Document NEVmgE3y963Gqo151XJ5O0wYw
FILE NAME: Pfizer (PFIZ) DATE: 1969 Nov 4 DOC#: PFIZ030 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: CPLIA Convention Presentation
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CPLIA 52nd ANNUAL CONVENTION,INTERNATIONAL HOTEL
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TUESDAY, NOVZI3ER A, 1969
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VOLUMS I
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r e s o r te d by: W illiam M. Rhoades
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Willia m m . R h q a o e s BrnciAL COURT REPORTER
2ur v h a r d istu rb e d us was of th e 45 of did n o t work w ith a sb e sto s, nine sin g ly liv e d in th e household of an asb esto s w orker, wives who were w ashing th e ir husband's -clothes and dust eoains o ff th e ir
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mmma m # >
which these rsn.car.e here w ith th e ir asb asrts-lad er. sh o e s. And i n 'a d d i t i o n , of th e 36 who n e ith e r worked w ith a sb e sto s n o r .liv e d w ith aorebedy who worked w ith a s b e s to s , 11 siirrly , s i r n l y liv e d w ith in a h a l f r i l e of a s l a n t where a sb e sto s was ra d e , was u se d , cr.e cf th e b i? te s t s la n ts in London.
:ie::t l i c i t p le a se . In th is country ths sar.s th in s has been found. Jan Liken a t the Pennsylvania S ta te D ete rm en t of H ealth did the sar.e th in s , jo in ? to th e houses o f 42 peoole who d ied of a e a s e lth e re o rir.e in Pennsylvania, and su re enouxh , once mere 20 had worked w ith a sb esto s.
B u t, o f th e 22 who d id n o t work w ith asb esto s, 3 lived in the household of an asbestes w o rk e r. Cne was a voran whose w o sons were in s u la tio n
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w o rk e rs. Cne vas a c h ild whose f a th e r v as an
WiLUAM M. RHQAOCB
*MOMC tll-4111
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in s u la tio n w orker. And 8 sim ply liv e d in th e n e ig h b o r
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hood of one o r an o th er of th e asb esto s p la n ts in
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Pennsylvania.
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" `.i s has r a is e d a v ery se rio u s c u e s tio n .
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The q u e s tio n of co n tam in atio n of th e environm ent
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around b u ild in ? s it e s , around fa c to rie s , in households,
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and so f o rth , and th e p o s s ib ility th a t the d ise a se ,
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serious disease., f a ta l d isease, cancerous disease w ill
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:? found to be asso cia ted w ith such ccn tsm izaticn .
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And the t u b l i e h e a lth a u t h o r it ie s in t h i s co u n try are
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th e re fo re very truth concerned w ith the p o te n tia l of
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th is problem.
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However, the public h e a lth a u th o ritie s are
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n o t the only ones concerned. S c ie n tis ts are very
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touch co ncerned. Labor is v e ry such concerned.
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Indus t r y i s v e ry touch concerned. We a l l a r e .
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Ve a re f o r s e v e ra l r e a s o n s . F i r s t , and
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forem ost, th e h e a lth of the people workins: w ith these
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m a te ria ls. T h at's the im portant th in s . But in
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a d d itio n , th e in fo rm a tio n we have so f a r s u s s e s ts
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very strongly th a t if th is m aterial is properly used,
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used in ways th a t would not involve contam ination cf
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o th e r a re a s , th a t would not involve excessive exposure
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of working men, i t could be used p e r f e c tly s a fe ly .
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T herefore, our concern has been to devise
w illia m M. R h o a d e s
O F F IC IA L C O U R T R E P O R T E R
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ways of working w ith t h i s m a te r ia l, v hieh is e s s e n t i a l
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f o r modern in d u stry in o rd e r to minimize or e lir.ir.a rs
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the occupational heal* hazards associated with its
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u s e , and sim u lrar.tcu ely or.c# we do th a t to a lso
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elir.ir.ate the p o s s ib ility th a t peoole in other tra d e s,
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members o f Hr. Murphy's u n io n , Hr. Houch's u n io n ,
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people liv in g around construction s ite s , households,
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contacts of building trades workers w ill also be
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sim ultaneously protected.
