Document 2RZZgMKDgE8dZyEV0Lq73q4o7

3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo In B. 0001 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES 3 4 PEDRO BARRAGAN AND ISABEL ) BARRAGAN ) 5) Plaintiffs, ) 6 vs. ) ) NO. BC343999 7) ACCO-AIR CONDITIONING ) 8 COMPANY, INC., ET AL., ) ) 9 Defendants. ) ) 10 11 12 13 14 TELEPHONIC DEPOSITION OF CARLO MARTINO 15 Thursday, March 1, 2007 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 REPORTED BY: 23 JENNIFER J. ANGELOV CSR NO. 12287 24 JOB NO. 25 50063KEL 1 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in B, 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES 3 4 PEDRO BARRAGAN AND ISABEL ) BARRAGAN ) 5) Plaintiffs, ) 6 vs. ) ) NO. BC343999 7) ACCO-AIR CONDITIONING ) 8 COMPANY, INC., ET AL., ) ) 9 Defendants. ) ) 10 11 12 13 Deposition of CARLO MARTINO, taken on 14 behalf of Plaintiffs, commencing at 8:12 a.m. on 15 Thursday, March 1, 2007, before Jennifer J. 16 Angelov, CSR No. 12287, a Certified Shorthand 17 Reporter for the State of California. 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 For the Plaintiffs: 4 KELLER, FISHBACK & JACKSON, LLP 5 BY: BRUCE JACKSON Attorney at Law 6 28720 Roadside Drive Suite 201 7 Agoura Hills, California 91301 (818) 879-8033 8 9 For Defendants American Standard, Inc. and Haas & Haynie: 10 11 PRINDLE, DECKER & AMARO BY: MICHAEL SCHUCK 12 Attorney at Law 310 Golden Shore 13 4th Floor Long Beach, California 90802 14 (562) 436-3946 15 For Defendant G&G Air Conditioning: 16 17 LEWIS, BRISBOIS, BISGAARD & SMITH, LLP BY: JUDD GILEFSKY 18 Attorney at Law 221 North Figueroa Street 19 Suite 1200 Los Angeles, California 90012 20 (213) 250-1800 21 22 23 24 25 3 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 APPEARANCES (CONTINUED): 2 3 For Defendant Eaton Corporation: 4 HOWARD, ROME, MARTIN & RIDLEY 5 BY: PIA MC DOUGALL Attorney at Law 6 1775 Woodside Road Suite 200 7 Redwood City, California 94061 (650) 365-7715 8 9 For Defendant Thomas & Betts: 10 BURNHAM BROWN 11 BY: HOLLY KERSHELL Attorney at Law 12 1901 Harrison Street 11th Floor 13 Oakland, California94612-3501 (510) 444-6800 14 15 For Defendant Ericsson, Inc.: 16 SELMAN BREITMAN, LLP 17 BY: KAREN GOLDBERG Attorney at Law 18 33 New Montgomery Sixth Floor 19 San Francisco, California 94105-4537 (415) 979-0400 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo In Barraga n 1 APPEARANCES (CONTINUED): 2 3 For Defendant Union Carbide: 4 MC KENNA, LONG & ALDRIDGE, LLP 5 BY: BARBARA SAFECHUK Attorney at Law 6 444 South Flower Street 8th Floor 7 Los Angeles, California 90071-2901 (213) 688-1000 8 9 For Defendant Texas Instruments: 10 SCHIFF HARDIN, LLP 11 BY: YAKOV WIEGMANN Attorney at Law 12 One Market Plaza Spear Street Tower 13 32nd Floor San Francisco, California 94105 14 (415) 901-8700 15 For Defendant Georgia-Pacific Corporation: 16 17 NELSON, MULLINS, RILEY & SCARBOROUGH, LLP BY: THOMAS WAMSLEY 18 Attorney at Law 999 Peachtree Street, NE 19 Suite 1400 Atlanta, Georgia 30309-3964 20 (404) 817-6121 21 22 23 24 25 5 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in B. 1 APPEARANCES (CONTINUED): 2 3 Specially Appearing for Defendant Georgia-Pacific Corporation: 4 5 PERKINS COIE, LLP BY: LISA OLLE 6 Attorney at Law 180 Townsend Street 7 3rd Floor San Francisco, California 94107-1909 8 (415) 344-7000 9 For Defendants McDonnell Douglas Corporation and The 10 Boeing Corporation: 11 BRYAN CAVE, LLP 12 BY: RENEE WILLIAMS Attorney at Law 13 120 Broadway Suite 300 14 Santa Monica, California 90401-2386 (310) 576-2379 15 16 For Defendant Union Carbide and the Witness: 17 MAYER, BROWN, ROWE & MAW 18 BY: KATHERINE CLARK Attorney at Law 19 71 South Wacker Drive Chicago, Illinois 60606 20 (312) 701-7790 21 22 23 24 25 6 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 APPEARANCES (CONTINUED): 2 3 For Defendant Acco-Air Conditioning Company: 4 VASQUEZ & ESTRADA 5 BY: LLOYD COWELL Attorney at Law 6 914 Mission Avenue 2nd Floor 7 San Rafael, California 94901 (415) 453-0555 8 9 For Reinhold Industries, Inc. and Hamilton Materials, Inc.: 10 11 WALSWORTH, FRANKLIN, BEVINS & MC CALL, LLP BY: KAVITA TEKCHANDANI 12 Attorney at Law Once City Boulevard West 13 Fifth Floor Orange, California 92868-3677 14 (714) 634-2522 15 For Defendant Square D: 16 17 KIRKPATRICK & LOCKHART NICHOLSON GRAHAM, LLP BY: PAUL KELLY 18 Attorney at Law Four Embarcadero Center 19 10th Floor San Francisco, California 94111 20 (415) 249-1000 21 22 23 24 -o0o25 7 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 INDEX 2 EXAMINATION BY PAGE 3 MR. JACKSON 9 4 5 EXHIBITS 6 PLAINTIFFS' PAGE 7 1 Notice of Deposition 59 (13 pages) 8 2 Confirmation Letter 59 9 (2 pages) 10 DEFENDANTS' PAGE 11 A Notice of Taking of Depositions of Union 59 Carbide Corporation's Most Knowledgeable 12 and Custodian of Records and Request for Production of Documents and Things and 13 Objections to Notice of Taking of Depositions of Union Carbide 14 Corporation's Most Knowledgeable and Custodian of Records and Request for 15 Production of Documents and Things (23 pages) 16 B 2/21/07 Meet-and-Confer Letter (2 pages) 59 17 18 INFORMATION TO BE SUPPLIED 19 (NONE) 20 21 QUESTIONS MARKED 22 (NONE) 23 24 25 8 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo In B. 1 TELEPHONIC DEPOSITION; THURSDAY, MARCH 1, 2007 2 8:12 a.m. 3 4 5 (Discussion held off the record.) 6 (Whereupon it was stipulated by counsel to have 7 the reporter swear the witness from a remote 8 location.) 9 10 CARLO MARTINO, 11 having declared under penalty of perjury to tell 12 the truth, was examined and testified as follows: 13 14 EXAMINATION 15 BY MR. JACKSON: 16 Q Good morning, Mr. Martino. 17 This is Bruce Jackson, counsel for Pedro 18 Barragan. 19 You understand that you're under oath to give a 20 deposition in the Barragan case today? 21 A Yes, I am. 22 Q Can you tell me how many depositions you've 23 given as a consultant for Union Carbide in the last year? 24 MS. SAFECHUK: Bruce, before you proceed with 25 the deposition, I want to take care of some housekeeping 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Ba 1 matters for the record. 2 MR. JACKSON: Go ahead. 3 MS. SAFECHUK: Thank you. 4 As a result of meet-and-confer efforts with your 5 office, the parties have stipulated to certain conditions 6 under which this deposition will proceed upon, and that 7 first deposition reached between -- or stipulation 8 reached between the parties is that out-of-state national 9 counsel, Katherine Clark, may participate in this 10 deposition. 11 So at this point I'd ask, do any other counsel 12 on the phone have any objection to Miss Clark's 13 participation in this deposition as an out-of-state 14 lawyer? 15 All right. Hearing no objection, we have a 16 stipulation by all. 17 And then second stipulation reached between the 18 parties pertains to the scope of this deposition. The 19 witness, Mr. Martino, is being produced today pursuant to 20 Plaintiffs' notice of deposition, dated December 15, 21 2006, subject to the following agreed upon conditions: 22 No. 1, that the witness's testimony will be 23 limited to Union Carbide phenolic resin and phenolic 24 molding compound business. 25 Secondly, that the witness will provide general 9 10 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in B. I testimony regarding application of Union Carbide resin - 2 phenolic resin and phenolic molding compound products, 3 and then third, the witness will provide general 4 testimony regarding the companies to which Union Carbide 5 sold its phenolic resin and phenolic molding compounds. 