Document 44z6G6qy311YM5MrnXzK3ejjV

Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 3 | SUPERIOR COURT OF NEW JERSEY HOWARD BIRD, JR. and | LAW DIVISION DEBORAH BIRD, husband | and wife, | MIDDLESEX COUNTY | Docket No. L-3599-08 AS Plaintiffs, | | vs. | Civil Action | Asbestos Litigation 3M, et al., | | Defendants. | 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 DEPOSITION OF: KENNETH L. WHITE February 6, 2009 - 9:00 a.m. 11 12 13 14 15 Location: Parsons, Behle & Latimer 201 South Main Street, Suite 1800 Salt Lake City, Utah 16 17 18 19 20 Reporter: VICKY McDANIEL, CSR, RMR 21 22 23 Page 2 FOR DEFENDANT UNION CARBIDE (by telephone): RONALD S. SUSS, ESQ. PICILLO CARUSO POPE EDELL PICINI, P.C. 60 Route 46 East Fairfield, New Jersey 07004 (973) 667-6000 rsuss@carusopope.com FOR DEFENDANTS ROCKWELL AUTOMATION, INC. and EATON CORPORATION (by telephone): ALEXIS P. MENDOZA, ESQ. McELROY, DEUTSCH, MULVANEY & CARPENTER, LLP 1300 Mount Kemble Avenue P.O. Box 2075 Morristown, New Jersey 07962-2075 (973) 425-8147 amendoza@mdmc-law.com FOR DEFENDANT SIEMENS CORP. (by telephone): GINA CALABRIA, ESQ. WILSON ELSER 33 Washington Street Newark, New Jersey 07102 (973) 624-0800 ext. 289 Gina.Calabria@wilsonelser.com FOR DEFENDANT CBS/WESTINGHOUSE (by telephone): ERIC L. HORNE, ESQ. ECKERT SEAMANS 600 Grant Street, 44th Floor Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15219-2788 (412) 566-1289 ehorne@eckertseamans.com Page 4 1 APPEARAN CE S 2 FOR THE PLAINTIFFS (by telephone): 3 CHRISTOPHER M. PLACITELLA, ESQ. 4 COHEN, PLACITELLA & ROTH 127 Maple Avenue 5 Red Bank, New Jersey 07701 (732) 747-9003 6 cplacitena@cprlaw.com 7 FOR DEFENDANT GEORGIA PACIFIC: 8 JAMES E. HOOPER, JR., ESQ. 9 WHEELER TRIGG KENNEDY LLP 1801 California Street, Suite 3600 10 Denver, Colorado 80202-2617 (303) 244-1849 11 hooper@wtklaw.com 12 FOR DEFENDANT SQUARE D (by telephone): 13 MEGAN E. KRIEGSTEIN, ESQ. 14 K&L Gates One Newark Center, Tenth Floor 15 Newark, New Jersey 07102-5285 (973) 848-4079 16 megan.kriegstein@klgates.com 17 FOR DEFENDANT SEARS HOLDING CORPORATION 18 (by telephone): 19 RICHARD L. HAAS, ESQ. SWANSON, MARTIN & BELL 20 330 North Wabash, Suite 3300 Chicago, Illinois 60611 21 (312) 222-8556 rhaas@smbtrials.com 22 23 24 25 1 FOR DEFENDANTS WHIRLPOOL CORPORATION AND MAYTAG CORPORATION (by telephone): 2 DENNIS SCHMIEDER, ESQ. 3 MARKS, O'NEILL, O'BRIEN & COURTNEY, P.C. Cooper River West 4 6981 North Park Drive, Suite 300 Pennsauken, New Jersey 08109 5 (856) 663-4300 dschmieder@mooclaw.com 6 7 INDEX 8 KENNETH L. WHITE PAGE 9 Examination by Mr. Placitella 6 10 Examination by Mr. Suss 154 Further Examination by Mr. Placitella 154 11 12 REQUESTED ITEMS 13 DESCRIPTION PAGE 14 Report in an asbestos case prepared by Mr. 9 White 15 Binder of articles relating toasbestos 14 Transcripts of testimony given by Mr. White 19 16 Photograph of product packaging 62 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 (Pages 1 to 4) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 5 Page 7 1 PROCEEDINGS 1 A. Yes. 2 MR. PLACITELLA: We're doing this 2 Q. Okay. And how many occasions? 3 deposition -- the audio is over the telephone and I 3 A. Probably about 20 at this point. 4 am looking at the witness, and I presume the witness 4 Q. Okay. So you're familiar with what goes 5 can see me through a Skype webcam. So that's how 5 on in a deposition and rules and how things are done? 6 we're proceeding, and hopefully that will help things 6 A. Yes. 7 along a little bit better. 7 Q. And what kind of cases were you deposed 8 MR. HOOPER: The court reporter asks that 8 in? 9 the other attorneys involved please state your 9 A. Well, it's been a wide variety of 10 appearances. 10 industrial hygiene related cases. A few have been 11 MR. HAAS: This is Rich Haas. I'm 11 asbestos. There have been any number of chemical 12 representing Sears Holding Corporation with Swanson, 12 exposure cases, dust exposures, carbon monoxide, wide 13 Martin, and Bell. 13 variety of industrial hygiene. 14 MR. PLACITELLA: How do you spell your 14 Q. Okay. When you testified in asbestos 15 last name, Rich? 15 cases, on whose behalf did you testify? 16 MR. HAAS: H-a-a-s. 16 A. I have done a number of cases for Union 17 MS. KRIEGSTEIN: This is Megan Kriegstein. 17 Pacific Railroad more as a corporate witness and in 18 I spell my last name K-r-i-e-g-s-t-e-i-n. I 18 one or two cases as an expert. 19 represent Square D and I'm with K&L Gates. 19 Q. Okay. 20 MR. SCHMIEDER: This is Dennis Schmieder, 20 A. This is my first deposition for Georgia 21 S-c-h-m-i-e-d-e-r, here on behalf of Whirlpool 21 Pacific. I did one very early on, gosh, back in the 22 Corporation and Maytag Corporation. 22 80's, and I scarcely remember the name of that one. 23 MR. SUSS: Ronald, R-o-n-a-l-d, Suss, 23 Q. So if I was to ask you what companies 24 S-u-s-s, on behalf of Union Carbide. 24 involved in asbestos litigation you've consulted for, 25 MR. PLACITELLA: There's going to be a 25 would it be limited to Union Pacific and Georgia Page 6 Page 8 1 couple more people coming in. I just got a couple 1 Pacific? 2 e-mails about the call-in number, and I apologize to 2 A. Largely. I had one other recently that 3 everyone for the snafu. I'll throw my secretary 4 under the bus. How about that? 3 was a pump manufacturer, compressor manufacturer. 4 Q. Who was that? 5 MR. HORNE: Eric Horne, H-o-r-n-e, for 5 A. What is their name? Something Housefeld. 6 Westinghouse. 6 It didn't go to deposition. 7 7 Q. Okay. So those are the three defendants: 8 KENNETH L. WHITE, 8 Union Pacific, Georgia Pacific, and some pump 9 having first been duly sworn, 9 manufacturer? 10 was examined and testified as follows: 10 A. Yes, or compressor. 11 11 Q. All right. How many asbestos cases have 12 EXAMINATION 12 you consulted on, number of cases? 13 BY MR. PLACITELLA: 13 A. Eight or ten, somewhere in that 14 Q. Good morning, Mr. White. How are you? 14 neighborhood. 15 A. Very good. Thank you. 15 Q. Okay. How many for Georgia Pacific? 16 Q. Can you see me on your screen? 16 A. Probably about four or five cases. 17 A. Yeah. You're kind of small and off in one 17 Q. Okay. Did you prepare reports in all 18 corner, but I can see you. 18 those cases? 19 Q. That's my general demeanor. 19 A. No. Only in one other report -- or one 20 A. Okay. 20 other case besides this one. 21 Q. We're here today for the purpose of taking 21 Q. And what case was that? Do you remember? 22 your deposition. I represent the plaintiff in this 22 A. That was -- was it Kerns, Jim? I believe 23 case. 23 it was Kerns. 24 Have you ever had your deposition taken 24 Q. Where was that case? 25 before? 25 A. Oh, I didn't come prepared to -- 2 (Pages 5 to 8) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 17 Page 19 1 entire file on this case, sir? 1 A. No. 2 A. Yeah. 2 Q. Do you have any transcripts of any 3 Q. Okay. Why don't you read into the record 3 testimony given in any case as an expert witness? 4 what you have. 4 A. Yes. 5 A. I have my expert report, a printout of an 5 Q. And where do you keep those transcripts? 6 e-mail about this meeting and where I was to report 6 A. At my office. 7 this morning. I have the three -- three or four 7 Q. And how many are there? 8 articles that I referenced in my report, "Assessment 8 A. Oh, ten or twelve, I guess. 9 of Mortality in the Construction Industry" by 9 Q. Do you keep them in a file somewhere? 10 Robinson et al.; "Quantitative Risks of Mesothelioma 10 A. Yes. 11 in Lung Cancer in Relation to Asbestos Exposure" by 11 Q. All right. I request copies of those 12 Hodgson and Darton. I have defendant Georgia 12 transcripts. 13 Pacific's Amended Response to Plaintiff's First Set 13 A. Even those relating to things other than 14 of Master Interrogatories in a case that was in 14 asbestos? 15 Fulton County, Georgia, which just sets forth some of 15 Q. Yes, sir. 16 Georgia Pacific's information on their products. 16 A. Okay. 17 I have Notice to take Oral Deposition, a 17 Q. Do you have any videotapes or other 18 videotaped deposition of Howard Bird, and then four 18 educational materials or instruction that you relied 19 volumes of his depositions. Interrogatories to be 19 upon in forming your opinion in this case? 20 answered by plaintiffs. And this is from your firm. 20 A. No, not in this case. 21 Oh, I guess it's the complaint. 21 Q. Have you prepared any exhibits that you 22 That's what I have. 22 intend to use to illustrate your testimony at trial? 23 Q. Okay. And is that the sum total of your 23 A. No. 24 file on this case? 24 Q. Tell me what you generally do day to day 25 A. At my office I probably have an invoice or 25 in your job. Page 18 Page 20 1 two that I sent. 1 A. I have two major clients that I do general 2 Q. Other than the invoices at your office, is 2 industrial hygiene surveys for, actual field work, 3 there anything else? 3 Union Pacific Railroad and ConAgra Foods. At present 4 A. I think that's it. I think that's it. 4 I would say about 10 to 20 percent of my time over a 5 Q. Did you prepare any other documents in 5 year would be involved in legal cases, and then, you 6 relation to this case? 6 know, other smaller clients that come and go. But 7 A. No. 7 the majority of my time is actual practicing 8 Q. Okay. Have you attended any continuing 8 industrial hygiene. 9 education courses over the last five years related to 9 Q. What's a typical day for you? 10 the subject of asbestos? 10 A. Well, in the field, if I'm doing a field 11 A. Yes. 11 study for either the railroad or ConAgra, it's 12 Q. Which ones? 12 getting up early and spending a long day making 13 A. Well, I try to attend the sort of major 13 measurements and getting home late. Around the 14 industrial hygiene conference, the American 14 office I would be writing reports. In the case of 15 Industrial Hygiene Conference and exposition that 15 legal cases, I would be reading materials sent and 16 they hold each year; and also the Professional 16 perhaps writing reports. 17 Industrial Hygiene conference, -PIH conference, they 17 Q. Tell me a little about your personal 18 call it. 18 background. 19 Q. Are you a member of the AIHA? 19 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 20 A. Yes. 20 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) You can answer. 21 Q. Okay. How long have you been a member? 21 A. Would you like my education? Would you 22 A. Oh, gosh, since probably 19 -- early 80's. 22 like -- 23 Q. Have you authored any speeches or 23 Q. Yeah, where you grew up, your family 24 writings, published or unpublished, concerning the 24 background. Just so I know. 25 subject of asbestos and disease? 25 A. I'm a Salt Lake City native, born and 5 (Pages 17 to 20) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 21 Page 23 1 raised here. Did my education here. I'm married, 1 reports that were sent out to GSA. 2 have two children. I like to -- 2 Q. And where are those reports kept as part 3 Q. How old are they? 3 of your business records? 4 A. My daughter is 20 and my son is 17. 4 A. They might be in our oldest archives. And 5 Q. Have you ever provided advice to clients 5 a lot of this work was back in the 80's. We still do 6 on how to protect building occupants from exposure to 6 some GSA work that I have not been involved over the 7 asbestos? 7 last probably five or six years in those sorts of 8 A. We have. We've done a lot of work for the 8 surveys. 9 federal government for the General Services 9 Q. Okay. So if I were to make a request for 10 Administration, and they have any number of federal 10 the old reports relating to asbestos that you gave to 11 buildings and courthouses and so on that contain 11 the GSA, is that something you'd be able to get? 12 asbestos materials. We have certainly worked with 12 A. If you'll provide the truck. 13 the maintenance staff, custodial staff to try to show 13 Q. Okay. 14 them how not to disturb materials, how to assure that 14 A. It's very voluminous. 15 these materials are in good condition and that any 15 Q. Okay. Have you ever counseled clients 16 problems with those materials would be reported 16 that -- whether it's the GSA or any other clients, 17 promptly so that steps could be taken to clean up any 17 that chrysotile asbestos is not capable of causing 18 problems. 18 cancer? 19 Q. Have you done any work in connection with 19 A. No, I don't believe I've said that to 20 advice on asbestos abatement? 20 clients. 21 A. Yes, yes. We do a lot of abatement 21 Q. Have you ever counseled clients that 22 management at our firm. I've done some of it. 22 chrysotile asbestos is not capable of causing 23 That's kind of a separate division of our company, if 23 mesothelioma? 24 you will. But I've certainly been involved in some 24 A. I have counseled them that it's quite 25 of those abatement projects. 25 improbable but not that it's impossible. Page 22 Page 24 1 Q. Have you personally given advice to people 1 Q. Have you told, you and your company told 2 occupying federal buildings as it relates to the 2 the GSA that in your opinion chrysotile asbestos 3 subject of asbestos exposure? 3 cannot cause mesothelioma? 4 A. Mostly in the sense of maintenance 4 A. They have not asked us that question, and 5 personnel and building, you know, personnel who would 5 I don't believe we've ever provided such guidance. 6 be working in the physical plant where the problems 6 Q. Would that be something you would be 7 typically are. We have occasionally been asked to 7 willing to do, tell the federal government that you 8 give sort of general lectures, ifyou will, to 8 do not believe that chrysotile asbestos causes 9 general office occupants who have had concerns about 9 mesothelioma? 10 these issues. 10 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. 11 Q. Okay. And do you put those kinds of 11 THE WITNESS: Well, I answered that 12 things in reports, or are they just oral? 12 previously. I had said it's improbable, not 13 A. Yeah, they were oral. And there may have 13 impossible. 14 been a document that was prepared for the GSA. We've 14 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) When you counsel the 15 certainly done management plans for both government 15 federal government as a client, would you be willing 16 buildings, schools and so on for how to keep track of 16 to tell them that in your opinion chrysotile asbestos 17 asbestos issues and take care of -- 17 does not cause mesothelioma? 18 Q. Now, when you did the work for the GSA, 18 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 19 was that -- I think you said -- was that put into a 19 THE WITNESS: I don't counsel the federal 20 report? 20 government on these issues. If they were to ask me, 21 A. Well, yeah. Reports -- we did a lot of 21 I would say what I said before, that chrysotile is 22 what are called Facility Safety and Health 22 unlikely to cause mesothelioma and that -- 23 Inspections that involve all hazards and issues in a 23 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Are you aware that 24 building from an occupational perspective. And those 24 the E.P.A. is of the opinion in written documents 25 inspections were certainly turned into written 25 that chrysotile can cause mesothelioma? 6 (Pages 21 to 24) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 33 Page 35 1 surveys that we do. 1 chrysotile? 2 Q. Okay. Why do you do that? 2 A. Well, again, the regulations don't specify 3 A. Because it's required by regulation that 3 fiber type, so you have to do it for any type of 4 we be aware of those materials. It would be a 4 fiber. 5 violation of regulation to demolish walls and drywall 5 Q. Have you ever tested tape joint compound 6 joint compound that contains more than 1 percent 6 on walls that contained a fiber type other than 7 asbestos. 7 chrysotile? 8 Q. Okay. And in any of your testing, have 8 A. I personally have not. I would have to 9 you found that the drywall joint compound contained 9 talk to our -- the folks that have done the most of 10 more than 1 percent asbestos? 10 this to see if they've ever seen it. But I'm not 11 A. I think so, yeah. We've seen, you know, 11 aware of any. 12 1, 2, 3 percent at times. 12 Q. Do people who are doing the abatement of 13 Q. And when you find in your testing that the 13 the joint compound on the walls that contain 14 drywall joint compound contained 1 percent or more 14 asbestos, do they have to wear special suits? 15 asbestos, what recommendation do you make as an 15 A. Yes. They wear protective clothing and, 16 industrial hygienist as to what, if any, protections 16 of course, respirators. 17 are necessary in removing those walls? 17 Q. Well, do the special suits have hoods? 18 A. Well, depending -- yeah. If you're 18 A. Yes. 19 removing the walls, if you're going to disturb that 19 Q. They look essentially like white space 20 material or demolish that material, you have to use 20 suits? 21 full abatement techniques. 21 A. Bunny suits, we call them. 22 Q. Which includes what? 22 Q. You call them bunny suits? 23 A. Well, negative air containment, workers 23 A. Yes. 24 wearing appropriate personal protective equipment, 24 Q. The people who are removing the chrysotile 25 proper bagging. 25 asbestos, for example, that was installed during the Page 34 Page 36 1 Q. Hold on. I'm writing them down. 1 1970's, the protection that they require in order to 2 Protective equipment, okay. 2 make sure they're protected are space suits with 3 A. Yeah, including respirators, of course. 3 respirators, right? 4 Q. Okay. 4 MR. HOOPER: Objection to form. 5 A. Of course, these people have to be trained 5 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 6 and certified to do such work. 6 THE WITNESS: It's not a space suit, it's 7 Q. Trained, okay. 7 a Tyvek disposable fabric material. 8 A. The materials have to be properly bagged, 8 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Yes, sir. And the 9 removed and disposed. And then appropriate cleanup, 9 reason you have disposable fabric material is to make 10 final cleanup, and then final testing of the areas 10 sure that none of the tape joint compound containing 11 that were abated. 11 asbestos leaves the contaminated area. True? 12 Q. Okay. So you have -- I'm sorry. You said 12 A. I'm sorry -- 13 negative -- what was the first thing you said? 13 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. 14 A. Negative air containment. So you put up 14 A. -- I didn't follow that. 15 plastic sheeting throughout the room. 15 Q. Well, one of the reasons you've given for 16 Q. Okay. 16 special clothing is so they don't bring that asbestos 17 A. You put a big device, an air handling 17 from that joint compound home to the families. True? 18 device that has high efficiency filters that draws 18 A. No, no. Not true. 19 air out of the space that you're working on, removes 19 Q. So it would be okay, in your opinion, for 20 all fibers, all asbestos, and then pushes clean air 20 them to bring that tape joint compound asbestos home 21 out of the space. And that's set up so that any air 21 to their families? 22 leakage is into the space and nothing is getting away 22 A. That is absolutely not what I said. 23 from the abatement job. 23 Q. Okay, that's what I'm asking. Do you 24 Q. Okay. And would you do that whether or 24 believe in your opinion as an industrial hygienist 25 not the fiber type that you found with asbestos was a 25 that it would be prudent and safe for the people who 9 (Pages 33 to 36) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 37 Page 39 1 are doing the abatement work of the tape joint 1 Now, we have had other situations, unusual 2 compound to wear the same clothing home to their 2 abatementjobs where we have been in -- I remember an 3 families? 3 electrical vault at one location that had a good deal 4 A. No, and that would be a violation of 4 of amosite insulation. There was no possibility of 5 regulations. 5 using water because of the electrical aspect of that 6 Q. Yes. And what are the procedures that are 6 room. You'd have a big short if you used any water. 7 used to make sure -- by the way, do you know -- 7 We had to work -- we had to abate amosite and we had 8 scratch that. Do you know what -- scratch that. 8 to work it dry, and in that situation we put people 9 Somebody who is performing an abatement operation for 9 in supplied air respirators. I would consider that 10 tape joint compound, would you consider that a 10 as significant exposure. I'll use the word for that 11 significant potential exposure? 12 MR. SCHMIeDeR: Objection to form. 11 situation, because we had amosite and it was dry. 12 And that was why we put people in supplied air 13 THE WITNESS: "Significant" is a loaded 13 respirators, which go beyond the normal requirement 14 word. I don't know how to answer -- I would have to 14 for a half face respirator that you would use in a 15 have your definition of significant. 15 drywalljob. So there are jobs and there are jobs. 16 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, what does 16 Q. Okay, let me go back. In your report you 17 significant mean to you, sir, as an industrial 17 used the word "intermittent." My question to you is, 18 hygienist in relation to exposure to asbestos? 18 is the kind of exposure that someone abating tape 19 A. It means many things. There's 19 joint compound does on a single event intermittent? 20 significance -- statistical significance is the main 20 A. It is intermittent in the sense that 21 thing that comes to mind. Other than that, it's just 21 they're not always in there. There will be times 22 a word that we use in general language as well. And 22 when they're out of the containment, there will be 23 we struggle with the definition of that word. 23 times when they're showering out. So yes, it is 24 Q. In describing exposures to asbestos, do 24 intermittent. 25 you ever use the word "significant"? 25 Q. All right. So for the person who Page 38 Page 40 1 A. I'm very careful about that word. 1 encounters intermittent exposure during the abatement 2 Q. I mean, you don't use it or you do use it? 2 of drywall, you provide them negative air 3 A. I try not to use it. 3 containment; true? 4 Q. Okay. And why is that? 4 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 5 A. Because it's a loaded word. 5 THE WITNESS: Yeah. I specified the 6 Q. Do you use the word "intermittent"? 6 requirements for abatement of asbestos-containing 7 A. Sure. 7 materials. 8 Q. Okay. Would the exposure that occurs to 8 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, do you disagree 9 somebody abating tape joint compound be considered 9 with any of the requirements? 10 intermittent? 10 A. No, no. They're required by law. 11 A. If you're in an abatement condition, if 11 Q. No, but do you agree that they are 12 you're in a room, say, that has been taped off and 12 appropriate requirements, in your professional 13 sealed with plastic, any work within that room, it 13 opinion as an industrial hygienist, that they are an 14 has to be assumed that there is some level of 14 appropriate requirement to protect people abating 15 exposure. The exposure varies depending on what's 15 tape joint compound? 16 being done at any given moment, varies widely. But 16 A. Yes. They're appropriate in the sense 17 overall it's fairly low. 17 that, you know, to have any other sort of regulations 18 In that situation we would put workers in 18 would invite chaos. Other air contaminants that OSHA 19 with, say, a half mask HEPA filtered respirator. We 19 regulates, the approach is keep the levels below the 20 would work wet. We would do everything we can to 20 permissible exposure limits, and we won't require 21 keep exposures very low. 21 people to wear respirators. 22 Regardless of what the average exposures 22 To take that approach with asbestos 23 are in that room, even if they are below the OSHA 23 abatement would be very chaotic. You'd have all 24 permissible exposure limit, it is required by OSHA 24 sorts of people doing all sorts of things that would 25 regulations that respirators be worn at all times. 