Document ExmoD6nKd49dENEq9dGBxQLXx

VIDEO DEPOSITION RICHARD C. JOHNSON DAVIESS CIRCUIT COURT DIVISION TWO (II) DORIS WHITE, Plaintiff, - vs - No. 14-CI-1029 TRIANGLE ENTERPRISES, INC., et al., Defendants. Video deposition of RICHARD C. JOHNSON, taken pursuant to CR 26 and CR 30.02(6) at the Inn on the Lake, 770 South Main Street, Canandaigua, New York, on August 14, 2015, commencing at 10:08 a.m., before LORI K. BECK, CSR, RDR, CRR, Notary Public. Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 2 Richard Johnson 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 SATTERLEY & KELLEY, PLLC, By JOSEPH D. SATTERLEY, ESQ., 8700 Westport Road, Suite 202, Louisville, Kentucky 40242, (502) 589-5600, jsatterley@satterleylaw.com, Appearing for the Plaintiff. GWIN, STEINMETZ & BAIRD, PLLC, By ALEX J. KUEBBING, ESQ., 401 West Main Street, Suite 1000, Louisville, Kentucky 40202, (502) 618-5727, akuebbing@gsblegal.com, Appearing for the Defendant, Triangle Enterprises, Inc., via telephone. SEDGWICK, LLP, By DAVID S. BLOW, ESQ., 1085 Raymond Boulevard, One Newark Center, 16th Floor, Newark, New Jersey 07102-5225, (973) 242-0002, david.blow@sedgwicklaw.com, Appearing for the Defendant, Foster Wheeler. NAPIER, GAULT, SCHUPBACH & MOORE, PLC, By PATRICK W. GAULT, ESQ., 730 West Main Street, Suite 400, Louisville, Kentucky 40202, (502) 855-3802, pgault@napiergaultlaw.com, Appearing for the Defendants, Transco, Inc. and Advance Thermal Corporation, via telephone. 22 23 24 25 Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 3 Richard Johnson 1 HAWKINS, PARNELL, THACKSTON & YOUNG, LLP, 2 By H. BARRETT MARSHALL, JR., ESQ., 4514 Cole Avenue, Suite 500, 3 Dallas, Texas 75205-5412, (214) 780-5115, 4 bmarshall@hptylaw.com, Appearing for the Defendants, 5 Alcoa, Inc. and Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co., 6 via telephone. 7 LYNCH, COX, GILMAN & GOODMAN, PSC, By BERLIN TSAI, ESQ., 8 500 W. Jefferson Street, Suite 2100, Louisville, Kentucky 40202, 9 (502) 589-4215, btsai@lynchcox.com, 10 Appearing for the Defendant, Hoosier Energy Rural 11 Electric Cooperative, Inc., via telephone. 12 KERRICK BACHERT STIVERS, PLLC, 13 By ENA M. VITESKIC, ESQ., eviteskic@kerricklaw.com and 14 LAURA M. HAGAN, ESQ., lhagan@kerricklaw.com, 15 1025 State Street, Bowling Green, Kentucky 42101, 16 (270) 782-8160, Appearing for the Defendant, 17 Big Rivers Electric Corp., via telephone. 18 WEBER & ROSE, PSC, 19 By JAMES M. GARY, ESQ., 471 W. Main Street, Suite 400, 20 Louisville, Kentucky 40202, (502) 589-2200, 21 jgary@weberandrose.com, Appearing for the Defendant, 22 Domtar Paper Company, via telephone. 23 24 25 Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 4 Richard Johnson 1 KIGHTLINGER & GRAY, LLP, 2 By WHITNEY E. WOOD, ESQ., Bonterra Building, Suite 200, 3 3620 Blackiston Boulevard, New Albany, Indiana 47150, 4 (812) 949-2300, wwood@k-glaw.com, 5 Appearing for the Defendants, AES Corporation and IPALCO, 6 via telephone. 7 DINSMORE & SHOHL, LLP, By NICHOLAS M. HAERING, ESQ., 8 101 South Fifth Street, Suite 2500, Louisville, Kentucky 40202, 9 (502) 540-2300, nicholas.haering@dinsmore.com, 10 Appearing for the Defendant, Riley Stoker Corporation a/k/a 11 Riley Power, Inc., via telephone. 12 PRESENT: 13 MATTHEW W. MESSING, CLVS, Videographer 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 5 Richard Johnson 1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This will begin the video 2 recorded testimony of Richard Johnson in the matter 3 of Doris White versus Triangle Enterprises, 4 Incorporated, et al. 5 This testimony is being held at the Inn on 6 the Lake in Canandaigua, New York, on Friday, 7 August 14th, 2015. The time on the video monitor 8 is 10:08. 9 The court reporter from the Varallo Group is 10 Lori Beck. My name is Matt Messing. I'm the video 11 technician. I'm also on behalf of the Varallo 12 Group. 13 Will counsel please introduce themselves for 14 the record, and the reporter will then swear in the 15 witness. 16 MR. SATTERLEY: Sure. This is Joe Satterley 17 on behalf of Doris White, and I would request that 18 all the folks participating by phone -19 they've already entered their appearance, so we 20 don't have to redo that again. 21 MR. BLOW: All right. I'm David Blow 22 representing Foster Wheeler with the law firm of 23 Sedgwick, LLP. 24 25 Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 6 Richard Johnson 1 R I C H A R D C. J O H N S O N, 109 Ferris 2 Hills , Canandaigua, New York 14424, after being 3 duly called and sworn, testified as follows: 4 5 EXAMINATION BY MR. SATTERLEY: 6 7 Q. Good morning, sir. 8 A. Good morning. 9 Q. My name is Joe Satterley. You and I 10 just met just a few minutes ago. I represent Doris 11 White in a case pending in -- in Owensboro, 12 Kentucky. 13 Have you ever been to Kentucky? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Okay. Have you done that in capacity 16 with Foster Wheeler? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. In capacity with a horse. 20 Q. Okay. Well, we will -- we're not here 21 to talk about horses today, so -- 22 A. Okay. 23 Q. It's my understanding that you have 24 been designated to speak on behalf of Foster 25 Wheeler with regard to certain issues in this case, Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 7 Richard Johnson 1 correct? 2 A. Yes, sir. 3 The following was marked for Identification: 4 EXH. 1 deposition notice. 5 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 6 Q. And I've marked as Exhibit 1 the notice 7 to take the deposition of you individually and as 8 the individual designated by Foster Wheeler. 9 Have you had a chance to review the 10 deposition notice? 11 A. Yes, I have. 12 Q. Okay. And -- and you have -- and it's 13 your understanding that Foster Wheeler has 14 designated you to speak on the topics outlined on 15 page 3 of this notice, correct? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. And the -- the -- the topic -- topics 18 are Foster Wheeler's historical knowledge of the 19 hazards of asbestos, including household exposure, 20 correct? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. And we also requested that you bring 23 any documents that you reviewed or relied upon to 24 prepare for this deposition. 25 Do you see that? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 8 Richard Johnson 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. Have you brought any documents? 3 A. I have no documents, no. 4 Q. Okay. And then if you flip back over 5 to page 1 of the notice, in the first paragraph, 6 it -- it says that we're deposing you as the 7 corporate representative and also individually and 8 as the individual designated by Foster Wheeler. 9 Do you see that? No, all the way back over 10 to page 1, I'm sorry. 11 A. Page 1? 12 Q. Yes. Sorry about that. The first 13 paragraph. Individually -- 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. -- and as the corporate representative. 16 A. I see that. 17 Q. Okay. 18 MR. BLOW: Just note my objection. We 19 didn't get a chance to -- to submit any formal 20 written objections to the notice, but just note my 21 objection to the "individually" part. 22 We' re furnishing Dick Johnson as the 23 corporate representative of Foster Wheeler, 24 designating him on issues that -- that we 25 understand under the rules in Kentucky will bind Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 9 Richard Johnson 1 the corporation. 2 We don't construe a -- a deposition notice 3 of him individually as any answers elicited or 4 information elicited based upon his personal 5 knowledge or questions asked of him individually. 6 We will object to any of that binding the company. 7 But other than that, you can feel free to 8 ask him questions as you may. 9 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 10 Q. Sir, you have been -- you were a 11 40-year employee of Foster Wheeler, correct? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. You started in 1955 when you came back 14 to Foster Wheeler -15 A. Yes. 16 Q. -- and then you -- and then you retired 17 in about 1995. 18 A. That's correct. 19 Q. Okay. And just so that the jury 20 understands the full scope of your -- you worked -21 did you work very briefly for Foster Wheeler back 22 before you -- you took over your family's -- family 23 business? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Okay. And -- and how long -- your Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 10 Richard Johnson 1 first stint with Foster Wheeler, how long did 2 that -- 3 A. About five or six months. 4 Q. Okay. And were -- were you working in 5 the Danville (sic) facility at that time frame? 6 A. Dansville, yes. 7 Q. Dansville -8 A. Yes. 9 Q. -- New York. 10 A. Yes, sir. 11 Q. Okay. And then you -- you took over -- 12 you went to mortuary school, right? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And then you took over the family's 15 funeral business, correct? 16 A. That's correct. 17 Q. And you've had that business for -- or 18 you had that business for many, many years. 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. Okay. So I want to just understand a 21 little bit about what you've done to prepare for 22 today's deposition. 23 You don't know Doris White, do you? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Okay. And you don't know any of the Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:11 Richard Johnson 1 circumstances surrounding her exposure to asbestos. 2 A. No, I don't. 3 Q. Okay. And you don't know Ron Eades, 4 her former husband, do you? 5 A. No. 6 Q. I take it you have not read any 7 depositions to prepare yourself for today. 8 A. I read my transcript from the Mindel 9 case. 10 Q. 11 A. From the Mindel case. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. And that's an individual that 13 worked at a plant in Louisville called Louisville 14 Gas & Electric. 15 A. I don't recall. 16 Q. Okay. But you gave a deposition about 17 three years ago telephonically in the Mindel case. 18 A. Yes. I'm -- I don't know what you mean 19 by "telephonically." I -- I was -20 Q. The attorney asking you questions was 21 on the phone like -- and you -- you listened to a 22 speakerphone like that, the questions. 23 Do you remember that? 24 A. No, I don't. 25 Q. Okay. All right. Other than reading Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:12 Richard Johnson 1 your sworn testimony in the Mindel case, have you 2 reviewed any other testimony? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Now, have you gone out and done any 5 research to prepare yourself for today? 6 A. No. I've only reviewed past things 7 that I presented in other cases. 8 Q. Sure. Did you -- you've given -- how 9 many depositions have you given? 10 A. I haven't counted them, but more than 11 ten. 12 Q. All right. And how many times have you 13 testified in trial on -- in an asbestos trial on 14 behalf of Foster Wheeler? 15 A. I recall two. 16 Q. Okay. And one was in Florida, right? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. A fellow named Bob Speciale put you on 19 as a witness, right? 20 A. Yes. 21 MR . BLOW: Dave. Dave Speciale. 22 MR . SATTERLEY: Oh, did I say -- 23 MR . BLOW: Dave. 24 MR . SATTERLEY: Oh, Dave, I'm sorry. 25 BY MR. SATTERLEY: Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 13 Richard Johnson 1 Q. 2 correct? Dave Speciale put you on as a witness, 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And that was in 2009. 5 A. I believe so. 6 Q. Okay. When was the other time you 7 testified before a jury? 8 A. It was in California. 9 Q. Okay. And do you remember the name of 10 that case? 11 A. No, I don't. 12 Q. Do you remember who put you on as a 13 witness in that case? 14 A. Mr. Speciale was there. 15 Q. Okay. For Foster Wheeler. 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. And how long ago was that? 18 A. It was -- I don't recall. Four or five 19 years. 20 Q. Was it before or after the Florida 21 trial? 22 A. I believe it was after. 23 Q. Okay. And in those trials, did he put 24 you on to talk about Foster Wheeler and their 25 historical knowledge relating to asbestos? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:14 Richard Johnson 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Okay. Now, in -- in the testimonies 3 you've given in deposition over the years, I take 4 it that you have prepared yourself to give 5 testimony for Foster Wheeler, correct? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. And you reviewed documents and so 8 forth? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Okay. And at the depositions, you're 11 presented with documents and Exhibits, and those 12 are generally marked as Exhibits, things like that, 13 right? 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 Q. And you -- have you -- after each 16 deposition, do you build upon that knowledge you 17 learned from that deposition? 18 A. Build upon the knowledge? 19 Q. Sure. 20 A. From my own deposition? 21 Q. Sure. 22 A. I don't know -- I don't understand 23 that. 24 Q. Let me -- let me explain. 25 A. My knowledge was already there. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 15 Richard Johnson 1 Q. Yes, let me explain. Like, for 2 example, when did you first start giving testimony 3 for Foster Wheeler? 4 A. In the middle '90s. 5 Q. In -- 20 years ago. 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. All right. And -- and then I take it 8 as you progressed in being this corporate 9 representative for the historical knowledge, 10 there'd be new things that you'd learn about from 11 one deposition to the next. 12 A. Certainly there were different factors 13 to which I was exposed. 14 Q. Sure. And -- and so, for example, I 15 read -- I read some of your prior testimony, and I 16 think counsel -- I mentioned earlier the case of 17 Galassi. 18 Do you remember the Galassi deposition? 19 A. Only by name. 20 Q. It lasted about four days. Do you 21 remember that? 22 A. I remember that. 23 Q. Over a couple months. Do you remember 24 that? 25 A. Not specifically. I remember the name Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:16 Richard Johnson 1 Q. That was back in 2007, and -- and 2 before I ask the next question, off the record I 3 asked counsel and I suggested to counsel that I 4 wouldn't reask every question in that deposition if 5 we could designate, subject to objection to -- you 6 know, I guess whatever objection you guys have, you 7 don't have a problem us utilizing prior testimony, 8 correct? 9 MR. BLOW: Well, I guess it depends upon 10 what the testimony is and whether or not there are 11 objections to that -12 MR. SATTERLEY: Okay. 13 MR. BLOW: -- testimony, so, I mean -14 MR. SATTERLEY: But -- but generally -- the 15 Kentucky law will control. It's an admission of a 16 party opponent, so -17 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 18 Q. But let me just ask you. 19 So, for example, in the 2007 deposition in 20 Galassi, if you were presented with information 21 that you didn't know about or documents that you 22 didn't know about, did you go back and -- and 23 research that particular topic to prepare yourself 24 for the next deposition? 25 A. Not necessarily. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 17 Richard Johnson 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. Depends upon the document. I was shown 3 documents 30 years old. I didn't go back and 4 research them. 5 Q. Sure. And -- and I may show you some 6 documents 50 years old or 60 years old today, and 7 so we'll -- we'll -- we'll talk about that in a 8 little bit. 9 Now, with regards to Foster Wheeler's 10 involvement in Big Rivers in Kentucky, you don't 11 have any knowledge about that, right? 12 A. No, I don't. 13 Q. Okay. And you don't have any testimony 14 to offer that Foster Wheeler ever warned Big Rivers 15 anything about asbestos. 16 A. No. 17 Q. Okay. Speaking of -- just to get some 18 background information about Foster Wheeler, since 19 you are a 40-year employee -- and by the way, you 20 worked most of the time in the Dansville facility? 21 A. I resided at the Dansville facility. I 22 would travel around the world. 23 Q. You know what Heat Engineering is, 24 right? 25 A. Yes. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 18 Richard Johnson 1 Q. It's a -- is that a publication of 2 Foster Wheeler? 3 A. Yes, sir. 4 Q. Okay. You wouldagree,would you not, 5 that Foster Wheeler was -- manufactured - 6 historically manufactured boilers, correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And Foster Wheeler, when they 9 manufactured these boiler -- when they're these 10 really big boilers, they would sometimes have 11 engineers that would oversee the construction of 12 the boiler . 13 A. Yes. 14 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 15 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 16 Q. And Foster Wheeler, the boilers that 17 they manufactured, they would actually design the 18 boilers themselves, correct? 19 A. I'm not sure. There were boilers that 20 they designed. 21 Q. Okay. And you were a member of an 22 organization called the ASTM, correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And that's the American Society of 25 Testing Materials, correct? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 19 Richard Johnson 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. And did Foster Wheeler formulate 3 standards with regards to issues surrounding 4 boilers? 5 A. That's a broad question. 6 Q. Sure. 7 A. You say "standards." 8 Q. Sure. 9 A. I think it's standards as they were 10 issued by ASTM. 11 Q. Okay. But you were Foster Wheeler's 12 representative with ASTM, correct? 13 A. Yes, sir. 14 Q. And what -- what does the ASTM do? 15 A. They, and Foster Wheeler in my case, 16 studied and provided standard specifications, and 17 procedures sometimes, for insulation products. 18 Q. Now, did Foster Wheeler -- did they 19 market their boilers for sale to customers? 20 A. I assume so, yes. 21 Q. Did they label -- did they put a label 22 on the boilers? 23 A. Some boilers -- if you refer to a 24 label, some boilers had a big "FW" on them. 25 That's -- I realize that. I -- I remember that. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:20 Richard Johnson 1 Q. Yes, and did -- did -- with regards to 2 the standards you were talking about earlier, did 3 Foster Wheeler formulate these insulation standards 4 for their boilers? 5 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 6 THE WITNESS: They had a catalog of standard 7 materials that were acceptable -- 8 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 9 Q. Sure. 10 A. -- to Foster Wheeler. 11 Q. And -- and they had an insulation 12 standards catalog? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And in the '60s, the insulation -- the 15 Foster Wheeler insulation standards catalog 16 included asbestos, correct? 17 A. It included -- 18 MR. BLOW: Objection, form. 19 THE WITNESS: -- asbestos-containing 20 insulations, yes. 21 MR. SATTERLEY: Okay. I'm going to mark as 22 Exhibit 2 this document. 23 The following was marked for Identification: 24 EXH. 2 one-page document entitled 25 "Product: Foster Wheeler Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:21 Richard Johnson 1 Boilers." 2 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 3 Q. And I'll provide a copy to your 4 counsel, and there's a pen there for you. 5 So with those questions in mind that I just 6 asked you about -- these are questions. It said 7 "Did Foster Wheeler manufacture boilers?" 8 The question -- the answer to that would be 9 yes, correct? 10 A. That's correct. 11 Q. So check off "yes" for me, please. 12 "Did Foster Wheeler oversee construction of 13 boilers?" The answer to that would be yes -- 14 MR. BLOW: Form. 15 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 16 Q. -- correct? 17 A. Sometimes, yes. 18 Q. All right. Check "yes" on that. 19 Do you know whether in -- at Big Rivers they 20 oversaw construction of -- of the Foster Wheeler 21 boilers? 22 MR. BLOW: Objection to form . 23 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 24 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 25 Q. Question number 3, "Did Foster Wheeler Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:22 Richard Johnson 1 design the boilers?" 2 Question -- answer to that would be yes, 3 correct? 4 MR. BLOW: Form. 5 THE WITNESS: No, not as a general term. I 6 don't know which ones they were involved with. 7 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 8 Q. All right. So as it -- as it relates 9 to - - well, just in general. I'm not asking on a 10 specific job site. Just in general, did Foster 11 Wheeler design boilers? 12 A. Foster Wheeler designed some of the 13 boilers which they furnished. 14 Q. All right. Check off "yes" on that 15 one, then, please. Because these are just general 16 questions, because you don't know anything about 17 Big Rivers. 18 A. Where's this test going? 19 Q. Pardon? 20 A. Where's this test going? 21 Q. I just want to make sure that we're on 22 the same page. 23 Now, number -- 24 A. Okay. 25 Q. Question 4 is "Did Foster Wheeler Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:23 Richard Johnson 1 formulate standards which required the use of 2 asbestos products?" Generally. 3 A. No. 4 Q. The answer to that, in your mind, would 5 be no. 6 A. No, because you said "required." 7 Q. Okay. Would you change that -- what 8 would you -- what would change the word "required" 9 to? 10 11 A. I'd leave that up to you to change. Q. Okay. But how about this: 12 Did Foster Wheeler formulate standards which 13 included the use of asbestos products? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Okay. So let's just mark through 16 "required" and put "included" there and then check 17 off "yes." How's that sound? 18 A. I don't know. I'm not sure why we're 19 doing this , but -20 Q. Okay. 21 A. Where does this go when I get through? 22 Q. It's -- it's an Exhibit for the -- for 23 the jury to see later, okay? 24 So if you could just put "included" and 25 check off "yes" there, then. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:24 Richard Johnson 1 A. I'm putting "included the" -- 2 "included." 3 Q. Okay. 4 A. I can't read on the top of that. 5 Q. Included the use -- included asbestos 6 products as one of the -- as one of the -7 A. No, asbestos-containing products. 8 Q. Asbestos-containing products. Okay. 9 Now, the next question. In the 1960s, did 10 Foster Wheeler warn about the hazards of asbestos? 11 A. No. 12 Q. All right. And what about the 1970s? 13 Are you aware of any warnings about the hazards of 14 asbestos? 15 A. If warnings were required by the OSHA 16 laws in '70 , they certainly would have been 17 applied. 18 Q. Do you have any documentary examples of 19 any warnings Foster Wheeler gave to anybody? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Okay. Next question is "Did Foster 22 Wheeler market boilers?" 23 The answer to that question would be yes, 24 correct? 25 A. What do you mean by "market," sir? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:25 Richard Johnson 1 Q. Market, advertise, put -- promote. 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Okay. And then the next -- the last 4 question on this is "Did Foster Wheeler label its 5 boilers?" 6 And I think you told me that would be yes, 7 correct? 8 A. Just like below. 9 Q. All right. There's a picture right 10 below that with a nice Foster Wheeler plaque, 11 right, and that's the plaque that would go on a 12 label, correct? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. All right. Would you set Exhibit 2 to 15 the side there, sir? 16 And now I'm going to go to Exhibit 3. 17 A. This okay? 18 The following was marked for Identification: 19 EXH. 3 two-page document entitled 20 "Sources of information." 21 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 22 Q. And I'll provide a copy to your -- to 23 your lawyer. There you go. 24 These are -- this is what's called "Sources 25 of information," and I want to ask you, just so Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:26 Richard Johnson 1 that it's clear what we're looking at and folks on 2 the phone can hear -- sources of information 3 include medical journals, medical meetings, medical 4 textbooks, trade publications, general 5 publications, internal corporate documents, 6 consultants, lawsuits, and workers' compensation 7 cases is on the second page there. Okay? 8 A. Yes, sir. 9 Q. So have you, in preparation for being 10 the person most knowledgeable to speak for Foster 11 Wheeler Corporation, sought out to review these 12 sources of information about the hazards of 13 asbestos? 14 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. Could you -- 15 could you ask him separately for each one? 16 MR. SATTERLEY: Sure. 17 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 18 Q. Let's go through -- let's go -- have 19 you, as the -- as the person most knowledgeable 20 designated to speak on behalf of the corporation, 21 sought out what Foster Wheeler knew via medical 22 journals? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Have you sought out to review -- and -25 and by the way, before I leave that, Foster Wheeler Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:27 Richard Johnson 1 had a technical library, correct? 2 A. Yes, sir. 3 Q. And that technical library was located 4 where? 5 A. Wherever the research center was. 6 First in New York and then in Livingston, and it 7 stayed in Livingston when the corporation moved to 8 Perryville at -9 Q. Okay. And in -10 A. -- at the research center. 11 Q. And in the research center and the 12 technical library, there were scores and scores of 13 articles, books, and periodicals in the technical 14 library, correct? 15 A. I never counted them, but there were 16 many, yes. 17 Q. In the past, you've testified, have you 18 not, that there were scores and scores of articles, 19 books, and periodicals? 20 A. If you count every book and paper in 21 it, of course. 22 Q. Okay. Do you know where all those 23 books and periodicals went to? Where they're 24 located at ? 25 A. No, I don't know where they are today. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:28 Richard Johnson 1 I'd have to guess. 2 Q. When you -- when you say you have to 3 guess, what do you mean? Where would you guess? 4 A. I don't guess. 5 Q. Okay. All right. So you don't know -6 you don't have a clue as to where -7 A. When I left the corporation, they were 8 always at the research center. 9 Q. Okay. When you first were given this 10 job to be the person most knowledgeable to speak 11 for Foster Wheeler, did you go back to the 12 technical library to review those scores and scores 13 of articles, books, and periodicals? 14 A. No. 15 Q. The second sources of information -16 I'm specifically focussed on asbestos, now, on all 17 of these topics -18 A. Okay. 19 Q. -- is medical meetings. 20 Have you gone back to -- to research if 21 Foster Wheeler attended any medical meetings about 22 asbestos? 23 A. You would have to define "medical 24 meeting" for me. 25 Q. Meetings where doctors and industrial Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:29 Richard Johnson 1 hygienists talked about the hazards of asbestos. 2 A. I don't know what they talked about. 3 There were -- but there were meetings between 4 doctors and Foster Wheeler people at times in my 5 life. 6 Q. Sure. So did you go back and review 7 all the way back to, for example, the 1930s and the 8 1940s, 1950s when various Foster Wheeler personnel 9 attended medical meetings? 10 A. No. 11 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 12 THE WITNESS: Sorry. 13 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 14 Q. At the -- did you try to reconstruct 15 all of the occasions when Foster Wheeler personnel 16 would attend medical meetings even in the '60s, the 17 '70s, or the '80s about asbestos? 18 A. No. 19 MR. BLOW: Form. 20 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 21 Q. Now, the third category of sources of 22 information is medical textbooks. 23 Have you gone back to review and try to 24 figure out whether Foster Wheeler had in its 25 possession various medical textbooks that talked Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 30 Richard Johnson 1 about asbestos? 2 A. No, Foster Wheeler didn't specialize in 3 medicine, and there were no textbooks, to my 4 knowledge. 5 Q. Okay. Did you go back, though, to look 6 in the technical library to see if there was any 7 medical textbooks in the library? 8 A. No, because by -- when I started 9 testifying, I had already retired. I have been not 10 been back to the library since. 11 Q. All right. When you -- when you -- 12 before you retired, did you attempt to make a 13 survey of all the scores of publications in the 14 technical library to see if any of them touched 15 upon medical issues? 