Document 15MendK2yeKB2rQVv45xMydBd

FILE NAME: Owens Illinois (OWILL) DATE: 0000 DOC#: OWILL083 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Legal - Testimony of Edward Ames  1 2 EDWARD AMES, 3 having been previously ouly sworn to .calx die truth, m o wnoxe 4 cruth ana nothing but the crucu, was examined ana 5 testified as Hollows, to wit: 6 EXAMIJATICll i n i . CiU'iLwOi. 7 Q. Hr. Ames, my nawie is Ken Cari-on, anu i wxxl oe CC*K1i1vj 8 your deposition. 9 A. Hr. hen Carlson? 10 Q. Mr. Ken Carlson, yes. Tuia ueposiciou is bein<j tuivcil 11 pursuant to subpoenaes aiiu notice fiiwd in the various 12 cases in both state anc FeueCui Court in uortnern 13 California, the notices were maoe exhibits in the 14 depositions or Glosser taken earlier this week on October 15 5, 1981. As you have stateo Ar. A.tec, your exposition na 16 been taken on numerous occasions oerore, anu 1 mat 17 you nave a thorough unoerstnuing or the process of a 18 aeposition, that is correct? 19 A. (Wooding) That is correct. 20 Q. Gkay. Where oo you presently resiue ;ir. Ames? 21 MR. BOUDOHNO: 3eiore we go any further, 1 wouxo 22 like the recoro to reflect that 1 nave ciiscussea with hr. 23 Ken Carlson the possibility of a stipulation offering tnac 24 either your prior aeposition in the Sc. Jacgue case in Los 25 Angeles, or your prior deposition in the Massachusetts- 26 case-- Federal District Court of -lassachusettes-- o e agroeu 27 upon as your testimony or stipulate chat we simply not 28 taice your deposition today anu we woula agree to use one JillG THOMAS -4-41-S ) 2S4- 3760 i 1 or both or possibly all or your prior depositions. ,,r. .le*, 2 Carlson has not been agree&uie to this stimulation aiu I ; 3 want the record to reflect that. Thank you. | 4 till. CARLSOH: I oelieve I asked you where you 5 presently reside, Hr. Ames? 6 A. I reside at 4315 Worth Moore Hoad, in Ottowa Hills, Post j 7 Office address is Toledo, Ohio. Zip is 43615. 8 Q. What's your date or birth? 9 A. 6/6/06. 10 Q. Could you give me a brief synopsis ot your educational 11 background, Hr. Ames? 12 A. I am a graduate of the Univer&icy or Chicago, Pn.b. 1926, 13 and or Harvard University, Master's Degree 1928. I also 14 have two Honorary Doctors Degress, one from Salera 15 University in Salera, West Virginia, -no the other an 16 L.L.D. from the University of Toieuo. 17 0. After you finished your schooling at Harvard, in 1928, 18 briefly trace your employment career from 1929 through 'l9 1939? 20 A. '29 through '39? 21 Q. Yes, sir. 22 A. Got out of Harvard in 27, ana From '27 to '29 I was an 23 instructor at Ohio Wescley University in Delaware, Ohio, 24 and from 1930 until 1935, I was on the staff of tne TOLEDO * 25 MORNING TIMES, TOLEDO TIMES. I was reporter, editorial 26 writer, feature writer, nignt suitor and so fortn. During 27 that same period, I moonlighted pare time as a newscaster 28 for radio station WSPD nere to Toieuo. In 1935, I went to JAUICE Y . THOMAS (415) 254-3760 10 1 the University or Toieuo as associate professor, was there 2 until 1934, when I went to cue University or Toieuo, wa^ 3 there until 1938, when I lure to oecome the first airevtorj 4 of the Hospital Service Association or Toieuo, Known .u 5 the Blue Cross Plan in uicJC parts, .no rounueu a:u 6 manager the Blue CrossPlan inToxouo front 193 6 to ii)**u, j 7 cnat takes me up oeyonu ywur *39. 8 Q. Than* you* Anu then starring in 1940, wi<u was your **_-.*i_ j 9 employer? I | 10 A. Owens Corning FiueryiasCorporation. 11 Q. Okay. What ws your position when ^ou starteu witn o-wens ' t 12 Corning Fiberglas? 13 A. The first assignment that I was when I started w u n i.-wen- 14 Corning Fiueryias was manager or tie tiberyias e x m o i t s at 15 the tlew Yor.< W o r i u 's Fair. 16 Q. Was that in 1940? ( 17 A. '40. | 18 Q . Okay. After you finisueu your wssiya/aent as tne manager 19 of that exhibit, what joo uiu you nuio? 20 A. I returned to Toieuo anu oecaiue assistant to tne 21 presiaent. 22 Q. Ano who was the presiuent of Owens Corning at tne time? 23 A. Harold Boescnonstein. 