25 not be protective of workers. There would be 10 (Pages 37 to 40) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 41 Page 43 1 situations where there might be problems. So I think 1 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 2 OSHA decided to make this an ironclad requirement for 2 THE WITNESS: No. You'd have to follow 3 all asbestos abatements regardless of the air levels 3 the standard. You have to follow the standard. 4 that are measured. 4 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) And you believe in 5 Q. All right. Well, I guess -- here's my 5 that standard? 6 question. Putting aside the OSHA regulations, in 6 A. I believe it's a real standard that has 7 your opinion as a trained professional industrial 7 very real consequences if you don't follow it in 8 hygienist, what procedures should be employed by a 8 terms of breaking the law. 9 worker charged with abating asbestos-containing joint 9 Q. But does it also have real consequences in 10 compound from drywall? 10 terms of potential risks to health and safety? 11 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 11 A. It depends upon the conditions. It 12 THE WITNESS: They should follow the 12 depends on the percentage of asbestos and the type of 13 requirements of the standard. 13 asbestos and the extent to which it is released into 14 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) I'm saying -- put the 14 the air. In other words, it depends on the exposure 15 standards aside, sir. I'm asking, based upon your 15 with regard to health. 16 training as an industrial hygienist, what protections 16 Q. Have you ever done any testing of exposure 17 should someone use who is abating tape joint compound 17 levels when mixing asbestos-containing joint 18 in order to protect their personal health? 18 compound? 19 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 19 A. I have not personally. 20 THE WITNESS: I think I've already 20 Q. Has your company ever done it? 21 answered that several times. I agree -- 21 A. I don't believe so. 22 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Please answer the 22 Q. Have you ever conducted any tests or 23 question. 23 studies of exposure levels when sanding 24 A. I went through the steps you would take, 24 asbestos-containing joint compound? 25 and I can repeat them all again, but you have them. 25 A. I don't believe so. Page 42 Page 44 1 You know them. 1 Q. Have you ever done any testing of exposure 2 Q. This is what I want to -- this is what I 2 levels when sweeping up asbestos-containing joint 3 want to be clear on. Putting what OSHA requires 3 compound? 4 aside, in your opinion as a trained industrial 4 A. Well, only to the extent that there might 5 hygienist, what steps are necessary to safeguard the 5 be some measurements -- but this would be in 6 health of a worker whose job it is to abate tape 6 containment under abatement conditions, so it would 7 joint compound that contains asbestos? 7 not be the same as, you know, the exposures that 8 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 8 might occur during application of those materials. 9 THE WITNESS: You would take appropriate 9 Q. Okay. Well, in the abatement process, is 10 steps to assure that their exposures are less than 10 part of the process to clean up the material that is 11 the standards in effect at the time. 11 taken down? 12 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Okay. And tell me 12 A. Yes, absolutely. 13 specifically what those steps are. 13 Q. Does that in any way resemble the cleanup 14 A. The simplest way to do it is the sort of 14 of the process of a room after asbestos-containing 15 brute force method of the standard, which is to do 15 joint compound is applied? 16 negative air containment, wear respirators, wear 16 A. Not typically. Because number one, you're 17 protective clothing, and the entire list of things 17 working wet. Those materials should be like mud in 18 I've mentioned two or three times now. 18 an abatement job, and you have the flow of air 19 Q. Okay. Would you ever -- as an experienced 19 through the system. So it would be different. 20 industrial hygienist, would you ever counsel an 20 Q. Okay. Before the product is wet down, are 21 abatement worker who is charged with removing tape 21 the conditions of the abated joint compound similar 22 joint compound not to protect themselves with 22 in any way to the conditions that exist with the tape 23 negative air and all the other things that you've 23 joint compound after it's applied? 24 discussed because the asbestos that's being abated is 24 A. No. Because in an abatement job the first 25 chrysotile? 25 thing you do is start applying water before you even 11 (Pages 41 to 44) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 45 Page 47 1 disturb the material. 1 Longo's studies ofjoint compound, his results have 2 Q. Okay. So when cleaning up joint compound 2 been consistent with other published reliable 3 that's been abated, you have to wet it down? 3 studies. Do you agree? 4 A. Well, that would be good practice. 4 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 5 Q. Would you also have to wear a respirator? 5 THE WITNESS: I need to look back at that 6 A. Again, you have to wear a respirator the 6 before I make that statement. The numbers he came up 7 entire time you're in the containment regardless of 7 with are not coming to mind right at the moment. 8 what you're doing. 8 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, did you take 9 Q. When you're cleaning up asbestos- 9 any exception to the conclusions reached by Longo in 10 containing joint compound, would you have to wear 10 the study that you looked at -- 11 special clothing? 11 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 12 A. Well, you know, that's an interesting 12 Q. -- related to tape joint compound? 13 question, because the important thing about the 13 A. I haven't looked at Longo for a while, so 14 containment process is the shower. The guys are 14 I would have to pull that study out and look at it 15 going to take all these things they're wearing inside 15 more carefully. 16 containment off and put them in a drum, and they're 16 Q. As an industrial hygienist, are you 17 going to go through a shower before they get out of 17 familiar with something known as the Tyndall effect? 18 the containment. You know, essentially, from a 18 A. Yes. 19 health perspective, as long as you wore the 19 Q. What is the Tyndall effect? 20 respirator, you could work with probably no clothes 20 A. It's an effect that Longo et al. like to 21 at all. It wouldn't make any difference in terms of 21 use to make clouds of aerosol very visible to the 22 fibers getting away. Everybody has to shower out and 22 human eye. 23 essentially strip down before they leave. So what 23 Q. Well, the Tyndall effect is not something 24 they wear within containment is kind of a matter of 24 that Longo dreamed up, right? 25 convenience and cost and protection against physical 25 A. Well, his use of it is not any kind of Page 46 Page 48 1 trauma, that sort of thing. 1 scientific measurement. It's for demonstration 2 Q. Okay. Have you ever -- are you familiar 2 purposes. 3 with any studies concerning the mixing of 3 Q. But the Tyndall effect is something that 4 asbestos-containing joint compound? 4 has been utilized or recognized by industrial 5 A. Yes, the sort of historical or simulation 5 hygienists historically, correct? 6 studies that we talked about earlier. 6 A. I wouldn't say that. 7 Q. That would be Nicholson and Verma? 7 Q. So an industrial hygienist has never 8 A. Yeah. 8 relied upon the Tyndall effect as an indication of 9 Q. And Longo? 9 whether exposure was significant or not? Is that 10 A. Right. And -- 10 what you're saying? 11 Q. Who else? 11 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 12 A. There was a study by Clayton. There are 12 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 13 certain studies that were done by some industries. I 13 THE WITNESS: We have a number of 14 forget the names of those. U.S. Gypsum I think had a 14 instruments that make use of light scattering to 15 study done. That may have been the Clayton study. 15 measure aerosol in air. There's a device called an 16 You can look back at those. You know, and Longo more 16 integrating nephelometer that essentially measures 17 recently has done a study, simulation study. 17 the reflectance and scattering of light particles 18 Q. And do you find Longo's study reliable? 18 within an instrument. That's a fairly good machine 19 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 19 and it gives you reasonable data. You don't just 20 THE WITNESS: His data on that study 20 shine a bright light in a room and expect to have any 21 seemed to fall more or less in line with others. 21 kind of quantification of airborne levels of aerosol. 22 He's done some studies that he's been kind of an 22 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) But you agree when 23 outlier, but I don't recall that he's too far out of 23 you shine a light in a room it does show -- it does 24 the norm on the joint compound studies. 24 show dust that you can't otherwise see with the naked 25 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) All right. So on 25 eye? 12 (Pages 45 to 48) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 53 Page 55 1 people potentially exposed to their joint compound? 1 and/or sponsored by the very companies who were 2 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 2 making the tape joint compound, true? 3 THE WITNESS: Well, I don't know. That 3 A. Correct. 4 seems hypothetical to me. I don't know what occurred 4 Q. If you were an industrial hygienist in the 5 with the study. 5 field in 1972, would you have given credence to a 6 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, assuming the 6 study that was done by the makers of the product and 7 study was not published and not provided to any 7 done in conjunction with Clayton? 8 workers who were using their joint compound, do you 8 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 9 believe that would have been good public health as a 9 THE WITNESS: Yeah, if it were done by a 10 trained industrial hygienist? 10 reliable contractor, in this case Clayton, and on 11 A. Well, I don't believe their study showed 11 assessing and looking at the study it appeared that 12 anything different from the other studies that were 12 proper techniques had been used, then yes. 13 published, so I'm not sure how it has any effect. 13 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) When you looked at 14 Q. Well, the other studies weren't published, 14 the study did you see anything in it that would make 15 right, until 1975 or 1976? 15 it unreliable? 16 A. Some of them weren't even done until then. 16 A. I don't recall that I did. 17 Q. Right. But this study was done actually 17 Q. Okay. So my question to you is, would it 18 in 1972, correct? 18 have been helpful to the public health, in your 19 A. I would have to look back at it. I don't 19 opinion, to have that study published for industrial 20 remember the date. 20 hygienists like yourself to review back in 1972, 21 Q. Well, let's assume it was 1972, 1973, and 21 1973? 22 it was the first such study done. Do you believe 22 A. Well, I'm not sure it would have hurt 23 that it would have been helpful from a public health 23 anything, and I'm not sure it would have changed 24 perspective to have that study published? 24 techniques or approaches to the problem. 25 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 25 Q. What do you mean by that? Page 54 Page 56 1 THE WITNESS: I don't know that it showed 1 A. Well, if indeed it showed levels generally 2 anything that suggested overexposures to the 2 in compliance with the existing standards of the 3 permissible exposure limits at that time, so I'm not 3 time, it probably would not have much effect on 4 sure how it would have changed things. 4 changing people's opinion about how to do those 5 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, sir, if the 5 things. 6 study showed that people who were sanding tape joint 6 Q. All right. But if the study showed that 7 compound were being exposed to asbestos, would that 7 there were -- there were practices for dealing with 8 have been important from a public health perspective? 8 tape joint compound that created exposures above the 9 A. It depends on the levels and how they 9 permissible levels, would that have been something 10 compared to the standards of the existing time. 10 that would be important to have been published back 11 Q. Well, let's assume that it was above the 11 at that time? 12 standards of the existing time. Would that have been 12 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 13 important to publish? 14 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 13 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure it did show 14 that; but in general, if you have studies that are 15 THE WITNESS: It depends on the study and 15 showing overexposures, that would be good to know. 16 how good a simulation it was of what is occurring out 16 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) So it would have been 17 in the industry. 17 important from a public health perspective to be 18 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Okay. Well, this was 18 published? 19 a study that was done in conjunction with Clayton, 19 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 20 correct? 20 THE WITNESS: I said "if." I qualified 21 A. As far as I know, yes. 21 that. 22 Q. They were a reliable and respected 22 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) The qualification is, 23 environmental hygiene organization, true? 23 sir, if the Clayton study that was done in 24 A. Yes. 24 conjunction with the Gypsum Association showed that 25 Q. And it was a study that was conducted 25 people who were dealing with asbestos-containing 14 (Pages 53 to 56) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 57 Page 59 1 joint compound could be exposed over the permissible 1 in this case that I was not going to be able to come 2 limits, that would have been a study that should have 2 up with a real quantitative assessment of exposure 3 been published; true? 3 for Bird, because there was so little information 4 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 4 about times and the actual exposure situations. So I 5 THE WITNESS: If your premise is true, and 5 didn't try to use any numerical data on these various 6 as I just said a moment ago, any industrial hygiene 6 operations. 7 study that shows overexposures against eight-hour TWA 7 Q. Are you aware that there were studies 8 permissible exposure limits, that's a good thing to 8 published by Selikoff indicating that there were 9 have out, to get that knowledge out into the 9 exposures in adjacent rooms where joint -- 10 industry, sure. 10 environments where joint compound was being used, 11 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) So it should have 11 asbestos joint compound was being used? 12 been published? 12 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 13 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 13 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I'm aware of his 14 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 14 study. It's very hard to understand what they did in 15 THE WITNESS: I answered it before, I 15 that study, how far away they were and what the air 16 think. 16 currents were and so on, but I know that was part of 17 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Do you know what an 17 his study or role. 18 excursion limit is? 18 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Okay. Did you 19 A. Yes. Yes, I do. 19 disagree with any of that? 20 Q. What's an excursion limit? 20 A. I find it surprising based on other data 21 A. It's a limit -- it's kind of specific to 21 that has come along since that time. 22 asbestos. It's a 30-minute exposure level. In the 22 Q. What other data? 23 general parlance we have a thing called the 23 A. Well, the other studies, Verma and some of 24 short-term exposure limit, which is normally a 24 these other folks. 25 15-minute exposure. So in other words, you're 25 Q. Did Verma test, to your knowledge, what Page 58 Page 60 1 specifying a period of time less than the full 1 kind of exposures would happen to people in adjacent 2 eight-hour shift and you're allowing a higher 2 rooms where the joint compound was not applied? 3 standard to exist during that period of time as 3 A. I don't recall. It's a situation that's 4 compared to the eight-hour permissible exposure 4 going to be highly variable. 5 limit, and you're trying essentially to control peak 5 Q. Okay. Did you review any documents from 6 exposures or short-term exposures by that mechanism. 6 Georgia Pacific relating to their asbestos-containing 7 Q. Do you know whether the Clayton study 7 joint compound? 8 showed that peak exposures when dealing with 8 A. Well, the document that I referenced in my 9 asbestos-containing joint compound were exceeded? 9 report that just gives some basic information on what 10 A. I don't believe there was an excursion 10 the products were, when they were made, when they 11 limit at the time that study was done. I would have 11 contained asbestos, that sort of thing. 12 to look back at that. 12 Q. Other than the answers to interrogatories 13 Q. You indicated that this study by Clayton 13 that you reference in your report, have you reviewed 14 was one of the studies you relied upon in reaching 14 any documents of Georgia Pacific or concerning 15 your opinion. True? 15 Georgia Pacific relating to tape joint compound? 16 A. In this case? 16 A. It seems like there was one other document 17 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 17 that was very similar to what's in this one that I 18 THE WITNESS: Yes. 18 cited. It wasn't any different information about 19 A. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) No, I didn't cite it 19 products. 20 as part of my report in this case. 20 Q. Did you interview any witnesses or 21 Q. Well, I thought you indicated that there 21 employees of Georgia Pacific concerning their tape 22 were a number of studies that dealt with exposures or 22 joint compound? 23 potential exposures to tape joint compound that were 23 A. No. 24 relevant to this case. Did you say that? 24 Q. Did you review any depositions of any 25 A. Not exactly. Because I concluded early on 25 employees of or former employees of Georgia Pacific 15 (Pages 57 to 60) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 61 Page 63 1 relating to their tape joint compound? 1 Q. Do you know whether the labeling ever 2 A. I'm trying to remember if early on I might 2 mentioned the word "asbestos"? 3 have seen one. If I did, the name doesn't come to 3 A. Yes, it did. Again, according to this 4 mind. 4 interrogatory, after 1974. 5 Q. Is that something that you maintained or 5 Q. Okay. Do you know what it said? 6 is that something you discarded? 6 A. Let me turn to that. Somewhere in the 7 A. I don't believe I have any such document 7 file. Which product are you interested in? They all 8 at this point. I'm vague on that. I'm sorry. 8 have a section in this document. 9 Q. No problem. Did you examine any packaging 9 Q. Well, let me ask the question this way. 10 of Georgia Pacific joint compound at any point in 10 Maybe it will be easier. Do you know whether the 11 time? 11 labeling on the Redi-Mix joint compound relating to 12 A. I have a photograph that shows various 12 asbestos, do you know where that appears on the can 13 bags and boxes and containers of products. I'm not 13 or bucket? 14 sure exactly when it was taken, but it was -- I think 14 A. Oh, no. Not exactly, no. 15 it represented the period of time we're interested in 15 Q. Do you know whether it appeared on the 16 here. 16 front, the top, or the side? 17 Q. Who supplied that photograph to you? 17 MR. SCHMIEDER: Object to form. 18 A. Mr. Hooper. 18 THE WITNESS: I do not. 19 Q. And Mr. Hooper is who? 19 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Do you have an 20 A. Jim Hooper with -- 20 opinion as an industrial hygienist as to where a 21 MR. HOOPER: The Georgia Pacific lawyer 21 label should appear so as to inform the user about 22 sitting beside him. 22 whether that product is potentially dangerous or not? 23 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) All right. Okay. 23 A. Well, the general rules of labeling are 24 And when was that photograph supplied to you? 24 that to be effective they need to be visible and they 25 A. I believe it was in the Kerns case. 25 need to be readily noticed by the user. So other Page 62 Page 64 1 Q. And do you have a copy of that photograph 1 than that, specifically, you know, which side of the 2 at your office? 2 bag do you put it on? As long as it's of sufficient 3 A. Yes. 3 size to be seen, the user would be likely to 4 Q. I'll make a request for that photograph. 4 encounter that in using the product. 5 A. Okay. 5 Q. Okay. Now, where would it be better to 6 Q. Did you ever physically, other than a 6 put a warning label relating to asbestos, in your 7 photograph, see actual packaging of Georgia Pacific 7 opinion -- 8 joint compound? 8 MR. SCHMIEDER: Object to form. 9 A. Well, except for what they sell now, but 9 Q. -- the top of the can or the front of the 10 none of the old stuff, no. 10 can? 11 Q. None of the old stuff. Have you ever been 11 A. Now, you're talking about a can -- 12 given any bags or cans or buckets of 12 Q. Can or a bucket. 13 asbestos-containing joint compound for testing? 13 A. Well -- 14 A. No. 14 MR. SCHMIEDER: Object to form. 15 Q. Are you familiar with where -- with the 15 A. -- normally you don't see any labeling on 16 labeling of the asbestos-containing joint compound 16 the top. Even today, by today's standards, it's 17 sold by Georgia Pacific? 17 normally on the side of the container with all the 18 A. Somewhat. 18 other writing and information. 19 Q. When you say "somewhat," what do you mean 19 Q. Where would it be better if you wanted to 20 by that? 20 alert somebody to a hazard of a product to put a 21 A. Well, I have the photograph that shows 21 warning about asbestos? On the front or on the top, 22 various examples. I am by no means an expert in how 22 in your opinion as an industrial hygienist? 23 the labeling has been over the years except to the 23 A. I would say either. The front or the top 24 extent that it's either in that photograph or listed 24 would be good. 25 in the document I cited. 25 Q. All right. Would it be better to put the 16 (Pages 61 to 64) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 65 Page 67 1 warning about the dangers of asbestos on the front or 1 today that are quite clear about the use of signal 2 on the side of the can? 2 words -- you know, danger, warning, caution, that 3 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 3 sort of thing. Those standards have developed over 4 THE WITNESS: It would be better to put it 4 the years and are pretty well codified now. There 5 where it's likely to be seen. I don't know what the 5 are ANSI standards for labeling. There are OSHA 6 difference is. 6 requirements for labeling. 7 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, is it more 7 Q. Do you agree with me, sir, that from an 8 likely to be seen on the front of the can or on the 8 industrial hygiene perspective the signal words 9 side of the can or bucket? 9 "danger," "caution," and "warning" have been 10 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 10 recognized since at least the 1960's? 11 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) In your opinion. 