Document 2jDaDoO2r05QX5Rk69BM9o4V5

1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE SUPERIOR COURT OF CALIFORNIA COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO ROBERT GRAHN, ET AL., : V. : ABEX CORPORATION, ET AL.,: 922682 G. GRAHN V. ABEX, ET AL. NO. 922678 J. PURCELL V. ABEX, ET AL. 925509 G. ROSS V. ABEX, ET AL. 889978 F . SMOTHERS V. ABEX, ET AL 863042 W. BRIGHT V. ABEX, ET AL. 931047 D. JENNINGS V. ABEX, ET AL. 910359 L. BANKS V. ABEX, ET AL 915341 A. LECCE V. ABEX, ET AL 920265 E . WALLER V. ABEX, ET AL. 934412 DEPOSITION OF JAMES HAMMOND VOLUME I May 18, 1992 2900 Smith, Suite 104 r Houston, Texas nma copy NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003466 2 1 Marie Bulfinch 2 Texas CSR No. 3748/Notary Public 3 Nell M* cCallum & Associates, Inc. 4 2900 Smith, Suite 104 5 Houston, Texas 77006 6 (713) 523-3767 7 8 ******** 9 APPEARANCES: 10 For the Plaintiff: 11 James L. Hand 12 Brayton, Gisvold & Harley 13 999 Grant Ave. 14 Novato, California 94948 15 16 For the Defendant Exxon and James Hammond: 17 Glenna Kyle 18 AND 19 Donna J. Petrone 20 Exxon Company, U.S.A. 21 800 Bell Avenue 22 Houston, Texas 77002 23 24 25 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003467 3 1 For the Defendant Chevron U.S.A., Inc. 2 Shell Oil Company: 3 Bradley P. Kaplan 4 Sedgwick, Detert, Moran & Arnold 5 One Embarcadero Center, Sixteenth Floor 6 San Francisco, California 94111 7 8 For the Defendant Foster Wheeler Corp.: 9 Ashley C. Plunkett 10 Adams and Reese 11 4500 One Shell Square 12 New Orleans, Louisiana 70139 13 14 For the Defendant Mine Safety Appliances 15 Company: 16 Charles S. Bishop 17 Jedeikin, Green, Sprague & Bishop 18 300 Montgomery Street, Suite 450 19 San Francisco, California 94104 20 21 For the Defendant Plant Insulation Company: 22 John R. Wallace 23 Jackson & Wallace 24 33 New Montgomery Street, 18th Floor 25 San Francisco, California 94105 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003468 4 1 2 Also Present: 3 Dorine R. Kohn 4 Bjork, Lawrence, Poeschl & Kohn 5 The Ross House 6 483 Ninth Street 7 Oakland, California 94607 8 9 Steven Kazan 10 Kazan, McClain, Edises & Simon 11 171 Twelfth Street, Third Floor 12 Oakland, California 94607 13 14 ******** 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003469 5 1 Deposition of JAMES HAMMOND, taken on 2 May 19, 1992, at Nell McCallum & Associates, 3 2900 Smith, Suite 104, Houston, Texas, commencing 4 at 12:50 p.m., before Marie Bulfinch, CSR No. 3748 5 and Notary Public in and for the State of Texas, 6 pursuant to Subpoena. The witness may read and 7 sign the deposition before any notary public. 8 INDEX 9 10 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE 11 12 Mr. Hand 15 13 14 15 ******** 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003470 6 1 EXHIBITS 2 3 NO. DESCRIPTION 4 1 - Notice of deposition of James 5 Hammond - 5 pages PAGE 21 6 7 2 - Subpoena and attachment of 20 document 8 requests - 7 pages 22 9 10 3 - Amended notice of deposition of 11 James Hammond - 9 pages 22 12 13 4A - Letter, dated April 13, 1965 from Lucian 14 Renes to Nathan Hendricks - 6 pages 23 15 16 4B - Memorandum, dated January, 1965 from 17 Lucian Renes to the members of the central 18 committee on medicine and health and 19 technical advisors - 1 page 23 20 21 5A - National Safety Council, 1933 22 transactions - 13 pages 23 23 24 5B - National Safety Council, 1934 25 transactions - 14 pages 24 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003471 7 1 2 5C - National Safety Council, 1935 3 transactions - 13 pages 25 4 5 5D - Transactions, Silver Jubilee Safety 6 Congress, Chicago 10-14, 1938, National 7 Safety Council - 5 pages 25 8 9 5E - Letter, dated April 6, 1966 from 10 Dr. Neill Weaver to Allan Dooley - 2 pages 26 11 12 5F - Industrial Hygiene Digest - 9 pages 26 13 5G - An Article entitled "Uses and Limitations 14 of Respiratory Protective Equipment" 15 6 pages 27 16 5H - Document entitled "List of Devices for 17 Respiratory Industry Approved by the U.S. 18 Bureau of Mines," Dated October, 19 1936 - 7 pages 27 20 51 - Speech given by Dr. Robert Hunt- 6 pages 28 21 5J - Speech given by Carlton Brown and 22 William Yant of the U.S. Bureau of Mines, 23 Dated October 16, 1935 - 6 pages 28 24 5K - Speech, dated October 13, 1938, by Henry 25 Sayer on The Trend of Occupational Disease NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003472 8 1 Legislation-10 pages 29 2 5L - Document entitled "Safeguarding Petroleum 3 Refineries and Their Workers," by Roy 4 Bonsib - 31 pages 30 5 5M - 1959 excerpted monograph entitled 6 "Industrial Carcinogens," by Dr. Robert 7 Eckardt - 10 pages 30 8 5N - September, 1957 reprint of the 9 occupational health regulations regarding 10 "Maximum Permissible Concentrations of 11 Atmospheric Contaminants in Places of 12 Employment" - 11 pages 31 13 50 - Reprint of two speeches entitled "The 14 Engineer's Part in Eliminating Dust 15 Hazards," by Arthur S. Johnson and "The 16 Doctor's Part in Controlling Dust 17 Hazards," by A.D. Lazenby - 4 pages 86 18 5P - Article entitled "Now They're Blueprinting 19 Industrial Hygiene, dated November 21, 20 1955 - 3 pages 109 21 5Q- Article from "The Humble Way" entitled 22 "Keeping Well at Work" - 4 pages 112 23 6 - Bonsib report dated July, 1937 - 90 pages 57 24 7 - Report by James Hammond, dated September 1, 25 1972 - 40 pages 57 NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003473 9 1 8 - Speech regarding methods of surveying toxic 2 exposure in occupational environment, 3 September 27, 1964 - 10 pages 58 4 9A - Article Regarding an Analysis of Cancer 5 Mortality In Employees And Annuitants Of 6 An Oil Company And An Oil Pipe Line Company 7 by Drs. Baird, Hammond & 8 Bennison - 3 pages 67 9 9B - Article regarding Primary Malignant 10 Mesothelioma of the Pleura by Drs. 11 Eisenstadt and Wilson - 4 pages 67 12 10 - Letter dated January 15, 1973 from C.B. 13 Moore from James Hammond - 1 page 83 14 11 - Humble Oil Letter dated May 6, 1957 from 15 David Hammond to Dr. J.W. Osborn - 4 pages 90 16 12 - Humble-Enjay Safety Regulations document 17 regarding guidelines for handling 18 asbestos - 1 page 19 13 - Letter dated March 9, 1948 from N.V. 20 Hendricks to Dr. V.C. Baird - 1 page 111 116 21 22 23 24 25 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003474 10 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 MS. KYLE: Do it according to the rules in 3 the court of Texas? 4 MR. KAZAN: No. 5 MS. KYLE: Why not? You are in the State 6 of Texas. He is a Texas resident. And I would 7 also put on the record that you had failed to file 8 a petition for leterogatory from the Court. 9 Basically we are here out of the spirit of 10 cooperation and are more than willing to cooperate 11 with the plaintiffs and their discovery of the 12 case, unless there was actually filing. We have 13 received no service. Let's put it this way. We 14 have not received any petition from leterogatory 15 from Harris County or otherwise. 16 MR. HAND: So you are saying that the 17 subpoena is invalid? 18 MS. KYLE: I am saying that it's 19 insufficient, and I am saying that we are here to 20 cooperate. We are ready to go with this 21 deposition. I do not want to be in the position of 22 waiving any objections that we might have as we 23 proceed. I want to make a note that there is no 24 filing in the Court. 25 MR. HAND: I was asking the significance NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003475 11 1 of that. 2 MS. KYLE: We have no jurisdiction. Texas 3 has -- you have no - 4 MR. HAND: The subpoena is invalid, that 5 the professor need not have come here today? 6 MS. KYLE: No. I am saying we are here 7 out of the spirit of cooperation to proceed with 8 the deposition. 9 MR. HAND: That doesn't make any sense. 10 MS. KYLE: I am saying there was no 11 properly filed petition for leterogatory issued 12 from the State, asking Professor Hammond or 13 requiring him to be here. There is absolutely 14 nothing requiring him to be here today. 15 MR. HAND: The subpoena is invalid? 16 MS. KYLE: Is insufficient, is invalid, 17 and to the extent that he would not have to show 18 up. 19 MR. HAND: Who knows? 20 MR. KAZAN: I do. 21 MR. HAND: Go head. What do you know? We 22 have a commission from the California court and we 23 have asked the court reporter to see to do what's 24 necessary based on the commission to get the 25 subpoena issued and we have a subpoena that we ) l 1 NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. J '1 EXX-MOR-003476 12 1 understood was validly issued. I suppose it's not 2 a terribly important issue since the professor is 3 here and has indicated a willingness to appear and 4 give testimony. I believe the subpoena is adequate 5 and valid and enforceable. Go ahead. 6 MR. KAZAN: Yeah. I think it is 7 potentially a very big issue. When we were noticed 8 for tomorrow's reported videotaped deposition, we 9 discussed this issue with Exxon counsel in San 10 Francisco. We notified them of an application for 11 an order shortening time to bring on motions in 12 front of the Alameda Superior Court 1 of the 13 jurisdictions in which this proceeding is being 14 noticed; and we were told that the professor was 15 going to be made available pursuant to notice by 16 Mr. Brayton's office for a discovery deposition 17 today, that we would be given an opportunity at 18 that deposition to do whatever discovery we felt 19 was appropriate, that there was a production of 20 documents in connection with that deposition, and 21 that there was an agreement between us and Exxon 22 counsel that a variety of documents would be 23 produced to us in advance. 24 If counsel for Exxon's statement now is, 25 is that in some way this is an unofficial NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003477 13 1 proceeding or that they are not required to comply 2 with production requirements or the law or that 3 they can make reference to things that were 4 purportedly exhibits in other depositions' instead 5 of producing them here, if that's intended to 6 produce safety valves, we object, continue to 7 object, and will object to the deposition on 8 videotape being taken at all. 9 As far as I am concerned, this discovery 10 deposition is being conducted in accordance with 11 the California Discovery Codes and Rules of Court 12 pursuant to an agreement with Exxon and under the 13 supervision in part of Judge Kawaichi of the 14 Alameda County Superior Court. If a problem 15 develops, I intend to get Judge Kawaichi on the 16 phone and ask him to make appropriate rulings. So 17 I don't know if anybody is playing games, but it 18 wouldn't be the first time that some asbestos 19 defendant has done something that I thought was of 20 dubious propriety; and I just want to make sure 21 that the record is clear that our rights are 22 protected. 23 MS. KYLE: I think your rights will be 24 protected. I do not think that a dubious asbestos 25 defendant is an appropriate remark at the I :] NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. :i EXX-MOR-003478 14 1 proceedings today when we have just said that we 2 are here in the spirit of cooperation. I do take 3 offense to that remark. 4 I am not saying that we are not here to 5 respond to your discovery. We have given you what 6 you wanted. We had, I believe, seven days to 7 respond to a rather lengthy document request which 8 we did our best to comply with. I understand under 9 the rules of the California court that document 10 requests' deadline was sometime in June. We 11 responded in seven days. I fail to see how we are 12 not cooperating. 13 The other thing that I said when we began 14 this deposition was that you did not file a 15 petition for leterogatory in this case. You do not 16 have the Texas court for recourse. You have a 17 Texas citizen here. You basically have us here out 18 of the spirit of cooperation, and I said this to 19 preserve any objection that we may have. I do not 20 intend to waive that objection, but I do intend to 21 proceed with this deposition in the spirit of 22 cooperation if we can. 23 MR. HAND: Let's begin. 24 25 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003479 15 1 JAMES WILLIAM HAMMOND, 2 having been first duly sworn, testified as follows 3 4 EXAMINATION 5 BY MR. HAND: 6 Q Would you please tell us your name. 7 A. James William Hammond, HAMMOND. 8 Q. Senior? 9 A. Senior, uh-huh. 10 Q. Professor Hammond, my name is James Hand. 11 I am with the Brayton law office, which is just 12 north of San Francisco. We are here because our 13 office has pending in various jurisdictions in 14 northern California numerous asbestos cases, some 15 of which involve asbestos exposures at the Benicia 16 refinery of Exxon. 17 Just before you were sworn in, there was a 18 discussion among counsel as to on what basis you 19 are here today. It is my contention you are here 20 pursuant to a duly authorized and served subpoena. 21 In any case, perhaps that's not an issue because 22 Exxon -- that is Ms. Kyle, who is sitting on your 23 right -- has indicated a willingness to cooperate 24 and for you to be here pursuant to -- not pursuant 25 to anything but rather to be here and to produce NELL MC CALLUM ft ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX- 16 1 the documents set forth in the subpoena. 2 MR. HAND: Is that agreeable, Ms. Kyle? 3 MS. KYLE: Professor Hammond did a search 4 of the records that were relevant to your requests, 5 and he brought with him today what he had. He is 6 ready to answer your questions, to cooperate with 7 you in discovery in these cases. 8 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Let's go through the 9 document category set forth in the subpoena if we 10 may. Professor Hammond; and I will mark as 11 Plaintiff's Exhibit 1 the copy of the subpoena 12 itself. May I ask if you have seen that, sir? 13 A. I have either seen this one or a copy of 14 this. 15 Q. And a subpoena was served on you in this 16 case on May 7, 1992; is that correct. Professor 17 Hammond? 18 A. I don't have the information in front of 19 me. 20 Q. It was about a week and a half ago; is 21 that right? 22 MS. KYLE: Here it is, Jim. 23 A. It says May 7. 24 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Is that consistent with 25 your memory? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003481 17 1 A. Approximately, that is right. I don't 2 recall exactly whether it was the day before or the 3 day after. 4 MS. KYLE: Professor Hammond is reading 5 May the 7th off of the subpoena that Mr. Hand has 6 just handed him. 7 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Now this subpoena. 8 Professor Hammond, lists documents in 20 9 categories; and I recall writing to you the week 10 prior to this subpoena being issued and sending you 11 this list so that it might give you a little more 12 time to locate documents. I'd like to go through 13 the various categories because I need to know 14 whether you have brought here all documents that 15 fit in the various categories. 16 A. Only those documents which I had in my 17 possession. L8 Q. I understand. L9 Category No. 1 asks for all 20 correspondence, reports, and other documents that 21 you received or any company that you were working 22 for received prior to 1970 from any medical 23 director or industrial hygienist working for 24 another company. !5 Before we began here today, your counsel. \ / \ :1 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. 3 EXX-MOR-003482 18 1 Ms. Kyle, Identified a letter, dated April 13, 2 1965, from Lucian Renes to Nathan Hendricks with 3 attached copy of a report entitled "The Health of 4 Refinerymen Applying Asbestos Insulation," subject 5 titled (A Preliminary Audit), and also identified a 6 document from Lucian Renes to members of the 7 Central Committee on Medicine and Health, and 8 Technical Advisors with the subject Use of Asbestos 9 in the Petroleum Industry, also from 1965. 10 Are these the two documents that you had 11 in your possession? 12 A. Yes, they were mine. 13 Q. Do you maintain a library at your house? 14 A. Very limited now because of the stolen 15 documents. I don't have very much. 16 Q. Were you telling us before this deposition 17 began that you had numerous boxes of documents that 18 were stolen? Is that correct? 19 A. That is true. 20 Q. And when did that occur? 21 A. In the year of 1988. 22 Q. And they were at the University of Texas? 23 A. School of Public Health. 24 Q. Where is that school? 25 A. It's in the Medical Center here, just down NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003483 19 1 South Main Street, about three miles from here. 2 Q. In Houston? 3 A. Right here in Houston. 4 Q. Those documents that were stolen 5 approximately three years ago, were there any 6 copies made, perhaps stored at the School of Public 7 Health or elsewhere, before they were stolen? 8 MS. KYLE: I am going to object. I don't 9 quite understand the question. It was a bit 10 contorted. 11 If you understand it, Jim, feel free to 12 answer; but I think it was ambiguous. 13 A. I do not know of any copies that were made 14 of articles that I was speaking. 15 Q. (By Mr. Hand) At the School of Public 16 Health, are there in their library any documents 17 they used to maintain in your professional library 18 and that were stolen? 19 A. No, not to my knowledge. 20 Q. When you went to teach at the School of 21 Public Health, didn't you make copies of some of 22 the documents that you had maintained in your 23 library and give them to the library at the School 24 of Public Health? 25 A. No, I did not. I >\ 1 ,1 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. -1 EXX-MOR-003484 20 1 Q. Have you ever made copies of your 2 professional papers and donated them to any 3 institution? 4 A. No, I have not. 5 Q. Do you believe that among those 18 boxes 6 of stolen documents were some reports and 7 correspondence that you had received prior to 1970 8 from medical directors or industrial hygienists 9 working for other companies? 10 A. I do not know for sure if there were. 11 Q. Do you have a belief one way or the other? 12 MS. KYLE: I believe he stated that he 13 does not know one way or the other. I'll object. 14 That's been asked and answered. 15 MR. HAND: He said he was not sure. 16 THE WITNESS: I am not -- I don't know of 17 any documents such as he has asked me. 18 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Category No. 2, Professor, 19 asks you to bring with you here today all 20 correspondence, all reports, and all of the 21 documents that you received prior to 1960 or any 22 company you were employed by received prior to 1960 23 discussing any of certain subjects; and there's 24 four separate subjects listed there. 25 Have you brought with you here today NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003485 21 1 certain documents in response to that request? 2 A. I believe I have, beginning with the 3 Bonsib report, B O N S I B. 4 Q. I will mark and attach to the 5 deposition -- the Notice of Deposition of James 6 Hammond and Continuation of Depositions of API, 7 AISI, and CMA as Exhibit No. 2 to this deposition. 8 A. What was the dates on that? 9 Q. That's just the Notice of Deposition that 10 was served on the parties on April 23 of this 11 year. 12 I will mark and attach as Exhibit 3 to 13 this deposition - 14 MS. KYLE: Can I see those, the document 15 entitled Amended Notice of James -- of Deposition 16 of James Hammond which changed the time and 17 location? That document was served on the parties 18 on May 12, 1992. 19 20 (THE NOTICE OF DEPOSITION OF JAMES HAMMOND 21 AND THE CONTINUATION OF DEPOSITIONS OF 2 2 API, AISI, AND CMA, CONSISTING OF 5 PAGES, 23 WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES 24 HAMMOND EXHIBIT 2, A COPY OF WHICH IS 25 ATTACHED) NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX- 22 1 2 Q. (By Mr. Hand) And I want to make clear, 3 then, on the record that the subpoena that was 4 issued and which you indicated you received will be 5 marked as Exhibit 1 to this deposition transcript. 