Document 2Rvr8bdq8ggb1N7Z6ZwarJvmp

in; the united states district court ; FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW JERSEY <'JX AMLAND PROPERTIES CORPORATION, ) ) Plaintiff, ) ) vs. ) ALUMINUM COMPANY OF AMERICA, ) ) Defendant ) ) and Third Party Plaintiff, ) vs. ) ) TRI-TERMINAL CORPORATION, j ivii Action Mo* 86-1830 et al., ) ) Third Party Defendants. ) Deposition of THOMAS M. BISTLINE February 9, 1988 ^aApou/tcg cT2epo/tttng Company (314) 621-8883 Qegistawd mmd ^>epmtm WATER PCB-SD0000027241 1 2 No. 31 42 5 3, 3-A through 3-0, inclusive 6 4, 4-A through 7 4-II, inclusive 8 5, 5-A through 5-G, inclusive 9 6-A,6--B,6--C 10 7-A through 11 7-F, inclusive 12 7-G 13 8-A through 8-LL, inclusive 14 9-A through IS 9-S, inclusive 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 INDEX TO EXHIBITS DESCRIPTION Subpoena & Notice Sales Summary Search Aroclor Product Labels Pydraul Product Labels Purchasing & Shipping Documents Call Reports Advertisements Advertisements Pydraul Brochures Aroclor Brochures PAGE 8 11 54 64 77 88 97 100 104 122 WATER PCB-SD0000027242 1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF NEW JERSEY 1 3 AMLAND PROPERTIES CORPORATION, 4 Plaintiff, 5 vs. 6 ALUMINUM COMPANY OF AMERICA, 7 Defendant 8 and Third Party Plaintiff, 9 vs. 10 TRI-TERMINAL CORPORATION, et al., 11 Third Party Defendants. 12 ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) ) | Civil Action No. 86-1830 ) ) ) ) 13 The deposition of a witness, THOMAS M. BISTLINE, 14 produced, sworn and examined on the part of the plaintiff, 15 taken to be used in an action pending in the United States 16 District Court for the District of New Jersey, wherein 17 AMLAND PROPERTIES CORPORATION is Plaintiff; ALUMINUM COMPANY 18 OF AMERICA is Defendant and Third Party Plaintiff, and 19 TRI-TERMINAL CORPORATION, et al., are Third Party Defendants, 20 pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, on the 21 9th day of February, 1988, at the law offices of Greensfelder, 22 Hemker, Wiese, Gale and Chappelow, 18 South Broadway, in the 23 the City of St. Louis, State of Missouri, before me, Evelyn 24 M. Weir, Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public 25 WATER PCB-SD0000027243 1 within and for the City of St. Louis, State of Missouri. 2 oOo 3 4 The plaintiff was represented by Mr. Robert A. 5 Wayne of the law firm of Robinson, Wayne, Levin, Riccio and 6 LaSala, Gateway One, Newark, New Jersey 07102. 7 The defendant and third party plaintiff was 8 represented by Mr. R. L. Holz, Senior Assistant General 9 Counsel, Aluminum Company of America, 1501 Alcoa Building, 10 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15219. 11 oOo 12 THOMAS M. BISTLINE, 13 a witness, of lawful age, being produced, sworn and examined 14 in behalf of the plaintiff, testified as follows: 15 DIRECT EXAMINATION 16 BY MR. WAYNE: 17 Q Good morning, Mr. Bistline. My name is Mr. 18 Wayne. This is a deposition. I'm certain you're familiar 19 with the rules of a deposition. I represent Amiand 20 Properties Corporation which is the plaintiff in an action 21 which has been commenced in the United States District 22 Court for the District of New Jersey against the Aluminum 23 Company of America and other third party defendants. 24 As you know, there will be a series of 25 questions asked to you under oath. If you don't understand WATER PCB-SD0000027244 1 any of my questions or if you wish me to rephrase the 2 question, please let me know. 3 A I will. Thank you, Mr. Wayne. 4 Q And, of course, Mr. Holz is here representing S Aluminum Company of America. If he has any objections, 6 he'll place them on the record and if he does have an 7 objection, at least we ought to wait until his objection 8 is stated on the record before we respond to any question. 9 A Fine. 10 Q Sir, I'm certain that you're familiar with the 11 rules of a deposition. Are you an attorney? 12 A Yes, I am. 13 Q And where are you permitted to practice law? 14 A New York and Missouri. 15 Q What is your present employment, sir? 16 A I'm Litigation Counsel at Monsanto Company here 17 in St. Louis. 18 Q And how long have you been in that position? 19 A In that particular position, about a year and 20 a half. I've been employed by Monsanto for a total of six 21 years. 22 Q Prior to the year and a half in the position as 23 Litigation Counsel, what was your role or duties at Monsanto? 24 A My title was Assistant Litigation Counsel. The 25 duties, my role were approximately the same as they are now. WATER PCB-SD0000027245 1 Q What are the duties and responsibilities of 2 Litigation Counsel at Monsanto? 3 A My responsibilities include the management, 4 supervision of litigation matters to which I am assigned. 5 I have in addition other administrative responsibilities 6 within Monsanto which don't directly affect litigation but 7 have to do with personnel matters and other things. 8 Q Generally, what are those other duties? 9 A They include supervision of legal assistants, 10 assistance with the audit of legal matters of Monsanto on 11 legal matters and related activities. 12 Q Prior to becoming involved at Monsanto, did you 13 have any other employment either as an attorney or otherwise*! 14 A Yes. I was associated with the law firm of 15 Simson, Thatcher and Bartlett in New York for a period of 16 eight years before I came to Monsanto. 17 Q Are you presently designated the records 18 custodian of Monsanto Company? 19 A Yes, well, not -- I'll ask you to be more 20 specific. I can say I am for certain purposes custodian 21 of certain records. I would not hold myself out to be 22 generally the records custodian of Monsanto. 23 Q Okay. What types of records are you the 24 custodian or designated as custodian at Monsanto? 25 A Custodian of records pertaining to polychlorinated WATER PCB-SD0000027246 1 biphenyls, PCBs. 2 Q When were you designated as such? 3 A At the time that I assumed management 4 responsibility for PCB litigation at Monsanto which was 5 approximately January of 1985. 6 Q And is that pursuant to some written policy in 7 effect at Monsanto, that you were designated as the custodiar 8 for those records? 9 A No. 10 Q Was it the result of just some internal decision 11 making? 12 A I would describe it as part of my responsibility 13 as management person for PCB litigation. 14 Q And you have held that role since approximately 15 1985? 16 A That * s correct. 17 Q In connection with that role and title, if I 18 could call it that, you're familiar with the recordkeeping | 19 policies of Monsanto with reference to the PCB matters? 20 A Yes, sir, I am. 21 Q And did you become familiar with those 22 recordkeeping policies in or about 1985? 23 A That's correct, although I probably knew 24 generally what those practices and policies were prior to 25 my assumption of the duties in PCB litigation. WATER PCB-SD0000027247 1 Q As part of your duties and responsibilities in 2 this role relating to the PCB records, did you become also 3 aware of the record keeping and maintenance policies 4 historically with respect to PCBs? 5 A Yes, that's correct. 6 Q Now, a subpoena and a notice to take deposition 7 was served upon Monsanto Company in this case. Could we 8 please mark for identification as, Lee, I'd like to do this 9 one a little distinctively as to how we marked the exhibits 10 in the prior deposition by calling this Plaintiff's 11 Monsanto Exhibit 1 and then we'11 mark it Plaintiff's 12 Monsanto 1 through whatever number. 13 MR. HOLZ: Okay. 14 (A document, handed to the reporter, was marked 15 for identification as Plaintiff's Monsanto Exhibit 1.) 16 Q I show you what's been marked Plaintiff's 17 Monsanto Exhibit 1, which is a copy of a subpoena issued 18 out of the United States District Court for the Eastern 19 District of Missouri to Monsanto together with an attached 20 notice to take deposition and a schedule for production of 21 documents. 22 I ask you, sir, if you're familiar with that 23 particular document? 24 A Yes, Mr. Wayne, I have seen this document. 25 q is that a copy of the subpoena and the notice WATER PCB-SD0000027248 1 to take deposition that was served on Monsanto Company? 2 A Yes, that's correct. 3 MR. HOLZ: Could I take a look at it? 4 Q Yes. In the course of your duties as the 5 records custodian for the PCBs records of Monsanto, did a 6 copy of the subpoena come to your attention? 7 A Yes, it did. 8 Q And was a search undertaken for the records 9 requested in the subpoena and the notice to take deposition? 10 A Yes, sir. 11 Q And was the search conducted by persons that 12 were designated by you or known to you? 13 A Yes, thats correct. The search was conducted 14 by Monsanto employees working in the Law Department under 15 my supervision. 16 Q And do you know what files or filing systems 17 were searched in order to respond to this subpoena? 18 A Yes. 19 Q And can you just tell me generally without being 20 specific about it what types of files were searched in order 21 to respond to the subpoena? 22 A Monsanto has over the years made several efforts, 23 several extraordinary efforts to collect all the documents 24 within the company that relate, pertain to PCBs. Those 25 documents have been located in a central location and it is WATER PCB-SD0000027249 1 those documents which were searched 2 Q Where is that central location? 3 A It's Monsanto World Headquarters. 4 Q Is that in St. Louis? 5 A St. Louis County, yes, sir. 6 Q That is at the offices where you have your 7 office? 8 A Yes, that's correct. 9 Q And this effort that you described to search 10 for PCB related records took place over a period of time? 11 A That's correct. 12 Q Do you know approximately what the time frame 13 was for gathering together of all PCB related documents into 14 one central location? 15 A I believe that time period has extended since 16 approximately 1971 and quite frankly, it continues. 17 Q And persons under your supervision then conducte* 18 the search and documents that were relevant and related to 19 the requests were gathered together for purposes of 20 submission to myself and counsel for Alcoa, is that correct? 21 A That's correct. 22 Q And copies of the documents that were referenced 23 were put together in packages and I assume submitted to me 24 and to Mr. Holz? 25 A That's correct. WATER PCB-SD0000027250 1 Q And did you bring, with you today the, what I 2 call the file originals or file copies of the documents j 3 which were submitted pursuant to the subpoena? 4 A Yes, I did. 5 Q Now, what I'd like to do, Mr. Bistline, is to 6 mark some of the documents in groupings together so that we 7 can discuss them as a group rather than one by one. So if 8 we could, please, I'd like to mark my copy of documents that 9 are entitled, "Sales Summary Search" and bear a number at 10 the bottom right-hand corner ALC 000001 through ALC 000086, 11 could we please mark that as Monsanto Exhibit 2? 12 (Documents, handed to the reporter, were marked 13 for identification as Plaintiff's Monsanto Exhibit 2.) 14 MR. HOLZ: May I ask, I see yours are bound 15 together in some fashion. Did you receive yours in that 16 fashion, because I did not. 17 MR. WAYNE: Okay. Looks to me like I did. It 18 appears to have only one staple in it but I can't swear to 19 that. 20 MR. H3LZ: Might we ask whether Monsanto's 21 original copy is so bound together? 22 THE WITNESS: Monsanto's original copy is not 23 so bound, Mr. Holz, and I would say that it's my belief that 24 when the records were transmitted both to Alcoa and the 25 plaintiff in this case, they were not stapled together. WATER PCB-SD0000027251 1 They were loose in the file. 2 MR. HOLZ: I would submit we do not have a 3 single document. 4 MR. WAYNE: Okay. I'm not marking them for 5 purposes of classifying them as a single document. We can 6 MR. HOLZ: If you want to take them as a group 7 of documents -- 8 MR. WAYNE: Yes, take them as a group of 9 documents and I'11 ask the questions -- 10 MR. HOLZ: -- with the Monsanto number, then I 11 understand that ALC 00000, five zeros, 1 -- 12 MR. WAYNE: Yes, five zeros through 86 -- 13 MR. HOLZ: Through four zeros 86, and you would 14 like to designate those as what? 15 MR. WAYNE: Monsanto Exhibit 2. Off the record. 16 (Whereupon, a short discussion was had off the 17 record.) 18 Q It appears, Mr. Bistline, that from the originals: 19 which you have brought with you today that the documents 20 ALC 000001 through ALC 000086 were grouped in various 21 groupings? 22 A That's correct. 23 Q And it appears that ALC 000001 through ALC 04 24 were grouped as one group? 25 A Yes. WATER PCB-SD0000027252 1 Q And that the sales summaries ALC 000005 through 2 ALC 000072 were individual sheets but were forming another 3 group? 4 A Right. What those are, Mr. Wayne, these ALC S 000005 through 00000 -- 000072, excuse me, or the backups 6 are the work papers from which the memoranda which was 7 grouped as ALC 000001 through 4 was based. 8 Q Okay. 9 A This is the data which supports this. 10 Q Okay, and then the next group of documents that 11 appear to be at least kept together in your file is ALC 12 000073 through ALC 000076? 13 A That's correct. 14 Q And those documents start with ALC 000073 which 15 says, "Sales Summary Search, All PCB Products, Alcoa 16 (Aluminum Company of America) Massena, New York, 1968-1977"? 17 A That's correct. 18 Q The next series of documents which appear to be 19 in a group are ALC 000077 through ALC 000081 and on the 20 first sheet there it states, "Sales Summary Search, All PCB 21 Products, Alcoa (Aluminum Company of America), Lafayette, 22 In.) For Indiana, 1968-1977? " 23 A That's correct. 24 Q And the final grouping of documents which bear 25 the number ALC 000082 through ALC 000086 has on the first WATER PCB-SD0000027253 1 page thereof, "Sales Summary Search, All PCB Products 2 Alcoa, (Aluminum Company of America)-Alcoa, Tn.) For 3 Tennessee, 1968 through 1977?" 4 A That's correct. 5 Q Now, if we could look at ALC 000001 through 6 A1C 000004 -- 7 A Yes. 8 Q I gather that this was a document prepared by 9 an employee of Monsanto for purposes of responding to the 10 subpoena? 11 A That's correct. 12 Q And was that person designated by you or under 13 your supervision who made this chart? 14 A Yes, that's correct. 15 Q And I gather from what you said earlier that the 16 documents ALC 000001 through 000004 were based upon 17 information contained in the sales summaries ALC 000005 18 through ALC 000072? 19 A That's correct. 20 Q Now, looking at the sales summaries, ALC 21 000005 through 000072 -- 22 A Yes. 23 Q -- can you describe for me what these forms are? 24 They're entitled, "Sales Summary." What are the forms? 25 A This is a document, computer generated document WATER PCB-SD0000027254 1 prepared by the accounting function at Monsanto which 2 tabulates on a periodic basis sales of Monsanto's products 3 by customer. This particular document, this is a series of 4 those documents that we have here identified as ALC 000005 5 through 000072. 6 Q Okay. 7 A Relating to different time periods. 8 Q And were these prepared by the accounting 9 department at Monsanto at or about the time referenced on 10 the sales summary sheets, i.e., there are some dates on the 11 various sheets running from December '59 on ALC 000005 up 12 through December '68 on 000072? 13 A That's my guess. 14 MR. HOLZ: I'm going to object to the form of 15 the question, Bob, as having no foundation. 16 Q All right. You may answer. 17 A That's my best information. Of course, I wasn't 18 present when these documents were prepared. They were 19 obtained from files which were represented to be documents 20 prepared in the ordinary course as described. 21 Q And what record or records would these sales 22 summaries have been based upon, to your knowledge and 23 understanding? 24 MR. HDLZ: I object again, same objection. 25 A According to the normal procedure following WATER PCB-SD0000027255 preparing reports of this type, these sales summary sheets would have been prepared from invoices and shipping documents reflecting sales of the products designated in the reports. Q And the invoices and the shipping documents were records -- strike that. Were the invoices and the shipping records documents that were kept and maintained in the ordinary course of Monsanto's business at or about the time of the various sales? \ MR. HOLZ: Same objection. A Yes. Q And are those invoices or the purchase orders X which form the basis of the computer generated sales studies i still in existence at Monsanto? A Well, let me say first of all that I didn't <0*) ? > reference purchase orders. Purchase orders would not be a 0 i ' document upon which this report is based. I* 'C<03 sa. * Q Shipping orders? A An invoice or a shipping document, shipping i invoice would be the appropriate document. By and large, ITncN\| l- those documents no longer exist. There may be some jjnj xj). ~' exceptions but in terms of having a complete set of those which would correlate with the numbers that appear on the 4 sales summaries, those we do not any longer have a complete ' N set of those documents. PENGADl in d y . SF-SEL-2547 WATER PCB-SD0000027256 Q And what was the purpose, if you know, of keeping sales summaries? A These particular documents, is that what you're referencing? Q Correct. MR. HOLZ: Same objection. A These documents were intended to provide the basis for financial and other reporting on a periodic basis that can be broken down in various ways. Q And over the years, has Monsanto relied upon the information contained in the sales summaries for making various business decisions along the way? MR. HOLZ: Same objection. A My best information is yes. Q Now, perhaps you can help us to explain some 5 of the coding or the references on the sales summary sheets. 