11 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 12 A. I don't know that there's a difference. 12 THE WITNESS: I am not a labeling expert, 13 You'd normally put it by the directions, I would 13 so I can't answer that. 14 think, for use. 14 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) In your training as 15 Q. If I were somebody who had used joint 15 an industrial hygienist, tell me what your 16 compound on many occasions, would you agree with me 16 understanding is of when you use the words "caution" 17 that there would be little need for me to go back and 17 versus "label" versus "warning." 18 read the direction each and every time that I was 18 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 19 going to use the joint compound? 20 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 19 THE WITNESS: You said "label." I don't 20 think that's what you meant to say. 21 THE WITNESS: I would agree that people 21 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) When you want to 22 who use the product frequently are not going to read 22 alert -- when you're using a -- scratch that. When 23 anything. 23 you are using a -- when you're trying to determine 24 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) My question is, would 24 what is the proper signal word when it comes to 25 you agree with me that if I had used the product 25 relating a potential hazard, when do you use the Page 66 Page 68 1 before and was familiar with how to use the product, 1 words "warning" versus "caution" versus "danger"? 2 it would be unlikely that I would go back and re-read 2 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. 3 the directions every time I would go to apply the 3 THE WITNESS: I don't know that there's a 4 product? 4 clear-cut line between those, but danger is normally 5 A. That's probable. 5 for something that can cause rather immediate acute 6 Q. All right. And would you agree with me 6 effects, something that can knock you down and kill 7 that if I was trying to decide where to put a warning 7 you rather quickly. And then, you know, it lowers 8 for somebody who was using the product for multiple 8 down. Then warning is something that's less acutely 9 times, that the better place to put the warning would 9 hazardous; and caution, of course, something that you 10 be on the front or the top where it would be more 10 don't need to be quite as careful about. But that's 11 readily noticeable? 11 about all -- 12 A. I suppose. 12 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) In your opinion as an 13 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. 13 industrial hygienist trained in protecting public 14 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) You suppose? 14 health, is it more appropriate to use the 15 A. I suppose. 15 word "warning" or "caution" when you're talking about 16 Q. Okay. Because if I was somebody who had 16 exposure to a potential carcinogen? 17 used the product before or familiar with a product, 17 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. 18 it would be unlikely that I would go back to the side 18 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 19 of the can and read the directions. True? 19 THE WITNESS: You know, I'm trying to 20 A. I guess so. 20 remember back to that first OSHA standard for 21 Q. Okay. Now, does an industrial hygienist 21 asbestos that required the wording, and I don't 22 recognize the difference between using a caution 22 recall which they used on that first example label at 23 label and a warning label? 23 the moment. 24 A. Well, I think that -- I can't speak for 24 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) But I'm asking you, 25 all industrial hygienists, but there are standards 25 in your opinion as an industrial hygienist trained to 17 (Pages 65 to 68) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 69 Page 71 1 protect public health, what is the more appropriate 1 sure. 2 word to use, "caution" or "warning," when talking 2 Q. And what did the lawyer for Georgia 3 about potential exposure to a carcinogen? 4 MR. SChMiEDER: Objection to form. 3 Pacific tell you about the contents of the 4 asbestos-containing joint compound? 5 THE WITNESS: Well, I would use "warning" 5 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 6 over "caution" for a carcinogen. 6 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. 7 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Now, do you know 7 THE WITNESS: Well, as stated in my 8 whether Georgia Pacific used the words "warning" 8 report, it was normally -- you know, I think we said 9 or "caution" on its asbestos-containing joint 9 zero to 7 percent was kind of the range of content of 10 compound? 10 products during that period from I guess '65 through 11 A. I need to look into that. 11 the mid 70's. 12 Q. Would it matter to you from a public 12 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) But my question is 13 health perspective as to whether or not Georgia 13 specifically, what did the Georgia Pacific lawyers 14 Pacific used "warning" versus "caution" on its 14 tell you about the asbestos content of the Georgia 15 asbestos-containing joint compound? 15 Pacific joint compound? 16 A. I don't think it would make much 16 MR. SCHMIEDER: Same objection. 17 difference from a public health point of view, nor 17 THE WITNESS: Well, that, you know, there 18 probably from a worker health. I'm not sure that 18 were varying percentages, usually in the low, you 19 those subtleties have any effect on workers' 19 know, 3, 4, 5 percent area; that starting about 72, 20 behavior. 20 '73 they began to work on asbestos-free substitutes 21 Q. Do you know -- and you've never conducted 21 for those products and that they phased them in kind 22 any studies on the effect of warnings on worker 22 of one at a time as they were able to develop 23 behavior, true? 23 products that worked without asbestos that worked 24 A. No. I'm not a warnings expert. 24 well, then the asbestos started to come out of these 25 Q. Okay. Now, you do comment on the 25 products. Page 70 Page 72 1 likelihood of seeing warnings in your report; true? 1 The other -- 2 A. Yeah, to the extent that Bird had not 2 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Sir, were you told by 3 mentioned seeing warning signs on the products that 3 Georgia Pacific that in fact in 1970 a decision was 4 he used. 4 made by executives to get the asbestos out of the 5 Q. But it could very been possible that Bird 5 joint compound? Do you recall that? 6 did not read directions on the side where warnings 6 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 7 could have been placed. True? 7 THE WITNESS: I forget the dates, but I do 8 A. That's possible. 8 recall seeing that there was a decision that they 9 Q. All right. Now, and the reason he 9 would begin to remove asbestos from their products 10 wouldn't have seen directions on the side is if he's 10 before they were required to do so by law. 11 familiar with the product, there would be no reason 11 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) And sir, you're aware 12 to read the directions. True? 12 that it took seven years to remove the asbestos from 13 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 13 the Redi-Mix joint compound? You're aware of that? 14 THE WITNESS: Yeah, I can't speak to what 14 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 15 he would have done. I don't know how often he used 15 THE WITNESS: I don't know specifically 16 joint compound to -- didn't seem like it was that 16 about Redi-Mix. There were others that were asbestos 17 often. 17 free by '73, '74, and so on. 18 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Okay. Now, the 18 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Which others? 19 information you had on the content of the Georgia 19 A. Well, you know, I'd have to look through 20 Pacific joint compound, that was information that 20 one by one to find that. 21 came from the interrogatories that you referenced? 21 Q. Do you think it would have been good from 22 A. Yes. 22 a public health perspective to take seven years to 23 Q. Was that information that was related to 23 remove asbestos from the Redi-Mix joint compound when 24 you by the lawyer for Georgia Pacific? 24 there was a concern expressed by executives of 25 A. Well, I assume that's where I got it, 25 Georgia Pacific to get the asbestos out of the joint 18 (Pages 69 to 72) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 73 Page 75 1 compound? 1 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) And when you make 2 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 2 that statement, sir, what do you rely upon, there was 3 THE WITNESS: They were moving toward that 3 not much data to suggest that these people would not 4 goal, as I understand it, as best they could. There 4 be exposed to asbestos problems? 5 were problems with coming up with formulations that 5 A. You rely upon the literature of the time. 6 people liked and that they would buy. The 6 Q. And did you review that literature, sir? 7 professional drywallers didn't like the substitutes 7 A. Well, I've read a lot of Selikoff's stuff 8 as well, as I understand it. And it wasn't -- it 8 and materials from those times, yes, in other cases. 9 wasn't a simple problem to simply take it out. You 9 Q. So you have reviewed the literature that 10 had to come up with replacement materials; you had to 10 was available during the time that Georgia Pacific 11 prove that the product would work well. 11 was selling asbestos-containing joint compound? 12 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Where did you get all 12 A. To some extent, yes. 13 that information, sir? 13 Q. And you concluded based upon reviewing 14 A. Through information I have received in the 14 that literature that it was reasonable for Georgia 15 course of these various Georgia Pacific cases. 15 Pacific to take seven years to take the asbestos out 16 Q. Well, where did you get that? Because so 16 of the joint compound once they decided it was time 17 far you told me the only thing you looked at was 17 to do it? 18 interrogatory answers. Was all that information 18 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. 19 provided to you verbally by the Georgia Pacific 19 THE WITNESS: I'm saying that my 20 lawyers? 20 understanding of those times, and having lived 21 A. I mentioned one other document, and I need 21 through that time and probably having used a lot of 22 to try to find that. I know I have another one that 22 these same products myself, that there was not the 23 discusses this. 23 sense of urgency, the sense of danger, the clear-cut 24 Q. But you told me that that came -- that was 24 picture that this was causing disease to even workers 25 just another set of interrogatory answers. True? 25 who used this stuff all the time. There were no Page 74 Page 76 1 A. Well, there are other things. I'm trying 1 epidemiological studies. There still is not an 2 to remember. I know there was a report by Mort Corn 2 epidemiological study that shows increased rates of 3 that talked about some of this history. I haven't 3 mesothelioma or cancer in this cohort. 4 looked at that for some time. And I have been told 4 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) What cohort is that, 5 things through my counsel. I have asked those 5 sir? 6 questions as it's come up on specific cases. 6 A. The cohort of drywall installers. 7 Q. Just to be specific: Georgia Pacific's 7 Q. Why do you believe that drywall installers 8 lawyer is not your lawyer, right? 8 were the ones who used the asbestos-containing joint 9 A. Correct. I'm sorry. 9 compound? 10 Q. So the information that you're relating to 10 A. They used the most of it. 11 me about what Georgia Pacific did and the decisions 11 Q. How do you know that, sir? 12 it made to get asbestos out of joint compound, that 12 A. Because they do it day in and day out. 13 came from Georgia Pacific's lawyer, not your own 13 And as compared to -- to use my word again, 14 lawyer? 14 intermittent users, they had much more exposure. 15 A. Correct. 15 Q. Okay. Did painters use 16 Q. And do you believe that it's reasonable as 16 asbestos-containing joint compound? 17 an industrial hygienist to take seven years to remove 17 A. I can't speak to painters. I mean, what 18 a carcinogen from a product that would be used by a 18 is a painter? A painter might be a handyman who does 19 consumer when you have reason to believe that that 19 the whole thing. 20 product is potentially dangerous for public health? 21 mR. HOOPER: Object to form. 20 Q. I'm asking somebody as a trained -- a 21 painter. Did they -- as part of their job did they 22 THE WITNESS: It depends on the degree of 22 ever use asbestos-containing joint compound? 23 danger that is recognized at that point in time. 23 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 24 There was not much data to suggest that these types 24 THE WITNESS: I would think that if you've 25 of users of asbestos products were having problems. 25 been hired to paint a building or a house and you saw 19 (Pages 73 to 76) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 77 Page 79 1 imperfections in the wall, you would go ahead and 1 A. I agree with everything except the 2 slap up a little drywall compound to fill in those 2 product. 3 holes and problems before you would paint. 3 4 Q. (By MR. PLACITELLA) Do you know whether 4 Q. Is it an amphibole form of asbestos? A. Yes. I don't believe it's ever been a 5 members of the painters union as part of their job 5 commercial product. 6 regularly used asbestos-containing joint compound? 6 Q. Okay. Do you understand that Canadian 7 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. 7 chrysotile is contaminated with tremolite? 8 THE WITNESS: I do not. 8 9 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Do you know whether 9 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. THE WITNESS: That's a very broad 10 the members of the spacklers union as part of their 10 statement. And I believe there is data out there to 11 job use asbestos-containing joint compound? 11 show that it's quite variable, that typically it is 12 A. I've never heard of a spacklers union. 12 not contaminated with tremolite. 13 Q. Have ever you heard of the plasterers 13 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) What data 14 union? 14 specifically are you referring to, sir? 15 A. I am familiar with general job titles. 15 A. I will have to dig that up, but there have 16 And for example, the reference that I put in my 16 been a number of studies published over the last few 17 report to the NIOSH study by Robinson where he lists 17 years that have tried to get at that issue. 18 a great many different job titles related to 18 Q. Can you cite me any data as you sit here 19 construction. I'm not familiar with all the 19 today? 20 different unions out there. 20 A. No. 21 Q. Okay. And you don't know what any 21 Q. All right. Do you know whether or not the 22 particular union did as part of -- a member did as 22 Canadian chrysotile that went into the Georgia 23 part ofjob requirements. True? 23 Pacific joint compound was contaminated with 24 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 24 tremolite? 25 THE WITNESS: Well, that seemed like a 25 A. I don't know of objective data on that. I Page 78 Page 80 1 rather broad statement there. There are some unions 1 don't know that they would have sampled each batch of 2 I understand what they do quite well. But I don't 2 asbestos that they got in. I can't speak to that 3 know the ones you talked about, like spacklers versus 3 specifically. 4 painters versus whoever else. 4 Q. But my question is, as you sit here, do 5 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Are you aware of the 5 you know one way or the other whether the Canadian -- 6 sources of the asbestos that went into the Georgia 6 you do know that Canadian chrysotile went into the 7 Pacific joint compound? 7 Georgia Pacific joint compound; true? 8 A. Not entirely. My general understanding is 8 A. Well, I think so. Depending on the plant 9 that it was Canadian and U.S. sources, that they 9 that was manufacturing it. I think they had several 10 would get the material as cheaply as they could. And 10 plants. If they had something on the West Coast 11 there were plentiful supplies in both Canada, 11 they'd probably be using Union Carbide material. 12 California, other parts of North America. 12 It's going to vary with the plant. 13 Q. What is the basis for that information, 13 Q. Okay. Do you know whether the Canadian 14 sir? 14 chrysotile incorporated into the Georgia Pacific 15 A. Just what I've learned over the course of 15 joint compound was contaminated with tremolite? 16 the last ten years or so, looking at, you know, where 16 A. I don't know specifically, but I think 17 materials came from. I've seen some information on 17 it's unlikely based on the general data I've seen. 18 the stuff that Johns Manville purchased and 18 And also the fact that -- 19 CertainTeed and some other manufacturers like that. 19 Q. What data is that, sir? 20 Q. Okay. We'll get to that in a bit. 20 A. Well, and from our own experience. We've 21 Are you familiar with substance known as 21 sampled a great deal of joint compound over the 22 tremolite? 22 years, you know, taking bulk samples of in-place 23 A. Yes. 23 material, and we do see chrysotile asbestos. I don't 24 Q. Is tremolite an amphibole asbestos 24 know that we have a single sample where we've ever 25 product? 25 seen tremolite contaminants. 20 (Pages 77 to 80) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 81 Page 83 1 Q. Do you ever look for it? 1 A. Not yet. 2 A. They do look for it, yes. 2 Q. Have you ever asked Georgia Pacific to 3 Q. And what kind of magnification do you use? 3 test their joint compound that contained asbestos? 4 A. Well, I don't use it. We use certified 4 A. I don't know how much they have. I don't 5 asbestos laboratories. 5 know what's available. 6 Q. Well, do you use a transmission electron 6 Q. Have they ever provided you with any 7 microscope? SEM? What do you use? 7 tests? 8 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 8 A. Not that I recall as I sit here. 9 A. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) It varies. It 9 Q. Have you ever asked for any tests? 10 varies. 10 A. No. 11 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Do you have -- as you 11 Q. Okay. Do you know whether the Georgia 12 sit here today, can you tell me one way or the other 12 Pacific joint compound contain talc? 13 what is the methodology that your company uses to 13 A. I don't. 14 determine whether or not tremolite is in joint 14 Q. Do you know whether talc is contaminated 15 compound that you've removed? 15 with tremolite? 16 A. Well, we'd have to speak to the labs that 16 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 17 we use; but, you know, normally they start out with 17 THE WITNESS: I don't. 18 polarized light microscopy, and then they can go on 18 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Do you know whether 19 to transmission electron microscopy. 19 talc is ever considered an asbestiform material? 20 Q. Do you know whether transmission electron 20 A. I don't believe it is as such. It could 21 microscopy has ever been used when looking at joint 21 be contaminated with asbestiform materials. 22 compound to see if there's tremolite, by you or the 22 Q. Do you know whether any of the talc that 23 company that you hire? 23 was included in the Georgia Pacific joint compound 24 A. I'll have to check into that. I'm not 24 contain talc? 25 directly involved in those studies. 25 A. No. Page 82 Page 84 1 Q. Okay. So as you sit here today, you don't 1 Q. Do you know whether any of the talc 2 know one way or the other whether the asbestos- 2 contained in the joint compound was contaminated with 3 containing joint compound sold by Georgia Pacific was 3 tremolite? 4 contaminated with tremolite. True? 4 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 5 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 5 THE WITNESS: No. 6 THE WITNESS: That oversimplifies what I 6 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Do you know how much 7 think about that. I think there is -- I think 7 talc was included, if at all, in Georgia Pacific 8 there's data out there. I think that studies have 8 joint compound? 9 been done to look for amphibole contamination, and I 9 A. I don't have that information. 10 think it's unlikely. 10 Q. Do you know that Georgia Pacific was 11 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) But sir, can you 11 warned in 1975 that the talc that was being 12 point to me as you sit here a single study to prove 12 distributed by R.T. Vanderbilt was asbestos- 13 that the tape joint compound sold by Georgia Pacific 13 containing talc? 14 was not contaminated with tremolite? 14 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 15 A. I can't as I sit here, but I will work on 15 THE WITNESS: No. 16 seeing what I can find. 16 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Would that have been 17 Q. All right. Then we'll continue your 17 something you wanted to know in forming your opinions 18 deposition if you find such a study. 18 in this case? 19 A. Okay. 19 A. It depends on the amount of such 20 Q. Have you ever heard of any tests done by 20 contamination. I'd have to see the data. 21 Georgia Pacific to determine whether the -- or seen 21 Q. Okay. Let's talk a little bit now about 22 any tests done by Georgia Pacific to determine 22 your specific report. Do you have it in front of 23 whether their joint compound had tremolite in it? 23 you? 24 A. I have not seen such studies. 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Okay. Have you ever asked for them? 25 Q. Okay. Look at page 1, if you will. 21 (Pages 81 to 84) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 85 Page 87 1 A. Okay. 1 demonstrate epidemiologically the take-home theory, 2 Q. You say in the third sentence, "I have 2 as far as I know. There are a number of studies, 3 been asked by counsel for Georgia Pacific to render 3 there are a number of case reports that are perhaps 4 opinions regarding potential exposure to asbestos 4 suggestive, but there are many other factors that go 5 that might have arisen from use of Georgia Pacific 5 into those people's exposures. It's a controversial 6 drywall joint compound in home renovation projects." 6 area, to my way of thinking. 7 Do you see that? 7 Q. Well, let me understand your opinion, 8 A. Yes. 8 then. Is it your opinion that people who are 9 Q. And you also say at the end, "And through 9 exposed, family members who are exposed as a result 10 alleged secondary or bystander exposure during a 10 of asbestos brought home on people's clothing are not 11 career as an electrician." Do you see that? 11 at risk for mesothelioma? 12 A. Yes. 12 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. 13 Q. What do you mean by that? 13 A. Very low risk, especially with chrysotile. 14 A. Well, this is all based on his deposition, 14 Q. I didn't ask you about very low risk. I 15 that he talked about usingjoint compound himself, 15 said, is it your opinion that people who are exposed 16 mostly, it seems, in his -- in home renovation 16 to asbestos as a result of asbestos brought home on 17 projects. He talked about building a big home in 17 people's clothing are at no risk for developing 18 1976 or whenever it was. He talked about some other 18 mesothelioma? 19 jobs that he did for other people where he himself 19 MR. HOOPER: Objection. Form. 20 made use ofjoint compound. 