6 7 (THE SUBPOENA AND ATTACHMENT OF 20 8 DOCUMENT REQUESTS, CONSISTING OF 7 PAGES, 9 WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES 10 HAMMOND EXHIBIT 1, A COPY OF WHICH IS 11 ATTACHED) 12 13 (THE AMENDED NOTICE OF DEPOSITION OF JAMES 14 HAMMOND, CONSISTING OF 9 PAGES, WAS MARKED 15 FOR IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES HAMMOND 16 EXHIBIT 3, A COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED) 17 18 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Then the documents that you 19 brought in response to Category No. 1, which are 20 the April, 1965 letter from Lucian Renes to Nathan 21 Hendricks and the January, 1965 memoranda - 22 memorandum from Lucian Renes will be marked as 23 Exhibits 4A and 4B respectively. 24 25 (A LETTER, DATED APRIL 13, 1965, FROM NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003487 23 1 LUCIAN RENES TO NATHAN HENDRICKS, 2 CONSISTING OF 6 PAGES, WAS MARKED FOR 3 IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES HAMMOND EXHIBIT 4 4A, A COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED) 5 6 (THE MEMORANDUM, DATED JANUARY, 1965, FROM 7 LUCIAN RENES TO THE MEMBERS OF THE 8 CENTRAL COMMITTEE ON MEDICINE AND HEALTH, 9 AND TECHNICAL ADVISORS, CONSISTING OF 1 10 PAGE, WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES HAMMOND EXHIBIT 4B, A COPY OF WHICH 11 12 IS ATTACHED) 13 14 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Then let's go through the 15 documents falling in Category 2, if we may. We 16 have, first, the document entitled "National Safety 17 Council, 1933 Transactions"; and we will mark that 18 document Exhibit 5A. 19 20 (NATIONAL SAFETY COUNCIL, 1933 21 TRANSACTIONS, CONSISTING OF 13 PAGES, WAS 22 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES HAMMOND 23 EXHIBIT 5A, A COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED) 24 MS. KYLE: Could I clarify one thing at 25 >f J I ! . | j ! J | j I j j ] NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. '] EXX-MOR-003488 24 1 this point? 2 MR. HAND: Yes. 3 MS. KYLE: Mr. Kazan, are you of counsel 4 to the Brayton law firm to the cases noticed in 5 this deposition? 6 MR. KAZAN: I'm sorry? 7 MS. KYLE: Are you representing a party in 8 the cases noticed in the subpoena and notice of 9 deposition? 10 MR. KAZAN: No. 11 MS. KYLE: You're not? Okay. I just 12 wanted to make sure. 13 Q. (By Mr. Hand) The next document to be 14 designated. Exhibit 5B, is entitled "National 15 Safety Council, 1934 Transactions." 16 17 (NATIONAL SAFETY COUNCIL, 1934 18 TRANSACTIONS, CONSISTING OF 14 PAGES, WAS 19 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES HAMMOND 20 EXHIBIT 5B, A COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED) 21 22 Q. (By Mr. Hand) The next document is 23 entitled "National Safety Council, 1935 24 Transactions," and it's to be marked Exhibit 5C. 25 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003489 25 1 (NATIONAL SAFETY COUNCIL/ 1935 2 TRANSACTIONS, CONSISTING OF 13 PAGES, WAS 3 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES HAMMOND 4 EXHIBIT 5C, A COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED) 5 6 Q. (By Mr. Hand) The next document to be 7 designated. Exhibit 5D, Is marked on the front of 8 it, "Transactions, Silver Jubilee Safety Congress, 9 Chicago, October 10-14, 1938, National Safety 10 Council." 11 And it appears to simply list the officers 12 and directors at that time of the National Safety 13 Council. It is a five-page document. 14 15 (TRANSACTIONS, SILVER JUBILEE SAFETY 16 CONGRESS, CHICAGO 10-14, 1938, NATIONAL 17 SAFETY COUNCIL, CONSISTING OF 5 PAGES, WAS 18 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES HAMMOND 19 EXHIBIT 5D, A COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED) 20 21 q. (By Mr. Hand) The next document, which 22 looks like it should more properly have fallen in 23 the first category, is a 1966 letter from 24 Dr. Neill Weaver to Allan Dooley of Texaco 25 concerning "possible health effects of asbestos." NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX- 26 1 We will mark that document, then, 5E. 2 3 (A LETTER, DATED APRIL 6, 1966, FROM 4 DR. NEILL WEAVER TO ALLAN DOOLEY, 5 CONSISTING OF 2 PAGES, WAS MARKED FOR 6 IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES HAMMOND EXHIBIT 7 5E, A COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED) 8 9 Q. (By Mr. Hand) The next document is from 10 the Industrial Hygiene Foundation, and it is an 11 Industrial Hygiene Digest from the years 1937/38. 12 We will mark that document 5F. 13 14 (INDUSTRIAL HYGIENE DIGEST, CONSISTING OF 15 9 PAGES, WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS 16 JAMES HAMMOND EXHIBIT 5F, A COPY OF WHICH 17 IS ATTACHED) 18 19 Q. (By Mr. Hand) The next document is an 20 article by Dr. Philip Drinker entitled "Uses and 21 Limitations of Respiratory Protective Equipment, 22 reprinted from Mechanical Engineering, March, 23 1935." 24 We will mark that document 5G. 25 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003491 27 1 (AN ARTICLE ENTITLED "USES AND LIMITATIONS 2 OF RESPIRATORY PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT," 3 CONSISTING OF 6 PAGES, WAS MARKED FOR 4 IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES HAMMOND EXHIBIT 5 5G, A COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED) 6 7 Q. (By Mr. Hand) The next document is dated 8 October, 1936. It's from the United States Bureau 9 of Mines, entitled "List of Devices for Respiratory 10 Industry Approved by the U.S. Bureau of Mines." 11 We will mark that document, then, 5H. 12 13 (THE DOCUMENT ENTITLED "LIST OF DEVICES 14 FOR RESPIRATORY INDUSTRY APPROVED BY THE 15 U.S. BUREAU OF MINES," DATED OCTOBER, 16 1936, FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, 17 CONSISTING OF 7 PAGES, WAS MARKED FOR 18 IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES HAMMOND EXHIBIT 19 5H, A COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED) 20 2 1 Q. (By Mr. Hand) The next document is a 22 reprint of a speech given on October 9, 1936, 23 apparently before the National Safety Council by 24 Dr. Robert Hunt on the subject "The Lesser Known 25 Facts About Common Occupational Diseases." NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX- 28 1 We will mark that document 5-1. 2 3 (THE REPRINT OF A SPEECH GIVEN BY 4 DR. ROBERT HUNT BEFORE THE NATIONAL SAFETY 5 COUNCIL REGARDING "THE LESSER KNOWN FACTS 6 ABOUT COMMON OCCUPATIONAL DISEASES," 7 CONSISTING OF 6 PAGES, WAS MARKED FOR 8 IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES HAMMOND EXHIBIT 9 5-1, A COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED) 10 11 Q. (By Mr. Hand) The next document appears 12 to be a reprint of a speech given on October 16, 13 1935, before the National Safety Council by Carlton 14 Brown and William Yant of the U.S. Bureau of 15 Mines. 16 We will mark that document 5J. 17 18 (THE REPRINT OF A SPEECH GIVEN BY CARLTON 19 BROWN AND WILLIAM YANT OF THE U.S. BUREAU 20 OF MINES BEFORE THE NATIONAL SAFETY 21 COUNCIL, DATED OCTOBER 16, 1935, 22 CONSISTING OF 6 PAGES, WAS MARKED FOR 23 IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES HAMMOND EXHIBIT 24 5J, A COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED) 25 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003493 29 1 Q. (By Mr. Hand) The next document appears 2 to be a reprint of another speech before the 3 National Safety Council. This one by Henry Sayer 4 on "The Trend of Occupational Disease Legislation, 5 given on October 13, 1938. 6 We will mark that document 5K. 7 8 (THE REPRINT OF THE SPEECH, DATED OCTOBER 9 13, 1938, GIVEN BY HENRY SAYER BEFORE THE 10 NATIONAL SAFETY COUNCIL ON "THE TREND OF 11 OCCUPATIONAL DISEASE LEGISLATION," 12 CONSISTING OF 10 PAGES, WAS MARKED FOR 13 IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES HAMMOND EXHIBIT 14 5K, A COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED) 15 16 Q. (By Mr. Hand) The next document is 17 entitled "Safeguarding Petroleum Refineries and 18 Their Workers," by Roy Bonsib, reprinted from the 19 ILO's Industrial Safety Survey of 1943. 20 We will mark that document 5L. 21 22 (THE DOCUMENT ENTITLED "SAFEGUARDING 23 PETROLEUM REFINERIES AND THEIR WORKERS," 24 BY ROY BONSIB, REPRINTED FROM THE 25 INTERNATIONAL LABOUR OFFICE'S INDUSTRIAL NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. iI '1 EXX-MOR-003494 30 1 SAFETY SURVEY OF 1943, CONSISTING OF 31 2 PAGES, WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS 3 JAMES HAMMOND EXHIBIT 5L, A COPY OF WHICH 4 IS ATTACHED) 5 6 Q. (By Mr. Hand) The next document Is a 7 monograph entitled "Industrial Carcinogens," by 8 Dr. Robert Eckardt from 1959; but there are only a 9 few selected pages that have been produced. Page 4, 10 Page 99, 100, 101, 132, 133, and 134. 11 We will mark this document 5M. 12 13 (THE 1959 EXCERPTED MONOGRAPH ENTITLED 14 "INDUSTRIAL CARCINOGENS," BY 15 DR. ROBERT ECKARDT, CONSISTING OF 10 16 PAGES, WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS 17 JAMES HAMMOND EXHIBIT 5M, A COPY OF WHICH 18 IS ATTACHED) 19 20 Q. (By Mr. Hand) The next document is a 21 reprint of the Occupational Health Regulations on 22 "Maximum Permissible Concentrations of Atmospheric 23 Contaminants in Places of Employment," with the 24 publication date of September, 1957, from the Texas 25 State Department of Health, Division of NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003495 31 1 Occupational Health in Austin. 2 We will mark that document Exhibit 5N. 3 4 (THE SEPTEMBER, 1957 REPRINT OF THE 5 OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH REGULATIONS REGARDING 6 "MAXIMUM PERMISSIBLE CONCENTRATIONS OF 7 ATMOSPHERIC CONTAMINANTS IN PLACES OF 8 EMPLOYMENT" FROM THE TEXAS STATE 9 DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, DIVISION OF 10 OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH, AUSTIN, TEXAS, CONSISTING OF 11 PAGES, WAS MARKED FOR 11 12 IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES HAMMOND EXHIBIT 13 5N, A COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED) 14 15 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Now, there are some other 16 documents that you either authored or coauthored 17 and some post 1960 documents that your counsel, 18 Ms. Kyle, has proffered as falling within 19 Category 2. But since they don't, I will - 20 MS. KYLE: We will take them back. 21 Q. (By Mr. Hand) -- will attach those as not 22 in response to this category but I will instead 23 bring them in in response to other categories as we 24 get to them. 25 Other than those other documents that are | .| .I J " ` .j ! i ` NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. -I 1 EXX-MOR-003496 32 1 either post 1960 or authored by you, are these. 2 Exhibits 5A through 5N, the only documents that you 3 have in your possession. Professor Hammond, in 4 response to Category No. 2? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. This Eckardt publication on "Industrial 7 Carcinogens," apparently that came from the library 8 of the API. Is that where it came from? 9 A. I do not remember. 10 Q. If you want to, look at the document and 11 see if that refreshes your recollection as to where 12 you obtained that copy from. The second page of 13 that document is marked "Library, American 14 Petroleum Institute." 15 MS. KYLE: Do you recall? 16 A. I don't recall. But I had a copy of the 17 original book, and it got stolen. 18 Q. (By Mr. Hand) What you have brought here 19 today, is this your entire copy of this article or 20 do you have the full article? 21 A. I do not have the article now. I had the 2 2 book. It was a hardback book that was available. 23 Q. What you have brought here today, this is 24 something that you maintain in your possession, 25 still; is that correct? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003497 33 1 A. I made It for that purpose. I don't 2 recall why I got that particular -- I would have to 3 look at it and see just where I used it. 4 Q. But the part that you have only consists 5 of these six or seven pages; is that correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. The '43 Bonsib article entitled 8 "Safeguarding Petroleum Refineries and Their 9 Workers," if you will be kind enough to look at 10 that, that document, too, indicates it came from 11 the library of the American Petroleum Institute. 12 Do you recall that that was the source of 13 the document? 14 A. I would go along with that because they 15 did accumulate documents of that nature. I don't 16 think -- believe that I ever had a personal copy of 17 that one. 18 Q. Have you asked the API staff previously to 19 send you various publications that are in their 20 library? 21 A. Very seldom, but I believe I have in the 22 past. 23 Q. Did -- they maintain a rather extensive 24 library in Washington, D.C., don't they? 25 A. I understand that they do, and they did 1 I I NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003498 34 1 while I was working with them. 2 Q. In fact, you have been at their library 3 before, haven't you? 4 A. I have. 5 Q. On approximately how many occasions? 6 A. Two or three, I recall. 7 Q. It used to be in New York, is that 8 correct, the API? 9 A. That was many years before , and that was 10 even before I came to work for the petroleum 11 industry. 12 Q. Did you ever visit the API facilities in 13 New York? 14 A. I did not. 15 Q. And to the best of your recollection, that 16 you only visited their facility in Washington, D.C. 17 on two or three occasions? 18 A. In their library, yes. 19 Q. Have you visited other offices of the API 20 on other occasions? 21 A. Usually annually or more frequently than 22 that. 23 Q. How extensive. Professor Hammond, is your 24 collection of transactions from the National Safety 25 Council? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003499 35 1 A. Limited to these copies that you have. It 2 pertains to asbestos or some other aspect of the 3 occupational diseases. 4 Q. When did you obtain copies of those? 5 MS. KYLE: Do you recall? 6 A. I do not recall. 7 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Can you estimate for us 8 what decade you obtained copies of those? 9 MS. KYLE: If you recall. 10 A. Within the last 10 years. 11 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Why did you obtain copies 12 of these? 13 A. Because I felt they had references to 14 information I was interested in. 15 Q. Was this information on asbestos in 16 particular? 17 A. Particularly asbestos. 18 Q. Are these documents, then, that you 19 gathered based on your retention either by Bill 20 Baggett or Joe Blanks? 21 A. Some of them were actually given to me by 22 those persons, and they collected them and gave me 23 copies. 24 MS. KYLE: Jim, the Professor is going to 25 take breaks pretty much, oh, every 40 to 50 ! NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. i el1 EXX-MOR-003500 36 1 minutes. We have a 79-year-old young man. So we 2 are probably going to be looking at another 5 to 10 3 minutes. 4 MR. HAND: That's fine. 5 MS. KYLE: We started at 12:50. 6 MR. HAND: Anytime the Professor wants a 7 break, that's fine. 8 Q. (By Mr. Hand) This Exhibit 5G, the 9 Philip Drinker article, "Uses and Limitations of 10 Respiratory Protective Equipment," where did this 11 document come from, Professor? 12 MS. KYLE: Do you recall? 13 A. I do not recall. 14 Q. (By Mr. Hand) I may later on ask you a 15 few questions about some of these other documents 16 in Category 2 that you brought with you here 17 today. These are all documents that you maintain? 18 A. I did not make a practice of accumulating 19 or maintaining other than just my immediate need, 20 and then I may lay them aside. I made no effort in 21 filing them, no. 22 Q. These are documents you maintain at your 23 residence? 24 A. I do. 25 Q. Have you previously provided Exxon with a NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003501 37 1 copy of these documents? 2 THE WITNESS: Have you seen them? 3 MS. KYLE: Yes, we have. We copied them 4 for you. 5 Q. (By Mr. Hand) You took these to counsel 6 for Exxon, and Exxon photocopied these for you? 7 A. I understand, yes, they did. 8 MS. KYLE: The Professor does not have a 9 copier in his home. 10 MR. HAND: He does not have a what? 11 Copier? 12 MS. KYLE: Copier. 13 MR. HAND: I understand. 14 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Category No. 3 asks for you 15 to bring "all pre-1978 documents reporting and/or 16 discussing levels of airborne asbestos." 17 I believe that Ms. Kyle has offered up the 18 1937 Bonsib report as the only document you have in 19 that category. I don't need a copy of that report, 20 except insofar as it may be a better copy than my 21 own. 22 Let me ask you. Professor Hammond: Other 23 than this 1937 Bonsib report, do you have any 24 documents whatsoever that report the results of air 25 monitoring for asbestos? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. ' EXX-MOR-003502 38 1 A. I don't know that you have anything there 2 nor do I have anything in my personal possession, 3 but there might be something in those reports that 4 would be of interest to us. 5 Q. I am not -- you are referring, then, to 6 the documents that were marked as exhibits to the 7 deposition as responsive to Category 2? 8 A. I suppose that would be the right 9 category. 10 Q. Other than these documents that you have 11 brought here today, have you any documents that 12 report levels of airborne asbestos? 13 MS. KYLE: Anywhere in the United States? 14 MR. HAND: Anywhere under any 15 circumstances. 16 A. I do not recall any that I could identify 17 for you. 18 Q. (By Mr. Hand) You do not have reports 19 from any of the Humble or Exxon refineries? 20 A. No, I don't recall of any data of that 21 nature; but... 22 Q. Have you made a reasonable search for 23 any? 24 A. I have, I think, pertaining to reports. 25 Q. You do not have reports of airborne NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003503 39 1 asbestos levels out of the Baytown or the Baton 2 Rouge refinery? 3 A. I do not have them in my possession. 4 Q. Have you ever had such documents in your 5 personal possession? 6 A. I did have once when I was active in the 7 program, but I didn't maintain them in my own 8 files. And had I had them, they would have been 9 stolen along with the other documents that were 10 taken. 11 Q. Is it the best of your belief that you 12 never had them in your personal possession? they 13 were only in your company files? 14 A. That is right. 15 Q. I'm sorry. What did you say? 16 A. Yes. That is true. 17 MS. PLUNKETT: Mr. Hand, since that has 18 been produced by Mr. Hammond in response to this 19 deposition, can we go ahead and mark that? 20 MR. HAND: We can mark the top cover 21 page. I am sure everybody has a copy of this 22 document. 23 MS. PLUNKETT: I am not sure I have that 24 complete document. 25 MR. HAND: I don't intend to mark the j ! I NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. -1 EXX-MOR-003504 40 1 entire document as an exhibit, but I am sure that 2 Ms. Kyle would be happy to provide you with a copy 3 if you like one. 4 MS. PLUNKETT: All right. 5 MS. KYLE: Mr. Hammond is saving copying 6 costs. 7 Q. (By Mr. Hand) The next category. 8 Professor, is all documents, including newspaper 9 articles, reporting what occurred and/or who was 10 present at meetings that you attended before 1970 11 of the API, National Petroleum Refiners' 12 Association, Air Hygiene Foundation and Industrial 13 Hygiene Foundation, American Industrial Hygiene 14 Association, or Manufacturing Chemists' 15 Association. 16 I have asked for these documents whether 17 you were a speaker or participant or other, but you 18 need not produce documents concerning the 1935 19 (SIC) API meeting in San Francisco. 