Document 2NomjOdeB10ZwbN3jZykKna4g

1 1 NO. 95-04-1728-D 2 MANUEL P. GONZALES, ET AL 3 VS. 4 OWENS-CORNING FIBERGLAS 5 CORPORATION, ET AL ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF ) ) ) CAMERONCOUNTY, TEXAS ) ) ) 103RDJUDICIAL DISTRICT 6 7 8 ORAL/VIDEO DEPOSITION OF 9 EMIL MARTIN ZERR, JR. 10 11 12 ANSWERS AND ORAL/VIDEO DEPOSITION OF.EMIL MARTIN 13 ZERR, JR., a witness produced at the instance of the 14 Plaintiffs, taken in the aboye styled and numbered 15 cause on the 26th day of September, 1997, at 16 1:44 p.m., before LISA A. BERRY, a Certified Shorthand 17 Reporter in and for the State of Texas, at the offices 18 of Meredith, Donnell & Abernethy, located at 6850 19 Texas Commerce Tower, 600 Travis Street, in the City 20 of Houston, County of Harris, State of Texas, in 21 accordance with the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure, 22 the stipulations hereinafter set forth and pursuant to 23 Notice. 9 24 25 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 2 1 APPEARANCES 2 3 4 MR. C. ANDREW WATERS LAW OFFICES OF C. ANDREW WATERS 5 400 South Zang, Suite 1420 Dallas, Texas 75208 6 APPEARING FOR THE PLAINTIFFS 7 8 MS. PATRICIA KELLY ADAMS & GRAHAM, L.L.P. 9 222 E. Van Buren, West Tower P.O. Drawer 1429 10 Harlingen, Texas 78551 11 APPEARING FOR DEFENDANTS W.R. GRACE COMPANY AND 12 PITTSBURGH CORNING CORPORATION 13 MR. JAMES V. HEWITT 14 MR. ALAN MARKS MEREDITH, DONNELL & ABERNETHY 15 6850 Texas Commerce Tower 600 Travis 16 Houston, Texas 77002 17 APPEARING FOR DEFENDANT BROWN Sc ROOT USA, INC. 18 19 MR. R. HARDING ERWIN, JR. MATTHIESEN & CHASE, L.L.P. 20 3003 Eleven Greenway Plaza Houston, Texas 77046 21 APPEARING FOR DEFENDANT 22 ARM CO 23 ALSO PRESENT: 24 MR. DANIEL PARIS, VIDEOGRAPHER 25 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 3 1 2 INDEX 3 4 WITNESS: EMIL MARTIN ZERR, JR. 5 6 Examination by Mr. Waters..............................................Page 6 7 Examination by Mr. Erwin..............................................Page 70 8 Examination by Ms. Kelly..............................................Page 76 9 Re-Examination by Mr. Waters.......................................Page 78 10 11 Witness' Signature ........................................................ Page 91 12 Corrigendum.......................................................................... Page 92 13 Reporter's Certificate ............................................ Page 93 14 15 EXHIBITS: 16 1 List of general safety instructions Page 72 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 4 1 AGREEMENTS -< 2 3 AS PER RULE 11, the following agreements were 4 agreed to by and between the parties thereto, through 5 their respective attorneys appearing herein: 6 IT IS HEREBY agreed by and between the parties 7 hereto, through their attorneys appearing herein, that 8 any and all objections to any question, except as to 9 form, or answer, except as to responsiveness, 10 contained herein may be made upon the offering of this 11 deposition in evidence upon the trial of this cause 12 with the same force and effect as though the witness 13 were present in person and testifying from the witness 14 stand. 15 IT IS FURTHER agreed by and between the parties 16 hereto, that an objection made by one counsel for the 17 respective parties shall be considered good for all 18 other counsel present. 19 IT IS FURTHER agreed by and between the parties 20 hereto, through their attorneys appearing herein, that 21 this deposition may be signed before any Notary Public 22 and thereafter returned into Court and used upon the 23 trial of this cause with the same force 'and effect as 24 though all requirements of the Rules and Statutes with 25 reference to signature and return had been fully DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 5 1 complied with. 2 IT IS FURTHER agreed by and between the parties 3 hereto, through their attorneys appearing herein, that 4 if the deposition is not signed and filed prior to any 5 hearing in this cause, that said deposition or a 6 certified copy thereof may be used on the trial of 7 this cause with the same force and effect as though 8 the same had been read and signed by the said witness. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 a 23 24 25 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 6 1 PROCEEDINGS .i 2 *** 3 MR. HEWITT: Again, I want to again 4 note that these witnesses, including 5 Mr. Steve Sellers, who we presented for 6 deposition yesterday, he was produced 7 pursuant to the court's instructions 8 relative to a response to the plaintiffs ' 9 corporate deposition notice to 10 Brown & Root with respect to some of the 11 subject matter areas contained within that 12 deposition notice, as was Mr. Pete Johnson 13 this morning. 14 Mr. Johnson, of course, is not a 15 current Brown & Root employee and not 16 subject to our control; but he did agree 17 to voluntarily appear and had some 18 relative knowledge, relative to some of 19 those subject matter areas. And the same 20 is true with respect to Mr. Emil Zerr, who 21 is being produced for deposition today. 22 MR. WATERS: Okay. 23 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are on record 24 at 1:44 p.m. This is the videotaped 25 deposition of Emil Martin Zerr, Jr., in DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 7 1 the matter of ManueJ. P. Gonzales versus 2 Owens-Corning Fiberglas. Today's date is 3 September 26th, 1997. This deposition is 4 being taken at Meredith, Donnell & 5 Abernethy, 600 Travis, Suite 6850, 6 Houston, Texas. The videographer is 7 Daniel Paris from Diana Henjum Reporting 8 Service. Would counsel please announce 9 their appearances for the record. 10 MR. WATERS: Andy Waters for the 11 plaintiffs. 12 MR. ERWIN: Harding Erwin for 13 Armco. 14 MR. HEWITT: Jim Hewitt and Alan 15 Marks for Brown & Root. 16 MS. KELLY: Trish Kelly for 17 Pittsburgh Corning and W.R. Grace. 18 EMIL MARTIN ZERR, JR., 19 called as a witness, having been first duly sworn, was 20 examined and testified upon his oath as follows: 21 * * * 22 EXAMINATION 23 * * * 24 BY MR. WATERS: 25 Q. Would you state your full name for the DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 8 1 record, sir? -< 2 A. Emil Martin Zerr, Jr. 3 Q. Mr. Zerr, how old a man are you. sir? 4 A. How old? 5 Q. Yes . 6 A. I'm 66. 7 Q. Have you ever given a deposition before ? 8 A. A long time ago. 9 Q. Okay. Was it a case that involved 10 asbestos in any way? 11 A. No, no. 12 Q. Do you understand the purpose of the 13 deposition is for us to ask questions in this instance 14 about Brown & Root and your work with Brown & Root? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Okay. If for any reason I ask a question 17 that you don't understand or that -- that you want to 18 be rephrased, would you ask me to do that? 19 A. Yes . 20 Q. How are you presently employed? 21 A. I'm not. I'm retired. 22 Q. Retired. What was your most recent 23 employment ? 24 A. I retired in December of '95. 25 Q. And what was your position at the time you DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 9 1 retired? ^ 2 A. At the time I retired, I was chief 3 operating officer. 4 Q. For? 5 A. Brown & Root. 6 Q. Can you describe for me the nature of your 7 duties and re -- nature of your duties and 8 responsibilities as a chief operating officer? 9 A. I was chief operating officer, as I said, 10 at the time I retired; and thatstarted in '92 to '95, 11 was the period of time. As chief operating officer, 12 basically all operations of the company were under my 13 responsibility. Keep in mind, I had a number of 14 people reporting to me. 15 Q. Okay. And a's chief operations officer, to 16 whom would you report? 17 A. Reported to the president of the company. 18 Q. And who was that? 19 A. At that time, it was Tommy Knight. 20 Q. Did you report to anyone else directly, 21 besides Mr. Knight? 22 A. Not at the time I was chief operating 23 officer. 24 Q. Does that make you the number two officer 25 for the company in that time frame? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 10 1 A. In that time frame,,yes. 2 Q. And let -- we'll come back to that, but 3 what were you doing before 1992? 4 A. Well, going back how far? 5 Q. Let's take it one step at a time. What 6 was your immediate prior position? 7 A. Prior the that, I was president of one of 8 the operating units. 9 Q. Which one was that? 10 A. That was called the Forest Products at 11 MAPI Business Unit. 12 Q. And for how long a period did you have 13 that position? 14 A. From 1986 up until '92. 15 Q. Okay. Let's go back a little further. 16 Before 1986, what position did you have? 17 A. We had a reorganization in '86. Prior to 18 that, I was the president of -- notthe president, but 19 I was the senior vice president over one of the 20 business units. We did not have presidents and so 21 forth before that time. So, I was -- basically had a 22 similar position, but did not have that same title. 23 Q. What was the business unit that you 24 were -25 A. It was same, Forest Products and MAPI. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 11 1 Q. And mapping? ^ 2 A. MAPI, M-A-P-P-I (sic), which stood for 3 Manufacturing and Process Industries.. 4 Q. For how long a period were you senior vice 5 president for that business unit? 6 A. I'm trying to remember. 19 -- about '83. 7 Q. So, from 'about '83 to about '86 before 8 you became president? 9 A. Of -- yes, of that unit. 10 Q. All right. What about immediately prior 11 to your work as senior VP of the business unit? 12 A. I was senior VP of one of the operating 13 divisions. 14 Q. Which one? 15 A. The same one. Wejust changed titles, 16 MAPI and Forest Products. 17 Q. Okay. All right. And for how long a 18 period of time were you in that position? 19 A. From 1979 to '83. 20 Q. Just so I'm trying to be clear on this, 21 what's the difference from what you were doing from 22 '79 to '83 and from '83 to '86? 23 A. The scope of -- of responsibility was a 24 little bit larger with the presidents, because prior 25 to that we had an engineering division; and with, that DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 12 1 reorganization that took place,^engineering was -- 2 became part of the operating group. So, it no longer 3 was just a construction division. It became a total 4 engineering and construction operation. 5 Q. And were you responsible for all aspects 6 of that operation? 7 A. All aspects of that operation during that 8 period of time. 9 Q. And were you accountable to the senior 10 executive officers -- officer of Brown & Root with 11 respect to those activities and those particular 12 businesses? 13 A. - Yes. I reported to the -- to the then 14 chief operating officer, which would be the senior 15 executive officer. 16 Q. The position that you ultimately filled? 17 A. The position I ultimately filled in '92. 18 Q. Prior to 1979, what was your position? 19 A. I was a senior vice president over what we 20 called at that time industrial civil division; and I 21 was in that position from '70 --'74 to '79. 22 Q. Did that work include construction and 23 maintenance contracts at various industrial 24 facilities? 25 A. It include -- included construction work. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 13 1 Q. What about -- did it include capital 2 improvement work? 3 A. Capital improvement work, as well as new 4 projects, yes. 5 Q. What about maintenance contracts? 6 A. Maintenance contracts were done with what 7 we called our industrial maintenance division, 8 industrial services. That -- that particular group 9 handled all the maintenance for the various plants. 10 Now - - 11 Q. Go ahead. I'm sorry. 12 A. -- prior to -- we got all these dates 13 going in here, and keep in mind, we went through a 14 number of different reorganizations within the . 15 company. And the industrial services'group, which was 16 our maintenance operation, was established as a 17 separate maintenance group in '70 --I think it was 18 '79, if I'm not mistaken; but don't -- I'm not 19 positive about that year, but it was about that time. 20 Prior to that, the various divisions we did have 21 served some maintenance within their own operations . 22 Q. 9 23 A. Including the industrial civil division? Including the industrial civil division. 24 Q. So from the time frame '74 to '79 that you 25 were involved in the industrial civil division, its DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 14 1 work would have included some degree of maintenance 2 work at various facilities? 3 A. It would have included certain maintenance 4 work in certain facilities. 5 Q. Okay. In the '74 to '79 time frame, do 6 you recall one way or another whether it included 7 maintenance work at the Armco Steel facility? 8 A. To my knowledge, we did no maintenance 9 work at Armco Steel. 10 Q. All of the work that -- that was ongoing 11 at Armco Steel in that time frame would have been in 12 the nature of capital improvement? 13 A. It would be in the nature of capital 14 improvements, some small, some large; but it was all 15 construction work. 16 Q. And how is it that you recall that with 17 such specificity? 18 A. Because we had separate maintenance 19 contracts and separate con -- construction contracts. 20 Q. All right. And were the maintenance 21 contracts maintained by the industrial civil division 22 as well? 23 A. During the period of -- of that time, yes, 24 we had certain maintenance contracts, up until we 25 established the -- the maintenance division. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 15 1 Q. Okay. Were there aJLso other maintenance 2 contracts that were handled by another division? 3 A. Yes. Each division at that time, if they 4 had maintenance contracts within the -- the type of 5 work they performed, then they would be doing the 6 maintenance work, but under a maintenance contract. 7 Q. All right. What other divisions would 8 have had occasion to have maintenance -- do 9 maintenance work or have a maintenance contract? 