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*?ith th is combined .concern and eor.bir.ee
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a c t i v i t y , we have become to stake so re p ro g re s s , A
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y e a r and a h a l f ago th e em ployers, th e m an u factu rers,
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in c lu d in g Jo h n s-H an sv ilie, The Sorasue M ineral F iber
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M anufacturers A ssociation, the "International A ssociation
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of F ro st In su la to r and A sbestos V orkers, Hr. H utchinsens
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u n io n , and s c ie n ti s ts t u t to g a rn e r an in s u la tio n
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in d u stry hygiene research ore era, to develote the
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safe methods, the safe working conditions fo r the
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p r o te c tio n of th e men working in th is im p o rtan t tr a d e .
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e d id n 't w a it fo r Government re g u la tio n s .
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In stead , every asbestos worker in the country c o n tri
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bu ted $10 fo r us to h ir e to th e i n d u s t r i a l hygiene
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engineers and o th e rs, - - Johns-M ansville contributed
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an e q u a l su n . The Sprague M in eral F ib e r M anufacturers
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A s s o c ia tio n c o n trib u te d fu n d s, and we g o t o ff th e
WILLIAM M. RHOADES o r r t c t A k ceueT spouts*
SWMTOE
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a*round alm ost im m ediately, w ith in months. And th e
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outlook in so far as the in su latio n trade in general
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is concerned is now v e ry trc m is in e .
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h'av i have th e n ex t s l i t s o le a s e .
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I 'd lik e to show you a few of th e ch in es
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th a t have been haopening in these la s t twelve months.
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T h is , f o r exam ple, when we had o u r en g in eers so out
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throughout th e in d u stry w ith the cooD eration of th e
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u n io n , w ith th e c o c re ra tio r. of th e in c u str* ", we were
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a b le to d e fin e some of th e most im p o rtan t h acard s r i g h t
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Ms ** *m #
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Here, fo r example, is an in s u la tio n w orker
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mixing asbestos cement.
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Could you sharpen th a t please*
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And as you can s e e , h e 's in a d u st e lo u c .
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I n c id e n ta lly , th e ones th a t are on h is r ig h t d o esn 't.
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r e a liz e th a t asbestos fib e rs d o n 't understand and
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d o n 't resp ect job c la s s ific a tio n s 3ut here, asbestos
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cement was r a o id iv th e defined as a troblem .
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Next s li d e o le a s e . We found, f o r exam sle,
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th a t in the f ie ld shop, the c u ttin g of pipe and o u ttin s ;
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co u n ts were v e ry h ig h in such a r e a s . We c o u ld n 't
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u n d e rsta n d t h i s . We th e n c o n ta c te d ev ery s in g le
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ta b le saw m an u factu rer in th is co u n try t h a t 's ap p lied
Willia m m . R h o a d e s
s s M B s m is r -T rs : -- . mqmc a o a ^ o s o
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ro th e a sb e sto s in d u s try . And ve found th e re w a s n 't
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er.t s in e le ta b le saw made in th is co u n try t h a t had a
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b u ilt- in dust co llec tin * exhaust. ' I t is unbelievable.
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Nobodv had r a id an*' a tta n c io n to t h i s . r.snsr.ber t h i s
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Ion; period - - i t fooled us a l l.
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Next s li d e p le a s e . So w e've gone to work
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looking a t dozen? of problem s. Hers, f o r example,
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is th e d u st t h a t 's created by taking asbestos cener.c out
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of the bat.
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T ext s l i d e o le a s e , What w e've done. V e've
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f i e l d t e s t e d t h i s l a s t week in A lbany. We sir.p ly
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worked o u t a method by p u ttin g the cement in ste a d of a
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paper bag into a plyafilm bag.
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Next s lid e p le a se , instead of unpin* the
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eener.t, ve put the water into the bag.
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Next s l i d e p le a s e . This i s th e nixed ar.d
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wet cement.
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Next s l i d e tL e a se . Ar.d th e n i t s nixed Like
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th is.
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Answer - - no n o te d u s t, no more hazard.
Nov a l l t h i s took was somebody to look a t
the problen. I t w asn't a very d if fic u lt one.
We a ls o looked a t th e saw problem was ve
asked a l l th e saw m anufacturers which one of you, s r
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" ore th a n one, would lik e to b u ild a sa fe saw fo r the
w iluam m . R h o a d es . orneiAu court rcrortcr
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a s b e sto s w orkers. We went to the d u s t c o lle c tin g
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m a n u fa c tu re rs. Which of ,rou would lik e to work w ith
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the saw m anufacturers to put dust c o lle c tin g procedures
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in to th e sawn.
