Document 37b3dYDrrXRx0B1YvKNpwpMgD

FILE NAME: Keene (KNE) DATE: 1983 DOC#: KNE001 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: 1983 Excerpt from Legal Deposition of John McCallister with page of BC notes /S y ^didjML / q f ' fyfi Z d Z h f y a /9 f z - / $ 7? y jrt-O^Z' cJy.U/'/^'^-y't'L^ Z Z)-~i'`Xj--`-'- (7(_ ^ pt~~l L O-'~ 7/ X i A p lty-n^'\ f /yUrtL'V'Mlstis TteUf (j"llvy /lo > /) J ' (Z) ^^-v 7^. J^ x j / - J 7 sr-C /AUA>-/ y/cs^/i 7/ ypfo/c y , /ba*, XyLiXiJ. Z Z/s& q f p o X ^ y P y {/9) / n , , -(i/flMiU'ttC'i*! ^'fv&tujj'fX-di Pf, a,f^J?k w w u o X & M & j '^c#H. ^C (jZAYisK, 'L/fy) 1/ n. <f7 &U^ Tld'j fc) r'y -'' C<,yfyyv^vz (Xf m J A > ' y ICL-. - ^7c / ^ 5 ^ a //5 5 " 5? V7 / ID^I u i I - Z Z CJ ZCJ T b d 9 y y / x p > "c 'ai'&xt r<i)&&Xz-Zc a7-,o ^ t u 'f, 3 x P S ,ye. ( t y^l 3 % U c X AaS & J /ij 1 ^ :> > - r i t Z JZ 7 3.-> :'f JPtyyey.--n S'C- ,4- jpf^L ^ M ^ T i x v y >y^i^><Cu if~ % ypZy r s? , ' y x L^t . /Z p/uj^ CdrAy > 7 yty^t^-^yx p * - ' '4-' 4 x'7' ^7 / y y Tk ^er> . /fi-l c Ac3 2 y < 3p r ^ - .. U y d Z u i t f ^ 3 k J 3 > u ^ i f ^ ^ 9 z d t 7 y^) ^ ^ /7i7 r7 / ^ 5 7 y^ ? ^r yf^P d ` l s 'y ' 33 ya Pz <jy a p h -^ '*uL'UuAP-P-*A.dj.-Ay cA-'^y ylP.it u-i-yy&// y y, ...y i-C^iJy< C. ~P-r Jtd^Cp y i . ^ Y'/t.yy y P - y J t + a p f 3 oy^J? ysi ^ y Z &yy~o^d!*t ) 1 2 tzMt$dyOp&4'y\sjt?^Z^a yPjiyJP<Ay. y y ,:r-y' K~l yi'~6y cjZutfX" /(Mj pQ (fcpit&j J y h j Z jijli'pA ,-; Jp k y W w y v l J i ' i.(./), M / i t i t a M y 3 p t t ^ y * - . vl-4'/!'7:) y x- y k ' f i c ' X I ^ u p t e X y ^ - Q Pypxp p 4 >^ X ^ ,yx -y y d y i o X a ^ ^ P p 3&o d _x/Xypy^^.'' /9 3 P IN t h e u n i t e d s t a t e s d i s t r i c t c o u r t t o r THE E A S T E R N D I S T R I C T OF V I R G I N I A NORFOLK AND NEWPORT NEWS DIVISIONS ALL ASBESTOS CASE C.P. NO. 77-1 MASSACHUSETTS ASBESTOS CASES MASSACHUSETTS MULTIPLE LITIGATION NOS. 1 and 2 ( M . B . l . N o s . 1 a n d 2) UNITED STATES DISTRICT C O U R T , D I S T R I C T OF MASSACHUSETTS ,C. IN RE 1 1 1 2 1 A 1 5 KEY HIGHWAY, FAIRFIELD AND SPARROWS POINT S H I P Y A H D S -ASBESTOS CASES B .M .L . NO. 1 (ALL CASES) UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT, D I S T R I C T OF . MARYLAND I ! io |.H E L E N k. GAL I A RD I, i n d i v i d u a l l y , and as 17 ' t ^ e c u t r i * of the E s t a t e of 'JOHN C. G A L I A R D I , 1 i Plaintiff, against ,f1A N V IL L E C O R P O R A T I O N , 2 Civ. 0oU4 UNITED COURT, OF NEW STATES DISTRICT EASTERN DISTRICT YORK 22 et al De fe n d a n t s 23 2a 25 40C MARKET STREET/IOTh El OOR PHILADELPHIA PA 1910C K n i P COMEft PUCXIPTEJ PHONES 1215)9? 9300 Out of p a to ll f r f f iju y i John McAllister 1 6 1 2 3 STIPULATION 4 5 (It is h e r e b y s t i p u l a t j T by and 6 among Counsel for the respe ive parties 7 that c e r t i f i c a t i o n and f i ng are w a i v e d , and that-all objec' , except as to the 9 form of q u e s t i o n s J ived until the time 1 n of trial.) i i 1 ? SCHMIDT Are there any other 1 3 ts or s t i p u l a t i o n s that s h o u l d be 1 A eco rd? 1 r. MR. SILBERT: Off the record. 1 6 (Whereupon discussions were held 1 ? off the record from 9:14 a.m. to 9:15 a.m..) 1 S 1 9 20 Q. Sir, would you please state your name 21 a n d a d d r e s s for the r e c o r d ? - 22 A. My n a m e is J o h n D. M c A l l i s t e r , M - C - A - L ~ L " I " S ~ T " 23 E-R. My a d d r e s s is 1 4 7 V W o o d a c r e s D r i v e , M o u n t a i n s i d e , 24 N e w J e r s e y , 0 7 0 9 2 . 25 - '-ii. I IIIIII|iM ' T T II I j ii ii<m I...... lias M ill lilif ni i i n 400 MARKET STREET/10TH FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 Ir PHONES r -- KMPfS-COHin RMOCIftTU <215.9?b 9300 tS i; OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-600 523-4656 John McAllister 1 7 1 PgTn n yt v n l a - c a sss-- e n * y i 6 % h r "3 P 8 3 '** 2 correct? 3 A. That 1s correct. A Q. Have you given a deposition regarding 5 a s b e s t o s r e l a t e d B a t t e r s at any other t ib e , her 6 than that deposition? 7 A. Not to the best of my memory. 8 Q. Sir, coola you briefly descr/be your 9 e m p l o y m e n t h i s t o r y f r o m t h e t i m e thfit y o u left 'C s c h o o l a n d put in the a p p r o p r i a t ay d a t e s ? ii ja . To s i m p l i f y n a t t e r s , / w o u l d s u g g e s t that 1C I g i v e y o u a c o p y of my resyfne 13 IQ. Z w i l l s h o w you j d o c u m e n t and ask if you 1* can i d e n t i f y t h a t 1^ A . I 16 Q . I can. What is 17 A. That 1 8 MR. SCHMIDT: I would like to have 1 9 is m a r k e d as E x h i b i t 1, p l e a s e . 20 ( W h e r e u p o n e x h i b i t H c M I t *t*ir * l `;a s 21 B a r k e d for i d e n t i f i c a t i o n p u r p o s e s , as of 22 _t h j ^__rlflt r W a r r h -in | .1.QR 3 1 23 BY M R . S C H M I D T : 2 A g. I understand, Mr. McAllister, from your 25 resume t h a t y o u w e r e e m p l o y e d by O w e n s - I l l i n o i s f r o m h I oc m a r k e t STREET/'OTH f l o o r ' Ph il a d e l p h ia p a 19106 M l f U iOHM ftWOCIRTU phones John McAllister 18 1 1948 to 1952? 2 A. T h a t 's c o r r e c t . 3 Q. And/ subsequently/ you were employed by 4 Ehret Magnesia/ Baldw1n-Ehret-Hill and Keene 5 C o r po ra ti on from 1952 up until 1970? 6 Ja . Let us back track just a second, the start of 7 {employment with Owens-Illinois was 1947, not 1948. I i 8 In a n s w e r to your, last q u e s t i o n , yes, I was e m p l o y e d ] I 9 j;by E h r e t M a g n e s i a a n d t h e s u c c e s s o r c o r p o r a t i o n s TO t h r o u g h J u l y of 1 9 7 0 . 11 q . Mr. McAllister, when did you first become 1 ? iIauare of t h e d i s e a s e p r o c e s s a s b e s t o s l s ? 1 3 A. As a p o s s i b l e d i s e a s e p r o c e s s , I b e c a m e aware 1 4 jof it w h e n I w a s w o r k i n g for O w n e s - 1 1 1 i n o i s , as an 1 :> i o u t s h o o t f r o m the k n o w n h a z a r d s of s i t i c o s i s r e s u l t i n g | 1 6 ifrom i n h a l a t i o n of c r y s t a l l i n e silica partic l e s . i 1 7 Iq . And w h e n , if at a l l , d i d y o u f i r s t b e c o m e 12 'ware of research regarding lung diseases that were 1 9 :d o n e at t h e S a r a n a c L a b o r a t o r i e s in N e w Y o r k ? 20 A. In my e m p l o y m e n t at O w e n s - I l l i n o i s , there were 21 p e r i o d i c s t a f f m e e t i n g s at w h i c h w e r e r e p o r t e d 22 r e s e a r c h and d e v e l o p m e n t r e s u l t s and f i n d i n g s . One 23 S u c h r e p o r t i n v o l v e d a b r i e f s u m m a r y of an o n - g o i n g ' 24 i n v e s t i g a t i o n i n v o l v i n g p o t e n t i a l r e s p i r a t o r y h a z a r d s 25 r e s u l t i n g f r o m i n h a l i n g d i a t o m a c e o u s e a r t h , w h i c h was 400T h1 ade5JphiaTpa9 ^ OOR Ic. KAIPtt < O H M A U O C M T t J ks; O UTO F P A TO LLFR E E 1-600 523-! John McAllister 19 1 one of the calcium silicate raw M at er ia l s used in the 2 Berlin kaylo manufacturing operation. 3 Q. What did you do while you were at O w e n s U I l l i n o i s to f a m i l i a r i z e yours e l f with the raw 5 materials used there? 6 'A. I was hired as a plant chem i s t to start up 7 Ithe S a y r e v i l l e Pl a n t at some p o i n t in the f u t u r e . I 8 j.As p l a n t c h e m i s t / , my a r e a s of r e s p o n s i b i l i t y w e r e ? raw m a t e r i a l s c h a r a c t e r i s t i c s and c o n trol/ as they TO m i g h t I 11 affect the process and product characteristics. I made fairly extensive literature 12 s e a r c h e s on all raw m a t e r i a l s u s e d in t h e p r o c e s s . 1 3 AirJ d i d - t h a e p r a e i e e l un l IH 131 "Bim li juu u no^ 11* e m p l o y e d by E h r e t M a g n e s i a as to t h e raw mat^ l s 1 I I 15 used in t h e i r p r o d u c t i o n p r o c e s s ? I MR. LEDWITH: O b j e c t i o n . MR. SCH>rtT: What's the basis? M8^LEDWITH: Leading question. I obi. to the form of the q u e s t i o n . MS. KAHN: I also object to the 22 BY MR . S C H M I D T : 23 Q. W e l l , w h a t d i d y o u do w h i l e -- w h a t / if 2U a n y t h i n g # d i d y o u do w h i l e at E h r e t M a g n e s i a a n d 25 l e a l d w i n - E h r e t - H i l l a n d K e e n e C o r p o r a t i o n to f a m i l i a r i z e ; 400 MARKET STREET/10TH FLOOR Ph il a d e l p h i a Pa iei06 ^ PHONES KftIPf COMCn AUCXMTO 121519289300 IS S OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-600-523-4656 John McAllister 20 1 u r t e l f u l t h t h e r e x m a t e r i a l s u s e d ? 2 , My initial hiring at Ehret M a g n e s i a was _ 3 >r t h e p u r p o s e of p u t t i n g t h e m i n t o t h e c a l c i u u ilicate business, using a forming and molding 5 rocess licensed to them by Pabco I n s u l a t i o n s . That 6 olding process was very sensitive to raw m at erials 7 h a r a c t e r i s t i c s . In an att e m p t to d e v e l o p a v i a b l e cr o l d i n g p r o c e s s f-or c a l c i u m s i l i c a t e in t h a t p l a n t , 9 made very extensive, not only literature researches, to ut e x p e r i m e n t a l t r i a l r u n s of b a t c h e s in a p i l o t 1 1 lant s u p p l i e d to me by Ehr e t M a g n e s i a for a p e r i o d of 1 : b o u t f o u r y e a r s p r i o r to c o m m e r c i a l p r o d u c t i o n of 13 he T h e r m o s i l p r o d u c t line. 1 . Nov, in the c o u r s e of that e x t e n s i v e 1 i t e r a t u r e r e s e a r c h , w h i c h you d e s c r i b e d , to what 16 .*te n t , if at a l l , d i d y o u b e c o m e a w a r e of r e p o r t s 1? ;oncerning asbestos related diseases emanating from 1 outh Africa? 19 \m Time period, a p p r o x i m a t e l y 1955 to 1957 or 2 0 56, there beg.n to .ppe.r in the liter.tyre, . r ti c l. s 21 bout c h i l d r e n in S o u t h t r i e , p l a y i n g on o i i t e itte du.pt .nd luch Children h.ving .n unutu.lly high incidence of retpir.tory preble.t. r r r T r T o ^ r ^ r r r a i ,j j - - - T P" n t - T l i T ...... ............ .. I t r uT f r i U un U u t X MARKET s t r e e t m o t h f l o o r Ph i l a d e l p h i a p a 191O6 PHONES f c . K A IP fl-lO M in RJJCXIATU (215)926-9300 Im p OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-60O-S?3-f6 John McAllister 31 1 Q. Now, Z understand you started with Ehret 2 Magnesia 1n 1952? 3 A. That Is c o r r e c t . 4 Q. Could you d es cr ib e the nature of your 5 Initial duties at Ehret Magn e s i a ? i 6 |A. t I was hired under the job titl e , D i r e c t o r of i 7 R e s e a r c h , which was a m i s n o m e r as events later p r o v e d . S In point of fact, for the first three and half years 9 of my e m p l o y m e n t w i t h E h r e t M a g n e s i a , X s e r v e d as 10 a Research and Development Engineer building and 11 supervising the o p e r a t i o n of a pilot plant to produce 12 c a l c i u m s i l i c a t e a n d to p u t E h r e t M a g n e s i a I n t o the 13 calcium silicate business, using the Pabco 14 patented molding process. 15 q . And how long were these your duties? 1 6 ;a . A p p r o x i m a t e l y t h r e e a nd a half y e a r s as is 1 7 'I i n d i c a t e d 1 n ny r e s u m e . 13 Q. And, where did you perform those duties? 19 A. In the Ehret M a g n e s i a Plant at V a l l e y Forge. 20 q . And to w h a t e x t e n t , if at all , w o u l d y o u h a v e 21 h a d o c c a s i o n to v i s i t t h e p r o d u c t i o n a r e a s of t h e 22 E h r e t M a g n e s i a P l a n t at V a l l e y F o r g e at t h i s - 23 d u r i n g t h i s t i m e ? 24 A. My o f f i c e was i m m e d i a t e l y a d j a c e n t to the 25 m o l d f l o o r . T h e p i l o t p l a n t w a s 1n t h a t s a m e p o r t i o n t ` 400 MARKET STREET/10TH FLOOR ! Ph il a d e l p h ia p a 19106 PHONES KflIPCS-COMER AHOCIRTtf (?1SI 926 9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-4656 John McAllister 32 1 of the plenty one floor above the old floor and one 2 floor below the aixlng floor/ which were superimposed 3 on each other. Z o bv i o u s l y / in the eourse of . A y daily activities/ visited both the mold floor/ ! 5 |lmy o f f i c e a n d t h e p i l o t p l a n t . I] i 6 jj W h e n the pilot plant was in o p e r a t i o n / I; 7 j'the p r o d u c t p r o d u c e d w a s put t h r o u g h t h e n o r m a l p l a n t |idrying e q u i p m e n t and was cut in the n o r m a l plant i !!f i n i s h i n g e q u i p m e n t . 1n q . And did you have occasion to observe the o p e r a t i o n of that e q u i p m e n t ? 12 |A . I d id . 13 i q . Now, what p r o d u c t s were made at the Valley 1A |!F o r g e P l a n t d u r i n g t h a t r o u g h l y t h r e e a n d a h a l f 15 years that we're talking about? 1 6 |a . 85% magnesia/ Ehret's tradename was 17 T hermalite, T - H - E - R - M - A - L - I - T - E , "d insulating I 1 c e m e n t . I 1 9 There was additionally, for a very 20 ibrief p e r i o d of t i m e , a l i n e of a s b e s t o s g a s k e t s i 21 jmade at t h a t p l a n t . 22 0 . The Thermalite was that both pipe covering 23 land b l o c k ? 2 A iA . Il 25 i. Yes. | i Now, of those p r o d u c t s that you have mentioned,! . 4OC m a r k e t STREET/IO Th f l o o r j Ph i l a d e l p h i a PA 1 9 '0 6 KfIPtf COMEn AWCXIRTfJ PHONES (2151 9?B 9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-600 5?3-*&i>6 I John McAllister 33 1 w h i c h of t h o s e p r o d u c t s , if a n y , - c o n t a i n e d a s b e s t o s 2 at that point in tiae? 3 A. L. They all contained asbestos. -Af>d w h at-- t ype-- a-f-- fid t h e y c m 5 A. Both aaosite and chrysotile. 6 Q. And what were the sources of that aaosite/ 7 and chrysotile? 8 A. E s s e n t i a l l y , the same as I've d e s c r i b e d as b e i n g the s o u r c e s for O w e n s - I l l i n o i s . T c h r y s o t i le 1O a s b e s t o s c a n e f r o n d o m e s t i c a n d C a n a d i a n s o u r c e s , 1 1 c o B B o n at the tiae, which were J o h n % ^ M a n v i l l e , 1? National Gypsun and Ruberoid. 1 3 The amosite asbestos cane from Cape 14 A s b e s t o s , T u r n e r - N e wa l l , N o / t h A m e r i c a n A s b e s t o s or 15 o t h e r b r o k e r s . 1 6 Q. Now, other th^n a s b e s t o s , what other types of 17 raw m a t er i a l s were 18 that t i n e ? e d at the V a l l e y Forge Plant at 19 A . For 8 Magnesia production, magnesium oxide 20 was used. A / w e t t i n g agent d i s p e r s a n t c a l l e d 21 N a r i s p e r s e / w a s u s e d . For t h e a s b e s t o s g a s k e t o p e r a t i o n , 22 a s b e s t o y c lo t h , w h i c h was p r i m a r i l y s p i n n i n g g r a y 23 c h r y s o t i l e was u s e d , a l o n g w i t h r u b b e r b a s e d c e m e n t s of 24 o n y s o r t or a n o t h e r . 25 s' ii ii in j irn i iii ii "H i .......... -hr ashcfgc 400 MARKET STREET/IOTh f l o o r Ph il a d e l p h ia p a t9 i0 6 L. PHONES E - KMPfl COHin AJJCXIATU (215)928-9300 St OUT O r PA TOLL FREE 1-800 523-4856 John McAllister 36 1 BY MR. SCHMIDT: 2 ITc H -/ lie I 'ttu v g r M i e nt A g e n c i e s r e y u u 3 speaking? A A. A l l of t h e G o v e r n m e n t A g e n c i e s w h i c h i i 'sed 5 thermal Insulations. These Included Navy J*rds and 6 d o c k s , N a v y f a c i l i t i e s , t h e C o a s t G u a rjfl G S A a n d o t h e r 7 G o v e r n m e n t A g e n c i e s i n v o l v e d in h?/in. c o n s e r v a t i o n 8 system within their b uilding* equipment. o To w h a t e x t e n t , > Y at a l l , were t h e a s b e s t o s 1C c o n t a i n i n g p r o d u c t s so^d by Ehret M a g n e s i a to the 1 1 Na v y in the e a r l y v ^ 9 5 0 ' s for use o n b o a r d Na v a l 12 1 3 not quite sure I understand that 1u quest iXn 1 5 Okay. 1 6 We u t-fl-- y aw M s t a t e i l, p L l A i.c 17 Q. The products that were sold to the Navy, 1 8 whe r e were they to be used? * 19 A. In the case of p ro du ct s served to Naval 20 f a c i l i t i e s a n d Y a r d s a n d d o c k s a g e n c i e s / the p r o d u c t s 21 w o u l d h a v e b e e n u s e d e i t h e r a b o a r d s h i p or at s h o r e 22 b a s e d o p e r a t i o n s of the N a v y . 23 -Q t)n. r r ) 1 ii- l i i v irs t h e p r o c e s s bj^ 2 A t h e s e v a r i o u s a s b e s t o s c nut i> i11 iirTfiri a t e r i a l s well, 25 l e t j y-n~s~f~~T j it ** Y n " -- t4we-- T h e r m i l itft ar ri T H * l , , 00 m a r k e t STREET/10TH f l o o r Ph il a d e l p h ia p a i b i 06 L. phones H niPfl COMIft ftUOCMTtJ IS*?*-:* IS OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-600-S?3-*eS6 John McAllister 39 1 m n u M H j i ha i i `uvffiu n y i i n m r r - r u 2 c o n v e y o r . The c o n v e y o r fed those c y l i n d e r s throufl 3 e b e n d s e v / which s i m u l t a n e o u s l y t r ia a ed both en0 1 o f 9 t h e p r o d u c t , e n d t h e n t h a t t h i r t y - s i x i n c h laiftg ' /? 5 cylinder was fed longitudinally through another 6 // bandsaw, which cut the cylinder into tyo half 7 cylinders. ^ 8 .Those two half cy l i n d e r s were t'j 9 then j a c k e t t e d by a an u s i n g /canvas as an outer , $ 10 wrap around, to hold the two half sections 11 together. Once the jacket had been Installed on that 1? p i e c e of p i p e c o v e r i n g , it was put in a ca r t o n . The / t 13 c a r t o n s e a l e d a n d vs h i p p e d . 1 9 The block triaaing operation involved A` 1 5 t a k i n g a s e r-iV e s of b l o c k f r o a t h e d r y e r c a r s , / 1 6 sticking ithe* up on a b an ds aw table and end triaaing 1 7 t h e m eif m a s s e in f u l l c a r t o n q u a n t i t i e s . A f t e r w h i c h , 18 e n d / r i a a i n g that carton q ua nt i ty of block was put 1 9 a carton. The carton sealed and sent to the 20 Ouse fo Rip-plug -- 21 Q. And w h a t t y p e of d u s t c o n t r o l e q u i p m e n t , if 22 a n y , d i d y o u o b s e r v e at t h e V a l l e y F o r g e P l a n t in 23 the e a r l y 1 9 3 0 ' s? 29 A. Dust co ll ec t in g eq ui pm e nt per se was used 25 for d u s t c o n t r o l o n the a i x i n g f l o o r in th e a s b e s t o s 400 m a r k e t STREET/10TH FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 L- PHONES b KflIPCI COHin AUO<lftTtl (? IE I 926-9300 S5K OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800 523-F6E6 John McAllister 40 1 c o n v e y o r nd f i b e r i t l n g arts -- 2 -- ' ** "" MIT. l CUU'I 111 Wh a t w a s t h a ' f 3 word? 4 THE W I T N E S S : F i b e r i z i n g . I '* / s o r r y , 5 I'm having m o u t h tro u b l e at the n o s e n t . ,v# jF 6 In t h e f i n i s h i n g o p e r a t.,f*on, a i r d u s t 7 Cr` c o n t r o l a r o u n d t h e e n d t r i m (* n d l o n g i t u d i n a l c s p l i t t i n g s a w s w a s a l s o iji' u s e . 9 A d d i t i o n a l l y , / ( s p i r a t o r s in g e n e r a l , / 1 J of t h e s u r g i c a l masri{ n u i s a n c e d u s t t y p e , w e r e in use by some of the e m p l o y e e s in both areas. 1? BY MR. SCHMIDT: 13 Q . Now, was tne dust collecting equipment that 1 y o u ' v e d e s c r i b e d , A. hat w a s a s u c t i o n t y p e of 13 equipment? / 16 A . 1 7 Yes J/ / MR. LEDWITH : Obj ect ion. 13 BY MR. SC^IIDT: 19 Q. /How did that dust collecting equipment 20 o pe r a t / , w h a t was the g e n e r a l p r i n c i p l e on w h i c h it 21 w o r k ? 22 A. / A hood on which negative pressure was 23 i / o s e d by a s u c t i o n fan p u l l i n g in a m b i e n t air a c r o s s 2 ^ ie f a c e of t h e w o r k a r e a up i n t o t h e d u s t 25 l e C t i n g - - up i n t o t h e till* hwmri flnrl 40C m a r k e t STREET/10TH FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 ^ PHONES E b K/llPfl COHin AUCXIftTtl (2151 9?B 9300 iTeS' OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-600-523-4656 John McAllister 41 1 r oa t im e tm u 1 b A ft T y p A I Ir 2 Q* A n d , If I u n d e r s t a n d y o u r t e s t i m o n y 3 correctly, that dust collector was dust collecting U e q u i p m e n t in the e a r l y 1 9 5 0 's in both the init i a l 5 phases of the m a n u f a c t u r i n g p r o c e s s and in the 6 finishing operation? 