Document 2RBxqDLyE13QNv5r5QgQoNyXb

FILE NAME: Anchor Packing (AP) DATE: 1994 Dec 7 DOC#: AP002 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Legal - Deposition of John D. Call NO. 94-01-497-E GWENDA MCDONALD, INDIVIDUALLY IN THE DISTRICT COURT AND AS REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ESTATE OF NORMAN MCDONALD VS CAMERON COUNTY, TEXAS UNION PACIFIC RAILROAD COMPANY IND. AND F/D/B/A MISSOURI PACIFIC RAILROAD C O ., ET A L . 357TH JUDICIAL DISTRICT ' RECEIVED DEC 1 2 1994 DEPOSITION OF JOHN D. CALL COPY D e c e m b e r 7, 1994 Houston, Texas REPORTED BY: Lois Fields H ouston 7715 W estview Houston, T exas 77055-5099 713/461-3804 Fax 7 682-8528 Ca r o l Davis Reporting Records &V ideo, Inc. A ustin O ne American C enter 600 Congress, Suite C250 Austin, T exas 78701 -3234 512/474-4163 Fa x 7 474-4166 San A ntonio O ne In' ernational C entre 100 N.E. Loop 410, Suite 1103 San Antonio, T exas 78216-4750 210/979-6545 Fax 7979-8673 Houston * Austin * San Antonio * Dallas * 8 0 0 / 753-Depo JOH N D. CALL 12/7/94 1 APPEARANCES : 2 3 COUNSEL FOR PLAINTIFF: 4 Mr. G r e g o r y D. M o r r i s o n Cook & Butler 5 1221 Lamar, Suite 1300 Houston, Texas 77010 6 7 COUNSEL FOR DEFENDANTS FIBREBOARD 8 CORPORATION AND NORTH AMERICAN REFRACTORIES COMPANY: 9 Ms. G w e n d o l y n S. Frost 10 Powers & Frost 24 G r e e n w a y Plaza, Suite 2020 11 Houston, Texas 77046 12 13 COUNSEL FOR DEFENDANT JOHN CRANE, INC.: 14 Ms. A n n L. B u r k e y Law O f f i c e s of W i l l i a m M. Koz i o l 15 1 Kemper Drive Long Grove, Illinois 60049 16 17 COUNSEL FOR DEFENDANT A C & S : 18 Ms. Sarajane Milligan 19 Dunn, Kacal, Adams, Pappas & Law 2929 Allen Parkway, Suite 2600 2 0 Houston, Texas 77019 2 1 22 COUNSEL FOR DEFENDANTS GARLOCK AND ANCHOR PACKING: 23 Mr. W i l l i a m F. M a h o n e y 24 Segal, McCambridge, Singer & Mahoney 20 S. Clark, Suite 700 2 5 Chicago, Illinois 60603 3 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 And 2 Ms. Melissa Ferrell 3 Brown McCarroll & Oaks Hartline 2727 Allen Parkway, Suite 1300 4 Houston, Texas 77019 5 6 ALSO PRESENT: 7 Mr. Tim Hennessy 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL 12/7/94 1 2 3 INDEX 4 5 EXAMINAT ON BY MR . MORRISON 6 EXAMINAT ON BY MR . MAHONEY 7 PAGE NO. 7 1 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 0 21 22 23 24 2 5 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 2 EXHIBIT INDEX 3 CALL 4 EX NO . DESCRIPTION PAGE NO. 5 1 Deposition Notice 88 6 2 Employment History 5 7 3 Warning Label 93 8 4 - Warning Label 93 9 5 Warning Label 93 10 6 Catalog 114 11 7 Catalog 114 12 8 Trademark Registration, Ankotallic 127 13 9 Trademark Registration, Anklon 127 14 10 Vy-Flex Label 143 15 11 Anklon Label 144 16 12 Target Label 14 6 17 13 Anchor Packing Can 14 7 18 14 Warning Label 148 19 15 Amflex Packings Label 14 8 20 16 Ankotallic Label 14 8 21 17 Ring Packing Label 14 8 22 18 Product List 157 23 19 MSDS Sheets 157 24 2 0 Letter dated 11/19/75 157 25 21 Letter dated 2/2/76 157 i i CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 22 Letter from Flextallic Gasket 2 Company- 167 3 23 Original Label 167 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 0 21 22 23 24 2 5 i i i CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ________ JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94________________ 1 (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit Number 2 2 was marked for identification 3 by the reporter.) 4 5 MR. MORRISON: Let's do 6 appearances for the record. My name 7 is Greg M o r r i s o n w i t h the firm of 8 Cook & Butler, and I represent the 9 plaintiff, Gwenda McDonald. 10 MR. MAHONEY: My name is 11 William Mahoney from Segal, 12 McCambridge, Singer & Mahoney in 13 Chicago, Illinois, and I am here on 14 behalf of The Anchor Packing Company 15 and Garlock, Inc. 16 MS. B U R K E Y : Ann Burkey for 17 John Crane, Inc. 18 MS. FROST: Gwen Frost for 19 Fibreboard Corporation and North 20 American Refractories. 2 1 MR. MORRISON: And again, 22 just for the record, Mr. Tim 23 H e n n e s s y is here in what c a p a c i t y 24 today? 25 MR. MAHONEY: Tim is an 5 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 employee and attorney for Coltech 2 Industries. He has not filed an 3 appearance in the case and will not 4 be a fact witness in the case. He's 5 here as an observer. 6 MR. MORRISON: W ith that 7 representation, as yesterday, we 8 have no objection to him sitting in 9 on the depo then. 10 THE REPORTER: Same 11 st ipulat ions ? 12 MR. MORRISON: Yes, by the 13 rules, all objections except as to 14 form and responsiveness are reserved 15 until the time of trial. Do you all 16 want to sign again? 17 MR. MAHONEY: Yes, we are 18 going to reserve signature again. 19 MR. MORRISON: And as 2 0 yesterday, if there is some ne e d for 21 this deposition in the meantime, 22 p r i o r to the time that we get it 23 back, an unsigned copy may be used 24 for p u r p o s e s of a hearing, or if the 2 5 d e p o s i t i o n is not r e t u r n e d in the 6 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 statutorily allowed time, then an 2 u n s i g n e d copy may be used at time of 3 trial. 4 MR. MAHONEY: So stipulated. 5 T h a t 's fine. 6 7 8 J O H N D. CALL, 9 ha v i n g been first duly sworn, t e s t i f i e d as 10 follows: 11 12 EXAMINATION 13 14 BY MR. MORRISON: 15 Q Mr. Call, w o u l d you state y o u r full name for 16 the record, please? 17 A Joh n D . C a l l . 18 Q M r . Call - - 19 A C-A-L-L. 20 q 21 22 23 24 2 5 Thank you. My name is Greg Morrison. A n d as I indicated earlier, I'm with the firm of Cook Sc Butler, and I r e p r e s e n t the p l a i n t i f f , Gwenda McDonald. You understand that Ms. McDonald has filed a personal injury lawsuit in which she has alleged that the 7 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 death of her husband, Norman McDonald, was 2 caused by his exposure to asbestos -containing 3 products ? 4 A Yes . 5 Q And you understand that one of the products 6 that he was exposed to by his own deposition 7 or his own allegation was products sold by The 8 Anchor Packing Company? 9 A Yes . 10 Q And you have been designated here, as I 11 u n d e r s t a n d it today, as a c o r p o r a t e 12 r e p r e s entative of The A n chor Packing Company? 13 A T h a t ' s correct. 14 MR. MAHONEY: Let me make a 15 statement in that regard. Mr. Call 16 is b e i n g p r o d u c e d t o d a y p u r s u a n t to 17 plaintiff's notice of intent to take 18 the deposition of corporate 19 r epresen t a t i v e or r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s of 2 0 The Anchor Packing Company. I would 2 1 like the record to show that 22 Mr. Call is b e i n g p r o d u c e d to that 23 notice, but that several things 24 should be clearly stated on the 25 record. 8 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ________ JOHN D. CALL - 12/7/94_________ 1 Number one, that The Anchor 2 Packing Company ceased business 3 operations in October of 1993. The 4 c o n s e q u e n c e of that c e s s a t i o n of 5 operations, The Anchor Packing 6 Company has not done business in any 7 form or capacity since October of 8 1993. The Anchor Packing Company 9 has had no employees since October 10 of 1993. The Anchor Packing Company 11 has no office since October of 12 1993 . 13 Therefore, Mr. Call is b e ing 14 produced today in good faith by 15 Anchor Packing Company on the 16 following basis. Mr. Call was 17 employed by The Anchor Packing 18 Company in a variety of capacities 19 from 1967 through October of 1993. 20 And he has been identified as the 21 i n d i v i d u a l who is best able to 22 respond to the items identified in 23 plaintiff's notice. And plaintiff, 24 I'm sure, will explore, you know, 25 his background. 9 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 In p r o d u c i n g him as our 2 corporate representative, we want to 3 make clear that Mr. Call may not be 4 competent to t estify in all areas of 5 the subpoena, but that s i m p l y he is 6 the best person available at the 7 present time, in view of Anchor's 8 overall situation to give the best 9 good faith responses to the areas 10 identified in the subpoena. And I 11 can clearly state on the record, 12 similar to what I did for 13 Mr. Whittaker yesterday, that 14 Mr. Call is not c o m p e t e n t to t e s t i f y 15 on net worth, but that d o c u m e n t s as 16 required under Texas law regarding 17 the issue of net worth will be 18 produced. 19 I can also represent that 2 0 A n c h o r P a c k i n g C o m p a n y is -- will 21 respond fully to plaintiff's request 22 for production and interrogatories. 23 A response has been filed. We 24 received a letter two days ago from 25 the plaintiff with respect to 10 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, I N C . JOHN D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 outstanding discovery issues, and 2 those responses will be made and be 3 forthcoming, separate and distinct 4 from the deposition. 5 I also want to make clear as 6 to what is b e i n g p r o d u c e d t o d a y in 7 response to the notice right off the 8 bat. Mr. Call has been deposed on 9 four prior occasions. And we have 10 provided plaintiff today with the 11 following depositions with attached 12 exhibits from those depositions: A 13 deposition from June 13th, 1985 14 taken in the Unit e d States District 15 Court of Massachusetts; a deposition 16 taken on September 11th, 1992, State 17 Court in North Dakota; a deposition 18 taken on October 19th, 1993 from 19 Baltimore City; and a deposition 2 0 from June 25th, 1993 taken from a 21 case pending in Jackson County, 22 Mississippi. All of those cases 23 involved allegations of personal 24 injury or wrongful death related to 25 alleged exposure to asbestos 11 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ________ JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94_________ 1 products. 2 Having said that, proceed. 3 MR. MORRISON: I'll tell you 4 what, Bill. While we're on that, 5 why don't we go ahead and just - 6 where's the stack of exhibits, other 7 than the depositions? 8 MR. MAHONEY: Okay. 9 MR. MORRISON: What you've 10 indicated to me and I think what you 11 just stated for the re c o r d is you 12 produced those four depos, plus any 13 and all attachments to those 14 depositions? 15 MR. MAHONEY: Right. 16 MR. MORRISON: As they 17 appeared in your copy of the 18 deposition? 19 MR. MAHONEY: Correct. 20 MR. MORRISON: In ad d i t i o n to 21 that, Anchor has produced, in 22 response to the subpoena duces 23 t e c u m -- and I'm g o i n g to use 24 Anchor's Bates stamp numbers - 25 Exhibit 0024, w h ich is the 12 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOHN D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 employment history of Mr. Call; 2 documents 0609 through 0613, which 3 is a list of a s b e s t o s -c o n t a i n i n g 4 products sold and/or distributed by 5 Anchor Packing Company; document 6 0614 t h rough 0639, w h i c h is an MSDS 7 sheet for a compressed asbestos 8 sheet, or multiple sheets; A0020, 9 which appears to be Anchor Packing 10 correspondence dated November 19th, 11 1975; document A0021, Anchor Packing 12 correspondence or memo dated 13 F e b r u a r y 2, 1976; and three 14 photocop i e s of caution labels, 15 n u m b e r 0025, 26, and 27. 16 Can we agree that that's the 17 extent of what was p r o duced today in 18 r e s p o n s e -- and there m a y be some 19 catalogs. 2 0 MR. MAHONEY: Forthcoming, 21 exactly. 22 MR. MORRISON: And we will 23 indicate those on the record. But 24 at this point, that's what's been 25 p r o d u c e d at the d e p o s i t i o n today in 13 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ___________________ JOHN D. CALL - 12/7/94_______________ 1 response to the subpoena duces 2 tecum? 3 MR. MAHONEY: That's correct. 4 MR. MORRISON: Okay. 5Q (By Mr. Morrison) Mr. Call, counsel has 6 indicated that you have been deposed on four 7 p r i o r o ccasions; is that correct? 8 A That's correct. 9 Q You have not been deposed any other times, 10 other than those four, in as be sto s-related 11 lit igat ion? 12 A N o , I have n o t . 13 Q Hav e you ever bee n c a l l e d u p o n to t e s t i f y live 14 at trial? 15 A Yes . 16 Q On how m a n y o c c a s i o n s ? 17 A O n c e . 18 Q A n d do you r e m e m b e r what case or at least what 19 city that was in? 2 0 A That was in Philadelphia. 21 Q W o u l d that have been a case in w h i c h you also 22 gave a deposition here? 23 A No . 24 Q Okay. Was that a single p l a i n t i f f or a g r o u p 25 of plaintiffs ? . 14 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOHN D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 A I believe that was a single plaintiff. 2 Q Okay. And do you recall the name of that 3 plaintiff? 4A I do n o t . 5 Q Do you recall what year that was, 6 approximately? 7 A That was last week. 8 Q Do you remember the name of the plaintiff's 9 attorney who cross-examined you? 10 A N o . 11 Q F r o m the d e p o s i t i o n s that you have g i v e n and 12 the trial testimony, I take it y o u ' r e f a m i l i a r 13 w i t h what a d e p o s i t i o n is and what we're doing 14 here today? 15 A Y e s , I a m . 16 Q You understand that the oath that you have 17 t a ken here today is the same oath that you 18 w o u l d have tak e n if we were in the court of 19 law today starting this trial? 20 A Yes . 21 Q That you are subject to the same p e n a l t i e s of 22 p e r j u r y as you w o u l d be were we in a court of 23 law? 24 A Yes . 25 Q Mr. Call, if at any time d u r i n g the 15 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOHN D . CALL - 12/7/94 1 d e p o s i t i o n -- I just want to make sure I'm 2 sure yo u kno w this -- you want to take a 3 break, just let me know or your counsel know 4 and we'll make sure you get that. I have 5 never been in the asbestos m an ufacturing 6 business or the manufacturing business of any 7 sort, so I may ask questions that just don't 8 make any sense. If I do that, w o u l d you stop 9 me and let me know that my lack of knowledge 10 or just the way that I stated it just doesn't 11 make sense to you so I can make sure that we 12 are communicating? 13 A All r i g h t . 14 Q If yo u would, c o n t i n u e to give v e r b a l 15 responses for me and wait until I finish my 16 question, and I'll try to wait until you 17 finish your answer, okay? 18 A Okay. 19 Q W h e n did you first start w i t h The A n c h o r 2 0 Packing Company? 21 A J a n u a r y of 1967. 22 Q And what was the official name of the company 23 when you started with it? 24 A The A n c h o r P a c k i n g Company. 25 Q Has it u n d e r g o n e any name c h a n g e s from that 16 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOHN D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 time until October of 1939? 2 A N o , it has n o t . 3 Q My u n d e r s t a n d i n g is that in O c t o b e r of 1993, 4 The Anchor Packing Company ceased to do 5 business; is that correct? 6 A That is correct. 7 Q They are still listed as a corporation in some 8 state of the U n i t e d States, I take it, do you 9 know? 10 A I'm not aware of that. 11 Q Do you k n o w what state The A n c h o r P a c k i n g 12 C o m p a n y is i n c o r p o r a t e d in? 13 A D e l a w a r e . 14 Q Is there also a "The A n c h o r P a c k i n g Company, 15 Incorporated" in the state of New Jersey, do 16 you know? 17 A N o . 18 Q Are you aware of any m e r g e r w h i c h might have 19 taken place in 1984 between two different 2 0 Anchor Packing companies? 2 1 A No . 22 Q As a part of you r job p r i o r to O c t o b e r of 23 1993, did you assist persons, including 24 possibly counsel, in preparing written 25 discovery answers on behalf of The Anchor 17 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOHN D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 Packing Company? 2 A On what date? 3 Q When you ceased doing business - 4 A Oh, yes. 5 Q -- in O c t o b e r of 1993. 6 A Yes . 7 Q Do you kn o w if you a s s i s t e d in this p a r t i c u l a r 8 case in preparing written discovery answers 9 with Ms. Hermese when she originally 10 represented The Anchor Packing Company? 11 A I b e l i e v e so. 12 Q W h e n y ou h e l p e d p r e p a r e those d i s c o v e r y 13 responses, did you respond on behalf of The 14 Anchor Packing Company that you had worked 15 with from '67 until the time that you helped 16 prepare those responses? 17 A Y e s , I d i d . 18 Q Do you have k n o w l e d g e or have you seen 19 documents that would tell you when The Anchor 20 P a c k i n g C o m p a n y was first begun, w h e n it 21 became a company? 22 A Yes. I was aware that the company was 23 started in 1908 in Philadelphia by the Adams 24 fa m i l y . 25 Q A nd p r i m a r i l y was a family b u siness? 18 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 A That is correct. 2 Q Do you have any k n o w l e d g e of, in 1911, a n o t h e r 3 Anchor Packing Company being formed in New 4 Jersey? 5 A N o , I d o n 't . 6 MR. MORRISON: Can we go off 7 the record for a minute? 8 (Discussion off the record.) 9 MR. MORRISON: Back on. 10 Q (By Mr. Morrison) My u n d e r standing, Mr. Call, 11 is that during the time that you have been 12 with The Anch o r Packing Company from '67 to 13 1993, you were never aware of any other 14 company bearing the name, The Anchor Packing 15 Company? 16 A T h a t ' s correct. ' 17 Q Mr. Call, you have been kind en o u g h to p r o v i d e 18 us with a copy of a document which gives us 19 y o u r e m p l o y m e n t history. If I n e e d to share 20 this w i t h you, I'll be gl a d to. I've a t t a c h e d 21 that t o d a y as Call E x h i b i t N u m b e r 2. A n d I 22 want to go t h r o u g h that. As I'm r e a d i n g it, 23 it indicates that from 1967 t h r o u g h 1993, you 24 have been employed by The Anchor Packing 25 Company of Philadelphia and Gr e e n s b o r o as a 19 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOHN D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 s a l e s m a n and as a district manager; is that 2 correct ? 3 A That is correct. 4 Q As a salesman, which your employment history 5 states you w o r k e d as from '67 to '74 in the 6 Buffalo, New York territory, what, as a 7 salesman, would you have done for The Anchor 8 Packing Company? 9 A I traveled Upstate New York calling on The 10 Anchor Packing Company's customers and 11 developed sales. 12 Q What types of businesses would you 13 characterize as being those w h ich were Anc h o r 14 Packing customers in your territory? 15 A C o m m e r c i a l i n d u s t r i a l accounts. 16 Q Did tho s e a c c o u n t s incl u d e s h i p y a r d s ? 17 A Yes . 18 Q. Did the y include oil r e f i n e r i e s ? 19 A Not in my t erritory. There were none. 20 Q Did they include any of the railroads in your 2 1 territory? 22 A Yes . 23 Q Do you recall what railroads that would have 24 been in your territory? 25 A Not specifically. 20 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 Q And as I say that, sir, I see that you have 2 changed territories some during your time. 3 But at any time that you have been with 4 Anchor, do you recall any of the railroads 5 that you personally have dealt with to sell 6 products or deal with in a sales type 7 relationship? 8 A Specifically, the railroad at Bethlehem Steel 9 in Lackawanna, New York. 10 Q Do you recall any dealings with Union Pacific 11 Railroad? 12 A No. 13 Q I'm not sure they did b u s i n e s s this way, but 14 I'll ask, Missouri Pacific? 15 A N o . 16 Q H o w about B u r l i n g t o n ? 17 A N o . 18 Q H o w did you, as a salesman, mak e a 19 determination on whom you would make sales 20 calls? 21 A When I took over the territory, there was a 22 sales listing of the customers. And I w o uld 23 call on those customers, plus develop other 24 accounts through leads with contacts and just 25 making cold calls. 21 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 Q A n d I take it that you kn e w from the p r o d u c t s 2 that you were selling the general type of 3 company that would be most profitable for you 4 to call upon? 5 A Yes, that's correct. 6 Q And generally, what was the product line that 7 you were selling in '67? 8 A Packing, gaskets, molded rubber goods, 9 hydraulic seals; generally anything that the 10 customer required for maintenance of his 11 equipment. 12 Q And what kind of equipment would you generally 13 be supplying parts for? 14 A Pumps, valves, hig h p r e s s u r e presses, m a t e r i a l 15 or equipment handling chemicals, water, steam, 16 o il. 17 Q W o u l d it include b o i l e r s ? 18 A Boilers. 19 Q T u r b i n e s ? 2 0 A That's correct. 2 1 Q Refractories? 2 2 A Yes, there was a refractory. 23 Q When you started in 1967, did the product line 24 which you were selling also include asbestos 2 5 gloves ? 22 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. __ _______________ JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94___________ 1 A No . 2 Q Asbestos mits? 3 A No . 4 Q Hoses? 5 A Rubber hose. 6 Q Heat-holding tapes? 7 A Yes . 8 Q Insulating tapes of other types? 9 A No . 10 Q Brake linings? 11 A Yes . 12 Q Clutch facings? 13 A Yes . 14 Q Asbestos wick? 15 A Yes . 16 Q A n d a s b e s t o s rope? 17 A Yes . 18 Q Do you k n o w if any of the p r o d u c t s that you 19 just mentioned that you did sell in 1967 were 2 0 not sold in the '50's, that they were new 21 products after the '50's? 22 A I believe that they were standard product 23 line . 24 Q Of the products that you have just indicated 25 to me that you did sell in '67, were there any 23 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 Q 16 17 18 19 20 2 1 22 A 23 Q 24 A 25 Q JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 of those, other than the hoses that you indicated were rubber, that did not contain asbestos ? MR. MAHONEY: I'm going to object to the form to the extent that it a s sumes all g a s k e t s and all packings may have contained asbestos. If y o u ' r e a s k i n g him if some of them may have or the category included asbestos, that's -- MR. MORRISON: I don't think we talked about gaskets. MR. MAHONEY: Okay. (By Mr. Morrison) You p r o b a b l y did m e n t i o n e d it, in fairness, and I mea n t to get the o t h e r things that you sell. But let's start out that way. Wh e n you s t a r t e d in '67, the packings that you were selling included lines which contained asbestos and which didn't c o n t a i n asbestos; is that correct? That's correct. That was also true of the 1950's? That is correct. The gasket lines that you were selling 2 4 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ____________________ JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94___________ __ 1 included some gaskets that contained asbestos 2 and some that did not, correct? 3 A That is r i g h t . 4 Q And that was also true of the Anchor Packing 5 gaskets sold in the '50's? 6 A That's correct. 7 Q You indicated that you did not have in the 8 line of items that you were selling asbestos 9 g l o v e s or mits; is that correct? 10 A T h a t 's r i g h t . 11 Q Were you aware that those were sold at any 12 time by The Anchor Packing Company? 13 A N o , I was n o t . 14 Q What is the best w ay to find out from The 15 Anchor Packing Company what products were sold 16 in a given year? 17 MR . MAHONEY: Today? 18 MR . MORRISON: Yes . 19 MR . MAHONEY: You c a n 't . 2 0 (By Mr. Morrison) I mean, if we look at 21 catalog -- you would agree with me that 22 catalog from 1942, for example, shows a 23 product, that Anchor was trying to sell that 24 product in 1942, wouldn't you? 2 5 A That w o u l d i n d i c a t e so. CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, R E C ORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 Q You indicated that you sold some heat-holding 2 tape. Was that an asbestos -containing 3 products ? 4 A Y e s , it w a s . 5 Q And was also an asbestos -c o n t aining product in 6 the '50's that was sold by Anchor? 7 A I w o u l d assu m e so. 8 Q I can't remember now what your answer was on 9 brake linings. Were you selling those in the 10 ' 6 0 ' s? 11 A Yes . 12 Q A n d those were a s b e s t o s - c o n t a i n i n g ; is that 13 correct ? 14 A Yes . 15 Q A n d w o u l d those also have been 16 asbestos -containing in the '50's sold by 17 Anchor ? 18 A Yes . 19 Q Wha t k i n d of bra k e l i n i n g s wer e yo u s e l l i n g ? 2 0 Were th e y a u t o m o b i l e ? Or was it a full line 2 1 of brake linings? 22 A No, it was i n d u s t r i a l b r a k e l i n i n g s for use on 23 large equipment. 24 Q W o u l d that have i n c l u d e d bra k e l i n i n g s for 25 railroad use? 26 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 A No . 2 Q You indicated that you -- I'm sorry. Did you 3 or did you not sell asbestos wick and rope in 4 '67? 5 A Yes . 6 Q And that would have been a product that Anchor 7 would have sold in the 1950's as well? 8 A I believe s o . 9 Q As a sale s m a n in the '67 period, was it a part 10 of your job to explain to your customers the 11 proper uses of the products that you were 12 selling? 13 A No, it wasn't. We dealt w i t h e x p e r i e n c e d 14 maintenance people in the industrial 15 marketplace who have their own expertise and 16 their own shops in applying this material. 17 Q A n d ho w is it that you kn o w that t h e y were 18 experienced persons? Did you check that out 19 before you agreed to sell them products? 