Document 4JQdeRM5a2VyvO9k5gpwz14Zx

2 1 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF ST. CLAIR COUNTY, ALABAMA 2 PELL CITY DIVISION 3 4 THOMAS C. and CHARLOTTE ) 4 G. DYER, ) 5 Plaintiffs, ) CIVIL ACTION NUMBER 5 ) CV-93-250 consolidated 6 VS. ) with CV-94-50-PH for 6 ) discovery only 7 MONSANTO COMPANY, A ) 7 Delaware corporation, ) DEPOSITION OF: Defendants. ) EARL SCOTT TUCKER, III 9 SHELTER COVE MANAGEMENT, ) 9 INC., et al. , ) 10 Plaintiffs, ) 10 ) CIVIL ACTION NUMBER 11 VS. ) 11 ) CV-94-50-PH 12 MONSANTO CORPORATION, ) 12 et al., ) 13 14 STIPULATION 15 IT IS STIPULATED AND AGREED, by and between 16 the parties through their respective counsel, that the 17 deposition of: 18 EARL SCOTT TUCKER, III, 19 may be taken before Jill Sanders, Commissioner and 20 Notary Public, State at Large, at the offices of 21 Lightfoot, Franklin and White, 400 20th Street North, 22 Birmingham, Alabama, on the 30th day of December 1998, 23 commencing at approximately 10:00 a.m. Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024042 1 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that the 2 signature to and reading of the deposition by the 3 witness is not waived, the deposition to have the same 4 force and effect as if full compliance had been had 5 with all laws and rules of Court relating to the 6 taking of depositions. 7 8 IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND AGREED that it 9 shall not be necessary for any objections to be made 10 by counsel to any questions, except as to form or 11 leading questions, and that counsel for the parties 12 may make objections and assign grounds at the time of 13 the trial, or at the time said deposition is offered 14 in evidence, or prior thereto. 15 16 17 3 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024043 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 4 5 BURR & FORMAN 6 BY: Peter A. Grammas, Esq. 7 3100 SouthTrust Tower 8 420 20th Street North 9 Birmingham, Alabama 35203 10 11 12 FOR THE DEFENDANT: 13 14 LIGHTFOOT, FRANKLIN & WHITE 15 BY: Adam Peck, Esq. 16 400 20th Street North 17 Birmingham, Alabama 35203 4 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024044 INDEX Examination by Mr. Grammas........................................................ Page 5 Reporter's Certificate...................................................................... Page 171 Deponent's Certificate...................................................................... Page 172 Correction Sheet......................................................................................... Page 173 EXHIBIT LIST Plaintiff's Exhibit 1 Plaintiff's Exhibit 2 Page 81 Page 110 5 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024045 1 I, Jill B. Sanders, a Court Reporter of 2 Birmingham, Alabama, and a Notary Public for the State 3 of Alabama at large, acting as commissioner, certify 4 that on this date, pursuant to Rule 30 of the Alabama 5 Rules of Civil Procedure and the foregoing stipulation 6 of counsel, there came before me on the 30th day of 7 December 1998, at the offices of Lightfoot, Franklin & 8 White, 400 20th Street North, Birmingham, Alabama, 9 commencing at approximately 10:00 a.m., EARL SCOTT 10 TUCKER, III, witness in the above cause, for oral 11 examination, whereupon the following proceedings were 12 had: 13 EARL SCOTT TUCKER, III, 14 being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as 15 follows: 16 17 EXAMINATION BY MR. GRAMMAS: 18 Q Dr. Tucker, you have, I guess, a Ph.D.; is 19 that correct? 20 A Yes. 21 Q You're not amedical doctor? 22 A No, I'm not. 23 Q Could you state your full name, please, for 6 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024046 the record? A My full name is Earl Scott Tucker, III. Q Where do you currently reside? A I live in Liberty, South Carolina. Q You have been retained as an expert in this case? A As an expert in facts, yes. Q When I say you've been retained as an 9 expert, you're being paid for your testimony in this 10 case? 11 A No . 12 Q You're not? 13 A No, not as far as the facts are concerned. 14 Q Are you in any degree or in any manner 15 receiving any compensation from Monsanto for your 16 testimony? 17 A Today? 18 Q At any time in this case. 19 A In this case, I will be reimbursed for my 20 expenses and for travel to get here and for the hotel 21 and things of that sort, but I'm not receiving a fee 22 for this deposition. 23 Q Not the deposition, for this case. Have you 7 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024047 received a fee from Monsanto for any of your time in this case? A Yes. Q Okay. How much to date have you been paid, if you know? A I think only about two to three thousand dollars. Q What was that for? A That was to review all of the expert reports that our folks had put together and bring myself up to speed. Q And where are you currently employed? A I'm currently employed with a company that's called IT or International Technologies. They just recently purchased a company that I was working for called OHM, who purchased another company that I worked for called Rust, which may be more familiar with the folks here. Q When did IT purchase OHM? Because in this report that you've signed which is dated as recently as October of this year, you stated in the first paragraph that you were currently employed by OHM, so I assume it was very recently. 8 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024048 1A Correct. It's been in the last quarter of 2 this year that the deal was put forth and completed. 3Q Okay. And you told me again and I forgot 4 what city you said you lived in South Carolina? 5A Liberty, South Carolina. 6Q Where is that? 7A It's located approximatelythirty miles 8 south of Greenville, South Carolina, roughly a hundred 9 and twenty miles north of Atlanta. 10 Q What is your current responsibilities for, I 11 guess, IT? 12 A My current responsibilities is to handle the 13 quality control/quality assurance with several 14 Superfund projects. 15 Q You're basically doing the same thing for IT 16 that you state you were doing for OHM in your report? 17 A Correct. Same projects, the company was 18 just purchased by IT. 19 Q And these companies are hired to work on 20 Superfund sites? 21 A Correct. 22 Q What role does your company take? Clean up? 23 A It's the clean up, correct, remediation. 9 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024049 1 And the particular area I'm involved is thermal 2 remediation. 3Q What's that? 4A It involves taking soil and running it 5 through a large thermal treatment unit that removes 6 the contaminants and then verifying that the 7 contaminants are no longer in the soil and returning 8 the soil to the site. 9Q Is that a proper way to remediate PCB 10 contaminated product? 11 A It can be. 12 Q Tell me all the projects that you are aware 13 of either that you have worked on or through your 14 experience you have learned that PCB remediation was 15 treated by a thermal process. 16 A I've been directly involved with one PCB 17 thermal remediation project, it involved thermal 18 desorption and thermal desorption really is a means by 19 which the soil is heated in a nitrogen atmosphere. 20 The PCBs are vaporized and then condensed and then the 21 PCBs are then bulked and taken to an appropriate 22 incinerator for disposal. 23 Q Where was that, sir? 10 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024050 1A That project was in Pickens, South Carolina, 2 and it was called the Samagano project. 3Q Could you spell that? 4A I'll try. 5Q I'm a horrible speller. 6A S-a-m-a-g-a-n-o, I believe. 7Q In Pickens, South Carolina? 8A Yes, sir. 9Q 10 A What was the source of the PCBs? Capacitor impregnation plant. 11 Q 12 A What is that? Pardon? 13 Q Tell me what that is. 14 A PCBs were used predominantly as a dielectric 15 fluid. When you prepare a capacitor, you fill it with 16 PCB or impregnate it with a PCB dielectric fluid and 17 in the process of doing that they already got 18 contaminated years and years ago when they didn't 19 understand what they were working with. 20 Q You mean spills and things like that? 21 A Spills, not like railroad car accidents or 22 things of that sort but just through normal use of the 23 material, it had gotten into the area and using the 11 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024051 1 appropriate technology of the time, it had 2 contaminated a fair amount of the area there and the 3 soil had to be removed and the PCBs were removed and 4 put back in the ground. 5Q Well, the area, was it a dry area or was it 6 a river or stream? 7A Both. 8Q Could you use a thermal remediation process 9 in a river or stream? 10 A Not without a great deal of pretreatment. 11 Q What would you do to go about doing it? 12 A Well, water is particularly difficult to 13 burn, so if you are going to run the PCBs -- well, 14 first of all, you wouldn't do the PCBs in water, you 15 would have to run the water through carbon and then 16 decide what you want to do with the carbon. 17 If you're going to do the PCBs in a 18 sediment, obviously you'd have to separate it from the 19 water, you'd have to dewater the material to a point 20 where you wouldn't use all your thermal energy getting 21 rid of the water, and then you would have to treat the 22 site. 23 It would not be a preferred technique 12 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024052 1 necessarily. 2Q What is your preferred technique? Well, let 3 me ask you this: Have you personally ever been 4 involved in PCB remediation in river systems, creeks, 5 lakes? 6A No. I'd like to qualify myself in terms of 7 what I really am technically competent about talking 8 about and that is I'm an analytical chemist and so my 9 area of expertise is really measuring PCBs in various 10 environmental matrasses and interpreting that 11 information for the folks that really decide how a 12 remediation should happen. 13 Q Okay. Well, let me ask you this then, are 14 you in a position to give any opinions or comments 15 about the proper way that PCBs should be remediated in 16 this case? 17 A My opinions would not be as a technical 18 expert in that kind of thing. That's not as I said my 19 area of expertise. There are a number of ways that 20 PCBs have been remediated in the past and probably 21 will continue to be remediated in the future. Each 22 site, depending upon the concentration, other 23 contaminants, the type of soil, the whole gamut of 13 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024053 1 things, variables that are around has to be looked at 2 before you can decide what the appropriate treatment 3 technology is. 4Q So what you've just done to me you just 5 given me an opinion on remediation. Now, either - 6 and that's fine. 7A I'll make it easy for you. I'm not 8 qualified to give opinions on remediation because 9 that's not my technical area of expertise. 10 Q And that would include the last opinion. 11 MR. PECK: We're not putting him up to give 12 opinions about the -- if you ask him about it, he'll 13 give answers, but we are not putting him up -- we do 14 not plan to ask him at trial opinions about the 15 adequacy of any proposal we have to remediate really 16 anything around the plant, particularly not around, 17 you know, Choccolocco Creek, Snow Creek or Lake Logan 18 Martin, that's just not what the witness is here for. 19 Q You agree with what Mr. Peck - 20 A I certainly do. If they ask me to offer an 21 opinion of that sort, I would recommend people that I 22 know who really do that. 23 Q And who are these people that you know that 14 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024054 1 -- let me ask you this: Who do you know that is 2 qualified to give an opinion about what remediation 3 efforts should be made, if any, with respect to the 4 PCBs in Snow Creek, Choccolocco Creek and Lake Logan 5 Martin? 6A I think one of the places that most opinions 7 come from and most opinions finally end up happens to 8 be the Environmental Protection Agency, so I certainly 9 would want to know what they thought about the subject 10 and then there are certainly state agencies that in 11 RCRA situations and things of that sort have premase. 12 Q What about individuals? 13 A There are a number of themavailable. 14 Q Have you read - 15 A Through the many engineering firms that 16 specializes in that kind of thing. 17 Q Have you read all of the expert reports 18 or -- and Adam may be the better person to answer 19 this . 20 MR. GRAMMAS: Do you know, Adam, whether 21 this gentleman has been given all the expert reports 22 in this case, both the plaintiff side and defense 23 side? 15 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024055 1 MR. PECK: I'm confident he's not. 2Q Have you read any expert reports either from 3 experts hired by my clients or from experts hired by 4 Monsanto that offered opinions regarding remediation 5 of this project? 6A No, I have not. 7Q Your company -- there are individuals at 8 your company that are -- or that do have expertise in 9 PCB remediation? 10 A You're talking about IT? 11 Q Right. 12 A Correct. 13 Q And it's not uncommon for IT to be hired 14 when someone like the EPA or some state agency or even 15 a particular company discovers that due to it's 16 conduct PCBs were allowed to escape from their land 17 sites and enter into waterways? 18 A It depends on whether ornot thecompany 19 would, first of all, want to bid on any projects that 20 they were knowledgeable about. And secondly whether 21 or not they won the competitive bid on the project 22 with both the best way to do it and the best dollar 23 amount. 16 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024056 1 So it really depends. Remediation is 2 remediation. There's all sorts of remediation. And 3 PCB isn't the only thing that gets remediated. 4Q Right. But what I want to establish and 5 what I want this jury to understand is that you have 6 spent an entire career working in an industry 7 regarding at least the measurements of PCBs, right? 8A Correct. 9Q And in some form or fashion entire career 10 regarding remediation of PCB spills or discharges, 11 right? 12 A From 1985 to date was when I worked in the 13 remediation industry and maybe about a tenth to a 14 fifth of the projects that I was associated with were 15 -- a tenth to maybe five percent of the projects I was 16 associated with had something to do with PCBs. 17 As I said, PCBs are not the only contaminant 18 around. 19 Q Right. And I don't want to suggest that all 20 you do is work on PCB-related issues. 21 A Right. And that's what I wanted to clarify, 22 in fact, most of my work has absolutely nothing to do 23 with PCBs in terms of remediation area. 17 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024057 Q Fair enough. But what I do want the jury to understand is it is not uncommon at all in your experience that PCBs when discovered to be present in a river system are in some form or fashion cleaned up through companies like the one you worked with? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question A Correct. Q Okay. Before we get any further I want to talk to you about a few things concerning PCBs in general and just see if you will agree with me about certain aspects of PCBs. You will agree with me, Dr. Tucker, that PCBs are a persistent chemical, would you not? A You know, again, on the surface I would say yes but I prefer to understand what you mean by persistent since technical terms have different meanings to different folks. Q What do you mean by persistent? A Persistent means that on an average it probably can exist in the environment a longer period of time than other things. Now, on the other hand, things like sodium 18 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024058 1 chloride and stuff like that are a hundred percent 2 persistent, they never go away. 3 So it really, it really needs to be defined 4 appropriately. PCBs have been considered as organic 5 molecules to be persistent under certain 6 circumstances. 7Q What about thirty years, if a chemical stays 8 basically in an unaltered state after being put there 9 for over a thirty year period at that minimum, would 10 you consider that to be a persistent material? 11 A Correct, yes. 12 Q You know -- and you used to work for 13 Monsanto, right? 14 A Yes. 15 Q When you first got out of college, that was 16 the first job you took with Monsanto? 17 A That's correct. 18 Q And you worked there for a period of, if I 19 remember correctly, of about eleven to twelve years? 20 A Correct. 21 Q All right. Now, during that period of time 22 some of the very first projects you worked on were 23 ways to measure very small amounts of PCBs, right? 19 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024059 1A Correct. 2Q You in that work became aware of a study 3 that was done in Gainesville, Florida, where some PCBs 4 were placed there in the late '30s and were discovered 5 virtually in their unaltered state as late as 1963, 6 right? 7A Yes. 8Q And you were aware that it was there really 9 in the early '70s that PCBs were there at that site in 10 virtually an unaltered state, right? 11 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 12 question. 13 A I already answered that. 14 Q Okay. Is the answer yes? 15 A Would you restate the question? 16 Q Yes. You knew that the PCBs at that site 17 stayed in virtually an unaltered state even sometime 18 in the '70s at the Gainesville site? 19 A Correct. 20 Q All right. So we know that the PCBs that 21 were placed there at that Gainesville site remained 22 there virtually unchanged for, at least at that time, 23 close to a forty year period? 20 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024060 1A Is that a question? 2Q Yes, sir. 3A Actually that's not what we know. What we 4 know is is that the bulk of the material in the manner 5 in which it was placed in that area did remain there 6 and that's not as surprising as you might think. I 7 assure you if you took PCBs and put them in a bottle, 8 dug a hole and put the bottle in the hole and came 9 back in forty years, if nobody disturbed it, it would 10 still be there. Basically that's kind of what 11 happened. 12 Q Well, the bottom line is -- tell me who Mr. 13 Marsh is. 14 A I believe that -- 15 Q Actually Marsh Magner, who is Mr.Magner? 16 A Marsh Magner, I believe, was part of the 17 agricultural division at Monsanto. 18 Q He applied some Aroclors to a soil test plot 19 at the University of Florida in Gainesville on June 20 28, 1939, didn't he? 21 A He was responsible for supervising the 22 application. 23 Q Right. And they noticed back in, like I 21 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024061 1 said earlier, 1963, they looked at these same soil 2 plots and they found that the PCBs were still there in 3 the virtually identical form, shape and manner that 4 they were there when they were placed there in the 5 soil? 6A Correct. The bulk of PCBs that were placed 7 there were still there. And I would caution you that 8 the reason they were still there was the manner in 9 which they were put there and the concentration that 10 they were put there. 11 Q The bottom line is, based on tests you knew 12 because you're Scott Tucker, right? 13 A That's correct. 14 Q You've seen this document I'm talkingabout, 15 haven't you? 16 A I'd like to take a look at it. 17 Q Okay, sure. The reason I'm not making it as 18 an exhibit is it's the only one I have. 19 A Well, I want to make sure what you're 20 talking from. 21 Q It's a document dated April 8th, 1969, and 22 on this particular document it doesn't have a Bates 23 stamp number on it. That's your name right here? 22 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024062 1A That is my name, Scott Tucker. I'm on the 2 distribution list. 3Q You were employed by Monsanto at this time? 4A Yes, I was. 5Q Have you seen this document before today 6 other than when you saw it obviously when you got it 7 back in 1969? 8A I probably have seen it over the years. 9 MR. PECK: Did you finish reading it? 10 A I don't know how much further he's going to 11 go. 12 Q That's all I'm going to go into it. 13 A Let me just refresh my memory. 14 Q Sure. Have you seen that document as 15 recently as yesterday or when you met with your 16 Monsanto lawyers? 17 A I don't believe this is one of the documents 18 that I looked at yesterday. 19 Q The only point I'm trying to make in all of 20 this is, Monsanto has known for years and years and 21 years, at least since 1969, that PCBs applied to soil 22 will stay there virtually unchanged for thirty years 23 or more, that's the only point I'm trying to make, 23 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024063 1 right? 2 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 3 question 4Q That doesn't come as any surprise to you, 5 does it, Dr. Tucker? 6A Well, as I said, qualifying what the point 7 you're trying to make in terms of the way I look at 8 things, the amount of PCBs that were placed there, the 9 pure PCBs that were placed there and the manner in 10 which they were placed there, intended that they stay 11 there and that they not go away. 12 So you asked me if I'm surprised that most 13 of the material is still there, and the answer is yes, 14 I'm surprised that most of the material is still 15 there. 16 On the other hand, when you really sit down 17 and think about it and the manner in which it was done 18 it's not quite so surprising as it might be to someone 19 like yourself. 20 Q It's not surprising to me because I've read 21 the literature that talks about how persistent this 22 chemical is. I've read the literature that talks 23 about how the chemical doesn't break down and stays 24 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024064 virtually unchanged for decades and decades. Some literature you've read, Dr. Tucker, has even suggested that it never breaks down, haven't you read literature like that about PCBs? A I've read opinions like that. Q Okay. A I've seen very few factual information -- in fact, I've seen facts that are the exact opposite of what you're trying to make of this particular item. Q Sir, I'm not trying to make anything. I just want the status of things. A Well, I get the feeling that you might be and so in trying to answer your questions correctly, I need to understand where you're going with them. Q Right. I asked you a simple question, if PCBs are persistent, and that led into this document. A They are considered persistent if you define persistent correctly. Q As in lasting for decades? A No, that is not the kind of persistence that I believe you are trying to talk about, absolutely not. Q Well, let me ask you this, then. Are you 25 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024065 1 disagreeing that the PCBs that are found right now in 2 Snow Creek, Choccolocco Creek and Lake Logan Martin 3 did not come from the Monsanto facility? 4 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 5 question. 6A That's a quantum jump that I'm not sure how 7 you made. 8Q I'm just asking you that. Do you - 9A Am I sure that those PCBs in the area that 10 you just talked about came specifically from the 11 Anniston plant; is that the question you're asking me? 12 Q No, that wasn't my question. My question is 13 is there any doubt in your mind that the PCBs in Snow 14 Creek, Choccolocco Creek and Lake Logan Martin did not 15 come from the Monsanto facility in Anniston? 16 A Sure, absolutely. 17 Q There is a doubt? 18 A Oh, absolutely. 19 Q Why is that? 20 A Because a lot of other people used PCBs 21 besides that facility. 22 Q What I want to know is you tell me who these 23 people are. 26 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024066 1A Anybody that purchased the product from 2 Monsanto and used it in any particular application 3 could be responsible, if they were on that particular 4 watershed, for the PCBs that are in that watershed; I 5 think that is obvious. 6Q Maybe you didn't understand my question and 7 that's my fault. 8 I'm not saying nor am I trying to suggest 9 that it's your opinion that Monsanto is the only 10 source of PCBs there. What I want to know is is there 11 any doubt in your mind that Monsanto is a source of 12 the PCBs in Snow Creek, Choccolocco Creek and Lake 13 Logan Martin? 14 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 15 question, no foundation. 16 A To answer that question yes or no, I would 17 have to say yes, there is doubt. 18 Q Okay. 19 A And I've expressed that. 20 Q Do you know, sir,based on your -- and you 21 did testing of these PCBs when you were working at 22 Monsanto, right? 23 A Yes, I did. 27 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024067 1Q You tested in Snow Creek? 2A Yes, I did. 3Q You were responsible for testing Choccolocco 4 Creek? 5A Yes. 6Q And you tested in Lake Logan Martin for 7 PCBs, didn't you? 8A Yes -- wait a minute, I'm not so sure that 9 we went down that far as Lake Logan Martin. We might 10 have. I would have to review documents to make sure. 11 How far is Lake Logan Martin from the plant? 12 Q I don't know how many miles from, you know, 13 the river bending, I don't have any idea. 14 A The primary samples that we looked at, I'm 15 trying to remember were at, there was a drainage ditch 16 that went into Snow Creek and those would be the kind 17 of areas that we primarily looked at. There were some 18 other ones. 19 Q You were responsible for developing methods 20 to inspect or to test for PCBs at very, very small 21 levels, you developed these methods, right? 22 A Yes. 23 Q While you were employed at Monsanto. 28 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024068 1A Yes. 2Q Monsanto asked you, based on your education 3 and background, to come up with a way so that they 4 could test very small amounts of PCBs? 5A Correct. 6Q And you did that for them? 7A Yes. 8Q And you were successful in doing that? 9A Yes. 10 Q And Monsanto had this technology, certainly 11 by the '60s? 12 A No. 13 Q The late '60s? 14 A No. 15 Q 1969? 16 A The technology was really not well 17 established until the early '70s. 18 Q And y'all, based on the technology that you 19 developed, were testing for PCBs in both Snow Creek 20 and Choccolocco Creek, right? 21 A Yes. We analyzed samples that were supplied 22 to us that were labeled as being taken from those 23 areas; that's correct. 29 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024069 1Q And you found PCBs in those samples, right? 2A To the best of my recollection we did, yes, 3 some we found some in and some we didn't find some in. 4Q That's not what I asked you. I just said 5 you found PCBs in those samples. 6A In some of thesamples. 7Q Fair enough. 8A Thank you. 9Q Dr. Tucker, was there any doubt in your mind 10 at that time that the PCBs got there because of 11 Monsanto's operations in the Anniston plant? 12 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 13 question. 14 A No. I would have to admit that the PCBs in 15 the samples that were closely -- close to the plant 16 and hadn't gotten to where other people were 17 contributing, I was convinced that that was from the 18 plant, yes. 19 Q PCBs you will admit, sir, adhere to 20 sediments? 21 A Pardon? 22 Q PCBs adhere to sediments, soils and 23 sediments? 30 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024070 1A They are hydrophobic and they're absorbed by 2 solids, yes. 3Q If they are dropped in water, they are not 4 water soluble, right? 5A Not in the classical sense. 6Q And they're heavier than water? 7A Yes. 8Q Which means you would expect PCBs being both 9 nonwater soluable and heavier than water to drop out 10 of the water column down to the bottom of the water? 11 A Correct. I would expect PCBs to behave like 12 motor oil. 13 Q And PCBs have a characteristic that allows 14 them or has the tendency to bond to the sediments at 15 the bottom of a river or a lake, right? 16 A They don't bond but they like that 17 environment better than water. They are not very 18 water soluble. Conversely, not much goes into water. 19 So if you put them into water, they go to the bottom. 20 Q And when testing in a river system, you 21 wouldn't really expect to find, unless it was just an 22 unbelievably contaminated site, to actually have PCBs 23 in the water itself, would you? 31 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024071 1 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 2 question. 3A I think -- are we talking at that time or 4 are we talking at this time? 5Q At any time. 6A I think PCBs are so ubiquitous, if you have 7 a sensitive enough method, that you can probably find 8 them anywhere. 9Q Now, you understand, sir, that PCBs are not 10 biodegradable? 11 A No, I don't understand that. 12 Q You don't know that? 13 A I published articles that say exactly the 14 opposite of that. 15 Q They say they are biodegradable? 16 A Yes. 17 Q Were you working for Monsanto at the time 18 you published those articles? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Now, you would recognize volumes of 21 literature that disagree with the articles that you 22 published, right? 23 I'm not saying you agree with them, I'm just 32 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024072 1 saying there are many, many experts in your same field 2 that disagree with your conclusion that PCBs are 3 biodegradable. 4A I don't think that's the case. I think the 5 issue is is that how biodegradable they are and which 6 specific isomers you're talking about. 7 I think given enough time all PCBs are 8 biodegradable. 9Q And the documents, Monsanto documents that 10 discuss the fact that PCBs are not biodegradable, you 11 disagree with those documents, too? 12 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 13 question. 14 A I think you've taken a shortcut here that's 15 an important shortcut not to take. And that shortcut 16 is that you're calling biodegradability black and 17 white, on and off, and that's not the case. Some PCBs 18 are more biodegradable than others. PCBs are more 19 biodegradable than some compounds but less 20 biodegradable than other ones. 21 But in my way of thinking, all PCBs are 22 biodegradable. It's just a matter of how quickly they 23 can be biodegraded and how rapidly -- and what they 33 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024073 1 are exposed to and things of that sort. 2Q So if PCBs are in fish or in human beings, 3 how long would it take for them to become 4 biodegradable? 5 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 6 question and foundation. 