7 That's correct 8 o MS. KAH N : Ob j ec t ^ - ^ l i e form. 1 C THE UXTNES^*^There was dust collecting 1 I e q u i p m e n t e i x 'f h a t p o i n t in t i m e , as X i:* p r e v i^lTs ly s t a t e d , b o t h o n t h e m i x i n g f l o o r 13 1L IY MR . 1 3 ' Now, was the d ust c o l l e c t i n g e q u i p m e n t at 16 ither location modified during the time that you were 17 t the Valley Forge Plant? 1 Yes, sir, during the period of time when the 19 lant was being modified to accept a calcium silicate 20 p e r a t i o n a l o n g s i d e of the m a g n e s i a o p e r a t i o n , a d d i - 21 ional equipment was installed on the mixing or batch . 22 l o o r . T h a t a d d i t i o n a l e q u i p m e n t c o n s i s t e d of a 23 ew h o o d at the a s b e s t o s u n l o a d i n g are a a h e a d of the 2L s b e s t o s m i l l , a s e p a r a t e c y c l o n e c o l l e c t o r for use wi t h 25 calcium silicate mixing operation, and also 400 m a r k e t STREET/tOTM FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 KAIPCf COHin ftUOCIftTCJ PHONES (?1SI9?6 9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-600-523-4656 John M c A l l i s t e r 44 Sn' ***' ollne operated indu.tn.i cleaner uih a l.rS e b.g f U ,r. ,, type v.cuu. >nly to a t r a l g h t run I k u . y j , it .as not u s e a b l e in t h e c o n g e s t e d a r e a s of , h , p t , n t . A n d jn T e a s , the h o u s e k e e p i n g c o n t i n u e d to be by n a n u a l l y perated push brooms. * o 11 1 2 1 3 1 . 1 5 1 c 1 7 1 3 1 9 20 21 22 23 ' Can , o u **e s c r i be in a l i t t l e . o r e d e t a i l , t h e Cu r , of your d u t i e s in getting Ehret M a g n e s i a into e c a l c i u m sili c a t e business and the o p e r a t i o n of he pilot plant, to w h i c h you r e f e r r e d ? ^ H R I FnWTi MR. SCHMIOT: On what basi f MR. SCHMIDT: MR. LEDWITH: Too g e ^ T a l. Do you u n d e r ^ ^ T o the q u e s t i o n ? I t h i n J i ^ d o , but let me s t a r t a n d if you iv e fur, r q u e s t i o n s , I ' m s u r e y o u w i l l ask t h e m As I s tated e a r l i e r , i was hired p r i m a rily put Ehret Magnesia into the calcium silicate s m e s s . I was hired based on my previous experience- th O w e n s - I l l i n o i s in p r o d u c i n g c a l c i u m s i l i c a t e . The rst three and a half years of my employ with ret M a g n e s i a , as I said e a r l i e r , i n v o l v e d r e s e a r c h i n g v m a t e r i a l s in an MARKET STREET/10TH f l o o r Ph il a d e l p h ia p a o io e attempt to develop a raw ma te ri al s KAIPCJ-COHCft a j j c x ir t u PHONES <?1S|9?B-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE l -600 S?3-4fe56 John McAllister 45 formulation through pilot plant vork that met the .oldln, r e Q u I r t i t n t i of thr p.bco U c . n U n s rauip.cnt. '* t h . tl.e produced c o p . e r e l . U y .cc.pt.bl. " 4 Final product calcium silicate. 5 D u r i n g the course of this three and 6 i half years, I utilized a small pilot plant immediately 7 nder the m i x i n g f l o o r in the V a l l e y F o r g e P l a n t , S ihich was ope ra te d by an u ns killed l a b o u r * ho mixed 9 mall e x p e r i m e n t a l bat c h e s of calcium silicate 1D s l u r r y , m o l d e d th e m , i n d u r a t e d them in the pilot 1 1 Plant and then dried them in the plant drying 12 e q u i p m e n t . F i n i s h e d t h e m in the p l a n t f i n i s h i n g 13 e q u i p m e n t a n d t e s t e d t h e m w i t h the p l a n t t e s t i n g 1A equipment. 1 r. 1 6 That's adequate detail. ThankX7ou. 1 7 Now, to what ext^fCt, if at all, did you 1S recommend that that i n d i v i d u s e any special 19 e q u i p m e n t in p e r f o r m i n a / f n o s e d u ties? 20 MBrt L E D W I T H : O b j e c t i o n . 21 MR. SCHMIDT : What basis? 22 MR. LEDWITH: Form. 23 MR. SCHMIDT: What about the form? 2 U 1R . I f n u T T u - Tr't Irarfinr; BY MR. SCHMIDT: 400 m a r k e t s t r e e t / io t h f l o o r Ph i l a d e l p h i a p a 191O6 (fc K / m r c o + i f n a u o c m t c i phones (2151926-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-600 523-4656 2 4 5 '* 6 1,1 111B 1111 1 1 -- " bt s p e c i a l e q u i p m e n t , j1< d i t tl,,t i n d i v i d u a l u s e in the c o u r s e of t h o s e 7 duties? s !* , h , t *" b e c a u s e he u a s r e s p o n s i b l e for V |:mi x i ng b a t c h e s , t h e i n g r e d i e n t s of u h i c h u e r , h a t a r d o u s I . 1C jin n a t u r e w a s i n s t r u c t e d to w e a r a r e s p i r a t o r of 1 * Ipneu.ocononic resistance for such airborne dust 1 2 Iprotection. He was also instructed to wear 13 goggles and rubber gloves. 1 4 ! The r e a s o n that he was i n s t r u c t e d to I ' 1 5 do t h a t w a s t h a t of the r a w m a t e r i a l s u s e d in the 1 6 experimental batches, these hazards existed. A powdered 1 7 sodium silicate was one of the ingredients. I t 's 1 8 h i g h l y caustic in natu r e . A silica flour was used. 1 p The known hazards of si l i c o s i s were apparent. Asbestos 20 fiber was used and the p o t e n t i a l hazards of a s b e s t o s i s 21 e r e r e c o g n i z e d by me. L i m e was u s e d and it is a l s o 22 caustic and alkaline and presents a skin hazard. 23 For those p u r p o s e s , he was i n s t r u c t e d 24 jto u s e p r o t e c t i v e c l o t h i n g a n d r e s p i r a t o r s . 25 A j h i - H W O n o . - Hui e to t|rik-e-- e a 400 MARKET STREET/IOTM FLOOR Ph il a d e l p h ia p a 19106 KftIPtJ-COHfn RUCXIfcTU l?15|928 9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-600 523-4656 .. ( I ( BY MR. S C H MIDT: To vh.t . . t e n t . If ,, , u , .ny ,p # e U l i equi poe n t used b y . t h a t i n d i v i d u a l in th, f i n i s h i n g ? |operation to w h ich you r eferred? 11 j*. W h e n `t h i s . a n - u a s I n v o l v e d in c u t t i n g a n d 11 f i n i s h i n g of e p , r i . , ,, , . i p r o d u c t , he v o r , . r . s p i r . t o r 12 and he w o r e g o g g l e s at ay r e q u e s t . 13 ^ 1 ^ ' * y > t h > *>'P c *- ,f t p 1 r i t n r w K i r h y ^ l 14 h . v . d e s c r i b e d t h e r e , ,o uh . t e . t . n t , ,f 15 that s i . U . r to th. type of respirator u i t > ^ h l c h you 16 t e c . . . f a . i l i a r h i l , v o r k i n g for O v e p f - U l ino i s 7 1 7 MR. LEDWITH: 0bj><\ion. 1 8 BY MR. S C H MIDT: 19 Q * Well, you d e s c r i b e them both as being 20 p n e u . o c o n o n i c r e s p i r a t ^ s . What d i f f e r e n c e , if any, 21 w a s t h e r e b e t w e e n respirator with which you became 22 f a m i l i a r it O j ^ t - i m n o ii and the r e s p i r a t o r w h i c h you 23 r e c o m a e n d i / t h a t y o u r a s s i s t a n t u s e in th e p i l o t Plant? 00 MARKET STREET/IOTH FLOOR Ph il a d e l p h i a p a i8ioe KMPfl-COHin fttfCXIATfi (215) 926-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE I -800-S?3-65e John McAllister 48 1 -taTTiVi Lai i,, s i ; U r J'TTU W i iiiIu l i U L j M i n e 2 Ap"p l i iic e 3 Q- And to w h e t e x t e n t , if Jt a l l , w e * t h o s e 4 special kind of respir.tors made available to ether 5 e m p l o y e e s in the pla n t at V a l l e y F o r / g e n e r a l l y ? 6 MS. KAHN: Objecjr to the form of 7 the question. MR. S C H M I D ^ T o n what basis? 9 MS. KAHt/: Y o u r c h a r a c t e r i z a t i o n of I r. the r e s p i r a t o r is not that of the w i t n e s s . II You v e i r\ar p o r a t e d in y o u r q u e s t i o n f a c t s 1 ? to w h i he di d n ' t t e s t i f y . 13 MR. SCHMIDT; Could I hear my ' u question back, please? 1 (Whereupon the question was read 1 6 17 !B Y M R . S C H M I D T : 18 Q * To " hat e x t e n t , if at a l l , w e r e the 19 pneumocononic respirators you have mentioned available 20 Ito e m p l o y e e s at the V a l l e y F o r g e P l a n t g e n e r a l l y ? 21 A * At that poi n t in time, I don't know. 22 S u b s e q u e n t to c o m m e r c i a l i z a t i o n of c a l c i u m s i l i c a t e 23 at V a l l e y F o r g e , that same t y p e of r e s p i r a t o r b e e a m 24 a v a i l a b l e to a l l e m p l o y e e s f r o m s t o r e r o o m i s s u e . 25 Q * And " hat i n v o l v e m e n t , if any, d i d yo u have in 400 MARKET STREET/10TH FLOOR Ph i l a d e l p h i a p a 19106 KAiPfS-COMin RUCXIRTSJ (215) 928 9300 1 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-600 523-4656 John McAllister A9 that coning about? ( A* At the ofUir^HoKiiii I surveyed auch respirator types availability. 4 a* W h o w a s M r . H o v e l l? I '* M r * H o " e U ** V i c e - P r e s i d e n t in c h a r g e of < Purchasing for Ehret Magnesia. 9 1 C 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 A 1 3 1 6 1 7 1 3 1 9 20 21 22 23 2A 25 im A n d ' hat type of survey did you make? 1 S u r v *yd all sources a v a i l a b l e to ie of a s p i r a t o r s , specific to p n e u m o c o n o s o u s type a i r b o r n e lust p r o t e c t i o n , an d e s t a b l i s h e d t hat t y p e t h a t I had r e v i o u s l y o b t a i n e d for ay e m p l o y e e s in the pilot lant was the best type available. And Mr. Howell u b s e q u e n t l y a r r a n g e d to sake such r e s p i r a t o r s v a ilable p l a nt - w i d e to all Ehret employees. . And what tine frame are you speaking of? That believe. would have been late *58, early *59, W h e n was the f i r s t t i m e , if at alt, t h a t s t e p s ere taken to m e a s u r e the a m o u n t of a i r b o r n e dust t Valley Forge? - - [rm jT T u . n b j n 1 i ! ` i i ^* ~ MS. KAHN: X to the form. MR. SC H M^<f]; On what basis? M ^ e ^ K A H N : I t h i n k the q u e s t i on is v a T i nrl n ~ * in t n il m a r k e t STREET/10TH f l o o r Ph il a d e l p h ia p a 19106 KAIPf JC O H M flUCXMTfJ <?15) 9?t-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-600 b?3-656 John McAllister 51 1 TrT 2 o b j e c t i o n as to a m b i g u i t y by Pi 1 1 s b u r g h ^ ^ r n i n g 3 MR. LEDUITH: I think every^fl!y can 4 *ake their o b je ct io ns on the recs^d, and 5 let the Court sort them out Jjtttr on. 6 BY MR. S C H M I D T : 7 Q. Did y o u u n d e r s t a n d tjwr q u e s t i o n ? S A. I w o u l d l i k e to h m T e it r e p e a t e d . MR. S C M & IDT: Read back the question/ 10 Please. 