Document 3QYjG150rMdOww8OBgL4JBz1D

10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES --------------------- DENNIS H. WOODARD and MYRA J. Case No. BC 387 774 3 WOODARD, 4 Plaintiffs V. 5 ALFA LAVAL INC.,, et al., 6 7 Defendants. -----------------------------y 8 Volume 1 October 30, 2008 9 Somerset, New Jersey 10 Oral deposition of CARLO F. MARTINO, taken on behalf of the Plaintiffs, at the Courtyard Marriott, 250 Davidson Avenue, Somerset, New Jersey, commencing at 9:30 a.ra., October 30, 2008, before Anthony Armstrong, a Certified Shorthand Reporter of the States of New Jersey and California 16 1? IB 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard WITNESS CARLO MARTINO INDEX EXAMINATION BY Mr. Galerston 5 6 EXHIBIT NO. PLAINTIFFS EXHIBITS DESCRIPTION 1 Sales scroll for Westinghouse sales 8 2 Sales scroll for all products sold 3 Sales scroll for all products sold 9 4 Sales scroll for plastics 5 Sales scroll for Square D 10 6 Sales scroll for Square D 7 Sales to Allen-Bradley 11 8 Sales to Allen-Bradley 9 10/31/66 letter 10 10/31/66 letter 11 2/11/71 letter 12 12/10/71 letter 13 1/12/73 study 14 3/14/73 letter 15 10/24/72 committee meeting 16 5/3/73 letter 17 Product standards 16 18 1/24/74 memo 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PAGES 4 PAGES 6 14 19 20 22 23 34 34 40 43 49 50 52 57 66 69 78 82 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 APPEARANCES 2 STANLEY MANDEL IOLA 3100 Monticello Avenue, Suite 750 3 Dallas, Texas 75205 BY: WILLIAM A. GALERSTON, ESQ., 4 Attorneys for Plaintiffs 5 MAYER BROWN 71 South Wacker Drive 6 Chicago, Illinois 60606 BY: MICHAEL A. OLSEN, ESQ., Attorneys for the witness and Union-Carbide 8 McKENNA LONG ALDRIDGE 444 South Flower Street, Suite 800 9 Los Angeles, California 90071 BY: MATT ASHBY, ESQ., 10 Attorneys for Union-Carbide 11 HOWARD ROME MARTIN RIDLEY 1775 Woodside Road, Suite 200 12 Redwood City, California 94061 BY: CHRISTINA HELWIG, ESQ., 13 Attorneys for Eaton Electrical and IMO Industries 14 SELMAN BREITMAN 11766 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 600 15 Los Angeles, California 90025 BY: PATRICK J. CLIFFORD, ESQ., 16 Attorneys for Sepco Corporation 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 CARLO MARTINO, a witness, having first been 2 duly sworn, testified as follows: 3 DIRECT EXAMINATION 4 BY MR. GALERSTON: 5 Q. Good morning, Mr. Martino. My name 6 is Bill Galerston. We've met before? 7 A. Yes. 8 MR. GALERSTON: Before we get 9 started, I want to go ahead and get a 10 housekeeping matter on the record. 11 It has been previously agreed, and we 12 have correspondence reflecting agreement 13 between counsel for the Woodards and 14 Union-Carbide, that we can use, without 15 objection, transcripts previously given by 16 yourself from the Eubanks and the Whitmire 17 cases. 13 Is that correct, Mr. Olsen? 19 MR. OLSEN: Yeah. We are not waiving 20 any substantive objections as to the 21 admissibility of anything in there. But the 22 technical objections about the transcript 23 itself, the stipulation, we agree. 24 MR. GALERSTON: That's my 25 understanding, as well. 24 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 In addition, we have reached an 2 agreement that the plaintiffs in this case 3 can use part of the transcript given by 4 Mr. Martino in the In Re: Hawaii State 5 Asbestos Cases, Civil No. 08-1-ACN-l, in the 6 Circuit Court for the First Circuit, State 7 of Hawaii. 8 If I understand it, our agreement is 9 that plaintiffs can use that transcript up 10 to and including Line 22 of Page 66, subject 11 to an agreement that we will not use the 12 portion where plaintiff's counsel attempts 13 to impeach Mr. Martino on a technical issue. 14 MR. OLSEN: Correct, on the prior 15 deposition Mr. Martino had given. Again, 16 it's the same stipulation with respect to 17 this case only and the technical objections 18 related to the use of a transcript and not 19 substantive admissibility objections. 20 MR. GALERSTON: That's understood. 31 No objection. 32 Union-Carbide agrees not to raise 23 unavailability of witness, prior testimony, 24 those types -- 25 MR. OLSEN: Correct. 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 and ask you if you can identify this document, 2 sir? MR. OLSEN: (Perusing.) 4 I'm going to make one objection, that 5 the questioning about the sales scrolls is 6 outside the scope of the notice. I'm going to let you ask questions so 8 you understand how they work. But I don't 9 want to get into a bunch of questions about 10 the substance of a bunch of sales scrolls 11 because I don't think they are relevant to 12 this case. 13 A. (Perusing.) 14 BY MR. GALERSTON: 15 Q. Have you had an opportunity to review 16 Exhibit No . 17 17 A. Yes. 13 Q- Are you familiar with this document? 19 A. I*m familiar with this type of 20 document, yes. 21 Q- What is Exhibit No. 1? 22 A. It's a sales scroll showing the 23 products sold to Westinghouse in 1966, '67, '69, 24 *70, '71, *72, '73, and *74. 25 Q- Okay. Now, are these year .sales -- 57 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 MR. GALERSTON: -- as you referred to 2 technical objections. 3 MR. OLSEN: Correct. 4 BY MR. GALERSTON: 5 Q. In light of that, Mr. Martino, I 6 believe I will be able to shorten our deposition 7 considerably today. 8 A. Okay. 9 Q. You and I have previously discussed 10 your experience with Bakelite product at 11 Union-Carbide? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. You understandthat's what we're 14 going to talk about again today? 15 A. Yes. 16 (Whereupon, Exhibit 1 was marked 17 for identification.) 