Document 0B5z2YJO6mOL6v6mGEBp66Vk

REPORT OF MEETING WITH MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE, FISHERIES AND FOOD, . AT MONSANTO HOUSE, LONDON - loth MARCH, 1970: Present for Ministry : J.E.Portmann ) E.C.Wood ) Fisheries jLaboratory, Burnham-on-crouch. A.V.Holden S.Bailey - Freshwater Fisheries Laboratory, Pitlochry. I '. - Infestation Control Laboratory, Tolworth. For Monsanto D. S.Cameron R.A.Lidgett H.A.Vodden Copies to : - JVW.Barredf? H. S. Bergen // H.N.Bihisprom K.Fl&tcher B. T. G^land j.C.Garrels F. Macdonald P.J.A.Marsh - London - St. Louis ruraam ' - London - London - London - Newport - Brussels i | H.R.Newman j R.A.Onians j W.B.Papageorge | R.E.Soden j J.E.Springgate J.Thevenin' I R.G.Veldeman | H.A.Vodden | E.P.Wheeler - Newport - Brussels - St. Louis - Brussels - St. Louis - Brussels - London - Ruabon - St. Louis i CONFIDEN T I A L SUMMARY " ; ! ` By leading the discussion away ;from sensitive areas, by prolonging the further exchange of analytical techniques, and by encouraging debate as to why the PCB residues commonly found in nature more closely resembled pentachloro- MON S \X 03V203 TOWOLDMONOQ46380 -2- diphenyl, we were able to preclude the direct question "who are the main userB of PCB1s and where are they' located?". This was one of the specific questions raised at our previous meetings' and repeated in the Ministry of Agriculture's letter dated 30th January addressed to the Chemical Industries Association. Accordingly, we did not name any customers, nor did we disclose the NCR paper application. The Ministry are no wiser about the applications, for PCB or the .-major geographical areas of usage than they were after our January meeting. The Pitlochry and Burnham laboratories have now found ECB resembling pentachlorodiphenyl in some sewage sludges. ~ It is their intention to try to trace bach to the-origin of this sewage and to identify the plant responsible for it. They will! send us sludge samples so we may check their findings-; _______________ ' ' I : , Contact will be maintained withj Wood, but no date was ' fixed for a further meeting. j DETAIL ! 1) We asked that anything we said be regarded as confidential and this was accepted. If they wish to use anything we have disclosed in their contribution to-the NERC report they will first seek our clearance to do so. ` I] . ' 2) A.C.Simpson is the director of the Burnham-on-Crouch laboratory, and his approach to the CIA was to see if they had any data on the major users of- PCB*s and the extent of imports intoj the U.K. We thought it unlikely the CIA would have this information and they would be more likely to contact us, as they have done. ! . imports of PCB ' 3 are not quoted in the normal Board of Trade import statistics; but we thought them to be very small. This information must be available from the Statistical Office and it would probably be much easier, and less costly, for the Ministry of Agriculture to obtain it than for ourselves. They will follow this up with the Board of Trade. HONS \ 034204 TOWOLDMONOQ46381 -3 -- 3) Concentrations of PCB in the 5 - 10. ppm range have now been detected in some, but not all, samples of sewage sludges. These residues most closely resemble pentachlorodiphenyl. Positive results have been obtained in the Glasgow and Manchester areas - these sludges are normally dumped in the Clyde Estuary and in Liverpool Bay. The Manchester samples were thought to have been digested. Manchester sewage is known to contain about 30% industrial sewage and there is .currently 500,000 tons per year to dispose, of; at 5 ppm in the sludge this would result in only 2*5 tons PCB per year dumped in Liverpool Bay.. The Glasgow samples were thought to have been both raw and digested, and there was some evidence of lower concentrations in the digested material. The Burnham laboratory is now going to examine sludge samples from London jand the South West which are normally dumped in theiThames Estuary and in the Bristol Channel. Samples j (not necessarily from these locations) will be sent to Rutbon so that results can be compared. j 4) No fish from the Bristol Channel have yet been obtained for analysis. To enable Ruabon to gain experience with 'wild life samples, Portmann will send them fish samples for analysis. To ensure techniques are comparable we shall let Burnham and Pitlochry have : our detailed written method. They would be very interested in the results o any U. S- investigations with fish and in the methods used, both in terms of toxicity and analytical results- 5) The Tolworth laboratory has failed to find any PCB residues in grain-eating birds, except for one occasion -in a barn owl. This laboratory is planning to feed pure individual isomers to birds to establish which can and cannot be metabolized. ' They have so far establish ed that the 3,4 dichloro isomer is readily metabolized - no~g&sldues could be datfedted m"'birds xrxiea witnm 48 hoursrof the"5nfi of" feeding, trials, nor wasthere any in the droppings. . We handed over a copy of our sixJ months results from the feeding trials with small , mammals. .; " 03*25 \ TOWOLDMON0046382 I { -4- I . Acute toxicity towards fish was still not considered to be a problem by the Ministry, though there was a \ hint of a little more cause for concern than previously reported. ; 6) They intend trying to define the catchment