24 Q. B-o-e-s-c-h-e-n-s-t-e-i-n? 25 A. Correct. 26 Q. How long did you serve as assistant to the presiuent? 27 A. I served, l e t ' 3 see -- I served until I left Owens Corning 28 in 1953. But I server in other capacities also. J Ail IC C Y . THOiiAC (415) 254-3760 11 1 U. Could you enumerate wnich of those capacities-- 2 A. I was puolic relations manager ana chen oecame p u m i c 3 relations director, ana I nave forgotten which years were |i 4 which* So that v/nen I icic, I was public relations j 5 director of Owens Corning. 6 Q. And you left, as you statue, m 1952? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. After 1953, could you give me a oriel synopsis or the jobs 9 that you had held until you retirea? 10 A. Yes. When I left Owens Corning I went to Calumet ana 11 Hecla Inc, located in Chicago, as circctor or puolic 12 relations, ana then I came ouck to to Toleoo in iu54, ana 13 became public relations uirector or uwens Illinois Giu^s 14 Company as it was known then. 15 Q. Okay. Dia you regain wii-n Owaio Illinois Glass Cwuipuuy 16 until you retireu? 17 A. I aia. 18 Q. Okay. Ana you retireu in approximately 1971, is that 19 correct? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. Do you know, Mr. Ames, when Owens Corning Fiberglas 22 Corporation was incorporated? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. When was that? 25 A. It was, as I recall, in either late October or early 26 November, 1938. 27 Q. Okay. What was the origin of Owens Corning Fiberglas? 28 A. Owens Corning Fiberglas hau two parent companies, on cne JA N ICE Y . TUOriAS (415) 254-3760 12 1 one nanu Corning Glaus v.'ur.-; iooaceu in corning, .eu Voeu, 2 ano on the other Owens Illinois Gl-*su Company jj it wt;. ; 3 known then, its general o n i c e i,* Toieuo. During ewe 4 hiiciule 30s, experimental u o u .j oonoucteu oy i/oiu 5 Corniny an Owens Illinois, in uhe ormation iiu i'fucejji.u 6 of 9 lass anu fioerrorm riiumencu, clivers as cuey ..etc 7 oalieu, not slivers Uuc j u v a c , ,,au jo you no t:ic wuui t for.a of glass siuers juu y vu uuo enc l a Iio torio, nu i 9 guess I oin yet getting o n ewe suujeoc nero. | ! 10 Q. Vieil, unat's fine. You arc c a n y jnsc enumerating tor ,.lCj 11 the origin or now these Companies tutneu into Owens ! 12 Corning Fioergias eventually. I 13 nf(. OUa IL Il IvO.v i wcuiu . cteiate it. ..r 14 Carlson, if you wouiu u -k, a question so unac che acoro j 15 reaus (question anu answer, not commentary cesti.aoi'.y. I 16 .*2ft. tiu\LwOt^ i .r . /Vi.ius, u c s i o a l i y you c.n yo I 17 ahead. 1 again wouiu lito you to f i n i s h , i f you can, wow 18 the o r ig in of cnose tuo companies you ju s t mentioi.eu 19 consumateti in t ormation of the Owens Com in g F i o e i g i a s . 20 A. Owens Corning was calic the luouious infant of tie gius* 21 muustry ano stanca in otuer to uevoiop application for 22 glass in rioer form anu promote cneir couuuerciai 23 application. 24 t-.n. OLJOOinlO; ViiuiiK you, . ; t . nmes. 25 Mil. CAftLSOll: Diu U-roia hoescnenscein, tnac you 26 previously mentioneu, ^rcsiuent of tlie corporation wncu 27 you or shortly after you juintu it, w o c k for Owens 28 Illinois Glass Company before no worked for Owens Corning JAU ICC Y. TUOilAS (415) 254-3760 "i 46 1 rill. CARLSON: So basically you were aware or at 2 least the Lanza report maoe some connection regarding lung j 3 conditions trout asbestos exposure. I 4 A. Yes. j j 5 Q. Okay. Were you aware of any uifference between exposures 6 to individuals within a plant environment versus any otner 7 environment as to the potential health effects frum 8 exposure to asoestos? 9 rill. liONDQWNO: Uu jaction. 10 THE WITNESS: No. 11 HU. UONbOUNO: iy objection for the saxe of tne 12 recoru is that ic calls for expert opinion on the part of 13 the witness. Up foundation. 14 HR. CALLAHAN: This may oe a good place to 15 break. 16 (Recess.) 17 MR. CARLSON: Mr. Ames, when you were dealing 18 with Cal Bartley, were you not in fact dealing with a 19 population of people known as insulators? 