7A It depends on where they are in the fish and 8 human beings. If they are stored in the lipid pool 9 that's never mobilized, it will stay there forever, 10 because that is where the body wants to keep them. 11 Q And that's where PCBs are typically stored, 12 aren't they? 13 A Correct. But that doesn't mean they are not 14 biodegradable. What it means is is that because of 15 the physical properties of PCBs that's where they go, 16 so therefore they are not available to the liver and 17 other portions that can metabolize them, that's all it 18 means. It doesn't mean they're not biodegradable. 19 Q And again, you disagree with literature and 20 Monsanto documents that describe PCBs as being 21 nonbiodegradable? 22 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 23 question. 34 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024074 1A As long -- I don't disagree with it. What 2 I'm trying to say is, if you say PCBs are absolutely 3 never biodegradable, you're wrong. 4Q I'm not saying anything. All I'm doing is 5 reading Monsanto documents. 6A People say that PCBs are not very 7 biodegradable or that this portion of PCBs is not 8 biodegradable. You have to understand the definition 9 of biodegradability. If the test is a twenty-four 10 hour test, then if they aren't disappearing in 11 twenty-four hours, they are not biodegradable under 12 those conditions. 13 If the test is a longer period of time or a 14 different kind of organism, things change. 15 So, in essence, if the information that 16 people are putting forth is based on good scientific 17 experiments and it's in context and I can understand 18 it, I probably would agree with it. 19 Q You will agree that PCBs bioaccumulate? 20 A Correct. 21 Q Tell me what that means. 22 A Bioaccumulation to me means that PCBs are 23 very hydrophobic. It means that they like things 35 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024075 1 oil-like things. So if they, for example, went into a 2 human being, you would expect that the body will 3 cleanse itself by depositing them in the fat. 4Q And they would stay there for how long? 5A As long as that fat is not mobilized, they 6 stay there. 7Q Forever? 8A I don't know what forever is. 9Q They would stay there longer than you would 10 expect the human being carrying them around to live? 11 A Let me -- 12 Q Could you answer that? 13 A Let me rephrase my answer to your question. 14 As long as that lipid pool is not mobilized or reused, 15 for example, the individual decides to lose weight or 16 something of that sort, the PCBs won't be mobilized 17 and they will stay there as long as that lipid pool is 18 not saturated. 19 If the lipid pool becomes saturated, then 20 the PCBs won't go there anymore and they'll flow 21 through the organism and go out through normal 22 metabolic pathway through the feces, through the 23 urine, or whatever. 36 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024076 1Q Okay. You would expect the PCBs in this 2 fatty tissue to stay there certainly longer than the 3 human being will live? 4 MR. PECK: Object to the form, asked 5 and answered. 6A I don't know where you're going with this, I 7 think I've answered the question. What I said to you 8 is that as long as the lipid pool remains unsaturated 9 and stays intact, the PCBs will stay there. 10 Q Okay. You will also agree, sir, that PCBs 11 last 12 A There are conditions under which PCBs can 13 last for decades in the environment if not remediated, 14 yes. 15 Q You will also agree with me, sir, that PCBs 16 are a jable human carcinogen? 17 A No, I don't agree with that. 18 Q You disagree with those conclusions? 19 A Yes, sir, I do. 20 Q You will agree with me that PCBs have been 21 known muse cancer in animals at certain doses? 22 A Yes, there are studies that state that. 23 Q And you will agree with me that PCBs are 37 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024077 1 listed as a probable human carcinogen by the federal 2 government? 3A I will agree that PCBs are listed as a 4 probable carcinogen. 5Q That's what I said. 6A Correct. 7Q Monsanto manufactured PCBs in Anniston for 8 over thirty years, correct? 9A Correct. 10 Q Monsanto, sir, allowed PCBs to enter Snow 11 Creek and Choccolocco Creek and Lake Logan Martin? 12 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 13 question. 14 A As a result of their activities, PCBs did 15 enter, yes. But I don't think they gave them 16 permission, necessarily, you're using the word 17 allowed. 18 Q It's just a verb that I chose. 19 A And I wanted to be more technical in the 20 sense that -- 21 Q Let me rephrase the question. 22 A -- during the manufacturing process there 23 were PCBs that were released, yes. 38 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024078 1Q Into Snow Creek, Choccolocco Creek and Lake 2 Logan Martin by Monsanto? 3A I can speak to those areas where analysis - 4 I did analysis and I would say that Snow Creek and I 5 think we probably did samples from Choccolocco and 6 things of that sort. 7 Now, once you get outside of the boundaries 8 of the Monsanto plant and get into the larger 9 watershed, I think it's not only Monsanto, I think 10 there's a lot of other contributors as we discussed 11 earlier. 12 Q While you were employed at Monsanto, Dr. 13 Tucker, you personally developed techniques for 14 Monsanto to test for the presence of PCBs and that - 15 and these technologies were developed by the very 16 early '70s, 1970s? 17 A In the early '70s, correct. 18 Q And at least by that time, the very early 19 1970s, Monsanto had the technical capabilities to test 20 for the presence of PCBs in the environment, right? 21 A Correct. 22 Q Monsanto could have used the capabilities, 23 the technical capabilities that they paid you to 39 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024079 1 develop for them to test for the presence of PCBs in 2 Lake Logan Martin in the early 1970s, correct? 3A They could have -- this is a supposition, 4 they could have; is that correct? 5Q They could have. 6A That methodology can be applied anywhere. 7Q My point is, Monsanto had possession of the 8 methodology that you developed to test for PCBs in the 9 1970s and they could have used that technology to test 10 for it in Lake Logan Martin at that time? 11 A Yes. 12 Q And those testswould haveallowed Monsanto 13 to determine exactly where the PCBs were located, if 14 any, in Lake Logan Martin in 1970, right? 15 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 16 question. 17 A It would allow them to determine the 18 distribution, yes. 19 Q Now, in your - 20 A I get back to the point that LakeLogan 21 Martin, Monsanto is probably not the only contributor. 22 So that would not have been really germane to what 23 Monsanto was attempting to do. 40 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024080 1Q Well, what was Monsanto attempting to do? 2A Monsanto was attempting to find outwhere 3 and why the leakage was occurring and an attempt to 4 remediate that and to discontinue it. I think that's 5 evident from the record. 6Q What's not evident from the record the, what 7 I'm hearing you saying and what you do not recall 8 while you were employed there during that eleven or so 9 year period of time, is that Monsanto was not 10 concerned about PCBs in Lake Logan Martin. 11 A I disagree. 12 Q Well, tell me, sir. 13 A I think Monsanto was concerned about PCBs in 14 the environment in general. And I think that the 15 whole thing that triggered Monsanto's concern were 16 some findings by some scientists in Sweden, so to say 17 they didn't have a little more cosmopolitan global 18 attitude toward the environmental impact is, I think, 19 erroneous. 20 Q Monsanto had you working on a way to test 21 for PCBs in the environment before these Swedish 22 people found that PCBs were in the environment? 23 A No. 41 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024081 1Q After that? 2A Yes. 3Q Are you aware of anything that Monsanto had 4 before then, before that period of time, any process 5 they had in place that would allow them to test for 6 PCBs in the environment? 7A At the levels and in the matrices we were 8 looking at, the testing wasn't available. So you 9 yourself stated that we were the first to develop it. 10 Q No, that's what your reports indicate. 11 A Okay. 12 Q What were you doing, sir, in 1955? And I 13 don't mean - 14 A Who was I working for and things of that 15 sort? 16 Q Yes. How old were you in 1955? 17 A I was born in 1939, so that would make me, I 18 think, probably about sixteen years old. 19 Q And you were in high school? 20 A I would hope so. At sixteen, yes, sir. I'm 21 trying to remember. Yes, I was probably in Central 22 High School in Flint, Michigan, at that time. 23 Q You didn't know anything about PCBs or how 42 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024082 1 to test for them or anything of that nature back then, 2 did you? 3A Certainly not. No. 4Q Have you read documents from Monsanto that 5 suggest that Monsanto knew that PCBs were toxic as 6 early as 1955? 7A I've read -- I believe there are some - 8 Monsanto has -- okay. 9 Monsanto as a chemical company has always 10 been concerned about the impact of its chemicals on 11 its workers. And I think what we're kind of getting 12 at is the concern about workers who are exposed to 13 PCBs or other kinds of chemicals period during the 14 manufacturing of those materials. 15 And I have read documents that the medical 16 department -- yes, I recall documents that were 17 concerned about the exposure that it might have on 18 employees and things of that sort. 19 Q In 1955 Monsanto knew that PCBs were toxic 20 to human beings? 21 A I don't know that to be a fact. 22 Q What documents are you talking about that 23 you read? 43 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024083 1A I vaguely recall memos that -- I can't 2 remember whether I've actually seen 1955 documents 3 which I may have or whether I've seen the reference to 4 that. And I'm not sure about 1955. I would have to 5 look at whatever you're talking about to tell you 6 whether or not I've seen it. 7Q Did you review any documents with any 8 lawyers from this firm recently? 9A Yes. 10 Q When did you come up here? 11 A I came up here yesterday afternoon. 12 Q And what document did you look at? 13 A You would have to show them to me. They 14 were historical documents, mainly ones that had my 15 name on it as something I wrote or as something that 16 was distributed that I might be on and it was 17 basically to kind of refresh my memory. Some of the 18 documents were -- I'm trying to remember, most of them 19 were in the late '60s, '68, '69, '70, '71, '72, things 20 like that. 21 Q What time yesterday did you get here? 22 A My plane got in at 12:20, it was a little 23 late. I think I got here around a quarter to 2:00. 44 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024084 1Q Who did you meetwith? 2A I met with Adam and I think the first person 3 I met when I came in was Mr. Cox. 4Q Buddy Cox? 5A Yes, correct. 6Q And he introduced you or brought you to 7 Adam? 8A Yes. 9Q Was that the first time you had ever metMr. 10 Peck? 11 A Yes. 12 Q How long a period of time did you and Mr. 13 Peck talk about your testimony today? 14 A We talkedabout -- I mean, itwasn't that we 15 were talking about the testimony. 16 MR. PECK: Wait, let me caution you in 17 answering the question. I don't think he's asked you 18 an improper question yet, but in answering the 19 question, be careful not to disclose the content of 20 the information, that is privileged. 21 MR. GRAMMAS: Wait a minute, Adam. 22 This is an expert witness. I am entitled to know 23 every single thing y'all talked about. 45 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024085 1 MR. PECK: No, you're not. 2 MR. GRAMMAS: Yes, I am. 3 MR. PECK: Well, you can take it up 4 with the court, but you're not entitled to know that. 5 He is a former Monsanto employee. He's told you -- 6 MR. GRAMMAS: You're paying for his 7 testimony. 8 MR. PECK: Let me finish my statement. 9 MR. GRAMMAS: You're paying for his 10 testimony. We've already established that. 11 MR. PECK: No, we're not. 12 MR. GRAMMAS: You paid this man over 13 two or three thousand dollars to date for his 14 testimony. 15 MR. PECK: No, we've not. 16 MR. GRAMMAS: Well, whatever. Let me 17 just ask the question and -- 18 MR. PECK: He didn't testify to that. 19 Q (By Mr. Grammas) Did you not tell me 20 earlier, Dr. Tucker -- 21 MR. PECK: Pete, you can ask it all the 22 times you want, but I'm going to instruct him not to 23 answer any questions that were asking him to reveal 46 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024086 1 communications we had with him because he is a former 2 Monsanto employee, he can bind the company with that 3 testimony. When you're asking him about factual 4 information that occurred during that time period and 5 discussions that you may have had about it, that's 6 privileged. If you ask him about things and analysis 7 he may have done on this case, which he hasn't done 8 any, then that wouldn't be privileged. That's the 9 line I'm drawing. 10 Everything we discussed would be within 11 the context of privilege. 12 MR. GRAMMAS: Are you finished? 13 MR. PECK: Yes, I'm finished. 14 Q (By Mr. Grammas) Did you not testify 15 earlier, Dr. Tucker, that you had been compensated to 16 date approximately two to three thousand dollars for 17 your time apart from any expenses you've incurred? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Okay. And you got that two or three 20 thousand dollars to compensate you as an expert 21 witness in this case? 22 A No. I was given documents that I was asked 23 to spend time to review, and I haven't been asked 47 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024087 1 anything about them. 2Q Why did you charge them then? 3A Because I spent time doing it. 4Q In other words, you get paid for your time 5 just like lawyers get paid for their time? 6A When I'm not dealing with factual aspects of 7 the case I do, yes. 8Q And therefore there's only one conclusion we 9 can draw, Dr. Tucker, you have received compensation 10 in this lawsuit, according to your testimony, for at 11 least two or three thousanddollars, correct? 12 A Correct. 13 Q Okay. Now, how long did you meet -- you 14 said you met two or three hours with Mr. Peck 15 yesterday? 16 A I said I got here at a quarter to 2:00 and 17 we met until normal business closing hours. 18 Q At that time did you meet with any lawyers 19 at that time or did you leave? 20 A No, I left and went todinner. 21 Q With the lawyers? 22 A I went to dinner with a couple of lawyers, 23 yes. 48 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024088 1Q Did y'all talk about your testimony today 2 over dinner? 3A No. We talked about horses. 4Q So the only time you discussed your 5 testimony here today with any lawyers that have hired 6 you to testify was during the period of time you came 7 to this law firm and met with Mr. Peck? 8A Correct. 9Q Now, tell me, sir, what you and Mr. Peck 10 talked about as far as preparing you for your 11 testimony? 12 MR. PECK: I'm instructing you -- I 13 object to the form of that question on the grounds it 14 calls for attorney-client communication and therefore 15 instruct you not to answer. 16 Q You will admit that y'all did talk about 17 your testimony today and Mr. Peck advised you as to 18 where he thought I may ask you questions and presented 19 you documents and those type things? 20 MR. PECK: Object to that question and 21 calls for attorney-client communication and instruct 22 him not to answer. 23 Q Are you going to follow Mr. Peck's advice 49 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024089 1 and not answer my questions? 2A Yes, sir. 3Q Why did Monsanto hire you to develop a 4 method to test for very small levels of PCBs in the 5 late '60s? 6A To be truthful with you, I wasn't hired to 7 do that. I was hired because I had a Ph.D. in 8 chemistry and I just completed my work at the 9 University of Iowa in analytical/organic chemistry and 10 that's where I was. 11 Q Why did they ask you, then, after you were 12 already hired to try to come up with a method to test 13 for very minuscule levels of PCBs in the environment? 14 A To the best of my recollection, we had 15 received a communication from the United Kingdom, we 16 had some facilities over in Robin and they had passed 17 a Telex to us that indicated that the Swedish folks 18 were finding some compounds that they referred to in 19 that Telex as polychlorinated biphenols which 20 subsequently we learned were not polychlorinated 21 biphenols but polychlorinated biphenyls and there is a 22 difference. 23 MR. PECK: Spell that. 50 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024090 1 THE WITNESS: B-i-p-h-e-n-o-l-s is 2 biphenols. And biphenyls is b-i-p-h-e-n-y-l-s. It is 3 a difference in molecular structure. 4Q And the PCBs is the one with the Y in it? 5A Yes, sir. 6Q Okay. 7A And there was some concern as to whether or 8 not these reports could be true and so it was just 9 kind of like a heads up, kind of routine because these 10 folks were the ones that were looking primarily at DDT 11 and some other compounds that had been intentionally 12 broadcast around that there was some concern about. 13 Q What do you mean byintentionallybroadcast? 14 A Well, I mean that DDT and in pesticides like 15 that were intentionally sprayed all over the plant to 16 do what they were supposed to do. And so it was kind 17 of surprising to folks that they could find them 18 wherever they looked and that was attributed to the 19 fact that they were kind of recalcitrant, in other 20 words, they lasted in the environment a while but also 21 it was true that they were continuously sprayed and 22 continued to be sprayed, but they were intentionally 23 sprayed around so there was no surprise that they were 51 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024091 1 all over the place. 2Q I guess what I'm trying to figure out is why 3 did Monsanto ask you to devise some way to test for 4 PCBs at these minuscule levels, I mean, we're talking 5 about parts per billion levels, right? 6A Correct. 7Q I mean, you developed technology to test in 8 the parts per billion. That to me is a mind boggling 9 number, that is a very small number. Would you agree 10 with that? 11 A Correct. 12 Q Why in the world were you trying to test 13 PCBs at that such of a small level? 14 A That small of a level has to do with the 15 methodology that's used in the sensitivity of the 16 methodology and that turns out to be the sensitivity 17 of the methodology that was employed to measure these 18 things that we've finally developed and established. 19 The reason I was asked to take on that and to 20 look at it was because Monsanto was curious and not 21 necessarily concerned but curious as to whether or not 22 this could be really true. 23 And the reason I was given the assignment 52 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024092 1 was I was the newest Ph.D. out of school, and probably 2 the one that was most familiar with the techniques 3 that were being developed, and in a position to carry 4 forward that kind of thing because of the fact that I 5 was this brand new Ph.D. out of school. 6Q Well, Monsanto knew that PCBs from its plant 7 were in the river systems below its plant because 8 there are documents that say they saw free globules of 9 PCBs floating down Snow Creek and Choccolocco Creek. 10 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 11 question. 12 Q So if they already know -- here's what I 13 don't understand. You're not disputing that Monsanto 14 knew that PCBs were in this river system because they 15 saw them in there long before you became involved, 16 right? 17 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 18 question. 19 Q What I am trying to get, do you agree or 20 disagree with that? 21 A I don't agree that you can see PCBs. I've 22 never seen a PCB that I could look at and say that's a 23 PCB unless it had a label on it or unless I used very 53 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024093 1 sophisticated analytical techniques to discern that 2 from a million other things that look just like PCBs 3 when you can see them. 4Q Well, let me ask you this: What if - 5A So that's why I'm having problems with it -- 6Q Have you ever seen a document where Monsanto 7 said there are free globules of PCBs floating down the 8 river? 9A Yes, I have. 10 Q All right. Now, did you doubt or canyou 11 even -- can you doubt that that is exactly what it 12 was? 13 A Sure. 14 Q Even though thesepeople workedaround PCBs 15 for decades saw exactly what it looked like, knew what 16 it looked like when they were globules and said that 17 looks just like the PCBs in our plant? 18 A Let me try to put into context if you'll 19 allow me. 20 If I took Quaker State Oil and poured it 21 into a glass and I took Shell Oil and poured it in a 22 glass, I showed you the two without you being able to 23 see the labels, could you tell me which one was Shell 54 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024094 1 and which was Quaker State? You could tell me they 2 were both oils. 3 So I don't doubt the fact that these folks 4 may have seen oil at the bottom of that. That's not 5 an uncommon thing at a plant. 6Q Oil or PCBs - 7A I draw the conclusion -- 8Q Wait a minute - 9 MR. PECK: Let him -- he's not done 10 answering the question. Let him finish. 11 MR. GRAMMAS: Wait a minute -- 12 MR. PECK: You can't cut him off. 13 MR. GRAMMAS: He's not answering my 14 question. 15 MR. PECK: He's going to finish his 16 answer. 17 A To draw the conclusion that oily materials 18 that you saw in the bottom of the stream were PCBs 19 requires more sophisticated detection techniques than 20 that. To draw the conclusion that they might be does 21 not. 22 Q Okay. So you dispute that what these 23 witnesses said they saw were in fact PCBs? 55 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024095 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. A I dispute the fact that they were all PCBs. Q What I'm trying to get at here is and you can split hairs with me all day long, it doesn't matter to me, we can stay here all day. It's a simple point I'm trying to understand. They were manufacturing millions of pounds of PCBs at the Anniston facility, Monsanto was, right? A Correct. Q And we know thousands and thousands of pounds of PCBs were escaping that facility and finding their way into Snow Creek and Choccolocco Creek, right? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. A Are you talking over a twenty year period? Q Over the entire period they manufactured it. A Sure, we do know in retrospect that PCBs were escaping from the plant, absolutely Q And we're talking about thousands and thousands and thousands of pounds of it? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 56 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024096 1 question. 2A I don't think that's beenfirmly 3 established. 4Q Well, don't you think that Monsanto should 5 know how many PCBs escaped its facility? 6A Correct. 7Q They don't know that? 8A I think they could look at -- let's keep it 9 in context, if I may. That was a product we 10 manufactured to sell, the intention was not to lose 11 the material down the road or not get it to the 12 customer. The intention was to get 99.99 percent or 13 even 99.99 percent if you could to the client because 14 that's the way the company made business, that's the 15 way it paid the shareholders and that's the way the 16 shareholders bought food and things of that sort. 17 The intention was not to manufacture PCBs 18 and throw them away. The intention was to deliver 19 them to the customer, so every effort was made to 20 deliver a hundred percent of the material to the 21 customer. There is no incentive not to. 22 Now, the problem comes in what is a hundred 23 percent. And as you pointed out, if you're 57 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024097 1 manufacturing millions of pounds of things, one pound 2 is not -- you're pretty close to a hundred percent if 3 that's all you lost. 4Q If you're manufacturing millions of pounds 5 and by your words all you lost is thousands of pounds, 6 you're still pretty close to a hundred percent, right? 7 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 8 guestion, those weren't his words. 9A I said yes. 10 Q My point is, over this period of time 11 Monsanto knew that thousands and thousands of pounds 12 of this stuff, PCB, were escaping its plant, whether 13 intentionally or not, were escaping its plant to find 14 its way into Snow Creek and Choccolocco Creek? 15 MR. PECK: Object to the form. 16 A I don't agree with that. 17 Q You don't agree with that. But you will 18 agree that Monsanto knew PCBs were there? 19 A Let me -- if Monsanto was so damn sure PCBs 20 were there, why did they ask me to develop a 21 methodology to measure that? 22 Q Now you're coming into my next line of 23 guestioning. 58 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024098 1 I don't understand why they paid you to 2 figure out a way to test PCBs at such small levels 3 when they already knew that free globules of the stuff 4 were floating down the river. 5 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 6 question. 7Q Did they ever tell you why they wanted you 8 to test for such small levels? 9A The reason we designed tests to test for 10 small levels because that's what we were finding in 11 the environment, were small levels, parts per million 12 or less. 13 Q If nothing was developed, as you say, until 14 you came up with this way of testing it, how did they 15 know they were finding it at that such small levels? 16 A The results from the Swedish folks indicated 17 that the levels were at the parts per million level. 18 Q How did the Swedish people have the 19 technology to find that out if you were the one who 20 developed this methodology? 21 A The Swedish people used similar technology 22 to identify the pesticides like DDT and things of that 23 sort. That was the very first time that they had 59 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024099 1 adopted any of that and actually used it to measure 2 PCBs . 3Q There were technologies available, sir, 4 before you were charged with the task of testing PCBs 5 at such a small level that would allow Monsanto to do 6 the very same thing, that the people in Sweden did? 7 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 8 question. 9A I don't agree with that. 10 Q Here is what I don't understand. If the 11 people were finding it at these small levels, they 12 obviously were using some technology that allowed them 13 to do that. 14 A But the technology that was used was called 15 electron capture, that was the detection system that 16 was used. 17 Electron capture detects things that capture 18 electrons. And chlorinated aromatics which is the 19 type of organic compound that PCBs and DDTs and a lot 20 of other constituents are capture electrons. 21 So if those materials were in a sample and 22 were extracted, prepared properly, delivered to the 23 detector, the detector would see it. 60 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024100 1 Now, the detector only says there is 2 something that captures electrons there. It doesn't 3 say that it's PCBs, it doesn't say that its DDT, it 4 doesn't say what it is, it just says it has the 5 property of capturing electrons. So a lot of people 6 were seeing a lot of things that had property of 7 capturing electrons. They didn't know if they were 8 PCBs or DDT or Toxaphene or exoprobenzene (spelled 9 phonetically) or any of those things. 10 So to say the technology was available is 11 fine. 12 Q Why did - 13 A I think it was - 14 MR. LIGHTFOOT: Wait a minute, he 15 hasn't finished his answer, Pete. 16 Q Go ahead. 17 A To say that people -- that that kind of 18 technology was available to measure PCBs is a little 19 erroneous. I mean, nobody knew that PCBs were out 20 there until some more sophisticated technology came 21 along that was used that actually does an absolute 22 identification of the materials in these samples. And 23 that's where the Swedes had been and that is where 61 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024101 1 they connected a master counter to a GEC and that was 2 the first time that was done. 3Q Okay. The Swedes knew that there are 4 minuscule levels of PCBs being found, true or false? 5 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 6 question. 7A The Swedes reported they had found minuscule 8 levels of PCBs in the same samples that they were 9 analyzing for pesticides. 10 Q And are we talking about parts per million 11 or parts per billion or what are we talking about? 12 A Both. 13 Q All right. The Swedes had a technology. 14 What period of time was this? 15 A It was in the late '60s. 16 Q Before you developed these things you came 17 up with for Monsanto? 18 A Correct. When you say developed, they 19 discovered and did the first few steps. We piggy 20 backed on what they had done when we became aware of 21 it and established those techniques in the United 22 States and developed them further and made them better 23 so that they did your job faster, they did their job 62 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024102 1 more precisely and used those just like you would as 2 eyes to see what was going on so we could begin to 3 understand what was going on. 4 So I didn't invent the electron capture 5 detector. That was invented by a physicist a long 6 time before any of us decided to use it for these 7 things. 8Q And Monsanto was using that technology 9 before they hired you to test what levels of PCBs were 10 escaping its plant, right? 11 A No. Absolutely not. 12 Q They could have used it? 13 A No. 14 Q They couldn't have? 15 A No. 16 Q The Swedes could but Monsanto couldn't? 17 A As soon as we became aware of what the 18 Swedish folks were doing, we set up to do the same 19 thing that they were doing to, one, make sure that 20 what they were doing was really correct and accurate. 21 And two, if it was correct and accurate, be able to 22 use it to find out what was going on. 23 Q Isn't it a fact, sir, that the reason y'all, 63 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024103 1 you personally, were charged with the task of 2 developing an accurate way of testing PCBs in these 3 small quantities is because even in these small 4 quantities PCBs are bad for the environment and bad 5 for human beings? 