q. Okay. So correct me if I'm wrong, 1 A. On the outside portion of them. 2 would you agree with me that the roof of this 2 Q. I'm sorry. On the outside portion of 3 boiler is insulated with 5 inches of high-temp. 3 the headers? 4 block across the roof from the penthouse to 4 A. Yes. 5 whatever the roof area there in the back? 5 Q. I understand that in the inside 6 A. Yes. 6 they're not. 7 Q. Okay. Could you do me a favor. I'm 7 A. They're bare. 8 going to ask you if you could highlight where 8 Q. Is that one piece -- inside the 9 the insulation would be on the roof. I'd 9 superheader, is that one piece inside the 10 appreciate that. 10 boiler that protrudes outside the boiler? 11 A. (Witness complies.) 11 A. Unless it's a split header, I believe 12 Q. Thank you, Mr. Smith. And we've 12 these are one-piece headers. 13 already established the penthouse insulation 13 Q. So insulated on the outside, not on 14 was supplied by BEH, true? 14 the inside, I agree with you on that. Now, if 15 A. Yes. 15 those superheaters had to be removed and 16 Q. All right. Now, that's also encased 16 Mr. Tredinnick was doing that work, would it be 17 in metal, right? 17 fair that he would be exposed to those 18 A. Yes. 18 insulation materials? 19 Q. Okay. And if Mr. Tredinnick, if he 19 A. Through the penthouse roof? 20 had to cut through that metal on the roof and 20 Q. No, through the superheater, the 21 he had to remove that insulation to gain access 21 headers. You said it's one piece. 22 into the boiler, if he did that, he'd be 22 A. No, it wouldn't be because the 23 exposed to that insulation, true? 23 insulation was outside the penthouse roof. And 24 A. Yes. 24 if you're working on the elements like he 99 101 1 Q. Okay. And if it was 1 testified, that's totally inside and inside the 2 asbestos-containing, he'd be exposed to 2 boiler. 3 asbestos as well, true? 3 Q. But if he removed the entire 4 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 4 superheaders -- 5 A. It is what it is. 5 A. You don't. 6 Q. That's all I'm asking you. Now, last 6 Q. If they were removed and replaced? 7 one on there, No. 6, that's for the superheater 7 A. You don't. He testified about 8 headers that we talked about before, correct? 8 elements. You worked on elements. You don't 9 A. Yes. 9 touch these headers. They're welded into the 10 Q. All right. And those are 4-inch 10 whole piping system of the whole plant. You 11 block? 11 don't touch the header. 12 A. On the external portions of them. 12 Q. It's your testimony that you have no 13 Q. Right. You've established that. I'm 13 reason to touch the header? 14 sorry, but it's also covered with asbestos 14 A. You better not. 15 cloth, true? 15 Q. Why not? 16 A. Outside the boiler it is. 16 A. Because you can't move those and 17 Q. All right. And again, from looking at 17 re-set them. You'd have to do a stress 18 these documents, we've established that the 18 analysis of all this. It's very complicated. 19 high-temp. block was supplied by BEH in this 19 Bottom line is when you replace elements, you 20 case, correct? 20 cut them loose from the headers and then you 21 A. Yes. 21 take them out and put them back in and weld 22 Q. And you also see that there's asbestos 22 them back to the header, leaving the header in 23 cloth on those headers, true, that was used on 23 place. 24 it? 24 Q. Okay. But you would agree with me, 26 (Pages 98 to 101) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 102 104 1 obviously, like we already said, if he went 1 agreed on that? 2 through the penthouse and removed that 2 A. Water walls are insulated. 3 insulation, he's exposed to that anyway? 3 Q. Always, right? 4 A. To whatever spot he took it off of. I 4 A. Yes. 5 don't think he testified he took it off the 5 Q. All right. And again, superintendent 6 whole thing. He made an opening. 6 we see, again, provided by Riley Stoker? 7 Q. Right, I agree with that. Let's move 7 A. Yes. 8 on to another contract. 8 Q. Okay. As well as labor? 9 (Exhibit 16, Document dated 9 A. (Nodding.) Yes. 10 2/7/46, so marked.) 10 Q. Okay. 11 Q. And Smith No. 16, do you see that? Go 11 (Exhibit 17, Document titled 12 ahead if you've got to get your notes. Can I 12 Contract material Requisition, so 13 take a look at what you're looking at there? 13 marked.) 14 A. These are the ones for Hooker. 14 Q. Now, let's move to 17. Let me know 15 Q. Okay. What do you mean they're the 15 when you're -- 16 ones for Hooker? Are these documents you 16 A. I'm ready. 17 prepared for this deposition? 17 Q. You're quick and I'm glad. We're 18 A. These are my review. When I do a 18 going to move this along. You'd agree with me 19 review, I try and follow a very rigid 19 this is for Contract 1705 for Hooker Chemical, 20 discipline. So things that you attorneys 20 correct? 21 always ask, I try and get in here so at least I 21 A. Yes. 22 have some idea and I'm not fumbling during the 22 Q. And it's "Setting Insulation." This 23 deposition. 23 is just like we looked at for Beth Steel, 24 Q. I appreciate that. So you prepared 24 right? 103 105 1 this for this deposition though, right? 1 A. Yes. 2 A. Yes. 2 Q. Now, you'd agree with me here it says, 3 Q. Okay. And let me just take a look at 3 "The following Eagle or equal insulations," and 4 it for a sec. 4 it gives, again, a number of quantities, true? 5 Now, if we can go back to 16, which is 5 A. Yes. 6 the one I gave you, and you'd agree with me 6 Q. All right. Now, next to the 7 this is, again, a cover page for this contract 7 dimensions, it says "Supertemp Block"; does it 8 and it's Contract B-1705, true? 8 not? 9 A. Yes. 9 A. Yes, it does. 10 Q. Dated February 7, 1946? 10 Q. In fact, it's capitalized, isn't it? 11 A. Yes. 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And for Hooker Electrochemical 12 Q. Would you agree with me that that 13 Company, Niagara Falls, New York? 13 there is a product name, isn't it? 14 A. Yes. 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Same process, we look at the equipment 15 Q. Are you familiar with Eagle Supertemp 16 furnished, once again, Riley Stoker is 16 block? 17 furnishing -- supplying the insulation for this 17 A. I've heard of it. 18 contract, true? 18 Q. Do you know that it contains asbestos? 19 A. Yes. 19 A. No. 20 Q. Okay. And also, I'd like you to just 20 Q. You don't? 21 look at -- they also supplied the water walls 21 A. I do not. 22 for this contract as well? 22 (Exhibit 18, Reply to Plaintiff's 23 A. Yes. 23 Request for Production and 24 Q. And those are insulated, we've already 24 Answers to Interrogatories 27 (Pages 102 to 105) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 106 108 1 Directed to Asbestos Defendants, 1 I'll save us some time. Do you see the first 2 so marked.) 2 entry, Super 66 insulating cement? 3 Q. I'm going to show you what's been 3 A. Yes. 4 marked as Smith Exhibit 18. Just take a look 4 Q. Okay. And would you agree with me 5 at the cover page for a minute. All set? 5 that that contained asbestos between 1930 and 6 A. Yes. 6 1971? 7 Q. Okay. You'd agree with me that these 7 A. Based on what it says here, it did. 8 are portions of Answers to Interrogatories 8 Q. Okay. And this will come to light in 9 filed by Eagle-Picher Industries? Do you see 9 a minute about the cement. I'm just trying to 10 that on the right in a lawsuit? 10 save us some time. If you look at No. 99 11 A. I don't know how to read these, but it 11 finishing cement, it's about halfway down; do 12 says Court of Common Pleas. 12 you see that? 13 Q. Okay. 13 A. Yes. 14 MR. RADCLIFFE: If I can help you, 14 Q. And would you agree with me that that 15 that's the caption of the document right there. 15 product contained between 72 and 82 percent 16 THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you. 16 asbestos between 1935 and 1962? 17 A. It is interrogatories. 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. You've never seen this before, true? 18 Q. All right. And turn the page to 16B 19 A. No, I haven't seen this. 19 and let me know when you're there. 20 Q. And you mentioned you have some 20 A. Okay. 21 interrogatories in your binder; is that right? 21 Q. Last one listed, what is that? 22 A. Yes. 22 A. Supertemp block. 23 Q. Do you know which companies you have 23 Q. Okay. And would you agree with me 24 interrogatories for? 24 that that contained asbestos between -- strike 107 109 1 A. I know Keene, Harbison Walker. I 1 that. 2 think there's another one there, too, but this 2 Would you agree with me that that 3 is not there. 3 contained asbestos at some time? 4 Q. Right. How did you select which 4 A. From 1938 to 1945. 5 interrogatories to put into your binder? 5 Q. Perfect. So it did contain asbestos? 6 A. It was something I worked with the 6 A. In that period of time. 7 lawyers. As we went through certain contracts, 7 Q. All right. Now, going back to -- 8 the questions came up. 8 A. 17. 9 Q. Okay. And you don't have any for 9 Q. Thank you, Mr. Smith. 10 Eagle in there; is that right? 10 -- 17, you'd agree with me here that 11 A. Not to my knowledge. I looked for 11 we have over 4,000 square feet of Supertemp 12 them and couldn't find them. 12 block for this portion of the contract, true? 13 Q. All right. If you could, could you 13 A. Of varying thicknesses, yes. 14 turn to page 16A and let me know when you're 14 Q. Okay. Good. And also, if you go 15 there. 15 down, we have 450 pounds of No. 66 insulating 16 A. I'm here. 16 cement, true? 17 Q. Okay. Good. And I'll submit to you 17 A. Yes. 18 that this is a list of asbestos-containing 18 Q. And we've established that both 19 products that was provided by Eagle-Picher in 19 Supertemp block and 66 contain asbestos, true? 20 these interrogatories, okay, to shortcut this. 20 A. Based on this document, yes. 21 All right? 21 Q. That's all I'm asking you. All right. 22 A. Okay. 22 (Exhibit 19, Document titled 23 Q. If you want to read it, you can. But 23 Contract Material Requisition, so 24 if you could turn to -- well, first of all, 24 marked.) 28 (Pages 106 to 109) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 110 112 1 Q. Looking at Smith 19, again, this is a 1 Q. Based on the documents? 2 contract document for the Hooker Chemical 2 MR. RADCLIFFE: Same objection. 3 Contract B-1705, true? 3 A. You're only talking about the water 4 A. Yes. 4 wall headers here. He could have worked on the 5 Q. All right. And again, we have, it 5 water wall without being near the headers. 6 looks like, another 3,600 square feet of 6 Q. But if he testified that he disturbed 7 Supertemp block, true? 7 insulation that was associated with the water 8 A. Yes. 8 walls -- 9 Q. Okay. And this is for a different 9 A. Water wall, not the headers. There's 10 part of the boiler, is that not true, than what 10 a difference. The header is only one small 11 we already looked at? 11 portion of it. And normally, they would not be 12 A. Yes. 12 into the headers. If they're going after a 13 Q. All right. And I'd like to direct 13 tube leak, they'd be going into some part in 14 your attention if you can scroll down a little 14 the wall. 15 bit to where the number says 72. Okay? 15 Q. Have you ever been a boilermaker? 16 A. Yes. 16 A. I've been in the field for seven 17 Q. And linear feet 3-inch pipe insulation 17 years. 18 2 inches thick. And what's that used for? 18 Q. Were you ever a boilermaker, I'm 19 A. Feeder tubes. 19 asking you? 20 Q. Okay. And then going next one down, 20 A. No, I'm not a union boilermaker. 21 we have 5,700 additional pounds of 66 21 Q. I'd appreciate if you try not to tell 22 insulating cement, Eagle 66, right? 22 me what my client did or didn't do out in the 23 A. Yes. 23 field. Okay. 24 Q. That's asbestos-containing? 24 MR. RADCLIFFE: That's not a question. 111 113 1 A. 66 is, based on this document, yes. 1 It's not appropriate for you to instruct the 2 Q. Right. And then another 3,500 pounds 2 witness. If you have a question, you can 3 of 99 finish cement which we also saw was 3 answer. 4 asbestos-containing, right? 4 Q. Okay. How about feeder tubes, they're 5 A. Yes, to '62, yes. 5 insulated; are they not? 6 Q. Okay. Now, going under the title 6 A. Yes. 7 where it says where used; do you see that? 7 Q. And as we see, they're insulated with 8 A. Yes. 8 asbestos-containing material; are they not? 9 Q. If we look at WW headers, that's water 9 A. Yes. 10 wall headers, right? 10 Q. Okay. If Mr. Tredinnick testified 11 A. Yes. 11 that he removed insulation associated with the 12 Q. 96 square feet of 2-inch Supertemp 12 feeder tubes, he would have been exposed to 13 block, true? 13 asbestos, wouldn't he? 14 A. Yes. 14 A. It's possible. 15 Q. And also, we have next to that feeder 15 Q. What do you mean it's possible? 16 tubes, 172 square feet of the high-temp. block, 16 A. What else did he do with the feeder 17 again, the 2 inch, right? 17 tubes? 18 A. Yes. 18 Q. All I'm asking you about -- let me 19 Q. All right. Now, you'd agree with me 19 rephrase the question for you or re-ask it. 20 if Mr. Tredinnick had worked on the water walls 20 It's not a trick question. 21 or the feeder tubes on this boiler, he'd be 21 All I'm asking you is if he testified 22 exposed to asbestos if he disturbed that 22 that he worked on insulation that was on the 23 insulation; would he not? 23 feeder tubes, okay, and he removed it, he would 24 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 24 be exposed to asbestos; isn't that true? 29 (Pages 110 to 113) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 114 116 1 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 1 That's what I was getting at. There's three 2 A. Based on this document, yes. 2 Riley Stoker boilers that were at Hooker 3 Q. That's all I'm asking. Thank you. 3 Chemical, correct? 4 (Exhibit 20, Document Dated 4 A. That's what we believe, yes. 5 7/23/46, so marked.) 5 Q. And Riley Stoker has documents that 6 Q. We're looking at Smith No. 20. Let me 6 show the location of every boiler they've ever 7 know when you're ready to go. 7 installed; isn't that true? 8 A. I'm ready. 8 A. We have every boiler listed by 9 Q. Have you seen these before, documents 9 customer name and location in our card system. 10 like this? 10 Q. So you know where they are in case you 11 A. Yes. 11 have to work on them, right? 12 Q. Can you tell the jury what this is? I 12 A. Yes. 13 think the title says "Boiler Estimate," but 13 Q. Now, let's go back to this document 14 it's a little fuzzy. That's just my take on 14 and there's an abbreviation that says SP. Does 15 it. 15 that stand for sale price? 16 MR. RADCLIFFE: One of the things that 16 A. I'd be guessing. I think it does. I 17 you do is you ask a question and then you start 17 don't know. 18 to talk after it. 18 Q. And next to it, S-U-P-T, we're talking 19 MR. VONA: I'm just trying to help him 19 about superintendent again, I assume, right? 20 out. 20 A. My estimate, yes. 21 A. It looks like a boiler estimate. 21 Q. And labor is pretty self-explanatory, 22 There's dollars and cents at the bottom. 22 true? 23 Q. Is this something that Riley Stoker 23 A. Yes. 24 would make in the regular course of their 24 Q. I want to direct your attention to 115 117 1 business? 1 Item No. 20 which is "Insulation." All right. 2 A. This is how we bid the job. 2 Do you see under sale price it says $3,289? 3 Q. Okay. Let me ask you -- and again, 3 A. Yes. 4 this is for Hooker Electrochemical, right? 4 Q. And under superintendent it says $248? 5 A. B-1705. 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Same one we've been talking about? 6 Q. And under labor it says $8,218, right? 7 A. Yes. 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. I'm just trying to be specific because 8 Q. So would you agree with me then that 9 there's three Riley contracts for Hooker, as 9 Riley Stoker, at least on this contract, is 10 you're aware, that we're going to look at, 10 making money off of the sale, supervision, and 11 right? 11 installation of insulation material? 12 A. There's four. 12 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 13 Q. Well, I was only provided three, so we 13 MR. VONA: Compound, Tom? 14 may have an issue. 14 MR. RADCLIFFE: It's argumentative. 15 MR. RADCLIFFE: I'm not sure you were 15 It's compound. 16 only provided three. 16 Q. Let me rephrase it. I'm sorry, 17 MR. VONA: I am. We'll take a look. 17 Mr. Smith. 18 MR. RADCLIFFE: You may have been 18 Would you agree with me, based on 19 provided three contracts. 19 looking at this document, that Riley Stoker 20 Q. Three contracts for three boilers, 20 made $3,289 off the sale of insulation on this 21 correct? 21 boiler contract? 22 A. There are three boilers there. You 22 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 23 have four contracts for Hooker. 23 A. This is an estimate of cost. This 24 Q. We're just not on the same page. 24 isn't what they made off it. This is what they 30 (Pages 114 to 117) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 118 120 1 have in there for cost. 1 A. We certainly would try to make some 2 Q. Well, at the end of the day, if Riley 2 money on anything we sold, yes. 3 Stoker did, in fact, supply the insulation, 3 (Exhibit 21, Document dated 4 which we know they did, and supplied the 4 3/31/47, so marked.) 5 superintendent and the labor, they would have 5 Q. And we're looking at Smith No. 21, 6 charged for it, true? 6 again, another cover page to a contract for 7 A. Yes. 7 Hooker Chemical, right? 8 Q. And if you know, what would the 8 A. Yes. 9 superintendent on the jobsite, the Riley 9 Q. This one is B-1808, true? 10 superintendent, what would he be doing with 10 A. Yes. 11 regard to the insulation? 11 Q. And this was dated 1947? 12 A. This doesn't even say that we're going 12 A. Right. 13 to do it ourselves. We don't know. This is an 13 Q. And we'll go through it real quick. 14 allocation in the estimate, and however that's 14 A. It's exactly the same. 15 handled, I'd be guessing because I don't know 15 Q. It's exactly the same as 1705? 16 how it was handled on this project. 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. But you'd agree with me that Riley 17 Q. Because you went through these, right? 18 Stoker was estimating a cost of $248 for a 18 A. Yes. In fact, it says it right here, 19 superintendent with regard to insulation? 19 too. 20 A. For a portion of someone's time to 20 Q. Let me ask you this, then: So the 21 oversee the installation. 21 specifications for this contract are exactly 22 Q. So this superintendent, that's what 22 the same as in 1705? 23 I'm asking you, is would this superintendent 23 A. The specification in this contract was 24 oversee the installation of the insulation? 24 1705. 119 121 1 A. Not necessarily. What used to happen 1 Q. So they just replicated it? 2 very often, if we decided to do direct-hire 2 A. Except for an arrangement of the fans 3 labor, we would have a general foreman from the 3 and aerator. 4 union supervise because our guy wasn't 4 Q. Okay. Do you know if they used the 5 qualified to supervise insulators. 5 same materials on this contract? 6 Q. But you charged for it? 6 A. As my notes say, it was specced out as 7 A. Well, you have to pay the general 7 Eagle-Picher Supertemp block or Eagle. We 8 foreman. 