20 MR. CALLAHAN: If you know? 21 THE WITNESS: Was I in fact dealing wich wnat? 22 HR. CARLSON: A population of workmen known as 23 inslators? 24 A. Wnen the members of the Asbestos Workers Union were c a n e d 25 insulators? He was the general counsel of the 26 Asbestos Workers Union, does tnat answer your question? 27 Q. Yes. Isn't it true rir. Ames, that you did not oraw any 28 distinction between one individual or another individual JA N IC E Y . THOMAS (415) 254-3760 49 1 in differing work places as to cneir wUsceptluiAACy to get 2 asoestosis? j 3 MR. BONDONMO: uujcction, misstate* ceuciuor.y f 4 vague and amoiguous, calls for expertise on the ^art or ! 5 the Witness which ne cestitieu ne uiun'c have A^ertiac J 6 in industrial hygiene ano medicine. 7 Ml<. JUBILIERER: And it is argumentative. ! 8 THE WITNESS: The answer is no. If I unuerstanu 9 your question. 10 HR. CARLSON: I almost uon't understand wnat you 11 are referring to on tnat. 12 HR. CALLAHAN: Diu you make a distinction-- was 13 there a distinction-- was the operative word-- 14 HR. CARLSON: Ano my last exhibic, I am going toj ! 15 show you, wo will mark as Plaintiff's Exnioit Twelve, uno ; 16 ask it you recognize chat? 17 (Thereupon, the aforeuentioneo 18 document, being article by Vi. G. Hazard Proceedings ot Rhode Island Health 19 Institute, was market: Deposition Exhibit Twelve.) 20 21 A. Yes, I remember this well. (Handing document back). 22 Q. I will identify it on the record. This is excerpt from 23 the Proceedings of the Rhode Island Industrial Health 24 Institute by W. G. Hazard, dated May 19, 1943. Is the 25 author of this report, Mr. Ames, the same Mr. Hazard 26 that you referred to earlier in cne deposition today? 27 A. Yes. 28 Q. Okay. Did Mr. Hazara sena you a copy of that? JA N IC E Y . TIIOi-tAS (415) 254-3760 61 1 Q. Sir, is it true as or 1943, you were not aware or any 2 studies that indicated that insulator--- and by that I ,,iCan! 3 field applicators of asbestos containing insuiacion 4 materials ana products-- were at any risk because of | 5 exposure to asbestos oust? 6 MR. CARLSON: Objection, leading. 7 THE W1TUESS: Well, aw I to answer? 8 MR. BOHDONHO: YOS. 9 THE WITNESS: Please restate the question. 10 MR. BONDOUHO: I am sorry, let me try a^ain. Aa 11 of 1943, did you know or any studies that indicated that 12 insulators using asbestos containing thermal insulation 13 material were at healtn risi;? 14 MR. CARLSON: Vague anu ambiguous as to wnat you 15 mean by "studies". 16 MR. BOMDOUMO: A Puoiic Health document, medical 17 studies. 18 A. I forgot the date on that U. S. Public Health puoiication. 19 Q. Let me restate. 20 HR. CARLSON: January 4, 1935. 21 THE WITNESS: Well, I have seen that. 22 MR. BONDONNO: Ail rignt. And that is referred 23 to as Exhibit 10? Your knowledge would be limited to the a 24 information you got from Exhibit.10, woulo that oe fair? 25 MR. CARLSON: Knowledge as to what subject. 26 MR. BONDONNO: Your knowledge as to any 27 potential risk to insulators or, strike that. I w i n 28 rephrase the question. Mr. Ames, Is it true that your JANICE Y . THOMAS (415) 254-3760 62 1 Knowledge relating to any inhalation or asoestos health 2 hazards would be limiteu to what information you couiu 3 glean from the United State Puoiic Health Dulletins i 4 marked as Plaintiff's Numuer 10? j ! 5 'ill. cALLAtlAU: Your information. 6 MR. BONDOH1JO; Your source of information. 7 MR. CARLSOM: Anu you aiu his only source, 8 right. I 9 THE WITNESS: Weil 1 can't say it was my cniy 10 source, but it was a source, right. 11 MR. BOHDOIUIO: That is the only source you can 12 remember as you are sitting here today. 13 A. The only authoritative source: j 14 Q. And now, Mr. Ames, let me ask you this, isn't it true as j 15 of 1943, you were not aware of any studies chat lnuicsceu 16 insulators and people putting on insulation that contained 17 asbestos, were at risk? 18 MR. CARLSOtl: Objection, leading. 19 MR. BOMDOWWO: (Jo ahead, you can answer the 20 question. 