16 A. No. 17 Q. The next -- the next sources of 18 information that I was going to ask you about is 19 trade publications. 20 Have you gone back to reconstruct all the 21 various trade publications that Foster Wheeler 22 would have received over the years that would have 23 touched upon asbestos or -- or dust-related 24 diseases? 25 A. No. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:31 Richard Johnson 1 MR . BLOW: Objection to the form of the 2 question. 3 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 4 Q. And -- and I've -- I've noticed that in 5 some of the testimonies you've given from time to 6 time, there's discussions of various trade 7 publications, correct? 8 A. But these were ones that were furnished 9 in deposition. 10 Q. Okay. 11 A. Not my visual look-see in the library. 12 Q. I'm sorry? 13 A. I didn't see these in the library. I 14 saw them in deposition. Someone else presented 15 them. 16 Q. Okay. I see. So in -- in the 17 depositions, these trade publications would be 18 presented to you, and they would say, you know, 19 this organization existed, and they would ask you 20 questions about whether Foster Wheeler was 21 involved. 22 A. Sometimes, yes. 23 Q. For example, one that I think you had 24 agreed to in the past was the National Safety 25 Council. You know what that is, right? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:32 Richard Johnson 1 A. I know it was. 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. It exists, yes. 4 Q. The National Safety Council was a -- a 5 trade association to which Foster Wheeler was a 6 member of, correct? 7 A. That's been established, yes. 8 Q. Okay. And -- and from time to time, 9 attorneys would present you with various 10 publications that came from the National Safety 11 Council that talked about dust or asbestos, 12 correct? 13 MR. BLOW: Form. 14 THE WITNESS: Only in deposition. 15 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 16 Q. Sure. After the depositions occur 17 and -- and the attorneys present you with these 18 trade publications, do you go back to research 19 to -- to try to verify one way or the other Foster 20 Wheeler's involvement in -- in those trade 21 associations? 22 A. No, sir. 23 Q. The next is general publications. Have 24 you gone back to look to see if there are general 25 publications about asbestos or dust that Foster Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:33 Richard Johnson 1 Wheeler personnel would have received? 2 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 3 THE WITNESS: No. 4 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 5 Q. Okay. Internal corporate documents. 6 And I -- I know that some documents were produced 7 in the Galassi deposition, but I guess my question 8 is: 9 For today's deposition, have you gone back 10 to try to obtain and gather all the Foster Wheeler 11 internal corporate documents that touched upon 12 asbestos? 13 A. To my knowledge, all of those documents 14 have been furnished to me. I didn't go looking for 15 them. 16 Q. All right. And who furnished those to 17 you? 18 A. The attorneys. 19 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 20 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 21 Q. I'm -- I'm sorry, who? Who? The 22 attorneys? 23 A. In further testimony, these came forth. 24 I didn't go looking for them. 25 Q. Okay. So attorneys for Foster Wheeler Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:34 Richard Johnson 1 provided you with some internal company documents, 2 correct? 3 MR. BLOW: Objection to the form of the 4 question. 5 THE WITNESS: They arose during deposition. 6 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 7 Q. Okay. At the -- but -- well, I thought 8 you said the attorneys for Foster Wheeler gave you 9 some internal company documents. 10 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 11 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 12 Q. Is that accurate? 13 MR. BLOW: That was what you said. 14 THE WITNESS: No, attorneys period, not 15 necessarily Foster Wheeler's. 16 For instance, some of the presentations were 17 my own documents. 18 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 19 Q. Oh, I see. So -- but for this 20 particular case, have you gone back to try to 21 gather up all the internal corporate documents 22 relative to asbestos historically? 23 A. No, sir, I haven't gone back, period. 24 Q. Okay. Have you attempted to go back to 25 gather as a source of information all the various Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:35 Richard Johnson 1 consultants that Foster Wheeler has used over the 2 years to consult on asbestos issues? 3 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 4 THE WITNESS: No. 5 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 6 Q. And then the last one. Have you gone 7 back to review and to gather up as a source of 8 information about asbestos various lawsuits or 9 workers' compensation claims that have been made 10 against Foster Wheeler? 11 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 12 THE WITNESS: I've only seen what was 13 reviewed in deposition. 14 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 15 Q. You -- I think you -- your testimony 16 is, and correct me, that you reviewed a spreadsheet 17 somebody provided you. 18 A. In -- in deposition, yes. 19 Q. And the spreadsheet was individuals 20 that -- with workers' compensation claims against 21 Foster Wheeler alleging asbestos disease, correct? 22 A. I saw those in deposition. 23 Q. All right. You can set Exhibit 3 to 24 the side. Now, have you in -- well, strike that. 25 Let me ask a -- a different question. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:36 Richard Johnson 1 You would agree that Foster Wheeler was a 2 long-time member of the American Society of 3 Mechanical Engineers, correct? 4 A. I am aware they were a member. I don't 5 know how long the time is. 6 Q. You know that some of the leaders with 7 the Foster Wheeler Corporation had served as a 8 board member, board of directors, of the American 9 Society of Mechanical Engineers, correct? 10 A. They may have. 11 Q. There is an individual that was a 12 vice-president of -- of Foster Wheeler in 1965 13 named William D. Stevens. Did you know him? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And he worked for Foster Wheeler, 16 correct? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And you know that he was a member of 19 the American Society of Mechanical Engineers, 20 correct? 21 A. Only if you tell me so. I -- 22 Q. Have you gone back to figure out how 23 many -- try to figure out how many individuals was 24 a member of the American Society of Mechanical 25 Engineers that was a Foster Wheeler employee? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:37 Richard Johnson 1 A. No. 2 Q. Martin Frisch? 3 A. Frisch. 4 Q. Frisch? F-R -- 5 A. Frisch. 6 Q. Frisch? F-R-I-S-C-H. 7 He was one of the leaders of Foster 8 Wheeler's back in the '50s, correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And he was a member of the -- well, 11 first, he was a board member of the American 12 Society of Testing Materials, correct? 13 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 14 THE WITNESS: If you say so. 15 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 16 Q. Okay. Have you gone back to figure 17 that out? 18 A. No. 19 Q. All right. Did you know he was a 20 member of the American Society of Mechanical 21 Engineers? 22 A. No. 23 Q. All right. Let me ask you about some 24 other names. 25 William Martwick. Do you know who that is? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:38 Richard Johnson 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Was he the first president and chairman 3 of Foster Wheeler? 4 A. Not to my knowledge. 5 Q. Who was the first president? 6 A. I don't know. It was back in the '20s. 7 Q. Okay. Foster Wheeler was formed as a 8 corporation in 1927, correct? 9 A. I believe so. 10 Q. All right. What about Thomas Hoffman? 11 Did you know Thomas Hoffman? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Have you gone back to try to figure out 14 whether or not any of the board members, people 15 that were board -- board of director -- officers or 16 directors of -- of Foster Wheeler -- whether they 17 also belonged to boards of other corporations? 18 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 19 THE WITNESS: No. 20 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 21 Q. So, for example, if Thomas Glenn 22 Hoffman was a treasurer of Foster Wheeler at the 23 same time he was on General Electric's board, 24 that's news to you. 25 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:39 Richard Johnson 1 THE WITNESS: Yes, it is. 2 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 3 Q. All right. And then Arleigh Burke. Do 4 you know who Arleigh Burke is? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Who's Arleigh Burke? 7 A. Well, he was more famous for his Naval 8 career, but he was, I believe, a director of Foster 9 Wheeler. 10 Q. And he was a director of Foster 11 Wheeler, and he was also -- he used to be an 12 admiral in the Navy, right? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. And did you know at the same time he 15 was on the Foster Wheeler board that he was on the 16 board of Chrysler and Texaco and the Newport News 17 Shipbuilding Company? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Would you agree that one of the ways -20 if we're trying to figure out corporate knowledge, 21 one of the ways to figure out corporate knowledge 22 is to figure out what individuals within the 23 corporation knew? 24 MR. BLOW: Objection, form. 25 THE WITNESS: There's an awful lot of Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:40 Richard Johnson 1 individuals. 2 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 3 Q. Sure. With Foster Wheeler, there's 4 been thousands and thousands of individuals working 5 for Foster Wheeler, right? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. Okay. And -- but one of the ways to 8 figure out whether or not a corporation has 9 knowledge is to try to figure out whether those 10 individuals that are managing the corporation had 11 knowledge about asbestos issues. 12 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 13 THE WITNESS: I could never do that. 14 There's too many of them. 15 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 16 Q. Okay. Now, you do know, though -- and 17 correct me if I'm wrong -- who Earle Mills was. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Earle Mills was an admiral, and he was 20 in the Navy, right? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And Earle Mills eventually became 23 president in 1950 of Foster Wheeler. 24 A. That's correct. 25 Q. And he stayed as president and then Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:41 Richard Johnson 1 later became chairman of Foster Wheeler until about 2 1958. 3 A. If you say so. That's about right. 4 Q. Okay. Do you recall testifying about 5 that previously? 6 A. I recall his name coming up in 7 testimony. 8 Q. Okay. And -- and do you recall 9 testifying that he was the president and chairman 10 until 1958? 11 A. I may have. I -- I don't recall that 12 now. 13 Q. You know that Earle Mills knew that 14 asbestos was dangerous, correct? 15 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 16 THE WITNESS: No, I didn't know that. 17 MR. BLOW: Foundation. 18 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 19 Q. Well -- you didn't know that Earle 20 Mills knew asbestos was hazardous, insulation was 21 hazardous? 22 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 23 THE WITNESS: No, that's too broad a term 24 for me, sir. I can't -25 BY MR. SATTERLEY: Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:42 Richard Johnson 1 Q. Well, have you not -2 A. -- say I knew that. 3 Q. Have you not seen in the many 4 deposition and trials that you've participated in 5 the fact that Earle Mills, when he was in the Navy, 6 an admiral in the Navy, wrote specifically about 7 asbestos and asbestos hazards? 8 MR. BLOW: Form. 9 THE WITNESS: He may have. I don't recall 10 exactly what it was. 11 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 12 Q. You don't recall the -- the many 13 depositions where you've been presented with 14 memorandums about Earle Mills in the 1940s? 15 A. I didn't memorize them, sir. Yes, I -16 I may have. 17 Q. But -- I didn't ask you to memorize 18 them, and I apologize, but do you -- do you recall 19 being presented with in trials -- the trial in 20 Miami or -- was it Miami or was it -- the trial in 21 Florida. 22 Do you recall in the trial in Florida being 23 presented with information about Admiral Mills and 24 his writings about asbestos in the '40s? 25 A. I don't remember the specifics. That Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:43 Richard Johnson 1 may have happened. 2 The following was marked for Identification: 3 EXH. 4 color photocopy entitled 4 "Earle W. Mills." 5 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 6 Q. You've seen pictures of Earle Mills in 7 the past, have you not? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Let me show you Exhibit 4, and I 10 apologize , I don't have an extra copy. 11 It 's a picture, and it says "Earle Mills, 12 president of Foster Wheeler." 13 Is that a picture of him? 14 A. Yes. He didn't really look that gruff, 15 but -16 Q. Okay. 17 A. -- that's him. 18 Q. And you would agree that he -- in the 19 '40s, he knew of -- of some of the hazards of 20 asbestos, correct? 21 A. He may have. 22 Q. All right. 23 A. I -- you've got to define "hazards" for 24 me. 25 Q. That -- that it could cause disease. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:44 Richard Johnson 1 That asbestos insulation could cause -- could cause 2 disease. 3 A. No, you -- I have to ask. I'm an 4 engineer, sir. 5 How much asbestos? Asbestos isn't -- 6 doesn't just cause disease. You have to tell me 7 the -- the circumstances before I could give you an 8 answer. 9 Q. Let me show you Exhibit 5. 10 The following was marked for Identification: 11 EXH. 5 document entitled "September 12 21, 1945, Admiral Mills." 13 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 14 Q. This is a portion of a letter you've 15 been presented, I think, many times. It's dated 16 September 21st, 1945, from Admiral Mills to Philip 17 Drinker, and it says: 18 "Enclosure, two copies of a Health Survey of 19 Pipe Covering Operations in Constructing Naval 20 Vessels." 21 You've seen that in the past, correct? 22 A. Is this what is known as the 23 Fleischer-Drinker Report or -24 Q. It -- it later became the Fleischer -25 later there was a Fleischer-Drinker Report. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:45 Richard Johnson 1 A. Yes, I've seen that. 2 Q. Okay. And you know that Admiral Mills 3 was in the Navy, and he participated and got the 4 Fleischer- Drinker study under way, correct? 5 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 6 THE WITNESS: He may have. 7 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 8 Q. Okay. Well, you know that from your 9 review of materials, right? 10 A. I don't recall that. 11 Q. Okay. 12 A. I do know he was involved. 13 Q. Okay. Yes. Just so the record's 14 complete, let me mark as Exhibit 6 the 15 Fleischer- Drinker Report. 16 The following was marked for Identification: 17 EXH . 6 Fleischer-Drinker Report. 18 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 19 Q. That is the Fleischer-Drinker Report? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. And you've seen that many times, 22 correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. 25 correct? And that was published in 1946, Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:46 Richard Johnson 1 A. I -- if you say so. 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. It says "Received for publication 4 1945, " yes. 5 Q. Okay. And -- and that -- that -- it 6 says "September 21st, 1945," right? 7 A. That's correct. 8 Q. And that's the same date as this letter 9 from Mills to Drinker, at least the portion of the 10 letter that I've showed you as Exhibit 5, correct? 11 A. All I see is the -- 12 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 13 THE WITNESS: -- addresses on the letter, 14 yes. 15 16 17 18 19 20 BY MR. SATTERLEY: Q. It says "September 21st, 1945." A. That's correct. Q. Okay. The following was marked for Identification: EXH. 7 color photocopy entitled 21 "Draft of the report sent to 22 Admiral Mills on September 23 21, 1945." 24 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 25 Q. And attached to this -- it says Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:47 Richard Johnson 1 "Enclosure" -- do you see back to Exhibit 5 2 there -- "two copies of a Health Survey of Pipe" -3 "Pipe Covering Operations"? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. And -- and this Exhibit 6, 6 that's what's called "A Health Survey of Pipe 7 Covering Operations"? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. All right. Exhibit 7 here is a portion 10 of that attachment here, and what I want -- it's 11 dated September 21st, 1945. Do you see that? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And what I want to focus your attention 14 on is it talks about Bath Works -- Bath Iron Works. 15 Do you know that? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And it says -- talking about asbestos 18 and dust, it says "In industry, the disease is 19 often disabling." 20 Do you see that? 21 A. That's what it says, yes. 22 Q. Would you -- would you agree, then, 23 this shows and this proves that Admiral Mills -- at 24 least by 1945, that asbestos could cause disease 25 and could be disabling? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:48 Richard Johnson 1 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 2 THE WITNESS: We knew in 1920 that asbestos 3 could be disabling in large volumes. 4 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 5 Q. Okay. Let's set these Exhibits to the 6 side. 7 And what happened in 1920 to -- to allow 8 Foster Wheeler to know that? 9 A. I knew that when I went to college, 10 that asbestos and silica and beryllia and many -11 many materials were dangerous in significant 12 exposures. 13 Q. Have you seen any instance of Foster 14 Wheeler measuring the level of asbestos on any job 15 site? 16 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 17 THE WITNESS: When you say "level," what do 18 you mean? 19 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 20 Q. To figure out the doses. Do you -21 have you seen any documents where Foster Wheeler in 22 the '40s, '50s, '60s went out to a job site and 23 measured the level of asbestos? 24 MR. BLOW: Form. 25 THE WITNESS: I have not seen any documents Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:49 Richard Johnson 1 before -- you know, in the -- up through the -- to 2 the '60s. 3 The following was marked for Identification: 4 EXH . 8 color photocopy. 5 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 6 Q. Exhibit Number 8, I'll hand a copy to 7 your counsel there also, is a -- a document I found 8 that listed Foster Wheeler Corporation as being at 9 Fifth Avenue -- 666 Fifth Avenue, New York, New 10 York. 11 Is -- did they have a headquarters there? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And it says the president, a John -- is 14 John -- is John Kenney -15 A. Kenney. 16 Q. -- Kenney, K-E-N-N-E-Y, correct? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And so this would be later, because 19 Kenney didn't become the president until the 20 mid-'60s, correct? 21 A. I don't recall the date, but if you say 22 so. 23 Q. Well, we'll go -- we can go through the 24 annual reports in a little bit, if need be. 25 It says it has laboratories in New Jersey Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:50 Richard Johnson 1 and in New York, correct? 2 A. And Dansville. 3 Q. Exactly. Dansville, New York. 4 A. I'm sorry, you didn't say Dansville. 5 Q. Dansville, New York, and also in New 6 Jersey, correct? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. And then it talks about research staff, 9 and it says "Ernest L. Daman," D -10 A. Daman. 11 Q. Daman. Did you know him? 12 A. Yes, he was my boss. 13 Q. He was your boss? And he was the 14 director of research? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. All right. And then P.S. Klick? Who 17 is that? 18 A. He was director of personnel. 19 Q. All right. And then it says -- it's 20 got "four chemists; engineers: two ceramic, six 21 chemical, 17 mechanical; six metallurgists, 25 22 technicians, and eight auxiliaries." 23 Do you know what that refers to? 24 A. That apparently was the size of his 25 staff at that time. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:51 Richard Johnson 1 Q. Okay. And it says the research is on 2 steam generating equipment, heat transfer, fluid 3 flow, combustion, metallurgy, chemical processing 4 of petroleum and other hydrocarbons, chemical 5 process development, structure analysis and 6 development. 7 Is that what -- some of the research that 8 was ongoing ? 9 A. That's what it says, yes. 10 Q. Were you one of the ceramic engineers? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. So when it says "two ceramic," 13 who was the other ceramic engineer? 14 A. There was another ceramic specialist 15 who worked for me. 16 Q. And who -- what was that person's name 17 A. His name was Lee Egbert, E-G-B-E-R-T, 18 at that time. 19 Q. Okay. Is he -- is he passed on? 20 A. Yes. 21 MR. BLOW: Note my objection to the -- to 22 the document. Is there -- is there a -- an 23 addition to this or -- or some indication as to 24 what publication it came from or what year this 25 was -- Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:52 Richard Johnson 1 MR. SATTERLEY: I think it's '65 or '66, but 2 I don't know. I apologize. I'll try -- at a 3 break, I'll try and figure that out. 4 MR. BLOW: Okay. 5 MR. SATTERLEY: Let's -- we can set that 6 Exhibit to the side. 7 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 8 Q. Now, with regards to -- we're up to 9 Exhibit 9. 10 The following was marked for Identification: 11 EXH. 9 color photocopy entitled 12 "1933 NSC Invisible Dust." 13 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 14 Q. The National Safety Council. You -- 15 you said that Foster Wheeler was a member of that 16 organization, correct? 17 A. I'm informed so, yes. 18 Q. And have you -- you've been presented 19 in depositions with some of the National Safety 20 Council publications, correct? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. I'm going to show you a -- a piece of 23 one, and I've marked this as Exhibit 9, and this is 24 from 1933, the National Safety News, and it -- this 25 article's called "The Mechanical Control of Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:53 Richard Johnson 1 Occupational Diseases." 2 You've seen this in the past, correct? 3 A. I'm not sure. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. I'd have to read it and -6 Q. You would have to read it? 7 A. Um-hum. 8 Q. The part I want to ask you about says: 9 "Medical research has shown us that the dust 10 that is the most dangerous through its deep 11 inhalation into the lungs is so small that the 12 individual particles are invisible and can only be 13 seen by the naked eye if they are gathered in a 14 dense cloud which may have the appearance of a gray 15 fog." 16 Do you see that? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Now, my -- my question is: 19 Back in the '30s, '40s, '50s, have - - or 20 even '60s, have you seen any attempt by Foster 21 Wheeler to document the level of dust that exists 22 around a Foster Wheeler boiler? 23 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 24 THE WITNESS: How far up did you go in the 25 years ? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:54 Richard Johnson 1 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 2 Q. To the '60s. 3 A. No. 4 Q. Okay. It says: 5 "It is better to spend the money and effort 6 in getting rid of the dust than to be overwhelmed 7 by occupational disease claims, as is the case with 8 many industrial concerns today." 9 Do you see that? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Did you see any effort by Foster 12 Wheeler in the '50s or the '60s to eliminate 13 asbestos insulation from its specifications? 14 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 15 THE WITNESS: There were times in the '50s 16 where we sprayed asbestos, and we stopped spraying 17 in -- in the '60s. 18 So yes, there were cases where we stopped 19 using it for different reasons, one of them being 20 there were better materials. 21 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 22 Q. Did -- did Foster Wheeler stop using 23 asbestos materials because of the health hazards? 24 MR. BLOW: Form. 25 THE WITNESS: You'd have to define "health Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:55 Richard Johnson 1 hazard" again, sir. 2 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 3 Q. It caused people to get sick in some 4 capacity. 5 A. Get sick being near -- I don't know of 6 any occasion where any Foster Wheeler person was 7 subjected to any level of asbestos exposure that 8 would have been dangerous. 9 Q. My question is: Did Foster Wheeler -- 10 in its decision to stop using asbestos, did they do 11 it because of health reasons? 12 A. There was no -- 13 MR. BLOW: Form. 14 THE WITNESS: -- general decision. This was 15 an evolution over several years. 16 Nobody said stop until the OSHA regulations 17 came out stating there may be a danger, at which 18 point they decided let's not even use asbestos 19 anymore, asbestos-containing material. 20 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 21 Q. And -- and so you're saying in 19 -- it 22 was 1972 when OSHA came out when Foster Wheeler 23 made the decision to stop using asbestos. 24 MR. BLOW: Form. 25 THE WITNESS: No. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:56 Richard Johnson 1 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 2 Q. Well, what -3 A. Foster Wheeler stopped using some 4 asbestos-containing materials way back in the -- in 5 the middle of the '60s. 6 Q. How long did Foster Wheeler continue to 7 utilize asbestos -- I guess when's the last time 8 that they used asbestos? 9 MR. BLOW: Form, overbroad. 10 THE WITNESS: I don't know the exact date, 11 but there were -- was something -- there was 12 something called Flexitallic gasket which was 13 deemed harmless. 14 It had to be purchased because the Navy 15 specified it, and that was the last one to be 16 removed, and that was probably in the '70s. 17 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 18 Q. Okay. Didn't Foster Wheeler develop a 19 corporate policy about asbestos in 1983 to 20 discontinue the use of asbestos insulation? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. And is that the -- that's the 23 first corporate policy that you're aware of that -24 wherein they stated -- Foster Wheeler stated they 25 will no longer use asbestos insulation. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:57 Richard Johnson 1 A. No, there were corporate policies that 2 were -- were promulgated in the -- in the '70s. 3 Q. Okay. We'll get to the '83 policy in a 4 little bit. 5 Let me show you Exhibit 10. This is another 6 National Safety Council, and I've got a copy for 7 your lawyer. 8 The following was marked for Identification: 9 EXH. 10 color photocopy entitled 10 "1935 NSD Invisible Dust." 11 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 12 Q. This is called "No Halfway Measures in 13 Dust Control" by Arthur S. Johnson. Once again, 14 this is in the National Safety News. This one's in 15 1935, the September edition. 16 You have previously been presented this 17 publication in the past, correct? 18 A. I may have. 19 Q. And this particular publication, it 20 says: 21 "I think we need to digress for a moment to 22 visualize what is meant by 5 million particles of 23 dust of such tiny size. We know it is invisible to 24 the naked eye, because it takes 15 to 20 times that 25 much to produce a haze, and even that isn't visible Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:58 Richard Johnson 1 as particulate material." 2 Do you see that? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Did Foster Wheeler recognize in the 5 past -- in the '30s, '40s, '50s, '60s -- that when 6 you have clouds of dust that are visible, that you 7 have much -- much greater than 5 million particles 8 of dust? 9 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 10 THE WITNESS: I don't recall all these huge 11 clouds of dust, to start with; and second, this 12 mentions -- this is just a snippet from that 13 article, but it mentions 5 million particles. That 14 was shown to be acceptable by Dr. Selikoff in 1968. 