8 don't know what was actually bought. And 66 9 Q. Okay. But you're not saying that 9 and 99, I would suggest to you that it's 10 Riley Stoker, you know, they didn't know that 10 essentially the exact duplicate. 11 this insulation was going into the boiler; 11 Q. So for Contract 1808, you think it's 12 you're not saying that, right? 12 exactly the same? 13 A. No. I'm saying that we didn't have 13 A. That's what all the documents said, 14 the expertise to supervise insulators. 14 yes. 15 Q. Do you know if these numbers, let's 15 Q. Bear with me. I think you saved us 16 say if they used these numbers, are they making 16 some time. 17 a profit on that over and above what they had 17 (Exhibit 22, Document dated 18 to pay the insulators? 18 4/3/47, so marked.) 19 A. I don't see the breakdown here. I 19 Q. Looking at Smith 22, same type of 20 don't know how this number was made up. 20 document we were just looking at in 21, true, 21 Q. Well, aside from that, do you know 21 except that this one is for 1808? 22 from your personal knowledge if that's 22 A. Yes. 23 something that Riley Stoker would make a profit 23 Q. All right. And again, you'd agree 24 on? 24 with me if we look down to No. 44, insulation 31 (Pages 118 to 121) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 122 124 1 is listed as well again, yes? 1 boiler? 2 A. Yes. 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. All right. And we have some numbers 3 Q. Okay. Were they? 4 here, 3,773 for sale price, 200 for 4 A. Yes. 5 superintendent, and 7,990 dollars for the labor 5 Q. Do you know about how many? 6 on this contract, true? 6 A. No. 7 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. Would that include duplicate 8 Q. And this is, again, Riley Stoker 8 gaskets again? 9 estimating costs that are associated with the 9 A. Duplicate gaskets during the erection 10 insulation on these boilers, right? 10 phase, most likely. 11 A. With the sale of the boiler, yes. 11 Q. Can you give me a ballpark on how many 12 Q. This whole thing is the estimate for 12 gaskets would be used on this boiler, just how 13 the boiler, true? 13 many applications would there be? 14 A. Yes. 14 A. I don't know because you have to go -- 15 Q. But I'm referring to No. 44, in 15 if it's a rolled joint in a header, that's a 16 particular, that's with regard to the 16 boilermaker term and, in fact, Mr. Tredinnick 17 insulation portion? 17 used that term. 18 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. 19 Q. All right. Thank you, Mr. Smith. 19 A. You then have to get access to it. 20 Now, do you know -- I think you've 20 And to do that, you've got to be able to get 21 been through this before, but let me ask you, 21 your hands into the header and hold the tool up 22 did Riley Stoker -- were asbestos-containing 22 while it rolls it, and then you have to close 23 gaskets used on all of their boilers? 23 up that opening with what we call a handhole. 24 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 24 And that handhole also has a gasket to keep it 123 125 1 A. No. 1 from leaking. So it depends on how many 2 Q. They weren't? 2 headers have roll joints, how long are the 3 A. No. You had some boilers, like I 3 headers, so I really don't have an idea. 4 said, that used stainless steel gaskets. After 4 Q. Do you know if handhole gaskets that 5 a certain period of time, we finally got rid of 5 Riley Stoker sold with their boilers contained 6 all the asbestos. 6 asbestos? 7 Q. When was that? 7 A. On this job they did. 8 A. Somewhere in the early '80s is the 8 Q. They did not? 9 best we can come up with. They finally had a 9 A. They did. 10 material that would do the same job safely so 10 Q. Okay. 11 we replaced it. 11 (Exhibit 23, Document titled 12 Q. The question really wasn't a good 12 Contract Material Requisition, so 13 question. I'm not asking you did Riley Stoker 13 marked.) 14 use only asbestos-containing gaskets on their 14 (Exhibit 24, Document titled 15 boilers we'll say up to the '80s. 15 Contract Material Requisition, so 16 I'm asking you did they use 16 marked.) 17 asbestos-containing gaskets in some fashion on 17 (Exhibit 25, Document titled 18 all their boilers until the 1980s? 18 Contract Material Requisition, so 19 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 19 marked.) 20 A. I don't know about all the boilers. 20 (Exhibit 26, Document titled 21 Some of them they used it. 21 Contract Material Requisition, so 22 Q. All right. Do you know from looking 22 marked.) 23 at the contracts whether or not 23 Q. Mr. Smith, take a look at Smith 23, 24 asbestos-containing gaskets were used on this 24 24, 25, and 26, and I just have some brief 32 (Pages 122 to 125) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 126 128 1 questions. 1 gaskets would have to be replaced after the 2 A. Okay. 2 boiler was tested? 3 Q. You're fast. I appreciate that. 3 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 4 Would you agree with me that those 4 A. That's what they're buying them for at 5 exhibits that you just looked at, those all are 5 this point in time. This isn't a separate 6 supplying asbestos-containing gaskets? 6 order. 7 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 7 Q. There's no chance that any of these 8 Q. Well, you can answer. 8 gaskets could be used as replacements later on? 9 A. All four of these requisition asbestos 9 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 10 gaskets. 10 A. We didn't do that. I mean -- 11 Q. Okay. Would you agree with me that 11 Q. Okay. 12 Riley Stoker is specifying the use of 12 A. You have manhole gaskets which are 13 asbestos-containing gaskets for this boiler? 13 drums and then the handholes. And the 14 A. I don't think we specified. That was 14 handholes, the headers have to be opened and 15 a product that was supplied to us by a third 15 cleaned out after you go through the hydro 16 party that would do the job that had to be done 16 process and all that, and they get closed back 17 for that job. 17 up and you've got to use a new gasket. 18 Q. How did Riley Stoker know that they 18 Q. If you go back to 27 -- go back to 26. 19 were asbestos-containing? 19 You see at the bottom it says "round manhole 20 A. Vendors. When you go out -- there's 20 gasket asbestos," right? Are we on the same 21 various stages to this process. When you go 21 document, last line? 22 out, you say we need a gasket to do this. It's 22 MR. RADCLIFFE: 26? You want 25. 23 a handhole. These are the configurations, this 23 Q. Yes, that one. 24 is the temperature, this is the pressure, 24 MR. VONA: Thank you, Tom. 127 129 1 what's going to work. And they go out, and 1 Q. 25. At the bottom it says "round 2 repeatedly this would happen. I mean, we had 2 manhole gasket asbestos," true? 3 to do this on almost every job back in the 3 MR. RADCLIFFE: Where are you reading 4 '40s; there was a lot of rolled joints. 4 from? It says round two initials gasket, 5 And eventually, they just started 5 right? 6 putting the same vendor information on the 6 Q. Do you know what those initials stand 7 drawings just to expedite things. 7 for? 8 Q. Okay. So you'd agree with me, though, 8 A. I believe it's handhole. Mine is very 9 that Riley Stoker knew that there were 9 blacked out. HH is what I think it's supposed 10 asbestos-containing gaskets being used on the 10 to say. 11 boiler, though, right? 11 Q. So -- 12 A. Yes. 12 A. That is handhole, but the one above 13 Q. Okay. 13 it -- well, anyway. 14 (Exhibit 27, Document titled 14 Q. Okay. And if we go to the next 15 Contract Material Requisition, so 15 exhibit, 26 -- first of all, I'm sorry to jump 16 marked.) 16 around on you, going back to 25, there's 34 of 17 Q. And again, we've seen this before. 17 those gaskets supplied, right? 18 This is duplicate gaskets, right? 18 A. Yes. 19 A. Yes. 19 Q. All right. Now, if we go back to 26 20 Q. And by my count, there's 134 20 at the top, this one you can read, it says, 21 asbestos-containing duplicate gaskets; isn't 21 "oval handhole asbestos gasket," right? 22 that correct? 22 A. Yes. 23 A. Yes. 23 Q. 34 of them, right? 24 Q. Are you telling this jury that 134 24 A. (Nodding.) 33 (Pages 126 to 129) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 130 132 1 Q. Now, you indicated to me before that 1 A. Yes. 2 some of these gaskets would be used, okay, 2 Q. And you looked at this contract 3 after they did the test for replacement, and 3 already, too, right? 4 that's why the number was so high; is that 4 A. Yes. 5 right? 5 Q. Is this one different than the first 6 A. Yeah, there's a certain number you 6 two? 7 have to open up and replace them. 7 A. A little bit. 8 Q. Okay. Now, if we go back to the one 8 Q. All right. I'll just go through it 9 we were just looking at, which I think is 27, I 9 briefly then. 10 hope. 10 You'd agree with me on this contract 11 A. Go ahead. 11 that Riley Stoker, once again, supplied and 12 Q. You got it, 27? 12 installed the insulation on this boiler? 13 A. Yes. 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And if we look, it says "96 oval 14 Q. All right. And they also had a 15 handhole gaskets asbestos." Are you telling me 15 superintendent present? 16 that there's no way that these are additional 16 A. Yes. 17 gaskets that could be used for repair and 17 Q. And they also provided the water 18 replacement later on? 18 walls? 19 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 19 A. Yes. 20 A. That's not the intent of it when you 20 Q. And you already -- I'm not going to 21 do it at this point in time. This is for the 21 belabor it, so we'll skip that with the water 22 testing. You start with replacing the manhole 22 walls. 23 gaskets to the drums, and that's a total count 23 (Exhibit 29, Document dated 24 for the manhole gaskets, four. 24 11/28/52, so marked.) 131 133 1 Q. I see that, but what about the 96? 1 Q. Let me know when you're ready, 2 A. Well, I don't know what the 96 is for 2 Mr. Smith. 3 because they don't give us a breakdown. 3 A. I'm ready. 4 Q. And then 34 round handhole gaskets 4 Q. Okay. If we look at the top, this is 5 additional? 5 dated November 28, 1952. Do you see that? Job 6 A. Yeah. 6 location, Hooker Electrochemical, Niagara 7 Q. All right. Let's move on. 7 Falls, right? 8 (Exhibit 28, Document dated 8 A. Yes. 9 3/15/51, so marked.) 9 Q. Okay. And the order number at the 10 Q. Let's look at Hooker Contract 10 top, I'm sorry, is B-2017, that's the contract 11 No. 2017. Incidentally, before I get to 11 we're talking about; is that right? 12 No. 28, those asbestos-containing gaskets that 12 A. Yes. 13 we were just talking about, do you have any 13 Q. Now, have you seen documents similar 14 personal knowledge whether any of those would 14 to this before? 15 be used on valves that were associated with the 15 A. Yes. 16 boiler? 16 Q. Can you just tell us briefly what this 17 A. Not through a handhole, no. It's a 17 is? 18 different shape. 18 A. This is an internal document. It's 19 Q. It's a different application? 19 called a work correction order. 20 A. Totally. 20 Q. Okay. 21 Q. Okay. All right. We're on 28, right. 21 A. It's when something is not correct 22 Can you take a look at that. Is that for 22 with the drawings or with the product we've 23 Hooker Chemical, Niagara Falls, Contract 23 given to the field up until the time when the 24 B-2017? 24 boiler is actually started. 34 (Pages 130 to 133) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 134 136 1 Q. So is it basically like a correction, 1 A. This is No. 1 Plus Cement. I don't 2 they're just trying to fix something, in 2 know. 3 layman's terms? 3 Q. Did the No. 1 Plus Cement, did that 4 A. Well, in this case it looks like 4 have asbestos in it? 5 purchasing did not order enough material. The 5 A. Yes. 6 erector said, Hey, I've got a problem, and so 6 Q. And you don't have any reason -- well, 7 they come back and buy the required amount to 7 let me ask you this: Do you believe that this 8 complete the project. 8 Baldwin No. 1 insulating cement is different 9 Q. Okay. When you said "purchasing," 9 from No. 1 Plus? 10 that's Riley Stoker's purchasing department, 10 A. I really have no idea. 11 right? 11 Q. You don't know? 12 A. Right. 12 A. No. 13 Q. And the erector is Riley Stoker on the 13 (Exhibit 30, Document dated 14 site, right? 14 February 13, 1990 from the 15 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 15 Environmental Protection Agency, 16 Q. Well, who is the erector on this 16 so marked.) 17 contract? 17 Q. I'm showing you Smith No. 30, and I'll 18 A. It should be a Riley erector. 18 submit to you that this is a document created 19 Q. So, basically, they were short 19 by the Environmental Protection Agency, and 20 material, it looks like? 20 it's entitled Asbestos; Publication of 21 A. It was short material and the field 21 Identifying Information. Do you see that? 22 bought the material. 22 It's right up on the top on the left. 23 Q. Okay. Is that something that commonly 23 A. Yes. 24 occurred, do you know? 24 Q. And the summary says, "This notice 135 137 1 A. What? 1 provides summaries of the information submitted 2 Q. Where they were short material, you 2 to EPA by manufacturers and processors of 3 know. 3 certain asbestos products in accordance with 4 A. Short material, I don't know about 4 the Asbestos Information Act of 1988." Right? 5 that, but there were things that were shipped 5 A. Yes. 6 to the field, someone bent the tube the wrong 6 Q. If you could turn to 5151. The page 7 way. 7 number is in the right-hand top corner to help 8 Q. Sure. 8 you out there. Are you on the right page? 9 A. And they had to do a work correction. 9 A. 5151? 10 That's the term. 10 Q. Yes. Go in the middle column all the 11 Q. And in this particular instance, what 11 way down to the bottom. The paragraph starts 12 are they ordering here? What's the erector 12 No. 1 Plus Cement/No. 1 Cement (produced 1938 13 ordering? 13 to 1971 by B-H, BEH)." Do you see that? 14 A. Baldwin Hill No. 1 insulating cement. 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. 35 bags, right? 15 Q. "Was a dry mixture of spun mineral 16 A. 35 bags. 16 wool granules, bentonite clay binder, 17 Q. You know that's asbestos-containing, 17 chrysotile asbestos fiber (7.5 percent)." Did 18 true? 18 I read that right? 19 A. I don't remember the list we looked at 19 A. Yes. 20 today. 20 Q. All right. Now, based on looking at 21 Q. Do you want to take a look at it? 21 that, you don't have any reason to disagree 22 A. Yes. 22 with the EPA that Baldwin Hill No. 1 Cement 23 Q. Here you go, Mr. Smith. I thought I 23 contained asbestos? 24 saw it right at the top, but take a look. 24 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 35 (Pages 134 to 137) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 138 140 1 A. The product they have here clearly 1 (Exhibit 32, Document titled 2 contained asbestos. 2 Contract Material Requisition, so 3 Q. That's all I'm asking you. So you'd 3 marked.) 4 agree with me then that if we look at the last 4 Q. We've got the Hooker Contract 2017, 5 exhibit, we're talking about 35 bags of Baldwin 5 right? 6 Hill No. 1 insulating cement, this is in 1952, 6 A. (Nodding.) 7 you'd agree with me that that contained 7 Q. And it says at the top, is it K or X6 8 asbestos, true? 8 asbestos rope, and you'd agree with me that 9 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 9 this specifies the supply of 490 linear feet of 10 A. Based on this, it says it does. 10 soft twisted asbestos rope, right? 11 Q. Okay. And do you know how that was 11 A. Yes. 12 packaged at all? 12 Q. Okay. Let's take a look -- 13 A. No. 13 MR. RADCLIFFE: How are we progressing 14 Q. Okay. If you look real quick, I think 14 on time? 15 it says 40- or 50-pound bags, if you read on. 15 MR. VONA: We're looking good 16 Right on the top, "The product was packaged in 16 actually, believe it or not. 17 paper bags in 40 or 50 pound weights." I read 17 MR. COMERFORD: We were three full 18 that right? 18 days with Mr. Tredinnick, so I'm just putting 19 A. Yes. 19 that on the record. 20 Q. So by my math, that would be well over 20 MR. RADCLIFFE: I don't think you're 21 a thousand pounds, correct, actually 750 pounds 21 required -- actually, three full days, that has 22 if it were 50-pound bags, true? 22 to be split among all of the defense witnesses, 23 A. Yes. 23 not just per defendant. 24 (Exhibit 31, Document titled 24 Q. We are on what we're going to mark as 139 141 1 Contract Material Requisition, so 1 Smith 33. 2 marked.) 2 MR. RADCLIFFE: Which is Bates labeled 3 Q. You're all set, right, Mr. Smith? 3 578. 4 A. Yes. 4 Q. Take a look again at sticker No. 1, 5 Q. Okay. Again, we're looking at 5 and below that it says "Riley Stoker 6 Contract 2017 for Hooker, and we're looking at 6 Corporation applied insulation," right? 7 "1750 pounds of B & H #1 insulating cement," 7 A. Yes. 8 again, right? 8 Q. "Hooker Electrochemical, Niagara 9 A. It's the same amount. 9 Falls, New York." 10 Q. Do you think it's the same purchase? 10 A. Yes. 11 A. Yes. This is just the -- 11 Q. All right. Now, can you just tell the 12 Q. Oh, yeah, you're right, purchased in 12 jury what this document is? It's not a 13 the field. 13 document, but you know what I mean. 14 A. Do not duplicate. 14 A. This was a drawing, and basically the 15 Q. All right. We can skip that one then. 15 summary of all the surfaces and what type -- 16 Did Riley Stoker supply 16 generic type of material had to be put on them 17 asbestos-containing rope on its boilers? 17 to satisfy the boiler codes. 18 MR. RADCLIFFE: Objection. Asked and 18 Q. And you said "generic type." What do 19 answered. 19 you mean "generic"? 20 A. We already talked about that. 20 A. Well, 3 1/2-inch thick block 21 Q. Well, let me ask you on this one, do 21 insulation, that's generic. I'm not telling 22 you know if they supplied asbestos rope on this 22 you, Go with Eagle-Picher. I'm saying that's 23 one? 23 what we need. That's what does the job based 24 A. I don't have it noted. 24 on experience, based on input, so it's a 36 (Pages 138 to 141) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 142 144 1 generic product. 1 A. If it was Eagle Supertemp block, based 2 Q. Okay. So high-temp. block is a 2 on what we just read, it would have asbestos. 3 generic term? 3 Q. Okay. And let's look at -- do you see 4 A. We still use the same term today. 4 the title on there, it says "Insulating 5 Q. And at the top, again, we see the 5 Cement." It's in that chart; do you see it? 6 print is Riley Stoker, so you'd agree with me 6 A. Yes. 7 they created this document, true? 7 Q. What's the number at the bottom there, 8 A. Yes. 8 sir? 9 Q. And if you can, and let me know if you 9 A. Roughly 6,300. 10 can read next to that one. Do you see the box 10 Q. It says square feet, but do you think 11 next to it on the left, if you can read that, I 11 that would be pounds or square feet, if you 12 know it's a little tough. 12 know? 13 A. "We are not responsible for any injury 13 A. Square feet would be appropriate. It 14 or damage due to the use" -- wow. 14 would have to go quarter inch usually over so 15 Q. I know, some of it is tough. How 15 many square feet works out to some number. 16 about towards the bottom of that, do the best 16 Q. Because you put that over the 17 you can. 17 high-temp. block, right? 