18 19 BY MR. GALERSTON: 20 Q. Since we aregoing to rely upon your 31 previous testimony, I am going to go ahead and 32 jump into the specific questions that I have 23 regarding some documents that are new to me. 24 I'm going to hand you what I'm marking 25 as Martino Exhibit No. 1, which is a sales scroll. 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 the data for 1969, does December 31st, 1966, 2 which is Page 1 of Exhibit No. 1, also 3 UCASB 00033579, does that indicate that 1966 4 sales by Union-Carbide to Westinghouse? 5 A. Yes. 6 MR. OLSEN: Just to be clear, this 7 document is redacted, so those aren't all 8 the sales of any products. 9 A. These were sales of phenolic molding 10 materials. 11 BY MR. GALERSTON: 12 Q. Okay. Do you know if this was 18 limited to the asbestos-containing phenolic 14 molding material, or just all phenolics? 15 A. They are all phenolic. 16 MR. OLSEN: His question is, do you 17 know if this is just the -- if you know 13 whether this is just the asbestos-containing 19 or not, or if you don't know -- 20 A. I see one that's wood flour filled. 21 So it is not just asbestos. 22 BY MR. GALERSTON: 23 Q. Just because a phenolic haswood 24 flour in it does not mean it cannot also contain 25 asbestos, does it? 68 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 A. That's true. But some of our 2 products did not contain asbestos. 3 Q. Sure. So you're saying as you're 4 looking here, you're seeing at least one product 5 that you recognize as being a wood flour product 6 and so you believe that this would be all 7 phenolics that was sold to Westinghouse as 8 opposed to just asbestos phenolics? 9 A. Yes -- 10 MR. OLSEN: If you know, Carl. 11 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do know. 12 MR. OLSEN: So you know that these 13 are all the phenolic molding compounds sold 14 to Westinghouse for this timeframe, you know 15 that? 16 THE WITNESS: Well, I'm assuming that 17 the sales scrolls are correct. Based on 18 this document, this is what we sold to 19 Westinghouse. 20 BY MR. GALERSTON: 31 Q. Okay. And let's look at that first 32 page of Exhibit No. 1. And we see at the top it 23 says D 136350 thermosetting corap. 24 That's not Westinghouse, correct? 25 That would be a different company? 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 A. Where are you looking? 2 Q. At the very top of the document. 3 A. That is not a company. That, I 4 think, is just a description, thermosetting 5 compositions. 6 Q- Okay. Would you -- does it appear to 7 you that this would be related to a different 8 customer or client of Union-Carbide as opposed to 9 Westinghouse, which we see further down in the 10 document? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Okay. Let's go ahead and look down 13 at the middle of the document where we see 14 reference to Westinghouse. It says 350 94725 15 Westinghouse BMMA 5138. 16 Do you see that, sir? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Westinghouse we recognize as being 19 Union-Carbide's customer, correct? 20 A. Yes. 31 Q- BMMA 5138 is a Union-Carbide phenolic 32 product. correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. What does the -- if you know, does 3 5 the 350 and the 94725 mean? 9 10 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 A. The 250. 2 Q. The 350. 3 A. 350. That Idon't know. 4 Q. Do you know whatthat next column -- 5 6 Q. Okay. As we go across this line, it 7 says BMMA 5138. Then we see the number 20. 8 A. It looks like 2D. 9 Q. Do you know what that refers to? 10 A. Not the 2D, no. 11 Q. Then we go further across to the far 12 right of this document and we see what appears to 13 be under the pounds column as 230, then 230 14 again. Do you see that, sir? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Does that indicate to you that there 17 were two purchases of 230 pounds each time of 13 BMMA 5138? 10 A. No. It would be another line for the 20 second 230. I don't know why there are two 230s 31 there. 22 Q. Let's go ahead and look at the second 23 page of this exhibit. 24 Again, looking at this at the very top 25 of the document, it appears that we're now looking 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 at -- on Page 1, we are talking about the 350 2 thermoset. compound. 3 The second page it's 361 therraoset 4 compound. So this is sales of a different type of 5 compound; is that correct, or is this difference 6 just based upon the date since one is 66 page and 7 the next one is 67, if you know? 8 A. I don't know why those numbers are 9 different. 10 Q- Okay. Three-quarters of the way down 11 the page on the second page, we see again the 12 name Westinghouse. We see several compounds that 13 are listed there. You see that, sir? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. These are again Union-Carbide sales 16 of these compounds to Westinghouse for 1967. 17 Is that what this reflects? 13 A. Yes. 19 Q. On this page we see -- in the middle 20 two columns we see dollar sales amounts; is that 31 correct? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. The first column after the thermoset 24 compound is the amount of dollars, and then I 35 guess there is pounds followed by that. 11 12 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. So in 1967, if I read this correctly. 3 and correct me where I'm wrong, Union-Carbide 4 sold to Westinghouse BMG 0425 -- that should be 5 that first -- 1,750 pounds of product at $3.94 a 6 pound? 7 A. No. That's $394. 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. That would be the pounds times the 10 price. 11 Q. Okay. So then we take it across and 12 it says year to date. You see that? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. In that same line it says $9,913? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And then next to that it was 17 44,050 pounds? IS A. Yes. 19 Q. So if I understand it correctly, what 20 it appears is that in December, Westinghouse 21 would have bought 394 -- excuse me -- 22 1,750 pounds for $394, which brought their 23 year-to-date total purchases of that one specific 24 compound to 44,050 pounds, for a price of $9,913? 25 A. Yes. 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 Q- And that would be the basic analysis 2 for each of the compounds that are listed here. 3 correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q- The middle columns are showing us 6 what would be that month. 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And then the year to date is on the 9 far right? 10 A. Is the year to date -- year to date. 11 yes. 12 Q. And this is a type of document that 13 you would have had access to and would have 14 relied at the time you were working in the 15 Bakelite division? 16 A. I could request it, yes. 17 Q- Now, I want to go ahead and mark IS Exhibit No. 2, which is slightly different. But 19 again, this is more Westinghouse documents. I 20 ask you to take a look at that. If you could 21 identify that for the record. 22 A. (Perusing.) 23 (Whereupon, Exhibit 2 was marked 24 for identification.) 25 +++++++++++++ 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 MR. GALERSTON: For the record, let 2 me indicate that Exhibit No. 2 is UCASB 3 02374063 through UCASB 02539076. 4 A. (Perusing.) 5 BY MR. GALERSTON: 6 Q. What do we have here in Exhibit 7 No. 2? 8 A. This looks like the scrolls for all 9 products sold, chemicals as well as plastics. 10 Q. Okay. Exhibit No. 2, the first thing 11 that I can make out is Westinghouse on Page 1 of 12 Exhibit No. 2. 13 Do you see that, sir? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Is all of Exhibit No. 2related to 16 Westinghouse, to the best of your knowledge? 17 A. Third page, I'm not sure that that is 13 Westinghouse. It's something Electric 19 Corporation. 20 Q. It looks like tome it'sWSTGHS, like 21 an abbreviation for Westinghouse. If you look at 22 the last page, and certainly take your time if 23 you want to look at everything, but I see the 24 abbreviation throughout. Toward the end we see 25 Westinghouse spelled out in full. 13 15 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 If there is any information that you 2 have that would indicate that this entire document 3 would not be related to Westinghouse, let me know. 4 MR. OLSEN: You don't need to look at 5 every page. It says Westinghouse on the top 6 or the same abbreviation -- 7 THE WITNESS: Yes. 8 MR. OLSEN: If it doesn't, then we 9 will take issue with it if it is ever 10 appropriate. 11 THE WITNESS: Yes, that's all right. 12 MR. OLSEN: Okay. 13 BY MR. GALERSTON: 14 Q. So based upon your cursory review, 15 you would agree that this appears to be 16 related -- this document appears to be related to 17 Westinghouse? 13 A. Yes. 10 Q. And it appears toreflect sales of 20 various products to various Westinghouse 21 facilities? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Okay. Can you tell bylooking -- the 24 last page, that's pretty clear that there's a 25 date on it, which appears to be December of 1974. 14 16 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 Q. Okay. This document starts with the 2 summary for the year December 1966. 3 Do you know whether General Electric 4 was a customer of Union-Carbide's thermosetting 5 division prior to the 1966? 6 A. I don't know. Q. The interpretation of the information 8 contained here in Exhibit No. 4, is there 9 anything different from it than what we discussed 10 in Exhibit No. 1? 11 A. It looks similar. 12 Q. And looking at the first page of 13 Exhibit No. 4, can you identify whether or not 14 any of those Union-Carbide thermosetting products 15 that were purchased by General Electric would 16 have been asbestos-containing? 17 A. Some were, and there is some that I 18 don't think contained asbestos. 19 Q. Okay. And looking at the list, which 20 ones do you believe would not have been 21 asbestos-containing? 22 A. 7,002. 5020 did not contain asbestos 23 at some time. It did contain some asbestos at 24 other times. I would have to look at the 25 formulation sheets to determine, you know, if, in 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 '66, it had asbestos in it. 2 Q- 5020, was that the general-purpose 3 Bakelite? 4 A. 5000 was the general-purpose 5 Bakelite. 15020, I think, was similar to it. 6 MR. GALERSTON: For the record, let 7 me identify Exhibit No. 4 as being Pages 8 UCASB 00033566 through UCASB 00014022. 9 (Whereupon, Exhibit 5 was marked 10 for identification.) 11 ................................. 12 BY MR. GALERSTON 13 Q- I'ra going to hand you what I will 14 mark as Exhibit No. 5, UCASB 02391285 through 15 UCASB 02538215. If you could identify that for 16 us. 17 MR. OLSEN: (Perusing.) IS A. (Perusing.) 19 Okay. 20 BY MR. GALERSTON 21 Q- What is Exhibit No. 5, sir? 22 A. These are sales to Square D. 23 Q. Okay. When you say sales, are these 24 all sales, >or is this just the thermosetting 2 5 products? 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 Sir, I tell you what. To make that 2 easier, let me hand you Exhibit 6, as well. 3 (Whereupon, Exhibit 6 was marked 4 for identification.) 5 6 BY MR. GALERSTON: 7 Q. Looking at that in conjunction with 8 No. 5, it will be easier. 9 MR. GALERSTON: For the record. 10 Exhibit No. 6 is UCASB 00033576 through 11 UCASB 00014039. 