20 A They let you know. 21 Q Okay. 22 A They let you know that they did not need your 23 help . 24 Q Okay. Did you make it a part of y o u r normal 25 sales practice to ascertain for yourself that 27 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, R ECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 they knew how to properly apply and/or remove 2 your products before you would agree to sell 3 them to them? 4 A Not specifically. 5 Q Okay. You've qualified your answer by saying 6 not s p e c i f i c a l l y . What is it that you did 7 along that line, if anything? 8 A Our dealings were normally through the 9 purchasing agent. And he would have 10 r e q u i s i t i o n from the shop. A n d it was not 11 common to be called over into the shop to 12 have any dealings directly with the 13 applications engineering or the maintenance 14 mechanic. 15 Q So the p e r s o n you u s u a l l y c a l l e d u p o n or dealt 16 with would have been the purchasing agent? 17 A Yes. 8 Q And I think you just indicated to me that 19 that's not the type of person that's usually 20 out in the field doing the application, 21 correct ? 22 A T h a t 's r i g h t . 23 Q Did you try to ascertain for yourself that 24 this purchasing agent knew what the people out 25 in the field were doing in terms of 28 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 application? 2 A We didn't question them regarding that. 3 Q Whenever you got a purchase order asking for 4 gaskets, for example, did they usually specify 5 specifically what kind of gaskets that they 6 wanted? 7 A They - 8 Q Or they just asked for gaskets and you 9 supplied then with what you had? 10 A They would usually specify. 11 Q They would specify size and style and all of 12 that? 13 A That is correct. 14 Q Now, A n c h o r sold, at the time yo u s t a r t e d in 15 '67, gaskets, for example, that were made by 16 different companies, asbestos -containing 17 gaskets; is that correct? 1 8 A In '67, the g a sket m a t e r i a l in gaskets, 19 pre-cut gaskets, were mainly supplied by one 2 0 supplier. 21 Q And who was that supplier? 22 A Raybestos Manhattan. 23 Q But there were product lines containing 24 asbestos in the '60's that you were selling in 25 which you had nearly identical products, but 2 9 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 they were s u p p l i e d by d i f f e r e n t companies; is 2 that a fair statement? 3 A There were some. 4 Q A n d you had to make a decision, I assume, as 5 to which one you would sell? 6 A I don't think I follow your question. 7 Q Okay. If, for example, the p u r c h a s e o r d e r 8 sa i d I want p r o d u c t X, and th e n for p r o d u c t X, 9 which contained asbestos in the '60's, you had 10 manufacturer A that supplied you something 11 that would meet that specification and you had 12 supplier B who would -- who had a product that 13 you sold that met that specification, how did 14 you, as a salesman, determine whether you 15 w o u l d sell product A or product B? 16 A At that -- d u r i n g that time, p r o d u c t A was our 17 first choice and -- unless we couldn't acquire 18 that, the c u s t o m e r n e e d e d it t o m o r r o w and we 19 c o u l d o n l y get it next m o n t h from s u p p l i e r A, 2 0 we would then go to an alternative source to 2 1 give proper service to the customer. 22 Q Let me go back, because I think this will help 23 me understand. As I u n d e r s t a n d it from the 24 answers to interrogatories in this case, 25 Anchor has never manufactured any 3 0 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 a s b e s t o s -c o n t a i n i n g p r o d u c t s ? Is that a true 2 statement ? 3 A That is correct. 4 Q Has -- A n c h o r was a s u p p l i e r of 5 asbes t o s -c o n t a i n i n g products, as well as 6 p o s s i b l y other things, at the time that you 7 s t a r t e d in '67, and those p r o d u c t s were made 8 b y -- th e y were m a n u f a c t u r e d by s o m e b o d y 9 else? 10 A That is r i g h t . 11 Q And that would have been true in the '50's 12 also? 13 A C o r r e c t . 14 Q Would that have been true for the entire 15 history of Anchor Packing from 1908 up to 16 1993, that it was always just a s u p p l i e r and 17 not a manufacturer of asbestos -containing 18 products ? 19 A Yes. As far as my k n o w l e d g e is, that was the 2 0 situation throughout the history of the 21 company. 22 Q In 1967 when you came to the company, was 23 there one manufacturer whose products you 24 c o n s i d e r e d -- c o m p a n y A -- was there one 25 company that you supplied theirs, unless you 31 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 just couldn't get them? 2 A That was Raybestos Manhattan. 3 Q So as long as you could get a Raybestos 4 product which met their purchase order in the 5 time limit that that t h e y n e e d e d it, that 6 would have been the company whose product you 7 supplied in 1967? 8 A That's correct. 9 Q In the 1 9 5 0 ' s, w o u l d that have also b e e n true 10 for Raybestos Manhattan to have been the 11 primary supplier? 12 A I believe so . 13 Q Okay. 14 A I don't know specifically who was purchasing 15 at that t i m e . 16 Q At the time that you came in 1967, A n c h o r 17 a l r e a d y had this sales r e l a t i o n s h i p , if you 18 will, established with Raybestos where they 19 were selling Raybestos products? 20 A T h a t 's r i g h t . 21 Q You were not a part of whatever transactions 2 2 took place that led to Anchor selling 23 Raybestos products? 24 A N o , I was n o t . 25 Q Have you ever reviewed any documents, read 3 2 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 depositions, or talked with individuals in the 2 company or outside the company that would 3 enable you to share with the jury how that 4 relationship came about? 5 A No, I -- I have no k n o w l e d g e of that 6 relationship. 7 Q At some point in the history of the company 8 and the time that you wer e w i t h it, did 9 R a y b e s t o s cease to be the p r i m a r y s u p p l i e r of 10 asbestos -containing products to The Anchor 11 Packing Company? 12 A Yes, they did. 13 Q Do you reca l l a p p r o x i m a t e l y w h e n that w o u l d 14 have occurred? 15 A It was in the late '70's or e a r l y '80's. 16 Q Do you recall w h y that o c c u r r e d ? 17 A The d i s t r i c t o f f i c e s were r e c e i v i n g advice 18 from the home office that certain products 19 we r e b e t t e r -- c o u l d be b e t t e r p u r c h a s e d at 20 other locations. And gradually, we ceased to 21 do as much business with R/M. 22 Q And who became the primary supplier as that 23 relationship with R/M receded? 24 A V a r i o u s s u p p l i e r s on the b r a i d e d packing. 25 Gasket material primarily was then purchased 33 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ____________________ J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 ____________ 1 from Klinger and Garlock. And gradually, 2 Garlock became one of our more major suppliers 3 in the braided packing field. 4 Q You've limited yourself in that answer to 5 braided packing. And I'm sure that's probably 6 the e a s i e s t w ay to do it. Can y ou make a 7 g e n e r a l i z a t i o n as to asbestos -c o n t aining 8 products and tell me generally when Raybestos 9 b e g a n to be -- the i r share of y o u r m a r k e t 10 b e g a n to recede, if there is one company, not 11 just for braided packing, but for the whole 12 product line of asbestos -c o n t aining products 13 that primarily became the chief supplier to 14 The Anchor Packing Company? 15 A No, that w a s n ' t true at that time. 16 Q Okay. ' 17 A The first p r o d u c t that we s t o p p e d b u y i n g from 18 R/M was the gasket sheet out of the R/M plant 19 in Stratford, Connecticut. The braided 2 0 p ac k i n g came from another facility in 21 Pennsylvania. And we continued to use that 22 for a little while longer. I believe the 2 3 gasket sheet plant was having problems in 24 their manufacturing, and that prompted a 25 c h a n g e in that sense. A n d -- 34 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 Q I tell you what. I'm trying to be fair to 2 you. My q u e s t i o n is, can you make a 3 generalization, or do I need to go product by 4 p r o d u c t ? Is it fair to say that as R a y b e s t o s 5 Manhattan, upon the recommendation of the 6 general office to the district offices, began 7 to have a smaller and smaller share of the 8 p r o d u c t m a r k e t that A n c h o r was s e l l i n g to, did 9 any one company step up and become the primary 10 supplier as Raybestos had been to that point 11 of asbestos -containing products that Anchor 12 would sell? 13 A The r e was not an abr u p t change, but in 14 general, I would say that Garlock slowly 15 became our major supplier. Each district 16 office had the ability and the a u t h o r i t y to 17 purchase products from any manufacturer or 18 supplier as the need arose to service a 19 customer. So each district manager ran an 20 autonomous operation. It's difficult to say 21 that everybody jumped on the same band wagon 22 at the same time. 23 Q Would that have been true, as far as running 24 an autonomous shop, for the Houston sales 25 office also? 35 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1A I w o u l d assume it was, yes. 2 Q Were there any limitations on you once you 3 became a district manager? You said you would 4 kind of buy whoever's product you needed. 5 Were there any limitations on that? Was there 6 a list of a p p r o v e d vendors, or was it just 7 anybody that you could find that had a product 8 that was suitable for the purchase order you 9 were being asked to fill? 10 A E a c h d i s t r i c t sort of d e v e l o p e d t h e i r own 11 list, as you mentioned. However, if you got 12 into a problem, you would call one of your 13 friend's managers in another district and ask 14 for assistance, where can you get this or 15 where can you find that product. And we would 16 be helping each other in that sense. 17 Q Wer e there any c o m p a n i e s that the home o f fice 18 or principal office told the district offices, 19 you don't use their products? 20 MR. MAHONEY: At any time? 21 Q (By Mr. Morrison) At any time that you have 22 been working with the company, has there ever 23 been a company that the home office put a 24 moratorium on and said you are not to buy from 2 5 this company? 3 6 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ____________________ JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94______________ 1 A Not that I recall. 2 Q Has there ever been a moratorium or cessation 3 of any particular type of product where they 4 said no matter what the customer asks for, we 5 will not supply this anymore? 6 A Yes . 7 Q Okay. And what kind of product would that 8 have been? 9 A It w o u l d have been the b r a i d e d packing. We 10 we r e a d v i s e d in, I believe, late '81 that 11 there w o u l d be a -- that there w o u l d be a 12 cessation in manufacturing the material. And 13 our advice came from the home office that we 14 had approximately a year to dispose of product 15 on the shelf. In '86, we s t o p p e d s e l l i n g 16 sheet gasket material, except to customers 17 that specified that they required material for 18 a high temperature gasketing over seven 19 hundred and fifty degrees. 2 0 Q The cessation of the braided packing in 1981, 21 that was more a function of the fact that you 22 weren't going to have a supply anymore? They 23 d i d n ' t tell you that yo u c o u l d n ' t bu y it 24 a n y m o r e as long as it was out there, right? 25 A Yes, they told us we couldn't buy it anymore. 3 7 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 Q Okay. And what reason was given for that? 2 A Well, our major supplier was not manufacturing 3 it, but there were half a d o z e n o t h e r s that 4 we r e still m a n u f a c t u r i n g it. But the c o m p a n y 5 was g o i n g to cease m a r k e t i n g it. 6 Q Okay. And at that time in 1981, the p r i m a r y 7 supplier of braided packing -- which was an 8 asbestos -containing product, right? 9 A Yes, sir, some of it was. 10 Q Okay. In 1981, the m a j o r s u p p l i e r of the 11 asbestos -containing braided packing sold by 12 Anchor was Garlock, correct? 13 A T h a t ' s correct. 14 Q A n d was there a r e a s o n g i v e n to you as a 15 district man a g e r in the Boston sales office in 16 1981 as to why sales were to cease of this 17 product ? 18 A I don't recall s p e c i f i c n o t i c e of that. 19 Q What was yo u r u n d e r s t a n d i n g , as the d i s t r i c t 20 manager, of why you weren't to sell that 21 product anymore? 22 A My u n d e r s t a n d i n g was that there were b e t t e r 23 p r o d u c t s a v a i l a b l e w i t h the -- that did not 24 carry the hazard warning that the asbestos 25 products were. And a lot of the customers 3 8 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 were, at that point, asking for altern a t i v e 2 materials. 3 Q Part of the reason that the braided packing 4 containing asbestos ceased to be sold by 5 Anchor in 1981 was because of the asbestos 6 hazard warning that was being placed on that 7 product ? 8 A I assumed that that was the reason. 9 Q Okay. 10 A We w e r e n ' t told that. 11 Q Okay. Ha d you had p e r s o n a l e x p e r i e n c e of the 12 fact that your customers in your sales 13 territory had some reservations about buying 14 that product with the warning on it? 15 A Some did and some didn't. 16 Q Okay. ' 17 A Some a l w a y s r e q u e s t e d that they had to have 18 it . 19 Q The product, not the warning, right? 20 A Right. 21 Q Okay. In 1986, you i n d i c a t e d that the main 2 2 office indicated that you were to stop selling 23 sheet gasket material. And at that time, you 24 were the district manager of the northeast 2 5 district, the New York City area and Boston 3 9 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 also; is that correct? 2 A That's correct. 3 Q At that time, was a reason given for why that 4 material should not be sold any longer, except 5 for specific applications? 6 A We had available more a l t e r n a t i v e m a t e r i a l s to 7 use, and we sold the asbestos -containing 8 gasket sheet to customers that required its 9 use for high temperatures. 10 Q T e m p e r a t u r e s in exc e s s of sev e n h u n d r e d and 11 fifty degrees? 12 A T h a t ' s correct. 13 Q Okay. 14 A Most of our m a j o r c ustomers, such as p o w e r 15 plants, which was one of our major accounts, 16 major type of business, had those type of 17 temperatures in their system. 18 Q In 1986 when that halt was put to the sale of 19 that product except in the instances that we 2 0 talked about, was Garlock the primary supplier 2 1 of that asbestos -containing product? 22 A T h e y wer e one of the m a j o r -- at that time, we 23 had Klinger also supplying material. 24 Q Where was K l inger out of if you n e e d e d to get 25 ahold of that company to buy products? 4 0 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. 1A JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 I believe Sidney, Ohio. 2 Q Some of the purchasing agents that you worked 3 with at some of your jobs, were they always 4 men or were they men and women that you dealt 5 with? 6 A Men and women. 1 Q And the full gamut of ages, young people, 8 older people, middle-aged people? 9 A That's correct. 10 Q G o i n g b a c k to Call E x h i b i t N u m b e r 2, aft e r 11 your tenure i n i t i a l l y from '67 to '74 as a 12 salesman for the Western New York territory, 13 you became a district manager in 1974 of the 14 Boston sales district office? 15 A T h a t 's r i g h t . 16 Q A n d c o n t i n u e d in that p o s i t i o n unt i l 1985? 17 A T h a t 's r i g h t . 18 Q As you h e l d that p o s i t i o n as a d i s t r i c t 19 manager, did you continue direct sales 2 0 yourself also? 21 A No . 22 Q You supervised a staff of salesmen? 23 A T h a t ' s correct. 24 Q Let me go back and I'll come back to this. 25 When you first became a salesman in 1967, were 41 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 you given any training as to the job that you 2 were to do for this company? 3 A No . 4 Q Any on-the-job training where somebody went 5 out with you for a while and kind of taught 6 you how to sell these products? 7 A Yes, I traveled with the current salesman in 8 that territory for a period of three weeks. 9 Q During that three-week period, did this other 10 salesman describe to you the different 11 products that you were selling? 12 A In g e n e r a l . 13 Q All right. Do you rec a l l if he ev e r i n d i c a t e d 14 to you that some of these products contained 15 asbestos? 16 A No, I don't recall that. 17 Q Do you rec a l l him ever t e l l i n g you as a part 18 of that t h r e e - w e e k t r a i n i n g -- o n - t h e - j o b type 19 training program, whether or not there were 2 0 any hazards c o n n e c t e d with the use of 2 1 asbestos -containing products? 22 A I don't recall any such d i s c u s s i o n s . In 2 3 general, my period of time with that s alesman 24 was just to learn the territory and the 25 location of the various accounts and an 42 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 introduction to the proper people. 2 Q Okay. 3 A P r o d u c t k n o w l e d g e was -- came s e c o n d h a n d in 4 that sense. 5 Q Had you had employment between completing your 6 education and 1967? 7 A Yes . 8 Q W h y don't you start for me -- w h a t ' s the 9 highest level of education that you achieved, 10 sir? 11 A C o l l e g e . 12 Q A n d what ki n d of d e g r e e did you o b t a i n in 13 college? 14 A B u s i n e s s m a n a g e m e n t . 15 Q A n d w h e r e was that o b t a i n e d ? 16 A C l a r i o n State College, P e n n s y l v a n i a . 17 Q I m m e d i a t e l y after college, what was the first 18 job that you had? 19 A I worked in the customer service departments 2 0 of Ducane Light Company in Pittsburgh, 21 Pennsylvania. 22 Q D u r i n g y o u r e m p l o y m e n t -- what was y o u r job 23 there at Ducane? 24 A C u s t o m e r service. 25 Q You w o u l d n ' t have had any job a s s i g n m e n t s 43 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 w h i c h w o uld have incl u d e d the a p p l i c a t i o n of 2 the type products that you sold with Anchor, 3 would you? 4 A Oh, no, it was an inside o f fice job. 5 Q How long were you with that company, 6 approximately? 7 A A little over four years. 8 Q After your employment there, what was your 9 next employment? 10 A I w o r k e d w i t h a c o m p a n y by the name of S h i e l d s 11 Rubber Corporation in P i t t sburgh also as an 12 inside sales. They sold rubber products; 13 mainly hose, rubber sheet, O-rings. 14 Q I'm sorry, 0 - r i n g s ? 15 A 0 -r i n g s . 16 Q D id any of those p r o d u c t s that you wer e d o i n g 17 sales for at Shields c o ntain asbestos? 18 A N o . 19 Q Ho w long were you in that p o s i t i o n ? 2 0 A Roughly ten years. 21 Q A n d your next employ m e n t after Shields? 22 A Was w i t h A n c h o r Packing. 23 Q Pri o r to the time that you b e g a n w i t h Anchor, 24 what, if anything, was your k n o w l e d g e about 25 asbestos and its uses? Let's start with 44 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 that . 2 A Really, very limited. 3 Q Did you have any knowledge, whether acquired 4 on a previous job or just from reading 5 newspapers or wherever you might have gotten 6 it in 1967 when you s t arted with Anchor, about 7 any possible health hazards of exposure to 8 asbestos ? 9 A No. 10 Q A n d no one w i t h A n c h o r ev e r c o m m u n i c a t e d to 11 you at the time that you began e m p l oyment in 12 1967 any possible hazards of exposure to 13 asbestos ? 14 A No, the y did not. 15 Q W h e n was the first time that you h e a r d 16 anything from anybody about possible hazards 17 associated with exposure to asbestos? 18 A I s u p p o s e w h e n we were a d v i s e d to have h a z a r d 19 labels, the dust caution on the product that 20 we sent o u t . 21 Q That w o u l d have been for the first time in 22 1975? 23 A Yes, e a r l y in '75. 24 Q I take it, then, it w o u l d be fair to a s s u m e 25 that from '67 to '75, you c e r t a i n l y n e v e r 45 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 communicated to any of your customers any 2 possible health hazards that might be 3 associated with the use of asbestos -containing 4 p r o d u c t s ? Is that a fair a s s u m p t i o n ? 5 A That's correct. 6 Q After 1975 and the placement of warnings on 7 some or all of the products, did you instruct 8 your sales people to communicate orally any 9 types of warnings or instructions to customers 10 who bought asbestos -containing products? 11 A N o , we did n o t . 12 Q W h e n you b e c a m e the d i s t r i c t m a n a g e r in 1974 13 of the Boston sales district office, were the 14 s a l e s m e n u n d e r you p e o p l e who -- wer e most of 15 them at least people who had a l r e a d y been 16 doing the job before you came to that 17 position? 18 A Yes, t h e y were. 19 Q You didn ' t start a new t e r r i t o r y ? 20 A N o , I did n o t . 21 Q Did you have as part of your job 22 responsibility during that nine years training 23 new salesmen? 24 A Yes . 25 Q You would have hired some new salesmen during 46 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 that nine years? 2 A Yes, I did. 3 Q How did you go about training a salesman 4 during that nine-year period about how they 5 were to do their job with Anchor? 6 A Send them with the current salesman to learn 7 the territory, if that was a go o d situation, 8 and have them work in the office and 9 familiarize themselves with the product, work 10 in the w a r e h o u s e for a few days to see what it 11 looked like and how it was packaged. And then 12 give them an order pad and send them on the 13 road . 14 Q The r e was no -- it was not part of y o u r 15 training program for you to sit down with 16 these new salesmen yourself and train them 17 about the products and their uses, their 18 applications, that sort of thing? 19 A No, we did not have a t r a i n i n g p r o g r a m set up 2 0 to accomplish that. 21 Q W o u l d that have also been true from 1985 to 2 2 1990 when you were the district manager of the 23 northeast district combining New York City and 24 Boston? 25 A That was true up until 1988, after the 4 7 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 purchase of the company by Garlock. Garlock 2 ran t r a i n i n g p r o g r a m s at their f a c i l i t y in 3 P a l m y r a and Sodus, N e w York, for that -- for 4 that purpose. 5 Q All right. When this began in 1988, were you 6 invited to attend one of these training 7 programs ? 8 A Yes . 9 Q And did you actually attend that? 10 A Yes . 11 Q What kin d s of things took pla c e in that 12 training program conducted by Garlock? 13 A G e n e r a l i n f o r m a t i o n as to how a m a t e r i a l was 14 manufactured, actual tours through the plant, 15 watching material being manufactured, and some ie hands-on training, theory, applications, how 17 to use the m a t e r i a l . 18 Q Do you recall a p p r o x i m a t e l y how m a n y p e o p l e 19 went through the same tour and all of this 2 0 stuff that you have just d e s c r i b e d at the same 21 time that you did? 22 A P r o b a b l y half the e m p l o y e e s at a time. They 23 would run two sessions for four or five days 24 and take half the employees for that week and 25 then the other half of the employees for the 4 8 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. _________ ____________JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 ____________ 1 next week. 2 Q Are we talking - 3 A They would do that once a year at a level one, 4 level two, and level three training. Each 5 session got more involved. 6 Q When you went through this first one, are we 7 talking about a group of maybe five people 8 with you? Or are we talking nearly a 9 hundred? How many employees are we talking 10 about, roughly? 11 A I w o u l d say thirty. 12 Q Okay. W h e n you s t a r t e d that program, did you 13 start in a meeting room with a presentation 14 first? 15 A Yes . 16 Q Okay. And do you recall who made that ' 17 presentation? 18 A I d o n 't recall. 19 Q Okay. 2 0 A They had somebody that was responsible for 21 each group. 22 Q Prior to that presentation, Anchor had had a 23 fairly long history of already selling Garlock 24 products, correct? 25 A T hat's correct. 49 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 Q Did you know any of the folks that you saw 2 there at Garlock? 3A I did, yes. 4 Q Who do you recall that you already knew before 5 you went to this training program and saw as a 6 part of that? 7 A I don't recall specific names, but there were 8 people that we associated with or would have 9 communicated with, rather, through the normal 10 course of business in the sales office or 11 manufacturing plant. 12 Q In that init i a l m e e t i n g at level -- I a s s u m e 13 level one is the b e g i n n i n g level? 14 A T h a t ' s correct. 15 Q In this first w o r k s h o p at level one or b e fore 16 you went into the warehouse or going through 17 any field applications, were you told anything 18 about asbestos? 19 A N o . 20 Q W h e n you went t h rough the warehouse, were 21 people actual l y wor k i n g as you went through 22 there ? 