18 A. "Of any" -- 18 A. That's usually the case. 19 Q. Never mind. 19 Q. Okay. And you'd also, again, you'd 20 A. I can't do that. 20 agree with me if that was Eagle 66 that it 21 Q. That's fine. I had some trouble 21 would be asbestos-containing, right? 22 reading it myself. 22 A. It would be asbestos-containing based 23 A. I've got new glasses. 23 on what we read. 24 Q. Let's look at No. 3, Tab No. 3 on 24 Q. Or if it was Eagle 99, same thing? 143 145 1 there. Do you see that? 1 MR. RADCLIFFE: I'm going to object to 2 A. Yes. 2 both those questions, form. 3 Q. Okay. Now, we have various 3 Q. You'd agree with that? 4 thicknesses of insulation block, you'd agree, 4 A. Eagle 99 at that time frame did have 5 right? 5 asbestos. 6 A. Yes. 6 MR. RADCLIFFE: What's the date on 7 Q. All right. Now, I did the math on it, 7 this document, do we know? 8 and it's 9,933 square feet of block. You 8 MR. VONA: Should be on there. Is it 9 wouldn't have any reason to dispute that, 9 '51? 10 right? 10 THE WITNESS: 11/17/51. 11 MR. RADCLIFFE: Objection to form. 11 Q. Okay. Now, we already discussed that 12 Q. Well, if you want to add it up, you 12 the water walls and the feeder tubes have 13 can. 13 insulation associated with them, right? And we 14 A. Where? 14 also saw that water wall insulation was 15 Q. The bottom numbers right above the 3 15 provided by Eagle in this case, true, on the 16 sticker, the totals. 16 documents? 17 A. It's around 9,000, you said? 17 A. I believe it says Eagle-Picher or 18 Q. Yes, close to 10, just under 10,000. 18 equal. 19 A. Yes. 19 Q. Right. And we went through that, and 20 Q. You'd agree with me if that's Eagle 20 the document also said -- it specifically said 21 high-temp. block or Eagle Supertemp block, 21 Supertemp block, didn't it? 22 that's asbestos-containing, isn't it? 22 A. Or equal, yeah. 23 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 23 Q. I think we'll look back at the 24 Q. You'd agree with that? 24 document. I know -- let me just try to ask a 37 (Pages 142 to 145) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 146 148 1 question to clear this up. 1 (Exhibit 33, Blown-up diagram, so 2 At the top it says Eagle-Picher or 2 marked.) 3 equal insulation, but then underneath were the 3 (Back on the record, 1:37 p.m.) 4 dimensions and the size and the amount, it said 4 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the 5 Supertemp block, true? 5 beginning of Tape No. 3 in the deposition of 6 A. Yes. 6 Michael Smith. We're back on the record. The 7 Q. Okay. Now, if Mr. Tredinnick had 7 time is 1:37. 8 performed work on this Hooker boiler -- I'm 8 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Smith. 9 sorry, this Riley boiler at Hooker and 9 A. Good afternoon. 10 disturbed insulation that was associated on the 10 Q. I hope to be not too much longer with 11 feeder tubes, he would be exposed to asbestos, 11 you. Okay? 12 right? 12 A. Please. 13 A. I want to clarify this. The 13 Q. Now, we left off, we just finished 14 requisitions, which is what these are, are 14 talking about Hooker. I'd like to shift to a 15 always saying or equal. We don't know what was 15 different contract, DuPont Contract B-2216. 16 actually purchased and used on this project. 16 You've had a chance to look at those documents, 17 Q. Riley Stoker has no idea what was 17 right? 18 used? 18 (Exhibit 34, Document dated 19 A. I don't have the purchase orders. I 19 3/22/55, so marked.) 20 don't have a name at the bottom of these 20 Q. I'm going to have you look at Smith 21 sheets. 21 Exhibit 34, and we've been looking at these all 22 Q. Do you know where the purchase orders 22 day. This is a summary of the contract for the 23 would be for these contracts? 23 DuPont job, correct? 24 A. They disappear. I've never seen one 24 A. Yes. 147 149 1 unless it was a major piece of equipment that 1 Q. All right. And it says 2216 dated 2 was purchased. 2 March 22, 1955, and it does say DuPont, Niagara 3 Q. Okay. Well, I just want to ask you 3 Falls, yes? 4 though, okay, we'll probably get an objection, 4 A. Yes. 5 but if Mr. Tredinnick testified to removing 5 Q. Now, again, when we go down to 6 insulation associated with the water wall and 6 equipment furnished, in addition to the boiler, 7 that insulation was provided by Eagle, the 7 we see that Riley Stoker also provided the gas 8 Supertemp block, he would have been exposed to 8 ducts and air ducts, true? 9 asbestos, right? 9 A. Yes. 10 A. If it was provided by Eagle, but we 10 Q. Do you know if on this particular 11 don't know that. 11 contract the gas ducts and air ducts were 12 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 12 insulated? 13 Q. So is that a yes? 13 A. I believe they were. 14 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 14 Q. Okay. And also, again, we see in the 15 A. If it was provided -- if it was Eagle 15 middle column that Riley Stoker did, in fact, 16 Supertemp block that was put on there, it would 16 supply and arrange for the installation of the 17 have had asbestos. 17 insulation on this job, true? 18 Q. That's all I'm asking, okay. 18 A. We provided the insulation on this 19 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 12:47. 19 job. This sheet doesn't tell me whether we did 20 We're off the record. 20 it or didn't, installed it or did not install 21 (Off the record, 12:47 p.m.) 21 it. 22 (Lunch recess taken.) 22 Q. Okay. Do you have any reason to 23 (Exhibit 15, Blown-up diagram, so 23 believe after looking through the documents on 24 marked.) 24 this contract that Riley Stoker did not install 38 (Pages 146 to 149) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 150 152 1 the insulation? 1 conditions. 2 A. No. 2 Q. Would that include just the thickness 3 Q. You have no reason to believe that? 3 and materials to be used? 4 A. No. 4 A. The configuration material, whether it 5 Q. Okay. And again, you have a 5 was going to be a hard block, whether it be a 6 superintendent present, true? 6 blanket or something like that, the generic 7 A. Yes. 7 terminology. 8 Q. All right. 8 Q. Okay. And you'd agree with me they 9 (Exhibit 35, Document dated 9 have that because that's an internal part of 10 3/22/55, so marked.) 10 their boiler that they're supplying, right? 11 Q. Take a look at Smith No. 35, and at 11 A. Rephrase that, please. 12 the top of the document we have the contract 12 Q. It was probably poor. 13 number next to the words "Insulation Contract 13 The reason they have these standards 14 No. B-2216," right? 14 is because they supply these materials for the 15 A. Yes. 15 hot air ducts and gas ducts to be put on and 16 Q. So this is the part of the insulation 16 it's their boiler, it's their equipment they're 17 specification for this contract, right? 17 supplying, so they need to know how thick the 18 A. It's not the spec. It's a listing of 18 insulation needs to be, right? 19 what we're going to provide. 19 A. If they do it, yes, they do. 20 Q. Okay. And Riley Stoker made this 20 (Exhibit 36, Document dated 21 document, right? 21 1/12/56, so marked.) 22 A. Yes. 22 Q. Are you all set, Mr. Smith? 23 Q. All right. And what I'd like to just 23 A. Okay. We don't have the numbers here. 24 briefly look at is hot air ducts and gas ducts. 24 Q. Yes, I know. I apologize for that. 151 153 1 Do you see that? 1 They got cut off, but basically what we're 2 A. Yes. 2 looking at here is a contract change, it says, 3 Q. And under hot air ducts, it says, "To 3 correct? 4 burner windbox, Riley" -- I'm assuming that is 4 A. I believe this is Bates 627. 5 standard? 5 Q. Do you have an additional copy of it? 6 A. Yes. 6 A. We can get one. 7 Q. And gas duct says, "To air heater," 7 Q. Okay. 8 and in quotations means the same thing, you'd 8 A. But I have the notation for the same 9 agree with that, right, per Riley standard? 9 thing, and I referenced 627. 10 A. Yes. 10 Q. We'll go through it then. And if we 11 Q. Okay. Do you know what Riley's 11 have to, we'll look at it, but maybe we won't, 12 standards, what does that signify? What is 12 okay. 13 that? 13 A. Okay. 14 A. It's an engineering standard that 14 Q. And this is for DuPont, Niagara Falls, 15 isn't here. 15 Contract 2216, and it says "Change: Applied 16 Q. Do you know what it is? 16 insulation as follows." Skip the first 17 A. No. It applies to different 17 paragraph. The second paragraph says, "On 18 applications. They list different ways of 18 surfaces outside building apply chicken wire 19 insulating them, different thicknesses, 19 over power house cement and supply Thermotex of 20 different types of insulation. 20 sufficient thickness wet to give 1/4" coat 21 Q. So Riley Stoker had standards on how 21 dry." Do you see that? I read that right, 22 to insulate parts of their boiler? 22 right? 23 A. The generic way of dealing with a 23 A. Yes. 24 particular part of the boiler under different 24 Q. And it says, continues, "On surfaces 39 (Pages 150 to 153) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 154 156 1 not insulated as yet, apply block insulation, 1 look through these products that were given -- 2 chicken wire and Thermotex 1/4" thick dry." 2 specific products that were listed for the EPA 3 Now, we know that Thermotex contains asbestos; 3 by the Celotex Corporation and Philip Carey and 4 we went through that earlier, didn't we? 4 see if you find a product that's just Thermotex 5 A. Did we do that one? 5 without a B. 6 Q. Let me ask you, do you know that 6 A. I don't find one. 7 Thermotex contains asbestos? 7 Q. Okay. So you don't see one, right? 8 A. No, I don't. 8 A. No. 9 Q. Can we take a look at -- I'm not going 9 Q. Now, at the bottom it says, "Price 10 to remember what the number is, but the EPA 10 change later. Keep record of cost of 11 document. 11 scaffolding and applying finish coat power 12 MR. WHITCOMB: 30. 12 house cement on inside work, and record of time 13 Q. Got it? 13 for applying Thermotex." Do you see that? 14 A. Yes. 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Start at 5145 and let me know when 15 Q. Would you agree with me that this 16 you're there. 16 indicates that a Riley employee was supervising 17 A. I'm there. 17 or keeping track of this work? 18 Q. Center column No. 4 says, "The Celotex 18 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 19 Corporation," and if you skim through that 19 Q. Well, what does that mean to you? 20 paragraph, it says predecessors, Philip Carey 20 A. It means that whoever was doing it was 21 Corporation. We talked about Philip Carey, 21 saying keep track of it and submit the costs to 22 correct? 22 Riley so we can bill the customer. 23 A. Yes. 23 Q. Okay. Well, this is a Riley document, 24 Q. And then if you turn to the next page, 24 isn't it? 155 157 1 in the first column you'll see Thermotex-B. It 1 A. Yes. 2 says, "Produced 1906 to 1984, contained 14 2 Q. And you already mentioned that most of 3 percent asbestos, asphalt and mineral 3 these Riley documents don't go to the customer, 4 stabilizer." Did I read that right? 4 true? 5 A. For Thermotex-B, yes. 5 A. True. 6 Q. Would you agree with me that 6 Q. Let's take a look at -- 7 Thermotex-B contains asbestos, based on those 7 MR. VONA: Tom, if I could beg you one 8 years anyway? 8 more time, this is the last blowup. 9 A. Based on this, Thermotex-B contains 9 Q. And if you can look again by the No. 1 10 asbestos. 10 sticker, we have Riley Stoker applied 11 Q. And so would you agree with me the 11 insulation for DuPont, correct? 12 Thermotex that's being used in this contract 12 A. Yes. 13 with DuPont was asbestos-containing? 13 Q. And up at the top by the No. 2 we have 14 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 14 that same language, it says it's a Riley Stoker 15 A. It might, based on this. It's just, 15 document, their property, true? 16 once again, we don't have exactly the same 16 A. Yes. 17 designation. 17 Q. Can you take a look at that one on the 18 Q. What do you mean by that? 18 left of it. Does it read any better? Probably 19 A. Well, this doesn't say Thermotex-B on 19 not, but just take a quick look, if you could. 20 the contract change. 20 A. No. 21 Q. Because there's no B, that's your 21 Q. All right. No worries. 22 basis? 22 Now, I'd like you to take a look in 23 A. It's a question, yes. 23 the No. 3, okay, and I want you to specifically 24 Q. Well, if you could, could you take a 24 look at where it says -- if I'm pronouncing 40 (Pages 154 to 157) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 158 160 1 this wrong, let me know. It says, "Recirc HA 1 Q. Now, if you could remove -- can you 2 duct"? 2 remove that sticker for me? 3 A. Recirc hot air duct, right there? 3 A. (Witness complies.) 4 Q. Yes. Do you see that? 4 Q. Thanks. Just to the left of that 5 A. Yes. 5 paragraph, do you see the diamond with a 1 in 6 Q. What is that? 6 it? Well, I don't know if it's a 1, but you 7 A. It's part of the hot air duct system. 7 see that little diamond there, right? 8 Q. Okay. And does it indicate -- was 8 A. Yes. 9 block insulation used for that? 9 Q. If you look on the left-hand column, 10 A. Block insulation was used for that. 10 do you see the two little diamonds there? 11 Q. Okay. And same question for the HA 11 A. Yes. 12 duct. That's hot air duct, right? 12 Q. All right. It's next to the primary 13 A. Yes. 13 air duct. Would you agree with me that that 14 Q. Was block insulation used for that? 14 statement on how to use that block insulation, 15 A. Yes. 15 how to insulate, applies to the primary air 16 Q. All right. And primary air duct as 16 duct? 17 well, they used block insulation on that? 17 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 18 A. Yes. 18 A. No. 19 Q. Now, how about cement, was insulating 19 Q. Why not? 20 cement used on any of those three items? 20 A. Those diamonds refer to a drawing 21 A. Yes. 21 revision. Something was revised under that 22 Q. Okay. Now, I want you to take a look 22 column. 23 at No. 4. If you have to move the sticker, you 23 Q. Okay. 24 can. Could you read that? 24 A. If you could read this, this is the 159 161 1 A. "All pipe insulation attached with 1 drawing revision here, and that's what that -- 2 No. 14 gauge tie wire." 2 that ties to that. 3 Q. Keep going. 3 Q. Okay. So then you'd agree with me, 4 A. "All exposed reinforcing angles and 4 then, the way that that's stated there as to 5 flats to be covered with 1 1/2-inch block 5 the block insulation would apply to all block 6 insulation and" -- 6 insulation on this boiler or at least on this 7 Q. Does it say finished or furnished? 7 schematic? 8 A. It's something like that -- "with 8 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 9 insulation cement, glass fab and insulmastic." 9 A. You're talking about -- 10 Q. Okay. Well, first of all, this is a 10 Q. Well, if it's not specific to the 11 Riley document, correct; they created it? 11 primary air duct, which you correctly pointed 12 A. Yes. 12 out, I assume, then what does it apply to? 13 Q. Would you agree with me that Riley 13 A. Just this one particular area. 14 Stoker is basically stating how this pipe 14 Q. Which area is that? 15 insulation is supposed to be applied? 15 A. Where they're covering the angles and 16 MR. RaDClIFFE: Object to the form. 16 flats, that's how you're going to hold it on. 17 A. Pipe insulation? 17 Q. Where would there be angles and flats 18 Q. I'm sorry, the block insulation. 18 on a boiler? 19 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 19 A. It's in the ductwork. 20 A. Yes, that's how you fasten it. 20 Q. How big is the ductwork on this 21 Q. Well, Riley Stoker actually printed 21 boiler, do you know? 22 that as to how to do that, correct? 22 A. You have to go to the drawings. I 23 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 23 don't think I even saw a dimension on the 24 A. Yes. 24 drawings. 41 (Pages 158 to 161) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 162 164 1 Q. Can you give us a general estimate? 1 contained asbestos, right? 2 A. No. 2 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 3 Q. So, basically, they're stating how to 3 A. We just reviewed Thermotex, right? 4 apply the insulation on the ductwork? 4 Q. And it contained asbestos, right? 5 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 5 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 6 A. On the angles and flats of the 6 A. (Nodding.) 7 ductwork. There's a difference. 7 Q. Now, we've already established that 8 Q. Okay. The angles and flats. 8 the ductwork on this boiler was insulated, 9 A. Ductwork is made with reinforcing 9 true, based on this? 10 angles, then you have to join it together and 10 A. The air and gas duct, yes. 11 there may be a flat there. And they're saying 11 Q. Now, if Mr. Tredinnick had removed 12 independent of the ductwork itself, these 12 insulation off of that ductwork, the hot air 13 angles and flats have to be covered with at 13 duct or the recirc hot air duct or what was the 14 least an inch and a half. 14 other one, gas duct? 15 Q. And that's high-temp. block, right? 15 A. Primary air duct. 16 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 16 Q. Primary air duct. If Mr. Tredinnick 17 A. It does not say high-temp. block here. 17 had removed insulation from those areas, those 18 Q. I'm sorry. It says block insulation, 18 ductwork areas, while performing his work, he'd 19 true? 19 be exposed to that material, wouldn't he? 20 A. Yes. 20 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 21 Q. And insulating cement, right? 21 A. If he removed the insulation, he'd 22 A. Yes. And that doesn't say high-temp. 22 obviously be exposed to the material he was 23 block either there. 23 removing. 24 Q. You're right. But you'd agree with 24 Q. Okay. And if he had removed Thermotex 163 165 1 me -- would you agree with me that this 1 insulating cement, he would have been exposed 2 insulation for the hot air ducts, would that be 2 to asbestos, wouldn't he? 3 asbestos-containing? 3 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 4 A. Don't know. 4 A. If it was Thermotex, he could have 5 Q. Could it be? 5 been exposed. 6 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 6 Q. Okay. One more on DuPont. 7 A. Could be, could not be, same thing. 7 (Exhibit 37, Blown-up diagram, so 8 Q. You just don't know, right? 8 marked.) 9 A. Don't know. Don't know what's on 9 (Exhibit 38, Letter dated 10 there. 10 February 2, 1967, so marked.) 11 Q. You would at least agree with me that 11 MR. RADCLIFFE: And just for the 12 some of the insulating cement that would have 12 record, this blowup is -- 13 been used could be asbestos-containing, right? 13 MR. VONA: Smith 37. 14 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 14 MR. RADCLIFFE: It's also Bates 15 A. It might have some. 15 No. 691. 16 Q. Because we looked at the Thermotex, 16 Q. Could you tell us what Smith No. 38 17 right? 17 is? 18 A. That's one. Others we don't know 18 A. It's a letter from Fred Kightlinger of 19 about. I haven't looked. 19 the service department to Corp. Officer of 20 Q. If it was Thermotex, it would be 20 DuPont. 21 asbestos-containing? 21 Q. Okay. And this is on Riley Stoker 22 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 22 letterhead, true? 23 A. It could have. 