Document 1gZ0voEgzmRj36xqNO4anM9KX

!i \\ 2%/ \y IN THE MATTER OF; fat Transwestem Pipeline Company vs. Monsanto Company, et al. Cause No. BC 026959 Deposition of Curtis La Verne Early August 20, 1992 Gore Reporting Company, Inc. 100 North Broadway, Suite 1175 Saint Louis, Missouri 63102 (314)241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040205 2 1 SUPERIOR COURT 2 FOR THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 3 FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES 4 5 TRANSWESTERN PIPELINE 6 COMPANY, 7 8 Plaintiff, 9 1 0 vs. NO. BC 026959 11 12 MONSANTO COMPANY AND 1 3 DOES 1 THROUGH 200 1 4 INCLUSIVE, 15 1 6 Defendants. 17 1 8 Deposition of CURTIS LA VERNE 1 9 EARLY, taken on behalf of the Plaintiff, at 2 0 the offices of Bryan Cave, One Metropolitan 2 1 Square, in the City of St. Louis, State of 2 2 Missouri, on the 20th day of August, 1992 2 3 before Ronald A. Gore, Registered 2 4 Professional Reporter and Notary Public. 25 Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402C 1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: 2 3 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 4 Ms. Janet M. Grady 5 Shearman & Sterling 6 725 South Figueroa Street 7 Los Angeles, California 90017 8 9 1 0 FOR THE DEFENDANT MONSANTO 1 1 COMPANY: 1 2 Mr. Kevin C. Mayer 1 3 Bronson, Bronson & McKinnon 1 4 505 Montgomery Street 1 5 San Francisco, California 94111 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004020' 4 1 INDEX 2 PAGE 3 Examination Ms. Grady 7 4 5 6 EXHIBITS 7 8 Exhibit 614 29 9 Organizational Chart, Tran # 085890- 085894 10 1 1 Exhibit 615 39 12 4-30-64 memo from Early to Wheeler, 1 3 Tran # 009152 14 1 5 Exhibit 617 49 1 6 5-13-64 memo from Wheeler, Tran # 0 0 9 1 5 4 17 1 8 Exhibit 618 54 1 9 5-13-64 letter to C.N. Bunting from R.E. 2 0 Kelly, Tran # 056589- 90 21 2 2 Exhibit 620 59 2 3 "Progress Report, Organic Chemicals 2 4 Division," Tran 005691- 5707 25 Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402C 5 1 Exhibit 621 63 2 9-1-64 memo from D.F. Smith 3 Tran 003061- 3062, MCS-153 specifications 4 5 Exhibit 17 74- 6 Hatton Deposition Exhibit 17 7 8 Exhibit 623 79 9 "Synthetic fluids and their applications by 1 0 C.L. Early" TW2-2004555- 4614 11 12 Exhibit 624 85 1 3 Tran 056741 and 056746- 47 14 15 Exhibit 6 2 5 91 1 6 7-19-66 letter from Early to Walter Woods 17 1 8 Exhibit 626 98 1 9 11-2-66 letter to W.M. Stephens from C.L. 2 0 Early TW2-2006664- 6665 21 2 2 Exhibit 378 100 23 2 4 Exhibit 627 102 2 5 "Effect of heat on the viscosity of Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314)241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402C 6 1 Pydraul - 13 5" TW2 - 2 0 0 6 6 6 6 - 6 6 6 7 2 3 Exhibit 628 105 4 3- 14-67 letter to Walter Woods from C.L. 5 Early TW2-2003953- 54 6 7 Exhibit 632 111 8 5 - 2 0 - 6 8 memo from W.R. Richard to R. Davis 9 Tran 057590 10 11 Exhibit 634' 116 1 2 4-8-71 memo from Michael F. Baber, Subject: 1 3 Toxicity of halogenated polyphenyls 14 1 5 Exhibit 6 117 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040210 7 1 CURTIS LA VERNE EARLY, 2 of lawful age, having been first duly sworn 3 to testify the truth, the whole truth, and 4 nothing but the truth in the case 5 aforesaid, deposes and says in reply to 6 oral interrogatories propounded as follows, 7 to - wit : 8 EXAMINATION 9 QUESTIONS BY MS. GRADY: 1 0 Q: Good morning, Mr. Early. I 1 1 introduced myself earlier, my name is Janet 1 2 Grady, and I represent Transwestern 1 3 Pipeline Company in this litigation. Could 1 4 you please state your full name and spell 1 5 it for the record? 1 6 A: Curtis La Verne Early. 1 7 C-u-r-t-i-s. L-a V-e-r-n-e. Early, 1 8 E-a-r-l-y. Address, you want? 1 9 Q : Yes. 2 0 A: Rural Route 2, Box 2194, St. 2 1 James, Missouri 65559. 2 2 Q: Mr. Early, have you ever had your 2 3 deposition taken before? . 2 4 A: One occasion. I think they took a 2 5 deposition. Asked me questions and I think Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314)241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004021 8 1 they recorded it. 2 Q: What did the matter involve? 3 A: It had to do with a fire. 4 Q: Was this related to your work at 5 Monsanto? 6 A: Let me think on that. Indirectly, 7 yes. 8 Q s How so? 9 A: As I recall, it involved PVC wire 1 0 coating as an alleged cause of the fire, 1 1 electrical fire, and Monsanto at one time 1 2 provided that product. I was employed in a 1 3 position that had to do with product fire 1 4 safety, and while I had nothing to do with 1 5 the PVC, I was asked to give testimony. 1 6 Q: How long ago was this deposition? 1 7 A: It was the mid ' 70' s, I think. 1 8 Q: And you're saying PVC; P as in 1 9 Peter, V as in Victor, and - 2 0 A: Polyvinylchloride, PVC. 2 1 Q: Have you ever provided a statement 2 2 under oath in connection with your 2 3 employment at Monsanto? 2 4 A: This deposition we're talking 2 5 about is the only one I recall. Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004021 9 1 Q : Have you ever acted as an advisor 2 or a consultant on any litigation? 3 As No. 4 Q: Have you ever acted as an expert 5 witness? 6 As No . 7 Q: I'm sure you've gone over this 8 with your lawyer, but let me establish the 9 ground rules that we'll operate under today 1 0 during the deposition. You understand that 1 1 you're under oath today just as ifyou were 1 2 testifying in court? 1 3 A: Yes, ma'am. 14 Q: You will have a chance to review 1 5 the record that will be typed up into a 1 6 transcript booklet after the deposition, 1 7 but it's important that we try to get the 1 8 testimony as accurately as possible today. 1 9 Do you understand that? 2 0 As Yes. 2 1 Qs So that we get an accurate record, 2 2 you must answer audibly. If you wait for 2 3 me to finish my question before you answer 2 4 and I wait for you to finish your answer 2 5 before I pose another question, it will Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314)241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004021 1 0___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 make our court reporter's life a lot easier 2 and the record a lot better. Do you 3 understand that? 4 A : I'll try. 5 Q: Good. It is important that you 6 understand the questions that I ask. If 7 you believe you do not understand a 8 question, will you please let me know? 9 A: Yes. 1 0 MR. MAYER: Or I will. 1 1 MS. GRADY: Are you under any 1 2 medication that would prevent you from 1 3 giving truthful and accurate testimony 1 4 today? 1 5 A : No, ma'am. 1 6 Q: Is there any other reason you feel 1 7 you can not give truthful and accurate 1 8 testimony today? 1 9 A : No, ma'am. 2 0 Q: We will likely take a break about 2 1 every hour or so, but if you would like to 2 2 take a break to consult with your lawyer or 2 3 for any other reason, will you please let 2 4 me know ? 2 5 A : Yes, ma'am. Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402' 11 1 Q; I will be asking you today 2 questions about documents and events that 3 took place a considerable period of time 4 ago. I am entitled to your best 5 recollection as you sit here today. If you 6 have a recollection in response to one of 7 my questions, I'm entitled to whatever 8 recollection you have. Do you understand 9 that? 1 0 A : I do. 1 1 Q : Are you represented here today, 1 2 Mr. Early? 13 A: This gentleman is representing me. 1 4 Q: And are you being paid for your 1 5 time here today? 1 6 A : No, ma'am. 1 7 Q: Could you please summarize for me 1 8 your post-high school education? 1 9 A: I went to Washington University, 2 0 graduated in 1957, majored in chemistry 2 1 with a bachelor degree. 2 2 - Q : Is that a bachelor of science? 2 3 A : Bachelor of arts. 2 4 Q s Have you had any post-graduate 2 5 course work? Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 _______________________________________________________________.____________ 12 1 A: No. I've taken some night courses 2 that may or may not have qualified as 3 graduate courses. I think no. 4 Qs Did any of the night courses you 5 took relate in any way to your employment 6 at Monsanto? 7 A : No, ma'am. 8 Qs What was the first job you had 9 after college? 1 0 A: I was working at Shell Oil Company 1 1 before and during my going to college, and 1 2 I worked for Shell Oil Company for five 1 3 years after -- more than that, for -- I 1 4 worked for Shell Oil Company after 1 5 graduation. 1 6 Q: So, your employment with Shell 1 7 ceased in about 1962, is that right? 18 As ' 63 . 1 9 Q: '63. And when did you start 2 0 working for Shell? 2 1 A: 1947, I think. 2 2 ,, Q: When did you enter Washington 2 3 University? 2 4 A: 1 9 5 4. 2 5 Q: What was your job at Shell in Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402' 13 1 1947? 2 A: I was a laboratory assistant in 3 the research department. 4 Q: And what were your duties when you 5 left Shell? 6 A: I was a research chemist involved 7 with product development in the industrial 8 lubricants field. 9 Q: What kind of applications were the 1 0 lubricants on which you were doing work 11 put? 12 A: Well, they were varied. 1 3 Industrial gear lubricants, quenching oils 1 4 for cooling hot metals, rust inhibitors for 1 5 automotive cooling systems. Those are 1 6 examples. Is that adequate? 1 7 Q: Yes, that's fine. What was the 1 8 nature of your work as a research chemist 1 9 for industrial lubricants? 2 0 A: To develop new or replacement 2 1 products in these kinds of areas, to 2 2 improve existing products or develop new 2 3 products . 2 4 Q: And how did you go about 2 5 prioritizing your time? How was it Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004021 1 4_____________________________ __ __________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 established what projects you would work 2 on? 3 As To a degree, what my boss told 4 me. But the gear oils represented a major 5 -- fairly major effort, and so did the 6 quenching oils. And I was at liberty, to 7 some degree, to judge how much time I spent 8 on each. So it was a matter of -- if I 9 had a good idea on something in the gear 1 0 oils, I might go gung-ho on it for a while 1 1 and then I'd get a hot idea on the 1 2 quenching oils. So that was the nature of 1 3 the prioritization. 1 4 Q: Did the request for development 1 5 come directly to you from customers? 1 6 A: No. Not usually. At Shell the 1 7 -- again, the management would -- the 1 8 group leader in charge of industrial 1 9 lubricants would assign different projects 2 0 to different people, and I was assigned 2 1 these areas to work on. 2 2 - Q: And within those areas were you 2 3 given free rein? 2 4 MR. MAYER: Objection, vague. 2 5 MS. GRADY: You can answer. Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004021 15 1 A: Pardon? 2 Qs You can answer. 3 MR. MAYER: You can answer unless 4 I instruct you not to, which, with an 5 objection like that, I won't do. 6 A: Well, to a degree. But I also - 7 if my boss had a good idea I would pursue 8 his idea. So, if he said go investigate 9 some additive, I would investigate that 1 0 additive. On the other hand, I was free to 1 1 use my own mind to generate ideas for new 1 2 additives for compositions. Does that 1 3 answer your question? 1 4 Q: No. But I think it's the 1 5 question, not the -- here's what I'm 1 6 interested in. Were you working against 1 7 product specifications that you were trying 1 8 to meet or was your work by way of more 1 9 pure research? 2 0 A: Both. Some of each. 2 1 Q: And how was your time divided 2 2 between the two, or how would you 2 3 differentiate between the two? Why don't 2 4 you answer the latter of those questions. 2 5 A: Gear oils were more against Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040219 1 6___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 industry accepted specifications, and I 2 probably spent more time there than on 3 other areas. The quenching oils, there was 4 no industry specs to measure the results we 5 wanted to achieve, and we had to establish 6 our own test criteria and the like. 7 Q: Were any of the products or 8 lubricants on which you were working 9 synthetic? 1 0 A : No . 1 1 Q: What was the chemical composition 1 2 of the industrial gear lubricants you were 1 3 working on? 1 4 MR. MAYER: Objection, seeks to 1 5 invade trade secret and proprietary 1 6 information. You can go ahead and answer 1 7 generically. 1 8 MS. GRADY: Are you representing 1 9 Shell? 2 0 MR. MAYER: No. But I think we 2 1 have a duty to protect their trade secrets 2 2 as well. 2 3 A: I don't want to violate any 2 4 confidences with Shell, either. However, 2 5 these gear oils were made of -- the base Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314)241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040220 1 stocks were mineral oils. And they ranged 2 from light mineral oils, like motor oil 3 viscosities, to very heavy viscus oils. 4 And they contained additives that would 5 improve the lubrication characteristics of 6 the base mineral oils. The lubrication 7 qualities and the oxydization stability 8 were the two things that we focused on in 9 trying to improve the quality of the 1 0 c omp o sition. 1 1 Q: Mr. Early, let me take care of 1 2 some business that we should have taken 1 3 care of at the beginning. It's my 1 4 understanding that there is a standard 1 5 stipulation in this case that all 1 6 depositions are taken under the California 1 7 Code of Civil Procedure. Is that your 1 8 understanding? 1 9 MR . MAYER: That would be my 2 0 understanding. 2 1 MS . GRADY: Okay. So stipulated? 22 - M R . MAYER: So stipulated. 2 3 MS . GRADY s Where did you go next 2 4 after you worked at Shell? 2 5 A: Monsanto. Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402: 1 8____ ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 Q: And how were you recruited to 2 Monsanto? 3 MR. MAYER: Objection, the 4 question lacks foundation. 5 A: Do I answer? 6 MR. MAYER: Yes, you do. 7 A: I wrote them a letter inquiring 8 about employment opportunities. I, in 9 effect, applied for a job, I was not 1 0 pirated. 1 1 Q: And why were you interested in 1 2 working for Monsanto? 1 3 A: Oh, I don't have a good answer to 1 4 that. I was happy at Shell, I simply 15 decided to -- at age 35, or so, to look 1 6 around for better job opportunities. 1 7 Q: And were you subsequently hired by 1 8 Monsanto? 1 9 A: Yes. 2 0 Q: In what position? 2 1 A: The title was project manager, 2 2 commercial development. 2 3 Q: What year was this? 2 4 A: 19 6 3. 2 5 Q: What did you understand your job Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040222 1 9__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 responsibilities to be? 2 A: To identify new business 3 opportunities, product opportunities for 4 the corporation, and to introduce new and 5 experimental products into the marketplace 6 were the primary functions. 7 Q: Who did you report to in 1 9 6 3 ? 8 As A fellow by the name of T.P. 9 Sands, when I hired in. 1 0 Qs And what was his position? 1 1 A: I've forgotten the-exact title. 1 2 Manager of oil additives and functional 1 3 fluids, commercial development. It may 1 4 have been just manager, additives and 1 5 fluids, commercial development, I don't 1 6 recall exactly. 