6A No. 7Q It has nothing to do with that? 8A I did not develop those techniques to 9 determine whether they were bad for human beings or 10 whether they were not bad for human beings. That's 11 not what that technique does. That technique simply 12 tells you if you look at a certain matrix if the 13 materials are there, how much and what kind. It 14 doesn't tell you that they are bad or good. 15 Q What is -- is it avian, a-v-i-a-n, how do 16 you pronounce that? 17 A Avian. 18 Q What is that? 19 A It's like foul, birds, like aquatic or - 20 means aquatic critters. 21 Q It says here in your report you developed or 22 you designed and implemented avian, mammalian -- I 23 guess that is what, animals? 64 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024104 1A Yes. 2Q Would that include human beings? 3A Yes. 4Q Aquatic - 5A Human beings are mammals. 6Q Sir? 7A Yes, human beings are mammals. 8Q Aquatic technology, what is that? 9A Aquatic means water. 10 Q So you developed avian, mammalian and 11 aquatic technology study protocols for tissue residue, 12 bacterial degradation and bioaccumulation studies? 13 A Correct. 14 Q What does all of that mean? 15 A What it means is we developed study 16 protocols that allowed us to study how PCBs interacted 17 with mammalian, aquatic and avian species when they 18 were exposed to them. 19 In other words, if PCBs or PCB containing 20 materials were ingested, for example, by a chicken or 21 rat or a dog, then what happened to it, was it 22 metabolized, where did it go, was it excreted, what 23 happened to it, that's what that means. 65 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024105 1Q When was this? 2A That was in the early -- it must have been 3 early '70s. 4Q Can you get more specific? 5A If -- not at the moment, not without looking 6 at some documents. 7Q Is it your testimony that before that period 8 of time Monsanto had no idea what the impact of PCBs 9 were to birds, animals or aquatic systems? 10 A Yes. 11 Q And how do you -- how are you aware of that 12 understanding? 13 A These -- well, first of all, tissue 14 protocols aren't designed to determine the impact on 15 animals or fish or birds. They are designed to find 16 out what happens to these molecules when they were 17 ingested by the animal or by the fish, by the rat or 18 by the foul, which are representative of things that 19 are in the environment. 20 In other words, if you were to ingest some 21 food with PCBs in it, what happened, where did it go, 22 does it just pass right through the system, does it 23 come out in feces, does it come out in the urine. As 66 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024106 1 you pointed out earlier, some go into the lipid pool, 2 what happens to it when it goes through the liver, 3 does the liver metabolize it, does it produce and 4 congregate and it's then excreted, that's the kind of 5 thing. It doesn't have anything to do with impact. 6Q Are you finished? 7A Yes, sir. 8Q And I don't want to interrupt you, if I 9 interrupt you, just stop me. 10 What you're saying then is your expertise 11 focuses on the PCB molecule and how its affected in 12 the environment as opposed to how the PCB molecule 13 affects the environment? 14 A Correct. 15 Q You've learned in yourstudies that the PCB 16 molecule isn't very much affected by the environment 17 or by birds or by animals or by anything? 18 MR. PECK: Object to the form. 19 A That's not the case at all. 20 Q Tell me how that is not the case. 21 A As I pointed out earlier, wepublished a 22 number of articles that talked about the 23 biodegradability of PCBs, that talked about the affect 67 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024107 1 of sunlight, the affect of other kinds of physical 2 things on PCBs and about the metabolism of PCBs by 3 various avian, aquatic and mammalian species. 4Q Is it your opinion then if you just leave 5 PCBs alone that's an adequate way to remedy a 6 situation where you're finding them in a river system? 7 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 8 question. 9A 10 Q Is it my opinion? Yes. 11 A I don't have an opinion on that particular 12 thing. It's a lot more complex situation than that. 13 And to be fair about something of that sort, you need 14 to look at it, you need to study it, you need to 15 evaluate it and you need to decide what the risk 16 factored ratios are and what's going to be risk 17 factored and what isn't. 18 So to ask me is it my opinion that it's 19 better to leave it there, I will have to admit there 20 may be circumstances where it may just be better to 21 leave it there. 22 Q Will you also admit just as reluctantly that 23 there may be circumstances where you just need to 68 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024108 1 clean it up? 2A I apologize if I'm giving you the impression 3 I'm being reluctant, I'm not. I'm trying to 4 understand your questions and understand whether I've 5 got the knowledge to answer it. 6 Would you do that question again? 7Q Yes. You were able to tell me that there 8 may be circumstances where you're just better off to 9 leave it there, right? 10 A I'm saying those circumstances could exist. 11 And in fact a lot of PCBs go into hazardous landfills 12 where they just are left there and that's exactly the 13 way they are disposed of. So it's very common. 14 Q Yeah. Hazardous landfill you can put it 15 there, that's what it's designed to hold, hazardous 16 materials, right? 17 A Right. 18 Q PCBs are hazardous material? 19 A They are classified has hazardous material 20 under certain circumstances, yes. 21 Q So you would expect PCBs that are removed 22 from a site to be put in a hazardous landfill that is 23 designed to hold them, right? 69 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024109 A That's one option. Q You would not expect that same hazardous material to be left in an aquatic system that is not designed to hold PCBs, right? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question A I would not expect -- I think you are asking me can you cause more harm by dredging up a river than not dredging it up. And I'd have to say you can. Q I'm not asking you that. I didn't say anything about dredging. I didn't ask you that. A Then do your question again. Q If you want to talk about how it's worse to dredge -A Do me a favor and do your question again so I can understand and answer properly. Q Yes, sir. You have told me there are certain situations you are aware of that you're better off leaving the PCBs where they are. A You asked me if I thought there were situations where that could be the best thing to do and I said I thought there probably were. Is that what you said? 70 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024110 1Q Right. Now, by the same token, Dr. Tucker, 2 do you know of a situation where they shouldn't be 3 left where they were and they should be remediated? 4A I'm certain those situations exist too. 5Q You've spent a whole career working around 6 ways to test for PCBs so people can come in and 7 remediate it, right? 8A Right. That's one of the uses of that kind 9 of test. 10 Q Right. I mean, your whole career hasn't 11 been something that is useless, has it, I mean it had 12 a purpose? 13 A I doubt it. 14 Q I doubt it, too. I'm nottrying to be 15 flippant at all. 16 You spent thirty years developing 17 technologies to figure out better and better ways to 18 find these PCBs, among other things, at smaller and 19 smaller amounts, correct? 20 A Correct. 21 Q And the wholereason you did that is because 22 we know the stuff is bad and we want to know where it 23 is no matter how small it is so we can do something 71 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024111 1 about it, right? 2A No. 3Q I just don't understand why you're testing 4 at such small levels for nothing then. 5A Methodology issensitive to thatlevel. 6Q I understand that, sir. But if it doesn't 7 have a purpose - 8A So if you want to see if there is something 9 there or not, you have to know how sensitive the 10 method is. 11 Once you achieve the lowest limit that you 12 can, then you have to say to the best of our ability 13 we can't see it anymore so it might not be there. 14 Q All right. 15 A That particular --electron capture happens 16 to be one of those kinds of technigues that are ultra 17 sensitive. I mean, the technigue was not designed to 18 do parts per trillion stuff initially, that wasn't 19 what it was even intended for. In fact, it wasn't 20 even capable of it until later on when refinements 21 came along. 22 So that's why -- the guestion you're asking 23 me is didn't you design these to look for very, very, 72 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024112 1 very, very low levels and the answer is the 2 methodology could look for very low levels so we used 3 it that way. Where we found high levels, we recorded 4 high levels. Where we found low levels, we recorded 5 low levels. Where we found nothing, we recorded that 6 the method could no longer see anything. 7Q That brings up an interesting point. We'll 8 talk about it very briefly, but you still haven't 9 answered my question, we'll come back to it. 10 A Do your question again. 11 Q When you say something is nondetect, what 12 you're saying is at this level we don't know if there 13 is anything there or not anymore? 14 A Correct. 15 Q You're not saying that it's notthere? 16 A Correct. 17 Q Okay. Now, myonly point is and it's my 18 fault, I'm probably not being clear enough in my 19 questions. I don't understand why Monsanto and all 20 these other companies over this thirty-year period 21 that you've worked with is asking you to test for some 22 chemical at such small levels, why is it necessary to 23 know that PCBs are present in the parts per billion 73 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024113 1 level as opposed to just picking up a glob of it in 2 your hand and saying there is some PCBs in here. Why 3 do we have to distinguish between the amounts is what 4 I'm getting at? 5 To me it seems, correct me if I'm wrong, the 6 reason is we know that PCBs even at those amounts are 7 a bad thing. 8 MR. PECK: Object to the form. 9Q For example, we know that PCBs at two parts 10 per million or greater is sufficient enough to trigger 11 a fish advisory. 12 MR. PECK: Object to the form. There 13 are about three or four questions in there. 14 MR. GRAMMAS: That's what I'm talking 15 about. 16 MR. LIGHTFOOT: There is not a 17 question. 18 A Question? 19 Q Yes. The question is why are you doing it 20 at that such a small level? All the other stuff was 21 there just to help you understand where I'm coming 22 from. 23 MR. PECK: Object to the form. 74 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024114 1A When you analyze a sample for PCBs, you 2 don't know what's there. You don't know if there is a 3 lot or a little. So you run it through a standard 4 routine, you run it through the instrument. If the 5 instrument doesn't see anything, you may concentrate 6 the material that you extracted down to see if you can 7 see something down to the method detection on it and 8 if there's nothing there, you record to this 9 instrument, to the best of its capability, there is 10 nothing there. 11 If there is very high levels of the 12 material, for example, if you took a hundred percent 13 PCB sample and you put it in a little hexane and ran 14 it through, and when you ran it through the 15 instrument, the instrument would just let you know 16 that it was overwhelmed by what you gave it. 17 So at that point you then would dilute it 18 down to the point where it would fall down in the 19 region where the instrument is linear and can 20 quantitatively tell you how much is there. 21 So the electron capture technique is capable 22 of measuring parts per trillion and sometimes lower 23 limits of certain kinds of molecules. That's just it, 75 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024115 1 that's the animal. And that animal has always been 2 that way. So that technique has been used to monitor 3 PCBs down to its method detection limit and its method 4 detection limit happens to be very low. 5 So from the analytical viewpoint, if the 6 method detection limit and the best you can do is one 7 percent, that's the low. 8 Early on before people knew anything about 9 anything they used a sensitivity of method as to 10 finding out whether something was there and whether or 11 not it should be there or shouldn't be there. They 12 didn't know and that's the state of art back there in 13 the '60s and '70s. 14 Q Again, you didn't answer my question. I'm 15 not asking - 16 A Well, I'm trying. 17 Q I know you are. I'm not asking how you did 18 it yet. What I want to know is why were you trying to 19 find it at such small levels, why couldn't you just be 20 satisfied saying, we know it's there at some level, 21 why do we have to keep pushing the technology the 22 farther along we get to get smaller and smaller and 23 smaller techniques to test for it. That's what I 76 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024116 1 don't understand. 2A I think your problem is that your assumption 3 that we didn't agree on earlier that the materials 4 that people, quote, saw as globules were a hundred 5 percent PCBs, we didn't agree on that. 6 You seem to want to portray to me that these 7 were a hundred percent PCBs. I try to portray to you 8 that they weren't. And the reason for developing more 9 sophisticated techniques than visual was that those 10 things there could have been motor oil, just as much 11 as they could have been PCBs. I'm certain that there 12 were motor oils and other kinds of hydraulic fluids 13 used at any chemical plant, so those just as easily 14 could have been those kinds of things that were used 15 in some of the equipment that was used to manufacture 16 the things. 17 So what I was trying to say to you was that 18 these gentlemen had looked at the material, they said, 19 gee, we see some oil materials down there and we think 20 they might be PCBs. That's fine. There was nothing 21 wrong with that statement, that was the state of art 22 and that was good enough at that point in time because 23 there weren't concerns about any of those kinds of 77 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024117 1 stuff. This is many, many years ago. 2 When people began seeing what they thought 3 were PCBs at very low levels, long ways away, things 4 of that, that very first report that Soren Jensen and 5 folks saw as something in the eagle feathers and 6 things of that sort, how can that be, and so at that 7 point in time I was asked to reproduce their work and 8 to verify what they were finding was really true 9 because nobody knew that it was true, so that's why I 10 was asked to do it. 11 Q We're not on the same page, Dr. Tucker. 12 A I apologize for that. 13 Q It's not your fault. A couple of things you 14 mentioned in there. 15 Number one, you did in fact verify that the 16 Swedes findings were correct, you eventually verified 17 that, right? 18 A Yes. 19 Q There were PCBs theywere finding there? 20 A Yes. 21 MR.PECK: Sorry, what? 22 Q I asked him if there were PCBs they were 23 finding in there, in these testing samples. 78 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024118 1 Now, what I'm trying to do, you designed 2 methods to test for the presence or not of, among 3 other things, PCBs. 4A Correct. 5Q You weren't designing methods to test for 6 the presence of, say, an oxygen molecule or a water 7 molecule or carbon or things like that by Monsanto, 8 were you? 9A Sure, I did. 10 Q You were there to see whether PCBs were 11 present or not? 12 A This particular methodology was orientated 13 toward discerning PCBs amongst all the other myriad of 14 things that can be out there, so in this case yes. 15 But as an analytical chemist, I measured a 16 lot of things for Monsanto for a lot of reasons. 17 Q I understand that. 18 A So when you say I didn't develop methods for 19 carbon and for water and those kinds of things, that 20 is incorrect. 21 Q All right. Fair enough. I'm talking about 22 PCB and what was leaving that plant. I don't care 23 about -- I don't want to open up that can of worms and 79 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024119 1 whatever else you did for Monsanto. I'm limiting my 2 question here to what is germane in this lawsuit. And 3 I think you understand what's germane in the lawsuit, 4 PCB contamination. 5 Is that a fair statement? 6 MR. PECK: Pete, if you're trying to 7 suggest he's not answering your questions, that is not 8 the case. You make references to other things and 9 then he has to answer them. 10 Q Do you understand that this is about PCB 11 contamination? 12 A Yes, sir, I do. 13 Q All right. Now, you were out there 14 designing a way to test for these very, very, very 15 parts per billion, parts per trillion levels of PCBs. 16 And I just don't understand why if you're at parts per 17 million why do you have to go to parts per billion. 18 That to me is a small number. Why keep pushing it to 19 the edge. And to me it seems like because you want to 20 know what's there at any level. 21 A The question that you've asked, and I 22 believe I've answered, I would like to try to answer 23 one more time. 80 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024120 1Q Okay. 2A The techniques that were being used by the 3 Swedish folks were the techniques that they used to 4 say that they thought they were seeing PCBs in some 5 environmental samples. 6 Those techniques were the ones that we 7 reestablished in the United States and developed 8 further to determine whether or not what they were 9 saying was really true. 10 So that was the objective of what we were 11 doing. The fact that we were dealing at -- with a 12 technique that can measure anything from percent 13 levels down to parts per trillion has to do with the 14 characteristics of the technique and not necessarily 15 the reason for doing that. 16 So the reason we or I was asked to establish 17 that methodology in the United States and to verify 18 what these folks were finding, that's the reason we 19 chose the techniques they were using. 20 And I think I said that earlier. I thought 21 I tried to say that to you earlier. 22 (Brief recess taken.) 23 Q In your report, let's go ahead and make this 81 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024121 1 an exhibit. 2 3 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 3 Number 1 was marked 4 for identification.) 4 5 5 6Q I've made that an exhibit. I've got a copy 7 of it. 8 Have you seen that before? 9A Yes. 10 Q Did you prepare the words that are contained 11 in this document entitled "expert report of E. Scott 12 Tucker, III"? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Did you actually physically type the words 15 and gave them to the lawyers? 16 A Yes. 17 Q Were any changes made to this report after 18 you gave it -- obviously this is the final report, 19 correct? 20 A Yes. 21 Q Were there any drafts of thereportbefore 22 it became a final report? 23 A I'm trying to remember. There might have 82 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024122 1 been some typographical changes but nothing of 2 substance. And anything that is in here -- I can read 3 them more carefully, anything in here I would have 4 approved. 5Q You would have actually written it? 6A I wrote it. But, I mean, if someone decided 7 that they wanted me to graduate in 1960 instead of 8 '61, I would have to agree with it. 9Q You would have to say whether it was true or 10 not -- in other words, you wouldn't let lawyers just 11 tell you what to testify unless you agreed with it? 12 A Correct. 13 Q I don't blame you. Paragraph six. It says 14 that you will testify from a scientific -- are you 15 with me? You will testify from a scientific and 16 analytical perspective regarding the details of 17 Monsanto's response to the discoveries of the 18 international scientific community in the late '60s 19 and early '70s regarding the persistence and 20 accumulation of PCBs in the environment. 21 Did I read that correctly? 22 A Yes. 23 Q Tell me whatthose details of Monsanto's 83 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024123 1 response were. 2A It meant, it means to say that as 3 information became available, Monsanto became aware of 4 it, that the information was checked to see how 5 correct it was and that actulins (spelled 6 phonetically) were formulated continuously as a result 7 of the information that was coming in in terms of if 8 anything should be done and if anything should be done 9 what was going to be done. In other words, 10 there was a planned orderly manner in which was 11 proceed -- we proceeded as information became 12 available both internally and externally. 13 Q What information are you talking about? 14 A Well, there were a lot of folks out there 15 that were doing electron capture measurements of 16 pesticides. And right after Soren Jensen and Gunther 17 Widmirk did the first -- announced that they thought 18 that these peaks that they had been seen were PCBS, 19 their folks started looking at it, including us. 20 A lot of people became interested in the 21 fact that some of the things they may have been seeing 22 could potentially be PCBs but they didn't know what 23 they were. 84 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024124 1 And so there were a lot of reports - 2 everyone jumped on the band wagon, oh, boy, you know, 3 we finally found out what these things were that we've 4 been seeing for a long period of time, maybe they are 5 PCBs. So a lot of that information had to be looked 6 at and looked at carefully because a lot of the things 7 people were seeing, not all of them were PCBs, that's 8 for sure. 9Q What period of time are we talking about 10 here? 11 A I believe early -- late 1960's. I didn't 12 join Monsanto until about 1967. And I believe in 1968 13 or so is when we received the first reports and so it 14 would be -- it would start then. 15 Q And you received these first reports from 16 the Swedes? 17 A No. We received them from the plant that 18 was in the United Kingdom in Robin and they forwarded 19 to us the fact that they understood these folks were 20 reporting to have seen polychlorinated biphenols, 21 that's the way it started. And polychlorinated 22 biphenols are not biphenyls. So that -- it's kind of 23 like an evolutionary process, it was like, gee, 85 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024125 1 they're reporting these kinds of things, we make 2 products like that, could that be. And that is how it 3 started. 4Q All right. The information then that you 5 talked about earlier when I asked you what the details 6 of Monsanto's response were, you said when information 7 became available, you were talking about when these 8 people over in Europe began discovering that PCBs were 9 being found in the environment at small levels, they 10 let Monsanto know about it; is that the information 11 you're talking about? 12 A No. The scientific community has two routes 13 by which information are published: one is official 14 and one is unofficial. A lot of conversations go on 15 in a conjecture and that kind of things, at meetings 16 and that kind of thing, so the official reports were 17 not far along, far enough along to be verified and 18 that Widmirk and folks felt comfortable with to have 19 necessarily published. But they were saying, gee, 20 we're seeing these things and we think they're PCBs, 21 you know, it's an ongoing kind of thing. 22 So that's when we began to first hear about 23 it and that was when we began to think, well, gee, you 86 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024126 1 know, we make these, we wonder if there is any 2 connection. 3Q Did you have any involvement at Monsanto 4 other than developing these analytical tests and 5 studying the PCB molecule itself, did you have any 6 input in other decisions, for example, like whether to 7 continue making PCBs, whether to warn customers about 8 things that you learned that Monsanto learned about 9 PCBs, or those type of things? 10 A No, those are not the areas of my 11 expertise. My expertise was to provide analytical 12 information and to testify to the veracity of it, how 13 good it was and especially what other people were 14 finding and what we were finding, whether everything 15 made sense and that sort. And then the kind of thing 16 you were talking about were handled by people that are 17 technically trained to do those things. 18 Q Are you able then to testify or do you 19 intend to give testimony regarding the actions 20 Monsanto took outside of determining whether or not 21 these were PCBs once they learned that they were in 22 fact PCBs around the globe being found? Bad question. 23 A Yeah. 87 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024127 1Q I agree. Were you involved in any way in 2 Monsanto's actions that were taken to warn customers 3 about what they were finding and to tell the customers 4 not to let PCBs get out in the environment, those type 5 of things, once you learned that there really were 6 PCBs being found around the globe? 7A I did not make a decision that the customer 8 should be notified or the manner in which the customer 9 should be notified. 10 I did provide the data that said where the 11 PCBs were and the levels at which they were and what 12 they were and began to put together the puzzle that 13 started, that would explain what was going on. 14 I think it's necessary to understand that in 15 1968 or '69 it was a major surprise that something 16 like PCBs which were not intentionally spread around 17 could be found. I mean that was just phenomenal. 18 Nobody understood that kind of thing. And so that's 19 kind of like where you're at. 20 So we had one small piece of a million piece 21 puzzle and we began to look at the pieces and start to 22 put them together. 23 I provided the analytical methodology that 88 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024128 1 was used to see for real where PCBs were and where 2 PCBs weren't and at what levels they were. 3 So to the extent that that information was 4 used in making decisions, I would be asked is it real, 5 is it true, how good is the data, why do you think 6 these things went here and didn't go there on the 7 basis of the chemistry of the thing, which I was -- I 8 was a chemist. 9Q They were asking you your opinions as to how 10 the PCBs got there and why they got there? 11 A Based on the chemical properties of the 12 molecular structure, sure. 13 Q Were you charged with doing that in the 14 entire globe or just the United States or where were 15 your responsibilities? 16 A I think the best way to describe it would be 17 that the responsibilities started out by verifying 18 what Widmirk and Jensen discovered. So if you want 19 that to be global, that's fine. 20 But we really started out closer to home 21 with what we knew and what we had available to us. 22 Q Now, did you go to places outside of your 23 own plant? 89 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024129 1A The first thing we did was get standards of 2 PCBs which are very complex mixtures of the products 3 themselves, representative samples that had good chain 4 of custody and we knew where they went and how they 5 were made and when they were made and things of that 6 sort. And then we used the techniques, electron 7 capture techniques and later on, much later on, the 8 mass spectrometry and the chromatography to 9 characterize these things because nobody really 10 characterized the products that way previously, you 11 know, in the environmental type samples. 12 And then at that point in time when we felt 13 comfortable we knew how they behaved in these 14 analytical techniques, then we went out and took 15 actual real samples that didn't have things in them 16 and put them in there and saw if we could recover them 17 and if they changed and if we got them back a hundred 18 percent, if the methods were working. 19 And then once that was done, then we went 20 out and we got samples where we obviously thought the 21 materials had the highest probability of being to see 22 if they were even there. 23 Q Okay. Where were these locations? 90 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024130 1A The closer to the source, the better off. 2Q Tell me what sources you looked at. 3A Initially we looked at, I think, right close 4 up to the operations in the process. 5Q Monsanto's facilities? 6A Some of those, right. 7Q How many of them made PCBs? 8A I believe in the United States there were 9 two facilities that manufactured PCBs, one was a 10 Krummrich Plant, it's in Sauget, Illinois. 11 One of the product lines manufactured at 12 Sauget or the Krummrich Plant were PCBs. 13 And then Anniston, Alabama, of course, was 14 the other location in the United States that PCBs were 15 manufactured. 16 Q Where else were they manufactured by 17 Monsanto? 18 A I think we had a manufacturing operation in 19 the United Kingdom. And I think outside of that, the 20 rest of them were, you know, the French manufactured 21 PCBs, Japanese manufactured PCBs, the Soviets 22 manufactured PCBs all over the place, the Germans 23 manufactured PCBs. Outside of the United States, most 91 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024131 1 every country that was as developed as we were, even 2 not as developed as we were, manufactured and used 3 PCBs . 4Q How many of those countries that you are 5 aware of, if you know, sold PCBs here in the United 6 States ? 7A I think they may all at one point in time. 8Q Do you know what percentage of PCBs were 9 purchased by Monsanto or from Monsanto as opposed to 10 these other sources? 11 A Monsanto was the predominant supplier of 12 PCBs in the United States. 13 Q Are we talking about 99 percent supplier, 14 something along that nature? 15 MR. PECK: Object to the form. 16 A I think what we're talking about is 17 predominant because if you want me to say 99 versus 18 99.8, I can't. If you want me to say 90, it could be 19 90, it could be 80. 20 I don't think there were real good records 21 in terms of the amount of PCBs that really were 22 exported in the United States, especially early on. 23 Q Earlier on, what period of time are we 92 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024132 1 talking about? 2A We're talking in the early '60s, that's what 3 I thought we were talking about, late '60s and early 4 '70s . 