Document 37rvg6o3gjqDnm0aek8N6nqND

1 1 IN THE COMMONWEALTH COURT OF PENNSYLVANIA PENNSYLVANIA DEPARTMENT OF : NO. 284 2 GENERAL SERVICES, : PENNSYLVANIA DEPARTMENT OF : M.D. 1990 3 TRANSPORTATION, PENNSYLVANIA : PUBLIC UTILITY COMMISSION, : 4 PENNSYLVANIA EMERGENCY : MANAGEMENT AGENCY, and : 5 PENNSYLVANIA DEPARTMENT OF STATE: Vs. : 6 UNITED STATES MINERAL PRODUCTS: COMPANY, CERTAINTEED : 7 CORPORATION, COURTAULDS : AEROSPACE, INC., CHEMREX, INC.: 8 PHILIPS ELECTRONICS NORTH : AMERICA CORPORATION, : 9 ADVANCE TRANSFORMER COMPANY : And MONSANTO COMPANY : 10 Defendants : BEFORE THE 11 HONORABLE CHARLES P. MIRARCHI , JR. March 22, 2000 12 Trial testimony in the 13 above-captioned matter, held at the 14 Commonwealth Court of Pennsylvania, City 15 Hall, Courtroom 453, Philadelphia, 16 Pennsylvania, on Wednesday, 17 March 22, 2000, at 10:15 a.m., before 18 John W. Begley and Teresa M. Beaver, 19 Registered Professional Reporters - 20 Notaries Public there being present. 2 1 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES 22 1880 JFK BOULEVARD - 15TH FLOOR 23 PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA 24 215 - 988-9191 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060920 1 APPEARANCES: 2 2 HUMPHREY, FARRINGTON & MC CLAIN, P.C. 3 BY: KENNETH B. MC CLAIN, ESQUIRE 4 221 West Lexington - Suite 400 5 Independence, Missouri 64051 6 Phone: 816-836-5050 7 Representing the Plaintiffs 8 9 LAW OFFICES OF THOMAS W. HENDERSON 10 BY: THOMAS W. HENDERSON, ESQUIRE 11 One Oxford Center 12 Pittsburgh, PA 15219 13 Phone: 412 - 261-6474 14 Representing the Plaintiffs 15 16 MONTGOMERY, MC CRACKEN, 17 WALKER & RHOADS, LLP 18 BY: JOYCE S. MEYERS, ESQUIRE 19 123 South Broad Street 20 Philadelphia, PA 19109 21 Phone: 215-772-7452 22 Representing the Defendant Courtaulds 23 Aerospace, Inc. 24 4 1 HOYLE, MORRIS & KERR 2 BY: SUSAN K. HERSCHEL, ESQUIRE 3 One Liberty Place - Suite 4900 4 1650 Market Street 5 Philadelphia, PA 19103-7397 6 Phone: 215-981-5770 7 Representing the Defendant CertainTeed 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 1 WHITE & WILLIAMS 3 2 BY: THOMAS M. GOUTMAN, ESQUIRE 3 KATHY A. O'NEILL, ESQUIRE 4 WILLIAM YOUNGBLOOD, ESQUIRE 5 One Liberty Place - 18th Floor 6 1650 Market Street 7 Philadelphia, PA 19102 8 Phone: 215 - 864-7000 9 Representing the Defendant Monsanto 10 Corporation 11 12 DANAHER, TEDFORD, LAGNESE & NEAL, PC 13 BY: KENNETH R. NEAL, ESQUIRE 14 Capitol Place 15 21 Oak Street 16 Hartford, Connecticut 06106 17 Phone: 860-247-3666 18 Representing the Defendant U.S. 19 Mineral Company 20 21 22 23 24 1 INDEX 2 Testimony of: John P. Woodyard 3 By Mr. Goutman 4 By Mr. McClain 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 5 PAGE ESQUIRE DE POSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60921 68 1 THE COURT: Malcolm needs 1 jury in? 2 next Thursday off, the 30th. What 2 THE COURT: I'm sorry I'm 3 is his last name -- 3 late. 4 MS. HERSCHEL: Queen. 4 MR. EDGE: In the name of 5 MR. EDGE: Queen. 5 the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania 6 THE COURT: Queen. He needs 6 this Commonwealth Court is now 7 the 30th off. I gather it is 7 declared open, the Honorable 8 somewhat personal and I did not 8 Charles P. Mirarchi, Jr., 9 inquire as to the reason. And the 9 presiding. Please be seated. 10 young lady that was in here -- 10 Good morning. 11 MR. EDGE: Harris, Elizabeth 11 THE COURT: Good morning. 12 Harris. 12 Mr. Goutman. 13 THE COURT: Harris will be 13 MR. GOUTMAN: Thank you, 14 late tomorrow because she got a 14 Your Honor. 15 new apartment and she is moving 15 MR. EDGE: Sir, just state 16 into a senior citizen home at 8th 16 your full name and spell your last 17 and Spring Garden. She's thrilled 17 name for the record. 18 with the idea, but because she's 18 THE WITNESS: John Woodyard, 19 moving in she can't get here 19 WOODYARD. 20 before 11. 20 -- 21 MR. MCCLAIN: Okay. 21 JOHN WOODYARD, recalled. 22 THE COURT: But I wanted 22 -- 23 to - 23 MR. EDGE: I remind you that 24 MR. NEAL: There are a lot 24 you are still under oath. 79 1 of us, judge, by the end of this 1 MR. GOUTMAN: Good morning, 2 case that can move into the senior 2 ladies and gentlemen. 3 citizen home. 3 (Jury responds good morning) 4 MR. MCCLAIN: She didn't 4 Good morning, Your Honor. 5 qualify before the trial started. 5 Good morning, Mr. Woodyard. 6 THE COURT: By the end of 6 May I proceed. Your Honor? 7 the case we may all be living 7 THE COURT: You may proceed. 8 there. 8-- 9 Mary tells me this is the 9 BY MR. GOUTMAN: 10 eighth day Woodyard has been here. 10 Q. Thank you. 11 MR. MC.CLAIN: Hopefully it 11 Mr. Woodyard, where we left 12 will be the end. 12 off we were talking about these Ewing 13 THE COURT: But apparently 13 experiments. Do you recall that? 14 he has only testified four 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 previous times because we were 15 Q. Now, have you committed to 16 doing motions the other times. 16 memory all of Ewing's data from that 17 MR. GOUTMAN: I will have to 17 experiment? 18 check. 18 A. No. 19 THE COURT: Whatever. 19 Q. Do you have a copy of 20 Okay. Any problems from 20 Ewing's report up there? 21 your end? 21 A. No, I don't. 22 MR. GOUTMAN: No, Your 22 Q. Let me hand to you actually 23 Honor. Can we just take a brief 23 a page from my copy of his report that 24 comfort break before we bring the 24 has the date on it. Okay? ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60922 10 1 Now, sir, can you explain to 2 the jury what you meant when you said 3 that the results were inconsistent, and I 4 think you said defied known laws of 5 science? 6 A. Well, I think the phrase I 7 used was internally inconsistent. If you 8 raise the temperature to some level over 9 and over again with the same, basically 10 the same piece of ductboard, you would 11 expect the same thing to happened, and 12 what Mr. Ewing's results showed is that 13 the14 Q. What would you expect to 15 happen? 16 A. You would expect the level 17 of PCBs in the air to increase. 18 Vaporization rates increase as 19 temperature goes up. 20 Q. Is there a known 21 relationship between temperature and 22 evaporation? 23 A. Yes, for just about any 24 chemical. 12 1 the graph would look like. As I 2 said, the level of PCBs, the 3 vaporization rate of PCBs you 4 would expect to increase as the 5 temperature goes up. That's basic 6 science. That's true for any 7 chemical with any vapor pressure. 8 (Indicating) 9 BY MR. GOUTMAN: 10 Q. What was the data that was, 11 this might be somewhat complicated, but 12 maybe if you just set forth the data and 13 tell us what you mean by inconsistencies. 14 Okay? Can you do that? 15 By the way, this ductboard 16 that you tested, was it taken before or 17 after the fire? 18 A. It was collected after the 19 fire. 20 Q. And if you could, arrange it 21 by chambers. I don't know if Mr. Ewing 22 does that. I don't have a copy of his 23 report. 24 A. What I'm doing is setting up 11 1 Q. Could you draw a graph of 2 the known relationship? 3 A. In rough form, sure. 4 MR. GOUTMAN: I'm going to 5 turn over now, Your Honor, this 6 great art work that I created 7 yesterday. 8 Could the witness come down? 9 THE COURT: You may come 10 down. 11 BY MR. GOUTMAN: 12 Q. Mr. Woodyard. 13 A. This is a graph or the basis 14 of a graph. This would be, in this case, 15 PCB level - (Indicating). 16 THE COURT: Keep your voice 17 up, please. 18 THE WITNESS: I'll tell you 19 what I will do; this is a graph 20 with the PCB level, increasing PCB 21 level going like this. Increasing 22 temperature going like this. 23 Without any real numbers on it, 24 but just in general this is what 13 1 a table that is kind of like Mr. Ewing's 2 table. He has got sample numbers. The 3 ones over here are from chamber two, 4 chamber three, and chamber four. That's 5 first number there and then there's test 6 numbers. He did three consecutive hours 7 in this chamber, which he raised the 8 temperature as you will see. I will 9 write down the temperature, the highest 10 temperature that he found or achieved in 11 each - the highest temperature he 12 achieved in each of those tests, which is 13 laid out a little differently in 14 Mr. Ewing's. 15 What were the ductboard 16 concentrations? 17 Q. Here. (Indicating). 18 There's a lot of numbers. 19 Could you tell us what we are looking at, 20 please, sir? 21 A. What this represents is the 22 results of Mr. Ewing's experiments. You 23 will recall that he heated three pieces 24 of ductboard in three different chambers ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60923 14 1 and raised the temperature each hour to a 2 roughly different number and measured the 3 PCBs that came off in the air inside of ' 4 that small chamber. 5 Q. At what point is he 6 collecting air? 7 A. Throughout the course of the 8 test and running it through a collector 9 and then analyzing the collector at the 10 end of the hour, or basically -- 11 THE COURT: Could you use 12 the microphone? 13 THE WITNESS: Yes, he's 14 drawing air off during the course 15 of the test at a low rate and then 16 collecting the PCBs from that air, 17 and as we discussed yesterday, 18 he's controlling the temperature 19 using the sun lamp and dialing the 20 temperature up or down as 21 appropriate. 22 BY MR. GOUTMAN: 23 Q. Now, this is chamber-- 24 A. The first one is chamber 16 1 answer, please. 2 A. Well, first going back to 3 the question you asked earlier, about 4 internal inconsistencies, why this data 5 doesn't make sense, there are 6 situations -- let's take this 3-1 and 3-2 7 as examples. These are consecutive hours 8 in the same chamber. This first test 9 went up to 123 degrees. The level of 10 PCBs in the air was over 4,000 micrograms 11 per cubic meter. 12 THE COURT: Is that 4395? 13 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. I 14 forgot the comma. It is 4,395. 15 The next hour the 16 temperature was held at a peak 17 about 121.8, which is a little 18 lower than that temperature but 19 not a lot, and the concentration 20 of PCBs is about one tenth of the 21 one preceding it, so it is almost 22 the same temperature but the 23 levels of PCBs that he was 24 measuring were dramatically 15 1 two, chamber three, chamber four. 2 Q. And this is after how many 3 minutes? 4 A. Well, this first test, each 5 test is an hour long. 6 Q. So this is after one hour, 7 two hour, three hours; one hour, two 8 hours, three hours; one hour, two hours 9 and three hours? 10 A. Right, and these were the 11 highest temperatures that were measured 12 in the air in each of those chambers. 13 Q. And what is the next column? 14 A. The next column shows the 15 results of testing of the air that was 16 drawn off during that hour, so in this 17 case it is 374 micrograms per cubic 18 meter. The next one is non detect. In 19 other words, there was no PCBs detected 20 in the air, and the next one was 1763 21 micrograms per cubic meter. 22 Q. Now, could you explain to 23 the jury what significant conclusions you 24 reached from this data and explain your 17 1 different, which doesn't make any 2 sense. 3 The flip side of that is 4 these two right here, 3-1 and 3-3. 5 In this case, this is the third 6 hour, this is the first hour. The 7 temperature was raised 15 degrees, 8 up to 138 degrees in the chamber. 9 The levels of PCBs are the same. 10 In other words, it doesn't follow 11 that curve I was showing you where 12 you expect -- 13 BY MR. GOUTMAN: 14 Q. Are they exactly the same? 15 A. Approximately the same, but 16 for our purposes it is close enough that 17 you would expect a more significant 18 difference as a result. 19 Q. How about comparing 3-1 and 20 2-3? 21 A. 3-1 and 2-3, again, we 22 talked about 3-1. In the case of 2-3, 23 which is in the second chamber, the 24 temperature is a little bit higher, about ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60924 18 1 five degrees higher, but the PCBs levels 2 in the air were almost three times lower. 3 Q. Is that consistent with the 4 known laws of science? 5 A. No. Again, you would expect 6 this level to be higher than that level 7 because the temperature is higher. 8 (Indicating). 9 THE COURT: Just for the 10 sake of clarity, you have a column 11 marked temperature, T E M P. 12 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 13 THE COURT: You have a 14 column marked RB Air. What is RB? 15 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, 16 this is my handwriting. This is 17 about as good as it gets. That's 18 PCBs. 19 THE COURT: That's PCBs. 20 THE WITNESS: PCBs air and 21 the column next to it is PCBs 22 duct. In each case he also had 23 analyzed a piece of the ductboard, 24 itself. In other words, sent a 20 1 all, so it pretty much casts doubt on all 2 of these results because they really 3 don't make any sense from a scientific 4 point. 5 Q. With this data, if you tried 6 to plot this would you get this curve? 7 (Indicating). 8 A. Oh, no, it would be kind of 9 zig zaggy like this. Levels way above 10 and below the graph. In other words, it 11 doesn't fit this graph at all. 12 (Indicating). 13 Q. What does that tell you 14 about the validity of Mr. Ewing's test? 15 A. I wouldn't trust it. I 16 mean, I wouldn't use this result or that 17 test for anything. 18 Q. Now, going back to this, 19 what was the lowest temperature at which 20 he actually detected any PCB? 21 A. I think it was at 104.6 was 22 the lowest temperature which he actually 23 was able to measure PCB. 24 Q. Did he take measurements at 19 1 piece of duct to the lab and had 2 them analyze it for PCBs and these 3 are the levels that he found in 4 those pieces of duct, 640 parts 5 per million on down to 180 parts 6 per million in the ductboard. 7 BY MR. GOUTMAN: 8 Q. What about 3-2 and 4-1. 9 A. 3-2 and 4-1, here we have a 10 result where the, in 4-1, the air level 11 that was drawn off of the chamber is a 12 little bit higher, maybe 14 degrees 13 higher -- excuse me. The level of PCBs 14 in the air is about 14 micrograms per 15 cubic meter higher. Roughly the same, 16 but not exactly. If you look at the 17 temperatures, however, the one with the 18 lower PCB result is almost 17 degrees, it 19 is about 17 degrees higher. In other 20 words, as I was saying before, when the 21 temperature goes up from this to this you 22 would expect this level to go up from 23 this to some much higher number, and 24 that, of course, is not what he found at 21 1 lower temperatures? 2 A. Yes, this one up here, 2-2, 3 and this one down here, 4-2, were both 4 around 102 or 103 degrees. Those were 5 the lowest temperatures that he tested at 6 and noted that both of those had non 7 detect results. In other words, he did 8 not find PCB in those samples at those 9 temperatures, which is at least 30 10 degrees higher than room temperature, 11 which I thought was significant. 12 Q. What does that tell you, 13 sir? 14 A. It certainly tells me that 15 you wouldn't expect to find any 16 measurable PCB in the building as a 17 result of off gassing during normal 18 operation. 19 Q. Now, this duct that he's 20 testing, it was taken when; before or 21 after the fire? 22 A. It was taken after the fire. 23 Q. And what's the significance 24 of that? ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60925 22 24 1 MR. MC. CLAIN: Your Honor, 1 Your Honor. 2 this is cumulative. We have been 2 MR. MC. CLAIN: It is 3 over this. 3 argument by counsel. 4 THE COURT: I'm sorry. I 4 THE COURT: Overruled. 5 didn't hear you. 5 BY MR. GOUTMAN: 6 MR. MC.CLAIN: I'm sorry, 6 Q. Let me restate the question. 7 Your Honor. This is cumulative. 7 What would you place more weight on as an 8 This question has been asked and 8 engineer and a PCB specialist; an 9 answered at least five times. 9 experiment where three post fire pieces 10 MR. GOUTMAN: It has not 10 of ductboard are placed in chambers and 11 been asked or answered once in 11 baked for three hours or over 5,000 air 12 terms of the significance of the 12 tests taken over the course of 13 post fire - 13 two-and-a-half years in the actual 14 THE COURT: Overruled. 14 building, itself? 15 THE WITNESS: The reason it 15 A. I would definitely place 16 is significant, if you will recall 16 more weight on what we found in the 17 Mr. Ewing's objective when he did 17 building, the thousands of air samples 18 this test was to try to simulate 18 that don't show any PCB off gassing from 19 what might happen to the ductboard 19 the ductboard. 20 in the building. What he did was 20 Q. Now, sir, Mr. Neal showed 21 test pieces of ductboard that have 21 you a couple of CertainTeed documents 22 been exposed to the smoke or fire 22 concerning production experiments. Do 23 already, so he wasn't necessarily 23 you recall that? 24 even seeing any PCB coming out of 24 A. Yes, sir. 23 1 an adhesive in the duct. What he 2 could have easily been seeing is 3 PCB coming off the surface of the 4 fiberglass that had been deposited 5 during the fire, so it wasn't a 6 new piece of ductboard, if you 7 want to look at it that way. 8 BY MR. GOUTMAN: 9 Q. And what was he baking the 10 surface with? 11 A. With a sun lamp that we 12 talked about yesterday. 13 Q. Now, sir, bottom line as an 14 engineer and PCB specialist, what do you 15 place more weight on; this experiment 16 where three pieces of post fire duct were 17 put into three chambers and heated with 18 heat lamps for three hours or over 5,000 19 air tests taken over two-and-a-half years 20 in the actual building, itself? 21 MR. MC.CLAIN: Your Honor, 22 this is argument by counsel. 23 MR. GOUTMAN: I'm saying 24 what he would give more weight to, 25 1 Q. And could you just remind us 2 what is a production experiment? 3 A. Well, the experiments that 4 he was referring to, when we were looking 5 through the CertainTeed documents, were 6 the experiments done by people in a plant 7 or in a laboratory to prove that what 8 they were doing to make duct for 9 production purposes was working and 10 working on ways to improve, improve that 11 workduct. 12 Q. And what conclusions did you 13 draw from those production documents from 14 CertainTeed regarding tests on the glue 15 used in ductboard? 16 A. Well, to me, from an 17 industrial engineering perspective, the 18 important thing is they were trying to 19 improve it and solve any problems they 20 identified. You would assume from that 21 that in a production setting that they 22 made the improvements, that they were 23 learning and improving the process as 24 they went. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60926 26 1 Q. Did those documents indicate 2 anything about whether the glue in the 3 duct that was actually manufactured and 4 sold to customers had any problems? 5 A. No, they did not. 6 Q. Are you aware of any 7 evidence of glue failure in the duct in 8 the Transportation & Safety Building? 9 A. No, sir. 10 Q. What would have happened if 11 the PCB had jumped out of the glue in the 12 duct in the Transportation & Safety 13 Building as plaintiffs allege in this 14 case? 15 A. The ductboard would probably 16 have collapsed. It was part of what was 17 holding the ductboard together. 18 Q. Is there any evidence of 19 that? 20 A. No, sir. 21 Q. Did you, yourself, look at 22 pieces of ductboard? 23 A. Yes, I did, and I didn't see 24 any evidence of that. 28 1 A. No, in this setting they had 2 isolated the floor and they were venting 3 the air to the outside as opposed to 4 ventilating it back into other floors of 5 the building, so there was no reason to 6 take that many samples. 7 Q. Having taken those samples 8 what did they indicate? 9 A. They typically indicated 10 that the PCB air levels were safe, even 11 on the sixth floor. 12 Q. In terms of the respiratory 13 protection that was used on the sixth 14 floor, was that related, in your 15 judgment, to any PCB in the air based 16 upon these air tests? 17 A. No, not at all. Not based 18 on my experience. 19 Q. What was it based on? 20 A. It was based on the original 21 concern over asbestos on the fire floors. 22 Q. Sir, with respect to the 23 sixth floor, and for that matter the 24 other fire floors: Four, five, and 27 1 Q. Sir, we showed you yesterday 2 the, I don't know if you still have it up 3 there, but let me grab it for you, the 4 1994 air sample results. Do you recall 5 that? 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. And counsel had asked you 8 about the number of tests that were done 9 on the sixth floor, the fire floor. Do 10 you recall that? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And there were quite a few 13 tests throughout 1994 done on the sixth 14 floor, the air tests. 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q. Sir, at the time these tests 17 were being performed was the sixth floor 18 open to the public? 19 A. No, it was sealed and 20 unoccupied. 21 Q. As a PCB specialist, is 22 there any reason that you can think of to 23 pay for hundreds of air tests on a floor 24 that is not being occupied by the public? 29 1 seven, is there any reason why those 2 floors couldn't have been cleaned right 3 after the fire? 4 A. No, they could easily have 5 been cleaned. 6 Q. Is there any reason why the 7 state couldn't have cleaned the entire 8 building after the fire from a PCB 9 clean-up specialist's perspective? 10 A. No, they could have cleaned 11 it immediately. 12 Q. Is there any reason why they 13 couldn't have cleaned it to the NIOSH 14 level if they had preferred right after 15 the fire? 16 A. No, they could have done 17 that, too, if they wanted to. 18 MR. GOUTMAN: I have no 19 further questions, YourHonor. 20 MR. MC. CLAIN: Good morning, 21 Mr. Woodyard. 22 Good morning, ladies and 23 gentlemen. 24 (Jury responds good morning) e* ESQUIRE DE POSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60927 30 1 May I begin, Your Honor? 2 THE COURT: You may begin. 3-- 4 RE-CROSS EXAMINATION 5-- 6 BY MR. MC. CLAIN: 7 Q. Mr. Woodyard, you told Mr. 8 Goutman you cleaned up PCBs in over 50 9 states. 10 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. 11 THE WITNESS: I don't think 12 there are over 50 states. 13 BY MR. MC. CLAIN: 14 Q. In all 50 states. 15 A. No, I don't think there was 16 any testimony to that effect. I cleaned 17 up PCBs in probably most of the U.S. 18 Q. Most of the states. 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And you have been paid here 21 what; over 250,000 you told us? 22 A. Yes, I believe that was my 23 testimony. 24 Q. Now you are up over 300 32 1 those words. There have been instances 2 where people called me up with data they 3 collected and asked me whether they 4 needed to do any clean-up or not, and in 5 some cases I told them that I didn't 6 think so, that it was safe according to 7 EPA. 8 Q. But did you tell them at any 9 of these places where the levels were 10 under ten, Oh, don't each bother. It can 11 only cause chloracne. Have you ever said 12 that? 13 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, 14 Your Honor. He just answered that 15 question. 16 THE COURT: Overruled. 17 THE WITNESS: No, as I said 18 I'm sure I have never used those 19 words. 20 BY MR. MC. CLAIN: 21 Q. I mean, even above the EPA 22 level, according to Dr. James, it is not 23 a problem. Have you ever said, Don't 24 worry about it even if it is above the 31 1 something somewhere. 2 A. I don't know. 3 Q. And when you go around 4 working on these other PCB clean-ups you 5 charge for your time as well, don't you? 6 A. Yes, that's correct. 7 Q. So you have been paid 8 hundreds of thousands of dollars for 9 doing this work all across the country; 10 is that right? 11 A. Yes, that's correct. 12 Q. And what we have heard from 13 you is that the only thing that this PCB 14 causes is this acne condition, chloracne; 15 is that right? Is that your testimony? 16 A. That's my understanding of 17 the current literature, yes. 18 Q. Whenever someone calls you 19 up and says, Mr. Woodyard, we want you to 20 come to our state and clean up these PCBs 21 have you ever said, Oh, don't even 22 bother. It's not even a problem. Have 23 you ever said that when they call you up? 24 A. I certainly have never used 33 1 EPA level? Have you ever said that? 2 A. No, not that I can recall. 3 Q. Now, let's talk for a minute 4 about this smoke and soot issue. 5 As I heard you say it, not 6 only did the smoke go up, it went down 7 and all over independent of the HVAC 8 system; isn't that right? 9 A. I don't believe that was my 10 testimony. The smoke, as you saw in the 11 videos, did go up and down. How it went 12 up and down is -- was due to a number of 13 different things, including the 14 ventilation system, but also conduits, 15 elevator shafts. I wasn't there. I 16 don't know exactly how it happened. 17 Q. But we saw that it was 18 uniform in its spread in the basement and 19 elsewhere that was on a separate HVAC 20 system, isn't that right, in terms of the 21 PCB? 22 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. 23 Compound. 24 MR. MC. CLAIN: I don't want ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60928 34 1 to be interrupted like this 2 repeatedly, Your Honor. 3 MR. GOUTMAN: It is a 4 compound question. 5 MR. MC.CLAIN: I wasn't 6 even done with my question. 7 THE COURT: Overruled. 8 BY MR. MC. CLAIN: 9 Q. Mr. Woodyard, we saw from 10 the data, didn't we, that the PCB levels 11 when you looked at the mean were equal 12 throughout the building except on the 13 sixth floor; isn't that true? 14 A. Well, we talked about this 15 the other day. The PCB levels found on 16 surfaces and fireproofing and all 17 different media vary all over the place. 18 There were relatively consistent average 19 results found on all of the floors except 20 the fire floor. 21 Q. And you told us the way to 22 look at the data yesterday, when you 23 looked at your table five is to look at 24 the averages. Isn't that what you told 36 1 example of relatively high levels in a 2 place where only smoke would explain that 3 kind of level. 4 Q. What would explain how the 5 11th floor got more contaminated than the 6 other floors? How did that happen from 7 simply smoke? 8 A. It would clearly be because 9 of a smoke related deposit. 10 Q. Did smoke go to the 11th 11 floor better than it did the eighth floor 12 right above? The seventh? 13 A. Well, apparently it did. 14 The data is telling. It's not the smoke 15 videos which are subjective as to how 16 much is on what floor; it is the actual 17 measurements that really make the 18 difference. 19 Q. How, Mr. Woodyard? How? 20 How did it get there? It is the same 21 HVAC system. How did it get there, Mr. 22 Woodyard? 23 A. That was my point, the smoke 24 clearly to me, given that it distributes 35 1 this jury under oath yesterday? 2 A. Yes, given that I only had 3 14 or 28 samples to work with. 4 Q. Just look at the averages is 5 what you told them. You had to do that 6 scientifically. Isn't that what you 7 said? 8 A. Yes. Given that data that 9 was about the only thing I could do 10 because there wasn't enough of it. 11 Q. And when we look at the 12 averages of the other data we find the 13 same levels throughout the building of 14 PCB; isn't that right? 15 A. About the same levels as 16 what? I'm sorry. 17 Q. The same average levels on 18 every floor except the sixth floor; isn't 19 that true? 20 A. No, I think my testimony the 21 other day, in fact, was that there was 22 significant differences in the averages, 23 for example, on hard surfaces, I pointed 24 out the 11th floor, to give you an 37 1 itself differently throughout the 2 building, would explain that kind of 3 difference. The off gassing theory on 4 the 11th floor, which is no different 5 than any other floor, would not explain 6 why the levels would be that dramatically 7 higher. 8 Q. Except that you mentioned 9 that the 11th floor had been renovated; 10 isn't that right? 11 A. Yes, sir. 12 Q. Do you know what was 13 involved in that renovation? 14 A. From the pictures it 15 appeared to be carpeting and new walls 16 and new furniture. Basically new, fresh 17 surfaces. 18 Q. New walls? They put new 19 walls in there? Someone told you that? 20 A. No, I'm talking about 21 partitions. Basically office furniture. 22 Q. Do you know anything else 23 that uniquely happened on the 11th floor 24 that hadn't happened on any of the other ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60929 38 1 floors? 2 A. No, other than that fact, 3 which I thought was pretty significant. 4 Q. Do you know whether or not 5 that floor was heated during that time to 6 dry paint? Do you know anything about 7 the renovations that were done on the 8 11th floor just what; one year before the 9 measurements were taken? Do you know 10 anything about it? 11 A. No, except that new, fresh 12 surfaces were placed on the floor and the 13 levels were still higher than on other 14 floors, which could only be explained by 15 soot deposits. It couldn't be explained 16 by off gassing from the ductwork. 