6 And then finally, with respect to documents, a 7 search of the repository was conducted, and there were no 8 sales records for Plaintiff's job site locations as 9 identified in Exhibit 1 attached to Plaintiffs' notice of 10 deposition, dated December 15, 2006. II We have also made Union Carbide's document 12 repository available to Plaintiffs' counsel, and as I 13 understand it, Mr. Jackson, your office is still deciding 14 if and when you want to do so. 15 And with that, we can proceed. 16 Thank you. 17 MR. JACKSON: And I'll go ahead and attach 18 Plaintiffs' notice of deposition as Exhibit 1. 19 I'll provide that to the court reporter after 20 the conclusion of the deposition. 21 And as Exhibit 2, it will be a letter confirming 22 the location and time of the deposition. 23 Those are the only two exhibits that I have to 24 attach. 25 MS. SAFECHUK: Then I would attach as 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 Defendants' Exhibit -- or Exhibit A the Plaintiffs' 2 deposition notice of December 15, 2006, as well as the 3 meet-and-confer letter setting out the conditions or the 4 limited scope of this deposition as Exhibit - 5 Defendants' Exhibit B. 6 And that letter is dated February 21, 2007. 7 And, Madam Court Reporter, I'll provide you with 8 those at the conclusion of the deposition. 9 Go ahead, Bruce. You may proceed. 10 BY MR. JACKSON: 11 Q All right. Mr. Martino, you understand you're 12 under oath for a deposition in the Pedro Barragan case, 13 correct? 14 A Yes, I do. 15 Q Can you tell me, have you given depositions as a 16 consultant on behalf of Union Carbide in the last year? 17 A Yes. 18 Q How many times have you done that? 19 A One, possibly two. I don't have my records 20 here. 21 Q When was the last time? 22 A I think it was July of last year. 23 Q Was that in regard to a Bakelite case? 24 A Yes. 25 Q And the other time in the last year, was it also 11 12 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo In B. 1 in regard to Bakelite? 2 A Yes. 3 Q Do you recall the jurisdiction of the lawsuit in 4 the one from July 2006? 5 A No, I don't. 6 Q Was it in California? 7 A The jurisdiction? 8 Q Yes. 9 Was the case filed in California, if you know? 10 A I don't think so. 11 Q Did you give your deposition in person or over 12 the phone? 13 A In -- it was over the phone. 14 Q And the previous one of this year, the 15 deposition that you gave, do you know the jurisdiction of 16 that case? 17 A No, I don't. 18 Q Do you know if it was filed in California? 19 A I don't think so. 20 Q Was that a phone deposition, or was that in 21 person? 22 A That, I think, was a phone deposition, also. 23 Q Okay. Have you given any in-person depositions 24 this year regarding Bakelite? 25 A Not this year. 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in B, 1 Q Have you testified at trial in the last year on 2 behalf of Union Carbide? 3 A No. 4 Q You're currentlyretired; isthat right? 5 A Yes. 6 Q When did you last work as an employee for the 7 company of Union Carbide? 8 A 1996. 9 Q And from '96 until today, approximately how much 10 of your time has been spent doing consulting work in 11 litigation for Union Carbide? 12 MS. SAFECHUK: Objection. Vague. Ambiguous. 13 Overbroad. 14 BY MR. JACKSON: 15 Q Do you understand thequestion, sir? 16 A Yes. 17 Oh, it totals possibly two to three weeks out of 18 the year. 19 Q How are you compensated for your consulting 20 work? 21 A By the hour. 22 Q And what is your hourly rate? 23 A For work reviewing documents and that sort of 24 thing, $150 an hour. Travel time is $75 an hour, and 25 depositions and testifying in court is $200 an hour. 13 14 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 Q Are you being paid for the consulting work that 2 you're doing today in the Barragan case? 3 A I will be. 4 Q And at the rate of $200 an hour; is that right? 5 A For the deposition, yes. 6 Q All right. Let me turn to your background with 7 Union Carbide. 8 You started with the company in 1948; is that 9 true? 10 A Yes. 11 Q And at that time you didn't have any direct 12 involvement with the Bakelite division? 13 A I worked - 14 MS. SAFECHUK: Vague. Ambiguous. 15 THE WITNESS: What was that? 16 BY MR. JACKSON: 17 Q Do you understand my question? 18 A I worked for the Bakelite division. 19 Q Okay. What part of the Bakelite division in 20 '48? 21 A It was the one located in Bound Brook, 22 Piscataway Township. 23 Q And when you started in 1948, can you tell me 24 what your job title was? 25 A Trainee. 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 Q How long did you hold the position of trainee? 2 A About ten months. 3 Q What was your next position with the company? 4 A I then was transferred to research and 5 development as a plastic engineer. 6 Q And how long did you stay with that department? 7 A Until I retired. 8 Q Okay. What was your general job description in 9 research and development? 10 A Well, it varied over periods of time. 11 I was promoted to -- on the technical ladder to 12 project scientist in 1958, and then I was promoted to 13 group manager of the polymer technical service group in 14 1959, and then in 1960, I became group manager of the 15 Bakelite molding and laminating resins group. 16 Q Until 1958, you were with the thermoplastic 17 division of Bakelite; is that correct? 18 MS. SAFECHUK: Misstates testimony. 19 THE WITNESS: Well, it wasn't a division. It 20 was a department, yes. 21 BY MR. JACKSON: 22 Q Okay. So until '58, you were with the 23 thermoplastics department? 24 A Yes. 25 Well, actually, I was -- in 1959, I had 15 16 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo In B. 1 thermoplastics and thermoset responsibility. 2 Q My question was from 1949 to 1958 - 3 A Yeah. You're correct. 4 Q -- you were with the thermoplastics department? 5 A Yes. 6 Q At that point in time with Union Carbide, did 7 you have any involvement with the formulation of the 8 Bakelite material? 9 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. 10 THE WITNESS: No, I did not. 11 BY MR. JACKSON: 12 Q Did you subsequently learn from your time with 13 Union Carbide the various formulations of Bakelite 14 material dating back to 1948 to 1958 time period? 15 A Yes. I had access to the records that I needed. 16 Q As of the time you started as a trainee in 1948, 17 did any of the Bakelite formulations at that time contain 18 asbestos? 19 MS. SAFECHUK: Objection. Vague and ambiguous. 20 THE WITNESS: Could you repeat the question, 21 please? 22 BY MR. JACKSON: 23 Q I'll actually rephrase it, Mr. Martino. 24 Is it true that you subsequently learned that 25 Union Carbide was using asbestos as a filler in some of 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Ba 1 their Bakelite formations between the time frame of 1948 2 and 1958? 3 A No, I did not. 4 MS. SAFECHUK: Belated objection. Vague. 5 Ambiguous. 6 Go ahead. 7 THE WITNESS: No, I did not. 8 BY MR. JACKSON: 9 Q Do you have any knowledge, as you sit here, that 10 Union Carbide was using asbestos as a filler in their 11 Bakelite product between '48 and '58? 12 MS. SAFECHUK: Vague. Ambiguous. 13 THE WITNESS: I do now. I did not then. 14 BY MR. JACKSON: 15 Q That was my question. 16 A Yes. 17 Q Did you subsequently learn that Union Carbide 18 was using asbestos as a filler in some of its Bakelite 19 formulations between 1948 and 1958? 20 A Yes, I did. 21 Q And how did you learn of this information? 22 A When I became manager of the molding material 23 group, I had to learn the background and the technology 24 of that area. That's the time that I learned about what 25 the formulations contained. 