Document mqpvb236QNaX9v5R90JqzRbQZ

JAMES HEFFRON IN THE DISTRICT OF HARRIS COUNTY, TEXAS LINDA WHETSELL, individually and as representative of the Estate of EDWARD WHETSELL, and STACY WHETSELL, his daughter, Plaintiffs, Cause No. 2005-53919-7 v. EL PASO CORP, et al., Defendants. Transferred from LINDA WHETSELL, individually and as representative of the Estate of EDWARD WHETSELL, and STACY WHETSELL, his daughter, Plaintiffs, Cause No. 2005-53919-7 v. REF-CHEM, et al., Defendants. And IN RE: ASBESTOS LITIGATION, MULTI-DISTRICT LITIGATION, 11th JUDICIAL DISTRICT RICHARD KERRY WEIKEL, Individually and as Representative of the Estate of GROVER WEIKEL, Deceased, and JEANNE WEIKEL, Plaintiffs, Cause No. 2004-55629 v. GARLOCK SEALING TECHNOLOGIES, LLC, as successor by merger to GARLOCK, INC., Defendants. Page 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 2 AP PEARANCES Appearing on Behalf of Plaintiffs: Jeffery Mundy, Esq. Mundy & Singley LLP 816 Congress Avenue Suite 1670 Austin Texas Appearing on Behalf of Defendant Garlock Sealing Technologies LLC: Ray Harris, Esq. Schachter Harris LLP 2300 Plaza of the Americas Dallas, Texas 75201 Appearing on Behalf of Riley Stoker Corp: Marco Flores, Esq. DeHay & Elliston, LLP 3500 Bank of America Plaza 901 Main Street Dallas, Texas 75202 Appearing Telephonically on Behalf of Foster Wheeler Energy Corp: Michele Smith, Esq. Mehaffy Weber 2615 Calder Avenue Beaumont, Texas 77704-0016 Page 3 Page 4 Transferred from 3 IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF CAMERON COUNTY, TEXAS 4 RICHARD KERRY WEIKEL, Individually and as Representative of the Estate of GROVER WEIKEL, Deceased, and JEANNE WEIKEL, Plaintiffs, 7 Cause No. 2004-02-888-B v. GARLOCK SEALING TECHNOLOGIES, LLC, as successor by merger to GARLOCK INC., et al., 10 Defendants. 11 12 Deposition Upon Oral Examination Of: 13 James Heffron 14 Location: Osborn Reed & Burke, LLP 15 45 Exchange Street Rochester, New York 14614 16 17 Date: November 15, 2007 18 Time: 10:01 a.m. 19 20 Reported By: Joanne N. Pero 21 Alliance Court Reporting, Inc. 22 183 Main Street East, Suite 1500 23 Rochester, New York 14604 24 25 1 APPEARANCES 2 November 15, 2007 3 (The proceeding reconvened at 10:01 a.m.) 4 continuing stipulations.) 5 *** 6 (Appearances were placed onthe videotaped 7 record.) 8 (The following exhibit was marked for 9 identification: Garlock 1.) 10 MR. MUNDY: For housekeeping, this is 11 taken according to the Texas Rules of Civil 12 Procedure. This is the deposition of Garlock 13 Corporation or Garlock Sealing Technologies taken 14 pursuant to Texas Rule of Civil Procedure 199.1 and 15 pursuant to rule 199.2(b)1, they have designated Mr. 16 James Heffron. 17 The Notice is attached as Exhibit 1 and 18 I guess I should say actually they designated Mr. 19 Heffron on every subject matter with one exception 20 which would be the one specific to Garlock's current 21 financial status net worth which is subject matter 2 2 17 and he is not designated on that subject matter; 23 correct? 24 MR. HARRIS: That is correct. 2 5__________ MR. MUNDY: I'll agree an objection by a 1 (Pages 1 to 4) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 5 Page 7 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 defendant who is present including Ms. Smith on the 2 nothing about Garlock's history has really changed 3 phone is good for both -- by any one of you three is 3 in the last few years or there is no 4 good for those who are present but not beyond that. 4 newly-discovered evidence about when they first 5 Other than that, ready to go? 5 learned of the hazards of asbestos or anything like 6 MR. HARRIS: Yes. 6 that? 7 JAMES HEFFRON, 7 A. I would not expect so, no. 8 called herein as a witness, first being 8 Q. We talked for a little bit on the 9 sworn, testified as follows: 9 record. One of the things we are going to do right L0 EXAMINATION BY MR. MUNDY: 10 off the bat here is not at all exciting but it's 11 Q. Please state your full name, sir. 11 important. Garlock previously has produced to us a 12 A. James E. Heffron, H-e-f-f-r-o-n. 12 box full of Garlock catalogs and as we talked off 13 Q. And where do you currently live, sir? 13 the record, I am going to ask you to go through 14 A. I live in Geneva, New York. 14 these, I will put a sticker on each one, and if you 15 Q. How are you currently employed? 15 can -- before we do this, I am going to ask you to 16 A. I am employed by Garlock Sealing 16 go through the catalogs and give us your best 17 Technologies, LLC. 17 reasonable opinion about the time period when the 18 Q. And you understand that you are here in 18 Garlock catalog was published. If you can -- as I 19 an official capacity as the official designated 19 said off the record, some of them you can't get to 20 corporate representative to speak on behalf of 20 the exact year but if you can say early '50s, late 21 Garlock today, correct? 21 '60s or a decade, that is adequate. But we have a 22 A. I am the corporate representative, yes, 22 stack and to my untrained eye, they are hard to 23 sir. 23 narrow in, so we are going to make use of your 24 Q. Have you seen the deposition notice 24 knowledge. In fact, historically your role has been 25 which we have marked as Exhibit 1? 25 in the Marketing Department or that has been one of Page 6 Page 8 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 A. I believe so unless it has been amended 2 your long-term -- 3 in the last few hours or something. 3 MR. HARRIS: Excuse me, objection to the 4 Q. It has not. 4 comments preceding the question. 5 A. I have looked at it, yes. 5 MR. MUNDY: Is that just an objection to 6 Q. Okay. And you are prepared to speak on 6 form? You can't say anything beyond that. 7 the subject matters of that notice with the 7 MR. HARRIS: I object to the form of the 8 exception of the financial status and net worth 8 question. 9 category? 9 Q. Mr. Heffron, historically -- trace your 10 A. Yes, to the best of my ability. 10 employment history for us with Garlock, if you 11 MR. HARRIS: Just say that we have filed 11 would. 12 objections to this notice and his testimony today is 12 A. Certainly. I started with Garlock in 13 subject to any objections that we have made to those 13 January of 1972 and first worked in our Inside Sales 14 areas of inquiry. 14 Department that is currently referred to as Customer 15 MR. MUNDY: Okay. 15 Service. That was until approximately October of 16 Q. Mr. Heffron, you and I have had a chance 16 1974 when I left Garlock and went to work for 17 to meet in this type setting previously and take 17 Metropolitan Life Insurance until approximately 18 your video testimony. You may remember the case of 18 August of 1975, at which point I returned to Garlock 19 Victor Davis, a Navy enlisted man? 19 once again in Inside Sales but specifically for the 20 A. I don't remember the case specifically 20 Compression Packing Business Unit handling OEM 21 but I do remember you, yes. 21 sales. 22 Q. I am going to try to mostly not re-plow 22 Q. What is OEM? 23 all the same ground we went over, so there may be a 23 A. Original equipment manufacturers. 24 bit of overlap but I will try to remain mindful of 24 Q. What is Inside Sales? 25 what we discussed previously. And I am assuming 25 A. Inside Sales is the person who is 2 (Pages 5 to 8) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 9 Page 11 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 responsible for -- primarily for order entry but 2 and marketing manager for our Compression Packing 3 customer contact, customers at that time would 3 Business Unit. That unit was located in Sodus, New 4 communicate via letter, via telex, via telephone and 4 York. I was responsible then for the entire country 5 you would be responsible for working with the 5 for the promotion, advertising, pricing, the 6 customer which starting in 1972 would have been the 6 identification of unmet customer needs and new 7 Garlock distributors in the area of the country I 7 product development for that specific line of 8 was responsible for which was primarily the Eastern 8 products generally used in pumps and in valves until 9 Seaboard. And you would provide the customer, in 9 the spring of 1981. 10 that case the distributor, with information as to 10 In May, approximately, of 1981, I 11 pricing, delivery, some simple application 11 transferred to Houston, Texas and took on the 12 information. 12 responsibility as the southwest regional manager. 13 Q. So sales representative on the company 13 That position was a sales management position and I 14 side? 14 was responsible for coordinating the activities of 15 A. Customer Service is how they refer to it 15 our Garlock sales representatives in the State of 16 now but it was called Inside Sales then. The entry 16 Texas as well as the distributors who were 17 of orders and all of the activities associated with 17 authorized for our products in that same area. That 18 that. 18 involved sales planning, again identification of 19 Q. What did you do after that? 19 customers' needs, input to the plant on new product 2 0 A. As I mentioned, I left the company in 2 0 development, coordination of our sales activities, 21 '74, returned in '75 and I worked then in Customer 21 the authorization of distributors, the cancellation 2 2 Service, Inside Sales for a particular business 22 of distributors, all those general activities that 2 3 unit, no longer responsible for the order activity 23 would go into sales management. And all that 2 4 between Garlock and its distributors but now 24 activity again was in the maintenance and repair 2 5 responsible for the order activity between Garlock 2 5 area. Page 10 Page 12 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 2 and the original equipment manufacturers who may buy 2 3 products from Garlock, very similar activities, 3 4 quoting prices, delivery, entering orders and so 4 5 forth. 5 6 Q. All right. And continue to trace your 6 7 employment history up until this point in time, up 7 8 to today? 8 9 A. Certainly. In probably October or so of 9 10 1976, I became an MRO salesman. MRO stands for 10 11 Maintenance and Repair Organization. And as an MRO 11 12 salesman, I covered an area of New York State from 12 13 approximately Buffalo to Utica, Massena to 13 14 Binghamton. And my responsibility was calling on 14 15 companies who might use Garlock products in the 15 16 maintenance of their own facility and in working 16 17 with the independent Garlock distributors in that 17 18 geographic area who were responsible or authorized 18 19 for Garlock products. So in that case you are 19 2 0 introducing new products, you are determining 20 21 customer needs, you are doing training on the use of 21 22 your products and working of course with both end 22 2 3 users and with distributors. 23 24 I continued in that capacity until 24 2 5 September of 1979 at which time I became the sales 25 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY In August of 1982, I transferred back to our primary manufacturing facility which was and still is at 1666 Division Street in Palmyra, New York. At that time I took over the sales -- I think they call it strictly marketing -- today would be called product management -- for what we referred to as our hydraulic components. Garlock offers various types of products, products that we consider hydraulic components, those are products used in sealing reciprocating rods, rams and plungers on cylinders and presses and so forth. Lip-type seals, closure-type oil seals, gasketing materials of various types, rubber, cloth inserted rubber, at that time compressed asbestos sheet, Teflon, GYLON, metal gaskets referred to as spiral-wound gaskets, flexible rubber connectors that are referred to as expansion joints, so they have -- Garlock has seven basic product units. In '82, when I transferred back I was responsible for the sales, actually the marketing activity, associated with one of those and that was the hydraulic components. I continued in that capacity until approximately 1985, I believe, at which time I took 3 (Pages 9 to 12) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 13 Page 15 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 on responsibility for the OEM sales management and 2 responsibility again as a general manager back again 3 the OEM again stands for original equipment 3 in what we called hydraulic components, very similar 4 manufacturers, so in that capacity, I was working 4 to all the other operational manufacturing 5 with the independent manufacturers' reps who sold 5 responsibilities that I discussed earlier. In 6 Garlock products to original equipment manufacturers 6 addition to that, I think in early 1999 I took on 7 as well as any direct Garlock employees. 7 the responsibility for our molded rubber products as 8 Continued with that until about October 8 well. Most hydraulic seals are molded and then 9 of 1987 at which time I moved into manufacturing 9 those other special molded rubber products that I 10 responsibility and I became the operations manager 10 described earlier. 11 for hydraulic components, continued -- in that 11 Continued with that responsibility until 12 capacity, I would be responsible for the plant 12 about July, I think, of 19 -- of 1999 at which time 13 operations, the manufacturing process, the engineers 13 I took on the responsibility as director of 14 who were responsible for maintaining the process and 14 training. My primary responsibility there was to 15 improving the process, the engineers responsible for 15 help Garlock learn about and then initiate an 16 developing new products, the inventory management 16 orientation and training program on principles of 17 and all the other activities associated with running 17 manufacturing called LEAN, L-E-A-N. And LEAN 18 a factory. 18 manufacturing is a process by which you identify 19 I continued with that responsibility 19 customers' needs, you attempt to understand what 2 0 until approximately December of 1989 when I took on 20 part of your process is designed to meet those needs 21 a very similar responsibility for something Garlock 21 and identify any waste associated in the process 2 2 called molded rubber. Molded rubber like most of 22 that doesn't add value to the product and meet the 2 3 the products sold to the original equipment market 23 customers' needs. Eliminate any waste that occurs 2 4 as the name implies was primarily molded components, 24 and implement a more, for lack of a better word, 2 5 a variety of different types of products, anything 2 5 modern manufacturing approach. Page 14 Page 16 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 from vacuum belts for a Xerox copier to large 2 I continued in that capacity until 3 rubber-covered gate valves, to seals for a piece of 3 approximately September of 2000 at which time I took 4 farm equipment or an industrial bulldozer. 4 on the responsibility for the marketing for 5 Continued with that responsibility until 5 industrial gasketing. Industrial gasketing is the 6 about August of 1990 at which time I became the vice 6 various gasketings I described earlier with the 7 president and general manager of our Compression 7 exception of any metal gaskets. It was the rubber, 8 Packing Business Unit in Sodus. That is the same 8 the homogeneous rubber gasketing, the fabric 9 business unit I have worked for twice before, very 9 reinforced rubber gasketing, the compressed asbestos 10 similar responsibilities. It is the entire plant 10 gasketing, the compressed non-asbestos gasketing and 11 operations and all of the duties associated with 11 the Teflon gasketing as well as GYLON which was 12 operating a plant including plant safety and quality 12 an -- or is rather a restructured Teflon process 13 and new product development and process and 13 that Garlock uses to make a product called GYLON. I 14 inventory and so forth. 14 continued in that capacity -- they changed the title 15 Continued with that responsibility until 15 at some point to product manager. 16 approximately January of 1996 at which time I took 16 I continued in that capacity until 17 over as vice president of quality back at our main 17 approximately February of 2005 at which time I took 18 plant in Palmyra, New York, where I was responsible 18 on responsibility as -- in marketing, Senior 19 for both the quality system which is the -- the 19 Marketing Manager for voice of the customer. Voice 20 actual methods that you use and the people who are 2 0 of the customer has its links back into quality 21 involved in checking on the quality of our product 21 being used originally to establish something called 22 and the certification of that process as well as the 22 quality function deployment which is basically just 23 procedural part, the quality manual and so forth. 23 identifying customer needs and the parts of your 24 Continued with that responsibility until 24 process that are -- that control the attributes that 2 5 approximately October of 1997 where I took on the 2 5 are necessary to meet your customer needs. And that 4 (Pages 13 to 16) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 17 Page 19 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 is my current capacity and that brings us up to 2 warnings. I am going to take it up with the judge 3 today. 3 if you keep this up. 4 MR. MUNDY: And just to help Mr. Harris 4 mR. HARRIS: You cannot instruct the 5 here, he has found a copy of his objections. Do you 5 witness in a misleading fashion to inform him to 6 want to mark those as Exhibit 2. 6 guess when he doesn't have to. 7 MR. HARRIS: Please. 7 MR. MUNDY: Ray, I am warning you right 8 (The following exhibit was marked for 8 now, if you keep this up, I am warning you, I am 9 identification: Garlock 2.) 9 going to seek sanctions against the company and you L0 Q. Bottom line, through your career, 10 personally if you keep instructing the witness like 11 marketing has been a major focal -- focus of your 11 this. No more warnings. 12 responsibilities through the years and you have 12 MR. HARRIS: I am not instructing the 13 familiarity with the Garlock catalogs as part of 13 witness. I am telling you what the deal is, what 14 your job activities through the years, true? 14 our position is. 15 A. Through both marketing and other 15 Q. Mr. Heffron, answer the questions as 16 activities, yes, sir. 16 best you can and Mr. Harris and I will take the rest 17 Q. Customer interactions, you have to know 17 up with the judge later. 18 what is in the catalog when they are asking you 18 A. The process I am going to use and the 19 questions and what you have available and so forth? 19 only ability I have to identify the year would be 20 A. Yes, sir. 20 typically either in the first few pages of the front 21 (The following exhibits were marked for 21 of the catalog or on the last page of a catalog, 22 identification: Garlock 3 through 110.) 22 there is a -- I wouldn't call it a code but there is 23 Q. Okay. Now, going back -- we are getting 23 information that shows. And the quality of the 24 ready to go on a long slow trudge here. What I want 24 documents that I am looking at I am sure are going 25 to do is Garlock has produced a box full of catalogs 25 to vary, so if I can read the document and I can Page 18 Page 20 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 to me so I just frankly cannot discern what year 2 tell the date, I certainly will do that. 3 they are, I can make a guess but that doesn't do 3 For instance, this particular document 4 anything. What I want to do is take advantage of my 4 appears to say "8/94" and then there is some other 5 time today, I am going to hand them to you, if you 5 information like "20 M-G" and that to me means it 6 know or can give a reasonable estimate of either the 6 was produced in August of 1994. There are 7 year or general zone, early '90s, late '60s or 1960s 7 approximately 20,000 copies that were produced and 8 or best you can, if there is something you just flat 8 it is a Garlock catalog. So that one I can 9 out don't know, just say "fine," we'll set those to 9 definitively identify. 10 the side and Mr. Harris will somehow research those 10 Q. That is Garlock 3, so write "1994" on 11 with the company. 11 the front. Write it on the document because the 12 So I am going to hand you first Exhibit 12 reporter will take them with her and the stickies 13 3 and you have a pen over there I have handed you. 13 will get lost. 14 If you would just write on the bottom what year that 14 Next is Garlock 4. And you marked 15 would be? 15 Garlock 4 as 1994, also; is that right? 16 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form, also the 16 A. Yes. 17 statements by counsel -- 17 Q. Next will be Garlock 5. 18 MR. MUNDY: All can say is "form." 18 A. I am writing "1986." 19 MR. HARRIS: That is not true. 19 Q. Okay. Next is Garlock 6. 20 MR. MUNDY: That is true. 20 A. This is a document where I cannot 21 MR. HARRIS: The instructions by counsel 21 clearly read the date. 22 are misleading that he has to make an estimate of 22 Q. Okay. Looking at the printing style and 23 something if he doesn't have the information before 23 the product lines and what it is marketed towards, 24 him. 24 can you estimate say the general zone, '60s, '70s, 25 MR. MUNDY: Ray, you get no more 25 '80s, '90s? 5 (Pages 17 to 20) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 21 Page 23 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 2 Q. So that would say, then, if you started 3 A. I would be speculating. 3 in '72 -- 4 Q. Can you give a reasonable opinion -- 4 A. Yes, sir. 5 MR. HARRIS: Mr. Heffron, you don't have 5 Q. -- so pre '72 is the best you can say? 6 to speculate. 6 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 7 MR. MUNDY: Ray, that is it. I can tell 7 Q. For Garlock 7? 8 you right now I am seeking sanctions with you if you 8 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 9 keep this up. It is over, no more chances. 9 A. The best I could say without actually L0 Q. The question is can you give a 11 reasonable opinion? 10 finding the original document and confirming the 11 date would be that it occurred before I began with 12 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 12 the company in 1972. 13 A. I believe the document says "1984" but I 13 Q. Okay. Next is Garlock 8. When in your 14 am not certain. 14 opinion to a reasonable probability is Garlock 8 15 Q. Okay. Let me ask this -- looking at the 15 from? 16 product -- looking at the product line and what it 16 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 17 is marketed towards, do you have familiarity with 17 A. I believe it is the same catalog that 18 when, looking at Garlock 6, Garlock would have 18 you may have handed me earlier. 19 marketed this line of products towards the Marine 19 Q. Just a duplicate of the previous? 20 industry? 20 A. I believe so. It appears to say "1982." 21 A. That is what allowed me to answer the 21 Q. Passing you Garlock 9. Same question, 22 question in that I believe that is a document from 22 when in your opinion to a reasonable probability is 23 the 1980s. I have not looked at all the items that 24 are in there to add any further clarification. 23 Garlock 9 from? 24 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 2 5 Q. I will hand it back to you. I am just 25 A. I can clearly read the date on the back Page 22 Page 24 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 asking for your opinions and reasonable probability. 3 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 2 and it says "March of 1991." 3 Q. I am passing you what has been marked as 4 A. In the contents, I see where Synthepak 4 Garlock 12, same question, when in your opinion to a 5 is mentioned and I was the sales and marketing 5 reasonable probability is that catalog from? 6 manager in compression packing when the Synthepak 6 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 7 products were introduced. They were introduced in 7 A. I believe the document says "1/91." 8 1980. 8 Q. Next is Garlock 10, when is that catalog 9 Q. So your first opinion of approximately 9 from? 10 1984 would seem in a reasonable probability to be 10 A. This is a catalog produced by Garlock 11 pretty accurate? 11 Valves and Industrial Plastics which is a separate 12 A. Yes, sir. 12 and distinct business unit and that part of Garlock 13 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 13 Sealing Technologies, LLC, so I don't know if their 14 Q. Next is Garlock 7, another Marine 14 methodology is different but it looks like 1990. 15 product catalog. 15 Q. How is that company different from 16 A. I can't read the information as to the 16 Garlock Sealing? 17 date on this catalog. 17 A. They are a separate Garlock business 18 Q. Looking at the style of the catalog, the 18 unit not part of Garlock Sealing Technologies, LLC. 19 printing, the product lines, the artwork, so forth, 19 Their business is all Teflon products. 20 can you give an estimate into which decade it would 20 Q. Was there a point in time when they were 21 likely fall to a reasonable probability? 22 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 21 part, all were part of the same Garlock family of 22 companies? 23 A. I don't recognize it as a document that 23 A. My involvement with the history doesn't 24 was produced during the time that I have been 24 go back to that point but certainly Garlock has sold 25 employed by Garlock. 25 the products almost in a distributor-type 6 (Pages 21 to 24) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 25 Page 27 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 relationship that were manufactured by Garlock 2 number 15. 3 Valves and Industrial Plastics. 3 A. I can read the date information and it 4 Q. Maybe more accurate. In the years past, 4 appears to be 1988. Let me just check that to make 5 you all had a common company origin which was 5 sure. Yes. 6 Garlock, Inc. and in the companies going through 6 Q. Passing you number 16. 7 various corporate changes, let's put it in a 7 A. I think there is actually two different 8 non-controversial way, split off companies and been 8 documents that are together and shown as one. This 9 bought and sold by other companies such as Colt 9 particular one I believe I can read it and it says 10 Industries and Coltec; is that correct? 10 "1977." It says "8/3/77" which I believe to mean 11 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 11 that it is a 1977 document. 12 A. Garlock has been acquired first by Colt 12 Q. If you look on the bottom right, there 13 Industries which became Coltec which became BF 13 is some Bates numbering. It says "GAR 24" -- 14 Goodrich which became Goodrich which is now EnPro. 14 A. It is GAR 0248, 0249, and 0250 and 0251. 15 Q. And they created divisions and split 15 Q. So that is one catalog? 16 product lines off through the years without getting 16 A. I believe that is correct. 17 too technical about it? 17 Q. And then the pages after that are from 18 A. Well, I don't know the corporate 18 something else, you believe? 19 structure prior to my employment specifically. 19 A. Well, either that or perhaps the pages 20 Q. All right. Anyway, Garlock 10 has no 21 asbestos-containing materials in it? 20 are out of order but I do believe it is from 21 something else because there appears to be a date 22 A. I would need to look at it. 22 here but I can't read it very well. I believe it 23 Q. The date on 10 first was 1990, correct? 23 says "9/77" and I would put that as a 1977 if that's 24 A. Yes, sir. 24 correct. 25 Q. And it's basically a Teflon product line 25 Q. I am going to hand you a 16 A to put on Page 26 Page 28 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 catalog? 2 that page. And then is there -- what is the second 3 A. I don't believe it contains any asbestos 3 page behind that? 4 products, no. 4 A. 0253 and that is the page I am looking 5 Q. And PTFE is an abbreviation for the 5 at that allows me to identify the date. 6 chemical name of what is also commonly known as 6 Q. I will put a 16 B on that one so it is 7 Teflon? 7 clear. 8 A. Yes, polytetrafluorethylene. 8 Garlock 17, same thing, in your opinion 9 Q. Can we call it Teflon to keep it easy 9 to a reasonable probability, when is that from? I L0 today? 10 think the cover probably gives a huge hint. 11 A. Yes. 11 A. So far I looked where I would normally 12 Q. Let me hand you next what has been 12 look, which is the very last page of the document, 13 marked as number 11. 13 and I do not see any information as to date. 14 A. I can read the legend information and 14 However, the front of the catalog says "A Guide to 15 this catalog is dated 1991. 15 Asbestos-Free Sealing Products for the '90s." 16 Q. Okay. Handing you what has been marked 16 Q. All right. Does the last page say 17 as Exhibit 13. 17 something about Colt Industries or Coltec on it, 18 A. There is just a very small portion of 18 have their company logo and look in the bottom left? 19 the date information. It appears to be '89 and this 19 A. It says "Coltec Industries." 20 is a carbon fiber non-asbestos gasketing introduced 20 Q. And what period does that -- when did 21 in the late '80s, so I believe it is 1989. 22 Q. Number 14. 21 Coltec own the Garlock product line or name? 22 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 23 A. This catalog I can read the date 23 A. I have lost track of that from a date 24 information. It would appear to be 1989. 24 standpoint but Colt Industries was taken as a 25 Q. Showing you what has been marked as 25 private company and then eventually became public 7 (Pages 25 to 28) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 41 Page 43 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 that product line came into existence, the GYLON? 2 A. This doesn't look like a catalog, it 3 A. No, that product line came into 3 looks more like something maybe that was produced as 4 existence in the 1960s. 4 a sales aid. There is no date I can read. It does 5 Q. Okay. I hand you number 27. GYLON did 5 say "Colt Industries" on it and it does on the front 6 not contain asbestos, did it? 6 say "Blue-Gard" and then it talks about that and 7 A. No, sir. The document is marked 7 Blue-Gard was introduced in 1980 but beyond that I 8 "11/78." 8 can't tell you. 9 Q. Handing you number 28, another GYLON 9 Q. So just 1980 or after or post 1980s -- L0 catalog. 10 that was 1980 or after, number 32; is that correct? 11 A. I believe it says "1/81." 11 A. Yes, Blue-Gard was introduced in 1980 12 Q. Okay. 12 but it is before -- it is before Coltec Industries, 13 A. That is correct. 13 so that is somewhere in the 1980s. 14 Q. I hand you number 29. It says that is 14 Q. Explain to me what that is used for, 15 for asbestos-free Blue-Gard; is that correct? 15 it's not a catalog, it is like what the salesmen 16 A. It says "Garlock Blue-Gard compressed 16 would have? 17 non-asbestos gasketing" and it would appear to say 17 A. I don't recall ever having seen it but 18 "8/84." 19 Q. I hand you number 30. When is that 18 it certainly looks like it has features, benefits 19 and proofs, so I think it is something that was 20 from? 20 likely provided to a salesman or to perhaps a 21 A. It appears to be marked "1/81." 21 distributor that they would -- would be used to 22 Q. That was for another asbestos-free 22 educate them about the product. 23 Blue-Gard? 23 Q. Okay. Hand you number 33. 24 A. Yes, sir. 24 A. That would appear to say "10/93." 25 Q. Handing you number 31. Appears to be 25 Q. And number 34? Page 42 Page 44 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 another asbestos-free Blue-Gard catalog or insert, 2 A. I think it says "8/93" and I will avoid 3 correct? 3 guessing, this is a compressed carbon fiber 4 A. I believe it is a catalog or a brochure. 4 gasketing called HTC and I know that the first of 5 Q. These are like product line brochures 6 that go into a compiled catalog like a suite catalog 5 the carbon fiber packings were introduced in the 6 late 1980s. I believe this is 1993. 7 or something or those types of thing? 7 Q. Okay. Number 35. 8 A. Well, it is what I would call a 9 stand-alone catalog. It doesn't address all the 8 A. This would also appear to be from 1993. 9 It is difficult to read but it also -- it is a 10 products that Garlock manufactures, it is focusing 10 graphite fiber packing and again those were 11 on a particular product and it looks like it says 11 introduced about the same time frame, so I believe 12 "9/85." 12 it says "8/93." 13 Q. Do you see those hole punchings on the 13 Q. Hand you number 36. 14 left that looks like school paper hole punch. That 14 A. It would appear to say "6/87." 15 is where they have what are known as jobber 15 Q. Hand you number 37. 16 catalogs, like auto parts stores and they have those 16 A. It is hard to read but I think it says 17 big things that are used to put catalogs on the 18 counter by company or product line, these are kind 17 "4" -- there is no backslash legible, "'81" and the 18 document does say "asbestos-free Sealing products 19 of inserts that go into those big jobber catalogs? 19 for the '80s." 20 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 20 Q. Okay. 21 Q. That could go into those jobber-type 21 A. So I believe it is 1981, if I read this 22 catalogs? 23 A. That is one potential use the customer 22 correctly. 23 Q. Okay. Number 38. 24 could make of them, yes. 24 A. Well, there is no date to read. 25 Q. Handing you number 32. 25 Q. Again looking at the product lines, 11 (Pages 41 to 44) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 45 Page 47 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 artwork, style of it, does that allow you to narrow 2 this but there is a lot of changes. 3 it down into a time period? 3 Q. But back up a page. Go to that second 4 A. I wouldn't rely on the -- artwork 4 page, bottom of second page. 5 wouldn't help me much. But style 98 and style 5000 5 A. Oh, October, 1974. 6 are the first braided carbon packings in the 6 Q. Does that help? 7 industry introduced by Garlock in about 1975 are in 7 A. It does. 8 here, so I would say that it would be sometime after 8 Q. This is something where if your 9 1975. 9 distributor or sales rep or technical people inside 10 Q. Let's just put "post '75" on it. 10 get a call from a person in the field saying "I am 11 A. (The witness complied.) 11 using a Mansville number 123, what can I use for 12 Q. I hand you Garlock 39. While you are 12 Garlock," they look it up in this and say "Oh, you 13 looking at it, explain what this is, it's a little 13 need a Garlock number ABC"? 14 different than the other things we have been going 14 A. It would certainly be used -- I have 15 through. It says "interchange list"; what is 15 used it myself -- to understand what the product is. 16 "interchange list"? 16 Depending on the application, especially if you were 17 A. An interchange list would be a document 18 generally used by Inside Sales or Customer Service 17 dealing with a technical person, they might not go 18 so far to say "If you are using this, you can use 19 people but not exclusively by them. It would be 19 this." They might want additional information. 20 used by someone potentially -- well, certainly 20 Certainly it would allow us to understand this is 21 within Garlock, potentially outside Garlock, when 21 the type of product currently being offered and we 22 they received a question -- read a specification 22 have an equivalent type product. 23 that had a competitive product in it, it would allow 23 Q. Let's say I am currently using Mansville 24 them to generally understand if Garlock had an equal 24 whatever, number 123, and your client might ask him 25 to or superior product. So it shows the competitive 25 for a little extra info? Page 46 Page 48 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 style number on the first column on the left 2 A. Possibly, yes. 3 followed by the Garlock nearest or service equal and 3 Q. It gives them a quick yardstick to get 4 probably at each page it has an asterisk after 4 them in the zone? 5 service which says "service equal or standard 5 A. It should get them in this same ball 6 superior product." 6 park. 7 Q. It would be kind of like saying the 7 Q. I am handing you Exhibit No. 40. This 8 customer has -- let's use pickups as an example. 8 would appear to be one of the older Garlock 9 Let's say I have a Chevy 1500 pickup and you are the 9 catalogs, wouldn't it? 10 Ford salesman saying "If you want to buy my product, 10 A. Well, I can't -- this would be one where 11 you would buy a Ford F-150," kind of roughly what 11 it appears as though the information relative to the 12 this is? 12 date is on the very -- I don't know if this is the 13 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 13 front page, I suspect it's the inside page, but I 14 A. I think the fact that it would be used 14 don't know that. I can't pick up the date. But I 15 to attempt to understand what the competitive 15 would generally say it's an older one, that is 16 product was and what a similar if not better Garlock 16 correct. 17 product would be is relevant. I can't -- 17 Q. Put it this way, pre '70s, using that as 18 Q. If you are the Ford salesman, you think 18 a dividing line? 19 naturally the Ford is better than the Chevy but it 19 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 20 shows a roughly equal type of products for that 20 A. Well, I don't believe it was produced 21 function? 21 during the time that I have worked for the company. 22 A. Yes, because it also provides a 22 Q. Yes, that is what I am saying, we can 23 description of our product, so that if there is a 23 safely say pre '70s, maybe whether it is 10 years, 24 question, you can see clearly what we are saying our 24 20 years earlier hard to know but you can say 25 equivalent is. I don't see any date anywhere on 25 definitely before you showed up; is that fair 12 (Pages 45 to 48) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 49 Page 51 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 enough? 2 A. No. 3 A. Yes, I believe that is fair. 3 Q. How about the catalogs, is there a 4 Q. I am looking, there is a copyright thing 4 library or repository where the old catalogs are 5 on the front. My glasses are so-so. See if you can 5 kept? 6 take a second to look. I can see a 9 on there, 6 A. Not really. There is the Advertising 7 can't tell if it is a 3 or 4 -- 3, 4 or 5, does that 7 Department keeps much of the old photography that 8 look? 8 was used but there is no one area that I am aware of 9 A. Well, I can't read it. That is the 9 that is a repository for the catalogs beyond the L0 whole point but I believe the third digit in is a 3. 10 documents that have been retained as part of 11 Q. A 3? 11 asbestos litigation and how complete they are, I 12 A. But that is all I can tell you. 12 don't know. 13 Q. Okay. Let me ask you about this little 13 Q. So if we went to the world headquarters 14 logo on the top. That is a logo the company used to 14 in Palmyra, do they have just like a -- in the CEO's 15 use in decades past, correct? 15 office or area something like a bookshelf that might 16 A. Yes. 16 have all that in? 17 Q. Was the founder of the company 17 A. No, sir. 18 originally a mason or affiliated with the masons in 18 (There was a pause in the proceeding.) 19 some way? 19 Q. Let me ask the last question. To your 20 A. I don't know. It is very similar to the 20 knowledge, if we went say like to the world 21 masons but it's not identical. They have the -- the 21 headquarters in Palmyra, is there anyplace, maybe it 22 protractor has straight ends, not curved ends. I 22 is not a formal library but like the CEO having in 23 don't know. 23 his office all the old catalogs or things like that? 24 Q. Okay. Do you know the origin of that 24 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 25 symbol or -- 25 Q. Go ahead. Page 50 Page 52 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 A. It was a trademark and the logo I think 2 A. Not that I have ever seen, no, sir. 3 that went with that was the standard packing of the 3 Q. Is there -- do you know if there is a 4 world. 4 place where they keep old product samples or 5 Q. Okay. Is there anybody -- and this is 5 specimens, the company does, like in its lab or 6 in no way disrespectful to you, I assure you, but is 6 testing areas or anything like that? 7 there anybody who is older that is still alive with 7 A. Not that I am aware of, no. 8 the company that goes back into that '50s era or 8 Q. I guess backing up to the last one, 9 earlier? 9 number 40, you said the symbol, the caliper and 10 A. I don't think so. 10 ruler symbol, was phased out in 1968? 11 Q. Do you know if there are any documents 11 A. It was no longer branded on our material 12 or memos discussing how the original logos and 12 after 1968 with the exception of a product called 13 artwork of the company came about or history of the 13 the vegetable fiber or cork fiber. But all of the 14 company? 14 standard gasketing material, that caliper and ruler 15 A. Well, there has been documents produced 15 would have been on the sheet up until 1968 or 16 over the years that as a portion of that document 16 through 1968, I believe. 17 may discuss some element of the company's history. 17 Q. Why did they continue using it on that 18 I don't know if there is any document that would 18 one product line? 19 ever have talked about the first time a caliper and 19 A. I don't know. 20 ruler would have been used. I know it was branded 20 Q. Okay. Let me hand you number 41. 21 on our product and I know it was no longer branded 21 A. Well, I have seen this catalog before. 22 after 1968 but I don't really have any knowledge 22 There is no date anywhere that I can see. Maybe 23 beyond that. 23 that is what this is supposed to be here 24 Q. Okay. Is there like a document library 24 (indicating), that is not legible but it certainly 25 or repository the company keeps? 25 is a catalog that I have seen in the past but I 13 (Pages 49 to 52) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 53 Page 55 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 can't tell you when it was produced. 2 think that may be a separate document. This looks 3 Q. It has the caliper and ruler symbol on 3 like actually a -- the reason for that -- 4 the front, correct? 4 Q. That is why I have the blue paper 5 A. It does. 5 dividers in there. 6 Q. So 1968 or earlier? 6 A. Well, this one obviously has something 7 A. No. The caliper and ruler was 7 here (indicating). I wish I had a magnifying glass. 8 discontinued as far as branding it on the product. 8 I can't read it. It appears to be an older catalog 9 I don't have any knowledge as to when the caliper 9 simply from the look but I don't know -- L0 and ruler might have been used or not used on the 10 Q. Just from the style of it, you are 11 literature. For instance, we are using it again 11 saying, it has the caliper and ruler with diamond 12 now, so I don't know. 12 logo on it still, correct? 13 Q. You have resumed using that logo, that 13 A. It does. I guess that is supposed to be 14 caliper and ruler logo? 14 a diamond (indicating). But I am just trying to see 15 A. On some items. I don't know whether it 15 if it has any compressed non-asbestos gasketing 16 has made its way into the literature or not. 16 material and it does not, so that is probably the 17 Q. And do you know why the decision was 17 best I can tell you. 18 made to resume using the caliper and ruler? 18 Q. So what time period would that narrow it 19 A. No. 19 down to? 20 Q. Is it the identical logo or has it been 20 A. Compressed non-asbestos sheet was 21 changed for current use? 21 introduced in 1980 so I would say it is pre 1980 but 22 A. I don't know. 22 I don't know beyond that. 23 Q. I am asking like if you have seen the 23 Q. Okay. Number 43? 24 product, does it look like that one or is it... 24 A. There is three pages here, 25 A. Well, this is a reproduction obviously 25 Bates 05980599 and 0600. As to whether they are all Page 54 Page 56 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 on a copy. It certainly attempts to -- it attempts 2 the same document or not, I can't tell you. The 3 to look the same as the old caliper and ruler but I 3 first two pages, the 0598 and 0599 would appear to 4 have not been involved in any of the design or the 4 be, then there is a sheet that says "Compressed 5 use of it. 5 Asbestos Gasket Specification Sheet, January 1979," 6 Q. Does it have that little diamond in the 6 so clearly this document which is Bates 0600 is from 7 center of the caliper and ruler? 7 1979. There is no -- 8 A. I don't know. 8 Q. We'll put a "43.1" on the first two 9 Q. You just don't recall off the cuff? 9 pages. 10 A. No. 10 A. There is no way for me to tell what the 11 Q. If I went to the store and bought a 11 date of this -- that document is. 12 Garlock product today, would it be stamped with 12 Q. 43.1 which is -- what are the Bates 13 that? 13 numbers? 14 A. No, I don't think so. 14 A. 0598 and 0599. 15 Q. What is it being used on currently? 15 Q. So that you cannot estimate the date of. 16 A. I believe I have seen it on, for 16 And I will hand you 43.2. 17 instance, if our salesmen achieve their budget, they 17 A. And that one clearly shows on the front 18 have an award that they receive, I believe it has 18 January 1979. 19 been used there. I believe I have seen it used in 19 Q. And that is Garlock 0600 Bates number, 20 certain documents for meetings and so forth but I 20 correct? 21 don't recall seeing it -- I don't recall seeing it 21 A. Yes, sir. 22 on any product. 22 Q. I hand you number 44. 23 Q. Okay. Hand you number 42. 23 A. This document which goes from Bates 0601 24 A. I think this very last page which I 24 to 0612, I cannot read the date on it but I am going 25 looked at to see if I could come up with a date, I 25 to look through to see if there is any products I 14 (Pages 53 to 56) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 57 Page 59 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 can recognize. 2 Q. I hand you number 46. 3 Q. Okay. 3 A. Once again, there is no date I can read 4 A. The document says "A product survey for 4 but I can clearly see it says "Colt Industries." It 5 the power generation industry" and it lists a 5 would appear to be similar to the documents that we 6 variety of products and then it would appear later 6 looked at earlier, a product survey for the primary 7 in the document attempts to show within 7 metals industry. It doesn't have -- I don't believe 8 hydroelectric fossil fuel or nuclear what products 8 it has Synthepak in there. I don't believe if I 9 might be appropriate. 9 have looked properly that it has Synthepak but it 10 On Bates 0607, there is a product called 10 has many of the other styles but that might be 11 Thermo-Sil and Thermo-Ceram, those products were 11 because of the industry, I don't know. 12 both introduced in the late 1970s. The same is true 12 Q. Okay. So late '70s would be a 13 for Garlock style 5200 which was a Kevlar product. 13 reasonable time? 14 That also was introduced for the first time in the 14 A. It has Thermo-Ceram and Thermo-Seal in 15 '70s. Paper pack 5000 is in here, that was first 15 there and they were introduced in the late '70s, so 16 introduced in 1975 but I can't read the date on this 16 it would be post 1979. 17 document. 17 Q. Okay. 18 Q. It has "Colt Industries" stamped on it, 18 A. Perhaps I should put a question mark on 19 also? 19 that because it might actually be a few years 20 A. It does. 20 earlier than that. 21 Q. So we can say '76 or post '76 is about 21 Q. I am handing it back to you. 22 as much as we can narrow that one down? 22 A. (The witness complied.) 23 A. I would agree with that. 23 Q. Somewhere in the late '70s? 24 MR. HARRIS: Counsel, it is noon. Do 24 A. Yes. 25 you want to wait until 12:30 or so to take a lunch 25 Q. I hand you number 47. This is a Page 58 Page 60 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 break? 2 chemical industry catalog where it says "Garlock 3 MR. MUNDY: I will let Mr. Heffron call 3 serves the process, chemical process industries"? 4 it. 4 A. Yes, sir. And the Bates number is very 5 THE WITNESS: I am fine. 5 nicely stamped right over the information that I 6 Q. I have just handed you number 45. 6 would normally look at. 7 A. This says "A product survey for the 7 Q. The Garlock Bates number? 8 water and waste industry." It has a very similar 8 A. I am sorry, the information I normally 9 look to the one that we just had on power 9 look at that helps me identify what year it was. 10 generation. Looking at the back page, however, 10 Q. Has the GAR Bates number stamped over 11 which I assume is the appropriate place to look, I 11 it? 12 do not see -- I can't read -- actually, I can't even 12 A. I don't know whether or not it would 13 see. That might be where the date was going to be. 13 have been legible prior to that but that is 14 Actually it could be over here but it is not 14 certainly interfering with my ability. 15 legible. 15 Q. My question is there is two Bates 16 Q. It has the Colt logo stamped on the back 16 numbers, you are pointing at the one that says "GAR" 17 page again? 17 on it? 18 A. It does. 18 A. I am, yes, sir. Well, it has got 19 Q. Is that the same Colt company that made 19 "Garlock 510 enamel" on there which was a paint 20 Colt pistols, Colt AR 15s, that type thing? 20 product offered by Garlock, I don't recall when that 21 A. It was at one time, yes. On Bates 0622, 21 product was discontinued. It was available in the 22 it shows Synthepak and again I was the marketing 22 '70s, I know that. GARFITE 100 was introduced in 23 manager when we introduced Synthepak which was in 23 1968 but that only means that it was after that time 24 1980, so I can't read the dates but based on that, I 24 frame, so it also shows warehouses and lists Garlock 25 would say this is post 1980. 25 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. That location was 15 (Pages 57 to 60) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 61 Page 63 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 shut down in the middle 1970s. 2 don't know if there is really such a thing -- but 3 Q. Is this the early '70s? 3 Houston Gasket Company would have its own owners, 4 A. I don't know that. I would say it is 4 its own business, you would sell to them as a 5 pre 1976. I don't know if I can say anything more 5 wholesale-type transaction, they in turn would make 6 than that. 6 the sale to the person buying it for use? 7 Q. Okay. Here they have changed what I'll 7 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 8 call the artwork or the logo, the Garlock name on 8 A. That is correct. That is essentially 9 the back page, it has got a G with the big 9 how a distributor functioned. L0 diamond-like thing in the center of it? 10 Q. Okay. Do you know or have you made any 11 A. It is an older way of showing Garlock. 11 inquiries as to who the distributors were that would 12 I don't know when it began and when it ended. I 12 have been selling to the Union Carbide facility in 13 didn't work in the Advertising Department. 13 Brownsville? 14 Q. It's after the period of the caliper and 14 A. Yes. 15 ruler, you can say that, this is the style of 15 Q. Who would that be? 16 artwork that came after that time period? 16 A. When you say "distributors," 17 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 17 distributors, I am handling that term in a general 18 A. I don't know if I can say that or not. 18 sense. 19 It would certainly appear to be pre 1976. 19 Q. Okay. 20 Q. Okay. Number 48. Let me ask, can we 20 A. There are people who are in the business 21 back up for 1 second. I want to ask a question. We 21 of distribution, some are authorized Garlock 22 are going back to number 47. It talks about the 22 distributors and some are not. For instance, the 23 distribution network and as I understand it, there 23 Union Carbide plant in Brownsville was being 24 was a particular year where Garlock essentially 24 serviced in 1979 by Corpus Christi Gasket. Corpus 25 changed the way it marketed its products to 25 Christi Gasket was not a Garlock distributor in 1979 Page 62 Page 64 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 customers and created a group of independent 2 but in my research to determine who may have sold 3 distributors, that is other companies that bought 3 product to Union Carbide in Brownsville, that is the 4 products and you sold to the distributor, then they 4 information I came up with. Both that Corpus 5 would resell it as a retail sale beyond that, as a 5 Christi Gasket was selling to them and they were not 6 general rule; is that correct? 6 a Garlock distributor, they were signed as a Garlock 7 A. Well, we didn't create the company. 7 distributor in the early 1980s. 8 Q. No? 8 Q. Do you know who supplied gaskets to the 9 A. But in the late 1960s, Garlock began to 9 Union Carbide Brownsville facility in the 1960s and 10 sell through industrial distribution. 10 early 1970s? 11 Q. Prior to that time, you had your own 11 A. I don't. 12 sales offices and would do end sales directly to a 12 Q. Same question for the -- this is a 13 user? 13 little confusing so let me say it all out, there is 14 A. Yes. Some of the sales offices might 14 a company called El Paso or by the workers El Paso, 15 have continued after we began to sell through 15 whether it is El Paso Products, El Paso Natural Gas 16 distribution but it was in the late 1960s when we 16 Products -- in earlier years, it was El Paso Natural 17 began to sign up the first of the Garlock 17 Gas Products also known as El Paso just 18 distributors. It is my understanding that that is a 18 colloquially, locally there, so I am talking about 19 process that took several years. By the time I 19 the El Paso Products facility that is located in the 20 started the company in 1972, all maintenance and 20 Town of Odessa. It is kind of like a tongue 21 repair products were being sold through 21 twister. Even you are smiling on this one. You 22 distribution, not direct by Garlock any longer. 22 understand the company El Paso Products had a 23 Q. And so these are companies that are 23 facility in the Town of Odessa, Texas; you 24 totally independent of the like Houston Gasket 24 understand that? 25 Company which would be a name I am making up -- I 25 A. I do. 16 (Pages 61 to 64) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 65 Page 67 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 Q. Do you know who supplied gasket material 2 Houston area? 3 to the El Paso Products facility in Odessa, Texas 3 A. If they choose to compare price and that 4 from the say 1964 to 1974 time period? 4 is their only decision but they are free to buy. 5 A. Well, I believe that would have been -- 5 Q. From whoever? 6 that was in fact the time frame in which Garlock was 6 A. From whoever, yes. 7 selling direct and I believe Garlock may have sold 7 Q. That is the reason why some companies 8 products to what we'll call El Paso Products in that 8 have distribution agreement where product can only 9 time frame. 9 be purchased or sold through a particular 10 Q. That would have been a direct sales as 10 distributor in a geographic area, what is known as 11 opposed to through a distributor? 11 an exclusive sales agreement, correct? 12 A. Yes. 12 A. That is certainly my experience, yes, 13 Q. Do you know when Garlock first had 13 sir. 14 distributors in the Odessa, Midland area? 14 Q. For the time period in the '60s and 15 A. In 1969. 15 '70s, Garlock did not utilize the exclusive sales 16 Q. Do you know who those were? 16 territories; is that correct? 17 A. In 1969, Gasket Services was signed as 17 A. That is true as well. 18 the first Garlock distributor in that part of the 18 Q. Has that always been true? 19 country. 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. And did they have an exclusive 20 Q. Did Garlock continue to make direct 21 territory, that is did they have the exclusive right 21 sales on its own into the field after the 22 to sell your product in that region? 22 distributors were created? 23 A. Garlock has never to my knowledge at 23 A. Well, Garlock -- the two markets that I 24 least had exclusive distribution. I think from a 24 mentioned earlier were the maintenance and repair or 25 practical standpoint when it first began to sign 25 often referred to as MRO and then the original Page 66 Page 68 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 distributors, by virtue of the fact that is a 2 equipment manufacturers which are often referred to 3 process, there may have been a period of time in 3 as OEM, Garlock has always maintained a direct sales 4 which a distributor was the only distributor signed 4 to people who use our product in the construction of 5 in that general geographic area but the Garlock 5 their product, an OEM. But for the maintenance and 6 distributor contract is a non-exclusive contract. 6 repair, although there could probably be rare 7 They can sell product where they wish and we have 7 exceptions, since the late 1960s, the sales for 8 generally multiple distribution. 8 maintenance and repair products has been done 9 Q. So if say a distributor in Houston could 9 exclusively through distribution, not to be confused 10 quote a lower price, they would be allowed to sell 10 with the earlier use of exclusivity. 11 into that region? 11 Q. So to make sure I understand it, for 12 A. I don't know if the lower price has -- 12 example, if Garlock is supplying packing material to 13 certainly a distributor is free to quote where they 13 a valve manufacturer, you all would keep that 14 choose. They are not restricted by Garlock. From a 14 account -- it is kind of a large bulk-type account? 15 practical standpoint, most people have a sphere of 15 A. We might. We reserve the right to sell 16 influence is generally what it is referred to. So 16 to original equipment manufacturers. Depending on 17 they tend to work or cover a certain area but the 17 the customer, the relationship that they have with 18 agreement between Garlock and its distributor is 18 the distributor and the geographic area that we are 19 it's non-exclusive and they are able to sell product 19 talking about in the United States, many 20 wherever they can. 20 distributors also sell to OEM accounts but Garlock 21 Q. To use our car example, it is like if 21 maintains in its contract the right to sell on a 22 you are the Ford dealer with your pickup, at their 22 direct basis to original equipment. 23 multiple dealers in the Houston area, the customer 23 Q. Let me ask you a few questions along 24 can go around and price compare between the dealers 24 this line and please exclude from the question and 25 and is free to buy from whoever they want in the 25 answer any current business practice, I don't want 17 (Pages 65 to 68) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 69 Page 71 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 to inquire about your current marketing or sales 2 Fluer Daniels and works with them to attempt to get 3 information, anything that would be proprietary, so 3 Garlock specified into the projects, the 4 please understand I have no interest in that. I am 4 construction projects they are working on. Gordon's 5 talking about more historic mid '70s and earlier 5 tenure with Garlock is 40 plus years and he was -- 6 periods, so with that qualifier on it, would Garlock 6 he was the individual that signed Gasket Services in 7 do anything that would say give a price advantage to 7 1969. That is my understanding. And may we take a 8 the customer buying through the distributor as 8 break. 9 opposed to you directly, that is like you have full 9 (The proceeding recessed at 12:20 p.m.) 10 retail and the distributor might quote a little 10 (The proceeding reconvened at 2:19 p.m.; 11 lower price so it would kind of encourage the folks 11 appearances as before noted.) 12 to go to the distributor rather than direct sell to 12 JAMES HEFFRON, resumes; 13 you? 13 EXAMINATION BY MR. MUNDY CONTINUING: 14 A. Well, my time with Garlock started in 14 Q. Mr. Heffron, this is Jeff Mundy and 15 1972. By then they were selling through 15 Garlock's lawyer, you and I worked out an agreement 16 distribution. It is my understanding that Garlock 16 where we have been off the record for a while and 17 had a tiered price list that it used prior to 17 you went through the entire stack of the catalogs; 18 selling through distribution where the size of the 18 is that true? 19 account was at least one of the factors in terms of 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 the pricing. But once we began to sell through 20 Q. And you continued to use the same 21 distribution, I don't believe there was any -- I 21 process that we were doing on the record but there 22 don't know what relationship if any existed between 22 was no reason to keep on videotaping, so, for 23 the pricing that was in effect before that or after 23 Exhibits 47 through number 110 you continued 24 that but we as a matter of practice didn't sell the 24 utilizing the same process which is looking at the 25 maintenance products directly after it began signed 25 document and if you could discern the date, you Page 70 Page 72 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 distribution. 3 Q. So effectively, there may be a rare 2 wrote the date on the front or the best you could do 3 with it, for example, like on number 47, you say, 4 exception, but effectively you could say once the 4 "pre 1976" or some of them you might have put "post 5 distributors were in place, they would have handled 5 1980" but you used the same basic process; is that 6 the orders from the field customer? 6 correct? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. Okay. And so the first one in the 7 A. That is correct. 8 Q. And the handwriting on each of the 9 Odessa, Midland area was Gasket Services Company? 9 exhibits is your own handwriting with your opinion 10 A. Yes, sir. 11 Q. Was that located in Odessa? 10 about in a reasonable probability the date of the 11 particular number of catalog, correct? 12 A. Yes, sir. 12 A. That is correct. 13 Q. And when was the next distributor added 13 Q. So Mr. Heffron, just to make clear, 14 in that area? 14 there were two or three things in this collection 15 A. I don't know. I didn't ask that 15 that was produced to us that were not truly catalogs 16 question. 16 but like, for example, there was some publication of 17 Q. Okay. Who did you obtain that 17 the Fluid Sealing Association? 18 information from? 18 A. That is correct. 19 A. Gordon Baker. 20 Q. Who is Gordon Baker? 19 Q. And you used the same process I think on 20 those, actually, you could not determine the date; 21 A. Gordon Baker is a long time Garlock 21 is that correct? 22 employee. I am not certain of his specific title 22 A. That is correct. 23 these days but I can tell you that he calls on 23 MR. MUNDY: Counsel, does that fairly 24 engineering and design firms or engineering and 24 and accurately state what we have done off the 25 construction firms. People like Jacobs Engineering, 25 record in your opinion? 18 (Pages 69 to 72) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 73 Page 75 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 MR. HARRIS: I don't -- 2 litigations. Specific questions that are asked, I 3 MR. MUNDY: That is not a trick 3 often refer to other catalogs or brochures and there 4 question. 4 are a couple of catalogs that I have reviewed. I 5 MR. HARRIS: I understand that is not a 5 read portions of depositions that were provided by 6 trick question. My sense is that is right but let 6 co-workers and so forth in both Whetsell and Weikel. 7 Mr. Heffron confirm that for you. 7 For instance, I remember a Mr. Slaughter, a Mr. 8 Q. Mr. Heffron, is that a fair and accurate 8 Bowling, Mr. Weikel. 9 description of what we have done off the record in 9 In addition to that, of course I would L0 these catalogs so we don't have to go through one by 10 read the deposition notice and review the standard 11 one, that you have gone through the process and 11 Answers to Interrogatories that were submitted. I 12 these all appeared to be authentic copies of Garlock 12 think that would generally constitute what my 13 catalogs and you have handwritten on the front the 13 preparation would be for this case. 14 date you believe in your opinion based on your 14 I am sorry, you asked me questions 15 experience and knowledge with the company and 15 earlier and the deposition notice states 16 looking at the documents that in reasonable 16 specifically our knowledge as to the potential 17 probability would be the date. And if you couldn't 17 Garlock sales to locations and as I mentioned 18 make an estimation, you didn't put it on there; is 18 earlier, I did talk to two current Garlock 19 that fair? 19 employees, one of them Gordon Baker who has 20 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 20 knowledge about the West Texas area and Al Vargas. 21 Q. Okay, go ahead. 21 Q. Al? 22 A. That is correct. 22 A. Al. 23 MR. MUNDY: Let's go off the record and 23 Q. A-l? 24 we'll put these in a box and get them off the table. 24 A. Yes. 25 (The proceeding recessed at 2:24 p.m.) 25 Q. Sorry, that is New York versus Texas. Page 74 Page 76 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 (The proceeding reconvened at 2:28 p.m.; 2 What is the last name? 3 appearances as before noted.) 3 A. Vargas, V-a-r-g-a-s, I believe. 4 JAMES HEFFRON, resumes; 4 Q. He was for South Texas? 5 EXAMINATION BY MR. MUNDY CONTINUING: 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Mr. Heffron, we have cleared all that 6 Q. And what else if anything did you do to 7 stuff off the table. Let's talk about the specific 7 prepare? 8 cases for a little while and kind of get into the 8 A. I don't recall anything else. 9 heart of the matter. Let me ask first, are you 9 Q. I am just going to go down that list in 10 planning on appearing as a witness in the Whetsell 10 a little more detail. You said you reviewed some 11 trial? 11 documents and catalogs; which catalogs did you 12 A. I don't know. 12 review? 13 Q. How about the Weikel trial, are you 13 A. Probably some of the ones that I have 14 planning on appearing as a witness in that case? 14 just looked through to authenticate. I didn't make 15 A. I don't know. 15 any attempt to remember specifically what ones but I 16 Q. What have you done to prepare for 16 am certain -- well, I think it is likely that they 17 today's deposition? 17 may have been some of the catalogs that we just 18 A. Well, some of the preparation that I 18 looked at. 19 have done in the past I would say qualifies also for 19 Q. Okay. Let me ask kind of a lay 20 preparation for today's deposition in that many of 20 question, was there a catalog that you reviewed that 21 the catalogs and documents that are typically 21 was not in the stack that we just went through? 22 produced at a trial or deposition are documents that 22 A. It's hard to tell because the quality of 23 I am familiar with from my earliest employment with 23 those copies is not very good and it doesn't have -- 24 the company or as a result of acting as the 24 if they were in color, I would often be able to tell 25 company's corporate representative in asbestos 25 from the color of the catalog but -- 19 (Pages 73 to 76) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 77 Page 79 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 Q. Was the copy you looked at a color copy 2 A. I have the same problem I have with 3 of catalogs? 3 everything else we looked at where it is often very 4 A. Yes. 4 difficult to read the date. But this would appear 5 Q. Where were those located or are they 5 to be the document I am referring to or if it in 6 located? 6 fact is two documents, and I believe it to be one, 7 A. That was -- I think I looked at least at 7 this is the document I am referring to. 8 one original catalog. I believe that was probably 8 Q. And it has some Garlock Bates numbers on 9 dated in the 1990s. 9 it, correct? L0 Q. Its publication date was 1990s? 10 A. Yes, it says "Garlock 1532" and it ends 11 A. Yes. 11 with "Garlock 1618." 12 Q. Where is that catalog located? 12 MR. MUNDY: I am going to go ahead and 13 A. It was at Garrison Litigation. 13 mark that as 111. 14 Q. Where is that located? 14 (The following exhibit was marked for 15 A. Here in Rochester, New York. 15 identification: Garlock 111.) 16 Q. When did you do that? 16 Q. So Garlock 111 is the one you looked at? 17 A. Yesterday. 17 A. I believe so, yes. 18 Q. Did you see more than one catalog 18 Q. And that was provided to you by 19 yesterday? 19 Garlock's lawyer, not you going and pulling it 20 A. Yes. 20 yourself? 21 Q. Was the catalog given to you by a lawyer 21 A. That is correct, I have seen this 22 or is it something you just went and dug through the 22 document previously but I didn't have this document 23 document repository to find? 23 with me and it was supplied to me by my attorney. 24 A. It was a document that our attorney 24 Q. Do you know or can you determine from 25 brought with him, a catalog that our attorney had 25 looking at the document itself what year that would Page 78 Page 80 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 brought with him. 2 be from, number 111? 3 Q. Mr. Harris? 3 A. As I mentioned, it is difficult to read 4 A. Yes, sir. 4 but I believe it is a 1964 document. 5 Q. Did you see more than one catalog? 5 Q. Was that the one and only catalog 6 A. Oh, I mentioned yes because I looked at 6 available in the year 1964 of Garlock products? 7 a 1990s era catalog and then I looked at a catalog 7 A. I don't know. 8 that I believe to probably be in the 1960s. 8 Q. Do you know when the next subsequent 9 Q. And is that one that was given to you by 9 addition of the Garlock catalog would have come out? L0 a lawyer or one that you pulled from a document 10 A. Well, catalogs if we use that term 11 repository? 11 loosely, catalogs were generally something that was 12 A. That was the catalog copy that I 12 published on no more frequently than an annual 13 referred to that Mr. Harris had brought with him. 13 basis. But as we have seen in some of the older 14 It is a document I have seen previously but it was a 14 catalogs, much of the information, if not all of the 15 document that he had with him. 15 information, from one year to the next would remain 16 Q. Okay. 16 the same or unchanged, so I don't know if any other 17 MR. MUNDY: Is that the one? 17 catalogs or brochures were published in 1964 and I 18 MR. HARRIS: I think it is. 18 think that answers your question. 19 MR. MUNDY: Can you hand it to him. 19 Q. Okay. In the year 1968, would the 20 MR. HARRIS: Let me make sure there are 20 product line be substantially the same as it was in 21 no highlighting or notes. 21 the brochure marked as 111? 22 (There was a pause in the proceeding.) 22 A. Yes. And I think one difference that 23 MR. HARRIS: Check it and make sure it 23 might exist is there was a long period of time in 24 is one document. 24 which Garlock published catalogs that was intended 25 THE WITNESS: Okay. 25 to be very comprehensive, so it would have perhaps 20 (Pages 77 to 80) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 81 Page 83 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 not all but virtually all of the products it offered 2 believe that information has been produced in the 3 would be covered in a catalog such as this. That 3 past that lists distributors in a particular 4 was not always the practice particularly when new 4 geography but there is no -- there is no list I can 5 products were introduced, a catalog or in this case 5 go to that shows where that kind of information is. 6 I would probably call it a brochure might be 6 Q. Has there ever been compiled for 7 produced for that selected new product. I think 7 responding to discovery in a case? 8 your question was would it be substantially 8 A. Yes, I believe that there has been cases 9 unchanged and I think my understanding of the word 9 where for a particular area that was asked about -- 10 "substantially," that is true. 10 let's say Texas, for instance. 11 Q. I am saying there may be some minor 11 Q. Let's just focus on Texas is what I am 12 things but basically it's the same product line at 12 interested in. 13 that point in time? 13 A. I believe I have seen documents that 14 A. They might not be minor. For instance, 14 have been produced that list distributors in the 15 Teflon really began to be popular and promoted in 15 State of Texas. 16 the -- well, starting in the '50s but certainly in 16 Q. Okay. 17 the '60s but I believe Teflon is in this catalog as 17 A. I can't tell you what time frame that 18 well (indicating). 18 was but I recall seeing such a document, at least I 19 Q. And then you mentioned there was a 19 believe so. 20 distributor network starting to be put in place in 20 Q. Okay. Let's stay focused for just a 21 the late 1960s, early 1970s, right? 21 minute on what you did to prepare. Did you look at 22 A. That is correct. 22 any other documents in preparation for this 23 Q. Would the brochures or catalogs or 23 deposition other than the 1990s catalog and that 24 product list, whatever you wish to call them, would 24 1964 catalog? 25 it look like this or would it be different when it 25 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. Page 82 Page 84 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 was given to a distributor? 2 A. If the question is relegated to catalogs 3 A. I don't think it would be any different 3 only -- 4 if a distributor was to use the catalog -- the same 4 Q. No, "documents," I said. 5 catalogs that we produced -- well, I have to back 5 A. As I mentioned, I read portions of 6 up. This is a 1964 catalog and in 1964 we weren't 6 co-workers' depositions, I read portions of a Mr. 7 selling through distribution but as we went forward 7 Slaughter's deposition, portions of a Mr. Weikel's 8 starting in '69 through the early '70s as we added 8 deposition and portions of a Mr. Bowling's 9 distribution, the catalogs that Garlock produced 9 deposition. 10 would be available to both its customers or end 10 Q. Did you read the testimony of Carl 11 users as well as distributors. 12 Q. So the same brochure catalog, whatever 11 Whetsell? 12 A. I don't recall. 13 you wish to call it, would be the same whether you 13 Q. How about Linda Whetsell, did you read 14 give it out to a customer or distributor in the late 14 her testimony? 15 '60s, early '70s? 15 A. I don't believe so. 16 A. That is correct. 16 Q. How about Jim McMahon, did you read his 17 Q. The distributor obviously would get a 17 testimony? 18 price sheet that the customer may not be entitled 18 A. I don't recall. 19 to? 19 Q. You are saying you don't recall reading 20 A. Yes, that normally wouldn't be part of 20 it? 21 the catalog, that would be something separate, yes. 21 A. I am saying I don't recall one way or 22 Q. Do you know if there are any documents 22 the other. It doesn't stick with me, so... 23 that give a list of all the distributors in the 23 Q. Okay. As you sit here today, you have 24 State of Texas in the late '60s or early '70s? 24 no knowledge or memory of what those people have 25 A. I don't know of any such list. I 25 testified to, put it that way? 21 (Pages 81 to 84) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 85 Page 87 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 A. That is correct. 2 specific to Eddie Whetsell's work site, work 3 Q. Have you seen any other documents 3 situation, Garlock products used on his work site, 4 besides the 1990s catalog, the '64 catalog or the 4 things of that nature; is that fair? 5 portions of Ron Slaughter's testimony, Mr. 5 A. That is correct. 6 Weikel's -- which Weikel deposition did you read, 6 Q. Now, I am going to reask the question 7 was it Kerry Weikel? 7 the same way about the Weikel case: Mr. Heffron, 8 A. It would have been the son. 8 you would agree that with respect to the Grover 9 Q. Kerry Weikel? 9 Weikel case, based on your review of Garlock's 10 A. That worked also at the plant with his 10 answers to discovery in Grover Weikel's case, there 11 father. 11 was not anything factually specific in the responses 12 Q. That is Kerry. And then Mr. Bowling's 12 about his work sites, employment or Garlock product 13 deposition? 13 usage specific to his work environment; would that 14 A. Yes. 14 be fair to say? 15 Q. Did you read anything other than those 15 A. I believe that is correct. 16 two catalogs and those three portions of deposition 16 Q. Okay. 17 testimony? 17 MR. MUNDY: I appreciate you saying 18 A. As I mentioned, I read the standard 18 that. 19 Answers to Interrogatories and I read the deposition 19 Q. Other than looking at the 1990 catalog, 20 notice, I think that constitutes everything I read 20 the 1964 catalog, Ron Slaughter's deposition, have 21 for these two cases. 21 you seen anything specific to Eddie Whetsell's work 22 Q. Okay. I have the Answers to 22 site, work exposures, Garlock products at his work 23 Interrogatories with me if you need to refer to 23 site, anything of that nature for the Eddie Whetsell 24 them, I will pull them out and look at them. From 24 case? 25 looking at them yesterday, would you agree from 25 A. I don't know if this would qualify or Page 86 Page 88 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 looking at those Answers to Interrogatories, there 2 not but we did a sales search and Whetsell I believe 3 is nothing that is factually specific to either the 3 is El Paso Products. 4 Whetsell or Weikel work sites or work situations? 4 Q. Correct. 5 A. I didn't read the whole thing but I 5 A. So we did a sales search, a search of 6 believe that is correct, they are standard questions 6 our sales records which are on microfiche and date 7 and they are standard answers, they are not case 7 back to 1974 and we searched to see if we had any 8 specific. 8 sales records to El Paso Products; we did not. 9 MR. HARRIS: Excuse me, Counsel, could 9 Q. Let's stop right there and make sure we 10 we go off the record for a second. 10 are -- we understand what each other is asking and 11 (The proceeding recessed at 2:44 p.m.) 11 saying here. The database you are referring to, 12 (The proceeding reconvened at 2:45 p.m.; 12 first records begin in the year 1974 and then come 13 appearances as before noted.) 13 from 1974 to current times; is that correct? 14 JAMES HEFFRON, resumes; 14 A. That is correct. 15 EXAMINATION BY MR. MUNDY CONTINUING: 15 Q. It does not contain information from 16 Q. Okay. I am going to reask a couple of 16 1974 and further back in time; is that correct? 17 questions. 17 A. That is correct. 18 A. Yes, sir. 18 Q. And then in 1974, Garlock as a general 19 Q. With respect to let's talk about the 19 rule was not making direct sales to the end user of 20 Whetsell case first. 20 the product; is that correct? 21 A. Yes. 21 A. That is correct. 22 Q. Based on your review of Garlock's 22 Q. Do you have an ability to search what 23 answers to discovery in the Eddie Whetsell case, 23 sales went to various distributors from 1974? 24 it's accurate to state that from your review you do 24 A. Yes. Not to who they sold to but sales 25 not remember seeing anything that would be fact 25 to a distributor and you just asked for '74 but they 22 (Pages 85 to 88) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 89 Page 91 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 would be to the current. 2 A. I am not sure. 3 Q. '74 to the current time? 3 Q. I will double-check on the next break. 4 A. Yes. 4 Anyway, you did a search for 1974 for the Odessa 5 Q. You have the ability to search which 5 area distributors? 6 distributors you were making sales to? 6 A. Yes. 7 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. How many distributors were in the 8 Q. Can you narrow that search down for a 8 Odessa, Midland area for 1974? 9 particular product line for distributors in the 9 A. I believe Gasket Services may have been L0 State of Texas; is there the ability to search that 10 the only distributor in the Odessa area. 11 database that way? 11 Q. Okay. And did you locate or were you 12 A. Well, it isn't a search of a database. 12 able to locate the sales records for what was sold 13 I wish it was that sophisticated. For each 13 to Gasket Services in 1974? 14 customer, for each year, there is a -- the sales to 14 A. Yes. 15 that customer for that year are recorded on 15 Q. And did you print those out? 16 microfiche from a computer printout that was 16 A. They -- I didn't print them. They were 17 produced at that time. So each and every item that 17 printed and reviewed, yes. 18 was sold in that year to that customer, in this case 18 MR. MUNDY: And I am going to request 19 a distributor is listed, it shows the item number, 19 counsel for Garlock to produce those to us if you 20 the quantity and the sales dollars. 20 would, please. 21 Q. Okay. So it is really just a manual 21 MR. HARRIS: At the deposition? 22 search of microfilm or microfiche? 22 MR. MUNDY: If they are in Rochester, it 23 A. Yes. It is finding the customer number, 23 would be nice if we can get them over here right 24 it begins with finding whether or not a customer 24 now. If not, maybe we'll come back later. 2 5 number has been assigned and then you look 25 MR. HARRIS: We object to producing Page 90 Page 92 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 numerically through the microfiche until you find 2 distributor information because it is not likely to 3 the number that applies -- that is appropriate for 3 lead to the discovery of admissible evidence. That 4 that customer and then you print out from the 4 is our objection. 5 microfiche those records and then determine by 5 Q. Did your search -- let's limit ourselves 6 reviewing those records obviously whether there were 6 to the years 1974 and '75 because I think that is 7 sales, whether there were asbestos sales or whether 7 the last years Mr. Whetsell was at that work site. 8 there were sales with no asbestos products. 8 I will call but I am pretty certain it is no later 9 Q. Okay. So you have to have a really 9 than 1975. 10 specific request of looking for a particular 10 Did you see any evidence of Garlock 11 customer or distributor and then you can go year by 11 selling asbestos-containing products to Gasket 12 year for that particular person from 1974 until 12 Services in the year 1974 or '75 from that 13 today? 13 information that you did or were able to locate? 14 A. That is correct. If I understood your 14 A. I believe so. 15 question. 15 Q. And is that all contained on like -- is 16 Q. There is no ability to really make a 16 it condensed into just a few pages of what was sold 17 determination one way or another "yes" or "no" 17 to them? 18 whether there were sales to a particular work site 18 A. Each year would be, yes. 19 prior to 1974 from Garlock's historic records? 19 Q. For 1974 it would be a few pages, 1975 20 A. That is correct. 20 would be a few pages? 21 Q. I am trying to think, I think Eddie 21 A. I believe so. 22 Whetsell's last year at that work site was 1974 or 22 Q. And did your review of those records 23 5. I have to double-check that. What is your 23 play any role in you forming -- let me ask that. 24 understanding about the last year of Eddie 24 You reviewed those specifically in preparation for 25 Whetsell's -- 25 this deposition, correct? 23 (Pages 89 to 92) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 93 Page 95 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 A. The information was gathered. I didn't 2 Human Resource records or sales records. There is 3 review it specifically for this, no. 3 probably four or five pages, perhaps 100 different 4 Q. What other reason would you have had to 4 entries, and it would identify how many years prior 5 look for that information other than this case? 5 to the current year those records needed to be 6 A. Well, I believe it was for this case but 6 maintained. I believe in the case of the sales 7 I think your question was whether I reviewed it and 7 records, it would be -- it would be, I am sorry, 8 I didn't necessarily review it but I am aware of the 8 five years. So the document retention policy was 9 fact that the report was run. 9 amended in 1979 to note that any records dealing 10 Q. And some information located? 10 with asbestos needed to be kept permanently. So in 11 A. Yes, sir. 11 1979, the oldest such record for sales would be 1974 12 Q. Are you willing to disclose the contents 12 and so those records are the first year for which 13 of that result? 13 sales records exist. 14 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 14 Q. Let me ask this just kind of real bottom 15 A. Again, I didn't really review it. I 15 line question, then: We sit here today in 2007, can 16 just know a sales search was conducted and that 16 you on behalf of Garlock tell me what was sold or 17 there were sales in those years but I didn't review 17 not sold to the El Paso Products facility in Odessa, 18 those sales. 18 Texas between the years 1964 and 1975? 19 Q. Can you tell me what asbestos-containing 19 A. No, sir, I can't. But we can search for 20 materials were sold by Garlock to Gasket Services, 20 1974 which we did. 21 Inc. in Odessa, Texas in the years 1974 or 1975? 21 Q. But you don't know -- 22 A. No. 22 A. Prior to 1974, there are no records 23 Q. To your knowledge, is there any trade 23 whatsoever to search. 24 secret or proprietary secret information in that 24 Q. And as far as 1974, 1975, that record 25 sales information from 1974 to 1975? 25 has been located or at least a record has been Page 94 Page 96 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 2 located for Gasket Services, Inc., correct? 3 A. The information is simply the products 3 A. That is correct. 4 that were purchased by that customer in that year, 4 Q. It is possible that distributors other 5 so it doesn't contain anything other than sales 5 than Gasket Services, Inc. could have supplied 6 information. 6 products to that work site, is that true, between 7 Q. Okay. And as we sit here right now, you 7 that time period of '64 and '75? 8 cannot tell me what that information was about, what 8 A. I don't know. 9 asbestos-containing products were sold in 1974 or 9 Q. I am saying based on what we talked 10 '75 to Gasket Services in Odessa? 10 about earlier, there is not an exclusive geographic 11 A. That is correct. 11 sales policy so that -- not saying "yes" or "no" but 12 Q. And then the records just simply do not 12 it is possible that say a distributor from another 13 exist for the years prior to 1974 for you to say 14 what was sold in years prior to that; is that fair? 13 area could have sold to that company? 14 A. I don't know. 15 A. That is correct. 15 Q. Did -- I am going to ask you the same 16 Q. Were there ever sales records kept for 16 series of questions about the Weikel work site? 17 sales in the year prior to 1974? 17 A. Yes, sir. 18 A. Yes. 18 Q. With respect to Grover Weikel's work 19 Q. And what became of those records? 19 site at the Union Carbide facility in Brownsville, 20 A. Garlock has had a document retention and 20 Texas, the only sales records that Garlock would 21 destruction policy in place. I don't know when that 21 have in the year 2007 would be records, if any, to 22 policy was first developed but I am familiar with a 22 distributors who may have supplied product to that 23 document -- that document dated 1979 and in such a 23 facility, correct? 24 document it lists the various types of records, for 24 A. That is correct. 25 instance, whether they are accounting records or 25 Q. And you have no way to actually 24 (Pages 93 to 96) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 97 Page 99 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 determine what was or was not sold from the 2 Q. If another worker has testified under 3 distributor to the work site itself? 3 oath that Garlock products were used in the Acid 4 A. That is correct. 4 Unit, the adipic, a-d-i-p-i-c, acid -- 5 Q. The distributors' records don't include 5 (The proceeding recessed at 3:03 p.m.) 6 the end point of sale? 6 (The proceeding reconvened at 3:12 p.m.; 7 A. That is correct. The record is who 7 appearances as before noted.) 8 Garlock sold the product to, it would not include 8 JAMES HEFFRON, resumes; 9 the information of who the distributor may have sold 9 EXAMINATION BY MR. MUNDY CONTINUING: 10 the product to. 10 Q. Mr. Heffron, do you have any 11 Q. Okay. Do you have an opinion in 11 understanding of what Eddie Whetsell's job 12 reasonable probability as to who the distributors 12 responsibilities were while he was at the El Paso 13 were for Garlock products to the Union Carbide 13 Products facility in Odessa? 14 facility in Brownsville, Texas? 14 A. Yes. 15 A. Well, as I mentioned, I contacted Al 15 Q. How did you come to that understanding? 16 Vargas who is in the Corpus Christi area. Al Vargas 16 A. That was through reading Mr. Slaughter's 17 originally worked for Corpus Christi Gasket and he 17 deposition testimony. 18 started with Corpus Christi Gasket in 1979. I 18 Q. You have not seen Jim McMahon's though? 19 didn't know that until I asked him the question 19 A. Not that I recall, no. 20 about the Union Carbide plant in Brownsville. He 20 Q. Let me ask you to assume that Mr. 21 told me that when he went to work for Corpus Christi 21 McMahon worked with Mr. Whetsell and was in fact his 22 Gasket in 1979, the Union Carbide plant in 22 supervisor for a while in later years and that he 23 Brownsville was his customer and that CC Gasket was 23 testified that among other places Mr. Whetsell 24 not an authorized Garlock distributor and did not 24 worked for an extended period in the adipic acid and 25 supply Garlock gasketing to his knowledge to that 25 nitric acid facilities, okay? Page 98 Page 100 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 Union Carbide facility. 2 A. All right. 3 Q. And he started with them in 1979? 3 Q. And that in those units, they used what 4 A. That is correct. 4 he termed a special Garlock type of gasket that was 5 Q. Any idea of who was the distributor in 5 different than what is used in the remainder of the 6 the '60s and early '70s to that facility, do you 6 El Paso facility, okay? 7 have any knowledge, not guess work; do you know who 7 A. If that is the case, then maybe I did 8 was selling gaskets to that work site in the '60s 8 read his deposition as well because I clearly 9 and early '70s? 9 remember some testimony, unless both Mr. Slaughter 10 A. I don't know who was authorized that 10 and Mr. McMahon said that. I remember a specific 11 would have covered that area and I don't know -- 11 reference to a special gasket, I remember reading 12 because of that, I don't know whether they would 12 that. 13 have sold there. 13 Q. Okay. And I think that special gasket, 14 Q. That is what I am asking, I am asking 14 that term was used by Mr. McMahon, he was an 15 just an opening question, do you know who was 15 82-year-old gentleman who was a Marine in the 16 selling gaskets to the Union Carbide Brownsville 16 invasion of Iwo Jima, if that triggers anything in 17 facility in the 1960s, as early as 1970s? 17 your mind? 18 A. I don't. 18 A. I must not have read that portion. 19 Q. I want to take this step by step for 19 Q. Well, let me just ask you -- do you 20 each case. I am going to break this apart again. 20 remember some testimony about a special Garlock 21 It will be the same series of questions but with 21 gasket? 22 respect to the Eddie Whetsell case and assume that 22 A. I do. 23 the years he was at the work site were approximately 23 Q. And the -- have you -- I want to ask 24 1964 to approximately 1974 or '75 zone, okay? 24 this and break it up into pieces, okay? 25 A. Yes, sir. 25 A. Certainly. 25 (Pages 97 to 100) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 101 Page 103 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 Q. Speaking on behalf of Garlock as you sit 2 assume there is testimony to the effect -- that 3 here today in 2007, do you have any reason to 3 Garlock brand products were used in the Acid Unit by 4 dispute the testimony that Garlock specific brand 4 Mr. Whetsell during the years he was out there, 5 products were utilized in the El Paso Products 5 okay. Let me ask first, do you remember reading any 6 Odessa, Texas facility during the time period Eddie 6 testimony along those lines? 7 Whetsell was there? 7 A. Yes, I believe so. 8 A. It is not particularly clear to me what 8 Q. Do you have any reason to dispute that? 9 those products may have been but the way you phrased 9 A. I don't believe so. 10 your question that Garlock products were used, no, I 10 Q. Okay. Now let's talk about specifically 11 don't have any information that would cause me to 11 during that time period of the mid 1960s up to the 12 dispute that. 12 early 1970s, for that Adipic and Nitric Acid Unit, 13 Q. That is why I am taking it step by step 13 would it be accurate that in a reasonable 14 and we will get into what products they may be but 14 probability those would be crocidolite or what is 15 starting on just the brand name level, you have no 15 otherwise known as Blue African asbestos fiber 16 reason to dispute testimony that Garlock brand 16 products for utilization in those nitric acid and 17 products were utilized at that facility at that time 17 adipic acid processes? 18 period when Eddie Whetsell was there, just that 18 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 19 question about the Garlock brand products? 19 A. I don't know because part of the reason 20 A. That is correct. 20 or part of the information that I was hoping to get 21 Q. No reason to dispute that? 21 from the deposition testimony was information that 22 A. I have no reason to dispute that. 22 normally Garlock would use to make product 23 Q. Now, in the facility, do you have an 23 recommendations. And what Garlock would normally 24 understanding from reading Ron Slaughter's testimony 24 use would be an acronym for that would be called 25 and if it was in fact Mr. McMahon, if you read his, 25 TAMPS, which is temperature, application, media, Page 102 Page 104 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 about the nature of what that facility made, how it 2 pressure and size. So normally what you would 3 worked and its general operations? 3 expect is information or if you had information such 4 A. Yes, I read selected portions of both 4 as the temperature, the concentration and so on, 5 but I read quite a bit of Mr. Slaughter's, more of 5 flange design, it would be the kind of information 6 Mr. Slaughter's, that is my belief. Yes, basically 6 that we would normally use to make specific 7 as I recall, the end product that was being produced 7 recommendations. I didn't see any of that, so I 8 was nylon that might be used for nylon tire cord or 8 guess I -- 9 for carpet, and that there were a variety of 9 Q. You are not saying "yes," you are not 10 chemicals including acids that were used in 10 saying "no"? 11 conjunction with one another, as part of the process 11 A. That is correct. 12 as feed stocks and so forth to create the -- to 12 Q. What is Garlock style 7705? 13 create the nylon fiber. 13 A. Garlock 7705 was a crocidolite fiber 14 Q. That there was an Acid Unit that was one 14 compressed asbestos sheet with an SBR binder colored 15 of the intermediate operating units towards the 15 gray-black. 16 production of the end product? 16 (The following exhibit was marked for 17 A. Yes, that is my interpretation that was 17 identification: Garlock 112.) 18 said, yes. 18 Q. And that -- I am going to have to share 19 Q. And that the Acid Unit included a nitric 19 a document here. This is marked as Exhibit No. 112, 20 acid and adipic acid process? 20 documents produced by another of the defendants, 21 A. Yes. 21 Huntsman Chemical, who is the successor in interest 22 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 22 or at least the plaintiff's contention, successor in 23 Q. And the -- you said -- you may not 23 interest, to El Paso Products for that facility and 24 remember Mr. McMahon's name but you do remember some 24 I am going to have to share. 25 testimony to the effect -- and let me ask you to 25 Exhibit 112 has their Bates number 26 (Pages 101 to 104) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 105 Page 107 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 HPOLYW 019009: Page number 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14, 2 out there? 3 correct? 3 A. Well, the "4" isn't very distinct but I 4 A. Yes, sir. I can't see the numbers but I 4 have been told it says "4" and I have no reason to 5 am sure that is correct. Hang on one second. 5 not believe that and I believe it says "7705" but as 6 Q. And again I will represent to you these 6 I sit here today, I can't clearly read that. 7 are documents produced by the plant owner, its later 7 Q. Right in front of that number says 8 owner. It says U&PC requisitions and purchase 8 "Garlock"? 9 orders and then it gives a WO which I assume is like 9 A. Well, it may. It is certainly G and 10 a work order, probably abbreviation, 75061 to 79, 10 could be part of an A there but to me it was not 11 correct? 11 very legible then and -- this copy is a little bit 12 A. Yes. 12 better I think than the one that I had. 13 Q. It says year "'72 to '76" on the bottom, 13 Q. Garlock style 7705 is a crocidolite 14 correct? 14 packing product or sheet product, correct? 15 A. Yes, it does. 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. These are handwritten in a little faint, 16 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 17 so if you want -- have you seen these documents 17 A. It was, yes, sir. 18 before? 18 Q. Back in the day, back in the late 19 A. I may have, yes. 19 '60s, early '70s, it was a crocidolite-containing 20 Q. When did you first see these documents? 20 product? 21 A. I can't tell you specifically but I 21 A. That is correct. 22 would say it's sometime in the last two months 22 Q. Have you ever seen the design 23 probably. 23 specifications for what type of material -- 24 Q. These were produced to us and we have 24 gasketing material was to be used in that facility 25 produced them to Segal McCambridge so presumably 25 back in the '60s and '70s? Page 106 Page 108 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 they wound their way to you? 2 A. No, I have not. 3 A. Yes. 3 Q. If I represent to you that it is 4 Q. You have seen this and it has on here, 4 crocidolite gaskets supposed to be used in that 5 in fact on this purchase order for Garlock 7705 4 5 facility back in the 1960s, do you believe that 6 units -- on Exhibit No. 112 which you said you have 6 would be consistent with the appropriate and normal 7 seen within the last couple of months, it has on 7 use of your product in an acid type unit back in the 8 this, "El Paso Products Company requisition or 8 '60s and '70s? 9 purchase order" included among other things, a line 9 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 10 for 4 units of 3-inch 150-pound looks like -- I 10 A. I think your question is is style 7705. 11 don't know what the next thing is -- PNG or PVG 11 Q. I am not going specifically to 7705 but 12 gaskets Garlock number 7705, correct? 12 I am saying it would be a normal regular use of a 13 A. May I see that? 13 Garlock crocidolite-containing product to be used in 14 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 14 an acid process back in the '60s and '70s; stated 15 A. I am hoping it is a better copy than 15 differently, that is not a misuse of the product in 16 what I was shown previously because I couldn't read 16 that type of process, is it? 17 it. 17 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 18 Q. Let me point to the line. 18 A. No, it is not a misuse, depending on the 19 A. I see the line and I can clearly see a 7 19 acid, the concentration, the temperature and the 20 and a 7. I am not trying to be difficult. I can 20 application, it might be that a chrysotile asbestos 21 see a 7 and a 7 and what appears to probably be a 5 21 gasket would have worked as well but it would not be 22 and that may be a 0 but I can't read this much 22 a misuse of 7705 -- of a chrysotile asbestos 23 better than the other one. 23 product. 24 Q. And it says "Garlock gasket" -- on the 24 Q. Crocidolite? 25 left-hand column, it has "quantity" and has a "4" 25 A. I am sorry, a crocidolite asbestos 27 (Pages 105 to 108) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 109 Page 111 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 product. 2 A. That is correct. 3 (The following exhibit was marked for 3 Q. For the nitric acid wash column feed on 4 identification: Garlock 113.) 4 the next page, again it specifies Blue African 5 Q. I am going to again -- we are going to 5 asbestos gaskets, correct? 6 have to share a copy here for a minute. I show you 6 A. It does. 7 what has been marked as Exhibit 113 and the Bates 7 Q. For the nitric acid wash column feed 8 numbers -- again, this came from the Huntsman 8 cooler, next page, it again specifies Blue African 9 Chemical Company who is the later successor to that 9 asbestos gaskets, correct? 10 plant? 10 A. It does. 11 A. Yes, sir. 11 Q. Next page for the primary nitric acid 12 Q. They are Bates numbers 17,387. HPOLYW 12 reactor, it again for gaskets specifies Blue African 13 17,387 page 395, 396, 397, 424, 426, 427, 431, 433, 13 asbestos, correct? 14 435, 438 and 396 and 397. 14 A. Yes. 15 I will give you a minute to look through 15 Q. For the next page for the adipic acid 16 those. 16 filter wash, water, it again specifies Blue African 17 A. What is it you would like me to look 17 asbestos, correct? 18 for? 18 A. That is correct. 19 Q. Give you a minute and I will ask you a 19 Q. For the -- can't read the first words -- 20 series of questions. Help speed this up, there is a 20 not copied very clearly. Can't tell if it's 21 line down towards the bottom about the gasket spec 21 nitric -- probably. See if your glasses are any 22 right (indicating)? 22 better than mine. It is kind of blurry. 23 A. Okay, yes. 23 A. I can't read it. 24 Q. They are all going to focus on that. 24 Q. It says "secondary nitric acid"? 25 (There was a pause in the proceeding.) 25 A. It does. Page 110 Page 112 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Let the opposing counsel see those for a 4 minute. 5 Have you ever been shown these before 6 today? 7 A. I have not. 8 Q. Again, let me represent to you these 9 were produced by Huntsman Chemical, the later 10 successor in interest to this plant, owner of the 11 plant, and they have made these copies, produced 12 them to us and they have been provided to Segal. 13 Looking through these specs, what appear that for 14 this Nitric Acid Unit and the reactor coolers, on 15 the top of each spec sheet, it shows the particular 16 piece of equipment, correct? 17 A. Yes, it does. 18 Q. So for example, looking at the first 19 page, it says "reactor product cooler" and it 20 specifies for gaskets, Blue African asbestos, 21 correct? 22 A. That is correct. 23 Q. Blue African is the kind of common usage 24 name for what is also technically known as 25 crocidolite asbestos; is that correct? 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 Q. And it says again for specification of 3 gasket, Blue African asbestos, correct? 4 A. That is correct. 5 Q. For the flash column reboiler, it again 6 specifies for gaskets, Blue African asbestos, 7 correct? 8 A. That is correct. 9 Q. For the nitric acid concentrator steam, 10 it specifies Blue African asbestos, correct? 11 A. That is correct. 12 Q. For the nitric acid concentrator 13 process, what does it specify for gaskets on that? 14 A. Blue African asbestos. 15 Q. For nitric acid column reboiler and 16 spare, whatever spare is, what kind of gasket is 17 specified there? 18 A. Blue African asbestos. 19 Q. Nitric acid wash column feed, what kind 20 of gasket is specified there? 21 A. Blue African asbestos. 22 Q. For the nitric acid wash column feed 23 cooler, what kind of material is specified for the 24 gasket? 25 A. Blue African asbestos. 28 (Pages 109 to 112) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 113 Page 115 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 Q. And Garlock 7705 was a crocidolite or 2 Q. My question is very specific -- let me 3 Blue African product, correct? 3 add one other fact. Have you seen the report of Dr. 4 A. That is correct. 4 Victor Roggli in Mr. Whetsell's case? 5 Q. And the terms again just to be clear, 5 A. I have not. 6 Blue African asbestos is the exact same thing, just 6 Q. Let me ask you to assume Dr. Victor 7 a different term for crocidolite asbestos? 7 Roggli -- you know who he is? 8 A. That is my understanding. 8 A. I don't. 9 Q. Did Garlock make other crocidolite 9 Q. Let me ask you to assume that a 10 materials back in the '60s and '70s? 10 physician named Dr. Victor Roggli has actually 11 A. Yes. 11 obtained portions of Mr. Whetsell's one tissue, 12 (The proceeding recessed at 3:32 p.m.) 12 dissected it to determine the amount and types of 13 (The proceeding reconvened at 3:36 p.m.; 13 asbestos in his lung and found crocidolite in Eddie 14 appearances as before noted.) 14 Whetsell's lung tissue, okay? 15 JAMES HEFFRON, resumes; 15 A. Yes. 16 EXAMINATION BY MR. MUNDY CONTINUING: 16 Q. Just assume that. 17 Q. Mr. Heffron, right before the break, we 17 A. Okay. 18 were talking -- you said you had no reason to 18 Q. Do you have any reason to dispute any 19 dispute -- speaking on behalf of the company, the 19 facts which you could state which would dispute on 20 company had no reason to dispute the testimony that 20 behalf of Garlock that Garlock 21 Garlock brand products were at the El Paso Products 21 crocidolite-containing materials were used by Eddie 22 facility when Mr. Whetsell was there. You also told 22 Whetsell back in the '60s and '70s at the El Paso 23 me you had no reason to dispute the testimony of Mr. 23 Products facility? 24 McMahon that Garlock brand products were in the 24 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 25 acid, in the Nitric and Adipic Acid Unit, and we 25 A. Well, I am not sure what you would Page 114 Page 116 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 have seen the specifications which specified Blue 2 consider facts but the fact is Teflon is resistant 3 African asbestos for the gasketing material and a 3 to acids, so I haven't seen any documents that 4 purchase order for what appears to be Garlock 7705. 4 allows me to understand whether or not they may have 5 So I guess looking at all those things in totality, 5 been used or not used. 6 do you have any reason to dispute that Garlock 6 MR. MUNDY: Object to responsiveness. 7 crocidolite-containing gaskets were in that facility 7 Q. Was there an alternative that would work 8 when Eddie Whetsell was there? 8 in a nitric acid and adipic acid application in the 9 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 9 1960s, mid 1960s to early to mid 1970s? 10 A. I don't know. Could I look at this 10 A. Yes, I believe so. My understanding of 11 document again, please. 11 adipic acid is it is not a very corrosive acid and 12 Q. Absolutely. 12 probably chrysotile asbestos would be suitable in 13 A. Well, this is a design document which 13 that service and Nitric Acid Service in the '60s 14 means -- my interpretation is that this is the 14 '70s, there is two materials that would be suitable 15 engineering firm who designed the plant specified 15 that I am aware of, one of them would be Blue 16 what the gasketing material would be. I don't know 16 African asbestos or crocidolite and the other one 17 if that means that El Paso Products would not have 17 would be Teflon. 18 used any other products that might have been 18 Q. You agree Teflon is not toxic to humans 19 appropriate for Acid Service or not. So I guess 19 in its normal use, Teflon gasketing material? 20 since there are in the '60s Teflon was available and 20 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 21 could have been used at Nitric Acid Service and as a 21 A. I don't have any knowledge to suggest 22 Garlock product, it is possible El Paso Products 22 that it would be, no, sir. 23 used Teflon in those Acid Services. 23 Q. And so far we have been over a couple 24 MR. MUNDY: And object to 24 facts which you said you did not dispute the 25 responsiveness. 25 testimony that Garlock brand products were present 29 (Pages 113 to 116) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 117 Page 119 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 at the El Paso Products facility in Odessa when Mr. 2 special material that was made, special is in the 3 Whetsell was there, correct? 3 mind of the beholder, and Teflon in the '60s might 4 A. That is correct. 4 have been special as well, so I don't have knowledge 5 Q. You said you did not dispute the 5 that would allow me to understand whether they were 6 testimony from Mr. McMahon that Garlock brand 6 or weren't using Garlock product but I do know that 7 products were present in the Adipic and Nitric Acid 7 both crocidolite-containing asbestos gasketing as 8 Units, correct? 8 well as Teflon would be suitable for those services, 9 A. That is correct. 9 notwithstanding additional information about 10 Q. And you have seen the design specs for 10 temperature, concentration, media -- application and 11 the gasketing material from Fish Engineering which 11 so forth. 12 show Blue African asbestos specified for the 12 MR. MUNDY: Object to responsiveness. 13 gasketing material for multiple of the nitric acid 13 Q. The design specs actually specify 14 design specs and some for the adipic acid specs, 14 specifically Blue African asbestos, though; you have 15 correct? 15 seen those specs? 16 A. Yes, sir. 16 A. They do, yes, sir. 17 Q. And then we have seen what appears to be 17 Q. Let's change gears and talk about Grover 18 a purchase order of Garlock 7705 and that is a 18 Weikel for a few minutes. 19 crocidolite product, correct? 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 20 Q. The -- you have seen only one, actually 21 A. Yes, as I mentioned, it is very 21 there have been two depositions from Grover Weikel's 22 difficult for me to read that document, I have been 22 case that you have reviewed portions of, I think you 23 told it says "7705." I have no reason to dispute 24 that and that is Blue African or a crocidolite 23 said that would be his son Kerry Weikel and Mr. 24 Bowling; is that correct? 25 gasketing material. 25 A. That is correct. Page 118 Page 120 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 Q. That is what I am asking right now. I 2 Q. Who selected the portions for you to 3 realize you weren't back there in the day so I am 3 read? 4 not asking what you knew about back then but I am 4 A. I did. 5 saying as you sit here today on behalf of the 5 Q. So you were provided the entire 6 company, you have nothing to dispute those things 6 deposition? 7 that we just went over; is that fair to say? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. Could you 8 Q. And then how did you determine which 9 define what you mean by "those things"? 9 portion you were going to read as opposed to just 10 MR. MUNDY: Those last series of 10 reading the whole deposition beginning to end? 11 questions I asked. 11 A. Well, I actually did read quite a bit of 12 MR. HARRIS: Okay. 12 Kerry Weikel's deposition and then decided that what 13 A. No, I don't believe so. 13 I would do would be to look at the word index at the 14 Q. And before -- as you sit here today on 14 back of the deposition where either Garlock or 15 behalf of Garlock Company, you are not disputing 15 gasket or gaskets was mentioned and then I would 16 that Garlock crocidolite-containing materials were 16 then go to that section of the deposition and read 17 used by Eddie Whetsell in those units but you would 17 it, possibly beyond what was referenced or in front 18 say that there was an alternative that could have 18 of what was referenced in order to get the context 19 been used which would be Teflon; is that correct? 19 but that is the method that I used. 20 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 20 Q. Okay. And let me represent to you that 21 A. I don't know if you say I am not 21 there have been other co-workers deposed in the 22 disputing, there is no information that I have seen 22 Grover Weikel case? 23 beyond that single document that allows me to 23 A. Yes, sir. 24 understand whether or not Garlock Blue asbestos 24 Q. And that there is a general, I guess I 25 product was being used. The reference to the 25 would call it a general description of the Garlock 30 (Pages 117 to 120) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 121 Page 123 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 product as being ungraphited and either a gray 2 Q. Let me ask it an easier way. If you had 3 charcoalish color to bluish color, that if it is 3 a chrysotile Garlock product that did not have 4 ungraphited, that would not be a chrysotile product; 4 graphite coating or graphite impregnation, what 5 is that accurate to say? 5 color would it be? 6 A. I am a little bit confused by that. 6 A. That sounds like two questions. There 7 Q. Let me restate the question. 7 is packing and the packing -- 8 A. Okay. 8 Q. Let's take it in steps. We'll go with 9 Q. Let me ask you to assume that there have 9 packing first. If you have a Garlock product in the L0 been three or four co-workers deposed in Grover 10 '60s and early '70s that is chrysotile, it's not 11 Weikel's case, first off. You have read one of them 11 coated in graphite and it's not graphite 12 and you have read his son, correct? 12 impregnated, what color would that chrysotile 13 A. Yes. 13 packing be? 14 Q. Let me ask you to assume there have been 14 A. Well, it could be in the case of 15 some others beyond that and that these gentlemen 15 packing -- which I think is what you asked me. 16 worked back in the day with Garlock products and 16 Q. Uh-huh. 17 they said that they used a Garlock product which was 17 A. Some people might describe it as a 18 not graphited, okay? 18 bluish or a white if it was Teflon impregnated, so I 19 A. Okay. 19 think probably half of the braided packings that 20 Q. And you know what that means, some 20 contained chrysotile probably had graphite and there 21 Garlock asbestos products had a graphite coating 21 were also crocidolite or Blue African asbestos 22 material around the outside of them so they would be 22 packings that had Teflon impregnation and they would 23 a grayish color on the exterior, correct? 23 be whitish in color. 24 A. Well, there is a -- that is where some 24 MR. MUNDY: I am not sure that was what 2 5 of my confusion comes in. Graphite has been used 25 I asked. Object to responsiveness. Page 122 Page 124 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 for many years and it is used today but in a 2 Q. Let's stick to non-graphite impregnated, 3 different form than typically graphite that is 3 non-graphite coated because that is what the workers 4 referenced in the past, so graphite was used as a 4 said, they were very specific, they were not 5 lubrication and a blocking agent system in braided 5 graphited products, okay? 6 packing. It also was used for a period of time as 7 an anti-stick material for gasketing. Graphite has 6 7 A. Okay. Q. I am sticking to that subset of your 8 been used, talcum powder has been used, talc has 8 product line, all right? 9 been used, Teflon has been used and silicone has 9 A. But -- but I don't know if non-graphite, 10 been used. So the presence or absence of graphite 11 on the surface of a gasketing doesn't really tell me 10 it excludes Teflon impregnated, I guess that is my 11 confusion. 12 anything about what that product might have been. 12 Q. Let's deal with the two of them. If you 13 Q. We are going to go to the next step, 13 have an all crocidolite or all chrysotile product 14 though. 14 which you all had some of those back in the '60s and 15 A. Okay. 16 Q. Assume these men said they used a 15 '70s, that was a major product line, correct? 16 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 17 Garlock product that was a grayish charcoal color 18 but they were very adamant that it was not a 19 graphited product, okay? 17 A. It was a small percentage of our sales 18 but it was a product that we offered, yes, sir. 19 Q. What color was an all chrysotile 20 A. All right. 21 Q. Does that allow us to conclude to a 20 non-graphited non- -- excuse me, non-graphited 21 packing back in the '60s or early '70s, chrysotile? 22 reasonable probability back in the '60s and early 23 '70s that that would exclude chrysotile gasketing or 22 A. I am sorry. I have been interpreting 23 all your questions as crocidolite and you are asking 24 packing materials? 24 me about chrysotile? 25 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 25 Q. Correct. 31 (Pages 121 to 124) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 125 Page 127 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 A. I apologize. 2 impregnated blue asbestos product appeared to have a 3 Q. We are going step by step. I am trying 3 bluish tint to it, I wouldn't disagree. The 4 to keep it real basic. Let me start all over. We 4 treatment is Teflon, that is whitish and the Teflon 5 are talking about chrysotile products first, okay? 5 acts a little bit like polyurethane does on a 6 A. Okay. 6 surface in that it kind of makes it translucent, so 7 Q. What is otherwise known as white 7 from a distance I would call it white. If someone 8 asbestos or sometimes Canadian asbestos, correct? 8 said it looked bluish, I wouldn't disagree. 9 A. Yes, sir. 9 Q. Let's talk about the 7705, what color 10 Q. If you have a chrysotile packing back in 10 was that back in the '60s and early '70s? 11 the '60s, '70s, it was non-graphite coated, not 11 A. Well, we had been talking about packing 12 graphite impregnated, what color would that be? 12 and 7705 is a sheet gasket. 13 A. It would depend on the style. They were 13 Q. Good point. Let's not get off into 14 Teflon impregnated white asbestos products which 14 sheet gasket because sheet gasket is a whole 15 would appear white. 15 different set of properties, right? 16 Q. Okay. 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 A. There were tallow was used, silicone was 17 Q. Let's stick with our packings for a 18 used, fish oil was used, so -- and I don't -- 18 minute. So it could have a blue-ish color to it if 19 Q. Would it be fair to say they were mostly 19 it was non-graphite impregnated back in the '60s the 20 white to off-white colors? 20 crocidolite-containing? 21 A. Probably. There is also mica was used 21 A. Someone might describe it as that, yes. 22 and zinc was used in the valve stem packings, they 22 Q. In the '60s, was there a crocidolite 23 might appear grayish in color, so if they weren't 23 packing that did not have Teflon in it? 24 graphite impregnated, some of those products would 24 A. Yes. 25 have appeared white. 25 Q. What color was that? Page 126 Page 128 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 Q. Okay. Now, we are going to go to 2 A. I believe I would want to check but I 3 crocidolite or what is otherwise known as blue 3 believe that any of the crocidolite packings that 4 asbestos products? 4 didn't have Teflon impregnation would have graphite 5 A. Okay. 5 and they would be black. 6 Q. So Blue African or blue asbestos or 6 Q. Okay. Black would come from the 7 crocidolite products. Non-graphite impregnated, 7 graphite on the exterior? 8 non-graphite coated back in the '60s, what color 8 A. Yes, sir. 9 would those be? 9 Q. And now let's change over to sheet 10 A. Well, I believe the only two 10 gasket material? 11 combinations would have been graphite or Teflon 11 A. Yes, sir. 12 impregnated and my belief is the Teflon impregnated 12 Q. And some workers in years past also 13 would look whitish. 13 called that sheet packing material? 14 Q. Interesting. What color was the Blue 14 A. Yes, they have. 15 African asbestos? 15 Q. But it's the -- comes out on a roll and 16 A. Blue. 16 they cut a flat either square or circle or ovals out 17 Q. What color was Teflon? 17 to fit on flanges, correct, among other things? 18 A. White. 18 A. Gasketing can come in a roll, typically 19 Q. And would you be able to see a bluish 19 the products you are talking about usually are in a 20 tint or was there I think in your prior testimony 20 sheet form but that is not to say they couldn't be 21 you have described as a charcoal color? 21 rolled up. 22 A. I don't -- 22 Q. Well, okay, I am not trying to get hung 23 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 23 up, it is kind of like a poster boardish type of 24 A. I don't believe I would have described 24 thing where you roll it out and it's flat and the 25 it as a charcoal but if someone said that a Teflon 25 workers would cut their shapes out whatever they 32 (Pages 125 to 128) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 129 Page 131 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 needed to fit the piece of metal they were going to 2 A. It was a particular type, I can't tell 3 fit it on? 3 you what particular type it was. 4 A. That is correct. 4 Q. So 75 to 85 percent Blue African 5 Q. That is why they call it sheet gasket? 5 asbestos and then these other things? 6 A. Yes, sir. 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. Back in the '60s and say mid '60s to mid 7 Q. What was the percentage of Blue African 8 '70s, what color was Garlock crocidolite-containing 8 asbestos in the packing material? 9 sheet gasket materials and if you need to break that 9 A. Well, that would vary by style. All L0 down into subsets, take them one by one? 10 percentages are determined by weight and so I 11 A. There was only one 11 wouldn't want to venture a guess. Some of those 12 crocidolite-containing compressed asbestos sheet, 12 styles and their percentage of asbestos had been 13 that was 7705, and it was gray-black. There were 13 produced previously in a document -- 14 probably about seven total products or more that 14 Q. You are right. Don't worry -- I can 15 were gray-black, it was also gray-black. 15 find that. That is a part of your discovery 16 Q. Okay. What were the other gray-black 16 response, they give a breakdown of all that? 17 ones that are graphite covered materials? 17 A. Yes, sir. 18 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 18 Q. Speaking on behalf of the company, do 19 A. They are not graphite covered. They 19 you have facts to dispute or do you dispute that 20 are -- it is a compressed asbestos sheet material 20 Grover Weikel worked with Garlock brand products at 21 that has probably a carbon black as part of the 21 the Union Carbide facility in Brownsville? 22 formula and it leaves it gray-black and the other 22 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 23 styles -- some of the other styles would be 7021, 23 A. No, I don't have any facts to dispute 24 7228, 8748. I know there are other -- I have 24 that. 2 5 counted in the past that there is at least five 25 Q. I am going to go down to the layer below Page 130 Page 132 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 styles that were gray-black in addition to 7705. 2 that. Do you have any facts to dispute that Grover 3 Q. What was the percentage of crocidolite 3 Weikel would have worked with Garlock 4 or Blue African asbestos in the 7705? 4 asbestos-containing materials at the Union Carbide 5 A. 75 to 85 percent. 5 facility in Brownsville, Texas? 6 Q. The remainder is a binder to give it 6 A. No. 7 something to hold it together? 7 Q. Speaking on behalf of the company, do 8 A. It isn't just a binder. The compressed 8 you have any facts to dispute that Grover Weikel 9 asbestos gasketing was made up of fibers which were 9 worked with Garlock Blue African or crocidolite 10 of course asbestos, fillers, which could be 10 asbestos-containing materials? 11 something such as clay and then rubber as well as 11 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 12 other curatives and so forth. I think the rubber 12 A. The only information I have is the 13 probably makes up about 13 to 15 percent of the 13 deposition testimony I read and in the case of Mr. 14 total. 14 Bowling, he identifies the material that he and Mr. 15 Q. Gives it flexibility and handling 15 Weikel worked with as being whitish or light gray in 16 characteristics? 16 color or words to that effect. That is not the 17 A. Yes, sir, it does. 17 color of Garlock 7705. 18 Q. What was the clay for? 18 Q. Have you seen the testimony of the other 19 A. A filler. 19 workers from the other areas in which Mr. Weikel 20 Q. What is the percentage of clay? 20 worked? 21 A. I don't know. 21 A. I have not. 22 Q. A few percent? 22 Q. Do you remember what his son said who 23 A. Yes, I would think so. 23 was the purchasing agent for Union Carbide in that 24 Q. Do you know if it was any particular 24 facility? 25 kind of clay like kaolin, k-a-o-l-i-n? 25 A. Not specifically, I know he talked about 33 (Pages 129 to 132) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 133 Page 135 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 the use of gasketing. He identified Garlock. I 2 corporation itself, maintain a library of 3 believe he may have also described what the Blue 3 asbestos-related documents? 4 African asbestos products looked like. From his 4 A. No, sir. 5 explanation, I couldn't rule it in or rule it out. 5 Q. You all have contracted with an outside 6 Q. In fact, didn't Kerry Weikel testify he 6 service, Garrison Litigation, to be that repository 7 was responsible for purchasing and in fact testified 7 of documents that would be relevant or responsive to 8 under oath that he purchased Blue African asbestos 8 litigation, asbestos litigation? 9 products, Garlock brand products? 9 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 10 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 10 A. I don't think Garrison is an outside 11 A. I don't recall reading that. If that is 11 agency, they are a subsidiary of EnPro Industries. 12 what his deposition says, I have no reason to 12 But they handle all of the asbestos litigation 13 dispute it. 13 including the maintaining the files that have been 14 (The proceeding recessed at 4:02 p.m.) 14 developed over the years, yes, sir. 15 (The proceeding reconvened at 4:16 p.m.; 15 Q. They have the document library or 16 appearances as before noted.) 16 documents repository for Garlock's asbestos-related 17 JAMES HEFFRON, resumes; 17 documents? 18 EXAMINATION BY MR. MUNDY CONTINUING: 18 A. Yes, sir. 19 Q. Mr. Heffron, we are going to go over 19 Q. Where is Garrison Litigation physically 20 some of the remaining subject matter categories of 20 located? 21 the Garlock Corporation's depo notice; okay? 21 A. They are here in Rochester, New York. 22 A. Yes, sir. 22 Q. How many employees does it have, 23 Q. So it is going to be a little 23 approximately, is it one or two? 24 hop-scotching. I will read off the subject matter 24 A. It is more than ten. Probably ten. 25 and ask you a few questions about each of those or 25 Q. Do they have a document librarian or Page 134 Page 136 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 sometimes there will be two or three subject matters 2 custodian or somebody whose primary assignment is to 3 that are essentially closely related, so I may read 3 be able to review the documents, see what is in 4 off two or three to you and then ask you some 4 there, see if it's responsive to discovery and 5 things. If you need to, you can look at the notice 5 authenticate the documents? 6 with me here but it is going to be a little bit of 6 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 7 hop-scotching and I will tell you we are getting 7 A. I don't know. 8 close to the end. I know Mr. Harris is trying to 8 Q. Who is the primary person in charge of 9 make his plane and be respectful of his time and 9 Garrison Litigation? 10 your time and not drag it out, okay? 10 A. Paul Grant, Jr. 11 A. Thank you. 11 Q. Okay. And Garrison Litigation, well, 12 Q. The first actually couple things that 12 is a related company today to Garlock, it's under 13 are somewhat related, the first is "The 13 the same parent umbrella that is EnPro Industries? 14 authentication of asbestos-related documents within 14 A. Yes. 15 the care, custody or control from Garlock or 15 MR. HARRIS: Excuse me, maybe we should 16 appearing to be from Garlock." 16 go off the record for just a second, if we could. 17 And number 2 is "Any and all 17 (The proceeding recessed at 4:19 p.m.) 18 asbestos-related documents within the care, custody 18 (The proceeding reconvened at 4:20 p.m.; 19 and control of Garlock, regardless of source." So 19 appearances as before noted.) 20 really they are essentially saying about who is the 20 JAMES HEFFRON, resumes; 21 custodian, where are they kept, things like that? 21 EXAMINATION BY MR. MUNDY CONTINUING: 22 A. Yes, sir. 22 Q. Mr. Heffron, we were having a little 23 Q. And I know from speaking to you in times 23 discussion off the record and instead of having it 24 past and even a little bit today, or I should ask it 24 off the record, I would rather you explain it on the 25 this way: Does Garlock, the company, the 25 record. Who has control and primary responsibility 34 (Pages 133 to 136) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 137 Page 139 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 for maintaining Oarlock's documents related to the 2 minutes are also at Garrison Litigation, the request 3 asbestos litigation? 3 would typically come to Garrison Litigation, not to 4 A. Technically, I do. 4 me, and they would fill the request. 5 Q. Now, physically I mean real world 5 Q. Let me see if this helps. Does Garrison 6 practical terms, who does? 6 Litigation have all of the documents and records 7 A. Well, what I mean by that is I don't 7 responsive to asbestos litigation, have access to 8 maintain those records at our plant. Other than the 8 those? 9 sales records. Over the years since 1979, Garlock 9 A. Yes. 10 has been maintaining any of its records relating to 10 Q. So there may be copies over on the 11 asbestos. And over the years, there has been 11 company side but Garrison will have within its 12 numerous litigation which has provided us with and 12 ability to access the whole universe of documents 13 produced other documents. All of those documents 13 that could potentially be related to the litigation? 14 reside in the public warehouse here in Rochester, 14 A. I believe so with a possible exception 15 New York. And then in some cases there is more than 15 of the sales records which are on microfiche and are 16 one copy, for instance, let's talk about a catalog, 16 maintained at the plant in Palmyra. 17 there might be two original 1937 catalogs, one of 17 Q. They do not -- Garrison Litigation does 18 those original 1937 catalogs might be at Garrison, 18 not have access to the sales information records? 19 the other one would be in the warehouse. In terms 19 A. I don't know. 20 of the sales information, the sales information that 20 Q. Okay. You are not saying "yes" or "no"; 21 I referenced earlier on microfiche and maybe I 21 you don't know either way? 22 misinterpreted your question from that standpoint, 22 A. That is correct. 23 the sales records maintained on microfiche are under 23 Q. Okay. And who is the primary person in 24 my control and they are maintained at our primary 24 charge of Garrison Litigation? 25 manufacturing facility at 1666 Division Street, 25 A. Paul Grant, Jr. Page 138 Page 140 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 Palmyra, New York. 2 Q. Is there a person that you know of that 3 Q. Let's talk about like say memos and 3 is primarily responsible for doing document searches 4 minutes and things like that, let's say the Asbestos 4 and pulling documents? 5 Textile Institute minutes, those are things you have 5 A. I don't know. 6 seen through the years from ladies and men such as 6 Q. Let's go to category number 3 which is 7 myself on behalf of workers, correct? 7 "The due diligence undertaken by Garlock in 8 A. Yes, sir. 8 preparation of its responses for the work sites and 9 Q. Where would Garlock maintain copies of 9 products specifically at issue in Whetsell and 10 things like that, those ATI minutes? 10 Weikel cases." I think we have covered this to a 11 A. Garlock would maintain them at the 11 degree today and you have already said from your 12 public warehouse here in Rochester, New York. I 12 review of the discovery responses, there were not 13 would expect because of the litigation, copies are 13 work site specific responses in the discovery as you 14 also at Garrison Litigation. 14 have reviewed it; is that accurate? 15 Q. Okay. If a document request comes in 15 A. Yes, that is accurate. 16 for something like that, who is the person that 16 Q. Number 4 we have talked about, 5 we have 17 actually physically is in charge of pulling it, 17 talked about. Number 6 is -- I think we have mostly 18 making a copy and sending it out; is that Garrison 18 talked about but I will just make sure but it says 19 Litigation employees that do that? 19 "Garlock products would prove satisfactory for use 20 A. Yes. 20 in the Nitric Acid and Adipic Acid Unit at the El 21 Q. Do they have -- 21 Paso Parks facility in Odessa, Texas" and when I 22 A. I guess I should qualify. I suppose 22 used the term "satisfactory," I mean in the older 23 that would depend on the document. For instance, if 23 Garlock catalogs, it has a product chart that would 24 we were asked to produce ATI minutes, the ATI 24 show which products are satisfactory for which 25 minutes are in the public warehouse, but the ATI 25 applications and which ones would prove 35 (Pages 137 to 140) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 141 Page 143 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 unsatisfactory for certain applications, correct? 2 matter number 10, "Workers' Comp. claims against 3 A. Yes, sir. 3 Garlock for asbestos-related injuries"? 4 Q. In the mid '60s to mid '70s, crocidolite 4 A. Yes, sir. 5 or Blue African asbestos products were satisfactory 5 Q. How many worker comp claims have been 6 for use in nitric acid applications, correct? 6 made against Garlock by its employees to date for 7 A. As was Teflon, yes, sir. 7 asbestos-related injuries, approximately? 8 Q. That was my next question. And those 8 A. I don't know the specific number but I 9 were the only two that would be appropriate or rated 9 am certain that the number is at least 15 and L0 satisfactory for use back in the mid '60s to mid 10 possibly is higher than that but less than 20, I 11 '70s; is that accurate? 11 believe is probably correct. 12 A. For Nitric Acid Service, that is 12 Q. How many of those are from the 13 correct. 13 chrysotile product line production versus the 14 Q. And same question for adipic acid, Blue 14 crocidolite-containing production lines? 15 African asbestos in the mid '60s to mid '70s, would 15 A. Well, the compensation cases to my 16 be rated satisfactory in that application, correct? 16 knowledge are not sorted that way. The compensation 17 A. I believe so. Adipic based on my 17 is based on the individual and where that individual 18 understanding is actually a less corrosive acid than 18 worked and so I have no -- there is no information 19 nitric, so I think -- 19 that I have reviewed that differentiates other than 20 Q. It would be satisfactory? 20 the disease between the worker having worked with 21 A. It would be satisfactory as would be 21 chrysotile or crocidolite. 22 crocidolite as well as blue -- Teflon, I am sorry. 22 Q. Have there been to your knowledge any 23 Q. So there were two asbestos alternatives 23 mesothelioma claims out of workers who were 24 and one non-asbestos alternative that would prove 24 producing Garlock's chrysotile products? 2 5 satisfactory for adipic acid? 25 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. Page 142 Page 144 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 A. I believe so and the only thing I would 2 A. Well, again, the area, for instance, if 3 qualify is as I testified to earlier, to make a 3 we talk about packing, the packing operation 4 complete recommendation, generally Garlock would 4 produced both chrysotile and crocidolite asbestos 5 want the temperature, the pressure, the 5 products, likewise -- 6 concentration, the flange type and so forth. But 6 Q. From the same product line, same 7 based on my general understanding of adipic acid, 7 production line? 8 there would be two asbestos-containing products that 8 A. The equipment that is used is dependent 9 would be satisfactory. 9 on the design of the product, so if we offered a 10 Q. And for -- you read Ron Slaughter's 10 square braided blue asbestos product, it would be 11 deposition, you saw the terminology HMD or the HMD 11 produced on the same equipment that would be used to 12 Unit which I am going off the top of my head which I 12 produce square braided chrysotile product. And if I 13 think was hexamethyldi something or other? Even 13 didn't say "crocidolite" the first time, I should 14 you are smiling at that one. 14 have. In other words, so square braided products 15 A. I am not going to try to pronounce it. 15 whether they are made out of chrysotile or 16 It is HMD. 16 crocidolite, are made on braiders that produce a 17 Q. HMD, there we go. Do you know what 17 square braid, likewise lattice-braid. In the area 18 products were rated for satisfactory for 18 of sheet gasketing, the sheeters that produced 19 application -- that application, back in the mid 19 chrysotile compressed asbestos sheet also was used 20 '60s to mid '70s, could be again the same three 20 to produce crocidolite compressed asbestos sheet. 21 either Blue African or chrysotile or Teflon? 21 They were produced at different times and in 22 A. Yes, sir. 22 different quantities but the equipment would be the 23 Q. And I think for both -- let me ask them 23 same. 24 separately because they are separate cases. For the 24 Q. Would there be a clean-out of the plant 25 mid '60s up to mid 1974 -- I am going to subject 25 from when they would convert from a crocidolite 36 (Pages 141 to 144) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 145 Page 147 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 production run to a chrysotile production run? 2 would be -- it was a clam-shell type mixer and the 3 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 3 terminology that I am familiar with on a clam shell 4 A. Well, there wouldn't be a clean-out of 4 is much like a clam opens up, the equipment would 5 the plant. The only area that I have inquired about 5 rotate forward as the mixer opened up, the inside of 6 specifically would be in the area of gasketing and I 6 the mixer was chromed, there are blades that are 7 am familiar with the process that was used in the 7 used in the mixing process, which I have now 8 area of gasketing to convert from producing a black 8 described, and the operator would toggle the blades 9 product to a white product and the 9 forward so that the combination of the mixer opening 10 crocidolite-containing compressed asbestos sheet was 10 up as it rotates forward and the toggling of the 11 a gray-black product and I know what the process was 11 mixer blades would allow the dough to fall into what 12 to clean the mixer and sheeter prior to producing a 12 we call a dough cart. If any additional dough 13 white or light-colored product. 13 remained in the mixer, they would then use a device 14 Q. Okay. 14 that looked almost like a hoe or a shiv, in both 15 MR. MUNDY: Object to the response. 15 cases made out of brass, that would be used to clean 16 Q. My question is did they actually clean 16 out any remaining dough so that it went in the 17 out the plant when they would finish a production 17 mixer. 18 run of the crocidolite products, would they come 18 Q. Let's go back -- you are saying the 19 clean out the plant to clean the crocidolite product 19 worker would open the bag and pour the bag straight 20 fiber out of the plant before they would start the 20 into the clam shell? 21 chrysotile run? 21 A. That is my belief, yes, sir. 22 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. 22 Q. Did the worker put the bag on a table or 23 A. When you say "plant," that would suggest 23 did they just pick it up off a floor or a cart -- 24 to me the entire facility, so certainly there was no 24 A. I don't know. It was a platform in 25 clean-out of the facility. But the equipment that 25 which the mixer was affixed, I guess, is the word I Page 146 Page 148 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 would be used to manufacture compressed asbestos, 2 am looking for. Exactly what other -- what the area 3 crocidolite-containing asbestos materials was 3 looked like beyond that, I don't know. 4 cleaned out prior to producing chrysotile compressed 4 Q. Have you ever been in that actual area 5 asbestos sheet, so the plant wasn't cleaned, the 5 where they opened the asbestos bags up? 6 equipment was cleaned. 6 A. Sure. 7 Q. So for example, the asbestos arrives in 7 Q. When were the workers who opened the 8 the plant in big -- in back in the '60s, let's say, 8 bags first given respirators to wear? 9 '50s, '60s, it would arrive in the plant in big 9 A. I don't believe that that job required 10 burlap sacks, correct? 10 the use of a respirator. 11 A. It is my understanding that is one of 11 Q. So would the answer be "never"? 12 the methods that was used, yes, sir. 12 A. The answer would be I don't believe that 13 Q. And they would split open the bag and 13 the mixer operator was required to wear a mask in 14 put it in the hopper, correct? 14 his production job. 15 A. In the case of compressed asbestos 15 Q. Okay. Is that true even when they were 16 sheet, yes, sir. 16 using the crocidolite fiber? 17 Q. Okay. And what cleaning efforts did 17 A. To the best of my knowledge, yes, sir. 18 they make to clean out the bag opening area in the 18 Q. Did they wear disposable overalls on the 19 hopper when they would finish crocidolite before 19 outside at any point? 20 they would go into chrysotile production? 20 A. I don't know. 21 A. Well, I don't know if there was a 21 Q. When did Garlock last use crocidolite 22 hopper, the bag of asbestos-containing material 22 asbestos fiber, Blue African asbestos fiber? 23 whether it was chrysotile or crocidolite, would be 23 A. In the case of braided packing, the use 24 opened into a mixer and the mixer upon completion of 24 or manufacture of crocidolite-braided packing was 25 the production of a crocidolite-containing product 25 discontinued in 1980. The last shipment occurred in 37 (Pages 145 to 148) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 149 Page 151 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 the year 1981. In the case of compressed asbestos 2 A. I believe I would want to refer to our 3 crocidolite-containing gasketing, the last 3 standard Answers to Interrogatories where the 4 manufacture was in 1983. 4 question comes up as to whether Garlock ever resold 5 Q. I am talking about for any use, was 5 any of its products and had any rebranding 6 there ever any use of crocidolite asbestos fiber or 6 agreements. There were no rebranding agreements but 7 Blue African fiber after 1983? 7 there were some manufacturers also involved in the 8 A. No, sir. 8 fluid sealing business. I can think of SEPCO, I can 9 Q. Next go to number 11, 9 think of Anchor, those are the two that come to 10 "Asbestos-Containing products or materials placed in 10 mind. I believe there are -- 11 the stream of commerce by Garlock" and you and I 11 Q. Anchor Packing? 12 have talked previously about this to some degree so 12 A. Anchor Packing. 13 I am going to ask you a few specific questions about 13 Q. Any others that come to mind? 14 that. 14 A. Not that come to mind, no. 15 Besides gasketing and packing materials, 15 Q. Did Garlock ever sell insulation 16 Garlock also made an asbestos textile product, a 16 products either that it manufactured or that it 17 cloth-type material, correct? 17 purchased or was distributing for anybody else? 18 A. That is correct. 18 A. Not as that term is understood by me, 19 Q. And what year did that begin 19 no, sir. 20 approximately, when did that end approximately? 20 Q. If there was a Garlock, call it piece of 21 A. Well, the asbestos textile cloth 21 memorabilia, like a little light fixture type of 22 manufactured by Garlock was primarily used in the 22 thing and it said "Garlock insulation" on it, what 23 manufacturing of its other products. I don't know 23 would that mean? 24 when the first production of asbestos textiles 24 A. I don't know. 25 began. I know that the asbestos textile plant 25 Q. I am going to go to category number 15, Page 150 Page 152 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 located in Palmyra, New York was closed in 1975. 2 "Garlock sales activities directed towards El Paso 3 Q. And Garlock would sell that woven 3 Corp., El Paso Products and Union Carbide," okay? 4 asbestos fabric, though, as a product by itself, 4 A. Yes, sir. 5 true? 5 Q. Before the distributor network was 6 A. Impregnated with rubber, that would be a 6 created, did Garlock have like route salesmen or 7 typical sale. Most of the cloth would be used and 7 client representatives or account representatives, 8 consumed in the construction of products such as 8 whatever you want to call them, who would make 9 hydraulic components and gaskets, both of which 9 direct sales calls on customers and potential 10 would be rubber coated. Some sales of rubber coated 10 customers? 11 asbestos cloth would also have been made to other 11 A. Garlock had salesmen in the field. What 12 sophisticated users -- 12 route or what regularity they might have had in 13 Q. Just the cloth by itself? 13 calling on a customer, I don't know; but yes, 14 A. With the rubber impregnation, yes, sir. 14 Garlock was engaged in selling its products on a 15 Q. Who would the other users be you would 15 direct basis until 1969 or thereabouts. 16 sell that material to? 16 Q. Okay. Do you know who the salesmen were 17 A. People who might be involved in business 17 for Texas, start on a big level? 18 such as Garlock. In other words, fluid sealing 18 A. I know in the late 1960s Gordon Baker 19 manufacturers, perhaps people who only made -- what 19 was a salesman who covered portions of Texas. I 20 was generally referred to as boiler, hand hole and 20 don't know the names of anyone else who covered any 21 manhole products, yes. 21 other portions of Texas. 22 Q. What customer specifically, like BF 22 Q. Where does Mr. Baker live today? 23 Goodrich, was that a customer, Goodyear? 23 A. In the Houston area. 24 A. No. 24 Q. Is he currently employed by Garlock? 25 Q. Who would you all sell that to? 25 A. He is. 38 (Pages 149 to 152) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 153 Page 155 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 Q. What is his current job? 2 talk about a lot of things, so as far as the portion 3 A. As I testified to earlier, I am not sure 3 that might have been directed to El Paso Products, I 4 of his exact title. It might be manager of 4 would say a minute or two, probably. 5 specifications or something like that. He calls on 5 Q. Did he have any specific knowledge 6 design and engineering firms and design and 6 relevant to these years in issue for that facility? 7 construction firms such as Fluer Daniels, Jacobs 7 A. Nothing that I would call specific, he 8 Engineering and so forth and he works with those 8 recognized the name of El Paso Products. I believe 9 people to specify Garlock products. 9 that they may have purchased some Garlock products 10 Q. Okay. Do you know when he started the 10 but was unable to identify to me what those products 11 Garlock Company? 11 may have been. 12 A. Not specifically. I know that he has 12 Q. Okay. Asking it in real world bottom 13 more than 40 years but I don't know when he started. 13 line, is it worth us taking his deposition to get 14 Q. So sometime in the '60s? 14 more particulars or have you told us most of what he 15 A. Yes, sir. 15 conveyed to you already today? 16 Q. Any other salesmen that you know of for 16 A. That was my intent certainly, yes. 17 the State of Texas back in the '60s or '70s? 17 Q. You basically pass -- whatever you have 18 A. No, sir. 18 learned from him you have passed on to me today? 19 Q. Do you know one way or another -- do you 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 know one way or another whether there were any sales 20 Q. Is there anybody that you know that was 21 activities, literature, mailing solicitation 21 a Garlock -- responsible for the Garlock sales calls 22 letters, sales calls, anything specifically to El 22 to Union Carbide's Brownsville facility or the Union 23 Paso Products or Union Carbide? 23 Carbide company in general? 24 A. I don't know. 24 A. No, sir. 25 MR. HARRIS: Objection; form. I was 25 Q. Were there national level sales account Page 154 Page 156 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 thinking about the last question and the area of 2 reps like for a big company like Union Carbide that 3 inquiry is not tied to a date. 3 is a national global level company, would you all 4 MR. MUNDY: Let me get my question out 4 have somebody in the world headquarters that would 5 and then you can object. 5 make sales calls headquarter to headquarter type 6 Q. You spoke to Mr. Gordon Baker to help 6 level? 7 prepare for this deposition today, correct? 7 A. I have never heard of such a thing, no, 8 A. That is correct. 8 sir. 9 Q. And when did that conversation occur -- 9 MR. HARRIS: Excuse me, Counsel, time 10 actually, how many times have you spoken to him 10 period? 11 about the issues we are talking about today? 11 MR. MUNDY: In the '60s. 12 A. Twice that I can recall. 12 MR. HARRIS: I want to make sure you are 13 Q. When did that first one occur? 13 on the same page. 14 A. I believe in the middle of October. 15 Q. And when was the second time? 16 A. Just recently. 14 Q. Back in the '60s '70s? 15 A. That was my understanding. 16 Q. Same thing for El Paso Corp. or El Paso 17 Q. Like what, today, yesterday? 17 Natural Gasket, did you have like a headquarters 18 A. No, last weekend. 18 level sales rep or account person that would make a 19 Q. Have you met face to face to prepare? 20 A. No. 19 call to their headquarters level type people? 20 A. I don't believe so. 21 Q. Phone call? 21 Q. It was more out in the field at the 22 A. Yes, sir. 22 local level? 23 Q. How long did the phone calls last, 23 A. That is my understanding. 24 approximately? 24 Q. All right: 25 A. When Gordon and I get on the phone, we 25 MR. MUNDY: Thank you very much. I 39 (Pages 153 to 156) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 157 Page 159 1 JAMES HEFFRON - BY MR. MUNDY 2 appreciate it. 3 MR. HARRIS: Any questions? 4 MR. FLORES: No. 5 MR. HARRIS: Any questions on the phone? 6 MS. SMITH: No. 7 Q. I just want to ask a few general 8 questions. Have I given you an opportunity to 9 answer today? 0 A. Yes, I believe so. 1 Q. Have I been polite and courteous to you, 2 not exercised undue yelling and screaming so forth 3 at you, anything like that, have I? 4 A. No, you have not. 5 MR. MUNDY: I appreciate it very much. 6 Thank you, sir. 7 MR. HARRIS: We'll reserve our questions 8 at trial. 9 (TIME: 4:47 p.m.) 0 *** 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 EXHIBITS 3 Garlock 4 Number Description Page 5 ---------------------------------------------------------- 1 Notice of Deposition 4 6 2 Copy of Mr. Harris' objections 17 7 3-110 Garlock catalogs and publications 17 8 111 Garlock catalog 9 Bates Garlock 1532 through 1618 79 10 112 Documents produced by Huntsman Chemical 11 Bates HPOLYW 019009 104 12 113 Documents produced by Huntsman Chemical 13 Bates HPOLYW 17,387 page 395, 396, 397, 424, 426, 427, 431, 433, 435, 14 438, 396 and 397 17 108 15 * * * 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 158 Page 160 1 2 WITNESS ES 3 Name Examination by 4 5 James Heffron Mr. Mundy 6 7 8 9 0 1 Page 5-157 5 6 *** 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 DOC UMENT REQUESTS 3 Description Page 4 Sales records for what was sold to Gasket 5 Services in 1974 91 6 7 8 9 10 ** 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 40 (Pages 157 to 160) HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 161 1 2 ACKNOWLEDGEMENT 3 4 I, James Heffron, acknowledge that I 5 have read my testimony in the above deposition and 6 that my answers are true and correct, with any 7 exceptions noted on the errata sheet. 8 9 10 James Heffron 11 12 I certify that this deposition was 13 signed in my presence bv lames Heffron on the 14 dav of , 2007. 15 16 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set 17 my hand and affixed my seal of office of Rochester, 18 New York on this day of , 2007. 19 20 21 Notary Public 22 23 24 My Commission Expires: 25 Page 162 1 2 C ERTIFI CATIO N 3 STATE OF NEW YORK: COUNTY OF MONROE: 5 I, JOANNE N. PERO, being a Freelance 6 Court Reporter and Notary Public in and for Monroe 7 County, New York, do hereby certify that I reported 8 in machine shorthand the testimony of the witness 9 called in the above-styled cause; that the said 10 witness was duly sworn by me; and that the foregoing 11 pages were typed by computer-assisted transcription 12 under my personal supervision and constitute a true 13 record of the testimony in this proceeding. 14 I further certify that I am not an 15 attorney or counsel of any parties, nor a relative 16 or employee of any attorney or counsel connected 17 with the action, nor financially interested in the 18 action. 19 WITNESS my hand in the City of 20 Rochester, County of Monroe, State of New York. 21 24 Joanne N. Pero Freelance Court Reporter and 25 Notary Public in and for Monroe County, New York HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO 41 (Pages 161 to 162) JAMES HEFFRON Page 163 A abbreviation 26:5 105:10 ABC 47:13 ability 6:10 19:19 60:14 88:22 89:5,10 90:16 139:12 able 66:19 76:24 91:12 92:13 126:19 136:3 above-styled 162:9 absence 122:10 Absolutely 114:12 access 139:7,12,18 account 68:14,14 69:19 152:7 155:25 156:18 accounting 94:25 accounts 68:20 accurate 22:11 25:4 34:21 37:17 73:8 86:24 103:13 121:5 140:14,15 141:11 accurately 72:24 achieve 54:17 acid 99:3,4,24,25 102:14,19,20,20 103:3,12,16,17 108:7 108:14,19 110:14 111:3,7,11,15,24 112:9,12,15,19,22 113:25,25 114:19,21 114:23 116:8,8,11,11 116:13 117:7,13,14 140:20,20 141:6,12 141:14,18,25 142:7 acids 102:10 116:3 acknowledge 161:4 acquired 25:12 32:7 acquisition 40:6 acronym 103:24 acting 74:24 action 162:17,18 activities 9:17 10:3 11:14,20,22 13:17 17:14,16 152:2 153:21 activity 9:23,25 11:24 12:22 acts 127:5 actual 14:20 148:4 ad 32:23 34:20,22 adamant 122:18 add 15:22 21:24 35:9 36:24 115:3 added 70:13 82:8 addition 15:6 75:9 80:9 130:2 additional 39:15,17 47:19 119:9 147:12 address 42:9 adequate 7:21 adipic 99:4,24 102:20 103:12,17 111:15 113:25 116:8,11 117:7,14 140:20 141:14,17,25 142:7 admissible 92:3 ads 33:22 advantage 18:4 69:7 advertisement 36:21 advertising 11:5 32:25 34:6 37:2,11 51:6 61:13 advertising-type 33:7 affiliated 49:18 affixed 147:25 161:17 African 103:15 110:20 110:23 111:4,8,12,16 112:3,6,10,14,18,21 112:25 113:3,6 114:3 116:16 117:12,24 119:14 123:21 126:6 126:15 130:4 131:4,7 132:9 133:4,8 141:5 141:15 142:21 148:22 149:7 agency 135:11 agent 122:5 132:23 agree 4:25 35:19 57:23 85:25 87:8 116:18 agreement 66:18 67:8 67:11 71:15 agreements 151:6,6 ahead 51:25 73:21 79:12 aid 43:4 al 1:8,16 2:9 75:20,21 75:22 97:15,16 alive 50:7 Alliance 2:21 allow 45:2,23 47:20 119:5 122:21 147:11 allowed 21:21 66:10 allows 28:5 37:9 116:4 118:23 alternative 116:7 118:18 141:24 alternatives 141:23 amended 6:2 95:9 America 3:11 Americas 3:8 amount 115:12 Anchor 151:9,11,12 annual 80:12 answer 19:15 21:21 37:9 68:25 148:11,12 157:9 answers 75:11 80:18 85:19,22 86:2,7,23 87:10 151:3 161:6 anti-stick 122:7 anybody 50:5,7 151:17 155:20 anyplace 51:21 Anyway 25:20 39:20 91:4 apart 98:20 apologize 125:2 apparently 35:4 appear 26:24 33:11 41:17 43:24 44:8,14 48:8 56:3 57:6 59:5 61:19 79:4 110:13 125:15,23 appearances 4:6 38:7 71:11 74:3 86:13 99:7 113:14 133:16 136:19 appeared 73:12 125:25 127:2 appearing 3:2,6,9,13 35:4 74:10,14 134:16 appears 20:4 23:20 26:19 27:4,21 34:21 36:19 41:21,25 48:11 55:8 106:21 114:4 117:17 application 9:11 47:16 103:25 108:20 116:8 119:10 141:16 142:19,19 applications 140:25 141:2,6 applies 90:3 appreciate 87:17 157:2,15 approach 15:25 appropriate 35:16 57:9 58:11 90:3 108:6 114:19 141:9 approximately 8:15,17 10:13 11:10 12:25 13:20 14:16,25 16:3 16:17 20:7 22:9 98:23,24 135:23 143:7 149:20,20 154:24 AR 58:20 area 9:7 10:12,18 11:17,25 51:8,15 65:14 66:5,17,23 67:2,10 68:18 70:9 70:14 75:20 83:9 91:5,8,10 96:13 97:16 98:11 144:2,17 145:5,6,8 146:18 148:2,4 152:23 154:2 areas 6:14 52:6 132:19 arrive 146:9 arrives 146:7 artwork 22:19 29:13 39:22 45:2,4 50:13 61:8,16 asbestos 1:18 7:5 12:15 16:9 26:3 41:6 51:11 56:5 74:25 90:7,8 95:10 103:15 104:14 108:20,22,25 110:20,25 111:5,9,13 111:17 112:3,6,10,14 112:18,21,25 113:6,7 114:3 115:13 116:12 116:16 117:12 118:24 119:7,14 121:21 123:21 125:8 125:8,14 126:4,6,15 127:2 129:12,20 130:4,9,10 131:5,8 131:12 133:4,8 135:8 135:12 137:3,11 138:4 139:7 141:5,15 141:23 144:4,10,19 144:20 145:10 146:2 146:3,5,7,15 148:5 148:22,22 149:2,6,16 149:21,24,25 150:4 150:11 asbestos-containing 25:21 35:17 92:11 93:19 94:9 132:4,10 142:8 146:22 149:10 asbestos-free 28:15 35:16 41:15,22 42:2 44:18 asbestos-related 134:14,18 135:3,16 143:3,7 asked 39:9 75:2,14 83:9 88:25 97:19 118:11 123:15,25 138:24 asking 17:18 22:2 29:14 53:23 88:10 98:14,14 118:2,4 124:23 155:12 assigned 89:25 assignment 136:2 associated 9:17 12:22 13:17 14:11 15:21 Association 72:17 assume 58:11 98:22 99:20 103:2 105:9 115:6,9,16 121:9,14 122:16 assuming 6:25 assure 50:6 asterisk 46:4 ATI 138:10,24,24,25 attached 4:17 attempt 15:19 46:15 71:2 76:15 attempts 54:2,2 57:7 attorney 77:24,25 79:23 162:15,16 attributes 16:24 August 8:18 12:2 14:6 20:6 Austin 3:4 authentic 73:12 authenticate 76:14 136:5 authentication 134:14 authorization 11:21 authorized 10:18 11:17 63:21 97:24 98:10 auto 42:16 available 17:19 60:21 80:6 82:10 114:20 Avenue 3:3,15 avoid 44:2 award 54:18 aware 34:5 51:8 52:7 93:8 116:15 a-d-i-p-i-c 99:4 A-l 75:23 a.m 2:18 4:3 38:5,6 B B 28:6 159:2 back 12:2,20 14:17 15:2 16:20 17:23 21:25 23:25 24:24 30:3 31:20 40:4 47:3 50:8 58:10,16 59:21 HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 164 61:9,21,22 82:5 88:7 88:16 91:24 107:18 107:18,25 108:5,7,14 113:10 115:22 118:3 118:4 120:14 121:16 122:22 124:14,21 125:10 126:8 127:10 127:19 129:7 141:10 142:19 146:8 147:18 153:17 156:14 background 35:23 backing 52:8 backslash 44:17 bag 146:13,18,22 147:19,19,22 bags 148:5,8 Baker 70:19,20,21 75:19 152:18,22 154:6 ball 48:5 Bank 3:11 based 37:21,23,23 39:22,24 58:24 73:14 86:22 87:9 96:9 141:17 142:7 143:17 basic 12:19 37:10 72:5 125:4 basically 16:22 25:25 81:12 102:6 155:17 basis 68:22 80:13 152:15 bat 7:10 Bates 27:13 32:22 33:18 35:2,25 36:2,4 36:10,11 37:13 38:14 55:25 56:6,12,19,23 57:10 58:21 60:4,7 60:10,15 79:8 104:25 109:7,12 159:9,11,13 Beaumont 3:16 began 23:11 61:12 62:9,15,17 65:25 69:20,25 81:15 149:25 beginning 120:10 begins 89:24 behalf 3:2,6,9,13 5:20 95:16 101:2 113:19 115:20 118:5,15 131:18 132:7 138:7 beholder 119:3 belief 102:6 126:12 147:21 believe 6:2 12:25 21:13 21:22 23:17,20 24:7 26:3,21 27:9,10,16 27:18,20,22 29:8,24 31:11,12 32:19 36:10 37:19 38:24 40:2,15 40:20 41:11 42:4 44:6,11,21 48:20 49:3,10 52:16 54:16 54:18,19 59:7,8 65:5 65:7 69:21 73:14 76:3 77:8 78:8 79:6 79:17 80:4 81:17 83:2,8,13,19 84:15 86:6 87:15 88:2 91:9 92:14,21 93:6 95:6 103:7,9 107:5,5 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bought 25:9 54:11 62:3 Bowling 75:8 119:24 132:14 Bowling's 84:8 85:12 box 7:12 17:25 73:24 braid 144:17 braided 45:6 122:5 123:19 144:10,12,14 148:23 braiders 144:16 brand 101:4,15,16,19 103:3 113:21,24 116:25 117:6 131:20 133:9 branded 50:20,21 52:11 branding 53:8 brass 147:15 break 58:2 71:8 91:3 98:20 100:24 113:17 129:9 breakdown 131:16 brings 17:2 brochure 42:4 80:21 81:6 82:12 brochures 42:5 75:3 80:17 81:23 brought 77:25 78:2,13 Brownsville 63:13,23 64:3,9 96:19 97:14 97:20,23 98:16 131:21 132:5 155:22 budget 54:17 Buffalo 10:13 bulk-type 68:14 bulldozer 14:4 Burke 2:14 burlap 146:10 business 8:20 9:22 11:3 14:8,9 24:12,17 24:19 31:17 63:4,20 68:25 150:17 151:8 buy 10:2 46:10,11 66:25 67:4 buying 63:6 69:8 C C 3:1 4:1 160:2 161:2 162:2,2 Calder 3:15 caliper 50:19 52:9,14 53:3,7,9,14,18 54:3,7 55:11 61:14 call 12:6 19:22 26:9 34:14,15 37:22 42:8 47:10 58:3 61:8 65:8 81:6,24 82:13 92:8 120:25 127:7 129:5 147:12 151:20 152:8 154:21 155:7 156:19 called 5:8 9:16 12:7 13:22 15:3,17 16:13 16:21 44:4 52:12 57:10 64:14 103:24 128:13 162:9 calling 10:14 152:13 calls 70:23 152:9 153:5 153:22 154:23 155:21 156:5 CAMERON 2:3 Canadian 125:8 cancellation 11:21 capacity 5:19 10:24 12:24 13:4,12 16:2 16:14,16 17:2 car 66:21 Carbide 63:12,23 64:3 64:9 96:19 97:13,20 97:22 98:2,16 131:21 132:4,23 152:3 153:23 155:23 156:2 Carbide's 155:22 carbon 26:20 44:3,5 45:6 129:21 care 134:15,18 career 17:10 Carl 84:10 carpet 102:9 cart 147:12,23 case 6:18,20 9:10 10:19 31:7 38:18 74:14 75:13 81:5 83:7 86:7,20,23 87:7 87:9,10,24 89:18 93:5,6 95:6 98:20,22 100:7 115:4 119:22 120:22 121:11 123:14 132:13 146:15 148:23 149:2 cases 39:5 74:8 83:8 85:21 137:15 140:10 142:24 143:15 147:15 catalog 7:18 17:18 19:21,21 20:8 22:15 22:17,18 23:17 24:5 24:8,10 26:2,15,23 27:15 28:14 29:24 30:3,9 31:7 34:2 41:10 42:2,4,6,6,9 43:2,15 52:21,25 55:8 60:2 72:11 76:20,25 77:8,12,18 77:21,25 78:5,7,7,12 80:5,9 81:3,5,17 82:4 82:6,12,21 83:23,24 85:4,4 87:19,20 137:16 159:8 catalogs 7:12,16 17:13 17:25 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149:24 154:13 fish 117:11 125:18 fit 128:17 129:2,3 five 95:3,8 129:25 fixture 151:21 flange 104:5 142:6 flanges 128:17 flash 112:5 flat 18:8 128:16,24 flexibility 130:15 flexible 12:17 floor 147:23 Flores 3:10 157:4 Fluer 71:2 153:7 fluid 72:17 150:18 151:8 focal 17:11 focus 17:11 83:11 HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 168 109:24 focused 83:20 focusing 42:10 folks 69:11 followed 46:3 following 4:8 17:8,21 79:14 104:16 109:3 follows 5:9 Ford 46:10,11,18,19 66:22 foregoing 162:10 form 8:6,7 18:16,18 21:2,12 22:3,13,22 23:6,8,16,24 24:6 25:11 28:22 29:19 30:5,19,21 31:3 32:2 32:6,13 34:4,7 42:20 46:13 48:19 51:24 61:17 63:7 73:20 83:25 93:14 94:2 102:22 103:18 106:14 107:16 108:9 108:17 114:9 115:24 116:20 117:20 118:8 118:20 122:3,25 124:16 126:23 128:20 129:18 131:22 132:11 133:10 135:9 136:6 143:25 145:3,22 153:25 formal 51:22 forming 92:23 formula 129:22 forth 10:5 12:12 14:14 14:23 17:19 22:19 54:20 75:6 102:12 119:11 130:12 142:6 153:8 157:12 forward 82:7 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27:20 38:11 105:10 106:5,9 114:4 117:18 120:18 orders 9:17 10:4 70:6 105:9 Organization 10:11 orientation 15:16 origin 25:5 49:24 original 8:23 10:2 13:3 13:6,23 23:10 32:24 50:12 67:25 68:16,22 77:8 137:17,18 originally 16:21 49:18 97:17 Osborn 2:14 outside 45:21 121:22 135:5,10 148:19 ovals 128:16 overalls 148:18 overlap 6:24 owner 105:7,8 110:10 owners 63:3 P P 3:1,1 4:1,1 pack 57:15 package 34:2 packing 8:20 11:2 14:8 22:6 35:18 44:10 50:3 68:12 107:14 122:6,24 123:7,7,9 123:13,15 124:21 125:10 127:11,23 128:13 131:8 144:3,3 148:23,24 149:15 151:11,12 packings 44:5 45:6 123:19,22 125:22 127:17 128:3 page 19:21 28:2,3,4,12 28:16 32:21 33:4,5,6 33:7,8,16,16 34:11 34:15,16 35:20 36:11 36:15 40:4 46:4 47:3 47:4,4 48:13,13 54:24 58:10,17 61:9 105:2 109:13 110:19 111:4,8,11,15 156:13 158:3 159:4,13 160:3 pages 19:20 27:17,19 55:24 56:3,9 92:16 92:19,20 95:3 162:11 paint 60:19 Palmyra 12:4 14:18 51:14,21 138:2 139:16 150:2 paper 42:14 55:4 57:15 papers 33:2 parent 136:13 park 48:6 Parks 140:21 part 14:23 15:20 17:13 24:12,18,21,21 51:10 65:18 82:20 102:11 103:19,20 107:10 129:21 131:15 particular 9:22 20:3 27:9 42:11 61:24 67:9 72:11 83:3,9 89:9 90:10,12,18 110:15 130:24 131:2 131:3 particularly 81:4 101:8 particulars 155:14 parties 162:15 parts 16:23 42:16 Paso 1:8 64:14,14,15 64:15,16,17,19,22 65:3,8 88:3,8 95:17 99:12 100:6 101:5 104:23 106:8 113:21 114:17,22 115:22 117:2 140:21 152:2,3 153:23 155:3,8 156:16,16 pass 155:17 passed 155:18 passing 23:21 24:3 27:6 Paul 136:10 139:25 pause 32:18 51:18 78:22 109:25 pen 18:13 Pennsylvania 60:25 people 14:20 45:19 47:9 63:20 66:15 68:4 70:25 84:24 123:17 150:17,19 153:9 156:19 HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 173 percent 130:5,13,22 131:4 percentage 124:17 130:3,20 131:7,12 percentages 131:10 period 7:17 28:20 30:22 31:6,14,24 32:10 35:11 36:17 37:20 45:3 55:18 61:14,16 65:4 66:3 67:14 80:23 96:7 99:24 101:6,18 103:11 122:6 156:10 periods 69:6 permanently 95:10 Pero 2:20 162:5,24 person 8:25 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84:5 84:6,10,13,16 85:6 85:15,18,19,20 86:5 100:8,18 101:25 102:4,5 106:16,22 107:6 111:19,23 117:22 120:3,9,11,16 121:11,12 132:13 133:24 134:3 142:10 161:5 reading 84:19 99:16 100:11 101:24 103:5 120:10 133:11 ready 5:5 17:24 real 33:3 95:14 125:4 137:5 155:12 realize 118:3 really 7:2 30:24 50:22 51:6 63:2 81:15 89:21 90:9,16 93:15 122:11 134:20 reask 86:16 87:6 reason 55:3 67:7 71:22 93:4 101:3,16,21,22 103:8,19 107:4 113:18,20,23 114:6 115:18 117:23 133:12 reasonable 7:17 18:6 21:4,11 22:2,10,21 23:14,22 24:5 28:9 29:16 30:17 37:20 59:13 72:10 73:16 97:12 103:13 122:22 reboiler 112:5,15 rebranding 151:5,6 recall 30:6 43:17 54:9 54:21,21 60:20 76:8 83:18 84:12,18,19,21 99:19 102:7 133:11 154:12 receive 54:18 received 38:23 39:3 45:22 recessed 38:5 71:9 73:25 86:11 99:5 113:12 133:14 136:17 reciprocating 12:11 recognize 22:23 29:13 33:10 37:10 57:2 recognized 155:8 recommendation 142:4 recommendations 103:23 104:7 reconvened 4:3 38:6 71:10 74:2 86:12 99:6 113:13 133:15 136:18 record 4:7 7:9,13,19 71:16,21 72:25 73:9 73:23 86:10 95:11,24 95:25 97:7 136:16,23 136:24,25 162:13 recorded 89:15 records 88:6,8,12 90:5 90:6,19 91:12 92:22 94:12,16,19,24,25 95:2,2,5,7,9,12,13,22 96:20,21 97:5 137:8 137:9,10,23 139:6,15 139:18 160:4 Reed 2:14 refer 9:15 30:4 75:3 85:23 151:2 reference 100:11 118:25 referenced 120:17,18 122:4 137:21 referred 8:14 12:7,16 12:17 66:16 67:25 68:2 78:13 150:20 referring 79:5,7 88:11 refers 30:4 REF-CHEM 1:16 regardless 134:19 region 65:22 66:11 regional 11:12 regular 108:12 regularity 152:12 reinforced 16:9 related 134:3,13 136:12 137:2 139:13 relating 137:10 relationship 25:2 68:17 69:22 relative 31:8 48:11 162:15 relegated 84:2 relevant 46:17 135:7 155:6 rely 45:4 remain 6:24 80:15 remainder 33:9 100:5 130:6 remained 147:13 remaining 133:20 147:16 remember 6:18,20,21 75:7 76:15 86:25 100:9,10,11,20 102:24,24 103:5 132:22 rep 47:9 156:18 repair 10:11 11:24 62:21 67:24 68:6,8 report 93:9 115:3 reported 2:20 162:7 reporter 20:12 162:6 162:24 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74:24 93:13 resume 53:18 resumed 53:13 resumes 38:8 71:12 74:4 86:14 99:8 113:15 133:17 136:20 retail 62:5 69:10 retained 51:10 retention 94:20 95:8 returned 8:18 9:21 review 75:10 76:12 86:22,24 87:9 92:22 93:3,8,15,17 136:3 140:12 reviewed 75:4 76:10 76:20 91:17 92:24 93:7 119:22 140:14 143:19 reviewing 90:6 re-plow 6:22 RICHARD 1:19 2:4 right 7:9 10:6 19:7 20:15 21:8 25:20 27:12 28:16 30:8,12 40:18 60:5 65:21 68:15,21 73:6 81:21 88:9 91:23 94:7 100:2 107:7 109:22 113:17 118:2 122:20 124:8 127:15 131:14 156:24 Riley 3:9 ring 36:14 Rochester 2:15,23 77:15 91:22 135:21 137:14 138:12 161:17 162:20 rods 12:11 Roggli 115:4,7,10 role 7:24 92:23 roll 128:15,18,24 rolled 128:21 Ron 85:5 87:20 101:24 142:10 rotate 147:5 rotates 147:10 roughly 46:11,20 route 152:6,12 rubber 12:14,14,17 13:22,22 15:7,9 16:7 16:8,9 130:11,12 150:6,10,10,14 rubber-covered 14:3 rule 4:14,15 62:6 88:19 133:5,5 ruler 50:20 52:10,14 53:3,7,10,14,18 54:3 54:7 55:11 61:15 Rules 4:11 run 34:22 40:17 93:9 145:2,2,18,21 running 13:17 32:22 S S 3:1 4:1 158:2,2,2 159:2 160:2,2 sacks 146:10 safely 48:23 safety 14:12 sale 62:5 63:6 97:6 150:7 sales 8:13,19,21,24,25 9:13,16,22 10:25 11:13,15,18,20,23 12:5,21 13:2 22:5 43:4 45:18 47:9 62:12,12,14 65:10 67:11,15,21 68:3,7 69:2 75:17 88:2,5,6,8 88:19,23,24 89:6,14 89:20 90:7,7,8,18 91:12 93:16,17,18,25 94:5,16,17 95:2,6,11 95:13 96:11,20 124:17 137:9,20,20 137:23 139:15,18 150:10 152:2,9 153:20,22 155:21,25 156:5,18 160:4 salesman 10:10,12 43:20 46:10,18 152:19 salesmen 43:15 54:17 152:6,11,16 153:16 samples 52:4 sanctions 19:9 21:8 satisfactory 140:19,22 140:24 141:5,10,16 141:20,21,25 142:9 142:18 saw 142:11 saying 33:6 34:3 38:12 46:7,10,24 47:10 48:22 55:11 81:11 84:19,21 87:17 88:11 96:9,11 104:9,10 108:12 118:5 134:20 139:20 147:18 says 21:13 24:2,7 27:9 27:10,13,23 28:14,19 29:12 31:12 35:3,4 35:22 40:20 41:11,14 41:16 42:11 44:2,12 44:16 45:15 46:5 56:4 57:4 58:7 59:4 60:2,16 79:10 105:8 105:13 106:24 107:4 107:5,7 110:19 111:24 112:2 117:23 133:12 140:18 SBR 104:14 Schachter 3:7 school 42:14 screaming 157:12 Seaboard 9:9 seal 37:21 161:17 sealing 1:24 2:9 3:6 4:13 5:16 12:11 24:13,16,18 28:15 44:18 72:17 150:18 151:8 seals 12:12,13 14:3 15:8 30:13 search 88:2,5,5,22 89:5,8,10,12,22 91:4 92:5 93:16 95:19,23 searched 88:7 searches 140:3 second 28:2 36:15 40:13 47:3,4 49:6 61:21 86:10 105:5 136:16 154:15 secondary 111:24 secret 93:24,24 section 120:16 see 22:4 28:13 37:8 42:13 46:24,25 49:5 49:6 52:22 54:25 55:14 56:25 58:12,13 59:4 77:18 78:5 88:7 92:10 104:7 105:4,20 106:13,19,19,21 110:3 111:21 126:19 136:3,4 139:5 seeing 54:21,21 83:18 86:25 seek 19:9 seeking 21:8 seen 5:24 34:17 43:17 52:2,21,25 53:23 54:16,19 78:14 79:21 80:13 83:13 85:3 87:21 99:18 105:17 106:4,7 107:22 114:2 115:3 116:3 117:10 117:17 118:22 119:15,20 132:18 138:6 Segal 38:12,19 39:3,5 39:11 105:25 110:12 selected 81:7 102:4 120:2 sell 62:10,15 63:4 65:22 66:7,10,19 68:15,20,21 69:12,20 69:24 150:3,16,25 151:15 selling 63:12 64:5 65:7 69:15,18 82:7 92:11 98:8,16 152:14 sending 138:18 Senior 16:18 sense 35:21 63:18 73:6 separate 24:11,17 31:17 33:5 39:5 55:2 82:21 142:24 separately 33:4 142:24 SEPCO 151:8 September 10:25 16:3 series 96:16 98:21 109:20 118:10 serves 60:3 service 8:15 9:15,22 45:18 46:3,5,5 114:19,21 116:13,13 135:6 141:12 serviced 63:24 services 65:17 70:9 71:6 91:9,13 92:12 93:20 94:10 96:2,5 114:23 119:8 160:5 set 18:9 39:8 127:15 161:16 setting 6:17 seven 12:18 129:14 shapes 128:25 share 104:18,24 109:6 sheet 12:15 35:18 52:15 55:20 56:4,5 82:18 104:14 107:14 110:15 127:12,14,14 128:9,13,20 129:5,9 129:12,20 144:18,19 144:20 145:10 146:5 146:16 161:7 sheeter 145:12 sheeters 144:18 shell 147:3,20 shipment 148:25 shiv 147:14 shorthand 162:8 show 38:10 57:7 109:6 117:12 140:24 showed 48:25 showing 26:25 61:11 shown 27:8 106:16 110:5 shows 19:23 29:6 40:13 45:25 46:20 56:17 58:22 60:24 83:5 89:19 110:15 shut 61:2 side 9:14 18:10 139:11 sign 62:17 65:25 signed 64:6 65:17 66:4 69:25 71:6 161:13 silicone 122:9 125:17 similar 10:3 13:21 14:10 15:3 33:11 46:16 49:20 58:8 59:5 simple 9:11 simply 55:9 94:3,12 single 32:19 33:8 37:5 118:23 Singley 3:3 36:4 38:25 single-sheet 33:7 sir 5:11,13,23 17:16,20 22:12 23:4 25:24 34:13,24 36:3,6,23 40:8 41:7,24 51:17 52:2 56:21 60:4,18 67:13,19 70:7,10,12 71:19 78:4 86:18 89:7 93:11 95:19 96:17 98:25 105:4 107:17 109:11 116:22 117:16 119:16,19 120:7,23 124:18 125:9 127:16 128:8,11 129:6 130:17 131:6,17 133:22 134:22 135:4 135:14,18 138:8 141:3,7 142:22 143:4 146:12,16 147:21 148:17 149:8 150:14 151:19 152:4 153:15 153:18 154:22 155:19,24 156:8 157:16 HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON Page 176 sit 84:23 94:7 95:15 101:2 107:6 118:5,14 site 87:2,3,22,23 90:18 90:22 92:7 96:6,16 96:19 97:3 98:8,23 140:13 sites 86:4 87:12 140:8 situation 87:3 situations 86:4 size 69:18 104:2 Slaughter 75:7 100:9 Slaughter's 84:7 85:5 87:20 99:16 101:24 102:5,6 142:10 slow 17:24 small 26:18 124:17 smiling 64:21 142:14 Smith 3:14 5:2 157:6 Sodus 11:3 14:8 29:7 sold 13:5,23 24:24 25:9 62:4,21 64:2 65:7 67:9 88:24 89:18 91:12 92:16 93:20 94:9,14 95:16 95:17 96:13 97:2,8,9 98:13 160:4 solicitation 153:21 somebody 136:2 156:4 somewhat 134:13 son 85:8 119:23 121:12 132:22 sophisticated 89:13 150:12 sorry 60:8 75:14,25 95:7 108:25 124:22 141:22 sorted 143:16 sounds 123:6 source 134:19 South 76:4 southwest 11:12 so-so 49:5 spare 112:16,16 speak 5:20 6:6 speaking 101:2 113:19 131:18 132:7 134:23 spec 109:21 110:15 special 15:9 100:4,11 100:13,20 119:2,2,4 specific 4:20 11:7 70:22 74:7 75:2 86:3 86:8 87:2,11,13,21 90:10 100:10 101:4 104:6 115:2 124:4 140:13 143:8 149:13 155:5,7 specifically 6:20 8:19 25:19 32:8,20 75:16 76:15 92:24 93:3 103:10 105:21 108:11 119:14 132:25 140:9 145:6 150:22 153:12,22 specification 45:22 56:5 112:2 specifications 107:23 114:2 153:5 specified 71:3 112:17 112:20,23 114:2,15 117:12 specifies 110:20 111:4 111:8,12,16 112:6,10 specify 112:13 119:13 153:9 specimens 52:5 specs 110:13 117:10,14 117:14 119:13,15 speculate 21:6 29:5 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1829:23 1832:22 1887 30:16 19 15:12 31:5 1937 137:17,18 1950s 32:5 1960s 18:7 41:4 62:9 62:16 64:9 68:7 78:8 81:21 98:17 103:11 108:5 116:9,9 152:18 1964 65:4 80:4,6,17 82:6,6 83:24 87:20 95:18 98:24 1965 39:25 1968 50:22 52:10,12 52:15,16 53:6 60:23 80:19 1969 65:15,17 71:7 152:15 1970s 57:12 61:2 64:10 81:21 98:17 103:12 116:9 1972 8:13 9:6 23:12 62:20 69:15 1974 8:16 47:5 65:4 88:7,12,13,16,18,23 90:12,19,22 91:4,8 91:13 92:6,12,19 93:21,25 94:9,13,17 95:11,20,22,24 98:24 142:25 160:5 1975 8:18 45:7,9 57:16 92:9,19 93:21,25 95:18,24 150:2 1976 10:10 31:12 32:8 32:10 35:11 40:7 61:5,19 72:4 1977 27:10,11,23 1979 10:25 56:5,7,18 59:16 63:24,25 94:23 95:9,11 97:18,22 98:3 137:9 1980 22:8 35:8,8,13 36:19 43:7,9,10,11 55:21,21 58:24,25 72:5 148:25 1980s 21:23 32:25 33:19 34:22 37:3,12 37:22,25 43:9,13 44:6 64:7 1981 11:9,10 44:21 149:2 1982 12:2 23:20 1983149:4,7 1984 21:13 22:10 1985 12:25 1986 20:18 HG LITIGATION SERVICES 1-800-656-DEPO JAMES HEFFRON 1987 13:9 30:17 31:2 1988 27:4 1989 13:20 26:21,24 199.1 4:14 199.2(b)1 4:15 1990 14:6 24:14 25:23 87:19 1990s 29:8 30:7 77:9 77:10 78:7 83:23 85:4 1991 24:2 26:15 1993 44:6,8 1994 20:6,10,15 1996 14:16 1997 14:25 1999 15:6,12 2 2 17:6,9 134:17 159:6 2:19 71:10 2:24 73:25 2:2874:2 2:4486:11 2:45 86:12 20 20:5 31:13 48:24 143:10 20,000 20:7 2000 16:3 2004-02-888-B 2:7 2004-55629 1:22 2005 16:17 2005-53919-71:7,14 2007 2:17 4:2 95:15 96:21 101:3 161:14 161:18 21 32:14 34:11,14 21.1 34:15,16 21.2 34:16,25 21.335:20 21.436:9,10 21.5 36:20 2165 38:14 22 38:10 23 39:20 2300 3:8 24 27:13 40:9 25 40:19 26 40:21 2615 3:15 27 41:5 2841:9 29 41:14 3 3 17:22 18:13 20:10 49:7,7,10,11 140:6 3-inch 106:10 3-110 159:7 3:0399:5 3:12 99:6 3:32113:12 3:36113:13 30 41:19 30-something 29:14 31 41:25 32 42:25 43:10 33 43:23 34 43:25 35 44:7 35-year 29:15 3500 3:11 3540 30:5 36 44:13 37 44:15 38 44:23 39 45:12 395 109:13 159:13 396 109:13,14 159:13 159:14 397 109:13,14 159:13 159:14 4 4 20:14,15 40:11 44:17 49:7,7 106:5,10,25 107:3,4 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