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Well, you don't dispute that Thermotex 24 Q. And it was written by a Riley Stoker 42 (Pages 162 to 165) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 166 168 1 employee? 1 it's the only response, but it's a response. 2 A. Yes. 2 Q. That's fair. We already established 3 Q. And what's the date on that? 3 before that Riley also kept track or keeps 4 A. It looks like February 2, 19, blank, 4 track of locations of all its boilers and its 5 7. It's not '07. 5 customers, right? 6 Q. I'll submit to you that it's 1967. 6 A. We have a card database of where the 7 Would you be able to agree to that? 7 boilers were that we sold. 8 A. Well, it's after '64, so yes. 8 Q. All right. Now, I don't know that I 9 Q. All right. And you'd also agree 9 asked you this yet, but did Riley Stoker, have 10 that's 12 years after the initial date of the 10 they ever warned about the hazards of asbestos 11 contract, isn't it? 11 to any of their customers? 12 A. After the sale date of the contract, 12 A. Not to my knowledge. 13 yes. 14 Q. Okay. So they were probably talking 13 Q. Okay. Sir, if Riley Stoker had chosen 14 to warn about the hazards of asbestos, could 15 to DuPont prior to the sale date, correct, 15 they have easily contacted their customers? 16 Riley Stoker, I mean? 16 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 17 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 17 A. We were all warned about the hazards 18 A. The proposal is dated 1954. 18 of asbestos at the same time, the premises 19 Q. Right. So my question I want to ask 19 owner, the manufacturers and everyone else, so 20 you, sir, is: Riley Stoker, was it their 20 there was no need to warn customers because 21 practice to keep in contact with their customer 21 they had already been warned by the experts. 22 after the initial installation of the boiler? 22 MR. VONA: I'm going to strike as 23 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 23 nonresponsive. 24 A. Usually it worked both ways. 24 Q. But I'm just asking you, if Riley 167 169 1 Customers kept in contact with us, and we kept 1 Stoker, prior to OSHA in 1972, had they known 2 in contact with them. 2 about the hazards of asbestos, if they wanted 3 Q. Right. So Riley Stoker didn't just 3 to, could they track their customers and let 4 come and install the boiler and then just walk 4 them know? 5 away and never have contact with the customer 5 A. Could they have? 6 again; is that true? 6 Q. Yes. 7 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 7 A. It's possible. 8 A. Riley clearly had contact with this 8 Q. Well, I don't mean to beat around the 9 customer after the boiler was installed. 9 bush, but what do you mean it's possible? 10 Q. Obviously, we can see that from the 10 A. Because when we learned -- 11 document, but my question is: Did they do that 11 Q. Let me back up. I'll just phrase the 12 with other customers, to your knowledge? 12 question differently. 13 A. Yes. 13 I'm not trying to trick you in any 14 Q. Okay. What exactly are they 14 way. I'mjust saying prior to OSHA in 1972, if 15 contacting DuPont for in this letter, if you 15 Riley Stoker had known about the hazards of 16 can just take a quick look at it? 16 asbestos, would they have a means through their 17 A. It sounds to me DuPont had contacted 17 database to be able to contact these customers 18 Riley because they had an issue with the 18 and pass this information on, yes or no, could 19 boiler, and they wanted Riley to look at the 19 they? 20 issue. And it looks like it was a boiler 20 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 21 baffle. 21 A. It's possible. 22 Q. And this is Riley's response then to 22 Q. Okay. Do you know if they ever did 23 that? 23 that? 24 A. This is a response. I don't know if 24 A. I think we already answered that. 43 (Pages 166 to 169) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 170 172 1 Q. They didn't, right? 1 Q. All right. So these documents that 2 A. No, not to my knowledge. 2 we're talking about with regard to Chevy, there 3 (Exhibit 39, Document dated July 3 are three boilers that were installed there, 4 31, 1951, so marked.) 4 correct, whether it be by Union Iron Works or 5 Q. Now, sir, before I ask you about Smith 5 Riley Stoker? 6 No. 39, I'm going to ask you, you're aware that 6 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 7 Riley Stoker bid on and installed at least 7 A. There were three boilers furnished for 8 three boilers at the GM Chevy plant in 8 there. They weren't installed by Union Iron 9 Tonawanda, New York, correct? 9 Works. 10 A. No. 10 Q. Do you know who they were installed 11 Q. You're not? 11 by? 12 A. Union Iron Works bid on providing 12 A. W. Holly & Company. 13 materials for three boilers for the Chevy 13 Q. Okay. So Union Iron Works, they 14 plants. 14 supplied the boilers, right? 15 Q. Union Iron Works? 15 A. Yes. 16 A. Yes. 16 Q. Did they supply additional material 17 Q. Okay. We didn't cover that earlier in 17 outside of the boilers? 18 the history, but you'd agree that's part of 18 A. They supplied some supporting 19 Riley Stoker? 19 structural steel, some hoppers, some ducts, 20 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 20 some breeching, and some pipe valve and fitting 21 A. Not at the time this happened. 21 trim around the drums and the casing, the steel 22 Q. Okay. Why don't you tell us who Union 22 casing for the project. 23 Iron Works is? 23 Q. Okay. Did you say stokers? 24 A. Union Iron Works was a separate 24 A. No. 171 173 1 company located in Erie, Pennsylvania, that was 1 Q. Okay. Do you know who would have 2 making boilers and had their own manufacturing 2 supplied the stokers on this contract? 3 facilities from around the turn of the century. 3 A. No. 4 Q. Right. 4 Q. I just want to ask you what documents 5 A. Around 1960 Riley Stoker purchased 5 did you look at, if you could show me, that you 6 them and started using them as one of the 6 base that statement as to what they provided? 7 manufacturing spots. And at the end of the 7 Do you follow me? Where did you come up with 8 '60s, '69, '70, they actually merged and became 8 that? 9 a subsidiary so they became part of Riley 9 A. In the contract documents that you 10 Stoker. 10 looked at, too. 11 Q. Okay. But prior to them becoming a 11 MR. VONA: Let's go off the record. 12 subsidiary, Riley Stoker owned them, true? You 12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 2:06. 13 just said in 1960 they purchased them? 13 We're off the record. 14 A. In 1960 they did purchase them, yes. 14 (Off the record, 2:06 p.m.) 15 Q. So for purposes of these contracts or 15 (Back on the record, 2:09 p.m.) 16 these documents that we're looking at regarding 16 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record. 17 the Chevy plant, first of all, these are all 17 The time is 2:09. 18 Riley Stoker documents that were provided, 18 Q. All right. Mr. Smith, we just went 19 correct? 19 off for a quick minute. I just want to get 20 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 20 some dates straight from you real quick. 1960 21 Q. You know, you're right. That's a poor 21 is when Riley Stoker purchased Union Iron 22 question. You just stated 1960 Riley Stoker 22 Works, right, in that ballpark? 23 purchased Union Iron Works? 23 A. Yes. 24 A. Yes. 24 Q. And you mentioned what year was it 44 (Pages 170 to 173) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 174 176 1 that they became a subsidiary? 1 Corporation, right? 2 A. Like, 1969. 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. You'd agree with me that -- well, 3 Q. What, if any, role did Riley Stoker 4 strike that. 4 itself have with this contract with Chevy 5 (Exhibit 40, Document titled 5 regarding these boilers, if you know? 6 Section C, Boilers and Equipment, 6 A. This is another contract, one boiler. 7 so marked.) 7 Q. Okay. So this is an additional 8 Q. Don't let all these pages scare you. 8 boiler? 9 I just have a couple questions on it. 9 A. Yes. 10 The title of that is "Section C, 10 Q. Okay. Let's get on the same page. 11 Boilers and Equipment," correct? 11 How many boilers -- whether it be Union Iron 12 A. Yes. 12 Works or Riley Stoker, how many boilers were at 13 Q. And this is something -- well, the 13 Chevy? 14 boilers in some of the equipment were supplied 14 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 15 by Union Iron Works for these boilers, true? 15 A. Four. 16 A. Yes. 16 Q. So there were three Union Iron Works 17 Q. If we could go to No. 32. It's going 17 and one Riley Stoker; am I correct? 18 to be the last page, actually, all the way at 18 A. One Riley Stoker. 19 the bottom it says "Setting." Do you see where 19 Q. So this is for an additional boiler in 20 it says "Setting"? 20 1971? 21 A. Yes. 21 A. It was completed and started up about 22 Q. Okay. And it says, "The Boiler 22 April of 1971. 23 Contractor" -- in this case which was Union 23 Q. Okay. And it says next to -- do you 24 Iron Works, right? 24 see the job contract name and location, Chevy 175 177 1 A. I don't think so. 1 Motor, Tonawanda, New York? 2 Q. You don't? 2 A. Yes. 3 A. No. I think it was Holly in this 3 Q. There's an account number 886. Do you 4 case. Holly bought pieces of the boiler from 4 know what that indicates? Did Chevy have an 5 Riley, and then they put the rest of the boiler 5 account with Riley Stoker? 6 together. 6 A. I don't know. 7 Q. All right. You said that's what you 7 Q. All right. If we go down to the 8 think. You don't have any personal knowledge 8 bottom where it says "Special Instructions," do 9 or documents that would establish that, do you? 9 you see that? 10 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 10 A. Yes. 11 A. The boiler couldn't be built without 11 Q. All right. And it states, "Purchasing 12 the rest of the equipment specified in here 12 will issue purchase order to Oldman Boiler 13 that we didn't supply. We quoted the boiler to 13 Works, Inc. in Buffalo, New York. Order will 14 Holly. We did not quote to GM or Chevy or 14 be based on cost-plus with a 'not to exceed' 15 anyone else. We quoted to Holly, and he's a 15 price of $1755." Did I read that right? I'm 16 boiler contractor is my understanding. 16 sorry, "for material and labor." 17 Q. Okay. 17 A. Yes. 18 (Exhibit 41, Document dated 18 Q. My first question: Do you know who 19 10/1/71, so marked.) 19 Oldman Boiler Works was? 20 Q. I'm going to show you what's marked 20 A. The only thing is I know that's who 21 Smith Exhibit 41, and take a look at that, sir. 21 Mr. Tredinnick worked for from '69 to '71. 22 You're all set? 22 MR. RADCLIFFE: Is it Old Man or 23 A. Yes. 23 Oldman? 24 Q. The top of it says Riley Stoker 24 MR. VONA: It's pronounced both ways. 45 (Pages 174 to 177) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 178 180 1 I've heard it many, many times both ways. 1 Q. Are you all set? 2 MR. RADCLIFFE: Just curious. 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And what kind of company is that, if 3 Q. All right. Basically, why don't you 4 you know? 4 tell the jury what this is. 5 A. It's the boiler works that he worked 5 A. This is a purchase order from Riley 6 for. 6 Stoker to Oldman Boiler Works. 7 Q. They employed boilermakers? 7 Q. And is this for the same repair or is 8 A. They employed Mr. Tredinnick, so yes. 8 this a different repair, do you know, that we 9 Q. They do work on boilers, right? 9 just discussed? 10 A. Yes. 10 A. I can't -- 11 Q. All right. Do you know did Riley 11 Q. Let me ask you this: The last one we 12 Stoker regularly contract with boilermakers? 12 looked at was from October of 1971, right? 13 A. Boilermakers? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Yes. 14 Q. And this one says May 28, 1971, and 15 A. Or a company to supply them for us? 15 then below it says start May 26 and then finish 16 Q. Well, I see your point, but okay. 16 sometime in June it looks like, so this would 17 Let's rephrase the question to say, did Riley 17 be different, right? 18 Stoker regularly contract with companies who 18 A. Yes. 19 employed boilermakers? 19 Q. Now, at the top right-hand corner it 20 A. It would be a case-by-case basis. For 20 says "Purchase Requisition No." and it says 21 instance, we have no superintendent, no 21 "Account Number" again. 22 equipment, no material in an area, and we need 22 Do you know did Riley Stoker have 23 a small job done on a boiler, on our boiler, 23 account numbers for the boiler repair companies 24 it's better to get someone local who's working 24 like Oldman iron works -- or I'm sorry, Oldman 179 181 1 in that area all the time to go in and do the 1 Boiler Works? 2 job rather than trying to move in all the 2 A. I don't know. 3 equipment, all the supervision and everything 3 Q. Do you know what that signifies then? 4 else. 4 A. That's an accounting issue within 5 Q. So would that be in the context of an 5 Riley. I have no idea what it means. 6 initial installation of a boiler or repair of a 6 Q. So it could be? You don't know one 7 boiler? 7 way or another? 8 A. This is repair. 8 A. I believe that's an internal 9 Q. This is repair work? 9 accounting number. 10 A. This is repair. Correction order is 10 Q. All right. It says vendor, and that's 11 shown up in the right-hand corner. 11 Oldman Boiler Works in Buffalo, New York, 12 Q. Do you know when this boiler was 12 right? 13 installed? 13 A. Yes. 14 A. It was completed in 1971. 14 Q. Okay. And obviously, the top of the 15 Q. So they were already doing a repair 15 purchase order is Riley Stoker. Mr. Smith, 16 job on it in October of '71? 16 would you agree with me that in this instance 17 A. Yes. 17 Riley Stoker is paying Oldman Boiler Works to 18 Q. Okay. Do you know if Riley Stoker 18 repair its boiler? 19 ever provided a warning to any of the companies 19 A. It's paying him to do a repair on the 20 that employed boilermakers with regard to 20 site on something we furnished, gas-sealing 21 asbestos hazards? 21 baffle, that's not really on the boiler. It's 22 A. I don't believe so. 22 ductwork. 23 (Exhibit 42, Document dated May 23 Q. But it's still something that Riley 24 28, 1971, so marked.) 24 Stoker provided; they're paying Oldman to do a 46 (Pages 178 to 181) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 182 184 1 repair on equipment that was supplied by Riley 1 Q. And it's dated July 22, 1971? 2 Stoker? 2 A. Yes. 3 A. Yes. 3 Q. All right. And Chevy is the customer, 4 Q. Okay. And this isn't an isolated 4 right? 5 incident, is it? I mean, Riley Stoker would 5 A. The one we're writing to. There isn't 6 contract with boiler -- or companies that 6 a reference number on here. 7 employed boilermakers to repair their boilers, 7 Q. Regarding what, the contract, you mean? 8 true? 8 A. Yes. 9 A. Under certain conditions. 9 Q. How about in the middle where it says 10 Q. Okay. Had Riley Stoker known about 10 69035, isn't that the contract number we were 11 the hazards of asbestos, wouldn't you agree 11 looking at on the last page as well? 12 that they should have warned these companies 12 A. I'm saying it's not typed into the 13 like Oldman Boiler Works? 13 letter. 14 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 14 Q. Nonetheless, they're writing Chevy? 15 A. I can't answer that. This is in 1971. 15 A. Yes. 16 Both of these are '71. Riley, to my knowledge, 16 Q. All right. And it says -- if you want 17 was unaware of the potential hazards of 17 to take a minute, did you read the letter? Do 18 insulation. 18 you want to read it? 19 Q. Sure. Well, all I'm asking is if they 19 A. Yes. 20 had known, do you think it would be reasonable 20 Q. Okay. Let me know when you're ready. 21 for them to warn these individuals? 21 A. I'm ready. 22 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 22 Q. All right. Now, the first paragraph 23 A. If you know something is wrong, you 23 does say, "Attached you will find six copies of 24 normally tell people. You just don't do it. 24 service manuals from Copes-Vulcan covering the 183 185 1 It's not a warning. You just don't do it. 1 Model 1 Pneu-Blast System. I ask that you 2 Q. That's all I'm asking, Mr. Smith. 2 insert one set of these instructions in each of 3 Now, would you also agree though that a 3 your Riley service manuals at the back of 4 reasonable company would make sure that their 4 Section 3." 5 product is safe before allowing other people to 5 I want to ask you, Riley Stoker, did 6 work on it? 6 they provide service manuals with all their 7 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 7 boilers? 8 A. Obviously, we believed our product was 8 A. Operating manuals, yes. 9 safe if we were working on it. 9 Q. And I have to ask, but did they ever 10 Q. And you felt it was safe for the 10 place a warning about any asbestos-containing 11 boilermakers to work on it, too? 11 materials in any of those manuals? 12 A. There was no reason not to believe 12 A. Not to my knowledge. 13 that at that time. 13 Q. "These are complete instructions 14 Q. All right. Let me move ahead. 14 covering the Pneu-Blast System and are intended 15 (Exhibit 43, Letter dated July 15 to replace those in your service manual, since 16 22, 1971, so marked.) 16 the existing instructions are not complete. 17 Q. Are you all set, Mr. Smith? 17 You will recall we noted this earlier this week 18 A. Yes. 18 when I was at your plant." 19 Q. Okay. And again, this is a Riley 19 Did Riley Stoker -- employees of Riley 20 Stoker document, true? 20 Stoker make regular visits to their customers 21 A. It's a letter from Riley Stoker, yes. 21 where the boilers were installed? 22 Q. And it's to Chevy Motor Division, 22 A. I don't know what regular is. Joe 23 right? 23 Mignacca was the district service manager. 24 A. Yes. 24 This boiler was in the start-up mode with 47 (Pages 182 to 185) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 186 188 1 issues, and he was sure going there to resolve 1 labor, accelerated schedule, too many things. 2 the outstanding issues that were incomplete. 2 Q. True. But you did look at this 3 Q. So there was a problem and he went out 3 contract though, right? 4 there to investigate it? 4 A. Yes. 5 A. I guarantee the issue was the contract 5 Q. But still based on that, you're just 6 couldn't be closed because the customer wasn't 6 not sure? 7 satisfied, so we did everything we could 7 A. No. I didn't price up boilers. 8 because until it's closed, we don't get paid. 8 Q. Okay. Now, if we look at the bottom 9 Q. And again, sir, you'd agree with me 9 where it says "Field Labor," do you see that, 10 that if Riley Stoker was aware of the hazards 10 "Field Labor Boiler"? 11 of asbestos, this gentleman, he could have 11 A. Yes. 12 warned the Chevy plant in 1971; isn't that 12 Q. There was an entry there that says 13 right? 13 257,864, and next to that in parentheses it 14 A. We didn't know in '71. When we knew, 14 says "including settings and insulation." Did 15 everyone knew. 15 I read that right? 16 Q. I'm just asking you -- just listen to 16 MR. RADCLIFFE: Hold on a second. I 17 my question, and we'll get through it faster. 