17 18 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 Q Did you subsequently learn what percentage of 2 the Bakelite formulations in this time frame of 1948 to 3 1958 actually contained asbestos as a filler? 4 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Foundation. 5 THE WITNESS: No, I did not. 6 BY MR. JACKSON: 7 Q So as you sit here today, do you have any 8 estimate from that time frame with Union Carbide, from 9 '48 to '58, what percentage of the Bakelite formulations 10 had asbestos in it? 11 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 12 THE WITNESS: I don't recall getting that 13 information, no. 14 BY MR. JACKSON: 15 Q Do you know if all of them did? 16 A No, they did not. 17 Q And what makes you say that? 18 A Because of the formulation I looked at when I 19 was taking over that group, many of them had -- in fact, 20 most of them had wood flour in them. 21 Q When you say "most of them had wood flour," did 22 any of them have wood flour and asbestos, as well? 23 A Some did, yes. 24 Q Can you give me an estimate as to -- did as many 25 as half of the formulations of Union Carbide between '48 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 and '58 have asbestos in them? 2 A No, they didn't. 3 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Ambiguous. 4 Go ahead, Carlo. 5 THE WITNESS: Never half, no. 6 BY MR. JACKSON: 7 Q Less than 25 percent? 8 A Yes. 9 Q Less than 10 percent? 10 A No. 11 Q Okay. I'll leave it at that range for now. 12 Did you subsequently come to understand why 13 asbestos was used as a filler in only some of the Union 14 Carbide Bakelite products between 1948 and 1958? 15 A Yes. 16 Q What's the explanation for that? 17 A It was used to -- for heat-resistant 18 applications. High temperatures. 19 Q Okay. So to understand that, if Bakelite 20 formulations were being made for some application that 21 did not require a high heat-resistant application, there 22 was no need to put asbestos into it? 23 A That's correct. 24 Q And that filler would just be what? 25 A Wood flour and occasionally some other fillers 19 20 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo In B. 1 would be added. Coal. 2 Q Is there a way to tell me at what temperature 3 setting asbestos would need to be added, or at least what 4 high temperature application you would need to include 5 asbestos as a filler? 6 MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. Vague. 7 THE WITNESS: Usually oven temperatures, four 8 hundred, five hundred degrees Farenheit, for long periods 9 of time. 10 BY MR. JACKSON: 11 Q In that same vein, between 1948 and 1958, is 12 there any way to tell me what percentage of the Union 13 Carbide Bakelite materials were actually high temperature 14 applications? 15 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Ambiguous. 16 MS. SAFECHUK: Also, it's beyond the agreed-upon 17 scope of the witness's testimony. 18 BY MR. JACKSON: 19 Q Do you have my question in mind, Mr. Martino? 20 A Well, they'd be a fraction of the -- a 21 percentage of the 10 to 25 percent we've already talked 22 about. 23 Q Well, did all high-temperature applications for 24 Bakelite in this time frame, '48 to '58, contain asbestos 25 as a filler? 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Ambiguous. 2 THE WITNESS: The percentage was adjusted, you 3 know -- asbestos was combined with other fillers 4 depending on the application. 5 BY MR. JACKSON: 6 Q Okay. Was it possible in 1948 to 1958 -- or 7 strike that. 8 To your knowledge, in that time frame, did Union 9 Carbide make Bakelite formulations for high-temperature 10 applications which did not include asbestos as a filler? 11 A Not that I'm aware of. 12 Q At some point did you come to understand what 13 the various applications were for the high heat-resistant 14 or high-temperature Bakelite products that were being 15 sold by Union Carbide? 16 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Ambiguous. 17 THE WITNESS: Yes, I did. 18 BY MR. JACKSON: 19 Q And so that I don't get too overbroad with my 20 years, between this time frame 1948 and 1958, what were 21 the applications for the high-temperature or high 22 heat-resistant Bakelite that Union Carbide was selling? 23 A Electrical components that would be exposed to 24 those high temperatures, such as that would be in ovens, 25 for example. High-voltage switch gear. 21 22 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 Those were the main ones. 2 Q Any others that you can think of? 3 A Not at this time, no. 4 Q How did you come to understand what those 5 applications were? 6 A Through our contacts with customers. 7 Q And do you recall who any of your customers were 8 in this time frame 1948 to 1958 for high-voltage switch 9 gear? 10 A No. I was not in that area at the time. 11 Q Same question then. Do you recall who any of 12 your customers were for the electrical components used in 13 ovens? 14 A During that period of time? 15 Q Between '48 and '58, yes. 16 A No. Not at that time. 17 Q Okay. And have you ever made any effort to 18 determine who any of your customers were, dating back to 19 1948 and '58 time frame, for the high-temperature or 20 high-heat application Bakelite? 21 A No. 22 Q For example, do you know if the U.S. Military 23 was a customer of Union Carbide Bakelite products between 24 '48 and '58? 25 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Ambiguous. 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 THE WITNESS: No, I did not. 2 BY MR. JACKSON: 3 Q Have you made any effort to make the 4 determination of whether they were during that time 5 frame? 6 A No. 7 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 8 BY MR. JACKSON: 9 Q Do you have any information one way or the other 10 of whether Union Carbide Bakelite was on any qualified 11 providers list for the U.S. Government or any branch of 12 the -- military branch of the U.S. Government? 13 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Ambiguous. 14 MS. SAFECHUK: Beyond the agreed-upon scope of 15 this witness's testimony. 16 THE WITNESS: Again, during that period of time? 17 MR. JACKSON: Yes. 18 THE WITNESS: No. 19 BY MR. JACKSON: 20 Q Do you understand what I mean by "qualified 21 provider list"? 22 A Yes. 23 Well, not -- not exactly. Could you explain 24 what you mean by it? 25 Q Sure. 23 24 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo In B. 1 Do you understand that the U.S. Government has 2 issued qualified providers lists for products that can be 3 used by branches of its military for the manufacture and 4 construction of certain products? 5 Do you understand anything about how that system 6 works? 7 A Well, I can explain how the system works from my 8 point of view. 9 We did not sell directly to the government. We 10 obtained approval for the use of our material under 11 certain of their specifications, and once a product was 12 approved for use under -- under that specification, then 13 our customer, the molder, could use our product that had 14 that approval for the part that required it. 15 Q And do you have any information that Union 16 Carbide Bakelite was -- had been approved as a provider 17 of phenolic resins or phenolic molding materials by the 18 U.S. Government at any point between '48 and '58? 19 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Ambiguous. 20 MS. SAFECHUK: Asked and answered. Also, beyond 21 the agreed-upon scope of the witness's testimony. 22 THE WITNESS: I never needed that information, 23 so I never got it. 24 BY MR. JACKSON: 25 Q Do you have any information of whether Union 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 Carbide Bakelite products were used in the construction 2 of missiles or missile guidance or testing equipment 3 between 1948 and 1958? 