12 A. Okay. 13 BY MR. GALERSTON: 14 Q. All right. So does Exhibit No. 5 -- 15 could you identify that for the record? 16 A. These are -- 17 MR. OLSEN: 6. 13 BY MR. GALERSTON: 17 Q. First 5. 20 A. 5 are sales toSquare D. 21 Q. Does that appear to be of all 22 products? 23 A. Yes. This would be chemicals and 24 plastics. 25 Q. What is Exhibit No. 6? 21 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 A. Are the sales of the thermosetting 2 compounds. 3 Q. Okay. Exhibit No. 5 appears to be 4 run from December 1967 until December 1974, 5 similar to the other general sales -- or scrolls 6 that we looked at, correct? 7 A. This is '67 to '74. 8 Q. Right. 9 A. This is '66 to '74. 10 Q- Okay. And this is referring to 11 Exhibit No. 6, correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q- Exhibit No. 6 is similar to the other 14 sales scrolls we saw with regards to 15 thermosetting compounds, correct? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q- Looking at Page No. 1 of Exhibit 13 No. 6, we see the name Square D Company, and then 19 we see next to that BMMA 5715; is that correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q- And 5715 was an asbestos-containing. 22 heat-resistant thermosetting compound, correct? 23 A. I'm not sure. I'd have to look at 24 the formulation on that. 25 Q- Okay. Then we see over to the far 22 23 24 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 Q. What about 6935. Do you recall? 2 A. I don't recall. We'd have to look at 3 the records . But our asbestos removal program 4 was pretty well advanced. We started in '70. By 5 the end of '73, we had removed quite a bit of the 6 asbestos. 7 Q. I think your testimony is that by 8 *74, that's when you got out and the big press 9 release came out that you were out of -- 10 A. Right. 11 Q. -- use of asbestos, correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. You, being Union-Carbide? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Let's look at the last page, 4039. 16 December 1974. This is the year that 17 Union-Carbide announced that it was completely IS out of use of asbestos and its thermosetting 19 compounds? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q- That year. Square D purchased 22 2,873,960 pounds at a price of $1,008,074, 23 correct? 24 A. Yes. 2 5 Q- And by the end of 1974, none of these 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 products would have had any asbestos, correct? 2 A. Yes. Well, 5303 we had reduced that 3 to 15 percent. I left the business in *73. So I 4 don't know whether we ever got down to zero in 5 5303. That could be the 15 percent. The others, 6 which should have gotten down to zero. 7 Q. Okay. Do you know if Square D 8 continued to be a customer of Union-Carbide's 9 thermosetting division following 1974? 10 A. I don't know if they bought any 11 chemicals or resins. 12 (Whereupon, Exhibit 7 was marked 13 for identification.) 14 15 MR. OLSEN: 8. 16 (Whereupon, Exhibit 8 was marked 17 for identification.) 18 19 BY MR. GALERSTON: 20 Q. I'ra going to hand you what I have 21 marked as 7 and 8 to your deposition. I ask you 22 to review those and see if you can identify them 23 for the record. 24 MR. OLSEN: I'm going to object. The 25 sales scrolls questions are all outside the 33 34 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 scope of the notice. He has gone through 2 the sales scrolls, he has explained how they 3 work. 4 I'm going to object to going through 5 additional sales scrolls that have nothing 6 to do with this case and ask questions about 7 them. 8 MR. GALERSTON: Allen-Bradley and 9 Square D are both defendants in this case. 10 Union-Carbide is being sued for its 11 supplying of materials to those two 12 defendants, as well as other defendants, 13 which would have been the source of the 14 exposure. I don't know how it's not 15 relevant or beyond the scope. 16 MR. OLSEN: Well, then, the notice 17 specified sales of products to specific 13 companies and to specific locations. These 17 scrolls don't have anything to do with any 20 of the companies or locations that were 21 specified in the notice, so that's why it's 22 outside the scope of the notice. 23 Now, he has explained exactly how 24 these documents worked. The documents are 25 what they are. Having him read totals into 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 the record doesn't serve any purpose. 2 MR. ASHBY: This is Matt Ashby. Let 3 me correct one thing that Mr. Galerston 4 said: I don't believe Allen-Bradley is a 5 defendant in this action. 6 MR. GALERSTON: I'll stand corrected 7 if that's the case. 8 MS. HELWIG: This is Christina 9 Helwig. You guys are extremely hard to hear 10 on the phone. If everybody can check their 11 mute button. 12 MR. OLSEN: He went through the 13 Square D sales scrolls. Allen-Bradley 14 doesn't have anything to do with this case 15 and serves no purpose. It isn't relevant to 16 anything at issue here. 17 MR. GALERSTON: Let me just get him 13 to identify it. 15 BY MR. GALERSTON: 20 Q. Sir, I have handed you what I have 21 marked as Exhibit 7 and 8. Can you identify 22 those documents for the record, please, sir. 23 A. They look like sales to Allen-Bradley 24 from 1964 to 1974. 25 Q. That would be Exhibit No. 7, correct? 35 36 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 A. Right. And the other, Exhibit 8, 2 1967 to 1973. 3 Q. That*s Exhibit 8, sir? 4 A. Yes. And there are more than just 5 molding compounds on both of them. 6 Q. These documents are substantially 7 similar to the ones that we just reviewed. 8 Exhibits 5 and 6, sir? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. We will move on. 11 MR. GALERSTON: Let's take a quick 12 break. 