1 7 Q: Were there other product managers 1 8 for commercial development in addition to 1 9 y ou ? 2 0 A: Yes. 2 1 Qs How many in 1963? 2 2 As 1 5 t O 2 0 . 2 3 Qs Did you have anyone working for 2 4 y ou ? 2 5 As A secretary, but no professional. Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004022 2_0___________________________________________________________________________________________________________ _______________ 1 Q: And how did you get work 2 assignments? 3 A: To a large degree, I generated my 4 own. I was hired because of my background 5 in industrial lubricants, and we'd look for 6 areas in the field of oil applications 7 where we could sell new additive systems to 8 oil companies or replace oils with 9 synthetic fluids, particularly in 1 0 non-automotive markets. 11 Q: Did your work entail any 1 2 laboratory time? 1 3 A: Not at -- no. In training a 14 little bit, but no. 1 5 Q: So, how did you go about looking 1 6 for areas in the field of oil applications? 1 7 As Well, I don't know how to answer 1 8 that. 19 MR. MAYER: Do you understand the 2 0 question, sir? 2 1 As Yes, I understand the question. 2 2 -It just gets hard to answer succinctly. I 2 3 just knew from my work background the 2 4 nature of additive systems in many 2 5 industrial lubricants, and I also knew Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314)241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004022 ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ 21 1 where there were areas that needed to be 2 improved upon. To confirm some of these 3 ideas, or this knowledge, I did make a 4 survey of nearly all the major oil 5 companies, visited their industrial 6 lubricant people to see what problems they 7 envisioned in some of the product areas and 8 came back and reported to my management 9 where there was or was not any 1 0 opportunities for additives for lubricating 1 1 oils. 1 2 Q: So the survey of oil companies was 1 3 as potential customers or potential 1 4 competitors or - 1 5 A: Customers. Monsanto sold 1 6 industrial oil additives to oil companies 1 7 and automotive companies. 1 8 Q: So, you understood that Monsanto 1 9 was selling lubricants to oil companies for 2 0 the use by oil companies? 2 1 A: Additives, not -- Monsanto was 2 2 -selling additives to oil companies, yes. 2 3 Q: And then the oil companies -- it 2 4 was your understanding the oil companies 2 5 took the additives and put them in some Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004022 22 1 other 2 As Into their -- we sold the 3 additives, not the base stocks. 4 MR. MAYER: For the completeness 5 of the record, Mr. Early, let me caution 6 you to permit counsel to finish her 7 question before you respond. 8 As Excuse me. All right. 9 MS. GRADYs What I'd like to do is 1 0 go through the rest of your career at 11 Monsanto and get the broad outlines of how 12 your work progressed. What was your next 1 3 position at Monsanto after project manager, 14 commercial development? 1 5 As I resigned from Monsanto and left 1 6 the company in 1968, and went into private 1 7 business. I returned to Monsanto in 1970 1 8 and was employed as -- I think the title 1 9 of commercial manager, corporate fire 2 0 group . 2 1 Qs For the period between 1963 and 2 2 .4 968, were you a project manager that 2 3 entireperiod? 2 4 A: Yes, ma'am. 2 5 Q: And, then, when you returned to Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 2 3__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 Monsanto in 1970, you became a commercial 2 manager, is that correct? 3 As That was my title, yes. 4 Qs What was your next position after 5 that? 6 As I was promoted to manager, 7 corporate fire safety -- corporate fire 8 group. 9 Qs What year was that? 1 0 As I think 1973. , 1 1 Qs What was your next position after 1 2 that? 1 3 As I was -- I had two titles. I was 1 4 manager, fire safety center and manager, 15 commercial development in the plastics 1 6 division. The manager, commercial 1 7 development related to the plastics 1 8 division only; the manager, fire safety 1 9 center was a corporate function. 2 0 Qs What year did you assume these 2 1 titles? 2 2 As I believe I assumed those titles 2 3 in '73. And I may have assumed that 2 4 manager, corporate fire group, perhaps, in 2 5 '71 or '2, earlier. Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040227 ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ 24 1 Q: Okay. You indicated that you were 2 manager of commercial development in the 3 plastics division. Was that also called 4 the plasticizers group? 5 A: No. 6 Q: Separate entity? 7 A: Completely separate. 8 Q: What was the work of the plastics 9 division, as you understood it? 1 0 A: I managed a small group of people 1 1 who were involved with improving existing 1 2 products or developing new products. New 1 3 markets more than products, new markets in 1 4 the area of plastics. 1 5 Q: Did you continue to do any work in 1 6 the area of lubricants? 1 7 A : No . 1 8 Q: And what was your next position? 1 9 A: Commercial development manager, 2 0 separations business group. 2 1 Q: And what was your understanding of 2 2 ^your job responsibilities in that position? 2 3 A: We were looking for market 2 4 opportunities in the area of separating 2 5 mixtures of gases. Monsanto had new Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040228 ______ __________________________________________________________________________________________________ 25 1 technology that would allow the separation, 2 for example, of hydrogen from carbon 3 monoxide. 4 Q: In what year did you assume that 5 position, meaning commercial development 6 manager, separations business group? 7 A: I believe 1979. 8 Q: And what was your next position 9 after that? 1 0 As I retired from that position in 1 1 1 9 8 6. 12 Q: Are you currently on salary to 1 3 Monsanto? 1 4 A : No, ma'am. 1 5 Q: Did you act as a consultant in any 1 6 way after 1 9 8 6 for Monsanto? 1 7 A : No, ma' am, 1 8 Q: Why did you leave Monsanto in 19 1968 ? 2 0 MR. MAYER: Go ahead. 2 1 A: Two primary reasons. There were a 2 2 ^irumber of reasons. I had planned to take 2 3 early retirement for several years and was 2 4 developing a place in the country to change 2 5 my lifestyle. And I also had a serious Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402; 2 6_______________________________________________ .___________________________________________________________________________ 1 health problem, which accelerated the 2 timetable. And Monsanto, in 1986, offered 3 an incentive program for early retirement, 4 so the timing -- the combination of those 5 things were the reason I left Monsanto. 6 Q: So, you were describing why you 7 retired in 1986? 8 As Yes. Is that what you asked? 9 Q: No. What I asked was -- but 1 0 that's fine. What I asked was, why did you 1 1 leave Monsanto in 1968? 12 A: Oh, I'm sorry. 1 3 MR. MAYER: I think you said '86, 1 4 counsel . 1 5 MS. GRADY: If that's the case, 1 6 then your answer is perfectly 1 7 understandable. What I'd like to know 1 8 about is why you left in '68. 1 9 A: Purely personal reasons. I had a 2 0 hankering to go into business for myself. 2 1 The very nature of my employment at 2 2 #onsanto required a personality of that 2 3 type, so I wanted to go into business for 2 4 myself, and I took a flyer. 2 5 Q: What kind op business did you Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402: 27 1 start? 2 A: Opened up a large restaurant in 3 Titusville, Florida. 4 Qs When did you first hear about 5 PCBs ? 6 MR. MAYER: Objection, vague, 7 over-broad. Go ahead. 8 A: As far as I can recollect, when I 9 joined Monsanto in 1963. 1 0 MS. GRADY: And what do you recall 1 1 hearing about PCBs upon joining Monsanto in 12 19 6 3 ? 1 3 A: They were a major component of a 1 4 product line called Aroclors, which were 1 5 used in - 1 6 MR. MAYER: You've answered the 1 7 question. 1 8 MS. GRADY: Excuse me, counsel. 1 9 Please do not interrupt the witness when he 2 0 is giving an answer. Please continue, Mr. 2 1 Early, with your answer. 2 2 MR. MAYER: Well, counsel, I'm not 2 3 interrupting. I just want the witness to 2 4 understand that he's required to answer 2 5 your question and nothing more. Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004023 2_8__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 MS. GRADY: No, that's not true. 2 The witness is required to give me his full 3 recollection in response to the question. 4 It had not been exhausted and you did 5 interrupt the witness, and please do not do 6 it again. 7 MR. MAYER: Counsel, I'll defend 8 my witness as I see fit, thank you. Go 9 ahead, Mr. Early. 1 0 A: Would you repeat the question, 1 1 please? , 1 2 MS. GRADY: Sure. What did you 1 3 learn about PCBs upon joining Monsanto in 14 1 9 6 3 ? 1 5 A: They were -- PCBs were called 1 6 Aroclors, a line of synthetic fluids. 1 7 Q: And what did you understand about 1 8 the chemical composition? 1 9 A: Chlorinated biphenyls. 2 0 Q: Had you ever heard of PCBs prior 2 1 to joining Monsanto? 2 2 A: Not to my recollection. 2 3 Q: Was it your understanding that the 2 4 formulation of PCBs was a trade secret of 2 5 Monsanto's? , Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040232 29 1 A: Yes. 2 Qs When you returned to Monsanto in 3 1970, did your work involve lubricants in .4 any way ? 5 As No, ma'am. 6 Qs Let me show you an organizational 7 chart that I think is beyond the time when 8 you were working with lubricants, but maybe 9 we can establish that. I'd like to mark 1 0 this as Exhibit 614. I'll describe Exhibit 1 1 614 for the record as bearing Bates number 1 2 Tran 085889 through 085894. 1 3 MR. MAYERs For the record, my 1 4 copy seems to begin only with 8 9 0, which is 1 5 repeated twice. Yours, as well the 1 6 witness's copy, as well, is missing 889. 1 7 MS. GRADYs I'll describe it for 1 8 the record, then, as Tran 085890 through 1 9 085894. I'd like to direct your attention, 2 0 Mr. Early, to the third page of the exhibit 2 1 which, up at the top, says "Director 2 2 .Junctional products group, J. Mason." And 2 3 you will find your name in the third 2 4 column. 2 5 A: This is page -- , Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040233 3_0__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 Q: Page 085892, 2 MR. MAYER: That would be the 3 fourth page of our exhibit. 4 MS. GRADY: Because you have two 5 page 90's? 6 MR. MAYER: Right. All right? 7 A: All right. Yes. All right. 8 Q: What was the corporate fire group? 9 A: A corporate group involved with 1 0 the broader question of product fire safety 1 1 to keep abreast of regulatory activities in 1 2 this area, keep our business groups 1 3 informed so that our products were legal 1 4 and safe for intended applications. The 1 5 reason -- should I answer the reason we're 1 6 on this chart? 1 7 MR. MAYER: Well, she asked you 1 8 what' the group was, so you can answer that 1 9 question. 2 0 A: All right. This corporate group 2 1 was set up by the corporate vice-president 2 2 of technology on the board of directors, 2 3 and he funded the group, but he wasn't 2 4 involved with the day-to-day administrative 2 5 -- administration of our activities, so Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040234 3 1___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 our group was plugged in to this chart for 2 administrative purposes only. We were not 3 part of the mainstream activities of this 4 busines s group. 5 Q: Was the corporate fire group 6 created around 1970? 7 As Yes. 8 Qs Did your work with the corporate 9 fire group relate in any way to Aroclors? 1 0 A: Not that I recall. 1 1 Q: Did all of the work that you did 1 2 with Monsanto that in any way related to 1 3 PCBs or Aroclors occur between 1963 and 14 1968? 1 5 A: To the best of myrecollection. 1 6 Qs Did you play any role in the 1 7 development of Turbinol? 1 8 As I wasn't familiar with Turbinol, 1 9 per se. The precursor to Turbinol -- I 2 0 may have been involved with the development 2 1 of some of the Pydrauls, which were later 2 2 named T u rbinol, after I left the group in 2 3 '68. I don't believe there was a Turbinol 2 4 fluid in the company during my tenure in 2 5 the ' 60' s . I can't recollect there being. Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402' 3_2___________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 Q: Were you involved in the 2 development of certain Pydraul products? 3 As Yes, ma'am. 4 Q: Was it your understanding that the 5 Pydraul products, or some of the Pydraul 6 products were precursors to Turbinol? 7 As Not during my employment, no. 8 Q ; Were you involved at all with the 9 product called MCS-153? 1 0 As Not that I can recall. 1 1 Q : Were you involved at all in 1 2 development or in any other way with a 1 3 product called OS-81? 14 As No. Not to my best recollection. 1 5 Q: What does the designation MCS 1 6 stand for? 1 7 As I think originally somebody 1 8 considered that to be Monsanto Chemical 19 Sample, designated a --but it took on 2 0 more commercial significance later. 2 1 Qs What was the commercial 2 2 significance of the designation MCS? 2 3 As I don't really know. It was just 2 4 associated with Monsanto. 2 5 Qs So, that was a commercial name for Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040236 3 3___________________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________ 1 certain Monsanto products were designated 2 MCS ? 3 As No. I think it was not a 4 commercial name. It was designation of 5 experimental, newer products. 6 Q: So, what's your understanding of 7 how the designation MCS came to be 8 associated with Monsanto? 9 A: Monsanto Chemical Sample. Because 1 0 of what it stands for, Monsanto Chemical 1 1 Sample. 1 2 Q: Did the MCS designation indicate 1 3 that the chemical had not yet been put into 1 4 production? 1 5 MR. MAYER: Objection, calls for 1 6 speculation. 1 7 A: I don't really know how to answer 1 8 that, especially with these products that 1 9 were before my time. If I used an MCS 2 0 designation it would be for a newer product 2 1 that we didn't have field experience with 2 2 yet, and until we had established its 2 3 utility and safety and other factors in the 2 4 field we didn't want to attach to it a 2 5 commercial name such as Pydraul or Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402: 3_4___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 Skydraul. Does that answer your question? 2 MR. MAYERs Keep in mind, the 3 important thing is whether you think you've 4 answered the question. 5 A: All right. 6 MS. GRADY: Did you ever perform 7 any experiments with Aroclors? 8 A: I was involved in tests with 9 Aroc1or-containing fluids. 1 0 Q: What was your involvement? 11 A: In-house at Monsanto I was 1 2 primarily an observer of fire tests that we 1 3 would run on experimental fluids. And I 1 4 would help judge whether the fire tests 1 5 were successful or not. And, if not, we 1 6 wouldn't take them to the market. 1 7 Q: What about outside of Monsanto, 1 8 how were you involved with experiments with 1 9 Aroclors? . 