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We found th a t th e re were such o e o p le .
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Next s lid e p le a s e . T h is, in c i d e n t a l l y , was
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so re th in ? t h a t Johns-mans v i l i e d id . A ll th e y d id was
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put a silic o n e spray onto th e ir pipe and th e ir block
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and as y ou can see h e re , r.o more o u s t coming - r or. .ns
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s u rfa c e . They t u t a cus t su te re ssa n e s ilic o n e s t a y en,
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Oa .-.M- ( < ( i s so in ? to be in tro d u c e d in th e n e x t s e v e r a l
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m onths.
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Next s li d e p le a s e . The ta b le saw, to s e t
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bade. This is how as you a re c u ttin g p ip e , you c re a te
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th e s e d u s t p a r t i c l e s . These are what th e men are
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b r e a th in g , and y o u 'v e now seen what th e y look lik e
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under the microseooe.
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Three weeks ag o , we went to H ouston, Texas,
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and we f i e l d - t e s t e d t h e r e , ahd a ls o a week l a t e r in
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Chicago a t th e f a c t o r ie s of two saw m a n u fa c tu re rs,
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ta b le saws a t which d u st c o n tro ls were p la c e d . Ahd.
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th e y a r e cheap, only $16-00 p e r saw e x t r a .
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Next s li d e p le a s e . -And t h i s i s what i t
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looks l i k e . We a re ab le now our d u s t counts show, to
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com pletely suppress the creatio n of dust in the cu ttin g
Willia m m . R h o a d e s
o fficial co u rt repo rter
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of asbestos block and asb esto s s ite *
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And a s tir ., r.o : r s i : s t i s r . t i f i c r ts e a r c h vas
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needed . Sirrolv somebody to look a t th e tr a b le r .,
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a n o in tsrs to t i i i c about i t , to ' cri w ith th e manu
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factu rers and so forth*
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Next s li d e le a s e As ve were w orking on
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.these problems chat l ju s t reviewed w ith you b r ie f ly ,
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ve were made v e ry much aware of an o th er h a z a rd . And
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re v I corns to t h i s conv en tio n . Ve v e rs mads aware
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od i t n o r only by our own f i e l d i r v s s c i t a t i o n b u t by
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th e f a c t th a t s e v e r a l la re s c i t i e s , Wev York, San
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Francisco, P h ilad elp h ia, case to us and ash 'should
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ve iersed l a t e l y band th e s tra y in g of a l l in s u la tio n
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in cur c itie s .'
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Ve d e sc rib e d our ex p erien ces w ith th e r e s t
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of the in su la tio n trade th a t I'v e ju s t tone over v irh
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you, and our advice to them was 've h a v e n 't begun
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to lock a t th is problem y e t . ' If our experiences w ith
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o th er p a rts of the in su la tio n industry are an index
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ve th in k th e re is a f a i r l y good chance, no guarantee,
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b u t a f a i r l y r o o d 'chance, t h a t t h i s tre b le m .c a n also
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be co n tro lled .
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Ve have seme e r e d i t . v i t h th e s e c i t i e s , and
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some o th e rs and ve have nov been given a grace p erio d
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to determine whether our advice w ill hold w ater.
w iujam m. R ho ades orneiAL sauar ncpoarcn '` `S A W L 'P 'a S B W ? w" " MKVAOA
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And w h eth er, in d eed , t h is problem is so lu a b ie one.
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iTov, te c h n ic a lly , I'm su re i t 's s o lu a b ie . T h a t's n o t
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a problem . But a l l so lu tio n s trust be a c c e n tlish e d
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by human b e in g s , and t h i s is where we may. have sore
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d ifficu lty .
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H ere, f o r example, is some of th e
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r e s u l t s of our e a r ly s tu d i e s . Those who have been
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to New York l a t e l y w i l l reco g n ize th is as 43rd S tr e e t
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and -.'adis on Avenue, th e e q u ita b le 3 u ild ir.g t h a t w ent
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up th e r e .
