Document 1Qyn02OgzyZmLQN9vOqJNzLra

mCC 'SOtft. Monsanto mo**(namcaiocation) J. Arnold Glass, LF&S, Texas City May 11, 1982 SUtJtCT STOP PROGRAM AT QUEENY PLANT mmwnci TO Telephone Conversation with T. D. Filiput, Safety Superintendent : G. W. Daues 0-5 0-22 cc G. L. Tromblee D. E. Kaldenberg D. D. Kos M. A. Riddle PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBIT 0-10 0-7 0-11 0-22 JAG: Okay Tom, how about telling us a little bit about your experiences with using the STOP Program at the Queeny plant? TDF: Okay, this was probably the major thing that we started in 1976 which, one of four things, but probably the major thing that essentially led to a reduction down to about half the level of total injuries in the plant. We have found a significant participation of hourly and salaried people in the plant. Primarily salaried people, most of which have a STOP card quota of four per month, one per week, STOP cards built into their JRA's. We generally have a STOP card contest once per year as an extra motiva tional device for our hourly people. We also build generally one monthly safety program into the STOP and usually the safety log book programs here at the plant. It is a significantly effective program. We have a monthly report that we distribute to the general superintendents and it Indicates the total number of STOP cards which are being turned in by the total group. Each month the general superintendents will make a STOP card sum mary report by the various categories on the STOP card (personal protec tive equipment, positions, of people, actions of people, etc.) they will take those five categories and classify their cards into those categories; the hourly by salaried, and by those five categories. They send that copy to the Safety Department, so we maintain a record on that. We put out quarterly a summary of the total plant. How personal protective equipment and positions of people changes if there is any change in percentage in the various classes as well as the total which is something we put out monthly, the total number of STOP cards. Our plant right-now is about a little less than 1300 people and going down fast. We normally have around 900 STOP cards per month generated. JAG: Are the hourly Involved in making the observations as well? TDF: Oh, yes. We have two different kinds of STOP cards. The card is essen tially the same except for the top steps: decide, stop, observe, act, and report on the salaried card, while the things are slightly different on the hourly card. JAG: Are they different colors or something? TDF: Yes, they're different colors, one is yellow vs. the other, green, but that's not necessary to make that differentiation. Because everything else is the same. JAG: What would you say are the major pitfalls in Implementing the program? <-AJV/003325 SC 002120 2 TDF: The major pitfall is this is a program which is meant for unsafe acts. It's meant for a one to one contact after the observation is made. The program is not really geared for feedback; however, the hourly employee is going to use this device like he should use a safety log book, like a bearing is making an unusual noise and he puts that down in the safety log book for checking into an repair as required, but he's liable to make a STOP card out on that. Okay? JAG: I see. In other words, hourly are rather inclined to want to fix things as distinguished between stop unsafe acts. TDF: And what they want then is feedback. Now with the safety log book, is a book where someone looks at it every day, every other day, and he makes a comment. So unsafe conditions are put on these cards as well and the hourly employees want feedback. Now the safety leg book that we just discussed, is designed for feedback. The STOP system is not, which means that the hourly employees unless they get feedback are going to be disenchanted. So therefore, our plant has gone through tremendous dif ficulty and effort, and it varies from general superintendent group to general superintendent group what method they have chosen to provide feed back to their people on the STOP cards that the people put in. That is a big, big, big, problem with STOP. JAG: What about the field observations? Do you feel like you're getting good ones, or do you think that they are penciled in? TDF: No, I think they're all good ones. As a matter of fact, they're very worthwhile. There was a time in our plant where there was "pret-near" one general superintendent in the Safety Department and that was all who would talk to people who were doing something not right. The fact is, let's say people didn't wear hard hats or they didn't wear their glasses much. The fact is, although that was moving in the right direction anyway, the STOP program out there got 1300 observers rather than 4. What _a tremendous difference. JAG: Would you talk about the pitfalls about the response of it being punitive? Did you have any initial response? __ TDF: There was initial comments relative to that. Unlike the DuPont people who number one, they put a name on the STOP card, but then they give that STOP card to that person and you know that person has just been caught