13 (There was a recess.) 14 15 BY MR. GALERSTON: 16 Q. Sir, are you ready tocontinue, sir? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. As youknow, we haveagreed to use 19 previous transcripts. So I'm going to try to 20 fill in some of the blanks in some of the 31 information I have. I will ask you about some 32 additional documents that we recently have become 23 aware of. I will jump around. If it becomes 24 confusing to you, let me know. 25 A. Okay. 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 Q. I might be making assumptions and 2 jumping in places where you are not there yet. 3 According to my understanding of your 4 previous testimony, I believe it was in 1972 or 5 1973, correct me as to which date it was, that you 6 were involved in testing the release of asbestos material from an asbestos phenolic when it was 8 being cut. drilled or sanded; is that correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. What year was that? 11 A. It was *72, '73 timeframe. 12 Q. And prior to that time, you are not 13 aware of any efforts Union-Carbide had ever made 14 to determine whether or not asbestos fibers would 15 be released from the phenolic asbestos-containing 16 material when it was being cut, drilled or 17 abraded, correct? 18 A. I'm not aware of any, no. 19 Q. And if -- correct me if I'm wrong, is 20 that up until that point in time that you 21 conducted your investigation, Union-Carbide was 22 of the position that its phenolic resin materials 23 did not have to have a warning label or have to 24 disclose that there was asbestos in its materials 25 because it was a bounded or bound constituent. 37 38 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 correct? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. You, as in Union-Carbide, were aware 4 that the end-users of your asbestos-containing 5 phenolic materials might have to cut, abrade, or 6 otherwise grind those phenolics once they were in 7 the field, correct? MR. OLSEN: End-users, are you 9 talking about the molders who are using 10 Carbide's product or people who are using 11 the molded product? 12 MR. GALERSTON: People who are using 13 the molded product. 14 A. The people who used the molded -- the 15 molders -- 16 BY MR. GALERSTON: 17 Q- Not the molders . Beyond them. 13 A. Beyond them, no . The molded part 19 should not have to be drilled, cut or polished 20 because it's made to specifications. I'm not 21 aware of any exception to that. 22 Q. Okay. We certainly have seen some 23 testimony from electricians who said that they 24 had to cut, grind, drill or file some 25 asbestos-containing phenolic parts, correct? 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And I'm going to ask you to take a 3 look at what I'ra going to mark as Exhibit 9 to 4 your deposition. 5 (Whereupon, Exhibit 9 was marked 6 for identification.) 7 8 MS. HELWIG: This is Christina 9 Helwig. 10 Counsel, while he is looking at that, 11 can we have a stipulation that an objection 12 by one is an objection by all? 12 MR. GALERSTON: You may. 14 MS. HELWIG: Thank you. Same with 15 motions to strike? 16 MR. GALERSTON: You may. 17 BY MR. GALERSTON: 13 Q. I'm handing you what has been marked 10 as Exhibit 9, which is a letter. Bates No. UCASB 20 01876355, with a second page, 356. 31 If you could look at that and let me 22 know when you have finished so we can discuss it. 23 A. (Perusing.) 24 Okay. 25 Q. Okay, sir. Exhibit No. 9 is an 39 40 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 October 31st, 1966 letter from American Meter 2 Company to Dr. Lewinsohn at Union-Carbide, 3 correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q- Have you had an opportunity to review 6 Exhibit 9 prior to today? 7 A. Prior to today, no. 8 Q. Okay. Did you understand American 9 Meter Company to be a customer of Union-Carbide's 10 asbestos-containing phenolic resin? 11 A. I was not aware that they were a 12 customer. 13 Q- Okay. The letter is a, correct me if 14 I'm wrong. request for information from 15 Union-Carbide with regards to the potential for 16 releasing asbestos from lapping of valves. 17 Do you see that, sir? IS A. Yes. 19 Q. Do you know what lapping of valves 20 would mean 31 A. No. 32 Q. I'm looking specifically at the 23 second sentence of the second paragraph. It 24 says, this maintenance sometimes involves 3 5 relapping of the valves that were made from your 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 BMG 5418 material. 2 You don't know what relapping 3 involves, do you? 4 A. No. 5 Q. The writer, which is a division -- 6 Ronald H. Baraer, the division safety and environmental coordinator, says that since this 8 material contained asbestos, under the OSHA 9 Hazard Communication Standard, we feel it is our 10 responsibility to supply whatever information 11 that we can concerning the health hazards that 12 may be associated with suchmaterial. 13 In 1966, what was your responsibility 14 with regards to the Bakelite division? 15 A. I wasmanager of the phenolic molding 16 material, the RD manager of the phenolic molding 17 material and laminating resins group. 18 Q. Okay. So it would not ever come -- a 19 request from a customer with regards to a product 20 would not necessarily come to your attention in 21 that position? 22 A. Not if it involved the safety 23 information. 24 Q. Okay. I assume that you were not 25 involved in preparing the response to this 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 letter? 2 A. I don't recall having done that, no. 3 Q. Is it safe to assume that you don't 4 know whether or not relapping of a valve that was 5 made from BMG 5418 would release asbestos? 