4 A No, I do not. 5 Q Have you made any attempt to determine whether 6 Union Carbide Bakelite products were used in those 7 applications? 8 A No, I did not. 9 MS. SAFECHUK: Vague. Ambiguous. Beyond the 10 agreed-upon scope of witness's deposition. 11 BY MR. JACKSON: 12 Q Do you have any information of whether Union 13 Carbide Bakelite products were used in the construction 14 of vector boards or circuit boards that were used in 15 conjunction with missile guidance or missile testing 16 equipment? 17 MS. CLARK: Vague. Ambiguous. 18 THE WITNESS: No, I do not. 19 BY MR. JACKSON: 20 Q Have you made any effort to research that 21 subject? 22 A No, I have not. 23 Q Okay. Mr. Martino, in 1959 you said that your 24 position changed somewhat with Union Carbide? 25 A Yes. 25 26 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 Q Can you explain how so? 2 A I became the group manager of a newly formed 3 polymer technical service group. The technical service 4 for all of our plastic products, which included the 5 thermoplastics, as well as the thermosetting products, 6 were placed in one group. 7 Q At that point in time did you also then have 8 direct involvement with the thermosetting products? 9 A I then had responsibility for the technical 10 service provided to customers who bought our phenolic 11 molding materials. 12 Q And how long did you have that position? 13 A One year. 14 Q So until approximately 1960; is that right? 15 A Right. 16 Q And then as of 1960, what was your job title or 17 job description at that point? 18 A Then I became group manager of the Bakelite 19 molding and laminating resins group. 20 Q Okay. And you held that position until 21 approximately 1974; is that right? 22 A That's -- yes. Mid 1974. 23 Q Okay. And in '74 where did you go? What was 24 your new position? 25 A I became senior group manager of the low density 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 polyethylene product development group. 2 Q That's not a Bakelite development group? 3 A It's no longer the Bakelite phenolic type of 4 business, but the polyethylene at that time was being 5 called Bakelite brand polyethylene, and it was a 6 thermoplastic. 7 Q What's your understanding of when Union Carbide 8 stopped making Bakelite phenolic resin or phenolic 9 molding products? 10 A Would you repeat that again, please? 11 Q What's your understanding of when Union Carbide 12 stopped making Bakelite phenolic resin or molding 13 products? 14 A The end of 19 -- well, not resin, but the 15 molding material production was -- the end of that was in 16 1974, the end of 1974. 17 We still made the resin -- resin still. 18 Q All right. And from 1959 to 1974, I take it you 19 had personal knowledge of whether or not the Union 20 Carbide Bakelite formulations contained asbestos? 21 A Yes. 22 Q Did at least some of the formulations contain 23 asbestos up until 1974? 24 A In '7 -- sometime in 1974 our program to remove 25 asbestos from all our formulations was completed. So 27 28 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo In B. 1 sometime in 1974 we reached a point where we were not 2 producing any molding material with asbestos in it. 3 Q So is it correct then that 1974 is the last 4 year, as far as you understood, that the Bakelite 5 formulations contained any asbestos at all? 6 A That is right. 7 Q In terms -- well, just to make sure, from 1959 8 to 1974, did all of the Bakelite formulations contain 9 asbestos as a filler? 10 A No. Absolutely not. 11 Q Is there a way to estimate for me what 12 percentage of the Union Carbide Bakelite formulations 13 contained asbestos between '59 and '74? 14 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Overbroad. 15 THE WITNESS: It was always less than 16 50 percent. The highest was 40 percent, and most of the 17 time it was much less than that, as low as 20 percent, 18 the beginning of that period, and none at the end of that 19 period. 20 BY MR. JACKSON: 21 Q And from that time frame between 1959 to 1974, 22 did the percentage of formulations that contained 23 asbestos increase, decrease, or stay about the same? 24 A They increased up till about 1970, and then 25 decreased rapidly after that. 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 Q Can you explain the reason for the increase? 2 A The increase was because of the beneficial 3 effects of using asbestos in the molding material. We 4 were losing a lot of applications to the thermoplastic 5 business, and the business that was left was the business 6 that thermoplastics couldn't compete in, and that was the 7 higher and higher temperature uses. 8 Q And in the time frame of 1959 to 1974, is there 9 a way to tell me which of the formulations asbestos was 10 used as a filler? 11 A I could tell you some. I don't have -- you 12 know, are you talking about numbers? 13 Q Well, starting with applications. 14 Which applications? 15 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Ambiguous. 16 Overbroad. 17 MS. SAFECHUK: Also, beyond the agreed-upon 18 scope of the witness's testimony. 19 THE WITNESS: The applications were primarily 20 high temperature -- where high temperature was required. 21 Again, oven applications, high-voltage switch gear. 22 BY MR. JACKSON: 23 Q Did Union Carbide ever begin to include asbestos 24 in its filler of the Bakelite for just general purpose 25 Bakelite? 29 30 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Ambiguous. 2 THE WITNESS: For a short period of time, yes. 3 BY MR. JACKSON: 4 Q What was the reason for doing that? 5 A Small percentages gave the product faster cure 6 speed, better surface appearance, a little bit better 7 heat resistance, and that was before we decided to -- and 8 then it -- and that was used for applications that were 9 not -- didn't require quite the high temperatures that 10 the high-asbestos dose materials were used in. 11 Q Was there anything besides asbestos that could 12 be used for those purposes in the general purpose 13 Bakelite? 14 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Ambiguous. 15 MS. SAFECHUK: Also, beyond the agreed-upon 16 scope of the witness's testimony. 17 THE WITNESS: Not to get -- not and get the same 18 benefit. 19 MS. SAFECHUK: You know, Bruce, we've been 20 really generous with the witness's testimony and your 21 questioning beyond the agreed-upon scope of the witness's 22 testimony. 23 Is there any way we can stay focused on the 24 circuit boards that this Plaintiff testified he allegedly 25 worked with? 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 MR. JACKSON: Yeah. That will be part of my 2 questioning, as well. 3 Q All right. So the application for the Bakelite 4 from the time frame from 1959 to 1974 that actually 5 contained asbestos was generally the same as, you said, 6 from the previous time frame, that it would be for the 7 high-heat resistant Bakelite? 8 A Please repeat that. I didn't get it all. 9 Q From the 1959 to 1974 time frame, is it 10 generally true that the applications of Bakelite that 11 contained asbestos would have been the high 12 heat-resistant Bakelite, as you've described earlier? 13 A Yes. But we also had those products where we 14 put in small amounts of asbestos for a short period of 15 time that didn't require as high temperature exposure or 16 were used in applications that weren't exposed to as high 17 temperature. 18 Q Okay. And, generally, for the high-temperature 19 Bakelite from the 1959 to 1974 time frame, do you have 20 information of who the customers were of those products? 21 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Ambiguous. 