Document 99xENw1yggEB6oqQd4pVog8L

FILE NAME: Johnson & Johnson (JAJ) DATE: 2018 Jan 31 DOC#: JAJ021 DOCUMENT DESCRIPTION: Legal - Deposition of Frederick Pooley, Ph.D. Frederick Pooley, Ph.D. SUPERIOR COURT OF WASHINGTON FOR KING COUNTY JODY E. RATCLIFF, Plaintiff, v. BORGWARNER MORSE TEC LLC, et al., Defendants. ) ) ) ) ) ) SEA ) ) ) ) WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 31, 2018 Page 1 No.16-2-18128-7 Videotaped Discovery Deposition of Frederick Pooley, Ph.D., held at the offices of Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe LLP, 51 West 52nd Street, New York, New York, commencing at 9:33 a.m., on the above date, before Carrie A. Campbell, Registered Diplomate Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter, Illinois, California & Texas Certified Shorthand Reporter, Missouri & Kansas Certified Court Reporter. GOLKOW LITIGATION SERVICES 877.370.DEPS deps@golkow.com Golkow Technologies, Inc. 1.877.370.DEPS Frederick Pooley, Ph.D. 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 L A N IER L A W FIR M , P.C. BY: W. M A RK LA NIER, ESQ. 4 w m l@ lanierlaw firm .com 6810 FM 1960 W est 5 Houston, T exas 77069 (713)659-5200 6 7 L A N IER L A W FIR M , P.C. 8 BY : RA CH EL LA N IER, ESQ. rachd.lanier@ lanierlaw firm .com 9 D A RR O N BERQ U IST, ESQ . darron.berquist@ lanierlaw iirm .com 10 SHANNON TULLY, ESQ. shannon.tully@ lanierlaw firm .com 11 ETHAN HORN, ESQ. ethan.hom @ lanierlaw fm n.com 12 126 East 56th Street, Sixth Floor N ew York, N ew Y ork 10022 13 (212)421-2800 14 15 LA N IER L A W FIR M , P.C. BY : LEE E. CIRSCH, ESQ. 16 lec@ lanierlaw finn.com 10866 W ilshire B oulevard, Suite 400 17 Los A ngeles, C alifornia 90024 (310) 277-5100 18 C ounsel for Plaintiffs 19 2 0 ORRICK , H E RRIN G TO N & SU TCLIFFE LLP BY: PET ER A. BICK S, ESQ . 21 pbicks@ orrick.com A LLEGRA A U SILIA NO ON AN , ESQ. 22 anoonan@ orrick.com 51 W est 5 2 n d S treet 23 N ew York, N ew Y ork 10019 (212)506-3742 2 4 Counsel for Defendant Johnson & Johnson 25 Page 2 Page 3 Page 4 1 INDEX 2 Page 3 APPEARANCES.................................. 2 4 EXAMINATIONS 5 BY MR. LANIER................................................. 5 6 7 EXHIBITS 8 No. Description Page 9 1 Lanier handwritten notes 40 10 (Exhibits attached to the deposition.) 11 12 CERTIFICATE....................................................... 48 13 ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF DEPONENT............................... 5 14 ERRATA................................................................ 51 15 LAWYER'S NOTES.................................................. 52 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 5 1 ALSTON & BIRD LLP BY: JOSHUA L. BECKER, ESQ. 2 josh.becker@alston.com 1201 West Peachtree Street, Suite 4900 3 Atlanta, Georgia 30309-3424 (404) 881-7000 4 Counsel for Imerys and Cyprus 5 6 ALSO PRESENT: 7 JAWANA COLEMAN, Lanier Law Firm JUAN WILSON, Lanier Law Firm 8 DAVID EGILMAN ELLAFASSLER 9 JOAN STEFFEN 10 11 V I D E O G R A P H E R : HENRY MARTE, 12 Golkow Litigation Services 13 ---------- 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 V ID EO G R A PH E R : A ll right. W e 2 are n ow on the record. M y nam e is 3 H enry M arte. I'm a videographer for 4 G olkow Litigation Services. 5 Today's date is January 31, 6 2 0 1 8 , and the tim e is 9:33 a.m. This 7 videotaped deposition is being held at 8 51 W est 52nd Street, N ew York, N ew 9 Y ork, in the matter o f R atcliff versus 10 Borgwam er M orse Tec, LLC. The 11 deponent today is Dr. Fred Pooley. 12 A ll appearances w ill be noted 13 on the stenographic record. 14 W ill the court reporter please 15 adm inister the oath to the w itness. 16 17 FR EDERICK POOLEY, Ph.D ,, 1 8 o f law ful age, having been first duly sw orn 1 9 to tell the truth, the w h o le truth and 2 0 n oth in g but the truth, d ep oses and says on 2 1 b eh alf o f the Plaintiff, as follow s: 22 2 3 DIRECT EXAM INATION 2 4 Q U ESTIO N S B Y M R. LANIER: 25 Q. Can you give us your name, 2 (Pages 2 to 5) Golkow Technologies, Inc 1.877.370.DEPS Frederick Pooley, Ph.D. Page 6 Page 8 1 please? 1 you forgot this one. Okay. Just to the best 2 A. Frederick David Pooley. 2 of your memory. 3 Q. All right. And do you still 3 A. My first trial in the US was - 4 live in Wales? 4 I represented the government, I reckon. The 5 A. Yeah. 5 judge - the courts. So - 6 Q. Cardiff? 6 Q. Yeah. 7 A. Yes. ' 7 That's the only time you've 8 Q. You know the TARDIS lands there 8 done that as a court witness, right? 9 a bunch. Have you ever noticed that? 9 A. Yes. 10 A. The - 10 Q. In the US? 11 Q. You're not a Doctor Who fan, 11 A. Yeah. 1 2 are you? 12 Q. Yeah. 13 A. Yes. There's a studio in 13 Nobody used you again after 1 4 Cardiff, yeah, manufacture. 14 that, did they? 15 Q. Yeah. 15 A. Nope. 16 All right. We've got a whole 16 Q. Go ahead. 17 bunch o f people in here. Man, I've got like 17 What else? 1 8 a boatload. I think we could start military 18 A. Johns Manville. A lot o f small 1 9 conflict with as many as we've got. They're 1 9 companies. Eagle-Picher. All cases relating 2 0 mainly here to watch Peter Bicks, but they 2 0 basically to use of crocidolite in products. 2 1 also wanted to meet you. So thank you for 2 1 Q. Yeah, you were big on saying 2 2 your time to give your deposition today. 22 that chrysotile didn't cause meso, weren't 23 Okay? 2 3 you? 24 A. No problem. 24 A. Yes, I believe it's not a very 25 Q. My name is Mark Lanier. I'm 2 5 important mineral as far as the cause of Page 7 Page 9 1 going to ask you a set of questions today 1 mesothelioma. 2 that just are to try and get me some 2 Q. Yeah. Now ju s t- - yeah, well, 3 information because tomorrow we're going to 3 we'll get into that more tomorrow. 4 take a trial deposition of you. Mr. Bicks 4 Any other clients stand out in 5 will go first tomorrow and do his direct, and 5 your mind? 6 then I'll cross examine you tomorrow. So 6 Any more you can remember? 