17 Q. Except you don't have any 18 evidence of soot deposits, do you? 19 A. Yes, I do, I have got 20 videotapes that show people rubbing desks 21 and kicking floors and showing soot 22 deposits all over the place. 23 Q. Were there any samples that 24 were taken which disclosed that it was 40 1 Q. You can't tell whether dust 2 is soot because it is black, can you? 3 (Indicating). 4 A. No, but in the same context 5 of that question I referred to testimony 6 by people like Mr. Cocciardi, who had 7 identified evidence of soot and smoke on 8 those floors after the fire. 9 Q. You mentioned Mr. Mancuso 10 and you said that he said that it was 11 basically all over. Isn't that what his 12 testimony was? 13 A. Yes, I think the words he 14 used was on every square inch in the 15 building. 16 Q. And as a scientist you know 17 that that term is not a precise term, 18 don't you? When you and I speak in 19 casual conversation we say, It was 20 everywhere. We don't mean it was on 21 every surface, do we? Is that the way we 22 talk casually? 23 A. No, but, again, going back 24 to my earlier answer, the whole idea of 39 1 soot as opposed to dust that you saw? 2 A. No, the samples that were 3 collected were typically collected after 4 the soot had been removed by the cleaning 5 service. 6 Q. And, sir, you mentioned 7 something that you could tell the soot 8 because it was black dust; isn't that 9 what you said? Black dust. In the 10 basement. You said you went in three 11 years after the fire and found soot; 12 right? That's what you said? 13 A. Yes, in the context of the 14 question it was asked how I could tell 15 that there could be any soot there, and I 16 explained that it was clear where people 17 had taken samples because of the 18 Q. Black dust? 19 A. -- black dust or what I 20 presumed to be soot on the wall. 21 Q. Black dust. Mr. Woodyard, 22 have we had a fire in this room since 23 this trial began? 24 A. No, sir. 41 1 judging contamination by seeing smoke is, 2 perhaps, useful as a clue, but ultimately 3 it is the actual sampling and the 4 measuring that is important to somebody 5 like me playing PCB detective and 6 eventually doing PCB clean-ups. 7 Q. And I know that you have 8 said you don't need tests. You don't 9 need tests like Mr. Ewing conducted. You 10 don't need to do your own air tests. You 11 don't need to test soot. You can tell 12 the difference because you are a basic 13 scientist. Is that what your testimony 14 is? 15 A. I don't recall testifying to 16 anything along those lines. 17 Q. But it is true, isn't it, 18 that sometimes what we think we see tests 19 tell us whether we are right; isn't that 20 right. 21 A. Well, in this case, as I 22 said, what was important to me in 23 evaluating the release and clean-up is 24 the measurements. It is the actual ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060930 42 1' sample results. 2 0. Now, let me ask you there 3 are tests that would tell us whether or 4 not there was soot here; isn't that 5 right? Tests that would detect carbon in 6 dust samples. 7 A. I imagine so. I'm not that 8 familiar with that science. 9 Q. You don't know about those 10 things. 11 A. No. 12 Q. And so when you say that you 13 think it is soot you don't know whether 14 there would be tests which would tell you 15 that it was soot or not; am I right? Is 16 that what you are telling me? 17 A. There may well be. 18 Q. Now, let's look at another 19 piece of your evidence regarding these 20 samples that were taken before the fire. 21 Where is that chart? 22 Mr. Goutman, is it still 23 here? 24 MR. GOUTMAN: Yes. 44 1 in the black one. I will refer to 2 the blue one. 3 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 4 Q. Look over with me at page 5 95, would you? 6 A. 95? 7 Q. Yes, 95. 8 Your Honor, I apologize. I 9 don't have a copy of this page for you. 10 THE COURT: You may proceed. 11 BY MR. MC. CLAIN: 12 Q. On the PCB inspections 13 section, data collection. Do you see 14 where I am? 15 A. Yes, sir. 16 Q. It says under the "Split 17 Sample" heading -- do you see that? 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. It says, "Company 20 representatives must be familiar with 21 sample preservation methods as well as 22 chain of custody procedures." 23 Did I read that accurately? 24 A. Yes, you did. 43 1 BY MR. MC. CLAIN: 2 Q. Now, I think you said that 3 these samples on table five were taken by 4 a laboratory in Chicago called Severn 5 Trent Laboratory; is that right? 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. They performed the 8 analysis -- 9 A. Yes, they performed the 10 analysis. 11 Q. -- to be accurate. 12 Now, you know of, in your 13 book any way, and we will use the black 14 one. Do you have your book up there? 15 A. No, I do not. 16 MR. MC. CLAIN: Mr. Goutman, 17 do you have a copy that he could 18 refer to of his book? 19 MR. GOUTMAN: I have the one 20 that I would like to refer to 21 during his testimony. 22 MR. MC. CLAIN: I have got 23 the blue one. I will refer to the 24 blue book. It says the same thing 45 1 Q. Now, I want to ask you about 2 something. This Severn Trent Laboratory 3 that you utilized is a big outfit, aren't 4 they? 5 A. Yes, sir, they are. 6 Q. And they just bought a 7 company called IEA, didn't they? 8 A. I don't know. 9 Q. You are familiar with IEA 10 aren't you? 11 A. Is that the full name of the 12 company? 13 Q. It is Industrial and 14 Environmental Analysis, Inc. IEA. 15 A. I'm not familiar with them, 16 no, sir. 17 Q. Are you familiar with their 18 book, "A Practical Guide to Environmental 19 Laboratory Services"? 20 A. No, I'm not. 21 Q. Do you know about the 22 subject of holding times? 23 A. A little bit, yes. It is a 24 common issue in doing field sampling. ESQUIRE DE POSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60931 46 1 Q. Tell the jury about that, 2 would you. Holding times. What does it 3 mean? What do holding times mean? 4 A. EPA, as part of some of 5 their standard procedures, particularly 6 for their own work, specifies how long 7 they believe the laboratory, between the 8 sampler and the laboratory, how long a 9 time should lapse between when the sample 10 is taken and when it is actually 11 analyzed or in some cases just extracted 12 by the laboratory, and those are 13 typically expressed in days or weeks or 14 months. 15 Q. Holding times. They have 16 them established for various methods of 17 analysis in regard to PCB, don't they? 18 A. Yes, they do. 19 Q. And the method that was 20 utilized to analyze these bulk samples 21 was the soil method, wasn't it? 22 A. I believe so, yes. 23 Q. You are familiar with Dr. 24 Erickson's book that we have heard about? 48 1 Q. Are you with me, 2 Mr. Woodyard? 3 A. Yes, I am. 4 Q. Your Honor, again, I 5 apologize. I should have made a copy of 6 this page, too. 7 THE COURT: We will follow. 8 BY MR. MC. CLAIN: 9 Q. Now, Mr. Woodyard, the time 10 listed for the holding of these samples 11 before analysis, in terms of what the EPA 12 considers valid, is how long? 13 A. It is 14 days until the 14 extraction is done. 15 Q. 14 days. 14 days. How long 16 were these samples held before they were 17 analyzed? 18 A. They were held for 19 approximately seven years. 20 Q. Seven years. 21 A. Yes, sir. 22 Q. The EPA says hold them no 23 longer than 14 days and you have done an 24 analysis from samples that were held for 47 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And do you know Dr. 3 Erickson? 4 A. Yes, I do. 5 Q. Is he coming to testify, do 6 you know? 7 A. I don't know. 8 Q. Now, in Dr. Erickson's book 9 it says that the holding time, this is at 10 page 136, counsel, for soil and 11 sediment- 12 MR. GOUTMAN: Excuse me. I 13 don't have anything on page 136. 14 MR. MC.CLAIN: 136 there's 15 a chart -- 16 MR. GOUTMAN: Okay. 17 MR. MC. CLAIN: Do you see 18 it 19 MR. GOUTMAN: Yes. 20 MR. MC.CLAIN: And it has 21 holding times listed forsamples 22 from soil. Are you with me? 23 MR. GOUTMAN: Yes. 24 BY MR. MC. CLAIN: 49 1 seven years; right? 2 A. Yes, but perhaps you are not 3 understanding the whole concept of 4 holding time. It is designed at least in 5 theory, to keep the sample from 6 deteriorating in some way or the 7 concentration to change, like if you have 8 a really volatile material like alcohol 9 or something like that, you would expect 10 that if you held it long enough that the 11 alcohol would go away. There is no 12 science behind what EPA has set up as a 13 holding time for PCB because there's no 14 evidence, even in their own studies, that 15 there is a loss of PCB or a change in 16 concentration, for the same reasons we 17 have been talking about here. It is 18 stable, has extremely low vapor pressure, 19 it doesn't deteriorate on its own 20 biologically or otherwise. 21 Q. Mr. Woodyard, are you 22 smarter than the EPA? They have 23 established a holding time for PCB, 24 haven't they? ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060932 50 1 A. Well, I don't suggest that 2 I'm smarter than EPA, but I do suggest 3 that the basis for having a holding time 4 isn't necessarily scientific. 5 Q. So once again the EPA is 6 wrong when they have a holding time of 14 7 days; is that right? 8 A. I'm just saying that there's 9 no scientific basis for them to say that. 10 Q. Why do they do it? Why? 11 Why is it that the EPA again has a rule 12 which doesn't comply with the scientific 13 knowledge that you say everyone knows? 14 A. The EPA development of 15 holding times originally was for samples 16 taken and analyzed on their own projects. 17 It has been argued that the reason for 18 setting up a holding time, particularly 19 on materials like PCB, where there's no 20 scientific basis for doing it, is just 21 simply to get the samples run more 22 quickly. I believe that's even cited in 23 Mr. Erickson's book elsewhere. 24 Q. It is true, isn't it, that 52 1 litigation setting you have to analyze 2 them within 14 days, don't you? 3 A. Yes, if you are comparing 4 your results with EPA's -- 5 Q. And it is true, isn't it, 6 that you have never seen the EPA accept 7 samples seven years old in litigation, 8 have you? 9 A. I have never been involved 10 with EPA in litigation, so I don't know 11 what12 Q. Of course, you had other 13 results to look at, results from the 14 Gannett Fleming laboratory, and you 15 refused to look at them, didn't you, to 16 see whether your results were different 17 from theirs? 18 A. Oh, yes, I think we 19 discussed that before. It was simply a 20 series of sheets with results with no 21 back-up. 22 Q. And you refused to look at 23 them. 24 A. Just as EPA would refuse, 51 1 for samples to be valid under the EPA's 2 method they have to be analyzed under 14 3 days or EPA won't' accept the results; am 4 I right? 5 A. That's not true. A lot of 6 samples that I have seen analyzed have 7 been held for months or years, and I'm 8 talking about PCB samples in this case, 9 and EPA has been perfectly happy with the 10 result because they don't hold people to 11 this holding time issue except in 12 litigation type situations. 13 Q. Like we are here about. 14 A. Which is not the norm. 15 Q. We are in litigation, aren't 16 we? 17 A. But we are not -- what I'm 18 talking about in EPA litigation is 19 enforcement where they are actually 20 accusing somebody of violating the law 21 and trying to use samples as proof. It 22 is a very, very different setting than 23 what we are dealing with here. 24 Q. To be valid in an EPA 53 1 under your scenario, to look at them, 2 too, because of the lack of back-up, the 3 lack of quality control, the lack of 4 possible experience of the lab doing PCB 5 testing. 6 Q. But as we demonstrated, 7 utilizing EPA's standard your samples 8 were deficient but you were willing to 9 look at those and you weren't willing to 10 look at the Gannett Fleming samples; 11 isn't that right? 12 A. No, that's not correct. As 13 I said, there is no scientific reason to 14 claim that my samples are not valid, 15 regardless of this holding time issue 16 that you raised. It's not a scientific 17 thing; it is an administrative thing. 18 Q. It is an administrative 19 thing now. 20 A. Yes, as I pointed out, 21 there's no science, and even the 22 literature backs this up, to justify a 14 23 day holding time for PCB, so people 24 typically, and I have seen this happen on ESQUIRE DE POSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60933 54 1 many projects, typically exceed that 2 holding time because they aren't 3 concerned about it. 4 Q. Then why does EPA publish 5 the number? Why does EPA say it is a 6 standard? Why does Dr. Erickson publish 7 it in his book, saying that those are the 8 holding times that are established for 9 these various extractions -- 10 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. 11 Compound questions, Your Honor. 12 THE COURT: Sustained. 13 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 14 Q. Take them one at a time. 15 A. As I mentioned, elsewhere in 16 Mr. Erickson's book he talks about 17 exactly the same thing I'm talking about, 18 that being that EPA's original motivation 19 for developing holding times for 20 chemicals like PCBs was simply to make 21 sure that the analysis was done quickly 22 by the contract laboratories. 23 Q. And they also have some 24 specifications in this book about the 56 1 A. I said for soil I believe 2 that's true. I said for asbestos samples 3 I haven't seen a standard for that. 4 Q. There's not a separate 5 method for asbestos containing PCB 6 samples, are there? 7 A. No, I believe the lab would 8 adopt the PCB sampling method. 9 Q. For the soil. 10 A. That's correct. 11 Q. That's the one that was used 12 utilized to analyze your samples; isn't 13 that true? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. They say stored in glass 16 containers; right? 17 A. That's what EPA specifies 18 for soil, that's correct. 19 Q. Because it is known that 20 plastic can off gas; isn't that right? 21 A. I don't think that's really 22 the issue. If it is, let's assume you 23 are correct, we aren't concerned about 24 plastic off gassing into our asbestos 55 1 temperatures that you are supposed to 2 hold them at; isn't that right? Four 3 degrees Centigrade. Isn't that what this 4 book says that's the temperature? 5 Do you want to look? 6 A. No, that's all right. 7 Q. You believe me? 8 A. I do. Low temperatures are 9 typical for short term storage of 10 samples. 11 Q. They say that are stored in 12 glass and not plastic; right 13 A. That may be true for soil. 14 I don't know if there's a standard for 15 asbestos 16 Q. And the reason 17 THE COURT: Mr. McClain, 18 excuse me, but Mr. Woodyard was 19 not finished with his sentence 20 when you proceeded with another 21 question. 22 BY MR. MC. CLAIN: 23 Q. I apologize, Your Honor 24 Go ahead. Were you done? 57 1 samples on this project. 2 Q. Well, do you know whether or 3 not plastic off gassing can affect and 4 interfere with the peaks and 5 quantification of PCB in samples, 6 Mr. Woodyard? 7 A. No, it shouldn't. 8 Q. Now, it is true, isn't it, 9 that these samples were analyzed after 10 the holding time date; yes? 11 A. Yes, many years later. 12 Q. And you don't know whether 13 they were stored at the proper 14 temperature, do you? 15 A. No, I do not. 16 Q. And they clearly were not 17 stored in glass vials, were they? 18 A. No, they were stored in 19 plastic bags. 20 MR. MCCLAIN: Now, Your 21 Honor, we have been going for a 22 time. I'm at a breaking point. 23 Would this be an appropriate time 24 for a comfort break for the jury, ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060934 58 1 if you want to break before lunch. 2 THE COURT: Fine. We will 3 take a brief recess. 4 MR. EDGE: Jurors, we will 5 take a short recess. 6 (Court recessed). 7 MR. EDGE: You may be 8 seated. This Court is in session. 9 THE COURT: Mr. Woodyard. 10 You may proceed. 11 MR. MC.CLAIN: Thank you, 12 Your Honor. 13 BY MR. MC. CLAIN: 14 Q. Mr. Woodyard, you talked 15 about these PCBs being in a solid, I 16 think is the way that you described them 17 to Mr. Goutman. They were in the 18 adhesive, weren't they? 19 A. Yes, that's correct. 20 Q. And that adhesive was 21 flexible, wasn't it? It was designed to 22 be. 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. It went on as a semi solid 60 1 adhesive of that ductwork? 2 A. I don't know. I haven't 3 done the calculation. 4 Q. It is a lot. A lot of PCB 5 went into the adhesive that went in 16 6 miles of ductwork; isn't that right? 7 A. Yes, that's correct. 8 Q. And let's talk about costs 9 for a moment. You talked about costs. 10 First we talked about that $100,000 11 number you gave, and then it came back as 12 868. Is that the number that you are now 13 using, 868 -- 14 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, 15 Your Honor. That 16 misscharacterizes the testimony. 17 THE COURT: Sustained. 18 MR. MCCLAIN: 868,000, is 19 that the number you are now using? 20 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. 21 Now. He testified earlier as to 22 both numbers and what the numbers 23 meant. 24 MR. MC. CLAIN: Your Honor, 59 1 as most glues are; am I right? 2 A. Right, you apply it as a 3 semi solid and then it hardens. 4 Q. And the role of the PCB, the 5 PCB in this material was to act as a 6 plasticizer, isn't that right, to keep it 7 flexible? 8 A. Yes, that's correct. 9 Q. And so when you talk about 10 it, did you ever sit down and try to 11 calculate just how much PCBs were in the 12 adhesive in that building? 13 A. No, I never did. 14 Q. You gave us some numbers. 15 You said that there were eight grams of 16 adhesive per square foot and the PCBs 17 were 20 percent by weight. Do you 18 remember that? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. So you could do the 21 calculation, couldn't you? 22 A. Yes, I could. 23 Q. Do you disagree with me that 24 there's about a half ton of PCB in the 61 1 now he's testifying. 2 BY MR. MC. CLAIN: 3 Q. You said originally, didn't 4 you, that it cost $100,000 more to abate 5 the PCB from the building when the 6 fireproofing was being abated. That was 7 your testimony, wasn't it? 8 A. Yes, I believe so, and that 9 was to, for that first month or so of 10 extra personnel protection which wasn't 11 necessary. 12 Q. And then the $868,000 number 13 was a number that Mr. Goutman asked you 14 about on Re-Direct. Do you remember 15 that? 16 A. Yes, that's the number taken 17 from the invoices from the contract for 18 the PCB part of the clean-up. 19 Q. That's what I'm curious 20 about. Here, I want to show you Exhibit 21 228 in evidence. 22 MR. GOUTMAN: Can I see it, 23 please? 24 THE COURT: Is that ESQUIRE DE POSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60935 62 1 Commonwealth -- 2 MR. MC. CLAIN: Commonwealth 3 Exhibit 228. 4 THE COURT: For more 5 specificity, it is 2228. 6 MR. MC.CLAIN: I'm sorry, 7 Your Honor. 8 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 9 Q. Has Mr. Goutman gone over 10 with you the actual payments to PDG, the 11 abatement contractor? 12 A. I have, if what you are 13 referring to is the application for 14 payment, like you have shown me here, I 15 have seen those. I have reviewed those. 16 Q. You have reviewed them, and 17 the sheets on the back you have reviewed 18 as well; is that right? 19 A. Yes, that's correct. 20 Q. And there's a key in the 21 back of this that -- we probably ought to 22 show this. 23 Now, if you will turn to the 24 last page -- 64 1 Q. And this is how the 2 contractor, when they abated the building 3 before it was being destroyed, before it 4 was demolished, used to get paid for that 5 work; isn't that right? 6 A. Yes, that's correct, floor 7 by floor, area by area. 8 Q. And you claimed that the 9 number that we paid was $868,000. Is 10 that the number that you gave us? 11 A. Yes, that was -- if I can 12 explain my calculation, the total of all 13 of the PCB decontamination elements in 14 their payment schedule. 15 Q. If you go through here page 16 by page don't you get 1,427,650? 17 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection to 18 counsel testifying. 19 THE COURT: Sustained. 20 MR. MC.CLAIN: I'm asking 21 him. We can go through line by 22 line. 23 THE COURT: I don't know 24 where you got that figure. 63 1 MS. HERSCHEL: Mr. McClain, 2 when you get a chance, we have no 3 record of the document being in 4 the record. I don't have any 5 objection, but are you offering 6 it? 7 MR. MC.CLAIN: We thought 8 it was in, but if it hadn't been, 9 the witness says he reviewed it, 10 we offer 2228. We offer it into 11 evidence. 12 MS. HERSCHEL: No objection. 13 MS. MEYERS: No objection. 14 THE COURT: Admitted. 15 BY MR. MC. CLAIN: 16 Q. There's a key here, 17 Mr. Woodyard, isn't there, on this 18 document? 19 A. Yes, there is. They used a 20 code to describe different types of work 21 activities. 22 Q. And one of those codes is 23 PCB decontamination; right? 24 A. That's correct. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 65 THE COURT: From adding these numbers up, Your Honor. (Indicating). MR. GOUTMAN: Objection to counsel's testifying. THE COURT: There's a number of series of numbers. Many columns here. MR. MC.CLAIN: If you will look, Mr. Woodyard, page by page - THE COURT: Which column are we referring to? MR. MC.CLAIN: We are looking at the first page, Your Honor. Penthouse phase one. Penthouse West, PCB D $5,600. The next one, Penthouse East, PCB D $5,600; the next page, Penthouse West, PCB D 5,600; Penthouse East, 5,600; Penthouse machine, PCB D, 7800, and it goes on every page, Your Honor. In that category of PCB D that we saw from the key ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060936 66 1 there's different numbers given 2 throughout and I'm asking him what 3 the total of all of those numbers 4 are. 9,000 here, 53 5 THE COURT: I think I'm not 6 following along. That's why I'm 7 having difficulty. 8 MR. MC.CLAIN: I'm sorry, 9 Your Honor. Let me show the Court 10 what we have. On every page 11 there's a PCB D, which is the key 12 for PCB decontamination. There's 13 an entry on every page for that 14 amount. If you go through I'm 15 asking him what those total on 16 every page. It is wherever you 17 see that code, PCB D, and I didn't 18 want to highlight the copies that 19 went into evidence. Maybe I 20 should have. That would have been 21 easier for everybody. 22 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 23 Q. But those entries are on 24 every page, Mr. Woodyard? 68 1 all the same. 2 MR. MC CLAIN: Well, I don't 3 know any good way to do this, 4 frankly, Your Honor, in terms of 5 doing this kind of a calculation. 6 BY MR. MC CLAIN: 7 Q. Would you be comfortable, 8 Mr. Woodyard, going through this document 9 and calculating this number for us so we 10 know whether or not we are working with 11 the same numbers or not? Would that be 12 something that you could do if we took a 13 break to do it? 14 A. Yes, certainly I could do 15 it. 16 MR. MC.CLAIN: Your Honor, 17 that might be an appropriate thing 18 to do with this document, to be 19 sure that we are all on the same 20 page with the numbers that he is 21 using. 22 THE COURT: Okay. How many 23 pages are involved? 24 MR. MC.CLAIN: I have got 67 1 A. I assume so. It is a common 2 entry. 3 Q. It is a common entry. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And have you gone through to 6 total those? 7 A. I'm sorry. Have I what 8 O. Have you totalled those? 9 A. Yes, the total from my 10 calculation was 868. 11 Q. Well, we are using the same 12 numbers; is that right? 13 A. I believe so, yes. 14 Q. And whatever the numbers 15 total they total; am I right? 16 A. Yes, the total of the PCB D 17 line items is whatever the contractor 18 claimed as PCB clean-up related expenses. 19 Q. And so if we got out a 20 calculator and calculated them we should 21 be able to get to this $868,000 number 22 from this document; is that right? 23 A. I believe so. I don't know 24 if I used this one, but I think they are 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 69 it highlighted. I can go through and highlight it if it will help. THE COURT: We could take our luncheon break and have it done during the luncheon break. MR. MC.CLAIN: Okay. THE COURT: So we will take a lunch break until 1:30. MR. EDGE: This Court will take a lunch recess until 1:30 p.m. THE COURT: For accuracy, in determining this number, since it is to be pulled off of each individual page, maybe we should have a column of the numbers and then a total so that they could be corresponding to the pages in the exhibit. MR. MC. CLAIN: Yes, that would be fine. I would be happy to do that. THE COURT: We will take our luncheon recess at this time. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60937 70 1 THE COURT CRIER: This court 2 is reconvened. Please be seated. 3 Good afternoon, Your Honor. 4 THE COURT: Good afternoon. 5 MR. McCLAIN: Good 6 afternoon, Your Honor. 7 THE COURT: Good afternoon. 8 MR. McCLAIN: Ladies and 9 gentlemen. May I begin? 10 THE COURT: You may begin. 11 BY MR. McCLAIN: 12 Q. When we broke, Mr. Woodyard, 13 The Court asked us to prepare an exhibit 14 and I did that over lunch regarding the 15 totals for these for the document that I 16 gave you. 17 Mr. Woodyard, I did as The 18 Court asked me to do. Do you see that we 19 have the page number where the item is 20 and then each item number listed and the 21 amount? 22 A. Yes, I see that. 23 Q. From the document. 24 A. Yes. 72 1 MR. GOUTMAN: No objection. 2 THE COURT: Admitted. 3 MR. McCLAIN: The number 4 you've been using, this 868,000, 5 the number from the payment 6 records for PCB decontamination is 7 1,459,050; right? That's correct. 8 THE WITNESS: Yes, it is. 9 BY MR. McCLAIN: 10 Q. And this number, you're 11 aware, was the number that Mr. Hurst 12 based his opinion on? 13 A. Mr. Who? I'm sorry. 14 Q. The appraiser that 15 Mr. Goutman hired; he based his opinion 16 based on this $868,000 number that you 17 had given him previously? 18 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection Your 19 Honor; no foundation as to whether 20 he would know what Mr. Hurst said. 21 MR. McCLAIN: I'm asking 22 him. 23 MR. GOUTMAN: There's no 24 foundation, Your Honor. 71 1 Q. And this was for the 2 category PCB decontamination; am I right? 3 A. Yes, that's correct. 4 Q. From the actual payment 5 records? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. And that number totaled 8 1,459,050; doesn't it? 9 A. Yes, it does. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. I'm assuming this addition 12 is correct. 13 Q. It was done on a computer 14 and we did it twice, so I think it is but 15 if you want to do it manually, I welcome 16 you to it. 17 A. Okay. No. I did it 18 manually with my little solar calculator 19 and came out with 1.4 million. It was 20 close to what you have here. 21 MR. McCLAIN: Your Honor, I 22 offer that exhibit into evidence; 23 that's PEN 2228A. 24 THE COURT: Admitted. 73 1 MR. McCLAIN: Do you know 2 that? 3 THE WITNESS: No, I don't. 4 BY MR. McCLAIN: 5 Q. Do you know whether 6 Mr. Hurst was ever given this 1 million 4 7 number that we took from the actual 8 payment records? 9 A. No, I don't know. 10 Q. But you did have this 11 document before today; didn't you? 12 A. Yes, yes, I have seen them. 13 Q. And there are some other 14 items that are shown on this document; 15 are there not? 16 THE COURT: You used the 17 word "this" document. Are you 18 back looking at Exhibit 2228 19 Commonwealth? 20 MR. McCLAIN: Yes, I am, 21 Your Honor. The big document. 22 THE WITNESS: Oh, the 23 application -- 24 MR. McCLAIN: Yes. The ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60938 74 1 application and the payment 2 records. 3 THE WITNESS: Very good. 4 BY MR. McCLAIN: 5 Q. In this document, also, 6 there are mobilization and 7 decontamination numbers as well; are 8 there general conditions and mobilization 9 numbers that the contractor charged for 10 doing the work? Do you recall that? 11 A. Yes, I believe so. 12 Q. And it's true, isn't it, the 13 way you do these kind of calculations, 14 typically in your business, is you 15 allocate certain parts of the general 16 conditions and the other items to the 17 various items that you're trying to 18 determine what it costs to abate; am I 19 right? 20 A. It's certainly one way to do 21 it, to take costs and apply it to the 22 whole job and somehow spread them over 23 the individual activities. 24 Q. And for mobilization -- 76 1 BY MR. McCLAIN: 2 Q. Mr. Woodyard, have you 3 allocated and we have put up what the 4 amount is that even under this scenario, 5 where they are tearing the building down, 6 they spent on PCB decontamination; am I 7 right? 