Document 2JDq3nKNJny981Q268jdyrD7b

FILE NAME: BF Goodrich (BFG) DATE: 1989 Sept 25 DOC#: BFG039 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Legal - Deposition ofWilliam McCormick IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF OKLAHOMA IN RE: ASBESTOS LITIGATION ) MASTER NO. 1417 ) ABS 812 Deposition of WILLIAM E. McCORMICK, a Witness herein, called by the Plaintiffs for Examination pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, taken before me, the undersigned, William S. Bish, an RPR/CM and Notary Public in and for the State of Ohio, at the Director's Room - Cascade Holiday Inn, 5 Cascade Plaza, Akron, Ohio, on Monday, the 25th day of September, 1989, at 9:05 o'clock a.m. COMPUTERIZED TRANSCRIPTION BY BISH & ASSOCIATES, INC. 524 Society Building Akron, Ohio 44308 (216) 762-0031 R E C E IV E D OCT 1 0 1989 40 1 A. 2 Q* Oh, I'm sure I did, but I -- I don't recall. What organizations, as best you can recall, 3 would you have been associated with through your work at 4 the State of Georgia? I mean by that time-period-wise. 5 A. Well, I -- I know there were activities with 6 the American Industrial Hygiene Association locally and 7 nationally. I may have attended some, I don't recall. 8 Q. Was the American Conference of American Metal 9 Hygienists formed in that time period? 10 A. Well, it was formed in 1938, so it existed, 11 certainly. 12 Q. Did you have any acti vity with that 13 organiz a ti on wh ile you were a Pub lie H ealth Ser vice 14 Officer ? 15 A. No, I did not. 16 Q. Or whi le you we re at the State of Georgia? 17 A. No , I did not. 18 Q. Did yo u receive publi catio ns of the National 19 Safety Council in the time period thro ugh your employment 20 at the State of Georgia? 21 MR. MILLER: Objec tion. Exc use m e , 22 object io n , vague. Which publicat ions? 23 MR. HOBSON: Any. We can start there and 24 try to nar row it, but -- 25 THE WITNESS: I don't recall that I did. 41 1 BY MR. HOBSON: 2 Q. I'll try to narrow it for the gentleman. A 3 publication of the National Safety Council called 4 National Safety News, do you recall seeing that? 5 A. I don't recall. I may have, I don't recall. 6 Q. Do you now know of that publication, National 7 Safety News by the National Safety Council? 8 A. I presume it still exists. I haven't seen it 9 for a long time. 10 Q. But you are aware that it did exist? 11 A. It did exist, yes. 12 Q. Was the B. F. Goodrich Company a member of 13 the National Safety Council, to your knowledge? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Were they a member when you joined in 1946, 16 to your knowledge? 17 A. I believe so. 18 Q. Would you have any information about when 19 B. F. Goodrich would have become a member of the National 20 Safety Council? 21 A. I do not. 22 Q. When you were working for the Public Health 23 Service, assigned to the North Carolina State Health 24 Department, did any of your activities take you into 25 shipyards? 42 1 A. I believ e -- I believe so. 2 Q. Did any of your work in shipyards, as best 3 you can reca 11, involive asbestos 7 4 A. I don't believe so. 5 Q. Through your -- the time period of yo ur 6 employment with the State of Geo rgia can you ever recall 7 doing any ki nd of an evaluat ion of how much, if a ny f 8 particulate dust or asbestos in air was associate d with 9 any ins ulati ng activ it ies? 10 A. I don't believe so. 11 Q. Through the time per iod that involved y our 12 work at the State of Georgia did any of your acti vi ties 13 involve eval uating a ir borne cone entr ations of tal c, that 14 you can reca 11? 15 A. I don't recall any. 16 Q. Prior to joining the B. F. Goodrich 17 Corpora tion in 1946 did you ever have any contact w ith 18 Phil Dr ink er 7 19 A. 20 Q. 21 A. 22 Q. Yes. Who was that contact? Oh, there were many contacts. Could you start with the earliest that you 23 can recall and tell me what those were? 24 A. Well, I can't recall -- I can't tell you 25 specifically, but Dr. Drinker was a consultant for 43 1 Willson Products in Reading/ and I had many contacts with 2 him. 3 Q. I take it that Willson Products Company made 4 a line of respirators that could be used for asbestos; is * 5 that correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Do you recall what the various filter 8 materials would have been for the Willson product line 9 for asbestos respirators? 10 A. Well, that would -- that would vary. There 11 were -- there were felt filters, there were also supplied 12 air respirators that might have been used depending upon 13 the circumstances. 14 Q. Let's talk about the air purifying 15 respirators. Was felt the only material that you can 16 recall Willson Products Corporation -- Company used for 17 filters, when you were employed by them, for asbestos? 