23 A Yes, the y were. 24 Q And did you wear a respirator? 25 A N o . 50 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ____________________ JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94_______________ 1 Q Did anybody in your group wear a respirator? 2 A No. 3 Q Was a r e s p ir a t o r off e r e d to you or anybody in 4 your group? 5 A No . 6 Q When you went through and you said you saw 7 some a p p l i c a t i o n s -- were the y a c t u a l l y d o i n g 8 simulated applications - 9 A They set up a - 10 Q -- or did the y set that up for you? 11 A E x c u s e m e . 12 Q T h a t 's o k a y . 13 A T h e y had set up a little shop w h e r e the y had 14 pumps and valves and gaskets and took the 15 time to work with each individual to show them 16 the right way and the wrong way to use 17 material. 18 Q Okay. Is there any r e a s o n that The A n c h o r 19 Packing Company couldn't have done that same 2 0 thing back when you started in 1967, to train 21 the folks that you were selling these gaskets 22 and packings to? 23 MR. MAHONEY: I'm going to 24 object to the form of that 25 question. I believe it's 51 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 argumentative. You can answer. 2A I don't know any reason why they didn't. At 3 that time, the sales force wasn't exposed to 4 manufacturers. Their firsthand knowledge of 5 the p r o d u c t was after it got to our warehous e , 6 so - - 7Q (By Mr. Morrison) But your sal e s m e n were 8 expected to know generally what the product 9 applications were for the products they were 10 selling, right? 11 A T h a t ' s correct. But most of that a p p l i c a t i o n 12 knowledge was acquired by dealing with their 13 better customers who knew what they wanted, 14 and the sales staff was reverse learning, so 15 to speak, reverse training. 16 Q Your salesmen and yourself, even in 1967, 17 would have been hard pressed to try to show 18 somebody the way these Garlock folks did to 19 you at level one e x a c t l y how to place a gasket 2 0 or a packing, wouldn't they? 21 A T hat's correct. 22 Q Because you had not had any specific training 23 on how to actually, in the field, apply one of 24 those two asbestos -containing products? 25 A R i g h t . 52 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 Q Did you later attend a level two presentation 2 by Garlock? 3 A Yes. 4 Q What was the difference in the level two 5 presentation or any differences that you 6 recall from the level one presentation? 7 A It got more i n v o l v e d w i t h h a n d s - o n 8 applications, more products were brought into 9 the classroom to discuss. And level three was 10 another step. 11 Q A n d was that s o m e t h i n g that, s t a r t i n g in 1988, 12 each employee was required to attend and 13 complete levels one, two - 14 A T h a t ' s - 15 Q -- and three of t r a i n i n g ? 16 A T h a t ' s correct. 17 Q You w o u l d agree w i t h me, sir, that it w o u l d 18 have been helpful to you in 1967 to have had 19 that kind of training, wouldn't you, to have 20 bettered the service that you could provide 21 your customers? 22 A Yes, I w o u l d have to agree a f t e r the fact. In 23 '67, we t h o ught we k n e w e v e r y t h i n g we n e e d e d 24 to know. 25 Q A n d then from -- I thi n k I've i n d i c a t e d that 53 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 from 1985 to 1990, we talked about your job. 2 And from 1990 to 1993, Call Exhibit Number 2 3 indicates that you were district manager of a 4 combined sales district comprised of the 5 northeast district and the Philadelphia sales 6 district offices located in Woburn and 7 Peabody, Massachusetts and Philadelphia, 8 Pennsylvania; is that correct? 9 A That's correct. 10 Q A n d Call E x h i b i t N u m b e r 2 i n d i c a t e s from 1985 11 until 1993, on the two different entries, you 12 reported to the home office in Greensboro, 13 N o r t h Carolina; is that correct? 14 A A f t e r 1988. 15 Q A n d is that b e c a u s e t h a t ' s G a r l o c k ? Or what 16 changed in 1988? 17 A T h e y m o v e d the home o f f i c e from P h i l a d e l p h i a 18 to G r e e n s b o r o . 19 Q A n d so p r i o r to that time, you still r e p o r t e d 20 to a home office, but it was just in a 21 different location? 22 A T h a t ' s correct. 23 Q Was there regularly written communication 24 b e t w e e n the home office, w h e t h e r it was in 25 Philadelphia and Greensboro, and the district 54 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 offices or managers, such as yourself? 2 MR. MAHONEY: Objection, I 3 think that q u e s t i o n is vague b e cause 4 it does not iden t i f y a specific time 5 period, unless you are asking for 6 all t i m e . 7Q (By Mr. Morrison) I'm asking generally, how 8 did they do their business? Did they 9 communicate with you in writing fairly 10 frequently as a district manager? 11 A Oh, there were c o m m u n i c a t i o n s , FAXes, p h one 12 calls between the home office and each 13 district office. There were sales meetings 14 between managers and the president and 15 marketing manager in Greensboro. 16 Q The s e sales m e e t i n g s that you have t a l k e d 17 about, if I u n d e r s t o o d you c o r r e c t l y and 18 r e m e m b e r e d it correctly, they were b e t w e e n 19 managers, sales managers, and the president? 20 Is that what you said? 21 A The p r e s i d e n t s of Anchor. 22 Q Okay. A n d who was the p r e s i d e n t of A n c h o r 23 when you started in 1967? 24 A The s e m e e t i n g s did not occ u r in '67. These 25 meetings only occurred after 1987. 55 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 Q Okay. You are getting one que s t i o n ahead of 2 me. That's where I was going. But my 3 q u e s t i o n is, who was the p r e s i d e n t in '67 whe n 4 you started? 5 A C h a r l e s -- exc u s e me. Mrs. Adams. 6 Q M r s . Adams ? 7 A Right. 8 Q Was she the wife of Lyndon Adams? 9 A That's correct. 10 Q At that time, was he still living? 11 A No, I don't b e l i e v e so. 12 Q And you have indicated, I believe, that these 13 sales meetings that you described earlier 14 didn't start until 1987? 15 A T h a t ' s correct. 16 Q W h e n t h e y s t a r t e d in 1987, were they l i m i t e d 17 to district managers? Or would persons who 18 had the position that you had in 1967 have 19 been included in these meetings? 20 A In 1987, it was l i m i t e d to the d i s t r i c t 21 managers. 22 Q Prior to 1987, was there any type of regularly 23 conducted meeting for Anchor Packing home 24 office and district offices once a month, once 25 a year, any kind of meetings where they 56 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 regularly met to discuss the business of the 2 company? 3 A N o , not at all. 4 Q Was there a regular schedule where someone 5 from the home office would come to the 6 district offices for any type of regular 7 visits or meetings? 8 A It w a s n ' t a r e g u l a r schedule, but it w o u l d 9 p robably occur six to nine months, maybe a 10 year . 11 Q And I think I know what you mean, but every 12 six months to nine months? 13 A Yeah, e v e r y six m o n t h s to nine months, s o m e o n e 14 would come and visit. 15 Q Wha t w o u l d be the purpose, g enerally, in 16 h a v i n g s o m e o n e from -- what were t h e y c o m i n g 17 down to the district offices to do in these 18 visits every six to nine months, 19 approximately? 20 A I believe just to say hello. 21 Q Okay. 22 A Let e v e r y b o d y know that they were part of 23 the -- a part of the company; just a PR 24 visit-- 25 Q Okay. 57 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. 1A JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 -- most of the time. 2 Q It gave you an o p p o r t u n i t y and the d i s t r i c t 3 offices to address any questions that you 4 might have to the home office? 5 A We addressed them regularly over the phone or 6 in correspondence with them. 7 Q Okay. So there were good lines of 8 communication - 9 A Very good. 10 Q -- in the e n t i r e time you have b e e n w i t h 11 Anchor ? 12 A V e r y good. 13 Q You felt comfortable, any time you had a - 14 when you were a district manager to call 15 somebody in the home office to ask questions 16 or express concerns? 17 A T h a t ' s correct. 18 Q A n d vi c e versa, you fou n d it to be true that 19 Anchor regularly communicated with you any 20 questions or concerns that they might have 21 had? 22 A T h a t 's r i g h t . 23 Q I believe we started talking about this, but 24 I'm not sure that we got to the end of it. 25 Why, if you know, were R a y b e s t o s M a n h a t t a n 58 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 products - why was that eased out or stopped 2 in favor of other companies, Garlock and 3 Klinger? 4 A I d o n 't k n o w . 5 Q No one from the home office ever communicated 6 to you or your office that you were w o r k i n g at 7 at the time why that was occurring? 8 A That's right, they didn't give us a reason. 9 Q Did you have an understanding, based on talk 10 in the office or for whatever reason, did you 11 have any u n d e r s t a n d i n g of w h y you t h ought it 12 was occurring, even though no one may have 13 told you? 14 A I t h o u g h t that it was o c c u r r i n g b e c a u s e of 15 some business problem that arose between the 16 two heads of the companies. 17 Q Okay. Do you recall a p p r o x i m a t e l y when that 18 would have started where R/M's products kind 19 of began decreasing in their share of the 2 0 products that you were selling and other 21 companies began to take on a gre a t e r share of 22 the - - 23 A The late '7 0 ' s, e a r l y ' 8 0 ' s . 24 Q Okay. And just for the record, Mr. Call, Call 25 E x h i b i t N u m b e r 2, the e m p l o y m e n t h i s t o r y you 59 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 have giv e n us, fairly and a c c u r a t e l y 2 represents your history of employment with The 3 Anchor Packing Company? 4 A That's correct. 5 Q When you started in 1967, who was the district 6 manager of the New York territory that you 7 worked in? 8 A Carl Frey, F-R-E-Y. 9 Q And is Mr. Frey still living, to your 10 knowledge ? 11 A N o , he's n o t . 12 Q Have you ever known any of the people who 13 worked in the Houston office of The Anchor 14 P a c k i n g C o m p a n y w h e n e v e r it might have b e e n 15 open? 16 A No, I did not k n o w them. 17 Q Do y ou k n o w any p e r s o n s that yo u u n d e r s t o o d 18 worked there, but that later moved to maybe 19 the territory that you had some familiarity 2 0 with? 21 A I'm not sure when they closed the Houston 22 office. And I know one clerk that worked 23 there that subsequently went to another 24 branch, but I don't -- I don't b e l i e v e that 2 5 she still was working with the company when 60 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D, CALL - 12/7/94 1 they closed. 2 Q A n d what is that c l erk's name? 3A I don't recall the name. 4 Q Okay. As I u n d e r s t a n d it, there was also a 5 bran c h office in Beaumont for some peri o d of 6 time ? 7 A I'm not aware of that. 8 Q Okay. 9 A Often, the listing of offices may have been in 10 a salesman's location, to that area. That may 11 have been where he lived. 12 Q Okay. It m a y have even b e e n t h e i r home - 13 A T h a t ' s what I mean. 14 Q -- that th e y were w o r k i n g out of? 15 A T h a t ' s what I mean. Most of our s a l e s m e n 16 worked out of their home and only reported to 17 the office as requested. 18 Q All right. Were there any o t h e r persons, 19 other than Anchor employees, who were 20 authorized to sell Anchor Packing products 21 during its history? 22 A No. 23 Q At the time that Anchor Packing ceased doing 24 business in October of 1993, who was the 25 highest ranking officer in that company? 61 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOHN D. CALL 12/7/94 1 A That was the president of the company, was 2 Denny Vogel, V-O-G-E-L. 3 Q I'm sorry, is that D e n n y or Danny? 4 A Denny. 5 Q A n d is Mr. Vog e l still in the -- still in the 6 Philadelphia area, or do you know? 7 A He's in the Greensboro area. 8 Q Do you have any idea how long Mr. Vogel had 9 been with the c ompany prior to Oct o b e r of 10 1993 ? 11 MR. MAHONEY: Objection. I'm 12 seeking a clarification. When you 13 say "company," are you talking about 14 Anchor Packing Company? 15 MR. MORRISON: Yes. 16 MR. MAHONEY: Not Garlock. 17 Okay. 18 MR. MORRISON: Let me start 19 with that, then. 20 MR. MAHONEY: Yeah. 21 Q (By Mr. Morrison) Was Mr. Vogel an employee 22 of The Anchor Packing Company in October of 23 1993 ? 24 A Yes . 2 5 Q Is he no w an e m p l o y e e of the G a r l o c k C o m p a n y 62 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 or Garlock, Inc.? 2 A Yes, he is an employee of one of their 3 divisions. 4 Q And do you know what division that is? 5 A Yes, it's the fluid tech division in 6 Greensboro. 7 Q Is that a d i v i s i o n of G a r l o c k or Coltech, if 8 you know? 9 A I believe it's a division of Garlock. 10 Q Prior to October, 1993, do you know how long, 11 approximately, Mr. Vogel had been with The 12 Anchor Packing Company? 13 A A p p r o x i m a t e l y one year. 14 Q Pri o r to that time, who was the p r e s i d e n t of 15 Anchor Packing? 16 A It was a man by the name of Will Tener, 17 T-E-N-E-R. 18 Q Okay. A n d do you k n o w w h e r e Mr. T e n e r is 19 today? 20 A He is in the G r e e n s b o r o area. 21 Q Is he e m p l o y e d by G a r l o c k or C o l t e c h or any of 22 their divisions? 23 A Not to my k n o w l e d g e . 24 Q H o w long, if you know, was Mr. T e n e r p r e s i d e n t 2 5 of The Anchor Packing Company? 63 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 A Approximately two years. 2 Q Okay. Prior to Mr. Tener, do you recall who 3 was president? 4 A Bob Coleates, C -0-L -E -A - T -E -S . 5 Q And how long, approximately, was Mr. Coleates 6 president of Anchor Packing Company? 7 A Approximately three years. 8 Q Okay. A n d do you kn o w whe r e Mr. C o l e a t e s is 9 today? 10 A He is an e m p l o y e e of G a r l o c k in Palmyra, New 11 York . 12 Q Would you happen to know what his position 13 there would be? 14 A I b e l i e v e he's v i c e - p r e s i d e n t of one of t h e i r 15 manufacturing groups. 16 Q I k n o w I'm s t r e t c h i n g y o u r memory. A n d I 17 don't m e a n to be u n f a i r to you. If you don't 18 remember, that's fine. 19 A I'll say so. 20 Q Do you know who was president before 21 Mr. Coleates was president? 22 A He was the first after the p u r c h a s e of the 23 company. 24 Q Okay. But I want to go back even further than 25 that . 64 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 A Oh. 2 Q Prior to - 3 A Oh, Charles Kenkelen. 4 Q I'm sorry? Charles? 5 A Charles Kenkelen. 6 Q And Mr. Kenkelen was president of the company 7 for approximately how long? 8 A I'd say approximately sixteen, seventeen 9 years. 10 Q Was Mr. Kenkelen the president when you first 11 began your employ with Garlock? 12 A What - - 13 MR. MAHONEY: Objection. I 14 believe he already said Mrs. Adams. 15 MR. MORRISON: You're 16 correct. 17 A M r s . A d a m s . 18 Q (By Mr. Morrison) You're correct. A f ter 19 Mrs. Adams and Charles Kenkelen, was there 20 anyone in between those two? 21 A No. 22 Q Do you know where Mr. K e n k e l e n is today? 23 A I b e l i e v e that he lives in the P h i l a d e l p h i a 24 area . 25 Q Do you k n o w if he has any c o n n e c t i o n w i t h 65 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 Garlock or Coltech or any of their 2 divisions? 3A I don't believe he does. 4 Q Would you have worked fairly extensively with 5 Mr. Kenkelen during your employment with The 6 Anchor Packing Company? 7 A Yes . 8 Q Going back to what we talked about earlier, 9 you felt comfortable, if you n e e d e d to talk to 10 Mr. Kenkelen in one of these district manager 11 positions, in picking up the phone and talking 12 to him? 13 A T h a t ' s correct. 14 Q In the o f f i c e whe r e you s t a r t e d w i t h A n c h o r in 15 1967, that was in Pittsburgh? 16 A Yes, tha t ' s correct. 17 Q Wer e yo u w o r k i n g out of y o u r house at that 18 time? Or was there - 19 A Well, P i t t s b u r g h was the d i s t r i c t s offi c e that 20 was responsible for the Upstate New York 21 territory. 22 Q Did you start out by working out of your 23 house, or did you work out of an actual Anchor 24 office? 25 A I w o r k e d in the offi c e for like two wee k s and 66 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 then moved to Buffalo. 2 Q W h e n yo u w o r k e d in the office, the -- can you 3 describe for me just generally, are we talking 4 about just an office like this law office 5 here, maybe not this size, but an office where 6 people are doing business? Or was there a 7 warehouse attached to the office? 8 A There was a warehouse attached to the office. 9 Q Okay. 10 A All the d i s t r i c t s have w a r e h o u s e and off i c e 11 operations. 12 Q So in a d d i t i o n to m a k i n g sales, you c o u l d make 13 deliveries within your given district? 14 A T h a t ' s correct. 15 Q O t h e r than p e r s o n s w o r k i n g in that w a r e h o u s e 16 filling orders, shipping stuff, receiving 17 stuff, was there any other type of work going 18 on back in those w a r e h o u s e s at any of the 19 districts in which you worked? 2 0 A The only operation was gasket fabrication, 21 cutting gaskets. 22 Q That would have been from asbestos sheets that 23 are -- 24 A Fr o m all types of sheets, yes. 25 Q Those w o u l d have be e n sheets that had a l r e a d y 67 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 2 3 4A been manufactured by somebody else and you cut the district warehouses cut the gaskets to customer specifications? That's correct. 5 Q Did you personally ever have to go back and do 6 any of that cutting? 7 A I have done it, yes. 8 Q How was that generally done? 9 A With a razor knife or a gasket cutting press 10 with a die, much like a cookie cutter I think 11 is the best wa y to d e s c r i b e it. 12 Q You t a l k e d about a kni f e at first. W o u l d that 13 have been a gasket cutter? 14 A Yes, a sharp kni f e or r a z o r knife. 15 Q A s i m i l a r p r o d u c t was sold by The A n c h o r 16 Packing Company for some period of time? 17 A The - 18 MR. MAHONEY: Objection, 19 similar? 20 Q (By Mr. Morrison) A knife to cut g a s k e t s 2 1 with? 22 A A gask e t c u t t i n g tool, just for c u t t i n g a 23 gasket and - 24 Q Okay. 25 A Just like a compass with blades on the end, 68 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 straight gaskets were cut with a straight 2 edge, a straight knife, or gaskets were die 3 cut . 4 Q In those w a r e h o u s e s -- in the A n c h o r 5 warehouses, have you ever just seen anybody 6 just tear a gasket? 7 A No. 8 Q Is the r e any r e a s o n that you k n o w of, as we 9 sit here today, why that should or should not 10 be done? 11 A It w o u l d be v e r y d i f f i c u l t to tear it, n u m b e r 12 one. And number two, you wouldn't get a 13 straight edge. 14 Q W h i c h is i m p o r t a n t b e c a u s e it m i g h t not seal 15 properly? 16 A T h a t ' s correct. 17 Q D id yo u ever, as a part of y o u r sales 18 p r o c e d u r e from '67 to '74, did you ever have 19 to provide the purchasing agents with 2 0 instructions on how to properly cut gaskets 2 1 from gasket sheets? 22 A I don't believe we were ever asked to provide 23 any i n f o rmation of that type. 24 Q And I think in line with what we have already 25 talked about, that wasn't something that you 6 9 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 v o l u n t e e r e d as information since they didn't 2 ask and you a s sumed they a l r e a d y knew; is that 3 right ? 4 A That's correct. 5 Q Other than cutting gaskets from gasket sheets, 6 was there any o t h e r type of w o r k -- and, 7 again, r e m e m b e r i n g that I -- o t h e r than 8 s h i p p i n g in, s h i p p i n g out, f i l l i n g orders, 9 cutting gaskets, was there anything else going 10 on in these warehouses? 11 A N o . 12 Q At any p o i n t d u r i n g y o u r tenu r e w i t h Anchor, 13 do you recall ever seeing any warnings of any 14 sort being put up on the warehouse walls 15 concerning asbestos for the employees? 16 A No, I n e v e r saw any. 17 Q As a d i s t r i c t manager, were you ever a s k e d to 18 conduct any meetings about asbestos with your 19 employees back in those warehouses? 20 A N o , I was n o t . 21 Q As a d i s t r i ct m a n a g e r after 1975 when you 22 first learned of potential hazards related to 23 asbestos, did you ever take it u p o n y o u r s e l f 24 to conduct any meetings with people back in 25 your warehouses at your district to talk to CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO 7 0 INC . J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 them about those potential dangers that you 2 had heard of? 3 A N o , we did n o t . 4 Q We talked earlier about the relationship with 5 Raybestos Manhattan being something that 6 occurred prior to the time that you came to 7 the company, correct? 8 A That's correct. 9 Q Do you know whether the relationship whereby 10 The Anchor Packing Company would sell Garlock, 11 Inc. products similarly began before you began 12 with the company? Or did that begin after you 13 started in '67? 14 A I b e l i e v e that that came a f t e r I s t a r t e d in 15 '67 . 16 Q Did yo u have any role or p a r t i c i p a t e in any 17 way with ironing out how that relationship 18 would be carried out, how the sales would 19 occur, the supplying of the products would 20 occur, that sort of thing? 21 A No. D u r i n g that time frame, after we s t a rted 22 doing busi n e s s with them, if I n e e d e d product, 23 I would order from their catalog and place an 24 order on the phone, normally. 25 Q Di d you p a r t i c i p a t e at all -- di d the y have 71 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. __________ __________ J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 _______ 1 m e e t i n g s or a n y t h i n g -- w h e n the r e l a t i o n s h i p 2 with Oarlock started initially, did they have 3 a meeting to introduce Garlock or its sales 4 people to you as an employee, maybe with other 5 employees, I assume? 6 A No. 7 Q You were just either given a written 8 communication, oral communication that said 9 this is a new supp l i e r that we are going to 10 start using? 11 A That we c o u l d start u s i n g them as a s u p p l i e r 12 of that type of products. 13 Q A n d at some point, a w r i t t e n or oral 14 communication was transmitted to you that they 15 would assume a greater percentage of the type 16 of products that you would be selling as 17 Raybestos Manhattan's percentage decreased? 18 A Yes . 19 Q Was that an oral c o m m u n i c a t i o n or a w r i t t e n 2 0 communication? 21 A I r e a l l y don't recall. 22 Q Was it ever c o m m u n i c a t e d to you in any m a n n e r 23 why Garlock was chosen as a supplier of 24 products ? 25 A No . 72 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. -- -_________________ J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94___________ 1 Q The persons whom you couldn't remember by 2 name, but you thought you might have known 3 when you went to the level one training 4 meeting in 1988, would those have been persons 5 that you met -- how w o u l d yo u have met those 6 people, even though you remember their 7 names -- 8 A Oh -- . 9 Q -- p r i o r to 1988? 10 A Just t h r o u g h p h o n e c o m m u n i c a t i o n . 11 Q Was there ever an i n d i v i d u a l or g r o u p of 12 individuals or a representative from the 13 Garlock Company that came to any of your 14 particular offices to introduce themselves to 15 you? 16 A N o . 17 Q Was there ever any w r i t t e n c o m m u n i c a t i o n from 18 G a r l o c k t a l k i n g to you about -- o t h e r than 19 just catalogs -- talking to you as the 2 0 district manager or your sales people about 21 their products? 22 A N o . 2 3 Q Okay. 24 A U n l e s s -- let me add to that, u n l e s s we 25 requested a quotation from them for a specific 73 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 line of material or specific quantity. 2 Q And prior to 1988, Garlock had never provided 3 any sort of t raining to you or your sales 4 people on their products? 5 A No. 6 Q I'm sorry, that's a correct statement? 7 A That's correct. 8 Q At the home office in Philadelphia when you 9 started, do you recall approximately how big 10 an office that was? 11 A T h a t 's - - 12 MR. MAHONEY: In terms of 13 size or personnel? 14 Q (By Mr. Morrison) Personnel. 15 A P e r s o n n e l ? 16 MR. MAHONEY: Okay. ' 17 A P r o b a b l y a dozen people. 18 Q (By Mr. Morrison) Were there sales being made 19 out of -- out of P h i l a d e l p h i a , the m a i n o f f i c e 20 itself? 21 A N o . 22 Q It was an o f fi c e set up to c o o r d i n a t e the 23 different districts? 24 A T h a t ' s correct. 