7 tomorrow is the more intense day. 7 A. Well, there are clients in a 8 A. Okay. 8 sense who I represented in a legal sense, you 9 Q. Okay? Today is just like pfft. 9 know, in court or depositions, but I have - 1 0 Okay. These are easy. These are, I'd say 10 I perform a lot of investigations, 1 1 softballs, but you-all don't play that in 11 consultancy via law firms, you know, tissue 1 2 England, do you? 12 specimens and, et cetera, lung fiber burdens, 13 A. No. 13 and I never know who their client is in those 14 Q. All right. How many years have 14 situations. 1 5 you been testifying now? 15 Q. Okay. Have you done work with 16 A. 50, approximately. 1 6 Dennis Paustenbach before? 17 Q. How much money do you think 17 A. Not that I can remember, no. 1 8 you've made over those 50 years? 18 Q. Exponent? 19 A. I probably averaged about 19 A. Exponent? 2 0 $20,000 a year. 20 Q. Yeah. It's a company that does 21 Q. And can you give me to the best 2 1 litigations, support litigation services. 2 2 of your memory a list of the clients you've 22 A. No. 2 3 worked for? 23 Q. How long have you worked for 24 And I know that's taxing, and 2 4 Johnson & Johnson? 2 5 I'm not going to get you tomorrow with, ah, 2 5 A. Oh, I consulted with them over 3 (Pages 6 to 9) Golkow Technologies, Inc. 1.877.370.DEPS Frederick Pooley, Ph.D. Page 10 Page 12 1 the five, six-year period in the 1970s. 1 asbestos work from roughly about 19 --1996 2 Q. And how would you describe your 2 onwards. 3 jobs or job with Johnson & Johnson, what your 3 Q. You said '96. You m eant'66? 4 task was, what you did? 4 A. '66, sorry. 5 A. I was a consultant to them 5 Q. Not a problem. Peter and I 6 based upon the mineralogy of their talc 6 both jumped in on that one. 7 product. 7 So do you remember who showed 8 Q. Who did you report to? 8 up at your doorstep? 9 A. There were ~ it was to their 9 A. Yes. It was this gent Rolle 10 main lab in New Brunswick, and there were 10 from their analytical lab in New Brunswick. 11 about five or six individuals there who I 11 Q. All right. And had he warned 12 communicated with. 12 you he was coming, or was it a cold call? 13 Q. Can you remember any of their 13 A. No, it was a call, you know, to 14 names? 14 see was I in such-such, do you mind if he 15 A. Yeah. One called Tom Shelley, 1 5 came along. And he discussed... 16 Goudie. 16 Q. And the task that he gave you 17 Q. I'm sorry, that last name was? 17 was to examine what? 18 A. Goudie, G-o-u-d-i-e. 18 A. He just wanted to know what the 19 Hildick-Smith. 19 samples contained. 20 Q. Can you spell that? 20 Q. Did he bring the samples with 21 We've got a court reporter. 21 him? 22 Her name is Carrie Campbell. She's probably 2 2 A. Yes, he brought I think two 23 the best in the entire world, but she doesn't 2 3 samples at the time. I can't remember the 24 know how to spell this stuff, and she's going 24 exact - but it was a sample anyway. 25 to spend an hour looking it up if we don't do 2 5 Q. And how did you figure out what Page 11 Page 13 1 it for her now. 1 they contained? 2 So how do we spell that last 2 Do you remember what you did? 3 name? 3 A. Oh, he did mention they were 4 A. Hildick, H-i-l-d-i-c-k, 4 talc, you know, based materials. 5 Hildick-Smith. 5 Q. Yeah. 6 Q. All right. Anybody else you 6 A. Yeah. And, in fact, he did 7 can remember? 7 explain to me that he was from J&J and, you 8 A. There were a few people in a 8 know, they use a lot of mineral powder. He 9 lab there that I sort of have contact with, a 9 just wanted this one. 10 gent called Rolle, Bob Rolle. 10 Q. And did he tell you which talc 11 Q. Rolle, R-o-l-l-y? 11 mine it came from or anything like that? 12 A. Double L --no, R-o-l-l-e. 12 A. At the time, no, he didn't. 13 Q. All right. Anybody else? 13 Q. Did you subsequently find out? 14 A. Not that I can. 14 A. Yes. I believe it was from the 15 Q. And who hired you to do this 15 Vermont mine, the initial sample. 1 6 consulting work for J&J? 16 Q. I'm sorry? 17 A. They turned up at my --some 17 A. The Vermont mine. 18 individuals turned up at my lab in the late 18 Q. Vermont. 1 9 '60s and just asked me whether I would --you 1 9 A. Yeah. 2 0 know, did I look at mineral powders and dust 2 0 Q. Yeah. 2 1 particles and would I like to examine a 21 Okay. And did you analyze that 2 2 sample or two for them. 22 talc? 23 Q. Were you already involved in 23 A. Yes, I produced a result. 2 4 asbestos work at the time? 24 Q. What method did you use? 25 A. Well, yes. Involved with 25 A. At that time it was X-ray 4 (Pages 10 to 13) Golkow Technologies, Inc. 1.877.370.DEPS Frederick Pooley, Ph.D. Page 14 Page 16 1 diffraction and microscopy, electron 1 Q. And you would agree with me as 2 microscopy. 2 an engineer precision is important, isn't it? 3 Q. Do you remember --by the way, 3 A. Yeah. Yes, indeed. 4 have you looked at those test results 4 Q. And not only is precision 5 recently? 5 important, but being thorough and complete is 6 Have you gone back and looked 6 important, too, right? 7 at your notes or anything? 7 A. Yes. 8 A. Yeah. Well, those test results 8 Q. And it's important that you 9 are actually contained in a report which 9 report things accurately, true? 1 0 I've - 10 A. Yes. As best you can, yes. 11 Q. Given to Peter? 11 Q. So if you do, for example, 15 12 A. Given to Peter, yeah. 12 samples and you test 15 samples, you would 13 MR. BICKS: And we gave to you. 13 want to report on 15 samples, right? 14 THE WITNESS: Yeah. Because 14 A. Yes. 15 the same sample was given to about ten 15 Q. Okay. You don't eliminate 16 other consultants to look at. But it 16 those things that aren't favorable; you tell 17 was their way of sort of seeing how 17 the truth, the whole truth, right? 18 people compared. 18 A. Right. 19 QUESTIONS BY MR. LANIER: 19 Q. Okay. How many companies would 20 Q. Okay. Did you find any 20 you say you've tested materials for in your 2 1 contaminants in the talc? 21 life? Hundreds? 22 A. I would have to look at my 22 A. Hundreds. 2 3 report. 