22 THE WITNESS: I can only remember a few. 23 Square D, Cutler-Hammer, Allen-Bradley. 24 Those are the ones that come to mind. 25 BY MR. JACKSON: 31 32 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo In Barraga n 1 Q Okay. Is it your understanding that Square D, 2 the application was for high-voltage switch gears? 3 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Ambiguous. 4 THE WITNESS: Yes. 5 BY MR. JACKSON: 6 Q How about Cutler-Hammer, the same? 7 A Same. 8 Q Allen-Bradley, the same? 9 A Yeah. They were all in the same business. 10 Q Any other customers that you can think of for 11 Union Carbide Bakelite for the high-voltage switch gear 12 application? 13 A No. 14 Q Any customers that you can think of for the 15 high-temperature electrical component application? 16 MS. CLARK: Objection. Misstates his testimony. 17 Go ahead. 18 THE WITNESS: It would be the same ones, but I'd 19 have to, you know, look into the records to refresh my 20 memory. That's over 30 years ago. 21 BY MR. JACKSON: 22 Q And when was the last time you refreshed your 23 memory by looking at any documents of who the customers 24 were of Union Carbide Bakelite during that time frame, 25 '59 to '74? 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 A In that general way, I never did. It was always 2 specific to certain customers, but never in a general 3 way. 4 Q All right. Do you have any information between 5 1959 and 1974 that Union Carbide Bakelite products were 6 on any qualified providers list of the U.S. Government or 7 branches of the U.S. Military? 8 A Yes. 9 Q And what's your knowledge of that? 10 A We had several formulations that met the -- that 11 received the military approval for certain of their 12 applications. 13 Q Did any of those formulations contain asbestos, 14 to your knowledge? 15 A I don't recall. 16 Q Do you know if any of those formulations were 17 for high-temperature applications? 18 A No, I don't. 19 Q Do you have any information as to which 20 formulations were on any qualified providers list of the 21 U.S. Military between '59 and '74? 22 A I'd have to go to the Bakelite repository for 23 that. 24 Q Do you know if the Union Carbide Bakelite 25 products were on any qualified providers list for 33 34 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 construction of governmentmissiles? 2 A No. 3 Q You don't know one way or the other? 4 A Where the product was used after we met -- got 5 the government approval for it, we didn't know. The 6 molder or the laminator would sell directly to the 7 customer who would be making the missile. We wouldn't 8 know what was being done. 9 Q Did Union Carbide ever perform its own molding 10 for its customers and then provide a molded Bakelite 11 product? 12 MS. SAFECHUK: I'm going to object as beyond the 13 agreed-upon scope of the witness's testimony. 14 THE WITNESS: Would this - 15 MS. SAFECHUK: Vague and ambiguous. 16 THE WITNESS: Would this be for sale to the 17 customer? 18 MR. JACKSON: Yes. 19 THE WITNESS: No. We've never made or sold any 20 finished products. 21 BY MR. JACKSON: 22 Q Okay. So the process would be that Union 23 Carbide would sell the Bakelite product to a customer, 24 who would do their own molding for whatever they were 25 going to make a finished product for? 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 A That's correct. 2 Q Do you have any information that Union Carbide 3 ever sold any Bakelite products directly to the 4 United States Government? 5 A None that I'm aware of. 6 Q Do you have any information one way or the other 7 of whether they ever sold any Bakelite products to 8 McDonnell Douglas or Douglas Aircraft? 9 A Not aware of any sales to them either. 10 Q Do you have any information of whether or not 11 Union Carbide sold any Bakelite products to Ford 12 Aerospace? 13 A No, I don't. 14 Q All right. Do you have any information whether 15 or not any Union Carbide Bakelite products were ever used 16 in the construction of government missilesin the time 17 frame of 1959 to 1974? 18 A No, I don't. 19 Q Do you have any information of whether or not 20 Union Carbide Bakelite products were used in vector 21 boards or circuit boards that were parts of either 22 missiles or missile guidance equipment for government 23 missiles? 24 A No. 25 Q No, they weren't, or no, you don't know one way 35 36 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo In B. 1 or the other? 2 A No, I don't know. 3 Q Have you made any efforts to determine whether 4 or not Union Carbide Bakelite product was ever used in 5 circuit boards or vector boards in construction of 6 government missiles? 7 A Could you repeat that again, please? 8 Q Sure. 9 Have you made any attempt to determine whether 10 or not Union Carbide Bakelite was ever used for 11 construction of circuit boards or vector boards used in 12 conjunction with the assembly of government missiles? 13 A No. I would not know that. 14 Q Have you been provided with any information 15 about my client, Pedro Barragan's work history? 16 A I read the deposition. 17 Q Do you have that deposition available? 18 A I personally don't. 19 Q Do you know which volume or volumes of 20 Mr. Barragan's testimony that you read? 21 MS. CLARK: I can tell you that. 22 It was the trial preservation deposition of 23 September 18, 2006. 24 MR. JACKSON: Okay. Thank you. 25 Q You understand then that Mr. Barragan worked as 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 an engineer during his career for missile testing and 2 guidance equipment? 3 A Yes. 4 Q Okay. And you saw his testimony at some point 5 in his trial preservation where he said that he worked 6 with circuit boards that, in his opinion or in his 7 belief, were made of phenolic Bakelite material? 8 A Yes. 9 Q Do you believe -- or do you have any information 10 that Mr. Barragan is incorrect in that statement? 11 A No. It's my -- my experience has been that 12 circuit boards are made out of a combination of 13 Bakelite -- made out of phenolic resins and paper in 14 laminate form. 15 And to that extent, I think he's correct. 16 Now, whether it was Bake -- calling it Bakelite, 17 that's a generic term. So whether that -- whether or not 18 the components of that laminate came from us or not, that 19 I don't know. 20 Just because it was called Bakelite doesn't mean 21 that our product was in there. 22 Q Okay. Other than him using it as a generic 23 term, or potentially using it as a generic term, is there 24 any other -- anything else about that statement of the 25 circuits boards that he's working on that he believes is 37 38 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 a phenolic Bakelite material where you believe he's 2 mistaken? 3 MS. SAFECHUK: I'll object as vague and 4 ambiguous. 5 THE WITNESS: Well, he didn't define it as a 6 laminate. That's the only thing, he didn't go that far, 7 probably because he didn't know enough about the product, 8 but that it was made from a phenolic, that was a very 9 good possibility. 10 A phenolic resin base, anyway. 11 BY MR. JACKSON: 12 Q And, Mr. Martino, if you were asked to presume 13 that that, in fact, is a Union Carbide Bakelite material 14 that he's referring to, is there any way -- do you have 15 any information to be able to tell me whether or not that 16 would likely have an asbestos filler in it or it would 17 not likely have an asbestos filler in it, or would you 18 just not be able to tell? 19 MS. CLARK: Assumes facts not in evidence. 20 Incomplete hypothetical. 21 Go ahead. 22 THE WITNESS: I would not know whether the 23 phenolic resin that was made -- used to make that 24 laminate came from Union Carbide or from Bakelite. 