17 think you read the wrong line. 18 I'm just asking you had Riley Stoker 18 MR. VONA: How so? 19 known. I know your position, but I'm asking 19 MR. RADCLIFFE: Well, you said Field 20 you had they known prior to OSHA, would it have 20 Labor and then you said 257 when the number 21 been possible for that individual, Mr. -- I 21 left -- 22 forget, you mentioned his name. 22 MR. VONA: I see what you're getting 23 A. Joe Mignacca. 23 at. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to confuse the 24 Q. -- for him to tell the people at Chevy 24 record. 187 189 1 and say, Hey, there's asbestos in these 1 Q. I'll step back. You saw where it says 2 boilers, be careful? 2 "Field Labor." Actually, let's just move down 3 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 3 to the number, 257,864, we'll clear that up. 4 Q. He could have warned them, right? 4 Do you see that? And right next to it, it says 5 A. Anything is possible, yeah. 5 "settings and insulation"? 6 Q. That's all I'm asking. 6 A. Union Iron Works supply. 7 (Exhibit 44, Document titled 7 Q. And as we've already established, that 8 Contract Price dated 7/18/69, so 8 was owned by Riley Stoker, right? 9 marked.) 9 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 10 Q. Now, this document is titled "Contract 10 A. Union Iron Works in '69 -- yes, it was 11 Price," right? 11 part of Riley Stoker. 12 A. Yes. 12 Q. It was part of Riley Stoker? 13 Q. Okay. Do you know if this would be -- 13 A. Yes. 14 is this preliminary, or would this be a final, 14 Q. Does it sound accurate to you, 15 or do you not know? 15 $257,000 for settings and insulation? And if 16 A. Based on the date, I would suggest it 16 not, that's fine, but I'm just asking. 17 would probably be pretty close to the final 17 A. No, it's also Union Iron Works supply. 18 number. 18 Q. What do you mean by that? 19 Q. Okay. Does it sound -- I mean, from 19 A. They would often split up the scope of 20 your review of the documents and contracts, I 20 the work in the contract between Riley -- even 21 mean, does this sound about accurate that the 21 though it's a Riley contract, Riley would 22 price would be $417,000? 22 supply part of it and Union Iron Works would 23 A. I can't comment on that. The size of 23 supply part of it, so they'd split it up that 24 the boiler, the constituents, the labor, no 24 way. 48 (Pages 186 to 189) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 190 192 1 Q. All right. I got you. Okay. 1 Q. I think you mentioned them as -- if we 2 A. So Riley supplied the labor and some 2 didn't, let me know. I thought we did. 3 other material, and Union Iron Works supplied 3 A. They were the engineer of record on 4 more. That's how it breaks out. 4 this contract for Chevrolet. 5 Q. Okay. Thank you. 5 Q. All right. Now, the date of this 6 (Exhibit 45, Letter dated May 7, 6 letter is March 23, 1970, right? 7 1969, so marked.) 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Let me know when you're ready, sir. 8 Q. And it is addressed to Riley Stoker 9 A. Ready. 9 Corporation? 10 Q. This is Riley Stoker letterhead, yes? 10 A. Yes. 11 A. Yes. 11 Q. Regarding the Chevy Tonawanda facility 12 Q. Okay. May 7, 1969 is the date, true? 12 and your job number 398-4? 13 A. Yes. 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. All right. I've got to wait for a 14 Q. All right. And the letter does read, 15 response, I'm sorry. 15 "This letter will be your authority to use 16 In its subject matter, Chevy Motor 16 Niagara Asbestos Company as your insulating 17 Division, Tonawanda, New York, right? 17 contractor on this project." I read that 18 A. Yes. 18 right? 19 Q. Mr. Riel, did we see him anywhere 19 A. Yes. 20 before? Is he a Chevy employee, if you know? 20 Q. Okay. Would you agree with me now 21 A. Don't know. 21 that Niagara Asbestos Company is an insulation 22 Q. Why don't you take a minute to read 22 contractor? 23 the letter. 23 A. Yes, but I need to back up on one 24 A. Okay. 24 thing. That job number you referenced up 191 193 1 Q. All right. And if you look at 1 above, 398-4, I believe is Benjamin, Woodhouse 2 paragraph 4, it says, "Will you also forward to 2 and Guenther's job number. 3 this office copies of P.A. Knowe and Niagara 3 Q. That's fair, but getting back to the 4 Asbestos quotation letters. Is the settings 4 point. You would agree with me though that 5 and insulation, as described in Mr. Baumann's 5 Niagara Asbestos Company is an insulation 6 letter of April 30, 1969 to Mr. George Hart, to 6 contractor? 7 be subcontracted to these two companies?" 7 A. That's what this says. 8 Right? I read that right? 8 Q. And you'd also agree with me that 9 A. Yes. 9 Riley is getting permission to use them as a 10 Q. Do you know who Niagara Asbestos is? 10 contractor for this job, right? 11 A. No. 11 A. For repair or modernization, not for 12 Q. Would you agree with me that they're 12 the original job. 13 an insulation contractor? 13 Q. But for this job, they're getting 14 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 14 authority to use Niagara Asbestos, correct? I 15 A. Might be. 15 mean, that's what the letter says, doesn't it? 16 (Exhibit 46, Letter dated March 16 A. Are you talking about the erection? 17 23, 1970, so marked.) 17 Q. I'm talking about this document right 18 Q. Why don't you take a quick minute to 18 here, whether it be the erection, you're saying 19 read that. 19 it's a repair job, it doesn't matter to me. 20 A. Okay. 20 A. We had to get permission, absolutely. 21 Q. Now, Benjamin, Woodhouse and Guenther, 21 Q. And you got permission, your company, 22 it says architects/engineers, right; we talked 22 Riley Stoker got permission to use Niagara 23 about them earlier, right? 23 Asbestos as the insulation contractor, true? 24 A. We did? 24 A. Yes. 49 (Pages 190 to 193) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 194 196 1 Q. Now, do you think a reasonable company 1 Q. All right. Now, to your knowledge, 2 might have suspected that an insulation company 2 has Riley Stoker ever specified the use of an 3 by the name of Niagara Asbestos might be using 3 asbestos-containing product in any of its 4 asbestos-containing products? 4 boilers? 5 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 5 MR. RADCLIFFE: Objection to the form. 6 A. I never made the connection when I was 6 Asked and answered. Go ahead. 7 in the field during that period of time. 7 A. I think we've been over that a lot 8 Q. So you dealt with other companies when 8 today. Specified, we put down that this 9 you were in the field that had asbestos in 9 gasket, asbestos or Eagle, we did that. We put 10 their company name? 10 down gaskets for this for handholes, for 11 A. Yes, I heard it a lot. It didn't 11 manholes. We listed asbestos millboard. I 12 register. 12 think we've been through all this. As far as 13 Q. Just so we're clear, when did you get 13 specifically stating asbestos insulation, I 14 in the field? 14 don't get it. 15 A. 1966. 15 Q. I'm not trying to isolate it just to 16 Q. Okay. And it never registered to you 16 insulation. I'mjust asking you, the Riley 17 that companies that had the name asbestos in 17 Stoker -- I'm asking you point blank, has Riley 18 their corporation or company name could be 18 Stoker ever specified -- have they ever said 19 using asbestos products? 19 this is what we should use? Have they ever 20 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 20 specified the use of asbestos-containing 21 A. It didn't make any difference to us. 21 material in any of their boilers? 22 We weren't aware of what the heck -- that there 22 A. We have listed asbestos products as 23 was an issue. I mean, I was supervising 23 being the preferred product in certain 24 insulation companies. 24 circumstances. 195 197 1 Q. You testified to that. In fact, you 1 Q. What circumstances? 2 testified before that Riley Stoker had no idea 2 A. Gaskets, millboard, rope. Those are 3 about the hazards of asbestos until 1972, 3 the three that I can think of because usually 4 right? 4 we usually catch them in specs. The specs 5 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 5 would say this is what you're going to use, so 6 A. They had no idea about the potential 6 we'd say this is what we're going to use. 7 hazards of thermal insulation on our boilers 7 Q. When did Riley Stoker start specifying 8 with asbestos. 8 the use of those materials? 9 Q. But what I want to ask you and I don't 9 A. I don't think Riley started 10 want to -- those are two different things. 10 specifying. We said we need something to do 11 Would it be apparent to Riley Stoker if they're 11 this job, and the vendors came back and told us 12 hiring a company called Niagara Asbestos that 12 what they could provide that would do the job 13 they may be using asbestos-containing 13 safely and let us meet the boiler code and all 14 materials? That's what I'm asking you, not 14 the safety codes. 15 whether they're harmful. 15 (Exhibit 47, Drawing dated 16 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 16 October 15, 1931, so marked.) 17 A. It wouldn't even register with me. 17 Q. All right. Take a quick look at it, 18 Q. But I'm asking you as a corporate 18 and let me know when you're all set. 19 representative of Riley Stoker, I'm asking you 19 MR. RADCLIFFE: Let me just note an 20 that question. 20 objection. 21 MR. RADCLIFFE: Well, objection. 21 MR. VONA: Based on? 22 Calls for speculation. Go ahead. 22 MR. RADCLIFFE: To what I believe to 23 A. It wouldn't register with me, and I 23 be writing on the first page here that's not 24 can only speak to what I know. 24 part of the original. 50 (Pages 194 to 197) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 198 200 1 MR. VONA: Let's see. Yes, you can 1 Riley Stoker Corporation." Right? 2 have an objection to the writing. That's fine. 2 A. That's what it says. I have no idea 3 That's it though. You don't have any objection 3 what it means. 4 to the document itself, do you? 4 Q. And it's dated application October 15, 5 MR. RADCLIFFE: I've never seen the 5 1931? 6 document before. I don't know anything about 6 A. Yes. 7 it. 7 Q. All right. Now, I'd like you to turn 8 MR. VONA: I'll submit to you that 8 to the next page. Are you there? 9 this patent was sent to Mr. Whitcomb under 9 A. Yes. 10 notice to admit, and I'd also submit that they 10 Q. If you go down on the left-hand column 11 are admitted at this time as authentic. 11 there's a number 35. I'm going to read that 12 MR. RADCLIFFE: I don't know anything 12 paragraph for you. It says, "In order to 13 about that. 13 prevent any air leakage through the slight 14 Q. Are you all set, Mr. Smith? 14 clearance space between the ring 21" -- which 15 A. I don't know. I've got a document 15 corresponds to the diagram -- "and the drum 12, 16 here. 16 I preferably provide suitable flexible packing 17 MR. RADCLIFFE: Wait for a question. 17 material such as asbestos rope surrounding the 18 Why don't you ask a question. 18 drum outside the ring. This rope is held in 19 MR. VONA: I did. I asked if he's 19 place by a cylindrical projecting shelf or 20 ready. 20 sleeve formed integral with the ring. The 21 MR. RADCLIFFE: Ready for what? 21 cylindrical portion is larger in diameter than 22 MR. VONA: Ready to continue. 22 the drum, and the space between these parts is 23 MR. RADCLIFFE: He's ready to 23 occupied by the asbestos packing." Did I read 24 continue. 24 that correctly? 199 201 1 MR. VONA: I appreciate you answering 2 for him. I was just asking him. 3 Q. Are you all set? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. All right. You can skip over the 6 cover page -- well, actually, don't. Let's go 7 back. I'm going to change my mind. Let's go 8 to the second page. It says United States 9 Patent Office, right? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Have you ever seen any patents before 12 in your career? 13 A. No. 14 Q. You're an engineer, right? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Now, the title of the patent says "Air 17 Seal For Boiler Drums." Do you see that? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. All right. And it's by a Max Kuhner 20 to Riley Stoker Corporation; do you see that? 21 I skipped over some words. 22 A. Right. 23 Q. But you'd agree that it says, "By Max 24 Kuhner, assignor, by mesne assignments, to 1 A. That's what it says. 2 Q. All right. Now, it continues to say, 3 "A layer 35 of a suitable heat insulating 4 material, such as 85 percent magnesia, is 5 preferably placed against the outer surface of 6 the drum head." Did I read that right? 7 A. That's what it says. 8 Q. All right. Now, this Max Kuhner, was 9 he an employee of Riley Stoker, do you know? 10 A. He was around a long time. I don't 11 know whether he came from Badenhausen or where. 12 Q. But he was employed by Riley Stoker, 13 wasn't he? 14 A. It looks like he was employed by 15 Badenhausen, which became part of Riley Stoker. 16 Q. Okay. Nonetheless, he's authoring a 17 patent for Riley Stoker, true? 18 A. He's applying for a patent. I don't 19 understand the legal mumbo-jumbo. 20 Q. Sure. I'm just asking you what the 21 document says. It's true he's specifying 22 asbestos to be used in this application, isn't 23 he? 24 A. No, I don't agree with you. 51 (Pages 198 to 201) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 202 204 1 Q. Why not? 1 MR. RADCLIFFE: Asked and answered. 2 A. He's doing exactly what I've been 2 Q. You're right. I'll withdraw the 3 talking about all day. He's saying provide a 3 question. 4 suitable flexible packing material, such as 4 (Exhibit 48, Document titled 5 asbestos rope. Down below he says a suitable 5 Power, so marked.) 6 heat-insulating material such as 85 percent 6 Q. Mr. Smith, you've seen the Power 7 magnesia. He's using a generic example. He's 7 magazine before, haven't you? 8 not saying that's what you've got to use. He 8 A. Yes. 9 was giving an example of something that had 9 Q. Numerous times in depositions? 10 been used and that's what he's doing. 10 A. (Nodding.) 11 MR. VONA: Move to strike as 11 Q. Can you just turn to the next page and 12 nonresponsive. 12 there's an article titled "Furnace Design of 13 Q. It does say, "I preferably provide a 13 Large Steam Generators," right? 14 suitable flexible packing material such as 14 A. Yes. 15 asbestos rope"; does it not? 15 Q. And who wrote that article? 16 A. Such as asbestos, yes. 16 A. Max Kuhner. 17 Q. Do you have any reason to dispute that 17 Q. And what's his title? 18 Max Kuhner wrote this patent? 18 A. He was the vice president of 19 A. Request for patent, no. 19 engineering, Riley Stoker. 20 Q. So those are his words? 20 Q. Did you know that, that he was vice 21 A. Yes. 21 president of engineering at any time at Riley 22 Q. He chose to write asbestos rope and 22 Stoker? 23 asbestos packing, right? 23 A. I was not aware of that. 24 A. Such as. 24 Q. Okay. And if you look on the cover 203 205 1 Q. He chose to put 85 percent magnesia? 1 page, it says August 1952; is that right? 2 A. Such as 85. 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. We've already talked about 85 mag, 3 Q. Okay. So in 1931, the future vice 4 that's asbestos-containing, isn't it? 4 president of Riley Stoker was specifying the 5 A. And his reference was he was using 5 use of asbestos-containing products in one of 6 that as an example. 6 his patents, right? 7 Q. Okay. And basically, he's filing a 7 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 8 patent in 1931 that shows how to insulate a 8 Q. Is that not true? 9 boiler drum with asbestos-containing materials, 9 A. He gave an example of the type of 10 true? 10 product he would use in a specific application. 11 A. No. He's not insulating a boiler 11 Q. I'll break it down simpler, okay. In 12 drum. He's sealing. This is a seal. 12 1931, the future vice president of engineering 13 Q. Okay. Is he using insulation to seal 13 for Riley Stoker, he wrote a patent, and in 14 it, 85 mag? 14 that patent, he did use the words asbestos 15 A. There is a seal -- he's not insulating 15 packing and asbestos rope and 85 percent 16 the drum. That's what you said. 16 magnesia, did he not? 17 Q. Fine. But is he using 85 percent mag 17 A. He did use them. 18 to help seal the air? 18 Q. Thank you. We're still to believe to 19 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 19 this day that Riley Stoker had no idea up until 20 A. He made a suggestion that that would 20 1972 that any of these thermal insulation 21 be the type of thing he would use. 21 materials had asbestos? 22 Q. Okay. Now, you said that Max Kuhner 22 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 23 worked for -- who was it? Did he ever work for 23 Q. Yes or no? 24 Riley Stoker? 24 A. I've said repeatedly I don't know if 52 (Pages 202 to 205) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 206 208 1 someone knew there was asbestos in something, 1 Michael Smith. We're back on the record. The 2 but as far as being aware that the application 3 of thermal insulation to Riley boilers was 2 time is 2:58. 3 ***** 4 hazardous was not found out until '72 when OSHA 4 EXAMINATION CONDUCTED 5 came out and said these have this in it and 5 BY MR. RADCLIFFE: 6 it's bad. And our answer is we stopped using 6 Q. Mr. Smith, I'm going to ask you some 7 it, period. 7 questions. I know I'm sitting next to you, but 8 Q. *And despite the fact that Riley 8 feel free to look at the camera, if you can. 9 Stoker was a party to several workers' 9 All right? 10 compensation claims with regard to asbestos 10 A. Yes. 11 disease prior to 1972 -- 11 Q. I want to back up just a little bit 12 A. We've been all through that. 12 and talk to you about your experience. You 13 MR. RADCLIFFE: Wait for a question. 13 mentioned that you actually worked in the field 14 MR. VONA: That's my question. 14 in the erection of boilers. Do you recall that 15 MR. RADCLIFFE: Well, it's not a 15 testimony? 16 complete question. Can you read it back? 16 A. Yes. 17 (*Testimony read back by 17 Q. Can you tell the jury when did you 18 reporter.) 18 first start working in the field in connection 19 MR. RADCLIFFE: I object. That's not 19 with boilers? 20 a complete question. 20 A. I started working in the field in June 21 Q. Okay. Fine. So it's still Riley 21 of 1966 with Ebasco Services on a jobsite in 22 Stoker's position, you just testified, they 22 Dallas, Texas. 23 didn't know asbestos was a hazard until 1972? 23 Q. And how long did you work in the field 24 And that's in contrary or in despite there are 24 in connection with the erection of boilers? 207 209 1 several workers' compensation claims filed with 1 A. I worked in the field in connection 2 regard to asbestos disease prior to 1972? 2 with the erection of boilers until February 3 MR. RADCLIFFE: Object to the form. 3 1973. 4 A. I've already testified to all of that. 4 Q. And what was your job from '66 to '73? 5 Q. So the answer is yes? I'm just asking 5 A. In '66 I was in Dallas, Texas. I was 6 you what Riley Stoker's position is on the 6 a field engineer. I was supervising 7 health hazards of asbestos, that's all, when 7 insulators, carpenters until the following 8 they thought it was hazardous; you said 1972, 8 summer, and then I went over to Lake Ray 9 right? 9 Hubbard in Texas, and we installed a complete 10 A. We became aware of the potential 10 base for a power plant. 