11 hereupon the Court Reporter read 1 ? b a c k ^ h e last q ue st io n to the witness.) 1 3 3Y MR. SC Hifi D T 1 u >. Hid n H yn d r d-^ > 1 j I. Yes, I d o n ' t k n o w that I can a n s w e r it 1 6 ;p e c i f i c a 11 y . H o w e v e r , to m y k n o w l e d g e , t h e r e w as 17 i dust survey made by P e nns yl van ia M a nu f ac t ur i ng 1S issociation, Ehret Magnesia's insurance carrier, 1 9 believe for Workmens' Compensation. That survey 20 as m a d e a p p r o x i m a t e l y m i d d l e , late 1958. A n d it 21 n v o l v e d t a k i n g a i r s a m p l e s o n t h e b a t c h f l o o r a n d 22 n t h e f i n i s h i n g d e p a r t m e n t . 23 . And, spe ci fically, what was being looked for 24 n t a k i n g t h e s e a i r s a m p l e s ? 25 . To the best of my k n o w l e d g e , two s p e c i f i c 400 m a r k e t s t r e e t / io t h FLOOR | r Ph il a d e l p h ia pa 1 9 1 * b phones KMPfS-COHCn ftUOCIRTfl 1215) 9?B 9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-BOO-523-46S6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 `0 11 12 13 1 A 1 5 16 1 7 1 3 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 John Me A 1 1 ister irbornt iu.t.. 0,,* of the. c h r y i o t U I n o life. nd the other one asbestos fibers. N o y ' " h4t type of P r" *P loyment physical s e m i n a t i o n s , if a n y , w e r e y o u g i v e n , w h e n g o i n g w i t h ihret M a g n e s i a in 1952? 1 " ** fliven * g e n e r a l p h y s i c a l e x a m i n a t i o n on si s t i ng of a chest x-ray, normal body e xa mination for e r m a or h e a r t .m u r m u r , r e s p i r a t o r m u r m u r , b l o o d ressure and urinalysis. After the Pennsylvania Manufacturers* u r v e y that y o u ' v e m e n t i o n e d , to what e x t e n t , if at all, ere a d d i t i o n a l chest x - r a y s p r o v i d e d at Val l e y Forge? " --- M S ; - K A H N : - i -olrf e e e -- <e M il fei the question. MR. SCHMIDT: On what MS. KAHN leading question, and that it's a so thi n k that -- w e l l , p e r h a p s I c^^f'd h e a r it a g a i n . MR. LED^wfTH: Read that over again CW h e^e upon the Court Reporter read back t h t/{ ast question.) MR. S C H M I D T : Let me ask a little different question. MR. MI DT : ** *ny b 6'Int im- t f m e , i r r ry S o w h a t e ^ e i,^ 400 MARKET STREET/10TH FLOOR Ph il a d e l p h ia p a 19106 Knipfi cocn A iK x m T fi (2151928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-46S6 John HcAlli ter 53 1 i a t l1 ; r nj "inrhu IB U'tft IflBI'n P H f T * 2 :hest x-ryi provided t Valley Forge? 3 MR. LEDWITH: I object. f 4 M R . S C H M I D T : On w h a t bjft i s ? 5 MR. L E D W I T H : It 's tun u n c l e a r 6 quest ion. 7 3Y MR . S C H M I DT : 8 2. 9 Do you u n d e r s t a n d t^e q u e s t i o n , sir? MR. LEDWJ^TH : I'll tell you why 1 D it's u n c l e a r . & You're using the word 1 1 provided. hat do you wean by provided, 1 2 you mear^did Ehret provide it, did someone 1 3 e l s e JFr o v id e it? 1u 3Y MR. SCHMI 18 2. D# you understand my question, sir? 16 A . 1 7 e s. r n 11 Iri )'t ir ------- ` Ij M --- 1 13 (. There were two occasions after the PMA air 19 iurvey on which the Montgomery Tuberculosis Association 20 lobile C h e s t X - r a y Unit was b r o u g h t on p l a n t site and 21 tade a v a i l a b l e to a ll t h o s e e m p l o y e e s at t h e V a l l e y 22 ;o r g e P l a n t , w h o w i s h e d to u s e it. 23 . ftml Ml I U II I M M I H I WH Till Vf i1 ~ I I F 1 H'n 24 a l k i n g a b o u t i In ri mn'i l^iTTnia M a n u f a c t u r e r s ' A s s o c i a t i o n 25 iu r v y a w rt r r- r irr It -- rri* * 00 MARKET STREET/10TH FLOOR Ph il a d e l p h ia p a i9 '0 6 PHONES ErDrl KniPfl COHift AiiOCIATfi OUT OE PA T(O21L5L1F9R2E8-E9310-0800-523-4656 1 2 3 A 5 6 7 S 9 1 0 1 ' 1 ? ' 3 1 A 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 1 9 20 21 22 23 2 A 25 John McAllister 57 Mid in f i ll s t i o n -- e n u a l i o i he a c o u t t i c a l ` c e i l i n g H le I Kw ri I -- ^ -- p > M 1I*t j J* products And " here * * r these Manufactured? various asbestos containing ** T " p t * c *s, again, to the best of ay k n o w l e d g e , rrenton, New Jersey and Kalanasoo, Michigan. > And did the M a n uf a ct ur e of those p ro du c t s , j ontinueafter the relationship with Ehret Magnesia | n 1959? ! Yes. At those sane l o c a t i o n s ? j Yes. j I And at tone point in tiae, did you p h y s i c a l l y , ! id y o u r o f f i c e p h y s i c a l l y c h a n g e fro * V a l l e y F o r g e I o a n o t h e r `l o c a t i o n ? , Yes. And when was that? In 1964. And where was your office aoved to, or where >d y o u a o v e to? from V a l l e y Forge to T r e n t o n . . And did you r e main at Tren t o n until the tine at you left in 1970? No . Okay . ) m a r k e t s t r e e t / io t h f l o o r Ph il a d e l p h ia p a 18106 K M P fJ -C O M fn A IJ O C IftT C J PHOn rc 12151926 9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-600 523-4556 John McAllister 58 1 When the Keene serger with Baldwin Hill 2 occurred/ I was transferred from the Trenton office 3 to an o f f i c e in P r i n c e t o n . 4 And when, approximately, did that occur? 5 A. 1968. 6 Q* A r * yu f*m i liar with the National Insulation 7 Manufacturers* Association? 8 A. Yes . 9 Q* What ** the nature of that o r ga n iz at i on? 1 0 * Xt " as * t r * d * o r g a n i z a t i o n , w h i c h had a 1 1 f o r e r u n n e r in the M a g n e s i a I n s u l a t i o n M a n u f a c t u r e r s ' 12 U s o c i a t i o n , a n d it has b e e n s u c c e e d e d by the 13 r h e r m a l I n s u l a t i o n M a n u f a c t u r e r s ' A s s o c i a t i o n . I t ' s 14 ivowed purpose, as I u n d e r s t a n d it, was to jointly 15 ixchange interest and solve problems common to the 16 n d u s t r y without v i o l a t i n g the r e s t r a i n t of trade 17 ega lit ie s . 13 A n d w h e n , if at a l l , w e r e y o u i n v o l v e d in t h e 19 ctivities of that o r ga n i z a t i o n ? 20 . From 1966 through 1970. 21 A n d w h f f ~~ ..Ajhn t ' * f -- wigT e x r * b c r i f T h a t 22 r g a n i z a t i o n d u r i n g t h a t p e r io 6 0p4T00t\ m e , w h a t o t h e r 23 o m p a n i es? 24 I don. r e m e m b e r , s p e c i f i c a l l y , and my list 25 -- i l 'I w t i h u n i -- - | | i t r n i mij , 400 m a r k e t STREET/IOTH f l o o r Ph il a d e l p h ia , p a 19106 KAIKf-COHCfl fUiOCMTO Ph o n e s (?15) 928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FRFF 1 J * 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 1 0 11 12 1 3 1 L 1 ? 16 1 7 13 1 9 20 21 22 23 2U 25 John McAllister 59 J o f m * inH sn w i.44^, r e r r i i n ee-ed, P e b i u , P I H i b u r g f T ^ ^ r r n n B There may have been others, I don't rea^RTber " A r * y u wa re *s to w^-TTer or not R u b e r o i d was a mem b e r during t h> 4< p e r 1 o d of time? MS. HESSION: Objection. - T W Jj U j T N6 S i . j d e n 1 t 3Y MR. S C H M I D T : 2 ' And " hat. was the nature of your involvement in that organization? 1 " as B a l d w i n - E h r e t - H i ll K e e n e ' s r e p r e s e n t a t i v e >n the T e c h n i c a l a n d R e s e a r c h C o m m i t t e e of t h a t 'rganization. And from time to tin e , s e r v e d as n 0 hoc ember of the Government Relations o m m ittee of that o r ga ni za ti o n. And during the time that you were a member f the Technical and Research Committee, what was he n a t u r e of the a c t i v i t i e s of that C o m m i t t e e ? . Primary a ct iv i t i e s of that Committee were o police the specifications validity of member products ata she e t s , and to a t t e m p t to have G o v e r n m e n t pecifications and ASTM specifications reflect the . e a l i t i e s of p r o d u c t c h a r a c t e r i s t i c s as p r o d u c e d by he I n d i v i d u e l m e m b e r s . Uhie-^aa t fc-* ^ * j-ft a t h c r f n m m s s i ii 'l l.* I /HJli "men Iu h t j d w a im g S h e ti m e t 10 M AftAFT STREET/10TH f l o o r Ph i l a d e l p h i a p a 191O6 Ph o n e s >(M n KAIKI-COMCn AiJCXIfiTfl (2 IS) 926-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800 523-4&SC John NcAllister 62 1 Q* N o w ' Msneger of Technical Services fro 2 1 9 6 6 to 1 9 7 U , w h a t i n v o l v e m e n t , 1f a n y , d i d y o u h a v e 3 1n r e v i e w i n g t h e s a l e s M a t e r i a l of Ba I d w 1 n - E h r e t - H i 1 1 A nd Keene Corporation? 5 A* 0n everal occasions, Batdwin-Ehret-Hill had 6 s a l e b r o c h u r e s p r o d u c e d by M c G r a w H i l l . It was 7 y r e s p o n s i b i l i t y to r e v i e w and / o r p r e p a r e initial 8 copy for those brochures. And once the brochure had 9 been put together by McGraw Hill, to edit and proofread 10 final c o p y p r i o r to p u b l i c a t i o n , and p r i o r to use in 11 ueet's and McCray's Blue Book. 1? U -- 13 material from 1V66 to 1 970, did you ever see aX^Th^ing 1 A n any of that m a t e r i a l a d v i s i n g c u s t o m e y M h a t there 1 5 'as a n y h a z a r d w h a t s o e v e r to u s i n g t t o d a s b e s t o s 16 ontaining materials described iy'that sales material? I 7 MS. K A H N : CMTj e c t to the f o r m of 1 8 the question. 1 9 MR.ya CH MID T: On what grounds? 