doing something that he knows he shouldn't do anyway. You know what he's going to do with that STOP card? He's going to "can" it. So putting the name on there I think has no significance whatsoever in the way that DuPont handles it. But we don't use names. We simply do not use names and the STOP cards go all through the system. Up to the general superintendent for recording, and eventually after the general superintendents look at them then I get them and we may use them from time to time. So it is not at all a punitive thing. JAG: Since the names are left off the cards. sc 002121 LAM003326 3 TDF: Yes. JAG: What about the card handling? Did you find resistance to the use of cards? TDF: No. People always want cards. It would be nice if they would use them just for STOP cards. They also tend to use them a little bit for note paper. So I supply a lot more cards than I get STOP cards back. People always want a card in their pocket. Hasn't been a problem. JAG: How about the kick off? Did you have the DuPont people there to do the kick off? TDF: No, I think Krummrich did when they \dLcked it off and my understanding is it went over like a lead balloon. -Our kick uff was the Plant Manager went over the various sections, the program's instructions, and the general superintendents go out and help make STOP cards... .. JAG: Did you have an administrator outside' of the Safety Department be in charge of the administration? '* TDF: Right, we did, but you've got to remember that our Safety Department is all engineers, and we basically do engineering consultation work here at the plant. I don't have all of our promotion activities, although we con sult on all of that. All of that is handled by line people. I don't have the organization that you do. In this case, our coordinator was someone in the Training Department JAG: Are there any other key elements that you think I ought to be on the lookout for in order to properly implement it? TDF: I think you asked the right questions. You know the extra things that we do to keep things going happen to be this monthly tabbing _and keeping up on the number of STOP cards that are generated and really the quarterly look at whether personal protective equipment, positions of people, and their percentages are changing, that really doesn't mean anything. The fact is the numbers don't really change statistically. And that's a waste of time, but recording the total numbers is important. It keeps the whole plant pretty well on their toes. As well as the conclusion, I'm afraid it is necessary. It is important if you want it to work. Unfortunately, you cannot put it on the honor system. You've got to put it in the JRA and say, "Now fella, you will turn in one STOP card a week". As a matter of fact, we've had to go so far as to say, "you will not turn in 48 per year, you will turn in 4 per month". So that 4 per month is not 0 this month and 8 next month. TDF: We've been playing with it now for 6 years and we're pretty satisfied. SC 002122 LAM003327 CC U0*30 Monsanto mominamiaiocation) J. Arnold Glass, LP&S, Texas City 0-22 (' SUtJfCT WIHKI May 12, 1982 STOP PROGRAM AT KRUMMRICH PLANT Conversation with Paul Heisler and Jim Pace D. E. Kaldenberg G. L. Tromblee D. D. Kos H. 0. Reid TO Greg Daues 0-5 0-7 0-10 0-11 PER Present at Texas City: Arnold Glass, Greg Daues, Dennis Kos JAG: If you wer: going to talk about the problems that you had, the things that really outstanding in your mind about the pitfalls of the program, I'd appreciate just right off the top of your head what do you think is the biggest pitfall with implementing the STOP program? PH: There are so many places where the ball can be dropped. You have to be watchful for that. o The first place is in the actual administration of the units. You have to make sure the people know exactly what is involved when you start Unit 1. o The next place it can be dropped is when the immediate supervisor of c that person is supposed to go over that Unit 1 with him. o The third place it can be dropped is when the supervisor goes out in the plant to do a STOP card on that particular subject. So the administrator has to watch those particular points to make sure that that function is being carried out, and then they'll be ready for the next unit. After about the third unit it's pretty smooth. JAG: For preparation of the people in the field who are being observed, what do they need? Take the hourly guy who's out there in the field, he sees these observers coming around. What do you do to prepare him for the STOP program? PH: First we had a meeting of everybody in the plant explaining why we are trying to make a step change to improve safety in the plant. At that par ticular meeting, we had the man from DuPont here. He's quite expensive, and I don't think he's necessary, but you have to have somebody to explain the necessity for improvement. Even though it may be obvious to everybody since you've been having some experiences that nobody likes. Second, we went to our union committee to explain what the program is. Third, the Union had some questions about the use of discipline. We took the position that STOP observations would never be used for discipline. On the other hand, we had to take the position that people can be disciplined for working unsafely by their Immediate boss, but we were not c LAM003328 SC 002123 2 working coward using observations to build up a backlog of items against an individual for time off or discharge. Fourth, we got three elected union safety committeemen involved in the program. We got them involved in several ways: 1. We put them through all eight sessions with the Plant Manager's Staff on a three week staggered basis. 