2 0 A: It's hard to recall. I remember 2 1 one instance where a customer wanted to 2 2 confirm the fire safety characteristics of 2 3 an Aroc1or-containing fluid by designing 2 4 and running a full scale field trial. And 2 5 I was involved with it. There were heaters Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402- 3_5__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 on tank cars, and we would -- the heaters 2 would heat the fluid and they would be 3 pumped through the tank cars of, say, 4 asphalt, or something, to keep it molten. 5 And the customer wanted to see how safe it 6 was, so we deliberately broke a line and 7 set it on fire with the fire department's 8 -- this was near Chicago. That type of 9 thing. I've been at Underwriters 1 0 Laboratories and observed their testing of 11 Aroc1or-containing fluids to determine 12 their safety for some intended use. Those 1 3 are two examples that I can recall. 1 4 Q: Did you meet with your attorney to 1 5 prepare for this deposition? 1 6 MR. MAYER: You may answer yes or 1 7 no . 1 8 A : Yes. 1 9 MS. GRADY: When did you meet? 2 0 A: Yesterday. 2 1 Q: For how long? 2 2 MR. MAYER: Objection, the 2 3 question seeks to invade the attorney work 2 4 product doctrine because it inquires into 2 5 how much time counsel thinks was necessary Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314)241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040239 3_6___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 to meet with the witness. On that basis, I 2 must instruct you not to answer. 3 MS. GRADY: That is an 4 illegitimate objection. 5 MR. MAYER: That's your position. 6 I've stated mine. 7 MS. GRADY: That is myposition. 8 It does not seek to invade communications 9 between attorney and client. 1 0 MR. MAYER: I said work product, I 1 1 didn't say privilege. 12 MS. GRADY: And the time you spent 1 3 with your client -- it is your position, 1 4 just for the record, the time you spent 15 with your client is work product? 1 6 MR. MAYER: Of course. The time 1 7 spent with the client is dictated by my 1 8 thoughts and mental impressions concerning 1 9 the case. 2 0 MS. GRADY: Mr. Early, were you 2 1 shown documents by your counsel in 2 2 preparing for your deposition today? 2 3 MR. MAYER: You may answer yes or 2 4 no . 2 5 A : Yes . Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040240 ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 37 1 MS. GRADY: Howmany documents 2 were you shown? 3 A: I don't recall how many. 4 Q: Give me a ball park? 5 MR. MAYER: She's entitled to your 6 best estimate, nothing more. 7 A: Four or five. 8 MS. GRADY: Did any of the 9 documents you were shown refresh your 1 0 recollection about events that occurred 11 during your employment with Monsanto? 1 2 MR. MAYER: You may answer yes or 1 3 no . 1 4 A : Yes. 1 5 MS. GRADY: What events that 1 6 occurred while you were employed by 1 7 Monsanto did you have a better memory of 1 8 after you looked at documents than before? 1 9 A: It's hard to say. I don't know. 2 0 I had not recalled MCS-153, and then I 2 1 remembered that somewhere back in my 2 2 history there wassuch a product. If I had 2 3 been involved with its development, I would 2 4 have known. I don't recall other examples. 2 5 Q: Did each of the documents that you Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402' _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 38 1 were shown help you remember better events 2 that occurred while you were employed by 3 Monsanto? 4 A: I don't really know if each of the 5 documents did or not. 6 Q: Was it your impression that they 7 did ? 8 As Probably not all of them. 9 Q: Do you recall seeing any document 1 0 and saying this just doesn't help me at 1 1 all, I still don't remember this? 1 2 MR. MAYER: Do you understand the 1 3 question? 1 4 As Yes. But I don't know the answer 1 5 to it. I don't know whether I saw a 1 6 document that did or didn't help me 1 7 recollect events of the past. I honestly 1 8 don' t . 1 9 MS. GRADYs Well, earlier you 2 0 testified that you believed that when you 2 1 saw these documents it did help you recall 2 2 events in the past? 2 3 A: I said yes, some of them. 2 4 Q: Some of the documents? 2 5 A s Yes . ! Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040242 3_9__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 Q: Okay. Well, we'll take this up as 2 we go along. The next exhibit I'd like to 3 show you is Exhibit 615, which we're 4 marking here today, which I will describe 5 for the record as a one page document 6 bearing Bate's number Tran 009152, which 7 purports to be a memorandum from C.L. Early 8 to E.P. Wheeler, dated April 30, 1964. And 9 I'd ask that you read this exhibit, Mr. 1 0 Early, and tell me if you have seen it 1 1 prior to today? 1 2 MR. MAYER: Let me interpose an 1 3 objection that any inquiry into what 1 4 documents were shown to Mr. Early yesterday 1 5 would invade the attorney work product 1 6 doctrine, because it would require the 1 7 thoughts, mental impressions and theories 1 8 of counsel as to what was important to show 1 9 the wit n ess. 2 0 MS. GRADY: Let me state for the 2 1 record that that is an illegitimate 2 2 objection. Under California law I'm 2 3 entitled to inquire as to what documents 2 4 were shown the witness to attempt to 2 5 refresh his recollection, and I'm building Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402^ 40__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 a foundation, as you well know, to obtain 2 the documents that were used to refresh his 3 recollection. 4 MR. MAYER: I assumed you would, 5 counsel. I call your attention to Judge 6 Brown and Weil's discussion in the 7 California Practice Guide of Civil 8 Procedure before trial where they 9 specifically upheld this objection. I 1 0 would note, also, this is consistent with 1 1 the position that's been taken by Monsanto 1 2 counsel to date. 1 3 MS. GRADY: I'll note that it 1 4 wasn't taken by Mr. Preuss last - 1 5 MR. MAYER: Mr. Preuss is a little 1 6 taller than me, a little older, a lot 1 7 better looking, so, therefore, he's not me. 1 8 MS. GRADY: When you said Monsanto 19 counsel, you just meant yourself? 2 0 MR. MAYER: No. I meant Monsanto 2 1 counsel, myself and others. 2 2 ... A: I wrote the document, I saw it. I 2 3 wrote it. 2 4 MS. GRADY: Is that your 2 5 signature, Mr. Early? Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040244 41 1 A : Yes. 2 Q: And you have no reason to believe 3 you didn't write this document, right? 4 As No, I have no reason to believe I 5 did not write this document. 6 Qs Who is E.P. Wheeler? 7 A: He was a member of the Monsanto 8 medical department involved with assessing 9 the safety and toxicity characteristics of 1 0 products. 1 1 Qs And how did your work bring you 1 2 into contact with Mr. Wheeler? 13 As I was involved with new - 1 4 introducing new products to the 1 5 marketplace, and we took no product out 1 6 that did not have the medical department's 1 7 approval from the standpoint of safe 1 8 handling. 1 9 Q: Did you play any role in 2 0 determining what tests would be conducted 2 1 by the medical department to determine safe 2 2 handling ? 2 3 As No, ma'am. 2 4 Qs Was every product that was 2 5 formulated while you were at Monsanto Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040245 4 2____________________________________________________________ __________________ ______________________ 1 between 1 9 6 3 and 1 9 6 8 that you had any 2 involvement with sent to the medical 3 department for a determination of safe 4 handling ? 5 MR. MAYER: Objection, vague and 6 ambiguous as to safe handling. Can you 7 break that down, counsel? 8 MS. GRADY: No. I'm just using 9 the term the same way you did. You can 1 0 answer. 1 1 A: Every product that I handled or 12 was involved with taking to the market went 1 3 to the medical department for assessment. 1 4 I had to have their approval regarding its 1 5 safety for the intended use. 1 6 Q: Did you have any discussions with 1 7 customers -- and I'm focusing all of my 18 questions -- let me makethis preface. I'm 1 9 focusing all my questions from now on, 2 0 unless I tell you differently, during the 2 1 period 1 9 6 3 to 1 9 6 8 when your work in some 2 2 way involved Aroclors and lubricants. 2 3 During that time period did you have any 2 4 discussions with any customers concerning 2 5 toxicity of Monsanto products? Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040246 4_3___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 A: Only in a general way. When 2 presenting data on a new product, I would 3 discuss the technical material and call 4 their attention to the safe handling 5 information that was prepared by our 6 medical department and included verbatim in 7 the brochure or literature. 8 Qs What do you mean by the term safe 9 hand 1ing ? 1 0 A: How to handle the product safely. 1 1 To -- you don't drink it. If you 12 accidentally get it on your skin, wash, 1 3 take a bath. If you have a spill in the 1 4 plant, clean it up. 1 5 Q: At any time during 1 9 6 3 and 1968 1 6 did you discuss with any customer health 1 7 warnings concerning Monsanto products? 1 8 MR. MAYER: Objection, vague and 1 9 ambiguous as to health warnings. 2 0 A: I was not a toxicologist or 2 1 trained medically, I referred any such 2 2 inquiry, if I had any, and I don't 2 3 recollect any specific inquiries, I would 2 4 automatically direct them to Elmer Wheeler. 2 5 MS. GRADY: How did you come into Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402' 44________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________________________ 1 contact with customers during this period 2 of your work at Monsanto? 3 As Many different ways. Many times 4 we would get inquiries cold from the field 5 for - - somebody needs something we might 6 have. In development of new products, I 7 knew from experience where some of them 8 might apply, we'd make contacts. And a 9 third avenue would be through trade 1 0 association meetings discussing customer 1 1 needs with people there. 12 Qs When you indicated in your answer 1 3 that you sometimes got inquiries cold, were 1 4 you referring to yourself? 1 5 A : Yes. 1 6 Q: So, calls would come in directly 1 7 to you from the field? 1 8 A: Yes. Although they might come 1 9 through the operator, or -- sometimes 2 0 directly to me. Because I was fairly well 2 1 known in the marketplace. However, 2 2 sometimes they would come in through some 2 3 other route and be referred to me. 2 4 Q: Did you ever have any contact with 2 5 a company called Transwestern Pipeline Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040248 4_5__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 Company ? 2 A : No, ma'am. 3 Q: Did you ever have any contact with 4 a company called Texas Eastern Transmission 5 Company ? 6 As To the best of my recollection, I 7 made one call to Texas Eastern with Dale 8 Smith of Monsanto, at his request. 9 Q: What was the purpose of the call, 1 0 as you understood it? 1 1 A: Again, I'm taxing my 12 recollection. Texas Eastern was a customer 1 3 of Monsanto for Aroc1or-containing fluids, 1 4 and Dale Smith was the marketing manager in 1 5 charge of the Texas Eastern account. Some 1 6 of the products I was trying to develop 1 7 would be lower cost versions of what we 1 8 were already selling into the marketplace. 1 9 And if my memory serves me right, Dale 2 0 Smith asked me to accompany him so that his 2 1 customer would hear about this new line of 2 2 products that we were working on from 2 3 Monsanto rather than by hearsay, other 2 4 sources. 2 5 Q: Where did you go on this -- Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402< 46 1 I do not remember. 2 Q: Who did you talk to at Texas 3 Eastern? 4 A: I do not remember. 5 Q: What did you say on your visit? 6 A: I do not remember. 7 Q: Did you discuss a low cost 8 substitute for MCS-153 -- a lower cost, 9 let me say? 1 0 As Presumably, but I do not 11 remember. I do not remember the meeting. 1 2 I do remember Dale inviting me to go, and I 1 3 went. 1 4 Q: Is that your entire recollection 15 of any contact with Texas Eastern 1 6 Transmission Company at any time? 1 7 A: I'm sorry, that is all I remember. 1 8 MR. MAYER: There is no reason to 1 9 apologize, sir. That's your memory. 2 0 As I don't remember. 2 1 MS. GRADY: Up at the top of page 2 2 615 -- I'm sorry, Exhibit 615, there is a 2 3 little designation under the cc column that 2 4 says 11 df , " and then there is a colon next 2 5 to it. Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314)241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040250 _______________________________________________________________________________ 12 1 A : A11 right . 2 Q: Do you recall, in Monsanto usage, 3 what, if anything, that term meant? 4 As Development file. 5 Q : And what did the " F F " stand for? 6 As Functional fluids. 7 MS. GRADY s Do you need a break? 8 (Recess). 9 MS. GRADYs Mr. Early, in 1 0 developing a new product at Monsanto, what 11 groups within Monsanto were involved? 12 MR. MAYERs Objection, 1 3 over-broad. 1 4 As Do I answer? 1 5 MS . GRADY s Yes. 1 6 MR. MAYER: If you can. 1 7 A: Primarily, the research 1 8 department, commercial development 1 9 department and the marketing department 2 0 could all be involved. 2 1 Qs How did the work of the research 2 2 department and the commercial development 2 3 department differ? 2 4 A: The research department did the 2 5 hands-on formulation work and product Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402' ________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 48 1 testing and the like. The commercial 2 development department would provide 3 guidance to research in terms of what the 4 market needs, what should they be working 5 on. And it would also provide information 6 on the critically important properties the 7 product might have. And they would 8 introduce the product into the marketplace 9 with the customer. 1 0 Q: In your work in the commercial 1 1 development department, did you play any 1 2 role in suggesting formulations to be 1 3 tested? 14 A: Sometimes. 1 5 Q: And what were your suggestions 1 6 based on? 1 7 A: The primary instance that this 1 8 happened was in getting lower cost 1 9 synthetic fluids by utilizing special kinds 2 0 of mineral oil, that would lower the cost, 2 1 but not reduce the fire resistance 2 2 significantly. 2 3 Q: At what stage in the development 2 4 of a new product was the toxicity testing 2 5 done? Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 I HARTOLDMON0040252 ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ 49 1 A: Once we were reasonably satisfied 2 that the product had the properties that we 3 wanted and the costs to take to the 4 marketplace, we then sent samples to the 5 medical department, told them the intended 6 use and got their expert evaluation. 7 Q : At what stage in the development 8 of a new product was field testing done? 9 As Well, after the formulation work 1 0 was done, we were satisfied that the 1 1 properties were adequate, there were always 1 2 compromises, costs were right, the medical 1 3 department had given us the green light on 1 4 toxicity and the like, and we also had our 1 5 legal department and some people in higher 1 6 management review the product before it 1 7 went out to see if -- for whatever reason. 