20 I don't believe you brought any documents 21 in response to that category. Do you have any 22 documents reporting what occurred or who was 23 present at any such meetings? 24 A. Let me ask about that San Francisco 25 meeting. What date did you say was that meeting? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003505 41 1 Q. 1955. 2 A. I thought I heard '35. 3 MR. KAZAN: He did say '35 first. These 4 young guys, you know, they are forgetful. 5 A. No, I do not have any copies. 6 Q. (By Mr. Hand) The next document category 7 is No. 5, all minutes or other records of what 8 transpired at pre-1975 meetings of the API and/or 9 any committee or subcommittee thereof (except the 10 1955 meeting in San Francisco). 11 Do you have any such minutes or other 12 records? 13 A. No. 14 Q. Category 6 asks you to bring with you here 15 today all pre-1975 documents submitted to and/or 16 received from the API's Medical Advisory Committee, 17 Medical and Health Committee, Industrial Hygiene 18 Subcommittee or Subcommittee on Carcinogenicity. 19 Do you have any such documents to bring 20 here today? 21 A. No. You might use the article, part of 22 the book by Dr. Eckardt. Other than that, I do not 23 think I have any other materials. 24 MS. KYLE: We have quite a ways to go to 25 get through with this. We are going to take a NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003506 42 1 short break. 2 MR. HAND: That's fine. 3 4 (A BRIEF RECESS WAS HAD) 5 6 Q. Professor Hammond, Category 7 asks that 7 you bring here today all pre-1975 documents 8 submitted to and/or received from the Air Hygiene 9 Foundation or Industrial Hygiene Foundation. 10 You have brought with you those one 11 digests from the years 1937 to '38. Do you have 12 any other documents that you received from or 13 submitted to the Air Hygiene Foundation or 14 Industrial Hygiene Foundation from before 1975? 15 A. I do not have any other publication in my 16 possession. 17 Q. The next category asks for the article 18 "Industrial Hygiene Features of a Petrochemical 19 Benzene Plant Design and Operation," which I 20 believe you authored or coauthored and that may 21 have appeared in the Journal of the AIHA. 22 Have you brought that document with you 23 here today? 24 A. That document dealt with benzene 25 entirely. No, I did not bring it today. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003507 43 1 Q. Do you have a copy of that document? 2 A. We have somewhere - 3 MR. HAND: Do you think you could locate 4 that? 5 MS. KYLE: I don't know if we do or not. 6 I fail to see the relevancy of the benzene document 7 in this case. 8 MR. HAND: The Industrial Hygiene document 9 is not irrelevant. I would ask you bring that 10 tomorrow. 11 MS. KYLE: How it's relative to the 12 petrochemical benzene design is irrelevant to this 13 case. 14 MR. KAZAN: In California relevance is not 15 a requirement for discovery proceedings. 16 MS. KYLE: I fail to see how it would lead 17 to admissible evidence to have a design of benzene 18 plant. We are talking about always as -- this is 19 an article, public domain, published in the Journal 20 of the AIHA. 21 MR. KAZAN: Maybe the benzene plant got 22 hot. 23 MR. HAND: I would ask that -- Ms. Kyle, 24 that you locate that document and bring it in 25 tomorrow; and we can talk about it. I don't know i i i NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. _j EXX-MOR-003508 44 1 what it contains. I don't know what it says about 2 industrial hygiene aspects. That's why I have to 3 look at it. 4 Talking about relevancy in a vacuum makes 5 it very difficult. If, for instance, the document 6 talks about the need to protect workers of 7 independent contractors -- and I have no idea 8 whether it does or doesn't -- or provide disposable 9 clothing or masks and respirators or to change the 10 masks and respirators daily, all those may be 11 relevant. And talking about what the document may 12 contain when I can't see it makes things very 13 difficult. If you-all have a copy of it, I would 14 ask that you bring it tomorrow. 15 MS. KYLE: I can honestly say that I do 16 not know if we have it or not, but I am sure the 17 library in downtown Houston may have it. What is 18 the AIHA, James? Is that American Institute? 19 MR. HAND: American Industrial Hygiene 20 Association. 21 THE WITNESS: It's in all the public 22 libraries, I think. 23 MR. HAND: If the professor has a copy of 24 it, we would appreciate it being brought in 25 tomorrow. Is that agreeable? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003509 45 1 MS. KYLE: We will see if the professor 2 has a copy. 3 MR. HAND: And if he does have a copy, you 4 will bring it in tomorrow? 5 MS. KYLE: I will take it into 6 consideration, unless I make some judgment call of 7 my own that it falls, within the Texas Rules of 8 Civil Procedure, unresponsive to this request. 9 MR. KAZAN: I will remind you that 10 California law also applies. I would also remind 11 you of your earlier offer in the spirit of 12 cooperation. 13 MS. KYLE: We are here to cooperate. 14 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Category No. 9 asks for all 15 industrial hygiene surveys done before 1970 of 16 petroleum refineries or petrochemical plants 17 (including all Industrial Hygiene Surveys of the 18 Baton Rouge refinery). 19 Do you have any such documents in your 20 possession, Mr. Hammond? 21 A. I do not. 22 Q. Have you at times in the past had such 23 documents in your possession? 24 A. I have seen some in the past years, yes; 25 but I do not know where they would be found. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003510 46 1 Q. Have you ever had any such documents in 2 your possession? 3 A. As I said, I don't know that I personally 4 had any; but I have seen them in libraries, and I 5 do know that there have been some because I have 6 seen them in the past. 7 Q. Category No. - 8 A. One or so. 9 Q. I'm sorry. Beg your pardon? 10 A. About one I have in mind I have seen. 11 Q. Which one do you have in mind? 12 A. I think I saw a survey made in the Baton 13 Rouge refinery. 14 Q. Where did you see that document? 15 A. I had it in my hands and across my desk. 16 Q. That was when you were teaching? 17 A. No. That was when I was director of the 18 industrial hygiene program for the Humble Oil & 19 Refining Company. 20 Q. Did you ever take a copy of that document 21 with you when you left - 22 A. No -- 23 Q. -- Exxon? 24 A. No, I did not. 25 Q. Category No. 10, Professor, asks you to NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003511 47 1 bring with you a list of positions that you have 2 held with the API or any committee or subcommittee 3 thereof. 4 Do you have any such documents? 5 A. Do you have my resume? 6 Q. I have a copy of your resume from -- I 7 don't know -- six months or a year ago. 8 A. There has been no changes that I know of. 9 That would list all of those such organizations and 10 committees. 11 Q. Other than this document, do you have any 12 list of positions you have held with the API or any 13 committee or subcommittee thereof? 14 A. No, not that I remember. 15 Q. How extensive is your collection of 16 professional papers at home? Enough to fill two or 17 three file drawers, or more extensive or less 18 extensive? 19 A. Oh, very much less extensive than that, 20 uh-huh. Very few. And you have copies of all that 21 I have in mine. 22 Q. Other than these documents that were 23 stolen some three years ago, have you destroyed any 24 documents in the last five years that were part of your professional papers? 25 | i -I NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. <1 EXX-MOR-003512 48 1 A. I have not. 2 Q. Other than the documents that were stolen, 3 do you still maintain copies, today, of all the 4 professional papers that you had five years ago? 5 A. I misunderstood your question. 6 Q. The first question was whether you have 7 destroyed any. You said you have not. The second 8 question is: Do you still have, today, a copy of 9 all the professional papers that you had five years 10 ago, except for those documents that were stolen? 11 A. I do not. 12 Q. What happened to other papers that you had 13 five years ago, were not stolen but you do not have 14 them still today? 15 A. I do not recall any publications that were 16 not included in the list that I have filed away - 17 MS. KYLE: Boxes? 18 A. -- in boxes in the School of Public 19 Health. 20 Q. (By Mr. Hand) That is to say, you have 21 some documents that were not stolen; is that 22 correct? 23 A. I did not say -- no, I do not know of any 24 document that was not in the files that were stolen 25 that I wrote. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003513 49 1 Q. You have at home some professional 2 papers ? 3 MS. KYLE: You are asking him two 4 different levels here. I think the professor is 5 addressing - 6 Tell me if I am wrong. You're addressing 7 publications ? 8 THE WITNESS: Yes. 9 MS. KYLE: And publications and this sort 10 of thing. 11 Are you addressing publications? 12 MR. HAND: More broadly. 13 MS. KYLE: Let's try to get this straight 14 so you can have a nice, clean record. 15 MR. HAND: Let's take publications, 16 first. 17 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Professor Hammond, as 18 regards to Category 12, which refers to speeches or 19 talks that you have given -- and I got that list 20 out of your curriculum vitae -- do you have copies 21 of any notes or summaries of any of those speeches 22 listed in Category 12? 23 24 (DISCUSSION BETWEEN THE WITNESS AND HIS 25 COUNSEL) NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX- 50 1 2 MS. KYLE: I think the professor may have 3 produced some documents responsive to this, 4 responsive to Request 12 - 5 THE WITNESS: I see some that you have. 6 MS. KYLE: -- in your stack for 2. 7 MR. HAND: If you will be kind enough 8 there. Professor, to look through these documents 9 that were produced - 10 MS. KYLE: I don't know if we did or not. 11 MR. KAZAN: Professor, if you could, keep 12 your voice up. There's air-conditioning noise and 13 people sitting behind you. I am sure they can't 14 hear it very well. 15 MS. KYLE: We will look through this 16 stack. 17 There is none in this stack that he gave 18 us? 19 THE WITNESS: No. 20 MR. HAND: Would you like to look in the 21 rest of these? 22 This category, Ms. Kyle, asks for 23 speeches, not articles. So I don't think that you 24 are going to find copies of notes or summaries of 25 any of his speeches among the documents that you NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003515 51 1 have brought with you here today. 2 MS. KYLE: Many times your speeches are 3 part of a publication. So they could very well be 4 published. Although we have one here now, they are 5 blue printing "Industrial Hygiening" by J. W. 6 Hammond; but it's not on the list. I don't know if 7 this was a speech or talk or straight publication. 8 THE WITNESS: That was not the correct 9 title. It's not the correct title. I think he 10 said he had seen one, that was API, 1955. 11 MS. KYLE: Is this a talk? 12 THE WITNESS: Yes. I don't know if that 13 was published. 14 MS. KYLE: This is a talk? J? Is it on 15 his list? 16 MR. HAND: Yes. 17 MS. KYLE: Let's see. Here we go. Okay. 18 So what's the question on the table? 19 Q. (By Mr. Hand) The question is: As 20 regards to speeches listed in Category 12, you have 21 indicated that you have brought with you the one 22 that had a title "Methods of Surveying Toxic 23 Exposure in Occupational Environment" presented at 24 the AMA's 24th annual Congress on occupational 25 health in 1964. ! 1 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. '1 EXX-MOR-003516 52 1 Have you brought with you any reprints, 2 notes, or summaries concerning the other speeches 3 listed in Category 12? 4 MS. KYLE: Other than "Methods"? 5 MR. HAND: Yes. 6 A. X think there is one in there by Hammond 7 and Baird that dealt with the experience of the 8 cancer review. 9 MR. KAZAN: You are referring to the 10 epidemiology paper that you did? 11 THE WITNESS: Yes. 12 MS. KYLE: There you go. Professor, right 13 there. 14 Q. (By Mr. Hand) That's one of your 15 articles, not one of your speeches; is that 16 correct? 17 A. That's publicized, yes. 18 Q. Let's talk about that document for a 19 moment. This is a publication of yours entitled 20 "An Analysis of Cancer Mortality in Employees and 21 Annuitants of an Oil Company and an Oil Pipe Line 22 Company." 23 This document appeared, according to your 24 resume, in Volume 18, No. 1, March, 1958 of the 25 medical bulletin. Does that sound correct to you? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003517 53 1 A. That Is correct. 2 Q. You have not brought with you here all 3 pages of that article; is that correct? 4 MS. KYLE: Let's check it out. 5 A. I don't know of any other missing page. 6 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Do you have the missing 7 pages? 8 A. I don't know of it, no. 9 Q. Do you believe, then, that your copy is 10 also missing those pages? 11 A. I do not have a copy. 12 Q. You don't have a copy. 13 Then how is it you brought this document 14 today? 15 A. I brought it along. 16 MS. KYLE: This is what he has. 17 A. It's what I have. 18 Q. (By Mr. Hand) What you have brought here 19 is your original? 20 A. No. No. I haven't had the original in 21 years. Just a reprint. 22 Q. What you have brought here is your only 23 copy, and you do not now have a copy? 24 A. No. 25 Q. I am holding in my hands the only copy? t/ I NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. 4 EXX-MOR-003518 54 1 A. Yeah. I do not have a copy of that In my 2 hands -- I mean, in my files. 3 Q. Have you given -- what I have asked you. 4 Professor, is to bring with you certain documents. 5 What I want to know is: Must this document be 6 photocopied and returned to you because it's your 7 only copy, or did you keep a copy? 8 A. I should have a copy, I think. 9 MS. KYLE: He'll have a copy as soon as 10 Exxon gives it back to him, the copy. We are 11 sitting on them right now, and we will return them 12 to him. 13 MR. HAND: Is Exxon stating that the copy 14 that Professor Hammond delivered to Exxon only 15 consists of Pages 60 through 65 and the copy that 16 Professor Hammond gave to Exxon stops with 17 Page 65? 18 THE WITNESS: As far as I know. 19 MS. KYLE: As far as we know, sitting here 20 right now, it looks like it ends at 65. I will 21 double-check and make sure we have copied it, but 22 Professor Hammond can tell you. 23 MR. HAND: If you would be kind enough to 24 do so. 25 MS. KYLE: Will do. NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003519 55 1 MR. HAND: I will mark that document when 2 we get to the appropriate category. 3 Q. (By Mr. Hand) I believe that we were 4 asking about. Professor Hammond, were simply the 5 speeches. The speeches are enumerated in 6 Category 12. And I think you have identified one 7 speech, which you have brought the reprint; and 8 that is the one that was presented at the 24th 9 annual Congress of the AMA's meeting on 10 occupational health in 1964. 11 So, if you would, be kind enough. 12 Professor, to look at Category No. 12 carefully and 13 tell me if you have reprints, summaries, notes, or 14 other documents referring to the content of any of 15 those speeches other than that one speech that you 16 brought with you here today, given in 1964. 17 A. No, I do not see any that I have; and they 18 are among the ones that was stolen from my files. 19 It would have been there, had I kept them. Some of 20 these, I did not keep after the first few weeks of 21 time. 22 Q. Getting back to the question I was asking 23 earlier. Professor: Are there any documents you 24 maintained in your professional files regarding 25 your work as an industrial hygienist five years ago NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX- 56 1 that you don't have today, other than the ones that 2 were stolen? 3 A. I do not know of any. 4 Q. So you have -- there are no documents that 5 you had five years ago that you have either 6 destroyed or given to somebody else? 7 A. I don't recall having ever given it to 8 anybody else. I have certainly not destroyed any 9 of it, not a single one. LO Q. Going back, then, to the specific LI categories. Category 11 asks for "all documents .2 containing and/or reflecting pre-1975 .3 recommendations for industrial hygiene practices to .4 be followed during installation or removal of .5 asbestos-containing materials." .6 Other than those documents that you have 7 brought and produced in response to Categories 1 8 and 2, the only document you have brought in 9 response to this category is the one entitled 0 "Asbestos Handling Guide Lines" that you authored 1 in 1972; is that correct? 2 A. That's right. 3 MR. HAND: I will mark that document, 4 then. Exhibit 6 to this deposition. 5 MR. WALLACE: I believe you marked as 6A NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003521 57 1 the face page of the Bonsib report. 2 MR. HAND: Right you are. 3 MR. WALLACE: So this should be 7 maybe. 4 MR. HAND: Yes. In fact, what we will do 5 is simply mark the Bonsib report page Exhibit 6 - 6 we don't need to use a letter designation, as 7 well -- and this document will be marked 8 Exhibit 7. 9 10 (THE REPORT WRITTEN BY ROY BONSIB, DATED JULY, 1937, REGARDING "DUST PRODUCING 11 12 OPERATIONS IN THE PRODUCTION OF PETROLEUM 13 PRODUCTS AND ASSOCIATED ACTIVITIES," 14 CONSISTING OF 90 PAGES, WAS MARKED FOR 15 IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES HAMMOND EXHIBIT 6, 16 A COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED) 17 18 (THE REPORT WRITTEN BY JAMES HAMMOND, ASSISTED BY THE INDUSTRIAL HYGIENE STAFF, 19 20 DATED SEPTEMBER 1, 1972, REGARDING 21 "ASBESTOS HANDLING GUIDE LINES, HUMBLE 22 OIL & REFINING COMPANY, ENJAY CHEMICAL 23 COMPANY, HOUSTON, TEXAS," CONSISTING OF 40 24 PAGES, WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS 25 JAMES HAMMOND EXHIBIT 7, A COPY OF WHICH j i i i j i "I ! J j ' 'I J I l ) j I j NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003522 58 1 IS ATTACHED) 2 3 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Professor, Category 12 is 4 the one that asks for notes, reprints, summaries, 5 or other documents referring to certain speeches 6 that you have given. 7 Now, I believe you identified your 1964 8 speech to the AMA's 24th annual Congress on 9 occupational health given in Houston as responsive 10 to that category. 11 I will have that document marked 12 Exhibit 8. 13 14 (THE SPEECH REGARDING "METHODS OF 15 SURVEYING TOXIC EXPOSURE IN OCCUPATIONAL 16 ENVIRONMENT," PRESENTED AT AMERICAN 17 MEDICAL ASSOCIATION, 24TH ANNUAL CONGRESS 18 ON OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH, HOUSTON, TEXAS, 19 SEPTEMBER 27, 1964, BY JAMES HAMMOND, 20 CONSISTING OF 10 PAGES, WAS MARKED FOR 21 IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES HAMMOND EXHIBIT 8, 22 A COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED) 23 24 Q. (By Mr. Hand) And I believe you told us 25 earlier, you don't have notes, reprints, summaries. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003523 59 1 or other documents referring to any of these other 2 speeches listed; is that correct? 3 A. Do you have the API speech delivered in 4 San Francisco in 1955 already identified? 5 Q. Well, I have asked for certain specific 6 speeches and that is not one of the speeches that I 7 have asked for since I already have a copy of that 8 and I didn't want to ask you to produce documents I 9 already had. 10 A. That's the only other one that comes to 11 mind that would be available. 12 Q. Category No. 13 asks for "all pre-1960 13 'toxic examination lists.'" 14 Do you have any such documents? 15 A. I do not have those. 