20 THE WITNESS: I'm not going to say no 21 Q. Okay. 21 risk, but I'm going to say extremely low risk. There 22 A. Then beyond that, he talks about when he 22 are no -- 23 would do his electrician work in new construction 23 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Is there an exposure 24 that he might be involved in I think it was mostly 24 to asbestos, in your opinion, below which there is no 25 residential, in homes where other work might be going 25 risk for mesothelioma? Page 86 Page 88 1 on, drywall work might be going on while he was 1 A. Yes. 2 present. 2 Q. And what is that? 3 Q. Okay. You indicated in that sentence, 3 A. What type of asbestos? 4 "through alleged secondary or bystander exposures." 4 Q. Any kind of asbestos. 5 What do you mean by "secondary or bystander"? 5 A. If you want to talk about crocidolite, 6 A. That he is not the one who is specifically 6 which is certainly the most potent form of asbestos 7 mixing the dry compound, for example, with water; 7 for causing mesothelioma, it's probably on the order 8 that he's not the one who is specifically sanding the 8 of low, you know, low fiber years per CC. At the 9 compound; that he is at some distance away doing 9 current standard of .1 fiber per CC over 40 years, 10 whatever he was doing as an electrician. But his job 10 you would have four fiber years per CC. 11 was not to apply or mix or sand drywall compound. 11 With crocidolite there is some chance, in 12 Q. Okay. Somebody who -- does secondary or 12 my mind, that that could cause mesothelioma. But if 13 bystander exposure include exposure that may occur as 13 you get down well below that level, the odds decrease 14 a result of bringing the asbestos home on one's 14 considerably the lower you go. With -- 15 clothing? 15 Q. Is there an -- 16 A. Well, that wouldn't be meaningful for 16 MR. HOOPER: Wait. He's not finished with 17 Mr. Bird. He's already been exposed, and I don't 17 his answer. 18 think we can argue that he would have any meaningful 18 Q. -- exposure to chrysotile asbestos below 19 additional exposure from anything that might have 19 which there is no risk for mesothelioma, in your 20 been on his clothes. 20 opinion? 21 Q. Well, you're aware of the fact that 21 MR. HOOPER: He wasn't finished with his 22 families of asbestos-exposed workers get 22 answer to the previous question, Chris. 23 mesothelioma, true? 23 MR. PLACITELLA: I thought he was. I 24 A. Well, just about anybody can get 24 didn't see his lips moving. 25 mesothelioma. There have not been good studies to 25 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Are you through with 22 (Pages 85 to 88) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 89 Page 91 1 your previous answer? 1 Q. So what you're saying is Hodgson and 2 A. No, I can be finished. 2 Darton say that exposure below the OSHA standard will 3 Q. Okay. Is there an exposure below which -- 3 not present a risk of mesothelioma if the asbestos is 4 is there exposure to chrysotile below which there is 4 chrysotile type? 5 no risk for mesothelioma, in your opinion? 5 A. Yeah, not a meaningful risk. 6 A. No increased risk, yes. 6 Q. What's not meaningful? It's meaningful to 7 Q. And what exposure is that? 7 somebody who gets it, isn't it? 8 A. Well, certainly background exposure. 8 A. It is very low, very low. 9 There is no zero exposure anywhere on this planet, 9 Q. You would agree that if someone develops 10 and at background you're not going to have any 10 mesothelioma from exposure to chrysotile, their 11 increased risk compared to everybody else in the 11 exposure was meaningful? 12 world. 12 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 13 Q. All right. Is there an exposure above 13 THE WITNESS: We don't know that they 14 background to chrysotile asbestos that does not 14 developed mesothelioma as a result of low exposures 15 present a risk for mesothelioma? 15 to chrysotile. 16 A. I think so. 16 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) So we're clear: in 17 Q. What is that? 17 reaching your opinions in this case, you did not 18 A. I think that the existing OSHA standard 18 consider any exposure that would occur inside the 19 does a pretty good job of protecting everyone from 19 Bird home as a result of bringing asbestos home on 20 mesothelioma due to chrysotile. 20 the clothing? 21 Q. So do you believe that the intent of the 21 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 22 OSHA standard was to protect people from exposure to 22 THE WITNESS: No. It would be meaningless 23 chrysotile from getting mesothelioma? 23 to him, because to the extent that he got exposure 24 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 24 out in the world doing his job, that would have been 25 THE WITNESS: Not initially. I mean, the 25 far greater than any secondary -- or tertiary Page 90 Page 92 1 standard has changed considerably over the years as 1 exposure to stuff that would be on his clothes. I 2 we've learned more about lung cancer and 2 mean, if you postulate that he's being exposed to 3 mesothelioma. 3 asbestos, he's breathing it in at a rate of two 4 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Do you believe the 4 liters per minute or whatever through the course of 5 current OSHA standard is intended to protect people 5 an eight-hour day and perhaps some small amount of 6 exposed to chrysotile from mesothelioma? 6 asbestos has gotten onto his clothing, you can 7 A. Well, if not, it's not much of a standard. 7 postulate that if he comes home and shakes his 8 Q. That's not my question. My question is 8 clothes real hard and then breathes that air, that he 9 yes or no. Do you believe that the current exposure 9 would get some slight additional exposure. But it 10 standard for chrysotile from OSHA is protective of 10 would be minuscule. 11 mesothelioma? 11 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) So as an industrial 12 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 12 hygienist, would you counsel people that it's okay to 13 THE WITNESS: That is my opinion. 13 shake out asbestos-containing chrysotile clothing in 14 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) And you base that on 14 your laundry room and breathe it in? 15 what? 15 A. Nobody has had chrysotile-contaminated 16 A. On a good deal of recent epidemiological 16 clothing in their laundry room for 30 years. 17 studies and studies of existing epidemiological 17 Q. Oh, really? Well, let me ask you this 18 studies. 18 question. As an industrial hygienist, would you 19 Q. Cite that for me, please. 19 counsel someone who was shaking out clothing 20 A. Hodgson and Darton, Berman and Crump. 20 contaminated with chrysotile that it was okay to 21 Q. Hodgson and Darton referred to the OSHA 21 breathe in that dust? 22 standards? 22 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 23 A. Well, they refer to potency and levels at 23 THE WITNESS: Okay. So hypothetical 24 some -- to some extent, yes. They don't 24 chrysotile asbestos on hypothetical clothing being 25 necessarily -- 25 shaken. 23 (Pages 89 to 92) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 93 1 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) It's not funny. 1 2 A. Well -- I'm sorry. 2 3 Q. Okay? My question is simply this. So let 4 me repeat it again. As an industrial hygienist, 3 4 5 would you counsel or advise people that it's okay to 5 6 shake out chrysotile-contaminated clothing in their 6 7 homes? 8 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 9 THE WITNESS: I would respond as I did 7 8 9 10 earlier, that in industrial hygiene less exposure is 10 11 always better; and if there are simple steps people 11 12 can take to reduce their exposure to anything, any 12 13 sort of toxin, you should do that. So of course I 14 would not counsel them to do such a thing. 13 14 15 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) All right. Would you 15 16 tell of people that it is okay to shake out 16 17 chrysotile-contaminated clothing in their home? 17 18 A. As an industrial hygienist, I would say 19 there is no reason why anybody should be taking 20 asbestos home on their clothing, and that is the 18 19 20 21 first thing I would attack. If we're talking about 21 22 an industry 40, 50 years ago where people are being 22 23 exposed to asbestos and we know now -- knew then what 23 24 we know now, we would say, let's not let this stuff 24 2 5 get away on people's clothes, and let's stop the 25 Page 94 Page 95 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. THE WITNESS: Let's see. That has two parts. I would tell them to limit exposure as best they can, but if such a thing had happened, I would counsel them that it's probably very unlikely that they're going to get mesothelioma from that having happened. Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) And suppose it happened day after day. Would you counsel them that it would be very unlikely that they could get mesothelioma from exposure to chrysotile-contaminated clothing? MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. THE WITNESS: I think it's such a low exposure that it's very unlikely. Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Would you tell them it's impossible? A. No, no. Q. So if asked in a courtroom, is it possible that family members could develop mesothelioma from exposure to asbestos-containing chrysotile on clothing, you would say yes; correct? MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. THE WITNESS: I would not simply say yes. I would say it's very improbable and we have not seen Page 96 1 problem where it makes sense by not letting stuff go 1 evidence in any sort of epidemiological study that 2 home. 2 that has been a problem, even back in the days when 3 And that's common industrial hygiene 3 people did come home heavily contaminated with 4 practice in any industry where people are -- you 4 asbestos. 5 know, we don't allow people to wear their own clothes 5 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Sir, do you believe 6 home these days, right? That's where that whole 6 that epidemiology is necessary to prove causation? 7 practice has come from of, let's control these things 8 to the workplace and protect our families as best we 7 A. No. In fact, you generally cannot prove 8 causation with epidemiology. You have to have 9 can from whatever toxic material might be out there. 9 additional information on mechanisms and biology 10 Q. Okay. You'd agree with me, sir, that the 10 and -- you know, there's a whole -- I forget the man 11 principle of not wearing toxins home on people's 11 who published the eight or so tenets of proving 12 clothing was recognized by industrial hygienists 12 causation. 13 going back to the 1930's, true? 13 Q. Would you agree with me that you could 14 A. Sure, at some level. At some -- in some 14 prove causation without epidemiology? 15 form of toxin I suppose that's true. It wasn't 16 necessarily acted upon very well. 15 A. Well, when you're able to test animals, 16 for example, you know, you instill a given toxin, you 17 Q. Well, it was certainly known by the 1960's 17 see what happens. And then to the extent that you 18 in industrial hygiene circles that people should not 18 can translate that animal model into a human model, 19 wear carcinogens home on their clothing; true? 19 that's one way to get information on toxicity. 20 A. Yeah, I would think that would be a good 20 Q. You're aware that there are animal studies 21 idea. 21 proving that chrysotile can cause mesothelioma; true? 22 Q. Now, so I go back to my question. Would 22 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 23 you tell a jury that it's okay to shake chrysotile 23 THE WITNESS: Well, like -- I guess that's 24 asbestos out in their homes and that they would not 24 true. I'm not sure which forms of asbestos you're 25 be at any risk for developing mesothelioma? 2 5 talking about there. 24 (Pages 93 to 96) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 97 Page 99 1 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) I'm saying, are you 1 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. You said -- I 2 aware that there are animal studies -- there are 2 need to hear that again. 3 studies of animals exposed to chrysotile asbestos 3 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) You say in your first 4 that develop mesothelioma? 4 statement, "there is no corroborative evidence." Do 5 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 5 you see that? 6 THE WITNESS: That's possible. It may be 6 A. Yes. 7 at extremely high exposure levels. And again, you 7 Q. "That he was exposed." Do you see that? 8 always have this question of how well that 8 A. Right, right. 9 information translates over to the human lung and the 9 Q. My question is, did you speak with any 10 differences in the human lung and, say, the rat lung. 10 Georgia Pacific witnesses to see if the description 11 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, let's go back 11 of exposure provided by Pastor Bird was the same as 12 to my original question. You agree with me that you 12 theirs? 13 do not need epidemiology to prove causation; true? 13 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 14 MR. SCHMIEDER: Object to form. 14 MR. HOOPER: Objection to form. 15 THE WITNESS: You have to be very careful. 15 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Or similar to theirs? 16 There may be some clear-cut cases. You know, if 16 A. I don't know there were -- were there 17 we're talking about asbestos, it's tricky. There are 17 Georgia Pacific witnesses in this case? Is that what 18 problems with the animal models, and, you know, we do 18 you mean? 19 rely on epidemiology as being an important part of 19 Q. Yeah. I mean, there are plenty of people 20 our knowledge base. 20 from Georgia Pacific who have seen how joint compound 21 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Sir, if I'm hit by a 21 is applied. Do you agree with that? 22 Ford Mustang on the main road, do I need epidemiology 22 A. Well, not how Mr. Bird used it. 23 to prove that the Ford Mustang caused my injury? 23 Q. Generally speaking, there are many 24 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 24 employees of Georgia Pacific that would be familiar 25 THE WITNESS: No, but that's not science. 25 with how the joint compound was applied; correct? Page 98 Page 100 1 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Okay. Just logic, 1 A. Well, of course. Of course. 2 right? 2 Q. Did you speak with any of them to see 3 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 3 whether their descriptions of how it was applied 4 THE WITNESS: It's a greatly simplified 4 would support the description provided by Pastor Bird 5 form of logic. 5 about how it was applied? 6 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) In your report, I'm 6 A. I have not, no. 7 looking at your section that talks about opinions on 7 Q. Okay. When you say there is no 8 page 2. Do you see that? 8 corroborative evidence, you haven't spoken to a 9 A. Okay. 9 single witness to determine whether there is 10 Q. Your first heading is, "Beyond Mr. Bird's 10 corroborative evidence. True? 11 recollection." Do you see that? 11 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 12 A. Yes. 12 THE WITNESS: Well, what I mean is that 13 Q. Do you believe it's your function as an 13 there weren't other -- I did not receive other 14 expert witness to assess the veracity of Mr. Bird's 14 depositions in this case of coworkers or anyone else 15 testimony? 15 who said, yeah, that was Georgia Pacific that we saw. 16 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 16 I mean, he's remembering back a long time, and I know 17 THE WITNESS: No. I'm just trying to take 17 if you ask me whatjoint compound did I use 20 years 18 the information that's available to me and try to 18 ago when I redid my kitchen, I wouldn't have the 19 make some sense of it. 19 slightest idea. 20 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Did you speak with 20 So I'm just saying, could it have been 21 any Georgia Pacific witnesses to see if the 21 U.S. Gypsum? Could it have been other products? We 22 description provided by Pastor Bird about how he was 22 don't know. I'm just speculating about the human 23 exposed to Georgia Pacific joint compound matches 23 memory, I guess, and the things that we remember. 24 their description? 24 And I'm not an expert in that. I certainly admit 25 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 25 that. I just think it's hard to remember back 25 (Pages 97 to 100) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 101 Page 103 1 precisely what products you used those many years 1 would be his testimony. 2 ago. And to the extent we could, we'd love to be 2 Q. Okay. 3 able to get additional evidence. 3 A. Can I take a break? 4 One way we -- 4 Q. Sure. 5 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, you have a 5 A. Okay, thank you. 6 picture of the Georgia Pacific joint compound, true? 6 (Recess from 11:28 a.m. to 11:34 a.m.) 7 A. Which one? 7 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Looking at your 8 Q. At your office. 8 report, bottom of page 2. 9 A. Yeah. It shows, I don't know, eight or 9 A. Okay. 10 ten different products. 10 Q. You say, "GP used or did not provide 11 Q. Did the description provided by Pastor 11 information on container labeling or warning." Do 12 Bird match the description of any of the pictures in 12 you see that? 13 any of the pictures? 13 A. Right. 14 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 14 Q. Okay. Did Pastor Bird identify the 15 THE WITNESS: I would have to look again 15 picture of Georgia Pacific joint compound? 16 at the picture. I don't recall that it did. 16 A. I don't know what you mean. 17 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, would that be 17 Q. Did he identify a picture of Georgia 18 corroborative evidence, if his description of a joint 18 Pacific joint compound saying, that's the one I used? 19 compound was accurately depicted in the picture that 19 A. I don't know. 20 you have? 20 Q. Would that have been significant in terms 21 A. Not necessarily. I mean, he -- 21 of this report? 22 Q. So unless somebody else came in and said 22 A. It would have been considered, but -- you 23 "I can prove it," it's not good enough for you, 23 know, it's one thing to remember -- you know, I know 24 right? 24 that today Georgia Pacific joint compound has -- 25 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 25 comes in a green can, a green plastic bucket, green Page 102 Page 104 1 THE WITNESS: Well, there's a better way. 1 lettering on white. That doesn't mean that I know 2 There's a better way to prove it, and that is to go 2 what I used five years ago on a specific -- 3 back to the house that he worked in and take some 3 Q. But I'm looking at your report. You said 4 samples. That can be done, and it has been done in 4 he didn't provide any information on container 5 some cases. And I think that would be very -- a very 5 labeling. I said, did he identify a picture in his 6 interesting way to corroborate some of these issues. 6 deposition. 7 Doesn't generally happen in cases, but as an 7 A. Perhaps. 8 industrial hygienist I wish it could happen. 9 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) We got what we got. 8 9 Q. Did he describe a logo? A. Yeah; but, you know, again, I think that 10 A. By the way, I need -- excuse me. 10 logo has been pretty consistent. 11 Q. Would you say it would have been of no use 11 Q. I'm just going to your statement, he 12 to you to look at the pictures of the labels and the 12 provided no information. Is describing the logo no 13 cans that you had in your possession and see if 13 information? 14 Pastor Bird accurately describes what those cans look 14 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. 15 like? That would have been no use to you? 15 THE WITNESS: Maybe I should say no useful 16 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 16 information. I don't know. 17 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. 17 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) So what would be 18 THE WITNESS: I wouldn't say no use. I 18 useful to you, sir? What would be useful 19 would take it along with other pieces of information. 19 information? 20 But, you know, he may -- 20 A. It would be nice, and I admit that it's 21 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Would you agree that 21 difficult to get, but it would be nice if we had 22 it would have been some corroborative evidence if his 22 another worker, a supervisor, someone at one of these 23 description matched the actual pictures that you had 23 jobs he was on who said, yeah, I remember that and I 24 in your possession? 24 remember that that was GP product we used. 25 A. No, it would not be corroborative. It 25 Q. Okay, but you're talking about Pastor 26 (Pages 101 to 104) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 105 Page 107 1 Bird. You said he didn't give any information, but 1 even pay attention to that, because he's working as 2 he did, didn't he? 2 an electrician, not as a drywall installer. And, you 3 A. Well, not on warnings, for example. 3 know, how well is he going to notice what is being 4 Q. Well, you say with regard to bystander 4 used by others on these job sites? And again, isn't 5 exposure, warnings with regard to bystander 5 this a situation where if we could find some of these 6 exposures. Do you see that? 6 folks who did that work, a contractor, and he could 7 A. Well, no, as well as his own personal use. 7 remember back and say, yeah, we always used GP or we 8 Q. No. You say in your report, "warnings 8 always used U.S. Gypsum or something, that would be 9 with regard to bystander exposures." Do you see 9 corroborating evidence to me. Or if we could 10 those words? 10 go back -- 11 A. Where? 11 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Move to strike. I'm 12 Q. In your report, bottom of page 2. 12 just looking at your words, sir. Your words say he 13 A. He did not provide -- 13 didn't provide any information on labeling or 14 Q. The words "did not provide information on 14 warnings regard to bystander exposure. Now, my 15 container labeling or warnings with regard to 15 question to you is, is that something that Georgia 16 bystander exposures," are they your words, sir? 16 Pacific should have provided labeling or warnings 17 A. No, no, no. The next sentence that goes 17 related to bystander exposure? 18 on to page 3 says, with regard to bystander 18 A. Well -- 19 exposures -- okay. "He claims to remember seeing GP 19 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 20 products on at least one occasion." Okay. 20 A. -- that is not what I said. You're 21 Q. That's not what I'm saying. You wrote in 21 misinterpreting what I said. 22 your report, "did not provide any information 22 Q. I'm just reading your words, sir. 23 concerning labeling or warnings with regard to 23 A. "With regard to bystander exposures while 24 bystander exposure," correct? 24 working as an electrician, he claims to remember 25 A. Okay. Maybe I should have -- 25 seeing GP product on at least one occasion." What Page 106 Page 108 1 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 1 does that have to do with labeling? I don't 2 THE WITNESS: Maybe I should have said 2 understand your point. 3 "very little information." 3 Q. It's your sentence, sir. You're the one 4 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, are you saying 4 that used the words "labeling" or "warnings." I'm 5 that Georgia Pacific had warnings on its product 5 not making it up. 6 related to bystander exposure? 6 A. That's in a different statement. You're 7 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 7 mixing two -- 8 THE WITNESS: I'm saying that there was a 8 Q. It's in the same exact sentence, sir. 9 point at which there would have been warnings about 9 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 10 asbestos at a point in time, and -- 10 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) You're talking about 11 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Should there have 11 the same exact sentence. Let's move on, okay? 12 been warnings about bystander exposure on the Georgia 12 A. You're reading different sentences than I 13 Pacific products? 