23 Q. How many companies have hired 24 Q. And all I'm doing right now, 24 you to test talc? 2 5 I'm just checking your memory. I'm seeing if 25 A. That would be dozens. Page 15 Page 17 1 you've looked at it and how good you got it. 1 Q. How many mines of ~ talc mines 2 Don't worry about it. 2 would you say have sourced the material 3 A. It was mainly talc. 3 you've tested? 4 Q. Yeah. 4 In other words, how many 5 A. With a few impurities. 5 different mines have you tested? 6 Q. With a few what? 6 A. Probably six, six or seven. 7 A. Impurities. 7 Six. 8 Q. Impurities. 8 Q. What do you do for hobbies? 9 I've heard it said that talc is 9 A. I go to work. 1 0 a good delivery system for impurities. 10 Q. You sound like us. 11 Would you agree with that? 11 A. No. I'm a gardener, and I sail 12 A. Talc is talc. I mean, you 12 and probably go to work. 1 3 know, it may be found and associated with 1 3 Q. Yeah. All right. Ever go 14 other mineral particles, but talc particles 14 fishing? 1 5 themselves are --other than --I'm trying -- 15 A. No. 1 6 it's very good at absorbing organics, that's 16 Q. No. Okay. 17 why, you know, the perfumes in talc stick to 17 A. Only off the boat if I'm 1 8 the particles and so you have a pleasant odor 18 sailing. 1 9 if you throw the powder around. 19 Q. Okay. Are you getting paid for 20 Q. Okay. Do you remember --well, 2 0 your time for being here? 2 1 let me ask you this: You are a scientist of 2 1 A. Yes. 2 2 sorts, right? 22 Q. What do you charge? 23 A. I'm basically an engineer. 23 A. For the deposition, $500 an 24 Q. All right. An engineer? 24 hour, and for my general time, $250 an hour. 25 A. Yes. 25 Q. Do you have any active 5 (Pages 14 to 17) Golkow Technologies, Inc. - 1.877.370.DEPS Frederick Pooley, Ph.D. Page 18 Page 20 1 litigation files at this point in your life? 1 opinion testimony. He's here as a 2 A. No. 2 witness to talk about the work that he 3 Q. So this is basically -- Johnson 3 did. But you asked him opinions, so 4 & Johnson right now is the work for you in 4 we don't - 5 terms of litigation; is that fair? 5 MR. LANIER; I gotcha. 6 A. No. 6 MR. BICKS: -- fuss around with 7 Q. What else? 7 that. 8 A. I haven't been involved in any 8 THE WITNESS: No. 9 litigation with Johnson & Johnson since about 9 QUESTIONS BY MR. LANIER: 10 19 - late 1970s. 10 Q. Okay. Is it okay to have 11 Q. Okay. But what I mean is right 11 infants breathe tremolite? 12 now, at this point in your life, 2018, do you 12 Is that a good thing? 13 have anything else that you're working on 13 A. No, I wouldn't have thought so, 14 that's litigation-related other than this 14 no. Any dust is, you know, harmful. 15 Johnson & Johnson matter? 15 Q. But in terms o f the amphiboles, 16 A. Well, the --I tell you, I sent 1 6 do you believe it's a good thing to have 17 you the - 1go to work. What I do because 17 infants breathe any of the amphiboles? 18 I'm an honorary consultant to the laboratory 18 A. As I said to you, all dusts are 19 in the medical school, the section on 1 9 harmful. If you inhale enough o f them and 2 0 cellular pathology, and we run a service 2 0 they accumulate in the lungs, they can cause 2 1 examining lung tissue specimens and other odd 2 1 problems, yeah. 22 biological samples to estimate or to 22 Q. Right, and I'm not fussing 2 3 determine whether there's been any exposure 2 3 that. 2 4 to a harmful substance, and we report these 24 But wouldn't you testify and 2 5 results back. They come in from what are 2 5 haven't you testified that it's worse to Page 19 Page 21 1 called the Coroner's Court in the UK. So the 1 breathe tremolite than it is to breathe talc, 2 coroner will send tissue samples from cases, 2 or is it the same in your mind? 3 and we examine them, report on them and send 3 A. Well, it depends entirely on 4 the result back. 4 the characteristics of the talc, which is 5 So we have a permanent, ongoing 5 contained --if it's contained --the 6 litigation situation, really, because a lot 6 tremolite, rather, the contents of the 7 of these samples are used in litigation to 7 tremolite if it's contained in the talc. 8 determine whether there's been an exposure to 8 For example, counter powder, 9 X or Y, et cetera, and how severe. 9 the majority of particles in a counter talc 10 So, you know, the answer the 10 are nonrespirable. So you may expose 11 your question is really, yeah, there's 11 somebody to a dust cloud generated from a 12 litigation there in the lab all the time. 12 product, but it's only a very small 13 Q. Well, and that makes some 13 proportion of those particles, what we would 14 sense, and I understand what you're saying. 14 call inhalable, respirable, and unlikely to 15 But in terms of being hired to 15 settle in the lungs and subsequently cause a 1 6 come give opinions like you are here -- 16 problem. 17 A. Sure. 17 Q. Okay. So in that sense -- 18 Q. - like you've done before for 18 don't answer for all dusts, but answer 19 I think you told me Eagle-Picher, Johns 19 specifically for asbestos dust. 2 0 Manville, lots of small companies. 20 The amphophile asbestos dust, 21 Do you have anybody else who is 2 1 is it a good thing to have infants breathe 2 2 using you right now in the US in litigation? 2 2 amphophile asbestos like tremolite or 23 MR. BICKS: Mark, I'm not going 2 3 anthophyllite? 24 to fuss with you on the opinion thing, 24 A. On a regular basis, no. 25 but you know that he's not here giving 25 Q. At all? Is it ever a good 6 (Pages 18 to 21) Golkow Technologies, Inc. - 1.877.370.DEPS Frederick Pooley, Ph.D. Page 22 Page 24 1 thing? 1 sample of asbestos. And there are very few 2 A. It's a question of magnitude. 2 commercial samples of tremolite asbestos to 3 Q. And that wasn't my question. 3 actually compare it with. So one really 4 Is it ever a good thing? 4 compares fibrous particles you find in 5 A. No. 5 samples with the commercial forms of the 6 Q. Okay. Thank you. 6 amphophiles. 7 You have children? You have 7 Q. So your testimony is that talc 8 grandchildren? 8 mines are not contaminated with asbestos? 9 A. Sure. 9 A. That's right. 