16 Q. Category 14 asks for "all records of 17 meetings held before 1970 of The National Petroleum 18 Refiners' Association at which a speech was given 19 and/or discussion occurred concerning health and 20 safety issues applicable to petroleum refineries." 21 Do you have any such records of any 22 meetings ? 23 A. I do not have any such information in my 24 files about that. If there was a speech given 25 before the National Refiners' Association, I assume )liI I i NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. A EXX-MOR-003524 60 1 that they would have it in their records or their 2 files. 3 Q. Did you ever have any records of meetings 4 held of the National Petroleum Refiners' 5 Association? 6 A. I do not remember. We are going back to 7 1945 -- I mean, we are going back to 45 years ago; 8 and I don't recall. 9 Q. You have previously attended meetings of 10 The National Petroleum Refiners' Association; is 11 that correct? 12 A. I may have. I don't recall which one or 13 where and when. 14 Q. And you don't even recall whether or not 15 you ever attended any such meetings? 16 A. I said I didn't recall when, where and 17 when; but I knew The National Refiners' Petroleum 18 Association did exist. That's about all I know 19 about it. 20 Q. I'm sorry. I need a clear answer to the 21 question. Professor. I know you said you don't 22 remember when, who, or where - 23 A. If I ever gave any talk before them; but 24 if I did, I am sure it would be in their minutes. 25 Q. Let me ask -- NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003525 61 1 A. I feel it might be still in their 2 minutes. 3 Q. Let me ask simply this question: Have you 4 ever attended a meeting of The National Petroleum 5 Refiners' Association? 6 A. I don't recall any specific meeting, but I 7 may have. I don't recall. 8 Q. The next category asks for all pre-1970 9 documents in your asbestos file. 10 Do you maintain at present. Professor, an 11 asbestos file? 1? A. I do not. 13 Q. Have you in the past maintained an 14 asbestos file? 15 A. Under that title, I don't recall. It L6 would have been in the papers that were stolen from 17 my office. 18 Q. When you worked for Humble, you maintained 19 a so-called asbestos file, didn't you? 20 A. I don't recall that I did, no. 21 Q. Category 16 asks you to bring a reprint of 22 any speech or presentation given in 1936 by 23 G.M. Kintz and H.C. Fowler, and all pre-1960 24 documents summarizing or otherwise referring to 25 such a presentation by Kintz and Fowler. NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX- 62 1 Have you ever had in possession -- your 2 possession, a reprint of the 1936 Kintz/Fowler 3 presentation? 4 A. I have seen that file. I don't know 5 whether it belonged to me or someone else; but I 6 have reviewed it, yes. 7 Q. You do not have such a document at 8 present; is that correct? 9 A. I don't think I have, no. 10 Q. Have you made a reasonable effort to 11 locate any such document? 12 A. 1 have. 13 Q. And you have not been able to find it? 14 A. I did not find it. 15 Q. The next category, 17, asks you to bring 16 "all reports of incidence of cancer... among 17 petrochemical and/or petroleum refinery workers, 18 including the article entitled 'An Analysis of 19 Cancer Mortality in Employees and Annuitants of an 20 Oil Company and a Oil Pipe Line Company,' that 21 appeared in 'The Medical Bulletin,' Volume 18, 22 No. 2, July, 1958." 23 You have brought with you and we have 24 discussed earlier the six pages of that article. 25 Do I understand correctly that you believe that NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003527 63 1 these six pages are the only portions of that 2 article that you possess? 3 A. That's the only ones that I know exist. 4 Q. Would you agree with me, Professor, that 5 these six pages are not a complete copy of the 6 article? 7 A. No, I would not know. 8 Q. You simply don't know one way or the other 9 whether these six pages are the only pages that are 10 part of that article? 11 A. No, I do not. 12 MR. KAZAN: Excuse me. Professor. I am 13 not sure I am hearing you correctly. In your 14 previous answer, did you say I do not, no, N O, or 15 did you say I do not know, KNOW? 16 THE WITNESS: He asked me a question that 17 I do not know the answer to. 18 MR. KAZAN: The questions are just: Are 19 pages missing? And your answer is I don't know? 20 A. I do not know. 21 MR. KAZAN: Did the article look to you 22 like it was complete or incomplete, or can you 23 tell? 24 THE WITNESS: No, I cannot tell. 25 MR. KAZAN: Okay. Thank you. t ! II NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. 4 EXX-MOR-003528 64 1 Q. (By Mr. Hand) And other than this 2 article, do you have any other documents reporting 3 cancer among petrochemical or petroleum refinery 4 workers? Do you possess any other articles in that 5 subject? 6 MS. KYLE: Do you wish for him to go back 7 through the pile in your Request No. 2 to see if 8 that is responsive? 9 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Is your answer, then. 10 Professor, other than documents that may be part of 11 Category No. 2, you have no other such documents? 12 A. I do not have. They may be out of that 13 nature. 14 Q. But not in your possession? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Perhaps that's not entirely correct. You 17 have brought with you a document which is a medical 18 article entitled, "Primary Malignant Mesothelioma 19 of the Pleura" by Drs. Eisenstadt and Wilson from 20 Port Arthur. 21 You understood that Drs. Eisenstadt and 22 Wilson were reporting on a mesothelioma that 23 developed in a refinery worker; is that correct? 24 A. I brought that along, yes. 25 Q. And you understand that that article NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003529 65 1 reports on either one or two cases of cancer among 2 oil refinery workers; is that correct? 3 A. I don't remember the details. 4 Q. Why did you bring that article along? 5 A. Because it was in my possession. 6 Q. You have documents in your possession that 7 you didn't bring; is that correct? 8 A. No. Not pertaining to asbestos or 9 refining operation, no. 10 Q. So you brought with you today to this 11 deposition all documents that you have concerning 12 asbestos or -- what was the other category? 13 Refinery conditions? 14 A. Refining operations and hazards. 15 Q. And you have brought with you, then, 16 today, all documents that you have concerning 17 asbestos and refinery operations; is that correct? 18 A. I have. 19 Q. By the way - 20 MS. KYLE: I'd like to make one comment on 21 that. The professor has brought documents that are 22 responsive to your request, in addition to their 23 being applicable to asbestos and refining 24 operations. 25 MR. HAND: Well, I am not sure. Is ) i -! i ) > NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003530 66 1 counsel saying that professor did not bring all 2 documents he possesses concerning asbestos and 3 refinery operations? 4 MS. KYLE: What I am saying is that the 5 professor made a search of his files for documents 6 that were responsive to your request. 7 MR. HAND: Since counsel is trying to 8 clarify what it is that Professor Hammond has 9 searched for. Professor Hammond, just a moment ago, 10 said he brought all documents he has in his 11 possession concerning asbestos or refinery 12 operations. 13 MS. KYLE: Relevant to this request, 14 Jim - 15 THE WITNESS: To this request. 16 Q. (By Mr. Hand) So, then, you have other 17 documents at home relevant to asbestos or refinery 18 operations that you did not bring? 19 A. I may find some that I did not see before, 20 but I doubt it. I don't think I have any more 21 lef t. 22 Q. I will mark, then, as Exhibits 9A and 9B 23 the Baird/Hammond/Bennison article and the 24 Eisenstadt/Wilson article. 25 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003531 67 1 (AN ARTICLE REGARDING "AN ANALYSIS OF 2 CANCER MORTALITY IN EMPLOYEES AND 3 ANNUITANTS OF AN OIL COMPANY AND AN OIL 4 PIPE LINE COMPANY," AUTHORED BY DRS. 5 BAIRD, HAMMOND, AND BENNISON, CONSISTING 6 OF 3 PAGES, WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION 7 AS JAMES HAMMOND EXHIBIT 9A, A COPY OF 8 WHICH IS ATTACHED) 9 10 (AN ARTICLE REGARDING "PRIMARY MALIGNANT 11 MESOTHELIOMA OF THE PLEURA," AUTHORED BY 12 DRS. EISENSTADT AND WILSON, CONSISTING OF 13 4 PAGES, WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS 14 JAMES HAMMOND EXHIBIT 9B, A COPY OF WHICH 15 IS ATTACHED) 16 17 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Professor, did you search 18 your files yourself or did Exxon personnel help 19 you? 20 A. A combination of the two of us. 21 Q. In what way did Exxon personnel help you? 22 A. They reproduced some articles that we were 23 able to locate. 24 Q. So is it the case, then, that you searched 25 the files yourself and located the responsive NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX- 68 1 documents and delivered them to Exxon and Exxon 2 merely photocopied them for you? 3 A. In general, yes. But I had furnished them 4 with copies over a period of several years, so to 5 speak; and they had some of them in files that I 6 did not have in my file. 7 Q. And they have brought those documents here 8 today that you have delivered to them at an earlier 9 date? 10 A. Some of them were furnished through them 11 at an earlier date, before this request. 12 Q. So some of these documents that you have 13 brought with you here today are no longer in your 14 possession; is that correct? 15 A. That's true. 16 Q. How would you be able to tell me which 17 ones are in your possession and which ones are in 18 Exxon's files only? 19 A. I could not tell you. 20 Q. So, then, when I asked you that earlier 21 question. Professor, whether there are any 22 documents that are in your professional files five 23 years ago, other than the ones that were stolen 24 that are no longer in your files today and you said 25 no, that was incorrect; isn't that true? NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003533 69 1 A. No, because some of those documents that I 2 passed on to them came into my possession within 3 the last year or two that I then passed along. 4 Q. Are you telling me, then, that all 5 documents that you have handed over to Exxon and no 6 longer have in your files, none of those were in 7 your files five years ago? 8 MS. KYLE: I don't think that's what he is 9 saying either* I think that's a 10 mischaracterization of his testimony, that 11 Professor Hammond can straighten you out. 12 A. I will repeat my answer, was that I 13 have -- some of the documents that you have here 14 today, I did not have in my possession five years 15 ago; but I passed them on in the various times 16 since that five-year period, as they have come into 17 my possession, to the Exxon. 18 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Why have you done that? 19 A. Because I have helped them with -- as a 20 consultant to them for several years. 21 Q. Let me ask the question again. Are there 22 any documents that were in your files five years 23 ago, other than the ones that were stolen, that you 24 no longer possess today? 25 MS. KYLE: I am going to object. 1 I \ i NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 EXX-MOR-003534 70 1 A. No, I don't think there were; but 2 anyway 3 MS. KYLE: I am going to object. It's 4 been asked and answered and beat to death. 5 MR. KAZAN: It hasn't been beaten to 6 death. It's been asked and answered and answered 7 several different ways. And he is simply trying to 8 get one clear answer so we have a record that makes 9 sense. 10 MS. KYLE: It's been asked and answered, 11 and it's been answered clearly. He has said he has 12 had documents within his possession within the past 13 five years. I think he has given a very clear 14 answer. 15 MR. HAND: Let me see, then, if I 16 understand it. 17 Q. (By Mr. Hand) There are some documents 18 that you have previously possessed and you have 19 turned over to Exxon, you no longer have copies of; 20 but in all those instances that occurred with 21 respect to documents you only received within the 22 last five years? 23 A. To my knowledge, that's the only ones I 24 have passed along to them. 25 Q. The next category. No. 18, asks you to NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003535 71 1 bring with you the May 6th, 1957 letter that you 2 sent to Dr. J. W. Osborn. 3 Do you still have in your possession a 4 copy of that letter? 5 MS. PETRONE: It sounds, to me, from the 6 request that you may have a copy of that letter. 7 MR. HAND: I am not stupid enough to ask 8 for just documents I have already had. 9 MS. PETRONE: You had the day, date, and 10 who it was to and from. 11 MR. HAND: I know who it was to and from, 12 but I don't have a copy of it. 13 MS. KYLE: I don't think James has a copy 14 of the letter either. 15 MR. HAND: Does Exxon have a copy of the 16 letter? 17 MS. KYLE: I don't have a copy of the 18 letter. 19 MR. KAZAN: Move to strike as 20 nonresponsive. 21 MS. KYLE: Then quit asking me questions. 22 MR. KAZAN: I thought we were being 23 cooperative. He asked you if you had it. You as a 24 lawyer say, I do not have it. The obvious 25 impregnated in that answer is that Exxon does have j t NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. `f EXX-MOR-003536 72 1 it, but you don't think they do -- either Exxon 2 does have it or Exxon doesn't have it or I don't 3 know. And as a favor, I will be glad to find out. 4 Let's not play games. 5 MS. KYLE: Mr. Kazan, you do not represent 6 a party involved in the notice of Mr. Hand. If he 7 needs your assistance, I can appreciate the fact 8 that you are here. However, if we can move on with 9 this deposition, I will not be quite so hostile. I 10 think we would do a bit better job. 11 MR. KAZAN: If you would be a little less 12 snide. I am not here to help him. I am here 13 because I agreed withyour counsel in California 14 that I would be present so I would have an 15 opportunity to do his discovery deposition before 16 your videotape. 17 MS. KYLE: I had no notice that I was 18 going to do your -- you were supposed to do your 19 discovery before my videotape. We plan to do an in 20 re deposition. Those are the documents that we 21 produced to you last week. We have notice of James 22 Hand's deposition proceeding Monday, Tuesday, until 23 he is finished. I have no notice of your doing a 24 discovery deposition prior to an in re video that 25 we have planned. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003537 73 1 MR. KAZAN: Well, maybe you ought to talk 2 to the lawyers you hired in California. 3 MR. HAND: In any case - 4 MS. KYLE: Are we going to proceed with 5 James Hand's deposition that you noticed? 6 James Hand noticed a deposition. Can we 7 proceed with James Hand's noticed deposition of 8 James Hammond? 9 MR. HAND: I am going to ask some more 10 questions, but have you ask the same request; that 11 is, that if Exxon has a copy of these documents, 12 because Professor Hammond has turned over Document 13 18, 19, or 20 to Exxon, I would appreciate it if 14 Exxon would produce a copy. 15 MS. KYLE: We will look. 16 MR. HAND: Do you think you will be in a 17 position to let me know tomorrow or by Wednesday, 18 at least, whether you have such a document? 19 MS. KYLE: I will do my best. A formal 20 document request on the record? 21 MR. HAND: Yes. 22 MS. KYLE: I will do my best. We need to 23 straighten this out, I guess, while we are touching 24 on it. Now, what I have done in the past and what 25 I would prefer doing during discovery depositions. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. i EXX-MOR-003538 74 1 if document issues do arise and you want to make a 2 request, due to the length of the deposition, the 3 hours, the time, I would appreciate it if you could 4 send me a short note -- it doesn't have to be a 5 formal document request, just send me a note 6 requesting the document -- that would help my 7 entire organization comply with your request. 8 MR. HAND: I am not exactly at my office 9 or in a position to send you a very nice note. 10 MS. KYLE: I can appreciate that. 11 MR. HAND: But I think I have made clear 12 that what I am looking for are the speeches in 13 Category 12, the documents specifically listed in 14 18, 19, and 20 and the petrochemical benzene 15 article. Category 8. So that's all. If you would 16 be kind enough to take a list of those. I am 17 willing to make this reasonable. 18 Of course, I am very concerned that 19 Professor Hammond has turned over certain documents 20 to Exxon. I appreciate actually that Exxon is 21 producing some of those documents - 22 MS. KYLE: I started to say - 23 MR. HAND: -- that Professor Hammond has 24 turned over to Exxon because literally they 25 wouldn't be embraced in the scope of the notice. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003539 75 1 except to the extent that Exxon Is in a sense 2 acting as professor's agent here. - 3 But be that as it may, I am willing to 4 work with you and cooperate with you folks if, in 5 return, there is reasonable cooperation on the 6 other side. 7 MR. BISHOP: While we are on the subject 8 of Exxon being agreeable and reasonable and 9 helpful, I would like to have identified -- and 10 this can be done at a break, but I would like to 11 have identified the documents that were provided to 12 Steve Kazan. Depending on what they are, I would 13 like to discuss whether or not they can be provided 14 to me during the course of this deposition. 15 MS. PLUNKETT: I will join in that 16 request. 17 MS. KYLE: That's a fair request. 18 MR. HAND: When we get to those issues - 19 which we may get to later -- and it's your turn to 20 ask questions, Mr. Bishop, you are welcome to ask 21 whatever you like. MR. BISHOP: Thank you. 22 23 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Then there is Category 19, 24 which asks you to bring with you. Professor, the 25 January 15, 1973 letter that youwrote to ( j j . > j j ; ' J . ' ' 1 1 ( , J NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003540 76 1 C. B. Moore with the subject "Re: Refinery Programs 2 for Handling Asbestos." 3 Do you recall writing such a letter? 4 MS. KYLE: Excuse me. 19, I believe you 5 skipped. 6 MR. HAND: That's what I am on, is 19. 7 THE WITNESS: C. B. Moore. 8 MS. KYLE: This is it. 9 10 (DISCUSSION BETWEEN THE WITNESS AND HIS 11 COUNSEL) 12 13 THE WITNESS: He is talking about a 14 letter, only the letter. 15 MS. KYLE: This is the letter. 16 THE WITNESS: Okay. All right. There it 17 is. I was thinking possibly there was an 18 attachment to this, maybe, that might have given 19 details about the program. 20 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Professor, the letter 21 refers to an attachment, a safe handling guide 22 sheet from the Baton Rouge refinery. Do you still 23 have in your possession a copy of that safe 24 handling guide sheet from the Baton Rouge 25 refinery? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003541 77 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. I do not. Q. Do you still have in your possession a copy of this letter from you to C. B. Moore? A. I see the letter. Again, that may be one of those articles that -- or letter that Exxon law department has. I don't have a copy of it but I am not sure, but that's in reply to your Request 19. Q. Professor, when a letter includes attachments, I regard the attachments as part of a letter; and I don't think that I should have to ask separately for all attachments or enclosures that go with a letter. I would like for you to look at your files overnight and see if you possess a copy of this letter so that I can determine what's in your files and what's coming from Exxon and see if you have the attachments to this letter. Is that agreeable to you? A. I would suggest that you look back through these files to make sure we don't have such attachment in that material. It seems to me that I have seen it today. I have. MS. KYLE: Is this your attachment? Is this it, Jim? THE WITNESS: Yes, this is the attachment. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. ,* EXX-MOR-003542 78 1 Q. (By Mr. Hand) That is the attachment to 2 that letter? 3 A. That's the attachment. 4 Q. Can I see the letter again? 5 So what you have identified is the 6 document marked as Exhibit 7 to this transcript 7 entitled "Asbestos Handling Guide Lines." 8 I am a little confused. Professor, because 9 your letter refers to "a safe handling guide sheet 10 from the Baton Rouge Refinery." This document, 11 dated September 1, 1972, that's not a safe handling 12 guide sheet from the Baton Rouge refinery, is it? 13 A. It would be applied to any refinery in the 14 company; and it was the one that I approved and 15 sent along, as well as whatever that other sheet 16 might have said. But this -- it would be found in 17 that publication, everything. 18 Q. This September 1, 1972 document is not a 19 publication from the Baton Rouge refinery, is it? 20 It's your publication. 21 A. That's my publication, but I was the 22 director of the industrial hygiene. And anything 23 that came to Baton Rouge, I would have had the 24 privilege to incorporate it or to edit it and send 25 it along. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003543 79 1 Q. I appreciate that. But while this 2 document has the Baytown engineering standard -3 this is not the document you were referring to from 4 the Baton Rouge refinery, is it? The Baton Rouge 5 refinery document is another document. Let me find 6 that one for you, if I may. The Baton Rouge 7 document is one you got from Fred Venable, isn't 8 it? Let me see if I can't locate that document for 9 you. 10 MS. KYLE: I tell you what, then. Since 11 it's almost 3:00 and we started at 2:00, let's take 12 a short break while you find that. 13 MR. HAND: Fine. 14 15 (A BRIEF RECESS WAS HAD) 16 17 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Professor Hammond -18 A. Yes. 19 Q. -- I'd like for you to take a look 20 overnight at your letter to Mr. Moore to see if you 21 have these attachments to it. Is that agreeable to 22 you? 23 A. I do not have them. I will say that my 24 attachment that went to him would have been the one 25 you have, if I can find it. . j ) j1 - j j 1 I NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 EXX-MOR-003544 80 1 Q. You mean this document marked Exhibit 7 2 which did not come from the Baton Rouge refinery 3 whatsoever? 4 A. No, it did not. It had to come through my 5 office to be passed on to anyone else. 6 Q. Professor Hammond, isn't that the document 7 that came from the Baton Rouge refinery that you 8 referred to as the one regarding safe handling 9 guidelines? 10 A. I do not know if that was the original one 11 or not. I don't recognize It. I don't recall. 12 Q. That's a document you received - 13 A. This is the only document that I can 14 identify. 15 Q. Would you be willing to look overnight at 16 your document that you sent to Mr. Moore and see if 17 there are any attachments? 18 A. I do not know. My purpose in looking at 19 it and what you have asked me, I -- as I have told 20 you, I would have prepared this document; and this 21 became the document that went to all the 22 refineries, including Baton Rouge, and became the 23 basic study for them. 24 Q. Professor Hammond, your January 15, 1973 25 letter says: "Attached is a safe handling guide NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003545 81 1 sheet from Baton Rouge Refinery." This 2 exhibit 7 - 3 A. Obviously that sheet had been detached 4 from that letter; and I do not know where it is, if 5 there be one. 6 Q. What you are telling me is that you have a 7 copy of this letter? 8 A. I do not have a copy. I do not have a 9 copy of the letter, other than my personal copy. 10 Q. This exact copy? 11 A. This one probably came from me or someone 12 else or they found it in the file somewhere, but I 13 do not have a copy of it. 14 Q. You do not have a copy of the January 15, 15 1973 letter to Mr. Moore; is that correct? 16 A. I do not have that unless it was for the 17 purpose of transmitting this particular document to 18 him. 19 Q. If it was for the purpose of transmitting 20 this particular document, would you have a copy of 21 this January 15, 1973 letter? 22 A. I do not think I would have, huh-uh. 23 Q. If you have less than three file drawers 24 full of documents, are you willing to look 25 overnight to see if you have a copy of this NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX- 82 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 January 15, 1973 letter? MS. KYLE: I am going to object to the line of questioning. Professor Hammond has already done the search in response to your request for production. He did not have the attachments with the letter. I fail to see why he needs to go through his file drawers again. MR. HAND: Ms. Kyle, I appreciate that Professor Hammond has done some search; but as a result of this search, he doesn't even know if he has a copy of this letter or not. I would like the professor to look and see if he has a copy of that letter because I am entitled to know whether the documents are coming from Exxon or coming from the professor. And if he has a copy of the letter, I would like to know whether there are any attachments to it. A. I did not have a copy of this letter. I looked through my files and I was searching for this type of information, but I did not find the copy that I had in my possession. Q. So your testimony - A. I don't have one. Q. This document came from Exxon. It doesn't come from your files because you don't have a NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003547 83 1 copy? 2 A. That's true. 3 MR. KAZAN: Identify it again. 4 Q. (By Mr. Hand) And this document is the 5 January 15, 1973 letter to Mr. Moore from you; 6 right? You do not have a copy of this letter? 7 A. I do not have a copy of that letter. 8 MR. WALLACE: Are you going to mark that? 9 THE WITNESS: 1973? Yeah, January 15, 10 1973, not '72. I'd like it on the record that this 11 was prepared in September, 1972. 12 MR. KAZAN: Professor, when you say 13 "this," could you tell us what exhibit you are 14 looking at so we have a record that we can follow? 15 THE WITNESS: Exhibit 7. 16 MR. KAZAN: Thank you. 17 See, all she can do is write down the word 18 "this." She can't write down you are holding up 19 something and tell us what it is. 20 Q. (By Mr. Hand) We will mark, then, as 21 Exhibit 10 to this transcript the January 15, 1973 22 letter. 23 24 (A LETTER, DATED JANUARY 15, 1973, TO 25 C. B. MOORE FROM JAMES HAMMOND, CONSISTING ,I NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. i EXX-MOR-003548 84 1 OF 1 PAGE, WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION 2 AS JAMES HAMMOND EXHIBIT 10, A COPY OF 3 WHICH IS ATTACHED) 4 5 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Do you have. Professor 6 Hammond, and have you brought here today the 7 article, or any copy thereof, that you authored or 8 coauthored entitled "Hygiene Problems in the 9 Textile Industry" that appeared in the May, 1947 10 edition of Safety Engineering? 11 A. I do not. 12 Q. Have you at any time in the last five 13 years had in your possession a copy of that 14 article? 15 A. I have not seen it, no. 16 Q. You did author such an article, didn't 17 you? 18 A. 1947? 19 Q. Uh-huh. 20 A. It was in the files that was stolen, I'm 21 sure. I am not positive, but I am sure it was. 22 Q. And you did author such an article, didn't 23 you? 24 A. I delivered a talk of that nature, and 25 then that was copied by the engineering -- safety NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003549 85 1 engineering group. 2 Q. And then they published it? 3 A. Yes, uh-huh. So it's on public record. 4 Q. This is your counsel's copy of the 5 subpoena with the one dollar attached. I don't 6 want you to give it to me. I will let your counsel 7 keep it for her copy. 8 MS. KYLE: This is Professor Hammond's. 9 He has the ability to do with this dollar whatever 10 he pleases. 11 MR. KAZAN: I bet he even remembers a time 12 when you could do something useful with a dollar. 13 THE WITNESS: Amen. 14 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Professor Hammond, another 15 document you brought to us that I think falls in 16 one of the earlier categories is what appears to be 17 a reprint of two speeches given to the 26th 18 National Safety Congress, one entitled "The 19 Engineer's Part in Eliminating Dust Hazards" and 20 the other entitled "The Doctor's Part in 21 Controlling Dust Hazards." 22 I will mark those as Exhibit 5-0 to this 23 transcript. 24 25 (THE REPRINT OF TWO SPEECHES GIVEN TO THE \ if NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. i i EXX-MOR-003550 86 1 2 6TH NATIONAL SAFETY CONGRESS, ENTITLED 2 "THE ENGINEER'S PART IN ELIMINATING DUST 3 HAZARDS," WRITTEN BY ARTHUR S. JOHNSON AND 4 "THE DOCTOR'S PART IN CONTROLLING DUST 5 HAZARDS," WRITTEN BY A. D. LAZENBY, 6 CONSISTING OF 4 PAGES, WAS MARKED FOR 7 IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES HAMMOND EXHIBIT 8 5-0, A COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED) 9 10 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Professor, other documents 11 that you have brought here today, can you tell me 12 which of them you had in your possession prior to 13 14 A The Bonsib report. 15 Q Did you have in your possession any other 16 documents 17 MR. HAND: Strike that. 18 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Did you have in your 19 possession prior to 1970 any of the other documents 20 you have brought here today? 21 A. It's obvious, as far as the dates are 22 concerned, whether or not those were before 1970; 23 but I don't recall any. 24 Q. In other words, other than by date, you 25 could not tell me which ones you had in your NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003551 87 1 possession before 1970 and which you have been 2 given in the last few years by some attorney? 3 A. I do not know. 4 MS. KYLE: I am going to object to the 5 form of the question. I think that's without 6 foundation as to the only sources of documents 7 given to him, by an attorney or prior to 1970. 8 Professor frequents libraries. He is an 9 intelligent fellow. He likes to learn, and I am 10 sure he goes to a library every once in a while on 11 his own. 12 MR. HAND: You are welcome to establish 13 such a fact on your own if you want, Ms. Kyle. 14 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Professor, you have brought 15 with you here a document on the stationery of 16 Humble Oil & Refining Company; but it's such a poor 17 copy, I can't make out the date, who it's addressed 18 to, or portions of the contents. Most of the 19 contents are illegible. Who did you send that 20 letter to? 21 2 2 (DISCUSSION BETWEEN THE WITNESS AND HIS 23 COUNSEL) 24 25 A. It satisfies his request. This satisfies K.l 1 .\ I 1 NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES, INC. 1 EXX-MOR-003552 00 88 1 your request for the Osborn letter. 2 Q. (By Mr. Hand) This is the document 3 described in Category 18, the May 6th, 1957 Hammond 4 letter to Dr. J. W. Osborn? 5 Is this the May 6, 1957 letter from you to 6 Dr. il. W. Osborn? 7 A. Under what category is that? 8 Q. 9 A. 18, yes. That's mine. 10 Q. I thought you said 20 minutes ago that you 11 didn't have a copy of that document. Professor. 12 MS. KYLE: I am going to object. I think 13 the tone of your question is argumentative. There 14 are many documents on this table that Professor 15 Hammond has brought to this deposition. If it 16 slipped his mind that he produced the document, 17 that's one thing. The document is obviously here. 18 and he found it for you. 19 A. That's right. 20 Q. (By Mr. Hand) You did tell me some half 21 hour ago that you didn't have this document with 22 you here, didn't you? 23 A. No, I did not. You didn't ask me if I 24 ever had it here, because I thought you had them in 25 front of you and you could look at them and see NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003553 89 1 what you had here. 2 Q. Because, Professor, this is such a poor. 3 illegible copy in places, I would like for you to 4 bring tomorrow to the deposition the document that 5 you had from which this photocopy was made. 6 MR. HAND: Is that agreeable to counsel 7 for Exxon? 8 A. I do not have a document better than that 9 one. I might not even have that one. 10 Q. (By Mr. Hand) This is photocopied from 11 whatever you have in your possession or Exxon's 12 possession; is that right? 13 MS. KYLE: We can bring the copy -- if 14 there is no original, the copy that the copy was 15 made from. 16 MR. HAND: Please. 17 MR. KAZAN: Could I request that -- it 18 appears that this is a somewhat shrunken 19 photocopy. If you have the full-sized original. 20 that would probably be more legible. 21 MS. KYLE: What we will do is bring the 22 copy that this was made from. 23 MR. HAND: Please. 24 MS. KYLE: We will bring the copy that 25 that was made from. ,l . '> 1 i | 1 1 I '1 J "i 1 '! i I 1 ! NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. i '*] EXX-MOR-003554 90 1 MR. HAND: I am sure you will appreciate 2 the problem, and that is one of legibility. And 3 despite Exxon co-counsel's remark, I may have known 4 this document existed? but I have never seen this 5 document before. 6 A. Well, we passed it out to you this 7 afternoon. 8 Q. (By Mr. Hand) And you also said that you 9 didn't think you had it this afternoon. 10 A. I do not have it. You have it. We both 11 can't have the same copy. 12 Q. Then what I will do is mark as Exhibit 11 13 this May 6th, 1957 letter. 14 15 (THE HUMBLE OIL & REFINING COMPANY LETTER, 16 DATED MAY 6, 1957, FROM JAMES HAMMOND TO 17 DR. J. W. OSBORN, CONSISTING OF 4 PAGES, 18 WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES 19 HAMMOND EXHIBIT 11, A COPY OF WHICH IS 20 ATTACHED) 21 22 Q. (By Mr. Hand) You have brought here 23 today. Professor Hammond, four pages, beginning 24 with the subject Insulating Operations Out of the 25 Bonsib Report as a separate document. Why is NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003555 91 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that? A. I was referring back to the basic documents that you had. Q. You mean, you would refer me back to the Bonsib report? A. Surely I would. Q. But my question is: Why have you brought this here as a separate document, these four pages? A. Because it was loose in my files somewhere else someplace, has been removed from the document. MS. KYLE: It's responsive to the request. Q. (By Mr. Hand) So you brought -- you have in your file, then, the full Bonsib report and also these four pages as a separate document? A. I have the original Bonsib report that belongs to me. That's all. copies of that, no. I don't have any more - Q. You have in your files these four pages as a separate document, separate and apart from the Bonsib report itself? A. I answered you already. No. Q. But why have you brought these four pages here today as a separate document? A. Because I found them and I didn't want to / s i I ~ - I NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003556 92 1 leave anything out, so far as possible, and 2 included even that again. 3 MS. KYLE: Are you asking him what he has 4 in his files? He brought this stuff to us. We 5 copied it, and we haven't given it back to him. So 6 he doesn't have it in his file today, but he will 7 as soon as I give him his originals back. Okay? 8 Q. (By Mr. Hand) So you had this or you may 9 have had this as a separate document in your files; 10 but because you turned your files over to Exxon, 11 you don't realize that you have this as a separate 12 document in your files. Is that correct? 13 A. That's right. I cannot tell you why it 14 was separated from the original document, though. 15 MR. HAND: Well, I do not need a copy of 16 this separate and apart from the Bonsib report. So 17 perhaps counsel for Exxon would like to take that 18 back. 19 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Another document you 20 brought here today, which I think we should have 21 marked earlier as Exhibit 5P, is a copy of your 22 article, "Now They're Blueprinting Industrial 23 Hygiene," published in the November 21, 1955 24 edition of The Oil & Gas Journal. 25 Is that what this document is that I am NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003557 93 1 handing you now? 2 A. This looks to be an excerpt from somebody. 3 material -- of some of the material which I 4 prepared for the API and delivered out in the API 5 meeting in 1955 in San Francisco. * 6 Q. Let me direct your attention. Professor, 7 to Page 4 of your curriculum vitae at the bottom. 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Is this document, which is an article 10 entitled "Now They're Blueprinting Industrial 11 Hygiene," another document that was published in 12 the November 21, 1955 edition of The Oil & Gas 13 Journal? 14 A. I believe it is a portion of that 15 article. 16 Q. Do you think the article was longer than 17 this? 18 A. Unless we have it here. Let's see what 19 article it is. 20 Q. Well, I have here a document you brought. 21 a seven-page article. 22 MS. KYLE: Do you need your CV? 23 THE WITNESS: No. I need the article that 24 was delivered before the API meeting. 25 MS. KYLE: That would be the one in San / (\ I .1 1 1 1 i ) ! i J| a1 n NELL MC CALLUM ft ASSOCIATES, INC. <i '1 EXX-MOR-003558 94 1 Francisco? 2 THE WITNESS: Yes. 3 MS. KYLE: That one, he did not request. 4 That one, you did not bring. Okay? 5 THE WITNESS: But it is from the same - 6 this is the same material that's in that. 7 Q. (By Mr. Hand) That article wasn't 8 actually an article. It was a speech that you 9 gave, isn't it? 10 A. Yes. And this was taken from that 11 speech. 12 Q. Word for word? 13 A. I didn't say that. I said I thought it 14 was a rewrite or an abstract of some portion of 15 that speech, but I would have to see the full 16 speech before I knew what portion it was. 17 Q. Do you know whether that's a full 18 reprint -- full printing of the article itself? 19 A. No, I do not know that. 20 Q. That is an article that you published in 21 the November 21, 1955 edition of The Oil & Gas 22 Journal; isn't that correct? 23 A. I did not publish it. I did not submit 24 them for publication, but they probably copied it 25 and put it in there. I did not submit it for NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003559 .. 95 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 publication. Q. So am I correct, then, that The Oil & Gas Journal in its November 21, 1955 edition published an article entitled "Now They're Blueprinting Industrial Hygiene" containing information that came from you? A. I would say that they changed inasmuch as I never had the title that was given to that article in my paper or my paper as the title of the paper. So we would have to see where they made the changes and so forth, but I couldn't vouch for the substance of this one because I did not write it and send it to them. MR. KAZAN: Can I ask something? MR. HAND: Sure. MR. KAZAN: Professor, I will be sure I understand you. Is it correct that you gave a talk; and the editors of this journal, based upon the contents of your talk, prepared an article which they published in their journal? THE WITNESS: As I said, I do not know without the original article whether it's verbatim what they published or whether they rewrote it or abstracted it or what. MR. KAZAN: That's not what I was trying II if r NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. J EXX-MOR-003560 96 1 to ask. My question is, first of all: You gave a 2 talk at this meeting; right? 3 MR. HAND: In San Francisco of the API? 4 MR. KAZAN: San Francisco, API meeting. 5 THE WITNESS: He told me he ha d a copy of 6 that already. 