7 If you could look at ALC 000005 over in the left-hand corner 8 there is a reference to 2A on the top in the left-hand cornel}? 19 A Yes. >0 Q Do you know what that reference is? 21 A I don't know what that particular number 12 references, Mr. Wayne. No, I don't. 23 Q Okay. In the next left-hand side there's a 24 number 10 and then it goes 4595 and then 200? 25 A Yes. WATER PCB-SD0000027257 p e n g a d in d y/ S F -S E L-2547 1 Q And then reading across it says Pydraul 200? 2 A That's correct. 3 Q Do you know what the number references are in 4 the beginning of that, i.e., 10, 4595, 200? 5 A I'm advised that's a code number which 6 represents the product Pydraul A200. 7 Q Next going down, reading down on the left-hand 8 column, there's a designation E, then reading across 15850, 9 0805 Aluminum Company? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Do you know what the designation E stands for? 12 A I don't know how to break down that series of 13 letters and numbers other than to say that part of that 14 code is, the 15850 series of numbers was the number which 15 indicated Aluminum Company of America as the customer. 16 The other letters and numbers in that set may 17 indicate a specific location. 18 I don't have the knowledge to break that code, 19 and I'm not aware of anybody who does at Monsanto, who 20 knows how to break down that code. 21 Q I see. So have you made inquiry of others within 22 Monsanto to determine how if at all to break down that code? 23 A Yes. 24 Q And your inquiry has led you to the conclusion 25 that there is no one who can determine that? WATER PCB-SD0000027258 1 A We have not identified a person who can do that 2 for us. 3 Q So that each of the numbers reading in that 4 column, there are four numbers, below are the code numbers 5 for Aluminum Company? 6 A Well -- 7 MR. HOLZ: What four numbers are you referring 8 to? 9 Q Let me rephrase the question. There's a series 10 of four numbers in the second column -- 11 MR. HOLZ: I see five numbers. 12 THE WITNESS: Referring to the numbers that 13 follow the number 15850? 14 Q Yes. 15 A 0805? 16 Q Yes. I apologize for not making it clear. 17 A That's quite all right. 18 Q Why don't we rephrase the question and make it 19 absolutely clear. 20 There are three series of numbers reading across 21 in that particular column on four separate lines, the first 22 one being 15850, 08, 05? 23 A Yes. 24 Q And then reading down there are a series of 25 additional numbers in each of the next three lines below? WATER PCB-SD0000027259 A Yes. 1 Q I gather that all of those numbers there are 2 code numbers relating to Aluminum Company of America? 3 A Yes. 4 MR. HOLZ: I'm sorry, I misunderstood. You're 5 referring to the 15850 repeated 1, 2, 3, 4 times? 6 Q That's right, as well as the other series of 7 numbers. 8 MR. HOLZ: I object on the basis that he just 9 10 testified that they didn't know what the, as I understood 11 his testimony, the 0805 or the 1601 meant. 12 Is that not what you testified? 13 THE WITNESS: We cannot specifically break down 14 what the precise designation of that, those four digit 15 sets of numbers are, Mr. Holz. 16 We believe that they refer in some fashion to 17 Alcoa but we're without specific knowledge as to specific 18 reference. 19 Q Okay, all right, and Aluminum refers to 20 Aluminum Company of America, as far as you know? 21 A That's correct. 22 Q And this sales summary sheet and others where 23 Aluminum Company is referenced would mean that these were 24 sales by Monsanto to Aluminum Company of America, is that 25 correct? WATER PCB-SD0000027260 1 A That's correct. 2 Q Now, in the next column going over to the right, 3 there's a column for pounds and a column for dollars? 4 A That's correct. 5 Q And I gather that 3,870 on the first line of 6 the column reflects 3,870 pounds of materials? 7 A That's correct. 8 Q That are referenced on that particular sales 9 line? 10 A That's correct. 11 Q And going over to the right, 1,021 would 12 reflect dollars of the invoice? 13 A Dollar amount that was billed to Alcoa as a 14 result of that quantity of product. 15 Q Okay. From this sales summary document, one 16 would be able to tell what kind of containers and size of 17 containers that were used for a particular shipment or not? 18 A No one could tell from that. 19 Q This is a total of pounds referenced on a 20 particular sale? 21 A It's a summary of sales, year to date as of 22 December, 1959. 23 Q Okay, and I gather that on each of the next 24 series of pages -- strike that. 25 Let's take it one at a time. Going to ALC WATER PCB-SD0000027261 1 000006 -- 2 A Yes. 3 Q --there's a reference to Pydraul 600? 4 A That's correct. S Q That's a different product and it reflects 6 sales summaries for that particular product, year to date, 7 is that correct? 8 A That's correct. 9 Q Looking at the bottom of 000006, there are some 10 additional columns that are filled in on that reference to 11 Pydraul 625, the columns are sales in months, sales in 12 year to date, and total sales last year? 13 A That's correct. 14 Q So that the entries in the various columns 15 relate to either monthly, annual and total sales for the 16 prior year, is that correct? 17 A I would interpret that to be, the first two 18 columns to be referring to December of 1959, the next set 19 of two columns referring to the year of 1959 and the final 20 set of two columns refer to the year 1958. 21 Q So it's the priorcalendar year? 22 A That * s correct. 23 Q And is that method of interpretation of the 24 sales summaries the same for ALC 000007 and 8? 25 A Yes, that's correct. WATER PCB-SD0000027262 1 Q Now, skipping over to ALC 000011 -- 2 A Yes. 3 Q -- this one is entitled, "Sales Summary Pounds 4 by Month (Thousands)"? 5 A Yes. 6 Q And can you tell me what the column is that has 7 the number 11 in it? I can't read that on my copy, and I'm 8 looking at it, it's on the left-hand side. 9 A I believe the heading on that is "Product 10 Group" up at the top. 11 Q Product Group, okay. 12 A Yes. 13 Q And do you know what the code number 11 refers 14 to? 15 A I don't have any direct knowledge of that, no. 16 Q Okay, and under the column name of customer or 17 product it has 1040, 260 Aroclor, d-i-s-t, number 1248? 18 A Yes, that's correct. 19 Q Do you know what the numbers 1040 and 260 20 refer to? 21 A Yes, those are numbers referring to the product 22 Aroclor distilled number 1248. 23 Q On my copy the numbers in the various columns 24 going across to the right have been somewhat cut off in the 25 copying. WATER PCB-SD0000027263 1 A Yes, it wasn't in the copying. I think it was 2 in the preparation of the document. It's the same in mine. 3 Q All right. Is your copy readable in terms of 4 the numbers going across? 5 A I would suspect no more so than yours. 6 Q Okay. 7 A I must apologize. It looks like we cut those 8 a little close. 9 Q Okay. When you say you cut those a little 10 close, in terms of the photocopying from another document? 11 A No, the way this document was prepared, this 12 sheet contains information relating to a large number of 13 customers other than Aluminum Company of America. 14 In responding to your subpoena, we redacted from 15 the document we produced to you information that did not 16 relate to Alcoa and it appears as though the person who 17 prepared this particular document covered up a little bit 18 some of the numbers that did relate to Alcoa. 19 I'd be happy to go back to the original and 20 produce for you gentlemen one that has the numbers in a 21 legible fashion. 22 Q I would appreciate it if you would do that for 23 us. Okay, and since my copy is a little difficult to read 24 also, perhaps we could just identify the column headings, 25 the second line down of columns where the numbers are WATER PCB-SD0000027264 1 related, it says last year sales, I believe? 2 A That's correct. 3 Q And that would reference sales for the prior 4 calendar year of that product? 5 A That's correct. 6 Q And in the next column over, what is the number 7 also? I cannot read my copy. 8 A It says -- 9 Q "Sales" something? 10 A Sales current year to date, I believe that would 11 be the third heading column on that line. 12 Q Okay, that would reflect sales during the 13 calendar year in which the document references in this 14 case? 15 A 1960. 16 Q 1960? 17 A I apologize for the poor quality of that copy. 18 Q The next series of columns are the months during 19 that particular year? 20 A Yes, that's correct. 21 Q And the numbers for those columns would reflect 22 sales during each month? 23 A That's correct. 24 Q Is this number a dollar number or a pounds 25 number? WATER PCB-SD0000027265 P L N o A U l i u OY. S f--S E L -2 5 4 7 1 A I would suspect that it's pounds. The document 2 is dated sales summary pounds by month. 3 Q That's what I thought and -- 4 MR. HOLZ: May I -- 5 Q If you want to clarify something, go right 6 ahead. 7 8 EXAMINATION BY MR. HOLZ: 9 Q Looking at ALC 000011, the line that reads under 10 product reads 11 and reads 1040, 260 Aroclor d-i-s-t, 1248, 11 there are no numbers shown across from that on that line, 12 is that not correct? 13 MR. WAYNE: I think there are numbers, they're 14 just cut off. IS MR. HOLZ: I'm suggesting those numbers cut off 16 belonged to the line above. 17 THE WITNESS: That's possible. I can't tell 18 from looking at this document. I'd have, to examine the 19 original from which it was prepared. 20 MR. HOLZ: I'm suggesting if you look at the 21 other pages, Bob, I think you will see that the line 22 contains the product designation,has no numbers, and then 23 under that you get the quantity. 24 MR. WAYNE: I'm not going to argue. If we get 25 a better copy, I think it would be clear, so why don't we WATER PCB-SD0000027266 1 wait on that? 2 THE WITNESS: Anything I would say on that at 3 this point would be speculation. 4 MR. HOLZ: That's not a problem. We'11 wait to 5 look at the better copy. 6 THE WITNESS: Very good. 7 Q (By Mr. Wayne) Now, from ALC 000012 through 8 ALC 000025, there are additional sales summaries, pounds 9 by months, thousandths record, is that correct? 10 A Yes. 11 Q And is the method of reading them and 12 interpreting them the same as for the document, document 13 000011 that we just discussed? 14 A Yes. 15 Q And on my copy of 000016, I have a number in the 16 third column under, "Sales Current Year to Date" as 2. Is 17 that what yours reflects? 18 A That1s what mine appears to reflect, yes, 19 although the top is cut off. 20 Q Okay. Looking at ALC 000019-- 21 A Yes. 22 Q -- the numbers in the column, "Sales Current 23 Year to Date and March" appear on my copy to be 1 for each 24 of the two referenced Aluminum Company sales, is that 25 correct? WATER PCB-SD0000027267 1 A That appears to be what my copy also reflects. 2 Q Okay. Now, skipping over to ALC 000028 -- 3 A Yes. 4 Q -- this references the product Pydraul F9 for 5 December, 1963, is that correct? 6 A That's correct. 7 Q I just want to be clear on the dollar column on 8 the far right. On the first entry on the line Aluminum 9 Company on the far right, I have what appears to be 1,173 10 or 2, I can't read that. 11 A Mine appears to be 1,172, if you care to examine 12 that. 13 Q Yes, okay. 14 MR. HOLZj That's what it looks like to me. 15 Q And the next line down that same far column 16 appears to be 781? 17 A That's correct. 18 Q And the last line on mine I can't make out. 19 Could you tell me what that is? 20 A It appears to be 7,220 and I can't make out the 21 last digit, it may be a 7. 22 Q Would you be able to just mark down on your list 23 and see if the precise number can be determined? 24 A Yes. 25 Q Thank you. Now, in the upper right-hand corner WATER PCB-SD0000027268 1 of this sales summary sheet as well as others, there is a 2 little box? 3 A Headed "Page Number"? 4 Q "Page Number"? 5 A Yes. 6 Q And that has a number on it? 7 A Yes. 8 Q What number is that? 9 A On the document bearing number 000028, the 10 number on my copy appears to be page 442. 11 Q Okay, and are these sales summary pages -- 12 strike that. 13 Do these sales summary documents run seriatim, 14 by numbers seriatim by the numbers on the pages? 15 A I'm not sure I quite understand. Allow me, let 16 me explain my understanding, each of these pages, for 17 example page ALC 000028, each page is taken from a larger 18 document. 19 Within that larger document, the pages are 20 numbered consecutively. This appears to be page 442 of the 21 report generated for December, 1963. 22 Q Okay, and what is the larger document that 23 you're referring to? 24 A That would be the total compilation of data of 25 this type for all Monsanto products, all companies for the 29 WATER PCB-SD0000027269 1 relevant time period 2 Q Okay. And in the left-hand corner in the box, 3 there's a reference on 000028 to the word, "Direct 2"? 4 A Yes. 5 Q What does that refer to? 6 A I'm without knowledge of what that means. 7 Q All right. 8 MR. HOLZ: I think it would be good to let the 9 record show that the 2 was an Arabic numeral 2. 10 Q Okay. Skipping over to ALC 000031 -- 11 A Yes. 12 Q -- in the far right-hand column under "Dollars" 13 could you tell me what that number is? 14 A My copy says 809. 15 Q All right, and on 000032 -- 16 A Yes. 17 Q -- could you read across the column starting 18 with pounds under sales this year to date and going to sales, 19 total sales last year across? 20 A The entry under pounds sales this year to date 21 appears on my copy to be either 1130 or 1150. I can't tell 22 which. 23 Q Could you check that one as well? 24 A I'11 attempt to get all these numbers. 25 Q And I gather that the ones reading further 30 WATER PCB-SD0000027270 1 across are, also appear to be cut off on my copy in terms 2 of dollars under sales this year to date? 3 A Right, that appears on my copy to be 283. 4 Q The next column is 400? S A 400 and the last entry appears to be 117. 6 Q Okay. 7 A But I'11 confirm those numbers for you. 8 Q Okay, thank you. Going to ALC 000069 -- 9 MR. HOLZ: Off the record. 10 (Whereupon, a short discussion was had off the 11 record.) 12 Q Under the sales this year to date, again I think 13 we have the same situation as the earlier one, there seems 14 to be some cut off numbers. I'm not certain whether those 15 numbers relate to sales to Aluminum Company or to some other 16 entity above the line. Would you check that for us? 17 A Yes, I will. 18 Q Thank you. The next series of documents 19 starting with ALC 000073 through 000076 -- 20 A Yes. 21 Q -- appear to be sales summary search for 22 Massena, New York? 23 A That's correct. 24 Q Can you describe what ALC 000073 is and from 25 what document it was prepared? WATER PCB-SD0000027271 1 A ALC 000073 is a summary prepared by my staff 2 of sales to Alcoa, Massena, New York. It is based upon the 3 documents attached as ALC 000073, 74 through 76. 4 Q Now, the documents 000074 through 000076 -- 5 A Yes. 6 Q -- are entitled, at least on my copy, "Organic 7 Division Functional Fluid Products/Customer Sales Report"? 8 A That's correct. 9 Q And were these computer generated reports done 10 by the accounting department of Monsanto? 11 A That's correct. 12 Q And were these computer generated reports done 13 in the ordinary course of Monsanto's business over a period 14 of time? IS A I'm advised that they were. 16 Q And what record or records were these computer 17 generated sales reports based upon? 18 A These would be the same type of record that the 19 previous report that we have already spoken about were 20 based on. They would be sales invoices and shipping 21 invoices. 22 Q And the shipping documents and the sales 23 invoices were prepared by Monsanto's employees in the course 24 of their employment? 25 A That's my information, yes. WATER PCB-SD0000027272 1 Q Now, the sales reports reflect a particular 2 Aluminum Company of America plant location, i.e. in this 3 case Massena, New York? 4 A That's correct. 5 Q Whereas the sales summaries that we discussed 6 previously do not specifically delineate a specific Alcoa 7 plant? 8 A That's correct. 9 Q So I can understand the report, 000074 through 10 000076 ~ 11 A Yes. 12 Q -- can you explain what the first column is on 13 the left-hand side? 14 A The printed form, is that what you're talking 15 about? 16 Q Yes. 17 A Three letters, MGR, I believe that to be a 18 reference to the sales manager or the manager for product, 19 sales of that particular product. 20 Q Okay, is the code number in the column next to 21 Aluminum Company? 22 A Yes. 23 Q What is that? 24 A It appears on mycopy to be 11. 25 Q And that would be acode number for the manager WATER PCB-SD0000027273 1 in charge of the sales? 2 A That's my best information. 3 Q And is there, to your knowledge, a master list 4 of code numbers that would reflect who those managers were? 5 A Not to my knowledge. 6 Q The next column is sales rep? 7 A That's correct. 8 Q On my copy, I can't read the number if there is 9 one in the column next to Aluminum Company. 10 A There is a number. I can't read it on my copy, 11 either. 12 Q Okay. Would you be able to see if that's a 13 readable number? 14 A I will look at the file and see if we can see IS what that number is. 16 Q That would represent the code number or the 17 sales rep who was involved? 18 A Yes. 19 Q And do you know whether there's a master list 20 of code numbers in sales reps' names? 21 A I do not know. 22 Q Would you be able to check that? 23 A I will make an inquiry. 24 Q Thank you. Could you just read the column 25 headings across, I can't read the column after "Name of WATER PCB-SD0000027274 1 Products/Customer". 2 A The next column heading is, "Potential." 3 Q Potential? 4 A Potential. 5 Q Does that mean estimated sales? 6 A Yes. That was based upon sales marketing 7 projections that were done by the sales people. 