10 Q. You never purposefully had any 10 Q. Okay. If a company is making a 11 of them breathe amphophile asbestos, did you? 11 product that's got asbestos in it or might 12 A. I have no idea. 12 have asbestos in it, should a company warn 13 Q. You sure wouldn't have done it 13 the people who are using the product in your 14 on purpose, would you? 14 mind? 15 A. No, but it's a 15 MR. BICKS: Objection to the 16 natural-occurring mineral and you're going to 16 form. 17 run into some amphophile dust somewhere, 17 THE WITNESS: Well, if there 18 that's... 18 was talc with asbestos in it and 19 Q. But you sure don't want to just 19 somebody was going to put it on the 2 0 bring it in voluntarily, do you? 20 market, it's obvious that you --you 21 A. Oh, no. No. No. 21 would require some warning. 22 Q. All right. Thank you. 2 2 QUESTIONS BY MR. LANIER: 23 Why is talc contaminated with 23 Q. All right. Do you agree that 24 asbestos? Geologically, explain that, 2 4 products should have zero tolerance for 25 please. 2 5 asbestos in them, or is it okay for products Page 23 Page 25 1 A. I don't think it is. O f the 1 to have asbestos in them? 2 samples of commercial talc - and I'm talking 2 A. It really depends on how you 3 really about cosmetic-grade talcs. I can't 3 use the word "asbestos." You know, if you're 4 my hand on my heart and say that I've ever 4 using it to describe dust particles, which 5 found one that was contaminated with 5 are similar in morphology to commercial forms 6 asbestos. 6 of asbestos, then obviously it's -- you know, 7 I have looked at samples of 7 it's logical to use that definition. 8 industrial-grade talc where there have been 8 But to compare it with dusts 9 some particles which one would consider 9 which contain only the mineral and not the 1 0 possible, you know, problems. 10 form of particles, it's, you know... 11 Q. Let's just deal with that. 11 Q. Well, let me ask it this way: 12 Why would industrial-grade 12 Can you tell us if there is a safe level for 1 3 talc --why would a talc mine of talc also 13 amphophiles, asbestiform amphophiles? 14 have veins or portions of asbestos in it? 14 A. Asbestiform? Asbestos .15 Just geologically. I'm looking 15 amphophiles? 1 6 for the geologic explanation. 16 Q. Yeah. 17 A. Most talc mines don't have 17 A. I would say yes. 1 8 asbestos in them. 18 Q. There is a safe level? 19 Q. Do any? 19 A. Yes. Depending upon the 20 A. They may have the mineral, 20 mineral. 2 1 tremolite, for example, but it's not 21 Q. Wow. 2 2 asbestiform. And taking --I'm using 22 Do you have any -- what 2 3 asbestiform in a way which compares the 23 independent scientific organizations back up 2 4 morphology of dust particles produced from 24 that opinion that there's a safe level that's 2 5 material in a mine compared to a commercial 25 not carcinogenic? 7 (Pages 22 to 25) Golkow Technologies, Inc. - 1.877.370.DEPS Frederick Pooley, Ph.D. Page 26 Page 28 1 Anybody? 1 Doesn't ring a bell? 2 A. It's -- that's my opinion. 2 A. No. 3 Q. Right. 3 MR. BICKS:. Objection to the 4 I'm just asking if it's 4 form. 5 based - - 1know you did work for IARC. I 5 QUESTIONS BY MR. LANIER: 6 know you've done work for others. And I'm 6 Q. Okay. Do talc particles 7 asking if there's any nonindustry scientific 7 translocate in the body? 8 entity that agrees that there is some safe 8 A. As far as I'm aware, no. 9 threshold level of asbestiform amphophile 9 Q. Do asbestos particles 10 exposure where no one needs to be concerned 10 translocate in the body? 11 about cancer? 11 A. As far as I'm aware, no. 12 A. Are you talking about a 12 They will leave the body. The 13 situation or an organization? 13 vast majority of the particles you may 14 Q. An organization. 14 inhale, talc or asbestos, will normally leave 15 A. Well, there are very few of 15 the body via the back of your throat when you 16 these organizations around. 16 swallow them. 17 Q. Okay. 17 Q. Huh. 18 A. But essentially if you go to 18 What do you mean when you use 19 some location, some countries, Turkey, for 19 the term "lathlike" or "lathlike," 2 0 example, tremolite is mined extensively in 20 1-a-t-h-l-i-k-e? 2 1 middle Turkey and - on a very small scale, 2 1 A. It's a term which is often used 22 but it's used extensively in stucco 22 to define an object which is fairly longer 2 3 manufacture. And in those situations, there 23 than it's wide and thinner than it's wide. 24 are locations where people have been working 24 Q. So it applies to more than an 2 5 with the mineral for many, many years and 2 5 asbestos fiber or something like that; it can Page 27 Page 29 1 employing it and there has been no dramatic 1 apply to all sorts of different types of 2 biological response. 2 fibers? 3 Q. Okay. I'm not sure if you 3 A. It's a general description 4 understood what I was asking. 4 of-- 5 I'm talking about what 5 Q. Sizing? ' 6 organization says that there is some safe 6 A. Of objects of that sort of, 7 level, some magic cancer threshold level, for 7 yeah, shape. 8 asbestiform amphophiles? 8 Q. What do you mean when you use 9 A. Oh, I don't think any 9 the term "fibrous" when you're talking about 1 0 organization. There are no organizations, we 10 different things you've analyzed? 1 1 shall say that. 11 A. It refers to the fact that when 12 Q. Okay. Thank you. 12 you look at the particles there appear to be 13 A. Yeah. They are very few and 13 quite a few - quite a large proportion of 14 far between, the organizations I'm saying. 14 them are longer than they wanted. 15 Q. Okay. Speaking of 15 Q. Is that relevant on whether or 1 6 organizations, did you ever do any work for 16 not you're determining if they're 17 or with or in conjunction with the Industrial 17 asbestiform? 18 Hygiene Foundation? 18 A. Well, you've got to be longer 19 A. I'm not familiar with that 19 than you're wide to be asbestiform because 2 0 title. 20 you're comparing your particle with a 21 Q. Okay. That was --the 21 commercial asbestos mineral. 