Document 2RVmorddrDDyvgxZ2JX2J2Dn5

I V Strictly Confidential CONFERENCE REPORT Place: E sso R esearch & Engineering C o ., Linden New J e rs e y Date: D ecem ber 1. 1959 In Conference: John G. McNab, Neil Hakala, George Tobias, T. M. Korn, Stewart Hulse, H. J . Gibson Esso Res. & Engineering (t It It I I 11 II t! It It It It It Ethyl Corporation This v isit to Linden was made at the specific req u est of M r. Hakala who indicated that they did not wish to wait another week to discuss TML with a representative of the Ethyl Corporation. (Mr. Remondino had agreed to be at Linden on Decem ber 8 or 9. ) A pproxim ately two hours w ere spent in answ ering questions rela tiv e to TML. The w rite r is of the opinion that not very much new inform ation was given to them, but the answ ers which I gave them serv ed to confirm the im p ressio n s which a number of the people p resen t had relative to the use of TML. At the s ta rt of the meeting M r. Hakala indicated that Esso was interested in three m ajor areas. These areas w ere--toxicity studies, effectiveness, and cost. The m ajor portion of the tim e was spent in discussion of toxicity problems although a considerable period of time was devoted to discussion of cost. R elatively little time was spent on effectiveness since I pointed out early in the discussion that we did not have very much new in the way of effectiveness data. I did suggest to them that if they wished to look at the effectiveness of TML in dom estic fuels, they might concentrate th e ir studies on fuels that w ere relativ ely high in arom atic content, although they should include a few fuels of lower arom atic content for com parison. They asked whether we had yet conducted work in any of the "Big T h ree" sm all c a rs since they have data which give them reason to believe that the C orvair with a standard tran sm issio n will severely downrate fuels a t low engine speeds. As in our own case, they suspect that the V aliant may do likew ise, and that certain of the C hrysler engines with the Ram manifold will also downrate fuels which do not contain volatile antiknocks. Those E sso people who sat in the meeting with M e s srs . Scales, Kehoe and Remondino in the e arly spring ju s t could not understand how D r. Kehoe could have done such an about-face. I pointed out that I was not free to give them the details of the toxicity p ro g ram which had been c a rrie d out with an un named customer company under a rigid secrecy agreem ent, but that there was no question of the validity of the data. They inquired as to w hether they should Tindertake a toxicity program , and I told them that th ere would seem to be no reaso n for them to w aste th e ir money by carry in g out such a p rogram . HE 0002961 CONFERENCE REPORT Page 2. A g reat deal of time was spent answering their inquiries as to the technique for obtaining approval of the use of TML from the office of the Surgeon G eneral. It was pointed out to them that th e re w ere two possible ways of handling the m a tte r--th a t is , the fashion in which the 4th m illilite r was handled, and the fashion in which AK-33X was handled. I told them that I could not tell them, and did not know, anything about the timing of possible presentations to the Surgeon G en eral's office. I also told them that we would expect to notify them and the other people who had inquired about the use of TML as soon as som e action was taken in this a re a . It was evident from much of the conversation that E sso 's principal in terest is in the use of TML offshore. They inquired as to the ability of A ssociated and other TEL m anufacturers to make and supply TML, and w ere p a rtic u la rly in te re ste d in knowing what steps would be req u ired for E sso to obtain approval of im portation and use of TML in European countries. I told them that Dr. Kehoe had indicated that the firs t and probably the m ost im portant step in this a re a would be obtaining approval for use in the United States. However, I told them that I would ask Dr. Kehoe to tran sm it to them, probably through Dr. Eckardt, any comments he might have as to the steps that would be n e c e ssa ry to p erm it the use of TML abroad. (It should be pointed out that the E sso R & E people re a liz e that they can obtain such inform ation by inquiries to th eir Marketing and M anufacturing su b sid iaries abroad. They do not, however, wish to s tir up in te re st by making such inquiries. T herefore, they would be m ost pleased to have any inform ation that Dr. Kehoe can supply and will, I am sure, inquire of D r. E ckardt as to what inform ation he has in this a re a . ) They inquired as to our ability to supply, and I told them that we would be able to supply any quantity they might req u ire provided only that we have a reasonable m ak e-read y period. When asked how long this might be, I told them that I thought that a period of th re e to six months would be rea listic , although the dislocation of steel supply resulting from the strike might possibly lengthen such a period. They were very much interested to know that we had solved our m anufacturing problem s and w ere in a p o si tion to say that we could supply in unlim ited q u an tities. They wanted to know whether I knew of any restrictio n s which would prevent th eir use of TML (other than