5Q Did you report to the ad hoc committee for 6 PCBs ? 7A Did I provide information that was used by 8 the ad hoc committee or did I report directly to them? 9Q Either way. 10 A Both. 11 Q Okay. 12 A And by reporting directly to them, if I 13 remember correctly, the individuals on the ad hoc 14 committee were people like Bill Richards and some of 15 those kinds of folks. 16 Q Wheeler, Richard? 17 A Yeah, Richard. 18 Q John, E. B. John, do you recall him being on 19 there? 20 A Bill Richards was the director of the 21 functional fluids group and I reported information 22 directly to him at times and to his people. 23 Q Mr. Farrar? 93 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024133 1A Martin Farrar was the director of the 2 plasticizers group and I reported directly to him and 3 to his people. Both those groups used PCBs as fluids. 4Q When did you first start your research here 5 when this information became available, what period of 6 time did the Swedes do this? 7A It was in the late '60s. 8Q Can you get more specific? 9A You can get more specific by looking at the 10 publications. I mean, they eventually published that 11 information. 12 Q Okay. Now, Monsanto knew that PCBs were in 13 the environment well before that time, didn't they, 14 are you aware of that? 15 MR. PECK: Object to the form. 16 A We saw them. They were all over the place. 17 Q No. You were aware of documents where 18 Monsanto verified that PCBs were in the environment 19 before the Swedes ever knew they were in the 20 environment. 21 MR. PECK: Object to the form of 22 question. 23 A If you exclude the word environment, I will 94 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024134 1 agree with you. If you won't exclude the word 2 environment, I won't agree with you. Swedes analyzed 3 environmental samples that were a long distance from 4 any source -- point source of use or manufacture. 5 That was the surprising thing about the Swedes, okay. 6Q Okay. 7A To know that you might have some PCBs coming 8 out of one of the process streams or something of that 9 sort, that is different than you knew it was in the 10 environment, because that doesn't mean it's widespread 11 in the environment, it means it's just right outside 12 the plant. Or if somebody was using it to make 13 transformers or if somebody was using it as a 14 hydraulic fluid, to know there might be on the floor 15 of that plant, you could use that, well, you knew it 16 was in the environment. 17 Q That makes sense. 18 A That's not true, that's not what we mean 19 when we say something is in the environment. 20 Q Correct me if I'm wrong, what you're saying 21 is the significance of the Swedish study was that 22 Monsanto first became aware in the late '60s or 23 whenever the date of this study, the exact date of the 95 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024135 1 study was, that PCBs were ubiquitous? 2 MR. LIGHTFOOT: Object to the form. 3A No, absolutely not. That is not what I 4 mean. 5Q Tell me how that's not, tell me how I am 6 wrong there. 7A Monsanto became aware that the Swedish folks 8 had found PCBs in eagle feathers with some of the 9 stuff that they had found it in, taken out of a museum 10 and that they had found some in environmental samples 11 that they were analyzing for DDT and Dieldrin and 12 Aldrin and all the soup of chlorinated pesticides that 13 are out there, and it first came over as 14 polychlorinated biphenols which is a different product 15 line. It's a product line that's manufactured by 16 chemical companies but it wasn't PCBs. And then later 17 that was verified that it was really PCBs, that that 18 was a typo error in the telex and they became aware 19 that they found them in a few samples in Sweden and it 20 was like, gee, what are they doing there, we need to 21 look at this. Monsanto was the kind of company that 22 was concerned, as you pointed out earlier, about the 23 impact of its products on everything. They said, gee, 96 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024136 1 this is unusual, we wonder if it's true. 2 Scott, see how they're doing it, their 3 analytical chemists and see what we need to do to put 4 together to do what they're doing to verify whether or 5 not what they're finding is true or whether it could 6 be something else, whether they're confused. 7Q And that, again, I think we've said this 8 earlier, that's what you did in your early work and 9 you did in fact verify that what they were finding was 10 true. 11 A Yes, we did verify that. In some instances 12 when people thought peaks were PCBs, they really were. 13 In some instance we verified that when they thought 14 they were PCBs, they were not, too. I need to say 15 that. 16 Q Fair enough. Now, you testified when I 17 asked you earlier about the details of Monsanto's 18 response to these early findings, you said that you 19 were charged with determining or you were going to 20 testify about what actions Monsanto formulated in 21 response to these findings. 22 A To the extent they involved me and to the 23 extent I was aware of what they were doing, it 97 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024137 1 basically said that -- you just want a summary? 2Q Summary. 3A My impression was that as the information 4 became available, Monsanto understood the importance 5 of it and looked at it very carefully and developed 6 their actions based on that information. 7Q Again, and I don't want to talk too much 8 generality, when you say the information, what I'm 9 asking you is is once Monsanto learned that PCBs were 10 in fact in the environment and got you to verify that, 11 what actions did they take at that point, if any? 12 A The actions that they took, as I recall, 13 were first they wondered why because sure there was no 14 intention to distribute these things all over the 15 place. And at that point in time nobody understood 16 how things moved around so freely in the environment. 17 Especially something that wasn't very volatile, wasn't 18 very soluble in anything, wasn't, you know, 19 intentionally thrown around and in fact was a very 20 valuable product that people attempted not to lose. 21 So it was a real enigma. I mean, we just 22 didn't understand how these things could move about in 23 the environment. So they began to generate more 98 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024138 1 knowledge about the individual characteristics of the 2 molecule and how they interacted with the environment 3 to begin to explain how this was occurring. 4Q Okay. What did they learn about how PCBs 5 moved around in the environment? 6A Maybe it will help if I tell you that the 7 first PCBs that they found in the environment didn't 8 look anything like the products. The materials found 9 by the Swedish folks were not identical fingerprints 10 to any polychlorinated by-products. They were 11 individual groups of isomers that were identified as 12 polychlorinated biphenols. 13 So even at that time the relationship 14 between the product itself as it exactly looks and the 15 materials that they were finding were only in name 16 only. Nobody had really pinned down the fact that the 17 PCBs that were manufactured by Monsanto and those 18 people that manufactured them for the same reasons 19 Monsanto did were the source of those PCBs. 20 They easily could have been from other types 21 of things, other tram components and other products 22 that were intentionally used in a manner that 23 distributed them throughout the environment and in 99 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024139 1 fact that turns out to be the case. It's not the 2 predominant source we know today. 3Q I just want to know that once Monsanto 4 learned that PCBs were out in the environment, what - 5 you said they looked into the issue of how PCBs moved 6 around in the environment to explain how they got 7 there. All I want to know is is what was their 8 eventual explanation? 9A The eventual explanation was that the 10 materials were getting into the environment through 11 the end use of the materials, that the people that we 12 were selling them to and things of that sort, even 13 though they didn't intend to have them spread around, 14 were actually spreading them around. 15 Q How? 16 A Through the use of the materials. 17 Q Elaborate on that. 18 A A transformer leaks, a capacitor leaks, 19 hydraulic fluid system leaks. Nobody knew -- I mean, 20 you have to remember at that time EPA didn't exist. 21 Environmental Protection Agency didn't exist. Nobody 22 was real concerned about that kind of thing. 23 Q About what kind of thing? 100 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024140 1A About impact of our activities on the 2 environment. 3Q Monsanto was not concerned about the impact 4 of its activities on the environment before the EPA 5 came into existence? 6 MR. PECK: Object to the form. 7A They were in those areas that the chemicals 8 were intentionally spread about in the environment. 9 Sure, absolutely. An agricultural division where 10 pesticides and things of that sort, people were 11 concerned. 12 But the EPA wasn't around at that point in 13 time. The point I'm trying to make to you is is that 14 the general use of products that weren't used as 15 pesticides and things of that sort, nobody understood 16 that they could be spread around so easily. 17 Q All right. You said that nobody was 18 concerned about the impact of the environment at that 19 time before the EPA became involved. 20 What I want to do is follow up on that. Was 21 Monsanto concerned prior to the EPA coming into 22 existence about the impact that PCBs they manufactured 23 may have had on the environment -- 101 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024141 1 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 2 question. 3Q -- to your knowledge? 4A What I said, I did not say nobody was 5 concerned, what I said was nobody knew they should be 6 concerned. 7 The state of the knowledge at that point in 8 time was that PCBs and other kinds of products like 9 those were quite safe, there wasn't any big issue with 10 it and nobody understood that they were spread around, 11 nobody knew that. So at that point in time there were 12 sure concerns from a worker exposure viewpoint, a user 13 exposure viewpoint, things of that sort, but 14 everything that had been looked at on those products 15 there had been no problems when they were used 16 properly. Now came along this report that, gee, 17 they're finding them at -- they're finding the same 18 kind of molecule at very low levels in Sweden. They 19 don't look like our product and there is no -- nobody 20 understands how they could possibly be and where did 21 they come from. 22 Q And - 23 A As Monsanto became aware of more and more 102 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024142 1 what was going on, they were very concerned and they 2 took proper actions and the record reflects that if 3 you look at it. 4Q Dr. Tucker, you advised at the ad hoc 5 committee that one of the sources were the end users 6 of the product. 7A Yes. 8Q Did you also advise the ad hoc committee 9 that for PCB contamination at Monsanto that one of the 10 sources was the Monsanto facility that manufactured 11 PCBs ? 12 A Certainly the information that Igenerated 13 established both of those things. 14 Let me clarify something, I didn't advise 15 the ad hoc committee of anything. I reported to 16 individuals who were on the ad hoc committee who then 17 assembled that information in a format of, you know, 18 looking at it from all the different kinds of angles 19 they could to see what should be done, if anything. 20 Q Right. And I'm reading from a document, I'm 21 not going to make it an exhibit, I'll bring it over to 22 you so you can look at it with me. It's Bates stamped 23 number DSW014625. It's been identified in previous 103 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024143 1 depositions. It's a document with a confidential 2 stamp on the top of it entitled minutes of Aroclor Ad 3 Hoc Committee, first meeting dated September 5th, 4 1969. Correct? 5A Correct. 6Q And some of these people we've already 7 talked about as being on the ad hoc committee and you 8 see their names there, right? 9A Yes, I do. 10 Q The way I'm reading this means there are 11 obviously some objectives written there from the ad 12 hoc committee. Were you made aware of the ad hoc 13 committee's objectives regarding the -- by the way, so 14 the record is clear, Aroclor means PCB, doesn't it? 15 A Aroclor is one of the product names that 16 Monsanto used for PCBs, yes. 17 Q So this - 18 A Aroclor doesn't mean PCBs. 19 Q I understand. Aroclor is like the trade 20 name Monsanto gave its PCBs? 21 A Correct, PCB products manufactured by 22 Monsanto. 23 Q And this document could just as easily say 104 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024144 1 minutes of PCB ad hoc committee and make the same 2 sense? 3A Or it could say minutes of Anaclor adhoc 4 committee, too, which is the Japanese PCB product or 5 Prodolac. 6Q Well, all I want to know is this document 7 could say minutes of PCB ad hoc committee and it means 8 the same thing? 9A No, it wouldn't, absolutely not. 10 Q It would not. And why not? 11 A Because Aroclor was the product we 12 manufactured. 13 Q And it was a PCB? 14 A It was a specific type of PCB that we 15 manufactured. Aroclor was our trade name. This was 16 about our product. 17 Q Okay. Were you made aware of these 18 objectives ? 19 A Yes, I've seen this document. 20 Q Okay. Were you -- at the time, I'm talking 21 about, were you made aware the objectives of the ad 22 hoc committee were to prevent continued sales and 23 profits of aroclors to permit continued development of 105 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024145 1 uses and sales and to protect the image of organic 2 division and the corporation, were you aware of those 3 objectives ? 4A Yes. 5Q At the time? 6A Yes. 7Q Okay. Where is it, sir, listed in these 8 objectives to protect the environment from PCBs? 9A I'll have to tell you a couple of things 10 about this. 11 One, at this point in time, nobody was 12 accusing PCBs of having any impact on the 13 environment. 14 Q So -- 15 A This is in 1969, September 5th, and this is 16 just shortly after the Jensen-Widmirk discovery, so 17 nobody is predicting dire consequences or saying 18 anything is wrong with PCBs. All they're saying is, 19 gee, we're finding them in the environment and we 20 can't explain it. 21 Q Well, ifMonsanto - 22 A So -- 23 Q Let me ask you this -- 106 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024146 1A What's your question? 2Q If Monsanto didn't think that PCBs being 3 found in the environment were a problem, why was it a 4 concern with protecting its image at that time? 5A How do I answer this question? I think that 6 perhaps it shows their words well at the time but 7 poorly in today's context. 8 I think when they talk about protecting 9 their image, I think what they're talking about is 10 making sure people understand that the company is a 11 concerned citizen and that it needs to gather the 12 information to do things, to do the correct things, 13 make the right decision. 14 PCBs were a product line that had many 15 safety consequences associated with their uses. A lot 16 of buildings didn't burn down or explode because of 17 PCB uses. A lot of hydraulic systems could be used 18 close to fire and heat transfers and a lot of lives 19 were saved by using these kinds of fluids. 20 We just couldn't say, uh, we won't make 21 those anymore, and who would, I mean, nobody knew 22 there was anything wrong at this point in time. 23 So the objective was to put the effort in to 107 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024147 1 determine what was going on so responsible decisions 2 could be made. 3Q It's your testimony sitting here today that 4 as of September 5th, 1969 Monsanto did not know that 5 anything negative could happen with exposure to PCBs 6 by humans, the environment, fish, aquatic life, by 7 anything, right? That's what you just said. 8 MR. PECK: Object to the form. 9A Well, I know what I said and that wasn't 10 quite what I said. 11 What I said was that there was no 12 information that established that. 13 Q Well, that's - 14 A To try to say that it couldn't happen and 15 that they knew it couldn't happen, I mean, you can't 16 do that. 17 Q What you're saying then is there is no 18 published information to establish that? 19 A No. What I'm saying here is the public and 20 private information that was available to us at that 21 point in time did not clearly indicate that there were 22 any environmental impact. 23 Q You will admit that there is nowhere listed 108 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024148 1 in these objectives from this first ad hoc committee 2 meeting that Monsanto should do whatever it takes to 3 protect the environment, the aquatic life, birds, 4 animals, fish, humans or anything like that as part of 5 the objectives? 6 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 7 question. 8A You know -- 9Q It's not there, is it, sir? 10 A I will not -- I tried to tell you that when 11 the company said they wanted to protect the image of 12 the organic division that what they were trying to say 13 was that they wanted to be a responsible corporate 14 citizen which includes the fact that we're all human 15 beings and they didn't want to hurt anybody, but they 16 didn't want to make precipitous decisions that would 17 impair the safety of the product line because of what 18 its uses were. 19 Q Didn't have anything to do with the money it 20 was making from the product? 21 A Absolutely it had something to do with the 22 money. 23 Q We know down here on this background 109 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024149 1 discussion a number of things that the ad hoc 2 committee had at its disposal regarding PCBs. 3 Did you provide or people working under you 4 provide some of the information on this background 5 discussion? 6A Yes, I'm sure we did. 7Q For example, under paragraph heading number 8 two, this ad hoc committee states that PCBs have been 9 found in fish, oysters, shrimp and birds. 10 Did you confirm that to the committee based 11 on your studies? 12 A No. What that says basically is it's a 13 general statement that says PCBs have been found, it 14 has been reported that PCBs have been found in fish, 15 oysters and shrimp and birds. Some types of those 16 samples we analyze, too, other ones were analyzed by 17 their folks. So what it's basically saying is there 18 have been reports of PCBs in fish, oyster, shrimp and 19 birds. 20 Q Okay. It doesn't say anything about reports 21 being found, this document says in fact PCBs have been 22 found in fish, oysters, shrimp and birds. Did I read 23 that correctly? 110 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024150 1A That's correct. But I'll have to tell you 2 I've never analyzed an oyster. 3Q Okay. That's fine. Did anybody under your 4 direction do that? 5A No. 6 MR. LIGHTFOOT: Hang on. Maybe I need 7 to make a copy of that. Is that your only copy, Pete? 8 MR. GRAMMAS: It is here. If you want 9 to make a copy, I will make it an exhibit. 10 MR. LIGHTFOOT: Well, I just don't want 11 you to hover over the witness unduly and this has gone 12 on for quite a while. 13 MR. GRAMMAS: You can make a copy of 14 it. I will be glad for you to do it. 15 MR. LIGHTFOOT: Okay. 16 (Discussion held off the record.) 17 18 (Plaintiff's Exhibit 18 Number 2 was marked 19 for identification.) 19 20 20 21 Q What we've done, Dr. Tucker, we've made this 22 document that I said I wasn't going to make an exhibit 23 now an exhibit. It's Exhibit 2 to your deposition, Ill Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024151 1 right? 2A Yes, sir. 3Q It's the same document we've been talking 4 about, it's the minutes from the Aroclor ad hoc 5 committee meeting dated September 5th, 1969, right? 6A I'm sure it is but let me look at it. Yes, 7 sir. 8Q Who did the testing then under this 9 background discussion of problem, who provided the 10 information that PCBs were known to be present in 11 fish, oysters, shrimp and birds? 12 A Well, there are a variety of folks. As it 13 says, the information was coming from Great Britain, 14 Sweden, from the Rhine area, there was some 15 information being generated by Lake Michigan, 16 Pensacola Bay in Florida, there were a lot of people 17 that were measuring chlorinated hydrocarbons in the 18 environment, pesticides. And these folks, when they 19 discovered that the peaks they were looking at and 20 didn't know what they were could potentially be PCBs, 21 as well as some other things by the way, they began to 22 make reports of, gee, we're seeing those same peaks, 23 gee, we're seeing PCBs which in some cases were true 112 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024152 1 and some cases not. 2Q How did Monsanto become aware of that? 3A There was a lot of private communications, 4 there was a lot of cooperation between the scientists 5 and everybody else who was trying to figure out what 6 the heck was going on. 7Q At that time, I think you've said this 8 earlier, but I want to make certain, at that time in 9 September of 1969 you're saying that Monsanto did not 10 know that PCBs in the environment had an adverse 11 impact on the environment in terms of aquatic life, 12 fish, birds, things like that? 13 A That's right. Let me mention one more 14 thing. There was no such thing as a PCB standard. 15 The only standards that were available were products 16 that were manufactured by the companies that were 17 manufacturing. 18 So if anybody wanted a PCB standard to use 19 as a reference material or anything of that sort, they 20 really came to the manufacturers and asked them for 21 samples of the material. And we openly provided that 22 to anyone that had credentials and asked. 23 And so at the same time information was 113 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024153 1 shared both from us and from them. 2Q Well, if someone were to ask for this 3 information on this document, Monsanto wouldn't have 4 given it to them because it has a big old confidential 5 stamp on top of it. 6A Well, I think we're talking about apples and 7 oranges. 8Q Back to this same Exhibit 2, sir. Look, if 9 you would, at page three, paragraph seven, problem in 10 producing plants. 11 Did you provide the ad hoc committee any 12 information about PCBs escaping from the Anniston 13 facility that allowed them to write any of the 14 information contained in this topic? 15 A The possibility exists. I mean, we analyzed 16 samples that were submitted to us by the plant folks 17 and even in some instances suggest what they might 18 want to sample. 19 Q What were your conclusions regarding PCBs 20 escaping into the environment from the Anniston 21 facility at that time? 22 A The conclusions were, as we established 23 earlier, that there were PCBs escaping from the plant 114 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024154 during the manufacture Q And going where, sir? A I would have to look at specific samples. But they were going, as I recall, into a drainage ditch and they were going into a settling basin. Q Were any of them leaving the facility? A I'm sure there might have been some leaving the facility Q that? Well, didn't you do testing that confirmed A Later we did, yes. They required, you know, sophisticated techniques to establish that. Q This document, the ad hoc committee members stated that they agreed that until the problems of gross environmental contamination of Monsanto's customers were alleviated, there was little object in going to expensive extremes in limiting discharges from the plants. Did I read that correctly? A Show me where in the document you're reading. Q It's the last sentence on the first paragraph under paragraph seven 115 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024155 A Okay. That's what that says. Q And were you made aware of that decision at the time? A I don't think this was a decision as much as a priority list. This is work in progress. And this is an attempt by these folks who had interest for the various business groups to put together all the information that was available, look at it from every angle they could and to really kind of brain storm what were the questions that should be considered. So -- Q All I'm asking -A This was really priority, it wasn't policy. Q All I'm asking you, Dr. Tucker, all I'm asking you is were you aware of this agreement, I'll use that word, by the ad hoc committee at that time? A This was not an agreement, this was work in progress. These were recommendations based on available information, not necessarily actions that were taken. Q All right. Paragraph seven, page three, last sentence, it says, "it was agreed that", did I read that word correctly? 116 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024156 1A So far you have it absolutely correct. 2Q "Agreed", the word they used in the ad hoc 3 committee was agreed, correct? 4A Right. 5Q All I'm asking you, sir, is at that time 6 were you made aware of the ad hoc committee agreement 7 to not focus on their own plant discharges and to 8 focus on the gross environmental contamination of 9 Monsanto's customers? 10 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 11 guestion. 12 A I was aware of this document and I was aware 13 of that sentence. I wasn't aware of the way you just 14 put it. 15 Q Were you complaining to themat that time, 16 sir, that you needed more help in your lab to be able 17 to do your job properly? 18 A No. 19 Q You weren't? 20 A 21 Q No. How did the ad hoc committee know you needed 22 additional help at that time? 23 A Because they wanted us to do more work. 117 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024157 Q But at that time they didn't fund the proj ect any more or provide any specific actions, did they? A First of all, I didn't complain that we didn't have enough resources. I made them aware that in order to do the kinds of things that we needed to do and they felt we needed to do to give them the answers to questions they had, we would need more resources to do it in a timely fashion. As I said, this is work in progress. It's kind of like, okay, where are we at, what do we need to do next and what do we need to do it and that's what that's about. To characterize this as a complaint is just way out of context. Where does it say complain in here? Q I'm just asking the question. A No, but I object to the way you phrase that. I mean, that just really -Q I'm just asking a question. If you don't agree with it, then give your answer A I have given my answer. Q Paragraph eight, sir. It says, 118 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024158 1 environmental contamination by customers. Our 2 in-plant problems are very small versus problems of 3 dealing with environmental contamination by customers. 4 Did I read that correctly? 5A Yes, sir. 6Q What information did you provide this 7 committee that allowed them to make that analysis? 8 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 9 question. 10 A We verified the findings of the folks in 11 Sweden. And -- 12 Q Well -- 13 A And looked at various other samples and were 14 beginning to find PCBs in a lot of places that we 15 never thought they ever would be. 16 Q I understand that there was agreement at 17 that time that PCBs were much more pervasive in the 18 environment than anyone thought. 19 What I want to know is how was the ad hoc 20 committee able to make the comparison that the 21 problems that Monsanto had at the plant were small 22 compared to what they were facing with the customers? 23 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 119 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024159 question A Well, I think the example in the paragraph that you called out is a clear one. They apparently were aware that the material was being used in oils and utilized in paint that was put on highways and that there was a million pounds of the material put on highways that way. Now, that's getting out there. And so the point is is that the amount that was really coming out of the production unit was minuscule relative to that on a priority basis, if something needed to be done, then you certainly wouldn't go clean the plant up first, you might want to decided whether or not that was an application that should be continued. Q So that means the plant knew at this time how much was escaping, that Monsanto knew at this time how much PCBs were escaping out of the plant? A That's a quantum leap. Q Well, it's not because you've got to make comparrsons. A We're talking about a million pounds here and you have an operating unit that's manufacturing a lot of material and you've already established that 120 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024160 1 some is escaping, not a million pounds or anything of 2 the sort, but something significantly less than that 3 and so on a priority basis which problem do you go 4 after first if it's decided something needs to be 5 done. 6Q What was done then with respect to the 7 problems that the customers of Monsanto were causing 8 at this time? 9A Well -- 10 Q What was done? 11 A Okay. There was -- as knowledge became 12 available, there was an educational program that went 13 on in terms of making the customers each and every one 14 aware of the environmental findings which eventually 15 through conjecture became environmental concerns and 16 the customers were kept up to breast on what was going 17 on. Because anybody could sit down and do a worst 18 case scenario, and say, gee, what happens if we find 19 we need to quit manufacturing these materials, which 20 by the way that's what happened. 21 What do we do, what do those people who use 22 them in paint do, what do those people who use them in 23 capacitors do. So there was a whole educational 121 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024161 1 program to let our customers know what was going on so 2 that everybody could become aware of what needed to be 3 done or what should be done. 4 And, you know, these people at that time it 5 was really felt that, gee, maybe we better be more 6 careful about how we handle the leftover paint, about 7 how we handle this and how we handle that, and maybe 8 some of these applications where we broadcast it need 9 to be curtailed. 10 Q All right. 