25 Q Was there a n other person, in a d d i t i o n or 7 4 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 0 2 1 22 23 24 25 _______ ________ J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 i n s t e a d of Mr. K e n k e l e n -- MR. MAHONEY: Kenkelen. Q (By Mr. Morrison) K e n k e l e n -- who you w o uld c o m m u n i c a t e with on a f a irly r e g u l a r b a sis at the home office in Philadelphia? A Dave Muir, M-U-I-R, was vice-president. He was primarily a financial man. And Bill Miedema, M -I -E -D -E - M - A , was vice p r e s i d e n t of sales, as a national sales manager. He is now deceased. Q Do you kn o w where Mr. Mu i r is today? A In the Philadelphia area. Q To the best of your knowledge, does he have any -- is he e m p l o y e d by Coltech, Garlock, or any of their divisions? A No. Q If, d u r i n g any of the times from 1974 to 1993, if you had had p r o b l e m s with the p e r f o r m a n c e of a p a r t i c u l a r p r o d u c t -- did that ever occur, where you found a product that wasn't performing in the field the way that - A Ye s . Q A n d if y ou n e e d e d to c o m m u n i c a t e that to somebody at the sales office, did you ever talk to them and say I would like to CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, 75 INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 --------------------- J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94_________ discontinue this product, I don't think we s h o u l d be s e l l i n g it b e c a u s e it's not p e r f o r m i n g the right wa y the end u s e r s want it to perform? MR. MAHONEY: I am g o ing to object to form. I think it's a multiple compound question. But go ahead and answer if you u n d e r s t a n d it . A My first contact would have probably been with the sales manager. He would advise me as to how to proceed or he would contact the manufacturer and work out an arrangement to r e p l a c e the p r o d u c t or chan g e it. Q (By Mr. Morrison) Okay. When you say sales manager, would that have been the position that Mr. Miedema - A Yes . Q -- held? A Yes . Q Was he in that position the majority of the time that you were with Anchor? A Yes, he w a s . Q Do you recall any instances at all where you, yours e l f , would, have c o n t a c t e d a m a n u f a c t u r e r 76 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ___________ _________ J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 _________ 1 and expressed any reservations or problems 2 with their products? 3A I don't recall any specific instances, but I 4 probably did. 5 Q That s something that you would have felt 6 c o m f o r t a b l e -- I mean, you felt yo u had the 7 right to do that if you w a n t e d to as a 8 district manager? 9 A Yes, I did. 10 Q Ev e n as a salesman, did you have that right if 11 you wished to do so? 12 A No . 13 Q As a salesman, you would have considered the 14 proper channel to have gone through would be 15 the district manager and allowed them to 16 contact - 17 A That's correct. 18 Q As a district manager, you could make a 19 d e c i s i o n to choose one p r o d u c t over a n o t h e r if 2 0 you just personally found that perhaps that 21 company's product didn't p e r f o r m as you wished 22 to see it perform, and therefore, sales were 23 being hurt? 24 A Yes, I could. 25 Q Were there any ex c e p t i o n s to that? For, 77 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. 1 2 3 4A JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 example after Garlock became the primarysupplier, could you disfavor Garlock products if you w i s h e d as a district manager? If I felt it was necessary. 5 Q During the time that Mr. Miedema was with the 6 company as the sales manager, did he ever 7 have an assistant or anybody that you might 8 have c o m m u n i c a t e d with if he wasn't 9 available ? 10 A P r o b a b l y just a secretary. 11 Q T h e r e is not a n y b o d y that you w o u l d call if he 12 wasn't available, you would have gone to them 13 and expected them to communicate - 14 A N o . 15 Q Okay. O t h e r than yourself, Mr. Call, if you 16 know, has there ever been another employee of 17 The Anchor Packing Company who has been 18 deposed - 19 A Yes . 2 0 Q -- in a s b e s t o s -r e l a t e d l i t i g a t i o n ? Who are 21 those individuals that you know? 22 A Tom Kealey, K -E-A-L-E-Y. 23 Q A n y othe r s ? 24 A No . 2 5 Q And what was Mr. Kealey's position? 7 8 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 A He was a salesman that wor k e d for me in the 2 Boston office. 3 Q Was that in the Boston case that you were 4 deposed in? 5 A Yes . 6 Q Did you at the time or have you since read his 7 deposition? 8 A Yes . 9 Q And by how did you come to be in possessio n 10 of a copy of his deposition? 11 A It was f o r w a r d e d to my offi c e from the 12 attorney. 13 Q Has that b e e n f a i r l y r e c e n t l y ? 14 A That was in 1985. 15 Q Pri o r to t o d ay's d e p o s i t i o n -- I'm sorry. Let 16 me go back. Other than yourself, do you 17 recall in the case where you did t e s t i f y at 18 trial whether any other Anchor Packing Company 19 employees testified in that same trial? 20 A I don't believe there were. 2 1 Q Okay. In the 1993 case in which you 22 testified -- that was Philadelphia, right, 23 that you testified in trial? 24 MR. MAHONEY: A week ago? 25 A Last w e e k . 79 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. 1 2 3A JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 MR. MORRISON: That was - Last w e e k . MR. MAHONEY: Last week. 4Q (By Mr. Morrison) And that's the only time 5 that you have te s t i f i e d at trial? 6 A That's correct. 7Q to today's deposition, sir, did you 8 review any documents to help you prepare for 9 this deposition? 10 A Yes . 11 Q Okay. C o u l d you tell us what those d o c u m e n t s 12 are ? 13 A The p r i o r deposi t i o n . 14 Q Tho s e w o u l d be the four d e p o s i t i o n s that have 15 been produced here today? 16 A In general, yes. 17 Q Did you also take time to r e v i e w the d o c u m e n t s 18 that were attached to them? 19 A Yes . 20 Q Other than those depositions and the 21 attachments to those depositions, did you 22 review any other documents? 23 A The i n f o r m a t i o n p e r t a i n i n g to this case. 24 Q Okay. And what did you -- what did you look 25 at p e r t a i n i n g to this case in p a r t i c u l a r ? 80 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ________ J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 MR. M A H O N E Y : D i s c o v e r y 2 responses. 3 A Yes . 4 MR. MORRISON: May I see 5 those, if those are things that you 6 relied on? 7Q (By Mr. Morrison) I have been shown Def e n d a n t 8 Anchor Packing Company's objections and 9 answers to plaintiff's interrogatories filed 10 in M a y of '93 and o b j e c t i o n s and r e s p o n s e s to 11 pla i n t i f f ' s request for p r o d u c t i o n filed in 12 M ay of '93. Are those d o c u m e n t s that you 13 reviewed in preparation for today's 14 deposition? 15 A Yes, sir. 16 Q O t h e r than these two documents, your 17 depositions and the attachments to those 18 depositions, have you reviewed any another 19 material - 20 A No . 2 1 Q -- in p r e p a r a t i o n for t o d a y ' s d e p o s i t i o n ? 22 A No . ' 23 Q These extra materials that I enumerated 24 sometime earlier in the deposition, did you 25 look at these documents, the MSDS sheets, the 81 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. -------------------- J O H N D. CALL - 12/7 / 9 4 1 list of products, caution labels? 2 A N o , I did n o t . _________ 3 Q Prior to today's deposition, have you ever 4 been asked to review documents on other 5 occasions in preparation for giving testimony 6 on behalf of The Anchor Packing Company? 7 A Yes . 8 Q My questions are all going to go to those 9 instances, okay? Have you ever been shown any 10 documents regarding the Asbestos Textile 11 Institute -- 12 A No . 13 Q -- for y o u r review? 14 A N o . 15 Q A n y d o c u m e n t s c o n c e r n i n g the I n d u s t r i a l 16 Hygiene Foundation? 17 A No, I have not. 18 Q The N a t i o n a l S a f e t y C o u n c i l ? 19 A No . 20 Q Whether in preparation for this deposition or 2 1 at any other time for any other occasion, have 22 you ever had o c c a s i o n to read or even look at 23 documents from or purportedly from the 24 Asbestos Textile Institute? 25 A No . 82 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 Q How about from the National Safety Council? 2 A No . 3 Q And the Industrial Hygiene Foundation? 4 A No. 5 Q To the best of your knowledge, has The Anchor 6 Packing Company ever been a member of the 7 National Safety Council? 8 A No. 9 Q How about the Asbestos Textile Institute? 10 A N o . 11 Q H o w about the I n d u s t r i a l H y g i e n e F o u n d a t i o n ? 12 A N o . 13 Q H o w about the Flu i d S e a l i n g A s s o c i a t i o n ? 14 A Yes, t h e y were - 15 Q A n d - - 16 A - - a m e m b e r of that. 17 Q Do yo u recall a p p r o x i m a t e l y what y e a r s that 18 would have been? 19 A Most of the time of my e m p l o y m e n t . 2 0 Q Were you ever asked on behalf of The Anchor 21 Packing Company to attend the Fluid Sealing 22 Association meetings? 23 A No, I was n e v e r a s k e d and n e v e r attended. 24 Q Do you k n o w w h e t h e r any o t h e r i n d i v i d u a l s w i t h 25 The Anchor Packing Company ever attended 83 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ------------------ JOH N D. CALL - 1 2 / 7 / 9 4 _____________ 1 meetings of the Fluid Sealing Association? 2A I believe just the people from the home office 3 attended those meetings. 4 Q Have you ever seen any d o c u m e n t s -- I'll start 5 with minutes, minutes of any Fluid Sealing 6 Association meetings? 7 A No, I have not. 8 Q Have you ever seen anybody's notes, 9 handwritten or typed, regarding their 10 attendance regarding what was d i s c u s s e d at the 11 Fluid Sealing Association meeting? 12 A No . 13 Q Has a n y t h i n g that has o c c u r r e d at a Flu i d 14 Sealing Association meeting ever been the 15 subject of a meeting between Anchor Packing 16 Company employees? 17 A No . 18 Q P r i o r to 1975, as I u n d e r s t a n d it, yo u have 1 9 indicated that you had no knowledge, nor had 2 0 ever even heard that asbestos might be a 21 h e a l t h hazard; is that c o rrect? 22 A That is correct. 23 Q So again, I can a s s u m e that p r i o r to 1975, no 24 meetings had been held in which you or any of 25 The Anchor Packing Company employees, to your 84 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. __________ __________ J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94____________ 1 knowledge, had attended and was informed of 2 any potential health hazards related to 3 asbestos ? 4 A T h a t 's c o r r e c t . 5 Q Do you kn o w who M a r g a r e t A d a m s is? Is that 6 the same as the Mrs. Adams that we talked 7 about earlier? 8 A I h o n e s t l y n e v e r k n e w her first name. It m ay 9 be the same person. 10 Q Okay. A n d - 11 MR. MAHONEY: She was called 12 Mrs. Adams. 13 A M r s . A d a m s . 14 Q (By Mr. Morrison) Is there any i n d i v i d u a l 15 named John Jack Call? Or is that what you are 16 called? 17 A Jac k is what p e o p l e k n o w me as. 18 Q O k a y . Do you know an individual by the 19 name -- or did you k n o w an i n d i v i d u a l by the 2 0 name of Ralph Lister? 2 1 A I believe he was one of the officers of the 22 company prior to my joining the company. 23 Q Did you know Mr. Joseph Mastin? 24 A Just by name only. 25 Q And who did you know him to be? 85 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 A Treasurer. 2 Q Of Anchor Packing? 3 A Of Anchor Packing Company. 4 Q It's my u n d e r s t a n d i n g that Mr. M a s t i n is 5 deceased. Do you know whether - 6 A I d o n 't k n o w . 7 Q -- that's true ? 8 A I w o u l d imag i n e so. 9 Q How about Mr. Miedema? 10 A M i e d e m a . 11 Q Do you know where he is today? 12 A He's deceased. 13 Q He's d e c e a s e d ? 14 MR. MAHONEY: Heaven, 15 hopefully. He is deceased. 16 Q (By Mr. Morrison) George Miller, do you know 17 that individual? 18 A G e o r g e M i l l e r was the d i s t r i c t m a n a g e r of the 19 Philadelphia district. 2 0 Q An d do you know where Mr. M i l l e r is today? 21 A He is d e c e a s e d also. 22 Q H o w about W i l l i a m M o l n e r ? 23 A Yeah, Bill was a s s i s t a n t m a n a g e r of the 24 Pittsburgh district office when I started with 25 the company. He is now r e t i r e d and resides in 86 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 the Pittsburgh area. 2 Q You would have worked with Mr. Molner? 3 A Yes . 4 Q Do you know an individual by the name of 5 Donald O'Keefe? 6 A N o , I d o n 't . 7 Q How about Bruff Reagan? 8 A I believe he was a district manager of the 9 Chicago district office - 10 Q Is it - 11 A -- at one time d u r i n g m y e m p l o y m e n t . I don't 12 know how long he was t h e r e . 13 Q To your knowledge, was Mr. Reagan a president 14 of The Anchor Packing Company? 15 A I'm not aware of that. 16 Q A n d do you k n o w w h e t h e r Mr. R e a g a n is d e c e a s e d 17 or where he might be today? 18 A I d o n 't k n o w . 19 Q Ho w about D o n a l d Rowe, R-O-W-E, do you kn o w 2 0 M r . Rowe ? 21 A No . 22 Q Ho w about G e orge Scott? 23 A No . 24 MR. MORRISON: Did we get 25 another copy of the duces tecum? 87 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ___________________ JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 MR. MAHONEY: Did you get 2 one ? 3 MS. FERRELL: I guess I 4 didn't b r i n g it to y'all. 5 MR. MORRISON: We'll come 6 back to that, then. Why don't we 7 take about a f i v e - m i n u t e break, if 8 t h a t 's okay? 9 MR. MAHONEY: Sure. 10 ( B r e a k .) 11 MR. MORRISON: Mark this as 12 D e p o s i t i o n E x h i b i t N u m b e r 1. 13 (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit Number 14 1 was marked for identification 15 by the reporter.) 16 Q (By Mr. Morrison) Okay. Mr. Call, I want to 17 talk to you now about the deposition notice 18 and the subpoena duces tecum. And I'll try to 19 go through this as qui c k l y as I can. First of 2 0 all, we asked for somebody who would be the 2 1 most knowledgeable within the company about 22 the current net worth of the defendant. I 23 believe counsel for Anchor Packing Company has 24 already indicated that you would not be that 25 in d i v i d u a l ; is that c orrect? 88 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. __________ ___________ J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94______ 1 A T h a t 's c o r r e c t . 2 Q Do you know of any individual, I understand 3 that is not with the company, but is a former 4 employee of that company, who might have 5 knowledge about what that was in 1 9 9 3 ? 6 A I don't know who it w o u l d be. 1 Q W o u l d Mr. M a s t i n as the t r e a s u r e r -- w o u l d he 8 have been in treasurer in 1993? 9 A Oh, no. 10 Q O k a y . Do you know who the t r e a s u r e r was in 11 1993 ? 12 A I don't believe that there was a tre a s u r e r in 13 1993 . 14 MR. MORRISON: Off the 15 record. 16 (Discussion off the record.) 17 MR. MAHONEY: With respect to 18 the net worth, it's our intent to 19 identify all documents that are 20 subject to production under Texas 2 1 law regarding that issue as part of 22 our response to a request for 23 production. 24 Q (By Mr. Morrison) The second thing that I 25 asked for a person or persons to testify about 89 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 A 13 14 Q 15 16 17 18 19 20 A 21 Q 22 A 23 Q 24 25 JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 today, Mr. Call, was about correspondence, studies, or any writings concerning the feasibility of warnings placed on products. Were you a part of the process whereby warnings first appeared on some or all of Anchor's products in 1975? MR. MAHONEY: Did you hear the question? THE WITNESS: I heard the question. MR. MAHONEY: Okay. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by the process. (By Mr. Morrison) Let me go back and bre a k that down into several questions. First of all, in 1975, you indicated to me that for the first time, some warnings began to appear on or in connection with the sale of some p r o d u c t s ; is that correct? That's correct. Those were asbestos -containing products? That's correct. Did the warning appear in 1975 on all asbestos -containing products which were to be sold by The Anchor Packing Company? 90 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 A The warehouses were instructed to place these 2 lab e l s on all p r o d u c t s g o i n g out -- b e i n g 3 shipped out. 4 Q And that's irrespective of who supplied them 5 to Anchor -- 6 A That's correct. 7 Q -- for sale? 8 A That's correct. 9 Q What is yo u r u n d e r s t a n d i n g of how it came to 10 be that Anchor put warnings on these 11 asbestos -containing products in 1975? 12 A Do you mean the reason that they d e c i d e d to 13 place them on there? 14 Q I'll start w i t h that and see if that will help 15 us get through them. 16 A I was not i n v o l v e d in the p r o c e s s of d e s i g n i n g 17 it or d e c i d i n g what to indicate in a - - in a 18 warning. 19 Q But you have i n d i c a t e d you mig h t kn o w the 20 reason? What was the reason that they were 21 put on there, if you know? 22 A No, I'm indicating that I don't know the 23 reason. 24 Q As a district manager in 1975, what was your 25 u nd erstanding of why now your warehouses were 91 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 to be instructed to put warnings on 2 asbestos -containing products that your office 3 sold? 4 A That the c o m p a n y felt it was n e c e s s a r y to 5 advise customers in that regard. 6 Q And what they were advising them of was 7 potential health hazards and not just the 8 fact that the products contained asbestos, 9 right ? 10 A I b e l i e v e . 11 Q Because - 12 A Yeah, I believe the advice was to c a ution them 13 on breathing the dust from any of those 14 products. 15 Q H o w did you first learn of the d e c i s i o n that 16 warnings would now be placed, in 1975, on ' 17 asbestos -containing products sold by Anchor 18 Packing? 19 A We were a d v i s e d at the d i s t r i c t u p o n r e c e i p t 2 0 of a package of labels that these labels were 2 1 to be applied to the product. 22 Q Prior to the receipt of that set of labels, 23 had anyone c o m m u nicated with you orally or in 24 writing why that process of placing labels was 25 to begin? 92 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 A They did n o t . 2 Q Did you q u e s t i o n it at all, or did you just do 3 it? 4 A We just did i t . 5 Q You never talked to anyone in the home office 6 about why this extra step to be done in your 7 warehouse was going to occur? 8 A N o , I d i d n 't . 9 Q Did you then assume, just on your own by 10 reading that warning, that asbestos could 11 potentially be harmful? 12 A I assumed that you should be careful in using 13 the materials. 14 Q Okay. 15 MR. MORRISON: Go ahead and 16 mark these as the next three. 17 (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit Nos. 18 3, 4, and 5 we r e m a r k e d for 19 20 Q identification by the reporter.) (By Mr. Morrison) Mr. Call, I want to show you 2 1 w h a t ' s b e e n m a r k e d as Call E x h i b i t s 3, 4, and 22 5. These were p r o v i d e d to me this m o r n i n g as 23 a part of the subpoena duces tecum in this 24 case. Can you tell me if any one of those 25 three d o c u m e n t s is the label that you were 93 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 p r o v i d e d as a district man a g e r in 1975 to 2 begin to place on asbestos -containing 3 products ? 4 A It was e i t h e r N u m b e r 3 or N u m b e r 4. It was 5 not N u m b e r 5. 6 Q Could you read for the jury the warning that 7 a p p e a r s on Call E x h i b i t N u m b e r 3? 8A It s a y s : 9 Caution, contains asbestos fibers. 10 Avoid creating dust. Breathing 11 asbestos dust may cause serious 12 bodily harm. 13 Q Does it also say c a n c e r and s e rious b o d i l y 14 harm, or just serious bodily harm? 15 A S e r i o u s b o d i l y harm. 16 Q C o u l d yo u read for the jury Call E x h i b i t 17 Number 4's warning? 18 A It s t a t e s : 19 Caution, this product contains 2 0 asbestos fibers. Persons handling 21 this product should avoid creating 22 dust. Breathing asbestos dust may 23 cause cancer or other serious and 24 fatal bodily harm. 25 Q Okay. You can't tell us s p e c i f i c a l l y w h ich 94 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ________ ____________ JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94_____________ 1 one of those was the first label that you were 2 instructed to put on asbestos -containing 3 products ? 4 A I don't recall which one we got first. 5 Q It was e i t h e r 3 or 4? 6 A Yes . 7 Q Number 5 that we didn't read out loud, do you 8 recall when or if that label was ever used by 9 you in your district? 10 A That's a more recent style of branding. 11 Q Do you know -- 12 A On the A n c h o r name and appears to me to have 13 been a label placed on a piece of gasket 14 sheet, probably in the more recent years. 15 Q S t a r t i n g in 1975, was the warning, w h e t h e r it 16 be N u m b e r 3 or N u m b e r 4, was it p l a c e d on the 17 packaging or just on the product itself 18 generally? 19 A In the case of b r a i d e d packing, it w o u l d be 2 0 placed on the package. In the case of gasket 2 1 mater i a l , it w o u l d have b e e n p l a c e d on the 22 sheet of gasket material. 23 Q When you say that, are you talking about 24 compressed gasket sheet? 25 A C o m p r e s s e d gasket sheet. 95 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 Q In 1975 when you were first given these 2 warnings for your district to begin to place 3 on asbestos -containing products, who was the 4 primary supplier of those asbestos -containing 5 products? 6 A R/M. 7 Q Could you estimate for the jury approximately 8 what percentage of the asbestos -containing 9 products sold by The Anch o r Packing Company in 10 1975 were supplied by R a y bestos as opp o s e d to 11 other suppliers? 12 A The m a j o r i t y of our p r o d u c t s came from them. 13 Q Are we t a l k i n g the m a j o r i t y as in a litt l e bit 14 more than half or the vast majority? 15 A I w o u l d say s e v e n t y - f i v e percent. 16 Q Okay. P r i o r to 1975, if you know, had you 17 seen any warnings placed on 18 asbestos -containing products prior to the time 19 they got to your warehouse? 20 A No, I did not. 21 Q As we sit here today, are you aware from 22 whatever source of whether anybody else had 23 p l a c e d w a r n i n g s on t h e i r p r o d u c t s -- and by 24 a n y b o d y else, I m e a n s u p p l i e r s -- to The 25 Anchor Packing Company? 96 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 MR. MAHONEY: Prior to Anchor 2 d o i n g it in '75 ? 3Q (By Mr. Morrison) Prior to A n c h o r d o i n g it in 4 '75 . 5 A I did not see any. 6 Q Okay. Were you aware in 1975 at the time that 7 Anchor began to put warnings on the products 8 they sold or prior to that time, that any 9 other company selling anywhere in the United 10 States asbestos -containing products had begun 11 to place warnings on their products? 12 A No, I was not aware of that. 13 Q Do you know if Ray b e s t o s M a n h a t t a n had 14 anything to do with Anchor beginning to place 15 w a r n i n g s on the p r o d u c t s it sold? 16 A I d o n 't k n o w . ' 17 Q W i t h r e g a r d to c o m p r e s s e d g a sket sheets sold 18 by Anchor in 1975 and containing asbestos, 19 they w o u l d have c a r ried this warning; is that 20 correct ? 2 1 MR. MAHONEY: When you say 22 this warning, are you referring to 23 E x h i b i t 3 or 4? 24 Q (By Mr. Morrison) I'm sorry, E x h i b i t 3, I'm 25 sorry, 3 or 4, w h i c h e v e r one. 97 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ------------- -------- JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 _________ 1 A Prior to 1975? 2 Q No, sir. S t a r t i n g in '75, a n y t h i n g sold 3 thereafter and until such time as the warning 4 changed, whenever that might have been, would 5 have carried either warning Number 3 or 6 w a r n i n g Num b e r 4 if they c o n t a i n e d asbestos? 7 And I'm talking about compressed gasket 8 sheets. 9 A That's correct. 10 Q A n d these warnings, b o t h 3 and 4 -- and y o u ' r e 11 welcome to look at them. I don't have another 12 copy, but we can share them if you n e e d to. 13 B o t h of them say avo i d c r e a t i n g dust; is that 14 correct ? 15 A T h a t ' s correct. 16 Q Ho w do you go about a v o i d i n g c r e a t i n g dust 17 when you use compressed asbestos sheets? 18 A- You a v o i d c u t t i n g it w i t h a saw or a n y t h i n g 19 that would abrade the p r o d u c t . 2 0 Q What would be the proper way to cut the 2 1 product so as to avoid creating dust? 22 A W i t h a sharp blade. 23 Q And were you aware of that fact in 1975? 24 A Yes . 25 Q Did you know in 1975 when this warning first 98 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 went on p r o d u c t s how much dust it w o uld take 2 b e f o r e it w o u l d cause the s e rious b o d i l y har m 3 or the fatal bodily injury that these two 4 warnings talk about? 5 A No, I had no knowledge of that. 6 Q Did you, yourself, do any p e r s o n a l i n q u i r y as 7 a district manager, either within your company 8 or outside your company, to ascertain for 9 yourself and your employees and your customers 10 how m u c h dust it w o u l d take to cause this 11 bodily injury? 12 A No, we did not b e c a u s e we d i d n ' t c r e a t e any 13 dust . 