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Next s l i d e o le a s e . The sp ray in g was
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b ein g done in th e b u ild in g , and as we walked along
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th e s t r e e t , t h i s is w hat New York was g e ttin g as a
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bonus.
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Next s lid e p le ase . I f you wanted to
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buy shoes a t th a t t i n e , 1 would have advised you a g a in s t
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going in to Johnson and 'durphv. However, =y advice
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to go in to French and S h rin e r down the s t r e e t in th e
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next block, - -
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Next s lid e p le a se - - would have been
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no b e t t e r . I t was a l l over th e p la c e .
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Next s l i d e p le a s e . You c o u ld n 't even
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p r o te c t y o u rs e lf by going through the subway under
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ground th e r e . This was th e subway grading.
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Next s lid e p le ase .
w iluam m. R h o ad es arriciAt esuer etpoirrcs
err --la * vest*, n c v a s a U2<4I1I
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Three months eao, as we co ntinued to
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stu d y th is problem , we looked a t th e Tishnan D uiidir.a
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a t 55th S tre e t and F ifth Avenue.
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`.Text s lid e t l e a s e . Cur s t a f f w anted
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to look a t th is because the shop on the co m er is
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? J . C la rk 's famous saloon, and th ey were v ery
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d is tu rb e d ab o u t th e saloon being contam inated. And
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9 t h i s is th e s tr a y i r .2 coin* on. jt
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Next s lid e t l e a s e . This i s Duncan H o lid a y ,
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our Chief Hysier.e S n aiseer, a .v e ry famous one, and you .
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can see we h tv e been u sin g h is face as a sam pler.
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Next s lid e p le a s e . T hat l i t t l e d o t. And
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t h i s is what v ts on Duncan H o lid a y 's f a c t .
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Next slid e p le ase . This is the roof of
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th e Kish School of A rts and S cien ces, se v e ra l blocks
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a v e r. We p u t a h ig h volume s e a s ie r th e r e .
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Next s lid e p le a se . This is what the
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h ig h ' school c h ild re n were b re tth in g in th a t day.
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Next slid e p lease. At the General
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Motors S u ild in g , where we went n e x t, on 58th S tr e e t - -
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59th S tre e t and F ifth Avenue, th e housekeeping ve
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found was m is e ra b le .
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Next s lid e p le a s e . This was in ?asacer.&,
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C a lifo rn ia , This is th e housekeeping th e re . This
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was l e f t a f t e r th e job was done, and t h i s we have seen
Willia m m . R h d a d c s arneuu court reporter
T O & ' t r - i n y" A*-
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th ro u g h o ut th e country in c id e n t a lly . And we iir.d i t
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e n te rin g in to the a i r svsterns of r e s t b u ild ir.e s new.
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>:ar.y of th e s e a i r sta e a s are b eing used as r e t u r n a i r
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p u r r s . T his is a d i s a s t e r . And t h i s is sim ply because
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of lack of looking a t th is minor problem.
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Next s lid e p le a se . This is W all and
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W ater S t r e e t s in New York. You can see why th e
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problem e x i s t s . T h at's when he h i t s i t .
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Next s lid e t l e a s e . S cretir.es he d o e s n 't
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a 6 Uie
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Next s l i d e p le a s e . As in t h i s n e x t
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one. And t h i s was g a in ; a l l over W all S t r e e t .
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Next s lid e p le a s e . This was the
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c o n tra c to r s c a r , and he made h is own d i s t r i b u t i o n as
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he went through the c ity s tr e e ts .
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Next s l i d e p le a s e . I f you sta n d cn
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your h ea d , you can see t h a t t h is i s th e new World Trade
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C en ter th e y a r e b u ild in g , going up in downtown New
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York.
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W e're concerned about th is building
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because i t ' s going to be 110 s t o r i e s , 5,000 tons of
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m a te r ia l w i l l be used i n th e i n s u l a t i o n , th e f i r e pro
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Cf .whieh ro u g h ly alm o st 1,000 to n s w i l l be a s b e s to s ,
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and our c a lc u la tio n and observations so f a r suggest
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t h a t anywhere from 5 t o 20% w i l l become d e b r is .
WILLIAM M. RHOADES
O rriC IA L COURT R EPO R T ER
SAWIRiP*'F5$INJS"ESBTIM- U-*I
NCVAOA
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This ssaas t h a t perhaps 100 tons of a sb e sto s c o u ld ,
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i f w e're not c a re fu l, be d istrib u te d through th e a ir c f
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::ev; York C ity .