8 Q Okay, and the next column, the last year sales? 9 A Correct. 10 Q And then next would be -- 11 A Sales goal for current year. 12 Q And the next one would be -- 13 A Sales current year to date. 14 Q And then it would be months across? 15 A 12 months across. 16 Q The last column would be what? 17 A Customer I.D. and then, I don't know how to 18 interpret that last set of letters m-a-j-r, g-r-a-d. 19 Q Major group number? 20 A I'm sorry, I don't know at that point. 21 Q Could you read the columns across in terms of 22 the numbers after Aluminum Company of Massena, New York? 23 A Just the numbers? 24 Q Yes. I can't read -- 25 A Under potential, 36.0; last year sales, 7.39; WATER PCB-SD0000027275 1 sales goal for current year, 36.0; sales current year to 2 date, 8.62. 3 There are no entries for the months of January, 4 February or March. 5 For April the entry is 6.16. There's no entry 6 for May. The entry for June is 2.46. 7 Q Okay. 8 A There are no other entries for any of the months 9 Q Okay. Do you know whether these numbers refer 10 to pounds or dollars? 11 A I would guess pounds in thousand bulk, yes. 12 Q Okay. Would you look at 000075? 13 A Yes. 14 Q There1s some blackout on my copy with some IS handwritten interlineation numbers? 16 A Yes. 17 Q Were those on the original records? 18 A Yes. 19 MR. HOLZ: The handwritten stuff? 20 THE WITNESS: The handwritten stuff appearing 21 on the original record, this was not a modification made 22 by my staff. 23 Q All right. The next document, 000077 through 24 000081 appear to be another grouping referencing sales 25 summary for all PCB products relating to Lafayette, Indiana? WATER PCB-SD0000027276 A The Alcoa plant, Lafayette, Indiana, that's j correct. Q 000077 is a summary based on 000078 through 000081? A That's correct. Q So it was done in the same fashion as the Massena, New York summary? A Yes, that's correct. Q The underlying documents 000078 through 000081 are forms similar to the ones for Massena? A Yes. Q But relating to Lafayette? A Yes. Q And the method of reading and interpretation of the documents is the same? A Yes, that's correct. Q Looking now at document 000082 through 000086, I gather that these are records relating to the sales to Alcoa's Tennessee plant for the period '68 to '77? A Right. Q And the 000082 is a summary prepared by your staff of the documents ALC 000033 through 000086? A That's correct. Q And the documents 000083 through 000086 are the same forms and are read and interpreted and treated the same WATER PCB-SD0000027277 1 as the forms for Massena and Lafayette, is that correct? 2 A That's correct. 3 Q And is it correct, sir, that all of the various 4 sales summaries for all of the PCB products as well as the 5 individual plant by plant records were found in the files 6 that were at Monsanto's offices and were gathered together 7 as part of the PCB files? 8 A Let me make sure I understand you. The 9 documents prepared by my staff which are based on the 10 computer records that we have produced were recently 11 prepared by my staff in response to your subpoena. 12 The underlying documents were documents that 13 we collected, the Law Department collected from files 14 maintained in St. Louis. 15 Q Okay. And, sir, you recognize the underlying 16 documents, not the sales summaries, not the summaries 17 prepared by your staff but the underlying documents as 18 being Monsanto's records, isn't that correct? 19 A That's correct. 20 Q And in your capacity as custodian of PCB 21 records, you have been through various computer generated 22 sales summary records on a number of occasions in the past 23 and are familiar with them generally, is that correct? 24 A Yes. 25 Q Off the record. *5 o WATER PCB-SD0000027278 1 2 record.) (Whereupon, a short discussion was had off the 3 EXAMINATION BY MR. HOLZ: 4 S Q Mr. Bistline, I'd like to ask you a few questions about the summary pages that you were testifying 6 were prepared by your staff. 7 I note that looking at the sales summary 8 document from which they were prepared, I believe this was 9 10 covered, we can look at any one, let's take 000008, for 11 example. I believe this was covered in your prior 12 testimony, that there are figures given for sales in year 13 to date and there are figures given for total sales last 14 year? IS A That's correct. Q Now, in preparing the sales summary as, for 16 example ALC 000001 through 000004 , sales are given in 17 18 summary in pounds by year? 19 A That's correct. 20 Q Now, my question is did your staff cross check, 21 in making the totals, did they cross check the columns that 22 said the total sales last year? 23 A Let me see if I understand you correctly. Are 24 you saying that where there appears numbers in the total 25 sales last year column, was that checked against subsequent 5,0 WATER PCB-SD0000027279 1 reports? 2 Q That would have been prior. 3 A Prior reports, to see if those two figures 4 matched? 5 Q That's right. 6 A Where they appear, it's their procedure to do 7 so. They're instructed to do this where the figures are 8 available. 9 Q Were there any discrepancies? 10 A No, none that I'm aware of. I was not advised 11 of them. 12 Q Did you ask to be advised of them? 13 A Mr. Holz, I can't recall in this particular 14 instance whether I gave that particular request or not. 15 It's a standing instruction that when a document of this 16 type is prepared to be produced to someone outside of 17 Monsanto, that I be advised of any discrepancy or 18 difficulty the staff encounters in preparation or justifying 19 the figures. 20 Q All right. Are you telling me that it was your 21 instruction that they were to total the last year columns 22 as well as the current year columns and to compare them? 23 A Where the figures are comparable, where you can 24 relate them to the same period, yes. 25 Q Thank you. Were the summaries prepared from WATER PCB-SD0000027280 1 photocopies that you have brought with you? 2 A The summaries were prepared from these documents, 3 yes. 4 Q From these very pieces ofpaper? 5 A These very pieces ofpaper, yes. 6 Q Thank you. Let me ask you about the sales 7 summary pages as opposed to the documents that were 8 prepared by your staff. 9 A Yes. 10 Q Do you have any personal knowledge as to when 11 these documents were created? 12 A No, sir. 13 Q Do you have any personal knowledge as to by 14 whom they were created? 15 A No, sir, I do not. 16 Q All right. Now, I want to direct your 17 attention to 00001S and you will see in there the last line 18 there in which there's any typed words, that there's a line 19 drawn through that, is there not? 20 A I'm not sure I understand what you mean, there's 21 a line. 22 Q This line seems to be drawn through the words 23 "Aluminum Company" and then the numbers? 24 A I'm not sure that I would say the line has been 25 drawn through there Mr. Holz. These lines appear on the WATER PCB-SD0000027281 1 form. 2 Q Can you explain the line? 3 A It's a guide, it's a visual guide so your eye 4 travels in a straight line across the form. 5 Q Do you mean it was preprinted on the form? 6 A Yes. This is a preprinted form on which the 7 computer types the sales information. 8 Q Then your testimony is that that is typed over 9 the line? 10 A That's correct. 11 Q Okay, thank you. Now, let's turn to 000074 . 12 A Okay. 13 Q I'11 use this as an example. 14 MR. WAYNE: 0000, what number? 15 Q 74. Now, under the caption -- is that a, do 16 you know, a printed caption, "Organic Division Function" 17 or is that typed in somehow? 18 A I don't know whether that is printed or typed. 19 I'd have to examine, if we still have the original document, 20 I'd have to examine that document to determine that. 21 Q You say if you still have the original document. 22 Is there some doubt about that? 23 A It may be that the document that we acquired 24 from Monsanto's files was a xerox copy rather than the 25 original ribbon copy. These copies are prepared obviously AO WATER PCB-SD0000027282 1 and computer generated and multiple copies are made as 2 needed by various groups within the company. 3 They weren't, all copies were not typed out in 4 original by the computer. 5 Q Do you know where the original is? 6 A Of this particular document, sir? ? / Q Or any of these documents? 8 A To the extent that we have the ribbon copy in 9 our archives, I have the original document. 10 Q All right, but you don't have it in all these 11 instances? 12 A That's correct. 13 Q Now, immediately below that capition that I 14 asked you about, the organic division functional fluid 15 sales report appears another legend in thousands of pounds 16 and dollars? 17 A Yes, sir. 18 Q Do you know how that's preprinted, is that 19 computer generated or do you know? 20 A Again, I could not tell you from looking at 21 this copy. 22 Q All right. I believe you discussed this page 23 with Mr. Wayne? 24 A Yes. 25 Q And looking at the numbers, I believe you WATER PCB-SD0000027283 1 ventured the opinion that the numbers were pounds rather 2 than dollars. How could you tell that? 3 A Dollars are normally expressed differently. 4 Q How? 5 A The dollars would be expressed not in thousands 6 typically, it would take quite a few thousand pounds to 7 make up thousands of dollars. The dollars are usually 8 expressed in whole dollars and cents. 9 Q How do you know, in other words, you're saying 10 because, taking for example number 7.39, that would be 11 $7.39? 12 A That's correct. 13 Q Okay. Now, looking at, again for example we 14 look at the other pages as well, but there seems to be 15 handwritten on there the word "Pydraul" and the number 625? 16 A Yes. 17 Q I believe you testified in answer to Mr. Wayne's 18 question that those were on the original documents, those 19 handwritten -- 20 A That's correct, we don't make substantive marks 21 on these documents. 22 Q In other words, your testimony is that when you 23 received the documents, they had these notations written 24 on them? 25 A That's correct. i WATER PCB-SD0000027284 1 Q Can you tell me when the notations were written 2 on the documents? 3 A No, sir. 4 Q Can you tell me by whom the notations were 5 written on the documents? 6 A No, sir, I cannot. 7 MR. HOLZ: That's all the questions I have on 8 that group. 9 10 Q (By Mr. Wayne) On this group, just one or two 11 more questions then, sir, as the records custodian for the 12 PCB related documents, do you have any reason to question 13 the accuracy or the authenticity of any of these sales 14 summaries, the underlying documents, not the ones prepared 15 by your staff? 16 A No, sir, I have no reason to question them. 17 Q Okay. I don't have anything further on that 18 stack. 19 It might be a good time to take a break here. 20 (Whereupon, a short recess was taken.) 21 Q (By Mr. Wayne) Sir, would you look at ALC 22 000184? 23 A Yes, sir. 24 Q Which has previously been marked as P140 at Mr. 25 Bunting's deposition. WATER PCB-SD0000027285 1 A Yes. 2 Q This appears to represent on the top of the 3 sheet quantities of polychlorinated biphenyls contained in 4 fluid sold to Alcoa. 5 Can you tell me who prepared this document 6 ALC 000184? 7 A Yes, it was prepared by a member of my staff at 8 my request. 9 Q Was it prepared at your direction and 10 supervision? 11 A Yes. 12 Q From what document or documents was this 13 quantity sheet developed? 14 A This was prepared from documents which reflect 15 the composition of the products which are listed here. 16 Q And what are the types of documents that 17 reflect the composition of the products listed that were 18 used for purposes of making this Exhibit P140? 19 A I can't remember the precise title of documents, 20 something like product specification sheet or something 21 like that. I don't have the exact title of the document 22 in my head. 23 Q And that product specification sheet, if I can 24 use that term for a moment, is a document that was 25 prepared by and kept at Monsanto's offices? WATER PCB-SD0000027286 1 A That's correct. 2 Q And was that a document that was prepared and 3 kept in the ordinary course of Monsanto's business with 4 respect to each of those products? 5 A Yes, that's correct. 6 Q Was that developed by Monsanto's employees or 7 personnel? 8 A Yes. 9 Q And those product specification sheets are kept 10 in files at Monsanto? 11 A Yes. 12 Q Are they kept in the same files that were 13 gathered together for the PCBs or are they kept in separate 14 files? 15 A Two places, I have my set of those documents 16 within the PCB documents. They are, in addition, I believe 17 kept in our research area. 18 Q All right, and so for all of the products that 19 contained PCB, the product specification sheets would be 20 with the records of the PCB related files? 21 A As I said, I have a copy of those records with 22 the PCB files, yes. 23 Q And on the product specification sheet for each 24 of the products would there be an entry for percentage of 25 PCBS? WATER PCB-SD0000027287 1 A Yes. 2 Q I gather someone from your staff went to the 3 product specification sheet, took the percentage PCBs and 4 particular product and translated it into a chart which is 5 now marked P140? 6 A Right. Let me clarify that. The entry on the 7 product specification sheet probably does not say 8 percentage of PCBs in those words. It would reflect whatever 9 particular polychlorinated biphenyl product was used in 10 making the products sold to Alcoa. 11 In some cases, it's a hundred per cent. In 12 some cases, it's less than that but for example, if it were 13 Aroclor 1242 or 1248 that were used in making the product, 14 that would be reflected here as a polychlorinated biphenyl. 15 Did you follow me? 16 Q Not quite. Just so we're clear, on the product 17 specification sheet for the composition of the product, 18 there would be some entries with reference to PCBs content? 19 A There would be entries with respect to the 20 specific substances blended together to make up this 21 product. 22 Q All right, and how then would someone go from 23 the composition to a percentage figure for PCBs? 24 A Monsanto's product polychlorinate or PCBs are 25 identified as Aroclor with a certain number after it. It 4 p, WATER PCB-SD0000027288 1 reflects the kind it is. On the specific sheet, there's 2 an entry for Aroclor that is reflected and means that`s the PCB that was used in making the final product. 3 Q And then how would someone know percentages 4 5 from that? 6 A The figure I believe is expressed in per cent. 7 Q And do you retain the product specification sheets from which P140 was generated? 8 A Yes. 9 10 Q And those are in your -- 11 A In my custody. 12 Q In your custody, in your files? 13 A Right. 14 Q And are those product specification sheets 15 voluminous, or one, or multiple sheets for each product? 16 A It depends upon the product. 17 Q And as far as you know, P140 is accurate and 18 reflects the percentage of PCBs in each of the products 19 listed thereon? 20 A Yes. 21 Q That's ALC 000184? 22 A That's correct. 23 Q Are the underlying product specification sheets 24 available for inspection if someone had a question about 25 how that was determined? WATER PCB-SD0000027289 A If we could agree upon a protective order so 1 2 that that information wouldn't be disseminated, we regard the precise composition as proprietary information but, yes, 3 it could be made available upon request. 4 Q Off the record. 5 (Whereupon, a short discussion was had off the 6 record.) 7 8 MR. WAYNE: Let's just put it on the record in case there's any question about the underlying document 9 10 from which this came. I, personally, have no objection to 11 a confidentiality and protective order. 12 MR. HOLZ: Neither does Alcoa. 13 MR. WAYNE: On the record then, in the event 14 that anyone wishes to have any questions about the 15 underlying documents, I certainly would agree that if they 16 were to be disclosed to me or any client, we would enter 17 into a protective order and confidentiality order with 18 respect to any of the information contained on any of the 19 underlying documents, specification sheets. 20 MR. HOLZ: And so would Alcoa. 21 THE WITNESS: I take it you'11 advise me whether 22 that's additional information you wish? 23 MR. HOLZ: Yes, we'11 see how things develop. 24 Do you have some more questions on this document? 25 MR. WAYNE: I may not. Mo, I do not. WATER PCB-SD0000027290 1 MR. HOLZ: Then let me ask a few questions. 3 EXAMINATION BY MR. HOLZ: 4 Q I take it that the information stated on this 5 document 000184 which has been identified as Plaintiff's 6 Exhibit 140 is a conclusion or inference from the sale 7 summary document, itself, and the product specification -- 8 Let me clarify that. 9 MR. WAYNE: Because I'm going to object. 10 Q What I mean by that is that someone on your 11 staff went through and picked out the product designations 12 that are shown in the sales summary documents? 13 A That's correct. 14 Q And then compared the product names with 15 specifications? 0 <n 16 A That's correct. Id 6 17 Z D S. 18 Q Okay, and then drew the conclusion or inference A Reported the result of that inspection. 19 Q Of that comparison? 20 MR. WAYNE: Let me just object to the form, as 21 drew the conclusion. It reported on what the facts were 22 in the product specification sheet. 23 Q All I'm putting on the record is what they're 24 doing was taking one thing, comparing it to another and 25 drawing a conclusion. I'm going to ask some more questions. p e n Ga o / in d y . S F -S E L-2547 WATER PCB-SD0000027291 1 MR. WAYNE: Fine 2 Q Are the specifications that were used in making 3 this, are they dated? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Do they carry dates? 6 A Yes, they do carry dates. 