11 A 12 Q Maybe. What I'm asking,though, is what did 13 Monsanto do with respect to the problems in dealing 14 with the environmental contamination by its customers 15 at this time? 16 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 17 question, asked and answered. 18 Q What did Monsanto do, if anything? 19 A I answered the question. I said that we 20 began to develop an understanding of what was going on 21 and as we developed the understanding, we shared it 22 with our customers, we shared it with government 23 agencies and any agency that was interested and we 122 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024162 1 shared it with scientists, we shared it with 2 universities, we shared it with the USDA, we shared it 3 with the FDA, we shared that information with 4 everybody because we felt that it was a problem that 5 everybody had to be aware of, if something happened. 6 And everybody was concerned about it, they were all 7 interested. So it was like, gee, we're trying to 8 understand what's going on. 9Q Okay. 10 A So they developed a manner in which to 11 notify the clients, to become more aware about where 12 our products were being used and how they were being 13 used by the clients and to offer them our knowledge in 14 terms of whether or not that was a good use, possibly 15 there was something else they might want to substitute 16 for it, you know, things like that. 17 Q All right. What they did is they shared 18 information with the customers to let the customers 19 know the seriousness of the problem at that point in 20 time, right? 21 A I thought I said that without the 22 seriousness at that point. 23 They let the client know what we knew so 123 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024163 1 that the client could participate in the decision and 2 understand where we were going and that we weren't 3 acting precipitously. 4Q Did they go -- did anyone at Monsanto hire 5 contractors to go out and actually start figuring out 6 ways to remediate the PCBs that its customers put in 7 the environment? 8A Okay, we're talking in 1969? 9Q 10 A Yes, sir. No. 11 Q All right. What was preventingMonsanto, if 12 anything, what prevented Monsanto from focusing its 13 concerns on its customers and simultaneously worry 14 about its in-plant problems with respect to PCB 15 contamination in the environment at that time? 16 A Do that question again. 17 Q Yes, sir. What, if anything, are youaware 18 of that prevented Monsanto from simultaneously 19 focusing its concerns on both the customer's 20 contamination of PCBs in the environment and its own 21 in-plant contamination of PCBs in the environment? 22 A First of all, nobody established that there 23 was a problem with PCBs in the environment. We had 124 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024164 1 only established that there were PCBs in the 2 environment and that, gee, I wonder if they are having 3 any problem, if there is any impact whatsoever. 4 So there had been no problem established 5 outside of the fact that we were finding them in the 6 environment. 7 So there wasn't even the knowledge bases to 8 know that anything needed to be done. All this that 9 you're dealing with here is work in progress, 10 conjecture, brain storming, gee, what if this happens, 11 it's a responsible response to information at that 12 point in time on September 5th, 1969. And it's 13 minutes of a meeting where people were trying to take 14 all the information that was available and figure out, 15 gee, what should we do about this. 16 Q You think it is responsible for Monsanto to 17 state that because the gross environmental 18 contamination of its customers has not been alleviated 19 yet that at that time they didn't need to do much of 20 anything to limit the discharges from its own plant? 21 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 22 question. 23 A I think I answered that when I said that 125 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024165 1 what they were saying is, gee, let's keep this in 2 context. On a priority scale of one to ten where do 3 we have need to start if we need to start. 4Q What I'm asking you is, sir, when you 5 prioritize something, that at least suggests to me 6 that you can't do both at the same time. 7 What information do you know that prevented 8 Monsanto from giving its customers all the information 9 that you were out there developing from Monsanto while 10 at the same time figuring out a way to stop 11 discharging all of the PCBs into Snow Creek and 12 Choccolocco Creek from its Anniston plant? 13 MR. LIGHTFOOT: Just a minute, I have an 14 objection if counsel raises his voice at the witness 15 and counsel also fails to take into account the whole 16 paragraph seven which covers what is being done at 17 Anniston. 18 Q You can answer the question, sir. 19 A First I need to understand the question and 20 I'd like you to sort the question out from all the 21 editorial rhetoric, please. I mean, I'm very serious 22 about that. That was more of a statement than a 23 question. And if I missed it, please be polite enough 126 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024166 1 to give it to me again. 2 MR. GRAMMAS: Read it back, Jill. 3 (Record read.) 4A I think in context the statement is 5 responsible. And I would want to include that actions 6 were being taken on all fronts. And I think even 7 earlier you kind of implied that all of the 8 information wasn't being shared. Well, I have to tell 9 you truthfully, a lot of the customers didn't really 10 want to hear it because that was the level of 11 understanding environmental problems at that time, 12 gee, what's the matter with these guys, you know, what 13 are these guys getting all excited about. 14 Q Monsanto felt the same way? 15 A No, absolutely not. Monsanto was trying to 16 communicate that information to people, including 17 government agencies and everybody else, that here's 18 what we're finding, you know, we're not keeping 19 anything from anybody, we don't know what it means, 20 hey, let's get together and figure out what's going on 21 here. 22 Q All I'm asking you, sir, and I don't think 23 you answered my question, what prevented Monsanto from 127 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024167 1 cleaning up its own problems while at the same time 2 warning its customers about potential problems that it 3 became aware of? 4A Nothing. And they were doing both and the 5 record reflects that, if you get into looking at the 6 record as it developed. 7Q Okay. Isn't it a fact, sir, and don't you 8 know it to be a fact based on your experience at this 9 time for the company that Monsanto decided not to 10 reduce its discharges of PCBs into Snow Creek and 11 Choccolocco Creek because it didn't want to spend the 12 month to do so at that time? 13 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 14 question. 15 A Do I agree with that or did I know that? I 16 did not know that. 17 Q Do you agree with that sitting here today 18 reading the document? 19 A Do I agree with your statement? 20 Q Right. 21 A No. 22 Q And the document that you're looking at, 23 Exhibit 2, I believe, does not say that? 128 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024168 1A 2Q It does not say that. You don't think Monsanto has done anything 3 wrong as far as its releases of PCBs into the 4 environment down in Anniston and in St. Clair County, 5 true or false? 6 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 7 question. 8A That's an impossible question to answer. 9 First of all, would you be kind enough to define wrong 10 for me? 11 Q 12 A You don't know what wrong means? I know what you're implying. I know during 13 the period of time when they first began to 14 manufacture PCBs and things of that concern, nobody 15 had the knowledge to know whether it was right, wrong 16 or indifferent. 17 I know they made every effort to take all of 18 the product they manufactured to the marketplace and 19 that's the way it was. 20 And I also know that as they became aware of 21 the fact that material was escaping that they 22 formulated plans to handle that and those plans were 23 accelerated as more information became available as to 129 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024169 1 the potential impacts of PCBs on things. Some of 2 which today aren't even proven yet. 3 I think they acted responsibly and I think 4 the record shows that. To take an excerpt from a 5 document like this which is work in progress and which 6 is draft and which is a first meeting and which is a 7 fact finding situation and try to display it today in 8 the context of the knowledge we have today is 9 difficult for me to swallow. That's why I'm having a 10 hard time answering your questions. 11 Q All I'm asking you to do is tell me, and I 12 think you said the answer is no, did Monsanto do 13 anything wrong over the thirty-year period of 14 manufacture and over the thirty-year period since then 15 of exposure in allowing PCB to leave its facility and 16 get into Snow Creek, Choccolocco Creek and Lake Logan 17 Martin? 18 MR. LIGHTFOOT: Object to the question, 19 because it doesn't take into account knowledge and 20 information available at the time versus knowledge and 21 information available now. 22 Q You can answer the question. 23 A I concur with what I just heard in the sense 130 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024170 1 that -- 2Q You're letting Mr. Lightfoot testify for 3 you? 4A No, I'm absolutely not letting him testify 5 for me. I'm merely stating that he's trying to 6 clarify the answer to you. 7 My answer is is that Monsanto acted in a 8 responsible fashion based on the knowledge available 9 to them at the time it was available in each and every 10 case. 11 Q So you don't think Monsanto has done 12 anything wrong? 13 A That's correct. 14 Q Okay. Now, how many -- you've testified in 15 other cases, have you not, as an expert witness? 16 A As a fact witness. 17 Q Have you ever testified in other cases not 18 for Monsanto but for any company as an expert witness? 19 A Yes. 20 Q How many cases have you testified in whether 21 it be by affidavit, deposition or trial testimony? 22 A Probably two or three. 23 Q And tell me all the cases you've testified 131 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024171 1 in. 2A Most recent case that - 3 MR. PECK: As an expert; is that what 4 you're talking about? 5 MR. GRAMMAS: Right. We'll talk about 6 the others in a minute. 7A We recently had a Circuit Court, United 8 States Circuit Court in Pennsylvania review whether or 9 not we should proceed with remediation based on a suit 10 by a group called AIR, and I was called to testify at 11 that on some analytical information and what it meant 12 and things of that sort. 13 Q When you say - 14 A I don't know whether -- that's kind of like, 15 I mean, I don't know whether that's expert or fact, I 16 think it's both. 17 Q Let's don't distinguish. Let's just talk 18 about your testimony in general. And we'll talk about 19 this one you just started. Because I don't want you 20 to have to make a distinction as to what was fact or 21 what was expert. I don't think that's fair for you to 22 do. 23 So what I want to know is the cases you've 132 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024172 1 testified in the past and you just mentioned this one. 2 When you said "we", who were you testifying on behalf 3 of? 4A I was testifying on behalf of Environmental 5 Protection Agency, for the Department of Justice. 6Q The EPA asked you to testify for them? 7A Yes. 8Q And did they pay you for your testimony? 9A No. 10 Q What was your testimony? 11 A What do you mean by pay? 12 Q Did they pay you to testify? 13 A The company donated my time to testify and I 14 was paid for that. But I don't consider them paying 15 me. 16 Q Did you offer - 17 A What do you mean by pay? 18 Q Did you offer opinions? 19 A Yes. I testified -- I did testify as an 20 expert at that one, I did offer opinions. 21 Q And in a very broad brush, sir, tell me what 22 your opinions were with respect to this remediation. 23 First of all, did it have anything to do with PCBs? 133 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024173 1A That's correct. 2Q Did or did not? 3A Did not have anything to do with PCBs. 4Q Did you advise the federal court that a 5 clean up was necessary or was not necessary? 6A I advised the federal court that the clean 7 up was necessary. 8Q What was the chemical that you said should 9 be cleaned up? 10 A The chemical that I said should be cleaned 11 up was betaformalin which is a known human carcinogen. 12 And by known I mean that it has immunological data 13 that says that it causes bladder cancer in human 14 beings because of people that were exposed to it when 15 they worked for it. 16 Q Bladder cancer, is that what you said? 17 A Bladder cancer. 18 Q That was the first case you mentioned. Tell 19 me all the other ones, sir. 20 A The other case that I can recall where I 21 provided probably fact and expert testimony was in a 22 pipeline case that happened in Los Angeles, 23 California, and it was similar to -- it involved PCBs 134 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024174 1 and was Monsanto. 2Q You were testifying for Monsanto? 3A Yes. 4Q What period of time was this, sir? 5A Probably two or three or four years ago, 6 maybe even further than that. I would have to look at 7 my records. 8Q You were not working for Monsanto at the 9 time? 10 A No, I was not. 11 Q How much did they pay you, do yourecall, 12 for your testimony? 13 A Just the cost of getting there and being 14 there and getting back. 15 Q They didn't actually pay you over and above 16 any expenses you incurred? 17 A No, sir, they did not. 18 Q And your company did not receive any money? 19 A That's correct. 20 Q And PCBs were contaminating a natural gas 21 pipeline? 22 A PCBs were used as a hydraulic fluid in 23 compressors and the company had let the PCBs get into 135 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024175 1 the natural gas pipelines and it had traveled through 2 the pipelines and had caused contamination at the 3 various substations when people didn't handle it 4 properly. 5Q The company is what company? 6A It's one of the big pipelines. 7Q How did Monsanto get involved in that case? 8A I believe they were named as a co whatever, 9 because they manufactured the product. 10 Q What was your testimony in short concerning? 11 A To the development of the analytical 12 methodology, its application and the development of 13 the state-of-the-art of the analytical methodology. 14 Q Similar to what you are testifying here 15 today? 16 A Correct. 17 Q Do you know what the result of that lawsuit 18 was? 19 A I don't know the exact result, it's my 20 understanding that -- I don't remember. 21 Q Do you recall if Monsanto paid any money or 22 had to do anything as faras clean up in that lawsuit? 23 A I don't recall. That's not my concern. 136 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024176 Q Is that your concern in this case? A No . Q You don't care if Monsanto is ultimately forced to pay any money or forced to do a clean up? A Doesn't impact me one way or the other. Q any? What other cases have you testified to, if A Way back when I testified and I think it was -- and this was testimony in the Chicago U.S. Circuit Court back in the '70s I think it was. Q Where was that? A It was testimony that I gave in Stanford, Connecticut, at the company I worked for, the EPA brought in lawyers, the plaintiffs brought in lawyers and Monsanto sent a lawyer, this kind of thing, there was a court reporter and they took testimony that was to be presented at the U.S. Circuit Court in Chicago where the suit was occurring. It was the Outboard Marine in Waukegan, Illinois. Q You testified for Monsanto? A Yes. Q What did you testify in that case about? A To the same things that I testified earlier 137 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024177 1 to, the analytical methodology, state-of-the-art, its 2 development, what PCBs were from an analytical 3 viewpoint, those kind of things, how it all came 4 about. 5Q Did you get paid for your testimony in that 6 lawsuit? 7A No. And that one as a matter of fact they 8 came to me, so -- and in fact the company I was 9 working with at that time allowed them to use the 10 conference room and things of that sort, so there was 11 no reimbursement for any expenses because I didn't 12 have to go anywhere. 13 Q They came to me, you mean the plaintiff 14 subpoenaed you to testify? 15 A I mean everybody came to Stanford, 16 Connecticut, and met in the conference room in 17 Stanford, Connecticut, the EPA, Monsanto, Outboard 18 Marine representatives. 19 Q The reason you were called to testify was 20 Monsanto called you and said, hey, we need you to 21 testify? 22 A I don't remember whether Outboard Marine 23 subpoenaed me or Monsanto provided me, tall and short 138 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024178 1 of it was I testified and it is a matter of record. 2Q Any other cases you've testified in? 3A That's getting pretty close to it. 4Q Now, in each one of these cases how were you 5 made aware that Monsanto needed you to testify for 6 them? 7A I'm trying to remember. Usually I was 8 notified by Monsanto that they had to provide my name 9 to somebody who had requested names of the people who 10 were involved with PCBs and things of that sort and 11 that I might be communicated by them. They, as a 12 courtesy, let me know that somebody had asked for 13 information and they had provided it. 14 Q How were you first notified about testifying 15 in this case? 16 A Same way. 17 Q Who did that? 18 A I believe Mr. Cox was the individual. 19 Q Who was your first contact? 20 A I believe Mr. Cox was the individual who 21 contacted me. 22 Q It wasn't anyonefrom Monsanto? 23 A As I said, it was Mr. Cox. 139 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024179 1Q Not Buddy Cox? 2A Yes. 3Q What I'm saying is, somebody from Monsanto, 4 I mean within the organization? 5A No. 6Q Do you know how Mr. Cox got your name? 7A I don't know, no, I don't know how he 8 specifically got my name. I can probably guess but I 9 don't know. 10 Q Now, is this all the testimony that you've 11 ever provided whether it be by affidavit, deposition 12 or actually at trial? This is a deposition. 13 Affidavit is when you swear and you sign a document 14 that says you're an affiant and all that. 15 A The only other one that I can think of is 16 for the Pennsylvania Attorney General's Office and I 17 provided an opinion on some PCB analytical data, 18 laboratory data, that they provided me that I went 19 through to verify that the lab had done what they were 20 supposed to. That's the only one. 21 Q Have you ever been asked to give any 22 opinions about whether PCBs at a particular site 23 should be cleaned up? 140 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024180 1A No. 2Q But you have given opinions in the past 3 about whether chemicals other than PCBs should be 4 cleaned up? 5A Yes. 6Q How many times have youtestified onbehalf 7 of a plaintiff? 8A Define it for me so we make sure we're on 9 the same page. 10 Q A plaintiff by mydefinition ispeople like 11 my clients who sued Monsanto for putting PCBs into 12 their river system. 13 MR. LIGHTFOOT: It could be EPA or 14 Department of Justice. 15 MR. GRAMMAS: No, he asked me to define 16 it. 17 MR. LIGHTFOOT: Well, I'm 18 supplementing. 19 MR. GRAMMAS: Well, use my definition 20 not Mr. Lightfoot's. 21 MR. PECK: Let's use the real 22 definition, it would be the party who has the burden 23 of proof, burden of proving that something needs to be 141 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024181 1 done or somebody needs to pay money. 2Q What I want you to do, sir, is tell me how 3 many cases you have testified on behalf of plaintiffs 4 like my clients who have sued defendants like Monsanto 5 asking Monsanto to pay them for the damages they have 6 incurred by a result of PCBs or some chemical like 7 that being discharged in and around their company. 8 MR. PECK: Object to the form. 9Q That's what I want to know. 10 A I'm trying to -- I have worked for the 11 plaintiff as you're defining the plaintiff in a case 12 involving Toxaphene in a Georgia plant where the 13 plaintiff asked me to use my analytical capabilities 14 to review data that had been generated and to verify 15 that the information was correct. I cannot remember 16 whether I provided an expert report. I know I did not 17 provide a deposition. I think the situation may have 18 been settled before it got to that point. 19 I'm an analytical chemist. If somebody 20 wants to know whether or not analytical information is 21 generated using certain kinds of analytical techniques 22 has been done correctly in terms of the rules in 23 generating that information, I'm qualified to do that. 142 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024182 1 And I've been asked to do that. And very frankly, it 2 doesn't matter to me whether it's what you're defining 3 as a plaintiff or whether it's Monsanto. What matters 4 to me is my opinion on the information after I have 5 reviewed it. 6Q You have now added another case that you 7 just recalled about, this Georgia case. Are there any 8 other ones that you have testified in? 9A No. And the Georgia case I added I'm not 10 sure whether it met your original definition that you 11 asked in your question. 12 Q Because you didn't actually have to give 13 testimony, you were a consultant? 14 A That's correct. These folks were plaintiffs 15 as you mentioned them. 16 Q Fair enough. Are there any cases that you 17 have consulted on that you've never testified in that 18 you haven't already mentioned? 19 A I think you got them all. 20 MR. PECK: Dr. Tucker may include this 21 as one big litigation but he has consulted with us on 22 the Abernant case. 23 MR. GRAMMAS: On what case? 143 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024183 1 MR. PECK: He has consulted with us on 2 the Abernant v. Monsanto case which is -- I think he 3 thinks of that as one big consultation. 4 MR. GRAMMAS: Fair enough. 5Q In your report, in the executive summary 6 section of your curriculum vitae, second sentence 7 under the executive summary -- see where it says 8 executive summary, excuse me, experience summary? 9A Now I see where you're at. 10 Q I've been reading executive, it says 11 experience summary, second sentence starts with the 12 word "he", that is describing you, correct? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Says you are one of the original principal 15 industrial scientists and team leaders that confirmed 16 the widespread presence and sources of polychlorinated 17 biphenyl (PCBs) residues in our environment through 18 the development and application of analytical methods 19 for the absolute identification and analysis of PCB 20 residues in industrial products and environmental 21 samples. 22 Did I read that correctly? 23 A Yes. 144 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024184 1Q In other words, through your expertise you 2 are able to identify the sources of PCB contamination 3 in the environment? 4A Yes. 5Q And that would include, of course, Monsanto? 6A Yes. 7Q Monsanto is in youropinion asource of PCB 8 contamination in the environment? 9A Yes. 10 Q Including the PCBs that are found in the 11 Anniston area and in and around my plaintiffs 12 property? 13 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 14 question. No foundation. 15 A Yes. 16 Q Okay. Now, let's go downfarther under the 17 bullets here, same page, the third bullet, you say 18 that you have extensive direct technical knowledge and 19 scientific expertise in the following areas. Third 20 bullet says the environmental impact for PCBs. 21 Did I read that correctly? 22 A It says environmental impact expert and fact 23 witness for PCB, Dioxin, Furan, Hexachlorobenzene, 145 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024185 1 Toxaphene. 2Q Right. I'm just focusing on the PCBs to 3 shorten this process. 4A Right. You asked me if you read something 5 correctly and you abbreviated. 6Q Did what I read -- was what I read correct? 7 I'm not saying that it was inclusive. Are you in fact 8 -- first of all, did you write this? 9A Yes. 10 Q Are you in fact describing yourself as an 11 environmental expert and fact witness for PCBs? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Okay. And that would include remediation of 14 PCBs, that's how you're describing yourself here, 15 correct? 16 A In remediation litigation, if somebodyneeds 17 somebody to testify about the analytical methodology 18 for PCBs or to read some information and say how good 19 or how bad it is, I can do that, yes. 20 Q I thought you told me - 21 A It doesn't have anything to do that I am a 22 remediation expert. There are many aspects to 23 remediation. I don't know anybody that does it all. 146 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024186 1Q I understand that. And I don't expect you 2 to do it all. 3 What I'm trying to do is, is I want to know 4 what you are going to testify about and what you are 5 not going to testify about. That's all I'm trying to 6 do. 7A The remediation and the approaches used for 8 mediation, things of that sort, I probably won't 9 testify about. Because I'm not an expert in that. I 10 told you earlier, and I thought I did it fairly 11 clearly, that I'm an expert in analytical chemistry 12 and the analysis of environmental samples for all 13 sorts of different kinds of contaminants using the 14 analytical techniques that are used for that. 15 Q See, I thought - 16 A One of those techniques are for PCBs. 17 Q I thought you told me that, too, and then I 18 read down here where you're classifying yourself as 19 environmental impact expert for PCBs. 20 A Correct. 21 Q But you don't know what theenvironmental 22 impact of PCBs are because that's not your expertise? 23 A In determining the impact of something, it 147 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024187 1 takes a lot of different technical folks to do that. 2 And once people have evaluated how much of something 3 is some place and where it is and what gets exposed to 4 it, that's the analytical part. That analytical 5 information is then provided to toxicologists, fish 6 toxicologist, bird toxicologist, those kind of things, 7 and they use that information to make impact 8 decisions. So it's all part of the process. I don't 9 know anybody that does everything by themselves. 10 Q You're not in a position then to dispute or 11 disagree with any opinions that other witnesses have 12 offered regarding the toxicological affects of PCBs in 13 Snow Creek, Choccolocco Creek and Lake Logan Martin or 14 the need for remediation? 15 A From a technical viewpoint, that's not my 16 area of expertise; however, I can still agree or 17 disagree with it. I didn't understand your question 18 quite there. 19 Am I a toxicologist? No. Is that my area 20 of expertise and have I spent my life doing that? 21 No. Do I have an opinion on it? Sometimes. Is it 22 the correct opinion? Sometimes. 23 Q But you're not claiming expertise in it, is 148 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024188 what I'm saying? A No. And I thought I made that clear. Q You did. A Very clear. Q But I want to tie it down and make -A I'll make it clear again. I'm an analytical chemist and I'm part of a team that does environmental impacts and things of that sort or I can be. Q What I want to know and there is no secret I'll tell you what I'm doing, I want to know and I think I do know but I want it to come out of your mouth in case something changes and I can come up to the trial and say, look right here what you told me, that's all I'm doing, and Mr. Peck knows what I'm doing. You're not in a position in this lawsuit nor do you have the expertise to dispute the opinions of toxicologists or remediation experts who have opined that -- whatever they've opined, that the PCBs are toxic here and that PCBs should be removed here, true or false? A True, as long as the information that they've used is correct. If I see that the 149 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024189 information is incorrect, then I could probably point out that their opinion might be faulty. Q Great. Now let's talk about that. Have you reviewed the analytical steps that any expert in this case has taken? A No . Q that? Are you prepared to give testimony about 9A At this point in time, no. 10 Q Has anyone indicated that they are going to 11 ask you to do that? 12 A At this point in time, no. 13 MR. GRAMMAS: Let's go off the record a 14 second. 15 (Discussion held off the record.) 16 Q Are you aware of any opinions that you plan 17 to give in this lawsuit that for some reason or 18 another I have not covered today? 19 I'm sorry? 20 I don't think there are, there might be. 21 Am I aware of any opinions that I may be 22 asked to give that you haven't covered? 23 Q Right. 150 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024190 1 MR. PECK: He's asking have you 2 generally covered the scope of the area of testimony 3 you are planning to testify about. 4 MR. GRAMMAS: No, that's not what I'm 5 asking. 6 THE WITNESS: No. He's asking me if 7 there are any areas that I potentially could talk 8 about if I were asked to that he hasn't mentioned. 9 And I can't answer that question. 10 MR. PECK: I object to the form of the 11 question. 12 Q Why can't you answer that question? 13 A Because you haven't defined the question. 14 MR. PECK: He doesn't know what's going 15 to be asked of him. 16 A I can't predict the future, very frankly. 17 MR. PECK: I doubt you've asked a 18 single question I would ask, so, you know, his answers 19 are going to be in the area -- I'm not trying to hide 20 the ball here. His answers are going to be in the 21 area he's discussed. He may answer things differently 22 because you don't ask questions the way I do. And you 23 wouldn't expect -- I wouldn't be allowed to ask them 151 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024191 1 the way you do if I were on direct of this man. 2 MR. GRAMMAS: I understand that. 3 That's not what I'm trying to say. 4 What I want to know is are there any 5 opinions that you are prepared to give that you have 6 discussed with Mr. Peck that we have not talked about? 