medical) in European countries. They were particularly interested in this situation insofar as Italy was concerned. I told them that it was my im pression that it would be difficult to im port TML into Italy, but that I would ask Julian F re y to give them a b rie f rundown b ased on whatever background he might have on im port re stric tio n s in European . countries. Here again, the Esso R & E people realize that this inform a tion could be made available by th e ir affiliates abroad, but they do not wish to s tir up undue in te re s t. M essrs. McNab and Hakala said there was no doubt in their minds that the availability of TML abroad would have a m ajor im pact on refinery process planning since if TML were available, catalytic cracking would not be < CONFERENCE REPORT Page 3. required for a long time to come. They were very much in terested in possible cost of the compound, and I quoted them the figure of 25% plus o r minus 5% which had been ag reed upon and used elsew here. Special pains w ere taken to point out to the E sso people that this was on the b asis of contained m etal which would r e s u lt in a p rice p er pound of TML of about 91 cents*if the prem ium w ere 25%. They asked w hether, longrange, there was a possibility that this price differential might be reduced. I told them that this seem ed quite likely although I could not so prom ise since it was very early in our know-how insofar as manufac tu re of TML was concerned, and that we would expect that we would be able to make process im provements which might reduce our costs. I asked them whether they thought they could buy TML from us and pay for it for use abroad. M r. McNab said it was his im pression that the European common m arket had considerably simplified currency problems insofar as E sso was concerned, and that he would anticipate no very significant problem s in this re s p e c t. He wanted to know w hether, if a m arket for TML developed in Europe, Ethyl would be in terested in manu facturing abroad. I told him that such would be given serious consideration if a sufficient m arket should develop. To sum m arize, I came away from this m eeting with the im pression that Esso has very little in terest in TML for domestic use, but that they probably will c a rry out a program of sm all size. I thijik they have no very re a l concern about durability problem s which TML m ight introduce which do not already exist with TEL, but that they might wish to c a rry out a sm all program . Our help in this are a was volunteered. However, they seem m ost receptive to our thinking that th e re will be no difference in the products of combustion of TML and TEL. They have a very high in terest in the use of TML abroad because it seem s to them a way to save on capital expenditures for refinery pro cess equipment as well as keeping the split in the petroleum b a rre l in b etter balance with demand. A number of other item s w ere d iscussed in a m ore or le ss casual fashion. I asked Mr. Hakala what they could te ll us about the C urtiss-W right engine since we understood that they had been consulting with C u rtiss-W right on fuel and lubricant problem s. Mr. Hakala indicated that they had a rigid secrecy agreem ent with C-W and that they could te ll us nothing that has not already appeared in the public p r e s s . M r. McNab was in te re ste d in the general acceptance of the 4th m illilite r of TEL and both he and M r. Hakala indicated concern about the re stric tio n (as they in te rp re t it) which had been placed on the rate of in c re a se in TEL concentration. I a s s u re d them that the quoted 0. 25 m illilite r p er y ear in c re a se applied to the United States pool and not to the products of any p a rtic u la r re fin e r, and that based on our economic studies, it was quite unlikely that this rate would be exceeded. They w ere also in te re ste d in our m arketing experience with Motor 33 Mix and the opportunity was taken to em phasize to them that Motor 33 Mix was indeed attractive in certain refining situations. They expect M r. Remondino to * Motor Mix CONFERENCE REPORT Page 4. make available to them our re p o rts on Motor 33 Mix in the n ear future. There continues to be considerable in terest in E sso relative to new types of power plants. B rief conversation was had with Mr. Korn relative to the A llis-C halm ers fuel cell tra c to r. It is obvious that th ere is a con siderable in terest in the Esso organization in the possibilities of electric automobiles powered by conventional b atteries, and the possibility of fuel cell powered vehicles. The Esso people were asked for whatever data they m ight be fre e to give us rela tiv e to the fuel economy of the sm all M ercedes diesel-pow ered automobile which they had on the property for two or th ree y e a rs some y e a rs ago. They indicated that they had some tank economy data which would be available to us, and that their people a t Abbington, England, had done a considerable amount of fuel economy work and they believed that that inform ation would be available to us also. It can be expected that this will be transm itted to us through Mr. Remondino or the w riter in the reasonably near future. H JG /dl Copies to: H. E . H esselberg R. Herzog R. A. Kehoe M. P. Murdock M. A. Remondino (3) R. K. Scales KE 0002864