15 We never exceeded that 5 million particles. 16 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 17 Q. I'll move to strike as -- portions that 18 are nonresponsive. 19 Do have any contemporaneous documents, dust 20 measurements, to -- to prove to this jury that 21 Foster Wheeler never -- never exceeded the 22 5 million particle -23 A. No. 24 MR. BLOW: Objection to form after you're 25 done. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:59 Richard Johnson 1 THE WITNESS: Except for -- except for the 2 testimony I've given regarding Dr. Selikoff's 3 meeting where it was pointed out we were below 4 that -- that level. 5 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 6 Q. We'll come to that in a minute, but 7 my -- my question, though, is: 8 Do you have any documentary evidence, 9 measurements, dust measurements that Foster Wheeler 10 took to demonstrate that insulation in association 11 with their boilers never exceeded 5 million 12 particles per cubic foot? 13 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 14 THE WITNESS: At what point? 15 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 16 Q. At any point in time. 17 A. There were measurements taken in the 18 '60s, and these were documented. 19 Q. By Foster Wheeler? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Okay. Do you have any documentary 22 evidence to support your statement that Foster 23 Wheeler never had levels of asbestos insulation 24 above 5 million particles per cubic foot? 25 A. Yes. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:60 Richard Johnson 1 MR . BLOW: Objection to form. 2 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 3 Q. Where is that documented? 4 A. There's a document with regard to the 5 Wyandotte boiler, with regard to the Florida 6 boilers. 7 Tests were made to determine -8 Q. All right. 9 A. -- if there were dangerous levels. 10 Q. The Wyandotte, Michigan boiler? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. 13 A. And Florida Power & Light, Turkey 14 Point. 15 Q. Were you personally involved in either 16 one of those measurements? 17 A. I didn't make them, no, but I've been 18 to Turkey Point. 19 Q. Okay. And did you bring those 20 measurements with you here today? 21 A. I don't have the document here. 22 Q. Let's -- let me ask you: 23 Other than this Wyandotte, Michigan, and the 24 Florida Power & Light, are you aware of any 25 attempts that Foster Wheeler took to figure out Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:61 Richard Johnson 1 whether dust levels were above or below 5 million 2 particles? 3 A. There were other tests conducted in the 4 plant in the '70s. 5 Q. Okay. In Dansville? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Okay. Setting aside in the plant in 8 Dansville, out in the field where boilers were 9 being installed, are you aware of any dust 10 measurements that Foster Wheeler did other than the 11 Michigan one and the Florida one? 12 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 13 THE WITNESS: Well, there again, at what 14 times? Because you mentioned in the '70s. We 15 weren't putting asbestos-containing materials in 16 boilers in late '70s, to my knowledge. 17 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 18 Q. All right. I don't want to talk about 19 the late '70s. Let's just -- just let's talk -20 A. But you said '70s, so -21 Q. Well, let's talk about whenever Foster 22 Wheeler was specifying asbestos insulation. 23 During that time frame, do you have any 24 documentary evidence of Foster Wheeler measuring 25 the levels of dust to determine whether it was Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:62 Richard Johnson 1 above or below 5 million particles per cubic foot? 2 MR. BLOW: Form. 3 THE WITNESS: Foster Wheeler never specified 4 asbestos insulation, to start with. There may have 5 been some asbestos-containing insulations in the 6 earlier years that were allowable if the customer 7 wanted them or approved them. 8 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 9 Q. Move -- move to strike portions that 10 are nonresponsive. 11 My question, sir, related to documentations 12 of measurements in the field. Do you have -- does 13 Foster Wheeler have any documentations of 14 measurements in the field of the level of asbestos 15 to determine whether it was above or below 16 5 million particles? 17 A. Yes, I've already testified with regard 18 to what was reported at the Selikoff meeting with 19 regard to Florida Power & Light and Wyandotte, and 20 there was another boiler out in Ohio -21 Q. Okay. So you got -22 A. -- or a building in Ohio where they 23 were spraying asbestos. 24 Q. Spraying asbestos in Ohio, okay. And 25 we got -- you told me about Florida. You told me Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:63 Richard Johnson 1 about Michigan. Any others? 2 A. Yes, the -- I don't know if that was a 3 Foster Wheeler job, the spraying of asbestos in 4 Ohio. That was a building, but there's a report 5 and documents stating that they were below 6 dangerous. 7 Q. Okay. Any others that you're aware of? 8 A. You're asking me to give you every test 9 for -- yes, there were others, but I -- I can't 10 document them to you, sir. 11 Q. That Foster Wheeler did. 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Okay. There was others? 14 A. They ran several tests in the Dansville 15 plant. 16 Q. Okay. All right. Let's set Dansville 17 aside. I'm talking about out in the field where 18 boilers are being erected. 19 A. I wasn't out in the field. I can't 20 testify to that. 21 Q. And I'm not asking about your personal 22 knowledge. I'm asking your knowledge as Foster 23 Wheeler. 24 Are you aware of any other measurements that 25 Foster Wheeler did to try to figure out whether Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:64 Richard Johnson 1 exposure levels were above or below this 5 million 2 standard? 3 MR. BLOW: Form. 4 THE WITNESS: At any time? 5 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 6 Q. In the '50s, '60s, or '70s. 7 A. Not beyond what I've told you about, 8 sir. 9 Q. We'll set Exhibit 10 to the side. 10 The following was marked for Identification: 11 EXH. 11 color photocopy entitled 12 "1936 National Safety Council 13 Knowledge re: invisible 14 dust." 15 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 16 Q. Another National Safety Council 17 publication. This is Exhibit 11. This is the -18 October the 9th, 1936, from the National Safety 19 Congress Friday Morning Session on occupational 20 diseases where it says: 21 "Asbestos work and many other occupations 22 offer opportunities for employees to inhale 23 microscopic dust particles and create a foundation 24 for future incapacity." 25 And my question to you would be: Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:65 Richard Johnson 1 If Foster Wheeler was a member of the 2 National Safety Council in 1936, this would have 3 been information available to it, correct? 4 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 5 THE WITNESS: It's information that was in 6 this publication. I do not know - 7 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 8 Q. And this is written by - 9 A. -- how available it was. 10 Q. I'm sorry? 11 A. I don't know how available it was. 12 Q. This was written by a Dr. Robert B. 13 Hunt, medical advisor for the American Mutual 14 Liability Insurance Company in Boston. 15 Do you see that? 16 A. Yes, sir. 17 Q. All right. You can set that Exhibit to 18 the side. One more National Safety Council News, 19 and this is 1963. 20 The following was marked for Identification: 21 EXH . 12 color photocopy entitled 22 "1963 NSC Don't Poison 23 Families." 24 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 25 Q. Provide a copy to your counsel. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:66 Richard Johnson 1 This one is in the National Safety News 2 published by the National Safety Council in 1963, 3 and the article is called "Dust, Fumes, and Mist in 4 Industry" published by the National Safety Council, 5 425 North Michigan Avenue, Chicago. 6 And my question -- well, let me first tell 7 you. It says: 8 "Also, contaminated work clothes should not 9 be taken home where a toxic dust could contaminate 10 the home or expose other members of the family?" 11 Do you see that? 12 A. That's what it says, yes. 13 Q. Did Foster Wheeler in the 1960s develop 14 any policies or procedures to eliminate take-home 15 exposure of asbestos dust? 16 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 17 THE WITNESS: That's a very broad question. 18 Not to my knowledge. 19 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 20 Q. Did the -- in the 1970s, did Foster 21 Wheeler develop a policy or procedure to eliminate 22 or reduce take-home exposure from asbestos? 23 MR. BLOW: Objection to form, overbroad. 24 THE WITNESS: In the 1970s, Foster Wheeler 25 wasn't installing products that had asbestos as we Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:67 Richard Johnson 1 progressed through the '70 and '75 OSHA laws, so 2 there were no large volumes of asbestos-containing 3 materials, to my knowledge, in Foster Wheeler's 4 initial installations. 5 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 6 Q. Move to strike portions that are 7 nonresponsive. Sir, I apologize. My question 8 wasn't -- my question was policy. 9 Did they develop a policy, Foster Wheeler, 10 in the '70s with regard to take-home work clothes 11 and asbestos? 12 A. Not to my knowledge -13 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 14 THE WITNESS: -- no. 15 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 16 Q. Okay. Now, in addition to -- in 17 addition to the National Safety Council, you're 18 familiar with the organization called the National 19 Founders Association, true? 20 A. No, I'm not familiar with it. National 21 Foundry? Oh, I thought you said "founders." 22 Q. No, Founders -- Founders Association in 23 Chicago. 24 A. I'm told there was an association like 25 that. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:68 Richard Johnson 1 Q. And we're up to Exhibit 13. I'll 2 provide a copy to your counsel. 3 The following was marked for Identification: 4 EXH. 13 two-page document dated 5 August 2, 1934, National 6 Founders Association. 7 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 8 Q. And this is a 1934 document, August the 9 2nd, 1934, from E.O. Jones to the members of the 10 National Founders Association. 11 Do you see that? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And over to the left-hand side, there 14 is -- and I've highlighted for you -- William 15 Lonsdale, Foster Wheeler Corporation - - is it 16 Cateret (phonetic), New Jersey? 17 A. Carteret. 18 Q. Carteret, New Jersey. 19 You know that William Lonsdale was a Foster 20 Wheeler employee, correct? 21 A. No, only because you told me he was a 22 while back. 23 Q. Well, you testified previously, did you 24 not, that he was a Foster Wheeler employee, 25 correct? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:69 Richard Johnson 1 A. Because you told me he was a Foster 2 Wheeler employee, I did. 3 Q. All right. 4 A. I did not know him. 5 Q. You -- you did not personally know him, 6 but you knew and you've seen in the past that he 7 was a vice-president of Foster Wheeler, correct? 8 A. You've told me that. 9 MR. BLOW: Form. 10 THE WITNESS: Yes. 11 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 12 Q. All right. Well, let me show you -- I 13 don't want it to be me telling you. Let me show 14 you what I'll mark as Exhibit 14. 15 The following was marked for Identification: 16 EXH. 14 1950 Annual Report. 17 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 18 Q. You know what a Foster Wheeler annual 19 report is, right? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. This is Exhibit 14. This is the 22 1950 - - and I apologize, I don't have multiple 23 copies . This is the 1950 annual report of Foster 24 Wheeler. 25 If you could flip over to the -- the page Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:70 Richard Johnson 1 right there, it -- I've got several names 2 highlighted, and I want -- right here, William 3 Lonsdale, vice-president, manufacturing, right? 4 A. That's fine. I accept that. 5 Q. Okay. And these -- these -- this page 6 has directors and officers, right? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. All right. So at this point in time, 9 1950, he was vice-president, and -- and these were 10 all the various directors that I've highlighted 11 there, correct? 12 A. That's what it says, yes. 13 Q. And by the way, take a look at that for 14 a minute, just verify that that is Foster Wheeler's 15 annual report for 1950. 16 A. Yes, I assume it is. 17 Q. Okay. I don't want you to assume. 18 Take -- 19 A. Well, I don't know. I haven't read the 20 whole thing. 21 Q. Well, take a look at it. Take a look 22 at it. 23 A. You want me to read the whole thing? 24 Q. Not the whole thing. Just -- if you -- 25 A. I don't know what the annual report -- Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:71 Richard Johnson 1 a complete annual report looks like. What you've 2 presented me appears to be the Foster Wheeler 3 annual report. 4 Q. Okay. If you could, yes, turn to that 5 page right there. 6 In -- in the annual report, it -- it has 7 information about changes in the directors and 8 officers. Do you see that? 9 A. Um-hum. 10 Q. And it's -- 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And it says that -- that's when it says 13 that Admiral -- Admiral Mills from the Navy is 14 going to be the president, correct? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And it also makes reference to Harry S. 17 Brown. He had passed -- passed on. 18 Do you see that? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And did you know that Harry S. Brown 21 was -- do you know his involvement -- 22 A. No. I'm sorry. 23 Q. I'm sorry. Do you know his involvement 24 with regards to his knowledge about asbestos 25 issues? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:72 Richard Johnson 1 A. I know nothing about Harry S. Brown. 2 Q. Do you know Mr. Brown's involvement 3 with the American Society of Mechanical Engineers? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Do you know Mr. Brown's involvement 6 with any other corporations, being on the direct -- 7 being on the board of directors of other 8 corporations? 9 A. No. 10 Q. All right. So we can go back to the 11 part -- the vice-president. It says "Lonsdale" -- 12 "William Lonsdale, vice-president." Do you see 13 that? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. All right. Now, let's go back to 16 Exhibit 13 there, and this has got "William 17 Lonsdale, Foster Wheeler Corporation" on the 18 left-hand side. 19 Do you see that? I've highlighted it right 20 there for you. 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And it says in this -- I've highlighted 23 in the second paragraph, it says: 24 "There is, unfortunately, still a 25 considerable difference of opinion among the Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:73 Richard Johnson 1 medical fraternity and scientists as to the 2 pathologic effects of certain types of dust, and 3 this lack of agreement has been capitalized into a 4 'rocket' by some doctors and lawyers." 5 Do you see that? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And -- and it goes on to say in the 8 next paragraph: 9 "Dr. Gardner and his associates are making 10 considerable progress, and the country at large 11 will benefit from the results of their work." 12 Do you see that? 13 A. Yes, sir. 14 Q. And the next paragraph says: 15 "To this end, we will call you periodic" -16 "we will mail you" -- excuse me, "mail you 17 periodically bulletins giving you" -- "giving the 18 best information available on the subject." 19 A. That's what it says. 20 Q. At the bottom, it says "Bulletin 21 Number 1 is enclosed." Do you see that? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And if we flip over, we've got bulletin 24 number 1, August 1st, 1934. Do you see that? 25 A. Yes. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:74 Richard Johnson 1 Q. And it says, the second paragraph: 2 "Since the inception of the NRA, the 3 Secretary of Labor has appointed various committees 4 with the ideal to develop basic standards for 5 safety and health of workers in industry." 6 Did I read that correctly? 7 A. Yes, sir. 8 Q. It says: "One of" -- "One of these 9 committees has been active in drafting lists for 10 the consideration of each industry setting forth 11 what may be classified as hazardous occupations." 12 Do you see that? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. "Under one such list submitted to the 15 code authority, the following was included: 16 'In processes where quartz or any other form 17 of silicon dioxide or asbestos silicate is present 18 in powdered form.'" 19 Do you see that? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Would you agree -- and this is -- at 22 the bottom, it says: 23 "We suggest that all foundry codes be 24 closely scrutinized when such occupational lists 25 are submitted for consideration and that any other Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:75 Richard Johnson 1 provisions which may be proposed with regard to 2 safety and health be checked over very carefully." 3 Do you see that? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And that's by E. -- E.O. Jones, 6 National Founders Association. 7 You would agree, sir, that Mr. -- more 8 likely than not, the fact that Mr. Lonsdale was on 9 the administrative council and his name is on this 10 letter, that Foster Wheeler would have been aware 11 of this information. 12 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 13 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 14 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 15 Q. Okay. Have you researched that? 16 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 17 THE WITNESS: No, I have not. 18 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 19 Q. Have -- haven't you been presented 20 with -- haven't you been presented with this exact 21 memorandum in the past? 22 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 23 THE WITNESS: I don't recall seeing it now. 24 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 25 Q. You can set that Exhibit to the side. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:76 Richard Johnson 1 The following was marked for Identification: 2 EXH. 15 document dated November 3, 3 1934, National Founders 4 Association. 5 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 6 Q. The next document is once again from 7 the National Founders Association, and this is 8 November the 3rd, 1934, a few months later. 9 And it's -- appears that there was a -- a 10 meeting of the National Founders Convention at the 11 Waldorf Astoria on Wednesday and Thursday, 12 November 14th and 15th, 1934. 13 Do you see that at the bottom? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. All right. And if you could flip over 16 to the fourth page, I've got it highlighted there. 17 There is the call to order at 10 a.m. There is a 18 discussion called "Dust Problems." 19 Do you see that? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And then there's also a section called 22 "Problems of Compensation for Occupational 23 Diseases." Do you see that? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Have you researched, in your role as Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:77 Richard Johnson 1 person with the most knowledge, Foster Wheeler's 2 knowledge about this in 1934? 3 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 4 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 5 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 6 Q. Okay. Have you researched this in the 7 past? 8 A. No -- 9 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 10 THE WITNESS: -- I have not. 11 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 12 Q. Flip over to the next page, and it's 13 got the administrative counsel, and it's got about 14 halfway down the administrative council "William 15 Lonsdale, Foster Wheeler Corporation," correct? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And then over on the executive 18 committee on this next page over, it's got "William 19 Lonsdale, The Foster Wheeler Corporation," correct? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. And we flip over to the next page, the 22 nominations. There's some -- a nominations 23 committee, and William Lonsdale from Foster Wheeler 24 Corporation is identified, correct? 25 A. Yes. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:78 Richard Johnson 1 Q. And then we go over to the next page, 2 resolution -- actually, it's the same page. It's 3 just -- there's two pages on one. 4 A. I see it. 5 Q. Yes. And that one's R.H. (sic) Ballard 6 of General Electric Company. Do you see that? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. At West Lynn, Massachusetts. 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Then we go over to the next page, the 11 district committees. We've got -- the first 12 district committee, we've got E.H. (sic) Ballard 13 from the General Electric Company. 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And then we've got -- for the second 16 committee, we got William Lonsdale from Foster 17 Wheeler Company. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Okay. You can set that Exhibit to the 20 side. 21 Now, I'm not going to go through these in -22 in any great detail, because I know you've seen 23 these many times in the past. 24 We are up to Exhibit 16. 25 The following was marked for Identification: Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:79 Richard Johnson 1 EXH. 16 "Dust in Industry," 2 Mechanical Engineering, 3 February 1933. 4 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 5 Q. American Society of Mechanical 6 Engineers, the publication called Mechanical 7 Engineering. This one's dated 1933, "Dust in 8 Industry." 9 You've seen this in the past, correct? 10 A. I may have. 11 Q. And you know that at -- at this time 12 frame in 1933, Foster Wheeler was -- had employees 13 that were a member of the American Society of 14 Mechanical Engineers, correct? 15 A. They may have. 16 Q. Okay. Well, you've been presented with 17 that in depositions and in court in front of a 18 jury, right? 19 MR. BLOW: Form. 20 THE WITNESS: I just can't name all the 21 people in 1933 that read any magazine, including 22 Mechanical Engineering. 23 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 24 Q. And I didn't ask you to -- to name all 25 the people. I just -- generally, you're aware that Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:80 Richard Johnson 1 Foster Wheeler employees were a member of the 2 American Society of Mechanical Engineers in 1933, 3 correct? 4 A. I assume so. 5 Q. Okay. And if you flip over to this -6 the name of this paper, it's called "Dust in 7 Industry," correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. By Frederick Willson. 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Dr. Willson, right? 12 A. Right. 13 Q. I'm not going to go through it today 14 with you again, because you've been -- you've been 15 through this before, right? 16 A. Probably. 17 Q. Okay. So when -- when -- and that last 18 page is a certification of where it came from, 19 authenticity, but it -- the -- I guess when -- when 20 you've been presented with these documents in the 21 past at depositions or at trials, do you go back 22 and research to -- to verify one way or the other 23 Foster Wheeler's level of involvement with the 24 American Society of Mechanical Engineers? 25 MR. BLOW: Objection to form, asked and Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:81 Richard Johnson 1 answered. 2 THE WITNESS: No. 3 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 4 Q. Exhibit 17 is a couple months later in 5 1933. 6 The following was marked for Identification: 7 EXH. 17 "Dust in Industry," 8 Mechanical Engineering, April 9 1933. 10 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 11 Q. April of 1933. Here's a copy for your 12 counsel. 13 And this is another publication from the 14 American Society of Mechanical Engineers by J.J. 15 Bloomfield talking about dust in industry. 16 A. Yes, I see it. 17 Q. All right. And this one has to do with 18 the sampling and analysis of industrial dust. Do 19 you see that at the top? 20 A. That's what it says. 21 Q. All right. And my question to you is: 22 Do you know, at any point in time from 1933 23 until your meeting with Dr. Selikoff in 1968, of 24 Foster Wheeler sampling industrial dust in 25 association with insulation in their boilers? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:82 Richard Johnson 1 MR. BLOW: Objection to form, asked and 2 answered. 3 THE WITNESS: No. 4 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 5 Q. We can set that Exhibit to the side. 6 The following was marked for Identification: 7 EXH. 18 "The Control of Industrial 8 Dust," Mechanical 9 Engineering, October 1933. 10 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 11 Q. Exhibit 18 is a few months later, 12 October of 1933 -- copy for your lawyer -- and this 13 one is another American Society of Mechanical 14 Engineers publication called Mechanical 15 Engineering, correct? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. And this one -- this particular one is 18 called "The Control of Industrial Dust, The Problem 19 of Local Exhaust and General Ventilation." 20 Do you see that? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And you would agree that by this point 23 in time in 1933, Foster Wheeler would have been 24 aware of ways in which to control industrial dust, 25 correct? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:83 Richard Johnson 1 MR. BLOW: Objection, form. 2 THE WITNESS: No, I don't know that. 3 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 4 Q. Okay. You don't know that? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Well, let me ask you this: 7 Did -- are you aware of any instance where 8 Foster Wheeler, out in the field where the boilers 9 were being installed, took steps in the '50s or 10 '60s or even up to 19, say, '71 to control 11 industrial dust -- 12 MR. BLOW: Object -- 13 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 14 Q. -- in the construction of their 15 boilers? 16 MR. BLOW: Objection to form, overbroad. 17 THE WITNESS: Any dust in a construction 18 site? 19 MR. BLOW: Wait for me. Wait for me. 20 THE WITNESS: Sorry. 21 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 22 Q. Sure. Any dust. 23 MR. BLOW: Just let me get my objection on 24 the record . Objection to form, overbroad, lacks 25 foundation . Go ahead. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:84 Richard Johnson 1 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 2 Q. Sure, any dust. Prior to 1971. 3 A. No. 4 Q. Okay. 5 A. You're asking me if -- if I'm aware? 6 Would you ask the question again, please? 7 Q. Sure. My question is: 8 With regard to controlling industrial dust, 9 are you aware of Foster Wheeler, on any -- out on 10 any job site prior to 1971, controlling industrial 11 dust in conjunction with the erection of a Foster 12 Wheeler boiler? 13 MR. BLOW: Form. 14 THE WITNESS: Yes, there were ventilation 15 fans in many of the areas where it was dusty. 16 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. Not necessarily due to any asbestos 19 content, but they did control the dust 20 environments, if they existed. 21 Q. And who did that? 22 A. I don't know. I wasn't there. 23 Q. Well, have you seen documentation of 24 this occurring? 25 A. No. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:85 Richard Johnson 1 Q. All right. So that's just your 2 speculation, true? 3 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 4 THE WITNESS: It's my observation based upon 5 other Foster Wheeler activities in later years. 6 MR. BLOW: Joe, what number -7 MR. SATTERLEY: That was 18. 8 MR. BLOW: 18? 9 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 10 Q. Now, you told me earlier that you 11 hadn't gone back and looked at the library -12 technical library. 13 Had -- did -- Foster Wheeler, correct me if 14 I'm wrong, was -- was heavily involved in selling 15 products to the military, correct? 16 MR. BLOW: Form. 17 THE WITNESS: They were involved, yes. 18 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 19 Q. I mean, they sold lots of boilers to 20 lots of different -- to the Navy for lots of 21 different ships, right? 