10 A. Well, the division I mentioned, which was 11 industrial civil, that I was involved in. 12 Q. Right. 13 A. The petrochemical division, the power 14 division. 15 Q. All right. Others? 16 A. Those would be the only three that I can 17 recall. 18 Q. And the industrial civil division, would 19 that have included Forest Products Manufacturing? 20 A. It would includeForest Products 21 Manufacturing; and at that time Forest Products was 22 probably our largest industrial maintenance operation, a 23 was in Forest Products Industry. 24 Q. Okay. So, there was -- was there a 25 significant amount of maintenance -- maintenance DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 16 1 contract work ongoing at various paper mills, paper 2 plants, that sort of thing? 3 A. Yes, yes. 4 Q. Do you recall, for example, that there was 5 work ongoing at the Champion Paper Mill in Lufkin, 6 Texas? 7 A. No, I don't recall maintenance work going 8 on at Lufkin at that time. 9 Q. Okay. Do you recall maintenance work 10 going on in the Champion plant in Pasadena? ii A. No, not at the Pasadena plant. 12 Q. I'll put it to you this way: What -- what 13 paper mills do you recall -- 14 A. Okay. 15 Q. -- where you hadmaintenance contracts 16 going on? 17 A. The -- what is Champion Papers now, but at 18 that time was called Southland Paper Mill . 19 Q. In which place? 20 A. It's just outside Houston, on Sheldon 21 Road. 22 Q. Uh-huh. 23 A. At the -- I'm trying to think during that 24 same period of time -- at the Weyerhaeuser mill in 25 Oklahoma. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 17 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. At that time the International Paper mill 3 in Mansfield, Louisiana. Those are the only three 4 I can remember right now. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. I'd have to, you know, get back and 7 refresh 8 Q. Right. 9 A. -- my mind. 10 Q. Well, it would be helpful to you in this 11 regard, I take it, to review documents to determine 12 what contracts may have been out there? 13 A. Well, it would certainly help my 14 remembering, yes. 15 Q. As -- as a part of this case or as part of 16 coming here to testify, have you reviewed any 17 documents ? 18 A. Reviewed any documents? 19 Q. Yes, sir. 20 A. Not really, no. 21 Q. Okay. Has -- has the attorney for 22 Brown & Root asked you to look at any documents in e 23 order to prepare for your deposition? 24 A. Not -- not really. I looked at a couple 25 of -- of -- of papers, but nothing of any specific DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 18 1 nature. 2 Q. Okay. .4 3 A. Mainly to understand what this deposition 4 was about. 5 Q. What kind of papers did you look at? 6 A. Oh, there was a couple of contract files; 7 but I -- I just glanced through them just to refresh 8 my mind. 9 Q. Okay. Is it fair to say that the last 10 time you would have had any systematic reason to 11 review contract documents pertaining to the 1970s 12 would have been back in the '70s? 13 A. Pertaining to the 1970s? 14 Q. Yes, sir. 15 A. I'm not sure if I understand exactly what 16 you're asking. 17 Q. I'm just curious if, since -- since '79, 18 when you left that particular position, if you would 19 have had any reason or occasion to go back and review 20 contract documents from that time frame? 21 A. I can 11t think of any. 22 Q- Okay. Let's talk some more about the ' 74 23 tS '79 time frame. Can you just generally describe 24 for me what your duties and job responsibilities 25 entailed on a continuing or day-to-day basis? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 19 1 A. All right. Basically, I was in charge of .4 2 all the construction for that particular division, 3 which was the industrial civil division, from '74 4 through '79. 5 Q. And I take it from that response that you 6 did not have any responsibilities related to whatever 7 maintenance work that division may have been doing? 8 A. What little maintenance work we were 9 doing, I did have responsibility for, yes. 10 Q. Oh, you did. Okay. So, in addition to 11 construction responsibility, new construction, you had 12 responsibility for whatever maintenance work was going 13 on? 14 A. With that division. 15 Q. Yes, sir. And when you say that you had 16 responsibility for all the construction and 17 maintenance work, what does that mean? What does that 18 entail? How are you spending your time? 19 A. Well, a numberof ways. 20 Q . I imagine. 21 A. Generally, all of the projects that we had 22 ongoing were reporting in to me -- not directly, but 23 through other people *!Ln to me. I had construction 24 managers that these various job sites reported to, and 25 those managers then directly reported to me. But I DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 20 1 was responsible for making sure that the work was .1 2 being performed according to the contracts through 3 these people, reviewing -- reviewing their -- their 4 contracts, and also reviewing their -- their reports 5 on the jobs, relative to -- to the cost and the 6 schedule of the work. 7 Q. Did you have -8 A. And also the responsibility to make sure 9 the jobs were manned. 10 Q. Okay. So, as a result of those duties, 11 did -- would you have maintained a continuing 12 relationship with Brown & Root project supervisors and 13 other supervisory personnel at the job sites? 14 A. Not directly. There were just too many 15 projects going on. 16 Q. Give me a sense of that, if you can, back 17 in the '74 to '79 time frame -- well, maybe we can 18 take it '74 all the way to '83, that's a little -19 little broader. How many projects were you 20 responsible for at a given time? Are we talking about 21 hundreds of projects? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. At any given time? 24 A. At any given time. Keep in mind some of 25 them were quite small-, and the -- the major projects DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 21 1 were, you know, were -- were of a nature that they .4 2 took up the biggest volume of work as far as dollars 3 are concerned; but there was a number of small 4 proj ects. 5 Q. Were you responsible for the projects 6 being completed in a satisfactory fashion and turning 7 a profit for Brown & Root? 8 A. Ultimately. 9 Q. And of the hundreds of projects you would 10 have had at any given time over that period, were many 11 of those out of state or -- or around the world? 12 A. They were mostly -- none of them were 13 outside of the country at that time. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. They were all within the country. 16 Q. Okay. 17 A. But they werescattered throughout the 18 various states. 19 Q. And as I understand it, there would have 20 been some -- were you at the Clinton Drive facility -- 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. -- headquarters? Okay. And at the 23 corporate headquarters, would there have been someone 24 else there who reported to you that was sort of in 25 between you and the actual project in the chain of DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 22 1 command? 2 A. Yes. .i 3 Q. Okay. And of the persons that reported to 4 you, were they divided, did they divide the projects 5 in a geographical sense or in some other way? 6 A. Not necessarily. Generally, we were 7 divided such that who best fits those particular jobs, 8 has the, you know, the background associated with that 9 kind of work. 10 Q. I mean, did you have someone there, for 11 example, who was involved with the projects having to 12 do with steel mills, as opposed to the projects that 13 had to do with paper mills? 14 A. We really didn't have that many steel -- 15 steel mill operations going on. There was only two 16 steel mills. 17 Q. And where were those? 18 A. One was in Houston, which was the Armco 19 facility. The other one was in Lone Star, Texas; and 20 those two facilities did not report in to the same 21 manager. 22 Q. Okay. Who was the manager to whom the 23 Armco Steel project reported? 24 A. Ollie Bokken. 25 Q. B-o-k-k-e-n? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 23 1 A. Yes. *4 2 Q. And so Mr. Bokken, he would then report to 3 you? 4 A. Yes . 5' Q. And for how long a period of time do you 6 recall Mr. Bokken was -- well, what would his position. 7 have been? What would you have called him? 8 A. He was vice president. He became vice 9 president about the '74, '75 period of time. 10 Q. Did you recommend him for that position? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Prior to 1974, did he have any -- any 13 involvement or responsibility for the Armco projects? 14 A. Only with regard to the contracts. He was 15 contract manager. 16 Q. Okay. And what does the contract manager 17 do? 18 A. The contract manager is responsible for 19 reviewing and also acquiring contracts . 20 Q. How long had Mr. Bokken been contract 21 manager with responsibility for the Armco site? 22 A. Quite some time. I can't recall exactly 23 how long. Keep in mind, I did not come into the 24 office until '71, and so my knowledge of his 25 involvement with Armco -- Armco would not have been DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 24 1 prior to '71. 2 Q. All right. And where was it -- tell -- we 3 didn't get there quite yet; but in '71, how was it 4 that you became -- became involved with that work? 5 A. Well, the -- I was promoted to -- to an 6 officer of the company in '71, and became responsible 7 for most of the industrial projects that were going on 8 within the division. At that time, Armco was not 9 reporting to me. 10 Q. That is to say, '71? 11 A. 1 71. 12 Q. Okay. Was it not until '74 that Armco 13 began to report to you? 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. Did you have -16 A. But again, through Mr. Bokken. 17 Q. Right. Did you have any involvement or 18 knowledge about the Armco projects in the '71 through 19 '74 time frame? 20 A. Not directly, but I would certainly hear 21 reports about the work, about how it was going; but 22 I had no direct communication with the project. 23 Q. Did you understand, or did you come to 24 understand that Brown & Root had been doing work at 25 the Armco facility since the 1950s? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 25 1 A. Yes, I was aware of that. 2 Q. Did you understand, that Arraco had built, 3 constructed the majority of the plant and the plant 4 operations? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Well, in the '71 to '74 time frame, to 7 whom would the Armco project folks report? 8 A. To Mr. Lawrence Derrick, who -- he was in 9 charge of that industrial civil division. 10 Q. Okay. Is he still alive? 11 A. No. He passed away a couple of years ago. 12 Q. When was the last time you spoke to 13 Mr. Bokken? 14 A. Probably five or six months ago. 15 Q. Have you had any discussions with him 16 about this case? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Can you tell me what capital improvement 19 projects may have been ongoing at the Armco facility 20 from '74 to '83, if any? 21 A. Oh, there were several going on. I just 22 really can't remember the exact dates on some of them. 23 We had a -- we had a continuing contract that we0did a 24 -- a lot of work from as work orders were given to us 25 from Armco; and I really don't recall any of the DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 26 1 specifics associated with those. 2 We did do some major capital projects; and 3 I can't recall the exact dates. I'd have to review, 4 you know, the -- the contract papers on it, but we did 5' a reduction -- a direct reduction mill that I think 6 was in that period of time, in the early '70s. We -7 we constructed a wide flange mill, but it might have 8 been prior to that period of time. 9 Q. In the late '60s perhaps? 10 A. Yeah, probably the late '60s. Most of 11 the -- I think we also did some electric furnaces 12 during that period of time, as far as major capital 13 projects concerned. We did a multitude of smaller, 14 you know, projects. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. And I don't recall any of the specifics on 17 those. 18 Q. And there was, as I understood your 19 earlier testimony, there was a continuing contractual 20 arrangement, had been for some time, for many years 21 with Brown & Root, and these projects were done as the 22 work orders were received from Armco? 23 A. That's correct. 24 Q. Okay. So you didn't necessarily have a 25 distinct and separate contract for each and every DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 27 1 project? 2 A. Not -- not on the small projects like 3 that. On the major projects, yes. 4 Q. Okay. But the small projects would tend 5 to just come under the general agreement between the 6 companies for smaller projects, routine-type work? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. And you're not in a position, as you sit 9 here today, to, I guess, really begin to try to 10 catalogue what those smaller projects may have been? 11 A. No, I'm not. 12 Q. Those would varyfrom day to day and week 13 to week? 14 A. They would vary, yes. They -- some of 15 them would be quite small, and some would get, you 16 know, fairly last and would last a, you know, a few 17 months' period of time. 18 Q. Am I correct that in the '50s, '60s, and 19 through the '70s into the '80s, Brown & Root routinely 2 0 maintained a significant work force at the facility? 21 A. It would fluctuate up and down,depending 22 on the workload that Armco had issued to us. 23 Q. Okay. Can you give me a sense of the -- 24 the degree of fluctuation, the highs and lows that you 25 might recall? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 28 1 A. Oh, gosh. When we hadmajorprojects 2 going on, we had hundreds of people out there. 3 Q. Right. 4 A. And while there were no major projects 5 going on, we might have been down to 20 or 30 people 6 at a time. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. So, I -- that's about as close as I 9 could -- 10 Q. That's fine. 11 A. -- as I could come. 12 Q. What were you doing prior to '71? 