25 I also would not know what the laminator put 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 into that laminate. We would sell only the resin to that 2 laminator. Resin would not contain asbestos. 3 And based on my knowledge of laminates, the 4 paper-base laminates are one of the most commonly used 5 products to make circuit boards, and to my knowledge, 6 they consist only of paper that's been impregnated with 7 phenolic resin and then cured into large sheets which are 8 later cut into whatever size youneed. 9 But we didn't do that. We don't make laminates. 10 We only sell the resin, and we weren't the only producer 11 of resin. So whether the laminator who made those 12 laminates bought from us or someone else, I wouldn't 13 know. 14 BY MR. JACKSON: 15 Q Okay. On the first part, what you're saying is 16 you have no information one way or the other whether it 17 could be a Bakelite resinmaterial, correct? 18 A That's correct. 19 Q If it turned out that it were a Union Carbide 20 Bakelite material, is it your testimony that you don't 21 believe that that material would include asbestos as a 22 filler? 23 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague and ambiguous as 24 to "that material." 25 THE WITNESS: I couldn't say that because we 39 40 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo In B. 1 didn't make the laminate, so I don't know what the 2 laminate manufacturer put in there. We would have only 3 sold him the resin. 4 The NEMA, National Electrical Manufacturers 5 Association, which classifies all the different laminates 6 only describes those paper-base laminates as being 7 combination of paper and phenolic resin, but there are 8 30 different other -- the total classification the last 9 time I looked at it was around 30 different laminates 10 with all the various, you know, reinforcements. 11 So I -- you know, the laminator would be the 12 person who -- the one who made the laminate would be the 13 person who would know the most about the composition. 14 BY MR. JACKSON: 15 Q And in the 1959 to 1974 time frame, did Union 16 Carbide have any customers that made laminates as you're 17 describing? 18 A Oh, yes. 19 Q Who are those customers? 20 A Wilson Products, Synthane, Formica. 21 There is an example of where the laminate - 22 Formica had sold its products under its own trademark 23 called Formica, but people who used the industrial 24 laminates still refer to it as Bakelite. 25 Q Okay. Any other customers? 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Ba 1 A Westinghouse Micarta Division. There were 2 others, but I don't remember them. 3 Q Is it your testimony that Union Carbide did not 4 sell any Bakelite phenolic molding compound material that 5 contained asbestos in a filler that would have been used 6 in the manufacture of vector boards or circuit boards? 7 A I have never seen a circuit board or vector 8 board made out of a phenolic molding material. 9 Q Do you understand what the difference is in what 10 Mr. Barragan is describing as a circuit board or a vector 11 board and what you have previously described as being a 12 high-voltage switch gear? 13 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Ambiguous. 14 BY MR. JACKSON: 15 Q In your mind, are those two different things? 16 A Absolutely. 17 Q Can you explain how so? 18 A The circuit board and vector board are just flat 19 pieces with the predrilled holes for the metal inserts. 20 Entirely different composition than the high-temperature 21 electrical switch gear. 22 The electrical switch gear is a complex-shaped 23 article that is formed from a granulated product. 24 Entirely different -- you know, entirely different 25 application. 41 42 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in B. 1 Q And explain to me the different application. 2 A Well, for the -- for the circuit board, the 3 phenolic molding material that we made wouldn't have the 4 strength to take the fabrication steps that were 5 described in the deposition. 6 They would not be -- they wouldn't be able -- if 7 you used molding material to make that board, you 8 wouldn't be able to cut it with a paper cutter. Itwould 9 crack. 10 Also, Mr. Barragan described having to use 11 special tools to insert the metal contacts into the 12 laminate. If that was made out of molding materials, it 13 wouldn't take that abuse. 14 Q Did you - 15 A You just don't have -- with the molding 16 materials that we make, you wouldn't have the strength in 17 that -- for the circuit board application that you need. 18 Q Did Union Carbide actually make Bakelite 19 phenolic resin or phenolic molded material that was used 20 in the construction of circuit boards or vector boards? 21 MS. CLARK: Objection. Asked and answered. 22 Vague and ambiguous. 23 THE WITNESS: It made the phenolic resins which 24 we sold to laminators who made the laminates that were 25 used to make circuit boards. 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 BY MR. JACKSON: 2 Q Okay. And those are the names of the companies 3 you previously gave me? 4 A Yes. 5 Q And in terms of the molded phenolic compounds, 6 is it your testimony that Union Carbide never made any 7 molded phenolic compounds used in the manufacture of 8 circuit boards or vector boards? 9 A That's correct. 10 Q Now, in terms of the actual formulations of 11 Bakelite products, the designations for those products 12 weren't determined by what the filler was; is that 13 correct? 14 A No. They did not. 15 Q In other words, is there a way for me to look at 16 the designations of Union Carbide Bakelite products and, 17 from the designations themselves, be able to tell whether 18 or not that contained asbestos as a filler or not? 19 MS. CLARK: Can I just ask, you mean like a 20 product number when you're saying "designation"? 21 BY MR. JACKSON: 22 Q Mr. Martino, do you understand my question? 23 A Yes. 24 MS. SAFECHUK: Vague. Ambiguous. Overbroad. 25 Go ahead. 43 44 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo In Barraga n 1 THE WITNESS: I'm assuming what Kate -- you 2 know, just what Kate said, that you're referring to a 3 product number. 4 Is that correct? 5 MR. JACKSON: That's right. 6 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 7 No. You can't tell from looking at the product 8 designation as to whether it contained asbestos or not. 9 BY MR. JACKSON: 10 Q Okay. And you've been on record of giving 11 certain product numbers in which you understood did 12 contain asbestos as a filler; is that right? 13 A Yes. 14 Q And to give -- maybe help me understand what 15 these numbers mean, for example, one of those product 16 numbers was BMG5020. 17 A Yes. 18 Q Could you just take me through what those mean, 19 starting with the BMG? 20 MS. SAFECHUK: Beyond the agreed-upon scope of 21 the witness's testimony. 22 Go ahead. 23 THE WITNESS: "B" refers to Bakelite, and it 24 means it was made from a phenolic resin or that class of 25 resins and that it is a thermosetting compound. 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 "M" stands for molding. The third letter is 2 whether it's -- what type of granulation it was made in. 3 "G" is granular, and it contained a certain amount of 4 fines. It could also be "M," which means that more fines 5 were removed from the granulation. 6 The fourth letter was meant to designate that it 7 was experimental. There was a BMGA, and that's the first 8 formulation. BMGB would be second. In some cases that 9 fourth letter was never dropped. 