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Cne of th e T ec artrsn c of A ir .le s c u rc a s ,
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A ir P o llu tio n people in New York C ity , jo k in g ly s a id
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to me, he says we are going t0 do our sam pling in
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Boston.
II
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W ell, a t t h i s p o in t, we met w ith
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sene of tha p e o tie , c o n tra c to rs , so re of whoa a re
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h e rs in th e audience to d ay , to see how t h i s problem
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could b egin to be ta c k le d . And I would lik e t o show
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you a few of th e i n i t i a l step s th a t have begun to be
taken.
Next s lid e p lease. "or example, very
considerable care is being given to proper enclosure.
Weffe n o t s a t i s f i e d by any s e a n s, by what has been
.done, but i t ' s an advance over what had been dene to
th is point.
Next s l i d e p le a s e . The enelostare was
n o t only - - here is where i t h a s n 't been fastened
down. Look a t th e d e b ris in th e c e n te r th e r e . That
is the wind went through, would be d is trib u te d through
New. York C ity .
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N ext s lid e p le a s e . Look a t 't h i s d eb ris,
There is a tremendous amount of i t , and nobody has
WlUUAM M. RHOADES
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paid any atten tio n to
'.ie've a l l cor. s lo d s ir.c
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r.cr cn iv bear. or. cha curs i d s , bur :e *ve ever. ic o k sd
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a t i t on th e i n s i d e . The e le v a to r shades in th e c e n te r
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of the b u ild in g tro v id ed a chimney e f f e c t, which rook
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a l l of the strayed fib e r and began to d is trib u te i t
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upwards ir o n wer.ee i t th e n went in to th e g e n e ra l a i r .
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So t h a t a ls o was en c lo se d .
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Text s lid e p le a s e . These were on the
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stairw ays of the building - - be ins d is trib u te d a l l
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through the building under construction.
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Next s lid e p le a s e . This was a t th e
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mister. * I-`ow you have seen t h i s l i t e r a l l y hundreds
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of t i n e s , I 'n s u r e . 3ur th e q u e s tio n is how o f te n
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have you r e a lly .seen i t .
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"e x t slid e p le a se . This fin a l tab le
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is th e r e s u l t s of some averages of d u st counts th a t
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our lab o rato ry has been doing in these p ast straths.
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L et ne t e l l you what the nurbers mean. At the
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present tin e , in order to prevent asbestoses, the
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Public H ealth Service is considering settin g a lev el, . _
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1 don`t know what i t w i l l be - - i t w i l l e i t h e r be
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two f i b e r s p e r c c , or* s ix f ib e r s p e r c c , something
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lik e th a t - - th is is fibers th a t are very, very sn a il.
Willia m m . R h o a d e s crneiAL souer ncpbuteii
skm ipce
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You e a n 't see th e n w ith th e o r . You can h a rt!;* see
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then w ith a micros cote sr.estt under very k ip h .tc v s r.
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And we w i l l t o l e r a t e two f ib e r s t e r cc in c r i e r to
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diminish the ris k of asbestoses to our lu re s.
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This w ill not decrease the r is k of
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c a n c e r. We d o n 't know how low we have to s e t to do
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th a t* We j u s t a re ig n o ran t y e t . We know i t ' s ru sh
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lower than the le v e l th a t w ill prevent asb esto ses.
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W ell, we are h arp y to do w hatever we
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can a t th is p o in t. L et's a t .least prevent deaths of
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s c a rre d lu n g s. .And to do t h a t , we are ta lk in g about
13
nobody ever working in an atrosphere w ith ra re than
14
two to s in fib e rs p e r cc . That begins to give you
15
sore concept of what w e're ta lk in g about. A ctually
16
i t should be about one f i b e r p e r 100 e c , p erh ap s, in
17
o rd e r to p re v e n t c a n c e r. *We d o n 't r e a l l y know. But
18
in order to prevent scarred lur.es, a t le a s t l e t 's set
19
th a t under two to s in fib e r s p er ee.
20
On th e to p l i n e s , we p u t p e rso n a l
21
a a s p le rs on th e working nan, men who w ere doing sp ra y in g ,
y o u r em ployees. And in c id e n t a lly , the s it u a ti o n th a t
I 'v e seen aaeng your employees, nen working w ithout
masks, working trader conditions which are im possible N
to b e lie v e . 1 doubt w hether one of your employees
t h a t I 'v e se e n , a t any r a t e , w i l l be a liv e 5 y ea rs
_____
Willia m M. R h o a d e s arriciAL count reports*
> SOUTH SIXTH S T B tB T -- LAS V C S A I. NKVA&A
SAMPLE 158E?
1
2
f r o n now, X have n e v e r, in a l l o f th e i n d u s t r i a l
3
s i t u a t i o n t h a t I 've se e n , seen th e c o n d itio n s t h a t
4
th e se men a r e w orking u n d er. P u tt in s p e rso n a l sam plers
5
on th e se men - - th o se are l i t t l e In stru m en ts t h a t
6
ve place on th e ir chest rig h t n ear th e ir necks, ju s t
7
ab o u t what th e y would be b re a th in g in - - we found
8
on the average in four d if fe re n t jo b s, anywhere fro n
9
35 to 100 f i b e r s p er e e , - - 25 t i n e s th e p e m is s a b le
10
le v e ls.
n
In f a c t, the s itu a tio n the sueh th a t
12
even 75 f e e t away, th e le v e ls were s t i l l h ig h e r th a n
13
we w i l l allo w th e working men to work in j u s t to
u
p re v e n t s c a rre d lu n g s. And even a h a l f hour l a t e r
15
th e r e was as much s t i l l in th e air*. You c o u ld n 't see
16
i t , but you eould see i t under th e microscope, as ve
17
would allow a man to work in .
18
And, in c id e n ta lly , to get back to th e
19
hopper. At the hopper, not even w ith the spraying,
20
th e le v e ls w ere around 11 f ib e r s p e r ee .
21
T h e re fo re , we a re very, concerned w ith
22
your in d u stry . A concern,'as 1 re p e a t, prim arily
23
b ecau se of th e man, th e human b e in g s , b ein g exposed
24
t o - th e s e d e a th d e a lin g f i b e r s . And co n cern ed , to o ,
25
in th e p r o te c tio n of everyone e l s e , in clu d in g 3^ m illio n
26
b u ild in g tra d e s w orkers, and concerned th a t the
w illiam m . Rh o a d es arriCIAL COURT REPORTER
l t t s SOUTH SIXTH STREET -- IA S V C SA S. HKVAD*
SAMPLE 4*68*s&s**ss
1
15
2
so lu tio n s co th e se problem s, which ere p r e s e a t, th e y
3
e re on th e s h e l f , are n o t te s tin g e t o l i e d . would
4
th e re fo re u rge you, w ith e l l good speed, to r a p id ly
3
apoly y o u rself to the engineering and research n ecessary
6
to ra p id ly e le a n up th is tra d e . Thank you.
7
8
Thank you very su ch , Dr. S e le k o ff, f o r
9
your e n lig h te n in g end frig h te n in g p re s e n ta tio n , I
10
hope i t w i l l have th e d e s ire d e f f e c t on our p e o p le , and
n
c e rta in ly hope you and your oth er s c ie n tis ts w ill
12
eon# up w ith adequate answers to p r o te c t our p eo p le,
13
because, of course, they are our su st precious possession:
U
Now, we have never had a convention
15
in th e l a s t te n y ears t h a t we d id n 't g et a r e p o r t
16
ir o n th e A p p ren tice Committee. And p le a s e , a t t h i s
17
t i n e , would lik e to have Joe P.oss give you a r e p o r t
18
on the P la s te rs A pprentice Committee.
19
20
We have got a N a tio n a l P la s te r in g
21
Jo in t A pprentice Compete# th a t is doing something.
Ve a re doing a l l we can w ith th e money we have, we
a re p u ttin g v is u a l aid s i n th e school. We're s o li c it in g i
money from government so u rc e s. We'r e working w ith
!
th e MDIA Program, and w e 're a ls o working w ith the
Job Corps. And we know we are in a p o s itio n t h a t 's bad.
Willia m m. R h o a d e s orriciAu court rcpqktcr
i * aauTM sixth it err - l* s vcsas, nkvao*
__________SAMPLE 1586*Ht