22 A. Yes, they did. 23 Q. Okay. The -- there's a book called 24 "Manual of Industrial Hygiene and Medical Service 25 in War Industries" published in 1943. The editor Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:86 Richard Johnson 1 is William Gafafer, and I've got a couple copies of 2 it here. 3 I'll hand it to you. Take a look at it, 4 and -- and have you attempted to determine whether 5 Foster Wheeler had this book? 6 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 7 THE WITNESS: No. 8 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 9 Q. You have not made that attempt. 10 MR. BLOW: Form. 11 THE WITNESS: No. 12 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 13 Q. Okay. Now, if you flip over to the 14 very -- the -- I guess the page here that says 15 "Manual of Industrial Hygiene" right there. 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. It's got contributors over on the 18 left- hand side. Do you see the bunch of -- those 19 names over there? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And -- and some of those contributors 22 are names of folks that we've seen in some of the 23 other Exhibits. 24 A. If you say so. I - - I don't recall. 25 Q. Yes, well, Bloomfield. Go -- go back Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:87 Richard Johnson 1 to the contributor list. 2 J.J. Bloomfield. Do you see that? 3 A. Um-hum. 4 Q. And you see Allen Brandt? Do you see 5 Allen Brandt? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And you see W.C. Dreessen? 8 A. I see them all, yes. 9 Q. Okay. And have you gone back to try to 10 figure out Foster Wheeler and their knowledge of 11 these various contributors to this Manual of 12 Industrial Hygiene? 13 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 14 THE WITNESS: No. 15 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 16 Q. Now, if you flip over to page 151 in 17 this 1943 publication, it has a -- a section on 18 Occupational Disease, and I want to focus you on 19 number 4. Do you see number 4? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Asbestosis. It says: 22 "A characteristic, diffuse interstitial 23 fibrosis of the lungs induced by fibrosis minerals 24 which, according to animal experimentation, is due 25 to the mechanical action of the asbestos producing Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:88 Richard Johnson 1 a ground-glass appearance on the x-ray." 2 Do you see that? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. "It may cause disability, and a few 5 fatal cases have been recorded." 6 Do you see that? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Do you know whether Foster Wheeler -9 did they ever participate in any experimentation 10 with regards to whether asbestos was dangerous? 11 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 12 THE WITNESS: At any time or back when this 13 was written or -14 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 15 Q. Well, let's do '40s, '50s, and '60s. 16 A. And would you repeat the question again 17 in terms of the '60s? 18 Q. Sure. Did Foster Wheeler participate 19 in any experimentation with regards to whether 20 asbestos could cause disease? 21 MR. BLOW: Same objection. 22 THE WITNESS: No, we had no medical 23 facilities. 24 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 25 Q. For example, earlier there was a Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:89 Richard Johnson 1 reference to a Dr. Gardner in that -- that National 2 Founders Association memorandum. 3 Did you guys ever try to hire Dr. Gardner to 4 do any research for you? 5 MR. BLOW: Form. 6 THE WITNESS: No. 7 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 8 Q. Did -- are you aware of any money spent 9 by Foster Wheeler to research the disease 10 asbestosis in the '40s or the '50s? 11 MR. BLOW: Form, overbroad. 12 THE WITNESS: We were not a medical research 13 group. I know of no such effort. 14 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 15 Q. Move to strike the portions before he 16 said "no." 17 Let's flip over to page 350 of this book. 18 A. Okay. 19 Q. This has to do with the prevention and 20 control of disease in industry. That's what it 21 says at the top, and this particular chapter says 22 "Plant Sanitation." Do you see that? 23 A. Um-hum. 24 Q. I want to direct -25 MR. BLOW: Yes? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:90 Richard Johnson 1 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 2 Q. You've got to say yes or no. I 3 apologize. 4 A. I'm sorry. Yes. 5 Q. I want to direct your attention to 6 number 2 here, right here on dressing rooms. It 7 says: 8 "Dressing rooms should be provided for men 9 whenever the type of work performed involved 10 exposures to excessive dust, dirt, heat, fumes, 11 vapor, or moisture of such a degree and is declared 12 by the enforcing authority to require the same. 13 "Two compartment lockers or preferably two 14 individual lockers should be provided in dressing 15 rooms for employees whose clothes are exposed to 16 contamination with poisonous, infectious, or 17 irritating material." 18 Do you see that? 19 A. Yes, I do. 20 Q. Do you know whether, at any point in 21 time in the '50s, '60s, or '70s, Foster Wheeler 22 implemented this suggestion of -- of two lockers, 23 dressing rooms so that individuals' clothing could 24 be segregated out if it had irritating materials or 25 poisonous materials? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:91 Richard Johnson 1 MR. BLOW: Objection to form, lacks 2 foundation. 3 THE WITNESS: I'm sure if they were aware of 4 poisonous materials, they would have done this. I 5 don't have any documentation to prove that. 6 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 7 Q. Sure. Are you aware of any point in 8 time in even the '60s or '70s Foster Wheeler had -9 had created a situation where -- two locker 10 compartments and dressing rooms around insulation 11 materials? 12 MR. BLOW: Objection to form, foundation, 13 overbroad. 14 THE WITNESS: You're making it very 15 difficult. 16 There were situations where welders, for 17 instance, had wore coveralls, and they replaced 18 them at the time. If they were working in dirty 19 environments, they replaced their coveralls. 20 And that's the closest I think we had to 21 come to anything like that. We didn't have the 22 exposure that's indicated here. 23 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 24 Q. Well, I guess my -- move to strike 25 portions that are nonresponsive. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:92 Richard Johnson 1 My question was not asking about exposure 2 levels. My question was did you guys ever have a 3 situation where you had separate lockers, dressing 4 rooms for people around insulation materials. 5 MR. BLOW: Form. 6 THE WITNESS: No. 7 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 8 Q. Okay. It said -- the last sentence of 9 this paragraph says: 10 "The work clothes should be provided and 11 laundered by the employer." 12 Do you see that? 13 A. Yes, again, we're talking about before 14 the '70s, right? 15 Q. This is 1943. 16 A. Okay. At that time. I understand. 17 Q. Okay. Did -- did Foster Wheeler 18 provide its employees with a laundry service when 19 folks were working with insulation materials? 20 MR. BLOW: Form. 21 THE WITNESS: Not to my knowledge. 22 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 23 Q. I'm finished with that book. Let me -24 let's -- we've been going for a little bit. Why 25 don't we take a -- a -- a break and let me Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:93 Richard Johnson 1 rearrange some stuff, and I think the agreement -- 2 well, we can go off the record, then. 3 MR. SATTERLEY: Let's go off the record 4 first. 5 (A recess was then taken at 1126.) 6 The following were marked for Identification: 7 EXH. 19-32 color photocopies of Heat 8 Engineering, 1929 through 9 1958. 10 (On the record at 1144.) 11 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 12 Q. Sir, we took a break, and during the 13 break, we showed you the Heat Engineering books 14 from -- in this box, the original books. 15 Do you see the Heat Engineering books before 16 you? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And I explained to your counsel and to 19 you that I've got copies -- color copies of each -- 20 each of these, and the purpose of the next few 21 minutes was just going to be to verify the Heat 22 Engineering books for the certain years. 23 And this is 1929, which I've marked as 24 Exhibit 19. If you need to compare it at all, 25 here's -- just so the jury -- Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:94 Richard Johnson 1 A. No. 2 Q. -- knows what we've got, we've got the 3 Heat Engineering book -- books, the originals, and 4 we've got color copies there. 5 And does this appear to be a Heat 6 Engineering book from 1929? 7 A. Yes, it does. 8 MR. BLOW: We'll accept Counsel's 9 representation that these are exact duplicates of 10 the set of books that he has placed on the table. 11 MR. SATTERLEY: And -- and I'll have these 12 available if you guys need additional time to 13 inspect at any point in time during lunch or 14 anything. 15 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 16 Q. Exhibit 20 will be the 1930 Heat 17 Engineering. Just take a look at that just to 18 verify it for me. 19 It's got the Foster Wheeler emblem on it , 20 correct? 21 A. Yes. 22 MR. BLOW: Dick, you can take the rubber 23 band off, if that's easier. 24 THE WITNESS: Pardon me? 25 MR. BLOW: You can take the rubber band off, Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:95 Richard Johnson 1 if that's easier. 2 THE WITNESS: No extra charge for that? Oh, 3 I just -- yes, I -- I hear you. I agree that's the 4 1930 Heat Engineering. 5 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 6 Q. All right. And then Exhibit 21 will 7 be -8 A. This is for the whole year, right? 9 Q. The whole year, yes. 10 A. Okay. 11 Q. And this is 1931, the publication Heat 12 Engineering. 13 By the way, these publications, Heat 14 Engineering, were given to customers, were they 15 not? 16 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 17 THE WITNESS: At that time, I could only 18 assume. 19 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 20 Q. Well, later -21 A. I don't know. 22 Q. When you -- when you became aware of 23 Heat Engineering, you knew that they were used both 24 internally and also given to customers as sort of 25 to promote Foster Wheeler. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:96 Richard Johnson 1 MR . BLOW: Form. 2 THE WITNESS: Yes, I was given some, and 3 they were given to customers. 4 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 5 Q. Okay. This is -- Exhibit 21, is that 6 the 1931 Heat Engineering? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. All right. And Exhibit 30 -- excuse 9 me, 22 is the 1932 Heat Engineering. 10 A. Yes, it is. 11 Q. And Exhibit 23 is the 1933 Heat 12 Engineering. 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Exhibit 24 is the 1934, '35, and '36 15 Heat Engineering. 16 A. Okay. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. And we've -- we've -- we've -- 18 we're missing a couple years, but I've got 1941 as 19 the next one, and that's going to be Exhibit 25. 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Exhibit 26 will be 1944 and 1945. 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Exhibit 27 will be the 1947, '48, and 24 '49 Heat Engineering published by Foster Wheeler. 25 A. Yes, it is. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:97 Richard Johnson 1 Q. And Exhibit 28 is the 1950 Heat 2 Engineering by Foster Wheeler. 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And by the way, was -- did you start -- 5 that -- that few months that you started before you 6 went to mortuary school, was that '51 or '52? 7 A. '53. 8 Q. '53, okay. So let's see. We're up to 9 Exhibit 29, which is the 1951 Foster Wheeler Heat 10 Engineering publication. 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Exhibit 30 is the 1952 Heat Engineering 13 publication by Foster Wheeler. 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. 19 -- excuse me. Exhibit 31 is the 16 1954 and '55 publication of Foster Wheeler called 17 Heat Engineering. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And the last -- 20 A. The index isn't centered. Yes, okay. 21 Q. -- full copy of -- the last -- I'm 22 sorry, you were saying? 23 A. No, the index isn't centered. They're 24 both years. I understand. 25 Q. Okay. And the Heat Engineering '57 -- Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:98 Richard Johnson 1 1957, 1958 is Exhibit 32, correct? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. All right. Let's go off the video just 4 so we can move this big stack of books out of the 5 way, if that's okay with you. 6 MR. SATTERLEY: Can we go off the video for 7 just a second? 8 (A recess was then taken at 1149.) 9 (On the record at 1150.) 10 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 11 Q. So I want to just understand a little 12 bit about the Heat Engineering. 13 It's my understanding that the Heat 14 Engineering publication had within it information 15 about some of the various jobs and -- and work that 16 Foster Wheeler did over the years, correct? 17 A. That's correct. 18 Q. It would have information about the 19 various types of boilers and the generators and the 20 equipment, both land-based and marine-based. 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. It would have information about boilers 23 that were put in at various generating plants 24 around the country? 25 A. The ones that I have seen, yes. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page:99 Richard Johnson 1 Q. And not only just around the country. 2 It was around the world, because Foster Wheeler 3 had -- 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. -- had equipment placed all over the 6 world. 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And -- and when we talk about boilers, 9 we're -- some of these boilers are 10 or 12 stories 10 tall. 11 MR. BLOW: Form. 12 THE WITNESS: There are boilers that are 10 13 or 12 stories tall, yes. 14 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 15 Q. That Foster Wheeler manufactured. 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. Foster Wheeler certainly held 18 itself out to the world as an expert on boilers, 19 right? 20 MR. BLOW: Form. 21 THE WITNESS: Yes. 22 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 23 Q. And it held itself out to the -- to its 24 customers as experts on the design of the boilers, 25 correct? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 100 Richard Johnson 1 MR. BLOW: Form. 2 THE WITNESS: Yes, they had to be. 3 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 4 Q. And -- and in your research to figure 5 out -- well, strike that. 6 In becoming the person most knowledgeable -- 7 MR. SATTERLEY: Did somebody just join us? 8 MS. HAGAN: Yes, this is -- 9 MS. VITESKIC: Joe Satterley, this is Ena 10 Viteskic, and I have to leave the deposition, so 11 Laura Hagan from our office is going to sit in for 12 the rest of the deposition. 13 MR. SATTERLEY: That's fine. That's fine. 14 MS. VITESKIC: Thank you, and this is on 15 behalf of Big Rivers. 16 MR. SATTERLEY: Yes, no problem. 17 MS. VITESKIC: Thanks. 18 MR. SATTERLEY: Thank you. 19 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 20 Q. In -- in preparing to be the person 21 most knowledgeable on behalf of Foster Wheeler 22 about historical knowledge about asbestos, did you 23 review a book called "The Handbook of Dangerous 24 Materials" by Irving Sax? 25 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 101 Richard Johnson 1 THE WITNESS: No. 2 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 3 Q. Okay. And I've got this book here. 4 This one is -- this book is published in 1951 by 5 Irving Sax, toxicologist, General Electric Company, 6 Schenectady, New York. Do you see that? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. All right. You don't have any 9 evidence, do you, that GE sent this book over to 10 Foster Wheeler. 11 MR. BLOW: Form. 12 THE WITNESS: No. 13 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 14 Q. Okay. And so if there's information in 15 this book about asbestos, you -- Foster Wheeler 16 doesn't have this, as far as you know. 17 MR. BLOW: Form. 18 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 19 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 20 Q. Okay. Well, you have no evidence that 21 GE provided information about asbestos to Foster 22 Wheeler, do you? 23 A. No. 24 MR. BLOW: Form, asked and answered. 25 BY MR. SATTERLEY: Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 102 Richard Johnson 1 Q. Okay. The next book I want to ask you 2 about was a Drinker and Hatch. This book is 3 published -- it's called "Industrial Dust," and 4 it's published in 1954. This is a 19 -- by Philip 5 Drinker and Theodore Hatch called "Industrial 6 Dust." 7 Have you -- do you know one way or the other 8 whether Foster Wheeler had this book historically? 9 A. No. 10 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 11 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 12 Q. Don't know one way or the other. 13 A. No. 14 Q. Okay. Now, you mentioned 15 Dr. Selikoff -- oh, before we get to Dr. Selikoff, 16 "The Chemistry of Industrial Toxicology" by Harvey 17 Elkins. This is Harvey B. Elkins. He's the 18 division of occupational hygiene, Massachusetts 19 Department of Labor. Same question: 20 Do you know -- you haven't gone back to try 21 to figure out whether or not Foster Wheeler had 22 this book that was published in 1950. 23 A. No. 24 MR. BLOW: Objection, form. 25 BY MR. SATTERLEY: Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 103 Richard Johnson 1 Q. Now, in this book, there's a chapter 2 called "Maximum Allowable Concentrations." 3 Do you know what -- do you know what maximum 4 allowable concentrations are? 5 A. I don't know. It depends on what 6 you're talking about, sir. 7 Q. Well, earlier you told -- told us that 8 it -- it had been known since 1920 that asbestos's 9 danger is -- it depends on the dose. Do you 10 remember that? How much you get exposed to. 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. And this talks about the maximum 13 allowable concentrations of dust. Do you see that? 14 A. That's what it says, yes. 15 Q. All right. And it says in this 1950 16 book: 17 "It is important to interchange the 18 terms " -- I'm reading upside-down. 19 A. "Threshold." 20 Q. I'm reading upside-down, I'm sorry. 21 "Threshold concentration and toxic limit 22 with maximum allowable concentrations, because most 23 such values are selected arbitrarily." 24 Do you see that? 25 A. Yes. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 104 Richard Johnson 1 Q. And is that your understanding, that 2 the maximum allowable concentrations or 3 threshold -- threshold concentrations were selected 4 arbitrarily? 5 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. Mr. Johnson's 6 not an industrial hygienist, and he's not -7 THE WITNESS: My answer is no. 8 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 9 Q. Okay. You -- you -- you don't know, or 10 no, they're not selected arbitrarily? 11 A. Say it again, your question, please? 12 Q. You don't know whether they're selected 13 arbitrarily or -- or -- or -- or that they aren't 14 selected arbitrarily? 15 MR. BLOW: Same objection. 16 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 17 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 18 Q. Okay. Do you know whether Foster 19 Wheeler at any point in time back in -- this is 20 1950. 21 From 1950 to 1968 when you had that Selikoff 22 meeting, do you know whether Foster Wheeler had -23 had this book and utilized this book in any 24 fashion? 25 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 105 Richard Johnson 1 THE WITNESS: No. 2 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 3 Q. Don't know one way or the other. 4 A. No. 5 MR. BLOW: Form. 6 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 7 Q. Okay. Now, Selikoff -- Dr. Selikoff 8 had a big conference in 1964 in New York City. 9 You -- you know that, correct? 10 A. I'm aware he had a conference before 00 11 12 Q. And have you gone back to research 13 whether anybody at Foster Wheeler knew about that 14 conference? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Have you gone back to research whether 17 anybody at Foster Wheeler attended the conference? 18 A. No. 19 MR. BLOW: Form. 20 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 21 Q. Now, have you ever reviewed the 22 conference proceedings, "The Biological Effects of 23 Asbestos," that was published in 1965, the next 24 year? 25 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 106 Richard Johnson 1 THE WITNESS: No. 2 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 3 Q. I've got this book. It's called "The 4 Biological Effects of Asbestos," Selikoff, Churg, 5 and a whole bunch of other people. Do you see 6 that? 7 (Discussion off the record.) 8 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 9 Q. This is 1965. Do you see that? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. All right. And I want to show you on 12 page 335 -- and I'll read it to you. I've got it 13 highlighted. It says: 14 "We do not believe there is any safe limit. 15 We have our ideals as to how low we can get, and we 16 are always striving to get right down to zero. 17 "We also have our ideals about the American 18 limit of 5 million particles per cubic foot as a 19 safe limit. We know that there is no scientific 20 basis for that limit whatever, and I think that if 21 Dr. T. Hatch had been here, he would have agreed 22 with that, because it has taken up" -- "it has been 23 taken up with him in the past. 24 "Therefore" -- "Therefore, I would like to 25 be clearly understood that we do not accept four Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 107 Richard Johnson 1 fibers per cc. as a safe maximum limit in the 2 asbestos industry." 3 And that's what I've highlighted there on 4 page 335. Do you see that? 5 A. That's what he says, yes. 6 Q. And do you know whether Foster Wheeler 7 ever analyzed whether there was a safe limit on its 8 own? 9 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 10 THE WITNESS: Safe limit was first 11 limited by -- first given by Dr. Selikoff in 1968. 12 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 13 Q. Okay. And that's Foster Wheeler's 14 position, that that's the first time that a safe 15 limit was -- was given, was 1968. 16 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 17 THE WITNESS: Given by whom? 18 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 19 Q. Given to Foster Wheeler by 20 Dr. Selikoff. 21 A. As -- I don't know of any other 22 presentation, no. 23 Q. All right. By the way, you -- the -24 the Fleischer-Drinker Report that we talked about 25 earlier. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 108 Richard Johnson 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. You've not seen any evidence that 3 Foster Wheeler ever relied upon that in the '40s or 4 '50s or '60s, correct? 5 A. There was nothing to rely upon, because 6 they said it was not dangerous in the report. 7 Q. Well, move to strike your opinion -8 the opinion portion of that. 9 We may come back to that in a little bit, 10 but have you seen any evidence that Foster Wheeler 11 had the Fleischer-Drinker Report in the '40s, '50s, 12 or '60s? 13 A. I don't know. 14 Q. Okay. Have you seen any documents that 15 would indicate that Foster Wheeler had the 16 Fleischer-Drinker Report -17 A. I don't -18 Q. -- at that time? I'm sorry? 19 A. I don't recall any. 20 Q. Okay. 21 MR. BLOW: Let him finish the question. 22 THE WITNESS: Sorry. I thought he was 23 through. 24 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 25 Q. You don't recall any documents that Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 109 Richard Johnson 1 would verify that Foster Wheeler had the 2 Fleischer-Drinker, correct? 3 A. No, I don't recall any documents that 4 I'm aware of. 5 Q. Have you spoken to anybody at Foster 6 Wheeler that -- anybody told you, "Hey, we had that 7 Fleischer-Drinker Report, and that's the reason why 8 we kept including asbestos in our insulation 9 standards"? 10 MR. BLOW: Objection to form, calls for a 11 hearsay response. 12 THE WITNESS: I've never heard of such a 13 statement. 14 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 15 Q. Okay. And that's why -- because -16 the -- the reason why I ask you, sometimes lawyers 17 in court make some statements about what Foster 18 Wheeler did or didn't -- didn't occur. I just want 19 to make sure. 20 You speak on behalf of Foster Wheeler. 21 You've never heard anybody working at Foster 22 Wheeler make the statement that "The reason why we 23 kept asbestos in the insulation standards is 24 because the Fleischer-Drinker said it was okay." 25 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. Calls for Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 110 Richard Johnson 1 speculation -2 THE WITNESS: That's much too broad a -3 MR. BLOW: Dick, hold on. Hold on. 4 Objection, form, calls for speculation, 5 lacks foundation, misstates testimony. 6 THE WITNESS: Your question's too broad for 7 me, sir. You'd have to break it down. 8 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 9 Q. Sure. Have you ever seen any -- or 10 have you ever had any conversations with anybody at 11 Foster Wheeler that said, "The reason why we are 12 going to include asbestos in our insulation 13 standards is because of the Fleischer-Drinker 14 Report"? 15 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. Calls for 16 speculation and -17 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 18 MR. BLOW: Hold on, Dick. 19 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. 20 MR. BLOW: And calls for a hearsay response. 21 Sorry. 22 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 23 Q. Well, as you sit here today, do you 24 have any memory of having any conversations -25 A. No. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 111 Richard Johnson 1 Q. -- about that? 2 MR. BLOW: Same. 3 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 4 Q. I'm sorry? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Okay. All right. The very next page, 7 336, of this 1965 publication from the '64 8 conference, it says: 9 "In terms of what has been considered a safe 10 dust count in the area, we started out with a 11 theory that because everybody said it was so, that 12 5 million particles per cubic foot was a safe 13 figure. 14 "Our own conclusion, as we began seeing what 15 was happening in our own process, was the only safe 16 amount of asbestos dust exposure was zero." 17 And I want to show that to you right there 18 and ask you: Had you seen that in the past? 19 A. No, I have not. 20 Q. Okay. Did you know that in 1965 at the 21 Selikoff conference, manufacturers of asbestos 22 products were saying that the only safe amount of 23 asbestos dust was zero? 24 MR. BLOW: Objection, form. 25 THE WITNESS: No. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 112 Richard Johnson 1 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 2 Q. Now, in coming to your belief that 1968 3 was the first time that Foster Wheeler knew about 4 the hazards of asbestos -- and that' s your 5 testimony, correct? 6 MR. BLOW: Objection to form, misstates 7 testimony. 8 THE WITNESS: The first time Foster Wheeler 9 knew? 10 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 11 Q. Yes, was '68. 12 A. First time -- first time I knew. 13 Q. Okay. All right. So in coming -- so 14 that's the first time you knew, so you didn't have 15 any conversations with Mr. Mills or Mr. Frisch -- 16 A. Frisch. 17 Q. -- Frisch or Mr. Stevens or Mr. Hoffman 18 about what they knew about asbestos, did you? 19 A. No. 20 MR. BLOW: Form. 21 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 22 Q. Okay. Did you -- okay. Let's see what 23 else I've got here. 24 Do you know what The Dansville Breeze is ? 25 A. Yes. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 113 Richard Johnson 1 Q. What is The Dan -- Dansville Breeze? 2 A. It's a local newspaper. 3 Q. Do you -- do you know where The Dan -- 4 Danville - - is it a local newspaper published by 5 Foster Wheeler? 6 A. No. 7 Q. It's published by the local paper? 8 A. That's correct. 9 Q. Okay. So -- 10 MR. SATTERLEY: We're up to 33, right? 11 The following was marked for Identification: 12 EXH . 