11 hazard of the thermal insulation on our boiler 11 In December of 1967 I was assigned to 12 with the advent of OSHA in 1972. 12 Bridgeport Harbor Station where I supervised 13 MR. VONA: All right. I don't have 13 various crafts, including ironworkers, 14 any further questions at this time. 14 boilermakers, painters in the erection of coal 15 MR. RADCLIFFE: Anybody else in the 15 barge unloading, berths, and fuel oil unloading 16 room with questions? Anybody on the phone with 16 berths, and various modifications to the 17 questions? 17 boilers. 18 (No response.) 18 Q. And during this time that you were 19 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 2:49. 19 working in the field, if I can refer to it that 20 We're off the record. 20 way, did you ever work near boilermakers? 21 (Off the record, 2:49 p.m.) 21 A. Every day. 22 (Back on the record, 2:58 p.m.) 22 Q. Did you ever work near insulators? 23 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the 23 A. Yes. 24 beginning of Tape No. 4 in the deposition of 24 Q. When you worked near insulators, how 53 (Pages 206 to 209) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 210 212 1 far would you be from them? 1 Stoker products versus Riley Stoker equipment. 2 A. In Dallas, Texas, I was actually 2 What did Riley Stoker sell? 3 supervising the installation of the insulation 3 A. Riley Stoker's primary product was 4 on the power plant, not just the boiler, the 4 boilers and fuel-burning equipment. 5 entire power plant. And I was with them daily, 5 Q. You already mentioned that these 6 all up and down the structure, so I was with 6 boilers are not the size of a water heater or a 7 them probably from June through March or April 7 boiler furnace in somebody's house. Would you 8 the following year. 8 refer to a Riley Stoker boiler as a product? 9 Q. And when you were working with them, 9 A. No. 10 how close? Were you a foot away, 100 feet 10 Q. What would you describe it as? 11 away? 11 A. It's a very sophisticated piece of 12 A. Normally, we were a couple of feet, 12 equipment that only a very sophisticated buyer 13 and the only time I was a little bit distant, 13 would purchase. 14 we were working trying to create something in 14 Q. Explain that process for us a little 15 their shop and they started to cut some pipe 15 bit. Did a potential purchaser come to Riley 16 insulation, and they told me that I had to put 16 and say give us a boiler, or how did it happen? 17 a mask on because the dust could irritate me. 17 A. Normally, the owners, either 18 And so I put the mask on and stayed there, and 18 themselves or through an engineer, would define 19 we finished the project. 19 a need that they had and prepare a 20 Q. All right. Did anyone at that time 20 specification, and that would include things 21 tell you about any of the hazards associated or 21 like where the boiler was going, what the site 22 alleged to be associated with exposure to 22 looked like, what the fuel would be, what the 23 asbestos? 23 steam requirements had to be as far as 24 A. No. 24 temperature, pressure, quantity, the schedule 211 213 1 Q. What about at any time when you were 1 for the project, and what the scope of the work 2 working in the field, did anyone tell you that 2 for each of the vendors might be. 3 there were hazards associated with exposure to 3 Q. All right. So how was that 4 asbestos? 4 information -- now, was this information 5 A. No. 5 provided by the buyer or somebody else, or who 6 Q. When you left -- did you work for 6 gave it to you? 7 Ebasco Services the entire time that you were 7 MR. VONA: Form. 8 in the field? 8 A. It was usually either the buyer or 9 A. Yes, at various sites, but for Ebasco. 9 their architect/engineer. 10 Q. And when you left Ebasco, is that when 10 Q. And on whose behalf was the 11 you started to work for Riley? 11 architect/engineer working? 12 A. Yes. 12 A. For the owner. 13 Q. Now, back when you were working for 13 Q. All right. So when you got this 14 Ebasco, did any of the insulators tell you that 14 information from the owner, are we talking 15 working with insulation materials was 15 about a half a paragraph or something more 16 hazardous? 16 significant than that? 17 A. No. 17 MR. VONA: Form. 18 Q. Do you know when OSHA started to 18 A. There was quite a wide variety of ways 19 regulate exposure to asbestos in the workplace? 19 they could request it. If they already had a 20 A. It was late in 1971. 20 boiler there from us, they might just have a 21 Q. I'm going to jump around a little bit 21 one-page requirement, duplicate this boiler 22 to try to cover some of the information that 22 plus do this, this, and this, and we would then 23 was covered earlier today. 23 give them a price for doing it based on that 24 There were questions about Riley 24 requirement. 54 (Pages 210 to 213) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 214 216 1 And we'd range from there to the large 1 delivered to Hooker Chemical, right? 2 utility boiler where they have specifications 2 A. Yes. 3 that are literally feet thick. 3 Q. Was Hooker Chemical a sophisticated 4 Q. Well, let's talk about the customers 4 purchaser of boilers? 5 in this specific case. You talked about some 5 MR. VONA: Form. 6 boilers that were at DuPont today, right? 6 A. Yes. 7 A. Yes, a boiler at DuPont. 7 Q. Who had control over the boilers at 8 Q. Was DuPont a sophisticated purchaser 8 Hooker Chemical once they were delivered to 9 of boiler equipment? 9 Hooker Chemical? 10 MR. VONA: Form. 10 A. Hooker Chemical. 11 A. Yes. DuPont actually was a very 11 Q. While we're talking about Hooker, let 12 significant customer of Riley and there was a 12 me just ask you some questions. Do you 13 lot of different boilers at a lot of different 13 remember being shown Exhibits 17, 19, and 20? 14 sites that had been specified, sold, erected 14 A. Yes. 15 and operated over the years. 15 Q. Can I see No. 17 and I'll 16 Q. Did DuPont know how to specify a 16 specifically -- 17 boiler? 17 MR. VONA: Tom, which contract is 18 MR. VONA: Objection. Form. 18 that? 19 A. Yes, they did. 19 MR. RADCLIFFE: This is Hooker 20 Q. Did DuPont know how to run a boiler? 20 Chemical Contract 1705. 21 A. Yes. 21 MR. VONA: Okay. Thanks. 22 Q. And once a boiler was delivered to 22 MR. RADCLIFFE: Actually, we don't 23 DuPont, who was in charge of the operations and 23 need this one. 24 maintenance of that boiler? 24 Q. On Exhibit 17, I want to direct your 215 217 1 A. E.I. DuPont. 1 attention specifically to the -- is this a 2 Q. Once a boiler was delivered to DuPont, 2 requisition document? 3 who had control over that boiler? 3 A. This is a contract material 4 A. DuPont. 4 requisition document. 5 Q. Did Riley Stoker ever have the ability 5 Q. Okay. Does this mean that these 6 after a boiler was delivered to go back onto 6 materials were actually purchased? 7 the premises of a customer and say we want to 7 A. No. 8 do work on a boiler, we want you to give us 8 Q. What does it mean? 9 access to our boiler? 9 A. It means -- it states it, the 10 MR. VONA: Form. 10 following or equal insulation. This is a 11 A. Not without the customer requesting 11 generic type of the product that you need to 12 us. 12 provide us with a certain benefit, and this is 13 Q. Now, we were talking specifically 13 a standard method of doing it. 14 about DuPont. What about GM? You talked about 14 Q. Do you remember being asked a number 15 a GM boiler earlier today, right? 15 of questions or a series of questions about the 16 A. Several boilers at GM. 16 Supertemp block? 17 Q. Was GM a sophisticated purchaser of 17 A. Yes. 18 boilers? 18 Q. And you see that Supertemp block is 19 A. Very. They bought a lot of boilers 19 listed here? 20 for their plants all over the country. 20 A. Yes, it is. 21 Q. Who had control over the GM boilers 21 Q. Of your own personal knowledge, do you 22 after they were delivered to GM? 22 know whether Supertemp block contains asbestos? 23 A. GM did. 23 A. I did not know. 24 Q. You also talked about boilers 24 Q. Do you know now on your own personal 55 (Pages 214 to 217) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 218 220 1 knowledge? 1 This is Exhibit 30 that was shown to 2 A. No. 2 you earlier, and I'd like you to just read the 3 Q. All right. So assuming that you were 3 paragraph. You can read it to yourself right 4 provided Answers to Interrogatories from the 4 at the beginning under summary. 5 company who made the product, they might say 5 A. Okay. 6 whether or not it contained asbestos, right? 6 Q. Based on your review of that 7 A. Yes. 7 paragraph, is the EPA publishing this document 8 Q. All right. I'm going to show you 8 to say that the EPA knows all this information 9 Exhibit 18 which you were shown earlier and ask 9 is true, or is the EPA publishing what other 10 you to look at the Supertemp block and tell me 10 people said was true? 11 the years that the company who made it said 11 A. They're publishing what other people 12 that it contained asbestos? 12 said was true. 13 A. Supertemp block contained asbestos of 13 Q. And does the EPA indicate the source 14 varying degrees from 1938 through 1945. 14 of this information? 15 Q. '45. What are the dates on the 15 A. It indicates by manufacturers and 16 requisition forms where Riley lists Supertemp 16 process of certain asbestos products. 17 block? 17 Q. And did the manufacturers of products 18 A. June 3, 1946. 18 as far as you know -- well, strike that. 19 Q. 1946. So if Riley actually did 19 Was it pointed out to you that anybody 20 purchase or had someone purchase Supertemp 20 submitted information for Thermotex, not 21 block in 1946, did it still contain asbestos 21 Thermotex-B but Thermotex? 22 according to the manufacturer? 22 A. No. 23 MR. VONA: Objection. 23 Q. Do you have any information about 24 A. No. 24 whether or not Thermotex-B contained asbestos 219 221 1 Q. So earlier if you were asked questions 1 other than what's in Exhibit 30? 2 about whether or not Supertemp block contained 2 A. No. 3 asbestos, were you relying on your own personal 3 Q. Did Riley Stoker ever manufacture 4 knowledge or were you relying on statements 4 block insulation? 5 from counsel or what you understood was in an 5 A. No. 6 interrogatory response? 6 Q. Any type of block insulation, high 7 A. Statements from today. 7 temp. or low temp.? 8 Q. Statements from counsel? 8 A. No. 9 A. Yes. 9 Q. Did Riley Stoker ever manufacture 10 Q. Is that true -- well, let me just say, 10 insulating cement? 11 you were also asked questions about Thermotex, 11 A. No. 12 do you remember that? 12 Q. Did Riley Stoker ever manufacture 13 A. Yes. 13 pipecovering? 14 Q. And there was a question about 14 A. No. 15 Thermotex, and then you were shown a document 15 Q. Are these all types of pipecovering 16 that referred to Thermotex-B. Do you remember 16 that have been used to varying degrees on 17 that? 17 boilers in the past? 18 A. Yes. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Of your own personal knowledge, are 19 Q. Did Riley Stoker manufacture 20 Thermotex and Thermotex-B the same products? 20 insulation of any type? 21 A. I don't know. 21 A. No. 22 Q. Thermotex-B, according to what the EPA 22 Q. Was insulation required in order to 23 says someone else said -- actually, let me back 23 make a boiler operate efficiently and safely? 24 up. I'll show you the document. 24 A. Yes. 56 (Pages 218 to 221) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 222 224 1 Q. Where did Riley Stoker get the 1 application. They had a combination of 2 insulation if it didn't manufacture it? 2 material on them. 3 A. It went out to third-party suppliers 3 Q. Let me ask you about the plaintiff in 4 on an open-bid basis. 4 this case. Did you read his deposition? 5 Q. Did Riley Stoker tell those 5 A. I read all four of them. 6 third-party suppliers how to manufacture the 6 Q. All right. And so do you have an 7 insulation? 7 understanding of what plaintiff says he did as 8 A. No. 8 a boilermaker? 9 Q. Did Riley Stoker require that the 9 A. Yes. 10 insulation contain any sort of raw ingredient 10 Q. When did Mr. -- I'm going to pronounce 11 or material? 11 it incorrectly. 12 A. No. 12 MR. VONA: Tredinnick. 13 Q. If Riley Stoker was looking for 13 A. Tredinnick. 14 insulation, what would they tell third-party 14 Q. When did Mr. Tredinnick say he started 15 suppliers? What kind of information would they 15 as a boilermaker? 16 give them? 16 A. I believe he started in 1967 as a 17 A. They would give them the generic 17 helper. 18 consideration that we had such as it had to be 18 Q. And how long did Mr. Tredinnick say he 19 2 1/2 inches thick, it had to be a soft form, a 19 worked as a boilermaker? 20 hard form. For pipe it might have been a 20 A. He had approximately a two-year break 21 curved form, half-rounds. They would give them 21 in service to serve in the Army. I believe it 22 the generic description, and the different 22 was '67 to '69, and then from '69 to 2002 he 23 vendors would then quote to that generic with 23 basically was a boilermaker. 24 their specific products. 24 Q. Did Mr. Tredinnick belong to a union? 223 225 1 Q. On some of the documents that we've 1 A. Yes, I believe he belonged to Local 7, 2 seen, there's been references to casing and 2 boilermaker union. 3 lagging. What does casing and lagging mean in 3 Q. Have you ever in the past reviewed any 4 connection with a boiler manufactured by Riley 4 boilermaker union documents? 5 Stoker? 5 A. Yes. 6 A. Casing actually has two meanings, and 6 Q. Do any of those documents discuss the 7 one type of project, the casing, such as 7 hazards of exposure to asbestos? 8 10-gauge casing, is put right against the 8 MR. VONA: Objection. 9 boiler tubes to provide a smooth base for the 9 A. Yes. 10 installation of the insulation. 10 Q. Are those documents copied and set 11 And other boilers, the casing is 11 forth in your notebook here? 12 supplied outside of the insulation to basically 12 A. Yes. 13 provide an airtight, weathertight seal for it. 13 Q. In general, when do those documents 14 Lagging is used outside insulation 14 start to discuss the hazards -- when do those 15 normally when the inside is already sealed. 15 boilermaker union documents start to discuss 16 Q. Are you done? 16 the hazards of exposure to asbestos? 17 A. Yes. 17 MR. VONA: Objection. 18 Q. The lagging that was put on -- well, 18 MR. COMERFORD: I don't want to go off 19 strike that. 19 the record, but we agreed not to ask your 20 For the boilers that you've testified 20 client about the hazards of asbestos that were 21 about today, did they have lagging on the 21 memorialized. 22 outside? 22 MR. RADCLIFFE: That's fine. If 23 A. One boiler had lagging. Some had just 23 you'll agree to strike from this deposition 24 the insulmastic or the Thermotex-type 24 every question about knowledge of the hazards 57 (Pages 222 to 225) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 226 228 1 of exposure to asbestos, including the 1 review for us, for which jobsites did Riley 2 questions about workers' comp., including about 2 Stoker have contract documents? 3 when it was first known, I'll stop and move on. 3 A. Riley and Union Iron Works had 4 MR. COMERFORD: Give me a second to 4 contract documents for Bethlehem Steel Corp. in 5 talk with Keith. 5 Lackawanna. We had contract documents for 6 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 3:17. 6 three contracts at Hooker Chemical, and we also 7 We're off the record. 7 had contract documents for the start of a 8 (Off the record, 3:17 p.m.) 8 fourth, but that wasn't talked about. 9 (Back on the record, 3:43 p.m.) 9 MR. VONA: Okay. 10 MR. RADCLIFFE: We've had some 10 A. Chevrolet Motor Division, we had Union 11 off-the-record discussions, and it's agreeable 11 Iron Works documents for three boilers. We had 12 to all the parties in this case that we're 12 one Riley contract for a boiler starting up in 13 going to strike questions that have to do with 13 1971, and we had E.I. DuPont in Niagara Falls, 14 Riley Stoker's knowledge of the hazards of 14 New York, for one boiler. 15 exposure to asbestos, which would include 15 Q. All right. And did Mr. Tredinnick 16 workers' compensation-type questions as well as 16 describe working at all of these places? 17 when did you first know about the hazards, 17 A. Yes. 18 things of that nature, right? 18 Q. Specifically, with respect to -- well, 19 MR. VONA: I will just add to that, if 19 let me ask you first: When a boiler is erected 20 it's amenable to you, we'd also be striking 20 in the field, is insulation used on the boiler 21 Mr. Smith's specific knowledge of the questions 21 the first day the erection starts? 22 you asked him regarding the hazards of 22 A. No. 23 asbestos. 23 Q. How do you know when insulation is 24 MR. RADCLIFFE: Absolutely. That 24 being used or is supposed to be used or was 227 229 1 includes my questions as well. And in fact, 1 used in the erection of a boiler? 2 for the record, I had not finished those 2 A. The insulation cannot be applied to a 3 questions. And had we not agreed to all of 3 boiler until after the boiler ASME code 4 this, I would have had more questions to ask 4 pressure parts are erected and hydrostatically 5 Mr. Smith. 5 tested. And after that you can start -- and 6 MR. VONA: I assume that. So we can 6 tested successfully. After that you can start 7 go back on the video. 7 applying insulation and refractory materials. 8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record. 8 Q. So for the boilers at issue here, were 9 The time is 3:44. 9 you able to determine when that took place 10 Q. Okay. Mr. Smith, we're back on the 10 time-wise? 11 record. I think I was asking you earlier if 11 A. I came up with a completion date on 12 you had read Mr. Tredinnick's depositions. Do 12 all the boilers except the Union Iron Works 13 you remember that? 13 boilers. And for those boilers, all I have is 14 A. Yes. 14 the ship date because that was the extent of 15 Q. All right. And from reading his 15 the Union Iron Works contract was to ship 16 depositions, do you have an understanding of 16 components to W. Holly, who bought the boilers 17 what he said he did at the various jobsites and 17 from them. 18 when he was there? 18 Q. All right. Let me go jobsite by 19 A. Yes. 19 jobsite. At DuPont, was Mr. Tredinnick present 20 Q. And have you looked through the 20 during the erection of any of the boilers? 21 contract documents for each of the jobsites at 21 A. No. 22 issue today? 22 Q. Did Mr. Tredinnick describe doing work 23 A. Yes. 23 on any of the boilers at DuPont? 24 Q. And specifically, if you could just 24 A. He described working on one Riley 58 (Pages 226 to 229) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 230 232 1 boiler at DuPont approximately one to two weeks 1 miscellaneous valves and stuff. 2 in 1967, and later on during his tenure with 2 Q. Did the side walls, would that have 3 the Oldman company, which was from 1969 to 3 involved any product that contained asbestos? 4 1971. 4 A. On the DuPont side walls, construction 5 Q. All right. When you say "two weeks," 5 was tile, high-temp. mineral wool block and 6 is that two weeks total for both of those 6 mineral wool felt, and those materials I do not 7 times? 