areas for some of the larger sewage works in the main industrial areas. Hopefully, they will then be' able to trace back up the sewer lines to the origin of the sewage containing PCB. It is recognized this sort of investigationjcould be very time consuming so when the catchment areas have been defined we may be asked ifjwe could identify probable pollution sources within the area. 7) I PCB residues being found still more closely resemble pentachlorodiphenyl than any' of the other commercially availahle grades. Howler, Bailey observed that . these residues may be partially "degraded tridhloro- diphehyl rather than, for" example, a 1254~rssidue. Al'trern&tTvely, they" may be: penta "residues arising from ^ /the greater use of this grade by the electrical . (industry' some years ago than is the case today. We avoided a direct answerj when questioned on the quantities of PCB UBed in the U.K., indicating the total 1969 figure was in the thousands rather than hundreds of tons, but less: than 5,000 tons. The usage of penta.chlorodiphen.yl was a relatively modest percentage of the total, j The hexachloro compound was a component of transformer askarel but usage in the U.K. was small in comcprison with the Continent. Movement of water around the U.K. was predominantly from the South West up thei Irish sea and around the North of Scotland into the North Sea, and up the English Channel. A very 'complicated system- occurred off the Thames Estuary. [Fish, such as herring, - normally move over an area of some hundreds of miles but there are distinct stocks for the East and West of the U.K., and fish from the North Sea would not normally find their way to, for example, the West Coast of Scotland. j \ , o3^6 \^qNS TOWOLDMON0046383 8) Because of the instructions received from St. Louis, and despite the fact that both Wiggins.Teape and NCR U.K. believe that disclosing their application for 1242 would be a positive and constructive step, we did not identify this application, nor did we even mention the paper industry as a user. Indeed, no customers for any grade of Aroclor were named for fear of leading the discussion into an area that . would have been embarrassing vis-a-vis -the "iJCR and Wiggins Teape position, even though in prior consult ation with the major fluids land plasticizer customers they had agreed to be named; if need be. i a Following our two meetings with the Ministry they must now believe the electrical industry to be the major user of PCB's, followed by a variety of miscellaneous applications in the paint, adhesive, sealant, plastics and engineering fields. I 9) Publication of the WP&r. report is new iirLliVt-Ly hgfnr Mavl Up to 25 organizations have been invited to contribute - see attached appendix listing those attending the last NERC sponsored meeting on the Irish Sea incident. The report will almost certainly identify industries that use PCB, but not individual companies, and it will speculate as to how the PCB residues originate and reach the sea. Monsanto is likely to be named as the sola U.K. manufacturer, and acknowledgement would be made to the assistance we have provided. Holden suggested press interest in I the report would be minimaljin view of the time that . ( has elapsed since the original incident. ACTION DSC - Send comprehensive sets of Aroclor literature to Burnham, Pitlochry and Tolworth. j . HAV . - DSC/ec 18.3.70. Arrange for analysis of sewage sludge and fish samples and comparison of results. 1 - Send complete details of our analytical method to Portnann and Holden. -1 \ !' MbNS 034207 TOWOLDMONOQ46384 'v. B Note for Editor* The following organisation* vert represented at the meeting: Royal Society for the Protection of Bird* The Sesbird Group . Royal Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animal* Britiah Trust for Ornithology ' Ocean Resource* Conservation Association University of Cambridge, Department !of Aniisal Pathology Hinistry of Technology : Water Pollution Research Laboratory Laboratory of the Government Chemist Ministry of Agriculture, Fiaheriec and Food : Infestation Control Laboratory j- Tolworth Shellfiah Laboratory, Buraha-on-Crouch Salmon and Freshvatar Fiaheriaa Laboratory, Whitehall Central Veterinary Laboratory,iWeybridge . Veterinary Rasearch Laboratories, Stormont Ministry of Dofence (Army) ,! Chemical Defence Experimental Establishment, Porton Down Microbiological Research Establishment, Porton Down Department of Agriculture and Fisheries for Scotland Marine Laboratory, Aberdeen | Freshwater Fisheries,Laboratory, Pitlochry National Institute for Kadical Research Council, Mill Hill Department of Marine Sciences, University College North Vales, Nature. Conservancy, Headquarters, Belgravo Square Bangor Nature Conservancy, Monks Wood Experimental Station Nature Conservancy, Merlewood Research Station Nature Conservancy, Scotland j Nature Conservancy, Vales j. Scottish Marina Biological Association Dunstaffnage Marina Research Laboratory, Oban Oceanographic Laboratory, Edinburgh Marina Biological Station, Port- Erin, I.O.K. The following Government Departments eent observersi Cabinet Office j Hone Office j Scottish Office i Ministry of Housing and local Government Department of Education and Scisnee| Department of Health and Social Security Department of Local Government and Regional Planning ' j `. i 034208 TOWOLDMONOQ46385