33 photocopy of a newspaper 13 page. 14 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 15 Q. I want to show you a page from The 16 Danville Breeze marked as Exhibit 33, and this is 17 from 1951. February 1st, 19 -- Thursday, 18 February 1st, 1951. 19 Do you recall that The Danville Breeze would 20 occasionally publish information about Foster 21 Wheeler? 22 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 23 THE WITNESS: The Dansville Breeze had 24 public -- their publications reflected activities 25 at Foster Wheeler at times. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 114 Richard Johnson 1 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 2 Q. And so what I've done -- what I'm -- do 3 you recognize this to be a -- a Danville Breeze 4 article about Foster Wheeler? 5 A. It's a page from it. Is this -- I 6 never saw this format, but yes, it -- it -- it 7 appears to be. 8 Q. And what I've done and what I'm going 9 to do over the next set of Exhibits is, because 10 it's difficult to read, on the computer -- with the 11 computer, we can take a piece of that out so that 12 it's easier to read, and -- 13 A. Okay. 14 Q. -- and so -- 15 A. Next time, make the print larger. 16 Q. Well, at trial I'll blow it up to a 17 poster size so everybody can see it. 18 A. Okay. 19 Q. So 34 will be a piece of The Danville 20 Breeze that says "Engineering" -- 21 The following was marked for Identification 22 EXH. 34 color photocopy entitled 23 "Dansville Breeze, Dansvill 24 New York, Thursday, 25 February 1, 1951." Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 115 Richard Johnson 1 MR. BLOW: Thank you. 2 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 3 Q. "Engineering and field erection 4 divisions of the firm hire more employees than all 5 manufacturing plants combined." 6 Is -- was that a -- a fair assessment of 7 Foster Wheeler as of 1951? 8 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 9 THE WITNESS: If you're considering the 10 worldwide activities, yes, it's a fair assessment. 11 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 12 Q. Because the engineering and field 13 erection division was a pretty big division, right? 14 A. I don't know how big it was. 15 Q. Were you ever part of the engineering 16 or field erection division? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Okay. 19 The following was marked for Identification: 20 EXH. 35 color photocopy entitled 21 ''Dansville Breeze, Dansville, 22 New York, Thursday, 23 February 1, 1951." 24 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 25 Q. Let me show you another piece of that Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 116 Richard Johnson 1 article. This is Exhibit 35, and feel free to put 2 the -- put the article on top so you compare -- can 3 compare it , if need be. 4 A. Okay. 5 Q. You can see the Foster Wheeler is right 6 there. 7 A. Um-hum. 8 Q. And that's -- it says it's -- the main 9 office at this time was 165 Broadway. 10 That's New York City, right? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And it's got on Exhibit 35 -- I've 13 taken this little piece down here that's hard to 14 read and blown it up so we can read it, okay? 15 A. Yes, sir. 16 Q. And it says "Products manufactured by 17 Foster Wheeler Corporation," and it's got a whole 18 list of about 20 different products. 19 Do you see that? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And it's your understanding -- take a 22 minute and just look through that. 23 Are those the types of products that Foster 24 Wheeler manufactured back in the '50s? 25 A. That's a fair assessment. I'm not sure Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 117 Richard Johnson 1 about the pumps, but they -- they did purchase 2 pumps. I'm -- I'm not sure about that, but 3 everything else, yes, that's reasonable. 4 The following was marked for Identification: 5 EXH. 36 color photocopy. 6 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 7 Q. The next slide, it's very difficult to 8 read some of this print. You can see what I've 9 done. I've cut it out so it's a little bit easier 10 to read. 11 And this one talks about the main office is 12 at 165 New York City (sic), and then it says: 13 "14 district offices are" something 14 "throughout the United States. The corporation has 15 two manufacturing plants, one in Carteret, New 16 Jersey, and the other in Dansville, New Jersey 17 (sic)." 18 A. Dansville, New York. 19 Q. Excuse me, "Dansville, New York." 20 A. That's correct. 21 Q. Is that correct? Okay. 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Thank you. You can set that to the 24 side. 25 The following was marked for Identification: Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 118 Richard Johnson EXH. 37 color photocopy entitled "The Danville site." BY MR. SATTERLEY: Q. Another piece of the article is the 5 Dansville plant. Dansville -- it says a 60-acre 6 site. 7 "The Foster Wheeler plant in Dansville 8 occupies an area of approximately 60 acres and is 9 equipped with heavy machinery of all types, 10 including electric" something "head and railroad 11 steam" stuff -- "steam" -- I can't read that -- 12 "for handling fabricated equipment on an average 13 volume of 90 carloads of shipments per month." 14 A. That's correct. 15 Q. Is that accurate? 16 A. That's correct. 17 Q. Okay. And it was a 60- acre site, 18 this -- 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Okay. And that -- and that 's where you 21 worked, right? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. All right. 24 The following was marked for Identification: 25 EXH . 38 color photocopy entitled Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 119 Richard Johnson 1 "1928-29." 2 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 3 Q. Exhibit 38, and this is another piece 4 of the -- says: 5 "In 1928, Foster Wheeler built the" -- "the 6 first largest condenser in the world for the power 7 plant of Ohio Power Company." 8 Do you see that? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. "In 1929, Foster Wheeler built a forced 11 draft cooling tower for Western Electric Company in 12 Chicago, which has then" -- "which was then held as 13 the largest in the world, having a capacity of more 14 than 87 million gallons of water per day." 15 Is that accurate? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. The next Exhibit will be 39. 18 The following was marked for Identification: 19 EXH. 39 color photocopy entitled 20 "1946." 21 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 22 Q. "In 1946, Foster Wheeler had the 23 distinction of building the largest evaporator in 24 the world. Units of this type are installed in the 25 Ford Motor Company and the Pacific Gas & Electric Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 120 Richard Johnson 1 Company plants." 2 Is that accurate? 3 A. That's what it says. 4 Q. Is -- and is it -- to your knowledge, 5 is that accurate? 6 A. I don't know. 7 MR. BLOW: Form. 8 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 9 Q. Okay. You can set that to the side. 10 The following was marked for Identification: 11 EXH. 40 color photocopy entitled 12 "Dansville Breeze, Dansville, 13 New York, Thursday, 14 February 1, 1951." 15 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 16 Q. Exhibit 40, Danville Breeze, 17 February 1st, 1951: 18 "Navy Uses Products. Foster Wheeler had the 19 distinction of providing steam generating, 20 condensing, and distilling equipment of all kinds 21 to ensure the superiority of speed and 22 maneuverability with maximum fuel efficiency. 23 "The greatest distinction, however, is the 24 fact that approximately" -- "approximately 25 95 percent of steam-propelled combatant ships since Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 121 Richard Johnson 1 the commissioning of the Mahan" -- 2 A. Manhattan. 3 Q. Is that the Manhattan? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. That 's what M-A-H- A-N stands 6 for? 7 A. The name of the ship was the Manhattan 8 Q. Okay. "In 1934 had been equipped with 9 Foster Wheeler economizers and extended-surface 10 construction" -- "of" -- "of extended-surface 11 construction." 12 Is that accurate? 13 MR. BLOW: Objection. 14 THE WITNESS: Yes. 15 MR. BLOW: Objection toform. 16 THE WITNESS: When --when I -- when you say 17 it's accurate, I -- I can't verify the 95 percent, 18 but it was a large percentage. 19 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 20 Q. The large percentage is -- is -- is - 21 The following wasmarked forIdentification: 22 EXH. 41 color photocopy. 23 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 24 Q. Exhibit 41 from the --from the 25 Daily -- The Dansville Breeze as well. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 122 Richard Johnson 1 "Foster Wheeler has a tradition of 2 efficiency and skilled craftsmanship which results 3 in a product of highest quality. The contribution 4 which the corporation makes does not stop with 5 production, however. 6 "Foster Wheeler, drawing upon its years of 7 practical and theoretical knowledge in engineering, 8 is one of the foremost engineering designers in the 9 nation." 10 That's an accurate statement, right? 11 MR. BLOW: Objection, form. 12 THE WITNESS: If you're the publicity 13 manager for Foster Wheeler, it's an accurate 14 statement. 15 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 16 Q. I mean, Foster Wheeler promoted itself 17 as one of the foremost engineering designers in the 18 country, right? 19 A. Apparently, yes. 20 MR. BLOW: Just note my objection to the -21 the -- the blowups to the extent that the full 22 article is not available for -23 MR. SATTERLEY: It's -- it's available right 24 here. 25 MR. BLOW: Is that -- is that the full one Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 123 Richard Johnson 1 that you have there? 2 MR. SATTERLEY: Yes, this is the article 3 right there. You -- so -4 MR. BLOW: So you have -- so what you're 5 doing is you're just taking snippets from this 6 entire thing. 7 MR. SATTERLEY: Exactly. That's exact -- so 8 it's easier to read. I'm just trying to facilitate 9 for this gentleman so he can read it better. 10 MR. BLOW: Got you. Objection withdrawn. 11 MR. SATTERLEY: Okay? 12 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 13 Q. As a matter of fact, the next Exhibit, 14 42 -- leave that -- leave that there so we can just 15 verify so your counsel's -16 A. Okay. 17 The following was marked for Identification: 18 EXH. 42 color photocopy entitled 19 "Where Job Starts." 20 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 21 Q. You see this picture down here at the 22 bottom? 23 (Discussion off the record.) 24 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 25 Q. You see that picture right there? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 124 Richard Johnson 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. I've blown that picture up and put it 3 in Exhibit 42. Do you see that? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And it -- it -- it says: 6 "Where the job starts. Draftsmen are shown 7 in this general view of the drafting room at the 8 Dansville plant?" 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And do you -- it's hard to see, I know. 11 It's an old picture, but do you recall there being 12 a -- a drafting room? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And it says it's a part of the 15 engineering department. That's -- that's accurate, 16 right? 17 A. Yes, a small part. 18 Q. This -- yes. "This is where the 19 manufacturing process begins." 20 That 's true, right? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Well, what -- okay. Where's the 23 manufacturing -- 24 A. Oh, the manufacturing, I'm sorry. I 25 thought you said these were meaning design. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 125 Richard Johnson 1 Q. No, no, manufacturing. 2 A. Yes, it did begin. 3 Q. Okay. We're up to 43 now. 4 The following was marked for Identification: 5 EXH . 43 color photocopy entitled 6 "The Start of a Casting..." 7 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 8 Q. Another -- another photograph from 9 the -- from that is the casting, the start of a 10 casting. Do you know what that is? 11 A. Yes, I know the guy in the picture. 12 Q. Okay. Oliver Kurtz? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And he worked there at the -- at the 15 plant? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Did you know Louis Snodner (phonetic)? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And what about Harold Sieger? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. They all worked there at Dansville? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And this appears to be some instruction 24 in the plant apprentice program. 25 Do you know what this represents? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 126 Richard Johnson 1 A. No. I know they're in the foundry. 2 They had a foundry at Dansville at that time, and 3 they're talking about their apprentice -- if there 4 is such a thing in the -- in the foundry. 5 The following was marked for Identification: 6 EXH. 44 color photocopy. 7 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 8 Q. Exhibit 44. Do you know what this 9 picture represents? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. What does this picture represent? 12 A. That's the main office at Dansville. 13 Q. Did you work there? 14 A. Yes, for a time. 15 Q. And when you say "for a time," what 16 time did you work there? 17 A. Well, I worked there for a short time 18 in the -- in 1951 after I got out of the Army. I 19 was in their production planning department in the 20 corner of this building. 21 When I came back, we were out in the plant 22 in the metallurgical laboratory. 23 The following was marked for Identification: 24 EXH. 45 color photocopy. 25 BY MR. SATTERLEY: Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 127 Richard Johnson 1 Q. I'm going to show you 45 and ask you 2 if -- if that shows more of the plant down the -- 3 right here in the back here. 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And were -- is this the part of the 6 plant where you were in? 7 A. No, I was well beyond that. 8 Q. Well beyond that. 9 A. Yes, sir. 10 Q. Okay. By the way, do you have an 11 old - - any pictures yourself of Foster Wheeler, the 12 plant you worked in? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Okay. 15 A. There is a picture on the front of a 16 magazine somewheres where I was in the plant when 17 they took the picture, but I don't have any. 18 Q. Do you remember which magazine that 19 was? 20 A. You'll have to give me some time to 21 think about it. 22 Q. That's okay. 23 The following was marked for Identification: 24 EXH. 46 color photocopy. 25 BY MR. SATTERLEY: Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 128 Richard Johnson 1 Q. We'll come back to that after lunch. 2 46. Is that a picture of a -- a welcoming 3 sign to the Dansville, New York facility? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. The -- the Dansville plant was an 6 approximately 250-square-foot facility in the 7 northwest corner of Danville, correct? Dansville. 8 A. Approximately what? 2 -- 9 Q. 250,000 square foot. 10 A. I don't know the square footage, but 11 yes, that's where it was located, and it was large. 12 Q. Did the complex consist mainly of 13 several long, interconnected buildings that housed 14 a steel fabricating shop, a foundry, two tube 15 shops, and a machine shop? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And were there large metal vessels in 18 the facility? 19 A. For the plant, there were vessels of a 20 significant size, but they wouldn't call them 21 large. The large vessels were in Carteret, New 22 Jersey, and elsewhere. 23 But there were fair-size vessels, if -- if 24 we define a vessel as a header with tubes going 25 into it, yes. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 129 Richard Johnson 1 Q. A -- a -- the type of -- type of 2 product -- boiler product that Foster Wheeler made 3 out of -- or made and sold to Big Rivers, do you 4 know whether that came from Dansville or from some 5 other facility? 6 A. I don't know. That's not in my purvey. 7 Q. Okay. That's fine. 8 The following was marked for Identification: 9 EXH. 47 color photocopy of a New 10 York Times article. 11 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 12 Q. Exhibit 47 is a New York Times article 13 regarding Foster Wheeler, and it says: 14 "Vice Admiral E.W. Mills, Retired, Elected 15 Vice President, Director of Foster Wheeler." 16 And that's a picture of him there, correct? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And it says: 19 "Admiral Mills recently retired from the 20 Navy. He brings to the corporation a wealth of 21 administrative and technical experience." 22 A. Yes, I read that. 23 The following was marked for Identification: 24 EXH. 48 two-page document entitled 25 "Decipherment." Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 130 Richard Johnson 1 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 2 Q. 48. This is a March 24th, 1944 3 memorandum from E.W. Mills, the assistant chief of 4 bureau, to the Bureau of Medicine and Surgery. The 5 subject: "Survey of respiratory diseases." 6 I hand you Exhibit 48 and ask you: Have you 7 ever seen that in the past? 8 A. I may have. 9 Q. And do you agree that the E.W. Mills, 10 the assistant chief of bureau, is the same E.W. 11 Mills that went to work at Foster Wheeler in 1950? 12 A. It appears to be him, yes. 13 Q. You can set it -- that Exhibit to the 14 side, and we're up to 49 now, I think. 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Okay. 17 The following was marked for Identification: 18 EXH. 49 two-page document dated 19 December 19, 1944. 20 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 21 Q. I've got an extra copy of this one for 22 your lawyer. I apologize, I didn't have an extra 23 copy for that last one. 24 This one is a 1944 -- December the 19th, 25 1944, by W.C. Dreessen, and it is regarding Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 131 Richard Johnson 1 asbestos from Amosite pipe covering at Bath Iron 2 Works. 3 Have you seen this in the past? 4 A. I'm not familiar with this. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. And the whole letter isn't here that -7 that I see or -- this is only part of it. 8 Q. Oh, okay. So you've seen this in the 9 past, and you recognize that -10 A. No. No, I -- I just don't see the 11 whole thing here. 12 Q. Okay. So you believe that there's more 13 to this than -- than these two pages? 14 A. I don't know. It appears there would 15 be -- well, no. It's an article; is that correct? 16 Q. It's an investigation into the asbestos 17 pipe covering at Bath Iron Works in December -18 December 19th, 1944. 19 A. And I don't see who -- who wrote it. 20 Q. It says right there "By W.C. Dreessen, 21 Surgeon, U. S. Public" -22 A. Oh, down here. Okay. 23 Q. -- "Health Service, Bethesda, 24 Maryland." 25 A. I see. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 132 Richard Johnson 1 Q. And then there's Fleischer, right? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And then -- Fleischer's identified 4 there. Do you see that? 5 A. Yes, I do. 6 Q. And it's -- on the second page, it 7 says -- under the medical, it has a section that 8 I've underlined there: 9 "All of the 38 films were reviewed, and 12 10 of these patients showed significant x-ray changes 11 consistent with exposure to dusty environment." 12 Do you see that? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. "History and physical examined by 15 Dr. Fuller indicated that all 38 of the patients' 16 respiratory symptoms and physical signs were 17 minimal. On x-ray interpretation, these 38 18 patients could be divided into four groups." 19 And then it's got four -- one, two, three, 20 four. It's got number 1, "The two older workers 21 referred to " -- I can't -- I can't read. 22 A. "Appearance." Or -- 23 Q. "The appearance" -- 24 A. "Appearance of." 25 Q. "The appearance of the chest x-rays was Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 133 Richard Johnson 1 consistent with the diagnosis of well-established 2 asbestosis. These plates also showed typical" -3 "signs typical of advanced age, such as 4 cardiovascular changes." 5 Number 2, "A group of four workers shows 6 exposure was from two and a half to four years 7 whose chest x-ray appearances were consistent with 8 the diagnosis of asbestosis." 9 Do you see that? 10 A. Yes, sir. 11 MR. BLOW: Just note my objection. The 12 document speaks -- well, continuing objection that 13 these documents speak for themselves. 14 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 15 Q. And is it your testimony you've never 16 been presented with this in any trial testimony or 17 deposition? 18 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 19 THE WITNESS: I don't recall seeing this. 20 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 21 Q. Let's go to the next Exhibit. 22 The following was marked for Identification: 23 EXH. 50 two-page document dated 24 January 31, 1945. 25 BY MR. SATTERLEY: Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 134 Richard Johnson 1 Q. Exhibit 50, and I've got an extra copy 2 here. This is dated January 31st, 1945, and this 3 is from Philip Drinker. 4 See that "Philip Drinker" is highlighted on 5 the second page? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And at the bottom, it's carbon copy 8 Admiral Mills, Dr. Fleischer, and some other people 9 at the bottom. Do you see that? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And this is addressed to Captain Thomas 12 Carter at the Bureau of Medicine and Surgery, 13 United States Navy, correct? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And you've seen this in the past, 16 correct? 17 A. I may have. 18 Q. Well, the -- the fourth paragraph down, 19 it says "I suggested to Admiral Mills it would be 20 very desirable for the Navy to" -- what's that word 21 say? 22 A. I can't read it either. 23 Q. "Man handling the preparation of pipe 24 covering" - - "examine." 25 "To examine man handling the preparation of Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 135 Richard Johnson 1 pipe coverings and their installation in at least 2 two Navy yards and two Navy contract yards." 3 Do you see that? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. The last, I think it may be -- well 6 don't know if it's the last one. Yes, it will 7 be -- I think it's going to be the last -8 A. Was this before the Drinker -9 Q. Yes. 10 A. -- report? 11 Q. You see this is January. Remember, 12 that was September 21st. 13 A. Sure. Later they proved it wasn't 14 harm -- dangerous. 15 Q. Well, we'll get to that in a little 16 bit. 17 A. Oh, okay. 18 Q. Because they -- because they -- the 19 conclusions were based upon -- there's -- let's 20 back to Exhibit 6 here. 21 See it's September 21st, 1945? 22 A. Um-hum. 23 Q. And -- and you -- and you know that 24 their conclusions were based upon only if there 25 certain industrial hygiene controls in place. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 136 Richard Johnson 1 MR . BLOW: Form. 2 THE WITNESS: I'd have to read the whole 3 thing to recall that. 4 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. I just know what the conclusions were. 7 Q. Conclusion number 4, I understand 8 what -- that -- that they had three people who were 9 sick, and they concluded that it was a safe 10 operation , right? 11 A. And they concluded that "The incidence 12 of asbestos was .29 percent or three cases out of a 13 thousand. In view of the nature of shipyard pipe 14 covering work, this low incidence is not 15 surprising." 16 Q. Well, the three people -- the three 17 people who were sick were the people -- the -18 the -- were in the folks that worked there the 19 longest, right? 20 A. Out of a thousand people, yes. 21 Q. Okay. And -- and they didn't include 22 the Bath Iron Works in the study, right? 23 A. I don't know. 24 Q. Well -25 A. I don't recall. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 137 Richard Johnson 1 Q. 2 look. You've seen -- well, let's -- let's 3 Well, take a look at the -- do you know if 4 Bath Iron Works was included in there? 5 A. No, I don't. 6 Q. So if -- if there was -- Bath Iron 7 Works had 38 people. If there was 12 that had 8 signs of - - of -- of asbestos disease or dusty 9 films, that wasn't included in that article, right? 10 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 11 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 12 The following was marked for Identification: 13 EXH . 51 two-page document dated 21 14 September 1945. 15 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 16 Q. Let me show you another memorandum, 17 Exhibit 51 . I showed you a piece of this earlier. 18 It's the same -- same date, September 21st, 1945, 19 the same date that it was received for publication. 20 See at the bottom, it says -- number 6 says 21 "Received for publication September 21st, 1945," 22 right? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. The same day Admiral Mills, the Bureau 25 of Ships, writes to Philip Drinker. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 138 Richard Johnson 1 Do you see that? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And it's two copies of the Health 4 Survey of Pipe Covering Operations in Constructing 5 Naval Vessels. Do you see that? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And it's signed by Philip Drinker, 8 right? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. If you flip over to the second page, "A 11 Health Survey of Pipe Covering Operations in 12 Constructing Naval Vessels." 13 Do you see that? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. All right. And it says: 16 "An industrial health inspection of 17 important Navy contract yard, the Bath Iron Works 18 of Bath, Maine, indicate that dustiness from 19 miscellaneous pipe-covering operations was 20 considerable, and a few of the employees had what 21 appeared to be asbestosis. This is a well-known 22 industrial disease caused by only one thing, 23 prolonged breathing of asbestos dust." 24 Do you see that? 25 A. Yes. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 139 Richard Johnson 1 Q. Now, in the actual published paper, the 2 first sentence doesn't say anything about Bath -- 3 Bath Iron Works, does it? 4 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 5 THE WITNESS: They mention two government 6 Navy yards. I don't know where that would -- 7 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 8 Q. Okay. 9 A. A and B. That might have been one of 10 them. I don't know. 11 Q. So what was received for publication on 12 September 21st, the first few sentences aren't the 13 first few sentences in what Admiral Mills wrote to 14 Philip Drinker on the same day. 15 MR. BLOW: Form. 16 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 17 Q. True? 18 A. That's true. 19 Q. Okay. 20 A. From what I'm reading. 21 Q. All right. You can set that Exhibit to 22 the side. 23 In your analysis of what Foster Wheeler knew 24 about asbestos, did you go back to figure out what 25 was published in the New York Times in the '40s or Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 140 Richard Johnson 1 '50s? 2 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 3 THE WITNESS: No. 4 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 5 Q. Let's see. Foster Wheeler -- in 6 addition to designing and constructing power 7 plants, they also designed oil refineries, correct? 8 A. Portions of oil refineries, yes. 9 Q. And included in the oil refineries 10 would be asbestos conduit, correct? 11 A. No. 12 MR. BLOW: Form. 13 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. 14 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 15 Q. This came from the Heat Engineering, 16 and let me mark this as 52. 17 The following was marked for Identification: 18 EXH. 52(A) color photocopy. 19 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 20 Q. And I've got an extra copy for your 21 lawyer. Oh, thank you. 22 This is "On stream in Iraq, new 25,000-ton- 23 per-year lube oil plant designed and constructed by 24 Foster Wheeler." 25 Do you see that? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 141 Richard Johnson 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And at the bottom, it says: 3 "The contract for the design and 4 construction of the plant was let in April 1955 to 5 Foster Wheeler, Limited, London generator." 6 Do you see that? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And at the very last sentence, it says: 9 "Altogether, over 35 miles of" -10 A. 13. 11 Q. The last sentence? I thought it says 12 "over 35." 13 A. It's 13 on mine. 14 Q. Pardon? 15 A. It says 13. 