20 . KAHN: He did not testify that 21 f*e r w M e w e d s a l e s i n f o r m a t i o n so m u c h as p r e p a n 22 ca^y for them, I believe the record would 23 .i d i i a i l 2A Y M R . S C H MIDT: 23 . In p r e p a r i n g copy for the salesmen, what would 400 MARKET STREET/10TH FLOOR Ph il a d e l p h ia PA191O6 KAiPII COHCn AUOCIflTO phones (215)928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800 523-4856 John Me A 1 11star 63 you do? X WOuld u *e Prtviou* s e l l e r publications a* a b a s e set of c o p y e nd r e v i s e it to r e f l e c t a n y c h a n g e s that had o c c u r r e d 1n a specific prod u c t relat i v e to the copy therefore, and then subolt that finally rev i s e d copy to the Sales Man a g e r for h1s approval. And point? he Sties Mantger at that A* 11 *' flfles Wi l son t 9 A n d ** * n)' ` t b e t w e e n 1 9 6 6 a n d 1 9 7 0 , a e r e 12 7ou ever r e q u e s t e d to r , i ,, , ny 0< thlt , , lt$ 13 a t e r l . l u i t h r e s p e c t to I n s e r t i n g a n y c a u t i o n a r y 1 4 l a n g u a g e in that . a t , r i a l c o n c e r n i n g any hat a r d s or 15 d an g er s of e x p o su r e to asbestos? 1 6 A. No . 1 7 18 !. 1 t 19 A. ' Sure, Do you n t r u ii f a r a hs u<- f i nj "u, i nu, *+ S O Z 20 Q a 21 I 1ve g o t a b o u t 22 (Uhp/eupon a break was taken fro 23 11:15 a ^ . until 11:20 a.*.) MR. S W O R D : On behalf of H. K. Port e r ind S u i r t l i e e * --T 1 i M --h n n n | a i n i n j n t e 00 MARKET S T R E rt/IO T H FLOOR Ph i l a d e l p h i a Pa 1 8 1 O6 K n iP s i c o H in fk iic K u r r u l? 1 5 l 8PB-93O0 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-600-523-46S6 John McAllister 64 1 - o b j e c t ! <ii j t tuUi i 'li M il H e w TUTIL l i l i g u f r* 2 p e n d i n g in the Eastern District o f Y o r k 3 and the Connecticut litigati 4 3Y MR. S C H M I D T : 5 3* During the c o u r s ^ f performing those 6 duties, sir, d i d i * r ever see any such cautionary 7 " a t e r i a l i n ^ar<> of t h a t s a l e s m a t e r i a l ? c c. In the course of p er forming those 1 " iuties, did you ever see any such cautionary language 11 n any of that sales m at erial, with which you Mere 12 nvo lved? 13 1 4 Not that I remember. 1 5 hret M a g n e s i a , who w e r e the top m a n a g e m e n t o ^ o p l e of 16 hret M a g n e s i a at that time, and what w>/e their 17 ositions? 1 6' . A l v i n H. E h r e t , J r ; ^ r e s i d e n t , M i k e H o w e l l , 1 V i c e - P r e s i d e n t , P u r c ha s ij^sV Rut s e t l C r a w f o r d , S e c r e t a r y 20 nd T r e a s u r e r , R. H ^ ^ n i e y , - P l a n t Ma n a g e r , U11 ey S m i t h , 21 S a l e ^ d f a n a g e r , later replaced by - 22 i m u e l 6 a l * e * # / G - A - R - R - E as S a l e s M a n a g e r . 23 hat a b o u t the R e s e a r c h D e p a r t m e n t ? 24 I'm not su r e that R e s e a r c h D e p a r t m e n t is the 25 lunation. TecKnT o m a r k e t s t r e e t /IO Th f l o o r Ph il a d e l p h ia pa ib ic * t KAIPfl COMin AUOCIATlf i^M ^aoc I OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-600 6?3-S56 1 John McAllister k y , thank you. Non, you've d e scribed y^dT ovn ivire i " * * ' .s to a s b e s t o s r e U t e d d is , a y / g ^ t o r t0 co.i n g I vith Ehret in 1 95 2 . ( ^ t * < n N 0 : I b e l i e v e he d e s c r i b e d s b e s t o s i ^ X T the o n l y a v a r e n e s s th.t he had. ? THE WITNESS: And silicosis. 1 C MR. COSTANTINO: And silicosis. 1 1 MR. S C H M I D T : I 'm g o i n g to r e st ate 1? 13 Y MR. S C H M I D T : 1 4 iou discussed the n.ture of your ...reness 1 5 f e s b e s t o s d i s e . s e p r i o r to t o . i n , ,, i , h Ehret M a g n e s i a 1 6 " 1 9 5 2 . TO .hat . t e n t , if at a U , did you c o . . u n i c . t e 1 7 ur " ' " * * * h e r p e rsons a, ,he Ehret M a g n e s i a 18 1 1 l e y F o r g e P l a n t ? 1 9 **ni L E U M T T H i j etrf 20 KAHN: L ^ f T T e c t as well. I think 21 it's a c o ap ou n^ Xq u estion. He stated his 22 w a r e n e s s jrfC t e r m s of a n u m b e r of d i f f e r e n t 23 subs t^ T e s . 24 MR. SCHI 25 MARKET STREET/IOTH f l o o r Ph i l a d e l p h i a p a 1B106 WUPif-CONCH AUOOATCJ t?15| 9?B 9300 o u t o f p a t o l l f r e e i-a o o 5? 3-666 John McAllister 66! P ln n S I i ? 1 c 11 12 13 1 4 1 r. 1 6 1 7 13 1 9 30 21 22 23 24 25 ** ** 1 b re,iusly testified this aorning, l ..de o, p ot ential che.ical h.t.rd. known to t - t w m d u w o worked f o r a . M n the pilot plant. 1 *1 -ade that a w . r , ,, ,, , of p 0 ,,,,,i.i h , z, rds tnoyn ".estri, he individual ahift tore.en, . batch L i n g p . r .onn.l in the p r o d u c t i o n op er at io n "d th* bepart.ent peraonn.l in the r e d u c t i o n o p e r a t i o n , by word of aouth. *nd over what period of ti.e did you do O * boring that period of tiae that I was actively vol.ed a, . u . y forge, fro. inception of pilot nt work, which was probably starting 1953 through til ay transfer to Trenton, which I believe was , 1963. And in light of the p r e v i o u s o b j e c t i o n , whet m arket s t r e e t / io t h f l o o r Ph il a d e l p h ia p a 19106 KflPfJ COHin A U O < I A T O PHONES (2151 9?6-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FR EE l-e00-5?3-46.SF. John McAllister 67 1 did you c o a au n lca te to these people that you have 2 naaed? 3 A* That t h e r e was c e r t a i n l y h a z a r d I n v o l v e d in A ilica flours rel a t i v e to s i l icosis and that 5 there was probable hazard early on with asbestosis, 6 * nd certain hazard after lvi9 with asbestosis. 7 Q * And B a i n , in light of that o b j e c t i o n , 6 could you again name the people that you communicated 9 this to ? 10 A * ^Mr.- K i n s e y , Mr. D e N a e s t r i , the s h i f t 1 1 supervisors, Mr. Cos, Mr. Ward, Mr. Harley and 12 Mr. K i n n e y , the p r o d u c t i o n a l x i n g p e r s o n n e l , the 13 brothers Butter, a Mr. Merriwether and a fourth 1A mixing ope rator , whose name I have forgotten, the 15 finishing personnel involved whose names I do not 16 remember. 17 ^ A n u 'u i j u -in-ti gri r u r i m ij l j u. i < a n, 18 what point in time did you beg i n t^s-elfvey this informa 19 tion to t h e s e p e r s o n s ? 20 MR. L E.>CITH: O b j e c t i o n . First off, 21 there * r ^ ^ i f fjrent types of i n f o r m a t i o n 22 th a t ^ u r e f e r r e d to e a r l i e r , a n d I t h i n k 23 s a q u e s t i o n , the q u e s t i o n is u n c l e a r and 2 A r^nfiirini i-- BY MR. SCHMIDT: 400 MARKET s t r e e t / io t h FLOOR Ph il a d e l p h ia p a 19 10 6 K M P ff (O H M A U O C IA T fJ (215)926 9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-600 John Me Allister 68 1 Q. fto w cls iiH e w M lit nflye n |tTfT' 2 A. Can't say that I do, sorry. 3 U BY MR. S C H M I D T : MR. LEDUXTH: He c o n c u r s 5 ^^e natters which you communi c a ^ e d , 6 w h i c h y o u ' v e just d e s c r i b e d , at w h a t y f o i n t in t i m e 7 did you begin to c o m m u n i c a t e t h i s jTn fo rna t io n to the 8 persons that you have named? 9 MR. L E D W I T H ^ Again, note my 1 0 objection. 1 1 MR. SCK^IDT: On what grounds? 1 2 MR. W I T H : First off, you're 1 3 referring \m a general body of information, 1 A a n d I as suii e t h a t it was c o n t a i n e d in the 1 5 P r e v io u i f q u e s t i o n s . He d e s c r i b e d , I believe, 1 6 the h a * r d s of silica flour, probable hazards 1 7 e a r ly / o n of asb es t os is , certain hazards after 1 8 , he d e s c r i b e d four, at least f i f t e e n 1 o p V pie that he d e s c r i b e d these things to at 20 different p e r i o d s of time. I don ' t see how 21 he can a n s w e r a q u e s t i o n p h r a s e d as you 22 i" U nh*-* c *^ w - -- 23 Y MR. S C H M I D T : 2A . What do you m ean by early on? 25 . Pri o r to 195 9 d e f i n e s ear l y on. And at that i r 40C m a r k e t STREET/10TH FLOOR Ph i l a d e l p h i a p a 1 9 1 O6 | b K n iP c i-c o H c n r u c x ir t o ph o n es (2151928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-4656 John McAllister 69 1 point 1n time, I think I stated that starting with the 2 operation of the pilot plant -- 3 Which was in? 4 A. S h o u l d have been in 1953 or t h e r e a b o u ts. 5 The certain hazard of silicosis from silica flour and 6 the potential hazards for asbestosis from asbestos 7 fiber, those concerns were made known to the individuals 8 that X have listed. 9 Q. Okay, thank you. 1 0 Now, to w h a t e x t e n t , if at all, d i d y o u 11 b e c o m e a w a r e of e m p l o y e e s of the V a l l e y F o r g e P l a n t 12 developing dust related problems? 13 A * Dust related health problems? 14 9. Yes,sir. 15 A * There were three i n d i v i d u a l s , e m p l o y e e s of 1 6 Ehret M a g n e s i a at the Val l e y Forge P l a n t , who showed 17 symptoms of, or died of respiratory impairment. One 1 c iof t h e n , R a l p h L a n k i n , w h o was P r o d u c t i o n C o n t r o l I __ 1 9 Supervisor died of lung c a n c e r in P h o e n i x v i l l e H o s p i t a l 20 a p p r o x i m a t e l y 195b or 1959. Ano t h e r one by the name 21 of D o m e n i ^ , I b e l i e v e , * a n i e r V , r - a - N - I - E - r - i , d i e d 22 of a r e s p i r a t o r y i m p a i r m e n t , a n d t h e r e w a s a S h i f t 23 S u p e r v i s o r by t h e n a m e of ( J u l i a n W a r d ; A - N , not 24 E - N , w h o h a d v e r y s e v e r e b r e a t h i n g p r o b l e m s a n d 25 'ic l u b b e d f i n g e r n a i l s . A n d at o n e p o i n t in t i m e , was OC MARKET S T R E E T/i OTh f l o o r Ph il a d e l p h ia , pa o io e |r t r KfllPCf (OMift AJJOCIftTfi PHONES (?15) 928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-600 S23-656 John McA l {itter 1 having his lungs flushed on a regular basis by a 2 doctor In the N o r r i s t o w n area. The p r o c e d u r e and 3 r e s u l t s of w h i c h f l u s h i n g he d e s c r i b e d to ae on A several o cc a s i o n s , and also p oi nted out to me that 5 clubbed fin g e r na i l s were a symptom of respiratory 6 impairment. A factor that I had not been previously 7 ware of. JJL 8 And w h a t w a s the nature of the work 9 s e r f o r m e d by t h e Mr. D o m e n T V '"KaM-*ri-; j pronounced 1 0 it c o r r e c t l y , w h o y o u h a v e m e n t i o n e d ? 