2. We put our plant safety committee people in with the Plant Manager's Staff in the front end with the first week at all times. We did the whole program in 24 weeks. The Plant Manager, the higher level people get it the first week, and then on down the hierarchy the second and third weeks. Now, that meant that the Plant Manager's Staff would be always in front, they would be in session 2 the fourth week and in the fifth week the second group of people would be in session 2. You understand that it takes 24 weeks to.do 8 sessions. Furthermore, we reviewed all cards and sorted them and reported back the Plant Manager. Initially we did it at a weekly basis, later we dropped to a once a month basis because it was just as effective. We classified them by cards, not by person, or area, but like this area wore protective equipment properly, or this area will have to wear eye protection, or unsafe acts, etc., etc. So they classify these every week and once a month this report goes out. The other thing we did, as the STOP cards came from the foremen to the supervisor to the superintendent, then they're turned in to the Safety office. All STOP cards are supposed to clear across the general superintendent's desk so he has some idea that his people are actually making these observations. The fifth thing we decided, we didn't want to start a quota. We asked people to make observations and we saw a significant change in some areas. I would think if I go out in the plant and find nothing wrong, I record it as finding no violations. I would look for things like violations of our plant safety rules, failure to block rail cars, that type of thing. We find less and less of this. So you have impact. We finally got done with the salaried people we had told the union people in advance that we were going to start a program with the union people, and we did. We've just finished three units. We had a lot of hassle with the union about signing them. We compromised by cutting the names off the cards that the hourly would be using. They don't sign them. JP: Each zone counts their cards and they send us a complimentary summary and their running about a third of what the salaried people would be writing as far as the number of cards. PH: In other words with 800 people theoretically out there signing cards, we're only getting... How many cards a montH' are we getting from the hourly people? sc 002124 LAM003329 3 r JP: This is the first month I've actually started totaling them. I've had 2 weeks worth now and they're about a third the salaried rate. I've got about 100 cards from salaried and about 30 from hourly. JAG: In regard to the hourly group when you went to them, did you find that your observations were more likely to be from about unsafe conditions as opposed to unsafe acts? PH: No. We used the DuPont material and it flat out says that you should correct by people. The hourly material is just like the salaried material except it's more compact and not as expensive, one might say. JAG: Are you getting cards back that say "such and such ought to be fixed" or something like that? PH: No. I would say practically none of what I've seen. We stole your safety suggestion log book idea, and that's become a pretty reasonable working tool in this plant in the last five years, and that accumulated those type of comments and suggestions pretty exclusively. GD: What do you do about absenteeism? People who don't make meetings? PH: We give their material to their boss and have him give it to them to be sure that it gets done, and then we feed it back to the administrator. GD: When they return with their test results, you record that they've had the session then later? PH: We set this thing up for all of the salaried people and all the exempt people, and a person could be gone for 4 weeks on vacation. When they came back, we would have them do 2 and then the next three week period they'd get back on the schedule. They'd do session 3 and session 4. GD: That's the schedule they have in the administrator's guide I think. PH: Yes, we went right down DuPont's schedule. We didn't want to improvise at all. Anybody will give you a different opinion. I know the Queeny plant for example, used STOP cards as a measurement of safety performance of the foremen. We did not do that. DuPont doesn't do it. GD: With regard to your levels, on that administrative guide there's a chart that has different levels A, B, C, D, and E, and in group B, it says, "Plant Managers, Assistant Plant Managers, Production Superintendents". Does that mean General Superintendents and Plant Manager? PH: That's what we