1 8 Q: I'm sorry, I didn't understand. 1 9 A: For various reasons. The pricing, 2 0 for example, always involved people in 2 1 management, and we didn't go out without 2 2 their approval. 2 3 Q: The next exhibit is one I'd like 2 4 to mark today as Exhibit 617. 2 5 MR. MAYER: 616, actually. Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314)241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402 5_0_______________ __________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 MS. GRADY: I'm skipping, because 2 I've pre-marked. I'll describe it for the 3 record as a one page document bearing Bates 4 number Tran 0 0 9 1 5 4. It purports to be a 5 memorandum from Elmer P. Wheeler, dated May 6 13, 1964. The title, "MCS-295 toxicity and 7 hazards." "Your memo 5/5/64." And it's 8 addressed to C.P., it's hard to read here, 9 I think Duncler, D - u-n-c- 1 -e-r. And it 1 0 shows a list of cc's, of which Mr. Early is 1 1 one. Could you please read Exhibit 617, 1 2 Mr. Early, so that you can tell me if 1 3 you've seen it prior to today? 1 4 A: All right, I've read it. 1 5 Q: Have you seen Exhibit 617 prior to 1 6 today? 1 7 MR. MAYER: Other than with 1 8 respect to anything that may or may not 1 9 have been shown to you by your attorney 2 0 yesterday, you may answer. 2 1 A: I don't recall it. 22 - MS. GRADY: You don't recall 2 3 seeing it prior to today? 2 4 A : No . 2 5 Q: Was this one of the documents Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 / HARTOLDMON0040254 5 1___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 shown to you by your attorney? 2 MR. MAYER: Objection. Seeks to 3 invade the attorney work product doctrine. 4 For the reasons previously stated, you may 5 not answer that question. 6 MS. GRADY: The last sentence in 7 the first paragraph of the memorandum 8 states, "The reference in the letter to 9 U.S. Steel about containing chlorinated 1 0 hydrocarbons is in order since we would 1 1 have to include such a statement on a label 1 2 for the product anyway." Was there a legal 1 3 requirement that any product containing 1 4 chlorinated hydrocarbons contain a label 1 5 stating as much, to your understanding, in 1 6 your work at Monsanto in the research 1 7 department ? 1 8 MR. MAYER: Objection, vague and 1 9 ambiguous, calls for a legal conclusion. 2 0 Do you understand the question? 2 1 A: Yes. 2 2 .. MR. MAYER: Go ahead. 2 3 A: I don't recall any such 2 4 requirement . 2 5 MS. GRADY: What's a chlorinated Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402f 5 2______________________________ __________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 hydrocarbon? 2 As A carbonaceous material with 3 chlorine attached to it. 4 Q: Is natural gas a chlorinated 5 hydrocarbon? 6 As No . 7 Qs Is natural gas a hydrocarbon? 8 As Yes . 9 Qs Do you recall in your work at 1 0 Monsanto between 1963 and 1968 informing 1 1 any customer that a Monsanto product 12 contained Aroclors? 1 3 As I do not recall specific examples 1 4 of so informing customers. It was not a 1 5 secret, however. 1 6 Qs But you have no recollection of 1 7 informing customers that products, Monsanto 1 8 products contained Aroclors, is that 1 9 correct? 2 0 MR. MAYERs Objection, asked and 2 1 answe red. 2 2 . As I know that many of my customers 2 3 knew this, we did not keep it a secret. 2 4 MS. GRADY s Move to strike the 2 5 answer as non-responsive . Do you recall Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402J 5_3__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 informing any customers during your work at 2 Monsanto during the time frame 1 9 6 3 to 1968 3 that Monsanto products contained Aroclors? 4 MR. MAYER: Objection, asked and 5 answered. 6 MS. GRADY: It hasn't been 7 answered, counsel. 8 MR. MAYER: I disagree. 9 A: I do not recall specific examples 1 0 of telling this to customers. 1 1 Q: The rules of the deposition, Mr. 12 Early, are that unless your counsel 1 3 instructs you not to answer a question, and 1 4 there are very limited circumstances when 1 5 such an instruction would be legally 1 6 justified, then the rule is that you answer 1 7 the question. And your counsel, quite 1 8 legitimately, is preserving the objections 1 9 for a judge to decide. The judge gets to 2 0 decide if all of these objections will be 2 1 sustained or overruled at some point. Was 2 2 there -- I'm referring to the sentence in 2 3 Exhibit 617 that states, "We could make a 2 4 more definitive interpretation of the 2 5 specific hazards with MCS-295 if we could Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402E _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 reveal the formulation. " Was there a 54 2 policy at Monsanto not to reveal the 3 formulation of its products to customers? 4 A : Yes . 5 Q: The next exhibit I'm going to mark 6 today is Exhibit 618, which I will describe 7 for the record as a two page document, 8 Bates range Tran 056589 through 90, which 9 purports to be a letter to C.N. Bunting, 1 0 B-u-n-t-i-n-g, dated May 13, 1964, from R. 11 Emmet Kelly, with a list of blind cc's, 1 2 including Mr. Early. And I'd ask you to 1 3 read this document, Mr. Early, and tell me 1 4 if you have seen it prior to today? 1 5 A: I do not recollect seeing this 1 6 document. 1 7 Q: Was there a procedure within 1 8 Monsanto during 1963 and '68 to distribute 1 9 correspondence to the people who were cc'd 2 0 on the correspondence? 2 1 MR. MAYER: Objection. Vague, 2 2 ambiguous, over-broad, lacking in 2 3 f ounda tion. 2 4 MS. GRADY: Even though there were 2 5 many of them, none of them said don't Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402J 5 5__________________________ ;________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 answer, so you still need to answer. 2 MR. MAYER: Do you have the 3 question in mind, sir? 4 A: Please ask it again. 5 MS. GRADY: Sure. Was there a 6 procedure in place at Monsanto during your 7 employment there between 1963 and 1968 to 8 distribute correspondence to people who 9 were cc'd on the correspondence? 1 0 A : Yes. 1 1 Q: So, itwas your understanding that 12 if someone else within Monsanto cc'd you on 1 3 a document, you would receive it in the 1 4 normal course, is that correct? 1 5 A : Yes. 1 6 Q: And howdid you receive the 1 7 correspondence that was cc'd to you? Was 1 8 there a distribution system? 1 9 A: The mail distribution system. 2 0 Q: Let me direct your attention down 2 1 to the last paragraph on the first page of 2 2 Exhibit 618. Do you recall if there was a 2 3 standard warning for Aroclor products? 2 4 MR. MAYER: Objection, vague and 2 5 ambiguous as to standard warning. Could Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402: 5 6__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 you explain that, counsel? 2 MS. GRADY: Do you understand my 3 question, Mr. Early? 4 A : Yes. 5 Q: Could you answer it, please? 6 MR. MAYER: Could I have the 7 question read back? 8 (The requested portion of the 9 record read by the reporter) . 1 0 MR. MAYER: The same objection. 1 1 A: In my experience, every product I 1 2 took to the field, I asked the medical 1 3 department's opinion on toxicity and safe 1 4 handling for the intended use, and I always 1 5 told them how we expected it to be used. 1 6 And their response was in that context. 1 7 And they varied from use to use to some 1 8 degree . 1 9 Q: Have you ever heard the term 2 0 chloracne? Chloracne? 2 1 A: I don't recall. I may have, but I 2 2 don't recall. 2 3 Q: Did you ever hear anything about 2 4 Monsanto employees who were in the 2 5 production process for Aroclors suffering Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402G 57 1 from a skin disease associated with their 2 contact with the Aroclors? 3 As No, ma'am. 4 Q: Did you ever get any Aroclors on 5 you in any of your work at Monsanto? 6 A: Yes, ma'am. 7 Q: What precautions did you take when 8 you were working around Aroclors? 9 A: Primarily, I would wash up good 1 0 afterward, they were mild irritants. And I 1 1 would avoid breathing hot vapors because 12 they were irritating, such as in fire 1 3 tests . 1 4 Q: Anything else? 1 5 A : No . 1 6 Q: During 1 9 6 3 and 1 9 6 8 do you recall 1 7 any environmental tests being done on any 1 8 of the products you were involved in 1 9 developing? 2 0 MR. MAYER: Objection. Vague and 2 1 ambiguous as to environmental tests. 2 2 A: No, ma'am. 2 3 MS. GRADY: Do you know, when you 2 4 returned to Monsanto in 1970, whether 2 5 Monsanto was conducting environmental tests Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402( 5_8_________________ __ _______________ _____________________________________________________________________________________ 1 on all or certain of the products it was 2 developing for market? 3 MR. MAYER: Same objection. 4 A : No, ma'am. 5 MS. GRADY: You have no 6 familiarity with any environmental tests 7 conducted for any Monsanto products, is 8 that correct? 9 MR. MAYER: Same objection. Do 1 0 you understand the question? 1 1 A: I think so. I don't know of any 1 2 environmental tests being conducted. 1 3 MS. GRADY: When you provided 1 4 information to the medical department on 1 5 the intended use of products that you were 1 6 working on, what kind of information did 1 7 you provide? 1 8 A: An example would be a die casting 1 9 machine for aluminum and zinc parts. The 2 0 die casting machine would include molten 2 1 metal that could be an ignition source, and 2 2 it was actuated by hydraulic mechanisms 2 3 which could break and create a fire 2 4 condition. There were operators at the 2 5 machines. So I would give this kind of an Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040262 ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 intended use as an example. 59 2 Q: Did you provide any information - 3 during this time period when you were 4 working on the development of lubricants, 5 did you provide any information to the 6 medical department concerning exposure of 1 the product to the environment? 8 MR. MAYERs Objection, vague and 9 ambigu ou s . 1 0 A: No, not to my recollection. 1 1 MS. GRADY: The next exhibit I'd 1 2 like to mark today is Exhibit 6 2 0 , which I 1 3 will describe for the record as a 1 4 multi-page document headed on the first 1 5 page "Progress Report, Organic Chemicals 1 6 Division," bearing Bates numbers Tran 1 1 0 0 5 6 9 1 through 5 7 0 7. You can read as much 1 8 of this document as you would like, Mr. 1 9 Early, but mainly I'm interested in the 2 0 form of the document, not its contents, so 2 1 if you could familiarize yourself with the 2 2 form, that would probably be adequate for 2 3 the questions I'm going to ask you. 2 4 A: Well, I'm familiar with the 2 5 format. I'm looking, I'm familiar with it Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040263 _________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 60 1 by having just read it and looked at it, 2 yes. 3 Qj Have you seen Exhibit 620, this 4 exact exhibit, prior to today? 5 MR. MAYER: With the exception of 6 any documents which may or may not be shown 7 to you by counsel, sir, you may answer. 8 A: I do not recall this document - 9 seeing this document. 1 0 MS. GRADY: You do recall seeing 1 1 the form of this document, is that correct? 1 2 A : Yes, ma'am. 1 3 Q: Can you tell me what Exhibit 620 14 is in its basic format? 1 5 A: It's a progress report, as it 1 6 says, by the research department on work 1 7 that they've done for a period, in this 1 8 case April through June. 1 9 Q: Did you use progress reports in 2 0 your day-to-day work at Monsanto during the 2 1 period '63 to '68? 2 2 A: Not much. 2 3 Q: Was it your understanding that you 2 4 were only copied on progress reports that 2 5 included research that was being done on Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (.314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402 6_1__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 projects that you were involved in in some 2 way? Let me strike that, that's a bad 3 question. Let me make it simpler for you, 4 Mr. Early. Did you have any understanding 5 of what progress reports you received, 6 whether you received all of them or some 7 sub-set of them? 8 A: I received most progress reports 9 that were involved with functional fluids. 1 0 They summarized the work. But the 1 1 information that was pertinent to my 12 particular projects I had already received 1 3 before these were issued. 1 4 Q: So, you would have direct contact 1 5 with the research department on the 1 6 projects on which you were working, is that 1 7 correct? 1 8 A : Yes. 1 9 Q: Did the progress reports summarize 2 0 all research that was done by the research 2 1 department in any given time period? 22 - MR. MAYER: Objection, calls for 2 3 speculation. 2 4 A: I can't answer if it included all 2 5 the work or not. Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402I 62 1 MS. GRADY: You understand that 2 every question I ask you, Mr. Early, calls 3 for speculation if you don't know the 4 answer, so if you don't know the answer to 5 the question, that's a perfectly adequate 6 response. Did you do work on the Therminol 7 products? 8 A: Yes, some of them. 9 Q: Was it the policy or practice 1 0 within Monsanto to circulate a progress 1 1 report for the reformulation of each 1 2 product? 1 3 MR. MAYER: Objection, over-broad 1 4 as to time. What time frame are we talking 1 5 about ? 1 6 MS . GRADY: '63 to '68. 1 7 A: I think not. We would report 1 8 everything they tried, but -- summary 1 9 reports. 2 0 MS. GRADY: Based on your 2 1 understanding of the research department in 2 2 Monsanto and how it related to the 2 3 development department if a product was 2 4 reformulated, would you expect to see a 2 5 research department progress report on Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 63 1 reformulation? 2 A: Yes. 3 Q: How did you use research 4 department progress reports in your work, 5 if you did? 6 A: Primarily, just to keep up-to-date 7 on the progress of the work that was being 8 done. 9 Qs Did you use any of the objective 1 0 technical information in the progress 1 1 report for any of your job duties? 1 2 As Yes. 1 3 Q s How so? 1 4 As When we were -- when work was far 1 5 enough along to justify taking a product 1 6 out of the company to the field, we would 1 7 prepare technical brochures for customer 1 8 use and we would extract data and 1 9 information from research reports' as 2 0 appropriate. 2 1 Qs Have you ever heard of a company 2 2 called Columbia Gulf? 2 3 As No . 2 4 Qs The next exhibit I'd like to mark 2 5 today is Exhibit 621, which I will describe Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 6 4__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 for the record as a two page document 2 bearing Bates range Tran 003061 through 3 3 0 6 2, the first page of which purports to 4 be a memorandum from D.F. Smith dated 5 September 1, 1964, topic, "MCS-153 6 specifications," with a list of cc's which 7 includes Mr. Early. The second page of the 8 document is a memorandum from Mr. Schott, 9 S-c-h-o-t-t, to Mr. -- it's very difficult 1 0 to read, but I think it's Mayward, dated 1 1 August 11, 1964, entitled "MCS-153 1 2 specifications." Could you look at these 1 3 two memoranda that make up Exhibit 621 so 1 4 that you can tell me if you have seen 1 5 either one of them before today? 