7 believe contained asbestos. 8 A. No, the first one was one to two weeks 8 Q. Let's move on to Bethlehem Steel. 9 in one case. Another case they said it was two 9 What do you have next? 10 to three, so one to three weeks the first time 10 A. Bethlehem would be easier. 11 in '67, and the second one was about one to two 11 Q. Okay. What kind of work did 12 weeks. 12 Mr. Tredinnick describe at Bethlehem Steel? 13 Q. All right. So for the first one in 13 A. He described a project in the '69 to 14 1967, did that involve working with or around 14 '70 time frame on the Riley boiler where they 15 any insulation materials on the boiler? 15 did superheat repair work. 16 A. At that job he was a helper and he 16 Q. How long did that work take? 17 basically said that he was supporting two 17 A. Approximately a month. 18 crews, one crew that worked inside the boiler 18 Q. And did he say that he did any work 19 and that handed him out primarily metal parts 19 that would have involved work with or around 20 that would not have contained asbestos. And 20 any product that contained asbestos? 21 half the time was with them and half the time 21 A. He said that he helped to put an 22 was with a crew over his head that were handing 22 opening in the roof of the boiler so that they 23 him down stuff in buckets that was described as 23 could get to the superheater elements and 24 round, white, chalky that he stated was 24 remove them, and that was the boiler we talked 231 233 1 asbestos material, but he also said he didn't 1 about before that had high-temp. block from 2 really know if it was asbestos. 2 BEH. 3 Q. Did he describe that product? Are you 3 Q. All right. And you testified before 4 able to tell what that product was? 4 whether or not you thought it contained 5 A. Based on his description, I'm not even 5 asbestos. How long would it have taken to 6 sure it came off the Riley boiler. It could 6 remove that block based on the work that 7 have came off piping up there. He mentioned 7 Mr. Tredinnick described? 8 the air duct, but I don't know if they were 8 MR. VONA: Objection. 9 actually taking it off the air duct. 9 A. He described it taking approximately 10 Q. Well, that raises a good point. If 10 two days to make the hole in the boiler. 11 Riley erects a boiler at a jobsite like DuPont, 11 Q. Did he do any other work at Bethlehem 12 does Riley put up all the piping that's 12 Steel according to his testimony? 13 connected to that boiler? 13 A. There was, later on, I believe it was 14 A. No. 14 after '74 he was working for the Bethlehem 15 Q. Who's responsible for that? 15 Steel company itself, one of their groups, and 16 A. The owner's other contractors were 16 he did some work on the ductwork beside the 17 responsible for that. 17 boiler. 18 Q. All right. What about the second time 18 Q. How long did that work take? 19 that Mr. Tredinnick was at DuPont from the '69 19 A. I think that was approximately one 20 to '71 time frame, did he describe working with 20 week. 21 any materials -- with or around any materials 21 Q. Which one do you have next, Hooker or 22 that contained asbestos? 22 GM? 23 A. I believe there he stated he worked on 23 A. Hooker. 24 some side wall repairs and some other 24 Q. What kind of work did Mr. Tredinnick 59 (Pages 230 to 233) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 234 236 1 describe at Hooker Chemical? 1 Q. Are you able to tell -- flat-type 2 A. It was pretty much he did a one- to 2 insulation, are you able to tell whether that 3 two-week stint when he was with Oldman, and 3 is a material that contained asbestos? 4 they took stuff -- he said they took asbestos 4 A. No, because on this project, we did 5 off the boiler, worked on valves, packings, 5 not supply any insulation or refractory 6 things like that and without any real 6 material. Union Iron Works did not. And the 7 specifics. 7 second -- those were three boilers provided by 8 Q. What does that mean, took asbestos off 8 Union Iron Works. 9 the boilers? 9 The Riley Stoker boiler that was 10 A. He was assuming that the material on 10 provided to Chevy started up in '71, and he 11 the boiler was made out of asbestos, going 11 testified that he was there before his father 12 through leaks apparently. 12 retired, which was December of '70. So this 13 Q. Did he describe what that material 13 boiler was not there when he was on the site. 14 was? Were you able to figure out what he was 14 Q. Okay. Mr. Smith, at least at, I 15 talking about? 15 think, it was Hooker, those boilers were 16 A. He talked about white, chalky 16 erected in the 1940s; is that right? 17 material. 17 A. Hooker had one in '47, one in '49, and 18 Q. Based on that description, are you 18 one in '53 were the in-op dates. 19 able to tell whether or not it contained 19 Q. So even if we took the '53 boiler, if 20 asbestos? 20 Mr. Tredinnick was there six or nine years 21 A. No. On this project, this is where we 21 later, that was 15-plus years after the boiler 22 have the Eagle-Picher Supertemp block or Eagle 22 was erected? 23 for the boiler. 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Okay. And you talked about the 24 Q. How do we know, if we can know, if the 235 237 1 Supertemp. This was the 1946 Supertemp? 1 original insulation on those boilers was still 2 A. Yes. 2 present 15 years later? 3 Q. After they stopped making it in '45? 3 A. We don't know. 4 A. Correct. 4 MR. RADCLIFFE: Those are all the 5 Q. And what year did he say he was at 5 questions I have. 6 Hooker? 6 MR. VONA: Can we go off for one 7 A. They were there in the '69 to '71 7 second? 8 range. 8 MR. RADCLIFFE: Sure. 9 Q. All right. Let's go to GM. Did 9 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 3:56. 10 Mr. Tredinnick describe doing any work at GM on 10 We're off the record. 11 the boilers? 11 (Off the record, 3:56 p.m.) 12 A. He described work at GM on boilers 12 (Back on the record, 3:58 p.m.) 13 removing insulation. 13 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record. 14 Q. And when did that work take place? 14 The time is 3:58. 15 A. In the same time frame, '69 to '71. 15 MR. VONA: The plaintiffs have no 16 Q. And how long was he there? 16 further questions. 17 A. I believe that was approximately one 17 MR. RADCLIFFE: I think we're done. 18 to two weeks also. 18 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the end of 19 Q. And what kind of work did he describe 19 Tape No. 4 in the deposition. The time is 20 for this one to two weeks? 20 3:58. Going off the record. 21 A. It was one to two weeks he removed 21 (Whereupon, the deposition was 22 some flat-type insulation from the boiler 22 concluded at 3:58 p.m.) 23 sides. It took him about one to two days to 23 24 remove it. 24 60 (Pages 234 to 237) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 1 COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS 2 Worcester, ss. 3 4 I, DEANNA L. VEINOTTE, a Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public in and 5 for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, do hereby certify that the foregoing deposition 6 was taken before me on September 11, 2009; That the witness named in the deposition 7 provided satisfactory evidence of identification as prescribed by Executive Order 8 455 (03-13) issued by the Governor of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts before being 9 sworn by me; That said deposition was taken before me at 10 the time and place therein set forth, and was taken down by me in shorthand and thereafter 11 transcribed into typewriting under my direction and supervision; 12 That said deposition is a true record of the testimony given by the witness and of all 13 objections made at the time of the examination. I further certify that I am neither counsel 14 for nor related to any party to said action, nor in any way interested in the outcome 15 thereof. IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have subscribed my 16 name and affixed my seal this 25th day of September, 2009. 17 18 DEANNA L. VEINOTTE, RPR, CRR, CCP Notary Public 19 My Commission expires: February 7, 2014 20 21 PLEASE NOTE: 22 THE FOREGOING CERTIFICATION OF THIS TRANSCRIPT DOES NOT APPLY TO ANY REPRODUCTION 2 3 OF THE SAME BY ANY MEANS UNLESS UNDER THE DIRECT CONTROL AND/OR DIRECTION OF THE 24 CERTIFYING REPORTER. 1 September 25, 2009 2 3 Jason M. Saul, Esq. 4 CETRULO & CAPONE 2 Seaport Lane, 10th Floor 5 Boston, MA 02210 6 Re: EARL AND KIMBERLY TREDINNICK 7 Vs: A.W. CHESTERTON, et al. C.A. No.: I2008-10509 9 Dear Attorney Saul: 10 Enclosed herewith is a copy of the 11 deposition transcript of MICHAEL SMITH taken on September 11, 2009, in the above-captioned 12 case. According to the Massachusetts Rules of 13 Civil Procedure, the witness has 30 days to read and sign the deposition transcript. 14 Please have the witness read and sign the signature page/errata sheet. If the witness 15 has not read and signed the original signature page within 30 days from the above date, it 16 will be deemed signed. Please have the witness forward the signed 17 signature page/errata sheet to Attorney Vona so that he may attach same to the original 18 deposition transcript. Thank you in advance for your cooperation in this matter. 19 20 Sincerely, 21 Deanna L. Veinotte 22 23 cc: All Counsel of Record 24 238 240 1 SIGNATURE - ERRATA SHEET 2 PAGE LINE CORRECTIONS, ADDITION OR DELETION 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 I, MICHAEL SMITH, have read the foregoing transcript of my deposition taken on September 14 11. Except for any corrections or changes noted above, I hereby subscribe to the 15 transcript as an accurate record of the statements made by me. 16 Signed under the penalties of perjury, 17DATE. Deponent, MICHAEL SMITH 18 On this, the____ day of2009, 19 before me, the undersigned notary public, personally appeared,Deponent, 20 proved to me through satisfactory evidence of identification, which was,to be the 21 person whose name is signed on the preceding document in my presence. 22 23 (Signature and seal of notary) 2 4 My Commission expires: 239 241 1 2 INSTRUCTIONS TO DEPONENT 3 4 After reading this volume of your deposition, 5 indicate any corrections or changes to your 6 testimony and the reasons therefor on the 7 Errata Sheet supplied to you, and sign it. 8 DO NOT MAKE MARKS OR NOTATIONS ON THE 9 TRANSCRIPT VOLUME ITSELF! 10 11 12 ERRATA SHEET HANDLING/DISTRIBUTION 13 14 The original of the Errata Sheet has been 15 delivered to Jason Saul, Esq. When the Errata 16 Sheet has been completed by the deponent and 17 signed, a copy thereof should be delivered to 18 each party of record and the ORIGINAL thereof 19 delivered to Keith Vona, Esq., to whom the 20 original deposition transcript was delivered. 21 PLEASE REPLACE THIS PAGE OF THE TRANSCRIPT WITH 22 THE COMPLETED AND SIGNED ERRATA SHEET WHEN YOU RECEIVE IT. 23 24 61 (Pages 238 to 241) Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 242 A abbreviation 116:14 ability 38:19 215:5 able 124:20 166:7 169:17 229:9 231:4 234:14,19 236:1,2 above-captioned 239:11 absolutely 45:5 193:20 226:24 accelerated 188:1 acceptable 8:13 access 96:9 98:21 124:19 215:9 account 177:3,5 180:21,23 accounting 181:4,9 accumulated 15:14 accurate 20:10 187:21 189:14 240:15 Act 137:4 action 238:14 actual 13:1 82:18 85:22 add 143:12 226:19 added 15:20 adding 22:24 23:15 addition 24:4 149:6 240:2 additional 23:9 57:22 58:19 78:24 82:13 110:21 130:16 131:5 153:5 172:16 176:7,19 address 14:24 addressed 192:8 admissible 50:7 admit 198:10 admitted 198:11 advance 239:18 advent 35:21 207:12 aerator 121:3 affixed 238:16 aftermarket 19:16 20:3 afternoon 148:8,9 Agency 5:7 136:15 136:19 ago 9:13 10:3 16:2 37:14 agree 24:21 43:7 44:16,21 45:15 60:11 63:20 64:16 68:12 69:24 71:22 75:5,8 77:7 78:7 79:20 81:24 83:13 84:20,24 85:5,17,24 87:21 91:22 95:8 98:2 100:14 101:24 102:7 103:6 104:18 105:2,12 106:7 108:4,14,23 109:2 109:10111:19 117:8,18 118:17 121:23 126:4,11 127:8 132:10 138:4 138:7 140:8 142:6 143:4,20,24 144:20 145:3 151:9 152:8 155:6,11 156:15 159:13 160:13 161:3 162:24 163:1 163:11 166:7,9 170:18 174:3 181:16 182:11 183:3 186:9 191:12 192:20 193:4,8 199:23 201:24 225:23 agreeable 226:11 agreed 59:17 77:11 97:22 104:1 225:19 227:3 ahead 41:7 56:3 60:8 69:19 76:3 102:12 130:11 183:14 195:22 196:6 air 53:5,9,23 54:1,11 70:17 77:21 78:23 91:14 94:4,6,13 96:9 149:8,11 150:24 151:3,7 152:15 158:3,7,12 158:16 160:13,15 161:11 163:2 164:10,12,13,15,16 199:16 200:13 203:18 231:8,9 airtight 223:13 al 1:9 7:15 38:12 239:7 alive 12:4 13:4 alleged 210:22 Allis-Chalmers 38:11 allocation 118:14 allowed 22:2 40:3 allowing 39:15 183:5 allows 41:2 alluded 17:18 amenable 226:20 amount 134:7 139:9 146:4 analysis 101:18 analyze 43:20 AND/OR 238:23 angles 159:4 161:15 161:17 162:6,8,10 162:13 answer 10:16,20 36:16,24 42:20 43:14 81:4 83:24 86:6 113:3 126:8 182:15 206:6 207:5 answered 38:17 39:6 42:16 43:4 92:5 139:19 169:24 196:6 204:1 answering 41:20 199:1 Answers 4:14 105:24 106:8 218:4 anticipation 13:20 anybody 8:19 17:13 30:23 207:15,16 220:19 anyway 102:3 129:13 155:8 apologize 56:1 152:24 apparent 195:11 apparently 234:12 appear 20:22 36:24 appeared 16:18 17:1 240:19 appearing 10:14 11:7 11:10 36:22 application 81:19 131:19 200:4 201:22 205:10 206:2 224:1 applications 67:5 124:13 151:18 applied 64:19,20 71:16 72:12 87:9 141:6 153:15 157:10 159:15 229:2 applies 11:5 151:17 160:15 apply 153:18 154:1 161:5,12 162:4 238:22 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109:3,5,19 111:22 113:13,24 123:6 125:6 126:9 128:20 129:2,21 130:15 136:4,20 137:3,4,17 137:23 138:2,8 139:22 140:8,10 144:2 145:5 146:11 147:9,17 154:3,7 155:3,7,10 164:1,4 165:2 168:10,14,18 169:2,16 179:21 182:11 186:11 187:1 191:4,10 192:16,21 193:5,14 193:23 194:3,9,17 194:19 195:3,8,12 196:9,11,13,22 200:17,23 201:22 202:5,15,16,22,23 205:14,15,21 206:1 206:10,23 207:2,7 210:23 211:4,19 217:22 218:6,12,13 218:21 219:3 220:16,24 225:7,16 225:20 226:1,15,23 230:20 231:1,2,22 232:3,7,20 233:5 234:4,8,11,20 236:3 asbestos-containing 32:1,19 33:9 34:2 34:20 57:3,16,22 58:19 59:18 67:15 68:14 71:5 73:5 74:2 75:24 81:1 89:24 91:10 99:2 107:18 110:24 111:4 113:8 122:22 123:14,17,24 126:6 126:13,19 127:10 127:21 131:12 135:17 139:17 143:22 144:21,22 155:13 163:3,13,21 185:10 194:4 195:13 196:3,20 203:4,9 205:5 aside42:23 93:5 119:21 asked 20:18 41:20 42:15 43:3 59:3 92:5 139:18 168:9 196:6 198:19 204:1 217:14 219:1,11 226:22 asking 17:9 29:23 35:3 36:20 37:9,10 42:2,10,19 46:15 50:2 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braided 33:20 break 66:24 84:6 86:19 205:11 224:20 breakdown 119:19 131:3 breaks 96:1 190:4 breeching 172:20 Bridgeport 209:12 brief 125:24 briefly 18:24 90:13 132:9 133:16 150:24 bring 60:19 90:14 brought 15:13 buckets 230:23 Buffalo 2:4,14,18,22 9:11 52:6 177:13 181:11 building 2:21 21:1 153:18 built 175:11 bumped 95:11 bunch 44:3 76:3 burner 151:4 burners 21:24 22:3 bush 169:9 business 21:11 49:14 49:18,21,22 50:2,11 115:1 buy 25:11 92:24 134:7 buyer 212:12 213:5,8 buying 43:22 44:3,8 93:2 128:4 B-H 137:13 B-1705 103:8 110:3 115:5 B-1808 120:9 B-2017 131:24 133:10 B-2216 148:15 150:14 B-2430 51:23 69:12 C C 2:1 5:18 7:2 52:11 52:14 55:18 72:7,8 82:21 174:6,10 call 27:20 39:19 46:20 124:23 called 14:8 46:18 47:2,5 48:2 75:23 82:15 133:19 195:12 Calls 27:2 72:19 195:22 camera 208:8 capitalized 105:10 Capone 1:16 2:10 7:9 8:6 239:4 caption 7:11 106:15 card 116:9 168:6 career 199:12 careful 187:2 Carey 63:4,15,17 154:20,21 156:3 carpenters 209:7 carry 92:24 cars 44:9 case 7:11 8:23 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Corp 22:20 52:6 87:7 165:19 228:4 corporate 11:8 20:23 39:18 195:18 corporation 38:11 56:14 87:18 141:6 154:19,21 156:3 176:1 192:9 194:18 199:20 200:1 correct 10:15 13:9 18:7 21:12,15 25:15 27:5 29:11,16 30:9 30:23 36:9 38:21 44:13 46:8,12,17,23 47:2 48:16 49:3 51:18,20,23 52:7,12 53:2 54:9 55:20 56:13 58:16 59:8,15 59:23 62:2 68:1 69:14 70:13,18 71:17 73:15 75:1 76:19 78:2,12 87:23 95:2 97:4 98:1 99:8 99:20 104:20 115:21 116:3 127:22 133:21 138:21 148:23 153:3 154:22 157:11 159:11,22 166:15 170:9 171:19 172:4 174:11 176:17 193:14 235:4 correction 133:19 134:1 135:9 179:10 corrections 240:2,14 241:5 correctly 161:11 200:24 corresponds 200:15 cost 66:6 117:23 118:1,18 156:10 costs 122:9 156:21 cost-plus 177:14 counsel 6:5 40:8 219:5,8 238:13 239:23 count 127:20 130:23 country 215:20 County 1:4 7:16 couple 19:12,17 22:13 37:14 84:7 174:9 210:12 course 49:20 50:1,11 114:24 court 1:4 7:15,20 15:16 17:1 106:12 courtroom 16:19 cover 38:8 51:3 103:7 106:5 120:6 170:17 199:6 204:24 211:22 covered 65:21 80:20 99:14 159:5 162:13 211:23 covering 71:1 76:14 95:18 96:8 161:15 184:24 185:14 covers 33:13 crafts 209:13 Crane 8:22 67:24 68:5,6,9 create 29:16 62:11 210:14 created 49:19 50:1 50:10 51:17 136:18 142:7 159:11 crew 230:18,22 crews 230:18 crossover 70:12 CRR1:21 238:18 curious 178:2 current 13:18 curved 222:21 customer 24:11 32:13,14,15 88:8 92:23 116:9 156:22 157:3 166:21 167:5 167:9 184:3 186:6 214:12 215:7,11 customers 25:5 32:9 44:19 57:24 58:6 59:2 79:15 167:1,12 168:5,11,15,20 169:3,17 185:20 214:4 cut 37:10 56:2 98:20 101:20 153:1 210:15 cylindrical 200:19,21 C.A 239:7 D D 3:1 7:2 daily 210:5 Dallas 208:22 209:5 210:2 damage 94:22 142:14 damaged 94:21 95:11 dangerous 30:21 database 168:6 169:17 date7:6 76:20 145:6 166:3,10,12,15 187:16 190:12 192:5 229:11,14 239:15 240:17 dated 3:18,19,20,21 4:4,7,11,17,18,19 5:4,5,6,12,13,14,16 5:17,19,20,21,23,24 6:1,2 37:16 50:17 51:22 56:9 59:5 69:6,10 80:7 102:9 103:10 114:4 120:3 120:11 121:17 131:8 132:23 133:5 136:13 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145:7,20,24 148:18 150:9,12,21 152:20 154:11 156:23 157:15 159:11 167:11 170:3 174:5 175:18 179:23 183:20 187:7,10 Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 249 193:17 198:4,6,15 201:21 204:4 217:2 217:4 219:15,24 220:7 240:21 documents 14:12,17 14:19 15:5 17:6,17 17:17 37:4 49:1,2 49:13 51:13,16,17 63:8 64:15,22 66:7 66:9 73:3 85:19 87:1 88:11 92:6 99:18 102:16 112:1 114:9 116:5 121:13 133:13 145:16 148:16 149:23 157:3 171:16,18 172:1 173:4,9 175:9 187:20 223:1 225:4 225:6,10,13,15 227:21 228:2,4,5,7 228:11 doing 10:2 20:17 44:2 47:16,22 55:15 100:16 118:10 156:20 179:15 202:2,10 213:23 217:13 229:22 235:10 dollars 114:22 122:5 downcomers 90:11 90:12 draw 88:4 drawing6:2 82:18 87:6 88:1,4 97:4,5 141:14 160:20 161:1 197:15 drawings 127:7 133:22 161:22,24 drum28:23 61:13 82:19,20 96:22 200:15,18,22 201:6 203:9,12,16 drums 29:4,5 90:16 128:13 130:23 172:21 199:17 dry 137:15 153:21 154:2 duct 70:17 77:19,21 78:23 91:14 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8:10 10:11 39:20 either 10:6 44:12 46:9,16 78:14 162:23 212:17 213:8 Electrochemical 103:12 115:4 133:6 141:8 elements 100:24 101:8,8,19 232:23 eliminated 33:3 Elliptical 56:22 ELLISTON 2:7 employed 178:7,8,19 179:20 182:7 201:12,14 employee 20:16 156:16 166:1 190:20 201:9 employees 17:10 36:3 185:19 emulsion 64:23 encased 98:16 Enclosed 239:10 encompass 51:17 ends 70:12 Eng 80:21 engineer 18:12,20 19:5,7 68:18 192:3 199:14 209:6 212:18 engineering 18:7 151:14 204:19,21 205:12 England 27:15 entire 65:21 101:3 210:5 211:7 entirely 45:20 entitled 80:12 136:20 entry 108:2 188:12 environmental 5:6 22:8 136:15,19 EPA 137:2,22 154:10 156:2 219:22 