10 Then you get to the numbers. "5" means that it 11 was a two-step phenolic resin. That means that you had 12 to add the cross-linking agent to the product when you 13 made it. 14 If it was a "2," it meant it was a two-step 15 resin -- I mean a one-step resin or the cross-linking 16 agent was already on the phenolic resin. 17 And then the rest of the numbers were just to 18 distinguish one product from another. 19 BY MR. JACKSON: 20 Q Okay. And how is it that you're able to 21 determine that the product named BMG5020 actually had 22 asbestos as a filler if there was nothing in that 23 designation that would indicate such? 24 A I'd have to go to the formulation sheets that 25 are in the Bakelite repository. 45 46 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 Q Okay. So -- now, explain that to me. You're 2 saying that for that particular BMG5020, there would be a 3 formulation sheet that would correlate to that particular 4 number, and the formulation sheet is what would tell you 5 whether or not asbestos was a filler or not? 6 A Yes. 7 Q And it's your understanding that those 8 formulation sheets would be maintained in Union Carbide's 9 repository? 10 A Yes. 11 Q Is that something that you have in your 12 possession? 13 A I don't. 14 Q All right. Are you able to tell just from 15 looking at the actual designation BMG5020 what the 16 application of that product is? 17 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Overbroad. 18 THE WITNESS: That was our general purpose, 19 low-asbestos-containing material that we made that we 20 talked about earlier that had faster cure speeds that are 21 apparent, and -- but it was -- the asbestos was removed 22 from that when we started our asbestos-removal program. 23 BY MR. JACKSON: 24 Q In 1974? 25 A No. Theprogram to remove asbestos from our 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 formulations started in -- I believe it was in '72. Some 2 started even in '71. I think it was '71, and then we 3 took the low-asbestos-containing materials first and 4 gradually worked our wayup. 5 Q When you say that that's a general purpose 6 formulation, are yougetting that just from the BMG5020 7 designations or is this from your own memory or 8 knowledge? 9 A From my memory and knowledge. 10 Q So there's nothing about that BMG5020 that 11 indicates what the application of the Bakelite product 12 is? 13 A Well, that's why we called it general purpose, 14 because it could be used for many of the thermoset 15 applications. 16 Q Was it ever used for applications in the use of 17 vector boards or circuit boards, if youknow? 18 A No. 19 Q Would you give me an example of what its 20 applications would be? 21 A Wall receptacles, household switch gear, you 22 know, circuit breaker housing, pot handles, knobs. 23 Q Is there a difference in your mind between the 24 household switch gear or circuit breakers that you just 25 described and the circuit board or vector board that 47 48 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo In B. 1 Mr. Barragan is describing that would lead you to 2 conclude that what he's describing would not contain an 3 asbestos filler? 4 MS. CLARK: Objection. Asked and answered. 5 Vague. Ambiguous. 6 THE WITNESS: They're two entirely different 7 applications. There's no connection. 8 BY MR. JACKSON: 9 Q And other than what you've already stated on the 10 record, can you tell me what those different applications 11 are that lead you to conclude that what Mr. Barragan is 12 describing would not have an asbestos filler in it? 13 MS. CLARK: Objection. Asked and answered. 14 Go ahead. 15 THE WITNESS: When you have an application, you 16 decide what your requirements are. The requirements for 17 the circuit board are entirely different than the 18 requirements for a wall receptacle. 19 A wall receptacle is a contoured part, and it's 20 made so that you don't have to, you know, do any cutting, 21 machining, or drilling. You just put it into place. 22 Its requirements are much different than what a 23 circuit board's requirements are, both electrically and 24 performance-wise. 25 So you -- when you look at an application, you 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in B, 1 have to decide, what do I need to do what the -- meet the 2 end-use requirements and go from there. 3 BY MR. JACKSON: 4 Q Let me just run through a few of the other 5 asbestos-containing compounds. 6 BMG5138. Are you able to tell me what the 7 application of that compound is? 8 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Overbroad. 9 He doesn't have these documents in front of him. 10 MS. SAFECHUK: Lacks foundation. Beyond the 11 agreed-upon scope of the witness's testimony. 12 THE WITNESS: All I can remember about that one 13 was it had a little more asbestos than -5020, but I don't 14 remember specifically who we developed that for without 15 going to the records. 16 BY MR. JACKSON: 17 Q BMG2035? 18 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 19 MS. SAFECHUK: Same objections. 20 THE WITNESS: I think that was developed for 21 wet/dry applications like pump housing, but I'd have to 22 check the records again to, you know, make sure that I'm 23 correct on that. 24 BY MR. JACKSON: 25 Q How about the BMG5033? 49 50 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 2 THE WITNESS: 5033? I don't recall that number 3 at all. 4 BY MR. JACKSON: 5 Q And how about BMG2035? 6 MS. CLARK: Same objections. 7 THE WITNESS: Isn't that one we just talked 8 about, the pump housing? 9 MS. CLARK: Yeah, actually. 10 MR. JACKSON: I'm sorry. I've listed that one 11 twice. 12 Q Mr. Martino, have you actually had any occasion 13 to see who is included on a qualified providers list for 14 the manufacture of circuit boards or vector boards for 15 the U.S. Government? 16 A No. 17 Q Do you know if Union Carbide ever sold or 18 supplied any Bakelite product to a company by the name of 19 Ambitech? 20 A Ambitech, A-m-b-e -21 Q -i-t-e-c-h. 22 A No. 23 Q You don't know one way or the other? 24 A I don't even recognize the company. 25 Q How about a company by the name of Calumet 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 Electronics? 2 A I don't recall any sales to them or having any 3 contact with them. 4 MS. CLARK: Can you spell that, please? I 5 didn't catch the name. 6 MR. JACKSON: C-a-l-u-m-e-t Electronics? 7 MS. CLARK: Okay. Thank you. 8 THE WITNESS: That doesn't ring a bell, but I 9 would have to check Bakelite repository as to whether 10 we -- whether there was any contact with them at all. 11 BY MR. JACKSON: 12 Q How about Coretec, C-o-r-e-t-e-c, Denver? 13 A Don't recall them at all either. 14 Q How about Crown Circuits, Inc.? 15 A No. I don't recall them either. 16 Q Diversified Systems? 17 A No. 18 Q Dynamic and Proto Circuits, Inc.? 19 A No. 20 Q Dynamic Details, Inc.? 21 A No. 22 Q Geometric Circuits, Inc.? 23 A No. 24 Q Lone Star Circuits? 25 A I don't recall that name either. 51 52 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo In Barraga n 1 I'm trying to remember all this. You know, a 2 check of the records would, you know, confirm it. 3 Q Micom Corporation? 4 A No. 5 Q Thilway Products, Inc.? 6 A No. 7 Q And just so I can make sure I understand the 8 nature of your answer, are you saying no, that you didn't 9 do business with them, or no, you don't know? 10 A No, I don't recall having done anything with 11 them in -- from my R&D position. 12 Q And is that how you have been answering the 13 questions as to the previous companies? 14 A Yes. 15 Q Do you know if Union Carbide soldBakelite 16 products to a company by the name of Printed Circuits, 17 Inc.? 18 A No, I do not. 19 Q How about Sovereign Circuits, Inc.? 20 A No, I do not. 21 Q Teradyne? 