1 6 MR. MAYER: Again, sir, you may 1 7 respond other than with respect to any 1 8 documents which may have been shown or not 1 9 shown to you by counsel. 2 0 A: I do not recall this document. 2 1 MS. GRADY: Do you have any 2 2 recollection of the specifications for 2 3 MCS-153 changing during any time between 2 4 1 9 6 3 and 1 9 6 8 when you were working on the 2 5 development of industrial lubricants? Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402I 65 1 A : N o, ma'am. 2 Q: Was it within your experience at 3 Monsanto during that same time period that 4 specifications of a product that was being 5 sold would sometimes change? 6 A: Developmental products, by their 7 very nature, the purpose of field trials 8 would be to determine if all the properties 9 were what they should be, so in 1 0 developmental products, yes, they would 1 1 change. In commercial, fully commercial 1 2 products, they would be much less likely to 1 3 change . 1 4 Q: Do you know who D.F. Smith is? 1 5 A: Yes,ma'am. 1 6 Q: Who is he or she? 1 7 A: He was marketing manager for 1 8 synthetic fluids. I don't know the whole 1 9 scope of his job. Marketing manager in the 2 0 synthetic fluids area. 2 1 Q: Was there a policy or practice at 2 2 Monsanto during '63 to '68 to copy the 2 3 development person on memoranda that 2 4 involved products on which they were 2 5 working? Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402 66 1 As Yes. 2 Q: Would that practice lead you to 3 believe that you're copied on this memo 4 because you were working in some way on 5 MCS-153 at this time? 6 MR. MAYER: Objection, calls for 7 speculation as to the author's intent. 8 A: Shall I answer? 9 MR. MAYER: Yes, you may. 1 0 A: Roger Hatton -- this is C.L. 1 1 Early/R.E. Hatton, and Roger Hatton had 1 2 worked with Dale with this product before I 13 joined Monsanto. One of us was copied as a 1 4 courtesy, the other one had some 1 5 responsibility here. 1 6 MS. GRADY: You think it was Mr. 1 7 Hatton that had the responsibility? 1 8 A: Yes, I think. 1 9 Q: How do you know that Mr. Hatton 2 0 worked with Mr. Smith prior to your joining 2 1 Monsanto on the MCS-153 product? 2 2 A: I don't know that. Roger Hatton 2 3 was in the commercial development 2 4 department of functional fluids, Mr. Smith 2 5 was in the marketing department of Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402 6 7_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 functional fluids, and we were all a 2 family, so -- I do not recall specifically 3 Roger's role in MCS-153, nor Dale's. 4 Q: Do you have any general 5 recollection of Mr. Hatton's role, if any, 6 with regard to MCS-153? 7 A: I vaguely recall that this product 8 was developed before I joined the company, 9 and Roger was involved in its development. 1 0 Q: Did you have any conversations 1 1 with Mr. Hatton about MCS-153? 1 2 As I don't recall any such 1 3 conversations. 1 4 Q: Did you have any conversations 1 5 with Mr. Hatton about an industrial 1 6 lubricant for use in gas compressor 1 7 turbines? 1 8 A: With Mr. Hatton? 1 9 Q : Yes. 2 0 As I don't recall discussions of that 2 1 type . 2 2 _ Qs During 1 9 6 3 and 1 9 6 8 were you 2 3 aware of any customers -- let's put Texas 2 4 Eastern to one side -- other customers 2 5 purchasing Monsanto lubricants for use in Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402/ 6 8_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ 1 natural gas compressors? 2 A: I'm not familiar with other 3 customers who purchased synthetic 4 lubricants from Monsanto for gas 5 compressors . 6 Q: Are you familiar with gas 7 compressors in any way other than through 8 this one call you remember making to Texas 9 Eastern? 10 A: Yes . 11 MR. MAYER: Well, objection. The 1 2 question lacks foundation and assumes facts 1 3 not in evidence. Go ahead. 1 4 A: I was working on low cost 1 5 fire-resistant fluids, primarily for 1 6 industrial applications, and in that 1 7 context some of the fluids I developed 1 8 might have application in gas turbine 1 9 lubricants, and I did make some efforts in 2 0 that regard, not with MCS-153. 2 1 MS. GRADY: You did make some 2 2 efforts? 2 3 A : Yes, ma'am. 2 4 Q: What efforts did you make in that 2 5 re ga rd ? Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402, 6_9______________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 As I made calls to a few companies 2 who were in the business of transporting 3 gas. 4 Q: What companies? 5 As I don't recall specifically the 6 names of the companies, except the main 7 focus was in Canada. 8 Qs Do you recall any sales calls you 9 -- not sales calls, but do you recall any 1 0 sales that you made in the United States to 1 1 gas compressor lubricant potential users? 1 2 As I remember one call to El Paso 1 3 Natural Gas. I remember going there, but I 1 4 don't remember the meeting or the results. 1 5 Qs Who did you go there with? 1 6 As Norm Johnson, a marketing manager 1 7 from Monsanto, and a field representative, 1 8 whose name I don't remember. 1 9 Qs What year was this? 2 0 As I don't recall. 2 1 Qs Sometime prior to 1968? 2 2 - As In the '63 to '68 period. 2 3 Qs Did you cite the experience of 2 4 Texas Eastern's use of Monsanto's 2 5 industrial lubricants to El Paso Natural Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 70 1 Gas ? 2 A: I do not recall. 3 Q: Do you recall whether El Paso 4 Natural Gas purchased lubricants subsequent 5 to your visit? 6 A: I think they did not. 7 Q: Do you recall why they did not? 8 A : No, ma'am. 9 Qs Can you tell me anything else that 1 0 you recall about natural gas lubricants and 1 1 El Paso Natural Gas? 1 2 As No . 1 3 Q: What about the companies in 1 4 Canada, who did you visit in Canada? 1 5 A; I don't remember the names of the 1 6 c omp anie s . 1 7 Q: Do you remember anything that was 1 8 said in your visit to El Paso Natural Gas? 1 9 A: No. It's just a blank. 2 0 Q: Okay. And what product was 2 1 discussed at that meeting? 2 2 . A: One of our low cost fire-resistant 2 3 hydraulic fluids that could be used for 2 4 lubrication. I don't remember which one. 2 5 Q: It was your recollection it was Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 7 1___ ____________________________________________ ______ _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 not MCS-153, is that correct? 2 A : It was not MCS-153. 3 Q : Is there some reason you're sure 4 it was not MCS-153? 5 A : To the best of my recollection, I 6 was not involved with MCS-153, that having 7 been developed prior to my joining 8 Monsanto, and Roger Hatton and Dale Smith 9 having shared responsibility for it. 1 0 Q: Is it your best recollection that 1 1 the product that was discussed with El Paso 1 2 Natural Gas was a newly developed product? 1 3 A : Yes. 1 4 Q : Is it your best recollection that 1 5 it was not a reformulation of an existing 1 6 product? 1 7 As I would class it as a new product. 1 8 Q: Was it one of the Pydraul 1 9 products? 2 0 A : Yes. 2 1 Q s Do you recall which one? 2 2 A : No, ma'am. 2 3 Q : How did the Pydraul products 2 4 differ from MCS-153? 2 5 A : The Pydraul products, Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040275 7 2_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 predominantly hydraulic fluids, having 2 developed a product called Pydraul for 3 hydraulic applications, it might also be 4 suitable for something else lubricating a 5 bearing, so I worked primarily on Pydrauls 6 for hydraulic applications and only 7 pheriphera 11y in lubrication. I was not 8 there when MCS-153 was developed, and do 9 not know the primary purpose for its 1 0 deve1opmen t . 1 1 Q: What about the chemical 1 2 formulation of the Pydrauls versus MCS-153, 1 3 were there differences in the chemical 1 4 f o rmu 1 a tio n ? 1 5 A: I don't -- I don't recall the 1 6 composition of 153. The Pydrauls, most of 1 7 them were Aroc1or-containing fluids. 1 8 Q: Do you recall whether the Pydraul 19 that was discussed with El Paso Natural Gas 2 0 contained Aroclors? 2 1 A: I'm sure they did. 2 2 Q: When you distinguish between 2 3 MCS-153 and the Pydrauls, are you focusing 2 4 on the end uses for which they were 2 5 ma rk e t e d ? Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402' 7_3____________________________________________________ ______ ___________________________________ __ _______________________________________________________________________________ 1 A: I'm saying I don't know what -- I 2 really was not involved with MCS-153, and 3 don't know the answer to that. 4 Q: I'll tell you what I'm doing, I'm 5 trying to figure out whether you define in 6 your own mind the products that you recall 7 working on in terms of their end uses. So, 8 for example -- this is all preamble, this 9 is not a question.' So, for example you 1 0 testified that you worked on Pydrauls for 1 1 hydraulic applications, not lubricants. So 1 2 here's the question. Do you make a 1 3 connection in your mind between MCS-153 as 1 4 a lubricating fluid rather than a hydraulic 1 5 compressor fluid as the reason that you 1 6 think that you didn't work on MCS-153? 1 7 MR. MAYER: Objection, 1 8 mischaracterizes his prior testimony. Go 1 9 ahead. 2 0 A: No, I don't think that's 2 1 accurate. More or less older commercial 2 2 fluids were the domain of marketing, if you 2 3 like. Dale Smith. And this one, despite 2 4 its designation MCS, fell in that 2 5 category. I was looking to the future for Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402/ 7 4__________________________________ ________________________________ ________ ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 new and different fluids as opposed to 2 application orientation. 3 Q: Do you recall any discussion 4 within Monsanto about why MCS-153 was not 5 presented to El Paso Natural Gas as a 6 lubricating fluid during your visit there? 7 A: I don't recall. 8 Qs Do you recall if there was 9 competition between MCS-153 and the Pydraul 1 0 series? 1 1 A: There was, in the sense that the 1 2 Pydraul that I was working on cost less 1 3 than the earlier versions. We didn't make 1 4 an effort to push our existing products out 1 5 of the application. 1 6 Q: The next exhibit I'd like to use 1 7 was marked in the deposition of Mr. Hatton 1 8 as Exhibit 17, so it's a prior marked 1 9 exhibit. I ask you to take a look at this, 2 0 Mr. Early, and it's going to be the same 2 1 question, whether you've seen Exhibit 17 2 2 prior to today? 2 3 MR. MAYER: Sir, you may respond 2 4 with respect to having seen it before other 2 5 than with respect to the documents which Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402 7 5___ _____________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 may have been shown or not shown to you by 2 counsel. 3 As I wrote it, so I must have seen 4 it . 5 MS. GRADY: That's your signature 6 at the bottom? 7 As Yes, ma'am. 8 Qs You, in fact, drafted Exhibit 17, 9 is that correct? 1 0 As I presume so. I don't recollect 1 1 doing it, but my signature is on it, I 1 2 presume I did. 1 3 Qs And Exhibit 17 is the kind of 1 4 document that you drafted as part of your 1 5 job duties at Monsanto, is that correct? 1 6 As Yes. 1 7 Q: Was Pydraul 312 one of the 1 8 products that you were working on 1 9 deve1 oping ? 2 0 As Yes, ma'am. 2 1 Qs What was Pydraul 312? 2 2 As You mean composition-wise? 2 3 Qs No. Let me clarify. What were 2 4 the intended end uses for Pydraul 312? 2 5 As Primarily, hydraulic fluids for Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004027 7 6________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 industrial applications such as die 2 casting, steel mill rolling mills, hot 3 metal ignition sources and coal mine 4 applications where fires are an absolute 5 disaster. 6 Q: Was it being marketed for 7 hydraulic uses in coal mines? 8 As Yes, ma'am. 9 Q: What's a hydraulic use? 1 0 A: The machinery in coal mines -- do 1 1 you mean in coal mines? 1 2 Q : Yes. 1 3 As In coal mines, most of the 1 4 machinery is hydraulically actuated, and 1 5 they areat higher pressures than many 1 6 industrial applications, so the -- so the 1 7 cutting machines and things like that are 1 8 powered by hydraulic machinery. 1 9 Qs And what was the Pydrau1 - 3 1 2 ' s 2 0 function in this? 2 1 As The hydraulic system contained 2 2 Pydraul - 3 12. You would have a pump that 2 3 would build up pressure, Dennison pump, for 2 4 example, and this pump would suck in the 2 5 fluid on one end, pressurize it and push it Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402) 7_7_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 out the other end, and it would do work 2 downstream in cutting the coal or powering 3 the machinery. 4 Qs So, was the Pydraul- 3 12 the liquid 5 that was subjected to the pressure? 6 A : Yes, ma'am. 7 Q: Who's Mr. Davis? 8 A? He was a marketing manager in the 9 functional fluids group. 1 0 Q: Do you recall discussing with Mr. 1 1 Davis the issue of odor and toxicity of 1 2 chlorinated hydrocarbons? 1 3 A: I don't recall the discussion. 1 4 Q: Do you have a general recollection 1 5 of that issue with regard to Pydraul 312? 1 6 A: It was not a specific, unique 1 7 issue in terms of mining applications any 1 8 more than die casting or some other 1 9 application. The -- as indicated here, 2 0 there were many difficulties in introducing 2 1 a product of this type, or of any type to 2 2 the mines, and it took several years. But 2 3 the product had been evaluated by our 2 4 medical department for the intended use 2 5 when these memos were written. Any unusual Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314)241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040281 78 1 toxicity for that application, as I 2 indicated, would have been addressed in due 3 course. But the mining people that I 4 talked to did not raise this as a new 5 issue . 6 Q: What did you mean by any unusual 7 toxicity issues would be resolved in due 8 course? 9 A: The only thing that would be 1 0 unique or unusual is the fact that the 1 1 mines are confined and you have, perhaps, 1 2 more limited air ventillation than you 1 3 would have in, say, a die casting plant, so 14 if you had to minimize leakage in the 1 5 machine to keep the air concentration down, 1 6 that's the kind of thing a field trial 1 7 would help you determine. 1 8 Q: During your work at Monsanto 1 9 between '63 and '68 was there any 2 0 discussion of the persistence of PCBs in 2 1 the environment? 22 . A: Not to my knowledge. 2 3 Q: Do you recall any discussion 2 4 concerning finding PCBs in the effluent 2 5 from coal mines in England? Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040282 79 1 No, ma'am. 2 Q ; The next exhibit I will mark as a 3 new exhibit today is Exhibit 623, which 4 I'll describe for the record as a 5 multi-page document entitled "Synthetic 6 Fluids And Their Applications by C.L. 7 Early, Monsanto Company," Bate's range 8 TW2 - 2004555 through 4614. And there may be 9 two documents here, which is what I'm 1 0 trying to find, the second of which may 1 1 start at TW2 - 2 0 0 4 5 9 5 with the title 1 2 "Industrial and AS TM Fluid Fire Test 13 Programs," author, C.L. Early and R.E. 1 4 Hatton. It's stamped "Appendix." Mr. 1 5 Early, do you recognize Exhibit 623, 1 6 including its constituent parts? 1 7 A: I wrote it, but I've completely 1 8 forgotten it. I don't recall having 1 9 written it. 2 0 Q: What is ASTM? 2 1 A: American Society for Testing 2 2 Materials . 2 3 Q: And do you recall preparing any 2 4 publications on behalf of Monsanto to be 2 5 either presented to or in conformance with Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402I 80 1 ASTM standards? 2 A: Please repeat that. 3 Q: Sure. Do you recall preparing any 4 papers for an annual meeting of the 5 American Society of Lubrication Engineers? 6 MR. MAYERs That's a different 7 question. 8 A: That's different. 9 MS. GRADY: It is a different 1 0 question. 1 1 A: Very vaguely, I recall giving a 1 2 paper at an ASLE meeting on functional 1 3 fluids. It's very vague. 1 4 Q: Who were the members of the 1 5 American society of Lubrication Engineers? 1 6 A: Thousands of members involved with 1 7 industrial lubrication, steel mills, 1 8 aluminum companies, automotive companies, 19 chemical companies. A broad spectrum of 2 0 industrial American had representation in 2 1 this -- it wasn't a trade group as much as 2 2 it was a technical society. 2 3 Q: Do you recall ever attending 2 4 meetings of a group called the American 2 5 Turbine Users Association? Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402I 81 1 A: NNoo,, mmaa''aamm.. 2 Q: This other document that I pointed 3 out that's stamped "Appendix," which I've 4 now 5 MR. MAYER: It'S TW2-2004595. 6 MS. GRADY: Did you author a paper 7 called "Industrial and ASTM Fluid Fire Test 8 Programs," Mr. Early? 9 A: Yes. Roger Hatton and I 1 0 co-authored the paper. 1 1 Q: And do you recall a national ASTM 1 2 symposium on test methods where you 1 3 presented a paper? 1 4 A: Yes, I recall that. 1 5 Q: Were you representing Monsanto in 1 6 the presentation of the paper at the ASTM 1 7 symposium? 1 8 A: Yes, ma'am. 1 9 Q: What was the purpose, as you 2 0 understood it, of Monsanto presenting a 2 1 technical paper at an ASTM symposium? 2 2 A: Well, any such meetings with ASTM 2 3 was educational in nature, to keep abreast 2 4 of technologies and the like in your 2 5 field. This specific instance, fire Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004028 8 2____________________________________________________ ________________________________ ___________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 testing, was an art, not a science, not 2 everyone would agree on how to conduct fire 3 tests, so Roger and I accumulated 4 information on many different methods that 5 people had used or proposed and merely 6 summarized them and told people what they 7 were about. Strictly an educational type 8 of thing. 9 Qs Who was Roger Hatton? 1 0 A: He was a project manager in 1 1 commercial development at Monsanto. 1 2 Qs And were you and he on the same 1 3 level as project managers? 1 4 A: Essentially. 1 5 Qs What do you mean, essentially? 1 6 As I'm not sure I had quite as high a 1 7 grade level as he did. 1 8 Qs Is a grade level -- does that 1 9 determine the compensation at Monsanto? 2 0 As To a degree, it helps. 2 1 Qs Do you recall a product called 2 2 Pydraul 135? 2 3 As Vaguely, yes. 2 4 Qs What do you recall about it? 2 5 As It was a lower temperature version Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402I 8_3_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 o f Pydrau1 3 12. 2 Qs What do you mean by lower 3 temperature version? 4 As It could be used in areas where 5 the temperature dropped. These fluids and 6 oils get thicker at low temperatures and 7 thinner at high temperatures, Pydraul 312 8 was limited in low temperature properties 9 for some applications, for example, in 1 0 Canada, so we would provide a lower cost 11 viscosity grade. 12 Q: And were you responsible for 1 3 developing Pydraul 135? 14 A: Yes, I believe I was. 1 5 Qs Do you remember how you got the 1 6 idea for lowering the temperature 1 7 acceptability of Pydraul 312? 1 8 As I recall a steel company in 1 9 Canada, and I can't recall their name, was 2 0 one of the first companies who rejected 2 1 Pydraul - 3 12 and said we have to have lower 2 2 temperature properties in this area. But 2 3 there were others I don't recall. 2 4 Qs What did you do to Pydraul - 3 12 to 2 5 lower the temperature range? Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004026 8_4_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 As This gets into compositional 2 information. Is that confidential? 3 MR. MAYER; You raise a good 4 point, sir. If you can explain your answer 5 without divulging any Monsanto trade 6 secrets or proprietary information, you may 7 do so. 8 MS. GRADY: Even if you can't, 9 though, we have a protective order in this 1 0 case. 1 1 MR. MAYER: I'll accept your 1 2 statement to that effect. I'm not aware of 1 3 it. But go ahead. 1 4 A: There are several things that 1 5 might have been done, I can't recall 1 6 precisely. We used a very heavy oil in 1 7 Pydraul - 3 12 to help get the cost down, 1 8 along with Aroclors, and we could have 1 9 backed off somewhat on that heavy oil, 2 0 which would have reduced the viscosity and 2 1 we could have added chlorinated benzenes 2 2 instead of chlorinated biphenyls. I think 2 3 we did both of those things. 2 4 Q: Was Pydraul 135 a lower cost 2 5 version, in addition to having different Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402I 8_5_________________________________ ____ ___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 temperature specs? 2 As I don't think so. Similar. I 3 don't recall exactly. I'm sorry, now, I 4 may not have answered that. It was a lower 5 cost fluid than the straight synthetics. 6 It was a similarly priced fluid to the low 7 cost line, of which Pydraul- 3 12 was the 8 first. 9 Qs Okay. And you're making a 1 0 distinction between the synthetic line and 1 1 the reformulated Pydraul line. What is the 1 2 chemical difference between the two that 1 3 caused the price to go down? 1 4 A: The inclusion of a special heavy 1 5 mineral oil in the low cost line that was 1 6 not in the original Pydrauls. 1 7 Q: Let me show you what we'll mark 1 8 today as Exhibit 624, which, for the 1 9 record, contains two documents. The first 2 0 is Bates numbered Tran 056741, the second 2 1 is Tran 056746 through 47. The first page 2 2 of Exhibit 62 4 purports to be a memorandum 2 3 from Elmer P. Wheeler to T. Denton-Roberts, 2 4 with a list of cc's, including Mr. Early. 2 5 The title of the memorandum is "Toxicity of Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402I 8_6__ _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 Pydrau1 - 135 , Steel Company of Wales. Your 2 memo to R. Davis 7/19/66." The second 3 document that makes up Exhibit 62 4 is on 4 Monsanto Company stationery and is headed 5 "Pydraul-135 Toxicity and Safe Handling 6 Information," and it is dated on the last 7 page August 2, 1 9 6 6 and includes R. Emmet 8 Kelly's name. And I'd ask you to take a 9 look at Exhibit 62 4, Mr. Early, and tell me 1 0 if you've seen either or both of its 1 1 constituent parts prior to today? 1 2 A: I've read the first one. Do you 1 3 want me to read the second one? 1 4 Q: Yes. I'm basically interested in 1 5 the form of the second one. 1 6 A: All right, I've scanned the second 1 7 one . 1 8 Q: Have you seen Exhibit 624 prior to 1 9 today? 2 0 MR. MAYER: Other than with 2 1 respect to documents which may or may not 2 2 have been shown to you by counsel, sir, you 2 3 may re spond. 2 4 A: I do not recall seeing these 2 5 document s. Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402 87 1 MS. GRADY: Were you shown the 2 first page of 6 2 4 by counsel in preparation 3 for this deposition? 4 MR. MAYER: You may not answer 5 that question, sir, under the terms of 6 attorney work product projection. 7 MS. GRADY: You're instructing him 8 not to answer? 9 MR. MAYER: I am instructing him 1 0 not to answer. 1 1 MS. GRADY: And you're accepting 12 that instruction, sir? 1 3 A: Certainly. 14 Q: What about the next two pages, 1 5 were you shown that in preparation for your 1 6 deposition? 1 7 MR. MAYER: Same instruction, 1 8 sir. 1 9 A: I don't recall seeing this 2 0 document. 2 1 MS. GRADY: Do you recall if there 2 2 were toxicity concerns about Pydraul-135 2 3 expressed by Steel Company of Wales? 2 4 MR. MAYER: Objection, the 2 5 question calls for speculation. It also Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402J 8 8__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ ______________________ 1 lacks foundation. Go ahead. 2 A: I do not recall specifically the 3 Steel Company of Wales asking for this kind 4 of information. 5 Qs Do you recall advising customers 6 or potential customers of Pydrauls that the 7 fluid should be used in systems as free 8 from leaks as possible? 9 A: As a matter of good housekeeping, 1 0 yes. 1 1 Q: Why was that? 12 A: It's good business to have a good 1 3 clean house. It had a slight odor, and - 14 I don't recall making an issue of this, but 15 I'm sure we recommended good housekeeping 1 6 procedures and avoid leaks. 1 7 Q: And how are you using the term 1 8 good housekeeping? 1 9 A: Clean it up if you spill it. If a 2 0 hydraulic line breaks and sprays it on the 2 1 machine, clean it up so the employee isn't 2 2 exposed to the material on the machine. 2 3 Q: Did you provide -- when I say you, 2 4 I mean you, Mr. Early, did you provide any 2 5 advice to customers or potential customers Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402J 8_9_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 on cleanup techniques? 2 A: Not specific instructions. 3 Q: Did you provide general 4 instructions? 5 A: Just as I've described. 6 Q: And what was that? 7 As Keep your place clean, wipe up 8 spills. 9 Qs Any instructions that you recall 1 0 concerning how to dispose of spilled 1 1 materials? 1 2 As No, I don't recall any. 13 Qs Do you recognize the form of the 1 4 second two pages of Exhibit 624? 1 5 As Yes. It's an internal memo, yes. 1 6 Qs Was a document that looked like 1 7 this produced for each of the products that 1 8 you worked on that eventually was sold to 1 9 customers? 2 0 As A toxicity and safe handling 2 1 memorandum from the medical department 2 2 would be given to me for use in my 2 3 technical bulletins, and I would use it. 2 4 This one is specific to this Steel Company 2 5 of Wales, I think, and we would not have a Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402S 9 0____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ __________ __________________ 1 specific letter for each customer 2 application. 3 Q: So, in your work in product 4 development you received directly from the 5 medical department some sort of information 6 concerning toxicity and safe handling? 7 A: Yes. 8 Q: Was that information provided to 9 you on a form? 1 0 A: I don't think so. I think it was 1 1 handled by memo. 1 2 Q: And you mentioned a technical 1 3 bulletin, what did you mean by technical 1 4 bulle tin? 1 5 A: When I took a new product to the 1 6 market I had to tell the customer something 1 7 about it, and I would describe the product 1 8 and its properties in a technical bulletin; 1 9 viscosity, fire-resistant tests we had run, 2 0 that type of thing. 2 1 Q : And am I correct that you would 2 2 use the toxicity and safe handling 2 3 information provided to you by the medical 2 4 department in your technical bulletins? 2 5 A: I did. I was required to and I Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040294 1 did. 2 Q: Was there a form in which the 3 toxicity bulletins were prepared? 4 A: They were not separate bulletins. 5 They were a page, or whatever was required, 6 within the technical bulletin, and they 7 were written out in this form. They 8 weren't numbers plugged into a form, if 9 that's what you mean. 1 0 (Recess) . 1 1 MS. GRADY: I'd like to mark our 1 2 next exhibit as Exhibit 625, which I will 1 3 describe for the record as a two page 1 4 document with Bates range TW2-2004920 1 5 through 4921. It purports to be a letter 1 6 from Mr. Early to Walter Woods at Texas 1 7 Eastern Gas Transmis sion C ompany, dated 1 8 July 19, 1 9 6 6. Mr. Early , please :read 1 9 Exhibit 6 2 5 s o that you can answer the 2 0 qu e s tion. i f you have seen it prior t o 2 1 today? 2 2 A: All right. I've read it. 2 3 Q: Have you seen Exhibit 6 2 5 prior to 2 4 today? 2 5 MR. MAYER: Other than with Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402< 9 2_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 respect to documents which may have been 2 shown or not shown to you by your attorney, 3 sir, you may respond. 4 A: I don't recall seeing it. 5 MS. GRADY: Was Exhibit 6 2 5 one of 6 the documents that was shown you in 7 preparation for your deposition, Mr. 8 Early? 9 MR. MAYER: I must instruct you 1 0 not to answer the question under the 1 1 protection of the attorney work product 1 2 doctrine. 1 3 MS. GRADY: And you will follow 1 4 your Counsel's instruction? 1 5 A: Yes, ma'am. 1 6 Q: Was Exhibit 625 one of the 1 7 documents that you mentioned earlier 1 8 refreshed your recollection about your 1 9 connection with MCS-153? 2 0 MR. MAYER: Objection, 2 1 mischaracterizes his testimony. 2 2 MS. GRADY: You may answer that 2 3 question. 2 4 MR. MAYER: I don't believe he 2 5 testified to that effect. Go ahead, sir. Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004025 9 3_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 As Please ask the question again. 2 MS. GRADY: Was Exhibit 6 2 5 one of 3 the documents that you were shown in 4 preparation for your deposition that 5 refreshed your recollection about your 6 connection with MCS-153? 7 MR. MAYER: Same objection. A 8 different question this time. And, again, 9 I'll assert the work product doctrine 1 0 protection, instruct you not to answer the 1 1 question, sir, as to any documents that 12 were shown or not shown to you with respect 1 3 to your preparation for the deposition. 1 4 MS. GRADY: And, counsel, are you 1 5 familiar with the law in California? 1 6 MR. MAYER: I absolutely am. 1 7 MS. GRADY: That I'm entitled to 1 8 all documents that refreshed Mr. Early's 1 9 recollection? 2 0 MR. MAYER: You normally would be, 2 1 counsel, if a request were made for those 2 2 in a depo notice and it didn't invade the 2 3 attorney work product doctrine. However, 2 4 we know that attorney/c1ient privilege and 2 5 work product doctrine are sacrosanct, and I Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402S 9_4________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 believe that the ilege and the doctrine 2 protect the identity of documents shown to 3 the witness during the course of depo 4 preparation, particularly where no 5 foundation has been laid that this document 6 actually did refresh the witness's 7 recollection as to any issue. 