7 Q Were the dates compared to the dates of sale, 8 the dates of the specifications compared to the dates, in 9 other words, was a 1968 specification compared to a 1968 10 product specification on the product sales summary sheet? 11 A Let me answer it this way, Mr. Holz. The 12 products compositions are not changed from year to year so 13 that the product composition, for example for Pydraul A200 14 didn't change. IS Q That's never changed? 16 A No. We don't sell the product any more. If we 17 change the formulation, we change the product designation. 18 Q All right. Now, referring to those 19 specifications, I believe you testified that the particular 20 components, in other words, the chemical composition by 21 quantity is given in those specifications? 22 A That's correct. 23 Q Is it also true, is it not, that there are 24 many different isomers of polychlorinated biphenyls? 25 A That's correct. WATER PCB-SD0000027292 1 Q Some hundreds? 2 A I believe the number is 209. 3 Q And that they have in terms of stability 4 persistence toxicity quite different characteristics? S A They can have, yes, that's correct. 6 Q So then that totaling them together in a 7 percentage as has been done here is a pigeonhole process, 8 is that correct? 9 MR . WAYNE: I object to the form. I don't 10 know what you mean by pigeonhole. 11 Q A categorization process? 12 A It groups them together. 13 Q It groups them? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Fine, just as if we wanted to group all classes 16 together, we could do that? 17 A I assume if one wanted to do that, one could. 18 Q I mean, it's a grouping, is it not? 19 A All that this document designates is the total 20 PCBs content of the specified group so I would agree in 21 that sense, it is a grouping. 22 q A grouping in the sense they all belong to the 23 same family? 24 A Polychlorinated biphenyls, that's correct. 25 MR. HOLZ: I don't have any other questions on WATER PCB-SD0000027293 1 that document 2 MR. WAYNE: Neither do I. 3 Okay, the next grouping of documents is what I 4 have as Aroclor product labels, it's product folder 8, 5 which bears the number ALC 001224 through 001243. 6 Can we mark all of these? 7 (Documents, handed to the reporter, were marked 8 for identification as Plaintiff Monsanto Exhibits 3, 3A 9 through 30, inclusive.) 10 11 Q (By Mr. Wayne) Mr. Bistline, the documents 12 which have been marked Plaintiff's Exhibit 3 through 3-0 13 were contained in a folder marked Aroclor Product Labels? 14 A Yes. IS Q Folder 8 according to my designation? 16 A Yes. 17 MR. HOLZ: We did not receive folders, I don't 18 believe. 19 THE WITNESS: You should have. They should have 20 been sent precisely the same fashion as what Mr. Wayne 21 received. 22 MR. HOLZ: Okay, I'11 double check it. 23 MR. WAYNE: I can tell you I received them with 24 a folder as shown here. 25 MR. HOLZ: Okay. WATER PCB-SD0000027294 1 THE WITNESS: If you didn't get them that way, 2 let me know. We can certainly remedy that, Mr. Holz. 3 MR. HOLZ: Aroclor Product Labels? 4 MR. WAYNE: That's what it says on mine. 5 Q (By Mr. Wayne) Now, the documents ALC 001224 6 through 1243, Mr. Bistline, appear to be, represent Aroclor 7 labels, is that correct? 8 A That's correct. 9 Q And can you tell me from what file or files 10 these documents 1224 through 1243 came at Monsanto? 11 A Well, once again, these came from files in my 12 custody relating to PCBs. 13 Q Do these documents, 001224 through 001243 14 represent copies of labels that were prepared by Alcoa 15 employees over the years? 16 MR. HOLZ: I beg your pardon? 17 Q Prepared by Alcoa -- by Monsanto employees over 18 the years? 19 A By Monsanto employees. 20 MR. HOLZ: I'm going to object to the form of 21 the question. 22 THE WITNESS: The answer is yes. 23 Q Do you know what the procedures, if any, were 24 for the creation of these various labels over the years? 25 A Mr. Wayne, I don't know that from firsthand WATER PCB-SD0000027295 1 knowledge. I doubt that I would be the appropriate person 2 to impart that information to you. 3 Q Is it Monsanto policy to keep copies of labels 4 prepared by and used by it in the ordinary course of its 5 business? 6 A Yes. 7 Q Now, each of these labels bear in the lower 8 left-hand corner or on some location of the document a 9 reference to some code numbers. If you look at the first 10 document, Aroclor 1242, 001224 -- 11 A Yes. 12 Q -- the lower left-hand corner, this is 13 Exhibit 3, in the lower left-hand corner, there appears to 14 be code numbers, or numbers. Do you know what those numbers 15 represent? ` 16 A I don't know in detail, Mr. Wayne. I'm advised 17 that they are the number which refers to this particular 18 label, but whether the individual numbers have a significance, 19 I don't know. 20 Q Okay. Is there any way which you could tell the 21 date of these labels from the labels, themselves, the date 22 prepared or date used or anything of that nature? 23 A One would have to refer to the code number to 24 which you referred a moment ago, and I know the date for 25 the label can be determined. I'm not certain where internal WATER PCB-SD0000027296 1 to this code number is the key on that or whether you have 2 to refer to another document but I know we can for the most 3 part determine the time period during which that label was 4 used. 5 Q Off the record. 6 7 record.) (Whereupon, a short discussion was had off the 8 Q Back on the record. Mr. Bistline, would you 9 be able to check to determine thedates whenthe labels 10 wereactually in use? 11 A Yes. 12 Q From the codereferences on otherlabels or 13 from some other source? 14 A I'm not sure our staff can do it from code IS reference. I believe we can determine when the labels were 16 in use. 17 Q All right, I'll appreciate it if you can do that. 18 MR. HOLZ: And tell us how you did it. 19 THE WITNESS: Yes. 20 MR. WAYNE: Off the record. 21 (Whereupon, a short discussion was had off the 22 record.) 23 Q (By Mr. Wayne) Do you know if it was the policy 24 and procedure of Monsanto to keep a product label file with 25 labels that were used during various time frames or was it a WATER PCB-SD0000027297 1 policy to keep a file on type of products, how were the 2 files kept, by product, by time of use, by dates, or don't 3 you know? 4 A The label file was kept by products. S Q By products? 6 A Yes. 7 Q Okay, and those files over the years were in the 8 custody of Monsanto personnel? 9 A That's correct. 10 Q And the labels that are part of the Plaintiff's 11 Exhibit 3 groupings are copies of actual labels in use 12 during various periods of time for these various products 13 referenced thereon? 14 A That's correct. 15 Q Now, were the labels to your understanding put 16 onto product containers? 17 A Yes. 18 Q So that when products were shipped, they would 19 have labels like the ones marked here? 20 A That's correct. Let me just clarify that to 21 this extent. I believe the last four pages of this group, 22 Exhibit 3-0, 1240 through 1243 were not labels that were 23 designed to be put on the container by Monsanto Company. 24 Q These were for purposes of returning for 25 reclamation or disposal? WATER PCB-SD0000027298 1 A That's correct. They were designed and 2 intended to be applied to the container by the person returning the product to Monsanto. 3 Q Okay, and to your understanding, would these 4 labels be put on containers of various sizes so that 5 whether it be a drum of certain gallonage or certain pounds 6 of product, the labels would be on all types of containers? 7 A That's my understanding, yes. 8 Q And you recognize the Exhibit P3 documents as 9 being labels of Monsanto? 10 A I recognize these as copies of documents which 11 we obtained from our files, from the labeling files 12 13 maintained by Monsanto. Q Okay. I don11 have any further questions on 14 15 these documents. MR. HOLZ: All right. Let me ask just a few. 16 17 EXAMINATION BY MR. HOLZ: 18 19 Q How do you know what Monsanto's policy, as I 20 think you testified earlier, was to the preparation or use 21 of labels? 22 A I'm not sure I testified with any breadth 23 of knowledge about what our policy was with respect to 24 preparing labels, Mr. Holz. 25 My information on the use of Monsanto labels, WATER PCB-SD0000027299 manner in which label files were organized comes from 1 conversation with the person who actually performed that 2 function at Monsanto for a number of years. 3 Q What function? 4 A Function of preparing the labels for the S various Monsanto products, making sure that the labels were 6 appropriate and appropriately used in the shipping of 7 products, that they comply with regulation requirements. 8 Q Do you know, first of all from your personal 9 knowledge, whether or not the documents we have here are 10 all the labels used by Monsanto with respect to the sale 11 of PCBs from, say, 1950 to date? 12 A No, sir, they're not. These are documents which 13 would be the labels used on the specific Aroclor products 14 identified here which were sold to Alcoa during the time 15 period during which those products were sold. 16 Q Are you saying that there is a label here for 17 18 every product sold to Alcoa? 19 A There's a label here as best we can determine 20 it by looking at the sales summary for the PCB containing 21 product sold to Alcoa. _ 22 Q I'm not sure I understand your answer. Could 23 we relate these labels to the specific product if we go 24 through the list of a product? 25 A That attempt was made by my staff. 60 WATER PCB-SD0000027300 1 Q And ~ 2 A And this was the result of their attempt to do 3 exactly that. 4 Q What I'm asking you is can you take us through S and show us which label goes with which product? 6 A I'm not sure I can do that right now. 7 Q What I'm trying to get at is whether or not 8 there are any labels that did or may pertain to those 9 products that is not in this file or may not be in this 10 file, I'm asking you about the completeness of the file. 11 A If I understand your question, let me just be 12 sure I understand what you're asking. You're asking me if 13 contained within this particular folder here are all labels 14 for products containing PCBs which Monsanto sold to Alcoa? 15 Q That's right. 16 A The answer to that is no because there's 17 another file of labels we also produced that are Pydraul, 18 specific labels we have to consider. 19 Q If we take the two together, would there be a 20 label that corresponds to every product? 21 A Yes, that's my belief. I say that because I 22 didn't physically, personally check that but that was the 23 instruction that I gave my staff. 24 Q And is your belief based on your knowledge of 25 these files that there are no missing labels or gaps or WATER PCB-SD0000027301 1 whatever? 2 A I have to go back and repeat what I just said. 3 The instructions I gave my staff was if the labels for all 4 the products that we sold to Alcoa -- S Q My question was a little different. You are 6 familiar with these files? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Is that correct, okay. What I'm asking you is 9 based on that familiarity and knowledge, are they complete? 10 A To my knowledge, yes. 11 Q So there are not missing labels or -- 12 A I have looked through here. I don't see, there 13 was nothing which appeared to me that should have been in 14 here that was not. 15 Q Okay. 16 A Or was in here that shouldn't be. 17 Q Fine. 18 A Both ways. 19 Q Then in your knowledge of these files, you're 20 speaking more broadly than just these particular labels? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Which you have assembled as being applicable to 23 the products sold to Alcoa, but now referring to all 24 Monsanto PCBs containing products, are you telling us that 25 it's your belief that those files are complete? WATER PCB-SD0000027302 1 MR. WAYNE: I lost you myself on that question. 2 Q Let me try again then. What I'm trying to get 3 at is whether or not the label files to the best of your 4 knowledge, the label files generally for PCBs are complete? 5 A They are complete back to the time at which the 6 files began to be maintained. 7 Q Which was when? 8 A 1947, I believe, or thereabouts, the post-World 9 War II period at some point, I'm not sure, '46 or '48 but 10 approximately that time period, the very late 1940s. 11 Q From then until -- 12 A Until now. 13 Q -- until now, until Monsanto quit selling -- 14 A Correct. What I'm saying more broadly is we 15 have, we didn't keep label files just on PCBs products. 16 We have label files on all of our products and those files 17 are complete back to 1947. 18 Q So you have not had the experience of, on PCBs 19 labels or any other kind of labels of wanting to find what 20 label applied to what product and not being able to, is 21 that correct? 22 A That's correct. 23 Q Fair enough. I don't have any more questions. 24 MR. WAYNE: Okay, next I'd like to mark the 25 next grouping which would be the Pydraul labels, which is WATER PCB-SD0000027303 1 ALC 001244 through ALC 001279 which came in a folder 2 product numbered 9 regarding Pydraul product labels. 3 THE WITNESS: Which is somewhat misleading. 4 There's other things. S MR. WAYNE: I'11 mark them as a group if I can, 6 then we'11 deal with them individually. We111 do the same 7 thing with these except we'11 mark them Plaintiff's 8 Exhibit 4. 9 (Documents, handed to the reporter, were marked 10 for identification as Plaintiff Monsanto Exhibits 4, 4-A 11 through 4-II, inclusive.) 12 MR. HOLZ: I have just a couple more questions 13 for clarification on Plaintiff Monsanto 3 set of documents. 14 IS EXAMINATION BY MR. HOLZ: 16 Q If you look at 001226, which is Plaintiff's 17 Monsanto Number 3-C? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Now, I see there it reads net legal 600 pounds, 20 then it's 272.16 kilos? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Do I correctly infer this is a label for a 23 particular product container, a drum with a specific 24 quantity? 25 A That's correct. WATER PCB-SD0000027304 1 Q Now, if we look at Plaintiff Monsanto Number 3, 2 which is 001224 and 001225, we are not given any such 3 designation? 4 A That's correct. 5 Q Indeed, this looks to be a photocopy of three 6 pieces of paper, one of which is 001224 and then from the 7 outline, it looks like there's two different pieces of 8 paper that have been photocopied on 001225? 9 A That appears to be correct. 10 Q Can you tell me, I'm a little at a loss, you 11 have described these as labels but how do we come to have 12 sort of a three labels, or three pieces placed on a 13 container? 14 A My understanding of the label that's reflected IS on 1224 and 1225 is that part of it went on the front and 16 part of it went on the back of the container. 17 Q But they are all sticker labels? 18 A Sticker labels, yes. 19 Q In this case, all three pieces would be on the 20 container? 21 A That is my understanding. 22 Q Okay. If you look at 001227 which has been 23 marked Plaintiff's Monsanto Number 3-D, does that go with 24 001226? 25 A I believe it does. WATER PCB-SD0000027305 1 Q So in other words, that's again a three-piece 2 set? 3 A Yes, that's correct. 4 Q Okay. Can you explain why some have 5 quantities, seem to be specific to a specific container and 6 others do not? 7 A I can't explain that to you. 8 Q Would you look at 0012335 which has been 9 marked Plaintiff's Monsanto 3-H? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Is that also a sticker label? 12 A All of these labels, Mr. Holz, I believe are 13 sticker labels. In other words, they're placed on the 14 product. 15 Q None of them are packing slips? 16 A No. These all are true labels which are 17 affixed to the outside of the product container. 18 MR. HOLZ: Okay. That's all I wanted to clarify. 19 Would that be true of the new set we're about 20 to talk about? 21 THE WITNESS: Yes. 22 23 Q (By Mr. Wayne) Okay. The next set of documents 24 are Pydraul type labels that have been marked Plaintiff's 25 Monsanto Exhibit 4 through Plaintiff Monsanto Exhibit c WATER PCB-SD0000027306 1 4-II, and include the documents marked ALC 001244 through 2 ALC 001279? 3 A That's correct. 4 Q And I gather that these documents in Plaintiff's 5 Exhibit 4 were also copies of documents contained in the 6 labeling files in your possession relating to the Pydraul 7 family of products together with at least one at the end 8 marked 001279 referring to Transformer Pyranol? 9 A Yes, that's correct. 10 Q Are these copies of labels that were kept and 11 maintained in the ordinary course of business of Monsanto? 12 A Yes. 13 Q And are these labels, do these reflect the 14 labels that were in use by Monsanto for the various products 15 over a period of time? 16 A Yes, that's correct. 17 Q And would you be able to attempt to do the same 18 thing for us with regard to this set of labels, namely 19 determine for what period of time each of these labels for 20 the various products were in use? 21 A Yes, I will undertake to dothat. 22 Q And werethese documents kept in the label files 23 under product name? 24 A Yes. 25 Q And your staff searched the records to pull out (77 WATER PCB-SD0000027307 1 the labels for each of the Pydraul products that were sold 2 to Alcoa? 3 A That's correct. 4 Q And the documents contained in this Exhibit 4 5 are the result of that search from the files in your 6 possession? 7 A That's correct. 8 Q And it was the policy of Monsanto to maintain 9 copies of labels which had been prepared and used in the 10 regular course of its business, is that correct? 11 A That's correct. 12 Q You recognize these as copies of Monsanto 13 labels for the Pydraul products? 14 A I recognize these as documents that came from 15 the label file for those products, yes. 16 Q And as far as you know, these files were 17 maintained in the custody of Monsanto over the period of 18 years from at least 1947 to the present? 