14 Q But you r e c o g n i z e d that if the g a s k e t s that 15 Anchor Packing sold are cut in certain manners 16 out in the field, dust could be created, 17 correct ? 18 A A p p a r e n t l y . 19 Q A n d you k n e w that in 1975, right? 2 0 A That's correct. 21 Q In 1975, wi t h that k n o w l e d g e that if cut 22 improperly and dust could be created, did you, 23 yourself, go about doing any kind of 24 investigation, either within your own company 25 or outside your company, ascertain for 99 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 yourself, your employees, and your customers 2 how much dust was required to cause the 3 serious bodily harm or the fatal bodily harm 4 that are talked about in Call Exhibits 3 and 5 4 ? 6 A N o , I did n o t . 7 Q Why not? 8 A Didn ' t feel it was n ecessary. We felt it was 9 a safe product. 10 Q A n d did y ou d i s c u s s that w i t h a n y b o d y w i t h i n 11 the c o m p a n y toa s c e r t a i n for y o u r s e l f that it 12 was a safe product? Or did you just assume 13 that and go on about your job? 14 A I assumed that on my own. 15 Q And, of course, by 1975, you were a d i s t r i c t 16 manager of a sales office, correct? 17 A That is correct. 18 Q So w i t h i n that district, y ou wer e the n u m b e r 19 one man? 2 0 A That's correct. 21 Q Di d you ever get on the p h o n e or in p e r s o n 22 communicate with any of the other district 23 managers regarding their i n t e r p r e t a t i o n of 24 these warnings, w h e t h e r it be E x h i b i t N u m b e r 3 2 5 or E x h i b i t N u m b e r 4? 100 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 A Not that I recall. 2 Q Did you ever do any kind of investigation on 3 your own, within the company or outside the 4 company, to ascertain how -- since you knew 5 that people in the field could cut the gasket 6 sheets so as to create some dust, as to what 7 kind of r e s p i r a t o r y protection, if any, could 8 prevent the serious bodily harm and fatal 9 bodily harm that are mentioned on Exhibits 3 10 and 4 ? 11 MR. MAHONEY: I'm - 12 A No . 13 MR. MAHONEY: I'm going to 14 object to form. Go ahead. 15 A No . 16 Q (By Mr. Morrison) Prior to 1975, had you ever 17 had any personal communications, whether they 18 be written or oral, with anybody with 19 Raybestos Manhattan? 2 0 A Yes . 2 1 Q And do you recall who that individual or who 22 those individuals would have been? 23 A T h e y w o u l d have bee n p e o p l e at the sales 24 office, at the R a y bestos office in Manheim, 25 Pennsylvania. 101 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. __________________ JOH N D. CALL - 1 2 / 7 / 9 4 ________________ 1 Q Do you recall when, approximately, would have 2 been the first time that you would have talked 3 to somebody in the Raybestos sales office? 4 A 1974. 5 Q And why does that year stick out in your mind? 6A It's when I became a manager. 7 Q Did anybody with Raybestos Manhattan ever 8 communicate to you any fears or knowledge 9 regarding potential hazards related to 10 expo s u r e to asbestos, if any? 11 A Not that I recall. 12 Q A f t e r 1975 and the p l a c e m e n t of the warnings, 13 which are either Call Exhibit Number 3 or Call 14 E x h i b i t N u m b e r 4, did you ever have any 15 communications with Raybestos Manhattan 16 personnel? ' 17 A Yes. 18 Q W o u l d those be the same sales o f f i c e type 19 personnel ? 20 A T h a t ' s correct. 2 1 Q At any time during your tenure with Anchor or 22 since that has ceased, have you ever had 23 communicated to you, whether in writing or 24 orally, any knowledge or allegation possessed 2 5 by a Raybestos Manhattan employee about the 102 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 potential health hazards of asbestos exposure, 2 if any? 3 A No. 4 Q To your knowledge, has any other person with 5 The Anchor Packing Company, during any time 6 that you have been associated with the company 7 or even before, had communication with 8 Raybestos Manhattan personnel in which 9 c o n c e r n s about the p o s s i b i l i t y of, or 10 knowledge concerning potential health hazards 11 of a s b e s t o s -c o n t a i n i n g products, if any, were 12 communicated? 13 A Not to my knowledge. 14 Q It's y o u r u n d e r s t a n d i n g , Mr. Call, that at 15 some time subsequent to 1975, Call Exhibit 16 Number 5 was a warning that was placed on some 17 Anchor asbestos -containing products? 18 A Yes. 19 Q Do you k n o w why the r e v i s i o n was made from 2 0 e i t h e r the N u m b e r 3 -- Call E x h i b i t N u m b e r 3 21 or Call Exhibit Number 4 to Call Exhibit 22 Number 5 in the warning? 23 MR. MAHONEY: Can I see 4 24 real quick? 25 MR. MORRISON: Sure. 103 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Q 11 12 13 14 A 15 Q 16 17 18 19 2 0 21 22 23 A 24 Q 25 J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 MR. MAHONEY: I'm going to object to the extent - same ? MR. MORRISON: It's the MR. MAHONEY: -- that it assumes there is a r e v i s i o n b e t w e e n 5 and 4. MR. MORRISON: I'm sorry. I'm reading upside down. (By Mr. Morrison) Are those two w a r n i n g s in Exhibit 4 and Exhibit 5 the same thing, other than the appearance of a different logo on N u m b e r 5? Yes, they appear to be. Okay. If o t her e v i d e n c e in this case shows that Exhibit 3 and Exhibit 4 were warnings that were placed on asbestos -containing p r o d u c t s sold by A n c h o r at dif f e r e n t times, do you have any personal knowledge or even anything that you have overheard about why a transition was made from one warning to the other? N o , I do n o t . You w o uld agree with me, sir, that as a company who sells products, a part of your CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, 104 INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 0 2 1 22 23 24 25 -------------- -------J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94_________ r e s p o n s i b i l i t y to your c u stomers is to p r ovide them with a quality product, wouldn't you? A That's correct. Q A n d part of p r o v i d i n g a q u a l i t y p r o d u c t is p r o v i d i n g a product w h ich pe r f o r m s as anticipated in the field? A Right. Q For example, a gasket should provide a proper seal ? A That's correct. Q Another part of providing a good, quality product would also be to provide a product which did not cause harm to the end user? You would agree with that, wouldn't you? A Yes, sir. Q You would agree with me that The Anchor Packing Company, in its duty to provide a good, q u a l i t y product, if it kn e w about p o t e ntial health hazards related to the use of its products, had a duty to communicate those to the people buying its products, didn't it? MR. MAHONEY: I want the record to show an objection. I think the q u e s t i o n is improper, lacks foundation. I think it calls 1 0'5 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ____________________JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94_______________ 1 for the witness to give a legal 2 c o n c l u s i o n and I think it a s s u m e s 3 facts not in evidence. Over that 4 o bjection, you can a n s w e r it. 5A I lost it . 6Q (By Mr. Morrison) I did too. The e a siest 7 t h i n g is to have her read it back. 8 (The Reporter read back the 9 q u e s t i o n .) 10 A Yes. 11 Q (By Mr. Morrison) You w o u l d agree w i t h me, 12 sir, that generally for c o m m u n ication to be 13 effective, just like your answers and my 14 questions today, we have to understand one 15 another, correct? 16 A T h a t ' s correct. 17 Q A n d in i n s t a n c e s like t o d a y ' s d e p o s i t i o n whe r e 18 you haven't u n d e r s t o o d me, you did let me know 19 or will let me know and I rephrase my 2 0 q u e s t i o n s to you, don't I? 21 A That's correct. 22 Q And that's because, as we c o m m u n i c a t e D at the 23 beginning, you may use some terminology based 24 on your manufacturing or sales experience that 2 5 I'm not familiar with, right? 106 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ____________________JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94________________ 1 A Right. 2 Q You also recognize, don't you, sir, that the 3 people who are using the products your company 4 sold would have varying degrees of knowledge 5 about the uses of industrial packings and 6 gaskets ? 7 MR. MAHONEY: I'm going to 8 object. I think there is no 9 foundation for that, but go ahead. 10 A Yes, I b e l i e v e that the y had v a r y i n g d e g r e e s 11 of knowledge of the use of the p r o d u c t . 12 Q (By Mr. Morrison) You w o uld also agree w i t h me 13 that in all probability, and certainly, your 14 exp e c t a t i o n would have been as a s a l e s p e r s o n 15 and a district manager in the years that you 16 were in those particular jobs for The Anchor' 17 Packing Company, that the level of 18 intelligence in the people using your products 19 would range the entire spectrum? 20 MR. MAHONEY: I'm going to 21 object as well, again, no 22 foundation. Object to form as 23 well. Go a h e a d . 24 A I w o u l d say it p r o b a b l y did. 25 Q (By Mr. Morrison) There were quite a few 107 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 people out there using your gaskets and 2 packings that didn't have college educations, 3 weren't there? 4 A There p r o b a b l y were, but it didn't r e q u i r e a 5 college education to use our product. 6 Q Didn't even require a high school e d u c ation to 7 use this product, did it? 8 MR. MAHONEY: O b j e c t i o n to 9 form. Go ahead. 10 A I d o n 't k n o w . 11 Q (By Mr. Morrison) Is there a n y t h i n g you knew 12 about it once you went t h r o u g h G a r l o c k ' s 13 special training in 1988, was there anything 14 about your high school education that helped 15 you do it? 16 A Not me p e r s o n a l l y . I don't b e l i e v e -- I don't 17 b e l i e v e it w o u l d have b e e n a h i n d r a n c e to 18 anybody. 19 Q The next item on Call E x h i b i t N u m b e r 1, the 2 0 n o t i c e of deposi t i o n , was -- actually, I'll 2 1 tell you what. We did number three. Let's go 22 back to number two, was advertising literature 23 for defendant's asbestos products utilized 24 from '49 t h r o u g h '57. My u n d e r s t a n d i n g is 25 that somewhere in the documents that are 108 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 a t t a c h e d to your depositions, there is a 2 catalog. Is that y o u r u n d e r s t a n d i n g ? 3 A That's correct. 4 Q Do you know what year -- 5 MR. MORRISON: And let's have 6 this marked. 7 (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit Number 8 6 was marked for identification 9 by the reporter.) 10 Q (By Mr. Morrison) Mr. Call, if I could ask you 11 to look at Exhibit N u m b e r 6 and just tell us, 12 first, if you rec o g n i z e what that is? 13 A It a p p e a r s to be a cop y of some p a g e s of a 14 catalog. 15 Q W o u l d you look for me at the last couple of 16 pages and make sure that I have not attached 17 anything to that that would not be a part of 18 that catalog? 19 A This last sheet is just a sin g l e sheet 20 prod u c e d as a flier. It's a separate item 21 from the catalog. 22 Q O k a y . So -- 23 A In g e n e r a l . 24 Q That page - 25 A The first few pages, I don't believe, are 109 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 catalog items. 2 Q Okay. 3 A I believe these are pictures from some other 4 5 MR. MAHONEY: From some other 6 exhibit. 7 A From some other source. 8Q (By Mr. Morrison) W o uld you do me this favor? 9 W o u l d you separate out e v e r y t h i n g that, as 10 best you can tell, does not properly belong 11 w i t h that -- what I want to end up w i t h as 12 Exhibit Nu m b e r 6 is a catalog. . 13 A Well, tha t ' s a sheet. This is all part of the 14 catalog. Yeah, this is the catalog. 15 Q Okay. W e ' l l have her r e - m a r k that in just a 16 m o m e n t . Could you look at the Bates number on 17 the first page that you feel is a c t u a l l y part 18 of the catalog? 19 A AO 5 3 3. 2 0 Q A n d the last page that you are c o m f o r t a b l e is 21 part of that same catalog? 22 A A06 06. 23 Q Okay. Can you look at what we are going to 24 r e - m a r k as E x h i b i t N u m b e r 6 now and tell us if 25 there is anyt h i n g about that c a t a l o g w h i c h 110 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 w o u l d help you i d e n t i f y the y e a r in w h i c h it 2 was published? 3A I can't i d e n t i f y the ye a r it was p ublished. 4 It was r e c e i v e d in s o m e b o d y ' s c e n t r a l records, 5 October of 1988. 6 Q Okay. 7 A But -- 8 MR. MAHONEY: I can represent 9 to counsel that that is a Central 10 Records Depository relating to 11 asbestos litigation pending in 12 M a d i s o n County, Illinois, and is 13 nothing to do with the regular 14 business of Anchor Packing Company. 15 Q (By Mr. Morrison) There is n o t h i n g d i s t i n c t 16 about that catalog that would help you place 17 it in terms of w h e n it was a c a t a l o g u t i l i z e d 18 by Anchor Packing? 19 A No . 2 0 MR. MORRISON: Just for the 2 1 record and not necessarily a 22 question to you, Mr. Call, but just 23 for the record, my u n d e r s t a n d i n g is 24 that catalogs from 1952 and 1958 25 have been located and will be 111 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 Q 17 18 19 2 0 21 22 23 24 A 25 JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 p r o v i d e d at a later date? MR. MAHONEY: That's my understanding. My understanding is -- I just d e v e l o p e d that u n d e r s t a n d i n g today, is that there is a catalog from 1952 and that that c a t a l o g will be p r o d u c e d b e c a u s e it is responsive to the terms of the request, but it is not here today. MR. MORRISON: Okay. MR. MAHONEY: And I have no knowledge as to whether this Exhibit 6 we are l o o k i n g at is, in fact, the 1952 catalog or from a different year . (By Mr. Morrison) Mr. Call, from 1967 to 1993, did the product line offered by Garlock - strike that. From 1967 until the time that the sale of some asbestos -containing products ceased, did the product line offered by Anchor stay pretty consistent? MR. MAHONEY: O b j e c t i o n to form, but go ahead. Yes. The products remained the same. However, newer products were being marketed as 112 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INCH JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 the years went by. There were more and more 2 synthetics being made available. 3 MR. MORRISON: And, again, 4 just for the record, as I mentioned 5 off the record, I do object to the 6 nonprod uction of the 1952 catalog. 7 I u n d e r s t a n d that it may have just 8 been located today. But in the 1992 9 deposition, it was at least 10 identified. And, of course, my 11 questions are hampered by the fact 12 that I am not looking at that 13 deposition today. So I apologize to 14 you, Mr. Call, but I don't have a 15 catalog from the 1950's that I had 16 asked for today so that I could ask 17 you questions about products that 18 are pertinent to this case. 19 Q (By Mr. Morrison) But if I were to show you a 2 0 1939 c a t a l o g -- and I will -- can yo u look at 2 1 that and tell me how much of the product line 22 changed from that catalog until 1967 when you 23 first came to the company? 24 A Possibly. 2 5 MR. MORRISON: Okay. Let's 113 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, R ECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ____________________JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94_______________ 1 attempt that. First, let's go ahead 2 and mark as Exhibit 6 this first 3 catalog. 4 (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit Nos. 5 6 and 7 were marked for 6 identification by the reporter.) 7Q (By Mr. Morrison) Mr. Call, I want to show you 8 what's been marked as Call Exhibit Number 7 9 and ask you, first of all, if you feel 10 comfortable that all the pages I have enclosed 11 are part of a catalog from Anchor Packing? 12 A It a p p e a r s to be a catalog. 13 Q Okay. Is there a n y t h i n g about that catalog, 14 sir, that w o u l d help you i d e n t i f y the date of 15 p u blication of that catalog? 16 A The date on the first page. 17 Q Is w h a t , sir? 18 A 1908-1939. 19 Q B a s e d on that and y o u r f a m i l i a r i t y w i t h 20 publications put out by Anchor Packing, would 21 it be fair, b a s e d on that e x p e r ience, to 22 assume that this is a 1939 p u b l i c a t i o n ? 23 A Yes . 24 Q Let me ask you to look at the f o u r t h page of 25 that d o c u m e n t where it says at the top, 114 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ____________________JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94________________ 1 that we are l o o k i n g at w h e r e it talks about 2 mode r n m a n u f a cturing? And look at the last 3 full sentence in the first column and read 4 along w i t h me and tell me if I read this 5 incorrectly. 6 We are constantly in touch with 7 the developments of the new synthetic 8 compounds, and if any show pro m i s e of 9 improving packings, we develop in our 10 laboratories our own compound 11 formulae. 12 Did I read that correctly, sir? 13 A Y e s , you d i d . 14 Q Did Anchor, indeed, have laboratories in 1939, 15 to the best of your knowledge? 16 A Not to the best of my k n owledge. 17 Q To the best of your knowledge, has A n c h o r ever 18 had laboratories? 19 A No . 20 Q Has it ever d e v e l o p e d p r o d u c t s ? 21 A N o . 22 Q Has it ever d e v e l o p e d f o r m u l a e for p r o d u c t s ? 23 A No . 24 Q A n d that c o n t i n u e s to rea d -- I g u e s s t h a t ' s a 25 comma r a t h e r than a p e r i o d -- c o n t i n u e s on the 116 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 second paragraph and say s : 2 And incorporate into our products 3 such of them as offer improvement 4 and advantage. 5 Did I read that correctly? 6 A That's correct. 7 Q Did Anchor at any time in its h i story 8 incorporate advancements into its own products 9 as a part of the manufacture of a product? 10 A O n l y as m a n u f a c t u r e d by other people. 11 Q Okay. Do you have any k n o w l e d g e as to w h e t h e r 12 Anchor, in its laboratories or anywhere else, 13 formulated formula or improvements for 14 products and communicated those to Raybestos 15 M a n h a t t a n or Garlock or any other supplier of 16 products? ' 17 A No . 18 Q Y ou don't have any k n o w l e d g e or it didn ' t 19 occur, sir, or both? 2 0 A I have no knowledge of any such occurrence. 2 1 Q On the next page, which also starts out 22 manufacturing and service facilities, in 1939 23 or at any time that you have been with 24 Garlock, has it ever had a m a n u f a c t u r i n g 25 facility? 117 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. __________________ JOHN D. CALL - 12/7/94 ____________ 1 MR. MAHONEY: You mean 2 Anchor? 3 A Anchor. 4 Q (By Mr. Morrison) Anchor? 5 A No, we have not. 6 Q A n d I assume, sir, that this w h o l e c a t a l o g is 7 devoted to Anchor, isn't it? 8 A That's correct. 9 Q On that pag e -- I can't ma k e out the 10 p i c t u r e s -- but the c a p t i o n u n d e r n e a t h the 11 first one says corner of the gasket 12 department. Did the warehouses that you were 13 the district manager in have gasket 14 departments ? 15 A Yes . 16 Q The next p i c t u r e is the b a t t e r y p r e c i s i o n 17 molding presses. Did the warehouses that you 18 worked in have battery precision molding 19 presses? 2 0 A No . 2 1 Q It also shows g a s k e t m a c h i n e s . Yo u ha d those 22 in your warehouses, right? 23 A Yes . 24 Q Did y o u r w a r e h o u s e s -- and a n y t i m e I say your, 25 I'm talking about Anchor Packing. Did your 118 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, R ECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 warehouses have high pressure packing 2 departments ? 3 A No. 4 Q On the next page, it shows a flax b r a i d i n g 5 department. Was that something on page 301 6 that was a part of The Anchor Packing Company, 7 to your knowledge? 8 A No. 9 Q Right b e l o w the flax braiding, there is a 10 picture, although I can't make out the 11 picture, the caption says department for the 12 m a nufacturin g of spiral and coil packings. 13 Did any such department exist within Anchor 14 Packing? 15 A No . 16 Q Rig h t u n d e r n e a t h that, the next p i c t u r e w h i c h 17 I can't make out has a caption that says small 18 ring forming department. Did Anchor ever have 19 such a department? 20 A No . 2 1 Q Right across from that, there's a picture that 22 says b a ttery of braid i n g d e p a r t m e n t . A l t h o u gh 23 I can't make out the picture, that's the 24 caption. Did Anchor ever have such a 25 department ? 119 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 A No . 2 Q My pages aren't numbered. Are yours? 3 A They're numbered at the top. Mine are 4 numbered at the top. 5 Q Okay. S o m e w h e r e -- and are y o u r p a g e n u m b e r s 6 somewhere in the three hundreds? 7 A Yes . 8 Q My pages cease to be numbered. But if you can 9 look through, it's about twenty pages back, 10 there's a page where the heading says asbestos 11 w i c k and rope. In the index, it shows it 12 might be page 328. 13 A I lose t h a t . 14 Q Yes . 15 A I lose that n u m b e r wh e n I get ba c k there. 16 Here it i s . 17 Q Let me ask you first w i t h o u t r e f e r e n c e to this 18 page, if you know, in the '50's what type of 19 asbestos fibers were contained in the 20 asbestos -containing products that Anchor was 21 selling? 22 A We r e f e r r e d to it as w h i t e asbestos, 23 t e c h n i c a l l y known as Chrysotile asbestos. 24 Q Was there also a blue asbestos contained in 2 5 some of the asbestos -containing p r o d u c t s - - 120 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ____________________ JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94______________ 1 A Yes . 2 Q -- sold in the 1950's? 3 A Right. 4 Q And what type of asbestos, if you know, was 5 the blue asbestos? 6 A The Crocidolite. 7 Q On that page that is h e a d e d a s b e s t o s w i c k and 8 rope, I would like to draw your attention down 9 to the last couple of paragraphs there on that 10 page. And the next to the last one, ifyou 11 w o u l d re a d w i t h me and tell me ifI read it 12 incorrectly, it says: 13 Blue asbestos is useful for c e r t a i n 14 acid work, but it must be b o r n e in m i n d 15 that it is h i g h l y a b r a s i v e and s h o u l d be 16 used only on special hard metal alloys 17 when used on moving parts. 18 Did I read that correctly, sir? 19 A T h a t ' s correct. 2 0 Q Is that a r e c o m m e n d a t i o n that was made - 21 where did A n c h o r get that paragraph, if you 22 know, to put in its catalog? 23 A Most p r o b a b l y from the m a n u f a c t u r e r - 24 Q Okay. 25 A -- of the product. 121 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ___________________ JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94________________ 1 Q Is there any in d i c a t i o n to you, sir, on that 2 page, as you look at it, that i n d i c a t e s to you 3 as a reader that that recommendation, that 4 instruction, that information comes from 5 anywhere other than Anchor? 6 A No . 7 Q That would be true of the entire catalog, 8 w o u l d n ' t it, sir? 9 A T h a t 's t r u e . 10 Q On the very next page, whi c h mine shows at the 11 top a heading that says braided packing for 12 ac i d services. Is that yours? 13 A I have t h a t . 14 Q In that first full p a r a g r a p h , it talks about 15 in the second sentence: 16 This p a c k i n g is useful in c e rtain 17 acid work, such as valves expansion 18 joints and shafts, and in oil 19 refineries where acid or alkali 2 0 combinations are used which might 21 rapidly destroy the white or Chrysotile 22 fiber. 23 Did I read that correctly? 24 A T h a t ' s correct. 25 Q Would that, likewise, be a recommendation -- 122 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 as far as the reader of this would be, that's 2 a r e c o m m e n d a t i o n of Anchor, isn't it? 3 A Yes . 4 Q Was that your experience as a salesman, that 5 this particular product was well suited for 6 use in oil refineries? Or did you ever sell 7 that product? 8 A My personal experience was not involved with 9 the blue asbestos. 10 Q On the next page, Mr. Call, w h i c h is he a d e d in 11 my cop y flax p a c k i n g s -- are you on the same 12 page ? 13 A I have i t . 14 Q Di d A n c h o r P a c k i n g in the 1950's sell flax 15 packings ? 16 A Yes . 17 Q A n d that w o u l d be an a l t e r n a t e p r o d u c t to 18 asbestos -containing packings, right? 19 MR. MAHONEY: O b j e c t i o n to 20 form. A n s w e r if you can. 21 A It w o u l d be a n o t h e r product. It w o u l d n ' t be 22 recommended for the same type of applications 23 as asbestos packings. Flax packing was 24 u s e d -- up until this day. 25 Q (By Mr. Morrison) Were you f a m i l i a r or are you 123 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 familiar with the brand name Tauril, spelled 2 T-A-U-R-I-L? 3 A Yes . 4 Q Can you describe for the jury generally what 5 that p r o d u c t line -- w h a t ' s the s i g n i f i c a n c e 6 of the name Tauril? 7 A That's a premium grade of compressed gasket 8 sheet. 9 Q Who supplied Tauril, do you know, to Anchor? 