Document zzypoXqnQkYmdV8Qnym5gb5mm

T. Marmor Page 53 1 insurance more generally. That was the focal 2 point. How do you explain the growth of social. 3 insurance all over Western Europe and North 4 America in the period from the late 19tb 5 century to 1930s, by which time itwas-one of 6 the most disputed areas,of American public 7 life,. 8 Q. While you were at the University;. 9 of Wisconsin,-did you write on the topic;of 10 asbestos? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Can you recall any particular; 13 learned treatises,,textbooks,et cetera.that- 14 you studied, there that touched on the topicof--. 15 asbestos specifically? .; .- v . ; . , 16 A. - There was one person and one book 17 that I recall discussingdty the name of Raymond 18 Muntz, M-U-N-T-Z. Thetitleof which, if.I can 19 recall correctly from 1968,,'69,..was something 20 like Bargaining for Health. Ray Mirnte waSan 21 official on thelabormovement wh o cam e to the 22 University of Wisconsin,Poverty-Institute Where- 23 I was a research fellow/,and.we-talked about 24 the variety,of labor struggles about health ; 25 related matters, both, medical and occupational/: Page 55 1 said, but I do know that Ray was from the labor 2 movement, and I do know, that Bargaining for 3 Health-included-questions-of occupational 4 health and safety, but asbestos wasn't clear in 5 my. memory.=. 6 Q. Did Ray think OSHA was desirable? 7 A. Yes... 8 Q. -At that time^ did you think OSHA 9 was desirable? 10 A. I didn't know, since this was 11 early on in my-work in this area. I certainly 12 thought occupational health and safely, was an 13 importantrarea.to proceed with;-,but I at that 14 point waa.writing about medical care more than 15 I was about occupational health, and I was 16 really probing people like Ray and others about 17 OSHA. 18 Q. What is your opinion now.; is OSHA 19 desirable? 20 MS. ROSENBERG:. Objection to the 21 form. 22 A. That depends on whether, you're 23 talking about desirable as a counterweight to 24 industrial threats and pollu tion, of threats in 25 the 1970s or the wayJn.which OSHA operates Page 54, Page 56 1 and asbestos was part-of that discussion. 2 Wbatlcan'trecallis-howbiga . 3 part it was of the book, but it certainly was 4 part of our discussion. 5 Q. Could you tell me again what - 6 Mr. Muntz'-- 7 A. He was in this Department of 8 Social Welfare trained, as ah economist,-1 ,.' 9 believe, whosebook was, as l:suggested; 4allcd . 10 Bargaining for.;Healthvilt<was.abbutit&e labbr : 11 movement and its hegotiations about health 12 related matters.-: 13 Q. You read his book which'had some;-, > 14 reference to asbestos, but you also had,' 15 discussions with this gentleman; is that 16 correct? 17 A. That's correct. He was a............... 18 participant in our regular-seminar. - . 19 Q. ` -Doyou remember discussing the 20 topic of asbestos with him? 21 A. 1 remember discussing the topic 22 of-the questions regarding whether OSHA was a 23 desirable innovation of the American public - 24 life, and I don't recall a particular 25 conversation, but I would be making it up if l 1 today. 2 I think retrospectively:it was 3 extremely valuable-innovation in the American 4 public-policy in T970j and. promoted a 5 tremendous attention to occupational health and 6 safety issues. .. 7 Q. At some point, did it- become not 8 valuable in your.mind? - !9 A/, ,;It doesn't become not valuable or > 10 valuable altogether.at any one time. There has 11 been a-lot of disputes about the costs and 12 benefits about particular OSHA regulations, and 13 those are ones that require detail study-in 14 order to have a sensible opinion about it. 15 Q. You don't, want to go through that 16 detailed study do you? I don't. 17 A. You mean here? 18 Q. Yes. I don't. Let's move on. 19 First of all, have we discussed 20 all that you remember about the study of 21 asbestos or asbestos as it touched on your 22 study in-teaching at the University of 23 Wisconsin? 24 A. Yes, we can go through that 25 pretty quickly. 14 (Pages 53 to 56) POHLMAN REPORTING COMPANY (314)421-0099