2 2 Industrial Hygiene Foundation was mainly in 22 Q. All right. Define for me what 2 3 the United States and Canada, and it kind of 23 you mean when you talk about something being 2 4 quit its activities in the '80s or so, '70s, 24 asbestiform. 2 5 but it's been active since the late '30s. 25 A. It has a similar shape to 8 (Pages 26 to 29) Golkow Technologies, Inc. 1.877.370.DEPS Frederick Pooley, Ph.D. Page 30 Page 32 1 particles which may be formed from commercial 1 type of mineral. So, for example, if I 2 so-called asbestos minerals. 2 compared that particle with crocidolite, 3 Q. Does that mean that it would be 3 there would be a dramatic difference. Okay. 4 fibrous or lathlike? 4 If I compared that particle 5 A. There may be, yeah, some 5 with, say, anthophyllite, there would be some 6 lathlike mixed with ordinary fibers which are 6 similarity. The anthophyllite fibers are 7 sort of equally dimensional in terms of 7 normally thicker and longer than crocidolite, 8 diameters. 8 which are long and thin. 9 Q. If you've got ~ well, define 9 Q. So is crocidolite always 10 for me asbestos, please. 10 asbestiform? 11 A. I can't. 11 A. No. 12 Q. Why not? 12 Q. Well, that's what I'm trying to 13 A. Well, it's one of these words 13 get at is what makes it asbestiform, and what 14 that has no meaning. It's a commercial term 14 I'm hearing from you is, well, it's 15 used to indicate a material which would be 15 asbestiform if it's similar to something else 16 used in certain situations. And as grown up 16 that we're going to call asbestiform. 17 as it were, it's like saying potatoes and 17 Pretend I know nothing about 18 you're not really saying which type of potato 18 this. Tell me what you mean when you say 19 or what form of potato, sweet potato. It's a 19 asbestiform, please. 2 0 general term. 20 A. That you have a sample with 21 Q. Huh. 21 particles - containing particles, fibrous 22 Do you eat potatoes? 22 particles, which have dimensions which are 23 A. Yeah. I grow them, yeah. 23 similar to those produced from samples of 24 Q. Do you go like into a pub and 24 commercial mineral which are used in industry 25 say, "I'll have the this-and-this with a side 25 and are referred to as asbestos. Page 31 Page 33 1 of potatoes"? 1 Q. So asbestiform means - all 2 A. No. A packet of crisps, 2 right. And maybe it will help. 3 they're made from potatoes. 3 Can you see the screen down 4 Q. Do you ask them on your crisps 4 there if I write on here? 5 what kind of potatoes they used? 5 A. Sure. 6 A. Oh, well, crisps are normally 6 Q. Okay. So I've got a piece of 7 manufactured from particular varieties of 7 tremolite. 8 potato. 8 A. Sure. 9 Q. A russet or what? 9 Q. And so I've got a question I 10 A. Oh, I couldn't give you the -- 10 need to ask on that piece of tremolite, and 1 1 but they're potatoes which grow with a 11 here's my question: Is it asbestiform? 1 2 suitable shape to manufacture crisps. 12 Are you with me? 13 Q. All right. Now, how do you 13 A. Yeah. 14 tell if a piece of - not a piece, a particle 14 Q. Now, your answer to that is 1 5 of tremolite is asbestiform or not? 1 5 going to be: Is it the same size or similar 16 A. Well, if you're going to say 16 in dimensions, I think was your language, 17 this tremolite is asbestiform, you would 17 similar in dimensions to commercial 1 8 obviously be measuring it to determine its 18 tremolite. 1 9 length and diameter and then compare those 1 9 Right? Is that the question? 2 0 values with fibers or particles produced from 2 0 A. No. 2 1 commercial so-called asbestos products. 21 Q. Is that the answer? 22 Q. When you use the word like 22 A. Commercial asbestos. You're 2 3 "asbestos," though, that word by you has no 23 talking about asbestiform, not tremolite 2 4 meaning because I asked you what it meant. 2 4 form. In fact, there isn't --I don't know 25 A. Well, you're not defining the 2 5 of any source of commercial tremolite. 9 (Pages 30 to 33) Golkow Technologies, Inc. - 1.877.370.DEPS Frederick Pooley, Ph.D. Page 34 Page 36 1 Q. I thought you told me in Turkey 1 that you determine if it's asbestiform by 2 they mine tremolite. 2 whether or not that single particle, fiber, 3 A. Oh, yes. 3 is similar in dimensions to commercial fibers 4 Q. Use it commercially? 4 that are broken down and separated and 5 A. They have, yes. 5 non-bundlized? 6 Q. Okay. Well, then you just said 6 A. Yeah, so they're airborne. 7 I don't know of any source of commercial 7 Yeah, airborne commercial asbestos fiber, 8 tremolite. 8 yes. 9 Isn't Turkey a source? 9 Q. Huh. 10 A. But it's not sold on the market 10 And so you'd be looking for on 11 as tremolite. In fact, they turn it into 11 tremolite to determine if it's asbestiform, 12 clay tiles. 12 you would be looking to see is it similar in 13 Q. Okay. So if I want to know if 13 dimensions to commercial tremolite, but 14 that tremolite is asbestiform, I'd want to 14 you've told me there is no commercial 15 know is it similar in dimensions to 15 tremolite? 1 6 commercial asbestos. And when I asked you 16 A. Virtually, no. 17 what you mean by asbestos, you said it has no 17 Q. So what are you comparing it 18 meaning. 18 to? 19 A. That's right. 19 A. Well, you would compare your 20 MR. BICKS: Objection to the 2 0 tremolite with commercial amphophile 21 form. 2 2 QUESTIONS BY MR. LANIER: 31 asbestos. 22 Q. So but there's such a 23 Q. So I'm a little bit confused on 2 3 difference between crocidolite and 2 4 how you get to determine if tremolite is 2 4 anthophyllite or amosite or - 2 5 asbestiform. 25 A. Yes, there's big differences, Page 35 Page 37 1 A. Well, if the particles that 1 but they would be the yardstick by which you 2 produced at that particular location, do they 2 would define whether or not that particle is 3 compare with fibers or particles produced 3 asbestiform or not. 4 from a commercial asbestos mine. 4 Q. So what dimensions will make it 5 So you would have to measure 5 asbestiform? 6 the particles and compare the size 6 Are there some set dimensions? 7 distributions, simply. 