220:7 220:8,9,13 equal 105:3 145:18 145:22 146:3,15 217:10 equipment 5:18 21:20,24 23:6,9 24:5,16 30:17 52:9 54:20 103:15 147:1 149:6 152:16 174:6 174:11,14 175:12 178:22 179:3 182:1 212:1,4,12 214:9 erect 30:19 48:11 60:16 erected 214:14 228:19 229:4 236:16,22 erection 12:21 55:4 61:4 124:9 193:16 193:18 208:14,24 209:2,14 228:21 229:1,20 erector 134:6,13,16 134:18 135:12 erects 231:11 Erie 1:4 7:16 19:23 22:12,16 171:1 Errata 240:1 241:7 241:12,14,15,22 Esq 2:5,5,9,12,15,19 2:23 239:3 241:15 241:19 Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 250 essentially 12:19 25:20 121:10 establish 175:9 established 58:15 83:1 91:18 98:13 99:13,18 109:18 164:7 168:2 189:7 estimate 85:15 114:13,21 116:20 117:23 118:14 122:12 162:1 estimating 118:18 122:9 et 1:9 7:14 38:12 239:7 eventually 22:16 127:5 everybody 36:21 evidence 238:7 240:20 exact 76:20 121:10 exactly 36:17 40:4 42:17 120:14,15,21 121:12 155:16 167:14 202:2 examination 3:5,6 9:6 208:4 238:13 example 48:3 202:7,9 203:6 205:9 exceed 177:14 exception 50:3 excess 26:18 Executive 238:7 exhibit 16:9,12 37:16 50:17 56:9,12 59:5 61:16 64:4,7 67:17 69:6 71:8 76:10 80:7 81:6 86:21 102:9 104:11 105:22 106:4 109:22 114:4 120:3 121:17 125:11,14 125:17,20 127:14 129:15 131:8 132:23 136:13 138:5,24 140:1 147:23 148:1,18,21 150:9 152:20 165:7 165:9 170:3 174:5 175:18,21 179:23 183:15 187:7 190:6 191:16 197:15 204:4 216:24 218:9 220:1 221:1 exhibits 1:2 6:5 91:20 126:5 216:13 existing 22:24 185:16 expanded 89:12 91:16 expanding 23:24 expansion 33:1 expedite 127:7 experience 141:24 208:12 expert 24:9,13,14,17 24:22 25:2,7,15 44:5,13 expertise 119:14 experts 24:8 43:19 44:6,9 168:21 expires 238:19 240:24 explain 23:12 212:14 exposed 70:12 85:8 86:2,3,9,12 94:5,11 96:10,14,15 98:23 99:2 100:17 102:3 111:22 113:12,24 146:11 147:8 159:4 164:19,22 165:1,5 exposure 210:22 211:3,19 225:7,16 226:1,15 extended 53:12 extent 11:3 39:13 229:14 exterior 62:18 80:19 90:17 external 62:22 65:19 99:12 E.I215:1 228:13 _________F fab 159:9 fabricating 21:11 fabrication 13:1 facilities 22:14 171:3 facility 19:23 22:11 22:12,17 192:11 fact 37:14 60:2 62:4 65:2 105:10 118:3 120:18 124:16 149:15 195:1 206:8 227:1 factually 49:24 50:10 fair 72:21 96:4 100:17 168:2 193:3 Falls 103:13 131:23 133:7 141:9 149:3 153:14 228:13 familiar 68:19 105:15 fans 24:15 121:2 far 22:4 29:8 47:1 54:21 76:17 85:22 196:12 206:2 210:1 212:23 220:18 fashion 123:17 fast 126:3 fasten 159:20 faster 186:17 father 236:11 favor 98:7 Fax 1:24 2:6,9,12,15 2:19,23 February 5:6,16 103:10 136:14 165:10 166:4 209:2 238:19 feed 70:15 feeder 110:19 111:15 111:21 113:4,12,16 113:23 145:12 146:11 feel 9:17 56:7 208:8 feet 26:12,14,18,19 26:20 28:5,5,6,7 71:23 72:7 77:22 78:5,20,24 81:19 82:8,22 85:18 109:11 110:6,17 111:12,16 140:9 143:8 144:10,11,13 144:15 210:10,12 214:3 felt 183:10 232:6 fiber 137:17 field 12:20 13:6 112:16,23 133:23 134:21 135:6 139:13 188:9,10,19 189:2 194:7,9,14 208:13,18,20,23 209:1,6,19 211:2,8 228:20 figure 234:14 filed 106:9 207:1 filing 203:7 filled 63:11 final 83:10 187:14,17 finally 123:5,9 find 35:16,17 74:19 107:12 156:4,6 184:23 fine 12:3 15:4,11 19:3 28:3 40:14 41:8 42:19 48:22 56:4 88:18 142:21 189:16 198:2 203:17 206:21 225:22 finger 89:2 finish 41:2 80:21 111:3 156:11 180:15 finished 148:13 159:7 210:19 227:2 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215:22,23 233:22 235:9,10,12 go 9:17 38:8 39:14 40:2 41:7 42:18 43:20 44:9 46:8,10 47:23 48:4,10 52:22 58:3,6 60:8 65:10 66:14 69:19 70:10 71:22 76:3 81:17 82:18 87:14 89:3 92:8,24 102:11 103:5 109:14 114:7 116:13 120:13 124:14 126:20,21 127:1 128:15,18,18 129:14,19 130:8,11 132:8 135:23 137:10 141:22 144:14 149:5 153:10 157:3 Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 252 161:22 173:11 174:17 177:7 179:1 195:22 196:6 199:6 199:7 200:10 215:6 225:18 227:7 229:18 235:9 237:6 going8:9 9:20 16:24 29:15 39:17,17,19 39:19 40:16,17,18 40:22 41:1042:18 43:22 44:4,7 74:8 77:18 84:15,15 86:20,20 93:23 98:8 104:18 106:3 109:7 110:20111:6 112:12,13 115:10 118:12 119:11 127:1 129:16 132:20 140:24 145:1 148:20 150:19 152:5 154:9 159:3 161:16 168:22 170:6 174:17 175:20 186:1 197:5,6 199:7 200:11 208:6 211:21 212:21 218:8 224:10 226:13 234:11 237:20 GOLDBERG 2:17 good 9:8,9 16:6 25:24 84:18 107:17 109:14 123:12 140:15 148:8,9 231:10 Governor 238:8 granules 137:16 gray 91:3,4 group 12:22 19:21,22 19:24 20:3,5 58:2 59:1 groups 233:15 guarantee 186:5 Guenther 191:21 Guenther's 193:2 guess 68:18 guessing 116:16 118:15 guy 21:2 119:4 H H 3:14 139:7 HA 77:19 158:1,11 half 19:8,15 162:14 213:15 230:21,21 halfway 108:11 half-rounds 222:21 hall 46:11 handed 230:19 handhole 124:23,24 125:4 126:23 129:8 129:12,21 130:15 131:4,17 handholes 33:13 61:14 128:13,14 196:10 handing 16:5 230:22 handled 118:15,16 HANDLING/DIST... 241:12 hands 124:21 handy 66:10 happen 40:19 119:1 127:2 212:16 happened 170:21 Harbison 107:1 Harbor 209:12 hard 152:5 222:20 harmful 195:15 Hart 191:6 hazard 206:23 207:11 hazardous 206:4 207:8 211:16 hazards 37:7,9 168:10,14,17 169:2 169:15 179:21 182:11,17 186:10 195:3,7 207:7 210:21 211:3 225:7 225:14,16,20,24 226:14,17,22 head 201:6 230:22 header 53:12,14,21 57:14,16 70:22 100:11 101:11,13 101:22,22 112:10 124:15,21 headers 29:1 61:14 78:15,19 90:16 99:8 99:23 100:3,12,21 101:9,20 111:9,10 112:4,5,9,12 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131:23 133:6 139:6 140:4 141:8 146:8,9 148:14 216:1,3,8,9 216:10,11,19 228:6 233:21,23 234:1 235:6 236:15,17 hope 130:10 148:10 hoppers 172:19 hot 29:11,13,17 70:17 77:21 78:23 91:14 94:4,6,13 96:2,9 150:24 151:3 152:15 158:3,7,12 163:2 164:12,13 hour 13:16 house 22:20 26:16 153:19 156:12 212:7 HSBC 2:14 Hubbard 209:9 hydro 128:15 hydrostatically 229:4 I Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 253 idea 21:17 27:22 35:9 36:12 102:22 125:3 136:10 146:17 181:5 195:2,6 200:2 205:19 identification 238:7 240:20 identified 9:3 identify 7:19 Identifying 136:21 III 1:6 7:13 11:21 impeached 41:7 impeaching 41:5 inch 94:10 111:17 144:14 162:14 inches 83:2,3,3,4 97:16 98:3 110:18 222:19 incident 182:5 Incidentally 131:11 include 124:7 152:2 212:20 226:15 included 48:9 includes 227:1 including 188:14 209:13 226:1,2 incomplete 186:2 incorporate 22:6 24:6,10 25:5 29:22 34:1,19 43:9 incorporated 31:7 32:1 35:5 36:2,13 41:14 43:1 62:1 incorporates 29:18 incorrectly 224:11 independent 162:12 Index 1:7 7:16 indicate 64:22 74:9 158:8 220:13 241:5 indicated 95:5 130:1 indicates 62:4 67:24 68:4 70:17 78:1 156:16 177:4 220:15 individual 186:21 individuals 182:21 industrial 19:9,13 27:21 28:9 31:20 Industries 106:9 information 12:9 15:14 35:20 127:6 136:21 137:1,4 169:18 211:22 213:4,4,14 220:8,14 220:20,23 222:15 ingredient 222:10 initial 57:17 58:15 60:9 61:4,9 84:22 166:10,22 179:6 initials 129:4,6 injurious 87:19 injury 142:13 input 141:24 insert 185:2 inside 53:16 90:19 95:1 100:5,8,9,14 101:1,1 156:12 223:15 230:18 install 45:17 46:10 48:16 149:20,24 167:4 installation 46:13 57:6,10,18 58:16 60:10 62:14 84:22 117:11 118:21,24 149:16 166:22 179:6 210:3 223:10 installed 116:7 132:12 149:20 167:9 170:7 172:3,8 172:10 179:13 185:21 209:9 Installing 46:2 instance 12:23 63:13 135:11 178:21 181:16 instruct 113:1 instructions 177:8 185:2,13,16 241:2 insulate 151:22 160:15 203:8 insulated 53:9,11,15 53:19,24 54:5,6,12 68:24 69:2,3,24 70:4 78:4 80:19 89:13,15 90:22,24 91:2 98:3 100:13 103:24 104:2 113:5 113:7 149:12 154:1 164:8 insulating 70:24 75:16 108:2 109:15 110:22 135:14 136:8 138:6 139:7 144:4 151:19 158:19 162:21 163:12 165:1 192:16 201:3 203:11,15 221:10 insulation 2:16 8:16 29:18,22 30:3 31:6 31:8,10,13 32:5 34:2,12,16,21 35:1 35:6,7,10,15,19 36:1,4,13 37:7 39:6 41:14,19,22,23,24 42:4,7,10,24 45:18 46:2,7,9 47:9 48:11 48:12,14 53:1 62:12 64:19,20 65:20 67:5 69:21 70:9,22,23 71:17,20,21 72:11 72:12,23 73:20 74:2 74:21 75:7,15,23 76:23 77:11 78:5 79:4,17,21 80:2,20 81:1,14,19 83:14 85:8,11,12 86:2,7 87:8,9 89:7,11 91:3 91:9,14,16 93:16,17 94:5,9,11,12,19 95:6,20,23 96:8,11 96:15 98:9,13,21,23 100:18,23 102:3 103:17 104:22 110:17 111:23 112:7 113:11,22 117:1,11,20 118:3 118:11,19,24 119:11 121:24 122:10,17 132:12 141:6,21 143:4 145:13,14 146:3,10 147:6,7 149:17,18 150:1,13,16 151:20 152:18 153:16 154:1 157:11 158:9 158:10,14,17 159:1 159:6,9,15,17,18 160:14 161:5,6 162:4,18 163:2 164:12,17,21 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07932 718-983-1234 265 154:15 180:15 197:7 208:18 225:14,15 228:7 229:5,6 started 9:14 18:19 19:4 20:11,20 21:7 21:19 22:19,24 60:24 127:5 133:24 171:6 176:21 197:9 208:20 210:15 211:11,18 224:14 224:16 236:10 starting 228:12 starts 137:11 228:21 start-up 185:24 state 1:3 7:15 75:22 stated 13:5 36:17 41:22 161:4 171:22 230:24 231:23 statement 160:14 173:6 statements 219:4,7,8 240:15 states 9:4 177:11 199:8 217:9 state-of-the-art 25:9 stating 159:14 162:3 196:13 Station 209:12 stayed 210:18 Std 80:21 steam 25:22,22 28:23 29:16 30:4 53:17 204:13 212:23 steam-generating 23:8,18 steel 14:18 28:15 33:13,14 51:4,8 52:6,20 56:13,14 59:7 61:21 64:16 65:22,23 66:8 67:22 69:13 71:16 80:12 80:18 81:2,13 85:13 87:6 94:17 95:6 104:23 123:4 172:19,21 228:4 232:8,12 233:12,15 step 39:12 189:1 sticker 87:11 88:16 141:4 143:16 157:10 158:23 160:2 stint 234:3 stipulate 11:7,9 50:3 50:6,9 stipulation 49:13 stoker 10:15,17,19 11:8,13 16:19 18:17 20:12,22 21:5,10,19 23:1 24:3,21 25:13 26:3,7 29:18,21 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strike 58:12,13 70:1 108:24 168:22 174:4 202:11 220:18 223:19 225:23 226:13 striking 226:20 structural 172:19 structure 210:6 struggling 25:1 stuff 18:2 23:15,19 51:19 230:23 232:1 234:4 subbed 55:12,13 subcontracted 191:7 subject 190:16 submit 107:17 136:18 156:21 166:6 198:8,10 submitted 137:1 220:20 subscribe 240:14 subscribed 238:15 subsidiary 171:9,12 174:1 successfully 229:6 suffering 12:7 sufficient 153:20 suggest 121:9 187:16 suggestion 203:20 suitable 200:16 201:3 202:4,5,14 Suite 1:23 2:8,18 summaries 137:1 summary 51:7,7 69:17 136:24 141:15 148:22 220:4 summer 209:8 Super 108:2 superheader 100:9 superheaders 101:4 superheat 232:15 superheater 53:5,8 53:10,11,12,14,15 53:18 70:12,22 78:19 99:7 100:20 232:23 superheaters 29:8 100:15 superintendent 55:1 55:14 104:5 116:19 117:4 118:5,9,10,19 118:22,23 122:5 132:15 150:6 178:21 Supertemp 105:7,15 108:22 109:11,19 110:7 111:12 121:7 143:21 144:1 145:21 146:5 147:8 147:16 217:16,18 217:22 218:10,13 218:16,20 219:2 234:22 235:1,1 supervise 119:4,5,14 supervised 209:12 supervising 55:3 156:16 194:23 209:6 210:3 supervision 117:10 179:3 238:11 supplied 14:16 23:10 Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 266 53:4 63:24 72:12,15 73:20 78:8 90:2 91:19,23 98:14 99:19 103:21 118:4 126:15 129:17 132:11 139:22 172:14,18 173:2 174:14 182:1 190:2 190:3 223:12 241:7 supplier 63:21 68:5 83:14 suppliers 222:3,6,15 supply 48:11 53:1 57:21 58:9 68:9 73:2 76:5 118:3 139:16 140:9 149:16 152:14 153:19 172:16 175:13 178:15 189:6,17,22,23 236:5 supplying 103:17 126:6 152:10,17 supporting 172:18 230:17 supposed 97:7 129:9 159:15 228:24 Supreme 1:4 7:15 sure 22:7 28:18 38:2 42:14 48:21 56:5 61:15 67:13 76:20 93:1 94:23 115:15 135:8 182:19 183:4 186:1 188:6 201:20 231:6 237:8 surface 80:19 201:5 surfaces 70:9 141:15 153:18,24 surrounding 200:17 Susan 38:10 suspected 47:8 194:2 swear 7:21 sworn 9:3 238:9 system 101:10 116:9 158:7 185:1,14 S-U-P-T 54:22 116:18 T T 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term 41:24 75:7 87:24 124:16,17 135:10 142:3,4 terminology 82:17 93:10 152:7 terms 134:3 test 45:7,11 60:23 130:3 tested 45:9,10 60:17 128:2 229:5,6 testified 13:10 45:2 49:2 51:12 57:1 76:17,23 101:1,7 102:5 112:6 113:10 113:21 147:5 195:1 195:2 206:22 207:4 223:20 233:3 236:11 testily 73:24 testimony 17:7 27:5 34:8 35:22 36:9 37:12 39:3,10,14 40:17,21 41:5,12 101:12 206:17 208:15 233:12 238:12 241:6 testing 130:22 Texas 208:22 209:5,9 210:2 Thank 11:17 16:6 26:1 43:5 80:6 97:8 98:12 106:16 109:9 114:3 122:19 128:24 190:5 205:18 239:18 Thanks 38:4 160:4 216:21 therefor 241:6 thereof 238:15 241:17,18 thermal 195:7 205:20 206:3 207:11 Thermotex 153:19 154:2,3,7 155:12 156:4,13 163:16,20 163:24 164:3,24 165:4 219:11,15,20 220:20,21 Thermotex-B 64:23 67:2,7 155:1,5,7,9 155:19 219:16,20 219:22 220:21,24 Thermotex-type 223:24 they'd 46:8 112:13 189:23 thick71:24 72:4 83:2 110:18 141:20 152:17 154:2 214:3 222:19 thickness 152:2 153:20 thicknesses 109:13 143:4 151:19 thing 25:8,10 76:2 90:7 95:3,24 102:6 122:12 144:24 151:8 153:9 163:7 177:20 192:24 203:21 things 13:11 23:23 30:3 102:20 114:16 127:7 135:5 188:1 195:10 212:20 226:18 234:6 think 28:6 36:17 37:22 40:16 41:4,6 Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 267 42:8,12,13 47:7 73:6,14 84:18 102:5 107:2 114:13 116:16 121:11,15 122:20 126:14 129:9 130:9 138:14 139:10 140:20 144:10 145:23 161:23 169:24 175:1,3,8 182:20 188:17 192:1 194:1 196:7,12 197:3,9 227:11 233:19 236:15 237:17 third 32:5 44:4 47:15 126:15 third-party 22:5 24:5 222:3,6,14 THOMAS 2:9 thought 13:12 135:23 192:2 207:8 233:4 thousand 138:21 three 19:19 29:4,5 42:18 115:9,13,16 115:19,20,20,22 116:1 140:17,21 158:20 170:8,13 172:3,7 176:16 197:3 228:6,11 230:10,10 236:7 throw 66:4 thumbnail 19:1 tie 91:3 159:2 ties 161:2 tile87:7 89:10 232:5 time 7:7,18 13:15 15:14 16:2 20:15,18 32:4 35:15 40:1,15 44:1 50:7 56:3 57:4 59:19,20 60:2 66:16 66:21 79:13 82:2 84:9 108:1,10 109:3 109:6 118:20 121:16 123:5 128:5 130:21 133:23 140:14 145:4 147:19 148:7 156:12 157:8 168:18 170:21 173:12,17 179:1 183:13 194:7 198:11 201:10 204:21 207:14,19 208:2 209:18 210:13,20 211:1,7 226:6 227:9 230:10 230:21,21 231:18 231:20 232:14 235:15 237:9,14,19 238:10,13 times 13:18 33:4 34:19 55:10 58:8 76:3 178:1 204:9 230:7 time-wise 229:10 tire 43:23,24 44:8 title 111:6 114:13 144:4 174:10 199:16 204:17 titled 3:22,23 4:1,2,5 4:8,12,16,20,22,23 5:1,2,8,9,18,22 6:3 38:10 59:10 61:16 64:4,7,18,19,20 67:17 71:8 81:6 104:11 109:22 125:11,14,17,20 127:14 138:24 140:1 174:5 187:7 187:10 204:4,12 today 9:12 10:15,19 10:23 11:8 17:1 23:2 36:22 42:11,22 79:3 135:20 142:4 196:8 211:23 214:6 215:15 219:7 223:21 227:22 Today's 7:6 told 197:11 210:16 Tom 8:3 97:8 117:13 128:24 157:7 216:17 Tonawanda 170:9 177:1 190:17 192:11 Toni 2:19 8:15 tool 124:21 top 56:14 57:11 69:9 71:16 81:14 87:12 129:20 133:4,10 135:24 136:22 137:7 138:16 140:7 142:5 146:2 150:12 157:13 175:24 180:19 181:14 total 85:13 130:23 230:6 totally 101:1 131:20 totals 143:16 touch 101:9,11,13 tough 142:12,15 track 156:17,21 168:3,4 169:3 traditional 13:7 trained 31:2,4 transcribed 238:11 transcript 238:22 239:11,13,18 240:13,15 241:9,20 241:21 Tredinnick 1:6,6 7:13,14 11:21 12:1 13:3 27:1,18 49:4 85:7 86:1,8 96:7 98:19 100:16 111:20 113:10 124:16 140:18 146:7 147:5 164:11 164:16 177:21 178:8 224:12,13,14 224:18,24 228:15 229:19,22 231:19 232:12 233:7,24 235:10 236:20 239:6 Tredinnick's 14:3 227:12 trial 8:11 16:19 50:7 trick 84:24 85:4 113:20 169:13 trim 172:21 trouble 142:21 true 21:9 24:3 29:19 33:24 36:14 39:7 41:15 45:19 51:14 52:14 53:6,19 57:3 59:11 61:3,22 62:5 64:1,13,20 65:3 68:5 69:10 70:5 71:1,22 75:24 76:15 76:24 78:5 80:3 81:20 83:3 85:2,9 86:4 91:20 92:13 93:5 96:11,14 97:19 98:14,23 99:3,15,23 103:8,18 105:4 106:18 109:12,16 109:19 110:3,7,10 111:13 113:24 116:7,22 118:6 120:9 121:20 122:6 122:13 129:2 135:18 138:8,22 142:7 145:15 146:5 149:8,17 150:6 157:4,5,15 162:19 164:9 165:22 167:6 171:12 174:15 182:8 183:20 188:2 190:12 193:23 201:17,21 203:10 205:8 219:10 220:9 220:10,12 238:12 truth 38:19 try 18:1 51:11 102:19 102:21 112:21 120:1 145:24 211:22 trying 45:7 108:9 114:19 115:8 134:2 169:13 179:2 196:15 210:14 tube 88:20 89:13 112:13 135:6 tubes 29:7 62:10,14 62:19,22 110:19 111:16,21 113:4,12 113:17,23 145:12 146:11 223:9 turbine 23:22 Turbines 23:20 turn 37:18 38:23 Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 268 107:14,24 108:18 137:6 154:24 171:3 200:7 204:11 twisted 140:10 two 1:17 12:19 14:7 19:6,8,10,14,14 23:16 29:4 30:3 46:7,13 47:16,22 70:24 129:4 132:6 160:10 191:7 195:10 223:6 230:1 230:5,6,8,9,11,17 233:10 235:18,20 235:21,23 two-week 234:3 two-year 224:20 type 13:2 17:22 26:24 121:19 141:15,16 141:18 203:21 205:9 217:11 221:6 221:20 223:7 typed 184:12 types 21:23 151:20 221:15 typewriting 238:11 U unaware 182:17 underneath 83:12 146:3 undersigned 240:19 understand 48:21 57:8 75:11,13 94:12 100:5 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7:5 66:16,20 84:8 84:13 147:19 148:4 173:12,16 207:19 207:23 226:6 227:8 237:9,13,18 visits 185:20 volume 1:1 14:8 241:4,9 volumes 14:5 Vona 2:5 3:5 6:5 7:23 7:23 8:14,19 9:7,11 10:22 11:6,12,17 12:1,3 14:19,23 15:4,8,11 16:7 34:6 37:23 38:2 40:1,20 41:2,8 49:12,18,22 50:6,15 56:1,7 72:21 76:7 84:5 86:18 97:8 114:19 115:17 117:13 128:24 140:15 145:8 157:7 165:13 168:22 173:11 177:24 188:18,22 197:21 198:1,8,19 198:22 199:1 202:11 206:14 207:13 213:7,17 214:10,18 215:10 216:5,17,21 218:23 224:12 225:8,17 226:19 227:6 228:9 233:8 237:6,15 239:17 241:19 Vreeland 1:23 vs 1:8 239:7 ________ W W 1:6 2:15 7:13 11:21 172:12 229:16 wait 190:14 198:17 206:13 walk 18:23 28:12 96:1 167:4 Walker 107:1 wall 57:12,13,14,15 70:15 88:19,21 89:4 89:5,13 111:10 112:4,5,9,14 145:14 147:6 231:24 walls 29:3 88:21,24 103:21 104:2 111:20 112:8 132:18,22 145:12 232:2,4 want 8:21 16:7,11 21:4 25:8 28:19 37:2 39:16 40:12 44:24 47:24 48:24 50:13 51:10 52:24 56:5,17 60:6 66:14 68:17 79:24 80:16 82:5,8 84:19 86:24 88:16 96:2 107:23 116:24 128:22 135:21 143:12 146:13 147:3 157:23 158:22 166:19 173:4,19 184:16,18 185:5 195:9,10 208:11 215:7,8 216:24 225:18 wanted 25:10 47:24 48:3 65:21 167:19 169:2 wanting 43:23 warn 168:14,20 182:21 warned 168:10,17,21 182:12 186:12 187:4 warning 179:19 183:1 185:10 wasn't 24:12 35:7 83:21 119:4 123:12 186:6 201:13 228:8 water 25:22 29:3 57:12,13,14,15 70:15 88:19,23 89:4 89:4,13 90:14 Priority-One Court Reporting Services, Inc. 25B Vreeland Road, Suite 301, Florham Park, NJ 07932 718-983-1234 269 103:21 104:2 111:9 111:20 112:3,5,7,9 132:17,21 145:12 145:14 147:6 212:6 way 13:3 36:18 48:5 48:6,9 55:21 71:3 78:14 80:24 86:14 86:22 87:19 95:21 97:6 130:16 135:7 137:11 151:23 161:4 169:14 174:18 181:7 189:24 209:20 238:14 ways 46:7 47:16,22 151:18 166:24 177:24 178:1 213:18 weak 65:8 weather 94:22,24 95:1,3,15 weatherproofing 64:24 weathertight 223:13 week 185:17 233:20 weeks 230:1,5,6,8,10 230:12 235:18,20 235:21 weights 138:17 weld 101:21 welded 101:9 went 20:19 23:11 24:23 67:1 102:1 107:7 120:17 145:19 154:4 173:18 186:3 209:8 222:3 weren't 24:9 54:3 123:2 172:8 194:22 wet 153:20 we'll 14:24 50:15 54:18 65:10 76:3,8 94:3 115:17 120:13 123:15 132:21 145:23 147:4 153:10,11 186:17 189:3 we're 16:23 27:12 39:17,18,19,22 40:16 44:9 55:12 56:5 66:17 71:11 74:8 81:9 84:15,18 86:20 104:17 114:6 115:10,24 116:18 118:12 120:5 131:21 133:11 138:5 139:5,6 140:15,24 147:20 148:6 150:19 153:1 171:16 172:2 173:13 184:5 194:13 197:6 205:18 207:20 208:1 216:11 226:7 226:12 227:10 237:10,17 we've 15:14 59:17 85:19,21 90:4 91:18 92:6 95:20 98:12 99:18 103:24 109:18115:6 127:17 133:22 140:4 148:21 164:7 189:7 196:7,12 203:3 206:12 223:1 226:10 WHEREOF 238:15 Whitcomb 2:15 8:7,7 15:2,5,9 39:12 40:7 41:1 49:15 66:14 154:12 198:9 white 230:24 234:16 wide 26:12,20 28:6,8 62:10 213:18 willing 11:6 windbox 151:4 wire 91:3 153:18 154:2 159:2 withdraw 204:2 witness 3:2 7:17,22 98:11 106:16 113:2 145:10 160:3 238:6 238:12,15 239:13 239:14,14,16 witnesses 140:22 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