13 A. Whatwas I doing? 14 Q. Yes, sir. 15 A. Prior to that, I spent time out in the 16 filed as a project manager on various projects. And 17 in 1971, specifically, I was project manager out at 18 Rohm & Haas, Deer Park. 19 Q. As a project manager, did you understand 20 that it was necessary for Brown & Root to accept and 21 follow whatever safety requirements the premises owner 22 had? 23 A. Yes, we did; and we had our own safety 24 requirements. 25 Q. Okay. Did you ever do any work at the DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 29 1 Exxon Baytown facility? 2 A. Personally, no; but Brown & Root did a lot 3 of work out there. 4 Q. And Brown & Root similarly had a long-term 5 relationship with Exxon and had folks out there over 6 the years? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Based on your experience at Rohm & Haas 9 and some of these other facilities, do you believe 10 that Brown & Root would have been aware of Exxon 1s 11 safety requirements with respect to the Baytown 12 facility? 13 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 14 overbroad, vague, speculative form of that 15 question. Assumes facts not in evidence. 16 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answer. 17 A. Let me answer that in a -- in a general 18 fashion. We, as Brown & Root, had our own specific 19 safety requirements. And we would -- we would use our 20 own safety requirements with respect to protecting our 21 own people; and we had that responsibility. 22 Q. Well, what about -- 23 A. We would also obey any regulations that 24 pertained to us within an existing facility, whether r 25 it be Exxon or -- or Champion Paper. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 30 1 Q. All right. So, with respect to Exxon or 2 Champion Paper, the Brown & Root folks, in addition to 3 their'own safety rules and regulations, they would be 4 aware of and follow safety rules and regulations for 5. the premises owner? 6 MR. HEWITT: Objection; overbroad 7 and speculative. 8 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answer. 9 A. I'm -- I'm not sure I fully understand 10 your question. 11 MR. WATERS: Okay. Can you read 12 that one back to him? 13 (The requested material was read by 14 the reporter.) 15 A. We would only obey the safety regulations 16 and only had knowledge of those associated with the 17 work that we were performing. What other safety 18 regulations a plant might have relative to their own 19 employees or their own operations, we were not 20 involved in. 21 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) And was that your 22 recollection of company policy with respect to the 23 safety regulations of the premises owners? 24 A. Yes. f' 25 Q. Okay. It was necessary for you-all to DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 31 1 follow the Brown & Root safety requirements, but you 2 were less concerned about whatever requirements the 3 premises owner may have had? 4 MR. HEWITT: Objection; 5 mischaracterization of his testimony. 6 It's a misleading question. 7 Q. (BY MR . WATERS) You can answer. 8 A. I ' m not sure I fully understand what you 9 are asking. 10 MR. WATERS: Okay. Can you read it 11 back to him, please? 12 (The requested material was read by 13 the reporter.) 14 A. As I said earlier, we obeyed the safety 15 regulations as it pertained to our work, but not -16 not that we weren't concerned, but we didn't have 17 knowledge of the rest of the safety regulations within 18 an operating plant. 19 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You did not have 2 0 knowledge of those? 21 A. No. We have no -- we are doing a specific 22 job in a specific piece of a plant. What safety 23 regulations may apply to some other facility within 24 that plant, we are not aware of, as it relates to the 25 operations of that facility. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 32 1 Q. What if the premises owner has regulations 2 or requirements that pertain to the specific job that 3 you may be performing? 4 A. Those would be provided to us, and we 5 would -- we would obey those regulations as they 6 applied to our work and the protection of our people. 7 Q. Okay. So to the extent that Brown & Root 8 employees may have had to do work that related to 9 asbestos, if the premises owner had regulations or 10 requirements that pertained to asbestos, you would 11 expect that the Brown & Root supervisors would be 12 aware of that? 13 MR. HEWITT: Objection; overbroad 14 and vague. 15 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Do you need that one read 16 back to you? 17 A. I -- I think do. I'm not sure exactly 18 what you are asking. 19 Q. That's fine. 20 MR. WATERS: You can read it back. 21 (The requested material was read by 22 the reporter.) 23 A. Dealing with-- withworking with 24 asbestos, I presume you're talking about insulation? 25 Q. Uh-huh. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 33 1 A. Yes. OSHA regulations were established in 2 the -- in the early '70s. We -- we certainly obliged 3 to the OSHA regulations, and we performed no asbestos 4 installation after that period. 5 MR. WATERS: Okay. Let me object 6 as nonresponsive. 7 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Did you understand my 8 question had to do with work at premises -- nothing to 9 do with the regulations, but if the premises owner had 10 a specific policy about asbestos. I didn't say 11 anything about after 1972. Okay? I'm asking you if 12 you were doing those type of operations in a premises 13 where the premises owner had some requirements or 14 regulations about work around asbestos, do you believe 15 that you would have known of.those? 16 MR. HEWITT: Objection; 17 argumentative and overbroad and vague. 18 You can -- you can answer the question. 19 A. I'm not sure whether we would -- we would 20 know what they provided us, yes. 21 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. So, if for 22 example, Exxon provided you with information in 1965 23 that asbestos was a hazardous substance and needed to 24 be worked around with some degree of car.e, then you 25 would have attempted to follow that? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 34 1 A. Oh, yes. 2 MR. HEWITT: Object to the form of 3 that question on the grounds that it 4 assumes facts not in evidence. It's 5 speculative and overbroad. 6 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Can you reanswer in light 7 of the objection? 8 THE WITNESS: Read that again. 9 THE REPORTER: The answer or the 10 question? 11 THE WITNESS: The question. 12 (The requested material was read by 13 the reporter.) 14 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Is that your answer, yes? 15 A. If they would provide something to us of 16 that nat ure, because at that time, we weren't really 17 aware of any problems with asbestos. 18 MR. WATERS: Object to the 19 nonresponsive portion. 20 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) How long were you project 21 manager at Rohm & Haas? 22 A. From early '68 through May of '71. 23 Q. Do you have a recollection one way or 24 another as to whether or not Rohm & Haas had a safety r 25 program related to asbestos hazards at that time? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 35 1 A. They had a safety program, but I can't be 2 specific on whether it specifically related to that. 3 Q. Okay. What did you do before the 4 & Haas work? 5 A. Prior to that, I was building a paper 6 mill 7 Q. Where was that? 8 A. Up in Evadale, Texas. 9 Q. Evadale? 10 A. Evadale. 11 Q. Where is Evadale, Texas? 12 A. It' s in Jasper County, just about 30 miles 13 from Beaumont. 14 Q. Do you recall the premises owner? 15 A. Eastex, Incorporated, currently owned by 16 Temple, Eastex. 17 Q. And how long did that project last? 18 A. I was there from late '66 through the end 19 of '67. I went directly from there to Rohm & Haas. 20 Q. Were you project manager for that job? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And before that? 23 A. Before that, I was at Armco Steel from 24 around mid-'65 to the fall of '66. 25 Q. And were you the project managerthere? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 36 1 A. I was the project manager of one capital 2 project, which was the mechanical installation of two 3 electric furnaces. 4 Q. Big project? 5. A. Sizable. 6 Q. Took a couple of years to complete? 7 A. Yes. I -- in fact, I left before the 8 project was complete because I had to go to the paper 9 mill job. 10 Q. In addition to your particular project, 11 were there other projects going on at that same time 12 at Armco? 13 A. At Armco, yes. 14 Q. And how many employees approximately were 15 involved with your particular project? 16 A. Well, at the time I was there, we probably 17 had about 150 people. It -- it probably grew a little 18 bit more than that after I left. Keep in mind, I -- I 19 left at the -- at the middle of the project. 20 Q. Now, again, and that's -- and that's the 21 number of employees just on that -22 A. Just on that one job, uh-huh. 23 Q. And there would have been other 24 Brown & Root employees on other jobs? 25 A. On other jobs, yes. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 37 1 Q. Do you have any recollection, as you sit 2 here today, of the nature of the other Brown & Root 3 projects that were ongoing at that time? 4 A. One of the specific projects we were doing 5 separately under a separate contract, the foundations 6 in the building for that electric furnace. 7 Q. Okay. But that was -- that was a separate 8 proj ect? 9 A. It was a separate -- separate project. 10 Q. And in building the two electric furnaces, 11 do you recall that Brown & Root was involved with the 12 insulation of steam piping? 13 A. I don't recall the exact insulation 14 requirements on that job. We were not the engineer, 15 and the engineer specifies the -- the specifications 16 for insulation and of construction materials; but 17 insulation had not started at the time I left. 18 Q. Oh, okay. That process would have been 19 completed in '67 or '68? 20 A. Probably in '67. I'm not sure exactly 21 when it was completed, but after I left. 22 Q. Have you observed previously, workers, 23 insulation workers in the field? 24 A. Repeat that question please. 25 Q. Have you observed insulation workers in DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 38 1 the field? 2 MR. HEWITT: Objection; overbroad 3 and vague, no specification as to 4 geographic location or time period. 5 A. On that particular job? 6 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Just generally. 7 A. Normally, we subcontracted our insulation. 8 Naturally, I saw insulators doing insulation work, 9 especially when I was in the field because I was 10 responsible to make sure it got done. 11 Q. Right. 12 A. So, I had to observe it. 13 Q. Okay. And maybe what we should do is, 14 let's see. When did you first start working for 15 Brown & Root? 16 A. When did Ifirst startworking? 17 Q. Yes, sir. 18 A. In 1957. 19 Q. Okay. Priorto starting with Brown & Root 20 in '57, had you ever observed insulation workers in 21 the field? 22 A. No . 23 Q. Okay. So, when you first observed that 24 process, that was part of your work for .Brown & Root? r 25 A. Yes. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 39 1 Q. Did you start as a craftsman of some sort? 2 A. No. I started off as an engineer. 3 Q. Okay. Do you recall where it was that you 4 first observed an insulation worker working in the 5 field? 6 A. Yes. It was in -- when I was on a project 7 in -- outside of Waco, Texas, on a power plant. 8 Q. For Texas Power & Light? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Which plant wasthat? 11 A. Lake Creek. 12 Q. Lake Creek. And what type of insulation 13 were the insulation workers working with? Was it pipe 14 covering or -15 A. It was pipe covering. I can't recall 16 what -- what type of insulation. It was pipe 17 covering, though. 18 Q. In fairness, are you familiar with any of 19 the brand names of the pipe covering insulation? 20 A. Not the brand names. I -- I know there's 21 certain manufacturers of -- of various insulation; but 22 I'm not familiar with all the brand names. 23 Q. Can you tell me any of the manufacturer 24 names that you are familiar with from the past? 25 A. Well, there's -- there's Owens-Corning, DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 40 1 Johns-Manville. Those are the two that stick in ray 2 mind. 3 Q. Let me ask you if you are familiar with 4 one called Pittsburgh Corning? 5 A. Yes, I've heard the name. 6 Q. Are you familiar with insulationmaterials 7 from a company called W.R. Grace? 8 A. I know the company, but I'm not familiar 9 specifically with the insulation. 10 Q. Fair enough. Are you familiarwith what 11 refractory products are? 12 A. Generally. 13 Q. Okay. And do Brown & -- Brown & Root 14 workers from time to time, in the context of building 15 steel mills, anyway, utilize refractory product? 16 A. We only use it when it's a requirement of 17 the job; but it's specifically subcontracted. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. It's not a -- it's not a -- a part of the 20 construction that we perform with our own people. 21 Q. You subcontract that out tosomebody more 22 specialized? 23 A. Yes, uh-huh. 24 Q. In that capacity, are you familiar with a 25 company called North American Refractories Company or DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 41 1 Narco? 2 A. I'm familiar with the name. 3 Q. Okay. And in your experience, are 4 refractory products used extensively at steel mills 5 and hot metal facilities? 6 MR. ERWIN: Objection; vague, 7 ambiguous, overbroad. 8 A. Any -- any facility that has extreme 9 heats, you're going to have some sort of refractory. 10 Paper mills have it in their -- in their -- not the 11 furnaces, but their kilns. 