16 Q. Oh, no, no, no, no, I apologize. I 17 will go on to the beginning of the sentence. 18 You're look -- you're looking at what's 19 highlighted . 20 A. Okay. 21 Q. Let's go to the very beginning of the 22 sentence: 23 "Altogether over 35 miles" -24 A. Okay. 25 Q. -- "of overground and underground cable Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 142 Richard Johnson 1 for lighting and power purposes have been run, 2 together with some 13 miles of steel and asbestos 3 conduit." 4 A. That's what it says. 5 Q. Do you know if Foster Wheeler, in 6 the -- in the '50s, did any evaluation of asbestos 7 conduit -- 8 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 9 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 10 Q. -- for health -- for health purposes? 11 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 12 THE WITNESS: No. 13 This was buried in the ground, right? 14 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 15 Q. I have no idea. Do you know? 16 A. It says "underground." Well, they run 17 the cables through the underground conduits. 18 I'm sorry. 19 The following was marked for Identification: 20 EXH . 52(B) Heat Engineering, January 21 and February 1966. 22 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 23 Q. Do you remember the Iraq project? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Exhibit 52 is another Heat Engineering. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 143 Richard Johnson 1 This is just an article out of Heat Engineering, a 2 copy for your lawyer there. 3 This is January and February 1966, and 4 you -- you're -- you should be familiar with this 5 one. 6 A. Well, a brilliant person wrote it. 7 Q. A brilliant person, very brilliant 8 person. This is written by you, right? 9 A. That's the magazine I was trying to 10 think of. 11 Q. Exactly. And this is written by you, 12 correct? 13 A. That's correct. 14 Q. And it says "Richard C. Johnson, Foster 15 Wheeler," and this was in Heat Engineering in 1966, 16 right? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And this talks a lot about insulation 19 and -- and sprayed insulation, correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. It's got pictures of -- of individuals 22 spraying insulation, right? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And this picture on -- the picture -25 turn back to the picture of the guy spraying Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 144 Richard Johnson 1 insulation. 2 He's got a mask on, does he not? 3 A. That's me. 4 Q. That's you? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And you've got a mask on. 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And you -- you were wearing the mask 9 because you knew that this -- the asbestos 10 insulation being sprayed, if you breathe it, that 11 could be bad. 12 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 13 THE WITNESS: No, I didn't know that. I 14 wore the mask because it was a noxious environment 15 in the area. It might have been calcium oxide, for 16 all I know. 17 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 18 Q. So nobody at the corporation, Foster 19 Wheeler Corporation, when they had you spraying 20 asbestos -- and that's what you're doing, spraying 21 asbestos, right? 22 A. I'm spraying an asbestos-containing 23 product, yes. 24 Q. And nobody at Foster Wheeler 25 Corporation ever told you that spraying asbestos or Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 145 Richard Johnson 1 breathing asbestos was bad for your health back in 2 19 -- in this time frame. 3 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 4 THE WITNESS: I knew that excessive amounts 5 of asbestos were harmful. There were no excessive 6 amounts of harmful materials in this environment. 7 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 8 Q. And you said you knew excessive amounts 9 of asbestos was harmful since college. You said 10 that, right? 11 A. That's correct. 12 Q. And who -- what class did you take in 13 college that taught you that? 14 A. Mineralogy. 15 Q. Okay. And what -- where did you go to 16 college? 17 A. New York State College of Ceramics. 18 Q. And the mineralogy class that you took, 19 what year would have that been? 20 A. 1946 to '50. 21 Q. Okay. So you took mineralogy every 22 year? Those -23 A. No, took mineralogy, geology -24 Q. Okay. 25 A. -- and many associated courses. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 146 Richard Johnson 1 Q. So from 1946 to 1950 in mineralogy, 2 they taught you that breathing asbestos was bad for 3 you. 4 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 5 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 6 Q. Just depends on how much. 7 MR. BLOW: Form. 8 THE WITNESS: They taught me that breathing 9 many, many materials, including silica, were 10 harmful in excessive amounts, such as miners and 11 textile workers. 12 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 13 Q. And they -14 A. Period. 15 Q. And they -- they -- they said that you 16 had to figure out whether or not you're being -17 breathing excessive amounts, did they not? 18 A. No, they did not. They said that the 19 excessive amounts were in mines and textile plants. 20 Q. That's what somebody told you in -- in 21 undergraduate school. 22 A. That's correct. 23 Q. Okay. Do you remember the professor 24 that told you that? 25 A. Freschette, F-R-E-S-C-H-E-T-T-E. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 147 Richard Johnson 1 Q. And first name? 2 A. Van Derk, V-A-N-D-E -- capital D-E-R-K. 3 Q. Now -- and when you're spraying this -4 spraying this on Exhibit 53 (sic), this asbestos, 5 were you wearing any monitoring devices to monitor 6 what levels of asbestos was in the environment? 7 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 8 THE WITNESS: No. 9 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 10 Q. Do you recall at any point in time in 11 the ' 60s when anybody else was spraying asbestos, 12 they -- whether they were wearing a monitoring 13 device at all? 14 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 15 THE WITNESS: I don't even know what you 16 mean by "monitoring device," sir. 17 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 18 Q. Okay. 19 A. But no one was wearing a device. 20 Q. Okay. Did you ever see anybody at 21 Foster Wheeler ever around any of the sprayed 22 African -- it says it's sprayed African asbestos. 23 That s one of the types, right? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Did you ever see anybody at Foster Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 148 Richard Johnson 1 Wheeler wearing any type of monitoring or measuring 2 devices when this activity was ongoing? 3 A. Yes. 4 MR . BLOW: Objection to form. 5 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 6 Q. Pardon? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Okay. And who was that that was 9 wearing the device? 10 A. That's when it was removed. 11 Q. Who was wearing the device? 12 A. Who was wearing the device? 13 Q. Yes, sir. 14 A. Everybody working in an enclosed area 15 was wearing the device when they removed this 16 material from a boiler at Dansville. 17 Q. And what's the earliest you recall 18 somebody at Foster Wheeler wearing a device when 19 this material was being removed? 20 A. It was in the '70s. 21 Q. Okay. I know you got to take -- take 22 your wife -- or pick up your wife and take her 23 somewhere , so why don't we go and break early. 24 Is that going to give you plenty of time? 25 A. Yes, I can be back by 1:30. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 149 Richard Johnson 1 Q. Okay. All right. So why don't we -- 2 A. You go ahead. 3 Q. Well, it's 12:38. Why don't we plan on 4 coming back by 1:30, and if we come back at 1:30, 5 I'll be out of here by 2:30. I expect I'll be 6 finished asking questions, but I don't know -- 7 A. I hope so. 8 Q. What's that? 9 A. I'm sorry, no. 10 Q. I -- I have -- I think I have less an 11 hour left. 12 One thing before we take a break. 13 MR. SATTERLEY: Counsel, I have all these 14 annual reports, and I was going to go through them. 15 If I can get a stipulation that the annual 16 reports -- Foster Wheeler annual reports are 17 authentic and I don't have to go through them with 18 him, that's going to save a lot of time. 19 And I can give them to you at lunchtime. 20 You can look at them. 21 MR. BLOW: Yes, let me take a look at them 22 at lunchtime. I'm sure we'll be - 23 MR. SATTERLEY: All right. Let -- let's go 24 off the video record. Let's go off the 25 stenographic record. Let's reconvene at 1:30. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 150 Richard Johnson 1 (A recess was then taken at 1239.) 2 The following were marked for Identification: 3 EXH. 53-72 annual reports, 1951 through 4 1970. 5 (On the record at 1346.) 6 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 7 Q. Sir, over the lunch break, your lawyer 8 and myself, we talked about these annual reports. 9 We've premarked Exhibits 53 to 72, annual reports 10 from 1951 to 1970. 11 MR. SATTERLEY: And I just wanted a 12 stipulation that you don't have an objection to the 13 authenticity -- not admissibility but 14 authenticity -- of these documents. 15 MR. BLOW: That's correct. 16 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 17 Q. Okay. My questions as it relates to 18 these documents, sir -- you have not gone through 19 the annual reports to figure out what any 20 particular individual did or knew anything about 21 asbestos, did you? 22 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 23 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 24 Q. Go ahead. 25 A. No, I have not. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 151 Richard Johnson 1 Q. All right. For -- for example, if I 2 could just borrow this, I put a couple stickies on, 3 let's see, this -- this one right here, Exhibit 60. 4 This is a 1958 annual report, and -- and 5 I've highlighted a whole bunch of directors, and 6 there's a whole bunch of officers there. 7 You don't know what any of these individuals 8 knew about asbestos, right? 9 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 10 THE WITNESS: That's -11 MR. BLOW: Lacks foundation. 12 THE WITNESS: That's correct. 13 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 14 Q. And that would be the same -- that 15 would be true if I went through every single one of 16 these annual reports name by name, right? 17 MR. BLOW: Same objections. 18 THE WITNESS: Yes, I hesitate to say a flat 19 answer, because, for instance, Mills is on there, 20 and you've showed me evidence or showed me 21 documents that Mills was given, but -22 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 23 Q. Sure, but -24 A. But reading these, I have no -25 Q. Okay. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 152 Richard Johnson 1 A. -- relationship to -2 Q. We'll set those to the side, then. You 3 can set them right on that stack there. 4 If you could hand me those Exhibits over 5 there back again, because I don't want to lose any 6 of these Exhibits here. Thank you. 7 The Fleischer-Drinker Report we might -- we 8 might come back to in a little bit. 9 The following was marked for Identification: 10 EXH. 73 Foster Wheeler Insulation 11 Standard Catalogue. 12 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 13 Q. Exhibit 73 -- and I apologize, I don't 14 have extra copies. I just printed it out at lunch. 15 This is the -- we talked about the 16 insulation standards catalog. 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. This is a copy of that, correct? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And you -- we mentioned earlier - 21 well, it's got the Foster Wheeler logo on it, 22 correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Okay. All right. And when -- I got 25 confused earlier, and I apologize. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 153 Richard Johnson 1 When you were the ceramic engineer early in 2 your career in the '60s, did you specifically study 3 insulation? 4 A. Some I did. 5 Q. Okay. 6 A. I reviewed for the -- checked the 7 properties. 8 Q. Okay. And -- and did you work -- you 9 said that you were the Foster Wheeler 10 representative on the ASTM, correct? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And for how many years were you the 13 Foster Wheeler representative on the American 14 Society of Testing Materials? 15 A. Approximately 20. 16 Q. And what -- what -- which years is 17 that? 18 A. In the '60s, I became a member, I 19 believe, and I was until I retired in the '90s. 20 Q. Okay. And your job with the American 21 Society of Testing Materials, would that have had 22 you learn or -- or be involved with insulation? 23 Not asbestos. Insulation material. 24 A. Yes, sir. 25 Q. Okay. And -- and in -- in your job as Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 154 Richard Johnson 1 the Foster Wheeler representative for the American 2 Society of Testing Materials, did you examine any 3 of the toxic properties of insulation? 4 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 5 THE WITNESS: No, I did not. 6 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 7 Q. Are you familiar with -- you can set 8 that Exhibit on the stack there. We're finished 9 with that for the time being. 10 Are you familiar with any of the Foster 11 Wheeler publications wherein discussions of 12 insulation and its toxicity is a factor to be 13 considered? 14 MR. BLOW: Form. 15 THE WITNESS: A Foster Wheeler -16 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 17 Q. Sure. 18 A. -- document or -19 Q. Written by a Foster Wheeler engineer 20 wherein when you're selecting insulation, you 21 should consider its toxicity. 22 A. Well, I have difficulty with the word 23 "toxicity," but I, of course, was involved with 24 insulation products throughout most of my career. 25 But no, we did not -- Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 155 Richard Johnson 1 Q. You did not consider toxicity as an 2 issue in deciding which insulation to utilize in 3 the '60s and early '70s. 4 MR. BLOW: Form. 5 THE WITNESS: Well, toxicity is always an 6 issue. 7 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 8 Q. Okay. Let me show you Exhibit 74. 9 The following was marked for Identification: 10 EXH . 74 patent entitled "Wall 11 Construction for Heated 12 Surfaces, April 2, 1968." 13 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 14 Q. And I'm sure you're going to be 15 familiar with this one. Hand your lawyer a copy of 16 this. 17 This is a patent that you -- you wrote -- or 18 you submitted, I should say, with John M. Connell, 19 correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And who is John M. Connell? 22 A. He was an engineer in the equipment 23 division. 24 Q. And this is a -- a -- a patent that was 25 issued -- or patented on April the 2nd, 1968, Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 156 Richard Johnson 1 correct? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And this specifically deals with 4 insulated wall construction for heated surfaces. 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And the patent was assigned to the 7 Foster Wheeler Corporation, New York, New York, 8 correct? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. And within this patent, there is 11 discussions of insulation materials, correct? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Including a spray-on -- an asbestos 14 spray, correct? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And -- and there's reference to Limpet, 17 a Limpet material. Are you familiar with what -18 what Limpet is? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And what is Limpet? 21 A. Well, Limpet was a -- an asbestos -- an 22 asbestos sprayable product. Was one of the first 23 ever utilized. It was in England, and we -- that 24 was the first sprayed asbestos product that I saw. 25 Q. And did that Limpet material -- or in Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 157 Richard Johnson 1 your patent, you talk about African Amosite 2 asbestos fibers. 3 Is that the -- is that a type of fiber that 4 was in the Limpet product? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Did you utilize the Limpet product 7 yourself? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. And when you utilized the Limpet 10 product, I think -- was -- was that a picture of 11 you utilizing the spray that -12 A. That was -- sorry. 13 Q. -- back in the -- that other Exhibit we 14 looked at earlier? 15 MR. BLOW: Form. 16 THE WITNESS: That was a sprayed product. I 17 don' t know -- remember whether it was Limpet or 18 Asbestospray. It was one or the other. 19 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 20 Q. Did -- did -- after you patented this 21 and -- and it was assigned to Foster Wheeler, 22 did -- did Foster Wheeler begin to insulate wall 23 construction on heated surfaces with this material? 24 A. I believe we had already started to use 25 it. It takes a couple, three years for this patent Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 158 Richard Johnson 1 to issue. 2 Q. Sure. 3 A. We had already started to use it and 4 probably had discontinued it by certainly '68. 5 Q. And why was it discontinued? 6 A. Because -7 MR. BLOW: Form. 8 THE WITNESS: -- there were -- there were 9 better products available. 10 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 11 Q. And were those better products -- what 12 were those better products that were available? 13 A. Mineral wool blankets, fiberglass 14 blocks, fiberglass blankets. We replaced it 15 because of a change in the design of the water 16 walls in the -- the steam generators. 17 Q. The material that replaced this 18 asbestos-spray Amosite asbestos was a nonasbestos 19 material, correct? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Okay. 22 A. There was an interim period where there 23 also was a sprayed mineral wool -24 Q. Okay. Do you -25 A. -- which was unacceptable, and sprayed Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 159 Richard Johnson 1 ceramic fiber, which was unacceptable. 2 Q. Do you have a -- a contemporaneous 3 memorandum that explains -- or would set forth the 4 exact date in which the spray was discontinued? 5 A. I can find that out. 6 Q. Okay. But as you sit here today, do 7 you know the exact date? 8 A. Not the exact date, no. 9 Q. The patent didn't issue until '68, 10 right? 11 A. Right. 12 Q. And you -- do you think it -- how long 13 after the patent was issued was the asbestos 14 Amosite spray discontinued? 15 A. My best recollection -- recollection is 16 that before the patent issued, we had already 17 discontinued the use of Limpet and Asbestospray. 18 Q. Did -- did you develop and patent a new 19 nonasbestos insulation for this wall material? 20 MR. BLOW: Form. 21 THE WITNESS: We did not patent it, no, but 22 we utilized one. We accepted one. 23 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 24 Q. Okay. You can set that Exhibit to the 25 side. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 160 Richard Johnson 1 The following was marked for Identification: 2 EXH. 75 one-page document entitled 3 "The Growing Years 4 1920-1970." 5 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 6 Q. The next document here is Exhibit 75, 7 and it is -- I've got a copy for your lawyer. 8 There you go. 9 This is from the Heat Engineering from 1970, 10 and it's called "The Growing Years, 1920 to 1970," 11 and it says: 12 "Fifty years ago, the London office of Power 13 Specialty, Limited, a Foster Wheeler forerunner 14 company, occupied four small rooms over a paint 15 store, but by 1927 when the American company was 16 merged with Wheeler Condenser to form Foster 17 Wheeler, the London operation had moved to far more 18 impressive quarters at Aldwych Hot" -- "House" -19 A. Aldwych. 20 Q. -- "Aldwych House, an address it used 21 for the following 25 years." 22 Was that your understanding of the 23 formation -- the beginning of Foster Wheeler? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And over in the right-hand column, it Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 161 Richard Johnson 1 says: 2 "Foster Wheeler, Limited, now ranked in the 3 forefront of European industry, engaged in major 4 projects throughout the world. The company aided 5 substantially in the development of such 6 technological advances as the concept of integrated 7 facility, direct computerized control of operation, 8 catalytic cracking, hydrogen treating, 9 hydro-cracking, and the design and fabrication of 10 units far beyond pre-war capacity. 11 "Realizing its present-day responsibility, 12 Foster Wheeler, Limited is today involved in the 13 problems of air, water, and even sound pollution 14 with a view towards meeting and exceeding the 15 coming era of stringent regulation." 16 Did I read that correctly? 17 A. Yes, sir. 18 Q. And was it your understanding Foster 19 Wheeler -- both Foster Wheeler and Foster Wheeler, 20 Limited was working to solve problems related to 21 air, water, and sound pollution? 22 A. I would point out that this Foster 23 Wheeler, Limited is the British corporation, I 24 believe. We're talking about the Foster Wheeler, 25 Limited in London -- Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 162 Richard Johnson 1 Q. Okay. 2 A. -- not the overall corporation. 3 Q. But my question is did Foster Wheeler 4 Corporation also involve itself in trying to solve 5 problems of air, water, and sound pollution. 6 MR. BLOW: Form. 7 THE WITNESS: Very generally. There were 8 many, many problems in those areas that they didn't 9 try to solve. For instance, sound pollution only 10 related to one thing. 11 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 12 Q. You can set that Exhibit to the side. 13 I've got another Exhibit here. 14 The following was marked for Identification: 15 EXH. 76 Corporate Policy Letter 16 Issued Feb. 1983, Revised May 17 1983. 18 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 19 Q. This is Exhibit 76, and this is May of 20 1983. This is for your lawyer over there. 21 This is a corporate policy letter. It's a 22 three-page letter that was issued in February of 23 '83 and revised in May of '83, and the subject is 24 "Asbestos." 25 And first I just want to verify: Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 163 Richard Johnson 1 You recognize this as a policy the company 2 reviewed and issued as formal corporate policy on 3 asbestos, correct? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. And it says: 6 "It has become apparent that asbestos fibers 7 may endanger the health of persons working with or 8 exposed to asbestos and asbestos-containing 9 products. Insurance against liability from the use 10 of" -- "of or exposure to asbestos has become 11 impossible to obtain." 12 Do you see that? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Did -- was it your understanding -15 were you issued -- did you receive this in '83? 16 A. I have seen this before at depositions. 17 I don't remember it specifically coming across my 18 desk. 19 These would have been delivered to corporate 20 department managers. I wasn't included. I don't 21 recall seeing it except in deposition for many 22 years. 23 Q. But there's no question this is a 24 Foster Wheeler corporate policy letter, correct? 25 A. That's correct. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 164 Richard Johnson 1 Q. Okay. And it says: 2 "For the safety of employees and others and 3 for the protection against future liabilities, it 4 shall be the policy of Foster Wheeler Corporation 5 and its subsidiaries not to install, remove, or 6 otherwise handle, directly or by subcontract, 7 asbestos or any asbestos-containing product on any 8 project and not to incorporate asbestos or any 9 asbestos-containing product in any product to be 10 sold by the corporation or any of its 11 subsidiaries." 12 That was the policy, correct? 13 A. Yes, sir. 14 Q. And my question is: Prior to this 15 issue in 1983, do you recall there ever being 16 another corporate letter policy prior to this time 17 frame that had the specific -- this specific 18 language? 19 A. This specific language? 20 Q. Sure. 21 A. Where they forbid it entirely? 22 Q. For -- forbid it entirely. 23 A. No, I do not. 24 Q. Okay. Because this is the earliest -25 I've looked through a ton of documents and a lot of Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 165 Richard Johnson 1 your depositions, and this is the earliest I could 2 see that the corporation forbid it entirely. 3 Correct? 4 A. That's correct. 5 Q. Over on the second page, ithas safety 6 precautions, and I want to specifically look at 7 Paragraph D: 8 "The manager of construction safety services 9 will establish a system of recordkeeping so that, 10 with respect to each project, there will be 11 permanent record." 12 And then it's got A, B, C, D , E, F . Do you 13 see that? 14 A. Yes, sir. 15 Q. "Efforts should be main " -- " should be 16 made" -- well -- oh. 17 F says: "Anything else that might be 18 relevant if a claim arises at some later date." 19 Do you see that? 20 A. "Later date"? Is that in the same D 21 paragraph ? 22 Q. No, this is F. Yes, D -- D - - D -23 Section D , Subsection F. 24 A. Oh, the next page. Yes , I see that. 25 Q. "Anything else that might be relevant Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 166 Richard Johnson 1 if a claim arises at some later date." 2 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 3 THE WITNESS: What section is that? The -4 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 5 Q. No, no, I apologize. Go back to -- go 6 back to D right here, and then if you go -7 A. Oh. 8 Q. See it says "A, the safety measure 9 taken, the conditions encountered on a daily 10 basis." 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Then we go down to F. It says: 13 "Anything else that might be relevant if a 14 claim arises at some later date." 15 A. Yes, sir, I see that. 16 Q. "Efforts should be made to obtain job 17 histories from employees showing previous exposure 18 to asbestos." 19 Do you know the reason why this policy was 20 adopted? 21 A. Sure. There were very stringent OSHA 22 regulations that kept lowering the permissible 23 levels of asbestos. They finally decided let's not 24 handle asbestos at all. 25 Q. The next says: Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 167 Richard Johnson 1 "The foregoing records shall be kept for at 2 least 50 years in a way that will permit retrieval 3 in a distant" -- "in the distant future and will 4 guard against destruction and loss." 5 Do you see that? 6 A. Yes, sir. 7 Q. Have you seen any records that have 8 been maintained pursuant to this corporate policy 9 about asbestos? 10 A. No. 11 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 12 THE WITNESS: I have not seen them. 13 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 14 Q. And then they have a separate policy on 15 the last page. Well, first of all, it says: 16 "The manager of construction services shall 17 report periodically to the management council." 18 Do you know who the management council was? 19 A. I assume those were the people who were 20 in the top management category. 21 Q. You weren't a part of the -- 22 A. I can't name them. 23 Q. Sure. You weren't a part of the 24 management council, were you? 25 A. No, sir. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 168 Richard Johnson 1 Q. Okay. And it says: 2 "With respect to operations outside of the 3 United States and Canada in connection with repair, 4 maintenance, and revamp work only, operating 5 entities in the Foster Wheeler group may bid on and 6 enter into contracts for work which, incidental to 7 the overall project, involve removal of previously 8 installed asbestos-containing materials." 9 Do you see that? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. So the policy was in the United States, 12 because of the problems with regulations, Foster 13 Wheeler wasn't going to be involved with asbestos 14 at all starting in 1983, correct? 15 MR. BLOW: Form. 16 THE WITNESS: They state they're not going 17 to be. 18 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 19 Q. Okay. But in -- but it permitted 20 contracts outside of the United States for people 21 in Foster Wheeler's to still have involvement with 22 asbestos. 23 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 24 THE WITNESS: Well, you didn't read the 25 whole thing, sir. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 169 Richard Johnson 1 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 2 Q. Okay. 3 A. "For the project adopts procedures 4 approved by the management council similar to those 5 outlined here." 6 So that I assume they would have had to 7 approve -8 Q. Okay. 9 A. -- whatever they did. 10 Q. All right. So the management council 11 would have to approve. 