7A At this point in time, no. 8Q Okay. That's all I want to know. And that 9 may change, I understand that may change, but if it 10 does change - 11 A And I need to qualify that because it's 12 another one of those about absolute routines, in the 13 areas that we talked about, there may be things that 14 you don't consider in those areas that are in those 15 areas because I don't know that you are that 16 knowledgeable about the whole thing that analytical 17 chemistry could cover. 18 Q Let me tell you, what you've just said is 19 more true than anything you've said today. I promise 20 you that. 21 A Accurate would be the word I would choose. 22 Q Are you aware of any sites that Monsanto has 23 gone to and cleaned up PCBs off of the facility, off 152 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024192 1 their own facility, rivers, streams, things like that? 2A That Monsanto themselves have cleaned up or 3 that Monsanto has hired a contractor to clean up? 4Q Yes. 5A You know, I've never been involved in either 6 one of those. 7Q So sitting here today you're not aware of 8 any, that's not to say they don't exist, you're just 9 not aware of any? 10 A That's correct. 11 Q Why do you feel, sir, that your testimony is 12 relevant to -- tell me this, why do I need to know the 13 analytical equipment used to detect and measure trace 14 quantities of PCBs back in the '60s to know that PCBs 15 are there today? 16 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 17 question. 18 A Why do you needto know that? 19 Q Yes. Why is it important, what is relevant 20 about what you did back in the '60s at Monsanto in 21 developing technologies to test for PCBs in 22 determining whether they are there in the rivers and 23 the lake today? 153 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024193 1 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 2 question. 3A Because unless you were there, you don't 4 know how things developed. The knowledge that the 5 person on the street has today relative to the 6 environment is infinitely better than any of us, 7 including the people on the street, had in the late 8 '60s. So too often people look at the information 9 that's available today and the knowledge that's 10 available today and considered commonplace and they 11 don't understand that back in 1969 nobody knew any of 12 this . 13 Q Nobody knew any of what? When you say 14 "this", what are you talking about? 15 A Any of the way -- the things that we use as 16 products can get about in the environment and the 17 potential impact that they might have. 18 Q You're saying, I just want to make sure 19 we've got this right. You're saying that in 1969 20 Monsanto was totally unaware of the fact that its 21 facility in Anniston was causing PCBs to enter the 22 environment via Snow Creek and Choccolocco Creek? 23 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 154 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024194 question A No, I didn't say that. Q All right. And you didn't need any mass spectometry or gas spectrometry or any of these other things you developed for Monsanto to know that PCBs it was manufacturing were in fact escaping its facilities and getting into Snow Creek and Choccolocco Creek during the entire period of time they manufactured it? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. A I can't answer that question. Q Well, Monsanto knew it was there before you developed this technology, didn't they? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. A Monsanto knew what? Q PCBs were leaving its plant and getting into Snow Creek and Choccolocco Creek long before you developed your technology to test for these trace amounts of PCBs? MR. PECK: Object to the form of the question. A I don't know what they knew. 155 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024195 1Q You don't know that? 2A No. The point is that I'm quite certain 3 that at that point in time nobody really knew that 4 PCBs were in Choccolocco or Logan or Lake Michigan or 5 any of those kinds of things. They might have known 6 as you tried to point out that the possibility exists 7 they were in the drainage ditch attached to the plant 8 or in a settling basin that was used or something of 9 that sort. If that's your idea of the environment, 10 then, you know, just phrase your question that way and 11 I will be happy to answer it. 12 Q That's what I was talking about. That's 13 exactly what I was talking about. 14 A Phrase your question that way so I can 15 answer you. 16 Q Well, I said, don't you know that Monsanto 17 knew during the entire time it was manufacturing PCBs 18 that they were escaping the facility, they were 19 getting into this drainage ditch that you talked 20 about, into Snow Creek and into Choccolocco Creek and 21 wherever Choccolocco Creek was flowing they were going 22 there, too? 23 A No, they did not know that. 156 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024196 1Q They didn't? 2A No, they did not know that. 3Q Okay. Fair enough. And when is it, sir, 4 that they first became aware of that? 5A When they began to do the real analysis 6 using gas chromatography, electron capture and GC mass 7 spec, that's when everybody became really aware of the 8 fact that PCBs were really being distributed in the 9 environment through the normal use of the everyday 10 products that we manufactured. 11 Q And before that time then no one knew - 12 A That's correct. 13 Q Is that when you'retestifying? 14 A That's correct. 15 Q And certainly the folks that lived around 16 there didn't know it? 17 A That's correct. 18 Q Now, when did Monsanto, what time period was 19 this, 1970, 1971 or later? 20 A The time period that we've been talking 21 about, the earliest date that you mentioned is 1955, 22 and I'm not prepared to address that. As we discussed 23 I was sixteen years old at that time. 157 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024197 1 The earliest date that we talked about is 2 1968 or so when it first became available to the 3 scientific community that somebody was seeing 4 something in environmental samples that might be PCBs. 5Q What you're saying then is unless someone 6 actually has one of these types of equipment you're 7 talking about, a gas spectrometer or whatever they're 8 called, there's really no way for them to know that 9 PCBs are present? 10 A That's correct. 11 Q And that would be true even today? 12 A That's correct. 13 Q So you wouldn'texpect like the people 14 around Snow Creek, Choccolocco Creek and Lake Logan 15 Martin to know that PCBs were in that river unless 16 they owned a gas spectrometer or hired someone to do 17 it for them or was told by Monsanto? 18 MR. PECK: Object to the form of the 19 question. They could be told by anybody. 20 A Yeah. What I would say is is that people 21 could think they might be there but they wouldn't know 22 it until they've done the analysis properly and proven 23 it beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were truly 158 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024198 1 there. 2Q 3A Right. That's why we do that. 4Q Now, you said you have written reports that 5 biodegradation or PCBs biodegrade. Tell me about 6 that. How do they do that? 7A The way they do that is that, at least the 8 reports that we were involved in and the work we were 9 involved in, is that bacteria in sewage treatment 10 facilities are capable of oxidizing polychlorinated 11 biphenyl s to -- all the way to carbon dioxide and 12 mineral salts. 13 Q 14 A Do they biodegrade in a river or a lake? Yes. 15 Q 16 A How do they do that? Same way, bacteria. 17 Q But not in a sewage treatment facility? 18 A Oh, yeah, they do in a sewage treatment. 19 Q I'm saying there is no way they would get 20 into a sewage treatment facility in that state, is 21 there? 22 A PCBs? 23 Q Yes. 159 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024199 1A Sure. 2Q How? 3A Anybodyusing it whodidn't understand how 4 they were supposed to behandling the materials or who 5 thought it was okay to throw them in a sewage 6 discharge or around the sink might have thrown them in 7 there and they've gotten to a sewage treatment plant 8 that way. 9Q I understand that. What's I'm saying is, 10 the PCBs that are in Snow Creek, Choccolocco Creek and 11 Lake Logan Martin aren't going to go into a sewage 12 treatment facility, right? 13 A I don't know that to be a fact. I mean I 14 don't think anybody is going to run out and run Logan 15 Martin through a sewage treatment facility. Is that 16 what you're asking? 17 Q Right. 18 A If you had asked me if the bacteria that are 19 in Logan Martin are possibly the same kind that could 20 be in a sewage treatment facility, sure. 21 Q No. What I'm asking you, you told me two 22 ways of which you're aware PCBs biodegrade, through 23 bacteria and through sewage treatment facilities. 160 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024200 1A Bacteria are the degrading factor in a 2 sewage treatment facility. That is what does the work 3 in a sewage treatment facility. 4Q I understand. But they are in a lot 5 different concentration in a sewage treatment facility 6 than they are in the lake. 7A Okay. The -- 8Q Wait a minute, now. I've been nice and I've 9 been letting you finish. What I'm trying to do is get 10 a question out before you answer it. 11 A Good. 12 Q Okay. Sowork with me here. 13 A Yes, sir. 14 Q There are two ways you said bacteria and 15 sewage treatment facilities -- bacteria in a lake are 16 in a much different concentration than the bacteria in 17 the sewage treatment facility. Would you agree with 18 that? 19 A Yes. 20 Q And I understand that it may be the same 21 bacteria but I'm getting to a point here, the sewage 22 treatment route that you're talking about as a 23 potential way to biodegrade PCBs would not really come 161 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024201 1 into affect for the PCBs that are in Snow Creek, 2 Choccolocco Creek and Lake Logan Martin, correct? 3A Correct. 4Q So, therefore, the only way you would expect 5 them to biodegrade in that facility is through 6 whatever bacteria are in the environment naturally. 7A Correct. 8Q Would you expect the biodegradation period 9 to be longer in a natural river or stream versus a 10 sewage treatment plant? 11 A In some instances, yes. 12 Q All right. Now, tell me how long of a 13 period of time does it take for PCBs like we're 14 finding in Snow Creek, Choccolocco Creek and Lake 15 Logan Martin to biodegrade? 16 A Are you talking about monochlorobiphenyls, 17 dichlorobiphenyls, tetrachlorobiphenyls, which of the 18 isomers are you talking about? 19 Q All of them. All of the ones that were 20 manufactured by Monsanto at its Anniston facility. I 21 will limit it to that. 22 A Of course, some of these PCBs that are 23 manufactured by Monsanto may never see bacteria. 162 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024202 Q In other words, they may not ever biodegrade? A Well, you can't biodegrade unless you see something is going to biodegrade them. Q What I'm getting at is, you would expect the PCBs that we're finding there, some of them won't ever biodegrade, they'll stay in there forever? A They'll stay there a long time and there are half life estimates for them. And some of them are very long Q What are they? A You know, I don't know. Some of them -- for some of the lighter chlorinated materials, very quick For some of the more highly chlorinated materials, I think they are quite long. Q Tell me how long. A I don't know without looking. A long time. Q Give me an estimate. A hundred years, a thousand years, ten years, I want to know just - A I think if you're talking about -- okay. I think you're trying to simplify something that wouldn't -- it's not fair to let you simplify it that way for yourself so that you understand it. And that 163 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024203 1 is if you've got pure Aroclor laying somewhere, the 2 only portion that's really going to probably degrade 3 fairly rapidly is that which is petitioned into the 4 water which is very little and it's very slowly, to 5 where it can be then approached by the bacteria and 6 that kind of thing, so that which is in the water will 7 probably disappear quite quickly if the original 8 source is not there. 9 So the stuff just laying there is going to 10 be there a long time. It's like putting something in 11 a bottle and never exposing it to anything and ask how 12 long it's going to stay there, a long time. It 13 doesn't matter what you're talking about. 14 The PCBs that you're talking about have - 15 are long lived in the environment, just like DDT is 16 long lived in the environment. 17 Q The PCBs that are in Snow Creek, Choccolocco 18 Creek and Lake Logan Martin that I believe came from 19 Monsanto's facility, and I know you may or may not 20 dispute that, are long lived in the environment? 21 A Correct. 22 Q Now - 23 A A case in point, if I may, is Lake 164 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024204 1 Michigan. Early on Lake Michigan was discovered to 2 have high levels of PCBs and especially in the lower 3 third of Lake Michigan because that's where the 4 industrial places are that used PCBs and that kind of 5 thing, that's how they got there and they 6 bioaccumulate, as you pointed out, in the fish. 7 As the years have gone by, and believe me a 8 long number of years have gone by, the levels of PCBs 9 in the Lake Michigan fish have gone down, so -- and 10 that includes all PCBs, not just the lighter 11 chlorinated ones or the heavier chlorinated ones or 12 anything of the sort, they have all gone down. 13 That has to be attributed to biodegradation 14 or chemical or physical degradation in the materials. 15 That's just the way it is. 16 So they have a long life in the environment, 17 if that's your point, point well taken that some PCBs 18 have a long life in the environment. Some have a very 19 short life in the environment, in a matter of days as 20 a matter of fact. 21 Q Are you going to give any testimony that 22 would explain why PCB levels in this river system are 23 -- let me rephrase that. 165 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024205 Are you aware, sir, that a fish advisory posted on this river system has become more widespread as the years go by since 1993? A On that specific river system that they've become more widespread? No, I can't verify that. Q Are you going to give any testimony or offer any opinions about why that may be? A I have not been asked to, no. Q Now, how do the PCBs leave the sediment, if you know, and get into the fish? First of all, they necessarily must travel through the water to do that; would you agree with that? A No . Q How do they do that then? A I'm sure the fish ingest sediment. MR. PECK: Pete, I mean I have to let you continue asking these questions but we're not offering him as an expert in the transport for the PCBs, we're not offering him as an expert in the way the fish, you know, take up PCBs and we have folks designated on that. MR. GRAMMAS: I understand that. But I'm reading in the -- 166 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024206 1 MR. PECK: And we're not going to -2 and I'll tell you that nobody is going to be asking 3 him those questions. 4 MR. GRAMMAS: That's fair enough. But, 5 Adam, I'm reading paragraph four of his report. 6 MR. PECK: If you want to -7 MR. GRAMMAS: It says the environmental 8 fate of chemicals. 9 MR. PECK: As I said, Pete, I was just 10 trying to shortcut it. If you want to ask him, I'm 11 not going to stop you. I'm just telling you we have 12 no intention, we haven't even given him any, I mean, 13 it would be unfair for us to ask him those questions 14 because we haven't given him any information about 15 what PCBs are today being found in your sampling or 16 our experts sample in those aquatic systems. 17 MR. GRAMMAS: I understand. But, see, 18 here is my problem. I -19 MR. PECK: And I think given everything 20 I just said, there ain't no way I'm going to ask those 21 questions. 22 MR. GRAMMAS: Oh, I understand that. 23 I'm not going to ask those questions, Adam, you could 167 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024207 1 have said that earlier. 2 I sent a deposition notice and asked 3 for him to bring everything he relied on and he didn't 4 bring anything. 5 MR. PECK: First of all, I asked Buddy 6 if you sent a deposition notice and he said he didn't 7 think so. So I can't agree with that statement. I've 8 not seen one. I'm not saying you didn't, but I asked 9 Buddy and he said he didn't think you did. 10 Secondly, he's told you that, you know, his 11 file on this, on the Dyer case is minuscule or 12 whatever he said about it. I'm not trying to hide the 13 ball here. I'm just trying to - 14 MR. GRAMMAS: I know you're not. 15 MR. PECK: I think we're almost done 16 and I would like to move to the done stage. 17 MR. GRAMMAS: We're almost done. And 18 this witness said he doesn't have any documents. Now 19 you said you didn't provide him any information, now 20 I'm concerned, did you provide him anything that I 21 haven't seen. And what we can do if you have, he has 22 got his file here, I can look at it and we're done. 23 MR. PECK: I think he has seen, in 168 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024208 1 all fairness, I think -- first of all, he's gotten 2 stuff - 3 MR. GRAMMAS: Could you just bring to 4 me what he's reviewed and I'll look at it and we're 5 done? 6 MR. PECK: What have you got? You've 7 got some of our experts reports, maybe John Rogers. 8 (Discussion held off the record.) 9Q All right. Do you recall looking at 10 anything particular that stands out in your mind in 11 preparing you for your testimony? 12 A The documents that you seem to be talking 13 about were not the documents that we reviewed 14 yesterday in any way, shape or form. 15 Q Who's got those documents that you reviewed 16 yesterday? 17 A I have a copy of those documents. 18 Q That's what I want to see. 19 MR. PECK: He doesn't have those. 20 A I don't have them with me. I wasn't asked 21 to bring them. 22 Q How could you review documents yesterday 23 that weren't here yesterday? 169 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024209 1A I didn't review them yesterday and I clearly 2 said that, so I don't know where you understood that. 3Q I misunderstood you obviously. 4A I reviewed documents yesterday but the 5 experts reports and things that you were talking about 6 were not those documents -- that was not the documents 7 I reviewed. 8Q Right. What I'm asking you is, I want to 9 see the documents that you reviewed yesterday and look 10 at them real quick and we're gone. 11 A I don't have those. 12 MR. PECK: I don't have them segregated 13 in that way and I don't think you're entitled to see 14 them. I don't have to show you what I showed to a 15 fact witness in preparing him for his deposition. 16 MR. GRAMMAS: Well, the problem you've 17 got here, an inherent problem is he's a fact witness 18 that's being paid for his testimony. 19 MR. PECK: We've been through that, 20 he's not, he's not charging a time as he sits here 21 right now. 22 The problem you seem to be 23 misunderstanding or intentionally refusing to 170 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024210 understand, I don't know which, is that he is a fact witness and that is what he's been testifying about here, that's what we prepared him on. He has analytical capabilities. For the most part, we're not employing him in this case. He's been designated as an expert out of an abundance of caution because he has specialized knowledge. MR. GRAMMAS: I'm done. (End of deposition.) 171 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024211 1 CERTIFICATE 2 3 STATE OF ALABAMA ) 4 JEFFERSON COUNTY ) 5 6 I hereby certify that the above and 7 foregoing deposition was taken down by me in 8 stenotype, and the questions and answers thereto were 9 reduced to computer print under my supervision, and 10 that the foregoing represents a true and correct 11 transcript of the deposition given by said witness 12 upon said hearing. 13 14 I further certify that I am neither of 15 counsel nor of kin to the parties to the action, nor 16 am I in anywise interested in the result of said 17 cause. 18 19 20 21 Jill B. Sanders, Commissioner 22 172 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024212 1 SIGNATURE OF WITNESS 2 3 I, , do hereby 4 certify that on this day of 5 1999, I have read the foregoing 6 transcript and to the best of my knowledge it 7 constitutes a true and accurate transcript of my 8 testimony taken by oral deposition on December 30, 9 1998 . 10 11 12 12 WITNESS 13 14 15 Subscribed and sworn to 16 before me this 17 day of , 18 1999. 19 20 21 22 22 NOTARY PUBLIC 173 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024213 1 ERRATA SHEET 2 PAGE LINE CORRECTION REASON 174 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024214 [& - affect] Transcript Word Index & & 4:5,14 6:7_______________ 1 1 5:11 82:3 10:00 2:23 6:9 110 5:12 12:20 44:22 171 5:4 172 5:5 173 5:6 1939 21:20 42:17 1955 42:12,16 43:6,19 44:2,4 157:21 1960 83:7 1960's 85:11 1963 20:5 22:1 1967 85:12 1968 85:12 88:15 158:2 1969 22:21 23:7,21 29:15 104:4 106:15 108:4 112:5 113:9 124:8 125:12 154:11,19 1970 40:14 157:19 1970s 39:16,19 40:2,9 1971 157:19 1985 17:12 1993 166:3 1998 2:22 6:7 173:9 1999 173:5,18 2 5:12 111:18,23 114:8 128:23 2:00 44:23 48:16 20th 2:21 4:8,16 6:8 28 21:20___________________ 3 30 6:4 173:8 30s 20:4 30th 2:22 6:6 3100 4:7 35203 4:9,17__________________ _____________ 4____________ 400 2:21 4:16 6:8 420 4:8_____________________ 5 5 5:3 5th 104:3 106:15 108:4 112:5 125:12__________________ 6 60s 29:11,1344:1950:5 62:15 76:13 83:18 93:2,3 94:7 95:22 153:14,20 154:8 61 83:8 68 44:19 69 44:19 88:15_____________ 7 70 44:19 70s 20:9,18 29:17 39:16,17 66:3 76:13 83:19 93:4 137:10 71 44:19 72 44:19 80 92:19 8 81 acted 5:11 130:3 131:7 8th acting 22:21_______ 6:3 124:3 90 92:18,19 93- 250 2:5 94- 50 2:6,11 99 92:13,17 99.8 92:18 99.99 57:12,13 9 a action 2:5,10 172:15 actions 87:19 88:2 97:20 98:6,11 98:12 103:2 116:19118:2 127:5 activities 38:14 101:1,4 actual 90:15 actulins 84:5 ad 93:5,8,13 103:4,8,15,16 104:2,7,11,12 105:1,7,21 a.m. 109:1 110:1,8 112:4 114:11 2:23 6:9 115:13 116:16 117:2,6,21 abbreviated 119:19 146:5 adam abernant 4:15 15:18,20 45:2,7,21 143:22 144:2 167:5,23 ability added 72:12 143:6,9 able additional 54:22 63:21 69:7 87:18 117:22 117:16 119:20 145:2 address absolute 157:22 61:21 144:19 152:12 adequacy absolutely 14:15 17:22 25:21 26:16,18 35:2 adequate 56:20 63:11 96:3 101:9 68:5 105:9 109:21 117:1 127:15 adhere 131:4 30:19,22 absorbed adhoc 31:1 105:3 abundance admit 171:6 30:14,19 49:16 68:19,22 accelerated 108:23 129:23 adopted accidents 60:1 11:21 adverse account 113:10 126:15 130:19 advice accumulation 49:23 83:20 advise accurate 103:8,14 134:4 63:20,21 64:2 152:21 173:7 advised accusing 49:17 103:4 134:6 106:12 advisory achieve 74:11 166:1 72:11 affect 67:23 68:1 162:1 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024215 [affiant - attempting] affiant amounts answers aroclors 140:14 19:23 29:4 71:19 74:3,6 14:13 118:8 151:18,20 21:18 105:23 affidavit 155:20 172:8 aromatics 131:21 140:11,13 anaclor anybody 60:18 afternoon 105:3 27:1 109:15 111:3 113:18 art 44:11 analysis 121:17 127:19 146:23 76:12 77:21 136:13 138:1 agencies 39:3,4 47:6 119:7 144:19 148:9 158:19 160:3,14 articles 15:10 122:23 127:17 147:12 157:5 158:22 anymore 32:13,18,21 67:22 agency analytical 36:20 72:13 73:13 107:21 asked 15:8 16:14 100:21 122:23 13:8 50:9 54:1 76:5 79:15 anywise 24:12 25:15 29:2 30:4 37:4 133:5 83:16 87:4,11 88:23 90:14 172:16 45:17 47:22,23 52:19 70:20 ago 97:3 132:11 136:11,13 apart 78:7,10,22 80:21 81:16 11:1878:1 135:5 138:1,2 140:17 142:13,19 47:17 86:5 89:4 97:17 113:20,22 agree 142:20,21 144:18 146:17 apologize 122:17 133:6 139:12 14:19 18:11,1332:23 35:18 147:11,14 148:4,4 149:6 69:2 78:12 140:21 141:15 142:13 35:19 37:10,15,17,20,23 150:4 152:16 153:13 171:4 apparently 143:1,11 146:4 150:22 38:3 52:9 53:19,21 58:16 analyze 120:3 151:8,15,17 160:18 166:8 58:17,18 60:9 77:3,5 83:8 75:1 110:16 apples 168:2,5,8 169:20 88:1 95:1,2 118:21 128:15 analyzed 114:6 asking 128:17,19 148:16 161:17 29:21 95:2 110:16 111:2 application 26:8,11 46:23 47:3 70:7,10 166:12 168:7 114:15 21:22 27:2 120:14 136:12 72:22 73:21 76:15,17 89:9 agreed analyzing 144:18 98:9 116:12,14,15 117:5 2:15 3:1,8 83:11 115:14 62:9 96:11 applications 118:17,20 122:12 126:4 116:22 117:2,3 angeles 122:8 127:22 130:11 142:5 151:1 agreement 134:22 applied 151:5,6 160:16,21 166:17 116:15,17 117:6 119:16 angle 21:18 23:21 40:6 167:2 170:8 agricultural 116:9 approached aspects 21:17 101:9 angles 164:5 18:12 48:6 146:22 ahead 103:18 approaches assembled 61:1681:23 animal 147:7 103:17 ain't 66:17 76:1,1 appropriate assign 167:20 animals 10:21 12:1 14:2 3:12 air 37:21 64:23 66:9,15 67:17 appropriately assignment 132:10 109:4 19:4 52:23 al anniston approved associated 2:9,12 26:11,15 30:11 38:7 56:9 83:4 17:14,16 107:15 alabama 91:13 114:12,20 126:12,17 approximately assume 2:1,22 4:9,17 6:2,3,4,8 129:4 145:11 154:21 2:23 6:9 9:7 47:16 8:23 91:13 172:3 162:20 april assumption aldrin announced 22:21 77:2 96:12 84:17 aquatic assurance alleviated answer 64:19,20 65:4,8,9,11,17 9:13 115:16 125:18 15:1820:1424:1325:13 66:9 68:3 70:3 108:6 109:3 assure allow 27:16 36:12,13 46:23 49:15 113:11 167:16 21:7 40:17 42:5 54:19 60:5 49:22 50:1 55:16 61:15 area atlanta allowed 69:5 70:16 73:1 76:14 80:9 10:1 11:23 12:2,5,5 13:9,19 9:9 16:1638:10,1740:1260:12 80:22 107:5 118:21,22 14:9 17:23 21:5 26:9 atmosphere 65:16 114:13 119:7 138:9 126:18 129:8 130:12,22 112:14 145:11 148:16,19 10:19 151:23 131:6,7 151:9,12,21 155:11 151:2,19,21 attached allowing 156:11,15 161:10 areas 156:7 130:15 answered 28:17 29:23 39:3 87:10 attempt allows 20:13 37:5,7 73:9 80:22 101:7 145:19 151:7 152:13 41:3 116:6 31:13 122:17,19 125:23 127:23 152:14,15 attempted amount answering aroclor 98:20 12:2 16:23 24:8 92:21 45:17,18 55:10,13 80:7 104:2,14,15,18,19 105:11 attempting 120:9 130:10 105:15 112:4 164:1 40:23 41:1,2 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024216 [attitude - business] attitude bases billion (cont.) bought 41:18 125:7 80:17 57:16 attorney basically bind boundaries 49:14,21 140:16 9:15 19:8 21:1044:1798:1 47:2 39:7 attributed 110:12,17 bioaccumulate boy 51:18 165:13 basin 35:19 165:6 85:2 available 115:5 156:8 bioaccumulation brain 15:13 34:16 42:8 60:3 basis 35:22 65:12 116:9 125:10 61:10,18 84:3,12 86:7 89:7 120:11 121:3 biodegradability brand 89:21 94:5 98:4 108:20 bates 33:16 35:9 67:23 53:5 113:15 116:8,19 121:12 22:22 103:22 biodegradable break 125:14 129:23 130:20,21 bay 32:10,15 33:3,5,8,10,18,19 24:23 131:8,9 154:9,10 158:2 112:16 33:20,22 34:4,14,18 35:3,7 breaks average began 35:8,11 25:3 18:20 78:2 86:8,22,23 88:12,21 biodegradation breast avian 98:23 112:21 122:20 159:5 162:8 165:13 121:16 64:15,17,22 65:10,17 68:3 129:13 157:5 biodegrade brief aware beginning 159:5,13 160:22 161:23 81:22 10:12 20:2,8 42:3 62:20 119:14 162:5,15 163:2,3,4,7 briefly 63:17 66:11 70:18 84:3 behalf biodegraded 73:8 92:5 94:14,17 95:22 96:7 133:2,4 141:6 142:3 33:23 bring 96:18 97:23 102:23 104:12 behave biphenols 8:10 103:21 168:3,4 169:3 105:17,21 106:2 113:2 31:11 50:19,21 51:2 85:20,22 169:21 116:2,15 117:6,12,12,13 behaved 96:14 99:12 brings 118:5 120:4 121:14 122:2 90:13 biphenyl 73:7 123:5,11 124:17 128:3 beings 144:17 britain 129:20 139:5 150:16,21 34:2,8 43:20 64:5,9,10 65:2 biphenyls 112:13 152:22 153:7,9 157:4,7 65:5,7 109:15 134:14 50:21 51:2 85:22 159:11 broad 160:22 166:1 believe bird 133:21 b back 12:4 21:9,23 23:7 40:20 43:1 73:9 76:12 90:17 114:8 127:2 135:14 137:8 137:10 153:14,20 154:11 harkprl 62:20 background 29:3 109:23 110:4 112:9 bacteria 159:9,16 160:18,23 161:1 161:14,15,16,21 162:6,23 1645 bacterial 6512 brtd 64:4,4,9,10,14 71:22 74:7 87:22 146:19 ball 151:20 168:13 band 85:2 based 22:11 27:20 29:2,18 35:16 89:11 98:6 110:10 116:18 128:8 131:8 132:9 11:6 21:14,1623:1725:21 148:6 43:7 80:22 85:11,12 91:8 birds 128:23 136:8 139:18,20 64:19 66:9,15 67:17 109:3 164:18 165:7 110:9,15,19,22 112:11 bending 113:12 28:13 birmingham best 2:22 4:9,17 6:2,8 16:22,22 30:2 50:14 70:21 black 72:12 75:9 76:6 89:16 33:16 173:6 bladder betaformalin 134:13,16,17 134:11 blame better 83:13 15:18 31:17 62:22 68:19,20 body 69:8 70:1871:17,1791:1 34:10 36:2 122:5 154:6 boggling beyond 52:8 158:23 bond bid 31:14,16 16:19,21 born big 42:17 102:9 114:4 136:6 143:21 bottle 144:3 21:7,8 164:11 bill bottom 93:14,20 21:1222:11 31:10,15,19 billion 55:4,18 52:5,8 62:11 73:23 80:15 broadcast 51:12,13 122:8 brought 45:6 137:14,14 brush 133:21 buddy 45:4 140:1 168:5,9 buildings 107:16 bulk 21:4 22:6 bulked 10:21 bullet 145:17,20 bullets 145:17 burden 141:22,23 burn 12:13 107:16 burr 4:5 business 48:17 57:14 116:7 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024217 [California - committee] c case (cont.) checked classified California 137:22 139:15 142:11 84:4 69:19 134:23 143:6,7,9,22,23 144:2 chemical classifying called 149:12 150:5 164:23 18:14 19:7 24:22,23 43:9 147:18 8:14,16,17 11:2 60:14 168:11 171:5 73:22 77:13 89:11 96:16 clean 120:3 132:10,10 138:19,20 cases 134:8,10 142:6 165:14 9:22,23 69:1 120:12 134:5 158:8 112:23 113:1 131:15,17,20 chemicals 134:6 136:22 137:4 153:3 calling 131:23 132:23 137:6 139:2 43:10,13 101:7 141:3 167:8 cleaned 33:16 139:4 142:3 143:16 chemist 18:4 134:9,10 140:23 141:4 calls cause 13:8 79:15 89:8 142:19 152:23 153:2 49:14,21 6:10 37:21 70:8 172:17 149:7 cleaning cancer caused chemistry 128:1 37:21 134:13,16,17 136:2 50:8,9 89:7 147:11 152:17 cleanse capabilities causes chemists 36:3 39:19,22,23 142:13 171:4 134:13 97:3 clear capability causing Chicago 73:18 104:14 120:3 149:2,4 75:9 121:7 154:21 137:9,17 149:6 capable caution chicken clearly 72:20 75:21 159:10 22:7 45:16 171:6 65:20 108:21 147:11 170:1 capacitor central chloride client 11:10,15 100:18 42:21 19:1 49:14,21 57:13 123:23 capacitors certain chlorinated 124:1 121:23 18:12 19:5 37:21 64:12 60:1896:12 112:17 163:13 clients capture 69:20 70:18 71:4 75:23 163:14 165:11,11 16:3 123:11,13 141:11 60:15,17,17,20 63:4 72:15 77:11 113:8 142:21 156:2 choccolocco 142:4 75:21 84:15 90:7 157:6 certainly 14:17 15:4 26:2,14 27:12 close captures 14:20 15:8,10 29:10 37:2 28:3 29:20 38:11 39:1,5 20:23 30:15 58:2,6 91:3 61:2 43:3 103:12 120:12 157:15 53:9 56:13 58:14 126:12 107:18 139:3 capturing certificate 128:11 130:16 148:13 closely 61:5,7 5:4,5 154:22 155:7,18 156:4,20 30:15 car certify 156:21 158:14 160:10 closer 6:3 172:6,14 173:4 