10 A R/ M s u p p l i e d it to us. 11 Q You and I talked a little bit earlier about 12 heat-holding tape. That's the next page that 13 I want to discuss with you. And in my copy, 14 it's probably about twenty pages from the 15 back. A n d it says at the top, h e a t - h o l d 16 tape . 17 A I can't seem to put my f i n g e r on it. 18 Q It's - 19 A I k n o w it's right a r o u n d here. 2 0 Q It's after the hose couplings and clamps. 2 1 A Oh, way back there. 22 Q It's after the gauge glasses, I believe. 23 A A f t e r that ? 24 Q A b o u t five pages a f ter that. 25 A Oh, yeah. 124 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 Q Got it? 2 A Right. 3 Q The heat-hold tape was an asbestos pipe 4 insulation? 5 A Yes . 6 Q And was that sold in the '50's also? 7 MR. MAHONEY: O b j e c t i o n to 8 the extent the q u e s t i o n a s s u m e s it 9 was sold ever. It's listed in the 10 catalog. 11 Q (By Mr. Morrison) Did - 12 MR. MAHONEY: If you k n o w 13 w h e t h e r it was sold in the ' 5 0 ' s, 14 proceed to answer. 15 A I d o n 't k n o w . 16 Q (By Mr. Morrison) Well, was it o f f e r e d for 17 sale in 1939? 18 A Yes . 19 Q To y o u r k nowledge, was it o f f e r e d for sale in 20 the 1950's? 2 1 A I w o u l d have to a s sume it was. 22 Q Certainly, at some p e r i o d after 1967 w h e n you 23 came to the company, you indicated earlier in 24 the b e g i n n i n g of the d e p o s i t i o n that it was 2 5 something that you had offered for sale? 125 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. 1 A Right. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 2 Q Do you have any r e a s o n to b e l i e v e it was sold 3 for a while and then it wasn't o f f e r e d for 4 sale and then it came back? 5 A No. 6 Q And that was a product, as indicated on that 7 page that we're looking at that's headed 8 h e a t - h o l d tape, that is e s p e c i a l l y r e c o m m e n d e d 9 for pi p e i n s u l a t i o n on l o c o m o t i v e s , isn't it, 10 sir? 11 A Y e s , s i r . 12 Q Did you ever sell any of that product? 13 A I can't recall that we did. 14 Q A n d that is a product, as i n d i c a t e d in the 15 last couple of full sentences, that's easily 16 applied to either straight or to curved 17 pipes ? 18 A Ye s . 19 Q Okay. The v e r y next page, Mr. Call, just to 20 p i c k a page out of here, it talks about 21 Ankorite waterproof and electrical insulating 22 tape. 23 A Yes . 24 Q Is there a n y t h i n g about the b r a n d name 2 5 Ankorite that helps you know who supplied that 126 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 to A n c hor? Or is that an A n c h o r b r a n d name? 2 A That's an Anch o r brand name that we applied to 3 most all products. 4 Q That was my next question. W o u l d it be fair 5 to say that at least for the m a j o r i t y of the 6 asbestos -containing products that might have 1 been sold in the 1950's, Anchor would have 8 u s e d a name it came up with, r a t h e r than u s i n g 9 the name that the supplier, w h e t h e r it be 10 Raybestos or somebody else, had given that 11 product ? 12 A We always used our own brand name or our own 13 style number. 14 Q And do you know the significance of the fact 15 that almo s t -- that a s i g n i f i c a n t n u m b e r of 16 these products begin with the prefix, A-N-K, 17 A n k o t a l l i c , A n k o r i t e ? Is that, to the best of 18 your knowledge, to give some reference to the 19 name of the company, Anchor Packing? 2 0 A That's correct. 2 1 Q Just, if you would, keep that Exhibit N u m b e r 7 2 2 there, Mr. Call. I might come back to that. 23 MR. M O R R I S O N : 8 and 9, 24 Lo is . 25 (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit Nos. . 127 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 8 and 9 were marked for 2 identification by the reporter.) 3Q (By Mr. Morrison) Mr. Call, I want to show you 4 what's been marked as Exhibits 8 and 9 to your 5 d e p o s i t i o n and ask you if you have ever seen 6 those documents or any documents similar to 7 them. 8 A N o , I have n o t . 9 Q Are you familiar generally with the 10 r e g i s t e r i n g of b r a n d nam e s -- o b t a i n i n g a 11 trademark for a particular name? 12 A I'm not familiar with the p rocess at all. 13 Q The name Anklon, I guess, A - N - K - L - O - N , on one 14 of those two exhibits, is that a name that was 15 given to asbestos -containing products sold by 16 Anchor Packing? 17 A No, that was a T e f l o n product. 18 Q It did not c o n t a i n a s b e s t o s ? 19 A T h a t ' s correct. 20 Q How about the Ankotallic in the other exhibit 21 that I've shown you? 22 A That was a metallic gasket that could have 23 contained asbestos. 24 Q Is it y o u r u n d e r s t a n d i n g that Ankorite, 2 5 Anklon, Ankotallic generally were names that 128 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 were specific to products sold by Anchor 2 Packing? 3 A That's correct. 4 Q And Anchor Packing did not want those products 5 sold by anybody else? 6 A That is correct. 7 Q Because they wanted those products to be 8 a s s o c i a t e d with their com p a n y and the level of 9 service they thought they were providing to 10 the industrial community? 11 A That is correct. 12 Q L o o k i n g bac k to E x h i b i t N u m b e r 7, if you nee d 13 to - - 14 MR. MAHONEY: That's the 15 catalog. 16 Q (By Mr. Morrison) Right, or if you just know 17 from your personal experience, did Anchor 18 g e n e r a l l y include at any time in the doc u m e n t s 19 you have reviewed from prior to your time or 2 0 since your time, from your personal knowledge, 2 1 anything in their catalogs to indicate that 22 the products being sold by Anchor Packing were 23 manufactured by somebody else? 24 A I don't b e l i e v e so. 25 Q I'm goi n g back now, Mr. Call, to our Exhibit 12 9 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8A 9Q 10 11 12 A 13 Q 14 15 A 16 Q 17 18 19 20 21 A 22 23 24 25 Q JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 N u m b e r 1, w h i c h is our list of thi n g s we have been talking about. Other than the catalog that is included and we looked at as Exhibit N u m b e r 6, the date of w h i c h we d i d n ' t know, have you brought with you any other advertising literature today to this deposition? N o , I h a v e n 't . W h e n did you first see Call E x h i b i t N u m b e r 1? Or have you ever seen it p r ior to the time I ha n d e d it to you? Yesterday. A n d y e s t e r d a y w h e n yo u saw it, yo u wer e in Houston? Yes . You had not been p r o v i d e d a copy of this at your home to ask you to look through your p e r s o n a l files or to ask if you had any familiarity with whether or not any of these documents existed? No. MR. MAHONEY: I'm going to object to the extent the question assumes that he has personal files. (By Mr. Morrison) Do you have any documents, 13 0 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 sir, at your home that relate to Anc h o r 2 Packing Company? 3 A N o , I d o n 't . 4 Q Do you know of any individual, as we are 5 sitting here today, not talking about lawyers, 6 but employees of Anchor Packing, to your 7 knowledge, that have any documents related to 8 Anchor Packing Company in their personal 9 possession? 10 A No, I k n o w of no one. 11 Q W h e r e w o u l d any d o c u m e n t s p e r t a i n i n g to The 12 Anchor Packing Company, to the extent they 13 still exist, historical documents, where would 14 they be stored today? 15 A T h e y w o u l d be s t ored at the w arehouse, 16 probably in Palmyra. 17 Q T h a t ' s the G ar l o c k ? 18 A F a c i l i t y . 19 Q Have you be e n to that f a c i l i t y to look t h r o u g h 20 the documents that exist there? 2 1 A No, I have not. 22 Q Have you seen an index to or a catalog of the 23 documents that still exist up there for Anchor 24 Packing? 25 A N o . 13 1 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 Q As we sit here today, are you familiar with 2 any record retention program that The Anchor 3 Packing Company may have had at any time 4 during the time that you worked for them? 5 A Yes, their nationwide retention program was 6 seven years. 7 Q Were there any exceptions to that? 8 A Some districts may have kept certain materials 9 for a longer period of time for their own 10 particular reference. 11 Q M i g h t the r e also have be e n a r e q u i r e m e n t in 12 certain instances that the Government might 13 have had a requirement that some documents be 14 kept longer than seven years? 15 A Not that I'm aware of. 16 Q Okay. Prior to 1993, to your knowledge, did 17 A nc h o r Packing Company at any time sell 18 products outside the United States? 19 A N o . 20 Q Do yo u have any k n o w l e d g e -- and I'm g o i n g 2 1 b a c k to E x h i b i t N u m b e r 1, item n u m b e r four. 22 Do you have any knowledge about any funding, 2 3 whether directly or indirectly, given by 24 A n c h o r Packing to any individual or group of 2 5 individuals for research into the health 132 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 affects of asbestos? 2 A No, I have no knowledge as to that. 3 Q Do you know anybody within the company who 4 m i g h t have that type k n o w l e d g e if, indeed, it 5 occurred? Who would you have expected to 6 handle that? 7 A One of the old officers of the company. 8 Q A n d you can't give me -- do you k n o w the - 9 A I can't give you specifically who would have 10 been involved. 11 Q Was there ever a s a f e t y d i r e c t o r - 12 A No . 13 Q -- for A n c h o r P a c k i n g ? 14 A No . 15 Q Was a m e d i c a l director, e i t h e r n a t i o n a l l y or 16 in any district in which you were employed, 17 was a medical director on staff? 18 A N o . 19 Q At any time d u r i n g yo u r e m p l o y w i t h A n c h o r 2 0 P a c k i n g or at any time p r i o r to it, if y o u ' v e 21 seen documents and can answer as to that time, 22 has there ever been a medical surveillance 23 program or screening for Anchor Packing 24 employees ? 25 A N o . 133 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. -- --------- ---------- JOH N D. CALL - 12/ 7 / 9 4______ 1 Q And just so I'm clear, you did not do a search 2 for any documents personally that might have 3 satisfied any one of the thirty-three 4 categories of documents that were made a part 5 of the subpoena duces tecum, correct? 6 A That is correct. 7 Q Are you aware of the existence of any 8 documents which relate to the funding, 9 directly or indirectly, of research into the 10 health effects of asbestos? 11 A N o . 12 Q The next item is a d v e r t i s e m e n t s that d e f e n d a n t 13 Anchor Packing caused to be published in the 14 ASBESTOS MAGAZINE. To your knowledge, did 15 Anchor Packing ever advertise in ASBESTOS 16 MAGAZINE? 17 A No . 18 Q Have you ever seen the ASBESTOS MAGAZINE? 19 A N o , I have n o t . 2 0 Q I believe we have already covered number six 21 r e g a r d i n g the Ai r H y g i e n e F o u n d a t i o n and. 22 Industrial Hygiene Foundation. Number seven, 23 do you -- have you ever seen any dust cou n t s 24 taken, whether by Anchor Packing or in an 25 A n c h o r P a c k i n g -- tak e n at an A n c h o r P a c k i n g 134 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. __________________J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94_________ 1 facility? 2 A No . 3 Q Ha v e y ou ev e r seen any -- the r e s u l t s of 4 correspondence regarding fiber release - 5 asbestos fiber release at an Anch o r Packing 6 facility or of products sold by Anchor Packing 7 in the field? 8A I don't b e l i e v e so. 9 Q Okay. If any such tests were to have b e e n run 10 by Anchor Packing, do you have an impression 11 as we sit here today whose a u t h o r i t y that 12 would have fallen under? 13 , MR. MAHONEY: Object to 14 form. That calls for speculation. 15 Go ahead. 16 Q (By Mr. Morrison) A n d all I'm tr y i n g to find 17 out, sir, is if you don't know, is there 18 anybody else who might have a better idea that 19 can tell me absolutely not, or that yes, we 20 did? 21 A I don't know if there is a p r e s i d e n t that you 22 could talk to r e g a r d i n g w h e t h e r it was o r d e r e d 23 or n o t . 24 Q In a d d i t i o n to catalogs, to y o u r knowledge, 25 did Anchor Packing put out, during the time CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, 135 INC. -------- .-------- JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94______ 1 that you were with them, any other types of 2 advertising or instructions for use of the 3 p r o d u c t s it was to sell? 4 A We put out advertising, but no instructions. 5 Q Would the advertising be like the advertising 6 that we mistakenly included -- 7 A Yes . 8 Q -- w i t h E x h i b i t 6? 9 A Single sheet fliers, a mailer, something like 10 that . 11 Q G e n e r a l l y , it w o u l d just c o n t a i n a p i c t u r e of 12 the product and some information about its 13 uses ? 14 A T h a t ' s correct. 15 Q But as I u n d e r s t a n d from y o u r testimony, 16 generally would not include specific 17 instructions for application or removal? 18 A T h a t 's c o r r e c t . 19 Q That w o u l d have b e e n true in the ' 5 0 ' s also, 20 as far as you can tell from the documents that 21 you have seen? 22 A Yes, I w o u l d a s sume it was. 23 Q At some point, did The Anchor Packing Company 24 generally, other than the compressed asbestos 25 sheets, cease the sale of asbestos -containing 136 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 products prior to 1993? 2 A We c e a s e d the sale of c o m p r e s s e d -- or b r a i d e d 3 packing in 1982. 4 Q I'm sorry, '82 or '92? 5A '82 . 6 Q Okay. 7 A The braided packing. 8 Q Right. 9 A That contained asbestos. 10 Q O t h e r tha n the b r a i d e d p a c k i n g -- and we have 11 talked about that before -- were there any 12 other asbestos -containing products which 13 Anchor Packing ceased selling prior to October 14 of '93 ? 15 A The only we withheld selling all products 16 that contained asbestos, with the e x c e ption of 17 the compressed gasket sheet, and up to some 18 point in time, the brake lining and clutch 19 facing material as was allowed by the 2 0 G o v e r n m e n t , as far as, you know, the use of 21 brake lining that contained that product. 22 Q After 1975 when the w a rnings that a p p e a r e d in 23 Call E x h i b i t s 3 and 4, w h i c h e v e r one h a p p e n e d 24 to have been the one in 1975, at any time from 25 that p o i n t u n t i l 1993, did an employee ever 137 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. 1 2 3 4 5A 6Q 7 8 9A 10 Q 11 12 13 14 15 16 A 17 18 Q 19 2 0 21 22 23 24 25 Q JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 come to you and ask you, sir, I'm putting these on products and I don't know what -- could you explain to me what the health hazard is? No, I was n e v e r q u e s t i o n e d about it. And not even indirectly? The question never got back to you that an employee had a concern? No. At any time in the history of the company, are you aware of any citations or complaints made against Anch o r Packing Com p a n y as a result of dusty or bad environmental conditions within any of their warehouses that we have discussed? I'm not aware of any h a p p e n i n g as that -- such as t h a t . O t h e r than the catalogs, as -- w o u l d it be fair to say that the catalog that's attached as Exhibit Number 7 from 1939 and the catalog that's attached as Exhibit Number 6 from n i n e t e e n -- an u n i d e n t i f i e d date, I gue s s we said, didn't we? MR. MAHONEY: Yes. (By Mr. Morrison) -- w o u l d those be f a i r l y 13 8 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 of the catalogs that you saw during 2 your entire time with Anchor? 3 A They were typical in content. The format 4 changed. In later years, they came with a 5 loose-leaf type notebook, a loose-leaf 6 catalog. 7 Q When a salesman such as y o urself came to the 8 company, other than these catalogs, was there 9 anything available to them to review to 10 familiarize themselves with the products, 11 their uses, their applications? 12 A No . 13 Q To your knowledge today, sir, do there exist 14 any records whi c h w o u l d enable you, if you 15 could get your hands on them, to tell me 16 whether or not the sale of any Anchor Packing 17 products were made to a p a r t i c u l a r l ocation in 18 Texas ? 19 A I don't b e l i e v e there were. 2 0 Q When you had sales records for your different 2 1 district offices - 22 A Yes. 23 Q -- were you r e q u i r e d to t r a n s m i t tho s e to the 24 national office at any point, or did they stay 25 in your regional office? 13 9 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ________ ____________ JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94______ 1 A They stayed in our regional office. 2 Q And would the same document retention program 3 have applied to those? 4 A That's the r e t e n t i o n p r o g r a m I spoke of. 5 Q To the best of your knowledge, through 1993, 6 has any employee of The Anchor Packing Company 7 ever filed a workers' compensation claim? 8 A No. 9 Q To the best of your knowledge, no employee of 10 The Anchor Packing Company has ever alleged 11 that their exposure to asbestos caused them 12 physical injury? 13 A T h a t ' s correct. 14 Q Have you ever h e a r d of Dr. S e l i k o f f ? 15 A I've h e a r d the name. 16 Q Okay. 17 A But I don't know him. 18 Q You n e v e r h e a r d hi m speak? 19 A N o . 20 Q Never read any of the articles he might have 2 1 written? 22 A N o , I h a v e n 't . 23 Q Did you ever know a gentleman with Garlock by 24 the name of Elwood Houghton? 25 A No . 14 0 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 Q How about Roy Whittaker? 2 A I know Roy Whittaker. 3 Q And how do you know Mr. Whittaker? 4 A Through personal contact at their Palmyra 5 facility. He would normally have been 6 involved in one of these level one, two, three 7 meetings, speaking from the product 8 engineering point of view. 9 Q Prior to your participation in or after 1988 10 in these levels one, two, and three meetings, 11 had you ever met Mr. Wh i t t a k e r prior to that 12 time? 13 A N o . 14 Q Hav e yo u ever had any d e a l i n g s w i t h or any 15 communication with the American Conference of 16 Governmental Industrial Hygienists? 17 A No, I have not. 18 Q O t h e r than y o u r b u s i n e s s m a n a g e m e n t degree, 19 sir, do you have any training as a medical 20 doctor? 21 A N o , I d o n 't . 22 Q Any training as an industrial hygienist? 23 A N o , I d o n 't . 24 Q I want to show you some p i c t u r e s . And let me 25 represent for the record that I'm showing you 141 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ____________________ J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94______ 1 vo l u m e one of what is a f f e c t i o n a t e l y refe r r e d 2 to as the OCF picture book labeled Asbestos 3 Litigation Reference Series Co-Defendant 4 Product Picture Books from the Law Department 5 of Owens-Cor ning Fiberglas, Second Edition, 6 June of 1990, and ask you, under section 106, 7 gaskets, packing, sheet, rope, wick, cord and 8 tape, if the fourth p r oduct listed after three 9 A r m s t r o n g products, if you rec o g n i z e that 10 product ? 11 A Yes, I d o . 12 Q C o u l d yo u d e s c r i b e g e n e r a l l y for the jury what 13 we are looking at here? 14 A T h a t ' s a label i n d i c a t i n g that the style was 15 called Vy-Flex, V-Y - F-L-E-X, which was a 16 p a c k i n g -- m o l d e d or f o r m e d p a c k i n g for 17 p acking a valve of a high temperature nature, 18 made out of stainless steel floss. 19 Q Is the c o l o r of this label t y p i c a l of the 2 0 colors used by Anchor in the '50's for that 2 1 type product? 22 23 A Yes . MR. MAHONEY: The label. 24 Q (By Mr. Morrison) And the big red A that 25 a p p e a r s at the top of that, is that a -- is CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, 142 INC. ________________J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94___________ 1 that a symbol that was used pretty frequently 2 by Anchor Packing for its products? 3 A I b e l i e v e it was us e d t h r o u g h o u t the A n c h o r 4 Packing hist o r y as the logo. 5 Q Does this appear to you to be a true and 6 correct photograph of the label as you have 7 described it? 8 A Yes . 9 MR. MORRISON: With 10 everyone's permission, what I would 11 like to do is label these, give them 12 to her and have her make color 13 copies to attach to the deposition 14 and give the originals back to me to 15 put back in this book. Is that 16 acceptable? 17 MR. MAHONEY: That's fine 18 with me as long as they are clearly 19 marked. 20 (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit Number 21 10 was m a r k e d for i d e n t i f i c a t i o n 22 by the reporter.) 23 Q (By Mr. Morrison) Mr. Call, the q u e s t i o n s I 24 have just asked you about the picture, I have 25 now m a r k e d as Exhibit N u m b e r 10; is that 143 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ____________________ JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94______ 1 correct ? 2 A That's correct. 3 Q Also marked as - 4 (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit Number 5 11 was m a r k e d for i d e n t i f i c a t i o n 6 by the reporter.) 7Q (By Mr. Morrison) Also m a r k e d as Exhibit 8 N u m b e r 11 is a n o t h e r p h o t o g r a p h . C o uld you 9 identify that for the jury? 10 A T h a t ' s the same type of label, w h i c h w o u l d be 11 a label which would go on a box of packing. 12 And that identifies that style of p a c k i n g as 13 Anklon, A-N-K-L-O-N, which was a Teflon 14 product. 15 Q That was or was not an a s b e s t o s - c o n t a i n i n g 16 product ? 17 A T h a t ' s not an a s b e s t o s -c o n t a i n i n g product. 18 Q O t h e r than the name A n k l o n and A n k o t a l l i c that 19 we looked at trademark documents for earlier, 20 were there any other names that you know of 2 1 that, as you u n d e r s t o o d it, were r e s e r v e d 22 exclusively for Anchor Packing? 23 A A n y of the b r a n d e d nam e s of our p r o d u c t s were 24 exclusive, to my knowledge. 25 Q W o u l d that include the Tauril name? 144 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1 9 20 21 22 23 24 2 5 -------------------- J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94______ A Tauril. Target was another gasket sheet. Q A n d is the d o c ument a t t a c h e d as N u m b e r 11 a true and correct copy of the label that would have appeared on the product that you have described? A Yes . Q W o u l d e i t h e r e x h i b i t n u m b e r -- w o u l d E x h i b i t s 10 and 11 that we have just d iscussed, w o u l d those have been what you would have expected the labels on these two products to look like, eve n in the ' 5 0 ' s? A Yes, I assume they would. Q That symbol and that color was something that was fairly consistent within the company? A That's correct. Q Let me ask you if you can i d e n t i f y that ' document, that picture? A It looks like a p i c t u r e of a g a s k e t sheet, Target gasket sheet. Q That would be the actual sheet itself? A Yes, I imagine it was. Q With all of these words on it that appear in this picture? A That is correct. Q Okay. CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, 145 INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 A E a c h one of those rings in the -- in the 2 target circles would have indicated a specific 3 measurement, probably an inch between each 4 ring. 5 Q I gotcha. 6 A To assist a mechanic in cutting a ten-inch or 7 twelve-inch or fifteen-inch circle. 8 Q Would this configuration, looking something 9 like a target, would that have been the type 10 of emblem or symbol that you would have 11 expected to have seen on any of the target 12 products ? 13 A T h a t ' s correct. 14 Q And would that have been the emblem or the 15 symbols being used throughout the '50's and 16 '6 0 ' s? 17 A Yes . 18 Q I'm g o i n g to ask in a m o m e n t for this to be 19 m a r k e d as E x hibit N u m b e r 12. Does E x h i b i t 2 0 N u m b e r 12 t r u l y and a c c u r a t e l y d e p i c t what you 2 1 have just described? 22 A Y e s . That w o u l d have b e e n a b r a n d p r i n t e d on 23 the material itself. 24 (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit Number 25 12 was m a r k e d for i d e n t i f i c a t i o n 14 6 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, I N C . JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 by the reporter.) 2Q (By Mr. Morrison) W o u l d the p r o d u c t d e p i c t e d 3 in E x h i b i t N u m b e r 12 have b e e n an 4 asbestos -containing product? 5 A Y e s , it w o u l d . 6 Q Let me ask you to identify what's in this 7 picture. And we may or may not attach that 8 one, if you know? 9 A Oh, that's a metal can, w h i c h was a c o n t a i n e r 10 for style 317 valve packing. 11 Q Do you reca l l what kind of a p p l i c a t i o n s 317 12 had? 13 A That was n o r m a l l y a v a l v e p a c k i n g for hig h 14 temperature valves. 15 Q I'm g o i n g to ask for this to be m a r k e d as 16 E x h i b i t 13 in a moment. Does E x h i b i t 13 17 f a i r l y and a c c u r a t e l y depict the a p p e a r a n c e of 18 the container in which style 317 valve 19 packings would have been packaged in the 20 ' 5 0 ' s? 21 A Y e s , it d o e s . 22 (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit Number 23 13 was m a r k e d for i d e n t i f i c a t i o n 24 by the reporter.) 