19 A Approximately 1947 , yes. 20 MR. WAYNE: I don't have any further questions 21 on these. 22 23 EXAMINATION BY MR. KOLZ: 24 Q . To save time, are there any, do you recall our 25 prior dialogue concerning folder number 8 on the Aroclor, WATER PCB-SD0000027308 1 except it's a different product, are there any significant 2 differences in the way the label files were kept, in your 3 knowledge of them? 4 A With respect to -- transposed to the Pydraul? 5 Q No, I'm contrasting this group of documents 6 with folder number 8, the Aroclor we were discussing 7 previously. I asked you a series of questions about your 8 knowledge and about how the files were kept and so forth. 9 Are there any differences, I'm trying to short 10 cut it. 11 A To my knowledge, there are no differences 12 between the manner in which the label files for the Pydraul 13 products were kept as opposed to the Aroclor products that 14 we discussed previously. IS Q Or concerning your knowledge of those files? 16 A That's correct. 17 Q Referring specifically to 001279, which is the 18 Transformer Pyranol, and it says made for General Electric 19 Company? 20 A That is correct. 21 Q What did that mean? 22 A General Electric manufactures electrical 23 equipment including transformers. Transformers contain a 24 fluid called a dielectric, the purpose of which is to 25 insulate and cool the equipment. G.E. had specifications WATER PCB-SD0000027309 1 for its dielectric fluid called Pyranol A-13B3B, which 2 label is reflected in 001279. 3 Monsanto in certain cases manufactured the 4 product Transformer Pyranol A-13B3B for G.E. at its request, 5 pursuant to G.E.'s specifications. That is what is meant, 6 it was made for General Electric Company. 7 Q It does not imply then that the product was 8 sold only to General Electric? 9 A No. 10 Q It was sold to whomever, the general public? 11 A I would not say we sold it to the general public 12 This is a special kind of fluid for a particular application 13 that is, it's used in electrical equipment. 14 Q I understand. 15 A We would not sell it to a 12-year-old kid who 16 called up on the phone. 17 Q You misunderstood. If anybody called up and 18 said, hey, I've got a transformer -- 19 A Up to 1972, that was the case. In 1972, 20 Monsanto instituted a policy as part of an overall program 21 to restrict the sales and hopefully thereby the 22 environmental dissemination of PCBs. 23 That program restricted as a matter of company 24 policy only, not of any compulsion but we restricted our 25 sales of product containing PCBs to electrical equipment WATER PCB-SD0000027310 1 manufacturers so after January 15, 1972, Transformer 2 Pyranol or any other transformer fluid containing PCBs 3 would have been sold only to certain specified electrical 4 equipment manufacturers. 5 We would not have sold it even to Alcoa if' they 6 called up and said I need some of this transformer fluid. 7 Q Okay. Many of these labels if not every one, 8 and, you know, you can speak to whether it's every one or 9 not, contain, if not identical, a similar legend that says 10 caution, contains chlorinated hydrocarbons, then it goes on 11 and sort of just cautions prolonged breathing of vapors 12 and mist and avoid contact with eyes and prolonged contact 13 with skin, if skin contact occurs, remove by washing with 14 soap and water, following eye contact, flush with water; 15 if clothing becomes soaked with fluid, laundry before 16 wearing again? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Those legends were all, is it not correct to 19 say, directed at worker protection? 20 A Those legends were directed toward anyone who 21 would come in contact with product. I don't know that 22 that's necessarily restricted to workers, although they 23 would be obviously a primary audience. 24 Q The labels on the product barrel, was it not the 25 idea that the product barrel would then be in a customer's WATER PCB-SD0000027311 1 facility? 2 A That's correct. 3 Q This would warn the workers in the facility? 4 A That's correct, warn anyone who saw the label. 5 Q Yes, who came in contact with thedrum? 6 A Right. 7 Q In the prior set ofdocuments that were marked 8 Plaintiff's Monsanto Exhibit 3, we saw a few documents that 9 related to, did we not, to the return of the product to 10 Monsanto? 11 A That's correct. 12 Q For reclamation or disposal? 13 A That's correct. 14 Q I don't see any in this set. 15 A Yes, there are none. 16 Q There are none? 17 A There are no return labels included in production 18 folder number 9. 19 Q All right. Now, if we look back at the prior 20 set, if we look at those return labels, I think I can 21 identify one of those for you for reference, for example, 22 ALC 001239. 23 MR. WAYNE: What is it? 24 Q 1239, which has been marked Plaintiff's Monsanto 25 3-K, and if we look at the first legend on there, "This WATER PCB-SD0000027312 1 product contains polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) which 2 some studies have shown may be persistent and environmental 3 contaminant and possibly injurious to certain forms of 4 birds, aquatic animal life." 5 Is it not correct to say this is speaking to a 6 different concern than is expressed on the product labels 7 discussed previously? 8 A I can tell you what my understanding of this is, 9 Mr. Holz, but I'd have to say that probably I'm not the 10 appropriate person to speak to the substance of the 11 cautionary language. 12 Q Could you give me the name of the person who 13 would be the proper person to speak to? 14 A Well, for some purposes it would be Dr. R. 15 Emmett Kelly. 16 MR. WAYNE: What is his designation? 17 THE WITNESS: He's retired from Monsanto. He 18 was, from approximately 1937 until 1974, Monsanto's Medical 19 Director. 20 Q Who else? 21 A Mr. William B. Papageorge, P-a-p-a-g-e-o-r-g-e. 22 Mr. Papageorge is also retired from Monsanto. At the time 23 period approximately 1970 through 1976, he held the title 24 of Manager of Environmental Protection, or Environmental 25 Control, some such formulation, and he had as his main 71 WATER PCB-SD0000027313 1 responsibility those concerns related, environmentally 2 related to PCBs and polychlorinated biphenyls. 3 Those are the two people whom I would say are 4 most knowledgeable about the substance and content of the 5 warnings you referred to. . 6 Q But you earlier testified, I believe, correct me 7 if I'm wrong, that you were, that the reason that you have 8 custody of these files is that you are concerned with 9 litigation relating to PCBs, is that not correct? 10 A That's correct. 11 Q And in the course of those duties of managing 12 litigation against Monsanto relating to PCBs, have you not 13 come to understand what these, the significance of these 14 labels are? 15 A I believe so, yes. 16 Q And based on that, can you not tell us that 17 the return, that the legend on return labels that refers 18 to the environment has a different, is addressed to a 19 different concern than the labels that are on the products, 20 themselves? 21 MR. WAYNE: Let me put in an objection to the form of your question, to the foundation. I think you 23 ought to first find out whether this P 3-K is a document 24 that is related to another label or is an independent 25 label of itself. -m WATER PCB-SD0000027314 1 Q We'll clarify it but I think we had established 2 it was a return label. 3 MR. WAYNE: I don't recall specifically, I just 4 want to know if it falls within the category of return 5 labels or attached to another label. 6 Q I notice it says waste disposal. Go ahead. 7 A As I sit here, gentlemen, I can11 tell you 8 whether this document which you have identified as 3-K is 9 a return label or whether it's a label which was also put 10 on the product that is identified here as Inerteen PPO, 11 ALC 001238. 12 Q Is there a way you could determine that and 13 advise us? 14 A Yes, I can. What I will say though, Mr. Holz, 15 is that the documents numbered ALC 001240 through 1243 are 16 certainly return labels. 17 Q Okay, and referring then to 1240, which has been 18 marked Plaintiff's Monsanto 3-L, there are two legends 19 there, if you will, bodies of texts. The one on the 20 right begins, "Caution." Is it not correct to refer to the 21 same sort of personnel concerns that we discussed earlier 22 with respect to legends on the labels? 23 A That's correct. 24 Q And the legend to the left that begins, 25 "Product contains polychlorinated biphenyls" is addressed WATER PCB-SD0000027315 1 to environmental concerns, is it not? 2 A That's correct. 3 MR. HOLZ: I don't have any more questions. 4 5 Q (By Mr. Wayne) Mr. Bistline, the warning on 6 the left of those return labels specifically relates to 7 environmental concerns through spills, leakages, disposal, 8 vaporization and otherwise of the product, is that correct? 9 A That's what it says there on the language, 10 that's correct. 11 Q Okay, and you will advise us as to whether 12 001239 is an independent label or related to another label 13 produced in this package? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Okay. 16 MR. HOLZ: Specifically whether it was a return 17 label or a product label? 18 THE WITNESS: Yes. 19 MR. HOLZ: I'm going to want to catch up on the 20 labeling but let's not take Mr. Bistline's time. 21 MR. WAYNE: I 'll give it to you after we finish 22 here. Do you have any other questions on the Pydraul? 23 MR. HOLZ: No, I do not. 24 Q (By Mr. Wayne) Okay. The next grouping of 25 documents I'm going to refer to are product folder number 3 WATER PCB-SD0000027316 1 correlating to purchasing and shipping? 2 A Yes. 3 Q Can we please mark as Plaintiff's Monsanto 4 Exhibit 5A through whatever, the documents contained in that 5 folder which are ALC 000185 through 000188.10. 6 The first groupings which you can mark as 7 Plaintiff's Monsanto Exhibit 5 would be a grouping of 8 documents 00185 through 00188.02. 9 The next will be 5-A which will be a letter of 10 March 5, 1969 which bears ALC 00188.03 through 00188.04. 11 Make that 5-A. 12 The next one why don't you mark each of these 13 separate sheets? 14 (Documents, handed to the reporter, were marked 15 for identification as Plaintiff's Monsanto Exhibits 5, 5-A 16 through 5-G, inclusive.) 17 MR. WAYNE: 188.05 is 5-B; 188.06 is C; 188.07 18 is D; .08 is E? .09 is F and .10 is G. 19 Q (By Mr. Wayne) Plaintiff's Monsanto Exhibit 5, 20 Mr. Bistline, which is 185 through 188.02 -- 21 A Yes. 22 Q -- appears to be a letter of April 22, 1969 23 from a Mr. Garcia, a regional sales manager of Monsanto to 24 J. Rutherford, senior buyer industrial. Aluminum Company of 25 America? 77 WATER PCB-SD0000027317 I 1 A Yes. 2 Q Attached to which are several requests for 3 quotations? 4 A Yes. 5 Q With respect to various Pydraul products? 6 A Yes. 7 Q 150, Pydraul 625, Pydraul F9 and Pydraul A200? 8 A Yes. 9 Q Can you tell me what file or files Plaintiff's 10 Monsanto Exhibit 5 came from? 11 A These are files relating to PCBs that are in my 12 custody. 13 Q And were these from correspondence files within 14 those PCBs related files, or do you know what the name of IS the file or files were from which this came? 16 A No, I don't, Mr. Wayne. Many of, if not most of 17 the files for this type of documents were retrieved from 18 dead storage in the warehouse when we got them, and they 19 frequently did not bear notations or names. 20 One can only infer where they might have come 21 from and in this case, it would appear to be an individual 22 correspondence file. 23 Q Okay, and when you say an individual, would 24 that be Mr. Garcia's file or -- 25 A Probably not. 78 WATER PCB-SD0000027318 f' V. 1 Q Okay. 2 A If you will look on page 185 at the top, there's 3 a notation BCC and a list of names. Unfortunately, one 4 which was highlighted on the original document but the 5 highlight xeroxed as a blackout here, contains the name of 6 the person whose file that came from. 7 Q All right. Would the copy from which this was 8 xeroxed and which was highlighted be able to delineate the 9 name of that person, would you be able to see through the 10 highlighting? 11 A Your copy was made through mine. I can't see 12 it on my copy. I will undertake that, if you wish, to 13 determine whose name has been highlighted and blacked out. 14 Q I'd appreciate that. 15 MR. HOLZ: And when you do that, would you 16 indicate how you did that; in other words, whether you saw 17 the original document or whether there was some other method 18 of determining that, and if so, what that method was? 19 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir, I will. 20 Q (By Mr. Wayne) The files which came from dead 21 storage which now form the basis of your, in part your 22 PCBs files -- 23 A Yes. 24 Q -- were those files that were kept in the 25 ordinary course of Monsanto's business? WATER PCB-SD0000027319 1 MR. HOLZ: I'm going to object to that question. 2 A As far as I know, yes. Q Do you know when the files were obtained from 3 dead storage, from which files this Plaintiff's Exhibit 5 4 was obtained? 5 6 A That particular document? Q Yes. 7 8 A I don't know, Mr. Wayne. I just don't know. 9 Q Okay, and in any event, the files from which 10 Plaintiff's Monsanto Exhibit 5 came have been in your 11 possession for a period of time? 12 A Yes. 13 Q And do you recognize 00185 through 188.02 as 14 being copies of Monsanto generated documents? 15 A This is the document that you referred to, is 16 one which was pulled from my PCBs files and reviewed by me 17 and determined to be appropriate for production here. 18 Those files as we have said before are obtained 19 by us and were Monsanto generated documents. 20 Q And searching the files to produce the documents 21 for the response to the subpoena, did you have to go through 22 files by customer or the correspondence for determining 23 this production of Exhibit 5, files by customers or files 24 by persons at Monsanto who might have generated the 25 correspondence? on WATER PCB-SD0000027320 i < 1 A Well, I didn't personally go through the files 2 to`make a first cut. I had my legal assistants do that. 3 They went through files which through our methods we 4 determined may contain documents related to Alcoa at the 5 various locations set forth in your schedule to the subpoena. 6 That's how these documents were selected. 7 Q Okay. Are you familiar with a Mr. Garcia or 8 know that he was the regional sales manager for functional 9 fluid in or about 1969? 10 A I don't know. I don't know Mr. Garcia 11 personally and I have no way, I don't know personally 12 whether he held that position at that time other than by 13 looking at this letter. 14 Q Do you have in your possession any organizational 15 charts that would reflect the names of persons like Mr. 16 Garcia and their titles in or about 1969? 17 A I have organizational charts. I don't know 18 whether they would reflect that particular information. 19 I haven't looked at them. 20 Q Would you be able to check and see if there's an 21 organizational chart that reflects that Mr. Garcia was the 22 regional sales manager at or about the time of April 22, 23 1969, the date of this letter? 24 A Just so I'm clear as to what I'm being asked to 25 do here, you wish me to confirm that Mr. Garcia in fact held Q1 WATER PCB-SD0000027321 V1 1 the position of regional sales manager, functional fluid on 2 dr about April"22, 1969? 3 Q That's right. 4 A You want to know how I found that out? 5 MR. HOLZ: Yes. 6 Q Yes, sure, that's right. Now, do you have any 7 reason to doubt the authenticity of this document marked 8 Plaintiff Monsanto Exhibit 5? 9 A No, sir, I don't. 10 Q As far as you know, it's a copy of a document 11 in the files of Monsanto? 12 A Yes, that's correct. 13 Q And was it the policy of Monsanto to keep 14 copies of, or of its personnel to keep copies of 15 correspondence relating to purchasing in the files as part 16 of an ongoing file maintenance and record keeping program? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Was that policy in effect at or about the time 19 of April 22, 1969? 20 A As far as I know, it was, yes. 21 Q And as far as you know, it was the regular 22 course of business that persons who generated correspondence 23 would keep copies and put them in the file at or about the 24 time that they made it or generated the correspondence, is 25 that correct? 82 WATER PCB-SD0000027322 ( 1 A That would be the usual practice, yes. 2 ............0 Looking at Plaintiff's Monsanto Exhibit 5-A, 3 this is a letter dated March 5, 1969. Do you know from 4 what file or files in the PCBs related files this document S came? 6 A Ho, sir, I don't. 7 Q Your staff searched those files and produced 8 this as being -- 9 A Potentially responsive, different document. 10 Q Responsive to ;-- 11 A Yes, that's correct. 12 Q And looking at Plaintiff Monsanto Exhibit 5-B, 13 this appears to be 188.05, appears to be a memorandum of 14 some sort relating to Alcoa National Contracts? 15 A That's what it states, yes. 16 Q Do you know from what file or files this 17 document which bears the name David A. Hall at the bottom 18 came? 19 A This document I would say from examining it, 20 appears to come from the correspondence file of one N. T. 21 Johnson. 22 Q And that is because of the highlight over the 23 name, N. T. Johnson on the right-hand column of the lighting 24 at the top of the page? 25 A That's correct. 83 WATER PCB-SD0000027323 1 Q Where was Mr. Johnson's office, was that a 2 St. Souls office, or can't you tell from the highlight? 3 A To the best of my knowledge, Mr. Johnson was 4 employed by Monsanto in St. Louis. S Q Do you know what Mr. Johnson's position was at 6 the time, in 1969? 7 A No, I don't know what his position was in '69. 