1 1 He been a mixing o p e r a t o r in the old 12 irocess, E h r e t M a g n e s i a , m a g n e s i u m o p e r a t i o n . At 13 he time X knew him, he was a m e m b e r of the M a i n t e n a n c e 1A epartment . 15 . And to w h a t e x t e n t , if at a l l , w e r e these 16 ust r e lated p r o b l e m s d i s c u s s e d among e m p l o y e e s at the 17 alley Forge Plant? 1 8 . D i f f i c u l t Q u e s t i o n to a n s w e r . As in all 19 mall s o c ieties, when some member of that society 20 u * * ers n i m p a i r m e n t that a p p a r e n t l y is i n d u s t r y 21 e l a t e d , t h e r e is m u c h d i s c u s s i o n . I c a n ' t s p e a k f o r - 22 t h e r e m p l o y e e s at E h r e t , o b v i o u s l y , but w h e n t h e s e 23 n s t a n c e s o c c u r r e d , I c e r t a i n l y d i s c u s s e d w i t h t h o s e 2A rou n d me at the time of n o t i f i c a t i o n the 25 o s s i b l e i m p l i c a t i o n s of t h o s e d u s t r e l a t e d i m p a i r m e n t s . X MARKET STREET/10TH FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 fcs KAIPU COHin AUOOATO (?i5)9?e-9300 " **' OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-600-673-46S6 John McAllister 71 1 Q* A n d just as a point of c l a r i f i c a t i o n , -hen 2 did you btcoaa aware that M r . va s 3 suiftring^ was experiencing respiratory probleas? 4 A* * c a n ' t put a t i n e p e r i o d o n it, but it 5 (would have b e e n b e t w e e n 1 9 5 6 a n d a p p r o x iaa te ly 1 958, 6 during the course of daily activities we 7 each other in the plant office. it n e x t E ,Q * An d if 1 u n d e r s t a n d y o u r t e s t i m o n y c o r r e c t l y , 9 death of Mr. trrrpir-TT*mWe*froa _ i J at a p p r o x i m a t e l y the s a a e t i n e ? I lA * That ^a--correct. lung cancer occurred Q- N o w r wh e n , if at a l l , d i d you fi r s t b e c o m e aware of any studies concerning a possible r e l a t i o n s h i p between e xp os u re to asbestos and cancer? A* A b o u t a y e a r p r i o r to 15-al.i ko-f U s p u b l i c a t i o n s iiof h i s f i n d i n g s on an i n v e s t i g a t i o n of t h e a s b e s t o s workers from the New York and Brooklyn Shipyard area. S o ' that would have been approximately 1963? I !A * 1 b e l i e v e t h a t S e l i k o f f p u b l i s h e d in '64,* I and this w o u l d have b e e n a y e a r p r i o r to t h a t , if my - d a t e s for S e l i k o f f ' s p u b l i c a t i o n s is c o r r e c t . And uhit use y o u r u n d e r s t a n d i n g as to the results of t h a t s t u d y t h a t y o u m e n t i o n e d ? A- It's my understanding that Selikoff's paper 400 m a r k e t STREET/IOTh f l o o r Ph il a d e l p h ia pa 19106 b ph o n es KMPtJ CONCH AUO<IATO (? '5 I 9P6-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FR EE 1-SOO-523-46S6 John McAllister 2 4 . t . p u . h . p ,,. r e l a t i o n s h i p b . t v n . , b . . o . In t h. < 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1? 1 3 1 9 1 3 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 2 A 25 U " ,$ ** , h ** " < " * *', re l a t i v e l y u n k n . v n " little known lor. of tenter , . u , d . ,, o t b e l l o . a . rhis was ay first e x p o s u r e to that tera. 3 ' ^ ^ tinrirrstanri > n " r * * * t i m n 11 y i n i r p i i L <ou f i r s t l e a r n e d of t h e d i ^ a s e ^ ^ ^ T T i b e s t o s i s >rior to j o i n i n g E h rjj^-frs'g n e s i a in 1 9 5 2 ? Y MR. SCHMIDT: MR. LEDWITH: Objection. US i, KAHN*- OL'jeii \ o"'"l'h "T 6 Pfl!. M h * n did you first learn of the disease roces, a s b e s t o s l s as d i s t i n g u i s h e d fro a . s o t h . U o a a ? I learned of the potential for asbestosis hile I was with Owens-Illinois. -- MR S PHflT DT _ T h n f, y y w questions. MR. B U R N L W T ^ Let's take a break, thereupon a break was taken from a im 11 n r i,,1__1 ? r0 0 i , K ) ' MR. BURNETT: Mr. M c A ll i st e r, I have a couple of questions. Were any W o r k e r s ' Compensation aims brought by Mr. -- either Mr. Ward, H r , R a n i f r i , o r . L a m k i n a g a i n s t BEH or at E h r e t ? I t's ay u n d e r s t a n d i n g t h a t M r . flatiierf's f a a i l y i MARKET STREET/10TH FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 1B106 KAIPfl-COHM AMCXIQTEJ (215) 928-9300 OUT OF P A IO L I FREE 1-600-523-4656 John McAllister 73 1 filed a claia that resulted In a a u l t l 2 T Oo y k n o w If any e m p l o y e e of E h r e t or 3 BEH gave t e s t i m o n y in any p r o c e e d i n g in r e l a t i o n k to that claim? 5 A. I don't knov, 6 Q As a result of your - - strike that. 7 As a result of your p a r t i c i p a t i o n 8 in the Committees- that you have m e n t i o n e d in NIM A , do 9 i you have an understanding of how the Government was I 10 setting its s p e c i f i c at i on s for asbestos containing 1 1 p r o d u c t s at that p e r i o d of time? II 12 jA . Yes. 13 j W h a t is that u n d e r s t a n d i n g ? 1k A* That understanding was that the Government 15 was not setting its standards based on asbestos content 16 per se. Th e G o v e r n m e n t w a s s e t t i n g its s t a n d a r d s 17 based on selecting those commercially available 18 |insulating p r o d u c t s in the upper tier of q u a l i t y and 1 9 ( p e r f o r m a n c e . TA a p h y s i c a l a h a r a c 1 e T l n Iu j lliul 20 g o o d i n s u l a t i o n w e r e t e s t i f i e d by t he N^Ar-y^Tes t i ng 21 C e n t e r in A n n a p o l i s , M a r y l a n d d j * H n g t h e q u a l i f i c a t i o n 22 p r o c e d u r e to a d d a p r o d ^ p r f * q u a l i f i e d p r o d u c t s l i s t 23 f o r N a v y e n d G o v^r-droe nt u s e , t h a t P L * in g e n e r a l , 2 k a d m i t t e d tA'd't l i n e , or t h o s e i n s u l a t i n g p r o d u c t s w h i c h 25 w e r ^ i o m t w h g t K t [ r K m ~ - -1- --- y a V-*H* l ~ r a t r 400 MARKET STREET/10TH FLOOR Ph i l a d e l p h i a P A 1 9 1 O6 KniPEJ COHin AUOOftTCI Ph o n es (?15l 9?8-9300 OUT OF PA TOLt FR FF 1 -firm ' John McAllister 75 1 A* There were any such distributorship 2 arrangements across the Country. 3 i f ** r 1 4 ny d i s t r i b u t o r s in M a r y l a n d ? 5 A* Which were Ehret distributors? 6 W a l l a c e ana G a l e , two L's in W a l l a c e a n c ^ S n e L in 7 Gale, G-A-L-E . 8 Q* 1)0 y o u k n o w w h e n t h a t r e l a t i o n s h i p w a s 9 establi shed? 10 A . I do not. 11 a* Were there any d i s t r i b u t o r s in the 12 P h i l a d e l p h i a a r e a , w i t j j ^ w h i c h E h r e t h a d a 13 relationship? 14 ^ I believ f that Philadelphia Asbestos now 1 3 m o w n as P a c o r w # s an Ehret d i s t r i b u t o r . A d d i t i o n a l l y , 1 6 `h r * t h a d i ^ a n ch of its o w n , a c o n t r a c t i n g b r a n c h 1 7 >f its o w i in P h i l a d e l p h i a . 1 8 MR. CHEYNEY: Objection, move 1 9 to s t r i k e t h a t a n s w e r , if it's o v e r r u l e d 20 Ti I i h ii { im t i 4 1 11 I a l 21 iY M R . B U R N E T T : 22 . What did the -- what was the functi on of the 23 o n t r a c t i n g b r a n c h of E h r e t ? 24 . To sell both m a t e r i a l and e r e c t i o n of such 25 a t e r i a l to c u s t o m e r s in the P h i l a d e l p h i a a r e a . 00 MARKET STREET/10TH FLOOR Ph il a d e l p h i a , p a 19 10 6 KAIPf J-COHM AJJOCIATf* PHONES (?15) 926-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-600 S?3-6i>6 lohn M c A l l i s t e r 7 6 1 a &o y ou know the naaies of any of the 2 pers o n n e l I n v o l v e d In the a p p l i c a t i o n by Ehret of 3 I n s u l a t i o n o a t e r l a l In the P h i l a d e l p h i a are a ? * 4 Thit o p e r a t i o n was headed up by an Ehret 5 faployee who s e name I cannot r t n e n b e r at the 6 o.ent. But, he was later -- I beg your p a r d o n , his 7 tane w a s %D wlQ*t S a 1 1 e r w a 1 1 / S - A - T - T - e - R - W - A - I - T - E , 8 ter s u c ce e d e d by and replaced by Ed H o g s t r o a / 9 I-0-G-S-T-R-0-M. 10 . Mr. McAllister, did you ever observe the 11 nstallation of thernal insulation aiaterial? 12 Many tiaes. 13 . Where did you observe that? U During the c o n s t r uc t io n of the Sayreville 15 lent for O w e n s - Z l l i n o i s . During the Modification of 1 6 he V a l l e y F o r g e P l a n t of Eh r e t M a g n e s i a and In 17 any, aany field trips of c on st ru c ti o n sites since 18 hen . 1 9 Have you ever o bs er v ed the cutting of pipe 20 o v e r i n g on a job s i t e ? 21 Yes . 22 Is that part of the noraal use of the 23 `o d u c t ? 2 4 Yes . 25 !----- ^ r n r li 400 MARKET STREFT/10TH FLOOR Ph il a d e l p h ia p a i# i0 6 fc x K A IP S l-C O H S n PHONES A J J C X IftT E I (2151 926-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-800-523-4656 John McAllister 1 You Mentioned certain dust 2 collection equip.ent in relation to the M a nu f a c t u r e 3 >f 8 5 X M a g n e s i a . 4 Yes. 5 Oo You know when that e q u i p . e n t was 6 installed? 7 A* Not positively, however, prior to ay 8 e m p l o y . e n t by Ehret M a g n e s i a in 1952 and, of cour s e , 9 subsequently during plant Modification for 10 c a l c i u m s i l i c a t e p r o d u c t i o n . 11 Q . Vft.. - ---- r f r i,, L-| 12 Were there ever any Pabco ^ i p l o y ees 13 p r e s e n t in the Ehret P l a n t ? 14 A . Yes. 1 5 <3 . 16 A. Old you .eet with them j^irself? Yes. 1 7 On how .any occasions? 13 A * Many o c c i s i o n s / The Pabco relationship 19 was s e r v i c e d by a m a by the name of W a r r y H o o p \ 20 H - O - O - P - E - s , h o / a d e p e r i o d i c v i s i t s to the V a l l e y 21 F o r g e P l a n t t ^ e r v i c e t h e l i c e n s i n g a g r e e m e n t of 22 E h r e t M a g n e s / a . 23 You visit the production areasof the plant 24 w i t h M r . / H o o p e s ? 