6 MR. OLSEN: Objection, calls for 7 speculation. 8 A. I don't know what relapping involves. 9 so I wouldn't know. 10 MR. GALERSTON: I'll hand you what 11 has been marked as Exhibit 10 to your 12 deposition. 13 (Whereupon, Exhibit 10 was marked 14 for .identification.) 15 16 BY MR. GALERSTON: ................................ 17 Q- I ask you to review that, please. 13 A. (Perusing.) 15 This date is -- what is the date on 20 this? 31 Q- January 21st, 1967, I believe. 22 A. 67? 23 Q. Yes, sir. 24 A. Are you sure that's '67 and not '87? 35 Q- Well, I'll tell you what. Why don't 41 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 you go ahead and review the document, and I'll 2 ask you some questions about it. 3 A. Okay. (Perusing.) 4 Okay. 5 Q. Exhibit No. 9 is a letter from 6 American Meter Company's Ronald H. Baraer to Dr. Lewinsohn, dated October 31st, 1966, 8 correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Exhibit No. 10 is aletter from R.C. 11 Wise, at Union-Carbide, the manager of product 12 safety and liability, to the same Mr. Ronald H. 13 Bamer at American Meter Company, correct? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. The first sentence of theletter, 16 which is Exhibit 10, states, regarding your 17 inquiry on Bakelite phenolic moldingmaterial BMG 18 5418. You see that, sir? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Would you agree with me that this 21 letter appears to be a response to Exhibit No. 9? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And, therefore, would you agree that 24 it was more likely than not that that would be 25 January 21st, 1967, as opposed to 1987? 42 43 44 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 Q. Do you remember -- 2 A. It was an asbestos-containing 3 material. But I don't remember the product. 4 Q. Do you remember the asbestos content, 5 the percentage? 6 A. I think it was about 30 percent. 7 Q. If I understand you, in correlation 8 to the bag dump study, your finding was that at 9 30 percent or below, the OSHA values were not 10 exceeded, but above the content -- the asbestos 11 content above 30 percent is where you had the 12 exposures that were above OSHA? 13 A. No. It was 15 percent. 14 Q. 15 percent. 15 (Whereupon, Exhibit 16 was marked 16 for identification.) 17 18 BY MR. GALERSTON: 19 Q. I'ra going to hand you what I have 20 marked as Martino Exhibit 16. 31 MR. GALERSTON: For the record. 32 Exhibit No. 16 is UCASB 01874983 through 23 1874990. 24 A. Yes. 25 BY MR. GALERSTON: 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 Q. Are you familiar with Exhibit 16? 2 A. I think I did see it before. 3 Q. Exhibit -- 4 A. In depositions. 5 Q. Okay. Exhibit 16 is a May 3rd, 6 1973 letter from J.F. Kantz, K-A-N-T-Z, to 7 Messrs. Bell, Eng and Ream regarding Asbestos 8 Caution Statement, correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Do you know Mr. Kantz? 11 A. No. 12 Q. It appears from review of this 13 document that this is in response to the 14 March 14th, 1973 letter regarding product 15 labeling , does it not? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q- And if I understand it correctly, as IS a result of the findings that Mr. Neal and you 19 and Mr. Ealer had come up with, indicated that a 20 label needs to be put on the Union-Carbide 31 product that contained asbestos? 32 A. Yes. 23 Q. The second page of this exhibit is 24 a -- is the cautionary statement that was put on 2 5 the bags and the gaylords? 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 MR. OLSEN: Objection, calls for 2 speculation. 3 A. I don't know. 4 BY MR. GALERSTON: 5 Q. Okay. In looking at Exhibit 16, I 6 want to ask you about a handwritten note on the 7 front of this document. Do you see in the lower 8 left? 9 A. Right. 10 Q. Right there itsays JFK: BE? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. It says 45 million pounds total. 13 30 million of this contain asbestos. Square D 14 included. 15 Do you have any understanding of what 16 is meant by that statement? 17 MR. OLSEN: Objection, calls for 13 speculation. No foundation. 10 A. If he'sreferring to the amount of 20 product that we made containing asbestos, it is 31 an incorrect number. 22 At its peak, we were making 19 million 23 something. Where he comes up with 30 million, I 24 have no idea. And there are documents that show 25 how we arrived at the 19, 20 million we were 69 71 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 making. I can't explain how he came up with these 2 figures. 3 BY MR. GALERSTON: 4 Q. You don't know what it means when it 5 says Square D included, do you? 6 MR. OLSEN: Same objections. 7 A. No, I don't. 8 BY MR. GALERSTON: 9 Q. I believe we discussed this before, 10 but I just want to confirm. 11 The general-purpose Bakelite, what 12 color was it? 13 A. Black and brown. 14 Q. What was the naturalcolor? 15 A. The natural color would be sort of a 16 mustard color. 17 Q. The mustard color, was that the 13 general-purpose formulation? 19 A. No. No. We always -- we added color 20 to -- black and brown color to all our products 21 except an electrical grade, which was made 22 natural. That was a mustard color. 23 Q. Do you know anyone else who sold a 24 mustard-colored electrical-grade phenolic in the 25 60s? 70 72 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 MR. OLSEN: Objection, calls for 2 speculation. No foundation. 3 A. No, I don't. 4 BY MR. GALERSTON: 5 Q. Are you aware of anyone at any other 6 time selling a mustard-colored, electrical-grade 7 phenolic compound? 8 MR. OLSEN: Same objection. 