25 Q (By Mr. Morrison) W o u l d the p r o duct 147 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. _____ _________ ______JOH N D. CALL - 1 2 / 7 / 9 4 ______ 1 p i c t u r e d -- that w o u l d have b e e n package;d in 2 the p a c k a g e shown in E x h i b i t 13 have b e e n an 3 asbestos -containing product? 4 A Yes . 5 Q In the '5 0 ' s? 6 A It would. 7 Q Let me show you the next picture, sir, and ask 8 you if you can i d e n t i f y what that depicts? 9 A That's another label for the Vy-Flex ring 10 packing. 11 Q W o u l d that p a r t i c u l a r p r o d u c t in the ' 5 0 ' s 12 have been an asbestos -containing product? 13 A No, it was a s t a i n l e s s steel floss, very fine 14 stainless steel wire. 15 Q The A n k l o n ring packing, that w o u l d have bee n 16 a Teflon product? 17 A T h a t ' s correct. 18 Q It w o u l d not have c o n t a i n e d a s b e s t o s ? 19 A T h a t 's r i g h t . 20 (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit Number 21 14-17 was marked for identification 22 by the reporter.) 23 Q (By Mr. Morrison) Let me ask you, Mr. Call, if 24 you can identify what's been m a r k e d as Exhibit 25 14 to y o u r d e p o s i t i o n . 148 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. 1A J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 It a p p e a r s to be a c a u t i o n label i n d i c a t i n g 2 the avoidance of creating or breathing dust. 3 Q Okay. 4 A A n d a p i c t u r e of the front of -- or the side 5 of a Vy-Flex packing box. 6 Q We know from your previous testimony that the 7 earliest that that box could have been in 8 appearance was 1975, correct? 9 A A s s u m i n g that this label was on that box. It 10 doesn't indicate to me that it is on the boxes 11 as placed in the picture. 12 Q O h , I g o t c h a . 13 A Y e a h . 14 Q Is that not the w a y that the bo x w o u l d have 15 a p p e a r e d as you recall it in 1975? 16 A This looks like the front of the box w h e r e the 17 label would appear, but I don't understand 18 what the rest of the p i c t u r e is. 19 Q A n d - 2 0 A Or how that occurred to m e . 2 1 Q You have pointed down to the box at the bottom 22 of the picture which says The Anchor Packing 23 Company? 24 A T h a t ' s correct. 25 Q That does appear to be what a box would have 149 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 appeared - 2 A T h a t 's r i g h t . 3 Q For ring packing? 4 A T h a t 's r i g h t . 5 Q But as a whole, this p i c t u r e is not s o m e t h i n g 6 that all goes together? 7 A It d o e s n ' t seem to fit. 8 Q As far as color and the type of print, does 9 that a p p e a r on E x h i b i t N u m b e r 14 to be the 10 general appearance of the caution labels - 11 A Yes . 12 Q -- you r e m e m b e r ? 13 A Yes . 14 Q Let me ask you if you can i d e n t i f y E x h i b i t 15 N u m b e r 15. 16 A T h a t ' s a p i c t u r e of a tag, a s t r i n g tag w h i c h 17 would have been attached to a set of Amflex 18 packings, indicating the size of the packings. 19 Q W e r e the A m f l e x p a c k i n g s a s b e s t o s -c o n t a i n i n g 2 0 product in the '50's? 21 A A m f l e x p a c k i n g s were ava i l a b l e in four 22 different styles. One style would have 23 contained asbestos; three styles would not. 24 Q As a salesman, if the p r o d u c t wer e out of the 25 box, could you tell w h e t h e r it was an 150 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ________________ JO H N D. CALL - 1 2 / 7 / 9 4 _______________ 1 asbestos-containing Amflex packing product or 2 not in the '6 0 ' s ? 3 A Probably we could. 4 Q What, to you personally, would have been what 5 you would have looked for to distinguish the 6 asbestos -containing from the 7 non-asbestos-containing Amflex packings? 8 A The coarseness of the yarn that was embedded 9 into the rubber product. Basically, it was a 10 m o l d e d rubber, n e o p r e n e or Bun a N -- B u n a - N 11 product. 12 Q W o u l d an o v e r s i m p l i f i c a t i o n be that it had a 13 grainy appearance? 14 A It was a coarser, h e a v i e r insert in the 15 rubber. 16 Q Okay. Does the p i c t u r e in E x h i b i t N u m b e r 15 17 fairly and accurately represent what you have 18 just described? 19 A Yes, it d o e s . 20 Q A n d w o u l d that have been the a p p e a r a n c e of 21 that packaging in the 1950's? 22 A T h a t ' s quite possi b l e . I'm not sure if the y 23 changed that over the years, the way they 24 labeled them. 25 Q E x h i b i t N u m b e r 16, ca n y o u i d e n t i f y t h a t for 151 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 the jury? 2 A That's a label that would have been on a 3 package of Ankotallic gaskets. 4 Q And that would have been a product that would 5 have been sold during the 1950's? 6 A Yes, sir. 7 Q This p i c t u r e is not in color,correct? 8 A That is correct. 9 Q But if we could p l a y Ted Tu r n e r and colorize 10 this, the background would be black? 11 A That's correct. 12 Q A n d the A w o u l d be red? 13 A The A w o u l d be red. 14 Q Was the A n k o t a l l i c gas k e t p r o d u c t sold in the 15 19 5 0 ' s an asbestos -c o n t a i n i n g product? 16 A Some styl e s w o u l d have c o n t a i n e d asbestos, 17 yes . 18 Q A n d is there a n y t h i n g about E x h i b i t N u m b e r 16 19 which would enable you to ascertain from 20 w h e t h e r the -- from p r o d u c t from w h i c h this 21 was taken was an asbestos -containing or 22 non-asbestos -containing product? 23 A No . 24 Q Does the picture, as a t t ached as Exhibit 2 5 N u m b e r 16, f a i r l y and. a c c u r a t e l y r e p r e s e n t 152 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 what you have just described? 2 A Y e s , it d o e s . 3 Q Can you identify Exhibit Number 17? 4 A T h a t ' s a label from a -- i d e n t i f y i n g a bo x of 5 rin g packing, i n d i c a t i n g the style n u m b e r is 6 Amflex rings. 7 Q Generally, the appearance - I'm sorry. Did 8 y ou say it was a label? 9 A It a p p e a r s to be a label that w o u l d have b e e n 10 on a b o x . 11 Q Just the general format and style of this 12 label w i t h the -- what I w o u l d call a d a s h e d 13 line all the w ay a r o u n d it, is that t y p i c a l of 14 just this particular type of ring packing 15 Amflex? Or does the appearance of this 16 g e neral label, is that c o n s i s t e n t with what 17 you would expect to see on other products 18 also? 19 A T h a t ' s c o n s i s t e n t w i t h ring p a c k i n g in 2 0 general. The b l ank space is filled in with - 21 w h e n you -- w i t h the p a r t i c u l a r type of rings 22 that you are putting in the box. 23 Q And does Exhibit N u m b e r 17 fairly and 24 accurately represent what you have just 25 described? 153 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 A Yes, it d o e s . 2 Q Would the Amfl e x rings, ring p a c king sold in 3 the '50's , have been an asbestos-containing 4 product ? 5 A One of the four styles w o uld be. 6 Q With that product, as my previous question 7 about the others, could you as a salesman look 8 at the a s b e s t o s -c o n t a i n i n g ring -- A m f l e x ring 9 packings and distinguish them from the 10 non-asbestos -containing Amflex? 11 A I believe we could. 12 Q Was that something fairly obvious and you 13 could easily tell the difference between the 14 asbestos and non-asbestos? 15 A Yes, b e c a u s e of the c o a r s e n e s s of the fibers. 16 Q In addition to testifying these four times in 17 asbestos related personal injury cases and 18 today, have you ever been deposed in any other 19 connection with regard to the Anchor Packing? 2 0 A No . 21 Q Never involved in any coverage litigation - 22 A N o , sir. 23 Q -- issues? 24 A No . 25 Q As a company, to the best of y o u r knowledge, 154 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7A 8Q 9 10 11 12 13 A 14 Q 15 16 A 17 Q 18 19 2 0 2 1 22 23 24 25 Q JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 The Anchor Packing Company never did any testing on its own or hired anybody to do any t e s t i n g as to w h e t h e r or not the p r o d u c t s it was s e l l i n g were safe -- the asbestos-containing products were safe for the use of its customers? To the best of my knowledge, they did not. Do you have any information or have you ever had any information as to whether any of the companies who supplied products to The Anchor Packing Company, such as R a y bestos M a n h a t t a n or Garlock, ever did any such testing? Not to my knowledge. Did you ever know a worker by the name of A n t h o n y Hinrichs, H - I -N - R - I -C -H -S ? No . - Do you have any personal knowledge of the general appearance of an a s b e s t o s -containing p acking after it's been in place for, let's say, a couple of years, what it w o u l d look like upon removal generally? MR. MAHONEY: I'm going to object. I think that calls for speculation. (By Mr. Morrison) Let me -- 155 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ___________________ JOHN D. CALL - 12/7/94______ 1 MR. MAHONEY: It d o e s n ' t 2 provide sufficient facts. 3 Q- (By Mr. Morrison) Let me r e p h r a s e it. I'm not 4 sure I know enough facts to supply you with 5 the foundation that you need, but let's try. 6 O t h e r than the G a r l o c k t r a i n i n g t h i n g from '88 7 or after, have you ever been out in the field 8 and watched the removal of packing or gaskets 9 after either of them have been in place for 10 some period of time? 11 A No, I have not. 12 Q And in the 1988 or subsequent training 13 conducted by Garlock, had any of the packing 14 or gaskets in any of the applications which 15 you were shown, were any of those products 16 that been in place for a while and you saw 17 them removed? 18 A No, we were d e a l i n g w i t h new p r o d u c t and 19 installat ion. 20 Q As a supplier, rather than a m a n u f a c t u r e r of 21 asbestos -containing products, did The Anchor 22 Packing Company rely upon its suppliers to 23 ascertain whether the products containing 24 asbestos were safe for the end users? 25 A I wouldn't say that we relied on them. We 156 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 purchased product from them through their 2 catalogs, with the assumption that they were 3 providing us a quality product. 4 Q At any time in your tenure with Anchor or 5 anything that you have seen prior to your 6 tenure, do you know of any efforts made by 7 Anchor Packing Company to ascertain that 8 Raybestos Manhattan did any testing to make 9 sure its products - 10 A No, I'm not aware of any - 11 Q -- wer e safe? 12 A - - a c t i o n . 13 Q H o w about any such e f f o r t s ma d e to e n s u r e that 14 the products sold containing asbestos by 15 Garlock to Anchor and from Anchor to its 16 customers were safe? 17 A N o . 18 MR. MORRISON: Mark those, 19 please. 20 (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit Nos. 21 18 t h r o u g h 21 were m a r k e d for 22 identification by the reporter.) 23 Q (By Mr. Morrison) Mr. Call, I'm g o i n g to show 24 you w h a t ' s b e e n m a r k e d as E x h i b i t 18 to this 25 d e p o s i t i o n and ask you if you could describe 157 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 to the jury what that d o c u m e n t is. 2 A A list of asbestos -containing products sold or 3 distributed by Anchor Packing Company. 4 Q Is there a time frame on that as to wh e n that 5 would be an accurate list? 6 A No. 7 Q Could you look down through that list, sir, 8 and tell me if there are any of those p r o d u c t s 9 which you know, as we sit here today, would 10 not have been sold by Anchor in the 1950's? 11 MR. MAHONEY: I'm going to 12 o b j e c t to the ext e n t -- for 13 foundation purposes. The question 14 assumes that the products on the 15 list were sold, not simply that they 16 were available for sale, but - 17 Q (By Mr. Morrison) Let me revise my question, 18 then, and ask you if you can i d e n t i f y any of 19 the p r o d u c t s l i s t e d on E x h i b i t N u m b e r 18 to 20 this deposition which you do not believe were 21 offered for sale in the 1950's? 22 A Yes, I can. 23 Q Okay. Could you just go through the list and 24 tell the jury which ones those would be? 25 A I'll just go through listing by item number. 158 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 Q That will be fine. 2A Item number one, two, three, four, item 3 twenty-one and twenty-two, twenty-three, 4 twenty-four, twenty-five, twenty-six, 5 twenty-seven, forty-five, forty-eight, 6 forty- n i n e , fifty. That a p p e a r s to be it. 7 Q K e e p i n g that same list, E x h i b i t N u m b e r 18, and 8 g o i n g first to n u m b e r five, w h i c h I thi n k is 9 the first one that you failed to enumerate? 10 A R i g h t . 11 Q It's the first one listed there that, as best 12 you know, was offered for sale in the '50's. 13 S t a r t i n g w i t h -- at least g o i n g t h r o u g h five 14 through twenty, which I think you have 15 indicated all were offered for sale in the 16 '50's, are any of those 17 non-asbestos-containing products ? 18 A N o . 19 Q I thi n k the next series that you have 20 indicated by omission that were offered for 2 1 sale in the '50's were items twenty-eight 22 through forty-five. Are any of those items 23 non-asbestos-containing products? 24 A Item thirty-seven. 25 Q Okay. 159 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 A That takes us up to number forty-five. 2 Q Okay. And I have to confess that I lost track 3 at that time as to which ones were o f f ered for 4 sale in the 1950's. From forty-six to the 5 remainder of the list, would you just indicate 6 which were non-ashestos-containing products, 7 if any, that were o f f e r e d for sale, period? 8 A That I haven't eliminated before? 9 Q If yo u can do that, that w o u l d be fine, yes, 10 sir. And just so we're both clear, what you 11 are about to identify are products from 12 forty-six to the end of the list that would 13 have been offered for sale in the '50's and 14 would be non-asbestos -containing. 15 A N u m b e r s i x t y - s i x and n u m b e r sixty-eight, 16 number seventy-two, seventy-three, number ' 17 seventy-eight, number seventy-nine, number 18 eighty-four. That brings us to the end. 19 Q T h a n k you, sir. C o u l d you look at d o c u m e n t 2 0 N u m b e r 19 a t t a c h e d to yo u r d e p o s i t i o n and tell 2 1 me if you can i d e n t i f y that d o c u m e n t for the 22 jury . 2 3 A This is a M a t e r i a l S a f e t y Data Sheet, c o m m o n l y 24 r e f erred to as an MSDS sheet, p r o v i d e d by the 2 5 U.S. Department of Labor. 160 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 Q I'm sorry, provided by or provided to the 2 Department of Labor? 3 A By the U.S. Department of Labor, OSHA. 4 Q To the best of your u n d e r standing, if you 5 know, the form would have been provided by the 6 Department of Labor, but the information on 7 that particular completed form would have been 8 supplied by Anchor Packing, wouldn't it? 9 A That's correct. 10 Q And what -- is that -- all of Exhibit Nu m b e r 11 19, is that all one p r o d u c t or are there 12 several products for which M S D S 's are 13 provided? 14 A T h a t ' s sev e r a l prod u c t s . 15 Q C o u l d you just look at that and take as m u c h 16 time as you need and tell me if you see 17 anything on there which appears to be 18 inaccurate, as far as the inf o r m a t i o n p r o v i d ed 19 on those particular products. 2 0 A I have no way of identifying whether the 2 1 t e chnical data incl u d e d here is i n a c c u r a t e or 22 not . 23 Q Okay. Fair enough. Other than technical 24 data, is there anything, as far as just the - 25 for example, the -- 161 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 A The general format seems accurate. 2 Q What I want to draw your attention to more 3 than anything, on that c o ver sheet, it talks 4 about style 425 gaskets? 5 A That's correct. 6 Q A n d it i d e n t i f i e s that they are e i g h t y p e r c e n t 7 asbestos by weight? 8 A Eighty percent Chrysotile asbestos. 9 Q Okay. 10 A I don't see any r e ference to weight. 11 Q Do you just know from your personal experience 12 whether that would have been eighty percent by 13 weight or by volume? 14 A N o , I d o n 't . 15 Q A n d so therefore, I take it you don't know 16 w h e ther that's an accurate figure or not, of 17 your own personal knowledge? 18 A T h a t ' s correct. I a s s u m e it's accurate. It 19 would have been provided to us from the 2 0 m an u f a c t u r e r of the material. 21 Q To the best of your knowledge, at no time that 22 you have been with Anchor has Anchor done any 23 testing to ascertain for itself the fiber 24 content, whether by weight or by volume, of 25 the p r o d u c t s it was s elling? 162 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, R ECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 A That's correct. 2 Q That's all I have on that, Mr. Call. On this 3 set of documents which was attached to one of 4 your previous depositions, just out of 5 curiosity, does it a p p e a r to you from that 6 cover sheet that that was an invoice where a 7 product was sent to Wheeler Brothers? 8 A Yes . 9 Q Can you tell from either the item numbers or 10 the descriptions that appear on that document 11 what kind of supplies would have been sent to 12 Wheeler Brothers by Anchor Packing on that 13 particular invoice? 14 A The s e wer e A n k o t a l l i c gaskets. 15 Q Okay. A n d that's d a t e d when? 16 MR. MAHONEY: The date of the 17 document ? 18 MR. MORRISON: Yes, sir. 19 MR. MAHONEY: As o p p osed to 2 0 the date of the exhibit number? 21 A 2-4 - 81 . 22 Q (By Mr. Morrison) At any time, to your 23 knowledge, has Anchor offered for sale any 24 asbestos -containing protective clothing type 25 devices or sheets, cloth of any sort? 163 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 A I'm not sure I understand your question. 2 Q I'm not sure I do, either. T h at's fine. 3 Mr. Call, can you i d e n t i f y d o c u m e n t N u m b e r 20 4 to your deposition? 5 A Yes. That's a letter from the office of the 6 general sales man a g e r at our home office dated 7 November the 19th, 1975, directed in general 8 to district managers. The subject is asbestos 9 products from R/M. 10 Q R/ M b e i n g R a y b e s t o s M a n h a t t a n ? 11 A T h a t ' s correct. 12 Q A n d yo u said the date on that was '75? 13 A T h a t ' s correct. 14 Q A n d in '75, you were a d i s t r i c t manager, 15 right ? 16 A R i g h t . 17 Q You w o u l d have e x p e c t e d that you w o u l d have 18 received a copy of Call Exhibit N u m b e r 20? 19 A That's correct. 2 0 Q And basically, what is your u n d e r s t a n d i n g of 21 that communication from the home office? 22 A There were four styles of sheet material that 23 R/M was putting a card referring to the 24 hazards of asbestos dust, and they enclosed 2 5 the card and asked us to check those 164 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 shipments, to remove that card from the R/M 2 shipments, specifically. 3 Q Other than this written communication, which 4 is E x h i b i t N u m b e r 20, were you ev e r p r o v i d e d 5 orally an e x p l anation as to why that was to 6 occur? 7 A Yes. As I recall upon questioning this, the 8 reason was that the R/M card which they were 9 putting in as an assist for the warehouse 10 people so they didn't have to break down the 11 package and put our own hazard label in there, 12 ha d -- or did c o n t a i n the R a y b e s t o s name and 13 address. And the home office did not want 14 those shipments going to the customer with 15 their name and address on the card. 16 Q Do you recall, o t h e r than the name Raybestos', 17 what else was contained on the card that was 18 being removed as a result of the di r e c t i v e 19 indicated in Number 20? 2 0 A I b e l i e v e it was a g e n e r a l h a z a r d of b r e a t h i n g 21 asbestos dust caution label. 22 Q Do you rec a l l y o u r s e l f ever m a k i n g a 23 comparison to ascertain for yourself whether 24 the hazard label removed as a result of the 25 d i r e c t i v e r e f e r e n c e d on E x h i b i t N u m b e r 20, how 165 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. _________________ JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94_________________ 1 it c o m p a r e d to the one that A n c h o r was p u t t i n g 2 on products itself in 1975? 3 A I b e l i e v e it was v e r y similar. 4 Q As we sit here today, do you recall any 5 significant differences in the two? 6 A No. 7 Q Let me ask you to look at Call Exhibit Numb e r 8 21 and ask you if you can i d e n t i f y that 9 document. 10 A That was a n o t h e r l e t t e r from the g e n e r a l sales 11 manager dated February 2nd, 1976, directed to 12 district managers. And the subject was 13 asbestos products from R/M, referring to the 14 prior letter, stating that R/M was now 15 attaching cards that were without the R/M name 16 and address and that we should make sure that 17 that card stayed with the shipment. 18 Q As a d i s t r i c t m a n a g e r in 1976, do yo u rec a l l 19 receiving a copy of Call Exhibit Number 21? 20 A Yes, I do. 2 1 Q Does that appear to be a true and correct of 22 both Call Exhibit 20 and 21? 23 A Yes, sir, the y are. 24 MR. MORRISON: Make those the 2 5 next t w o . 166 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ____________________JOHN D. CALL - 12/7/94_______________ 1 (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit Nos. 2 22 and 23 were m a r k e d for 3 identification by the reporter.) 4Q (By Mr. Morrison) Let me ask you first if you 5 can i d e n t i f y Call E x h i b i t N u m b e r 22, if you 6 can read i t . 7 A It a p p e a r s to be a l e t t e r from the F l e x t a l l i c 8 Gasket Company to somebody in England. 9 Q Turner & Newell? 10 A I can n o t -- yes. 11 Q Do you have any f a m i l i a r i t y w i t h Tu r n e r & 12 Newell as a company? 13 A At one time in the mi d '80's, we we r e b u y i n g 14 product from Turner as a wet process asbestos 15 product that was not as dry as a regular 16 a s b e s t o s m a t e r i a l . T h e y p r o c e s s it 17 di f f e r e n t l y . 18 Q W h i l e I'm l o o k i n g at that, let me ask you 19 probably an unrelated question. At any time 20 to your knowledge, has Anchor ever offered for 2 1 sale any asbestos -containing cements? 22 A No . 23 Q Let me let you look, Mr. Call, at Exhibit 24 N u m b e r 22. A n d w o u l d you agree w i t h me that 25 the general purpose of that letter, as you 167 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 read it today, is to indicate that the Fluid 2 S e a l i n g A s s o c i a t i o n is r e c o m m e n d i n g the 3 d i s c o n t i n u a t i o n of the use of bl u e fiber? Is 4 that what they call it? 5 6 A Yes . MR. MAHONEY: Crocidolite. 7Q (By Mr. Morrison) Is that a fair r e a d i n g of 8 Call Exhibit Number 22? 9 MR. MAHONEY: Just before you 10 answer, I am going to object to the 11 question. There is no f o u n d a t i o n 12 for the use of this document. There 13 is no i n d i c a t i o n that Mr. Call has 14 personal knowledge of the document 15 or its contents. 16 Q (By Mr. Morrison) My qu e s t i o n - 17 MR. MAHONEY: Basically, the 18 document speaks for itself, I think. 19 Q (By Mr. Morrison) My q u e s t i o n right now is not 20 w h e t h e r yo u kn o w a n y t h i n g about it, but is 21 that a fair r e a d i n g of what y o u ' r e look i n g at 22 today? 23 A I can just make out that the r e f e r e n c e is blue 24 African asbestos. 25 Q My q u e s t i o n to you is, do y ou r e c a l l ever 168 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 having made to you or ever hearing any 2 commu n i c a t i o n s about the d i s c o n t i n u a t i o n of 3 the use of blue asbestos? 4 A No. 5 Q So to the best of your knowledge, if the Fluid 6 Sealing Association made such a 7 r e c o m m e n d a t i o n , it was n e v e r c o m m u n i c a t e d to 8 you as a district man a g e r in that time frame? 9 A That's correct. 10 Q A n d to y o u r k nowledge, at any time frame 11 around 1976, did Anchor cease selling any 12 products because they contained blue 13 asbestos ? 14 A Not to my k n o w l e d g e . My p e r s o n a l e x p o s u r e was 15 that we did not sell any blue asbestos in our 16 district. 17 Q You and I l o oked at e a r l i e r in E x h i b i t N u m b e r 18 7, w h i c h was the 1939 catalog, and some p a g e s 19 mentioned both white and blue asbestos, 20 correct ? 21 A Yes . 22 Q Do you have any knowledge, as we sit here 23 today, as to where blue asbestos versus white 24 asbestos was sold throughout the United States 25 in the '50's ? 169 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ____________________ JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94_______________ 1 MR. MAHONEY: O b j ection to 2 the extent the q u e s t i o n a s s u m e s it 3 was sold at all, other than being 4 available for sale as indicated in 5 the catalog. 6Q (By Mr. Morrison) Let me m o d i f y my q u e s t i o n to 7 take care of that concern. To your knowledge 8 as we sit here today, do you know one way or 9 the o t h e r w i t h i n the U n i t e d S t ates where, if 10 at all, The Anchor Packing Company offered for 11 sale products containing white asbestos versus 12 blue asbestos in the 1950's? 13 A I can't -- I can't i d e n t i f y a sales t e r r i t o r y 14 specifically, if there were sales. 