8 A. The 1.4 million that you 9 have up there represents what the state 10 paid as a line item into the contractor's 11 bill. It doesn't necessarily reflect at 12 all what they needed to do. 13 Q. Well, I understand that. 14 But that's not what this $868,000 number 15 is either; is it? 16 A. No. The 868 came from a PDG 17 document; the contractor's document that 18 I understood was their budget for the 19 project. And I stand by my addition but 20 I was perhaps looking at a different 21 document. 22 Q. It was wrong, wasn't it? 23 The actual number is one million four, 24 isn't it? 75 1 check these numbers out; would you? From 2 the big document. 3 A. Was there a question there? 4 I'm sorry. 5 Q. The mobilization number is 6 $470,000; isn't it? 7 A. Yes, including bonding, 8 insurance, mobilization. 9 Q. And the general conditions 10 number within the payment is how much? 11 A. 284,000. 12 Q. And the demobilization? 13 A. It's hard to read my copy; 14 it's about 76,000, perhaps. 15 Q. 75,000 is what I have. 16 A. Tme, but these costs are 17 all costs that would have been incurred 18 if they were just doing an asbestos 19 abatement. 20 Q. That's what you say. 21 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, 22 Your Honor. Move to strike 23 counsel's comment. 24 THE COURT: Sustained. 77 1 A. Based on the payment 2 schedule you showed, that's correct. 3 Q. So, before we looked at the 4 report and we saw that you relied on 5 Mr. Goutman and put down in your report 6 that Mr. Ewing had taken the samples; 7 that was wrong; right? 8 A. Yes. It was not represented 9 accurately to me. I thought he worked 10 for another engineering firm when I put 11 the report together. 12 Q. Then you told me that that 13 black hook didn't have the word abrupt 14 like the blue one did and that was wrong, 15 too, wasn't it? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. That was wrong, too? 18 A. I'm sorry. This. 19 Q. The 868 that we have been 20 talking about is not the accurate number 21 for what in fact the Commonwealth paid 22 PDG for decontamination of PCBs; is it? 23 A. It's what PDG represented to 24 the Commonwealth it cost. They paid the ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060939 78 1 same amount of money for this project no 2 matter how you allocate the numbers. 3 Q. It's true, isn't it, the 4 payment record show 1 million 4? 5 A. Yes, the total of the 6 payment items that PGD put together is 1 7 million. 8 Q. So, a percentage of the 9 total abatement, asbestos and PCBs needs 10 to be allocated in regard to 11 mobilization, general conditions and 12 demobilization, generally; isn't that 13 true? 14 A. No, that's not correct. As 15 I was just saying, these costs would have 16 been the same from my experience if they 17 were just doing an asbestos abatement 18 job. The incremental costs of adding 19 PCBs into the mix was insignificant, as 20 I've testified before. 21 Q. Well, it's true, isn't it, 22 that the asbestos was contaminated with 23 PCBs; isn't that right? 24 A. Yes, but PCBs did not drive 80 1 A. No, not necessarily. 2 Q. Mr. Kominsky is not an 3 expert in this area; is that your 4 testimony? 5 A. Mr. Kominsky's expertise is 6 not related to cost and executing PCB 7 cleanups in my experience. I have not 8 seen evidence to the contrary. 9 Q. That he is experienced in 10 cleaning up PCBs from buildings? You 11 don't know about that expertise? 12 A. No. My experience with 13 Mr. Kominsky, and what I've seen thus 14 far, related primarily to how to sample 15 and how to understand what the sample 16 results meant relative to the 17 distribution of PCBs. And that was most 18 of his testimony. 19 Q. And so if in fact the 20 driving force of removing the asbestos 21 from the building was to remove the PCBs, 22 you disagree with that? 23 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, 24 Your Honor. 79 1 or should not have driven the State to 2 remove anything. 3 Q. Had you read Mr. Kominsky's 4 testimony to this jury about whether it 5 should have or not? 6 A. I believe so. 7 Q. And you believe that he 8 has -- 9 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, 10 Your Honor. He can't 11 cross-examine this witness with 12 the testimony of another expert; 13 if it's an authoritative treatise 14 or what not but not the testimony 15 of an opposing expert. 16 THE COURT: Sustained. 17 BY MR. McCLAIN: 18 Q. You believe that 19 Mr. Kominsky is an expert in this field; 20 don't you? 21 A. Which field are you 22 referring to? 23 Q. PCB decontamination, and 24 abatement? 81 1 MS. MEYERS: Objection. 2 MR. GOUTMAN: Asks him to 3 assume a conclusion that he 4 doesn't agree with. 5 MR. McCLAIN: The testimony 6 of Commonwealth has been -- 7 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. 8 He's testifying now. 9 THE COURT: Direct your 10 question to the witness. 11 MR. McCLAIN: I will, Your 12 Honor. 13 BY MR. McCLAIN: 14 Q. Mr. Woodyard, do you know 15 whether or not the Commonwealth was 16 trying to remove PCBs by removing the 17 asbestos-containing materials, sir? 18 A. No. It was my understanding 19 that the Commonwealth was planning to 20 abate the asbestos with or without PCBs 21 before they even found out there were 22 PCBs there. 23 Q. And so you have no 24 understanding or do you have any ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060940 82 1 understanding, of the thought process 2 that was gone through by the Commonwealth 3 when the decision was made to evacuate 4 this building and abate it? 5 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, 6 Your Honor. 7 THE COURT: Sustained. 8 BY MR. McCLAIN: 9 Q. Are you aware of NIOSH's 10 opinion that the -- that the 11 asbestos-containing fireproofing could be 12 maintained in place in this building? 13 A. I believe that was their 14 opinion, but as I said, the state had 15 already announced that they were planning 16 to abate the asbestos, anyway. 17 Q. Sir, my question was: Are 18 you aware that NIOSH, in August -- 19 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. He 20 said yes, Your Honor. We don't 21 need the question again. I object 22 to it. He said yes and then he 23 gave an explanation. 24 MR. McCLAIN: Your Honor, 84 1 this. 2 BY MR. McCLAIN: 3 Q. And if you turn over to the 4 page regarding recommendations and 5 conclusions, which is at Page 8, it says 6 "Airborne asbestos does not appear to be 7 a problem in the building and is probably 8 best managed in place with the added 9 precaution of informing maintenance 10 workers and others who may be exposed to 11 the asbestos-containing fireproofing that 12 material also contains PCBs and taking 13 steps to protect these workers from 14 exposure to PCBs." 15 Did you read that, 16 Mr. Woodyard? 17 A. Yes, sir. 18 Q. And so do you know what 19 affect NIOSH's recommendation on the 20 Commonwealth in regards to asbestos had 21 in making their plans to abate the 22 building? 23 A. No. As I said, they had 24 already announced their plans to abate 83 1 I'm being interrupted. 2 MR. GOUTMAN: That's right. 3 It's my obligation to my client to 4 object and I think it's an 5 inappropriate question. 6 THE COURT: Let's take a 7 moment. First of all, we have 8 some competition back here. As 9 you noticed, the pipes are 10 clanging and banging and for 11 whatever reason, which we have no 12 knowledge. It's making it 13 difficult to hear. 14 So, let's start the question 15 again and well see if it passes 16 muster. 17 MR. McCLAIN: Thank you. 18 BY MR. McCLAIN: 19 Q. You're familiar with 20 exhibit, PEN Exhibit 996 -- I can't 21 remember what exhibit Mr. Goutman called 22 this but it was the ACT letter, Your 23 Honor, that we looked at yesterday. 24 THE WITNESS: Yes, I've seen 85 1 the building right after the fire; which 2 they ultimately proceeded to do two and a 3 half years later. 4 Q. Mr. Woodyard, generally, do 5 most building owners in America today 6 maintain asbestos -- 7 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection as 8 to what most building owners would 9 do. 10 THE COURT: Sustained. 11 BY MR. McCLAIN: 12 Q. Do you have experience in 13 managing asbestos, Mr. Woodyard? 14 A. Very little. 15 Q. That's not your area? 16 A. No. To some extent, 17 estimating costs associated with it to 18 some extent. 19 Q. Let's look at another item 20 from this payment record, which is 228, 21 Exhibit 228. 22 There also was an item given 23 for the removal of caulk; wasn't there? 24 A. Yes, I believe that was one ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60941 86 1 of the items. I'm looking for it. I'm 2 sorry. 3 Q. And that number was 1 4 million 6? 5 MS. MEYERS: Objection, Your 6 Honor. May I see you at side bar? 7 THE COURT: If you're 8 talking about Exhibit 228 -- 9 MS. MEYERS: Objection, Your 10 Honor. 11 THE COURT: I'm looking at 12 the key and you mentioned caulk, I 13 don't see the subdivision. 14 MR. McCLAIN: There's a sub 15 total on that, Judge. Ill refer 16 you to the page in just a second. 17 It's on Page 26, Your Honor. 18 THE COURT: It's not in the 19 key then. 20 MR. McCLAIN: No, it's just 21 on the page and it's a sub total; 22 for removal of the caulk. 23 MS. MEYERS: Your Honor, may 24 we see you at side bar, please? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 87 1 THE COURT: Yes. 1 2 --- 2 3 (Whereupon, the following 3 4 was held at side bar conference.) 4 5 ... 5 6 THE COURT: First of all, I 6 7 don't see it. 7 8 MS. MEYERS: It's on Page 27 8 9 and 28. 9 10 THE COURT: I had 26. 10 11 MR. McCLAIN: No. The 11 12 subtotal for caulk is 26 and then 12 13 the -- 13 14 MS. MEYERS: Your Honor, my 14 15 objection is that that subtotal 15 16 applies to a number of different 16 17 items unrelated to the caulk at 17 18 issue in this case. 18 19 If you look at it and break 19 20 it down, and I have my own copy, 20 21 it included the plaza caulk, which 21 22 is the caulk on the plaza floor, 22 23 which is a different product; it 23 24 includes window removal. It 24 88 includes all the -- the number that Mr. McClain wants to put in front of the jury is a lump sum for many of the different items that have nothing to do with the caulk at issue in this case, including the removal of all of the windows in the building; the caulk on the floor plaza and all of the interior caulk in the building, which is not at issue here. And the total that he just announced to the jury, $1.7 million, includes all of these payment items and you can see, I have gone through and highlighted those pages. Only the highlighted items refer to the exterior caulk and are listed floor by floor. And there's a separate line item for the scaffold for exterior caulk and even if you add in a portion of the caulking and 89 sealant supervision, it's still, my total is 914,850. So, the number that he wants to put in front of the jury is about twice the actual cost. And I object to it. It's misleading. MR. McCLAIN: The question that Mr. Goutman asked was what did it cause to abate all of the PCBs in the building. And this is PCB abatement. THE COURT: That may have been his question, but this now - MR. McCLAIN: It's Ms. Meyers' right to come back on redirect. THE COURT: She has a right not to have - MR. McCLAIN: No. I have an absolute right, Judge, at this point since Mr. Goutman has told the jury that it cost $868,000 to abate all of the PCBs from the building - ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60942 90 92 1 THE COURT: You've already 1 attributable to any party in this 2 established a figure well beyond 2 case. 3 that. 3 So, the total number for the 4 MR. McCLAIN: Yes, sir, but 4 abatement of the caulk in this 5 I want to establish the true 5 case is exactly consistent with 6 figures of what it really costs to 6 what Mr. Woodyard said, which was 7 abate PCBs; just to tear the 7 it was almost $1 million. 8 building down and I've got a right 8 THE COURT: Mr. McClain 9 to do that. I'm not trying to 9 points out that the contract was 10 ascribe to Ms. Meyers -- 10 for asbestos, PCBs and hazardous 11 MS. MEYERS: The jury can 11 materials abatement and disposal. 12 hear this, Your Honor. I suggest 12 MR. McCLAIN: That's all 13 we go into chambers. 13 this contract was for and so I'm 14 THE COURT: Well go into 14 not suggesting - 15 chambers. 16 ... 15 THE COURT: I have a problem 16 with that. The problem I have 17 (Whereupon, the following 17 with that is that it says asbestos 18 was held in chambers.) 18 and PCBs and if it ended there, I 19 - - - 19 wouldn't have a problem. But it 20 MS. MEYERS: Your Honor, the 20 goes on to say and hazardous 21 problem here is that this 1.7 21 materials. Now, as I understand 22 million number, there's no 22 it, if there were other hazardous 23 foundation for arguing that it's 23 materials, of which this case is 24 all attributable to PCB abatement. 24 not involving, then the testimony 91 93 1 You will see that on every 1 has to be limited to the asbestos 2 single floor, they have a line 2 and PCBs. And not by inference 3 item for removing all of the 3 but by specificity. 4 interior caulk, for example. 4 MR. McCLAIN: IH ask the 5 There's no evidence that the 5 witness if he knows. 6 interior caulk contained PCBs. It 6 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 7 was never tested. That was 7 there's a further problem, which 8 Michael Bonn's testimony. And the 8 is have they laid a foundation as 9 contract specifications are 9 to whether the products at issue 10 different for interior caulk. We 10 are manufactured by any defendants 11 don't know who manufactured it. 11 in this case; and this court has 12 We don't know what is in it. We 12 already heard argument on that 13 do know they never tested it. 13 subject back in plaintiff's case 14 There's no foundation for any 14 and in fact excluded testimony 15 assumption that that was part of 15 from Mr. Hollowell concerning the 16 PCB abatement. I don't know what 16 very sealant around the windows 17 it was part of. I don't know what 17 and I believe mastic on the floors 18 motivated it. As far as I can 18 because there was no testimony as 19 tell, it's more wasted money. 19 to the manufacturer of that. 20 The window removal, there's 20 In fact, the only caulk that 21 no foundation for that, either, 21 they know the manufacturer of, at 22 and the caulk on the plaza floor, 22 this point, who was then joined as 23 I don't know that there's any 23 a defendant, is the exterior 24 foundation for that but it's not 24 caulk; Ms. Meyers company's caulk ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60943 94 96 1 and there's no objection to their 1 MR. McCLAIN: The evidence 2 getting into that, but as to the 2 of record was the testimony -- 3 others, there's not an appropriate 3 MR. GOUTMAN: Yes. 4 foundation for this trial. 4 MR. McCLAIN: I don't want 5 MS. MEYERS: I have no 5 to go through it. You lost it. 6 objection to Mr. McClain preparing 6 You lost it the first time 7 an exhibit like the one he just 7 through. You had three other 8 used for the PCB decontamination 8 witnesses in your case that have 9 listing or I'll prepare it, 9 said Monsanto was the manufacturer 10 listing the items for the exterior 10 of PCBs in this country; the only 11 wall caulk and itemizing that and 11 one. And we can go back through 12 the total, which by my arithmetic 12 it but I don't want to get into 13 is $914,850. I have no objection 13 this argument at this point. 14 to that. 14 All I'm saying, judge, is 15 But I do have an objection 15 this: I will ask the witness the 16 to saying to the jury the total 16 question. Because the question 17 for caulk and sealant is $1.7 17 was not phrased -- the question 18 million, when that includes a lot 18 wasn't phrased by Mr. Goutman, 19 of unrelated items that -- and 19 what did it cost to abate PCBs as 20 since the jury only knows about 20 manufactured by these defendants. 21 one caulk, they are likely to be 21 He didn't ask that. He asked the 22 misled by that. 22 question what did it cost to abate 23 MR. McCLAIN: The Court 23 all of the PCBs from this building 24 never limited any of our damages. 24 and this witness said $868,000. 95 1 The Court has not done that. 1 2 What you're suggesting, if 2 3 you want to limit the damages to 3 4 what you claim is yours, you have 4 5 a right to do it. 5 6 THE COURT: I'm sorry. I 6 7 thought I heard you say that The 7 8 Court didn't limit it. 8 9 MR. McCLAIN: It didn't. 9 10 THE COURT: I thought we had 10 11 limited the action to the products 11 12 manufactured by Chemrex, 12 13 CertainTeed and Monsanto. 13 14 MR. McCLAIN: You allowed 14 15 all our damage evidence in; and 15 16 you denied the motion for nonsuit 16 17 on those specific grounds. 17 18 So, my understanding is it's 18 19 all in. The evidence has been 19 20 that if it wasn't manufactured by 20 21 these three, Monsanto manufactured 21 22 all the PCBs that we know about. 22 23 MR. GOUTMAN: What evidence? 23 24 What evidence is there of record? 24 97 Having done that, regardless of these other arguments, I have a right to ask him was the caulk abated because of PCBs. Is that your understanding? And if so, then I've got the right to ask him about that number. MS. MEYERS: Your Honor, Mr. Woodyard did not say all the PCB abatement totaled $868,000. He said that was the cost of PCB abatement aside from the caulk and the removal of the caulk cost almost $1 million. He said both of those things. So, to suggest that his testimony was misleading because he didn't include the caulk, he said both of those things as two separate items; the caulk, he said was almost $1 million and the remaining additional cost attributable to PCB abatement was ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60944 98 100 1 $868,000, based on the document, 1 knowing that. 2 the budget that he reviewed and he 2 MR. McCLAIN: We can ask the 3 just agreed that this later 3 witness. 4 document increased that number to 4 THE COURT: If it's relating 5 $1.4 million. 5 to PCBs, then there was generic 6 That was his testimony. But 6 questions that would encompass all 7 there's no foundation for 7 the PCBs. There was no objection 8 including these other items. 8 to Mr. Goutman's question, when 9 First of all, because the 9 speaking of PCBs generically and 10 manufacturers haven't been 10 consequently, we cannot limit the 11 identified and secondly, some of 11 Commonwealth. 12 these products have not been 12 The only thing I'm concerned 13 identified as containing PCBs and 13 about is this business of and 14 indeed all of the interior caulk 14 other hazardous materials. 15 in the building was never tested. 15 MR. McCLAIN: 111 ask him. 16 MR. McCLAIN: If in fact 16 THE COURT: Which is an item 17 you're being accurate, then all 17 separate and distinct from PCBs 18 the more - I don't think you are 18 and asbestos. 19 but I will look at it - but if he 19 MR. McCLAIN: You're right. 20 said that, then he's wrong. It 20 I'll ask him. 21 cost 1 million 6 to remove the 21 MS. MEYERS: The other issue 22 caulk. 22 is all of the interior caulk was 23 If he wants to clarify his 23 never even tested. There's no 24 answer, or make it clearer what 24 evidence -- and I'm sure the 99 1 he's talking about, then he can do 1 2 it or you can do it. But if he 2 3 said it cost $1 million to remove 3 4 the caulk, he's wrong. 4 5 MR. GOUTMAN: We know what 5 6 he said. 6 7 THE COURT: If the caulk did 7 8 not contain PCBs -- 8 9 MR. McCLAIN: Then it 9 10 wouldn't have been removed under 10 11 this contract. 11 12 MS. MEYERS: That's not 12 13 correct. 13 14 THE COURT: I don't know 14 15 that. 15 16 MR. McCLAIN: I will ask 16 17 him. 17 18 THE COURT: No, because it 18 19 says and other hazardous materials 19 20 so I don't know whether there were 20 21 any other hazardous materials in 21 22 the caulk. 22 23 MR. McCLAIN: 111 ask him. 23 24 THE COURT: I have no way of 24 10 1 Commonwealth can't produce any because the testimony was they never tested one piece of interior caulk. THE COURT: The question I limit it to was PCBs. Now, if caulk did not contain PCBs and contained other hazardous materials, that cannot be included. MR. McCLAIN: Right. MR. GOUTMAN: Just so the record is correct and we have the transcript and it's not as Mr. McClain has suggested. I asked him how about the caulk, what did PDG do with the caulk pursuant to the State specifications. "Answer: They chiseled it out of the outside of the building and disposed of it." That's all he talked about, disposal of the outside caulk. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60945 102 104 1 "And was that necessary? 1 inappropriate, in addition to the 2 No. How much did it end up 2 reasons I've already stated 3 costing the state? Almost $1 3 concerning product identification. 4 million." 4 MR. McCLAIN: The general 5 He never talked about the 5 question that The Court asked me 6 interior caulk; never. 6 to ask, I will ask and if there's 7 MR. McCLAIN: 111 ask him. 7 a foundation, 111 follow up. If 8 MR. GOUTMAN: Counsel has 8 there's no foundation, I won't. 9 represented that he was questioned 9 MS. MEYERS: I'm sorry, but 10 on that and in fact he restricted 10 I think the general question was 11 his testimony to the exterior 11 posed before we clarified what 12 caulk. 12 Mr. Woodyard's exact testimony was 13 MR. McCLAIN: No. Miss 13 and now that we've looked at it 14 Meyers talked about that and I 14 and it's clear, that his testimony 15 said that if he so testified, I 15 was limited to the cost of the 16 have a right to ask him -- 16 removal of the exterior wall caulk 17 THE COURT: Wait a minute. 17 and he didn't testify about 18 This may be the testimony of 18 anything else, and there's no 19 Mr. Woodyard. 19 foundation for evidence about any 20 MR. GOUTMAN: Right. All he 20 of these other caulking and 21 testified about was the cost to 21 sealant items, then there's no 22 remove the exterior caulk. 22 basis for asking Mr. Woodyard on 23 THE COURT: By the way, we 23 cross-examination any of those 24 had limited talk to outside caulk 24 questions because his direct 103 10 5 1 in the beginning. 1 testimony and his redirect 2 MS. MEYERS: Yes. 2 testimony didn't address them. 3 MR. GOUTMAN: Yes. Your 3 MR. McCLAIN: Except the 4 Honor ruled that Hollowell could 4 general question still was what 5 not even show photographs of the 5 did it cost to decontaminate the 6 removal of interior caulk, caulk 6 building for PCBs. 7 around the windows; the very 7 And if the interior caulk 8 things that plaintiffs now want to 8 had PCBs, the number that he was 9 get into with this witness. 9 giving is not accurate for that 10 THE COURT: We did not 10 reason as well. 11 permit all caulk to come in. 11 MS. MEYERS: Your Honor- 12 The caulk testimony in this 12 MR. McCLAIN: Oh, I'm going 13 case was caulk, outside caulk 13 to ask him the question, if 14 which contained PCBs? 14 allowed, did that include -- was 15 MR. GOUTMAN: Correct. 15 the -- do you know the caulk was 16 MS. MEYERS: And was 16 removed. Yes, no. 17 manufactured by Courtaulds. That 17 If he says yes, it was 18 was the limitation. 18 removed for PCB-related issues, 19 MR. GOUTMAN: And I think 19 and I'm going to ask him about the 20 permitting counsel now to get into 20 number. 21 interior caulk and so forth and so 21 Then I'm going to ask him 22 on, would be respectfully 22 about the outside caulk, that he 23 inconsistent with those rulings; 23 mentioned. Just so that the 24 and therefore I believe would be 24 record is clear and that should ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60946 10 6 108 1 take care of it. 1 which is the product that brings 2 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 2 Miss Meyers' client into the 3 that doesn't solve the problem, 3 picture. 4 Your Honor, of where this interior 4 And we have other PCBs 5 caulk came from, who manufactured 5 relating to Courtauld and 6 it, what country it was 6 Monsanto. 7 manufactured. There is still no 7 MS. MEYERS: CertainTeed. 8 nexus between any defendant in 8 THE COURT: CertainTeed. 9 this case and that interior caulk; 9 CertainTeed and Monsanto and 10 even if it had PCBs in it. And 10 consequently, the questions can be 11 The Court has received briefs on 11 directed on those scores. I don't 12 this. 12 have a problem with that. 13 This is not a market share 13 But the problem is, I don't 14 liability state, Your Honor, and 14 know if there were PCBs in any 15 therefore that could not support 15 other caulk. We don't have 16 an evidentiary foundation without 16 evidence that there's PCBs in any 17 specific product identification. 17 other caulk. 18 In Pennsylvania, we require 18 MR. McCLAIN: Judge, I was 19 specific product identification; 19 silent because I don't want to 20 tracing a product to a 20 argue about it. I don't believe 21 manufacturer and it hasn't been 21 that Miss Meyers is being 22 done here. There's been no 22 accurate. But I don't want to 23 foundation as to the interior 23 belabor this over such a small 24 caulk, where it came from, and who 24 point. I don't think she's 10 7 10 9 1 manufactured it. 1 accurate about that. 2 MS. MEYERS: Further, Your 2 I will ask the witness 3 Honor, it was a different contract 3 whether he knows whether or not 4 specification and it was never 4 the interior caulk contained PCBs. 5 tested. There's not one shred of 5 If he knows and he says yes, then 6 evidence in the record or anywhere 6 we can proceed. If he says no, 7 else that that material contained 7 then we won't. 8 PCBs. Chances are it didn't. 8 MR. GOUTMAN: He still isn't 9 And as I recall, and I'm not 9 going to know who manufactured the 10 certain of this, but my 10 caulk. 11 recollection of the testimony of 11 MR. McCLAIN: That wasn't 12 the Gannett Fleming people was 12 the question you asked. I'm 13 that they just, or the Pinoni 13 sorry. You didn't ask him about 14 people, I'm not sure who said it, 14 whether he knew about -- 15 but my recollection is that they 15 MR. GOUTMAN: Then it's 16 just decided to take it out, as a 16 irrelevant, Your Honor, because it 17 precaution without testing it. 17 doesn't relate to a product 18 But nobody knows what was in 18 manufactured by a defendant in 19 that interior caulk. They just 19 this litigation. 20 arbitrarily decided to put it in 20 MR. McCLAIN: Then that's 21 their abatement plan. That was 21 the question you should have 22 one of their many mistakes. 22 asked. 23 THE COURT: We have caulk, 23 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor- 24 exterior caulk containing PCBs, 24 THE COURT: I understand all ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60947 110 112 1 the exterior caulk was Miss 1 MR. GOUTMAN: If you look at 2 Meyers. 2 this, it includes window caulk. 3 MS. MEYERS: No, that's not 3 MS. MEYERS: And window 4 correct. The only evidence in the 4 removal. 5 record and the only evidence of 5 MR. McCLAIN: It's PCBs, 6 which I'm aware is that the caulk 6 Mr. Goutman, and you said what did 7 in the joints between the exterior 7 it cost to abate the building of 8 wall panels -- 8 PCBs and then you asked as a 9 THE COURT: I'm not talking 9 separate item about wall caulk but 10 about the plaza. 10 his testimony right now is what it 11 MS. MEYERS: And we're also 11 costs to abate all the PCBs from 12 not talking about window sealants. 12 the buildings 868,000 and then as 13 It's a different product. 13 a separate item the wall caulk; 14 Mr. McClain argued strenuously 14 that was nearly 1 million. I want 15 that the window caulk was supplied 15 to show what the real numbers 16 by Pecora, which was not sued. 16 were. 17 MR. McCLAIN: I ended up 17 MR. GOUTMAN: As Mr. McClain 18 being right. 18 has pointed out, if I can regain 19 MS. MEYERS: And apparently 19 my train of thought, the -- there 20 he was -- well, that's not in the 20 is a separate category for PCB 21 record. That was his argument. 21 decontamination and a separate 22 It's not in the record. 22 category for caulk and sealants 23 MR. McCLAIN: I was right. 23 and what Mr. Woodyard was talking 24 THE COURT: That it was by 24 about was PCB decontamination, a in 113 1 Pecora? 1 separate category in the PDG 2 MR. McCLAIN: Yes. 2 building documents. 3 MS. MEYERS: But they are 3 Now he's getting into a new 4 not in the case. 4 category, caulk. 5 THE COURT: Were they a 5 And Mr. Woodyard 6 former entity of yours? 6 specifically addressed himself 7 MS. MEYERS: No. A 7 solely to the exterior caulk. 8 competitor. 8 That's all he testified about. 9 MR. GOUTMAN: No relation. 9 THE COURT: This issue goes 10 MR. McCLAIN: I'm just 10 to damages. And the fact is 11 digging here, Your Honor, because 11 damages can only be as against the 12 I was -- the windows; not the 12 products of those persons who are 13 exterior. 13 defendants. And consequently, 14 THE COURT: If you were 14 whether McClain's -- whether 15 right, then it would not be 15 Goutman's question was overly 16 admissible. 16 broad doesn't enlarge the scope of 17 MS. MEYERS: I want to 17 the plaintiffs right to recovery 18 correct the record that Courtauld 18 for items that were not 19 did not supply all the caulk in 19 manufactured by these defendants. 20 the exteriors in the building. 20 So, therefore, in the 21 There was a different product in 21 opinion of this court, it has to 22 the windows and plaza floor. I'm 22 be tailored to involve those 23 only talking about the wall 23 products which the defendants in 24 panels. 24 this case may be responsible for. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60948 114 116 1 MR. McCLAIN: Judge, I 1 Q. And that's not including any 2 understand what you're saying, but 2 general conditions, mobilization, et 3 that's not why I'm offering it. 3 cetera; right? None of those allocated 4 I'm not asking for $3 million in 4 costs in that million dollar number? 5 this case. This is not an item of 5 A. Assuming you allocate them, 6 damages as far as I'm concerned. 6 yes. 7 It's a matter of credibility of 7 Q. And just so that the jury is 8 this witness who stood up here and 8 clear, to do that mobilization, general 9 told this jury under oath that it 9 conditions and demobilization, that's 10 was $868,000 to abate this 10 almost - it's $829,000, isn't it, in the 11 building. I've already 11 contract? 12 demonstrated that he's wrong. 12 A. I'm sorry? What did you 13 He's not only wrong on 1.4 million 13 include in that? 14 but he's wrong on more than that. 14 Q. Mobilization, 470, general 15 THE COURT: You've 15 conditions, 284 and demobilization 16 demonstrated several areas where 16 75,000, totals $289,000; doesn't it? 17 there were some inaccuracies. 17 A. Right; money I said would 18 MR. GOUTMAN: Wait for 18 have been spent whether there was PCBs 19 redirect. I'm not done either, 19 there or not. 20 Your Honor. 20 Q. But not the wall caulk; 21 THE COURT: I understand 21 right? The removal of the wall caulk - 22 that. That's not for me to 22 A. Removal of the wall caulk as 23 determine. You're certainly 23 I've testified before was unnecessary; 24 making a strong effort to 24 but they spent almost $1 million doing 115 1 accomplish what you set out to do. 2 I recognize that. 3 Now, but I think we still 4 have to limit it to the products 5 that are involved in this case; 6 otherwise, there will be an area 7 of confusion with respect to 8 damages that the jury may not be 9 able to divorce itself. 10 MR. McCLAIN: All right. I 11 understand your ruling and I'll do 12 that. 13 MS. MEYERS: For the record, 14 Your Honor, the objection was 15 sustained I take it. 16 THE COURT: Yes. The 17 objection was sustained and we'll 18 go on now. 19 BY MR. McCLAIN: 20 Q. Let's limit our -- limiting 21 our discussion to exterior wall caulk, 22 they spent almost $1 million on exterior 23 wall caulk removal; is that right? 24 A. Yes, that was my testimony. 117 1 it. 2 Q. You think the whole thing 3 was unnecessary; don't you? I'm not 4 debating that to you. 5 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection to 6 what the whole thing means. 7 MR. McCLAIN: The PCB 8 decontam -- 9 THE COURT: Sustained. 10 BY MR. McCLAIN: 11 Q. The PCB decontamination you 12 didn't think was necessary? 13 A. Yes, the building was almost 14 cleaned, anyway. 15 Q. I understand that's your 16 opinion. I don't want to debate that. 17 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. 18 Move to strike counsel's 19 statement. 20 THE COURT: Sustained. 21 BY MR. McCLAIN: 22 Q. The reality is they spent $1 23 million and under this contract, 24 mobilization, general conditions and ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60949 118 1 demobilization were part of it; weren't 2 they? 3 A. No. As I said, there is 4 nothing in there about how mobilization 5 and demobilization is spread or not 6 spread among different activities. 7 Q. Right. And then we have -- 8 there was some transportation and 9 disposal; right? Of items? 10 A. Yes, that's correct. 11 Q. And you didn't include those 12 in your number either; did you? 13 A. No, because my earlier 14 testimony was that most of that could be 15 disposed of as nonPCB waste and I did not 16 try to estimate how much that would 17 actually be. 18 Q. But they did dispose of it 19 as PCB waste; didn't they? 20 A. Yes. Wasted money as I 21 said. 22 Q. But that total, when you 23 totaled those numbers to $213,000; 24 doesn't it, in light of what the 120 1 ... 2 THE COURT: I don't know 3 whether it includes it or not. 4 Sustained. If you can clarify it. 5 BY MR. McCLAIN: 6 Q. Mr. Woodyard, you don't know 7 whether the interior caulk had PCBs in it 8 or not; did you? 9 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, 10 Your Honor. This court sustained 11 an objection to that area of 12 inquiry. I don't know where that 13 question is coming from now, quite 14 frankly. 15 BY MR. McCLAIN: 16 Q. Mr. Woodyard, the 17 exterior -- 18 MR. GOUTMAN: There's an 19 objection. 20 THE COURT: Mr. McClain has 21 a right to ask a leading question. 22 BY MR. McCLAIN: 23 Q. You don't know whether the 24 interior caulk had PCBs or not; do you? 119 1 Commonwealth spent? 2 A. I'm sorry. Where is that 3 number? 4 Q. It's transportation and 5 disposal in the contract. 6 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, 7 Your Honor. That includes some of 8 the items to which the objection 9 has already been sustained. 10 MR. McCLAIN: What? 11 MR. GOUTMAN: We could 12 discuss it at side bar, if you 13 like. 14 MR. McCLAIN: Just include 15 the amount for exterior wall 16 caulk. 17 MS. MEYERS: Objection, Your 18 Honor. That item isn't broken 19 down. 20 THE COURT: May I have the 21 question, please. 22 ... 23 (Whereupon, the pertinent 24 portion of the record was read.) 12 1 1 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, 2 Your Honor. It deals with 3 interior caulk and the court 4 sustained an objection to that 5 area. 6 THE COURT: Are we talking 7 about exterior or interior? 8 MR. GOUTMAN: Interior 9 caulk, Your Honor. 10 BY MR. McCLAIN: 11 Q. Mr. Woodyard, all of these 12 items were for TOSKA PCB waste; were they 13 not? 14 A. Not all of them but most of 15 them were TOSKA-related disposal, yes. 16 Q. And for TOSKA related 17 disposal charges, how much were they? 18 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, 19 Your Honor. They are related to 20 matters that the court sustained 21 an objection to. 22 MR. McCLAIN: How do they 23 know that? 24 MS. MEYERS: By looking at a ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060950 122 1 document. 2 MR. McCLAIN: The witness 3 has not professed that that's the 4 case, nor have I asked a single 5 question about it. 6 THE COURT: Sustained. I'll 7 be glad to go back in side bar and 8 explain it. 9 BY MR. McCLAIN: 10 Q. Mr. Woodyard, let me ask you 11 this; with the items that were disposed 12 in TOSKA, PCB containing? 13 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, 14 Your Honor. It's the same 15 question reworded. I object to 16 it. There's no foundation as to 17 specifically what items he's 18 talking about. 19 MR. McCLAIN: Mr. Woodyard, 20 can you answer my question? 21 THE COURT: May I see 22 counsel a moment, please. 23 ... 24 (Whereupon, the following 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 12 3 1 was held at side bar conference.) 1 2 ... 2 3 THE COURT: I believe the 3 4 question is broad enough to 4 5 include items that would not 5 6 otherwise be admissible. That's 6 7 why I sustained the objection; not 7 8 that you don't have a right to 8 9 delve into the area, but not as to 9 10 the area which are not involving 10 11 these defendants. 11 12 MR. McCLAIN: But if the 12 13 injury can't be separable, unlike 13 14 the removal of specific areas of 14 15 caulk, that is the disposal of all 15 16 of the PCB-containing materials 16 17 and they are tort feasors in that 17 18 regard, there's joint liability in 18 19 this state and so they are 19 20 responsible, if at all, for all of 20 21 it or some of it, whichever the 21 22 jury determines. 22 23 So - I'm not done. 23 24 MS. MEYERS: Excuse me. 24 124 MR. McCLAIN: And so, I have a right establishing that the TOSKA is for PCB disposal to ask him the question, because they are responsible, if or any part of it, for all of it. MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, they do in fact break it down. They say the duct board. That was manufactured by defendant in this case. I don't know where he's getting the jointly several here; they break it down. He's asking for a total number, which includes PCBs and other products whose manufacturers have not been identified or joined in this litigation. MR. McCLAIN: Show me an item that you can break out from those items. MS. MEYERS: Your Honor, the number that the jury just heard, which I move to strike is a total 12 5 for all of this disposal, including -- THE COURT: I thought these separate items of caulk were all such that were broken down and as a result they can be separated. MR. McCLAIN: Okay. Well do it that way. MS. MEYERS: Your Honor, he just announced a number to the jury that includes all of this. And I move to strike that number because it includes light fixtures and ballasts; even this is not broken down here for precast caulk. It includes -- THE COURT: Wait a minute; light fixtures and ballast did have PCBs in it. MS. MEYERS: But they are not in the case. MR. GOUTMAN: By a manufacturer that's been dismissed. ESQUIRE DE POSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60951 12 6 128 1 MR. McCLAIN: Mr. Goutman 1 $200,000; and that's the reason 2 talked about it extensively on the 2 that I move that it be stricken. 3 record. 3 THE COURT: Where do PCB 4 MR. GOUTMAN: But it can't 4 liquids come in? 5 be an element of damages in the 5 MR. GOUTMAN: There's been 6 case. The case against the 6 no testimony. 7 manufacturer of the light ballast 7 MS. MEYERS: We don't know. 8 is over. This court granted 8 THE COURT: I don't remember 9 summary judgment. 9 any testimony on that. 10 THE COURT: Wasn't there 10 MS. MEYERS: That was a 11 some light ballasts that 11 totally misleading number. And 12 CertainTeed had? 12 maybe -- 13 MR. GOUTMAN: No. 13 MR. McCLAIN: They were 14 MS. HERSCHEL: No, sir. 14 restoring the light ballast, 15 MR. GOUTMAN: Phillips. 15 removing light ballast in the 16 MS. MEYERS: They are 16 basement. 17 dismissed. The court found that 17 THE COURT: We had testimony 18 that was not a defective product. 18 on that? 19 Your honor, also, there is a 19 MR. McCLAIN: No. 20 charge for freon. 20 MR. GOUTMAN: There wasn't 21 MR. McCLAIN: That's not 21 151,000 gallons of liquid from 22 included in the number that I gave 22 light ballasts. 23 him. 23 MR. McCLAIN: How do you 24 MS. MEYERS: There's a 24 know? From the previous removal 121 129 1 charge for ACM waste, which is 1 projects. 2 asbestos containing and that is 2 THE COURT: The objection is 3 the -- one of the larger numbers. 3 sustained. You may break it down 4 MR. McCLAIN: That's not in 4 but the objection is sustained. 5 the number that I gave him. 5 MS. MEYERS: Thank you, Your 6 MS. MEYERS: That's all 6 Honor. 7 added up. 7 ... 8 MR. GOUTMAN: Excavated 8 (Whereupon, the side bar 9 soil. 9 conference ended.) 10 MS. MEYERS: Yeah, excavated 10 ... 11 soil. 11 BY MR. McCLAIN: 12 MR. GOUTMAN: PCB liquids, 12 Q. Mr. Woodyard, let me ask 13 what are they? Who manufactured 13 you: Each of the items we have up here, 14 those? 14 the exterior caulk, the interior 15 MS. MEYERS: Just to give 15 decontamination, was disposed up in a 16 the court a picture of how 16 TOSKA landfill; am I right? 17 misleading it is, if you look at 17 A. I don't know how they 18 the total amount for the disposal 18 managed each of the individual waste 19 of the duct board and the exterior 19 groups. 20 caulk and precast, as well as 20 Q. Some of it was disposed of 21 gasket material, which is not at 21 in TOSKA; wasn't it? 22 issue in this case, the total is 22 A. I imagine some of it was, 23 $10,000 and the number that he 23 yes. 24 gave, the number was in excess of 24 Q. Do you know what number that ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60952 130 1 is, how much it cost? 2 MR. GOUTMAN: Your Honor, 3 it's the same question that the 4 court just sustained an objection 5 to. 6 MR. McCLAIN: No. I asked 7 for these two numbers that we've 8 just put up, the PCB 9 decontamination and the exterior 10 wall caulk, how much did that cost 11 to dispose of. 12 MR. GOUTMAN: I didn't 13 interpret the question that way. 14 THE COURT: Overruled. 15 BY MR. McCLAIN: 16 Q. Do you know how much it was? 17 A. To dispose of the waste from 18 those activities? 19 O. Yes. 20 A. No, I don't. 21 Q. You didn't include that in 22 your $868,000 number either; did you? 23 A. No, I did not. 24 Q. So, it's some number greater 132 1 about the document generally right 2 now, Your Honor. 3 There's a couple of things 4 from the ACT letter that I want to 5 talk about. First of all, you 6 said that the letter referred the 7 Commonwealth to the EPA; do you 8 remember that testimony yesterday? 9 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do. 10 BY MR. McCLAIN: 11 Q. It's true, isn't it, that in 12 each instance that they discussed it, the 13 recommendation was the NIOSH 14 recommendation? 15 A. I wouldn't say that at all. 16 Q. Do you see -- look over with 17 me, if you will. This is Page 3. Do you 18 see where it says "NIOSH recommends that 19 occupational exposure to carcinogens be 20 reduced to the lowest feasible level." 21 Do you see that? 22 A. Yes, I do. 23 Q. And do you see where it says 24 results of several investigations of PCB 131 1 than two million four; am I right? 2 MR. GOUTMAN: I object. 3 Objection, Your Honor. There's no 4 foundation as to what 2.4 million 5 is or that this witness has agreed 6 to that. 7 THE COURT: Sustained. 8 BY MR. McCLAIN: 9 Q. Was there a number 10 associated with disposal? 11 A. I'm sorry? A number? 12 Q. The TOSKA disposal, 13 Mr. Woodyard? 14 A. Was there a cost associated 15 with it? 16 Q. Yes, sir. 17 A. I assume so. I don't know 18 what that number is. 19 Q. All right. Now, let's look 20 at that ACT letter, if we can. 21 You talked about reference 22 to 23 THE COURT: What page? 24 MR. McCLAIN: I'm talking 133 1 surface contamination in office buildings 2 indicate that a background level of 3 service contamination in the range of 50 4 to 100 micrograms per square meter, 5 therefore, for surfaces in the 6 occupational environment that may be 7 routinely contacted by unprotected skin, 8 NIOSH investigators have recommended that 9 PCB contamination not exceed 100 10 micrograms; the lowest feasible level 11 considering background contamination." 12 Read for me, if you will, 13 anyplace else that they say NIOSH 14 recommends anything else in this 15 document? 16 A. On Page 8, for example, 17 NIOSH states "These results should also 18 be compared with EPA cleanup criteria or 19 what we've called the safe level of ten 20 micrograms per 100 square centimeters for 21 high contact services and 100 micrograms 22 per 100 square centimeters for indoor low 23 contact surfaces." 24 Q. Where does it recommend that ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60953 134 1 level? They recommend exposures be kept 2 to the lowest feasible level; don't they? 3 Isn't that what the document says? 4 A. Of course, but that's what 5 NIOSH has always recommended up until 6 about a month after this letter came out 7 when they changed their policy. 8 Q. Sir, I'm talking about this 9 letter. Let's stay on this letter and 10 then we'll talk about whatever else you 11 want to talk about. 12 In this letter, they 13 recommend their level; don't they? 14 A. The language that you cited 15 states that they recommend occupational 16 exposure be reduced to the lowest 17 feasible level. 18 Their policy is unstated, as 19 we cited earlier; if you looked at the 20 table in the back of the document, it 21 states "it must be emphasized that the 22 recommendation does not represent NIOSH 23 policy. It is merely a guideline used by 24 NIOSH investigators in the conduct of 136 1 because it direct them to consider the 2 EPA standards, which is for NIOSH almost 3 unheard of. 4 Q. Just like you interpreted 5 that Mr. Ewing had taken the samples; 6 right? That was your interpretation, 7 too, wasn't it? 8 A. No; that was information 9 that was provided to me in error, 10 presuming that he worked for a company 11 that he didn't work for at the time. 12 Q. You added a whole lot of 13 facts that no one gave you about how he 14 collected debris, right from your 15 expertise? 16 A. No. The information that I 17 provided about Mr. Ewing was accurate. 18 It's just that I associated him with the 19 wrong samples. There was no problem 20 there. 21 Q. Part of your expertise; 22 right? 23 A. Excuse me? 24 Q. It was part of your 135 1 health hazard evaluations." 2 I've worked on 100 cleanups 3 or more. I have seen a number of NIOSH 4 documents in my experience related to 5 transformer fires, as I testified before. 6 I have never in those documents seen them 7 refer any of my clients or the people who 8 were owners to the EPA cleanup status. 9 This is the first time I've ever seen it. 10 It's obvious to me, the way 11 this is written, that they knew this 12 wasn't a transformer fire in the 13 traditional sense and that it was a PCB 14 cleanup for which they typically don't 15 take the lead. 16 Q. Where does it say that 17 anywhere in the document? It doesn't say 18 that anywhere; does it? 19 A. Excuse me. I'm up here 20 because I have years of experience doing 21 this. I'm interpreting what this letter 22 says to me because I have seen a lot of 23 letters like this in the past. And this 24 one is very different. It's very unusual 137 1 expertise? 2 A. What was part of my 3 expertise? I'm sorry. 4 Q. Your discussion with Ewing, 5 was part of your expert report; wasn't 6 it? 7 A. Yes, it was. And I 8 mentioned before that it was in error. I 9 just connected the wrong person to the 10 samples. It doesn't have any affect on 11 the result. 12 Q. It says nowhere in this 13 letter, does it, that our recommendation 14 only applies to transformer fires; does 15 it? It doesn't say that anywhere in the 16 letter? 17 A. No. This is not a 18 transformer fire that we're talking about 19 at the T and S Building. 20 Q. Right. It's not? 21 A. Right. That's why they 22 cited them to the EPA standard, which 23 they never do. 24 Q. In fact they said the health ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60954 138 1 department needs to decide what standards 2 to apply here; isn't that right? 3 A. That's correct. 4 Q. And the year before the 5 health department had already chosen the 6 NIOSH standard; isn't that true? 7 A. In principal, they had, but 8 as I testified before, they never 9 actually applied it. They continued to 10 use the EPA safe standard as the 11 guideline and announce to the employees 12 that the building was safe. 13 Q. You've come back to that 14 again. Nowhere in the spill policy does 15 it say EPA safe standard; does it? Those 16 words are not used; are they? 17 A. No. They use a number of 18 different terms, but as a practitioner in 19 the business, I use a lot of different 20 terms, including that one, to describe 21 the EPA cleanup standards. 22 Q. Now, if we look at the data, 23 you were talking about the mean 24 information regarding the PCB levels 140 1 that I'm clear on this, those averages 2 are pretty close in your business; am I 3 right? 4 A. Pretty close to what? 5 Q. To each other. 6 A. Yes, they are all similar; 7 but as I pointed out the other day in 8 testimony, they list the maximum for 9 those same floors, the median and the 10 spread is pretty dramatic, compared to 11 the mean. 12 Q. We're going to come back to 13 that. You talked to us about averages 14 yesterday; didn't you? 15 A. I don't recall. 16 Q. On your own chart you didn't 17 talk about averages? 18 A. Oh, yeah, I talked about 19 computing averages with my 28 samples, 20 yes. 21 Q. And then 14,000 on the 22 fourth floor, fifth floor, 18,000, right? 23 A. Yes, sir. 24 Q. And then on the 6th floor we 13 9 1 found throughout the building; table six, 2 for Mr. Ect's letter. 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. In looking at the averages, 5 which you talked about yesterday, the 6 averages from your own chart -- 7 A. Yes. Yes. 8 Q. The levels, the mean, that 9 was the average; right? Isn't that what 10 you told us that's what mean means? 11 A. Yes, that's correct. 12 Q. The average floor to floor 13 for bulk sampling of PCBs 1260s, that's 14 from the fireproofing; right? 15 A. Yes, sir. 16 Q. It's 20, 20, 20,14,18 17 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, 18 Your Honor. It's 20, 24, 26. 19 It's not 20, 20, 20. 20 BY MR. McCLAIN: 21 Q. 20,556, Mr. Woodyard, is the 22 first one, the second is 24,870; right? 23 A. Yes. That's correct. 24 Q. 26,720; right? And just so 141 1 have a much higher level, 69,000; right? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And as Mr. Neal pointed out, 4 the highest level, the maximum level of 5 three million perhaps takes that number a 6 little bit higher than it should be; 7 isn't that true? 8 A. I'm sorry. Takes it higher 9 than it should be? It is what it is. 10 It's contamination on the 6th floor. 11 Q. That one mill--that one, 12 three million number, that one largest 13 number that existed on the 6th floor 14 creates a higher average than if you 15 didn't include that number, am I right? 16 A. Yes, but it's still a real 17 data point so it should be included. 18 Q. And then the 7th floor, 19 28,000; 28th floor, 28,000; the 9th 20 floor, 27,000; the 10th floor, 22,000; 21 the 11th floor, 26,000; the 12th floor, 22 24,000; the 13th floor, 16,000; the 14th 23 floor, 23,000; right? 24 A. Yes, sir. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060955 142 1 Q. And then in -- do you know 2 where the PH was? 3 A. Penthouse. 4 Q. Penthouse, 20,000; PA? 5 A. I don't recall what PA stood 6 for. I'm sorry. 7 Q. It's down here on the 8 bottom, PA means penthouse A. 9 A. Oh, thank you. 10 Q. All right. PH means 11 penthouse. Do you see that? 12 A. Yes, I do. Thank you. 13 Q. And all the way down here, 14 it's 28,000, there are 16,000,14,000 in 15 each of those; right? 16 A. Yes, that's correct. 17 Q. And then if you look over at 18 table seven, which is the results of bulk 19 sampling for total PCBs, you look down 20 the list and you have 22,000, 28,000, 21 29,000,17,000,23,000, 86,000 on the 6th 22 floor; right? Again, 6th floor is nearly 23 four times the amount found on any floor 24 up to that point; right? 144 1 Q. NIOSH got it wrong, too, 2 huh? Is that right? 3 A. No. NIOSH was provided with 4 a blend of all the data without really 5 sorting it into these high and low 6 contact areas, which is an important 7 consideration, when you are setting 8 standards. 9 Q. So they were wrong? Isn't 10 that what you are saying? NIOSH was 11 wrong? 12 A. Wrong about what? I'm 13 sorry? 14 Q. About their analysis here? 15 A. Oh, no. They just had 16 incomplete -- they had a data set here 17 that was not sorted and they in fact 18 cited that in the letter, that if you 19 were to sort this or if you were to look 20 at the data, you need to look at high 21 versus low contact; as well as looking at 22 the case standards. 23 Q. It's true, isn't it, on 24 every floor there were wipe samples that 143 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And then on the 7th floor, 3 36,000; 8th floor, 32,000; 9th floor, 4 31,000; 10th floor, 26,000; 11th floor, 5 29; 12th is 28; the 13th is 18; 14 is 23 6 and et cetera; right? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. All right. Now, I wanted to 9 look over at table nine for a moment; 10 which is the wipe sample numbers. 11 And if you look at the mean, 12 it's true, isn't it, that on every floor 13 you're above the NIOSH level; the mean 14 average of the wipe samples for PCB 1260; 15 right? 16 A. Yes, at its face. 17 Understand, too, these data 18 represent all the wipe samples that were 19 collected, which includes areas that have 20 been cleaned in high contact areas as 21 well as some of the areas that were low 22 contact, troughs and things like that. 23 They, in providing this data to NIOSH, 24 kind of mixed up the numbers. 145 1 were above the NIOSH level? 2 A. Yes, I believe so. 3 Q. Now, you mentioned the EPA 4 spill policy standard. You have talked 5 about NIOSH and then Mr. Goutman 6 mentioned to you Dr. James' risk 7 assessment standard; am I right? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. That he came upwith? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. As far as you know, did 12 Dr. James ever submit that to the EPA and 13 say that's the standard I would like to 14 use in this building? 15 A. No, of course not. He had 16 developed the risk assessment after the 17 building's determination was pretty much 18 set. 19 Q. No one at EPA ever said 20 that's a level that we would allow you to 21 clean to; did they? 22 A. No, but Dr. James used the 23 same procedure that EPA would use to do a 24 risk assessment. I'm sure they would ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60956 14 6 1 have considered that if it were given to 2 them in a timely fashion. 3 Q. There's no evidence that 4 NIOSH ever would have approved that 5 number either; is there? 6 A. Well 7 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. It 8 assumes that NIOSH has that 9 authority. 10 THE COURT: Sustained. 11 BY MR. McCLAIN: 12 Q. Do you know whether it was 13 ever submitted to NIOSH? 14 A. No. The risk assessment 15 would not have been submitted to NIOSH 16 because up to the point at 1995 they 17 didn't consider risk assessment as an 18 option. 19 Q. You've said that they now 20 consider risk assessment; didn't you? 21 A. Yes, I do. 22 Q. Was it said to them after 23 they began considering risk assessment, 24 do you know? 148 1 NIOSH level; won't it? 2 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. 3 Calls for speculation. The 4 building isn't even built yet. 5 MR. McCLAIN: Let me ask you 6 this question. 7 BY MR. McCLAIN: 8 Q. Mr. Woodyard, you can't buy 9 PCB containing building products today; 10 can you? 11 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. 12 Beyond the scope of redirect. 13 THE COURT: Sustained. 14 BY MR. McCLAIN: 15 Q. Mr. Woodyard, can you tell 16 me, if you know, whether when the new 17 Keystone building is built, whether it 18 will have PCB contamination below the 19 NIOSH level or not? 20 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. 21 Calls for speculation. The 22 building isn't built yet. 23 MR. McCLAIN: He's an 24 expert. If he doesn't know, he 14 7 1 A. No, not to my knowledge. 2 Q. Now, in regard to all of 3 these numbers that we have shown, this 4 was after the determination was made to 5 tear the building down; am I right? 6 A. Yes, that's correct. 7 Q. All right. And these are 8 not numbers to renovate and reoccupy the 9 building; are they? 10 A. No. Well, these were 11 predemolition numbers for caulk and PCB 12 decon. 13 Q. But it was to tear the 14 building down, not to reoccupy; right? 15 A. No. If they were going to 16 reoccupy it, the numbers would have been 17 a lot lower. 18 Q. They are not the right 19 numbers; are they? 20 A. No, definitely not. 21 Definitely not. 22 Q. And it's true, isn't it, 23 that in regard to this NIOSH level, the 24 new Keystone building will be below the 149 1 can say that. 2 MR. GOUTMAN: How can he 3 testify to the levels of -- 4 THE COURT: Sustained. 5 BY MR. McCLAIN: 6 Q. Mr. Woodyard, let me ask you 7 this question: It's true, is it not, 8 that when the building was demolished and 9 the site was cleaned, it was below the 10 NIOSH level, the T and S building site? 11 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection. No 12 foundation. I've heard nothing 13 about tests of the site. 14 THE COURT: Sustained. 15 BY MR. McCLAIN: 16 Q. Do you know once the 17 material was hauled away and put in a 18 TOSKA landfill what the level was at that 19 site, Mr. Woodyard? 20 A. No, I don't. 21 MR. McCLAIN: Thank you. No 22 further questions. 23 MR. NEAL: Good afternoon, 24 ladies and gentlemen. Good ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60957 150 1 afternoon, Your Honor, 2 Mr. Woodyard. 3 THE WITNESS: Good 4 afternoon. 5 -----6 EXAMINATION 7 -----8 BY MR. NEAL: 9 Q. Mr. Woodyard, you were asked 10 a question by Mr. McClain about 11 Mr. Kominsky and I think your testimony 12 was that as far as you were concerned, 13 Mr. Kominsky's expertise was in the area 14 of just sampling and interpretation of 15 sampling data? 16 A. I think my answer was that 17 my experience with Mr. Kominsky, and I 18 have worked with him in the past, was 19 that that was primarily where he had 20 worked on projects I was involved in. 21 Q. How many projects did you 22 work on with him? 23 A. Maybe one or two, where we 24 encountered each other and they were 152 1 what he considered Mr.Kominsky's 2 expertise to be. And I have a 3 right to explore that. 4 THE COURT: Overruled. 5 BY MR. NEAL: 6 Q. You were here when His 7 Honor, Judge Mirarchi, qualified 8 Mr. Kominsky as an expert in the area of 9 PCBs, PCB-related issues, investigation 10 evaluation of PCB contamination in 11 buildings, their sources and their modes 12 of transport; isn't that correct? 13 A. Yes, sir. 14 Q. And that just doesn't 15 involve sampling; does it not? It 16 involves something more than just 17 sampling? 18 A. True. It would involve 19 physical chemical properties, things like 20 that. 21 Q. And you were here when 22 Mr. Kominsky talked about the number of 23 articles that he published; is that 24 correct? 151 1 transformer fires. 2 Q. And you heard Mr. Kominsky's 3 testimony because you were present during 4 the time he was on the stand, and the 5 first time when he was being qualified; 6 is that correct? 7 A. I was here for at least a 8 day. I don't recall which day it was. 9 Q. And of course you've read 10 his testimony; correct? 11 A. Yes, sir. 12 Q. And you were there when 13 Mr. Kominsky was qualified by this court, 14 Judge Mirarchi, as an expert in the area 15 of PCBs -- 16 MS. HERSCHEL: Objection, 17 Your Honor. Objection. I 18 don't -- counsel is simply 19 rehearsing testimony that went 20 forward when Mr. Kominsky was 21 here. He's requalifying his 22 witness through this witness. 23 MR. NEAL: Your Honor, 24 Mr. Woodyard made a comment about 153 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And he published some 40 3 articles that were in peer review 4 journals; is that correct? 5 A. I don't recall. 6 Q. Well, you wouldn't disagree 7 with me; would you? 8 A. No. 9 Q. And he published articles, 10 ten of which were on PCBs in peer review 11 journals; is that correct? 12 A. I don't recall the exact 13 number. I know he has published in peer 14 review journals, yes, on PCBs. 15 Q. Have you published in peer 16 review journals on PCBs? 17 A. Perhaps once. 18 Q. Once. Of all the articles 19 that you have, that you've listed, how 20 many were peer review? 21 A. Again, maybe one or two. 22 Q. Now, you were also here when 23 Mr. Kominsky indicated that he had -- he 24 was a master certified hazardous ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60958 154 1 materials manager under the Institute of 2 Hazardous Materials Management under the 3 Academy of Hazardous Material Managers. 4 Are you a certified 5 industrial hazardous manager? 6 A. No, I'm not. 7 Q. And certified industrial 8 hazardous manager deals in the area of 9 the management and control of hazardous 10 wastes; is that not correct? 11 A. Actually, I don't know what 12 that is. 13 Q. But you're not that? 14 A. But I am not one, no. 15 Q. And Mr. Kominsky is a 16 certified industrial hygienist; you're 17 not a certified industrial hygienist; is 18 that correct? 19 A. No, I'm not. 20 Q. And Mr. Kominsky testified 21 that he worked for NIOSH for some 14 22 years. You didn't work for NIOSH; did 23 you? 24 A. No, I did not. 156 1 results might not make sense, compared to 2 good science. 3 Q. And as part of being good, 4 basic science, would you agree that it 5 would involve keeping up on the 6 literature and reference books that come 7 out; is that correct? 8 A. In some cases that may be 9 true, yes. 10 Q. In this instance, when you 11 wrote your report, you testified that you 12 didn't refer to any reference books of 13 any kind; is that correct? 14 A. I don't think that was my 15 testimony, but I think you or someone 16 asked me about whether I had picked up my 17 high school chemistry books or something 18 along those lines and I admitted I had 19 not done that; but I did site, if I may 20 finish -- 21 Q. Go ahead. 22 A. I did indicate that I had 23 looked at some other books. I think I 24 might have even mentioned Mr. Erickson's 155 1 Q. And you heard that 2 Mr. Kominsky was the chief PCB 3 investigator for NIOSH during the period 4 of time from 1979 to 1988; did you not? 5 A. Yes, I did. 6 Q. And Mr. Kominsky has also 7 done research for the Environmental 8 Protection Agency; have you done that? 9 A. Yes, I have. 10 Q. Have you published? 11 A. One time or another, yes. 12 Q. In peer review journals? 13 A. Not that I can recall, no, 14 just EPA reports and documents for the 15 government. 16 Q. Okay. Now, you indicated on 17 several occasions that it's just good 18 basic science; is that correct? When you 19 were talking about various matters on 20 cross-examination or direct examination; 21 correct? You talked about just basic 22 science, good, basic science? 23 A. Yes, in several instances I 24 was trying to point out when data or 157 1 PCB book as a source of data. 2 Q. Well, you indicated, did you 3 not in your testimony, the only purpose 4 you used Mr. Erickson's book was to get 5 evaporation and vapor pressure rates; 6 isn't that correct? 7 A. I don't think I limited it 8 quite that much but I typically would use 9 his book as a starting point for just 10 data. There's a lot of data tables and 11 good references and citations to other 12 works. 13 Q. And you didn't research the 14 literature, did you not, when you sat 15 down and wrote your report? 16 A. In relation to? 17 Q. In relation to PCBs as they 18 are involved in solids or in matrix of 19 glue? 20 A. No, I did not. 21 Q. You didn't do any original 22 sampling of your own; did you? 23 A. No, I did not. 24 Q. You didn't do any testing on ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60959 158 1 your own; isn't that correct? 2 A. Just laboratory analysis; 3 not chamber testing or anything like 4 that. 5 Q. Basically what you did is 6 you took other people's data and you 7 critiqued it; is that correct? 8 A. I took other people's data 9 and tried to understand it. We're 10 talking about everybody's data, including 11 Mr. Ewing's, Mr. Kominsky's and of course 12 all of the State, thousands of samples 13 the State collected. 14 Q. And when it came to 15 analyzing that, you accepted some and you 16 rejected others; is that correct? 17 A. By and large, the only ones 18 that I rejected, if I recall, were the 19 results somehow tied to Mr. Ewing's 20 experiment. In general, I accepted the 21 State's data and the Kominsky data as 22 well. 23 Q. And you indicated, during 24 the course of your examination, that you 160 1 results. 2 Q. Well, you talked about that 3 you sampled all of the - excuse me 4 reviewed all of the air tests. Where 5 were the other 1300 air tests? 6 A. Again, it's been a while 7 since I counted up samples, but these 8 3800 samples are, if I recall, from 1994. 9 Q. But you 10 A. And then there were samples 11 collected in 1995 and '96. 12 Q. But you didn't refer to that 13 in your report; did you? 14 A. I don't know. Perhaps not. 15 Q. The only thing you referred 16 to is 3,787 air samples; correct? 17 A. Well, the purpose of that 18 particular citation in the report was to 19 show that there were almost 4,000 air 20 tests taken and only a handful of them 21 actually had any detectable PCBs above 22 this point five microgram level. 23 Q. And that was 24 A. That was the purpose of 159 1 relied heavily on 5,000 air tests; is 2 that correct? 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. Where did you get the number 5 5,000? 6 A. I don't recall. It's been a 7 long time since I even looked at the 8 actual data. 9 Q. Do you have your report in 10 front of you? 11 A. Yes, I do. 12 Q. Could you look at Page 16? 13 A. I'm there. 14 Q. You have it under the middle 15 paragraph, 3.2? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. You talked about analyzing 18 air sampling; correct? 19 A. Yes, I did. 20 Q. And you talked about 3,787 21 air samples; is that correct? 22 A. Yes. That refers 23 specifically to table three, which is, I 24 believe a summary of the 1994 air test 161 1 making that illustration. Of course the 2 data in '95 and '96 was even better in 3 the sense that it had no detectable 1262 4 above point five. 5 Q. If the data was better, why 6 wasn't it in your report? Wouldn't you 7 want to use the best data? 8 A. I don't know. There are 9 probably a lot of things I could have 10 included in my report that I didn't for 11 one reason or another. 12 Q. Except you said the data was 13 even better for '96 and '97, yet you 14 didn't refer to it at all in your report; 15 did you? 16 A. No, I don't think I did. 17 Q. Now, you also talked about, 18 remember the documents that you received 19 to review I think it was from 20 CertainTeed, as far as to get you up to 21 speed as far as the ductwork and how it 22 was fabricated and things of that sort; 23 is that correct? 24 A. Yes, we talked about that ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060960 162 1 last time. 2 Q. And we talked about the 3 tests and you and I went over the tests, 4 where we were indicating and I was 5 pointing out to you, it says it fails 6 here and it fails there; do you remember 7 that? 8 A. Right, the different 9 performance tests for the duct work. 10 Q. Then when Mr. Goutman asked 11 you, you said well, I just assumed, I 12 just assumed that that wouldn't carry 13 forward during the year that it was used 14 to build the Transportation and Safety 15 Building; is that right? You said I just 16 assumed that they had finally gotten a 17 proper product and it worked? Do you 18 remember that? 19 A. I don't remember my exact 20 language. 21 Q. Do you remember saying I 22 assumed that they corrected the problems? 23 A. What I remember in our 24 discussion was that we were explaining 164 1 if they had any problems with the 2 adhesive that was used in the 3 Transportation and Safety Building? 4 A. No, I did not. I had seen 5 those documents and others, talking about 6 different experiments they had done to 7 improve mixes and change the adhesive. 8 That's the way that sort of business is 9 done in the industry. 10 Q. You had -- what's the latest 11 date you had in there, 1964? 12 A. '64 or '65 was the last one 13 in my expert report, yes. 14 Q. But did you ask CertainTeed, 15 hey, do you have any further test 16 results, beginning in '66, '67, '68 or 17 any time thereafter, where the adhesives 18 had a problem where they dried up? 19 A. No, I didn't. 20 Q. Now, we talked about the 21 prefire samples. We probably talked 22 about it ad nauseam. 23 But the prefire samples that 24 you had were 28 individual samples; 163 1 how industrial experiments work and how 2 it's designed to really improve the 3 quality of the product and move forward 4 and that the result of those kinds of 5 tests are essentially built into the 6 product; they are reflected in changes in 7 the way things are made. 8 Q. And then this morning or 9 this afternoon you testified the reason 10 that, for these tests, and you said, 11 while I assumed that we were talking 12 about a period of time prior to the 13 Transportation and Safety Building, I 14 assumed that that product, the problems 15 they had was worked out. Do you remember 16 that? 17 A. I don't remember my exact 18 language but that was the purpose of 19 really having those experimental results 20 in there was to show that there was 21 experimental work done to improve 22 quality. 23 Q. Did you ask at all whether 24 in fact the problems were worked out or 165 1 correct? 2 A. Yes, that's correct. 3 Q. And 14 of them you really 4 couldn't utilize in the sense of you 5 didn't know when they were taken, you 6 didn't know how they were stored, you 7 didn't know any information at all about 8 the samples that you received; correct? 9 A. That's correct. I just knew 10 that they were from the building, before 11 the fire. 12 Q. And then you then went on 13 the bottom half, maybe we have it here. 14 On the bottom half, and you 15 used the 14 samples right here and you 16 compared them to Mr. Kominsky's outer 17 samples; correct? 18 A. Yeah, that's -- well, that's 19 the way I constructed the table. I 20 didn't do much with it but that was 21 originally what I was hoping to do. 22 Q. And for instance, on the 23 11th floor, you have a prefire sample. 24 You don't know where that sample was ESQUIRE DE POSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60961 166 1 taken in relationship to where 2 Mr. Kominsky's sample was taken; is that 3 correct? 4 A. No, I didn't make any 5 attempt to compare them. 6 Q. And we're talking about 7 floors, I think you testified before, 8 55,000 square feet, 60,000 square feet? 9 A. That's my understanding; 10 typically. 11 Q. And you don't know whether 12 this was taken on the west side or the 13 east side or north comer on or the south 14 comer; do you? 15 A. I'm not sure. I don't 16 recall what the labels had on them. 17 Let's assume you're correct. I don't 18 know exactly where it was taken. 19 Q. And would it have been nice 20 for your purposes to be able to maybe get 21 it to see if it was in the same area 22 where Mr. Kominsky took his samples? 23 A. Well, I don't know what you 24 mean by nice. I mean it's - 168 1 agreed, did you not, that that probably 2 is what you want, so that it represents 3 the whole, so that what you take on a 4 floor would be representative of that 5 floor; correct? 6 A. I think in the context of -- 7 no, not necessarily. In the context we 8 were talking about, with Mr. Kominsky's 9 data, it had to do with dividing the 10 floor into quadrants and taking samples 11 from different quadrants and so forth 12 which I think is a good idea; call it 13 representative, call it grid sampling, 14 whatever. 15 Q. Do you think it would be 16 fair and representative, if this were the 17 floor, right here, of the Transportation 18 and Safety Building and we took a small 19 little sample from the very, very comer, 20 took one sample and then on the basis of 21 that sample made a determination as to 22 what it represented for the entire floor. 23 Do you think that would be fair? 24 A. No. No, of course not. In 167 1 Q. To see if it's 2 representative. 3 A. Well, statistically, the 4 term representative doesn't mean 5 anything. That introduces your own 6 judgment. 7 What we're talking about 8 here is a sample taken somewhere compared 9 to a couple other samples taken somewhere 10 else and as you can see from that table, 11 on every floor except five and six, the 12 results are significantly lower before 13 the fire than after the fire, which I 14 think is important. 15 Q. When you and I talked 16 yesterday, I think it was yesterday, we 17 talked about one of the purposes and the 18 thing you want to have is a 19 representative sample; is that correct? 20 A. Well, again, that was your 21 term. 22 Q. Well, we also looked at 23 Mr. Erickson's book where it talked about 24 getting a representative sample and you 169 1 fact, I testified before Mr. Kominsky's 2 one sample over 50 resulted in him saying 3 that all the fireproofing in the whole 4 building had to go to a TOSKA landfill. 5 That's exactly what you're talking about 6 and I think that's not the appropriate 7 conclusion. 8 Q. Let's be fair about that. 9 Mr. Kominsky's testimony, was it not, is 10 that based on the State's data, that -- 11 all of that material had to be taken to a 12 TOSKA landfill; not based on his data but 13 on the State's data? 14 A. I don't recall his 15 testimony. I was thinking back to his 16 report, which I thought was very 17 specific, as to the results. 18 Q. In a moment after I finish, 19 Your Honor, may I ask for one moment so 20 that I could obtain that. 21 THE COURT: You may. 22 BY MR. NEAL: 23 Q. In any event, do you have 24 one sample that was taken, you don't know ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60962 170 1 how it was taken, you don't know where it 2 was kept you don't know how and on the 3 basis of that, you added it up and then 4 compared averages to averages; is that 5 correct? 6 A. Yes, that's correct. 7 Although I don't have quite the problem 8 you do with whether the samples are 9 collected off in the comer or are 10 represented -- 11 Q. No, you don't. And when is 12 the last time you did sampling? 13 A. A long time ago. 14 Q. A long time ago. And so you 15 don't see any problem in taking one 16 little tiny sample off in a comer and 17 then saying that will represent, when I 18 get those results, that will represent 19 everything on this floor? 20 A. No. The reason I created a 21 table like that and computed the averages 22 was to show averages, which is what we do 23 to compare different levels. And that's 24 what we've done. 172 1 call it, it was in the adhesive; is that 2 correct? 3 MS. HERSCHEL: Objection, 4 Your Honor. It's misleading. 5 There were two separate adhesives. 6 MR. NEAL: He's explained 7 that, I thought, Your Honor. 8 THE WITNESS: I've answered 9 the question. 10 BY MR. NEAL: 11 Q. The only known source was 12 the adhesive in the ductwork, whether it 13 be round or rectangular; correct? 14 A. Yes, albeit different 15 adhesives. 16 Q. Still Aroclor 1262? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And then you stated that 19 there was some background in the prefire, 20 or what you determined to be the prefire 21 results were background levels; correct? 22 A. Yes, that's correct. 23 Q. Levels that we see every day 24 in various areas that could be existing 171 1 Q. Isn't it your testimony the 2 reason you compared averages to averages 3 because you didn't have enough samples to 4 compare to Mr. Kominsky's? That you had 5 to use average? 6 A. No. My testimony was that 7 averages were a good way to compare it. 8 You're acting as though by not having 9 enough data, I can't do anything with the 10 data and that's incorrect. 11 Q. Now, prefire samples, all 12 determined to be Aroclor 1262; correct? 13 A. Yes, that's correct. 14 Q. And I think as you testified 15 before, the only known source, and you 16 testified again today, as the only known 17 source of Aroclor 1262 in the 18 Transportation and Safety Building was 19 the adhesive in the duct work; is that 20 correct? 21 A. In the duct board and, of 22 course, in the duct wrap on the metal 23 duct. 24 Q. Whatever way you want to 173 1 every day in various areas; is that 2 correct? 3 A. Yes, as supported in 4 Harrisburg by the data collected in 5 Harrisburg. 6 Q. And the only Aroclor you 7 found was 1262; no other Aroclor; 8 correct? 9 A. In the Transportation and 10 Safety Building, prefire samples, that's 11 correct. 12 Q. That was background level in 13 the Harrisburg area? 14 A. Yes; total PCB, that's 15 correct. 16 Q. And the Aroclor that you 17 found in the South Office Building and 18 the Milton Hershey School was not Aroclor 19 1260; was it? 20 A. I don't recall which Aroclor 21 it was. 22 Q. You testified, did you not, 23 that it as Aroclor 1260? 24 A. I don't recall that ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60963 174 1 testimony. 2 Q. Well, let's assume that I'm 3 correct and I can show you the testimony. 4 It was Aroclor 1260. It was a different 5 Aroclor than 1260? 6 A. Not necessarily. It was 7 analyzed at a time period when 8 Mr. Cocciardi was finding everything was 9 1260 and later representing or at least 10 other people represented those analyses 11 should have been 1262. 12 Q. But you don't know that, do 13 you, because you don't know the 14 circumstances under which that sampling 15 was done; do you? 16 A. No, but they were analyzed 17 by the same laboratory. It's quite 18 reasonable to assume that they are 1262 19 because they were having the same problem 20 that I am. 21 Q. Mr. Woodyard, I don't want 22 to know what you can assume. I want to 23 know if you know for an actual fact 24 whether it was Aroclor 1260 or not in the 176 1 the Transportation and Safety Building 2 but it wasn't hovering around the Milton 3 Hershey School or the South Office 4 Building, that a different Aroclor was 5 hovering around there? 6 A. You're using the term 7 hovering as that's what background is all 8 about. I don't know how the PCBs got 9 into the fireproofing before the fire. 10 That's why we're calling it background. 11 It could have easily been the same PCB in 12 all three buildings. 13 MR. NEAL: Your Honor, may I 14 have a moment? 15 THE COURT: Yes. 16 MR. NEAL: If I could have 17 about one minute? 18 THE COURT: How many minutes 19 do you need? 20 MR. NEAL: I need two 21 minutes. 22 THE COURT: Let's take a 23 brief recess. 24 - - - 17 5 1 Milton Hershey School and the South 2 Office Building? 3 A. No, I don't, nor do I know 4 at the time that it was actually 1262 in 5 the T and S Building. 6 Q. But you have to assume, do 7 you not, that the Aroclor that they 8 found, because you have no other 9 information, was Aroclor 1260; that's 10 what they found? 11 A. Well, at the time they found 12 it in the T and S Building as well. 13 Q. They found -- you found 14 1262; did you not? 15 A. Four years later, true. 16 Q. Did you ever do a background 17 study of Harrisburg, as far as levels of 18 PCB and kinds of PCB in the Harrisburg 19 area? 20 A. No, I did not. I was 21 satisfied with the results from the 22 State's own background study. 23 Q. Is it your testimony that 24 the Aroclor 1262 was just hovering around 17 7 1 (Whereupon, there was a 2 brief recess.) 3 ... 4 THE COURT: Mr. Neal? 5 MR. NEAL: No further 6 questions, Your Honor. 7 MR. GOUTMAN: May I proceed, 8 Your Honor? 9 THE COURT: You may proceed. 10 MR. GOUTMAN: Good 11 afternoon. 12 ... 13 EXAMINATION 14 ... 15 BY MR. GOUTMAN: 16 Q. You testified, and I believe 17 it's in your report about this $868,000 18 number; is that correct? 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. Where did that $868,000 21 number come from? 22 A. It was the sum of the PCB 23 decontamination billing items from a PDG 24 document. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60964 178 1 Q. A different document than 2 what you were shown today? 3 A. I believe so. 4 Q. Sir, whether it's 868,000 or 5 1,459,000, you indicated on 6 cross-examination that if they were to do 7 the cleanup for reoccupancy, as opposed 8 to blowing the building up, it would have 9 cost less; did you not? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Can you explain to the jury 12 why? 13 A. Well, as I testified before, 14 removing the caulk would have been 15 unnecessary, in my view, under any 16 circumstances, out of the 1.4 million for 17 cleanup, a lot of that money went into 18 cleaning floor troughs and grinding up 19 floor tile mastic and things that would 20 not have been required if the building 21 was occupied and not required for 22 demolition. 23 Q. Could you estimate how much 24 less expensive it would have been just to 180 1 that he walked through the building and 2 every square inch was covered with soot 3 throughout the building absolutely. Do 4 you recall that testimony? 5 A. Yes, I do. 6 MR. McCLAIN: I object to 7 that. I'd like you to read the 8 last question and answer exactly 9 the way it was asked. 10 BY MR. GOUTMAN: 11 Q. "What did you see with 12 respect to damage on the building on that 13 tour? 14 "Answer: Just a lot of 15 smoke and soot. Every square inch that 16 you could see or touch was covered with 17 soot and of course the odor was terrible. 18 "Question: Was that pretty 19 much throughout the building? 20 "Answer: Absolutely." 21 Now, sir, in relying upon 22 Mr. Mancuso's testimony, did you have any 23 reason to believe that a division chief 24 for DGS would mistake soot for dust? 179 1 clean up the building, whether it's 1.4 2 million or 868,000, for reoccupancy? 3 A. I think in my report I 4 estimated that about five percent of the 5 building actually needed to be recleaned 6 to meet the EPA safe standard, which is 7 what they cleaned up for predemolition, 8 and using that and applying that against 9 some of the numbers that were in my 10 report for total cleanup, it would have 11 been I think about four or 500,000, 12 total. 13 Q. You were questioned about 14 smoke and soot. Do you remember that? 15 And Mr. McClain cleaned the TV screen. 16 Do you recall that? 17 A. Yes, I do. 18 Q. And you mentioned, I 19 believe, during your testimony, the 20 testimony of division chief engineering 21 design DGS Joseph Mancuso. Do you recall 22 that? 23 A. Yes, sir. 24 Q. And Mr. Mancuso testified 18 1 1 A. No, I do not. 2 Q. Sir, do you know how much 3 DGS spent to clean up smoke and soot 4 after the fire? 5 A. Yes. They spent about $1.2 6 million on fire cleanup contractors. 7 Q. Sir, did DGS spend $1.2 8 million for some light dusting? 9 MR. McCLAIN: Objection, Your 10 Honor, unless he knows what was 11 entailed. 12 BY MR. GOUTMAN: 13 Q. Do you know what it entails? 14 A. Yes, I do. It involved a 15 variety of different cleaning techniques 16 that are specific. 17 Q. Did they spend $1.2 million 18 for some light dusting? 19 A. No. They were going after 20 soot. 21 Q. You were questioned, sir, 22 about these prefire asbestos samples; do 23 you recall that? 24 A. Yes, sir. ESQUIRE DE POSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60965 182 1 Q. And, sir, these were 2 provided by Mr. McClain's office to me 3 and then sent to your laboratory when? 4 A. I believe it was in January 5 of '99. Is that right? 6 Q. And before January of 1999, 7 between 1992 and 1999, whose 8 responsibility would it have been to 9 maintain and properly store those 10 samples? 11 MR. McCLAIN: Objection, 12 Your Honor. Calls for 13 speculation. Calls for a legal 14 conclusion. How would he know? 15 MR. GOUTMAN: They were 16 asked questions concerning storing 17 of samples and I want to know 18 whose responsibility that would 19 have been. 20 THE COURT: If he knows. 21 BY MR. GOUTMAN: 22 Q. If you know, sir. 23 A. Whoever was holding the 24 samples at the time. 184 1 A. All the time. 2 Q. And what do you tell people? 3 A. When it comes to - well, 4 really in any situation, when they talk 5 about spill cleanup or standards, you 6 know, the answer is obey the law. If you 7 need help understanding the law, I can 8 help you with that. 9 Q. Do you ever give them advice 10 about cleanup? 11 A. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. 12 Compliance issues for people who are 13 still using PCBs, as well as cleanup for 14 those who want to do a cleanup. 15 Q. How many years have you been 16 overseeing and directing PCB cleanups? 17 A. About 20 years. 18 Q. And how many states? 19 A. Most of them. 20 Q. How many foreign countries? 21 A. Three or four. 22 Q. Sir, when you -- when people 23 ask you what should I clean the PCBs up 24 to, what do you tell them? When they ask 183 1 MR. McCLAIN: I ask that 2 that answer be stricken. He 3 doesn't even know who was holding 4 the samples at the time. 5 MR. GOUTMAN: The answer is 6 substantive. Whoever was holding 7 the samples, Your Honor. 8 MR. McCLAIN: Who was? I 9 don't have any idea as I sit here. 10 THE COURT: We've had enough 11 testimony from counsel. Well go 12 back to the witness. 13 MR. GOUTMAN: I think 14 counsel does know. 15 MR. McCLAIN: I will 16 withdraw it. Well just move on. 17 BY MR. GOUTMAN: 18 Q. You were asked about being 19 called upon to give advice about PCBs and 20 what do you tell them; do you recall 21 that? 22 A. Yes, I do. 23 Q. And are you called upon to 24 give advice on PCBs? 18 5 1 you what the cleanup level should be, 2 what do you tell them? 3 A. I refer them to either the 4 EPA cleanup standards or to risk 5 assessments; if there is something about 6 their situation that deserves that kind 7 of attention. 8 Q. Now, sir, what if the risk 9 assessment gives you a number that is 10 higher than the EPA level? Well, the EPA 11 level is ten micrograms for high contact 12 surface? Is that correct? 13 A. Yes. That's correct. 14 Q. What if the risk assessment 15 gives you a number that's higher, such as 16 in this case, 19.8? What advice do you 17 give? 18 A. I leave that up to the 19 clients to decides which one to use. 20 They are both safe because they are both 21 based on risk. 22 Q. You were asked about whether 23 Dr. James' risk assessment was ever 24 supplied to the EPA. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60966 18 6 1 Before -- after the fire but 2 before they sent the people back in the 3 building, did the State do a risk 4 assessment? 5 A. No, they did not. 6 Q. For two and a half years 7 when people were in that building, did 8 the state do a risk assessment? 9 A. No, never. 10 Q. Before they decided to put 11 TNT in this building and blow it up, did 12 the State do a risk assessment? 13 A. No, they did not. 14 Q. You were asked questions 15 about whether there were levels of PCBs 16 higher than the NIOSH level on the floors 17 of the building; do you recall that? 18 A. Yes, I do. 19 Q. What, if anything, did the 20 state say about levels of PCBs in that 21 building that were higher than NIOSH but 22 below the EPA safe standard? 23 A. They told the employees in 24 the building that the building was safe 188 1 tell people to compare their levels with 2 the EPA standard? 3 A. No. I had never seen that 4 before this particular case. 5 Q. And what significance do you 6 attach to the fact that the NIOSH was 7 telling the State to compare their levels 8 with the EPA safe standard? 9 A. It's significant because 10 they are acknowledging the relevance or 11 how these standards might apply to this 12 building, based on their review of the 13 data. 14 Q. Now, you were asked 15 questions concerning the mix of data that 16 NIOSH had in its table; some was high 17 contact and some was low contact. 18 Did NIOSH specifically 19 comment on the mix of data that was 20 supplied to them by DGS? 21 A. Yes, they did. They pointed 22 out that it was both high and low contact 23 data mixed and that it should be looked 24 at separately. 18 7 1 to occupy. 2 Q. Do you agree with the state? 3 Was it safe to occupy? 4 A. Yes, absolutely. 5 Q. You were asked some 6 questions about the NIOSH letter; and 7 whether NIOSH -- are we looking at the 8 NIOSH letter to DGS of August 20,1995? 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. And could you read the last 11 sentence of that paragraph for us? 12 A. "These results should also 13 be compared with EPA cleanup criteria of 14 1,000 micrograms per square meter for 15 outdoor contact surfaces and 10,000 16 microgram per square meter for indoor low 17 contact surfaces." 18 Q. Have you dealt withNIOSH 19 over the years? 20 A. Yes, I have. 21 Q. Many times? 22 A. A number of times; all on 23 PCB transformer fires. 24 Q. Have you ever known NIOSH to 18 9 1 Q. And could you read the 2 highlighted sentence preceding the one 3 that I asked you to read? 4 A. "The results for furniture 5 and office items should be separated" 6 Q. Start with next one, 7 "however." 8 A. "However the SLPCBW data set 9 includes surfaces such as floors, 10 ceilings, air filters, floor troughs and 11 computer sub floors. The results for 12 furniture and office items should be 13 separated from these others for a more 14 detailed analysis." 15 Q. NIOSH is recommending that 16 they separate them out? 17 A. Yes, which would only make 18 sense if you were going to have two 19 separate cleanup standards, which is what 20 the EPA safe standards are all about. 21 Q. Now, sir, you were also 22 asked, if you turn to table six, this 23 morning, you were asked wasn't it true 24 that the averages for PCBs in the ESQUIRE DE POSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60967 190 1 asbestos on the various floors were the 2 same. 3 Sir, the averages on table 4 six, which is for Aroclor 1260 range from 5 six parts per million to 36 parts per 6 million; do they not or excuse me, six 7 parts per million to 28 parts per 8 million, do they not? 9 A. Which table? 10 Q. Table six, excuse me, on 11 nonfire floors. 12 MR. McCLAIN: What's the 13 question now? 14 BY MR. GOUTMAN: 15 Q. The range of averages on 16 table six are from six parts per million 17 to 28 parts per million on the nonfire 18 floor? 19 A. Well, to be fair, the 20 results, the averages are about 14 to 21 about 28 level, if I read it correctly, 22 is from data from another location. 23 Q. Okay. 24 A. But it's a pretty good 192 1 result you would expect from smoke. 2 Q. Why don't we turn to table 3 seven. 4 Again, the average ranges 5 for the nonfire floors are from what? 14 6 to -- 15 to 36 parts per million? 7 A. It depends on your 8 definition of fire floors. 9 Q. I meant other than the sixth 10 floor? 11 A. Right. 36 to as low as 15. 12 Q. 15 to 36, is that the same 13 number? 14 A. No, it's not. 15 Q. This is, by the way, for 16 total PCBs; right? 17 A. Yes, that's correct. 18 Q. And the ranges, are they the 19 same number? An even distribution? 20 A. No, certainly not based on 21 the maximums that we see here. 22 Q. Is this data consistent or 23 inconsistent with the fire spreading PCBs 24 in that building? 191 1 spread. 2 Q. Is 14 the same as 28? 3 A. No, it's not. Of course 4 not. 5 Q. Is this consistent or 6 inconsistent with a chaotic spread of 7 smoke and soot as a result of a fire? 8 A. Certainly and it's 9 inconsistent with a nice, even 10 distribution of off-gassed PCB, which is 11 the State's theory, that it doesn't make 12 sense based on this data. 13 Q. How about the ranges, where 14 it says maximum? Is there a broad range 15 of maximums? 16 A. Oh, absolutely and I talked 17 about that the other day. Some of these 18 maximums are extremely high. The median 19 is the middle data point, so that means 20 that half the data is below that level. 21 So, you could do the math yourself. The 22 numbers are -- can be extremely low in 23 some of these ranges and extremely high. 24 So, that's the kind of 193 1 A. It's consistent. 2 Q. The prefire asbestos, did it 3 have more or less PCBs than the asbestos 4 sampled after the fire? 5 A. The prefire asbestos was 6 about five times lower in PCB than the 7 asbestos sampled afterwards. 8 Q. What does that tell you? 9 A. That most of the PCBs were 10 deposited by the fire. 11 Q. You were asked some 12 questions about the duct board in the 13 Transportation and Safety Building; and 14 its condition. 15 Are you aware of any 16 evidence in this case presented by anyone 17 that CertainTeed ever had a problem with 18 the glue in their duct board drying up 19 and the duct board deteriorating? 20 A. No. There is no evidence. 21 Q. Is there any evidence that 22 you're aware of, sir, that the duct board 23 in this building, excuse me, that the 24 glue in the duct board in this building, ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60968 194 1 dried up because PCBs were jumping out of 2 them and that the duct board collapsed? 3 A. No, there's no such 4 evidence. 5 Q. What conclusions did you 6 reach, sir, based upon your analysis of 7 thousands and thousands of tests, as well 8 as your own inspection of the building, 9 of the source of PCBs found in the 10 surfaces and in the air of the 11 Transportation and Safety Building? 12 A. My simple conclusion was 13 that most of the PCBs found in that 14 building on surfaces and everywhere, were 15 the result of the fire; the burning of 16 duct board and light fixtures. 17 Q. And what is your conclusion, 18 sir, as to whether that fire-related 19 contamination could have been cleaned up? 20 A. It absolutely could have 21 been cleaned up. I've worked on much, 22 much worse projects where the cleanup 23 went quickly and the work was done and 24 the building reoccupied. 196 1 the ventilation system were on, PCBs were 2 flying out of the ductwork, you'd be 3 seeing PCBs accumulating in the building. 4 And it just wasn't happening, based on 5 all the data that was being collected. 6 Q. Sir, you were asked 7 questions about and gave responses 8 concerning the State's plans to remove 9 the asbestos even before they found PCBs? 10 A. Yes, sir. 11 Q. And are you aware of their 12 plans to put in sprinklers in the 13 building? 14 A. That was my understanding, 15 yes. 16 Q. Sir, are you aware, sir, of 17 the State's position taken, even before 18 the fire, that to put in sprinklers, they 19 had to take out the asbestos? 20 A. Yes, I'm aware of that. 21 MR. GOUTMAN: Thank you. No 22 further questions. 23 MS. MEYERS: Your Honor, I 24 have a few brief questions. 195 1 Q. Lastly, you were asked 2 questions -- do you have a copy of your 3 report? 4 A. Yes, I do. 5 Q. You were asked questions by 6 Mr. Neal about whether you referred to 7 data after 1994. I want to direct your 8 attention to Page 16. 9 The sentence before 3.2. 10 Do you see that? 11 A. Yes, I do. 12 Q. Do you refer to data that 13 post dates 1994 in that? 14 A. Yes, I do. 15 Q. And what point are you 16 making there? Do you see the sentence? 17 A. Yes, Ido. And I just have 18 to read it to answer your question. 19 Q. I know you've been on the 20 witness stand a while. 21 A. The point here is that PCB 22 levels in the building were not 23 increasing. We've talked about that 24 before. If the building were reoccupied, 197 1 THE COURT: Ms. Meyers? 2 MR. McCLAIN: How does she 3 have a right to follow up now? I 4 don't think she -- 5 THE COURT: The court 6 believes she has a right to follow 7 up. 8 MR. McCLAIN: Okay. 9 MS. MEYERS: Thank you, Your 10 Honor. 11 ------12 EXAMINATION 13 -----14 BY MS. MEYERS: 15 Q. Good afternoon, 16 Mr. Woodyard. 17 A. Good afternoon. 18 Q. I just wanted to clarify one 19 brief point. Mr. McClain asked you about 20 your earlier testimony that the state 21 wasted almost $1 million by removing the 22 exterior wall caulk. 23 And he asked you if you 24 included in your estimate the cost of ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060969 198 1 transportation and disposal of that 2 material and you said you had not. 3 I'd like you to look at Page 4 32 of the Plaintiffs Exhibit 2228, 5 please. That is the contractor's request 6 for payment. 7 A. Which page number? I'm 8 sorry. 9 Q. Page 32. 10 A. Okay. 11 Q. And that's a listing of 12 transportation and disposal costs for 13 various materials; correct? 14 A. Yes, it is. 15 Q. Would you look at just about 16 at the middle of the page, item TD 0008? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And that shows the cost of 19 transportation and disposal for caulk and 20 some other items lumped together; 21 correct? 22 A. Yes, that's correct. 23 Q. And would you tell the jury 24 how much that total cost is for the 200 1 further questions, Your Honor. 2 THE COURT: Mr. McClain? 3 MR. McCLAIN: Thank you, 4 Your Honor. 5 --6 EXAMINATION 7 --8 BY MR. McCLAIN: 9 Q. Now that we're into other 10 items, how much does it cost to dispose 11 of all the other items then? 12 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, 13 Your Honor. 14 MR. McCLAIN: She opened it 15 up. 16 THE COURT: Overruled. 17 MS. MEYERS: Your Honor 18 THE COURT: Overruled. 19 BY MR. McCLAIN: 20 Q. The total to dispose of all 21 the other items was $214,000; wasn't it 22 the number we were using? 23 A. Is that a question? 24 Q. Yes. 199 1 transportation and TOSKA disposal of 2 caulk and those other items together? 3 MR. McCLAIN: Your Honor, 4 wasn't this the item that I was 5 precluded from going into? 6 Because it involved other items? 7 I was precluded from going into 8 it. 9 THE COURT: Overruled. 10 MR. McCLAIN: Okay. 11 THE WITNESS: The total cost 12 of transportation and disposal for 13 that group of waste was $3,706. 14 BY MS. MEYERS: 15 Q. If you add that $3,706 to 16 your previous estimate for the cost that 17 the state incurred in removing the caulk 18 from the exterior building, and assume 19 that that entire $3,706 was attributable 20 to the caulk, does that change your 21 testimony that the state wasted almost $1 22 million in caulk removal? 23 A. No. It's still true. 24 MS. MEYERS: Thank you. No 20 1 1 A. I don't know. I don't know 2 where the $214,000 comes from. 3 Q. Just give me a ballpark 4 number from adding those up. I want to 5 let you go home tonight. 6 A. Thank you. You're talking 7 about what was the total cost of TOSKA 8 waste disposal, PCB-type waste disposal? 9 Q. Yes. 10 A. It would appear to be around 11 $200,000. 12 Q. All right. Well leave it 13 at round numbers, $200,000. 14 Okay. Now, real quick, 15 because I do want to let you go tonight 16 and you've been here an awful long time. 17 First of all, on this 18 $868,000 number -- 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 O. Mr. Goutman gave that you 21 document; didn't he? That's where you 22 got that number, the $868,000 number? 23 A. I don't remember who gave me 24 the document. It was one of the early ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060970 202 1 documents I reviewed from the PDG bidding 2 process. 3 Q. From the lawyers; right? 4 A. Yes. They copied it for me 5 and gave it to me. 6 Q. Yes. And this document, 7 regarding the other totals that we came 8 to today, was available; was it not? 9 A. Yes, it was. 10 Q. All right. And in regard to 11 whether you are right about your theory 12 of fire spread or we're right about 13 Mr. Ewing's theories or Mr. Kominsky's 14 theory about how the PCBs were spread, 15 were there any directions or warnings on 16 these ducts that said if you heat them, 17 whether it's in a fire or during the 18 regular heating season, any type 19 instruction at all that said these will 20 release PCBs? 21 MS. HERSCHEL: Objection, 22 Your Honor. 23 MR. McCLAIN: 111 rephrase 24 it. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 203 1 BY MR. McCLAIN: 2 Q. Was there any warning that 3 said if these ducts are in a fire they 4 contain PCBs and they will contaminate 5 this building? Any warning like that on 6 these ducts? 7 MR. GOUTMAN: Objection, 8 Your Honor. There's no obligation 9 under Pennsylvania law to warn 10 against a burning up of items. 11 MR. McCLAIN: Your Honor, I 12 don't believe that's an 13 appropriate objection. 14 MR. GOUTMAN: Can we see the 15 court at side bar? 16 THE COURT: Yes. 17 - - 18 (Whereupon, the following 19 was held at side bar conference.) 20 ... 21 MR. GOUTMAN: There is no 22 obligation under Pennsylvania law 23 to label everything in a building, 24 which has burned, give off a 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 204 toxin. This witness has already testified that everything in an office building if it bums will give off a toxin. No court has ever, in Pennsylvania, ever recognized an obligation for a manufacturer to warn against what might happen if your product is caught in a catastrophic building fire. MR. McCLAIN: We've briefed this extensively and your motion was overruled on that subject and your motion on compulsory nonsuit was overruled on that subject. MR. GOUTMAN: You said earlier, when Mr. Cocciardi was testifying, that you were withdrawing any claim for fire-related damages. Now you're saying well, there's a duty to warn against fire-related damages that you're not even claiming in this case. 205 MR. McCLAIN: I'm sorry, Mr. Goutman. I don't want to argue with you. It seems disingenuous to me. You've now put this witness up to say the way PCBs were spread in this building was through the fire. My withdrawal of the fire claim was those direct fire-related damages on floors six and five and four and you know that. MR. GOUTMAN: No, that's not true. Ken, you withdrew any claim for environmental costs related to the fire. MR. McCLAIN: You're going to keep him here overnight. I have a question that relates to did he see anything that would instruct the user, whether the heat source was the heat from the duct, whether it was from the tape or from the fire, that this product can contaminate your ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60971 206 208 1 building. Was there any 1 cause of action that doesn't exist 2 instruction such as that on these 2 on a claim that was withdrawn six 3 ducts and that's the only question 3 months ago. 4 I want to ask and I'm done. 4 THE COURT: Sustained. 5 MR. GOUTMAN: He's said he's 5 BY MR. McCLAIN: 6 seen no warnings on this. All 6 Q. Mr. Woodyard, in those 7 that counsel is trying to do is 7 instruction books that you've shown us, 8 make a point that CertainTeed 8 that you reviewed -- 9 should have put a warning about 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 what happens if your product gets 10 Q. - was there any type of 11 caught in a catastrophic fire; an 11 warning on those at all about the PCB 12 element of damages which counsel 12 content of the ductwork? 13 frankly has withdrawn and frankly 13 A. No, there was not. 14 which is not even recognized under 14 MR. McCLAIN: Thank you. No 15 Pennsylvania law. 15 further questions. 16 MR. McCLAIN: I'll rephrase 16 MR. GOUTMAN: No questions, 17 the question so it cannot be 17 Your Honor. 18 objectionable. 18 MR. NEAL: No questions, 19 MS. HERSCHEL: Can we know 19 Your Honor. 20 what that is? 20 MS. HERSCHEL: No questions, 21 THE COURT: Let me hear the 21 Your Honor. 22 question as you rephrase it. 22 MS. MEYERS: No questions, 23 MR. McCLAIN: Was there any 23 Your Honor. 24 warning or instruction that the 24 THE COURT: Mr. Woodyard, 207 209 1 PCBs in this ductwork could get 1 you may step down. 2 out under any circumstance, 2 THE WITNESS: Those are the 3 period. 3 six words that are going to set me 4 MR. GOUTMAN: That's the 4 free. Thank you, Your Honor. 5 same problem, Your Honor. We're 5 THE COURT: We're going to 6 talking about a product, be it 6 adjourn now until 11:00 tomorrow 7 carpet, be it that chair that 7 morning. 8 you're sitting in, that will 8 MR. McCLAIN: I'd like to 9 release toxins if burnt in a fire. 9 mark this exhibit that I made as 10 There's no court in Pennsylvania 10 2228F. 11 that's ever said, well, you're 11 MS. MEYERS: Your Honor, I 12 liable, if you don't put a label 12 have an objection to this exhibit. 13 that says don't, you know, don't 13 MR. McCLAIN: The one that 14 let this get caught in a building 14 we made, Mr. Woodyard and I, move 15 fire and if it does, you're 15 it into evidence at this time. 16 liable. 16 MR. GOUTMAN: I object, Your 17 There's no court that's ever 17 Honor. This, unlike the other 18 said there's an obligation to warn 18 times when a witness agrees with 19 about what might happen if a 19 certain numbers, this witness did 20 chair, ductwork or anything else 20 not agree with these numbers. He 21 like that is caught in a 21 agreed that this number appeared 22 catastrophic fire. That's the 22 in that document, but he did not 23 problem. 23 agree with this number and he 24 So, the question presumes a 24 didn't agree with that number. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60972 2 10 1 In other instances, where 1 LAWYER'S NOTES 2 we've allowed -- 2 3 THE COURT: There's two 3 PAGE LINE 4 issues, if I may. 4_______________________ 5 MR. GOUTMAN: Okay. You're 5_______________________ 6 the judge. 6_______________________ 7 THE COURT: One, that it may 7_______________________ 8 be marked and it may be marked. 8_______________________ 9 Two, that it be admitted; no, it 9_______________________ 10 may not be admitted. It is 10__________ ______________ 11 marked. What was the marking 11_______________________ 12 number? 12_______________________ 13 MR. McCLAIN: 2228F. 13_________ _____________ 14 THE COURT: 2228F. 14_________ _____________ 15 15_________ _____________ 16 (Whereupon, the proceedings 16_________ _____________ 17 concluded at 4:10 p.m.) 17_________ _____________ 18 18_________ _____________ 19 19_________ _____________ 20 20 ________________________ 21 21_______________________ 22 22_______________________ 23 23 _________ _____________ 24 24 1 CERTIFICATE 2 I hereby certify that the 3 proceedings and evidence noted are 4 contained fully and accurately in the 5 notes taken by me on the deposition of 6 the above matter, and that this is a 7 correct transcript of the same. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 John Begley, RPR 15 Teresa M. Beaver, RPR 16 17 18 (The foregoing certification 19 of this transcript does not apply to any 20 reproduction of the same by any means, 21 unless under the direct control and/or 22 supervision of the certifying shorthand 23 reporter.) 24 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060973 2 13 A abate 61:4 74:18 81:20 82:4,16 84:21 84:24 89:9,23 90:7 96:19,22 112:7,11 114:10 abated 61:6 64:2 97:4 abatement 62:11 75:19 78:9,17 79:24 89:11 90:24 91:16 92:4,11 97:10,12,24 107:21 able 20:23 67:21 115:9 166:20 about 9:12 10:23 16:3,17 16:20 17:19 17:22,24 18:17 19:8,14 19:19 20:14 23:12 26:2 27:8 32:24 33:4 34:14 35:9,15 37:20 38:6,10 42:9 45:1,21 46:1 46:24 49:17 51:8,13,18 54:3,16,17,24 56:23 58:15 59:9,24 60:8,9 60:10 61:14 61:20 75:14 77:20 79:4 80:11 86:8 89:5 94:20 95:22 97:7 99:1 100:13 101:16,23 102:5,14,21 104:17,19 105:19,22 108:20 109:1 109:13,14 110:10,12 111:23 112:9 112:24 113:8 118:4 121:7 122:5,18 126:2 131:21 132:1,5 134:6 134:8,10,11 136:13,17 137:18 138:23 139:5 140:13 140:17,18 144:12,14 145:5 149:13 150:10 151:24 152:22 155:19 155:21 156:16 158:10 159:17 159:20 160:2 action 95:11 161:17,24 208:1 162:2 163:12 activities 63:21 164:5,20,22 74:23 118:6 165:7 166:6 130:18 167:7,17,23 actual 23:20 168:8 169:5,8 24:13 36:16 176:8,17 41:3,24 62:10 177:17 179:4 71:4 73:7 179:11,13 76:23 89:5 181:5,22 159:8 174:23 183:18,19 actually 9:22 184:5,10,17 20:20,22 26:3 185:5,22 46:10 51:19 186:15,20 118:17 138:9 187:6 189:20 154:11 160:21 190:20,21 175:4 179:5 191:13,17 ad 164:22 193:6,12 add 88:23 195:6,23 199:15 196:7 197:19 added 84:8 198:15 201:7 127:7 136:12 202:11,12,14 170:3 206:9 207:6 adding 65:1 207:19 208:11 78:18 201:4 above 20:9 addition 71:11 32:21,24 76:19 104:1 36:12 143:13 additional 145:1 160:21 97:23 161:4 211:6 address 105:2 above-captioned addressed 1:13 113:6 abrupt 77:13 adhesive 23:1 absolute 89:20 58:18,20 absolutely 59:12,16 60:1 180:3,20 60:5 164:2,7 184:11,11 171:19 172:1 187:4 191:16 172:12 194:20 adhesives Academy 154:3 164:17 172:5 accept 51:3 172:15 52:6 adjourn 209:6 accepted administrative 158:15,20 53:17,18 accomplish admissible 115:1 111:16 123:6 according 32:6 admitted 63:14 32:22 71:24 72:2 accumulating 156:18 210:9 196:3 210:10 accuracy 69:12 adopt 56:8 accurate 43:11 ADVANCE 1:9 77:20 98:17 advice 183:19 105:9 108:22 183:24 184:9 109:1 136:17 185:16 accurately aerospace 1:7 44:23 77:9 2:23 211:4 affect 57:3 accusing 51:20 84:19 137:10 achieved 13:10 after 12:17,18 13:12 15:2,6 21:21 acknowledging 21:22 29:3,8 188:10 29:14 39:3,11 ACM 127:1 40:8 57:9 85:1 acne 31:14 134:6 145:16 across 31:9 146:22 147:4 act 59:5 83:22 167:13 169:18 131:20 132:4 181:4,19 acting 171:8 186:1 193:4 195:7 afternoon 70:3 70:4,6,7 149:23 150:1 150:4 163:9 177:11 197:15 197:17 afterwards 193:7 again 10:9 17:2118:5 40:23 48:4 50:5,11 82:21 83:15 138:14 142:22 153:21 160:6 167:20 171:16 192:4 against 113:11 126:6 179:8 203:10 204:7 204:22 agency 1:4 155:8 ago 170:13,14 208:3 agree 81:4 156:4 187:2 209:20,23,24 agreed 98:3 131:5 168:1 209:21 agrees 209:18 ahead 55:24 156:21 air 10:17 14:3,6 14:14,16 15:12,15,20 16:10 18:2,14 18:20 19:10 19:14 23:19 24:11,17 27:4 27:14,23 28:3 28:10,15,16 41:10 159:1 159:18,21,24 160:4,5,16,19 189:10 194:10 Airborne 84:6 albeit 172:14 alcohol 49:8,11 allege 26:13 allocate 74:15 78:2 116:5 allocated 76:3 78:10 116:3 allow 145:20 allowed 95:14 105:14 210:2 almost 16:21 18:2 19:18 92:7 97:14,22 102:3 115:22 116:10,24 117:13 136:2 160:19 197:21 199:21 along 41:16 66:6 156:18 already 22:23 82:15 84:24 90:1 93:12 104:2 114:11 119:9 138:5 204:1 Although 170:7 always 134:5 america 1:8 85:5 among 118:6 amount 66:14 70:21 76:4 78:1 119:15 127:18 142:23 analyses 174:10 analysis 43:8 43:10 45:14 46:17 48:11 48:24 54:21 144:14 158:2 189:14 194:6 analyze 19:2 46:20 52:1 56:12 analyzed 18:23 46:11 48:17 50:16 51:2,6 57:9 174:7,16 analyzing 14:9 158:15 159:17 and/or 211:21 announce 138:11 announced 82:15 84:24 88:14 125:10 another 42:18 55:20 77:10 79:12 85:19 155:11161:11 190:22 answer 16:1 40:24 98:24 101:20 122:20 150:16 180:8 180:14,20 183:2,5 184:6 195:18 answered 22:9 22:11 32:14 172:8 anyone 193:16 anyplace 133:13 anything 20:17 26:2 37:22 38:6,10 41:16 47:13 79:2 104:18 133:14 158:3 167:5 171:9 186:19 205:19 207:20 anyway 82:16 117:14 anywhere 107:6 135:17 135:18 137:15 apartment 6:15 apologize 44:8 48:5 55:23 apparently 7:13 36:13 110:19 appear 84:6 201:10 APPEARANC... 2:1 appeared 37:15 209:21 application 62:13 73:23 74:1 applied 138:9 applies 87:16 137:14 applv 59:2 74:21 138:2 188:11 211:19 applying 179:8 appraiser 72:14 appropriate 14:21 57:23 68:17 94:3 169:6 203:13 approved 146:4 approximately 17:15 48:19 arbitrarily 107:20 area 64:7,7 80:3 85:15 115:6 120:11 121:5 123:9 123:10 150:13 151:14 152:8 154:8 166:21 173:13 175:19 areas 114:16 123:14 143:19 143:20,21 144:6 172:24 173:1 aren't 45:3,10 51:15 54:2 56:23 argue 108:20 205:3 argued 50:17 110:14 arguing 90:23 argument 23:22 24:3 93:12 96:13 110:21 arguments 97:2 arithmetic 94:12 Aroclor 171:12 171:17 172:16 173:6,7,16,18 173:20,23 174:4,5,24 175:7,9,24 176:4 190:4 around 21:4 31:3 93:16 103:7 175:24 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60974 2 14 176:2,5 116:5 201:10 assumption arrange 12:20 91:15 art 11:6 attach 188:6 articles 152:23 attempt 166:5 153:3,9,18 attention 185:7 asbestos 28:21 195:8 55:15 56:2,5 attributable 56:24 75:18 90:24 92:1 78:9,17,22 97:24 199:19 80:20 81:20 August 82:18 82:16 84:6,20 187:8 85:6,13 92:10 authoritative 92:17 93:1 79:13 100:18 127:2 authority 146:9 181:22 190:1 available 202:8 193:2,3,5,7 average 34:18 196:9,19 35:17 139:9 asbestos-contai... 139:12 141:14 81:17 82:11 143:14 171:5 84:11 192:4 ascribe 90:10 averages 34:24 aside 97:12 35:4,12,22 asked 16:3 22:8 139:4,6 140:1 22:11 27:7 140:13,17,19 32:3 39:14 170:4,4,21,22 61:13 70:13 171:2,2,7 70:18 89:8 189:24 190:3 96:21 101:16 190:15,20 104:5 109:12 aware 26:6 109:22 112:8 72:11 82:9,18 122:4 130:6 110:6 193:15 150:9 156:16 193:22 196:11 162:10 180:9 196:16,20 182:16 183:18 away 49:11 185:22 186:14 149:17 187:5 188:14 awful 201:16 189:3,22,23 a.m 1:17 193:11 195:1 195:5 196:6 B 197:19,23 asking 64:20 66:2,15 72:21 104:22 114:4 124:13 Asks 81:2 assessment 145:7,16,24 146:14,17,20 146:23 185:9 185:14,23 186:4,8,12 assessments 185:5 associated 85:17 131:10 131:14 136:18 assume 25:20 56:22 67:1 81:3 131:17 166:17 174:2 174:18,22 175:6 199:18 assumed 162:11,12,16 162:22 163:11 163:14 assumes 146:8 assuming 71:11 B 2:3 back 16:2 20:18 28:4 40:23 60:11 62:17 62:21 73:18 83:8 89:15 93:13 96:11 122:7 134:20 138:13 140:12 169:15 183:12 186:2 background 133:2,11 172:19,21 173:12 175:16 175:22 176:7 176:10 backs 53:22 back-up 52:21 53:2 bags 57:19 baked 24:11 baking 23:9 baUast 125:18 126:7 128:14 128:15 ballasts 125:14 126:11 128:22 ballpark 201:3 banging 83:10 bar 86:6,24 87:4 119:12 122:7 123:1 129:8 203:15 203:19 based 28:15,17 28:19,20 72:12,15,16 77:1 98:1 169:10,12 185:21 188:12 191:12 192:20 194:6 196:4 basement 33:18 39:10 128:16 basic 12:5 41:12 155:18 155:21,22 156:4 basically 10:9 14:10 37:16 37:21 40:11 158:5 basis 11:13 50:3,9,20 104:22 168:20 170:3 Beaver 1:18 211:15 before 1:10,17 6:20 7:5,24 12:16 19:20 21:20 38:8 42:20 48:11 48:16 52:19 58:1 64:3,3 73:11 77:3 78:20 81:21 104:11 116:23 135:5 137:8 138:4,8 165:10 166:7 167:12 169:1 171:15 176:9 178:13 182:6 186:1,2,10 188:4 195:9 195:24 196:9 196:17 began 39:23 146:23 begin 30:1,2 70:9,10 beginning 103:1 164:16 Begley 1:18 211:14 behind 49:12 being 1:20 27:17,24 54:18 58:15 61:6 63:3 64:3 83:1 98:17 108:21 110:18 151:5 156:3 183:18 196:5 belabor 108:23 believe 30:22 33:9 46:7,22 50:22 55:7 56:1,7 61:8 67:13,23 74:11 79:6,7 79:18 82:13 85:24 93:17 103:24 108:20 123:3 145:2 159:24 177:16 178:3 179:19 180:23 182:4 203:12 believes 197:6 below 20:10 147:24 148:18 149:9 186:22 191:20 best 84:8 161:7 better 36:11 161:2,5,13 between 10:21 46:7,9 106:8 110:7 182:7 beyond 90:2 148:12 bidding 202:1 big 45:3 73:21 75:2 bill 76:11 billing 177:23 biologically 49:20 bit 17:24 19:12 45:23 141:6 black 39:8,9,18 39:19,21 40:2 43:13 44:1 77:13 blend 144:4 blow 186:11 blowing 178:8 blue 43:23,24 44:2 77:14 board 124:9 127:19 171:21 193:12,18,19 193:22,24 194:2,16 bonding 75:7 Bonn's 91:8 book 43:13,14 43:18,24 45:18 46:24 47:8 50:23 54:7,16,24 55:4 157:1,4,9 167:23 books 156:6,12 156:17,23 208:7 both 21:3,6 60:22 97:15 97:20 185:20 185:20 188:22 bother 31:22 32:10 bottom 23:13 142:8 165:13 165:14 bought 45:6 BOULEVARD 1:22 break 7:24 57:24 58:1 68:13 69:4,5,8 87:19 124:8 124:13,20 129:3 breaking 57:22 brief 7:23 58:3 176:23 177:2 196:24 197:19 briefed 204:11 briefs 106:11 bring 7:24 brings 108:1 broad 2:19 113:16 123:4 191:14 broke 70:12 broken 119:18 125:5,15 budget 76:18 98:2 build 162:14 building 21:16 22:20 23:20 24:14,17 26:8 26:13 28:5 29:8 34:12 35:13 37:2 40:15 59:12 61:5 64:2 76:5 80:21 82:4,12 84:7,22 85:1,5 85:8 88:8,11 89:10,24 90:8 96:23 98:15 101:21 105:6 111:20 112:7 113:2114:11 117:13 137:19 138:12 139:1 145:14 147:5 147:9,14,24 148:4,9,17,22 149:8,10 162:15 163:13 164:3 165:10 168:18 169:4 171:18 173:10 173:17 175:2 175:5,12 176:1,4 178:8 178:20 179:1 179:5 180:1,3 180:12,19 186:3,7,11,17 186:21,24,24 188:12 192:24 193:13,23,24 194:8,11,14 194:24 195:22 195:24 196:3 196:13 199:18 203:5,23 204:3,9 205:6 206:1 207:14 buildings 80:10 112:12 133:1 152:11 176:12 building's 145:17 built 148:4,17 148:22 163:5 bulk 46:20 139:13 142:18 burned 203:24 burning 194:15 203:10 burns 204:3 burnt 207:9 business 74:14 100:13 138:19 140:2 164:8 buy 148:8 C C 211:1,1 calculate 59:11 calculated 67:20 calculating 68:9 calculation 59:21 60:3 64:12 67:10 68:5 calculations 74:13 calculator 67:20 71:18 call 31:23 168:12,13 172:1 called 32:2 43:4 45:7 83:21 133:19 183:19 183:23 calling 176:10 calls 31:18 148:3,21 182:12,13 came 14:3 60:1171:19 76:16 106:5 106:24 134:6 145:9 158:14 202:7 Capitol 3:14 carbon 42:5 carcinogens 132:19 care 106:1 carpet 207:7 carpeting 37:15 carry 162:12 case 7:2,7 11:14 15:17 17:5,22 18:22 26:14 41:21 51:8 87:18 88:6 92:2,5,23 93:11,13 96:8 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60975 215 103:13 106:9 111:4 113:24 114:5 115:5 122:4 124:11 125:21 126:6 126:6 127:22 144:22 185:16 188:4 193:16 204:24 cases 32:5 46:11 156:8 casts 20:1 casual 40:19 casually 40:22 catastrophic 204:9 206:11 207:22 category 65:23 71:2 112:20 112:22113:1 113:4 caught 204:9 206:11 207:14 207:21 caulk 85:23 86:12,22 87:12,17,21 87:22 88:6,9 88:10,19,23 91:4,6,10,22 92:4 93:20,24 93:24 94:11 94:17,21 97:3 97:12,13,19 97:21 98:14 98:22 99:4,7 99:22 100:22 101:4,7,16,17 101:24 102:6 102:12,22,24 103:6,6,11,12 103:13,13,21 104:16 105:7 105:15,22 106:5,9,24 107:19,23,24 108:15,17 109:4,10 110:1,6,15 111:19 112:2 112:9,13,22 113:4,7 115:21,23 116:20,21,22 119:16 120:7 120:24 121:3 121:9 123:15 125:4,16 127:20 129:14 130:10 147:11 178:14 197:22 198:19 199:2 199:17,20,22 caulking 88:24 104:20 cause 32:11 89:9 208:1 causes 31:14 ceilings 189:10 Center 2:11 Centigrade 55:3 centimeters 133:20,22 certain 74:15 107:10 209:19 certainly 21:14 31:24 68:14 74:20 114:23 191:8 192:20 certainteed 1:6 4:7 24:21 25:5 25:14 95:13 108:7,8,9 126:12 161:20 164:14 193:17 206:8 certification 211:18 certified 153:24 154:4,7,16,17 certify 211:2 certifying 211:22 cetera 116:3 143:6 chain 44:22 chair 207:7,20 chamber 13:3,4 13:4,7 14:4,23 14:24 15:1,1 16:8 17:8,23 19:11 158:3 chambers 12:21 13:24 15:12 23:17 24:10 90:13 90:15,18 chance 63:2 Chances 107:8 change 49:7,15 164:7 199:20 changed 134:7 changes 163:6 chaotic 191:6 charge 31:5 126:20 127:1 charged 74:9 charges 121:17 Charles 1:11 8:8 chart 42:21 47:15 139:6 140:16 check 7:18 75:1 chemical 10:24 12:7 152:19 chemicals 54:20 chemistry 156:17 chemrex 1:7 95:12 Chicago 43:4 chief 155:2 179:20 180:23 chiseled 101:20 chloracne 31:14 32:11 chosen 138:5 circumstance 207:2 circumstances 174:14 178:16 citation 160:18 citations 157:11 cited 50:22 134:14,19 137:22 144:18 citizen 6:16 7:3 City 1:14 claim 53:14 95:4 204:19 205:8,13 208:2 claimed 64:8 67:18 claiming 204:23 CLAIN 2:2,3 6:21 7:4,11 22:1,6 23:21 24:2 29:20 30:6,13 32:20 33:24 34:5,8 43:1,16,22 44:3,11 47:14 47:17,20,24 48:8 54:13 55:22 57:20 58:11,13 60:18,24 61:2 62:2,6,8 63:7 63:15 64:20 65:9,14 66:8 66:22 68:2,6 68:16,24 69:6 69:20 clanging 83:10 clarified 104:11 clarify 98:23 120:4 197:18 clarity 18:10 clean 31:20 145:21 179:1 181:3 184:23 cleaned 29:2,5 29:7,10,13 30:8,16 117:14 143:20 149:9 179:7 179:15 194:19 194:21 cleaning 39:4 80:10 178:18 181:15 cleanup 133:18 135:8,14 138:21 178:7 178:17 179:10 181:6 184:5 184:10,13,14 185:1,4 187:13 189:19 194:22 cleanups 80:7 135:2 184:16 clean-up 29:9 32:4 41:23 61:18 67:18 clean-ups 31:4 41:6 clear 39:16 104:14 105:24 116:8 140:1 clearer 98:24 clearly 36:8,24 57:16 client 83:3 108:2 clients 135:7 185:19 close 17:16 71:20 140:2,4 clue 41:2 Cocciardi 40:6 174:8 204:17 code 63:20 66:17 codes 63:22 collapsed 26:16 194:2 collected 12:18 32:3 39:3,3 136:14 143:19 158:13 160:11 170:9 173:4 196:5 collecting 14:6 14:16 collection 44:13 collector 14:8,9 column 15:13 15:14 18:10 18:14,21 65:12 69:16 columns 65:8 come 11:8,9 31:20 89:15 103:11 128:4 138:13 140:12 156:6 177:21 comes 184:3 201:2 comfort 7:24 57:24 comfortable 68:7 coming 22:24 23:3 47:5 120:13 comma 16:14 comment 75:23 151:24 188:19 COMMISSION 1:3 committed 9:15 common 45:24 67:1,3 commonwealth 1:1,14 8:5,6 62:1,2 73:19 77:21,24 81:6 81:15,19 82:2 84:20 100:11 101:1 119:1 132:7 company 1:6,9 1:9 3:19 44:19 45:7,12 136:10 company's 93:24 compare 166:5 170:23 171:4 171:7 188:1,7 compared 133:18 140:10 156:1 165:16 167:8 170:4 171:2 187:13 comparing 17:19 52:3 competition 83:8 competitor 111:8 Compliance 184:12 complicated 12:11 comply 50:12 compound 33:23 34:4 54:11 compulsory 204:14 computed 170:21 computer 71:13 189:11 computing 140:19 concentration 16:19 49:7,16 concentrations 13:16 concept 49:3 concern 28:21 concerned 54:3 56:23 100:12 114:6 150:12 concerning 24:22 93:15 104:3 182:16 188:15 196:8 concluded 210:17 conclusion 81:3 169:7 182:14 194:12,17 conclusions 15:23 25:12 84:5 194:5 condition 31:14 193:14 conditions 74:8 74:16 75:9 78:11 116:2,9 116:15 117:24 conduct 134:24 conducted 41:9 conduits 33:14 conference 87:4 123:1 129:9 203:19 confusion 115:7 connected 137:9 Connecticut 3:16 consecutive 13:6 16:7 consequently 100:10 108:10 113:13 consider 136:1 146:17,20 consideration 144:7 considered 146:1 152:1 considering 133:11 146:23 considers 48:12 consistent 18:3 34:18 92:5 191:5 192:22 193:1 constructed 165:19 contact 133:21 133:23 143:20 143:22 144:6 144:21 185:11 187:15,17 188:17,17,22 contacted 133:7 contain 99:8 101:8 203:4 contained 91:6 101:8 103:14 107:7 109:4 211:4 containers 56:16 containing 56:5 98:13 107:24 122:12 127:2 148:9 contains 84:12 contaminate 203:4 205:24 contaminated 36:5 78:22 contamination 41:1 133:1,3,9 133:11 141:10 148:18 152:10 194:19 content 208:12 context 39:13 40:4 168:6,7 continued 138:9 contract 54:22 61:17 91:9 92:9,13 99:11 107:3 116:11 117:23 119:5 contractor 62:11 64:2 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60976 2 16 67:17 74:9 contractors 181:6 contractor's 76:10,17 198:5 contrary 80:8 control 53:3 154:9 211:21 controlling 14:18 conversation 40:19 copied 202:4 copies 66:18 copy 9:19,23 12:22 43:17 44:9 48:5 75:13 87:20 195:2 corner 166:13 166:14 168:19 170:9,16 corporation 1:7 1:8 3:10 correct 27:15 31:6,11 43:6 53:12 56:10 56:14,18,23 58:19 59:8 60:7 62:19 63:24 64:6 71:3,6,12 72:7 77:2 78:14 99:13 101:13 103:15 110:4 111:18 118:10 138:3 139:11 139:23 142:16 147:6 151:6 151:10 152:12 152:24 153:4 153:11 154:10 154:18 155:18 155:21 156:7 156:13 157:6 158:1,7,16 159:2,18,21 160:16 161:23 165:1,2,8,9,17 166:3,17 167:19 168:5 170:5,6 171:12,13,20 172:2,13,21 172:22 173:2 173:8,11,15 174:3 177:18 185:12,13 192:17 198:13 198:21,22 211:7 corrected 162:22 correctly 190:21 corresponding 69:18 cost 61:4 77:24 80:6 89:5,22 96:19,22 97:11,13,23 98:21 99:3 102:21 104:15 105:5 112:7 130:1,10 131:14 178:9 197:24 198:18 198:24 199:11 199:16 200:10 201:7 costing 102:3 costs 60:8,9 74:18,21 75:16,17 78:15,18 85:17 90:6 112:11 116:4 198:12 205:14 counsel 23:22 24:3 27:7 47:10 64:18 102:8 103:20 122:22 151:18 183:11,14 206:7,12 counsel's 65:5 75:23 117:18 counted 160:7 countries 184:20 country 31:9 96:10 106:6 couple 24:21 132:3 167:9 course 14:7,14 19:24 24:12 52:12 134:4 145:15 151:9 158:11,24 161:1168:24 171:22 180:17 191:3 court 1:1,14 6:1 6:6,13,22 7:6 7:13,19 8:2,6 8:119:711:9 11:16 14:11 16:12 18:9,13 18:19 22:4,14 24:4 30:2 32:16 34:7 44:10 48:7 54:12 55:17 58:2,6,8,9 60:17 61:24 62:4 63:14 64:19,23 65:1 65:6,12 66:5,9 68:22 69:3,7,9 69:12,23 70:1 70:1,4,7,10,13 70:18 71:24 72:2 73:16 75:24 79:16 81:9 82:7 83:6 85:10 86:7,11 86:18 87:1,6 87:10 89:12 16:11 19:15 89:17 90:1,14 cumulative 92:8,15 93:11 22:2,7 94:23 95:1,6,8 curious 61:19 95:10 99:7,14 current 31:17 99:18,24 curve 17:11 100:4,16 20:6 101:5 102:17 custody 44:22 102:23 103:10 customers 26:4 104:5 106:11 107:23 108:8 D 109:24 110:9 D 5:1 8:19,19 110:24 111:5 111:14 113:9 65:17,18,20 65:21,24 113:21 114:15 66:11,17 114:21 115:16 67:16 117:9,20 damage 95:15 119:20 120:2 180:12 120:10,20 damages 94:24 121:3,6,20 95:3 113:10 122:6,21 113:11 114:6 123:3 125:3 115:8 126:5 125:17 126:8 204:20,22 126:10,17 205:9 206:12 127:16 128:3 DANAHER 128:8,17 3:12 129:2 130:4 data 9:16 12:10 130:14 131:7 12:12 15:24 131:23 146:10 16:4 20:5 32:2 148:13 149:4 34:10,22 35:8 149:14 151:13 35:12 36:14 152:4 169:21 44:13 138:22 176:15,18,22 177:4,9 141:17143:17 143:23 144:4 182:20 183:10 197:1,5,5 144:16,20 150:15 155:24 199:9 200:2 157:1,10,10 200:16,18 158:6,8,10,21 203:15,16 158:21 159:8 204:4 206:21 161:2,5,7,12 207:10,17 168:9 169:10 208:4,24 169:12,13 209:5 210:3,7 171:9,10 210:14 173:4 188:13 Courtauld 188:15,19,23 108:5 111:18 189:8 190:22 courtaulds 1:7 191:12,19,20 2:22 103:17 192:22 195:7 Courtroom 195:12 196:5 1:15 date 9:24 57:10 covered 180:2 164:11 180:16 C RAC KEN dates 195:13 day 7:10 34:15 2:16 35:21 53:23 created 11:6 140:7 151:8,8 170:20 172:23 173:1 creates 141:14 191:17 credibility days 46:13 114:7 48:13,15,15 CRIER 70:1 48:23 50:7 criteria 133:18 51:3 52:2 187:13 dealing 51:23 critiqued 158:7 deals 121:2 cross-examinat... 154:8 104:23 155:20 dealt 187:18 178:6 debate 117:16 cross-examine debating 117:4 79:11 debris 136:14 cubic 15:17,21 decide 138:1 designed 49:4 decided 107:16 58:21 163:2 107:20 186:10 desks 38:20 decides 185:19 destroyed 64:3 decision 82:3 detailed 189:14 declared 8:7 detect 15:18 decon 147:12 21:7 42:5 decontam detectable 117:8 160:21 161:3 decontaminate detected 15:19 105:5 20:20 decontamination detective 41:5 63:23 64:13 deteriorate 66:12 71:2 49:19 72:6 74:7 76:6 deteriorating 77:22 79:23 49:6 193:19 94:8 112:21 determination 112:24 117:11 145:17 147:4 129:15 130:9 168:21 177:23 determine defective 74:18 114:23 126:18 determined defendant 2:22 171:12 172:20 3:9,18 4:7 determines 93:23 106:8 123:22 109:18 124:10 determining defendants 69:13 1:10 93:10 developed 96:20 113:13 145:16 113:19,23 developing 123:11 54:19 deficient 53:8 development defied 10:4 50:14 definitely 24:15 DGS 179:21 147:20,21 180:24 181:3 definition 181:7 187:8 192:8 188:20 degrees 16:9 dialing 14:19 17:7,8 18:1 difference 19:12,18,19 17:18 36:18 21:4,10 55:3 37:3 41:12 delve 123:9 differences demobilization 35:22 75:12 78:12 different 13:24 116:9,15 14:2 17:1 118:1,5 33:13 34:17 demolished 37:4 51:22 64:4 149:8 52:16 63:20 demolition 66:1 76:20 178:22 87:16,23 88:4 demonstrated 91:10 107:3 53:6 114:12 110:13 111:21 114:16 118:6 135:24 denied 95:16 138:18,19 department 1:1 162:8 164:6 1:2,5 138:1,5 168:11 170:23 depends 192:7 172:14 174:4 deposit 36:9 176:4 178:1 deposited 23:4 181:15 193:10 differently deposition 1:21 13:13 37:1 211:5 difficult 83:13 deposits 38:15 difficulty 66:7 38:18,22 digging 111:11 describe 63:20 direct 81:9 138:20 104:24 136:1 described 58:16 155:20 195:7 deserves 185:6 205:9 211:21 design 179:21 directed 108:11 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60977 217 directing 184:16 directions 202:15 disagree 59:23 80:22 153:6 disclosed 38:24 discuss 119:12 discussed 14:17 52:19 132:12 discussion 115:21 137:4 162:24 disingenuous 205:4 dismissed 125:24 126:17 disposal 92:11 101:24 118:9 119:5 121:15 121:17 123:15 124:3 125:1 127:18 131:10 131:12 198:1 198:12,19 199:1,12 201:8,8 dispose 118:18 130:11,17 200:10,20 disposed 101:22 118:15 122:11 129:15 129:20 distinct 100:17 distributes 36:24 distribution 80:17 191:10 192:19 dividing 168:9 division 179:20 180:23 divorce 115:9 document 63:3 63:18 67:22 68:8,18 70:15 70:23 73:11 73:14,17,21 74:5 75:2 76:17,17,21 98:1,4 122:1 132:1 133:15 134:3,20 135:17 177:24 178:1 201:21 201:24 202:6 209:22 documents 24:21 25:5,13 26:1 113:2 135:4,6 155:14 161:18 164:5 202:1 doing 7:16 12:24 25:8 31:9 41:6 45:24 50:20 53:4 68:5 74:10 75:18 78:17 116:24 135:20 dollar 116:4 dollars 31:8 done 25:6 27:8 27:13 29:16 34:6 38:7 48:14,23 54:21 55:24 60:3 69:5 71:13 95:1 97:1 106:22 114:19 123:23 155:7,8 156:19 163:21 164:6,9 170:24 174:15 194:23 206:4 doubt 20:1 down 11:8,10 13:9 14:20 19:5 21:3 33:6 33:11,12 59:10 76:5 77:5 87:20 90:8 119:19 124:8,13 125:5,15 129:3 142:7 142:13,19 147:5,14 157:15 209:1 Dr 32:22 46:23 47:2,8 54:6 145:6,12,22 185:23 dramatic 140:10 dramatically 16:24 37:6 draw 11:1 25:13 drawing 14:14 drawn 15:16 19:11 dried 164:18 194:1 drive 78:24 driven 79:1 driving 80:20 dry 38:6 drying 193:18 duct 18:22 19:1 19:4 21:19 23:1,16 25:8 26:3,7,12 124:9 127:19 162:9 171:19 171:21,22,23 193:12,18,19 193:22,24 194:2,16 205:22 ductboard 10:10 12:15 13:15,24 18:23 19:6 22:19,21 23:6 24:10,19 EMERGENCY 25:15 26:15 1:4 26:17,22 emphasized ducts 202:16 134:21 203:3,6 206:3 employees ductwork 138:11 186:23 38:16 60:1,6 encompass 161:21 172:12 100:6 196:2 207:1 encountered 207:20 208:12 150:24 due 33:12 end 7:1,6,12,21 during 14:14 14:10 102:2 15:16 21:17 ended 92:18 23:5 38:5 110:17 129:9 43:21 69:5 enforcement 151:3 155:3 51:19 158:23 162:13 engineer 23:14 179:19 202:17 24:8 dust 39:1,8,9,18 engineering 39:19,21 40:1 25:17 77:10 42:6 180:24 179:20 dusting 181:8 enlarge 113:16 181:18 enough 17:16 duty 204:21 35:10 49:10 123:4 171:3,9 E 183:10 E 5:1 18:11 entailed 181:11 211:1,1 entails 181:13 each 13:11,12 entire 29:7 14:1 15:4,12 168:22 199:19 18:22 32:10 entity 111:6 69:14 70:20 entries 66:23 129:13,18 entry 66:13 132:12 140:5 67:2,3 142:15 150:24 environment earlier 16:3 133:6 40:24 60:21 environmental 118:13 134:19 45:14,18 197:20 204:17 155:7 205:14 early 201:24 EPA 32:7,21 easier 66:21 33:1 46:4 easily 23:2 29:4 48:11,22 176:11 49:12,22 50:2 east 65:18,20 50:5,11,14 166:13 51:3,9,18,24 Ect's 139:2 52:6,10,24 EDGE 6:5,11 54:4,5 56:17 8:4,15,23 58:4 132:7 133:18 58:7 69:9 135:8 136:2 effect 30:16 137:22 138:10 effort 114:24 138:15,21 eight 59:15 145:3,12,19 eighth 7:10 145:23 155:14 36:11 179:6 185:4 either 76:15 185:10,10,24 91:21 114:19 186:22 187:13 118:12 130:22 188:2,8 146:5 185:3 189:20 ELECTRONICS EPA's 51:1 1:8 52:4 53:7 element 126:5 54:18 206:12 equal 34:11 elements 64:13 Erickson 47:3 elevator 33:15 54:6 Elizabeth 6:11 Erickson's elsewhere 46:24 47:8 33:19 50:23 50:23 54:16 54:15 156:24 157:4 167:23 error 136:9 137:8 ESQUIRE 1:21 2:3,10,18 3:2 3:3,4,13 4:2 essentially 163:5 establish 90:5 established 46:16 49:23 54:8 90:2 establishing 124:2 estimate 118:16 178:23 197:24 199:16 estimated 179:4 estimating 85:17 et 116:2 143:6 evacuate 82:3 evaluating 41:23 evaluation 152:10 evaluations 135:1 evaporation 10:22 157:5 even 22:24 28:10 31:21 31:22 32:21 32:24 34:6 49:14 50:22 53:21 76:4 81:21 88:23 100:23 103:5 106:10 125:14 148:4 156:24 159:7 161:2 161:13 183:3 191:9 192:19 196:9,17 204:23 206:14 event 169:23 eventually 41:6 ever 31:21,23 32:11,23 33:1 59:10 73:6 135:9 145:12 145:19 146:4 146:13 175:16 184:9 185:23 187:24 193:17 204:5,5 207:11,17 every 35:18 40:14,21 65:22 66:10 66:13,16,24 91:1 143:12 144:24 167:11 172:23 173:1 180:2,15 everybody 66:21 everybody's 158:10 everyone 50:13 everything 170:19 174:8 203:23 204:2 everywhere 40:20 194:14 evidence 26:7 26:18,24 38:18 40:7 42:19 49:14 61:21 63:11 66:19 71:22 80:8 91:5 95:15,19,23 95:24 96:1 100:24 104:19 107:6 108:16 110:4,5 146:3 193:16,20,21 194:4 209:15 211:3 evidentiary 106:16 Ewing 9:12 12:21 41:9 77:6 136:5,17 137:4 Ewing's 9:16 9:20 10:12 13:1,14,22 20:14 22:17 158:11,19 202:13 exact 104:12 153:12 162:19 163:17 exactly 17:14 19:16 33:16 54:17 92:5 166:18 169:5 180:8 examination 30:4 150:6 155:20 158:24 177:13 197:12 200:6 example 35:23 36:1 91:4 133:16 examples 16:7 excavated 127:8,10 exceed 54:1 133:9 except 34:12,19 35:18 37:8 38:11,17 51:11 105:3 161:12 167:11 excess 127:24 excluded 93:14 excuse 19:13 47:12 55:18 123:24 135:19 136:23 160:3 190:6,10 193:23 executing 80:6 exhibit 61:20 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60978 2 18 62:3 69:19 70:13 71:22 73:18 83:20 83:20,21 85:21 86:8 94:7 198:4 209:9,12 exist 208:1 existed 141:13 existing 172:24 expect 10:11,14 10:16 12:4 17:12,17 18:5 19:22 21:15 49:9 192:1 expenses 67:18 expensive 178:24 experience 28:18 53:4 78:16 80:7,12 85:12 135:4 135:20 150:17 experienced 80:9 experiment 9:17 23:15 24:9 25:2 158:20 experimental 163:19,21 experiments 9:13 13:22 24:22 25:3,6 163:1 164:6 expert 79:12,15 79:19 80:3 137:5 148:24 151:14 152:8 164:13 expertise 80:5 80:11 136:15 136:21 137:1 137:3 150:13 152:2 explain 10:1 15:22,24 36:2 36:4 37:2,5 64:12 122:8 178:11 explained 38:14,15 39:16 172:6 explaining 162:24 explanation 82:23 explore 152:3 exposed 22:22 84:10 exposure 84:14 132:19 134:16 exposures 134:1 expressed 46:13 extensively 126:2 204:12 extent 85:16,18 exterior 88:19 88:22 93:23 94:10 102:11 102:22 104:16 107:24 110:1 110:7 111:13 113:7 115:21 115:22 119:15 120:17 121:7 127:19 129:14 130:9 197:22 199:18 exteriors 111:20 extra 61:10 extracted 46:11 extraction 48:14 extractions 54:9 extremely 49:18 191:18 191:22,23 F F 211:1 fabricated 161:22 face 143:16 fact 35:21 38:2 77:21 80:19 93:14,20 98:16 102:10 113:10 124:8 137:24 144:17 163:24 169:1 174:23 188:6 facts 136:13 fails 162:5,6 failure 26:7 fair 168:16,23 169:8 190:19 familiar 42:8 44:20 45:9,15 45:17 46:23 83:19 far 80:14 91:18 114:6 145:11 150:12 161:20 161:21 175:17 FARRINGTON 2:2 fashion 146:2 feasible 132:20 133:10 134:2 134:17 feasors 123:17 feet 166:8,8 few 27:12 196:24 fiberglass 23:4 field 45:24 79:19,21 fifth 140:22 figure 64:24 90:2 figures 90:6 filters 189:10 finally 162:16 find 21:8,15 35:12 finding 174:8 fine 58:2 69:21 finish 156:20 169:18 finished 55:19 fire 12:17,19 21:21,22 22:13,22 23:5 23:16 24:9 27:9 28:21,24 29:3,8,15 34:20 39:11 39:22 40:8 42:20 85:1 135:12 137:18 165:11 167:13 167:13 176:9 181:4,6 186:1 191:7 192:8 192:23 193:4 193:10 194:15 196:18 202:12 202:17 203:3 204:10 205:7 205:8,15,23 206:11 207:9 207:15,22 fireproofing 34:16 61:6 82:11 84:11 139:14 169:3 176:9 fires 135:5 137:14 151:1 187:23 fire-related 194:18 204:20 204:22 205:9 firm 77:10 first 13:5 14:24 15:4 16:2,8 17:6 60:10 61:9 65:15 83:7 87:6 96:6 98:9 132:5 135:9 139:22 151:5 201:17 fit 20:11 five 18:1 22:9 28:24 34:23 43:3 160:22 161:4 167:11 179:4 193:6 205:10 fixtures 125:13 125:18 194:16 Fleming 52:14 53:10 107:12 flexible 58:21 59:7 flip 17:3 floor 1:22 3:5 27:9,9,14,17 27:23 28:2,11 28:14,23 34:13,20 35:18,18,24 36:5,11,11,16 37:4,5,9,23 38:5,8,12 64:6 64:7 87:22 88:9,20,20 91:2,22 111:22 139:12 139:12 140:22 140:22,24 141:10,13,18 141:19,20,20 141:21,21,22 141:23 142:22 142:22,23 143:2,3,3,4,4 143:12 144:24 165:23 167:11 168:4,5,10,17 168:22 170:19 178:18,19 189:10 190:18 192:10 floors 28:4,21 28:24 29:2 34:19 36:6 38:1,14,21 40:8 93:17 140:9 166:7 186:16 189:9 189:11 190:1 190:11 192:5 192:8 205:10 flying 196:2 follow 17:10 48:7 104:7 197:3,6 following 66:6 87:3 90:17 122:24 203:18 foot 59:16 force 80:20 foregoing 211:18 foreign 184:20 forgot 16:14 form 11:3 former 111:6 forth 12:12 103:21 168:11 forward 151:20 162:13 163:3 found 13:10 19:3,24 24:16 34:15,19 39:11 81:21 126:17 139:1 142:23 173:7 173:17 175:8 175:10,11,13 175:13 194:9 194:13 196:9 foundation 72:19,24 90:23 91:14 91:21,24 93:8 94:4 98:7 104:7,8,19 106:16,23 122:16 131:4 149:12 four 7:14 13:4 15:1 28:24 55:2 76:23 131:1 142:23 175:15 179:11 184:21 205:10 fourth 140:22 frankly 68:4 120:14 206:13 206:13 free 209:4 freon 126:20 fresh 37:16 38:11 from 7:20 9:16 9:23 13:3 14:16 15:24 19:21,22 20:3 24:18 25:13 25:13,16,20 29:8 31:12 34:9 36:6 37:14 38:16 47:22 48:24 49:5 52:13,17 61:5,17,17 65:1,24 67:9 67:22 70:23 71:4 72:5 73:7 75:1 76:16 78:16 80:10 80:21 84:13 85:20 89:23 93:15 96:23 97:12 100:17 106:5,24 112:11 120:13 124:20 128:21 128:24 130:17 132:4 136:14 139:6,14 155:4 160:8 161:19 165:10 167:10 168:11 168:19 175:21 177:21,23 183:11 189:13 190:4,16,22 190:22 192:1 192:5 199:5,7 199:18 201:2 201:4 202:1,3 205:21,22,23 front 88:3 89:4 159:10 full 8:16 45:11 fully 211:4 furniture 37:16 37:21 189:4 189:12 further 29:19 93:7 107:2 149:22 164:15 177:5 196:22 200:1 208:15 G gallons 128:21 Gannett 52:14 53:10 107:12 Garden 6:17 gas 56:20 gasket 127:21 gassing 21:17 24:18 37:3 38:16 56:24 57:3 gather 6:7 gave 59:14 60:11 64:10 70:16 82:23 126:22 127:5 127:24 136:13 196:7 201:20 201:23 202:5 general 1:2 11:24 74:8,15 75:9 78:11 104:4,10 105:4 116:2,8 116:14117:24 158:20 generally 78:12 85:4 132:1 generic 100:5 generically 100:9 gentlemen 9:2 29:23 70:9 149:24 gets 18:17 206:10 getting 94:2 113:3 124:12 167:24 give 23:24 35:24 127:15 183:19,24 184:9 185:17 201:3 203:24 204:4 given 35:2,8 36:24 66:1 72:17 73:6 85:22 146:1 gives 185:9,15 giving 105:9 glad 122:7 glass 55:12 56:15 57:17 glue 25:14 26:2 26:7,11 157:19 193:18 193:24 glues 59:1 go 19:22 31:3 33:6,11 36:10 49:11 55:24 64:15,21 66:14 69:1 90:13,14 96:5 96:11 115:18 122:7 156:21 169:4 183:11 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60979 2 19 201:5,15 goes 10:19 12:5 19:21 65:22 92:20 113:9 going 11:4,21 11:22 16:2 20:18 40:23 57:21 68:8 105:12,19,21 109:9 140:12 147:15 181:19 189:18 199:5 199:7 205:16 209:3,5 gone 62:9 67:5 82:2 88:17 good 8:10,11 9:1,3,4,5 18:17 29:20 29:22,24 68:3 70:3,4,5,7 74:3 149:23 149:24 150:3 155:17,22 156:2,3 157:11 168:12 171:7 177:10 190:24 197:15 197:17 gotten 162:16 goutman 3:2 5:3 7:17,22 8:12,13 9:1,9 11:4,11 12:9 14:22 17:13 19:7 22:10 23:8,23 24:5 29:18 30:8,10 32:13 33:22 34:3 42:22,24 43:16,19 47:12,16,19 47:23 54:10 58:17 60:14 60:20 61:13 61:22 62:9 64:17 65:4 72:1,15,18,23 75:21 77:5 79:9 80:23 81:2,7 82:5,19 83:2,21 85:7 89:8,21 93:6 95:23 96:3,18 99:5 101:12 102:8,20 103:3,15,19 106:2 109:8 109:15,23 111:9 112:1,6 112:17 114:18 117:5,17 119:6,11 120:9,18 121:1,8,18 122:13 124:7 125:22 126:1 126:4,13,15 127:8,12 128:5,20 130:2,12 131:2 139:17 145:5 146:7 148:2,11,20 149:2,11 162:10 177:7 177:10,15 180:10 181:12 182:15,21 183:5,13,17 190:14 196:21 200:12 201:20 203:7,14,21 204:16 205:2 205:12 206:5 207:4 208:16 209:16 210*5 Goutman's 100:8 113:15 government 155:15 grab 27:3 grams 59:15 granted 126:8 graph 11:1,13 11:14,19 12:1 20:10,11 great 11:6 greater 130:24 grid 168:13 grinding 178:18 grounds 95:17 group 199:13 groups 129:19 Guide 45:18 guideline 134:23 138:11 H half 59:24 85:3 165:13,14 186:6 191:20 Hall 1:15 hand 9:22 handful 160:20 handwriting 18:16 happen 10:15 22:19 36:6 53:24 204:8 207:19 happened 10:11 26:10 33:16 37:23 37:24 happening 196:4 happens 206:10 happy 51:9 69:21 hard 35:23 75:13 hardens 59:3 Harris 6:11,12 6:13 Harrisburg 173:4,5,13 175:17,18 Hartford 3:16 hauled 149:17 having 28:7 50:3 66:7 97:1 163:19 171:8 174:19 hazard 135:1 hazardous 92:10,20,22 99:19,21 100:14 101:9 153:24 154:2 154:3,5,8,9 heading 44:17 health 135:1 137:24 138:5 hear 22:5 83:13 90:12 206:21 heard 31:12 33:5 46:24 93:12 95:7 124:23 149:12 151:2 155:1 heat 23:18 202:16 205:21 205:21 heated 13:23 23:17 38:5 heating 202:18 heavily 159:1 held 1:13 16:16 48:16,18,24 49:10 51:7 87:4 90:18 123:1 203:19 help 69:2 184:7 184:8 HENDERSON 2:9,10 HERSCHEL 4:2 6:4 63:1 63:12 126:14 151:16 172:3 202:21 206:19 208:20 Hershey 173:18 175:1 176:3 hey 164:15 high 36:1 133:21 143:20 144:5,20 156:17 185:11 188:16,22 191:18,23 higher 17:24 18:1,6,7 19:12 19:13,15,19 19:23 21:10 37:7 38:13 141:1,6,8,14 185:10,15 186:16,21 highest 13:9,11 15:11 141:4 highlight 66:18 69:2 highlighted 69:1 88:17,18 189:2 him 64:21 66:2 66:15 72:17 72:22 81:2 97:3,6 99:17 99:23 100:15 100:20 101:16 102:7,16 105:13,19,21 109:13 124:4 126:23 127:5 136:18 150:18 150:22 169:2 205:17 himself 113:6 hired 72:15 hold 48:22 51:10 55:2 holding 26:17 45:22 46:2,3 46:15 47:9,21 48:10 49:4,13 49:23 50:3,6 50:15,18 51:1153:15 53:23 54:2,8 54:19 57:10 182:23 183:3 183:6 HolloweU 93:15 103:4 home 6:16 7:3 201:5 honor 7:23 8:14 9:4,6 11:5 22:1,7 23:21 24:1 29:19 30:1 32:14 34:2 44:8 48:4 54:11 55:23 57:21 58:12 60:15,24 62:7 65:2,16,23 66:9 68:4,16 70:3,6 71:21 72:19,24 73:21 75:22 79:10 80:24 81:12 82:6,20 82:24 83:23 86:6,10,17,23 87:14 90:12 90:20 93:6 97:8 103:4 105:11 106:2 106:4,14 107:3 109:16 109:23 111:11 114:20 115:14 119:7,18 120:10 121:2 121:9,19 122:14 124:7 124:22 125:9 126:19 129:6 130:2 131:3 132:2 139:18 150:1151:17 151:23 152:7 169:19 172:4 172:7 176:13 177:6,8 181:10 182:12 183:7 196:23 197:10 199:3 200:1,4,13,17 202:22 203:8 203:11 207:5 208:17,19,21 208:23 209:4 209:11,17 honorable 1:11 8:7 hook 77:13 Hopefully 7:11 hoping 165:21 hour 14:1,10 15:5,6,7,7,8 15:16 16:15 17:6,6 hours 13:6 15:7 15:8,8,8,9 16:7 23:18 24:11 hovering 175:24 176:2 176:5,7 HOYLE 4:1 huh 144:2 HUMPHREY 2:2 hundreds 27:23 31:8 Hurst 72:11,20 73:6 HVAC 33:7,19 36:21 hygienist 154:16,17 I idea 6:18 40:24 168:12 183:9 identification 104:3 106:17 106:19 identified 25:20 40:7 98:11,13 124:17 IEA 45:7,9,14 illustration 161:1 imagine 42:7 129:22 immediately 29:11 important 25:18 41:4,22 144:6 167:14 improve 25:10 25:10,19 163:2,21 164:7 improvements 25:22 improving 25:23 inaccuracies 114:17 inappropriate 83:5 104:1 inc 1:7,7 2:23 45:14 inch 40:14 180:2,15 include 97:19 105:14 116:13 118:11 119:14 123:5 130:21 141:15 included 87:21 101:10 126:22 141:17 161:10 197:24 includes 87:24 88:1,15 94:18 112:2 119:7 120:3 124:14 125:11,13,16 143:19 189:9 including 33:13 75:7 88:7 98:8 116:1 125:2 138:20 158:10 incomplete 144:16 inconsistencies 12:13 16:4 inconsistent 10:3,7 103:23 191:6,9 192:23 incorrect 171:10 increase 10:17 10:18 12:4 increased 98:4 increasing 11:20,21 195:23 incremental 78:18 incurred 75:17 199:17 indeed 98:14 Independence 2:5 independent 33:7 indicate 26:1 28:8 133:2 156:22 indicated 28:9 153:23 155:16 157:2 158:23 178:5 indicating 11:15 12:8 13:17 18:8 20:7,12 40:3 65:3 162:4 individual 69:15 74:23 129:18 164:24 indoor 133:22 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060980 220 187:16 industrial 25:17 45:13 154:5,7,16,17 163:1 industry 164:9 inference 93:2 information 136:8,16 138:24 165:7 175:9 informing 84:9 iiyury 123:13 inquire 6:9 inquiry 120:12 inside 14:3 insignificant 78:19 inspection 194:8 inspections 44:12 instance 132:12 156:10 165:22 instances 32:1 155:23 210:1 Institute 154:1 instruct 205:20 instruction 202:19 206:2 206:24 208:7 insurance 75:8 interfere 57:4 interior 88:10 91:4,6,10 98:14 100:22 101:3 102:6 103:6,21 105:7 106:4,9 106:23 107:19 109:4 120:7 120:24 121:3 121:7,8 129:14 internal 16:4 internally 10:7 interpret 130:13 interpretation 136:6 150:14 interpreted 136:4 interpreting 135:21 interrupted 34:1 83:1 introduces 167:5 investigation 152:9 investigations 132:24 investigator 155:3 investigators 133:8 134:24 invoices 61:17 involve 113:22 152:15,18 156:5 involved 37:13 52:9 68:23 115:5 150:20 157:18 181:14 199:6 involves 152:16 involving 92:24 123:10 irrelevant 109:16 isolated 28:2 issue 33:4 45:24 51:11 53:15 56:22 87:18 88:6,11 93:9 100:21113:9 127:22 issues 105:18 152:9 184:12 210:4 item 70:19,20 76:10 85:19 85:22 88:21 91:3 100:16 112:9,13 114:5 119:18 124:20 198:16 199:4 itemizing 94:11 items 67:17 73:14 74:16 74:17 78:6 86:1 87:17 88:4,16,19 94:10,19 97:21 98:8 104:21 113:18 118:9 119:8 121:12 122:11 122:17 123:5 124:21 125:4 129:13 177:23 189:5,12 198:20 199:2 199:6 200:10 200:11,21 203:10 J James 32:22 145:6,12,22 185:23 January 182:4 182:6 JFK 1:22 job 74:22 78:18 john 1:18 5:2 8:18,21 211:14 joined 93:22 124:17 joint 123:18 jointly 124:12 joints 110:7 Joseph 179:21 journals 153:4 153:11,14,16 155:12 JOYCE 2:18 jr 1:118:8 judge 7:1 86:15 89:20 96:14 108:18 114:1 151:14 152:7 210:6 judging 41:1 judgment 28:15 126:9 167:6 jumped 26:11 jumping 194:1 Jurors 58:4 jury 8:1 9:3 10:2 15:23 29:24 35:1 46:1 57:24 79:4 88:3,14 89:4,22 90:11 94:16,20 114:9115:8 116:7 123:22 124:23 125:11 178:11 198:23 just 7:23 8:15 10:23 11:24 12:12 18:9 25:1 32:14 35:4 38:8 45:6 46:11 50:8,20 52:24 59:11 75:18 78:15 78:17 86:16 86:20 88:13 90:7 94:7 98:3 101:12 105:23 107:13,16,19 111:10116:7 119:14 124:23 125:10 127:15 130:4,8 136:4 136:18 137:9 139:24 144:15 150:14 152:14 152:16 155:14 155:17,21 157:9 158:2 162:11,12,15 165:9 175:24 178:24 180:14 183:16 195:17 196:4 197:18 198:15 201:3 justify 53:22 K K 4:2 KATHY 3:3 keep 11:16 49:5 59:6 205:17 keeping 156:5 Ken 205:13 KENNETH 2:3 3:13 kept 134:1 170:2 KERR 4:1 key 62:20 63:16 65:24 66:11 86:12,19 Keystone 147:24 148:17 kicking 38:21 kind 13:1 20:8 36:3 37:2 68:5 74:13 143:24 156:13 185:6 191:24 kinds 163:4 175:18 knew 109:14 135:11 165:9 know 12:21 *27:2 31:2 33:16 37:12 37:22 38:4,6,9 40:16 41:7 42:9,13 43:12 45:8,21 47:2,6 47:7 52:10 55:14 57:2,12 60:2 64:23 67:23 68:3,10 72:20 73:1,5,9 80:1181:14 84:18 91:11 91:12,13,16 91:17,23 93:21 95:22 99:5,14,20 105:15 108:14 109:9 120:2,6 120:12,23 121:23 124:11 128:7,24 129:17,24 130:16 131:17 142:1 145:11 146:12,24 148:16,24 149:16 153:13 154:11160:14 161:8 165:5,6 165:7,24 166:11,18,23 169:24 170:1 170:2 174:12 174:13,22,23 174:23 175:3 176:8 181:2 181:13 182:14 182:17,22 183:3,14 184:6 195:19 201:1,1 205:11 206:19 207:13 knowing 100:1 knowledge 50:13 83:12 147:1 known 10:4,20 11:2 18:4 56:19 171:15 171:16 172:11 187:24 knows 50:13 93:5 94:20 107:18 109:3 109:5 181:10 182:20 Kominsky 79:19 80:2,13 150:11,17 151:13,20 152:8,22 153:23 154:15 154:20 155:2 155:6 158:21 166:22 Kominsky's 79:3 80:5 150:13 151:2 152:1 158:11 165:16 166:2 168:8 169:1,9 171:4 202:13 L lab 19:1 53:4 56:7 label 203:23 207:12 labels 166:16 laboratories 54:22 laboratory 25:7 43:4,5 45:2,19 46:7,8,12 52:14 158:2 174:17 182:3 lack 53:2,3,3 ladies 9:2 29:22 70:8 149:24 lady 6:10 LAGNESE 3:12 laid 13:13 93:8 lamp 14:19 23:11 lamps 23:18 landfill 129:16 149:18 169:4 169:12 language 134:14 162:20 163:18 lapse 46:9 large 158:17 larger 127:3 largest 141:12 last 6:3 8:16 62:24 162:1 164:12 170:12 180:8 187:10 Lastly 195:1 late 6:14 8:3 later 57:11 85:3 98:3 174:9 175:15 latest 164:10 law 2:9 51:20 184:6,7 203:9 203:22 206:15 laws 10:4 18:4 lawyers 202:3 LAWYERS 212:1 lead 135:15 leading 120:21 learning 25:23 least 21:9 22:9 49:4 151:7 174:9 leave 185:18 201:12 left 9:11 legal 182:13 less 178:9,24 193:3 let 9:22 24:6 27:3 42:2 66:9 122:10 129:12 148:5 149:6 201:5,15 206:21 207:14 letter 83:22 131:20 132:4 132:6 134:6,9 134:9,12 135:21 137:13 137:16 139:2 144:18 187:6 187:8 letters 135:23 let's 16:6 33:3 42:18 56:22 60:8 83:6,14 85:19 115:20 131:19 134:9 166:17 169:8 174:2 176:22 level 10:8,16 11:15,20,21 12:2 16:9 18:6 18:6 19:10,13 19:22 29:14 32:22 33:1 36:3 132:20 133:2,10,19 134:1,2,13,17 141:1,4,4 143:13 145:1 145:20 147:23 148:1,19 149:10,18 160:22 173:12 185:1,10,11 186:16 190:21 191:20 levels 16:23 17:9 18:1 19:3 20:9 28:10 32:9 34:10,15 35:13,15,17 36:1 37:6 38:13 138:24 139:8 149:3 170:23 172:21 172:23 175:17 186:15,20 188:1,7 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60981 22 1 195:22 long 15:5 46:6 Lexington 2:4 46:8 48:12,15 liability 106:14 49:10 159:7 123:18 170:13,14 liable 207:12,16 201:16 Liberty 3:5 4:3 longer 48:23 light 118:24 look 12:1 19:16 125:13,18 23:7 26:21 126:7,11 34:22,23 35:4 128:14,15,22 35:11 42:18 181:8,18 44:4 52:13,15 194:16 52:22 53:1,9 like 11:21,22 53:10 55:5 12:1 13:1 20:9 65:10 85:19 34:140:6 41:5 87:19 98:19 41:9 43:20 112:1 127:17 49:7,8,9 50:19 131:19 132:16 51:13 54:20 138:22 142:17 62:14 77:14 142:19 143:9 94:7 119:13 143:11 144:19 135:23 136:4 144:20 159:12 143:22 145:13 198:3,15 152:19 158:3 looked 34:11,23 170:21 180:7 77:3 83:23 198:3 203:5 104:13 134:19 207:21 209:8 156:23 159:7 likely 94:21 167:22 188:23 limit 95:3,8 looking 13:19 100:10 101:6 25:4 65:15 115:4,20 73:18 76:20 limitation 86:1,11 103:18 121:24 139:4 limited 93:1 144:21 187:7 94:24 95:11 loss 49:15 102:24 104:15 lost 96:5,6 157:7 lot 6:24 13:18 limiting 115:20 16:19 51:5 line 23:13 64:21 60:4,4 94:18 64:22 67:17 135:22 136:12 76:10 88:21 138:19 147:17 91:2 212:3 157:10 161:9 lines 41:16 178:17 180:14 156:18 low 14:15 49:18 liquid 128:21 55:8 133:22 liquids 127:12 143:21 144:5 128:4 144:21 187:16 list 140:8 188:17,22 142:20 191:22 192:11 listed 47:21 lower 16:18 48:10 70:20 18:2 19:18 88:20 153:19 21:1147:17 listing 94:9,10 167:12 193:6 198:11 lowest 20:19,22 literature 31:17 21:5 132:20 53:22 156:6 133:10 134:2 157:14 134:16 litigation 51:12 lump 88:3 51:15,18 52:1 lumped 198:20 52:7,10 lunch 58:1 69:8 109:19 124:18 69:10 70:14 little 13:13 luncheon 69:4 16:17 17:24 69:5,24 19:12 45:23 71:18 85:14 M 141:6 168:19 M 1:18 3:2 170:16 living 7:7 LLP 2:17 location 190:22 18:11 211:15 machine 65:21 made 25:22 48:5 82:3 147:4 151:24 163:7 168:21 209:9,14 maintain 85:6 182:9 ' maintained 82:12 maintenance 84:9 make 16:5 17:1 20:3 25:8 36:17 54:20 98:24 156:1 166:4 189:17 191:11 206:8 making 83:12 84:21114:24 161:1195:16 Malcolm 6:1 managed 84:8 129:18 management 1:4 154:2,9 manager 154:1 154:5,8 Managers 154:3 managing 85:13 Mancuso 40:9 179:21,24 Mancuso's 180:22 manually 71:15 71:18 manufactured 26:3 91:11 93:10 95:12 95:20,21 96:20 103:17 106:5,7 107:1 109:9,18 113:19 124:10 127:13 manufacturer 93:19,21 96:9 106:21125:23 126:7 204:7 manufacturers 98:10 124:16 many 15:2 28:6 54:157:11 65:7 68:22 88:4 107:22 150:21 153:20 176:18 184:15 184:18,20 187:21 March 1:11,17 mark 209:9 marked 18:11 18:14 210:8,8 210:11 market 3:6 4:4 106:13 marking 210:11 Mary 7:9 master 153:24 mastic 93:17 178:19 material 49:8 59:5 84:12 107:7 127:21 149:17 154:3 169:11 198:2 materials 50:19 81:17 92:11 92:21,23 99:19,21 100:14 101:9 123:16 154:1 154:2 198:13 math 191:21 matrix 157:18 matter 1:13 28:23 78:2 114:7 211:6 matters 121:20 155:19 maximum 140:8 141:4 191:14 maximums 191:15,18 192:21 may 7:7 9:6,7 11:9 30:1,2 42:17 44:10 55:13 58:7,10 70:9,10 84:10 86:6,23 89:12 102:18 113:24 115:8 119:20 122:21 129:3 133:6 156:8 156:19 169:19 169:21 176:13 177:7,9 209:1 210:4,7,8,10 maybe 12:12 19:12 66:19 69:15 128:12 150:23 153:21 165:13 166:20 MC 2:2,3,16 6:21 7:4,11 22:1,6 23:21 24:2 29:20 30:6,13 32:20 33:24 34:5,8 43:1,16,22 44:3,11 47:14 47:17,20,24 48:8 54:13 55:22 57:20 58:11,13 60:18,24 61:2 62:2,6,8 63:7 63:15 64:20 65:9,14 66:8 66:22 68:2,6 68:16,24 69:6 69:20 mcclain 5:4 55:17 63:1 70:5,8,11 71:21 72:3,9 72:21 73:1,4 73:20,24 74:4 76:1 79:17 81:5,11,13 82:8,24 83:17 83:18 84:2 85:11 86:14 86:20 87:11 88:2 89:7,14 89:19 90:4 92:8,12 93:4 94:6,23 95:9 95:14 96:1,4 98:16 99:9,16 99:23 100:2 100:15,19 101:11,15 102:7,13 104:4 105:3 105:12 108:18 109:11,20 110:14,17,23 111:2,10 112:5,17 114:1 115:10 115:19 117:7 117:10,21 119:10,14 120:5,15,20 120:22 121:10 121:22 122:2 122:9,19 123:12 124:1 124:19 125:7 126:1,21 127:4 128:13 128:19,23 129:11 130:6 130:15 131:8 131:24 132:10 139:20 146:11 148:5,7,14,23 149:5,15,21 150:10 179:15 180:6 181:9 182:11 183:1 183:8,15 190:12 197:2 197:8,19 199:3,10 200:2,3,8,14 200:19 202:23 203:1,11 204:11 205:1 205:16 206:16 206:23 208:5 208:14 209:8 209:13 210:13 McClain's 113:14 182:2 mean 12:13 20:16 32:21 34:11 40:20 46:3,3 138:23 139:8,10 140:11 143:11 143:13 166:24 166:24 167:4 means 117:6 139:10 142:8 142:10 191:19 211:20 meant 10:2 60:23 80:16 192:9 measurable 21:16 measure 20:23 measured 14:2 15:11 measurements 20:24 36:17 38:9 41:24 measuring 16:24 41:4 media 34:17 median 140:9 191:18 meet 179:6 memory 9:16 mentioned 37:8 39:6 40:9 54:15 86:12 105:23 137:8 145:3,6 156:24 179:18 merely 134:23 metal 171:22 meter 15:18,21 16:11 19:15 133:4 187:14 187:16 method 46:19 46:21 51:2 56:5,8 methods 44:21 46:16 meyers 2:18 63:13 81:1 86:5,9,23 87:8 87:14 89:15 90:10,11,20 93:24 94:5 97:8 99:12 100:21 102:14 103:2,16 104:9 105:11 107:2 108:2,7 108:21 110:2 110:3,11,19 111:3,7,17 112:3 115:13 119:17 121:24 123:24 124:22 125:9,20 126:16,24 127:6,10,15 128:7,10 129:5 196:23 197:1,9,14 199:14,24 200:17 208:22 209:11 Michael 91:8 microgram 160:22 187:16 micrograms ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60982 222 15:17,21 117:24 118:4 N 5:1 16:10 19:14 modes 152:11 name 6:3 8:4 133:4,10,20 moment 60:9 8:16,17 45:11 133:21 185:11 83:7 122:22 nauseam 187:14 143:9 169:18 164:22 microphone 169:19 176:14 neal 3:12,13 14:12 money 78:1 6:24 24:20 middle 159:14 91:19 116:17 141:3 149:23 191:19 198:16 118:20 178:17 150:8 151:23 might 12:11 monsanto 1:9 152:5 169:22 22:19 68:17 3:9 95:13,21 172:6,10 156:1,24 96:9 108:6,9 176:13,16,20 188:11 204:8 MONTGOME... 177:4,5 195:6 207:19 2:16 208:18 miles 60:6 month 61:9 nearly 112:14 mill 141:11 134:6 142:22 million 19:5,6 months 46:14 necessarily 71:19 73:6 51:7 208:3 22:23 50:4 76:8,23 78:4,7 more 17:17 76:11 80:1 86:4 88:15 23:15,24 24:7 168:7 174:6 90:22 92:7 24:16 36:5 necessary 94:18 97:14 50:21 61:4 61:11102:1 97:22 98:5,21 62:4 91:19 117:12 99:3 102:4 98:18 114:14 need 41:8,9,10 112:14114:4 135:3 152:16 41:11 82:21 114:13 115:22 189:13 193:3 144:20 176:19 116:4,24 morning 8:10 176:20 184:7 117:23 131:1 8:11 9:1,3,4,5 needed 32:4 131:4 141:5 29:20,22,24 76:12 179:5 141:12 178:16 163:8 189:23 needs 6:1,6 179:2 181:6,8 209:7 78:9 138:1 181:17 190:5 MORRIS 4:1 never 31:24 190:6,7,8,16 most 30:17,18 32:18 52:6,9 190:17 192:6 59:1 80:17 59:13 91:7,13 197:21 199:22 85:5,8 118:14 94:24 98:15 Milton 173:18 121:14 184:19 100:23 101:3 175:1 176:2 193:9 194:13 102:5,6 107:4 mineral 1:6 motion 95:16 135:6 137:23 3:19 204:12,14 138:8 186:9 minute 33:3 motions 7:16 188:3 102:17 125:17 motivated new 6:15 23:6 176:17 91:18 37:15,16,16 minutes 15:3 motivation 37:18,18 176:18,21 54:18 38:11 113:3 mirarchi 1:11 move 7:2 75:22 147:24 148:16 8:8 151:14 117:18 124:24 next 6:2 15:13 152:7 125:12 128:2 15:14,18,20 misleading 89:6 163:3 183:16 16:15 18:21 97:18 127:17 209:14 65:18,19 128:11 172:4 moving 6:15,19 189:6 misled 94:22 much 19:23 nexus 106:8 Miss 102:13 20:1 36:16 nice 166:19,24 108:2,21 59:11 75:10 191:9 110:1 102:2 118:16 nine 143:9 misscharacteri... 121:17 130:1 NIOSH 29:13 60:16 130:10,16 82:18 132:13 Missouri 2:5 141:1 145:17 132:18 133:8 mistake 180:24 157:8 165:20 133:13,17 mistakes 178:23 180:19 134:5,22,24 107:22 181:2 194:21 135:3 136:2 mix 78:19 194:22 198:24 138:6 143:13 188:15,19 200:10 143:23 144:1 mixed 143:24 must 44:20 144:3,10 188:23 134:21 145:1,5 146:4 mixes 164:7 muster 83:16 146:8,13,15 mobilization M.D 1:2 147:23 148:1 74:6,8,24 75:5 148:19 149:10 75:8 78:11 N 154:21,22 116:2,8,14 155:3 186:16 186:21 187:6 187:7,8,18,24 188:6,16,18 189:15 NIOSH's 82:9 84:19 nobody 107:18 non 15:18 21:6 None 116:3 nonfire 190:11 190:17 192:5 nonPCB 118:15 nonsuit 95:16 204:14 norm 51:14 normal 21:17 north 1:8 166:13 Notaries 1:20 noted 21:6 211:3 notes 211:5 212:1 nothing 88:5 118:4 149:12 noticed 83:9 nowhere 137:12 138:14 NO.284 1:1 number 13:5 14:2 19:23 27:8 33:12 54:5 60:11,12 60:19 61:12 61:13,16 64:9 64:10 65:6 67:21 68:9 69:13 70:19 70:20 71:7 72:3,5,10,11 72:16 73:7 75:5,10 76:14 76:23 77:20 86:3 87:16 88:1 89:3 90:22 92:3 97:7 98:4 105:8,20 116:4 118:12 119:3 124:14 124:23 125:10 125:12 126:22 127:5,23,24 128:11 129:24 130:22,24 131:9,11,18 135:3 138:17 141:5,12,13 141:15 146:5 152:22 153:13 159:4 177:18 177:21 185:9 185:15 187:22 192:13,19 198:7 200:22 201:4,18,22 201:22 209:21 209:23,24 210:12 numbers 11:23 13:2,6,18 59:14 60:22 60:22 65:2,7 66:1,3 67:12 67:14 68:11 68:20 69:16 74:7,9 75:1 78:2 112:15 118:23 127:3 130:7 143:10 143:24 147:3 147:8,11,16 147:19 179:9 191:22 201:13 209:19,20 O O 8:19,19 Oak 3:15 oath 8:24 35:1 114:9 obey 184:6 object 82:21 83:4 89:6 122:15 131:2 180:6 209:16 objection 30:10 32:13 33:22 54:10 60:14 60:20 63:5,12 63:13 64:17 65:4 72:1,18 75:21 79:9 80:23 81:1,7 82:5,19 85:7 86:5,9 87:15 94:1,6,13,15 100:7 115:14 115:17 117:5 117:17 119:6 119:8,17 120:9,11,19 121:1,4,18,21 122:13 123:7 129:2,4 130:4 131:3 139:17 146:7 148:2 148:11,20 149:11 151:16 151:17 172:3 181:9 182:11 200:12 202:21 203:7,13 209:12 objectionable 206:18 objective 22:17 obligation 83:3 203:8,22 204:6 207:18 obtain 169:20 obvious 135:10 occasions 155:17 occupational 132:19 133:6 134:15 occupied 27:24 178:21 occupy 187:1,3 odor 180:17 off 6:2,7 9:12 14:3,14 15:16 19:11 21:17 23:3 24:18 37:3 38:16 56:20,24 57:3 69:14 170:9 170:16 203:24 204:4 offer 63:10,10 71:22 offering 63:5 114:3 office 37:21 133:1 173:17 175:2 176:3 182:2 189:5 189:12 204:3 OFFICES 2:9 off-gassed 191:10 Oh 20:8 31:21 32:10 52:18 73:22 105:12 140:18 142:9 144:15 184:11 191:16 Okay 6:21 7:20 9:24 12:14 47:16 68:22 69:6 71:10,17 125:7 155:16 190:23 197:8 198:10 199:10 201:14 210:5 old 52:7 once 22:11 50:5 149:16 153:17 153:18 one 2:11 3:5 4:3 14:24 15:6,7,8 15:18,20 16:20,21 19:17 21:2,3 38:8 43:14,19 43:23 44:1,2 54:14 56:11 63:22 65:16 65:18 67:24 74:20 76:23 77:14 85:24 94:7,21 96:11 101:3 107:5 107:22 127:3 135:24 136:13 138:20 139:22 141:11,11,12 145:19 150:23 153:21 154:14 155:11 161:11 164:12 167:17 168:20 169:2 169:19,24 170:15 176:17 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60983 223 185:19 189:2 189:6 197:18 201:24 209:13 210:7 ones 13:3 158:17 only 7:14 31:13 32:11 33:6 35:2,9 36:2 38:14 88:18 93:20 94:20 96:10 100:12 110:4,5 111:23 113:11 114:13 137:14 157:3 158:17 160:15,20 171:15,16 172:11 173:6 189:17 206:3 open 8:7 27:18 opened 200:14 operation 21:18 opinion 72:12 72:15 82:10 82:14 113:21 117:16 opposed 28:3 39:1 178:7 opposing 79:15 option 146:18 original 28:20 54:18 157:21 originally 50:15 61:3 165:21 other 7:16 15:19 17:10 18:24 19:19 20:10 21:7 28:4,24 31:4 34:15 35:12 35:21 36:6 37:5,24 38:2 38:13 52:12 73:13 74:16 92:22 96:7 97:2 98:8 99:19,21 100:14,21 101:8 104:20 108:4,15,17 124:15 140:5 140:7 150:24 156:23 157:11 158:6,8 160:5 167:9 173:7 174:10 175:8 191:17 192:9 198:20 199:2 199:6 200:9 200:11,21 202:7 209:17 210:1 others 84:10 94:3 158:16 164:5 189:13 otherwise 49:20 115:6 123:6 ought 62:21 out 13:13 22:24 26:11 35:24 53:20 67:19 71:19 75:1 81:21 92:9 101:21 107:16 112:18 115:1 124:20 134:6 140:7 141:3 155:24 156:7 162:5 163:15 163:24 178:16 188:22 189:16 194:1 196:2 196:19 207:2 outdoor 187:15 outer 165:16 outfit 45:3 outside 28:3 101:21,24 102:24 103:13 105:22 over 10:8,9 11:5 13:3 16:10 22:3 23:18,19 24:11,12 28:21 30:8,12 30:21,24 33:7 34:17 38:22 40:11 44:4 62:9 70:14 74:22 84:3 108:23 126:8 132:16 142:17 143:9 162:3 169:2 187:19 overly 113:15 overnight 205:17 overruled 22:14 24:4 32:16 34:7 130:14 152:4 199:9 200:16 200:18 204:13 204:15 overseeing 184:16 own 41:10 46:6 49:14,19 50:16 87:20 139:6 140:16 157:22 158:1 167:5 175:22 194:8 owners 85:5,8 135:8 Oxford 2:11 O'NEILL 3:3 P P 1:115:2 8:8 18:11 PA 2:12,20 3:7 4:5 142:4,5,8 page 5:2 9:23 44:4,9 47:10 47:13 48:6 62:24 64:15 64:16 65:10 65:10,15,19 65:22 66:10 66:13,16,24 68:20 69:15 70:19 84:4,5 86:16,17,21 87:8 131:23 132:17 133:16 159:12 195:8 198:3,7,9,16 212:3 pages 68:23 69:18 88:18 paid 30:20 31:7 64:4,9 76:10 77:21,24 paint 38:6 panels 110:8 111:24 paragraph 159:15 187:11 part 26:16 46:4 61:18 91:15 91:17 118:1 124:5 136:21 136:24 137:2 137:5 156:3 particular 160:18 188:4 particularly 46:5 50:18 partitions 37:21 parts 19:4,5 74:15 190:5,5 190:7,7,16,17 192:6 party 92:1 passes 83:15 past 135:23 150:18 pay 27:23 payment 62:14 64:14 71:4 72:5 73:8 74:1 75:10 77:1 78:4,6 85:20 88:16 198:6 payments 62:10 PC 3:12 PCB 11:15,20 11:20 19:18 20:20,23 21:8 21:16 22:24 23:3,14 24:8 24:18 26:11 27:21 28:10 28:15 29:8 31:4,13 33:21 34:10,15 35:14 41:5,6 44:12 46:17 49:13,15,23 50:19 51:8 53:4,23 56:5,8 57:5 59:4,5,24 60:4 61:5,18 63:23 64:13 65:17,18,20 65:21,24 66:11,12,17 67:16,18 71:2 72:6 76:6 79:23 80:6 89:11 90:24 91:16 94:8 97:10,11,24 112:20,24 117:7,11 118:19 121:12 122:12 124:3 127:12 128:3 130:8 132:24 133:9 135:13 138:24 143:14 147:11 148:9 148:18 152:10 155:2 157:1 173:14 175:18 175:18 176:11 177:22 184:16 187:23 191:10 193:6 195:21 208:11 PCBs 10:17 12:2,3 14:3,16 15:19 16:10 16:20,23 17:9 18:1,18,19,20 18:2119:2,13 30:8,17 31:20 54:20 58:15 59:11,16 77:22 78:9,19 78:23,24 80:10,17,21 81:16,20,22 84:12,14 89:10,23 90:7 91:6 92:10,18 93:2 95:22 96:10,19,23 97:4 98:13 99:8 100:5,7,9 100:17 101:6 101:8 103:14 105:6,8 106:10 107:8 107:24 108:4 108:14,16 109:4 112:5,8 112:11 116:18 120:7,24 124:15 125:19 139:13 142:19 151:15 152:9 153:10,14,16 157:17 160:21 176:8 183:19 183:24 184:13 184:23 186:15 186:20 189:24 192:16,23 193:3,9 194:1 194:9,13 196:1,3,9 202:14,20 203:4 205:6 207:1 PCB-containing 123:16 PCB-related 105:18 152:9 PCB-type 201:8 PDG 62:10 76:16 77:22 77:23 101:17 113:1177:23 202:1 peak 16:16 peaks 57:4 Pecora 110:16 111:1 peer 153:3,10 153:13,15,20 155:12 PEN 71:23 83:20 Pennsylvania 1:1,1,2,3,4,5 1:14,16,23 8:5 106:18 203:9 203:22 204:5 206:15 207:10 penthouse 65:16,17,18 65:19,20,21 142:3,4,8,11 people 25:6 32:2 38:20 39:16 40:6 51:10 53:23 107:12,14 135:7 174:10 184:2,12,22 186:2,7 188:1 people's 158:6 158:8 per 15:17,21 16:1119:5,6 19:14 59:16 133:4,20,22 187:14,16 190:5,5,7,7,16 190:17 192:6 percent 59:17 179:4 percentage 78:8 perfectly 51:9 performance 162:9 performed 27:17 43:7,9 perhaps 41:2 49:2 75:14 76:20 141:5 153:17 160:14 period 155:3 163:12 174:7 207:3 permit 103:11 permitting 103:20 person 137:9 personal 6:8 personnel 61:10 persons 113:12 perspective 25:17 29:9 pertinent 119:23 PGD 78:6 PH 142:2,10 phase 65:16 Philadelphia 1:15,23 2:20 3:7 4:5 PHILIPS 1:8 Phillips 126:15 Phone 2:6,13 2:21 3:8,17 4:6 photographs 103:5 phrase 10:6 phrased 96:17 96:18 physical 152:19 picked 156:16 picture 108:3 127:16 pictures 37:14 piece 10:10 18:23 19:1 23:6 42:19 101:3 pieces 13:23 19:4 22:21 23:16 24:9 26:22 Pinoni 107:13 pipes 83:9 Pittsburgh 2:12 place 3:5,14 4:3 23:15 24:7,15 34:17 36:2 38:22 82:12 84:8 placed 24:10 38:12 places 32:9 plaintiffs 2:7,14 26:13 103:8 plaintiffs 93:13 113:17 198:4 plan 107:21 planning 81:19 82:15 plans 84:21,24 196:8,12 plant 25:6 plastic 55:12 56:20,24 57:3 57:19 plasticizer 59:6 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60984 224 playing 41:5 plaza 87:21,22 88:9 91:22 110:10111:22 please 8:9 11:17 13:20 16:1 61:23 70:2 86:24 119:21 122:22 198:5 plot 20:6 point 14:5 20:4 36:23 57:22 89:21 93:22 96:13 108:24 141:17 142:24 146:16 155:24 157:9 160:22 161:4 191:19 195:15,21 197:19 206:8 pointed 35:23 53:20 112:18 140:7 141:3 188:21 pointing 162:5 points 92:9 policy 134:7,18 134:23 138:14 145:4 portion 88:24 119:24 posed 104:11 position 196:17 possible 53:4 post 22:13 23:16 24:9 195:13 Practical 45:18 practitioner 138:18 precast 125:15 127:20 precaution 84:9 107:17 preceding 16:21 189:2 precise 40:17 precluded 199:5,7 predemolition 147:11 179:7 preferred 29:14 prefire 164:21 164:23 165:23 171:11 172:19 172:20 173:10 181:22 193:2 193:5 prepare 70:13 94:9 preparing 94:6 present 1:20 151:3 presented 193:16 preservation 44:21 presiding 8:9 pressure 12:7 49:18 157:5 presumed 39:20 presumes 207:24 presuming 136:10 pretty 20:1 38:3 140:2,4 140:10 145:17 180:18 190:24 previous 7:15 128:24 199:16 previously 72:17 primarily 80:14 150:19 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79:22 181:23 183:20 refers 159:22 186:17 reflect 76:11 recalled 8:21 reflected 163:6 received 106:11 refuse 52:24 161:18 165:8 refused 52:15 recess 58:3,5 52:22 69:10,24 regain 112:18 176:23 177:2 regard 46:17 recessed 58:6 78:10 123:18 recleaned 147:2,23 179:5 202:10 recognize 115:2 regarding recognized 25:14 42:19 204:6 206:14 70:14 84:4 recollection 138:24 202:7 107:11,15 regardless recommend 53:15 97:1 133:24 134:1 regards 84:20 134:13,15 Registered 1:19 recommendation regular 202:18 84:19 132:13 rehearsing 132:14 134:22 151:19 137:13 rejected 158:16 recommendati... 158:18 84:4 relate 109:17 recommended related 28:14 133:8 134:5 36:9 67:18 recommending 80:6,14 189:15 121:16,19 recommends 135:4 205:14 132:18 133:14 relates 205:18 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60985 225 relating 100:4 108:5 relation 111:9 157:16,17 relationship 10:21 11:2 166:1 relative 80:16 relatively 34:18 36:1 release 41:23 202:20 207:9 relevance 188:10 relied 77:4 159:1 relying 180:21 remaining 97:23 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27:4 42:1 44:17,21 46:9 49:5 80:14,15 143:10 165:23 165:24 166:2 167:8,19,24 168:19,20,21 169:2,24 170:16 sampled 160:3 193:4,7 sampler 46:8 samples 21:8 24:17 28:6,7 35:3 38:23 39:2,17 42:6 42:20 43:3 46:20 47:21 48:10,16,24 50:15,21 51:1 51:6,8,21 52:7 53:7,10,14 55:10 56:2,6 56:12 57:1,5,9 77:6 136:5,19 137:10 140:19 143:14,18 144:24 158:12 159:21 160:7 160:8,10,16 164:21,23,24 165:8,15,17 166:22 167:9 168:10 170:8 171:3,11 173:10 181:22 182:10,17,24 183:4,7 sampling 41:3 45:24 56:8 139:13 142:19 150:14,15 152:15,17 157:22 159:18 168:13 170:12 174:14 sat 157:14 satisfied 175:21 saw 33:10,17 34:9 39:1 65:24 77:4 saying 19:20 23:23 50:8 54:7 78:15 94:16 96:14 114:2 144:10 162:21 169:2 170:17 204:21 says 31:19 43:24 44:16 44:19 47:9 48:22 55:4 63:9 84:5 92:17 99:19 105:17 109:5 109:6 132:18 132:23 134:3 135:22 137:12 162:5 191:14 207:13 scaffold 88:22 scenario 53:1 76:4 schedule 64:14 77:2 school 156:17 173:18 175:1 176:3 science 10:5 12:6 18:4 42:8 49:12 53:21 155:18,22,22 156:2,4 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52:20 65:7 service 39:5 133:3 services 1:2,21 45:19 133:21 session 58:8 set 12:12 49:12 115:1 144:16 145:18 189:8 209:3 setting 12:24 25:21 28:1 50:18 51:22 52:1 144:7 seven 29:1 48:19,20 49:1 52:7 142:18 192:3 seventh 36:12 several 114:16 124:12 132:24 155:17,23 Severn 43:4 45:2 shafts 33:15 share 106:13 sheets 52:20 62:17 short 55:9 58:5 shorthand 211:22 show 24:18 38:20 61:20 62:22 66:9 78:4 103:5 112:15 124:19 160:19 163:20 170:22 174:3 showed 10:12 24:20 27:1 77:2 showing 17:11 38:21 shown 62:14 73:14 147:3 178:2 208:7 shows 15:14 198:18 shred 107:5 side 17:3 86:6 86:24 87:4 119:12 122:7 123:1 129:8 166:12,13 203:15,19 significance 21:23 22:12 188:5 significant 15:23 17:17 21:11 22:16 35:22 38:3 188:9 significantly 167:12 silent 108:19 similar 140:6 simple 194:12 simply 36:7 50:21 52:19 54:20 151:18 simulate 22:18 since 39:22 69:13 89:21 94:20 159:7 160:7 single 91:2 122:4 sir 8:15 9:14 10:1 13:20 16:13 18:12 21:13 23:13 24:20,24 26:9 26:20 27:1,6 27:16 28:22 37:11 39:6,24 44:15,18 45:5 45:16 48:21 81:17 82:17 84:17 90:4 126:14 131:16 134:8 139:3 139:15 140:23 141:24 143:7 151:11 152:13 159:3,16 177:19 178:4 179:23 180:21 181:2,7,21,24 182:1,22 184:22 185:8 187:9 189:21 190:3 193:22 194:6,18 196:6,10,16 196:16 201:19 208:9 sit 59:10 183:9 site 149:9,10,13 149:19 156:19 sitting 207:8 situation 184:4 185:6 situations 16:6 51:12 six 139:1 167:11 189:22 190:4,5,6,10 190:16,16 205:10 208:2 209:3 sixth 27:9,13,17 28:11,13,23 34:13 35:18 192:9 skin 133:7 SLPCBW 189:8 small 14:4 108:23 168:18 smarter 49:22 50:2 smoke 22:22 33:4,6,10 36:2 36:7,9,10,14 36:23 40:7 41:1 179:14 180:15 181:3 191:7 192:1 soil 46:21 47:10 47:22 55:13 56:1,9,18 127:9,11 solar 71:18 sold 26:4 solely 113:7 solid 58:15,24 59:3 solids 157:18 solve 25:19 106:3 some 10:8 19:23 32:5 46:4,11 49:6 54:23 59:14 73:13 83:8 85:16,18 98:11114:17 118:8 119:7 123:21 126:11 129:20,22 130:24 143:21 153:2 154:21 156:8,23 158:15 172:19 179:9 181:8 181:18 187:5 188:16,17 191:17,23 193:11 198:20 somebody 41:4 51:20 somehow 74:22 158:19 someone 31:18 37:19 156:15 something 31:1 39:7 45:2 49:9 68:12 152:16 156:17 185:5 sometimes 41:18 somewhat 6:8 12:11 somewhere 31:1 167:8,9 soot 33:4 38:15 38:18,21 39:1 39:4,7,11,15 39:20 40:2,7 41:11 42:4,13 42:15 179:14 180:2,15,17 180:24 181:3 181:20 191:7 sorry 8:2 18:15 22:4,6 35:16 62:6 66:8 67:7 72:13 75:4 77:18 86:2 95:6 104:9 109:13 116:12 119:2 131:11 137:3 141:8 142:6 144:13 198:8 205:1 sort 144:19 161:22 164:8 sorted 144:17 sorting 144:5 source 157:1 171:15,17 172:11 194:9 205:21 sources 152:11 south 2:19 166:13 173:17 175:1 176:3 speak 40:18 speaking 100:9 specialist 23:14 24:8 27:21 specialist's 29:9 specific 95:17 106:17,19 123:14 169:17 181:16 specifically 113:6 122:17 159:23 188:18 specification 107:4 specifications 54:24 91:9 101:19 specificity 62:5 93:3 specifies 46:6 56:17 speculation 148:3,21 182:13 speed 161:21 spell 8:16 spend 181:7,17 spent 76:6 115:22 116:18 116:24 117:22 119:1 181:3,5 spill 138:14 145:4 184:5 Split 44:16 spread 33:18 74:22 118:5,6 140:10 191:1 191:6 202:12 202:14 205:6 spreading 192:23 Spring 6:17 sprinklers 196:12,18 square 40:14 59:16 133:4 133:20,22 166:8,8 180:2 180:15 187:14 187:16 stable 49:18 stand 76:19 151:4 195:20 standard 46:5 53:7 54:6 55:14 56:3 137:22 138:6 138:10,15 145:4,7,13 179:6 186:22 188:2,8 standards 136:2 138:1 138:21 144:8 144:22 184:5 185:4 188:11 189:19,20 start 83:14 189:6 started 7:5 starting 157:9 state 1:5 8:15 29:7 31:20 76:9 79:1 82:14 101:18 102:3 106:14 123:19 158:12 158:13 186:3 186:8,12,20 187:2 188:7 197:20 199:17 199:21 stated 104:2 172:18 statement 117:19 states 1:6 30:9 30:12,14,18 133:17 134:15 134:21 184:18 State's 158:21 169:10,13 175:22 191:11 196:8,17 statistically 167:3 status 135:8 stay 134:9 step 209:1 steps 84:13 still 8:24 27:2 38:13 42:22 89:1 105:4 106:7 109:8 115:3 141:16 172:16 184:13 199:23 stood 114:8 142:5 storage 55:9 store 182:9 stored 55:11 56:15 57:13 57:17,18 165:6 storing 182:16 Street 2:19 3:6 3:15 4:4 strenuously 110:14 stricken 128:2 183:2 strike 75:22 117:18 124:24 125:12 strong 114:24 studies 49:14 study 175:17,22 sub 86:14,21 189:11 subdivision 86:13 subject 45:22 93:13 204:13 204:15 subjective 36:15 submit 145:12 submitted 146:13,15 substantive 183:6 subtotal 87:12 87:15 sued 110:16 suggest 50:1,2 90:12 97:17 suggested 101:15 suggesting 92:14 95:2 Suite 2:4 4:3 sum 88:3 177:22 summary 126:9 159:24 sun 14:19 23:11 supervision 89:1 211:22 supplied 110:15 185:24 188:20 supplv 111:19 support 106:15 supported 173:3 supposed 55:1 sure 11:3 32:18 54:21 68:19 100:24 107:14 145:24 166:15 surface 23:3,10 ESQUIRE DE POSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMONOQ60987 227 40:21 133:1 185:12 surfaces 34:16 35:23 37:17 38:12 133:5 133:23 187:15 187:17 189:9 194:10,14 SUSAN 4:2 sustained 54:12 60:17 64:19 75:24 79:16 82:7 85:10 115:15,17 117:9,20 119:9 120:4 120:10 121:4 121:20 122:6 123:7 129:3,4 130:4 131:7 146:10 148:13 149:4,14 208:4 system 33:8,14 33:20 36:21 196:1 T T 18:11 137:19 149:10 175:5 175:12 211:1 211:1 table 13:1,2 34:23 43:3 134:20 139:1 142:18 143:9 159:23 165:19 167:10 170:21 188:16 189:22 190:3,9,10,16 192:2 tables 157:10 tailored 113:22 take 7:23 16:6 20:24 28:6 54:14 58:3,5 69:3,7,10,23 74:21 83:6 106:1 107:16 115:15 135:15 168:3 176:22 196:19 taken 12:16 21:20,22 23:19 24:12 28:7 38:9,24 39:17 42:20 43:3 46:10 50:16 61:16 77:6 136:5 160:20 165:5 166:1,2,12,18 167:8,9 169:11,24 170:1 196:17 211:5 takes 141:5,8 taking 84:12 168:10 170:15 talk 33:3 40:22 59:9 60:8 102:24 132:5 134:10,11 140:17 184:4 talked 17:22 23:12 34:14 58:14 60:9,10 101:23 102:5 102:14 126:2 131:21 139:5 140:13,18 145:4 152:22 155:21 159:17 159:20 160:2 161:17,24 162:2 164:20 164:21 167:15 167:17,23 191:16 195:23 talking 9:12 37:20 49:17 51:8,18 54:17 77:20 86:8 99:1 110:9,12 111:23 112:23 121:6 122:18 131:24 134:8 137:18 138:23 155:19 158:10 163:11 164:5 166:6 167:7 168:8 169:5 201:6 207:6 talks 54:16 tape 205:22 TD 198:16 tear 90:7 147:5 147:13 tearing 76:5 techniques 181:15 TEDFORD 3:12 teU 11:18 12:13 13:19 20:13 21:12 32:8 39:7,14 40:1 41:11,19 42:3 42:14 46:1 91:19 148:15 183:20 184:2 184:24 185:2 188:1 193:8 198:23 telling 36:14 42:16 188:7 tells 7:9 21:14 temperature 10:8,19,21 11:22 12:5 13:8,9,10,11 14:1,18,20 16:16,18,22 17:7,24 18:7 18:11 19:21 20:19,22 21:10 55:4 57:14 temperatures 15:11 19:17 21:1,5,9 55:1 55:8 ten 32:10 133:19 153:10 185:11 tenth 16:20 Teresa 1:18 211:15 term 40:17,17 55:9 167:4,21 176:6 terms 22:12 28:12 33:20 48:11 68:4 138:18,20 terrible 180:17 test 13:5 14:8 14:15 15:4,5 16:8 20:14,17 22:18,21 41:11159:24 164:15 tested 12:16 21:5 91:7,13 98:15 100:23 101:3 107:5 testified 7:14 60:21 78:20 102:15,21 113:8 116:23 135:5 138:8 154:20 156:11 163:9 166:7 169:1 171:14 171:16 173:22 177:16 178:13 179:24 204:2 testify 47:5 104:17 149:3 testifying 41:15 61:1 64:18 65:5 81:8 204:18 testimony 1:12 5:2 30:16,23 31:15 33:10 35:20 40:5,12 41:13 43:21 60:16 61:7 79:4,12,14 80:4,18 81:5 91:8 92:24 93:14,18 96:2 97:18 98:6 101:2 102:11 102:18 103:12 104:12,14 105:1,2 107:11 112:10 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years 23:19 24:13 39:11 48:19,20 49:1 51:7 52:7 57:11 85:3 135:20 154:22 175:15 184:15 184:17 186:6 187:19 114:13 178:16 yesterday 11:7 179:1 14:17 23:12 1.7 90:21 27:1 34:22 1:30 69:8,10 35:1 83:23 10th 141:20 132:8 139:5 143:4 140:14 167:16 10.000 187:15 167:16 10:15 1:17 young 6:10 100 133:4,9,20 YOUNGBLOOD 133:21,22 3:4 135:2 102 21:4 Z 103 21:4 zaggy 20:9 104.6 20:21 zig 20:9 11 6:20 11th 35:24 36:5 $ 36:10 37:4,9 $1 92:797:14 97:22 99:3 102:3 115:22 116:24 117:22 197:21 199:21 $1.2 181:5,7,17 $1.4 98:5 $1.7 88:14 94:17 $10,000 127:23 $100,000 60:10 61:4 $200,000 128:1 201:11,13 $213,000 118:23 $214,000 200:21 201:2 $289,000 116:16 $3 114:4 $3,706 199:13 199:15,19 $470,000 75:6 $5,600 65:17,19 $829,000 116:10 $868,000 61:12 64:9 67:21 72:16 76:14 89:22 96:24 97:10 98:1 114:10 130:22 177:17,20 201:18,22 $914,850 94:13 37:23 38:8 141:21 143:4 165:23 11:00 209:6 12th 141:21 143:5 121.8 16:17 123 2:19 16:9 1260 143:14 173:19,23 174:4,5,9,24 175:9 190:4 1260s 139:13 1262 161:3 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71:23 2228F 209:10 210:13,14 228 61:21 62:3 85:20,21 86:8 23 143:5 23.000 141:23 142:21 24 139:18 24.000 141:22 24,870 139:22 250.000 30:21 26 86:17 87:10 87:12 139:18 26.000 141:21 143:4 26,720 139:24 261-6474 2:13 27 87:8 27.000 141:20 28 35:3 87:9 140:19 143:5 164:24 190:7 190:17,21 191:2 28th 141:19 28.000 141:19 141:19 142:14 142:20 284 116:15 284.000 75:11 29 143:5 29.000 142:21 3 3 132:17 3,787 159:20 160:16 3-1 16:6 17:4 17:19,21,22 3-2 16:6 19:8,9 3-3 17:4 3.2 159:15 195:9 30 21:9 30th 6:2,7 300 30:24 31.000 143:4 32 198:4,9 32.000 143:3 36 190:5 192:6 192:11,12 36.000 143:3 374 15:17 3800 160:8 4 4 73:6 78:4 4.000 16:10 160:19 4,395 16:14 4-1 19:8,9,10 4-2 21:3 4:10 210:17 40 153:2 400 2:4 412 2:13 4395 16:12 453 1:15 470 116:14 4900 4:3 __ 5 5.000 23:18 24:11 159:1,5 5,600 65:20,21 50 30:8,12,14 133:3 169:2 500.000 179:11 53 66:4 55.000 166:8 6 6 86:4 98:21 6th 140:24 141:10,13 142:21,22 60.000 166:8 64 164:12 640 19:4 64051 2:5 65 164:12 66 164:16 67 164:16 68 164:16 69,000 141:1 7 7th 141:18 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES TOWOLDMON0060990 143:2 75.000 75:15 116:16 76.000 75:14 772-7452 2:21 7800 65:22 8 8 84:5 133:16 8th 6:16 143:3 816 2:6 836-5050 2:6 86.000 142:21 860-247-3666 3:17 864-7000 3:8 868 60:12,13 67:10 76:16 77:19 868.000 60:18 72:4 112:12 178:4 179:2 9 9th 141:19 143:3 9,000 66:4 914,850 89:2 95 44:5,6,7 161:2 96 160:11 161:2 161:13 97 161:13 981-5770 4:6 988-9191 1:24 99 182:5 996 83:20 230 # ESQUIRE DE POSITION SERVICE TOWOLDMONOQ60991