21 A. 1 was not aware of the existence of any sucn stuuy oeyonu 22 that. 23 Q. When you say oeyono this, you are referring to Exhioit 24 10? You didn't know anything beyonu Exhibit Ten, is that 25 fair? 26 A. I think so. 27 MR. BGNDONNO: One more minute, and 1 think I am 28 done. (Pause). Thank you, Mr. Ames. JAM ICE Y . THOMAS (415) 254-3760 64 1 the Lungs of Asoestos Workers. Do you know, sir, what 2 kinds of plants were the subject of this article, Exhibit ! 3 10? 4 A. I don't know without reading it again. 5 Q. If you could look at *>age 4 or Exnioit 10, unuer the cue 6 heading ;Conuitions in cne Plants, you will see there is. a 7 description of kinds of worx tnat is uone in tne plants? ; 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Does reading that description or the Kina of wori; done in j 10 the plant refresh your recollection tnat the subject 11 i matter of this article are asbestos textile Mills? 12 A. Exactly. j 13 A. It refers to vertical openings similar to those used in j 14 textile mills. ! 15 Q. So, the information you gleeneo from this article nau to 16 do with the expetience of workers in asbestos textile j 17 mills, is chat correct? 18 A. I think that's correct. 19 Q. You told Mr. Bonuonno and Mr. Ken Carlson tnat since you 20 had know training as industrial nygienist or occupational 21 physician, ano 1 take it from tnat we can all conciuue 22 that you never worked as an industrial nygieniat, too? 23 A. Right. 24 Q. Or as a physician? 25 A. Right. 26 Q. Did you have any experience in interpreting articles 27 dealing with industrial hygiene as an industrial hygenist? 28 A. You mean, the technical difficulty in the way of JA N ICE Y . THOilAS (415) 254-3760 u U 1 Doctor Gardner about that. 2 li. CARLSON: Does tnat refresh your memory as 3 tQ the conclusion of Doctor Lanza's report? 4 HR. BONDONNO: Oojcation if I may, I will have 5 running objection to this whole line of questions oecauje 6 conclusions are written down-- 7 MR. CARLSON: You can Keep mailing tnem. 8 HR. BOMDONUOi All right. 9 (Witness examining.) 10 MR. JUDILIERKR: Are you asking is this wnat the 11 document says, is tnat cne question. 12 MR. CARLSON: Same question you askeu Mr. 13 Jubilierer, wnat the document said. 14 HR. BONDONNO: The document speaks for itself. 15 I would agree it speaks or itself. 16 HR. CARLSOII: Die you, at the time you worked 17 with Owens Corning Fiberglas, have any difficulty 18 understanding the conclusion there? 19 MR. BONDONNO: Same objection, also it is 20 ambiguous. 21 MR. CARLSON: I don't think you have to oe a 22 technician or technologist to unuerscand that. I think any 23 college gracuate wno hao a course in Freshman Englisn 24 could understand it even without the help of a dictionary. 25 THE WITNESS: Prolonged exposure to asoestos 26 dust, caused a pulmonary fibrosis, of a type different 27 from silicosis, and demonstratabie on X-ray film. 28 Clinically, from this study, it appears to be of a type JANICE Y . TUO,IAS (415) 254-376Q 1 milder thansilicosis. l 6 S I j 2 THE WITNESS: No rurtner guestions? j 3 MR. LYMAN: I have a tew. 4 EXAMINATION BYMR. LYMAN ! 5 Q. You understood when you reau that uocument, that tut study: i 6 was orplant workers, is thatcorrect? I 7 MR. CARLSON: Objection,calls rot speculation, j 8 Document speaks for itself. 9 HR. BONDONNO: It is a study of plant workers. 10 MR. CARLSON: Objection to that comment. 11 MR. LYMAN: I am asking for his under standing. 12 MR. CARLSON: I am objecting to Mr. Bonconno's 13 statement. !| 14 THE WITNESS: Yes, plant workers. 15 HR. LYMAN: Your understanding when you first 16 read it, anti your understanding now is that the wcru 17 "shipyard" does not appear m tnat report, is that 18 correct? 19 HR. CARLSON: Objection, leading and suggestive. 20 THE WITNESS: I don't find any reference to 21 "shipboard". 22 MR. LYMAH: And no reference to insulators in 23 it? 24 * A. No, sir. 25 HR. LYMAll: No further questions. 26 HR. BONDONNO: Anyone else? 27 FURTHER EXAHINATION BY MR. JUBILIERER 28 Q. Mr. Ames, can you read X-rays-- chest X-rays? JA N ICE Y . THOMAS (415) 254-3760