22 That's T-e-r-a-d-y-n-e. 23 A No, I do not. 24 Q Tyco Printed Circuit Group? 25 A I do not. 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 Q Okay. And as you sit here, is it fair that you 2 have not gone and made an effort to determine what 3 manufacturers that may be listed on a qualified products 4 list for the United States Government or military were 5 ever customers of Union Carbide Bakelite? 6 MS. CLARK: Objection. Vague. Overbroad. 7 Beyond the scope of the deposition and the notice. 8 THE WITNESS: Did I make an effort to determine 9 that? 10 MR. JACKSON: That's right. 11 THE WITNESS: No, I did not. 12 BY MR. JACKSON: 13 Q Well, would you agree that whatever circuit 14 board that Mr. Barragan has identified as working on when 15 he was working in conjunction with missile testing and 16 missile guidance equipment, that circuit board would have 17 been manufactured with products that are listed on the 18 government qualified products list? 19 MS. CLARK: Objection. Foundation. 20 MS. SAFECHUK: It's also vague, ambiguous, 21 overbroad. Beyond the agreed-upon scope of the witness's 22 testimony and may call for speculation. 23 THE WITNESS: The laminate -- there would have 24 been a military designation for that laminate and - 25 which would correspond with the NEMA designation for that 53 54 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 laminate, also. 2 And it's my understanding when the laminate is 3 manufactured, the designation is stamped onto the 4 laminate, and the people using the laminate have to use 5 what the government specified. 6 BY MR. JACKSON: 7 Q And you say NEMA designation. How are you using 8 that term? 9 A Well, NEMA has 30 different -- well, roughly 10 30 different classifications of laminates: Paper-based, 11 linen, canvas, made with phenolic, made with epoxy, so on 12 and so forth. 13 And the government also has the same list for 14 laminates, and the classifications correspond with each 15 other. And during this period of time, the government 16 had its own designation and NEMA had its designation, but 17 the classifications were the same. 18 But you could take the government's spec and 19 find out what the NEMA designation was for that. It's my 20 understanding now they're both the same. 21 But that would -- my understanding of how the 22 system works, once the government decides that it's for a 23 particular application to use a certain NEMA grade, 24 that's what you have to use. 25 MS. CLARK: We've been going about an hour and 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 twenty. We just need a short restroom break here, if 2 that's okay. 3 MR. JACKSON: I actually am about done. 4 MS. CLARK: Oh, really? 5 MR. JACKSON: I'll be done in about five 6 minutes. 7 MS. CLARK: Can you wait, Mr. Martino? 8 THE WITNESS: Sure. 9 MS. CLARK: Okay. 10 BY MR. JACKSON: 11 Q Okay. Mr. Martino, let me just clear this up. 12 I think it's already clear from the stipulation that your 13 counsel has stated on the record, but I want to make sure 14 from you. 15 Before your deposition today, did you make any 16 efforts to search for documents that would be responsive 17 to any document request or custodian of records notice by 18 Mr. Barragan or his attorneys? 19 A No. 20 MS. SAFECHUK: For the record, Mr. Martino is 21 not being produced as a COR. He's here today as a PMK. 22 And, of course, we're working off your 23 December 15, 2006 deposition notice. 24 MS. CLARK: And, also, for the record, you know, 25 like is custom, attorneys gather records and search the 55 56 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo In B. 1 records for responsive documents, and we did that. 2 MR. JACKSON: My question was to Mr. Martino. 3 THE WITNESS: Did I search for any documents? 4 MR. JACKSON: Yes. 5 THE WITNESS: No, I did not. 6 BY MR. JACKSON: 7 Q And have you produced any documents today in 8 response to Mr. Barragan or his attorneys' request for 9 production of documents or custodian of records 10 deposition notice? 11 A No, I did not. 12 MS. SAFECHUK: And you're referring to 13 December 15, 2006 deposition notice; is that correct? 14 MR. JACKSON: I am, Counsel. 15 MS. SAFECHUK: Okay. 16 MR. JACKSON: I don't have any further 17 questioning at this time. I'll pass questioning to any 18 defense counsel. 19 Well, is there any other defense counsel who has 20 questions for Mr. Martino? 21 MS. SAFECHUK: All right. No questions. 22 MR. JACKSON: Yeah. Going, going, gone. 23 Okay. Mr. Martino, thank you for your time. 24 This does conclude your deposition. 25 I will need to get the court reporter's contact 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 information once we go off the record. 2 MS. SAFECHUK: Why don't -- are you going to 3 propose a stipulation? 4 MR. JACKSON: Yeah. 5 The stipulation will be that we can relieve 6 Mr. Martino of his obligation to appear at the court 7 reporter's office to sign his transcript. 8 We can provide the original transcript to his 9 counsel and Union Carbide's counsel, of which designation 10 I'll let you choose. 11 Their counsel will be responsible for getting 12 the transcript to Mr. Martino for review. I think 13 30 days should be a reasonable time for him to review and 14 return it to his counsel, and counsel can return that to 15 the court reporter within 15 days. 16 And we'd also stipulate that if Mr. Martino does 17 not return a signed transcript to the court reporter, 18 that a copy -- a certified copy of the transcript can be 19 used in its place. 20 I think that covers everything we need to say. 21 MS. SAFECHUK: We're going to expedite this 22 transcript, but I guess we can handle that off record. 23 MR. JACKSON: Sure. 24 I was just trying to get the amount of time he 25 needs to review and signature. 57 58 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 MS. SAFECHUK: Stipulated. 2 MR. JACKSON: Okay. 3 (Ending time 9:24 a.m.) 4 (Plaintiffs' Exhibits 1-2 were marked for 5 identification by the certified shorthand reporter.) 6 (Defendants' Exhibits A - B were marked for 7 identification by the certified shorthand reporter.) 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo in Barragan 1 WITNESS'S CERTIFICATE 2 3 I am the Witness in the foregoing deposition. I 4 have read the foregoing deposition and having made such 5 changes and corrections as I desire, I certify that the 6 same is true of my own knowledge, except as to those 7 matters which are therein stated upon my information or 8 belief, and as to those matters, I believe it to be true. 9 I declare under penalty of perjury under the 10 laws of the State of California that the foregoing is 11 true and correct. 12 Executed this day of , 13 20, at, California. 14 15 16 ________________________________________ CARLO MARTINO 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 59 60 3/1/2007 Martino, Carlo In B. 1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 2 3 4 I, JENNIFER J. ANGELOV, CSR No. 12287, a 5 Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of 6 California, do hereby certify: 7 That prior to being examined, the witness named 8 in the foregoing proceedings was by me duly sworn to 9 testify to the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 10 the truth; 11 That said proceedings were taken by me in 12 shorthand at the time and place herein named and was 13 thereafter transcribed into typewriting under my 14 direction, said transcript being a true and correct 15 transcription of my shorthand notes. 16 I further certify that I have no interest in the 17 outcome of this action. 18 19 Dated:. 20 21 22 23 JENNIFER J. ANGELOV 24 CSR No. 12287 25 61