7 A. Yes, you can sort of ~ you can 8 Q. But let's say you've got it in 8 look at the average dimensions of amosite, 9 tissue. 9 airborne dust and look at the average 10 A. Yeah. 10 dimensions of crocidolite and airborne dust 11 Q. You're looking at a particle in 11 and you can take your fiber and look at its 12 tissue. Now, you know by definition if it's 12 dimensions and you can say, "Oh, it sits 1 3 in the tissue, it's been respirated; it's 13 within this range of dimensions." 14 been -- 14 Q. And is that a 3 to 1 ratio or 15 A. Sure. 15 is it -- 16 Q. So we know it's not a bundle. 16 A. No. 17 We know it's a single fiber, right? 17 Q. What are the dimensions? 18 A. Right. 18 A. The dimension is a length and 19 Q. Because you don't respirate 1 9 the diameter. 2 0 bundles; you respirate single fibers? 20 Q. All right. What is the average 21 A. You can respirate bundles. 21 length range and average diameter range that 22 Q. But they lodge up so high it's 22 makes it an amphophile --I mean, that makes 2 3 not going to go down, right? 2 3 it an asbestiform? 24 A. Right. 24 A. It depends on the source of the 25 Q. All right. So you're saying 2 5 amphophile. 10 (Pages 34 to 37) Golkow Technologies, Inc. - 1.877.370.DEPS Frederick Pooley, Ph.D. Page 38 Page 40 1 Q. Okay. Give me some examples. 1 Q. What are your average sizes for 2 A. If we took Australian 2 that? 3 crocidolite and you'd say that the fibers -- 3 A. Oh, for Calidria, you very 4 if the fibers were within 1 to 10 microns -- 4 rarely get fibers over 5 microns in length, 5 1 to 30 microns in length and with 5 but diameters down to, again, .1, .2 o f a 6 diameter - .15 to .06 in diameter and you 6 micron. 7 had a fiber and you're comparing it, then you 7 Q. .1? 8 would say this is obviously... 8 A. .2 o f a micron in diameter. 9 MR.BICKS: I think he's 9 Q. I think we've got it there. 10 getting distracted with the -- 10 I'll mark this as Exhibit 1 to 11 MR. LANIER: Sorry. 11 your deposition just as a demonstrative so 12 QUESTIONS BY MR. LANIER: 12 we've got the notes. 13 Q. Keep going. I'm listening. 13 (Pooley Exhibit 1 marked for 14 My side is worried that maybe 14 identification.) 15 you misspoke when you said .15 to .06 microns 1 5 QUESTIONS BY MR. LANIER: 16 in diameter. 16 Q. Testing methods, tell me what 17 A. Diameter, yeah. 17 are the different ways to test to see if a 18 Q. Okay. 18 product has asbestos in it. 19 A. That's Australian crocidolite, 19 Talc, what are the different 20 yeah. 2 0 methods? 21 Q. So that would tell you if 21 A. Well, it really depends what 22 you're comparing it to Australian 2 2 you're going to be testing it for. 23 crocidolite. 23 Q. All right. I've got a talc 24 What you if you compare it 24 sample and I want you to test this talc 25 instead to a South African asbestos? 2 5 sample for asbestos. Page 39 Page 41 1 A. It's a little different. It's 1 What are the different methods 2 still 30 microns in length and because we 2 you can use that are acceptable and good? 3 don't normally find airborne amphophile 3 A. Well, there's only one method 4 asbestos fibers longer than 30, you do get 4 to establish whether you have fibers which 5 the odd one or two, but for South African 5 are asbestiform, and that's to use a 6 material instead of being --it would be the 6 microscopic method. 7 same length range but a slightly larger 7 Q. But you can't look at the whole 8 diameter range, something like .15, .2, 8 sample of talc, can you? 9 again, down to .06, .07. 9 A. It depends how you prepare it. 10 Q. What about American asbestos 10 Q. All right. Let's start then 1 1 and Canadian asbestos, what are their sizes? 11 with preparation. 12 A. Well, you're talking about 12 A. You don't have to look at the 1 3 serpentine asbestoses now, not amphophile. 13 whole sample. 14 Q. Okay. 14 Q. All right. Tell me how to 15 A. And there are lots o f fibers 15 prepare the talc for examination. 16 around that are similar in dimensions to 16 A. Well, you're examining it 17 serpentine asbestos. 17 because of its possible disease potential. 18 Q. What about though -- 18 Q. Right. 1 9 serpentine, you're talking about the 19 So how do you prepare the talc 2 0 crocidolite that's spherical? 20 so that you can examine it? 21 A. Yeah. 21 A. You would take a sample o f the 22 Q. What about the Calidria 22 talc carefully so it's representative of the 2 3 crocidolite that's not spherical but is 23 mass, and you would prepare a dust cloud from 2 4 straight? 24 it. 25 A. Yeah. 25 Q. And how do you prepare a dust 11 (Pages 38 to 41) Golkow Technologies, Inc. - 1.877.370.DEPS Frederick Pooley, Ph.D. Page 42 Page 44 1 cloud? 1 A. For airborne dusts, you would 2 A. Put some on your hands and blow 2 use what is called the direct technique and 3 or you can put it in a container and shake 3 coat the filter with carbon, which would trap 4 it. 4 all of the dust you've pulled down onto the 5 Q. And then what do you do after 5 filter, and you remove the filter and you 6 you prepare a dust cloud? 6 have a carbon film with the dust particles 7 A. Then you sample the dust you've 7 embedded in the carbon film for you to look 8 created to find out whether or not you've got 8 at. You could look at as many as you wanted 9 or managed to entrap or --you know, entrap 9 and scan to establish, you know, A, have I 10 fibrous particles in the dust cloud or 10 got any fibers here or any other particles 11 fibrous particles are carried over into the 11 you may be looking for; and, B, what is the 12 dust cloud, if there are any fibrous 12 proportion distribution of these particles in 1 3 particles there to start with. 13 the dust. 14 Q. Is that --what is your error 14 It's very accurate. 15 rate? 15 Q. What type of scanning device 16 A. Error rate? 1 6 are you using at that point? 17 Q. Yeah. 17 A. You use a transmission --if 18 In other words, if you're going 18 you wanted ~ if you're looking for fine 1 9 to sample a dust cloud, how do you know that 19 asbestiform fibers, you've got to use a 2 0 you're truly getting a representation of all 2 0 machine which would define asbestiform 2 1 of the minerals present or all of the 21 fibers, fine asbestiform fibers, so a 2 2 particles present? 