9 A. I have seen listings of competitors' 10 products where they said they were selling a 11 natural product. I never saw it, but I would 12 interpret that to mean no coloring. 13 BY MR. GALERSTON: 14 Q. Okay, sir. What have you done to 15 prepare for today's deposition, if anything? 16 A. I read -- well, I didn't read it. I 17 had four volumes sent to me on the case, and I 18 read the sections that referred to Bakelite. 19 Q. Okay. Anything else? 20 A. I reviewed the Eubanks* testimony. 31 Q. Your testimony or Mr. Eubanks' 32 testimony? 23 A. Mine. 24 Q. Anything else? 2 5 A. I should have said deposition. 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 And some of the attachments. 2 Q. Okay. Anything else? 3 A. That was it. 4 MR. OLSEN: And you talked to me 5 yesterday for about 15 minutes. 6 THE WITNESS: What's that? 7 MR. OLSEN: And you talked to me 8 yesterday for about 15 minutes. 9 MR. GALERSTON: That's 10 attorney/client privilege. 11 THE WITNESS: He took it easy on me. 12 BY MR. GALERSTON: 13 Q. What opinions, if anything, did you 14 come to from reviewing Mr. Woodard's testimony? 15 A. Very similar to the Eubanks case. 16 OSHA claims that they had to drill or cut molded 17 parts. The use of some flat panels as insulation 18 in the boxes which, to me, were laminates similar 19 to what I concluded in the Eubanks case. And 20 that was it. 31 Q. Did you conclude that Mr.Woodard's 32 testimony with regards to cutting and drilling 23 molded parts was not credible? 24 MR. OLSEN: Objection. Assumes facts 25 that are not in evidence. There is no 73 74 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 evidence that the pieces he was talking 2 about were molded or how they were made. 3 You can answer. 4 A. I wouldn't say not credible. My 5 conclusion is the same as for Eubanks, that where 6 he said he was drilling, he was probably drilling 7 a laminate where he had to attach the part. 8 The part where he said he was 9 drilling, the molded part, that I did not agree 10 with. I think you recall in the Eubanks 11 testimony, one of your witnesses did say that they 12 were not permitted to modify the molded pieces 13 without going through a procedure, which makes 14 sense to me. 15 MR. GALERSTON: Object to the 16 nonresponsive portion of the answer. 17 THE WITNESS: What's that? 13 MR. GALERSTON: Just for the record. 19 BY MR. GALERSTON: 20 Q. Do you know what the difference 21 between a -- filing an arc chute or cleaning an 22 arc chute would be to relapping a plastic valve? 23 A. No. 24 MS. HELWIG: Objection. Overbroad. 25 Calls for speculation. 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 BY MR. GALERSTON: 2 Q. Since the Eubanks* deposition, have 3 you made any further inquiries to determine the 4 appropriateness for filing and cleaning of arc 5 chutes? 6 A. No. Q. Have you made any further 8 investigation to determine whetherelectricians 9 in the United States Navy would be drilling, 10 filing, sanding molded parts? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Have you made any effort to 13 investigate whether the insulating panel, as you 14 referred to, was more likely thannot laminate? 15 A. No. 16 MR. OLSEN: When you say investigate, 17 you mean other than what he told you based 18 on his experience? 19 MR. GALERSTON: Correct. Any 20 additional effort or work. 21 BY MR. GALERSTON: 22 Q. Have you reviewed the testimony of 23 any representatives of any of the electric 24 equipment manufacturers such as Square D, 25 Allen-Bradley or Cutler-Hammer to determine what 75 76 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 their position was as to whether or not it's 2 appropriate to cut, drill or abrade molded parts? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Have you reviewed any of their 5 corporate representative testimony for any 6 purposes? 7 A. If I saw anything at all, it would be 8 in the Eubanks case. And I don't recall whether 9 I did. There was reference to Square D, but I 10 don't recall exactly what it was. 11 Q. Ebony board. Are you familiar with 12 ebony board? 13 A. Ebony board? 14 Q. Correct. 15 A. No. 16 MR. GALERSTON: I think that that's 17 going to be it. I'm going to have to go 18 through my documents. It's going to take me 19 a few minutes and whatnot to see if I have 20 any further questions. 31 Let's go ahead and see if anybody has 32 anything. I can take a break after we are 23 all done. 24 Anybody on the phone, does anybody 25 have questions for this witness? 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 Hearing none, we are going to go off 2 the record while I review ray materials. 3 (There was a recess.) 4 5 BY MR. GALERSTON: 6 Q. Sir, I'm going to hand you what I'm 7 marking as Exhibit No.17. 8 (Whereupon, Exhibit 17 was marked 9 for identification.) 10 11 Q. Which are four product standards put 12 out by Union-Carbide Plastics Company for BMG 13 5051, BMGA 5398, BMGD 5105 and BMG 2933, correct, 14 sir? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Are you generally familiar with these 17 products? 18 A. No. I would have to look at the 19 formulation sheets. They are not the popular -- 20 well, let me back off. They are not product that 31 I had a lot to do with. The 5398 possibly. 32 Q. Okay. Do you know if looking at 23 these, in looking at the descriptions of these, 24 could you tell whether these are heat-resistant 25 phenolics? 77 78 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 A. The 2933 does not look as if they 2 contain asbestos. I'm going by the specific 3 gravity. It would be the specific gravity of 4 wood flour filled. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. The sameapplies to 551. The other two would have mineral in 8 them. Whether it's asbestos or not, I would have 9 to determine by looking at the sheet. 10 Q. For the mineral filled, what other 11 minerals were used in the *63 timeframe? 12 A. We had a choice of talc, calcium 13 carbonate, mica. There may have been others, but 14 I don't recall right now. 15 Q. In looking at thefour product 16 standards here, in the right -- in the far left 17 column under properties, all four of them show 18 heat resistance in that column. 19 Do you see that, sir? The last entry 20 on each one of those, all four have heat 21 resistance? 22 A. Okay. 23 Q. All four of them indicate heat 24 resistance. Do you see that? 25 A. Yes. 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 Q. There is not a -- well, let me ask 2 you this: Does the paragraph that follows to the 3 right, is that related to the heat resistance of 4 that specific component, or is that just a 5 general statement? 6 A. That refers to the temperature that the molded part would be able to withstand. 8 Q. Okay. So if I understand you 9 correctly, we look at BMG 2933 and BMG 5051, we 10 see those both rate up to 300 degrees Fahrenheit, 11 which you indicated would be the wood flour fill, 12 right? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And the other two BMGA 5398 and 5105 15 would be able to stand temperatures up to 400 16 degrees Fahrenheit, which you indicate would be 17 mineral filled? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Other than yourspecialized knowledge 20 in terms of the specific gravity and the 21 temperature ranges, is there anything on this -- 22 product data sheets that would indicate whether 23 or not these are asbestos-containing products? 24 A. Water absorption is lower for 25 mineral-filled product or mineral-containing 79 80 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 product than wood flour. So there is a 2 difference there. 3 Q. Okay. That wouldtakespecialized 4 knowledge and understanding of the Bakelite 5 product to determine whether or not it's wood 6 filled versus mineral filled? A. Yes. 8 Q. So there is nothing here to the 9 casual observer that would indicate it's 10 asbestos-containing; is that correct? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. Looking at the bottom of all four of 13 those, I see there is kind of, I guess you would 14 call it, a banner. You see here it says the 15 term, quote, Bakelite, Krene, and, quote, 16 Vinylite are registered trademarks of 17 Union-Carbide corporation. 18 Do you see that, sir? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Do you know if that was included on 21 all materials that Union-Carbide would put out 22 with the Bakelite name on it? 23 MR. OLSEN: Objection, callsfor 24 speculation. 25 A. I don't know. 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 BY MR. GALERSTON: 2 Q. Certainly as long as Union-Carbide 3 has manufactured Bakelite material, Union-Carbide 4 has owned the Bakelite trademark, correct? 5 MR. OLSEN: Objection, calls for 6 speculation. A. I don't know -- I don't know whether 8 they owned it -- I don't know too much about the 9 detail -- what the Bakelite legally, you know. 10 what they had, what the Bakelite name -- 11 BY MR. GALERSTON: 12 Q. Okay. Let me hand you what I have 13 marked now as Exhibit 18 to your deposition. 14 (Whereupon, Exhibit 18 was marked 15 for identification.) 16 ************* 17 BY MR. GALERSTON: 18 Q. Which is a January 24, '74 Business 19 Confidential Asbestos memo, UCASB 01929101 20 through 1929106. 31 Are you familiar with this document 32 sir? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Have you seen this before today? 25 A. No. 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 Q. In January 1974, what position did 2 you hold with Union-Carbide? 3 A. I was the group manager of the 4 polyethylene molding group. 5 Q. Polyethylene molding group did not 6 use any asbestos materials at that time? 7 A. No. 8 MR. GALERSTON: That is all the 9 questions I have at this time. 10 MR. OLSEN: Let's take a break. I 11 may have one or two questions. 12 MR. GALERSTON: You got it. 13 (There was a recess.) 14 15 MR. OLSEN: I have no questions. We 16 are done. 17 MR. GALERSTON: Thank you. 18 (Whereupon, the deposition 19 concluded at 12:10 p.m.) 20 21 22 Subscribed and sworn to before me 23 this day of , 2008. 24 Carlo Martino 25 NOTARY PUBLIC 81 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 STATE OF NEW JERSEY ) Pg____of____Pgs 2 ss: 3 COUNTY OF SOMERSET ) 4 I wish to make the following changes for the 5 following reasons: 6 PAGE LINE 7 _____ _____ CHANGE: REASON: 8 _____ ____ CHANGE: REASON: 9 _____ ____ CHANGE: REASON: 10 _____ ____ CHANGE: REASON: 11 _____ ____ CHANGE: REASON: 12 _____ ____ CHANGE: REASON: 13 _____ ____ CHANGE: REASON: 14 _____ ____ CHANGE: REASON: 15 _____ ____ CHANGE: REASON: 16 _____ ____ CHANGE: REASON: 17 _____ ____ CHANGE: REASON: 18 19 20 21 22 Carlo Martino 23 24 25 82 83 84 10/30/2008 Martino, Carlo in Woodard 1 CERTIFICATE 2 I, Anthony Armstrong, a Certified 3 Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public within 4 and for the State of New York, do hereby 5 certify: 6 That CARLO MARTINO, the witness whose 7 testimony is hereinbefore set forth, was 3 duly sworn by me and that such testimony is 9 a true record of the testimony given by such 10 witness. 11 I further certify that I am not 12 related to any of the parties by blood or 13 marriage, and that I am in no way interested 14 in the outcome of this matter. 15 16 17 Anthony Armstrong IS 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 85