15 Q Let ' s see. Call E x h i b i t N u m b e r 23, can you 16 identify that document? ' 17 A That is a r e p r e s e n t a t i o n of the w o r d i n g of the 18 original asbestos dust hazard label. 19 Q Yo u reca l l l o o k i n g at E x h i b i t 23, that that 2 0 p a r t i c u l a r w o r d i n g is the first one that 21 appeared in 1975? 22 A No, this is different. 23 Q T h a t ' s all I was -- I'm not t r y i n g to trip you 24 up . 25 A No . 170 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 Q I'm just trying to figure out which one was 2 the first o n e . 3A I d o n 't k n o w . 4 Q Okay. 5 A It says o r i g i n a l label. 6 Q Okay. 7 A I can't tell you whe r e it was - 8 Q Let me show you - 9 A That may have been the label that came from 10 R/M. 11 Q Okay. The d o c u m e n t I have a t t a c h e d as Call 12 E x h i b i t N u m b e r 23 to this d e p o s i t i o n was 13 Deposition Exhibit Number 1 in the deposition 14 you gave on June 25th of 1993, correct? 15 A C o r r e c t . 16 Q Or a p p e a r s to be? A n d this is the page that 17 followed that as Call Exhibit N u mber 2 in the 18 6-25-93 deposition. Does the handwritten note 19 addressed to Jack on the top of Exhibit Number 20 2 help you identify at all what Call Exhibit 21 N u m b e r 23 is? 22 A No. The e x h i b i t w i t h the note Jack 23 i n d i c a t e s -- it's a d i f f e r e n t label. That was 24 the label that we were using in the later 2 5 y e a r s , '89, '90. 171 C A R O L D A V I S R E P O R T I N G , R E C O R D S & VIDEO,! INC . J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 MR. MORRISON: I'm going to 2 take this o f f . 3 MR. MAHONEY: They're yours, 4 so - - 5 MR. MORRISON: Well, I know, 6 but I a t t a c h e d it as an exhibit. 7 MR. MAHONEY: Okay. 8Q (By Mr. Morrison) Do you have any knowledge, 9 sir, when The Anchor Packing Company was named 10 for the first time as a defendant in a lawsuit 11 where an individual or group of individuals 12 alleged injury or death due to their exposure 13 to asbestos -containing products sold by The 14 Anchor Packing Company? 15 A N o , I d o n 't . 16 Q Can you give me a date w h e n you t h i n k that 17 w o u l d have occurred, if you know? 18 A I d o n 't k n o w . 19 Q W h e n was the first time that you b e c a m e aware 2 0 of the fact that The Anchor Packing Company 21 was being named as a defendant in a p e rsonal 22 injury lawsuit alleging exposure to asbestos 23 as the cause of harm? 24 A W h e n I was d e p o s e d in 1985. 2 5 Q Sir, if an i n d i v i d u a l f r o m R a y b e s t o s M a n h a t t a n 172 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 or formerly associated with Raybestos 2 Manhattan testifies that they informed Anchor 3 thirty years ago or longer about potential 4 hazards of asbestos, do you have any means 5 of -- do you have any k n o w l e d g e w h e t h e r that 6 is accurate or inaccurate? 7 MR. MAHONEY: I object to the 8 form of the question. It a s s u m e s 9 facts not in evidence. 10 A I can't a n s w e r that. 11 Q (By Mr. Morrison) If -- if that we r e true, it 12 w a s n ' t you they c o m m u n i c a t e d it to, c orrect? 13 A T h a t ' s correct. 14 Q A n d if it were c o m m u n i c a t e d to a n y b o d y w i t h i n 15 A n c h o r Packing, it w a s n ' t f u r t h e r then 16 communicated to you, correct? 17 A T h a t ' s correct. 18 Q If Mr. K e n k e l e n wereawa r e of the h a z a r d s of 19 asbestos in the mid 1960's, did he ever 20 mention that to you? 21 A N o , s i r . 22 Q Hav e you, sir, ever h e a r d of the T r u d e a u 23 Foundation? 24 A N o , I have n o t . 2 5 Q How about the SerinackLaboratory? 173 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 A No . 2 Q Have you ever seen any studies, test results, 3 any informat i o n at all from either the Trudeau 4 Foundation or the Serinack Laboratory? 5 A No. 6 Q Did anyone from Raybestos Manhattan, to your 7 knowledge, ever share with you the fact that 8 in the 1920's, '30's, and ' 4 0 ' s, that 9 laboratory was able to show that asbestos 10 could cause injury and/or death? 11 A No, the y did not. 12 Q Do yo u r e m e m b e r who -- what i n s u r a n c e c o m p a n y 13 provided insurance coverage to Anchor Packing 14 for any -- any of the i n s u r a n c e c o m p a n i e s that 15 p r o v i d e d coverage, w h e t h e r it be workers' 16 compensation or personal injury coverage for 17 lawsuits such as the one we are here for today 18 from 1967 to the present? 19 A I b e l i e v e -- the o n l y one I r e c a l l h a v i n g seen 2 0 any insurance postings on our warehouse board 21 was Liberty Mutual. 22 Q Do you know whether Liberty Mutual ever came 23 to any facility operated by Anchor Packing and 24 did any type of dust counts or fiber release 25 studies? 174 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. 1 A No . JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 2 Q No, they didn't, or no, you don't know? 3 A No, I don't know. 4 Q Did anyone with Raybestos inform you or inform 5 s o m e b o d y else wi t h A n c h o r P a c k i n g so that it 6 was c o m m u n i c a t e d to you that as early as the 7 late 20's and early 1930's, they were 8 conducting medical surveillance programs of 9 their employees exposed to asbestos? 10 A No, I had no k n o w l e d g e of that. 11 Q So yo u w o u l d have had no k n o w l e d g e if the 12 results of such program showed that 13 sixty-seven out of one hundred and twenty-six 14 employees screened after only three years of 15 employment and exposure to asbestos showed 16 signs of fibrosis in their lungs? ' 17 A No . 18 MR. MAHONEY: I'm going to 19 object that he asked and answered 20 the question. He said he had no 21 knowledge. 22 Q (By Mr. Morrison) To your knowledge, sir, did 23 any institution or organization ever come into 24 A n c h o r Packing, any of its facilities, to your 2 5 k n o w l e d g e , a n d i n t e r v i e w a n y of t h e w o r k e r s 175 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 there about the conditions in those 2 warehouses ? 3 A Not to my knowledge. 4 Q Were any attempts made in any of those 5 warehouses, sir, to your knowledge, to control 6 that dust in any manner, to install fans, 7 vents, hoods, anything of that nature? 8 MR. MAHONEY: I'm going to 9 object. It a s s u m e s facts not in 10 evidence. There is no t e s t i m o n y 11 from this witness about any dust in 12 any Anchor warehouse. 13 Q (By Mr. Morrison) I think you can still answer 14 the question, if y o u ' r e able. 15 A Oh, we didn ' t p e r c e i v e that we had a dust 16 problem with the m a t e r i a l . 17 Q A n d I c e r t a i n l y a p p r e c i a t e that i n f o r mation, 18 but I don't believe that was my q u e s t i o n to 19 you. Di d you -- did a n y o n e -- di d Anchor, at 2 0 any of the warehouses with which you are 21 familiar, ever install any type of hood, fan, 22 or v e n ting so that the purpose, as you 23 u n d e r s t o o d it, was to c o n t r o l any dust output, 24 if any, from asbestos -c o n t a i n i n g p r o d u c t s 25 being used in that warehouse? 176 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ____________________ JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94_____________ 1 MR. MAHONEY: Same 2 objection. Go ahead. Go ahead and 3 answer. 4 A We didn't install any fans to ventilate any 5 areas because we didn't have a dust problem. 6 MR. MORRISON: I'm going to 7 object to the latter portion of that 8 as being n o n r e s p o n s i v e . 9Q (By Mr. Morrison) At any time dur i n g your 10 employ by Anchor Packing Company, has anyone 11 ever shared with you any results of studies 12 done by the U.S. Public Health Service 13 concerning asbestos dust and fiber releases? 14 A No . 15 Q At any time d u r i n g y o u r e m p l o y by The A n c h o r 16 Packing Company, have you ever been provided 17 or informed of any c o m m u n i c a t i o n s co n c e r n i n g 18 Raybestos Manhattan's p ar ticipation in the 19 Asbestos Textile Institute? 2 0 A No . 21 Q Have you at any time, sir, yourself, ever 22 p e r s o n a l l y -- I don't want to call it a field 23 trip. Have you ever gone out to any of 24 J o h n s - M a n v i 1 l e 's m an ufacturing plants? 2 5 A Yes. 177 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 Q And when would that have occurred? 2 A In the late '70's. 3 Q What was the purpose of that visit? 4A It was an e d u c a t i o n a l visit. I to o k one 5 salesman with me to visit the plant in 6 Manheim, Pennsylvania. 7 Q At the time that visit was made, was Anchor 8 Packing offering for sale any products 9 manufactured by Johns-Manvi1le? 10 A Oh, I'm sorry. You said J o h n s - M a n v i l l e . I'm 11 r e f e r r i n g to -- strike that. My r e f e r e n c e was 12 to R a y b e s t o s . 13 Q Fair enough. So at the time you mad e that 14 visit, Anchor would have been offering for 15 sale asbestos -containing products manufactured 16 by Raybestos Manhattan? 17 A Yes . 18 Q Was that y o u r idea to go to that R/M p l a n t ? 19 Or were you asked or instructed to do that by 2 0 somebody higher up in the company than 21 yourse1f ? 22 A No, that was my idea. 23 Q Why did you want to do that? 24 A We wer e s e l l i n g a lot of p r o d u c t that this one 2 5 s a l e s m a n was i n v o l v e d with, and I felt it 178 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOHN D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 would be knowledgeable for him to gain some 2 e x p e r i e n c e as to how it was made and e s t a b l i s h 3 some relationship with the factory. 4 Q Could you give me some estimate as to 5 a p p r o x i m a t e l y how long you spent at that plant 6 in Manheim? 7 A Probably an hour. 8 Q During that approximate hour, did you actually 9 make a walk-t hrough of the area where the 10 m a n u f a c t u r i n g of the products was taking 11 place? 12 A Yes, just a short trip t h r o u g h one of the 13 buildings. 14 Q The p a r t i c u l a r b u i l d i n g t h r o u g h w h i c h you 15 walked, would that have been a building in 16 which products were being manufactured or 17 fabricated and which The Anchor Packing 18 Company was offering for sale? 19 A Yes . 20 Q Do you r e m e m b e r what p r o d u c t or p r o d u c t s 21 specifically were being manufactured or 22 fabricated in that particular building? 23 A Not s p e c i f i c a l l y , but in general, it w o u l d 24 have been braided and hydraulic packing. 25 Q W h e n you first got to the R/M plant, did you 179 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. ____________________ JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94_______________ 1 meet with somebody from R/M who took you 2 through the plant? 3 A Yes, we went to the sales office. 4 Q Do you recall who from R/M you would have met 5 with prior to your walking through? 6A I don't recall. 7 Q Did the R/M salesperson go with you through 8 the plant building? 9 A No, just to the building, and then we were 10 turned over to somebody to give us direction 11 from there. 12 Q At the time you went t h r o u g h that p a r t i c u l a r 13 building, Raybestos building, were the braided 14 and hydraulic packings that were being 15 manufactured or fabricated there 16 asbestos -containing products? ' 17 A The b r a i d e d p a c k i n g was. 18 Q Wh a t - 19 A The h y d r a u l i c p a c k i n g was a m o l d e d r u b b e r 2 0 packing. 2 1 Q Do you recall if you were p r o v i d e d a 22 respirator prior to your walk-through? 23 A We were n o t . 24 Q Were you cautioned or warned about that in any 25 way? 180 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. 1A 2Q 3 4A 5Q 6 7A 8Q 9A 10 Q 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1 9 2 0 21 22 23 24 25 A No . JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 Have you ever reviewed at any time any depositions given by any Garlock employees? No. Any employees or representatives of Raybestos Manhattan? No. How about Klinger? No. Do you have any knowledge, firsthand or what you have heard or read something, that prior to the time that The Anchor Packing Company began to sell any products manufactured by Garlock, they asked for and/or received any test results regarding fiber release or dust counts, if any, from those p r o d u c t s when used if they c o n t a i n e d asbestos? MR. MAHONEY: I'm going to o b ject to the form. The q u e s t i o n is confusing. MR. MORRISON: that . I'll agree to MR. MAHONEY: If you u n d e r s t a n d it, you can a n s w e r it. I d o n ' t u n d e r s t a n d it. 181 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. _______ _____________ JO H N D. CALL - 1 2 / 7 / 9 4 ______________ 1 MR. MORRISON: To get around 2 y o u r objection, it takes me f i f t e e n 3 parentheticals. 4Q (By Mr. Morrison) Do you know, ei t h e r from 5 firsthand experience or anything that has been 6 c ommunicated to you in writing or orally, 7 whether or not Anchor Packing, prior to the 8 time it b e g a n to sell any a s b e s t o s -c o n t a i n i n g 9 products manufactured by Garlock, asked for 10 any p r o o f that dust -- a s b e s t o s -c o n t a i n i n g 11 dust or fibers were not being released from 12 that product during normal use? 13 MR. MAHONEY: I object to 14 form again. You can answer if you 15 understand the question. 16 A I have no k n o w l e d g e that any such q u e s t i o n was 17 asked. 18 Q (By Mr. Morrison) Likewise with R a y b e s t o s 19 Manhattan, understanding that that was before 2 0 your time, but based on anything you reviewed 2 1 or have be e n i n f o r m e d of, do you have any 22 reason to believe that any inquiry or proof 23 was required by Anchor Packing of Raybestos 24 M a n h a t t a n as to the safety of those pr o d u c t s 2 5 that The Anchor Packing Company sold which 182 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 contained asbestos? 2 A No. 3 MR. MORRISON: Mr. Call, I 4 believe that's all the questions I 5 have right now. I thank you for 6 your time today. 7 THE WITNESS: You're welcome. 8 MR. MORRISON: I pass the 9 wi tne ss . 10 MR. MAHONEY: A n y q u e stions 11 from anybody over there? 12 MS. MILLIGAN: No questions. 13 MR. MAHONEY: Actually, I do 14 have just one question. 15 16 EXAMINATION 17 18 BY MR. MAHONEY: 19 Q Yo u i d e n t i f i e d three i n d i v i d u a l s wh o have 2 0 served in the role as president of Anchor 21 Packing from 1987 to 1993, correct? 22 A Yes . 23 Q Who are those three people? Could you 24 identify them again. 25 A Bob Coleates, Will Tener, and D e n n y Vogel. 183 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 Q Did all of those individuals assume the 2 p r e s i d e n c y of Anchor after the purchase of 3 Anchor by Garlock? 4 A That's correct. 5 Q Had any of those three individuals worked for 6 The Anchor Packing Company prior to the 7 purchase of The Anchor Packing Company by 8 Garlock? 9 A No . 10 Q So none of those three individuals had worked 11 for Anchor prior to 1987? 12 A That's correct. 13 MR. MAHONEY: Okay. Thank 14 you . 15 MR. MORRISON: Before we go 16 off the record, I would like to 17 stack up the e x h i b i t s and see if 18 there are any that we can agree to 19 as being business records so that we 2 0 can save that much on a request for 21 pr o d u c t i o n . If there are not any, 22 tha t ' s fine. If not, I m a y go a h e a d 23 and ask the w i t n e s s if we can do 24 that. I won't go in order. Call 25 E x h i b i t N u m b e r 6, w h i c h is a 184 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. _________ JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94________ 1 catalog, are you willing to 2 s t i p u l a t e that that is a b u s i n e s s 3 record of Anchor Packing? 4 MR. MAHONEY: Yes. We'll 5 stipulate to that, yes. 6 MR. MORRISON: And that 7 Exhibit Nu m b e r 6 is a true and 8 correct copy of that document? 9 THE WITNESS: T h at's what it 10 appears to b e . 11 MR. MAHONEY: We will 12 stipulate this is an A n c h o r P a cking 13 catalog, although I believe the 14 t e s t i m o n y is that we don't have the 15 date wh e n it was issued. 16 MR. MORRISON: I agree. 17 MR. MAHONEY: But that's all 18 clear on the record. 19 MR. MORRISON: Can we have 2 0 the same agreements as to Exhibit 2 1 N u m b e r 7, w h i c h is i d e n t i f i e d as a 22 1939 catalog, that it is a true and 23 co r r e c t copy and that it is or was a 24 business record of The Anchor 25 Packing Company? 185 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 MR. MAHONEY: We'll stipulate 2 to that as well. It's the 1939 3 catalog? 4 MR. MORRISON: Yes. 5 MR. MAHONEY: It was 6 identified as such, correct? 7 MR. MORRISON: Yes. I assume 8 we cannot reach any such agreement 9 on E x h i b i t s 8 and 9, as I p r o v i d e d 10 those today? 11 MR. MAHONEY: No. We'll have 12 to take a look at that. Why don't 13 you submit that in written form and 14 w e '11 r e s p o n d . 15 MR. MORRISON: Okay. How 16 about E x h i b i t s 3, 4, and 5, w h i c h 17 are the photocopies of warnings? 18 MR. MAHONEY: What are you 19 asking that I - 2 0 MR. MORRISON: Two questions, 2 1 one, whether or not you're willing 22 to stipulate those are true and 23 correct copies? 24 MR. MAHONEY: We will 25 stipulate to that. 186 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, R ECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 MR. M O R R I S O N : As to 3, 4, 2 and 5 ? 3 MR. MAHONEY: Yes. 4 MR. MORRISON: And I'm asking 5 you to stipulate that they are 6 business records of The Anchor 7 Packing Company. 8 MR. MAHONEY: Yeah, we'll 9 stipulate to that as well. No 10 problem. 11 MR. MORRISON: I don't 12 b e l i e v e we can do this to 23 b e c a u s e 13 he said he thought that was 14 Raybestos; is that right? 15 MR. MAHONEY: Yes. Based on 16 the witness' testimony and my review 17 of the discovery responses, we'll 18 have to take another look at this. 19 I can't stipulate that it's a 20 business record or that it's frankly 21 even an Anchor d o c u m e n t . 22 MR. MORRISON: I gotcha. 23 Same thi n g for 22, Bill, that I 24 provided? 2 5 MR. MAHONEY: No s t i p u l a t i o n 187 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. _________ J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94________ 1 on this one, right. 2 MR. MORRISON: Okay. How 3 about as to Call 21, w h i c h was 4 attached to one of the depositions? 5 MR. MAHONEY: We will 6 s t i pulate that this is a true and 7 accurate copy of the letter of 8 February 2nd, 1976 and we will 9 s t i p u l a t e that it is a b u s i n e s s 10 record of The Anchor Packing 11 Company. 12 MR. MORRISON: How about Call 13 Exhibit Number 20? 14 MR. MAHONEY: Same 15 stipulations. 16 MR. MORRISON: Call Exhibit 17 N u m b e r 2, I b e l i e v e he's a l r e a d y 18 testified was a true and accurate 19 cop y of his e m p l o y m e n t history. Is 20 that a business record of The Anchor 21 Packing Company or was that 22 created? 23 MR. MAHONEY: No, it is not 24 or you can ask Mr. Call how it was 2 5 created, if you want to c l a r i f y 188 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOH N D. CALL 12/7/94 1 that . 2 MR. MORRI S O N O k a y . 3 MR. MAHONEY: I believe he 4 p r e p a r e d it h i m s e l f 5 THE WITNESS: I c r e a t e d it 6 myself. 7 MR. MORRISON: Okay. How 8 about Call Exhibit Number 19? 9 MR. MAHONEY: Yeah, we'll 10 stipulate these are Material Safety 11 Data Sheets of The Anchor Packing 12 Company, and we will stipulate that 13 such records were kept as business 14 records by Anchor Packing Company 15 after they were received and issue. 16 MR. MORRISON: And that 17 N u m b e r 19 are true and c o r r e c t 18 copies of those MSDS sheets? 19 MR. MAHONEY: Yes. 20 MR. MORRISON: Okay. Can we 2 1 get the same two stipulations as to 22 Call E x h i b i t N u m b e r 18, the list o f 23 product s? 24 MR. MAHONEY: Basically, I'm 25 p r e p a r e d to s t ipulate that this is a 18 9 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. _________ JO H N D. CALL - 12/7/94________ 1 list of asbestos -containing products 2 that was filed in a p r o c e e d i n g in 3 Madison County, Illinois, but this 4 was not a business record of The 5 Anchor Packing Company, that this 6 document was prepared specifically 7 for that litigation. 8 MR. MORRISON: In response to 9 discovery, I guess. 10 MR. MAHONEY: Yes. 11 MR. MORRISON: And just - 12 MR. MAHONEY: In response to 13 a court order and discovery request. 14 MR. MORRISON: Okay. 15 MR. MAHONEY: Placed on all 16 parties in those cases that all the 17 defendants had to list all of their 18 products. 19 MR. MORRISON: And just in 2 0 fairness to you and for the record, 21 this is not a list of all 22 asbestos -containing products. Some 23 he's i d e n t i f i e d as 24 asbestos -containing and some not, 25 right ? 190 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. J O H N D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 THE WITNESS: That's correct. 2 MR . MAHONEY: His testimony 3 speaks for itself on t h a t . 4 MR . MORRISON: I have already 5 done those Let me make sure, 6 Mr. Call, that we've got all these 7 I think we do. That's all I have, 8 sir. Thank you. 9 M R . MAHONEY: Thank you. 10 THE WITNESS: You're 11 we 1c o m e . 12 13 14 15 16 17 JOHN D . CALL 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 191 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JO H N D. CALL 12/7/94 1 THE STATE OF TEXAS: 2 COUNTY OF HARRIS: 3 S u b s c r i b e d and sworn to before me, the 4 undersigned authority, by the witness, 5 J O H N D. CALL, on this, the ______ day 6 of ________________________ _ 1994. 7 8 Notary Public in and for Harris County, T E X A S 9 My Commission Expires: 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2 0 2 1 22 23 24 2 5 192 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. JOHN D. CALL - 12/7/94 1 STATE OF TEXAS COUNTY OF HARRIS 2 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION TO THE DEPOSITION OF JOHN D. CALL 3 TAKEN ON DECEMBER 7. 1994 4 I, LOIS FIELDS, a Certified Shorthand 5 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, hereby 6 certify that this deposition transcript is a 7 true record of the testimony given by the 8 witness named herein, after said witness was 9 duly sworn by me. 10 I further certify that I am neither 11 attorney, nor counsel for, related to, nor 12 employed by any of the parties to the action 13 in which this testimony was taken. Further, I 14 am not a relative or employee of any attorney 15 of record in this cause, nor do I have a 16 financial interest in the action. 17 Further certification requirements 18 pursuant to the Rules will be certified to 19 after they have occurred. 20 Subscribed and sworn to on this, the R 21 12th day of December, 1994. x 22 LOIS FIELDS MY COMMISSION EXPIRES July 21,1998 23 Certified Shorthand Reporter In and for the State of Texas 24 CERTIFICATE NO.: 2116 EXPIRATION: 12/31/94 7715 Westview, Houston, Texas 77055 25 713/461-3804 193 CAROL DAVIS REPORTING, RECORDS & VIDEO, INC. EXHIBITS BOUND UNDER A SEPARATE COVER TRANSCRIPT AUTHORIZATION Carol Davis Reporting Records &V ideo. In c. Houston * Austin * San Antonio * Dallas * C orpus C hristi Rio G rande Valley * Beaumont * 800/753 - D epo DATE___ / a - 6 " V _____________________________ J08 NO.___ Q .____________________________________ W itness _ L . u 3|n;-H ^ ck-e/2^ D.ClA\____ I request the items checked from Carol D avis Reporting, Records & Video, Inc. My law firm or I personally w ill be responsible for reasonable, customary, and necessary charges and acknowledge the invoice is due and payable upon receipt. O r ig in a l A n d C o p y Ex h ib its C o n d e n s e d T r a n sc r ip t C o m p u te r 5 1/4- 3 1 /2 - DISKS: ASCII DISCOVERY Ex ped ite CATLINKS Sig n e d . ------------------ --------------- Bar No. _________________________________________________ C o p y O f D e p o sit io n e 'E x h ib it s ''C o n d e n s e d T r a n scr ip t C o m p u te r s 1/4" jSf 3 1/2 " Exped ite I AGREE TO THE STIPULATIONS CHECKED: P u r s u a n t T p : ____________________ RULES NOTICE SUBPOENA AGREEMENT ALUOBJECTIONS In ACCORDANCE WITH: f t TEXAS RULES FEDERAL RULES ^ t o P Y O f D e p o sit io n ^ E x h ib it s ^ X O N D E N S E D TRANSCRIPT C o m p u te r s 1/4" 3 1 /2 " DISKS: ^LA SCII DISCOVERY Ex ped ite CATLINKS SIGNATURE:_________________ Signature is Waived FT WlTNI ;s Reads a n d Signs Before a n y n o tary: READS ATTORNEY'S COPY AND SIGNS ORIGINAL PAGES READS ORIGINAL SENT TO ATTORNEY READS ORIGINAL SENT TO WITNESS AT ADDRESS: j^ C o P Y O f D ep o sitio n ^ E x h ib its p C o n d e n s e d T r a n scr ip t C o m pu ter 5 1/4" 3 1/2" DISKS; ' ASCII Dii Ex ped ite Sig n ed C o p y O f D ep o sitio n Ex h ib it s C o n d e n s e d T r a n scr ip t C om puter D isk s: 51/4 a sc ii 3 1/2 " d is c o v e r y Ex ped ite ca tlin k s Sig n e d ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ COMES TO REPORTER'S OFFICE JT'UNSIGNED, UNCORRECTED COPY MAY BE FILED IF THE JN AL DEPOSITION IS RELEASED FROM THE REPORTER'S POSSESSION AND IS NOT RETURNED FOR TIMELY FILING WITH THE CUSTODIAL ATTORNEY. COURT REPORTER ASSUMES NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE ORIGINAL TRANSCRIPT WHEN ATTORNEYS AGREE TO ITS RELEASE. C o p y O f D e p o sit io n Ex h ib it s C ondensed T ranscript C omputer s i/4- 31/2- DlSKS: ASCII DISCOVERY Ex ped ite CATLINKS Sig n e d ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -