Document RJVe7bNKJyZVNk9EGZB1aX6OE

FILE NAME: AT&T and other Phone Companies (ATT) DATE: 2008 July 25 DOC#: ATT034 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Deposition of CP Lichtenwalner - AIHA 1 1 SUPERIOR COURT OFNEW JERSEY LAW DIVISION: MIDDLESEX COUNTY 2 DOCKET NO. L-5469-07 (AS) 3 4 PHILIP & KAREN DEGNAN, 5 Plaintiff, 6 vs. VIDEOTAPE DEPOSITION UNDER ORAL EXAMINATION OF CHARLES P. LICHTENWALNER 7 ALCATEL LUCENT, et al, 8 Defendant(s). 9 10 11 TRANSCRIPT of the deposition of the witness called for Oral Examination in the 12 above-captioned matter, said deposition being taken pursuant to Superior Court Rules of 13 Practice and Procedure by and before RACHEL SANTIAGO, a Notary Public and Shorthand 14 Reporter of the State of New Jersey, at the offices of THACHER, PROFFITT & WOOD, 25 15 DeForest Avenue, Summit, New Jersey on Friday, July 25, 2008, commencing at approximately 16 10:00 in the forenoon. 17 18 19 20 21 22 BRODY DEPOSITION SERVICES Certified Shorthand Reporters and Videographers 23 90 Woodbridge Center Drive, Suite 220 Woodbridge, New Jersey 07095 24 (732) 283-5737 25 EXHIBIT | CD Castleman Dec - Pfulb v. AT&TY 114 SC-PHONE-7250 2 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 COHEN, PLACITELLA & ROTH, P.C. 4 127 Maple Avenue 5 Red Bank, New Jersey 07701 6 (732) 747-9003 7 BY: CHRISTOPHER PLACITELLA, ESQ. 8 Attorneys for Plaintiff 9 10 LAW OFFICE JOHN McGOWAN, LLC 11 54 Main Street 12 Chatham, New Jersey 07928 13 (973) 507-9511 14 BY: JOHN McGOWAN, ESQ. 15 Attorneys for Defendant, Deponent Lucent 16 17 THACHER, PROFFITT & WOOD 18 25 DeForest Avenue 19 Summit, New Jersey 07901 20 (908) 598-5700 21 BY: ROBERT L. HORNBY, ESQ. 22 Attorneys for Defendant, Deponent Lucent 23 24 25 3 1 A P P E A R A N C E S (Cont'd) : 2 3 Mcelroy, deutsch, mulvaney & carpenter, l l p , 4 1300 Mount Kemble Avenue 5 Morristown, New Jersey 07962 6 (973) 993-8100 7 BY: MICHELLE HYDRUSKO, ESQ. 8 Attorneys for Defendant, Railroad Construction 9 Company, Inc. 10 11 LAVIN, O'NEIL, RICCI, CEDRONE & DISIPIO 12 190 North Independence Mall West 13 Suite 500 14 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19106 15 (215) 627-0303 16 BY: BASIL A. DiSIPIO, ESQ. 17 Attorney for Defendant, 3M Company 18 19 RIKER, DANZIG, SCHERER, HYLAND, PERRETTI, LLP 20 Headquarters Plaza 21 One Speedwell Avenue 22 Morristown, New Jersey 07962 23 (973) 538-0800 24 BY: KELLY CRAWFORD, ESQ. 25 Attorneys for Defendant, AT&T 4 1 A P P E A R A N C E S (Cont'd): 2 3 MARGOLIS EDELSTEIN 4 216 Haddon Avenue 5 Westmont, New Jersey 08108 6 (856) 858-7200 7 BY: RYAN M. KOOI, ESQ. 8 Attorneys for Defendant, John Crane 9 10 KENT & McBRIDE, P.C. 11 555 Route 1 South, 12 Woodbridge Towers, 4th Floor 13 Iselin, New Jersey 08830 14 (732) 326-1711 15 BY: STEPHEN DENARO, ESQ. 16 Attorneys for Defendant, T. J. McGlone 17 18 CONNELL FOLEY, LLP 19 85 Livingston Avenue 20 Roseland, New Jersey 07068 21 (973) 535-0500 22 BY: MEGAN ROBERTS, ESQ. 23 Attorneys for Defendant, Frank A. McBride 24 25 5 1 A P P E A R A N C E S (Cont'd): 2 3 HARDIN, KUNDLA, McKEON & POLETTO, P.A. 4 673 Morris Avenue 5 Springfield, New Jersey 07081 6 (973) 912-5222 7 BY: NICEA D'ANNUNZIO, ESQ. 8 Attorneys for Defendant, Henkels & McCoy 9 10 A L S O PRESENT: 11 Justin Placitella 12 Michael Noonan 13 Thomas Farmer, Videographer 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 23 1 of AT&T? 2 A. That was my understanding also. 3 Q. And the funding for Bell 4 Laboratories came 50 percent from Western 5 Electric and 50 percent from AT&T; is that 6 correct? 7 MR. MCGOWAN: Object to form. 8 A. That was my understanding. 9 Q. And when you went, first job you 10 had you went to work at Murray Hill, New 11 Jersey, correct? 12 A. That is correct. 13 Q. And at that time there was, 14 approximately, 24,000 employees at that job 15 site? 16 A. That is incorrect. 17 Q. How many were there? 18 A. Approximately, 4,000 at that job 19 site. 20 Q. What about Bell Labs generally? 21 A. I was told Bell Labs generally had 22 24,000 employees. 23 Q. Okay. What was the function, when 24 you first started to work there, what was the 25 function of Bell Laboratories as it related to 25 1 Q. Bell Laboratories provided the 2 scientific and research end for the Bell 3 Operating Companies; is that a fair statement? 4 A. That is a fair statement. 5 Q. As part of that function, Bell Labs 6 conducted health and safety research for 7 Operating Companies; is that right? 8 A. It did. 9 Q. I want to just focus prior to 1984, 10 in 1984 there was some kind of divestiture? 11 A. That is correct. 12 Q. Okay. What happened? What was 13 your understanding of the divestiture in 1984? 14 A. My understanding was that AT&T 15 split up into regional Bell Operating Companies 16 and AT&T, which became, was a mixture of Long 17 Lines, Bell Laboratories, and Western Electric. 18 Q. Let's just focus pre-1984, before 19 the divestiture in 1984, all of the Bell 20 Operating Companies relied upon Bell 21 Laboratories for industrial hygiene advice; is 22 that correct? 23 MR. MCGOWAN: I'm just going to 24 object to the form in terms of the start 25 date. Pre-'84 I don't know how far back 26 1 we're going. 2 MR. PLACITELLA: Uh-hum, right. 3 A. They relied on Bell Laboratories 4 and perhaps other resources. 5 Q. Okay. But Bell Laboratories, but 6 one of the companies they relied upon -- well, 7 let me ask the question this way, prior to 8 1984, did New Jersey Bell rely upon Bell 9 Laboratories for industrial hygiene advice? 10 MR. MCGOWAN: Form. 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Did Western Electric before 1984 13 rely upon Bell Laboratories for industrial 14 hygiene services and advice? 15 MR. MCGOWAN: Form. 16 A. My statement would be that Western 17 Electric has its own Industrial Hygiene Group. 18 They also used Bell Laboratories. When you say 19 relied, they didn't rely solely, it wasn't even 20 majority Bell Laboratories. 21 Q. Okay. But in terms of, say, New 22 Jersey Bell, they relied solely upon Bell 23 Laboratories, to your knowledge, from 24 industrial hygiene, correct? 25 MS. CRAWFORD: Objection to form. 54 1 MR. MCGOWAN: Form. 2 A. True. 3 Q. And you would agree with me that it 4 had been recognized for decades before you 5 started with Bell that workers were entitled to 6 a sane appreciation of risk they would 7 encounter in the workplace when working with 8 asbestos-containing products, true? 9 MR. MCGOWAN: Form. 10 A. Could you please rephrase that 11 question? 12 Q. Would you agree that workers were 13 entitled as a principle of industrial hygiene 14 to a sane appreciation of the risk? 15 A. I'm not sure of the word sane. 16 Sane, what do you mean by that? 17 Q. You've never seen that in an 18 industrial hygiene publication? 19 A. Sane, s-a-n-e? 20 Q. Correct. 21 A. I must have seen it, but I'm not 22 familiar with the use of the word sane. 23 Q. No problem. You wouldagree that 24 any warning should be clear as to the level of 25 risk when related to the worker? 55 1 A. I would agree. 2 Q. And that in addition anytime you 3 would need to warn somebody, training would 4 also be part of an industrial hygiene program 5 to protect against exposure to asbestos? 6 A. I consider warning to be a facet of 7 training. 8 Q. Okay. Now, do industrial hygiene 9 principles recognize that a worker has a right 10 to know of hazardous operations being carried 11 out in his or her vicinity? 12 A. I agree. 13 Q. And that would also go back decades 14 before you became an industrial hygienist? 15 A. It would. 16 Q. Do industrial hygiene principles 17 recognize the worker had a right to know 18 whether products he is being asked to use had 19 toxic ingredients? 20 A. I agree with that. 21 Q. And that would also go back decades 22 before you became an industrial hygienist? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Do industrial hygiene principles 25 recognize workers' right to know if the dust 56 1 generated by the cutting or fabrication 2 materials he's using is toxic? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Okay. Didindustrial hygiene 5 principles recognized that any exposure to 6 human carcinogen should be eliminated whenever 7 possible? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And that also predated your 10 becoming an industrial hygienist by decades, 11 true? 12 MR. MCGOWAN: Form. 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And for asbestos at least into the 15 1950's, true? 16 MR. MCGOWAN: Form. 17 A. Would you please rephrase that? 18 Q. Yeah. In other words it was a 19 recognized principle that for asbestos, that 20 was a carcinogen going back at least to the 21 1950's. 22 MR. MCGOWAN: Form. 23 A. I believe so. 24 MR. PLACITELLA: He's got like two 25 minutes on the tape, do you want to take a 58 1 warned of asbestos hazardous in the workplace? 2 MR. MCGOWAN: Form. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Did Western Electric have the money 5 and resources to conduct the proper testing to 6 determine if asbestos hazardous existed in the 7 workplace? 8 MR. MCGOWAN: Form. 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Did Western Electric have the money 11 and resources to ensure workers were properly 12 warned of hazards in the workplace? 13 MR. MCGOWAN: Form. 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Did Western Electric have the money 16 and the resources to ensure that workers were 17 properly warned of hazardous associated with 18 the products they sold to Bell Operating 19 Companies? 20 MR. MCGOWAN: Form. 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Including New Jersey Bell? 23 A. Including New Jersey Bell. 24 Q. Did Bell Laboratories have the 25 money and the resources to conduct proper 59 1 testing to determine if asbestos hazards 2 existed in the workplace? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Did Bell Laboratories have the 5 money andthe resources to ensure workers were 6 properly warned of hazards in the workplace? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Now, am I correct that when you 9 started at, as an industrial hygienist, Bell 10 Labs had already recognized asbestos as a 11 potential human carcinogen? 12 A. I'm not sure what you mean by Bell 13 Labs already recognized individuals at Bell 14 Labs? 15 Q. Peopleworking in the Industrial 16 Hygiene Department. 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And didindividuals working inthe 19 Industrial Hygiene Department at Bell 20 Laboratories recognized that asbestos exposure 21 can cause mesothelioma when you first started 22 working there? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. At thetime youstartedworking at 25 Bell Laboratories, did Bell Laboratories 60 1 recognize asbestos as a carcinogen to be 2 concerned about in the workplace of the 3 Operating Companies? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Was it your understanding that this 6 knowledge predated your joining Bell Labs as an 7 industrial hygienist? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Your boss, Mr.Schreibeis -- 10 A. Schreibeis. 11 Q. He had extensive knowledge about 12 the dangers of asbestos -- 13 MR. MCGOWAN: Form. 14 Q. -- did he not? 15 A. Do you mean extensive was he an 16 expert? 17 Q- Yes. 18 A. In asbestos, no. 19 Q. Okay. 20 A. But he was an expert in industrial 21 hygiene. 22 Q. He was before he became to Bell 23 Laboratories, he was actually the industrial 24 hygienist for the Industrial Hygiene 25 Foundation, did you know that? 61 1 A. I believe, I knew he was a member 2 of the Industrial Hygiene Foundation. 3 Q. Did you know he worked as an 4 industrial hygienist for the Industrial Hygiene 5 Foundation? 6 A. I did not know that. 7 Q. And whatever information he had as 8 an industrial hygienist for the Industrial 9 Hygiene Foundation he would have brought with 10 him to Bell Laboratories. Would you agree with 11 that? 12 MR. MCGOWAN: Form. 13 MR. HORNBY: Objection. 14 A. I don't believe he would have 15 forgotten information that he knew in the past. 16 Q. So he was aware of all the -- he 17 worked at the Industrial Hygiene Foundation 18 back in the 1950's, right? 19 A. I do not know. 20 Q. You were a member of the American 21 Industrial Hygiene Association, correct? 22 A. And still am. 23 Q. Still am. And so is Mr. 24 Schreibeis, correct? 25 A. Correct. 62 1 Q. Now, when you're a member of the 2 American Industrial Hygiene Association, what 3 were the benefits of membership? 4 A. The ability to attend professional 5 conferences at reduced rates and monthly 6 journal, I believe it was a monthly journal, 7 actually bimonthly journal, professional 8 meetings local and national, the ability to 9 meet people with, you know, networking. All of 10 that. 11 Q. From time to time, did the American 12 Industrial Hygiene Association's journal 13 contain articles on asbestos exposure and the 14 potential dangers of asbestos? 15 A. It did. 16 MR. PLACITELLA: Could you mark 17 this on P-1. 18 (Whereupon document is marked as 19 P-1 for identification.) 20 Q. Take a look at P-1, Mr. Lichtenwalner. 21 In front of you, you have something called 22 Membership Booklet American Industrial 23 Association 1958, 1959. Doyou see that? 24 A. I see it. 25 Q. And it's not the fullbooklet 63 1 'cause it is hundreds of pages. Could you flip 2 to the last page? You see the last page? 3 A. I do. 4 Q. The fourth name from the top on the 5 left side on page 69, what is that name? 6 A. Fourth name from the top? 7 Q. From the bottom, I'm sorry. 8 A. You're talking about Mr. Schreibeis, 9 Mr. William J.? 10 Q. Right. Was that the same person 11 that was your boss? 12 A. I believe that was my boss. 13 Q. And it says there that he worked 14 for whom? 15 A. Industrial Hygiene Foundation. 16 Q. Now, that's all I have on that. 17 MR. PLACITELLA: Mark this one 18 next. 19 (Whereupon document is marked as 20 P-2 for identification.) 21 Q. I have in front of you the 1966, 22 1967 Membership book for the American 23 Association Industrial Hygiene Association, 24 correct? 25 A. Correct. 64 1 Q. Can you flip to the last page? You 2 see the third name from the top on the right- 3 hand side of page 88? 4 A. Mr. William J. Schreibeis, I do. 5 Q. And is that the same William J. 6 Schreibeis who worked for the Industrial 7 Hygiene Foundation. 8 MR. MCGOWAN: Form. 9 Q. -- by virtue of the prior membership 10 list? 11 A. I believe it is. 12 Q. And it says, who does he work for 13 there? 14 A. Bell Telephone Labs. 15 Q. Now, would you agree with me that 16 without proper abatement an area contaminated 17 with asbestos remains contaminated with 18 asbestos? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Why not? 21 A. I 'm sorry, yes, it remains 22 contaminated with asbestos. It may or may not 23 be airborne that it could expose people. 24 Q. What do you mean by that? 25 A. What I am talking about, an area 70 1 monitor, do a monitoring to see if asbestos 2 fibers can be released, would agree with that? 3 A. I would agree with that. 4 Q. Okay. Now, at some point in time, 5 did Bell Laboratories create a videotape 6 relating to asbestos hazards to be used in 7 training? 8 A. Possibly. 9 Q. Do you remember seeing such a 10 videotape? 11 A. At the moment I don't remember. 12 Q. To your knowledge, when is the 13 first time that Bell Laboratories conducted any 14 testing for the presence of asbestos-containing 15 dust in the work environment for any Bell 16 Operating Company? 17 A. To my knowledge, it would have been 18 after June or July of 1975 but there may have 19 been prior ones done by Mr. Schreibeis. 20 Q. Why June or July 1975 stand out? 21 A. That's the time when I was hired to 22 work in the Bell Systems Group. 23 Q. All right. So one of the reasons 24 you were hired was to actually help do the air 25 monitoring? 71 1 A. That is correct. 2 Q. Okay. And prior to that time, was 3 there any program in place in the Bell 4 Operating Companies for air monitoring for 5 asbestos-containing dust? 6 MR. MCGOWAN: Form. 7 A. Not to my knowledge. 8 Q. Given the fact that youarticulated 9 that monitoring was something that should be 10 done going back to the 1940's, do you know why 11 it was never done before 1975 -- 12 MR. MCGOWAN: Form. 13 Q. -- by Bell? 14 A. Okay. Bell Laboratories -- 15 Q. Correct? 16 A. -- Western Electric, New Jersey 17 Bell, I'm sorry, which company are you 18 referring to? 19 Q. Any of them. 20 A. I believe that WesternElectric 21 would have conducted air monitoring for 22 asbestos. I am not aware of it, but I believe 23 they would have done so. 24 Q. And they would have done that in 25 the context of their manufacturing facilities?