7 MR. KAZAN: I understand. You gave a talk 8 at a meeting in San Francisco; correct? 9 THE WITNESS: I did. 10 MR. KAZAN: And the talk of that meeting 11 was on the general subject matter that's in this 12 article; is that correct? 13 THE WITNESS: It was on the industrial 14 hygiene program for the petroleum industry. 15 MR. KAZAN: And sometime after your talk, 16 this article appeared in the Journal; is that 17 correct? 18 THE WITNESS: That is what I think had 19 happened. 20 MR. KAZAN: All right. Now, is the 21 content of this article in general terms, not word 22 for word but in general, about the same subject 23 matter that was your talk? 24 THE WITNESS: I would not know unless I 25 saw the original article. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003561 97 1 MR. KAZAN: Okay. Well - 2 MS. KYLE: So we think he has answered the 3 question. He does not know. 4 MR. KAZAN: Have you read this article 5 that you produced here today? 6 THE WITNESS: I have read that article, 7 and it was in my files is the reason that it is 8 here. 9 MR. KAZAN: Okay. And the article says 10 that it's by J. W. Hammond. And if I understand 11 you correctly, what you are telling us is that you 12 didn't actually write this article and submit it to 13 the Journal; is that correct? 14 THE WITNESS: I did not submit it to the 15 Journal. 16 MR. KAZAN: Did you read it after it was 17 published? 18 THE WITNESS: I read It. 19 MR. KAZAN: Okay. Did -- even though you 20 didn't write the article word for word and submit 21 it, did the article correctly reflect your views at 22 the time? 23 MS. KYLE: You are asking him a present 24 tense question, does he now think that it reflects 25 his views at the time, when he does not have the NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX- 98 1 San Francisco paper in front of him. 2 MR. KAZAN: No. My question was, did the 3 article -- when you read it after it was published. 4 did the article correctly reflect your views at the 5 time it was published? 6 MS. KYLE: On industrial hygiene? 7 MR. KAZAN: On whatever is in the article. 8 MS. KYLE: Not on the San Francisco and 9 its analogy to the San Francisco paper? 10 MR. KAZAN: Yeah. 11 MS. KYLE: Do you follow? 12 MS. PETRONE: If you recall. 13 THE WITNESS: I am given much credit of 14 when I remember, think, reaction to this when I saw 15 it, which would have been 37 years ago. I can't 16 recall. 17 MR. KAZAN: But you did see it shortly 18 after it was published? 19 THE WITNESS: I think I did, yes. 20 MR. KAZAN: Do you have any recollection 21 of writing a letter to the editor, criticizing them 22 for misquoting you or misstating your views? 23 THE WITNESS: I don't recall that I wrote 24 any letter or took any action about it. 25 MR. KAZAN: Okay. Fine. Thank you. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003563 99 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. (By Mr. Hand) And you do list this paper on your curriculum vitae as one of your articles? A. It was. My secretary put that in the files that was in the boxes that I told you about; and, therefore, it was listed. Q. On your curriculum vitae? A. Uh-huh. MS. KYLE: I appreciate Mr. Kazan straightening out the line of questioning; however, I do want to point out that one attorney should be asking the questions at a deposition. If it's Mr. Hand's deposition, then I would prefer Mr. Hand did the questioning. I realize that you can assist Mr. Hand very freely at this time to straighten out the record, but I would request that one do the questioning of Professor Hammond. MR. KAZAN: Do you mean at a time or forever? MS. KYLE: Well, Mr. Kazan, you do not represent a party to this case. MR. KAZAN: I don't want to have this argument with you again. I asked a very simple question. Are you now saying that you aren't going to permit me to ask questions of this witness, or NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX- 100 1 are you simply saying that you would rather 2 Mr. Hand complete his questioning before any of the 3 other attorneys ask their questions? 4 MS. KYLE: I would say at this point if we 5 are going to -- I would say that I prefer Mr. Hand 6 ask the questions of Professor Hammond. It's 7 easier for the witness to focus on one attorney, to 8 try to get his line of questioning straight, try to 9 get the answering straight. And I would prefer 10 Mr. Hand to ask the questions; and I would also 11 stress again, Mr. Kazan, that I do not believe that 12 you have the right to ask questions at this 13 deposition. You do not represent a party. Okay? 14 I would question your standing at the 15 deposition, and we can go forth with this again. I 16 had checked with corporate San Francisco counsel 17 who assures me that she in no way agreed to your 18 conducting a discovery deposition prior to the 19 in re deposition. 20 MR. KAZAN: And who is this? 21 MS. KYLE: Susan Ogdai, O G D A I. We 22 could get that counsel on the phone and we can 23 straighten this matter out, but I have been assured 24 that there was no agreement with her office that 25 you conduct a discovery deposition prior to the in NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003565 101 1 re. We have notice of James Hand. That's what we 2 are here for today. 3 MR. KAZAN: Let me inquire so we have this 4 clearly on the record. Are you saying that you do 5 not intend to permit me to ask any questions of 6 this witness either during these proceedings or in 7 any other discovery proceeding prior to the 8 commencement of your videotaped deposition? 9 MS. KYLE: I am going to take that under 10 advisement. I would be more than happy to discuss 11 that with you later, and then I will enter my 12 opinion on the record. Right now I fail to see why 13 you have standing to ask any question at this 14 deposition. 15 If it was noticed in cases which -- if you 16 can help me see where you do represent a party in 17 the cases for which James Hand issued his notice, I 18 would be more than happy to talk with you about 19 that. 20 MR. KAZAN: I would like a straightforward 21 answer. 22 MS. KYLE: At this point, no. I would 23 prefer that you did not ask questions at this 24 deposition. 25 MR. KAZAN: And will you instruct your 1 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003566 102 1 client and your witness not to answer questions 2 that I propose? 3 MS. KYLE: Why are you persisting to ask 4 questions, Mr. Kazan? I can object to your 5 question. 6 MR. KAZAN: Would you please answer my 7 question? Are you going to instruct your client 8 and your witness, the professor, not to answer 9 questions that I put to him? 10 MS. KYLE: At this point, yes. 11 MR. KAZAN: Okay. 12 MS. KYLE: I am stating on the record, 13 however, that I am willing to discuss this with 14 you, if we can go into it now. Do you represent a 15 party in any of the cases for which Jim Hand has 16 issued his notice of deposition? 17 MR. KAZAN: I do not. 18 MS. KYLE: Then can you explain to me how, 19 under California rules, which I do not see as being 20 applicable in this deposition, you have standing to 21 ask a fact witness a question in this case? 22 MR. KAZAN: Because you have purported to 23 notice a global deposition in many cases where I do 24 represent your company's victims; and the Court in 25 Alameda County has made clear after an agreement NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003567 103 1 with your local counsel -- not Ms. Ogdai, who did 2 not bother to appear, but somebody from her 3 office -- that I would be permitted to explore and 4 do discovery of this witness beforehand. 5 And I was told that if I would attend 6 Mr. Hand's deposition, we could do it as part of 7 that. Now -8 MS. KYLE: Is this on the record? 9 MR. KAZAN: It is not on the record. In 10 San Francisco, at least, when we make agreements 11 with counsel, most of them are good by their word. 12 There is a Texas doctrine that validates the merit 13 and validity of handshake agreements. You may have 14 heard of it. It's in the oil industry. 15 MS. KYLE: I believe in living up to 16 agreements; however, Mr. Kazan, I have had it 17 represented to me by my lead counsel in 18 San Francisco that she in no way agreed to this. I 19 have said we can get Ms. Ogdai on the phone right 20 now -21 MR. KAZAN: Let's do it. 22 MS. KYLE: -- and straighten this out. 23 MR. KAZAN: Will you mark this? I am 24 going to want a transcript before the end of 25 today. . . 1 j ! f ii j i 1 NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. fj EXX-MOR-003568 104 1 Let me put you on notice that it is now 2 1:35 in San Francisco. At 2:00 tomorrow my office 3 will be in the Superior Court of Alameda County 4 seeking to quash your purported videotaped notice 5 of deposition. 6 MS. KYLE: Do what you must do. I must 7 also remind you that you could have noticed a 8 discovery deposition yourself prior to arriving 9 here in Houston. Do we have a phone in this room? 10 MR. HAND: Let's go off the record. 11 MR. KAZAN: No, let's not go off the 12 record. 13 14 TELEPHONE CONVERSATION 15 MS. KYLE: Susan, I have requested for Jim 16 Hammond's deposition that we have one attorney 17 asking questions. I think that it's easier for 18 Jim -- he is 79 years of age -- to have one 19 attorney on which to focus. We can have other 20 attorneys representing parties asking Jim Hammond 21 questions after Mr. Hand has ceased his deposition; 22 however, Mr. Kazan has now represented to me that 23 he has an agreement with your office that he is a 24 full participant. Let me ask him to elaborate on 25 the agreement he had with your office. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003569 105 1 MS. OGDAI: And with whom is this 2 agreement? 3 MR. KAZAN: Hi, Susan. 4 MS. OGDAI: Hi. Can you speak up better? 5 MR. KAZAN: Is that any better? 6 MS. OGDAI: It's a little better. 7 MR. KAZAN: Obviously I am here at Jim's 8 discovery deposition. You will recall that you 9 sent Louisa Daniels over to court when we had our 10 order shortening time on -- and I don't know if I have talked to her, but our agreement was that you 12 would produce documents and I would be given an 13 opportunity at the conclusion of Jim's questioning 14 to ask any discovery questions I had before the 15 formal videotaped deposition proceeds. 16 Your counsel here now has indicated, if I 17 get the tenor correctly, that she thinks that 18 that's improper, that because Jim has not 19 associated me as counsel for one of his clients, I 20 have no standing at this deposition, that she will 21 not permit me to ask questions when he has 22 concluded. And I presume that should I ask 23 questions, she will instruct her client, your 24 expert, not to answer them. 25 And I am simply trying to find out whether NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR- 106 1 that is or is not the position of your office so 2 that I can be guided accordingly in what I do next. 3 MS. KYLE: Now, first of all, Jim Hammond 4 is not our expert in any case. 5 MR. KAZAN: He is. You have noticed him 6 as an expert for the videotape tomorrow. 7 MS. OGDAI: No, we haven't. 8 MS. KYLE: We have noticed him as a fact 9 witness, Mr. Kazan. 10 MR. KAZAN: Let me see. 11 MR. HAND: Irrespective of that, what was 12 said -13 MS. OGDAI: You have a conversation on, 14 but I would like to respond to Steve. 15 MR. KAZAN: The deposition refers to him 16 as an industrial hygienist and I don't know that he 17 has been disclosed specifically as an expert, but 18 put that aside, he obviously has some expertise in 19 some areas. But in any event, you have noticed a 20 videotaped In Re Complex Alameda County deposition, 21 among others, for tomorrow; and obviously that's 22 the subject of my concern. 23 So, Susan, I would like to know what the 24 position is of your office. 25 MS. OGDAI: I would be happy to tell you. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003571 107 1 2 3 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Steve. In fact, I talked earlier with Louisa Daniels to make sure that there was no representation on her part that could have been misconstrued. Our understanding, our arrangement, pur discussions with David of your office, David McClain, clearly were that in an effort to help you prepare for questioning in connection with the In Re Complex notice, our videotape, that we would provide you with the documents that you needed or sought after and that you, along with any other counsel who appeared at the In Re, would have an opportunity to question Professor Hammond then. James Hand's deposition that is going on now, I presume, has been noticed by James Hand; and very specifically the case has really nothing to do with the In Re Complex video case that we are seeking to preserve Professor Hammond's testimony. No promises, no agreement was ever made that you would be able to either appear with Mr. Hand and ask questions in his cases where you are not the lawyer or ask questions, discovery questions, prior to the In Re video. MR. KAZAN: All right. Susan, is that your position? MS. 06DAI: Yes, it is. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003572 108 1 MR. KAZAN: All right. I will tell you 2 what I told your local counsel. You be in 3 Department 14 at 2:00 tomorrow for our ex parte 4 application to quash the videotape In Re deposition 5 of your witness. Thank you very much, and you will 6 probably see David there tomorrow. 7 MS. OGDAI: That's fine. 8 MR. KAZAN: Bye, Susan. 9 MS. OGDAI: Bye-bye. 10 Glenna, do you want to talk? 11 MR. KAZAN: Excuse me. We have been on 12 the record. Are you now going off the record? 13 MS. KYLE: I am going off the record. 14 15 (OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION) 16 17 MR. HAND: Let's go back on the record. 18 Q. (By Mr. Hand) This document "Now They're 19 Blueprinting Industrial Hygiene," I will mark that, 20 then, as Exhibit 5P to the transcript. 21 And I noticed that behind that document 22 and stapled to it, as if it were part of the 23 document, is the article "Keeping Well at Work" 24 from "The Humble Way." 25 Is that an article that you authored. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003573 109 1 Professor? 2 3 (AN ARTICLE ENTITLED "NOW THEY'RE 4 BLUEPRINTING INDUSTRIAL HYGIENE," DATED 5 NOVEMBER 21, 1955, CONSISTING OF 3 PAGES, 6 WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES 7 HAMMOND EXHIBIT 5P, A COPY OF WHICH IS 8 ATTACHED) 9 10 A. The Humble Way was an employee publication 11 that came out periodically right at every two 12 years, I see. It -- and it has its own editors and 13 writers. And the most that I ever had a part in 14 this, because it deals with medical as well as 15 industrial hygiene, would have been -- I might have 16 given an interview, and then they questioned me 17 about some of these areas that are covered here. 18 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Professor, this article 19 appears as one of your publications in your 20 curriculum vitae. Is this a publication of yours, 21 or isn't it? 22 A. It is not my publication, no. 23 Q. So your curriculum vitae is incorrect? 24 A. No. It just Illustrates that it's a 25 program that I was assisting in in 19 -- whatever I ) I NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003574  110 1 year that was. 2 Q. Does this publication reflect your Ideas 3 on Industrial hygiene? 4 A. It incorporates those, yes. 5 MR. HAND; I will mark that as 5Q to this 6 deposition transcript. / 8 (AN ARTICLE FROM "THE HUMBLE WAY," 9 ENTITLED "KEEPING WELL AT WORK," 10 CONSISTING OF 4 PAGES, WAS MARKED FOR 11 IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES HAMMOND EXHIBIT 12 5Q, A COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED) 13 14 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Next, Professor, I would 15 like to show you another document you brought here 16 today, entitled "Humble-Enjay Safety Regulations." 17 Do you recognize that document? 18 A. I don't recall it, but I see what it is. 19 It's a type of internal publication for employees' 20 information that we had issued on many hazardous 21 materials. 22 Q. Would these guidelines take effect only in 23 one of the Humble refineries or in all Humble 24 refineries? 25 A. These guidelines would have taken effect NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003575 111 1 years ago and just made the employee information be 2 published again in this order; but they were 3 already part of the program that had been carried 4 out at that time, 30 years or more. 5 Q. Which refineries would this document have 6 circulated to? 7 A. All refineries. 8 Q. All refineries? 9 A. And petro and chemical plants. 10 Q. Did you play any part in preparing these guidelines? 11 12 A. 1 am sure I approvedof itbefore it was 13 published. I reviewed it. 14 MR. HAND: I will mark this document 15 then, 12, Exhibit 12 to the deposition transcript. 16 17 (THE HUMBLE-ENJAY SAFETY REGULATIONS 18 DOCUMENT REGARDING "GUIDELINES FOR 19 HANDLING ASBESTOS," CONSISTING OF 1 PAGE, 20 WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES 21 HAMMOND EXHIBIT 12, A COPY OF WHICH IS 22 ATTACHED) 23 24 MR. HAND: Let's go off the record for 25 just a moment ^ 1 J ! j NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003576 112 1 2 (OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION) 3 4 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Another document you 5 brought here with you today. Professor, is a copy 6 of your March 9 -- and it reads like 1943, but I 7 believe it's 1948? 8 A. It would be '48. 9 Q. -- letter from Van Hendricks to 10 V. Baird -- 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. -- right? 13 That's the letter by which you ended up 14 receiving your copy of the 1937 Bonsib report; is 15 that right? 16 A. It is. 17 Q. At that time, 1948, that was just six 18 months or so after you started working for Humble; 19 is that right? 20 A. It was nine months. 21 Q. You started on September 1, 1947, didn't 22 you? 23 A. I did. 24 Q. So that's about six months afterwards? 25 A. Yes. Yes. I accepted employment in April NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003577 113 1 of 1937 -- '47, but I didn't report to duty until 2 September 1. I had to finish a course I was ' 3 teaching. 4 Q. At the time you began your work at Humble, 5 there was in the medical department a copy of this 6 1937 Bonsib report; isthat right? 7 A. There was a copy in the library, yes. 8 Q. And you saw it there in the libraryand 9 asked Dr. Baird to obtain a copy for you? 10 A. I did not ask him to obtain a copy. I 11 probably wrote the letter and had him to sign it. 12 Q. Why did you have him sign it as opposed to 13 your writing to Val -- Van Hendricks yourself? 14 A. The custom at that time was for the 15 doctors to go throughthemedicaldepartment. . 16 Q. Hendricks was an industrial hygienist as 17 well, wasn't he? 18 A. He was. 19 Q. Van Hendricks was the industrial -- chief 20 industrial hygienist for Standard Oil Company of 21 New Jersey; is that right? 22 A. That's right. 23 Q. How had the existence of this report first 24 come to your attention? 25 A. The report came to my attention by looking | ) "i j ' j j j j / . | . j . I NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. 3 EXX-MOR-003578 114 1 in the medical department library. 2 Q. Have you any understanding as to how a 3 copy of that report came to be in the library of 4 the medical department at Humble? 5 A. I do not know. However, it was commonly 6 used and known at the Baytown refinery where I was 7 working, also. 8 Q. When you say "working, also," even back in 9 1947, were you at 800 Bell? 10 A. No. I was on Main Street, and we had not 11 built the building on Bell at that time. 12 Q. So you were splitting your work between 13 your office on Main Street and out at the Baytown 14 refinery? 