13 am. 14 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 14 Q. "One occasion." You see that word that 15 THE WITNESS: No, no. 15 says "at least one occasion"? 16 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) There shouldn't have 16 A. Yeah. 17 been. So why are you criticizing Pastor Bird for not 17 Q. Are you certain that he testified that he 18 providing information on bystander warnings? 18 only used it on one occasion or saw it on one 19 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 19 occasion? 20 THE WITNESS: No, no, no. The point I'm 20 A. I said "at least one." 21 making -- I'm talking about the jobs where he was 21 Q. Well, how many, sir, did he testify to? 22 working as an electrician and somebody else was doing 22 A. I don't know. We need to go back and 23 the drywall work. I'm saying it's unlikely, number 23 count, I guess. 24 one, that he would have even seen the bags or 24 Q. Would that have been important how many 25 containers that these guys are using, that he would 25 occasions? 27 (Pages 105 to 108) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 109 Page 111 1 A. Not hugely. 1 A. That's right. 2 Q. Okay. You say that in 1973 GP started to 2 Q. So it is your understanding that there was 3 phase out the use of asbestos in joint compound under 3 a warning label -- 4 your section B, page 3. Do you see that? 4 A. Yes. 5 A. Yes. 5 Q. -- in 1976? 6 Q. What was the reason? 6 A. No, as of 1974. 7 A. The reason? 7 Q. Okay. So there was a warning label, as 8 Q. What was the reason in 1973 they decided 8 far as you know, in 1974? 9 to get the asbestos out of the joint compound? 9 A. Yeah. And it was -- as I recall, it was 10 A. Well, as you alluded to earlier, they 10 required by then. 11 had -- GP had decided in '70 or the early 70's that 11 Q. Right. And did the warning label warn 12 they were going to move towards asbestos-free 12 about the cancer? 13 products, even though they were not yet being 13 A. Again, I need to find the exact -- the 14 required to do so. That was their decision. 14 actual example of what that warning said. 15 Q. Was it because of the fear of cancer? 15 Q. Well, would it have mattered to a user in 16 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 16 terms of getting the user's attention whether the 17 THE WITNESS: And the fear about their 17 warning said "cancer" or not? 18 business and how the whole thing would be perceived 18 A. Possibly. 19 by the public, yeah. There are lots of reasons why 19 Q. Okay. Do you know -- you say that if the 20 they moved toward that. 20 label was not present, that would have meant that it 21 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Okay. You say -- let 21 was asbestos free, right? 22 me go through -- I think we went through that 22 A. Correct. 23 already. 23 Q. Okay. Did you know of -- where did 24 You indicate in paragraph B that if 24 Georgia Pacific put the words "asbestos free" on 25 Mr. Bird had used a joint compound in 1976, the 25 their cans or buckets ofjoint compound when they Page 110 Page 112 1 container would have had an asbestos warning label 1 wanted people to know it was asbestos free in 1977 2 had it contained asbestos. True? 2 and '76? 3 A. Correct. 3 A. I don't know. I'm not familiar with those 4 Q. -- was on the product in 1976? 4 containers. 5 A. I'm sorry. I missed that first part. 5 Q. Did you know that the words "asbestos 6 Q. Who told you there was a warning label on 6 free" appeared on the front of the joint compound? 7 the product in 1976? 7 A. No. 8 A. Georgia Pacific and the documents I've 8 Q. Would you agree with me that it would be 9 talked about previously. 9 better to put it on the front of the joint compound 10 Q. So Georgia Pacific told you that they had 10 because it would be clear for people who had used the 11 the word "warning" on their label in 1976? 11 joint compound before that that product no longer 12 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 12 contained asbestos? 13 THE WITNESS: I don't know if they had the 13 A. Well, since you've come through a period 14 word "warning" on it or not. 14 of three years where it said "contains asbestos" and 15 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) What did they have on 15 then when you removed the asbestos, I don't see any 16 it? 16 need to put that information on anyway. 17 A. Well, somewhere there is an example of 17 Q. So you don't think they should have put 18 what they put on it, and I don't know quite where to 18 the word "asbestos free" on, period? 19 lay my hands on it. 19 A. I think it was up to them. I think if it 20 Q. Sir, you're the one that said it would 20 helped them sell their product, that would have been 21 have been a certain way, and I'm asking you, what's 21 fine. 22 the basis for that statement? You say if Mr. Bird 22 Q. And putting the label on the product on 23 had used a joint compound in '76, the container would 23 the side, that would have been fine too if it helped 24 have had an asbestos warning label had it contained 24 them sell their product. True? 25 asbestos. 25 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 28 (Pages 109 to 112) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 113 Page 115 1 THE WITNESS: I can't speak to their 1 probabilities here. 2 decision about that. 2 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, probabilities, 3 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, you indicate 3 sir, you don't even know if the word "asbestos free" 4 that the product must have been asbestos free because 4 appeared on the can, do you? 5 Pastor Bird did not see the warning related to 5 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 6 asbestos. True? 6 THE WITNESS: And if it didn't -- yeah, I 7 A. Well, I'm saying that it's possible. It's 7 don't know what asbestos free has to do with it. 8 probable. He seems to have a great memory for 8 That's after the fact and after the time period we're 9 labels, and perhaps he would have also noticed that 9 interested in here. I'm trying to -- 10 warning when it was on the container or if it wasn't. 10 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) No. You say, sir, 11 Q. In your mind, Pastor Bird's memory is 11 that it would have been asbestos free because he did 12 reliable when it comes to what kind of label was on a 12 not see the warning label. True? 13 product? 13 A. If he had a product from Georgia Pacific 14 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. 14 between the time period of 1974 and '76 or '77, if it 15 THE WITNESS: I can't answer that. 15 contained asbestos it would have had that information 16 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, you testified 16 on the container somewhere. 17 that Pastor Bird had a great memory when it came to 17 Q. Where? On the bottom? 18 labeling. Is that true? Did you just give that 18 A. I'm not sure. It may have differed by 19 testimony? 19 containers, and we can probably find some old 20 A. Well, he seems to suggest that he is able 20 pictures of those things if we -- 21 to remember these things. I should put it that way. 21 Q. Sir, the truth of the matter is, you're 22 Q. And do you believe him? 22 not qualified to talk about the placement of warnings 23 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 23 on Georgia Pacific joint compound, are you? 24 A. I have no reason not to believe him. And 24 A. No, and that's not what my report 25 that's why when -- 25 discusses. Page 114 Page 116 1 Q. Now, if -- 1 Q. All right. And you're not an expert on 2 A. I wasn't finished. I wasn't finished 2 warnings, are you? 3 answering. You keep stepping on me before I can 3 A. No, and that's not what my report 4 finish. 4 discusses. 5 MR. HOOPER: Finish your answer. 5 Q. You're also not qualified to comment on 6 THE WITNESS: Now I have to remember where 6 what Pastor Bird recalls or doesn't recall. True? 7 I was. 7 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 8 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) I'll ask you the next 8 THE WITNESS: Yeah. Nobody can make sense 9 question. If the label was put on the side of the 9 of that. His testimony is what it is. 10 can and Pastor Bird had used the product on multiple 10 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Yes, sir. 11 occasions before that, he would have no reason to 11 Now, on paragraph -- page No. 3. 12 look on the side of the can, would he? 12 A. Okay. 13 A. I can't answer to his state of mind. 13 Q. Subsection 2. Do you see that? 14 Q. Well, did you not tell me before that 14 A. Uh-huh. 15 there would be no reason to go look at the directions 15 Q. It says "sufficient information" -- 16 on the side of the can had you used the product 16 "insufficient information." Do you see that? 17 multiple times before then? Did you not tell me that 17 A. Yes. 18 under oath? 18 Q. "Is available." What would be sufficient? 19 A. I said that's possible. 19 A. Let's see. 20 Q. Okay. So your statement that the product 20 Q. If somebody's got their Blackberry or 21 would have been asbestos free because he didn't see 21 something on, please, could you mute or shut it off? 22 the words "asbestos free," that's a suspect 22 Because it's interfering. 23 statement. Would you agree with that? 23 For the record, you indicate in the 24 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 24 sentence, "sufficient information is available in the 25 THE WITNESS: I'm talking about 25 record" -- "insufficient information is available in 29 (Pages 113 to 116) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 117 Page 119 1 the record to provide a quantitative estimate of 1 only exposed for 865 hours to drywall dust. I mean, 2 cumulative exposure to asbestos that could have 3 arisen from any direct use of GP products by Bird or 2 that's what we'd like to be able to do in trying to 3 reconstruct exposures. And I'm just saying the 4 through secondary exposure due to the use of such 5 products by others." Do you see that? 4 information available to me didn't support that sort 5 of detailed analysis. 6 A. Yes. 6 Q. How many exposures to the drywall dust 7 Q. What do you mean by -- what do you mean by 7 would have been significant, in your mind, in terms 8 "insufficient information"? 8 of increasing the risk of mesothelioma? 9 A. Well, we don't have a specific number of 9 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 10 times. For example, it would be impossible, 10 THE WITNESS: Well, nothing like what he 11 probably, for him to recall how many times was he 11 had. You know, if he'd worked his entire career as a 12 working as an electrician in close proximity to 12 drywall installer for these years of, what, '65 13 people doing drywall. Was it once a week? Was it 13 through whatever it was, '78 or whenever that he sort 14 once a month? You know, how often was it? And I 14 of stopped doing that sort of work, it would be 15 can't tell from reading his testimony, and, you know, 15 extremely unlikely for him to have sufficient 16 maybe he could be questioned further if that's 16 chrysotile exposure to cause the disease. He's only, 17 possible. But I was not able to tell how often and 17 you know, getting 1/100th of the exposure that these 18 for how many hours a day, say, when this did occur 18 drywall installers got. So I just don't see how it 19 when he was working. 19 can add up to being an exposure that would be likely 20 And the other, even to back up from that, 2 0 to cause mesothelioma. 21 what percentage of his time did he spend doing new 21 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) You say -- your 22 electrical installation where he could potentially be 22 comment is "insufficient information," and I'm trying 23 exposed to drywall dust versus going off and 23 to figure out what is sufficient information for you 24 repairing, you know, electrical appliances and all 24 so you would be able to form an opinion one way or 2 5 the other things he did. Was it 50 percent of his 2 5 the other. Page 118 Page 120 1 time in construction? Was it 20 percent? I can't 1 A. Well, if he had a journal, a daily work 2 tell from the testimony. 2 logjournal, that would certainly be sufficient 3 Q. Sir, you're aware that the lawyers for 3 information. 4 Georgia Pacific had the opportunity to ask Pastor 4 Q. Okay. So without a work log journal, 5 Bird anything they wanted to know about exposure to 5 you're unable to form an opinion one way or another 6 their product. You're aware of that, right? 6 as to whether his exposure contributed to his 7 A. Yeah, and I'm not sure he would have been 7 mesothelioma when it comes to joint compound? 8 able to even provide that information. 8 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 9 Q. Well, what information -- if you were to 9 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 10 ask Pastor Bird the question, what questions would 10 THE WITNESS: No, that is absolutely not 11 you ask? 11 true. 12 A. I would ask him, first of all -- and I 12 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, you said 13 believe this may actually be somewhere in the 13 "insufficient information," and I'm trying to 14 testimony where he tried to estimate percentages, you 14 understand what you mean is sufficient in order to 15 know, did you do appliance repair 20, 30 percent of 15 arrive at -- to be good enough for you to make a 16 the time. It seemed to vary through the course of 16 judgment. 17 the four volumes. I think these things were asked, 17 A. I said, "insufficient information to 18 and it's certainly very hard to remember that kind of 18 provide a quantitative estimate of cumulative 19 thing and put percentages on it and put frequency and 19 exposure from GP products." 20 how long did it last that you were breathing the 20 Q. All right. 21 dust, et cetera, et cetera. 21 A. I didn't say insufficient information to 22 And so that's all I'm trying to say here 22 have an opinion about whether such exposures caused 23 is that in reading the transcript as it came to me, I 23 him problems or not. 24 didn't feel like it had come up with a factor that 24 Q. Do you believe that Pastor Bird's 25 would be accurate or meaningful that, gee, he was 2 5 mesothelioma was related to asbestos exposure, 30 (Pages 117 to 120) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 121 Page 123 1 occupational? 1 Q. Let's go to the next page of your report, 2 A. I don't know. 2 okay? One of the things you rely upon is the study 3 Q. Okay. And you're not qualified to give 3 by Robinson as referenced in paragraph B; correct? 4 that opinion, are you? 4 A. Yes. 5 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. 5 Q. Okay. The study by Robinson was done -- 6 THE WITNESS: I'm not a physician, no. 6 did not -- was done for people exposed up to 1986. 7 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) You are not qualified 7 True? 8 to provide an opinion as to whether a specific 8 A. Yeah. It was a cohort of these folks over 9 exposure to a specific product caused Pastor Bird's 9 a three-year period, I believe, '84 to '86. 10 mesothelioma. True? 10 Q. What is your understanding, sir, of the 11 A. I am qualified to put it in the 11 latency period necessary for developing mesothelioma? 12 perspective of the existing standards and knowledge. 12 A. Well, typically we talk about at least 13 Q. That's not my question. My question is, 13 15 years, extending up to 30, 40 years. 14 you are not qualified to provide an opinion as to 14 Q. So at a minimum it would be 15 years, 15 whether a specific exposure to a specific product was 15 correct? 16 responsible partly or entirely for Pastor Bird's 16 A. Yeah, typically. 17 mesothelioma? 17 Q. Would you agree with me, sir, that it 18 A. I am not qualified to give medical opinion 18 would be highly unlikely that people who were exposed 19 about his mesothelioma. 19 to Georgia Pacific joint compounds from 1970 to 1977 20 Q. All right. And that includes what the 20 would be included as part of this analysis? 21 cause was, true? 21 A. Well, you have to understand that these 22 A. Yeah, sure. 22 people's exposures go way back. You know, some of 23 Q. Okay. Now, you say in your sentence, "a 23 these guys who were studied in '84 to '86 might have 24 quantitative estimate of cumulative exposure." Do 24 been working for 30, 40 years. 25 you see that? 25 Q. Yes, sir. But exposures that happened in Page 122 Page 124 1 A. Yes. 1 the 1970's would not have been responsible for 2 Q. And do you agree from an industrial 2 mesothelioma developing from 1984 to 1986. Do you 3 hygienist perspective that it's the total exposure 3 agree with that? 4 that you have to look at? 4 A. Well, that's true. From '70 on you 5 A. That's what cumulative means. 5 wouldn't see much effect in this cohort. 6 Q. Right. In other words, it's the total 6 Q. So this particular cohort doesn't directly 7 dust that causes the disease. True? 7 apply to people using asbestos-containing joint 8 A. Yeah. I mean, that's one of our best 8 compound sold by Georgia Pacific between 1970 and 9 measures in terms of assessing risk in these things 9 1977; true? 10 is to be able to add up cumulative exposure. 10 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 11 Q. All right. So what you do is you add up 11 THE WITNESS: That's true. I mean, any of 12 all the exposures to determine whether there's an 12 these studies have to be lagged for the latency 13 elevated risk. True? 13 years. 14 A. Yeah. And you compare that against the 14 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Now, the study also 15 knowledge base that we have about risk of that level 15 doesn't look at anybody who did construction work in 16 of exposure. 16 the state of New Jersey. True? 17 Q. So each and every exposure is significant 17 A. Let's see. Yeah, it was a number of 18 when determining what the cumulative exposure is that 18 states, 19 states. And I can't remember if they're 19 contributes to the risk for mesothelioma; true? 19 listed or not. 20 MS. KRIEGSTEIN: Objection to form. 20 Q. Yeah, they're listed. 21 THE WITNESS: It all adds up in a nice 21 A. Okay. 22 linear way. 22 Q. In fact, the study does not even refer to 23 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Is the answer to my 23 any people studied in the entire Northeast, does it? 24 question yes? 24 A. Well, no; but, you know, most of these 25 A. I think so, yes. 25 products are nationwide. 31 (Pages 121 to 124) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 125 Page 127 1 Q. So are you saying that the work practices 1 this study? 2 for people exposed to drywall are the same no matter 2 A. Yeah. There were 14 cases. 3 what state they work in, generally speaking? 3 Q. Okay. And in this study did the plumbers 4 A. There would obviously be some little 4 get mesothelioma? 5 differences based on weather and things like that. 5 A. Yeah. 6 But, you know, the study is what it is. They studied 6 7 a big cohort of people from 19 states. 7 Q. Did the plasterers get mesothelioma? MR. HoOpER: Object to form. 8 Q. Okay. Now, does the study indicate that 8 THE WITNESS: It's not listed. 9 people were being exposed to asbestos after 1977, 9 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Can't tell one way or 10 construction workers? 10 the other? 11 A. No, I doubt that it says anything -- I 11 A. Well, yeah. I think they only listed 12 don't know that it says anything about that. 12 where the PMR was -- yeah. They have cancer of lung, 13 Certainly the exposures would have gone down, but 13 but there's no cancer of pleura under plasterers. 14 probably not to zero. 14 Q. Okay. Go to -- let me see your page. 15 Q. Do you recall where in the study it 15 Hold on. The last page where it says "conclusion." 16 indicated there were exposures, significant exposures 16 A. Okay. 17 after 1977? 17 Q. See where it says "during health hazard 18 A. Let's see. Perhaps. But as you already 18 evaluation"? 19 pointed out, they wouldn't be meaningful to 19 A. I'm sorry. What section is that under? 20 development of meso, anyway. 20 Q. It's under conclusion at the bottom of the 21 Q. All right. In that particular study? 21 page, the first page where it says "Conclusion." 22 A. That's right. 22 Says, "during health hazard evaluation." Do you see 23 Q. Right. But it would have been meaningful 23 that? 24 20, 30 years later. 24 A. Oh, I'm sorry. I was in the wrong place 25 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. 25 here. Okay. Page 126 Page 128 1 THE WITNESS: Yeah. I mean, the thing is 1 Q. See that? 2 that with respect to joint compounds, since we now 2 A. Conclusions, the patterns -- let's see. 3 don't have asbestos in joint compound after the late 3 Q. "During health hazard evaluation," do you 4 70's, that particular exposure would have largely 4 have that? 5 gone away. 5 A. Not yet. You're talking about -- is it 6 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Except for the people 6 page 68? 7 that were knocking down walls, right, sir? 7 Q. It's hard to read, to tell you the truth. 8 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. 8 A. Yeah. 9 THE WITNESS: That's right. So you may 9 Q. It looks to me like it was page 64. Under 10 see that as showing up in other job tasks that show 10 discussion. 11 up here, people doing demolition or whatever. 11 A. Oh, okay. Under discussion. 12 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Right. People 12 Q. My fault. 13 demolishing walls with joint compound could develop 13 A. Okay, yeah. "During health hazard 14 mesothelioma 20, 30 years later; right? 14 evaluations conducted between '81 and '83." 15 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 15 Q. During health hazard evaluations? 16 THE WITNESS: Well, hypothetical. 16 A. Uh-huh. 17 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Hypothetically? 17 Q. "Between 1981 and 1983 by the National 18 A. Well, I don't think so. I don't think 18 Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, NIOSH." 19 those exposures would normally cause that. 19 See that? 20 Q. All right. So this study indicates that 20 A. Right. 21 people that were carpenters had mesothelioma, true? 21 Q. "Elevated ambient asbestos levels were 22 A. Let's see them. Boilermakers, tile 22 reported for several construction occupation sites 23 setters. A lot of pages here to this table. They've 23 involving skilled trade workers." Do you see that? 24 got a PMR of 163, so small -- 24 A. Yeah. 25 Q. Well, did carpenters get mesothelioma in 25 Q. And that included electrical work, right? 32 (Pages 125 to 128) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 129 Page 131 1 A. Right. 2 Q. Drywalling? 3 A. Uh-huh. 4 Q. Right? 5 A. Right. 6 Q. Insulation, carpentry, and roofing, right? 7 A. Yeah, I see that. 8 Q. So people, according to this study that 9 you rely upon, were exposed to elevated levels of 10 asbestos doing drywalling even after 1977. True? 11 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 12 THE WITNESS: Well, yeah. It says 13 reported for several construction occupation sites. 14 So that means -- 15 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) These included. 16 Isn't that what it says? 17 A. Yeah. And of course -- and the next 18 question is, what do they mean by elevated? They 19 don't tell us that. 20 Q. Well, elevated at least would be above 21 background, would you agree? 22 A. Sure. 23 Q. Okay. So after 1977, people doing drywall 24 continued to be exposed to asbestos, according to 25 this article. True? 1 Q. Let me just ask you some questions about 2 some of the adjectives that you use in your report. 