did, yes. JP: Plant Manager and Staff. PH: Before you came into the conversation, Greg, I said that we worked from the top of the pyramid to the bottom, and we sliced it three ways; the top t ( SC 002125 LAM003330 4 and we include our union people in the top of the pyramid--they were in the first week. The second week came the supervisors, and the third week came the foremen. GD: Now, the union program is what, three units? JP: Yes, but we put our plant safety committee people through the 8 unit session. GD: Did they immediately then carry on with their people? PH: You buy it from DuPont. GD: Your hourly safety committeemen really took the 8? PH: They took the 8, and they've been in it from day one looking for cards that we get every week. - GD: Oh, and then they look at the cards? i PH: Yes, Jim Pace, my safety supervisor, and the three safety committeemen go through these cards and sort out and categorize the information we're getting from them. The number of people participating, number of cards, categories, unsafe acts, etc., etc., etc. How many categories have you got, Jim? About 10 haven't you? JP: Ue separated them by the categories that are on the back of your Stop Unsafe Acts card: personal protective equipment, positions of people, actions of people, tools and equipment, and procedures and orderliness. Then there are subcategories in each one of those and we broke those down and we just reported the number of cards that were in each one. JAG: Ue understand. - PH: We took the non-exempt salaried people through the three sessions with the hourly people after the 24 sessions. . GD: Oh, that came for the non-exempts they came after the... PH: The non-exempts, like my secretary, went through it. JAG: Then the non-supervisory personnel. PH: The head nurse went through the 8 sessions and the others went through the three, isn't that right, Jim? JP: Yes, when you get towards the bottom you're going to have to be arbitrary on how you do it. Some secretaries got the 8 weeks, some secretaries got the 3 weeks. JAG: Okay, now a question in regard to technical people working in the field, like a TDS engineer who normally works in thfi* office, is he required to go SC 002126 LAM003331 5 out in the field and make observations and turn in a certain number of cards? PH: He's required to go out in the field, but he's not required to turn in a certain number of cards. Everybody makes observations. If they don't see any violations, unsafe act, or whatsoever, they should record on a card, "1 was out on such and such a date for such and such length of time and saw nothing that required a STOP card to be prepared". We keep track of how many of those we get. JP: We get about 10 of those a week. PH: Everybody is required to use it. Now, we can't force the hourly people to do it. We have not forced the hourly people to do it. We try to encourage them, but it was mandatory as a condition of employment for the salaried people. For me to say that everybody's doing it is not right. DK: You have three union committeemen for safety? PH: i DK: Yes. Are they full-time? PH: They're full-time union workers. They work on their full-time jobs, they spend, I'd say, 20Z of their time on safety matters in this plant. \ JP: To give you an example of what I've got them doing this week, I've got them all day today on ladder inspections, Friday, we have our planning meeting which is about an hour, and then they have hazard inspections, all three of them with general superintendents. PH: And they participate in investigations of any major incident, even some near misses, and they help us screen films occasionally, and I think one is an EMT. I'd say they are not full-time in the sense that a union labor relations people sit on their "behind" and grieve all the time. They actually don't ever go into their job, but union safety committee people are a different breed of cats. JAG: They are relieved from their responsibilities for periods of particular events such as meetings, or reviews, or investigations, or whatever. PH: Right. We have no control over who's elected, we wish we did. We'd rather have a cross-section, but we tend to get maintenance type people on this safety committee. We've got no way of changing that. We wish we could, but most all of them have a pretty good knowledge of what's going on in the plant. Jim sends a schedule of every week to the bosses, those things he knows that are going to be happening in the following weeks. To make it easier on the bosses by knowing when they will be away from their jobs. I feel a third of the assignments that come up, they are called upon because we can't anticipate that they are going to happen next week. L/\W1003332 SC 002127 6 GD: Our Hourly Safety Committee has more than three on it, does yours? PH: No, that's all we've got. JAG: Ue have 8. PH: Well, you'll have to decide what to do about them. GD: I think that's too many, maybe, to be put in with Plant Manager's Staff. PH: I don't know. I've never had more than 3. Are they elected? JAG: Yes. PH: What term are they elected for? JAG: One year. PH: Are they staggered? JAG: Yes, they overlap every six months. PH: I see, well I think ours is a little better system, but once again that's a negotiated thing, it's set up with a signed agreement in our plant. JAG: Ours is not negotiated. PH: Well, ours is part of the contract, it defines what the job duties are. GD: I think yours is a little bit different slant, ours is more voluntary and certainly never been on the negotiating table, and never will be if we have anything to do with it. PH: Well, let me tell you what we have and... There are three of them for three years and one is elected every year. PH: I think it's imperative that you get the union people involved and not resisting as best you can to achieve the optimum results of the program. GD: The program as I'm gathering, requires paramount of record keeping. PH: Yes, we have a full-time minister just about, or a girl... GD: Can you give me an estimate about how much of his and her time is used? JP: When they first started out, she was full-time on I'd say for about the first two sessions or two units. PH: Just getting people scheduled, and set up. You've seen the material, I hope. SC 002128 LAM003333 7 JAG: Tes. PH: It's relatively simple. It's Programed Instruction (P.I.). You might say it's an honor system, let's use that expression. What we do is we set up meetings of about 20 people and you may have a great number of meetings in any particular week. We have lessened it for the Plant Manager's Staff. The administrator explains the purpose in the beginning, sort of holds your hand, then he collects the booklets and grades them. They have to be graded. There's a test at the back in each booklet. Some people think the booklet is "Mickey Mouse", but regardless of whether it is or "ain't", the point is that it does make impact on people and that's what I think they're after. Like I told Arnold earlier, I think if you brought the Dallas Cowboys in there to practice on your lawn and give safety lectures, it would have impact as long as you kept it up, because it's a change of pace. The DuPont people have kept this program alive to the best of my knowledge at all DuPont locations for many, many years. They believe in it and some people at Monsanto do, some people do not, but we have had better performance whether due to that or the position of the sun and the planets, I don't know. GD: What about new people that come in? You've got the program, you're in your eighteenth week and you've got three new people coming in. How do you handle that? JP: Okay, I was waiting for that question to come up. Any new people that come in from now on in the plant or even during the program... because the material is Programed Instructions, it's not that hard to administer. We let the Immediate supervisor administer it, but the grading comes down to the Safety Department now. The administrator does not get Involved any more. I have all the answer books, they throw them in the mail, I grade them, send it back to that supervisor, and then he'll go through the pro cedure of discussing the material and going out in the field with him. PH: In other words you take it over for the administrator after about the eighth month of the program. That right, Jim? - JP: Right, and the new hourly people, we give them the first unit training and It's up to their foreman or wherever they go to finish the other two units. GD: The fact that they have to send them in and get graded and then recorded, you keep records. That gets it done, I suppose. JP: No, we don't keep records. It's up to the immediate supervisor to make sure that his people get it. PH: Do we keep any record of the material that comes back down to us that it has been done? JP: No, just -grade them. sc 002129 LAM003334 8 GD: You don't keep records on them. Do you keep records on attendance? JP: At the beginning, yes, but as a new person comes in it is the respon sibility of that supervisor to make sure his man gets STOP, and all we do is grade them. GD: At the stage we're in, we kick this thing off in a week or so, you'd keep good records on everyone for a month or two? JP: Yes, we kept them for half a year. He had to because he had to know where they were at and how to schedule them as far as the sessions because these were large group sessions. The Plant Manager and his Staff was probably the smallest one and the rest were about 20 at a time. JAG: In summary what would you say are the biggest pitfalls that we've got to watch out for? JP: I think what I said at the beginning, that you have to follow-up because there are places where the ball could be dropped and the administrator has to make sure that those supervisors out in the plant are counseling with their people as they finish the book, going over questions they might have missed, and making sure they go out in the plant and actually do cards. The follow-up, I think would be the biggest pitfall. If that is not done, the program will fail. PH: And another thing is the top level people have to participate the program as an ongoing routine, and not just a campaign at the beginning because I think that's true for any program... You have to worry about continuity. J. Arnold Glass es sc 0213o LAM003335