8 Q Is Mr. Johnson still with the company, to your 9 knowledge, or don't you know? 10 A I don't believe he is. 11 Q Would you be able to check again, either through 12 an organizational chart or otherwise to let us know the 13 position of David A. Hall, the purported author of 188.05 14 and N. T. Johnson at or about the time of May, 1969? IS A Yes. 16 Q Can you tell us what files Plaintiff Monsanto 17 Exhibit 5-C through G came from in your PCBs files? 18 A No, sir, I can't. 19 Q Are P 5-C through P 5-G copies of records kept 20 in the ordinary course of business by Monsanto? 21 MR. HOLZs I'11 object but go ahead. 22 A I assume that to be the case although I would 23 note that it does not appear to be a document generated or 24 prepared by Monsanto. 25 q i understand that but copies of purchase orders oa WATER PCB-SD0000027324 V; 1 which appear to be 5-C through 5-G would be kept by Monsanto 2 in some file or files, is that correct? 3 A Yes. 4 Q Okay. Do you know if there were separate files 5 kept for purchase orders relating to Alcoa under the name 6 Alcoa as distinct purchase orders generally on a product 7 by product basis? / 8 A I don't know the answer to that question. 9 Q Would you be able to check with your staff as 10 to what file or files these came from in your PCBs file? 11 A Right. I'll see if we have any information on 12 what files these came from. 13 Q Okay. I don't have any questions on this. 14 MR. HOLZs Okay. 15 THE WITNESS: I assume you want me to tell you 16 how I determined that? 17 MR. HOLZ: Yes, we're sorry about that, but we 18 need to know. 19 20 EXAMINATION BY MR. HOLZ: 21 Q Now, referring to all the documents in the 5 22 series, all this correspondence, is it not true that you 23 didn't write any of these letters? 24 A That's true. 25 Q You didn't send any of these letters? 85 WATER PCB-SD0000027325 1 A That's true. 2 Q To the addresses, you didn't receive any of 3 these letters? 4 A That's correct. 5 Q Either as addressee or as acopy? 6 A That's correct. 7 Q Now, you testified, it wasn't very clear but 8 you testified something about Monsanto's policy with i 9 respect to correspondence. Was it Monsanto1s policy that 10 sales personnel were required to generate correspondence? 11 A I'm not quite sure I understand the question. 12 Did the company make people write letters? 13 Q Yes. 14 A In the appropriate circumstance, it was the 15 company's expectation that all of its personnel, not just 16 sales people, all the personnel appropriate the appropriate 17 correspondence. 18 Q Was it the company's policy that they must keep 19 that correspondence? 20 A For a specified period of time, yes, depending 21 on the type of document or correspondence. 22 Q With respect to the documents we're speaking of 23 here, would you tell us what that period of time was? 24 A I don't have that knowledge in my head right now 25 Mr. Holz. There is a guideline which would speak to that WATER PCB-SD0000027326 1 issue. 2 Q Is it -- 3 A Record retention guideline. 4 Q Is it not true, do you not have sufficient S knowledge to tell us the time would have been long expired 6 for these documents? 7 A Were I looking for the documents today, I would 8 not expect to find a document dated 1969 in company files, 9 a document of this type, referring to, generally to 10 Plaintiff's Exhibit 5. 11 Q Sales correspondence? 12 A Sales correspondence, that's true. If I were 13 looking in 1988, I wouldn't expect to find it there, 1969 14 documents. 15 Q Isn't it fair to say that you would not expect 16 this correspondence to be anything like complete today? 17 MR. WAYNE: Let me object to the form. When 18 you say "anything" is that with respect to specific 19 documents or generally? 20 Q Let me clarify that, referring to correspondence 21 between Monsanto as a seller and Alcoa as a purchaser of 22 products containing PCBs in the period 1969, 1970 to which 23 this correspondence obtains, given your knowledge of the 24 record retention program, do you believe that this is all 25 the correspondence that was generated during that period? WATER PCB-SD0000027327 1 A Certainly not. 2 Q Okay, and then do you have a belief as to what's 3 happened to the rest of it? 4 A I have a belief, I have a, I guess I'd call it 5 an educated guess as to what happened. 6 Q Would you give us that, please? 7 A That would be it was discarded in the normal 8 course of business pursuant to the record retention policy 9 of the company. 10 MR. HOLZ: Fine. No more questions. 11 MR. WAYNE: I don't have any more on that, okay. 12 Let's take a break here. 13 (Whereupon, a short recess was taken pursuant 14 to which the following proceedings were had:) 15 Q (By Mr. Wayne) The next grouping of documents 16 are PCBs clean up by Alcoa, documents 00018S through 17 000192. Please mark these as Plaintiff Monsanto Exhibits 18 6-A, B and C. 19 (Documents, handed to the reporter, were marked 20 for identification as Plaintiff Monsanto Exhibits 6-A, 21 6-B and 6-C.) 22 Q Looking at Plaintiff Monsanto Exhibit 6-A, did 23 this document come from the PCBs file maintained in your 24 possession? 25 A Yes. WATER PCB-SD0000027328 1 Q Or custody? 2 A Yes, it did. 3 Q 6-A appears to be a form called a "Call Report"? 4 A That's correct. 5 Q What is that form generally? 6 A My understanding of the call report is that it 7 is a document prepared by a Monsanto salesman reporting upon 8 a visit that the salesman made to a customer. 9 Q Okay, and is this a form that was in general use 10 at Monsanto over a period of time? 11 A That's correct. 12 Q And when a salesman visited a site, he or she 13 would complete the report based on their inspection or 14 visit to the site, is that correct? 15 A That's correct. 16 Q And were these callreports regularlyfiled and 17 maintained and kept in the ordinary course of business at 18 Monsanto? 19 A Yes. 20 Q And were they kept in separate files known as 21 call report files or were they kept by customer or product 22 or how? 23 A That would depend, Mr. Wayne, upon the person 24 who is keeping the file. 25 Q So each person may have had a differentsystem 79 WATER PCB-SD0000027329 1 for organizing his or her files? 2 A That's correct. 3 Q Do you recall or know or have any understanding 4 of what file or files P 6-A came from which is 189? 5 A Looking at this document, it appears to me that 6 this came from the files maintained by Dr. Cumming Paton. 7 Q Who was Dr. Cumming Paton? 8 A I'm not certain what his title was at the time, 9 and we're looking at a memo which was prepared on or about 10 October of 1973. I'm aware that he was generally in the 11 marketing and sales function for the business group of 12 which PCBs were a part. 13 Q What was that business group called, if you know 14 generally? 15 A Functional fluids. 16 Q And is Mr. Patonstill with Monsanto? 17 A Dr. Paton is currently employed by the company 18 as head of a joint venture that operates in Korea. He's 19 stationed in Korea at the present time. 20 Q And Mr. E. L. Shemley appears to be the salesman 21 who prepared this P 6-A? 22 A That's correct. 23 Q And this documentwas found in the PCBs related 24 files in your custody? 25 A That's correct. rn WATER PCB-SD0000027330 1 Q P 6-B, which is 190 and 191 is also a call 2 report form, is that correct? 3 A That's correct. 4 Q And it appears also to come from the files of 5 Dr. Gumming Paton? 6 A That's correct. 7 Q And is a report by Mr. Shemley? 8 A Yes, sir. He's listed as the salesman. 9 Q And apparently this is also a report of a 10 visit to the Alcoa, Tennessee facility? 11 A That's correct. 12 Q And this document also came from the PCBs files 13 in your custody? 14 A That's correct. 15 Q And this appears to be a copy of a form that 16 was prepared by Mr. Shemley in the ordinary course of 17 business, does it not? 18 A That's correct. 19 Q It appears that on the top right-hand corner as 20 a date of call, which apparently may reflect the date of the 21 visit? . 22 A Yes. 23 Q And the date received reflects what? To your 24 knowledge, is that the date of the report being received 25 for typing, because the next box is the date typed. WATER PCB-SD0000027331 1 A That's my understanding of what those dates 2 reflect. 3 Q Okay, so it shows that on its face it was made 4 at or about the time of the visit or call? 5 A That would be my interpretation of the dates 6 listed on the top right corner. 7 Q The same with regard to the call report 189? 8 A That's correct. 9 Q All right, and 6-C is also a call report form? 10 A Yes. 11 Q It appears to come from the file of Dr. Gumming 12 Paton as well? 13 A That's correct. 14 Q Also has the date of the call and the date it IS was typed? 16 A Yes. 17 Q And appears to be a call report form but it 18 does not say, at least I can't see who prepared it. Can you 19 tell? 20 A C. F. Seeger is the salesman. 21 Q Where do you see -- 22 A Look in the heading of the box on the right-hand 23 side approximately a quarter of the way down. 24 Q I see. 25 MR. HOLZ: What document are we looking at now? Q0 WATER PCB-SD0000027332 1 Q 192. 2 MR. HOLZ: Is 192 part of this as well? 3 MR. WAYNE: Yes. 4 MR. HOLZ: I see it. 5 Q (By Mr. Wayne) And this also came from the 6 files of the PCBs files in your custody? 7 A That's correct. 8 - MR. WAYNE: I don't have any further questions 9 on this. 10 11 EXAMINATION BY MR. HOLZ: 12 Q Mr. Bistline, is it not fair to say that you 13 have no personal knowledge of the generation of these 14 documents? 15 A That's correct. 16 Q The creation of thedocuments? 17 A That's correct. 18 Q Would you tell us how it came to be that you 19 have a file folder entitled, "PCBs Clean Up By Alcoa"? 20 A I believe the filefolder heading corresponds 21 with the request that Mr. Wayne made in his subpoena and 22 schedule. 23 Q So the file folder headings are not the headings 24 of how these files were kept? 25 A No, sir. The file folders and the documents WATER PCB-SD0000027333 1 produced by Monsanto in this proceeding relate to the 2 request made by Mr. Wayne. 3 Q I'm confused about these. Are 6-A, B and C, 4 is that right, one of them is a two page -- 5 MR. WAYNE: Yes, 190 and 191 appear to be a 6 group. 7 Q Were they stapled together in your copy? 8 A Yes. 9 Q All right, fine. Can you refer to 192? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Plaintiff's Monsanto 6-C, can you tell me what 12 in this document would have led your people to put that in 13 a folder entitled, "Clean Up By Alcoa"? 14 A There's a heading in there entitled, "Reclaiming." 15 That's the second heading from the bottom. 16 Q Reclaiming? 17 A Reclaiming refers to "Finette", which we 18 recognize as being a reclamation venture. 19 Q Did the heading "Clean Up" that you created also 20 include reclamation? 21 A Yes. Quite frankly, we had so few documents in 22 this category, if it was close, we put it in. 23 Q These were all the documents? 24 A These were all the documents we could discover 25 corresponding to Mr. Wayne's request. WATER PCB-SD0000027334 1 Q I believe you testified it was Monsanto's 2 practice to make these call reports? 3 A That's correct. 4 Q These are the only call reports that you 5 produced in response to the subpoena? 5 A That's correct. 7 Q Is it your belief that these are the only call 8 reports that would have been generated with respect to the 9 sale of PCBs to Alcoa? 10 A No, I'm certain that the call reports had been 11 reflecting other personnel visits by Monsanto to Alcoa. 12 Q Those are the documents that have somehow 13 survived the process of time? 14 A That's correct. 15 Q Can you tell me for what purposes Monsanto uses 16 these documents? 17 A Certainly. This particular type of document was 18 used for two general purposes. The first was a means of 19 communicating by the sales representative back to Monsanto 20 on items of interest and the need to follow up for the 21 particular customer. 22 The second objective would be for the salesman's 23 supervisor to be able to evaluate the saleman's performance 24 and his attention to the sales strategy and to the customer's 25 needs so it served both purposes. WATER PCB-SD0000027335 Q There's a number of statements in these 1 2 documents that, for example in 189, which is Plaintiff's Monsanto Exhibit 6A to "Fred said" in that one, or somebody 3 said -- 4 A Yes. 5 Q In this case I note that the contact is said to 6 be a Fred Vaughn? 7 A Yes. 8 Q This is the reporting, if you will, of hearsay, 9 10 is it not? 11 MR. WAYNE: I object to the form of the question 12 but you may -- 13 Q Well, I 'll put it another way. Would Monsanto 14 rely upon the statements purported to be made by personnel 15 of other companies as reported in these call reports? 16 A I'm not sure what you mean, rely. We would 17 take the document to be an accurate report by our salesman 18 of something that was said to him. 19 Now, whether we could rely upon the truth of 20 what was said to our salesman is something that I couldn't 21 speak to. 22 Q Fair enough. As for example on 190, which is 23 Plaintiff's Monsanto 6-B, toward the bottom is an underlined 24 portion there Alcoa had acquired a majority of the stock 25 within "Nowco"? 96 WATER PCB-SD0000027336 1 A Yes. 2 Q You can't say, is it correct, what reliance Monsanto would place on that sort of information? 3 4 A No, sir, I couldn't tell you that. 5 MR. HOLZ: That's all the questions I have. 6 7 Q (By Mr. Wayne) Okay, the next grouping of 8 documents is Alcoa product folder 7 called advertisements. 9 Will you please mark these as Plaintiff Monsanto Exhibits 10 and mark them A through whatever, and the ALC numbers are 11 001209 through 001223. 12 (Documents, handed to the reporter, were marked 13 for identification as Plaintiff Monsanto Exhibits 7-A 14 through 7-F, inclusive.) 15 Q Mr. Bistline, would you look at the grouping 16 of documents just marked which came from the advertisement 17 folder? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Could you just identify what file or files these 20 advertisements came from? 21 A These again came from files in my custody 22 relating to PCBs and PCB litigation. 23 Q Were there separate files for advertisements or 24 materials that were offered to magazines or brochures for 25 submission to the public? WATER PCB-SD0000027337 1 A I'm not certain whether there's a separate file 2 denominated that. 3 Q Do you have any understanding of what file or t 4 files each of these came from within the total category of 5 PCBs files? 6 A No, sir. 7 Q And each of these represent Monsanto prepared 8 advertisement copy that was submitted and published in a 9 journal or a magazine, is that correct? 10 A What this is in fact is a copy of that 11 advertisement placed by Monsanto in whatever magazine is 12 referred to. 13 Q And the copy, that is, is it not -- 14 A Let me rephrase that. You're right, this may 15 be copy in certain instances, anyhow that was placed in a 16 number of magazines. 17 Q I notice at the bottom of some of them it talks 18 about different magazines with different dates? 19 A Yes. 20 Q So what I was just trying to understand, this 21 is a Monsanto generated copy that was published in some 22 journal or journals? 23 A Yes, at least with respect to the 1209 and 1210. 24 Q Okay, fine. 25 A 1211 and 1212. WATER PCB-SD0000027338 1 Q Fine, and as far as you know, 1209 through 1212 2 were subsequently published in the magazines referred to on the bottom of 1210 and 1212? 3 A That's my understanding, yes. 4 Q Now, looking at 1213 through 1216, these appear 5 6 to be actual copies of portions of magazines or journal articles or advertisements, is that correct? 7 8 A That's what they appear to be. 9 Q And Monsanto kept in its files copies of such 10 advertisements which it had placed in these journals, is 11 that correct? 12 A That's my understanding, yes. 13 Q And to your understanding, was the wording and 14 the language or the copy of the information, the copywork 15 and the information prepared by Monsanto's personnel? 16 A I'm not certain, Mr. Wayne, whether this was 17 prepared internally by Monsanto personnel or prepared by an 18 agency which we hire for that purpose. 19 Q In any event, Monsanto approved and adopted the 20 language before it was published, is that correct? 21 A That's my understanding, yes. 22 Q And are these documents kept in this file that 23 we have, the Monsanto Exhibit 7 documents, all documents 24 which Monsanto has kept in the ordinary course of its 25 business? QQ WATER PCB-SD0000027339 1 A They were contained in files which were 2 maintained by Monsanto personnel in the course of their 3 business, yes. 4 Q Do you recognize these documents as having come 5 from Monsanto's files? 6 A That's correct, yes, I do. 7 Q Mark this. 8 (A document, handed to the reporter, was marked 9 for identification as Plaintiff Monsanto Exhibit 7-G.) 10 Q (By Mr. Wayne) On my 7-D, which is ALC 001217, 11 I cannot read the name of the journal at the bottom which 12 does appear to have been published in. Does your copy 13 reflect the name? 14 A My copy reflects Chemical and Engineering News 15 January 26 and March 16th, 1353, I believe is the date. 16 MR. HOLS: Is that 7-D? 17 Q Yes, 7-D. 18 MR. HOLZ: You want to give me the rest of those 19 quickly? 20 Q Yes. 1203 and 1210 are 7-A. 21 MR. HOLZ: Okay. 22 MR. WAYNE: 11 and 12 are 7-B; 13 and 14 are 23 7-C; 17 is D; IS through 120 is E and -- excuse me, 21 and 24 22 and 23 are 7-F; and 15 and 16 are G. 25 MR. HOLZ: Okay. Good. Thank you very much. WATER PCB-SD0000027340 1 Q (By Mr. Wayne) And was it the policy of 2 Monsanto to your understanding to keep copies of 3 advertisements that were published in Monsanto1s files? 