3 A. Okay. 4 Q. On page 3 of your report, at the bottom of 5 the page you say, "Mr. Bird's direct work with joint 6 compound does appear to be very intermittent." Do 7 you see that? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Why do you use the word "very"? What 10 qualitative meaning is the word "very" to you? 11 A. Yeah. I mean, it's true that 12 "intermittent" is kind of an imprecise word to begin 13 with. What I'm trying to say is that it was maybe a 14 once a year kind of frequency at most. 15 Q. Okay. And if it was more than once a 16 year, would that have been significant? 17 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 18 THE WITNESS: Not unless it got a lot 19 more. 20 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, how much more? 21 A. Well, if he were a full-time drywaller, 22 it's still not all that significant with respect to 23 mesothelioma. 24 Q. So in your opinion, if he went to work 25 every day and was exposed to Georgia Pacific joint Page 130 Page 132 1 A. Yeah, I would need to see these studies, 1 compound for his whole career and he breathed in the 2 because they say elevated ambient levels were 2 dust from that joint compound every day, it would 3 reported for several construction occupation sites 3 still be unlikely that that exposure would have 4 that in turn involved certain kinds of work. Now, 4 contributed to his mesothelioma. Is that what you're 5 does that mean that they measured a drywaller and 5 saying? 6 found an elevated level, or just that they found it 6 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 7 on this general site? I can't tell what that means. 7 THE WITNESS: Yeah. And in fact, the most 8 Q. I understand. But it says that 8 it could have been would have only been about ten 9 drywallers -- that's presumably people who use joint 9 years in any case with Georgia Pacific 10 compound, according to your testimony. True? 10 asbestos-containing drywall. 11 A. I'm sorry. I didn't follow that. 11 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) So your opinion is, 12 Q. Drywallers, according to your testimony, 12 just so we're clear, that if Pastor Bird went to work 13 were people who use joint compound; true? 13 every day and inhaled and ate asbestos dust generated 14 A. Yeah, sure. 14 from Georgia Pacific joint compound, that would not 15 Q. And drywallers, according to the study you 15 be enough to contribute to his mesothelioma. True? 16 rely upon, were exposed to asbestos after 1977, true? 16 A. That's what the epidemiology tells us, 17 MR. HOOPER: Objection to form. 17 yes. 18 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure this says that. 18 Q. Tell me what epidemiology you rely upon, 19 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Okay. 19 sir, that focuses on asbestos dust generated 20 A. What I would need to see is measurements 20 specifically from Georgia Pacific joint compound. 21 that are actually taken on drywallers at these sites 21 A. Well, it's not specific to Georgia 22 that show some elevation. And again, was it a 22 Pacific; but we know from studies like the Rohl study 23 renovation site? Maybe it wasn't new construction at 23 where he looked at eight or ten different compounds 24 all. Maybe they were tearing into old drywall. Who 24 that, you know, they were roughly the same kind of 25 knows. 25 material and the same sort of asbestos content. So I 33 (Pages 129 to 132) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 133 Page 135 1 don't think it -- epidemiology doesn't require it 1 A. I don't know of the study we would really 2 being only Georgia Pacific compound. You would never 2 like to see, which, unfortunately, is a study that 3 find a cohort of people who only used Georgia Pacific 3 would have been almost impossible to do, to find a 4 product. 4 big cohort of people who just do that. That's the 5 Q. Well, you said the Rohl study. That's an 5 problem. 6 epidemiologic study? 6 Q. What you're saying is, it would be 7 A. Well, no. I'm sorry. What the Rohl study 7 impossible to study somebody who just installed joint 8 tells us is something about the products at that 8 compound to determine whether they were at risk of 9 time, that there were many products -- 9 mesothelioma. True? 10 Q. It doesn't talk about whether people are 10 A. Yeah. The best we can do, as in the 11 getting mesothelioma, right? 11 Robinson study where we identify people who are 12 A. No, and I didn't suggest that it did. 12 drywall installers and look at as many of them as we 13 Q. Are you aware of a single study that 13 can. 14 looked to see specifically whether people using joint 14 Q. All right. Do carpenters install drywall 15 compound were getting mesothelioma? 15 with joint compound? 16 A. Yeah. The one we just looked at, the 16 A. They certainly could. 17 Robinson study. 17 Q. Did you ever look at the study of New 18 Q. Show me where in this study it talks about 18 Jersey carpenters to determine whether they were 19 people using joint compound getting or not getting 19 found to be at an elevated risk for joint compound? 20 mesothelioma. Where in that study is the word "joint 20 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. 21 compound"? 21 THE WITNESS: I don't know if I have that 22 A. Well, the word "drywallers" is in there. 22 one, no. 23 Q. Yes, sir. Where does it say that that 23 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Is that a study that 24 study looked at whether people using joint compound 24 Georgia Pacific did not give to you, the study of New 25 were getting mesothelioma? 25 Jersey carpenters in terms of whether they were at Page 134 Page 136 1 A. Under the listing "drywall installers." 1 risk for mesothelioma? 2 Drywall installers -- 2 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. 3 Q. It says that they use joint compound, sir? 3 THE WITNESS: Well, it wasn't a function 4 A. We already discussed the fact that -- you 4 of who gave it to me. I have not run across that 5 pointed that out to me that drywallers use joint 5 study. 6 compound. 6 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) All right. So just 7 Q. Sir, I'm saying to you -- I'm saying to 7 to be clear: the only study that you're aware of that 8 you -- I don't really think it's that funny. It's 8 in your mind relates to whether people using joint 9 specifically this question. I'm asking you, sir, 9 compound are at risk for mesothelioma is the Robinson 10 name me a specific study that was done that you're 10 study in front of you? 11 aware of that looked at people using joint compound 11 A. It's the one I relied on. There could be 12 to determine whether they got mesothelioma. 12 some others. 13 A. It's right here on page 61 of Robinson's 13 Q. But you're not aware of any others? 14 study where he -- 14 A. Not that come to mind right now. 15 Q. Is that the only study you rely upon for 15 Q. Well, not that come to mind now, or have 16 that proposition? 16 you seen them in the past? 17 A. It is one that I relied upon. 17 A. Well, there is one other Robinson study 18 Q. Is that the only study that you rely upon? 18 that I think is a followup on this one. I haven't 19 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. 19 looked at that for a while. But -- 20 THE WITNESS: It's the only one I cite in 20 Q. Why didn't you cite that? 21 my report, that is correct. 21 A. I don't know. I don't know. 22 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) And as you sit here 22 Q. So other than the studies done by 23 today, are you aware of any other study that 23 Robinson, you're not aware of another study that 24 specifically addresses whether people installing 24 addresses the issue, in your mind, of whether people 25 joint compound are at risk for mesothelioma? 25 exposed to joint compound are at risk for 34 (Pages 133 to 136) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 137 Page 139 1 mesothelioma; true? 1 Q. You understand that CertainTeed made 2 A. Yeah. I'm not aware of a real blockbuster 2 transite siding? 3 study that just looks at those folks with sufficient 3 A. Yes. 4 power to give us what we'd like to see. 4 Q. Okay. Is it your opinion that the 5 Q. You are aware that electricians can be 5 exposure to CertainTeed transite siding was a 6 exposed to joint compound on the job; true? 6 significant factor in causing Pastor Bird's 7 A. Well -- 7 mesothelioma? 8 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. 8 Let me put it this way, because you're not 9 A. -- to the extent that they are present 9 a causation expert. Is it your opinion that exposure 10 when others are generating dust, there would be some 10 to transite siding by CertainTeed elevated Pastor 11 exposure. 11 Bird's risk of developing mesothelioma? 12 Q. And in this study that you rely upon, 12 MR. SUSS: Objection to form. 13 electricians were found to have elevated levels of 13 THE WITNESS: Only by a very small amount, 14 mesothelioma. True? 14 very small amount. 15 A. Yeah, they had a PMR of 331 or something. 15 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, did it or 16 It's based on six cases. It is a small number of 16 didn't it? 17 cases. 17 A. Well, I just said by a very small amount. 18 Q. Well, is a 331 risk high or low, in your 18 Q. But in terms of assessing cumulative 19 opinion? 19 exposure that we discussed before, would that have 20 A. Well, it's a little elevated. I don't 20 been part of the cumulative exposure that would have 21 think it was -- was that one significant? Yeah, I 21 contributed to his risk of mesothelioma? 22 think that one is significant. So yeah, it's 22 A. Yes. 23 elevated. 23 MS. KRIEGSTEIN: Objection to form. 24 Q. Now, with respect to page 5 of your 24 A. That's why I mentioned it. 25 report, you are discussing current scientific studies 25 Q. All right. So in your opinion, the Page 138 Page 140 1 and you talk about Hodgson and Darton. Do you see 1 exposure to CertainTeed transite siding would have 2 that? 2 been part of the cumulative risk elevating Pastor 3 A. Yes. 3 Bird's risk of mesothelioma? 4 Q. That was year 2000, right? 4 A. Slightly elevated, yes. 5 A. Correct. 5 Q. Okay. And how many times did he do that? 6 Q. That was nine years ago; true? 6 A. Just a couple that I recall, two or three 7 A. True. 7 different projects. There was the one where the 8 Q. Okay. Are there other respected 8 house had burned or something and they had to remove 9 scientists that differ with Hodgson and Darton in 9 it. Then I think they applied it on a new house, and 10 terms of the relative potential of chrysotile 10 there may have been a third. 11 asbestos to cause mesothelioma? 11 Q. So in your opinion, the exposure to 12 A. There are undoubtedly those who have 12 CertainTeed transite siding on just a couple of 13 different opinions. 13 occasions contributed to an overall risk of 14 Q. All right. And are there respected 14 developing mesothelioma? 15 scientists of the opinion that chrysotile can cause 15 MR. SUSS: Objection to form. 16 mesothelioma? 16 Mr. KRIEGSTEIN: Join. 17 A. Well, certainly. Even Hodgson and Darton 17 THE WITNESS: It contributes to his 18 think it's possible. 18 cumulative exposure. It's still, you know -- and 19 Q. Okay. Now, in the last paragraph, under 19 this is another instance where we don't know the 20 No. 3 you talk about transite siding. Do you see 20 exact duration, so again, it's hard to come up with 21 that? 21 any kind of quantitative exposure assessment on that 22 A. Yes. 22 process. 23 Q. And I think before you used the 23 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) But I didn't put it 24 word "CertainTeed." Do you recall that? 24 in my report. You're the one that mentioned the 25 A. Yeah, I mentioned that. 25 siding and what its role was. So my question is, do 35 (Pages 137 to 140) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 141 Page 143 1 you believe that the CertainTeed siding exposure 1 A. Well, as far back as there have been 2 contributed to his risk of mesothelioma? 2 people that we could call industrial hygienists, 3 A. Very slightly, yeah. 3 that's always been our first question is, you know, 4 Q. Yes, the answer is yes? 4 what are these people working with and what are the 5 A. Very slightly. 5 toxicological properties and do we have a problem. 6 Q. Very slightly yes? 6 Q. Okay. Is it a recognized principle in 7 A. Well, obviously. 7 industrial hygiene that engineering controls should 8 Q. Okay. Now, are there generally recognized 8 be used to prevent the inhalation of asbestos- 9 principles of industrial hygiene concerning 9 containing dust? 10 protecting a worker from industrial hazards? 10 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. K 11 A. Sure. 11 THE WITNESS: Well, where feasible, you 12 Q. Okay. And is there a code of ethics 12 know, understanding that there are many situations 13 followed by industrial hygienists in terms of 13 where the engineering control part is problematic, 14 protecting worker health and safety? 14 and we sometimes have to go to personal protective 15 A. Absolutely. 15 equipment like respirators. 16 Q. Okay. And what is that code of ethics -- 16 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Yes, sir. And was it 17 is that published by the American Industrial Hygiene 17 recognized as far back as the 1930's that engineering 18 Association? 18 controls should be used to prevent the inhalation of 19 A. Well, yeah, the American Board of 19 asbestos- containing dust whenever possible? 20 Industrial Hygiene. 20 A. Sure. When you're in, like, a 21 Q. What does that code of ethics say in terms 21 manufacturing situation like the asbestos textile 22 of the responsibility for protecting worker health 22 mills, asbestos mines and so on, all did their best 23 and safety? 23 to eventually, when they recognized the problem, 24 A. Oh, that we should and we must whenever we 24 began to install ventilation systems wherever they 25 can. 25 could. Page 142 Page 144 1 Q. Okay. Are there general principles in 1 Q. So was it a recognized principle of 2 industrial hygiene concerning the protecting of a 2 industrial hygiene going back to the 1930s that you 3 worker from hazards of industrial dust? 3 should use ventilation or engineering controls to 4 A. Sure. 4 prevent asbestos-containing dust exposure if 5 Q. Are asbestos and industrial dust covered 5 possible? 6 by these principles? 6 A. Sure, sure. 7 A. Yeah, in the workplace. 7 Q. Is it a recognized principle of industrial 8 Q. Is it a recognized principle of industrial 8 hygiene going back to the 1930's that you should 9 hygiene that an investigation should be done to 9 attempt to remove hazardous ingredients from products 10 determine whether material is used in a product that 10 encountered in the workplace whenever possible? 11 would present a risk to a worker? 11 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 12 A. Well, as of the mid to late 80's on, we 12 THE WITNESS: Yeah. You know, what we 13 had the hazard communication standard that OSHA 13 call substitution, it's been a principle that when 14 promulgated which says, yes, we must find the 14 you can remove something hazardous, that's the best 15 identity, the composition of products, the chemical 15 way to control it, if you have some alternative that 16 products that are sold and used; and we must, you 16 does as good a job. 17 know, pass that information on to employers and 17 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) And that principle 18 employees in the form of material safety data sheets, 18 has been recognized going back to the 1930's by 19 warnings, and so on. So yeah, that has been a 19 industrial hygienists; true? 20 principle. 20 A. Yeah, I would think that's true. 21 Q. Okay. Am I correct that the principle, 21 Q. Is it a recognized principle of industrial 22 the industrial hygiene principle that the product 22 hygiene that workers should be told about the risk of 23 should be investigated to determine whether it poses 23 the products they're asked to work with? 24 a risk to the worker goes back well before the 24 A. Yeah, it's always been part of industrial 25 1960's? 25 hygiene. Again, I mentioned the hazard communication 36 (Pages 141 to 144) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 145 Page 147 1 standard which didn't come out until the mid to late 1 five million particles per cubic feet. 2 80's, which actually codified that into the 3 regulations. It's surprising that it took so long, 4 but that is the case. 2 Q. Kind of like what Dr. Longo did? 3 A. I'm telling you that it depends on a great 4 many factors. The whole science of the visibility 5 Q. But was it a recognized principle of 5 and interactions of light with aerosol particles is 6 industrial hygiene going back to the 1930's that 7 workers should be told about the risks of the 8 products they were asked to work with? 6 very complex, and it's a pet peeve of mine the way 7 that information gets misused in the science of 8 industrial hygiene. So I'll get off my soapbox, 9 MR. HOOPER: Objection. 10 THE WITNESS: Yes. 9 but - 10 Q. All right. When is the first time it was 11 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Yes, sir? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Was it a recognized principle of 14 industrial hygiene that if you could not eliminate 15 hazards, you needed to warn the workers of the 16 hazards going back to the 1930's? 17 A. Yeah. You know, in theory that was true. 18 In practice we know various anecdotal stories where 11 technologically possible to monitor exposure for 12 asbestos-containing dust? 13 A. Well, back in the -- I would say roughly 14 the 30's where you came in with the old midget 15 impinger and pulled air through a liquid-containing 16 impinger and then looked at it under a microscope. 17 Q. Do you agree with me that at least by the 18 1930's it was a recognized principle of industrial 19 even early inspectors from, you know, prior to OSHA 19 hygiene that a worker should have explained to him or 20 would be very careful about what they said to workers 20 her the reason why they would be given a respirator? 21 for fear of causing an uproar. So theoretically 21 A. Yeah. It's hard for me to speak to people 22 that's true. Unfortunately, that wasn't always 2 2 in the 30's, but I think that would have been how 23 followed. 24 Q. Would you agree with me that by at least 2 3 most industrial hygienists, if they were even called 2 4 that in those days, that they would try to give some 25 the 1930's it was recognized as a principle of 2 5 explanation. Page 146 Page 148 1 industrial hygiene that if you could not eliminate an 1 Q. From a principle of industrial hygiene, 2 industrial hazard of asbestos-containing dust by 3 engineering controls that a worker should be given a 2 would you agree a company should warn consumers about 3 the dangers associated with the use of its products? 4 respirator? 4 A. Did you say consumers? 5 A. To the extent that exposures were 5 Q. Right. 6 considered to be hazardous, you know, there were 6 A. Well, that's somewhat out of our 7 those industries back in those days where nobody 7 bailiwick. We're more concerned with worker health. 8 considered these sort of secondary asbestos exposures 8 Q. Well, let me rephrase the question. Do 9 to be of concern. You know, we had the old five 9 you agree with me that as an principle of industrial 10 million particle per standard, million particles per 10 hygiene a company should warn workers about the 11 cubic foot standard, and people felt that it was 11 dangers associated with the use of its products? 12 unlikely that operations that didn't directly involve 12 A. Yeah, to some extent, and that's certainly 13 asbestos, but only, you know, components of products 13 what we try to do these days. 14 containing asbestos were not of concern. We were 14 Q. Would you agree with me as a principle of 15 concerned initially about the textile workers and 15 industrial hygiene that a company should test its 16 later insulators and people like that, but the 16 products to determine if they are dangerous before 17 knowledge evolved over a long period of time. 18 Q. Well, five million particles per cubic 17 selling them? 18 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 19 foot, that is visible to the naked eye, is it not? 19 THE WITNESS: They are required to do that 20 A. Not in all cases, no. 20 under hazard communication. Other than that, you 21 Q. What point -- at what point can you see 21 know, in the past if it was not -- well, OSHA didn't 22 industrial dust with the naked eye? 22 exist, of course, but it wasn't their bailiwick to 23 A. I can see dust in a train station in the 23 look into computer -- I'm sorry -- consumer product 24 sunlight streaming through the windows. That's 24 safety issues. 25 nowhere near an industrial level and nowhere near 2 5 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, was it a 37 (Pages 145 to 148) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 149 Page 151 1 recognized principle of industrial hygiene that a 1 workers? 2 company should test its products to determine if they 2 MR. HOOPER: Objection to form. 3 were dangerous before selling them if they were 3 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure exactly what 4 encountered by a worker? 4 that means. 5 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 5 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, would you agree 6 THE WITNESS: Well, it certainly is today. 6 with me as a principle of industrial hygiene that a 7 And how far back that sentiment goes in our society, 7 company should always tell the truth about the risks 8 I can't speak exactly. 8 and benefits of a product it puts in the workplace? 9 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Would you agree it 9 MR. HOOPER: Objection to form. 10 goes back at least to the 1960's? 10 THE WITNESS: That would be an ideal to 11 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. 11 the extent that they know those things. 12 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 12 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) And that ideal would 13 THE WITNESS: I'd say 70's, certainly by 13 go back at least to the 1960's. Would you agree? 14 the time OSHA came around. 14 A. I don't know. I don't know. I'm not a 15 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, at least by the 15 sociological expert. 16 early 70's it was a recognized principle of 16 Q. Well, would you agree with me as a 17 industrial hygiene that a company should test its 17 principle of industrial hygiene that a company should 18 products to determine if they were dangerous before 18 never withhold information about product dangers used 19 putting them in the workplace true? 19 in the workplace? 20 MR. HOOPER: Object. 20 MR. HOOPER: Objection to form. 21 THE WITNESS: I guess as a general 21 THE WITNESS: I mean, I think that's a 22 principle you could say that. 22 nice ideal. 23 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Would you agree that 23 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, it's something 24 as a general principle of industrial hygiene that a 24 you believe in, sir? 25 company should inform workers if it learned a product 25 A. Yeah, I do today and in my practice. Page 150 Page 152 1 is dangerous after it puts it in the workplace? 1 Q. Do you agree, sir, as a general principle 2 A. Yeah. You know, that later became a 2 industrial hygiene, a company should never put 3 standard or requirement to go back on certain kinds 3 profits before worker safety? 4 of exposures that could have occurred historically 4 MR. HOOPER: Objection to form. 5 and to track down workers and let them know. 5 THE WITNESS: I don't know if that's a 6 Q. So for example, if a company sold a 6 principle of industrial hygiene or just a sort of a 7 product that was determined to be dangerous, should 7 moral value. 