12 A. I think so. 13 Q. Two different -- two different 14 policies, one for the United States and Canada 15 and -- and then another one for foreign projects. 16 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 17 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure. 18 MR. BLOW: Misstates testimony. 19 The following was marked for Identification: 20 EXH. 77 memo dated July 15, 1983. 21 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 22 Q. Let me show you Exhibit 77. This is a 23 couple months later. Copy for your lawyer there. 24 This is July 15th, 1983, and this is on 25 Foster Wheeler letterhead, correct? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 170 Richard Johnson 1 A. Yes, sir. 2 Q. And this is to all divisions, 3 department managers, chief executive officer of 4 subsidiary company. 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And at this point in time in '83, were 7 you a department manager? 8 A. I was the head of ceramic services. I 9 don't know how you would label that. There were 10 only two of us. 11 Q. And would have you received this back 12 at the time ? 13 A. I doubt it. I -- I've seen this 14 before, of course, but I -- I don't recall 15 receiving it at the time. 16 Q. And this is on the letterhead and 17 signed off by Harold E. Kennedy? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And he was a vice-president of Foster 20 Wheeler at this time frame? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And he had the authority to speak for 23 the corporation, true? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. It says: "Corporate policy letter 34 Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 171 Richard Johnson 1 applies to all activities of the corporation and 2 its subsidiary and is not limited to construction 3 or maintenance projects. The policy is intended 4 both to protect the corporation from future 5 liability and, of equal importance, to protect the 6 health of employees and others." 7 Correct? 8 A. Yes, that's what it says. 9 Q. The next paragraph down, the second 10 sentence -- well, let me read it all: 11 "The ultimate object of the policy is to 12 eliminate the use of asbestos in connection with 13 any corporate activity, but it appears that the 14 ultimate goal is not entirely feasible at this 15 time. 16 "I've been advised that in connection with 17 the sale of certain products and supply of certain 18 services, asbestos-containing materials are 19 required to be used because there is no 20 satisfactory substitute available." 21 Do you see that? 22 A. Which section do you refer to? 23 Q. The first -- the second paragraph on 24 the -25 A. Oh, on the first page. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 172 Richard Johnson 1 Q. Right. 2 A. Okay. Yes, I see it. 3 Q. And were you -- do you know which 4 particular products there was no satisfactory 5 substitute available? 6 A. Yes. Some of this work trickled down 7 to me even though I did not receive this. 8 My division manager, if you will, informed 9 me that "We will eliminate all asbestos products. 10 If you have any substitutes that we haven't already 11 used or been aware of, please take care of it. 12 Please make sure we have them." 13 Q. And what were the products that you 14 couldn't find a -- or that Foster Wheeler couldn't 15 find a substitute? 16 A. At this time, all the insulating 17 products had already been replaced for years. 18 Q. Sure. That's what I'm trying to figure 19 out. What -- what products couldn't you find a 20 substitute? 21 A. The remaining products were such things 22 as tapes and compressed asbestos-containing boards 23 and blankets, woven blankets, because the 24 fiberglass people and the ceramic fiber people 25 were -- they were in the process. We had them Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 173 Richard Johnson 1 available at this time, and we did replace them. 2 Q. Eventually, they were replaced. 3 A. I can't give you a time -4 Q. Sure. 5 A. -- because there were already being 6 replaced. I don't know what happened at this 7 particular time span. 8 Q. And then it gives a direction. It 9 says: 10 "If the information is correct, the 11 management council will consider a limited and 12 temporary change in the policy. Please have the 13 person or persons concerned in your activity supply 14 me with the following information." 15 And it has six items, correct? 16 A. Six items? 17 Q. Yes, one, two, three, four, and five 18 and six on the -19 A. Oh, yes. 20 Q. -- second page. 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Okay. It says: 23 "I am sure that this letter will raise more 24 questions than it poses, but we do not" -- "do need 25 to become aware of the exact nature and extent of Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 174 Richard Johnson 1 all possible exposure to asbestos-related 2 liability. " 3 Do you see that? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And that was Mr. Kennedy's main 6 concern, is the asbestos-related liability, 7 correct? 8 A. Maybe. I can't speak for him. 9 Q. Well, that's what the -- that's what 10 that sentence says, right? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. We can set that Exhibit to the 13 side. 14 A. I'd -- I'd like to make it clear that 15 most asbestos-containing products had been 16 eliminated completely by 1983. 17 Q. But Mr. Kennedy was -- was most 18 concerned with the liability aspect of this issue, 19 correct? 20 MR. BLOW: Form. 21 THE WITNESS: Apparently, yes. 22 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 23 Q. Okay. A couple other Exhibits, and I 24 apologize, I don't have multiple copies. 25 The following was marked for Identification: Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 175 Richard Johnson 1 EXH. 78 photocopy of a photograph. 2 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 3 Q. This is a -- from Heat Engineering, and 4 this is the -- "Foster Wheeler's Global Nerve 5 Center," and I wish I had a better copy of that. 6 What -- what is the global nerve center? 7 A. This was the Perryville -- major 8 Perryville office complex in Livingston, New 9 Jersey. 10 Q. And is that -- is there a major 11 research facility there? 12 A. It was out in back of this. 13 Q. Okay. But there was a major research 14 and development facility there, correct? 15 A. It was a separate corporation in the 16 back. 17 Q. Well, part of Foster Wheeler, though, 18 right? 19 A. Yes, sir. 20 Q. Okay. All right. But that is a -- I 21 know it's a poor-quality picture, but that's an 22 aerial view of the -- of that global nerve center. 23 A. Of the -- of the major building, yes. 24 Q. Okay. And then Exhibit 79 here. 25 The following was marked for Identification: Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 176 Richard Johnson 1 EXH. 79 one-page photocopy. 2 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 3 Q. Yes, you can set that Exhibit over here 4 on the stack there. 5 And 79 is once again from -- from Heat 6 Engineering, and this is the 50th anniversary, and 7 it has -- I 've highlighted several different 8 activities that Foster Wheeler was involved with, 9 correct? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. And -- and -- and it's -- I've got 12 "steam generating plants." 13 Foster Wheeler participated in manufacturing 14 products for that, correct? 15 A. That's correct. 16 Q. And petroleum processing plants? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. And then -19 A. Process plants. 20 Q. Oh -- oh, process plants? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And fire heaters? 23 A. Yes, sir. 24 Q. And then there's a whole bunch of boats 25 and ships and things of that nature for the Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 177 Richard Johnson 1 military. 2 A. That's what they claim, yes. 3 Q. Okay. All right. You can set that 4 Exhibit to the side. 5 That's -- you would agree that's from Heat 6 Engineering, right? 7 A. That's what it says, yes. 8 Q. Okay. Now, a couple other points. 9 The Walsh-Healey Act. Are you familiar with 10 the Walsh-Healey Act? 11 A. I've heard of it. 12 MR. BLOW: Form. 13 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 14 Q. Was it your understanding that Foster 15 Wheeler did have contracts with the federal 16 government with regards to these boilers? Correct? 17 A. I've been told that, yes. 18 Q. You weren't personally involved with 19 that, right? 20 A. No. 21 Q. And did -- did you -- in your 22 preparation for being the person most 23 knowledgeable, did you go back and review the -24 what the Walsh-Healey Act of 1936 said as it 25 relates to hazardous or dangerous materials? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 178 Richard Johnson 1 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 2 THE WITNESS: I know about the Walsh-Healey 3 Act as it related to some installations made before 4 1968, I believe. I've seen that in deposition. 5 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 6 Q. Did you -- did you know that the 7 Walsh -- Walsh-Healey Act specifically referenced 8 exposure to asbestos? 9 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 10 THE WITNESS: I can't state that it didn't. 11 It -- it probably did, but I -- I don't recall the 12 exact wording. 13 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 14 Q. There was one other -- bear with me 15 just one second. 16 A. Sure. 17 Q. I misplaced something. Oh, I know. I 18 was going to ask you a question about an 19 individual. 20 Did you know an individual who worked at 21 Foster Wheeler in the Livingston, New Jersey plant 22 named J.H. Eddy, Jr.? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And who was that? 25 A. He was involved with repair service, Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 179 Richard Johnson 1 repair order service for boilers, as I knew him. 2 Q. And when you say "repair service," is 3 that -- did Foster Wheeler have a -- I guess a 4 section or division where they'd go out and repair 5 the boiler when it needed to be repaired? 6 A. I assume that's what he did. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. I'm not sure he went out and did it as 9 opposed to sublet it. 10 Q. Did -- I -- I mentioned Walsh-Healey -11 the Walsh-Healey Act. 12 In addition to the Walsh-Healey Act, is it 13 fair to say that Foster Wheeler was the type of 14 company that would be aware or stay abreast of the 15 various state laws that they were operating within? 16 MR. BLOW: Objection to form, calls for 17 legal conclusion. 18 THE WITNESS: I certainly assume they would. 19 I assume they would. 20 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 21 Q. Okay. And have you -- in preparation 22 for being the person most qualified or most 23 knowledgeable in this case on the history of -- of 24 their knowledge, have you went back to look to see 25 what research Foster Wheeler did with regards to Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 180 Richard Johnson 1 any particular laws having to do with asbestos? 2 MR. BLOW: Form, foundation. 3 THE WITNESS: No. 4 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 5 Q. And that would include Kentucky. 6 A. That's correct. 7 Q. Relating to take-home exposure, 8 exposures that occur from clothing taken home into 9 the -- into the -- to the wives or the kids of the 10 various workers, have you seen anything that Foster 11 Wheeler did to research that issue in the '50s or 12 '60s? 13 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 14 THE WITNESS: When you say research it, what 15 do you mean, sir? 16 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 17 Q. Research the risk of -- of people in 18 the community to dust or to asbestos. 19 A. No. 20 Q. Okay. In the 1970s after the passage 21 of -- of OSHA -- well, let me stop before I ask 22 that question. 23 From 1968 when you attended that meeting 24 with Dr. Selikoff -- from '68 to '72, are you aware 25 of anything that Foster Wheeler did with regards to Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 181 Richard Johnson 1 take-home exposure to asbestos? 2 MR. BLOW: Objection to form, overbroad. 3 THE WITNESS: Would you define "take-home"? 4 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 5 Q. Sure. 6 A. You're talking about clothing? 7 Q. Clothing, to prevent -- prevent 8 clothing from being contaminated, taken home. 9 A. I don't know. 10 Q. Okay. After OSHA, from -- from 1972 11 until that policy that we saw a few minutes ago in 12 1983 where it was banned -- asbestos was banned in 13 total, are you aware of anything in those 11 years 14 from '72 to '83 that Foster Wheeler did with 15 regards to take-home exposure, asbestos on the 16 clothing? 17 MR. BLOW: Form, foundation. 18 THE WITNESS: There was no asbestos to take 19 home, so no, I don't believe anything was done. 20 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 21 Q. Let me move to strike -- politely move 22 to strike the -- anything other than "no," okay? 23 Let me reask that question just so the 24 record's clean. 25 You're not aware of anything that Foster Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 182 Richard Johnson 1 Wheeler did with regard to asbestos on clothing and 2 taken home to folks' house -- houses from '72 to 3 '83, correct? 4 MR. BLOW: Same objection. 5 THE WITNESS: No, I'm not aware. 6 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 7 Q. Final issue: You have been a corporate 8 representative for Foster Wheeler since 1995 in 9 litigation, right? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And -- and you -- they pay you for your 12 time. 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Okay. And the last deposition I read, 15 it was $200 an hour. Is it still $200 an hour? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Okay. And does that include time in 18 deposition here today? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And does that include time to prepare 21 for the deposition? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And in this particular deposition, how 24 much time did you spend preparing to get ready for 25 my questions? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 183 Richard Johnson 1 A. Oh, maybe less than 16 hours. 2 Q. Okay. And the time that -- the less 3 than 16 hours, how much less? 15 hours? 4 A. Well, a day and a half -5 Q. Okay. 6 A. -- but I didn't measure it. 7 Q. And -- and when did that occur? 8 A. This past week. 9 Q. Okay. And would that consist of 10 basically reviewing your prior testimony? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And -13 A. That was included. 14 Q. Pardon? 15 A. That was included. 16 Q. And what else did you do? 17 A. I reviewed such things as the letter I 18 had written to -- about Selikoff in '68, evidence 19 that's been introduced before. 20 Not very many of them. Maybe ten sheets of 21 paper. 22 Q. Okay. Anything else that you've done 23 to prepare for today's testimony? 24 A. No. 25 MR. SATTERLEY: Sir, those are all the Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 184 Richard Johnson 1 questions I'm going to have for you today. I'm 2 offering if anybody else has any -- anybody on the 3 phone have any questions? 4 Do you have any questions? 5 MR. BLOW: I do. 6 MR. SATTERLEY: Okay. 7 MR. BLOW: I have a couple. 8 MR. SATTERLEY: All right. 9 (Discussion off the record.) 10 (A recess was then taken at 1419.) 11 (On the record at 1419.) 12 13 EXAMINATION BY MR. BLOW: 14 15 Q. Okay, Mr. Johnson. Are you ready to 16 continue? 17 A. Yes, sir. 18 Q. All right. I just have a few questions 19 for you. 20 When we first started today - - I don't know 21 which Exhibit it is. 22 MR. BLOW: This one here, Joe. 23 MR. SATTERLEY: I think it's Exhibit 2 or 3. 24 BY MR. BLOW: 25 Q. Okay. That contains the sources of Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 185 Richard Johnson 1 information you -- that -- that may or may not have 2 been relevant for your testimony today. You recall 3 looking at this -- this Exhibit? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Okay. The first one, A, medical 6 journals -- well, I'll take them all generally 7 first. 8 There's medical journals, medical meetings, 9 medical textbooks, trade publication, general 10 publications, internal corporate documents, 11 consultants, and I'm missing page 2. 12 And a few others on -- on the second page. 13 MR. SATTERLEY: The last one -- there's only 14 one, lawsuits and workers' compensation claims. 15 BY MR. BLOW: 16 Q. Okay. Although you may not have looked 17 at those types of materials specifically for this 18 deposition today, are those the -- that we just 19 listed the types of materials that you have seen in 20 the past in preparation for your depositions? 21 A. Many of them, yes. 22 Q. Okay. Indeed, some were presented to 23 you today, correct? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Okay. Some of them you've seen before, Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 186 Richard Johnson 1 correct? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. All right. And you've been deposed 4 several times in the past. I think you said about 5 ten? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. All right. And in preparation for this 8 deposition, just like many depositions that you've 9 given, you 've gone back and looked at some of your 10 previous testimony, correct? 11 MR. SATTERLEY: Objection, leading. 12 THE WITNESS: Yes. 13 BY MR. BLOW: 14 Q. Is that correct? Okay. And in 15 preparation for those depositions, you've looked at 16 some of your own documents. 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. You've looked at documents that 19 have been presented to you by the lawyers who were 20 asking you questions, correct? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. All right. 23 MR. SATTERLEY: Objection, leading. 24 BY MR. BLOW: 25 Q. And -- Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 187 Richard Johnson 1 DEFENSE COUNSEL: I'm so sorry to interrupt, 2 but we can barely hear his questions over the 3 telephone. I apologize for the interruption, but I 4 was wondering if you all could move the phone 5 closer to -6 MR. SATTERLEY: Unfortunately, the cord 7 doesn't go that far. He's just going to have to 8 keep his voice -9 MR. BLOW: I'll -- I'll talk a little 10 louder. 11 DEFENSE COUNSEL: Thanks. 12 BY MR. BLOW: 13 Q. Okay. So my question to you, 14 Mr. Johnson, is did -- did you feel the need -15 well, strike that. 16 You -- you've been designated today by 17 Foster Wheeler to be -- as the person most 18 knowledgeable about Foster Wheeler's historical 19 knowledge of the use and dangers of asbestos, 20 correct? 21 A. Yes, sir. 22 Q. And did you feel the need to -- to go 23 back and review documents that you have reviewed 24 many times before in order to refresh your 25 recollection of what Foster Wheeler's historical Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 188 Richard Johnson 1 knowledge of the dangers of asbestos is? 2 MR. SATTERLEY: Objection, leading. 3 THE WITNESS: Not really. 4 BY MR. BLOW: 5 Q. Okay. These are all things that 6 you've -- you've looked at before, and you're 7 familiar with Foster Wheeler's position, correct? 8 MR. SATTERLEY: Objection, leading. 9 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. I was there during 10 that period. 11 BY MR. BLOW: 12 Q. You've been asked at previous 13 depositions and including today what Foster Wheeler 14 did or did not do during certain periods of time in 15 Foster Wheeler's history, correct? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. When did Foster Wheeler first 18 understand that asbestos could cause lung cancer? 19 A. At the Selikoff meeting in 1968. Up 20 until then, it had been associated with asbestosis. 21 Q. And is -22 A. I heard the word "lung cancer" at 23 Dr. Selikoff's meeting. 24 Q. And is the same true for mesothelioma? 25 A. Yes, sir. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 189 Richard Johnson 1 Q. Okay. And what was Foster Wheeler's 2 understanding of the types of exposures were 3 required in order to cause lung cancer and 4 mesothelioma? 5 A. It's always been massive -- up until 6 the time the regulations changed in 1972, it was 7 massive doses, such as in mines or heavily engaged 8 textile plants where there was fiber everywhere. 9 Not in our operation. 10 Q. And as you've testified before, there 11 are -- there were tests that were done, if not by 12 Foster Wheeler, then by others, that -- that 13 created in Foster Wheeler's mind a certain 14 impression as to what was -- what types of 15 exposures are required; is that correct? 16 MR. SATTERLEY: Objection, leading. 17 THE WITNESS: After -18 MR. SATTERLEY: Also assumes facts not in 19 evidence. 20 THE WITNESS: After '68, there were 21 confirmation tests that were run, such as the 22 amount of fiber released in the air when somebody 23 cuts tape gasket in half. 24 There were other tests up through the period 25 that were -- were made and are documented. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 190 Richard Johnson 1 BY MR. BLOW: 2 Q. Was it ever Foster Wheeler's 3 understanding that the manner in which 4 asbestos-containing products were used with Foster 5 Wheeler's boilers ever created conditions that 6 exceeded acceptable levels pursuant to OSHA or any 7 other law? 8 MR. SATTERLEY: Objection, foundation, also 9 leading. 10 THE WITNESS: It's my belief, being closely 11 involved in the products, that Foster Wheeler never 12 had unacceptable levels of exposure to asbestos. 13 MR. SATTERLEY: Move to strike as 14 nonresponsive. 15 MR. BLOW: Okay. Sir, that's all the 16 questions I have for you. 17 MR. SATTERLEY: I'm just going to have a few 18 follow-up there. 19 THE WITNESS: Sure. 20 21 FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR. SATTERLEY: 22 23 Q. When you say Foster Wheeler never had 24 unacceptable levels, have you brought with you here 25 today any monitoring or measurements in the '40s, Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 191 Richard Johnson 1 '50s, or '60s where Foster Wheeler measured what 2 levels of exposure to asbestos occurred? 3 MR. BLOW: Objection, misstates the 4 testimony. Go ahead. 5 THE WITNESS: I haven't them with me, but 6 there are documents showing measurements in -7 before Selikoff and after Selikoff with regarding 8 to the fact that we did not have harmful levels of 9 exposure. 10 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 11 Q. Now, we talked about -- we talked about 12 three of them: Michigan, Florida Power & Light, and 13 a spray in Ohio, right? 14 A. Yes, and there were other tests later 15 as we started to remove asbestos products from our 16 lists, tests of exposures both in the shop and in 17 the cutting of gaskets. 18 Q. And have you brought any of those 19 documents with you? 20 A. Not with me, no. 21 Q. Okay. The -- the -- the -- from 1946 22 until 1968, are you aware of any test that Foster 23 Wheeler did with regards to levels of asbestos at 24 any place? 25 MR. BLOW: Objection to form, asked and Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 192 Richard Johnson 1 answered. 2 THE WITNESS: No, I think I've already 3 testified that I know of no tests that were done. 4 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 5 Q. So when you said Foster Wheeler 6 believed - - when your lawyer was asking you 7 questions, Foster Wheeler believed that you had to 8 have massive doses, is there a contemporaneous 9 document in the '40s, '50s, early '60s that gives 10 you the basis to say the corporation believed that? 11 A. If I may, I am the contemporary 12 document. I lived this. I worked in these 13 environments, and I was fully aware of what was in 14 the products and that we did not reach harmful 15 levels. 16 Q. All right. Is there -- I think we 17 established earlier that when you were talking 18 about the '68 time frame, that that was when you 19 learned about asbestos, mesothelioma, and lung 20 cancer. 21 A. I learned about lung cancer as being 22 related to asbestosis. 23 Q. And -- and also -24 A. And mesothelioma, yes. 25 Q. And mesothelioma. But my question is, Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 193 Richard Johnson 1 and I think you said earlier, that was when you 2 personally learned about it, correct? 3 A. I was the only one attending -- I was 4 representing -5 Q. Yes. 6 A. -- myself. I reported on it, yes. 7 Q. But as far as what other people within 8 the corporation knew in the '40s, '50s, or '60s, 9 you simply don't know what those other individuals 10 knew. 11 MR. BLOW: Form. 12 THE WITNESS: I do know what levels of 13 exposure we had, and none were worse than the 14 spraying of asbestos, which was reported safe at 15 Selikoff's meeting due to the tests at Wyandotte. 16 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 17 Q. Move to strike as nonresponsive. 18 You can't -- you do not know, for example, 19 what -- other than documents, you don't know what 20 Admiral Mills knew at any given point in time, 21 correct? Earle Mills. 22 A. No. 23 Q. Okay. And the same is true with all 24 the other leaders of the corporation I asked you 25 about, the managers, the directors. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 194 Richard Johnson 1 You don't know what they knew, right? 2 A. I've been told what they knew in some 3 documents that have been shown to me. 4 Q. Other than what you've been told and 5 what we've went through documents, you don't know 6 what they knew, fair? 7 MR. BLOW: Form. 8 THE WITNESS: No, I don't think that's fair. 9 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 10 Q. Okay. So in 1968, you started an 11 asbestosis file, right? 12 MR. BLOW: Form. 13 THE WITNESS: Asbestos file. 14 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 15 Q. Asbestos file. 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. At any point in time prior to 1968, did 18 Foster Wheeler have an asbestos file that you can 19 go look at? 20 A. My job was to have the knowledge of all 21 refractory and insulating materials. I had files 22 on all of them. 23 After the Selikoff meeting, I started a file 24 on asbestos because things started coming in 25 related to asbestos. Up until then, I don't recall Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 195 Richard Johnson 1 anything being -- there was no asbestos file. 2 Q. And in the 20 years you've been the 3 corporate representative from 1995 to 2015, you 4 have not -- in this task of being the person most 5 knowledgeable on asbestos and the history of 6 asbestos, you haven't gone back to the technical 7 library to look at books or the scores and scores 8 of publications that exist there? 9 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 10 THE WITNESS: Of old publications? 11 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 12 Q. Sure. 13 A. Not current. Old. 14 Q. Old. 15 A. No. 16 Q. Okay. I want to show you Exhibit 80, 17 which is a -- apologize. 18 The following was marked for Identification: 19 EXH. 80 Corporate Policy Letter 20 issued 2-4-65. 21 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 22 Q. It's -- it's the retention policy. 23 It s the 1965 retention policy of Foster Wheeler. 24 If you could just verify for me that that is the 25 Foster Wheeler -- that's a Foster Wheeler document. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 196 Richard Johnson 1 A. Yes. 2 MR. BLOW: Just note my objection that Dick 3 Johnson is not the person most knowledgeable 4 regarding Foster Wheeler's records retention 5 policy, is not the person most knowledgeable, nor 6 is he being designated as the person to speak on 7 Foster Wheeler's record retention policy. 8 He hasn't been prepared for it, but see what 9 he knows. 10 THE WITNESS: I said yes because I've seen 11 this before. 12 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 13 Q. Yes, of course. If you'd turn to the 14 third page, it has permanent -- permanent -15 permanent materials, what's going to be permanently 16 kept. Do you see that? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. And plant surveys are permanently kept, 19 correct? 20 A. I don't know what "plant survey" would 21 mean. 22 Q. Okay. Are you aware of whether Foster 23 Wheeler has permanently kept all of its records 24 where they measured the massive doses of asbestos 25 that had to occur before people got sick? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 197 Richard Johnson 1 MR. BLOW: Objection to form, foundation. 2 THE WITNESS: Am I aware that they amassed 3 literature regarding massive doses? 4 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 5 Q. No, no, no, no, no. Did they keep -6 the retention policy. Did they keep the 7 documentation, the surveys where they made the 8 determination that it's only massive doses of 9 asbestos that is harmful? 