25 A. 400 m a r k e t STR E E T/i OTH f l o o r PHILADELPHIA. PA 19106 KniPff-COHCn AJJO<IATtt 1215) 928-9300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-600-523-4656 John McAllister 107 1 BY MS. KAHN: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 |Q * 61v e n your k n o w l e d g e of a s b e s t o s as a 11 p o t e n t i a l h ealth hazard dating back to the 1950's, 12 w e r e n ' t y o u a f r a i d for y o u r o w n s a f e t y , w h i l e y o u w e r e 13 w o r k i n g at t h e p l a n t ? 1 4 1 5 | 16 ! j 1 7 18 ! I 1 9 20 THE WITNESS: I'm afraid when I cross the street here in New York. Yes, living has its own h a z a r d s . And as long as reasonable precautionary conditions are e s t a b l i s h e d , p eople go on living. 21 y rnri f a a r 22 BY M S . K A H N : nrr<nr N e w Y o r k. . 23 Q* ut /our concern and you took reasonable 24 c i u t i o n * ry p r o c e d u r e s ; d i d y o u n o t ? 25 A I tried to. 400 MARKET STREET/10TH FLOOR Ph il a d e l p h ia , pa 19106 KMPfl-COHtn AJJOCIftTU PHONES (215) 8 -9 3 0 0 John N c A l liittr 108 1 And what did you do? 2 A> 1 w o p # ` p i r a t e r a w h a n I w a s e x p o s e d to 3 *ut of any tort. 4 And you required other eaployees who were 5 < l t h jru to o l i o v . . r r . t p l r . t o r . ; d i d y o u n o t 6 ' Tlioto that o a r # w o r k i n g for ne. T h a r e la 7 i difference. 8 ! ------ O h-eri---- 9 A n d I s n ' t 1t t r u e t h a t y o u p a r t i ^ e t ed 10 n the design of the dust c ol lection aystea th^t was 11 n s t a l l e d In c o n n e c t i o n with the c a l c i u a sJ^Hcate 12 p e r a t i o n ? 13 Where? 14 At Ehret. 1 5 1 did not. 16 Didn't you te st i ^ ^ i n your last deposition 1 7 het y o u a n d fir. '"Kl n s e / a n d M r v; D e M a e s t r f a 11 p l a y e d a 18 art in d e s i g n i n g t/e dust c o l l e c t i o n systea that was 19 i n s t a l l e d in c o ^ T e c t i o n w i t h the c a l c i u m s i l i c a t e 20 p r o d u c t i o n ? 21 H R . S C H M I D T : O b j e c t i o n to t h e f o r a 22 HR. B U R N E T T : I join in that. 23 THE WITNESS: I a ay have. I do not 24 reaeaber. 25 AATTNT *0 0 MARKET STREET/10TH FLOOR PHILADELPHIA PA 18106 ^ KMMJ C OHfA AJKXiftTti PHONES (315)826-8300 OUT OF PA TOLL FR EE 1-e00-&J3-46S6 John MeAllister 111 1 Just to complete your answer to an earlier 2 question, during your eighteeen years with the 3 company, did you do anything other than wear a 4 respirator to protect your own health fro* hazards S af a s b e s t o s e x p o s u r e ? 6 7 vague 8 9 10 personal chest x-rays. 11 >Y MS. K A H N : 12 i. Did you do anything else? 13 I w o r e g o g g l e s w h e n it was n e c e s s a r y , 14 side fro* that, no. 15 I s n 't it a fact, Mr. M c A l l i s t e r , that you 16 o not r e a l l y k n o w w h a t p r o m p t e d the P M A d u s t s t u d y 17 hat you testified about this morning? 18 . 19 . I don't know, and Okay. I never so implied. 20 A n d i s n ' t it a l s o a f a e t t h a t y o u 21 o n ' t k n o w s p e c i f i c a l l y w h e t h e r P M A w a s l o o k i n g f o r 22 s b e s t o s c o n t e n t s p e c i f i c a l l y in these s u r v e y s ? 23 I don't know that that was their initial 24 ntent. I know that they found and reported asbestos 25 jst in their samples. i 4DC m a r k e t STREET/10TH FLOOR ' Ph i l a d e l p h i a , p a 61 oe t K niPtrcoH in a u o c ia t o (?1S!6?6 8300 OUT OF PA TOLL FREE 1-600-523-46S John McAllister 1 59 1 working for me. ? * The point though, that there were 3 r e s p i r a t o r s d e s i g n e d to p r o t e c t a g a i n s t d i f f e r e n t 9 h a z a r d s , even at that time? S A 0h, yes. 6I 'Q * A n d ' s s en tiaiiy, you were concerned with the 7 i s i l i c a h a z a r d at t h a t t i m e ; w e r e y o u n o t ? i 8 i ^ D U IV I E T T . U L j m TTn . ' 9I ! T h E W I T N t s S : All dust hazards. r> L- BY MR. L E D W I T H : 11 | Q* S o ' did you oroer a r es pirator for all dust 12 h a z a r d s at t h e t i m e ? I 1 3 ,A * The respirator that I ordered was reported 19 by the m a n u f a c t u r e r to be a d e q u a t e for a i r b o r n e 15 dust. 16 Q * You t e s t i f i e d that you had a n u m b e r of 17 p r o t e c t i v e d e v i c e s s u p p l i e d to this p a r t i c u l a r 18 employee, including goggles and gloves. 19 A. That's right. 20 Q * What were the g og gles d es ig ned to protect 21 g a i n s t ? 22 A * 23 m i x i n g . Eye injury from c a u s t i c s in the b a t c h 29 25 g l o v e s ? I t a k e it t h a t was the s a m e for the 4oc m a r k e t s t r e e t / io t h f l o o r L TT Ph il a d e l p h i a p a i b i 06 U A iM r ./6 v u . . . . p h on e s John McAUisttr 155 ^ fibers. ^ # A n d 6^c hn3in imcca ln .a^b r a.si o n s f.r o m a s b e s t o s 3 4 for you? was he nine ef he, worked 5 *' H ' s n a "' " ** -ItV.rd Peoni n9t(w>. t P-E-N-N-I-N-6-T-0-N. 7 8 Ehret at the tim e , was t h e r e not? Ii i' Yes, but 1 think that needs some tication. There were a number of/^uilding d e s i g n a t i o n s , bu, t h , s t r u c t .........c / t i ,, u o u s , , , C ep. 1 2 !,f0P *" Ut Iding garage, which yii separate from 3 the p l a n t s t r u c t u r e 10 I" ' TMl pr^/ess that you set up, 1 5 jthet was on a second U o o r / > apparently a three 11 [story building? y 0u s y ^ d it , ls .. t h e r e uaJ , * 7 d^p^rtiTipnt a b o v e vo<i r\-i j . . y U/ n a d e p a r t m e n t u n d e r y o u ; r i g h t ? 1 A' 11 was 0n A he t h i r d floor of a four s t o r y 1 9 b u i l d i n g in tha ^/pa r t i c u l a r part of the o v e r a l l 20 ( S t r u c t u r e 21 l * 22 n o t ? * n d ^ t h a t '$ w h e r e y o u d i d y o u r w o r k ; is it 23 A . 24 yes h a t 's w h e r e the p i l o t p l a n t w o r k was d o n e . 25 Q . 400 MARKET j TREETr//IOioTTHn fflloooorr ^ P H IL A D E L P H IAP" A,B'06 HniPU COHin ftlK X I T U phones I?16l9?6 9300 171 1 2 That's right. 3 4 T ory. 5 1964. 1 beg your pardon, l e t M refresh H,,, th.t .,,Id h . ,, b e y ^ T , . quent , 0 6 Q* What are you r e f e ^ n g to 7 *- My resume. 8 * 9 A. You t h o s e C o m m i t t e e s in 1 964? ^ u b s e q u e n t thereto, yes. This as at 1 D a p o m ^ n t i m e h e n I was w o r k i n g in T r e n t o n for 11 Bride, Dir ec t or of Research for B a l d w i n- E hr et 1 2 1 3 * T h e t,ff,es t h a t y o u met w i t h t h e s e G o v e r n m e n t 14 |employees, though, you did not discuss the asbestos 15 content of the thermal insulation? 1 6 A. No. 17 Q . 1 8 A. I t ever rais e d by a n ybody? Not that I recall. 1 9 <5. SS uupp e r P o w e r h o u s e C e m e n t w a s m a d e in T r e n t o n , 2D w a s n ' t i t ? 21 A . Yes 22 Q . 2 s n 23 did not c o n t a i n a s b e s t o s ? 24 `-`il i *T i im . 25 T H E W I T N E S S : I'm not s u r e t h a t that'; 400 MARKET STREET/10TH f l o o r Ph i l a d e l p h i a p a i9ioe KflIMi rruiCfl S K r w i m f PHONES O l l i n o o n<v John McAllister 172 1 so. I don't know, but I don't believe that 2 there was a difference between the civilian 3 v e r s i o n and the version s up pl i ed to the Navy A in terms of f o rm u la ti o n. 5 JY M R . L E D W I T H : 6 W e l l , you w e r e at that point -- oh, you w e r e 7 M a n a g e r of T e c h n i c a l S e r v i c e s fro m '66 to *70; is tha t 8 ig h t ? . 9 That's correct. 1 0 !* Ana R e s e a r c h E n g i n e e r from *64 to '66 in 1 1 r e n t o n ; is that r i g h t ? 12 . That's correct. 13 . In those p o s i t i o n s , you would know the 1L o n t e n t of -- a s b e s t o s c o n t e n t of the p r o d u c t s manufac- 1 5 ured by BEH, w o u ldn't you? 1 6 MR. CLANCY : Objection. 1 7 THE WITNESS: Yes, yes, but I just 1 8 said I thi n k that sofjr as I r e m e m b e r , t h e r e 1 9 was no d i f f e r e n c e in a s b e s t o s c o n t e n t b e t w e e n 20 that Super Powerhouse made for civilian 21 consumption and that Super Powerhouse Cement 22 m a d e for N a v y s p e c i f i c a t i o n s . T h a t ' s in 23 terms of a s b e s t o s c o n t e n t . Now, at one 2 A poi n t in tim e , t h e r e was a s u p e r i m p o s e d 25 Navy specification that dealt with chloride 400 MARKET STREET/IOTH f l o o r PHILADELPHIA. PA 19106 t KflIPfl-CONfn AJKXIATfJ PHONES (2151928 9300 John McAllister 1 t r s * c o r r o s i o n c r i c k i n g i n h i b i t i o n s c') it r e l a t e d to S u p e r P o w e r h o u s e C e m e n t . s And in that instance, the cement supplied for i, that purpose had a different formulation than 5 Super Powerhouse Cement supplied for both 6 civilian consumption and normal Navy 7 consumption. S >Y MR. L E O W I T H : 9 1 0 T h e d i f f e r e n c e i n v o l v e d t h e a d d i t i o n s '* 1 1 O d i u . si l i c i t . Chloride in hib it in o / ^ h e n i 12 Now, you testified this mo rj^ng that 13 hret and BEH had distributors. 1 L Yes. 1 5 W e l l , w h e n y o ^ t re h i r e d by E h r e t in 1 9 5 2 , 1 6 u had nothing to with distributors, did you? 1 7 No . I imply that I did? 18 T 's okay. . 1 9 20 21 22 23 Out C j lab k * jLi u 1 And you testified, I believe, this morning perhaps I'm wrong, but did you say there were rkmen Compensation claims against BEH? That's my ) MARKET STREET/10TH f l o o r Ph il a d e l p h ia pa 1 9 1 understanding. KniPSI COHin AJJOCI&TfJ PHONES I2 1 S I9 ? 6 '9 3 0 0 John McAllister 176 i I ( ? c 1 C 1 1 12 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 i 7 1 6 1 9 2D 21 22 23 24 25 inu,* ` th* 'n.ition fro. Beldwin-Ehr.t-HilI ,0 eene * Yes, sir. Before thet change over took place, what " roue position? I believe you testified tha, y0u 8 r e th* Sales Department. ' My job title was M a n a g e r of Technical f v i c e s . And as such, I r ep or t ed to Miles Wilson, * V i c e - P r e s i d e n t in c h a r g e of. S a l e s . Were you i n v o l v e d in the sale of p r o d u c t s ? Not d i r e c t l y . i -- 0ne 0 f my r e s p o n s i b i l i t i e s * to a n s w e r q u e s t i o n s by c u s t o m e r s for users of our oduct line, r e l a t i v e to the t e ch ni c al a p p l i c a t i o n s , ^notations of the products. And in 1968, whan there came the change over Keene, did your position change or job r e s p o n ibiliti MARKET STREET/10TH floor L* Philadelphia pa 19106 F-- KAIMt.rruicA phones ____ John M c A l l i s t e r 177 change? 