18 A. Well, I 'm sorry, that is not an air purifying 19 respirator, that's not the definition. 20 Q. All right, sir. What kinds of respirators 21 would felt have been used on? 22 A. The type that is worn, they're called half 23 masks, and they're intended to filter out dust. They're 24 commonly referred to as dust respirators. 25 Q. And they would employ felt as a filtering 44 1 media? 2 A. Basi cally, yes. 3 Q. Were there any other half ma sks filter media 4 being used by Wi llson for asbesto s dust, to your 5 knowledge? 6 A. I don't believe so. 7 Q. Were these felts given electrostatic charge 8 to aid in the filtering of asbestos? 9 A. No. 10 MR. BABB: Just out of curiosity what has 11 this got to do with the tire wor ker litigation and how 12 he 's been identifie d? You know, it's fine what he di d 13 with Willson, but I don't see the relevancy to how this 14 man has been identified to testify in this case. 15 MR. HOBSON: That's fine. 16 MR. MILLER: Well, let -- let me say that 17 I believe, with great affection for Mr. Hobson, that what 18 he's doing is conducting a lot of discovery on a bunch of 19 his cases down in Texas, and I just don't think that's 20 the right use of our time here, although surely he might 21 or might not be entitled to examine the witness on those 22 subjects somewhere, but none of this has anything to do 23 with the Oklahoma tire workers. 24 And previously I asked for an affirmation 25 on the record from other counsel here whether or not it's 103 1 chrysotile. I think you said that they were the same to 2 you. What -- what increased risk are you -- 3 A. N o , I'm sorry, I didn't say that, I didn't 4 say that. 5 Q. Okay. Let me let you clarify your answer, 6 because see, what I want to know is -- 7 A. You ask the question the way you want me to 8 answer it and I'll see -- 9 Q. All right. 10 A. -- if I can. 11 Q. What health risks are you aware of, or were 12 you aware of when you were at B. F. Goodrich, that were 13 associated with tremolite? 14 A. Again, I answered that by saying that I 15 became aware of this in the mid-40's, before I came with 16 the company. It was published information. 17 MR. MILLER: Sir, counsel is asking you 18 what hazards you were aware of, not when, but what did 19 you know back, then about the health hazards. 20 BY MR. HOBSON: 21 Q. Yes, sir. 22 A. The information was to the effect that there 23 is an increased risk of some pulmonary damage through the 24 use of the inhalation of tremolite talc. Now, I can't be 25 more specific than that because I I don't know that at 104 1 that point the risks were well-defined. But there was an 2 increased risk. 3 Q. Now, if you would, sir, would you answer me 4 the same question but for chrysotile? 5 MR. BABB: Are you talking about just 6 chrysotile asbestos or chrysotile asbestos containing 7 talc or talc containing chrysotile asbestos? 8 MR. HOBSON: Chrysotile. 9 MR. MILLER: Well, counsel, I -- 10 THE WITNESS : Well, do you mean by this 11 MR. MILLER: Excuse me, pardon me. The 12 precise question that you asked him doesn't have any 13 meaning until we throw in about eighteen prior questions 14 with it. I think it's confusing and I would ask that you 15 put a question to the witness that can be answered as a 16 question rather than as a part of a dialogue that's taken 17 about a half an hour. 18 BY MR. HOBSON: 19 Q. What are the potential health hazards that -- 20 for exposure inhalation of chrysotile that you're aware 21 of, Mr. McCormick? 22 MR. MILLER: As he sits here today? 23 BY MR. HOBSON: 24 Q. Well, let's start with 1973 when you left the 25 B. F. Goodrich Company. 107 1 A. Yes, I would have wanted to know. 2 Q. Did you know Dr. Leroy Gardner? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Are you familiar with his work at Saranac? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Do you know if he did any work involving 7 asbestos necessarily? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. When did youbecome awareof that? 10 A. When I was in North Carolina, let's say 11 approximately sometime in 1944 or 1945, somewhere in that 12 area. 13 Q. Did you know that Dr. Gardner did work on 14 talcs? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Tell me what you know about his work on 17 talcs. 18 A. Only that he did work. I don't have any 19 specific information. 20 Q. Tell me what you know of hi s work with 21 asbes tos . 22 A. Well, again, I do n't have any specif ic 23 inf or ma tion, but I --- Dr. Gar dner came into North 24 Carol ina when I was there and met with myself and several 25 other people , and I became qu ite aware of the work that 108 1 he was doing then with asbestos, but I -- I don't have 2 any further details on that. 3 Q. Do you -- are you aware that Dr. Gardner had 4 looked at the cancer causing potential of asbestos in 5 animals? 