8 MS. GRADY: I just asked him that 9 and youinstructed him not to answer. How 1 0 do you propose that I lay a foundation 11 since, in fact, I am entitled under 12 California law to all documents that 1 3 refreshed Mr. Early's recollection of 1 4 events? 1 5 MR. MAYER: I think the way you do 1 6 it, counsel, is you ask him the first 1 7 question, you ask it without asking him 1 8 whether it was shown to him in preparation 1 9 for the deposition. 2 0 MS. GRADY: I did ask that. 2 1 MR. MAYER: What you did is you 2 2 mischaracterized his testimony. I think if 2 3 you ask him did this document refresh his 2 4 recollection as to anything, I can let him 2 5 answer that, but you assumed -- just a Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00402! 95 1 minute you assumed that this document 2 refreshed his recollection on 153, which he 3 never testified to. 4 MS. GRADY: This is a ridiculous 5 colloquy. We'll take this up with the 6 judge. So we may be coming back for this 7 deposition, unfortunately, Mr. Early. 8 MR. MAYER: I doubt it. 9 MS. GRADY: Is that your 1 0 signature, Mr. Early, on the second page of 1 1 Exhibit 625? 1 2 A: Yes, ma'am. 1 3 Q: And did you draft Exhibit 625? 1 4 A: I presume I did. I don't recall 1 5 drafting it, but I signed it. 1 6 Q: I'm sorry? 1 7 A: Because I signed it, I presume I 1 8 wrote it. 1 9 Q: Who is Walter Woods? 2 0 A: I do not remember Walter Woods. 2 1 Q: How was Pydraul- 13 5 lower in cost 2 2 compared to MCS-153? 2 3 A: I don't recall the exact numbers, 2 4 but, roughly, the 153 would be in the three 2 5 dollar a gallon range and the 135 in the Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004029 9 6________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 two dollar a gallon range. 2 Q: Who is Mr. Worley who is cc'd on 3 the second page of Exhibit 6 2 5 ? 4 A : I don't know. 5 Qs Who is Mr. Fletcher? 6 A: I don't recall. 7 Q: Do you recall anyone named Earl 8 Farmer? 9 A : No, ma'am. 1 0 Q: Do you recall anyone from Texas 1 1 Eastern visiting Monsanto? 1 2 A : No , ma' am. 1 3 Q: Down at the bottom of page 1 of 14 Exhibit 625 you state, "I believe it" - 1 5 I'm reading from the second sentence here, 1 6 Mr. Early. "I believe it would be 1 7 worthwhile to hold a meeting near one of 1 8 your pumping stations with various Texas 1 9 Eastern people present, as well as G.E. and 2 0 Monsanto representatives." Was such a 2 1 meeting ever held? 2 2 A: I'm looking for that. All right. 2 3 I do not recall. 2 4 Qs Did you meet with General Electric 2 5 at any time concerning MCS-153? Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040300 __ __________________ ______________________________________________________ U_ 1 A: I met with General Electric on two 2 or three occasions. I don't recall if it 3 was specific to Pydraul- 135 . 4 Q: Was it specific to MCS-153? 5 A: I'm sure it was not. 6 Q: And why are you sure of that? 7 A: Because I didn't have any 8 significant involvement with MCS-153. 9 Q: Does this exhibit refresh your 1 0 recollection in any way about anyone at 1 1 Texas Eastern who you ever discussed 1 2 lubricating fluids with? 1 3 A: As I testified earlier, my only 1 4 recollection of a visit to Texas Eastern 1 5 was at the invitation of Dale Smith, Texas 1 6 Eastern was his customer, to make them 1 7 aware that we were developing lower cost 1 8 fire-resistant fluids. Apparently, they 1 9 took us up on using some of these fluids, 2 0 from this memo. I do not recall that, that 2 1 follow-on activity. 2 2 Q: And do you recall, does this 2 3 Exhibit 625 refresh your recollection in 2 4 any way about anyone at Texas Eastern with 2 5 whom you had communications of any type? Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00403C 9_8_________________________ ______________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 As No. I don't recall any further 2 contact with Texas Eastern after that 3 meeting with Dale Smith. 4 Q: How many people were at the 5 meeting? 6 A: I do not remember. 7 Q: All right. The next exhibit I'll 8 mark is 6 2 6, which I will describe for the 9 record as containing two Bates numbers, one 1 0 of them is TW2-2006664 through 6665. It 1 1 purports to be a letter to Mr. W.M. 1 2 Stephens, S-t-e-p-h-e-n-s, from C.L. Early, 1 3 cc E.P. Farmer, dated November 2, 1966. I 1 4 ask you to read Exhibit 6 2 6, Mr. Early. 1 5 As Okay. 1 6 Qs Have you ever seen Exhibit 626 1 7 prior to t oday ? 1 8 MR. MAYERs Other than with 1 9 respect to documents which were shown or 2 0 may have been shown to you or not shown to 2 1 you by counsel, sir, you may respond. 2 2 As I do not recall this document or 2 3 writing this document. 2 4 MS. GRADYs You're shown as the 2 5 author, although I can't tell from this Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00403C 99 1 copy whether you signed this or not. Who 2 is BMF? And I'm looking at the secretary 3 designation down at the bottom of the 4 second page above the word "Enclosures". 5 A: Oh, boy. I don't recall her 6 name. She would have been one of the 7 secretaries. 8 Q: Did your secretaries have 9 authority to sign memorandums for you? 1 0 As Did our -1 1 Q: Did your secretary have authority 12 to sign letters or memoranda for you? 1 3 A: Not without -- generally, no. 1 4 Q: Who is W.M. Stephens? 1 5 A: I don't recollect the name. 1 6 Q: Does this letter refresh in any 1 7 way your recollection concerning any 1 8 communications you may have ever had with 1 9 Earl Farmer? 2 0 A : No, ma'am. 2 1 Q: Did you ever meet Earl Farmer? 2 2 A: I don't recall having met him. 2 3 Q: Was Pydraul- 13 5 ever sold as an 2 4 industrial lubricant? 2 5 A: Yes, I'm sure it was. Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00403C 1 Q: Who was it sold to? 10 0 2 As I'm reasonably sure it went to 3 some steel mill uses in Canada. I do not 4 recall any turbine oil applications. 5 Q: And the steel mill uses in Canada 6 that you recall were lubrication uses? 7 As Hydraulic fluid. 8 Qs Do you recall any lubrication uses 9 of Pydraul-135? 1 0 A s No . 1 1 Qs The next exhibit I'd like to show 1 2 you has been marked in a previous 1 3 deposition as Exhibit 378. Please read 1 4 Exhibit 3 7 8 , Mr. Early, and tell me if you 1 5 have seen it prior to today? 1 6 As I've read it. 1 7 Qs Have you seen Exhibit 3 7 8 prior to 1 8 today? 1 9 MR. MAYERs With the exception of 2 0 documents which were shown or not shown to 2 1 you by counsel, sir, you may answer. 2 2 As I do not recall this document. 2 3 MS. GRADYs Who is Walter Woods? 2 4 As I don't remember the person. 2 5 Qs Does this Exhibit 378 refreshyour Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00403 10 1 1 recollection in any way about any meeting 2 in Houston with representatives of Texas 3 Eastern? 4 A: I remember going to Houston and 5 meeting with Larry Bradford, our field 6 representative, in conjunction with a 7 technical association or trade association 8 meeting. I do not recall customer contacts 9 and meetings. 1 0 Qs You recall only going to Houston 1 1 once during your employment with Monsanto? 1 2 A: Oh, no, I went to Houston many 1 3 times. 1 4 Q: Is there some reason you're 1 5 associating this trade association trip to 1 6 Houston with possible contact with Texas 1 7 Eastern? 1 8 MR. MAYER: Objection, 1 9 mi scharacterizes his testimony. 2 0 A: I went to the trade association 2 1 meeting. I have no recollection of a 2 2 meeting with Texas Eastern. 2 3 MS. GRADY: Why did you pick out 2 4 the trade association meeting that you 2 5 recall discussions with Mr. Bradford when I Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00403C 10 2 1 asked you if you recalled meeting in 2 Houston with Texas Eastern? 3 As I happen to remember that because 4 one of us got sick, and we were -- I think 5 Larry was very sick and, therefore, I 6 remember that visit. But I don't remember 7 the discussions. 8 Q : And just to make it clear, because 9 I'm kind of confused at this point, do you 1 0 recall meeting with Texas Eastern at this 11 meeting? 1 2 A ; No, ma'am. 1 3 Q: Or on this trip? 1 4 A: No, ma'am. 1 5 Q: The next exhibit I'll mark as 1 6 Exhibit 6 2 7, and I will describe it for the 1 7 record as a two page document dated 1 8 February 24, 1967, to Mr. J.J. Ball, from 1 9 John R. Gilcrease, subject, "Effect of heat 2 0 on the viscosity of Pydraul-135," Bates 2 1 number range TW2 - 2 00 6 6 6 6 through 6 6 6 7. And 2 2 the question I will pose to you, Mr. Early, 2 3 is whether you have seen Exhibit 62 7 prior 2 4 to today? 2 5 A: I do not recall. Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040306 10 3 1 MR. MAYERs Well, again, subject 2 to the prior admonition, sir. 3 A: I do not recall seeing this 4 document. 5 MS. GRADY: Do you know who J.J. 6 Ball is? 7 A: I don't remember him, no. 8 Q: Do any of the names on that 9 stamped list up at the top of the first 1 0 page look familiar to you? 1 1 A: I'll be darned. No. 1 2 Q: Why did you say "I'll be darned"? 1 3 A: I was looking for Monsanto names, 1 4 and I realized this is Texas Eastern 1 5 letterhead. 1 6 Q : I see. 1 7 A: I was wondering why I didn't 1 8 recognize somebody. 1 9 MR. MAYER: He did it to fool you, 2 0 counsel. 2 1 MS. GRADY: What are light ends in 2 2 reference to Pydraul- 13 5? 2 3 A: I'll have to read this. I haven't 2 4 really read it. 2 5 Q: Before you read it, why don't you Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00403( 10 4_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ __________________ 1 tell me if you know what light ends are in 2 reference to Pydraul-135? 3 MR. MAYER: Well, objection. If 4 you're talking about what the author meant 5 by his use of the term, that calls for 6 speculation. If you have a general 7 understanding. 8 MS. GRADY: It certainly would 9 not, because I've made no reference to the 1 0 document and, quite properly under the 1 1 rules, I'm asking the question prior to the 1 2 time when I refreshed his recollection. So 1 3 the question is, what did light ends refer 14 to . 1 5 MR. MAYER: I'm just trying to 1 6 establish what we're talking about here. 1 7 Go ahead. 1 8 A: I can answer it, I don't need to 1 9 know what he says. 2 0 MR . MAYER: Sure. 2 1 A: Very few chemicals are pure, so if 2 2 you're looking at chlorinated biphenyls or 2 3 a phosphate ester or anything, you have a 2 4 range of molecular weights, and the 2 5 properties are based on the average, but Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00403I 10 5 1 the light ends refer to the lower molecular 2 weight components of the formulation, and 3 they tend to be more volatile, often 4 referred to as light ends. 5 MS. GRADY: Are you familiar with 6 Aroclor 1242? 7 A: Yes, ma'am. . 8 Q: Was Pydraul- 13 5 made with Aroclor 9 12 4 2 ? 1 0 A: I don't remember the exact 1 1 composition, but probably. 1 2 Q: And can you relate what you mean 1 3 by light ends with relationship to Aroclor 1 4 12 4 2 ? 1 5 A: Only in the same context that I 1 6 described, Aroclor 1242 is a chloronated 1 7 biphenyl containing 42 percent chlorine. 1 8 To get 42 percent chlorine you have to 1 9 chlorinate, I've forgotten, 4 carbon sites 2 0 on the biphenyl molecule. However, you 2 1 might have 5 chlorines on some and 3 on 2 2 another and even 2 on some. So the 2 2 3 chlorine material would be light ends. 2 4 Q: The next exhibit is Exhibit 628 2 5 that I'll mark here today, a two page Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00403C 10 6 1 exhibit. Bates range TW2-2003953 through 2 54. Exhibit 6 2 8 purports to be a letter to 3 Walter Woods, dated March 14, 1967 from 4 C.L. Early. Please read Exhibit 628, Mr. 5 Early, so that you can answer the question 6 of whether you have seen it prior to today? 7 A j Okay. 8 Q: Have you seen Exhibit 6 2 8 prior to 9 t oday ? 1 0 MR. MAY!... . Subject to my prior 1 1 admonition, sir, you may respond. 1 2 A: I don't recall the document. 1 3 MS. GRADY: Is that your signature 1 4 on the second page? 1 5 A: Yes, ma'am. 1 6 Q: Do you have any reason to believe 1 7 that you didn't draft Exhibit 628? 1 8 A : No, ma'am. 1 9 Q: Does Exhibit 628 refresh in any 2 0 way your recollection concerning the 2 1 identity of Walter Woods? 2 2 A: I still don't recall Walter Woods. 2 3 Q: Does 628 refresh your recollection 2 4 about any other employees of Texas Eastern 2 5 with whom you had any communications? Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00403' 10 7 1 As I have a blank on Texas Eastern 2 people. 3 Qs Could you read the second and 4 third sentences in the first paragraph of 5 Exhibit 628 where you state, "We concur 6 with Mr. Gilcrease's analysis," et cetera? 7 As The second and third sentences? 8 Qs Yes. The one also that starts 9 "Oxidation tests". 1 0 As I've read that. 1 1 Qs What did you mean by "this 1 2 chemical makeup," "Oxidation tests showed 1 3 that fluids of this chemical makeup do not 1 4 oxidize significantly"? 1 5 As These fluids were made up of 1 6 predominantly the Aroclors and heavy 1 7 thermally stressed mineral oil, 1 8 Pydraul-312, the basic product. And these 1 9 were quite stable to oxidation at elevated 2 0 temperatures. To get the viscosity down in 2 1 135, we had to add lower boiling 2 2 components. They wouldn't necessarily be 2 3 less thermally stable, they would still be 2 4 oxidation resistant, but they could 2 5 vaporize as opposed to oxidize. That is Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004031 10 8 1 what I meant. 2 Q: Did you receive any information 3 from Texas Eastern concerning the use that 4 they might put Pydraul - 135 to? 5 A: I don't recall anything of that 6 nature with Texas Eastern. 7 Q: Does paragraph 2 of Exhibit 628 8 refresh your recollection in any way 9 concerning any information provided by 1 0 Texas Eastern or anyone else concerning the 1 1 machinery setup in which Texas Eastern was 1 2 going -- might use Pydraul - 135? 1 3 As No, ma'am. 1 4 Q: Are you familiar with the term 1 5 liquid seal as it relates to compressors? 1 6 A: I've heard it, but I don't know 1 7 what it means. 1 8 Q : Have you ever had any 1 9 communications with anyone about how liquid 2 0 seals work in heavy machinery? 2 1 A: I don't recall any such. 2 2 Q: What was the highly chlorinated 2 3 component in Pydraul- 135? 2 4 A: Probably chlorinated benzene. 2 5 Q : Does this sentence in Exhibit 628 Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004031 10 9 1 on the second page in the first paragraph 2 that states, "In order to achieve good low 3 temperature pumping characteristics, it is 4 necessary to include in the formulation a 5 highly chlorinated, but fairly volatile, 6 component" refresh your recollection in any 7 way concerning the formulation of 8 Pydraul135 with respect to highly 9 chlorinated substances? 1 0 A: I'm reasonably sure it was 1 1 chlorinated benzene. I can't be -- I'm 1 2 not a hundred percent sure. 1 3 Q: Was there a policy or practice at 1 4 Monsanto between '63 and '68 concerning 1 5 what sort of support Monsanto was willing 1 6 to provide to a prospective customer for a 1 7 new product? 