12 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Uh-huh. 13 A. Steel mills have it in some of their 14 furnaces, yes. 15 Q. Who is the, if you can recall, a 16 contractor that you would have contracted that type of 17 work out to? 18. A. Normally, we subcontracted that out to 19 J.T. Thorpe. There's others, too, but Thorpe is one 20 that sticks in my mind. 21 Q. Do you recall, would Thorpe.have been a 22 contractor that you would have used out at Armco? 23 A. Could have been. 24 Q. Not sure one way or the other? 25 A. Not positive, but Thorpe is one we used. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 42 1 Q. Did Brown & Root have a class or a craft 2 of employees called insulators? 3 A. We used to do some insulation, but because 4 of the -- the lack of continuity of work, we mostly 5 subbed it out. t 6 Q. Okay. 7 A. And we subbed out most of the work that we 8 did not have a continuity of work, because it's such a 9 problem hiring and -- and firing people all the time, 10 much easier when we had the -- the common types of 11 crafts such as carpentry and pipefitting and 12 electrical work where we could move them from job to 13 job. Those are the work -- the jobs that we -- or the 14 crafts that we did ourselves. 15 Q. Have you ever had anypersonalinvolvement 16 with maintenance contract work as opposed to capital 17 improvement work or new construction work? 18 A. I was never on any maintenance work. I am 19 familiar with some of the maintenance contracts. 20 Q. Any -- any maintenance contracts in 21 particular with which you have familiarity? 22 A. Well, as --as mentioned earlier, the -- 23 the maintenance contract we had for for the Southland 24 mill. 25 Q. 3r- Uh-huh. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 43 1 A. The Weyerhaeuser facility. We had several 2 maintenance contracts along the Ship Channel at some 3 of the petrochemical complexes. 4 Q. Any others, as you sit here today that you 5. can think of, that you would have had familiarity with 6 at one time? 7 A. Not any -- any greater familiarity than -- 8 than I had at those particular ones I mentioned. 9 Q. Okay. The projects '65 to '66 -- well, 10 strike that. What were you doing before that, 11 before 12 A. Before '65? 13 Q. Yes, sir. 14 A. I was at -- at the Pasadena mill at 15 Champion, putting in a paper machine there. 16 Q. Okay. For how long? 17 A. ' 64 up until probably the early part of 18 ' 65 . 19 Q. In the course of your observations of 20 insulators doing their work, have you seen or have you 21 observed the cutting or sawing of -- of pipe covering 22 in order to fit? 23 MR. HEWITT: Object to the form of 24 that question to the extent .it's overbroad 25 and vague. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 44 1 A. I personally really never watched the 2 insulators that close as to how they, you know, fit 3 their -- their material on the pipe. 4 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Did you have -5 you didn't ever stop to observe and determine whether 6 or not, for example, the process of cutting that -7 those products could produce dust? 8 A. I never really noticed that. I mean, 9 I didn't look for that. 10 Q. Right. When did you first come to 11 understand that asbestos was hazardous? 12 A. When the OSHA regulations came out. 13 Q. Okay. And did you learn that from within 14 the organization? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Had you known in the '60s that most of the 17 thermal insulation materials were asbestos? 18 MR. ERWIN: Objection; calls for 19 speculation, misstates the evidence, 20 mischaracterizes the evidence. 21 MR. HEWITT: Overbroad and vague. 22 A. I really didn't pay that much attention to 23 what the specifications were at that time. 24 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Well -25 A. We didn't do much of our own insulation. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 45 1 It just wasn't one of the things that I was that close 2 to. 3 MR. WATERS: Okay. Objection; 4 nonresponsive. 5 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Are you telling me, then, 6 that you were not aware, before OSHA, that insulation 7 contained asbestos? 8 A. No, I'm -- I'm just saying that I was not 9 aware of what insulation was being used and in which 10 locations. I was aware, yes, there was some asbestos 11 insulation, yes. 12 Q. Okay. But you did not know anything about 13 asbestos being a hazard at that time? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Or causing cancer orany of that? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Did you receive some training from the 18 safety folks after OSHA came out? 19 A. There was -- there was training supplied 20 by our safety department after that came out. 21 Q. Did you participate in that? 22 A. I didn'tparticularly -- personally 23 participate in it. My job did not require for me to 24 be trained in itr because I wasn't personally handling 2 5 any of it. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 46 1 Q. Okay. And you were, at that point in 2 time, I guess, infrequently at the job sites? 3 A. At that time I was on certain job sites, 4 but we weren't doing any asbestos insulation. 5 Q. Did you understand that there was -- there 6 were available nonasbestos substitutes that could be 7 used for insulation purposes after 1971? 8 A. Yes, because that's all that was being 9 used after that period of time. 10 Q. Okay. In terms of your own personal 11 knowledge, what you learned at -- at work or as part 12 of the -- part of your experience with Brown & Root, 13 concerning the hazards of asbestos, would that have 14 come to you in the form of memoranda or circulars from 15 corporate safety folks or something like that? 16 A. Yes. Our -- our safety departments put 17 out memorandums as a part -- concerning the 18 requirements of OSHA. 19 Q. Okay. So there's -- there's no doubt in 20 your mind that -- that you as well as the folks that 21 worked under you would have been fully aware of OSHA 22 and what the requirements were? 23 A. Once OSHA put them out, yes. 24 Q. Okay. And from your standpoint, after 25 OSHA put out those requirements, you understood that DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 __________________________________________________________________________________ 47 1 they had the force of law? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And would it have been your policy, as 4 well as Brown & Root policy, to follow those 5 regulations at a minimum? 6 A. Yes, we would follow those regulations. 7 Q. And after those regulations were in place, 8 is there any reason you can think of that Brown & Root 9 would not have fully complied with those regulations 10 thereafter? 11 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 12 overbroad, vague form of the question, 13 speculative. 14 A. There is no reason that I know of that we 15 would not follow the regulations. 16 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) And if you became aware 17 of a particular employee or a particular supervisor 18 who ignored those regulations, you personally, and as 19 a significant person in management, would have been 20 concerned about that? 21 A. Would have been concerned about that 22 and -- and probably would have terminated the 23 individual. 24 Q. Okayf.. 25 A. Or the supervisor. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 48 1 Q. Have you told me all the projects that you 2 can recall that were ongoing in the '65-'66 time frame 3 at Armco? 4 A. Well, there was a number of other smaller 5 projects that were being handled under that continuous 6 contract that I'm just not familiar with. My 7 responsibility was totally associated with the 8 mechanical and electric furnace project. 9 Q. I guess similarly in the '74 to '79 time 10 frame, there would have been a number of projects 11 ongoing at the facility of which you won't have any 12 present recollection? 13 A. Only in a very vague manner. Like you 14 said, I had another individual that reported to me on 15 that work. I -- you know, the only thing I remember 16 is some of the larger projects, like the direct 17 reduction mill and the wide flange mill; and I'm not 18 sure about the exact period of time. But all the 19 smaller jobs, there's just too much -20 Q. Detail? 21 A. -- detail for me. 22 Q. Okay. Did -- did you visit the Armco 23 facility after 1972? 24 A. Occasionally. 25 Q. Do you recall any of thoseparticular DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800 - 780-2555 49 1 instances? 2 A. Gosh, I went out there, I think when they 3 had the dedication on the direct reduction mill. 4 Q. When would --when would that have been? 5 A. Oh, it would have been in the -- I think 6 that was in the mid-170s. There were other occasions 7 I went out there. I -- I would occasionally go out 8 when somebody on the project had a service award, if 9 you'd been there like 20 years or something, I would 10 personally go out there and present the award to them, 11 or if there was some specific milestone on a job; and 12 I just can't recall any specifics associated with 13 Armco itself. 14 Q. Did you personally have any interaction 15 with the Armco officials? 16 A. Only during certain contract negotiations. 17 Q. Do you recall any specifics about any of 18 those? 19 A. Well, I was totally involved in the 20 negotiations of the electric furnace job that I was 21 on; and the others, I was involved to a degree where 22 Mr. Bokken would come to me with those contracts, and 23 I would review them with him. But as far as any 24 direct communications with -- with the Armco people 25 associated with those, I -- I was only there, not DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 50 1 directly involved. 2 Q. And are you -- were you generally, at that 3 time, familiar with the contractual terms, many of 4 them which I assume were repeated in contract after 5 contract? 6 A. Yes. On the continuing contract, they 7 were basically the same terms and conditions. On the 8 separate contracts, they were -- they were different, 9 relative to the responsibilities of that particular 10 contract. 11 Q. Do you recall generally that the contracts 12 made -- whether or not the contracts made any 13 reference to the duties and obligations of the owner 14 as opposed to the duties and obligations of Brown & 15 Root concerning safety at the work site? 16 A. I would have to review the contract 17 to -- to be sure on that. 18 Q. Well, what do you recall without -- if 19 anything, without reviewing the contract? 20 A. I just don't recall anything on those 21 specific contracts. 22 Q. Okay. Similarly, do you not recall 23 anything specific with respect to the requirement of 24 the purchase of liability insurance? 'f 25 A. Generally, the purchase or the DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 51 1 responsibility and -- was on the contractor to provide 2 it. But certain other contracts, the owner may have 3 provided it. I just can't recall on this* 4 specifically. 5 Q. Okay. Do you recall whether or not Armco, 6 for example, was named as an additional insured on 7 Brown & Root's policies? 8 A. I would have to review the contract. 9 Q. Have you -- in fact, I think you told me 10 you have not reviewed any contracts in preparation for 11 your testimony? 12 A. Not in any detail. 13 Q. Well, when you say "not in any detail," 14 what -- what have you looked at? 15 A. The only thing I did was just go through 16 them to try to refresh my memory. 17 Q. Okay. Was that the -- the box or stack of 18 contract documents behind Mr. Hewitt? 19 A. I would have to look at those to see if 20 it's the same thing. 21 MR. MARKS: It is. 22 A. It is? Okay. 23 MR. MARKS: Do you want him to look 24 through these? 25 MR. WATERS: Well, not to -- just DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 52 1 to satisfy yourself that that's what you 2 looked at. 3 A. Yeah, that's -- I just flipped through 4 them just to -- but I didn't look at any of them in 5 any detail. 6 MR. WATERS: All right. Put them 7 on the floor, is fine. 8 MR. MARKS: All right. 9 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Were you able to 10 ascertain, from looking at those documents, whether or 11 not they were complete, whether or not that is all the 12 contract documents? 13 A. I never looked through them in that 14 detail. 15 Q. Okay. 16 A. And I wouldn't know whether they would be 17 complete or not. 18 Q. That's what Isuspected. Okay. 19 I want to talk a little bit about the 20 profitability of the -- of the projects. Did you 21 essentially have a budget for a given project which 22 you wanted to bring the work in under that amount so 23 that you would have an adequate profit -- profit 24 margin? 25 A. Well,generally, you'd -- every project DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 53 1 would have a budget, you know. There would be an 2 amount set up for the job. And you would always want 3 to try to bring it in below *the cost, whether it was 4 on a lump sum job or it was on a cost reimbursement. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. It was naturally the intent to have the 7 most economical as well as safe job you could. 8 Q. Okay. And the budget would include all 9 anticipated expenditures that would be necessary with 10 the job? 11 A. It would be those things that would be 12 under our control as far as our budget is concerned. 13 And you -- you've got to be specific on the type of 14 contract that you have. 15 Q. Well, what about safety and health 16 expenditures, would those be included under the 17 specific contracts or not? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. All right. So, there would be a budget 20 item for safety and health expenditures on the job? 21 A. Generally, yes. 22 Q. Okay. And what type of expenditures were 23 typically included in that budget -- budget line? 24 A. Typically, it would be the the cost of 25 the -- of the safety services, the medical costs, the DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 54 1 costs of any particular equipment that might be 2 necessary for the particular job, any medical costs e 3 associated with physicals for the employees or any 4 first aid treatment and so forth. 