15 A. No. I was not splitting my work. That 16 was part of my responsibility when I came. I was 17 chief of industrial hygiene for the entire company, 18 not only the refineries but also the petrochemical 19 plants, also the production department, also the 20 pipeline company, the sales department, and 21 geological exploration department. I was 22 company-wide. 23 Q. What do you mean that this report, then, 24 was known at the Baytown refinery? 25 A. It was. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003579 115 1 Q. What do you mean by that? 2 MS. KYLE: Do you understand the 3 question? 4 THE WITNESS: No. 5 A. What's your question? 6 Q. (By Mr. Hand) What do you mean when you 7 say that this report was commonly known at the 8 Baytown refinery? Those were your words a few 9 moments ago. 10 MS. KYLE: "This report" being the Bonsib 11 report? 12 MR. HAND: Right. 13 A. It was. That's all. It's clear as a bell 14 to me. 15 Q. (By Mr. Hand) That the people working in 16 the plant safety and industrial hygiene at the 17 Baytown refinery knew about that report? 18 A. It was known by the medical department and 19 the safety departments. They did not have 20 industrial hygienists at Baytown at that time. 21 Q. And by that, do you mean that you believe 22 that a copy of that report was not only in the 23 library at the medical department at Humble in 24 Houston but there was also one or more copies at 25 the Baytown refinery? NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX- 116 1 A. There were. 2 MR. HAND: I will mark this document, 3 then. Exhibit 13 to the deposition. 4 5 (A LETTER, DATED MARCH 9, 1948, FROM 6 N. V. HENDRICKS TO DR. V. C. BAIRD, 7 REGARDING A COPY OF "DUST PRODUCING 8 OPERATIONS IN THE PRODUCTION OF PETROLEUM 9 PRODUCTS AND ASSOCIATED ACTIVITIES" BY 10 MR. BONSIB, CONSISTING OF 1 PAGE, WAS 11 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION AS JAMES HAMMOND 12 EXHIBIT 13, A COPY OF WHICH IS ATTACHED) 13 14 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Do you have any 15 understanding today as to whether a copy of this 16 '37 Bonsib report was at any of the other 17 refineries of Humble besides Baytown when you first 18 went to work for Humble? 19 A. Yes, I believe it was available in all the 20 medical departments of the various refineries 21 throughout the company. 22 Q. Where were the refineries located of 23 Humble in 1947? 2 4 A. In 1947 we had -- the large one was at 25 Baytown. We had one at Corpus Christl; and we had NELL NIC CALLUNI & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003581 117 1 one out in West Texas, a small one. I have 2 forgotten the name of the small town it was in. It 3 was small. 4 Q. Baytown, Corpus Christi, and what was the 5 third location? 6 A. I don't remember the name; but it's a town 7 in West Texas, because it was closed shortly after 8 I came in 1948. 9 Q. When you went to work for Humble, a 10 majority of the shares of Humble were owned by 11 Standard Oil Company in New Jersey; is that 12 correct? 13 A. I believe it was about 70 percent of the 14 shares were owned by New Jersey. 15 Q. At some point did Standard Oil Company in 16 New Jersey acquire the remaining shares of Humble 17 Oil & Refining Company? 18 A. The way it went about was that Standard 19 Oil formed the new company with Humble being 20 incorporated in Exxon and then issued new stock 21 there. And only at that time in 1970 -- they only 22 issued the Standard of New Jersey stock and took 23 the other one off the market. 24 Q. I'm sorry. Professor. I didn't fully 25 understand that. You understand that about 1970 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. ,J '1 EXX-MOR-003582 118 1 Standard Oil Company-New Jersey changed its name to 2 Exxon, acquired the remaining shares of Humble, and 3 did something with the stock? I'm sorry. Can you 4 explain your understanding? 5 A. They took the Humble stock off the market 6 and issued thereafter only Standard of New Jersey 7 stock. 8 Q. That was 1970? 9 A. That was in effect in 1970. 10 Q. Did they at that time acquire the rest of 11 the Humble company? 12 A. Yes, they did, uh-huh. They bought all 13 the shares of Humble that they could get. 14 Q. And that occurred at the same time that 15 Standard changed its name to Exxon? 16 A. Yes. It was about the same year. 17 Q. Something I have never understood -- and I 18 don't know if you can clear up this for us - 19 what's the relationship between Humble, Standard, 20 and the company called Esso? What's your 21 understanding on that? 22 A. I can't explain it all to you. It was 23 rather complicated. But Humble operated under the 24 name of Humble and Humble Products and there was an 25 affiliate over in the eastern part of the States NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003583 119 1 that was called Esso Eastern and they operated 2 their products under the name Esso. 3 Q. That was an affiliate or subsidiary of 4 Humble? 5 A. No. They were just sisters, so to speak, 6 or brothers, so to speak, in the New Jersey 7 family. 8 Q. And Standard Oil Company-New Jersey owned 9 Esso? 10 A. They owned Esso, uh-huh. 11 Q. And at some point Esso disappeared back 12 into Standard Oil of New Jersey? 13 A. It disappeared into the Humble Oil & 14 Refining Company, became then the main company for 15 a short time under the name Humble, and then they 16 developed a new name of Exxon and then it was all 17 incorporated under that name. 18 Q. So at some point Esso disappeared into 19 Humble? 20 A. So far as the operations in the 50 states, 21 that is true. Esso is still a trade name that's 22 used throughout the rest of the world and still has 23 a meaning. In other words, it's still a trade name 24 throughout the rest of the world. It's only - 25 Exxon is only in the United States. NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX- 120 1 Q. When you went to work for Humble, was 2 there also a chemical manufacturing company for 3 which you were responsible? 4 A. They were not a separate company. We 5 didn't call it the Humble Chemical Company, but 6 Humble Refinery Company included chemicals that 7 manufactured chemicals under the name of Humble and 8 was part of the Humble company. 9 Q. When did the company Enjay come into 10 existence? 11 A. That was a marketing product name that was 12 used up -- well, throughout particularly the -- all 13 over. It could have been used. But it was a 14 product name that was used for marketing mainly. 15 There was no actual manufacturing company by that 16 name. 17 Q. That's ENJAY? is that right? 18 A. Enjay, the same name that's on the 19 exhibit. 20 Q. Yes. I think that's Exhibit 7 that refers 21 to the "Asbestos Handling Guide Lines" for Humble 22 Oil & Refining Company and Enjay Chemical Company; 23 is that right? 24 A. This one doesn't have Enjay. Yes. That's 25 right. Also, there is a letterhead in there that NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003585 121 1 you had there about the -- you just named it 12, or 2 something. 3 MR. KAZAN: The printed brochure? 4 THE WITNESS: There it is. 5 MR. HAND: "Humble-Enjay Safety 6 Regulations." 7 Q. (By Mr. Hand) So Humble was still in 8 existence in 1972; is that right? 9 A. That's right. 10 Q. And soon thereafter Humble was acquired 11 100 percent by Standard Oil, which then changed its 12 name to Exxon? 13 A. It did. 14 Q. Enjay Chemical Company, they were also 15 headquartered in Houston, Texas? 16 A. No. They had their headquarters in New 17 York. 18 Q. Did they manufacture in the early 1970's? 19 A. No. There wasn't a manufacturing company. 20 but marketing company, primarily. 21 Q. But you wrote "Asbestos Handling Guide 22 Lines" that applied to Enjay Chemical Company, 23 too? 24 A. Yes. That would apply to their products 25 that may be manufactured, and they were part of the 1 i . ': ) \ ) ) 1 / J ! )i '( 1 / i f | ) I ,1 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003586 122 1 management of the Humble chemical companies that 2 manufactured products for them. 3 Q. Now, this 1972 document on Page 12 refers 4 to "Corrective Action by Humble and Enjay Plants." 5 Was there an Enjay manufacturing plant in 1972? 6 A. They came into operation for a short time; 7 and then shortly, along with the change in the name 8 of Humble, they changed that on Exxon chemical 9 plants and Enjay was dropped. 10 Q. Did you ever visit any chemical 11 manufacturing facilities being operated by Enjay? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Which facilities were those? 14 A. I don't remember all of them, but they 15 were scattered all over the nation. 16 Q. This 1972 document has enclosed a Baytown 17 Engineering Standard referred to by the 18 abbreviation BTES. Have you seen such standards 19 before? 20 A. Yes, I have. 21 Q. Did each refinery issue its own 22 engineering standards? 23 A. In the beginning they did. Then -- such 24 as the Baytown group or the Baton Rouge group. But 25 then shortly after this, they became uniform; and NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES. INC. EXX-MOR-003587 123 the standards were utilized as a unit, as all of them having the same standards. Q. That happened sometime in the Seventies? A. Early Seventies. Q. This particular engineering standard from Baytown is marked Revision 1, and this engineering standard generally reflects the change from asbestos to nonasbestos insulation materials; is that correct? A. No, not necessarily. We started out in 1966 or '67 to find substitutive nonasbestos products, and we were making progress as they became available from the manufacturer suitable for the application wherever they had to be used under work conditions in the refineries and chemical plants. So it was a gradual process that the manufacturers of insulation required time to develop these type of products. Q. And in general nonasbestos insulation for lock furnace, drums, towers, columns, that all became available around 1970, '71, '72; is that right? MS. KYLE: Would you repeat that question for me? You mean in general there was an abundance of substitutes? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. I 124 1 MR. HAND: I don't think, Ms. Kyle, I need 2 you to ask my question for me. 3 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Let me ask you again. 4 Professor. 5 MS. KYLE: I will object. I think it's 6 ambiguous. I was trying to help you clarify. 7 MR. HAND: I will ask the question 8 differently so as to clear up Ms. Kyle's ambiguity. 10 Q. (By Mr. Hand) In general. Professor, ii nonasbestos insulation products for process piping, 12 drums, columns, towers, vessels, came on to the 13 market in a manner that Exxon could switch to 14 nonasbestos materials for those purposes around 15 1970, '71, '72; is that right? 16 A. I think it was cleared up more by 30 -- in 17 1966 to '67, I recommended to the engineering group 18 that we should not be buying any more asbestos 19 types of material if we could get a substitute for 20 them. The best control in all ways is to 21 substitute a nonhazardous material for the 22 hazardous material. And for that reason they were 23 working with me to isolate and to identify those 24 products that could be used and, under conditions 25 in the refinery, on what units and so forth. And NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003589 125 this is -- and this is part of the development of the evolution that took place in finding nonasbestos products. Q. And when were they able to start substituting nonasbestos insulation materials for process piping, vessels, towers, columns, et cetera? A. Very few and minor -- operations of minor locations and conditions, they could begin in 1972 . Q. Prior to 1972, the product was not available from the manufacturers? A. Not completely satisfactorily to meet the specification of the engineering operation requirements. Q. The first one that came out in substantial quantity of acceptable quality was Pabco Super Caltemp? A. I do not recall the manufacturer's name. I was not involved in the details of the manufacturer and development. Q. Well, that is an ad from the July 25, 1972 Wall Street Journal that's attached to this "Asbestos Handling Guide Lines"; isn't that correct? NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. 126 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. That Is an ad In their journal, yes. Q. And that's an ad you have seen before? A. I have seen it, yes. Q. And that was an ad of significance to you because they were indicating the availability of a nonasbestos insulation product, where previously Humble had been using an asbestos insulation material? A. In some locations we had up until that time been using it, but we were trying to stretch every means to be able to substitute a nonasbestos product whenever we had to add on to our -- let's say to renew our stock of insulating materials. Q. Well, that ad was of sufficient significance to you. Professor Hammond, that in Section K of your "Asbestos Handling Guide Lines," dated September 1, 1972, you speak of the fact that there is an "attached sheet regarding the availability of a nonasbestos insulation" and that "Johns-Manville and Owens-Corning have promised suitable materials by December" of that year. Isn't that correct? A. You see, they were competitors; and the - apparently Manville and Owens-Corning had not succeeded in accomplishing what these people had. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003591 127 1 So I am pointing that out/ that there were dozens 2 of manufacturers that were trying to prepare such 3 insulation. 4 Q. But this substantiates what you said. 5 doesn't it; that is, that the Pabco product was the 6 first of the major manufacturers to come out with 7 nonasbestos materials, and the other major 8 manufacturers were coming out with them later in 9 '72? 10 MS. KYLE: I am going to object. I don't 11 believe that that's Professor's testimony at all. 12 I think it's a mischaracterization of his 13 testimony. 14 Q. (By Mr. Hand) You can correct me if 15 that's wrong. 16 A. Yes. You're wrong. 17 Q. Okay. 18 A. There were many other manufacturers of the 19 products that were now claiming they had a suitable 20 product, but this was the only one that I had to 21 add that would permit me to attach to this to 22 illustrate that there were manufacturers now coming 23 out with these materials. 24 Q. Weren't the major manufacturers in the 25 early 1970's fiberboard through the Pabco line. ) NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. l I EXX-MOR-003592 128 1 Owens-Corning, and Johns-Manville? 2 MS. KYLE: Are you asking him if he 3 recalls the major manufacturers of asbestos in 4 1970? 5 MR. HAND: Yes. 6 A. No, I do not. There were dozens of these 7 manufacturers who were submitting their products to 8 be tested for our engineering groups to buy. 9 Q. And you have no opinion one way or another 10 whether Johns-Manville and Owens-Corning were -- 11 A. That's completely out of my line of 12 expertise. 13 Q. -- whether they were major manufacturers 14 or not? That's out of your line? 15 A. That's right. And I have no interest in 16 that, no more than I am interested in somebody that 17 can manufacture an asbestos-proof brake lining for 18 the automobiles. We still find asbestos having to 19 be used in that operation. 20 MR. HAND: I move to strike that as 21 nonresponsive. 22 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Professor, Section 4.1 of 23 these 1972 Baytown Engineering Standards speaks of 24 "insulation materials, insulation covering, 25 cements, accessories, et cetera, shall not contain NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003593 129 any asbestos." That was a change from the prior version of those engineering standards, wasn't it? A. It was not my job to write engineering standards. So I am not able to answer you at all as to that change from the year before. I had only made the recommendation that we should get out of the buying of asbestos types of materials completely. And the engineers were working the problem for it. Q. You did approve the issuance of these "Asbestos Handling Guide Lines," didn't you? A. As the front of it, my cover letter? Yes, I did approve it. Q. That is the Exhibit 7 to your transcript? A. That's true. Q. Let's finish up now, finally, the reference to the documents you brought. There are some documents that you brought that I don't need copies of. There is a copy of the 1972 OSHA standards applicable to exposures to asbestos dust. I thank you for bringing it, but I don't need a copy of that. A. It's a copy from the Federal registrar. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. 130 1 Q. And there is a copy of the article 2 entitled "Asbestosis Among the Maintenance Workers 3 and the Chemical Industry and in Oil Refinery 4 Workers" by Lillisbaum, Andrews & Silikauf printed 5 in a 1980 publication. 6 Why is it that you brought this document 7 to the deposition. Professor? 8 A. Well, that's some of the new material 9 since I have been out of the field that has been 10 published; and it came to my attention. 11 Q. Who brought this to your attention? 12 A. What journal was it in? 13 Q. You'll have to try to figure that out for 14 me. It was reprinted from another journal, and 15 it's not clear to me what journal it's in. 16 A. It's obviously been reprinted from the 17 "Biological Effects of Mineral Fibers, Volume 2." 18 It's obvious it's taken as a reprint from volumes 19 of books that have been published by L. -20 J. C. Wagner, and it is a 1980 published -- giving 21 the publication down here and so forth. 22 Q. Where did you get a copy of that? 23 A. I do not remember. I do not know. 24 Q. Has Exxon ever asked you. Professor 25 Hammond, to give them all your articles on NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003595 131 1 asbestos? 2 A. No. I have not had that request. 3 Q. Have you ever given Exxon all of your 4 articles on asbestos? 5 A. I think I have. If I hold any of them 6 back, I don't remember what -- I don't think I 7 would have anything that they don't have. 8 Q. But they now have some of those articles. 9 and you no longer have copies; is that correct? 10 A. They do. If I needed them, I could always 11 get them back from them. 12 Q. How would you know what's there? You 13 don't recall anymore everything that they have that 14 you have given to them, do you? 15 A. No, I do not. I would have to ask them to 16 go through their files to see. I am trying to 17 retire, eventually. 18 Q. I appreciate that. 19 MS. PETRONE: Again. 20 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Are there any documents 21 that Exxon has given you, in the last two months to 22 you, on the issue of asbestos exposure in oil 23 refineries? 24 A. No, they have not. 25 Q. Didn't they give you a four- or i I > ,) i ] ! '3 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. 3 EXX-MOR-003596 132 1 five-volume deposition transcript of a deposition 2 of Robert Grahn? 3 A. I saw Robert Grahn's transcript, yes. 4 Q. Does that help to refresh your memory of 5 whether Exxon has given you any documents to review 6 in the last two months in the issue of asbestos 7 exposure in refineries? : 8 MS. KYLE; I think your question was 9 ambiguous. I was sitting here, interpreting it as 10 publications. If you want to ask him about 11 depositions that he may have reviewed - 12 MR. HAND: My question, Ms. Kyle, is much 13 broader. 14 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Did you see any 15 documents - 16 MS. KYLE: I thought -- okay. Then I'll 17 formally object and say it's ambiguous. 18 MR. HAND: Perhaps in Texas the word 19 "documents" is ambiguous. Let's not tear up 20 ambiguous in California. 21 MS. KYLE: You have been talking about 22 publications. You have referenced publications. 23 You are asking him about publications. Now you are 24 talking about depositions. I think you asked him 25 if he read Robert Grahn's deposition. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003597 133 MR. HAND: I wanted to ask a broader question/ because I don't know everything Exxon has given Professor Hammond. Q. (By Mr. Hand) My question is: What documents has Exxon given you in the last two months dealing with asbestos exposure in refineries? A. You would have to help me by identifying certain ones that you were interested in. I could tell you -- like that one, I could tell you, yes, I have seen that. But others, I couldn't sit here and tell you what ones I might have seen or didn't see. MR. HAND: Well, I will be asking you and Exxon formally to bring, at least by the time of his video deposition, a copy of everything that you-all have provided to him for review, because I can't begin to guess what it is and have him confirm "yes" or "no." Is that agreeable with you-all? MS. KYLE: We will look at the Rules, and we will comply. MR. HAND: Well, the Rules certainly are in California and you-all have noticed up these depositions in California and under California NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. 134 1 procedure Is that if you-all are providing 2 documents to the witness to review - 3 MS. KYLE: In preparation for his 4 deposition. 5 MR. HAND: -- you will tell us what those 6 documents are. 7 MS. KYLE: That's exactly right. That's 8 the Rule. 9 MR. HAND: And I assume you have no 10 problem if you have given him documents in the last 11 two months addressing asbestos exposure in 12 refineries, that you-all will be kind enough before 13 we start the video deposition that you tell me what 14 those documents are. 15 MS. KYLE: Let me place this on the 16 record. We have provided Mr. Kazan with documents 17 that the Professor reviewed in preparation for that 18 deposition. 19 MR. HAND: A complete set? 20 MS. KYLE: He has the set, the Grahn 21 deposition. He has got what he looked at. 22 MR. HAND: It's not a complete set. 23 MS. KYLE: He has what Professor looked 24 at 25 MR. HAND: A complete set? NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003599 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 135 MS. KYLE: A complete set. MR. HAND: Okay. So -- MR. KAZAN: She said she would tell them about earlier. . MR. HAND: You can go through and identify that for me. MS. KYLE: Why don't you come look at them when they come look at them? MR. HAND: I am hoping that your paralegal tomorrow morning will show up with them so we can identify what that material is for the record. MS. KYLE: We are talking about a lot of documents. I would prefer to discuss this later so we can move this deposition along, bringing you to the Exxon building; but let's discuss that. I promise that we won't hurt you. Can we continue with this dep? The Professor is wearing, and it's drawing on to 4:00 -MR. KAZAN: If it helps, the material that they provided -- MS. KYLE: -- 5:00. MR. KAZAN: -- with Mr. Grahn's deposition and four-volume deposition of the Professor that you-all are passing around back there, plus another stack of stuff like that, so that it would be the / ti i j NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. i EXX-MOR-003600 136 I 1 overwhelming bulk of it, was the two deposition 2 transcripts. It's not that big a stack. ..-.3 MR. HAND: The four-volume is the one that 4 Joe Blacks did. 5 THE WITNESS: John -- that was probably 6 because you made a request for us for the Allen - 7 whatever depositions we had. 8 MR. KAZAN: I didn't say that that was 9 what he was going to review, but they provided that 10 to me. 11 MR. HAND: Is that something, again, you 12 gave to the Professor to review? 13 MS. KYLE: No. That's something that he 14 asked for, as in Mr. Kazan. 15 MR. HAND: I recall I had to fight to get 16 that one. 17 MR. KAZAN: You just don't have my 18 technique. 19 MR. HAND: I don't have your charm in any 20 ways, but I get them sooner or later. 21 MS. KYLE: Let's proceed. We have got, as 22 I calculate, four hours, to be ending in about 10 23 or 15 minutes. 24 MR. HAND: We are doing pretty well. 25 MS. KYLE: I don't want to elaborate on NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003601 137 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it, but I would like to entertain, it would be better for the Professor if he started at 10:00, took a lunch break at 12:00, came back in about 45 minutes, and came back for 2 hours. This is wearing, going from 12:30 to 5:00. MR. HAND: I appreciate, but for me to break up the deposition without a lunch break is difficult. MS. KYLE: Let's get this straight. We are doing it for Mr. Hammond. We are taking the deposition of a nonparty witness here. He has graciously consented to appear before you and talk. Why can't we do it at his convenience? You can work whenever you get up in the morning until 10:00 a.m., Jim, take a quick lunch break, do two hours and go back to work. You are two hours ahead of your office. MR. HAND: It's my custom when the person has noticed the deposition, that they set it at their schedule and their location. MS. KYLE: Well, we have started this one at 12:30. Let's start tomorrow at the Professor's convenience. THE WITNESS: 12:30 I thought was your convenience. I t I 'A 1 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. I i EXX-MOR-003602 138 1 MR. HAND: It's my convenience, but you 2 said it was all right with you as well. 3 THE WITNESS: I agreed, but I think it 4 would be more convenient for me to start at 10:00 5 in the morning and go to 12:00 and then 1:00 to 6 3:00. 7 MR. HAND: That might be your convenience, 8 but I would like to keep the schedule. 9 THE WITNESS: That's the only schedule we 10 had, was to start after 10:00. 11 MR. HAND: I have some more questions 12 here. 13 MS. KYLE: We will discuss this after, but 14 I believe that we should start this deposition at 15 10:00. Let's go. 16 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Professor, these documents 17 you have brought here today, unless counsel for 18 Exxon is going to stipulate -- which they might be 19 willing to do -- are these true and correct copies 20 of the documents that are in your files? 21 A. They are. They are not in my files 22 anymore. 23 MS. KYLE: But they soon will be returned 24 to his files. 25 Q. (By Mr. Hand) But these are true and NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003603 139 1 correct copies of the documents that you have had 2 in your possession? 3 A. I have seen, right. 4 Q. And to the extent that these documents 5 have dates on them, to the best of your knowledge, 6 these documents were created at or about the dates 7 shown thereon? 8 A. Thereabout, yes. 9 Q. Earlier you were telling us that when you 10 first went to work for Humble, there were three 11 refineries that Humble was operating: one in 12 Baytown, one in Corpus Christi, and one elsewhere 13 in West Texas; and I believe you indicated that the 14 West Texas refinery was closed down after a few 15 years. 16 A. It was closed down in about '48. The one 17 in Corpus Christi was closed down in around 1950. 18 They were only concentrating oil and chemical 19 refinery plant's at Baytown. 20 Q. At some point did you then become 21 responsible for industrial hygiene at refineries 22 other than Baytown? 23 A. In 1960, when we began to consolidate 24 between the various affiliates of the Standard of 25 New Jersey of Humble, I became the director of ! I NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. '1 EXX-MOR-003604 140 1 Industrial hygiene for the entire Country. 2 Q. And that was the director of industrial 3 hygiene for Humble or Standard Oil? 4 A. No. Standard was not ever entered into 5 it, but it was by the name of Humble we absorbed 6 the other companies. And then later the name 7 Humble was changed, and we went through two stages 8 of changing. They changed first into the Enco, 9 E N C O; and then they went from Enco to Exxon. 10 And that took a process of two or three years with 11 the name Enco. 12 Q. Approximately what time period is that? 13 A. 1968 to '72. 1969, I guess it was. 14 Q. So in 1960, then, what additional 15 refineries did you become responsible for? 16 A. One would be Baton Rouge, the big one. 17 Baton Rouge; Bayway, Bayon; Everett refinery; 18 Baltimore; the Charleston refinery; Billings, 19 Montana -- we had a small manufacturing unit in 20 Pittsburg, but really it wasn't qualified -- it was 21 more of a chemical company than it was a refinery 22 of fuels and heating oil. Those are the only ones 23 I can recall at this moment. 24 Q. That was Pittsburg, what state? 25 A. Pennsylvania. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003605 141 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. Bayway was in New York or New Jersey? A. New Jersey. Bayon's in New Jersey. Q. And Everett? A. Everett is in Boston, Massachusetts. Q. Charleston? A. South Carolina. Q. Billings, of course, is Montana. Baton Rouge is Louisiana. There is one more I am missing. Baltimore? A. Maryland. Q. And the Baton Rouge and Baytown refineries were of approximately the same size and nearly identical in operation? A. They were. Q. Were those, then, the two largest of the refineries for which you were responsible? A. They are to date. Q. And they were in 1960? A. Yes. Q. What was the next largest of them all? Was that Bayway? A. Bayway would have been. Q. From between 1947, when you started work at Humble, and until all these additional refineries came under your jurisdiction around NELL NIC CALLUM ft ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-IV 14 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I960, can you tell me approximately how often each year you would go out to the Baytown refinery? A. At least weekly, and sometimes several days in the week. So calculating it up, I would say that I would be out there at least 100 days out of the year. Q. During that time period, which would be the late 40's and throughout the 50's, did Baytown have their own industrial hygienist? A. I employed one about 1952. Q. Who was that? A. A fellow by the name of Felix Prestch. P R E S T C H, Prestch, Felix. Q. And you were working for Humble in headquarters; is that right? A. I was. Q. Were there any other industrial hygienists employed by Humble before 1960 in headquarters? A. Yes. I had one person in 1955, and the second one came on there in headquarters with me about 1960. Q. Who were those two people? A. The first one was Bill Meyer -- William Meyer, MEYER. The second one was A1 Dicrens, D I C R E N S. NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003607 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 143 Q. So by 1960, then, there were three Industrial hygienists in headquarters? A. There were. Q. Before 1960, had you ever visited any refineries being operated by Standard Oil Company-New Jersey? A. I did. Q. Which ones were they? A. Baton Rouge, Bayway, Bayon, Everett, Baltimore. Those are the only ones I remember. Q. How close in the Fifties, in terms of driving time, was the Baytown refinery to you? A. 40 minutes. Q. And the Baton Rouge refinery? A. I seldom drove to there. I most generally flew back and forth to Baton Rouge. Q. How long a drive was it to Baton Rouge? A. It would have been about five hours. Q. Why in the Fifties would you inspect or visit any of the refineries of Standard Oil Company-New Jersey? A. Well, we had a working -- agreement. professional type, between us; and we exchanged information by frequent conferences and was exchanging information. Also, we had opportunities , \ |1 ` i i | 1 i S '1 1! i J Ji1 1 I NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. J M EXX-MOR-003608 144 1 to see new units that were coming on that were 2 being placed in Baton Rouge, first, and then built 3 in Baytown later and gave me an opportunity to go 4 over to the operations and learn the problems 5 firsthand that may exist with the new operations. 6 Q. Approximately when was the Baton Rouge 7 refinery constructed? 8 A. 1908. 9 Q. And the Baytown? 10 A. 1918. 11 Q. Throughout the 1950's, can you tell me 12 approximately how often you visited the Baton Rouge 13 refinery? 14 A. About ten times a year. 15 Q. At some point Fred Venable came to be the 16 industrial hygienist at the Baton Rouge refinery? 17 A. Yes, he did, in 1951. 18 Q. What role did you play in his hiring, if 19 any? 20 A. Well, he was student at Harvard 21 University; and then he had worked for the State 22 Department of Health here in Texas. And as soon as 23 he had paid his obligations to the Texas State 24 Department of Health, he came to us to work, 25 because I had discovered him in the early days of NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003609 145 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 when he was still a student there at Harvard. Q. He received his master's degree in industrial hygiene from Harvard? A. He did. Q. Did he also study under Phil Drinker? A. He did. Q. Throughout the 1950's, approximately how often did you go to the Bayon refinery? A. A couple of times a year. And Bayway, I visited them jointly. Some years more frequent than that; but on the average, it would be at least two times a year. Q. What about the Baltimore refinery? A. I seldom went to the Baltimore refinery because of the limited amount of products they were putting out, but a lot more frequently than every two or three years. Q. Was that a much smaller refinery? A. It was. Q. And how about the Everett refinery? A. I was in the Everett refinery when I worked for the State Department of Labor on the division of occupational diseases for the State of Massachusetts back in 1941 and '42. Q. During the Fifties, how often did you NELL MC CALLUM ft ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX- 146 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 visit there? A. Two or three times in the ten years of the 1950's. Q. Two or three times per year or two or three years? A. Two or three times during the decade. Q. Total? A. Total, uh-huh. Q. So once every three or four years? A. On the average, yes. Q. Besides those refineries that we have just been referring to, which are the Baytown, Bayway, Baton Rouge, Bayon, Baltimore, and Everett, before 1960, did you ever visit anyone else's refinery, no matter what company it is? MS. KYLE: Even in the whole world? MR. HAND: Yes. A. I was invited to come to the Gulf refinery over in Port Arthur, and I visited them. Then the Standard of Indiana, who is now Emco, had a plant in Texas City. I visited them in Texas City. I visited the Shell refinery at Deer Park and the Sinclair refinery in Pasadena, the Phillips refinery in Bartlesville, Oklahoma. I believe that's all, before 1960. NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003611 147 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. (By Mr. Hand) Where is Deer Park? A. Deer Park Is a suburb of Houston out on the channel, ship channel. It's -- in Houston, you pass Pasadena; and then there Is Deer Park. guess you travel about 12 to 15 miles. I /` Q. Pasadena is right on the outskirts, here. of Houston? A. Yes. It's adjacent to Houston on the east side. Q. That Port Arthur refinery, that's the one that's now being operated by Chevron? ' A. It is. MS. KYLE: You have about five more minutes. Q. (By Mr. Hand) Did you visit any of those i.- 1 refineries operated by other companies -- and I mean companies other than Standard Oil or Humble -- f { more than once during the 1950's? A. I don't recall that I visited them, with J one exception: I think the Standard-Indiana down at Texas City, I believe I was there two or three times during that ten-year period; but not other j J than that, I don't recall. Q. Did you ever have industrial hygienists or safety people from other companies -- and I mean -r \ Ii .1 :j* J NELL MC CALLUM A ASSOCIATES, INC. i EXX-MOR-003612  148 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 other than Standard Oil-New Jersey or Humble - visiting the Baytown refinery? A. Yes, I did. Uh-huh. Q. And between when you started working for Humble in I960, about how often did that occur? A. 1947. Q. Between 1947 and I960, about how often did you have an industrial hygienist or safety person from another company, other than Humble or Standard Oil in New Jersey, visit the Baytown refinery? A. Five or six per year would visit with me on the average. Q. What would be the purpose in these people coming to visit the Baytown refinery? A. Different purposes. Sometimes they were getting orientation to coming into the petroleum industry. Other times it was to review programs that we were conducting. Other times it was more or less to see new operations that they maybe were going to install in their refineries -- and we already were operating them -- and how we were handling them. That those were generally the main reasons they would come see us. Q. When these industrial hygienists or safety persons would come visit the Baytown refinery, was NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003613 149 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that to familiarize themselves with the type of industrial hygiene and safety programs you had in effect at the Baytown refinery? A. It was. Q. And why is it that you would go visit these refineries operated by other companies? A. I would go because they invited me to some technical meeting or review that they were holding. Mainly on that professional meeting type cases, I would go. MS. KYLE: Okay. I think we have done four hours for the day. MR. HAND: It's entirely up to you. Whenever Professor Hammond feels he is tired and can't go on. THE WITNESS: I am not that way. I am not going to go by that criteria. MR. HAND: That's the most important thing. THE WITNESS: It's important; but on the other hand, I am still going to leave when I still feel fine. MR. KAZAN: We don't want to run you into the ground. MS. KYLE: Now, do you want to take a ,> \ i ) 1 t NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. *1 EXX-MOR-003614 150 1 break -- I will be out there in just a minute as to 2 when to start this thing. 3 4 (OFF-THE-RECORD DISCUSSION) 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NELL NIC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003615 151 1 THE STATE OF TEXAS: 2 COUNTY OF HARRIS 3 4 I, JAMES HAMMOND hereby certify that I 5 have read the foregoing transcript of Volume I of 6 my testimony given in the foregoing numbered and 7 styled case and that same is true and correct to 8 the best of my knowledge and belief. 9 I further certify that any and all 10 corrections have been made on a separate page and 11 initialed by me. 12 This _day of# 1992. 13 14 15 16 JAMES HAMMOND 17 18 SWORN TO AND SUBSCRIBED BEFORE ME this 19 day of, 19 92. 20 21 22 NOTARY PUBLIC 23 24 MY COMMISSION 25 EXPIRES: NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003616 152 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 THE STATE OF TEXAS: COUNTY OF HARRIS: I, Marie Bulfinch, a Certified Shorthand Reporter, hereby certify that the foregoing testimony was given before me after the Witness had been first duly sworn. I further certify that this deposition was prepared under my direction and that the foregoing pages constitute a complete and correct copy of the transcript of the proceedings, and that the original is being given to James L. Hand. I further certify that I am neither attorney for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to the lawsuit in which this deposition was taken. Further, I am neither related to nor employed by any attorney of record in this cause, nor do I have a financial interest in the matter. GIVEN UNDER MY HAND AND SEAL OF OFFICE in Houston, Texas, on this the ?(3 day of May, 1992. Mar. ... CM Certification Number Date of Expiration Business Address 3748 December 31, 1993 Nell McCallum & Associates 2900 Smith Street Houston, Texas 77006 NELL MC CALLUM & ASSOCIATES, INC. EXX-MOR-003617