1 8 MR. MAYER: Objection, vague and 1 9 ambiguous as to support. Go ahead. 2 0 A: The question is, was there a 2 1 policy? 2 2 MS. GRADY: Or a practice as to 2 3 what kind of support you'd be willing to 2 4 provide to a prospective customer 2 5 concerning their evaluation of a new Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00403' 110 1 product . 2 MR. MAYER: Same objection. Go 3 ahead. 4 A: A project manager in my position 5 had a fairly wide degree of flexibility to 6 decide how much service to give. It could 7 vary. 8. Q: Do you remember communicating to 9 potential customers that you were willing 1 0 to provide them reasonable support in 1 1 evaluating a new product? 12 MR. MAYER: Objection, vague and 1 3 ambiguous and argumentative as to 1 4 reasonable support. Go ahead. 1 5 A: I routinely offered support to 1 6 customers . 1 7 MS. GRADY: What kind of support? 1 8 A: It varied widely, but in many 1 9 cases the use of these fluids would require 2 0 changing the seals, so I would say if 2 1 you'll absorb the cost to change the seals, 2 2 we'll give you the fluid for a field 2 3 trial. I would obtain samples routinely 2 4 and do the analytical work in our 2 5 laboratories to monitor the progress of the Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON0040314 111 1 fluid in service. These are typical kinds 2 of service. 3 Q: Do you recall providing any such 4 services to Texas Eastern? 5 A: No, ma'am. 6 Q: Does the last paragraph in Exhibit 7 628 refresh your recollection in any way 8 concerning any follow-up services that 9 might have been provided to Texas Eastern 1 0 concerning their evaluation of Pydraul-135? 1 1 A : No, ma'am. 1 2 Q: Does the name Ted Harrison mean 1 3 anything to you? 1 4 A : No, ma'am. 1 5 Q j Did you review any technical 1 6 literature concerning compressors, gas 1 7 compressors in relation to the call you 1 8 made with Dale Smith to Texas Eastern? 1 9 A: I don't recall any such review. 2 0 Qs Are you familiar with any 2 1 technical information concerning Cooper 2 2 Bessemer compressors? 2 3 A: I'm aware of them, but I don't 2 4 recall any specific technical information. 2 5 Q: The next exhibit I'd like to show Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004031 112 1 you we will mark as Exhibit 6 3 2, which I 2 will describe as a one page document 3 bearing Bates number Tran 057590, which 4 purports to be a memorandum from W.R. 5 Richard to R. Davis, on Monsanto memorandum 6 paper, dated May 20, 1968, and includes a 7 list of cc's, among which is C. Early. And 8 I'll ask you to read Exhibit 6 3 2 and tell 9 me if you've seen it prior to today? 1 0 A: I don't recall the document. 1 1 Q: Do you recall any inquiries by the 1 2 FDA during your employment with Monsanto 1 3 when you were working with industrial 1 4 lubricants concerning Aroclors or PCBs? 1 5 A : No, ma'am. 1 6 Q: Do you recall any discussions with 1 7 Monsanto employees concerning preventing or 1 8 minimizing losses of Aroclors to the 1 9 environment? 2 0 A: No, ma'am. 2 1 Q: Are you familiar with someone 2 2 named Mr. Papageorge? 2 3 A: Yes. 2 4 Q; Do you recall Mr. Papageorge's 2 5 position at Monsanto during your employment Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314)241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004031 1 between '63 and '68? 113 2 A : No, I don't. 3 Q: Did you have any occasion to work 4 with Mr. Papageorge when you returned to 5 Monsanto in 1970? 6 A: I was in meetings with him 7 pheriphera 11y, but not directly. 8 Q: You attended meetings that he also 9 attended, is that what you mean? 1 0 As Yes. 1 1 Q: I may have asked you this. If so, 1 2 I apologize. When you returned to Monsanto 1 3 in 1 9 7 0, did you ever have any connection 1 4 with PCB issues facing Monsanto? 1 5 A : No . 1 6 MR. MAYER: You're right, asked 1 7 and answered. 1 8 A: No, I did not. 1 9 MS. GRADY: The next exhibit I'll 2 0 show you is Exhibit 6 3 3. 6 3 3 it bears 2 1 Bates number Tran 086253. It purports to 2 2 be a memorandum from Richard Davis to W.R. 2 3 Richard, dated May 23, 1968. Subject, "FDA 2 4 Aroclor inquiry." There is a list of cc's, 2 5 which includes C. Early. I ask you to look Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004031 114____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ ;____________________________________ 1 at Exhibit 633, Mr. Early, and tell me if 2 you have seen it prior to today? 3 As I don't recall seeing this 4 do cument. 5 Q: Do you recall seeing a document 6 that included the same information in a 7 different form? 8 MR. MAYER: Subject to my prior 9 admonition, sir, you may respond. 1 0 A: I vaguely remember the name 1 1 Findett in connection with reclamation of 1 2 fluids for commercial reasons or 1 3 environmental, I don't know. 1 4 MS. GRADY: Did you have any 1 5 involvement in any programs to reduce or 1 6 minimize plant effluent from Monsanto's 1 7 customers? 1 8 A : No . 1 9 Q: Do you recall any discussions 2 0 about PCBs in the environment just prior to 2 1 your leaving Monsanto in 1968? 2 2 A: The only recollection I have, and 2 3 it's vague and general, had to do with a 2 4 report of PCBs in birds in Norway. I don't 2 5 recall reading anything about it. I'm Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00403' 1 aware some such report was, you know -- 115 2 Q: Did you have any discussions with 3 Monsanto employees during this period '63 4 to '68 that were working on projects that 5 involved PCBs? 6 MR. MAYER*. Can you that read 7 back? 8 MS. GRADY: I'll reformulate. Did 9 you have any discussions with Monsanto 1 0 employees during your employment there 1 1 between 1963 and 1968 about their 1 2 involvement with PCB issues with relation 1 3 to the environment? 1 4 A: I don't recall any such 1 5 involvement, no. 1 6 Q: Do the names Jensen and Vidmark as 1 7 researchers mean anything to you? 1 8 A : No, ma'am. 1 9 Q: Does research done in Sweden 2 0 concerning the presence of PCBs in its 2 1 environment in 1 9 6 6 mean anything to you or 2 2 refresh your recollection in any way? 2 3 A: No. I don't recollect. As I 2 4 said, I vaguely remember a report, it may 2 5 have been Sweden instead of Norway, a Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON004031 116__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 report on finding traces of PCB in birds. 2 I don't recall seeing any research reports 3 or documentation. 4 Q: Did you ever come to hold the 5 belief that Aroclors were not 6 biodegra da b1e ? 7 MR. MAYER: Objection, the 8 question lacks foundation. 9 A: Do I answer? 1 0 MR. MAYER: Yes, you do. Did you 1 1 ever hold such a belief? 1 2 A: Certainly, in recent years. But 1 3 in that time frame of '63 to '68, I don't 1 4 recall if it was on my mind or not. 1 5 MS. GRADY: The next exhibit I 1 6 want to show you is Exhibit 6 3 4, and which 1 7 I'll describe for the record as a 1 8 multi-page document bearing Bates range 1 9 Tran 063374 through 79, which purports to 2 0 be a memorandum on Monsanto letterhead from 2 1 Michael F. Baber to a long list of people, 2 2 one of which is C.L. Early. Subject: 2 3 Toxicity of halogenated polyphenyls. Dated 2 4 April 8, 1971. I ask you to take a look at 2 5 this, not necessarily reading it Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00403 117 1 word-for-word, unless you want to, and tell 2 me if you have seen Exhibit 6 3 4 prior to 3 today? 4 A: I don't remember seeing the 5 document. 6 Q: Can I direct your attention to the 7 second page of the document where there is 8 a paragraph called "Highly chlorinated 9 biphenyls," and ask you to read that. 1 0 A: All right, I've read it. 1 1 Q: Does that refresh your 1 2 recollection in any way concerning any 1 3 involvement you had with PCB issues upon 1 4 your return to Monsanto in 1970? 1 5 A : No . And it doesn't change the 1 6 fact that I was not involved in chlorinated 1 7 biphenyls . 1 8 Q: Are you finished with your answer? 1 9 A : Yes. 2 0 Qs The next exhibit I'd like to show 2 1 you was marked in the Frederick deposition 2 2 as Exhibit 6. It was marked, apparently, 2 3 on 1/9/92. I ask you to look at Exhibit 6 2 4 and tell me if you've seen it prior to 2 5 today? Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 118 1 A: I do not recall the document. 2 Q: Do you recall any American Society 3 of Lubrication Engineers meeting in 4 Chicago? 5 A: I don't recall any specific 6 meeting. 7 Q: Do you recall hearing any papers 8 presented at any American Society of 9 Lubrication Engineers meeting about 1 0 Turbinol? 1 1 A : No . 1 2 Qs Do you recall at any such meeting 1 3 hearing any papers presented about Monsanto 14 fire-resistant synthetic fluids? 1 5 A: Yes, I'm sure there were meetings 1 6 of that type. 1 7 Q; What about papers concerning 1 8 Monsanto fire-resistant synthetic fluids 1 9 used in gascompressors? 2 0 A: I don't remember meetings of that 2 1 specific subject, or presentations. 2 2 Q: You mentioned earlier that natural 2 3 gas is a hydrocarbon, is that right? 2 4 A s Yes, ma'am. 2 5 Q: And you have a bachelor degree in Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00403: 119 1 chemistry, is that right? 2 A : Yes. 3 Qs And your work at Monsanto required 4 you to apply your knowledge of chemistry, 5 is that right? 6 As Somewhat. 7 Qs What would you expect to be the 8 chemical reaction between two 9 hydrocarbons ? 1 0 MR. MAYER: Objection, the 1 1 question poses an incomplete hypothetical. 1 2 A: It depends onmany conditions, 1 3 temperature and catalyst and everything 1 4 else. But no reaction at ordinary 1 5 t emp e r a t u r e s . 1 6 Q: And whataboutat elevated 1 7 temperatures? 1 8 MR. MAYER: Same objection, 1 9 incomplete hypothetical. 2 0 A: In the refining process there is a 2 1 whole host of reactions that occur. I 2 2 can't begin to summarize the -- they can 2 3 polymerize small molecules and make big 2 4 ones, they can break big ones up and make 2 5 smaller ones, all different kinds of things Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00403: 12 0_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 can be done. But at ordinary room 2 temperatures, pretty non-reactive. 3 Q: Where were Aroclors made during 4 1963 and '68? 5 A: Anniston, Alabama, I believe, was 6 the primary site. They may have been made 7 in the Queeny Plant in St. Louis. 8 Q: What about the Krummrich Plant? 9 A: They may have been made there, I'm 1 0 not sure. 1 1 Q: Are you familiar with a product 1 2 called Stauffer, S-t-a-u-f-f-e-r, Fyrquel, 1 3 F-y-r-q-u-e-1? 14 A : No. 1 5 Q: Did you play any role in 1 6 determining the text of labels that would 1 7 be placed on products during your 1 8 employment at Monsanto between '63 and '68? 1 9 A: Not the text, no. 2 0 Q: Anything about labels? 2 1 A: Not really. 2 2 Q: Is there some reason you're 2 3 qualifying your answer in that way? 2 4 As Well, in a new product you had to 2 5 have a new label, so I can't swear that I Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00403; 12 1 1 didn't have discussions with somebody about 2 labeling a new Pydraul-135 or 312, but it 3 wasn't my responsibility to develop labels. 4 Qs And you recall no such discussions 5 at this time, is that correct? 6 A: No, I don't, really. 7 Q: Was Pydraul-135 developed in 8 response to a customer request or inquiry? 9 A: My best recollection is that that 1 0 resulted from a visit to a steel company in 1 1 Canada who wanted a better low temperature 1 2 version of Pydraul- 3 12. 1 3 MS. GRADY: That's all the 14 questions I have at this time. 1 5 MR. MAYER: No questions. 1 6 (Discussion off the record). 1 7 MS. GRADY: My understanding is 1 8 that the standard stipulation is that the 1 9 transcript will be sent to the witness, the 2 0 witness will have thirty days to review the 2 1 transcript and make any corrections as 2 2 appropriate and to sign it. If the 2 3 transcript is not -- and return the 2 4 transcript. If the transcript is not 2 5 returned, plaintiffs can use the transcript Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00403: 12 2_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 1 as if it was signed, even if Mr. Early has 2 not returned it as signed. That was kind 3 of inartfully stated, but, in essence, 4 you've got thirty days to sign, if you 5 don't sign within thirty days we can use it 6 like you did sign it. 7 MR. MAYER: That was a much better 8 explanation. So stipulated. 9 MS. GRADY: Thank you. 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00403; 12 3 1 COMES NOW THE WITNESS, CURTIS LA 2 VERNE EARLY, and having read the foregoing 3 transcript of the deposition taken on the 4 20th day of August, 1992, acknowledges by 5 signature hereto that it is a true and 6 accurate transcript of the testimony given 7 on the date hereinabove mentioned. 8 9 10 11 12 CURTIS LA VERNE EARLY 13 14 Subscribed and sworn to me before this 1 5 _ _ _ _ day of __________ , 1 9 9 2. 1 6 My Commission expires: ______ 17 18 19 20 2 1 Notary Public 22 23 24 2 5 rg Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00403: 12 4 1 State of Missouri 2 SS . 3 City of St. Louis 4 I, Ronald A. Gore, a Notary Public 5 in and for the State of Missouri, duly 6 commissioned, qualified and authorized to 7 administer oaths and to certify to 8 depositions, do hereby certify that 9 pursuant to Notice in the civil cause now 1 0 pending and undetermined in the Superior 1 1 Court for the State of California, for the 1 2 County of Los Angeles, to be used in the 1 3 trial of said cause in said court, I was 1 4 attended at the offices of Bryan Cave, One 1 5 Metropolitan Square, in the City of St. 1 6 Louis, State of Missouri, by the aforesaid 1 7 witness; and by the aforesaid attorneys; on 1 8 the 20th day of August, 1992. 1 9 The said witness, being of sound 2 0 mind and being by me first carefully 2 1 examined and duly cautioned and sworn to 22 testify the truth, the whole truth, and 2 3 nothing but the truth in the case 2 4 aforesaid, thereupon testified as is shown 2 5 in the foregoing transcript, said testimony Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00403 1 being by me reported in shorthand and 12 5 2 caused to be transcribed into typewriting, 3 and that the foregoing pages correctly set 4 forth the testimony of the aforementioned 5 witness, together with the questions 6 propounded by counsel and remarks and 7 objections of counseLthereto, and is in 8 all respects a full, true, correct and 9 complete transcript of the questions 1 0 propounded to and the answers given by said 1 1 witness; that signature of the deponent was 1 2 not waived by agreement of counsel. 1 3 I further certify that I am not of 1 4 counsel or attorney for either of the 1 5 parties to said suit, not related to nor 1 6 interested in any of the parties or their 1 7 attorneys. 1 8 Witness my hand and notarial seal 19 at St. Louis, Missouri, this / /y 20 _ _ _ _, 1 9 9 2. day of 2 1 My Commission expires May 22, 1994. _2 2 ^3^^ 2 3 Notary Public in and for the 2 4 State of Missouri 25 Gore Reporting Co., Inc. St. Louis, Mo. (314) 241-6750 (800) 878-6750 HARTOLDMON00403;