162:2,14 164:17 89:20 91:1 11:21 carbon chain choose closing 12:15,16 79:7,19 159:11 90:3 152:21 48:17 carcinogen change chose college 37:16 38:1,4 134:11 35:14 152:9,9,10 38:1881:19 19:15 care changed chromatography column 79:22 137:3 90:17 90:8 157:6 31:10 career changes circuit comfortable 17:6,9 71:5,10 82:17 83:1 149:12 2:1 132:7,8 137:9,17 86:18 90:13 careful characteristic circumstances coming 45:19 122:6 31:13 19:6 68:20,23 69:8,10,20 58:22 74:21 84:7 95:7 carefully characteristics citizen 101:21 112:13 120:9 83:3 85:6 98:5 81:1499:1 107:11 109:14 commencing Carolina characterize city 2:23 6:9 7:4 9:4,5,8 11:1,7 90:9 118:14 2:2 9:4 comments carry characterized civil 13:14 53:3 90:10 2:5,10 6:5 commissioner carrying charge claiming 2:19 6:3 172:21 36:10 48:2 148:23 committee case charged clair 93:5,8,14 103:5,8,15,16 7:6,10,18,19,23 8:2 13:16 60:4 64:1 89:13 97:19 2:1 129:4 104:3,7,12 105:1,4,7,22 15:22 33:4,17 47:7,21 48:7 charging clarify 109:1 110:2,8,10 112:5 67:19,20 79:14 80:8 100:1 170:20 17:21 103:14 131:6 114:11 115:13 116:16 121:18 131:10 132:2 charlotte classical 117:3,6,21 119:7,20 134:18,20,22 136:7 137:1 2:4 31:5 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024218 [committee's - cost] committee's compound Connecticut contractor 104:13 60:19 137:13 138:16,17 153:3 common compounds connection contractors 69:13 33:1950:1851:11 87:2 124:5 commonplace compressors consequences contributing 154:10 135:23 106:17 107:15 30:17 communicate computer consider contributor 127:16 172:9 19:10 133:14 152:14 40:21 communicated concentrate considered contributors 139:11 75:5 19:4 25:17 116:10 154:10 39:10 communication concentration consolidated control 49:14,21 50:15 13:22 22:9 161:5,16 2:5 9:13 communications concern constituents conversations 47:1 113:3 41:1543:1251:7,12 107:4 60:20 86:14 community 129:14 136:23 137:1 constitutes conversely 83:18 86:12 158:3 concerned 173:7 31:18 companies 7:1341:10,1343:10,17 consultant convinced 9:19 18:5 73:20 96:16 52:21 96:22 100:22 101:3 143:13 30:17 113:16 101:11,18,21 102:5,6 103:1 consultation cooperation company 107:11 123:6 168:20 144:3 113:4 2:7 8:13,15,16 9:17,22 16:7 concerning consulted copy 16:8,15,18 43:9 47:2 57:14 18:10 136:10 143:17,21 144:1 82:6 111:7,7,9,13 169:17 96:21 107:10 109:11 128:9 concerns contact corporate 131:18 133:13 135:18,23 77:23 102:12 121:15 139:19 109:13 136:5,5 137:13 138:8 142:7 124:13,19 contacted corporation compared conclusion 139:21 2:7,12 106:2 119:22 33:2 48:8 55:7,17,20 contained correct comparison conclusions 82:10 114:14 6:19 9:1,17,21,23 16:12 119:20 37:18 114:19,22 containing 17:8 18:8 19:11,17,20 20:1 comparisons concur 65:19 20:19 22:6,13 29:5,23 120:20 130:23 contaminant 31:11 34:13 35:20 38:6,8,9 compensate condensed 17:17 39:17,21 40:2,4 45:5 48:11 47:20 10:20 contaminants 48:12 49:8 52:6,11 56:10 compensated conditions 10:6,7 13:23 147:13 57:6 62:18 63:20,21 65:13 47:15 35:12 37:12 contaminated 67:14 71:19,20 73:14,16 compensation conduct 10:10 11:18 12:231:22 74:5 78:16 79:4 82:19 7:15 48:9 16:16 contaminating 83:12 84:5 95:20 104:4,5 competent conference 135:20 104:21 107:12 111:1 117:1 13:7 138:10,16 contamination 117:3 131:13 134:1 135:19 competitive confident 80:4,11 103:9 115:15 117:8 136:16 142:15 143:14 16:21 16:1 119:1,3 122:14 124:15,20 144:12 146:6,15 147:20 complain confidential 124:21 125:18 136:2 145:2 148:22 149:23 153:10 118:4,15 104:1 114:4 145:8 157:12,14,17 158:10,12 complaining confirm content 162:2,3,7 164:21 172:10 117:15 110:10 45:19 correction complaint confirmed context 5:6 174:2 118:14 115:9 144:15 35:17 47:11 54:18 57:9 correctly completed confused 107:7 118:15 126:2 127:4 19:1925:13,1883:21 93:13 9:2 50:8 97:6 130:8 110:23 115:19 116:23 complex congregate continue 119:4 142:22 144:22 68:12 90:2 67:4 13:21 87:7 166:17 145:21 146:5 compliance conjecture continued cosmopolitan 3:4 86:15 121:15 125:10 51:22 105:22,23 120:14 41:17 components connected continuously cost 99:21 62:1 51:21 84:6 135:13 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024219 [counsel - different] counsel curtailed 2:16 3:10,11 6:6 126:14,15 122:9 172:15 custody counter 90:4 62:1 customer countries 57:12,19,21 88:7,8 92:4 customers country 87:7 88:2,3 115:16 117:9 92:1 119:1,3,22 121:7,13,16 county 122:1,14,22 123:18,18 2:1 129:4 172:4 124:6,13 125:18 126:8 couple 127:9 128:2 48:22 78:13 106:9 customer's course 124:19 91:13 145:5 162:22 cut court 55:12 2:1 3:5 6:1 46:4 132:7,8 cv 134:4,6 137:10,16,17 2:5,6,11 courtesy 139:12 cove 2:9 cover 152:17 damages 142:5 damn 5819 d covered 150:18,22 151:2 covers 88:10 89:5 134:12 140:17 140:18 142:14 date 126:16 cox 6:4 8:4 17:12 46:13 47:16 95:23,23 157:21 158:1 45:3,4 139:18,20,23 140:1 140:6 credentials dated 8:20 22:21 104:3 112:5 day 113:22 creek 2:22 6:6 56:5,6 173:4,17 days 14:17,17 15:4,4 26:2,2,14 16519 26:14 27:12,12 28:1,4,16 ddt 29:19,20 38:11,11 39:1,1,4 51:10,14 59:22 61:3,8 53:9,9 56:13,13 58:14,14 96 11 164 15 126:11,12 128:10,11 130:16,16 148:13,13 ddts 6019 154:22,22 155:7,7,18,18 156:20,20,21 158:14,14 deal 92 1210 160:10,10 162:1,2,14,14 164:17,18 dealing 48:6 81:11 119:3 122:13 creeks 1259 13:4 critters 64:20 curious decades 25:1,1,19 37:11,13 54:15 december 2 22 67 173 8 52:20,21 decide current 9:10,12 12:16 13:11 14:2 68:15 decided currently 7:3 8:12,13,22 63 6 83 6 120 13 12T4 128:9 curriculum 144:6 decides 36:15 decision 88:7 107:13 116:2,4 124:1 decisions 87:6 89:4 108:1 109:16 148:8 defendant 4:12 defendants 2:8 142:4 defense 15:22 define 25:17 129:9 141:8,15 defined 19:3 151:13 defining 142:11 143:2 definition 35:8 141:10,19,22 143:10 degradation 65:12 165:14 degrade 164:2 degrading 161:1 degree 7:14 delaware 2:7 deliver 57:18,20 delivered 60:22 department 43:16 133:5 141:14 depending 13:22 depends 16:18 17:1 34:7 deponent's 5:5 depositing 36:3 deposition 2:7,17 3:2,3,13 7:22,23 111:23 131:21 140:11,12 142:17 168:2,6 170:15 171:10 172:7,11 173:8 depositions 3:6 104:1 describe 34:20 89:16 describing 144:12 146:10,14 design 72:23 designated 166:21 171:5 designed 59:9 64:22 66:14,15 69:15 69:23 70:4 72:17 79:1 designing 79:5 80:14 desorption 10:18,18 details 83:16,23 86:5 97:17 detect 153:13 detection 55:19 60:15 75:7 76:3,4,6 detector 60:23,23 61:1 63:5 detects 60:17 determine 40:13,17 64:9 66:14 81:8 108:1 determining 87:20 97:19 147:23 153:22 develop 40:1 42:9 50:3 58:20 64:8 79:18 122:20 developed 28:21 29:19 39:13,15 40:8 52:7,18 53:3 59:13,20 62:16,18,22 64:21 65:10,15 81:7 92:1,2 98:5 122:21 123:10 128:6 154:4 155:5 155:13,19 developing 28:19 64:2 71:16 77:8 87:4 126:9 153:21 development 105:23 136:11,12 138:2 144:18 devise 52:3 dewater 12:19 dichlorobiphenyls 162:17 dieldrin 96:11 dielectric 11:14,16 difference 50:22 51:3 different 18:17,18 35:14 95:9 96:14 103:18 147:13 148:1 161:5 161:16 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024220 [differently - employed] differently discovers documents (cont.) duly 151:21 16:15 44:2,7,14,18 47:22 49:19 6:14 difficult discovery 53:8 66:6 94:17 168:18 dyer 12:12 130:9 2:6 106:16 169:12,13,15,17,22 170:4,6 2:4 168:11________________ dilute discuss 170:6,9 e 75:17 33:10 dog eagle dinner discussed 65:21 78:5 96:8 48:20,22 49:2 dioxide 159:11 39:10 47:10 49:4 151:21 152:6 157:22 discussion doing 9:15,16 11:17 12:11 29:8 35:4 42:12 48:3 63:18,19 earl 2:8,18 6:9,13 7:2 earlier dioxin 145:23 dire 106:17 110:1,5 111:16 112:9 150:15 169:8 discussions 47:5 63:20 74:19 81:11,15 84:15 89:13 96:20 97:2,4,23 128:4 148:20 149:10,14,15 dollar 22:1 39:11 46:20 47:15 67:1,21 77:3 81:20,21 86:5 92:23 96:22 97:8,17 113:8 114:23 127:7 137:23 direct display 16:22 147:10 168:1 145:18 152:1 direction 130:7 disposal dollars 8:7 46:13 47:16,20 48:11 earliest 157:21 158:1 111:4 directly 10:22 110:2 disposed donated 133:13 early 20:9 29:17 39:16,17,18 10:16 93:8,12,22 94:2 director 93:20 94:1 69:13 dispute 55:22 56:3 148:10 149:17 doses 37:21 doubt 40:2 43:6 66:2,3 76:8 83:19 85:11 92:22 93:2,3 97:8,18 165:1 disagree 164:20 32:21 33:2,11 34:19 35:1 disputing 26:13,17 27:11,17 30:9 54:10,11 55:3 71:13,14 easily 77:13 99:20 101:16 104:23 37:1841:11 53:20 148:11 148:17 disagreeing 53:13 distance 95:3 151:17 158:23 dr 6:18 18:13 24:5 25:2 30:9 easy 14:7 edge 26:1 disappear distinction 132:20 39:12 46:20 47:15 48:9 71:1 78:11 103:4 111:21 80:19 editorial 164:7 disappearing 35:10 distinguish 74:3 132:17 distribute 116:14 143:20 draft 130:6 126:21 education 29:2 discern 54:1 98:14 distributed drafts 82:21 educational 121:12,23 discerning 79:13 44:16 99:23 157:8 distribution drainage 28:15 115:4 156:7,19 effect 3:4 discharge 23:2 40:18 draw effort 160:6 discharged 142:7 disturbed 21:9 ditch 48:9 55:7,17,20 drawing 47:9 57:19 107:23 129:17 efforts 15:3 discharges 28:15 115:5 156:7,19 17:10 115:17 117:7 125:20 division 128:10 2:2 21:17 101:9 106:2 discharging 109:12 dredge 70:14 dredging 70:8,9,11 eight 118:23 either 10:13 14:5 16:2 93:9 153:5 126:11 doctor drop elaborate disclose 45:19 discontinue 41:4 6:21 document 22:14,21,22 23:5,14 25:16 44:12 54:6 82:11 103:20 31:9 dropped 31:3 dry 100:17 electron 60:15,17 63:4 72:15 75:21 84:15 90:6 157:6 discovered 104:1,23 105:6,19 110:21 12:5 electrons 18:3 20:4 62:19 89:18 112:19 165:1 111:22 112:3 114:3 115:13 dsw014625 115:20 117:12 128:18,22 103:23 60:18,20 61:2,5,7 eleven discoveries 83:17 130:5 140:13 documents due 16:15 19:1941:8 employed discovering 86:8 23:17 28:10 33:9,9,11 dug 34:20 35:5 43:4,15,16,22 21:8 8:12,13,22 23:3 28:23 39:1241:8 52:17 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024221 [employee - fact] employee escape examined experts (cont.) 46:5 47:2 16:16 6:14 169:7 170:5 employees escaped example explain 43:18 57:5 36:1,15 65:20 74:9 75:12 88:13 99:3 100:6 106:20 employing escaping 87:6 110:7 120:2 165:22 171:5 56:12,20 58:12,13 63:10 excerpt explanation energy 114:12,20,23 120:16,17 130:4 100:8,9 12:20 121:1 129:21 155:6 156:18 excited explode engineering especially 127:13 107:16 15:15 87:13 92:22 98:17 165:2 exclude exported enigma esq 94:23 95:1 92:22 98:21 4:6,15 excreted exposed enter essence 65:22 67:4 34:1 43:12 65:18 134:14 16:17 38:10,15 154:21 35:15 excuse 148:3 entire establish 144:8 exposing 17:6,9 56:18 89:14 155:8 17:481:16 108:18 115:12 executive 164:11 156:17 established 144:5,7,8,10 exposure entitled 29:17 46:10 52:18 57:3 exhibit 43:17 102:12,13 108:5 45:22 46:4 82:11 104:2 62:21 103:13 108:12 5:11,12 22:18 82:1,3,6 130:15 170:13 114:22 120:23 124:22 103:21 111:9,18,22,23,23 expressed environment 125:1,4 114:8 128:23 27:19 18:21 31:17 37:11,13 39:20 estimate exist extensive 41:14,21,22 42:6 50:13 163:18 18:21 69:10 71:4 100:20,21 145:18 51:20 59:11 64:4 66:19 estimates 153:8 extent 67:12,13,16 83:20 86:9 163:9 existence 89:3 97:22,23 88:4 94:13,18,20,23 95:2 et 101:5,22 externally 95:10,11,16,19 98:10,16,23 2:9,12 exists 84:12 99:2,5,7,23 100:4,6,10 europe 114:15 156:6 extracted 101:2,4,8,18,23 106:8,13 86:8 exoprobenzene 60:22 75:6 106:19 107:3 108:6 109:3 evaluate 61:8 extremes 112:18 113:10,11 114:20 68:15 expect 115:17 119:18 124:7,15,20,21,23 evaluated 31:8,11,21 36:2,10 37:1 eyes 125:2,6 129:4 144:17 145:3 148:2 69:21 70:2,7 147:1 151:23 63:2 145:8 154:6,16,22 156:9 157:9 162:6 164:15,16,20 165:16,18,19 environmental 13:10 15:841:1881:5 90:11 95:3 96:10 100:21 108:22 115:15 117:8 119:1 119:3 121:14,15 122:14 125:17 127:11 133:4 144:20 145:20,22 146:11 147:12,19,21 149:7 158:4 167:7 epa 16:14 100:20 101:4,12,19 eventual 100:8,9 eventually 78:16 94:10 121:14 everybody 113:5 122:2 123:4,5,6 127:17 138:15 157:7 everyday 157:9 evidence 3:14 evident 41:5,6 evolutionary 158:13 162:4,8 163:5 expenses 7:20 47:17 135:16 138:11 expensive 115:17 experience 10:14 18:3 128:8 144:8,11 experiments 35:17 expert 7:5,7,9 8:9 13:18 15:17,21 16:2 45:22 47:20 82:11 131:15,18 132:3,15,21 133:20 134:21 142:16 f farilitipc 50:16 91:5,9 155:6 159:10 160:23 161:15 facility 26:3,15,21 56:9,12 57:5 103:10 114:13,21 115:6,8 13015 15223 1531 154:21 156:18 159:17,20 16012 15 20 16T2 3 5 17 162:5,20 164:19 facing 119:22 101:21 133:6 137:13 138:17 141:13 equipment 77:15 153:13 158:6 erroneous 41:1961:19 error 96:18 85:23 145:22 146:11,22 147:9,11 exact 147:19 150:4 166:18,19 25:8 95:23 136:19 171:6 exactly expertise 32:1340:1354:11,1569:12 13:9,19 14:9 16:8 67:10 99:14 156:13 87:11,11 145:1,19 147:22 examination 148:16,20,23 149:17 5:3 6:11,17 experts 16:3,3 33:1 149:18 167:16 17 22 25 8 33-10 43-21 51:19 53:4 55:3,23 56:3 63:23 69:11 72:19 78:15 81:11 84:21 85:19 87:22 97:9 98:10,19 99:16 100:1 109:14 110:21 125:5 128:7 128:8 129:21 130:7 131:16 132:15,20 134:21 138:7,8 145:22 146:7,10,11 154:20 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024222 [fact - found] fact (cont.) federal firmly folks (cont.) 155:6 157:8 160:13 165:20 38:1 134:4,6 57:2 166:20 170:15,17 171:1 fee firms follow factor 7:21 8:1 15:15 49:23 101:20 161:1 feel first following factored 153:11 6:14 8:21 12:14 16:19 6:11 145:19 68:16,17 feeling 19:15,16,22 42:9 45:2,9 follows facts 25:12 59:23 62:2,19 66:13 78:4 6:15 7:7,13 25:8 felt 84:17 85:13,15 86:22 90:1 food factual 86:18 90:12 118:7 122:5 94:4 95:22 96:13 98:13 57:16 66:21 25:7 47:3 48:6 123:4 127:14 99:7 104:3 109:1 115:22 force fails field 118:4 120:13 121:4 124:22 3:4 126:15 33:1 126:19 129:9,13 130:6 forced fair fifth 133:23 134:18 139:14,19 137:4,4 12:2 18:1 30:7 68:13 79:21 17:14 146:8 157:4 158:2 166:10 foregoing 80:5 97:16 132:21 143:16 figure 168:5 169:1 6:5 172:7,10 173:5 144:4 157:3 163:22 167:4 52:2 59:2 71:17 113:5 fish forever fairly 125:14 127:20 34:2,7 66:15,17 74:11 34:9 36:7,8 163:7 147:10 164:3 figuring 108:6 109:4 110:9,14,18,22 forgot fairness 124:5 126:10 112:11 113:12 148:5 165:6 9:3 169:1 file 165:9 166:1,10,15,20 form fall 168:11,22 five 3:10 17:9 18:4,6 20:11 22:3 75:18 fill 17:15 24:2 26:4 27:14 30:12 32:1 false 11:15 flint 33:12 34:5,22 37:4 38:12 62:4 129:5 149:21 final 42:22 40:15 49:13 53:10,17 56:1 familiar 82:18,22 flippant 56:15,23 58:7,15 59:5 60:7 8:17 53:2 finally 71:15 62:5 67:18 68:7 70:5 74:8 far 15:7 52:18 85:3 floating 74:12,23 92:15 94:15,21 7:13 28:9,11 49:10 86:17 find 53:9 54:7 59:4 96:2 101:6 102:1 108:8 86:17 117:1 129:3 136:22 30:3 31:21 32:7 41:2 51:17 floor 109:6 117:10 119:8,23 farrar 58:13 59:19 63:22 66:15 95:14 122:16 125:21 128:13 93:23 94:1 71:1876:19 119:14 121:18 florida 129:6 142:8 145:13 151:10 farther finding 20:3 21:19 112:16 153:16 154:1,23 155:9,14 76:22 145:16 50:1856:1259:10,1560:11 flow 155:21 158:18 169:14 fashion 68:6 76:10 78:8,19,23 36:20 forman 17:9 18:4 118:9 131:8 81:18 87:14,14 88:3 97:5,9 flowing 4:5 faster 99:15 102:17,17 106:19 156:21 format 62:23 125:5 127:18 130:7 162:14 fluid 103:17 fat 163:6 11:15,16 95:14 100:19 former 36:3,5 findings 135:22 46:5 47:1 fate 41:16 78:16 97:18,21 fluids formulated 167:8 119:10 121:14 77:12 93:21 94:3 107:19 84:6 97:20 129:22 fatty fine focus forth 37:2 14:6 61:11 77:20 89:19 117:7,8 9:2 35:16 fault 111:3 focuses forty 27:7 73:18 78:13 fingerprints 67:11 20:23 21:9 faulty 99:9 focusing forward 150:2 finish 124:12,19 146:2 53:4 favor 23:9 46:8 55:10,15 161:9 folks forwarded 70:15 finished 8:10,18 13:11 18:1850:17 85:18 fda 47:12,1361:1567:6 51:10,17 55:3 59:1663:18 foul 123:3 fire 78:5 81:3,18 84:14,19 64:19 66:18 feathers 107:18 85:19 86:18 93:15 96:7 found 78:5 96:8 firm 99:9 110:17 112:12,18 22:2 26:1 30:1,3,5 41:22 feces 44:8 49:7 114:16 116:6 119:10 62:4,7 73:3,4,5 85:3 86:9 36:22 66:23 143:14 148:1 157:15 87:22 88:6,17 96:8,9,10,19 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024223 [found - he'll] found (cont.) generality go (cont.) guys 99:7,8 107:3 110:9,13,14 98:8 138:12 145:16 150:13 127:12,13________________ 110:21,22 145:10 167:15 generally 160:11 166:3 h foundation 151:2 goes hairs 27:15 34:6 145:14 four general's 140:16 31:1867:2 going 56:5 half 35:9,11 74:13 135:5 167:5 generate 12:13,1723:10,1225:14 163:9 franklin 2:21 4:14 6:7 frankly 98:23 generated 103:12 112:15 142:14,21 37:6 46:22 49:23 55:15 63:2,3,22 68:16 84:9 88:13 97:19 103:1,21 108:1 hand 18:23 24:16 74:2 handle 143:1 151:16 free 53:8 54:7 59:3 freely generating 142:23 gentleman 15:21 111:22 113:6 115:2,4,5,17 121:16 122:1,20 123:8 124:2 127:20 147:4,5 150:10 151:14,19,20 9:12 122:6,7,7 129:22 136:3 handled 87:16 98:16 gentlemen 156:21 160:11,14 163:4 handling french 91:20 77:18 georgia 164:2,9,12 165:21 166:6 167:1,2,11,20,23 160:4 hang fronts 127:6 142:12 143:7,9 germane good 35:16 64:14 77:22 87:13 111:6 happen full 3:4 6:23 7:2 functional 93:21 fund 40:22 80:2,3 germans 91:22 getting 12:20 43:11 74:4 100:10 89:5 90:3 92:20 123:14 146:18 161:11 gotten 11:23 30:16 160:7 169:1 government 13:12 108:5,14,15 happened 21:11 65:21,23 66:21 121:20 123:5 134:22 happens 118:1 furan 145:23 120:8 127:13 135:13,14 139:3 155:7,17 156:19 161:21 163:5 38:2 122:22 127:17 graduate 83:7 15:7 66:16 67:2 72:15 76:4 121:18 125:10 happy further give 3:1,8 18:9 23:10 62:22 81:8 13:14 14:8,11,13 15:2 grammas 4:6 5:3 6:17 15:20 45:21 156:11 hard 135:6 172:14 future 13:21 151:16_____________ 87:19 118:7,21 127:1 140:21 143:12 150:7,17,22 152:5 163:18 165:21 166:6 46:2,6,9,12,16,19 47:12,14 55:11,13 74:14 111:8,13 127:2 132:5 141:15,19 130:10 harm 70:8 g gainesville given 14:5 15:21 33:7 47:22 143:23 144:4 152:2 166:22 150:13 151:4 167:4,7,17,22 hazardous 69:11,14,15,18,19,22 70:2 20:3,18,21 21:19 gamut 52:23 114:4 118:22 141:2 167:12,14,19 172:11 168:14,17 169:3 170:16 171:8 heading 110:7 13:23 giving great heads gas 135:20 136:1 155:4 157:6 158:7,16 69:2 126:8 glad 111:14 12:10 112:13 150:3 greater 74:10 51:9 hear 86:22 127:10 gather 107:11 gc 157:6 glass 54:21,22 glob 74:1 greenville 9:8 gross 115:15 117:8 125:17 heard 130:23 hearing 41:7 172:12 gee global ground heat 62:1 gee 77:19 96:23 85:23 86:19,23 102:16 106:19 96:20 41:1789:19 globe 87:22 88:6 89:14 globules 12:4 grounds 3:1249:13 group 107:18 heated 10:19 heavier 112:22,23 121:18 122:5 53:8 54:7,16 59:3 77:4 93:21 94:2 132:10 31:6,9 165:11 123:7 125:2,10,15 126:1 127:12 go groups 12:11 19:2 23:11,1224:11 94:3 99:11 116:7 heck 113:6 general 18:11 41:14 101:14 110:13 31:19 34:15 36:20,21 61:16 guess 65:22 66:21 67:1 69:11 6:18 9:11 52:2 64:23 140:8 held 111:16 150:15 169:8 132:18 80:17 81:23 86:14 89:6,22 gunther 120:12 121:3 124:4,5 84:16 he'll 14:12 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024224 [help - invented] help humans impregnate ingest 74:21 99:6 117:16,22 108:6 109:4 11:16 66:20 166:15 hexachlorobenzene hundred impregnation ingested 145:23 9:8 19:1 57:20,22 58:2,6 11:10 65:20 66:17 hexane 75:12 77:4,7 90:17 163:18 impression inherent 75:13 hurt 69:2 98:3 170:17 hey 109:15 improper initially 127:20 138:20 hydraulic 45:18 72:18 91:3 hide 77:12 95:14 100:19 107:17 incentive input 151:19 168:12 135:22 57:21 87:6 high hydrocarbons incinerator inspect 42:19,22 73:3,4 75:11 112:17 10:22 28:20 165:2 hydrophobic include instance highest 31:1 35:23 14:10 65:2 127:5 143:20 97:13 90:21 145:5 146:13 instances highly idea includes 97:11 114:17 162:11 163:14 28:13 66:8 156:9 109:14 165:10 instruct highways identical including 46:22 49:15,21 120:5,7 22:3 99:9 84:19 127:16 145:10 154:7 instructing hire identification inclusive 49:12 50:3 124:4 61:22 82:4 111:19 144:19 146:7 instrument hired identified incorrect 75:4,5,9,15,15,19 9:19 16:3,3,13 49:5 50:6,7 99:11 103:23 79:20 150:1 intact 50:12 63:9 153:3 158:16 identify incurred 37:9 historical 59:22 145:2 47:17 135:16 142:6 intend 44:14 iii indicate 87:19 100:13 hoc 2:8,186:10,137:2 82:12 42:10 108:21 intended 93:5,8,13 103:4,8,15,16 104:3,7,12,12 105:1,7,22 illinois 91:10 137:19 indicated 50:17 59:16 150:10 24:10 72:19 intention 109:1 110:1,8 112:4 114:11 image indifferent 57:10,12,17,18 98:14 115:13 116:16 117:2,6,21 119:19 106:1 107:4,9 109:11 immunological 129:16 individual 167:12 intentionally hold 69:15,23 70:4 hole 134:12 impact 41:18 43:10 66:8,14 67:5 36:15 99:1,11 139:18,20 individuals 15:12 16:7 93:13 103:16 51:11,13,15,22 58:1388:16 98:19 99:22 101:8 170:23 interacted 21:8,8 96:23 101:1,3,18,22 106:12 industrial 65:16 99:2 home 108:22 113:11 125:3 137:5 144:15,20 165:4 interest 89:20 hope 145:20,22 147:19,22,23 148:7 154:17 industry 17:6,13 116:6 interested 42:20 impacts infinitely 84:20 122:23 123:7 172:16 horrible 130:1 149:8 154:6 interesting 11:5 impair information 73:7 horses 49:3 109:17 implemented 13:11 25:7 35:15 45:20 internally 47:4 84:3,4,7,11,13 85:5 84:12 hotel 64:22 86:4,6,10,13 87:12 89:3 international 7:20 hour implied 127:7 93:7,21 94:5,11 98:3,6,8 8:14 83:18 103:12,17 107:12 108:12 interpreting 35:10 hours 35:11 48:14,17 implying 129:12 importance 108:18,20 110:4 112:10,13 13:10 112:15 113:23 114:3,12,14 interrupt 116:8,19 119:6 123:3,18 67:8,9 hover 111:11 98:4 important 125:11,14 126:7,8 127:8,16 introduced 129:23 130:20,21 132:11 45:6 human 34:2,8 36:2,10 37:3,16 38:1 33:15 153:19 impossible 43:20 64:5,9,10 65:2,5,7 129:8 139:13 142:15,20,23 143:4 invent 146:18 148:5,7 149:22 63:4 150:1 154:8 167:14 168:19 invented 109:14 134:11,13 63:5 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024225 [involved - life] involved kind knowledge laws 10:1,16,17 13:4 53:15 88:1 13:18 15:1621:1025:20 69:5 99:1 102:3,7 121:11 3:5 97:22 101:19 134:23 136:7 28:16 35:14 43:11 44:17 123:13 125:7 129:15 130:8 lawsuit 139:10 153:5 159:8,9 51:9,9,16,1953:461:17 130:19,20 131:8 145:18 48:10 80:2,3 136:17,22 involvement 64:13 67:4 71:8 85:22 154:4,9 171:7 173:6 138:6 149:16 150:17 87:3 86:15,16,21 87:15 88:18,19 knowledgeable lawyer involves 96:21 100:22,23 102:18 16:20 152:16 137:15 10:4 116:9 118:11 127:7 129:9 known lawyers involving 132:14 137:15 138:3 148:6 23:20 37:21 112:10 134:11 23:16 44:8 48:5,18,21,22 142:12 160:19 164:6 165:4 134:12 156:5 49:5 82:15 83:10 137:14,14 iowa kinds knows laying 50:9 43:13 68:1 72:16 75:23 149:14 164:1,9 isomers 77:12,14,23 79:19 86:1 krummrich leaders 33:6 99:11 162:18 93:15 102:8 103:18 107:19 91:10,12_________________ 144:15 issue 33:5 100:5 102:9 issues 17:20 item 25:9 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ J_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ japanese 91:21 105:4 jefferson 172:4 jensen 78:4 84:16 89:18 106:16 ji 2:19 6:1 127:2 172:21 job 19:16 62:23,23 117:17 john 93:18,18 169:7 join 85:12 jump 26:6 jumped 85:2 june 21:19 jury 17:5 18:1 justice 133:5 141:14__________ k keep 34:10 57:8 76:21 80:18 126:1 keeping 127:18 kept 121:16 kin 172:15 118:6 142:21 147:13 156:5 I leading kingdom 50:1585:1891:19 lab 117:16 140:19 3:11 leakage knew 20:16 22:11 43:5,19 53:6 label 53:23 41:3 leaks 53:14 54:15 58:11,18 59:3 61:19 62:3 76:8 78:9 89:21 90:4,13 94:12,19 95:9,15 labeled 29:22 labels 100:18,18,19 leap 120:18 100:19 102:5,11 107:21 108:15 120:15,16 123:23 54:23 laboratory learn 99:4 154:11,13 155:12,16,23 156:3,17 157:11 know 140:18 lake 14:17 15:4 26:2,14 27:12 learned 10:14 50:20 67:15 87:8,8 87:21 88:5 98:9 100:4 8:5 14:17,22,23 15:1,9,20 18:15 19:12 20:20 21:3,4 28:6,9,11 31:15 38:11 39:1 40:2,10,14,20 41:10 112:15 leave 48:19 68:4,19,21 69:9 23:10 26:22 27:10,20 28:12 28:12 32:12 36:8 37:6 42:23 43:21 45:22 46:4 130:16 148:13 153:23 156:4 158:14 159:13 160:11 161:6,15 162:2,14 130:15 166:9 leaving 70:19 79:22 115:6,7 155:17 53:12 56:11,19 57:5,7 59:15 61:7 71:2,22,22 72:9 164:18,23 165:1,3,9 lakes led 25:16 73:12,23 74:6,9 75:2,2,15 76:12,17,18,20 80:20 84:22 13:5 land left 48:20 69:12 70:3 71:3 85:2 86:10,21 87:1 90:11 16:16 leftover 91:20 92:5,8 95:7,14 98:18 100:2,3,7 103:17 105:6 108:4,9 109:8,23 112:20 landfill 69:14,22 landfills 122:6 letting 131:2,4 161:9 113:10 115:11 117:21 119:19 122:1,4 123:16,19 123:23 125:8 126:7 127:12 127:18,19 128:8,15,16 69:11 large 2:20 6:3 10:5 larger level 52:13,14 59:17 60:5 72:5 73:12 74:1,20 76:20 80:20 127:10 129:11,12,12,15,17,20 39:8 levels 132:14,15,23 136:17,19 139:12 140:6,7,7,9 142:9 142:16,20 146:23 147:3,21 148:9 149:9,10,11 151:14 lasted 51:20 lasting 25:19 28:21 42:7 50:4,13 52:4,5 59:2,8,10,11,15,1760:11 62:4,8 63:9 72:4 73:1,2,3,4 73:4,5,22 75:11 76:19 78:3 151:18 152:4,8,15 153:5,12 late 80:15 81:13 86:9 88:11 153:14,18 154:4 155:5,23 156:1,10,16,23 157:2,16 20:4,5 29:13 44:19,23 50:5 62:15 83:18 85:11 93:3 89:2 102:18 165:2,8,22 liberty 158:8,15,21 160:13 163:12 163:12,17,19 164:19 94:7 95:22 154:7 law 7:4 9:5 life 166:10,20 168:10,14 170:2 49:7 171:1 108:6 109:3 113:11 148:20 163:9 165:16,18,19 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024226 [lighter - meeting] lighter 163:13 165:10 lightfoot 2:21 4:14 6:7 61:14 74:16 96:2 111:6,10,15 126:13 130:18 131:2 141:13,17 lightfoot's 141:20 limit 72:11 76:3,4,6 125:20 162:21 limiting 80:1 115:17 limits 75:23 line 21:12 22:11 47:9 58:22 96:15,15 107:14 109:17 174:2 linear 75:19 lines 91:11 lipid 34:8 36:14,17,19 37:8 67:1 list 23:2 116:5 listed 38:1,3 106:7 108:23 literature 24:21,22 25:2,3 32:21 34:19 litigation 143:21 146:16 little 41:1744:22 61:1875:3,13 115:16 164:4 live 7:4 36:10 37:3 lived 9:4 157:15 164:15,16,20 liver 34:16 67:2,3 lives 107:18 located 9:7 40:13 location 91:14 locations 90:23 logan 14:17 15:4 26:2,14 27:13 28:6,9,11 38:11 39:2 40:2 40:10,14,20 41:10 130:16 148:13 156:4 158:14 logan (cont.) major materials 160:11,14,19 162:2,15 88:15 43:14 55:17 60:21 61:22 164:18 making 64:13 65:20 69:16 77:3,19 long 22:17 87:7 89:4 107:10 90:21 99:8,15 100:10,11,16 34:3 35:1 36:4,5,14,17 37:8 109:20 121:13 121:19 160:4 163:13,14 45:12 48:13 53:15 56:5 mammalian 165:14 63:5 78:3 85:4 95:3 149:22 64:22 65:10,17 68:3 matrasses 155:18 162:12 163:8,10,15 mammals 13:10 163:16,17 164:10,12,12,15 65:5,7 matrices 164:16,20 165:8,16,18 man 42:7 longer 46:12 152:1 matrix 10:7 18:21 35:13 36:9 37:2 management 64:12 73:6 162:9 2:9 matter look manner 33:22 56:6 71:23 127:12 22:16 24:7 44:5,12 52:20 7:14 21:4 22:3,8 24:9,17 138:7 139:1 143:2 164:13 53:22 54:2 57:8 64:12 84:10 88:8 99:22 123:10 165:19,20 68:14 72:23 73:2 88:21 manufacture matters 96:21 99:8 102:19 103:3,22 57:17 77:15 95:4 115:1 143:3 112:6 114:8 115:3 116:8 129:14 130:14 mean 135:6 149:13 154:8 168:22 manufactured 11:20 18:16,1934:13,18 169:4 170:9 38:7 56:18 57:10 91:9,11 42:1345:1451:13,1452:4 looked 91:15,16,20,21,22,23 92:2 52:761:1965:1471:10,11 14:1 22:1 23:18 28:14,17 96:15 99:17,18 101:22 72:17 83:6 88:17 94:10 51:18 54:15,16 77:18 85:5 103:10 104:21 105:12,15 95:10,18 96:4 98:21 100:19 85:6 91:2,3 98:5 100:5 113:16 129:18 136:9 155:8 104:18 107:21 108:15 102:14 119:13 157:10 162:20,23 114:15 118:19 126:21 looking manufacturers 132:15 133:11,17 134:12 42:8 51:10 66:5 84:19 94:9 113:20 138:13,15 140:4 160:13 103:18 112:19 128:5,22 manufacturing 166:16 167:12 163:17 169:9 38:22 43:14 56:8 58:1,4 meanings looks 91:18 113:17 120:22 18:18 54:17 99:14 121:19 155:6 156:17 means los marine 10:18 18:20 31:8 34:14,18 134:22 137:19 138:18,22 35:21,22,23 64:20 65:9,15 lose marked 65:23 84:2 95:11 104:10,14 36:15 57:10 98:20 82:3 111:18 105:7 120:15 127:19 lost marketplace 129:11 58:3,5 129:18 meant lot marsh 84:2 132:11 26:20 39:10 60:19 61:5,6 21:13,15,16 measure 68:12 69:11 75:3 79:16,16 martin 19:23 52:17 58:21 60:1 84:14,20 85:1,5,6 86:14 14:18 15:5 26:2,14 27:13 61:1881:12 153:13 107:15,17,18 112:16 113:3 28:6,9,11 38:11 39:2 40:2 measured 113:4 119:14 120:23 127:9 40:10,14,21 41:10 94:1 79:15 148:1 161:4 130:17 148:13 158:15 measurements low 160:11,15,19 162:2,15 17:7 84:15 73:1,2,4,5 76:4,7 78:3 164:18 measuring 102:18 mass 13:9 75:22 112:17 lower 90:8 155:3 157:6 mediation 75:22 165:2 master 147:8 lowest 62:1 medical 72:11 material 6:21 43:15 m magner 21:15,15,16 11:23 12:19 19:1021:4 meet 24:13,14 57:11,20 69:18,19 45:1 48:13,18 70:3 75:6,12 77:18 113:19 meeting 113:21 120:4,6,23 129:21 104:3 109:2 112:5 125:13 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024227 [meeting - object] meeting (cont.) minuscule monsanto (cont.) needed 130:6 50:13 52:4 62:4,7 120:10 124:4,11,12,18 125:16 117:16,21 118:6,7 120:11 meetings 168:11 126:8,9 127:14,15,23 128:9 122:2 125:8 139:5 86:15 minute 129:2 130:12 131:7,11,18 needs members 28:8 45:21 55:8,11 61:14 135:1,2,8 136:7,21 137:3 19:3 107:11 121:4 141:23 115:13 126:13 132:6 161:8 137:15,20 138:17,20,23 142:1 146:16 memory minutes 139:5,8,22 140:3 141:11 negative 23:13 44:17 104:2 105:1,3,7 112:4 142:4,5 143:3 144:2 145:5 108:5 memos 125:13 145:7 152:22 153:2,3,20 neither 44:1 missed 154:20 155:5,12,16 156:16 172:14 mention 126:23 157:18 158:17 162:20,23 new 113:13 misunderstanding monsanto's 53:5 mentioned 170:23 30:11 41:15 83:17,23 86:6 newest 78:14 133:1 134:18 143:15 misunderstood 88:2 91:5 97:17 115:15 53:1 143:18 151:8 157:21 170:3 117:9 164:19 nice merely mixtures month 161:8 131:5 90:2 128:12 nitrogen met mobilized motor 10:19 23:15 45:2,3,9 48:14,17 34:9 36:5,14,16 31:1277:10,12 nonbiodegradable 49:7 138:16 143:10 molecular mouth 34:21 metabolic 51:3 89:12 149:12 nondetect 36:22 molecule move 73:11 metabolism 67:11,12,16 79:6,7 87:5 98:22 168:16 nonwater 68:2 99:2 102:18 moved 31:9 metabolize molecules 98:16 99:5 100:5 normal 34:17 67:3 19:5 66:16 75:23 museum 11:22 36:21 48:17 157:9 metabolized moment 96:9 north 65:22 66:5 myriad 2:21 4:8,16 6:8 9:9 method money 79:13 notary 32:7 50:4,12 72:10 73:6 109:19,22 135:18 136:21 n 2:20 6:2 173:22 75:7 76:3,3,6,9 methodology 40:6,8 52:15,16,17 58:21 59:20 72:5 73:2 79:12 81:17 88:23 136:12,13 138:1 146:17 methods 137:4 142:1 monitor 76:2 monochlorobiphenyls 162:16 monsanto 2:7,12 7:15 8:1 16:4 19:13 name notice 6:23 7:2 22:23 23:1 44:15 168:2,6 99:15 104:20 105:15 139:8 140:6,8 noticed 21:23 named notified 136:8 88:8,9 139:8,14 nampQ notify 28:19,21 79:2,5,18 90:18 144:18 michigan 42:22 112:15 156:4 165:1,1 165:3,9 miles 9:7,9 28:12 million 54:2 59:11,17 62:10 74:10 80:17 88:20 120:6,21 121:1 millions 56:8 58:1,4 mind 26:13 27:11 30:9 52:8 169:10 mineral 159:12 minimum 19:9 19:1621:1723:3,16,20 26:3,15 27:2,9,11,22 28:23 29:2,10 32:17 33:9 34:20 104:8,15 139:9 natural 135:20 136:1 162:9 35:5 38:7,10 39:2,8,9,12,14 39:19,22 40:7,12,21,23 41:1,2,9,13,20 42:3 43:4,5 43:8,9,19 46:5 47:2 50:3 naturally 162:6 nature 43:1 92:14 52:3,20 53:6,13 54:6 56:9 necessarily 57:4 58:11,18,1960:5 62:17 63:8,16 66:8 73:19 79:7,16 80:1 84:3 85:12 86:10 87:3,8,20 91:17 92:9 13:1 38:16 52:21 81:14 86:19 116:19 166:11 necessary 3:9 73:22 88:14 134:5,5,7 92:9,11 94:12,18 95:22 need 96:7,21 97:20 98:4,9 99:17 99:19 100:3 101:3,21 25:14 68:13,14,14,15,23 96:20 97:3,14 111:6 118:8 102:23 103:9,10 104:16,20 104:22 106:21 107:2 108:4 118:11,12 121:19 122:8 125:19 126:3,3,19 138:20 109:2 113:2,9 114:3 119:21 120:16 121:7 122:13,18 148:14 152:11 153:12,18 155:3 123:11 number 2:5,10 13:19 15:13 22:23 52:9,9 67:22 78:15 80:18 82:3 103:23 110:1,7 111:18 165:8 o object 18:6 20:11 24:2 26:4 27:14 30:12 32:1 33:12 34:5,22 37:4 38:12 40:15 49:13,20 53:10,17 56:1,15,23 58:7 58:15 59:5 60:7 62:5 67:18 68:7 70:5 74:8,12,23 92:15 94:15,21 96:2 101:6 102:1 108:8 109:6 115:16 117:10 