5. Q. Would that also include the cost of 6 maintaining a safety supervisor or other safety 7 personnel? 8 A. That salary cost would be in there. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. Keep in mind, though, that's typical. 11 That's not any specific job. 12 Q. No, I understand. Well, and do you have 13 any specific recollection, as you sit here today, of 14 budget items for safety expenditures that related to 15 dust monitoring, for example, measuring the 16 expenditures associated with measuring the -17 A. I wouldn't have -18 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 19 overbroad form of that question, and it's 20 also vague. 21 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answer. 22 A. I have no specific information on that. 23 Q. In addition to safety, I guess the budget 24 would address various other issues where expenditures 25 were anticipated? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 55 1 A. What are you talking about, the general 2 budget for the project now? 3 Q. Yes, sir. 4 A. Yes. You would have -- a budget would 5 include all of the costs associated with the work that 6 you are performing under that contract. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. Safety-related items would be one aspect 9 of the budget. 10 Q. Right. 11 A. Labor,materials, equipment, andvarious 12 other factors to finish or complete the job would be 13 the other line items. 14 Q. Now, if for some reason the budget is 15 exceeded, am I correct that that would result or could 16 result in a reduction of profits to the company? 17 A. Could be, yes. 18 Q. And, of course,that's onereason for 19 having a budget, isn't it? 20 A. Well, certainly. 21 Q. Okay. Did the safetydepartment have 22 someone who was responsible, had responsibilities for 23 the industrial civil division as opposed to the other 24 divisions ? 25 A. Yes. Each division had a safety manager DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 56 1 who was responsible to the corporate safety manager, 2 as well as the division that he was in. And then the 3 safety people that were on the "jobs reported to that 4 safety manager within the division. 5 Q. Do you recall who was the safety manager 6 for the industrial civil division in 1974 to '79? 7 A. Not off-hand, I don't. I can't remember 8 during that particular period of time. 9 Q. Was the work that you were aware of or 10 familiar with from -- that was done at Armco Steel, 11 was that profitable for Brown & Root? 12 A. Well, some of the work we did out there 13 was profitable; and some was not so profitable. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. Depending on how well we didto the -- you 16 know, to the estimated price. 17 Q. How well you-all kept to the budget? 18 A. Yeah. There's a little bit of luck, too, 19 in all that. 20 Q. Did Brown & Root work out at the facility 21 up -- up until the time it closed in '83 or '84? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. When was the last occasionyou had to 24 visit the facility? 25 A. Oh, gosh, it's been -- I can't remember. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 57 1 It was prior to them closing. 2 Q. Did you have any involvement with e 3 Brown & Root's abatement service, where they did 4 removal or abatement of asbestos materials? 5 A. I don't know of any. 6 Q. You're not aware of that? 7 A. No . 8 Q. Okay. And I guess that makes sense 9 because that's not new construction work, the kind of 10 work you are involved with? 11 A. Yes . 12 . Q- So, to go back to your position, as the 13 chief operating officer, the position you were in at 14 the time you retired, you had climbed the ladder all 15 the way up to basically number two with the company? 16 A. Yes . 17 Q. And this is a company in 1995 of how many 18 employees, approximately? 19 A. 35,000. 20 Q- Worldwide? 21 A. Worldwide. 22 Q. It's a large and sophisticated company? 23 A. Yes . 24 Q- It ' s a company that has the wherewithal 25 and the ability to keep up with changes in the DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 58 1 scientific and technological literature about building 2 trades and construction work? 3 MR. HEWITT: Objection; overbroad 4 and vague. 5 A. Yeah, I -- I'd like to hear something a 6 little more specific. 7 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. As a large and 8 sophisticated company, will you agree with me that 9 Brown & Root has the ability, and has had the ability 10 to be knowledgeable about developments in 11 technological and construction fields? 12 MR. HEWITT: Objection; 13 multifarious, overbroad, vague. 14 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) This is not some 15 mom-and-pop organization, is it? 16 A. No. But your -- your question is so 17 broad, I'm not too sure I understand what you're 18 asking. 19 Q. Okay. Well, has it been your experience 20 that this is a company that's able to maintain a 21 current level of knowledge about areas of interest in 22 the field? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Okay^. And that would include scientific 25 literature about the construction trades, for example? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 59 1 A. Yes . 2 Q. 3 nature? Engineering journals, things of that e 4 A. Yes . 5 Q. Okay. I take it from our earlier 6 discussion that the -- the knowledge that you would 7 have about asbestos, you would have developed from the 8 early '1970s to the present? 9 A. Well, that's my first knowledge of it, was 10 when it came out through the OSHA regulations. 11 Q. Okay. And whatever knowledge you have 12 gained would have been in large part the result of 13 your employment at Brown & Root and would have been 14 the result of things you were told or read while at 15 Brown & Root? 16 A. As well as what would come from our safety 17 department, which is who was responsible for that -- 18 for that literature. 19 Q. Okay. And in that -- again, since the 20 OSHA regulations came out, you learned, for example, 21 that asbestos was a hazardous substance? 22 A. That was the information. yes . 23 Q- That it was considered toxic? 24 A. Yes . f. 25 Q. That it could potentially lead to serious DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 60 1 diseases and death? 2 A. Yes, the potential, yes. 3 Q. Understanding you are not going to have 4 any specific regular -- specific recollection of what 5 the regulations require, I don't think you do, do you? 6 A. No, I don't. 7 Q. Okay. But you do generally understand 8 that since the early 1970s, there was a series of 9 significant regulations designed to try to reduce or 10 eliminate the hazards that could be caused from 11 breathing asbestos? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Again, if we gettoo specific, you stop 14 me; but did you learn, as part of the learning process 15 from the early '70s on, that asbestos can cause a 16 disease -- excuse me, asbestos exposure can cause a 17 disease called asbestosis? 18 A. I've heard of that, yes. 19 Q. Okay. Did you learn that asbestos 20 exposure can lead to lung cancer? 21 A. I've heard that. 22 Q. And again, when you say you've heard these 23 things, that would have been in the context of 24 training manual,.-- training materials or other 25 information from within Brown & Root? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 61 1 A. That's correct. 2 MR. HEWITT: Would now be a good 3 time for a break? 4 MR. WATERS: Sure. 5 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It's 2:54 p.m. 6 We are off record. 7 (Short recess.) 8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 3:13 p.m. 9 We are back on record. 10 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Mr. Zerr -11 MR. WATERS: Actually, could you 12 read me back the last question? 13 (The requested material was read by 14 the reporter.) 15 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Do you agree with me, 16 sir, that an employer has a responsibility to ensure 17 that its -- that employees have a safe workplace? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And that a construction company has a 20 responsibility to make sure that there aren't any 21 hazardous exposures in the workplace it controls? 22 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 23 overbroad and vague form of the question. 24 A. We are responsible for the safety of our 25 people, and -- and naturally, associated with that, if DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 62 1 there's any hazardous things around, we try to -- to 2 identify them and remove them. 3 Q. (BY* MR. WATERS) Okay. And that 4 responsibility with respect to workplace safety, would 5 you agree, sir, that that would extend to 6 subcontractors' employees who might be in the vicinity 7 or other persons who might be working in the area? 8 MR. HEWITT: Objection; overbroad, 9 vague. 10 A. Our responsibility is the safety of our 11 people. 12 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Areyou telling us 13 you don't have a responsibility with the -14 responsibility with respect to others in the work 15 area? 16 A. No. 17 MR. HEWITT: Objection; overbroad 18 and vague. 19 A. Only to our people within the area that 20 we've got the responsibility of doing the work. What 21 other people do that we have no responsibility for, we 22 can't control. 23 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. What about a -- a 24 situation where you have a potential exposure within 25 your area that may extend outside of your area where DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 63 1 other folks are located? 2 MR. HEWITT: Objection; overbroad 3 and vague. 4 A. I don't know of -- of a case like that. 5 You're speaking of an explosion or something of that 6 nature ? 7 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Or some kind of an 8 exposure situation, where you've got something that's 9 not necessarily stationary, a condition that may move 10 with the wind. 11 A. Well, we try to take whatever precautions 12 we have on the material we are handling. 13 Q. Yes, sir. And with respect to the 14 possibility that nonemployees may be exposed, does 15 Brown & Root feel some degree of responsibility? 16 A. We -- 17 MR. HEWITT: Objection; overbroad, 18 ' vague, assumes facts not in evidence, it's 19 an incomplete hypothetical. 20 MR. WATERS: Well, I didn't get to 21 finish my question. 22 23 Q. 24 question? MR. HEWITT: Excuse me, I'm sorry. (BY MR. WATERS) Did you understand the f. 25 A. I think it needs to be repeated. You DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 64 1 didn't finish it, I understand. 2 MR. WATERS: Okay. Can you read e 3 the portion that did I finish? 4 (The requested material was read by 5 the reporter.) 6 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) For nonemployees who 7 might be exposed as a result of Brown & Root 8 operations ? 9 MR. HEWITT: Same objections. 10 A. We -- we can't be responsible for 11 employees of others that would get in the area that we 12 are working. 13 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) All right. Is that -14 has that essentially been Brown & Root's position 15 historically, as far as you can recall? 16 A. No, we -17 MR. HEWITT: Objection; overbroad, 18 vague. 19 A. We can put out notices about certain 20 things. But if -- if outsiders, outside of our 21 employees, get within an area that we're working, we 22 can't be responsible for their having gotten in there. 23 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Is Brown & Root 24 responsible for putting out warnings or signs if 25 that's a possibility? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 ________________ 65 1 A. If that's a known possibility. 2 Q. Okay. And you'd agree that that 3 responsibility, the purpose of that is to potentially 4 give some protection to the nonemployees who may be in 5 the vicinity so that -6 MR. HEWITT: Objection. Go ahead, 7 excuse me. 8 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) -- so that at a minimum, 9 they can have some understanding of the potential 10 hazard? 11 MR. HEWITT: Objection; overbroad 12 and vague. 13 A. It's also to make our own employees aware 14 of things within that specific area. 15 MR. WATERS: Okay. Let me object 16 as nonresponsive. 17 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) My specific question is, 18 if one of the purposes of putting up warning signs is 19 to alert persons who may be in the vicinity but are 20 not Brown & Root employees of a potential hazard? 21 A. Not just nonemployees of Brown & Root. 22 Anybody. You know, it could be our own employees. 23 Keep in mind, a project could cover a broad area; and 24 there may be a specific problem within a given area, 25 and we have employees working over here. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 66 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. That would have to be occasioned to go 3 over the area that may be -- that may have a problem. 4 Q. Where there may be a hazard? 5 A. Yes. And that is where we would have the 6 notices applied. So it's not just for nonemployees. 7 Q. No, I understand. I mean, obviously, you 8 have told us about the responsibilities Brown & Root 9 has towards its own employees; and I don't think 10 there's any dispute about that. But I've been asking 11 you specifically about what sense of responsibility, 12 if any, Brown & Root has for other folks' employees 13 that may be exposed to something hazardous from 14 Brown & Root operations? 15 MR. HEWITT: Objection; 16 repetitious, overbroad, and vague. 17 A. I've answered the question the best I can. 18 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) How would you 19 characterize that level of responsibility? 20 MR. HEWITT: Same objections. 21 A. I characterize the level of responsibility 22 on notifying anybody of a given area of problems. 23 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. Regardless of 24 whether they are;-employees or employees of somebody 25 else? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 67 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Okay. Tothe best of your knowledge, is 3 that a responsibility that is stated in the 4 regulations? 5 A. I reallydon't know. 6 Q. Okay. 7 MR. HEWITT: Object to the form of 8 that last question. It's overbroad and 9 vague. 10 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) In the time frame from 11 '74 to '83, let's see. All of that time frame, even 12 though there was a change in the nomenclature, you 13 were essentially involved with the projects for the 14 industrial civil division; is that right? 15 A. No. The industrial civil division lost 16 name in 1979. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. And we -- we made a major reorganization 19 of the company into distinct divisions of 20 industrial-type work. 21 Q. All right. And was it in '79 or in '83 22 that you became senior vice president of the business 23 unit? 24 A. The t-business unit was established in '86. 25 Q. '86? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 68 1 A. Yes, sir. And that was when I became the 2 president of the business unit. 0 3 Q. Okay. In the time frame '74 to '79, when 4 you were the head of the industrial civil division, 5 can you give me a sense of the number of projects that 6 were ongoing at that time for which you had overall 7 responsibility, understanding that various people 8 reported to you on those projects? 9 A. Well, to begin with, I wasn't in charge of 10 the industrial civil division. I was the senior vice 11 president associated with construction. The -- the 12 head of that division was Lawrence Derrick. 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. The number of projects thatwere going on 15 was -- was quite large. We had a bunch of small 16 projects as well as large projects. We had several, 17 let's say, regional offices that handled a lot of the 18 small projects. As an example, the Pasadena office 19 had a bunch of small projects handled out of it. That 20 manager reported to me for all those projects. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. And we had a regionalofficein Longview 23 that was of similar nature, handled a bunch of the 24 smaller projects,-in East Texas. Then we had a bunch 25 of -- of, let's say medium to large-sized projects DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 69 1 that reported to managers who then reported to me. 2 Q. And those -- 3 A. So 4 Q. would have been all over the country? 5' A. Oh, yes. We could have had 50 jobs going 6 on in one year just out of one of those regional 7 offices; and they -- they were small to -- to 8 medium-sized jobs. 9 Q. So, at any -- in any given year, you, 10 overall, taking all those into consideration, you may 11 have had hundreds of projects? 12 A. Yes, may have. 13 Q- All right. 14 A. Some years were larger than others. 15 Q. Okay. In terms of your personal 16 knowledge, am I correct that you would not have 17 specific knowledge about any one of those specific 18 projects as you sit here today? 19 A. That's correct. 20 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 21 overbroad, vague form of that last 22 question. 23 Q- (BY MR. WATERS) Would the same be true in 24 the '79 to '83 tame frame, that you, as you sit here 25 today, would not have specific recall about any one of DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 70 1 these hundreds of projects that would have taken place 2 in that time frame? 3 MR. HEWITT: * Same objection. 4 A. I would not have specific detail about any 5 one of those projects. 6 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) And you would probably 7 not be able to actually name them all, would you? 8 A. I would be able to name some of them, but 9 not all of them. 10 Q. Fair enough. Because some of them would 11 have been small enough or, relatively speaking, 12 insignificant enough so that if you knew about them, 13 you probably didn't recall them for very long? 14 A. That's correct. 15 MR. WATERS: I'll pass the witness. 16 * * 17 EXAMINATION 18 * * * 19 BY MR. ERWIN: 20 Q. Mr. Zerr, in 1965 and 1966, when you were 21 the project manager for Brown & Root out at Armco, did 22 you, as part of your job, were you involved in the 23 negotiation of the contract for the work performed at 24 that time frame? r25 A. For that particular project, yes. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 71 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. The electric furnace.-- the mechanical and 3 the electric furnace job. * 4 Q. All right, sir. Do you recall whether 5. part of the contract provisions with Armco, between 6 Armco and Brown & Root pertained to the safety program 7 to be observed by Brown & Root while at Armco 8 premises? 9 A. I can't specifically say on that, on 10 that -- on that contract; but generally, the -- the 11 safety requirements are an attachment to the contract 12 under "Conditions." 13 Q. Okay. 14 A. And I have to assume in that case they 15 would have been on that job. 16 Q. Well, and as -- pardon me. Back to your 17 experience at that point in time, and then even later 18 when you had occasion to review the contracts while 19 the operations were up and running at the Armco plant, 20 do I understand that it was your experience ordinarily 21 that there would be an appendix attached to the 22 contract that pertained to the safety programs that 23 would be followed; is that correct? 24 A. Ordinarily, that's correct. , r 25 MR. ERWIN: Okay. Could I have DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 72 1 this marked Exhibit 1? 2 MR. WATERS: Do you have an extra 0 3 copy? 4 MR. ERWIN: I had one copy for 5 Andy. 6 Let's go off for a second. 7 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 3:26 p.m. 8 We are off record. 9 (discussion off the record; and 10 Exhibit No. 1 was marked for 11 identification.) 12 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 3:29 p.m. 13 We are back on record. 14 Q. (BY MR. ERWIN) Mr. Zerr, have you had 15 occasion to review, while we were off the record for a 16 moment, what's been marked as Exhibit 1 to your 17 deposition? 18 A. I've generally reviewed it, yes. 19 Q. And do you recognize this as a standard 20 form-type of agreement that was attached to 21 Brown & Root and Armco contracts pertaining to safety 22 instructions for contractors on the Armco premises? 23 A. Typical of what I've seen, yes. 24 Q. All,.right, sir. And, in fact, this one 25 particular document is dated what date, sir? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 73 1 A. It shows issued on February of '96. 2 Q. Okay. 3 MR. MARKS: '66. 4 A. '66, pardon me. 5' Q. (BY MR. ERWIN) Let's try that again. On 6 what date does Exhibit 1 show -- reflect .that it was 7 issued? 8 A. February of a 1966. 9 Q. Okay. And that was by Armco Steel 10 Corporation? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. All right, sir. 13 MR. WATERS: And just -- can we let 14 the record reflect that you believe this 15 document to be attached to one of the 16 contracts ? 17 MR. ERWIN: Well, it's been 18 represented to me by counsel for 19 Brown & Root that it was attached to one 20 of the contracts. 21 MR. WATERS: In that general time 22 frame. 23 MR. ERWIN: In that general time 24 fr^jne, right. 25 Q. (BY MR. ERWIN) Mr. Zerr, if I could DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 _________________________________________________________________________________ 74 1 direct your attention to the first -- the opening 2 paragraph of this document on Page 1, I believe it 3 recites that the stated purpose is to establish 4 minimum safety standards for the contractor; is that ' 5 correct ? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. All right, sir. In -- and then there are 8 various provisions -- and I'm not going to ask you to 9 recite all of them by any means -- but concerning 10 safety, general safety rules to be observed while on 11 the Armco premises, correct, sir? 12 A. Right. 13 Q. And one of those is on Page 2, which is 14 Paragraph D at the top, pertaining to personal 15 protective equipment and clothing, correct, sir? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And it mentions hard hats andsafety 18 goggles and glasses, things that were very typical in 19 the construction industry at -- in the mid-'60s, 20 correct, sir? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. And thenunder that, there's a little 23 paragraph, little d, that pertains to, "Respirators or 24 breathing apparatus shall be worn on any job with 25 respiratory hazards, including brick sawing, DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 75 1 spray-painting, and excessive areas of dust, toxic 2 materials or oxygen deficiencies such as manholes, 3 sewers, et cetera." Did I rea'd that correctly, sir? 4 A. You read it correctly. 5, Q. And is that a typical type of provision 6 you remember being in this type of a contract? 7 A. Typical, yes, yes. 8 Q. And as project manager, you would have 9 endeavored to have your employees comply with this 10 type of provision, correct? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. One of the other provisions, if I may, at 13 the top of Page 3 pertains to good housekeeping. 14 correct, sir? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. And it states -- well, let me strike that. 17 One of the general rules of safety and -18 and if not -- and at premises such as Armco would be 19 that Brown & Root would be responsible for cleaning up 20 the area in which it was working, correct, sir? 21 A. That would be one of their 22 responsibilities, yes. 23 Q. And just to make sure the record is clear 24 you've never been employed by Armco, have you, sir? 25 A. No, I haven't. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 _______________________________________________________________________ 76 1 MR. ERWIN: All right, sir. I have 2 no further questions at this time. 3 Reserve the rest of mine until the time of 4 trial. I thank you for your time, sir. 5 *** 6 EXAMINATION 7 ** 8 BY MS. KELLY: 9 Q. Mr. Zerr, I just have a few questions for 10 you. My name is Trish Kelly, and I represent 11 W.R. Grace and Pittsburgh Corning Corporation. Mr. 12 Waters asked you some questions. You indicated that 13 you were familiar with the name Pittsburgh Corning; is 14 that correct? 15 A. Yes . 16 Q. Is that -17 A. That 1s correct. 18 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with any of the 19 products they manufactured? 20 A. Not really. 21 Q. Are you -- do you have any evidence, as 22 you sit here today, that there was any Pittsburgh 23 Corning material, insulating material, that was at 24 Armco site while you were there? r 25 A. I have no -- DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 77 1 MR. WATERS: Objection; calls for 2 speculation or a guess. e 3 A. I have no knowledge of any. 4 Q. (BY MS. KELLY) In other words, I'm asking 5 from your personal observation -6 A. Yes. 7 Q. -- something that you would know, if you 8 -- if you have any evidence from your own personal 9 knowledge that there was any product manufactured by 10 Pittsburgh Corning at the Armco site. 11 A. I have no personal knowledge of that. 12 Q. Okay. And I would ask you the same about 13 W.R. Grace. Do you have any personal knowledge of any 14 product that was manufactured by W.R. Grace that 15 was - 16 A. I did -17 Q. -- that was at the Armco premises? 18 A. There again, I have no personal knowledge 19 of that 20 Q. Fine. As I understand yourtestimony, you 21 were at the Armco plant from mid-'65 to fall of '66? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. All right. And youtestified that pipe 24 insulation had not begun until after you left? 25 A. That's correct. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 78 1 Q. That's correct. Okay. 2 MS. KELLY: That's all the 3 questions I have. Thank you, sir. I'll 4 reserve any other questions until the time 5. of trial. 6 MR. WATERS: Any? Okay. I just 7 have a couple of questions about, I guess, 8 what's been marked as Exhibit No. 1. 9 k ie ic 10 RE-EXAMINATION 11 Jr * * 12 BY MR. WATERS: 13 Q. If you'll look at the -- the first page 14 under "General Instructions," under Roman numeral I, 15 item C, would you read that.to the jury, sir? 16 A. "The Contractor shall comply with all 17 applicable city, county, state, and federal safety 18 codes in the area where he's performing his work." 19 Q. Okay. Did you understand, as of the 20 mid-1960s, that Brown & Root, pursuant to these terms, 21 would have had a contractual duty to follow whatever 22 safety codes or regulations there may have been that 23 pertained to the workplace? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Okay. Were you aware, as of 1966, that DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 79 1 the state of Texas had adopted in 1958 specific safety2 regulations pertaining to the use of asbestos? 3 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 4 overbroad form of the question. It also 5. calls for a legal conclusion of this 6 witness. Assumes facts not in evidence 7 and is potentially misleading. 8 Furthermore, this particular attachment is 9 just that, it's an attachment. If it has 10 a date 1966 on it, February 1966, we don't 11 know at this point what specific contract 12 this may relate to. Therefore, the 13 question is. ambiguous and misleading -14 this series of questions, excuse me. 15 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You can answer. 16 A. I think I need the question reread. 17 MR. WATERS: Okay. I'm not 18 surprised. 19 (The requested material was read by 20 the reporter.) 21 A. I'm not -- I can't remember anything of 22 that nature. 23 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) All right, sir. If you'd 24 look at Roman numeral I, Paragraph F, would you read 25 that to the jury, sir. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 80 1 A. "The Contractor shall make prior 2 arrangements with the Project Engineer or designated 3 Plant Engineer before starting work in any operating 4 department." 5. Q. All right, sir. Did many of these 6 contracts contemplate work on the part of Brown & Root 7 that would take place in the operating departments or 8 some of the operating departments? Is that the 9 purpose of this clause? 10 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 11 overbroad, misleading form of the 12 question. 13 A. I'm not sure if that's the -- the specific 14 purpose of this question; but -- or this statement, 15 but there are certain jobs, yes, that we have had to 16 perform work in operating units. 17 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. 18 A. And naturally, you would take the 19 precautions associated with the -- with the operations 20 when that takes place. 21 Q. Roman numeral II, Paragraph B, if you'll 22 take a look at that. Do you recall anything about 23 regular safety meetings between Armco folks and 24 Brown & Root peo?*ple? 25 A. Yes. There -- there were, but I'm not DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 81 1 familiar with how frequently they were held. It's 2 customary for Brown & Root to have safety meetings 3 every Monday morning with all of the employees on the 4 job; but how often that took place with the -- with 5 the owner, I -- I can't -- can't say. I'm not too 6 sure . 7 Q. All right. You don't recall that being on 8 a regular or a frequent basis? 9 A. I don't think it was on a frequent basis 10 other than -- other than in certain areas of 11 operations, as opposed to a green field facility. 12 Q. On Page 2, the first -- two -- excuse me, 13 Paragraph D, small I, "The contractor shall require 14 his employees to wear adequate protective equipment 15 and clothing commensurate with the hazards of the work 16 being done." First of all, did I read that correctly?, 17 A. You read it as written, yes. 18 Q. Yes, sir. And did the contractor, or did 19 Armco essentially anticipate that Brown & Root was in 20 a position to determine what was appropriate 21 protective equipment as they say here, "commensurate 22 with the hazards of the job being done"? 23 A. Would you repeat that? 24 MR. WATERS: Can you read that one 25 back, please? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 82 1 (The requested material was read by 2 the reporter.) 3 A. That's a very broad question because 4 the -- the jobs varied. If it's a green field site 5 and you're building a new plant, there's no operations 6 around, there is no specific extraordinary hazardous 7 elements around. Within an existing operating plant, 8 there could be; and then it would be customary for the 9 owner to identify those things to the contractor 10 within operations. 11 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Did Brown & Root expect 12 and anticipate that the owner, or in this instance, 13 Armco, would identify potential hazards in the 14 operations area which Brown & Root might come across? 15 A. That would be typical. 16 Q. Okay. Is it your feeling that that was a 17 responsibility that rested on the shoulders of Armco? 18 A.. It was a responsibilityof Armco, or 19 whoever the owner may be, to identify thosebecause 20 they -- they have the -- the knowledge of the 21 operations; but at the same time, if we saw something 22 ourselves, then we would identify it. 23 Q. Okay. 24 If you'll look at, under Subparagraph 1 25 small d, do you see that portion that Mr. Erwin read DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 83 1 to you before? 2 A. Yes . & 3 Q. Okay. What would you consider, sir, to be 4 areas of excessive dust or, more particularly, what do 5 you consider to be excessive dust as that term is used 6 here ? 7 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 8 overbroad form of the question. 9 A. Here again, you would have to look at the 10 specific job that's being done. 11 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. 12 A. There are certain jobs that there probably 13 would be no hazardous dust whatsoever. 14 Q. All right, sir. 15 A. And there would be others that there could 16 be. And -- and it could -- it could be applied to 17 anything from cutting concrete in a paving slab -- and 18 I'm not saying anything specific to Armco, I'm just 19 trying to describe what this general statement is -20 is for. It could be cutting any kind of -- of hard 21 surface, brick or anything of that nature. It can 22 apply to dust on roads; but I don't think there's 23 anything specific here. It has to -- it has to relate 24 to the specific job that's being performed; and that 25 is my understanding of the intent. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 84 1 Q. All right, sir. There was testimony from 2 another ex Brown & Root gentleman earlier this 3 morning, that in his recollection it was -- he 4 frequently observed extremely dusty conditions at the 5 Armco facility. Let me ask if that comports with your 6 recollection, as you sit here today? 7 A. Was he specific about where within the 8 facility? It's a big facility. 9 Q. I think he was speaking in general terms, 10 that he observed extremely dusty conditions in a 11 variety of facilities over the course of some years 12 there. 13 A. In the operation or during the 14 construction or what -15 Q. I think both. 16 MR. HEWITT: Object to the form of 17 the question. It's a mischaracterization 18 of Mr. Johnson's testimony. It's 19 therefore misleading and assumes facts not 20 in evidence. 21 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Do you have an opinion, 22 sir, one way or the other, as to whether or not -23 A. Well, not having the privilege of hearing 24 what you were talking about this morning -25 Q. Yes, sir. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 85 1 A. -- I would have to say that -- that, yes, 2 there's dust occasionally. What kind of dust depends 3 on what's being done. 4 Q. Sure. 5 A. And what -- what the facility is 6 manufacturing or -7 Q. Well, do you recall, sir, at any time 8 observing what this other Brown & Root witness 9 described as extremely dusty conditions at Armco? 10 A. There were occasions where I saw dust, but 11 for a steel mill, I can't say that it was any 12 different than any other steel mill. 13 Q. Okay. Seeing visible dust in the air in a 14 steel mill is not something that surprises you? 15 A. No. 16 Q. It's something you anticipate, something 17 that is normal? 18 A.. I'd say that it's something that you can 19 anticipate, yes. 20 Q. Okay. As to whether or not that dust may 21 be considered to be excessive, as that term is used in 22 this contract language, would you agree with me that 23 that would require some degree of measurement in order 24 to determine whether or not extremely dusty conditions 25 are excessive? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 86 1 MR. HEWITT: Object to the 2 overbroad, vague form of the question. 3 It1 s overbroad and not related to 4 geographic locations or circumstances in 5 issue in this lawsuit. 6 A. I really can't answer that question. You 7 know, I need to know specifically what kind of -8 where the dust is coming from as to whether, you know, 9 we can do anything about it. 10 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) You'd need to know what 11 was in the dust? 12 A. Well, I would need to know what the dust 13 was . 14 Q. That -- that's what I mean. 15 A. And also, what's it doing. Is it going up 16 in the air? Is it blowing through the area? You 17 know, just how is it being dispersed. 18 Q. Okay. Well, you personally were involved 19 with the preparation of these contracts, correct, some 20 of them? 21 A. I was not necessarily involved in the 22 preparation of them; but I was involved, to a degree, 23 in the reviewing of the final contract for approval. 24 Q- Okay?. Were the Brown & Root, employees 25 made to understand what Brown & Root's obligations DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 87 1 were under these contractual terms that we're looking 2 at. Exhibit 1? 3 MR. HEWITT: Objection; overbroad 4 and vague. 5' A. The Brown & Root employees on the job site 6 were made aware of the safety precautions and what was 7 required under the safety regulations to be applied to 8 that specific job. 9 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Did the Brown & Root 10 employees, as of 1966, understand that they were to 11 use respirators in areas of excessive dust? 12 MR. HEWITT: Objection; assumes 13 facts not in evidence and it's overbroad 14 and vague with respect to this particular 15 document, Exhibit No. 1, because a time 16 frame has not yet been established 17 relative to this document. 18 A. The people on the job site were made aware 19 of what was known, as far as any areas that would 20 require respiratory gear to be worn by them in -- in 21 the specific job that they were doing. 22 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) And according to this, 23 would they have been told to use respiratory 24 protection if they were working in areas of excessive 25 dust? DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 88 1 A. Depending on what the dust was and what 2 was happening with the dust. 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. If it was going straight up in the air and 5, they were working on the ground, they probably would 6 not have. 7 Q. Okay. How were the workers supposed to 8 determine whether or not the dust was excessive or 9 not ? 10 A. This -- this was the responsibility of the 11 safety manager in his communications with the 12 operations of the plant. 13 Q. Okay. So, the safety manager for 14 Brown & Root would have -- would have had a continuing 15 obligation to assess whatever dust may have been in 16 the air to determine whether or not it was a potential 17 hazard? 18 MR. HEWITT: Objection; overbroad 19 and vague, not related to the specific 20 circumstances or facts of this lawsuit. 21 A. To -- to the best of his knowledge and 22 understanding of what was there, he would be 23 responsible and would advise the people of what was 24 required, based on the requirements of the contract at 25 the time. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 89 1 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) Okay. The document also 2 discusses, in the context of respiratory protection, 3 possible exposures to toxic materials. Do you see 4 that? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Now, do you recall your earlier testimony 7 that asbestos is considered to be a toxic material? 8 A. Yes, and I was relating to that after it 9 was made known with the OSHA regulations. 10 MR. WATERS: Okay. Let me object 11 to the nonresponsive portion. 12 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) To the -- if you'll look 13 at Page 3, at the very top under H, the houseke'eping, 14 Mr. Erwin asked you some questions about that. To the 15 extent that Brown & Root operations created dust that 16 left any kind of a film or material on the floor or on 17 equipment or wherever, am I correct that Brown & Root, 18 under this, would have had the responsibility to 19 remove that accumulation as part of the housekeeping 20 requirements? 21 MR. HEWITT: Object to the form of 22 the question, assumes facts not in 23 evidence. 24 A. Generally, we would clean up whatever 25 trash or mess that was left from construction. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 90 1 Q. (BY MR. WATERS)Well, and would that 2 responsibility extend to whatever residue might be 3 left from dust-producing operations? 4 MR. HEWITT: Object to the form of 5 the question. It's overbroad and vague 6 and not related to specific circumstances 7 relative to this lawsuit. Assumes facts 8 not in evidence. 9 A. Generally, that would be the case. 10 Q. (BY MR. WATERS) What is the salamander's 11 use for providing heat? 12 A. What is it? 13 Q. Yes, sir. 14 A. It -- it's like a -- a small stove, and 15 it's got a -- a blower on it that blows the heat out 16 that's being generated by the --by the stove. 17 MR. WATERS: Okay. I pass the 18 witness. 19 MR. HEWITT: No questions at this 20 t ime . 21 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: It is 3:52 p.m. 22 We are off record. 23 (Deposition concluded at 3:52 p.m. 24 25 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 93 1 STATE OF TEXAS * 2 COUNTY OF HARRIS e 3 * 4 I, LISA A. BERRY, a Certified Shorthand Reporter 5 in and for the State of Texas, do hereby certify that 6 the foregoing answers in response to the questions 7 propounded were made before me by EMIL MARTIN ZERR, 8 JR., the witness hereinbefore named, after said 9 witness had been first duly cautioned and sworn to 10 testify to the truth, the whole truth and nothing but 11 the truth. 12 Further certification requirements pursuant to 13 Rules 205 and 206 will be certified to after they have 14 occurred. 15 I further certify the above and foregoing 16 deposition is a full, true, correct and complete 17 transcript of the proceedings had at the time of 18 taking of this deposition. 19 GIVEN UNDER MY HAND AND SEAL OF OFFICE on this 20 21 22 5850 San Felipe, Suite 405 23 Houston, Texas 77057 (713) 952-6625 FAX (713) 952-6776 24 25 My Commission Expires: 12/31/98 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 94 1 NO. 95-04-1728-D 2 MANUEL P. GONZALES, ET AL 3 VS . 4 OWENS-CORNING FIBERGLAS 5 CORPORATION, ET AL ) IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF ) ) ) CAMERON COUNTY, TEXAS ) ) ) 103RD JUDICIAL DISTRICT 6 ORAL/VIDEO DEPOSITION OF EMIL MARTIN ZERR, JR. 7 TAKEN ON SEPTEMBER 26, 1997 8 I, LISA A. BERRY, Certified Shorthand Reporter, CSR #3104, hereby certify that: 9 1. This deposition transcript is a true record of the testimony given by the witness named 10 herein, after said witness was duly sworn by me; 2 . $ 648.07is the charge for the 11 preparation of the completed deposition transcript and any copies of exhibits attached thereto, charged to 12 Defendants Pro Rata as noted; 3. The deposition transcript was submitted on 13 10-1-97to MR. C. ANDREW WATERS___________________________for the witness to examine, sign and return to DIANA HENJUM ' 14 REPORTING SERVICES, P.C., by OCTOBER 24f 1997. 