22 transmission electron microscope. 23 A. Well, if you start off with a 23 Q. A TEM machine? 2 4 fine powder and you suspend a gram or 24 A. Yes. 2 5 whatever of that material and then you sample 2 5 Q. And then you examine with a TEM Page 43 Page 45 1 it, it's totally mixed and there's no reason 1 the entire carbon film with every element on 2 why the sample you take should not be truly 2 it? 3 representative of the cloud you've taken, 3 A. It depends how accurate you 4 otherwise you're not using the right sampling 4 want to be. You can look at one particle, 5 technique. 5 but that's not very accurate, or you can look 6 But that's - that's the basis 6 at two, it's a little bit more accurate. So 7 for all airborne test sampling. You go out 7 you carry on and build up an accuracy until 8 and use test samplers to take a sample from 8 you've got - ( 9 the air knowing that the sample you take is 9 Q. Until you feel like you've done 1 0 going to be representative of that location 10 a good enough job? 1 1 or whatever it might be in terms of the 11 A. Sure. 12 particles, et cetera, it contains. 12 And it's very, very easy to -- 13 Q. When you sample the dust, how 13 in a preparation like that to actually 14 do you grab it? 14 distinguish a fiber from any other nonfibrous 15 A. Onto a filter. 15 particle. So fibers lend themselves to very, 16 Q. You just run a filter through 16 very detailed detection. 17 the air? 17 Q. Stupid question because I'm not 18 A. No, pull the air through a 18 an engineer: How do you know that there's 1 9 filter. 19 not a fiber on top of a fiber? 20 Q. Pull the air through a filter. 20 A. Well, that comes with a testing 21 And then how do you get the 21 technique and building up a technique: You 2 2 dust off the filter? 22 know, how long should I sample for, how much 23 A. You prepare it to produce a 23 should I collect. That comes with 2 4 microscopic preparation. 24 experience. 25 Q. How do you do that, though? 25 Q. A lot of room for variation in 12 (Pages 42 to 45) Golkow Technologies, Inc. 1.877.370.DEPS Frederick Pooley, Ph.D. Page 46 Page 48 1 this, isn't there? 2 A. No. It is performed accurately 3 and it's a very, very simple technique as 4 long as you play by the rules, as it were, 5 you know. 1 C E RTIFICA TE 2 3 I, C A R R IE A . C A M PB E L L , R egistered D ipiom ate R eporter, C ertified R ealtim e 4 R eporter and C ertified S horthand R eporter, do hereby certify th at prior to the com m encem ent 5 o f the exam ination, F rederick P ooley, Ph.D . w as duly sw orn by m e to testify to the truth, 6 Q. So if I've got someone who 7 plays by the rules and they find asbestos in 8 talc, you wouldn't fuss with those results 6 the w hole truth and nothing but the truth. 7 I D O F U R T H E R C E R T IFY that the foregoing is a v erbatim tran scrip t o f the 8 testim ony as taken stenographically by and before m e at the tim e, place and on th e date 9 because there's no room for error as long as 1 0 they're competent, right? 9 hereinbefore set forth, to the best o f m y a b ility . 10 MR. BICKS: Object to the form. 1 1 I D O F U R T H E R C E R T IF Y th a t I am 11 neither a relative nor em ployee n or attorney 12 THE WITNESS: Well, yeah, there n or counsel o f any o f the parties to this 13 is --you can introduce an error 12 action, and th at I am neither a relative nor em ployee o f such attorney o r counsel, and 14 because you've then still got to - 15 you define the fiber, but you've got 13 that I am not financially interested in the action. 14 16 to define whether or not it's an 15 17 asbestos-type fiber. 18 So it's the analysis of the 17 C A R R IE A . C A M PB EL L, N C R A R egistered D ipiom ate R eporter 18 C ertified R ealtim e R eporter 19 specimen and the expertise that you 20 use. You know, for example, am i C alifornia C ertified S horthand 19 R eporter #13921 M issouri C ertified C ourt R eporter #859 21 measuring it correctly; am I measuring 20 Illinois C ertified Shorthand R eporter #084-004229 22 its chemical composition correctly. 21 T exas C ertified S horthand R eporter #9328 23 You know, you may perform diffraction; 22 K ansas C ertified C ourt R eporter #1715 N otary Public 24 am I looking at the diffraction 25 pattern and interpreting that 23 D ated; Januaiy 3 1 ,2 0 1 8 24 25 Page 47 Page 49 1 correctly. l INSTRUCTIONS TO WITNESS 2 QUESTIONS BY MR. LANIER: 2 3 Q. How accurate is X-ray 3 Please read your deposition over 4 diffraction? 4 carefully and make any necessary corrections. 5 A. X-ray diffraction is very crude 5 You should state the reason in the 6 in comparison with a TEM. 6 appropriate space on the errata sheet for any 7 Q. Are you familiar with a 7 corrections that are made. 8 concentration method of testing? 8 After doing so, please sign the 9 A. It doesn't ring a bell. 9 errata sheet and date it. You are signing 10 MR. LANIER: Okay. That's all 10 same subject to the changes you have noted on 11 I've got. I'll see you tomorrow. 11 the errata sheet, which will be attached to 12 Thank you. 12 your deposition. 13 VIDEOGRAPHER: I should go off 13 It is imperative that you return 14 the record, right? 14 the original errata sheet to the deposing 15 MR. LANIER: Yeah. 15 attorney within thirty (30) days of receipt 16 VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay. The time 16 of the deposition transcript by you. If you 17 is 10:21 a.m. Going off the record. 17 fail to do so, the deposition transcript may 18 (Deposition concluded at 10:21 a.m.) 18 be deemed to be accurate and may be used in 19 19 court. 20 20 21 21 22 22 23 23 24 24 25 25 13 (Pages 46 to 49) Golkow Technologies, Inc. 1.877.370.DEPS Frederick Pooley, Ph.D. P age 50 P age 52 1 ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF DEPONENT 1 2 3 2 4 I, .d o hereby certify that I have read the foregoing 3 5 pages and that the same is a correct 4 transcription o f the answers given by me to 5 6 the questions therein propounded, except for 6 the corrections or changes in form or 7 7 substance, if any, noted in the attached 8 Errata Sheet. 