6 A. I'm not aware of that. 7 Q. That's not something that was discussed with 8 you ? 9 A. Mo, it was not. 10 Q. Do you know today whether or not Dr. Gardner 11 ever looked at the cancer causing potential of asbestos? 12 A. I do not know. I have not seen published 13 information to that effect. I do not know. 14 Q. Have you ever seen any information conducted 15 at Saranac on talcs that's been published? 16 A. I can't recall. I'm sure there has been 17 some, but I can't recall what it is. 18 Q. Tell me if you would, sir, your best 19 recollection of v/hen you met Dr. Gardner and who was 20 there with you. 21 A. I don't know who was there with me. A number 22 of other people. As I say, I've given you -- I've given 23 you an approximate time frame and that's all I can give 24 y o u . 25 Q. Would this have been closer to when you first 109 1 went to work in North Carolina or toward the end of your tenur e, do you remember? 3 A. I've given you an approximate time frame, 4 Tha t 's all I can tell you. 5 Q. Can you give me your best recollection of 6 what Dr. Gardner reported to you about his work at 7 Saran ac in asbestos? 8 M R . BABB: Th ing he reported to 9 him about this. 10 MR. HOBSON: did. 11 THE WITNESS: was discussed 12 generally . It was without r , so I -- I d o n 't 13 know. I can't def ine it any 14 BY MR. HOBSON: 15 Q. Did he tell you s doing 16 toxicological work? 17 A. Define what you mean by to xicological. 18 Q. Well, did he tell you that he was exposing 19 animals, by inhalation, to asbestos? 20 A. That's what Dr. Gardner di d at Saranac. They 21 were all animal experiments. 22 Q. Would you call that a toxi cological 23 evaluation? 24 A. Not necessarily. 25 Q. What would you call it? 110 1 A. O Q. That's an inhalation experiment. Can you recall any of the results of his 3 work ? 4 A. No, I do not know what the results were. 5 Q. Do you know if Dr. Gardner ever obtained 6 results from that work? 7 A. I do not know. 8 Q. If he did, and if they demonstrated the 9 potential for asbestos to cause cancer in animals, is 10 that something you would like to know about? 11 MR. MILLER: Objection. 12 MR. SHUNK: Objection. 13 MR. MILLER: Objection, improper 14 hypothet ical. 15 MR. BABB: I join in the objection. 16 You're asking him not to make just one assumption but 17 two. If you can answer it. 18 THE WITNESS: I can't. 19 BY MR. HOBSON: 20 Q. Do you remember what brought Dr. Gardner to 21 North Carolina for these discussions? 22 A. I don't really. I don't -- I don't quite 23 know how the meeting came about, whether it -- it may 24 have been at his request, it may have been at the request 25 of the Health Department of North Carolina. I do not 111 1 know. 2 Q. Was it in a seminar type presentation or was 3 4 A. Yes, pretty much so, yes. Not formal, 5 informal. 6 Q. Do you recall if anyone accompanied Dr. 7 Gardner from Saranac? 8 A. I do not know. 9 Q. In looking at your -- your resume', Exhibit 10 2, I noticed that one of your early publications was 11 Harmful Industry Dusts and Protection From Them, a 12 bulletin that was written in 1941. Can you tell me what 13 that deals with, please? 14 A. No, I can't. My memory isn't that good. 15 Q. Was it published? 16 A. There's a citation there, isn't it? 17 Q. Well, it says the Virginia Polytechnic 18 Institute bulletin. 19 A. 20 Q. Well, then it was published. Would you happen to have a copy of it? 21 A. No. 22 Q. How is it that you were publishing in the 23 Virginia Polytechnic Institute's bulletin? 24 A. Well, as I recall the circumstances that was 25 when I was at Willson Products. I think I was invited to 112 1 go there perhaps for some sort of a seminar type of 2 pr esenta tion. 3 Q. Can you recall if any of your publications 4 dealt with asbestos? 5 MR. BABB: Would you let him take a look 6 at the document? 7 MR. HOBSON: Sure. 8 MR. BABB: That might help or be of some 9 benefit. 10 THE WITNESS: They may or may not. I 11 can 11 be sure. Some iof those early publi cat ions may have 12 been jus t , you know, <a general type of de scr iption. I 13 don't kn ow. 14 BY MR . HOBSON: 15 Q. I see tha: your th ird pubi ica tio n was 16 acta n y publi shed in National Safety News. That's the 17 National Safety Counc.il publication? 18 A. Co rrect. 19 Q. Yo u told me that you first vi sit ed the Mi ami 20 plant in the early 50 's. Can you give me an idea of 21 about how many times you have visited the Mi ami plant 22 A. I haven't the leas t idea. 23 Q. Wo uld you say it was sever al times? 24 A. Several times, but beyond that I can't define 25 it .