4. RETURN OF DEPOSITION TRANSCRIPT: 15 a: The deposition transcript was returned, properly executed by the witness, to the 16 deposition officer ( ). b: The deposition transcript was returned 17 unsigned because of _______ illness; _______ refusal to sign; _______ absence of witness; _______ no reason given. 18 c: The deposition was not returned _______. d: The deposition was retained by 19 by agreement of the Parties. 5. I further certify that the attached 20 change/correction sheet contains any changes, and the reasons therefore, made by the witness. 21 6. The original executed transcript, or a certified copy thereof, if applicable, together with 22 all exhibits, was ( ) was not ( ) delivered to the Custodial Attorney, MR. C. ANDREW WATERS, LAW OFFICES 23 OF C. ANDREW WATERS, 400 South Zang, Suite 1420, Dallas, Texas 75208 on, 1997. 24 7. Pursuant to information made a part of the record at the time said testimony was taken, the 25 following includes all parties of record. DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 95 1 MR. C. ANDREW WATERS LAW OFFICES OF C. ANDREW WATERS 2 400 South Zang, Suite 1420 Dallas, Texas 75208 3 APPEARING FOR THE PLAINTIFFS 4 Taxable Cost: 5 MS. PATRICIA KELLY ADAMS & GRAHAM, L.L.P. 6 222 E. Van Buren, West Tower P.O. Drawer 1429 7 Harlingen, Texas 78551 8 APPEARING FOR DEFENDANTS W.R. GRACE COMPANY AND 9 PITTSBURGH CORNING CORPORATION Taxable Cost: 10 MR. JAMES V. HEWITT 11 MEREDITH, DONNELL & ABERNETHY 6850 Texas Commerce Tower 12 600 Travis Houston, Texas 77002 13 APPEARING FOR DEFENDANT 14 BROWN & ROOT USA, INC. Taxable Cost: 648.07 15 MR. R. HARDING ERWIN, JR. 16 MATTHIESEN & CHASE, L.L.P. 3003 Eleven Greenway Plaza 17 Houston, Texas 77046 18 APPEARING FOR DEFENDANT ARM CO 19 Taxable Cost: 20 8. A copy of this certificate was served on all parties shown herein. 21 GIVEN UNDER MY HANTL AND SEAL OF OFFICE on this the day of______/ j) r, f)' 1997 * 22 MdwphruJ ____ 23 IJ&k A. BERRY, CS^Kfff3104 CSR EXPIRATION DATS : 12/31/98 24 25 DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICES, P.C. 1-800-780-2555 SAFETY INSTRUCTIONS FOR CONSTRUCTION CONTRACTORS AND THEIR AGENTS WORKING ON THE PREMISES OF ARM CO STEEL CORPORATION f - ' * r. A The purpose of these safety instructions is to establish minimum safety standards to guide the Contractor and his employees In carrying out their safety responsibilities. Unless the contex otherwise requires, reference to employees of the contractor shall include employees of sub-contractors. I. GENERAL INSTRUCTIONS ----------A;--The-General-Contractor-shall-be-xesponsibleJoL-the safety activities of all employees and agents he employs. B. All safe practices on construction work outlined in the latest edition of the "Manual of Accident Preven tion in Construction", as published by The Associated General Contractors, shall be used as a guide. C. The Contractor shall comply with all applicable city, county, state, and federal safety codes in the area where he is performing his work. D. The Contractor shall comply with all applicable safety rules and regulations of the plant or works of Armco Steel Corporation where he is performing work. Questions of application will be resolved solely by Armco. E. Before starting work, the Contractor shall secure copies of all Armco General Safety Orders issued by the local plant where he is working and he shall comply with applicable provisions to safeguard per sonnel and property of Armco. F. The Contractor shall make prior arrangements with the Project Engineer or designated Plant Engineer before starting work in any operating department G. Control valves or service lines which are located in various departments must not be opened or closed without first securing permission from the maintenance foreman in the department. H. The Contractor must make prior arrangements with the Project Engineer or his designated representa tive to check on the existence of underground conduits and. service lines before an excavation of any kind is made with the plant area. IL ACCIDENT PREVENTION PROGRAM - The Contractor shall have an accident prevention program commen surate with the extent of work under his contract A. Safety Personnel - If it is determined by Armco that the contract warrants a full-time qualified safety supervisor, he shall be employed by the Contractor to implement the accident prevention program. He shall work closely with the plant safety department. The determination for the need of a safety super visor shall be resolved before the contract is finalized. B. Safety Meetings shall be held regularly between Armco plant safety personnel and the Contractor's safety and/or supervisory personnel and Contractor's personnel for establishing a Safety Meeting Schedule. C. Adequate Safety indoctrination9and instruction shall be given to all personnel employed by the Contractor. 1 D. Personal Protective Equipment and Clothing 1. The Contractor shall require his employees to wear adequate protective equipment and clothing commensurate with the hazards of the job being done. It is recommended that, wherever possi ble, these requirements be in accord with the personal protective program of the Armco plant or works where the work is performed. The following shall be used as a guide in establishing rules to provide employees with adequate protective equipment a. b. ________ c. d. e. Hard hats shall be worn in all construction areas. Appropriate type safety glasses, goggles, face shields or helmets shall be worn on all jobs where there is a known eye hazard. Appropriate foot wear, such as safety shoes, protective covers, rubber boots, etc. shall be worn by employees who~are engaged in-w6riTrequrrmg"'such'protection.''-----------------------------Respirators or breathing apparatus shall be worn on any job with respiratory hazards, includ ing brick sawing, spray painting, and areas of excessive dust, toxic materials, or oxygen de ficiency such as manholes, sewers, etc. Safety belts shall be worn by employees where needed. III. ACCIDENT REPORTS - The contractor shall maintain accurate safety records. A. All work injuries shall be classified in accordance with the latest revision of the Z16.1 Code, "Re cording and Measuring Work Injury Experience", as issued by The American Standards Association. B. Any accident which apparently will lead to a disabling injury must be reported to the Armco project engineer or works engineer immediately. C. Copies of all disabling injury reports shall be sent to the Armco project engineer or works engineer. IV. FIRST AID AND MEDICAL TREATMENT A. The Contractor shall make adequate local arrangements for giving first aid and medical treatment to injured employees. B. All injuries, regardless of how minor, shall be reported to the individual's supervisor. V. CONTRACTOR'S EMPLOYEES - Qualifications and Conduct A. The Contractor shall make every effort to employ physical and mentally capable employees to carry out the work they are expected to perform. . B. Employees should be discouraged from riding crane hooks or loads carried by cranes. C. Employees must not visit departments or sections of the plant not connected with their place of work. D. Employees entering or leaving their place of work must follow the designated routes. E. Employees must be alert for train movements when crossing railroad tracks. F. Employees shall not cross over, between, or under railroad cars unless properly authorized. & G. Horseplay is considered an unsafe act and will not be tolerated on the job. Employees engaging in same are subject to discharge. 2 H. Good Housekeeping is one of the first rules of safety and all Contractors are expected to keep their places of work dean and orderly. Materials and equipment will be left in a neat and orderly manner at the end of each working day. Trash shall be disposed of daily or more often if necessary. Em ployees must be cautioned against blocking or obstructing "fire-fighting equipment, electric switch boxes, crane access stairs, ladders, safety walkways, or other areas necessary for the movement of men or safe operation of equipment VI. FIRE PREVENTION AND PROTECTION - Every possible effort shall be made to prevent fires and all approved protective means shall be taken in accordance with the National Fire Protective Association Code. Special pro tective measures shall be taken as follows: A. When burning or welding outfits are used, fire extinguishers shall be close at hand. B. Compressed Gas Cylinders shall be handled with care at all times. They shall be properly secured in racks in upright position at all times. Tney shall not be stored near gas, oil, or other flammable liquids, and separators are recommended between oxygen and acetylene when in storage or in use. If cylinders must be handled by hoisting equipment, they shall be carried in a cradle or similar device, - and extreme care shall be taken so they are not dropped. Slings shall not be used. C. Flammable Liquids - All volatile and flammable liquids must be stored in and dispensed from approved containers which are clearly identified as to contents. D. Explosives - No explosives may be used on the premises without the permission of the plant engineer ing department If such permission is granted, explosives shall be handled by properly licensed and experienced personnel. Explosives shall be stored in accordance with all local regulations to prevent fire or explosion. VI!. MACHINERY MECHANIZED EQUIPMENT, AND MOTOR VEHICLES A. All tools, machinery, and equipment used by the Contractor shall be adequate for its intended use and shall be in safe operating condition. B. All operators shall be experienced in the operation and use of the equipment they operate. C. All motor vehicles which are permitted to use roadways inside the plant must be driven by properly licensed operators at a safe rate of speed, not exceeding the maximum speed allowed in the plant. Parking restrictions and all regulations must be observed. When backing any vehicle, the operator must be sure the areas are clear. D. Whenever it is necessary to transport men in the body of a truck, the truck must be equipped with seats. If dump trucks are used to transport men, the bed of the truck must be properly secured so it cannot accidentally dump. VIII. ELECTRICALLY POWERED TOOLS AND EQUIPMENT - All stationary and portable electrically powered tools and equipment used by the Contractor must be grounded before operation i s permitted. Three - ' pronged plugs and receptacles are required by Company standards. IX. SANITARY CONDITIONS. Unless provided by Armco, the Contractor shall be required to furnish adequate toilet facilities as required by the city, county, state, or federal codes and by the plant where the work is being performed. 3 X. EXCAVATIONS must be barricaded day and night, and marked by warning lights at night. Openings in the ground or in floors, such as manholes, valve pits, and sewers, shall be railed off or covered. Where shoring is required, it shall be in accordance with the state safety code applicable, and the standards contained in "Manual of Accident Prevention in Construgtion" as issued by The Associated General Contractors of America. XI. GENERAL SAFETY PRECAUTIONS A. Ladders and scaffolds and other equipment used on the job must meet the safety code of the state where the work is performed. B. Nails - - All protruding nails in.boards must be removed or turned down. --------_ C. Material Piling and Storage - - Allmaterials used for construction shall be safely piled. Materials that have a tendency to roll or move shall be properly secured. 0. Salamanders used for providing heat for the comfort of employees must be guarded in accordance with the standard established by the plant All gas-fired salamanders shall be equipped with auto matic shut-off regulators and, if located in confined areas, shall be vented to the atmosphere. E. Overhead Work - When it is necessary to perform work above the heads of men or where there is a possibility of men passing under overhead work, the danger zone must be roped off and "MEN WORKING OVERHEAD" signs displayed. F. Toxic Gases - Whenever it is necessary to perform work in a department, tunnel, basement, sewer or in any place where gas may be present, a carbon monoxide gas test must be taken before start ing the job. The test shall be made with a CO detector and explosimeter. G.. Electric Lines - Crews working on or near live electrical lines must take all safety precautions possible to ensure their personal protection. * Issued by Armco Steel Corporation - February 1966 FORM 6.(23 A Reporting Services, EC. Court Reporters Videographers Medical / Technical Depositions Condensed Transcripts Key^'ord Indexing Litigation Support Disk Archiving Subpoenas Notices Vidco Mr. James V. Hewitt MEREDITH.K. DONNELL 6850" Texas Commerce 600 Travis Street Houston, TX 77002 OCTOBER 1,1997 Sc ABERNETHY Tower Re: MANUEL P. vs. 1-800-780-2555 Dallas Houston DALLAS Office 972X780-5552 619 Mercury Avenue. Suite 107 Duncanville, Texas 75137 Metro 972X299-5075 Telecopier 972 X 780-5730 HOUSTON Office 713X952-6625 5850 San Felipe, Suite 405 Houston, Texas 77057 Telecopier 713 X 952-6776 GONZALES, ET AL. Plaintiffs, Dear EMIL MARTIN ZERRR, JR. OWENS-CORNING FIBERGLASS CORP., ET AL, Defendants no. 95-04-1728-D Please read and sign before a Notary Public the attached Oral Deposition, taken on the 26TH day of September. 1997 . making any necessary changes on the Corrigendum page that is provided. Please return the deposition to this office within twenty ( 20 ) days or before October 24, 1997 for filing, as agreed by the parties. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact this office. Sincerely, Roger Duester Houston Office Manager DIANA HENJUM REPORTING SERVICE, P. C. Enclosure cc: Mr. Ms. Mr. Andrew Waters Patricia Kelly R. Harding Erwin, Jr.