118:18 119:8,23 122:16 125:21 128:13 129:6 130:18 142:8 145:13 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024228 [object - pcbs] object (cont.) okay (cont.) organization party 151:10 153:16 154:1,23 128:7 131:14 145:16 140:4 141:22 155:9,14,21 158:18 146:13 152:8 157:3 160:5 orientated pass objection 161:7,12 163:20 79:12 66:22 126:14 old original passed objections 42:16,18 114:4 157:23 143:10 144:14 164:7 50:16 3:9,12 once outboard pathway objective 39:7 72:11 87:21 88:5 137:18 138:17,22 36:22 81:10 107:23 90:19 98:9 100:3 148:2 outside pay objectives ones 39:7 87:20 89:22 91:19,23 133:8,11,12,17 135:11,15 104:11,13 105:18,21 106:3 28:18 33:20 44:14 51:10 95:11 125:5 137:4 142:1,5 106:8 109:1,5 81:6 110:16 134:19 143:8 overwhelmed paying obvious 162:19 165:11,11 75:16 46:6,9 133:14 27:5 ongoing owned pcb obviously 86:21 158:16 10:9,14,16 11:16,16 13:4 12:18 23:6 60:12 82:18 open oxidizing 16:9 17:3,10,20 53:22,23 90:20 104:11 170:3 79:23 159:10 58:1265:1967:11,12,15 occurred openly oxygen 75:13 79:22 80:4,10 87:5 47:4 113:21 79:6 103:9 104:14,21 105:1,4,7 occurring operating oyster 105:13,14 107:17 113:14 41:3 99:3 137:18 120:22 110:18 111:2 113:18 124:14 130:15 October operation oysters 140:17 144:19 145:2,7,23 8:21 91:18 110:9,15,22 112:11 165:22 offer operations P pcbs 14:20 123:13 133:16,18,20 30:11 91:4 166:6 opined offered 149:18,19 page 5:3,4,5,6,11,12 78:11 114:9 116:21 141:9 145:17 174:2 10:20,21 11:9,14 12:3,13 12:14,17 13:9,15,20 15:4 16:16 17:7,16,17,23 18:3 3:13 16:4 148:12 offering opinion 14:5,10,21 15:2 27:9 68:4,9 paid 7:9 8:4 39:23 46:12 48:4,5 18:10,12,14 19:4,23 20:3,9 20:16,20 21:7 22:2,6 23:21 166:18,19 office 140:16 68:11,18 140:17 143:4 145:7 148:21,22 150:2 opinions 57:15 59:1 133:14 136:21 138:5 170:18 paint 24:8,9 25:4,16 26:1,9,13,20 27:4,10,12,21 28:7,20 29:4 29:19 30:1,5,10,14,19,22 offices 2:20 6:7 13:14,17 14:8,12,14 15:6,7 16:4 25:5 89:9 133:18,20 1205 121 '22 1226 paragraph 31:8,11,13,22 32:6,9 33:2,7 33:10,17,18,21 34:2,11,15 official 86:13,16 133:22 140:22 141:2 148:11 149:17 150:16,21 8:22 83:13 110:7 114:9 115:23,23 116:21 118:23 34:20 35:2,6,7,19,22 36:16 36:20 37:1,9,10,12,15,20 oh 152:5 166:7 120:2 126:16 167:5 37:23 38:3,7,10,14,23 26:18 85:2 159:18 167:22 ohm 8:16,19,22 9:16 opposed 67:12 74:1 92:9 opposite pardon 11:12 30:21 part 39:14,20 40:1,8,1341:10 41:13,21,22 42:6,23 43:5 43:13,19 50:4,13 51:4 52:4 oil 25:8 32:14 31:12 36:1 54:20,21 55:4,6 option 77:10,19 70:1 oils oral 21:16 109:4 148:4,8 149:7 171:4 participate 124:1 52:13 53:6,9,14,21 54:2,7 54:14,17 55:6,18,23 56:3,9 56:12,19 57:5,17 58:18,19 59:2 60:2,4,19 61:3,8,18,19 55:2 77:12 120:4 6:10 173:8 particular 62:4,8 63:9 64:2,4 65:16,19 oily 55:17 okay 8:4 9:3 13:13 18:9 20:14 oranges 114:7 order 118:6 10:1 16:15 22:22 25:9 27:2 27:3 68:11 72:15 79:12 14022 16910 particularly 66:8,21 67:23 68:2,2,5 69:11,18,21 70:4,19 71:6 71:18 73:23 74:2,6,9 75:1 76:3 77:5,7,11,20 78:3,19 22:17 25:6 27:18 37:1,10 orderly 12:12 14:16 78:22 79:3,10,13 80:15 42:11 43:8 47:19 48:13 84:10 51:6 55:22 62:3 73:17 81:1 organic parties 2:16 3:11 172:15 81:4 83:20 84:18,22 85:5,7 86:8,20 87:7,9,21,22 88:4,6 90:23 93:11 94:12 95:5,6 99:4 105:17,20 106:7 19:4 50:9 60:19 106:1 109:12 parts 52:5,8 59:11,1762:10,11 88:11,16 89:1,2,10 90:2 91:7,9,12,14,21,21,22,23 110:20 111:3,15 116:1 organism 118:11 121:11 123:9 124:8 35:14 36:21 72:18 73:23 74:9 75:22 80:15,15,16,17 81:13 92:3,5,8,12,21 93:6 94:3,12 94:18 95:7 96:1,8,16,17 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024229 [pcbs - possibility] pcbs (cont.) people (cont.) ph.d. plant 97:12,14 98:9 99:4,7,17,19 35:6,16 41:22 54:14 59:18 6:18 50:7 53:1,5 11:10 14:1626:11 28:11 100:4,5 101:22 102:8 59:21 60:6,11 61:5,17 71:6 phenomenal 30:11,15,1839:851:15 103:11 104:16,18,20 106:8 76:8 77:4 78:2 84:20 85:7 88:17 53:6,7 54:17 55:5 56:20 106:12,18 107:2,14 108:5 86:8 87:13,16 93:14,22 phonetically 58:12,13 63:10 77:13 79:22 110:2,8,13,14,18,21 112:10 94:3 97:12 98:20 99:18 61:9 84:6 85:17 89:23 91:10,12 95:12 112:20,23 113:10 114:12 100:11 101:10 104:6 phrase 95:15 114:16,23 117:7 114:19,23 119:14,17 107:10 110:3 112:16 118:18 156:10,14 119:2,21 120:12,15,17 120:17 124:6,20,21,23 121:21,22 122:4 125:13 physical 124:14,21 125:20 126:12 125:1 126:11 128:10 129:3 127:16 134:14 136:3 139:9 34:15 68:1 165:14 142:12 155:17 156:7 160:7 129:14 130:1 133:23 134:3 141:10 148:2 154:7,8 physically 162:10 134:23 135:20,22,23 138:2 158:13,20 82:14 plants 139:10 140:22 141:3,11 percent physicist 114:10 115:18 142:6 144:17 145:10,20 17:15 19:1 57:12,13,20,23 63:5 plasticizers 146:2,11,14,18 147:16,19 58:2,6 75:12 76:7 77:5,7 pickens 94:2 147:22 148:12 149:19,20 81:12 90:18 92:13 11:1,7 please 152:23 153:14,14,21 percentage picking 6:23 126:21,23 154:21 155:5,17,20 156:4 92:8 74:1 plot 156:17 157:8 158:4,9,15 period piece 21:18 159:5,22 160:10,22 161:23 18:21 19:9,18,21 20:23 88:20,20 plots 162:1,13,22 163:6 164:14 35:13 41:9 42:4 43:13 pieces 22:2 164:17 165:2,4,8,10,17 45:12 47:4 49:6 56:17,18 88:21 point 166:9,19,20 167:15 peaks 58:10 62:14 66:7 73:20 piggy 85:4,9 92:23 94:5 129:13 62:19 12:19 23:19,23 24:6 40:7 40:20 56:7 58:10 73:7,17 84:18 97:12 112:19,22 130:13,14 135:4 155:8 pinned 75:17,18 77:22 78:7 90:12 peck 157:18,20 162:8,13 99:16 92:7 95:4 98:11,15 101:12 4:15 14:11,19 16:1 18:6 permission pipeline 101:13 102:7,11 106:11 20:11 23:9 24:2 26:4 27:14 38:16 134:22 135:21 107:22 108:21 120:9 30:12 32:1 33:12 34:5,22 permit pipelines 123:19,22 125:12 142:18 37:4 38:12 40:15 45:10,13 105:23 136:1,2,6 150:1,9,12 152:7 156:2,3,6 45:1646:1,3,8,11,15,18,21 persistence place 161:21 164:23 165:17,17 47:13 48:14 49:7,9,12,17 25:20 83:19 42:5 52:1 91:22 94:16 pointed 49:20 50:23 53:10,17 55:9 persistent 98:15 148:3 57:23 67:1,21 96:22 165:6 55:12,15 56:1,15,23 58:7 18:14,17,19,20 19:2,5,10 placed policy 58:15 59:5 60:7 62:5 67:18 24:21 25:16,17,18 20:4,21 21:5 22:4,6 24:8,9 116:13 68:7 70:5 74:8,12,23 78:21 person 24:10 polite 80:6 92:15 94:15,21 101:6 15:18 45:2 154:5 places 126:23 102:1 108:8 109:6 117:10 personally 15:6 89:22 119:14 165:4 polychlorinated 119:8,23 122:16 125:21 13:3 39:13 64:1 plaintiff 50:19,20,21 85:20,21 96:14 128:13 129:6 132:3 141:21 perspective 4:3 15:22 138:13 141:7,10 99:10,12 144:16 159:10 142:8 143:20 144:1 145:13 83:16 142:11,11,13 143:3 pool 149:14 151:1,10,14,17 pervasive plaintiffs 34:8 36:14,17,19 37:8 67:1 152:6 153:16 154:1,23 119:17 2:5,10 137:14 142:3 143:14 poorly 155:9,14,21 158:18 166:16 pesticides 145:11 107:7 167:1,6,9,19 168:5,15,23 51:14 59:22 62:9 84:16 plaintiffs portion 169:6,19 170:12,19 96:12 101:10,15 112:18 5:11,12 82:3 111:18 35:7 164:2 peck's pete plan portions 49:23 46:21 61:15 80:6 111:7 14:14 150:16 34:17 pell 166:16 167:9 plane portray 2:2 peter 44:22 77:6,7 Pennsylvania 4:6 planned position 132:8 140:16 petitioned 84:10 13:14 53:3 148:10 149:16 pensacola 164:3 planning possession 112:16 ph 151:3 40:7 people 2:6,11 plans possibility 14:21,23 26:20,23 30:16 129:22,22 114:15 156:6 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024230 [possibly - qualifying] possibly prevented process protection 102:20 123:14 160:19 124:12,18 126:7 127:23 10:15 11:17 12:8 38:22 15:8 100:21 133:5 posted preventing 42:4 85:23 91:4 95:8 146:3 protocols 166:2 124:11 148:8 65:11,1666:14 potential previous prodolac proven 128:2 130:1 154:17 161:23 103:23 105:5 130:2 158:22 potentially previously produce provide 84:22 112:20 151:7 90:10 67:3 87:11 88:10 93:7 110:3,4 pound primarily producing 114:11 118:2 119:6 139:8 58:1 28:1751:10 114:10 142:17 168:19,20 pounds primary product provided 56:8,12,22 58:1,4,5,11 28:14 10:1027:1 57:9 91:11 88:23 112:9 113:21 134:21 120:6,21 121:1 principal 96:14,15 98:20 99:14 138:23 139:13 140:11,17 poured 144:14 102:19 103:6 104:15 105:4 140:18 142:16 148:5 54:20,21 print 105:11,16 107:14 109:17 proving precipitous 172:9 109:20 129:18 136:9 141:23 109:16 prior production public precipitously 3:14 101:21 120:10 2:20 6:2 108:19 173:22 124:3 prioritize products publications precisely 126:5 86:2 90:2,10 96:23 99:8,10 94:10 63:1 priority 99:21 101:14 102:8,14 published predict 116:5,13 120:11 121:3 104:21 113:15 123:12 32:13,18,22 67:21 86:13,19 151:16 126:2 144:20 154:16 157:10 94:10 108:18 predicting private profits purchase 106:17 108:20 113:3 105:23 8:19 predominant privilege program purchased 92:11,17 100:2 47:11 121:12 122:1 8:15,16 9:18 27:1 92:9 predominantly privileged progress pure 11:14 45:20 47:6,8 116:5,18 118:10 125:9 24:9 164:1 prefer probability 130:5 purpose 18:16 90:21 project 71:12 72:7 preferred probable 10:17 11:1,2 16:5,21 118:2 pursuant 12:23 13:2 37:16 38:1,4 projects 6:4 premase probably 9:14,17 10:12 16:19 17:14 pushing 15:11 13:20 18:21 23:8 32:7 17:15 19:22 76:21 80:18 prepare 35:18 39:5 40:21 42:18,21 promise put 11:1582:10 53:1 70:22 73:18 131:22 152:19 8:109:2 12:4 19:8 21:7,8 prepared 134:21 135:5 140:8 147:8 pronounce 22:9,1031:1954:1869:14 60:22 150:7 152:5 157:22 150:1 164:2,7 64:16 69:22 75:13 88:12,22 90:16 171:3 problem proof 97:3 107:23 116:7 117:14 preparing 57:22 77:2 107:3 112:9 141:23 120:5,6 124:6 49:10 169:11 170:15 114:9 121:3 123:4,19 proper putting presence 124:23 125:3,4 167:18 10:9 13:15 103:2 14:11,1335:16 141:11 39:14,20 40:1 79:2,6 170:16,17,22 properly 164:10 144:16 problems 60:22 70:16 102:16 117:17 puzzle present 54:5 102:15 115:14 119:2,2 136:4 158:22 88:12,21 18:3 73:23 79:11 112:10 158:9 presented 49:18 137:17 pretreatment 12:10 pretty 58:2,6 139:3 prevent 105:22 119:21 121:7 122:13 124:14 127:11 128:1,2 procedure 6:5 proceed 84:11 132:9 proceeded 84:11 proceedings 6:11 properties 34:15 89:11 property 61:5,6 145:12 proposal 14:15 protect 106:1,8 109:3,11 protecting 107:4,8 q quaker 54 20 55 1 qualified 148 152 14223 qualify 136 152 11 qualifying 24:6 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024231 [quality - reporter's] quality ran recess relationship 9:13,13 75:13,14 81:22 99:13 quantitatively rapidly recognize relative 75:20 33:23 164:3 32:20 120:10 154:5 quantities rat recollection released 64:3,4 153:14 65:21 66:17 30:2 50:14 38:23 quantum ratios recommend releases 26:6 120:18 68:16 14:21 129:3 quarter rcra recommendations relevant 9:1 44:23 48:16 15:11 116:18 153:12,19 question read record relied 18:7 20:12,15 21:1 24:3 15:14,17 16:2 24:20,22 7:1 41:5,6 75:8 103:2 168:3 25:1526:5,11,12,1227:6 25:2,3,5 43:4,7,15,23 83:2 104:14 111:16 127:3 128:5 reluctant 27:15,16 30:13 32:2 33:13 83:21 110:22 115:19 128:6 130:4 139:1 150:13 69:3 34:6,23 36:13 37:7 38:13 116:23 119:4 127:2,3 150:15 169:8 reluctantly 38:21 40:16 45:17,18,19 144:22 145:21 146:4,6,6,18 recorded 68:22 46:1749:13,20 53:11,18 147:18 173:5 73:3,4,5 remain 55:10,14 56:2,16 57:1 58:8 reading records 21:5 59:6 60:8 62:6 68:8 69:6 3:2 23:9 35:5 103:20 92:20 135:7 remained 70:6,12,15 72:22 73:9,10 104:10 115:21 128:18 recover 20:21 74:17,18,19 76:14 80:2,21 144:10 166:23 167:5 90:16 remains 87:22 94:22 102:2 107:1,5 real reduce 37:8 109:7 117:11 118:17,20 89:1,4 90:15 92:20 98:21 128:10 remediate 119:9 120:1 122:17,19 100:22 141:21 157:5 reduced 10:9 14:1541:4 71:7 124:6 124:16 125:22 126:18,19 170:10 172:9 remediated 126:20,23 127:23 128:14 really reestablished 13:15,20,21 17:3 37:11,13 129:7,8 130:18,22 143:11 10:18 13:7,9,11 14:15,22 81:7 71:3 145:14 148:17 151:9,11,12 17:1 19:3,3 20:8 24:16 reference remediation 151:13,18 153:17 154:2 29:16 31:21 40:22 52:22 44:3 113:19 9:23 10:2,14,17 12:8 13:4 155:1,10,11,15,22 156:10 63:20 78:8 81:9 88:5 89:20 references 13:12 14:5,8 15:2 16:4,9 156:14 158:19 161:10 90:9 92:21 96:17 97:12 80:8 17:1,2,2,10,13,23 132:9 questioning 99:16 113:20 116:9,13 referred 133:22 146:13,16,22,23 58:23 118:19 120:9 122:5 127:9 50:18 147:7 148:14 149:18 questions 156:3 157:7,8 158:8 161:23 refinements remedy 3:10,11 25:13 46:23 49:18 164:2 72:20 68:5 50:1 69:4 73:19 74:13 80:7 reason reflects remember 116:10 118:8 130:10 22:8,17 52:19,23 59:9 103:2 128:5 19:19 28:15 42:21 44:2,18 151:22 166:17 167:3,13,21 63:23 71:21 74:6 77:8 refresh 82:23 93:13 100:20 136:20 167:23 172:8 81:15,16,18 138:19 150:17 23:13 44:17 138:22 139:7 142:15 quick 174:2 refusing removed 163:13 170:10 reasons 170:23 12:3,3 69:21 149:20 quickly 79:16 99:18 regarding removes 33:22 164:7 recalcitrant 16:4 17:7,10 83:16,19 10:5 quit 51:19 87:19 104:13 110:2 114:19 rephrase 121:19 recall 148:12 36:13 38:21 165:23 quite 41:7 43:16 44:1 93:18 region report 24:18 102:9 108:10 111:12 98:12 115:4 134:20 135:11 75:19 8:20 9:16 64:21 78:4 81:23 148:18 156:2 163:15 164:7 136:21,23 169:9 reimbursed 82:11,17,18,21,22 93:5,8 quote recalled 7:19 102:16 142:16 144:5 167:5 77:4 143:7 reimbursement reported railroad 11 '21 raises 126:14 r receive 138:11 135:18 related received 17:20 8:1 48:9 50:15 85:13,15,17 relating receiving 3:5 7:15,21 62:7 93:21 94:2 103:15 110:14 reporter 6:1 137:16 reporter's 5:4 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024232 [reporting - seeing] reporting retained road satisfied 85:20 86:1 93:12 7:5,8 57:11 76:20 reports retrospect robin saturated 8:9 15:17,21 16:2 42:10 56:19 50:16 85:18 36:18,19 51:8 85:1,13,15 86:16 returning rogers sauget 110:18,20 112:22 159:4,8 10:7 169:7 91:10,12 169:7 170:5 reused role saved representative 36:14 9:22 107:19 66:18 90:3 reveal room saw representatives 46:23 138:10,16 23:6 53:8,15 54:15 55:18 138:18 review roughly 55:23 77:4 78:5 90:16 represents 8:9 28:10 44:7 47:23 132:8 9:8 94:16 172:10 142:14 169:22 170:1 route saying reproduce reviewed 161:22 27:8 32:23 33:1 35:4 41:7 78:7 143:5 150:4 169:4,13,15 routes 67:10 69:10 73:12,15 74:2 requested 170:4,7,9 86:12 76:20 81:9 86:19 95:20 139:9 rhetoric routine 106:17,18 108:17,19 required 126:21 51:9 75:4 110:17 113:9 126:1 140:3 115:11 rhine routines 146:7 149:1 154:18,19 requires 112:14 152:12 158:5 159:19 160:9 168:8 55:19 richard rule says research 93:16,17 6:4 61:1,4 64:21 83:13 110:12 94:4 richards rules 110:13,21 112:13 116:1,22 reside 93:14,20 3:5 6:5 142:22 118:23 134:13 140:14 7:3 rid run 144:7,10,14 145:20,22 residue 12:21 12:13,15 75:3,4 160:14,14 167:7 65:11 right running scale residues 16:11 17:4,7,11,19,21 10:4 126:2 144:17,20 19:13,21,23 20:6,10,20 rust scenario resources 21:23 22:12,23 24:1 25:15 8:17 121:18 118:5,9 respect 15:3 121:6 122:13 124:14 133:22 respective 2:16 response 83:17 84:1 86:6 97:18,21 26:1 27:22 28:21 29:20 s 30:1 31:4,15 32:22 39:20 safe 40:14 52:5 53:16 54:10 56:9,14 58:6 62:13 63:10 102:9 safety 66:22 69:9,16,17,23 70:4 71:1,7,8,1072:1,1478:17 107:15 109:17 sales 79:21 80:13 84:16 86:4 105:22 106:1 91:3,6 95:11 101:17 103:20 school 42:19,22 53:1,5 scientific 35:16 83:14,15,18 86:12 145:19 158:3 scientists 41:16 113:4 123:1 144:15 scope 125:11 responsibilities 104:8 107:13 108:7 112:1,5 113:13 116:21 117:4 159:12 samagano 151:2 scott 9:10,12 89:15,17 responsible 21:21 27:3 28:3,19 108:1 109:13 125:11,16 127:5 122:10 123:17,20 124:11 128:20 129:15 132:5 146:2 146:4 149:13 150:23 154:19 155:3 159:2 160:12 11:2 sample 60:21 75:1,13 114:18 167:16 2:8,18 6:9,13 7:2 22:12 23:1 82:11 97:2 second 144:6,11 150:14 131:8 160:17 162:12 169:9 170:8 samples secondly responsibly 130:3 rest 91:20 170:21 risk 68:15,16 river 28:14 29:21 30:1,5,6,15 39:5 61:22 62:8 78:23 81:5 90:3,11,15,20 95:3 96:10 96:19 110:16 113:21 16:20 168:10 secret 149:9 section restate 12:6,9 13:4 18:4 28:13 114:16 115:3 119:13 144:6 20:15 result 31:15,20 53:7,14 54:8 59:4 68:6 70:8 141:12 158:15 144:21 147:12 158:4 sampling sediment 12:18 166:9,15 38:14 84:6 136:17,19 142:6 172:16 159:13 162:9 165:22 166:2 166:4 167:15 sanders sediments 30:20,22,23 31:14 results 59:16 rivers 153:1,22 2:19 6:1 172:21 seeing 61:6 78:2 81:4 84:21 85:4,7 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024233 [seeing - spectometry] seeing (cont.) sheet sir (cont.) soluble 86:20 112:22,23 158:3 5:6 119:5 124:9,17 126:4,18 31:4,18 98:18 seen shell 127:22 128:7 133:21 somebody 22:14 23:5,8,14 25:7,8 44:2 54:21,23 134:19 135:4,17 142:2 95:12,13 139:9,12 140:3 44:3,6 53:22 54:6 55:4 82:8 shelter 153:11 157:3 161:13 166:1 142:1,19 146:16,17 158:3 84:18 85:20 105:19 168:8 2:9 sit soon 168:21,23 short 24:16 121:17 63:17 segregated 136:10 138:23 165:19 site sophisticated 170:12 shortcut 10:8 12:22 13:22 20:9,16 54:1 55:19 61:20 77:9 sell 33:14,15,15 167:10 20:18,21 31:22 69:22 115:12 57:10 shorten 140:22 soren selling 146:3 sites 78:4 84:16 100:12 shortly 9:20 16:17 152:22 sorry sense 106:16 sits 78:21 150:19 31:5 38:20 87:15 95:17 show 170:20 sort 105:2 130:23 44:13 115:20 170:14 sitting 7:21 11:22 14:21 15:11 sensitive showed 108:3 128:17 153:7 34:1 36:16 39:6 42:15 32:7 72:5,9,17 54:22 170:14 situation 43:18 57:16 59:23 68:13 sensitivity shows 68:6,12 71:2 130:7 142:17 78:6 87:15 90:6 95:9 52:15,16 76:9 107:6 130:4 situations 100:12 101:10,15 102:13 sent shrimp 15:11 70:18,21 71:4 113:19 121:2 126:20 137:15 168:2,6 110:9,15,18,22 112:11 six 132:12 138:10 139:10 sentence side 83:13 147:8 149:8 156:9 165:12 115:22 116:22 117:13 15:22,23 sixteen sorts 144:6,11 sign 42:18,20 157:23 17:2 147:13 separate 140:13 slowly soup 12:18 signature 164:4 96:12 September 3:2 173:1 small source 104:3 106:15 108:4 112:5 signed 19:23 28:20 29:4 50:4 52:9 11:9 27:10,11 91:1 95:4,4 113:9 125:12 8:20 52:13,14 59:2,8,10,11,15 99:19 100:2 145:7 164:8 serious significance 60:5,11 64:3,3 71:23 72:4 sources 126:21 95:21 73:22 74:20 76:19 80:18 91:2 92:10 103:5,10 144:16 seriousness significantly 86:9 88:20 119:2,21 145:2 123:19,22 121:2 smaller south set similar 71:18,19 76:22,22,23 7:4 9:4,5,8,8 11:1,7 63:18 59:21 134:23 136:14 snow southtrust settled simple 14:17 15:4 26:2,13 27:12 4:7 142:18 25:15 56:6 28:1,16 29:19 38:10 39:1,4 soviets settling simplify 53:9 56:13 58:14 126:11 91:21 115:5 156:8 163:21,22 128:10 130:16 148:13 speak seven simply 154:22 155:7,18 156:20 39:3 114:9 115:23 116:21 64:11 158:14 160:10 162:1,14 spec 126:16 simultaneously 164:17 157:7 sewage 124:13,18 sodium specialized 159:9,17,18,20 160:5,7,11 single 18:23 171:7 160:15,20,23 161:2,3,5,15 45:23 151:18 soil specializes 161:17,21 162:10 sink 10:4,7,8,19 12:3 13:23 15:16 shadow 160:6 21:18 22:1,5 23:21 species 158:23 sir soils 65:17 68:3 shape 10:23 11:8 21:2 25:10 30:22 specific 22:3 169:14 27:20 30:19 32:9 37:10,15 sold 33:6 66:4 94:8,9 105:14 shared 37:19 38:10 41:12 42:12,20 92:5 115:3 118:2 166:4 114:1 122:21,22 123:1,1,2 49:9 50:2 51:5 60:3 63:23 solids specifically 123:2,3,17 127:8 65:6 67:7 70:17 72:6 80:12 31:2 26:10 140:8 shareholders 106:7 109:9 112:2,7 114:8 soluable spectometry 57:15,16 115:2 117:5,16 118:23 31:9 155:4 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024234 [spectrometer - talking] spectrometer state (cont.) stuff (cont.) 158:7,16 138:1 159:20 172:3 72:18 74:20 78:1 96:9 spectrometry stated 164:9 169:2 90:8 155:4 8:21 42:9 115:14 subject speed statement 15:9 8:11 46:8 77:21 80:5 110:13 submitted spell 126:22 127:4 128:19 168:7 114:16 11:3 50:23 states subpoenaed spelled 62:22 81:7,17 89:14 91:8 138:14,23 61:8 84:5 91:14,23 92:6,12,22 110:8 subscribed speller 132:8 173:15 11:5 stating subsequently spend 131:5 50:20 47:23 128:11 status substance spent 25:11 83:2 17:6 48:3 71:5,16 148:20 stay substations spills 23:22 24:10 34:9 36:4,6,9 136:3 11:20,21 17:10 36:17 37:2,9 56:6 163:7,8 substitute split 164:12 123:15 56:5 stayed successful sprayed 20:17 29:8 51:15,21,22,23 stays sued spread 19:7 24:23 37:9 141:11 142:4 88:16 100:13 101:8,16 stenotype sufficient 102:10 172:8 74:10 spreading steps suggest 100:14 62:19 150:4 17:19 27:8 43:5 80:7 St stipulated 114:17 2:1 129:4 2:153:1,8 suggested stage stipulation 25:2 168:16 6:5 suggests stamp stop 126:5 22:23 104:2 114:5 67:9 126:10 167:11 suit stamped stored 132:9 137:18 103:22 34:8,11 summary standard storm 98:1,2 144:5,7,8,8,11 75:3 113:14,18 116:9 sunlight standards storming 68:1 90:1 113:15 125:10 superfund stands stream 9:14,20 169:10 12:6,9 55:18 162:9 supervising Stanford streams 21:21 137:12 138:15,17 95:8 153:1 supervision start street 172:9 85:14 88:21 94:4 124:5 2:21 4:8,16 6:8 154:5,7 supplementing 126:3,3 structure 141:18 started 51:3 89:12 supplied 84:19 85:21 86:3 88:13 studies 29:21 89:17,20 132:19 37:22 65:1267:15 110:11 supplier starts study 92:11,13 144:11 20:2 65:11,15,1668:14 supposed state 95:21,23 96:1 51:16 140:20 160:4 2:20 6:2,23 9:16 15:10 studying supposition 16:14 19:8 20:5,10,17 87:5 40:3 37:22 54:20 55:1 76:12 stuff sure 77:21 102:7 125:17 136:13 19:1 58:12 59:3 71:22 22:17,19 23:14 26:6,9,16 sure (cont.) 28:8,10 44:4 54:13 56:19 58:19 63:19 79:9 85:8 89:12 98:13 101:9 102:12 107:10 110:6 112:6 115:7 141:8 143:10 154:18 160:1 160:20 166:15 surface 18:15 surprise 24:4 51:23 88:15 surprised 24:12,14 surprising 21:6 24:18,20 51:17 95:5 swallow 130:9 swear 140:13 Sweden 41:1660:6 96:19 102:18 112:14 119:11 swedes 61:23 62:3,7,13 63:16 78:16 85:16 94:6,19 95:2,5 Swedish 41:21 50:17 59:16,18,21 63:18 81:3 95:21 96:7 99:9 sworn 6:14 173:15 system 18:4 31:20 53:14 60:15 66:22 68:6 70:3 100:19 141:12 165:22 166:2,4 systems 13:4 53:7 66:9 107:17 167:16_________________ t taken 2:19 10:21 29:22 33:14 81:22 88:2 96:9 116:20 127:6 150:5 165:17 172:7 173:8 talk 18:1025:21 45:1349:1,16 70:13 73:8 98:7 107:8 132:5,17,18 150:3 151:7 talked 26:10 45:14,23 49:3,10 67:22,23 86:5 104:7 152:6 152:13 156:19 158:1 talking 13:7 16:10 22:14,20 32:3,4 33:6 43:22 44:5 45:15 52:4 56:17,21 62:10,11 74:14 79:21 84:13 85:9 86:7,11 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024235 [talking - today] talking (cont.) tendency thing thomas 87:16 92:13,16 93:1,2,3 31:14 9:15 13:18 15:16 17:3 2:4 105:20 107:9 112:3 114:6 tenth 41:15 45:23 53:4 55:5 60:6 thought 120:21 124:8 132:4 154:14 17:13,15 63:19 67:5 68:12 70:21 15:9 49:18 70:20,22 78:2 156:12,13 157:20 158:7 terms 74:7 86:16,21 87:15 88:18 81:4,20 84:17 90:20 93:3 161:22 162:16,18 163:20 13:6 17:23 18:17 24:7 84:7 89:7 90:1 95:5 100:22,23 97:12,13 119:15,18 123:21 164:13,14 169:12 170:5 92:21 113:11 121:13 105:8 113:14,14 137:15 146:20 147:10,15,17 149:2 talks 123:14 142:22 152:16 164:6 165:5 160:5 24:21,22 test things thousand tall 21:18 28:20 29:4 35:9,10 7:21 11:20,22 14:1 15:11 8:6 46:13 47:16,20 48:11 138:23 35:13 39:14,19 40:1,8,9 18:10,22,23 24:8 25:11 163:19 task 41:20 42:5 43:1 50:4,12 34:1 35:14,23 36:1 39:6 thousands 60:4 64:1 52:3,7,12 59:2,8,9 63:9 42:14 43:18 44:19 47:6 56:11,11,21,22,22 58:5,11 team 71:6,9 73:21 76:23 79:2,5 49:19 52:18 54:2 57:16 58:11 144:15 149:7 80:14 153:21 155:19 58:1 59:22 60:17 61:6,9 three technical tested 62:16 63:7 66:18 68:2 8:6 46:13 47:16,19 48:11 13:17 14:9 18:1738:19 28:1,6 71:18 77:10,14,16 78:3,6 48:14 74:13 114:9 116:21 39:19,23 145:18 148:1,15 testified 78:13 79:3,7,14,16,19 80:8 131:22 135:5 technically 6:14 97:16 131:14,17,20,23 84:21 85:3,6 86:1,15,20 throw 13:7 87:17 133:1,19 137:6,8,20,23 87:8,9,17 88:5 89:6 90:5,9 57:18 160:5 technique 139:1,2 141:6 142:3 143:8 90:15 98:14,16,22 99:21 thrown 12:23 13:2 64:11,11 72:17 143:17 100:12 101:10,15 102:13 98:19 160:6 75:21 76:2 81:12,14 testify 103:13 106:9 107:12,12 tie techniques 46:18 47:14 49:6 83:11,14 110:1 112:21 113:12 118:6 149:5 39:13 53:2 54:1 55:19 83:15 87:12,18 97:20 131:2 123:16 129:14 130:1 time 62:21 64:8 72:16 76:23 131:4 132:10 133:6,12,13 132:12 137:23 138:3,10 3:12,13 7:18 8:1 12:1 18:22 77:9 81:2,3,6,19 90:6,7,14 133:19 137:22 138:14,19 139:10 147:8 148:6 149:8 19:21 20:22 23:3 30:10 115:12 142:21 147:14,16 138:21 139:5 146:17 147:4 151:21 152:13 153:1 154:4 32:3,4,5,17 33:7 35:13 technologies 147:5,9 151:3 154:15 155:5 156:5 170:5 39:18 40:10 41:9 42:4,22 8:14 39:1560:3 71:17 testifying think 44:21 45:9,12 47:4,17,23 153:21 133:2,4 135:2 136:14 8:6 15:6 21:6 24:17 27:5 48:3,4,5,18,19 49:4,6 58:10 technology 139:14 157:13 171:2 32:3,6 33:4,4,7,14 37:7 59:23 62:2,14 63:6 66:8 12:1 14:3 29:10,16,18 40:9 testimony 38:15 39:5,9,9 41:4,13,14 77:22 78:7 80:23 85:4,9 52:7 59:19,21 60:12,14 7:9,16 45:13,15 46:7,10,14 41:18 42:18 43:11 44:23 90:12 92:7,23 94:6,13 61:10,18,20 62:13 63:8 47:3 48:1049:1,5,11,17 45:2,17 57:2,4,8 61:13 70:7 98:15 99:13 100:20 101:13 65:8,11 76:21 155:13,19 66:7 87:19 108:3 131:21 77:2,19 80:3 81:20 86:20 101:19 102:8,11 105:20 telex 132:18 133:8,10 134:21 86:23 88:14 89:5,16 91:3 106:5,11 107:4,6,22 108:21 50:17,19 96:18 135:12 136:10 137:9,12,16 91:18,19 92:7,16,20 97:7 113:7,8,23 114:21 116:3,16 tell 138:5 140:10 143:13 150:7 107:2,5,8,9 113:7 114:6 117:5,15,22 118:1 119:17 10:12 11:1321:1226:22 151:2 153:11 165:21 166:6 116:4 120:2 125:16,23 120:15,16 121:8 122:4,15 35:21 41:12 44:5 46:19 169:11 170:18 173:8 127:4,6,22 129:2 130:3,3 123:20 124:15 125:12,19 49:9 54:23 55:1 59:7 64:14 testing 130:12 131:11 132:16,21 126:6,10 127:11 128:1,9,12 67:20 69:7 75:20 83:11,23 27:21 28:3 29:19 31:20 137:8,10 140:15 142:17 129:13 130:10,20 131:9 88:3 91:2 96:5,5 99:6 106:9 42:8 59:14 60:4 64:2 72:3 143:19 144:2 149:11 133:13 135:4,9 138:9 150:9 109:10 111:1 127:8 130:11 78:23 112:8 115:9 150:20 158:21 160:14 150:12 152:7 155:8 156:3 131:23 133:21 134:18 tests 163:15,20,21 167:19 168:7 156:17 157:11,18,20,23 142:2 149:10 152:18 22:11 40:12 59:9 87:4 168:9,15,23 169:1 170:13 162:13 163:8,17 164:10,12 153:12 159:5 162:12 tetrachlorobiphenyls thinking 170:20 163:16 167:2 162:17 33:21 timely telling thank thinks 118:9 167:11 30:8 144:3 times tells thereto third 46:22 93:22 141:6 64:12 3:14 172:8 145:17,19 165:3 tissue ten thermal thirty 37:2 65:11 66:13 126:2 163:19 10:1,5,15,17,17,18 12:8,20 9:7 19:7,9 23:22 38:8 71:16 today 73:20 130:13,14 7:1723:5 45:1349:1,5,17 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024236 [today - veracity] today (cont.) treated type unit 100:2 108:3 128:17 130:2,7 10:15 13:23 49:19 60:19 82:14 10:5 120:10,22 130:8 136:15 150:18 treatment 87:9 88:4 90:11 105:14 united 152:19 153:7,15,23 154:5,9 10:5 14:2 159:9,17,18,20 types 50:15 62:21 81:7,17 85:18 154:10 158:11 167:15 160:7,12,15,20,23 161:2,3 99:20 110:15 158:6 89:14 91:8,14,19,23 92:5 today's 161:5,15,17,22 162:10 typically 92:12,22 132:7 107:7 trial 34:11 universities token 3:13 14:14 131:21 140:12 typo 123:2 71:1 149:13 96:18 university told tried typographical 21:19 50:9 9:3 46:5 70:17 146:20 81:21 109:10 156:6 83:1 unofficial 147:10,17 149:13 158:17 158:19 160:21 168:10 top 104:2 114:5 topic 114:14 totally 154:20 tower 4:7 toxaphene 61:8 142:12 146:1 toxic 43:5,19 149:20 toxicological 148:12 toxicologist 148:6,6,19 toxicologists 148:5 149:18 trace 153:13 155:19 trade 104:19 105:15 trained 87:17 tram 99:21 transcript 172:11 173:6,7 transfers 107:18 transformer 100:18 transformers 95:13 transport 166:18 travel 7:20 166:11 traveled 136:1 treat 12:21 trigger u 86:14 74:10 triggered u.s. 137:9,17 unsaturated 37:8 41:15 trillion 72:18 75:22 80:15 81:13 true 51:8,21 52:22 62:4 78:8,9 81:9 83:9 89:5 95:18 97:1,5 97:10 112:23 129:5 149:20 149:22 152:19 158:11 172:10 173:7 truly 158:23 truthful 50:6 truthfully 127:9 try 11:4 50:12 54:18 77:7 80:22 108:14 130:7 trying 23:19,23 24:7 25:9,10,13 25:21 27:8 28:15 35:2 42:21 44:18 52:2,12 53:19 56:4,7 69:3 71:14 76:16,18 77:17 79:1 80:6 82:23 101:13 109:12 113:5 123:7 125:13 127:15 131:5 139:7 142:10 147:3,5 151:19 152:3 161:9 163:21 167:10 168:12,13 tucker 2:8,186:10,13,187:2 18:13 22:12 23:1 24:5 25:2 30:9 39:13 46:20 47:15 48:9 71:1 78:11 82:12 103:4 111:21 116:14 143:20 turns 52:16 100:1 twelve 19:19 twenty 9:9 35:9,11 56:17 ubiquitous 32:6 96:1 uh 107:20 ultimately 137:3 ultra 72:16 unaltered 19:8 20:5,10,17 unaware 154:20 unbelievably 31:22 unchanged 20:22 23:22 25:1 uncommon 16:13 18:2 55:5 understand 11:19 17:5 18:2,1625:14 27:6 32:9,11 35:8,17 53:13 56:7 59:1 60:10 63:3 69:4,4 70:16 72:3,6 73:19 74:21 77:1 79:17 80:3,10,16 88:14 98:22 104:19 107:10 119:16 123:8 124:2 126:19 147:1 148:17 152:2,9 154:11 160:3,9 161:4,20 163:23 166:22 167:17,22 171:1 understanding 66:12 122:20,21 127:11 136:20 understands 102:20 understood 85:19 88:18 98:4,15 101:15 102:10 170:2 unduly 111:11 unfair unusual 97:1 urine 36:23 66:23 usda 123:2 use 11:22 12:8,20 63:6,22 95:4 95:15 100:11,16 101:14 113:18 116:16 121:21,22 123:14 138:9 141:19,21 142:13 148:7 154:15 157:9 useless 71:11 user 102:12 users 103:5 uses 71:8 106:1 107:15,17 109:18 usually 139:7 utilized 120:5 V vaguely 44:1 valuable 98:20 vaporized 10:20 variables 14:1 variety 112:12 various 13:9 68:3 116:7 119:13 136:3 veracity 87:12 167:13 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024237 [verb - yesterday] verb wants words yesterday 38:18 34:10 142:20 48:4 51:20 58:5,8 65:19 23:15,1844:11,21 48:15 verified warn 66:20 82:10,14 83:10 84:9 169:14,16,22,23 170:1,4,9 78:16 86:17 94:18 96:17 87:7 88:2 107:6 145:1 163:1 97:13 119:10 warning work verify 128:2 9:19 17:20,22 19:12 20:2 78:8,15 81:17 97:4,9,11 water 50:8 78:7 97:8 116:5,17 98:10 140:19 142:14 166:5 12:12,14,15,19,21 31:3,4,6 117:23 118:10 125:9 130:5 verifying 31:9,10,10,17,18,18,19,23 159:8 161:2,12 10:6 89:17 65:9 79:6,19 164:4,6 worked versus 166:11 8:17 10:13 17:12 18:5 92:17 119:2 130:20 162:9 watershed 19:18,22 54:14 73:21 viewpoint 27:4,4 39:9 134:15 137:13 142:10 76:5 102:12,13 138:3 waterways worker 148:15 16:17 102:12 virtually waukegan workers 20:5,10,17,22 22:3 23:22 137:19 43:11,12 25:1 ways working visual 13:19 19:23 71:6,17 78:3 8:15 11:19 17:6 27:21 77:9 124:6 160:22 161:14 32:17 41:20 42:14 71:5 vitae weight 90:18 110:3 135:8 138:9 144:6 36:15 world voice went 52:12 126:14 28:9,16 36:1 48:20,22 89:6 worms volatile 90:4,14,19 121:12 140:18 79:23 98:17 we've worry volumes 46:10,15 52:18 85:3 97:7 124:13 32:20 104:6 111:21,21 112:3 worse vs 154:19 157:20 170:19 70:13 2:6,11 whatsoever worst w 125:3 121:17 wagon 85:2 wait 28:8 45:16,21 55:8,11 61 14 161 8 waived 3:3 want 12:16 15:9 16:19 17:4,5,19 18:1,9 22:19 25:11 26:22 27:10 46:22 67:8 70:13 71:22 72:8 76:18 77:6 79:23 80:19 89:18 92:17,18 98:1,7 100:3,7 101:20 105:6 109:15,16 111:8,10 113:8 114:18 119:19 120:13 123:15 127:5,10 128:11 132:19,23 142:2,9 147:3 149:5,9,10,11 152:4 152:8 154:18 163:19 167:6 167:10 169:18 170:8 wanted 17:21 38:19 59:7 83:7 109:11,13 113:18 117:23 wheeler 93:16 white 2:21 4:14 6:8 33:17 widespread 95:10 144:16 166:2,5 widmirk 84:17 86:18 89:18 106:16 witness 3:3 6:10 14:18 45:22 47:21 51:1 111:11 126:14 131:15 131:16,18 145:23 146:11 151:6 168:18 170:15,17 171:2 172:11 173:1,12 witnesses 55:23 148:11 won 16:21 wonder 87:1 97:1 125:2 wondered 98:13 word 38:16 94:23 95:1 116:16,23 117:2 144:12 152:21 write 114:13 146:8 written 83:5 104:11 159:4 wrong 35:3 74:5 77:21 95:20 96:6 106:18 107:22 129:3,9,11 129:15 130:13 131:12 wrote 44:15 83:6 y y'all 29:18 45:23 49:1,16 63:23 yeah 69:14 87:23 93:17 158:20 159:18 year 8:21 9:2 19:9 20:23 41:9 56:17 73:20 130:13,14 years 11:18,18 19:7,1921:9 23:8 23:20,20,21,22 38:8 42:18 71:16 78:1 135:5 157:23 163:18,19,19 165:7,8 166:3 Tucker, E. Scott (deft's analyt chem expert) in DYER WATER PCB-SD0000024238