9 8 9 10 10 11 11 12 12 13 Frederick Pooley, Ph.D. DATE 14 13 15 14 16 15 Subscribed and sworn to before me this 16 day o f , 20 17 17 M y com m ission expires: 18 18 19 19 Notary Public 20 20 21 21 22 22 23 23 24 24 25 25 P age 51 LAW YER'S NOTES PAGE LINE "i 1 ERRATA 2 3 PAGE LINE CHANGE 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 14 (Pages 50 to 52) Golkow Technologies, Inc. 1.877.370.DEPS Frederick Pooley, Ph.D. Page 53 A ability 48:9 absorbing 15:16 acceptable 41:2 accum ulate 20:20 accuracy 45:7 accurate 44:14 45:3,5,6 47:3 49:18 accu rately 16:9 46:2 acknow ledgm ... 4:13 50:1 action 48:12,13 active 17:25 27:25 activities 27:24 adm inister 5:15 african 38:25 39:5 age5:18 agree 15:11 16:1 24:23 agrees 26:8 ah 7:25 ahead 8:16 air 43:9,17,18 43:20 airborn e 36:6,7 37:9,10 39:3 43:7 44:1 al 1:6 allegra 2:21 alston 3:1,2 am erican 39:10 am osite 36:24 37:8 am phiboles 20:15,17 am phophile 21:20*22 22:11 22:17 26:9 36:20 37:22,25 39:3,13 am phophiles 24:6 25:13,13 25:15 27:8 analysis 46:18 analytical 12:10 an alyze 13:21 analyzed 29:10 a n g e les2 :1 7 a n o o n a n 2 :2 2 answ er 19:10 21:18,18 33:14 33:21 answ ers 50:5 a n th o p h y llite 21:23 32:5,6 36:24 an yb od y 11:6,13 19:21 26:1 anyw ay 12:24 appear 29:12 ap p earan ces 4:3 5:12 applies 28:24 apply 29:1 a p p r o p r ia te 49:6 approxim ately 7:16 aren t 16:16 a sb e stifo r m 23:22,23 25:13 25:14 26:9 27:8 29:17,19 29:24 31:15,17 32:10,13,15,16 3 2 :1 9 3 3 :1 ,1 1 33:23 34:14,25 36:1,11 37:3,5 37:23 41:5 44:19,20,21 asb estos 11:24 12:1 21:19,20 21:22 22:11,24 23:6,14,18 2 4 :1 ,2 ,8 ,1 1 ,1 2 24:18,25 25:1 25:3,6,14 28:9 28:14,25 29:21 30:2,10 31:21 31:23 32:25 33:22 34:16,17 35:4 36:7,21 38:25 39:4,10 39:11,17 40:18 40:25 46:7 asbestoses 39:13 asbestostype 46:17 asked 11:19 20:3 31:24 34:16 asking 26:4,7 27:4 associated 15:13 a tla n ta 3 :3 attached 4:10 49:11 50:7 attorney 48:11 48:12 49:15 a u silia 2 :2 1 australian 38:2 38:19,22 average 37:8,9 37:20,21 40:1 averaged 7:19 aw are 28:8,11 B b 44:11 b ack 14:6 18:25 19:4 25:23 28:15 b ased 10:6 13:4 26:5 basically 8:20 15:23 18:3 basis 21:24 43:6 b eck er 3:1,2 b e h a lf 5:21 believe 8:24 13:14 20:16 b ell 28:1 47:9 b erq u ist 2:9,9 b e st 7:21 8:1 10:23 16:10 48:9 bicks 2:20 6:20 7:4 14:13 19:23 20:6 24:15 28:3 34:20 38:9 46:11 b ig 8:21 36:25 b iological 18:22 27:2 b ird 3:1 bit 34:23 45:6 blow 42:2 b oat 17:17 boatload 6:18 bob 11:10 body 28:7,10,12 28:15 b o rg w a rn er 1:6 5:10 boulevard 2:16 breathe 20:11 20:17 21:1,1 21:21 22:11 bring 12:20 22:20 broken 36:4 b rou gh t 12:22 brunsw ick 10:10 12:10 build 45:7 buildin g 45:21 b u n ch 6:9,17 bundle 35:16 bundles 35:20 35:21 burdens 9:12 C c 2 :l,3 ,7 ,1 5 calidria 39:22 40:3 California 1:18 2:17 48:18 call 12:12,13 21:14 32:16 called 10:15 11:10 19:1 44:2 Cam pbell 1:16 10:22 48:3,17 ' Canada 27:23 Canadian 39:11 ! cancer 26:11 27:7 cant 12:23 23:3 30:1141:7 carbon 44:3,6,7 45:1 c a r c in o g e n ic 25:25 C ardiff 6:6,14 c a r e fu lly 4 1 :2 2 i* 49:4 carrie 1:16 10:22 48:3,17 carried 42:11 carry 45:7 cases 8:19 19:2 cause 8:22,25 20:20 21:15 cellular 18:20 certain 30:16 certificate 4:12 48:1 | certified 1:17,19 1:20 48:3,4,18 > 48:18,19,20,21 1 48:21 5 certify 48:4,7,10 ? 50:4 cetera 9:12 19:9 f 43:12 i change 51:3 changes 49:10 50:6 f c h a r a c te r istic s 21:4 charge 17:22 checkin g 14:25 i chem ical 46:22 children 22:7 1 chrysotile 8:22 j c ir sc h 2 :1 5 j clay 34:12 client 9:13 clients 7:22 9:4 Golkow Technologies, Inc. - 1.877.370.DEPS Frederick Pooley, Ph.D. Page 54 9:7 cloud21:ll 41:23 42:1,6 42:10,12,19 43:3 coat 44:3 cold 12:12 coleman 3:7 collect 45:23 com 1:23 2:4,8,9 2:10,11,16,21 2:22 3:2 come 18:25 19:16 comes 45:20,23 coming 12:12 commencement 48:4 commencing 1:15 commercial 23:2,25 24:2,5 25:5 29:21 30:1,14 31:21 32:24 33:17,22 33:25 34:7,16 35:4 36:3,7,13 36:14,20 commercially 34:4 commission 50:17 communicated 10:12 companies 8:19 16:19,23 19:20 company 9:20 24:10,12 compare 24:3 25:8 31:19 35:3,6 36:19 38:24 compared 14:18 23:25 32:2,4 compares 23:23 24:4 comparing 29:20 36:17 38:7,22 comparison 47:6 competent 46:10 complete 16:5 composition 46:22 concentration 47:8 concerned 26:10 concluded 47:18 conflict 6:19 confused 34:23 conjunction 27:17 consider 23:9 consultancy 9:11 consultant 10:5 18:18 consultants 14:16 consulted 9:25 consulting 11:16 contact 11:9 contain 25:9 contained 12:19 13:1 14:9 21:5 21:5,7 container 42:3 containing 32:21 contains 43:12 contaminants 14:21 contaminated 22:23 23:5 24:8 contents 21:6 coroner 19:2 coroners 19:1 correct 50:5 corrections 49:4 49:7 50:6 correctly 46:21 46:22 47:1 cosmeticgrade 23:3 couldnt31:10 counsel 2:18,24 3:4 48:11,12 counter 21:8,9 countries 26:19 county 1:1 court 1:1,20 5:14 8:8 9:9 10:21 19:1 48:19,21 49:19 courts 8:5 created 42:8 crisps 31:2,4,6 31:12 crocidolite 8:20 32:2,7,9 36:23 37:10 38:3,19 38:23 39:20,23 cross 7:6 crude 47:5 Cyprus 3:4 D d 1:12 3:11 5:17 48:5 50:12 darron 2:9,9 date 1:15 5:5 48:8 49:9 50:12 dated 48:23 david 3:8 6:2 day 7:7 50:16 days 49:15 deal 23:11 deemed 49:18 defendant 2:24 defendants 1:7 define 28:22 29:22 30:9 37:2 44:20 46:15,16 defining 31:25 definition 25:7 35:12 delivery 15:10 demonstrative 40:11 dennis9:16 depending 25:19 depends 21:3 25:2 37:24 40:21 41:9 45:3 deponent 4:13 5:11 50:1 deposes 5:20 deposing 49:14 deposition 1:11 4:10 5:7 6:22 7:4 17:23 40:11 47:18 49:3,12,16,17 depositions 9:9 deps 1:23,23 describe 10:2 25:4 description 4:8 29:3 detailed 45:16 detection 45:16 determine 18:23 19:8 31:18 34:24 36:1,11 determining 29:16 device 44:15 diameter 31:19 37:19,21 38:6 38:6,16,17 39:8 40:8 diameters 30:8 40:5 didnt8:22 13:12 difference 32:3 36:23 differences 36:25 different 17:5 29:1,10 39:1 40:17,19 41:1 diffraction 14:1 46:23,24 47:4 47:5 dimension 37:18 I dimensional I 30:7 dimensions f j 32:22 33:16,17 ! 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