10 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 11 THE WITNESS: During the period up -12 MR. BLOW: Assumes facts. 13 THE WITNESS: -- through '68? 14 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 15 Q. Sure. 16 A. Until '68? 17 Q. Yes. 18 A. Not that I know of. 19 Q. Okay. And so I guess what I'm trying 20 to see is in the -- if I could borrow that back 21 just for one second. 22 The executive minutes is also something 23 that 's kept. Do you see that, "executive minutes"? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Permanently kept, right? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 198 Richard Johnson 1 A. So it says. 2 Q. Have you gone back and looked at the 3 executive minutes where President Mills and some of 4 these other -- President Kenney, you know, Foster 5 Wheeler -- where they discussed the massive doses 6 and came to the conclusion "Hey, we can keep using 7 asbestos, because it's only the massive doses that 8 get people sick"? 9 MR. BLOW: Same objection, lacks foundation. 10 Hold on, Dick. 11 To the extent that that document is 1965, 12 Joe, and any minutes prior thereto are subject to 13 that, just note my objection. 14 Go ahead, Dick, answer. 15 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 16 Q. Have you gone back and looked at the 17 executive minutes and what they said or reasons 18 they took certain actions? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Okay. Those are all the questions I'm 21 going to have for you today. Oh, well, no, one 22 second. Let me -- I apologize. 23 This Fleischer-Drinker Report, Exhibit 6 24 that I left right there. In the Fleischer-Drinker 25 Report, it says that in order to get levels below Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 199 Richard Johnson 1 that 5 million particles, you got to take some 2 action, right? 3 MR. BLOW: Form. 4 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I can't quote a 5 specific phrase. 6 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 7 Q. Let me borrow that. 8 A. I don't think it's in the conclusions, 9 is it? 10 Q. Let me -- let me show it to you. 11 So, for example, "The material was cut with 12 a saw in a separate room, and the operator wore an 13 approved respirator." 14 That's one of the things they talked about 15 in that. You know that, right? 16 A. That's what it says, yes. 17 Q. All right. So that would put somebody 18 on notice that if -- if this material's cut, they 19 should be in a separate room and there should be an 20 approved respirator, correct? 21 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 22 THE WITNESS: I don't look upon that as 23 putting somebody on notice. That was a report in 24 their investigation. 25 Well, I haven't analyzed the whole report in Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 200 Richard Johnson 1 that light. 2 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 3 Q. And -- and if there are other 4 industrial hygiene controls that are being employed 5 to try to get the levels down to 5 million 6 particles per cubic foot, you don't know about 7 that, right? 8 A. We were already -9 MR. BLOW: Form. 10 THE WITNESS: -- below that level. 11 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 12 Q. I'm talking Fleischer-Drinker, sir. 13 Move to strike "We were below." 14 In 1946, you have no dust measurements. 15 A. We were still below, in my opinion. 16 Q. Okay. Move to strike your opinion 17 under the best evidence rule. 18 Look -- look -- see right here under "Navy 19 Yard B, millions of particles per cubic foot, 20 39.5"? 21 Do you see that? 22 A. Sure. 23 Q. 84.0. Do you see that? 24 A. While they were mixing, yes. 25 Q. Yes, and 26.9. Do you see that? Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 201 Richard Johnson 1 A. Those are averages of such things as 2 cutting and mixing, yes. 3 Q. 128.0. Do you see that? The ship 4 average? That's millions per -5 A. Yes, I see that. 6 Q. Okay. So that's -- that's -- that's -7 all those numbers are above 5 million particles, 8 right? 9 MR. BLOW: Objection. 10 THE WITNESS: I go to the conclusion of 11 these tests, not to individual -- individual 12 measurements, and to me the conclusions were that 13 these were not harmful. 14 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 15 Q. Well, no, that's not what it says. 16 A. Well, shall we read it? 17 Q. Let's -- read all four conclusions. 18 A. "The character of asbestos pipe 19 covering industry onboard Naval vessels is such 20 that conclusions drawn from other asbestos 21 industries such as textiles cannot be applied. 22 "The operation of band saw cutting, 23 grinding, cement mixing, and installation onboard 24 ships should be equipped with exhaust ventilation 25 to keep the total dust concentration low. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 202 Richard Johnson 1 "The incidence of asbestosis among pipe 2 coverers in the shipyards studied was low, 3 .29 percent or three cases out of 1074. 4 "In view of the nature of shipyard pipe 5 covering work, the low incidence is not surprising. 6 Since each of the three cases of asbestosis had 7 worked at asbestos pipe covering in shipyards for 8 more than 20 years, it may be concluded that such 9 pipe covering is not a dangerous occupation." 10 Q. So if it -- if it tells you anything 11 else, it -- it tells you that you got to use 12 equipment -- ventilation equipment around this 13 material to reduce the level of dust. 14 It tells you that, right? 15 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 16 THE WITNESS: No. 17 MR. BLOW: Hold on, Dick. 18 THE WITNESS: Oh, I'm sorry. 19 MR. BLOW: Just note my objection to the 20 line of questioning, that Mr. Johnson's not an 21 industrial hygienist, and this is getting into 22 expert testimony if you want him to the interpret 23 the documents. 24 THE WITNESS: It tells me if you're in a 25 shipyard, this might apply. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 203 Richard Johnson 1 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 2 Q. And how many boilers did Foster Wheeler 3 sell for ships? 4 A. We didn't assemble them in the -- in 5 the -6 Q. Thousands and thousands of boilers were 7 sold by Foster Wheeler to ships, right? 8 A. They were not field assemblies. 9 Q. Was it thousands and thousands of 10 boilers sold to ships by Foster Wheeler? 11 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 12 THE WITNESS: Sir, you're insinuating that 13 every -- all the thousands were -- had 14 asbestos-containing materials applied in the 15 shipyard. They weren't. 16 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 17 Q. How many of the thousands had 18 asbestos-containing materials in the shipyard? 19 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. Mr. Johnson 20 is not designated -21 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 22 MR. SATTERLEY: Okay. 23 MR. BLOW: Mr. Johnson is not designated to 24 speak on such topics. 25 BY MR. SATTERLEY: Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 204 Richard Johnson 1 Q. Do you know why Mr. Mills and Drinker 2 excluded the people that were sick from asbestos 3 from the Bath Iron Works? 4 MR. BLOW: Objection to form, calls for 5 speculation. Dick, I don't know how you answer 6 that. 7 THE WITNESS: Of course I couldn't know why. 8 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 9 Q. Okay. All right. Do you know why they 10 only cite to -- to two medical articles in the list 11 of references? 12 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 13 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 14 MR. BLOW: Lacks personal knowledge. 15 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 16 Q. Do you know the -- do you know the 17 connection that Philip Drinker had with the -- with 18 industry in general? 19 MR. BLOW: Objection to form, calls for 20 speculation. 21 THE WITNESS: No. 22 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 23 Q. Do you know the connection Anthony 24 Lanza had -25 A. Never heard of him. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 205 Richard Johnson 1 Q. Okay. So there's only -- there's -2 there's two -- two citations here. 3 Lanza. Did you know that he was the head of 4 MetLife Insurance Company -5 A. No. 6 Q. -- insuring various companies -7 A. No. 8 Q. -- on asbestos issues? 9 And then Dreessen. Did you know Dreessen 10 met privately with industry in the '30s? 11 A. No. 12 MR. BLOW: Form, foundation. 13 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 14 Q. So -- but regardless, you have no 15 evidence that Fleischer-Drinker -- this 16 Fleischer-Drinker Report was ever in -- in the 17 hands of Foster Wheeler. 18 MR. BLOW: Objection to form, lacks 19 foundation. 20 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 21 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 22 Q. Okay. And the first time you saw it 23 was in litigation, correct? 24 A. That's correct. 25 Q. When you were -- since you've been a Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 206 Richard Johnson 1 litigation consultant. 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Okay. So if we put Fleischer-Drinker 4 aside and come back to when you knew about asbestos 5 and lung cancer and mesothelioma, that would be 6 1968. 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And you talked to your boss, Nevitt? 9 Is that his name? 10 A. Daman, D-A -11 MR. BLOW: Form. 12 THE WITNESS: D-A-M-A-N. Daman. 13 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 14 Q. Oh, Daman. You talked to him about 15 asbestos and mesothelioma at that time frame. 16 A. I wrote the letter report which is in 17 all the evidence. 18 Q. Sure. And so after you learned about 19 asbestos and mesothelioma in '68, did Foster 20 Wheeler change its insulation standards -21 MR. BLOW: Objection -22 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 23 Q. -- to -- to eliminate asbestos? 24 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 25 THE WITNESS: No. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 207 Richard Johnson 1 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 2 Q. Okay. Did Foster Wheeler issue any 3 warnings relative to asbestos in its insulation 4 standards? 5 A. No, because -6 MR. BLOW: Form. 7 THE WITNESS: -- it was proven by Selikoff 8 we didn't have any dangerous levels. 9 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 10 Q. Move to strike portions that are 11 nonresponsive. My question, sir, is: 12 After you and the other managers that you 13 told me about you told this to in 1968 about 14 mesothelioma, did Foster Wheeler issue any type of 15 warnings to any of their customers about asbestos? 16 MR. BLOW: Form. 17 THE WITNESS: No, and there was a reason for 18 that. I'm waiting for you to ask for the reason so 19 I won't -20 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 21 Q. I don't -- I'm not asking for your 22 personal opinion. 23 A. Okay. 24 Q. Do you have a -- do you have a 25 memorandum -- a Foster Wheeler memorandum Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 208 Richard Johnson 1 contemporaneous from 1968, '69, '70 that discusses 2 "We are not going to warn our customers about 3 mesothelioma for the following reasons"? 4 A. No. 5 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 6 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 7 Q. Okay. Do you have a contemporaneous 8 memorandum in 1968, 1969, 1970 that indicates 9 that -- we can look at to say Foster Wheeler made a 10 decision not to warn because of the massive doses 11 of asbestos it took to get people to get sick? 12 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 13 THE WITNESS: There were no massive doses. 14 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 15 Q. Okay. And do you have any 16 contemporaneous memorandums that that was the 17 reason why Foster Wheeler didn't warn? 18 MR. BLOW: Objection to form. 19 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 20 Q. Because there's no massive -- massive 21 doses? 22 A. I have no contemporary memorandum. 23 Q. And so we just have to take your word 24 for it. 25 MR. BLOW: Form, argumentative. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 209 Richard Johnson 1 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 2 Q. Right? 3 A. I guess you do, yes. 4 Q. Okay. And are you available to come 5 testify in Kentucky in February? 6 A. I guess so, right? 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. All right. And so Foster Wheeler, 10 they -- if they -- they make the decision whether 11 or not to bring you to the trial or not to bring 12 you for trial. 13 Pointing to the lawyer, right? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Okay. You know I can't -- I can't 16 force you to come, right? You know that. 17 A. At the Derby time, you could. 18 Q. In February when it's snowing, can I 19 force you to come? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. I can force you to come? 22 A. I'm sorry. We're still on -23 Q. I can -- you know I can't force you to 24 come, right? 25 A. Right. Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 210 Richard Johnson 1 Q. All right. 2 MR. SATTERLEY: Those are all the questions 3 I'm going to have for you right now. 4 MR. BLOW: Nothing else. Anybody on the 5 phone? 6 MR. SATTERLEY: Anybody on the phone have 7 questions? Let's close out the record. 8 (Proceedings of 08/14/15 were then concluded 9 at 1444.) 10 11 * ** 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 211 Richard Johnson 1 I hereby CERTIFY that I have read the 2 foregoing 210 pages, and that they are a true and 3 accurate transcript of the testimony given by me in 4 the above entitled action on August 14, 2015. 5 6 7 RICHARD C. JOHNSON 8 9 Sworn to before me this 10 11 day of ---------------------, 2015. 12 13 14 NOTARY PUBLIC. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 212 Richard Johnson 1 STATE OF NEW YORK ) 2 ss: 3 COUNTY OF ERIE ) 4 5 I DO HEREBY CERTIFY as a Notary Public in and 6 for the State of New York, that I did attend and 7 report the foregoing deposition, which was taken 8 down by me in a verbatim manner by means of machine 9 shorthand. Further, that the deposition was then 10 reduced to writing in my presence and under my 11 direction. That the deposition was taken to be 12 used in the foregoing entitled action. That the 13 said deponent, before examination, was duly sworn 14 to testify to the truth, the whole truth and 15 nothing but the truth, relative to said action. 16 17 18 LORI K. BECK, CSR, RDR, CRR, 19 Notary Public. 20 21 22 23 24 25 Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 213 Richard Johnson 1 2 Exhibit 3 EXH. 1 4 EXH. 2 5 6 EXH. 3 7 EXH. 4 8 9 EXH. 5 10 11 EXH. 6 12 EXH. 7 13 14 EXH. 8 15 EXH. 9 16 17 EXH. 10 18 EXH. 11 19 20 21 EXH. 12 22 23 EXH. 13 24 25 EXH. 14 INDEX TO EXHIBITS Description Page deposition notice. 7 one-page document entitled "Product: Foster Wheeler Boilers." 20 two-page document entitled "Sources of information." 25 color photocopy entitled "Earle W. Mills." 43 document entitled "September 21, 1945, Admiral Mills." 44 Fleischer-Drinker Report. 45 color photocopy entitled "Draft of the report sent to Admiral Mills on September 21, 1945." 46 color photocopy. 49 color photocopy entitled "1933 NSC Invisible Dust." 52 color photocopy entitled "1935 NSD Invisible Dust." 57 color photocopy entitled "1936 National Safety Council Knowledge re: invisible dust." 64 color photocopy entitled "1963 NSC Don't Poison Families." 65 two-page document dated August 2, 1934, National Founders Association. 68 1950 Annual Report. 69 Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 1 EXH. 15 2 3 EXH. 16 4 5 EXH. 17 6 7 EXH. 18 8 9 EXH. 19-32 10 11 EXH. 33 12 EXH. 34 13 14 15 EXH. 35 16 17 18 EXH. 36 19 EXH. 37 20 21 EXH. 38 22 EXH. 39 23 24 25 document dated November 3, 1934, National Founders Association. "Dust in Industry," Mechanical Engineering, February 1933. "Dust in Industry," Mechanical Engineering, April 1933. "The Control of Industrial Dust," Mechanical Engineering, October 1933. color photocopies of Heat Engineering, 1929 through 1958. photocopy of a newspaper page. color photocopy entitled "Dansville Breeze, Dansville, New York, Thursday, February 1, 1951." color photocopy entitled "Dansville Breeze, Dansville, New York, Thursday, February 1, 1951." color photocopy. color photocopy entitled "The Danville site." color photocopy entitled "1928-29." color photocopy entitled "1946." Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com Page: 214 Richard Johnson 76 79 81 82 93 113 114 115 117 118 118 119 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 Page: 215 Richard Johnson 1 EXH. 40 2 3 4 EXH. 41 5 EXH. 42 6 EXH. 43 7 8 EXH. 44 9 EXH. 45 10 EXH. 46 11 EXH. 47 12 EXH. 48 13 14 EXH. 49 15 EXH. 50 16 17 EXH. 51 18 EXH. 52(A) 19 EXH. 52(B) 20 21 EXH. 53-72 22 EXH. 73 23 24 EXH. 74 25 color photocopy entitled "Dansville Breeze, Dansville, New York, Thursday, February 1, 1951." color photocopy. color photocopy entitled "Where Job Starts." color photocopy entitled "The Start of a Casting..." color photocopy. color photocopy. color photocopy. color photocopy of a New York Times article. two-page document entitled "Decipherment." two-page document dated December 19, 1944. two-page document dated January 31, 1945. two-page document dated 21 September 1945. color photocopy. Heat Engineering, January and February 1966. annual reports, 1951 through 1970. Foster Wheeler Insulation Standard Catalogue. patent entitled "Wall Construction for Heated Surfaces, April 2, 1968." 120 121 123 125 126 126 127 129 129 130 133 137 140 142 150 152 155 Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 1 EXH. 75 2 3 EXH. 76 4 5 EXH. 77 6 EXH. 78 7 EXH. 79 8 EXH. 80 8/14/2015 one-page document entitled "The Growing Years 1920-1970." Corporate Policy Letter Issued Feb. 1983, Revised May 1983. memo dated July 15, 1983. photocopy of a photograph. one-page photocopy. Corporate Policy Letter issued 2-4-65. Page: 216 Richard Johnson 160 162 169 175 176 195 10 11 *Original exhibits attached to Mr. Satterley's transcript. 12 Copies of exhibits attached to all other transcripts. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 8/14/2015 1 INDEX TO WITNESSES 2 Witness Examination 3 RICHARD C. JOHNSON BY MR. SATTERLEY: 4 BY MR. BLOW: 5 BY MR. SATTERLEY: 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com Page: 217 Richard Johnson Page 6 184 190 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. WORD INDEX <$> $200 182:1, 1 <0> 07102-5225 2:1 08 210:7 <1> 1 2:1 3:1 4:1 5:1 6:1 7:1, 1, 1 8:1, 1, 1, 1 9:1 10:1 11:1 12:1 13:1 14:1 15:1 16:1 17:1 18:1 19:1 20:1 21:1 22:1 23:1 24:1 25:1 26:1 27:1 28:1 29:1 30:1 31:1 32:1 33:1 34:1 35:1 36:1 37:1 38:1 39:1 40:1 41:1 42:1 43:1 44:1 45:1 46:1 47:1 48:1 49:1 50:1 51:1 52:1 53:1 54:1 55:1 56:1 57:1 58:1 59:1 60:1 61:1 62:1 63:1 64:1 65:1 66:1 67:1 68:1 69:1 70:1 71:1 72:1 73:1, 1, 1 74:1 75:1 76:1 77:1 78:1 79:1 80:1 81:1 82:1 83:1 84:1 85:1 86:1 87:1 88:1 89:1 90:1 91:1 92:1 93:1 94:1 95:1 96:1 97:1 98:1 99:1 100:1 101:1 102:1 103:1 104:1 105:1 106:1 107:1 108:1 109:1 110:1 111:1 112:1 113:1 114:1, 1 115:1, 1 116:1 117:1 118:1 119:1 120:1, 1 121:1 122:1 123:1 124:1 125:1 126:1 127:1 128:1 129:1 130:1 131:1 132:1, 1 133:1 134:1 135:1 136:1 137:1 138:1 139:1 140:1 141:1 142:1 143:1 144:1 145:1 146:1 147:1 148:1 149:1 150:1 151:1 152:1 153:1 154:1 155:1 156:1 157:1 158:1 159:1 160:1 161:1 162:1 163:1 164:1 165:1 166:1 167:1 168:1 169:1 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cardiovascular 133:1 care 172:1 career 39:1 153:1 154:1 carefully 75:1 carloads 118:1 Carter 134:1 Carteret 68:1, 1 117:1 128:1 Page:14 Richard Johnson case 6:1, 1 11:1, 1, 1 12:1 13:1, 1 15:1 19:1 34:1 54:1 179:1 cases 12:1 26:1 54:1 88:1 136:1 202:1, 1 Casting 125:1, 1, 1 215:1 catalog 20:1, 1, 1 152:1 Catalogue 152:1 215:1 catalytic 161:1 category 29:1 167:1 Cateret 68:1 cause 43:1 44:1, 1, 1 47:1 88:1, 1 188:1 189:1 caused 55:1 138:1 cc 107:1 cement 201:1 Center 2:1 27:1, 1, 1 28:1 175:1, 1 Center, 175:1 centered 97:1, 1 ceramic 50:1 51:1, 1, 1 153:1 159:1 170:1 172:1 ceramic, 51:1 Ceramics 145:1 certain 6:1 73:1 93:1 135:1 171:1, 1 188:1 189:1 198:1 Certainly 15:1 24:1 99:1 158:1 179:1 certification 80:1 CERTIFY 211:1 212:1 Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. chairman 38:1 41:1, 1 chance 7:1 8:1 change 23:1, 1, 1 158:1 173:1 206:1 changed 189:1 changes 71:1 132:1 133:1 chapter 89:1 103:1 character 201:1 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consider 154:1 155:1 173:1 considerable 72:1 73:1 138:1 consideration 74:1, 1 considered 111:1 154:1 considering 115:1 consist 128:1 183:1 consistent 132:1 133:1, 1 Page: 15 Richard Johnson constructed 140:1 Constructing 44:1 138:1, 1 140:1 construction 18:1 21:1, 1 83:1, 1 121:1, 1 141:1 155:1 156:1 157:1 165:1 167:1 171:1 215:1 construe 9:1 consult 35:1 consultant 206:1 consultants 26:1 35:1 185:1 contains 184:1 contaminate 66:1 contaminated 66:1 181:1 contamination 90:1 contemporaneou s 58:1 159:1 192:1 208:1, 1, 1 contemporary 192:1 208:1 content 84:1 continue 56:1 184:1 continuing 133:1 contract 135:1 138:1 141:1 contracts 168:1, 1 177:1 contribution 122:1 contributor 87:1 contributors 86:1, 1 87:1 control 16:1 52:1 57:1 82:1, 1, 1 83:1 84:1 Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 89: i 161:7 214:1 controlling 84:1, 1 controls 135:1 200:1 Convention 76:1 conversations 110:1, 1 112:1 cooling 119:1 Cooperative 3:1 copies 44:1 47:1 69:1 86:1 93:1, 1 94:1 138:1 152:1 174:1 216:1 copy 21:1 25:1 43:1 49:1 57:1 65:1 68:1 81:1 82:1 97:1 130:1, 1 134:1, 1 140:1 143:1 152:1 155:1 160:1 169:1 175:1 cord 187:1 corner 126:1 128:1 Corp 3:1 corporate 8:1, 1, 1 15:1 26:1 33:1, 1 34:1 39:1, 1 56:1, 1 57:1 162:1, 1 163:1, 1, 1 164:1 167:1 170:1 171:1 182:1 185:1 195:1, 1 216:1, 1 Corporation 2:1 4:1, 1 9:1 26:1, 1 27:1 28:1 36:1 38:1 39:1 40:1, 1 49:1 68:1 72:1 77:1 117:1 122:1 129:1 144:1, 1, 1 156:1 161:1 162:1, 1 164:1, 1 165:1 170:1 171:1, 1 175:1 192:1 193:1, 1 Corporation, 77:1, 1 116:1 corporations 38:1 72:1, 1 Correct 7:1, 1, 1, 1 9:1, 1, 1 10:1, 1 13:1 14:1, 1 16:1 18:1, 1, 1, 1 19:1 20:1 21:1, 1, 1 22:1 24:1 25:1, 1 27:1, 1 31:1 32:1, 1 34:1 35:1, 1 36:1, 1, 1, 1 37:1, 1 38:1 39:1 40:1, 1, 1 41:1 43:1 44:1 45:1, 1, 1 46:1, 1, 1 49:1, 1 50:1, 1 52:1, 1 53:1 57:1 65:1 68:1, 1 69:1 70:1 71:1 77:1, 1, 1, 1 79:1, 1 80:1, 1 82:1, 1, 1 85:1, 1 94:1 98:1, 1, 1, 1 99:1, 1 103:1 105:1 108:1 109:1 112:1 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212:1 cubic 59:1, 1 62:1 106:1 111:1 200:1, 1 current 195:1 customer 62:1 customers 19:1 95:1, 1 96:1 99:1 207:1 208:1 cut 117:1 199:1, 1 cuts 189:1 cutting 191:1 201:1, 1 <D> D-A 206:1 Daily 121:1 166:1 Dallas 3:1 Daman 50:1, 1 206:1, 1, 1 D-A-M-A-N 206:1 Daman, 50:1 Dan 113:1, 1 danger 55:1 103:1 dangerous 41:1 48:1 53:1 55:1 60:1 63:1 88:1 100:1 108:1 135:1 177:1 202:1 207:1 dangers 187:1 188:1 Page:16 Richard Johnson Dansville 10:1, 1 17:1, 1 50:1, 1, 1, 1 61:1, 1 63:1, 1 112:1 113:1, 1 114:1, 1 115:1, 1 117:1, 1, 1 118:1, 1, 1 120:1, 1 121:1 124:1 125:1 126:1, 1 128:1, 1, 1 129:1 148:1 214:1, 1, 1, 1 215:1, 1 Danville 10:1 113:1, 1, 1 114:1, 1 118:1 120:1 128:1 214:1 date 46:1 49:1 56:1 137:1, 1 159:1, 1, 1 165:1, 1 166:1, 1 dated 44:1 47:1 68:1 76:1 79:1 130:1 133:1 134:1 137:1 169:1 213:1 214:1 215:1, 1, 1 216:1 Dave 12:1, 1, 1, 1 13:1 DAVID 2:1 5:1 david.blow@sed gwicklaw.com 2:1 DAVIESS 1:1 day 119:1 137:1 139:1 183:1 211:1 days 15:1 deals 156:1 December 130:1, 1 131:1, 1 215:1 decided 55:1 166:1 deciding 155:1 Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 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179:1 divisions 115:1 170:1 doctors 28:1 29:1 73:1 document 17:1 20:1, 1 25:1 44:1 49:1 51:1 53:1 60:1, 1 63:1 68:1, 1 76:1, 1 129:1 130:1 133:1, 1 137:1 154:1 160:1, 1 192:1, 1 195:1 198:1 213:1, 1, 1, 1 214:1 215:1, 1, 1, 1 216:1 documentary 24:1 59:1, 1 61:1 documentation 84:1 91:1 197:1 documentations 62:1, 1 documented 59:1 60:1 189:1 documents 7:1 8:1, 1 14:1, 1 16:1 17:1, 1 26:1 33:1, 1, 1, 1 34:1, 1, 1, 1 48:1, 1 58:1 63:1 80:1 108:1, 1 109:1 Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com Page: 17 Richard Johnson 133:1 150:1, 1 151:1 164:1 185:1 186:1, 1 187:1 191:1, 1 193:1 194:1, 1 202:1 doing 23:1 123:1 144:1 Domtar 3:1 DORIS 1:1 5:1, 1 6:1 10:1 dose 103:1 doses 48:1 189:1 192:1 196:1 197:1, 1 198:1, 1 208:1, 1, 1 doubt 170:1 Dr 58:1 59:1 65:1 73:1 80:1 81:1 89:1, 1 102:1, 1 105:1 106:1 107:1, 1 132:1 134:1 180:1 188:1 Draft 46:1 119:1 213:1 drafting 74:1 124:1, 1 Draftsmen 124:1 drawing 122:1 drawn 201:1 Dreessen 87:1 130:1 131:1 205:1, 1 dressing 90:1, 1, 1, 1 91:1 92:1 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197:1 201:1 harmless 56:1 Harold 125:1 170:1 Harry 71:1, 1 72:1 Harvey 102:1, 1 Hatch 102:1, 1 106:1 HAWKINS 3:1 hazard 55:1 hazardous 41:1, 1 74:1 177:1 hazards 7:1 24:1, 1 26:1 29:1 42:1 43:1, 1 54:1 112:1 haze 57:1 head 118:1 170:1 205:1 header 128:1 headquarters 49:1 Health 44:1 47:1, 1 54:1, 1 55:1 74:1 75:1 131:1 138:1, 1, 1 142:1, 1 145:1 163:1 171:1 hear 26:1 95:1 187:1 heard 109:1, 1 177:1 188:1 204:1 hearsay 109:1 110:1 Heat 17:1 51:1 90:1 93:1, 1, 1, 1 94:1, 1, 1 95:1, 1, 1, 1 96:1, 1, 1, 1, 1 Page:21 Richard Johnson 97:1, 1, 1, 1, 1 98:1, 1 140:1 142:1, 1 143:1, 1 160:1 175:1 176:1 177:1 214:1 215:1 Heated 155:1 156:1 157:1 215:1 heaters 176:1 heavily 85:1 189:1 heavy 118:1 held 5:1 99:1, 1 119:1 hesitate 151:1 Hey 109:1 198:1 highest 122:1 highlighted 68:1 70:1, 1 72:1, 1 76:1 106:1 107:1 134:1 141:1 151:1 176:1 Hills 6:1 hire 89:1 115:1 historical 7:1 13:1 15:1 100:1 187:1, 1 historically 18:1 34:1 102:1 histories 166:1 History 132:1 179:1 188:1 195:1 Hoffman 38:1, 1, 1 112:1 Hold 110:1, 1, 1 198:1 202:1 home 66:1, 1 180:1 181:1, 1 182:1 Hoosier 3:1 hope 149:1 horse 6:1 horses 6:1 Hot 160:1 Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. hour 149:1 182:1, 1 hours 183:1, 1, 1 House 160:1, 1 182:1 housed 128:1 household 7:1 houses 182:1 How's 23:1 huge 58:1 Hunt 65:1 husband 11:1 hydrocarbons 51:1 hydro-cracking 161:1 hydrogen 161:1 Hygiene 85:1 86:1 87:1 102:1 135:1 200:1 hygienist 104:1 202:1 hygienists 29:1 <I> idea 142:1 ideal 74:1 ideals 106:1, 1 Identification 7:1 20:1 25:1 43:1 44:1 45:1 46:1 49:1 52:1 57:1 64:1 65:1 68:1 69:1 76:1 78:1 81:1 82:1 93:1 113:1 114:1 115:1 117:1, 1 118:1 119:1 120:1 121:1 123:1 125:1 126:1, 1 127:1 129:1, 1 130:1 133:1 137:1 140:1 142:1 150:1 152:1 155:1 160:1 162:1 169:1 174:1 175:1 195:1 identified 77:1 132:1 II 1:1 implemented 90:1 importance 171:1 important 103:1 138:1 impossible 163:1 impression 189:1 impressive 160:1 incapacity 64:1 inception 74:1 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169:1 MOORE 2:1 morning 6:1, 1 64:1 Page:25 Richard Johnson mortuary 10:1 97:1 Motor 119:1 move 58:1 62:1, 1 67:1 89:1 91:1 98:1 108:1 181:1, 1 187:1 190:1 193:1 200:1, 1 207:1 moved 27:1 160:1 multiple 69:1 174:1 Mutual 65:1 <N> naked 53:1 57:1 name 5:1 6:1 13:1 15:1, 1 41:1 51:1, 1 75:1 79:1, 1 80:1 121:1 147:1 151:1, 1 167:1 206:1 named 12:1 36:1 178:1 names 37:1 70:1 86:1, 1 NAPIER 2:1 nation 122:1 National 31:1 32:1, 1 52:1, 1, 1 57:1, 1 64:1, 1, 1 65:1, 1 66:1, 1, 1 67:1, 1, 1 68:1, 1 75:1 76:1, 1, 1 89:1 213:1, 1 214:1 nature 136:1 173:1 176:1 202:1 Naval 39:1 44:1 138:1, 1 201:1 Navy 39:1 40:1 42:1, 1 45:1 56:1 71:1 Coulter Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 85:1 120:1 129:1 134:1, 1 135:1, 1 138:1 139:1 200:1 near 55:1 necessarily 16:1 34:1 84:1 need 49:1 57:1 93:1 94:1 116:1 173:1 187:1, 1 needed 179:1 Nerve 175:1, 1, 1 never 27:1 40:1 58:1, 1, 1 59:1, 1 62:1 109:1, 1 114:1 133:1 190:1, 1 204:1 Nevitt 206:1 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Reporting, LLC www.coulterreporting.com Page:33 Richard Johnson THACKSTON 3:1 Thank 100:1, 1 115:1 117:1 140:1 152:1 Thanks 100:1 187:1 Theodore 102:1 theoretical 122:1 theory 111:1 thereto 198:1 Thermal 2:1 thing 70:1, 1, 1 123:1 126:1 131:1 136:1 138:1 149:1 162:1 168:1 things 12:1 14:1 15:1 172:1 176:1 183:1 188:1 194:1 199:1 201:1 think 15:1 19:1 25:1 31:1 35:1 44:1 52:1 57:1 91:1 93:1 106:1 127:1 130:1 135:1, 1 143:1 149:1 157:1 159:1 169:1 184:1 186:1 192:1, 1 193:1 194:1 199:1 third 29:1 196:1 Thomas 38:1, 1, 1 134:1 thought 34:1 67:1 108:1 124:1 141:1 thousand 136:1, 1 thousands 40:1, 1 203:1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 three 11:1 132:1 136:1, 1, 502-582-1627 Doris White v Triangle Enterprises, Inc., et al. 1, 1 157:1 173:1 191:1 202:1, 1 three-page 162:1 Threshold 103:1, 1 104:1, 1 Thursday 76:1 113:1 114:1 115:1 120:1 214:1, 1 215:1 time 5:1 10:1 13:1 17:1 31:1, 1 32:1, 1 36:1 38:1 39:1 50:1 51:1 56:1 59:1 61:1 64:1 70:1 79:1 81:1 82:1 88:1 90:1 91:1, 1 92:1 94:1, 1 95:1 104:1 107:1 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