0 u w e r e w i t h B a ld w i n - E h rreett - Hh iilili a n d ake over by Keene? w h^e n Keene form. MS. KAHN: Objection t I 1 ( 11 12 13 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 CLANCY: WhejTs the objection? "* by take over * r . w h e t y o ....... MR. CL Y : Well, the transition or bhateve tock Purchase, acquisition. Purch KAHN; Let's say stock M R . C L A N C Y : I d 0 n .t want tQ characterize f0 r old times sales this r e l a t i o n s h i p . i * j uS t __ MR . CLANCY : MS. K A h N : If y o u s a i d s t o c k p u r c h a s e , '> rt j i et iun TM Whe n you were an e m p l oy e e of B a l d w i n - E h r e t - l at c o m p a r e d to when you were an e m p l o y e e of Keene, t h e r e any c h a n g e in the p r o d u c t l the same products? lines, did they There were, , believe, on, or too a r k e t s t r e e t / io t h f l o o r L> 'H ILA D E l PH IA PA 19106 A KniPfi-COMCn A K r V 'lATCt new product PHONES l t n e ` added. I den', r , . ,, her u ,, (ch a* But non were delted? ' 1 , M n k < t '1 " " I 'kily h.t ,,,y uyre I p r i o r to .y h l v i n o b (en d 1 s c h . r 9 ,d by I fne, ( l c i : 11 1 ? 1 3 1 < 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 1 9 2D 21 22 23 24 23 f M R . CLANCY: What p r o d u c t s d i d K e e n e c o n t i n u e to l that were sold by B a l d w i n - E h r e t - H i l l ? So far as my r e c o l l e c t i o n serv e s , * e n t i r e pro d u c t line of B a l d w i n - E h r e t - H i l l * s o l d to all c u s t o m e r s by K eene. ^ >i. Your pos1tj^>--Ts S a s s is ta nt to the c h n i c a l S u p e r v I t a f ^ i n T i s T e c h n i c a l S u p e r v i s o r fo H# BFH as Ra l d w i n - E h r e t - H i l l , what was W-- * * * ^ A ^ * - ^ ^ 4 > ( MARKET STREET/10TM FLOOR PH ILAD ELPH IA PA 19106 J 'F I L J u l u f f WIIPSI-COMin B IH V iO T ff PHONES t? 1.1Qhfi o w - John McAllister 179 1 2 3 4 5 6 m o r e t h a n & & & * % Toff9 7 Oh, yes, there were more than two 8 nu T i M iin'.! L i i i > ii 11 i i i Lf T h . And BEH had brochures? 1 0 Ve s . 1 1 !* And did BEH send these b r oc hu r es out to 12 l o t e n t i a l c u s t o m e r s ? 13 Yes 1 U ' And those potentialcustomers 15 iovernment ? included the 1 6 1 l a ssume so. 17 Is it fair to sayth a t B E H a c t i v e l y 18 t t e m p t e d to sell its p r o d u c t s . t o co ns ume rs ? 19 . If they did not, they were living in a 20 r e a m w o r l d . 21 Thank you. 22 Now, when you became an employee of eene after 1968, did Keene also have a similar ales staff? Yes . 400 MARKET STREE7/10TH FLOOR PH ILA D ELPH IA PA 19106 t KniPfJ-COHifl AUOOftTU PHONES l?15)9?8-9300 John Me Alt is t tr 180 Q . " ** ** l* r 9 e r BEH-S sales staff? A. Yes. 3' And they * U o aggressively tried to get a here of the insulation market? * Yes. ' *nd that share 6f t h . < n l u l , tion . 4rk#t ( I 1 ( 11 12 1 2 1 4 1 5 16 1 7 18 1 9 20 21 22 22 24 25 'U t d <nelud' *" United I b eli eve so. States Govern,,? V c u t e s t i f i e d th., i,, 1 9 6 A, you b e c , Be th# ompany s , BEH Company rep to NIMA. Yes. And you re associ.,. vith Tecbnfc, t nd R e s e a r c h C o . . i , ,, . .,, G o v e r n . , , L i a i s o n C o . . i , ,, ^ an Ad Hoc basis Yes . - Was one of the f u n c t i o n s of NIMA, to serve ` * U a i s o n betueen the industry ,,,d potential 'tomers as far as e d u c a t i n g the c o n s u m e r about the dustry's products? I think so. They periodically published t i d e s as an o r g. n i t , , i0 n , u h i c h e r e e d u c a t i o n a l in tu re . J tffY e d v o a t e t h e c * * t iri 'ufacturid by N I M A m e m b e r i < -t n m a r k e t STREET/10TH f l o o r PHILADELPHIA PA 19106 si 1 t KAIPIJ COHfft AiiOCIftTCi PHONES (215) 926-9300 w<,, John Mt A I M s t r 1 r ,, p , ct to t h . ,, ,, 0< tht term p o t t n t j > u d0 .......... l' -- * * ............. .. ,o 3 f ............. . " h ' C '' 4 "of a s b e s t o s i s ? -- ..................... 5 (i______________-_-_ar_m-- d ^ Ijfor m e ? i . i.he B v 7 c t irn 7 W i t h r ** P c t to the use of the 8 Ijor the h e a l t h h a z a r d r e l a t e d to a s b potential 9 l!A 10 jiQ 1 * Yes. T * you a . r e ^ r e f e r r i n g to the specific 11 * " ^ * he P> ^ ' * 12 e r e i n v o l v e d ? o' - M e , , ,, ur ,, ,, ...... . MR. LEDWITH: Objection. M S . -K A H N : O b j e c t to t h e f o r m . --- m ^ T T , ObjULlTTn.' t h e W IT NE S S : A p ot en t i a l hazard of a s b e s t o s i s is not g e o g r a p h i c a l l y l i m i t e d . 18 JjBY M R . C O S T A N T I N O ; . Are you talking about finished products? I'* t a l k i n g a b o u t a i r b o r n e a s b e s t o s . it kno w , no b o u n d . r i * . J, , t is in f , c , , 1 r b p r n e S b . s t o , th. p o t . n t i . l b . z . r d , or , , b e t t 0 , t , ,, w h e r e v e r it is. -c tit t *s-- r r r a T T 25 -------- T ----- L I I U ft p n 400 MARKET STREET/10TH FLOOR PM,LOELH,. ,,,06 Ir ' t . KniKfl-tOHtn U O O R T U PHONES (?1SI 97B.9-VY1 __John M c A l l i s t e r 1 98 1 J L JLLL ~~' ^ ~ * * * * H i C m e r n w tiif ? Inspector ore * respirator? A. t I don't remember. W o u l d y o u tell us if he e v e r a d v i s e d t h G o v e r n m e n t I n s p e c t or ,0 v , ar , r e s pi r at or ? ^ * Q . I A. I oon't remember. D < d y o u e a r a r e s p i r a t o r at Yes . time? Q . When you speak of m . j o / u s e r s of your 1 c Products, l , f s encompass the i y period fro. 195Q 11 to a p p r o x i m a t e l y 1 970, and a l j / r o d u c t s that you were 12 i n v o l v e d u i t h . U h e n y o u , ^ - a k of .............. . . . , h . 1 3 Government a major u s.r f , product? 1 A *" 1 h,ve no Wno^iedge of breakdoun of total 1 5 s h i p m e n t s to c u s t o m / s by u s e r c a t e g o r y or c l a s s i f i c a t i oj, 16 a - PO you h/ve any k n o v l e d g e of the sales of the 1 7 Keene Corporat w a n .^ , . , f at that time b e t w e e n 1 9 6 6 and 1 9 7 0 ? 18 MS. K A H N : I .object to the form. 1 9 MR. COSTANT1N0: What's the matter 20 with the form? 21 THE W I T N E S S : K e e n e was not in the 22 i n s u l a t i o n b u s i n e s s , as far as I k n o w in 23 24 BY MR. C O S T A N T I N O : 25 " B e t u e e n 1960 and 1966, do you have a ny k no wl ed ge OO MARKET STREET/10TM FLOOR Ph ila d elp h ia pa 19106 K f t l W COHffl AfJOCIATfl PHONES l9 K ifiO C cl**/*v \ A ,, * John McAllister 199 f t h * * * les oi in su la t io n pr od uc t s? ' By whom? By, let s see, you were with h e H for that >eriod of time. I 1 ( 1 I 12 13 1 u 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 S 1 9 20 21 22 22 29 25 r9* *r., Plant and . capacity 1l1' I wi a nd know . that quarter billion dollars what the Valley was a p p r o x i m a t e ly 1 1 . l u e of c a l c i u m s i l i cca*ttee . IT h.a.v e no k n o w l ed g e of "*' th ' " <n* r* t ...... . coustical board sales were. acoustical t U .s, u, of that three and a quarter, did you y m i l l i o n o r b i l l i o n ? 1 Million. ' S `d t0 ,he U n i t 'd States G ov er n me n t? MR. CLANCY: Objecti THE WITNESS: I i ^ J u a t e d earlier, I have no k n o w l e d g e ol/fTe b r e a k d o w n of s h i p m e n t s by u s e j , ^ , r e s t . MR. COSTANTINO: op f o y r c if t b . y u , r . , ,, a j o r bu),er o u t 0f (t t h r e e i n / a q u a r t e r m i l l i o n ? MR. CLANCY: Objection. THE WITNESS: Was who a major iarket street/ioth floor HILADELPHIA p a 19106 KfllPtl-CO ttM A lfO f lOTff f?1p*h1oQ3nBe OsW\ I a5 J o h n M c A It i st e r BY MR. C O S T A N T I N O : 1 1 12 1 2 1 i, 1 5 1 6 1 7 13 1 9 2 0 27 22 23 2 U 25 10 ` e - vn" r ri to the N l n ,, ............ j m u . Ju Annapo[jj# 4nd dfd y 6 y ~ :h*" * " i r ' ,h* hat you Supplied? S p e c i f i c a l l y , n, ont.n, of impl es as s u b m i t t i n g s a m p l e s to 1 y to f i c G o v e r n m e n t s p e c i f i c a t i o n`s on a hy s i harjcteri sties basis, not a chemical sties b a s i s so, the chemical content, then, of th, oduc t * t h a , y o u ......... H i n , t o t h , N . , y 1n t t i e u l . r , w a , t h , ....... . , h . c h e . i c . l c o n t e n t " r P r o d u c '1 bting ,old for commercial u ,,? Yes. * nd would you -- w i t h d raw that. B,d ,h' s' orodutta that you sold N.vy, did they dif<tr P"hysically ,, ,, r n . i . i ,, , > t h e p r o d u c t , y o u w e r , , . i , ....... . " p r l flliirn n u j i i i iuii, THE knowledge. WITNESS: MR. COSTANTINO: Not to ,h, be,, e f my Th' y l 0ked , h ' he product, you were U n g .......... s t r e e t , io t h f l o o r LA D E LP H IA PA 1B1QE would that ^ 1 C - U A ' M f . fAilfo be a c c u r a t e ? PHONES J o h n H A l lister 202 A* - T h *y c a m e f r o DPftrt uction that was made for commercial consumption. * V 0 U r * n t h e $ e c o m m e r cci1ali --- t h e s e p r o d u c t s w, V(r yo y 0u elllns e ,h. r ,, i V y ' you ran them off the same manufacturing process * ,, 6 ||a l l ? SS a nd a s s e m b l y line an d Th a f s what it's all about. And you ran them out of t h . the same molds and i n b* " `M l y ' >. P r c d u c t s sold to th. N.v,, ,h.n th. ones you u t r , s e c commercially? S . K A H N : *I o b i ^ T tt. IT t h i n k t h, i s S T l X i t n a s s expressed the ''" 't* 0f ^ X ^ w l e d g e of times - - in this area a n u m b e r TM E W I T N E S S : Normal lot v a r i a t i o n s ^ t o c c u r in any c o m m e r c i a l p r o d u c t i o n of insulation occurred with the Navy samples, s well as those s u p p l i e d to c o m m e r c e . R. COSTANTINO: / Just I oc m a r k e t s t r e e t / io t h f l o o r I Ph il a d e l p h ia p a i# io e n o r m a ' I* ^ K _ V n iM r n a t i ons PHONES