8 that company as a general principle of industrial 8 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) So as a moral -- from 9 hygiene go back and try to warn people where that 9 a moral perspective, a company should never put 10 product was installed or used? 10 profits before worker safety. True? 11 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 11 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection. Form. 12 THE WITNESS: Well, it's an interesting 12 THE WITNESS: You know, it depends on what 13 goal, but clearly there's huge impracticalities. You 13 you mean by worker safety. There is some inherent 14 would have to set some criteria for deciding who was 14 risk in any profession in any industry, and I'm not 15 sufficiently exposed to go to all that trouble. You 15 sure that we should shut all industry down because 16 know, I don't know what you could do in terms of 16 there is the possibility of accident or illness. We 17 locating everyone who had used or come in contact 17 have to -- 18 with a particular product. 18 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) That's not what I 19 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Well, you could give 19 asked. I said, in terms of -- well, let me just move 20 generalized warnings in the media, couldn't you? 20 on. 21 A. Well, that's certainly occurred, and 21 Would you agree that the greater the 22 societal view has certainly changed on all these 22 danger inherent in the product, the stronger the 23 things. 23 warning is necessary? 24 Q. Would you agree with me that safety is a 24 A. Well, that's a general precept, sure. 25 primary concern when selling products to be used by 25 Q. And the principle that the greater the 38 (Pages 149 to 152) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 153 Page 155 1 danger inherent in the product, the stronger the 1 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 2 warning is necessary, dates back at least to the 2 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 3 1960's. Would you agree with that? 3 THE WITNESS: Well, again, as of '85 to 4 A. I don't -- I can't put a date on it 4 '86, that time period, the hazard communications 5 exactly. I don't know that there's a specific point 5 standard required that chemical products be evaluated 6 in time when that was accepted. 6 with respect to hazard and that that information be 7 MR. PLACITELLA: If you want to take a 7 provided to all purchasers, at least all businesses 8 five-minute break, I'm going to look at my notes, but 8 that purchase those products. 9 I think I'm almost done. 9 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) Let me ask the 10 (Recess from 12:40 p.m. to 12:45 p.m.) 10 question this way. Have the OSHA regulations ever 11 Q. (BY MR. PLACITELLA) I've looked at my 11 absolved a manufacturer from providing warnings to 12 notes. You've been very patient, and I don't have 12 workers about the use -- about the dangers posed by 13 any other questions at this time other than to ask 13 products? 14 you to take a look at the stuff we asked you to look 14 MR. SCHMIEDER: Objection to form. 15 for, okay? 15 MR. HOOPER: Object to form. 16 A. Okay. 16 THE WITNESS: Well, they didn't have a 17 Q. All right. I appreciate your time. 17 regulation that they could enforce until hazard 18 A. Yeah, thank you. 19 MR. PLACITELLA: I'm done with my 18 communication came along. Back in the 70's, if 19 people wanted to say you're going to use this 20 questioning. 20 chemical Z and you don't need to know what it is, 21 MR. HOOPER: Anybody else have questions 21 it's part of your job, use it, you're going to be 22 for the witness? 22 fine, then that was that. And OSHA nor anybody else 23 MR. SUSS: Yeah. This is Ron Suss. I 23 could say anything about that. OSHA could come in 24 have a couple of questions for the witness. 24 and monitor for specific compounds that had standards 25 25 and determine if there were over exposures, but Page 154 Page 156 1 EXAMINATION 1 beyond that, they could not require the employer or 2 BY MR. SUSS: 2 manufacturer to provide that information. 3 Q. Mr. White, you've testified that you have, 3 MR. PLACITELLA: Okay, that's all the 4 based upon your career and work, familiarity with 4 questions. Thank you. 5 OSHA regulations. Is that correct? 6 A. Yes. 5 (Deposition was concluded at 12:50 p.m.) 6 *** 7 Q. Under OSHA regulation, is there an 7 8 obligation on the employer of a worker to provide 8 9 warnings and monitor the safety at the worker's 9 10 workplace? 10 11 A. Yeah. It is the responsibility of the 11 12 employer to assure that all of the OSHA regulations 12 13 are met, and in general to be responsible for the 13 14 safety and welfare of those workers. 14 15 MR. SUSS: Thank you, sir. 15 16 MR. PLACITELLA: That's it, Ron? 16 17 MR. SUSS: That's it. 17 18 MR. PLACITELLA: Okay. Anybody else? 18 19 Now I have one question. 19 20 FURTHER EXAMINATION 20 21 BY MR. PLACITELLA: 21 22 Q. Mr. White, do the OSHA regulations absolve 22 23 a manufacturer from providing proper warnings 23 24 concerning the dangers inherent in the use of its 24 25 products? 25 39 (Pages 153 to 156) Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 2 STATE OF UTAH ) ) ss. 3 COUNTY OF SALT LAKE ) 4 I, Vicky McDaniel, Registered Professional 5 Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of Utah, do hereby certify: 6 That prior to being examined, the witness, 7 KENNETH L. WHITE, was by me duly sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth; 8 That said deposition was taken down by me 9 in stenotype on February 6, 2009, at the place herein named, and was thereafter transcribed and that a true 10 and correct transcription of said testimony is set forth in the preceding pages; 11 I further certify that, in accordance with 12 Rule 30(e), a request having been made to review the transcript, a reading copy was sent to Mr. Hooper for 13 the witness to read and sign before a notary public and then return to me for filing with Mr. Placitella. 14 I further certify that I am not kin or 15 otherwise associated with any of the parties to said cause of action and that I am not interested in the 16 outcome thereof. 17 WITNESS MY HAND AND OFFICIAL SEAL this 13th day of February, 2009. 18 19 20 Vicky McDaniel, CSR, RMR 21 Notary Public Residing in Salt Lake County 22 23 24 25 Page 157 Page 158 1 Case: Bird vs. 3M, et al. Case No.: L-3599-08 AS 2 Reporter: Vicky McDaniel Date taken: February 6, 2009 3 WITNESS CERTIFICATE 4 I, KENNETH L. WHITE, HEREBY DECLARE: 5 That I am the witness in the foregoing transcript; that I have read the transcript and know 6 the contents thereof; that with these corrections I have noted, this transcript truly and accurately 7 reflects my testimony. 8 PAGE/LINE CHANGE/CORRECTION REASON 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 ____ No corrections were made. 16 17 I, KENNETH L. WHITE, HEREBY DECLARE UNDER THE PENALTIES OF PERJURY OF THE LAWS OF THE UNITED STATES 18 OF AMERICA AND THE LAWS OF THE STATE OF UTAH THAT THE FOREGOING IS TRUE AND CORRECT. 19 20 KENNETH L. WHITE 21 SUBSCRIBED and SWORN to at , 22 , this day of , 23 200 . 24 25 Notary Public Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 40 (Pages 157 to 158) Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 159 A abate 39:7 42:6 abated 34:11 42:24 44:21 45:3 abatement 21:20,21,25 32:7,12,15,16,17 33:21 34:23 35:12 37:1,9 38:11 39:2 40:1,6,23 42:21 44:6 44:9,18,24 abatements 41:3 abating 38:9 39:18 40:14 41:9,17 able 23:11 59:1 71:22 96:15 101:3 113:20 117:17 118:8 119:2 119:24 122:10 absolutely 25:7 36:22 44:12 49:2 120:10 141:15 absolve 154:22 absolved 155:11 accept 27:8 accepted 153:6 accident 152:16 accurate 118:25 accurately 101:19 102:14 158:6 acted 94:16 action 1:4 157:15 actual 20:2,7 59:4 62:7 102:23 111:14 acute 68:5 acutely 68:8 add 119:19 122:10,11 addition 16:11 additional 16:16 86:19 92:9 96:9 101:3 addresses 134:24 136:24 adds 122:21 adjacent 59:9 60:1 adjectives 131:2 Administration 21:10 admit 100:24 104:20 advice 21:5,20 22:1 advise 93:5 aerosol 47:21 48:15,21 147:5 agencies 30:15 agency 30:2,7,17 ago 31:11 57:6 93:22 100:18 101:2 104:2 138:6 agree 26:9 28:19 40:11 41:21 47:3 48:22 49:24 65:16,21,25 66:6 67:7 79:1 91:9 94:10 96:13 97:12 99:21 102:21 112:8 114:23 122:2 123:17 124:3 129:21 145:24 147:17 148:2,9,14 149:9,23 150:24 151:5,13,16 152:1,21 153:3 ahead 32:4,11,13 77:1 AHERA 15:4 AIHA 18:19 air 33:23 34:14,17,19 34:20,21 39:9,12 40:2,18 41:3 42:16 42:23 43:14 44:18 48:15 50:1 59:15 92:8 147:15 airborne 48:21 al 1:5 17:10 47:20 158:1 alert 64:20 67:22 ALEXIS 3:7 alleged 85:10 86:4 allow 94:5 allowing 58:2 alluded 109:10 alternative 144:15 ambient 128:21 130:2 Amended 17:13 amendoza@mdmc-l... 3:10 America 78:12 158:18 American 18:14 141:17,19 amosite 39:4,7,11 amount 84:19 92:5 139:13,14,17 amphibole 78:24 79:3 82:9 analysis 32:1 119:5 123:20 and/or 55:1 anecdotal 145:18 animal 96:18,20 97:2 97:18 animals 96:15 97:3 ANSI 67:5 answer 20:20 37:14 41:22 52:1 67:13 88:17,22 89:1 113:15 114:5,13 122:23 141:4 answered 17:20 24:11 41:21 57:15 answering 114:3 answers 16:18 60:12 73:18,25 anybody 52:16 86:24 93:19 124:15 153:21 154:18 155:22 anyway 112:16 125:20 apologize 6:2 appear 63:21 131:6 appearances 5:10 appeared 55:11 63:15 112:6 115:4 appears 63:12 appliance 118:15 appliances 117:24 application 44:8 applied 31:1 44:15,23 60:2 99:21,25 100:3 100:5 140:9 apply 66:3 86:11 124:7 applying 44:25 appreciate 153:17 approach 40:19,22 approaches 55:24 appropriate 33:24 34:9 40:12,14,16 42:9 68:14 69:1 approved 52:10,18 archives 23:4 area 32:13 36:11 71:19 87:6 areas 34:10 argue 86:18 arisen 85:5 117:3 arrive 120:15 article 129:25 articles 4:15 10:6 12:3 13:2,14,17,20,25 14:3,5,12,13,14,22 15:16 16:11 17:8 asbestiform 83:19,21 asbestos 1:5 4:14,15 7:11,14,24 8:11 9:15 9:16,22 10:7,11,19 10:22 11:2,5,8,14,20 12:11,15,25 13:3,9 14:1,5 15:2 16:3,6,8 17:11 18:10,25 19:14 21:7,12,20 22:3,17 23:10,17,22 24:2,8 24:16 26:23 28:1,13 28:20 29:6,11,24 30:4,9,19 31:13 32:10,22 33:7,10,15 34:20,25 35:14,25 36:11,16,20 37:18,24 40:22 41:3 42:7,24 43:12,13 45:9 49:13 49:17 54:7 57:22 59:11 60:11 63:2,12 64:6,21 65:1 68:21 71:14,23,24 72:4,9 72:12,16,23,25 74:12 74:25 75:4,15 78:6 78:24 79:3 80:2,23 81:5 82:2 83:3 84:12 85:4 86:14 87:10,16 87:16,24 88:3,4,6,18 89:14 91:3,19 92:3,6 92:24 93:20,23 94:24 96:4,24 97:3,17 106:10 109:3,9 110:1 110:2,24,25 111:21 111:24 112:1,5,12,14 112:15,18 113:4,6 114:21,22 115:3,7,11 115:15 117:2 120:25 125:9 126:3 128:21 129:10,24 130:16 132:13,19,25 138:11 142:5 143:8,19,21,22 146:8,13,14 asbestos-containing 31:2,7,21 40:6 41:9 43:17,24 44:2,14 46:4 49:5 56:25 58:9 60:6 62:13,16 69:9 69:15 71:4 75:11 76:8,16,22 77:6,11 92:13 95:21 124:7 132:10 144:4 146:2 147:12 asbestos-exposed 86:22 asbestos-free 71:20 109:12 aside 41:6,15 42:4 asked 22:7 24:4 74:5 82:25 83:2,9 85:3 95:19 118:17 144:23 145:8 152:19 153:14 asking 36:23 41:15 68:24 76:20 110:21 134:9 asks 5:8 aspect 39:5 aspects 13:3 assess 98:14 assessing 55:11 122:9 139:18 assessment 17:8 59:2 140:21 associated 148:3,11 157:15 Association 50:23 51:3 56:24 141:18 assume 52:15 53:21 54:11 70:25 assumed 38:14 assuming 53:6 assure 21:14 42:10 154:12 ate 132:13 attack 93:21 attempt 144:9 attend 18:13 attended 18:8 attention 107:1 111:16 attorneys 5:9 14:22 15:13 16:13 audio 5:3 authored 10:6 18:23 authority 16:2,5,8 authors 11:25 12:2,9 AUTOMATION 3:6 available 75:10 83:5 98:18 116:18,24,25 119:4 Avenue 2:4 3:8 average 38:22 aware 24:23 25:1,21 26:3 30:17,21 33:4 35:11 59:7,13 72:11 72:13 78:5 86:21 96:20 97:2 118:3,6 133:13 134:11,23 136:7,13,23 137:2,5 a.m 1:13 50:18,18 103:6,6 B B 109:4,24 123:3 back 7:21 12:16 23:5 39:16 46:16 47:5 50:13,19,24 53:19 55:20 56:10 58:12 65:17 66:2,18 68:20 94:13,22 96:2 97:11 Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 160 100:16,25 102:3 107:7,10 108:22 117:20 123:22 142:24 143:1,17 144:2,8,18 145:6,16 146:7 147:13 149:7 149:10 150:3,9 151:13 153:2 155:18 background 20:18,24 89:8,10,14 129:21 bag 64:2 bagged 34:8 bagging 33:25 bags 61:13 62:12 106:24 bailiwick 148:7,22 Bank 2:5 base 90:14 97:20 122:15 based 41:15 51:16,17 59:20 75:13 80:17 85:14 125:5 137:16 154:4 basic 60:9 basis 78:13 110:22 batch 80:1 began 71:20 143:24 behalf 5:21,24 7:15 behavior 69:20,23 Behle 1:17 believe 8:22 14:7 23:19 24:5,8 25:3 26:13 27:1 30:15 31:16 36:24 43:4,6,21,25 51:1,14 53:9,11,22 58:10 61:7,25 74:16 74:19 76:7 79:4,10 83:20 89:21 90:4,9 96:5 98:13 113:22,24 118:13 120:24 123:9 141:1 151:24 Bell 2:19 5:13 Benay 16:17 benefits 151:8 Berman 25:6,14,16 26:1,4,10,13 27:8,10 27:19 90:20 best 73:4 94:8 95:3 122:8 135:10 143:22 144:14 better 5:7 49:25 50:4 51:13 64:5,19,25 65:4 66:9 93:11 102:1,2 112:9 beyond 39:13 85:22 98:10 156:1 big 34:17 39:6 85:17 125:7 135:4 bill 10:3 billed 9:23 binder 4:15 14:16,20 14:21 binders 13:2 biology 96:9 Bird 1:1,2 10:2 16:16 17:18 59:3 70:2,5 86:17 91:19 98:22 99:11,22 100:4 101:12 102:14 103:14 105:1 106:17 109:25 110:22 113:5 113:17 114:10 116:6 117:3 118:5,10 132:12 158:1 Bird's 98:10,14 113:11 120:24 121:9,16 131:5 139:6,11 140:3 bit 5:7 78:20 84:21 Blackberry 116:20 blockbuster 137:2 Board 141:19 Boilermakers 126:22 book 12:8 books 12:6,8,10,14,25 born 20:25 bottom 103:8 105:12 115:17 127:20 131:4 Box 3:9 boxes 61:13 break 50:12,17 103:3 153:8 breaking 43:8 breathe 92:14,21 breathed 132:1 breathes 92:8 breathing 92:3 118:20 bright 48:20 bring 14:18 32:6 36:16 36:20 bringing86:14 91:19 broad 78:1 79:9 Brodeur 12:25 brought 87:10,16 brute 42:15 bucket 63:13 64:12 65:9 103:25 buckets 62:12 111:25 building 21:6 22:5,24 31:12,15 32:24,25 76:25 85:17 buildings 21:11 22:2 22:16 built 31:15 bulk 80:22 bunny 35:21,22 burned 140:8 bus 6:4 business 12:12,13 23:3 109:18 businesses 155:7 buy 73:6 bystander 85:10 86:4 86:5,13 105:4,5,9,16 105:18,24 106:6,12 106:18 107:14,17,23 C C 2:1 5:1 CALABRIA 3:13 California 2:9 9:12 78:12 call 12:7 18:18 35:21 35:22 143:2 144:13 called 22:22 48:15 57:23 147:23 call-in 6:2 Canada 78:11 Canadian 78:9 79:6,22 80:5,6,13 cancer 17:11 23:18 76:3 90:2 109:15 111:12,17 127:12,13 cans 62:12 102:13,14 111:25 capable 23:17,22 28:1 28:14,17,20 29:12,15 29:17,24 30:4,9,19 Carbide 3:1 5:24 80:11 carbon 7:12 carcinogen 68:16 69:3 69:6 74:18 carcinogens 94:19 care 22:17 career 85:11 119:11 132:1 154:4 careful 38:1 68:10 97:15 145:20 carefully 47:15 CARPENTER 3:8 carpenters 126:21,25 135:14,18,25 carpentry 129:6 CARUSO 3:2 case 4:14 6:23 8:20,21 8:24 9:15 10:2 13:10 15:14 16:14 17:1,14 17:24 18:6 19:3,19 19:20 20:14 55:10 58:16,20,24 59:1 61:25 84:18 87:3 91:17 99:17 100:14 132:9 145:4 158:1,1 cases 7:7,10,12,15,16 7:188:11,12,16,18 9:8,16,22 20:5,15 73:15 74:6 75:8 97:16 102:5,7 127:2 137:16,17 146:20 causation 96:6,8,12,14 97:13 139:9 cause 24:3,17,22,25 25:8,12,22 26:23 27:13,19 28:9 29:1 68:5 88:12 96:21 119:16,20 121:21 126:19 138:11,15 157:15 caused 97:23 120:22 121:9 causes 24:8 27:2,6 122:7 causing 23:17,22 28:2 28:14,20 29:12,18,25 30:5,10,19,23 75:24 88:7 139:6 145:21 caution 66:22 67:2,9 67:16 68:1,9,15 69:2 69:6,9,14 CBS/WESTINGHO... 3:17 CC 88:8,9,10 Center 2:14 certain 46:13 108:17 110:21 130:4 150:3 certainly 11:8,15 12:1 15:24 21:12,24 22:15 22:25 88:6 89:8 94:17 100:24 118:18 120:2 125:13 135:16 138:17 148:12 149:6 149:13 150:21,22 CertainTeed 78:19 138:24 139:1,5,10 140:1,12 141:1 CERTIFICATE 157:1 158:3 certified 34:6 81:4 certify 157:5,11,14 cetera 118:21,21 chance 88:11 changed 54:4 55:23 90:1 150:22 CHANGE/CORRE... 158:8 changing 56:4 chaos 40:18 chaotic 40:23 charge 9:17,18 charged 41:9 42:21 cheaply 78:10 check 81:24 chemical 7:11 142:15 155:5,20 Chicago 2:20 children 21:2 chose 52:4 Chris 88:22 CHRISTOPHER 2:3 chrysotile 23:17,22 24:2,8,16,21,25 25:11,22 26:15,23 27:2,6,12,19 28:1,9 28:14,19 29:1,11,17 29:24 30:4,9,18,23 35:1,7,24 42:25 79:7 79:22 80:6,14,23 87:13 88:18 89:4,14 89:20,23 90:6,10 91:4,10,15 92:13,20 92:24 94:23 95:21 96:21 97:3 119:16 138:10,15 chrysotile-contamin... 92:15 93:6,17 95:11 cigarette 49:3 circles 94:18 cite 27:4,11 28:7 30:2 30:7 58:19 79:18 90:19 134:20 136:20 cited 13:19 25:14 60:18 62:25 City 1:19 20:25 Civil 1:4 claims 105:19 107:24 Clayton 12:8 15:18 46:12,15 50:22 51:18 54:19 55:7,10 56:23 58:7,13 Clayton's 51:17 Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 161 clean 21:17 34:20 44:10 cleaning 45:2,9 cleanup 34:9,10 44:13 clear 42:3 67:1 91:16 112:10 132:12 136:7 clearly 150:13 clear-cut 68:4 75:23 97:16 client 24:15 clients 20:1,6 21:5 23:15,16,20,21 close 27:6,15 117:12 clothes 45:20 86:20 92:1,8 93:25 94:5 clothing 35:15 36:16 37:2 42:17 45:11 86:15 87:10,17 91:20 92:6,13,16,19,24 93:6,17,20 94:12,19 95:12,22 clouds 47:21 Coast 80:10 code 141:12,16,21 codified 67:4 145:2 COHEN 2:4 cohort 76:3,4,6 123:8 124:5,6 125:7 133:3 135:4 collection 14:9 15:23 Colorado 2:10 come 8:25 14:4 20:6 32:12,17 50:13 59:1 59:21 61:3 71:24 73:10 74:6 94:7 96:3 112:13 118:24 136:14,15 140:20 145:1 150:17 155:23 comes 12:23 13:1 37:21 67:24 92:7 103:25 113:12 120:7 coming 6:1 12:17 47:7 73:5 comment 69:25 116:5 119:22 commercial 79:5 committee 12:7 common 94:3 communication 142:13 144:25 148:20 155:18 communications 155:4 companies 7:23 55:1 company 21:23 24:1 32:7,17,18 43:20 81:13,23 148:2,10,15 149:2,17,25 150:6,8 151:7,17 152:2,9 compare 122:14 compared 54:10 58:4 76:13 89:11 complaint 16:18 17:21 complex 147:6 compliance 56:2 components 146:13 composition 142:15 compound 14:11 15:17,20 31:2,7 32:21,25 33:6,9,14 35:5,13 36:10,17,20 37:2,10 38:9 39:19 40:15 41:10,17 42:7 42:22 43:18,24 44:3 44:15,21,23 45:2,10 46:4,24 47:1,12 49:5 51:20 52:17 53:1,8 54:7 55:2 56:8 57:1 58:9,23 59:10,11 60:2,7,15,22 61:1,10 62:8,13,16 63:11 65:16,19 69:10,15 70:16,20 71:4,15 72:5,13,23 73:1 74:12 75:11,16 76:9 76:16,22 77:2,6,11 78:7 79:23 80:7,15 80:21 81:15,22 82:3 82:13,23 83:3,12,23 84:2,8 85:6,15,20 86:7,9,11 98:23 99:20,25 100:17 101:6,19 103:15,18 103:24 109:3,9,25 110:23 111:25 112:6 112:9,11 115:23 120:7 124:8 126:3,13 130:10,13 131:6 132:1,2,14,20 133:2 133:15,19,21,24 134:3,6,11,25 135:8 135:15,19 136:9,25 137:6 compounds 123:19 126:2 132:23 155:24 compressor 8:3,10 computer 148:23 ConAgra 20:3,11 concern 72:24 146:9 146:14 150:25 concerned 146:15 148:7 concerning 13:9,25 18:24 31:6 46:3 60:14,21 105:23 141:9 142:2 154:24 concerns 22:9 concluded 30:18 58:25 75:13 156:5 conclusion 29:24 30:3 30:8 127:15,20,21 conclusions 47:9 128:2 condition 21:15 38:11 conditions 43:11 44:6 44:21,22 conduct 13:8 52:18 conducted 30:25 31:5 43:22 54:25 69:21 128:14 cone 49:2 conference 18:14,15 18:17,17 31:11 conjunction 54:19 55:7 56:24 connection 21:19 consequences 43:7,9 consider 37:10 39:9 91:18 considerably 88:14 90:1 considered 31:21 38:9 83:19 103:22 146:6,8 consistent 47:2 104:10 constituent 32:1 construction 17:9 77:19 85:23 118:1 124:15 125:10 128:22 129:13 130:3 130:23 consulted 7:24 8:12 9:14 consumer 74:19 148:23 consumers 148:2,4 contact 150:17 contain 21:11 31:6 35:13 83:12,24 contained 31:1 32:2,22 33:9,14 35:6 60:11 83:3 84:2 110:2,24 112:12 115:15 container 64:17 103:11 104:4 105:15 110:1,23 113:10 115:16 containers 61:13 106:25 112:4 115:19 containing 36:10 45:10 82:3 84:13 143:9,19 146:14 containment 33:23 34:14 39:22 40:3 42:16 44:6 45:7,14 45:16,18,24 contains 33:6 42:7 112:14 contaminant 50:1 contaminants 40:18 80:25 contaminated 36:11 79:7,12,23 80:15 82:4,14 83:14,21 84:2 92:20 96:3 contamination 82:9 84:20 content 31:14 70:19 71:9,14 132:25 contents 71:3 158:6 continue 82:17 continued 129:24 continuing 18:8 contractor 55:10 107:6 contradict 25:3,5 contribute 132:15 contributed 120:6 132:4 139:21 140:13 141:2 contributes 122:19 140:17 control 58:5 94:7 143:13 144:15 controls 143:7,18 144:3 146:3 controversial 87:5 convenience 45:25 Cooper 4:3 copies 19:11 copy 9:1 14:21 15:11 62:1 157:12 Corn 74:2 corner 6:18 CORP 3:12 corporate 7:17 Corporation 2:17 3:6 4:1,1 5:12,22,22 correct 29:9,10 48:5 51:2 53:18 54:20 55:3 74:9,15 95:22 99:25 105:24 110:3 111:22 123:3,15 134:21 138:5 142:21 154:5 157:10 158:18 corrections 158:6,15 corroborate 102:6 corroborating 107:9 corroborative 99:4 100:8,10 101:18 102:22,25 cost 45:25 counsel 24:14,19 42:20 74:5 85:3 92:12,19 93:5,14 95:5,9 counseled 23:15,21,24 count 108:23 countenanced 52:10 counting 32:11 country 26:19 County 1:2 17:15 157:3,21 couple 6:1,1 140:6,12 153:24 course 11:9,17 34:3,5 35:16 68:9 73:15 78:15 92:4 93:13 100:1,1 118:16 129:17 148:22 courses 11:3,6,7 15:2,4 18:9 court 1:1 5:8 9:5 10:10 10:13 courthouses 21:11 COURTNEY 4:3 courtroom 95:19 covered 142:5 coworkers 100:14 cplacitella@cprlaw.... 2:6 create 49:5 created 56:8 credence 55:5 criteria 150:14 criticizing 106:17 crocidolite 88:5,11 Crump 25:6,14,16 26:2,4,10,13 27:9,10 27:20 90:20 CSR 1:25 157:20 cubic 146:11,18 147:1 cumulative 117:2 120:18 121:24 122:5 Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. 