4 A I'm not sure I can say yes or no to that one. 5 All I can tell you about that, Mr. Wayne, is that we found 6 these documents in Monsanto's files reflecting advertising 7 done. 8 Q Okay. 9 A These weren't products heavily promoted or 10 advertised through publications. 11 Q In any event, these appear to be copies of those 12 advertisements that have been retained in the files? 13 A Yes. 14 Q Okay. I don't have anything further. IS 16 EXAMINATION BY MR. HOLZ: 17 Q Mr. Bistline, do you have any personal knowledge 18 about these documents other than that they came from the 19 files in your custody? 20 A No, sir, I don't -- well, except that they were 21 found within files, business files of Monsanto when they 22 were retrieved by the Law Department. 23 Q Were they retrieved by the Law Department under 24 your direction? 25 A No, sir. These most likely were retrieved under WATER PCB-SD0000027341 1 ray predecessor's direction 2 Q So you have no personal knowledge of the 3 retrieval? 4 A That's not accurate, either. I was with the 5 company at the time. I was aware that this was going on, 6 was aware that they were pulling these documents together, 7 if you will. 8 Q How were you aware? 9 A Just in the course of my being at the company 10 and seeing what Mr. Nassif, N-a-s-s-i-f, understanding what 11 he was doing, how it would relate to my job and what I 12 needed to do. 13 Q In other words, he told you he was doing it? 14 A That's correct. That's not the only way I 15 understood that. I also spoke with his legal assistant. 16 She advised me what the project was, what they were doing. 17 Q Do you have any knowledge or belief as to 18 whether or not these are all the advertisements for these 19 types of products? 20 A No, sir, I don't. 21 Q Okay. 22 A I will say these are all we could find. 23 Q Okay. 24 Bob, if I might, could I borrow a copy of the 25 subpoena? WATER PCB-SD0000027342 I MR. WAYNE: Sure. 2 Q Now, referring to the subpoena which has been 3 marked Plaintiff's Monsanto Exhibit 1, can you tell me what 4 portion of the subpoena you produced these documents in 5 response to? 6 A It's paragraph D in the schedule denominated 7 IV, documents to be produced, copies of all brochures, 8 advertisements. That's what that would be responsive to, 9 literature, et cetera. 10 Q Okay. In other words, these relate to Alcoa 11 in particular? 12 A These related to product which Monsanto sold 13 to Alcoa. 14 Q Okay, so in other words, you do not, if there IS was an advertisement for a PCB containing fluid that you did 16 not sell to Alcoa, as indicated by the documents we have 17 discussed earlier, it is not included here? 18 A That's correct. 19 MR. EOLZ: Thank you. That's all the questions 20 I have. 21 22 Q (By Mr. Wayne) Who is Mr. Nassif? 23 A I'ra sorry? 24 Q Who is Mr. Nassif? 25 A Mr. Nassif was a lawyer here in St. Louis. 1 03 WATER PCB-SD0000027343 1 Q Was he your predecessor? 2 A He worked with me for a time at Monsanto and he 3 was my predecessor in responsibility for these cases. 4 Q And Mr. Nassif is now in private practice? 5 A That's correct. 6 Q Here in St. Louis? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Is that N-a-s-s-i-f? 9 A That's correct. 10 Q Now, the next group of documents that I have is 11 product folder 5, entitled, "Pydraul BrochuresH and I show 12 these as ALC 000193 through ALC 000628. 13 MR. HOLZ: Folder 5, you say? 14 Q Yes. 15 MR. HOLZ: The title is -- 16 Q "Pydraul Brochures." 17 A Yes, sir, those are the relevant numbers. 18 Q Now, these are put together in groups as well? 19 A Yes. 20 Q And could you please mark each group as A 21 through whatever, I guess it would be number 8. 22 (Documents, handed to the reporter, were marked 23 for identification as Plaintiff's Monsanto Exhibits 8-A 24 through 8-LL, inclusive.) 25 Q Mr. Bistline, the documents that were contained r\ A WATER PCB-SD0000027344 1 in the product folder 5 which was called "Pydraul Brochures" 2 appears to be just as they're called, brochures relating 3 to Pydraul, is that correct? 4 A That's correct. 5 Q And can you tell me what file or files these 6 Pydraul brochures were found in at Monsanto? 7 A Again, these are contained in the PCBs files 8 which are under my custody. 9 Q Were there separate folders or files denominated 10 brochures or some separate labeling for these Pydraul 11 brochures? 12 A These brochures are kept at Monsanto in the 13 regular course in our research library, and others keep 14 them, too, but it's one of the things that the research 15 library is supposed to do, is to keep a set of these, not 16 just Pydraul but all brochures the company publishes with 17 respect to its products. 18 Q And is it correct that at or about the time that 19 a brochure was developed and prepared for distribution to 20 customers or others, that a copy of that brochure was kept 21 and maintained in the research library? 22 A That's my understanding, yes. 23 Q And that was a procedure going back to what time 24 frame, if you know? 25 A I don't know for certain but it's back since WATER PCB-SD0000027345 1 World War II as far as I have been able to determine. 2 Whether the practice existed before that, I don't know. 3 Q And in addition to having copies in the regular 4 research library, copies may have been maintained in other 5 files throughout Monsanto as well? 6 A That's correct. 7 Q And the files that you maintained, namely the 8 PCBs files in your custody also had copies of these 9 Pydraul brochures, is that correct? 10 A As I said before, the files that we collected, 11 the PCBs files had many of these brochures in multiple 12 copies, as you might imagine. 13 In order to make certain that we had all of 14 those brochures, we checked with the research library and IS constituted a set. 16 Q The documents that we have here are the result 17 of a search and a production of copies from both the regular 18 research library and/or your PCBs files so that you were 19 certain that you had a set of every Pydraul brochure in 20 response to the subpoena? 21 A Well, we had done our checking and assuring 22 before we got your subpoena, Mr. Wayne. We didn't have to 23 go back to research in order to do that inquiry. 24 Q I see. In other words, prior to your subpoena, 25 for purposes of your gathering together the PCBs files that t nC WATER PCB-SD0000027346 1 have a discrete unit, you had already searched the 2 research library as well as other files to put together a 3 complete set? 4 A That's correct. 5 Q All right. Now, what was the purpose of a 6 brochure like the one that has been marked 8-A, which is 7 193 through 208? 8 A Well, again my understanding of what they were 9 used for was as a source of technical information for 10 Monsanto's customers or prospective customers to acquaint 11 them with the physical properties and usages of, in this 12 case, Pydraul. 13 MR. HOLZ: Is that 8-A? 14 Q Yes, it's IS3 through 208, yes. And were the 15 brochures prepared by Monsanto employees? 16 A Yes, sir. 17 Q And the information contained in there developed 18 from internal Monsanto information? 19 A That's correct. 20 Q And do you know whether brochures like the ones 21 produced here as Exhibit 8 were sent with each shipment of 22 a particular product or whether they were sent under 23 separate cover to a customer, or how they were delivered to 24 customers? 25 A These brochures could be acquired by or WATER PCB-SD0000027347 1 delivered to a customer by a variety of means. My 2 understanding is they were not sent with the product 3 shipments. Typically they were given to customers by 4 Monsanto sales people when sales people made calls, or would 5 be supplied upon request to Monsanto from the customer. 6 Q What else besides the labels on the actual 7 container that was shipped to a customer would go with the 8 container or the shipment, if anything? 9 A The normal -- 10 Q To your understanding? 11 A The normal document one would expect for a 12 shipment, bill of lading, that sort of thing. 13 Q All right, and do you recognize the documents 14 marked as Exhibits 8-A through LL as being true and accurate 15 copies of brochures in the files of Monsanto? 16 A Yes. 17 Q Can you determine either from the document or 18 from some other source the date or dates on which each 19 brochure would have been printed and used by Monsanto? 20 A Not in all cases, Mr. Wayne. Some of the 21 brochures are dated. They bear a date either on their face 22 or at the end. 23 Q Could you give me one example of one that you 24 can clearly from its face determine the date, either a 25 printing or a use? WATER PCB-SD0000027348 1 A I just had one that slipped back in. 2 Q Sure. 3 A I refer you to thedocument that bears page 4 000321. 5 Q Okay, 321. 6 A It's called, "Fire Resistant Hydraulic Fluid 7 Physical Property Comparison Chart.H It should be the 8 document I had of 325. 9 Q Off the record. 10 (Whereupon, a short discussion was had off the 11 record.) 12 THE WITNESS: You will note, Mr. Wayne, that on 13 page 00321 there's the date October, 1961 over the Monsanto ; 14 logo. 15 Q Okay. Does that date reflect the printing date? 16 A Yes. 17 Q And would there be some way to determine when 18 that was used, i.e., how long that was out in the marketplace 19 for use? 20 A The best way would be to determine whether it 21 had a successor. 22 Q Okay. Would you be able to, in the course of 23 your review back at your office, to make that kind of 24 determination? 25 A I will to the extent that we can do it, yes. inn WATER PCB-SD0000027349 1 Q Okay. 2 A Sometimes we can; sometimes we can't. 3 Q Fine. 4 A There are other documents in here which also 5 bear dates. 6 Q I note on some, for instance there are code 7 numbers at the bottom. I'11 just give you one example. 8 On 000359 at the bottom right-hand corner, there's some 9 code numbers -- 10 MR. HOLZ: 00 -- which is part of -- 11 Q Part of another document. 12 MR. HOLZ: What's your letter? 13 Q Part of 3 and starting at 000351 and the bottom 14 on the right-hand corner, there's some numbers, I don't 15 know whether they have any significance or what they mean. 16 A No, I don't know, either. What I would suggest 17 is more significant for that particular document, Mr. Wayne, 18 if you look at the front page, which is page 000351, there's 19 a designation there O-FF/3. 20 That's the designation for this particular 21 technical bulletin. 22 Q In any event, you will try to check that out for 23 us? 24 Mr. Bistline, my copies of the document which 25 you produced do not have 000629 through 000649. I just WATER PCB-SD0000027350 1 wanted to check with you as to whether or not such numberingj 2 or documents were produced or whether that's a gap in the 3 numbering system. 4 A That's a gap in the numbering, Mr. Wayne. 5 Q Fine, okay. 6 A No documents were produced with those numbers 7 on them. 8 Q Okay, fine. 9 MR. HOLZ: Give me the numbers again, 629 10 through 649? 11 Q That's right. Okay. I don't have any further 12 questions on these brochures. 13 14 EXAMINATION BY MR. HOLZ: 15 Q Okay. Mr. Bistline, is it fair to say that 16 these brochures that you have been discussing with Mr. 17 Wayne or sales related documents, sales aids? 18 A Yes. 19 Q As opposed to say, use documents? 20 A Well, I think they could have both functions, 21 depending on the customer situation. There is significant 22 information in here tc enable the customer to determine 23 whether this product is suitable for a particular use. 24 Q I had in mind how to use it as opposed to for 25 what to use it for. WATER PCB-SD0000027351 i A That's fair. 2 Q These are not use instructions but rather they're 3 what the product -- 4 A For the most part, that's correct, although 5 there may be in here information which some would consider 6 use instructions. 7 For example, in the first brochure here, 000193, 8 look at page 202, there are instructions for converting, 9 changeover from another fluid to Pydraul. 10 Q Okay. 11 A I believe in some there's also information -- 12 oh, yes, here at page 206 in the same bulletin, there are 13 some instructions on filtering and reclaiming of used or 14 contaminated fluids. 15 Q Isn't it fair to say the purpose of this 16 information is to show the customer it's easy to do this? 17 Would you expect these to be the detailed instructions as 18 to how to carry out these -- 19 A For that particular item, I would think so. 20 The audience to which these bulletins were addressed would 21 be composed of individuals technically sophisticated, 22 expected to look at something like that and understand how 23 to perform the function. 24 Q Are you saying there were no further instructions 25 given? 11O WATER PCB-SD0000027352 1 A I'm not certain of that. I'm unaware of 2 additional printed materials from Monsanto which would give 3 more detailed instructions on precisely how to use the 4 Pydraul parts. 5 I don't believe there were any more use 6 instructions in that sense. 7 Q If there had been such use instructions, you 8 would have produced them pursuant to the subpoena, would 9 you have not? 10 A Yes, sir. 11 Q So it is then fair to say in the PCBs files 12 which you have custody of, there are no such use documents? 13 MR. WAYNE; Other than transientially as 14 referred to here. 15 Q I'm not trying tocharacterize it. 16 A That's correct. 17 Q As far as use documents, we have got them? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Is it not fair to say from your knowledge of 20 the uses of PCEs both as, excuse me, PCBs containing fluid, 21 as contained in these documents as well as other knowledge 22 you may have gained in your work, that individual product 23 formulations are quite specific as to their use? 24 A Within certain parameters, Ithink that's 25 accurate. Again, I'm certainly not the appropriate person WATER PCB-SD0000027353 1 to get into any depth or detail with on that topic. 2 Q Well, let me put it another way. I'm not, I'm 3 just trying to get a general knowledge, not a great 4 technical depth, but if we took a given product, Pydraul 5 200A for example, I picked that out of the air, you would 6 not expect the exact particular product to have a broad 7 range of uses, would you? 8 MR. WAYNE: I'm going to object to the form of 9 the question. You may answer. 10 A I would say it probably had several uses but 11 that one of the purposes of this material, if you look at 12 it, I'm referring to Exhibit 8, the material produced in 13 Exhibit 8, that there were a number of products which were 14 recommended or said to be suitable for specific uses, and 15 that was the basis for selecting one product rather than 16 the other. 17 Q Okay, so it's a product selection, aprocess of 18 picking the one best suited for the particular use and 19 there's quite a range of products, isn't that fair to say? 20 A That's correct. 21 Q Is it not also true that the documents you have 22 produced here cover a broad range of products and not just 23 those that you're, the documents we discussed earlier, 24 indicate were supplied to Alcoa? 25 A That's correct, yes, sir. WATER PCB-SD0000027354 1 Q So not all the products that are covered by 2 these brochures were supplied to Alcoa? 3 A That's correct. 4 Q Now, is it also not fair to say that you are 5 unable to say which if any of these brochures were furnished 6 to Alcoa? 7 A That's correct. 8 Q Now, as to the dates of these brochures, you 9 indicated, I believe, that you could determine if a brochure 10 was succeeded by another brochure in certain instances? 11 A Most instances, I believe that's correct. 12 Q Are you able to tell us how many brochures were 13 printed or distributed? 14 A That information is available, I believe, in 15 some cases. 16 Q The total number printed? 17 A The total run, yes, I could find out. That 18 information is reflected, in fact, in certain instances 19 within the documents that we've got here in front of us. 20 As an example, on document, page 000241, if 21 you will note at the top left-hand corner, there's an 22 indication in handwritten, total quantity, q-u-a-n, I 23 assume quantity, 3,000, 24 Q 7Jhat is that above that? 25 A I can't -- something "run". WATER PCB-SD0000027355 1 Q Can you tell what the number is? I can't read 2 it. 3 A No, I can't read it on my copy, either. I'll 4 have to see if the original backup on this is any better. 5 MR. WAYNE: Would you be able to determine for 6 us from your records then how many were printed and 7 distributed on various brochures? 8 THE WITNESS: I'm unable to answer that question 9 I could in maybe some instances which I could determine 10 how many were printed. I'm not certain I could ever tell 11 you how many were distributed. 12 MR. WAYNE: Would you be able to at least 13 check the number printed in your office? 14 THE WITNESS: To the extent we have that 15 information, yes. 16 Q (By Mr. Holz) Can you give me the letter 17 designation of the document which begins 241? 18 MR. WAYNE: Yes, hold on, 8-D. 19 Q Now, Mr. Bistline, if a document was not 20 succeeded by another document, is it not fair to say we 21 would still not be able to determine the latest date at 22 which copies of that unsucceeded document were sent out? 23 A It may be possible to determine that, Mr. Holz. 24 For example, if the product were discontinued -- 25 2 All right. WATER PCB-SD0000027356 1 A -- one could assume that the date of 2 discontinuation of that product would approximate the date 3 at which literature relative to the product was no longer 4 distributed. 5 Q But that would be an assumption? 6 A Yes. 7 Q And likewise, it would be an assumption because 8 a product wasn't discontinued, that a particular brochure 9 was still being distributed? 10 A I think, yes, that would be an assumption. 11 We don't have, to my knowledge, any records to indicate 12 except in very few circumstances that brochures were in 13 fact sent to specific customers. 14 Q In other words, no records were kept of how many IS were sent out? 16 A No. 17 Q Or whether something needed to be reprinted? 18 A Occasionally there is a, in the file, I'm 19 thinking more of labels, not the brochures, occasionally 20 we would see an indication that a new run was ordered. 21 Q That's sort of after the fact, you don't see 22 anything to indicate, or do you, that something needs to be 23 reprinted? 24 A I'm not aware of anything of that nature. 25 Q There's no, you have not found any records that WATER PCB-SD0000027357 1 relate to how the things are printed or kept track of, 2 inventoried or catalogued inventory, let's stick with 3 inventory? 4 A That's correct, I'm not familiar with the 5 existence of any such records. 6 MR. HOLS: That's all the questions I have. 7 8 Q (By Mr. Wayne) You indicated before that these 9 brochures might be sent to a customer or a potential 10 customer or delivered by a salesman to a customer or a 11 potential customer? 12 A That's correct. 13 Q And was it the standard practice for salesmen 14 to have a number of copies of various brochures for delivery 15 to customers? 16 A Yes. The practice was that the salesmen would 17 have literature relevant to the products he's selling, 18 current and relevant for distribution as needed. 19 Q If a salesman was to call upon a customer and 20 needed to get a supply of the brochures for the product 21 which he or she were selling or discussing, would there be 22 some central repository where that salesman could get copies 23 of brochures, how would that person get the brochures, or 24 don't you know? 25 A I don't know. WATER PCB-SD0000027358 1 Q In any event, the practice was for salespersons 2 to have access to and supplies of the brochures for delivery 3 to customers? 4 A That's correct, for the products that the 5 salesman was selling. 6 Q Okay, and it would be normal practice to your 7 understanding for salesmen to make use of those brochures 8 in their travels to various customers? 9 A Yes. 10 Q And as far as you know, that would have been 11 the normal practice for any salesman involved with Alcoa, 12 isn't that right? 13 A Not just Alcoa, with any customer. 14 Q Now, as far as reprints or reruns of the 15 brochures is concerned, you said you didn't see in the files 16 any specific reference to reruns? 17 A Let me say, Mr. Wayne, I have never been asked 18 to look for it. It's conceivable that the record might be 19 there, although I doubt it. 20 Q Okay. 21 A I have never personally looked for any. I'm 22 not aware that it exists. 23 Q Would you be able to, in this growing check 24 list, determine whether or not there's any record of any 25 reprint or reruns of any of these brochures? WATER PCB-SD0000027359 1 A I'll look. I'm not certain what kind of a job i j 2 we're talking about. 3 Q Without putting you through an inordinate 4 burden, if you could at least check and see if there is 5 some easy way to find that information. 6 A I'll make the inquiry, yes. i I 7 MR. WAYNE: I don't have anything further on j 8 the Pydraul brochures. j 9j 10 EXAMINATION BY MR. HOLE: j j 11 Q Mr. Eistline, how do you know what thepractice ! 12 af salesmen have been as regards any givenperiod, as 13 regards the use of brochures? 1 14 A Several ways, Mr. Holz. Firstof all, from ' 15 conversations with a small number of Monsanto salesmen; ; i 16 second of all, conversations with a somewhat larger number 17 of present and former Monsanto employees who dealt with 18 sales people, in my questioning responded with the ; 19 information relevant to what the salesmens' practices were , 20 with respect to these bulletins and brochures. ; 21 Q Now, is it not fair to say that a given salesman i would have a fairly broad range of brochures available to 23 ! him? 24 | I 25 | A Q x es . And how 'could he determine what brochures to WATER PCB-SD0000027360 1 give to what customers? 2 A It would depend upon what product the customer either was using or the salesman was trying to interest 3 the prospective customer in using. 4 5 Q Is it fair to say it's a judgment call on the 6 part of the salesman? A To an extent, I would also say it's a question 8 of whether the salesman had an insight into the type of business he was calling on. 9 10 The salesman knows what the companies products 11 are and one of his functions is to try to match those 12 products with what the business is doing. 13 Q It is not your testimony, am I correct, that the 14 practice was fcr salesmen to simply paper all the customers 15 with all the possible brochures? 16 A Certainly not. 17 MR. IJOLZ: That's all the questions I have. 18 19 Q (By Mr. Wayne) All right. The last grouping 20 of documents, what is called product folder number 6 are 21 Aroclor brochures and my indications are that those run from ALC 000550 to ALC 001203. 23 A Yes. 24 MR. YOLZ: What's the beginning number? 25 P 550. Would you as Exhibit 9 do the same WATER PCB-SD0000027361 1 numbering here with these brochures? 2 (Documents, handed to the reporter, were marked 3 for identification as Plaintiff Monsanto Exhibits 9-A through 9-S, inclusive.) Q For the record, we have marked the Aroclor 6 brochures as Plaintiff's Exhibits 9-A through 9-S. 7 I will give you the numbers of the things later. 8 MR. HOLZ: Yes. 9 ! 10 ! 11 I 12 I Q And I believe we have agreed upon a stipulation that the same questions that I asked you, sir, with regard to the Pydraul brochures are considered to have been asked of you with regard to the .Aroclor brochures, and your 13 !! 14 answers to those questions except as it relates to the name Aroclor versus Pydraul would apply to the .Aroclor 15 brochures, is that correct? j ! 16 17 ; I 18 19 A Yes. MR. I-IOLZ: Yes, and that the questions I asked --* C Eimilariv. Mr. Kolz's Questions similarly would i I be treated the same and the answers the same? | 20 A Yes. 21 ; 22 i | 23 !! i 24 | j 25 | MR. I-IOLZ: And also the request you made concerning certain additional information? C Mould be the same? A. Yes. q For purposes of later use of this testimony, WATER PCB-SD0000027362 1 we will consider that as if the question had been asked and 2 answered in the same manner. ! i 3j MR. HOLZ: Exactly. i 41 Q Now, Mr. Bistline, in connection with the 5 search of the files of Monsanto to respond to the subpoena, 6 ! was a search made of any other files other than the PCBs I 7 i files in your custody? | 8 ! A No, sir. 9 I Q Now, how do you know then that there are not 10 i 11 other documents that might be responsive to the subpoena located in other places, locations, offices of Monsanto j | 12 in St. Louis other than in the PCBs files in your custody? 13 A The Law Department has, Mr. Mayne, over a 14 number of years, conducted an extensive search for all ' I ; 15 documents relatir.a" to PCBs in St. Louis and other locations i j 16 where those documents might be used and/or would be found. j j 17 : T\7e have made a good faith effort to gather in j 18 one place all of the PCBs related documents in Monsanto's 19 possession and we monitor those locations where PCBs related I I 20 documents are currently being generated so that my file i j21 contains copies of all of those documents as well, so what l 22 d would state to you is that we have a reasonable basis for l 23 believing that there is in ny custody all of the documents j 24 that exist an Monsanto with respect to PCBs. q do of the category of the documents requested WATER PCB-SD0000027363 1 in the subpoena related to correspondence between Alcoa and 2 Monsanto and between the Edgewater facility of Alcoa and 3 Monsanto -- 4 A Yes. 5 Q -- most if not all of the documents you have 6 produced do not have site specific information concerning Edgewater? / 8 A That's correct. In fact, I don't believe any 9 documents that I have produced to you contain site specific 10 information with respect to Edgewater. 11 Q What makes you believe that the PCEs files 12 which you have would have been collected and gathered 13 together to include --- strike that. 14 Do you have any understanding as to the 15 gathering together process for the PCEs files in terms of 16 what files were searched? 17 A Yes. 18 Q Can you fell me what that is, what was done? 19 A We engaged in a search from several directions. 20 That search included a listing of all individuals whom we 21 could identify as ever having been involved in Monsanto in 22 the sale of PCEs products, 23 A search was then made of all document storage 24 facilities as well as personal files of the individuals 25 identified who may have had PCEs related documents in their WATER PCB-SD0000027364 1 possession 2 We reviewed and acquired those documents -- 3 Q Okay. A --that we found. 4 5 Q And would those persons include salesmen who may have sold PCBs containing fluid? 6 | A To the extent that we could identify those files j 7 ii 8 yes. j | 9 Q And would those persons also be persons in the * 10 Organic Division? A Yes. 11 ! 12 Q And would you be searching individual files or ; 13 customer files or both? ' 14 A To the extent that they were different. both IS would be searched. 16 However, what we did was focus on the business 17 group that handled the products. A file maintained on : 18 Alcoa in a different business group, although I'm not aware ; 19 of any offhand that didn't relate to PCBs or relate to 20 sales of PCBs would not be likely to contain information 21 that would be relevant to PCBs. j i j 22 Q If a plant of Alcoa that dealt with another j 23 division other than the organic fluid division, for whatever j j24 reason would those records have been searched to form the 25 basis of any of the records in the PCBs files? ; WATER PCB-SD0000027365 1 A Probably not unless there was an indication 2 from the files that we were reviewing that other files 3 outside the orbit of the search defined would contain 4 relevant information. 5 Q Is there some way from the filing system 6 generally at Monsanto regardless of which division is 7 involved, that there would be a search to determine whether 8 or not any kind of correspondence came from the Edgewater 9 facility to Monsanto regardless of whether it related to 10 PCBs or not? 11 A I don't know the answer to that question as I 12 sit here. 13 Q Okay. 14 A That would depend upon whether the Ag. or 15 Agricultural Company, for example, dealt with Alcoa, 16 Edgewater, which seems highly unlikely. 17 Q Would each division have files related to 18 customer and/or sites, specific plants of customers? 19 A Possibly. I would think it most unlikely, 20 however, that another division of Monsanto would have in 21 its files documents relating to PCBs that were not also 22 contained in the files that we looked at. 23 Q Now, what offices of Monsanto were searched for 24 PCBs containing information besides the St. Louis complex? 25 Do you know whether there were other locations of Monsanto's WATER PCB-SD0000027366 1 offices where records were searched? 2 A Yes, yes. There were the locations which the 3 products were physically produced in. Monsanto had two 4 production facilities for PCBs products, one at the 5 Krummrich plant which is in Sauget, Illinois, across the 6 Mississippi River here; the other one is at Anniston, 7 Alabama. 8 Q The production places would be searched? 9 A Those offices were searched as well as the 10 various sales offices. 11 Q Okay. Do you know whether there were any sales 12 offices in Ohio or in Pennsylvania that may have been 13 searched for PCBs documents? i | 14 A Mr. Wayne, I don't have in mind right now the 15 locations of various sales offices. If there was an office ; 16 in that state that did deal with functional fluid group, a ; 17 request would have been made and a search made of files in j 18 that office. ! i 19 Q Would there have been a search at any warehousesi '! 20 at that time that Monsanto may have had with respect to iI ] 21 PCBs documents? ! | 22 A Certainly. 23 Q Do you know offhand or have any understanding 24 as to whether there were any warehouses in the State of 25 New Jersey that Monsanto owned or operated since World War II WATER PCB-SD0000027367 for the warehousing of PCBs containing fluid? A I don't know the answer to that question. Q Okay. Would you be able to check to see if there were any warehouses in New Jersey for which documents were searched? I A I'm not sure I understand yourquestion. Q Okay. A Did Monsanto have a warehouse in NewJersey at which documents relating to PCBs were stored? Q That's right. A And if so -- Q Was it searched? 1 i , I ; : | j A Was it searched? Q Yes. : A I can check into it. ! Q I believe you testified earlier that shipping i records which form part of the basis of the sales summaries | may nolonger be kept or maintained, you know, in the files? ! (i j A That's correct. j Q Is there any way to determine from existing ; records from where and to where particular documents are ! i , listed in the sales summary were shipped? i j A Only to the extent the underlying documents j ; ; i stillexist. ! | Q And in the course of searching to be responsive t WATER PCB-SD0000027368 to the subpoena, do you know or have any understanding as to whether or not any records were searched to determine shipments from Monsanto to Edgewater? A Yes, that search was made. Q And no -- A No records were found. Q Were able to be found? A That's correct. Q The search was made of the PCBs files in your custody? A That's correct. Q Does Monsanto retain records dating back to the fifties or sixties of warehouses that were in operation at that time? A I don't know the answer to that question. I would assume that the information could be obtained. Q Would you just check to see yes or no, if such documents -- A Let me make sure I understand what you're looking for. You're looking for any warehouse for any purpose anywhere in the country? Q Well, in fairness to you, I don't want you to go searching -- A That's what I'm trying to -- Q -- wildly, I'm looking, so we're all clear, to i **\ WATER PCB-SD0000027369 1 see if there are any records that exist that might show 2 shipments from warehouse X to Edgewater, and I do not know yet, you know, what warehouse or warehouses might have been 3 the primary or substantial source of such deliveries, which 4 5 Monsanto -- 6 A Let me just say this, with respect to the products that were sold to Alcoa, those products were not 7 8 warehouses as an intermediate stopping point. 9 Q Okay. i 10 A Before they weredistributed to customers, 11 those products were shipped directly from Monsanto1s 12 production facility to the customer. 13 Q Would it be shipped either then from the 14 Illinois or the Indiana -- 15 A Alabama. 16 Q Excuse me, Alabama facility? , 17 A That's correct. 18 Q Do you know whether or not records of the 19 Illinois or the Alabama facility relating to shipments of 20 PCBs fluids are still in existence? 21 A Not unless I have them in my custody. All 22 existing documents of that type were looked for and to the 23 extent they could be found, they were acquired for the PCBs 24 document files that I have in my custody. 25 Q Would you be able to then tell us to a certainty WATER PCB-SD0000027370 1 A Reasonable certainty? 2 Q -- reasonable -- 3 A Never as a hundred per cent. 4 Q -- reasonable certainty whether or not your 3 staff did have access in connection with their search for 6 ;I being responsive to this subpoena, to any of the Illinois ! 7 or Alabama shipping records that might reflect PCBs 8 ! shipments to any Alcoa plant? 9 10 | ii ! 13 A That's my belief, yes, based on what I consider j i i to be the very rigorous efforts that we have made over the ; past years to do precisely what you're concerned about, that is make sure that we have in our possession all PCBs ! i i j related documents. I would say yes. ! 14 15 ! 1 16 : f 17 i ! i 18 ! MR. WAYNE: Okay. I don't have anything furtherj ; MR. HOLZ: I have no further questions. MR. WAYNE: Thank you very much. We appreciate it. When you develop this information, you can send a letter co me and Lee and we'll take it from there. , i ^ 19 ; 20 j Thomas M. Sistline 21 : Subscribed and sworn to before me this S) t\i day of , 1988. j) 22 ; r, I My commission expires:_____________________ 23 24 25 Notary Public WATER PCB-SD0000027371 1 NOTARIAL CERTIFICATE 2 STATE OF MISSOURI ) ) SS. 3 CITY OF ST. LOUIS ) 4 I, Evelyn M. Weir, Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public duly commissioned and qualified 5 in and for the City of St. Louis, State of Missouri, do herebY certify that pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure 6 there came before me on the 9th day of February, 1988, at the law offices of Greensfelder, Hemker, Wiese, Gale and 7 Chappelow, 18 South Broadway, St. Louis, Missouri, the following named person, to-wit, Thomas M. Bistline, who was 8 me duly sworn to testify to the truth and nothing but the truth of his knowledge touching and concerning the matters in 9 controversy in this cause; that he was thereupon carefully examined upon his oath and his examination reduced to 10 writing under my supervision; that the deposition is a true record of the testimony given by the witness; and that the 11 said witness read the same and subscribed his name thereto. 12 I further certify that I am neither attorney or counsel for, nor related to or employed by any of the 13 parties to the action in which this deposition is taken, and further that I am not a relative or employee of any 14 attorney or counsel employed by the parties hereto or financially interested in the action. 15 In witness whereof I have hereunto set my hand 16 and affixed my notarial seal this day of , 1988. 17 My commission expires May 28, 1991. 18 19 20 Notary Public within and for the City of St. Louis, State of Missouri. 21 22 23 24 25 WATER PCB-SD0000027372