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White 2-6-2009 Page 163 epidemiologic 133:6 epidemiological 76:1,2 90:16,17 96:1 epidemiologically 87:1 epidemiology 96:6,8 96:14 97:13,19,22 132:16,18 133:1 equipment 33:24 34:2 143:15 Eric 3:18 6:5 Esay 16:16 especially 87:13 ESQ 2:3,8,13,19 3:2,7 3:13,184:2 essentially 12:7 35:19 45:18,23 48:16 58:5 estimate 117:1 118:14 120:18 121:24 et 1:5 17:10 47:20 118:21,21 158:1 ethics 141:12,16,21 evaluated 155:5 evaluation 127:18,22 128:3 evaluations 128:14,15 event 39:19 eventually 143:23 everybody 45:22 51:13 89:11 evidence 96:1 99:4 100:8,10 101:3,18 102:22 107:9 evolved 146:17 exact 108:8,11 111:13 140:20 exactly 25:23 58:25 61:14 63:14 149:8 151:3 153:5 Examination 4:9,10,10 6:12 154:1,20 examine 61:9 examined 6:10 157:6 example 12:25 35:25 49:3 68:22 77:16 86:7 96:16 105:3 110:17 111:14 117:10 150:6 examples 62:22 exceeded 58:9 exception 47:9 excess 49:14 excursion 57:18,20 58:10 excuse 102:10 executives 72:4,24 exhibits 19:21 exist 44:22 58:3 148:22 existing 54:10,12 56:2 89:18 90:17 121:12 expect 48:20 experience 80:20 experienced 42:19 expert 7:18 10:10,18 17:5 19:3 62:22 67:12 69:24 98:14 100:24 116:1 139:9 151:15 experts 26:19 52:5 explain 25:7 explained 147:19 explanation 147:25 expose 52:25 exposed 53:1 54:7 57:1 75:4 86:17 87:9,9,15 90:6 92:2 93:23 97:3 98:23 99:7 117:23 119:1 123:6,18 125:2 125:9 129:9,24 130:16 131:25 136:25 137:6 150:15 exposition 18:15 exposure 7:12 15:19 17:11 21:6 22:3 28:19 30:4 37:11,18 38:8,15,15,24 39:10 39:18 40:1,20 43:14 43:16,23 44:1 48:9 49:12,16,25 50:1,4 54:3 57:8,22,24,25 58:4 59:2,4 68:16 69:3 76:14 85:4,10 86:13,13,19 87:23 88:18 89:3,4,7,8,9,13 89:22 90:9 91:2,10 91:11,18,23 92:1,9 93:10,12 95:3,11,15 95:21 97:7 99:11 105:5,24 106:6,12 107:14,17 117:2,4 118:5 119:16,17,19 120:6,19,25 121:9,15 121:24 122:3,10,16 122:17,18 126:4 132:3 137:11 139:5,9 139:19,20 140:1,11 140:18,21 141:1 144:4 147:11 exposures 7:12 37:24 38:21,22 42:10 44:7 50:2 56:8 58:6,6,8,22 58:23 59:9 60:1 86:4 87:5 91:14 105:6,9 105:16,19 107:23 119:3,6 120:22 122:12 123:22,25 125:13,16,16 126:19 146:5,8 150:4 155:25 expressed 72:24 ext 3:15 extending 123:13 extent 27:8 43:13 44:4 50:2 62:24 70:2 75:12 90:24 91:23 96:17 101:2 137:9 146:5 148:12 151:11 extremely 28:22 87:21 97:7 119:15 eye 47:22 48:25 146:19 146:22 e-mail 17:6 e-mails 6:2 E.P.A 24:24 25:10,18 25:21 26:5,11,14,21 27:5,9,11,18 F fabric 36:7,9 face 39:14 Facility 22:22 fact 28:12 31:10 32:6 51:18 72:3 80:18 86:21 96:7 115:8 124:22 132:7 134:4 factor 118:24 139:6 factors 87:4 147:4 Fairfield 3:3 fairly 38:17 48:18 fall 46:21 familiar 7:4 30:12 46:2 47:17 62:15 66:1,17 70:11 77:15,19 78:21 99:24 112:3 familiarity 154:4 families 36:17,21 37:3 86:22 94:8 family 20:23 87:9 95:20 far 26:22 46:23 54:21 59:15 73:17 87:2 91:25 111:8 143:1,17 149:7 fault 128:12 fear 109:15,17 145:21 feasible 50:3 143:11 February 1:13 157:9 157:17 158:2 federal 21:9,10 22:2 24:7,15,19 feel 118:24 feeling 27:1 51:11 feet 147:1 felt 31:13 146:11 fiber 29:7,9 34:25 35:3 35:4,6 88:8,9,10 fibers 34:20 45:22 field 11:1 20:2,10,10 55:5 figure 119:23 figures 13:19 file 17:1,24 19:9 63:7 filing 157:13 fill 77:2 filtered 38:19 filters 34:18 final 34:10,10 find 14:3 25:23 31:19 33:13 46:18 59:20 72:20 73:22 82:16,18 107:5 111:13 115:19 133:3 135:3 142:14 fine 112:21,23 155:22 finish 114:4,5 finished 88:16,21 89:2 114:2,2 firm 17:20 21:22 32:12 firms 14:3 first 6:9 7:20 17:13 34:13 44:24 53:22 68:20,22 93:21 98:10 99:3 110:5 118:12 127:21 143:3 147:10 five 8:16 10:4 15:7,18 18:9 23:7 104:2 146:9,18 147:1 five-minute 50:12,17 153:8 Floor 2:14 3:19 flow 44:18 focuses 132:19 folks 35:9 59:24 107:6 123:8 137:3 follow 36:14 41:12 43:2,3,7 130:11 followed 141:13 145:23 follows 6:10 followup 136:18 Foods 20:3 foot 146:11,19 force 42:15 Ford 97:22,23 foregoing 158:5,18 forever 32:25 forget 46:14 72:7 96:10 form 20:19 24:18 25:25 26:6,16 27:21 27:22 28:10,21 29:13 29:19 36:4,5 37:12 40:4 41:11,19 42:8 43:1 46:19 47:4,11 48:11,12 49:7,18 51:9,23 52:6,12,19 53:2,25 54:14 55:8 56:12,19 57:4,13,14 58:17 59:12 63:17 64:8,14 65:3,10,20 67:11,18 68:18 69:4 70:13 71:5 72:6,14 73:2 74:21 76:23 77:24 79:3 81:8 82:5 83:16 84:4,14 87:19 88:6 89:24 90:12 91:12,21 92:22 93:8 94:15 95:1,23 96:22 97:5,14,24 98:3,5,16 98:25 99:13,14 100:11 101:14,25 102:16 106:1,7,14,19 107:19 108:9 109:16 110:12 112:25 113:23 114:24 115:5 116:7 119:9,24 120:5 120:8,9 122:20 124:10 126:15 127:7 129:11 130:17 131:17 132:6 139:12 139:23 140:15 142:18 144:11 148:18 149:5,12 150:11 151:2,9,20 152:4,11 155:1,2,14 155:15 former 60:25 forming 19:19 84:17 forms 96:24 formulations 73:5 forth 17:15 157:10 found 15:21 33:9 34:25 130:6,6 135:19 Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 164 137:13 four 8:16 11:18 13:19 16:15 17:7,18 88:10 118:17 free 72:17 111:21,24 112:1,6,18 113:4 114:21,22 115:3,7,11 frequency 118:19 131:14 frequently 65:22 front 16:25 63:16 64:9 64:21,23 65:1,8 66:10 84:22 112:6,9 136:10 full 11:23 33:21 58:1 full-time 131:21 Fulton 17:15 function 98:13 136:3 funny 93:1 134:8 further 4:10 117:16 154:20 157:11,14 G G 5:1 Gates 2:14 5:19 gee 118:25 general 6:19 12:5 13:18 20:1 21:9 22:8 22:9 37:22 50:3 51:10 56:14 57:23 63:23 77:15 78:8 80:17 130:7 142:1 149:21,24 150:8 152:1,24 154:13 generalized 150:20 generally 19:24 51:10 56:1 96:7 99:23 102:7 125:3 141:8 generated 132:13,19 generating 137:10 Georgia 2:7 7:20,25 8:8,15 9:17 14:6 15:13 16:14 17:12,15 17:16 51:3 52:4,10 52:25 60:6,14,15,21 60:25 61:10,21 62:7 62:17 69:8,13 70:19 70:24 71:2,13,14 72:3,25 73:15,19 74:7,11,13 75:10,14 78:6 79:22 80:7,14 82:3,13,21,22 83:2 83:11,23 84:7,10 85:3,5 98:21,23 99:10,17,20,24 100:15 101:6 103:15 103:17,24 106:5,12 107:15 110:8,10 111:24 115:13,23 118:4 123:19 124:8 131:25 132:9,14,20 132:21 133:2,3 135:24 getting 20:12,13 34:22 45:22 89:23 111:16 119:17 133:11,15,19 133:19,25 GINA 3:13 Gina.Calabria@wils... 3:15 give 12:19 22:8 32:4 52:5 105:1 113:18 121:3,18 135:24 137:4 147:24 150:19 given 4:15 19:3 22:1 36:15 38:16 51:18 52:16,23 55:5 62:12 96:16 146:3 147:20 gives 48:19 60:9 go 8:6 12:16 20:6 32:4 39:13,16 45:17 65:17 66:2,3,18 77:1 81:18 87:4 88:14 94:1,22 97:11 102:2 107:10 108:22 109:22 114:15 123:1,22 127:14 143:14 150:3 150:9,15 151:13 goal 73:4 150:13 goes 7:4 105:17 142:24 149:7,10 going 5:25 33:19 45:15 45:17 50:11,13 59:1 60:4 65:19,22 80:12 85:25 86:1 87:20,21 89:10 94:13 95:6 104:11 107:3 109:12 117:23 144:2,8,18 145:6,16 153:8 155:19,21 good 6:14,15 21:15 26:18,20 39:3 45:4 48:18 51:11,15,16 52:24 53:9 54:16 56:15 57:8 64:24 72:21 86:25 89:19 90:16 94:20 101:23 120:15 144:16 gosh 7:21 12:16 18:22 gotten 32:16 92:6 government 21:9 22:15 24:7,15,20 30:2 GP 103:10 104:24 105:19 107:7,25 109:2,11 117:3 120:19 Grant 3:19 great 26:19 77:18 80:21 113:8,17 147:3 greater 91:25 152:21 152:25 greatly 98:4 green 103:25,25,25 grew 20:23 group 51:19 GSA 22:14,18 23:1,6 23:11,16 24:2 guess 17:21 19:8 41:5 52:21 66:20 71:10 96:23 100:23 108:23 149:21 guidance 24:5 guys 45:14 106:25 123:23 Gypsum 46:14 50:23 51:3 56:24 100:21 107:8 H Haas 2:19 5:11,11,16 half 38:19 39:14 HAND 157:17 handling 34:17 hands 110:19 handyman 76:18 happen 60:1 102:7,8 happened 95:4,7,9 123:25 happens 96:17 hard 15:11 59:14 92:8 100:25 118:18 128:7 140:20 147:21 hazard 64:20 67:25 127:17,22 128:3,13 128:15 142:13 144:25 146:2 148:20 155:4,6,17 hazardous 68:9 144:9 144:14 146:6 hazards 22:23 141:10 142:3 145:15,16 heading 98:10 health 15:9 22:22 30:21 41:18 42:6 43:10,15 45:19 51:7 51:21 52:24 53:9,23 54:8 55:18 56:17 68:14 69:1,13,17,18 72:22 74:20 127:17 127:22 128:3,13,15 128:18 141:14,22 148:7 hear 99:2 heard 77:12,13 82:20 heavily 11:8 96:3 help 5:6 helped 112:20,23 helpful 51:7,22 53:23 55:18 HEPA 38:19 high 28:22 34:18 97:7 137:18 higher 58:2 highly 60:4 123:18 hire 81:23 hired 76:25 historical 12:24 15:18 46:5 historically 48:5 150:4 history 74:3 hit 97:21 Hodgson 17:12 25:17 90:20,21 91:1 138:1 138:9,17 hold 18:16 32:10 34:1 50:10 127:15 Holding 2:17 5:12 holes 77:3 home 12:11 20:13 36:17,20 37:2 85:6 85:16,17 86:14 87:10 87:16 91:19,19 92:7 93:17,20 94:2,6,11 94:19 96:3 homes 85:25 93:7 94:24 hoods 35:17 Hooper 2:8 5:8 20:19 26:6,16 27:21 28:21 36:4 41:19 42:8 47:4 48:11 49:8,18 51:9 51:23 52:6,12 53:2 53:25 54:14 56:12,19 57:13 59:12 61:18,19 61:20,21 65:10 67:18 68:18 71:5 72:14 73:2 74:21 82:5 84:14 87:19 88:16,21 90:12 91:12 96:22 99:14 100:11 102:16 106:1,19 110:12 114:5 120:8 124:10 126:15 127:7 129:11 130:17 144:11 145:9 148:18 149:5,12,20 150:11 151:2,9,20 152:4 153:21 155:2 155:15 157:12 hooper@wtklaw.com 2:11 hopefully 5:6 Horne 3:18 6:5,5 hour 9:18,20 50:12 hours 117:18 119:1 house 76:25 102:3 140:8,9 Housefeld 8:5 Howard 1:1 17:18 huge 150:13 hugely 109:1 human 47:22 96:18 97:9,10 100:22 hurt 55:22 husband 1:2 hygiene 7:10,13 10:24 11:7,10,18 12:6,9 14:12 15:16 16:1 18:14,15,17 20:2,8 50:4 54:23 57:6 67:8 93:10 94:3,18 141:9 141:17,20 142:2,9,22 143:7 144:2,8,22,25 145:6,14 146:1 147:8 147:19 148:1,10,15 149:1,17,24 150:9 151:6,17 152:2,6 hygienist 11:13 33:16 36:24 37:18 40:13 41:8,16 42:5,20 47:16 48:7 53:10 55:4 63:20 64:22 66:21 67:15 68:13,25 74:17 92:12,18 93:4 93:18 102:8 122:3 hygienists 48:5 49:25 55:20 66:25 94:12 141:13 143:2 144:19 147:23 hypothetical 53:4 Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 165 92:23,24 126:16 Hypothetically 126:17 H-a-a-s 5:16 H-o-r-n-e 6:5 I idea 52:3 94:21 100:19 ideal 151:10,12,22 identify 103:14,17 104:5 135:11 identity 142:15 IHI's 31:12 Illinois 2:20 illness 152:16 illustrate 19:22 immediate 68:5 imperfections 77:1 impinger 147:15,16 important 11:10 12:9 45:13 54:8,13 56:10 56:17 97:19 108:24 impossible 23:25 24:13 95:17 117:10 135:3,7 impracticalities 150:13 imprecise 131:12 improbable 23:25 24:12 95:25 incapable 30:23 include 86:13 included 83:23 84:7 123:20 128:25 129:15 includes 33:22 121:20 including 28:14 34:3 incorporated 80:14 increased 76:2 89:6,11 increasing 119:8 indicate 25:21 28:8 109:24 113:3 116:23 125:8 indicated 58:13,21 86:3 125:16 indicates 27:12 126:20 indicating 25:4 59:8 indication 48:8 industrial 7:10,13 10:24 11:7,10,13,18 12:6,9 14:12 15:16 16:1 18:14,15,17 20:2,8 33:16 36:24 37:17 40:13 41:7,16 42:4,20 47:16 48:4,7 49:24 50:4 53:10 55:4,19 57:6 63:20 64:22 66:21,25 67:8 67:15 68:13,25 74:17 92:11,18 93:4,10,18 94:3,12,18 102:8 122:2 141:9,10,13,17 141:20 142:2,3,5,8 142:22 143:2,7 144:2 144:7,19,21,24 145:6 145:14 146:1,2,22,25 147:8,18,23 148:1,9 148:15 149:1,17,24 150:8 151:6,17 152:2 152:6 industries 46:13 146:7 industry 17:9 51:19 54:17 57:10 93:22 94:4 152:14,15 inform 63:21 149:25 information 16:13 17:16 59:3 60:9,18 64:18 70:19,20,23 73:13,14,18 74:10 78:13,17 84:9 96:9 96:19 97:9 98:18 102:19 103:11 104:4 104:12,13,16,19 105:1,14,22 106:3,18 107:13 112:16 115:15 116:15,16,24 116:25 117:8 118:8,9 119:4,22,23 120:3,13 120:17,21 142:17 147:7 151:18 155:6 156:2 ingredients 144:9 inhalation 143:8,18 inhaled 132:13 inherent 152:13,22 153:1 154:24 initially 89:25 146:15 injury 97:23 inside 45:15 91:18 inspections 22:23,25 inspectors 145:19 install 135:14 143:24 installation 117:22 installed 35:25 135:7 150:10 installer 107:2 119:12 installers 76:6,7 119:18 134:1,2 135:12 installing 134:24 instance 140:19 instill 96:16 Institute 128:18 instruction 19:18 instrument 48:18 instruments 48:14 insufficient 116:16,25 117:8 119:22 120:13 120:17,21 insulation 39:4 129:6 insulators 146:16 integrating 48:16 intend 19:22 intended 90:5 intent 89:21 interactions 147:5 interested 61:15 63:7 115:9 157:15 interesting 45:12 102:6 150:12 interfering 116:22 intermittent 38:6,10 39:17,19,20,24 40:1 76:14 131:6,12 interrogatories 16:18 17:14,19 60:12 70:21 interrogatory 63:4 73:18,25 interview 60:20 investigated 142:23 investigation 142:9 invite 40:18 invoice 17:25 invoices 18:2 involve 22:23 146:12 involved 5:9 7:24 20:5 21:24 23:6 26:19 51:19 81:25 85:24 130:4 involving 128:23 in-place 80:22 ironclad 41:2 50:3 issue 28:17 79:17 136:24 issues 22:10,17,23 24:20 102:6 148:24 ITEMS 4:12 J JAMES 2:8 Jersey 1:1 2:5,15 3:3,9 3:14 4:4 124:16 135:18,25 Jim 8:22 61:20 job 19:25 34:23 39:15 42:6 44:18,24 76:21 77:5,11,15,18,23 86:10 89:19 91:24 107:4 126:10 137:6 144:16 155:21 jobs 39:2,15,15 85:19 104:23 106:21 Johns 78:18 Join 140:16 joint 14:11 15:17,20 31:2,7 32:21,25 33:6 33:9,14 35:5,13 36:10,17,20 37:1,10 38:9 39:19 40:15 41:9,17 42:7,22 43:17,24 44:2,15,21 44:23 45:2,10 46:4 46:24 47:1,12 49:5 51:20 52:17 53:1,8 54:6 55:2 56:8 57:1 58:9,23 59:9,10,11 60:2,7,15,22 61:1,10 62:8,13,16 63:11 65:15,19 69:9,15 70:16,20 71:4,15 72:5,13,23,25 74:12 75:11,16 76:8,16,22 77:6,11 78:7 79:23 80:7,15,21 81:14,21 82:3,13,23 83:3,12 83:23 84:2,8 85:6,15 85:20 98:23 99:20,25 100:17 101:6,18 103:15,18,24 109:3,9 109:25 110:23 111:25 112:6,9,11 115:23 120:7 123:19 124:7 126:2,3,13 130:9,13 131:5,25 132:2,14,20 133:14 133:19,20,24 134:3,5 134:11,25 135:7,15 135:19 136:8,25 137:6 journal 15:8 120:1,2,4 journals 15:7 JR1:1 2:8 judge 10:17 judgment 120:16 jury 94:23 K K 143:10 keep 12:10 13:24 19:5 19:9 22:16 38:21 40:19 52:4 114:3 keeping 52:10 Kemble 3:8 KENNEDY 2:9 KENNETH 1:11 4:8 6:8 157:7 158:4,17 158:20 kept 23:2 52:14 Kerns 8:22,23 61:25 kill 68:6 kin 157:14 kind 6:17 7:7 21:23 39:18 45:24 46:22 47:25 48:21 52:18 57:21 60:1 71:9,21 81:3 88:4 113:12 118:18 131:12,14 132:24 140:21 147:2 kinds 22:11 130:4 150:3 kitchen 100:18 knew 93:23 knock 68:6 knocked 32:5 knocking 126:7 know 12:5 13:1 15:18 16:21,22 20:6,24 22:5 26:22,24,25 28:3,24 29:2,3 30:11 33:11 37:7,8,14 40:17 42:1 44:7 45:12,18 46:16 49:9 49:19 51:12 52:7,13 52:23 53:3,4 54:1,21 56:15 57:17 58:7 59:16 63:1,5,10,12 63:15 64:1 65:5,12 67:2 68:3,7,19 69:7 69:21 70:15 71:8,17 71:19 72:15,19 73:22 74:2 76:11 77:4,9,21 78:3,16 79:21,25 80:1,5,6,13,16,22,24 81:17,20 82:2 83:4,5 83:11,14,18,22 84:1 84:6,10,17 87:2 88:8 91:13 93:23,24 94:5 96:10,16 97:16,18 99:16 100:16,22 101:9 102:20 103:16 103:19,23,23,23 Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 166 104:1,9,16 107:3 108:22 110:13,18 111:8,19,23 112:1,3 112:5 115:3,7 117:14 117:15,24 118:5,15 119:11,17 121:2 123:22 124:24 125:6 125:12 132:22,24 135:1,21 136:21,21 140:18,19 142:17 143:3,12 144:12 145:17,18,19 146:6,9 146:13 148:21 150:2 150:5,16,16 151:11 151:14,14 152:5,12 153:5 155:20 158:5 knowledge 57:9 59:25 97:20 121:12 122:15 146:17 known 47:17 78:21 94:17 knows 130:25 Kriegstein 2:13 5:17 5:17 122:20 139:23 140:16 K&L 2:14 5:19 K-r-i-e-g-s-t-e-i-n 5:18 L L 1:11 2:19 3:18 4:8 6:8 157:7 158:4,17 158:20 lab 31:25 label 63:21 64:6 66:23 66:23 67:17,19 68:22 110:1,6,11,24111:3 111:7,11,20 112:22 113:12 114:9 115:12 labeling 62:16,23 63:1 63:11,23 64:15 67:5 67:6,12 103:11 104:5 105:15,23 107:13,16 108:1,4 113:18 labels 102:12 113:9 laboratories 81:5 labs 81:16 lagged 124:12 Lake 1:19 20:25 157:3 157:21 language 37:22 largely 8:2 27:24 126:4 late 20:13 31:16 126:3 142:12 145:1 latency 123:11 124:12 Latimer 1:17 Lauderdale 16:19,21 laundry 92:14,16 law 1:1 10:10 14:3 40:10 43:8 72:10 LAWS 158:17,18 lawyer 61:21 70:24 71:2 74:8,8,13,14 lawyers 14:1,6 71:13 73:20 118:3 lay 110:19 leakage 34:22 learned 78:15 90:2 149:25 leave 45:23 leaves 36:11 lectures 22:8 legal 20:5,15 lettering 104:1 letting 94:1 let's 53:21 54:11 84:21 93:24,25 94:7 95:2 97:11 108:11 116:19 123:1 124:17 125:18 126:22 128:2 level 38:14 57:22 88:13 94:14 122:15 130:6 146:25 levels 15:19 28:23 40:19 41:3 43:17,23 44:2 48:21 54:9 56:1 56:9 90:23 97:7 128:21 129:9 130:2 137:13 life 9:5 light 48:14,17,20,23 49:2 81:18 147:5 liked 73:6 likelihood 70:1 limit 38:24 57:18,20 57:21,24 58:5,11 95:3 limited 7:25 limits 40:20 54:3 57:2 57:8 line 46:21 68:4 linear 122:22 lips 88:24 liquid-containing 147:15 list 9:6 11:20 12:17,20 13:5 42:17 listed 13:14 62:24 124:19,20 127:8,11 listing 134:1 lists 77:17 literature 13:2,12,18 16:12 75:5,6,9,14 liters 92:4 litigation 1:5 7:24 little 5:7 20:17 50:11 59:3 65:17 77:2 84:21 106:3 125:4 137:20 lived 75:20 LLP 2:9 3:8 loaded 37:13 38:5 locating 150:17 location 1:17 39:3 log 120:2,4 logic 98:1,5 logo 104:8,10,12 long 18:21 20:12 45:19 64:2 100:16 118:20 145:3 146:17 longer 112:11 Longo 15:18 46:9,16 47:9,13,20,24 147:2 Longo's 46:18 47:1 look 15:23 35:19 46:16 47:5,14 50:24 53:19 58:12 69:11 72:19 81:1,2 82:9 84:25 101:15 102:12,14 114:12,15 122:4 124:15 135:12,17 148:23 153:8,14,14 looked 11:19 47:10,13 55:13 73:17 74:4 132:23 133:14,16,24 134:11 136:19 147:16 153:11 looking 5:4 55:11 78:16 81:21 98:7 103:7 104:3 107:12 looks 128:9 137:3 lost 50:9 lot 10:25 11:1 21:8,21 22:21 23:5 75:7,21 126:23 131:18 lots 109:19 love 101:2 low 38:17,21 71:18 87:13,14,21 88:8,8 91:8,8,14 95:14 137:18 lower 88:14 lowers 68:7 lung 17:11 90:2 97:9 97:10,10 127:12 L-3599-08 1:3 158:1 _________ M_________ M 2:3 machine 48:18 magnification 81:3 main 1:18 15:9 37:20 97:22 maintain 9:1 maintained 61:5 maintenance 21:13 22:4 major 18:13 20:1 majority 20:7 makers 55:6 making 20:12 55:2 106:21 108:5 man 96:10 management 21:22 22:15 manufacture 51:20 manufacturer 8:3,3,9 154:23 155:11 156:2 manufacturers 78:19 manufacturing 80:9 143:21 Manville 78:18 Maple 2:4 MARKS 4:3 married 21:1 Martin 2:19 5:13 mask 38:19 master 10:23 17:14 master's 11:7 match 101:12 matched 102:23 matches 98:23 material 31:22 33:20 33:20 36:7,9 44:10 45:1 78:10 80:11,23 83:19 94:9 132:25 142:10,18 materials 13:5 19:18 20:15 21:12,14,15,16 32:7 33:4 34:8 40:7 44:8,17 73:10 75:8 78:17 83:21 matter 31:10 32:6 45:24 69:12 115:21 125:2 mattered 111:15 Maytag 4:1 5:22 McDANIEL 1:25 157:4,20 158:2 McELROY 3:8 mean 13:11 30:14 31:24,25 37:17 38:2 49:9,12,19 55:25 62:19 76:17 85:13 86:5 89:25 92:2 99:18,19 100:12,16 101:21 103:16 104:1 117:7,7 119:1 120:14 122:8 124:11 126:1 129:18 130:5 131:11 151:21 152:13 meaning 131:10 meaningful 86:16,18 91:5,6,6,11 118:25 125:19,23 meaningless 91:22 means 37:19 62:22 122:5 129:14 130:7 151:4 meant 67:20 111:20 measure 48:15 measured 15:19 41:4 130:5 measurement 15:16 48:1 measurements 20:13 44:5 130:20 measures 48:16 122:9 measuring 32:25 mechanism 58:6 mechanisms 96:9 media 150:20 medical 11:9 12:2 121:18 meeting 17:6 Megan 2:13 5:17 megan.kriegstein@... 2:16 member 18:19,21 51:4 77:22 members 77:5,10 87:9 95:20 memory 100:23 113:8 113:11,17 MENDOZA 3:7 mentioned 15:15 42:18 50:22 63:2 70:3 73:21 138:25 139:24 140:24 144:25 meso 125:20 Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 167 mesothelioma 17:10 23:23 24:3,9,17,22 24:25 25:12,22 26:23 27:3,7,13,19 28:2,9 28:15,20 29:1,12,18 29:25 30:5,10,19,23 76:3 86:23,25 87:11 87:18,25 88:7,12,19 89:5,15,20,23 90:3,6 90:11 91:3,10,14 94:25 95:6,11,20 96:21 97:4 119:8,20 120:7,25 121:10,17 121:19 122:19 123:11 124:2 126:14 126:21,25 127:4,6 131:23 132:4,15 133:11,15,20,25 134:12,25 135:9 136:1,9 137:1,14 138:11,16 139:7,11 139:21 140:3,14 141:2 met 154:13 method 42:15 methodologies 26:10 methodology 81:13 microscope 81:7 147:16 microscopy 81:18,19 81:21 mid 31:16 71:11 142:12 145:1 MIDDLESEX 1:2 midget 147:14 million 146:10,10,18 147:1 mills 143:22 mind 12:17,23 13:1 37:21 47:7 49:15 61:4 88:12 113:11 114:13 119:7 136:8 136:14,15,24 mine 27:2 147:6 mines 143:22 minimum 123:14 minuscule 92:10 minute 92:4 misinterpreting 107:21 missed 110:5 misused 147:7 mix 86:11 mixing 43:17 46:3 49:4 86:7 108:7 model 96:18,18 models 97:18 moment 11:24 12:18 12:24 38:16 47:7 57:6 68:23 money 9:21 10:3 monitor 147:11 154:9 155:24 monoxide 7:12 month 31:10 117:14 moral 152:7,8,9 morning 6:14 16:19 17:7 Morristown 3:9 Mort 74:2 Mortality 17:9 Mount 3:8 move 107:11 108:11 109:12 152:19 moved 109:20 moving 73:3 88:24 mud 44:17 multiple 14:4 66:8 114:10,17 MULVANEY 3:8 Mustang 97:22,23 mute 116:21 N N 2:1 4:7 5:1 naked 48:24 146:19,22 name 5:15,18 7:22 8:5 61:3 134:10 named 157:9 names 46:14 National 128:17 nationwide 30:8 124:25 native 20:25 near 146:25,25 nearly 49:25 necessarily 90:25 94:16 101:21 necessary 9:11 33:17 42:5 96:6 123:11 152:23 153:2 need 47:5 63:24,25 65:17 68:10 69:11 73:21 97:13,22 99:2 102:10 108:22 111:13 112:16 130:1 130:20 155:20 needed 145:15 negative 33:23 34:13 34:14 40:2 42:16,23 neighborhood 8:14 nephelometer 48:16 never 48:7 69:21 77:12 133:2 151:18 152:2,9 new 1:1 2:5,15 3:3,9 3:14 4:4 85:23 117:21 124:16 130:23 135:17,24 140:9 Newark 2:14,15 3:14 nice 104:20,21 122:21 151:22 Nicholson 15:17 16:2 46:7 nine 138:6 NIOSH 12:7 27:25 28:4,6,8,13 77:17 128:18 norm 46:24 normal 39:13 normally 57:24 64:15 64:17 65:13 68:4 71:8 81:17 126:19 North 2:20 4:4 78:12 Northeast 124:23 notary 157:5,13,21 158:25 noted 158:6 notes 153:8,12 notice 17:17 107:3 noticeable 66:11 noticed 63:25 113:9 number 6:2 7:11,16 8:12 11:6,19 12:8,24 21:10 28:5 29:11 44:16 48:13 58:22 79:16 87:2,3 106:23 117:9 124:17 137:16 numbers 47:6 numerical 59:5 O O 5:1 oath 114:18 Object 20:19 27:21 28:21 41:19 42:8 47:4 48:11 49:8 51:9 51:23 52:6,12,19 53:2,25 54:14 56:12 56:19 57:13 59:12 63:17 64:8,14 65:10 67:18 68:18 71:5 72:14 73:2 74:21 82:5 84:14 90:12 91:12 96:22 97:14 100:11 102:16 106:1 106:19 110:12 120:8 124:10 126:15 127:7 129:11 144:11 148:18 149:5,12,20 150:11 155:2,15 objection 24:10,18 25:25 26:6,16 27:22 28:10 29:13,19 36:4 36:5,13 37:12 40:4 41:11 43:1 46:19 47:11 48:12 49:7,18 49:23 55:8 57:4,14 58:17 65:3,20 66:13 67:11 68:2,17 69:4 70:13 71:6,16 72:6 75:18 76:23 77:7,24 79:8 81:8 83:16 84:4 87:12,19 89:24 91:21 92:22 93:8 95:1,13 95:23 97:5,24 98:3 98:16,25 99:13,14 101:14,25 102:17 104:14 106:7,14 107:19 108:9 109:16 112:25 113:14,23 114:24 115:5 116:7 119:9 120:9 121:5 122:20 125:25 126:8 130:17 131:17 132:6 134:19 135:20 136:2 137:8 139:12,23 140:15 143:10 145:9 149:11 151:2,9,20 152:4,11 155:1,14 objective 79:25 obligation 154:8 obviously 11:11 125:4 141:7 occasion 10:25 105:20 107:25 108:14,15,18 108:19 occasionally 22:7 occasions 7:2 65:16 108:25 114:11 140:13 occupants 21:6 22:9 occupation 128:22 129:13 130:3 occupational 15:8 22:24 49:14,16 50:8 121:1 128:18 occupying 22:2 occur 44:8 86:13 91:18 117:18 occurred 53:4 150:4 150:21 occurring 54:16 occurs 38:8 51:13 odds 88:13 office 13:6 14:17 17:25 18:2 19:6 20:14 22:9 62:2 101:8 offices 31:12 official 26:14,22,24 29:17,21 157:17 officially 31:21 Oh 8:25 9:23 12:16 17:21 18:22 19:8 63:14 92:17 127:24 128:11 141:24 okay 6:20 7:2,4,14,19 8:7,15,17 9:4,7,21,25 10:6,21 12:21 13:4,8 13:16,25 14:25 15:6 16:23 17:3,23 18:8 18:21 19:16 22:11 23:9,13,15 31:9 32:1 32:4,20 33:2,8 34:2,4 34:7,12,16,24 36:19 36:23 38:4,8 39:16 42:12,19 44:9,20 45:2 46:2 49:4,15 50:6,15 52:3 54:18 55:17 59:18 60:5 61:23 62:5 63:5 64:5 66:16,21 69:25 70:18 76:15 77:21 78:20 79:6 80:13 82:1,19 82:25 83:11 84:21,25 85:1,21 86:3,12 89:3 92:12,20,23 93:3,5 93:16 94:10,23 98:1 98:9 100:7 103:2,5,9 103:14 104:25 105:19,20,25 108:11 109:2,21 111:7,19,23 114:20 116:12 120:4 121:3,23 123:2,5 124:21 125:8 127:3 127:14,16,25 128:11 128:13 129:23 130:19 131:3,15 138:8,19 139:4 140:5 141:8,12,16 142:1,21 Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. White 2-6-2009 Page 168 143:6 153:15,16 154:18 156:3 old 21:3 23:10 31:12 62:10,11 115:19 130:24 146:9 147:14 oldest 23:4 once 32:8 75:16 117:13 117:14 131:14,15 ones 11:22 12:19,22 14:10 18:12 76:8 78:3 one's 86:14 operation 37:9 operations 59:6 146:12 opinion 19:19 24:2,16 24:24 27:25 29:23 30:3,9 36:19,24 40:13 41:7 42:4 49:6 51:6,20 55:19 56:4 58:15 63:20 64:7,22 65:11 68:12,25 87:7 87:8,15,24 88:20 89:5 90:13 119:24 120:5,22 121:4,8,14 121:18 131:24 132:11 137:19 138:15 139:4,9,25 140:11 opinions 84:17 85:4 91:17 98:7 138:13 opportunity 118:4 opposed 12:3 13:21 oral 17:17 22:12,13 order 36:1 41:18 88:7 120:14 organization 30:22 54:23 original 97:12 OSHA 28:25 29:6,10 29:23 38:23,24 40:18 41:2,6 42:3 67:5 68:20 89:18,22 90:5 90:10,21 91:2 142:13 145:19 148:21 149:14 154:5,7,12,22 155:10,22,23 OSHA's 29:17 outcome 157:16 outlier 46:23 overall 38:17 140:13 overexposures 54:2 56:15 57:7 oversimplifies 82:6 O'BRIEN 4:3 O'NEILL 4:3 P P 2:1,1 3:7 5:1 Pacific 2:7 7:17,21,25 8:1,8,8,15 9:18 14:6 15:14 16:14 20:3 51:4 52:4,10,25 60:6 60:14,15,21,25 61:10 61:21 62:7,17 69:8 69:14 70:20,24 71:3 71:13,15 72:3,25 73:15,19 74:11 75:10 75:15 78:7 79:23 80:7,14 82:3,13,21 82:22 83:2,12,23 84:7,10 85:3,5 98:21 98:23 99:10,17,20,24 100:15 101:6 103:15 103:18,24 106:5,13 107:16 110:8,10 111:24 115:13,23 118:4 123:19 124:8 131:25 132:9,14,20 132:22 133:2,3 135:24 Pacific's 17:13,16 74:7 74:13 packaging 4:16 61:9 62:7 page 4:8,13 14:23 84:25 98:8 103:8 105:12,18 109:4 116:11 123:1 127:14 127:15,21,21 128:6,9 131:4,5 134:13 137:24 pages 126:23 157:10 PAGE/LINE 158:8 paint 76:25 77:3 painter 76:18,18,21 painters 76:15,17 77:5 78:4 paragraph 109:24 116:11 123:3 138:19 Park 4:4 parlance 57:23 Parsons 1:17 part 11:12 13:9 23:2 44:10 58:20 59:16 76:21 77:5,10,22,23 97:19 110:5 123:20 139:20 140:2 143:13 144:24 155:21 particle 146:10 particles 48:17 146:10 146:18 147:1,5 particular 77:22 124:6 125:21 126:4 150:18 parties 157:15 partly 121:16 parts 78:12 95:3 pass 142:17 Pastor 98:22 99:11 100:4 101:11 102:14 103:14 104:25 106:17 113:5,11,17 114:10 116:6 118:4 118:10 120:24 121:9 121:16 132:12 139:6 139:10 140:2 patient 153:12 patterns 128:2 Patty 11:17,25 Paul 12:25 pay 107:1 peak 58:5,8 peer 51:12 peeve 147:6 PENALTIES 158:17 Pennsauken 4:4 Pennsylvania 3:19 people 6:1 15:19 22:1 34:5 35:12,24 36:25 39:8,12 40:14,21,24 53:1 54:6 56:25 60:1 65:21 73:6 75:3 85:19 87:8,15 89:22 90:5 92:12 93:5,11 93:16,22 94:4,5,18 96:3 99:19 112:1,10 117:13 123:6,18 124:7,23 125:2,7,9 126:6,11,12,21 129:8 129:23 130:9,13 133:3,10,14,19,24 134:11,24 135:4,11 136:8,24 143:2,4 146:11,16 147:21 150:9 155:19 people's 56:4 87:5,10 87:17 93:25 94:11 123:22 perceived 109:18 percent 20:4 33:6,10 33:12,14 71:9,19 117:25 118:1,15 percentage 43:12 117:21 percentages 71:18 118:14,19 performed 50:23 performing 37:9 period 58:1,3 61:15 71:10 112:13,18 115:8,14 123:9,11 146:17 155:4 PERJURY 158:17 permissible 38:24 40:20 54:3 56:9 57:1 57:8 58:4 permission 32:5 person 39:25 personal 20:17 33:24 41:18 105:7 143:14 personally 16:22 22:1 35:8 43:19 personnel 22:5,5 perspective 22:24 45:19 51:21 53:24 54:8 56:17 67:8 69:13 72:22 121:12 122:3 152:9 pet 147:6 phase 109:3 phased 71:21 phonetic 16:17 photograph 4:16 61:12,17,24 62:1,4,7 62:21,24 physical 22:6 45:25 physically 62:6 physician 121:6 physiology 11:9 PICILLO 3:2 PICINI 3:2 pick 13:21 picture 50:9 75:24 101:6,16,19 103:15 103:17 104:5 pictures 101:12,13 102:12,23 115:20 piece 26:20 pieces 102:19 PIH 18:17 Pittsburgh 3:19 place 12:11,13 66:9 127:24 157:9 placed 70:7 placement 115:22 places 29:11 Placitella 2:3,4 4:9,10 5:2,14,25 6:13 9:4,8 20:20 24:14,23 26:3 26:9,21 27:23 28:12 28:24 29:16,22 36:8 37:16 40:8 41:14,22 42:12 43:4 46:25 47:8 48:22 49:11 50:6,10,15,19 51:14 52:1,9,15,22 53:6 54:5,18 55:13 56:16 56:22 57:11,17 58:19 59:18 61:23 63:19 65:7,11,24 66:14 67:14,21 68:12,24 69:7 70:18 71:12 72:2,11,18 73:12 75:1 76:4 77:4,9 78:5 79:13 81:9,11 82:11 83:18 84:6,16 87:23 88:23,25 90:4 90:14 91:16 92:11 93:1,15 95:8,16 96:5 97:1,11,21 98:1,6,20 99:3,15 101:5,17 102:9,21 103:7 104:17 106:4,11,16 107:11 108:10 109:21 110:15 113:3 113:16 114:8 115:2 115:10 116:10 119:21 120:12 121:7 122:23 124:14 126:6 126:12,17 127:9 129:15 130:19 131:20 132:11 134:22 135:23 136:6 139:15 140:23 143:16 144:17 145:11 148:25 149:9 149:15,23 150:19 151:5,12,23 152:8,18 153:7,11,19 154:16 154:18,21 155:9 156:3 157:13 plaintiff 6:22 9:14 plaintiffs 1:3 2:2 17:20 Plaintiff's 17:13 planet 89:9 plans 22:15 plant 22:6 80:8,12 plants 80:10 plasterers 77:13 127:6 127:13 Stratos Legal Services, LP 1-800-971-1127 Kenneth L. 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